CC 2014 01 27
CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL
REGULAR MEETING
JANUARY 27, 2014
Mayor Furlong called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. The meeting was opened with the Pledge to
the Flag.
COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT:
Mayor Furlong, Councilman McDonald, Councilwoman
Tjornhom, Councilwoman Ernst, and Councilman Laufenburger
STAFF PRESENT:
Todd Gerhardt, Laurie Hokkanen, Paul Oehme, Kate Aanenson, Todd Hoffman,
and Roger Knutson
PUBLIC PRESENT:
Fred & Brighid Souza 9150 Springfield Drive
Bob Ayotte 6213 Cascade Pass
Charles Liedtke 6231 Hummingbird Road
Doug Koch 9136 Springfield Drive
Tony & Connie Nuss 9140 Springfield Drive
Jamie Heilicher 9280 Kiowa Trail
Leanne & Tom Kelly 9100 Overlook Court
Ron Frigstad 9270 Kiowa Trail
George Ann Lillie 9355 Kiowa Trail
Ed & Jean Sloss 9360 Kiowa Trail
Jessica & Mike Helland 351 Parkland Way
Curt Kubilarcsik 9149 Springfield Drive
Fred & Judy Amrhein 9350 Kiowa Trail
Jo Vicchiollo 583 Springfield Drive
Marilyn Zupnik 6200 Hummingbird Road
Paul Lauerman 9155 Springfield Drive
Linda Nolan 9283 Kiowa Trail
Mike Domke 9361 Kiowa Trail
Joe Galler 9376 Kiowa Trail
Sandy Sweetser 9132 Springfield Drive
Melinda Reiter 9131 Springfield Drive
Phil DeNucci 9186 Springfield Drive
Dang Nguyen 9185 Springfield Drive
Matt & Beth Mason 9198 Springfield Drive
Jeff Erpelding 9061 Springfield Drive
Alex Petrosian 850 Saddlebrook Pass
Krisan Osterby 6271 Hummingbird Road
Chris Duppler 9174 Springfield Drive
Mayor Furlong: Thank you and welcome to everybody here this evening. We’ve got a full council
chambers. Nice to see. And those watching at home as well, we’re glad that all of you joined us this
evening. At this time I would ask members of the council if there are any changes or modifications to the
agenda. If not without objection we’ll proceed with the agenda as published.
Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS:
Mayor Furlong: First item on our agenda this evening, I’d like to make a public announcement for our
upcoming February Festival. The City of Chanhassen is pleased to announce the first community event
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for 2014 which is our 21 Annual February Festival. This is the first in a year long series of special
events sponsored by the City of Chanhassen, our local service organizations and businesses. February
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Festival will be held this coming Saturday, February 1 and I’m pleased to invite all area residents, their
families and friends to come and join us at Lake Ann for a day full of events. Everything kicks off at
noon with ice skating, sledding, sleigh rides, bonfires, medallion hunt, the ice fishing contest, hot food
and concessions will be sold on the ice by the Chanhassen Rotary Club and by Culver’s. Boy Scout
Troop 330 will be selling live bait and s’mores kits. The ice fishing contest will run from 1:00 to 3:00
p.m. and includes over $6,000 in prizes donated from local businesses and other organizations. Each Feb
Fest attendee will receive one free door prize for the event and a chance to win over $3,000 in door prizes.
Ice fishing tickets are $10 a piece, per person and are available at City Hall and some local businesses.
For more information please look in the Chanhassen Villager or visit the city’s website. We look forward
to seeing a great crew out there and this year we don’t have to worry about the thickness of the ice I don’t
think, Mr. Hoffman. So unlike years past, one less concern. Maybe there’s a different one but there
should be a lot of fun. It always is and I hope that a lot of people their families get out there and enjoy
Feb Fest this coming Saturday.
CONSENT AGENDA: Councilman Laufenburger moved, Councilwoman Ernst seconded to
approve the following consent agenda items pursuant to the City Manager’s recommendations:
1. Approval of City Council Minutes dated January 13, 2014.
2. Receive Planning Commission Minutes dated January 7, 2014.
Resolution #2014-05:
3. Approve Resolution in Support of Carver County’s Application for TAP
Funds, Minnesota River Bluffs Trail.
4. Approval of Interim Use Permit for Construction of a Parking Lot and Stormwater Improvements,
Minnetonka Middle School West, 6241 Hazeltine Boulevard.
5. Approval of 2014 Key Financial Strategies.
6. Approval of 2014 Legislative Priorities.
7. Approval of Lease Agreement with AT&T, Minnetonka Middle School West Water Tower.
Resolution #2014-06:
8. Approval of Moving Precinct 5 Polling Location from St. Hubert’s
Church to Living Christ Lutheran Church.
9. Approval of Quote for Disk Storage Array, CIP Item EQ-13.
10. Approval of Temporary On-Sale Liquor Licenses, February Festival and Fourth of July
Celebration, Chanhassen Rotary Club.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS.
None.
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
LAW ENFORCEMENT/FIRE DEPARTMENT UPDATE.
Mayor Furlong: Lt. Jeff Enevold is here, Carver County Sheriff’s Office. Good evening Lieutenant.
Lt. Jeff Enevold: Good evening Mr. Mayor, council. I’ve got a short presentation for you tonight. Looks
like we’ve got a busy night. What I want to do is just take a few minutes here and just kind of review
some of our 2013 accomplishments that occurred, and if we move onto the next one there. The first one
was the drug take back. It works. There we go. Was the drug take back box that we were able to place in
the lobby of City Hall. This has really been a successful program for us. We have to empty this thing
once a week. There’s always people coming in asking where’s the drop box for the prescription drugs.
And as I think about this, you know this thing has been full once a week for the whole year and I wonder
you know where would these drugs be if they weren’t here? Would they be in the schools? Would they
be out in our streets so this is really a wonderful program to get that stuff in here. We take charge of it
and then we take it and incinerate it and destroy it. The next one is, last year we met with all of our
elementary schools. Reviewed their emergency plans we participated in. We evaluated, made
recommendations to all the lock down programs in the schools. Really the goal here was just to try and
normalize the interaction between law enforcement and the kids so that when they saw a cop they
wouldn’t say oh oh, what’s wrong. The cops are here. And we did that by coming to school before they
got there. We greeted the kids as they came to school. After school we stopped by and we said have a
good day and then we got in and we eat lunch with the kids to kind of normalize that interaction so they
feel comfortable with us. It’s been a very positive response from the staff and the parents, the students.
They really appreciate this and we’re going to continue this practice into 2014. And this one you’ve seen
before but I thought this would be a good time to do it because we have the year end stats. Our goal for
the last couple years here is to reduce the thefts, especially in cars and we did that through education.
Through crime alerts. Through crime prevention tips. Extra patrols. Proactive patrols and you’ll see in
the next slide here that we were successful. We were able to reduce Part I thefts by 15% from last year so
our education program continued and my goal is to continue those efforts and that education into this year
and hopefully I can stand up here next year and say we reduced it another 15%. And I figured this would
be a good night because I anticipated kind of a bigger crowd here and maybe I could recruit some of you
folks into the Citizens Academy coming up here. This will be the third one that we’ve offered in
partnership with the City of Chanhassen. We had one in the fall of 2012, spring of 2013 and this one’s
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going to start April 1 of this year. It’s from Tuesday evenings from 6:30 to 9:00. The deadline for
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registration is February 28. There’s no cost to participants. It’s limited to about 15 people so first come
first serve. Sign up tonight. You’ve got to be 18 years of age. Live or work in the city of Chanhassen so
anybody watching at home, anybody in the audience tonight, if you need more information you can see
me or visit.
Mayor Furlong: Lieutenant? Excuse me, before you move on there can you explain a little bit of some of
the activities that the.
Lt. Jeff Enevold: That’s the next slide Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Good, thanks.
Lt. Jeff Enevold: Here are some of the topics that we include. You’ll be able to, I’m sure most people are
familiar with what a taser is so we’ll let you shoot a taser, and we’ll even let you shoot it twice if you had
fun the first time. We have some DWI goggles that we’ll put you through some field sobriety tests to
kind of put you in the, how it feels to be you know drinking and driving and then trying to do those field
sobriety tests. We’ll take you out to our law enforcement training facility and on the right here you’ll see
we have, this is what we call our use of force simulator and we’ll walk you through a scenario where you
may make a traffic stop and you’ll have to make a decision on whether using deadly force. You may be
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
walking into a building and encounter somebody and you’ll have to make a decision. And the one on the
left here is our driving simulator. You’ll be, it’s a 3D. It’s got 3 screens and you’ll be driving and you
may see a traffic violation and you’re going to have to make a decision whether you want to stop that
vehicle. You may end up in a pursuit. It may end up snowing or raining. It’s a lot of fun and we’ve had
great feedback on this from our participants and they’ve really enjoyed the experience. Another thing
we’ll do out at our law enforcement training facility is we’ll set up a mock crime scene. Obviously we’ll
train you up on how to take fingerprints and collect evidence and then we’ll send you in there and you get
to do that. Look for fingerprints. Collect evidence. Take measurements. Make a sketch and then
afterwards we’ll all come together and kind of debrief and find out what you did and you know take a
look at your fingerprints and it’s a lot of fun so again if anyone is interested, I’ve got some information
here. I’ll leave it on the table back here. It’s got my contact information so feel free to do that. And
that’s what I have for you Mr. Mayor. Any questions for me?
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Councilwoman Tjornhom.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: And I’m asking these questions solely just for knowledge of the council
tonight and not as part of the public hearing but because we do have a large crowd here tonight and we do
have an issue that’s pressing for everybody, a lot of those issues were pertaining to safety. Whether it
was safety in their neighborhoods or traffic. Can we just talk a little bit about your thoughts and your
experience with situations like this?
Lt. Jeff Enevold: Well I know some of the concerns were you know extra traffic. Speeding vehicles.
You know reckless drivers.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Correct.
Lt. Jeff Enevold: Whatever it may be. You know looking at the area there I would think that that’s going
to be mostly residential folks. People who live in the neighborhood. They’re going to drive through
there. If it was, if we received any complaints we would treat it like any other neighborhood. You know
there are three steps we do. We contact public works. They’d put the tubes out and it would show us
how fast. What time of day. How many cars are coming through there. That would help us evaluate if
there is a problem and then we would, we have a speed trailer that we could put out there to kind of
educate the folks. And the last step we would do is we would send in directed patrols and that would be
deputies in a squad car to educate and enforce when necessary so we’d treat it like any other
neighborhood where we received a complaint.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: And what is your thoughts on the, the theory that crime would be higher in
these neighborhoods because of the barrier coming down?
Lt. Jeff Enevold: I, in my experience, 24 years in the business, I have no evidence to support that theory.
That that would happen.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Thank you. So I only ask this just because a lot of times these issues come up
and there’s not really your opinion here for that. It’s just what we know and what people might be
imaging happened so I thank you just for that little bit of insight at least.
Lt. Jeff Enevold: You’re welcome.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: On your perspective.
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
Mayor Furlong: You know and to continue along that Councilwoman Tjornhom, Lieutenant if you don’t
mind sticking around.
Lt. Jeff Enevold: Sure, absolutely.
Mayor Furlong: In case there are other questions that come up too with concern to safety.
Lt. Jeff Enevold: Yep, I’d be happy to.
Mayor Furlong: Then you can respond to them at that time.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: If the residents bring some other… Good question, thanks.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Okay.
Mayor Furlong: Any other questions for the Lieutenant? Mr. Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Yes, thank you Mr. Mayor. Nann are you able to hear me alright? Okay.
Lieutenant I’m going to go back to the drug take back thing.
Lt. Jeff Enevold: Yes sir.
Councilman Laufenburger: As I recall we first did this by establishing a day or a couple days a year to do
the drug take back and then it has evolved to, that’s available all the time. Is that correct? Am I
remembering that correct?
Lt. Jeff Enevold: You are correct. We did that in cooperation with the Drug Enforcement Agency. Once
a year we would set up a, down in the senior center we’d have folks come in. It was such a success and
so popular that I talked with the Lieutenant who’s in charge of this and said you know is it possible to get
a drug box up here where it’s open every day where folks can come in and drop it off.
Councilman Laufenburger: Are we unique in having that drug box open all the time, or during business
hours or are other communities around here also doing that?
Lt. Jeff Enevold: Yes, absolutely. Yeah, the City of Chaska. We’ve got one down at the sheriff’s office.
They’re talking about one in Waconia. I know there’s other cities that do this program too.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Well I thank you specifically for that, for being responsive to clearly
what was a demand or a need by the consumers and you say that you incinerate all these prescriptions, is
that correct?
Lt. Jeff Enevold: We do. Yep.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay, wonderful. Alright, thank you Mr. Mayor. Thank you Lieutenant.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Other questions for the Lieutenant? Comments. I’ll pick up the one item
that hasn’t been commented on but that is the work that you’re doing with the elementary schools in the
area.
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
Lt. Jeff Enevold: Yes sir.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you for doing that. I know that was something that we talked about last year. I’m
glad that you were able to do that and I’m, you know developing that relationship. It’s part of that
community policing model that we have talked about.
Lt. Jeff Enevold: Absolutely.
Mayor Furlong: And I think it’s great to be there when things are going well and there aren’t issues so
they’ll be more confident when you’re there so I’m glad to hear you’re going to continue those this
coming year as well.
Lt. Jeff Enevold: Thank you Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Very good. Thank you very much.
Lt. Jeff Enevold: Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Appreciate the update. Chief John Wolff is here. Chanhassen Fire Department. Good
evening Chief.
Chief John Wolff: Good evening Mayor and council members. Just a brief presentation tonight. 2013,
we saw an increase in calls of about 12%. The majority of that occurred in the last 2 months of the year.
Winter hit us early and it hasn’t left yet. I don’t know if anyone’s noticed that but it’s really cold outside
but there is a relationship between winter weather and our call volume and we’re up about 33% for these
last 3 months. But overall for the year 12%. About 573 calls. No particular area driving that change. It
was pretty much across the board and which actually is almost noteworthy because usually there’s
something that drives it when we see those differences in numbers. This year we’ve implemented a new
fire reporting system. It’s hosted by the State of Minnesota. It’s going to save us a little money in the
budget and it’s actually a lot easier to use and really a more effective tool for us so we’re very excited
about that. We started that in January. We’re also refurbishing all of our major fire apparatus. What
we’re doing is we’re replacing the existing seats, and some of our vehicles are over 20 years old and so
the seats needed to be replaced and what this does for us is it really extends the shelf life or the usable
service life of these trucks. We’re also able to bring in some newer technology in terms of how the seats
are designed and they hold our breathing apparatus in a more secure method. It allows us to put the
breathing apparatus on in route to the call instead of when we get there which takes about 30 seconds to a
minute to do that so it will help our response time when we’re responding to fires. We’re also
implementing a new training program this year to teach officer level training down to the firefighter level
and what this does for us is, it basically expands the knowledge of our firefighters with some key
concepts that will help us get our trucks out the door quicker so we’re not waiting on an officer. Because
we are citizen firefighters, we respond to the pager and so, so sometimes it depends on the mix of people
that show up so this will give us more, more robust capability so. And I guess I’ll make a pitch with such
a big audience too. We are citizen firefighters and we start our recruiting efforts this month so you’ll start
seeing some things in the local papers and so forth but we’re interested in anyone 18 years or older that
would like to serve their community and would love to see some folks from this neighborhood perhaps
show some interest and I’ll take any questions from the council.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Questions for Chief Wolff. Chief winter time, cold outside. Houses are,
any current issues that, ice safety may not be one of them right now.
Chief John Wolff: Yeah we’re good.
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
Mayor Furlong: But what are some of the other things that people at home too? Hydrants? Clearing
hydrants.
Chief John Wolff: Yeah clearing hydrants. Couple things. I would say yes. Clearing the hydrants and
right now the snow is really hard packed. When you get the warm up and then the cool down like we
have, it’s really ice so we would appreciate it if the neighbors would clear the hydrants out. That will
save us time when we’re trying to secure water. You know with the talk of this gas shortage, at least
CenterPoint’s talking about it. I don’t think it’s impacted our immediate service area but people are
looking at other alternatives to heating and I would say that you know space heaters and fireplaces, just
you don’t want to leave those unattended and so there is a, some of the activity that we do see are, it’s
related to candles and fire and heating and so forth. And I’d say the final item that winter impacts is
driving and the roads are obviously dangerous when we get the precipitation. I think our public works
and in general the County and Hennepin County and so forth do a great job of clearing the streets but it’s
challenging when the weather is up and down to keep it really clear and dry, especially the secondary and
side streets. So we do see an increase in car accidents during this time of year.
Mayor Furlong: Smoke detectors obviously are required as part of our current building codes. Are the
carbon monoxide detectors, are those useful? Are those recommended?
Chief John Wolff: Very useful. In fact when they started, when they hit you know 12-15 years ago we
got tons of calls on them because people didn’t understand them. Right now that’s, you know that’s,
we’ve gone from like 80-90 CO calls a year to like 25-30 and I think what people need to do is to
remember to change the batteries in their smoke detectors. Even the hard wired smoke detectors have a
battery in them so if you hear that chirping sound, that means that they need the battery to be changed,
and we occasionally get called out to help people to do that so. Happy to do that.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, very good. Thank you. Appreciate the update.
Chief John Wolff: You bet.
Mayor Furlong: Move now to our first item under business.
HUMMINGBIRD HEIGHTS, 6221 HUMMINGBIRD ROAD, APPLICANT: HOMESTEAD
PARTNERS:
A. PUBLIC HEARING TO CONSIDER METES AND BOUNDS SUBDIVISION.
B. CONSIDER APPROVAL OF DEVELOPMENT CONTRACT.
Mayor Furlong: Let’s start with a staff report please and then we’ll invite the public or interested parties
to come up with any comments. Ms. Aanenson, good evening.
Kate Aanenson: Good evening Mayor. Thank you. Members of the City Council. This is a metes and
bounds subdivision. Metes and bounds is a way to subdivide a piece of property. The public hearing is
held before the City Council as opposed to the Planning Commission. The City Council can approve
them when it’s splitting one lot into two, that has urban services or sewer and water is available, and both
lots meet the minimum requirements so this metes and bounds subdivision meets that criteria. The
location is Hummingbird Road which is just immediately to the west of Galpin Boulevard.
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
Mayor Furlong: Yeah, Nann can you check the volume in the council chambers. I’m not sure if we’re
getting the speakers in the council chambers are working. I’m sorry, Laurie. I’m not sure if the sounds
coming over the speakers or not.
Kate Aanenson: It doesn’t sound like it.
Mayor Furlong: Why don’t you just try to speak a little louder and we’ll see if we can’t keep up.
Kate Aanenson: Again I’m talking about where the location of it is right off of Galpin Boulevard.
Excuse me, just east, west of Galpin Boulevard off of Hummingbird. This property is, abuts the city of
Shorewood. Thank you. I think we’ve got the.
Mayor Furlong: I think it’s working now.
Kate Aanenson: It’s working. This subdivision actually dates back to the, the Melody Hill subdivision
actually dates back to 1884. Again this includes the Shorewood portion and the Chanhassen portion so it
was originally 23 lots that were included with the plat and I wanted to give a little bit of history of this
area. So I wanted to show within this area, again the limits would be, this is the city limits right here so
within this area there’s been 3 other subdivisions over time and I won’t go into any order necessarily.
Just kind of going around and the Evelyn Lohr subdivision created 2 lots into 3 lots and that would be in
this area here. And then there was one done in 1978, Murray Hill that actually platted 2 lots into 5. And
then in 1979 the Gallagher subdivision. When this originally was platted this was actually kind of an
exception but then these got platted into the backs of the lots and so those 5 lots got converted into 6 lots
so the subject lot that we’re talking about is this property right here. So the existing conditions on the
property itself, the lot is wooded as it goes down towards Galpin and is steep towards the back. The
City’s bluff ordinance does come into play here and so the setbacks from these houses would then be
closer to the street then the existing development pattern which is in place right now. Some of the lots
would be actually in today’s rules in the bluff ordinance. The other existing condition is the 30 foot wide
street. Actually when this was platted, it’s a 80 foot wide right-of-way which is non-typical for
residential street but it’s a 30 foot, 31 foot wide existing without curb and gutter. We do have other
situations in the city where this exists without the curb and gutter on some of the older streets.
Engineering department did look on, look at the condition of the street but considering the condition of
the road, the developing nature of the area and anticipated traffic volume, they felt that the portion of this
road could remain in the condition it is so I guess you know there’s situations like this in the Carver
Beach area where we have narrower roads without curb and gutter also. So again the metes and bounds
then would create the two lots. Again they meet the minimum frontage per the city ordinance. Just over
90 feet of frontage and then in addition they meet the area required, just under an acre. The sewer would
come from, there’s an existing sewer in the street right now. One connection. Another connection would
have to be made and they would have to pay the fees for that. Stormwater management. We’re looking
at putting in a couple of rain gardens towards the front of the homes to accommodate the runoff that way
and then in the back, because of the heavily wooded area and in order to accommodate that, the
preservation of the trees helping stabilize the eroding to Galpin Boulevard. We’re recommending a
preservation area so those trees would stay. Again that helps with the extraction, absorption of some of
that runoff so the house would be in the front, again closer to the street as I had mentioned earlier.
Stormwater fees are shown in the staff report. That would include that requirement. In parks and open
space, again they’re required when you subdivide to pay an additional park fee so that would be required
with the project. Because this does meet all the standards then as proposed here, it does meet all the
standards of the City’s zoning ordinance and standards, we are recommending approval with the
conditions in the staff report. The tree preservation area shown here so the houses again would be closer
than the existing houses that are in the subdivision. Again staying outside of that bluff area. So with that
we are recommending approval. Also in your packet is a development contract so we are recommending
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
approval of the metes and bounds subdivision subject to all the conditions and approving the Findings of
Fact and also approving the Development Contract and I’d be happy to answer any questions that you
have.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Questions for staff. Mr. Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Mayor. Kate, thank you for the presentation. Just to clarify.
This request for metes and bounds subdivision requires no variances, is that correct?
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay, so what they’re asking to do is fully within the ordinances that are
currently in place within the city of Chanhassen?
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct.
Councilman Laufenburger: Alright, thank you very much. Thank you Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any other questions? Ms. Aanenson, you’ve commented a couple times
that the new homes on these two parcels if it’s approved would be closer to the street than the current
homes.
Kate Aanenson: Yes.
Mayor Furlong: What’s the distance between the edge of the right-of-way on these parcels to the bluff?
Do you know? And if it’s in the staff report maybe.
Kate Aanenson: Not the top. Typically you require a minimum of 20 feet but they’ve got more,
significantly more than that.
Mayor Furlong: And I guess my question is, how much space is there between the right-of-way and the
bluff or the bluff setback? What is the bluff setback? Setback from the bluff.
Kate Aanenson: Kind of the buildable area?
Mayor Furlong: Right. Usually we put a square on the map.
Kate Aanenson: Yep. It’s going to be in excess of probably, like 125 feet.
Mayor Furlong: From the right-of-way back to the bluff setback?
Kate Aanenson: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, so that’s almost the distance of a normal lot in a low density residential?
Kate Aanenson: Correct. Yes, yes.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Kate Aanenson: That would be a standard lot size.
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
Mayor Furlong: And the party building the homes would be able to choose anywhere within the setbacks
where they place it.
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct so.
Mayor Furlong: Okay so it has to be.
Kate Aanenson: As long as they meet the requirements, the 30 in the front. The setback from the bluff
and 10 on each side they would have that flexibility.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright. So they might be further back than what this picture is showing or they
might be where this picture is.
Kate Aanenson: Correct. We do ask for a representation and that’s all this is, is illustrative
representation.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright. Thank you. Mr. Oehme, with regard to the traffic on Hummingbird.
It’s a narrow road. What’s available there, and I’m asking this not so much for new construction on these
parcels but also knowing that there’s a subdivision or PUD going forward on the city of Shorewood side
as well where there’ll be a few more homes. What’s the traffic along that road currently and what do we
expect it might be if both go forward?
Paul Oehme: Sure, thank you Mayor, city council members. Staff was not able to take traffic counts this
time of year.
Mayor Furlong: Sure, okay.
Paul Oehme: It’s next to impossible so, and typically in the winter months you don’t get an accurate
traffic count readings anyway. Sure, okay so we estimated using traffic generated numbers. The standard
typical numbers so right now we’re estimating in the Chanhassen side about 115 trips per day based upon
existing houses that are currently out there today so with the addition of two houses we’re inbetween you
know 14 and maybe 20 trips per day on average.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Paul Oehme: In addition.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, and then I guess the question too is with the, with the construction of the new
homes that will take place at some point in the future, if all these are approved, what, how do we handle
compliance and making sure, especially during the road restriction period that the vehicles aren’t too
heavy for the roads regardless of whether the construction’s being done in the Chanhassen or the
Shorewood side, and how is that handled?
Paul Oehme: So in every neighborhood that has local road, typical strengths where the roadway is about
5 tons or less, the City’s public works department puts out flags and there are signs out notifying the
public and construction haulers that these roads are, are less than, you know the minimum axle
requirement for construction vehicles or delivery trucks or those type of things so there is enforcement
available through Carver County and our CSO’s department where we can have the ability to ticket
vehicles that are overweight. We do work with the building department and make sure that and during
road restriction timeframes you know certain activities during construction are limited to certain sized
vehicles too so that’s another component that we also work with as well.
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright, thank you. Any other questions for staff? If not then I would like to
open up the public hearing and invite all interested parties to come forward and address the council on
this matter. If you could state your name and address for the record I’d appreciate that.
Charles Liedtke: And I had a presentation I’d like to have queued up.
Mayor Furlong: And your name and address sir?
Charles Liedtke: My name is Charles Liedtke and I live at 6231 Hummingbird Road. My property as
you say abuts Hummingbird Heights.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Charles Liedtke: If you can start slide one that’d be great. Thank you Mayor, council members and staff
for giving me the opportunity to present. I am proud to call Chanhassen my home. Now I’d like to
introduce you to Murray Hill. Now there’s a larger story then is being told here tonight and I’d like to
paint a bigger picture. Welcome to Murray Hill. This is, if you’re in Shorewood coming up Summit
you’re going to see this view in the fall. It’s very beautiful and I’m going to discuss Hummingbird
Heights which is the topic of discussion but also Summit Woods. They are two developments. Same
builder/developer and my opinion is you cannot disentangle the two so in order to make one decision you
have to really take into consideration both developments. To not do so I believe would be irresponsible
and so I’d like to put that on the public record. Here we’re approaching the summit. Currently there is a
wonderful old farmhouse on, at the top of Summit Hill. Part of the property we are developing tonight
with Hummingbird Heights is part of the Rix’s property. There are 3 pieces which you should know
about. There’s what I’ll call the north section and that’s kind of the upper left in the red, and I’d use the
laser pointer but I definitely do not want to blind the City Attorney or the City Manager. That would not
help my cause so I’m going to refrain. I will just describe it if I could. So we have a north section. We
also have Summit Woods which is a PUD considered by Shorewood and we have Hummingbird Heights
which is the lower red rectangle there and that resides in Chanhassen.
Councilman Laufenburger: Excuse me, Mr. Liedtke for reference can you just direct us to your property
please?
Charles Liedtke: My property is just south, which is again I don’t want to blind anyone but if you can see
it.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay.
Charles Liedtke: It’s right there. 6231 Hummingbird Road.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay, thank you.
Charles Liedtke: So I live right next door to the proposed Hummingbird Heights. And I’ll say it’s a tale
of two cities. The Rix’s property is complex. It spans two cities and it spans two counties. Why that is
problematic from a development standpoint is that details can fall through the cracks. You can make
decisions regarding the Chanhassen side. Of course we’ve met repeatedly with Shorewood officials.
They can make decisions regarding the Shorewood side but I’m hoping at some point the mayors and
council members of the two cities meet to discuss this because truly you simply cannot disentangle the
two properties when making decisions. Our group, I belong to the Murray Hill neighborhood group and
our homes are identified with the yellow rectangles, although I will state I am not speaking on behalf of
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
the entire group tonight. I am speaking on behalf of myself and my family tonight solely because our
entire group did not have time to meet and approve the presentation, although some of the other members
are here today and I know that they agree with my sentiments. But when the Summit Woods PUD came
before the Shorewood City Council all of the homes in rectangles opposed that PUD. That contains 4
homes with the option of a fifth, and that’s not Hummingbird Heights but I’m just telling you it is
adjacent to the Hummingbird Heights proposal. I want to say loudly and clearly, and I’ll probably repeat
it twice because it has not seem to have been heard before by city officials in Shorewood. We are not
opposed to development. Pause. Again we are not opposed to development. But we are hoping that it is
intelligent development. That’s all we ask for. Hummingbird Heights is shown in yellow here and we
also show the other properties with acreages in the Chanhassen segment. We enjoy large acreages but
also large distances between the homes. That’s part of the current state. We have very narrow roads. I
think, I forget what it is on Hummingbird but I’ll show you pictures. Extremely narrow on Hummingbird
and Hummingbird runs kind of from bottom to top. It then turns into, when you hit Shorewood Summit
Avenue which is a blind curve which goes down a very steep hill so we have very narrow roads
throughout the entire neighborhood. We also have historically drainage problems and that ends up, water
runs downhill as you know. Follow the blue arrows, flooding down on these homes right here. More
pavement up top will result in more flooding problems down below. We also, I’m showing with the
yellow arrows very steep bluffs and I applaud the City of Chanhassen. I’m very proud of this. You have
a bluff ordinance that’s shown by the green line. You protect your bluff. Notice that green line stops
once you hit Shorewood. They have no such bluff ordinance and that’s where we’ve run into problems.
We’ve run into the problem of inconsistency along that ridge so it’s a very complex neighborhood. We
also have down below on the other side of Galpin, again hard to see but the blue indicates we have
wetlands. Now Summit Woods, which is the middle red area plus that north section, that’s 4 to 5 homes.
There has been a conditional use permit or PUD approved in the concept stage by the same developer and
builder. That’s in addition to what you’re considering tonight which is 2 additional homes. So the entire
package, if it were in one jurisdiction, we’d be looking at 6 to 7 additional homes. I would like to expand
your thinking. It’s more than 2. The decision involves more than just the 2. So 6 to 7 homes total.
That’s what we’re encountering and we live there. This is a view from my property across the horse
pasture currently, and I know I don’t own the view and I’ve expected development for a long time. The
future with Hummingbird Heights and Summit Woods, it’s going to be 6 to 7 new homes. Now these are
not drawn to scale but in that space will be 6 to 7 new homes. This is Hummingbird Road facing south
roughly from the property that you’re considering. We have a beautiful road, which we love. It’s simply
very narrow and you can see here when the UPS truck drops off parcels, you can simply not get through.
This is in Chanhassen. We love that road. It’s simply not passable if you have big trucks on it. Now
imagine construction trucks on that road. Not just from the 2 homes that you’re considering, but the
additional 4 to 5 homes from Summit Woods. Now they’ll unlikely take Summit Avenue, which is a very
steep, substandard road on a blind curve. Those construction trucks will most likely come down your
street, which is our street in Chanhassen and notice if there is any kind of construction trucks it is simple
impassable. So some of my major concerns. Surprisingly neither the property owner nor the developer
/builder has contacted me to discuss either Hummingbird Heights or Summit Woods. I live next door to
Hummingbird Heights. I would expect some consideration or respect. I have not heard from them.
Traffic. It will be busier. Your analysis surprised me. I did not take into consideration the additional 4 to
5 homes so you can take your numbers and take them times 2 or 3 with respect. These roads will be more
dangerous. In terms of road degradation, 6 to 7 homes, those construction trucks will most likely not go
up and down Summit Avenue, which is very steep and substandard. It will come down your road, which
is my road which is Hummingbird Road. This will degrade the road and who will pay for that I’d like to
know. I’ve mentioned the drainage issue. We’ve had a history of flooding. More pavement. More
drainage. More flooding. And then if it matters, the aesthetics. These homes will be 6 to 7 side by side.
Very narrow distances between the homes. That is clearly out of character with our charming
neighborhood so the aesthetics just do not support this type of development. My request, I respectfully
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
request and I am, again I am proud to be a citizen of Chanhassen. I respectfully request that you address
my concerns and work closely with the Shorewood mayor and city council. Thank you so much.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you Mr. Liedtke. Can you pull back up the list of concerns there. With regard to
the road degradation issue there. What is the, what’s the condition of the road currently? What’s the
weight capacity for that road? Is it a normal weight capacity road or?
Paul Oehme: It’s an older road. It’s, we checked the pavement condition and it’s fairly good condition
right now. I think it’s a 70 pci so that rates out fairly well. We did reconstruct a lot of roadways in that
neighborhood just last summer and based upon our analysis that Hummingbird Road did not need
reconstruction at that time so. In terms of, the road condition. Moving forward with the construction,
staff does have in the development contract a letter of credit that the developer will need to provide for
the City if there is any street damage associated with the street so either the developer would have to fix
that or the City would charge him for that and we would fix it ourselves so there is some flexibility there
or some contingencies in the project for that.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, thank you. Anyone else who would like to address the council on this?
Jason Mills: Can I speak?
Mayor Furlong: Please come to the podium. State your name and address.
Jason Mills: Hi council, mayor. My name is Jason Mills. I live at 6281 Hummingbird Road. I live just
to the south of Charles by I think 3 homes.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Jason Mills: To the south of him and I’m going to be very brief and I have to apologize because I think
there’s going to, well the reason why I want to apologize to you is because you’re in for a long night.
Unfortunately I’m sorry because there’s a few others from my neighborhood that want to speak.
Mayor Furlong: That’s fine. We’re here to listen.
Jason Mills: Okay. And I’m going to make myself brief. Mine’s going to be short.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Jason Mills: I just want to make it aware that it’s obvious, and I think to all of you here tonight that our
neighborhood project is a little bit challenging. There’s the neighbors that don’t agree with what’s going
on. It’s a very historic site up there so there’s a lot of people that are emotional about it.
Mayor Furlong: Understand.
Jason Mills: We went through the whole thing with the City of Shorewood. The Planning Commission
and the City Council and asked them to not approve this PUD concept that the developer, JMS Builders
and Homestead have put together and it went through, which is okay. Alright?
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Jason Mills: I understand that you know progress is progress and money is money and so forth. I’ve met
with the, I had a meeting with Alex over here who’s probably going to speak tonight as well and JMS
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
Builders and Homestead and Steve Bona who’s a very nice guy. I like him. He’s reasonable. Okay?
And I read the document earlier today. Is it Kathy I think that maybe you put that together and I got the
feeling that it was nice to see and refreshing to see that I felt like, that they’re watching out for us, and
that’s all I want to ask of you as everybody here is just to be careful. Look out for us. There’s some
details obviously that there’s some issues, okay?
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Jason Mills: Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, thank you.
Jason Mills: That’s basically it.
Mayor Furlong: Appreciate it Mr. Mills.
Jason Mills: Yeah.
Mayor Furlong: And we’ll continue to listen to other comments. Mr. Knutson, City Attorney. For us,
for other people here, the issue before us tonight is the metes and bounds subdivision, is that correct?
Roger Knutson: That is correct.
Mayor Furlong: And so we understand there’s a development going on in Shorewood. What’s our role in
that development or that process?
Roger Knutson: We have no legal role in their development in their city.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Roger Knutson: Expand a bit. Tonight what you have is what we call a quasi judicial decision for the
council to make. That means we have standards in our ordinance and if those standards in our ordinance
are met, then by law we are required to approve the metes and bounds subdivision. So the question is, are
the standards in our ordinance, the requirements in our ordinance met? That’s the issue.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. And with that direction, and maybe I should have started at the beginning.
Usually I don’t let people come back up but that would be a question or the issue that we’d ask the public
to address tonight is whether or not they’re aware of violations of the proposed subdivision, the metes and
bounds subdivision in the Chanhassen city, if there are violations of our city code or things that we’re not
aware of. Ms. Aanenson, her presentation said that in her opinion the planning staff commission, they are
in compliance with our code so it’s important that if somebody believes that there is a violation, that that
be addressed tonight. But with that the public hearing is still open. I would certainly invite anyone else
to come forward, or if you want to come back and address that one question Mr. Liedtke.
Charles Liedtke: So I assume you have a Comprehensive Plan?
Mayor Furlong: Yes we do.
Charles Liedtke: Are you obligated or is the spirit of your efforts to take into consideration what’s
happening in surrounding communities? Are you obligated to take that into legal consideration?
Whether it’s the legality of the law or the spirit of the law.
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
Mayor Furlong: Mr. Knutson or Ms. Aanenson?
Roger Knutson: What we are required to do is approve something if it complies with our subdivision and
zoning ordinance and deny it if it does not.
Charles Liedtke: I guess I’m not sure that’s an answer to my question.
Kate Aanenson: Maybe I can take a shot at it.
Charles Liedtke: Are you obligated to consider what’s happening in the surrounding areas?
Roger Knutson: Unless, we’re obligated not to consider it unless it impacts on our ordinance
requirements. You would have to sit, we’d have to find an ordinance, a provision in one of our
ordinances that says because of that we can’t approve it.
Charles Liedtke: Would that include health, safety and welfare?
Roger Knutson: We’d have to be more specific than that.
Charles Liedtke: Safety meaning safety on the streets by Hummingbird Heights and planned other
developments.
Roger Knutson: You’d have to find something in our ordinance they’re violating.
Charles Liedtke: Okay, thank you so much.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Kate Aanenson: I was just going to add one other thing.
Mayor Furlong: Ms. Aanenson, please.
Kate Aanenson: The only time, we do talk between the cities of what’s going on and that’s when we do
our Comprehensive Plan process so this is guided low density. As long as there’s a lot of different
iterations of the subdivision just as in the city ordinance if it’s low density. We also do PUD’s in low
density. We have a number of them in town. There’s several different zoning districts so as long as
they’re consistent with their zoning they wouldn’t, we wouldn’t have a say. If they were to rezone it or
to, or not rezone it but change the guiding to a higher density or something like that, then they would ask
us for comments on that but otherwise we wouldn’t comment on that.
Charles Liedtke: Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: And Ms. Aanenson, what is the zoning on the Shorewood side of this property?
Kate Aanenson: Low density. Similar to our’s.
Mayor Furlong: So it’s the same on both sides.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah. Yeah, I don’t know what their low density is but their plan going forward uses
the low density residential.
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Others that would like to comment as part of the public hearing. Sir,
please come forward.
Alex Petrosian: Mayor, City Council members. My name is Alex Petrosian and I own two properties on
this proposed, around this proposed subdivision. One property I have it’s, it’s in Shorewood right next to
the subdivision.
Mayor Furlong: Is that your address of record? Or is that your residential address or what is your address
please?
Alex Petrosian: My address it’s 6300 Hummingbird Road.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you.
Alex Petrosian: I have two properties in that particular.
Mayor Furlong: That’s fine, thank you.
Alex Petrosian: Okay. And tonight I would like to, there’s a lot of good things have already been said
and I’ll try not to repeat what already have been said.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you.
Alex Petrosian: And I fully agree that if it meets the low then that’s what you need to do.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Alex Petrosian: With that I’m going to read some of my letter and I’m sorry I didn’t give you one. I will
give you after. After that. I’m a long time resident of our city and I’m writing to express my support for
the proposed development and submit some additional thoughts for consideration. Based on my review
of the document I have following comments and recommendations that I would like City Council
members to consider before their final approval. Number one. I applaud the hard work of staff who have
prepared such a detailed and comprehensive overview of the details associated with this proposal. It’s
superb. I would also like to encourage staff to continue working with the neighboring City of Shorewood
in regard to the development as one big area, especially with regards to road usage, traffic issues, density,
water runoff, erosion control, setbacks, etc. Number 2. I would like to concentrate on Hummingbird
Road itself. The current conditions and size of Hummingbird Road is sufficient to support current
neighborhood traffic and needs. I have concern that construction traffic that is required to build 7 houses,
2 in Chanhassen and 5 in Shorewood, will cause premature road deterioration that will impose financial
burden in form of assessments to entire neighborhood along Hummingbird Road. And since premature
deterioration will be triggered by developer, builder activities I feel that it would be reasonable to ask for
the developer and builder to be responsible for and to, one. Pay for resurface of entire Hummingbird
Road after construction of 6 houses just to bring road to current state. No improvements. Two, pay to
restore vegetations 3 feet from each side of the road disturbed by construction traffic since there is no two
trucks can pass each other without getting on the side of the road. Pay for damages to fence, mailboxes
and any other personal property caused by construction traffic. And last, for the remaining future possible
one house on the Shorewood side I would suggest you have funds in escrow account to pay for the repairs
if they occur in the future. B. The construction traffic that requires to build 7 houses in my opinion will
elevate safety concerns due to increased traffic by contractors and subcontractor employees. For current
proposal, construction hours are between 7:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. on weekdays. On weekends. On
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
weekdays. Apologies. From 9:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. on Saturday with no such activity allowed on
Sundays or on a legal holidays, end of quote. …narrow road and with number of children, 25 plus, living
on this road school patterns when children leave for school buses and traffic associated with parents that
need to drive children to school. I have a concern for safety of the children and general population during
early allowed construction hours. Please also note that Minnetonka middle school children in the
neighborhood do not ride the bus and are walking on Hummingbird and Melody Hill to reach Minnetonka
Middle School. I would like to propose amendment to what Bob sent us to read. Quote, 8:00 a.m. to 6:00
p.m. on weekends. From 9:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. on Saturdays and no such activities allowed on Sundays
or legal holidays. All construction related traffic shall be restricted between 7:00 a.m. and 9:00 a.m. and
3:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. on weekdays. End of quote. Third thing I would like to make. It’s around
grading and erosion control. As indicated in memorandum to City Manager by City Senior Planner, the
proposed rain gardens it reads that currently quote, proposed concentrated flow…discharge points, end of
quote are not allowed. And that…there are known erosion issues along Galpin Avenue. End of quote.
Furthermore it is indicated that developer did not provide any design or specifications for rain gardens to
mitigate erosion problems. I’m questioning if approval of subdivision process is premature and should be
put on hold until A. All necessary required and additional information is collected from developer and
evaluated by the staff of City of Chanhassen. B. Developer provide grading and erosion control plan
which satisfies minimum threshold rules and complies with the requirement under National Pollution
Discharge Elimination System. C. Since rain gardens require periodic maintenance of native plantings
this cannot be guaranteed under private home ownership. Future owners must be notified about rain
gardens on the property prior to purchase and agree to perform all required maintenance, otherwise it
might become a burden to our city. And last point is about, I have a question about stormwater
management. It’s about the preservation easement. Is this easement, is in addition to the current bluff
ordinances or does it supersede or replace it?
Kate Aanenson: It’s on top of so there’s a bluff protection. In addition to we’re taking a preservation
easement across the back.
Alex Petrosian: Okay, so it is a bluff.
Kate Aanenson: And an addition.
Alex Petrosian: In addition to the bluff. Thank you very much. I urge you to move forward but with
slight delay on approval until subsequent council meetings provided that A. Road provision are put in
place. B. Safety issues addressed. C. Erosion and stormwater management issues are addressed and D.
All recommendation of staff be followed by the developer. Please let me know if you have any questions
that I can answer for you. Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you.
Alex Petrosian: And Mr. Mayor, if I may give you.
Mayor Furlong: Oh that’d be great, thank you. Mr. Oehme, with regard to the road, and if just wait a
minute. I want to try to get his questions while they’re fresh. With regard to the width of the road,
construction traffic, in addition to trucks delivering materials. There’ll be construction workers that are
there. What provisions are in place to, is it possible to do?
Paul Oehme: This project, sure. Yeah I think it is just based upon the roadway right-of-way in this area.
It’s about 80 feet wide so the road is about 16 feet wide. The houses, you know we try to work with the
builder and the developer to try to have as much of the construction traffic on site as much as we can and
the building department I think does a great job of you know trying to help out with traffic control in
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
these situations. Carver Beach area I think is a good example of an area that we deal with this on a yearly
basis so I feel fairly confident that you know the staff can manage and work with the developer on
necessary traffic control measures to make sure the road’s open during construction. I don’t know that
the timing of when all these houses are going to be built. Typically they build one right after another so
there’s, I don’t think they’re all going to go up at the same time so there’s some sequencing there that we
may have to talk to the developer about as well too just to make sure we understand how things are going
to be developed if this project were to move forward.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, alright. Thank you. Ms. Aanenson with regard to grading and erosion control
plans. Are those required as part of our ordinances?
Kate Aanenson: Yes and there are conditions of approval on those so they are addressed as conditions.
Mayor Furlong: They are addressed in the proposed resolution?
Kate Aanenson: Yes. Yes. Yes.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Paul Oehme: And Mayor that’s part of the final plan set too. The erosion control documentation.
Making sure that the developer pulls their NPDES permit. We always have a letter of credit and we have
on site inspectors inspecting to make sure the silt fence goes in properly and is maintained over the length
of the construction period.
Kate Aanenson: Yes. So typically no construction starts until that’s been inspected to make sure that the
preservation fencing is up. Erosion control’s in place before a permit’s issued.
Mayor Furlong: Alright. And with regard to hours of operation it was suggested that there be some
changes to that. What has been the experience?
Kate Aanenson: The only place we restrict as far as really restricting a development, in the development
contract and that’s typically for the utilities but once it’s a homeowner, similarly it would be for anybody
in that neighborhood. We have hours of construction but those are pretty, a deviation from those. But
anybody in that neighborhood if they were working on their own deck or working on their own house
would follow those same rules and we stay consistent to that. Often times we found working in other
neighborhoods, get it up. Get it done seems to work. We do have limited Sunday hours. I don’t have
those hours in front of me. They’re online and the sheriff’s office is great if there’s calls on that but if
somebody has a concern that they’re working outside of those hours but I think that’d be pretty difficult to
try to work through that. Again it would be anybody else in the same neighborhood working under those
conditions.
Mayor Furlong: Would have the same limitations.
Kate Aanenson: Would have the same restrictions, exactly.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Alright, thank you. Question Mr. Laufenburger? Clarification.
Councilman Laufenburger: Yeah just a clarification. Mr. Oehme you talked about letter of credit from
the developer regarding road improvement. Are you comfortable that the amount of the letter of credit
would cover the situations that Mr. Petrosian is referring to, including future development? Like a year or
two years or something like that.
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
Paul Oehme: The letter of credit that we have for this project is our typical request for improvements. I
think it will cover a majority of the situation that potentially can occur with developments of this type so
you know we could have asked for more but I think under this situation I think it should cover us.
Councilman Laufenburger: Is it reasonable to assume that the developer, I like Mr. Petrosian’s words,
return the roadway to it’s pre-construction or pre-development condition. Is that a reasonable request?
Let me ask it differently. Is that something that the city staff can manage to?
Paul Oehme: It’s very difficult to I think you know document that unless there’s some big alligators or
alligatored areas or.
Councilman Laufenburger: You’re referring to a road terminology, not reptiles right?
Paul Oehme: Exactly.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay.
Paul Oehme: So if there’s definite areas that have sustained damage that you can see on the surface, you
know that’s the things that we’ll work with the developer on addressing after the development or the
houses are to be built so you know we’ll do the final inspection and make sure that the roads as near
existing conditions as they were prior to the development.
Councilman Laufenburger: This wasn’t asked by Mr. Petrosian but does the City of Chanhassen have
experience with this developer? This builder. Do you know Kate?
Kate Aanenson: Yes they’ve done other small developments in town.
Councilman Laufenburger: And have we had any cooperative, cooperation problems with them in the
past to the best of your recollection?
Kate Aanenson: Not to the best of my knowledge.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Alrighty. Thank you Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Yes.
Councilwoman Ernst: Paul, can you tell me how the drainage issue, the runoff issue is being addressed?
Paul Oehme: Yeah. The plan right now with, in terms of the stormwater management for the
development is going to change a little bit based upon water resources staff’s review of the preliminary
plan that’s submitted. The plan needs to meet our infiltration rate and MS4 permit and then also
Minnehaha Creek Watershed District’s requirements as well so we’re working on that design. It’s not
completed at this time but it’s one of the requirements in the development contract that they have to meet
our stormwater runoff requirements. Basically infiltrating or retaining that first one inch rain event on
site.
Councilwoman Ernst: Okay, thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Yes?
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
Alex Petrosian: I would like to address that question about…
Mayor Furlong: If you could come up to the microphone. We’re having some trouble with our speakers
and microphones tonight so if everybody, staff included, can speak really loud when they’re talking that
would be helpful. Real quickly.
Alex Petrosian: Sure. I would like to provide clarifications to the hours of operation that I asked for. I’m
not asking to stop the construction in those hours by no means. I’m asking to stop the traffic at that time
because the children walking around the street. Thank you. And there is hours of working on Sunday for
your contract. Yeah, thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, thank you. Anyone else who would like to, ma’am. Please. Thank you for
waiting.
Marilyn Zupnik: My name is Marilyn Zupnik. I live at 6200 Hummingbird Road and thank you for
letting me speak.
Mayor Furlong: You’re welcome.
Marilyn Zupnik: I’m speaking because we live directly across the two lots in Chanhassen. We’ve lived
there since 1990 when we built our house and I would like to say that I’m in agreement with my
neighbors that have spoken already. I agree with their points and I just want to say that I’m not opposed
to houses being built across the street from us. We’ve expected this for a long time as has already been
expressed. I’m concerned about the housing density and I understand it’s an unusual situation crossing
the county line there and that we’re only talking about the Chanhassen portion right now tonight. I’m
concerned about the increase in traffic which will come from the Shorewood homes. It probably will be 5
houses. It’s 4 now in the PUD and it probably, there was a fifth house for the future proposed so
concerned about the traffic and my thought is that, about the setbacks of the houses and you’ve addressed
that already tonight and I’m just concerned about, with houses being built too close to the road and after
the lots are sold and could a builder, could an owner put something really close to the road and would it
be possible for there to be communication between the two cities regarding the setbacks and how they’re
going to fit next to each other and I think that just one last comment is that the, there’s over 4 point, 4
acres. I think it’s 4.3 or something that is the, I think that’s maybe the Shorewood portion and more here.
I’m not sure of the exact amount. We have over 1 acre per house average and there’s a lot of space
between the houses and the acreage I believe is similar in the new proposal but the area where the houses
are proposed is just a small portion of that area so that’s 7 houses crowded into a small area and to me at 2
houses, is 1 house too much across the street.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Marilyn Zupnik: I think this is one proposal and that there are other options that could be very beautiful
with fewer houses and my hope is that we get a win win situation for everybody in the end. Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Thank you. Appreciate those comments. With regard to the setbacks Mr. Zupnik
mentioned. The setback, explain what the setbacks are and especially from the.
Kate Aanenson: Sure. May I go back to the preservation. Again there has been subdivisions up in this
area and future subdivisions could occur so while we look at what’s happening today, you know we
always have to think in the future so this area has not been given the purview of the bluff ordinance
because we’ve adopted it since then so really what we’re trying to do, there’s a lot of erosion in this area
so this developer is being held to that restriction.
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
Mayor Furlong: I’m sorry, clarify that for me. You’re saying the existing homes were built prior to.
Kate Aanenson: Our bluff ordinance.
Mayor Furlong: The bluff ordinance and the bluff ordinance includes setbacks.
Kate Aanenson: So there’s a lot of erosion, right. Setbacks so we don’t have the erosion.
Mayor Furlong: To avoid erosion.
Kate Aanenson: So these 2 lots are being held to a higher development standard of staying out of the
bluff. And on top of that we’re trying to, we’re preserving that so all the trees stay because the trees on
the preservation area help with the extraction. Paul talked about, the City Engineer talked about reducing
the volume of water so the trees would absorb that so there’s less velocity as it’s going down. We don’t
have preservations on those other areas and control so, then the rain gardens on the front and those other
issues that will be to reduce so this developer’s being held to a standard that the other homes that went in
in that area aren’t being held to. So within that, I’m sorry.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, go ahead.
Kate Aanenson: Then within that building envelope they have the right to build within that. The 30 foot
setback. Again as we indicated there, while the pavement is the 16 feet, there’s a significant setback
before you get to the property line.
Mayor Furlong: Well and that was one of my questions.
Kate Aanenson: So it’s a little deceptive.
Mayor Furlong: I heard, I read in the report there’s an 80 foot right-of-way here.
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct.
Mayor Furlong: Do we know, is the existing blacktop, is that about in the middle of the right-of-way?
Kate Aanenson: If you can see on this, it’s pretty much centered.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. So quick math, that means that the right-of-way includes, and never do math in
an open council meeting. Rule number one. 64 feet of right-of-way that doesn’t include the actual hard
surface so if the road’s in the middle, we’ve got 32 feet.
Kate Aanenson: From the property.
Mayor Furlong: So if I’m understanding correctly, from the edge of the curve of the road, 32 feet gets
you to end of the right-of-way and then the setback is from that right-of-way another 30 feet before.
Kate Aanenson: Minimum of 30. It could go back further.
Mayor Furlong: Minimum of 30. It could go back further.
Kate Aanenson: Correct.
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
Mayor Furlong: As long as it doesn’t go too far back into the bluff setback.
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Okay. Alright. Thank you. Mr. Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Kate what about the comment of Ms. Zupnik regarding future buildings after
the homes are in? Would those future buildings like a shed or a lawn mower or, could they be built
within that 30 foot setback from the house to the right-of-way?
Kate Aanenson: No. Our city ordinance doesn’t allow accessory structures in the front yard setback.
Councilman Laufenburger: Perfect. Alright, thank you. So the same setbacks that govern the building of
the home would govern the building of accessory structures?
Kate Aanenson: Correct. It has to be behind the principle structure so it could be aligned with that front
yard setback if that ends up at 30 or 35, 40. It could be aligned with that but it couldn’t be in front of it.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay, thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Anyone else who would like to speak at the public hearing. Please.
Krisan Osterby: Good evening. My name is Krisan Osterby. I live at 6271 Hummingbird Road. I live in
the property that is just south of the Liedtke’s, so one house away from the development between the
Liedtke’s and Jason who you already heard speak. I agree with everything that’s been stated today. I
wanted to confirm and actually clarify a few points. First of all for your consideration, when we were
presenting information to the City of Shorewood the Planning Commission did not vote to approve the
PUD because of the concerns that we have been bringing to you so there was if you will a serious concern
and split decision within the City of Shorewood.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Krisan Osterby: Second of all I wanted to point out within that 16 foot pavement because if you think
about the official or what is a legal width for a car or truck which is 8 foot 6, that means almost always
any vehicle traffic is in the middle which causes additional wear and tear. Cars do not drive on their side,
especially in the winter time to pass with snow removal. It does actually require either driving into a
neighbor’s driveway to let somebody pass or to drive off the road. Neighbors frequently place boulders in
their yard or place stakes to help control that damage to their yard and so that’s why Alex was requesting
the repair to damage that would be fully expected in this kind of situation so it is very likely, almost
unavoidable because of that. That is also part of the reason we are so concerned about the additional
traffic in the neighborhood. I don’t think what has been clearly stated is Hummingbird Road actually acts
as the cul-de-sac, the main point of access to the Shorewood property. You saw in the slide show that
Charles, the slope. The slope is actually more than 12% which is again supersedes or precedes civil
engineering standards and so even when the road is plowed in the winter, we’ve been having for example
it is not possible for cars to drive up Summit Road so it is again the brunt of Chanhassen that particularly
in winter weather, in any freezing conditions, even in rain conditions the entire neighborhood knows now
you choose and go to Hummingbird. We’ll even see this in the pattern of service vehicles now. With
garbage trucks in particular. The other issue that I want to point out why this is also I want your careful
consideration is an incident that my family suffered. I also want to clarify the preceding the bluff
ordinance. My house was rebuilt after a catastrophic loss of fire because it was inaccessible to fire
fighting equipment because of the conditions of the road. And also my neighbors house, which was
recently built in the late, or early 2000’s also, we both meet the bluff ordinance and so the neighborhood
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
as Charles said assumes large front lawns and in a sense no back yards. That’s kind of the culture to deal
with those considerations but again the issue that happened in the loss of my home to fire was that calls
were given to Victoria, Excelsior and Chanhassen. Only one of those crews could actually make it to my
yard because of the condition of the road. They could not come up Hummingbird. Excuse me they could
come up Summit and they could not get past the other emergency equipment because of the width of the
road and the conditions along the road itself so this is not a light matter why we bring these traffic and
safety concerns to your attention. Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Anyone else that would like to address the council under the public hearing?
Okay. Is the applicant here? Good evening.
Steve Bona: Good evening Mr. Mayor, members of the council. Excuse me. My name is Steve Bona
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with Homestead Partners. We’re located at 525 15 Avenue South in Hopkins. Just for familiarity sake.
We’re a residential developer in the southwest and western suburbs of the Twin Cities. We have
neighborhoods currently going in Minnetonka, Eden Prairie, Edina, Mound and St. Louis Park just to
name a few and then tonight I’m just here to give quick response to some of the comments that were
made and then to answer any questions that you may have.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Steve Bona: Excuse me. Hummingbird Heights has full staff approval, as you know. It’s a variance free
proposal. There were many more questions or complex factors on the Shorewood side of the
neighborhood. Not necessarily the case here with this subdivision. We actually going into it, knowing all
the issues and concerns that are out there with the neighbors and the residents nearby, we proposed the
conservation easement so we were already doing that in Shorewood. In that plan and we thought it’d be a
great idea to carry over into this plan as well so we proposed that to Bon Generous and kind of worked
through the details of it and he thought that would work well so that is kind of how that came about.
Homestead Partners is a developer, as I mentioned. JMS Custom Homes is planned to be the
homebuilder. A sister company of our’s. They build custom single family homes. That is what we
propose in this neighborhood. Very nice homes. We’ve shown some of them to conceptual house plans
to the City of Shorewood during that PUD process. As was mentioned also we’ve met with some of the
neighbors throughout this process and we do have an open invitation to any of the neighbors if they
would like to contact me. I’m happy to meet with them at any time and one of the things that came out of
our most recent meeting was that front setback and Pete and I, Pete Knaeble my engineer, we were just
discussing whether or not the 40 feet is viable and we’ve looked at that previously. We have the bluff
setback in the rear to deal with, which is actually very tight and then there is a number of significant trees
that would also need to be removed in order to push each of the houses back and one has a bigger issue
than the other. But we are considering doing that anyway. It’s just a matter of if we can make it fit and if
there’s anything of a usable back yard at all so we’re going to look at that. That was a good suggestion
that came out of our meeting and it came up because the next lot in on the Shorewood side to the north
actually does have a 40 foot front setback so we would like it to match. Have the houses be somewhat
even as well and that’s another reason to look at it. The Shorewood plan, we originally came in with 6
lots and after many discussions with the City we reduced it to 5. City Council has approved our concept
and it was actually, the concept was actually for 4 lots. There’s already one buildable lot in that city so a
total of 5 and we had full staff approval for the project as well. So now we’re moving forward to
preliminary plat in the City of Shorewood. Plans have already been submitted and we are just waiting for
the Planning Commission meeting which is upcoming. The only questions that I have before any
questions that you may have of me, the fees that were calculated were based all on two single family lots
and I’m wondering, I tried to reach Bob today but I wasn’t able to get ahold of him but the park
dedication fees. We already have one existing lot and so one thing I’d just like clarified moving forward
is whether or not it’s two times or one times specifically for park dedication and then some of the
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
connection fees. It doesn’t have to be determined tonight but if we could look into that, that would be
appreciated.
Mayor Furlong: Well we should probably get it right if we’re being asked to approve it.
Kate Aanenson: The park director, Park and Rec’s Director said it’s two. I’m not sure the first one ever
paid so if you want to ask Mr. Hoffman, he can comment on that.
Roger Knutson: We’ll review that.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Steve Bona: Yeah, that would be great. And besides that if you have any questions for me I’m happy to
answer them.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Questions for the applicant. Mr. Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Mayor. My only, and by the way thank you for coming
forward today. Is it Bona, is that correct?
Steve Bona: Yes.
Councilman Laufenburger: Steve Bona. Steve, my only question is regarding the road and I see from the
staff report that the dollars attributed to that road is $10,000. Do you have similar letter of credit with
Shorewood for their portion of what is Hummingbird turns into Summit? Do you have similar letter of
credit with them?
Steve Bona: It hasn’t been determined yet because we don’t have a preliminary plat approval but that will
come with it but they have already discussed that it would be 125% just like the City of Chanhassen
calculates their’s.
Councilman Laufenburger: So similar calculation?
Steve Bona: Yes.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Alright. Thank you Mr. Bona.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Councilwoman Tjornhom.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Point of clarification. Can we go back to that last point you brought up about
your fees?
Steve Bona: Yes.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: The dedication fees and you need the clarification on that.
Steve Bona: Yes.
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Can we still approve that even without clarification or do you need that before
you would?
Mayor Furlong: I guess what I would ask of our City Attorney, if we go forward. If the council wants to
move forward with approval, if we could do it with a condition that staff clarify and adjust if necessary
the fees.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Okay. I just want to make sure I was understanding what was going on.
Mayor Furlong: Is that?
Roger Knutson: That’s fine and the issue in the park dedication is if they already paid a park dedication
for one lot or have they not. We need to confirm that. If they have not then they pay for two.
Mayor Furlong: So that’s a fact that needs to be determined and then depending on the outcome of that.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Okay.
Mayor Furlong: And would that be in the development contract or the?
Roger Knutson: Yes.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright. Mr. Bona, there’s been a lot of questions raised about traffic on the road.
Construction traffic. Delivery vehicles. Times of day and just where the vehicles are going to park.
What’s your expectation? What have you done in other areas? Are you going to be able to keep the road
clear of vehicles that are on site?
Steve Bona: Yes. The road will be clear. It will be challenging. It is narrow. We understand that.
We’re going to have to work with the building department, as was mentioned previously. Our building
company, JMS Custom Homes, I would recommend you know sits down with the building inspector up
front and formulates a plan for parking and for deliveries and whatever else is needed there. I think that’s
probably, I would look at this a little bit differently than most of the neighborhoods that we’re developing
in right now given a 16 foot wide road. And our building side is aware of that and we have discussed that
as well.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Furlong: Councilwoman Tjornhom.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: So what are the specifications for Shorewood when it comes to traffic and
construction workers parking and deliveries being made? Are they consistent with Chanhassen standards
or are they not?
Steve Bona: I don’t know what the standards are necessarily in Chanhassen right now but what their’s are
and what the other cities are in this area that we work in, I don’t think that they necessarily have a, they
have the hours. The working hours but I don’t necessarily think that they have anything set for individual
house construction but in this case since it’s, and in Shorewood we haven’t gotten to that point yet but
I’m sure that the developer agreement will spell it out and there I would also recommend the same thing.
That we sit down prior to the first development equipment coming in and say, formulate the plan for
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
where the parking will be. There is a lot of property on, you know on site. There’s a lot of right-of-way.
We have areas to get off of the street to park and we’re just going to have to use that as best we can.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Okay.
Mayor Furlong: But the road will be, to every extent possible passable.
Steve Bona: It has to be passable, we understand that.
Mayor Furlong: Yep. Okay. Alright. Other than the question that you raised on the park development
fees, did you have any other questions or concerns about the development contract or the conditions of
approval?
Steve Bona: I do not.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Mr. Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Just one more question Mr. Bona from me. Assume you receive the
approvals that are necessary, when do you expect that you would begin construction? Or that JMS would
begin construction. Have you put a time table together for this?
Steve Bona: We would like to start the first house as soon as possible. We would like to.
Councilman Laufenburger: I can appreciate that.
Steve Bona: I think we would like to begin, and it’s reasonable that we could start by the first of March.
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March 15.
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Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. And does, let’s say March 15. Mr. Oehme, does our weight
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restriction on our city roads allow something like that in the March 15 timeframe?
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Paul Oehme: No March 15, road restrictions probably, typically aren’t on at that time. Starting right
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around maybe April 1 I think they would go on and then third week in April maybe they would come off
so.
Councilman Laufenburger: So the restrictions really are, they’re not in place in the winter because the
road’s frozen and it can handle that.
Paul Oehme: Correct.
Councilman Laufenburger: It’s during the melting time when the restrictions really come into play.
Paul Oehme: Yeah, the thawing period of the frost so.
Councilman Laufenburger: And you’re accustomed to that Mr. Bona?
Steve Bona: Yes.
Councilman Laufenburger: In the past, okay. Alright. That answers my question, thank you.
Councilwoman Ernst: Mr. Mayor?
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
Mayor Furlong: Yes Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: I’m sorry, I don’t remember your name.
Krisan Osterby: My name?
Councilwoman Ernst: Yes.
Krisan Osterby: Krisan Osterby.
Councilwoman Ernst: I really want to make sure that we’ve addressed your concern in terms of having
that road accessible to get to your house, and I’m not sure that I’ve heard whether it was the design of the
road. Whether it was traffic in the road and why was, why were the emergency vehicles not able to get to
your home?
Krisan Osterby: They couldn’t pass each other.
Councilwoman Ernst: Because of the traffic in the road.
Krisan Osterby: Well it was the width of the road and the width of the vehicles. There was trees on
either side and then there were a couple of emergency vehicles along with fire vehicles along with
sightseers essentially for lack of a better word.
Councilwoman Ernst: And do we feel that we’ve addressed that particular situation with the traffic and
the design of the road? I’m not hearing it and maybe it’s there. I’m just not hearing it.
Mayor Furlong: We’re not looking at any changes to the road.
Krisan Osterby: And part of the issue which again you don’t see in the plan…is it’s the slope of Summit
that makes Hummingbird essentially act as a cul-de-sac or conduit for this land… It’s the flat part of the
property and if there’s any kind of inclement weather, if it’s freezing or if it’s a large vehicle they cannot
come up Summit.
Councilwoman Ernst: And I’m not saying that we’re changing the design of the road. I’m just saying
with the design of the road the way it is today, have we addressed the traffic that accommodates that?
Steve Bona: From our point of view I think that we need to sit down with the building inspector prior to
that first house being built because in this case for these two lots, there’s not any development that needs
to occur here besides a service in the road so the house will start. That’s why the house will start fairly
quickly and sit down with the building I inspector and discuss how it works so there is a plan in place.
Mayor Furlong: Mr. Oehme.
Councilwoman Ernst: I just want to make sure, I’m sorry.
Mayor Furlong: Nope, that’s fine.
Councilwoman Ernst: I just want to make sure we’ve addressed that situation because.
Steve Bona: We do too.
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
Councilwoman Ernst: It’s pretty critical.
Jason Mills: Do you mind could I?
Mayor Furlong: Well Mr. Bona’s here right now so I just want to make sure that he has his opportunity.
Any other questions for the applicant? Mr. McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: Yeah, I hadn’t heard an answer to one question. As far as work restriction
hours, what does Shorewood say? Are they compatible with what we have or do we have a difference of
timing?
Steve Bona: I think they’re very similar. I don’t know if they allow work on Sundays but again that is,
we’re still in the preliminary plat process so there hasn’t been anything other than what is in the ordinance
approved.
Councilman McDonald: Okay, thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, anything else? Mr. Bona, thank you. Appreciate your time and comments.
Steve Bona: You’re welcome.
Mayor Furlong: Anyone else for the public hearing? Is it a follow up to what he just presented?
Jason Mills: Somewhat.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Jason Mills: And it has to do exactly with what we were just talking about, about the road and the traffic.
Mayor Furlong: Yep.
Jason Mills: Jason Mills, 6281 Hummingbird.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you.
Jason Mills: My personal concern deeply concern that concerns me about this whole thing and this PUD
and the development going in is, at one point I counted the homes on this, in this area down
Hummingbird Road and Summit. Going down the hill. I think it was 19 homes that we have there in our
neighborhood and so this development is going to be 6 to 7. It’s going to be 6 basically with possibly 7
down the road. My concern is that our road is 16 feet wide.
Audience: 15 6.
Jason Mills: Okay.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, let’s try to keep it moving. Keep going.
Jason Mills: Okay, so bear with me. It’s very narrow road. It’s a very quaint neighborhood. Myself,
including the rest of the people that live there love the place but I have a personal concern that as far as
traffic goes, that road is about at the threshold right now of what it can handle and I might be wrong, and I
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
might be right. I don’t know but I think it takes deeper concern by whomever is in charge of all this to
take a look. We put in 7 more homes. Let’s say that your average 35 year old, 40 year old couple with 2
kids. You know they each got 2 cars. That’s another 14 vehicles or whatever etc. That might over
burden our road as far as convenience, safety, fire trucks, the UPS guy, garbage trucks, etc. Okay? I’m
not in charge at all but I just want to plea my case to you people to please look into it. I’ve reached out to
Steve at Homestead. We’ve had a meeting already and we’re going to do that again to try to work
together to see you know, I understand that he is empathetic to our cause but I understand too is that we
know that people are going to develop. This property was there. You know development is there. It’s
going to come. Profit. We all understand that okay.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright. I’m trying to understand then if we knew that development was going to
come, but you’re also saying the road can’t handle it.
Jason Mills: Right I know, that’s the problem. It’s a conundrum. I mean it, yeah.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you.
Jason Mills: Yeah. Yeah. Help us figure it out.
Mayor Furlong: Alright.
Jason Mills: Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Thanks. Ma’am.
Marilyn Zupnik: Marilyn Zupnik, 6200 Hummingbird Road. I was going to mention that we measured
the road right in front of us which is across the street from the Chanhassen portion and it was 15 feet. I
just, that’s what we got our measurement directly in front of the area in question.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Marilyn Zupnik: And just, you just mentioned we knew that development was coming. For all these
years we knew the property would be sold. We had no idea to, that a proposal would come along that was
any different than what was built in the last, well almost 24 years that we’ve been there. There have been
5 or 6 houses built, mostly across the street since we moved in and each one was built by an individual
owner with a lot of space around them and each one was a beautiful addition because of the space and the
different character of each house so that’s what we assumed would happen with this beautiful piece of
land and we still, I still hope it will happen so that’s what we were thinking.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. That’s helpful, thank you. Anyone else that would like to address the council on
this?
Charles Liedtke: Just one more point. Charles Liedtke again, 6231 Hummingbird Road. The $10,000 is
a nice gesture. It’s grossly inadequate. We spent $1,000 to sealcoat our driveway. We don’t know what
it will be. That’s a guesstimate. We think it’s a good start but we heard from staff it might cover the
majority. That means we still might be on the hook for $9,000 of an estimate so I just encourage you to,
well going back doing more in-depth traffic analysis but also we would ask for more on the letter of credit
just to protect us. We are citizens in the community. Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Mr. Oehme, you know we need to, twice is probably too many. I’ve
tried to be lenient so, thank you for understanding. Mr. Oehme with regard to the concerns raised about
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
the financial obligation for the letters of credit and such like that, how did you come up with that amount
and what was the basis for it?
Paul Oehme: Again that’s our typical letter of credit for these type of projects where they’re digging into
the roadway for service connections and for deliveries and degradation to the road. You know that’s our
standard that we’ve always put on other properties such in the Carver Beach area and we’ve seem that
we’ve at least always covered ourselves so you know if the, so.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright, thank you.
Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Furlong: Mr. Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Thank you. Paul, if for some reason $10,000 doesn’t cover the cost of
returning that road to it’s original state, what’s your out? What’s your outcome?
Paul Oehme: We can always, we just talk to the City Attorney and see if there is any other obligations
that we can ask the developer to put towards a project like that.
Mayor Furlong: Mr. Knutson.
Roger Knutson: Mayor, members of the council. If the letter of credit is not adequate we can go after the
developer who signed the development contract to fulfill all the obligations under the development
contract.
Councilman Laufenburger: Thank you. That’s the language I was looking for. Thank you Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. And then another issue Mr. Knutson that’s come up, and that is the use of
Hummingbird Lane for access to property in Shorewood has come up a few times. Help all of us
understand what limitations, restrictions can be put in place. Are typically put in place with regard to
access. Using a public road from one city to another.
Roger Knutson: My experience it’s pretty typical. I mean that’s what roads are for.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. So there really isn’t a limitation that can be placed upon the use of a public road?
In a city for, to access for property in another city.
Roger Knutson: No.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Anyone else for the public hearing? If not, is there a motion to close
the public hearing?
Councilman McDonald: So moved.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Is there a second?
Councilwoman Ernst: Second.
Mayor Furlong: Any discussion on the motion?
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
Councilman McDonald moved, Councilwoman Ernst seconded to close the public hearing. All
voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0. The public hearing was
closed.
Mayor Furlong: Let’s bring it back to council then for comments, discussion and a motion.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: I’ll start Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Councilwoman Tjornhom, thank you.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: As I’ve been listening to this whole discussion tonight, this is my third term
as a City Council member and I think this is probably the first discussion I’ve had or we’ve had with a
neighborhood that’s been so professional and so I really want to thank you for that. Thank you for
coming out tonight especially I think it’s probably the coldest night we’ve had in 35 years and so
obviously this is important to you and it’s important to us that you know we get this right so you continue
to have that quality of life that you so love in the town that we love, Chanhassen. So I also want to
sympathize with you because you’ve been battling two city halls, not just one so you guys have been
doing double duty on your mission to make sure that, like I said this project turns out right and I’m
impressed that you’re not saying don’t let this happen but you’re saying make sure it happens the right
way and I’m hoping that tonight you feel like we’ve made progress in that direction and that a lot of your
issues were discussed and hopefully in our council meeting minutes and also in our packet there will be
all those items that we’ve addressed, recognized and so I think we talked about the roads and hopefully
you will feel a little bit better about if there is any damage to the roads that you know there is a plan put in
place. You have the $10,000 and if that doesn’t seem to be adequate there are legal ways to go ahead and
make sure that is going to be satisfactory to you. I’m impressed that you love your road. Most people
come here and they don’t like their road. It’s not big enough and it’s you know not safe enough and so I
saw that big, beautiful tree there and I love that neighborhood. That Hummingbird neighborhood is,
Melody Hill, it’s a beautiful place and so I think some of the other addresses were traffic and I understand
that too. If the bus isn’t coming to pick your kids up at the bus stop and you’ve got to drive and then
you’ve got to maneuver around semi’s or trucks coming in unloading wood. Concrete trucks. Just
construction traffic in general. Even just dirty roads. I can see where that would be a hindrance to you
and your quality of life and so I’m hoping also that that can be worked out with the developer so you both
can kind of live with each other during that brief time when these homes are being built. I think another
question was about drainage and hopefully that was answered too and hopefully you know you can work
with our city engineer and make sure, and the developer and make sure that you know once again we all
can live in harmony with our new neighbors so like I said, I really want to thank everybody. I want to
thank the neighbors. Staff. Council and the developer for really working together tonight in trying to
make this something that’s viable and like I said, that we can all feel good about and hopefully you’re
going to like your new neighbors so thank you very much and I’m in favor of this project.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Other discussion. Comments. Motions. Mr. McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: I’ll go. Yeah I’ve been pretty quiet but I’ve been listening to all this and I guess
what it comes down to is, yeah we can only vote based upon certain criteria and I think we’ve gone
through all of this tonight. It looks as though all the requirements are going to be met. Based upon that,
not being able to find anything where there’s a violation of any rules of ordinance, our hands are tied. We
have to vote yes. I can sympathize with everything that’s going on. Change is very difficult and this is
definitely going to be change to your area. Again as Councilwoman Tjornhom said, I hope that once the
new neighbors get in everybody can get along they will appreciate the uniqueness of this area so I mean I
have not heard anything tonight that would say I could vote against this so I would vote for it also.
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any other comments? Discussion. Motions. Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: Well I’ll just kind of repeat what’s been said already but you know I think that
we’ve addressed, I hope that you feel that we’ve addressed all your concerns tonight. Traffic and safety
are some of the big issues out there from what I’m hearing from all of you and the developer has
committed to working…that we’ve taken care of that issue. We’ve also addressed the runoff. The
setbacks and I really think that you know the developer working with staff and all of you that will be able
to come up with a win/win situation. But I too want to thank all you for coming tonight and some of you
a second time up at the podium. Really appreciate your comments. That’s what it’s all about is being
able to voice your opinions. You are the government so thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any other comments?
Councilwoman Ernst: And I’m sorry, I support the project.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Mr. Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Mayor. Accolades to those people who have done great
research and great preparation and special recognition to those people that find it difficult to speak in
public because I know when you stand in front of that microphone a big lump gets in your throat and I
thought all of you handled that very, very well. Our responsibility, as Mr. Knutson so well reminded us is
to address the legal requirements of the City of Chanhassen. It’s one of the reasons, quoting Mr. Liedtke,
we love Chanhassen. We don’t have to love Shorewood or Victoria or Eden Prairie or Chaska. All we
have to make a decision about is Chanhassen. That over which we can, we have some influence so we do
our best to do that so our responsibility, as Mr., as Councilman McDonald also stated is we have to follow
the guidelines that are in front of us. Also Mr. Knutson, you can correct me if I’m wrong but we’re
actually making two decisions tonight. The first is a metes and bounds decision on the subdivision and
then the second decision we’re making is regarding the development contract, is that correct?
Roger Knutson: They’re really tied together, yes. You’re asked to approve both.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. So clearly there is little latitude for us to either approve or deny on the
metes and bounds subdivision because if it meets the ordinances we really are obligated to approve it, but
we can influence the development contract. More importantly the performance against the development
contract and I see in Mr. Bona a gentleman who’s very interested, comes to us with a spirit and an attitude
of cooperation and I think that he made that very clear to us. I hope that he’s also made that clear to the
neighborhood as well, and if you challenge that in any way please, address it with Mr. Bona because he,
at least for the while, he’s going to be your neighbor. He’s going to be a citizen of your community.
Some in Chanhassen. Perhaps some in Shorewood as well. I’m pleased that there’s acknowledgement
that development will occur because I think that Chanhassen as a population right now, correct me Ms.
Hokkanen, 22,952. That will continue to grow and, close enough? Okay. That will continue to grow and
in that growth will be people who like Mr. Liedtke and his neighbors will love the neighborhood that they
live in and we should openly welcome those people as long as they can be good citizens like the citizens
of Murray Hill. Mr. Mayor I’m prepared to support both the metes and bounds subdivision and the
development. Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. I’ll try to keep my comments short in that I agree with the appreciation for
those who spoke at the public hearing, as well as who have worked with our city staff and city staff as
well. And Mr. Bona and his firm for working with our staff and continuing to show that desire and
saying it here that they want to keep doing that throughout the process and that will be very important to
making this successful as possible for everyone involved. With regard to the issue before us on the metes
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
and bounds definition, staff has represented that there are no variances being requested. That it does meet
our ordinances. I didn’t hear anything that said that it didn’t meet our ordinances so then the question is
how, you know the biggest issue came up was the road and while it’s not something we’re dealing with
tonight, I think for city staff to think about and the residents too is, right now looking at the staff report
Hummingbird Lane was last sealcoated in ’99, is that right? So again trying to do the math. 14 years.
That’s pretty good for it to still have a pavement rating in the mid to low 70’s. Knowing how we deal
with roads, and we’ve got a group of residents here that, with Kiowa Trail that’s looking at being
reconstructed, that quality of pavement could fall off rather quickly even if these homes weren’t built.
But the next time that this road comes up for reconstruction I think it should be seriously considered to be
widened to as close as possible to our current city standards for all the reasons that were mentioned here
tonight about the narrowness. Cars not being able to pass. You know pedestrian traffic. Bike traffic.
Conflicting, the traffic. Obviously you’re not going to get rid of the hill on Summit. That’s going to be
there and so, while that may affect the character of the neighborhood, from a safety standpoint I think it’s
something that the city and the residents should seriously consider. That doesn’t address the issue here
but based on comments made by staff there may be additional subdivisions in the future. I think part of
the challenge here is that but for Ms. Osterby’s home being reconstructed after the fire it looks like in
2008, there hasn’t been much construction up here for 20 plus years. That will be different. There will be
change and that’s why I think it’s incumbent upon and I appreciate Mr. Bona’s willingness to work with
staff to make sure it’s done in a way that is the least intrusive as possible. But with regard to the matters
before us tonight, I think it does meet the ordinance. It should be approved and the development contract
should be approved with the exception of the one issue. Request on the park and trail dedication fees.
Make sure that’s verified and adjusted and give staff the option. The ability to verify that and make that
adjustment. And with that if there are no other comments would somebody like to make a motion?
Councilwoman Ernst: I’ll make a motion.
Mayor Furlong: Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: I make a motion that City Council approve the two lot metes and bounds
subdivision of Hummingbird Heights subject to the conditions of the staff report and adopts the Findings
of Fact and Decision and the development contract.
Mayor Furlong: And then what sort of language Mr. Knutson should we have with regard to the park and
trail dedication fees?
Roger Knutson: Subject to confirming that park dedication’s required on both lots.
Councilwoman Ernst: Subject.
Mayor Furlong: What he said?
Councilwoman Ernst: Yeah what he said.
Mayor Furlong: Yeah, okay. Thank you. Is there a second?
Councilman Laufenburger: Second.
Mayor Furlong: Motion’s been made and seconded. Any further discussion on the motion? Hearing
none we’ll proceed with the vote.
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
Councilwoman Ernst moved, Councilman Laufenburger seconded that the Chanhassen City
Council approves the two-lot metes and bounds subdivision of Hummingbird Heights subject to the
following conditions and adopts the Findings of Fact and Decision:
Building:
1. Appropriate permit(s) required for the demolition or moving of any existing structures.
2. A final grading plan and soils report must be submitted to the Inspections Division before
building permits can be issued.
3. Retaining walls over four feet high require a permit and must be designed by a professional
engineer.
4. Each lot must be provided with separate sewer and water services.
Engineering:
1.A $10,000 security must be provided to ensure that the street is restored following the
installation of sewer and water services to Lot 2. The security can be released when the City
determines that the patch is in good condition after one freeze-thaw cycle.
2.Sewer and water hookup charges are due for both parcels, a portion of which shall be
collected with the subdivision:
Water: 2 units x $1,886/unit = $3,772
Sewer: 2 units x $664/unit = $1,328
The remainder of the water and sewer hookup fees shall be paid with the building permit at
the rate in effect at that time.
3.The City Attorney shall draft and the developer shall execute a “Grant of Permanent
Easement for Public Drainage and Utility Purposes” document. This document shall be
recorded with the metes and bounds subdivision.
4.The City Attorney shall draft and the developer shall execute a “Preservation Easement”
document. This easement shall restrict the removal of vegetation to allow for only the
removal of invasive vegetation or noxious weeds and only after the removal has been
reviewed and approved by the City. The document shall also forbid any topographic
alterations or placement of fill materials except as is necessary to correct demonstrable
erosive conditions provided a plan is developed by a licensed civil or soils engineer or a
licensed geologist or soil scientist. In the event this easement is vacated, Storm Water
Management Fees, as listed in Section 4-30 (c) 3 of the City Code, shall be due for the
vacated area at that time. This document shall be recorded with the metes and bounds
subdivision.
5.Storm Water Utility connection fees totaling $5,336.10 shall be collected with the
subdivision.
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
6.A plan showing the design of the rain garden features along with details and specifications
shall be provided for review and approval.
7.The proposed location of the rain gardens shall be moved such that it treats water from the
driveway and/or road area and so that there is not a concentrated flow condition to the bluff
area.
8.The applicant must provide a letter from Minnehaha Creek Watershed District stating that the
development is in compliance with their stormwater management and erosion control rules.
9.An operations and maintenance manual describing the schedule for anticipated inspections
and maintenance of the rain garden areas and indicating who is responsible for the long-term
care and maintenance of the features unless included with MCWD submittal and approval.
10.A $5,000 security must be provided to ensure that the rain garden features are constructed on
lots 1 and 2. The security can be released when the City confirms that they have been
constructed per design and have adequately performed through one full growing season.
11.A Surface Water Pollution Prevention Plan (SWPPP) meeting the requirements of the
NPDES construction permit shall be provided for review and comment.
12.The applicant shall provide proof that the NPDES permit has been applied for and received
from the MPCA. This can be in the form of the permit number.
13.All erosion prevention and sediment control shall be installed prior to any earth-disturbing
activities. The city shall be contacted to inspect that this condition has been met.
14.All applicable details shall be included in the plan set and shall be specific to the proposed
improvements.
15.The detail for the bioretention facility shall be modified such that it does not include in situ
soils materials.
16.The underdrain shall be fitted with a mechanism to restrict flow to the outlet. A geotechnical
report or percolation testing report indicating that the area is not conducive to infiltration as
described in the MN Online Stormwater Manual can be submitted in lieu of this.
17.Silt fence or other perimeter controls shall be installed to protect the rain garden areas from
all construction-related activities and shall be placed as far from the top of bluff as is
reasonable to allow adequate room for construction equipment yet protecting the bluff.
18.The plans should call out for all infiltration/filtration areas that they are to be protected from
all construction related activities throughout the duration of the project.
Park and Recreation:
1.The developer shall pay park dedication fees at the rate in force upon final plat approval for
the two lots prior to recording the property deeds.
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
Planning:
1.Deeds for the two parcels shall be submitted to the city for review and approval and then
recorded at Carver County.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
Councilwoman Ernst moved, Councilman Laufenburger seconded that the Chanhassen City
Council approve the development contract for Hummingbird Heights conditioned upon the
applicant shall supply the City with a cash escrow or letter of credit for $17,655.00 and pay a cash
fee of $22,531.10, and subject to staff confirming that park dedication is required on both lots. All
voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
Mayor Furlong: Let’s take, and I hate to do this for everybody that just sat through that and is interested
in the next item but at 5 to 9:00 here, let’s take a short break. We’ll reconvene. We’ll recess now and
reconvene at 9:00 and I appreciate everybody’s understanding.
(The City Council took a short recess at this point in the meeting.)
Mayor Furlong: I’d like to reconvene the Chanhassen City Council. Continue on with our agenda items.
2014 STREET RECONSTRUCTION PROJECT: PUBLIC HEARING FOR KIOWA TRAIL.
Mayor Furlong: Let’s start with a staff report please then we will have a public hearing as well so Mr.
Oehme, good evening.
Paul Oehme: Good evening. Thank you Mayor, City Council members. So tonight I’d like to review the
Kiowa Trail proposed improvements for 2014. So the agenda for tonight, I’d like to quickly just talk
about the project background. The project scope and talk about the Springfield connection associated
with this project proposed tonight. I have with me tonight is Tom Sohrweide. He’s with SEH engineers.
They are the ones that helped the City draft the traffic study for this project. I’ll also review the cost and
the financing for the project. Schedules for the project and open it up for public hearing would be the
request. So with that, the project is actually split out into two areas in town. The north side of, one of the
areas is the Minnewashta Shores neighborhood. That is proposed to be held for a public hearing on
th
February 10 but tonight we’d like to focus on the Kiowa Trail improvements. In total there’s a little
over one miles worth of streets that the City is proposing to reconstruct. Kiowa Trail is a narrow rural
section roadway. It varies in width between 23 and 25 feet. From our records the last time major
improvements were completed was in 1978. It was sealcoated several times and a pavement condition
index that we rate our streets with is currently at 13 which is very low considering 100 is a brand new
street. So it is within our reconstruction areas. Or recommended for reconstruction. So with that we are
recommending a full depth reconstruction of the street to it’s current geometry and width. We did take
soil borings and there is a lack of sub-grade material to support a new roadway section so we want to dig
that clay material out and replace it with a heavier duty pavement section. 18 inches of sand. 10 inches
of Class V material which is a gravel and 3 1/2 inches of bituminous. We also in our typical section of
roadway we would install draintile to help with the drainage of the sub-grade and this also allows
property owners to connect into their, their sump pumps into the draintile so it doesn’t discharge onto the
road and cause ice damage or other degradation to the road as well. The street width, we are proposing to
maintain it to it’s current width. This area has some topographic challenges and some steep driveways.
In order to widen out the road or change the grade of the road it would impact negatively some of the
driveways so we don’t want to decrease or make some of these driveways steeper or worst condition than
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
they currently are. Surmountable curb is proposed for this area which is a drivable over. The
surmountable curb will help with the drainage in the area. Will help with pavement longevity and also
with traffic in the area. Currently Kiowa Trail does not have water service. All the houses along Kiowa
Trail are on well so staff is proposing to install watermain along the section of roadway in conjunction
with the reconstruction project. We also have stormwater improvements that will go through as well and
then some miscellaneous sanitary repairs in conjunction with the project. So watermain, like I had talked
about, all the properties in this area are on well. With the 101 project we did extend watermain down to
the south side of Kiowa along 101 so the plan is, and Springfield does have water at that location so we’re
planning to extend water throughout this project area and connect down to 101. We are looking at
needing a pressure reducing valve to support and adjust the pressure of the water south of here and onto
101. And the services will be extended to the right-of-way line or the property line. The property owners
would have to hire a contractor and extend the water service to their property on private property. That is
not part of the project. Like with any development, you know watermain would be considered a cost
associated with the project so on other projects that the City has worked on, 100% of the watermain
improvements and services would be proposed to be assessed back to the benefitting property owners.
And typically one of the questions that has been raised by some of the property owners, can we keep our
own well and the City in the past has allowed property owners to keep their well in service if they still
want to provide water to the residence until such time as the well fails or there is contaminants or
something else goes wrong with the well. Sanitary sewer, we did televise the sewer in this area. It
appears to be in good condition. There are some mineral deposits and some grouting, some I and I
improvements that we’d like to address with this project. Nothing significant but we like to always tie
these little projects into the larger street reconstruction projects as well. Storm sewer improvements are
proposed as well. About the third half of the Kiowa Trail will propose to be treated in the pond that’s
recently constructed with the 101 project. The north half, the north two-thirds of the project would drain
into new stormwater treatment facility that would be part of this project. Iron filings would be proposed
in the existing Bandimere Park pond. That’s to help reduce the amount of phosphorous loading
discharging from ponds such as this and then also a pervious pavement parking area for infiltration
purposes would also be proposed at the current location at the parking lot. So with all the utility
improvements, the water, the sanitary sewer and the stormwater, all the funding and the costs associated
with these improvements would come out of the appropriate enterprise funds. None of these
improvements would be proposed to be assessed back to the benefitting property owners. Just the street.
So on all these projects if there’s overhead utilities staff contacts the private utilities for costs associated
with what it would take to bury these utilities. That’s one of the questions we always get from these type
of projects. We did talk to all the appropriate utility companies and it is quite significant to bury the
utilities in this area with the utility companies that we talked to so at this time we’re not proposing to bury
the utilities in this area. We just haven’t had enough feedback and residential support for that
improvement. Now I’d like to just briefly or talk about the proposed permanent connection to
Springfield. This has been in our comp plan, not just in the 2030 comp plan but in the 2020 comp plan
before this back in 19 I think 98 when the first comp plan was drafted and approved. So basically, and it
also was, the connection was identified in the development contract when Springfield neighborhood was
first approved by the City Council. In all, in both of these scenarios or these documents you know the
connection was based upon 212 being improved and being constructed prior to that connection going
through. Following what the comp plan says we’re, at this time it’s appropriate for staff to bring this item
before the City Council to see if it’s still appropriate to make this connection or not. So staff did hire a
traffic consultant to look at this connection and see if on it’s merits if the connection meets our standards
and if it’s, what the connection. How, if there’s any significant issues with making this connection at this
time so at this time I’d like to have Tom Sohrweide give an update on the traffic study and what the
findings of that traffic study were.
Mayor Furlong: Good evening.
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
Tom Sohrweide: Good evening Mayor and members of the council. My name’s Tom Sohrweide with
SEH. We have offices both in Minnetonka and Vadnais Heights and I’m a traffic engineer by profession
and as Paul said we’ve looked at determining an estimation for some of the impacts that would be
associated with making the connection between Kiowa and Springfield. One of the issues in the area is
obviously traffic speed. City staff conducted, there was a period of time this summer when 101 was
under construction and Kiowa was closed on the south end that the connection was open and essentially
all the Kiowa traffic had to proceed north out of the area through the Springfield neighborhood and it was
during that time period the city staff conducted traffic speed and volume counts and essentially their
findings were from a traffic volume perspective, it was what you would expect the magnitude from the
number of households being served and from the speed perspective which is shown on the drawing with a
little yellow line crossing the street in the relative vicinity of the neighborhood pool, the speeds in that
th
area were 85 percentile speed which is a speed generally recognized and looked at as being as an
indicator of what the speed limit should be. Was in the, a little bit over 28 miles per hour but under the 30
miles per hour speed limit. Another issue is the amount of traffic on the street. On each street. It’s
estimated now that that Springfield and the neighborhood of that count has approximately 300 vehicles
per day. Kiowa more towards it’s south end has approximately 200 vehicles per day. We’ve estimated
that if the connection were open, both of these streets in those respective areas would have approximately
500 vehicles per day made up of essentially three components. There’s each neighborhood if you will.
The Kiowa neighborhood, the Springfield neighborhood and then there’s a potential which we’ll talk
about a little more of cut through traffic from the area to the north. The neighborhoods to the north off of
Lyman that could have reason to cut through the area. So each of those 3 components in a different
magnitude make up what we’re estimating to be 500 vehicles per day essentially on that street in the
connection area. Keeping in mind that by traffic engineering definition and definition of the Metropolitan
Council, a residential street is typically defined as having under 1,000 vehicles per day. Generally of
concern in a neighborhood, and legitimately so is cut through traffic. Those are drivers that typically
have a different, their origin destination is different. They aren’t coming to or going from the
neighborhood. They’re going through the neighborhood to get somewhere else. There’s again two parts
here. There is the two neighborhoods. Kiowa and Springfield so you know one to the other is I guess
depending on your perspective. Is that a cut through or is that now a new neighborhood? But genuinely
regardless of how you look at that, you know there is genuinely concern or there will be potential for cut
through from the neighborhoods to the north, and that would be cut through. Why does traffic cut
through? I’m sure we’ve all done it. We know why. We want to do it because it takes less time if you
cut through somewhere. We had some travel time runs and they’re shown here. Relatively the same if
you go around on Lyman and 101 to get from the, and we used the Springfield/Lyman intersection on the
north and the Kiowa/101 intersection on the south. We were somewhat restricted on the ability to do the
runs, particularly on Kiowa. You generally do a timing, a travel time run, center of intersection to center
of intersection so you minimize the impact of intersection control. When the Kiowa was done there was
just one run done in each direction. The 101 intersection was not open so there was some estimation as to
time and seconds that it would take to accomplish that. You’re also looking at, you know without being
relatively the same, there’s potential in the future. MnDOT has indicated that they plan to at some point
to connect, interconnect the traffic signal which exists at 101 and Lyman to the signals to the north. In so
doing you generally add more delay to your side streets. So the southbound or the west to southbound,
left turn on Lyman which would be you know the expected route for the neighborhood to the north would
incur more delay than it has now. Again variable depending obviously on when the vehicle gets to the
light and waits for the turn. Northbound shouldn’t be impacted at all by a change in cycle length. You
compare the collector arterial routes of Lyman and 101 with better traffic lane provision and higher speed
to the local connection of Springfield and Kiowa. Narrower roadways. Parked cars in some situations
and curves in the road which by themselves control some speed. Also entering an intersection control.
Easier and less mind numbing to take a left turn at a traffic signal than it is at a stop sign so those are all
things that go into people’s minds about if they’re going to cut through or not. I think in this case the,
there is some indication about how many people may cut through and that we found from a traffic count,
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
both a.m. and p.m. peak hour at the intersection of Lyman and 101 and the people, the movements at that
intersection that would have potential to cut through this area would be the westbound left turns and the
northbound right turns. We found looking at the a.m. peak hour and the p.m. peak hour that if all those
turning movements, there was in the a.m. peak hour there were 6 westbound left turns and then the p.m.
peak hour, so we looked at sort of leaving the neighborhood and then coming back in the p.m. peak hour,
there were 10 northbound right turns. If we translate that to an average daily traffic it falls in the
neighborhood of 100 to 150 cars a day on a daily basis and that again would be assuming that all, and that
cut through potential is essentially the Springfield neighborhood and the area to the north that would be
making up those 6 and 10 cars respectively. If the area is open.
Councilman Laufenburger: May I interrupt you just for a second please?
Tom Sohrweide: Yes.
Councilman Laufenburger: So did your count of 500 per day include the movement of those cars from
the intersection of Lyman and 101 into the neighborhood? You identified 6 people making a southbound
turn off Lyman in the morning and 10 people making an eastbound turn onto Lyman in the evening.
Tom Sohrweide: Correct.
Councilman Laufenburger: And you translated that to, I think you said 100 to 150?
Tom Sohrweide: That translates, yeah. Based on peak hour traffic to about 100 to 150 average daily.
Councilman Laufenburger: And is that number included in the 500 per day traffic that you identified in
the neighborhood earlier in your presentation?
Tom Sohrweide: In the 500 per day we’re roughly including 200 so.
Councilman Laufenburger: Oh, so you’ve more than allowed for it.
Tom Sohrweide: A little bit higher than that yes.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay, alright. Thank you. Sorry for the interruption.
Tom Sohrweide: That’s okay. Cut through traffic. So are there things you can do with it? If the
connection were opened, you know dealing with traffic and cut through and it used to be a prevalent term
traffic calming. Probably not so much, not so common anymore. We look at it now we’re building smart
streets and this type of thing. But physical things generally have the most impact. You know the
connection area would be a place for some sort of physical diversion in the middle of the street. I’ll guess
I’ll say a traffic circle. Not a round about which is a means of control but something for actually
physically requiring traffic to slow down by diverting it’s horizontal path. So things like that could be
considered as something that may go forward. Generally speaking there are pros and cons to making a
connection or I guess if you will eliminating a dead end street and those are you know that you are
connecting vehicles to neighborhoods as opposed to maybe just bikes and pedestrians. Emergency
vehicle response can also be a beneficiary of a connection. Alternative access. The Springfield
neighborhood does have two access points now. The Kiowa would gain an alternative access which is
good for again emergency situations and also you know as good as Paul wants to build the sewer if
something does happen and they got to close the road down because of it, you’ve got alternatives there.
Residential services as well as roadway maintenance. Snowplows and garbage trucks being able to go on
continuous routes rather than going into a dead end and turning around. The cons, you know some of the
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
things we just talked about. There is going to be increased traffic volume. There is going to be the
potential and there will be some cut through traffic and as related to both of those are the safety concerns
that exist in the neighborhood.
Paul Oehme: So staff did present the traffic study to Springfield neighborhood and we did talk about it
with the Kiowa folks as well. Two separate neighborhood meetings and appreciate everybody’s
comments and input on that as well. Like Mr. Sohrweide had indicated, you know the themes again were
the increased traffic. They’re concerned about that. The safety with additional traffic potentially going
through the neighborhoods and potentially speeding. You know people that aren’t familiar with the
neighborhood speeding through the neighborhood and especially right around the park area so those are I
think the themes that staff has heard from the neighborhood. So with that I just wanted to wrap up the
construction in the Kiowa Trail reconstruction project as well so we are open cutting and installing the
watermain. We are going to have a construction inspector working on the project full time so residents
can talk to that individual and it will access to phone numbers and emails on a daily basis as well for
storyline communications. There will have to be a mailbox system set up by the post office. Location
acceptable to the post office where we’re going to have to put all the mailboxes during the construction
period as well. And then garbage collection is always a concern too so the roadway would be available or
accessible during the day. On occasion there might be a pipe going across the street where we’ll have to
work around but garbage delivery should be accessible on a daily basis and we always ask the, require the
contractor to work with the property owners to make sure garbage collection is continued on a weekly
basis. Project cost, just briefly going through that again. There are two projects associated with this
year’s project. I just wanted to Kiowa Trail. The street project and the watermain costs. Total Kiowa
Trail project costs are listed here at a total of approximately $718,000. The budget for the project that
was approved by the City’s capital improvement project, if you add up all the utility costs is a little, is
about $2.6 million dollars so, and we are expecting to get some grant dollars from the Riley-Purgatory
Watershed District associated with the improvements that we are proposing in the Kiowa area.
Approximately $20,000 we think at this time. So with that if the project were to move forward the City
does have assessment practice of assessing 40% of the street project cost. Just the street project cost back
to the benefitting property owners so if there’s, there are 26 benefitting units in this area including two at
the park. The proposed assessment just for the street right now is a little over $6,800. If you add in the
watermain cost, preliminary estimates right now that total is right around $7,100 for a total assessment of
just over $13,900. Again these are preliminary estimates. Once we receive, if the project moves forward
and we receive bids from a contractor we always look at the cost associated with the project directly and
roll those numbers in and assess based upon the actual construction cost. The terms of the assessment if
the project were to move forward is, for a reconstruction project is a 10 year basis with interest based
upon prime rate plus 2% for our bonding costs and associated other ancillary costs for bonding at the time
of, of award of contract so historically it’s right around, the interest rate has been about 5 1/4% and again
that will potentially fluctuate with prime rate. Residents or property owners have the ability to acquire
different financing if they so choose or pay the assessments off in full as well. With that the schedule, if
the project were to move forward, tonight we have moved forward would be the next item would be the
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public hearing for Minnewashta Shores on February 10. We’re looking at potentially approving the
plans in the end of February. Bid opening in March. Assessment hearings in April and then starting
construction in May. Typically there’s some work that goes on before school is out but the project really
would gear up after school starts. Typically we try to have these projects paved before the end of the
summer and then substantial completion, restoration for the end of the year in October and then we also,
we always have the final wear course the final pavement put down the next year prior in 2015 so the total
project would potentially be completed in June of next year. So with that if there’s any questions for
staff, I’d like to try to answer them and I would request that a public hearing be opened at that time.
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
Mayor Furlong: Thank you and just for clarification Mr. Oehme before we get into staff, the purpose
tonight for this or the request would be to identify or for the council to take a position on whether or not
the improvements are necessary, cost effective and appropriate.
Paul Oehme: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright. And feasible within the proposed feasibility study.
Paul Oehme: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. And then from your schedule the timing would be same type of
discussion with regard to the other project that’s going to be done this summer, or proposed to be done
this summer, next meeting and then at that meeting we would order, forward the plans for both projects
together.
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Paul Oehme: Well yeah. We would order the project and then on February 24, the subsequent meeting
we would order the plans and specs once we’ve more or less completed the final documents and making
sure that we’re still in line with the scope and costs.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, very good. Thank you. Questions for staff. Councilwoman Tjornhom and then
McDonald.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Hey Paul. I want to go back to the beginning of your report and one thing that
I, if you could just maybe explain the rationale, when you go back to the agreement to have a barrier and
that barrier would be removed either if there was a petition by the neighborhood or the opening of 212.
What’s the rationale between either or of those situations?
Paul Oehme: I think if, you know again if the neighborhood would request that the barricades come
down and the connection would be made sooner than when 212 was put in I think there was an
opportunity there to put the barricades in and work with the City to have that connection made sooner
than when 212 was construction so that obviously didn’t happen. 212 is now built. You know based
upon the comp plan that’s why we’re bringing this connection before you tonight to see if the connection
is still, you know if it’s something that the City still wants to move forward with.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: And please explain this to me maybe a little bit better. The opening of 212
and the barriers, what’s the correlation or what would trigger that? What would make that come into
effect now?
Paul Oehme: Sure. I think with 212 not being constructed at that time there was significant traffic in the
area, especially on Pioneer Trail and Highway 5. Up on 101 that back then I think there was significant
concern about you know cut through traffic in this area trying to avoid some of the higher volume streets.
Pioneer Trail and Highway 5 and what not and trying to find an easier route to their current destination so
there was more I think local traffic on the collector roadways, the county roadways and such then you
typically see today so I think that was the concern that you know with all the additional traffic on some of
these other county roads and other collector roadways that you know if this connection would have been
made back then before 212 there would have been potentially even more cut through traffic than the
traffic engineer’s estimating right now.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Okay. And then I have request of the mayor. Normally at these public
hearings, and we, when the residents come to speak we ask them do they approve of the project or do they
think that this project needs to go forward and so if you could do that again.
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
Mayor Furlong: Sure.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: I’d appreciate that.
Mayor Furlong: I will do my best.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Mr. McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: Yes. The question I have, you talked about the volumes of traffic and
everything and you kind of put it in terms of so many per day. Have you done the study based upon an
hourly look at the volume as to where are the peaks at during what hours?
Tom Sohrweide: The traffic count we did at Lyman and 101 was based on a previously conducted traffic
count that was done for a longer period of time at Pioneer and 101 to determine what the peak hour was.
I believe I’ve got the information here. Somewhere. The a.m. peak hour was 7:15 to 8:15 and the p.m.
peak hour was 4:15 to 5:15.
Councilman McDonald: Okay. And then during the rest of the day, what does traffic look like at other
hours? You know say from noon. What I’m looking for is what does the volume look like? I’m trying to
sort out where is the out of the neighborhood traffic versus the in neighborhood traffic.
Tom Sohrweide: Well I guess I don’t have that readily available but we can based on daily counts break
down a daily count on an hourly basis. Roughly speaking your peak hours are going to be about 10% of
your daily. The morning peak hour generally in a residential setting has about 75% of it’s volume leaving
the area. 25% coming in for that peak hour. During the afternoon peak hour it’s about 60, about two-
thirds coming in and about one-third going out.
Councilman McDonald: Okay because the problem I’m wrestling with is the issue of cut through traffic
and you know I guess I’m trying to really look at how bad is it. Is it really a factor at all? And that’s
what I’m having trouble understanding is okay, what is the cut through traffic? You know we set all the
other issues aside, safety and you know fire and all like that. If it comes down to again the petitions don’t
want cut through traffic. What is that? I’m trying to I guess come up with why would I even want to go
through there? You know if I live in one of the neighborhoods to the north and really it seems to me it
would be the one directly north would be the most logical because the others are a little bit further to the
east and by the time you’re already going down, why would you want to do a left hand turn but that’s
what I’m trying to sort out is, what is the cut through traffic?
Tom Sohrweide: Well I’ve estimated that from the north it’d be approximately 100 a day.
Councilman McDonald: So 100 cars outside of the subdivision per day at probably the peak hours that
you’ve talked about around 7:00 to 8:00 and then the others would be between, coming back would be
4:00 to 5:00. So the peaks we’re looking at for the cut through are going to be those two hours basically.
Tom Sohrweide: Generally that’s the highest generation of, out of a residential area during your morning
peak going to work and your afternoon peak coming home from work, yes.
Councilman McDonald: Okay, and then within the development the normal traffic flow is the other, well
it’s not 400 cars because that was 500 per day. What’s the other traffic flow? Where’s that coming from?
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
Tom Sohrweide: Well there’s again two, three components to if the connection is put through. You’re
now going to have the ability for some of the Springfield neighborhood to go south to 101 through the
neighborhood so that would be new traffic on Kiowa. You’ve got the area to the north and then you
know I think my initial estimates were maybe 200 out of the Springfield neighborhood would go down to
101 on Kiowa. You’ve got 100 from the north and then you’ve got the 200 on Kiowa itself given the 500
there. The other direction we’ve estimated, you’ve still got the 100 from the north that’s cutting through
both streets. On both streets. You’ve got some re-routing of the Springfield area which then is going to
give you a higher volume in this pool area that we showed where the counts and speeds were taken
because now the neighborhood has access to the south so they’ll, there’s going to be a higher volume
there of their own neighborhood traffic. And then although there probably is some reason why, although
it maybe back tracks you a little bit I guess if you cut through and go to the west connection out of the
Springfield neighborhood. That that could be conducive to, for Kiowa traffic that now only goes south to
come north to get out of their area and go through the Springfield neighborhood also.
Councilman McDonald: Okay, and one of the things I’m looking at, I mean based upon your numbers
and everything it looks as though the majority of the cut through traffic is coming from Springfield and
that’s what I wrestle with because what Springfield is telling me is, we don’t want that so why would 200
additional cars be using that? I mean as a matter of principle why wouldn’t those cars go to the north?
That’s a question I’ll ask anybody that comes up is, if you feel that strongly about it then does that mean
you’re not going to be part of that count at which point we’re back down to maybe 100 cars.
Tom Sohrweide: Yeah, the other difficult portion of this is the magnitude we’re talking about, I mean
from a traffic perspective is a very small number. To a neighborhood that has 200 cars a day on the street
and you increase it to 500 that’s, you know we’re all creatures of habit and sensitive to change and so
that’s a different perspective you’re getting.
Councilman McDonald: But the only place that will see the full 500 is Kiowa because at that point that is
the funnel out to 101.
Tom Sohrweide: And I believe there will be about that same number you know cross the delineation line
between the neighborhoods in the Springfield area also.
Councilman McDonald: Well yeah because they’re coming up Kiowa at that point.
Tom Sohrweide: Right.
Councilman McDonald: Okay, thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: Thank you Mayor. So my question really is in two part. Paul, my first question is
for you. Is a round about potentially a solution here to slow traffic and deter traffic? Well first off I
should ask you, is that even a possibility to put a round about in there? Where the barricade is today.
Paul Oehme: Yeah councilmember, I think a traffic circle could help the situation. I don’t think it’s
going to discourage all the cut through traffic but I think the traffic circles would slow the vehicles down.
I think it would delay the cut through timing so people, whoever would want to take that connection
would be more encouraged to go the other collector roadway way. Lyman down to 101 so it is, I think
it’s a viable option to consider.
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
Councilwoman Ernst: And then my other question is based on, I’m sure you’ve done previous studies on
round about’s and maybe hopefully some comparable projects such as this. Has a study been done to
show that in fact it does deter traffic, number one. And number two, does it slow the speed? Does it
decrease the speed for those using the neighborhoods?
Tom Sohrweide: Generally past findings have been that using a physical means for traffic calming will
deter some traffic. You know it varies as to how much. I can’t give you a percentage. Will it, will, and I
guess I’ll differentiate a traffic circle from round about. Will that slow traffic speeds? Yes it will. You
know with any type of traffic calming you definitely want to look at placement. You’ve got things on this
roadway to build around if you will and that being curves which also are a speed control of sorts. And
possibly combining other medians to again help maintain vehicle path and speeds but yes. Physical
things do impact vehicle speeds.
Councilwoman Ernst: Okay, thank you.
Paul Oehme: There is a, councilmember there is traffic circles in one tool I guess in the toolbox. There’s
other items too that you know be considered for traffic calming too but I think that’s the one that Tom and
I had talked about the most was some sort of median there or traffic circle.
Councilwoman Ernst: Okay, thank you.
Councilman McDonald: Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Furlong: Mr. McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: If I could follow up with Councilwoman Ernst’s suggestion. As I understand
the real problem is up around the, where the community center is at. The pool and that area where that
curve is. If we put a traffic circle down between the neighborhoods, you’re quite a distance away from
where the traffic circle is. I guess I would just question the effectiveness of that circle and that place
between the neighborhoods to the south on any impact on speed. I can understand from a total timing
aspect it would probably deter people because now it will take longer than going up and around so is that
really the true effect? I mean I don’t want people to think that we put in a traffic circle and we’re going to
be able to address speed concerns because I just question the distance. You know people coming from
the north going south, they haven’t even hit the traffic circle yet and people coming from the south going
north are way past it by the time they get up there so is the true effect really a delay in time?
Mayor Furlong: While he’s coming up, Mr. Oehme could you, please. Could you pull up a map of the
area?
Paul Oehme: Sure.
Tom Sohrweide: My opinion relating to traffic calming is that one thing of and to itself generally isn’t
enough. Things need to be done in some planned sort of extended manner if you will. You know the
volumes we’re talking about in this area are conducive to traffic circles. Traffic circles are generally done
intersections. I would not, the problem with doing traffic circles in this neighborhood at intersections is
they’re T intersections and traffic circles have a problem at T intersections unless you reconstruct the
continuous curb line. What happens is people in both directions will hug the curb and avoid having any
vertical or horizontal discontinuity on the street. So in those cases some things with, there’s other
curvilinear things that may be considered but yes. I would agree with you that if there is a need to look at
traffic calming here, one traffic circle or horizontal diversion at the point of the two streets coming
together is likely no enough.
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
Councilman McDonald: Okay.
Mayor Furlong: And I think we’re just raising questions but I think that’s a good observation. Mr.
Laufenburger, any questions for staff?
Councilman Laufenburger: Yes, thank you Mr. Mayor. Most of these relate the project Mr. Oehme. I
think you said this but people on Kiowa Trail that have wells that supply their irrigation systems, can they
keep those wells connected to their irrigation systems?
Paul Oehme: Right now the wells that service the property are for domestic consumption as well so if
they want to keep their well and not hook up to the city’s system at this time, they’re more than willing to
do that.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay.
Paul Oehme: If they prefer to hook their water system to the city potable system for domestic use, there
still is the option to keep that well in service for irrigation or washing their car or what have you.
Councilman Laufenburger: Are you requiring that the homeowner connect from the watermain that
you’ve putting to the property line to their home, are you requiring that?
Paul Oehme: No we’re not.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. So what you are requiring or what you’re presenting to the council is
that the homeowner be assessed for the delivery of water to their property line. Is that correct?
Paul Oehme: That’s correct. So there’d be a stub to their properties. Just now if, now’s the time to put
that service in when the road is being reconstructed.
Councilman Laufenburger: Makes sense. Who pays for the storm sewer expenses? Any lining of any
sort. Does the homeowner pay for that at all?
Paul Oehme: No they do not.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. So that’s all born by the City in total?
Paul Oehme: In total and for example the storm sewer, we’re trying to get a grant from the Riley-
Purgatory Watershed District.
Councilman Laufenburger: $20,000.
Paul Oehme: $20,000 for that, correct.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. You spoke about the burial of utilities and nobody has come forward
and said yeah, yeah, yeah. Bury my utilities, is that correct?
Paul Oehme: That’s correct.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. But if in the future a magical low cost way to bury utilities presents
itself, do we have right-of-way to bury those utilities?
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
Paul Oehme: I believe we do. If the road was built you know utility companies can directional bore
alongside the road and within the right-of-way and not make too much of a mess.
Councilman Laufenburger: Is there any advantage to the utilities? The electric, cable, etc for them to
bury the utilities?
Paul Oehme: For an electrical perspective I think electrical providers most of the time like to have their
systems overhead. They’re easily accessible. If they have for undergrounding utilities, if there’s a short
in the line it’s more difficult to find, especially in frozen conditions like now.
Councilman Laufenburger: Find and repair it, okay. Alright. Let’s see. I don’t think you spoke to this
but you said that your plan is to deliver water to Kiowa Trail from a watermain you put in place on 101, is
that right?
Paul Oehme: It’s a looping system so water can.
Councilman Laufenburger: Explain that.
Paul Oehme: Water can be provided from either direction depending upon demand.
Councilman Laufenburger: So right now it can’t be?
Paul Oehme: Right now.
Mayor Furlong: There is no water.
Councilman Laufenburger: Let’s talk about Springfield.
Mayor Furlong: Oh I’m sorry.
Councilman Laufenburger: The source of water for Springfield is a single source off of Lyman, is that
correct?
Paul Oehme: Well there’s two, I think there’s at least two connections off of Lyman. One at the
Summerfield Drive on the east end and then the other access to the west.
Councilman Laufenburger: So there’s, I’ll call it there’s fail safe delivery of the water in that
neighborhood?
Paul Oehme: It’s already, Summerfield’s already looped.
Councilman Laufenburger: But your plan is to incorporate Kiowa into that multiple delivery loop, is that
correct?
Paul Oehme: That’s correct.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay, good. And that’s obviously value to the neighborhoods and gives us
an opportunity to manage the distribution.
Paul Oehme: Redundancy in water distribution is always advantageous.
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Let’s see. Let’s see. Tom mentioned some other measures, a traffic
circle. What are some other measures to control traffic? Is a speed bump or a speed trough possible?
Paul Oehme: Speed humps are another tool in the toolbox that can be considered.
Councilman Laufenburger: They’re rough on our snowplows aren’t they?
Paul Oehme: Yeah, and low profile cars too don’t like them every once in a while.
Councilman Laufenburger: Like a ’67 GTO would have a problem?
Paul Oehme: Maybe so, and some neighbors like them. Some don’t too. It’s personal preference.
Councilman Laufenburger: What else? What else are other measures?
Paul Oehme: You can narrow the road instead of putting something in the center of the road. You could
shrink the road down a little bit. There is striping. Different type of striping.
Councilman Laufenburger: That’s the ^^^^^^^^^^^^^.
Paul Oehme: Yeah, well you could do that but you know just narrowing the drive lanes to have it feel
restraint or constricted sometimes helps with traffic speeds so there’s other measures too.
Councilman Laufenburger: Alright. You talked about mailboxes. I didn’t think about this but these
mailboxes are going to be erupted from their current placement and then you work with the post office to
make sure that the mailboxes get, that mail gets delivered. Would we then return the mailboxes to the
original place where the homeowner had them?
Paul Oehme: Correct.
Councilman Laufenburger: Our expense?
Paul Oehme: Yep. That’s correct. That’s part of the project cost and those mailboxes will be…
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Let’s see. So we deliver water to the property line. The homeowner
pays for delivery from the line to the house, correct?
Paul Oehme: Correct.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Mr. Sohrweide identified an 85 percentile, 28.5 miles per hour under
30. That essentially substantiates that the 30 miles per hour speed limit seems to be appropriate for that
area, right? Am I saying that correctly?
Paul Oehme: Right, we did not document a speeding concern under that study.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Is it possible to know the fastest speed that was recorded during that
time?
Paul Oehme: Yeah, we do document that. I don’t know if I have that.
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
Councilman Laufenburger: Is that something you can share or is that private information?
Paul Oehme: No, absolutely we can share that if we can find it.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay, I’ll allow you to answer that one and I think that’s all I have for right
now Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you.
Councilman Laufenburger: Thank you. When you get the answer you can answer okay?
Mayor Furlong: Alright. Let’s see if I have questions for anybody except Paul. I don’t so I’ll let him
keep looking.
Paul Oehme: I don’t think I have. I have hourly counts but I don’t have the speed counts it looks like.
I’m sorry. Tom do you have it? Yeah as I recall it was maybe a couple of miles over 30. 30 miles an
hour. 32-33 I think was.
Mayor Furlong: You think it was between 30 and 35?
Paul Oehme: It was between 30 and 35 as I recall. There was nothing over 40. So I’m sorry.
Mayor Furlong: Just a quick follow up on one of the questions that Mr. Laufenburger asked with regard
to the watermain. For clarification this project includes putting a watermain in under Kiowa Trail as part
of the project. That’s an improvement that is proposed to be 100% assessed. The cost for that is to be
100% assessed to the benefitting properties, the 24 properties on Kiowa Trail. That will stub out the
water service to the edge of the right-of-way or to the property line, correct?
Paul Oehme: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. So in the future when a property owner wants to connect to that, they’ve already
paid for the watermain, they’d have to pay for the piping on their property. Is there an additional cost to
the City that they’d have to pay at the time that they hook up?
Paul Oehme: There would be a connection fee associated with that.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. And that, and what’s the difference between the assessment for paying for the
watermain now. I think it’s water to their property. What’s that connection fee for? What’s that, what
does that cover? What are they paying for there?
Paul Oehme: Well the future, the connection to the property.
Mayor Furlong: At the time that they hook up to the watermain.
Paul Oehme: Yep, so that would cover you know ongoing and capital costs associated with wells, water
towers, distribution mains, maintenance.
Mayor Furlong: So everything to get the water there.
Paul Oehme: Right, basically to get the water there so and capital costs for the additional.
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
Mayor Furlong: The rest of the.
Paul Oehme: The needs for that capacity.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. And so that would be charged at the time that they choose to hook up.
Paul Oehme: Correct. That doesn’t have to be, that’s not associated with this project.
Mayor Furlong: Right, okay. Alright. With regard to construction, do you anticipate having, we’re
going to talk about the Minnewashta Heights project next meeting. Do you anticipate having the same
firm do both projects or do you see the construction firms as being different?
Paul Oehme: We anticipate, we’d like to let them out at the same time. One contractor.
Mayor Furlong: One contractor for both projects.
Paul Oehme: For both projects right.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. And then with regard to the scheduled completion and we’ll get into
Minnewashta Heights later, do you see any concerns about the single contractor being able to complete
both projects within the timeframe that you’ve laid out?
Paul Oehme: Not necessarily. I mean one, a little over one miles worth of streets is not uncommon for
street reconstruction projects of this nature.
Mayor Furlong: Even given the distance between the two projects?
Paul Oehme: Yeah, I don’t see that being a big issue for a contractor.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. And with regard to during the construction process, stormwater management.
This project, well both projects are near lakes.
Paul Oehme: Right.
Mayor Furlong: What precautions are you anticipating, are you going to require the contractor to take to
manage stormwater during the construction project so we don’t have mud coming down.
Paul Oehme: Yep, thank you Mayor. So the design will include a erosion control plan that is put forward
with the construction documents so the contractor’s required to meet or exceed those requirements. The
contractor also has to pull the NPDES permit and there is, will be site inspections making sure that the silt
fence is up property prior to the construction start and then during the construction. There is also
subsequent inspections after rain events to make sure that the silt fence and the storm sewer construction
measures are being maintained and are working adequately.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. And what about access to the properties during construction?
Paul Oehme: So access would be provided under normal circumstances on a daily basis. There will be
times when say a watermain or storm sewer is going in front of somebody’s house so they would not have
access so we require, well the inspector and/or the contractor will notify the property owner the day prior
or that what’s going to happen in front of their house so you know we would request that if you need to
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
get out of your house at a certain time that you know either you’d have to park at a different location or
maybe leave at just a little bit earlier than you had anticipated.
Mayor Furlong: And do you expect for these projects to have a city staff member be the on site liaison
and inspector?
Paul Oehme: Right that’s our goal. That’s our goal. Typically that’s how it happens.
Mayor Furlong: That’s what we’ve done in the past.
Paul Oehme: That’s what we’ve done in the past, right.
Mayor Furlong: Alright. With regard to the traffic counts, and it sounds like and I think in the report that
the estimated volume if the barrier is removed to 500 vehicles a day sounded a little conservative because
you said you included 200 vehicles going through even though based on your peak time estimates it was
120 or something. Can you give me a sense of, of other streets, residential streets that have similar or
more traffic than the 500 estimated? And again I’m going off the estimate that a typical residential street
has the capacity for 1,000 cars a day. I assume that 1,000 from an engineering standpoint represents a
safe level of traffic. Is that a fair statement? That’s a normal level of traffic that is safe operation for all
concerned.
Paul Oehme: Right.
Mayor Furlong: So I guess my sense is, I’m guessing not all residential streets in our city have 1,000
vehicles going up and down a day. In fact many are probably much less. Can you give me a sense of
others that have something in the 500 or 700 range that are residential streets or 800 or somewhere higher
level?
Paul Oehme: Sure. Yep, so for local streets we typically don’t take traffic counts for local streets. We
take them from our collector roadways. It’s part of the State requirement to gather that information.
Mayor Furlong: That would be in this case it’d be Lyman and 101.
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Paul Oehme: Yeah, Lyman, 101 or Powers or 78 Street.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Paul Oehme: But you know we, to try to answer your question Mayor. I would say Longacres Drive may
be a similar situation as here. I know we’ve taken traffic counts in that area and that’s about 690 trips per
day that’s through a residential neighborhood. I think that one also does have a private park in it as well.
Councilman Laufenburger: Did you measure that between Galpin and 41?
Paul Oehme: Galpin and 41, correct.
Mayor Furlong: They’ve got the park on the east and.
Paul Oehme: North side.
Mayor Furlong: North side of, on the east end near Galpin and then isn’t there a park or something on the
west side over by 41 too by the…tennis courts over there. Okay.
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Paul Oehme: Lake Susan Drive comes to mind. I know we resurfaced that road several years ago and
traffic concerns in that neighborhood were similar to what we’re talking about here and I think, as I recall
traffic volumes in that neighborhood were approximately what we’re talking about here. 500 to 600 trips
per day range. That one I know has a public park in it. A city park in it so.
Mayor Furlong: How about Kiowa here is a little bit narrower than our typical road. Longacres to me is
probably closer though. I know when that went through Ms. Aanenson I’m guessing there might have
been some accommodations to Longacres street widths too, I don’t know but are there other
neighborhoods that are similar street widths and what sort of traffic volumes are they taking?
Paul Oehme: Yeah I’m trying to think but Carver Beach Road comes to mind as a narrower roadway.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Paul Oehme: That’s a rural section roadway too that has a park on it.
Mayor Furlong: You’re saying up by Powers Boulevard?
Paul Oehme: Yep.
Mayor Furlong: East of Powers.
Paul Oehme: Yep, just east of Powers. Nez Perce area but I think volumes in that area are similar to
what we’re talking about here as well.
Mayor Furlong: In the 500.
Paul Oehme: In the 500 to 600.
Mayor Furlong: 500 to 600? Okay. Alright. That’s helpful. Good. Any other questions for staff at this
time. We may have some as residents speak.
Councilman Laufenburger: Just one Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Mr. Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Oehme you, let’s talk about the assessment of the watermain. You
identified two units for Bandimere Park. Describe why or can you tell us why two units?
Paul Oehme: That’s for the street assessments I believe.
Councilman Laufenburger: Oh yeah, street assessments.
Paul Oehme: Street assessments so in the past where there is a public city facility we’ve assessed a
certain, estimated a certain traffic associated with that usage and based upon that we’ve associated a
certain number of assessable units for the improvements. It’s realizing that there is some traffic and some
benefit for the public access in these neighborhoods.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. But there’s no watermain stubs for Bandimere Park?
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
Paul Oehme: Correct. There’s no watermain stubs.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Let’s go ahead then and we’ll open up the public meeting or public hearing
portion of the meeting here on this issue. What I’d like to do is a couple things. First, because it’s the
Kiowa residents that are directly affected with regard to the assessment, I’d like to make sure we hear
from all them first with regard to that. We’ll have plenty of time for everybody to speak that wants to
speak about it but especially as you address the council, as Councilwoman Tjornhom mentioned, please
give us your thoughts with regard to the entire project. Are the street improvements appropriate?
Necessary. Are the watermain you know appropriate or not? Storm water issues laid out. Obviously the
connection or the removal of the connection will be an issue and that certainly should be addressed but
the item before us tonight is going to be are these appropriate, cost effective, feasible and so if you agree
that they are please let us know. If you think that they’re not, please let us know as well and then
anything else related to the projects that you’d like to mention so let’s start with residents that live on
Kiowa first and then when we get through that group we’ll open it up to anyone else and obviously
Springfield residents will be welcomed and any other interested party. Thank you. And if we can try to
limit our time at the podium to one time and we’ll get through a little bit faster. I still have the gavel.
Thank you. Good evening.
Jamie Heilicher: Name, Jamie Heilicher. 9280 Kiowa Trail. Lived there for 28 years. I want to start by
thanking the members obviously for your time and commitment to the city and I realize this is kind of a
thankless job at times. You’ve got a lot of people on both sides of an issue. I think you’ll find in this
case that you have a super majority that is going to be in favor of keeping that barrier up between the two
communities so I think you’ll get a lot of overwhelming thank you if you vote to at least keep that barrier
up. We understand the needs for the upgrade for Kiowa Trail to both redo the city street and bring in
water is a necessary part of the improvements of the community. The roadway has been falling apart for
years and I’m sure you’ve seen the complaints that we’ve all been sending off to you with the potholes
and everything else and connecting up to city water obviously is necessary to create a proper loop. What
we’re most concerned about is that divider between the two communities for traffic purposes. The
concern about safety and so forth. Increased traffic on a street that’s you know significantly narrower
than the Springfield street. You’re going from a wide, current zoning street to a much narrower street
which again you know cars parked on that street, cars flying through there is an added safety issue.
Increased traffic on the street for what is really a pedestrian street. Kiowa Trail is a, you know is
connected to the community park in three different places. At the beginning, the middle and the end and
so Kiowa Trail is always a pedestrian street so we are really concerned about the, you know I mean it may
not seem like 500 cars is a lot when you’re going from 200 cars to 500 cars, you know it’s a significant
increase in traffic on a fairly narrow street. Also obviously the cut through from additional
neighborhoods and there are more neighborhoods than just to the north. There are neighborhoods to the
northwest that, or to the northeast that will also use that roadway and there are additional development
that is going to happen directly to the north that may use Kiowa and Springfield as a short cut. As we all
know anytime you can avoid a stop sign is a reason to use a short cut. And obviously the increased
changes of incident at 101 and Kiowa for those people moving to the south on 101 that are going to have
to now cross a much busier street, especially when 101 is completed across the river down the road, as
well as now there’s two lanes going in both directions when the road is finally finished. You’re going to
be crossing lanes on a street that’s going to get busier and busier for people to egress from Shakopee up to
212 and down or however they’re going to be in whatever direction. We have a very friendly pedestrian
community now between the two communities because we all are adjacent to the same park so I don’t
think you know creating an opening between the communities is going to create any advantage to making
it more of a community feel. In fact you know I’m a little concerned, I mean the community at
Springfield is a homeowners controlled community with restrictions and so forth. Kiowa is not so they’re
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going to be the same community. They’re always going to be a little different in the way we treat our
abilities to have you know boats in our driveways and baskets, you know basketball hoops on our houses
and so forth. I also want to stress that you know the key here is that the super majority of those, you
know the petition that Kiowa Trail issued and is on file with the city at the time was at the time 100% of
all addresses for Kiowa Trail signed that petition so there may be others that feel that they want to be able
to drive through but at the time the petition was issued 100% so I think that’s an important part of this.
And I’ll let others step forward and make their comments. Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, thank you.
Jim Sloss: Let me get here.
Mayor Furlong: You’re good.
Jim Sloss: Good evening. My name is Jim Sloss. I live at 9360 Kiowa Trail. I’ve been a resident here
for 25 years and Kiowa Trail up until this wonderful road improvement looked like Baghdad. We were
the ones that were dodging potholes and we were happy with that because our street really remained our
street. We have a lot more kids on the street. School buses and Paul did you say 25 feet wide?
Paul Oehme: 24…
Jim Sloss: Okay. And we’ve been through this with Paul. Our driveways are fairly steep and if we cut
into them we’re not going to be able to get in but the you know you’ve addressed that issue and we’re
very happy with it but the barricade up on the end, that’s been a plus for all of us and as far as public
safety goes, to come winding all the way through Springfield, it just doesn’t make any sense when they
can use 101, come right in on the south end of Kiowa and take care of business. So I mean that’s
something that I’d like you to take a look at. Public safety. Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. And excuse me, with regard to. I’m sorry, with regard to the street
improvements, the watermain, all those, everything else is fine.
Jim Sloss: Great. Just great.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Jim Sloss: Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: No, appreciate it. Thank you.
Rick Brama: So fun.
Mayor Furlong: You’re going to do fine.
Rick Brama: Hi, my name is Rick Brama. I live at 9371 Kiowa Trail and I think it’s safe to say I’m
probably the newest resident of Kiowa Trail. We moved in in August. I’m a licensed real estate broker
for a number of years and a licensed home builder. Custom home builder. General contractor. We
purchased there primarily because of the value that was seen in a neighborhood that had a certain amount
of privacy and limited access. And I think the most important thing right now is that I’m sitting here and
I’m listening to all of this conversation and we are just begging the question, why would we even, let me
stop for a second. First of all I support the improvement of the road and I support the water. Okay. I’ve
been sitting here and beg the question, why would we even consider connecting these two and I just have
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a couple of short points here, okay. I’m looking at the pros and cons, which have already been identified
here by professionals that have been hired to identify those for us. Okay. A couple of pros. Alternative
access for the neighborhood to the north. Well the problem with that pros is they don’t need it at all.
They have very, very good access to roads that the city has spent a significant amount of money
improving which is Lyman and 101. Okay. So I think we’re even doing a disservice to the work that’s
been done on the roads that have already been paid for by providing another source or another avenue for
them to get directed out of that neighborhood. So that’s the first one. Emergency. Yeah well I live on
the street. Of course. I’ve got children. I’ve got a family. Of course I want to have good access. I don’t
want to be with the people who were here before us listening about a woman who’s house burnt down
because the second emergency vehicle wasn’t able to get through there. What I will tell you is we’ve
identified the width of the road. You have already said it is wide enough. It’s not going to be widen. It’s
not going to be improved because it’s more than sufficient for emergency vehicles the way it is. I have
not heard anything from anybody, and please correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t believe there’s any risk
issues with emergency vehicles getting in and out, especially considering that there has been a cul-de-sac
at the end of this road for what? More than 30 years. Am I right? So that’s been there and there has not
been an emergency vehicles and again if I’m wrong there, and I don’t think there’s any issues whatsoever
with emergency vehicle traveling through the neighborhood to the north either. Springfield. Okay. And
the last one, pros. Ease of access for snowplows. Once again guys, they’ve been doing this for years and
years and years and they’ve been doing it on a really crummy road like Baghdad and they’re going to be a
lot happier doing it on a smooth road but why would we need to improve the access between the
communities for the snowplows. Okay the cons. Increase in the traffic by 150% on our road. Okay.
Again I understand that still fits within the parameters of 500 cars per neighborhood. That’s not a big
deal in general. Okay. But you are increasing it 150% and that is going to dramatically change the way
that that road is actually used. The other thing is you’ve got what? 26, 23, 26, again I’m brand new but
you’ve got 23 to 26 homeowners paying for that road, which we just identified we’re all happy to pay for
that road but I don’t think anybody here is happy to pay for that road and gain an additional 300 cars per
day in traffic. Another con. People will not use the roads, and I already mentioned this. People will not
use the roads that the city has already invested a tremendous amount of time and energy just finishing
massive improvements to 101. That’s going to be bypassed by people taking the shortcut through the
neighborhood. Why do that? Why did we improve 101 in the first place if we don’t intend for people to
use it? Okay. Also as a real estate broke I will tell you that it’s pretty much guaranteed that the
improvement to the road will improve our values. Adding city water will improve the values. Increasing
the car count and the traffic count in that neighborhood, a neighborhood that’s designed to serve a park.
That is a pedestrian road without sidewalks. That’s not wide will absolutely decrease the value of each
individual’s property on that street quite significantly because of the difference in traffic count. People
move there for a reason. There’s large lots and there’s a lake there for a reason and a park on the other
side for a reason so that will be an effect. And the last thing is the traffic assessment. Please take into
consideration that in, with all due respect I think it’s amazing that we got information from a professional
on traffic count but consider that anybody considering traveling from the north now, and we’re doing
traffic counts of how many people might cut through, you’re going to get probably 90% of people who
have been on that road will not cut through because of the condition of the road. We improve that road,
make it nice and smooth. No stop signs. No real turns in it. Nice and easy and actually it’s quite
beautiful. It’s actually a nice little way to cut through and travel on your southbound. So I think those are
going to be a little bit skewed because you’re about to change the road and make it a lot easier for people
to travel so thank you so much for the opportunity to speak and let me know if you have any questions.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you.
Renee Anderson: Good evening. I should almost say good morning pretty quick.
Mayor Furlong: Whoa, whoa, we’ve got plenty of time.
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Renee Anderson: My name is Renee Anderson and I live at 9380 Kiowa Trail and I’ve lived there for 12
years and I’d like to specifically speak to Mr. McDonald’s point about the cut through traffic. I have
struggled with being on either side of the barricade. I’ve seen how nice it is to be able to cut through
Springfield but I also don’t know why I would because I am 3 houses in from the end of 101 and anytime
I’m either going south on 101 or north I’m going to go out 101 and I think that where the divider is is
going to be halfway down Kiowa and then maybe even going three-quarters of the way north on Kiowa.
The quarter end may go north and cut through Springfield but the bottom line is Springfield does have a
lot of curves and it’s not quick and easy. 101 is certainly a lot quicker and easier in my opinion to get
through now because of the speed limit. It’s been straighten out and it flows and yes, you run into a stop
light but you’re going to hit that when you get onto Lyman anyway. The other point is that you say well,
what about the people coming down Springfield into Kiowa? Well those are going to be the people that
are going to head south on 101. If they’re going to go north they’re going to head out their own exits and
I think the vast majority of the traffic is going to be going north, either to 212 into Chanhassen. Primarily
actually 212 so I’ve struggled with it in the end. I am one of the two houses that have 3 each of the
youngest children on the street and I actually think that the biggest problem, and I don’t mean to digress
into a whole other Pandora’s box is the speed on Kiowa in two particular points and that is, if you’re
standing out by your front door, right to the right where you all of a sudden have a sight line where you
can see and we can hear the engines rev and then they speed past and then they round a little bit just past
Brama’s house. Little bit further and then they get to the top of a hill and then there’s a whole other sight
line down by Heilicher’s house and then they go again and that’s actually more of a concern I think. And
to his point when the road, when Kiowa is made all nice and smooth it’s going to pick up and those
speeds are going to be even worst, and I’m going to say some of the speeders are the residents on Kiowa,
believe it or not. You know you get used to a road and you know where the curves are and you know
where the watch points are and you know anything that’s familiar to you, you get used to kind of doing it
with your eyes closed. So I do have fears now when Mr. Brama brought up that point about the road
being nice and smooth and I thought, that’s a good point because then people might be more inclined to
use it. I think one thing we also need to consider is, as long as it’s kept with the barricade you’re getting
double the traffic from school buses going in and out because they’ve got to go all the way in. Turn
around at the cul-de-sac. Come way back out again. Same thing with the garbage trucks. Now are they
going to use the shortcut through Springfield? Probably not because we have some different trash
collectors between the two neighborhoods but UPS trucks may and so forth so we are getting double the
traffic on Kiowa just by virtue of the fact that they have to turn around in the cul-de-sac. Last but not
least, I’ve always said ever since day one I moved in the neighborhood, I will open a lemonade stand for
anybody who brings me water. So I’m all in favor of that. Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Before the next person comes up, Mr. Oehme a couple questions. Mr.
Brama and Ms. Anderson both talked about the smoothness of the road and speeds. What’s been our
experience? I mean we’ve been making road improvements for a number of years in residential
neighborhoods. What’s been our experience there?
Paul Oehme: You know it’s, the few times I think that we’ve actually had requests for speed studies after
projects, I don’t think there has been a significant increase in speeding in those areas. I think from a
residential perspective, when you’re standing on the side of a curb looking at traffic going by, I think it
maybe feels and visually looks faster than potentially the vehicle is going so in the reconstruction areas
we really haven’t documented that smoother roads means a faster, faster trips through the neighborhood.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Anyone else? Kiowa. Good evening.
Ron Frigstad: My name is Ron Frigstad and I live at 9270 Kiowa Trail. I agree and want to congratulate
the council and the city for improving our street and bringing water to the street. It’s a long overdue
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project. I moved into my home in 1994 and Kiowa Trail to my understanding has always been a cul-de-
sac. Before Springfield was platted there was a farmstead there to the north of my home and after
Springfield was built out and the pavement was done and we had the cul-de-sac we went through it with
Nancy Mancino when she was mayor and we got the agreement to put up the barricade again and we did
the same thing with the park. Same procedure. I don’t remember 212 being involved in the discussion at
all. You know it was just, if we have a majority of the residents in Springfield and Kiowa that agree, then
we’d open it up. But I don’t see how 212 got in there at all. I have a question about the well. If I choose
not to hook up to the city can I replace my pump in my well?
Paul Oehme: The City doesn’t monitor closely.
Ron Frigstad: But you said as long as the well’s functioning you can continue to use it.
Paul Oehme: Right.
Ron Frigstad: Well what is the definition of a malfunctioning well?
Paul Oehme: Well typically when the well runs dry. You know when you have to drill a well that’s
deeper or in a different location.
Ron Frigstad: So no more wells can be drilled?
Paul Oehme: Correct. That’s.
Ron Frigstad: Okay. But if we need an upgrade…
Paul Oehme: Yeah, I mean minor maintenance, those type of things.
Ron Frigstad: That wasn’t clear with the way you stated it.
Paul Oehme: Okay.
Ron Frigstad: And I want to also mention that the ultimate traffic calming device is a barricade.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you very much.
Melinda Reiter: Good evening. My name’s Melinda Reiter. I live at 9131 Springfield Drive and I
wanted to speak from a mom’s point of view. I wanted to first of all mention that I thought it was
interesting that the peak periods of time for increased traffic are during the school bus routing times
through out neighborhood. I know my daughter walks across the street at 7:00 a.m. in the morning to
catch her bus. In the wintertime it’s dark out. It’s hard to see. I think that it’s important that we
recognize that we are a neighborhood with lots of children. There are at least 44 kids just on Springfield
Drive. In the neighborhood of Springfield easily over 270 kids. I myself have two 4 year olds. I have a
13 year old so it’s very important to me. I think it’s also very important to note that the main area of
concern that I have, and I live right across the street from the park, is the park. We are so lucky in our
neighborhood to have a basketball court. Two basketball courts. A pool. We have a gazebo. We have a
playground. This is where the kids congregate. If you were to stand in my driveway during the
summertime you would see countless kids on their bikes, on their skateboards, they’re running around.
There’s balls flying into the street from the basketball court. There’s kids running across the street to get
to the pool. And then running back again because they forgot their pool key. That’s just our
neighborhood and we know to watch for that because we see it every day. If you allow in commuters
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who aren’t familiar with our neighborhood, are they going to slow down at those points where we’re
familiar with? We’re also talking about at the park during the summertime there are numerous vans that
are parked on that curve where the park is, and these vans are from the neighborhood because you know
there’s houses that aren’t, neighbors that don’t live close enough to just walk to the pool so they drive and
they drive their minivans, their SUV’s, their large vehicles and they’re all lined up on Springfield Drive
so when kids are darting in and out to get to their homes on Springfield Drive, are they watching for this
increased amount of traffic that’s going to be coming through our neighborhood? Probably not. Are the
cars watching for those kids? Probably not. Those vehicles that are parked on Springfield Drive are
going to create a problem for all this increased traffic that’s going to be coming through. So I just think
it’s important to think about this as a parent. If you have kids what would you do? Would you want the
barrier removed or would you want it to stay in place? I want it to stay in place? Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Anyone else from Kiowa that would like to address the council? No? If not
then other interested parties, be happy to address the council on this matter.
Fred Souza: Good evening. My name is Fred Souza. I live at 9150 Springfield Drive. First I want to
thank the mayor and the City Council for being patient with us as we’ve moved through this over the last
several months. Meeting with us and helping us understand and I think also we’ve shed some light for
the council and the mayor on what we consider some concerns. Paul has been exceptional working with
us. Anything we’ve asked for Paul and Alyson have been immediately on that with us. Before I get into
any of my slides I just want to ask I guess a procedural question. Tonight the council, from what I’m
understanding is going to be voting on the street improvements. Is it an all or nothing? Is the barrier
going to be carved out in a vote to say the City Council is supporting the residents in removing, keeping
the barrier up or is it all going to be part of the development plan?
Mayor Furlong: No, that’s a fair question. Mr. Oehme, obviously the ultimate motion will dictate you
know what the council action is but with regard to the feasibility study and the resolution that’s in our
packet, and you’re asking about the barrier remaining or being removed. How does the feasibility study
deal with that? How’s the resolution deal with that?
Paul Oehme: So the barricade option is not separated out from the motion.
Mayor Furlong: Right.
Paul Oehme: That’s before you tonight. Obviously council has the option to remove that section from
the project scope if they so choose.
Mayor Furlong: And what is currently that section is that there would not be a barrier is that correct?
Paul Oehme: Currently there would not be a barricade.
Mayor Furlong: Based on the current feasibility study.
Paul Oehme: Based on the current feasibility study the road would continue through up into Springfield
so that’s the baseline I’ll call it and the motion is just to accept the feasibility and order the project
basically so.
Mayor Furlong: Order the project, right. And I think to answer your question Mr. Souza, I think it will
be abundantly clear after we’re done hearing public comments and having comments among the council
what the entire scope of the project will be including the barrier.
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
Fred Souza: Okay. Alright. The next slide is, this is just an illustration of the area in question. As our
friends on Kiowa have said there’s a cul-de-sac on the Kiowa side and on the Springfield side it’s a dead
end for all intent and purposes. You know on the next slide, I’m not going to stand up here and challenge
you know Tom who’s put a lot of work and effort into the traffic study. I will tell you that if I’m not
mistaken a lot of the decision points on his traffic study was based on assumptions because our area was
too small to actually sample so what myself and a few of the other residents did is we actually spent the
time and we drove the distance and we clocked the miles and you know the distance it’s you know if you,
the issue is the north communities of Reflection. The new Lakeside up on the hill by Lake Riley. That’s
a concern. Time, if I can save a minute by going through Springfield and Kiowa and avoid the light to
101 south, you know I’m going to do it and the more people, I know that we talked about initially there’s
going to be a sample of potential people using that as cut through. It’s going to grow. Word of mouth
flies fast. If I can avoid a light I’m going to do it. The bottom line is that from a mile perspective it’s a
35% decrease in miles going down Springfield to Kiowa versus going all the way down, excuse me
Lyman to 101 south so again you know couple minutes here or there I think it’s not going to be that big of
an issue. In my opinion, and as I’m saying I’m speaking for the overwhelming majority of the residents
of the Springfield neighborhood. Over 81% of our neighbors are supporting leaving the barrier in place.
100% of the residents that have homes on Springfield Drive, 100% of them are opposed to removing that
barrier. My next slide Paul, again we’re not questioning speed and all I’m going to do is just draw your
attention to the numbers. Today the number of houses that go past the Springfield park, it’s 59 homes
have access to that. Now if we take that barrier down we’re going to open that access to 444 homes and I
can tell you there are 444 homes because I counted them with my neighbor Chris Duppler. There’s 444
homes in that area on the top right side of that right slide. So you know we’ve heard it from Tom. We’ve
heard it from Paul. We’ve heard the term cut through and the Comprehensive Plan is just that. It’s a
plan. One could say it’s dated but a plan is something that’s a living document and that plan needs to be
reflective of what’s happening in the community today. So you know people will challenge me to say,
well it’s really not a cut through. It’s two curvy for people to use it to get quicker access to 101 and it
doesn’t affect the speeds and I can tell you when the barrier was done speed was an issue and I’m sorry
the sheriff is here but I will tell you that vehicles did go over 40 miles and over that click. I was one of
them and I know about 6 others that did it. Just we wanted to get the data sample so you can do 40 miles
on that road. It’s difficult.
Mayor Furlong: I’m sorry, you’re saying when they.
Fred Souza: When they were traffic studying.
Mayor Furlong: When they were traffic studying.
Fred Souza: Yeah. And I’m sorry to the sheriff’s department but again it can be done. And a bigger
issue on speed in the neighborhood is 30 miles an hour is the speed limit. It’s not posted is too fast. It’s
too fast for our neighborhood and I would suggest the Kiowa residents would agree. That 30 miles an
hour is too fast. So again I, this slide. I just want to leave with a couple points. The number 444 and the
word cut through. Okay. The next slide just speaks to average daily traffic counts and you know the
st
Chan Villager in their wisdom put a nice article out on January 1 referencing the 101 bridge construction
as the bridge of the new year. Bridge to the new year. It’s also the largest construction project in Carver
County history and as the numbers will tell you, we’re going to double. We’re going to be doubling
estimated daily traffic on 101 coming up from the bridge. And again referring back to the Comprehensive
Plan which is a living document and you know maybe it will change at some point in time but it clearly
states the increased traffic running through the city of Chanhassen is going to direct more traffic to side
roads and create local arterial systems to relieve traffic. Again you know I think one person mentioned
earlier, you know it’s only 500 vehicles a day. On the Springfield side that’s a 66% increase in traffic.
On Kiowa where it’s double the amount of traffic and I’m not sure how you feel Mr. Mayor or the City
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Council feels, I don’t know that you’d want 66% more traffic driving down your street. And all I’m
asking is we take that into consideration as we move forward in the discussion for the project. My next
slide quickly. We’ve really beaten the ground on this as it relates to safety. You know it’s not about the
35% decrease in miles. It’s not about the 1 minute quicker accessing through Springfield Kiowa. It’s
truly about the safety. It’s about the safety in the neighborhood. Today if I was driving up 101 from
Kiowa and took a left on Lyman I’m only interchanging or I’m interacting with 7 driveways so my, if
I’m, my 20 year old daughter when she drives the car, I’m concerned about the number of accident points
that she potentially could cross. Now if we open up that 101, that moves it up to 43 residential driveways
that people commuting on that road are going to have access to and the potential impact for issue. You
know we have our Springfield pool. We’re very, very happy with the neighborhood pool. The
association’s invested a lot of time in that pool. A lot of money and it is without a doubt the collection
point as soon as it opens, and I guess this year it’s probably be around August but once that pool is
opened through Labor Day, and this year we actually kept it open a couple weeks later, it is the collection
point. It’s where the mums and the dads bring the families in the afternoon. The cars are parked all along
and I know in the notes for the meeting suggestion was made is maybe we restrict parking to the other
side. Regardless if we’re parking on the right side or the left side of the street, we’re still going to have
visibility issues and as our neighbor had mentioned earlier, the kids, the little kids and we’re diligent
parents watching them but for those of you that have children you know there is that time when they just
get out of your hand or they’re shooting across the street and they’re going to get someone at the
basketball court or they’re riding their bike or their scooter so there’s significant issue there. The golf
course. A phenomenal, the disc golf course. A phenomenal addition to Bandimere. We’ve seen
increased traffic with just other people in there. Not residents in our neighborhood but people just wanting
to go and play the Frisbee golf. The poor line of sight, and I have a slide further down in the deck that
can speak to some of the line of sights in the neighborhood but more importantly the line of sight, when
you’re coming out of Springfield onto Lyman, right now the snow, you can’t see down the hill coming up
on Lyman just because of the way the snow is. I mean the path is cut open. Even when there’s no snow
there you’ve got to edge out a little bit more. Increasing traffic there is going to increase, in my opinion,
my humble opinion is going to increase the exposure for potential accidents again. Jamie had mentioned
about the uncontrolled intersection at 101. Now in my conversations with some of the City Council
members individually, not as a group, comments were made well why would somebody even want to go
down Kiowa and take a left on 101. Why? Because it’s quicker. If it’s quicker. You know am I going to
risk, and is it going to be a headache for me to do that? You know I’m from the northeast so I can handle
that without a doubt. You know I’m not concerned about it and I would suggest that the majority of the
people are going to be in the same camp. There’s a risk for potential issue there. Unfamiliar drivers.
When the barrier was taken down, I know earlier someone from Kiowa mentioned that most of the
speeding was on the Kiowa side and I would suggest that some of it was the Springfield side but to the
mayor and the City Council on behalf of Kiowa and Springfield we will work to enforce that and we’ll
call out the people that are speeding. Okay. But unfamiliar drivers, particularly when we had the Tonka
tournament, and I believe someone will speak about this later tonight. You know people do go down
Springfield or they come up Kiowa and they take a left on the pedestrian path that goes into the
Bandimere Park. Not safe. Not legal. But that’s a, whether the barrier’s there or not that will still happen
but when the tournament’s going on there’s a lot of unfamiliar folks driving in our neighborhood with
their little GPS in one hand, really not paying attention to their surroundings. The width of the roads,
Councilman McDonald had mentioned earlier about the, you know to create a funnel. We don’t have to
put anything in the way because it already is there. We’re taking a 31 foot street on Springfield and we’re
directing it into a 24 foot access so the bad news is the folks on Kiowa will have, I believe it will slow
some people down but the bigger issue coming out of that funnel it means okay, I’m on easy street now
and I can pick up my speed. Again it’s been mentioned several times about no sidewalks. For those
people that use Bandimere for walking their dogs or just exercising, you can go up through the park and
come down through Bandimere Heights. If you want to get back up Springfield you walk in the street.
There’s no sidewalk there and I can’t speak to the recommendation, the plan about creating a sidewalk on
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that side from Bandimere up to Springfield. I know if it was one of my homes I wouldn’t want to put a
sidewalk cut through my yard but there is an issue there. My next slide is just as I mentioned earlier, this
is a graphic of the neighborhood and you can see the pool and park are highlighted up there. It’s a curvy
road. I don’t know that that slows people down and you know one of the days when the sheriff’s
department was there working with us, you know trying to identify who’s speeding, the officer that was
there explained to me, he goes listen. When vehicles are going through curves they look like they’re
going faster than they really are and again it beckons my call earlier that 30 miles an hour is too fast for
that neighborhood. Line of sight issue around the pool, and I do hope, I know that Councilman
McDonald’s been to our neighborhood several times for the Nights Out. I encourage you to come to the
neighborhood and just take a look at it. It’s a difficult area to maneuver and if we’re increasing traffic
there, there’s going to be a problem. My next slide, you know we’ve been trying since we started this
process to work with the City and work with Paul’s office to come up with some reasonable solutions so
at the end of the day the City Council and the mayor can say we’re adhering to Comprehensive Plan to the
best of our ability. We’re listening to what the constituents have to say and we’ve come up with a
reasonable solution. So we came up with a couple of barricade suggestions. They’re all break away
barriers so from an aesthetic perspective if people are concerned about aesthetics, the old barrier with the
wooden post in the cement, you know it could be an old school bus for all I care. We just, I just want to
hope that we can keep some type of barrier there to keep that road closed. And the next slide is, you
know we’re not asking any member of the City Council or the mayor to do anything that already hasn’t
been done before. Precedent has been set with the Stone Creek and Timber Creek neighborhoods where
that issue came up in 2011 to connect the roads. Now granted there was an infrastructure expense by
adding additional roadway in there but at that time the City Council listened and heard what the
neighborhoods had asked and that barrier is still there today so we’re not asking anyone on the City
Council or the mayor to do anything that hasn’t been done before. You know in conclusion I appreciate
the time that you’ve provided me to speak about the Springfield neighborhood and our overwhelming
opposition to removing the barrier that currently is in place between Kiowa and Springfield Drive. I’d
ask you to keep the following items in mind as you consider what the residents of Springfield and Kiowa
are requesting. Now to be absolutely clear, leave the barrier in place. My five points. Number one.
100% of the residents on Springfield Drive want the barrier to stay. 100% of the residents in Kiowa want
the barrier to stay. Number two is, as I mentioned earlier, the Comprehensive Plan is just that. It’s a plan.
It’s a recommended guide that is designed to change and evolve as our city does. You know Mr. Mayor
in the Southwest Metro Magazine you’re quoted as saying, we must look long term and not be reactionary
and that’s exactly what I’m asking the City Council to do tonight. Is let’s look at this long term. Let’s
look at the impacts overall and let’s not be reactionary. The third is regardless of how you interrupt this
project removing this barrier will create cut through traffic. It’s going to create direct access to over 400
homes to Highway 101 south. The fourth, is this cut through will create safety issues. As I said earlier a
66% traffic increase for the residents of Springfield is significant. 100% traffic increase for our friends on
Kiowa is ridiculous. The fifth point. As I said we’re not asking the City Council, the Mayor’s office to
do anything different than has been done before. Precedence has been set with Stone Creek and Timber
Lodge. Timberwood neighborhoods. In conclusion, you know I’ve been accused of being direct and I’m
going to take advantage of that right now. You know your constituents have spoken. We’ve spoken very
clearly. We want our elected officials to honor our request and keep the barrier in place. Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Anybody else?
Doug Cook: Good evening. My name is Doug Cook. I live at 9136 Springfield Drive and thank you
mayor and council to listen to us as we go late into the evening here. My wife and I built our home in
1999 in Springfield and prior to building it, I’m kind of a research guy, I knew that Flying Cloud was
expanding the runway. I knew about 212. I think Paul I don’t know if you were around in 1999 but met
with the city engineer to learn about that and also asked about the barrier and at that time it was to be
temporary for in case the fire department or emergency vehicles needed to knock it down and no
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indication of that changing. In fact at that time verbally told it wouldn’t change. Safety has always been
a concern of mine so back in 2000 started a process to start the Neighborhood Crime Watch for
Springfield and in 2001 that’s been initiated and I’ve been the coordinator of that since then and plan on
doing in the forward. Opening the barrier would certainly change the neighborhood and as
Councilwoman Tjornhom said earlier that, or asked about would it impact quality of life. I think it would.
One thing that surprised me is just by having the construction on 101 opening up Kiowa surprised me
how many cars just with that going by my home. I’m three doors from the pool there. It was just
interesting to me just with that there was a very significant difference. And as I indicated with starting the
Neighborhood Crime Watch safety has always been a concern of mine as has been spoken of many times
here with our neighborhood. There really are no fences in the whole neighborhood so kids will run you
know between homes and so forth and in the pool area, during the summer that is a big area with a lot of
cars and so forth. I’ve heard that there’s some talk, and I haven’t heard this directly from any council
member of putting up no parking signs in that area. Well that’s certainly going to change the whole feel
of the neighborhood also. I don’t think that would be received real well given our current state. I
certainly encourage growth to the area as far as new businesses and so forth outside of Springfield. I
never expected that we would have an issue like this come up where I thought that all things were covered
and things wouldn’t change from that perspective so with that I respectfully ask that the barrier stay up so
thank you for your time.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Anyone else?
Chris Duppler: Hi. I’m Chris Duppler. 9174 Springfield Drive. I’m 3 houses from the barrier and I
don’t want to beat a dead horse from you know everybody’s pretty much given their opinion and told you
we want the barrier up. Just a couple of things. You know there was talk about a boulevard or a circle or
something, speed bumps to slow traffic down. I believe as Councilman McDonald said earlier, that’s
slowing traffic down where the barrier currently is but it’s not slowing it down once the cars have come
through the funnel and they continue around. The only thing that keeps those cars from not speeding
through are not being able to get through. Let’s see. I guess the other question that I’ve asked myself a
couple of times is, it sounds like we’re going to a lot of trouble trying to come up with a lot of different
solutions to slow people down and nobody wants the barrier down. Why are we spending any time trying
to figure out a solution to something no one wants. I guess I don’t understand that and the only reason
I’ve really heard so far is, the Comprehensive Plan says that the barrier should come down. As Fred
Souza said, Comprehensive Plan is, it’s just that. It’s a plan. It can change so I’d ask you to be open to
leaving the barrier up and not feeling that you have to take it down because something that was written a
few years ago said take it down. So please consider leaving it up. Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you.
Matt Mason: Hi, I’m Matt Mason. I live at 9198 Springfield. I’m at barrier ground zero. I’m house one.
First off I’d like to say I’m all for any assessments you want to give to Kiowa. Fine by me. Paul, is it
possible to go to the pros and cons slide? I’ll be super quick here because I was fortunate enough to
speak to the mayor a few weeks back and I told him I am so new to any sort of process like this and like
Chris said, I kind of feel like I’m fighting a ghost here I mean because no one has come up to me and said
boy I want that barrier down. I just haven’t heard that so you did a great job of explaining to me kind of
how you’ve got to manage the city and what you’re looking for and I appreciate you taking the time to do
that but I just want to address a couple of the pros. So your first one is neighborhood vehicular
connection which if I remember correctly you were saying we want communities to interact. We don’t
want these pockets all over the place so I brought my children along and they’ve been happy to sit here
since 7:00. You can see the look on their face.
Councilman Laufenburger: Wait a minute, they don’t have school tomorrow.
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Matt Mason: I know. It is perfect. The stars aligned. I told them it’s perfect for you to come see our
government work so regarding there’s a point for me mentioning this. The connectivity with the
neighborhoods. My oldest Eric, why don’t you stand up Eric. You know him Denny. You announce his
name during the football games. He’s helped out the Porter’s on Kiowa. He helps them remove their
docks. He is helping Joe Galler’s wife do a bunch of, moving with some other football players, he’s
organized with some of the residents down there on Kiowa. You can sit Eric. Then you’ve got Patrick,
why don’t you stand up. My youngest. He’s a dog watcher and dog walker for many of the people down
on Kiowa so there’s just in my family alone there’s a lot of connections that go on with Kiowa. I mean
Todd Porter, he’s not here this evening, I mean he’ll come over and hide on my three season porch and
have a beer every now and then. I mean just, there’s a lot going back and forth and removing the barrier
in no way is going to improve that in my opinion. I mean it’s great, we’ve got a new neighbor I’ve never
met. Loved what you said. Looking forward to meeting you and getting to know you better. Emergency
vehicle response. All the barrier options, they can be ran through. Moved over. Whatever. Alternative
access. Same thing there. I think someone mentioned if a sewer breaks or something, whatever barrier’s
there can be removed right? As needed. Residential services and roadway maintenance. They’ve dealt
with it for years so, and then I’d like to add just a couple others. Again going back to my ghost comment.
The status quo works. For us right now the status quo works and I appreciate some of the suggestions I
think you had about, well what about a traffic circle or what not. That’s taxpayer money. We’re fixing a
problem that isn’t broke. Just again in my humble opinion being new to how the government works so
I’m really struggling with why we’re spending the time and the money to fix a problem that is only listed
in a plan but no one else sees it as a problem. So with that I’d really like to see the barricade stay up and
all for the assessments for Kiowa. Thanks.
Phil DeNucci: Hi. Phil DeNucci, 9186 Springfield. The second house up from the barrier and no
additional comments other than stating I want the barrier to remain and just reiterating to Matt, it’s Kiowa
which we all know, not Kiowa. And you know that’s important so, other than that thank you again for
your time and your service folks and appreciate everything on the council.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you.
Curt Kubilarcsik: Mr. Mayor, members of the City Council, hi. My name is Curt Kubilarcsik, 9149
Springfield Drive. Proud resident of Springfield Drive since 1999. Thanks for your consideration you
know for keeping the barrier in place. As you can see this is a very sensitive topic for us. It’s a very
important issue for the residents of the two impacted neighborhoods and we appreciate your time. I
believe that my neighbors and our neighbors on Kiowa have done just a great job tonight and actually
they’ve stolen a lot of my points that I had wanted to make here so I do have a few more that I would like
to make but I think they’ve brought up some very valid points that we’d like you to consider. I think one
of the points that I wanted to make was a question from the comp plan and Councilmember Tjornhom
you brought this up earlier and I appreciate your question so the point about the barrier shall be temporary
until either resident petition the City to open the connection or Highway 212 is construction at which time
traffic patterns will have changed. I read that, I had the same exact question. You know none of the
residents have petitioned the City to remove it so why remove it and then we have this 212 thrown on the
end of it. Paul I appreciate your response there. You know your description that at the time when that
barricade was put in place there were concerns about all the back up’s of traffic on Highway 5 and all the
other places in the city and that might lead to cut through traffic. That’s exactly our point with what the
future is going to bring so our point is with the traffic doubling on 101 and Lyman in the future, there is
going to be a traffic issue there and traffic will be looking for alternative routes and they will be using a
short cut through our neighborhood. This will happen and Paul, this is similar to what happened many,
many years ago when that barricade was first put up and we’re going to circle right back to that in the
future as well so I wanted to bring that up as one of my points. Something else I wanted to touch on was
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just a little bit of background here about our area of the city. You know this is a unique area of
Chanhassen. This is a great neighborhood. When it was built back in ’98 it was very rural down in that
area. Very rural. It was quiet. Over the course of time you know we’ve received a significant amount of
traffic increase in that area. Some of the things that have occurred, and some of this has been planned so
you know this is true. But we would like you to consider what has happened out there so we’ve had 212
come through with an interchange. It’s kind of a unique thing with an interchange in Chanhassen right
basically adjacent to our neighborhood. Large increase in traffic related to that interchange and also in
the future it’s already being planned that 212 be extended to 4 lanes you know to the west further as well
so 212 is just going to obviously just get busier and busier as time goes on as well. Another impact
adjacent to our neighborhood is the 101 expansion to 4 lanes. You know I think we all understand that
that needed to be done for the future expansion. There are other areas of the city where they’re trying to
expand roads and redo roads and they’re having some issues with that. It went through you know
adjacent to our neighborhood. We understood that there is more traffic and we need to plan for that in the
future. Another traffic generator adjacent to our neighborhood was the Southwest Metro park and ride.
You know we’ve talked about this in the past as well so that came in. The 101 and Lyman commercial
development adjacent to our neighborhood, you know that’s still being in the works right now and that’s
growing as well. We’re seeing an awful lot of traffic related to that new development as well. The
Reflections neighborhood. You know we’ve added to our intersection at Springfield and Lyman, we’ve
added a fourth leg to that intersection. And a lot more traffic to that intersection and one more thing for
us to think about. You know looking across at Reflections and seeing what that traffic is doing from the
Reflections neighborhood as we’re trying to make our left turn and as Fred mentioned before, there is a
sight distance issue for traffic coming from the east on Lyman. That is a steep hill. You can’t see traffic
coming up, whether there’s snow there or there’s not snow there. It is an issue. Every day I have to look
several times that direction to make sure that there isn’t traffic approaching so I can make my left turn.
You know the proposed, as Fred mentioned the proposed 101 bridge over the Minnesota River so we’re
going to have 4 lane crossing of the river. We’ll have 4 lanes eventually you know up the bluff to 101.
Traffic’s going to double in the future. Significant changes to adjacent to our neighborhood. Something
else that will be coming up in the future will be you know eventually there will be some redevelopment
on the north side of Lyman to a higher density. Housing up in that area. That’s going to increase the
traffic in the area as well so, and now here we are talking about proposed removal of the barrier. I mean
can we, you know can we get to a point where, you know how many more times can we be impacted by
these significant traffic changes? You know these all need to happen. It’s development. That’s fine but
can we be protected a little bit because of the unique status of our neighborhood at this location. There
aren’t any other neighborhoods in Chanhassen that are seeing the traffic that we are seeing and it’s going
to grow in the future that our neighborhood is seeing. That’s my second point. A lot of these have been
covered already. The traffic concerns. Fred covered that very well. Safety concerns. That was covered
very well. Responses to the city pros and cons. That’s been covered. I would like to touch a little bit on
the agenda item here and a couple of the items in the agenda item. The point about the 85% traffic you
know traveling 28.4 miles per hour less. That’s been covered as well that the City says that that’s not a
speeding issue. It is a concern. 28.4 miles per hour is very fast going around that curve right in front of
my house. I mean it really is. I don’t know if I can drive 28.4 miles per hour safely around the curve so
that is a concern. I would like to think that we have a speeding issue and it’s not a speeding issue. If
indeed, you know I’ve heard a lot of questions from the council members about the traffic data and the
traffic projections and the assumptions being made and you know these are a concern to us and we’ve
done our own traffic study as Fred mentioned. You know if you are going to base your decision on some
of that traffic information, you know I think we may need some more detailed traffic study. I know that
they’ve done the best that they can with the data that they’ve been provided right now but if you’re purely
looking at traffic numbers I think we think that the number is actually probably going to be higher than
the number that has been provided so far. In closing I think that the comp plan states that residential
street systems should be designed to discourage cut through traffic. You know if we look at the definition
of cut through traffic, it’s traffic passing through a specific residential area without stopping or without at
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least one trip ending within the area. It is traffic that would be better served by the local street system
intended for traffic. For through traffic. This proposal meets the definition of a true cut through and we
think that traffic would be better served staying on 101 and Lyman. The street, you know 101. It’s a
highway. Lyman is a collector street so those streets are meant to hold traffic and honestly I don’t think
we would want to turn Springfield Drive into another Longacres Drive that is an example of something
that Springfield Drive could turn into. That’s dangerous and that’s really not acceptable and we would
like you to consider keeping the barrier in place. That’s all I have. Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Anyone else? Last call. Alright. Is there a motion to close the public
hearing?
Councilwoman Ernst: So moved.
Mayor Furlong: Is there a second?
Councilman Laufenburger: Second.
Mayor Furlong: Motion’s been made and seconded. Any discussion on the motion?
Councilwoman Ernst moved, Councilman Laufenburger seconded to close the public hearing. All
voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0. The public hearing was
closed.
Mayor Furlong: Let’s bring it to council then for follow up questions to staff or comments.
Councilwoman Ernst: Mayor?
Mayor Furlong: Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: Paul I want to talk a little bit about one of the comments that was made in terms of
emergency vehicles. So emergency vehicles can get through there today or can they not? Is it that they
have to knock the barricade to go down or do, onto that street? Or can they get around it or how does that
work?
Paul Oehme: Well the barricades are designed to be break away so any emergency vehicle can
theoretically knock the barricades down right now. The issue becomes when there’s snow plow, snow in
front of the barricades and other obstacles in front of the barricades where it becomes a little bit more
problematic so you know in emergency situations you know speed is a life saver sometimes so the
quicker emergency vehicles can get to a certain destination the better off everybody will be so that’s the
consideration that, why we have a pro in here of opening it up for emergency vehicle response.
Councilwoman Ernst: The reason I ask that question is because I drove that neighborhood today and
number one, I got lost because it’s such a maze in there. But number two, I was trying to figure out an
emergency vehicle going through that big drift where that barricade is. I have no idea how they would
even get through there. If there’s a way I’d sure like to know how because.
Paul Oehme: Right and that’s our point. I mean if the road is open then there’s no obstacle for an
emergency vehicle to get through there. You know when there’s a cul-de-sac it’s very difficult to, and if
there’s a barricade you know or a emergency vehicle needs to go, it’s very difficult to distribute the snow
away from that area so it’s, it’s more problematic in the wintertime then say in the summertime I suppose.
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Councilwoman Ernst: And I think of the buses going through there where they have to go in one and then
they have to come back around and go to the other neighborhood and it seems just, it seems not conducive
to the neighborhood and when I think about the time that it takes for these bus drivers to go through, and I
don’t think buses go that fast so I don’t think that, I mean maybe that would be part of the traffic increase
but I certainly I don’t see them going even 30 miles an hour through there. And as I was driving through
there and I take your word for it that you know there are probably some that go through there 30 miles an
hour, 28 miles an hour, whatever that is but as I was driving through there today I was, I felt 25 miles an
hour as I was going that speed was very adequate and I didn’t feel that I had to go any faster than that.
But I want to go back to my comment earlier that I made and even though a round about may not be a
solution, by the way I’m not trying to fix something that isn’t broken. I’m just, and as I talked to Chris
and I talked to Doug a week ago, or last week, you know one of the things that I always try to look
towards is can we find a win/win, a solution that will work not only for the residents but for the City and
it may not be 100% the ultimate decision that you’re looking for, but is there something that will work for
both sides. And I say that because we as City Council need to look not only for today but we need to look
at tomorrow and we know that eventually the kids in the neighborhood are going to grow up, although we
need to make sure that we’re not creating an unsafe environment over there for the children today. But
they do eventually grow up and neighborhoods change so it’s like we need to look not only for today but
tomorrow and as we think through this it’s, it’s a situation where we just need to come up with a solution
that works for everyone. I’m going to continue to ask questions as we go through this but thank you for
answering those.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Any other discussion? Questions? Comments? Mr. Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Just a question Mr. Mayor. Let’s see. I don’t want to be flippant about this
but has the homeowners association considering putting up any kind of fences around the play area by the
pool and park to prevent balls from going into the street? I think that’s a bit of a rhetorical question but
that’s something you might want to think about. Where was the traffic pattern done Mr. Oehme? Was it
done, yeah.
Mayor Furlong: Why don’t you bring up that slide.
Councilman Laufenburger: Can you bring that up?
Paul Oehme: Yeah, let me see if I can find it here. So one of the.
Councilman Laufenburger: Alright, and why did you choose that area?
Paul Oehme: The location here, it’s one of the, actually I think it’s closer to the south end of the park
than is shown here but typically when you take a traffic speed count you want an area that’s a little bit
wider open. You know good sight distances and as straight as you can get. That’s where you’re really
going to find out where they’re speeding or where the true speeds and volumes are going to be shown. So
that’s where we took the speed and traffic counts in the Springfield neighborhood. We also took speed
and traffic counts at the barricade this summer when the barricade was down as well so we have true you
know traffic numbers for just the Springfield neighborhood folks going in and out.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Alright. Also I heard a couple mention the grade on Springfield Drive
as it enters Lyman. Okay I’m assuming they’re talking about a northbound car that goes around that
median and they have to kind of ease their way out, alright. Does that, does the construction of that
entrance onto Lyman, does it meet our code? Is it acceptable according to our code?
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Paul Oehme: For sight distance, you know staff has not evaluated that intersection for sight distances on
Lyman exiting out into Springfield so that’s one of the points that I have documented that we should
definitely take a look at and see if there’s any improvements that can be made to that intersection as well.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay, and if there are improvements to be made could those improvements
include changing the elevation of the road?
Paul Oehme: It could. It could.
Councilman Laufenburger: It could.
Paul Oehme: Yeah so, and another point too is pedestrian movements at intersection. I’ve heard that
from several neighbors too. Now that Reflections is in there’s more pedestrian movements north to south
on Lyman too. We’re going to check that out.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Let’s see. One of the other, my last question and I’ll reserve
comments for later but are there pedestrian, let’s see there was a comment about people, I think one
woman said and I’m sorry that I don’t remember a specific name but there was discussion about a woman
who, or young girl who crosses the street to get on the bus. Mr. Oehme, I know you’re not a traffic
expert. Maybe Lieutenant Enevold can speak to this. Aren’t children instructed to stay on the side of the
street until the buses arrive and the crossing arm goes down? Are you familiar with that practice
Lieutenant?
Lt. Jeff Enevold: Normally they have a bus stop at a corner or a specific area and that’s where the
student’s supposed to go. That should be on the side…
Councilman Laufenburger: Oh okay. So it’s possible that a student may cross the street to get to that side
where the, okay. So is it possible Mr. Oehme that we could consider signs that say, and I don’t know. I
don’t think there’s a sign that says children at play. I bet the residents can help me understand that.
There’s not a sign, okay. Could we place a sign that says children at play for people who are approaching
that pool and park area? Or is it appropriate to put a flasher in place so that when somebody wants to
cross Springfield to get to the pool and park, is that a possibility? I suppose possibility.
Mayor Furlong: Anything’s possible.
Councilman Laufenburger: Anything’s possible. It’s just a question of whether or not it would be
effective or whether it’s needed.
Paul Oehme: Right, you know Minnesota, the State of Minnesota has discouraged Children at Play signs
because they’ve documented they are not effective. There are signs that are appropriate for park areas
that are helpful and that’s one of the things that we can consider too.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. That was all my questions. Thank you Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, thank you. Any other questions or comments? Mr. McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: I too have questions and I’ll reserve comment but when we get down to Kiowa
tell me about sidewalks. Is it possible to put them in? And if so why isn’t that part of the plan and if not,
why can’t they be put in?
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Paul Oehme: Sure. So let me bring up the map of the area real quick on Kiowa. So again Kiowa’s about
24 feet wide. There is some topographic challenges associated with putting sidewalks in. It is circuitous.
There’s a lot of landscaping along the corridor. There are steep driveways that would be impacted if we
put a sidewalk all the down on Kiowa Trail so taking into all those considerations it’d be very difficult to
put in a sidewalk in this situation and not create significant impacts to the properties.
Councilman McDonald: Okay. And then let me ask one other question. If we’re going to be doing all
the street improvements we’re looking at doing, would it be beneficial for the barrier to stay down during
that construction phase?
Paul Oehme: Absolutely. That was one of the discussion points too that we were looking at is, you know
if the barricade, if the council requests that the, determines that the barricade should be left open long
term, construction wise like we did with 101 we would request that the barricade be taken down
temporarily during construction just so there’s another access point for Kiowa residents to get ingress and
egress during the construction phase.
Councilman McDonald: Okay so if the council were to decide long term keep the barrier up, we could
still say short term the barrier needs to stay down until construction’s completed, and is that what you
would want?
Paul Oehme: Absolutely. And then the more access during construction area the better for us.
Councilman McDonald: Okay. That’s all the questions I have.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, thank you. Any other questions? Ms. Aanenson, just a question and comment
was made about the uniqueness of the neighborhood. With regard to the barrier, do we have that
anywhere else in town? Where we have streets in a line where the pavement is contiguous but there’s a
barrier?
Kate Aanenson: Not a barrier in place. A physical barrier like that. The only other one we talked about
was brought up is the Timberwood one.
Mayor Furlong: That’s the only one.
Kate Aanenson: But that was a ravine. Actually a creek that separated the two.
Mayor Furlong: There’s a creek inbetween.
Kate Aanenson: Correct. Yeah.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. But nowhere else in town do we have this situation?
Kate Aanenson: No. And I just want to say something else on that. We have a lot of streets not going
through that have been in place for a long time that will be connected. For example Ashling Meadows.
Another Lennar, at that time Lundgren project has a lot of stub streets that we mark, will be extended in
the future and because a lot of development happened in the 90’s, these streets have been there for 20-30
years and they will be connected. They have to as the property to the you know continuous so we do as
we come through we tell, try to advise people that the streets are going to go forward and that’s the only
way, it’s not, our job is to make the pieces of the puzzle work together and it’s a challenge. Not every
piece of property develops in sequence. Just as it is across the street from here, we have stub streets that
go to the north so it’s always a challenge trying to let somebody develop and provide that opportunity so
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sometimes streets do sit there for 20, 25 years before they’re connected. Just depending on when that
person, next person wants to develop.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Thoughts and comments. We have a proposed motion from the staff.
Somebody like to make a motion for discussion or if there are discussion, comments and thoughts. Mr.
Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Mayor. It’s late and I’m going to indulge the attendees in the
chambers here as well as those looking at home. The question is why take the barrier down and for me a
bigger question was, why did we put it up in the first place? You know public policy is that we connect
neighborhoods. As Ms. Aanenson has just said we don’t have a lot of streets in this community where
there’s a barrier preventing two streets that are physically built to one another but we can’t go through
them so why put it up? Well before I answer that question first I want to recognize the actions of those
that attended the meeting. The neighborhood meetings. With us tonight, either in chambers or at a home.
The neighbors that took time to meet with some of us at City Hall, including Eric’s dad. Chris and Matt
and Fred. I really do, more than 160 petition signers. A dozen or so phone callers and letter writers.
More than 3 dozen emailers and these are only the people with whom I’ve interacted. I really do
appreciate the interaction and your expression of concerns on this issue and your willingness to step up to
be heard. This process can be intimidating and thanks to all of you that did step forward. So let me make
my position clear from the outset and then I’ll do my best to support my conclusions. I wanted to know
why we put it up so I looked into it and I will tell you that I’m in favor of affirming and upholding the
action of the 1998 Nancy Mancino Mayor, City Council that put the temporary barricade in place in
accordance with the planned unit development contract with Lundgren Brothers, the developer.
Specifically it was put up to prevent construction traffic from entering the Springfield Addition,
development through the use of either Highway 101 or Kiowa Trail. I want to read excerpts from the
staff reports back in July 22, 1998. Development access to the city shall be limited, excuse me.
Development access to the site shall be limited to Lyman Boulevard, Springfield Drive, and/or Sunnyvale
Drive. Access to the site from Kiowa Trail and Trunk Highway 101 shall be prohibited. And the
development contract. During the construction of each phase temporary turn arounds shall be provided
on all dead end streets which are proposed to be extended. Barricades shall be placed at the end of the
temporary turn arounds with a sign indicating that quote, this street shall be extended in the future,
unquote. Item K on the contract. Back to back cul-de-sacs shall be provided at the Kiowa Trail
connection. The pavement for the northern cul-de-sac shall be installed to the project property line, which
is where it is right now. A break away barricade shall be installed to prohibit through traffic on Kiowa
Trail. The cul-de-sac shall be temporary until either area residents petition the City to open the
connection or Highway 212 is constructed at which time traffic patterns will be changed. I don’t know
the argument that was in place with the Nancy Mancino council back in 1998. I’m just reading that
clearly it states that it was temporary for purposes of not having construction traffic go through there.
Now, why put it up? To prevent construction traffic from using Kiowa Trail and 101 as access to
Springfield. Now that the develop is complete, the original purpose of the temporary barrier as stated in
the development contract is no longer valid and therefore I believe that we, the Chanhassen officials have
been delinquent in not upholding and completing the 1998 action by removing the barrier before this.
Now the arguments from the citizens both tonight, neighborhood meetings, letters and emails seem to be
as follows. Increased traffic leading to unsafe streets. Potential short cuts with people who would have
something other than abiding by the law in mind. Public safety, specifically that of the children and
families that play in their yards, driveways, park, by the pool and in the streets or the opening, or those
that are open to darting between cars as short cuts to their favorite destination. And home values. More
value on quiet, bucolic cul-de-sac than a busy thoroughfare. I will tell you I considered each of these with
your comments as well as the facts as they were presented. Increased traffic. Absolutely I agree. There
is a very strong likelihood that there will be more traffic on both Kiowa and Springfield Drive as a result
of completing the connection of the two streets. How much more? We don’t know. We can only
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anticipate. However I believe the facts indicate that the streets are designed and will be able to
accommodate a substantial increase in traffic even more than what traffic studies indicate. Now as to the
concern that this would be an active short cut, I do not concur. I think Ms. Anderson this evening made a
very good point. Some may regard traveling on a house lined street with multiple curves and potential
cars parked on the road, perhaps subject to school bus stopping arms impeding traffic flow. Some may
view that as a short cut but I don’t believe the majority of the drivers in the Reflections, Lakeside and
North Bay area that need to travel south towards Pioneer Trail or Highway 61 will give up the higher
speed, wider lanes and assured free flow of traffic they would encounter on Lyman Boulevard and
Highway 101. Point number two, public safety. Like all of you I am very concerned about public safety
of the citizens of Chanhassen. Both young and old alike. Unfortunately however I don’t believe public
safety is something that you can legislate. Public safety results from judicious diligence on the part of
many entities including police, fire, emergency services departments, schools, ordinances, neighborhood
lighting, clean neighborhoods, patterns of neighborhood behavior connecting with other neighbors as
Doug has done for the last 11 plus years. And yes, much more. Including that parents instruct their
children early and often in life through training about safe behavior including the consequences of not
being safe when playing outside, unattended by parents or adults. I believe the decision to either open a
street as a through street or build a new fire station or widen a collector street in itself is neither good or
bad for public safety. It’s the actions that people demonstrate in response to the changes which will make
for safe and unsafe communities, neighborhoods and citizens. C. Home values. Thank you for your
comments Mr. Heilicher. I assume that this specifically relates to the value of your home when you
choose to sell it because most people realize that the value of your home for property tax purposes would
be better to be lower rather than higher unless you desire to pay a disproportionately higher share of
property tax. So as far as selling your home this is a hard one to accurately predict as well. Even realtors
can’t give you a precise number. They can only give you a range until that time when one family or
individual comes forward with an offer to buy. I had first hand experience with this having just gone
through the process of selling our home in a development south of Highway 5 not far from Springfield
and Kiowa neighborhoods. I believe there is consideration to be given to the cul-de-sac or protected area
versus the street. However as imprecise as that percentage I know from experience the cleanliness of the
house, current amenities, refreshed landscaping, visible improvements, bath, bedroom, proximity to
acceptable transportation corridors and community amenities, shopping, parks, trees, buyer’s points
you’re willing to pay and yes, painted front door add up to much more significant impact on the selling
price. In my view what this boils down to for both neighborhoods and Mr. Sohrweide mentioned this is
that we are sensitive to change. We are creatures of habit. Change. Nobody likes a rocking boat. I don’t
like it. When our family bought a home in Eden Prairie 35 years ago we were told by the realtor that we
had a beautiful, unencumbered view of the Minnesota River valley. It was true for about 5 years and then
we had an unencumbered view of 20 homes built in the home just south of us. These homes filled with
wonderful neighbors, some of whom we connect with today. We didn’t like that Eden Prairie and Orrin
Thompson rocked our boat. Mayor, council members and citizens what I’ve heard and considered does
not compel me to, what I’ve heard and considered in the last 4 months does not compel me to reverse the
action that was intended and made perfectly clear by the 1998 City Council. What is clear to me is that
we’ve been negligent and delinquent by not completing this action before today such as in 2000 when the
development was complete or in 2007 when 212 was complete. I think we should not delay this action,
this change any further. I encourage the permanent removal of the barrier at this time and I will support
the action of this council. Thank you Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you Mr. Laufenburger. Other comments. Discussion. Mr. McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: No, I have no comments. I was looking to do a motion.
Mayor Furlong: I’d be happy to entertain a motion.
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Councilman McDonald: What I would like to do Mr. Mayor is split this into two questions. Vote on the
street improvements for Kiowa Trail and then to address the issue of the barrier as a separate motion and
as part of that I would like that broken into two parts. A vote on a permanent solution and a vote on a
temporary solution which would put, take the barrier out until road construction is completed.
Mayor Furlong: I mean we can make any motions we want. I guess I’m trying to understand, maybe
explain what your thoughts are and then we can.
Councilman McDonald: Well I guess what my thoughts are on all of this is I see two very distinct issues
and I concur with what Councilmember Laufenburger has said. I was unaware of the 1998. I knew about
the thing going back but the fact that a council had, you know it was only temporary, that’s kind of been
lost in translation I think. I guess I look upon this as right now where I’m sitting is that again these are
very tough decisions. What I’m really struggling with is two things. I support the whole thing about the
comp plan about that we should interconnect neighborhoods. I voted for that in the past. I have been in
the minority when I did but I have voted for that in the past because I do believe in it and I do believe that
you know if you don’t try to follow your comp plan, why even have it. We went through a great process
to do the comp plan. That’s not to say you can’t change it but to come up and, I have problems with those
comments. I do want to thank Mr. Souza for the fact that he did put some effort into doing this. We had
a very civil conversation. I really appreciate that because usually that’s not what happens but what I
guess I’m trying to get at is that right now where I am probably leaning in all of this is to agree that
because of the dissimilarity between the neighborhoods and the roads, I would vote to keep the barrier in
place. If we continue with the current motion the way it is, I will vote against the street improvements for
Kiowa Trail which Kiowa Trail seems to want but if it’s all part of one package, I’m sorry. You won’t
get your road fixed. That could mean another 20 years believe me so that’s why I would like to separate
them. If I don’t get a second, you’ve kind of heard how I intend to vote.
Mayor Furlong: Alright. Other thoughts or comments? Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: Well you know.
Mayor Furlong: I’m sorry.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: I’m sorry, point of order. Are we going to vote on the motion that was made
first or?
Mayor Furlong: Well I didn’t hear a motion. It was discussion.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Did you make a motion?
Councilman McDonald: Yeah I made a motion. I guess I’m waiting for a second.
Councilwoman Ernst: Oh I didn’t hear a motion.
Mayor Furlong: I didn’t realize it was a motion. I’m sorry.
Councilman McDonald: Okay I’m sorry. I said I wanted to split this into two questions and I would
make a motion.
Mayor Furlong: You would make a motion to split it into two questions.
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Councilman McDonald: Into two questions and the one on the barrier I would like to see that be both a
permanent solution and a temporary to accommodate road construction.
Mayor Furlong: Alright. So motion’s been made to split the issue into two motions. One relating to
street improvements, one relating to the barrier. Is there a second to that?
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Second.
Mayor Furlong: Alright. Yep. Mr. Knutson.
Roger Knutson: As you know to order the project takes 4 votes.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Roger Knutson: Positive votes. If you split it up and I don’t know how anyone’s going to vote but if you
split it up and you get 4 votes to order the project, and say 3 votes to close or leave open, I think you
could, then is the project ordered?
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Roger Knutson: What project is ordered?
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright. So it’s your opinion that we should keep it together? Gentlemen,
ladies, please. We’re having a discussion here. Please sit down. Mr. Knutson.
Roger Knutson: What project are you ordering? If you, if the initial vote is to order the project.
Councilman McDonald: The project that’s in question is the street improvement project. That’s the one
where we redo Kiowa Trail which is the first part of the presentation. The second part deals with the
barrier.
Roger Knutson: So you’d separate it into two pieces. One.
Councilman McDonald: Two pieces. Not necessarily two projects but you’re right. The project is part of
what I’m saying that on a temporary basis we may want to take the barrier down for construction reasons
and I think we should have that option to do so. That’s what I mean by splitting it. The first question
would be, are we going to do the street improvements to Kiowa Trail or not? That’s a yes/no vote. Then
the second question is the barrier. Are we going to on a permanent basis take it down or leave it up? That
would depend upon the vote. If it is agreed to take it down you don’t need to do the second part of my
vote which would be a temporary taking down of the barrier during the construction of Kiowa Trail.
Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Mr. McDonald, or Mr. Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: We have a motion and a second so.
Mayor Furlong: And we’re discussing the splitting.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Alright. I believe that Mr. McDonald that it is possible to deal with
this as a single motion if the motion is made to include a description of how you want the barrier portion
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of the project to be handled. So I think that I’m not in support of splitting it. I think the motion can be
made in such a way that it’s clear definition and clear direction to staff as to how the project is to be
ordered.
Mayor Furlong: I would agree because earlier the question was, are we going to know and I think the
answer is everybody that’s voting and everybody’s that’s watching needs to know. The project clearly is
street improvements and how, whether or not a barrier remains as part of the street improvements. That’s
the question in front of the council and I think a motion can be made to make the street improvements.
Keep the barrier. Make the street improvements. Remove the barrier. That is clearly part of the scope of
the project so I think keeping it together makes more sense and is cleaner on the issue.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Furlong: Councilwoman Tjornhom.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Earlier in the meeting when the meeting began I thought, I thought we had
this discussion about what directions we could go with this. Whether it would be to do separate motions
or not and I thought at that point it was clarified that we could do two separate motions.
Mayor Furlong: I guess I don’t recall but.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Okay. That’s what I had recalled the discussion…happened and so I
personally would like to have two separate motions. I don’t want to put the kibosh on this project.
Everyone in this room agrees that the project should go through. It’s just what’s going to happen with
that project. What comes along with it.
Mayor Furlong: But, okay.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: And so if.
Mayor Furlong: And here’s part of it. With the project, and the reason I think we should keep the motion
together as a single motion. We’re asking the residents along Kiowa to pick up 40% of the street
improvements and we’re asking the residents in the entire city to pick up 60% of the street improvements
and pick up the stormwater improvements and pick up the other improvements. Okay? The
improvement to the watermain is fully assessed. To ask, and one of the questions came up earlier. I think
it was, it might have been Mr. Souza that asked, you know talked about constituents. Who are our
constituents? We all know our constituents are the 24,000 residents of Chanhassen. They include the
hundreds of people who live within these two neighborhoods but those are our constituents and to ask
them to pay for projects that then as part of that project doesn’t allow them to use the road, I have trouble
with that. And I have trouble saying that we need to fix this road up because everybody agrees to fix it
but don’t let anybody else drive on it. I’ve got trouble with that and that’s why as we talk about whether
we should split this motion or not, I look at the improvements and say the improvements are part and
partial to who is going to use that road. All the residents along Kiowa will use it as they currently do.
Some of the residents of Springfield will probably use it. Some of the residents of the neighborhoods to
the north of Lyman will probably use it. All of those are residents of Chanhassen and all of them are
paying for part of this road, and in fact all of the streets that we’re talking about, whether it’s Kiowa,
Springfield Drive, all the roads in, are owned and maintained by the public. They’re public streets. All
our residents own and maintain those roads and I fully understand the preferences, the personal
preferences of the residents who spoke and dealt with this issue as far as you know why change it? It’s
working. For whom? It’s working for them. It’s working for us and I understand that and appreciate that
but these are still public roads. One of the comments that came out in the comment cards and the
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petitions that came through, and this wasn’t prevalent but it hit me when it said we need to keep
Springfield private. You know these are not private neighborhoods. They’re not private streets. They’re
private roads. Or excuse me, public roads and therefore they should be available to the public and that’s
why, and Mr. McDonald I understand your thought process here of trying to split these. I think it should
be a single motion and I think that motion should be to make the improvements. They’re needed.
They’re absolutely justified and they make sense and part of those improvements are to take the barrier
down and to make these public roads available to the public. We can debate all night whether or not and
how much cut through traffic will occur but let’s talk about that for a second too because the plans, the
Comprehensive Plans, everybody talk about reducing cut through traffic. Not preventing it. One of my
questions to Ms. Aanenson was where else in the city do we have this situation and the answer came back
nowhere so why is this, why are these public roads not available to the public? But everywhere else they
are. That’s where I’m looking at this. We have connected neighborhoods regularly. We look at every
one and the specific conditions but here it’s a situation, as Mr. Laufenburger talked about. You know we
talk about temporary barriers in this case and I remember when I went to the University of Minnesota and
now I’m going to date myself, in the early 80’s we had temporary buildings north of a particular hall that
had been there since World War II so temporary can be a long time. I understand that and temporary in
this case has been a long time and if Mr. Laufenburger, I tend to agree with you a little bit that the City
has been negligent or derelict I think was your word.
Councilman Laufenburger: Delinquent is the word that I used.
Mayor Furlong: Delinquent. It’s late. And yeah we probably have and I remember a conversation Mr.
Gerhardt you and I had a few years ago talking about this specific issue on this barrier knowing full well
that the condition of approval to the Springfield neighborhood, which was there for all the Springfield
residents to know was that this barrier was temporary. That it was coming down when 212 opened up.
We specifically talked about that and said we’re trying to get 101 upgraded and so let’s do it at that time.
And the timing works out now, why are we here? Because we’re looking at improvements to Kiowa to
that public road with 101 now improved and we can debate and I know Mr. Souza we talked about which
way people will go but the idea is not to prevent anyone from driving on a public road which is what this
barrier does. It’s to reduce cut through traffic. When we look at other neighborhoods across the city we
can’t find any other situation and precedence. Sure, let’s just start blocking off roads. Let’s just start
putting barriers up because that neighborhood will want that. And they’re public roads. They’re
available for it. When I look around at other cities, and I know some of the examples where around
Minneapolis with the lakes and I know other suburbs put up barriers. In fact we’ve got one nearby here
around one of the lakes where you have a road that’s just cut off. People can’t use it. Christmas Lake is a
classic example with Ridge Road and Christmas Lake Lane where it’s been, where the City just literally
just took the road out. Now you can’t use it there. Only if you live along there can you use it. That’s not
what public roads are for. That’s not what building community is for. That’s not what proper planning is
for. When we look at this map, can we pull up the map, that aerial map? Back out just a little bit so we
can see the whole thing. Unless somebody knows exactly where that barrier is in that picture, nobody
would expect that there’s a barrier that blocks two roads. It just doesn’t make sense and if we looked at
the rest of our city we wouldn’t see that situation and I would argue, and I think it goes back to Ms.
Aanenson’s comments are timing of when projects are developed. If this entire, if Kiowa and the
Springfield neighborhood were all developed at the same time, there would not have been a barrier there.
So you know I understand your thoughts a little bit but I would encourage you to say no, part of this
project is the opening of the streets to the public. That’s part of the project. It’s time. It’s time to move
forward with what was originally planned when Springfield neighborhood was developed. 101 has been
improved. 212 is there. 101 is a, is going to handle plenty of traffic. Might there be some people that
will drive through? Sure but we’re not talking about traffic volumes that are unsafe. An additional 100
cars. 200 cars a day. I mean you know 200 cars a day, what’s that? One every 5 minutes. This is not an
unsafe situation. Is it change? Absolutely and I understand that and when, you know for Mr. Souza and
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his neighbors who have been sitting there within a lot or two of the barrier where nobody comes by or
they come by and they go back the other way. Absolutely it’s change and they saw a lot of it this summer
when the entire Kiowa residents were coming north. But you know it’s time. It’s time. So Mr.
McDonald I understand your thought process. I would encourage you to think about it though and say
you know, this is the time for proper public policy that provides for the common good and recognize that
these are public streets available to all the people that live, whether they live in Springfield or along
Kiowa to the north. I mean even look at where’s there going to be anything other than people to the north
of Lyman and Chanhassen, there’d be no reason for anyone to drive through this neighborhood. They’re
Chanhassen residents. They’re paying for part of the streets. Just like they do in my neighborhood and
everybody else’s neighborhood.
Councilman McDonald: Well I guess Mr. Mayor, I mean I’m willing to withdraw my motion but I would
like to have a choice on the barrier. If what you’re saying is that we need to address this within the
motion and that it’s time for it to come down, if I continue to disagree with you I will vote against the
street improvements because I will have no other choice.
Mayor Furlong: I understand.
Councilman McDonald: And I guess all I’m trying to do is to put a choice out there that one thing
doesn’t end up penalizing for another. I do agree that the street improvements are needed and I think it is
a real disservice to vote against it but I feel that that’s the position I’m put into and that’s why I put the
motion together that yeah, what we ought to do is choose, we ought to have a choice between the two
because it does have significant impact as you have elaborately stated.
Mayor Furlong: And Mr. McDonald in fairness to the residents I might be approached different from the
opposite side. Should we be making these improvements and spending public dollars, yes I know there
are assessments going to the residents but spending public dollars of these improvements without
knowing whether or not the public will be able to benefit from those improvements. So to me how, it’s
difficult for me to think about, I agree. The street improvements need to be made and the barrier needs to
come down permanently. That to me makes sense for reasons I’ve stated. There may be disagreements
on that but keeping it clean I think is a better approach than the back and forth and not knowing what,
what the result of one might be while we’re asked to decide on part of the project. We’re asked to decide
on part first without knowing what the second part will be.
Councilman McDonald: Well I guess I don’t see it that way.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Councilman McDonald: I mean the street improvement to me could stand alone. You know we could do
that whether the barrier is there or not. Then the question of the barrier comes to two things. I mean I’ve
been convinced tonight that there is a place for it on a temporary basis when we do road construction that
it does need to be down. In order to facilitate and make that work the way it should, that barrier should be
down but does that mean long term it should stay down? That’s why I think there’s two separate
questions there.
Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Furlong: Yeah, Mr. Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Yeah. Councilman McDonald and council members, I appreciate the
dilemma that you’re faced with, that you would like to see the project go forward but you disagree with
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this portion and we have many examples in City Council where the spirit of what needs to be done is
agreed upon but the details of which is not agreed upon and council members have the ability to vote nay
on the total project because they don’t believe in that one little piece. I’ve had personal examples where
that’s, where I’ve done that so it’s not inappropriate for you to be given a choice. Do I vote for it or do I
vote against it based on that little piece? I think that’s your prerogative. I do want to apologize to Mr.
Brama. I incorrectly identified you as Mr. Heilicher so please forgive me on that. I try to be more precise
with that so, and welcome to the community by the way since August. But Mr. Mayor I am, I firmly
believe that what I said earlier is that I believe that this can be dealt with in the form a motion that
stipulates exactly what the construction project includes, whether the barrier is in it or not in it and we can
vote on that.
Councilman McDonald: I would defer to that so I would withdraw my motion.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, thank you. So we’re still up. Would you like to, would somebody like to make
a motion so we can discuss it? Councilwoman Tjornhom.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: I haven’t made my comments yet. Do I? Are we going to first make the
motion and then go back to comments?
Mayor Furlong: No, if you’d like to make some comments you’d be happy, please.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Okay, just so everyone understands.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, that’s fine.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: It’s 11:45 so I’m going to be very brief but abrupt I think. As a City Council
person I always approach this role as two fold. I’m to use common sense and then I’m also to use what
my gut tells me and I’m to uphold our ordinances and make decisions to the best of my abilities. That’s
what my oath, that’s what I took last year once again and to the best of my abilities I also have to
represent you and while I understand the Mayor’s point about it’s a public road and people should be
allowed to drive on it, no one’s stopping them from driving on it. There’s no sign that’s going to say
please don’t enter if you’re not a resident of Kiowa or Springfield. But what I am approaching this as is I
am still protecting your community and what you’ve built in your neighborhood. When I have 100% of
the neighbors saying we don’t want this, at some point I have to listen to that. The comp plan has been
worked through and it’s a living document and it’s a living document for one reason because that means
we can change it or we can go ahead and proceed with what we thought at the time that comp plan and the
thoughts we had with that comp plan made sense. I totally agree that neighborhoods should be connected,
although I always have struggles as a council person with this because I do feel that I represent you first.
And so this is an overwhelming majority of people telling me that they don’t want the barrier and it’s not
because they don’t want to be neighbors. It’s not because they don’t want to be connected. It’s just that
they don’t want an extra 200 cars going through their neighborhood everyday or more, and I understand
that. This is kind of a neighborhood that’s landlocked and so I don’t see where it’s going to be
connecting to any other neighborhoods so it really is this little parcel right here and that’s what we’re
talking about and so who am I going to represent? Am I going to represent you, the neighbors that live
there or am I going to represent those people that want to cut through to miss a light or make a quicker
trip somewhere? I hate to disagree with my other council members but I just tonight I feel very
compelled to agree with my thoughts and my gut and that is to keep the barrier up and so I’m sorry but I
might have to vote this project down.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Any other comments or would somebody like to make a motion?
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Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Mayor, just clarification if I can.
Councilwoman Ernst: Mr. Mayor?
Councilman Laufenburger: Councilman McDonald withdrew his motion. Do we need to have a
withdrawal of the second as well?
Mayor Furlong: Probably or no. Unless there’s any objection to that?
Councilwoman Tjornhom: No.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay.
Mayor Furlong: I’ll consider the motion withdrawn without objection. Mr. Laufenburger, okay.
Councilman Laufenburger: I’d like to.
Mayor Furlong: Did you have a comment or?
Councilwoman Ernst: Yeah I just have a quick comment.
Mayor Furlong: Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: And you know I’m going to keep it very brief because everything that I was going
to say has been said. I just want to say that you know I appreciate everybody coming forward and I
appreciate meeting with Chris and Doug and all your coming here tonight but I, and you know
Councilwoman Tjornhom touched on the idea that she really needs to hear your thoughts. She’s here to
represent you and you know what, we are here to represent the entire city of Chanhassen and I want to go
back to the Mayor’s comments when he said that if we vote this project separately, which we’re not going
to do but when we think of the roads for example, there are all of our taxpayers pay for those roads and so
if we’re going to do construction on a road, it needs to be accessible to all of our residents and so with
that I mean I really, I empathize with what you want but we can’t make it a private neighborhood and it
was intended to be a temporary barrier in the beginning and so unfortunately it didn’t end up being so
temporary so here we are in this situation today but I’m going to support the project.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Mr. Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: I’d like to make a motion.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Councilman Laufenburger: I move that the Chanhassen City Council approve a resolution ordering
improvements for the 2014 Street Reconstruction Kiowa Trail area, Project 14-01 as stipulated in the staff
report. Acceptable?
Roger Knutson: Yes. To my understanding that would mean the barrier would be removed.
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Councilman Laufenburger: In accordance with the staff recommendation the barrier would come down.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. I’m sorry, is there a second?
Councilwoman Ernst: Yes I second it.
Mayor Furlong: Motion’s been made and seconded. Let’s discuss this. Thoughts and comments. Mr.
Laufenburger, maker of the motion.
Councilman Laufenburger: Yeah. Councilmembers McDonald and Tjornhom, if we took a poll of all of
the citizens of Chanhassen asking them if they would agree with raising taxes, raising property taxes I
believe, I believe the majority of the citizens of Chanhassen would overwhelmingly say no. Don’t raise
our property taxes. Yet every year we make a decision based on what is needed for the entire community
and we make that decision for the entire community and often times we make a decision that doesn’t
satisfy a group of people. This decision is in accordance with our public policy. It’s in accordance with
the action stipulated in 1998 by the Mancino City Council that stipulated that this was a temporary barrier
and frankly we’ve allowed the temporariness to infiltrate into the passionate culture of both of these
neighborhoods and it doesn’t make it right. It makes it comfortable but it doesn’t make it right.
Mayor Furlong: Other discussion? Comments. Mr. Oehme, if this motion were to go forward could we
take the barrier up there until construction started?
Paul Oehme: Yes. We would leave the barricade up until.
Mayor Furlong: The barricade. There’d be no reason to remove it any earlier than the construction
project itself.
Paul Oehme: No. Unless council directs us to remove it earlier but the plan would be to remove it with,
in conjunction with the street project.
Mayor Furlong: With the start of the street project which would be completed some time around Labor
Day.
Paul Oehme: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: At that point and then it just wouldn’t go back up based on this motion.
Paul Oehme: Absolutely.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. I mean I would encourage, and I, Councilwoman Tjornhom I fully appreciate
your thoughts and comments and understanding and trying to make sure that what we do doesn’t
negatively affect people which are most affected by the project, and I understand that and try to do that
and we’ve talked about looking at ways to address the concerns of the traffic and the speed. The issue
that was brought up by the one woman, I don’t have her name in front of me with the children. Talking
about the park. You know if the concern is visibility around the park and children playing around the
park with cars on the road, you know what can we do to address that concern? If the concern is speed
through the area, we’ve talked before about and some ideas have been raised about how can you calm
traffic. I think generally a lot of those may sound good but functionally and practically don’t, don’t work.
I think that you know whether it’s extending the sidewalk south of Springfield Drive along the west side
of Kiowa in order to help with the pedestrian traffic, which was brought up as a concern as well, certainly
something that we can consider and look at so I think there are some other ways to address the concerns
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that were raised. If those concerns are, and I believe they are, recognize hey. Here’s how this change will
affect us. So how do we address those affects and I think there are some ways to do that. Now I would
certainly tonight at this hour is not the time to pick and choose those. I think those are something that can
be done with the city staff and the neighborhood association, especially in Springfield to talk about some
of those. It’s got to work for them because they’re the ones raising the concern so let’s find something
that’s a positive solution but I think as far as moving the project forward on a street that needs to be
improved and then doing what should have been done a long time ago, we’re taking the political heat for
it if this motion goes through from these residents and I understand that but sometimes that’s for the good
of the community and for the good of all. That’s what we need to do in my opinion so I think there are
some ways to address the concerns that were raised and valid, raised with all sincerity and you know how
can we look at that and city staff does an excellent job of working with residents to try to accommodate
that. So I think we should move forward with this motion. I think we should move forward with the
project. Project needs to be done. The street needs to be available for through traffic and like every other
neighborhood in our city is or eventually will be when the property to the east and west or north, south
next door start to develop so I would encourage support for this motion. But I’m open to other thoughts
and comments.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Furlong: Sure. Or ideas.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Yes. I would like to then address perhaps tabling this and still working with
the residents and addressing all those issues that you just discussed so they do feel like there has been
some progress in A, either controlling the speeds. B, still addressing the traffic concerns or C, just
making sure that we really have worked hard enough to make sure that the best solution was possible. I
don’t want to kill this project. Trust me.
Mayor Furlong: No, I understand.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: I hate this but I also feel strongly that this is our community and this is our
neighborhood and you know they elected me to represent them and fight for them.
Mayor Furlong: Yep, no. And all of us, yep. Absolutely. Mr. McDonald, your thoughts?
Councilman McDonald: Mr. Mayor I mean what this all comes down to is again I’m just listening to the
neighborhood. I mean a lot of what’s been said here tonight I agree with a lot of what you said but again
what it kind of comes down to is, it’s what does the neighborhood want and I think we have listened to
neighborhoods in the past. I mean this isn’t a street project where we have problems and we disagree
with you know moving a street project forward. It’s the barrier that I have the problem with but all I’m
doing is, I’ve listened to what the residents have had to say. I am not in favor of private communities but
again whether this should have been done 20 years ago or not, it wasn’t and what we’ve created were
again two separate neighborhoods and I think that’s the reality and that’s all I’m trying to deal with and
again if I vote against this I’m sorry but you can’t have it both ways. You either want your streets and the
barrier comes down and you’re part of two neighborhoods or you want the barrier up and what I’m
hearing is you want the barrier up so that’s why I will vote the way I do.
Mayor Furlong: Well let me make this suggestion because we’ve got some different situations.
Councilwoman Tjornhom you say let’s talk and get some of those in place. A lot of, we’ve heard
concerns on both sides but some of the issues that we’ve been talking about in the Springfield
neighborhood, I think we need to, you know Springfield has an association board, am I correct about that?
You know I think we need to make a decision on it. Do we need to make it tonight? No, but I think we
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probably need to bring it and deal with it from the schedule that Mr. Oehme has laid out for us by our
next meeting. Or certainly the last meeting in February, correct?
Paul Oehme: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: So that does give us some time and I’d say if we have time let’s use the time to see what
we can accomplish and to make sure that no stone is unturned and that we look for ways, and I guess from
the comments that I’ve heard here is, let’s see what might be available or what could be done to move the
Kiowa street project forward, which the Kiowa residents want. And to Mr. McDonald’s point, you know
in a way that we can get enough support to get the improvements that they want. So we may be back here
in 2 weeks or 4 weeks without any changes but then at least we’ll know what efforts were taken and staff
can report back. And Mr. Gerhardt, you understand the discussion here or any thoughts or questions or
clarification you’re looking for?
Todd Gerhardt: Yeah. I think legal counsel would advise you to pick a date, either 2 weeks or 4 weeks.
Mayor Furlong: Alright. Do we think that 2 weeks would give us sufficient time to have and probably
going to be, I mean we’re dealing with a number of different property owners and different opinions and
different motivations on the issue so do you think we could put something together and bring it back
within a 2 week time period or do you think we need the last meeting in February?
Paul Oehme: From a timing standpoint I guess.
Todd Gerhardt: We closed the public hearing so we can continue it. You’ve just got to pick a specific
date.
Roger Knutson: 2 or 4.
Mayor Furlong: 2 or 4.
Paul Oehme: Yeah, 2 or 4. I mean I.
Mayor Furlong: With the idea, this would be almost what I’m envisioning and Councilwoman Tjornhom,
you’ve raised the idea of it but almost a neighborhood meeting or meeting with you know to the extent to
say okay, what might be available?
Todd Gerhardt: I think the 4 weeks would probably…
Mayor Furlong: Alright. So what is the date of our February meeting?
th
Paul Oehme: The 24 I think.
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Todd Gerhardt: It’s the 24.
Mayor Furlong: So Councilwoman Tjornhom do you want to make a motion to table this until our
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February 24 meeting, is that correct?
Todd Gerhardt: One sec.
Councilwoman Ernst: Well we have a motion and a second on the floor.
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Mayor Furlong: Right.
Councilman McDonald: And so the question is tabled.
Mayor Furlong: What Councilwoman Tjornhom is suggesting is that we table that motion and then at our
meeting, if I understand this correctly Mr. Knutson, when this item comes up we would bring it right back
to the point where we have a motion and a second on the floor. We’d be right back at where we are right
now so we don’t need a new motion, unless a new motion is desired but what it would do, to
Councilwoman Tjornhom’s point is give staff time to work with the residents in both neighborhoods to
see, to discuss what other options might be available to address some of their safety concerns if that
barrier were to be removed permanently.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: And may I just add one point?
Mayor Furlong: Certainly.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: I would hope that the residents would be willing to work with staff also when
it comes to this issue. There’s not going to be a black and white answer to this but it’s giving everyone
one more chance to get it right somehow so that’s what I would ask that if we do this, that everyone
works together and comes up with a viable solution.
Mayor Furlong: Mr. McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: And if I could, if we could hold any of those meetings here at City Hall so that
we don’t have ad hoc meetings with individual councilors.
Mayor Furlong: Yeah I would, I would, as far as I believe is what the purpose of this motion to table
that’s being suggested, it hasn’t been made yet. We’re really debating the motion made by Councilman
Laufenburger. Would be to, to give staff time to meet with some of the residents. Talk about some of the
other options that have been raised this evening. At other meetings such like that in order to have more
information for the council to consider at our meeting in February. And again obviously everybody here
and watching at home and that reads the newspaper on Thursday will have some sense of what’s going
on.
Councilman McDonald: Well I guess what I’m asking is, I would like for council to be able to attend
those meetings and we have a problem with the open meeting law. That’s why I’m saying the meeting
should be here and at this point we shouldn’t be doing these individual meetings.
Todd Gerhardt: We would probably set it up as a neighborhood meeting and then advertise it as a
potential public meeting if 2 or more council members would show up.
Mayor Furlong: In case 3 or more.
Todd Gerhardt: 3 of them.
Mayor Furlong: So it would be a published meeting but it would be my thought is that the reason here,
and what Councilwoman Tjornhom I heard suggested is, you know give the city staff and the residents
time to look at some options. Come up with some ideas and there may be you know, see what happens.
Give it, try some more.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Yes.
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Mayor Furlong: And that’s what I hear you suggesting.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: That’s all I’m saying.
Mayor Furlong: Have staff and the residents work together. Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: So Paul, based on what you said earlier it sounds like there are already some
options out there that are potential possibilities that you can work with the residents on.
Paul Oehme: Yes. We’ve discussed a few of them at the meeting tonight and I think there’s several other
ones we can consider as well so we’ll throw them out and see if anything works.
Mayor Furlong: And for the residents here as well, the sky’s not the limit. I mean if the idea that came
back from the neighborhood is to say we want speed bumps every 20 feet, you’re not going to get my
support for anything like that either so, and I’m just letting you know and trying to get it out there so it’s
clear, and I don’t know if anybody else would support that or not.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Absolutely.
Mayor Furlong: I tried to use an extreme to be clear that what we’re trying to do here is, what are the
normal practices that this city has in all our other neighborhoods that may help with the concerns that
have been raised in these neighborhoods if that barrier were not to be there permanently.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Yep, that’s all I’m asking.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Audience: Mr. Mayor, it might help if you gave us a list that so we knew what to pick from…
Mayor Furlong: Well I don’t think it’s, you know, no. I think the way best to do this that has worked
very successfully in the past is for city staff to hold an open house. Public meeting and to talk about it
outside of the formal process of a council meeting and when you say what we can pick from, well again
just so you understand ultimately it’s not, well the neighborhood says we want these 5 things. Well you
may not get enough votes up here to support all those 5 things so I think the approach.
Audience: …solution that was completely off the table.
Mayor Furlong: I think what has been suggested here and what I’m thinking makes some sense at this
time is to give Mr. Oehme and Mr. Gerhardt and Ms. Aanenson and anyone else on city staff that it makes
sense for Mr. Gerhardt and Paul to get involved and talk about you know, what are some reasonable
things that we already do in other areas because there are some things that other cities do that just isn’t
part of the fabric of Chanhassen and so I don’t, you know running around to find out what Boston does
for something probably isn’t going to work here. Sorry… Was it Boston? Okay. Alright. I reserve the
right to revise my remarks. Taking Boston out. Use it as an example, not as a dig Fred. I appreciate your
help. So Boston is a great town. Awesome town. Yes.
Councilman Laufenburger: Interesting that you would make reference to Boston using the term dig.
Mayor Furlong: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Audience: I do appreciate your time here. Just a quick clarification question. Understand that a motion
has been made and a second to that motion has been made. When you reconvene does that motion not
have to be voted on as is or is there an adaptation to the motion? Is there a second motion? …something
different than you’re asking us to try to come up with.
Mayor Furlong: No, and understand. I’m not asking the residents to come up with anything. What was
suggested by Councilwoman Tjornhom is to give city staff time to feel out and to consider other
suggestions, ideas and what might or might not work. In the end when we come back, if this goes
forward. If the motion to table to the second meeting in February is approved city staff is going to come
back and we’re going to, the first question is going to be give us an update of what transpired between
now and then. But as far as from a council process standpoint, and Mr. Knutson tell me if there is
anything different, if we’re tabling this motion we’re coming back right to this point.
Roger Knutson: That’s correct.
Mayor Furlong: So with a motion on the table. Or a motion on the floor with a second that we are
discussing and the discussion is, I mean the effect of this is, Councilwoman Tjornhom is saying I need
more information before I can vote from this. I need more time for the staff to work and get some more
information on what might be possible. Okay. So would you like to make that motion Councilwoman
Tjornhom?
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Yes Mr. Mayor I’d like to make a motion that we table.
Mayor Furlong: We table this motion.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: We table yes. Yes.
Mayor Furlong: This item. The motion until our.
thth
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Until February 24. Our meeting on February 24.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Councilman McDonald: I’ll second.
Mayor Furlong: Motion’s been made and seconded to table. Motion to table is not discussable.
Councilwoman Tjornhom moved, Councilman McDonald seconded to table the motion on the floor
to February 24, 2014. All voted in favor, except Councilman Laufenburger who opposed and the
motion carried with a vote of 4 to 1.
Mayor Furlong: So with that this item is complete for the evening. Let’s move on to the last items under
our agenda this evening. If you are leaving right now I ask that you leave quietly so we can keep going
and thank you everybody for your involvement. That completes our items of business.
COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS.
Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Furlong: Thoughts or comments. Mr. Laufenburger.
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Councilman Laufenburger: I just want to express my appreciation of support, my appreciate for the
support that the City Council offered on my behalf concerning my appointment to the Transportation
Advisory Board. I heard from Susan Arnst that that appointment was not in my favor. However Susan
has, or Ms. Arnst has made it very clear that she would like to engage me in the Transportation Policy
Committee and I’ve agreed to participate in that so while my position, while Chanhassen will not have a
direct position on the Transportation Advisory Board.
Mayor Furlong: Folks please, can you take conversations in the hallway? Thank you. Sorry Mr.
Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: That’s alright. Though Chanhassen will not have specific representation on
the Transportation Advisory Board, there are other Carver County representatives on the TAB and I
continue, or I will pursue my involvement with the Transportation Policy Committee so on my behalf I
thank Mr. Gerhardt for garnering support and also for the City Council. Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: I would like to congratulate you Councilmember Laufenburger on your new
appointment. On your new committee position.
Councilman Laufenburger: It’s not that hard to volunteer for a committee Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: Hey, take it where you can get it.
Councilman Laufenburger: Exactly.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, any other thoughts? Discussion.
Councilman McDonald: And I would say it’s just, it’s their loss.
Mayor Furlong: I agree. It’s temporary. Couple of comments for the council. First I received
information from the Chanhassen Rotary Club for their annual distinguished service award nomination
process so if anybody has ideas of who should be nominated for the Chanhassen Rotary Club’s
Distinguished Service Award this year, please get those to Mr. Gerhardt and for, if anybody’s still up
watching or ends up reading these Minutes at another time, the public is welcomed to make nominations
as well and I think there’s information on the Chanhassen website for that. The other thing I would say is
that I had the pleasure with my wife and father-in-law to go see Fiddler on the Roof on Saturday night.
It’s been a while since I’ve been to the Dinner Theater. Couple three years and it’s a fantastic
performance. They didn’t make it any shorter than it ever is but it was, there’s no reason to. The staging
is great. The theatrics is wonderful. I mean the acting is fantastic. I would strongly encourage anybody
first, if you can get to see Fiddler still do it but second, this is a great organization. Great business that we
have in town and they’re just doing some great things between the main theater and the Stevie Ray
Comedy show and other things but if you get a chance to go see Fiddler at some point. I think it’s only
running through the end of February but strongly encourage you to do it. It’s just a fantastic show so,
anything else for council presentations?
ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS.
Todd Gerhardt: One item, we have scheduled our legislative priorities meeting with our legislators and
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it’s the 13 of February.
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Chanhassen City Council – January 27, 2014
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Mayor Furlong: February 13.
Todd Gerhardt: At 7:30 in the Fountain Conference Room.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Can you send out?
Todd Gerhardt: You can’t say tomorrow can you?
Mayor Furlong: It is a Thursday?
Todd Gerhardt: It is a Thursday.
Mayor Furlong: Thursday, okay. Alright.
Todd Gerhardt: Sorry.
Councilwoman Ernst: That’s okay.
Todd Gerhardt: But it’s, it’s quite a task to try to find a date that works for everybody and you know it’s
been Tuesdays and they’re really protecting their weekends so Thursday worked for them and if that
works for everybody else. We’ll be sending out a notice later on today. And that’s all I have on that
item.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Thank you. Anything else?
Todd Gerhardt: We want to update you on water tower Paul.
Paul Oehme: Sure. So thank you Todd. Mayor, City Council. The old Melody Hills tower, staff is
working towards the eventual demolition of that tower. We have budgeted funds this year for that work.
We were concerned a couple weeks ago that project might have to slide another year just because of some
coordination issues with the cell providers that are currently on the existing water tower but, however in
the last couple weeks we’ve made I think significant progress towards removing that cell equipment from
the old tower so we did have a pre-construction meeting actually today with one of the providers.
They’re going to start tomorrow. We had another pre-construction meeting with a demolition contractor
and I think we’ve got coordinated work schedules with the cell providers and the demolition contractor
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now so February 24, that’s the date that we tentatively scheduled for the demolition. We still have to get
final approval by the school district for access through there soccer fields but vying any issues there I
think we’re moving towards a resolution on getting that project off the ground, or actually down on the
ground here this year yet so.
Todd Gerhardt: Easily down on the ground.
Mayor Furlong: Easily. Slowly.
Paul Oehme: That’s right.
Mayor Furlong: Without a lot of noise.
Paul Oehme: So I’ll provide updates as weeks progress so.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, very good. Thank you. Any other questions for Mr. Gerhardt or his staff?
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CORRESPONDENCE DISCUSSION.
None.
Councilwoman Ernst moved, Councilwoman Tjornhom seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted
in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0. The City Council meeting was
adjourned at 12:15 a.m.
Submitted by Todd Gerhardt
City Manager
Prepared by Nann Opheim
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