1975 08 11
I
I
I
SPECIAL CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL MEETING AUGUST 11, 1975
Mayor Klingelhutz called the meeting to order at 8:00 p.m. with the
following members present: Councilmen Neveaux and Kurvers. Councilmen
Hobbs and Shulstad were absent.
PROJECT 71-lE - WES SEARLES: Mr. and Mrs. Searles were present. Bill
Brezinsky presented a proposal to restore the Searles front yard. He
suggested to slope the front yard uniformly to match the slope at the
driveway. Mr. Sealres has agreed to the slope but wants a retaining
wall made of railroad ties on three sides of the existing maple tree.
The estimated cost is $600 with work to be done by Minn-Kota. Mr.
Brezinsky has asked Henry Wrase, Maintenance Superintendent, if the
City Crews could do this work. Mr. Wrase felt that the cost would be
about the same as he would have to rent equipment to do the work.
The $600 would be part of the project cost. Mr. Searles would like about
ten yards of the extra dirt dumped in his back yard.
A motion was made by Councilman Neveaux and seconded by Councilman Kurvers
that staff be directed to procure necessary easements from Mr. Searles
to finish the yard restoration at Mr. Searles property as per the
Schoell and Madson letter of August 7, 1975, at a cost of approximately
$600. Work to be done by Minn-Kota within a month. The Council
authorizes the appropriate change order be drawn up for the project.
The following voted in favor: Mayor Klingelhutz, Councilmen Neveaux and
Kurvers. No negative votes. Motion carried.
SIGN ORDINANCE REVIEW: The following interested persons were present:
John Przymus, 405 Highland Drive
Kraig Lofquist, Naegele Outdoor Advertising
Harold Lund, Box 276, Chanhassen
Gary Brown, 1801 Koehnen Circle
Bernie Hanson, Chanhassen Lawn and Sports
Gary Petersen, 7741 Chanhassen Road
Gordon Koehnen, 6280 Audubon Circle
W. E. Redburn, 7701 Arboretum Blvd.
Norman Berglund, Bluff Creek Golf Course
Carol Berglund, Bluff Creek Golf Course
Herb Bloomberg
Ann Koltyk
Bernie Schneider
Dick Dutcher
Harry Pauly
Don Stodola
Mayor Klingelhutz asked for statements from those present to help in
evaluating the ordinance.
Bud Redburn - I am wondering if all of the summons have been actually
initiated by this office
Bruce Pankonin - The answer is no.
Norman Berglund - I am operator of Bluff Creek Golf Course. For us as a
new business it is important for people to be able to find the course.
The ordinance reads that directional signs shall bear no advertising and
shall not exceed four square feet in area. You place a sign of four
square feet off of the highway right-of-way without advertising you can't
read it. I think it's a totally unrealistic size for a directional sign
and I would recommend that in the first place that directional signs be
allowed and in the second place that the size be increased so they are of
Special Council Meeting August 11, 1975
-2-
some value. I also ask that the enforcement of the ordinance be delayed
until some resolution is made.
Herb Bloomberg - Could it be possible to work out some kind of communitYI
directional sign, a major sign. Some kind of attractive identity sign
that could be controlled. We can't let each person try to out direct th
other one. A person that wants direction is willing to look to a
degree. We have too many businesses to where we could live with a
situation where each one tried to make his sign the most important.
There are a lot of people that have a legitimate need for a directional
sign and I hope something can be done to accommodate them.
John Przymus - I still need a sign of some sort to identify my business
not only for the people driving by but for when I advertise in the
newspaper or whatever if they can identify with where I am at. You have
to have a sign to run a business of any type I would say. The barber
pole, I guess that's kind of a bad thing for you to talk about and I
would be happy to take it down providing I get something that people can
identify with me down there. Until I do I think my barber pole will have
to stay up. I definitely need more than a rustic 1811 sign sitting 50
feet off the highway. Something you can see. I would like to get a
decent sign that would say Razor's Court and when people drive by they
see Razor's Court and when I advertise, well that's where I should go.
Gordon Koehnen - The identification sign on top of my building has been
there as long as the building. We just had it repainted and renamed it.
I feel it should stay because it is part of the building. We have a
special board that is into the ground away from the building that we
use for specials everyday.
I
Gary Brown - Chanhassen is no big thriving metropolis by any means I
don't think. We have to advertise to get a buck in our places. It's
tough to make a buck in this town and we have to advertise to do it.
You have to have an identification sign no matter what you are.
Harold Lund - A sign does not affect me. I drive around with mine on
my truck. I think what these people are saying is that the Council has
got to take notice. I don't think when you're not a businessman you are
as much concerned it's human nature. I have heard a lot of complaints
about it and it's a serious thing. We are a small community. I work
in a lot of communities and see a lot of signs and if they are kept up
nice I don't see that much wrong with them. When people come for support
here they come to the businessmen. We aren't going to have business to
support us how are we going to turn around and support the people in the
community with the things they need. This is all one ballgame we have
to play it together.
Ann Koltyk - I went to
I think our town looks
anything wrong with our
see anything wrong with
be able to advertise.
Hibbing this weekend and purposely observed signs.
much better than a lot of them. I don't see
signs in this town the way they are now. I don't
the ones that have received citations they should
Herb Bloomberg - As far as signs in general we all have to realize
that you have to have regulations. If you don't you will have war
between people wanting to put a sign up. My feeling is there has to
a reasonable level somewhere that we can agree on. There is always
going to be requests for variances and always requests for special
conditions. If the machinery could be set up so that the businessmen's
be I
I
I
I
Special City Council Meetîng August 11, 1975
-3-
group could be considered a regular advisor or a screening for at least
the basic recommendation. I hope that all the business people and all
the people that own signs could be given an opportunity to get their
imput into it and hopefully most people are reasonable and most people
realize that the other fellow is going to get the same request granted
and I would hope that we can work out something that will be amiable
and will be effective and at the same time be forward looking in the
City that over the long pull will start us on the direction toward the
best handling of the problem.
Bernie Schneider - The group of businessmen or the CBD Committee should
review all requests for signs. If they would be obnoxious to the majority
of the individuals I would say that this would be a good starting point.
The sign request wouldn't get any further. I don't know what amendments
are needed for the ordinance as far as something of that nature is
concerned. You are living with your neighbor and working with your
neighbor why you are not going to approve a sign which is going to be
basically distasteful to you and the rest of the businessmen on the
street. The ordinance is definitely necessary to require that everybody
maintain their signs properly. Any sign that is in poor repair or needs
painting they should be issued a citation to correct it or tear down
the sign.
Kraig Lofquist - At this point we are prohibited in the City of Chanhassen.
The Federal Beautification Act states that outdoor advertising is a
legitimate business and as a legitimate business has a right to prosper
but also as a business has a right only to prosper in business, commercial
and industrial areas. We are asking the City of Chanhassen is that
opportunity, with restrictions, to work within the City's limitations
and build some type of signage. I would like the opportunity to sit down
with the Planning Commission or a sign committee and explore everybodys
problems. I realize the City has gone to a frontier motif with the
various buildings and I am sure they would like to stick to that. In
the frontier days one of the primary means of communication was the sign.
If we were to put boards up I would like to see that type of motif
incorporated on the boards. There are only eight locations on Highways 5,
169 and 212 that we could build on and possibly all the landowners would
not consent so you may end up with only 5.
The City Planner gave a presentation on types of directional sign malls.
He stated that the Planning Commission agrees with the intent and scope
of Ordinance 36 that advertising signs, billboards, not be allowed but
there definitely is a bridge between the advertising or directional sign
and our Ordinance 36 and they feel that the sign mall proposal maybe that
bridge.
Bud Redburn - Speaking for the Chamber, the time I have been here which
is four years we have often discussed the need for something directional
and what you are discussing now I am convinced can help to a great degree.
It still does not give individual identity. In my business which is
State Farm Insurance, I am going to have a sign that says State Farm
Insurance because that's what people are looking for. The directional
sign is great and I am not trying to say that's not necessary because I
believe it is very necessary to give direction. We have needed it very
badly in the town.
Special City Council Meeting August 11, 1975
-4-
John Przymus - I think the one thing about a lot of the signs as far as
malls go, you talk about people walking, in Chanhassen I don't think
anybody walks unless they are going from Pauly's to Jerry's or Jerry's
to Pauly's. Very seldom do you see someone walking the streets. When
you are driving by and looking for a little sign it will cause you to
run into someone quicker than if you can see a half way decent sign.
I'll take my barber pole down. I wish I never had to put it up there.
We don't have one in Brooklyn Center and we are working eight barbers.
That does to show you don't need a barber pole. We do have a sign and
that sign put two chairs on in our shop. You do need the identity.
What we get for a sign has to be realistic and reasonable. I hope you
can come to some conclusion.
I
Kraig Lofquist - As far as I know our citation expires on August 14 and
at that point legal proceedings will be taken against us. I get the
feeling hopefully that the City is looking at possibly some changes to
the Ordinance. I think it is a waste of taxpayers money and business
money by going ahead and issuing the citations by going through the court
procedure and then subsequently changing the ordinance at sometime in the
near future anyway. I would ask that somehow you can hold the citations
till you come to a firm decision on what you are going to do.
Councilman Neveaux - I have heard a lot of comments tonight and most of
them were negative. I didn't hear any really constructive suggestions
and this was what I was expecting to hear. All I got from the business
community was that we don't like the Sign Ordinance but we don't know
how we should change it so we can live with it.
Bud Redburn - The Chamber has responded and what has come out of the I
Chamber's work was pretty well watered down as a result of what Bruce
presented this evening.
Bruce Pankonin - It appears to me that Sign Ordinances are just one of
the effectuating devices that the City has at its disposal to impliment
the City Plan that the Planning Commission is working on right now. It
appears to me that it would be premature ~nd arbitrary to just go out and
change the Sign Ordinance at this time without the imput of the planning
process. It would be my recommendation that no changes be made to the
Sign Ordinance at this time until the city plan and design statement
of the city has been established and agreed to by the City Council and
develop your implimenting ordinances. I have no problem with the
Planning Commission recommendations and I think the strong part of it is
the uniform signing and the sign mall but major changes such as a
couple of free standing signs to advertise an office building, major
things like this, I don't know if you want to get into at this time. I
suggest a subcommittee of members of the Chamber of Commerce, CBD,'
Planning Commission and maybe Council be formed on the subject of a sign
mall and get cost estimates. I did price one sign 20 feet high, metal
panels, redwood standards excluding lighting, 24 double sided panels¡
silk screened letters at about $1,600 and each panel would be about
$150 more.
Councilman Neveaux asked if anyone in the audience had objections to thel
changes to the ordinance recommended by the Planning Commission January
8.
Herb Bloomberg - We have roof signs. I can understand the general
principle in not having roof signs because they want to rule out a sign
like the antique sign that was on the building that was torn down.
I
I
I
Special City Council Meeting August 11, 1975
-5-
Hopefully you can review a circumstance.
Harry Pauly - The point is that everybody is concerned with now is the
fact that if there is changes going to be considered that these violations
should be suspended at least for some length of time until the Council
comes up with something.
Norman Berglund - We were one of the group that was served. I would go
along with the sign mall. I think it is a good idea. For me it's a
good idea. In the meantime we have to have something.
A motion was made by Councilman Neveaux and seconded by Councilman Kurvers
that the Council place a 30 day moritorium on enforcement of the Sign
Ordinance specifically to the violations that have been issued. The
following voted in favor: Mayor Klingelhutz, Councilmen Neveaux and
Kurvers. No negative votes. Motion carried.
Councilman Kurvers suggested that a four member committee be set up
consisting of two Councilmen, one Planning Commission member and one
member of the CBD Committee to make recommendations to the Council and
Planning Commission. Councilman Shulstad and Councilman Kurvers were
appointed. Recommendations will be presented to the Planning Commission
by September 15 and to the Council by October 20 on the sign ordinance
and sign mall.
TEMPORARY SIGN PERMIT - HALLA NURSERY: Don Halla was present requesting
temporary directional signs at Highways 101 and 5 and 212 and 101. They
would be 4' x 8' double faced signs similar to the BluffCree~ Golf
Course signs. Mr. Halla stated they would be very happy to see a sign
mall. He would like the sign in place until November 15, 1975.
In the City Attorney's letter of August 8, 1975, he states that a
temporary directional sign would be proper. They are a total agricultural
business, all the buildings are incidental to. an agriculture operation.
The City Planner stated he had no problem with some type of temporary
sign at the two locations for a stated period of time.
A motion was made by Councilman Neveaux and seconded by Councilman Kurvers
to direct staff to issue the permit subject to conditions as far as size
of the signs, locations, advertising content, length of time the permit
is good for. The Council would likœ to see an actual drawing of the
sign at the August 18 meeting. The following voted in favor: Mayor
Klingelhutz, Councilmen Neveaux and Kurvers. No negative votes. Motion
carried.
PROJECT 75-3 GREENWOOD SHORES FEASIBILITY STUDY: Bill Brezinsky explained
the feasibility study. The public hearing on this project is August 20.
There are 84 lots in Greenwood Shores, 49 with homes and 35 are vacant
lots. The Comprehensive Sewer Plan calls for serving Greenwood Shores
through a connection to the Lake Ann Trunk Sewer. The status of the
Lake Ann Trunk is unknown at this time and because the need for sanitary
sewer and street improvement in Greenwood Shores seems to be immediate
the Engineer has looked into the possibility of serving this area
another way. This can be connected to the Carver Beach Lift Station by
a gravity line. This being a gravity line will provide lateral benefit
to the property abutting the line as well as provide trunk benefits along
with this line for a larger area. The potential is 575 units. The
Special City Council Meeting August 11, 1975
-6-
lower area in Greenwood Shores would have to be served through a lift
station on the park property and pumped into the gravity line.
The eight inch watermain would be extended along Powers Blvd. to Greenwol
Shores. They have provided an eight inch stub under Powers Blvd. to
connect in the future to Carver Beach to provide a looped system.
The roads are generally 24 to 26 feet wide and would be restored to a
26 foot width, 7 ton standards. There are a number of catch basins and
storm sewers in Greenwood Shores. Most of them outlet to the lake.
These will be replaced as a part of the project.
The total estimated cost of the project is $605,100. The lateral costs
would be spread to the benefitted properties which not only include
Greenwood Shores but also include the property abutting the connecting
line. Since the average lot frontage in Greenwood Shores is 175 feet
the Engineer felt it was reasonable to could one unit for every 175 feet
of frontage on the connecting line. This makes a total of 132 units
to be assessed at $5,952 per unit. If this project were put with the
Carver Beach project it would raise the unit price in Carver Beach by
$70 per unit.
APPLE VALLEY RED-E-MIX: Mr. John Ericson was present. The City Planner
sent a letter to Apple Valley on August 7, 1975, stating the Council's
motion of May 5 and Planning Commission recommendation of April 23, plus
statements that Mr. Ericson made. The landscape plan does not comply
with the wishes of the City Councilor Planning Commission or with
comments that Mr. Ericson made. He sent the landscape plan and bond I
back to Mr. Ericson and asked the Building Inspector to review the
structure plans submitted by Apple Valley. A Certificate of Occupancy
has not been issued.
The Building Inspector stated the building did change design somewhat
from the original plans. It was a square type building originally and
they did add the cupola on top. The construction of the building is
done but it hasn't been painted. He stated he had talked to Mr. Ericson
and in the Council minutes is said that the silos would be enclosed
but Mr. Ericson's definition of the silos is different than what the
Planning Commission and Council thought. The silos that he was talking
about are now the ones that are enclosed not the actual cement silos.
The City Planner reviewed the landscape plan. At the Council meeting on
May 5 Mr. Ericson stated IIwe have a ranch style fence running east and
west on the southern property line. This fence will be repaired and
extended to the west edge of our stock piles. II A fence is not shown on
the plan. "Evergreens will be planted starting at the southeast corner
of our property and to a point approximately 180 feet west. II The trees
shown are green ash, silver maple, lombardy popler, and russian olive.
Mr. Ericson stated they have met with landscape people and were told
that if you want the area screened the decidious trees would grow
faster than evergreens. The Planner felt the Planning Commission is
quite concerned about the additional silo that was installed and about
the surfacing of the area.
The Administrator recommended that this be sent to the Planning
Commission for their review also that a much more substantial bond be
posted to insure rapid revision of the plan as will be directed by the
next review by the Council of the plan and to insui:'ë' completion of
I
I
I
I
Special City Council Meeting August 11, 1975
-7-
landscaping and other on site facilities. A $5,000 bond be posted
immediately and when the plan for on site improvements is approved by
the Council the bond amount can be reduced to reflect the actual cost
of the improvements.
A motion was made by Councilman Neveaux and seconded by Councilman Kurvers
that a bond be posted immediately in the amount of $5,000 subject to
review at the time of return of the approved plans from the Planning
Commission and that the applicant be referred to the Planning Commission
for their recommendations as far as the landscape and screening plans
are concerned. The following voted in favor: Mayor Klingelhutz,
Councilmen Neveaux and Kurvers. No negative votes. Motion carried.
Mr. Ericson stated that the painting will be done this year and the
planting late this fall.
CETA TITLE VI FUNDING: Mrs. Theresa Erickson was present to explain the
program. Money for this program is allocated to the County. The County
has set aside money to be used in Chanhassen. There is a limit of
$10,000 per year salary plus fringe benefits. The program may be
extended beyond June 30, 1976, if the economy stays the same or doesn't
improve. The program was available August 1, 1975. The positión has
to be in addition to the present staff. The person has to be a Carver
County resident and unemployed for 30 days or underemployed. The County
is required to do County wide advertising plus put it in the Minnesota
Employment Service Job Bank. The Administrator recommended that the
area of most need is the Utility Department. ' , , ;.
A motion was made by Councilman Neveaux and seconded by Councilman Kurvers
to direct the Administrator to draft a preliminary job description for
the Utility Department for Council approval August lB. The following
voted in favor: Mayor Klingelhutz, Councilmen Neveaux and Kurvers. No
negative votes. Motion carried.
MINNEWASHTA REGIONAL PARK: -Pat Murphy, Bill Dilks, Commissioner Wayne
Roltmeier, Dick Dutcher, Vivian Beaugrand, and Pat Boyle were present.
The Planning Commission has been working on a recommendation to the
City Council that the Comprehensive Plan of the City be amended to
include a park on Lake Minnewashta. When the Planning Commission approves
their minutes on August 13 then this proposal to amend the plan will be
sent to the Metropolitan Council for their comment and review. The
City Council cannot take action until the comments from the Metropolitan
Council are received. The County Park Commission will have to go before
the County Commissioners for approval of the park plan. They would like
comments from the City Council to take to the County Commissioners.
Councilman Neveaux - I definitely am supportive of the proposal. I
think the County has done an excellent job responding to the wishes,
needs, and concerns of the citizens of the City. I am absolutely for it.
Councilman Kurvers - I think it's an awfully pretty piece of ground to
be rooted up and homes put in. It would be one of the most positive
actions that anyone can make for future generations because this type
of land there just isn't going to be anymore. With all the facts that
have been presented to me to this time I would definitely go along with
it.
Special City Council Meeting August 11, 1975
-8-
Mayor Klingelhutz - The thing that convinced me that the area being
good for Chanhassen is when I went to a few of the meetings and heard
some of the controls that would be put on it and that we would at
least have a partial say so on how it would be run and what
activities would go on there. Looking at our park plan of five or six
years ago we know we need more than Lake Ann and I think we talk about
losing tax base but actually we are gaining to if we got the
Metropolitan area to pay for some of our park land which we won't
need so much of ourselves if this park is in our area and we have
some control over it I am definitely in favor of it with the controls
I feel will be put on.
I
that
Mayor Klingelhutz had discussed this proposal with Councilman Shulstad and
stated to Mayor Klingelhutz that if the rest of the Council allows this
that Mayor Klingelhutz should vote in favor of the park in Councilman
Shulstad's name.
Councilman Neveaux, Mayor Klingelhutz, and Bruce Pankonin, City Planner,
will attend the County Commissioner's meeting Tuesday, August 12 at 9:30
a.m.
A motion was made by Councilman Neveaux and seconded by Councilman Kurvers
to adjourn. The following voted in favor: Mayor Klingelhutz,
Councilmen Neveaux and Kurvers. No negative votes. Meeting adjourned
at 12:35 a.m.
o
~~ I
Clerk-Ad6i~istrator
I
I