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CC 2004 10 11 CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING OCTOBER 11, 2004 Mayor Furlong called the meeting to order at 7:05 p.m. The meeting was opened with the Pledge to the Flag. COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT: Mayor Furlong, Councilman Ayotte, Councilman Lundquist and Councilman Labatt COUNCIL MEMBERS ABSENT: Councilman Peterson STAFF PRESENT: Todd Gerhardt, Justin Miller, Kate Aanenson, Todd Hoffman, Paul Oehme, Lori Haak, and Roger Knutson PUBLIC PRESENT FOR ALL ITEMS: Janet Paulsen Rich Slagle Mike Syverson Courtney Eck Amber Oahs Justin Hagen Ross McMeen 7305 Laredo Drive Planning Commission 760 Preakness Lane 2510 Bridle Creek Trail 8000 Erie Avenue Chaska 9391 F oxford Road Mayor Furlong: Very good and welcome to everybody here this evening and those watching at home. We appreciate you joining us. There's one requested addition to the agenda this evening. We'll call it item 1.6. Pick it up right after visitor presentations. That is an update from our police and fire departments with regard to the President's visit this last weekend. So without objection we'll bring it in there. Are there any other changes to the agenda? If not, we'll approve the agenda as published without objection. So ordered. PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: None. CONSENT AGENDA: Councilman Lundquist moved, Councilman Ayotte seconded to approve the following consent agenda items pursuant to the City Manager's recommendations: a. Approval of Minutes: -City Council Work Session Minutes dated September 13, 2004 -City Council Summary and Verbatim Minutes dated September 13, 2004 -City Council Work Session Minutes dated September 27,2004 -City Council Summary and Verbatim Minutes dated September 27,2004 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 Receive Commission Minutes: -Planning Commission Summary Minutes dated September 21,2004 b. Resolution #2004-72: Approve Resolution Amending the 2004 MSA Improvement Project Assessment Roll, Project 04-02. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to O. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: Mary Herschberger- Thun: Good evening. Mayor Furlong: Good evening. Mary Herschberger- Thun: My name is Mary Herschberger- Thun. I happen to be a Victoria City Councilwoman too so thank you for letting me address you. Thank you Mr. Mayor and all the council members. Mayor Furlong: Certainly. Mary Herschberger - Thun: I'm here in another role this evening. I'm here as a representative of the Community Education District 112 Community Education. As you know we have a large district education program here in our county. On Thursday, October 14th, what they are doing is they are having four different meetings in four different locations to discuss community education and what we'd like to see in our communities. You will be having one here in your library in the Longfellow Room from 6:30 to 7:30 and it will be only one hour because the Council is getting together later to discuss what we learn from everybody's input. The purpose of the meeting is to find out what you feel we should be offering in the area as far as community education. We're also looking for different people who would like to teach courses and be involved in community education. If you're somewhere else and you'd rather attend a session in Carver or in Chaska or in Victoria, all three of those sessions will also be held between 6:30 and 7:30. Each session will also have a board member, a school board member attending, plus a facilitator so the reason I'm here tonight is to encourage all of you to attend. I've also brought a couple posters that mayor may not already be posted in your library, plus some personal invitations about community education. And with that I'll let you get on with the rest of your meeting unless there are other questions. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any questions at all? Mary Herschberger- Thun: Thank you very much. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Councilman Ayotte: Thanks a lot. 2 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 Judy Schmieg: Mayor, did you say now is the time to speak? Mayor Furlong: Yes ma' am. Judy Schmieg: On an issue that will come up later. Mayor Furlong: No, now would be the time to come forward. And that way we can be sure to address your issue when we get to that point on our agenda. So if you'd like to come forward now. Judy Schmieg: My name is Judy Schmieg. I live at 200 West tih Street and for the new business, I just wanted to take this opportunity to ask the council to not to sell the parcel ofland at the Goddard School plot. That it's very important, we've done a lot of work and I understand that this property has not been sold. We were told at the Planning Commission, is that correct? This property has not been sold. Mayor Furlong: I believe we have signed a purchase agreement, have we not? That was conditioned upon site plan approval and other conditions that are typical. Judy Schmieg: Justin, I believe it was you that told us at the Planning Commission this land was not sold. That this is still our land. Justin Miller: The property has not been sold. Title still holds with the City of Chanhassen. They have a purchase agreement so it's just like if you have a purchase agreement with a house. Judy Schmieg: But can you back out of that? Justin Miller: I'd have to refer to the City Attorney for that. Roger Knutson: Mayor, there are a number of contingencies that have to be satisfied in the purchase agreement, but if they're satisfied we've obligated to sell the property for the agreed price. Judy Schmieg: So if this property was condemned, can they just go out and sell it without offering it back to the original owners? Roger Knutson: Yes. Judy Schmieg: Okay. So once it's condemned, that doesn't make any difference. They can condemn it and resell it. Roger Knutson: That's correct. Judy Schmieg: Okay. Because I had heard different but I'll check that out later. The other thing then is what you're telling us is you sold our land without asking us or even 3 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 giving us an opportunity to do anything about it when it's a very important piece of property. It was told to us that it would be a park. It would stay as a historical district and I think the Planning Commission asked the staff to look for where we would get that idea that it was a park and stuff, and what did you find? Justin Miller: We did check. We did not find any records of any City Council action saying that it would remain a park or a historical area. Judy Schmieg: So you didn't find anything Kathryn? Oh, okay. Well I found something even though it was like 2 days. This kind of thing, it was talked about building on the history and about the, the Chanhassen historical town, how St. Hubert's Catholic Church, Cemetery for the nucleus representing 19th century, blah, blah, blah. It will be a park. That is one thing and I can show you that later. And then there was also work done. It says that the actual work on two roads will begin within the next 2 weeks. The city plans to build 22 foot clock tower in Old Town Square. Will also be created between the relocated original city hall building, St. Hubert's church constructed, this is going to be the first of our park. It goes on to state that they're putting in a grand, or a clock. A village clock tower. The location chosen for the clock tower is a pocket park at the east end of the village center. I have like 6 more that I could find. I really feel bad that staff doesn't care enough to at least try to find out why the city residents are so upset about this. We did a lot of work to get there. Mayor Furlong: In could ask you to address the council with your comments rather than staff, thank you. Judy Schmieg: Well, I would like you to let the staff know that the city residents, it's kind of disappointing that you really care. And again, as representatives of the people, why are there 160 signatures in 2 days when we hear about it that all of a sudden you have sold the land and 160 people don't know anything about it and don't want it sold. Not to mention there are more than 160 people that don't want it sold. That's a 2 day thing. And we worked so hard to keep it as a historical district and by putting in a black top roof you know, shingled black wood shingles to, the whole center that covers up the church and you don't have to worry about seeing so much roof line because the trees will cover everything up. That was not the intent of that piece of property. And we did buy that property. We paid for it. Why you're selling it for $600,000 when I think the council just sold 4 1Iz acres, which is 4 times that land for a million, I mean it can't be financial because it doesn't seem like you put a lot of thought into you know where the money was going to. But this piece of property is important to a lot of people and to the town in the long term. Not the short term but the long term. And we've been trying to find out how do you keep it. How, we're the residents. We own it. You're the representatives. Why is this working so poorly? That the communication when all of a sudden it's sold and got a project. You know and it's got a purchase order and we have no say about our little piece of property. That's the only piece of historical property and someone mentioned there could be a pioneer monument or sculpture or something. It is nice to have a little park with a bench or whatever. That was the purpose of this sidewalk and that connecting, and I would like to know how I can get that little piece of property to stay in 4 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 the community of Chanhassen and not have a daycare or anything else on this little piece of property that technically belongs to the citizens ofChanhassen. So I'm going to ask you, you just tell me what it would take to keep this piece of property. Mayor Furlong: I don't know that I have that answer right now. In terms of the process, I know this council has been looking at that property, I'm trying to remember when the Grill and Chill, Chill and Grill first came forward. I think that was early 2003. Timeframe, first quarter 2003. Todd Gerhardt: About 2 years ago. Mayor Furlong: Was it? You know not having the advantage of the articles that, or whatever you're referring to ma'am, again I think the EDA as an economic development authority. Judy Schmieg: Which is the council. Mayor Furlong: That is the council. That always hasn't been that way but that is the way it is now. And it acquired that land when? Maybe Mr. Gerhardt, could you give us some history on this. Todd Gerhardt: Sure. We purchased what we called the Pony/Pauly/Pryzmus site in probably the early 1990's and the intent was to try to redevelop the area. We brought two development proposals back to the City Council. I believe one was a retail development with housing. That was denied. And then the Grill and Chill was the last, and that was denied. We believe that the daycare is a better use for this area. It's not retail oriented that would create a lot of traffic. You would see traffic probably early morning and later in the afternoon, and probably none on the weekends. So the intent was always to try to create more activity on that end of town. Judy Schmieg: That surprises me because you are quoted in here too that just another piece I'll pull up because there's tons of it around if you look for it. History, you know in downtown kind of thing. Heritage Square which covers the old village hall stands as a symbol of the City ofChanhassen's history. City officials and planners see the area where St. Hubert's is a rice resource and have it planned as a historical section of town. We have been told over and over that this would not, if you for 2 years have been looking at Dairy Queen's or daycares or whatever you've been looking at for 2 years, it seems to me you had an obligation to say to the people we're taking away this piece of property from you. And that just would be from a common, you're representatives of the people. Why is it the people did not know for 2 years and until we found out that there's approval on the daycare. Todd Gerhardt: There's never, Mr. Mayor, there's never been a plan for a park. The articles that you're referring to are the articles which are Heritage Square Park, pocket park that's there right now. It's the brick pavers with the trees inbetween St. Hubert's and old village hall. There's detail plans in our engineering office. It was a part of the 5 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 downtown redevelopment. There were limestone pavers put in there that you could etch individual's names in those with exposed aggregate outlining those areas. And landscaping beds on both the south and the west side of the Heritage Square park. That's what those articles were talking about. When we purchased the buildings, we came in. We demo'd them right away so we didn't have activity with the youth or whoever may get in there and do vandalism that we experienced at the bowling alley property for the year and a half that we owned that. So there was no rush in doing the redevelopment. Like I said, we brought two development proposals back. It did have resistance from the neighborhood on those. I won't you know hide the fact. They're in the minutes. But at this point staff recommended that a daycare could fit into this area with the parochial school across the street, St. Hubert's, the old village hall. It kind of blended in with the development and that was our discussion at the EDA level. Judy Schmieg: I would like to comment on your development level and stuff when that Pauly complex was brought in here, I guess they called it the Pryzmus or whatever but when that was purchased, the roads, 101 at that time was not going through there, or Great Plains Boulevard excuse me, was not going to be going through there because all the plans and everything would show it, that was one of the original. The road went through and the clock was set up and stuff and that stayed historical district and it didn't have to be approved as a park that the park department had to take it over because it wasn't big enough. And it wasn't going to have any required... and a bench, and that was the extent of the park so there was no need to go to the council and have a park take over that piece of property as a park. But like it was called a pocket park, like you mentioned, that is everybody assumed, not assumed. Knew from all the articles and told over and over that that is a historical district and that will remain that way. Now, my problem is up to this point all of a sudden here we are and I need to know how, what we can do to keep that park. That piece of property belongs to the citizens and they have worked very hard through all of these developments that you've done, that we were at one time going to have a new building... swimming pool. Another community center... Todd Gerhardt: No, I remember. Judy Schmieg: It was in the paper.. . Todd Gerhardt: I lived through it. Judy Schmieg: So other than that development...I care a lot about having that history in this town that worked hard, a lot of people to do that and these must be something where we can do. . . to maintain our piece of property. Councilman Lundquist: From a, just from a council and EDA perspective, we do appreciate your passion and, or I appreciate your passion in that. However, you have a lot of articles and things from the past but these proposals have been out there as well. The Goddard School has been in front of us, the councilor EDA at least 2 or 3 times. They're published, everything's published in the newspaper. The plans have been published in the newspaper prior to the EDA meetings. 6 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 Judy Schmieg: Can we speak at an EDA meeting? They told me that that is, EDA was not the public forum. Like I tried to attend the EDA meeting. Councilman Lundquist: EDA meetings are open to the public. Judy Schmieg: Can you speak at them and have an opinion to decide what to do? Mayor Furlong: Yes. Judy Schmieg: So everybody could have come to the EDA meeting. I went through the papers for the last, I think 3 or 4 months, 5 months maybe. I went through every single paper looking for anything that had that Goddard on it and did find ED A was, there was a proposal, a Dairy Queen I think or something else but as far as knowing that you were going to sell our piece ofland, I didn't see anything that said people, we're thinking about selling that and turning it into retail. Justin Miller: Mr. Mayor? Mayor Furlong: Mr. Miller. Justin Miller: April 14th, Wednesday, April 14th I'm looking, 2004, Chanhassen Villager. Title of the article, Development Proposal for Historical Downtown Site. It outlines the Dunn Brothers coffee shop as well as the Goddard School. Thursday, August 26th. Judy Schmieg: I got that. Now from April to August, so what do we think happened inbetween there. Did you... what happened. Justin Miller: Yes, I'll tell you what happened. In April there was a meeting. Judy Schmieg: No, I mean the public. Did you put that in a newspaper that the public knew what happened April 14th. I mean did we know. I really wait until I thought was, is how the procedure works. You are representatives of us. Mayor Furlong: Absolutely. Absolutely ma'am, and I think at the, and correct me ifI'm wrong Mr. Miller. At the April EDA meeting, that's when the EDA or the council sitting as the EDA was first presented with this as a concept. You know to sell city owned property to the Goddard School and at that time they were looking at both Goddard and Dunn Brothers. That's changed. Dunn Brothers is out of this proposal. As a concept and as an EDA did we think that it was worthwhile for the staff to continue to discuss and negotiate the sale of that property with individuals that are building the Goddard School. So what transpired between April at that meeting when it was first proposed to us, and our August meeting is that the staff and the private parties were looking at negotiating. They were working with our planning staff to look at possible site plans and those types of things so that's what was transpiring during that time. 7 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 Judy Schmieg: ... any importance or responsibility to the citizens with big letters to say we're going to sell that piece of property people. Nobody felt any responsibility to let the people know. Now EDA is not usually open meetings, and again maybe the new ones... Mayor Furlong: Oh, quite the contrary. They're an open meeting, absolutely. That's why they're published. You know I think ma'am the issue too is that there's a legal requirement for public notice and Mr. Attorney, correct me if I'm wrong, okay. And then there are other things that can be done. One example is I believe for, and correct me if I'm wrong here, on a public hearing we're required to notify residents within 300 feet. As a city we extend that voluntarily to 500 feet, so there are ways that we can do that. The issue here is, while there's public notice, we also benefit from and rely upon the Chanhassen Villager, our local newspaper to sit in and report upon the actions that we're considering and looking at. Okay? And that's where we get some articles and that's usually where we get phone calls. Judy Schmieg: Yeah, I never found an EDA meeting update in the Villager or. Mayor Furlong: I think what I was referring to ma'am was that after our April EDA meeting, is that when that first article was written Mr. Miller? Justin Miller: Yes sir. Mayor Furlong: Yeah, that's one way to let people know. Judy Schmieg: ... anything until August, what did you say, the 14th or something? Okay, now let me focus back. I need to know what can we do and it's not just me. I mean I have the 160 signatures for you and we can get you 500 but we need to know what it is to keep our land open on that piece, on that corner. Mayor Furlong: Well I don't know that I have an answer for you. I heard the attorney say we've entered into a purchase agreement which has multiple contingencies in it, correct? Roger Knutson: That's correct Mayor. Mayor Furlong: You know. If you want, I don't know if you can address her answer. Roger Knutson: What you can do is express your opinion to the council but they've already signed a purchase agreement and if those contingencies are satisfied, we are legally obligated to sell the land. Councilman Ayotte: I'm going to, I'm not going to hold back. I've got to add something. We have not put anything under a hat. This council and EDA has been forth right the entire time. This is the first time I've seen you at a podium ma' am. And I've been here every other Monday night and I've attended all the EDA meetings, so if you have had a concern or if anyone else has had a concern, minus the e-mail I recently 8 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 received, I have not heard from the community on this point. So I appreciate Brian's polite approach to it, but I'm going tell you I don't appreciate being said that I don't represent the people up here. I've worked darn hard for it and I don't think, in all due respect, that that's a position that I welcome because we have done due diligence. We have, I've talked to the Villager about this particular project. They have put articles in the paper about this particular project. Judy Schmieg: I read the articles in the paper. Councilman Ayotte: Well for you to come here after the fact puts us in a bind. We are legally bound to respond to the people who have offered to buy the property. Judy Schmieg: My problem with you is, it is after the fact. How do you think we feel about it? If there was something at the EDA that that should be, I'm not talking about little stuff. This is a big thing and if you were representing the people you would know the people out there want to keep that piece ofland. So if what you're saying doesn't fit with the actions. Councilman Ayotte: Madam, I've received one e-mail, and it was just this week. Judy Schmieg: And that's because we just heard. That's what we're trying to tell you. We didn't do this because we didn't show up before. We really didn't know. How many people know what an EDA, and they go to all the meetings to find out what the city's doing? EDA's used to be closed. They now are open, and if there's something on the EDA that you want to address you could come and I would guess you guys would listen, but all I'm saying is, if you do represent the people, this would have been a big deal with a lot of articles about the property, selling that piece of land. It could be used for anything. It could be used for a daycare. It could be used for anything as long as it complies with the no restriction requirements... because they weren't ever going to develop it. So then the city setbacks and all of the requirements and every other piece of land in town. How do we stop the sale? Mayor Furlong: Okay, I guess, we made, you keep asking that question. I keep telling you, I don't have an answer for you that. Judy Schmieg: But you have to. Mayor Furlong: No ma'am. Judy Schmieg: But I'm here. Mayor Furlong: Absolutely. Absolutely, and for you to just say that the EDA meetings used to be closed and now they're open. That's a step in the right direction. As Councilman Ayotte said, there wasn't anything hidden here. Was there a delay between when we were working on and responding to requests and when you and some of your neighbors found out about it? Perhaps. I find it difficult to think that any time the EDA 9 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 wants to consider selling a piece of property that the city owns that we're going to have to notify by mail all the residents in the city because. Judy Schmieg: Why? Why can't we know? Mayor Furlong: Well, because, and you said yourself, you said yourself that we represent the citizens. We are a representative democracy. What that means is, is that not everybody will know about everything that's going on all the time, and what we do is try to stay informed as representatives. Listen when people call us and e-mail us, and try to do the best we can representing the citizens. Are we going to do that 100 percent to your's or to anybody else's liking all the time? Absolutely not, and we're going to try to make best decisions as often as we can. In this particular case it looks like you disagree with the decision that the EDA made. How's that for stating the obvious? Okay. The process is an issue and that's something that I was talking to Mr. Gerhardt about today after looking through the packet this weekend about the, you know there was a mis-step here. How do we improve that? We may not be able to do it for this one particular property, but how do we improve it going forward? I mean we need to have. Judy Schmieg: ... public hearing meetings on developing that site. What happened to the public hearing on this item? No. It never happened, did it? Councilman Lundquist: The public hearing for that property occurred at the Planning Commission. Judy Schmieg: There was never a city public hearing. Planning Commission informed us they can't do anything other than. . . abide by the rules. So we waited, when was the public hearing for the city? It didn't happen. Councilman Lundquist: There was an EDA meeting ma'am, and part of the responsibility, as the mayor stated in a democracy is also to keep yourself informed. As the mayor stated. It wouldn't be feasible or prudent for us to mail out to every citizen every time what happens. Articles were in the paper. We had several meetings about this. It's not been a secret and although I feel for your issues, this is something that people should, you know you, I feel like you had plenty of opportunity to be informed. Judy Schmieg: We can't. We didn't know. Councilman Lundquist: Sure, it was in the paper. There was several times and as the mayor stated, you know maybe we have some room for improvement but I would suggest that for all of our residents, you know it's also your responsibility to keep yourself informed to a certain degree on what's going on. Judy Schmieg: I think I do. Justin, have I been up to talk to you? Have I kept informed then with what you did with the bowling alley? Justin Miller: Yes, you did. 10 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 Judy Schmieg: Okay. And have I called Sharmeen? I have. Mayor Furlong: And I think ma'am, and why, it sounds like you're very informed. The bowling alley's probably a good example here in terms of the proposals that came to the EDA and the... ultimately deciding which property, which developer we would sell to and then working with that developer to get it done. The process for the bowling alley was the exact same process used for this property. Judy Schmieg: And that was very poor because people came in with good proposals with Walgreen's and everything, and like you said, if you got informed you could you know like call Justin and find out what was going on. But at the end, the council, the EDA, the HDA, whatever you want to call it, they approved it back to the Bloomberg for the fifteenth time and a million dollars which is what we paid and sat empty because the wall was connected and the property was small. It was not a good process for people to say, do you want a community center in town? Do you want a Walgreen's? Do you want a swimming pool? The people did not have a say about that. I watched everything that went on with that. And that didn't work, so let's not even go to the bowling alley. . . Mayor Furlong: No, but the reason I go to the bowling alley is because the process was the same. Now if you disagree with the outcome. Judy Schmieg: That's different. Mayor Furlong: That is different. Judy Schmieg: There was no meeting... for that bowling alley. Mayor Furlong: Well I think there were. Judy Schmieg: There was nothing.. . Justin you said in August they were going to close in August so hurry up between May and August and do it. Then it didn't close for a year and so. Mayor Furlong: Ma' am, on this particular issue, I understand that and we don't want to go back and re-live everything with the bowling alley, but I use that as an example of the process was the same and if people could get informed and influenced members of the City Council and the EDA between those meetings, that's the time to do it. You ask are people allowed to speak at the EDA. I will tell you right now at EDA meetings people can speak. Judy Schmieg: Okay, then you're saying the forum for future stuff is go to, whenever you see it in the paper that says EDA meeting, then go there and voice your opinion? But the EDA was decided to sign the purchase agreement or whatever already when you got to that meeting, they were ready to sign it. Is there someplace back farther? No. Because it had to be there when they signed the purchase at the EDA meetings. 11 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 Justin Miller: What I'm saying was in April there was a meeting where the council, we provided a concept to the EDA. That concept had a Dunn Brothers coffee shop and a Goddard Learning Center. That was a concept. At that meeting the EDA told staff to pursue further options on that property. They did not sign a purchase agreement. They did not do anything with that property at that time. After that time there was coverage in the media so people should have known that there was a chance there could be development on this site. Between April and August there was plenty of opportunity for people to contact staff. For people to contact their council and say that they did not want this to happen. As far as I know, I did not receive any. Judy Schmieg: When was the purchase agreement signed? Justin Miller: That was in August. Mayor Furlong: After the August meeting. Okay, thank you ma' am. Judy Schmieg: I'll let somebody, if anybody else wants to talk. You haven't answered my question on that. What I can do to stop it because the attorney is saying that it's. Councilman Ayotte: Answer her. There's nothing you can do at this point. Judy Schmieg: Yes there is. Councilman Ayotte: No, there's a purchase agreement that's signed. Judy Schmieg: ... contingencies, right? If they do not comply with the contingencies, then the purchase falls through. Correct? If they do not comply with the contingencies, then the purchase falls through. Then do we have a chance before you sign again or give them another, what is it, year and a half to get the purchase agreement signed? Do we have a chance then? If they don't comply. And maybe they've turned to the developer, you can tell us. Mayor Furlong: Well I think I've told you. I don't have an answer to that question. Well, I like to answer everybody to their satisfaction but I don't have an answer to that question. Judy Schmieg: Give me any kind of an answer. Give me at least some hope. You know I'd settle for. . . Councilman Lundquist: Make an offer to the Goddard School to buy it for more than they have and they might consider selling it to you. Mayor Furlong: Alright, let's move on if we can. 12 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 Judy Schmieg: One other thing. Can we ask the city to buy it back? We're citizens. Even if you don't think it's a good idea and the citizens did, it's our money. Could we buy it back from Goddard? Mayor Furlong: Ma' am, okay. I'd like to keep the meeting moving. Thank you. Dick Mingo: Good evening. My name is Dick Mingo. I live at 7601 Great Plains Boulevard. About 3 short blocks just north of your site that we're talking about here and I'm the gentleman that mailed the e-mail to you folks. I did receive an answer from Mr. Lundquist and Mr. Ayotte. I tried to get back to you about 3 times but I kept getting your answering machine and that's as far as I got, but anyhow. I've lived here for 47 years and I started playing baseball about 4 years prior to that in this town because I knew I was being drafted and come over and played for the old Chanhassen Red Birds because I was a baseball nut and I still am. And I just want to point out that I worked for the Minnesota Twins and have for 15 years and travel all over the upper Midwest putting on baseball clinics and as a result I've covered hundreds of thousands of miles driving through small communities of Minnesota and some of the things that interest me when I pass through a lot of these little town, the little scenic churches they have and some of the little scenic parks they've got in their little communities. I just think that you've got a gem sitting over here. You've got a church that has been registered as a National Historic site. My brother-in-law happened to be the instrumental fellow to have that done, who by the way is a past city attorney for the City of Eden Prairie. In fact his law firm still has that job. And I just can't believe that we want to cover that up. Now I get the answer well, you can still see the steeple. Come on. Leave that thing the way it sits. It's the only green space left in old town Chanhassen. It's a small area. I can't believe the fact that we want to put a building on that thing. You're going to be right up against the sidewalks. The parking is going to be very, very limited, and you say there's plenty of parking spaces but they're going to be dropping the kids off in the morning and according to Goddard School people here at the meeting last Monday, the people must bring their kids into the building and then you must take them out. That means that you're going to have to stop and come in and get the kids. Take them back or whatever. In the meantime be driving around that circle and back on the street. I live on Great Plains Boulevard and I know that the school that we have there, the private school, if you've gone by there, my gosh the traffic there is unbelievable at times. And that's fine, but we don't need more traffic there. And then I also hear this deal about a drive thru coffee shop over in that area. You've got to be goofier than my cousin Hugo to even think about that but that's my belief. So I just think this is a great site. It's kind of the gateway to Chanhassen. People could come into town and see that. You've got the Dinner Theater right across the street, which by the way also has a lot of traffic at times and they have matinees there. So those things should have been taken into consideration. Now I'll ask our attorney, you say there are contingencies. I can't believe you don't have a contingency in there that with the approval of the City Council and everything else that's involved. Isn't there a contingency for that? And that would stop the project. She was asking, how do you stop it? Right there you've got a stop I would think, and I can't believe you don't have a contingency in all of those little papers you sign. 13 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 Judy Schmieg: If that's true, answer him. Dick Mingo: The other thing, that property was condemned. Those were businesses. I get a kick out of you saying you still wanted to add a little life to that end of town. Hell, when Pauly's bar was there, it was the life of the damn community and county. Wayzata was dry. Excelsior was dry. Deephaven was dry. Everybody around came into this town. Even people from Hopkins where they had liquor. It was a great area, but that's gone. And I just, I can't believe that we're going to allow condemn property. Eliminate a business that had been there since 1934. It's still the only business, liquor store that started when prohibition ended. Russ Pauly who took it over, my nephew, wanted to get into the bowling alley and we let some yo-yo over there go for a couple years without paying his liquor bills. Not paying his taxes. And we kind of bumped Russ out of town. Hell, he's married and got 3 young kids. He had to go to Chaska and he's got a very flourishing business down there. He should have been here. In the bowling alley. Paying taxes. Instead we fiddled around and blew that but again that's another story. So I just think that we're being very, very foolish here and we're not looking at what we have here. We've got a nice gem sitting there. And I guess I can't add too much more. The lady ahead of me pretty well was on your case real well but the other thing about the building, the play areas. There's going to be a play area on the east and the west. The one that's on the east side's going to be sitting right on the steps of the church and the old city hall. Boy, isn't that scenic beauty? Isn't that, doesn't that give us an aesthetic value? Playground on this side. We're going to come down the main drag where we could be looking at that nice scenic site and there sites another playground. And by the way, those playgrounds must be the size of a postage stamp. I was a school teacher and a coach for 30 years and I can't believe you're to, I know they're going to be little peanuts in there but boy they'd better be real small because those sure are small areas. So you guys might have done your homework, and by the way, I guess I'm another yo-yo. I did not see anything in the paper about this but I guess I just don't read everything right down to the last paragraph in the paper so I too have to say that I was unaware of this until 2 weeks ago when I found about a lot of this being, or taking place. I guess that's my comments. Thank you for your attention. Mayor Furlong: Great. Thank you sir. Councilman Ayotte: Thank you sir. Tom Lentz: My name is Tom Lentz. I live at 404 Santa Fe Circle since 1969. I too am against the development of this green area. I have some copies here of some stuff I want to share with the council members. Councilman Ayotte: Sir, I'm sorry. I didn't hear your name. Could you say it again? Tom Lentz: Tom Lentz, L-e-n-t-z. Councilman Ayotte: Thank you. 14 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 Tom Lentz: I pretty much agree with everything that's been said so far. Just listening to it I think something that is obviously of historic significance like this. It doesn't appear to me that the government or the councilor you folks did anything extra to make sure that the public would be behind this. This isn't like some other development. It's obviously, it's in a historic significant area. With this information I have handed out, it pretty much even talks about it back when it was done in '89 and '87. I pulled these out of the Carver County Herald. One says, revitalization plans also include the construction of the old town square where the 19th century church and the first city hall, the white clapboard structure stands. The brick plaza will serve as a meeting place and unified for the old town structures. Then there's another article about children discover pioneer life at Chan Heritage Park. So if anything it's obvious to me that somehow the system failed. We're at a point now where you're saying you don't have any choice but to approve this development. It's obviously it shouldn't have happened. I don't know, it doesn't appear to me that Chanhassen has a heritage or preservation commission that should be reviewing things like this. Obviously I don't know if the other commissions take that role, the Planning Commission or who but from a heritage point of view, has anybody looked at anything like this before you make a decision? And is there any obligation to do that? I know at the federal level, the federal government cannot relinquish any land until a complete study is done about any type of a significant heritage or ecological type significance the land may have before they can release it. So that's a question. Was anything like that done? Councilman Ayotte: You asking a question sir? Tom Lentz: Yes. The commissioners, any of the other committees or commissions in town have the responsibility of looking at the. Todd Gerhardt: There's no requirement as a part of the site plan of this. It's a vacant lot. Tom Lentz: I would highly recommend that the village consider putting that in on sensitive land like this. Councilman Ayotte: There is sir, and I did ask, I want you to know that I did ask the question of staff. Inquired largely due to Mr. Mingo, who I believe probably played short stop incidentally. Is that a good guess? Did you? No? I could have swore. But that the State Historical Preservation officer usually cuts on these sorts of things and I asked specifically if this piece of property was registered with the SHPO and the response that I got, staff obviously does it's research in this area, was no. It was not a part of a historical registration. This particular piece of property. Tom Lentz: Have we had a historical society, preservation society, they would have probably recommended that it be, into that, and would work with SHPO and made it happen. Councilman Ayotte: I tend to agree with you. 15 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 Tom Lentz: Also I included a picture, a couple of snapshots that I shot and the bottom picture is what we see today when we come down West 78th Street. We're not going to see that anymore once that building's there. That's going to be gone. And the loss of the aesthetic value is significant. It's devastating. We have something here that is just very, very special and we're at a point where it's just not going to exist anymore. Now I'm one of the probably 160 people on that petition that did not know this was going ahead until I seen the sign. But I'm only in Chanhassen about half time during the summer and I came home one time and I seen that sign and I said what's going on? And so I can say that also the energy was to get names on that petition, you know if this was an election, the guy would have won by 99 percent. There was nobody that was approached, except I think one person that didn't want to sign the petition. Everybody, and it wasn't oh, okay I'll sign it for you. Everybody had high energy for it so it's obvious that there's a whole bunch of the citizens that don't want this to happen and weren't really aware that it was going to happen. And again I think this is different than any other development that's going on in the city because of the historic significance and also the precedent that was set. With all the articles we read through the years, I always assumed that this was a park. I didn't know that this land was going to be sold and marketed so. Mayor Furlong: I guess one point of clarification, in may, and the information you read out of this articles speaks of the old town square and the brick plaza to serve as a meeting place. Just for clarification, the site plan that we're going to look at later this evening does not change at all the brick plaza. Kate Aanenson: That's correct. Mayor Furlong: The square in front of the old village hall and in front of the church. Okay. It's the grass area where the, there were buildings before? That's where the restaurant. Todd Gerhardt: No, that was a road. Mayor Furlong: The road went through. Todd Gerhardt: 101 went up through there and then right where the westerly landscaped plaza or planter bed is was the wall of Pauly's Bottle Shoppe. And then as you worked your way west there was the Pryzmus office, apartment building and then the Pony Express was on the corner. And just for note, we did not condemn those 3 businesses. They were under threat of condemnation but it ended up as a purchase agreement with each of the 3 entities so we did not go through the full condemnation process. So I just want to make sure everybody understood that. Tom Lentz: That's just a formality. I mean, if Russ wouldn't have sold, you would have condemned him. Todd Gerhardt: It was under threat, correct. 16 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 Tom Lentz: Yeah, I read an article. I didn't copy that. I did read an article that talked about the fact and he was, it was an article about him closing the business and selling out because his property was condemned according to the article. Todd Gerhardt: Yep, and we tried relocating Russ in two different locations in town. Over in the Kenny's building, which was not successful and also the bowling alley, which he could not enter into a successful lease with the current owner of that building. Tom Lentz: And another problem with, in could add is I spoke with Clark Horn who sat on the council at that particular time and asked him his recollections. And he said that the council contemplated a number of things to do with that land. One was to make it a park, so that was talked about. They also talked about later on making it a library or senior center. His feeling is that they decided not to make it a park because the city square, the area, they said we had a whole block there that was going to be enough land. Mayor Furlong: Which is the new City Center Park, is that? Tom Lentz: Yeah, but now that they put the library there, he says it's more appropriate that that should have been left a park. Todd Gerhardt: And we had those discussions mayor and the library footprint covers almost the same square footage that the parking lot and the old bank building sat on. So if you take the brick pavers and the green out there today, you have as much green space as you had when the old bank was there and the two empty lots to the west. Councilman Ayotte: Could I ask a question? Mayor Furlong: Certainly. Councilman Ayotte: On the picture that Mr. Lentz presented, has this green space always been green space? Todd Gerhardt: No. There were 3 buildings there. The Pony, Pauly... Mayor Furlong: I guess that was my question. Councilman Ayotte: This, I just want to, from a reference point, this green space that's pictured here had buildings on it before. Todd Gerhardt: That's correct. Two bars and a. Mayor Furlong: I thought that was my question. Councilman Ayotte: I didn't understand. Mayor Furlong: No, I'm glad you clarified that because I heard something different. 17 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 Tom Lentz: You know there's another thing I'm going to add to it. You know we basically moved Great Plains Boulevard. It went in front of the church. And that gave us access and view of the church but we moved it to the west. Now we're going to put a building up basically to block the front, the visual front of the church from any street. It's not unlike what happened with the new gym over at the old St. Hubert's school which blocked the views of those homes of downtown. There used to be a street there. Got vacated. They put the gym up and I think there's got to be some consideration taken. I mean architecturally in planning again a historical area, or whatever you're doing there. I mean there's some visual aspects and aesthetic values of these buildings and stuff and my view is that, and not being taken into consideration and being ignored and we're going to lose some value here. Some aesthetic value here that we'll never, ever recover. And as time goes on, it's going to look back at the decisions going to be looked back at and say, boy that was really dumb. Just like we look back at.. . that tears down some of their own structures. Because a lot of those structures that were in Chanhassen when I came here, that would I think, there's a lot of people that wish the historic value was still there. As Chaska's been fortunate enough to keep some of their old buildings and, but Chanhassen, we haven't had that foresight so. Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you sir. Councilman Ayotte: Thank you. Mayor Furlong: We're still in visitor presentations. We've been talking about this for, I didn't look when we started but probably 45-50 minutes so, if there's any new information on this topic I would certainly invite somebody to come forward but from a discretion standpoint, if it' s simply a repeat or continuing to emphasize, I'd ask that we try to delay that. Ron Roeser: I don't know in have anything new for you. Mayor Furlong: If you could state your name and address sir. Ron Roeser: But I'm sure that, I'm Ron Roeser. I live at 222 Chan View. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Ron Roeser: I'm sure all of you own this and have read it and I'm just here to plead the case that you keep that property open. This book contains the history of a church were most of the citizens of the little village of Chanhassen were baptized, married and buried. It's a church whose bells rang out to celebrate Christmas and other holidays and the ending of two world wars. There's a history in here of the goings on of the small village down to the very cost of the building of it. It's a village hall where my grandfather, my father and I all served on the council at one time. It is the village hall in which the only protestant in town served as the mayor for many years. It is the village hall were the first summer recreation program originated. $500 ran the whole program. It is the village hall 18 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 where people like Gene Coulter, of Coulter Boulevard and the Lyman Brothers, Lyman Boulevard, got together and decided to merge with the township so that we wouldn't all become Chaska. Then we have the depot from which many people commuted back and forth from the city. Mail and farm products were delivered and taken there. The area we are concerned with was the heart and the beginning of what we now know as the city of Chanhassen. The business district at that time consisted of Pauly's grocery, Pauly's bar, the post office, the State Bank ofChanhassen and Joe's Place. It was Joe Meuwissen's place where you could get an ice cream cone or a shot of whiskey. Everyone was welcomed. You could even get a haircut there. The State Bank of Chanhassen, after Saturday you won't believe this but the State Bank of Chanhassen was owned by Elmer Kiln, a friend of Franklin Roosevelt and Hubert Humphrey. Elmer was one of the founders of Minnesota Democratic Farmer Labor Party. If you look across the street you see the Chanhassen Dinner Theater. The Dinner Theater signaled the beginning of what today is modern Chanhassen. Once Herb Bloomberg came to town, growth was inevitable. And that's not a bad thing. But just remember that it all started right there in that little square of land. Those of us here, and we have signed the petition, ask your reconsider and not put a building on this lot. A city cannot have too much open space and this is an open space we should keep and develop in some other way. Thank you. Jack Atkins: I'm sorry, just a few minutes. Jack Atkins. I live at 220 West 78th Street. A couple blocks east of this site. I'm curious first of all, did I get a letter? Am I within 500 feet? While she's checking on that, I guess the first thing I'd say, to prevent this from happening in the future is any commercial development, you should probably extend that to at least 2,500 feet. I think you can tell from the comments made that there's a few hundred of old Chanhassen people here that are feeling that they got bowled over with development over the past 20 years. You're getting some of those expressions, a feeling about that property now. That was my father-in-law that just spoke. He was baptized at that church and my wife was baptized at that church. I guess the issue for me, living that close to that property, and I don't think that I did get a letter. Kate Aanenson: No... Jack Atkins: I did not? I heard about a Dunn Brothers and a daycare center and I thought oh, how quaint that would be. I didn't realize that the building was going to have a roof surface area that's larger than my entire lot. I think that the Goddard School's a very nice school and it's a good concept. I think it belongs in Chanhassen. I think that they're trying to put a square peg into a round hole in that facility. That they're going to put a massive building with a huge roof and a, it's going to be entirely fenced in. I realize you guys can't do anything about it. I would urge Goddard School to consider some more appropriate lot in Chanhassen. Maybe on the frontage road along Highway 5 would be a lot easier access for them and I would hope for Judy Schmieg as a last ditch effort here, that they would consider doing that and if they did consider doing that, that the council would allow them to get out of their purchase agreement. That's all I had to say, thank you. 19 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 Mayor Furlong: Thank you. We're still on visitor presentations. This is again an opportunity for others to come forward to discuss other issues. Ma' am, if I may ask. Judy Schmieg: I'm waiting... Mayor Furlong: Okay, but we did already spend a lot of time with you so we'd rather not have people speaking 2 and 3 times. Okay, thank you. Judy Schmieg: That's very welcoming, which happens to us all the time. Why can't you listen to us? Mayor Furlong: Ma'am, all I was saying is, we spent a lot of time. Judy Schmieg: ... ourselves, if you feel the same way, we don't want anything repeated and don't come up again, why can't you listen to us? This is pretty important to us. Councilman Ayotte: Ma'am, if you think it's important why don't you give us a chance to talk. Why don't you have a seat and let's see how we can resolve some of these issues instead of dropping a bomb and leaving. Why don't you have a seat so we can finish up. Mayor Furlong: Just so there's clarification here. Ma'am please. We're still in visitor presentations so this is a point in the council meeting when we listen. I know there's been a lot oflistening going on, okay. We are going to, and the reason you're talking now, we are going to address this issue on our agenda. We've got another thing inbetween here that we're going to take up and then we're going to address this as part of our site plan approval. So that's why. Judy Schmieg: But I don't know where to address you. You people think we know. Nobody does. I thought it was visitor presentation. Then I have to keep my mouth shut. And the question I'm still have, Mr. Mingo asked the attorney if the council doesn't approve this, is that one of the contingencies and I did not hear the attorney answer it. And I just want to be sure that's answered before you start. It's frustrating. Okay, I'll go sit down. Mayor Furlong: I want to make sure we have an opportunity to. Tom Lentz: I have one, sorry I have one question based on what I heard. I'm not sure how the city government works but if you had made a decision that notices were going to go out within residents within 500 feet, for public comment, and you in fact did not do that, or get them out to those people, does the process start over again? At the federal level I know it does. In other words if you made, the council made a decision that the public would be noticed by within 500 feet and you didn't do that, and now you have to get those notices out and start the process over again. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Is that our practice or not? The 500 feet, and I think. 20 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 Kate Aanenson: I don't think he's within 500 feet though... Mayor Furlong: Okay. So part of what we have in our packet I believe is a statement, an affidavit from our city clerk with regard to the public notice. Is that correct Ms. Aanenson? Kate Aanenson: I'm sorry. Mayor Furlong: Doesn't Ms. Engelhardt usually include a distribution? Kate Aanenson: It's inside. It's in your packet... Mayor Furlong: So the affidavit of the mailing notice. Kate Aanenson: Attached. Mayor Furlong: And I, ladies and gentlemen, I'm trying to be as accommodating as I can. Dick Mingo: Just one quick, 500 feet away from that area, I'm an old football coach too. That's only 165 yards. Hell, there's only a couple houses within the 165 yards of it. The rest are all businesses. Mayor Furlong: Alright. Okay. Is there any other items with regard to visitor presentations? Otherwise I'll close visitor presentations. Hearing none we'll close visitor presentations and move on with our agenda. Thank you. I'd like to invite forward now, we have both Chief Geske and Sergeant Olson. They requested to come before the council this evening and give us an update on the President's visit this last Saturday from a security and fire safety standpoint so gentlemen. One or both. Whichever you prefer. Sgt. Jim Olson: Hello. It was an honor for me over the weekend and last week to be involved in the planning for the Presidential visit. The cooperative effort between city, county, state and federal agencies were incredible, and that certainly helped with the way that thing came, or the way it came off and as smooth as it did. There were over 170 law enforcement officers from 21 agencies that were involved in this, and that doesn't include the federal officers that were there. During the event itself we had 21 calls for service in the city from practically 9:00 in the morning until 5:00 in the afternoon. 10 of those were related to the event. Only one of those was an assault of a person wearing a Kerry t-shirt and there were 2 citations that were issued for that event. That was after everything was over and everybody was walking away. Inside of the event itself there were 7 medicals. 4 missing children and there were no arrests at all. It was an incredible event to be involved in, and it went very well from law enforcement standpoint. I have to give praise to the Chanhassen Fire Department with the way that they handled everything, and also city staff with the planning that was involved with setting that up so. Any questions for myself regarding that event at all? 21 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 Councilman Ayotte: Yeah, just a, I know you exercised the EOC. The Emergency Operation Center. I know you exercised some other things. The joint powers activity increased so this was able, this was a chance for us to flush out a lot of our public safety activities. Could you kind of hit which ones were flushed out as a result of this operation besides the ones I mentioned. Sgt. Jim Olson: Unified command, which I think you kind of hit on. It allowed us to put that into practice. Our unified command structure. Unified command planning and it was certainly a good training exercise for all of us and certainly from the networking that went on with this with everybody involved was also very, very helpful. Putting in a plan for mass disaster, mass casualties, terrorism aspects that we looked into was also very good training for us and allowed us to look at a number of different things that we really have not had a chance to put into practice in the past with things that we have done so from that aspect it also was very good. The mutual aid agreements that we have with neighboring communities was certainly called upon to assist us with that and again 21 agencies were involved with helping us out and when we need help, there are many agencies that are there to assist us and that is certainly appreciated and they all did a very good job with us. With assistance. Councilman Ayotte: And the head count. How many? Sgt. Jim Olson: You know I read in the paper there was 17,000. I don't know how accurate that was. I think city staff was going to work on trying to get more accurate... Todd Gerhardt: Somewhere between 16 and 17,000. We parked 3,335 vehicles at the designated parking areas. You probably had another 2 to 3,000 in downtown and, or on roads or where individuals may have walked or rode their bike. We had a bike corral. It was a great team effort on all the different agencies parts. Some of the other things that we found out prior to the event we had some questions and concerns with our 800 megahertz system. That's our radio system working effectively out of the basement of the fire station. Also the cell phone use in the fire station. We had questions and concerns with that so we moved the EOC from the fire station to the Fountain Conference Room and were able to utilize the senior center for dining for those officers, Secret Service and employees that needed to get meals. We had employees that worked a minimum 11 to 12 hour days and they would come in and grab a bite. The outsource food vendor for the jail provided free of charge lasagna, egg bake for all the volunteers and employees that worked the event, and we sent her flowers in appreciation of her giving on that. You mentioned the transportation. I had fears of gridlock when they were talking about potentially 20,000 plus people coming to downtown Chanhassen. We didn't experience that. It was free flowing traffic on Highway 5 in downtown and I can't thank the Sheriff Bud Olson and his staff enough for his leadership and all the mutual aid groups that were involved. The city staff, from public works to department heads did a fantastic job and I think the key thing that we really learned from this whole event was that we work very well as a team. We had oh dozens of different agencies and we could communicate effectively using our new 800 megahertz radio system. We were able to use cell phones where you didn't have log jams on those. And it was a great mock drill 22 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 but for a real event for us to be prepared if we ever do have a tornado or some major snow event in Chanhassen that we are prepared and ready to take on incidents like that. So hats off to everybody that was involved. Sgt. Jim Olson: There were a couple of comments that after this exercise 4th of July parade will feel like a piece of cake now. Mayor Furlong: And how long are we going to take to plan the 4th of July parade. Relatively about 6 hours. Todd Gerhardt: Little more than a week. Sgt. Jim Olson: Well... the planning on this in about 4 days so there was a lot of hours involved by a number of people. Councilman Ayotte: Thanks a lot. Mayor Furlong: I'm going to hold comment. Chief Geske. Chief Gregg Geske: Thank you. We had from the fire department on Saturday itself we had 22 members that were involved. 5 were in the inside of the event on medical duty doing any medicals. We had one engine on the scene. Crew at our main station and then members at our station 2 and also a crew set up down at the public works department from Victoria that were on mutual aid to us for standby. Being that we were going to be cut in half when the motorcade came through the town, we did have a crew set up south of the highway there so that we could handle any calls down at that end. We set up for basically the what if. We had the fire station set up for mass decontamination. We had Carver County Hazmat set up at our station too. It's good to see that we didn't have any issues or anything or any calls that we ran into but we also had a small mobile response decon set up and also set up to deal with the decontaminate the motorcade if need be so it's good to see that we had nothing in that regard. Just a few medical situations. I guess I'd like to pass it on to staff to give a special thank you to Rick Rice for everything we asked from him with our name tags and everything else and we got maps and stuff so if you could pass that on. Other than that, things went well. Of course we went from Saturday to Sunday to our open house and I offered up any of the members that needed possibly some marital counseling after the weekend, them being gone all weekend, that maybe the fire department could help them out with that so, but that was a great day yesterday with our open house. Mayor Furlong: Yes it was. Comments, questions. If I may, thank you Chief and Sergeant Olson too for, from the sheriff s department. There were a lot of, Chanhassen was, Saturday was a historic day for Chanhassen, plain and simple and the preparation time which began with a meeting at 9:00 on Monday morning and culminated with what can only be described as a very successful visit by the President of the United States. It just, I was so proud of seeing in the meetings throughout the week, the professionalism and the diligence that was exhibited by all the staff, for City Manager Todd Gerhardt and 23 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 all the city staff, Sheriff Bud Olson, there are many city and county employees involved and it was just proud to see all of them looking for ways to get it done. And never once commenting about the magnitude of it as too big of a hurdle to get over. Weare very fortunate for the people that we have working in the city and the county staff. I thank all of them. I think their efforts are best exemplified by how easy and safely everybody attended the event. We had 16-17,000 people, maybe more visit Chanhassen for a day and they did it without gridlock, as was said, and another. I mean it was, regardless of your political affiliations, whether you wanted to attend the event or not, all of us should be very proud of the way the event went and really how well Chanhassen shone on that wonderful autumn day, so to everyone involved, thank you very, very much. There were a lot of businesses and residents that volunteered time and resources to make it happen, and there were a lot of residents and businesses that were inconvenienced and their normal Saturday routine was greatly upset but we appreciate all of them as well. I mean it was, like I say, it was a historic day. It was fun to be a part of it. Many people will remember it for a long time but how this city operated and planned for it within 4 1Iz days, 5 days and the success with which it took place was just, in my opinion, nothing short of miraculous. It was just professionalism at it's finest and I thank you all. For that. Any other comments? Councilman Lundquist: Yeah I would just, Mayor and Chief Geske and for Mr. Gerhardt and the sheriff s office as well, having been involved in the event from the President's side, from the campaign side, also would add my sincere compliments and gratitude. I've been involved with other events in other cities from this side and I can tell you that the campaign staff is not always or hardly ever kind when they're not in the presence of city staff. When things aren't going as planned, as you can imagine with the pressure going on there, and I can answer with honesty that there wasn't a single time in all the hours I spent on the other side last week that I got any negative comments, so we received a lot of positive comments, which is a great thing and the fact that there wasn't any negative comments is also I think says volumes so Chief for you and your department, the sheriff, Todd and all of your staff as well, I think you should feel real good about that and as I felt good being a representative of the city and a citizen as well, but that it made me feel good that we could you know, we should take that to heart that we got all those positive comments and that generally speaking they don't always come off without a hitch like that, so again my sincere thanks and gratitude to everybody who helped put this thing together because I think that the City of Chanhassen showed very well, as did the sheriff s office and everything else so you know, hold your heads up and feel good about the job that you did. I know there was some long hours and long weeks last week so marital counseling and all, I know how that goes too so, so but again, thanks from the other side as well. Mayor Furlong: Good. Any other comments? No, very good. Thank you Chief. Chief Gregg Geske: Yeah, the one thing I have to add I guess at the end I was approached on Thursday or contacted by the Secret Service as a way to thank law enforcement and fire department. Got the opportunity to meet the President at the end of 24 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 it so it's a once in a lifetime thing for me so I guess I'll remember that and I'll get a picture but thanks. Mayor Furlong: Great. Congratulations. Thank you. Let's move on now with our agenda. REQUEST FOR SITE PLAN APPROVAL FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF A 8.068 SQUARE FOOT SCHOOL BUILDING: LOCATED AT THE SOUTHEAST INTERSECTION OF WEST 78TH STREET AND GREAT PLAINS BOULEVARD: THE GODDARD SCHOOL. FRED RIESE. Public Present: Name Address Judy Schmieg Joanne Meuwissen Rick Engelhardt Mel Kurvers Julia Prinz Thomas Lentz Curt Robinson Gladys Hanna Ron Roeser Franklin 1. Kurvers Rosemary & Dick Mingo Jack Atkins Brandy Geiger Fred & Valaire Riese David Heltner 200 West tih Street 20 1 West tih Street 403 Santa Fe Trail 7240 Kurvers Point Road 408 Santa Fe Circle 404 Santa Fe Circle 202 West tih Street 1321 Lake Drive West 222 Chan View 7220 Kurvers Point Road 7601 Great Plains Boulevard 220 West 78th Street 1016 W. 9th Avenue, King of Prussia, PA 9154 Sunnyvale Drive 7201 York Avenue So #1306, Edina Kate Aanenson: Thank you. Location as you indicated is West 78th and Great Plains, just on the other side of old village hall. Councilman Ayotte: Kate I'm sorry, you're going to have to talk a little louder. Kate Aanenson: Old village hall. Next to old village hall and old St. Hubert's church. This is a highly sensitive area. Discussion tonight so I just want to reframe a couple of things as we kind of move through this before I go into the staff report. This is where the village hall sits. That was that pocket kind of a park area that Todd was alluding to earlier that was discussed in some of the reports where the brick pavers are and the like. I did want to talk a little bit about historic district because that came up. I believe the year approximately 2000 Sharmeen AI-Jaff and Cindy Kirchoff on our staff undertook a process of working through some historic designs for this part of town. As planners we always try to be leaders in looking at some of those areas that we think we need to go, just like we were bringing back to you. Some multi family design standards as we see 25 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 that as an issue as we're moving forward. They spent a lot of time photographing the buildings in town and were moving forward to come up with some design standards regarding character in this neighborhood. As we moved along, there a majority of people that asked that we not proceed with that and it was dropped. Also in the background, when we moved Highway 5 as a part of the environmental assessment document for that, there was the old historic depot and the city manager and myself at that time met with the State Historical Preservation because we thought this would be maybe a possible place to put that and their recommendation is that if it's a historical building, it should be sited correctly. The village hall is not cited correctly because it's sitting at an angle and not in the right spot so for historical significance it does not qualify. We did locate the depot according to SHPO, the State Historical Preservation standards so it does qualify because it's next to the railroad tracks and we worked very hard with the Bloomberg companies and the Dinner Theater to work to get that. So we are very sensitive to that issue. It took a lot of work to get it located there and it is correct and historic in that location so. Councilman Ayotte: Can I ask questions or should we wait? Mayor Furlong: Do you have a preference? Kate Aanenson: That's fine if you want to ask, while I'm on that. Councilman Ayotte: The orientation to the building that takes it out of the parameters of being a historical site, why was it moved? Kate Aanenson: The village, I can't comment on that location of that. Councilman Ayotte: What was the error that caused that? Mayor Furlong: Ifwe can, let's let staff try it first. Councilman Ayotte: Give it a shot because you've got a lot of help here if you can't get it right. Todd Gerhardt: Unfortunately I lived through that event and the old village hall was located behind the Pony/Pauly/Pryzmus building. There was no uniform parking for any of those 3 buildings. Most of the parking was on street or behind the buildings in a dirt parking lot. As a part of the downtown redevelopment we tried to create a uniformed parking theme throughout the downtown. Old village hall sat basically where the garbage dumpster sits right today in that parking lot. So as a part of the redevelopment they took old village hall off it's original foundation and placed it where it is today, and there was a lot of debate. You may remember this, when they put it at an angle. We went through a lot of meetings. People upset that they set it at an angle and BR W were the engineers at that time and nobody knew, it was kind of going to be at this angle but it stayed there and that's how we got it today. People would have preferred to see it parallel with the park, but that's how old village hall got to where it is today. Any disagreement? 26 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 Kate Aanenson: Anyways, back on point on the historic, because I just want to touch on it briefly because I think all these treads are going to kind of weave together. In meeting with the State Historic Preservation Office, their concern, and I'll use the exact term that they told the city manager and myself is they don't like to see a zero effect. They want things correctly placed as they were. Not that you put it in, crunch it all into one area and call it a historic zone but they want things placed correctly if they're historically significant. So the historically significant building certainly is the church in this area and as a staff, one of the things that we've always worked at as far as planning this area that we believe calls out, that you're in a different area because that's what we try to look at, is that we place buildings closer to the sidewalk. Medical Arts building. St. Hubert's when the addition, we asked them to come closer to the street because you enter and you have that sense of you're in a different type of area. The old town. Again, that different feel so that's always been kind of the underlying, and again the central business district, what this is zoned, has a zero setback from the front line and that's what we've included along this corridor. Again, to give a different feel. A sense of arrival as you come in from that direction. So I just wanted to frame that up. Again, this property is zoned central business district. It is guided for commercial and that's how we've always looked at it. In looking at developments on this property. All of our other parks are zoned parks open space and are also guided for parks and open space so they have a different zoning or land use designation. So that's how it's being looked at today when the property comes in. As the city manager did mention, there has been numerous applications over the time as the city's looked at, even when this proposal came in there was two and staff worked hard to say you know, just two aren't going to work on this site and dropped down to one to really make it fit into this so the original proposal that did come before the EDA did have two and it was too intense on the site. Certainly we agree that fast food didn't work so how we got to this type of a use is we felt, as the city manager indicated, the fact that it's 5 days a week. It's quiet on the weekends. It works with the existing church that's using the old St. Hubert's. There's shared parking so we thought it was a good compromise as far as the fact that it's all brick and they've worked hard on that so that's how we came down to, from the planning side to look at the recommendation. So with that I'd like to spend a little bit of time going through the site plan itself. Just a little bit more background. The Planning Commission did review this. Again, their job is to decide whether or not it meets requirements of the ordinance so based on their jurisdictional review of this, they did recommend approval of the site plan based on the fact that the site plan met the requirements of the zoning district. So with that, I'll pass it around in just a minute but it is an all brick building with aluminum. It called off the shingle detail, the high quality. Again we were concerned about the materials in the area so it's a very high quality building. The one concern, as was mentioned was the brick. The orientation of the building, we did spend a lot of time working with the Riese's. Just for your background too, we met the Riese's. The staff worked and were they surprised that we put a park and ride in their back yard so they've seen development on both sides. When we met with that neighborhood and worked through a 3-4 month process to get the zoning in place for a park and ride with some multi family housing so they've experienced development in their back yard and putting in someone else's. Kind of seeing both sides of the spectrum here. In looking at the orientation of the building we 27 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 looked at different, how the building is sit regarding the fact that they do need playground areas. We also were concerned that we wanted a front door presence. That we didn't have a back door facing the street because again we wanted the appearance, just like we asked Chapel Hill to put windows, that we have that street frontage like you'd see in a traditional downtown. While it's nice to have some of those thing, I grew up in Excelsior. I can comment on the changes and the struggles that they have in the core downtown trying to keep businesses competing with Chanhassen. We want to have that presence on a street so they worked hard to get the orientation. While there's not a front door, they do have a back door that's the operable one but a full front so again giving that street presence. The building is recessed in order to make the grades, the parking lot does slope away so the building is recessed 4 feet as you get towards that street. There is a retaining wall there. We also worked to get, what we believe is a highly decorative and those plans are in your packet. Wall, fence, wrought iron with brick pilasters that match the building itself. Again highly decorative which we think is higher quality again. And again the playground structure is mostly grass but there is a padded area for the playground itself. On either side of the building, and that meets their requirements for the State for the playground area. The roof was one issue that we struggled with. This would be the view looking towards the church. Again you can see that on the model. We took these pictures of us using the model so that's where they came from. It wasn't submitted by the applicant. That was just the staff itself trying to get understanding of the orientation of the building itself. One of the things that we were concerned with is, when you have a lot of the HV AC, they like to keep that in their building too so the roof itself, the pitch was lowered but all the HV AC, the heating ventilating equipment, is all put into the roof itself. Again, keeping some of that stuff off, giving a more aesthetic look to the outside. One of the issues that came up with this neighboring property Remax is the shared parking lot. Was that they wanted to see, so they had a better movement through there. Through the parking lot is that this is an existing curb line that we tried to move that curb line. I think that seems amenable to both parties to provide them with access because they also use that driveway. I think with that. Councilman Ayotte: Kate, could you go back to that previous picture where you show the relationship of, zero in on that. Okay, thanks. Kate Aanenson: Again, that's based off the model. That wasn't, that was just taken right from our scale, and we did ask them to provide that. We wanted that for our edification. Understand that too, the setbacks and the height. So with that, unless there's any questions. Staff is recommending approval with the conditions in the staff report and I would be happy to answer any questions that you have. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Questions for staff. Councilman Labatt. Councilman Labatt: Kate. You had talked about, about this property is zoned and guided central business district, commercial and parks are zoned parks open space accordingly. This purchase, or this property was purchased in the early 90' s, right? If I remember right. 28 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 Kate Aanenson: Yes. Councilman Labatt: When was it given the guiding of CBD? Kate Aanenson: It's been that way. Councilman Labatt: It's never been zoned parks. Kate Aanenson: Not since I've been here. I've been here 12 years, it has not. Correct. Councilman Labatt: It's never been zoned parks open space. Kate Aanenson: That's correct. Councilman Labatt: And we've talked about the other potential purchases and the stuff. I remember sitting through a meeting, and I've been here 7 years and I've never, you know nobody's ever come up here and said don't sell that property. The church came into us and looked to expand that property too at one did. Expand that church. Kate Aanenson: Correct. Councilman Labatt: And they came in with a big plan, and I don't recall hearing anybody come and say don't do it then. You know, they had actually taken the old city hall building and moved it to the west end of the property. Todd Gerhardt: It never went through site plan approval. Councilman Labatt: No, but they came with, so there's been all kinds of things that have come before us. But I just wanted to share that one other one that looked to expand. That was the only question I had. Just on the zoning I think right now. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Other questions. Councilman Ayotte: What was the population? How many people got letters on this thing? Kate Aanenson: It's written in the report. Councilman Ayotte: I know it's in the packet but just, I want you to state how many people got letters. You should know this by memory. Mayor Furlong: No she shouldn't. Kate Aanenson: 21. 29 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 Councilman Ayotte: 21, okay. And with respect to this old village hall, which is kitty whompus. What kind oflatitude do we have, and I'll just be overtly silly about it. Could we move it again? Kate Aanenson: I would think so, but if you're going to move it again I believe the state recommends if you're going to move it, that you move it so that it's correct in it's original location to qualify for historic significance. Certainly... Councilman Ayotte: Okay, you could move it again and what are the parameters for moving it again. Say it again so I can hear you. Kate Aanenson: Well if you want to get historic significance, then you need to move it back to where it's original location would be. To quality for. . . Councilman Ayotte: So what you're saying is no matter where we would move it, it would not have a historical significance unless we could move it back to where it was. Kate Aanenson: That's my understanding of the law. Councilman Ayotte: Is that correct? Todd Gerhardt: Yeah, and use materials. Councilman Ayotte: Yeah, materials that would be associated with the era. Todd Gerhardt: Yeah, it was on a rock foundation. Councilman Ayotte: A rock foundation, okay. And where would it have to go if we had to move it back again? Todd Gerhardt: Can you point to the middle of the site plan? Yep. Kate Aanenson: Approximately in this area. Councilman Ayotte: And that's not doable is it? Kate Aanenson: Sure. Not with the proposal in front of you. Councilman Ayotte: Okay. I'm asking these questions to also educate a bit if you don't mind. Now the Environmental Commission is really associated with you isn't it? Kate Aanenson: Correct. Mayor Furlong: Environmental? Councilman Ayotte: Environmental, yeah. 30 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Councilman Ayotte: You're welcome. And I believe it was Mr. Lentz that made the comment that heritage preservation commission would be helpful and I tend to agree with him on that point. I think it was Mr. Lentz that made that comment. Is it reasonable, could the, the Environmental Commission right now does not have the charter to be involved with the review of heritage preservation activity. Do they or do they not? I'm not certain. Kate Aanenson: No they do not. Councilman Ayotte: Okay. Would it be a big effort to alter the commission's focus to consider that as an added function of that commission? Kate Aanenson: It'd be my recommendation that that really would belong to the Planning Commission. Actually in the Met Council if you're going to do something like that, it would, if you were going to weave in one to the existing, it really would belong, in my opinion, probably a little more close related to the Planning Commission who is more involved in site plan review and that's kind of their bailiwick. Todd Gerhardt: And can you, approximately 5 years ago we had a historical review. Kate Aanenson: We started an old town plan and that was started in approximately 2000. I mentioned that earlier, and we spent some time on that and we were asked to cease that. There wasn't buy in from the neighborhood at that time so. We did kind of start that process. Councilman Ayotte: Okay, but there could be a charter for, in your view, the Planning Commission to consider historical preservation check for activity. Kate Aanenson: Sure. There's a lot of different ways you can go with that. Whether you want to do an ordinance or some sort of review. There's a lot of different ways you could set that up. Councilman Ayotte: Okay. Has there been much traffic study with respect to the Goddard activity? Kate Aanenson: They did look, kind of looked at there, what their peak hours were. What their peak hours were. That was our concern. Again, they did do a peak hour study. Councilman Ayotte: I didn't hear you. Kate Aanenson: They gave us their data what they used for peak hours. What their main traffic, morning and afternoon and what their time frames are. 31 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 Councilman Ayotte: Who's reviewed that so far? Kate Aanenson: Planning staff has. It was not a formalized traffic study. Councilman Ayotte: It was not formalized? Kate Aanenson: No. Just kind of what their peak hours, what their normal traffic patterns are. How many children are in the school. What their normal pick-up, those sort of things. Councilman Ayotte: Okay. Thanks Tom. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Councilman Lundquist, any questions? Just a couple for clarification. It's 500 feet. Number of people notified has been raised. What are the other ways that, as a city we try to notify residents and businesses of proposed developments? Kate Aanenson: All public hearings are also, the agenda is published. For the Planning Commission. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Signs on the property. Kate Aanenson: Correct. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Other things, I guess newspaper are some of the things that happened here. Kate Aanenson: Yes, correct. Mayor Furlong: But for the fact that the city acquired this property back through it's downtown development, when would notification typically go out. If this was a privately held property. Kate Aanenson: Exact same process. Mayor Furlong: Okay. So there would be no earlier notification. We're notify the same, the way that the residents found out about this would be the same way that they'd find out about it if it was a private transaction between two private owners or the owner wanted to come in and develop the property. Kate Aanenson: That's correct. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Following up on Councilman Ayotte's question on the traffic. What was planning staff s review of that data and what was the results of that review in terms of traffic on the roads on West 78th and Great Plains? 32 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 Kate Aanenson: There was some concern voiced about the other school, Chapel Hill that's across the street and that the hours there, they start shortly after 8:00. The drop off on this is a little bit broader overlap. They have one start time. This one has an hour and a half, two hour window. The morning drop off. They have some noon or 1 :00 pick-up and then evening pick-up which I think is until 6:00 p.m. So that's different than the school let out time which is 3 :00 so we should be off setting that so we didn't see that as a problem. It's again going back to the fact that that's the 5 day as opposed to what fast food which may be more operational and longer periods of time or something like that. That could be an office building or housing which has traffic 24 hours a day. Mayor Furlong: You're saying if there's a different use. Kate Aanenson: Correct. Mayor Furlong: Okay. So with the current uses, staff found that the traffic pattern was at least complimentary to or didn't. Kate Aanenson: We thought that would be the most complimentary to the overall neighborhood patterns. Mayor Furlong: Didn't overlap the peak times of other uses in the area? Kate Aanenson: Yes, correct. Mayor Furlong: They were offset. Kate Aanenson: They were offset, right. And then also worked you know for the weekend. Again this is a shared parking lot. That worked for the weekend uses of the other facilities, and this plan does accommodate. Mayor Furlong: That would be the church? Kate Aanenson: The Chamber who also uses that building. There's parking provided for that and for the church. That's correct. Mayor Furlong: Okay. And just for clarification, in terms of the location maybe going back to the. Kate Aanenson: The site plan? Mayor Furlong: Yeah. Let's go to the site plan first. Where the paver courtyard is now the village hall. Kate Aanenson: This area. 33 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 Mayor Furlong: That used to be a road? That was the road. Todd Gerhardt: 101. Mayor Furlong: Came through there? Todd Gerhardt: Went through the Standard station across the railroad tracks, up and then it was a 4 way stop at that intersection at 101. Mayor Furlong: At West 78th? Todd Gerhardt: Yes, and then take a right onto West 78th Street was the route for 101. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Kate Aanenson: If you look at the site location map, it shows the property for that road. Mayor Furlong: Okay, that strip going up and down there between the two. Okay. And the building's that were razed from this site where the grass is now, obviously they weren't on the road with the paver stone. How tall were those buildings? Were they single story buildings? Were they two story? Todd Gerhardt: Pauly's was a single story. Pryzmus was a two story and the Pony Express was a two story. Mayor Furlong: And height wise on the two story, were they comparable to this with the roof, if you can recall or high or lower? Todd Gerhardt: They wouldn't be any higher. Mayor Furlong: They wouldn't be any higher, okay. Alright. Parking with other uses if this did not contain to be a daycare, but was an office. Do we know what the ratio of parking would be? Would we still have adequate parking? Kate Aanenson: Depends on the square footage. Todd Gerhardt: It's 1 per 250. Kate Aanenson: Again it really depends again on the use because you have a daycare drop off. You have much more flexibility of that cross over use. An office may, depending on the type of office, may compromise that more during the day or weekends. Again it would depend on if there's an office that doesn't use the weekends, for example realty office may be busier on a Saturday so it would depend on that type of office type of use. 34 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 Mayor Furlong: Okay. Do we know if it was an office use, if the parking would be adequate? Kate Aanenson: Well you'd have to, it'd be perspective. You'd have to limit the size of the building to meet the parking standards. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Is that a consideration that we need Mr. Attorney to look at? As part of the site plan approval. Alternative uses of the building. Roger Knutson: Mayor, it could potentially create a problem for someone but if they don't meet the parking, they couldn't go to that use. So they might be frustrated in their intentions potentially depending on how they wanted to use the building, but if they don't satisfy the standard or unless they petition you to change the rules. Mayor Furlong: Okay, so there's a catch there. There's a check and balance. That would be the case. Kate Aanenson: Correct. Any change in use would have to meet the standards. Mayor Furlong: Signage. Kate Aanenson: There is signage on the building as shown on the plan. Mayor Furlong: As I'm asking that question, can we include a condition or would it make sense to include a condition that would eliminate neon as an option. Kate Aanenson: Yeah. The signage. Mayor Furlong: Or whatever. Kate Aanenson: Yes. Mayor Furlong: You probably know where I'm going with that question so. Kate Aanenson: Right, correct, and I think that was brought up by the neighbors too. It is a sensitive issue when you're in proximity to residential. Mayor Furlong: But I'm not sure, something, a sign may meet our current ordinance but I don't think it would, if this sign goes through I don't think it would be appropriate. Kate Aanenson: Correct. They're proposing a pylon sign on the corner but that's fine. For the lighting for signage. Mayor Furlong: Is that necessary? I just want to make sure they don't come back with a neon sign because it meets ordinance. 35 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 Kate Aanenson: No, I think that's fine. Mayor Furlong: Is it covered? Or do we expand it? Councilman Lundquist: Condition 19 would be no. Mayor Furlong: I'll leave it to staff to, I think they know where I'm going with that issue and I'll leave it to staff to know what the language, so we're not trying to do that. Kate Aanenson: Yeah, it's condition 18. If you just want to, so we did put in there. I don't know if it' s clear enough, a detailed sign incorporating the method of lighting. If you just want to qualify that by saying you know brightness, intensity or something to that effect. Mayor Furlong: Can we say no neon? Or neon accents or what's, I mean what I'm thinking of here is the Original Mattress Factory sign and I'm not sure how that fits into our current ordinance but I'd like to not have that anywhere near. So, that's a different issue, different topic. I think those are my questions at this point. Thank you. Any other questions for staff? Councilman Ayotte: One other. Can there, when I took a look at the view of the steeple and the building, it doesn't seem as complimental as it possibly could be. Is there anything that can be done about that? Kate Aanenson: I think the Planning Commission asked the same question because a picture shows as, which we took off the scale model shows a white roof. The shingle type is actually on there. It's a dark shingle. Can you hold it, my assistant. So it's a dark shingle, so I think it's a little, I think the Planning Commission struggled a little bit too looking at that large white roof but it will be a dark roof complimentary. Actually the type of shingles they're trying to match in that area so that would I think change a little bit of that intensity when you're looking at that picture. Councilman Ayotte: Yeah, and in terms of the contrast with respect to the vegetation, can we be a little bit more specific with the emplacement of landscape to do a little bit more with it. Was there any discussion along that line and what latitude we have to do that. Kate Aanenson: Sure, there is some existing but if there's a recommendation, we're always happy to meet with the landscaper on site to preserve views or guide certain views. Those sort of things and we'd be happy to work with the applicant. Councilman Ayotte: Yeah, because the other thing that can happen, instead of try to make it integrated is to set it up so that one, so that it actually blocks. Kate Aanenson: Correct. You can either try to screen something or enhance something and we need to work through those. I think we can work with them on those issues. But 36 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 we know lighting's an issue for the neighbors and we want to make sure that that, and the applicants are aware of that too, and that's another thing. This should be pretty low key on the weekends. Councilman Ayotte: One last question Tom I promise. For a traffic study, is that being, in your view, could we get some dividends by having a more didactic look at traffic? Kate Aanenson: I don't know if Paul wants to comment on that but. Paul Oehme: Engineering did look briefly at the traffic. Councilman Ayotte: Pull it closer to you Paul. I can't hear you. Paul Oehme: Sorry. I have the traffic study right here and engineering did take a look at the analysis that the Goddard School did put together. What they did where they compared 3 other schools I believe that currently are running. They looked at the peak hour traffic flows for those schools and basically correlated through the size and the scope of their facility that they're proposing to date, and based upon those numbers we're looking at one at 64 peak hourly traffic increase versus what's today, which is virtually nothing compared to what's on Great Plains currently is what, 8,600 ADT. Average daily traffic flow on Great Plains. Councilman Ayotte: So the current traffic study you have satisfies you and you do not see the need for an additional. Paul Oehme: In my opinion there is no traffic issues. Councilman Ayotte: Alright. Mayor Furlong: Ms. Aanenson, with regard to the roof and sight lines. Functionally is it possible to lower the roof? Kate Aanenson: The applicants can speak to that but the point they made at the Planning Commission is, in order to get the HV AC in, that roof, all their heating ventilating, sorry I'm using an acronym, in their roof. If they went any lower they'd be compromising the ability to get in and do the normal maintenance. They've lowered it as far as they believe functionality. Mayor Furlong: So then otherwise they'd have to have an open roof and then use some shielding or something for the HV AC. Kate Aanenson: Yeah, and we'd rather see it you know, in this area, that was a goal was to try to get enclosed roof on this. 37 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 Mayor Furlong: One last question. I was looking at my list. Maybe it's my last question. Windows. There don't seem to be as many windows on this as we see on some of the other projects that come forward. Is that. Kate Aanenson: It does meet the requirements of the code as far as, there is a requirement for openings and it does meet those requirements. Mayor Furlong: Okay, between the doors and the windows together? Kate Aanenson: That's correct, yep. It does meet code. Mayor Furlong: Alright. Okay. Alright, is there any part of this site plan, there's no variance being requested. Kate Aanenson: That's correct. Mayor Furlong: Is there any part that doesn't meet code? Kate Aanenson: No. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright, thank you. Any other questions for staff at this time? If not I'd certainly invite the applicant to come forward. And if there's anything you'd like to address with the council. We do have copies of the Planning Commission minutes so we have that information in front of us as well but good evening. Fred Riese: Good evening. Fred Riese, 9154 Sunnyvale Drive and it's a pleasure to be in front of you again. I'd like to say right from the beginning that from the first day that my wife and I were presented with this site that it was to the utmost importance to us to maintain the historic quality of the site and that's the way we have worked with the city staff right from the beginning. We have put a lot of changes into this building architecturally and to say the least those changes have cost us a lot of money. So if you have any questions for me, go ahead and please ask them. Mayor Furlong: Any questions for the applicant? Councilman Ayotte: Would you be willing on your own, rather than the involvement of the city, to share with maybe a resident or two all the things that you've done to accommodate the historical preservation to the site. Fred Riese: Sure, absolutely. Ifwe can bring the site up here. Councilman Ayotte: What I'm thinking is maybe it would be a. Mayor Furlong: I'd like to hear some of that I think. Councilman Ayotte: Okay, I'm sorry. I apologize Tom. Excuse me. 38 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 Fred Riese: I can do it down here, that's fine. The site plan first. We have added to the rear of the building the dormer area which basically duplicates the front of the building except for the cupola. As you can see on the model where the cupola is and that designates the front of the building, and then the back by 78th Street, it's basically the same size dormer with the white columns and everything. It just does not have the cupola. We wanted to keep the cupola just on the front to designate the front so we added, but on city staff s request we put that dormer on the back okay to make the back look just like the front because that's the way we wanted it to look along 78th Street. We also added the dormers, the smaller dormers on either side on the west and east sides of the building to give it an architectural look to take away from the. Councilman Ayotte: Why don't you put that think on there so the folks can see it. Mayor Furlong: Nann, can you hit from this camera? From an angle. I don't know, will that work? Or alternate. I don't know if that will help or not. Fred Riese: We have the dormer that we added here. We have the dormer that we added here and here, both with very large white columns on both sides. The two white columns here, here and here. The white columns in the front. On the sides, also on the sides of the building, besides adding more windows and doors to give it to more transparency, which by the way we took it to the max of the building without sacrificing the sheer quality of the strength of the building. We added as many windows as we could. Before the architect finally says you can't add anymore. We also are going to be doing arched brick work above every single window. The reason for that is to try to match the arch brick work to the best of our ability on the church itself to help compliment that arch brick work on the church. The landscaping here on the corner here where we have a bunch of utility boxes, okay. We're adding landscaping in there. Those utility boxes which you can now see as you come down West 78th Street will be completely hidden. You will not see them anymore. The trees that are there will all be staying, okay. We added 4 trees to the site. All of the vegetation or landscaping that's along Great Plains Boulevard we are going to maintain and actually dress up and make better. The center island here, which is actually going to change quite a bit, is going to be all new landscaping in the center island. There's going to be all new landscaping, there's going to be 2 new trees right here. And all new landscaping in front of the building. There's going to be a flag pole in this area right here, which will have the American flag and the Goddard flag. And let's see, what else. Justin Miller: Fred, maybe address the brick color. Fred Riese: The brick color, yes. The brick color, I visited several brick companies and finally found this brick company here that could match the brick on the church to the best of their ability. I took, I found samples on the ground around the church and I brought them with me and that was the best that we could do. To match the church. And the roof, we also matched the best we could. Now keeping in mind that the roof is a cedar shake roof which is probably 50 to 60 years old. It has green mildew on it and I decided 39 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 that probably the best matching roof would be that of a weathered wood, architectural look. So it's not a white roof. It's not a black roof. It's a weathered wood look, and it's architectural. On the roof which actually is not shown here, there are 2 smaller dormers on either side to help break up the roofline. Here and here. I don't know if you can actually see, not in that shot. Okay, so you understand what I'm talking about. Those were added also to break up the roof line. Let me see, the parking lot itself, okay. The building as you know is going to move forward and into the parking lot a bit. The parking lot itself, the grade of the parking lot is going to be made much safer than what it is right now. It's going to be much flatter so that people can, traffic can move in and out of the parking lot in a safer way. Also, lighting is going to be added to the parking lot and sidewalks. The sidewalks that are going to be added are going to be right here which is going to connect with the city sidewalks and there's going to be a sidewalk in front of the school, which will also attach to the sidewalk that goes besides the old city hall and then into the, I'll call it the church park. The sidewalk here and the sidewalk here, in both spots is going to have sidewalk lighting so at night when people are walking, hopefully walking on a stroll in that area they'll be able to walk safely along that sidewalk. The parking lot is going to get an additional 5 parking light lamps. Currently in that parking lot only one lamp works. Okay, and that actually is going to be removed. It's in the center island and we're going to add 5. So that parking lot will be illuminated and it will be illuminated with the type of lights that shine only downward so not out, so it will not be affecting the neighborhood. Let's see. I think that's about it. Councilman Ayotte: That's quite a bit. Kate Aanenson: I just wanted to add. Mayor Furlong: I think that was helpful, thank you. Kate Aanenson: I just wanted to add that they do have a typical plan. Mayor Furlong: I'm sorry. Kate Aanenson: They do have a typical plan, I believe 2 or 3 that they build as a typical prototype. Mayor Furlong: For Goddard Schools, they have a prototype... Kate Aanenson: Yes... prototype but there's no other one that will look like this. Fred Riese: Right, right. There is no one that will look like this. This will be the first one of it' s type. There's been a lot of redesign done on this building. A lot. Kate Aanenson: Specifically to meet what we believe to fit into this area. Fred Riese: Right. So the roof was brought down just about 4 feet from the original height. It was originally a 6:12 roof. We brought it down to a 5:12 which took almost 4 40 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 feet off the height of the roof. To do that we had, they had to redesign the interior drafting area for the mechanicals. So that was all done. And like I said, well the architect told me, she said there will be no room if we take it down any further to work on the mechanicals inside that roof. Mayor Furlong: So that, and that's to answer my question earlier. It's as low as it can go with it's current design, otherwise it would have to be an open roon would suppose. Fred Riese: That's correct. Mayor Furlong: With shielding for the mechanicals. Fred Riese: Right. It'd be a flat roof, which would just not be good for the architecture of the area. We're trying to work extremely hard to blend with the architecture of the area and to compliment it, you know the best we can. And that's our single goal here. To honor the historic site. Todd Gerhardt: Mr. Mayor, could you have Mr. Riese talk about the parking arrangements with St. Hubert's and the Chamber. I think that's a restriction against your property, if I remember right. Fred Riese: Yeah, they're going to be granted easements. The church and the Chamber of Commerce. The Chamber of Commerce, actually those addendums to the purchase agreement are being reviewed right now by the city attorney's office and, but in those proposals the Chamber of Commerce is going to have 4 permanent slots in the parking lot. Which would be right over here. These 4 slots. And then the church is going to have the following slots. The church is going to, that's correct. Yeah, 4 and 4. In remember right, it's going to be 4 and 4. They're just going to have designated parking 4 and 4, and the church will have use of the parking lot on Saturdays and Sundays and also at night during the week, Monday through Friday, and that's all included in their easement. And Remax is also their easement is also being re-written. Actually it has been re-written. It's also in front of the city attorney right now and that also continues to grant them access and also I have talked with the owners of Rem ax and there's going to be a gentlemen's agreement for overflow parking as they require it. Todd Gerhardt: Mr. Mayor, the old St. Hubert's church has on street parking as their means of their patrons to park and access the church. They do not have any ownership of parking in the parking area as that exists today or in the future we will be allowing those times as Mr. Riese has mentioned. Fred Riese: Yeah, and the Chamber and the church will, their designated parking will be indicated by signage with their hours of operations so that no one else will park during their hours of operation. So it will be their parking. Also when, I know you addressed the signage that was. Mayor Furlong: You heard that? 41 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 Fred Riese: Possibly going to go on the property, yes. Right now there is nothing, no plan for any sort of illuminated signage at all. I just want to make that point. Mayor Furlong: Okay. We may still put it as a condition. So fore-shadowing it. Okay, thank you. Any other questions for the applicant? Okay, any follow-up questions for staff? If not, why don't we bring it back to council for discussion. Councilman Labatt, you want to start? Councilman Labatt: I'd love to Mayor. Okay. While, this is one of these tough ones here where the residents and neighbors, the passion to stop this and yet we're bound by our zoning and rules that we have here, so this is a case where if the shoe fits you must wear it. Bob, how's that? Councilman Ayotte: That will work. Councilman Labatt: You know as I look through the plans and specs, to try to come up with a way to kill this thing, I don't see it. I mean the applicant here has bought a parcel of land, whether it's public or private, under a legal means and we've done everything as a city here as far was notifying whether it was private or public. We have no choice. I like what Mr. Riese has done here with trying to come in with a project and a plan that really blends in. If you look at what, in the Findings of Fact number 4. Creates a harmonious relationship of building and open space with natural features and existing and future buildings. You couldn't have asked for a better building. And here an applicant has gone above and beyond what would normally be put upon them. It's a case like this where I hate to say the term you know, this is where we become Chanhassle again. Where this applicant here has gone way above to make this thing work. He's, where are my notes here? Back when Tom and Brian and Craig, 2 years ago when you first joined, we, remember I think it was Craig or Brian that asked city staff to inventory our city property. We were faced with a budget crisis. And we were needing to come up with funds and look at forecasting what we have. And we asked city staff to inventory all the city property. Give us the zoning, give us the guiding and what's the plan for this and that. This is one of those projects we talked about. And we as a council, the 5 of us decided let's look at unloading some of this property that we're wasting here. Let's look at generating some tax revenue on it. Let's see what we can do to fit in, and here's an example here of our city staff doing what this council charged them to do. Doing what the 18,000-20,000 charged the 5 of us to do and keep their taxes within line. Lower their taxes when we can. Be good stewards of the money. Now here's a case where we're doing it. And now we're, I don't want to... but now we're being condemned for it. Two years ago we talked about doing this and so there's been no, nothing put underneath the hat here hidden. We've looked at different proposed developments here. I mentioned the DQ Grill and Chill. Dunn Brothers. Goddard. The expansion of the church. They came in on that night. There's been a lot of talk on selling this property. In the 7 years I've been up here, we've talked about looking at this site as a potential church. It's too small for that. We looked at a potential farmers market. And whether we brought that here to City Center Park. But I've never recalled the conversation about us leaving it as a park or 42 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 open space or putting swing sets there. So I'll leave my comments at that. I'm in favor of the project. Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Councilman Lundquist: My comments probably a lot similar to Councilman Labatt' s. As we went forward on this proposal, again as Councilman Labatt said, I think it was under direction of the council that staff went to sort of actively market this property so they did that at the request of the council and/or the EDA. And I think that the efforts that have gone through this proposal set it apart from the other ones that have come. When Grill and Chill came, they were asked to make some changes and basically responded with a flat out, you know no. And so that was our response in return. And as I responded in my emails back that I received in the last few days on this project, it' s still my belief that this city shouldn't be in the land ownership business for the sake of owning land. Ifwe're not going to intend it, if we don't intend to do something with it, that we should get it on the market and not, and be good stewards of our taxpayers money so here's an opportunity we had to turn some of that land back into revenue and we found an applicant who was extremely willing to make changes and added expense to themselves, so that being said, again no variances. Meets all the codes. We have a legal and binding agreement, purchase agreement and unfortunately not everybody's going to come out happy in the end of this thing but hopefully we can learn some lessons going forward. Right now not only are we bound by it, but I think I'm in favor of the proposal just on the face value for what we've got so I would commend the Riese's and our staff as well again for really trying to do the best for this site and put a good product on there that still preserves the location and the feel. Look and feel of that area. So I'm also in favor. Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Councilman Ayotte. Councilman Ayotte: Yeah, a couple of facts. The facts are that traffic is not going to be an issue. The facts are that our communications with the residents is flawed in this particular situation because we got a whole bunch of signatures here of people with sour pusses and we've got a project that's pretty solid and we've got a project that you guys tried to assimilate to the community. Assimilate to a historical site which is really not a historical site. So what I'd like to see, instead of people walking out because they don't particularly care to hear what we've got to say, is to possibly consider heritage preservation as a target out of this, and see if we have potential concerns and somehow capture that, so I just want to bring that point up. Maybe there's something we should look at and maybe, is the Villager here tonight? Villager's not here tonight so some of these things that maybe should be getting into the Villager, like this discussion, may not and maybe we need to figure out a way of communicating in tandem along with the Villager so we've talked about this before. What things can we do to communicate so that we don't have this particular situation. I dare say maybe half or a third or maybe three-quarters of these people would feel better about the project if they would have worked in concert with these folks to see all the things they've done to compliment that church. There's nothing you can do to compliment the kitty whompus city hall we've got sitting there. You know that was a snafu from the get go. So I'm in favor of the project. 43 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 I'm upset over the fact that the community doesn't seem to be educated on this point. I'm concerned that we do not have a newspaper here to hear these concerns, and I'm also wondering whether or not we do need to, in some fashion, take a look at our heritage preservation activity and possibly formalize it in some fashion. And I've got these guys names here. I'm going to make some calls to some of these folks, see if they want to participate. Because peak and valley participation's not the way to go in a community, so, and Mr. Atkins' point about maybe us taking another look at the population that we communicate, maybe it shouldn't be a threshold. Maybe we should look at each situation and see how we can invite more folks to participate so with regard to the project, I'm for it. I'm concerned about heritage preservation identification and I'm concerned about communication with the community and I think we have to address that in some fashion. And I really applaud and appreciate your involvement with this community sir. Thank you very much. That's it. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Try not to repeat. I think again the difference with this property versus a normal site plan approval is that the city was involved early on as part of the EDA having acquired this property through redevelopment. Objectives for our downtown area. And what the EDA, Economic Development Authority, it's about economic development. From a development standpoint, we can go back and say what people were told. What they weren't told. I think from a practical standpoint, it's important to follow and look at our comprehensive plan and what I heard tonight is that long before the city ever acquired this property it was zoned for commercial development. And it was not a park or that was not the intention. I think the issue I have and some of the questions I was asking earlier tonight was the issue that's been brought up is the sight line towards old St. Hubert's church. And so I was trying to ascertain what was there before there was green grass. The reason there's green grass there now is because, as I understand it, after the city acquired the properties, we razed them rather than leaving empty buildings there. We didn't do that with the bowling alley. We waited til we had a development there before that bowling alley came down, and there was vandalism issues and obviously it was very unsightly and I guess I applaud the city earlier for taking the buildings down here and at least planting grass rather than just leaving them sit there. As Councilman Labatt said, this council directed staff to actively look at property throughout the city that the city owned that could be redeveloped. That's part of what the Economic Development Authority does. In addition to the bowling alley, which is an ongoing redevelopment as that building has now come down and it's happening. This was a site that we've looked at. You heard earlier we turned down some other applicants because we didn't think it was appropriate. We also looked at the old Red-E-Mix site along Highway 5 and the pedestrian bridge. We went out, actively solicited proposals there. The ones that came back were not acceptable and we said no. We're not interested in selling for those, so I believe this council is being prudent in terms of looking for opportunities to put city owned property back onto the tax rolls, but not doing it in such a way that we're doing it at fire sale prices or we're doing it at whoever first comes through the door. So I think that's important. With regard to the site plan itself, it meets the zoning requirements. It meets all the ordinances. I'm sorry. Kate Aanenson: No, it exceeds. 44 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 Mayor Furlong: Exceeds. There are no variances being requested. From a site plan process itself, I commend the applicant, the Riese's for listening and doing so much to try to accommodate the request of the historic site. Things that they didn't have to do that I'm assuming they'd still meet site plan requirements had they not done that, so I think that needs to be pointed out. So from a site plan standpoint, I can support and will support it because it fits. You know from an overall development standpoint, there will be disagreement on this in terms of site plan and like. You know with regard to a park or with regard to a business there, private business, I think this type of business is complimentary with other businesses around the area. It's kitty corner from Chapel Hill Academy. The preschool. As we heard, the traffic flow is not going to be an issue. It's going to bring people to our downtown, which is part of what economic development's about and why we're going through this process. Parents are going to drop off their children in the morning and bring them back in the afternoon. It's going to help other businesses in the downtown. These are all issues that we talked about at the EDA. We wanted to make sure that the traffic was addressed. It's been addressed. We wanted to make sure that the architecture was appropriate. That I too believe has been addressed, so that's getting more on the development issues and is more of a recap of what we did as an EDA back, starting in April and then completing it through August. From a site plan standpoint, I believe it meets the requirements and I will be voting in favor of it for reasons previously stated. Any other comments or discussion? On this. The one thing I would ask is that if somebody makes a motion, if they could include a condition. Councilman Labatt: 19? Mayor Furlong: 19. Do you have some language there or suggested language? Kate Aanenson: Sure. If you just want to modify 18 that says the applicant must obtain a sign permit. If you want to add no illumination. Roger Knutson: Or is it neon signs? Kate Aanenson: They intended no illumination. . . Mayor Furlong: So no illumination? Where do you want that included in the language? Kate Aanenson: I'll just modify number 18. The applicant must obtain a sign permit. Somewhere at the end of that sentence. No illuminated signs are permitted. Councilman Labatt: The pylon too? Let's just go with no neon. Can we do that Roger? Just, I mean if they want. If it starts getting dark at 4: 3 0 in the winter time. Maybe they want a sign out there. Kate Aanenson: That's fine. Roger Knutson: I mean if you put a light on it. 45 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 Councilman Labatt: A regular incandescent back lit sign or something, but let's just go no neon for now. Is that okay Mayor? Mayor Furlong: That's fine. Ifwe could say no Original Mattress Factory sign, but that's a little more specific. Let's find out where the problem is that addresses that. So what, based on those comments, what would you suggest? No neon? Councilman Labatt: No neon or high intensity lighting. Councilman Lundquist: Okay. Kate Aanenson: Correct. Mayor Furlong: And we'll leave it to staff to determine high intensity. Thank you. Councilman Labatt: Yep. Mayor Furlong: Okay. With that, is there a motion on this? Councilman Lundquist: I would move that the City Council approve Site Plan 04-32 for an 8,068 square foot building to house a school as shown on the plans dated received September 3,2004, subject to conditions 1 through 18 including modifications for sign lighting as previously discussed. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Is there? Councilman Labatt: Second. Mayor Furlong: It's been made and seconded. Is there any discussion on the motion? Councilman Lundquist moved, Councilman Labatt seconded that the City Council approve Site Plan 04-32 for an 8,068 square foot building to house a school as shown on the plans dated received September 3,2004, subject to the following conditions: 1. Applicant shall preserve all existing trees south of the grading limits and outside of the property lines. Any trees removed will be replaced at a rate of 2: 1 diameter inches. 2. Applicant shall move the red maple shown in the southeastern corner of the site to a location within the grading limits. A revised landscape plan shall be submitted to the city. 3. Permits from the appropriate regulatory agencies will have to be obtained including but not limited to the MPCA and Watershed District. 46 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 4. Add detail sheet showing City Detail Plate Nos. 1002, 1006,2001, 3101, 3102, 5201, 5203, 5214 and 5300. 5. Sanitary sewer and water hookup charges are applicable for the new building. The 2004 trunk hookup charge is $1,458 for sanitary sewer and $2,814 for watermain. Sanitary sewer and watermain hookup fees may be specially assessed against the parcel at the time of building permit issuance. All of these charges are based on the number of SAC units assigned by the Met Council. 6. Prior to building permit issuance, all plans must be signed by a professional civil engineer registered in the state of Minnesota. 7. Any retaining wall over 4 feet in height must be designed by a Structural Engineer registered in the State of Minnesota and require a permit from the Building Department. A 4-foot safety fence must be included on top of the wall where adjacent to a pedestrian walkway. 8. On the site plan, revise the handicap parking stall from 9-inch to 9-feet. 9. On the utility plan: - Revise the sanitary sewer pipe class from SDR35 to SDR26. - Revise the watermain pipe from CL55 to CL52. 10. Show all existing easements on the plans. 11. Revise the plans to provide a minimum of 1.5 feet of elevation difference between the FFE of the building and the emergency overflow elevations of the side yard areas. 12. Storm sewer sizing calculations for a 10-year storm event must be submitted prior to building permit approval 13. Tree protection fencing must be installed around all trees in the construction zone that will remain. 14. All rooftop equipment shall be screened. 15. The applicant shall enter into a site plan agreement with the city and provide the necessary financial securities. 16. Fire Marshal Conditions: a. The building will be built to the 2000 International Fire Code as adopted by the State of Minnesota not the NFPA 101 2000 Life Safety Code. b. Builder must comply with the following Chanhassen Fire Department/Fire Prevention policies (copies enclosed): . 01-1990 regarding fire alarm systems 47 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 · 04-1991 regarding notes to be included on all site plans · 07-1991 regarding pre-fire plan drawings. · 29-1992 regarding premise identification · 36-1994 regarding proper water line sizing · 40-1995 regarding fire protection systems · 34-1993 regarding water service installation c. The 4-inch ductal iron pipe as shown on page C4-1 should be no smaller than 6- inch per NFP A 13 Sect. 9-1. 3. 17. Building Official conditions: a. The building is required to be protected by automatic fire extinguishing systems. b. The plans must be prepared and signed by design professionals licensed in the State of Minnesota. c. The accessible parking spaces must be located on the shortest possible route to the buildings served. d. Roof drain piping must be air tested within 10 feet of the building. e. Detailed occupancy related requirements will not be reviewed until complete plans are submitted for a building permit. f. The owner and or their representative shall meet with the Inspections Division as soon as possible to discuss plan review and permit procedures. 18. The applicant must obtain a sign permit prior to erecting the signs on site. A detailed sign plan incorporating the method of lighting, acceptable to staff should be provided prior to requesting a sign permit. No neon or high intensity lighting will be allowed." All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to o. Mayor Furlong: Thank you everyone. We do appreciate your comments. Given the hour, I'm going to call a 5 minute, or recess subject to the call of the chair. Be back in 5 minutes please. The City Council took a short recess at this point. REQUEST FOR A PRIVATE KENNEL PERMIT. 8561 FLAMINGO DRIVE. LINDY & DENISE HOLLINGSWORTH. Justin Miller: Mayor, council. Staff has received an application for a private kennel permit at 8561 Flamingo Drive. By city code anybody who has more than 2 dogs or a combination of 4 dogs or cats, over 6 months in age, are required to have a private kennel permit. The normal city practice as stated in code as we published in notice of such a request in the Chanhassen Villager. If no complaints are received and it meets a satisfactory inspection by our kennel inspector, which is our CSO, and the animals are licensed, it is granted. A kennel license. A private kennel license which is good for a year. We did receive some complaints on this. One written, which was in your packet and I received one verbal also which was not included in this obviously. The CSO's did 48 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 go out and look at this facility. They are asking for a kennel permit for 3 dogs and 8 cats. The CSO's went inside the premise. Found it very clean, very sanitary. Found the animals to be well cared for. Did not see any issues with the facility. With that, the staff would recommend approval of the private kennel permit pending their licensing the animals with the city. I can take any questions. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Questions for staff. Any? Councilman Ayotte. Councilman Ayotte: Now by having this permit, is it more restrictive? Are the people having to adhere to a stricter set of rules than not having such a permit? Are there inspections required on occasion and so on? Justin Miller: They have to renew annually and at each renewal we'll do the same process where we will, they will have to renew. It will be published in the paper and there will be an inspection annually. Councilman Ayotte: Okay. And I assume that these folks have not accumulated their 8 cats in a day. It's probably been over some period of time. Have we had any complaints prior to the application for this permit? Justin Miller: No. And as far as I can tell or have been told, the animals all remain indoors except when taken outside to go on a walk or use the restroom. Councilman Labatt: I've never seen a dog use a restroom. Councilman Ayotte: Okay, so anyway. We've had no complaints. How many of these types of permits do we have issued in the city? Justin Miller: It's hard to tell but usually we receive complaints I'd say on average of, or not complaints but when we've put one in the paper for notice we receive an issue about once a year. Usually what happens is people see it termed a private kennel permit and they think they're going to be running a kennel, you know breeding operation out of their back yard, and once you explain to them what it is, they usually drop their objection. Councilman Ayotte: How many of these permits do we have issued? Justin Miller: I don't know. Councilman Ayotte: We don't have any idea? 2? 10? Justin Miller: I'd say it's more than 10 but it's not in the 100' s. Councilman Ayotte: Okay. And historically we haven't had a lot of complaints as a result of this sort of thing. Justin Miller: No. 49 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 Councilman Ayotte: Okay, thank you. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Other questions? I have a couple. One, the condition here requiring a registration of all animals. When a private kennel permit comes in or a request comes in, do we standardly check the registration? Justin Miller: Yes we do. Mayor Furlong: Okay, so that becomes, and would that be a condition if nobody objected to it after publication? If it never came before the council, the registration would be required prior to issuance of the permit. Justin Miller: Yes. Mayor Furlong: So that's no different than normal practice. Justin Miller: That's right. Mayor Furlong: You said you received one verbal comment. Can you tell us who that was from and what the comment was? Justin Miller: I can't remember the name but it was a neighbor and their objection is similar to the one that was written. Just didn't think that amount of animals in the house was proper. But didn't have any specific complaints about what's happened with these animals on that premise. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Thank you. Those are my questions. Any other questions before I bring it back to council for discussion. Seeing none, thank you Mr. Miller. I'll bring it back to council for discussion at this point. Councilman Labatt: Does the applicant have a chance? Mayor Furlong: Oh absolutely. Thank you. Is the applicant here? Would you like to address the council? Thank you. Lindy Hollingsworth: Hi, I'm Lindy Hollingsworth. This is my wife Denise. Denise Hollingsworth: Hi. Mayor Furlong: Good evening. Lindy Hollingsworth: We're at 8561 Flamingo Drive. And we made the application for the private kennel permit given the, complying with the city ordinance requiring to do that. Again a kennel sounds like something we're going to be animals running amuck and what have you. If I could paint the picture for you though, we have 3 small pug 50 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 dogs. One of which is a puppy that would fit on half of this desk here. The yard is not fenced in so whenever the animals are out, they're supervised by us and they're on a leash in our own yard if we're not walking around the neighborhood. We really go the extra mile to ensure that we're not encroaching on anybody's privacy or just anything overt with our animals so we kind of go the distance to make sure they're not bothering anybody, which is more than I can actually say for some of the other neighbors in the neighborhood, their pets in the neighborhoods. We have 8 cats. Now all the cats are basically centralized in the lower part of the home and they're in a very large kennel, and we've actually accumulated them over 15 years of marriage and a couple kids and what have you. My wife's the cat lover. So they're, and they're strictly indoor cats. They've all been spayed, neutered. They've all been declawed. They all get along great, and the thing is, they are never outside. They're all strictly indoors. Any time they are out of the house, if my children happens to have one of them outside in the sun or what have you, they're not really comfortable being outside so as far as complaints go, how that's arisen I don't know because the animals are really, the cats themselves are really a moot point because nobody ever sees them. And when the dogs, as small as they are, are outside, they're with us on a leash. So I read the one anonymous letter that I was given a copy of and I mean, you know it's an anonymous letter from somebody I don't know and it, you know I could sit around and read the Chanhassen Villager and write opinionated anonymous letters all day long. There's no fact in here at all stating any incident. Any particular time or place that involves our pets in particular so I don't know who wrote the letter but it could have been, it may have been a neighbor. It may not have been. I mean they could live across town for all we know, so if there is a problem with the neighbors, I mean we have a neighbor to our left that has 2 very large dogs. We have a neighbor to our rear that has another large dog. And we have our neighbor to the right of us doesn't own any animals at all but we all are on a very good rapport and I'm sure if there was any problem, I don't think they'd have a problem approaching us, given the circumstances so I don't know where these letters originated from but I'm surprised to be honest with you. So that's our input. We appreciate the consideration and I assure you, we go the extra distance to make sure we're not bothering anybody with them. Councilman Ayotte: Just one question for you. Lindy Hollingsworth: Sure. Councilman Ayotte: Based on Councilman Lundquist's comment, you don't think I'm overweight do you? Lindy Hollingsworth: Hey, I'm in no position to say that. Mayor Furlong: Councilman Ayotte, that was during recess so now everybody knows. Before that they didn't. Any other questions Councilman Ayotte? Todd Gerhardt: Keep adding to list Bob. Just keep adding to the list. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Any other questions for the Hollingsworth's? 51 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 Councilman Labatt: Just one quick question. Kate this came up last time, I don't know if you guys were here but it was one of myoid neighbors and, have your dogs ever bitten anybody? Lindy Hollingsworth: No. Councilman Labatt: Okay. Councilman Ayotte: They're pugs for crying out loud. Councilman Labatt: Well but the applicant last time withheld that from us. Their dogs attacked a person in Minnetonka so I thought I'd just ask and that's fine. Let's move on here. Mayor Furlong: That's a good question. Any other questions? Lindy Hollingsworth: Thank you for your time. Mayor Furlong: Yes, thank you for coming tonight. I'll bring it back to council for discussion. Councilman Labatt: Anonymous letters hold no weight with me. Bob, maybe a few pounds but let's just get this over with and approve it. Mayor Furlong: Alright. Other comments? Discussion. No, I would concur. I would fully concur. I think the Hollingsworth's described the letter and comments most accurately. With that, is there a motion to approve. Councilman Labatt: Move approval. Councilman Lundquist: Second. Mayor Furlong: Made and seconded. Is there any discussion? Councilman Labatt moved, Councilman Lundquist seconded that the City Council approve the application for a private kennel permit at 8561 Flamingo Drive pending registration of all animals listed on the application. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to O. AWARD OF BIDS. COUNTRY OAKS NEIGHBORHOOD DRINAGE IMPROVEMENT PROJECT. Lori Haak: Mayor Furlong, council members, this project is in response to several complaints that staff received since 2000 regarding drainage in this area. Just for, by way of location, this is Minnewashta Parkway. The large blue body here is Lake 52 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 Minnewashta. State Highway 7 runs along the north portion of the figure here. We have Kings Road in this location. Going up to Country Oaks Road and the location of the project is actually where 3 different subdivisions each represented here in a different color converge. The issue was brought to my attention in 2001 by several residents who owned homes backing up to basically what is a swale through this area. And there is a storm water pond located in the corner of this lot and the drainage plans for this subdivision show a swale that runs on the these 3 properties into the storm water pond. What's happened is that as these several lots have developed, they were developed prior to the city requiring as-built surveys of properties and so what happened was, we, there was some grade work that was done in this area so that the flow is not diverted into the pond as was designed, but instead it runs down the property line here. So basically this project is proposed in order to address the issues that arose when. . . but then before the city required as built surveys, there were some changes made on the properties that caused it not to function as the city had approved it and intended it. I've met on several occasions, actually I believe it's twice over the past 9 months, potentially a year with the affected residents in the community, or in this neighborhood, and it's about a dozen property owners in the direct vicinity of this project who were notified. They have seen the plans, which I'll go over in a minute, and generally support them. Certainly we have the support of the properties directly involved in the project, and basically are asking these properties, the 4 properties in the box there, to send the city a letter basically stating their support for the project and allowing us to work on their premises. Councilman Ayotte: You said they are, they have sent or they're going to send? Lori Haak: They will be sending. I have scheduled a meeting for this Thursday at 6:00 with those residents. We'll actually, you know provided that the contract is awarded this evening. We'll meet with the contractor, the consultant and city staff will meet with the residents who are interested and show up at that meeting to discuss logistics. Things like time line. Just to give them a feel because it is in people's back yards so we felt it was very important to meet with them. Have them meet the contractor so they could go over specifics about their project because let's see, actually let's do this. Sorry Nann. North is on this end of the property and this is the storm water pond that I was alluding to earlier, and basically it's grading within, right on the edge of this particular property and then in 3 additional back yards, so the intent of the project, the swale is not deep. It's between 12 and 18 inches deep, and so the intent is to actually grade around these trees and preserve those. There's an existing split rail fence in this location. That will be removed and then replaced, and the intent of this meeting, at least in part on Thursday is to speak with the residents and locate things like invisible fencing and sprinklers and things like that, so those can all be preserved. And with the contractor at that meeting, it will be very possible to do that. So we really have worked with the neighbors. Again, the people who really are affected by this project are not the ones who are required to participate in the solution of this problem, but their neighbors have been very accommodating in allowing the city to have access to their property to correct this issue. Kate Aanenson: Just want to give one other point of background because I can see your perplexed. The people that had the problem met with us. We couldn't resolve the 53 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 problem unless we had the people that could solve it as a part of the solution, if that makes sense. Councilman Ayotte: The 4 people that we're getting letters from are not affected by the situation? Councilman Labatt: No they are. Kate Aanenson: They are. The people that were affected by it didn't have to give us land to solve the problem. We finally got the people on board that can give us the land to solve the problem. That's what Lori is saying she's getting formalized letters. They've agreed to let the project happen and we're getting formalized letters, so. Lori Haak: So the 4 individuals shown, the properties shown on this plan are not the ones experiencing the problem. Councilman Ayotte: That's what I said. Lori Haak: Right, that's correct. Councilman Ayotte: So what is the letter, the letter that we're receiving from these people says what? Lori Haak: It says that we've seen the plans. We agree to allow the property owners, and Roger can help me because he saw a draft of the letter. We agree to let the city and it's contractors and consultants access the property. We agree that we will not be compensated monetarily for this but that the city will protect the trees, preserve the fence, lay back all the sprinkler systems and that type of thing. Councilman Ayotte: And all 4 are going to sign? Lori Haak: As far as I know at this point. That's actually going to be presented at the meeting on Thursday, but all indications that I have from those property owners is that they are willing to do that. There's been no objection at all up to this point. In the several meetings that we've had with the property owners. So the project before you this evening, or the request before you this evening is to approve the, and award the construction contract for Country Oaks drainage improvements to Kusske Construction in the amount of$18,450. That amount is slightly above the engineer's estimate but it's less than 1 percent over the engineer's estimate so we believe we have a good price on this project for the work that's being proposed. And I think that addresses the major issues. If the council has any questions, I'd be more than willing to address those at this time. Mayor Furlong: Councilman Labatt. Councilman Labatt: Lori, can you go back to that map. Yeah. The colored. You know Todd, on the end of the circle? On the Stratford Ridge. 54 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 Lori Haak: Yes. Councilman Labatt: That lot. Lori Haak: Bender. Councilman Labatt: Yeah. Can you go one lot to your right. That lot there. Is that property owner affected in any way? Lori Haak: Not at all. Councilman Labatt: Okay. My parents. I want to make sure. I've seen... so Ijust want to make sure for my vote that that person is not going to benefit at all. Lori Haak: No. No, there's nothing, all the grading as you saw in the grading plan will occur. Councilman Labatt: Yeah, at Benders house and north. Lori Haak: That's right. That's right. Councilman Labatt: Yeah. If you need help Thursday night convincing any of those 4, let me know. This is a good project. Lori Haak: Okay. Councilman Lundquist: Lori, can you point out again what, so all of the shaded areas are the properties that will benefit from the drainage? Lori Haak: No, the shaded areas are the subdivisions and the point there was that there are 3 subdivisions that converge and unfortunately in the early 90's and mid 90's, when these, they came in separately. I think Stratford Ridge came in first, and then Country Oaks and then Hallgren, and so as that happened unfortunately we kind of lost some control of water in that area, so actually the water again, there's a swale that comes through these two back yards and empties. It was designed to empty into a storm water pond on this lot. Which exists on site and is functioning. Councilman Lundquist: Okay, so there is a pond there. Okay. Lori Haak: What happens instead is that the water from these several back yards runs down the property line and basically a big, in my mind, problem with this subdivision that was approved was that there's a 2 foot wide swale shown in the plans that runs through this property. This property may touch this one and that one, but certainly outlets at the corner here, and that swale was shown on the plans to be graded in and constructed but an easement was not retained over that swale, so there was going to be, 55 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 you know obviously some drainage going down there but we didn't get an easement over it, so that's kind of a separate issue but basically because this water was re-routed, all of these properties have water going through their rear yards. Now the other thing that I should mention, it's mentioned I think in the staff report briefly, is that staff realizes that there's high ground water in this area so this will not alleviate all of the problems in this area. Councilman Lundquist: So they're still going to get water in their basements because of ground water. Lori Haak: Potentially, yeah. And they've had those problems for a long time but with the city felt was really, I felt very confident in this project that it was something that they didn't have control over as individual residents. So I felt comfortable with the city helping out on this one and trying to at least alleviate or minimize the surface water problems. Councilman Lundquist: So what happened to those lots on Country Oaks Road that the stuff drains into, the properties to the north in the light blue section up there. Where you said it drains out to the corner. Lori Haak: Correct. That drainage path will still be in place. This is not involving any of that at all. Councilman Lundquist: So all you're doing is taking the dark blue stuff and throwing it in the pond instead of throwing it into the light blue back yards. Lori Haak: Yes. Basically putting it where it was supposed to be originally. Mayor Furlong: Any other questions for staff? No? Okay, thank you. Appreciate it. I'll bring it back to council for discussion. Councilman Lundquist: It's a good deal. Shows progress on working towards a lot of this, the surface water things. We've heard about that over the past few months in different developments and things so this is an indication of where that money when we throw it into the pool, no pun intended. Lori Haak: You can make puns like that. Councilman Lundquist: That's where it goes so no, so it looks like a good use of funds there I think. I'm comfortable with it. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Councilman Labatt same thing. Councilman Labatt: Ditto. Mayor Furlong: Councilman Ayotte same thing? 56 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 Councilman Ayotte: Yep. Mayor Furlong: No, this is solving a problem so that's good. With that is there a motion to approve. Councilman Ayotte: Motion to approve. Mayor Furlong: Motion's been made. Is there a second? Councilman Lundquist: Second. Mayor Furlong: Made and seconded. Any discussion on the motion? Resolution #2004-73: Councilman Ayotte moved, Councilman Lundquist seconded to award the construction contract for the Country Oaks Drainage Improvement Project SWMP 12-BB to Kusske Construction Company in the amount of $18,450.00. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to O. CONSIDER RESOLUTION FOR ENVIRONMENTAL CLEAN-UP. MOON VALLEY. Kate Aanenson: Thank you. At your September 2ih meeting you did approve the Interim Use for the Moon Valley site. That'd be the lower area that provided a long term grading plan to get the site cleaned up and ready for development as it comes towards the MUSA. The applicant, Pemtom Development is going for a Department of Economic Development grant for clean-up. Maximum amount that they are eligible for is $50,000. As we indicated with the interim use permit, we did require that they also do environmental review and we know that there's some lead out there from the shooting range, so this money that they're pursuing is in order to clean up that site. We are the pass through agency. The City ofChanhassen. That's why you're required to approve a resolution. There is a match required by the city. Certainly as a pass through agency we're going to put together a separate agreement of responsibility back to the developer of their obligation. Our matching and then indemnification for clean-up, so before any pass through would occur, first of all they have to secure the grant. Then second of all, we would require that there be a mutual letter of understanding or indemnification on the city's responsibility for any claim and also our match on there before we would approve or authorize any. .. So we certainly don't want to increase our liability on that. So with that we are asking that you approve the resolution included in your packet and I'd be happy to answer any questions that you have. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Questions for staff. Councilman Labatt: Kate, risk to the city. We've served as a pass through agents before on different things. Risk exposure. 57 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 Kate Aanenson: I'm not aware. Maybe I'll let the city attorney. Councilman Labatt: Roger. Roger Knutson: Members of council, I don't believe there would be any. We're not an owner and we are not someone who's contributed to it. We're a funder. A pass through funder and we will have an agreement with them if you in fact do get the grant, requiring them to hold us harmless and indemnify us if there's anything so I don't anticipate any Issues. Mayor Furlong: That would hold us harmless on any liability, right? Roger Knutson: That is correct. Mayor Furlong: But that memorandum of understanding would also include reimbursement of any funds. Roger Knutson: Or match, yes. Mayor Furlong: Or match, yes. Okay. And that's legal and authorized under the statutes to be reimbursed? Roger Knutson: Sure. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright. Any other questions? Yeah, no. I'll bring it back to council for comments, if there's any. Councilman Lundquist: My shooting range is getting farther and farther away. Mayor Furlong: Yes it is. Every single meeting. Todd Gerhardt: Now they go back to the generators of that too. Whoever generated that lead, they go back to them. Councilman Lundquist: ... can prove that. Todd Gerhardt: CSI right? Mayor Furlong: No, this is good. It keeps the process moving forward. Sorry. But with that is there a motion to approve. It's my sense there will be. Councilman Labatt: Move approval. Mayor Furlong: Is there a second? 58 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 Councilman Ayotte: Second. Resolution #2004-74: Councilman Labatt moved, Councilman Ayotte seconded to approve the resolution for the funding request for the Moon Valley Contamination Clean- U p Grant. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to O. Mayor Furlong: Let the minutes show that Councilman Lundquist did vote in favor of that motion. COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS: Mayor Furlong: We talked earlier about the President's visit so I don't think we have to repeat that but boy, what a wonderful day the City of Chanhassen shown in the best we could and we should all be proud. Not only the staff, city and county level, but our residents too. I mean it was just, it could not have been more perfect. And obviously my proclamations with regard to weather are adhered to so that's important. Any other council discussions? ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS: Todd Gerhardt: I kind of gave my speech earlier on the President's visit. Again I can't thank the County and all the other agencies that helped us with that whole process. And I think the greatest thing is that we built relationships there. And when I say relationships I mean personal relationships. You spend so much time with people every day up to 3 to 4 hours, 4 or 5 days in a row, you get the read on people's personalities and things like that and they all blended together. And so when that incident does occur in Chanhassen, I don't see any issues. I mean everybody worked together. Nobody was trying to be king pin on this and saying I'm in control here or anything like that. You know everybody knew what their roles and responsibilities were. I went through an agenda every day and we start out with parking. Then we went to the sheriffs office. School district 112 was heavily involved. They were at everyone of our meetings last week because we utilized a lot of their facilities. The elementary school. Bluff Creek Elementary School for parking. We had our street department put out over 500 no parking signs throughout the residential area. Parks did a great job of laying out parking, temporary parking lots at Lake Ann Park and the ballfields and the soccer fields. Minimal damage to the fields. We know we got some sprinkler heads busted and some gate valves probably cracked but can probably fix those with, in a short period of time. Worked with the vendors, Secret Service. I don't know if you knew but John Kelly who does a lot of our real estate dealings out of Roger's office, son was the second in command in the Secret Service detail here in Chanhassen so it was nice getting to know him and hearing some good stories about his dad. That we can use against him. Fire department. You know they had their own operational plan that they put together and they were very well organized and Chief Geske's got a great crew over there and they all work well together. We brought Bruce in. Bruce tracked financing. We put time cards together for how much time that we contributed to this event. Just for record keeping if anybody asked. From 59 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 an expense side it was very minimal. Costs, we upgraded some flags in the downtown that were needed. I think we had a little bit of garbage detail on our side of it, and other than that there was some minor, minor purchases. I think we bought some bike racking just to secure certain areas that we wanted to secure that were outside of the event area. City Center Park and also to help with crowd control that wasn't a part of the event that was more of a safety issue. Other than that, no real problems occurred. It was a safe event and when they upped the number from 15 to 16,000 to over 20,000, Bud and I got a little irate with the event coordinators that day but, you know we still accepted it and moved on and our fears never happened. We didn't have gridlock and things flowed and I think everybody had a great time. A lot of positive comments that called in the city. I bet we had over a dozen phone calls from residents that were pleased and no negative comments received. There were some lost items that we're still looking for, but a lot of the lost items did get back to people. $800 pair of glasses and a few sets of keys. That's all I have. Mayor Furlong: What else did you do last week? Todd Gerhardt: Put out a packet. And that was about it. Mayor Furlong: Well I know too that some of the routine functions of the city kept operating too. I mean we did not shut down some of the routine requests in responding to, from an inspection standpoint and other things so I think as much as there were a number of people involved, there were also other people covering and making sure that the city continued to operate which I think is fantastic so. Todd Gerhardt: Yep we didn't take everybody from each department. We always had some people back to answer planning questions or continue to pay bills and answer the phones. We did get a lot of phone calls here looking for directions to get tickets. And we did bring some additional, brought Nann in to help us out and she did a great job. So I didn't see any drop in service. Councilman Labatt: Did you happen to track the number of hits on the city web site? What the increase was? I know you put that link on there. Justin Miller: We can. I don't think Rick's had a chance to look at it yet. That will be interesting to find out. Councilman Labatt: Look at that week versus a normal week. I think the same week last year, just curious as to what that did for exposure to Chanhassen. I watched the re-run on CSP AN. Kept seeing this guy over Bush's right shoulder you know, that's Lundquist. Todd Gerhardt: Boy, he had the biggest grin I've ever seen. Mayor Furlong: He was happy. Okay, good. Any questions? Any other questions? If not, is there any discussion on the correspondence packet? 60 City Council Meeting - October 11, 2004 CORRESPONDENCE DISCUSSION. None. Councilman Lundquist moved, Councilman Labatt seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The City Council meeting was adjourned at 10:00 p.m. Submitted by Todd Gerhardt City Manager Prepared by Nann Opheim The Economic Development Authority meeting scheduled to follow the City Council meeting was cancelled and rescheduled for a future date. 61