1978 03 14
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SPECIAL CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL MEETING MARCH 14, 1978
PUBLIC HEARING
PROPOSED NORTH LAKE SUSAN SANITARY SE~ŒR,WATER, STREET, AND
STORM SEWER IMPROVEMENT PROJECT 78-3
Mayor Hobbs called the hearing to order at 7:55 p.m. with the following
members present: Councilmen Geving and Waritz. Councilmen Pearson
and Neveaux were absent. The following interested persons were
present:
Mr. and Mrs. Victor Schmieg, Box 42, Hackensack, MN
Dave Appelhof, Animal Fair
Robert MacDonald, Animal Fair
Charles Towle, Strong Towle¡' Inc.
Don Wisniewski, Carver County Courthouse
Bill Engelhardt¡Schoelland Madso~
Ed Dunn, Dunn and Curry
Julius C. Smith, 7101 York Ave. So., Mpls.
Martin Ward
Russell Larson
Al Klingelhutz, 8601 Great p'lains Blvd., Chanhassen
Craig Mertz
Jerry Schlenk
Bob Waibel
The official notice was published in the Carver County Herald on
March 1 and March 8, 1978, and notices were mailed to property owners
who may be potentially assessed for the improvements.
Bill Brezinsky, City Engineer, gave the presentation of the Feasibility
Study prepared by Schoell and Madson and dated'February 1978 and as
updated through the project map noted as Exhibit A dated March 14,
1978, and on file in the city clerk's office and through the cost
estimates as presented in Exhibit B dated March 14, 1978, and on file
in the city clerk's office.
Written: comments have been' received from,B.'Q..:Burdick, Riley Purgatory
Creek Watershed District and the Chanhassen Planning Commission. These
letters are on file in the office of the city clerk.
The hearing was opened for comments and questions from the floor.
Victor Schmieg - When is this project going to be started?
Bill Brezinsky - If the projeet was authorized by the Council the
first part of April, we would have plans ready by
the end of r.~ay to submit 'back to the Council for
their approval and authorization to get bids. We
would go out for bids, probably received in mid-June
and we would expect construction to begin shortly
after the bids are taken. It would be toward the
end of June.
Victor Schmieg - That is on the watermains or the road or what?
Bill Brezinsky - It would not include County Road 17. That isn't a
part of this project. The first phase of the project
we would expect to be construction of this
watermain connection in West 78th Street._ That is
the first thing that would be done.
Don Ashworth - You shöuld note that as part of the project though,
would be acquisition of right-of-way for new County
Road 17. Don Wisiniewski is here from the county
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if anyone has questions as far as when they may
propose to start that road, etc.
Ed Dunn - I have a few points I would like to make. We should
start looking at the fact that the traffic study also
ignored any road connections of any kind ±o old County
Road 17 and there are two clearly shown. Whether they
will prove workable or not maybe is open to question
but they appear to be feasible. We have existing access
on Highway 5, depending on whether we can or should
I haven't conceded in my own mind, necessarily will
that not be an access there. There are two existing
accesses near that point and I think it's approximately
across from the access to the park (Lake Ann Park).
That at least should be a considaration in the traffic
study.
Could the owners, most of whom I think are represented
here, have copies of that summary schedule so we all
have the same sheet to work from.
Bill Brezinsky - Yes.
Ed Dunn - There hasn't been any comment and I realize that the
decision will be made at an assessment hearing but I
would comment on the range of provisions that could be
made for the payment of 'these :assessments. Iunderstand
that you are not going to know that for certain until
you have had your hearings but some of the people would
probably be interested in that including myself.
In connection with the taking of right-of-way, the owners
of the property would be assessed back for the cost of
the improvement, would be selling that right-of-way
under acquisition to the County. Is that correct?
Bill Brezinsky - Yes.
Mayor Hobbs - I think other than asking for copies which we will
see that you can get and asking about spreading
the cost, mostof'your other comments were statements.
You are right Mr. Dunn, the assessment hearing would
determine the amount of time that the city council
would allow the assessments to be spread. I suppose
if the project were authorized, we would have to
consult with our fiscal agent and look at bond
interest rates, that type of thing. However, as I am
sure you are aware normally industrial type assessments
are not spread as long as residential assessments
if that gives you any guide.
Ed Dunn - But there would probably be some term of payment different
from cash.
Mayor Hobbs - I am sure there would.
Charles Towle - lam not directly affected by the proceedings. I
have property directly across the street and I
would like to speak as an interested taxpayer in
the community. It appears to be an excellent
project. I think it would be an excellent addition
for Chanhassen. This is really the first I have
had a chance to be exposed to it and the city should
be complimented.
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Council Meeting March 14, 1978
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Dave Appelhof - I would like to offer for the official record
a letter which is submitted by Animal Fair. My name
is Dave Appelhof. with me is Bob MacDonald one of the
owners of Animal Fair. I am the Chief Operating
Officer of Animal Fair. This letter basically says
several things. It really highlights who we are. It
tells how we have developed as a company and many of
the benefits that we offertQ Chan'haSsen which we feel
some of them are; we give you national recognition
in relation to our product tags that we have on the
product and also in our national advertising our home
is Chanhassen. Our national TV appearances of some
of our characters such as Big Foot which are planning
i~ coming up this fall, our packaging and basically
our product on the retail shelves across the country
which again bears the tag of Animal Fair of Chanhassen,
Minnesota. As a member of the Chanhassen community
Animal Fair provides several things. One of which,
it provides industrial tax base. We presently have
80 employees in which we are an expanding company
and again these 80 employees will grow up to somewhere
over 100 to 150. We provide a very clean,highly
desirable type of industry. It is a very low
pollutant typè of industry that we operate. We are
basically designing a building'which has been through
the various stages of the Planning Commission which
basically is in very much'agreement to their
topographical and component planning which they have
setforth. We would like you, as a Council, to know
that we want to remain in Chanhassen. We strongly
want to remain in Chanhassen. Our present lease expires
this summer. Our plans have been submitted to the
Planning Commission and our architectural drawings
are being completed for an anticipated May 1st ground
breaking. We really, at Animal Fair as for your
support in the rezoning, subdivision and public utility
requirements necessary to obtain a building permit so
that we can begin construction on bur new Chanhassen
home and have completion and occupancy by October 1st.
Thank you.
Al Klingelhutz - I am a'member of the Chanhassen Chamber of Commerce.
We have discussed' this somewhat at the Chamber. Not
to the extent of the costs of the utilities or the
roads going in, but the Chamber hàs expressed that
there is much hope and desire that Animal Fair stay
within the boundaries of Chanhassen. I will be
presenting part of this to the Chamber next Tuesday
and will try to get an opinion to you as soon as
possible.
Martin Ward - I don't have a question at the moment. This is my first
exposure to any of the details while this thing, I know,
been in existance here since 1971 and I have had connection
with. it, more or less, with Mr. Dunn. It comes as
somewhat of a surprise tome tonight and frankly I just
can't follow the engineer's rapid explanation from the
map. I would like'to have an opportunity to study it
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especially having a map before me. The lqst speaker
will remember that the last time I,was before the
board on a matter similar to this we just had some
little 8 x 12 drawings which remained in the Council
Chamber and every time we wanted to discuss something
we had to come out here and go into the Council
Chamber and look at it. I wonder if there is any
possibility, in addition to the previous exhibit, if
we can have a copy of the larger exhibit that he has
been using in his talk. For example, I want to discuss
this thing at some length,if I am given time,with Mr.
Dunn. I can see from here for example, a sizable
piece of severance on my, land.
Mayor Hobbs - How do you define severance, Mr. Ward?
Martin Ward - The yellow line that you see in the far extreme piece
of land there severs that large portion of my land.
Mayor Hobbs - In terms of making one or the other parcels unusable?
Martin Ward - Yes.
Mayor Hobbs - Or making it unusable as a whole?
Martin Ward - Making the parcel as a whole unusable as a whole parcel
is today. It's severed on the general east and west
line and goes to another east and west line which I
assume is Highway 5. I realize the engineer said
that the topography of that line might be changed.
However it's changed if it's followed in its general
direction now there will be severance. It is a
little hard to discuss severance without having a
line or a map or photograph. The only map I have
seen is this small, I take it it's a, it's a, I
don't know what you call it
Russell Larson - It's a feasibility study.
Martin Ward - I know what the study is but I am talking about the
map. It's a little hard for me to use that and
discuss this matter. The only thing that I have
learned in the last day that I have been talking
about this because I was not at the Planning Commission
hearing, is that there is a suggested cost,so far as
I the owner of the farthest east piece there, of
something in excess of a quarter of a million dollars
assessment and I would like to at least have an
opportunity to figure out in the discussions with
the proposers of this whether or not that could be
changed in some way. It seems to me it's sizable
I realize that Mr. Dunn could pay that tomorrow in cash
if he had as he suggested but I don't think I could
make it tomorrow. By the way, in the sheet that I
saw ,that on, again I happen to be the highest assessed
taxpayer if that assessment goes through. I realize
that's in the future sometime but I am giving you
this as the reasons why I would like to study this
and discuss it. If the Council is intending to
proceed forthwith to either adopt or reject the
proposal or the petition or whatever the form is,
I would like to be given some time. I am not asking
for any elaborate time but I do think that in a
matter of this size, a quarter million dollars worth
of assessments facing me, either that or just abandon
the property, I think that I should be allowed to
have some time to discuss it with engineers and
appraisers and SO on. Also, I should like to have
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Council Meeting March 14, 1978
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these details, I realize the details are in here but
they are not really available tome, here in the Chamber
to 'discuss them with anybody. I am perfectly willing
to pay the cost of getting a copy of them. I would
like to have the Council tell me that I would have some
time to discuss this thing.
Mayor Hobbs - I think first of all Bill, we could get a map similar
to this one. How many acres do you have on that parcel?
Martin Ward - Seventy-seven and a half ,now tha.t, 5 was carved out of
the north part of my land. It started out to be two
40's on end.
Mayor Hobbs - I am a little confused on severance.
Martin Ward - That all depends where it is and what is on either side
of it. For example, if that were divided right in the
middle there would 'Þewhat's left of the north 40 and
whatl's left of the south 40. Sure it would be severed
but it wouldn't be damaging. I also own, I think,
I probably owned right up to there originally and they
carved this curve out of it to put in Highway 5 but in
the discussion on that with the Condemnation Commission
they said there was no severance so there is a vacant
piece of land north of my present north land that we
put the recent sewer in and it's never been developed.
That's severance. This is certainly severance.
Councilman Geving - As I understand it Mr. Ward, the reason for that
line was the continuation over here for this
other property to the east. That's more or less
why this was done but it doesn't necessarily
have to be the line.
Martin Ward - What is the benefit to me, wherever this line is? This
shoreline is already in.
Bill Brezinsky - No. It is east of Highway 101. The existing sewer
ends 'east' of 'High.way 101. These figures include
connecting to that and extending it up to Highway 5.
They don't include anything that's already in.
Mayor Hobbs - I think the engineer stated that he can get you a large
scale map as it's stated there. In terms of discussion,
I would anticipate that this item will probably come
back before the Council on or about the 3rd of April.
Martin Ward - That's only about two weeks from not". I would have to
take some steps to get more time so that I can discuss
these things.
Mayor Hobbs - What do you feel would be a reasonable time?
Martin Ward - I would say that certainly at least two weeks.
Mayor Hobbs - It could come up for discussion on the 3rd (April) and
depending on what has happened in terms of the date
between now and that time at the Council's pleasure
they could either vote on it or table it to the 17th
which would give it another two weeks. That would
be up to the Council.
Martin Ward - I am not clear, you say the 17th.
Mayor Hobbs - I am saying we could put it on as an agenda item on the
3rd which is three weeks from now and then depending on
how discussions had gone in that three week period, if
it appeared that another week or so would conclude them
at the Council's pleasure they could table the item to
the 17th before they took a vote. I cannot speak for the
Council.
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Martin Ward - In other words, appear on the 3rd and ask for what,
in order to get some more time?
Mayor Hobbs - I think in terms of what you are trying to say, most
of the other property owners here are familiar with
the project. They are aware of what's going on so
I don't think there will be too many questions between
now and the 3rd from anyone except yourself. I
think the Council appreciates that you have a large
assessment but you should have time to discuss it
and look it over. I am saying on the third if you
felt and the city staff felt these discussions had
progressed to a point where either you were satisfied
with what you had seen in terms of how you were going
to react from that point, we could possibly make a
decision. If you felt that another week or two could
tie that down for you, the Council could table it
to the 17th. If you felt on the 3rd that another
month or two were needed, I am not saying that they
would delay the decision that long.
I would imagine, from your comments, that you will
be having discussions with the staff between now
and the third.
Martin Ward - I expect to.
Mayor Hobbs - It will be an agenda item on the 3rd and I would
anticipate that you will be here.
Martin Ward - Is there anything that I have to do between now
and the 3rd in order to get the time that you
suggest I might possibly get to the 17th.
Mayor Hobbs - I think that would strictly depend on what has
happened between now and the 3rd. My answer is,
we are not going to put off the decision indefinitely.
I think that the Council woulð lean very definitely
towards tabling it to the 17th if all the parties
considered felt that that would be the difference
between having a firm understanding of the project
or not having a firm understanding of the project.
Maybe we are presupposing that the three weeks
isn't enough time. Maybe that is enough time.
Don Ashworth - I am sure that the engineer will make available
anything that you would like. 'I don't know if you
need more than three weeks but at least I am sure
from our standpoint Bill stands ready to meet with
you during this next three week period.
Victor Schmieg - We have a home setting in the right-of-way.
Don Wisniewski - We have talked with the city and yourself about
three different alignments that would best serve
the connection to TH 5 and I guess the intersection
with TH 5 has a lotto play where that road goes
because of the northerly route which goes into
Excelsior. We feel the route that goes through
the yard is the most westerly route and that would
provide close to a 90 degree intersection, will
provide ample spacing from that intersection to
the highway bridge over the railroad tracks and
also gives us available space for a future separated
intersection which was indicated earlier. I guess
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Council Meeting March 14, 1978
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it is our feeling that probably would be the most
desirable when we considered all three. The other
routes were east of there and they intersected TH 5
at a more oblique angle. We do realize that it does
go through your property.
Ed Dunn - Would it not be correct that the value of the house would be
taken into consideration in any aware for the taking.
Don Wisniewski - I would assume that that's true. That is going to be
approximately 150 foot right-of-way which would
accommodate two or four lanes, divided roadway.
Today we are proposing to put in two of those lanes
but we would want to purchase the right-of-way for the
future four lane facility.
Mayor Hobbs - Bill, does the highway right-of-way acquisition figure
that you have reflect anything in terms of the possible
condemnation of homestead?
Bill Brezinsky - Yes.
Victor Schmieg - I was never really informed of when it would be built,
are they going east of the house or right where the
house sits or when is it going to happen.
Don Wisniewski - As far as when it's going to happen, we have got it
scheduled in our five year capital improvement program.
Th~ roadway construction and the bridge, railroad over
highway, would take place in 1979. We have had two
surveys out there. This particular more desirable
route has been surveyed in the field and likewise
the one that went furtherest to the east was surveyed
in the field. Preliminary to this hearing we did
make a decision that that would be the desirable route
which would appear in the feasibility report.
Mayor Hobbs - Has the county had or are you obligated to have a public
hearing on this proposed state aid road?
Don Wisniewski - No, we are not.
Victor Schmieg - I feel if we· lose the home the rest of the buildings
don't mean anything either. I think it will take the
garage, both garages.
Don Wisniewski - The house will probably be the one that would be in
jeopardy with the first two lanes and I guess we
haven't done any ground surveys to know what other
buildings or trees would be affected. All we have
done is establish a centerline.
Victor Schmieg - Would that be the centerline where a few of those
s take's are?
Don Wisniewski - Yes. That would be the centerline of the 150 foot
right-of-way. .
Councilman Geving - Where is that centerline right now?
Victor Schmieg - Right by the house. One stake is right by the
kitchen window.
Mayor Hobbs - I didn't realize it was going right through the house.
Victor Schmieg - Seventy-five feet on this side and seventy-five feet
on that side that takes barn, hen house, and hog
house, and the garage, and machine shed and everything.
Mayor Hobbs - I am glad you brought it up. I don't think the Council
was aware of it.
Councilman Waritz - I am still a little unclear as to how we get
involved in the right-of-way for a county road.
Don Ashworth - The county's five-year program included making various
Council Meeting March 14, 1978
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improvements in this particular section of road. To
complete that they have only programmed in the
cost of the actual improvement itself. They have
assumed being able to acquire property either through I
a public project such as this or through private
donation. They have received a donation of the land
for all the properties south of the project area.
If that road is to be completed it would either have
to occur through a project such as this or through
a donation of that property.
Don Wisniewski - The most easterly alignment,which is one of the
three alternates that was considered, would still
affect the outstructures of that yard. It would
affect the barn and encroach to the west but it
would not take the house. We are looking at the
best service, the best intersection with TH 5
looking down the road aways, what that intersection
would look like and how it would serve the properties
both to the south and a connection north to 17
and by positioning it as close to 90 degrees as
possible and allowing enough spacing to the
railroad bridge so that sometime a separation
structure could eventually be put in there, it
appears that that would be the best alignment.
Bill Brezinsky - The road can't be put in until the right-of-way is
acquired from Mr. Schmieg so he will have quite
a bit of input into the location.
Mayor Hobbs - Was Don correct in stating that the right-of-way I
acquisitions have been completed up to this point?
Don Wisniewski - No. There have been some tentative discussions
up to this point regarding dedication of the
right-of-way south of here but nothing has been
solidified yet.
Don Ashworth - Is it not true though that those have been offers
of donation up to this point?
Don Wisniewski - Yes.
Bill Brezinsky - Another thing relative to your question regarding
the acquisition of this right-of-way as far as
this project, normally there is some city
participation in the cost of putting in these
county state aid roads normally part of the cost
is assessed back similar to what we are talking
about on the municipal state aid 101, assessing
back the cost of a locally designed street or a
residential street. To go forward with this
project it is necessary to have their right-of-
way essentially dedicated or paid for and assessed
back to the people.
Don Wisniewski - The county's policy regarding new construction or
any kind of modernization of an existing county
road within a municipality talks about 100%
construction costs paid by the county and items I
such as the right-of-way is a negotiable item
between the municipality and the county but it's
been our past history with all of the municipalities
including Chaska and New Germany and Mayer and
Carver County that those items have been picked
up by the city.
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Robert MacDonald - I would like to make a part of the record that
Animal Fair needs a early commitment to meet
construction deadlines for an October 1st occupancy.
Thank you.
Councilman Geving moved to close the public hearing. Motion seconded
by Councilman Waritz. The following voted in favor: Mayor Hobbs,
Councilmen Geving and Waritz. No negative votes. Hearing closed at
9:30 p.m.
Don Ashworth
City Manager