1978 07 24
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SPECIAL CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL MEETING JULY 24, 1978
Mayor Hobbs called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. with the following members
present: Councilmen Pearson, Neveaux, Geving, and Waritz.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Councilman Pearson moved to approve the agenda as presented with
the addition of discussion on the City Sign. Motion seconded by Councilman Neveaux.
The following voted in favor: Mayor Hobbs, Councilmen Pearson, Neveaux, Geving, and
Waritz. No negative votes. Motion carried.
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CONTINUATION OF 'PUBLIC HEARING
FRONTAGE ROAD AND SIGNALIZATION, DAKOTA AND HIGHWAY 5
This hearing was continued from July 17th to receive written comments from persons
involved in the proposed project. Letters were received from the following and are
on file in the office of the City Clerk.
Paul Strand, MTS Systems Corporation
Robert H. Mason, Chanhassen Holding Company
Gabbert & Beck, Warren Beck
Chanhassen Estates Residents Association, Richard W. Connell, President
The Council discussed methods of assessing the cost of signalization, possibly
assessing properties along the north and south frontage roads.
Councilman Pearson moved to close the publ i chearing. Moti on seconded by Councilman
Waritz. The following voted in favor: Mayor Hobbs, Councilmen Pearson, Neveaux,
Waritz, and Geving. No negative votes. Motion carried. Hearing closed at 7:50 p.m.
FRONTAGE ROAD AND SIGNALIZATION, DAKOTA AND HIGHWAY 5:
RESOLUTION #78~34: Councîlman Pearson moved the adoption of a resolution authorizing
the signalization of Highway 5 at Dakota Avenue and widening Dakota Avenue and direct
the Engineer to prepare plans and specifications and the City Attorney's office to
acquire such easements as are necessary for road right-of-way, sewer, and water.
Resolution seconded by Councilman Geving. The following voted in favor: Mayor Hobbs,
Councilmen Pearson, Neveaux, Geving, and Waritz. No negative votes. Motion carried.
RESOLUTION #78-35: Councilman Waritz moved the adoption of a resolution authorizing
the construction of a frontage road, watermain, and storm sewer south of Highway 5
and direct the Engineer to prepare plans and specifications and the City Attorney's
office to acquire such easements as are necessary. Resolution seconded by Councilman
Pearson. The following voted in favor: Mayor Hobbs, Councilmen Pearson, Neveaux,
Geving, and Waritz. No negative votes. Motion carried.
RESOLUTION #78-36: Councilman Pearson moved the adoption of a resolution authorizing
the construction of a frontage road, sanitary sewer, watermain, and storm sewer north
of Highway 5 as shown in the Engineer's revised feasibility study as presented in the
tabulation boards dated July 17, 1978, and referred to as Alternate 2 in a: total
amount of $203,998.00 and direct the Engineer to prepare plans and specifications and
the City Attorney1s office to acquire such easements as are necessary for road
right-of-way, sanitary sewer, water, and storm sewer. Resolution seconded by
Councilman Neveaux. The following voted in favor: Mayor Hobbs, Councilmen Pearson,
Neveaux, Waritz, and Geving. No negative votes. Motion carried.
Council Meeting July 24, 1978
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PUBLI C HEARING
SOUTH LOTUS LAKE DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENT PROJECT
Mayor Hobbs called the hearing to order at 8:00 p.m. Approximately 70 interested I
persons were present. The project wasdillided into. two assessment areas:
1. Those areas contributing waters to the Hughes drainage swale off Frontier
Trail, to the Lot 12 property off Frontier Trail and to the drainage pond
constructed as a part of the Erie, Chan View, and West 77th Street Improvement
Project 77-3; and
2. Those properties contributing waters to the vJestern Hi lls pond.
The project includes:
a. Channel improvement of the Lot 12 drainageway;
b. Construction of a storm sewer through the Hughes drainageway;
c. Construction of a sedimentation pond;
d. Construction of an outlet control structure for the Western Hills Pond.
A re a I.
Bill Brezinsky -
The recommended solution to eliminate the erosion that is taking
place in the Lot 12 area would be the construction of a retention
pond to hold the water and retain it until the peak run off through
Lot 12 had already occurred then this would slowly release this
and the run off from the remainder of the area would have already
entered the lake. The second thing that we are recommending is
improvement of the Lot 12 ditch itself. We are recommending a
general widening and straightening of the channel with ripr~p
and filter blanket. The third part of the Lot 12 improvement
would be the removal of the delta in the lake.
The other ditch to the north on the Hughes property is very
steep. We can't improve it the way the Lot 12 is because of
the steepness. There is no rock that would hold. For that
reason we are recommending the installation of a catch basin
and storm sewer. This storm sewer would be a corrigated metal
pipe and would outlet into a surge basin.
The cost of these improvements we are suggesting that they be
assessed aqainst the Area I. Area I drains to these two creeks.
The total èstimated cost of these improvements is' $53,834.00.
For the work that we are suggesting we received a watershed district
grant of $3,300.00 and a soil conservation service grant of
$19,300. Subtracting these two grants from the total cost leaves
a remaining cost of $31,234.00. This amount would be assessed
against the benefitted area.
The people here that were on Erie Avenue and Chan View project
will note that this pond was already in that project. Including
it in this project isn1t going to mean you are going to be assessed
again. The cost actually is going to be less to you because
it's included with these other projects, because it has to be
with these others in order to receive grant money for it. The
actual cost you will be assessed less for this work that you
would have on the other project.
Area II.
Area II is a creek that outlets near Sunrise Hills Beach. The
erosion in this is not as bad simply because this area is
undeveloped for the most part. Once this area does develop
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Council Meeting July 24, 1978
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and unless something is done to keep the run off or slow it you
would have a similar problem as you have on the other two. To do this
we are suggesting we make use of the existing pond in Western Hills
Park as a storm sewer retention area so that when you have a large
rain the run off from this area will flow into the pond and will be
held there and slowly release it into the drainageway. \~e would
build a dam. This would go across the drainageway about 50 feet
from the pond. The purpose of this is to store the water and slowly
release it. It woul d release it from the pond with four 6 inch openings.
This would reduce the present flow to about 1/3 of what it is.
The total estimated cost is $5~929.00. The soil conservation grant
received for this work is $2,964.00 leaving a total assessable cost
of $2,965.00.
Mark Walton, 413 Cimarron Circle - I would like to know how increased development
increases run off.
Bill Brezinsky - The more hard surface you have the less water is absorbed into the
ground. You have more run off, less evaporation. Residential
development will almost double the amount of run off over a field
or agricultural land.
Mark Walton - Don't the roads and things like that that contribute to the run off
benefit the entire community?
Bill Brezinsky - Yes, the roads do.
Mark Walton - As well as the school and all that. Why not assess the whole village?
Mayor Hobbs - I think the feeling is that in a residential neighborhood the roads are
a primary benefit to thepeopl e that 1 i ve there. Now, dependi ng on
the community you are in, Chanhassen in the past has chosen to assess
back all public improvements against benefitted areas.
Fritz Coulter, 7616 Frontier Trail - In Lot 12, Auditor's Subdivision #2, what is
the reason that all this erosion occurred. There was never any eroston
until they started to build up in the area. Why did it occur all of
a sudden?
Bill Brezinsky - I think you answered your question as it has built up there has been
more run off through Lot 12 and that's why you have the problem.
Fritz Coulter - Wasn't a storm sewer built that was dumped into Lot 12?
Bill Brezinsky - Yes. The storm sewer lines do outlet into Lot 12. Without that
there would be less erosion. I think you have to go back ~be~the
project was originally considered. It was discussed extension of a
pi pe all the way to the 1 ake and it was known that there woul d be
some erosion in Lot 12.
Fritz Coulter - That retention pond was built and since the day it was built it hasn't
held one drop of water mainly because all the earth around the area
that is supposed to hold the water seems to have washed away. What
guarantee are we going to have that if we build this thing up again
next year that's it's going to hold water this time?
Bill Brezinsky - I don't believe it has been wiped out but it never was completed.
It never was sodded which it will be.
Paul Rojina, 220 West 77th Street, I asked the Engineer if that project down there was
finished. He said yes. Now he is stating it is not finished. What
do you intend to spend it on now? It's the people's money here that is
doing these stupid things. There has to be something done right once.
Mayor Hobbs - The City Council has neveracceþted this project as being completed. I
don't know what kind of conversation transpired between you and the
Engineer,the gentlemen sitting up here have never accepted that project
as being completed. We have never been told that project is completed.
Council Meeting July 24, 1978
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Lyle Guhl, 511 Del Rio Drive - I have water standing in my ba,ckyard a,lmost all
tfle time. My questi:on is, what benefit will I receive from this project?
Will it help me in any way? I
Bill Brezinsky - As far as the low area in his backyard, no, this particular
project won't drain it. We real i ze that there are other small
individual drainage problems within these areas and some of them
have been brought to the attention of the city and we are working
on a solution to them. There may be others that we don't know
about. I think most of these problems are going to fall into
the maintenance part of the existing storm sewer system. Others,
like yours is a different situation. It will take some grading
of your lot.
Bill Ryan, 512 Laredo Lane - With regard to this type of construction on the
drainage ditches, it is a relative cheap type of construction but it
is a high maintenance type and also in the areas up around the pond
you are going to have to have a fairly substantial overflow area, what
is the provision for maintenance in these areas?
Bill Brezinsky - The City would be maintaining these as a part of their storm sewer
system. In order to get the grants, the soil conservation service,
the City has to sign a maintenance agreement.Bas,idally what that is,
the people from the soil conservation service will meet with the
City Maintenance people once a year and look at these projects
and determine if there has to be any maintenance done. The Lot 12
drainageway as it is designed, it is designed according to the
soil conservation service criterial should be maintenance free.
Bill Ryan - The maintenance of these areas will come out of the general city funds. I
Bill Brezinsky - That's correct.
Gene Coulter, 7550 Great Plains Blvd. - I quit as mayor six years ago for one
reason, to try to straighten out Lot 12. You remember when that
sewer was built before, the area wasn~t that big. Now all of a
sudden the area has grown. I sympathize with those people up there.
They have to trust somebody and they trust the Engineer. I assume
he is right because he has got the DNR looking over his shoulder.
I one thing that does amaze me is on Area I and Area II, why that
wasn't made one deal. Is it because a large area of Area II is
maybe controlled by one small group of developers?
Bill Brezinsky - We felt that Area I has two creeks that have similar problems.
We are talking about a similar solution to a similar problem.
In the ponding area the problem hasn't progressed to the point
where you can compare it. The Council could combine those two
areas when it comes to assessment.
Myra Hensley, 504 Del Rio Drive - As I understand it there is no public access to
Lotus Lake. I object highly to being assessed and not being allowed
to use the lake. I have no objection to the project being done but
from what I have seen tax money has been wasted so terribly in this
town, in this state. I don't know of anyone sitting here that came
because they were excited about this property and as far as I am
concerned illegally assessed because we were not notified of it.
There has been no election for it. I
Mayor Hobbs - First of all ,you are not being assessed tonight, this is a public
hearing to determine whether or not we are going to authorize this
project. It has not been authorized. If the City Council decides
to authorize the project, when it's completed there will be another
assessment hearing. Your notification was a letter that you got
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that we were going to have the hearing to discuss it. So far it hasn't
cost you anything.
Clark Horn, 7608 Erie - Since the run off is really contributed to be streets and
houses, why is it proposed to assess on a land square footage basis rather
than a residence basis?
Bill Brezinsky - The assessment on an area basis is done so that you pay in propostion
to the water that runs off. A person with twice as much property
will have twice as much run off.
Don Schmieg, 7703 Erie - I have a little problem with the timing on this thing. It was
six years in the making, how come we waited until Chan View,<Erie,and
West 77th Street have already got an assessment that you wouldn't believe
because of the way the road was built. Where is the guarantee that
the dam will work this time? If you put rock down on the bottom and
dirt washes in, eventually the rocks are going to get full of dirt. Once
they are full of dirt where is it going to run beside into the lake?
Mayor Hobbs - It is a larger project. Your square footage assessment for storm sewer
is going to be less than if your area only had it done.
Don Schmieg - Nobody can guarantee us that this is going to work when we are done.
Mayor Hobbs - All we have are the DNR, the Engineer, the people that have put their
heads together on' it, say itls going to work.
Bill Brezinsky - We are going to prevent that erosion and most of the sedimentation.
The sedimentation pondwas"never completed and until it is completed
it's the responsibility of the contractor we have on that project
right now to complete it. Once that's done then that will work.
In Lot 12 there were some things that were done there, some dams
that were built and they were done as a part of a sanitary sewer
project and it was recognized that these were a temporary solution to
that problem. They were to slow down the sedimentation as much as
possi bl e without going into a storm sewer project. In order to
expend a large amount of money you have to go through a public hearing
as we are right now.
We are using the criteria of the soil conservation.servirie and the
watershed district.· All the computations have been sent to them
and rechecked and have been approved. There is not one engineer
that has worked on this there are several and we are using the best
available information to design these facilities.
Bill Ryan - What alternatives did you consider? Did you look at an open concrete
channel?
Bill Brezinsky - We are assured that the design that we are using will withstand the
largest storm you will have down there. We considered a pipe down
to the lake which is several times more expensive and would have caused
a lot of erosion on the lakeshore unless you put special precautions
down there to dissipate~theflow. A similar thing would happen if
you had a asphalt swale or concrete swale or smooth bottom channel
it would get down to the lake faster and would have erosion. We
gave those numbers to the City Council. One of the main reasons we
are doing it (Lot 12) that way is the recommendation from the soil
conservation service in fact if we put in a pipe we would not have
gotten any funding at all. This is based on their recommendation.
Charlie Coffee, 7474 Saratoga Drive - Will the dam raise the constant water level of
the pond?
Bill Brezinsky - The level of the pond will be what it is now. The holes will be at
the normal elevation of the pond. If the water goes above that, that
will drain out.
Council Meeting July 24,1978
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Ted deLancey 7505 Frontier Trail - This is the first time that I have been a part
, 'of an assessment of where there has been funds from the fed~ral ,
government. I would like to congratulate the.people that dld thlS. I
My concern is, are the facts that we are gettlng correct, because
they weren1t several years ago when Gene Coulter was Mayor. .1 do
tflink tflat I h.ave to sa,y that you have to rely ~n them sometlme.
Bi'll, I want to publicall~ say ~hat y?ur dams,dld hold on Lot 12
in two 100 year storms thlS sprlng WhlCh I sald they never would.
I apologize to you for that. I don't want it because it's going
to cost me a bundle but I do think that in all honesty !hat.th~y
have to be commended for qetting some funds and I do thlnk lt lS
probably the solution as ï have seen develop over the last 15 years.
Bruce Gamlin - I don't mind spending the money if Ilget somethi~g back for it.
Here is one case where I guess I don t see anythlng personally
coming back otherwise I wouldn1t be here.
Councilman Neveaux moved to continue the public hearing until August 14, 1978,
at 7:30 p.m. to give the Engineer time to explor~ the possibilities o~ pipe or.a
smooth surface swale in light of a long range malntenance type operatlon. Motlon
seconded by Councilman Geving. The following voted in fav?r: Mayor Hobbs~
Councilmen Pearson, Neveaux, Geving, and Waritz. No negatlve votes. Hearlng
continued at 10:00 p.m.
HOUSE MOVING PERMIT, ROMAN SINNEN, 535 LAKOTA LANE: Residents along Lakota Lane
have petitioned the Council to reconsider their decision to allow Mr. Sinnen to
move in three modular units to be combined into one single family home.
Councilman Geving moved to table this matter until August 7, 1978, to give the I
building inspector time to review this. Motion seconded by Councilman Pearson.
The following voted in favor: Mayor Hobbs, Councilmen Pearson, Neveaux, Waritz,
and Geving. No negative votes. Motion carried.
ERIE AVENUE STREET IMPROVEMENT: Mr. and Mrs. Clark Horn were present requesting
that the concrete curb be extended the full length of their property.
Councilman Gevinq moved to extend the concrete curb north to the north end of
the Clark Horn property. Motion seconded by Councilman Neveaux. The following
voted in favor: Mayor Hobbs, Councilmen Pearson, Geving, Neveaux, and Waritz.
No negative votes. Motion carried.
INTERVIEW FISCAL AGENTS - 1978: The Council conducted interviews with fiscal
agents from the firms of Springsted, Inc. and Ehlers and Associates.
Councilman Pearson moved to table the remainder of the agenda to a special Council
meeting July 31, 1978. Motion seconded by Counci lman Neveaux. The following
voted in favor: Mayor Hobbs, Councilmen Neveaux, Pearson, Geving, and Waritz.
No negative votes. Motion carried.
Don Ashworth
Ci ty Manager
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