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1h Minutes CC/3/27/00 .: ~ -< - . " . ' ." .- .1.~' \ '. , ',.." ···~,Á> "~~J.- '. '.' . .,. . ' .. ,^ .' ~ " '~"',"'" ' ".' ;". ' . CilANaASSENctt:YêOuN€1L . ~ ",' ,,,,,,;,,,;,,,, ../',' : '^..' . ~ REGtJI:.An;",u,ETlNG· ,~.. , MÁRCB 27'2IÏoO',': ' ' , ,,' ~:_,;.. >"", , '.:' . , , . . ;"'"'.~i· - ," ',. C¿~ÌI~itinanSerÌÎI;Š~~h~µdòèS tlí~ 6(¡'dáys.~; , ' . , '<.~: , ,",' ,', . . " ' . . s~ Botche.r:. I thi~kifs ~eip,t ?fthe l.ett«!b,utJt./i1i~t..~~;~~~e'~~è~¢.I~k~~;;nl.:eh~ck ònthat, brit· at th.ls poin~ We:reqka:y.Bottom hne on the eglslatløniJ~st ~o .ge'l\aö~,l!I1d;ä.iftx;.weare. I,nto the Senate , OmnibusTàX Bill. ;Wè'rë not ht the HoJSe i311i;' Irecieìv?d 1iCalff<KIÍlý:ff9in:~~J¡ox Wê'fiüir.be, gõing back, ' down to testify à~.~att)Oi~t. I.J~t.itjS in theS~nati;:]}iI[ . '.,' ~";\':"<\\f\;/':' ' ,. ". . MåyoiM~èíno:;.Oka:y.'tha¡¡k ý~ui . , ,_, - ...., I ,'~ .' '.. . :- " _ ~.": ~ .:,:""; ,"._" ",', '.: "';' " .:: ',' :,'.' ':' ··,;'ì"; ;'~~?/';,',,<,.'(:-:'~";::""'';<: ",;';,: "~"::' .:, ~ \\ ".:,,< ' ,".- : ",' ' ,:: ~~ :..L: >' '-:;.' ,"~~~\::;,::.~ ~;;,',}::>_.. "j~:.~ ~:.,'<, ,«i ¡;, ~ "', . j .", , C/)un~ilmanSéIÍ~ t)loved,~ollnCil~n Engel séeonde~ ~tQ\iÌ'~~):~1,~itàgéi\dÍl ~¡Jfeíí\Ìl1ted; An voted III favôr and. the motion earned. .' <. .. " .., ." " " . ' '- ~ " ' -' _ ,"'_. f ,....;' .. PUBUCANNO'UNCÈMENTS: Nònè~.. ,~ ~ . ',', ,'. .1::.;·/-,".'--,::,: .~; /':,- ''-:::':":-~~~,.::? ':~'.: ~':" ':' ;>/-;" . ',- " ':,::, ' .; ,:~/-_.,/< .~: ~ 1~' ',;: ,~~'>r~>,":':'~~' ~,:: ,:.~, ~,:,;'.., \ '-1'" ::, '. .'<"..... ',' .., -; ',,' ,CONSE1\I'I! AGENDA:. CòiíocilÌllan ~ííD moved¡ êÒlÍnèllbí1IJt'Látii.~ ~ðiiåè¡H¡¡'Iì~prove. tIie · rono~ingCOÌIseÍ1t Agèiídå items pUrSuånt tóthè éìtÇ Mìi'p¡;g~t'íiCre~6;UmèdÌf¡'tiij~£" . . ~ "".' '.'. ":>;.':.:~,"':".','-'..-">~:...,.,,'.." .. ::,,' .,-,::'":\:,>:~<;;:'(,':',,.:>',":-:-:'::>' ,.~~:,,:,.":>.> ".' ,\. a. Approvcc<mtraéÌfor RÓimdhouse Renovation; ollI'Ý Hiitlè;' ArêlÌitécf: . ., ., - '. ',' ~, -', ,', " , '" - .,~.. ~ ' c. Approval of 2000/0 I Liquo~ Licenses. .- "; .',,'., . - ". . , ' , " " ,;;" '".:'. . , ...!<',-' , '. . . ' , ", ,". , ..' , . VISlTORÐÌU:SENTATION: .None. -. >")","i:":'::':" -', ", " 2~ Ci~ Council Meeting - March 27, 2000 PUBLIC SAFETY UPDATE: PROJECT LEADFOOT. Sgt. Dave Potts and Beth Hoiseth went over the details of Project Leadfoot with the Council. Mayor Mancino: Any questions from council members? Councilwoman Jansen: It really looks like a great program. Thank you for getting it all pulled together... I have one question and it was early on when you were speaking about the different ways of actually evaluating the problem areas and hearing the complaints from the residents and evaluating what's going on. Do you have a mechanism in place where you might detect the problem before the complaints start to come in as far as seeing that you've got, you know the speeders in a particular area of the ci~. Sgt. Dave Potts answered Councilwoman Jansen's question. Councilwoman Jansen: And maybe as the other neighborhoods become aware that now there's this new program in place, because probably the Villager getting the word out on what happens on Pleasant View Road. They'll now know that they have something they can come to the ci~ and actually... for that. Mayor Mancino: .. .you've got a three pronged approach here which is so wonderful and Steve has been diligent and just has carried this all the way through so. Steve Beddor got up and spoke to the ci~ Council. Mayor Mancino: And is the first meeting April 6th. Is that at your home? So we'll get some feedback on how that goes. And this is kind of a test right of the pilot so we'll see how it goes and then make, fine tune it after that. ...And we really won't, I mean was it last June when the residents of Pleasant View came and talked to the ci~ Council. We really don't...not that we're trying to get out ofit. But so we can be proactive and they will come directly to you. It doesn't have to come to the ci~ Council. ... We love giving it over to you, right. Thank you. Thank you so much. And you'll keep us kind of updated on how it's going? Wonderful, thank you. Did anybody else here want to say anything about Project Leadfoot? Any other comments as long as you've heard it for the first time. Bud, do you want to say anything about Project Leadfoot? Bud Olson addressed the ci~ Council stating that this project was one of a first of it's kind in the State of Minnesota and congratulated Sgt. Potts, Beth Hoiseth and Steve Beddor for their work on it. Mayor Mancino: Thank you. Now the logo was one of the residents. And who was that Steve, if you don't mind. Steve Beddor gave the name of the resident who designed the logo for Project Leadfoot. Mayor Mancino: Thank you so much. Next on the agenda is public hearings. APPROVE RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE SUBMISSION OF AN OUTDOOR RECREATION GRANT TO THE MINNESOTA DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES FOR FUNDING ASSISTANCE FOR LAND ACOUlSITION AND PARK IMPROVEMENTS FOR PARK. RECREATION & OPEN SPACE PURPOSES. 3 cio/ Council Meeting - March 27, 2000 Todd Hoffinan: Mayor and cio/ Council members and the audience. One of my goals each year is to make application for various grants... However the funding pool for grants cycle this year are extraordinarily low, but in the name of optimism I'm proposing two applications. I'm working with Mr. Loren Gordon who is a resident of our communio/ and works for Hoisington-Koegler... The projects that were selected met two criteria. They are identified in the cio/'s capital plan, or in our comprehensive plan that we're talking about doing anyway, and we reviewed the past recipients and selected the project types which scored high... The grants do require a 50% cio/ cost share... The first project was the Bandimere Park project for development of a park shelter to include concessions, restrooms, picnic room availàhle for public reservation and utilio/ room. And then the addition of a playground. Secondly we proposed open space acquisition within the Bluff Creek corridor...two separate grant applications... The total cost of the projects are $310,000 and $150,000 respectively, with the grant request of half those amounts for $155,000 for Bandimere and $75,000 for Bluff Creek. The recommendation to the Council is that the cio/ Council approve the attached resolution authorizing the submission of an Outdoor Recreation Grant to the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources for Funding Assistance for Land Acquisition for park improvements for park and recreation and open space purposes. The public hearing.. . Mayor Mancino: Okay, thank you. Jim, do you want to say anything about it? Okay. This is a public hearing. Does anyone wish to address the Council on this issue? Scott Botcher: The question I have Todd is where in the capital plan are these projects now? Todd Hoffinan: You mean what year? Scott Botcher: Yes. Todd Hoffman: In the 5 year plan for Bandimere, both of them are down the road a ways. Scott Botcher: So we'd be accelerating those... Todd Hoffinan: And the reason we selected those are because they scored high... Mayor Mancino: And the Luigi Bernardi piece, is that just south of the Degler property? Todd Hoffman: Yes. It's a large parcel. The site that we've identified... They're in Fund 410. It's identified as... Mayor Mancino: When will we find out? Todd Hoffinan: Next year. Mayor Mancino: Next year when? Todd Hoffman: The grant cycle for 2000 is over this spring... Mayor Mancino: ... Thank you. Again I didn't see anyone wishing to address the council so let's, any other discussion on this that council members have? I know that the Park and Rec Commission has always in their philosophy wanted to, Gr made sure that Park and Rec Department go for any grants, any matching funds or whatever to have Todd and Jerry and his staff kind oflook at that all the time for 4 City Council Meeting - March 27, 2000 revenue to acquire open space or to help in our active fields, etc. So I'm glad you found this. May I have a motion please. Councilwoman Jansen: Move approvaL Councilman Engel: I'll second it. Resolution #2000-26: Councilwoman Jansen moved, Councilman Engel seconded that the City Council approve the attached resolution authorizing the submission of an Outdoor Recreation Grant to the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources for Funding Assistance for Land Acquisition and Park Improvements for Park, Recreation and Open Space Purposes. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. REMAND MARSH GLEN PROJECT TO PLANNING COMMISSION. Cindy Kirchoff: Thank you. On March )3th you'tabled the Marsh Glen proposal for 60 days... Since that time the applicant has... Thank you. Mayor Mancino: And fees will be waived... Kate Aanenson: Yes... Mayor Mancino: Does the applicant want to say anything? You're here tonight. I mean you don't have to. but if you'd like to hecause you're here. You know we don't want you to come and not have an opportunity to speak. Thank you. Any discussion? Any questions from council members? Then may I have a motion? Councilman Senn moved, Councilman Engel seconded to remand the Marsh Glen project to the Planning Commission for review contingent upon the applicant giving a 60 day extension. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. CONSIDER REOUEST FROM CHANHASSEN ATHLETIC ASSOCIATION ADVERTISEMENT SIGNS. BANDIMERE PARK. Todd Hoffman: Thank you Mayor Mancino, members of the City CounciL The 2000-2004 capital improvement program designates a $60,000 creative playground project for Bandimere Park. The plan, at least as it is now, is thatthe City contribute half of that and the other half would be...chanhassen Athletic Association, chan/chaska Soccer Club, and the Tonka United Soccer Association. The response... The chanhassen Athletic Association, Frank Scott is here...Frank Scott discussed this proposal with the Park and Recreation Commission at their February 22nd meeting. The commission was supportive of the proposaL However, they did not take a vote on it... I have had discussions with the City Attorney's office... Mayor Mancino: Just one question I have before they do. Now with this proposal, does that mean that the City does not contribute the $30,OOO? That they are through this they will generate enough funds to pay for the $60,000 creative playground project so the City does not have to pay. Todd Hoffman: ... When I asked the Association, what they're proposing as a city is that. ..send out three letters to each... 5 City Council Meeting - March 27, 2000 Mayor Mancino: And what is...that's when we buy the playground? Todd Hoffman: ... That question is going to come back... Mayor Mancino: Thank you. Another question Todd. Councilman Senn asked a question. Mayor Mancino: It won't be tied to any sort of advertising revenue. Councilman Senn made a comment regarding this item. Todd Hoffinan: ...use of ball fields, soccer fields... Councilwoman Jansen: When we say cost sharing, the cost of the signs or maintaining the new signs? Mayor Mancino: Any other questions? Thank you. Mr. Scott. Frank Scott: I'm Frank Scott. I'm !Tom the chanhassen Athletic Association. I'll just start with... we're a non-profit organization... We don't have a very good.... We operate like a business that... Mayor Mancino: Any questions for Frank? Okay, thank you. Jim Manders !Tom the Park and Recreation Commission spoke ahout the commission's position on this item. Mayor Mancino: Jim did you, in thinking about this, with this project, did you as a commission set up any criteria for the, if somebody else came in.. .did you kind of talk about it comprehensively in the city? Jim Manders: Certainly there were questions asked regarding... how that would be taken care of... sort of wait and see. To address your question about discussion, I don't recall that we got around... Mayor Mancino: Thank you. Is there anyone here tonight, I mean this isn't really a public hearing, buy anybody who would like to...offer their two cents in. Okay, bring it back to council. Any discussion? Councilman Labatt made a comment supporting this project. Councilman Engel supported the project also but would like to see confonnity in the signage. Councilwoman Jansen: I agree. I think it actually could add some character. The one thing I did forget to ask, it's a short period oftime that these go up for just the season, correct? May through, what was the end? Kate Aanenson: October. Councilwoman Jansen: So as you were to take policy together, you would also maybe address... because I did like the idea of drafting a policy... Mayor Mancino: Okay, Councilman Senn. 6 Cio/ Council Meeting - March 27, 2000 Councilman Senn gave his comments on this item. Mayor Mancino: I have some concerns about it. Some of my concerns from... standpoint. Older neighborhoods who have lived there for a long time adjacent to it and have... I also have concerns policy wise at the other parks and what...so I'djust like to see Park and Rec Commission think about that...so that could be part of the policy that... With that may I have a motion? Councilman Engel: Move approval. Councilwoman Jansen: Do we want to...a little bit, do you want a friendly amendment since you moved approval? Councilman Engel: Sure. Councilwoman Jansen: Can we add after Chan Athletic Association and draft a policy for the provisions of the ballfield fence sign fundraising program. Add to that the notification to the neighborhood as it goes back to the Park and Rec.. .and draft a policy. Mayor Mancino: Yeah I was going to say that I think the neighborhood should have a public hearing. Councilwoman Jansen: ...and draft policy. Then the neighbors have something to come in and comment on. Mayor Mancino: Because why would you want to do a contract. Councilman Labatt made a comment at this point in the discussion. Mayor Mancino: ...kind of parallel track doing the policy... policy and presenting it to the Park and Rec Commission at their next meeting and... And when does the ball season start? Is there any way that you could have a special Park and Rec Commission meeting at the beginning of April versus at the end of April? Change the time. Would that be a problem for you? Todd Hoffman stated that could be done. Mayor Mancino: I want to make sure that you understand what's being said and you feel that it can be done. ...and also into the Springfield Addition. The Lundgren development. Yeah, all the residents around there. Lake Riley Boulevard and etc. Yeah, use the operative word here. Todd Hoffman made a statement at this point. Mayor Mancino: ...go Mead and probably at the same time Frank can kind of go out and start talking, spreading the word with people. Now do we need to say anything about, the only thing, the other thing that I heard council people say was the uniformio/ of size of the signs, etc. Just taking that back to the Park and Rec Commission. Now, Councilman Engel do you accept this friendly amendment? Councilman Engel: Well I think it'd be better to repeat. How's that? Mayor Mancino: That would be wonderful. Councilman Engel: And maybe we don't need to... 7 Ci~ Council Meeting - March 27, 2000 Mayor Mancino: So we have a new motion. Councilman Engel: I authorize staff to negotiate a contract with the Chanhassen Athletic Association for the provision of a ballfield fence sign fundraising program at Bandimere Park and to notify neighbors abutting the park and to draft a policy for installing and storing signage. Councilwoman Jansen: Second. Conncilman Engel moved, Councilwoman Jansen seconded that the Ci~ Council authorize staff to negotiate a contract with the Chanhassen Athletic Association for the provision of a ballfield fence sign filndraising program at Bandimere Park, to notify the neighbors abutting Bandimere Park, and to draft a policy regarding the installation and storing of the signs. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. APPEAL DECISION OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION FOR A VARIANCE FROM THE 5 FOOT BLUFF SETBACK FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF AN ADDITION. 7501 ERIE AVENUE. DENNIS FISHER. Cindy Kirchoff: Thank you. The applicant is requesting a variance from the 5 foot bluff protection setback for the construction of a garage... On March 15th ofthis year the Planning Commission reviewed the design and variance request. The applicant has appealed that decision. The existing home is located... Staff does not support the variance... However should the Council approve the request, staff has prepared conditions... Mayor Mancino: Thank you very much. Any questions for staff at this point? Councilwoman Jansen: No. Mayor Mancino: I have one and that is, will the increase of the impervious surface by adding the three car garage, will it cause any further erosion of the bluff as you're adding more water going down? Cindy Kirchoff: No... Mayor Mancino: Is the applicant here and would you like to address the council. Please state your name and address. Dennis Fisher: Thank you. My name is Dennis Fisher. I live at, will be living at 7501 Erie Avenue. Thank you for letting me appeal this. I guess I just want to say I wholeheartedly agree with the ordinance. Certainly want to protect the bluff line and want to ensure that no further damage is done to it. I guess we wanted to look at the intent of the ordinance which is just to protect the bluff line from development and water runoff towards the lake. What we're asking for is a caveat to the existing ordinance as to older homes that are presently on the bluff... The last meeting that we had, the comment was made about regarding the existing driveway and it's just my opinion that this would exacerbate the steepness of the driveway. It is, the present drive is 10 feet below the existing cul-de-sac and with snow on it and, Ijust love to snow however. When you can't get out and do that, the driveway is very steep and this would also require the regarding of it to make it even that much more... The other statement was made about not confonning. This is a very distinctive home and I don't know what could be made more. It's just a very distinctive home. We'd like to spend our own dollars and make this acceptable to the neighborhood and I believe it would improve rather than cause any further damage to the hluff line. 8 City Council Meeting - March 27, 2000 Certainly it would protect the home and the present condition, the home is in dire situation. Water, back water flow against the foundations are causing it to erode. I think you've all seen it so I think anything else I would say would be redundant but do you have any questions? Mayor Mancino: Any questions for the applicant? Councilwoman Jansen: No. Mayor Mancino: Thank you very much. Bringing this back to council. Councilman Senn. Councilman Senn made his comments on this request. Mayor Mancino: You mean not add any more impervious surface? Councilman Senn responded to Mayor Mancino's question. Mayor Mancino: Which makes me bring up, Cindy did you say that if we decide to go ahead with the variance, you had some conditions? Cindy Kirchoff: Yes, they're located on page 6 of the staff report... Mayor Mancino: Oh, motion should the City Council. Okay, I got it. Thank you. Councilwoman Jansen. Councilwoman Jansen: I would agree with what Councilman Senn shared as far as not increasing the impervious surface. I'm usually one that of course wants to protect the bluff lines but the house is out over this bluff line as it is. So I think again as the applicant said, the purpose has already been really affected as to the bluff ordinance. I believe though it was within the Planning Commission minutes where they mentioned that maybe you need to do an amendment to the bluff ordinance that maybe specifically says in instances like this ,where there is an existing home in the bluff, if the addition is being placed on the non bluff side, street sidè of the home, that that would be acceptable. Under these conditions I do find that acceptable. Mayor Mancino: Councilman Engel. Councilman Engel: Homeowners first... Mayor Mancino: Oh, we're going to go to task on that someday you know. Councilman Labatt made his comments on this item. Mayor Mancino: Okay, thanks. I have nothing more to add. May I have a motion please. Councilman Senn made the motion with an additional condition number 5 regarding preserving the property along the south property line in it's natural state. Mayor Mancino: Is there a second to the motion? Councilman Labatt: Second. 9 Ci~ Council Meeting - March 27,2000 Councilman Senn moved, Councilman Labatt seconded that the City Council approve the variance request (V AR #2000-2) from the 5 foot bluff protection setback for the construction of an addition subject to the following conditions: I. The addition shall be located as shown on the plans prepared on March 2, 2000 by RLK- Kuusisto, Ltd. 2. The applicant shall work with staff in the final alignment of the storm drainage pipe. 3. The grading plan shall be revised to maintain drainage in a sheet flow versus a swale around the west side of the structure. 4. The applicant shall provide a grading, drainage and erosion control plan prior to building permit issuance. S. Staff will outline along the south property line the area which is to be left in it's natural vegetative state. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. Mayor Mancino: That one stipulation which I'm assuming Mr. Fisher you had no problems with keeping that south natural? Okay, thank you. Thanks for coming. REOUEST FOR A WETLAND ALTERATION PERMIT TO EXCAVATE APPROXIMATELY 6.000 SO. FT. OF WETLAND AND FILLING APPROXIMATELY 600 SO. FT. OF WETLAND ACCESS TO LAKESHORE. 7310 KURVERS POINT ROAD. MARILYN & DANIEL BOECKERMANN. Kate Aanenson presented the staff report on this item. Mayor Mancino: Any questions for staff at this point? Is the applicant here and would you like to address the council? Rob Merila: ...my name is Rob Merila...and basically what the project entails is doing a bit of an improvement to the area, the wetland is reed canary grass and what I've noticed is that the reed canary grass tends to be a lower... opening up some areas in the reed canary grass to a deeper water area that will provide more diverse habitat... so that's one of the things. And I did some checking into the issue about the... There is Some concerns about.. .and I contacted two representatives from the Department of Natural Resources...by the name of Ceil Strauss who represents Carver Coun~...and she said that she didn't believe that there would be a problem with the excavation as to... One of the reasons was...and the depth that they talk about here is an 8 foot depth... The question about a seal being broken is a valid question... Under certain circumstances... If that area is excavated, the... However this situation here is quite different and as long as the water...here we're 5 feet at or above where most the excavation will take place... The second point with the excavated area here is that that would provide additional water quali~...the water as it flows into the làke... Mayor Mancino: Okay, thank you Rob. Any questions? Councilwoman Jansen: Actually I have one. One of the things, I don't know what it's called. We had an attachment in our packet that was basically talking about the excavated pond and one of the statements in 10 City Council Meeting - March 27, 2000 there was that wetlands restored by reducing drainage are always preferable to dug outs, and I know as we've been addressing some of the situations for restoration in the Bluff Creek Watershed, we've talked about raising water levels. Is there an opportunity here to actually, if you would, stop the flow in order to back the water up in this area and not so dramatically affect every one along the way, but I was just wondering if that was an option for making more open water here versus the dug out. Rob Merila: That might be a possibility... Councilwoman Jansen: And I believe when our ex-Water Resource Coordinator was talking about these restoration areas, he was also talking about doing a burning of the reed canary grass as the water was then being raised, so I don't know what difference that makes in the area too then. Rob Merila: ...part of the restoration... Councilwoman Jansen: Okay, thank you. Mayor Mancino: And when you do do native plants you do need to do the burning cyclically. Rob MeriJa: Right. That's in the plan... Mayor Mancino: Thank you. Any other questions? There was discussion between Councilman Senn and Rob Merila at this point. Mayor Mancino: And when they did come to the Planning Commission and talk about that. And asked, so I'm assuming that they're being addressed. There was discussion between councilmembers at this point that was not picked up on tape. Dean Carlson, who is the realtor selling this property, commented that this improvement to the property would greatly help in being able to market and sell the property. The property has been for sale for a considerable amount of time and he believes the proposal by the Boeckermann's is a good one that will enhance the value of the property. Mayor Mancino: Would the applicant please come forward. State your name and address. Dan Boeckermann: Dan Boeckermann, Marilyn and I are the applicants. We currently live across 101 in Eden Prairie and would like to move to Chanhassen. The plan as you described it there, there is an access down in the commons area. You have to go, if you're familiar with the area, you have to go up to a little bridge over the wetlands...out into the wetlands area, all the way along the beach pastthe common area to getto the lake frontage that's available there... It's kind of an unusual layout because it's got wetlands and then right at the beach it's got a raised area where I live where the previous owners had a dock and they've always had the access through the commons area. And I guess our interest is having our own access to that high land on the water part. And we've tried to do it, we've hired Rob and asked him to work with the city in trying to come up with a plan that would protect the quality there and also give us something that has some aesthetic value too, and still have our own access. Personally I went out there last fall when we were looking at it initially. I walked not only the wetlands but went into the lake and walked around the lake along the shoreline there and the part when: we've got the bridge planned is currently where the water drains out. There is a small area there right now that's about that wide and probably... And our thought is that if we can expand the...we'd have to determine how much II Ci~ Council Meeting - March 27, 2000 bridge we would actually need yet to leave enough room to have it drain properly, but the area that was draining...area where the water goes currently. But the main reason we'd like to have our own private access to the... Mayor Mancino: Can I ask one question? Kate, according to the staff report, page 3 of the Planning Commission, Phillip says that this, using the conditions that we have put down.. .and Wetland Conservation Act as far as restoration. So what we're doing is consistent with our established ci~ policy and Wetland Conservation Act, correct? Kate Aanenson provided the answer to the question. Councilman Engel stated he supported this request due to the support by the wetland specialist. Councilwoman Jansen: My hesitation with this one is how interrelated this piece of wetland is with everyone else's properties and what we were saying as far as the topography being somewhat flat. To now be impacting a piece of this in the same regard as we don't want to raise the water level, I get a little concerned with just affecting a part of what is the entire complex. It may not be a A quali~ wetland, but I do think ftom reading the neighbors comments in the minutes, they seem to value the way their property is currently. And I hesitate to then, for one come in and do this heavy excavation and the affect it will have on even the upland wooded area. Because there will be a great deal of clearing that would have to be done to bring the excavation equipment down close enough to do the work, so that was one of my concerns and I realize that the Planning Commission tried to address that with the tree preservation comment. But I see this as a major impact to an area where there are already existing homes who are already valuing the area as it is. And it is a big impact right next to their properties and interconnected. If there wasn't this existing alternative, and I realize it would probably be nicer to have a direct path out to the dock area, but I was a little surprised when I walked out just how convenient it was having the Association bridge already there and I realize this is personal opinion but it's almost an island configuration is how I was thinking of this walk across then the high land, then the dock that's already there. So realizing that it's really the path, then the necessi~ and there's also an alternative to putting that in more directly, Ijust hesitate to impact this area that dramatically since it isn't just... .for one property. It's one property...but it is one big wetland complex. Councilman Labatt provided his comments on this issue. Mayor Mancino: Would you please come forward so we can get you on tape. Dan Boeckennann: Trying to respond to that. The plan is to use the ground that's excavated to build the benn. Now if there's excess or shortage, my guess is based on what's being proposed... The other thought is to... Councilman Senn stated his objections to this project, but since he lives in this neighborhood and is a part ofthe Homeowners Association he would not be voting on this item. He would be abstaining ftom the vote. Mayor Mancino: Kate, would you talk a little bit about the neighborhood. What they perceive.... boardwalk that others have done. Staff responded to Mayor Mancino's question. 12 City Council Meeting - March 27, 2000 Mayor Mancino: Well that's what I was going to ask. Going back to when the development of Kurvers Point was done because we have... Well let's, can I have a motion please. Councilwoman Jansen: I'll move the City Council denies Wetland Alteration Pennit #00-1. Mayor Mancino: Is there a second? Councilman Labatt: Second. Councilwoman Jansen moved, Councilman Labatt seconded that the City Council denies Wetland Alteration Permit #00-1. Councilwoman Jansen and Councilman Labatt voted in favor ofthe motion. Mayor Mancino and Councilman Engel voted in opposition to the motion. Councilman Senn abstained. The motion failed with a tie vote of 2 to 2. The City Attorney recommended that the City Council direct staff to prepare Findings of Fact to bring back at the next City Council meeting on this item. Mayor Mancino: And the motion fails and we will have Findings of Fact. Thank you. REOUEST FOR SITE PLAN REVIEW FOR TWO RETAIL BUILDINGS: BUILDING A BA VING 23.607 SO. FT. AND BUILDING B BA VING 7.800 SO. FT: LOTS 1 AND 2. BLOCK 1. WEST VILLAGE HEIGHTS 3RD ADDITION: LOCATED ON THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF WEST 78TH STREET AND POWERS BOULEVARD INTERSECTION. T.F. JAMES COMPANY. Bob Generous presented the staff report on this item. Mayor Mancino: ... where the dock would be on that east side. There is a loading dock. Bob Generous: It'd actually be to the rear of the site. Mayor Mancino: Any other questions? ...so the people on the south side...ls the applicant here and would you like to address council? Charlie James presented the site plan for an Office Max building and a retail Building B and went over the specifics ofthe plan. Mayor Mancino: Any other questions right now? Councilmembers had some questions for the applicant and then gave their comments on the project. Councilwoman Jansen: First I have to say it's the best looking Office Max I think I've ever seen. So having seen enough of these buildings I appreciate all the effort that you obviously had to put in to get us this good looking Office Max to go on this corner. And Building B seems to have a great deal of character to it also, so I am liking... You'll probably hear me echo exactly what you've heard from staff that they were pushing and pulling and tugging and trying to make this west elevation look a little bit more appealing...entryway into our downtown. I can certainly appreciate that you've already added the one window on the corner for the corner appeal and all the additional landscaping certainly helps break up the mass of that side of the building. I think it was Mr. James pointed it out in the Planning Commission meeting, he followed code and our ordinances and certainly meets all of those and he went beyond and staff pushed and pulled and tugged and we can appreciate what they put all of you through in 13 Ci~ Council Meeting - March 27, 2000 order to accomplish our goals so thank you for that. .. . additional changes I guess just bringing the different constraints that you've had to work with and the ones that you've mentioned here this evening. I'm comfortable with this...can't manage to negotiate the other little things along the west or the south side, because I also hesitated about that south side elevation not actually being the entry, but I realize that it's that configuration...so I'll keep my comments to that. Councilman Senn provided his comments on this project. Councilman Engel provided his comments on this project. Councilman Labatt provided his comments on this project. Mayor Mancino: Thank you...putting it all together. I have a few...I agreed with most of what, other council people said. Council persons. Let me start with the north side. More landscaping on the north side. Deciduous, coniferous trees. ...On the west elevation definitely more articulation because people are going to be going down Powers. They look north on Highway 5... I'd like to pull the building down... What I'm concerned ahout, and what you'll probably come back and say is, you lose parking spaces because of that but I'd like you to look at that. In fact Kate do we have, is the parking for the building adequate? Is it more than adequate than what our ordinance states? Kate Aanenson responded that the parking met ci~ code. Mayor Mancino: ... but there are more than enough for our ordinance? Okay. .. . Charlie, you want to come up and talk about that? Pulling the building forward. Charlie James explained to the Council all the different configurations that his finn had gone through to come up with this final site plan that was being submitted. Mayor Mancino: Come on Charlie. We're just trying to give you display windows for Office Max because...put equipment and everything. We thought you'd like to have some more windows on that south side so when people drive by they see... Okay, good. Charlie James continued his presentation of the site plan layout and Kate Aanenson explained what site layouts staff had gone over with the applicant. Mayor Mancino: Can you also talk about pulling the building south at all... You said that you had gone through that. Just real briefly. Charlie James explained the consequences of locating the buildings farther south on the site. Mayor Mancino: I was looking at the Office Max... There were comments made by council members not picked up on the tape. Councilwoman Jansen: Are we towards the deadline? Mayor Mancino: Do we have any problems Kate with timing? Kate Aanenson responded to the timing question. 14 City Council Meeting - March 27, 2000 Scott Botcher: ...but I think that certainly at this point it's not out ofline... Mayor Mancino: Well I also think that in our Highway 5 corridor, architectural design standards, there is an area that would...ifyou can visually give it to us. Okay. Charlie James stated that he would like a decision from the City Council on this item tonight. Councilwoman Jansen: I'm going to màke a motion that the City Council approves Site Plan #97-6, plans prepared by James R. Hill Inc. dated 1/28/2000 subject to the following conditions per the staff report I through 32. Adding, I don't think I heard Mr. James take objection to the evergreens. Adding point number 33 to work with staff to add evergreen material along the north side within that landscaping.. . Mayor Mancino: Is there a second? Councilman Engel asked how tall the trees were on the north side. There was discussion at this point not picked up on the tape. Mayor Mancino: Charlie, how tall are the trees. Councilman Engel: That's aliI want to know. Just asking. Charlie James stated that he could not tell how tall they were from the plans. Mayor Mancino: So what, an inch and a half caliper or something? There was discussion at this point between the applicant and City Council that was not picked up on tape regarding the height of the trees on the plan. , Mayor Mancino: I know and he's just asking what is code requirements on there. Are they 6 feet? Okay... so they're 6 foot trees and a bigger caliper on the western elevation. And what... Councilman Labatt made a comment at this point in the discussion. Councilman Senn made a comment at this point in the discussion. Councilman Engel: ...Charlie's said yes there is break-up in the side of the building... deciduous trees that are a little bit bigger to help break up...regardless of the shadows. We're having problems visualizing. .. Mayor Mancino: Okay, so we have a motion on the floor and Linda made it and she also added 33. To work with staff to add evergreen materials to the north side. Is there any condition in here that talks about Bob, I'm sorry Linda to take your motion...about making the trees that are on the existing landscape plan on the west side... Bob Generous responded to Mayor Mancino's question. Mayor Mancino: So it's your motion... 15 City Council Meeting - March 27, 2000 Councilwoman Jansen: How about if we just say to increase, because we're just saying, how did you word that? To use larger caliper trees. So if, larger caliper deciduous and. ..and taller coniferous. Councilman Senn made a comment at this point in the discussion. Councilwoman Jansen: If I'm hearing correctly though he meets code and ordinance. Mayor Mancino: So did the wetlands. The last thing... Okay, so finish your motion and then we'll decide. Councilwoman Jansen: It's finished. Mayor Mancino: Okay, so what was number 9. Keep it as is? Councilwoman Jansen: The larger caliper, I'm sorry. Larger caliper deciduous and taller coniferous. Mayor Mancino: Is there a second to the motion? Councilman Engel: I'll second it. There was some additional discussion on clarification of the motion. Councilwoman Jansen: Per staff, condition 32. The applicant shall work with the city staff to create the entrance design for this location which may include the granting of an easement to locate a city monument on the site. The proposed design must be submitted to City Council for approval. No. Staff had asked during the work session, correct that we use...condition. Councilman Senn asked for clarification on this condition. Councilwoman Jansen: It doesn't say anything about a sign. Mayor Mancino: ... the only thing that I would add in 9 is that in addition to what Councilwoman Jansen said, I would just add western, northern and the south side in this area so it's a little larger trees. Little taller coniferous... Council members had discussion regarding this amendment. Councilwoman Jansen: I would be in favor of dropping more to the south.. .lithe building is set down &om the hill. Mayor Mancino: Okay, we'll just say no to the friendly amendment. Just say no to the friendly amendment. Okay, the motion stands as is. Councilwoman Jansen moved, Councilman Engel seconded that the City Council approve Site Plan #97-6, pIans prepared by James R. Bill, Inc., dated 1/28/00, subject to the following conditions: I. The applicant shall enter into a site plan agreement with the City and provide the necessary security to guarantee erosion control, site restoration and landscaping. 16 City Council Meeting - March 27, 2000 2. The proposed lighting will be consistent with the lighting used at West Village Center, dark bronze anodized with square heads. Lighting shall use shielded fixtures and be directed away from public right-of-way and adjacent residential property. Sufficient lighting shall be provided to illuminate all areas of the parking lot to provide adequate levels of safety. To miniInize off-site impacts, light levels as measured at the property line, shall not exceed one-half foot candle. 3. Wall signs shall not exceed five percent of the total area of the east and south elevations of Building A and five percent of the south elevation of Building B. Staff has calculated the sign area for building A as follows: east elevation based on 3,735 square feet permitted sign area of 187 square feet; and south elevation based on 4,351 square feet permitted sign area 217 square feet. A separate sign permit application shall be required for all signage. 4. The western portion of the south parking lot for Office Max shall be used to create an artistic feature including sculptures, fountains, benches, gazebo, etc. 5. All roof mounted equipment shall be screened from views from the public right-of-ways. 6. The applicant shall revise proposed landscape plan to meet minimum landscape ordinance requirements. In addition, the landscaping along the western and northern sides of the building shall use larger caliper deciduous and taller coniferous trees to help soften the long expanses of relatively blank wall areas. 7. The applicant shall work with staff to revise landscape island configurations in order to meet provide acceptable space for plant growth. 8. The applicant and/or contractor shall notify the City Engineer upon encountering any existing drain tile on the site. The City Engineer will determine whether or not the drain tile can be abandoned or relocated. 9. Additional erosion control fence (Type I) shall be installed along the westerly property line. Erosion control measures shall be in place and maintained at all times until the site has been fully restored and revegetated and the City authorizes removal. 10. The applicant shall obtain and receive the necessary permits from the regulatory agencies such as the Watershed District, Carver County Highway Department, and Chanhassen Building Department. I L The proposed watermain connection between the lots shall be deleted. 12. If earthwork material is to be hauled to or from the site, the applicant shall submit to City staff the designated haul routes and traffic control signage plan for approval prior to hauling activities commencing. The applicant will be required to maintain haul routes and clean the streets of any dirt and mud accumulated from vehicles tracking. Any damage to City streets, curbs or other public facilities will be the responsibility of the applicant. Hauling earthwork material east along West 78th Street through the downtown will not be permitted. All construction vehicles shall access the site from a designated location along West 78th Street. 13. The existing boulevard trees along West 78th Street shall be preserved/protected from construction activities. If any city boulevard trees need to be relocated as a result of site improvements they shall be transplanted or replaced in kind in a location designated by the City Forester. The applicant shall 17 City Council Meeting - March 27, 2000 be responsible for replacement of any houlevard tree that does not survive for up to one year after the certificate of occupancy has been issued. 14. The applicant shall be responsible for adjustments to the City's utilities systems, streets, sidewalk, street lights and boulevard impacted by the site improvements. The applicant shall apply for and obtain a permit for construction in right of way for work performed within West 7Sth Street right of way. A fmancial security in the form of a letter of credit or cash escrow in the amount of $1 0,000 will be required to guarantee boulevard restoration. 15. The applicant shall submit a detailed traffic control plan to the City for review and approval prior to issuance of a building permit. 16. Retaining walls in excess offour feet in height shall be engineered and separate building permits obtained. 17. A cross-access and maintenance agreement shall be prepared by the applicant and recorded against both parcels. IS. The applicant shall pay full park and trail fees pursuant to City Ordinance. 19. The buildings are required to be protected with an automatic fire extinguishing system. 20. The east wall of building B must be one-hour fire-resistive construction where it is closer than 20 feet to the property line. 21. Each building must be provided with one access aisle for accessible parking that is a minimum of eight feet wide. 22. A ten foot clear space must be maintained around fire hydrants, i.e., street lamps, trees, shrubs, bushes, NSP, US West Cable TV and transformer boxes. This is to ensure that fire hydrants can be quickly located and safely operated by firefighters. Pursuant to Chanhassen City Ordinance 9-1. 23. Referencing the 23,607 square foot building, the fire department sprinkler connection must be located near the main entrance to the store. Contact the Fire Marshall for exact location. 24. The P. I. V. shall be equipped with electronic tamper device. 25. Fire sprinkler design shall be submitted for review and approval. It must be designed for high piled storage. 26. Comply with Chanhassen Fire Department Policy regarding fire department's notes to be included on all site plans. Pursuant to Chanhassen Fire Department Policy #04-1991. 27. Contact Chanhassen Fire Marshall for exact location of fire lane signs and curbing to be painted yellow. Pursuant to Section 904-1 1997 Uniform Fire Code. 2S. Comply with Chanhassen Fire Department policy regarding premise identification. Submit plans to the Fire Marshall for review of building identification. Pursuant to Chanhassen Fire Department/Fire Prevention Division policy #29-1992." IS Ci~ Council Meeting - March 27, 2000 29. The applicant shall work with ci~ staff to create the entrance design for this location, which may include the granting of an easement to locate a ci~ monument on the site. The proposed design must be submitted to Ci~ Council for approval. 30. The applicant shall work with ci~ staff to add additional evergreens along the north side of the site within the landscaping plan. All voted in favor, except Mayor Mancino and Councilman Senn who opposed, and the motion carried with a vote of 3 to 2. Charlie James made some final comments regarding the landscaping plan. REOUEST FOR SITE PLAN REVIEW FOR A 13.117 SO. FT. EXPANSION TO A 9.161 SO. FT. BUILDING: LOT 2. BLOCK 1. CBANBASSEN BUSINESS CENTER 2NO ADDITION. 8360 COMMERCE DRIVE. IDGBLAND DEVELOPMENT. Bob Generous presented the staff report on this item. Dave Hempel clarified condition number 2 per the applicant's request. Mayor Mancino: Thank you. Any questions for staff? The applicant, would you like to address the Council? You don't have to. Dave Obee, the applicant, discussed his proposal with the Ci~ Council. Mayor Mancino: Thank you. Any comments trom council members? Can I have a motion please? Councilman Senn moved, Councilman Labatt seconded that the Ci~ Council approves Site Plan #95-11 (File 2), as shown on the plans prepared by Martin Woody Architects, dated January 26, 2000, and subject to the following conditions: I. The applicant shall plan four (4) evergreens north of the proposed addition and one deciduous tree west of the proposed addition. Existing trees shall be protected by tree fencing during construction. No existing trees shall be removed. If so, they will be replaced at a rate of 2: I diameter inches. 2. The applicant shall work with ci~ staff to determine the amount of fill material that may be placed over the Ci~'s storm water pipe or within the Ci~'s 20 foot wide drainage and utili~ easement north of the building. 3. Wall mounted lights shall be shielded trom direct off site view. 4. The addition is required to be protected with an automatic fire extinguishing system. 5. Two accessible parking spaces are required and the access aisle must be 8 feet wide. 6. The applicant shall enter into a site plan agreement with the Ci~ and provide the necessary securi~ to guarantee erosion control, site restoration and landscaping. 7. The present storage bins or trailers that are on the site shall be removed upon completion of the addition, and they may not be used again on the premises without prior ci~ approval. 19 Ci~ Council Meeting - March 27, 2000 AU voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. WORK PLAN 2000. CITY OF CBANBASSEN AND CARVER COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE. Bud Olson and Dave Potts were present from the Carver Coun~ Sheriff's Department to discuss this item with the Ci~ Council. ' Bud Olson: ...1 appreciate the opportuni~ to be here Mayor and Council. We've been working diligently on this work direction that you've given us for the work plan for the ci~ and Scott, Dave and I have met and we've talked to staff on both ends and tried to come up with something that we felt would be a start anyway as far as what you do on the work plan...ideas of where the sheriff's contract is going. And so I'm not going to go into a lot of the details other than just to say that we think this is workable. You know sometimes you have to crawl before you walk...Dave getting out there and just getting his feet on the ground. This has been...I think we hit our target line as far as trying to get it done this first quarter of the year. With that I think that there's been, a couple of minor adjustments to my initial proposal and maybe those are just grammatical changes...but if you can, I don't know if you have any specific questions for Dave or I but I'd be happy to talk about them with you. Mayor Mancino: Any questions from council? Councilman Labatt had some questions for Sheriff Olson. Bud Olson: Mayor and council members, that was probably an oversight. We can include other types of... Mayor Mancino: You know Dave that was the other thing I was just going to add to under Businesses. That maybe there be a database started that also shows what businesses have special needs. I mean somebody may have some concerns, if you can check with them periodically about after II :00 at night they've noticed certain patterns or something. Dave Potts responded to the Mayor's request. Bud Olson: When you get more commercial like you're looking at loading docks at different locations, residents start calling...compliance checks. That's a time when we can bring a lot of those businesses in and talk about... more specific issues. Night managers don't usually work days and so when they get pulled into these meetings they have a different perspective on the business. What happens to their property at night versus during... Scott Botcher: Here's the thing that I'd ask you to consider. At some point as we deal with developing a base line, a quantifiable data...you will, as I said in my memo, have to start making, should start making interpretations... what these trends mean and in the law enforcement public safety.. .And a lot of it comes down to basic stats... Does that mean you have 50% more speeders? Do we have 50% less speeders because you're enforcing more or...just doing a better job. So as we develop data, it can mean different things as you look at these reports...and I always look at the year to date criminal, non-criminal stuff. The non-criminal...is up around 100 calls... break out and see what it is. Try to tell myself not to interprettoo much by that... We have for example, it's been a good year...traffic, miscellaneous, miscellaneous non-criminal. Those type ofthings...yeàh, it's doubled. Bud Olson: See one incident could drive that number and that's why it's really hard to interpret. 20 Ci~ Council Meeting - March 27, 2000 Scott Botcher: Thefts are down 32%. So that's a good trend line but. ..smarter criminals or Dave and Bud, right? I don't know. ,¡; Bud Olson: I think it's all the positive press. , Scott Botcher. So those are...because our goal is, when we start coming up with identifiable criteria to measure, that we have pulled off...starting going into it and I guess I just wanted you to... We don't have that trend line to measure, and even if we did, we have a nice... Bud Olson: Mayor and Council, I can speak to Scott's issue a little bit is, in some of the other communities, in the larger cities what they try to do is take a look at, what serious crimes you have and they do communi~ service. They look at what the need identifies as their key issues. What drives fear... One thing that a lot of other communities do is after so many contacts they'll send out a survey. Like for every report we do we send out a survey note to that victim or complainant and ask then you know, how was our service? Did we do well? Were your needs met and that's how some police agencies calculate whether they're getting the good service out to the communi~ and... so there are different things. One thing that I am definitely looking for some help with and we talked about this is, is this concept of input or participation and while we make sure we look at it on a case by case basis where we have a special project coming into town or...excellent communi~ surveys materials in the Bureau of Justice Statistics. We just got it at the office that's excellent communi~ survey developed by the Office of... There's a whole book and manual that goes with it on CD Rom. It can be done locally. It might be one of those things where somehow we incorporate that. We try to use pieces of that survey and let's survey the public. Let's see what have they got to say about their policing. What they're evaluating as needs. I think Dave and I can pretty well say that... those are the things that we know already today that we can target.. . but there's different mechanisms. Mayor Mancino: Well I think it'd be great to get the feedback on your service so if there was some sort of cards that they could fill out and say, what was it like... police force, etc. I think that would be great. Bud Olson: Mayor and Council, I think we have something in the ci~ already where you survey. . , Mayor Mancino: Inspections. We did have some of that but I don't think we actually did for law enforcement. But I may be wrong. I mean please check. ...thank you very much. And again, thank you for staying through this long meeting. Councilman Senn moved, Councilwoman .Jansen seconded that the City Council approve the draft of the Work Plan 2000 from the Carver County Sheriff's Office and direct them to continue working on the plan. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. Scott Botcher. Between this and Project Leadfoot we've gotten our money's worth out of your sargeant. Seriously, you've done a very nice job. It's not over time is it? COUNCIL LEGISLATIVE DISCUSSION. BILL TRACKING REPORT. Scott Botcher: Well this is Councilman Senn's issue. Councilman Senn stated that due to lack of interest by other council members on this issue and also due to the lateness of the meeting, that no discussion needed to take place at this point. COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS: 21 Ci~ Council Meeting - March 27, 2000 Mayor Mancino: Any presentations ITom the Council? It was requested to discuss the Administrative Presentations at this point in the meeting. ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS: CENSUS PARTNERSHIP AGREEMENT. CITY MANAGER. Scott Botcher: Census Partnership Agreement. I would just like direction fTom the Council. I have some... Councilman Senn: Well I'm sorry but I'm going to take issue with this. I really am. After they came in and. Scott Botcher: You didn't even listen to my rationalization. Councilman Senn: I read all this stuff and it's ridiculous. After they were in here last time pleading with us, I went and got them some senior volunteers who called them. Were retired people who would go out and take the census and they told them no, they weren't interested in them because (a), they didn't live in Chanhassen. Okay, and (b), there was some other reason. It was ridiculous. I mean I don't understand why this even keeps coming up on our agenda... Scott Botcher: I am simply just telling you guys. Councilman Labatt: Don't kill the messenger. Councilman Senn: I'm just telling you, it really irritates me. Scott Botcher: Here's the deal. I don't think you should do this but I want you to know that you'll be in bad graces with... They want us to dedicate some resources and some staff time to a partnership... personnel and economic resources towards this. Mayor Mancino: Not that we don't support the census but I think we have enough to do. I think our staff has enough to do. I don't know how anybody else feels. Scott Botcher: Okay, and then because this...I guess I'd like to in could, turn it over to, I'mjust going to keep going down my list here for a second. For the attorney for one second. I was running around before talking to Peter Coyle who wanted to get something to you for you all to look at tonight. So we have now put together, or primarily Roger has put together, I guess another settlement proposal. Vernelle is here to talk to it I guess... Roger Knutson passed out a handout with a revised Settlement Agreement regarding an amendment with Lake Susan Hills Apartments between the Ci~ ofChanhassen and AUSMAR for the Council's review Mayor Mancino: Roger, what would you like us to do on this? Roger Knutson explained what he was looking for ITom the Ci~ Council. Mayor Mancino: Then the last question I have, automatically be renewed for an additional one year period... 22 Ci~ Council Meeting - March 27, 2000 Councilwoman Jansen: I have another question. Somewhere have we specified exactly what the housing units are that we're looking for on the other side? Meaning how many rental and how many ownership since we're somewhere between this green acres on the numbers. Scott Botcher: ... it's in the grant agreement. Councilwoman Jansen: But as we've shifted and we don't have affordable on this side, I'm assuming then that affordable's going on the other side and we've actually amended whatever we need to amend to have the right numbers? Okay. Scott Botcher: ...those numbers and...obligation of all parties to meet the numbers... Met Council frankly cares less of where you put them and more that they're there. So that part we're okay with. Councilwoman Jansen: And the grant agreement does have the exact, I don't have it in front of me. It does have the exact numbers. Scott Botcher: It does have the exact numbers. Councilwoman Jansen: Okay. Okay... I just know it's not in the PUD but it is in the grant agreement. Scott Botcher: And that's where... Vernelle, a question came up. What would prevent the landowner from doing the two commercial sites and then walking away from... Vernelle Clayton responded to Scott Botcher's question. Scott Botcher: ... That letter of credit, depending upon how you do the math and... Now my understanding, and you correct me ifI'm wrong Verne lie, is thatthe legal beagle who draws... Mayor Mancino: ...but we could do it all at one time. Scott Botcher: You'd have to consider that. Mayor Mancino: But I'm not sure all council members are going to be here. Who's going on vacation? ... but in two weeks you could bring it back to a regular council session if we want. Vernelle Clayton asked that action be taken sooner per a request from Sheldon Wert. There was discussion between the council members and staff on when they could meet to act on this request. Councilwoman Jansen: I'd just as soon wait to see the final draft. Mayor Mancino: I think everybody would so if we did it on the lOth. There was discussion to see if action could be taken sooner than the regular council meeting on April 10'h. Either hold a special meeting or at the work session meeting on April 3rd. 23 Ci~ Council Meeting - March 27, 2000 Mayor Mancino: Vemelle, which date, does it make any difference to you whether it's the 3"'... On the 3'" we'll have maybe four council people. Scott and Roger won't be here to talk about it with us. Or would you rather wait til the ] Otb when there's a full council, Scott and Roger? Councilman Engel: I think you can tell which direction this is going. Vemelle Clayton: I think it really depends on what direction you give us tonight. If there's clear direction.. .and no one has a problem with this concept, Shel... Councilwoman Jansen: ] don't know, I can't even think about it. I've just got to see it. Mayor Mancino: I feel comfortable with it so why don't we go àhead and move to see it on Monday night, April 3'" then. What you would like. Councilwoman Jansen: And there will be someone from Roger's office there then? Ifwe have questions. Roger Knutson stated there would be someone from his office available to answer questions. Vemelle Clayton: If there's an issue then could you circulate it to the Council folks ahead oftime if you have questions... Councilman Senn moved, Councilman Engel seconded to direct the Ci~ Attorney to prepare and bring back to the Ci~ Council work session on April 3, 2000 a draft regarding the revised Settlement Agreement with AUSMAR. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Scott Botcher provided an update to the Ci~ Council on where staff was at in the interview process for selecting a new Ci~ Engineer/Public Works Director. They had the candidates narrowed down to two and were checking references. For the position of Water Resources Coordinator staff had identified a single candidate and were in negotiations with them at this point. COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS: Councilman Engel: Council presentations. Can we go back to that part? ...1 wanted to address this Rules...I don't like it. It sends a bad message to future council towards staff relations. As far as working together.. . respond to that if you want. Scott Botcher: Well] think. Councilman Engel: I'm saying for example. If the Mayor is asked to come... if Councilman Labatt was asked to weigh in on law enforcement issues...Councilwoman Jansen's asked for input on environmental and Councilman Senn on development issues. We all have our areas of professional expertise. I don't care... Scott Botcher: Mark, I'll be honest with you. This is the first time...but at the same time we're all professionals...but I'll be honest with you, I had two council members...and our staff frankly, and myself included, are looking for direction on what we're supposed to do. I don't enjoy. ..department heads and we've all discussed it. Doing what we could...and that being said, and maybe more of it's as much a survival.. . but we're here to serve for the common good of the communi~ and serving... but I think you 24 City Council Meeting - March 27, 2000 would help us out, let me back up. Absent any direction from the council or discussion amongst yourselves, we have no guidelines to follow. Mayor Mancino: We never have had though. Scott Botcher: That may be. I'm just telling you that...I work for all ofyou...sometimes it's very difficult...staffto do their joh the best way thatthey see... There's no, I tend to agree with you Mark. It's been my experience...so I respect what you said...but I've got staff members that are looking for some guidance... Mayor Mancino: Well what's the 30 minutes? ... Scott Botcher: Do they want that? No. That was put in there simply because I wanted to get some control on what it was...that's probably notthe crux of the rules. The crux ofthe rules I think involve council interaction...so I think that given the fact that again, I'm on the... You all can hold a discussion...is up to each individual. Councilman Engel: I have probably the most hands off policy that you'll find. Over the three years, I feel it's my turn...when it's time to vote. I have 115 say... if people wantto get involved earlier, get involved in the process. I don't know where to draw that line... Councilwoman Jansen: Well the bottom line of where it's coming from is the notification issue, and that's what we talked about since the very beginning as far as meetings. That if there's a meeting that will involve council members or council business, we had asked that the entire council be notified because... private or not, made public if you have two members present. So it was more from an involvement and a notification point of view that we were coming from last year where we were asking, at least every one be notified... Having that said, when we talk about areas of expertise, you know I don't know. I see Project Leadfoot, and I would have anticipated Councilman Labatt's involvement maybe on something like that. Had he wanted to. Which again is more of an infonnation sharing but last year I bounced the question off of Mr. Knutson as I was trying to discern where the council stops and staff does their jobs. Where do we get involved...and Mr. Knutson probably put it best by saying that if, when council gets involved, and I don't know in'm going to word this correctly. I don't have it with me. When council gets involved you can influence the way a recommendation is going to come through to the rest ofthe council. So that said, if we don't get involved in the projects until they come before council, it's then gone through the process with staffs professional guidance. Their opinions. They're the, they're going to keep the politics and the personal and all of that out of it so that their recommendation goes to the Planning Commission before the Council's involvement. So more just màking sure that we're not maybe getting involved and influencing how a project's proceeding. And letting staff do what staff is supposed to do as far as...Mr. Botcher's letter when he first started. They're the doers. We're the deliherators. If anything, getting us out of the process in the early stages makes it better, in my mind, for staff to get done what it needs to get done. Councilman Engel: ... if all four people were invited to a meeting and I wasn't there.. .and I disagreed, I still disagree with you whether I'm there or not. I really don't care if you all support a view on something that I disagree with... With that said, there's times when you may be asked to...or for example none of us but they want council input...and ask the Mayor and just say how do you think council would respond.. . Mayor Mancino: Wait, wait, wait. Wait, wait, wait. Something's, first of all. Number one, at the beginning of, and let's really talk this through. What happens. At the beginning when a project comes 25 Ci~ Council Meeting - March 27, 2000 in..., Kate doesn't call one of us and ask us to weigh in. She never has that I know of. That just doesn't happen, and if she thought, she's more professional, that any of us did weigh in and put a heavy on her, she would let us all know. You wouldn't even think of doing that to Kate or a developer because Kate would go directly to Scott, her boss and say you know, I'm getting a lot of whatever council person, a lot of, they want me to go a certain way. Councilwoman Jansen: Roger put it even more simply... Mayor Mancino: More siInply. Excuse me. I'm not done yet. Councilwoman Jansen: If you were just walking down the hall. Mayor Mancino: Roger, would you say, or it's not for you to decide, how we are going to act as a council... but you suggested to Councilwoman Jansen. It's not... Roger Knutson made a comment in response to the statement by the Mayor at this point. Councilman Senn made a comment at this point. Scott Botcher provided his comments from a staff perspective. Councilwoman Jansen: But keep in mind where I started ITom and that was the whole communication aspect of how we all work together. And the infonnation needing to be shared throughout so that we're all infonned màkes a huge difference. I mean I can't tell you, it's not the. Council members discussed with Scott Botcher a meeting that was held with the School District and the lack of communication in notifying council members. Councilwoman Jansen: Unfortunately the way that you just related that, there are third parties involved in how Tuesday's meeting came about. ...I'm going to move that we adjourn this meeting. Councilman Senn and Councilwoman Jansen had a discussion related to communications. Scott Botcher: The direction we get is ITom here. We do not receive any direction from individual council members. It does not happen. Doesn't happen. Councilman Engel made a comment. Scott Botcher: I mean part of what you have staff for is to bring issues that are ripe to council. You don't want issues that are not ripe to council and sometimes...and sort of had a come to Jesus meeting on the site plan. I mean I hated it.. .and we sat there and Kate had... but that was prior to it being ripe for the Ci~ Council. That's what we're here to do. Councilwoman Jansen: It's not staff's involvement. It's not just our individual problems. I have so many people from the public want to know why we govern the way that we do, meaning that individuals are out there doing individual things with staff. It's perceived that way. Perception is reali~. Ifwe all knew aoout these things or weren't even participating, there's a difference. 26 Ci~ Council Meeting - March 27, 2000 Mayor Mancino: Wait, wait, wait. What are these individual things that we are doing with staff? We have no idea what you're talking about... Or that individual council members are doing individual things. What are these individual things? Councilman Senn made a comment at this point. Mayor Mancino: Okay, and that will continue happening. It certainly continues happening with me as Mayor. A lot oftimes people will call and say to me that they've had a problem with staff or something and I'll talk to them and I'll meet with them and let staff know. There's no question. Councilwoman Jansen: It's different. It's not about meeting with your constituents. It's when. Mayor Mancino: So we're not allowed to meet? So what you're saying is you don't want us to meet... you don't want us to meet with staff. Councilwoman Jansen: No. No, I said it's not about our meeting with constituents. That's what we do. It's when we start getting involved with staff, with the developers and we're working on things individually that we're not longer letting the system work the way the system's supposed to work. Mayor Mancino: And that's from your perspective completely. I don't think it is from anybody else's. Councilwoman Jansen: It's not driving it. It's whether you start voicing your own opinions at a time when the decisions are still being processed and coming through. Mayor Mancino: Is this a problem for statr? Am I missing something? Scott Botcher made a comment at this point in response to the Mayor's and Councilwoman Jansen's comments. Councilwoman Jansen: We have no idea then what hits the cutting room floor. I mean you don't know where the thing started and where they ended. You lose the option until you... Scott Botcher: Weill don't think you lose any options because if you can take and bring them up, you can bring them up. I mean if you want to have pink drivit on office buildings, I mean anything that... Councilman Engel: An example came up tonight. I didn't like the... it wasn't anywhere in the documentation but I thought... Councilwoman Jansen: Why is it when you want to communicate supposedly and get everything out on the table you do it in front of the microphone instead in work session. This is the second time you've pulled this. Mayor Mancino: Or we could go to the paper and do it. Would you like us to do it there? I mean that's exactly what Mark brought up. I mean this is a meeting. We're together. We're talking and that's what we should be doing. Whether it's in front of the microphone or a work session. Councilwoman Jansen: Roger, how many people does it take to adjourn a meeting? Roger Knutson gave his answer. 27 Ci~ Council Meeting - March 27, 2000 Mayor Mancino: Keep with this and get this how we're going to work it through. Councilman Engel: If you ask me, this is the healthiest discussion we've held in a long time. It's better than having it in the paper or... It's hetter right here, right now. I have nothing to hide. Councilwoman Jansen: If you're looking for this to be constructive, then I suggest you...I mean you don't, if we're hying to. Councilman Engel made a comment at this point. Councilwoman Jansen: Communication. Ifwe can improve the communication and all of us just be in the loop on what's going on. Councilman Engel: I don't care. Councilwoman Jansen: That's your personal opinion. Councilman Engel: The loop comes when it comes. Council members held a discussion on this item at this point. Councilwoman Jansen: Monday night in our work session I sat down next to a member of this communi~ who proceeded to lobby me for, I had no idea where he was coming from. Suddenly I'm hearing aboutthe...project. Suddenly I'm hearing that Westwood Church has 2,000 members compared to a couple hundred neighbors in the Longacres development. Now if we're going to be listening to people on this Pulte project, well he doesn't know necessarily the details of what was going on there except he understands that we need a simple majori~ vote and we don't have it. I of course said well yes we did. We had passed it with a simple majori~ vote. I don't know what you're talking about. So not having any idea where he was coming /Tom or why he was lobbying me, I mean he's now suggesting that if we don't approve the Pulte project, if the church doesn't get the utilities, therefore we've screwed the church. But the only option that the church has to get their utilities is the /Tontage road and I'm saying, I have no idea what exactly it is that we're trying to accomplish with this conversation. I didn't know where it was going. It all related to the meeting on Tuesday morning because it came down to the school. Iff had known what was going on or been in the loop, I mean I wouldn't have been put in this very uncomfortable position of having no idea why I'm getting lobbied on a project that I don't even know is in house being worked on. ...yeàh they are. Mayor Mancino: They're going to lobby you. Councilman Senn: We're getting lobbied all the time. Councilwoman Jansen: But we didn't know the project was back in. I mean I said to him, to my knowledge. Mayor Mancino: Wait, wait, wait. Yeàh, not wait, wait, wait. It never went away. Councilwoman Jansen: To my knowledge they know what it is we need with the project to proceed and they're working on that. Councilman Senn made a comment. 28 Ci~ Council Meeting-March 27, 2000 Councilwoman Jansen: We told them in the bullet points when we passed it what it would have to look like when it came back for us to approve it. All I'm saying is, I was in a position where in had had the knowledge of what was going on. Councilman Engel: Let her finish this. I want to hear her finish this. Councilwoman Jansen: There were already conversations going on with the whole school aspect of it and what he was saying was for the next morning, getting together... Scott Botcher: My statement I guess is this. And again I'll go back to some what has been said. For 14 years, I guess it's been my experience that the successful councils, that every one on the council members, in more instances than not given the activi~ in the communi~...you know something, I don't have a clue. Why don't you call Scott and I've got to say something. Councilman Engel: I've got to address that right now because I probably have to say it more than anybody else because I keep at long arm's reach. Scott Botcher: And you know that doesn't' know that you're going to know everything every single time somehody asks you and I guess the best thing, and I'll give them credit. The Mayor already does this... you know something, I don't understand this. Call Scott or call whoever and you'll get your answer. That to me is an appropriate response. Councilwoman Jansen: I did tell him that I didn't know. Councilman Senn: That is the perfect response. Scott Botcher: Perfect. Councilman Senn: You should call Scott... Mayor Mancino: Yeah, I should say I don't know. Liv...called me last week and said, hey I hear you're not going TlF anymore. What's the deal? I said, and she met with Todd Gerhardt...and so I said call Scott. I don't know anything about it. I don't know what's coming in. That happens to all of us. Councilwoman Jansen: It was tied in with the meeting the next morning. Councilman Engel: But my answer would be the same. I know nothing about it. When I get the staff report on Thursday I'll be ready to talk about it on Saturday. Until then I have nothing to say. I've said that so many times. Mayor Mancino: And I think Scott has said that he screwed up... when he was talking about the school meeting. Part ofthat I have no idea...but 101 and the middle school, there were a lot of things under miscellaneous that I brought up that we had talked about. One was 101 and... The other one was under middle school... Some of the stuff we just asked about under miscellaneous and he doesn't have a memo prepared and has on the top of his head, he may read something else. Nobody can answer all the questions. Councilman Engel: That's why we get packets on Thursday and get the weekend to study them. There's nothing wrong with not knowing the answer. 29 Ci~ Council Meeting - March 27, 2000 Councilman Senn made a comment at this point. Councilman Labatt: No, no, no. Options. Councilman Senn: I understand that but again... I could operate on paranoia. I could say... you know, I don't care. It's been that way for 8 years... Councilman Labatt: ... this school issue is important. Unfortunately we.. . and I get a call... Councilman Engel: I think you've got to have more trust in...then that should be enough. Councilman Labatt: That's not my issue here. It's just communication. Let's leave it at that. I've got to go. Okay'? Mayor Mancino: Well no, I mean I think we have to come down on these rules because I mean we have to decide this as a council. I mean one of the things is, we get new council people, they're going to need to be to come in and get trained. They're going to need to meet with staff. I mean I weigh in on the rules thing too. Can't we just have more trust hetween us? If people want to know where I am, I don't mind keeping an open calendar with Karen. She can just have my calendar. She can have everybody's calendar. If that's the important part of it. Scott Botcher: Well that'd be easy too. Mayor Mancino: Well I'm just saying. If that's the real concern where people are... If we need to get better at communicating and knowing everything that happens, something will always get lost. But if we want to give Scott the message that as much as possible if you could keep everybody in the loop. We don't want to know every single meeting or what goes on but that if you know about a meeting that somebody asks about it, obviously tell everyone about the meeting. Scott Botcher: The only thing I would ask is that as a public official, that we hold many meetings that the Chanhassen Villager is not... they're not public. They're not supposed to be public meetings. The idea... had the right to he there is not... That will be, I mean they have, I know that Todd and Kate and... and it's a responsibili~. It is a responsibili~. I find it difficult, and I guess the one thing that, and... is that we cannot have staff trying to be...there's no way that you would even wantto know...but I think the idea that we have staff members who have to open up the Chanhassen Villager and read articles that are disparaging...makes my job very difficult. I guess I would ask you all to consider the overall... I mean it's like Steve opening up the paper and read his supervisor... Whatever. Comments he finds disparaging... You know Ithink ifanyone...it's probably not staff...and I don't know, I have my own personal opinions on the journalistic approach that was taken by the Villager... I guess I'd just ask you to consider what you do and how it impacts the staff... Mayor Mancino: Well I want to wrap up the rules. Decide how we feel as a council about the rules, and number two, whether we can together not have these rules but play together, work together, have the communi~'s interest in what we're doing together in the forefront and not all these heady little things going on. That's where I'd like to see us operating as a council... Councilwoman Jansen: I prefer having the rules in place for a while. But that's just my opinion. Councilman Engel: ... without them for years... my opinion. 30 City Council Meeting - March 27, 2000 Councilman Labatt gave his opinion on the rules. Mayor Mancino: Copying everybody on e-mails. Councilman Labatt: That's fine but... Mayor Mancino: Okay, so let's just copy everybody on e-mails so that when each of us e-mail you and... You don't have to write every single phone call down, no. No. No. I mean we don't want to take up your time, but if there is something, can we just leave it at staff's discretion. rfthere is a good question that is asked on the phone that you think that the rest of the council. Kate Aanenson made a comment at this point. Mayor Mancino: And you wanted to show it as good faith, especially after the Powers Ridge. There was discussion between staff and council members at this point not picked up on the tape. Mayor Mancino: No, we're getting clear direction. The rule that...that we want is number one, that all e-mails, if there are questions asked to staff, that we e-mail so they get every one gets a copy... Now you need to have some discretion. If you get 10 e-mails a day from one of us, you're not going to be able to answer them. And plus that you get even 6 e-mails with a whole hunch of details asked, that's what should be in the staff report. We shouldn't need to come in and do a lot of research. Staff has reviewed...ifwe need to change our staff reports because we need more detail, we need to tell you that as a council. If there's something wrong about the format of our, of the staff report, we as a council feel we need more detail, then we should decide that. Otherwise you guys do the research. You give us... There was discussion by council members at this point that was not picked up on tape. Mayor Mancino: Well, and it's also rules with the staff report. r mean again, we don't want to be doing the research and we don't want to ask so many questions that you're not doing your job, you're answering our questions and they should be in the staff report. There was discussion by council members at this point that was not picked up on tape. Mayor Mancino: Are there any areas in the staff report that council members, that you feel that we need to do more research in. That you can say just very general. Anything to give staff direction? Just anything. I mean everybody feels fine with the way staff reports are done? If you do fine now but please bring to the council work sessions whatever particular areas you think we need to add to our staff report to make it easier for us to understand each one of us. And let's evaluate it. Councilman Engel: Evaluate deciduous trees. Mayor Mancino: Okay, because we kind of got into... Any other directions that we want to give as far as the rules, guidelines, etc? Anybody else? There was discussion by council members at this point that was not picked up on tape. 31 city Council Meeting - March 27, 2000 Mayor Mancino: Wait, wait, wait you guys. Remember one of the things that we said in April that we're going to do is, we're going to talk about, if we do wanted to go through in the changes, what is the vision? What are we ùying to do so that we can give staff good direction as to where it is. Councilman Labatt made a comment at this point. Mayor Mancino: And you guys, I mean to be quite fTank after 8 years, that's still always going to happen. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't say, what's our priority. There was discussion by council members at this point that was not picked up on tape. Councilman Senn moved, Councilman Engel seconded to recess the City Council meeting until Monday, April 3, 2000 at 5:30 p.m. Submitted by Scott Botcher City Manager Prepared by Nann Opheim 32