1983 12 05
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REGULAR CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
DECEMBER 5, 1983
Acting Mayor Geving called the meeting to order.
with the Pledge to the Flag.
The meeting was opened
Members Present
Councilman Horn, Councilwoman Watson and Councilwoman Swenson
Mayor Hamilton came late
Staff Present
Don Ashworth, Bill Monk, and Bob Waibel
Jim Thompson, Planning Commission
APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Councilwoman Watson moved to approve the agenda as
presented-With the addition of Lake Ann Park Cross Country Skiing. Motion
seconded by Councilman Horn. The following voted in favor: Acting Mayor
Geving, Councilwomen Swenson and Watson, Councilman Horn. No negative
votes. Motion carried.
CONSENT AGENDA: Mayor Hamilton came at this point in the meeting.
Councilman Geving moved to approve the consent agenda pursuant to the
recommendations of the City Manager and as amended in item lb.
a. Final Plat, Chanhassen Lakes Business Park Third Addition.
b. Stipulated Agreement, Landscape Contracting Business in an R-1A
District. Natural Green.
Exhibit A, Letter from Evan Green, Project Manager,MnDOT, dated July
27, 1983.
Page 2, #3 bottom of page to read IIbarnll instead of IIbermll.
Page 3, #9, add the word lIoutll. The City's complaint and the Owner's
answer, petition for writ of mandamus and counterclaim in the matter
entered shall be dismissed without prejudice and without costs to
either party.
c. Purchase Central Humidifier for City Hall.
d. Approve Old St. Hubert's Church Lease Agreement and Sub-lease Agreement
with Family of Christ Lutheran Church.
e. 1984 City Council Meeting Schedule.
Motion seconded by Councilwoman Watson. The following voted in favor:
Mayor Hamilton, Councilwomen Swenson and Watson, Councilmen Geving and
Horn. No negative votes. Motion carried.
UNITED MAILING: A representative from United Mailing was present. United
Mailing is looking for space to temporarily park approximately 20 semi
trailers until about February 1, 1984. Several locations were discussed,
i.e. Minnetonka West Junior High, Old Instant Web Building, behind former
lumber yard. Staff was directed to work with United Mailing represen-
tatives to find a suitable site.
RESCUE VEHICLE: The fire department received three bids. Council Members
requested an overall plan for the future needs of the fire department.
Councilman Geving moved to accept the low bid from Luverne Fire Equipment
Company in the amount of $45,464 for a fire department rescue vehicle.
Motion seconded by Councilwoman Watson. The following voted in favor:
Mayor Hamilton, Councilwomen Watson and Swenson, Councilmen Geving and
Horn. No negative votes. Motion carried.
Council Meeting December 5, 1983
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Note to Minutes: The official bid tabulation forms, as reviewed by the
City Council on December 5, 1983, and as on file, reflect that some minor
portions of the overall cost/award were approved for purchase from other
vendors; i.e. radios awarded under State Contract and some miscellaneous
supplies.
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MUNICIPAL INSURANCE: Councilwoman Swenson moved to accept the City
ManagerTs recommendation to select Dolliff Insurance as the Agent of Record
for the City of Chanhassen. Motion seconded by Councilman Horn. The
following voted in favor: Mayor Hamilton, Councilwomen Swenson and Watson,
Councilmen Geving and Horn. No negative votes. Motion carried.
MINUTES: Councilwoman Watson moved to approve the November 7, 1983,
Council minutes. Motion seconded by Councilman Horn. The following voted
in favor: Mayor Hamilton, Councilwomen Swenson and Watson, Councilmen
Geving and Horn. No negative votes. Motion carried.
Councilwoman Watson moved to approve the November 21, 1983, Council minu-
tes. Motion seconded by Councilman Horn. The following voted in favor:
Councilwomen Swenson and Watson, Councilmen Geving and Horn. Mayor
Hamilton abstained. Motion carried.
Councilman Geving moved to note the November 9, 1983, Planning Commission
minutes. Motion seconded by Councilman Horn. The following voted in
favor: Mayor Hamilton, Councilwomen Swenson and Watson, Councilmen Geving
and Horn. No negative votes. Motion carried.
Mayor Hamilton moved to note the August 31, 1983, September 27, 1983, I
October 13, 1983, and October 27, 1983, Community Recreational Facilities
Committee minutes. Motion seconded by Councilwoman Watson. The following
voted in favor: Mayor Hamilton, Councilwomen Swenson and Watson,
Councilmen Geving and Horn. No negative votes. Motion carried.
HRA APPOINTMENT: Mayor Hamilton nominated Charles Robbins to fill the
unexPTr~erm õf Tim Russell on the HRA.
RESOLUTION #83-56: Councilwoman Watson moved the adoption of a resolution
confirming the appointment of Charles Robbins to the HRA. Motion seconded
by Councilman Geving. The following voted in favor: Mayor Hamilton,
Councilwomen Swenson and Watson, Councilmen Geving and Horn. No negative
votes. Motion carried.
A letter of commendation will be sent to Tim Russell.
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, CAR WASH, 7901 GREAT PLAINS BLVD. Gary Brown,
MyrñaKurversandCraTg Kurvers werepresent.
Bob Waibel - Staff has made the recommendation of approval with the con-
dition that an indemnity agreement be drawn up to hold the City harmless
for any costs in restoring the concrete curb or bituminous hard surface
roadways constructed over the sanitary sewer easements should repair of
said sewer line ever be necessary.
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~ay~ ~milton - Are we going to sell the land or lease the land?
Bob Waibel - The HRA would sell it to Mr. Brown.
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Council Meeting December 5, 1983
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Councilman Geving - I know how much the money was paid by the HRA for that
piece of property and I would like not to see the City take a licking on
this even though we are promoting business.
Mayor Hamilton - Is this the kind of car wash where you wash it yourself?
Gary Brown - Yes. We will have insulated doors with electric garage door
openers.
Myrna Kurvers - There is no stacking space for cars at the car wash.
Councilwoman Swenson - Will you (Gary Brown) have sufficient room for both
those operations?
Gary Brown - Yes. The car wash will have three bays and behind each bay
there-wTTl be room for at least two cars per bay as they are waiting to get
into the car wash. We have found with our operation in the last ten years
or so, 95% of the people wash their car and go down the road. You do have
a few people that do bring their towel out and dry it off but it's really
minimal.
Mayor Hamilton - I couldn't see that there would be any problem with
stacking because if I am going to go to a car wash like this and there is a
car in the bay and there is a car waiting I am not going to stop.
Councilwoman Swenson - If it should become a problem we might have to
request that you put a IIfullll sign up so that we don't, in fact, have cars
parked on West 79th Street.
Craig Kurvers - I would like to know the actual size of the lot.
Bob Waibel - The actual size of the lot, after the dedication of the right-
of-way, would be 8,661 square feet.
Craig Kurvers - Would you define for me exactly what kind of establishment
is being proposed, as far as the Zoning Ordinance this would go under.
May~ Hamilton - CBD.
Cra~ f~vers - The Central Business District does have some zoning stan-
dards that it goes under. The CBD plan is based on some form of a guide-
line, is it not? The conceptual plan for the business district is based
established zoning practices. The way I interpret this from reading the
central business district, is that an operation like this would fall under
the criteria established for C-3 Zoning.
Mayor Hamilton - I believe this question has been asked before and staff
~answered it that a car wash does meet the zoning requirements of the
CBD.
Bob Waibel - It is an unconventional ordinance in the fact that it does not
prescribe any permitted or conditional uses. Any use that goes in that
district is a conditional use. It requires a public hearing that was held
by the Planning Commission.
Craig Kurvers - The development of the CBD is still based on guidelines.
Council Meeting December 5, 1983
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Bob Waibel - It does not imply those guidelines, to my knowledge, for
Ordinance-47A which is the CBD Ordinance sets forth the guidelines as far
as how the plans are to be reviewed.
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Crai~ Kurvers - I have here under Ordinance 47 entitled the Chanhassen
Zoning Ordinance, adopted February 1972 is hereby amended by adding Section
13, CBO. That would be the ordinance that establishes the CBO?
Bob Waibel - Section 13.01.
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~~l~ f~~~ - I guess the way I interpret it, if you read variances which
this would be under a conditional use variance, is that right?
Bob Waibel - No. There is no such thing as a use variance. State Law pro-
h i b i 15- t hat . It i sac 0 n d i t ion a 1 use per rn it.
Councilwoman ~~son - Everything is a conditional use permit in the CBO.
80b Waibel - There are cases when there is a very minor interior alteration
or-a-büTTding or change in tenancy where we have staff discretion to
authorize the permit to be executed without Council approval.
Crai~ f~~~~~ - The question I had is when this was established, the CBD,
under Ordinance 47. liThe Chanhassen Zoning Ordinance is hereby amended by
adding thereto the followingll now this was added to but that doesn't super-
sede what you had before.
Bob Waibel - All our rezonings are worded that way. It does in fact amend I
the distrTct for what the uses are to be or the requirements for the uses.
Crai~ Kurvers - The way I interpret it and I could be wrong but I interpret
it to mean that it was just added to so that the preceeding C-3 would still
be valid. The other question that I had, if this is new then the develop-
ments in this area should be consistent with other developments.
Bob Waibel - If someone wanted to build a zero lot line common wall
sltuatTon-we would have the flexibility under this ordinance to approve it.
Craig Kurvers - From reading the Zoning Ordinance that we have here, I
interpret it to be a C-3. It would fall under the category for an automo-
bile service station and under those guidelines the lot size minimum
requirement would be 20,000 square feet. In this particular case we have
8,000 square feet. If you fall in the C-3 category there with a 20,000
square feet lot size, it also states that for every service bay you are
required to have three exterior parking spaces for each interior bay.
May~ ~~mil!Q~ - That's a service station. This isn't a service station.
Craig f~vers - What is a car wash?
Councilman Horn - A service is when they do the service on on your vehicle.
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I~~ f~~~~ - They are occupying a space to provide a service to the
automobile. You go into the car wash and you park your car and a service
is performed on the car. I have a tough time defining the difference bet-
ween a service station bay and a car wash in that you are actually ser-
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Council Meeting December 5, 1983
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vicing the same thing. You are providing a service. I feel that this is
not right to say that 8,000 is reasonable Dr consistent with surrounding
development when you have a Brown's Standard Station right next to it which
would fall in the C-3 Zoning District.
Mayor Hamilton - It's CBD also. His Standard Station is in the CBD
Oistric~s~
Bob Waibel - As far as lot sizes go, this plan is even perhaps more con-
sistent than some of the development we see down there with the fact that
they exceed the impervious surface area ratio that we have been applying to
other development standards which is 30% open space and 70% building and
parking. This one exceed that by quite a bit.
Craig Kurvers - I know in looking at other service establishments, I know
there is one in Eden Prairie and there is one on Vine Hill Road, in my own
experience as far as service in each, I much prefer going to the one in
Eden Prairie and I believe that's because there is space there to get to
it. I don't know what type of facility we would want in Chanhassen but my
own self I would much prefer to see a facility like the one in Eden Prairie
where there is space to park your car. We mentioned earlier that there is
a potential problem of cars entering and exiting off of West 79th Street, I
know when I go to the one in Eden Prairie I wait because there is spaces to
wait, now under this plan I have understood that Mr. Brown said there will
be three spaces but when I look at the plan I have a tough time visualizing
where these are going to be.
Mayor Hamilton - Six people can wait while three are being washed so that's
nine cars at one time. There is enough space for six cars to wait.
Councilwoman Swenson - There is 46 feet from the bay to the road.
Certainly you can put two cars in 46 feet.
Myrna Kurvers - What I have is a plan drawn up this summer by Scott Martin.
~was part of the conceptual plan of the community development for the
City of Chanhassen in 1981. What I would like to show you first of all
which I don't think any of you are aware unless you see it visually, this
is our property line. You follow that line over and it almost in the
middle of the building of the Brown's Standard Station. If any of you have
gone over to the Standard Station you are well aware they use the property
all along there. In fact a couple of years ago we were called in because
some vehicles were parked on our property and we were going to be charged
for these vehicles and they weren't our vehicles. I want you to see very
vividly how much space you are talking about. I also want you to see how
far back the Brown's Station is from the highway. It's really very close
isn't it. In fact our lot line itself is quite close to State Highway 101.
What I have here is an overlay and, again, the Brown's Station, our lot
line, West 79th Street, the proposed widening of the highway for traffic
and if I am correct is a 30 x 50 foot building that they want in here. Do
you know how big a 30 x 50 foot building is? But, that's 50 deep. So can
you imagine how much that building is going to go out to the road or to our
land? There is definitely going to be no space around there and if you are
consistent with your guidelines there has to be some space between us.
What I have also on this plan are some suggested hypothetical plans showing
consistency. What I wanted to show you in these visuals, things drawn up
by your own City, is that to be consistent with your wonderful planning
Council Meeting Oecember 5, 1983
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that you .,ave done so far, it would be a shame and a discredit to your City
not to include and consider other properties with this and I don't think 1
there has been any place that you have allowed zero lot line. In 1981 we
had sold this land and low and behold it turned out that our property was
going to be bought by the City to widen some of the road in there and so we
couldn't sell our land and the contract fell through. I wish you would
consider that and take all these things into consideration. Your planning
does not plan a little tiny thing right on top of the highway. You, Mr.
Horn, told me that you wait sometimes 45 minutes to go into a car wash,
have you looked at the size of those car washes? They are a lot bigger. I
was at the public hearing last week and Mr. Thompson said two of them were
turned down because they had 30,000 square feet and they weren't big enough
and you are approving one a little over 8,000 square feet?
Councilman Horn - What is the space to the edge of this building from the
center-QT-the-street versus the building across the street?
Oon Ashworth - The Sorenson building is very close to the property line on
the east-slde. How far back is the building proposed from the property
line?
Bob Waibel - The dedication would place it 18 feet plus 14 feet right now
that-rs-bQulevard. There would be 14 feet dedicated and after that the
property line would be 18 feet from the building.
Councilman Geving - If this goes through I would propose that that side
yard be extended another five feet because if you ever had to drive a main- I
tenance vehicle or some kind of fire vehicle you would need ten feet in
width at least.
Councilwoman Swenson - I would concur with that.
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Bob Waibel - To the existing roadway there is 52 feet from the building.
~yrna f~vers - I would like to also bring out a couple things. At Brown's
Station, very crowded, very busy at the front. There might be only two and
three cars there and you are saying there is room for more on a piece of
property that is 1/3 of the size next door. Visualize those things,
pl ease.
Councilman Horn - I expect that even if the street were widened this
wouldn't be-any closer than Sorenson IS building.
Councilwoman Swenson - I don't think it would be as close.
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Myrna Kurvers - You have already put that one up there and now to take the
same-prObrem-on the other side of the street and make it more congested on
a main highway.
Mayor Hamilton - It will look nice. There will be a nice berm in there.
There wi 1 T-Ee-some trees planted.
Myrna Kurvers - I would also like to point out that a couple of years ago
Al KlingeThutz asked if he could build a building on this piece of property
and it was turned down because there was not enough room.
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Council Meeting Oecember 5, 1983
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Councilwoman Swenson - That was a different type of a building.
Councilman Horn - There was a proposal to maybe move the whole building
south to alrow-for extra stacking, is that feasible?
Gary Brown - I don't see why we would have to.
Councilman Horn - I guess I am more optimistic about the business than what
you are.
Gary Brown - I am agreeing with you and I hope you are 100% right but you
~eed the room when you leave there for your vacuum cleaners and such
like that.
Councilman Geving - The Planning Commission mentioned several times
drainage and I am familiar with that area and I know it can be pretty wet
down there and I am hoping that it doesn1t get any worse. The thing that I
am concerned about, there is a drainage ditch along the road now, I think
there is a culvert next to the road, isn't that correct?
Gary Brown - No. There is no culvert until you get to my south entrance at
~Standard Station there is a culvert there.
Councilman Geving - Let1s refer to the south side of your proposed
building, between the building and the Standard Station itself, will that
be leveled in such a manner so that there will be no drainage problem
there.
~ary Brown - It should be 100% improvement over what we have now.
Bill Monk - It will go to the west. Very little will go to the east.
Councilman Geving - Tell me how you are going to make this look nice to a
person driving to Chanhassen to go to the Dinner Theatre for the evening,
how is this going to be beautified with shrubs, plants, trees, whatever.
Gary Brown - You know what the lot looks like now, all the way up to the
Hanus-building, it1s brush and junk, trees, weeds. We are going to put up
a nice block building. We are going to pave it. We are going to have the
green strip in the front with shrubs and sodded. The only signage on the
building will be inset into the block. It will just say IICar Washll on it.
Councilman &evi~ - Will there be any of the signs like we have at
McDonalds where you have lIinll and lIoutll type of signage.
Gary Brown - That wi 11 be on the b u i 1 din g . I t wi 11 say II entrance II on the
West 79th Street side and it will say lIexit onlyll on the south side.
Councilman Geving - You are going to destroy some of the curbing on the
West 79th Street side. How are you going to handle that?
Bill Monk - There will be a concrete driveway type entrance. It's basi-
caTTy-a-curb section but has a short back on it to make sure that the
drainage is routed down West 79th Street and does not come down into this.
Councilman Horn - What are the hours of operation?
Council Meeting Oecember 5, 1983
Gary Brown - I would think in the summer
Tn-the-WTñter I would think we would run
6:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m.
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a person could run it 24 hours.
it the same hours as the station,
£Quncil~~ Geving - Many times we have asked for an escrow account, we have
asked for the City Engineer to review the project as it proceeds to make
sure that what you say tonight will actually happen next spring. To make
sure that the shrubbery gets in.
Gary Brown - If I can stand on my merits a little bit here. When I bought
~Standard Station in 1971 the weeds were high all around the building
and allover the place. I went to work and cut all those weeds and put
some hedges up and such and I think we do a pretty darn good job of keeping
it mowed and looking good now and I would sure think that we would do at
least as good a job on this building.
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Councilman Gevin~ - These are conditional uses and one of the conditions
could be just that, that we would have your plan and direction to staff
would be to see that the plan is carried out.
Gary Brown - In essence what, I guess, gave us the idea of doing something
with ThlS-lot is the simple fact that I have to look at the other lot 365
days a year and look at the brush and weeds growing over there and I can't
blame the City for it because there is old foundations and stuff in there
and they can't cut the grass. I cut as much of that as I can now. We have
been working at cleaning out as much as we can there but there is just so
much we can do and the City can do.
Councilman Geving - I have no problem with this plan except for the recom- I
mendatTon-and-COñdition be that the building be moved to the west five
additional feet so that there is a ten foot side yard setback from the
Kurvers property.
Gary Brown - That's fine with me as long as the City fathers can go along
with thar-because they asked for that extra 14 feet in there in case the
road is ever widened.
Gary Brown - I would welcome something being built on the Kurvers property
because-r-am getting a little tired of looking at the weeds and brush in
there. I think it would be a great idea.
Myrna Kurvers - Last week we went to the public hearing and that was
Wednesday night and Wednesday is when the paper comes out and so the same
day that the paper came out, tonight they were going to approve the
November 21st Planning Commission minutes but on the same agenda you are
having something that wasn't even approved by you tonight. How can you act
on the Planning Commission's approval when you haven't approved that
meeting.
Bob Waibel - The Council has those minutes.
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Myrna Kurvers - You haven't approved them yet because you are only 1
approvTngthe 21st. The other thing is, which I have tried to point out to
you, I showed you three different alternatives of plans that were drawn up
by your own department and I still think it would be very wise for the City
to think of the total piece of property which you have done other places.
Why do you want to let him put it in that little piece? There is a for
sale sign up there. Why not do it consistent with your other plans instead
of squeezing one in.
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Council Meeting Oecember 5, 1983
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Councilwoman Watson moved to approve a conditional use permit for construc-
tion of a car wash, 7901 Great Plains Blvd., Planning Case 83-8 with the
condition that the building be moved an additional five feet to the west
and that the applicant enter into an indemnity agreement with the City
holding the City harmless for any costs in restoring the concrete curb or
bituminous hard surface roadways constructed over the sanitary sewer ease-
ments should repair of said sewer line ever be necessary. Motion seconded
by Councilman Horn. The following voted in favor: Mayor Hamilton,
Councilwomen Swenson and Watson, Councilmen Geving and Horn. No negative
votes. Motion carried.
COMPREHENSIVE LAND USE PLAN AMENDMENT FROM CAMPUS BUSINESS TO COMMERCIAL,
NORTHWEST CORN~F-POW~BLVO. ANO TRUNK HIGHWAY 5: Counc,lwoman Swenson
moved to change-the land use designation for the property lying northwest
of the intersection of Powers Blvd. and Highway 5 from campus business to
commercial as recommended in the Planning Report dated October 18, 1983.
Motion seconded by Councilman Horn. The following voted in favor: Mayor
Hamilton, Councilwomen Swenson and Watson, Councilmen Geving and Horn. No
negative votes. Motion carried.
ORDINANCE REGULATING AND LICENSING MECHANICAL AMUSEMENT DEVICES AND
ARCAOE AMUSEMENT CENTERS: Councilwoman Swenson moved to place on-rirst
reading-an-ordinance regulating and licensing mechanical amusement devices
and arcade amusement centers and providing a penalty for violation. Motion
seconded by Mayor Hamilton. The following voted in favor: Mayor Hamilton,
Councilwomen Swenson and Watson, Councilmen Geving and Horn. No negative
votes. Motion carried.
CURFEW ORDINANCE 43, AMENDMENT: Councilwoman Swenson moved to place on
first reading an ordinance regulating the presence of minors under the age
of eighteen years on streets or in public or quasi-public places between
certain hours, defining the duties of parents and others in the care of
minors, and providing for arrest and penalties for violation. Motion
seconded by Councilwoman Watson. The following voted in favor: Mayor
Hamilton, Councilwomen Swenson and Watson, Councilman Horn. Councilman
Geving voted no. Motion carried.
SANITARY SEWER RATE INCREASE:
RESOLUTION #83-~ Mayor Hamilton moved the adoption of a resolution
increasing the municipal sewer rates. Resolution seconded by Councilwoman
Swenson. The following voted in favor: Mayor Hamilton, Councilwomen
Swenson and Watson, Councilmen Geving and Horn. No negative votes. Motion
carried.
CROSS COUNTRY SKIING, LAKE ANN PARK: Councilman Geving asked if the road
into Lake Ann Park could be plowed to allow people to park and cross
country ski. The City Engineer will see that this is done.
CABLE TV BOARO: The board will meet with the Council the first or second
week in-January to review the bids.
WATER PRESSURE PROBLEMS: Mayor Hamilton requested that a review of the
entire water system (water pressure problems, water towers, water usage) be
a future agenda item.
Councilwoman Swenson moved to adjourn. Motion seconded by Councilman Horn.
The following voted in favor: Mayor Hamilton, Councilwomen Swenson and
Watson, Councilmen Geving and Horn. No negative votes. Motion carried.
Don Ashworth
City Manager