1975 09 08
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SPECIAL CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL MEETING SEPTEMBER 8, 1975
Mayor Klingelhutz called the Special Council Meeting to order at 10:00
p.m. with the following members present: Councilmen Hobbs, Neveaux,
Shulstad, and Kurvers.
DEVELOPMENT CONTRACT - LAREDO LANE ADDITION: Mr. Jim Hawks was present.
The City Staff and developer have met and agreed to an amendment to
the Development Contract. Amendment #1 was presented to the Council
for approval. Item 4 of Amendment #1, line 4 should read: ... of
temporary improvement bonds issued by the City to finance said
improvements and to mature 36 months from date of sale but not to
exceed 8% interest.
A motion was made by Councilman Shulstad and seconded by Councilman
Neveaux that the Council approve the Development Contract for Laredo
Lane Addition as amended per Amendment #1 including the changes discussed
for Items 4 and 5 and the definition of temporary improvement bonds
with maturity dates of 36 months for Item 4 and the change in Item 5
from $25,000 to $25,100. The following voted in favor: Mayor
Klingelhutz, Councilmen Hobbs, Neveaux, Shulstad, and Kurvers. No
negative votes. Motion carried.
HIGHWAY 5 AND 101 GRADING: Councilman Kurvers asked to be relieved of
his Council position during this portion of the meeting. Don Hanus
was present.
The property. is located on the east side of Great Plains Blvd., north
of Arboretum Blvd. and south of the railroad tracks. Frank Kurvers
stated he had talked to Mr. Hanus last week and was informed that Mr.
Hanus had a permit from the City to excavate dirt from the property.
The Administrator stated ~hat Jerry Schlenk had issued a permit for
Lot 227 in the amount of 6,000 yards but not for the property that is
currently being excavated just south of the railroad tracks. The
Administrator stated that grading permits on private property are
issued under the Building Code.
Mr. Hanus stated the C~ty Planner had issued him a permit. The excavation
is being done in order to build a building on the property.
Mr. Kurvers stated this is in violation of Ordinance 22, Sections 6 and
21. The drainage has been drastically changed. The roadway which
he used to get to his property is gone completely.
The City Attorney explained the agreement with the railroad regarding
the road. There was an agreement in 1898 between the railroad and the
old Village of Chanhassen whereby the railroad granted to the Village
an easement for a 30 foot roadway extending from Highway 101 to St.
Hubertus. The agreement provided that the Village could use it as a
roadway until such time as the railroad might need to use it for railway
purposes. The railroad could terminate that easement on a 30 day written
notice. The Village agreed that it would not ever take that property
by condemnation and at no time assess or charge the property with any
improvements to the road. The agreement has not been modified. He
stated that the matter of the change of grade may well be a matter of
discussion between private landowners not involving the City. The
question of excavating the road is a serious situation. There has been
no termination of the agreement. The agreement also provides that the
Village would never declare this to be a road by operation of any act
of law.
Special City Council Meeting September 8, 1975
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Mr. Hanus suggested the Council look at the site. He feels he could
not build on the land as it did exist. He had asked the Planner to
have the city Engineer study the location of a new road to fit the
new grade. He is dealing with the railroad on purchasing some of their
land.
The City Engineer stated that the City Planner has asked him that if
there is a 79th Street where should it be located. He read his report of
September 8, 1975, recommending that the road be constructed on a 50
foot width of new right-of-way immediately north of the existing private
ownership at the south side of the present railroad right-of-way so as
to give access to the Kurvers, Sinnen (owned by Hanus) and Gordon
(owned by Hanus) properties and terminating along the north side of the
Chanhassen Concrete Corporation land. The road should be built to a
9 ton standard but might be limited to a 26 foot width with no parking
permitted. He stated he did not know of the easement agreement with
the railroad when the recommendation was prepared.
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Frank Kurvers presented a plan showing a proposed street location for
West 79th Street.
The City Engineer will prepare a drawing of the proposed street for
next Monday evening. The Building Inspector and City Planner will be
present at the next Council meeting to address themselves to the
situation. The City Attorney would like some evidence from Mr. Hanus
that he has purchased a portion of the railroad propæty.
A motion was made by Councilman Hobbs and seconded by Councilman I
Neveaux that this item be tabled until next Monday night and get staff
imput necessary including advice from the City Attorney. The following
voted in favor: Mayor Klingelhutz, Councilmen Hobbs, Neveaux, and
Shulstad. No negative votes. Motion carried.
HALLA NURSERY - SIGN REVIEW: The Council had previously asked to see
the signs after issuance of sign permits. The two temporary signs are
4' x 8' double faced. The Council feels the theme to be more in keeping
with directional sign as opposed to advertising sign.
A motion was made by Councilman Shulstad and seconded
Hobbs that the signs be approved subject to rewording
Planner eliminating all but the directional content.
be removed by November 15, 1975. The following voted
Klingelhutz, Councilmen Hobbs, Neveaux, Shulstad, and
negative votes. Motion carried.
by Councilman
by the City.
The signs are to
in favor: Mayor
Kurvers. No
TWO-WAY RADIOS: The Administrator has met with a representative of
Home Insurance Company and the City may get reimbursement for the radios
that were taken from the City Trucks.
BUDGET: Mayor Klingelhutz will schedule a meeting to discuss the
proposed budget.
SECRETARY/ACCOUNT CLERK: The Administrator recommended the Council
hire Joan Heinz to fill this position.
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A motion was made by Councilman Shulstad and seconded by Councilman
Neveaux that the City Administrator be authorized to hire Mrs. Joan
Heinz to fill the vacancy. The following voted in favor: Mayor
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Special City Council Meeting September 8, 1975
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Klingelhutz, Councilmen Hobbs, Neveaux, Shulstad, and Kurvers. No
negative votes. Motion carried.
A motion was made by Councilman Shulstad and seconded by Councilman
Kurvers to adjourn. The following voted in favor: Mayor Klingelhutz,
Councilmen Hobbs, Neveaux, Shulstad, and Kurvers. No negative votes.
Meeting adjourned at 12:15 a.m.
¡:j~/¿/I-?1 (Pzéll ~
Barry B;%kS
Clerk-A~inistrator
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CONTINUATION OF PUBLIC HEARING
GREENWOOD SHORES SANITARY SEWER AND WATER PROJECT. 75-3
SEPTEMBER 8, 1975, AT 8:00 P.M.
Mayor Klingelhutz called the continuation of the public hearing to order
with the following members present: Councilmen Hobbs, Neveaux, Shulstad,
and Kurvers. Approximately 30 persons were present.
Mayor Klingelhutz and Councilman Neveaux read correspondence for and
against the proposal from residents of Greenwood Shores. A statement
was read from the Greenwood Shores Association that they had conducted
a telephone poll on the proposal, 25 were in favor of the proposal,
one favor sewer only, 12 were against the project and ten were undecided.
A question was raised regarding homes being built in Greenwood Shores
that do not meet the size specified in the covenants. The City Attorney
stated the City should relate the building permits to the covenants.
The Administrator stated the Building Inspector is aware of the covenants
and does require additional setbacks and other things that are beyond
the scope of the City Ordinance. He also stated the problem with the
streets is beyond the maintenance problem. This is a matter of
reconstruction. The feasibility study does reflect reconstruction to
a 7 ton standard. The City Engineer stated that soil borings have been
taken and they feel there is an adequate amount of rock in the estimate
to give a permanent good street that will not have excessive maintenance.
Scott Reinertson - Has the property east of Powers Blvd. been platted
and if so can they be subdivided?
Mayor Klingelhutz - I don't believe the land east of Powers Blvd. has
ever been platted.
Scott Reinertson - You mentioned the sealcoating of the cul-de-sac
where the unoccupied houses. I would just like to
say that at the point that was last done it must be
four years ago. We have been in our house six years
now and at the time they came to the top of the
hill and stopped sealcoating in the other cul-de-sac
where we live. Nothing has been done to that street
since that time.
Bill Brezinsky - The property east of Powers Blvd. has not been platted
and we know of no plans to do so at this time. We
suggested that because the average frontage in Greenwood
Shores is 175 feet that one way the property east of
Powers Blvd. could be assessed would be one unit for
each 175 feet along the connection line. There is no
plat available and we don't know if the line is placed
. so the property could take advantage of it. They would
have to run a road all along the connecting line to be
able to achieve a lot every 100 feet and that's
another reason we think that to go to larger frontage
175 feet would be reasonable.
Scott Reinertson - If they go to 100 foot lots is the line large enough
to handle it or will the line have to be replaced?
Bill Brezinsky - It will be large enough. Greenwood Shores benefits
by having this line included in this project. If you
were to take Greenwood Shores alone without this
connecting line the unit cost in Greenwood Shores would
be about $440 higher. It would be around $6,400.
The reason is that the sewer costs are divided into
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Continuation of Public Hearing, September 8, 1975
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lateral and trunk charges. The trunk charges include
oversizing a line above 8 inches, also the entire cost
of a 12 inch or larger line. The total lateral cost
on the east side of Powers Blvd. is $36,000.
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Ken Earhart - I will go along with it if each one of you will write in
black and white that if for every $5,000 we pick up on
this will go back into our pocket. I would like to have
$450 or $1,000 back if possible. If I was the subdivider
of that property I would put as many lots as I could along
the connecting line.
Councilman Shulstad - Let's say that sewer line was constructed and
subsequently along the lines of what you are
suggesting dòes happen. Would the City be in a
position to go back and reassess the project given
different units of measurement?
Russell Larson - If within the period of the repayment of the bonds
you can go back and reassess. How it works is that
7 or 10 years down the pike you look at your assessment
roll a~d match that against the maturities and you can
reduce the assessments.
Councilman Neveaux - If we are talking about the fact that we don't
expect the developer to pmt that land with 175
foot lots and in fact our City Ordinances call for
90 foot frontages isn't perhaps a figure closer to
the 90 foot frontage more realistic than 175 and I
isn't it also better to be bargaining with a
developer to perhaps give him credit than try to
assess him for more.
Barry Brooks - If you go in there and put a layout on that piece of
property plus every block take out 60 feet for a road
you are not going to get that many more units. You probably
aren't going to get anymore units.
Bill Schoell - The route that that trunk sewer take through there is
not a logical street route. The person that owns it
owns a somewhat rectangular tract of land and if he
were to build a street merely because there was a sewer
there he would use lots in a lot of places and also the
other properties that he had would be back about 300 feet.
We presume rather than put so many unit assessments on
that particular property that you will take 48 assessments
times the sanitary sewer lateral cost and put that total
lump sum assessment on that property. That total will
be added to whatever that fellow pays for lateral sewers
in that particular tract and then redivided back against
however many lots he has.
Bill Engebretson - I am President of the Greenwood Shores Association
and I would like to elaborate on the survey we took. I
The house count which you gave we have 50 homes
with residents living in them and two of these we
were unable to contact. One of the prime concerns
we ran into when telephoning is the cost of it.
If we didn't have to pay for it we would be 100%
in favor of it. Whatever the City Council and Engineers
can do to reduce the figure would help.
continuation of Public Hearing September 8, 1975
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Mayor Klingelhutz - If this development had come in with 90 foot lots I
am sure we could shave off some of the cost. They
are big lots and your covenants say they can't be
subdivided so there is not much we can do with
that portion of it.
The Council will make a decision on the project September 15 at 8:30 p.m.
A motion was made by Councilman Hobbs and seconded by Councilman Shulstad
to adjourn the public hearing. The following voted in favor: Mayor
Klingelhutz, Councilmen Hobbs, Neveaux, Shulstad, and Kurvers. No
negative votes. Hearing adjourned at 9:20 p.m.
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Barry Btooks
Clerk-Administrator
CONTINUATION OF PUBLIC HEARING
FRONTIER TRAIL STREET IMPROVEMENT PROJECT 75-4
SEPTEMBER 8, 1975, AT 9:25 P.M.
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Mayor Klingelhutz called the continuation of the public hearing to
order with the following members present: Councilmen Hobbs, Neveaux,
Shulstad, and Kurvers. The following persons were present:
Mr. and Mrs. Ted deLancey, 7505 Frontier Trail
Alan Fox, 7300 Laredo Drive
Robert Scholer, 7212 Frontier Trail
Larry Schroeder, 7720 Frontier Trail
James Thompson, 7722 Frontier Trail
Mr. and Mrs. George Prieditis, 7401 Frontier Trail
Arlene Theiste, 7425 Frontier Trail
Mary Schuminski, Kiowa Circle
C. Peter Linsmayer, 7421 Frontier Trail
Stan Tarnowski, 7405 Frontier Trail
Larry Tivy, 7520 Frontier Trail
Dorothy Bongard, 7551 Great Plains Blvd.
Hubert Forcier, 7500 Frontier Trail
Leanna Forcier, 7500 Frontier Trail
Frederick Coulter, 7616 Frontier Trail
Gene Coulter, 7550 Great Plains Blvd.
Several letters were received this evening. The Council will study them
before making a decision.
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Fred Coulter - I just have a question as to what the feasibility is of
getting any type of financial aid in up-grading this road.
Mayor Klingelhutz - We have tried so many'different times to get some
financial aid for Chanhassen but we have always
come to a 'dead end. We can't promise you anything on
. that.
Bill Schoell - We have a program of municipal state aid which comes to
streets to a certain street pattern. The problem in
those streets is they have to connect state highways
and county roads'or two county roads. This street goes
from a neighborhood to a state highway and one end would
satisfy the criterian but it doesn't at the other end.
continuation of Public Hearing, September 8, 1975
Councilman Shulstad - From the written data I don't see any support
whatsoever for the original proposal as to where
the line might go. Was that fact the case or is I
there support for that being the least expensive
alternative.
Bill Schoell - The least expensive in our report did not include the
cost of securing easements along the lake shore and I
think if you include the costs of the easements that it
materially changed the relative economics of it more
nearly in favor of going by the route of the road.
Not entirely but it made them much more nearly equal.
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Mayor Klingelhutz - Have there been any streets improved on sewer projects
less than 28 feet.
Bill Brezinsky - Yes, in some areas where there were very narrow existing
streets heavily wooded on either side of the street.
In the Murray Hill area the streets were on 16 feet
wide and restored about the same. Wherever it was
possible we have been restoring them to 28 foot width.
Councilman Neveaux - If we are going to put the pipe down Frontier Trail
which it appears we are leaning toward that option,
now would be the time to consider up-grading the
street. Now whether we are going to upgrade it
to other than what it is now, to 22 foot or 28 foot,
5 ton or 7 ton, I guess these are the options.
Gene Coulter - We talked about a counter at the last meeting. We
would like to know how many cars continue on through I
then we would know where the benefit is.
Russell Larson - While it is important to talk to a certain extent about
how the project is going to be paid for. The issue
before the Council at this time is whether or not the
road should be improved since you may tear it up for
the Carver Beach forcemain. The question of how it
is to be paid for would come up in the assessment
hearing after the work is done. If you decide to go
ahead with this project I would certainly recommend
you set down counters and take a good test of what
the traffic count shows. That may give you a guide
as to how this thing should be assessed.
Mayor Klingelhutz - How much cheaper per foot would it be to build the
road four or six feet narrower. Would there be any
tree removal for a 28 foot road?
Bill Brezinsky - It would be proportionately cheaper. There would be
no tree removal.
Stan Tarnowski What is the width of the streets in Sunrise Hills?
Bill Brezinsky - The streets in Sunrise Hills are 24 feet wide.
Mayor Klingelhutz - Have any of the lots in green been assessed for
Laredo? I
Russell Larson - No, only insofar as Laredo has been improved within
Sunrise Hills.
Bob Scholer - I don't think that there has ever been any direct assessmen~
outside the green area for Laredo other than the general
project for building the street. I don't know any direct
assessment for Laredo or for any other entrance. I think
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Continuation of Public Hearing, September 8, 1975
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that the precedent has been that any plat that SU}?}?Orts
a developer creating the plat is entitled to hook onto a
public street or he doesn't get approval on his plat.
I think that is the position that Sunrise Hills should
take or that is the position I would take.
Russell Larson - I was thinking of the fact that within Sunrise Hills
itself we paid for the street improvement. When the
City put sewer and water in there back in 1967 that
street was all redone. It was part of our assessment.
Councilman Kurvers - How much City right-of-way do we have from West
78th street going north to Highland Drive.
Bill Brezinsky - There is a 60 foot right-of-way. We do not believe
that it would be necessary to take any trees to inståll
a 28 foot mat.
Mayor Klingelhutz - Being Frontier Trail in Sunrise Hills is only 24
feet it would seem foolish to me to make it 28 feet
all the way back there.
Ted deLancey - I would like to challenge the Engineer in that you have
a road bed on 20 feet which has been built up over 25
years of fill and grading and you have 8 feet which
nothing has been done to. It would seem not logical to
me that it's going to be proportionately reduced. How
much of Frontier Trail is being torn up due to the force-
main and how much are you proposing to repair or improve?
Bill Brezinsky - We have not done an exact study as to how much the
actual difference would be. The least expensive route
would run along the lake and would not tear up any of
Frontier Trail. One alternate would go to Sunrise
Hills Beach Lift Station and then would follow the
existing 6 inch line up the hill ~nd then Frontier Trail
down to a point where the Frontier Trail Lift Station
is and then go along Lot 12 down to the lake. A
second alternate would follow Frontier Trail to West
77th Street and then east. It would depend what route
was chosen as to how much of Frontier Trail would be
torn up.
Ted deLancey - Have we done our homework? Do we really need this type
of upgrading for this type of condition? We have to
study the need first and how much is that need and to
what extent it goes. I think that approach should be
taken before we even get to the assessment situation is
what is really needed to do the job and what type of
requirements are required on it.
Mayor Klingelhutz - It is a high maintenance road. I see a lot of big
black patches put on every year. Tons and tons of
blacktop. It takes time and dollars to put on there
and the same thing happens the next spring.
Everybody in the is helping pay for that. At the
present time we haven't got many öf these problem
roads left and we feel we should do something about
it.
Ted deLancey - One of the questions asked in Sally's letter was what the
maintenance has been over the past ten years and what it
would be over the next ten years at present conditions.
Continuation of Public Hearing, September 8, 1975
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That is the crux of the matter.
Leanna Forcier - I would like to propose another possibility for redUCingl
maintenance expense without upgrading and that is
since there is an access to Sunrise Hills that it would
be possible to restrict travel on a portion of Frontier
Trail to only those few people that absolutely need
to use it.
Mayor Klingelhutz - It would no longer be a public street and we would
quit maintaining it.
Sally deLancey - I am concerned with the drainage. I don't feel it has
been studied enough that we understand it well enough
as to what is going to happen on Frontier Trail if you
do go ahead.
Mayor Klingelhutz - According to statements made last time there will
be curb on it and the water will drain down the
street rather than along the street. In order to
absolutely convince you we are going to have to
go into a storm sewer project.
Peter Linsmayer -
Up to this point we have been talking about all of
this drainage of water. Has the Council done anymore
about the improvement of Lot 12?
- We have had no discussion on it up to this time.
If this road should go in which is then going to
concentrate the water which would come down Frontier
Trail isn't this then goint to accentuate the problem I
that we have got with Lot 12 and the ditch area
going out to the lake?
- I don't think it would accentuate it very much because
you have blacktop street now and the water does
run off it might not run off much in the same place
but it does gather quite rapidly in the ditches and
run down there anyway.
Mayor Klingelhutz
Peter Linsmayer -
Mayor Klingelhutz
Councilman Shulstad - I am referring to the letter dated September 4
from a dozen plus individuals concerning Lot 12,
have the engineers had a chance to review that
letter? Do the conditions outlined in this letter,
I would like the reaction of the engineers whether
they are reasonable conmtions and expectations.
Bill Brezinsky - Yes, they are reasonable.
Ted deLancey - I assume that you will have the opportunity in the future
to study the questions that we have submitted and that
we will be able to get in writing an answer to the
questions that you deem reasonable.
The City Engineer will prepare a report for the Council on the costs of
a 20, 22, 24, and 26 foot road. Bill Schoell recommended that the
Council not consider anything less than a 26 foot road because of the
safety involved with driveways.
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A motion was made by Councilman Neveaux and seconded by Councilman Hobbs
to adjourn the public hearing. A decision will be made at the Council
meeting September 15 at 9:00 p.m. The following voted in favor: Mayor
Klingelhutz, Councilmen Hobbs, Neveaux, Shulstad, and Kurvers. No
negative votes. Public hearing adjourned at 10:00 p.m.