Loading...
2k. Zamboni sale i ,,2 k . CITYOF I - . , , „.„ . CHANHASSEN 1 .. . . . . . , . . . . 690 COULTER DRIVE • P.O. BOX 147 • CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 I (612) 937-1900 • FAX (612) 937-5739 Action by City F,?-';n;strata I MEMORANDUM ndorsed., TO: Park and Recreation Commission Roelf ,, m Reject,'—____ I FROM: Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation Coordinator 1 D`: ----�_--,3-=�Ia._ Date Su4 a13: to C'r-,;$'ro;t DATE: November 17, 1989 I Sct =ie�! - Date Ccurcij SUBJ: Zamboni .____1:____- 67—1______.D IIAs you are all aware, the City purchased a zamboni to resurface the ice at the indoor rink. Since the indoor rink is no longer available, and it cannot be used on the outdoor rinks as it has IIa tendency to freeze up and must be stored in a heated facility, staff is suggesting it be sold. 4 II The zamboni was purchased jointly by the City and by Bloomberg Companies for $5,000 with the agreement that they would be reim- bursed for their share if it was ever sold. The agreement also I states that their share would decrease by 50% of the repairs if such were to occur. Since that time, we have put roughly $1,500 into it ( see attached list) , making their share $1,750. II It is the recommendation of this office to authorize staff to sell the zamboni for the best price available and reimburse Bloomberg Companies $1,750. II Recommendation I The Park and Recreation Commission unanimously recommended that staff be authorized to sell the Zamboni with an asking price of $6,500 and to reimburse Bloomberg Companies $1,750. I II I I I I I ZAMBONI Purchase Price $5,000. 00 ' Drive Sprocket 670.72 Pick Up Chain 765.70 Paint & Decals 64.35 ' $6,500.77 • i Park and Rec Commission Meeting IF November 28, 1989 - Page 40 Schroers: Update them on that and let them know that we would like to see it go in along with and at the same time of the improvement. 1 Sietsema: I would think that one of our priorities would also be that we have some kind of a trail system on the south TH 101 by the time the Bandimere Park is developed because it is going to be an attraction for kids to get down there and they should be able to get there safely. Mady: That portion of the road is. . . ' Sietsema: So it may not be a bad thing to do table this. I can go back and try and get some schedules from Engineering and Planning as far as when some of the road improvements are going to be made and that may help you in determining what kind of prioritization you want to put on these. But something else to consider is how, even if we do this as the streets and the roads are upgraded, we're still going to have to kick in money and so some creative funding ideas are very appropriate. Boyt: Do we have a motion to table? ' Mady moved, Hasek seconded to table prioritization and modification of the ' Chanhassen Comprehensive Trail Plan for more information. All voted in favor and the motion carried. • DISCUSSION OF ZAMBONI . Boyt: Todd, are you our Zamboni man? Hoffman: Sure. I was the Zamboni operator quite a bit last year and the year before. ' Robinson: Were you authorized? Hoffman: Authorized and trained, yes. ' -Lash: It's gone? Hoffman: No, it's still here. It's in our maintenance shop. We had the II City of Orono, up north, they called and scheduled some ice time and we said it' s not available and we talked about the Zamboni and they said, well ' maybe we'll buy it. Lash: How much do you think you could get for it? Mady: At least 5. ' Hoffman: I hope we calf get what we put into it. Mady: We should at least start there. Robinson: What'd we put into it? $6,500.00? ' Park and Rec Commission Meeting November 28, 1989 - Page 41 ' Hoffman: Yep. Boyt: I think we should make at least another hundred bucks so we can get shirts. Lash: I just want to say I thought these Minutes were amusing. ' Schroers: . . .use the Zamboni as a bargaining item and maybe we could shine it up. Put a wax job on it. Make it look real nice and take it up to the bank and see if they wouldn't, since we already have such a nice piece of ' maintenance machinery, that they would finance an indoor rink for us. A no interest loan. Mady: Is that a motion? Schroers: No, not a motion. Creative thinking. Robinson: I make a motion that we authorize staff to sell the Zamboni for starting at a price of the $6,500.00 that we've got into it. Lash: I second that. Robinson moved, Lash seconded to authorize staff to sell theme+Zamboni at a starting price of $6,500.00. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Robinson: I'd still like to say I told you so. ' Sietsema: But it served us for 2 years. Mady: It served it' s purpose and did us a heck of a good job. COMMISSION PRESENTATIONS: Boyt: At our next meeting would you report to us on morals and ethics as adopted by the Council. Lash: Are you talking about this thing that the Citizens. . . Sietsema: The Youth Commission. ' Lash: Is that what you're talking about? ' Boyt: Yes. Hoffman: They're posted in our lobby. I Boyt: I think we need a full presentation and it would have been helpful when we were doing our mission statement when there was a concern that voiced by the Commission that we don't want to dictate morals to people when our City has adopted a plan to support a stance on morals and ethics. 11 f_m6 a, , t -/1-Fr 4 CITY o d. c F-ef... II!ti Ir., '" 690 COULTER DRIVE • P.O. BOX 147 • CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 ... CHANHASSEN 1 (612) 937-1900 I MEMORANDUM 1 TO: Don Ashworth, City Manager _ /a/a,3/P7 FROM: Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation Coordinator c , /2/17 DATE: December 21, 1987 -�I...` _,vw. .M-V - . SUBJ: The purchase of a Zamboni for the indoor rink 79..c.4 N i..- -gc. The Park and Recreation Commission recently reviewed a request to ' purchase a zamboni for the indoor rink. The indoor rink has the potential to break even and even make I money. However, this has not happened in the past due to our inability to maintain a quality ice surface. The build4ng has a condensation problem on one end that causes water to drip onto I the ice, which then forms lumps. Also, when the weather hovers around freezing or above, we are unable to resurface the rink with the water truck as it does not freeze. Therefore, it has I been requested that we purchase a small zamboni. The zamboni will allow us to shave the bumps off the ice and resurface it with a thin layer of water. Because it is a thin I layer of ice, we will be able to resurface the rink more fre- quently for much higher ice quality. The zamboni is currently under the ownership of a zamboni dealer. I He is willing to train our maintenance staff and provide opera- tion manuals. The zamboni will cost $5,000. I Originally the CCHA was planning to donate one-half of the total price. They are not financially able to do that, however, due to the amount of capital it has taken to make imporvements on the , ice arena. Bloomberg Companies, having a vested interest in the building as landlord, has agreed to pay $2,500 for the zamboni. The zamboni would be solely owned by the City, however, Bloomberg II Companies would hold a security interest in the machine. The Park and Recreation Commission was concerned that the zamboni II would not solve the condensation problem. They were also con- cerned about the security interest and how that would affect the ownership. They requested that the zamboni be inspected and a written statement of condition be provided by the seller. I 1 Don Ashworth December 21, 1987 Page 2 The Park and Recreation Commission acted to approve the purchase PP P of the zamboni for $5,000. They will use $2,500 of the money donated by the Lion's Club and the security interest of $2,500 made by Bloomberg Companies to pay for the purchase. The Com- - mission made this approval based upon the following conditions: ' 1. Staff would work with the zamboni dealer to have the hydraulics, engine and compression inspected and obtain a written statement of condition. 2. The zamboni would be operated and scheduled by authorized City staff only. 3. The City would accept the security interest from Bloomberg Companies with the stipulation that 50% of any ' major repairs will be paid from that interest, and the City has the option to pay back the interest at any time. 4 . Bloomberg Companies agree to install insulation in the ' roof of the building if the condensation problem is not solved by the zamboni. Attached please find a letter to Brad Johnson regarding these con- ditions. I will request authorization for payment upon the satis- faction of these conditions. 1 1 1 1 • CITY OF CHANHASSEN 1 690 COULTER DRIVE • P.O. BOX 147 • CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900 ' December 17, 1987 ' Mr. Brad Johnson Box 100 Chanhassen, MN 55317 , Dear Brad: As you know, the Park and Recreation Commission authorized the ' purchase of the Zamboni provided the following conditions are met: 1. The City must receive a written statement of condition upon the completion of an inspection of the machine's engine, hydraulics and compression. ' 2. The machine will be operated and scheduled only by authorized personnel. 3. An agreement with Bloomberg Companies stipulates that any major repairs on the machine will reduce the secured interest by 50% of the cost of those repairs. ' 4 . The City has the option to pay off the secured interest at any time. ' 5. Bloomberg Companies agrees to install insulation in the ice arena if the condensation problem is not solved with the Zamboni. I believe all of these conditions were agreeable to you. I will process payment of the Zamboni as soon as these conditions are ' met. Please call Dale, Todd or myself if you have any questions. ' Sincerely, 144A: Lori Sietsema ' Park and Recreation Coordinator LS/ktm , II CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING DECEMBER 8, 1987 Chairman Lynch called the meeting to order. MEMBERS PRESENT: Mike Lynch, Curt Robinson, Jim Mady, Ed Hasek, Sue Boyt, and Larry Schroers ' MEMBERS ABSENT: Carol Watson ' STAFF PRESENT: Lori Sietsema, Park and Rec Coordinator; Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Assistant; and Dale Gregory APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Hasek moved, Mady seconded to approve the Minutes of the Park and Recreation Commission meeting dated November 24, 1987 as - amended on page 1. All voted in favor and motion carried. • 1 REVIEW REQUEST TO PURCHASE ZAMBONI , BRAD JOHNSON. * Due to a problem in taping, a portion of Brad Johnson's presentation regarding the zamboni was deleted. The following is a summary of what was presented. Having an ice rink proves that people will be drawn into ths downtown area. With better ice conditions the ice rink can get top dollar for it's use. The Hockey Association just wants to be a tenant and will put $500.00 to $1,000.00 into the ice rink but they can't afford to put any more than that. Brad Johnson: ...the $2,500.00 was intended to be a gift. The Association, you could probable create some type of fund raiser outside of the Association but the Association itself just sees that it should be a ' tenant. We spent a lot of money on ice time and we raise the money to do that and we prefer to have that distributed evenly over all the programs and not just the program in Chanhassen. That's how we got to where we are. ' Going down your list, the zamboni fellows have been out here a couple times. We just have never had any cold weather to make the thing work. I think he told you the same thing. He'd be more than happy to come out here. All this guy does is just like you, he runs around all night fixing ' things. If the zamboni's broke down, he's got a service and he does it all himself. If one dies, the rinks are down so he's got to run around and fix those things so he said, why don't you just get some ice and we'll come ' over and make it work. That has made us comfortable so far. His wanting to make the operation work. I'm sure he wants future business from Chanhassen and he knows we're thinking about building a rink and stuff like ' that so i don't think if we checked them out, they've got a track record of ripping off people as far as zamboni people. He is a zamboni rep. He also sells zamboni machines here. As far as a guarantee, I think it's tough to guarantee it. I don't know if you guys ever guarantee a used car, but a 25 year old vehicle I think has been suspect and try to figure out what's wrong. It's obviously got a brake problem or something in the right hand side...I think we can work through that so I think that's the concept. Park and Rec Commission Meeting December 8, 1987 - Page 2 They are willing to come out and work with us to make it work. They've ' been out, like I said I think 3 times but we just have never had the opportunity to see what kind of problems we would have. We do want to get a manual and they assure us they're trying to find a manual or a copy of a I manual will be made up. As I said, the financial commitment that the Hockey Association has had, remembering that they put about $12,000.00 into that so far in man hours, they feel that they're just kind of tapped out plus, as I said, the income goes to the city, not anybody else. For the best answer, that's what Rick and I decided is to just increase the overall rents... As far as operational schedules and so forth, I think that only makes sense. As a coach and a member of the Hockey Association, the last I thing we like to do is have league meetings. Once we get going in the season, just like you guys, we have to know and those of you in soccer, if you had to play soccer. It's disruptive so I think that just only makes sense. One of the reasons we also have this relationship with the City is I that we said if we rent it or Bloomberg or anybody else rented it, the insurance costs, all those kinds just come out of the woodwork so it's worked out very well. We've kept the expenses down, I'd say fairly low. The think doesn't make money yet for the city. If we ever have a cold year it would probably break even. Then as far as security interest, we could probably draft something that basically said they have an interest in it up' to $2,500.00 if you ever owed money on it. I don't know if that's a good idea or bad idea. I guess that's how we did it. There was a lot of discussion about the problems in the rink and as Dale said,41I just can't believe the size, we don't have huge bumps and if they're in there more often than we are, I think that the blade on the machine will keep the ice in good shape. I think the bottom line is that you'll find better usage of the rink once we figure out how to get it done. A couple of weeks of hard knocks trying to figure out how to get it over there and get it flooded and that type of thing but that's basically our answer to it. Creative financing but there might be another way of doing it. You've got the use of $2,500.00 from Bloomberg and try and find some other means. Dale Gregory: Where's that thing going to be stored? Brad Johnson: Where it is. Dale Gregory: Right now? That means you're going to have to drive it back ' and forth each time you use it? Brad Johnson: Yes. The ones in Boston, what they were going to do, is they had outdoor rinks and they actually were going to use it for surfacing ' their outdoor rinks and they would drive it one block. There are a number of rinks in northern Minnesota, they are outdoors in smaller towns like Red Lake and places that have outdoor rinks and they use those machines for ' surfacing. Schroers: Do you feel that if the improvements are made on the building that you want with the insulation and the consistency and all that combined ' with having the zamboni that the revenue generated would be satisfactory? Do you have any figures as to how much revenue you think you would generate? I . Park and Rec Commission December 8, 1987 - Page 3 Brad Johnson: We've been over to Hopkins and Hopkins rented 600 hours a year and we haven't hit that number at all. Part of it's programming and getting good and organized. This year we've got a couple of industrial leagues coming in. We're getting more calls. People are starting to find ' out that we've got it here. Last year we had the whole Minnetonka Association here. The weather plus the ice. I had days when they called me at home, the Hockey Association and said get over here. We've got 1,000 guys trying to play and it's all wet. We did pretty good. We did pretty good. Our kids improved over the year. In fact our kids got better tha their kids over there because they had more use of the ice and they didn't have anything at all but I think we just have to have a good, reasonable ' operation. It's a sales kind of problem. They're buying a service, it's their money and they match us against something else. Todd Hoffman: Approxim atey one-third of the time is for opening skating so that's not going to generate any revenue and approximately one-third is for the Hockey program and then about one-third is left over for adult programs. People can call up and reserve an hour of ice time if they want to have it. Schroers: What are you charging, like $45.00 an hour now? ' Todd Hoffman: Yes. Brad Johnson: Just raise it $5.00. Lynch: What happened in the Hopkins barn last year? Were they able to get any ice at all? Brad Johnson: I would guess they had the same problem we did but I did not check with them. We had a month and a half of ice but it was touch and go. Dale Gregory: Do they have concrete floor over there or is that dirt? Lynch: You can get into specific soil conditions where the soil is particularly non-conductive and you might have that problem. I'd be interested to see if Hopkins froze more than a month and a half. ' Brad Johnson: The first year what happened, one end of the rink was heated while we were building the boards and the other end wasn't so when we flooded the rink, remember that? One end would freeze and the other end ' wouldn't so that was that year. It was just a disaster. Then last year we just couldn't keep up with it. He says he normally tries to get out about 15 inches of ice on it. Dale, you've never had the benefit of any kind of cold weather on it to build anywhere near that. Dale Gregory: When we've had cold weather for short periods, it's a good ice surface. It's surprising the surface. Brad Johnson: It doesn't crack or doesn't do anything. Park and Rec Commission Meeting December 8, 1987 - Page 4 , Dale Gregory: Real stable. Holds up well . , Boyt: Do you know what the projected life expectancy of the zamboni is? Brad Johnson: I don't know. ' - Boyt: Is the zamboni company interested in taking that and trading it? Brad Johnson: Normally that's what they do. As a matter of fact, that's I where he got this. He just got another one in on a trade that he got. Boyt: That's the 30 year old. It doesn't matter to him. Brad Johnson: They're selling them. There's a market for a zamboni. I'm not an expert on it but as long as they run and work. ' Boyt: And will Dale be doing the maintenance on the zamboni? Sietsema: Yes. ' Boyt: Do you have time for that in the winter? Dale Gregory: If it gets to anything major enginewise or anything like that, then we' ll have to go to the mechanic at the shop. Boyt: Yes, but I mean changing the blade once a week. , Dale Gregory: That general maintenance is no big deal . Boyt: You have the time? Dale Gregory: Yes. , Schroers: According to what we have here, we've agreed to purchase the zamboni based on the conditions that are mentioned here. I guess is there II anyone willing to give a written guarantee according to the condition of the machine right now? Will they want to do that? Dale Gregory: I think you were saying, and I've got to tend to agree with II you, that to get a guarantee on something 25 years old. Schroers: No, I'm not asking for someone to put like a warranty or a II guarantee on it, just someone that will state that it is in good operating condition at the present time. Brad Johnson: He was suppose to send me a letter on Sunday stating that. II As a prerequisite of all this, he's agreed to come out and work through the system and see how it works. We've checked it out and to say what can you do when you can't make any ice, that's what we're waiting for. • 111 Park and Rec Commission Meeting December 8, 1987 - Page 5 Lynch: There's a number of specific wear items I think that Larry is probably referring to. Does the engine have good compression? Has the gear case oil been sent in for one of these $25.00 analysis to see how much metal it has in it? What are the conditions of the brake pads and tires ' and the bearings? We're not talking about a left handed widgit that gets loose and falls off on one side. We're talking major items that could be gauged. A good mechanic can look at it and tell you. Yes it is or no it isn't. Rich Larsen: Mike, I called the fellow and talked to him and basically what he told me, he says there's a new blade with it. They've put new pads ' on it and basically they put new brakes in it. Now there is something wrong with one of the brakes. As far as the motor and hydraulics or anything else, they haven't gotten into any of that. ' Lynch: Alright, I'd want to have eventually the engine and the hydraulics looked at because everybody in the hydraulics business has portable test kits so you can slam it on there and see what the condition of the ' hydraulic system is in just a number of minutes. Compression checks are not that tough. Several other things, I'm sure the city mechanic could do to look that engine over. Dale Gregory: The engine, that would be no problem. I could even do the compression check on that. •k ' Lynch: Just because it starts doesn' t mean. . . Dale Gregory: If he takes them in trade, does he rebuild them or refurbish ' them? Is that something you want him to look at and check the hydraulics and all that sort of stuff out so you can get a letter from him stating that? Lynch: I'd like to have that before anybody paid cent number one because obviously the thing that bothers us Brad is let's say we recommend to the ' Council that this goes ahead and that all these other conditions are met and it goes ahead and it's used for 2 weeks or a month and it goes down. They come out and look at it and they say, gee it's pretty major stuff here. We're looking at $1,800.00 to fix this. $1,800.00 nowadays is a ' drop in the bucket. Hasek: Lori, what's the timing between this meeting and when it would get 1 to Council? Sietsema: If you approve the purchase, it will be put in the administrative package that we purchased it. It will not go to Council for ' approval. Brad Johnson: I think what the guy was telling me on the guarantee is that ' he can check things and do things. We can check things to make sure they work out before we pay for it. He just can't warranty the future of the machine. 1 Park and Rec Commission Meeting December 8, 1987 - Page 6 Schroers: We understand that. We just want to make sure that. . . 1 Lynch: By a guarantee we didn't need a warranty. What we want those guys to tell us, in writing basically, a molded statement that the machine is in good condition. I want to know that they have new brakes in it. That the engine and compression check and the timing has been looked at, that it has a decent battery in it, the battery checks out fine and the hydraulic system is okay, that the tires are 50% worn, 75% good or whatever it is. II I'd like to see an analysis on it. The same thing I would ask of someone that I was purchasing a piece of equipment from. Brad Johnson: Who do we have to do that? ' Dale Gregory: I don't know who we would get off hand but I guess what I'm wondering is, is that something you would want from him so you could go back on and say. Lynch: You bet. ' Dale Gregory: I guess I'm looking at it, he's the one who should be doing this. Lynch: He wants to sell us the machine and I want him telling me exactly Y what that machine is like because I don't have the expertisdlto do and neither do probably the rest of us to go down and look at the thing, number ' one. Rich Larsen: Engine wise, I don't think there's anyway around it. I think ' we would have to have R & R come in. I don't even know that he would actually have to personally do anything. The guy is familiar with the machine. I think if we can get that, that letter that indicates. Lynch: Again, not general. Go through the major systems and tell us that they're alright. Rich Larsen: There really are only three major systems on the machine. The engine itself, hydraulics, the mechanical and the pickup system. Lynch: We're not worried about the normal wear and tear. We're worried about catatrosphic failure. Mady: I'm wondering if that's probably something we can rely on staff on. I We can trust the staff to do, if we ask them to, they can see to it that it's done prior to sending the check. Make sure that they prove to them that the hydraulic system is good. That the engine has good compression. I I'm not sure what else we can do. Lynch: The tires and brakes. Rich Larsen: The tires we saw on there are in good shape. It's generally what you can see is in decent shape. It's the things that you can't see. 1 II ! Park and Rec Commission Meeting December 8, 1987 - Page 7 Schroers: I had a question on bearings. On a machine that's 25 years old, how good are the bearings? Lynch: Do they have service records on the machine? ' Brad Johnson: I'm not sure they do. It was originally owned by the Ice Capades and sort of sitting up north for 5 or 6 years. Rich Larsen: It came out of Wisconsin. Brad Johnson: Yes, it wasn't being used. It was just part of somebody. ' Rich Larsen: It was being used by some fellow in Wisconsin had some small rinks that were used for figure skating. Now whether he's got records or . ' not, I don't know. Robinson: Can we go back to 2 weeks ago and work for word the motion that ' Jim made? To recommend to make the commitment to purchase the zamboni upon the following conditions being met and until that time the item is tabled. The zamboni will be checked out by a zamboni rep who will indicate that it's in good shape and worth $5,000.00. Maybe that has, I'm not sure. The ' Hockey Association will donate $2,500.00 for solving the dripping of the condensation. Has that one been met? va Brad Johnson: We just spoke with the Hockey Association. They're no interested in investing. We'll tell them how the Hockey Association perceives it. ' Rich Larsen: It's a City-Bloomberg thing, not a Hockey Association thing. Robinson: Right, but we said we would table it until these are met and that one hasn' t been met. Reject security interest of Bloomberg Companies? Mady: I've thought a lot about this since two weeks have occurred and I ' don't think it's right for us to tell the Hockey Association to spend money in a facility that they don't own, they have no responsibility in. That's a City facility. Boyt: No it's not. Mady: Well , it's not their facility. Boyt: It's Bloomberg's facility. It's Mr. Bloomberg's facility and we use it. Mady: We lease it. Sietsema: It's a City operation. Mady: It's a City operation so I don't think we can tell them they have to do something so we can do something. I don't think that's right. I think 1 11 II Park and Rec Commission Meeting December 8, 1987 - Page 8 II it's the City's responsibility for the building. If the City and the Park II and Rec Commission feels we need a ice arena, it's the City's responsibility to have an ice arena. It's great that we have a Hockey Association that's willing to put money into it, do some work and all the II things that they're doing over there but I don't believe it's their responsibility to keep the thing going. They did a good job binding it and getting it started. I think it's really a city's responsibility to keep that running. II Robinson: This was your motion 2 weeks ago Jim. Mady: Yes, but I'm saying I'm going to reconsider it. 1 Lynch: I don't have a problem with that as long as it's working. As far II as I'm concerned it can drip as long as the dripping doesn't cause extra work for Dale or make extra wear and tear on whatever piece of equipment they're using to service it. Whether you're running around with a truck with blades on it or whatever it happens to be. You're doing it with the II tractors now. Dale Gregory: We would scrap it with the tractor. I Lynch: It was unable to handle it in most cases? Ni Dale Gregory: Yes, but now it's a little different situation. It's a II homemade scraper that we've got with weights on the back. I'm sure a zamboni would do it a lot better . Mady: The blade probably isn't as sharp. II Dale Gregory: It's the same blade. It's a paper cutting blade. We use the same thing but like I say, the condensation problem, I guess the thing II that's going to curious with the zamboni is how fast it freezes. If it freezes up fast, we can go in there like at, they open up at 3:00, we can II go in there at 2:00 and actually do the rink so it would be all shaved off and ready for that thing. Then like I say, we can eliminate the condensation problem that way but the way we were working it, we flooded it in the morning and it would freeze up and by afternoon...That's what I'm II saying. With the zamboni it would probably go in there at 2:00 and shave it off and it would freeze and it would be ready at 3:00. It depends on how fast it freezes up there if you use the zamboni on that. II Lynch: What bothers me is one of these hidden catch deals. If we do get the zamboni and the condensation problem is still a problem, the zamboni's not able to handle it or it occurs so fast after you go out and level the II ice with the zamboni that by the time people can get on it, it's got lumps on it. People say we're not going on there to pay $25.00 an hour to skate on lumpy ice. Then I. can see real quickly where the City, it's going to be II a problem. ...said today it's your guys program. If you need some building modifications in there, take care of it. Bloomberg properties doesn't need to insulate that end of it. II II I . Park and Rec Commission Meeting December 8, 1987 - Page 9 Sietsema: They might. Brad Johnson: We had a chat about this and they said they would if they needed to. The solution I perceive because I've spent a lot of time over ' at the rink, he was over there when they were flooding and I said it appeared to be that most of the problem with the condensation could be just covered by shaving it periodically at the proper time. ' Robinson: Strict operational policy and operational schedules will be made by City Staff and implemented by staff. Lynch: No problems there? Brad Johnson: None. ' Schroers: How do you feel about training an operator and seeing to it that only properly trained people operate it? Brad Johnson: That's the way it has to be. Normally it's the rink attendant who runs it. Rich Larsen: How many different rink attendants do you typically have over there? 46 ' Sietsema: Last year we had two people. Rich Larsen: What were their ages? ' Sietsema : 21 and 19 were the two ages . Schroers: So we could insure that they would be responsible people. ' Sietsema: He have not yet hired anyone for this year but we do have this in mind so that we're looking for people who would be responsible, old enough to take the responsibility. Schroers: And who would supervise and check on them? ' Sietsema: Todd. Schroers : You don' t feel that that would be any kind of a major problem? You have a real good handle on who was operating it and when? Hoffman: One of the persons that has an application in is a third year college student, has worked in an ice arena before and has run zambonis and that person is able to work all weekends and most of the weekdays. Then there's a couple other people that are older, second and third year college students that are available to work. Sietsema: Dale would also be supervising them and trainin g them • 11 1 Park and Rec Commission Meeting December 8, 1987 - Page 10 Schroers: It's apparent to me that there is certainly enough interest I and enough people that would like to use the facility if we could provide them with a good facility. I think that's what I'd like to do is try to work together to provide as good a facility as we can. It doesn't seem as 1 though we're talking about that large of amount of money. We should be able to work something out. Mady: Do you have any remaining real difficult problems? ' Robinson: Yes, number 4 said reject the security interest of Bloomberg Companies which is related to number 2. Now, I think so out of the four, I think the first one probably has. The zamboni rep has been talked to but the financing has not. It has not been addressed and that was one of the things we had to have. Lynch: Here, we tried to offer an alternative. We said, we didn't want to be in parternship with a private party on a piece of city owned, city maintained, city insured equipment. We said well, maybe Bloomberg can lend I the money to the Hockey Association and the Hockey Association can donate that. I'd also go this far with a secured interest if it was a truly uncommon secured interest where Bloomberg pays half, we pay half, we both own half. We cover the routine maintenance which would be specified under II a certain dollar value of $200.00 per item but any major expenses over a certain level would have to be shared as well. If the long Perm shared value of the machine at sale or trade in is going to be shared , major maintenance normally is too. The other side of the picture I see is even though I know this is not a large profit center for Bloomberg Properties, the legal aspect of it is that they are taking half of the rental monies and if they do maintain a secured interest of a half of the machine, I'd like to see them up the liability for catastrophic failure, maintain that side too. Hasek: Let me understand this. When we talked about this before we had two options. What we were looking for was a $2,500.00 commitment by them to do something. Either to correct the ceiling problem or to pay for half of the zamboni. We talked about total outright purchase of this last time. We talked about buying the whole thing. Lynch: I don't see them . . .the ceiling. , Hasek: What you're suggesting is that perhaps the zamboni can fix the problem. If the problem can't be fixed, they are willing to make a commitment to do that which is really what we've asked them to do except here it says the Association make a financial commitment to either purchase the zamboni or to correct the condensation problem on the rink. What they are saying if the zamboni can't handle the condensation problems on the ice surface, they're willing to make a commitment to the ceiling in order to guarantee a nice surface. So really that's what you're talking about right? 11 II - Park and Rec Commission Meeting ' December 8, 1987 - Page 11 Brad Johnson: Yes, we talked about, just prior to this letter anyway, doing something with the ceiling. If you guys can figure out how to get the deal done, I think we're flexible. We just don't want to get hung up in the Association. ' Boyt: I think that makes a lot of sense. We don't ask our soccer teams or our baseball teams or our basketball teams to help with the facilities at ' all. I don't think it's fair to ask the Hockey Association to go in to provide a facility that the whole community uses. Last year the ice was a problem. The quality of the ice, when it was there, was too bumpy. It's ' not as enjoyable and not as many people are going to use it. I think to provide a quality surface we need the zamboni and I think the Park and Rec Commission should ask the City to pay for the whole thing. ' Hasek: I absolutely agree. I guess what I'm thinking is there still in my mind is no reason why, if problems with the structure of the building, that that still can' t be handled by. Boyt: I think the zamboni will still give us a much nicer surface than we ever had even if there was no condensation problems. ' Brad Johnson: We would like to get that ceiling insulated so it keeps it, it doesn't heat up so fast. We lose a little time in late February and March when the sun comes out. It would be nice just to more importantly insulate. Sietsema: It's nice to have the extra $2,500.00 in our budget that we ' didn't have before. There are requests that come up throughout the year such as the bleachers which we will be talking about later that we can do because it's not budgeted where we couldn't otherwise. Our budget is so tight if we want to do everything that's in our capital improvement program ' this year that we do not have room to do anything else. There is nothing built in there for anything else. ' Boyt: What about the Lion's money? Sietsema: This is the Lion's money. So if we use all of the Lion's money ' for the zamboni , we won't be able to do the bleachers. Brad Johnson: Why don't you just use our $2,500.00 until you get the next Lion's money? Just hold it and if we have problems with it. Sietsema: We can't really count on it because they might not make anything in the next three months. We got the last donation last April and we got I the second one just last month so we can't count on the Lion's money and they don't want us to count on it but it is something to consider with Bloomberg giving us this interest free, security interest loan, whatever you want to call it, it does allow us to still have a little bit of money on the reserve to take care of some things that come up throughout the year that we didn't count on like the bleachers which happens to be on the agenda tonight so I just wanted to bring that to your attention. There 1 1 I Park and Rec Commission Meeting December 8, 1987 - Page 12 isn't any money to do anything extra without that. The first donation that 'll we got went in as our community support for our LAWCON grant applications so that's in the matching fund. The second one we just got last month, that's what we're deciding on what we're going to spend that on right now. II That was $5,900.00 so I just wanted to bring that to your attention because there is that to consider. We don't have a lot of fund money to play with. We are over budget on last year 's capital improvement program. Hasek: What you're saying is let's take advantage of Bloomberg's offer and that would just extend our ability to finance the whole thing? Sietsema: Yes. Lynch: If we did have a major breakdown of the machine, say $1,000.00 or more, is that money available? Where would it come from? Sietsema: That would come out of the maintenance fund . Lynch: City maintenance fund? Sietsema: The machine will be owned by the City. We'll just be using Bloomberg 's money. Brad Johnson: What I hear you saying is, if there was a security interest, it sounds like what could happen is that you could ship back to the , Bloomberg Companies maybe a year from now the $2,500.00? If you want to own the whole machine. Simultaneously if there is some diastrous thing, say over a couple hundred dollars during the year, if it's a major thing, I we just share that and just reduce our interest in the security. Just write the deal that way. That way you've got the money. Rich Larsen: From the Hockey Association's point of view, just thinking ' through here what you're saying, if you're willing to put up the $2,500.00, Bloomberg has already put up the other $2,500.00. If, and or when next year funds are available that he can get his $2,500.00 back, the City owns it, either this year or next year, at that time I think to help insure your I minds, the Hockey Association would be willing to accept risk up to $1,000.00 for catastrophic failure because obviously we are receiving a benefit of having the rink and I'll go with that because I think that would pretty well cover Dale's got the everyday wear and tear stuff, I'll pick up the $1,000.00 or if it's something more than that. . . Mady: I guess I'm having some problems with this thing here. We don't ask CAA to pay for the lawn tractor to cut the grass up here so they can play baseball, softball, soccer and I don't know why we're asking someone other II than the City to put up money for a security interest or anything else, in a city asset. Sietsema: I'm talking"'about Bloomberg Companies and not the Hockey ' Association because Bloomberg does have an interest. He gets more rent money out of that building if we can sell more ice time and we can sell I Park and Rec Commission Meeting December 8, 1987 - Page 13 more ice time if we have quality ice and we can have quality ice if we have the zamboni. So it makes sense to me that we're using this money of Bloomberg's but it doesn't make sense to me to make the Hockey Association give it because you're right, we don't ask any other association to •. ' maintain their fields. We do that and I think that we should continue to do that. 1 Lynch: Correct me if I'm wrong Dale but I don't think we buy any other equipment that is this specific in nature for any other particular program that some piece of equipment is not general city use for other things. Sietsema: Soccer goals, backstops, tennis courts. _ Lynch: That's not equipment. I realize there is maintenance on it but it's not subject to catastrophic failure and we're not buying 25 year old, tennis courts. We're buying a brand new one. Robinson: In my opinion, we hashed this around 2 weeks ago for an hour or ' hour and a half and now we've been at it tonight for almost an hour and nothing has changed from 2 weeks ago except some views have changed but nothing has changed. Sietsema: You've gotten more information than you had last week and that was the big holdup 2 weeks ago was lack of information. I d'idn't have the ' right answers. Robinson: The way the motion read, and I was opposed to the motio.n that we had, I don't see what's changed other than when we ask for some specific ' things to happen and those haven't happened, I guess I'm disappointed in the Commission. Mady: I'd like to have my motion reconsidered. I'm not sure how we do that with Carol not being here since she was the second on it. Sietsema: As I recall, what happened last night at the Council level, when I there should be a reconsideration it takes a two-thirds vote to have the motion reconsidered and being your the one that made the motion, I think that we can do it. Boyt: Does reconsider mean just a revote or that we can revise? ISietsema: Restructure the motion. Boyt: Curt, apparently the way the security interest was voted last week isn't the way it is so that information was incorrect. We still don't have ' the information from number 1. I think they're still asking for some information before any final decision is made. I Robinson: But the receipt on the check says security interest. Brad says that we can work all that out. • Park and Rec Commission Meeting December 8, 1987 - Page 14 ' Lynch: If we get something in writing. Brad Johnson: The security interest has to be signed by both parties and we can work that out with staff and review it next time. My concern is that we've got a rink that we're trying to play on, we're trying to sell some I ice time so we can get it used and either we don't have a zamboni or we do have a zamboni. The guy who owns the zamboni could have sold it three times that we've been waiting for some kind of decision. We're trying to I do what we can and we perceive, I've got a Bloomberg hat on, that we're partners and if the problem is you don't have the cash at this particular point to do the transaction, we could supply it. Just that we didn't want to write it off. If we could figure out some soft way of solving that problem, that's what we would do. It's your machine and what Mike said, if II we have a catastrophy, we'll take a reduction in it. Maybe there's something we can figure out. I just can't in the next month or two find the $2,500.00 of the Association. We have a fundraiser specific to pay back the City for that item I don't know. Robinson: But you've had the machine since last January? 11 months? Brad Johnson: Yes. Robinson: And we got it brought before us 2 weeks ago that we had to make ' a decision in 3 days. That was another one of my objections: Brad Johnson: If we could finally figure out a vehicle with which to do 1 it. If funds became available. Mady moved, Schroers seconded to reconsider the motion of November 24, 1987 I regarding purchase of the zamboni. All voted in favor except Curt Robinson who opposed and motion carried . Mady moved, Schroers seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission ' recommends to purchase the zamboni machine based upon the following conditions: 1. Staff work with the present owner of the machine and have the zamboni certified that the major components, i.e. hydraulic system, engine system, are checked over. Checking compression and I other various tests to insure that the zamboni is in good operating condition. 2. The zamboni be operated by trained, qualified staff of the City. ' 3. The City accept the security interest from Bloomberg Companies in the amount of $2,500.00 and Bloomberg Companies will allow their security interest to be reduced by a 50% share for any major repairs that may become necessary during the time period which the security interest is outstanding. ' Park and Rec Commission Meeting December 8, 1987 - Page 15 ' 4. The City retains the right to buy out the security interest at any point in time. ' 5. The Bloomberg Companies will agree to install insulation to solve the condensation problem if the zamboni does not alleviate that problem. All voted in favor except Robinson who opposed and motion carried. ' Schroers: Do we add about the insulation in the event that the zamboni isn't able to totally solve the problem with the dripping, that either the Bloomberg Companies or the Association take the responsibility for doing ' the needed insulation repairs to stop the condensation and the dripping? Lynch: If we did that and proceed on the purchase, we would have to have a letter from either Bloomberg or the Association that said exactly that. ' Rich Larsen: That's not a problem for the Association. ' Schroers: Can we just have a good faith commitment from you? Lynch: Like the man said, my word is my bond but I'd rather.have it in writing. I think we have to have that. ' Schroers: What I'm getting at is if we make the decision to make this investment to hopefully provide a quality facility, that that's what we ' want to end up with. It may take something more than just the zamboni to have a real nice surface. We may need to have the condensation problem corrected. ' Mady: Okay, then the proviso would be that the Bloomberg Companies would agree to work with the City and if the condensation problem is not alleviated through the use of the zamboni , that they would be made to work ' to repair the condensation problem with the building. ' Sietsema: I just wanted to let you know that Lake Ann Park is closed right now. Apparently there was some vandalism done. People did some little circles, donuts in the grass and tore up the grass. ' Dale Gregory: The police a week ago caught somebody out there just driving all over the place and down towards the lake where the new area is put in, they just literally cut off and ripped the heck out of it. Lynch: Four wheeling? Dale Gregory: I don't know if it was a 4 wheet drive or what it was but they just spun all over out there and they've got ruts all over the place. • Lynch: They caught the people?