CC Minutes 1998 05 13CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL
SPECIAL MEETING
MAY 13, 1998
Mayor Mancino called the meeting to order at 4~00 p.m.
COUNCILMEMBERS PRESENT: Mayor Mancino, Councilman Senn, Councilman Berquist, and
Councilman Mason
COUNCILMEMBERS ABSENT: Councilman Engel
STAFF PRESENT: Don Ashworth, Todd Gerhardt,, Anita Benson, Todd Hofknan, and Charles Folch
RECONSIDERATION ALTERNATIVES FOR SIREN PURCHASE AND INSTALLATION.
Mayor Mancino: One of the items we discussed on Monday night and we took action on, under new
business was 3, consider alternatives for siren purchase and installation. And there seemed to be some
confusion. Well, not didn't seem to be some confusion but there seems to be kind of a misunderstanding of
the intent of the motion so I would like to bring that back right now for just a few minutes and make clear
the motion that Councilman Berquist made and it's intent and if you could bring that up again Councilman
Berquist and make it very clear about whether it authorized for bids or not.
Councilman Berquist: It does authorize, the intent of my motion was to authorize bids and the intent of my
motion was to begin installation of sirens this season. This year. As soon as possible and continue it into
next season as necessary. I want options. I want the Council to be able to see options on the coverages and
what we can do this year and follow it up with completion next year. But it did intend for installation of
sirens, significant part of the system to be installed this season.
Mayor Mancino: And to get bids, because that's the only way we're going to know the options.
Councilman Berquist: Yes. And to get bids. And to use contingency funds to fund it. A dollar amount
was open ended at the time of the motion and it still is. And at the work session I hope to be able to bring it
to some conclusion. Did Imake it clear enough?
Councilman Berquist: Fine. We'll just use that as a second follow-up motion. I'll second that.
Councilman Senn: Why do we need a new motion?
Mayor Mancino: I just want to make sure that the motion is clear that we are authorizing bids.
Councilman Senn: So this is superceding the previous motion?
Mayor Mancino: Yes. Over and above so it's clear that we're authorizing bids. If you read the motion
from before it doesn't clearly state authorizing bids.
Councilman Senn: If we're adding authorizing bids, I don't have a problem with that. I mean I have a
problem at this point committing to the level that we're going to implement when we don't even know the
cost.
City Council Meeting - May 13, 1998
Mayor Mancino: And that's why we're authorizing bids to make sure that we know the costs.
Councilman Senn: The motion which was just stated committed a significant portion of the system being
installed this year. I'm not willing to commit to that at this point.
Councilman Berquist: Let me withdraw the motion and.
Mayor Mancino: We can always have 3 for and 1 against.
Councilman Berquist: I'll read what was on there and, what the Minutes said and then I'll just add to it to
try and make it clear. Councilman Berquist moved and Councilman Engel seconded that the City Council
authorize the Public Safety Director, in conjunction with the City Manager, to explore with the
manufacturers implementing city wide coverage for the City of Chanhassen with outdoor sirens over the
course of this construction season and next construction season, using contingency funds that are available
in a dollar amount which is open ended at this time. They are to present the City Council with a series of
options and alternative plans upon which a decision can be made at the next work session. The intent of
my motion was to begin installation this season.
Councilman Senn: And to solicit bids at this time?
Councilman Berquist: And to solicit bids at this time.
Councilman Berquist moved, Mayor Mancino seconded that the City Council authorize the Public
Safety Director, in conjunction with the City Manager, to explore with the manufacturers
implementing city wide coverage for the City of Chanhassen with outdoor sirens over the course of
this construction season and next construction season, using contingency funds that are available in a
dollar amount which is open ended at this time. They are to present the City Council with a series of
options and alternative plans upon which a decision can be made at the next work session. The intent
of the motion is to begin installation this season and to solicit bids at this time. All voted in favor and
the motion carried.
Mayor Mancino: No, we couldn't get alternatives if we didn't allow the professionals to give us bids so it
was, the intent was there but I wanted to make it very clear after reading the motion.
I(F) APPROVE RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING LIMITED USE PERMIT FOR MNDOT~ 1998
TRAIL PROJECT.
Mayor Mancino: This was pulled and did you have a question why it was pulled. I believe it was
Councilman Senn who pulled that.
Councilman Senn: Okay, this is for the trail on Highway 7 and this is for the trail on TH 101 South of TH
5, correct?
Mayor Mancino: Between TH 5 and...
Councilman Senn: Okay. And this is the final effective authorization to go ahead and do this? Do the
trails?
City Council Meeting - May 13, 1998
Mayor Mancino: No. Todd, can you go in and kind of explain this. This is to execute a limited use permit
with the Minnesota Department of Transportation, with MnDot.
Todd Hoffman: Yeah, without this resolution we cannot build the trails within the right-of-way. This
simply allows us to construct these trails within the MnDot right-of-way.
Mayor Mancino: As well it does to construct, maintain and operate the trail improvements within MnDot
right-of-way. This is giving us, having an agreement to do that as a city.
Councilman Senn: Okay, and is there going to be anymore discussion on the issues involving the abutting
neighbors?
Todd Hoffman: On Highway 101 that you mentioned earlier?
Councilman Senn: Yes.
Todd Hoffman: Yes. There's ongoing discussions with those residents.
Councilman Senn: Okay, so that's not a closed end issue with those people?
Todd Hoffman: No. We've continued to communicate with these people at their wish and the attorneys are
out meeting with the folks. Dave and I have been meeting with these people. We have had an open
invitation for the past 5 months to communicate with us as a part of this project.
Mayor Mancino: Todd does that mean that if there are some concerns from the residents at this point in
our schedule, that there can be moving the trail a little closer to the roadway. Movement of trail at all or
not? Or does it mean that where we have seen the trail designed is where it's going to go? Or is there some
room for movement because.., concern at this point.
Todd Hoffman: No, at this point the trail needs to be built where it has been planned and approved by the
City Council.
Mayor Mancino: And it already has been approved by the City Council?
Todd Hoffman: Correct, the plan.
Mayor Mancino: Where the trail's going and the plans and specifications for it. So all this does is allow
us to have an agreement with MnDot. Those in the right-of-way. Okay.
Councilman Senn: Okay, so even though a portion of the trail's.., going to be ripped up, and even though
the right-of-way is going to substantially move to the east, you're saying the trail has to effectively stay on
the western edge of the right-of-way?
Todd Hoffman: The location where the trail is currently proposed is the best location for the trail to be
constructed at this time.
Councilman Senn: At this time. But what about when the future right-of-way? What about when the
future roadway is constructed?
City Council Meeting - May 13, 1998
Todd Hoffman: The future road, there will be a new road, a new trail, new right-of-ways. 101 south.
Councilman Senn: It's all going to be new?
Todd Hoffman: On 101 south, if you can image from the southern half of 101 where it exits Rosemount,
that's where the existing paving section ends. South to Lyman Boulevard will be at the intersection of
Lyman Boulevard, as it cuts across the farm field there, it will be all new road and so that will take out the
top half or the top 30% of the trail which we're putting into place today. But when will that be built?
Long time in the future.
Mayor Mancino: And Councilman Senn, I think some of the reasoning was, you know much like your
concern on 101 north of TH 5. We don't know when 101's going to be upgraded. It's not on the plans for
the next 10 years at all, and the typical life of a trail is 10 to 12 years and I can tell you that many, many
people in Mission Hills went out and were very much for the referendum and wanted the trail now, much
like those again on 101 north of TH 5 because we don't know when 101 is going to be upgraded so I think
that there will be a good use for it at this time and as you know, it's much like 101 north. It's not a very
safe place to walk at this point. And for that, for the matter of fact I mean, you know Galpin at some point
north of TH 5 will be upgraded too. There are parts of Galpin I'm sure where the trail at some point, and
we don't know when we'll be upgrading Galpin, will need to be redone. We certainly tried in the newer
areas where we've had new subdivisions to put it far enough so that as it goes to a two lane plus you know
a third lane or right hand lanes, that we won't have to rebuild it as much as we can but, so I think the
thinking's been done. I don't know if that answers your concerns.
Councilman Senn: Well I guess I sometimes wonder why one section of trail, which everybody likes to
recite the similarities and it's treated so much differently than other sections of trail. But go ahead if you
want.
Councilman Berquist: Move approval.
Councilman Mason: Second.
Resolution #98-45: Councilman Berquist moved, Councilman Mason seconded to approve the
resolution authorizing a Limited Use Permit for MnDot for the 1998 trail project. All voted in favor
and the motion carried.
AWARD OF BIDS: 1998 TRAIL PROJECTS.
Todd Hoffman: Mayor Mancino, members of the City Council. Upon acceptance of the plans and
specifications for the 1998 trail project, and authorization of bids by the City Council, we indeed did go
ahead and publish this project. We are pleased to bring you a qualified bidder for the construction of the
1998 trail project. The low bid was presented by Midwest Asphalt in the amount of $1,096,269.50. It's
just under the estimated project budget for that portion of the project. That $1,123,320.00. So we
recommend the City Council award the 1998 trail project to Midwest Asphalt Corporation in the amount of
$1,096,269.50. We have gone ahead and commenced a pre-construction meeting with Midwest Asphalt.
Have met with the utility companies. That was scheduled for Tuesday morning after the 12:45 Council
meeting. At the encouragement of Mayor Mancino and the City Manager we did not postpone those
City Council Meeting - May 13, 1998
invitations for that pre-construction meeting. Midwest Asphalt and their subcontractors are prepared to
start construction on the project on Monday morning.
Mayor Mancino: Thank you very much. Any questions for Todd at this point?
Councilman Senn: A couple.
Mayor Mancino: Okay, Councilman Senn.
Councilman Senn: Todd, in that this is coming in under budget then, does that mean that these funds will
then be available to handle some of the other overages that have occurred in other parts of the budget on
trails?
Todd Hoffman: It certainly can be, yes.
Councilman Senn: Well can we assume that it will be?
Todd Hoffman: Well we could assume that there will be change orders as well as a part of this project that
could consume some of that overage.
Councilman Senn: Okay, so in the $1,123,000.00 you're reciting as the budget, that includes the
contingency and everything. That's the total budget?
Todd Hoffman: That's the total estimated budget for the project. Estimated. Once we build it on the real
world, there certainly could be things that we're going to find that are going to cost additional dollars.
Councilman Senn: So right now you've got about $50,000.00 sitting in the pot for change orders if they
occur? More or less.
Mayor Mancino: Well we still don't know obviously easement costs. I mean he's got a pretty good range.
Councilman Senn: Okay, and you're comfortable with, or you guys are comfortable with Midwest Asphalt
as the company doing the work?
Todd Hoffman: Yes we are.
Mayor Mancino: Have they done a lot of projects? I mean what's their background like?
Todd Hoffman: They've done a lot of work in Chanhassen in the recent future so.
Mayor Mancino: And they're located in Chanhassen?
Councilman Mason: In the recent future?
Todd Hoffman: Past.
Councilman Mason: That's faster than anyone's ever been gone before Mr. Hoffman.
City Council Meeting - May 13, 1998
Todd Hoffman: Thank you.
Councilman Mason: I like that.
Mayor Mancino: Any other questions? Or Councilman Senn, are you done?
Councilman Senn: Yeah...
Mayor Mancino: Any other questions?
Councilman Berquist: I'm just a little bit concerned about the spread of the bids. Two within dollars and
then all of a sudden we jump up dramatically and I think it's, I know Ingram was, they were.., successful
on City Center were they not?
Todd Hoffman: Yeah.
Councilman Senn: And did you have any problems with them on City Center?
Todd Hoffman: They're the next recommended bidder for the City Center/Bandimere project.
Councilman Senn: Oh Todd, I'm sorry.., with the Rec Center, I'm sorry. So they didn't do the Rec Center
work or anything? Okay. Well I guess I am uncomfortable with Midwest Asphalt. Very uncomfortable
with them. We had them come into our neighborhood and do a significant neighborhood project which
almost ended up in court. Which has never been really satisfied from a quality work standpoint. I mean it
still isn't satisfied. And did not meet the plans and specs of the project or anything else.
Mayor Mancino: So that's been your one?
Councilman Senn: Yeah, but I mean that makes me uncomfortable. Especially when you're on such a
tight budget and you've got such a spread. It really bothers me.
Mayor Mancino: And we did authorize for the next lowest bidder.., give you some time to do some
background on either but.
Todd Hoffman: My response to that would be that, every time we accept a contract of this size, and a
contractor, I am uncomfortable to a certain degree. It is as much our end of the project, how we
communicate to that contractor. How we coordinate our work with that contractor. It as much as our
responsibility to make sure that that project comes off correctly as it is their responsibility. We feel
through our, we have held two pre-construction meetings with Midwest Asphalt. One singularly with their
company, with their representatives to make sure that we set the table straight right up front. How we want
this project managed. And then we had the full pre-construction meeting with all of their representatives of
their company. Their subcontractors, utility contractors. Looking at changing low bids just on a, every
one of these contractors I can guarantee you have had bad experiences in the past with somebody or the
other and in order to accept the next lowest bidder takes a great deal of process and commitment on our
part to prove that they are not capable to perform this work and I don't believe we could do that.
Councilman Berquist: Have we done any other trail construction?
City Council Meeting - May 13, 1998
Anita Benson: ...the Lyman Boulevard, there was a subcontractor on that...
Mayor Mancino: Maybe a warning from Councilman Senn to, I mean you're really going to have to ride
her to make sure.
Charles Folch: And from time to time you can run into a bad crew.., company and have a bad experience.
I'm not sure what you folks did Mark but with all our projects here we have... I think a performance bond
makes a big difference.
Councilman Senn: That would probably make a big difference. We didn't have that unfortunately. So
after umpteen years now we still have a tennis court that pools water and holds it for days every time it
rains.
Councilman Berquist: Well we have two of those too.
Councilman Senn: Oh I know, and we don't like those contractors either. So I mean it's kind of like.
Mayor Mancino: Well thank you for bringing that up. I hope that helps you feel more comfortable. May I
have a motion please?
Councilman Berquist: Move approval of the 1998 trail project to Midwest Asphalt in the amount of
$1,096,269.50.
Mayor Mancino: I'll second that.
Resolution #98-46: Councilman Berquist moved, Mayor Mancino seconded to award the bid for the
1998 trail projects to Midwest Asphalt Corporation in the amount of $1,069,269.50. All voted in
favor, except Councilman Senn who abstained, and the motion carried.
AWARD OF BIDS: 1998 SITE IMPROVEMENTS FOR BANDIMERE AND CITY CENTER
PARKS.
Todd Hoffman: Thank you Mayor Mancino, members of the City Council. If you can't tell already
tonight, this is one of the biggest nights in the history of park and recreation in the city of Chanhassen. So
the award of bid to construct Bandimere and City Center parks is before us. Again, we held that bid
opening a week ago last. 2:00 p.m. on May 5th in the Council chambers. The profile of the bid results
presented with a letter from Jeff Schoenbauer who is with us this evening from Brauer and Associates. The
low bidder was Ingram Excavating. Ingram wanted one of these jobs. They're right in our back door.
They do business just off of Pioneer Trail, out of our city in Eden Prairie and so when they found they were
third in the trail project they sharpened their pencil and came in with a good bid on this project at
$1,461,230.90 for the base bid. Bob Peterson who is the project foreman, or superintendent, happens to
live right across from the new entrance. The entrance going into Bandimere Park is on the east. His
driveway is on the west. So he guaranteed us when he got up to walk out the morning newspaper that he
could keep an eye on this project. So we feel we have a good superintendent to work with. At this time we
also are recommending the acceptance of four alternatives totalling $47,418.00 are accepted as a part of
the project. Those were backed out as alternatives to make sure that we had the room to get a budget base
bid under budget. And if you'll notice we only have a single big under budget on this project so we were
very pleased that Ingram came in with that. That being said, it's recommended the city award the
City Council Meeting - May 13, 1998
Bandimere and City Center Park projects to Ingram Excavating. Accepting their base bid and Alternatives
of number 2 and 3 for Bandimere Park and Alternatives 1 and 2 for City Center Park for a total amount of
$1,508,648.90. Those alternates for the most part are sewer work for the sanitary sewer and then for some
screening and pulverizing of top soil up here at City Center Park which just allows us to help in a much
better product for the... We could have left out sewer but then we would have been back in there 4-5 years
when the buildings are constructed, digging up the newly refurbished parks. You don't like to have to do
that so we're pleased that it can be added to the project.
Mayor Mancino: Any questions for staff at this point?
Councilman Berquist: Can you run that sewer issue by me one more time.
Todd Hoffman: Yep. At Bandimere if you can imagine, right at the center of the park there will be down
south, Bandimere Park there will be a future concession building and restrooms and those type of things.
It's not in our budget today. We have to run sewer from the top of that hill down to Kiowa and so we can
do it now and save the headache of ripping up the brand new park in 4 or 5 years or 2 or 3 years when we
would build this building. Or do it now. Same thing at City Center. There's currently no sewer service
out to this building and we want to put restrooms in that future building so we'll run sanitary from just
behind City Hall over to Laredo as a part of this project. And the numbers are very good. Pat Minger,
local contractor will be performing that part of the work. He was at our pre-construction meeting on
Tuesday.
Mayor Mancino: Is there going to be electrical out there? So that as I looked at the circles on Monday
night for sirens, and obviously we're not going to put a siren up until next year there because it's all being
worked on this year. That's not going to happen. But if that does become a location for one, there is
electrical out there, correct?
Jeff Schoenbauer: There is electrical adjacent to the site so that would be available.
Mayor Mancino: Thank you. Councilman Senn.
Councilman Senn: Todd, as I'm understanding the recommendation here, if I'm reading it correctly or
understanding it correctly, you want us effectively now to authorize expenditure of these additional dollars,
$101,351.00, whatever is left?
Jeff Schoenbauer: We're suggesting that the remaining budget, if you will, from $1.61 to your contract
total be retained for contingency and perhaps adding back in some of the alternates that were not accepted
at this time. And the reason for that is that some of the alternates that remain include tree, additional tree
planting, ornamental features and so forth. However, we do have some undefined elements yet that we
want, we're suggesting that you retain some contingency dollars for so that you can deal with them, if they
come up. One is Highway 101, MnDot is still evaluating the soil conditions there. It's likely that they're
going to come back and ask us to beef up the cross section of that road. If that's the case, we'll have to dip
into that contingency dollar to accommodate that type of thing.
Mayor Mancino: And you will come back to us about spending contingency funds? Okay.
City Council Meeting - May 13, 1998
Councilman Senn: And just so we understand this okay. The money will be held for a contingency will be
used only first on contingency that we authorize and then anything else you're going to want to use it for
will come back to us after the contingency is set?
Jeff Schoenbauer: No. Any additional dollars above the $1.5 million would, we would come back to you
for authorization. Whether it's dealing with improving a cross section of 101 entrance or adding trees back
in. Those are all requirements that we come back to you with a change, an official change order. What
we're suggesting is that you essentially leave the $100,000.00 in the kitty for your discretion later on
should you need to use it. That would be your discretion, not our's.
Councilman Senn: Why wouldn't we also look at using some of this money to again make up some of the
overages in cost in other areas?
Todd Hoffman: It certainly could.
Mayor Mancino: We may.
Councilman Senn: Well why, I mean why don't we just decide up front to do that? I mean we already
know the overages and we're taking the overages from other areas we didn't want to take them from.
Jeff Schoenbauer: As it stands right now, the alternates that we're not recommending at this point are the
aesthetic qualities of the park. What we're building for $1.5 million is essentially the infrastructure and to
make the park functional completely. It is our suggestion that should the budget allow in September or
something, that you add back in some of these park beautiful things to make, to achieve the objectives we
had set at the master plan level. However, given the unknowns that accommodate soil conditions and so
forth in both parks, it is our suggestion that we take a wait and see attitude so that you don't plant a tree
when in fact you've got to spend some money to deal with soil conditions.
Councilman Senn: How about then when you come back and ask for additional authorization of spending
here, that you bring in the total status of the referendum budget so we understand where our overages are.
Where our savings are. You know where there's potential offsets rather than just small bit approach by
small bit approach. I mean what I see is a bunch of small bids coming in all saying okay, we have extra
money but we want to hold it there because if it's extra, we do want to spend it. Yet I've already seen a lot
of things come through that say we don't have enough money so we've got to take money from elsewhere to
spend it. And all it means is spending more money. How about using some of our overages for some of
our better bids here now and use the money to basically pay for some of our overages in other areas. This
doesn't give us a picture of that at all. It gives us no picture of that.
Todd Hoffman: I can certainly do that. There are 28 individual projects as a part of the referendum and
I'll bring those in to you, and they're quite liquid as we move through there so there are, there are estimated
costs in all of those projects. The bids are all not in. These two, we have no other overages as a part of the
referendum with the exception of these two projects. The largest projects. The city trails and the city
parks. The rest of our projects we expect to bring in on their budgeted numbers. All of the neighborhood
parks that were included in the referendum.
Councilman Senn: Where are our breakdowns in relationship to different components of the parks within
this bid? We didn't get any breakdowns or anything...
City Council Meeting - May 13, 1998
Mayor Mancino: Between City Center or Bandimere.
Councilman Senn: Between City Center and Bandimere and the different elements of City Center versus
Bandimere.
Jeff Schoenbauer: You're welcome to get a copy of the complete bid form and that describes everything...
(There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.)
Mayor Mancino: ... comfortable going ahead without that tonight personally.
Councilman Senn: Well with some, I mean at earlier meetings though.
Mayor Mancino: We did go ahead and approve the design, etc of the two parks.
Councilman Senn: We approved the design and we said when the money bids came back we'd be able to
see the cost of the individual components in the park and that we'd be able to go over that before we
approved it, okay. I mean there are certain elements of this park, or parks, that in my mind there's cost
benefit issues over given what the cost is versus the amount of people or the portion of our population they
are going to serve. And we said there was going to be an opportunity to look at that and discuss it. That
opportunity's not disappeared it appears. So I'm not comfortable with that.
Mayor Mancino: Okay. And you may not be I think. Well I'm comfortable with it and I felt comfortable
with it in the beginning saying okay with the design. I don't know how the other council members feel.
And you may certainly you know go through it and take the time to do that Mark. I don't think there's any
problem.
Councilman Senn: ... after the fact so.
Councilman Mason: Well but we've had the packet for a while too. I guess I'm comfortable with what's
going on and I'm, hearing nothing else I'd like to call the question.
Mayor Mancino: Okay,...
Councilman Mason: Sure, I'm sorry I don't have my packet in front of me but I'd move to the award of
bid for contract for Bandimere and City Center Park as stated, in the amount of $1,508,648.90 to Ingram
Excavating. With the inclusion of the alternative bids as stated by the staff report.
Councilman Berquist: Second.
Mayor Mancino: And can you just say, and any contingency monies will come back to us?
Councilman Mason: As the Mayor just stated.
Mayor Mancino: Thank you.
Resolution #98-47: Councilman Mason moved, Councilman Berquist seconded to award the bids for
Bandimere and City Center Parks project to Ingram Excavating, accepting their base bid and
City Council Meeting - May 13, 1998
alternatives #2 and #3 for Bandimere Park and alternates #1 and #2 for City Center Park in the
amount of $1,508,648.90. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
(Councilman Mason left the meeting at this point and was not present to vote on the remaining items.)
AWARD OF BIDS, WATER TOWER PROJECT 97-1B-1 (FORMERLY 97-1-1)
Charles Folch: Alright, the packets we've just passed out, the first one you received here provides
information on the results of the bidding which occurred last Friday for the proposed Arboretum water
tower project. A total of four bids were received. The bids range from a low of $1,213,000.00 to a high of
$1,358,000.00, which are all of the estimates, or all of the bids received were below the engineer's estimate
of a million four. The variation of 10% amongst the bidders, the three bidders is actually very good for a
project like this. Actually the low bidder, Caldwell Tanks is out of Kentucky. Most of these are out of
state contractors as there are very few that are in this business across the country so that.
Councilman Berquist: Brown Steel out of Minneapolis?
Charles Folch: Brown Steel, no. Is out of Newman, Georgia and then Pitt Des Moines of course... So we
were pleased to receive at least three bids for this project and feel that we have had a good bidding climate
for that. We had our consultant engineer do a reference background back on Caldwell Tanks. They've
done a number of tanks here in the Minnesota area and have found to be, perform satisfactorily and the fact
that the consultant has worked with them on a particular project in the last few years so he has first hand
experience with this contractor. So we feel very comfortable going along with the consultant engineer's
recommendation to award this project to Caldwell Tanks at $1,213,000.00.
Mayor Mancino: Okay, thank you. I'm just thinking just a second to look this over.
Charles Folch: Take your time. You just got this now. That's understandable.
Mayor Mancino: Charles, I had asked you about approving this. We haven't approved.
Charles Folch: Good point.
Mayor Mancino: I didn't even have to finish. Thank you. You're reading my mind.
Charles Folch: I made myself a mental note all day long I was going to add that to this. We are currently
in the process of acquiring the property for this tower, which will be sited in the Arboretum Business Park.
In conjunction with the plat, the preliminary plat that has been presented before you. The transaction has
not officially taken place yet. It's in the process so we would recommend as, or add as a part of our
recommendation of approval that an official purchase agreement be executed for this land exchange prior
to the contractor actually being given the notice to proceed on the project.
Mayor Mancino: Okay, so that we have the land all figured out the way we want it, thank you. Appreciate
that. And when will we hear something on... ?
Charles Folch: I'm hoping by the end of next week we'll have something executed.
Mayor Mancino: Thank you. Any other questions? May I have a motion please.
City Council Meeting - May 13, 1998
Councilman Berquist: Move approval.
Mayor Mancino: Second.
Resolution #98-48: Councilman Berquist moved, Mayor Mancino seconded to award the bids for the
Arboretum Business Park Water Tower, Project 97-1B-1 to Caldwell Tanks in the amount of
$1,213,000.00 contingent upon an official purchase agreement be executed for this land exchange
prior to the contractor actually being given the notice to proceed on the project. All voted in favor
and the motion carried.
AWARD OF BIDS, PLEASANT VIEW ROAD MAINTENANCE OVERLAY~ PROJECT 98-5.
Anita Benson: Bids were opened on May 8th for the project. We received three bids with Midwest Asphalt
coming in as the low bidder at $92,680.00. Northwest Asphalt was the next bidder at $106,000.00 and
Expert Asphalt came in at $121,000.00. As mentioned earlier, we discussed Midwest Asphalt in regards to
the trail project and I feel that possibly we're seeing some cost benefit here because they're already
mobilized in town because you'll note the bid is substantially lower than the other two bids. So again we
do feel comfortable with our payment and performance bond requirements and are monitoring of the
projects in awarding projects.
Mayor Mancino: You'll have to monitor it because there again, there's a big difference between the high
bid and the low bid. Any other questions on this from council members?
Councilman Senn: Just out of curiousity, how big are your performance bonds on these things?
Charles Folch: 100%.
Mayor Mancino: Explain to me, take a second and explain to me how the performance bond works .... we
can just go in and use that money and do whatever we need to? I mean how involved is it?
Charles Folch: ... process for making, filing a claim with the bond company. And usually I believe it's,
they get a certain window. Once you notify the bond company, the bond company then contacts the
contractor and I think there's a, depending on the type of problems, there's a normal window of opportunity
to allow the contractor to rectify the situation before the bond company will actually... So there is a
process that's described within the bond document itself.
Mayor Mancino: ...
Councilman Senn: Your plans and specs are pretty tight I'm assuming. Where's your leeway? Soils? I
mean what, soil conditions. Where is the, where are your exposed areas on change orders? How's that.
Charles Folch: Well, any time you have the, some inherent unknowns which can be soil conditions that
vary from where you've taken, and have conditions and acts of God. Things like that on a project that can
change things. Typically it's more often than not change orders come about more often. I would say
probably 2/3, maybe 75% of our change orders on projects result from, we're out there doing something
and all of a sudden.., become aware there's something.., roughly about a third of the time you really have
City Council Meeting - May 13, 1998
a change order because something that's totally unknown and everybody missed it. This is a good time to
do this or finish this or add that or whatever.
Mayor Mancino: Anita, you reviewed also the trails so I think you felt pretty comfortable with the specs.
You thought they were very good when I talked to you about that. Engineering obviously as a city has also
reviewed the trail project and the specs that were drawn for that too.
Councilman Senn: But your main exposure is on soil conditions then basically? If they run into a soil
condition, we're going to evaluate it before you do anything anyway there, right?
Charles Folch: And on a trail, I mean soil conditions aren't as critical. You can build a trail a lot more, on
a lot more poor soil than you can over, that you want a nice road section that you want to hold up for 25
years.
Councilman Senn: Now on Pleasant View with the overlay though, I'm assuming.., have any soil issues.
That is strictly an overlay?
Charles Folch: We've got a couple of areas where we've got to do some cut out and patching. Our
maintenance crews are going to go in and do what's called the prep work before the overlay. These folks
can just come in and bring in their paver and just go to town so we're going to do the prep work. There's a
few areas that probably need to be cut out and just patched and things like that. Really we don't as a whole
Pleasant View Road really doesn't have any mushy spots that we...
Councilman Senn: But if there's repair work, I mean you're going to be doing it so you'll know that it's
solid.
Mayor Mancino: Okay, may I have a motion? Oh, excuse me.
Councilman Berquist: I have two quick questions and I won't take much time. In looking at the bid
tabulation, Midwest got the job because of their 25% lower cost per ton on material. That cost per ton hold
true with the trail project as well? I mean help me here. Why such a spread?
Anita Benson: I guess I would, I don't know what the actual cost per ton bid on the trail project was but I
would assume that it would be higher. A trail is, you're a lot less efficient in placing mix than you are on a
roadway. Why the spread between. I think that the contractor, obviously we don't have a bid item here for
mobilization and that's one area where I see that maybe we're really benefitting in that they did receive the
bid on the trail project. They're obviously intending to be mobilized in town. They won't have to be
moving equipment in a long distance.
Councilman Berquist: Did they know they were low prior to this being opened? They did? The other
anomaly was the bituminous curb. The high bidder quadrupled the cost on curb...
Councilman Senn: But you speced out the material they have to use in relationship to the asphalt...
Councilman Berquist: Move approval.
Mayor Mancino: Second.
City Council Meeting - May 13, 1998
Resolution #98-49: Councilman Berquist moved, Mayor Mancino seconded to award the bid for
Pleasant View Road maintenance overlay Project No. 98-5 to Midwest Asphalt Corporation in the
amount of $92,680.00. All voted in favor, except Councilman Senn who opposed, and the motion
carried with a vote of 2 to 1.
FINAL ACTION, BOARD OF REVIEW AND EQUALIZATION.
Mayor Mancino: Is there anyone here today?
Councilman Senn: We have administrative presentations too, by the way.
Mayor Mancino: Is there anyone here today that did not come on Monday night and would like to speak to
the Council on their property? I don't see anyone. Could you Todd, go out. Do you mind and see if he's
still here. Why don't we just wait for one minute and see if he's still around.
Councilman Senn: If he's not here, I thought maybe the easiest way to do it is why don't we take all the
ones first that we don't have any questions or whatever on and get those off the list so to speak.
Mayor Mancino: And make a motion for those.
Councilman Senn: And make a motion on those since I think probably I'm the one who has the most
extracts. Why don't I read my list and if there's one that I read that you guys would like to pull you know
versus approve, then speak up. Otherwise we'll at least get through all those up front.
Councilman Berquist: Before we do that can I, I want to make sure in my mind what we did on the green
acres. For instance.
Mayor Mancino: Barinsky's?
Councilman Berquist: Dolejsi. That was 2 to 2 as I recall. So what happened?
Mayor Mancino: It stays the same.
Councilman Berquist: It stays the same as what the assessor is recommending?
Councilman Senn: Yes. It goes to the County Board after this. The assessor doesn't have the power to,
I'm assuming to set it.
Councilman Berquist: Okay. And Barinsky we chose to leave that.
Mayor Mancino: Agricultural.
Councilman Berquist: Agricultural homestead. But is that also go to the County for interpretation?
Orlin Shafer: None of these will go anywhere except if the individual property owner brings them to the
county.
City Council Meeting - May 13, 1998
Councilman Berquist: Okay, and that's fine. So Dolejsi at current, if it stays the way it is now, your
recommendation will stand?
Orlin Shafer: Yep.
Councilman Berquist: And with Barinsky, we voted.
Orlin Shafer: You changed it from residential to ag and reduced the value.
Councilman Berquist: So the only way that that will.
Orlin Shafer: Go anywhere is if he goes to the County.
Councilman Berquist: And if they don't go to the County it stays?
Orlin Shafer: Stays just the way you set it.
Councilman Berquist: At the way we set it?
Orlin Shafer: Yep..
Councilman Berquist: And what about Degler?
Councilman Senn: When we go 2 by 2, I mean are we effectively passing it on to the County without a
recommendation?
Orlin Shafer: No. It stays just the way it is. It's up to the property owner then to take it further.
Mayor Mancino: That makes sense.
Orlin Shafer: It's like no action. 2 to 2 is no action.
Mayor Mancino: Todd, I assume you did not find him.
Todd Gerhardt: No.
Mayor Mancino: He did come here.
Orlin Shafer: He did come here and he was upstairs and he asked if he could have a chance to speak to the
Board and I said I think you would if you come downstairs about 4:00. And he was sitting behind me.
Todd Gerhardt: I had a gentleman call me up today wondering...
Orlin Shafer: He did say that he called and talked to you. Do you remember that gentleman? Did you
know him?
Councilman Berquist: Don was him name, according to his shirt.
City Council Meeting - May 13, 1998
Councilman Senn: The guy sitting back here had Don on his shirt.
Mayor Mancino: Well if he comes in again we'll just stop and...
Orlin Shafer: That's fine. That's fine. I just didn't want him to be missed.
Mayor Mancino: If we act on him we'll re-open it.
Councilman Senn: If he comes back.
Mayor Mancino: Okay, Councilman Senn.
Councilman Senn: Let me move approval and I'll just go down and read.
Mayor Mancino: But don't go too fast.
Councilman Senn: No, I'll read our reference number is that okay?
Mayor Mancino: Yes, 1, 2, 3, 4. Hold on.
Councilman Senn: Even though he can read it long distance...
Orlin Shafer: Mark, when you're reading you're going to read the ones that you want to discuss?
Councilman Senn: No. These are the ones that we're going to now pass on in one broad motion saying
they're all okay.
Councilman Berquist: Alright, go ahead.
Councilman Senn: Alright, are we ready?
Councilman Berquist: Yes.
Councilman Senn: Okay, number 3. No problems there? Okay. Number 7. Number 17. Number 18.
Number 20. Number 25. Number 33. Number 37.
Mayor Mancino: I had number 36.
Councilman Senn: It's okay with you? I'm just reading the ones that are okay.
Councilman Berquist: You're okay with 37. That's...
Councilman Senn: Yeah, 37. Because there's a reduction there already to accommodate that so 37. Okay,
39 is okay. 40 is okay. 44 is okay.
Councilman Berquist: I had a question on 44. Only insofar as I think the appraiser is right in line with
value but what about the properties that are adjacent to it? And that would indicate that all the properties
are over assessed. And I have no idea what the comps are but that's the only reason I had...
City Council Meeting - May 13, 1998
Councilman Senn: Yeah, but that we'll deal with through action on the other properties.
this one was okay.
Councilman
Councilman
Councilman
That's why I said
Berquist: But this is the only one that's in that particular area.
Senn: Well should we pull it? I mean I don't want to.
Berquist: Let's pull it.
Councilman Senn: Okay, so 44 we are not including in this motion then. Okay. 45. If I start going too
fast for anybody, let me know. No, I didn't say 46. 48. 49.50. 52. 54. Is there a hesitation there?
Councilman Berquist: Well the only question I had is there's a number of them where the valuations are
the same and why they went through the rigamaroll to file is a little bit, it wasn't explained. Or I just
wanted to ask. Okay, 54.
Councilman Senn: Okay, 54 was the last one I left off with. Now going down to 57. Then to number 62.
Councilman Berquist: I had the same question. If in fact that area was over valued, will the rest of the
area get corrected?
Mayor Mancino: Because I live in that area.
Councilman Senn: So do you want to pull that?
Councilman Berquist: 62 and 63 are the same.
Councilman Senn: So do you want to just pull 62?
Councilman Berquist: Yeah.
Councilman Senn: Okay, then 62's not included in this motion. Okay, then64. 65. 66. 67. 69. 70. 71.
72. 74.
Mayor Mancino: We've already done 73. Okay.
Councilman Senn: Yeah, I'm not repeating what we've done. Let's see, the next one is 77. Then 78.
Next one is 81. Next one is 91. Then 92. Then 97. 98. 99. 100. 104. 109. And that's it. So that is
my motion to approve all those as submitted by, or recommendation submitted by the assessor. I think the
total is about 36 of them I think.
Councilman Berquist: I'd like to, and I'm not going to have any problem with that. I do have a question on
97 and 98 of the assessors.
Councilman Senn: Do you want to pull those then?
City Council Meeting - May 13, 1998
Councilman Berquist: Quick question and maybe they can give me an explanation to and we'll go from
there. That's not going to affect the valuation but I want to know how the information got wrong to begin
with.
Craig Paulson: Councilman, I put on, well most of these pulled deck permits at the beginning of the year
and I also check the building records looking for any indication of inspections or plans. I get the square
footage. Not seeing any notes I guess I just assumed since the permit was taken out at the beginning of the
year, the project was probably done which 99% of the time it usually is. I went ahead and put the value on
and which in these two cases the projects didn't occur so the improvement value back off.
Councilman Berquist: So you're saying you look for permits, as evidently permits were pulled for both of
these and then you look for inspections to... the permit?
Craig Paulson: Right and square footage and.
Councilman Berquist: And if those aren't there, you still add the value?
Craig Paulson: Well, I take a look at when the permit was pulled. At the beginning of the year. Most
likely at the end of the year it's complete, which 99% of the time.
Orlin Shafer: Mr. Berquist, I want you to understand right now that that's not going to happen again. If
they pull a permit, these people are going to go look at this stuff. They're not going to add a value without
viewing the property. That is not going to happen again. Thank you.
Councilman Senn: But Steve, I didn't pull those ones because it indicates on our forms that there were
improvements so I mean, it was just the assumption. It's a good question but just the assumption was
exactly as it was.
Councilman Berquist: For instance, we have... I mean why? How did we get there?
Councilman Senn: ... didn't occur. Because again it matches back to the dollars that are shown above in
terms of the improvements so.
Councilman Berquist: Okay, so 97 and 98 then will be included in your motion?
Councilman Senn: Yep. Okay.
Mayor Mancino: So can I have a motion?
Councilman Senn: Motion's on the floor.
Mayor Mancino: I'm sorry, I didn't hear it.
Councilman Senn: With the end of that list I move approval of the assessors recommendation on all of
those I just read.
Mayor Mancino: Okay, I will second that.
City Council Meeting - May 13, 1998
Councilman Senn moved, Mayor Mancino seconded to approve the following reference numbers as
recommended by the County Assessor: 3, 7, 17, 18, 20, 25, 33, 37, 39, 40, 45, 48, 49, 50, 52, 54, 57,
64, 65, 66, 67, 69, 70, 71, 72, 74, 77, 78, 81, 91, 92, 97, 98, 99, 100, 104, and 109. All voted in favor
and the motion carried.
Mayor Mancino: Okay, why don't you go through the ones that you would like to...that weren't on that
list for a few minutes.
Councilman Senn: Can we just, for ease of this start at the top of the list and just go down?
Councilman Berquist: There's nothing that.
Councilman Senn: Otherwise it's going to get real...
Mayor Mancino: But he may not have any so we can go. Or he may just have two.
Councilman Berquist: Well I've got, but no. We've already talked about them. Yeah, I mean everything
that Mark pulled, or approved is stuff that I didn't have questions on...
Mayor Mancino: Okay. Let's start with number 1. Or where would you like to start Councilman Senn?
Councilman Senn: Yeah, number 1 is fine. Number 1, number 2, I guess really tie together. No, I just
said they tie together. I mean basically one's the house and one's the tennis court, right? And the main
thing I'm just wondering here, I mean we just get a total value you know from last year and then you show
effectively what's going on this year. Where's the increase occurring? On the land value or on the
improvement value?
Craig Paulson: Land value.
Councilman Senn: So it's purely land value?
Craig Paulson: Right.
Councilman Senn: And so purely on a land value basis.., basis here, you know to treat everybody equitably
and that's one thing I just want to understand. Okay, alright. With that I would, unless there's other
questions on it I would move approval of item 1 and 2.
Mayor Mancino: The way it is? Yeah, I would second that.
Councilman Senn moved, Mayor Mancino seconded to approve the estimated market value for
Reference 1 and 2 per the County Assessor's recommendation. All voted in favor and the motion
carried.
Councilman Senn: Okay. 4.
Craig Paulson: A program was passed by the legislature a couple of years ago. Improvements you make
to a property, if the property is more than 35 years old. Between 35 and 70 years old, you can get 50% of
your improvement amount deferred for 10 years. The value of your improvement amount. Defer it for 10
City Council Meeting - May 13, 1998
years and then phased in over a 5 year period at the end of 10 years. If it's older than 70 years old then
you get 100%.
Mayor Mancino: What are the requirements? Qualifications.
Craig Paulson: Well you have to have it homesteaded. You have to have a house that's at least 35 years
old. Under $150,000.00 in value.
Councilman Berquist: For the property?
Mayor Mancino: Okay, good. Well it's good to know about t hat.
Craig Paulson: And the property owner has up to 3 years to apply.
Orlin Shafer: Actually the property owner has, from the time, first he has to have a building permit.
They're not eligible without a building permit. He has until July 1 of the year that the assessor would put
the market value on the property so that would be, if we put the value on January 2 of '98, he has until July
of '98 to apply for this allowance.
Mayor Mancino: And so I'm wondering you know about our center city. Our core city in Chanhassen
where a lot of the prices are there and they're more than.., people who may need to do something.
Councilman Senn: It might be nice to publicize it.
Orlin Shafer: We do. And we do I believe with the building department.
Mayor Mancino: Good to publicize it. Excuse me.
Orlin Shafer: I think the building department is still handing out the information with building permits for
any older property. They of course wouldn't hand it out for a new house but they would for the older
properties, right.
Mayor Mancino: I'm talking about some of the older property and the...
Orlin Shafer: I think upstairs they still are making copies and handing it out.
Mayor Mancino: Okay. That would be very good to know about. Pardon Todd?
Todd Gerhardt: I think we put it in the newsletter.
Orlin Shafer: I don't know if it's every time.
Councilman Senn: I've never seen it.
Orlin Shafer: It's on the back of the assessment notice too.
Councilman Senn: I'll move number 4 with a valuation of $96,700.00.
City Council Meeting - May 13, 1998
Mayor Mancino: What makes you say that?
Orlin Shafer: Excuse me.
Mayor Mancino: It was at $99,600.00?
Councilman Senn: Correct.
Orlin Shafer: You are adjusting the value?
Councilman Senn: Correct. I am moving item number 4 on the basis of a value of $96,700.00.
Mayor Mancino: And that is a what?...
Councilman Senn: That is about 3% increase.
Mayor Mancino: I'll second that.
Councilman Berquist: I want to understand the methodology. How are you getting to that? You say it's
about 3%.
Councilman Senn: Well it's not precisely 3% but I mean where I'm getting there from is, what I've been
able to figure out when we were talking strictly about land values and if you go through all of this
information and you purely look at land issues, okay. And look on the basis of separating value between
land and structure. Okay. The general increase for land in our city is about 3%. Okay. So if we're going
to treat everybody the same, okay. The way I look at these is to say okay, let's go look at some comps and
say okay, are there comps? There are comps both ways. I mean no offense, there are comps to what Orlin
says. There's comps to what I'm saying and I can do that on every one of these, okay. What I'm saying is
in this particular case there's no improvement value at issue. Okay. The value increase in my mind should
be... approximately 3%.
Councilman Berquist: And that's on the land value only? No, that's on the entire property.
Councilman Senn: Well, it's on the whole property, correct. Because we don't have last year's separation
Steve. I can't calculate you know based on last year's land value because I don't know what it is. Okay.
And that's one of the problems with our base data but I mean, I can't.
Orlin Shafer: It really, ifI might interject, it really wouldn't be proper for you as a board to isolate that
value, land or building unless it was specifically said there was a building that...
Councilman Senn: Sometimes it's better not to get into it too deep so to speak.
Councilman Berquist: So you said 96.
Councilman Senn: 96,700.
City Council Meeting - May 13, 1998
Councilman Senn moved, Mayor Mancino seconded to approve the estimated market value for
Reference Number 4, Tim Lindquist, PID 25.0033800 from $99,600.00 to $96,700.00. All voted in
favor and the motion carried.
Councilman Senn: On number 5, my main question here is that, they bring up the trail issue which I think
is a real legitimate issue. Given it's impact on that property. Okay, and I mean granted, to me with trail
projects you have to look at the individual property because some properties the trail's you know,
thousands of feet away out on the road and you know I'm not going to get real excited about it one way or
another. But I mean other places you put in a trail and it's directly visible to the property and there's an
impact. Okay so they raise it as an issue. You give us kind of the counter but there's absolutely no
mention in the counter about the trail issue.
Mayor Mancino: The trail.
Councilman Senn: What I'm trying to get at is where's, by the fact that you're not saying anything on it,
is that you're saying that there's no consideration, there shouldn't be any consideration because of the trail?
I mean how do you respond to the property owner in that case?
Orlin Shafer: If I might. When we study the sales and something like the trail system comes up, we study
sales dealing with trails. Any sale then that we would have that's, having a trail impacted some way.
Physically impacted. In other words, it's an easement or something that is there on the physical property.
We study that and see if we can correlate or actually account for changing the value due to that individual
item. It's very difficult to isolate that. Some people that like the exercise so call like to have the idea of a
trail in their back yard so that they can walk outside and get on it. The next person says hey, that trail just
drives me nuts. People are walking in my back yard all the time. So it's a very, very difficult thing to
quantify. Most often, and I don't know why it wasn't mentioned here in this instance and that, we'd have
to have Craig explain. But most often when we look at this we roll all the sticks together and appraise a
property and say okay. These strings of property in this location are selling for $5,000.00 less than those
across the street that don't have the trail. Then we can say it's a trail impact. We really haven't found that
anywhere in the trail system in Chanhassen. There's no isolated case that says I'm impacted by a trail and
therefore I paid $5,000.00 less. You know it just doesn't come up in our conversations with buyers and
sellers, why they're buying and why they're selling. Whether or not they appreciate or do not appreciate a
trail. It will in a casual conversation. That says yeah, I like that trail. I like to get on it and go for my run
or whatever it might be. But that doesn't often happen either. There's really no pro and con. There are a
few things that happen when a property backs up against a rec area where you've got kids playing ball. A
lot of noise for a few hours a night. Something like this. People tend to say, geez. I'll be glad when my
kids are old enough so I can move away from this park or something like that. You know and we have
tracked sales like that and there are times when we found yes, this neighborhood has so much activity going
on in that park, that people that live within 200 feet of that park sell just to get out of there. And they'll sell
at a reduced market. We have seen that, yes. But it's not a continuous thing. The next buyer might be a
house full of kids. They enjoy the heck out of living there.
Councilman Senn: Yeah, I mean I understand what you're saying but I'm just saying the rule of thumb
that I've always followed as it relates to trails and stuff, that I found always to be true in the industry, was
I agree with you. There are people who want to be by trails and there are people who don't want to be by
trails. But when you are by a trail, what it does is let's say you're in a price range of house that constitutes
60% of the market. Okay. And now whether there's a trail or not a trail, you've just taken your market
and split it in half which means the only people in that 60% of the market who will look at this house, will
City Council Meeting - May 13, 1998
be people who want to be by a trail versus people who don't want to be by a trail. So what you're doing is
you're reducing your market segment. As you reduce your market segment, the rule of thumb in real estate
is.
Orlin Shafer: Well yeah.
Mayor Mancino: I'm going to let you guys go about 2 more seconds because I pulled this one for...
Orlin Shafer: Reduced quantity of availability drives the market up as opposed to an excess of the same
property will drive the market down. So yeah, I think a true test would be where you have an existing area
and you put a trail through. A retrofit. Now what happens.
Councilman Senn: It says pulling out trees and it's doing everything in this case. That's going to affect the
value of the property dramatically.
Orlin Shafer: Well, I guess I'd like to have you help me quantify it Mark, to be quite frank.
Mayor Mancino: Okay. I did pull this one because they live next door to me and I know the house and I
know that it has 7.7% increase and I just felt that that was too high. I know that they haven't done
anything to the home. I know it's not in a reappraisal area. I know that other homes on Crestview aren't
selling for what they're, what the asking price. In fact they've had to lower them. I think it's the Miller's
house or something on Crestview. I've seen where the trail is going to go. We are going to be building a
retaining wall that will go right next to Galpin Boulevard as close as it possibly can. It will be on the east
side of the swale so it's not in their yard. It's not in their back yard.., it's very far away from them.
Whether they want it or not, that's certainly up to them but I don't think it will affect their living style, etc
and we're really going out of our way to save the trees. There are a couple that will come down and the
ones that will, the storms have taken a lot of the branches already down but the new ashes, the young ashes
that are there, we are going to keep. And we have met with them but I felt that 7.7% was just way too
much for that home which is a very modest home and hasn't had anything added to it for one year at least.
So I would like to have it, I don't know whatit, I don't have an amount but approximately.
Councilman Senn: How about ifI try one for you? I'd move $140,200.00.
Councilman Berquist: Second.
Councilman Senn moved, Councilman Berquist seconded to approve the estimated market value for
item 5, Doris Nikolai, PID #25.0034100 at $140,200.00. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Councilman Senn: I don't know how much you guys want to get onto discussion in each and every one of
these because we'll be forever. If you guys don't have a question, I don't have additional question. I just
have my valuation and I would move $153,500.00.
Councilman Berquist: Second.
Councilman Senn moved, Councilman Berquist seconded to approve the estimated market value for
item 6, Bruce Mattson, PID# 25.0034200 at $153,500.00. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
City Council Meeting - May 13, 1998
Councilman Senn: Number 9, I was really confused on. He's got a jump of 126% over last year's value,
yet, you know the first place I go look in is new improvements. I figured there were going to be new
improvements. I don't see any new improvements so that kind of put my red flag up and said, what's
causing this increase of 126% with no new improvements. There's no way we could have been that far off.
Councilman Berquist: Do you remember this woman?
Councilman Senn: Oh yes.
Mayor Mancino: Well I... from $84,500.00 to $189,100.
Councilman Berquist: I have $123.
Mayor Mancino: Then I screwed up. I put up another 100.
Councilman Berquist: Now this land is not green acres. This land is not farmed. It's 12 ½ acres of.
Mayor Mancino: ... 84,5. Something is weird...
Ann Wyse: ...try to bring these properties up to market value. We're supposed to assess at market value.
Mayor Mancino: But last year and the year before, I mean.
Ann Wyse: The taxable value is $111,000.00... limited market value.
Councilman Senn: Oh, say that again? You have a limited market value on this one?
Orlin Shafer: Most of these, any property that went up over 10% will have limited market value kick in
and that will prevent the tax from hitting market value for at least 2 years.
Councilman Senn: But that's not down here.
Orlin Shafer: No. we can't deal with that number because that's fluctuates with...
Councilman Senn: Okay, that's the...they're taxed on.
Orlin Shafer: Yeah.
Councilman Senn: And then how rapidly, I mean they're...
Orlin Shafer: ...two years.
Councilman Senn: Okay, because they're still paying that for 2 years at the rate you're talking about.
They'll still fall within it.
Orlin Shafer: It will take, now it's probably 3 years at least because they changed the formula. It used to
be 10% or 30%, whichever was greater. Now it's 10% and 25%. So it would probably take 3 years now
to hit the actual market value.
City Council Meeting - May 13, 1998
Councilman Senn: Okay, but this property had to be evaluated 4 years ago and even 4 years ago it can't be
off this much. And the other part is, you've got your programs that you run through in the mid years even
not evaluating you know these individual structures in this part of the city, then why didn't that pick it up?
I mean I'm really perplexed when I see one like this with no basis.
Orlin Shafer: This is a property, and Ms. Michel talked about it. She has not really made any
improvements. I think I was probably the last person from our office that was in that house. Actually
viewed the inside of the property.
Councilman Senn: How many years ago?
Orlin Shafer: 5.
Councilman Senn: Really?
Orlin Shafer: Yeah. And at that time I stated to her that yes, you are living you know 35-40 years behind
the times. I mean when you look at the modem houses. Although she has done some quality repair work
and things like that. We, in an effort to keep her in that property, have been very gentle with this person.
She has a lot of excess land but to be quite fair to the rest of the neighbors we could no longer do this.
That's really what prompted the additional review, plus the fact that Ann and I discussed this a long time.
The feeling was that we were still going to try to limit the increase, but give it enough so that the rest of the
neighbors would be comfortable with, because there's an equality thing out here.
Councilman Senn: No, I understand.
Orlin Shafer: We're still not to the rest of the neighbors.
Councilman Senn: No, I understand.
Orlin Shafer: It will take more.
Councilman Senn: But I mean effectively when you take an action like this in our shoes, you're effectively
telling that person they either have to sell their house and move in two years or sell off their excess land and
develop it.
Orlin Shafer: Yeah, the other way we could have done it Councilman is to put the true value on here,
which would probably have put it up close to $300,000.00 or $400,000.00 and then let you reduce it back
to whatever number you want. That excess land she's sitting on, just like Barinsky's is very, very valuable.
So we have a corporate farm just south of the railroad tracks that is sitting there at the same value that Mr.
Degler's now is. They do not get a chance for green acres or anything else. They pay tax on the
$800,000.00 as farmland. And this person is sitting here with about an excess, I would think she's
probably got about 6 acres in excess. Some is wetlands. She can't use it. I mean that's a given.
Councilman Berquist: She's got 6 acres of developable land, is that what you just said?
Orlin Shafer: Yes. They would do the same thing they did up north of here on the other side of the road
when who was it, Gram or whoever it was had a subdivision in there and they saved the yellow brick house
City Council Meeting - May 13, 1998
and sold it off later for $300,000.00 with an acre of land. I don't know who it was, I don't remember. But
it's one of those situations where someone with some money can come in and really make this one of the
finest old Chaska brick houses around.
Councilman Senn: Well I mean I understand where you're going with it but the number I came up with as
far as where we should go this year is the same thing that you're saying the limited market value is. You
know I came up with 110. You're at 111 or whatever on limited market vlaue. I mean what if we take that
approach and do it just.
Orlin Shafer: Well what would happen is we would back down to a number that she would not get limited
and then she would, I mean it'd be a horse apiece. She'd still pay on that number. Now I don't know what
that number is. That's why we don't get into limited market value because that fluctuates with the formula
that they use.
Councilman Senn: See I just, I really hate getting into those things because...
Orlin Shafer: Well you're anticipating taxes.
Councilman Senn: They're confusing enough as there is. I mean now you introduce an element that we
supposedly kind of got rid of years ago... I'd rather just set the market value for this year at 110.
Orlin Shafer: You're truly obligated to discuss the market value. And the limited is beyond your control.
That's a legislative thing so.
Mayor Mancino: So 1117
Councilman Senn: 111.
Ann Wyse: ... value and when this property sells and...
Orlin Shafer: Ann, the Board has a decision on this.
Councilman Berquist: So your motion is 111 ?
Councilman Senn: 111.
Councilman Berquist: Second.
Councilman Senn moved, Councilman Berquist seconded to approve the estimated market value for
item item 9, Marion Michel, PID# 25.0220610 at $111,000.00. All voted in favor and the motion
carried.
Councilman Senn: Number 10. I would move a value of $201,300.00.
Councilman Berquist: Is that roughly the 3?
Councilman Senn: That's roughly about that, yes.
City Council Meeting - May 13, 1998
Councilman Berquist: Second.
Councilman Senn moved, Councilman Berquist seconded to approve the estimated market value for
item 10, Ronald Entinger, PID# 25.0220630 at $201,300.00. All voted in favor and the motion
carried.
Councilman Senn: Number 13.
Mayor Mancino: Land value is way too low on this one.
Councilman Senn: Yeah. Except I'm afraid we might be harming ourselves at this point by getting carried
away on it. The only reason I pulled it because I just did, I mean I hate to just worsen our position at this
point.
Mayor Mancino: I move that this one stay the same. Is there a second?
Councilman Senn: Stay the same as it is now or as it is recommended?
Mayor Mancino: As it is recommended.
Councilman Berquist: How many units is this?
Mayor Mancino: 77.
Councilman Berquist: 70 units.
Councilman Senn: 170.
Councilman Berquist: Todd, would you mind getting me a calculator someplace.
Councilman Senn: Well 170 units would be approximately just under what, $20,000.00 per unit, is that
right? I think that's right. About $18,000.00-$19,000.00 per unit. Something like that.
Councilman Berquist: Okay, I'll second that.
Mayor Mancino moved, Councilman Berquist seconded to approve the estimated market value for
Lakeview Hills LLC, PID#25.0250100 at $3,520,000.00. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Councilman Senn: Okay, 14.
Mayor Mancino: Is that the seminary site?
Councilman Senn: Yeah, that's the seminary fen site. Odin's probably going to fall over in his grave here
when I say this but I thought this one was awfully low. Based on every analysis I did and every direction I
did it... buy it tomorrow for anywhere near what you've got it on.
Orlin Shafer: To be quite frank about it, I think this was an error. But once we've committed to the
records we can't change it without some action. I don't think the value should have been adjusted
City Council Meeting - May 13, 1998
downward. To be quite frank about it. The property was valued in essence without the buildings. We use
the buildings as really a depreciation factor on that property at one point in time. Just like two years ago
and so the fact that they're removed now or condemned really doesn't change that value but in the process.
Mayor Mancino: Well part of it is also when it comes into MUSA. I mean that has probably played some
into it.
Orlin Shafer: We simple are locked into this value. When something happens like this.
Councilman Senn: You are right and we can change it?
Orlin Shafer: Yeah, and we go in and make the change and assist them and before it's clearly thought
through, we can't change it again. We publish those numbers.
Councilman Senn: Well that's the same argument as the one above it then. I mean you know, that's the
problem. I mean how do you do these? In reality it won't make any difference in condemnation because
they're going to bring in and do appraisals and you're going to be fighting over appraisals and everything.
I would move $213,500.00 on this one. Do you want to know how I got that?
Mayor Mancino: Yeah.
Councilman Senn: Their last year's value was $197,500. I honestly thing removing the structures
increased the value of their property rather than decreased it but I am being more than fair and I'm
effectively increasing the land value about the same amount of money we're looking at raising the other
land values, which I think is more than fair. If I actually assigned what I thought the increase in value on
this was because of removal in the structures, I tell you it'd be much, much higher than that in my mind.
Mayor Mancino: Well plus the fact when the.., be removing, you suggested keeping the trees so...
Councilman Berquist: You're saying you're at what? 203?
Councilman Senn: $213,500.
Orlin Shafer: If I might interject. What we will have to do if this increase goes through is to notify this
property owner. Allow them to appeal it in addition to the County Board of Review. So give that some
thought and if you want us to handle it at the office, that's fine. In a way it's a formality because they
would still go to the county board anyway.
Councilman Senn: If they don't like it right.
Orlin Shafer: Right.
Mayor Mancino: I'll second that.
Councilman Berquist: It seems like a pretty...I don't think all 20 acres is useable. If I just use 10 an acre,
that's $200,000.00 and now we're more than that. It's way down there. Outside the MUSA. There's
no...property that has very limited appeal at this point because of where it's at. Because it's not...and they
can't be serviced.
City Council Meeting - May 13, 1998
Councilman Senn: Well, but either could Degler's the other night.
Councilman Berquist: I understand.
Councilman Senn: And Degler's value for their land was far in excess of what we're suggesting here.
Now granted this may be a little further out of the MUSA line but it's also, there's other ways to look at
this one and probably come in earlier if the service came from somewhere else.
Councilman Berquist: I just, you know I would be in favor of leaving it where it's at or if the motion was
200. I think 213,500 is just ridiculous. Just outrageous.
Councilman Senn: You think that's too high?
Councilman Berquist: I think it's too high.
Councilman Senn moved, Mayor Mancino seconded to approve the estimated market value for item
14, Emerald Ventures LLC, PID# 25.0350100 at $213,500.00. All voted in favor, except Councilman
Berquist who opposed, and the motion carried with a vote of 2 to 1.
Councilman Senn: Okay, number 15 is the next one. On number 15 I would move a value of $99,600.
Councilman Berquist: Second.
Councilman Senn moved, Councilman Berquist seconded to approve the estimated market value for
item 15, Karen Vavrichek, PID# 25.0600010 at $99,600.00. All voted in favor and the motion
carried.
Councilman Senn: On number 16 1 would move a value of $100,700.00.
Councilman Berquist: Second.
Councilman Senn moved, Councilman Berquist seconded to approve the estimated market value for
item 16, Leonard & Marlene Dusoski, PID# 25.1600110 at $100,700.00. All voted in favor and the
motion carried.
Councilman Senn: On the next one, number 19. Number 19 is going from a previous year's value of
$900.00 to a current value of $10,000.00 which is a 344% increase. Now I know we're not talking about
big bucks here but I'm just trying to understand again why... It went from $900.00 to $10,000.00 and they
backed it off to 4. So I mean I'm just saying, somebody thought it was supposed to go up to 10 in the first
place. Granted it's back down to 4 but I mean whether you're splitting hairs there or not, I mean there's
still this huge deviation yet.
Orlin Shafer: Well, and Ann will have to explain it but I think this is a situation where you find that you
might have a buildable lot so the value might be there. You find in further inspection of the actual property
you don't have. You have some useable land but it might not be a stand alone.
City Council Meeting - May 13, 1998
Councilman Senn: Except this one would be just the opposite. You thought it was not a buildable lot and
you found out it was and that's why it's jumping?
Ann Wyse: I thought it was possibly buildable but is was part used as part of his homestead so I valued it
at 10. It does include a pond but then I talked with him further, checked with the city and felt that it is not
buildable. So I backed off on the value but it still has value. More than $900.00 because.
Orlin Shafer: It still added to his total...
Councilman Senn: But it's added to him homestead but you're already in relationship to valuing his
homestead though, you're already considering the neighborhood and the surroundings and all that sort of
thing.
Orlin Shafer: Right, but this was a stand alone parcel.
Councilman Senn: I understand. It's not developable and effectively has a big drainage pond on it and
there's nothing you can ever do with it anyway.
Orlin Shafer: We find all this out.
Councilman Senn: It should be really folded into his parcel and it'd be a non issue right?
Orlin Shafer: Right. We'd probably add $4,000.00 to his overall value and that'd be the end of it.
Councilman Senn: You really think so, that much?
Orlin Shafer: Well I would think so because of the size then of the total property you're dealing with.
Ann Wyse: The value of the lot based on, you know a lot of it's based on the size.
Orlin Shafer: Size, location, site. Other amenities.
Councilman Berquist: This is epitome of... sharing.
Councilman Senn: Okay, I'll move the 4 then.
Mayor Mancino: Second.
Councilman Senn moved, Mayor Mancino seconded to approve the estimated market value for item
19, Michael J. Wegler, PID# 25.1600420 at $4,000.00. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Councilman Senn: Well let's keep moving. I'll move on number 21, which is the next one, a value of
$148,400.00.
Councilman Senn moved, Mayor Mancino seconded to approve the estimated market value for item
21, Donald & Sigfrid Sennes, PID# 25.1600500 at $148,400.00. All voted in favor and the motion
carried.
City Council Meeting - May 13, 1998
Councilman Senn: On number 22, I'll move a value of $54,200.00.
Councilman Berquist: Second.
Councilman Senn moved, Councilman Berquist seconded to approve the estimated market value for
item 22, Donald & Sigfrid Sennes, PID# 25.1600510 at $54,200.00. All voted in favor and the motion
carried.
Councilman Senn: On number 24, I'll move a value of $177,200.00.
Mayor Mancino: I'll second that.
Councilman Senn moved, Mayor Mancino seconded to approve the estimated market value for item
24, Chris & Cindy Anderson, PID# 25.1600650 at $177,200.00. All voted in favor and the motion
carried.
Councilman Senn: On number 26 1 would move $121,300.00.
Councilman Berquist: Second.
Councilman Senn moved, Councilman Berquist seconded to approve the estimated market value for
item 26, Gary & Jacqueline Hoffman, PID# 25.1600770 at $121,300.00. All voted in favor and the
motion carried.
Councilman Senn: Number 27 1 would move a value of $85,200.00.
Councilman Berquist: Second.
Councilman Senn moved, Councilman Berquist seconded to approve the estimated market value for
item 27, Irma Heydt Degler, PID# 25.1601060 at $85,200.00. All voted in favor and the motion
carried.
Councilman Senn: On number 28 I would move a value, oh I'm sorry. I should have said okay on that
one. I'm sorry. I move the assessor's recommendation of $2,800.00.
Councilman Berquist: This is another situation exactly like the other one I would guess.
Councilman Senn: No, the base value here was $2,600.00 and it's going to $2,800.00.
Councilman Berquist: Then I would assume that the piece is junk but it's contiguous to the other piece,
therefore it has value.
Orlin Shafer: And his homestead extends over to it.
Councilman Senn: Yeah, but you're just raising it $200.00...
City Council Meeting - May 13, 1998
Councilman Senn moved, Mayor Mancino seconded to approve the estimated market value for item
28, James & Elizabeth Knop, PID# 15.1601690 at $2,800.00. All voted in favor and the motion
carried.
Councilman Senn: Number 29 1 would move a value of $106,300.00.
Mayor Mancino: Second.
Councilman Senn moved, Mayor Mancino seconded to approve the estimated market value for item
29, James & Elizabeth Knop, PID# 25.1601700 at $106,300.00. All voted in favor and the motion
carried.
Councilman Senn: On number 30 1 would move a value of $99,200.00.
Councilman Berquist: Okay, I'm fine with that but why did you do that there and not on the number 167...
Councilman Senn: That was generally just looking at the general you know condition of the structure and
all that sort of stuff there. And the house needs a fair amount of work.
Councilman Berquist: And the other one did not?
Councilman Senn: Yeah, not anywhere at least in my mind anyway, near as much as this one. This one
needs a lot of updating.
Councilman Berquist: Second.
Councilman Senn moved, Councilman Berquist seconded to approve the estimated market value for
item 30, Joyce Ann Holloway, PID#25.1601720 at $99,200.00. All voted in favor and the motion
carried.
Councilman Senn: Item 31 I would move a value of $129,400.00.
Mayor Mancino: Second.
Councilman Senn moved, Mayor Mancino seconded to approve the estimated market value for item
31, Jeff Kleiner, PID# 25.1602180 at $129,400.00. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Councilman Senn: Number 32 1 would move a value of $185,500.00.
Mayor Mancino: Second.
Councilman Berquist: Wait a minute. Hang on, hang on. I have a question on here.
Councilman Senn: Because I thought it was over valued in the first place last year without the
improvements.
Councilman Berquist: You think so?
City Council Meeting - May 13, 1998
Orlin Shafer: Well, yeah what the homeowner probably interpretting the increase in value as a new
improvement when the new improvement has to be looked at, what does it add to the total property?
That's where our numbers come from. It's not what it costs him to build the deck or whatever it might
have been.
Councilman Senn: I just tried to look at it in terms of like other houses in the area.
Councilman Berquist: Okay, and what did you propose?
Councilman Senn: I came up with $185,500.
Mayor Mancino:...
Councilman Berquist: I had $194,600.00.
Councilman Senn moved, Councilman Berquist seconded to approve the estimated market value for
item 32, Bennett & Sharon Morgan, PID# 25.1620090 at $185,500.00. All voted in favor and the
motion carried.
Councilman Senn: Number 34 is the next one. I would move a value of $129, 600.00.
Mayor Mancino: I'll second that.
Councilman Senn moved, Mayor Mancino seconded to approve the estimated market value for item
34, Jim Duchene, PID# 25.1620200 at $129,600.00. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Councilman Senn: On number 35 I would move a value of $143,000.00.
Councilman Berquist: May I ask a question... ? This house and the 2 or 3 houses adjacent to it are on a,
this one is on a comer, what I would consider to be a fairly major thoroughfare. It goes right by
McDonald's. The house looks out the back at McDonald's. That stuffs all factored in there? I look at
$143,000.00. I look at that house versus this house, and this house is valued at $2,000.00, your valuation
is $3,000.00 more than my house. That does not seem right.
Ann Wyse: Well I looked, when...
Councilman Berquist: Factored in the fact that it backs up into McDonald's and...
Ann Wyse: Yeah... a lot of trees there.
Councilman Senn: I think we're... I put it at 143.
Councilman Berquist: I'll second.
Councilman Senn moved, Councilman Berquist seconded to approve the estimated market value for
item 35, Tom Kotsonas, PID# 25.1800380 at $143,000.00. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Councilman Senn: We're on 36. On item 36 1 move a value of $150,600.00.
City Council Meeting - May 13, 1998
Councilman Berquist: Tell me the methodology there. That being.., establishes the market value. How can
they drop it?
Councilman Senn: I have other comparable homes in the area sales.
Orlin Shafer: They paid too much right Mark.
Councilman Senn: They paid too much. There's other houses identical to this one that are assessed less...
Mayor Mancino: What'd you come up with?
Councilman Senn: I said $150,600.00. It's not that different than what was there but if you guys don't
like that I'll move $152,100.00. I don't care.
Mayor Mancino: Okay, $152,100, I'll second.
Councilman Senn moved, Councilman Berquist seconded to approve the estimated market value for
item 36, Carlos Cadavid, PID# 25.1820040 at $152,100.00. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Councilman Senn: Number 38, I'd move $158,100.00.
Mayor Mancino: I second it.
Councilman Senn moved, Mayor Mancino seconded to approve the estimated market value for item
38, Dale Mrozinski, PID# 25.1820440 at $158,100.00. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Councilman Senn: Number 41, I would move $117,180.00 as per the appraisal.
Orlin Shafer: Would you round?
Councilman Senn: Yes, I'm sorry. $117,200.00.
Councilman Berquist: Second.
Councilman Senn moved, Councilman Berquist seconded to approve the estimated market value for
item 41, Kathryn Petrick, PID# 25.2000120 at $117,200.00. All voted in favor, except Mayor
Mancino who opposed and the motion carried 2 to 1.
Councilman Senn: Okay, number 42. I would move a value of $101,400.00.
Councilman Berquist: Second.
Councilman Senn moved, Councilman Berquist seconded to approve the estimated market value for
item 42, Denise Gray, PID# 25.2000340 at $101,400.00. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Councilman Senn: Okay, item number 43 I would move a value of $142,800.00.
City Council Meeting - May 13, 1998
Councilman Senn moved, Councilman Berquist seconded to approve the estimated market value for
item 43, PID# 25.2000880 at $142,800.00. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Councilman Senn: Number 44, someone will have to talk to it because I didn't pull that one.
Councilman Berquist: I pulled it. The reason I pulled it is because.., looked at it. Inspected it...
characteristics and over the quality and dropped. This whole neighborhood and there's an entire
neighborhood there that is similarly built. Similarly aged. . . would indicate that the rest ofthe properties
adjacent to it are probably as well.
Craig Paulson: It does have actually more depreciation. The inside wasn't in worse shape. The materials
were not, the wall board was not high quality, it was like a textured wall board which is just cheaper
quality. The quality materials.., not the dry wall.., and I went through that neighborhood last summer and I
didn't get inside the house so I just didn't.., kept trying to get inside and see.
Councilman Berquist: So you think that this is, the rest of the properties in the area then would not be over
valued?
Councilman Senn: ... I understand your point but how do you deal with it?
Councilman Berquist: I don't know. The reason, the only way you deal with it is to bring it up.
Councilman Senn: I understand. But interesting question because I mean this isn't the only place we have
it and this happens numerous times. How do you handle that?...
Councilman Berquist: ...
Orlin Shafer: I don't know if it was Mike that said something about that last year. He said at some point
you're going to have to trust the people that did the work. I think it gets back to that on some of these.
Every one of these that you guys have adjusted, these people that argue, if they had not made an adjustment
or.
Councilman Senn: Yeah, give and take.
Councilman Berquist: I'd move approval of $139,000.00.
Mayor Mancino: Second.
Councilman Berquist moved, Mayor Mancion seconded to approve the estimated market value for
item 44, Jonathan & Robin Overby, PID# 25.2040100 at $139,000.00. All voted in favor and the
motion carried.
Councilman Senn: Okay, number 46 1 would move a value of $242,000.00.
Councilman Berquist: How are you determining that?...
Orlin Shafer: We tried to contact Julius on all these.
City Council Meeting - May 13, 1998
Mayor Mancino: I'm okay with that.
Councilman Senn: Julius never got back to you on that?
Orlin Shafer: No, he never did and that's what he said that evening when he was here. He says I'm putting
these numbers in for Frank just because Frank asked me to. And that's the way Frank works. It's no big
deal, it's just that's the way it is.
Councilman Senn: Did I miscalculate?...
Mayor Mancino: I'd like to move that $245,700.00.
Councilman Senn: $245,700.00. Okay, I'll second that. I don't care.
Mayor Mancino moved, Councilman Senn seconded to approve the estimated market value for item
46, David Beddor, PID# 25.2150070 at $245,700.00. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Councilman Senn: 47. This one I was totally at a loss at because I couldn't even go by and look at it.
What address is this?
Mayor Mancino: You know where this is? This is on TH 41 on the west side and the white houses.
Orlin Shafer: How'd you know that?
Mayor Mancino: Because I know Tanna Moore. And I've been there many times.
Councilman Senn: Okay, it's on the west side of TH 41.
Mayor Mancino: What's it called?
Councilman Senn: ... I just had no way to place it.
Mayor Mancino: They had it up for sale for a while.
Councilman Senn: Long time. Year.
Mayor Mancino: Well about a year, yeah...this is right.
Councilman Senn: Okay, you know it pretty well then?
Mayor Mancino: Yep.
Councilman Senn: Okay, I second.
Mayor Mancino moved, Councilman Senn seconded to approve the estimated market value for item
47, Tanna Moore etal, PID# 25.2160020 at $470,300.00. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
City Council Meeting - May 13, 1998
Taping of the meeting ended at this point in the discussion. The City Council adjourned to the Courtyard
Conference Room for the remainder of the meeting.
Submitted by Don Ashworth
City Manager
Prepared by Nann Opheim