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CC Minutes 1998 09 14CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING SEPTEMBER 14, 1998 Mayor Mancino called the meeting to order at 6~30 p.m. The meeting was opened with the Pledge to the Flag. COUNCILMEMBERS PRESENT: Mayor Mancino, Councilman Berquist, Councilman Mason, Councilman Engel, and Councilman Senn. STAFF PRESENT: Todd Gerhardt, Kate Aanenson, Bob Generous, Para Snell, and Joel Jammeck, City Attorney APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Councilman Berquist moved, Councilman Engel seconded to approve the agenda as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried. PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: PROCLAMATION DECLARING MINNESOTA POLLUTION PREVENTION WEEK. Mayor Mancino: I have a public announcement tonight proclaiming Minnesota Pollution Prevention Week and I'd like to read that. This is a proclamation establishing September 21st through the 27th, 1998 as Minnesota Pollution Prevention Week. Whereas, the people of Minnesota take great pride in the state's natural beauty and support a clean and safe environment; and Whereas, pollution prevention also known as source reduction, is a progressive approach the eliminates or reduces pollution at it's source and is the most environmentally sound methods of protecting our natural resources; and Whereas, pollution prevention can increase industrial and resource efficiency, save participating organizations time and money and create a more sustainable economy; and Whereas, pollution prevention measures can improve environmental conditions and maintain the health and safety of people in the workplace while increasing commercial competitiveness; and Whereas, through increased use of pollution prevention, Minnesota can meet the challenge of having ecologically healthy communities and a vigorous business environment for it's citizens, and Whereas, Pollution Prevention Week will be observed by state governments and other organizations throughout the nation and this recognition is an opportunity for government to work together with business, industry, environmental groups, community organizations, and citizens for a prosperous and sustainable future. Now Therefore, I, Nancy K. Mancino, Mayor of the City of Chanhassen, do hereby proclaim the week of September 21st through the 27th, 1998 as Minnesota Pollution Prevention Week in the city of Chanhassen and encourage all citizens to join in this observance. Thank you. I'd also like to state on this that Governor Carlson is having an award ceremony for excellence in waste and pollution prevention and this will take place on September 23rd at 7:00 in the morning. So on a state level this is also being observed. Resolution #98-82: Councilman Mason moved, Councilman Senn seconded to approve the proclamation declaring the week of September 21-17, 1998 as Minnesota Pollution Prevention Week. All voted in favor and the motion carried. CONSENT AGENDA: Councilman Mason moved, Councilman Berquist seconded to approve the following Consent Agenda items pursuant to the City Manager's recommendations: Resolution #98-83: set 1999 Maximum Proposed Property Tax Levy and Truth and Taxation Hearing Dates. City Council Meeting - September 14, 1998 b. Approve 1998 Trail Easement Payments. Resolution 98-83A: Approve Memorandum of Understanding Concerning Acquisition of Right-of- way for and Design of Future Segments of New Trunk Highway 212 - PW290. e. Approval of Bills. City Council Minutes dated August 25, 1998 Planning Commission Minutes dated September 2, 1998 Public Safety Commission Minutes dated August 13, 1998 g. Resolution/t98-84: Approve Amendment to H.R. Green Contract. All voted in favor and the motion carried. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: Brad Johnson: Thank you very much Mayor and fellow councilmen. My name is Brad Johnson. I live at 7425 Frontier Trail. I'm also on the Board of Directors of the Highway 212. My only comment this evening is that you passed a proposed resolution as it relates to the corridor. Land acquisition. And many of the comments that you have in there are probably apropos for Chanhassen. I think what's happening slowly though is because generally speaking both the elected officials and the staff of this community have not participated in a process that's ongoing. Been at it for 30 years and the last 5 years we've had almost no presence of the people from Chanhassen on the various activities that are going on, including currently we have a 494 coalition that's working very hard to accomplish a number of the things that you bring up in your activity. We also have a lot of meetings going on. I believe Fred, when's the next meeting? The 25th? And what is that? Fred Corrigan: To review the MNDOT's proposal. Brad Johnson: Yeah. There's just an ongoing thing. There's a lack of staff and Council participation. And I agree, if you don't know what's going on, it's very easy to not, you know just let it slide along so I think most of your comments are discussions that are going on. This is a collaborative effort and I think all of you should participate. It's a major issue. Bring your activities to us. Every community in the whole southwest area, all the way out to South Dakota is participating and I'd just make it an agenda item for the staff on the 25th. I believe that's a staff meeting and the rest of the meetings that are going on. Mayor Mancino: Brad, can you tell us a little bit. I haven't gotten a memo on the September 25th. Brad Johnson: Fred is the liaison for us for the Highway 212. Fred Corrigan: My name is Fred Corrigan. I'm working with the Southwest Corridor Transportation Coalition and that meeting is with the District Engineer Dick Steer to discuss the Memorandum of Understanding. I believe your engineer was invited, and City Manager. City Council Meeting - September 14, 1998 Brad Johnson: And that'd be an appropos time to bring your comments. Maybe one of the elected officials and then one of the engineers. But that's the kind of thing that we've been working on and I think you guys should participate in. Mayor Mancino: Good. Good, thank you very much. Anyone else wishing to address the Council tonight? Bob Wold: My name's Bob Wold. I live at 730 Pioneer Trail in Chanhassen and I just want to thank the Council for the fine work they did on reviewing this process and I really support what you've done on the memorandum for the transportation of our area and 212 and thank you very much. Mayor Mancino: Thank you. CONSIDER AMENDMENT TO STIPULATION AGREEMENT FOR HALLA NURSERY~ 10000 GREAT PLAINS BOULEVARD. Kate Aanenson: Thank you. Mark Halla is requesting an amendment to the stipulation agreement that was signed between the City and Halla Nursery in the spring of 1997. The stipulation agreement outlines the terms and conditions which the Nursery and the contractors yard can operate. Mr. Halla's requesting an amendment to the stipulation in order to allow the relocation and expansion of a barn that will house peacocks. The property is zoned A2. It does not require a building permit because it is agricultural use but again what we're going under here is the terms of the stipulation agreement and that's what he needs to address because the stipulation agreement does require approval by the City Council. We did notify the neighbors. Everyone within 500 feet was sent a copy of the staff report. Although it did go out late, we did not receive calls on that. On the report. The proposal includes a barn that is, the current barn is 20 x 50. The new barn would be 54 feet by 100 so quite a bit bigger. Also they are proposing to put 75 peacocks indoors, what they need for the winter space. They're also looking at 3,000 square feet that'd be used for storage. If the Council does wish to approve this, that we are stating that you would, put in the stipulation agreement exactly the number of peacocks and the size of the barn be amended so it's clear exactly and the amount of storage. So it's clear what that barn can be used for and just so there's no ambiguity. That's all I had. I'd be happy to answer any questions that you may have. Mayor Mancino: Thank you. Any questions of staff at this point? Is the applicant here and would you like to address the Council please? Would you please state your name and address. Mark Halla: I'm Mark Halla from 770 Creekwood in Chanhassen. First question I have is, does everyone have a site plan? Kate Aanenson: I gave them copies. Mayor Mancino: Is that Exhibit A? Kate Aanenson: Yes. Mark Halla: Can you see where we're talking about relocating the building to? You may be able to see the small X's that I put on. We've got two buildings right now that we're trying to eliminate. In the storms earlier this spring both of them were damaged and need to be repaired or replaced and in thinking about doing that, we wanted to look at all of the options available to us and see if we couldn't clean up the area and make it look nicer. As you can see there's an X right here and an X right there. That's where the two City Council Meeting - September 14, 1998 current buildings are and one of them is M and the other is L. We'd like to eliminate those buildings and replace them, the larger buildings over in this area. I know it's black and you can't hardly see that on the screen but that's where it was shown on the plan view. The reason for this is that the two houses right now, when we put the peacocks inside over the winter, they're very cramped. There's not enough room. We don't feel that the site of the peacocks during the summer and the winter is very pleasing and we think that by moving this, we can make a better situation for taking care of the animals properly, as well as cleaning up our area. You can see the pond that we've got here. Our hope is to get rid of those two buildings on the other side of the pond. By the nature of the birds, they need to have a flight cloth around them that keeps them in and keeps them protected essentially from hawks and owls and we want to put a flight cloth over this area. Currently that flight cloth is adjacent to the golf course and that wasn't something that was needed to be indicated on the stipulation plan. So we wanted to move that over to these birch trees. The building now we want to make it substantially bigger. We're taking this one which is a 20 x 50. The other one, I don't recall the size. That was 16 x 24. So we do want to make it bigger. We want to use, I think Kate had said 3,000 square foot for storage. I don't think that it's going to be that much. I think it will probably be 1,500 to 2,000 square foot for storage. That's going to allow us the area to put the hay bales and all the feed and then it gives us about 3,000 square foot for animals. That sounds like an awful lot of space but when you consider we've currently got 75 birds, that allows them about 4 foot by 5 foot per bird over the entire winter. If you do the math in your head, you'll find out that comes out to about 1,500 square foot in a 3,000 foot section and the reason I did that is because by the time you put all the feeders and the waters in there, you're going to substantially minimize that area. You end up with about 1,500 square foot of useable space. So that's our hope. We wanted to come to City Council first off because we wanted to make sure you knew that we agreed by the stipulation and we want to have approval for everything we do. We think that's the right thing to do. Second off, because we have to. You know it says that in the stipulation so we talked with Kate originally we talked with Elliott Knetsch, the City Attorney and got some different viewpoints from him on what we could do and this was by far the best alternative. I brought the picture basically so you can see the screening that's already here. We've got an entire block of birch trees that are 40 foot tall. You can't see through them. Is it possible to zoom in on this picture? Or can I just pass it around? There we go. That's the area that we're talking about. There's a grassy area between our potted trees and the existing birch trees and we're going to fill that area with that building. So that's really all I have. Mayor Mancino: Okay. Any questions for Mark at this point? Councilman Berquist: You have how many birds? Mark Halla: We have about 75 birds total. Councilman Berquist: Currently? Mark Halla: Currently. Not all of them are peacocks. We've got swans and ducks and chickens and game hens and. Mayor Mancino: How many peacocks do you have? Mark Halla: Currently probably about 50. I didn't take a count before I came back so. City Council Meeting - September 14, 1998 Councilman Berquist: Did I hear you right? You said something about the site, the existing site. The M and L and the fly over cover. Fly cover, whatever. You said it wasn't very attractive to, who are you talking about? The birds or the golf course or? Mark Halla: The birds have a pretty nice place so they're happy. From a customer standpoint and from the aesthetics of our garden center, we don't think these two buildings are attractive. Now this whole flight cloth was just demolished so none of that really is, it's all in disrepair and of course it's unsightly because of that. But this barn here that's visible by the golf course is right out there with no screening so it's pretty unattractive to them, as well as to our customers and this one's right out in the middle and we've got all this, you have to have a wild area for them. They like the tall grass so we leave it there and that isn't real conducive to growing perennials right next to them and trying to keep the weeds under control. So it's our hope to move all that out of there and not have all those weeds needed. Let me just point out too, I thing I didn't mentioned. It's all in this same area that was zoned R so there really is no difference as far as the placement. We're moving the building but on the flat plan, you can see your flat plan. It's all in the same area that was considered R. I don't know the definition of that offhand but we haven't changed the location that way so it's still an improved area for the use. Councilman Berquist: ...tell me what you do with these things? With the animals. Mark Halla: Basically they're there for atmosphere. There's not a whole lot of use for them. We let them wander around. They fly really well. We've got wild turkeys as well, I forgot to mention those. They wander around the garden center and it's something that the children stay busy in hopes that mom and dad will have more time to spend money. So that's the big benefit is that it draws people in and there's a financial return in that people have more time that they aren't babysitting and more time to shop. But when it gets down to it, there's not a use other than that. Councilman Berquist: So it's not a petting zoo per se but it's close? Mark Halla: We do have feeders and people feed them. They eat out of your hands so, I mean they aren't real fun to pet but they would let you if you wanted to. So they're pretty smart birds other than in the wintertime if they don't have room inside, they'll sit up on the roof and just freeze to death. They will not, if they aren't kept inside, they will not come in on their own. They're dumb that way. But we have an opening and they can fly around the whole garden center and they go in each night. Mayor Mancino: Thank you. Thank you very much. This is not a public hearing but if there is anyone that would like to comment to the Council or who came tonight on this issue, please come forward now. Seeing none. Comments from Council. Councilman Senn. Councilman Senn: Kate as I'm understanding it, ... conversations, basically is everything out there right now in compliance with the existing agreement? Kate Aanenson: I'd have to double check to insure that. I'm not sure as far as signs. I'd have to go out and look again. Councilman Senn: You know initial comments. I don't feel terribly adverse to taking down two old, unsightly buildings and putting up a new or nicer building. I think there's an issue in here beyond that when you're going from less than 1,400 square feet to 5,400 square feet. So I think that's something that we need to look at as it relates to the agreement. The other thing as far as the agreement goes, given the City Council Meeting - September 14, 1998 times this thing's been back before us and all that, I would like to see staff's assessment of, I'd kind of like to make sure effectively that we're in compliance with the existing agreement before we move forward on considering changes per se to the agreement. Mayor Mancino: Okay, thank you. Seems very reasonable. Councilman Mason. Councilman Mason: Sounds very reasonable to me. Mayor Mancino: Councilman Engel. Councilman Engel: Yes, I agree. Mayor Mancino: Councilman Berquist. The only thing I would like to also add is, Mark just so you know that a lot of the concerns that we have had have been the peacocks and their loudness, you know from your neighbor and the neighborhood right next to you and it seems like the place that you're considering, you know moving the building would be closer to the older residents, the residents that you've had in your neighborhood and they're the ones that have been complaining about the peacock noise. So that concerns me to some degree too. So I'd like staff to make an assessment and also to make sure that when you said that the letter to the neighbors had gone out rather late. I just want to make sure that this is on the next City Council meeting so that they have time to come forward if they have any issues too. I know that they've been concerned in the past. Councilman Senn: I think it really makes sense for staff to, I mean there aren't that many neighbors, right? On that end. Councilman Engel: Just a row of houses, isn't there? Mayor Mancino: 157 Kate Aanenson: Yeah, I know of 15 that went out, yeah. Councilman Senn: ... if we just contacted each one. I mean send them a note or. Kate Aanenson: Yeah, they were sent a note. Copies of staff report and I'm saying to date we hadn't heard anything but. Mayor Mancino: Great. Councilman Berquist: ... one final question before we move to table... Your staff report says we've got an application here to build a barn that will house 75 peacocks. That's not true. 75 birds. You're not increasing the population of animals out there? Mayor Mancino: Well what does that mean in the future? How many peacocks, baby peacocks do you have a year? I mean you know, this is a big building. Councilman Senn: No, but there's other things other than birds though too, right? Mark Halla: Yeah, we have peacocks. We have swans. We have wild turkeys. City Council Meeting - September 14, 1998 Mayor Mancino: So Mark is it your intent that the birds will keep multiplying and you're going to keep them, keep them too because I'm sure, I mean how many peacocks do you start with when you started? Mark Halla: We probably started with about 30 and then we got to a high of about 70 and now we're down to about.., but they're like any animal that some of them can get sick and... Mayor Mancino: Okay, thank you. Appreciate it. Councilman Berquist: I mean your goal is not to necessarily increase the population, your overall population of birds? Mark Halla: Exactly. I'm not intending to increase them. The reason I'm here is because I think that if you're going to have the birds you need to be responsible and take care of them well. And if you look at the size of that building and you... My dad wanted peacocks. My dad has the peacocks. He's the president. We have peacocks. I believe that you have to treat them... Mayor Mancino: Okay. Appreciate your comments. Thank you. A motion please. Councilman Senn: Move to table until next meeting. Staff come back with a staff assessment and get notification out to the neighbors so they have adequate time to comment if they'd like. Kate Aanenson: Just clarification. Just to make sure we've given neighbors appropriate time and you want to do a site inspection and make sure it's in compliance? Mayor Mancino: And if you could talk a little bit about it being, is it going to be that much closer to the neighbors and. Kate Aanenson: We'll check the tree situation, sure. Mayor Mancino: A second please. Councilman Engel: Second. Councilman Senn moved, Councilman Engel seconded to table an amendment to the Stipulation Agreement for Halla Nursery until the next City Council meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried. AMENDMENT TO THE ENTIRE 2020 CHANHASSEN COMPREHENSIVE PLAN~ INCLUDING LAND USE~ HOUSING~ TRANSPORTATION~ PARK AND RECREATION~ NATURAL RESOURCES~ SEWER AND WATER. Public Present: Name Address Kevin Cristo Jill Shipley 940 Saddlebrook Curve 261 Eastwood Court City Council Meeting - September 14, 1998 Janet Dingle Linda Jansen 9351 Foxford Road 240 Eastwood Court Mayor Mancino: Just so everyone knows our agenda tonight. Kate and Bob are going to present to us a lot about the comprehensive plan. We will take comments from the public and then we will kind of listen to the public and come back on October 12th for the last and final hearing. So tonight is really for public input and so that we can listen to what you have to say tonight and have a good presentation. Thank you. And with that. Kate Aanenson: Thank you. Just to give you some historical background. We started this process back on May 19th, 1997 when we had a kick-off meeting on the comprehensive plan. We had that up at the Rec Center and at that meeting, since that time there's been a series of meeting of the Planning Commission, Park and Rec and certainly the City Council. There's also been numerous articles in the Chan Villager and in our local newsletter apprising people of meeting dates and giving them an opportunity to comment. The legislature mandated that, to the Met Council that we have to have a comprehensive plan by the end of the year 1998 and we are trying to meet that goal. Certainly we can ask for an extension but we believe we can accomplish that and also we would like to try to meet that deadline and making sure that we're following through in our own minds. Getting the readback from the Council, the direction that we're going. On April 22nd we did have a town meeting on the draft plan. There were approximately 80 people in attendance and there was many different questions about some of the policies but I don't think there was any clear consensus that people had a concern on any policy direction at that time. We know one of the issues was the library board and there's still concern about the priority. The capital investment and we'll talk about that a little bit later but they certainly want to see that a higher priority. There was some consensus from the Planning Commission on that. The Planning Commission held two public hearings. The first one on June 17th and a subsequent one on September 2nd and between that they had two work sessions with the council to discuss a couple of issues that they had. Specifically a vision statement, transportation, school district needs and an amphitheater site. Just to be clear again what the comprehensive plan is, and that's the city's growth document and the vision for the future. As the Mayor indicated, the different elements, we're going to spend some time kind of hitting the high points on those but before we do that I just want to apprise the council that we did work with a consultant on the sewer and water plan and that is a text amendment. There's a more detailed part of that going forward but what's in your document and the draft document really is for the lay person. Someone that wants to know the broad brush what the policies are. But to send it up to the Met Council, there is the more technical report going with that. We put the more technical part of the transportation in the comp plan and the Planning Commission struggled with the language and the complexity of it and we were in concurrence so Bob did rewrite that and made that much more user friendly and that is a separate attachment that you have tonight and we'll be sharing that back with the planning commission. We think it made sense. It was definitely very technical so I think it makes a little more sense so we did use two consultants. Again, Bonestroo did the sewer and water, who does the majority of the sewer and water plan, and we did collaborate with the county using SRF and we think that made a lot of sense. Chaska also uses them so we're all going in the same direction and we have done that in the past. Most recently on the Eastern Carver County Transportation Plan. So we think that made a lot of sense. The storm water management plan is also an element of the comprehensive plan. We were ahead and did that a number of years ago so while it's not part of this at this time, it will be going forward with this document but it's already been adopted by the City Council so we're not going through that. It is in the text itself when we talk about natural resources, storm water management plan and then the sewer and water but we didn't attach that because of the volume and the technical part of that so it's in the kind of laymen's format in the plan itself. The other thing that I just want to apprise you of. We have put some of the correspondence and you've received it before regarding the MUSA staging. Some of the property City Council Meeting - September 14, 1998 owners that were concerned about timing and what that means for their property and having to wait until ultimate buildout, the year 2020. We are following.., so our goals are going to be consistent with theirs. We'll go through that and what that means too. But also just to remind you that as the council adopts this plan, there are some rezonings that will have to take place and that's one of the things that the law says now is your zoning mapping, comprehensive plan has to be consistent and we do have a few areas that it's not. One of those is the Schroeder property on the old St. Hubert's, up on the comer. The other is the commercial center at Highway 7.7 and 41 and then the other would be the BF district where we've looked at doing industrial or office down in that area and some kind of quasi commercial down in that area and that's kind of been an issue that we've always had at the work session but we need to address that too so part of the timing issue that we're looking at, we want to come back and solve some of those problems so if we put it towards the end of the year, we want to make sure that we're in compliance so what we may be tracking those through the Planning Commission as we're working. Kind of do a due process, just to make sure you're aware of that. What we'd like to do now, Bob and I will kind of just go through the comp plan and kind of give you the salient points. Then we'd like to go back and share with you the comments that the planning commission and how we addressed those and some of the other comments we got from the school district and then also the library. Then how we addressed those. So just going through the land use, which is kind of the bread and butter of the document. What we did is, the Highway 5 corridor study guided kind of the main thread of the community and that set up the framework for the first look at kind of review of the zoning and then we did the Bluff Creek corridor study and everything south of Lyman was given a 1995 study area that the Highway 5 corridor left out. It did address was the intersection of TH 5 and 41, which was also given a study area. So we addressed most of those study areas in 1981 when we last adopted the, excuse me, 1991 when we last adopted the comprehensive plan. We said we'd go back and study where addressed. In addition there was a lot of property south of Lyman that was left unguided. White on a map is not an appropriate land use. So and we had the right form in looking at the Bluff Creek plan to really guide the rest of the community and we felt we did a good job meeting with those neighbors and working with them and trying to be fiscally responsible. Saying is this the right mix and also looking at the threshold of land to say is this the right, is this what the land can sustain. So really the land uses have been in place a couple of years so what we did is took those back and then turned it into a staging plan and really that's what this land use document addresses is the staging and how does that relate to the city's ability to finance that. Because we felt the land uses were in place so certainly the planning commission had questions, just as you do. Were those reasonable and did we look at the fiscal impact which we'll talk about too. So as I stated, we did, this does relate to the metropolitan 2040 framework and we did make sure that we're consistent with metro wide policies on that. So if you turn to the page 4, which has the charts in there, you can see we did a comparison of 1980, 1991 and 2020. Comparison of the different land uses. And I just wanted to point out for comparison purposes, we've got the GIS system now which is able to more accurately generate the different land uses which we believe really assisted us and able to carry that forward and looking at the tax implications and the like. But you can see there was a lot of property that was left vacant but now that's taken out because it has been guided. So those percentages have been moved around so everything now has a land use designation, which is what we need to do. Then we're also able to more accurately say what is undevelopable. What is a lake. What is a river and wetlands and those sort of things so we believe that we've done a good job there. The city is going to be predominantly residential. We're going to be ultimately 57% residential. And then in the ultimate buildout, what you look at as far as where the housing stock's going to be, 75% of the ultimate housing stock is going to be inside the current MUSA. So what that tells you is while we've got a lot of vacant land south of Lyman, going towards Pioneer, the sustainability of that, the ability to put density on there isn't there because of the slopes and the wetlands and the like so it's going to be still inside what is now the current MUSA. Just another interesting fact to share with you on page 7 where we did a real thorough job City Council Meeting - September 14, 1998 of inventorying all the businesses. There's 8,000 jobs currently in the community. Which there's 470 businesses. Of that 185 are home based. 40%. We believe this number will increase. Mayor Mancino: I was amazed to see that there's a 1 to 1 ratio between dwelling units and employees... Kate Aanenson: Right, and a lot of communities look at that engaging viability of their community. Having jobs and that three legged stool that jobs create. Home created jobs, jobs in commercial business and that whole interdependence on each other so to be... that makes good sense too. The other thing on the agricultural policy which I want to address and the land use is that the metropolitan 2040 framework states that inside this metro area where we will be built out by the year 2020 and that's what their staging plan calls for. We do not provide for a purely agricultural zone. While we support agriculture, we believe that the rest of the county, the greater Carver County area is where it should be preserved. We would rather have those people come where there's urban services here rather than leap frog out into Carver County and that's again consistent with the metropolitan framework. The other thing I wanted to point, we've got the two maps that show the ultimate land use designation and staging framework and that statement framework is consistent with the information we provided for you on the land use section, Chapter 1 on page 12 and 13 where we've given you the different acreages and densities we'll be taking in in a five year increments. So in the year 2000, how much land will you be taking in. 2005, 2010, 2015. And again we put the staging in the map where we already have an infrastructure investment in place, such as the next area we'd be bringing in would be TH 5 and 41. That's already being served by the infrastructure of the upper Bluff Creek. It's just a matter of extending those lines. Mayor Mancino: ...the Arboretum. Kate Aanenson: Correct. That's a good point, yes. We've left them out in the text until such time that they petition the Arboretum, Minnewashta Regional Park and Camp Tanadoona. Both bringing in a lot of acreage. In the text we said until such time that they petition. We don't want to encourage development but we'd just as soon, they've got the service that they need and until such time that they petition, we would just leave them the way they are. And then just following along with, and Bob will talk about this a little bit more on the sewer and water but then the next area we would bring in would be the area south of Lyman and again that's where it can be served by the Upper Bluff Creek and that's, that lift station is on the Degler property south and it would serve that area on that side of the Bluff Creek. And again that's consistent with not having to do a capital investment to recapture the cost we've already put there so again we did our staging plan based on further build out of that. Sewer and water and making best use of the resources and again following transportation. Assuming the widening of Highway 5. Again, that was the first area along TH 5 to expand the MUSA. With that, I think that's kind of the salient points. Again there were some issues at the Planning Commission and we did meet with a lot of people regarding timing. That was an issue and sitting down and explaining to people why we went with the direction that we did. I think that we educated a lot of people and we seemed to get, not everybody.., understood the rationale behind that. Mayor Mancino: I'm assuming that 2005 is the Lyman and 2010, the Lyman Boulevard will be upgraded in that time period too? Bob Generous: That's the assumption we made too. Kate Aanenson: That's the assumption, right. Exactly. 10 City Council Meeting - September 14, 1998 Mayor Mancino: So infrastructure includes transportation. Kate Aanenson: Correct. And that'd be a decision that we'll have to look at as we get to those stages. Do we have the structure in place to make that. We will have the sewer and water but the transportation... Mayor Mancino: Is it okay if we ask, do you mind asking a few questions? I'm sorry, if you would prefer to just present everything and have us ask. Kate Aanenson: No, that's fine. Mayor Mancino: I'm also assuming the 2005 where I'm seeing industrial office, industrial... That area in the western part, south of Lyman is also coming on line so as we figure you've done a lot of calculations Bob to show that office industrial, we develop about 50 acres per year. That has been what we have been doing. Bob Generous: That's been our historical consumption. Mayor Mancino: So that by the year 2005 is when we'll have need for additional? And that's when this area south of Lyman comes in, right at that point? Kate Aanenson: It may take a number of years to get the utilities down there but. Bob Generous: And there is a little lead time that we've left in so that, try to stabilize prices. For land value. Kate Aanenson: That's a good point. That was part of the assumption that we looked at too. if you restrict the amount of available land, it can also artificially inflate the prices so we're trying to make sure that we're, so this is our best estimate assuming certain absorption rates today. Where we're going with that and that was built into some assumptions but we'll certainly have to re-examine that. Okay, i'll let Bob talk about the housing aspect then. Bob Generous: And i'll make this short. The housing element is built off of the land use element. We used, we had the data for the available land, vacant land that we have out of there. The Bluff Creek study we were able to take out the non-developable areas so we came up with the net value for developable, residential properties. The housing element, as we're proposing the amendment is really to encourage diversity and life cycle housing within the community. Our projections show that we'll have approximately 2/3 single family housing and 1/3 multi-family housing of some type, including townhouses, apartments and non traditional single family homes. That was consistent with what we did as part of the Livable Community Act and the numbers worked out when we calculate, project into the future. In making our projections, for single family residential we assume 15 % right-of-way. Historically we're.., that number and there's one of the...is what we base that out of. And 30% open space. Either parks or wetlands or areas that we didn't know what the net land area was. For multi-family we assume 10% right-of-way because generally you don't have as much roadway to serve them. You have larger parcels. And then again 30% open space. In calculating density, for single family residential we did a range. Primarily in the existing MUSA area we estimated that continued historical pattern and be about 1.8 dwelling units per net acre. For the MUSA expansion area we were looking at increasing the net density through use of different development techniques, 2.42. That's how we came to an average overall density of 3.3 including multi family, single family and the large lot developments that we have existing in place. 11 City Council Meeting - September 14, 1998 Mayor Mancino: That's gross density? Bob Generous: Those are net density. Mayor Mancino: Net density? The 3.3 is net? Bob Generous: Yes. For multi family developments for medium density, we estimated 6 dwelling units per net acre. And for high density, 10 dwelling units per net acre. With that we came to, we anticipate approximately 14,000 dwelling units at build out. That comes to about 35,000-36,000 residents and around 2020. The existing, or the 1991 comprehensive plan had good policies and goals and we maintained a majority of them. Within this housing element we are proposing the addition of five new policies. One of those is to provide density bonuses for the provision of affordable housing. We suggested 25%. That seems to be a number that people can live with. You might want to take that out as previously I believe one of the council members mentioned that. In some cases we might want to go over. In other cases it might not be reasonable. But as it is it has 25%. We want to encourage development at the upper end of the density ranges. Right now our land use, residential land use densities provide a range of housing in that and we'd like to encourage people to go towards the higher end of that. We'd also like to promote, added a policy to promote the mixing of housing densities. Again this lead backs to our housing diversity and life cycle housing goals and within, a good example of that would be the Walnut Grove development which has three different housing types within one project and we believe that it helps to create a more attractive neighborhood and also to meet some of our housing goals. A fourth policy was that we would agree to participate in implementation of the Livable Communities Act. This was as it was originally adopted in that the city would encourage life cycle housing and we'd attempt to provide affordable housing as one of the life cycle mixes. Then finally we've added a policy that we would integrate life cycle housing throughout the community. We don't believe we'd like to create any concentration of either affordable or high density residential within any one spot and by mixing it we have a healthier community and neighborhood. With that, those are the high points of the housing element and I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have. Mayor Mancino: I have a couple. And one if you could come back to it...but when I read your policies, the 25% bonus of density for affordable.., scenarios to show us what that would be and are you talking about both in low density, medium density and high density? It would be. Bob Generous: The recommendation would be in any density. Mayor Mancino: In any density, okay. Bob Generous: However we don't, after discussion with some builders we don't believe that at the low density that it will work to get affordable units. Potentially in medium and high densities. They said well that's incentive for them to add within the medium density they could go, instead of having 8 units as a cap they could go up to 10 if those additional 2 units. Kate Aanenson: The Planning Commission asked the same question so we did call and talk to some developers to get some feedback on that. Actually we do have in our zoning ordinance that in place right now which has never been used. 12 City Council Meeting - September 14, 1998 Bob Generous: Yeah, because the comp plan, it's prohibitive because the comp plan had a maximum density. Kate Aanenson: The zoning ordinance said you could have a 25% but the comprehensive plan had a cap. So that's what we're saying, exactly. Mayor Mancino: At odds with each other, thank you. The other thing that would be helpful for me to understand is, I understand the mix of housing densities within a project. It's great. I think that what we've done in Walnut Grove is a very good way to do it. I would like to just make sure that when a perspective buyers come in and they're doing their due diligence to see what is the land adjacent to them. You know how it will be developed, that there is a way to communicate, if there's a mix of densities so if they look at our land use map and see that it's low density, and all of a sudden we're getting into a PUD and doing mixed densities, how do we do that? How do we communicate to a perspective property owners in the city what's going to be next to them? So, and again. Kate Aanenson: Yeah, I understand what you're saying but I think with Walnut Grove for example, I think the issue on that, we did increase the density. What we did is we mixed it a little bit. Mayor Mancino: Exactly... Kate Aanenson: ... so it was an education thing. So I understand what your issue is and how we communicate that but we'll see what we can do. Mayor Mancino: Just something.., around that. That would I think would be helpful.., exactly what they had next to them. Any other questions? Councilman Senn? Councilman Senn: Kate, one thing in terms of your programming out as it relates to the MUSA line and tying that back to housing. I know basically that we have no high density programmed at all in 2000, 2005, or 2010 and don't have any high density in fact coming in until the 2015. How do we, effectively how do we do that and still.., you're talking about as it relates to more higher density and affordable housing and all that sort of thing. If we don't have any high density. Kate Aanenson: That's a good question. We did give that low and medium and the reason we did that, if you look at again the sustainability of that area. And that's where we looked at doing the density transfers when we actually compressed some of that. That's why we left it that way. We put high, it just wouldn't work. The sustainability. We did look at it on Mr. Zwiers property, higher density where you've got reclamation of a gravel pit. That would be an area that it would work but again we were looking, this was driven out of the natural resource plan. The land use recommendations and at that point that's kind of what the direction we were going. Certainly we think there's an opportunity, if someone came in with a plan that worked, that's kind of what we said with the commercial too. We didn't want to liberally apply commercial but if someone came in with a mixed use project, that might be something that, if it makes sense and it works, that we would consider that under a PUD. And I think that's the same approach we looked here with the wetlands and Bluff Creek going through a lot of this area and 212. Just the topography there didn't seem to work. But I think if you compressed, if someone did a transfer out, then you may end up with a higher number of units per acre. But we didn't want to start at that end. 13 City Council Meeting - September 14, 1998 Mayor Mancino: ... reading through it on the new construction. Tenant space. Tenant base subsidy. Minnesota Housing Finance Agency and some of the action steps that we'll be taking was very helpful. Thank you. Kate Aanenson: Under the natural resources. This element is new from our 1991. It's kind of wrapped in a couple other places but we pulled it out as a separate and what this is, this is where we're got the storm water kind of again and a more user friendly discussion and then pretty much what the environmental resource coordinator does, forestry. So what we did is took an inventory of our natural resources, mostly lakes and wetlands and trees and talked about the policies. What we're going to do to protect that resource that we have. The city does have four natural environmental lakes and seven recreational lakes and certainly water quality is a community asset and an ongoing issue. As you can see by people that are concerned about the quality of water on their lakes and we've been doing some projects so that's something that I think people that make a commitment to live in Chanhassen are concerned about and certainly we want to address. The other is the wetlands which the city adopted the Wetland Conservation Act in 1992 but we've been regulating wetlands since 1980 and certainly that's, that whole area's gone a direction that we've been again out ahead of and we want to continue work to preserve what we have and again is an asset to the community and protecting wetlands and protecting the lakes. The other issue that this chapter addresses is ground water protection. And that's getting to be a bigger issue. Wellhead in the metro area and the legislature is looking at it. The Met Council's looking at some policies as far as growth management and what that has to do with wells so this is our approach and our policy on that. Then the other thing would just be the wildlife and the tree cover and the environmental commission. There's a lot in education on that area and we are looking at proposing some ordinances. We do have a tree protection ordinance that went through a couple different evolutions but I think we're on track now with trying to preserve that. Certainly we recognize development. Trees are going to be lost but certainly our goal is to minimize that and then replant and do a good job with that. So there are some policies that support that but that's really all I had to say on that unless there were questions. Mayor Mancino: I'd just like to add that I see in this area that we have some plans to begin working on and I think I wrote down one of them. The ground water protection plan that's in here. Forestry management plan. The wildlife habitat preservation plan. Comprehensive wetlands and regional plans. We have a lot to do or does it start in '99? Kate Aanenson: Yes. Mayor Mancino: Plus the farmers market. Kate Aanenson: Yeah. That'd be number one. Yes. Mayor Mancino: Made us all very aware of some of the natural resource plans that we'll be working on in the next year or so. It'd be great...come back to us and let us know your '99 goals on getting those plans started and completed. Kate Aanenson: One of the goals that we have in there is doing inventorying all the wetlands and the management plan because as we've improved all these wetlands, the big issue is the management plan for storm water ponds and the like and so that's something that actually we put all that data base together this summer so there is some ongoing issues. There's a lot of work in this section that kind of goes unnoticed but it's why people live here. 14 City Council Meeting - September 14, 1998 Mayor Mancino: And we still quantified in the different areas. 50% we should strive for 50% tree cover. Our canopy coverage in residential and 25% in business districts and that really helps us have that goal. A very measurable goal. Moving on. Kate Aanenson: The next section would be parks and open space. The first time this went to the planning commission they felt that it was missing an implementation. A broader vision so we sent it back to the Park and Recreation Commission and asked them to kind of look long term where they see. You know they just finished their bonding for the parks and trails and they did, they want to take that further but they did and I think the planning commission was pretty pleased with that and that's on page 7. Kind of looking at some of that, what they would like to see. Again, that would have to be implemented into another step but that's something that they will be probably putting forward as far as their goals but the Planning Commission felt pretty strong about what they were doing there. So was happy with that. And one of the things that the planning commission had, that we'll talk about later too is the amphitheater. There was some strong support for that. That issue. What this attempts to do is demonstrate what we have in place right now, the acreage. Certainly we have some regional facilities, including the Arboretum and the national wildlife area which is along the Minnesota River. But we also have some nice, the Bluff Creek corridor, Camp Tanadoona. We've got some nice assets that kind of anchor this community and create some nice corridors. The other thing is we've got some strong community and neighborhood parks that provide a lot of different types of recreational opportunities and I think what's neat, what's happened more recently as we've done these developments, we've just been able to preserve open space. It doesn't have to be confined. It just can be open space and that's the direction that I think has been a real positive in preserving areas to be left in perpetuity .... this is inventory of what we have out there, but it also has a vision statement and also addresses that as development occurs, what do we need? What are the demands and the service levels and how much acreage we need to be looking at out into the future. Mayor Mancino: Kate, I'm assuming that on page 7, under the brain storming that the park and rec did on issues that...they're going to work on... That they would like the City Council to give some input into prioritizing that? Kate Aanenson: Sure. Mayor Mancino: Okay. That was my question. There was no 1, 2, 3, or 4 so I didn't know. Kate Aanenson: No, this is just their wish and that they, the planning commission felt like that was an element that was missing in the park. There wasn't a long term kind of vision. The rest of it they felt the rest of the elements spoke to the future and where they were going and the only thing that spoke to the future is just a strictly an assessment of acreage of parkland needed and they felt that was a little short sighted. Mayor Mancino: ...thank you. Bob Generous: Transportation. This element starts.., it comes out with a goal to provide a multi-mode of transportation system within the community and then it has policies. We carried over a lot of the policies from the '91 plan. However, we have expanded on transit use and pedestrian and bicycles. Basically we'd like to connect the entire community so that you don't have to drive to get someplace. It's reinforced in the parks and open space element where we're talking about trails but we want to encourage that as part of our review and development. That's one of the issues that we address. And so those are under transit and pedestrian and bicycles. On page 2 and 3 of the element. Basically transportation element had to follow 15 City Council Meeting - September 14, 1998 guidelines established by the Met Council. You're assessed what your transportation system is and then you project, based on your land uses, what the traffic will be and look at the deficiencies and the improvements that would be necessary. As part of our contract with the SRF in doing this portion of the transportation study, in the context of the regional study, we had them look at our more local roadway system. The collector and arterial roads in addition to the state highway system. Then also we requested that they look at development with and without the 212 corridor so we could see what are the impacts to the local system. Local, city and county roadway systems. From that we were able to go through a list of existing transportation issues and deficiencies. We looked at intersection and access deficiencies and there's a whole list of those. Figure 4 is a graphic representation that shows what is deficient in our roadway system. We looked at roadway capacity and alignment issues and basically these are under sized roads for the amount of growth that has taken place and that will taken place in the future. Then we looked at jurisdictional continuity. In the City of Chanhassen we may have roads that meet capacity requirements but as soon as they hit the county line, they drop down to two lane, rural section with poor sight distances and things like that so they can't function as a regional roadway. Smaller regional roadway system so we had to point those issues out. There are a number of roadway improvements that would need to be done. On page 11, let's see of the old one. That's on page 12 and 13. There's a comparison of the improvements that would be required. The first one looks at if212 is not constructed by 2020. There is a list of 11 projects that would need to be done to try to maintain an adequate roadway system. If 212 is built by then, the list is reduced to 8 and of that, one of them is Highway 101 which reduces the amount of four laning that would be necessary. What the study also showed is that traffic in the future will start changing direction. Historically it's been east to west from the suburbs into Minneapolis. In the future it would be intercommunity, north and south between suburbs and that will continue as the area continues to grow. The biggest portion of this is our transportation, our future functional classification system. That guides the type of roadways that the city will need in the future. A lot of our roadway systems are being upgraded from collector or minor arterials to major arterials. There are only two principle arterials projected in the future. Highway 7 and future 212 corridor. We have a lot of arterials that provide intercommunity. Lyman Boulevard. Pioneer. 41. Highway 101. And so that's really the guide that we're looking at for development in the future. It will take us to build out and provided all the system improvements are made, we should have an adequate transportation system in the city of Chanhassen. We also looked at some of the local street improvement connections as part of our comp plan we're looking at connecting the community. There are roadways that are disconnected if you will. Tanadoona Drive, Crimson Bay Road is one area. The Carver Beach, the whole area does not meet standards and it could become an issue in the future. Nez Perce, Pleasant View Road. Melody Hill connection between Chaska Road and Murray Hill. Timberwood Drive and Stone Creek Court and finally Kiowa Trail and Springfield Drive. As we review future developments and try to make these connections, but these past developments that aren't quite connected and so we wanted to stay within the comprehensive plan that sometime we'd like to bring these neighborhoods together. With that I'd like to, I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have. Councilman Mason: I would just like to add that some of us in Carver Beach kind of like it the way it is. Mayor Mancino: I think we could bring in quite a few people that would react to the other way too. Councilman Mason: Yeah, I suspect. Kate Aanenson: A program in the capital improvement plan. We'll pulling it out as a system possible deficiency. Bob Generous: Under local. 16 City Council Meeting - September 14, 1998 Mayor Mancino: We'd have a few million people in here. Bob Generous: ...upgrading those roadways. Mayor Mancino: Yeah, I was going to say. I think some of those neighborhoods feel they're connected so. Councilman Senn: But since we can't get the trail, the bridge across the lake is impossible because the infrastructure isn't in place on the other side to accept traffic, is that the deal? Bob Generous: Something like that. Councilman Senn: Oh, okay. Mayor Mancino: ...look at 212 and the design, etc. Any other questions for Bob? Do you want to go ahead and... ? Bob Generous: The sewer and water policy plans. Basically they're a summary of the technical report that was prepared by the consulting engineer. It describes the existing system. It shows that in the future we can have a sewer and water system that is, services the needs of the entire community. Basically to summarize what, there's two maps that come out of this. One is the trunk sanitary sewer system. It shows us how we can serve the entire community. A lot of our capital programming was based on using the data that was... You'd have to have a wider distribution system to account for all the water distribution system to account for all the trunk watermain that would be required to serve the entire community. Again, capital improvement investment plan goes back to that and tries to link those in an efficient and logical manner to serve the entire community at build out. I don't really have a lot to say on sewer and water. It points out where we are and where we're going but it's the capital investment plan that is the key to tying this all together and that space goes back to the land use and phasing plan that are proposed as part of the comprehensive plan. Wherever possible we try to incorporate sewer and water and road projects in one year time frame so that we can get some efficiencies out of the development facilities. We pointed out potential funding sources. It's a whole alphabet soup of potential funding for any one project. The primary source would be either a 429 project, which is something that the city assesses back or development improvements. But it's just a guide to show, give the community a glimpse of what it will take to build out the city and provide the infrastructure necessary at the local level. We've included Highway 212 from any consideration in that or upgrading to Highway 41. We did add Highway 5 because of the frontage road portion of that project. That that will be done in the next 3 years. Again, we're looking at this as a guide plan. The only true capital improvement program you have is the one that's adopted annually and it's the current's year budget. But this helps to provide some guidance to the city and are we serving it and if we want to continue growth as we're projecting in the comp plan, are we following those stages? Mayor Mancino: And if we don't have the growth, obviously we'll change what we're doing. Kate Aanenson: Again, this is intended to accomplish what we show on the land use to take us out to the year 2020. Mayor Mancino: Any questions? 17 City Council Meeting - September 14, 1998 Kate Aanenson: That pretty much takes us through the comprehensive plan itself. What I'd like to do now is, through the hearing process, the comments that we've got and then how we've addressed them and this will just take a few minutes but these are the proposals. The issues that were brought to our attention have either been addressed or they're articulated in a condition at the end of the report. So I'm on page 3 of the cover memo report. The Planning Commission asked at the beginning of the land use section to, for those people that don't have the Highway 5 corridor study, which again looked at the thread of the community of Highway 5 and really the core commercial area. I wanted a vision statement from that. They also wanted one from the storm water management plan and also the Bluff Creek natural resources plan. So as shown in this, we would recommend adopting that and putting it right in the beginning on page 3 of the, or actually page 1 of the land use section. Again, just to give everybody an idea, if anybody reading this context of thinking that's taken place to get us to that point. Since 1981 these are three significant documents adopted by the city that have influenced this development. Then the other we've addressed on page 4 is the fiscal impact. The planning commission, in meeting with the city council wrestled with, Bob's kind of explained to you the proportionality of land uses. Have we done a good job of looking at how we're going to pay for, as we've laid out for you, the 20 year capital improvements. Are we being fiscally responsible? We can go through this in more detail if you want later but and what we put together here we think that we've demonstrated that we have. And again just an editorial comment on the vision and the work that went into this is, part of the vision of what people want to live in and what we've heard through the Bluff Creek, the Highway 5. They want, the residents wanted a core commercial. They didn't want strip commercial. They want us to have a sustainable development being sensitive to those fragile areas and looking at the land use so we think, in putting together the land uses and hearing what the residents want as we went through those documents, we thought that the vision and the land uses seem to make sense so we've kind of like taken that tact. That this reinforces that it is also being fiscally responsible to pay for the growth of it. So we can go through that in more detail if you want later. The other issue that was brought to our attention was District 112, in looking at the numbers they felt like they need to provide three more school sites. The only thing that we would be putting in the text is just a note that says that three sites, they wanted sites, two at 40 acres for an elementary and one at 80 acres. So we provided some available sites and then we're just going to make a note that these are possible sites. And we looked again at areas that were on collectors that had good access, and looking long term where they need to be in relation to growth and centers. It's up to the, it's incumbent upon the school district to acquire those and we've put that in the text too. That the city is not proposing to acquire these properties at any time. At this time, excuse me, and that the underlying land use is still in place but we're just making a note that these would be possible sites and it's really also to put people on notice that they're looking at property. Can you tell me what else might happen there? Yeah, yeah. We've identified this as a possible school site. You might want to check with the school district to see where they are on the planning process so that's how that entails. The amphitheater brought a lot of discussion from the planning commission. Again, the park commission put it in their vision statement but there was some concern that would that be brought sooner. We've identified two sites. One is in the comprehensive plan as a Carver County Regional Park at Minnewashta. They have an amphitheater identified so we could partner with them at possibly a site there. And the other would be the property at TH 5 and 41, and that would be possibly if the Arboretum ever wanted to do something in conjunction. That might be a possible opportunity. Again, you're putting it on a site, on a state highway where there's good access. Mayor Mancino: Northwest comer. Kate Aanenson: Correct. Northwest comer. Again, kind of where there's not a lot of people nearby but we can provide good access. And that would be amended and we'd recommend putting that comp plan under the open space, under park and recreation and just identifying that. Again, putting that on notice for 18 City Council Meeting - September 14, 1998 people so they would know that's a possible, potential site. Community facilities. What we want to expand there is to say that the city works with other jurisdictions to combine resources, including the city, county, Southwest Metro Transit, and the school districts to collaborate and coordinate on mutual interests such as the library, public works. And I need to make sure, it's not clearly said in here but the Planning Commission did want to give the library a higher priority and it was left off of the conditions. That should be added as a condition number 9. These are recommendations that are being brought forward and that was that the Planning Commission wanted to see the library be given a higher priority. Right now it's in the capital improvement plan as 2005. They did ask the library board to come back and make a presentation. After that presentation they recommended that that be given higher priority and made that recommendation to the Council to consider that. So that's where that lies. Transportation. Mayor Mancino: Excuse me, did they say how much higher priority or anything? Or just a higher priority? Kate Aanenson: They thought 2005 was too far out. As soon as possible. Bob Generous: They assumed 2000 would be... $2.5 million was the number they provided. Mayor Mancino: Oh, that they're going to provide? Kate Aanenson: No, no, no, no. Bob Generous: That they wanted to put in there. Mayor Mancino: Boy, ask for something and bring the money and it's easy. Kate Aanenson: But, I apologize. That wasn't in there. It was my intent but it's kind of...Under transportation. We kind of went through that and the planning commission was concerned that it was very technical. We've kind of showed you what we've done on that. And then the other was that they brought up was Highway 5. Should we make that a principle arterial? We went through the rationale on that and really, because it's being designated by the metro wide system, it's pretty difficult to do and we'll let stand. But we've articulated all those issues and put those forward in, eight and what I'm recommending is that you add number 9. That the library be given a higher priority than the year 2005. So with that, any other questions we'd be. Mayor Mancino: I just have a couple and then we'll open it to public unless any other council member does. Number one. We are going to be revisiting this, from what you said in your kind of executive summary, every 5 years. Was it when you hoped to, like should we do a formal? Kate Aanenson: Yes. Yeah. Every 5 years we're going to reassess. What is our absorption rate? Where are we? Correct. That's one recommendation. But certainly the capital improvement plan we'll be looking at every year. Mayor Mancino: Yeah, understand. Bob, I have a question for you. Just so I'm, I've got it in my head correctly. On page 18, Chapter 2 under Housing. On the left hand column, second paragraph. You had as of January, 1997 we have 2,500 acres of undevelopable land. 360 acres of medium density and 96 acres of high density. Is that within the MUSA line right now? I just want to make sure that I understood that's within our existing MUSA? We still have that much land? 19 City Council Meeting - September 14, 1998 Bob Generous: No, that would be total. Mayor Mancino: That's total, okay. And then I had one other question for you and I think it's from your report. Six of your report in the first paragraph. It talks about approximate net acres of commercial, industrial land in the existing MUSA line as 457 acres, but then you took out 85 acres so we have 368 acres right now in our existing MUSA that's office/industrial that has not been built out? Bob Generous: Correct. Kate Aanenson: That's a growth number too. Bob Generous: No, that's the net number. We did take out. It's back from. Mayor Mancino: We have quite a few acres still for office industrial within our existing MUSA line. And if we go... I just want to make sure that I. Bob Generous: That's where we, then we built in the little overlap so we don't get too low. Until, if you look at the capacity or the conjunction analysis in 2015 we'll run out of commercial land because we need the stuff down on the existing 212 corridor to come in .... to meet the posted demand estimates. Kate Aanenson: We did rearrange our staging plan because originally we had kind of that southern area along 212 coming in last but we looked at predominantly large lot, assuming that that'd probably be the least likely to develop so we kind of switched 215 and 220 and saying we're bringing that southern area in which would be Mr. Zwiers. Some of that down there in 215 instead of 220. That that does have more development potential besides just the residential that would be in the area immediately north as you're looking at it. Mayor Mancino: The last thing, I also want to make sure that I understand on page 11... under policy. Land use policy. On the third bullet point down. That Chanhassen will continue to encourage the location of commercial usage inthe central business district. Commercial development outside ofthe central business district.., will be minimized until the.., completed. So that means our downtown, the Villages on the Pond, that whole area is where we're focused on right now developing? Kate Aanenson: Right. What we're saying is we get pressure right now to move some of those, maybe as a mini-core. We do have some support commercial going in some large industrial areas which you think makes sense but what we're saying is that we want our commercial core to be in the downtown area. And when that's, you've got to have some, I don't think it's going to be totally built up but we want to make sure that we're not taking away the energy of what's happening down there before we go somewhere else with some commercial development. Whether it be along Highway 5 or the future 212. Exactly, 212. Exactly. Mayor Mancino: I mean we don't want to see it down there... Bob Generous: Exactly. That's also a phasing issue. They can't develop until they get the infrastructure in place. Kate Aanenson: Except for the BF district which is one we have to resolve which we've pointed out. 20 City Council Meeting - September 14, 1998 Mayor Mancino: ...use area down off TH 101, north of 212. Isn't that in the MUSA at this point? Kate Aanenson: Yes, and that's one of those neighborhood business. I'm saying that there is some support, there is a few of those but those, and that's a good point. We did identify that. We spelled out in this what constituted neighborhood commercial because that was ambiguous in the past so we did identify what is neighborhood and what scale that should be so someone doesn't come in with a 60,000 square foot grocery store and call it the neighborhood business. And I know that's come up before with the council on issues so we identified what constitutes a neighborhood. Mayor Mancino: So we won't get the big boxes around the 212 and take away from our downtown, which we obviously don't want to do and I want to be very clear about that in our comprehensive plan. So that those people know that. Anyone else have any questions? Anyone like to come up and address the City Council? Give us your comments. Whatever you'd like to ask about or just give us comments. We'd appreciate it very much. State your name and address. Kevin Cristo: I'm Kevin Cristo, 940 Saddlebrook Curve in Chanhassen. I wanted to second the Planning Commission's comments about the library. I know that there's some, there's a rec center and a golf course on the master plan but I would, I know we've got a lot of good recreation in this area. I like recreation and I think we should have it but I think the library we have right now is not as good as it should be and definitely like to see that moved up in priority. Mayor Mancino: Thank you. Thank you very much. Jill Shipley: I'm Jill Shipley, 261 Eastwood Court in Chanhassen and I represent the Carver County Library Board. I thank you for your remarks. I just want to reinforce our concern also. I appreciate the comments that the Planning Commission made but I want to make sure that you all hear it from me as well. We are extremely concerned about the library. We definitely want to be looking at a date earlier than the year 2005 and I think we need to be seriously considering more money than the $1.5 million expansion to City Hall. Did you know that there are 10,864 Chanhassen residents with Chanhassen addresses that have library cards? Now if you live in the northern part of the city, like say along Galpin Boulevard you have an Excelsior address. If you have a library card, you're not counted in that number. If you're a parent of small children, my guess is that the parent has a library card but the small children don't use it and just the mom presents the card. So really the number of people who are using the library is greater than that number. Did you also know that our last month's figures showed that 35 people per hour are traveling through that library and making use of it. Now it wasn't even a year ago that I told you the figure was 30 people an hour. That we had hit 30. Well now we're at 35 based on the last month's figures. So we're showing an increase of over 10% just over the previous year. The library is an extremely important component of our community and we need to be addressing it and providing the services that our residents demand and deserve. What we would like to see is at least a facility of 15,000 square feet. We could be doing a city library comparable to any other city library in the area. Or we could expand our train of thought and think of an area library as well. An example for the area libraries would be the Ridgedale library, the Southdale library, Brookdale library in Hennepin County. And if you think about them, all of those libraries are built in areas of strong retail development where you've got a Target. Where you've got a Byerly's. This makes sense. Studies have shown that the best libraries exist in areas of strong retail development. People like the convenience of being able to drop off their dry cleaning. Pick up their groceries. Do their errands and stop at the library all in one little swoop. It fits extremely well with the strategic plan that you're talking about with building community and providing a community center spot. 21 City Council Meeting - September 14, 1998 So I would really besiege you to think about the huge number of people who are impacted by our library at this current time and to think about how a library actually fits into your goals and address this component of the comprehensive plan by bringing it up. Moving it up as a higher priority. I'd also like to ask you to think of it as you're engaging in a budgeting process, which I know is coming up, and as you finalize the strategic plan, because I think a good library is just central to a good, strong community. Thank you. Mayor Mancino: Thank you. Janet Dingle: I'm Janet Dingle and I live at 9351 Foxford Road. I'm just here to support and reiterate everything that Jill basically just said. I'm a mother of two Chanhassen youth and I can confirm that the way the library card is used is exactly how Mrs. Shipley said. My youth are very interested, they're very active in soccer and community sports and I'm a soccer mom. I'm all for soccer fields and basketball courts and community centers, but I think I speak for a large number of concerned, yet possibly naive citizens about where the priorities are and I think that a library needs to be put on a higher priority. Thank you. Mayor Mancino: Thank you. Linda Jansen: Linda Jansen, 240 Eastwood Court. I'm going to switch gears a titch. I'm going to go to the transportation and only touch on it briefly. Only because of all the recent conversation that we've had on the whole 212 issue. In reviewing the transportation section of the comp plan, if you might take a look and revisit what is stated in regards to 212 and where the city's going. It might behoove us to take your memorandum of understanding and the letter that you've just written stating your position and somehow reiterate that into the comp plan. As it reads currently, the philosophy is stated that the city will support federal, state, metropolitan and local efforts directed towards the timely construction of Trunk Highway 169 and 212, but if you just could maybe note again some of the stronger points and issues that you had it would be appreciated. Thanks. Oh, and if as you're finishing up, I'm just curious. You commented that it would be the October 12th meeting where you would be coming back with the changes and such as you've addressed them in your meetings. Is that something that's made available to the public then to review? Okay. Mayor Mancino: Absolutely. Kate is the comprehensive plan on the internet? Kate Aanenson: We were hoping to do that. It became an insurmountable task as far as graphics and things we had in there. It just couldn't be accomplished. We were hoping that it, we're still hoping to put some of the, maybe even the goals and policies.., and leave it out there once we get it adopted. Mayor Mancino: That might be helpful if we can do that... Anyone else, please come forward. Your comments have been very, very good. This is how we know what people want. We're here to listen. Seeing none... Are there any questions that council members have for staff to work on? To kind of revisit. Anything that you have read, that you would like more information on or whatever in the next couple weeks. Or you'd like to see some clarification on. Just do heads up for everybody and make sure that we're going down the right track. I would just like to say, what a tremendous document. I'd like to thank staff for a very well prepared. It was excellent reading. I mean I just kind of sat there and saw everything coming together. So I would just like to thank you and the whole.., very well thought out and it was easy to read and easy to understand and when you take lay people like us, that I hope says a lot to you. How well it was done so we really appreciate it. We have one more thing on the agenda. 22 City Council Meeting - September 14, 1998 Kate Aanenson: Can I just get one clarification then? For the 12th, we'll come back with the recommendation we had before. I'm assuming between then and now if you have additional things you want us to look at, you will do that. Is that correct? Mayor Mancino: Yeah, I think between now and then we'll absorb some of it. I also think we have one activity we'd like to finish with our strategic plan to make sure the strategic plan and the comprehensive plan are together and so that we're integrating everything so not only do we have a comprehensive plan and a strategic plan that's linked up, but we will also then have a budgeting process that follows our strategic plan, our comprehensive plan, etc. Kate Aanenson: Just so, I think that everybody here and watching will understand that that's what we're going to come back with. We're going to relate back to your strategic plan and the budgeting process that we're going through this year and make sure that we're on the same page. Correct? Mayor Mancino: Yes. So that our city's values, our policies, are in our strategic plan, in our comprehensive plan and that's what our budget follows. The values that we have as a community. Okay. Good. ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATION: REPORT OF THE ADVISORY COUNCIL ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT~ PLANNING DIRECTOR. Kate Aanenson: Thank you. The legislature put together a group that was an advisory council. That was created in 1997 and they were supposed to report back on local governments and it was to examine some issues, they had some marching orders and they kind of ended up focusing on a couple of things. Mainly transportation but what they were trying to look at is how the region works, what does and doesn't work within the region. And part of being a member of the Southwest Coalition, the city of Chanhassen, other members on this coalition, Carver County, Eden Prairie, Victoria, Chaska, Shakopee, Scott County, Eden Prairie, Waconia, and the city of Carver, have decided that they may want to take an proactive position on the direction that this report's going to lead in the legislature last session. They looked at different ways of how they would appoint people to the metropolitan council. Whether they move to those positions being appointed by the county, members of the county board. There's been talk about doing an elected Met Council, and that's kind of the direction we're hearing right now so this group wanted to take a position on whether or not there'd be elected members to the Met council. And before they did that I wanted to. Mayor Mancino: ...that loud library group. Kate Aanenson: Excuse me. I'm sorry. I just wanted to run that past you because it is kind of an important issue and there's communities that feel strongly that they may have more input if they're elected and there's other people that feel that you're really duplicating that layer of government and they may become, because eventually the metropolitan area's going to have more population base than the larger outstate Minnesota and they would actually have more power. Part of this governance board looked at, should we include more counties in the metropolitan area? What's happening is people leap frogging out. But what this coalition group was looking at is taking a position, we do meet once a month just to keep updated on met council issues and we've all been kind of working together on how we're doing our comp plans and also keeping track of legislation and what that does as far as affecting planning issues. And this again is strictly just planning issues that this group meets on. So they were going to take a position on how Met Council members may or may not be selected and again we do have some credibility. We've been able to be informed and make some of our opinions known but this is an issue that I wasn't clear on, do you 23 City Council Meeting - September 14, 1998 want to take a position or not. And if you don't, that's fine. I just want to make sure that if Chanhassen's name was on that, I was clear what your position may be on that. Mayor Mancino: Sure, I understand. And it looks like, on the memorandum that we received Kate, that they're, I mean it's just not whether the metropolitan council, are elected or not. There are some other scenarios. Kate Aanenson: Yes. Yeah. But that's the one I guess that there seemed to be the greatest concern with. Maybe you don't have any. Mayor Mancino: Is there anyone from the audience that would like to address the Council on this? Okay, hearing none. Any discussion from Council? I really haven't thought about it. Councilman Berquist: ...thought about it too and I honestly don't... Councilman Senn: There's been a lot, there's been a lot of pros and cons written about this specific issue. You know I think maybe before we do, it'd be nice to assemble some of that information which I assume is pretty readily available and then we can.., some of the pro and con issues. Kate Aanenson: Yeah, one of the scenarios is right now it's, for example in the comprehensive plan there's certain system statements that you have to do. Housing right now is an assistance statement. They've asked us you know if we want to be a part of the Livable Communities Act. Or the carrot and the stick. Whether you feel that's punitive or not, but we agreed to participate. Some of the concern is if it's elected then there becomes a greater concentration of power that they can and cannot mandate as a system. And that was one of the issues. Councilman Senn: But they're not mandating anything now. That's the legislature that mandated that and the Met Council's suppose to administer it. Kate Aanenson: Correct. Right. But if they become elected and the power that they would have with the power base in the metropolitan area, working with the legislature, that that may be an issue. Mayor Mancino: Kate, is it a timing problem for you if we hold on this for another? Get some, yeah. Is that a problem? Okay. Kate Aanenson: Yeah, they've moved their meeting back so we should be okay. Mayor Mancino: And is it possible, I don't know if any council members have, it sounded like Councilman Senn you said that there were articles on. Is there a lot? There are things that you can copy and get to us or? Councilman Senn: Sure. Mayor Mancino: Councilman Mason? Councilman Mason: No, I was just going to say, off the top of my head here, and I would like to see some pros and cons on this. Off the top of my head, if we start working with an elected group, then we all start having a parochial interest in doing what's best for my little area as opposed to what's best for the whole 24 City Council Meeting - September 14, 1998 metropolitan area. Now arguably some people will say that's what's happening now. I would wonder if that wouldn't increase with that so I would, if there are pros and con articles out there, I'd enjoy seeing some of them. Mayor Mancino: I would too so if you have some and Councilman Senn, if you have some, that would be able to put in our next packet to get us in time, thinking time. Appreciate it. Mayor Mancino adjourned the meeting at 8:08 p.m. Submitted by Don Ashworth City Manager Prepared by Nann Opheim 25