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CC Minutes 1999 02 22CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING FEBRUARY 22, 1999 Mayor Mancino called the meeting to order at 6:30 p.m. The meeting was opened with the Pledge to the Flag. COUNCILMEMBERS PRESENT: Mayor Mancino, Councilman Labatt, Councilman Engel, Councilman Senn and Councilwoman Jansen STAFF PRESENT: Todd Gerhardt, Acting City Manager; Roger Knutson, City Attorney; Kate Aanenson, City Planner; Anita Benson, City Engineer; and Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director Public Present: Name Address Barb Klick Sherry & Bob Ayotte Jan Lash Bob Wold730 Pioneer Trail Roger Gustafson Bill & Patsy Bernhjelm Allison Blackowiak Steve & Allison Syverson Denny Unze Leah Hawke 7116 Utica Lane Cascade Pass 7001 Tecumseh Lane Carver County 9380 Kiowa Trail 8116 Erie Circle 760 Preakness Lane 1080 Lyman Court 7444 Moccasin Trail APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Councilman Engel moved, Councilman Labatt seconded to approve the agenda with the following amendments: continuation of Highway 212 discussion with Roger Gustafson and Otto Schmidt under Unfinished Business, and Councilman Engel wanted to add under Council Presentation, submittal of Advisory Commission Resolution. All voted in favor and the motion carried. PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: Mayor Mancino: I'd like to read a public announcement. It's a press release from Sathe and Associates. The Mayor and the City Council are pleased to announce the two selected finalists for the city manager position. Mr. Scott Botcher, the current city manager for Delafield, Wisconsin. A suburb of Milwaukee and Mr. Steve Mielke, present city manager for Hopkins, Minnesota were selected from five finalists. Both... will participate in a day long assessment process conducted by Personnel Decisions Incorporated of Minneapolis to evaluate further their communication style, administrative skills, problem solving and inter personal skills. Following the assessment it is expected an offer will be made during March to the top candidate. During the past 9 years Mr. Mielke has served the City of Hopkins as city manager. In the past several years Hopkins has successfully implemented a strategic plan for business... Mr. Mielke served as board member... Chamber of Commerce, former board member of Minnesota Cities Managers Association. In 1997 Person of the Year, Hopkins... Mr. Mielke was born and raised in Mankato, Minnesota... reside in Plymouth. For the past five years Mr. Botcher has served the City of Delafield as city administrator. Delafield is one of the fastest growing suburban communities in the Milwaukee area. It was recently ranked third among the.., communities by Milwaukee residents. Mr. Botcher serves as Chair for the City Council Meeting - February 22, 1999 Delafield Board of Review, Executive Board member Milwaukee Chapter of American Society of Public Administration... Delafield Chamber of Commerce. Mr. Botcher was born and raised in... Minnesota. He and his spouse have two young children. They reside in Delafield, Wisconsin. Can you hear me now? CONSENT AGENDA: Councilman Engel moved, Councilwoman Jansen seconded to approve the following Consent Agenda items pursuant to the City Manager's recommendations: Arboretum Business Park Public Improvements: 1) Approve Cooperative Agreement with Chaska for Temporary Traffic Signal at Trunk Highway 41 and 82nd Street West, Project 97-1B-3. 2) Authorize Preparation of Signal Justification Report for Temporary Traffic Signage at Trunk Highway 41 and 82nd Street West, Project 97-lB-3. Amendment to City Code, Chapter 19, Article IV Concerning Individual Sanitary Sewage Treatment Systems, Approve Summary Ordinance for Publication Purposes. Amendment to City Code, Section 20-913(c) Lighting, to Regulate Height, Spacing and Type of Light Fixtures; Approve Final Reading and Summary Ordinance for Publication Purposes. d. Approval of Bills. City Council Minutes dated January 19, 1999 as amended by Councilman Labatt. City Council Minutes dated February 8, 1999. Park & Recreation Commission Minutes dated January 26, 1999 f. Resolution #99-10: Establish Liquor License Fees from May 1, 1999 to April 30, 2000. All voted in favor and the motion carried. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: None. PUBLIC HEARING: REFINANCE INDUSTRIAL REVENUE BONDS, LYMAN LUMBER COMPANY. Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, City Council members. Included in your packet is legal counsel's review of the sale of industrial refunding revenue note for Lyman Lumber. The City Council should be aware that the sale of these bonds are not an obligation against the city and that Lyman Lumber will pay the City of Chanhassen a fee associated with the application of this note. Staff recommends approval of the resolution attached. Mayor Mancino: Thank you very much. Any questions for staff at this point? This is a public hearing. Anyone wishing to address the City Council on this issue, the refinancing of industrial revenue bonds. And is the applicant here tonight and would you like to address the council in any way? Okay. Lyman Lumber Representative: I'm here to answer any questions. City Council Meeting - February 22, 1999 Mayor Mancino: Anyone wishing that's here tonight to address the Council? Okay. We'll close the public hearing. Any questions at this point from council members or any comments on this item or any questions for the applicant? ... Then may I have a motion please. Councilman Engel: Move approval. Mayor Mancino: And a second. Councilwoman Jansen: I'll second. Resolution #99-11: Councilman Engel moved, Councilwoman Jansen seconded to approve the resolution for refunding of Industrial Refunding Revenue Note for Lyman Lumber Company. All voted in favor and the motion carried. PUBLIC HEARING: COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT PROGRAM, ALLOCATION OF $51,320 GRANT FUNDS. Kate Aanenson: Thank you. As I indicated at our last City Council meeting, the City was allocated over $50,000.00 for block grant. It is staff's recommendation that we use that money to buy a lot to relocate some of the homes that we have already purchased being the Wrase or the Klein home. We have contacted Carver County HRA and they are willing to work with us through Habitat for Humanity to make that come about. I did want to apprise the council that we may be looking at some of the fees that we can help reduce, including building permits and some of the sewer and water connections to help reduce the cost so just to be aware that if we do that we'll be coming back to you but that may be some of the package we'd be looking at to help reduce the cost. But that would be our recommendation. Attached is a resolution approving the use of the projected funds and staff is recommending approval of that resolution. Mayor Mancino: Okay, thank you. Any questions for staff right now? Then let me open this for a public hearing. Anyone wishing to address the council or have any questions on the CDBG block grant. Okay. Seeing none, let me bring that back to council. Again any council person have a question? I think at our last meeting Kate we were just very, very supportive of this and I'm sure you have a lot that you're thinking of to put the homes. Then may I have a motion, unless there are any other comments. Councilwoman Jansen: I move approval. Mayor Mancino: And a second? Councilman Labatt: Second. Resolution #99-12: Councilwoman Jansen moved, Councilman Labatt seconded to approve the resolution approving the projected use of funds for 1999 Urban Hennepin County Development Block Grant Program and authorizing signatures of the Subrecipient Agreement with Hennepin County and any third party agreements. All voted in favor and the motion carried. UNFINISHED BUSINESS: CONTINUATION OF HIGHWAY 212 DISCUSSION. Mayor Mancino: The next item on the agenda is the 212 corridor and kind of the second part of what we did last Monday night. City Council Meeting - February 22, 1999 Anita Benson: Correct, but Mayor it appears our MnDOT representative may be running a little bit late tonight so if you want to move ahead with the other items on the agenda and we could come back to that. Mayor Mancino: Okay, thank you. So we'll have a little change in our agenda. APPROVAL OF 1999 BUDGET TRANSFERS. Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, City Council members. At our last work session staff was directed to look at transferring monies that were in the general fund and seeing if we can't use more capital money to transfer those monies out of general fund into capital funds. Attached is a list of approximately $146,000.00 worth of general fund expenses that staff is proposing to the capital fund. We did not hit the expectations that staff had, or that the council had hoped of $300,000.00. However, staff would offer over that we could move some, what would look, which would be salaries over to some of the tax increment districts. Which would be in existence for, depending on the districts, anywhere from 7 to 9 years. And that would hit the obligations, or the goals that the City Council had put out in hoping to see the entire $300,000.00 moved out of the general fund. I just make you aware that once those districts go back on the tax rolls that those expenditures would then have to be absorbed through the general fund at that time. With that staff would take any questions. Mayor Mancino: Okay. Right now the tax increment district is able to pay what, 10% of salaries and administrative fees? Todd Gerhardt: Correct. Mayor Mancino: Okay. Each tax increment district. Todd Gerhardt: Yes. Mayor Mancino: Has that cap. And we are using salaried obviously employees to administer the TIF district. Todd Gerhardt: Yes. We would look carefully at, an example would be the Gateway Business Center at 41 and 5. Right now we have not allocated administrative time to that. As that park gets developed, you're looking at more of planning staff time to do site plan reviews. Todd will be looking at park development in that area. The engineers are working on utilities for those. Site grading. The water reservoir. So those are all justifiable administrative expenses associated with that development. Mayor Mancino: And any increment that is derived from that district must be spent in that district or administratively. Todd Gerhardt: Correct. Mayor Mancino: So that when that district ceases to exist, when it is decertified, the property taxes that are attributed to the city goes into our general fund. Todd Gerhardt: Yes. City Council Meeting - February 22, 1999 Mayor Mancino: Okay. So what you said earlier, I want to make sure I understand. So when you said that when the districts cease to exist in 6 or 7 years, the property taxes that are collected from that that are due the city, go back into our general fund so that when the salaries are no longer paid through TIF, they would be paid back through the general fund but the general fund would be increased by an amount of that increment that goes back into the general fund anyway. Todd Gerhardt: Well I would hope it would be more than what we have for administrative expense there. But just so you understand how the percentages break out. Approximately 50% of every tax dollar that is paid by our residents and businesses goes to the school district. The county gets about another 30% of that and then the cities are in at about 18%. So of every dollar paid, we would be 18% of that. Minus fiscal disparities. Mayor Mancino: Which is another 40%. Todd Gerhardt: Right. Mayor Mancino: Okay, any other questions? On this and does the council, I'd like to hear some discussion. The transfers are one time capital expenses here which seem to make a lot of sense. And you said that you could come up with more because of the salaries and TIF. How would council like to see that? Stop here at these transfers or to continue. Any discussion? Councilwoman Jansen: I guess looking at the general fund expenses right now, we're at a, it's like a 6.3% increase over last year. I hate to put a lot more time and effort into just doing shifts of the expenses if that's what we're talking about doing. We're not changing our total expenses. It's just where we're accounting for them so I guess for me to be down to that 6% increase versus where we started at the 9 and the 12, I could be comfortable with the 6 versus going back and you know playing with the numbers further on staff's part. Mayor Mancino: Okay. Councilman Senn. Councilman Senn: Nothing. Mayor Mancino: Councilman Engel .... for the transfers. Councilman Engel: Yep. Mayor Mancino: Okay. Councilman Labatt. Councilman Labatt: I tend to agree with Linda that we've made headway... Mayor Mancino: Well I agree. I think there's too much finagling going into TIF so let's do these transfers and go forward with all. May I have a motion please? Councilwoman Jansen: I'll make a motion to approve the transfers as noted. Mayor Mancino: And a second? Councilman Engel: Second. City Council Meeting - February 22, 1999 Resolution #99-13: Councilwoman Jansen moved, Councilman Engel seconded to approve the transfer of the attached expenditures and funding source to capital projects administration. All voted in favor and the motion carried. UNFINISHED BUSINESS: CONTINUATION OF HIGHWAY 212 DISCUSSION. Mayor Mancino: Are you ready? Okay. Then let's stop and go on to 212. And then we will pick up 7(b), establish policy for promoting employees after our 212 presentation. Thank you. Anita Benson: I didn't prepare any formal presentation. Essentially what we're doing here is continuing the discussion from your last work session when we went through the.., issues and the layout of Trunk Highway 212. Otto is here...planning director with MnDOT and also Roger Gustafson, Carver County is here to provide some insight on the... Mayor Mancino: Okay thank you. Thank you for coming again tonight and being with us. Appreciate it. We may after you and Roger are done take questions or comments from the audience too. Thank you Otto. Otto Schmidt: That's fine. What I wanted to do this evening is to just briefly address the issue as far as the long range planning that's gone in to identify the 212 corridor and to place it's importance I think in a proper perspective. What I brought this evening and would show... What this map tends to depict is really a series of inter regional corridors that come into the Twin City area from various places throughout the state of Minnesota. And for that matter Wisconsin. And the 212 corridor I'm sure as you know is planned and dedicated as a regional corridor. The folks in the district just adjacent to the metro district, the Willmar district, District 8, just completed a long range planning program where they had really three choices to review as their primary inter regional corridor and that was Trunk Highway 12, Trunk Highway 7 and Trunk Highway 212 and they adopted Trunk Highway 212 as their primary inter regional corridor... So the importance of this particular facility brings a much broader perspective than that of a commuter corridor for the metropolitan area, but rather as an economic linkage as it is, as it were to the greater Minnesota area. The development in the identification of this corridor over the gosh, how many years now. We've been talking about it, it's been a long time and the types of working relationships that we've established with the county and with the cities along this corridor I think has brought us to some good planning that has identified a reasonable corridor. We very much appreciate the good working relationship that we have with your city and coming up with what we consider to be an appropriate design for the facility. One that assures appropriate access to the facility, almost to the point where might suggest that there are more interchanges perhaps along the facility than what may be necessary but I think it insures appropriate access to the 212 by the residents who will live here and who already do live here, when that facility is built. With that I would defer to Roger because I know that their county has been going through a comprehensive program, planning program. Transportation plan as an integral part of that. And I suspect he has some observations that he'd like to make about this facility and what it means really to the traffic patterns within the county and obviously within your municipality and then I'll stand for questions. If you want me to stand for questions now, I'll be glad to do so. Mayor Mancino: Thank you. Roger Gustafson: Good evening. I'm Roger Gustafson. Carver County Public Works Director and County Engineer. Thank you for giving me a few minutes tonight. I can tell you first hand that the intersection of 41 and Pioneer Trail was pretty busy at about a quarter to six because my wife's car stalled City Council Meeting - February 22, 1999 at that intersection and we've been rushing around making arrangements to get the car towed out of there and get here this evening so, busy evening and an interesting experience. And I think we're realizing that type of thing happening all over Carver County as we continue to grow. In going. Mayor Mancino: Stalled cars? Roger Gustafson: Stalled cars and congestion and yes, all that type of thing. And people like me trying to figure out what to do when we're standing out there. But going back to when we started the comprehensive plan and so forth, the county had discussions with your city staff and staff from other cities and instead of doing just a county comprehensive plan, looking at the county road system and then encouraging more local streets to be looked at as well, we embarked on an objective to draw the State into the review of transportation in Carver County and it was very pleasant to form a partnership with the State and have them come on board to participate, not only in the overview of the development, the comprehensive plan, but also sharing in it's cost because as I think we all realize, a trunk highway system in Carver County is a focal point and I think we've gained a lot of valuable information by over the last year and a half or so having the State and the County and the cities work together as far as looking at transportation. And I'm particularly appreciative of the City of Chanhassen taking what was done as a look at the State and the County system and in essence attaching to that same effort and having the same firm that did the work for the State and the County look at the more local city street system in Chanhassen, and Chaska did the same thing so I think as far as just some overview and stuff, you've probably heard some of the information. I think what was of particular interest to me as I tried to think of what maybe was the one message I would like to share tonight with the City Council rather than getting into a lot of details about the plan is basically what was happening with the environment of our local system. County roads and city streets without 212 in place and what was going to be happening as we wait for 212 to come and I've just made a few bar charts to sort of illustrate what the year 2020 looks like based on the work that's been done by SRF for us relative to traffic volumes on the trunk highway system and then I have a few bar charts as far as what it looks like on some of our county roads in eastern Carver County. In the packets which you've had for some time, there are bar graphs on the trunk highway system but I've been able to do a few more with the county roads since that was part of your packet. But anyway what this bar graph and the rest that I'll show you indicates is that without having 212 in place by the year 2020, and we're looking at the future, the traffic volumes on the trunk highway 5 corridor are going to be as illustrated in the red. And if new 212 is in place, we will be looking at volumes that are in the tannish color. And as you progress from east to west on the trunk highway 5 corridor, beginning just to the east of County Road 13 which is sort of on the west limits of Chanhassen and then proceeding easterly all the way over to the east county line. You can see that there's a pretty significant difference on the trunk highway 5 corridor itself. Looking at the east end of the city you can see that the forecast for trunk highway 5 is up around 60,000 vehicles a day and that would, with 212 in place be down around in the 46,000-47,000 range, which is somewhat in line with the bar that's just to the left, or the 1996 traffic volume. Frankly the study suggests that if212 isn't in place by the year 2020, there will be so much traffic on the trunk highway 5 corridor that six lanes will have to be constructed on that corridor to allow traffic to move at any sort of reasonable volume. And the trunk highway 7 corridor conveys the same sort of message, and what I'm trying to do by illustrating this is draw I guess attention to you and others that need to make the decisions as far as what types of impacts or environment will be left for these other corridors without support and moving forward with the 212 corridor. And this is the trunk highway 101 corridor. To the far left is coming across the river and that's a high volume link between Shakopee and Chanhassen and that's already at a level that's of concern as far as a lot of traffic volume. But even as you look at the 101 corridor moving north across the city, you can see that having 212 in place will relieve some of the traffic volume on that corridor and potentially allow a different sort of environment to be created on that corridor based on a lower traffic volume. And this is the City Council Meeting - February 22, 1999 existing trunk highway 212 corridor and of course again if there is no new alignment the existing traffic volumes on the existing corridor are substantially highway than what will be on the corridor if a new 212 is built. Looking at a little bit more of the local system, this is Pioneer Trail. Over on the right is the corridor from 101 to the east county line and then it progresses back towards the west. Going back to trunk highway 41 which is the third bar on the left. And you can see again the pretty significant difference as far as what we will be working with as far as with or without 212 in place by the year 2020. And this becomes part of the challenge as far as trying to preserve the existing corridor or make improvements on it and so forth as far as trying to put the timing together to address the needs. And the message is basically pretty consistent but this is the County Road 18/Lyman Boulevard corridor. Again on the right it's over by trunk highway 101 and you move across the bar chart to the left. You end up as far as the vertical bars, the third in from the left is at the trunk highway 41 corridor. So again there's a significant difference with and without 212 in place as far as basically the flooding of the local system because of the congestion on the trunk highway system and as some of you know, have heard some of the details about what's in the comprehensive plan if 212 was in place today it'd be about 28 miles, 29 miles of roadway in that part of the county that would not be recognized as being congested based on the metro area's objective of having level service D or better travel conditions on the systems of the metro area. So I just again want to just highlight what I think is what we're really dealing with as far as our local system and what we're having to address if 212 comes to be or if it doesn't as far as potentially having to make extra investments both in capital outlay and in maintenance on the local county and city street systems until such time as a new 212 is in place and we have the relief on our local systems that 212 will bring. Mayor Mancino: Any questions? For Roger. A1 Klingelhutz asked a question from the audience. Roger Gustafson: Yes. Right, like you said you've had a few of these but the last ones I've just done as far as the county roads. We had to wait on that because obviously we make traffic counts at a lot of locations and the consultant just really hadn't matched his projections and locations where we had counts so we did ask for a few more projections from him and they were gotten to us and we were able to do some more charts. Mayor Mancino: That would be great because they're hard to read without being in color. Thank you. Anyone here tonight have any questions for Roger or Otto? Please come forward. State your name and address. Bob Wold: My name's Bob Wold. I live at 730 Pioneer Trail. I think that in one of the other presentations we had, Anita I think you said that the major traffic in the future probably would be north and south within the city. At some time down the road that that traffic would be more, and I was looking at the proposed impact of the, I think we're going to need 212. I was just addressing the plan of it with the on and off ramps that were presented and the design. I would see that each one of those would have to have at least two traffic lights at the ramp itself. One for the north and one for the south corridor. Which would mean probably highway 101 would have 11 traffic lights within the city of Chanhassen before it exiting the north side. And the new 17, there would probably be one at Pioneer Trail, then two more on the freeway and then another at Lyman. Another at Highway 5 and I'm not sure what the D level traffic flow is but how would that many traffic lights impact that traffic pattern? And would there be a different design where we'd have more of a flow over 212 because under the design there is no flow over 212 without stopping. Within Chanhassen. You'd have to go over to Chaska and go up the old 17 in order to do that. Thank you. City Council Meeting - February 22, 1999 Mayor Mancino: Okay, good. Good question. Obviously we're all concerned, even about Highway 5. Being on the Highway 5 task force we said we didn't want it to be France Avenue so, are we just going to be stopping at stop lights every block or two? Roger Schmidt: Well there's level of service down on main line traffic flows and then there's also level of service done at intersections and it is quite possible that what has been presented will become a reality as far as the looking 20-25 years into the future and the type of traffic volumes we're looking at to actually permit traffic to have it's turn as far as going through intersections. Making turns. Making choices and so forth. You have to continue to monitor the traffic volumes entering those intersections and as you move from a very rural intersection that has no control into intersections that would be more controlled, you may add some stop signs and so forth but at some point stop signs serve at a low level and then you do make the step forward to put in the traffic signal. And I think you've see that... Mayor Mancino: Can't one redesign the ramps so that they don't need as many traffic lights? And I'm thinking mostly on 101, Powers, where the intersections, the on ramps will be. Roger Schmidt: Well I think the assessment's pretty accurate when where the ramps, on and off ramps come up and intersect 101, there is a potential for both north and south of the new 212 corridor to have a signal at each of those locations so I think potentially those two signals are possible. From that area south, time will tell as far as growth in the area and traffic volumes as far as what may be necessary. We don't have anything now all the way down to the area of the Y, existing 212, but we have over time looked pretty closely at the Pioneer Trail and 101 intersection. As some of you may remember, it used to be just a two way stop situation. We worked with the State on that and analyzed traffic movements and safety and accident history and that was upgraded to a four way stop situation. There may come a time when volumes on that corridor would necessitate signals. Our looking at the future as far as traffic volumes would suggest that that will come sooner without having 212 in place than later. That relates to exactly what I was talking about and exactly what I have concerns about as far as the local system of county roads, city streets. Thinking of Highway 101 as being a county facility. The traffic volumes on those corridors and those intersections and higher without having 212 here than they are with 212 so if we had 212 you could presume that the potential for having more signals on the county road system would be decreased. Because the volumes on those roads would be decreased with 212 in place. I don't think anybody is anxious to go out there and put signals in if they aren't warranted because they are a very expensive item. You move from signs for a few hundred dollars type of thing to signals that are going to run $150,000.00 to install at each intersection. Mayor Mancino: Okay, thank you. Any other questions? Bob Wold: I was just thinking that on...we might have actually...the new 17, we put in a cloverleaf somewhere was our freeway, or that is require a stop sign and then maybe just make an overpass at 101. Then you would eliminate...but I'm not saying don't build 212. I'm just saying I don't want to have to shop in Chaska the rest of my life because I live south of 212 and right now, I mean Highway 5 is kind of a ... stop signs... Otto Schmidt: The approach I think we always had taken is we will work with the city in any way that you direct us to consider any and all options as far as this facility is concerned. Mayor Mancino: We'll take you up on that, thank you. No, I'm just kidding. City Council Meeting - February 22, 1999 Otto Schmidt: ... have been using is to assure, insure appropriate access to that facility based on what we see as an extremely fast growing part of the Twin Cities area. And I also wanted to mention this evening too that it's important for us to understand that we have two really major disconnects as far as inter regional corridors are concerned in the metropolitan area. The southwest corridor being one, 212, and the other being Trunk Highway 61 over in the southeast part of the metropolitan area. My boss Dick Steer, who is the director of the division and Commissioner Tinkleberg have instructed the staff at the water's edge, at the metro division, to accelerate where possible the work anticipated on these corridors. And they're developing an approach that should be coming to the public I would suspect within the next month or two that will identify these hot spots and these accelerated projects that the Ventura administration would like to address and address early on. They're very sensitive to the fact that we have been somewhat lax in meeting our obligations, like I said this goes... I'm sure I was an awfully young man without any gray hair and probably only a few years out of college when we started talking about the southwest corridor. And we're still talking about it and they're aware of it and they're aware of the importance of this facility to the economic well being of a vast segment of Minnesota. And so I would just indicate to you this evening don't be surprised if you see discussions start very quickly on how we can accelerate. We know the longer we wait, the longer we take, the more expensive this facility is going to cost us. The loss of the right-of-way acquisition is accelerating. It's completed an unmet needs report here last November and .... what we called an unmet needs.., that Roger was talking about. One of the things we were asked to do was to go back and recompute our right-of-way costs by increasing them by 100% and that was based on the recent history and right-of-way acquisitions particularly for the, we're painfully aware that the longer we wait the more costly it will be. So I just wanted to bring that message to you this evening. Mayor Mancino: Thank you. Anyone else who has any questions? Al, do you have any questions? A1 Klingelhutz asked questions and Otto Schmidt answered from the audience that was not picked up on tape. Mayor Mancino: I was going to say there's a lot of us that can relate. A1 Klingelhutz: I think with the acceleration that's going to happen on these bigger highways and I was at the meeting in Chaska... really try to get some money and I know a lot of the senators and representatives are anxious to have.., if you want something to go all the way from the Dakota border to here, of all the communities that live on the highway, he says we'll get a... from every council along that road... I guess my concern is that we have...when the time comes that they really want to accelerate and I think there's one road block...that's not where we're coming from... Mayor Mancino: In fact we're meeting with MnDOT on Wednesday morning at 9:00 to talk about that and the right-of-way acquisition and the different options to get that going. A1 Klingelhutz: ... Mayor Mancino: Anyone else have any questions on 2127 Any comments? Thank you. Any questions? Comments from council? Thank you for coming. Really appreciate it. ESTABLISH POLICY FOR PROMOTING EMPLOYEES. Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, council members. During our budget process this year there were two positions that were omitted as a part of our written presentation to the city council that were considered for 10 City Council Meeting - February 22, 1999 promotions. We have both Bill Bement is up for a promotion from an Engineer Tech II to an Engineer Tech IV. Staff had also included a promotion for Doug Hoese from a Building Inspector I to a Building Inspector II. Monetarily both of these positions were included in the 1999 budget but were omitted as a part of the narrative and written presentation. Staff has proposed the following policy to ensure that this does not happen in the future. Written documentation must be submitted to the city manager outlining why the promotion is warranted, including responsibilities, skills, knowledge and understanding of the new duties. The city manager will then review the promotion and justification based on similar positions in the Twin Cities metropolitan Area Salary Survey, otherwise called as the Stanton Group. If the city manager endorses the promotion, the department head must then submit all documents supporting the promotion during their annual budget presentation. With this staff would take any questions that the council has at this time. Mayor Mancino: Are there any questions from council members? Any questions? Councilman Labatt: ... Todd Gerhardt: That's correct. Councilwoman Jansen: I guess the only one that I have is more of a long range question. I know that when we were discussing the one promotion that had been brought up during the budgeting process, we had specifically requested a notation be made that we weren't permanently changing the organizational structure. Do I gather that these have the same affect as far as changing what our organizational structure looks like since I assume we're creating a new position through both promotions. Todd Gerhardt: We are not changing the organizational structure as a part of these two promotions. These are upgrades in positions. If for any reason one of these individuals would leave, we could also put the condition that we would then look at hiring a Building Inspector I to replace that Building Inspector II has been our policy in the past. Similarly with the Engineer Tech II, that position being upgraded to a Tech IV. We would look at hiring a Engineer Tech II to replace that Tech IV if that individual should leave. Councilwoman Jansen: Okay. I'm good with that. Mayor Mancino: I do have a question. On the Building Inspector I and Building Inspector II. There is no difference in responsibility. They're all the same. I mean it's the same wording. The same.., so someone moving from Building Inspector I to Building Inspector II from what I can read, it's not quantified that they would actually be taking on any more tasks. It's actually the specific responsibility is exactly the same. So my question is, why do we have a Building Inspector I and why do we have a Building Inspector II if they both do the same thing? And we have right now in staff organizationally, we have two Building Inspectors II and two Building Inspectors I and from the job description all four of them do the same. Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, if you look down under the requirements, the very last sentence under Building Inspector II. Building Inspector II, we require a minimum of two years experience as a building inspector. And then under the Building Inspector I, we do not require any experience as a building inspector. Mayor Mancino: So let's see. I thought on both of them, it's minimum five years working experience. Todd Gerhardt: Working experience in the trades, not as an inspector. 11 City Council Meeting - February 22, 1999 Mayor Mancino: saying we, Todd then they become Okay. Or three years experience in a building inspection technology degree. So we're bring them in without any building inspector experience. Have them for two years and Building Inspector II. After two years. So on that third year it's just. Todd Gerhardt: It's not automatic. It's, for some reason we felt that we want to get a higher qualified candidate. Say we just hired a Building Inspector I and a Building Inspector II should leave. We may come back and want to hire a Building Inspector II just to have an individual to assist that Building Inspector I to be trained in properly. Our policy under the position classification plan calls for, before an individual can be promoted they have to be, I think it's 90% of their midpoint or more before promotion can be considered. 85-90%. Mayor Mancino: Is this going to lead us down a road of getting top heavy if people don't leave? Todd Gerhardt: No. The statement I made earlier, if Building Inspector II should leave we would replace them with a Building Inspector I position. Not to get it confused with my comment if we just hire a Building Inspector I and a Building Inspector II leaving, that we may want to hire that Building Inspector II to assist in the training of that Building Inspector I. Approximately a year or two, it was probably two years ago when we hired Doug we just established the Building Inspector I level to look at getting a qualified candidate in the trade business but to bring those individuals in at a lower rate of pay and train them in-house with the experienced staff that we had and then move up when positions would become available. So it was kind of an economic decision with the qualified staff that we had. Mayor Mancino: Okay, thank you. Then I have a couple questions about Engineer Technician from II to IV, and I know Anita has left. Under specific responsibilities, construction. It says prepare and, review and prepare grading permits. Who does that now? Todd Gerhardt: Dave Hempel. Mayor Mancino: So the Assistant City Engineer does that now. Todd Gerhardt: Correct. Mayor Mancino: The other thing Todd is that under special projects, (f) and (g) which are added on to this new position or for enhancing the position of 2 to 4. (f) and (g) are also specifically related to Assistant City Engineer. Todd Gerhardt: Right. If you remember. Mayor Mancino: At this point right now. So are we taking something off the Assistant City Engineer's plate as far as special projects and giving this to Engineer Technician IV? Todd Gerhardt: Well Anita, you correct me if I'm wrong. When we promoted or moved Charles from the City Engineer/Public Works Director position out to the Public Works Director and moved Anita from Project Engineer to City Engineer, a lot of Anita's responsibilities had fallen back onto the Assistant Engineer and Dave has been overwhelmed in that position so in the springtime we are looking at trying to give Bill more responsibility and to grow into his position so Dave has been assisting Bill in learning some of these new elements that have been highlighted in the job description. 12 City Council Meeting - February 22, 1999 Mayor Mancino: Anita, I was just asking about some of the things that the Engineering Technician IV is going to be taking on there. Some of the responsibilities that are under the Assistant City Engineer's responsibilities at this point. Anita Benson: Correct. Mayor Mancino: So I picked up the review and prepare grading permits and the develop the plans and specifications and administer contracts for infiltration and inflow projects and then the software with the micro paver management program. And I had seen that those were under Assistant City Engineer so that was my question. Anita Benson: And Todd's assessment is pretty close. With a lot of the duties, a lot of the capital project programming that I was handling as project engineer. Todd Gerhardt: And a little bit that's going on around here. Anita Benson: Dave is assisting me with those and also it's a good cross training effort to take advantage of Bill's experience in actually getting in to doing some of the development contracts. He has all the experience we need there. Mayor Mancino: Okay, thank you. Councilman Senn: Todd, under your procedure what happens if it's a new.., interest or whatever, then it just waits till the next budget cycle then? Todd Gerhardt: If it's a mid-year promotion, we would have to come back for a budget amendment and I would look at that budget amendment to follow the same procedures. So they'd have to do it through the justification and comparison in the stand. Once it passes that test then it would be brought back to the city council for a budget amendment and approval. Mayor Mancino: Any other questions or comments? May I have a motion please? Councilman Labatt: I make a motion that we recognize the two promotions and adopt the... Mayor Mancino: I'll second that. Councilman Labatt moved, Mayor Mancino seconded to approve the policy, Procedures for Requesting Promotions, and to approve the two requested promotions. All voted in favor and the motion carried. ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS: A. APPROVE CONTRACT CHANGE ORDER NO. 1, BANDIMERE AND CITY CENTER PARKS, INGRAM EXCAVATING, PARK & RECREATION DIRECTOR. Todd Hoffman: Thank you Mayor Mancino, members of the Council. That old good news, bad news scenario works on these items and that number system. 7(a) has to do with the Change Order No. 1 to the contract for Bandimere and City Center Parks. With the contractor Ingram Excavating. We used 13 City Council Meeting - February 22, 1999 substantially less sod than anticipated for a total savings of $7,407.50 and we recommend that the council go ahead and approve that change order. Mayor Mancino: May I have a motion please. Councilman Engel: Move approval. Mayor Mancino: Second? Councilman Labatt: Second. Resolution #99-14: Councilman Engel moved, Councilman Labatt seconded to approve Change Order No. 1 for Bandimere and City Center Parks from Ingram Excavating. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Mayor Mancino: Can I ask one question and that is, was the siren that was placed next to the home, can that be moved so it's more, so it's not next to someone's house? As close to somebody's house. Or was it put there for one, close to electricity. Is there another place in the park so it's not you know 10 feet away from someone's home? Is that a problem with the design of the park or? Todd Hoffman: Well the reason it was, and again it wasn't, I was involved the site selection but just on the fringe. It's adjacent to a telephone pole line so there's power coming in in that location. And then for aesthetics for the park as well .... on the fringe. But there's other locations... Mayor Mancino: anything. Okay. I mean I have no idea how much that costs to move it or where the electricity is or Todd Gerhardt: Anything can be moved for the right dollar amount. Mayor Mancino: If you could just tell us that would be great because it is, it's just right next to that home. Todd Gerhardt: Do you want us to get a quote to move it? I mean the contractor still has 3 more poles to put in and I can ask him for a change order to that. Mayor Mancino: Just ask. Get approximate price. I think the resident is pretty concerned. Todd Gerhardt: Okay, we can do that. Mayor Mancino: And again, just a ballpark price would help. Todd Gerhardt: We will be bringing back a small change order associated with one of the sirens too. It's a little longer running. It's located at the public works site. I tried to get it on city owned property and as close as we can get the electricity to it. It is quite a run so there will be a change on that too. Mayor Mancino: Okay, thank you. Go ahead Todd with the park open space and trail referendum project report. 14 City Council Meeting - February 22, 1999 B. PARK~ OPEN SPACE AND TRAIL REFERENDUM PROJECT REPORT~ BUDGET AMENDMENT TO COVER DEFICIT IN FUND 442~ COMMUNITY PARKS~ PARK & RECREATION DIRECTOR. Todd Hoffman: Thank you Mayor Mancino, members of the Council. Item 8(b). First of all I'd like to briefly go over all of the projects and how, what was done in the past construction season. Give a brief update from my perspective on what we have left for the coming year and then talk about the one project which has run into some problems with this budget and that being the community parks project. So look to the improved neighborhood parks project. We had 19 neighborhood parks, individual neighborhood park projects identified. Many of these, or I should say the majority of these involved some sort of neighborhood. Many of them volunteered labor to install playgrounds or at least were involved in the design and selection of particular improvements of the site. With the exception of the items noted, that being Roundhouse Park curbing, Meadow Green Park shelter sign, North Lotus Lake Park shelter sign, the Rice Marsh Lake playground refurbishment. There's just a little bit of work remaining there. The Sugarbush Park trail, basketball court, and curbing. Consulting services totaling approximately $5,000.00 with Hoisington Koegler Group and the pea gravel, playground surfacing at two sites. With the exception of those items, all of the other work has been completed and in fact you can tell by the balance in the budget which is $4,071.68 after all those items are accounted for, we are essentially complete with the... There is some clean-up, dress-up work as we anticipated with 19 different projects but the majority of the improvements are in the ground. Mayor Mancino: Wonderful. Great. Todd Hoffman: We'll pass over the improved community parks. Open space preservation is an area that the council, the park commission and the city staff need to continue working on. We have the majority of the budget remaining. The allocation of $1,755,000.00 has been spent down to $1,334,309.76 with the acquisition and matching of City Center Park with the acquisition of the Hansen property. But we do have that million three remaining as a big commitment on the park to ensure that we purchase that large tract, one or two parcels of large land within the Chanhassen area so. And I know we have that scheduled in an upcoming work session. Construction of trails I think has been a real highlight for the community. We've gotten, we've received positive comments on all of these sections. The State Highway 7 trail, approximately a mile has been completed. You will note some snowmobile damage on it unfortunately from this past winter. I know Governor Ventura wants to keep those studs and you can certainly see the results from snowmobiles on that little...pavement so. The snowmobiles have the right to be in the Highway 7 ditch. However we are working with the Snowmobile Club to have them improve their signage and so they have agreed that they will most likely move their signed route to the north side of Highway 7... some of that damage onto our trail. The Galpin Boulevard trail is complete with the exception of the second lift of asphalt and has been received well. Powers Boulevard trail. The gravel is down. The wall work has been completed. A majority of the storm water has taken place. It needs both it's first and second lift of asphalt. And then if you noted in news alley back a couple of weeks ago, we had a watermain break at the wall near Pleasant View and that resulted in the undermining of a section of that wall directly in the center of the wall and that will need to be corrected by dismantling that wall from the top down if you will on a large.., so we can recompact those soils at the base of that wall around that broken watermain repair and then build the wall back up. The costs which are not accounted for in this budget. The Great Plains Boulevard, south Highway 101 trail is completed. It's often referred to as the 101 connector between the Chanhassen Hills neighborhood and the Rice Marsh Lake trail. The people in Mission Hills are benefactors of this as well. Bluff Creek trail is the only section which we saw no work completed with the exception of easement work in 1998, and as you're aware Phillip Elkin, the City's Water Resource 15 City Council Meeting - February 22, 1999 Coordinator is working with the BWSR grant, the DNR project down there, and along with the monies which were allocated under referendum and the monies which have been allocated as a part of that other project and we'll bring that project forward this spring. As far as I know, Phil is just working out some details with the DNR and then he will be reporting to the council on that part of the project. Mayor Mancino: So everything's kind of in place for that terminus on the south end? Todd Hoffman: Yes. The land acquisition in place. I think where Phil's running into some issues is with the DNR. It's been a couple of years since that project was initiated with the watershed district and there's been some changes in opinion and leadership from their viewpoint so there's management. And lastly, the Pioneer trail, Great Plains Boulevard. It's complete. With the exception of that connection between, right down there at the Eden Prairie side. It's the lift station at the bridge on Pioneer Trail as you enter Eden Prairie. That land actually is in Eden Prairie and they're constructing a lift station at some depths of about 40 to 50 feet right there so they've got a lot of excavation. Bringing a sewer line underneath the trail. That gravel trail, the LRT trail and now they have to bring another line across this summer so we'll be waiting at least 3 or 4 or 5 months and potentially an entire construction season before we can make that final connection. But the remainder of the trail is in place. We have some outstanding encumbrances on that that are noted and those being the Midwest Asphalt contract for just over $300,000.00. The remainder of the Howard R. Green contract. Our consultants. Easement payments are down to two or three and the legal remaining, estimated. And again this project balances out very closely at $4,238.00 remaining. Mayor Mancino: ... close. Todd Hoffman: We are very close. And on the trails the big wild card obviously was the easement acquisition and we've been very fortunate to acquire a majority of those easements without great difficulty, a great deal of negotiation but no stumbling blocks as of yet. Go back to the neighborhood parks. Excuse me, the community park projects. Both projects, Bandimere and City Center are set to be complete within the first 60 days of construction of 1999. Not going to hide from the fact that we had difficulty with the contractor in completing their projects in 1998. We worked very hard with Ingram Excavating. We did hand over City Center Park with about 30 to 45 days in delay due to the site preparation that we had to initiate on this, on City Center so we showed some leniency there but other than that we need to see Ingram perform in 1999 to get the projects complete. The budget numbers specifically were about $67,000.00 over budget and that in great extent is due to the decision to drain tile Bandimere Park. We had hoped, these were tight budgets. To complete both Bandimere and City Center Park on this $1.5 million budget, our consultant originally thought we should just be doing one and not both of them. I indicated that we were going to go ahead and attempt to complete both projects with that allocation and they were designed intentionally to attempt to do that with the necessary deducts that we had identified at the beginning of the project. The decision which really tipped the card on this was the drain tile and so we have three full size soccer fields at Bandimere which we had hoped the soil conditions would be forgiving enough to allow us not to have to drain tile those fields. We needed to save some money early on in the project so that was deleted. We are in the middle of construction. The fields were graded. The irrigation contractors were ready to pull in their irrigation lines and we were faced with the fact that these soils were not going to drain.., so we made the decision to go ahead and install drain tile. There's 17,000 feet of drain tile in these three fields. That's a lot of drain tile. If you think of any corn field that is drain tiled and it's about the same fashion. What we see happening with the use of these community parks is that they're so intensely utilized in the spring, summer and fall by soccer, football, that if you get a heavy rain condition, they just become unplayable. And then we have a very difficult time as a public agency keeping people off. So they're not draining. They're wet and people are playing on them and they damage the fields. Whereas we 16 City Council Meeting - February 22, 1999 can put drain tile into there, get that water away, they become playable much more quickly. Then at drought periods, without the drain tile, you can't irrigate. You cannot, we're forced not to irrigate the field as much and you run into the opposite extreme. You can't grow the grass. And we had this problem at Lake Ann where we suffered for three years without drain tile and were forced to close, the city was forced to close that for a year and then drain tile so. At that time we had hoped we could make those costs up in other cuts in the project. What we were forced with, as you can imagine in a project this size, there were areas where we just could not make those costs up at Bandimere. It was a very tight time line. Tight budget to start with. In fact we suppressed the contractor on many areas where they were seeking additional compensation. We simply made it clear that this budget was in trouble and we were not going to compensate them in any other areas. So we have a $67,000.00 problem. How would you like to balance it? I've offered the council three options and they take a look from Option # 1 being the most severe. Just taking it, if you will, cutting surgically right out of the project itself. Making the project responsibility for those costs, but that does some bad things to City Center Park and that would include concrete bleacher pads I could live with, but it's not ideal. Asphalt for the trails would not be a good thing to deduct, the asphalt for trails. Asphalt color court surfacing, $9,500.00. Mayor Mancino: What is that? What is asphalt color court surface? Todd Hoffman: It's the six basketball courts and then you put the green paint down and the lines. So I can live without that. Then planting, $16,000.00. I don't think we want to, after we had to remove as many trees as we did, we cannot take the plantings out of there. Option #2 talks about some other areas where we can gain that money back and those being number one, delete the irrigation system controller, which was budgeted as a part of the city's 410 park acquisition development budget for '99, $35,000.00. Delete John Deere tractor from Fund 410 in 1999, $9,500.00. I sat down with Dale Gregory, our Park Superintendent. These were his wishes and he has our blessing to go ahead and delete those. He believes very strongly in what we did at Bandimere Park with the drain tiling and he's convinced that it's wise to invest that money there instead of in these items at this time. And then #3 would be to access $22,530.53 in reserves. I didn't like that reserve amount that high so Option #3 we attempted to bring it down by adding deletions of that asphalt color court surfacing of $9,500.00. That brings our reserve need down to $13,030.53. And Option #3, which is a combination of#1 and #2 balances that budget with the additional $67,000.00 in investments, expenditures and that's my recommendation that the council approve Option #3 and balance that budget so we can move into the year with a clean slate. Mayor Mancino: Good. Comments from council. Councilman Labatt. Councilman Labatt: I just remember going through the budget process and listening to justifications on items, and why they were needed. The John Deere tractor for the new Bandimere Park... other tractors were 20 years old. Todd Hoffman: Yeah, these are to drag the ballfields. Yep. Councilman Labatt: ... such a nice job to you know... I don't know .... justification when going through the budget process but now we want to cut them out. I realize they were.., budget process and really felt strong about. Mayor Mancino: So would your suggestion to be still take them out of 410, out of the reserve account? Councilman Labatt: I don't know if I'm suggesting... 17 City Council Meeting - February 22, 1999 Mayor Mancino: Oh okay. Okay. Well let's have some discussion then. Councilman Engel. Councilman Engel: How much is left in the 410 reserve? Todd Hoffman: Approximately $400,000.00. And that accounts for all of the items which were moved over there this year and then the allocations of $200,000.00 to trails, or to parks and $300,000.00 to trails. Fund 410 has done some good things for this city in the past couple of years but it's not bottomless. Councilman Engel: It's like a big, fat piggy bank huh. Mayor Mancino: Well I mean it has and part of it's purpose is to continue our comprehensive trail system. And of course that mostly with the referendum. Councilman Engel: What about the irrigation system? What's the alternative now? Todd Hoffman: The alternative now is to it's more, it's manual operations versus computerized operations. Again Dale Gregory has been advocating for this but he is also the person responsible for seeing that Bandimere's irrigation system does run properly and he sees it as a hierarchy. He would rather see us get that drain tile, get that system in there and operate it manually for a few years. We have a lot of irrigation systems. At some point we will be computerized. Whether they're all integrated, that time just has to come for our city. Councilman Engel: Okay. What I'm saying is we're not going to jeopardize the quality of those fields by deleting this? Todd Hoffman: No. Councilman Engel: Okay. Alright, that's what I want to know for now. Mayor Mancino: Councilman Senn. Councilman Senn: Todd can you elaborate a little bit more on the $23,000.00 in overages. More specifically what the site clean-up prior to construction entailed and the environmental engineering testing. Can you also speak to, I just, I have a real hard time understanding, we didn't budget for electrical hook- ups or bonding costs in this project. Those are pretty much known costs up front. Todd Hoffman: Yep. I'll take each one of them one by one. Site clean-up prior to the site, if you recall we had the, oh what did we call it? The drop off site located here where we had the large trees piling. That had accumulated to a great extent over time. I don't recall the exact bills but it was in the $7,000.00 to $8,000.00 range. Items prior to so. We also had an unknown, well a known but as far as the extent, a farm dump in the ravine... Environmental engineering testing. There was not sufficient dollars allocated for the testing that went, that was necessary as a part of this park and that was due to a failure on my part to anticipate that as well as Brauer and Associates. This was an extremely tight budget. When you added up the contract and the consulting fees and it just pushes over the limit when we started taking a look at the soils testing, the testing of the concrete, the asphalt surfaces, compaction testing, and when you fill in ballfields and the parking lots and curbing, there was a great deal of testing that I did not take into consideration as a part of that. Minnesota Valley Electric hook-up was a negotiation on the part of the city 18 City Council Meeting - February 22, 1999 with Minnesota Valley. If you take a look at the small print on the plan, that the contractor shall take into consideration all the costs associated with that. Minnesota Valley came back with some, I think original estimates in the $10,000.00 to $12,000.00 range. Their hook-ups and those were brought to my attention whereas I beginning, I asked the same questions as... so came the argument, well it's on the plan set and it should be responsible for it. We ended up negotiating those costs down to in the $4,000.00 range... So it was one of those things where the contractor really did not anticipate this. The bonding costs where our known quantities and again my error in not taking into consideration $9,000.00 I think that Pam had... When these projects were initiated, Pam and I did not have the opportunity to sit down and have the conversation of how are the bonding costs spread across all the different projects. You know when I see $9,000.00 just Springsted, I'm going what is that money, you know where did that money come from and how did it get taken out of the budget? The other budgets were, which were not as lean and mean as this one could absorb that. Mayor Mancino: Thank you. Councilman Senn: As far as general comments go, it kind of seems like the concrete bleacher pads could be expendable as well as the asphalt color court surfacing. Beyond that I'd like to see the balance of the funds come out of the referendum dollars. So we leave referendum stuff within the referendum to balance that budget. If we need to go later to 410 at the end of the year or at a later time, we can do that but there are adequate dollars in the referendum now to do it so. Mayor Mancino: No there aren't. There aren't adequate dollars in the referendum under community parks. Councilman Senn: I didn't say under community parks. I said from the referendum. Mayor Mancino: So you're saying take it out of the. Councilman Senn: Other items. Mayor Mancino: The other items which the only one would be open space. Councilman Senn: That's not totally true. It looks like there was a positive balance in a couple of the other ones. Not a great deal but. Mayor Mancino: $8,000.00 in the other two funds. Well let's have some clarity here. We have $4,000.00 left over for trails. We have $4,000.00 for neighborhood parks. And we have $1.3 for open space. So that's where you're suggesting it would come out of? Correct Councilman Senn? Councilman Senn: If you basically take those items, that's about $37,000.00 which means about $30,000.00 coming out of the other, yes. Mayor Mancino: I wanted to make sure on that. Councilwoman Jansen. Councilwoman Jansen: As far as taking the funds out of the open space budget, I guess I'd be opposed to doing that. As far as realizing again how little the money that is there is going to cover. I imagine that will be another situation where if anything we'll be looking for additional open space or additional dollars at some point and I do think we made a commitment in what we projected to the community as to what we 19 City Council Meeting - February 22, 1999 were going to be spending the dollars for. I guess as I'm looking at the parks, and looking at fund 410, and I realize I haven't had the total description on fund 410 and it's purpose. As we came through the whole budgeting process and I realize we have put items into that fund that are more so maintenance or, well the irrigation system typically wouldn't land in 410. Mayor Mancino: Well, it could maybe fall... Councilwoman Jansen: Okay. I guess I'm looking at it as a difference of do we do it now? Do we do it later? But we do it within the parks and rec budget. If we're spending the funds from 410 now and it's going into securing these parks to have them useable as soon as possible, does that not justify maybe pulling the additional dollars from the reserve to do that? If putting the irrigation system in this year provides us better monitoring of watering all of these brand new fields that we've put in, is it not worth the investment now? So thought I can appreciate holding onto the reserve dollars, I guess I'd want to maybe have more conversation along those lines. And I'm assuming the commission was involved in pulling together the three options for us. Are they aware of the three options and the way it's proposed here? Okay. Also throw it back into their court to maybe take a look at. Mayor Mancino: ... and I've kind of brought this up before. The John Deere tractor, I see that not coming from 410. I don't see that coming from park and rec at all. I see that coming from equipment funding. Because that is part of the equipment that we have to buy for the overall upkeep of our community, just like a snowplow. Just like anything else. I do know that, I think there is some extra in there for this year. I don't know how much but I bet it's pretty close to $9,500.00. So one, if we could look at that and take that out of the fund, not take it out of 410. Okay, thank you. So I would like to see, and any other again equipment for park and rec and for the maintenance of our parks again doesn't come out of park and rec or 410 but comes out of our equipment fund. I don't know how other commissioners, or council members feel about that. Councilman Engel: The tractor or the tractor and irrigation system? Mayor Mancino: Just the tractor. Again that's equipment. It's hard to drive one of those irrigation systems. There are those of us who may try but... That would be a good policy statement. What is under equipment funding? So I don't know how the rest of the council, if they agree with me on that. Councilman Engel: It needs gas. Mayor Mancino: Exactly. And I just put the irrigation system is back to Todd for doing that this year or, and Dale for doing it this year or next year. Whatever you decide. I mean I can understand Councilwoman Jansen's, you know let's get it going now and get it up and running so. So I'm kind of with Option #3 only taking the tractor out of it. So where does that make us all? And I would not be for taking any money out of the open space money that is left just because of the high cost of land and what we were using that amount for and we were very specific in the information that we gave to residents who voted on the referendum where the money would be going. Councilman Engel: Let's see if I understand this. Mayor Mancino: So pull this all together please. 2O City Council Meeting - February 22, 1999 Councilman Engel: Does that, you say you mean to leave. Take Option #3 but when you say take the John Deere tractor out of it, you're saying buy it with different funds? Mayor Mancino: Yes. Buy it with the equipment funding fund. Councilman Senn: So it doesn't change Option #3. Mayor Mancino: So that would change Option #3. Councilman Labatt: Now wait a minute... Councilman Engel: I think it would change Option #3. Councilman Labatt: You deduct $9,5000.00 right? Mayor Mancino: Yep. Councilman Senn: You're still going to delete it though from 410. Todd Hoffman: The $9,5000.00 assigned to the tractor would stay in fund 410 but then would be used to cover the, so the reserves would go up to $22,000.00. Councilman Engel: Access the reserves by $22,000.00. Todd Hoffman: $22,000.00, correct. Councilman Engel: $22,530.53. Councilman Senn: I thought you said take it out of equipment budget. So if you do that you still delete the John Deere tractor from fund 410. It's the same and you buy it instead out of the equipment budget. I thought that's what I heard. Todd Hoffman: That's correct. Councilman Senn: Well then why are you shaking your head no as I was saying that? Mayor Mancino: Because you're saying take it out of 410 and I didn't say that. Councilman Senn: No, I said you delete it out of 410. Okay, 410. Mayor Mancino: You delete taking it out of 410, yep. Councilman Senn: Okay. This budgeted which leaves basically Option #3 the same. Okay all you're doing is transferring the expense of the tractor. Mayor Mancino: Out of equipment. Councilman Senn: ... budget amendment effectively to the new equipment. 21 City Council Meeting - February 22, 1999 Mayor Mancino: That's it. Councilman Senn: What you're suggesting. Mayor Mancino: Yes. Janet, do you have a, would you like to say anything on this? Have you seen it? Is it in front of you? Jan Lash: No. I'm Jan Lash. I'm Chair of Park and Rec for the record. No, the commission has not seen this but ifI followed the options, and I'm not sure that I got it 100%. Not seeing hard copy. I don't think that the commission would have problems with of course the tractor coming out of somebody else's money. And they would have a huge problem with any of it coming out of open space acquisition because that was really rated very highly by the residents in our survey. So we would not, I'm fairly confident we would be unanimous that we would not support that as an option. I don't think there would be a problem if there are excess funds, as Councilman Senn said in other accounts in accessing them if we're running over in some area. And if you can't figure it out tonight, we meet tomorrow night and we certainly could send back a recommendation but I think you should be able to figure this out. It's not that hard. What was the other thing? The irrigation thing. I guess in cases like that I like to defer to staff. And ifDale's the one who is maintaining it and they think they can get by for a year and the drain tile was a big issue, and I understand that from past history. I would defer to their expertise that they're the ones going to have to do it so let them deal with it for a year or two and I would rather do that than tap anything more from our reserves. I think that we have strategically tried to maintain some level of reserves so when certain opportunities come to our attention that we need to have some cash available, we can do that. In cases of working with the school district or working with CAA or you know matching fund types of things, it's nice to have some reserve. Or and all of a sudden land opportunity where we need to pony up a little bit to get what we really need. Mayor Mancino: To buy that golf course. Jan Lash: Right. But I'm talking little. We never have enough for a golf course. But it's some of those types of things where it can make the difference of making a nice neighborhood park or a you know lesser quality situation so I think you guys can figure this out tonight with the different things that were pulled together and again I would defer to Dale's expertise with the irrigation. If they can live without it, I think we all can so. Mayor Mancino: Okay, great. Councilwoman Jansen: Thanks Jan. Mayor Mancino: So it kind of sounds like a combination of using all the leftovers and taking the John Deere and taking it out of the equipment fund and having you and Dale decide on the irrigation. Whether you want it to stay for, and do it next year and then taking. Councilman Labatt: I just want to, I had a couple questions .... Bob Ayotte: Could you talk into the mic now? 22 City Council Meeting - February 22, 1999 Councilman Labatt: Yeah. The color court surfacing for the City Center Park. So we'll see that again next year in the budget process? Todd Hoffman: Adding it back in? Councilman Labatt: Yeah. Todd Hoffman: We may put it back in, yeah. It's one of those niceties. Councilman Labatt: I mean it is. I mean I agree. By eliminating it, and we're just putting down a slab of asphalt and that's how it's going to look like for a couple years. Todd Hoffman: Some white painted lines instead of the green and. Councilman Labatt: If you take the $4,000.00 from, well actually it was about $4,800.00...1 hate to cut out painting the court. I think it would look nice to finish it off and I'd hate to deduct that out of there. And by leaving it in Option #3, using the $8,200.00 from the other two reserves, or outstanding balances. Councilwoman Jansen: So if I follow you. If you put the $8,200.00 back in, we're then just what, $1,300.00 short if that then came from excess reserves? Would that, put that back in? Todd Hoffman: These are forecasted budgets. Councilman Engel: Yeah, not real money. Todd Hoffman: These projects are not done so when we're talking about a million and a half dollar project and we have a $4,000.00 reserve, that's pretty tight so. Mayor Mancino: Okay. So let me hear a motion please. Can anybody put that together? Councilman Labatt: Let me just write some notes real quick. Councilman Engel: I'm not sure we've reached consensus on that use of that $8,300.00. Mayor Mancino: Okay let me. I'll make a motion. Number one. Bob Ayotte: Mayor? Mayor Mancino: Excuse me. Bob Ayotte: May I ask a question at all? Mayor Mancino: This isn't a public hearing but you can come up and ask a question if you'd like. We're just getting down to a motion finally. Come on up Bob. Bob Ayotte: Bob Ayotte, Cascade Pass. Are life cycle costs included in the, in any of the options? Or, and are life cycle costs included in the referendum for extension of life of any of the product that's being made. Do we know? 23 City Council Meeting - February 22, 1999 Mayor Mancino: Todd, are they? Todd Hoffman: Describe your interpretation of life cycle. Bob Ayotte: Well ifI have a path that I buy for $10,000.00, I want it to live for a period of time. Let's say 20 years. So the recurring cost to sustain that for 20 years would not be $5,000.00. It might be 15. It might be 20. So when I as a resident voted for the referendum and was told that I was going to get 30 paths, 16 playgrounds and so on for $4.5 million, the inference is that's a one time cost. Now if it's not, if life cycle isn't included in that, do taxes cover the recurring expense as a result of the introduction of the product? You know you were getting into it Councilwoman Jansen. You were starting to hit that with watering and so forth. There's a recurring expense so is that included? Todd Hoffman: No it is not. Bob Ayotte: So when the referendum was presented and people voted on a $4.5, did they understand that recurring costs associated with what we purchased with the $4.5 would come out of taxes? Was that understood? Mayor Mancino: There was a general statement, I don't have the brochure with me but it was, I think one of the last questions in the Q and A section. There was a Q and A section as part of the brochure, the pamphlet that went to each resident and it was not, what do I want to say? Itemized but the general statement was that there will be ongoing maintenance costs and that these would be covered by the growth in our city and the added tax dollars. Bob Ayotte: Okay. So what I would request is that when you look at your option, you may be wise to consider and ask the questions of what the reoccurring expenses would be when you introduce an increase. Because that keeps on the ever rolling ball. Thank you. Mayor Mancino: Sure. Thank you. Okay. Let me get a motion from what I have heard which is not Option 1, 2 or 3. It would be Option #4. To keep the asphalt color court surfacing, the $9,500.00 in. To have on the irrigation system, to have Dale and Todd talk that through. Whether they want to do it this year or wait till next year. Three, on the John Deere tractor. To take that funding from the equipment funding budget that we have. And to use any of the extra reserves from the trail project and the neighborhood parks project to fund those items that I just talked about. And to access 410 reserves for any other differential. Is there a second? Councilman Senn: So who... Mayor Mancino: Todd, you have a question? Todd Hoffman: Councilman Senn. Mayor Mancino: Councilman Senn. Councilman Senn: In what you said is the irrigation in or is it out? 24 City Council Meeting - February 22, 1999 Mayor Mancino: I said that as far as this year it was up to Todd and Dale to decide that and if it is in, it would come from 410. From the reserves. Todd Hoffman: Another clarification. Again as I indicated, the $4,000.00 plus or minus forecasted budget, you know those are forecasted. If those run short, do you want me to be back here before the council or take the necessary thousand dollars out of fund 410 to balance those out? Bring it to your attention? Mayor Mancino: ... bring it to our attention. I mean let's see where we're at. Todd Hoffman: Yep. And then clarification on protocol. I want to make sure people understand where I'm coming from with communication between the council on capital projects and the park and recreation commission. I certainly copied the park and recreation commission on this correspondence. It's their business to know what's going on. If there were items that I was recommending the city council delete for this year which the park and recreation commission were involved in putting into the budget, they certainly would have been the first body to see this. The irrigation systems control and the John Deere tractor were not wish list items for the park and recreation commission. And so that's why I brought it directly to the council just to speed up the process and notifying the commission of what is going on with the project budget. Mayor Mancino: Thank you for that explanation. We appreciate it. All those in favor of the motion signify by saying aye. Resolution #99-15: Mayor Mancino moved, Councilman Engel seconded to approve the budget amendment authorizing the following detailed items totaling $67,030.53 to balance the community parks project: 1. To keep the asphalt color court surfacing, $9,500.00 in. To have Dale Gregory and Todd Hoffman discuss whether to put the irrigation system controller in this or next year. 3. Take the funding for the John Deere tractor from the equipment funding budget. Use any of the extra reserves from the trail project and the neighborhood parks project to fund those items listed above. 5. Access fund 410 reserves for any other differential. All voted in favor, except Councilman Senn who opposed, and the motion carried with a vote of 4 to 1. Mayor Mancino: Todd, when do we expect the City Center Park to be done? Todd Hoffman: You'll see green grass growing by June 15th. And then we will not be playing on City Center this year. It will grow grass for the entire summer. Mayor Mancino: All of '99? 25 City Council Meeting - February 22, 1999 Todd Hoffman: City Center, correct. And then the school children should be able to be out in the park in the fall. We will be playing on Bandimere for part of 1999. Councilman Engel: When will we see grass there? Todd Hoffman: It's already there. Councilman Engel: I haven't gone up to take a look at that. That's right, it's sod. I forgot. Mayor Mancino: And we do have that, in City Center Park we have the area, the garden for the seniors all plotted? Or we will? Todd Hoffman: As part of City Center? We're talking about that little triangle across the street, yep. Mayor Mancino: Thank you. C. 1999 SKATE PARK~ PARK & RECREATION DIRECTOR. Todd Hoffman: Mayor, do you have other items or would you like to watch part of this now or do you want to go ahead and take your other items and do this at the end of the meeting? Talk about the skate park. It's more of a work session type item. Mayor Mancino: Well we just have one other thing so go ahead. That's fine. Todd Hoffman: Okay, got it. Great. The 1999 park and trail acquisition and development CIP, back to that same program, identifies $50,000.00, for more or less what I would call seed money for a skate park. City Center Park was a half a million dollar makeover for this site. One of the goals of the park and recreation commission as a part of that makeover was to accommodate a group of mostly young people that had been coming into the park and recreation commission meetings for approximately two years. They had an interest and a need for an aggressive skate park where you can participate in jumps and ramps for not only inline skates but for skateboards. Those kids are kicked out of most areas within the city. We allow them to go ahead and participate in those activities on the City Hall premises, but we do talk to them about safety and courtesy when they're here doing that. But they feel a little bit left out and this is an up and coming trend in public park systems to allow for and to accommodate and invest in skate parks. So the commission has worked on that. They made the recommendation to include some dollars in the 1999 CIP that we did not, again with the tight budgets, we did not have enough money. You need $40,000.00 to $60,000.00 to $80,000.00 to buy the kind of jumps and ramps that they're talking about and we didn't have that kind of money in the project fund. So what I would see, but there is a great interest in the community. What I would see the council doing is initiating a grass roots campaign to generate dollars. There's lots of information in your packet which talks about capital campaigns as independent capital campaigns gaining up to $100,000.00 for these type of projects. You allow them to initiate that campaign. Manage the project with the guidance of the park commission and bring the recommendations back to the city council on this construction. And this video, the S Park Revolution really just portrays what we're talking about so if you want to take 5 or 10 minutes. I think we talked about the responsibility to providing for all groups of citizens but.., critical. They would consider themselves I think, even though these kids are all great kids, they're a little bit... 26 City Council Meeting - February 22, 1999 A video was shown at this point in the meeting. Todd Hoffman: Again, so the series of events leading to this point is that we have a budgeted allocation and what would the Council like to see the staff initiate as far as the process to get this done? Mayor Mancino: We have an initial $15,000.00 budgeted for this project. Is there anyone here tonight that would like to talk about skate parks? Jan Lash: Jan Lash, Park and Rec. And I think we're discussing this tomorrow, right Todd? At our commission meeting. Todd Hoffman: Yeah, we've got it on. Jan Lash: So I just read the information I think that you guys received and I guess I was a little surprised that there was this level of concern at the council level because we've been discussing this for about three years. We've had many different young residents, and of course they come in when they're at their peak age. When they would like to do this and then we haven't been able to move on it for a long time and of course in a couple of years they get their drivers license and then they're done skateboarding and, a lot of them. But it's a different group. And we really were moved many times by the organization that some of these, I think it was mostly boys wasn't it Todd? Young boys came in and you know they came with letters. They came with petitions. They came with videos. They were really, really highly motivated and had a level of frustration because they couldn't go anywhere. If they want over to Market Square they got into trouble. And the businesses were all over them. They were getting kicked out of everywhere and there was no place for them to go. You know we tried to put hard surface in at Bluff Creek but that's not what they had in mind. They don't want to just skate back and forth. They want the ramps and what you saw in the video. As a parent you look at it, it's your worst nightmare but as a commission I look at it as it was a resident, residents coming to us with a need. So we needed to look at it as a commission. I think we did what we were charged to do and it kept coming up year after year after year as different kids would reach this age and it's still very highly interesting activity for them so we took that on and we've seen the videos. We've done tons of research. Todd has done a fabulous job of providing us with a lot of different information on it and when we had the opportunity to replan City Center, we thought it was the perfect location being so centrally located in the city. Wouldn't mean a lot of transportation issues for parents. And so we decided to move forward with that and it always has been part of the plan so I guess I was surprised when I read in my packet this weekend that it seemed to be an issue or a concern with some of the councilmembers so. Mayor Mancino: Well I'm not sure it's an issue or a concern. Just kind of knowing how we proceed forward and making sure that council had to buy into, if we're going to go over the $15,000.00 budget, how do we do it and etc. Jan Lash: I think we were hoping to be creative in either tapping some of the young people and their talents and their knowledge and their labor. You know we had discussions about possibly going to the high school. Talking to shop teachers to see if they'd be willing to take it on as a class project. I certainly feel strongly we need to go to some of the business people at Market Square. I think we're taking a huge pain away from them and they could put up advertising. You know we could do some types of things like that but I think it's time for them to put a little of their money where their mouth is there too because we're solving a problem for them. So we're trying to be creative in coming up with ways to supplement the $15,000.00. We know that's just a drop in the bucket to really do a decent job with this and we understand 27 City Council Meeting - February 22, 1999 that but we're trying to be creative and getting it going and that was some seed money to see that it would finally take off. Mayor Mancino: Great, thank you. Actually the first article was in a community of 21,000, not much bigger than we are and they raised $170,000.00 from 460 donors for the park so. And they did it with a combination of the youth leading the fund raising. Park and rec, council members, business leaders, etc. Civic organizations, etc. So I think this is a great model for us. Anyone else wishing to address the council on skate parks? Okay. Discussion with council. And again, Todd what you want is just some sort of how to proceed. It's not motion, etc. Taking it back to the park and rec commission who will work out the details. But giving you conceptually how we'd like you to proceed. Okay. Councilwoman Jansen. Councilwoman Jansen: Actually it was those numbers from the articles that led me to call Todd and say how much is this going to cost? They said $170,000.00 and $125,000.00. We have $15,000.00 and he was saying that somewhere between $40,000.00 and $80,000.00 was the best guess as to what their conceptualizing, yep. Could be the range as far as what types of jumps and ramps and what type of set up we're talking about. The one question that, and thank you for showing that video tape. That was real informative I thought. The one thing that caught my interest was they were showing that on some of the different public properties, the wear and tear of the boarding. What types of ramps and, you know what is the sturdiness? What are we talking about as far as the type of wear and tear and then the maintenance on a facility like this that's getting that kind of an aggressive use? Todd Hoffman: It's a variety of design levels and so you can go from back yard. We've all seen them to some very nice structures that you saw in the video. The cost comparison I think comes in that rounded concrete. That's not part of this proposal. You saw a couple of sites that they had just a flat, either concrete or asphalt surface and then the jumps on top. That's what you would see here at City Center Park. Just behind City Hall. And it would be an asphalt surface with wood, plywood and wood jumps and ramps. They may include some fiberglass ramping, which you make the curves with as a part of the development. But again it's, you know up front investment and then, versus long term maintenance and appearance. We would want these materials to look you know somewhat presentable right here at City Hall in the center of our city. The John Rose Oval just completed their second initiative for a total of somewhere over $80,000.00 in jumps and ramps at the John Rose Oval. They're hoping to make money on people coming down to the John Rose Oval out of the seven county metro area to utilize those facilities. Those are all wood ramps. Councilman Labatt: Where's that? Todd Hoffman: In Roseville. John Rose Oval, the big skating oval. Councilman Labatt: Oh, okay. Councilwoman Jansen: So are we talking about those huge U ramps that they were showing? I mean they're actually going to be doing those sorts of loop-d-loops? Mayor Mancino: It hasn't been designed yet has it? Todd Hoffman: No, it hasn't been designed but, and there's also. Councilwoman Jansen: Little ones? 28 City Council Meeting - February 22, 1999 Todd Hoffman: Not little ones. They're going to be as tall as the ceiling but if you take a look at the, there's a diagram in the packet which shows some stick diagrams. Something like that is what you're talking about. There's a variety of different apparatus that they're going to use. Not as pretty as a ballfield and that's one of the, you know that's one of the difficulties to getting these things developed. Councilwoman Jansen: Then I guess the only question that I had was, we haven't really talked about our goals and objectives with the whole strategic plan and where this type of a fund raising effort fits in with the big picture. The overall picture. Are we going to be you know going to the community on any other projects that we foresee or, those were the only things that really came up as I went through this. I thought it was a wonderful effort to put together the whole proposal on the whole grass roots movement and actually get these people involved in helping to fund a facility like this. And I don't know if we tapped into then the same people. If we're talking about going to the Market Square businesses, are we going to them once for this and then will there be something else down the line this year? I don't know if we've talked far enough ahead on those sorts of things but just to throw that out maybe for conversation or. Mayor Mancino: Sure, for discussion. That's a good question. Councilwoman Jansen: That's all I would have right now. Mayor Mancino: Councilman Senn. Councilman Senn: The proposal.., as far as the effort that Linda was just talking about... I think we need to throw it back into the process and see what kicks out for priorities. Mayor Mancino: Councilman Engel. Councilman Engel: Well I'm just looking at what's on the page. I'm definitely not, starting and doing what we can with it... and get off the starting block with that so. Back to the committee. Come up with a budget and a plan. Find alternative sources.., little bit farther than you but not too much farther. Mayor Mancino: Okay. Councilman Labatt. Councilman Labatt: Kind of along the same lines as everybody else. I mean it's a subject, an idea and it obviously needs more thought and research on it. I'd also, I kind of look at it somehow to share the expenses. Obviously there are going to be kids from other communities using this project or this.., money from cities around the area to help fund it... I don't know. Something, it needs more looking at but I also kind of want to keep in contact with other recreation activities and not to take away from this project.., but I want to... Mayor Mancino: Okay. I'll try to take all that together and say number one, conceptually I think it's a great idea. Grass roots. Getting all different members of the community together. Building it. Raising the money. I'm a very firm believer in the skate park. It would be helpful at the park and recreation commission tomorrow night, number one to say are there other activities for...that the park and rec is going to be soliciting donations for. So for you guys to know...activities in the city. March 1st we are going to start as a council on the strategic plan so we can see, it's going to take two work sessions in March for us hopefully to figure out our priorities.., other funding donations from a big picture... And if this is part of that, then I think it goes back to park and rec to create a model on how to, how to get the money to do it... 29 City Council Meeting - February 22, 1999 city and who's all involved in it and how do we go about raising money for a project like this. So first, just going back and what you know right now...to you to work out the details of that model. Any other... ? So that puts us about a month away from really getting anywhere. Going forward. I think it's a great idea. Please come forward. Leah Hawke: Leah Hawke, 7444 Moccasin Trail. I'm just wondering if this group would consider working with the various PTO organizations within the schools because I think that if there's some awareness that this may be going on, those groups may be interested in letting their respective people know and I think the kids would be all for it frankly. Mayor Mancino: Leah, I think that's hopefully one of the things that the park and rec will come up with is a model for who would be, you know community wide involved in it. Funding raising and helping out. Good. COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS: Mayor Mancino: Next on the agenda is under council presentations, which is now number 9. Councilman Engel has a, do you want to go ahead with this? This is prepared and attached Law Enforcement Task Force Resolution and can you go ahead and explain this. Councilman Engel: Well after last week's or the discussion over the last several weeks, we've come to the point where we want an Advisory Committee to study law enforcement options and any committee I've been involved on, whether it's public or private, wants and needs direction so I tried to net it out in words what we discussed as a group so that we can kick this thing off. Mayor Mancino: Good. Could you just read your directives so that we can all follow along with you on the directives part. On what the task force does. Or the advisory committee. Councilman Engel: Sure. We're just going to go through the directive section or do you want to go through, do you want me to read this whole thing to everybody? Mayor Mancino: Whatever you'd like to do. Councilman Engel: I'd like to submit it to Todd and let him get started on it but if you want me to enter it into the record by reading the whole thing I can. Or do you just want me to go to the directive section? Mayor Mancino: I would enter the whole thing, thank you. Councilman Engel: Okay. Little background on it. For a law enforcement advisory committee that the current staffing past recommendations from our previous city manager.., back from the community. New program based budget focus have led the city council to organize a more compatible city hall department structure to that structure is to combine finance and administrative service department, community development department that absorbs building officials grouped into the current planning department. There's going to be a separate fire department reporting directly to the city manager. Separate law enforcement department reporting directly to the city manager. And the directive for the advisory committee is to, well I'll just read it. The council's particularly interested in how to best deliver law enforcement services to the city. We want the best comprehensive coverage and quality of service at the lowest possible price to our taxpayers. This specific directive to the advisory committee is to explore 3O City Council Meeting - February 22, 1999 multiple options to improve upon our existing Carver County police contract. And council would like information regarding whether it could be a complete mm key contract with all the county or with the county providing all necessary services. Or if there are economic and quality of services advantages by delivering certain aspects through the city of Chanhassen. Council is not soliciting any more input on creating or filling new or old job descriptions or alternative organizational structures and we'll take the committee's recommendation under consideration. As with all advisory bodies, not bound by any specific recommendation. Advisory committee members we discussed at the last week would be Councilman Labatt, Councilwoman Jansen, Sheriff's Department representative, Acting City Manager, and two Public Safety Commission members, and a citizen at large. From a timing standpoint we'd like the advisory committee to report back to council with multiple options with related benefits and cost comparisons at the April 26th City Council meeting. Mayor Mancino: If this went a little over April 26th, that would.., because if we put the ad in the paper for the citizen at large, it may take a few weeks to get it started even to have it meet. So the April 26th, it could certainly be a check in meeting. Here's where we're at and.., advisory committee wanted some more time to come back.., their due diligence, would that be okay? Councilman Engel: Sure. I think the proper thing to do is just keep netting this thing out so it doesn't become a never ending thing but we sit down discuss with the committee where they're at and how much time they think they need and want to develop more options. Pick a date and make that our target date to report back. Mayor Mancino: Okay. Todd, do you have any questions on this? Todd Gerhardt: No. Mayor Mancino: It's clear? Todd Gerhardt: Well I'm just going to sit down on Wednesday with Mark and you to discuss kind of finance/administrative service department but as to the law enforcement advisory committee, that's very clear. Mayor Mancino: And you could go ahead and put an ad in the paper. Todd Gerhardt: Sure. Mayor Mancino: Okay, good. Todd Gerhardt: I don't know if it will make this week but it definitely will be out for next week. Mayor Mancino: Alright, thank you. Any other comments from council members? Councilman Labatt: Are we going to have the, the Public Safety Commission themselves appoint two members? Mayor Mancino: ... commission members. But discussion? Councilman Engel: I hadn't thought about it. 31 City Council Meeting - February 22, 1999 Councilwoman Jansen: Hadn't thought about it. Mayor Mancino: Why don't you think about that and...do we need to make a motion since this is a resolution? Todd Gerhardt: Yeah, I mean if you want it in resolution form accepting this as the findings of fact or terms of your action. Mayor Mancino: ... Todd Gerhardt: No. Mayor Mancino: Okay. Just so everyone understands... Okay, thanks. Next item is the Administrative Section Discussion. Councilwoman Jansen: Actually could I just add one thing to the council presentation? Mayor Mancino: Sure. Councilwoman Jansen: Sorry. We talked about reporting in after any meetings that we had attended so I've given you all a copy of, just some of the highlights from yep, the 212 coalition meeting. And since Anita had really talked about a lot of what the coalition had discussed as far as right-of-way. I thought it was interesting information to just note what Commissioner Tinklinberg had said were Governor Ventura's key points as far as his issues as well as his own. But they're looking at the whole partnership. The multimodal and then making the projects happen as Otto had mentioned earlier this evening. It's a big push for him to get the money to the projects. So they've definitely raised that as an issue. I also noted from the senior commission meeting on Friday that Jill Shipley was in from Friends of the Library as well as Mayor Mancino presenting the strategic plan. And the big push from the Friends of the Library is really they're trying to raise their own visibility within the community so they are trying to get more involved in some of the events that are going on. Most recently they had contacted Jerry Ruegemer from our parks and rec and had opted to be the sponsors for the home medallion hunt on at the February Festival. Again, just in raising kind of the recognition of their group and doing a members drive, I had suggested to them that some of our most motivated and dedicated volunteers are on our commissions and so it might behoove them to just make those sorts of contacts and have their meetings be known and what they're trying to do as far as the activities they're getting involved in. So that was the main emphasis there. The seniors seem to really like the idea of the networking between commissions so they were raising the point with staff to see if they couldn't better somehow facilitate having all of the commissions being aware of others events so that even they themselves could get involved in any of the parks and rec commission events that you need volunteers for and they're really an active. Mayor Mancino: Gardening and. Councilwoman Jansen: Yep. Gardening. Getting the whole horticultural club tied in with them. So more of an information sharing is what they had talked about amongst the commissions which I thought was pretty terrific. The other point that I noted on here is, and I think everyone knows that I've been attending a lot of the commission meetings. And I want to continue doing that, if only because it does make that contact between council and the commissions and I think there then can be that ready feedback and I don't 32 City Council Meeting - February 22, 1999 know, just an awareness. There's been questions about whether or not there would be a council liaison if you would. Someone had mentioned that once in the past or at some point in the past, and Gerhardt maybe you are more familiar with this. That there used to be council liaisons to each one of the commissions. Was it more formalized at some point? Todd Gerhardt: Well I don't think it was formalized. I think it was kind of a volunteer situation. We did have members that would attend HRA meetings and come back and provide updates. Mayor Mancino: The Planning Commission has it fairly formalized in that they do a rotating. Every council meeting there's a planning commissioner that kind of is at the city council meeting. If they have any questions, it then goes back to the planning commission and talks about what happened at the city council meeting or any questions that they have that they got answered. But that has been a fairly formal rotation that has gone on for the four years that I was on the planning commission. Councilwoman Jansen: So it's them attending ours? Mayor Mancino: Yes. Councilwoman Jansen: Not us attending there's? Mayor Mancino: They're attending ours. Councilwoman Jansen: Okay. Because I know within parks and rec and their last meeting. Mayor Mancino: It just depends because sometimes, because we have so many more meetings that that is why the commissions, you know some commissions just meet once a month so it's a little easier for one of their members to come to a council meeting because we have so many more meetings that we go to. I think it was... Councilwoman Jansen: Okay. I just noted it on here. I didn't know if it was something to consider as far as attending you know maybe a meeting quarterly or, I'll be going. So I just, just so everyone's aware. I am attending, unless I've got a conflict within my own schedule so just for no surprises mention. And then for the parks and rec commission, for tomorrow night's meeting I had mentioned to everyone that as our committee was calling around to the different commissions, getting feedback for the commission proposal that we were considering in shifting the functions, some issues had come up within the parks and rec commission as to the budgeting process and how we had handled the 410. So I'm just going to be going in there tomorrow night and having the conversation on more the big picture as to what happened with the general fund direction that we're going. Why some of the shifts had occurred the way the shifts had occurred so nothing that we didn't already discuss but maybe hasn't been shared or they're not as aware of that did affect parks and rec and their planning. I know I wasn't as conscience of the fact that the parks and rec commission put a lot of time into the whole budgeting and planning on fund 410. So that was news to me and being a freshman on the council I think I can learn from them also as to what the planning process is on their part. Mayor Mancino: And I would just make a recommendation that you take a senior member of the council with you that did vote on the 1999 budget. I think that would be helpful. Councilwoman Jansen: Sure. 33 City Council Meeting - February 22, 1999 Mayor Mancino: Great. Good, thank you. Thank you very much. Great. It will be interesting for the Southwest Corridor Coalition meeting on 212 that you got on your first page. As we look at the 212 corridor and the new administration wants to change automobile to 40 and transit to 60, as we look at the design how that's going to work. Councilwoman Jansen: I was surprised to have them say that 40% of the commuters go into downtown actually use transit. Of the 175,000 employees commuting into downtown. I thought that was significant. Mayor Mancino: ... wouldn't believe those numbers. Councilwoman Jansen: True. Mayor Mancino: Thanks, any comments? Any questions? Councilman Labatt: Thanks to Linda for the notes. Mayor Mancino: On Thursday night of this week I will be going to a Southwest Metro Transit meeting, my first one so, in March at a council meeting I'll be getting back to you and letting you know what happened at that commission meeting. Councilwoman Jansen and Councilman Senn, when's the first 212 corridor meeting, do you know? You both were appointed on that. Do you have any idea? Councilwoman Jansen: No notice yet. I mean we did just have the one on the 12th SO if they do them. Mayor Mancino: Do they have regular meetings do you know? Okay. Let us know when you know. Councilwoman Jansen: I think it just turned into more regular as the heat picked up on it so they were saying, in fact in the last meeting that they had tried to get Ted Mondale to attend this February meeting and of course he had just come on board so they were speculating that they might be able to get him for the next meeting. To come in and speak. Mayor Mancino: Oh, would you let us know that? Councilwoman Jansen: Absolutely. Mayor Mancino: Thank you. Any questions, discussion on the administrative section? ADMINISTRATIVE SECTION DISCUSSION: None. Mayor Mancino: Bev, you came late for Visitor Presentations. Do you want to take a few minutes? Great, and then we'll end the meeting. Thank you. Bev Richter: Bev Richter, 7608 Huron Avenue. I'm sorry I came late. I have a concern that I wanted to bring to the council because I've been dealing with it for a while through Bob Zydowsky at City Hall and getting not really a lot of progress happening. I'm concerned about the dump that is in the middle of downtown Chanhassen at the comer of ChanView and Great Plains. I don't know how many of you have had a chance to see it. I brought pictures in case you haven't had a chance to see it. We have somewhere between 20 and 30 pink appliances covered with various different colored tarps sitting in the middle of 34 City Council Meeting - February 22, 1999 downtown Chanhassen. I first called about this, by the way they've been there since late fall. I first called about this in mid-November. Talked to Bob Zydowsky. Between mid-November and the first of the year he made a phone call that wasn't returned and he sent a letter that wasn't answered. I called him back and I said you know, this doesn't really look to me like progress. He sent on the 9th, by the way I have 10 more if you want to see the rest of it. On the 9th he sent a letter to the gentleman who's name is Don MacCarville who owns the property. Sent it basically giving him 14 days to clean it up. Mr. MacCarville called him. Left a message last week on his voice mail saying I hear there's a letter over at the post office for me but I'm leaving on vacation and I don't have time.., cleaning this up. This gentleman has kept a mess there for 25 years. This is not new. It's simply gotten worse and worse and worse. A lot worse. Now I find out from Bob Zydowsky that the ground is also saturated with old dry cleaning fluid and that it's a toxic waste dump. A block and a half from my house. Across the street from Chapel Hill Academy. Right in the middle of downtown Chanhassen. And all we do is send you know letters, make phone calls and let the man go on vacation who knows where and not pick up letters and I'm just here to say, I've made a number of phone calls. I've talked to Mayor Mancino. I talked to Councilman Labatt. I have found Bob Zydowsky's handling of it minimal and I'd like to know how and what we can do about this. It's been an eye sore for 25 years. I drive by it every day. I originally presented it as an issue of visual pollution. Now I find out it's also a toxic waste dump. Mayor Mancino: Okay. Roger, legally if we send a certified letter and saying that they have 14 days to clean it up and they don't go and pick up the certified letter, what right do we have to continue? Roger Knutson: When there's a code violation, you try to get, through the normal process, to try to get voluntary cooperation to it to a point. When that is not effective, then we can cite him criminally. Mayor Mancino: Okay. So it has been 14 days and we can continue. Okay. Bev, did you hear that? Did you understand that? Bev Richter: ... Roger Knutson: We can cite him if there's a code violation. Mayor Mancino: Yes, we can cite him. Bev Richter: ... Todd Gerhardt: Yes. Mayor Mancino: So he will be cited. What about the. Bev Richter: ...does that mean the dump will leave the end of my block? Or will I still be looking at... Roger Knutson: Anyone who's been to court knows it doesn't happen over night. But this is the first time I've heard about it anyway. You made a presentation this evening. We'll look into it immediately and if there are code violations, we'll cite him immediately and start the process. Councilman Engel: How much time does he have to respond? 35 City Council Meeting - February 22, 1999 Roger Knutson: Probably be in, depending on the calendar, he could be in court in 30 days. Something like that. Under an arraignment. Todd Gerhardt: The citation will stimulate a court proceedings, correct? Roger Knutson: That starts it. How soon we get to court on a trial depends on the court's calendar. Councilman Engel: It certainly sounds like that's probably what needs to happen to motivate him. Roger Knutson: It can motivate him. Mayor Mancino: Todd, can you keep up conversation with Bev so she knows what's going on? Todd Gerhardt: ...phone number and address. And we have talked on the phone and I've updated her. You received a letter on? Bev Richter: I did receive a letter and then I called Bob Zydowsky... Todd Gerhardt: The 14 days is ticking. We're living by the letter and he's aware of the situation. Mayor Mancino: Councilman Senn. Councilman Senn: What is the letter Todd that's being referenced? Is it a citation for code violation or what is it? Todd Gerhardt: Yes. Outside storage of, non permitted outside storage of equipment. Mayor Mancino: Okay. Also, what is the responsibility of the toxic waste in the soils? Of the owner. Roger Knutson: If there are toxic wastes there, there's... MPCA to enforcement. I'll talk to Mr. Zydowsky tomorrow and find out what we know about what was dumped there and if we know that hazardous materials were dumped there, we'll notify the MPCA immediately. Mayor Mancino: Thank you. Thank you for coming. Good night everyone. Mayor Mancino adjourned the meeting at 9:00 p.m. Submitted by Todd Gerhardt Acting City Manager Prepared by Nann Opheim 36