1976 04 12
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PUBLICHEAIttNG ""''';.'' . ,',"
ŒAN VIEW, ERIE, AND : WEST, 77IT'H STREET AJ:Ø; S~Æ~$~'~~S i::.}~~!,~,,-, i ,..'1'1'./
:r,~: APRIL 12;, 1976 ~)(AT.,<1>t,jo-!.7~.M¡:'JL~' c ,::r JJ9.5m: T -','. ·:r.$ï~)&;ítf~,··'-'.
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19fé;,!;~~;~~~~ ~~~~~~,h~~~~~~Ë~~'~~ß=~.::sent:
-jJ, ' Mrs. Robert M8uwissen, 201 West 77th Street 'Jë,~ Ci!.:ë,r 8U',:' "
:''''OJiJ'' Frederick Coulter, 7616 Frontier Trail iic) ()ff:J "éô'I.U
'{'J' ,r'C: Paul Rojina, 220 West 77th Street (d::~ XU
Earl McAllister, 7510 Erie n el-~j~ rr;'"
Sargent Palmer, 7608 Erie .Ci ",
Ibnald Roeser, 222 Chan View
Mr. and Mrs. Lean Burdick, 206 Chan View
Mr. and Mrs. Wayne Anderson, 204 Chan View
Mr. and Mrs. Lbnald Schmieg, 7703 Erie
Thomas Klingelhutz, 225 West 77th Street
Jerry Boucher, 1042 West 67th Street
Jerry Neher, 205 West 77th Street
Vernon Zetah, 7500 Erie
Mr. and Mrs. 'Ibny Louris, 4110 25th Avenue So., Mpls.
Frances Jacques, 308 Chan View
Mr. and Mrs. o. F. Iverson, 223 Chan View
Anna Swenson, 207 Chan View
'Sally deLancey, 7505 Frontier Trail
Mr. and Mrs. Ted Garvais, 200 Chan View
Curtis Robinson, 202 West 77th Street
Viola Buschkowsky, 206 West 78th Street
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The official notice as published in the Carver County Herald was read by the
Administrator.
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Bill Brezinsky gave the presentation. Included in this study was Erie Avenue frqm
West 78th Street to the north end of the existing private road, West 77th Street<frorn ¡
Great Plains Blvd. to its eastern end and Chan View from Frontier Trail to its e.àstern ':
: end:.: In conjunction with the street irrprov-errent a solution to some of the drairlãcjè ;:'
problems in the area were also studied. Because of an inadequate base the stre~ts:~:
.œing considered are a continuing maintenance problem. The annual maintenance èostj
on these streets is estimated to be about $1,200. The Engineer proposed to constrU¢t
the streets to 7 ton capacity. The only maintenance would be sealcoating applied .
aJ:x:jut every five years. The sealcoat would be applied even if the streets weren't,.
irrproved. The continual application of sealcoat and asphalt has brought the streets"
in the area generally to an elevation above the adjacent lawns. The runoff from the..
streets then goes from the streets to the yards and along the edge of the blacktop.
'llie Engineer proposes that if these streets are upgraded that there be a general
löwering of all the streets so that wherever possible the runoff would be from the
lawns into the streets and be contained within the streets. The streets are proposed
to be 28 feet wide and widening be done equally on either side except for the private
'rQad portion of Erie which would be widened on the east.
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The Engineer recommended cul-de-sacs at the end of Erie and West 77th Street. Chan
View would not have a cul-de-sac now but if the City builds a utility building at
that location a turn around would be built.
Three alternate curb sections are provided.
1. - Three inch asphalt.
2. - Six inch asphalt.
,3. "'7",_Six inch co:oæmteLfaútr"b}[a1nðJ-~teJtro-::[qrÜ oj 1,'~' -~'
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When the sewer and water was originally'inStå:11eci in this area there weren't individual
Chan View, Erie, and West 77th Street Public Hearing, April 12, 1976 -2-
service lines extended to serve all the vacant properties and some homes. The Engineer
recomnended that these services be installed at this time so that the streets won't
have to be torn up again.
The area was divided into three drainage areas. An existing six inch tile drains the
interior part of Blocks 1 and 4. The Engineer recommended to eliminate the problem
the six inch tile line be replaced with a 12 inch pipe running along Erie and an
18 inch pipe across the Rojina property to the drainage way. The remaining runoff
from Area A will flow to the streets and along the streets to a low point at Erie and
West 77th streets. He recorrmended that three catch basins be placed at the
intersection to pick up the runoff. The cost of the storm sewer would be assessed
against all private property in Drainage Area A. The estimated cost would be 5¢ a
square foot for each square foot of property that contributed to this system.
The runoff from Drainage Area B flows to another creek which is connected with the
creek in Drainage Area A and ends up in lotus Lake. The Engineer recorru:nended that
with this improvement the drainage would flow to a low point on Erie and two catch
basins and 18 inch pipe to pick up the water and direct it into the ditch. The
estimated cost would be l¢ a square foot.
The runoff from Drainage Area C flows to the road and would flow to a low area and
ultirrately under State Highway 101. The Engineer did not recorrrnend a storm sewer in
this area. This area probably will be assessed in the future for storm sewer
improvement in the Highway 101 area which is currently under study by the Highway
Department.
If the project was authorized by the City, work could be conpleted this year and be
assessed this fall with payments beginning in 1977.
The City Planner gave a report. The Planning CommQssion reviewed the inprovement
project and feels that the street improvements are consistent with the intent of the
Canprehensive Plan.
The meeting was opened for comments from the floor.
Fred Coulter - Why do these streets have to be 28 feet wide? All of these streets
are dead end streets and are not collectors for any particular area.
This would reduce the cost per foot from $11. 55 to $10.75 for a 26 foot
wide street or $9.95 for a 24 foot wide street. This would be a
considerable savings.
M:tyor Klingelhutz - This was passed in the City Ordinance. There is the possibility
that it could be lowered somewhat. Frontier Trail will be 28
feet from West 78th Street to 77th Street and then it cuts down to
26 feet. This is something that the Council will take into
consideration if we decide to put in these streets.
Fred Coulter - I notice infonration that was sent to me that has ao::::Iuisition of
right of way for street widening purposes I assurœ that I s for the area
on Erie Avenue. I was wondering if there was any possibility of the
City approaching these people to give the land thereby again cutting
down the cost.
Craig Mertz - We always try to acquire property for a very small fee.
Fred Coulter - At this time there are no erosion control dams and according to the
feasibili ty study you plan to put two erosion control dams, one on the
Hedtke property and one on deLancey's property. What is the increase
in volume of water that I s going to be coming from Drainage Areas A and
B and will these erosion control dams stop Lot 12 being washed into
lotus lake?
M:tyor Klingelhutz - We are trying to improve something that has been happening in the
past by these erosion control dams.
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Chan View, Erie,' ·apd:. West 7~th.,:Streeb_'BblÜic·' HeMing" ,Apr;i.l 12i,~~7¡Qc ,::c~3"'"
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B±lbBrezinskÝ"- We :Q¡'è:pr6g;ß:~~ f,~"·i>~~·"'}~.'-·:-'~n~£ 'àt!;-J.~~ii~~~oši~~'; control" .
-' _~:r~10ng' tri~ei:~>:~'~¡, .~' : . J'¡::;ifWs a~jip~tlwere to go ahead we
would' have to do £urlher dr~nage s-l:udies and, WEã-rWQwd¡mye to
determine exactly how much Irore water wil1·be generated fran 1:þ..ts . (,',
area into these creeks and we would have to design for erosion, _,". ,,' '
accordingly. 'Ibis stonn sewer project will be subject to review'by
the Riley Purgatory Creek Watershed District. .'
Fred Coulter - Will their report be in prior to you approving this?,
,for : Bill Brezinsky -We want to have their recarnnendations or their requi,renents '\before W~:i .
let the project out for bids. If their requirements are substantiall9::;
IIDre than what we are talking about here then we would-gçf:to,c~~"; -
Council and tell them that the project is now going to cost sO mu,qn,
more because of these things and the Council would reconsider it.SC.: '
"Fred Coulter - As I understand builevard trees are trees that are incth.e'eas~'that
, abut certain peoples property. L<:Mering these streets there is going to
¡ ,'.' be a certain arrount of root damage to trees. In one or two years
" ' when these trees die who is going to pick up the cost for this? .
""Bill Brezinsky - I am not aware of any trees that are that close where the lowering
of the road would damage the roots. We have all the trees shown on
the plan. On most of these streets we are talking about lowering
about six inches.
Craig M8rtz - Any tree that is located within the City right-of-way is the City's
property. ,,<" Xj~(-
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: Niola Buschkowsky - I live on West 78th street and I was wondering why I would be .
assessed.
"Bill. Brezinsky - Your property is in Drainage Area C. There is no storm sewer in this
('. area so you wouldn't pay any assessment and you wouldn't get a.D:X;.þOri,<
streets either. "
Mëí.yor Klingelhutz - The reason you got notice of this at the time we h~d this aréá\
for stonn sewer and a little portion of your property would .:"
benefi t and we did not know at the time that there wouldn't be any
stonn sewer assessrœnt.
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\Sargent Palmer -
'Ibis is a nice drainage plan, it stops right there an 18 inch pipe.
You will run it right on my property. Fifteen years I have taken all
this water. It's got a ditch down there about 14 feet wide 6 to 8 feet
deep. I ~ going ~ be taxed,for all this water that ~)don't need..-;..,;
I am certainly agalnst: all thlS. They say 5¢ a square foot I' ll( '.
take 5¢ a square foot for all your water. I am going to get i t y~f'_,'
you want me to pay for it. I am against it. I just can't see i t~ .
It's an awful lot of water and I've only got 100 feet.
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Sally deLancey - I would like to ask someone where the erosion control darns will bè
particular ly on IT!Y property.
Bill Brezinsky - Right now we plan on an erosion control dam where the two creeks· join
and another one just prior to where the creek enters Lot 12 waterWåÿ.'
Sally deLancey - The deIancey property is going to get the brunt of all this wa.ter;. "
If you were smart I would assume you were diverting it across that:'
perpetual easement that you got on our land and therefore we probably
can't do anything abouti t but at the same time I am beginning to,: do
a very slow burn about what's happening to our ten acres of land f.
both frcm your Frontier Trail Project, now the stonn sewer project,
projects that are going on and I think we have mentioned it before
that land isn't going to be there for people to enjoy it you are
going to rip it to shreds and we are going to have to develop it in
,'.'," . order to pay for all this. I. would like an eXPJ-pnatip1}a,§tb"cY>'l1¥" .
:ì¡ . ëO" you' ar~:'-gøing to let all that water go and not ti:y to do SÔIæThiri'g:;·~,
. 'cc' Asfara:s I can figure out,· the Maiptençmce-and Sewer Departments ~e .
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Chan View, Erie and West 77th street Public Hearing, April 12, 1976
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really the ones who have complained. Is this correct? Have any
of the people living on these horres complained?
M3.yor Klingelhutz - We have had several requests from different people in the area
requesting these improvements. The M3.intenance Ceparbnent advised
us years ago that this is one of the areas that streets should be I
improved in Chanhassen because those streets never did have a
majorlimprovement. It was sealcoated on top of black ground and, .
grave .
Sally deLancey - The project was not pushed by the people that are living in this area,
is that correct?
,Mayor Klingelhutz - We have not had a petition to have these streets irrproved but we
have had a lot of complaints from the people in the area that the
streets are in poor condition.
Sally deLancey - You say $1,200 a year to improve these streets. The minimum cost of
this project is $83,000. If you take the $1200 a year and average that
out over the $83,000 you are going to throw on these few people, it's
70 years. How in the world can you think that this is equitable. I
cannot see any justification for this. The streets need improving yes,
I will agree with that, but do they need $83,000 worth? Does the
deLancey property need to be ripped to pieces again because you are
going to throw tons more water.
Don Schmieg - I happen to be one of the people that drown when the water doesn't get
changed. Anybody that lives down there knows where I sit, right on the
corner of Chan View and Erie. The street is alxmt a foot and a half to
two foot higher than my lot all the water that corres down Chan View runs
down in my yard. If I understood Bill right they are going to lower the
street sorrewhat but the way it is now six inches wouldn't do the trick on
Chan View at all. My lot is quite a bit lower than that. I
Bill Brezinsky - The roads will be lowered not enough to take it out from the low
area, however, the road grades can be adjusted enough so that the
runoff will drain to the road but not directly.
Don Schmieg - On the other drainage area you have no sewer assessment down on my
property down there.
Bill Brezinsky - I haven't shown the sewer service. We are going to put sanitary
sewer and will serve the area west of Erie.
Earl McAllister - Has there been any provision set aside for sewer or water on the east
side of Erie.
Bill Brezinsky - Services will be added at this time.
Earl McAllister - Will the existing culverts on the driveways be eJminiated?
Bill Brezinsky - Yes, they will.
M3.yor Klingelhutz - The road will be lowered and the water will come directly onto the
blacktop.
Annie Iverson - What about these people on fixed incorres? That would be an awful tax
burden.
Mayor Klin:jelhutz - It is not the object to throw anybody out of their homes.
Frances Jacques - Would I be assessed for frontage on 77th Street? I paid full coverage
on Great Plains Blvd.
Mayor Klingelhutz - If you paid front footage on one side you sure wouldn't be assessed
for over 50% on the other side.
Sargent Palmer - Anybody ever talked to a lawyer about getting an easerrent to run this
water over my property?
Bill Brezinsky - Yes. The Attorney has refOrted to the Council that he felt the City
should have an easement along these drainage ways for rraintenance
of the erosion control dams and the water ways and any other work
tha t needs to be done in the future.
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Chan View, Erie, and West 77th Street Public Hearing, April 12, 1976
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Mayor Klingelhutz - The project has not been approved by the Council. They don't send
the Attorney out in the field to get easements until such time
as the project has been approved.
Vernon Zetah - I don't need a $6,000 assessment.
Jerry Neher - I will speak in favor of it. If I build up rrw driveway I plug the whole
thing up and it backs up to the neighbors. In 1965 the culvert across
Erie plugged up it could happen again. The street is to high in that
particular spot and our lots just won't drain out. I do argue with the
drainage plan there as far as drainage in the back end of the north lots
across Block 3 there is only about 45 feet that drains onto that street on
West 77th Street. I am in favor of the project.
Ted Garvais - All the lots slope toward the rear and the water comes down to the ditch
and then to the street. I was wondering if anything was in those plans
for that ditch. So far I have been maintaining it. Every year I have
to shovel slushy snow out of there to keep the water moving or it would
come to rrw back door.
Bill Brezinsky - We have considered stonn sewer within the area but only in the street
area. We haven't looked into doing anything on private property.
We aren't proposing any stonn sewer at all in Area C. We will look
at it.
LOn Schmieg - I am definitely in favor of the project in fact I went up and asked for it.
Councilman shulstad - I would encourage both proponents and opponents of the proposal to
submi t petitions to the City Council.
Paul Rojina - If you put the roads in down there is it going to happen like it did on
Laredo? What is the lifetime of a 9 ton road? Laredo was put in according
to specifications and I don't know where the inspector was but it's
breaking up now and that's a 9 ton. What would the guarantee be?
I don't care to pay for somebodys mistakes like that.
Bill Brezinsky - We feel that a 7 ton road with the traffic that these roads will carry
wi th sealcoating every five years will essentially last forever if
they are properly installed.
Paul Rojina - A lot of the fill was put in on Laredo after 4 or 5:00 p.m. and that's
I think one of the big problems. They were trying to get it done and
nobody was watching them. There should be engineers out there watching
night and day. It's nw taxes that are going to help pay to redo Laredo
just because somebody goofed up. I just don't want that to happen down
there then you might as well leave it the way it is.
Judy Schmieg - Can't special assessments be deferred for senior citizens until the
time they sell their home?
Mayor Klingelhutz - We did some of this in the north service area. We have to have
proof of financial problems before we can do it. It could be done
in the future.
A motion was rrade by Councilman Hobbs and seconded by Councilman Kurvers to close the
public hearing. The following voted in favor: M3.yor Klingelhutz, Councilmen Hobbs,
Neveaux, Shulstad, and Kurvers. No negative votes. M8eting closed at 8:50 p.m.
A motion was made by Councilman Kurvers and seconded by Councilman Shulstad to table
a decision until the first meeting in M3.y to give the people time to send in COIl'UT'ents
and the City Engineer has time to study drainage problems raised tonight. The following
voted in favor: Mayor Klingelhutz, Councilmen Hobbs, Neveaux, Shulstad, and Kurvers.
No negative votes. M:Jtion carried.
LOn Ashworth, Clerk-Administrator
SPECIAL CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL MEETING APRIL 12, 1976
Mayor Klingelhutz called the meeting to order at 9:10 p.m. with the following
members present: Councilmen Hobbs, Neveaux, Shulstad, and Kurvers. Mr. and Mrs.
Mike Nierœyer, Tim Stone, Bill MJreno, Jerry Poucher, Henry Wrase, and Jerry schlenk
were present.
CARVER BEAΠGUIDE PlAN AMENDMENI': Craig Mertz explained there are three actions
the Council can take. The Council can either act on the Planning Commission
reconmenda tions to approve the amendments in total or can act on the recormnendations
and disapprove them in total or approve them with modifications. If the Council
approves or disapproves the proposed amendments in its whole would require a 3/5
vote. If the Council wants to make modifications of the Planning Commission
recomrrendations a 4/5 vote is required.
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The Planning Commission recorrmendations of Ix1arch 31, 1976, were discussed.
Councilman Kurvers - I think that particularly Huron is owned by all the people in the
ci ty of Chanhassen. According to the plan of Carver Beach, I
think it is wrong. The Ci ty of Chanhassen does not own the land
along Huron. 'Ihe people that own the land have a right to build
a house on it and they can have their access off of Huron. I
think it should be blacktopped.
Councilman Hobbs - I think in light of the 50 or 60 pages of material we have had
and the verbal corrments we have had that I guess I can't honestly
say at this particular point in tirœ whether I think it should be
blacktopped or not. When I was reading the Planning Corrmission
minutes of March 31, 1976, I thought Bruce r s comrents were very I
apropos. I think that the people that live in Carver Beach
realize that if this road is not blacktopped at this time and
this Councilor sorœ other Council decides in the future after
looking at such things as how the ownership patterns develop,
what happens with the DNR, what happens to the total City
Corrprehensive Plan and we decide to go back in there and blacktop
it, it's going to be blacktopped at an increased cost. In fact I
know they are aware of it because I have talked to several of them
and they feel that is a price they are willing to pay to wait and
see how viable this plan is going to be. I am not smart enough
right now to know whether it should or shouldn't be paved and I
don 1 t feel at this particular point in time I could vote for
blacktopping.
Councilman Shulstad - I am really right aJ:out exactly where Walt is. I agree with the
City Planner's final position on this as well as the position of
the Chairman of the Planning Commission. I think we have the
time to take a look at what happens. We have sorœ tine to find
out if the Carver Beach Plan is valid. I disagree with Frank
saying that the plan should be changed. I like the plan. I
would like to give it a chance to see if it will work. In
the March 31 meeting Bill says we could live with it for awhile
I interpret that to be maybe one or btlo winters. I don't know
ei ther if Huron should be paved but I am not convinced at this
point that is should be therefore I can't vote to have it
paved either.
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Mayor Klingelhutz - The main point at this time is it's the only road into an area.
It is the only road for any type of protection, fire, police,
medical Emergency, ambulance, tornado and there are rrany big trees
down there. If one fell over the road these people would be
Special Council M8eting April 12, 1976
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landlocked in there and knowing the condition of the road ~
its present state, the way it reacts to the weather in the spring
of the year. I think the City would be remiss in not giving
these people a road that can be depended on, at least one road.
What happens when the road gets blocked. Who are these people
going to blame then? Are they going to say the City of Chanhassen
was negligent in only providing one road for the area? These
same people came to us a few years ago and said we only have one
road into Carver Beach it is dangerous and they asked the City to
give than another road so they have two accesses. If the City
or the people that live down in that area want to buy up the land
sanetime in the future and all have their access on Carver Beach
Road, fine, but I don't think the City should be held liable for
closing a road that the public access to parcels of property at
the present time.
Councilman Neveaux - It's not a question of black and white. I don't think all the
options are in. It's really bothering me. I felt back in 1972
when we were discussing the Guide Plan of Carver Beach that it
was a good plan and I don't think we have given it enough chance
to see what it can do. I tend to side with Walt. I see ten out
of 16 people do not want it blacktopped. It makes me think all
the rrore that we shouldn't blacktop it. I don't think we are going
to lose anything by waiting a year or two years to give the plan
a little rrore chance to shake itself down. I think the advent of
the availability of sewer and water in the area is going to be
qui te a shaping influence on the kinds of development. I don't
think that by not blacktopping it now is going to change the
availability of anergency vehicle access to the area.
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A motion was made by Councilman Kurvers and seconded by Councilman Neveaux to approve
the Planning Commission's recormnendation. The following voted in favor: Mayor
Klingelhutz and Councilman Kurvers. Councilmen Hobbs, Shulstad, and Neveaux voted no.
MJtion failed.
A motion was made by Councilman Shulstad and seconded by Councilman Hobbs that the
Council not adopt the Planning Cormnission recorrmendation of March 31, 1976, to pave
Huron to an 18 foot width as referred to in the Engineer's report of February 11, 1976.
The following voted in favor: Councilmen Hobbs, Shulstad, and Neveaux. Mayor
Klingelhutz and Councilrran Kurvers voted no. MJtion carried.
A motion was rna.deby Councilman Shulstad and seconded by Councilman Hobbs to authorize
the Engineer to explore alternative ways to ease the slope on Devils Slide and with
that additional information make a recorrrnendation whether to pave it or not. The
following voted in favor: Mayor Klingelhutz, Councilmen Hobbs, Neveaux, Shulstad, and
Kurvers. No negative votes. MJtion carried.
A rrotion was made by Councilrran Hobbs and seconded by Councilman Shulstad to adopt the
Planning Ccrnmission recormnendation to pave Ivy to a 14 foot width one way west to east
between Nez Perce and Carver Beach Road. The following voted in favor: Mayor
Klingelhutz, Councilmen Hobbs, Neveaux, Shulstad, and Kurvers. No negative votes.
MJtion carried.
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A motion was rnade by Councilman Shulstad and seconded by Councilman Neveaux to adopt
the recorrrnendation of the Planning Commission to pave West 69th Street to a width of
18 feet between Iroquois and Carver Beach Road. The following voted in favor: Mayor
Klingelhutz, Councilmen Hobbs, Neveaux, Shulstad, and Kurvers. No negative votes.
MJtion carried.
Special Council Meeting April 12, 1976
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A nütion was made by Councilman Shulstad and seconded by Councilman Neveaux to adopt
the recolTlIl'errlation of the Planning conmission to pave EJm Road to a width of
12 feet and designate ita one way street west to east. The following voted in
favor: M:tyor Klingelhutz, Councilrren Hobbs, Neveaux, and Shulstad. Councilman
Kurvers voted no. MJtion carried.
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A rrotion was ma.de by Councilman Neveaux and seconded by Councilman Kurvers to reduce
the width of Iroquois betv.Teen West 68th Street and West 69th Street to a width of
18 feet. The following voted in favor: M:tyor Klingelhutz, Councibnen Hobbs, Neveaux,
Shulstad, and Kurvers. J:\b negative votes. MJtion carried.
EAST IDTUS LAKE AREA FEASIBILITY STUDY: A nütion was made by Councilman Shulstad
and seconded by Councilman Hobbs to put the East Lotus Lake Area Feasibility Study
on the next Council agenda. The following voted in favor: M:tyor Klingelhutz,
CouncilITen Hobbs, Neveaux, Shulstad, and Kurvers. No negative votes. fution carried.
A rrotion was made by Councilnan Hobbs and seconded by Councilman Shulstad to adjourn.
The following voted in favor: Mayor Klingelhutz, CounciJmen Hobbs, Neveaux, Shulstad,
and Kurvers. No negative votes. Meeting adjourned at 12:00.
D::m Ashworth
Clerk-Administrator
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