1977 03 07
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REGULAR CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL MEETING MARCH 7, 1977
Acting Mayor Neveaux called
following members present:
and Councilman Pearson were
Pledge to the Flag.
the meeting to order at 7:45 p.m. with the
Councilmen Geving and Waritz. Mayor Hobbs
absent. The meeting was opened with the
APPROVAL OF AGENDA: A motion was made by Councilman Geving and seconded
by Councilman Waritz to approve the agenda as presented. The following
voted in favor: Acting Mayor Neveaux, Councilmen Geving and Waritz.
No negative votes. Motion carried.
MINUTES: Amend APPROVAL OF AGENDA in the February 28, 1977, Council
minutes by deleting Councilman Neveaux from the vote on the motion. Add
the following sentence after the APPROVAL OF AGENDA motion: Councilman
Neveaux came at 7:35 p.m.
A motion was made by Councilman Waritz and seconded by Councilman Geving
to approve the February 28, 1977, Council minutes as amended. The
following voted in favor: Acting Mayor Neveaux, Councilmen Geving and
Waritz. No negative votes. Motion carried.
1977 LIQUOR LICENSE FEES - ORDINANCE AMENDMENT: Mr. and Mrs. Tom Krueger
were present. The Council deleted the following sentence in Section 6,
Subdivision 1 (a) of the proposed ordinance: Dancing by patrons may be
incidental to the restaurant operation.
Councilman Waritz moved the adoption of Ordinance 2E, an Ordinance
Amending Section 6 of the Chanhassen Intoxicating Liquor Ordinance as
Amended. Motion seconded by Councilman Geving. The following voted
in favor: Acting Mayor Neveaux, Councilmen Geving and Waritz. No
negative votes. Motion carried.
CHANHASSEN CHATTERERS: At the last Council meeting the Council accepted
a check in the amount of $145.60 from Rose Peitz, President of the
Chanhassen Chatterers. At that time the Council had requested this be
an agenda item and pictures were taken.
PARK APPARATUS DONATION - CHANHASSEN LIONS CLUB: Gary O'Neill and
Phil Aldritt from the Lions Club were present to explain the proposal.
The Park and Recreation Commission has reviewed the tot lot project
recommended approval. A 150' x 200' tot lot is to be located just north
of the baseball diamonds at Lake Ann Park and consist of swings, slide,
climbing tower, fireman's pole, post maze, see saw, benches for the
parents, activities bulletin board, shrubbery, game tables, and waste
receptacles. The project will be completed over three summers beginning
in 1977.
Councilman Geving moved to approve the concept and
City Staff and the Park and Recreation Commission.
Councilman Waritz. The following voted in favor:
Councilmen Geving and Waritz. No negative votes.
coordinate plans with
.l'1otion seconded by
Acting Mayor Neveaux,
Motion carried.
LAKE RILEY UTILITY IMPROVEMENT REQUEST: Several residents from Shore
Acres and Bandimere Heights were present. A petition for utility
expansion to the Lake Riley area \vas received in September 1976 and
forwarded to the Planning Commission for review and comment. Sewer
extension to the area is feasible but the engineer will need instructions
as to whether the feasibility report should include Bandimere Heights.
City Council Meeting March 7, 1977
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The Planning Commission would not recommend expansion o~ services
beyond the need area. Water expansion is not recommended because
this would require long extensions through undeveloped lands.
Certain road alignment problems could be corrected through I
construction of the project. City Staff does not recommend extension
of sewer or road improvements unless the project could be 100%
assessed at time of completion; and, the Council sincerely believes
that if the feasibility study is positive, the Council would order
the project.
The City Engineer stated that the Council may want to consider the
possibility of placing the water pipes in the subdivision so that
the road could be restored to 7 ton standards rather than digging
up the road at a later time.
The initial petition was not circulated in Bandimere Heights.
Ron Setter, Bandimere Heights - I guess we were a little surprised
that the petition was not brought up that far. We live
100 feet away. This week was the first time some of us
knew about it. In my case I haven't made a decision
yet if I want sewer or not.
Bob McCart, Bandimere Heights - We just built a home on Kiowa Trail
and invested a considerable amount of money in a well and
septic system so I have all kinds of interest in whether
we are going to go into sewer and water.
Pat Swenson, Shore Acres - I have contacted as many people as I I
was able to and almost everyone I talked to is having
problems with their sewer. We actually could have
gotten more people than 16 on that original petition
but we stopped at that and that seemed to satisfy
the administrative as far going ahead with it.
We didn't really turn our backs on Bandimere Heights.
It was that Kiowa is a turn around and there is a
solely owned piece of property that runs between Kiowa
and Lake Riley. I guess it just never occurred to
me to go beyond that.
Ron Setter - I assume the feasibility study would tell where it
goes, whether the lake side or the road, because right
now the road in Bandimere Heights is not paved, and if
it goes in the road I assume paving is part of what
we will end up with. Hopefully. The other thing that
made me concerned is 6,000 feet away is our water and if
I am putting in sewer I would like to have the water at
the same time. I am fortunate my sewer and water are
not giving me any problems but I think if we are looking
at sewer we should also look at the whole works.
Bill Brezinsky - You can put the pipe in now at the same time as
the sewer only you wouldn't have a connection to I
a water source.
Councilman Geving - I don't think I have enough information. I would
like the City Attorney's comments and recommendations.
Possibly go for an informational hearing at some
future date to let all the people involved in the
area be aware.
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City Council Meeting March 7, 1977
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Councilman Waritz moved to table action until March 21 at which time
this will be an agenda item. In the meantime notices will be mailed
to all residents of Shore Acres and Bandimere Heights that this will
be discussed on March 21. The Council will accept letters and/or
petitions at that time and would like public imput before a decision
is made on a feasibility study. Motion seconded by Councilman Geving.
The following voted in favor: Acting Mayor Neveaux, Councilmen Geving
and Waritz. No negative votes. Motion carried.
TROLLS-GLEN - WEST 77th STREET EXTENSION: ~1rs. Kit Peterjohn was
present. The City has received a request from Mrs. Peterjohn to
extend West 77th Street between Trolls-Glen First Addition and County
Road 15. The extension would allow Mrs. Peterjohn to complete final
platting of the second addition. There will need to be a joint powers
agreement between Chanhassen and Victoria for putting the road through.
Mrs. Peterjohn is requesting that the City extend the street and ~ssess
the property. The City Manager recommended the Council not endorce
the use of city funds for private development as the process is more
expensive to the developer.
Mrs. Peterjohn also requested an amendment to the existing development
contract to delay the paving in Trolls-Glen First Addition. At this
Council meeting Mrs. Peterjohn withdrew this request.
Councilman Geving - I would be a little bit fearful of a precedent
that we may be initiating if we were to approve
the request using city bonding and assessment
procedure. I do know that there are other
developers who are right now in the process of
doing this very same thing. I would have to
stay with the staff recommendations not to
approve of this request.
Councilman Waritz - I think the area needs an outlet. I would hope
the Peterjohns could obtain some type of interim
private financing. I think they are better off
trying to go that route. Even if we have set
some precedent in the past there is a saturation
point for the city's bonding authority. I would
prefer not to go the city route. Everyone says
the private sector is much more efficient and
I guess I would have to agree with them.
Acting Mayor Neveaux - I would have to agree with the City Manager's
comments in regard to the city being pretty
well out on a limb with our bonding and
assessments authorities. Certainly until such
time as we get the report from M. J. Long on
our existing assessment experience I would be
very hesitant to add additional liability to the
city at this time. I don't see a real hardship
here. I certainly agree that we should extend
West 77th to County Road 15. We talked about it
initially when the first addition was approved
that . it should proceed as rapidly as possible
but I guess we have gotten the city into a very
tight situation with money at the present time
and I just can't see taking ¡;ome additional risks.
City Council Meeting March 7, 1977
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I think that would be a step beyond which
we should not go.
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The Council took no action.
1977 DISEASED TREE PROGRAM: The City Manager explained the present
program and recommended the Council wait to see what action is taken
by the Legislature.
A motion was made by Councilman Geving and seconded by Councilman
Waritz to table action on the 1977 Diseased Tree Program until such
time as the Council receives imput from local sources or from the
state. The following voted in favor: Acting Mayor Neveaux,
Councilmen Geving and Waritz. No negative votes. Motion carried.
PARK ACQUISITION AND DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE - FIRST READING: The
proposed ordinance is geared to a neighborhood park philosophy. It
establishes a park demand and charge methodology. For each 100 persons
of projected population within each neighborhood the city would require
one acre of park land. The developer must show that the land that he
has or wishes DO donate meets into the overall neighborhood park
plan for the city. Charges vary from $317.00 per single family
dwelling to $85.00 for a one bedroom efficiency apartment.
Russell Larson, City Attorney - We do have some concerns about
the ordinance's defensibility under the existing
Statute which authorizes this type of ordinance. I
We would like to further explore that situation
because I can anticipate that this ordinance may
come under very severe scrutiny by the public or
developers. We would ask leave of the Council to
take an indepth look at this thing. We have done
some of that work. I am in sympathy with the
concept.
Joe Betz, Chairman of the Park and Recreation Commission, was present.
Ed Dunn, Lake Susan Hills - I would like to make a few comments.
Obviously an adjustment in your park policy is in order.
The $40.00 figure I think has no current reality. In the
communities we have been working in, there are currently
three other than Chanhassen, we have a park policy in each
case. The 'amount of land required to be donated, and again
there is a stipulation that it be acceptable to the park
people, ranges from five to twelve percent in the amount
of land. I can't relate it directly, it looks like this
is perhaps something more than 15% the amount of land if
you figure it on a basis of so many --- You have to start
with what is the density and then if it takes 9.6 acres.
As regard the alternative, the dollar charge, if you figure
your density at the low density range which is on the order
of three lots per acre, that would be about $900 per acre.
We have quantities of single family dwelling land today
that is available for sale that we would sell for $4,000,
even if that were $5,000, then it's still 20% of the value.
I can appreciate that you have come at this in the direction
of figuring the cost to develop a park. I just ask for
careful evaluation of dollar amounts relative to market
values.
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City Council Meeting March 7, 1977
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Joe Betz - I think it can be argued any way that you want in terms of
whether the particular formula items are valid or not valid.
I think it would behoove anybody that wants to go further
to try and get as much technical information as you can on
what's typical park costs to be developed in a particular
area with the costs as they are today and as they will be in
the next five to ten years. I think if you look at the
resolution, it is simply a model for trying to equitably
bring in some money to the city so the city can start to do
something with the land and develop a park system that's
worth having. I think the resolution itself is viable.
As far as the individual items in terms of whether a charge
should be $275, $150, or whatever, that's certainly open to
you to obtain more data from staff, from the Park and
Recreation Commission to come up with a number that you feel
confident about. If the numbers that are currently in this
are not valid, that's fine, but if the structure of the
resolution seems fair to you then I think we are looking
for someone to say, let's get more detailed information
as to what it would cost to put a ballfield and a swing set
in these six parks. I think people will end up being very
surprised at what the costs really do turn out to be.
Acting Mayor Neveaux - I think that this is something that we should
think about very strongly and I certainly
wouldn't want to make a decision this evening
with only three councilmen present. I personally
believe that something has to be done with the
existing Park Ordinance. It is not even doing
in todays market what it was intended to do in
1967 to just acquire the land. We haven't had
any funds avåilable in our park budgets for
development of park land. We have been playing
catch up for years. If we are going to get
started on a good comprehensive park development
plan we have got to get some money to do it.
I agree personally, with this concept of this
kind of approach. I have the same problem with
the figures that Dale and Nick and Ed do, that
they need some shaking down and some looking at
from people such as the developers that.know
development costs better than even some of our
staff do. I think we can get some imput from
some other people within the city and come up
with some more realistic figures. Conceptually
I agree with the structure of the proposed
ordinance and the task to which it's going to be
put.
Tom Klingelhutz, Hansen and Klingelhutz - My feeling is, it's kind of
a big thing. It's one-fifth of the value of our land.
I think the farmer out here should know about it
because it's going to affect the price of his property.
I think there should be some kind of a hearing or
something so that. these people know about it. I think
it's important. It's 20% of our raw property which
is a dirty pile of money. I think that the Park
Ordinance has got to be changed. $40.00 is not doing
anything. TO donate land and not have something done
City Council Meeting March 7, 1977
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with it is useless. If you are going to give ten
acres or fifteen acres of land to the city something
should be done with it but this is a lot of money.
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Councilman Waritz - I like the concept but maybe what we are trying
to put on it might be a little ambituous.
Councilman Geving - I still am very much in favor of the community
park and I'll stay with that opinion. I would
like to put all our cash in that type of
development at Lake Ann.
Councilman Waritz - I like the concept. I think particularly for
the younger kids so they don't have to cross any
major streets.
Acting Mayor Neveaux - Maybe we have enough figures to work with
from our proposal here. The difference between
a $59,000 park and $115,000 park is pretty
substantial. Maybe we don't need a lighted
hockey rink at each and everyone of those
parks. Why don't we get in a little more
conservatively to begin with and see if the
concept goes. After we have some experience
with it we can raise our sights.
Councilman Geving - I tend to think that all the figures I see I
before me are pretty much inflated. I think we
can beat that by quite a bit. I like the
philosophy of what you are trying to propose
here. I just think your numbers are out of
whack.
Councilman Waritz - I think the formula idea is good. If they could
build in the formula so maybe it would come out'to
about half of what, say $160 to $200 per lot.
A motion was made by Councilman Geving and seconded by Councilman
Waritz to table this until March 21 and direct staff to re-analyze
this whole application in concert with several of the developers
along with the Park and Recreation Commission and present this again
on March 21. The following voted in favor: Acting Mayor Neveaux,
Councilmen Geving and Waritz. No negative votes. Motion carried.
COW1UNITY FACILITIES INTERIM STUDY CO~ITTEE: Councilman Waritz
stated that st. Hubert's would like some feedback from the Council
on some kind of commitment on utilization of St. Hubert's Church.
Fr. Armand does not want to heat the building for another winter.
The building has to be heated or structural damage will occur.
The City cannot make a commitment at this time.
PROPOSED LEGISLATION - MORITORIUM ON TAXING OF ALL HOME IMPROVEMENTS:
The City Manager recommended that the city not support this bill
because it would cripple the city's ability to equalize the inequities
of the property tax.
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City Council Meeting March 7, 1977
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Councilman Geving moved that the City of Chanhassen oppose S.F. 103,
proposed legislation, Moritorium on Taxing of all Home Improvements,
because of the potential of unegual assessment and instruct staff to
prepare a memorandum to Senator Benedict with copies to Senator Schmitz
and Representative McDonald. Motion seconded by Councilman Waritz.
The following voted in favor: Acting Mayor Neveaux, Councilmen Geving
and Waritz. No negative votes. Motion carried.
ANNUAL LEAGUE CONFERENCE: Council members were reminded to make
their reservations if they are planning to attend.
C. C. LUDWIG AWARD: Councilman Geving moved to place in nomination
former mayor Al Klingelhutz for the C. C. Ludwig Award for Distinguished
Municipal Service. Motion seconded by Councilman Waritz. The
following voted in favor: Acting Mayor Neveaux, Councilmen Geving and
Waritz. No negative votes. Motion carried.
SPECIAL MEETING: A motion was made by Councilman Geving and seconded
by Councilman Waritz to hold a joint meeting with the Planning Commission
to discuss the Highway 5 detour and Upland Water Retention Proposal
on March 16, 1977, at 7:30 p.m. The following voted in favor: Acting
Mayor Neveaux, Councilmen Geving and Waritz. No negative votes. Motion
carried.
A motion was made by Councilman Geving and
to adjourn. The following voted in favor:
Councilmen Geving and Waritz. No negative
at 11:00 p.m.
seconded by Councilman Waritz
Acting Mayor Neveaux,
votes. Meeting adjourned
Don Ashworth
City Manager