1977 08 29
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SPECIAL CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL MEETING AUGUST 29, 1977
Mayor Hobbs called the meeting to order at 8:00 with the following members
present: Councilmen Pearson, Neveaux, Waritz, and Geving.
PUBLIC ASSESSMENT HEARING
CRESTVIEW DRIVE WATER IMPROVEMENT PROJECT 77-01
AUGUST 29, 1977, AT 8:00 P.M.
Mayor Hobbs called the hearing to order. The following interested
persons were present:
Arnon Reese, 2080 Crestview Drive
Ingvald Eidem, 2050 Crestview Drive
Edwin Mattson, 2020 Crestview Drive
Daniel Nikolai, 6570 Galpin Blvd.
Clarke Nicholson, 2051 Crestview Drive
Bill Brezinsky
Russell Larson
Craig Mertz
Bill Brezinsky explained the assessment procedure. Five homes will be
assessed for watermain. Bids taken on the project were higher than
the engineer's estimate. The contract was renegotiated with the
contractor and some of the work was done by the city. The costs to
dedicate the right-of-way were higher than expected. This right-of-way
cost will be divided among all property owners (five at this time and
five in the future. The entire street was broken up and had to be
replaced due to the unstable base of the existing street. The total
cost of the project is $9,043 or a total unit cost of $2,295.00. The
project will be assessed over eight years at 7 percent interest. Property
owners present were told they could pay the whole assessment or any
portion of it by October 6, 1977, at no interest. Persons questioning
their assessment can fill out review forms and submit them to the city
by Thursday, September 1.
Clarke Nicholson - You indicated there were charges for taking over
the road, was this ever paid before? We were all under the assumption
that the road did belong to the city.
Bill Brezinsky - The proposal to dedicate the road was presented to the
City Council in 1972 and we were asked to submit a report at that time.
We did but there was no further action taken on it.
Clarke Nicholson - Would we have incurred these charges in 1972?
Russell Larson - The city didn't accept it because the road right-of-way
at that time wasn't wide enough. I think the legal charges were nominal
as I recall.
Bill Brezinsky - The costs had to do with the writing of the legal
description of the road, locating the road exactly to find if it was
adequate. There was considerable engineering and staking required.
Clarke Nicholson - I would still like an answer to that question as far
as not only legal but engineering, etc., if in 1972 this had been put
in someones top drawer, would we be $80 ahead?
Russell Larson - If the city had accepted the road and if the right-of-
way at that time had been tendered of a width wide enough to satisfy the
then and now city requirements, that cost might probably have been taken
out of general funds. They would still have to stake the right-of-way.
They would still have to check the legal description as a part of this
project.
Clarke Nicholson - What is your definition of seal coating?
Public Hearing Project 77-01, August 29, 1977
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Bill Brezinsky - Sealcoated is first a tack coat then buckshot, and then
a final wearing course. It's actually a 1/4 inch mat. It's the
same as you had before.
Ed Mattson - Will the seal coating keep the gravel from washing out?
Bill Brezinsky - This will stop the washing. There will be a low
berm as their was before.
Ed Mattson - Will this be done this year?
Bill Brezinsky - Yes. The city is going to do the job and they will
be doing it when they are doing other work of a similar nature in
another part of the city.
Mayor Hobbs - We are just trying to put the road back the way it was.
This was not a street improvement project, it was a water project.
Dan Nikolai - will they continue the approaches up to the property line?
Bill Brezinsky - Yes, this will be done.
Dan Nikolai - Also, any sod repair, will the city do that?
Bill Brezinsky - The city will do everything within the right-of-way.
If it's outside the right-of-way, the contractor will do it for free.
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Arnon Reese - We had the hydrant up to my corner the first bid. The
second bid it was going to be down at Mr. Nicholson's and I would get
a one inch line, not they put the hydrant back at my corner. I was
wondering if that raised the price any.
Bill Brezinsky - That made very little difference actually. It was
a change that was requested by the contractor and the additional
pipe was paid for at the price of a service line.
Councilman Neveaux moved to close the Crestview Drive Assessment I
Hearing. Motion seconded by Councilman Geving. The following voted
in favor: Mayor Hobbs, Councilmen Pearson, Neveaux, Geving, and
Waritz. No negative votes. Hearing closed at 8:35 p.m.
PUBLIC ASSESSMENT HEARING
ERIE AVENUE SANITARY SEWER PROJECT 75-7
AUGUST 29, 1977, AT 8:35 P.M.
Mayor Hobbs called the hearing to order. Don and Judy Schmieg were
present.
Bill Brezinsky explained the assessment procedure. This project includes
four sewer units at a total cost of $7,153.00. The unit cost is
$1,788.25 spread over eight years at 7 percent interest. Street
restoration will be included with Erie, Chan View, and West 77th Street
Improvement Project 75-11.
Judy Schmieg - One unit to Sorenson. Two hook ups of water and sewer
and one unit charged to Sorenson?
Bill Brezinsky - One unit on this project. The Sorenson property was
previously assessed two units on a former project. Although they
were assessed two units they only had service to one property. Right
now, with the installation of this, he has service to three
developable lots. I am talking about sanitary sewer. On the water
main he will be assessed for both services that were installed.
Judy Schmieg - What determines the Char-Lyn property with two
assessments?
Bill Brezinsky - One assessment for each 100 feet that abuts the
sewer line.
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Public Hearing, Project 75-7, August 29, 1977
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Don Schmieg - My sewer service happens to end up six foot deep in the
street at the lot line. I have a verbal thing with one of the employees
of the city that they will fill the lot so that I can build a house
in the ground. I wonder if that will stand up when it comes time for
me to build a house there and I want to put that basement in the
ground. Is that something that the city is going to go along with or
am I going to have a fight about this.
Bill Brezinsky - The original sanitary sewer was put in about six feet
deep. We came out~lat as we could and that's as low as we can get
to serve your lot. I feel an eight foot basement can be served off that
line with a reasonable setback. When you say that it's only six feet
deep at the property line, do you realize that at the property line
the property is below grade level.
Don Schmieg - I would like someone from the city to come out and shoot
that property and put it down in writing that I can definitely serve
an eight foot basement with a 30 foot setback.
Russell Larson - If we can't provide the service to him them we can't
assess him.
Don Schmieg - Then the question arises, when do we do it. Are we going
to do it now or do we wait until I want to build a house? I have to
find out now because if I don't do it now you are going to come and tell
me, well, I didn't know anything about it. I want to be able to put a
normal house in there. Not a split entry or a split level or anything
other than a normal house.
Bill Brezinsky - We will go out with our surveyors and have the
elevation for you.
Mayor Hobbs - What you could do
review forms and that will give you
of the engineer's findings you will
is fill out one of the administrative
further record and then the results
have on Tuesday.
Councilman Pearson moved to close the public hearing on Erie Avenue
Sanitary Sewer. Motion seconded by Councilman Neveaux. The following
voted in favor: Mayor Hobbs, Councilmen Pearson, Neveaux, Waritz, and
Geving. No negative votes. Hearing closed at 9:00 p.m.
PUBLIC ASSESSMENT HEARING
EAST LOTUS LAKE SEWER, WATER, AND STREET IMPROVEMENT PROJECT 75-10
AUGUST 29, 19771 AT 9:00 P.M.
Mayor Hobbs-called the hearing to order with the following persons present:
Mr. and Mrs. Michael Max, 7500 Chanhassen Road
Mr. and Mrs. Irving Raymond, 7440 Chanhassen Road
Don Fowler, 7470 Chanhassen Road
Mr. and Mrs. Wilfred Goran, 489 Pleasant View Road
Frances O'Brien, 450 Pleasant View Road
Mr. and Mrs. Arnold Schroeder, 175 Pleasant View Road
Michael Thompson, 695 Pleasant View Road
Mr. and Mrs. S. M. Osgood, 745 Pleasant View Road
Mr. and Mrs. Hubert Kask, 115 Pleasant View Road
Floyd Homstad, 7020 Dakota Circle
Elwood McCary, 108 Sandy Hook Road
Robert Reichert, 640 Pleasant View Road
Otto Flom, 6590 Chanhassen Road
John Davidson, 6607 Horseshoe Curve
Public Hearing, Project 75-10, August 29, 1977
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Mrs. Alex Hartmann, 6687 Horseshoe Curve
Art Knapp, 6697 Horseshoe Curve
Mr. and Mrs. Wes Arseth, 7520 Chanhassen Road
Mr. and Mrs. John Segner, 7530 Chanhassen Road
Mr. and Mrs. John Melby, 7540 Chanhassen Road
Harlan Felker, 429 Pleasant View Road
Frank Kuzma1 6651 Horseshoe Curve
Mel Kurvers, 7240 Chanhassen Road
Mr. and Mrs. Joe Welter, 7420 Chanhassen Road
Mr. and Mrs. Carl McNutt, 185 Pleasant View Road
Steve Murphy, 195 Pleasant View Road
Lloyd Wenning, 75 Pleasant View Road
Robert Stevens, 6614 Horseshoe Curve
R. V. Nelson, 135 Pleasant View Road
G. Kendrick, 540 Iroquois
W. E. Huskins, Jr., 102 Sandy Hook Road
Ladd Conrad, 6625 Horseshoe Curve
Mr. and Mrs. Gordon Julius, 330 Pleasant View Road
Mr. and Mrs. Frank Kurvers, 7220 Chanhassen Road
Jim Callinan, 6613 Horseshoe Curve
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The City Engineer explained the assessment procedure. For assessment
purposes the project was divided into three areas; Area A is south
of Colonial Grove, Area B includes Colonial Grove and the area to
the north to the ridge line, Area C is the remaining area north
of Colonial Grove and the Horseshoe. The total cost of the project
is $1,694,057. The costs are higher than what was originally presented
at the public hearing. There are several reasons: I
1. The bids that were taken did come in higher~i~about 10% than
the original estimate. There were 15 bidders,indicating good
competition.
2. There is higher sanitary sewer trunk costs in Areas Band C.
The city had to pay Eden Prairie $61,000 to connect to their trunk
system. This $61,000 raised the trunk unit cost~in Areas Band C
$147.00. At the time of the feasibility study and the original
public hearing it was estimated to be $5,000.
3. In Area C the easement payments amounted to $43,712.00. This
results in a cost of about $336.00 per unit.
More up to date cost revisions were presented. Area A unit cost is
$395.00 less and Area B $111.00 less. The assessments will be spread
over 15 years at 7 percent interest. Assessment review request forms
are available and must be completed to the city by September 1 to be
reviewed by the Council on September 6. Property owners were
reminded they have until October 6, 1977, to pay all or a portion of
their assessment with no interest charged.
Bill Huskins, Area B - To whom does the basic responsibility of
overseeing the performance of the contractors lie: Schoell and Madson
or the city?
Mayor Hobbs - Schoell and Madson as the city's engineer.
Bill Huskins - I am wondering who did the supervising because we were I
able to observe certain things which we are very critical of and I
guess I wanted to know to whom I might address my criticism.
Mayor Hobbs - I suppose you would address it to us.
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Public Hearing, Project 75-10, August 29, 1977
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Elwood McCary, Area B - Is the work officially over?
Bill Brezinsky - None of the projects have been completed. We have
not completed our final engineering inspection. Once we do that we will
give the contractor a punchlist~ a list of work we consider deficient.
After the contractor has finished with that work we will send out letters
to everyone in the project soliciting. complaints of the work done.
These complaints will be submitted to us or the city and we will make
sure that all those complaints are answered prior to submitting the
request for final payments to the Council. After the Council makes
the final payment on the. project the contractor must furnish a bond
for the entire amount of the project for one year after final payment
is made.
Harlan Felker, Area C - You still haven't told us why we are six to
seven percent over.
Bill Brezinsky - The two items in your area that I mentioned were,
the connection to the Eden prairie trunk which costs $147.00 per unit.
We had anticipated about $12.00 a unit.
Mayor Hobbs - Your total assessment in Area C went up approximately
$336.00 because in that area we paid out $43,712 in easement acquisition.
The easement acquisition in this project far exceeded any percentage
for easement acquisition in previous projects and far exceeded our
expectations. We had almost a $5 million project in the north area
and we paid out around $25#000 total.
Russell Larson - I think it was largely a change of attitude on the
part of the people involved, the property owners in the project area.
There was a time in a project such as this where everybody moved forward
and donated their easements without any payment to them for the right
to cross their property. That attitude has changed' and changed
substantially. That's what hit us very hard in Area C. We sp~rtt a
lot of money acquiring easements and we had to go into condemnation
on a number of them.
Harlan Felker - What was the difference?
Bill Brezinsky - I anticipated $40.00 per unit. Easement costs were
$338.00 a unit. That's almOst $300 more..· This is based on past projects
similar to this. one. There was a total of $225 paid in Area A. Total
$225 for this entire project. Not,_per unit, $10.00 per unit.
Ella Kask, Area C - Isn't it possible when you are having trouble
with easements to assess the people that refuse to give easements?
Mayor Hobbs - No, we can't do that. We pay these easements very, very
reluctantly. The fact of the matter is it's their property and if they
want to go that way we have a process, we go to condemnation, get
appraisers, that costs money. They can't hold up the project. We did
not anticipate the type of reluctance we encountered.
Ella Kask - How do you deduct that $1,000 figure from some and not from
others?
Bill Brezinsky - There are some properties that are not served by public
street but do have sanitary sewer and water.
Ella Kask - We come off a private street tø our driveway.
Councilman Neveaux - You have access off the private street but your
property runs along Pleasant View Road. ThatJswhere they assessed
you as front benefit-even though your access if off a private street.
Bill Brezinsky - If you were in-'one 'lot off thàtcroad then' it's been
past policy not to assess.
Ella Kask - Everybody on Pleasant View uses that road. There is no
way you can get anywhere without going out on Pleasant View. Like what
Public Hearing, Project 75-10, August 29, 1977
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I was saying about paying for easements, it's the same principal.
Bill Brezinsky - You are welcome to make that suggestion on the
request for review form. The Council will take another look at it.
Jim Callinan, Area C - I was wondering if a list of the people that
got money for easements couldn't be published or posted to discourage
this kind of thing in the future. I think we ought to know who those
people are. I think it should be public information.
Russell Larson - While these are public records and I will make them
available to such of you who wish to know and are eligible to know.
We would not recommend to the Council that they have such a policy
because that's going to make our job ten times harder the next trip
around.
Elwood McCary, Area B - Are there some homes in Area B that are not
being assessed for streets?
Bill Brezinsky - There is one. It's not in Colonial Grove. It's not
being assessed sewer either.
Elwood McCary - I assume the reason that Area B has $1,000 and probably
more in the road is because of area, is that the reason?
Bill Brezinsky - The main reason is because the lots are 150 feet
in comparison with others and also the width of the street in your
area are 28 feet wide whereas in the Pleasant View area they are 20.
You have wider streets and more frontage.
Mike Max, Area A - I would like to goon record that I am protesting
the assessment on my Lot 9, Sunset View Addition. I turned in a
review assessment form.
Otto Flom, Area C - When is the sewer going to be available to
existing homes in my area?
Bill Brezinsky - In this area we did not put in sanitary sewer along
Highway 101 because we feel it would be more practical to serve
these properties through something in the future when this property
developes.
Otto Flom - But I am assessed a big amount for water already and what
good is that extra lot to me if I can't build on it without sewer.
Bill Brezinsky - That's true. We don't know when the sewer will be
available because there are no plans right now for that property.
Ella Kask - Is it ever- possible to maybe after two years decide I
don't want it on my taxes anymore and pay it up?
Mayor Hobbs - Sure.
Craig Mertz - The interest is always a year ahead so if you pay it
in the middle of a calendar year you are still going to have to pay
the interest through the balance of the year.
Mayor Hobbs - If you want to pay up next year you would have to pay
by the first of October to avoid the next year.
Don Ashworth - At that point it would have to be the full amount.
this time you can make a partial payment.
Frank Kurvers, Area A - Areas A and B were bid together. You said
the bids came in 10 percent higher, how much more did it cost
beside the 10 percent. The total figure.
Bill Brezinsky - The costs were separated out. Area B is $600 over
per unit. Area A is $75.00 less than the feasibility study.
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Public Hearing, Project 75-10, August 29, 1977
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Bill Huskins, Area B - It was obvious when I got up to have breakfast
in the morning that during the last 30 days, it was supposed to be done
on December 15, and by November 15 it was for all practical purposes
done but there were people out there from November 15 to December 15
with nothing to do and it showed. AlII can say is I believe we had
"Murphy's Law" and that was at the time it was available was until
December 15 for that particular-part of the project and they used it
because it was there, it was in their forecast.
Mayor Hobbs - We don't bid anything in terms of labor.
Bill Huskins - I can't buy that. I am just saying that I believe we did
not get what we might have had with the favorable situation last fall,
we did not get it. I expected it might result in an under run rather
than a lO percent overrun.
Mayor Hobbs - I don't think you can have an:overrun until the rock,
the base, the sod and those things overrun. If a guy bids a certain
amount of rock or he bi~a pipe to go in so deep and that's how deep
it went in,that's what we paid for.
Bob Reichert, Area C - There are some suspicious things that have
happened here and happened all through the project.
Mayor Hobbs "7' ¡think you shouldknow\tðo in termS-~ofthe conversation
we had earlier on hooking up with the Eden Prairie sewer. We held
up the contractor trying to get that resolved. He may well have been
sitting there waiting for us.
Bill Soth, Near Mountain Properties, Area C ~I would just like to note
an appearance on their behalf. Because of the way the notice was
addressed we didn't get it until just recently and we haven't had the
chance to meet with the engineers yet or review the criteria for
assessments. I would like to request that we get a copy of that
criteria so that we can review it. I would like to reserve the right
to object to those assessments. If it's appropriate, I would like
to request a meeting with the engineer to discuss this further in
advance of your meeting on September 6 in case we wish to file a
request.
Frank Kurvers, Area A - At the public hearing it was mentioned that there
would be some type of deferrment, at the present time is it. Qnly. a senior
citizendeferrment?
Bill Brezinsky - That's the only type that's being deferred.
Don Ashworth - The review forms should be in city hall no later than
5:00 p.m. Thursday, September 1 so that the-Council can review them
on Tuesday evening.
Floyd Homstad, Area B - Is the lift station heavy enough to handle
the development to the north?
Bill Brezinsky - Yes. The development up to the ridge line.
Councilman Neveaux moved to close the East Lotus Lake Project 75-10
public hearing. Motion seconded by Councilman Geving. The following
voted in favor: Mayor Hobbs, Councilmen Pearson, Neveaux, Waritz, and
Geving. No negative votes. Hearing closed at 10:30 p.m.
Special Council Meeting August 29, 1977
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SHORE ACRES SEWER PROJECT 77-2: The City Attorney asked Council
approval of the easement acquisition policy as setforth in his
letter of August 23, 1977.
Councilman Pearson moved to the
set forth in the City Attorney's
seconded by Councilman Neveaux.
Mayor Hobbs, Councilmen Pearson,
negative votes. Motion carried.
easement acquisition policy as
letter of August 23, 1977. Motion
The following voted in favor:
Neveaux, Waritz, and Geving. No
ERIE, CHAN VIEW, WEST 77TH STREET PROJECT 75-11: Jack Gill and
Bill Brezinsky were present. The engineer has stopped the
construction. If construction were to continue in the manner it is
being done, removing all the poor materials, would result in a
overrun of 53.9% on the project. The engineer will prepare
alternate plans for completion of the project for the September 6
Council meeting. Staff will notify all property owners that
this matter will be considered at the September 6th Council
meeting.
Councilman Pearson moved to adjourn. Motion seconded by Councilman
Geving. The following voted in favor: Mayor Hobbs, Councilmen
Pearson, Neveaux, Waritz, and Geving. No negative votes. Meeting
adjourned at 12:00.
Don Ashworth
City Manager
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