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1975 08 20 I I I PUBLIC HEARING SANLTARY SEWER AND WATER PROJECT 75-3 AUGUST 20, 1975, AT 7:00 P.M. Mayor Klingelhutz called the public hearing to order at 7:00 p.m. with the following members present: Councilmen Hobbs and Neveaux. Councilmen Shulstad and Kurvers were absent. The following persons were present: Harry Olson, 1241 W. 68th Street Ron Knudten, 6740 Utica Lane Jim Schluck, 6720 Utica Lane Dick Potz, 6881 Tecumseh Lane Mr. and Mrs. Bill Engebretson, 1401 Greenwood Drive Gary Laurent, 322 E. 6th, Shakopee Ed Jannusch, 5820 45th Ave. So., Minneapolis Mr. and Mrs. Karl Rollar, 6961 Shawnee Lane Jean Jarrett, 1201 Greenwood Drive Elizabeth Sweeney, 1121 Greenwood Drive Carol Watson, 1300 Greenwood Drive Mr. and Mrs. Lowell Tesch, 6920 Tecurnseh Lane L. L. Stube, 6940 Utica Lane Burt .Ackerman, 1240 West 68th Street Ed Newinski, 6820 Utica Lane Don Haarstad, 6930 Redman Lane Mr. and Mrs. Dale Gregory, 6961 Redman Lane Charlotte Daniels The Administrator read the official notice as published in the Carver County Herald. Bill Brezinsky gave the presentation. The City Engineer found it was possible to connect Greenwood Shores to the Carver Beach sewer system by gravity. The connection line would cross Powers Blvd. at Tecurnseh and go easterly to the Carver Beach lift station. The gravity connection line is sized to provide trunk sewers for Greenwood Shores and a large area west of Carver Beach and would provide lateral service for the property abutting it. Within Greenwood Shores the high area just to the west of Powers Blvd. can be served by a direct gravity line to the connection line. The lower area in the north and west along the lakeshore would have to be pumped into the gravity system. This would be done through a proposed lift station on the park property. Water service would be provided by a connection to the Carver Beach system by an 8 inch line on the west side of Powere Blvd. Also proposed is an 8 inch line jacked under Powers Blvd. and ended there. In the future it would be extended to provide a looped system. Restoration would follow the pipe laying as rapidly as possible. Improved lawn areas that were disturbed would be sodded and unimproved areas would be seeded. Streets would be restored to 7 ton standard with a combination of crushed stone, bituminous base and l~ inch wearing course. Bituminous curb would be installed where it is now and where it is needed. Catch basins and storm sewers will be restored. The total cost of the project is $605,100. The trunk sewer cost will include the lift station, force main, jacking the sewer under Powers Blvd., oversizing the ten inch line and the whole cost of the 12 inch line. All other sewer costs are considered lateral costs. The trunk sewer cost per property is set at $458 for single family home throughout the City. The lateral sewer cost is $1,534 per unit. The average lot frontage in Greenwood Shores is 175 feet. The Engineer used thiß Public Hearing Project 75-3, August 20, 1975 -2- foot~ge to aßsesß one ~nit eVery 175 feet abutting the connecting line east of Powers Blvd. This makes a total of 132 units to be assessed. The trunk watermain cost is $544 per unit. The water lateral cost and the street cost is all within Greenwood Shores. These costs would be divided among the 84 lots in Greenwood Shores for a water lateral cost of $1,534 and street and drainage cost of $1,882 per unit. The total unit cost would be $5,952. I The City's Fiscal Consultant, Mr. Ehlers, explained the financing of the project. He explained the final assessment will be adopted near the end of the project when' the whole costs are known. The project will be financed by the issuance of bonds which in turn will be paid back from these assessments as they corne in. The assessments would be adopted a year from this fall. The first installment probably would be due in 1977. Mayor Klingelhutz opened the meeting for comments. Bill Engebretson - You propose both sewer and water, is it possible to run through just sewer? Mayor Klingelhutz - The only problem on that is that we run through just sewer and tear up the streets at this time and replace them and sometime in the future if we put in water we will have to do it allover again. We would be doubling the cost of the street improvement. Carol Watson - Wouldn't the streets have to be replaced even if the sewer didn't go through? Don't we do this on our regular taxes? Mayor Klingelhutz - No. When we have a major street improvement this is then assessed against the abutting properties. If I we had a major street improvement in Greenwood Shores we would hold a public hearing like this and you would be paying for that at a separate time. Jim Schluck - It was mentioned that probably the best plan would be the Lake Ann trunk but you know how far down the pike that might be. Is there any ball park figure on that at all. Mayor Klingelhutz - I guess it was in 1971 when Lake Ann Interceptor was originally proposed to be put in Chanhassen. They transferred it to 1973 and to 1975 then to 1977 and now when the Metropolitan Development Guide Plan carne out it says after 1990. We took a strong stand on this and we have it in the guide plan now as of 1977 but with the track record of the Metropolitan Council and the Sewer Board of changing these things every year or two we don't know. Mary Tesch - If the property east of Powere Blvd. were platted would they pay now? Bill Brezinsky - They are paying one lateral assessment for every 175 feet abutting the connection line. They will be paying 48 units. Burt Ackerman - What is the acreage on the east side of Powere Blvd. I Mayor Klingelhutz - At this time there are no lots being platted. We have no plans in our office for this area. Being the sewer line is going through there we have the right to assess within 150 feet of each side of that line. That much could be served by this as a lateral benefit. I I I Public Hearing Project 75-3, August 20, 1975 -3- Jim Schluck - What is the basic cost of the lift station? It is my understanding that if we went with Lake Ann a lift station wouldn't be needed. Bill Brezinsky - That is true. There wouldn't be a lift station needed. The lift station cost is estimated at about $35,000. That is a trunk sewer cost. You pay the same trunk sewer cost $458 whether you have a lift station or not. Mayor Klingelhutz - We are almost bringing the cost down to the people in Greenwood Shores by going this route because the area between the two lakes is not a buildable area and we would be running the trunk line through an area that is not buildable and that would have to be charged against the project. Where the trunk line is running now is a buildable area and sewer charges will pay for the trunk portion of that line. Charlotte Daniels - The beach area who pays for that pipe? Why doesn't the City pay their share? Russell Larson - It would be a determination by the City Council whether or not the City receives any benefit by the park lot being served by sewer and water. It has been the policy over the years on public parks or private neighborhood parks not to assess them for sewer and water. L. L. Stube - I am wondering why this trunk line is not including the Ecklund and Swedlund property to the south of Greenwood Shores. That was platted some years ago. Mayor Klingelhutz - We have not seen that plat since the merger. Bill Brezinsky - A portion of that property would receive trunk service from the connection to this line. If they did connect to this line then they would be assessed. L. L. Stube - What is involved here is the fact that this project is designed to service a minimal number of lots on a long trunk line that's why I am bringing up the Ecklund and Swedlund thing. That's bringing up the cost as far as the trunk line is concerned. Bill Brezinsky - Greenwood Shores isn't paying any more for the connection to be made this way for trunk costs than they would the other way. Barry Brooks - There is a misunderstanding here in assuming you are paying the total cost of the project. You are not. The cost of making this a 12 inch trunk line is not directly assessed against anybody. Only the flat trunk charge per unit is charged against each property. Bill Brezinsky - These trunk charges, the sanitary sewer trunk $458, is a fixed charge that is charged every single family home in the City of Chanhassen. This assessment goes to pay for the trunk system throughout the City. The trunk system includes lift stations, force main, all of the cost of the 12 inch trunk and the difference between the 8 inch and 10 inch line. If there was no trunk sewer connection in Greenwood Shores the people would still pay $458 unit assessment. Ken Earhart - I moved out in this area strictly to have a þig lot. How come all of a sudden Greenwood Shores is found. I didn't put in a petition for sewer. No body came to my door and Public Hearing Project 75-3, August 20, 1975 -4- knocked and asked if I was interested in sewer and water. I think part of the problem we have is not going to be solved by sewer and water. I realize there are a lot of people up on the hill that have sewer problems and most of it is spring fed. There is no way that sewer and I water is going to take care of the spring fed. I am not in favor at this time but I suppose I will be when I go on the rocks and at the prices you are talking I can see where Greenwood Shores is picking up 2/3 of it. I still haven't figured out where the other 1/3 is going and who's paying for it. L. L. Stube - I think it will drive a lot of people out. Charlotte Daniels - We are already paying $110 just on our little house to live there for taxes and now there will be an assessment plus hook up costs. We can't afford it. Bill Engebretson - I am for the sewer but I am against the water. I would like to shave $2,000 off that bill. I could use the sewer. but I don It need to pay $2,000 for water when. I have a good well. Don Haarstad - I am for this project but I don't need the water. There are two months out of the year I might as well have an outhouse. I am sorry I got taken into building on that lot now I can't sell and I can't hardly live in it. Dick Potz - I am for the sewer. I think we need the sewer. In the of the year when the rain comes I think I can smell Greenwood Shores by the time I hit Carver Beach Road. This spring with the rain my back yard looked like a swimming pool. My neighbor down stream from me next door considers this a seven back up year. He has had sewage in his basement seven times. Up stream from me it's running out of the ground on my yard. We do need the sewer. I am a little bit concerned about the cost. I think that's the main problem and I don't know what to do about the cost. I think it's up to some of the Council and engineering staff and financial consultants to see if they can help us with the cost. We definitely, I feel, need a sewer. There are plenty of people out here that have sewage in their basements. spring I Councilman Neveaux - There are 84 platted lots in Greenwood Shores that consists of 49 existing dwelling and 35 vacant lots. The area to the east will be paying for 48 units. I multiplied 84 units times $6,000 which came out to $504,000. The total charge for the project is $605,000. I divided the 48 units into the remaining $100,000 and I got $2,200 a unit and I can't figure out what they are getting for the $2,200. The trunk charges on the 84 units in Greenwood Shores total $1,002. Bill Schoell - The 48 units are paying for lateral sewer only at this time. I Mayor Klingelhutz asked that written comments be sent by the September 8th meeting. A motion was made by Councilman Neveaux and seconded by Councilman Hobbs to continue the public hearing to September 8, 1975, at 8:00 p.m. ~ I I I Public Hearing Projects 75-3 and 75-4, August 20, 1975 -5- The following voted in· favor: Neveaux. No negative votes. ß/YJ~ß4~ Barry B:ZS Clerk-A~~~istrator Mayor Klingelhutz, Councilmen Hobbs and Motion carried. PUBLIC HEARING FRONTIER TRAIL STREET IMPROVEMENT PROJECT 75-4 AUGUST 20, 1975, AT 8:40 P.M. Mayor Klingelhutz called the public hearing to order with the following members present: Councilmen Neveaux and Hobbs. Councilmen Shulstad and Kurvers were absent. The following persons were present: Mr. and Mrs. Alan Fox, 7300 Laredo Drive Mr. and Mrs. Jim Morrison, 7333 Frontier Trail Mr. and Mrs. Dennis Olden, 7208 Frontier Trail Tom Kotsonas, 7338 Frontier Trail Mr. and Mrs. Paul Shidla, 7204 Kiowa Circle Mr. and Mrs. George Prieditis, 7401 Frontier Trail Bob Somers, 7409 Frontier Trail Gary Boyle, 7226 Frontier Trail John Cousins, 7307 Laredo Drive Stephen Anderson, 7218 Frontier Trail Bob Siegel, 411 Highland Drive C. H. Dimler, 7203 Kiowa Circle Harold Kerber, 7216 Frontier Trail Mr. and Mrs. Jim Thompson, 7722 Frontier Trail Gene Coulter, 7550 Great Plains Blvd. Sally deLancey, 7505 Frontier Trail Jim Waletski, 7334 Frontier Trail Ole Iverson, Chan View Mr. and Mrs. John Przymus, 405 Highland Drive Donald Smith, 500 Highland Drive Mr. and Mrs. Larry Okray, 404 Highland Drive Steve Rogers, 504 Frontier Trail R. H. Baldwin, 502 Frontier Trail Mal MacAlpine, 512 Frontier Trail Hubert Forcier, 7500 Frontier Trail Robert Scholer, 7212 Frontier Trail Lee Hjermstad, 7617 Frontier Trail Frances Jacques, 308 Chan View Larry Tivy, 7520 Frontier Trail Dorothy Bongard, 7551 Great Plains Blvd. Mary Goetze, 7610 Frontier Trail Fritz Coulter, 7616 Frontier Trail Larry Schroeder, 7720 Frontier Trail Stan Tarnowski, 7405 Frontier Trail C. Peter Linsmayer, 7421 Frontier Trail Dennis Lindholm, 7423 Frontier Trail H. A. Theiste, 7425 Frontier Trail Ralph Thrane, 7304 Laredo Drive Mr. and Mrs. Ted Wieber, 7210 Frontier Trail Thomas Hamilton, 224 Chan View Evelyn Bakke, 7200 Frontier Trail Public Hearing Project 75-4, August 20, 1975 -6- The Administrator read the official notice as published in the Carver County Herald. Bill Brezinski gave the presentation. The public hearing is being held I for two purposes. One is to determine the Carver Beach forcemain\· alignment and second is to consider the improvement of Frontier Trail. The east part of Carver Beach must be served through a lift station. Sewage from that lift station must be pumped to an 18 inch gravity sewer on The Meadows Apartments property. There has to be a forcemain connection between the lift station and The Meadows Apartments. This forcemain has to cross part of Sunrise Ridge, Sunrise Hills, and Auditor's Subdivision #2. Individual connections can't be made to the forcemain therefore the properties in Sunrise Ridge, Sunrise Hills, and Auditor's Sub. #2 receive no benefit from this line and will not bear any part of the cost. The Carver Beach feasibility report recommended that the forcemain follow the lake shore to the south end of Lotus Lake then southeasterly to connect to the 18 inch line. Frontier Trail lift station and Sunrise Hills lift station will pump into the forcemain. Because of the opposition to the forcemain route along the lakeshore the Council directed the City Engineer to investigate alternate alignments for the forcemain. The first alternative avoids the more difficult construction along the lake and uses the existing 6 inch forcemain from the Sunrise Hills lift station to Frontier Trail then an 8 inch forcemain would be installed along Frontier Trail to the Frontier Trail lift station then eastward through Lot 12 to the lake and then along the shore. This alternate would cost $9,582 more than the cost of the one originally proposed. Included in this estimate would be restoration of Frontier Trail to a condition as good or better than exists. This restoration would be consid.ered a trunl cost and would not be assessed to any of the properties. If the road were improved along this alignment to 7 ton standards this would cost $13,400 more than just restoring it to original condition. This additional cost would be assessed against property. A second alternate was considered that would avoid the lakeshore altogether. This line follows the same alignment as the first alternate to the Frontier Trail lift station and continues southward on Frontier Trail to West 77th Street then eastward to connect to the 18 inch line. The cost of this alternate would be $39,000 more than the original proposal. This cost would intlude restoration of Frontier Trail to the condition it is now. - If Frontier Trail is restored with a sealcoat it will deteriorate to the same condition it is now. For this reason the Council ordered a public hearing for the improvement of Frontier Trail. This project was considered in 1972 along with the Great Plains Blvd. improvement but was not authorized at that time. This would include upgrading the sealcoated portion of Frontier Trail to 7 ton standards. A typical section would be 28 feet wide with a 4 inch bituminous base and 2 inch bituminous wearing course. In addition certain drainage changes would be made. Frontier Trail would be lowered somewhat between Chan View and West 77th Street to keep the run off from going into the driveways. The ditch section between Chan View and west 77th Street would be built and catch basins would be raised and run off would be directly to the catch basins. The total estimated cost of the improvement is $56,295. The cost would have to be spread against the benefitting properties. If the total cost were assessed against the abutting properties this would be in accordance with the criteria that has been used before. Properties fronting or gaining access directly from Frontier Trail would be assessed for. their entire frontage. Properties adjacent to Frontier Trail but gaining access from other streets be assessed 50% I I I I I Public Hearing Project 75-4, August 20, 1975 -7- of their aþutting length. The?e would be corner lots on Frontier Trail and the~e are" some lots that gain access from Great Plains Blvd. This is the criteria that has been used before in the City on similar projects. The resulting assessment would be $10.96 for foot assessed or $986.40 for a 90 foot lot. There is another method of assessment that could be used, one that hasn't been used in Chanhassen. This would be an assessmept of a portion of the cost of improvement of Frontier Trail to property tþat doesn't abut Frontier Trail but receives some benefit from the improvement of Frontier Trail. These properties were determined by the shortest distance to the property when entering Chanhassen from the east by using Frontier Trail. The Council will have to determine what part of the cost could be assessed these properties according to benefit. If these properties for example were assessed 25% of their frontage the front foot assessment would be reduced to $8.17. The cost to a 90 foot lot abutting Frontier Trail would be reduced to $735. The City Fiscal Consultant, Mr. Ehlers, explained how this project could be financed. He proposed this be assessed over a ten year period at 8% interest. Mayor Klingelhutz opened the hearing for comments. Donald Smith - I live in Western Hills. What happens if we start improving Laredo Drive from the Post Office to the School? Would we be assessed again? Bill Brezinsky - No. If we assess this area ybu have to show where your lot would benefit from the improvement. We can't assess anything that doesn't benefit. Don Smith - The total picture of the City of Chanhassen starts with the Frontier Dinner Theatre and goes back apd according to what you are saying is that is you assess and put in streets from the E-qual Station then the people in tþe green area would be assessed again and I think that this is a question of guessing to be considered in the long run. The way that it is now the benefit stops at the yellow and the assessment begins. From a practical standpoint I never use that road primarily because it is really kind of lumpy. I think the green area was thrown in primarily as a means to pay for a road that is very limitly used now and will contipue to be limiting in the next ten years. . Russell Larson - You asked that whether if we came through down Laredo 1 Drive and put in concrete curb and gutter whether you would be assessed for that. If that is the policy of the City to assess the benefitted property, yes, you will be assessed for that. The ideas expressed here tonight are only ideas on how this road can be improved and the cost assessed. There has þeen no final decision made by the City as to how the cost of this is going to be born. Jim Morrison - The sooner we get this 7 ton road put in the better. I would suspect the traffic survey that was done that would be much more heavily used than Laredo Drive. Stan Tarnowski - Is the proposed road five ton or seven ton? ~ayor Klingelhutz - This is a seven ton road. Bill Brezinsky - It has been the policy of the City for some time to build 7 ton roads. Public Hearing Project 75-4, August 20, 1975 -8- Gene Coulter - I would gladly pay 1/2 if you would show me one little benefit I would get from Coulter's hill to get down to that road. I was already assessed $1,000 for Great PlaiTII Blvd. What benefits do I get? No way could you get down there. I am very much distrubed that 40% of the Council is not here to hear what we have to say. Russell Larson - We are approaching this thing from a theoretical basis. If the project is approved the Council would have to go out and take a look at each particular property and make a determination whether in fact it received any benefit. You will recall it came up several years ago and you asked an opinion of me whether I felt tþat you derrived any benefit from the Frontier Trail improvement as your land is now used. I advised you at that time that in my view it probably did not have any special benefit but I said however that this would be a sole judgement on the part of the Council and my opinion in no way would commit the Council. Harold Theiste - I am confused by what you mean by a 7 ton surface. I happened to be at the last hearing when you were talking to the people ~rom Greenwood Shores and you indicated a 7 ton surf.ace there with 3 inches of bituminous base and l~inches wearing course and here you are talking 4 and 2.' Bill Brezinsky - You are talking about two different things here. In Greenwood Shores we are talking about roads that have been disturbed for sewer and water construction and I once that is done they require more preparation of the sub-base and require more crushed rock particularly in this area than with Frontier Trail wþich would be simply subcut 6 inches and the undisturbed soil and the base course would be placed. Where the forcemain follows Frontier Trail there would be more crushed rock required and there would be a thicker pavement section that would have to be placed that cost would be paid for out of the trunk sewer fund. Fritz Coulter - Why this improvement does not include W.77th Street from Great Plains Blvd. east, Erie Avenue, Chan View from Frontier Trail east. These streets are in no better condition than Frontier Trail. Mayor Klingelhutz - I would have to agree with you. We did at one time have it set up in three phases. Fritz Coulter - I am still confused on the corner lot assessment. My house faces Frontier and my access is off W. 77th Street. How would I be assessed. Mayor Klingelhutz - The front of the house is the front street and W. 77th Street the side. Larry Schroeder - How do you propose to control the traffic so they won 'I be doing 75 or 80 MPH. I have been there five years and I haven't seen radar there yet. Mayor Klingelhutz - There are street signs now. There is not someone there to enforce them all the time. One way to slow them down would be to put a stop sign at the top of the hill. I I I I I I Public Hearing Project 75-4, August 20, 1975 -9- George Prieditis - Where would tne new part start on Frontier Trail? Bill Brezinsky - At Stan Tarnowski's driveway. George prieditis - A person that is using Frontier Trail going to Sunrise Ridge, how can I derrive any more benefit going down the road into my driveway than he would going down Frontier Trail to his? In 1972 when this road business cameup there were 14 homeowners on Frontier Trail that were going to be assessed for all the value of Frontier Trail. We asked to put a clicker count between 77th and Highland and there were over 300 cars that were counted daily. It showed that we weren't the only people that were driving up and down 300 times. At that time we recommended the City pay part of it. That was one of the big reasons why Frontier Trail wasn't done. It is not a road tpat serves just this area everyone in town uses it. . Mayor Klingelhutz - I would have to go on past policy what the City has done on these roads. This is the way -they have been assessed in the past. This time wé-fak~a~i06k at a new procedure and include some of the area that'does use the road and it isn't anything definite that we are going to use this type of assessment but in order for us to even think about it we have to have a public hearing. In the past it has been abutting property owners that have paid for all the improvement. Bob Scholer - I don't care whether you do the project or not. However, if you do it under the premise you are going to assess my land then I am objecting. John Cousins Do I understand that the Council is thinking of setting a policy of assessing street improvements based on an eastward approach to the City as far as deciding what is _ beneficial to the lot owners. Mayor Klingelhutz - If we were improving Laredo Drive at this time we could include an area and say well this is the most direct route from the west. Harold Theiste - Have you taken a look at what the cost would be by figuring where the sewer was going to go first and then figuring the cost of the road. Mayor Klingelhutz - We have shown that in our figures. We have shown if the sewer went all the way down Frontier Trail and out on W. 77th Street the cost of that project would cost the sewer an extra $35,000. Alternate 2 which brings the sewer down to the Frontier Trail lift station would increase the cost by $9,000. If we took the lakeshore route would be the cheapest route to go as far as the sewer goes. These extra sewer costs are taken into consideration with the restoration of the road up to its present standards. The cost put on the road is just taking into consideration if there was no sewer going in at all what it would cost to put the road in. Harold Theiste - I question whether maybe some of this project isn't being done for the convenience of the City. For example, raising it from 5 ton standards to 7 ton standards and recommending that it be done at all without knowing Public Hearing Project 75-4, August 20, 1975 -10- ~h~ther the sewer will disturb the road. Sally deLancey - We are going to be forced to start selling lots. Would it be possible to put up counters on Frontier I Trail at West 77th Street and at Highland Drive. Three of us will be paying for 1/3 of the project. We would like to keep it rural. I think the bumpy country road aspect of it is something to be considered too. Mayor Klingelhutz reminded everyone that written statements will be accepted until September 8. A motion was made by Councilman Hobbs and seconded by Councilman Neveaux to continue the public hearing to September 8 at 8:45 p.m. The following voted in favor: Mayor Klingelhutz, Councilmen Hobbs and Neveaux. No negative votes. Motion carried. ßM~. ?15~~4 Barry J? ooks Clerk- dministrator I I r