CC 2014 02 24
CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL
REGULAR MEETING
FEBRUARY 24, 2014
Mayor Furlong called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. The meeting was opened with the Pledge to
the Flag.
COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT:
Mayor Furlong, Councilman McDonald, Councilwoman
Tjornhom, Councilwoman Ernst, and Councilman Laufenburger
STAFF PRESENT:
Todd Gerhardt, Laurie Hokkanen, Paul Oehme, Kate Aanenson, Todd Hoffman,
and City Attorney Tom Scott
PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS:
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Good evening and welcome to those here in the council chambers that have
joined us this evening, as well as those watching at home. We’re glad you’re here. With that we’ll start
this evening and I would ask if there are, from members of the council, if there are any modifications or
changes proposed to the agenda. If not, without objection we’ll proceed with the agenda as published.
CONSENT AGENDA: Councilman Laufenburger moved, Councilwoman Ernst seconded to
approve the following consent agenda items pursuant to the City Manager’s recommendations:
1. Approval of City Council Minutes dated February 10, 2014
2. Receive Park and Recreation Commission Minutes dated January 28, 2014
3. TH 101 Minnesota River Crossing & CSAH 61 (Flying Cloud Drive): Approval of Joint Powers
Agreement with Carver County and Approval of Plans and Specifications.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS:
None.
LAW ENFORCEMENT/FIRE DEPARTMENT UPDATE.
Mayor Furlong: I don’t see anyone from the sheriff’s department here right now so Chief Wolff, you’re
up first tonight. Good evening.
Chief John Wolff: Good evening Mayor. Good evening council. Up first and last tonight perhaps.
Couple things. We did receive a flood outlook for spring of 2014 from the Weather Service and really to
my surprise they’re calling near normal to slightly below near normal and that’s because we were in
pretty much a drought phase coming into this year so the snow pack, you know current snow pack is not a
major concern. We are though expecting another good solid 6 weeks of big time winter so well below
normal temperatures and precipitation so we could see a lot more snow and/or rain in the next 6 weeks
which could change that outlook. And then of course as things warm up, if you have rain in conjunction
with that, that can also impact things on a very local, but we’ll keep our eye on those things and keep city
management apprised. The other concern we have with weather is, with all the snow that we’ve been
getting is just keeping hydrants clear and there was an article in the Villager 2 weeks ago. Appreciate
them sharing that message. We saw a number of hydrants getting cleared as a result of that. Our city
crews are working round the clock to keep them cleared but we have 2,000 hydrants in our city and we’re
Chanhassen City Council – February 24, 2014
also trying to keep sidewalks cleared and other commercial or other infrastructure items too so, so we’re
about 40% buried hydrants in the city and so the message that I would like to share with our citizens is if,
if they’re able bodied. If they have a snowblower and a shovel, get a couple neighbors together and just
make sure that the hydrants around their homes are cleared out. I cleared out 4 of them in my
neighborhood this past weekend and it’s, you know it’s not easy work. It’s, you know with a big
snowblower it took me about 20 minutes per. I know that our city crews have bigger machinery and they
can move stuff quicker but we could use the help of the citizenry for that so would appreciate that. Just
you know there was a real big fire in Minneapolis last week. You know kind of hit the news. 5 people
lost their lives. Very unfortunate and I just wanted to make a couple comments about winter heating.
Couple things. If you are using a space heater, make sure it’s 3 feet away from anything that’s
combustible. That you’re following the manufacturer’s directions. That’s it UL or another agency
similar to that approved. And if it is electric, don’t use extension cords. We find that that sometimes is
the cause with the space heater problems. Make sure your smoke detectors are working. You should
have a working smoke detector at every level of the home and I would encourage people to also put them
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in bedrooms. Call volume. So with the winter, which started November 1, we’ve actually, we’ve seen
the highest call levels since 2003 for our fire department and we’re averaging about 60 calls a month,
which is about 30 to 35 percent higher than our normal call volume and we’ve had some real mild winters
where we’ve been significantly below those numbers but what’s driving the volume are car accidents.
Carbon monoxide. Mostly false alarms and just an increase in medicals with slips and falls and heart
related you know situations due to people shoveling real heavy snow so that’s my report for this month.
I’ll take any questions if there are any.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any questions for Chief Wolff this evening? No? Very good. We’re
hoping you’re wrong on the 6 weeks of winter.
Chief John Wolff: I hope I am too. I hate to be the bearer of.
Mayor Furlong: Time will tell. Thank you Chief.
Chief John Wolff: Yep.
Mayor Furlong: Lieutenant Enevold is not here, nor is anyone else from the sheriff’s office. Something
may have come up, which happens. I guess I would ask if anyone has any questions from the report that
was included in our packet for Mr. Gerhardt. We can pass that along to Lieutenant Enevold. Otherwise
we can follow with him at our next meeting or the next meeting he comes to which will be the end of
March. Any questions at this time for Mr. Gerhardt to pass along? No? Okay. Thank you. Let’s move
on then to the next item on our agenda.
CONSIDER THE REMOVAL OF THE BARRICADE BETWEEN KIOWA TRAIL AND
SPINRGFIELD DRIVE.
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Mayor Furlong: This is an item that’s coming to us this evening. At our January 27 meeting a motion
with regard to the street improvements was tabled. That will come back tonight later on our agenda but
there was a request to direct, or to have this issue dealt with directly and independently of the street
project so with that we will have, get a staff report then with regard to this item and, we had an extensive
public hearing at the last meeting with regard to the Kiowa street project. Much of that discussion related
to this issue on the barrier. I don’t expect that we need a repeat of what happened there but certainly after
we get a staff report some questions from council to staff, we’ll certainly listen to some public comment
on that as well so we’ll get to that in a minute but Mr. Gerhardt, let’s start with a staff report on this issue.
Or Mr. Oehme, are you going to be presenting it? Thank you.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 24, 2014
Paul Oehme: Just kind of a brief presentation here on the discussion before you tonight for the Kiowa
Trail barricade or connection. Just a little background on the discussion and moving forward with the
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project with this item. Back in December 12 staff did meet with the neighborhood, Springfield and
discuss the proposed barricade removal and kind of informed them about the background of this item.
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And then again on January 27 as you recall we did hold a public hearing for the street reconstruction
project and Kiowa Trail improvements and the removal of the barricade was discussed at that time, and as
the Mayor indicated those two items are now separated. At that meeting too we did discuss a little bit
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about the language in the Springfield 2 Addition development contract. That was back in January 23,
1998 referencing the barricade being temporary until residents petition the city to remove that barricade
or when 212 is constructed, and the Springfield development chronology, that information with the
development contract and some of the Minutes involved with City Council’s approval back then is at the
table at the sign in sheet too for anyone that wishes to have a copy of that information. And then on
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February 5 city staff did meet with residents of Springfield, Kiowa Drive and Kiowa Trail
neighborhoods to discuss the traffic calming options and if the barricade were to be removed. At that
meeting it was perfectly clear to city staff that the neighborhood reiterated that their request that the
barricade be left up at that time. At this time. We did talk about traffic, speed study that was also done.
Completed back in October, 2013. Just here are some of the numbers. I think some of these numbers
were also in the staff report. Average speeds around 24 miles an hour through the Springfield Drive area,
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next to the park in the 85 percentile which is typically would set the speed limit for streets for state
statue is right around 28 miles per hour. Some of the items that staff and the neighborhoods did discuss if
the barricade were to come down, some traffic calming items. One item that was discussed was putting a
traffic circle at the current location at Kiowa Trail and Springfield Drive. It’s just basically a raised
median to allow, to deviate traffic from just going straight through an area. They can make the driver
make a right movement. Slows them down and it also, yeah slows the traffic down. It can be
aesthetically pleasing too. Center line striping was also discussed at Springfield Park. This would
channelize traffic to basically the curb line narrowing the road giving the driver a sense that the road is
narrower, which typically leads to slower speeds in these type of situations as well so this is something
that could be considered at low cost in the Springfield Park area. Signs were also discussed to be
implemented, especially by the Springfield Park. Playground signs on each side of the park and then also
speed advisory signs coming around the curve by the park was also discussed. The curve there is
approximately a 25 miles an hour curve so advisory speeds for that curve would be justified or warranted.
Other traffic calming measures that were discussed were no parking on one side of the Springfield Drive
area by the park. We felt that not everybody in the Springfield area was supportive of that since there’s a
lot of people that drive to the park in the Springfield Drive neighborhood. They kind of like parking in
that area. Parking on both sides of the road also too does limit traffic or slows the traffic down. Can be
considered a traffic calming measure as well too. Reducing the speed limit, based upon the traffic study
that the staff did take, we don’t think MnDOT and the State of Minnesota would be supportive of
lowering the speed limit in this area just based upon the speeds that we have documented. We did talk
about extending the sidewalk down to, from Springfield Drive down to Bandimere Park on the west side
of Kiowa Trail. We did, I think the neighbors, especially in Kiowa Trail see a safety benefit for extending
that sidewalk down since it doesn’t extend all the way down the entire length of Kiowa Trail down to 101
so that item was tabled. Pedestrian crosswalks were also talked about. Staff is going to be looking at
crosswalks at Lyman Boulevard from Springfield Drive to the north to the Reflections development. That
might be, might need to put a crosswalk there just because of the park at that location there and there
seems to be more pedestrian movements at that location. We also talked about raised medians along
Springfield Drive and then also increased police patrols in the area as well. So that’s basically I think a
summary of what was discussed on with traffic calming. If council does decide to direct staff to
implement any of these improvements, I think it’s still would be important for staff to monitor the
effectiveness of each of these improvements and make changes as necessary. Monitoring would include
you know like traffic counts. Observations. Effectiveness of implementations items and then also police
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Chanhassen City Council – February 24, 2014
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patrols as well. So that’s a brief summary of our meeting on February 25. If there’s any questions for
staff at this time be more than happy to try to answer them.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any questions for staff on this aspect?
Councilman Laufenburger: I do Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Mr. Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Thank you Paul. Just a few questions. There is a stop sign, when you’re
traveling east on Lyman and you make a right turn on Springfield there’s a stop sign kind of at the bottom
of the entrance where the divided is. Is that customary to put a stop sign at that point and can you talk a
little bit about that?
Paul Oehme: Stop signs should be warranted so there is a methodology or protocol that you have to
typically go through for placing stop signs. At that specific location where there’s a stop sign there, I’m
not sure if it is warranted. It’s been there since the development was in place is my understanding so
we’re not looking at changing that stop sign at this time but I think coming into the neighborhood with
that stop condition it does you know potentially would slow the traffic down as they go through the
neighborhood.
Councilman Laufenburger: It would certainly indicate, it would remove any question that anybody would
have that they’re entering a residential area.
Paul Oehme: Residential area, correct.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. You spoke about the speed signs but just to clarify if, are there any
restrictions for us to put yellow, like 25 miles per hour or whatever they might be like that?
Paul Oehme: Yep.
Councilman Laufenburger: Yeah, is there any restriction that the State would have on us from doing that?
Paul Oehme: No, these are advisory signs so they’re typically not enforceable so it’s, the agencies, at the
agency’s discretion to put these signs in or where they think it’s warranted.
Councilman Laufenburger: And what counsel would they give us regarding the effectiveness of these
signs? They meaning MnDOT or public safety division.
Paul Oehme: I think it depends upon the situation. Depends upon the severity of the curve and what the
situation is like…
Councilman Laufenburger: But there’s certainly no reason why we couldn’t put them in place?
Paul Oehme: Not that I’m aware of right now.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Alright. Let’s see. You, oh the speed study you conducted. Was that
speed study conducted only during the time that the barrier was done and the access to 101 from Kiowa
Trail was in place?
Paul Oehme: I believe it was.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 24, 2014
Councilman Laufenburger: So we don’t really have a comparison on what the speed of the vehicles was
either before or after the barrier was taken down. All we know is the speed when the barrier is down, is
that right?
Paul Oehme: That’s correct.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. And then one last question. There’s discussion around the 500
vehicles per day. The statement in the staff report says if the connection is opened Springfield Drive trips
are estimated to increase to 500 vehicles today and if I recall, wish I could remember his name. Mr.
Sohrweide?
Paul Oehme: Correct. Sohrweide.
Councilman Laufenburger: Yeah, he talked about that that was a conservative. It was like an average and
even the accuracy of that average is difficult to measure because the numbers are so small, is that correct?
Am I saying that correct?
Paul Oehme: That’s correct.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. So if it’s 300 vehicles per day by the Springfield Park, going in either
direction when the barrier’s in place, and then it goes to 500 vehicles per day, you know again accuracy is
in question but one would assume that those 200 vehicles would be made up of both cars traveling
northbound from 101 or Kiowa, and also traveling southbound from areas in Springfield and even across
Lyman and Reflections or in the North Bay and all of that area, is that correct?
Paul Oehme: Correct. It’s not potentially cut through traffic that we’re talking about. It’s potentially
neighborhood traffic generated between the two.
Councilman Laufenburger: But it could be cut through traffic.
Paul Oehme: But it could be cut through traffic as well, correct.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Do we have any measure of the exact number of vehicles that went
through that area when the barrier was done and the entrance to 101 was closed? The exact number of
vehicle count per day.
Paul Oehme: For example Kiowa Trail, I think we had, in the staff report we had indicated it was about
200 trips per day. I know those trips going up into Springfield were averaging about 160 trips so just for
reference we rounded up again to 200 trips per day for that situation.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay, so in that situation when the people on Kiowa had no opportunity to
exit to 101, that traffic count was roughly 200 vehicles. Or an estimate.
Paul Oehme: And estimate of 200 and what we found the traffic per day was about 160.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay.
Paul Oehme: But in the staff report and the traffic analysis we rounded it up to 200.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Thank you Paul for that clarification. Thank you Mr. Mayor.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 24, 2014
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Other questions for staff at this point? Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: Mr. Mayor, this is more of a question I think for you or our attorney. Just as a
formality, is the disposition of the original proposal that Councilman Laufenburger made, is that still as
the original motion? And I know we talked about separating the two projects.
Mayor Furlong: No, for clarification that will be brought up under unfinished business. We’re in new
business. This is a new item.
Councilwoman Ernst: Okay. Alright. Okay.
Mayor Furlong: So even though it was addressed at length.
Councilwoman Ernst: Okay.
Mayor Furlong: When that item was talked about so we’re not discussing his motion at this point.
Councilwoman Ernst: Okay.
Mayor Furlong: This is a new item so.
Councilwoman Ernst: I just heard it separated and that’s why I questioned it.
Mayor Furlong: Nope, and that’s fine. No, that’s good clarification. Any other questions for staff at this
point? Mr. Gerhardt, Mr. Oehme, couple questions. Following up first on Mr. Laufenburger’s comments
about traffic count. Typical residential street or residential streets in these neighborhoods, what would be
the expected level of, normal expected level of traffic that would still operate a safe condition from an
engineering point of view?
Paul Oehme: Sure. So normal standards for local residential roadways, it’s classified up to about 1,000
trips per day through MnDOT and Met Council. That’s typically their defining level of local trips. Local
traffic on residential roads.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Thank you. And then one of the items mentioned in the staff report, and this was
brought up at our last meeting when the discussion moved towards this item, was the statement in the
Comprehensive Plan referring to this barrier between the Kiowa and Springfield roads and also Mr.
Gerhardt, you had some information regarding the development contract as well.
Todd Gerhardt: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: Could you speak to that please?
Todd Gerhardt: Paul could you bring up your slide. In the slide the chronology that sits over on the sign
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in table showed that on March 23 that the development contract referenced the barricade to be temporary
until area residents petition the city to open the connection or when Trunk Highway 212 is constructed,
and in the packet it has a variety of different Minutes that led up to that. You almost need a road map to
follow it all but it started back in 1993 and was completed back with the second phase of the Springfield
development.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 24, 2014
Mayor Furlong: So the information that’s in the Comprehensive Plan is consistent with the development
contract that was approved back in ’98?
Todd Gerhardt: It’s almost the exact same language.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you.
Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Furlong: Follow up question?
Councilman Laufenburger: Just point of clarification. It’s this, the language that is in the, call it the
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chronology, that’s the language that I referenced on January 27.
Mayor Furlong: I think that’s right.
Councilman Laufenburger: Yeah that’s the, and that’s the language that I quoted from so it was
previously introduced in my comments and now reinforced by the exact language that Mr. Gerhardt is
providing.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Thank you. Any other questions for staff at this point?
Councilwoman Ernst: I’m sorry.
Mayor Furlong: Yes, Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: Paul can you tell me when we’re talking about the circles with the landscaping, is
that, can you, do you have any kind of data that really I guess talks to the idea that this really slows traffic
and if so how much? Do you have any kind of a, any kind of data on that?
Paul Oehme: I think they’re, for these traffic they’re, they kind of just relate to existing conditions or
what exact parameters are currently out in the field. It’s going to vary from neighborhood to
neighborhood I think in terms of traffic calming or how much traffic is going to be diverted from these
areas. Intuitively you know when you’re slowing traffic down in these type of situations I think if you’re
not in the neighborhood or live in the neighborhood, I think it’s going to discourage people from going
through the neighborhoods I think because it does slow you down. It’s kind of a nuisance to get around.
You’re going to have to pay attention a little bit more to navigate around these type of improvements so
you know I think it’s a good, good item to consider for this type of application.
Councilwoman Ernst: Okay, thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Mr. McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: Let me follow up on that because at the last meeting we had a discussion about
that. I’m under the impression that again at the boundary between the neighborhoods, that was where we
initially talked about a traffic circle and what we came out with was that the concern is further in to the
development up around the park and at that point what I believe I heard was, that traffic circle will have
no impact on any speed at that point so you know at that time I questioned the utility of why would we
just put one traffic circle in. Is that, am I correct that we’re not really getting a lot of bang for our buck to
just put a traffic circle in where the two cul-de-sacs come together?
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Chanhassen City Council – February 24, 2014
Paul Oehme: You know I think it helps delineate the, between the two neighborhoods. You know if the
Kiowa Trail improvements go forward, that roadway is a lot narrower than Springfield is so I think the
roadway width in Kiowa Trail does help the traffic circle and keep the traffic slow down and calmed in
that area and with the curvy roads and the hill in that area as well. As we move off to the Springfield
Drive, the park, we are looking for other you know tools in that tool box to look for traffic calming. One
is you know we talked about striping that section of roadway next to the park. Try to narrow that
roadway lane down as much as you can. Try to give the feeling that the driver’s enclosed or it’s a narrow
section of roadway so that’s another tool that we’re looking at for, to try to slow the traffic down in the
Springfield neighborhood. And then also the signage too. You know just making sure that people are
aware that there is a park in this area and there’s an advisory sign. The sign advising the driver that, you
know to slow down for the curve that’s coming ahead too so. Especially if people aren’t familiar with the
neighborhood I think some of these improvements would help mitigate some of these situations of
speeding and in the neighborhood.
Councilman McDonald: Okay but if I read your report correctly, if you go and do the striping at the areas
where we need it you’re going to have to give up the parking and as I understood there was a strong
reluctance against giving up parking around the park so the trade off is, okay we could put a median in.
Now you’ve inconvenienced people who live in the neighborhood who before would have parked on the
side of the road there.
Paul Oehme: Yeah, so I mean I think the striping can go along with still parking within the
neighborhood. You know the striping where we’re thinking about would not discourage or you know get
away from, have people parking in this section of roadway. The through traffic can still go around the
park traffic and over some of the striped areas. It’s just in the times when there’s no parking out there, I
think that’s where the striping is, you know gets the best bang for the buck where the road is, travel lane
is narrower and it helps to slow the traffic down.
Councilman McDonald: Okay. Thank you for clarifying that.
Mayor Furlong: Other questions? Mr. Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Yes, thank you Mr. Mayor. Paul, you’ve identified the cost to put in the
traffic circle. I think you just, I don’t want to misquote you. What was the cost to put in a traffic circle?
Paul Oehme: About $1,500.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. So let’s say $1,500. Does that mean the cost to remove it if it proves
to be ineffective is likewise?
Paul Oehme: It would probably be about the same ballpark. If we remove it, it would probably be done
by staff. Staff’s time so and just the cost of pavement.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Alright, there was one more thing that was brought up by one of the
residents and I think it’s a good idea but it’s not in the staff report. I don’t know if it wasn’t you know
sharply communicated but the notion that perhaps a, on Lyman for east and westbound Lyman right at the
Springfield Drive entrance put a sign there that says, like westbound Lyman. No left turn into Springfield
during hours 7:00 to 9:00 in order to control and restrict the notion of cut through traffic. Has there been
any discussion amongst staff about that?
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Chanhassen City Council – February 24, 2014
Paul Oehme: Staff, we did talk about it a little bit and you know it’s something we can consider. I don’t
think it’s high on the staff’s list of things that we want to look at at this time. I think it’s another tool in
the tool box. Maybe down the road we could look at that.
Councilman Laufenburger: From a public safety standpoint is that enforceable? If there was a sign.
Paul Oehme: Right and that’s the problem I think too. To enforce a no left turn into a certain
neighborhood, you almost have to park a police car out there during a lot of those, that time so I think it’s
from an operational standpoint or a, you know enforcement standpoint it’s going to be very difficult at
times to make that work.
Councilman Laufenburger: And I do remember the discussion, if I remember it correctly, that a sign like
that may even draw attention to something that ooh, they don’t want us to cut through here. It must be a
good idea. Okay. Alright, thanks Paul.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, any other questions for staff at this time? If not then, as I mentioned even though
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we had extensive public hearing at the last meeting, or excuse me our meeting on the 27. Much of it
related to this. We’d certainly be open to public comment for those who wish to speak. We’ll take 15
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minutes or so for the public comment. Clearly there was a meeting with staff and residents on the 5 and
so we’d appreciate comments on that meeting. Also overall I mean we’ve had the, all of us were here for
the public hearing. We’ve had the Minutes of that meeting. We’ve received the emails and such so as
much as there’s new information that you’d like to share with us, that’s what we’re mostly interested in
and certainly would give preference to those who didn’t speak at the last public hearing. Allow them to
speak first but at this point we’d be open for public comment. Anybody wishing to speak. Good evening.
Erika Messmer: Good evening. Thank you Mayor and City Council members. My name is Erika
Messmer. I’m a Springfield resident at 9140 Sunnyvale Drive. I’m here on behalf of the Springfield
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Homeowner’s Association board. On February 14 the Springfield Homeowner’s Board issued a letter to
the City expressing our position that we request the barrier between Springfield and the Kiowa
neighborhoods remain in place. I’m here today to reiterate the primary intent of our letter which was the
concern of the safety of our residents and the unequivocal support to keep the road barrier in place. We
were asking the staff to recommend that the barrier be maintained. Although we appreciate the City
taking the time to assess other options if the barrier were to be removed, we do not feel the options
presented are a comprehensive solution to the increased safety risks that would be created if the barrier
were not in place any longer. The options presented such as signage and road striping are primarily
reactive while the barrier has served as a proactive solution for a number of years. As a member of the
homeowner’s association we feel the safety of our family, friends and neighbors is a first priority and
leaving the barrier in place is the only way to insure this concern is addressed appropriately. As taxpayers
of the City of Chanhassen we also feel it’s the most fiscally responsible option to move forward. Now
that the barrier removal as it’s own vote, we feel voting to leave it in place would overall not be a
significant change to the city development and would relieve the safety concerns of an overwhelming
majority of our neighborhoods. Thank you for allowing me to speak.
Mayor Furlong: You’re welcome. Thank you.
Pam Morley: My name is Pam Morley and I live at 9143 Springfield Drive and I apologize and I really
wasn’t planning on speaking today but will now. I’ve been moved to. This is the fourth meeting I’ve
attended regarding the Springfield barrier and I live almost directly apart from the pool. Across from the
pool. One area of concern I have is I don’t think that anyone here has been down in the Springfield pool
area during the summer when they have actually seen all the kids out playing. All the people at the pool.
All the people you know enjoying the outside. I typically drive between 7 and 10 miles per hour when I
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Chanhassen City Council – February 24, 2014
drive through that area because I know it is such a risk and that is the speed I’ve instructed my teenage
daughter to drive as well. And the speed which I’ve told other people who have teenagers that they
should be expected to drive. My kids know, we know about the concerns. We know about the dangers
that could exist in this area and a lot of people who will be using it as a cut through do not know of these
concerns. A motor vehicle versus a child accident would have catastrophic events. When I was a child,
when I was growing up, my next door neighbor actually ran over another neighbor’s kid. A busy street
going onto a dead end road and my neighbor killed the boy that lived on the corner. It was terrible for the
entire neighborhood. Both families lived there for a couple years longer but my neighbor’s house was
egged. Their business was boycotted and they eventually moved away. It destroyed everybody so why
would we have a solution that works. Granted something catastrophic can always happen but we have
something that works. Why dramatically increase the risks of having someone be seriously injured or
killed? I work as a ICU tele nurse at Abbott-Northwest Hospital. I see directly people who find out when
they get to the hospital their loved one is dead. I work with that every day. I just can’t understand why
we would take a solution that works. Doesn’t make everything okay but makes things a lot safer just for
the neighborhood. I don’t care about keeping Springfield private. I don’t want to live in a gated
community. I don’t want to keep people out. I just want to keep our neighborhood safe. Thank you very
much.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. If we could please restrain from applause I’d appreciate it. Thank
you. Please.
Curt Kobilarcsik: Mr. Mayor, members of the council. Curt Kobilarcsik, 9149 Springfield Drive.
There’s a couple things I’d like to touch on. One is a piece of new information. I think it’s been
mentioned previously this evening. It’s the Minutes from the December 13, 1993 City Council meeting.
There was an item on the final plat approval for the Springfield development. I think what I’d like to do
is just briefly go through the Minutes just to get a flavor of that meeting and just how this decision was
made originally so I’m just going to go through and just do a few of the comments that were made at that
meeting. So for instance one of the council members brings up you know what happened on the issue of
that street cut through, so the terminology was back then as well and those council members noticed and
acknowledged that there was a cut through and several of these have used the term cut through in their
discussion here so. He asked what happened on the issue of that street cut through. I heard from a
number of neighbors down there that were opposed to the cut through so that was an item from a council
member. An item from a city staff was, you know Kiowa’s kind of a shortcut to get down to Pioneer and
we went back and forth about it and said they’re probably right so we said we agree and at least the
Planning Commission find it so that the issue should come back up when 212 is completed. Then he
mentions you know I don’t recall that the Planning Commission actually took action on that denial of the
plat and city staff mentions the only motion to approve has the cul-de-sac going down Kiowa instead of
being automatically reverted to open up after 212. A next comment of interest is from a resident. One of
the problems that was brought out at the last, at the Planning Commission meeting was the fact that at the
time they were planning on extending down through Kiowa Trail. It mentions that people from the new
development on the west side of the lake, and also Lakeview apartments would be cruising down through
this development and going down Kiowa Trail so very clear that there were several concerns back then.
A note from the developer, or from the property owner saying the only opposition I’ve heard is to the
through streets. Another council member, you know so that’s not the only issue here as far as I’m
concerned. The Kiowa Trail thing, since I’ve been on council, if people haven’t wanted a road to go
through there, I think we figured out a way not to put that road through or to put up a barricade. Another
council member later on in the discussion says, I agree that there should be no Kiowa access. I can see
people tearing up Highway 101 and cutting through. After that the mayor says I’ve got to just ditto what
that previous council member said so I’ve just got to ditto what the council member said because that was
most of my comments that she said so. Another council member comes up with back to back cul-de-sacs.
I don’t like them. This back to back thing with these barriers. I think that’s an eyesore and atrocious.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 24, 2014
Either connect it or don’t. If we’re not gonna, I’d just leave the cul-de-sac as is and put a cul-de-sac in
accordingly. So what I’m seeing there is that they were going to vote on that that night. At least 3 out of
the 5 council members were going to say do not connect Kiowa to Springfield and possibly 4 council
members back at that point in time in the evening that this was decided back in 1993. Then there was a
motion to approve the preliminary PUD and the preliminary plat approval as well. This was approved
subject to the following conditions. Condition number 19 is, this kind of goes to Councilmember
Laufenburger’s point at the last council meeting about this being temporary until construction is done and
then removed. This is the point number 19 here. During the construction of each phase temporary turn
around’s shall be provided on all dead-end streets which are proposed to be extended. Barricades shall be
placed at the end of the temporary turn around’s with a sign indicating that this street shall be extended in
the future. So that’s a correct statement. I mean but this was for all streets impacted by the project. They
should all have, this is a construction note here that you know they should all have this barricade in until
construction is completed. But another one of the stipulations is stipulation number 30 that overrides this
in construction stipulation here. Stipulation 30. Back to back cul-de-sacs shall be provided at the Kiowa
Trail connection. The pavement for the northern cul-de-sac shall be installed to the project property line.
A break away barricade shall be installed to prohibit through traffic on Kiowa Trail. The cul-de-sacs shall
be temporary until either area residents petition the City to open the connection or Highway 212 is
constructed at which time traffic patterns will be changed. So item 30 provides a more permanent
solution so I just wanted to respond to what I had found in relation to Mr. Laufenburger’s, or Councilman
Laufenburger’s comment at the last, at the last City Council meeting. My next item is, it’s kind of a point
of clarification or from the last City Council meeting. At that meeting it got a little bit confusing as far as
kind of the focus of some of the larger issues of reasons for leaving the barrier in place and I think it got a
little bit confusing as far as when we would mention safety. I think some folks thought maybe it was
safety with, like a criminal type safety but it’s actually a traffic safety type safety so I wanted to just
review with you quickly an email I have sent to the council and to staff. I sent it originally on February
thth
4 and then I re-sent it on February 18 as well and these were the reasons for leaving the barrier in place
so number one, traffic volumes. If the barrier’s removed an additional 400 plus households, which the
existing 53 households could potentially use Kiowa Trail and Springfield Drive. The City study indicated
an increase from 200 vehicles per day to 500 vehicles per day. It will likely be more. The second item,
traffic speeds. As witnessed last summer by neighbors traffic speeds increased with the opening of the
th
barrier. The 85 percentile speed of 28.4 miles per hour is concerning for this type of residential street.
With the curvature and so many residences along the route. This is not safe especially with the
neighborhood park and swimming pool along the route. Third item. Traffic safety. The
Kiowa/Springfield shortcut contains a large number of residential driveways. 43 driveways along that
route. Residential street, high density. It’s a significant amount of conflicts that we are introducing for
each additional traffic that goes along that roadway. If you vote for the barrier to be removed you’re
making this residential street less safe for 43 families. Creates cut through traffic. This has been
discussed in the past but I just want to reiterate it. The Kiowa/Springfield shortcut’s a shorter distance by
.4 miles plus less time by 90 seconds. That equals cut through traffic. If you look at a map of the area it
is very apparent that this route will be used for cut through. The City Comprehensive Plan states that
residential street systems should be designed to discourage cut through traffic through neighborhoods. If
you vote for the removal of the barrier you’re promoting cut through traffic. Not discouraging it.
Residential street connections. I agree with residential street connections but not in this particular
instance with, in this case the opening of the barrier creating a shortcut from a busy county highway to an
area of high density development. This is a unique situation in our community. At the neighborhood
meeting Mr. Gerhardt had brought up some examples in the city of similar type situations but we really
couldn’t find a similar situation to what we have as far as the barricades. Resident input. You know the
impacted neighborhoods, Kiowa and Springfield quote, benefiting from the removal of the barrier have
voted against the removal of the barrier by a vote of 140 to 1. The residents have spoken and the
residents are concerned about the safety of our street. The third item that I have just briefly.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 24, 2014
Mayor Furlong: Very briefly please. I want to make sure everybody gets a chance to talk within the
timeframe that we’re.
Curt Kobilarcsik: Okay. Yep. This was in response to the neighborhood meeting that we had that Paul
and Mr. Gerhardt had led and just a response to that. I think if you do several of these different things I
think, like add striping on Springfield Drive to slow down traffic. You know I can’t envision striping on
this neighborhood street. It would seem out of place and bring extra attention to this issue so I’d prefer
the city to use striping as a means of, would not prefer the city use striping as a means of controlling
traffic speeds. Rumble strips were mentioned. These would be too loud for the neighbors. Speed bumps.
Discussed but the city does not believe this to be an option. Traffic circles and roundabout’s…traffic
circles is not a global solution for this situation. Traffic circles are not the solution for this neighborhood.
Additional signing. I think it’s wrong to have the safety of our neighborhood street need to be controlled
by signage and police officers to enforce the signs. I’m concerned about that. So I appreciate the council
directing staff to study potential options. I think staff did a great job but I think it’s a very complicated
area that we have there so.
Mayor Furlong: Alright.
Curt Kobilarcsik: With that thank you for your time and look forward to hearing your comments.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you.
Curt Kobilarcsik: Alright.
Jamie Heilicher: I’ll make this fairly quick. Jamie Heilicher. 9280 Kiowa Trail. I’ve got two short
comments. One, I think it’s interesting that the barrier was really put in place for the only benefit. The
only people that will really benefit from using that cut through will be the residents of Springfield. They
benefit the most. That gives them the shortest shortcut through Kiowa Trail to 101 south and it’s
interesting that they unanimously are opposed that cut through. People from Reflections and up north of
that, you know that’s a true cut through that they shouldn’t be allowed to do but the people that benefit
the most would be the people from Springfield cutting through Kiowa. There’s no reason for Kiowa
residents to move north through Springfield. Only Springfield residents to move through Kiowa to get to
101 and it’s interesting that they’re not petitioning to open this barrier up as the prior council had
suggested that somebody would be petitioning to open it up as opposed to petitioning to keep it closed.
The second is more of a personal nature. I walk Kiowa Trail on a regular basis with my dog and I’ve
gotten to know my neighbors very well on Kiowa Trail and I plan to continue to walk down Kiowa Trail
and visit my neighbors that are playing out front and on their barbeques and so forth. My biggest concern
is that as traffic increases my comfort level of walking on Kiowa Trail may diminish. Now I’m going to
walk on Kiowa Trail anyways but at some point I may find myself so uncomfortable with this added 300
cars that I’m being told are going to be you know moving up and down Kiowa Trail and I’m going to find
myself no longer walking up Kiowa Trail. Walking only into the park where it’s safer and losing
connection with a neighborhood that I’m very fond of that I’ve been there for 28 years and the way I’ve
gotten to know my neighbors is walking by and stopping and talking. Not by driving by so I truly hope
that all of you understand that this is not a benefit to our community to bring the barrier down and it will
change our neighborhood to the negative. Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you.
Fred Souza: My name is Fred Souza, 9150 Springfield Drive. First I just want to thank Todd, our city
manager for listening to what the neighborhood had to say about trying to separate this into two
components and the neighborhood respects and appreciates that. I’m going to be extremely brief. We
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Chanhassen City Council – February 24, 2014
talked a lot about calming for traffic issues and to my point is that line striping, as the 17 year old high
school student at the city meeting enlightened us all that when the road is covered with snow that kind of
limits the options for effectiveness. And again this isn’t necessarily about the calming traffic. It’s not
about trying to create a private community. It’s about the safety of the neighborhood. You know there’s
been suggestions. It was unfortunate, fortunately or unfortunately how you look at it, there was a plethora
of email traffic today. Some comments were being sent back that there were residents that support the
barrier coming down. From my perspective on the Springfield side, an overwhelming majority, 80% of
the neighborhood wants the partition down. The 20% that didn’t respond, didn’t respond to phone calls,
emails, knocks on the door so the majority of the neighborhood wants it out. Wants the barrier to remain.
100% of the residents on Springfield Drive want the barrier to stay. I would welcome if anybody is here
that would support removing the barrier from a resident perspective to please to let that be heard. I just
think that there’s an overwhelming. I don’t think, I know. An overwhelming majority of the residents
that are impacted the most, and this isn’t about we don’t want people driving down our streets as was kind
of painted in the last council meeting. That’s absolutely not accurate. We want anyone in the city of
Chanhassen, anyone in the state of Mass, Minnesota.
Mayor Furlong: You did it tonight.
Fred Souza: I was in Boston this weekend looking for road calming episodes. We don’t want to make it
look like we’re trying to be elitist and not open the neighborhood. That’s not true. Again I’m going to
ask, for those City Council members that were supporting us at the last meeting, I encourage and would
appreciate that support again. For the two city councilors and the mayor that I believe were maybe on the
fence, I implore you to listen to the city. The residents of Chanhassen and Kiowa Trail and support us
and don’t, don’t change something that’s working fine. Thanks.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you.
Matt Mason: Hi everybody. Matt Mason, 9198 Springfield. I’m the frustrated, confused, mad as hell
guy from email today. Just two quick comments. Going through this, I’ve heard the plan brought up a
lot. I’ve seen the plan on these monitors and when we talk about the plan, there are two things that are in
there, right? Everyone mentions hey, it’s supposed to come out. It says it’s supposed to come out when
the highway came down or was finished and I never understood the connection there. I’ve never heard
anyone here tell us what the connection is. But I think when we mentioned that, that you know hey it’s
supposed to come down. It also clearly states in there it was supposed to discourage cut through so I
would think that when you talk about one you’ve got to talk about the other at the same time. And then
once the public portion of this closed, I would just love to hear each and every one of you that has a vote,
give us your opinion on the safest solution for our neighborhood. Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Okay, anyone else on this item? Okay, thank you. With that, unless there’s
any objection we’ll close the public comment and bring it back to council for additional questions or
comments. Mr. McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: Thank you Mr. Mayor. I’ve given this a lot of thought and there was a lot of
things said at the last meeting that I have followed up on and the last gentleman that was up here, your
emails did intrigue me somewhat. I did check into it. There’s a part of all of this, and again what amazed
me is, this started in November of 1993 and it took until July of 1998. Almost 5 years to come to the plan
that they had which stipulated the completion of 212 or if the neighborhood wanted to petition. What’s
missing in all of that, and one of the gentleman brought it up, it was the Lakeview Apartments. I lived
here back then and I kind of forgot about all of that. I also forgot about what 101 used to look like and at
the time the Lakeview Apartments were a big problem and that was the best route to get down to Pioneer
and to 212. 212 was to the south of you. Now it’s to the north of you and because of the type of traffic
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Chanhassen City Council – February 24, 2014
that was coming through there, that was why this was so difficult a decision to reach by council. The
residents. I mean this goes back to a fight over Springfield’s plat. There was a whole thing there about
you know are we going to allow this or what restrictions do we put on this. There was a lot of discussion
over a 5 year period on this whole issue and the compromise that was reached again centered around 212.
It talks about new traffic patterns. What was envisioned was again 212 would create a new traffic pattern.
Also 101 being fixed would create a new traffic pattern. Lyman Boulevard. All of these things were in
the works to be changed. What has happened since then is that we have fixed Lyman to some extent. We
fixed 101. We’re improving it even more as we speak but the whole thing is the circumstances that
existed back then, when you talk about cut through, that’s what they were talking about were those
apartments. Not the cut through that you talk about today. It was a different type of cut through and it
was almost a coded message for the types of traffic that would be coming through the neighborhoods and
it was great concern about that. Great concern. And I’d forgotten all about that because you know when
those apartments were torn down and everything kind of changed, it changed the whole landscape of the
area and of the neighborhood and it really kind of quiten the whole area so when we talk about cut
through, that’s what we were doing. What was to try to keep that neighborhood from becoming a through
route down to Pioneer Trail which at that point was more of a major highway than it is today and also it
got you down the hill to 212 which at that point was also the major road going back and forth. That
would be the easiest way to get into the Twin Cities back in those days. So I look at all of this. I re-read
the meeting minutes. Part of what I was looking for was again, is there another compelling reason that
has not been brought up. You have brought up every reason that was in this discussion for 5 years and it
is not new issues. We deal with it on every road, every street within this city. People come to us
constantly worried about safety of their roads and I’ve checked on this. There have been no children
injured. There have been no accidents. Most of the problems we have with speeding are usually teenage
drivers who live in the neighborhood. It is not outsiders that come into these neighborhoods and go
speeding through them and causing a great safety concerns. Cities learn how to deal with those things.
You know if there are problems we do put extra patrols in place and pretty soon people get the message
that yeah, you’d better watch your speed going through here so we’re very protective of all the
neighborhoods. We’ve addressed all the other issues. The whole thing about traffic and the increase in
traffic, I mean truthfully we don’t have a good handle on that and we don’t have a good handle on it
because it’s such a small number that all they’re doing is guessing. It is not unlike again, I’ve heard these
same numbers on all other roads. You talk about you being unique. Longacres is fairly close to your
situation. Between 41 and coming over to Century Boulevard. There was a lot of concern at that point
that that was going to become the shortcut to get into town because when you draw the lines out and stuff,
that was the shorter way to get over to town and also to some of the other developments. Hadn’t panned
out. There is not that big increase and bump in traffic that we were told was going to happen there. Most
people driving back and forth, they don’t want to go through your neighborhoods anyway. You’re right,
you’ve got to slow down. There’s a lot of risk. There’s kids. Everybody knows that lives in this
community or most of the people that visit the community know that there’s kids in these neighborhoods
and most of these people have got children. You bring up the accident. That was a tragic accident and I
can understand where everybody would be very affected by that. That just hasn’t happened here so I have
not heard the compelling reason why your situation is different from any others. We have made, again
this whole policy of the interconnection and neighborhoods. That’s in the comp plan. That was
discussed. It was talked about. It was agreed that for a city wide objective that’s what we should be
doing is opening up neighborhoods. Allowing people the free movement of people back and forth
between areas. It will benefit the schools. They won’t have to do a bus that goes up and around. They
can redo routes. They’ve actually been in here before, talked about other neighborhoods. About the
benefit of geez, if you would just connect here or take this down we could save a mile or so as far as the
school bus routes. You also talked about delivery people. Well they’re coming into your neighborhood
because they’ve got packages for you. I mean that’s a convenience so that you can get something and it’s
the City’s job to make sure that we have the infrastructure in place so that those things can take place so
that’s all we’re doing and that’s what the policy is all about is fine, we will make it easy for people to
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Chanhassen City Council – February 24, 2014
come into our community. Conduct business. Provide services to our residents and to do that. We’re not
up here to harm your children. Believe me we hear that a lot. When the apartments came through we
were told we were going to kill children then too. It doesn’t happen. There is not a person up here that
would put your child at risk. I have 4 children. I understand what you’re talking about. It just, history
does not bare out some of these fears and again going back and looking at this, taking 5 years to reach this
conclusion and the whole reason why was because again we didn’t want to create a cut through for the
apartments down to Pioneer, down to 212. That was the reason for it. Those circumstances no longer
exist so I think what’s happened is again the time has come to you know take this barrier down.
Everyone’s been on notice since 1998 when the agreement was reached that it was going to happen and
the only thing that we were waiting for was 212, 101. Those roads. Those traffic patterns needed to be
improved or you could come before and say hey, we want the barrier taken down. 212 arrived. It is now
time I think to go forward with the contract and the agreement as it was and what I can tell you is that
tonight I would be in favor of taking the barrier down. Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you Mr. McDonald. Other comments? Discussion. Mr. Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Sure, thank you Mr. Mayor. I have prepared some comments ahead of time
and it’s really for my benefit. Not because I reached a conclusion a long time ago. I just, my desire is to
speak clearly and to speak the words that have been ruminating in my head for at least I don’t know, 2-3
months. Trying to figure out exactly what to say. So I’ve listened carefully to your words tonight and in
previous council meetings. I’ve carefully read your emails, the petitions. I’ve listened to your arguments.
Your passion and I’ve learned from all of you. As a result I’ve changed my mind about the presentation
of this issue at council level. I now agree that it is appropriate to separate the disposition of the barrier
from the decision on the street improvements for Kiowa Trail. Now I’m not certain about this next thing
but I sense that, I just have this feeling that unless I convey agreement with you about leaving the barrier
in place, that you prefer not to hear what I have to say. But even so I have a public duty to share what I
believe to be true so here’s what I believe to be true. The barrier was originally put in place by the
Mancino council in 1998 as a temporary, as temporary but not for purposes of long term public safety.
Not to reduce cut through traffic but for the purpose of prohibiting construction related traffic from
entering the development site by way of either 101 or Kiowa Trail. Number two. I believe that the
ambiguity of the language regarding the circumstances as to when the barrier was to be removed and what
I will characterize as delinquency and lack of directed follow through by city leaders, this has contributed
to the confrontational situation that we’re in right now. And frankly to the extent that I am able or am
allowed to, I’m committed to prevent this situation from arising in the future anywhere else in the city.
Including the existing barriers or separations that exist on city streets today and I’ve looked at every one
of them including the Kiowa/Springfield trail barrier at least a dozen times in the last 3 months. Thirdly.
I believe that both neighborhoods have grown to consider the community experience that resulted from
the barrier’s presence as worthwhile, valuable and expected to continue into perpetuity though that was
not the original intent. I believe that the citizens of Springfield yes, observed a substantial change in
traffic patterns on their streets when the barrier was taken down last year. I get that and I understand why
that makes you so concerned but I also believe that the traffic patterns that you witnessed at that time are
not a valid predictor of what traffic will be in the future if and when the residents on Kiowa Trail, like Mr.
Heilicher, when they have two options to exit their neighborhood. Both 101 and Springfield Drive. I
believe that the traffic will increase as a result of a perceived shorter route to travel south on 101 or north
from 101 to Lyman. On spring to Lyman. But from my own experience, when I have driven on
Springfield Drive over the last 8 months there are so many elements that would make the road less
attractive than Lyman and 101, including the stop sign just 100 feet from the entrance on Springfield.
How many come to a full stop when they enter the neighborhood? The current narrow road resulting
from snowfalls. The curves in the road. All of those would make 101 and Lyman a much more attractive
route. I believe that both neighborhoods, Kiowa and Springfield have exercised meaningful diligence,
vigilance and neighborhood spirit to maintain a safe and friendly environment for yourselves and for the
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Chanhassen City Council – February 24, 2014
visitors to the neighborhood. I also believe that that same community spirit will continue uninterrupted
and undiminished as a result of any council action tonight. I believe both these neighborhoods will do the
best that they can to keep their communities vibrant, friendly and safe long after all of us are gone. Lastly
I believe there is much to be learned from this experience, both on the part of the council and on the part
of the community. For me personally I’ve learned from, and though you may not agree with this, I have
really appreciated all of the dialogue that I’ve had with each and every one of you and with some of you
repeated over and over and over. I know that we may not agree. However I can tell you that your
questions, your comments, they challenged me to think more deeply about this than I had ever anticipated
before. My only regret, and I’m not sure it’s a regret but the only thing that I could regret from all of this
is that there is a possibility that some of you may look on this council through the filter of this one
decision but I assure you there is so much more to your elected officials than this single vote. We are
your neighbors. We are advocates for the environment. For your children. For the opportunity to raise
your kids in a well planned community so please don’t let the outcome of this issue diminish your love
for or your investment in this community. Use it as a stepping stone to be further involved in all aspects
of a community. Service to Chanhassen. Schools. Community festivals. Civic organizations. Volunteer
groups. City commissions and so much more. Frankly this community needs you. Thank you Mr.
Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you Mr. Laufenburger. Other thoughts or comments?
Councilwoman Ernst: Sure.
Mayor Furlong: Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: Well I promise I won’t be as long as Councilman Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Who was counting?
Councilwoman Ernst: And actually I have to say that Councilman McDonald and Councilman
Laufenburger have really stated it very clearly so I’m not going to repeat some of the things that have
already been said and some of the things that were said in the previous meeting. But you know I want,
first off I want to say two things that I’m really disappointed in and the first thing is that you know the
mayor politely asked all of you to hold your applause and I was really disappointed to see that you
couldn’t respect that simple little request. But number two in regards to the project. I’m disappointed too
that there was no compromise with any of the options that staff presented. I know that they worked very
hard and diligent in order to really address your concerns with some of these options that they presented
so I was disappointed in that and once again you know I need to look out for the best interest for the city
of Chanhassen and it’s policies and it’s consistencies and so I would definitely support the removal of the
barrier. Having said these things, I appreciate your efforts in being organized and your efforts in really
coming forth and expressing your opinions and your concerns and that’s really what the city is all about is
really hearing what you have to say and unfortunately we’re not always going to agree but hopefully it is
the best overall decision for the city and I think that that’s what we’re all basing our decision on here
tonight is what is the best decision for the city of Chanhassen. Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any other comments? Councilwoman Tjornhom, do you have some?
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Sure. Yep. Two Monday nights ago we sat here and it was like 11:00 at
night or midnight I’m sorry and we were all very tired and drained and emotionally kind of high. We
were you know, you guys had drawn a line in the sand and I think you know council was kind of trying to
figure out if that line could be moved at all. It could be erased. What was the best solution to this and so
we as a council decided to table it and I think as a neighborhood you agreed with that. That that was the
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Chanhassen City Council – February 24, 2014
right decision and so I left that night thinking and hoping and praying that your neighborhood would be
able to figure it out with our city staff so you would really be able to control what was happening and
when I found out or I heard the repercussions of the meeting it’s kind of like that line is still there. City
hasn’t moved. Neighborhood hasn’t moved and so then it was brought back to council once again to try
to decipher what was the most reasonable solution to this issue. …council member, this is my third term
and this is not my first neighborhood dilemma when it comes to barricades. Longacres, my first term as a
council member I think probably my first, third or fourth meeting into it, you know that was the biggest
thing. A barricade and the new development and it was going to be a terrible, terrible dilemma that you
know UPS trucks were going to be running over children and so you know I walked it and another
council member and I kind of fought our way through it and we ended up having the longest cul-de-sac in
the city. Was that the best solution to that problem? Right now as I look back to it, I’m not sure because
in the next meetings that came and the next barricades that came down, everyone had your same fear.
They obviously did. I would probably have your same fear if I was you know living in a house and there
was a barricade right there and all of a sudden that’s coming down and I don’t know. I don’t know. I
can’t foresee the future. I don’t know who’s going to be driving past my house and if they have the same
love, care and respect for my family and my neighbors as I do. What I can tell you is that those fears I
think hopefully in time will subside because you will see that the cut through traffic, and we all say that
we’ve driven through your neighborhood and we all have. I’ve driven through it too. I think I got lost
twice just because it is so windy. I mean it really is not convenient for anybody to say I’m going to hurry
up and beat the traffic light or not have to stop at the stop sign and cut through your neighborhood. I
honestly do not think that is really going to happen so I think your biggest problem is going to be your
own neighbors and yourselves. You know will Springfield respect Kiowa’s street and will Kiowa respect
Springfield’s streets? And of course you will because you have that community and you understand who
lives in that community. So I too will be supporting taking the barricade down but I really would like to
see a traffic circle. I really, really would. I don’t want to see speed bumps. I don’t think you know
rumble strips are the solution but I honestly do think that a traffic circle, it’s $1,500. I think it’s
something that’s worth a try. If it doesn’t work it doesn’t work but at least it’s a start in a direction and if
you really do see that there is traffic and it is a big problem, then you need to let City Hall know and that
deputy right there will be in your neighborhood watching that traffic. You know you’re not alone in this
and so if there are problems, let us know. You know if we’re wrong I’ll be the first one to say you guys
were right. Let’s put that stupid thing back up again but let’s just at least try to see what happens and let’s
try to work together and as Councilmember Laufenburger said, we’re still a community and I hope that
you don’t just see this, this movement tonight or this motion tonight as something that’s reflective of this
whole council because I know each and one of these council members and they do care and they do not
want anything to happen to your neighborhood. Your neighborhood is our neighborhood and so I really
do thank you though for all your emails. I do. It meant, it really does. If don’t think something we don’t
know and so I thank you for that participation. I really do. I’m not just saying that and so I do, I am
confident that with time this will be alright. The pool situation I do agree. That something should be
done with that you know because we’re driving along, the person that was driving me along went well
where is the pool even? You know it’s kind of tucked back so you can’t see it and so if you can’t see it
you don’t know you’re supposed to really slow down so I think some extra signage would be a good idea
there even if you can’t, you know there’s like a center line striping. You can see it in the summer. I think
that’s when you would see it the most. That’s when the snow is gone and the pool is open but you know
those are some solutions that I still think can be on the table if they really are deemed necessary so thank
you.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. I guess my thoughts and comments. Generally will mirror what has already
been said so I…so I probably won’t repeat those. I think the issue was, and apologize if I mess up the
name but Curt. Mr. Kobilarcsik. Thank you. I hope I got it at least close. Thank you and I apologize.
You know your comments when you talk through the intention of the council and I think Mr. McDonald
talked about the length of time that this, the Springfield neighborhood development was being considered
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Chanhassen City Council – February 24, 2014
by council. Over 5 years. Multiple council members and I think even there you said at the time that the
PUD was approved, the preliminary PUD with the condition 30 that you mentioned points out
superseding or overriding I think was your inclination of the other comments but that it was supposed to
be temporary. That that was the balance at that time that the council sought and achieved with the
residents in Kiowa, since there were no Springfield residents at that point in time. You know and that
was the intention. That the barrier should be temporary. Temporary has lasted a long, long time and I
think that’s part of the issue here is how long it took for the conditions to be met once 212 was completed.
The purpose for that as I understand it was some other, other information that staff provided that was
generated at the time is that traffic patterns would change and indeed before existing 212 was built the
east/west connections or roads were Highway 5, Pioneer Trail and old 212. County 61 right now and the
traffic patterns moved in that area moved towards Pioneer Trail. Moved towards old 212 primarily. That
has changed. You know a variety of comments came up, the Comprehensive Plan talks about
discouraging cut through traffic and I agree with that but it doesn’t talk about preventing it. It doesn’t talk
about eliminating any possibility of it occurring and in the very next phrase of that same sentence, when
it’s talking about traffic in one sense, it also talks about connecting neighborhoods with traffic and so I
think it’s, I agree with those statements. Do we discourage it in areas? Yes we do. Do we prevent it?
Eliminate any possibility from occurring? That’s not reasonable and practical because if that was the case
we’d have barriers such as this across our city everywhere. That’s not the way the city’s developed and I
personally don’t think that that’s good public policy to do it that way. As I heard the other council
members say, I’ve read all the emails. I’ve listened to the comments. I understand the issues for safety. I
get it. I understand it and it has caused me to think and rethink about this issue and about the policy and
is it the right public policy or not. And is that good public policy to apply in this situation, and I think the
best objective information we have are the speed studies that were done at the time that the Kiowa
neighborhood could only drive through Springfield neighborhood and we saw average speeds there of less
than 25 miles an hour. Most neighborhoods would like that from a speed standpoint. The current and
estimated traffic counts are well below the standard for safe conditions for residential street so I think
from an objective standpoint, even without the barrier there, will it be different? Could there be more
vehicles? Yes. Is it going to create unsafe conditions? In my opinion no. I simply, as Mr. McDonald
said, haven’t heard a compelling reason not to follow through with the terms of the original PUD or the
development contract or not follow the Comprehensive Plan in order to keep the barrier in place. To
Councilwoman Tjornhom’s comment about the traffic circle. Perhaps. My thought is, since the emails
that we received, that I received, those that talked about the options basically said don’t do any of them.
Even tonight we heard the residents don’t do them. Might they work? Perhaps. My preference would be,
and it sounds like the council will support the barrier coming down. Next item we’re going to discuss are
the Kiowa improvements. At this point let’s keep the traffic calming measures on the shelf and let’s see
and let’s watch. We have neighborhoods across the city that Mr. Oehme and his staff work with and
monitor traffic and I think if there are things that we can use, I’d rather use a rifle to address specific
things at the time that they’re occurring rather than try to go with the shotgun approach so my preference
would be at this point to not move forward with any of the traffic calming devices in large part because of
comments made by residents in their emails and again here this evening. That they didn’t see the benefit
of those at this point and you know I kind of wrote down some of the options and it was don’t do that.
Don’t do that. Don’t do that so my preference would be at this point keeping it clean. Let’s just, if the
council wants to move forward to take the barrier down let’s do that but not do any of the traffic calming
effects in the Springfield neighborhood or authorize any of those. I think it, was it Ms. Messmer that
spoke on behalf of the association? Maybe I messed up your name there too and I apologize. I think you
made the comment that you don’t agree with some of those and so I think you know in that case I would
follow what the residents would request. To not move forward with those at this time and monitor it. If
we find specific issues that need to be addressed, then we can look at issues and we’ll address those so.
Those are my thoughts and comments. I think at this point I would certainly entertain a motion. If there’s
one.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 24, 2014
Councilman McDonald: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: There’s one recommended in the staff report.
Councilman McDonald: I would propose that the City Council authorizes removal of the barricade
between Springfield Drive and Kiowa Trail.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Is there a second?
Councilwoman Ernst: Second.
Mayor Furlong: Motion’s been made and seconded. Is there any further discussion?
Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Furlong: Councilman Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: I don’t choose to make an amendment at this time but I think I would like to
get agreement from the council that it’s appropriate for us to direct the staff to come back to us at that
point in time in the future with recommendations as to what traffic calming techniques that are shown to
be effective and agreeable to the residents of the neighborhood, and the reason I say that is that I firmly
believe that if the residents are given an opportunity to look at options when in fact the barrier is down, I
think they would, they may be more open to considering what some of those traffic calming techniques
might be so I’m perfectly comfortable with a motion that takes the barrier down but I think we should
direct staff, we should have on record that this council wants staff to work with the neighborhood to
develop recommendations that come back to the council. My only point.
Mayor Furlong: Other thoughts or comments on that. Mr. McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: How do you do that? I mean do you want us to individually say we would
support that? That’s not really a motion.
Councilman Laufenburger: If you’d like me to make it as an amendment I’d be happy to do that.
Mayor Furlong: I guess my question would be, is that anything different than what staff would currently
do now in any neighborhood? I mean I see Mr. Gerhardt say no and Mr. Oehme I mean if, if
neighborhoods, and often we get requests from neighborhoods on speeding. You know all sorts of traffic
related and they address it and I’d have no problem listening to any recommendations from the
neighborhood or staff but I don’t know that it’s anything, what you’re suggesting is anything different
than we do for any neighborhood.
Councilman Laufenburger: Right. My only point is that the umbrella that you put over the
neighborhood’s resistance to any traffic calming techniques was they firmly want the barrier to remain in
place. If and when the action is that the barrier comes down, they may be more proactive in considering
more effectively calming techniques. I just wanted that on the record. No need to direct staff.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Any other discussion? If not a motion’s been made and seconded. If
there’s no other discussion we’ll proceed with the vote.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 24, 2014
Councilman McDonald moved, Councilwoman Ernst seconded that the Chanhassen City Council
authorizes removal of the barricade between Springfield Drive and Kiowa Trail. All voted in favor
and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
Mayor Furlong: That motion does prevail 5-0. Thank you everyone. Next item on our agenda is the
2014 street improvement projects.
2014 STREET IMPROVEMENT PROJECTS:
A. KIOWA TRAIL STREET IMPROVEMENT PROJECT: ADOPT RESOLUTION
ORDERING THE PROJECT, ACCEPTING THE REVISED FEASIBILITY STUDY;
AUTHORIZING PREPARATION OF PLANS & SPECIFICATIONS; AND APPROVING
PLANS & SPECIFICATIONS.
B. MINNEWASHTA SHORES IMPROVEMENT PROJECT: ADOPT RESOLUTION
APPROVING PLANS & SPECIFICATIONS.
Mayor Furlong: This is actually bringing back a motion that we had I think proposed by Mr.
Laufenburger or made by Mr. Laufenburger and seconded by Councilwoman Ernst if I’m not mistaken at
our last meeting so that, what we’re doing is bringing this motion back from the table as it was tabled and
as directed to come to this meeting. The motion, just to repeat it at that time, Councilman Laufenburger
stated I move the Chanhassen City Council approve a resolution ordering improvements for the 2014
street reconstruction Kiowa Trail Area Project #14-01 as stipulated in the staff report. And that was
seconded. So that motion is now back before the council. There has been, I guess there’s been some
additional information gathered by the council. It was tabled. We talked a bunch, most about that issue at
our previous item which has now been settled so at this point I think two things. For purposes of our
discussion, I think it would be one, appropriate to consider an amendment to the motion that’s before us
th
and this is Mr. Laufenburger’s motion from January 27 to remove all references to the barrier from the
motion. From the project relating to Kiowa would be the first part. And second part I think an
amendment to incorporate the recommended motions if the council wants to, recommended motions for
both A and B which deal with the, now I just, bear with me. Try to keep on top of this here. A and B
which deal with not only the approval of the plans and specifications but also authorizing for bid I believe
is the next aspect of it. Is that correct Mr. Gerhardt?
Todd Gerhardt: Yes.
Mayor Furlong: Sorry for my delays there. So the recommending, so we have a motion from Mr.
Laufenburger before us. At this point we will be discussing this. We will be providing public comment if
necessary. Mr. McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: Mr. Mayor then at that point is it proper to ask for an amendment to Mr.
Laufenburger’s motion and would he have to agree to accept it? Where are we at procedurally?
Mayor Furlong: No. Procedurally an amendment can always be made and seconded and then the council
will vote on the amendment and then you’re discussing the amended motion.
Councilman McDonald: Okay.
Mayor Furlong: So at this point where we are Mr. Scott correct me if I’m wrong, we’ve brought Mr.
Laufenburger’s motion back on the table that is before us. At this point for cleanliness and because the
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Chanhassen City Council – February 24, 2014
issue of the barrier’s already been discussed and action’s been taken on that I think first an amendment to
remove any reference to the barrier between Kiowa and Springfield Roads.
Councilman McDonald: Then I would so make such an amendment that any reference to the barrier in
the original motion be removed from that motion and that we go forward strictly based upon the street.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. And then would you also Mr. McDonald incorporate by amendment or
recommend an amendment, move an amendment to incorporate the two proposed motions in tonight’s
staff report.
Councilman McDonald: Right. A and B which is Kiowa Trail and the Minnewashta Shores, is that
correct?
Mayor Furlong: That’s correct.
Councilman McDonald: Okay. I would also.
Mayor Furlong: …staff report.
Councilman McDonald: As stated in the staff report.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Is there a second to Mr. McDonald’s amendment?
Councilwoman Ernst: Second.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Is there any discussion on the amendment? Everybody’s clear?
Councilman McDonald moved, Councilwoman Ernst seconded to approve an amendment that any
reference to the barrier between Kiowa Trail and Springfield Drive in the motion made on January
27, 2014 be removed. All voted in favor and the motion to approve the amendment carried
unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
Mayor Furlong: That motion prevails 5-0. Okay, we now have the amended motion in front of us. Mr.
Gerhardt, Mr. Oehme, any additional information from the staff on this item? What we’re dealing with
now is strictly street improvements on Kiowa as proposed without any reference to the barrier and also
street improvements authorizing, approving plans and specifications authorizing bids for the
improvements in the Minnewashta Shores area. Public hearing for that was held at our last council
meeting. Our first February council meeting. Okay, is there any update from the staff on either of these
items?
Paul Oehme: No. I do have a presentation. Just a run through the project again and if you’d like to be
reminded about the project and some of the documentation that goes along with that. Otherwise we can,
if you have any questions for us too.
Mayor Furlong: No. I mean typically I’ve got no objection to that so please.
Paul Oehme: Okay. So staff would just like to update the council again and remind you about what’s
included in the project. So this year’s street project 2014 is, there’s two project areas. One is
Minnewashta Shores neighborhood from Cypress Drive up to Arbor Lanes and then Kiowa Trail
specifically from 101 to the Springfield Drive. In total there’s 1.1 miles of streets that are being
considered for reconstruction. Briefly the streets are in poor condition. They were built in the early 70’s.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 24, 2014
Street indexes of the pavement condition suggest that we cannot maintain these roads using preventative
maintenance techniques such as sealcoats and just patching at this time. We do have documented
numerous watermain breaks in this area so at this time these streets are warranted for reconstruction based
upon the City’s practice of reconstructing streets that have reached their life expectancy. And again the
Kiowa Trail, same thing. These streets are pavement condition indexes are really low. 13 out of 100
basically for a new street so this section of roadway is also recommended for reconstruction. Again the
proposal before you tonight is to reconstruct both of these neighborhoods. Full depth and we have looked
at basically the geometrics of the roadway. Like to try to keep the roadway width about the same as it is
today. There’s a lot of steep topography, steep driveways. There really isn’t that much wiggle room to
widen the streets out in either of these neighborhoods to make them our standard 31 foot road width. So
we’d like to replace the pavement section. Add draintile. Try to keep that water out of the subgrade as
much as we can. Residents can connect into that draintile in the future for sump pump usage and
discharge. Try to keep that water off the surface of the street as well. We also like to install curb and
gutter in both of these neighborhoods for drainage purposes and to keep the road integrity intact as well.
Keep the road together. Installing new watermain services in both of these areas. Kiowa Trail currently
does not have water service. Everybody’s on wells in this area. We would like to bring in water and
services to each of those property owners in conjunction with this project. Storm sewer improvements are
also a part of this project. Each of the neighborhoods are going to try to treat the water as much as we can
to as high a level as we can and then there’s also miscellaneous sanitary sewer repairs associated with
each of these projects as well. For example the storm sewer improvements in Springfield neighborhood,
we have worked with the homeowner's association in this area. We have last council meeting as you
recall there was a homeowner's association city agreement that we would be able to utilize the park that’s
owned, maintained by the homeowner's association for storm sewer improvements staging area. It’s very
cost effective for both parties to look at that. Saves the city cost for trucking off some of the material.
Also it improves the park for aesthetics and for playability of the park. We’re going to try to make that
area as flat as we can and also incorporate some storm sewer infiltration techniques in this area to try to
treat the water before it ends up in Minnewashta. Lake Minnewashta. And again the storm sewer
improvements in Kiowa Trail, we’re looking at previous pavement parking lot where the current parking
lot exists. Try to infiltrate as much water as we can. Iron filing systems in the existing pond and park. In
Bandimere Park. And then also storm sewer improvements and sump manholes and snaffle baffles in this
area as well to try to capture some of the sediments before they are discharged into the lake.
Construction. The watermain in each of these neighborhoods would be open cut so there is some
disruption to the traveling public in this area. We’re going to try to work with the property owners and
the contractor to try to stage the construction as much as we can to reduce the disruption to the
neighborhood as best as we can. Temporary water services would have to be installed in the Kiowa Trail
area. And like all other projects connecting through the existing water connections to their houses,
inspection would work with the contractor to coordinate work and notify residents of upcoming
construction in front of their houses. We’ll try to send out emails and phone calls and door hangers as
much as we can to try to coordinate the work when construction’s going to be going on in front of
people’s houses. Mailboxes would have to be removed and relocated. We’re going to have to work with
the post master on where those, that temporary mailbox location would be located in each of the
neighborhoods. And then we also require that the contractor work with the garbage collectors in the area
to make sure that garbage collection is taking place on the appropriate day and that residents are still
being served. This is just a brief cost estimate. The budget and what each of the neighborhoods, cost
estimates for each of the neighborhoods. So Minnewashta Shores is broken out into each of the funding
categories and utility improvements so Minnewashta Shores is a little over $1.5 million dollars. Kiowa
Trail is about $718,000 for those improvements and the costs currently includes 10% contingencies and
10% indirect costs as well. With that preliminary assessments. Minnewashta Shores is basically just to
be assessed, proposed to be assessed for the street improvements as per our assessment practice. 40
parcels in that neighborhood. Based upon the current estimate, the estimated assessment is a little over
$6,800 and Kiowa Trail the total assessment is almost $14,000. That includes water service extensions
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Chanhassen City Council – February 24, 2014
for each of the property owners in this neighborhood. That is proposed to be assessed 100% to the
benefiting property owners since there is no water service currently at that, on this project area. Again
terms of the assessment are proposed to be over a 10 year period and the interest rate, prime rate at the
time of contract award plus 2% just for carrying costs for the City. If the project were to move forward,
bid opening we’re anticipating sometime in March. End of March. Assessment hearing is in April and
construction start is in May. Paving operations, we’re going to try to have most of the construction, each
of the neighborhoods completed by August. End of August before school starts and substantial
completion, except for the wear course by October of this year. Final wear course would be end of July
or end of June of next year. We just want to make sure that the pavement section in the streets go through
one freeze thaw cycle before we put that final wear course on. So based upon that information the revised
feasibility study staff believes that the project is feasible, necessary and cost effective and would request
that the project would move forward. With that if there’s any questions at this time, be more than happy
to answer them.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Questions for staff Mr. Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Oehme, thinking about Kiowa Trail. You have plans to put a wear
course on 101 this spring or summer is that correct?
Paul Oehme: Correct.
Councilman Laufenburger: Will that in any way interfere with this construction?
Paul Oehme: No, it should not. Wear course on 101 will be fairly routine. They’ll come in and put the
wear course on in a day in this area so in terms of interruption and construction or traffic access, I don’t
think it should be that big of a problem.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Alright. Thank you very much.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any other questions for staff? Thank you. There is a motion before us that
as amended to include the items under the proposed motion here in the screen so that’s already been
incorporated into the motion before us. Is there any discussion on the motion for these projects? I guess
the only comment I would say is that in both neighborhoods with regard to the street improvement
projects there was…of the comments made to go forward with the projects. We’ve got opportunities to
improve stormwater management in both these projects which are located near lakes so that’s always a
positive. Those improvements are being born by the City and not being assessed to any of the
homeowners. I know the homeowner's association up in Minnewashta Heights neighborhood is helping
with the location of the stormwater pond so it is positive. Before we move forward though I will allow
for some public comment. We had a public hearing on both of these items which was closed but because
this is coming back, was tabled if there’s new information or if any residents would like to provide any
comments, I want to make sure that we hear those before we take action on the amended motion so, just
want to make sure if there’s anything else.
Kiowa Trail Resident: Yeah, I’m not going over the barrier.
Mayor Furlong: No, that’s fine.
Kiowa Trail Resident: Quick question and comment. We did have a meeting a week and a half ago with
staff and there was a lengthy discussion. Obviously we wanted to make our point to staff that the barrier
was our primary motivation for engaging the staff and having that discussion but subsequent to making
that statement we did go through with staff over the recommendations that staff had. We did discuss you
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Chanhassen City Council – February 24, 2014
know for better than an hour the various options. The circle was probably the best of all of the options
that were presented if the barrier was to come down. That seemed to give you know an added
disincentive for cut through traffic from other neighborhoods. You know short of that I mean obviously
the Springfield neighborhood spoke for themselves as to the dividers and lane things that they didn’t feel
were as functional as they would like to see. Signage doesn’t do a whole lot of good if people are just
cutting through. You know the reason they’re cutting through is to speed up their commute but a circle of
some kind one, distinguishes between the two neighborhoods and there needs to be some distinguishing
you know marker here. You’ve got two different street names. I didn’t hear anybody take you know
inferring that they were going to change the names on these two streets. One neighborhood has an
association that limits their homeowners on what they can do. Our neighborhood does not so some kind
of divider that indicates to people that are traveling through that they’re two different neighborhoods
would be appropriate. So rather than just dismiss them all and say you know we’re not going to do
anything to slow traffic down to make this less of an inviting cut through, we would prefer to see as many
things as possible. One being the circle or whatever you know. At least it gives an indication to people to
slow down. I had suggested at that time that we put a crosswalk in and potentially a stop sign at that point
because it does become an area where it is where there’s an entrance to the park and there will be people
coming in and out of that. There is a driveway with multiple homes directly across from that circle. In
that circle so people are going to be trying to skirt around that quickly and if we can slow them down
even more it would be even more appreciated so whatever city staff can suggest would be appreciated.
Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. With regard to a stop sign. Is that a proper location for a stop sign?
Paul Oehme: I don’t think it would meet warrants just based upon my knowledge of the area. I don’t
think that would help.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. With regard to a traffic circle there, can it be designed for a 25 or 30 miles an
hour type of a design so we’re not slowing cars down to 15 miles an hour? To me that would be too
much of a burden for just people using a public road. I still don’t know if that’s an appropriate place to
do it. If it would be, if the barrier hadn’t been there would we be discussing a traffic circle I guess is one
of my questions. I can open that up to the council as well but you know I wouldn’t want, I understand
your comments. I think we should think about what we’re doing and why we’re doing it but.
Paul Oehme: Sure. Yeah, so again the traffic circle mayor would, is designed to slow the traffic down in
that particular location so you know if we would put some sort of median in but try to keep traffic at 25. I
don’t think that serves anybody’s good. It does delineate between the two neighborhoods but I don’t
know if that’s the appropriate place for that or not so, for traffic calming I mean to put it in I think that’s
the traffic speed that you would like to see going through the circle would be from that 10 to 15 miles per
hour so if the council doesn’t think that’s appropriate for this area I would recommend not putting one in.
To the caveat though, if we do see you know traffic speeding or we do see a problem there, to put a traffic
circle in later it will cost a lot more money. I mean the cost, the $1,500 that I had estimated in the
background indicated when the road was going to be reconstructed. All the curb and gutter would be
there. To put a traffic circle in the future, we have to rip out curb and gutter. We have to rip out asphalt
and reconfigure that whole area so it’d be substantially more to put it in later versus doing it now. At the
time of reconstruction so I just wanted to make sure that the council understood the costs for if we put it
in now versus potentially in the future.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Thank you. Why don’t we take that under advisement if you will and I want to
make sure, anybody else want to make public comment? Thank you. Oh, okay.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 24, 2014
Cathy Erpelding: Hi. My name’s Cathy Erpelding. I live at 9061 Springfield Drive. Just to reiterate
what the gentleman just said as far as the circle and the delineating the neighborhoods. As a reminder
also if people do use Springfield to go south and then Kiowa to hit 101, it’s a pretty significant steep hill
there so if they’re hitting that area where the barrier is right now at 25 miles an hour, even if they don’t
accelerate down that hill, by the time they get down to the bottom they’re going to be going significantly
faster based on what happened over the summer from my understanding and with no sidewalks and for
the safety of the Kiowa residents, you might want to take that under consideration. Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Anyone else like to make public comment this evening on either of these two projects?
Thank you for those comments. Comments and discussion from members of the council. On any aspects
of these projects including the comments we’ve heard tonight on the traffic circle.
Councilwoman Ernst: Mr. Mayor I would.
Mayor Furlong: Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: Yeah. I know when we originally talked about this at the last meeting that was, it
sounded to me like that was the best option for calming at that point an I know you’ve looked at many
other different options and I’m glad you brought that up tonight Paul with the cost because I wasn’t
thinking about that later on we’d have to rip everything up to put it in and so if that’s something that I
guess what council agrees with then I would certainly support that.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, other thoughts? Mr. McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: Yeah I guess as Mr. Laufenburger had said, he wanted some kind of a statement
as to where we’re at on all of this. I’m perfectly fine with deferring to staff on this and I would expect if
there is something that can be done you will come back to us with a recommendation but at this point I
guess I’m not in favor of moving forward with anything until staff has had the opportunity to look at it
and kind of come up with you know what is appropriate and at that point I can you know consider it but I
would say give staff the latitude at this point to look at this. Address the comments that have come in.
I’m very supportive of doing that and if there is another solution you want to bring back to council, by all
means I would encourage you to do so.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Other comments? Councilwoman Tjornhom.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Yeah I’d like to weigh in just a little bit I guess.
Mayor Furlong: Sure, nope. Absolutely.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: I understand what happened tonight and I understand what happened 2 nights
beforehand and with the staff meeting and the residents how, like I said there was a real firm line that was
drawn in the sand. It was an all or nothing deal for both sides. That now is over and I think if people still
wanted to go back and reconsider, and I think that that’s totally appropriate to go okay, we’ve got this
coming down now. I still think it’s appropriate to still consider the circle. Yes it does perhaps slow
traffic down to 10 miles an hour. 15 miles an hour but it’s not traffic. We just told the neighbors that
there’s not going to be all this traffic coming through so if it is just one car, two cars every once in a while
coming through, it’s not going to be you know slowing the flow of traffic down at all. I still feel for the
neighborhood. I really do and that’s my main concern. I don’t want to sit here all night and arguing about
a traffic circle at all but I still do feel that you know personally I need to do my due diligence to make
sure that I’ve done what I can do for the residents, even though they don’t agree with bringing the barrier
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Chanhassen City Council – February 24, 2014
down. This is still going to make it maybe a little bit easier to at least calm the traffic coming into the
neighborhood and that’s the only way, the only reason why I’m looking at it.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: I know that we don’t do it for every neighborhood. I understand that but like
I said this has been a really hard issue for everybody and if this could be just some way to give them
peace of mind, you know I think the city would still run just fine if that circle was there and it would still
run just fine if it wasn’t but if it makes them a little more comfortable, I’m still for the traffic circle.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Other thoughts Mr. Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Yes. Question Mr. Oehme. I think Ms. Erpelding raises a good point. Are
there any plans for change in grade from the high point of the connection between Springfield Drive and
Kiowa and the low point of Kiowa?
Paul Oehme: No there is not. We have, with the driveways the way they are, the topography and the way
the road is currently aligned there really isn’t much opportunity to change the grade of the road coming
down or the alignment.
Councilman Laufenburger: Even shaving off some of the Springfield and moving it into Kiowa?
Paul Oehme: We’d have to shave or reconstruct a fairly good portion of the Springfield Drive roadway to
really significantly improve the grade of the…
Councilman Laufenburger: And that certainly would then change the connection between Ms. Mason’s
driveway, which is the first house north of the barrier.
Paul Oehme: That’s correct.
Councilman Laufenburger: And etc. Okay. Well, I tried to say this but not effectively before and that is
that I think that it’s appropriate that we direct staff to come back with, excuse me. Now that the decision
on the barrier is final, asking the residents to review calming techniques knowing that we really are
interested in hearing some sort of movement on their part and that staff should come back with a
recommendation for traffic calming techniques that are shown to be effective and agreeable to the
residents of the neighborhood.
Mayor Furlong: Well and I guess.
Councilman Laufenburger: And I would support a traffic circle.
Mayor Furlong: Come back, okay. Thank you. I mean come back when because we want to move
forward with this project and I, I understand the comments made tonight about the traffic circle. I just,
I’m looking at this from a public policy standpoint and I don’t know that we have, do we have any of this
anywhere else in the city?
Paul Oehme: Mayor we have traffic roundabouts. We don’t have a traffic circle in residential areas that
I’m aware of…
Mayor Furlong: It was my understanding the roundabouts were to improve the movement of traffic.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 24, 2014
Paul Oehme: It is.
Mayor Furlong: Not to restrict traffic or to, it’s actually meant to make traffic flow.
Paul Oehme: Correct. It does.
Mayor Furlong: More safely.
Paul Oehme: It does.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright.
Councilman Laufenburger: Remind me, where do we have roundabouts?
Paul Oehme: Bluff Creek Boulevard and Bluff Creek Drive.
Mayor Furlong: Near the Town and Country. K. Hovnanian.
Paul Oehme: K. Hovnanian area.
Mayor Furlong: Pioneer Pass area.
Paul Oehme: Entering the Lifetime Fitness. There’s a traffic circle there too.
Mayor Furlong: But again the purpose of those are to improve traffic flow and safety. Not to curtail it,
restrict it.
Paul Oehme: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: So I appreciate the comments. I’m just, you know my thought was and it’s for the
purpose of having it at 25 or 30 miles an hour, I know 25 miles an hour was the average speed cars were
going so it would certainly slow down cars. Anybody going over the speed limit at that 25 miles an hour
rate. I think we’ve talked about and dealt with the issue of cars cutting through and safety issues and stuff
like that so it really isn’t that type of issue here. It’s more one for putting in place an appropriate
residential street and is there a safety need for doing that. My thought would be, as I mentioned before
would be to wait and address issues as they occur rather than anticipating problems that we’re putting up
barriers and restrictions to just normal residential traffic. But I mean the thought was to come back with
some direction is what I’m hearing so maybe that’s the route to go if we move forward with these plans
and then if staff believes that there needs to be a change either during the current project or at some point
in the future they can come back to us, as they would with any other neighborhood. Mr. Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Yeah Mr. Mayor, I wasn’t putting a time table on this direction to staff.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Councilman Laufenburger: From my viewpoint, well yes there could be savings by putting a traffic circle
in now. Clearly Mr. Oehme you’ve said that. I’m not interested in spending money now that maybe
wouldn’t be spent in the future.
Mayor Furlong: Yeah.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 24, 2014
Councilman Laufenburger: If the staff doesn’t come back with a recommendation that says you know
we can’t really build a traffic circle to restrict traffic to only 20 miles an hour. If that’s the case then I’d
be willing to listen to that but if they came back and said, we can build a traffic circle to restrict traffic to
20 miles an hour. We think that’s an effective in accomplishing something that appears to be a problem,
as Mrs. Erpelding said, then I’d be willing to consider whatever the cost might be at that time. I think we
owe these residents that.
Mayor Furlong: And that’s fair.
Councilman Laufenburger: So I was not looking for a timeframe on my comment Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. And so I agree with that.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay.
Mayor Furlong: I would agree with that and I think that’s.
Councilman McDonald: I agree with that.
Mayor Furlong: What’s been said as well. Yes.
Councilwoman Ernst: Yeah I just, I mean I didn’t want to pay, I guess I was looking at based on what
Paul said, I didn’t want to pay $10,000 later versus $1,500 today if that’s the direction we were going to
go.
Councilman Laufenburger: But in fact Councilwoman Ernst if we don’t put a traffic circle in now and
Paul comes back to us and says, I think we have a problem and that problem can be addressed with a
traffic circle and it’s going to cost us, even if it says $15,000 I would give that consideration if it could
solve a problem. Excuse me.
Councilwoman Ernst: And I’m not, and I guess what I’m saying is, and I’m leaving it up to staff. They
will know. They can come back to us and say hey, we feel that we should do this now. It will slow it
down to your point. If we can slow it down to 20 miles an hour or whatever the case is, then it makes
sense to go forward with it.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright.
Councilman Laufenburger: Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Sounds like we’re in agreement on that. Any other comments or discussion on the
motion as amended authorizing plans and specifications and bids for both of these projects as included in
the staff report? Hearing none we’ll proceed with the vote.
Resolution #2014-09: Councilman McDonald moved, Councilwoman Ernst seconded that the City
Council adopts a resolution authorizing preparation of plans and specifications, approving plans
and specifications, and authorizing advertising for bids for the 2014 Street and Utility
Improvement Project (Kiowa Trail Area). All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously
with a vote of 5 to 0.
Resolution #2014-10: Councilman McDonald moved, Councilwoman Ernst seconded that the City
Council adopts a resolution approving the plans and specifications and authorizing advertising for
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Chanhassen City Council – February 24, 2014
bids for the 2014 Street and Utility Improvement Project (Minnewashta Shores Area). All voted in
favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you everyone. That completes our items of new business this evening.
COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS:
Councilwoman Tjornhom: I just want to thank the Park and Rec department or Mitch especially. I went
on the luminary walk on Friday night and it was really a great thing. It was, I wasn’t sure what I was
going to expect but it really was, it was quiet and it was cold and you could see the stars.
Mayor Furlong: And snowy.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: And snowy. It was perfect winter night and it really, really was a good event,
although I did recommend to Mitch that perhaps October is a better month for something like that. But so
I think it was the first time we had done that and so I think, I saw everyone having a good time so it was a
good event.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you.
Todd Gerhardt: Big thanks to the Holiday Inn for allowing us to use their parking lot. They had hot
chocolate and coffee and cookies and fire pit was going and it was a great night. I think we had 50 to 75
people participate…
Mayor Furlong: Is Reece a people though? He’s part of the family.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: They need some speed bumps for him definitely right. Traffic calming.
Mayor Furlong: Any other council presentations?
ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS.
Todd Gerhardt: Couple of things. We’ve got a big week here. We’re interviewing fire chiefs and got 5
candidates that we’ll be interviewing on Wednesday. Our current chief is one of the 5 and excited to meet
people and see their skills and hear about their experiences so.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Todd Gerhardt: I’ve also asked Joel McColl, the chief from Savage to participate in the interviews with
us, along with Sheriff Jim Olson and so we’re hoping to narrow it down to 2 and have final interviews in
a couple weeks.
Mayor Furlong: Good.
Todd Gerhardt: On that issue. And then tomorrow we have the Buy Chanhassen meeting so those people
that are interested in participating, it’s about the social media. I figured a good topic…
Councilman Laufenburger: What’s your Twitter account?
Todd Gerhardt: Whatever Laurie’s is. Our Twitter queen so, but so that’s all I have.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 24, 2014
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Any questions for Mr. Gerhardt or his staff? Thank you.
CORRESONDENCE DISCUSSION.
Mayor Furlong: Any comments on the correspondent packet? Mr. Laufenburger.
Councilman Laufenburger: Mr. Mayor, yeah. Todd can you just clarify for me. There was a schedule on
st
the Board of Appeals and Equalization. Is that, and it lists Chanhassen in the time of April 21 through
the 25. Is there any action for the City or is that specifically for residents who want to appeal their
assessments?
Todd Gerhardt: Yes. Their assessed market value. It’s an open book process. They have 5 days to set
up a meeting with the Assessor’s Office down in Carver County. Chaska, Minnesota. Courthouse and to
appeal or have an open book discussion with the assessor on how they determined value.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay and is there anything that we in the city do to make sure that the
citizens know that this is the timeframe available to them? Do we put it in the Villager? On our website?
Things like that.
Todd Gerhardt: Yes. We have it on our website and it explains the process and who to contact and the
times.
Mayor Furlong: Isn’t the information also included on the statement of proposed assessments that come
out from the County?
Todd Gerhardt: Yes.
Mayor Furlong: So the same sheet that shows the
Councilman Laufenburger: Property tax.
Mayor Furlong: No. Well proposed assessment and it may come out with the property tax bill for saving
a mailing but the proposed assessment as of January of 2014 on that sheet it will also talk about when
people can set up those meetings.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Alright.
Todd Gerhardt: And times.
Councilman Laufenburger: Okay, thank you.
Todd Gerhardt: Trying to get out ahead…people aware and thank you to Kim Meuwissen for putting that
on our website.
Mayor Furlong: Alright. Thank you. Any other comments on the discussion packet? If not, if there’s
nothing else to come before the council this evening, is there a motion to adjourn?
Councilwoman Tjornhom moved, Councilwoman Ernst seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted
in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0. The City Council meeting was
adjourned at 9:00 p.m.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 24, 2014
Submitted by Todd Gerhardt
City Manager
Prepared by Nann Opheim
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