Loading...
1980 11 10 I I I SPECIAL CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL MEETING NOVEMBER 10, 1980 Mayor Hobbs called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. with the following members present: Councilmen Pearson and Swenson. Councilmen Geving and Neveaux were absent. PUBLIC HEARING BLUFF CREEK DRIVE STREET IMPROVEMENT PROJECT Mayor Hobbs called the hearing to order with the following interested persons present: Tom and Janet Steinke, 1020 Hesse Farm Road Paul and Sue Allen, 1002 Hesse Farm Road Nick and Frankie Evanoff, 1401 Hesse Farm Road Jim Lutzweiler, 777 Heidi Lane Sue Ellefson. 1545 Bluff Creek Drive Harold and Pat Hesse, 1425 Bluff Creek Drive Gary Larson, 264 Water Street. Excelsior Tom Hamilton, 224 Chan View Clark Horn. 7608 Erie Len Takkunen. 1291 Bluff Creek Drive Roman Roos, Heidi Lane & Bluff Circle Gary Eastburn, 1225 Hesse Farm Circle Nick Haritz. 1271 Bluff Creek Drive Roger Brown. 1200 Hesse Farm Road Roger and Betty O'Shaughnessy, 1025 Hesse Farm Road Hor,.¡ard and Mary Ann Noziska, 1120 Hesse Farm Road Louis and Rita Foye. Lot 7. Hesse Farm Chad Junker. 1250 Hesse Farm Road Diane and Richard Maloney. 1315 Bluff Creek Drive Paul and Ray Symanitz. 1505 Bluff Creek Drive John Skraba, Jr., 1530 Bluff Creek Drive Ed Baruth. Schoell and Madson Jim Orr. Schoell and Madson Jim Orr explained the proposed project and costs involved. The hearing was then opened for questions and comments from the floor. RO:iian RaGs - Is there any fUIld sharing with Chicago Northwestern for the railroad crossing? Jim Orr _. The agency in the state that regulates that normally asks for such but I think in this particular case they show strictly 90% federal funding. This was programed regardless of the proposed improvement. The timing of the signal is uncertain. It's on their priority list. Louis Faye -. The statement was made that the reason for the deterioration in the road is largely the truck traffic short cutting to Jonathan. If that is indeed the cause of the extraordinary wear, what possible avenues are open to eliminate that short cutting? I guess you could go to stop signs every five feet and that would probably take of it. What other alternatives are open to take care of that problem? Jim Orr '- Some of the people want to have some kind of traffic inhibiter on both ends or one end. We have explored that as far as being acceptable to state aid. About the only realistic way that you could physically prevent trucks is some kind of sharper radius turn and the problem with that would preclude school buses. garbage trucks. snow plows as well. We would suggest that the City attempt to discourage truck traffic by simply putting up "no truck" signs. These tend to be very unenforcable but they may discourage a few people. The only way you could really regulate vehicular traffic on a given segment of road is with the axle road limitations. The problem with that is that they would eliminate these other vehicles as well. particularly the garbage trucks. Council Meeting November 10. 1980 -2- Louis Foye - What does the municipal state aid amount to in this case? Jim Orr - The state aid allotment for the City of Chanhassen for 1980 is $7,035 and for the construction portion it's $65.442. Louis Foye - If you didn't get municipal state aid for this street. what would I happen? Mayor Hobbs - On state aid funds. you have so many miles of state aid highways in a community. A state aid designation is any street that connects to state highways or state highway and county or two county roads can be eligible for state aid. They take the total miles and that's how the dollars are allocated. The City spends those dollars how they see fit. This particular project, the way it's presented tonight, shows $111.000 in state aid. That would probably be two years state aid allotment. Louis Foye - I am trying to get to the root of the problem here which is that the people who live along there are being asked to pay for damage that is being done by people short cutting to Jonathan. You also said this is a public improvement but it appears to be a private improvement. Tom Steinke - I was just thinking about the petition and as I understood it and as I signed it. the intent of the petition was to realize that we had a problem and what our options were to improve it. We as residents of the Hesse Farm area are minority users of that road. We are also looking at a $4.000 assessment for each property. We have in there private roads which we maintain ourselves. We are paying for something that we are not a total user of it. This is not a residential street. Let the road deteriorate. that will cut the trucks when they break a axle. John Skraba - How much right-of-way would you need if you did upgrade the road? I Jim Orr - There would be no additional. Gary Eastburn - Since there is so few of us having to pay for the entire assessment and I think we all agree it's not really a residential street because I can think of no other street in the City of Chanhassen that has as steep a grade as this street does and a railroad crossing that would be labeled a residential street. My concern is, is what receptivity on the part of the city is there to upgrade this road and less of an assessment for the group out there. If we are a minority user which in fact we are. I would say less than 10% of the traffic that goes through there is from the residents of Hesse Farm. It's probably mostly transient. The reason that I bring that up is that I am under the impression that Kerber Blvd. was a similar situation where there were state aid funds that were put aside for several years to fund the bulk of that assessment and I guess that's what I am looking at. Mayor Hobbs - I think that what a City Council would have to look at would be potential benefit for the overall and these become judgement calls at best. Kerber Blvd. opens up what we feel is the northwest quadrant of the City. It was not completely funded by state aid. There are assessments going back against the abutting property owners on that. Gary Eastburn - If you look at the inflation over the last four years. in five to six years I fully believe that the City will come back to us and say we want to pay this now as an assessment and five to six years I that's going to be 60% increase in the cost of the project which at that time will be assessed then. I would rather pay for this project now in 1980 dollars but I would rather have the City pick up a larger chunk. I I I Council Meeting November 10. 1980 ~3- Len Takkunen - At one point we had requested that the City entertain the thought of picking up the total tab for the area between 212 and the tracks since only one piece of property is located there. Another question I would like to ask is. we are talking about a 27 foot wide section of street. What is the minimum width of streets that the state would consider in an improvement like this? Jim Orr - State standards are normally 44 feet. Len Takkunen .- If it wasn't the state aid situation, what is the typical city street? Jim Orr - The ordinance reads 28 feet in the City of Chanhassen. Roger O'Shaughnessy -. Following the last Council meeting I felt there might be some orderly process by "'lhich we might give you some feedback with respect to the proposals and the Hesse Farm Homeowner's Association has asked me and others to conduct a poll amongst the proposed area of assessments and we have done so. I know that each of the council members has received copies of the poll. I will do it very briefly. Three proposals were put forth for the proposed assessed units. One being the red section on the map which we call the area of 212 and Bluff Creek Drive. The other being the red and blue areas combined 212 to County Road 14 and the third option that assuming would be the option the council might do nothing. The results of the 34 property owners responses were 7 to be in favor of the red area or 21% and 27 voted to do nothing. There were no persons apparently in favor of doing the entire red and blue sections. Interestingly enough if done on the assessible units, then the numbers changed some what. There are 60 assessible units in the area, 53% chose to do nothing and 12% favored the red section. If you like I can leave copies with you. He tried to present the thing as factually as possible without going to great length in detail. The communication was generally of a sound nature. Mayor Hobbs - The record should state that that your petition is the same one that the council received from Penberthy and Larson? Roger O'Shaughnessy - That's true. Mayor Hobbs -- A copy of that be attached to the public hearing. Rita Foye - The Engineer mentioned that the City Attorney that there was a precedent for assessing properties that do not abut those improvements. What precedent was set? Russell Larson -. The question was whether or not benefits from a public improvement such as this can be assessed against not abutting properties. The precedent is found in Minnesota. Statute 4,29.051 entitled "Apportionment of Cost" which provides that the cost of any improvement or any part thereof may be assessed upon the property benefitted by the improvement based upon the benefits received whether or not the property abuts on the improvement. We rendered an opinion in May of this year to this council that the cost of the improvement of Bluff Creek Drive could be assessed against the lots of Hesse Farm Additions based upon the benefits received under the authority of this statute. Rita Foye -- I am curious to what benefits "Te are going to receive. Russell Larson - You would receive the benefit if you live in any of the Hesse Farm Subdivisions, you would receive the benefit of traveling over an improved Bluff Creek Drive. if such were to occur. which is. incidentally, your only access to your property from either 212 or from the north. Rita Faye - I am wondering if the benefits are in proportion to what we would be assessed. Who makes that judgment? Russell Larson - We make no judgment as to how those benefits are to be apportioned. That rests with the council with the assistance of the City Manager and Engineer in determining those assessments. Council Meeting November 10, 1980 -4- Rita Foye - Has this been invoked in Chanhassen. the assessment properties even though they are not right on the ground. Mayor Hobbs - We have done it with Frontier Trail. Rita Foye - Had there been a request a few years ago bringing up the problem that I had existed there and nothing had been done about it? Mayor Hobbs - I have been on the council seven years and the Bluff Creek problem has come before the Council every year that I have been on it. I think two things that we have to look at, the City as with all cities in the State of Minnesota has been operating under a 6% levy limit since 1972. That's all we are allowed to increase the advalorem taxes regardless of the increase in the assessed valuation. There are very few people or companies that have lived within those kind of constraints. We have no money. In fact when Jim talks about the alternative of fixing up the road. I think we budgeted this year $5.000 for street maintenance for the entire city. The council next year will be looking at an increased levy. that's one of the ways you can get around the 6%, for street maintenance. I don't there is any question on the council that you don't have a problem. We have all driven over the street. Louis Foye - Does it make sense to continue with the traffic Jonathan? Does it make sense to permit that to not opportunities to stop it by whatever means? Mayor Hobbs - The council would be open to any suggestions. promoting truck traffic on Bluff Creek. short cutting to continue? Are there I don't think we are Gary Larson - Maybe you could explain the procedure from this point forward. I think the Engineer did a fine job of bringing us up to this point but people probably don't understand what options are available after this point. Mayor Hobbs - Normally what we would do after you have all had a chance to comment. we would close the public hearing and table action for a couple of weeks to allow for additional written comments. I think in lieu of the petition we have and the comments tonight, the comments we had at the council meeting when we ordered the public hearing. I would be disposed to ask the other two members sitting here tonight if we could dispose of that and we would vote tonight whether to go with the improvements either A or B or not go with them at all. Russell Larson - You would need a 4/5 vote,to authorize a public improvement where there has not been a 100% petition for the improvement. Gary Larson - If they were going to turn it down they could vote on it tonight. Mayor Hobbs - When we close the public hearing I would be willing to entertain a motion to not go ahead with the improvements tonight. I Len Takkunen - If we do nothing. that I think is a very shortsighted solution to what has been a long standing problem and will continue to be a long standing problem. We can be sure of one thing if we do nothing and that is that the road is going to get worse. The erosion will go unchecked and the washboarding will continue to be there. I am disappointed that the assessments were so high because I think that most of us here tonight were in agreement that our road is in poor condition. Most of the people here signed a petition stating that we were very concerned about the condition of the road and wanted to look at some options in fixing it. I just wish that the Council would look at and be receptive to picking up a greater portion of the tab because some day down the pike. perhaps in three years. when more people move into the Hesse Farm West, this is going to come up again. I I I I Council Meeting November 10. 1980 -5- Howard Noziska - One other thing that I would like to state and one of the reasons why this whole thing seems a bit one-sided or unfair is. you know we are sitting out there without the city sewer and water and also the Hesse Farm Road is our responsibility for maintenance so we are really sitting there with very very little city services and then we are taking a road that we do use but when we are having to share that road with 18 wheelers it seems it is a bit one-sided. It should be a project that would be more funded if not entirely funded by some state funds. Mayor Hobbs - Your point is well taken on increasing the amount of state aid funds. Nick Waritz - I guess at that time I really never considered that probably but those people who fronted on the road would ever be considered to be assessed for it. On the other hand I guess the project is considerably more ambituous with storm sewering. curbing and all that. Just about everyone here signed the petition that said the road is getting to be a hazzard and something has got to be done to it. Just about everyone at that time agreed to bear some fair share of the cost. I would be willing myself to blacktop on a front foot basis in front of my house. The Engineer says that you can't do that unless you put in curbing. storm sewer and all that kind of stuff which obviously I can't afford to do that. As far as oiling. if that's assessed back to me, I think you have to oil it at least three times a year. if you do that then I might as well pay an assessment. I would like to know what the alternatives are? Mayor Hobbs - I think there are a lot of things that the city can do. I just don't think we should put up a road closed sign because that would last about a week. In terms of oiling, that's about the only thing I see now as an alternative and that would only keep the dust down. John Skraba - The city removes the snow. They salt the ice. Why can't they take care of the dust. keep the traffic that doesn't belong there off of there? It is just as much a hazzard as the ice. Mayor Hobbs - If we took care of the dust on Bluff Creek we would have to take care of it on all gravel streets. I think it's a valid point. Then we might have to cut back on sanding and salting in the winter. It's, how do you slice the pie. John Skraba - I am sure that once that road was oiled. if the soft spots were graded out and rolled and packed and oiled, I am sure it would cut the maintenance way down. Gary Larson - What is a traffic inhibiter? Jim Orr - In the report. essentially what we are talking about here is just a means at either end or both ends to sharpen the turning radius so that essentially it would limit the vehicles into there to automobiles and your longer vehicles. trucks specifically, would then be unable to negotiate the turn. Nick Evanoff - How often do they grade that road? What's their policy for granding? Don Ashworth - It's whenever the road is bad. If you called in we try to go out and grade it as soon as possible. They try to watch it. Nick Evanoff - That's a waste of money. Gary Eastburn - You indicated that yes there was some receptivity on the part of the city and the council to look at increasing the chunk that the city would pick up. Mayor Hobbs - I said I as an individual would be receptive to that. Gary Eastburn - I see three options that you have now. Option A is to do the entire road. Option B is the red part and Option C is to do nothing. I guess I ask you to throw in Option D which says that the city would pick up Council Meeting November 10. 1980 -6- an extra third of the cost instead of what they are picking up now which would lower everybodys assessment by about half. I Mayor Hobbs - I think it would be in order to ask the City Manager to talk to the state to see if we can getauy feelings on projected state aid, what the status of the state account is going to be after completion of MSAS 101. You are looking at year after next before you can even add anything to the fund. Jim Lutzweiler - Personally. under the method proposed. I don't object to paying $4.000 to have that road upgraded. I think it will save my car that much wear and tear over the years but I don't think it's a fair proposal to distribute the assessment the way it is amongst the 60 owners. I think it would be equally inequitable to assess just those who abut the property. I am very warm toward the idea of upgrading that road and I don't think we have lost anything by developing the plan that's been developed. I guess what is needed is an equitable way to affect that. I don't think that plan exists at the present. Mayor Hobbs - The two real suggestions I have heard would be looking at potential increases in state aid and looking at possible alternative methods of assessment. Councilman Pearson moved to close the public hearing. Swenson. The following voted in favor: Mayor Hobbs, No negative votes. Hearing adjourned at 9:05p.m. BLUFF CREEK DRIVE STREET IMPROVEMENT PROJECT: Councilman Pearson moved to table I action and direct the City Manager and/or Engineer to investigate the areas of state aid, look at bonding and look at alternate methods of assessment. Motion seconded by Councilman S'venson. The following voted in favor: Mayor Hobbs, Councilmen Pearson and Swenson. No negative votes. Motion carried. Motion seconded by Councilman Councilman Pearson and Swenson. DOWNTOWN REDEVELOPMENT PROJECT, HOUSING AND REDEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY: Council members reviewed plans for the proposed downtown redevelopment project with representatives of BRW. A public hearing will be held at 7:30 p.m.. November 24 in the Chanhassen Elementary School. Councilman Swenson moved to adjourn. Motion seconded by Councilman Pearson. The following voted in favor: Mayor Hobbs. Councilmen Pearson and Swenson. No negative votes. Motion carried. Don Ashworth City Manager I