4. Recommendation from Community Center Task force t
CITYOF __
CHANHASSEN
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690 COULTER DRIVE • P.O. BOX 147 • CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900 • FAX (612) 937-5739
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MEMORANDUM
1 TO: Mayor and City Council
FROM: Don Ashworth, City Manager p/7'k.
1 DATE: July 9, 1990
SUBJ: Recommendation from the Community Center Task Force
The City Council last reviewed this item on January 8, 1990.
Action was tabled to complete a financial feasibility study by
Springsted, Inc. The City Council previously received a copy of
this report. Please call Karen or me if you cannot locate your
copy.
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11 City Council Meeting - January 8, 1990
Councilman Johnson: Was there anybody here from it 5, 6 or 7? I know there's
people here for 7.5.
Mayor C-rriiel: Yeah. Any objections?
REVIEW COMMUNITY CENTER TASK FORCE FINDINGS FROM COMMUNITY GROUP MEETINGS.
Jeff Bros: Good evening. My name is Jeff Bros. I'm up here tonight
representing the Community Center Task Force. As you know we've care before you
' before this past fall and asked for some direction from the Council as to which
way we should go as to presenting information and gathering information from the
catn,unity in regards to a community center in Chanhassen. We took your input
II for questionnaires. We also presented that information to different groups in
town. Namely the senior citizens, the Rotary Club, the Lion's Club, American
Legion, Chanhassen Fire Department, the Hockey Associations and Concerned
' Citizens for the Future of Chanhassen. We also held three open meetings at
local schools in the area. We have arrived at a conclusion of these surveys and
of these meetings and we would like to present that information to you and
follow up with a recommendation to the Council. A total of the community center
' questionnaires that we received back from these meetings was a total of 76 .
surveys back. We are the first to admit that it's a little bit lower than we
would have liked to have seen for a total number of surveys. However, at none
' of the meetings did we run into any opposition anywhere close to what the
previous task force group ran into with the Filly's site. As you can see, am I
correct in that you have this packet? You can see that 58 out of the 76 said
' yes, they would like to see a community center in Chanhassen. 15 said no and to
go along with that, 44 said they would support holding a special referendum for •.
a community center here. 24 said no. There are some comments on the back pages
of each questionnaire. We gave a total tally for each group that we spoke to.
' There are any additional comments also listed there that were listed on the
surveys that we received back from the groups. I guess at this time, does the
Council have anymore questions for the Community Center Task Force?
' Mayor Chmiel: I have some information that, I have a letter here that I intend
on reading as well plus same of the calls that I received from, people but I
' guess I don't, some of the things that I see in this. I'm just thinking we're
still premature as to having a community center. That's my position.
Jeff Bros: Okay. What do you see as an appropriate time there?
' Mayor CYmiel: I see something, is not mentioned, down the road. Anywhere from 3
to 5 years. I also see that this s not representation of the City but a very
' minute percent of the population even consider a referendum. I'm sort of
offended with the fact that I feel that we're not at the point to really support
a community center at this time. I received a letter, and this goes to Council,
' expressing some of their disapproval and I think there's a lot more people out
there than just this one. Several calls that I've received at home have
indicated almost the same, some of the same things here. I'm really at the
point where my own personal feeling is that I don't see a referendum. I don't
' see a community center going forth at this time. I think that we have more
things here now until we get going without downtown projects, which I'd like to
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see consumated as well as waiting to see a population growth. I think Tam
indicated the amount of dollars that we're talking about spending, 4.5 or 5
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City Council Meeting - January 8, 1990 1
million dollars. I don't think that's a kind of a community center that we
want. I don't think we want to make that investment into it until we can really
get something that's going to benefit the entirety of the community. I guess
that I just feel rather strongly about it and I'm really letting you know where
at least I'm coning from. I don't know where the balance of the Council is at
but this is my own personal opinion and as I say, I would just as soon not see a
referendum on it at this particular time. '
Jeff Bros: Okay. Would you rand sharing same of the points, the negative
points that you've received with us?
Mayor Chmiel: Sure. I'd be more than happy to. I think this letter sort of
summarizes everything that I've just said. It says here, I hope you'll share
this letter with the entire City Council and the Community Center Task Force in
the event that I would not be able to attend the Monday night City Council
meeting. I must express my disapproval of the manner in which the Community
Center Task Force has recently operated. Specifically I'm concerned with the
survey conducted to seek resident's opinions on whether or not to build a
ccviunity center. Since when does .76% of the population represent a majority?
Only 76 people responded to the survey of which a majority was in favor of the
cormunity center. Surely the City Council cannot consider this a represented
sample on which to base a referendum vote. I sort of agree with that. Surely
the Task Force can do a better job than this. I think you did a pretty good
job. '
Jeff Bros: I do too.
Mayor Chmiel: But you didn't get enough people into it. I'm also, well I'll ,
leave this particular paragraph out.
Councilman Johnson: Please read it in. '
Mayor Chmiel: Oh, okay. I am also incessed at Jim Mady's remarks that he
thought that no attendance at the three public meetings held on the issue
indicated there was an overall support of the project. I looked for such
meeting and heard of none as I'm sure other residents did. I suspect such
meetings were not well publicized because those who want a center are afraid
that the real majority wants to postpone such a project. That's an opinion. I
represent the Task Force attempts at trying to push the center through without
thorough research when we are already overtaxed in Chanhassen. I resent their
desire to spend my hard earned tax dollars for a special referendum to do so. I
submit that the Task Force desires a referendum in March before Chanhassen
residents receive their property tax bills and are able to assess how recent tax
changes have affected them. At the very least we deserve to be able to make
that assessment. If the City Council votes for the referendum before them, they
truly will not act in the best interest for their constituents.
Jeff Bros: Okay. Alright, first of all. The paragraph that you wanted to '
leave out. I don't know what else we could have done as a task force or as a
group. What else we could have done to advertise those meetings. I don't know
how many weeks that ran in the paper. We sent notices home to every child at
the Chan Elementary School and to other schools in the area that have residents
of Chanhassen. I don't know what else we can do. I'm sure the City Council has
seen the same kind of results from things that you've tried to get done. I I
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City Council Meeting - January 8, 1990
1 think Mr. Mady's comment about no negative, about it by nobody showing up at the
meetings is not true and I don't think anybody would expect to believe that
because nobody showed up doesn't mean anybody doesn't want it. We were very
disappointed as a group that nobody did show up at the public meetings. As a
matter of fact we were amazed. Again, I don't know what else we could have done
as a group trying to get public feedback to get that information fray' the
citizens of this town. One issue that comes up and has been one of our main
reasons not to put aside what's said in the letter but one of the ideas and the
' basis for getting a special referendum done possibly in March was to help gain
' something on building costs. Our architects that have been working on this and
basically giving us building costs have said that we would be looking at an
additional 6% roughly in building costs if we were to wait until a November
ballot. We would lose an entire building season. Whatever numbers they came up
with for a total cost would be, add 6% to it and there you are. We felt looking
at the numbers that we were working with, anywhere from 3 to 4 1/2 million
dollars, you're looking at anywhere from, well upward to $100,000.00 to
' $150,000.00 of added cost unnecessarily. That was our basis for wanting the
special referendum. I think that is pretty basic and in no way did we intend to
ram something through before people got their tax statements. I don't think it
' occurred to anybody that people got their tax statements at the end of March or
April so we would beat them and they wouldn't know what they were paying in
their taxes.
' Mayor Chmiel: It would be later than that because of the time delay that we had
because of our budgets.
' Jeff Bros: Correct. So that was our basis for it is to gain that extra
building season and help reduce the cost of the overall facility. Again, as Don.
has supplied a letter that there is not money allocated obviously in 1990 for a
' special referendum, which we fully understand. I guess at this time what we
would like to do as a task force is we're looking for the Council's input as
into what direction we should take from here on out and we would like to modify
our recommendation that we will continue to collect survey results if you so
desire. A lot of us have spent many, many hours on this as volunteers. We
obviously don't want to see it just roll over and die. We feel that there is a
need and we feel there is a want in this community for a community center. We
' would therefore say that let's forget about the special referendum in March and
would the Council support it by putting it on the November ballot in the general
elections and opening it up to the citizens? With that said, we would also like
to stand ready to prepare a detailed site plans and operational budgets and
financial options but we need to know what your feelings are. I guess we know
as far as March. What about November? Where do we go from here?
' Mayor Clz►,iel: Okay. Thanks Jeff.
Jeff Bros: Jean has some comments also that she'd like to share with you.
' Jean Robbins: My name is Jean Robbins and I have been a member of the Community
Center Task Force for 2 years and I just want to review for the Council the
reasons why we need a community center. We have heard your input but I haven't
heard from the rest of the Council where they feel on this. I see basically 3
reasons. One, Chanhassen has a real shortage of facility space. The present
facilities that we have are inadequate. The population is growing and the need
' is going to increase. A center that we would build would appeal to all ages so
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City Council Meeting - January 8, 1990
it would serve the whole community. I have kind of put together here a list of IF
some of the activities that have either been cancelled or are functioning in
inadequate space at present. As far as the gym space, youth basketball, the
space is very limited. There's inadequate facilities for the number of IF
participants that we have. Adult basketball, the gym is too small. There's no
adult basketball program in Chanhassen. They have joined with Chaska and they
had to turn 2 teams away this year because they had inadequate space and the
scheduling has became very- difficult on Chaska as well. Exercise classes,
there's been numerous daytime and evening requests that have been turned down
because there is not facility for these. There's little or no opportunities for
daytime activities. For preschool children and for senior citizens. Dance
classes, there's a constant scheduling problem for these. We have no facility
or no good facility to host large events such as art fairs and these kinds of
things. There's a lot of scheduling problem now with the present facilities we
have trying to schedule the Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, voting and other things as
well as the other activities that they're trying to schedule. As far as the
pool and swirning activities, Lake Ann. The lessons are full every summer and
they have to turn children away so there would definitely be a need for more
facilities for that. Community rooms. Meeting rooms at the City Hall. You are
usually full. There's not a good spot for seniors and seniors really, they've
been crying for some room for a couple of years now and do not have a good
facility. There could be more opportunity for carnunity education if there were
more facilities available for that. As far as the ice sheet, right now we're
using the Shakopee bubble which is certainly not very desireable. There could
be broomball leagues, skating lessons. Right now we have skating lessons on
outdoor facilities only. A lot of the teachers will not teach outdoors so
there's a real limit for what we can do in that area. So these are just a
number of things that right now we do not have adequate facilities for in our
present situation and I can only see this getting worse as the population grows
and a carnunity center would address those. Secondly, community center at the
City site will allow the Chanhassen Elementary to develop additional classrooms,
additional gyms and supporting facilities that could be used both by the
elementary school as well as by the community. Thirdly, the community center
site would provide kind of a common denominator that would bring the City
together. It would also strengthen the downtown development and the community.
I think it's time for Chanhassen to start providing some of these facilities
instead of depending on the surrounding communities to provide the roost and the
facilities for a lot of these programs. Thank you.
Brad Johnson: I'm Brad Johnson, 7425 Frontier Trail. Chanhassen resident. A
couple things I'd like to clarify. I've been through this referendum twice '
myself so far and was in the phone campaign last year and up until we had the
Filly's question, I'd say we were running 3 to 1 in favor of this particular
thing. When we ran into the site question, we were not able, and probably
justifiably so, to overcame that particular question. I think Mr. Mayor that
the last survey, which was 330 people which is a legal survey, as legal surveys
go, and would be one that you would say was representative of the community. We '
had 79% for and 21% against. When we've gone out back into the community at the
present time, we came back with the same results. In our communications and
talking to other people in the CAA and people that we come talk to, we don't
really feel much negative. I personally went with my armor on over to the
Legion Club which was by far the most vocal and against last time and they came
out in favor of it at this time because they perceive, whoever was there, they
voted it and you can shake your head but I was there and they said yeah. Looks
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City Council Meeting - January 8, 1990
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1 fine and they were very negative last time. Now I don't know what the change
had been but they changed. I think that we have an indication that the
community is for it in ,numbers and we have not as a committee had very many
' negative people cage, as a matter of fact, hardly anybody come to us in a
negative feeling and I don't know where these people are. There are always
going to be people that are anti-additional tax. As you know, in any referendum
you're going to get 30% or 40% of the people that are anti-tax. We haven't even
' said we're going to increase or decrease taxes. We perceive that would be our
next 30-40 days work to determine how this thing would be financed and what
affect it would have on taxes. Our population has doubled in the last 5 years
' and it's very possible it will double again. Our cost on this community center
Tam is 3.6 million and it's bigger than the Eden Prairie Center which is
supporting 35,000 people so I think it's very adequate space. The one that you
' quoted about in Plymouth, because it costed too blasted much, is not going
anywhere. It's not an empty hole because the community could not afford one of
that size. The one in Chaska is far too expensive for a community center and
how they can afford it, I don't know but in the figures of 3 to 4.5 million
' dollars, we're fine. I'm very act, and it wasn't voted on. Okay? I'm very
active in the downtown community. I have' business people saying where is the
Chanhassen traffic. There isn't any. We have in the evening and during the day
very little reason for anybody within Chanhassen to come to Chanhassen and many
people perceive and as a matter of fact I've had a number of retailers come in
and say where is your community activities and we have to say Chaska because
there aren't any community activities in this community that draws the commiunity
' together. I think basically many of us have worked hard. We have had very few
negatives. We've come up with very creative ways of financing and in general we
save, thanks to Don and everybody, a million to 2 million dollars somewhere in
' true cost to the taxpayer in the methods that we're using. We've got the land
free here. The school district needs it and I think it's the job personally of '
this particular Council to allow it to go forward to a vote. Whether it's in
' March or April or next fall during the general election but at least once again
see what happened because we all admittedly know that last time the question was
not the center but it was the question of location. We had very few objections
this time around on this current location or any other location so I feel that
you should at least take the attempt to allow the community center, one. To put
the financial package together and allow the community, not 5 people who may
have received one or two letters, make the decision for the whole community.
' Mayor Chmiel: Brad, let me clarify the one or two letters plus all the calls.
Plus all the door pounding that we did last year. People indicating they didn't
want their taxes raised. That's the main issue. Now don't say that just three
letters or so. The representation as to the total numbers you had weren't as
good either.
' Brad Johnson: I'm just saying, we're not even saying taxes are going to be
raised. We haven't got to that point yet.
' Mayor Chmael: You don't think they will be?
Brad Johnson: We don't know. Like you say, you haven't received your tax bill.
' There are a number of different creative ways to finance this thing that it's
possible that that doesn't have to happen. But in our questions when we went
out and said, we think the taxes will be increased, the people that were there
and heard that still in general said they were in favor of it because they
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City Council Meeting - January 8, 1990 1
perceived it's necessary for the community but the only true way you're going to 11‘
find this out is bring it up to the community. Let them vote on it. That's
where I'm at. I think we had a decrease in taxes didn't we Don last year?
IF
Mayor Chzniel: Hopefully. People are sg even with the decrease their taxes
are still too high. saying
Brad Johnson: I think they're going to say that forever but they may not result
in if their kids get to swim. If their kids get to play basketball. If their
kids get to do a lot of other things or if they themselves get tired. Personally
tonight my family has driven easily 50 miles so that our kids. My wife just got
home, so that our kids can enjoy certain things like swinvting, skating, that
type of thing. None of which exists here. Good friends of mine that have
basketball adult leagues, I can go down and find them in Chaska. I mean that's
just the way it is. ' If you talk to Lori or anybody in this department, it's
very frustrating for them not to have any facilities in this community provided
simply because we don't happen to have I guess the senior high here. It's just
not a normal kind of situation and a cogm,unitl► center fills that role. I think
you should just let the people do it. I think it's unfair for 5 people to make
a decision for the rest of the community and I hope the paper quotes that. If
you guys want to make that decision, that's fine too. But I think it's unfair.
At this point. Okay? I know it's part of your job but you've also set us up as
an organization that's been working for 3 years on the project and we have not
found a lot of negatives. That's where it is. Thank you. '
Mayor CIriel: You haven't found any negatives and I haven't found any positives
from people I've talked to. ,
Brad Johnson: Well as I said, I've talked to a lot of people and I have not
found, we interviewed how many people down at the, whatever that was. We had.
Right, Oktoberfest. Very positive. I interviewed 50 to 100 people there. We
had a booth there. We have not run into the tremendous negatives. I think the
reason you don't have people here is because they don't perceive it's a big
negative. When you have something that people really don't like, they're out in
masses afraid that it's going to happen. Here they get a chance to vote and I
think the key is they get a chance to vote. It doesn't cost the community
anything if the referendum is during the month of November, this year because
there's going to be an election anyway and we can just find out. If they say
no, they say no.
Mayor C1viel: Anyone else?
Leneda Rabe: My name is Leneda Rahe. I reside at 1021 Carver Beach Road,
Chanhassen. I heard the presentation. Our group, the Concerned Citizens for
the Future of Chanhassen received the presentation by the Task Force. The
majority of us also felt that it was premature. There were only 8 people in
attendance that night I believe and I think there were only 2, I'm not sure.
Like he said, you have all those numbers, but we felt it was premature too
because there are other ways to solve the problems of not having swimming
lessons. I too have a hard time getting my kids into the swimming lessons at
Lake Ann and I've driven to Deephaven but there's just a lack of instructors. I
feel that adding instructors would resolve problems that and I do also feel that
a lot of my activities with my children in caw unity activities take place at
the Chanhassen Elementary School and we've had no problem getting in our Girl I
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1 ' Scouts and basketball and the other things that the kids are involved in. The
cormunity center's a good idea but we also, the majority of the CCFC felt that
it too was premature and we'd like to see the City look with foresight in
Iplanning the community center so it will benefit the city as it grows and when
there's enough taxpayers here to meet the need, because the community's where
we're taking our kids for like hockey and those other, where the facilities are.
I The swirming pools, those communities have 40,000 people or 20,000 and their
taxes are generating the money for then;. I just wanted to say that there were
some people that felt it was too premature. People that I've spoken with.
IThank you.
Cindy Gillman: My name is Cindy Gillman and I'm in Chanhassen. I guess I am
one of the other citizens that agrees with the letter that was sent to Mayor
I Chmiel. It pretty much summed up everything I've thought of. I've thought
basically the idea for the community center I never saw coming from the
community. I never saw neighbors talking about the needs we had. I don't know
I if you as Councilmerbers had people calling and wondering why Chanhassen did not
have their own community center. It seems to me it came out of a few people in
an office saying it would be great to have this for the City, and I think it
II would but I think at this time it's not the right time for it. Needs are being
met obviously by Eden Prairie comriunity center. I assume a great many more
needs will be met by Chaska's community center which is supposedly expensive. I
guess I agree with the letter and I don't see us needing it at this time. Some
I time in the future I'd like to have something that is great. That the location
is great. That the building is great. It seems that we can either afford a
building or we can afford land but we don't be able to seem to afford both right
I now and that says to me that our community isn't ready to support it if we can't
afford it now. Instead of mortgaging or selling bonds to the hilt so we're
strapped financially as a City in order to get swathing right now, let's sit
back and maybe acquire land now or do something else now for something in the
I future instead of we need it all right now.
Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. Is there anyone else wishing to address the issue?
IIJim Mady: My name is Jim Mady and I suppose you figured I'd be up here sooner
or later. The community center idea didn't hatch out of an office somewhere.
I Three years ago, almost 3 years ago this month, the Park and Recreation
Commission undertook a survey of the residents of Chanhassen. It was a
scientifically compiled survey. At that time there was one question on the
survey that asked the residents and we polled 330 residents. They were
Iselected, I believe it was every 8th house at random through the published
street directory. That's how it was done. At that time 80% of the people,
79.5% of the people said yes, we would like to have a community center in the
I City of Chanhassen. That's where the idea came from. A few months ago we came
in front of this body and asked you to give your input to us so that we would
know, should we go forward with public meetings to gage sentiment of the
I community. We held somewhere in the neighborhood of 12-15 meetings. The
results of the survey, we did not get 100% response on this survey. There are a
number of people who did not respond which is normal in any survey. We did
receive 76 responses. Roughly 80% of the people responded said yes.
IIChanhassen needs a community center now. We did not hurry this along or rush it
through. We've been working on it for 2 years. This particular proposal. 3
years for the total thing. For anyone to say we've been rushing it through, is
Ijust not following what's going on. We've been very open. Our meetings have
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City Council Meeting - January 8, 1990
been published in the paper. I guess we haven't gone door to door and told
everyone well tomorrow there's going to be a meeting. Be there. We've done our
best. Mr. Mayor, you know just through your Drug Awareness thing. You can't
get screbody there even though it's a great idea. You just can't always get 111
everybody there. That doesn't necessarily mean there's not interest. It just
shows that there's not a lot of opposition because when there's opposition to
something, they do come out. The first site, the downtown site next to Filly's,
we had a lot of opposition and people came out. We found that out with just the
F.ckankar church building deal. You had a lot of people here to fight against
something but we never seem to have a lot of people in favor of something and
yet it seems to pass. We're asking you to allow this it to go forward.
There's been a lot of volunteer work put into it. A lot of good hard work done
by some very well meaning residents of this city. I think we've been very open
and we respectfully would like to see the Council give us the go ahead to find
out what is going on. When we hear the negatives, two people tonight who spoke
against it. You've read one letter and you talked about a couple calls that you
received or a few calls or whatever. At the Oktoberfest booth, I personally
talked to approximately 24 people. I had 2 residents give me their reasons for
being against the proposal and the remainder,''all enthusiastically supported it.
They aren't here tonight. As a matter of fact, none of then came to any of the
meetings. Did not fill out any of the surveys but they're there. The people
are there. If you don't feel we have enough, we haven't talked to enough
people. Tell us the magic =fiber. Do we need to go out and get a petition with
200 people on it? 500 people on it? 2,000 people on it? We need to know what
we need to do. It seems like we're always battling at windmills here and no
ratter what we do isn't good enough. I want to hear from the rest of the
council and see what's happening. Thank you.
Mayor Ch Biel: Thank you. Is there anyone else?
Angie Banga: Angie Banga of Chanhassen and I would like to say first that I
concur with what the Mayor said. I'm not even going to try your last name. I
also, I try to keep fairly informed. I realize I'm not very informed in city
politics but I do read the Villager every week and I don't feel that I was
adequate informed about those meetings. I would have attended one. I'm sure I
missed it. I'm sure it was there but what I'm saying is, I don't think it got
that much publicity. No attendance leads me to believe that I'm not the only
one that feels that way. The other thing I would like to say is that I are a
taxpayer and let me tell you, it's tough. I've got kids in the school system
and when I consider a choice between supporting a referendum for the school
district and keeping our class size below 32 and supporting a community center
so my kids can do the extra things, I have to go with the education and I think
it's just the wrong time. In a few years when we have a better tax base and
we're able to do this, I'd say fine but right now our taxes are high and I think
our school system does deserve our support rather than a community center.
Thank you.
Mayor Qr.iel: Thank you. Is there anyone else? Hearing none, we'll bring it ,
back to the Council for some additional discussion and direction.
Councilman Johnson: We're sitting here with the same basic recreational ,I
facilities that were here when I moved in here 9 years ago. With the addition
of the outdoor recreation of Lake Ann that was completed at about that time. Now
we're adding more there. Last year we had 18 youth basketball teams in the '
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' City Council Meeting - January 8, 1990
Chanhassen Athletic Association playing at the grade school. This year we have
24. Next year we'll probably have close to 30 youth basketball tears trying to
' play in a small gymnasium and then splitting the large gym into half. They also
have to, cane in there Tuesday nights or Thursday nights for practice. Tuesday
nights at 6:30 you've got 12 teams practicing in those two gymnasiums.
Simultaneously. I've coached the basketball here for 4 years. This is my first
' year as not being a coach for quite a while. Thank goodness and it's very hard
to do anything with that many kids dribbling that many basketballs
simultaneously. Come to the next Pack meeting of the Boy Scouts at the
' gymnasium at the grade school. Acoustically it is the worse place in the world.
You can't hear a thing other than the drum of the parents who can't hear the
speakers talking so they start talking and then nobody can hear anything. We
need some good acoustical places for our youth to hold their meetings. It's
' very frustrating if you're not near the front to listen in that gymnasium.
Outdoor recreation just doesn't have much affect on. Swimming lessons. The
line starts at about 6:00 in the morning when they open at 9:00 in the morning
' for the summer swim lessons down at Chaska Middle School. People come out there
with sleeping bags to get in line so they can get their kids into the proper
swimming class that's held at the indoor pool at Chaska during the summers. I
' don't know how many sessions they hold there but it's tremendous and a lot of
people just don't get what they want or what they need. I thought it was very
telling that of the 58 people, I was really surprised to see the swimming pool
put as the highest need here followed by the gymnasium. Adult basketball is
almost non-existent. We don't have room for it here in Chanhassen and we don't
have the politics for it in Chaska. Volleyball reigns supreme in Chaska. You
go down there, I've never seen the adults playing basketball there but they're
' playing volleyball all the time. The middle school when I go down for my kid's
swim team. I don't think it's premature now. For being involved in youth
athletics the way I have been over the past 5 to 6 years, we really need more
' facilities. Our seniors meet in the cafeteria of the grade school. If you know
anything about hearing aids, you know that in a room such as that, people with
hearing aids can't hear a thing because they hear everything. They need an
acoustically much better place to meet. They need somplace that is not a
' gymnasium. My only concern is what is going to be the affect of the Chaska
community center. It's not going to have any affect on the basketball problems
or the Chanhassen Boy Scouts because I'm not going to take my cub scout down to
' Chaska to have meetings in their community center. That's getting ridiculous.
As is I know Brad's kids swim in Eden Prairie on the Eden Prairie swim team I
think. My kid swims out of Chaska. At least I stay in the same county. I
' always like to give the Fox Jets a hard time if I can. • Things just aren't
offered here that we should be offering. We are big enough, 10,000 people.
Hutchinson runs a swim program. Chanhassen doesn't. I don't know how big •
' Hutchinson is. I don't think it's as big as Chanhassen but it's a free standing
community so it has to have those things. I'd like to see the financial side of
this. That's the next question. Where's the financials? I think that's the
next step and I think we should direct the community center task force to go on
with that next step. I'm not sure if March may be too soon, especially if the
tax bills aren't out by March because I think quite frankly, as a proponent for
this, I think what you're going to see on the tax bills in March is going to
' help the community center vote versus decreasing it. From what I've heard is
that our tax bills are going to go down the second year in a row. I know that
we're doing some fairly spartan things within the City to hold the line here in
the City for taxes and we have for several years but we can't continue holding
the line in decreasing service with increased growth. The grade school is over
' 47
•
City Council Meeting - January 8, 1990 1
crowded and if this can get them same relief, some more special ed rooms. Sane
more computer rooms. Whatever they're going to get out of this. I think
they're going to get like 3 roans, 5 roans. All and all I see it as being
important. I don't see indoor tennis or a banquet roar, being important. Weight
room didn't do too well. Whirlpool and sauna didn't come out too well in the
surveys. Those were all under half of the people said they wanted those. I
really think that it's going to be an asset to the connmnity and it will help
our school district. It will help our children and it will help the image of
the community. But I do need to see what it's going to do to taxes. We've got
to see that financial side before we go to referendum and we have to have
information and that's the next important step to go that I think we need to
authorize. That's my comments.
Mayor Chmiel: Thanks Jay.
Jeff Bros: Going along with what Jay said, from our research that we've
gathered from other communities that have put up anything from complete ice '
arenas to complete centers similar to what we're looking at.. .financing for
these facilities that other conmunities have come up with that have not been a
tax burden at all in other communities. I hope, again I hope that the Council
will allow us the opportunity to go look at this. We certainly as a group and
residents of Chanhassen have no intention of taking away from the school in
monies that would be allocated for student useage. Again, this plan, the school
district has preliminarily agreed to add between 5 and 7 multi-useage rooms out
the back side of the school. Again, it's going to do nothing but help
Chanhassen elementary and the school district in the long run.
Mayor Clr,iel: Anyone else wishing to jump in?
Councilwoman Dirtier: I guess I want to say again that I was a member of the
task force and I think that we worked hard and I think we did a good job. I do
see that we did a thorough research but I also believe that we have to consider
the non-attendance as not a negative and not a positive but an indifference. To
me that means indifference. I think that we should not argue as to who's survey
is correct. I think the task force survey is correct and other surveys add
additional information that supplement one another. I have to say that I had 6
callers representing all the areas of Chanhassen and I gave them from October
until now to do their calling. The results of that was mostly a few yes's, a
few no's and much indifference.
Jeff Bros: What were the questions that your caller's asked? ,
Councilwoman Dimler: Just simply do you think that we need or want a community
center in Chanhassen. I just had one question. I
Jeff Bros: No specifics as to location, cost?
Councilwoman Dimler: No. Let's just first determine if we want it and if we '
want it, then we'll decide. Okay? And I know that you had a whole lot of more
information that you were looking for and I agree with that but my basic premise
was to find out do we even want it. Do we need it. So that was the results of 1111
that. I think that some of the comments here are unwarranted. I don't think
that the task force had anything in mind as far as deceiving about property
taxes or that thing. I'm relatively sure of that having been at the meetings ,
48
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tCity Council Meeting - January 8, 1990
but I also find that this letter does address the 76 people not representing a
majority when you have about 12,000 residents so I think we can all agree that
' that's not a good representative survey. I guess some of the task force renbers
that were not able to be at the last meeting did call me and asked me to make
sure that the Council understands that the March referendum decision was not
unanimous even within the task force and also that the location decision has
never been unanimous. Most of the residents that I spoke to in greater detail
still indicate that they want an independent site. Maybe purchase the land now
and build a state-of-the-art community center in some future date. I also got
comments that a lot of people that have children in high school and junior high
feel that their students, their children are going to be using the Chaska center
simply because they are in District #112 and because they have friends in that
' district and they're going to want to go to the center with their friends. And
so any types of programs that we plan for them here in Chanhassen, we're going
to have to come up with something mighty terrific to draw them away from there
and that would be one of the things that I would say that when we do to a
' community center, that Chanhassen should be looking at having something that
Chaska doesn't have. That Eden Prairie doesn't have. Something that will draw
them here. I also had some comments as to if waiting will drive up the costs
' and I think my position on that has always been and it has not, the task force
has never really considered it, is that that's a good argument if the project is
a profit raking venture. But for a non-profit raking venture, it simply means
that we're going to take the taxpayers money sooner or later. TO re, in this
case, later is better because the money could be drawing interest. Also, if you
build later, you're going to have, maybe with inflation, you'll be building it
cheaper. So that argument about if it's a profit raking venture and bringing in
' money, yes. That would be a consideration but this probably will not be a
profit raking venture. It will probably be a break even at best and perhaps
even cost and maintenance. We don't know that yet.
Jeff Bros: However, it still is a revenue producing facility.
' Councilwoman Dirtier: It's a revenue producing facility but you may have costs
that extend or go beyond the revenues.
Jeff Bros: Hopefully not. Looking at other community centers...
' Mayor CIv1iel: Jeff! Can I interrupt you please. I'd like Councilwoman Dimler
to finish her statement and then if you'd like to say something after that, I'd
IIbe more than happy to.
Councilwoman Dimler: Okay. Again, the people I've talked to from the different
locations, I'll tell you what their concerns were. The people in southern
Chanhassen and in the Minnewashta area indicated that they would use the Chaska
facility because it's closer to them. Okay? The people at, I didn't really get
a response from the people at Near Mountain although I did have someone survey
' that and they never got back to me. But from people that I've talked to
personally in that area say that they don't believe at this time, and that is
where the taxes are so high that they're not real interested so that knocks out
Minnewashta. That knocks our Near Mountain. That knocks out southern than and
basically the interest is coming from the downtown or near downtown Chanhassen
area. But I am concerned that we're not representing a lot of the people in
' Chanhassen at this time.
49
City Council Meeting - January 8, 1990
Brad Johnson: Ursula, would it be okay if we just did another survey of 330
people randomly selected in the community like we did last time... Why don't we
just do that? What was our cost last time?
Councilwoman Dimler: Again, I think you're going to run into that indifference '
factor and you're not going to get an all inclusive reading.
Jeff Bros: Not if we randomly sampled 300 to 500 people. How could we not? I
Councilwoman Dimler: How are you going to pick your random sample?
Jeff Bros: Every 8th number out of the phone book... '
Councilwoman Dimler: I guess one of the things I have about surveys is that
I know that I tend to do this myself. If scmeone calls me to survey me, I may
have feelings that I'm not really going to express because I want to say
something pleasing to the surveyer or the questions can be misleading or they
can, you know. I'm not sure that a survey at this point, another survey is
going to do the job.
Brad Johnson: Then let's do a referendum, and find out. You've got 5 people up
here making decisions and we're sitting out here...
Councilwoman Dirtier: Well we're getting indifference though Brad and that's
what I'm saying. I
Jeff Bros: Okay, but let us put together a financial package and see if that
indifference stays...
Councilwoman Dirtier: Well I think we've done that. I know we've done that.
Jeff Bros: We have not. We've cane up with same rough estimates as far as cost
but we haven't said how we can pay for it. We have the tax increment money.
The options are endless for financing. We may not have to tough tax dollars.
That's what we're asking for. All your people response to taxes going up. They 1
may not. At least give us the opportunity to find out what the citizens want.
You say we've got 76 back. You've got 5.
Councilwa+an Dimler: No. That's not what I said. I said I had 6 callers that 1
called in their neighborhoods.
Jeff Bros: But like you said, you don't trust surveys because you don't know 1
how the questions were asked.
Councilman Johnson: Yours is the most biased type of survey. '
Councilwoman Dimler: Well, rerarber my prefacing comment that your survey's
correct. Every survey is correct. They supplement one another. It's not this
one's correct and this one isn't correct.
Jeff Bros: At least our surveys were based on information given to the people
that we had at that time and it was a direct response from the information that
they were given. Yes. No. Do you like it? No. Are you willing to pay for
it? Yes. No. Whatever. It wasn't just do you want one. I mean we gave...
50
City Council Meeting - January 8, 1990
I
Councilwoman Dialer: Wasn't that the basic what we have to start with though.
First you've got to find out if they want one or not.
Jeff Bros: But you've got to give them something to base that opinion on.
Yeah, everybody wants one.
Councilwoman Dialer: No they didn't. That's the point.
' Jeff Bros: At some time they want one. Whether it's now or 5 years from now.
People want one. So what are you going to base your decision on?
' Councilwoman Dimler: Well I base my decision on the fact that there was a lot
of indifference out there and I'll have to tell you, one of the callers was Dave
Zaunon. I'm sure that you are aware that he did sane calling the last time to
garner support. Brad, you know him.
' Brad Johnson: Yeah.
' Councilwcran Dialer: Okay, and he was trying to gather support for the
community center and he ran into such indifference that he gave up.
' Jim Mady: One of your callers Ursula talked to pie back in October I think it
was...Minnewashta and she was so uninformed as to the proposal that she
literally could not ask her any questions. She told me, because she didn't know
how to answer them.
Councilwoman Dimler: The question was, do you want a community center. That's
real simple.
Jim Mady: But she couldn't get responses...
Councilwanan Dialer: That's why we kept it so simple. Well, I'm sure that that
' is a simple question and you get a yes or a no.
Councilman Johnson: Or you get a question back.
Councilwoman Dimler: If they show any interest, yeah. Like I said, we got a
few yes's. We got a few no's and we got a lot of indifference. That's what I'm
' basing mine on.
Jeff Bros: Maybe another survey will help to push those one way or another.
' Mayor Chmiel: Bill, do you have same comments?
Councilman Boyt: I think Tom's next.
Mayor Ctmiel: I asked you if you had any comments Bill.
' Councilman Workman: I can step right in. Step in where others dare to step.
I'd like to see a ca'rmunity center. I start out every argument with that. My
two young daughters probably don't know what they're passing quite yet. I'm a
Minnesota State High School League basketball official and I'm having a lot of
fun with that and I do a lot of varsity games. I do same 6th grade girl
I51
City Council Meeting - January 8, 1990 1
basketball games to varsity games. I know about every gym in the metro area. I It
think I've been in every gym in the metro area and without a doubt Chanhassen
has the worse gyms, including St. Hubert's, in the metro area unless you go to
Waconia. They've got a private school. This rippled tile stuff is terrible. It
It's dingy in there. I wouldn't play basketball on it. I'd hurt myself. It's
terrible. Kids are closer to the ground. They don't get hurt. There's no
doubt that I'd like to see 4 new gymnasiums in town. I'd rather see gymnasiums
than hockey. Hockey is a big, big expense and a big, big question for people. I
know that most of the people on the task force that are very much for this have
a very strong interest in the hockey so there's, as you present them, community
center with hockey arena or community center without. I don't and haven't
really been a hockey player. I do enjoy ice skating and it's, you know just
because I don't care for it doesn't mean we shouldn't have it. It is a very
expensive part of this and I'd like future discussions to maybe highlight that a 11 little bit. It looks a little bit like we've got to have this ice and people
are really concerned about that expenditure item and I know that you guys have
figured it out where it's not going to cost us a cent. Nobody's using the word
free yet. There are some residents in town that are very much hockey. When I
grew up in Chaska, and I went to high school 'in Chaska, when you thought of the
hockey team, most of the people on the hockey team came from Chanhassen. I
think Chanhassen's much more of a hockey area with the lakes and Minnetonka and
that all breeds off of that and I've talked to an awful lot of people. I would
assume I've talked to a hundred people on this. I ask everybody I run into.
I'm disappointed that our community center hasn't really changed an iota since
the Chaska center has gone up. Unfortunately we're part of that Chaska
community somewhat. They're adding two big new gymnasiums down there. They're
adding a huge hockey arena. They're adding just about everything you can
imagine. It's unbelieveable. I do believe that that affects us somewhat. 'I on
the other hand think that's unfortunate because I'd like to have our own
community identity and I'd like to have our own community centers. Own gyms.
Hockey arena. I'd like to have everything. Curling ice. We could have curling I
tournaments and things. But again, I've asked just about everybody that I've
run into, neighbors. There is a deep, deep concern about taxes. I wouldn't be
doing my job Brad if I didn't reflect those concerns. Unfortunately for all the
Council we've been elected and it's our job to make some tough decisions. We
talk about increasing the size of a have by $3,000.00 and that can price
somebody completely out of the market. Well, $50.00 taxes, $100.00, whatever,
can impact somebody also. People are definitely in a nervous mood about taxes.
Another comment that I heard quite often and this gets back to the hockey arena.
I'm leaning on the hockey arena because I think that's a part that people are
very much nervous about. These are Chanhassen residents who are saying why
should we build a hockey arena to support the Minnetonka Hockey Associations.
Now we're going to develop our own hockey associations, etc. I'm assuming and,
pardon me?
Brad Johnson: We already have one.
Councilman Workman: Yeah I know but not enough support for own ice. I mean '
. we're going to be drawing in an awful lot of people and so again, I'm just
telling you what I'm hearing. There's an awful lot of nervous people about
community center's attachment to the school district. Chaska specifically did It
not want it attached to the school. They didn't want the school to have any
part or control of that community center. What happens if it comes a very much
youth centered facility and so we start to forget sane of the people on the I
•
52
11
1 City Council Meeting - January g, 1990
other end. The elderly, etc. when kids are always using it and I've been in
that Eden Prairie center. They are jammed out of that thing. I tell you. I
' couldn't stay in there much longer. It was pretty wild in there. They have
kids in the lobby doing classes and stuff. They are packed. And again, I think
we've gone over some of the refinements of how this school district and city
marriage will work and whether or not it will affect us or not but I'd like to
look a little bit more at that. Chanhassen should provide facilities for it's
citizens. Getting back to this rotten gyms idea. But we're again a unique
comrainity. We're nothing like Chaska. Chaska doesn't have much pulling on it.
' Okay? We have, I lump Shorewood, Excelsior, Minnetonka into one category.
They're pulling on us up there. Those people up there on that north end, I
don't know how often you've just surveyed that area but I think you'd find, I
' think you know this that those people go that way. They like to live that way.
They like the Minnetonka school district, etc.. Eden Prairie pulls on some
people. People will buy groceries on the south end down in Shakopee and of
course there's the Chanhassen people that get tugged on so we are a community
' that's very much pulled on. How do we build that cohesiveness? I think that's
something that the task force should also be asking. Maybe we build the
cohesiveness by getting the community center. That helps. Maybe it does. Maybe
it doesn't. People are again nervous. I'm not going to get into the argent
about surveys. I'm about at the end of my comments. Thanks heavens for all of
you. I guess I'm not adverse. I are adverse to a referendum in March. I've
been told by people that, no. They don't want to do that. I've been told I
1 think Jeff, you guys that you don't want this to be a political decision so you
want to have it stand alone and let people decide. I think this is very much a
political issue. As political as any we've seen. I wouldn't be adverse to it
' being on the ballot in Novarher. That's a big, big question for people. I
•
think we may be jumping ahead again on whether or not we can afford the building•
at all. Don Ashworth, the magician just might come up with it but again, people
' emphasize to me that they aren't interested in bonding out because when we do
that we give up same capacity that we could use in other areas. There is a
middle school coming. A new middle school coming to the district within...
Brad Johnson: 5 to 6 years.
Councilman Workman: That's not too long. That's not too long, if you go by
' highway construction. Again, I want to tamper sane of the arguments in that I
appreciate the efforts of the task force and I don't want to tell you thanks.
See ya. Your efforts have been worthless. I know Brad. Brad's got a lot of
' energy in this thing and I know you all do so I'm not going to tell you you're a
bunch of fools for looking at this because again, I think it's a favorable
thing. I think when you ask people do they want a community center, you think
about a pool that your kids can swim in and a nice gym and I can't think of
' anything more desireable. I think a lot of the people who have talked to me
believe the same thing and they'll say they want a community center but.
There's always this big but. And so that's where I'm a little bit on this fence
' of yeah, I'd really like it too and I think you can include me in that group of
people that say, well but I've really got to see more. Maybe the task force
needs to draw the Council a little more into what it's doing. I haven't felt
' like I was a very big part of what was going on. I know Jeff, you and I were
going to try and get together. We never were able to and I suggested to Lori
that Jim and you and I get together and sit down. I just haven't been much a
part of this and that's again, not a reason not to vote for the thing but I
think the task force could do a better job of drawing us all in. Us, meaning
' 53\
City Council Meeting - January 8, 1990 1
the voters. The people in the different diverse areas. I don't know. Maybe I
the people at Lake Minnewashta are thinking of going to Victoria or Chaska or
wherever. I think Chaska jumped into their community center because they didn't
want to go in with us. That was a suggestion. A three, tr -community community ,
i
center. Could have built it for •20 million or something. I think they wanted
their own. They also wanted their own identity but I'm not afraid to let the
community make the decision. I think it's going to be a tough decision and
again I'd like to see it draw for the retail community in town and everything
else and there's a lot of pluses but people are nervous and for me, as a
Councilmerber to discount those people which I think are in at least a 75%
majority, if not more, into my face, then I'd be doing a disservice. And so I
think we'll perhaps see something and we can take it to then and they can
decide. That always gets sticky too but that's where I have to stand at this
point. '
Jeff Bros: ...financial packages for this. Secondly, if you take it to the
ca«iunity and let then, vote on it in March or November, that's fine but that
easily answers every question you've got Tom.,,
Councilman Workman: Right. Absolutely. And I don't need you guys to figure
out the financials of it. I have the magician right down here. ,
Jeff Bros: Well we've been assigned as an entity by the Council to do that for
you. j I
Councilman Workman: I know but I'm just saying, it is a 3 month process but the
options, we're kind of aware of that and it's been indicated that taxes will
raise. That's where people are nervous.
Jeff Bros: But again, give us the chance to find out. Like I said, there's a
lot of different ways to finance this that are beyond everybody's... I
Councilworan Dimler: Excuse me. Jeff, at one point when we talked about
putting it on the general, you indicated or the task force indicated that they
didn't want to do that because that would rake it a political issue because of
an election year. Have your feelings changed on that?
Jeff Bros: I still, personally, I would like to see us... But I feel strongly
enough about the community center and the want and desire in this community for
that facility that right now I'll take it any way I can get it. Now I'm not
speaking for the rest of...I'm speaking for myself. By the time your 3 to 5
year plan that you're talking about, my young children are going to be out of
the schools. They ain't going to be here anymore to use it. They're going to
be in college. They're not going to be using it. They'll take me over there in
a wheelchair and walk me around. I can see it. You see this is the whole idea.
We have same...we don't need to build a 50 million dollar facility... Chaska,
you're right. It's a top grade center but we looked at their package and as far
as we're concerned, we don't see why anybody else would need to have that big a
facility. Those are things you've got to weigh in. They didn't vote on their
center down there. You talk about one getting rammed through. Whether the
people down there like it or not, I don't know but that's what happened. They
didn't even have the chance to vote on it yes or no.
Councilman Workman: They had a $5,000.00 telephone surveys every week.
54
1 City Council Meeting - January 8, 1990
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, myabe if we could just, TUN if you'd.
' Councilman Workman: I'll just wrap up. Again, I've told you that I'm not
adverse to that and my last comment. There's a lot of mistrust out there.
There may be on this Council. There may be with me about that zealousness, just
' like in cigarette vending machine zealousness. People look at you and say, well
what's the motive. It starts to become a personal thing and people start to get
nervous about it and so this is another point that I've picked up from people is
that the hockey crowd or you know, how many people skate. How many people do I
' know that skate. 2% of the population of kids that skate so. Is it 3%?
Jim Mady: I don't know about what you know but it's not reflected in the
' survey.
Brad Johnson: Somewhere close to 40%.
' Councilman Workman: I would 40% of the families in this city don't have kids
that skate hockey.
' Brad Johnson: Not to play hockey. Skate. You can't schedule.. .
Councilman Workman: I'm talking hockey. I'm sorry. Let me be more specific.
' Because the hockey crowd is usually the crowd that is seen as pushing it.
Brad Johnson: You're going to hear this from us a hundred times Tom that the
' rink doesn't cost anything. It supports everything else. It provides the
operating income you need to run the center and you may not believe that but
that's what happens. That's why Edina doesn't have a community center. They
just have hockey rinks. That's why Minnetonka doesn't have a community center.
' They just have hockey rinks in their community center because it supports it.
It's not an expense. That's why they don't have gymnasiums. Things you need
prograrming for and why they don't have...
' Councilman Workman: Again, that's your job to convince people because they're
not convinced Brad. And so we can talk about it, I know we can talk about it
all night and the Mayor's getting ready to swing his gavel.
' Brad Johnson: We had two of you on our task force periodically. Jay and Bill.
' Councilman Johnson: Ursula and Bill.
Brad Johnson: Ursula.
tCouncilwoman Dialer: Thank you for remembering.
Councilman Workman: Well Brad, the task force has lost same people who haven't
' always gone along with it has it not?
Brad Johnson: I'm not sure.
' Councilman Workman: Has it become basically a group of people that really just
agree that the community.
55
City Council Meeting - January 8, 1990 1
Brad Johnson: Most people have turned around and go along with us.
Councilwoman Dimler: I can answer that.
Councilman Workman: I'm just saying. Let me finish up comments.
ng P j my co
Brad Johnson: We have votes and you have to have votes. We have 10 to 12.
Councilwoman Dialer: I wasn't there for the last vote. Several other people
weren't there so that's why I brought up the fact that it wasn't unanimous and
they did call me. I would say that being one of the members that worked hard
against the Filly's site, that yes. We've been to the meetings and we have
given some input. I'm not sure that we've always been listened to or had our
points taken into consideration. They're just kind of been ignored. I know
that several of the other people have told me that they don't feel like coming
to the meetings because of that. So yes, we have lost some.
Jeff Bros: Then why weren't they at the public meetings? If there are so
many.. .
Councilwoman Dimler: Why would they want to go, they don't want to make it look '
bad in public. You know what I mean? They're not going to go to a public
meeting and say, hey I'm on the task force and the rest of the people didn't
listen to me. '
Mayor Chmiel: Can I clarify something here? I don't want a debate going back
and forth. This isn't the issue. I think we should curtail that and I'd like
to move on to Bill.
Councilman Bost: Thank you. Thanks also for moving this it up on the agenda.
I'd hate to think of what time this would be if we'd had it at our normal
schedule. I'm not going to beat many of the bushes twice other than to say that
3 years ago when I was appointed to the first task force, we researched the
issues in depth. Maybe went to a vote a little too quickly. Ran into, as •
everybody knows, a tough issue and narrowly lost. A handful of votes. Well
when that was over, in all good faith I didn't think we should start up again
but the Council, 3 of which aren't here now, directed the task force to
reconvene and to see if there was some way that they could put together a
proposal the community would support. I don't think whether we individually
support the community center or not is the point. I think the point is, as many
of you mentioned, what do you think the community is going to do on the
community center. But after 3 years of studying this thing, sometimes rather
intensively and sometimes not, I can tell you that there is just a tremendous
amount of information out there. One of the challenges is for the task force, 1
or any group, to educate the rest of the people about what they've found. In
good faith the task force I think has looked at every issue. In good faith the
task force went out and openly accepted people who were vehemently opposed to
the first one in the second task force to try to get some sort of cc/triunity
sense of what will be acceptable. I think they've got that. I think that the
last time the task force was criticized for going without input. Without enough
input from the ccrmiunity. Going back. Getting the referendum and with about 6
weeks, trying to educate the community. So this time what they did was they
went out to community groups and asked then. What do you think? Granted. It
was 76 people. 76 more than last time. I think we can all have personal '
56 '
City Council Meeting - January 8, 1990
11
1 opinions and hopefully people have sorted out what our opinions are. I happen
to think that the community center is a darn tough sacrifice to ask the
community to make but I think it's one they want to make. I think that if we
believe the community is in fact going to support the community center, we ought
' to have a special referendum because it saves $100,000.00 and that's a
tremendous return when you look at spending $10,000.00 to save $100,000.00. Now
if you think the community's going to turn it down, then go to November with it
because I don't want to be on this and deny people the right to vote on an issue
that narrowly lost last time. Especially if we can't do it in March, then I
think we should put it on the November ballot and I think we should make a
' motion to do that tonight so the task force knows what they're working with. To
keep them, for 3 years, I'm not surprised that the people have fallen out of the
task force. How do you keep people motivated to gather data when they don't
know what the outcome, what their chances are going to be? And so I'd like to
' see the community center task force directed to prepare for a referendum either
in March, April or in November and let's give the voters a chance to tell us
what they want to do.
' Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Hopefully we can move along rather quickly. Is there a
motion on the floor?
Councilman Boyt: Well I would move that we direct the task force to prepare for
a March referendum.
' Mayor Chmiel: Is there a second?
Councilman Johnson: Don, do you think you can get the financial sides done with
' the task force in time to educate the public about the financial side? I take
that back, because we can't educate the public. To fairly provide that
information to the public if they want to be educated about it, that they can
' learn about it. We can't force anybody to read the Villager. We can't force
anybody to come to a meeting. The apathy factor is high. I'm thinking March
eight be too soon.
' Don Ashworth: I think so as well. One of the reasons would be, and I did
mention this to the committee the other night. I would bring in Dave
McGillvarey of Springsted. There's been a lot of nice acculays for myself this
evening but I think that our bond consultant should do a majority of the work.
There's some innovative financing alternatives that have been presented to the
catmittee. I will continue to state that I'm not that enthrilled with some of
' them but there are sate alternatives which could reduce the costs. I would
anticipate that McGillvarey could have his work done within a month, if that's
sufficient time. But I would say that's the amount of time that it would take
him.
' Councilman Johnson: So you're talking mad-February. Then another probably 2
months as far as I'm concerned to try to get the word out to the people so we're
' talking mad-April.
Councilman Boyt:t You just don't want to miss the building season. That's how
you save your money. If we end up...
• Councilman Johnson: You're not going to get the 1990 building season. There's
no way we're going to put plans together and break earth in 1990. 1991 building
57
City Council Meeting - January 8, 1990
season's the first building season we're going to break earth on. I
Brad Johnson: If you have an election in November to...1992.
Councilman Johnson: Exactly. That's why I'm looking at May rather than March. ,
Councilman Boyt: Well I'm alright with that if you'll second the motion. '
Councilman Johnson: Yeah. If you'll go a May-June tfr eframe for a referendum.
I want to see the financials and that also gives us some time for the financials
to came back with sale major Impact on taxes in this town. It gives us a chance
to turn around and get some, right now the public opinion is without the
financial. Once we get the financial information in, that's when the apathy
starts stopping. Tell me what it will do for me but tell me what it will do for
my wallet. There's a large portion of people in this town that are anti-tax.
There's a large portion of people in every town. As I talked to councilmembers
across the nation, it's the same everywhere. Nobody wants anything to do with
raising taxes right now. A motion says continue to get us the financial package
and a referendum in the May-June timefrar'e, I'll second.
Mayor Chmiel: Is that an amendment to Bill's? 1
Councilman Boyt: Well I accept it.
Councilman Johnson: Then I'll second the motion. '
Mayor Qr1iel: There's a motion. Any further discussion?
Councilman Workman: I've got to get back to kind of an underlying point that I
had. I don't think your motion is going to pass.
Councilman Johnson: You seemed to be for it from what you said. You wanted to
find out the financial information. You wanted to find out...
Councilman Workman: That's right. I'm not for a special referendum. I don't '
see it happening before November. I think what you're doing again is, do we
want a community center that is going to go into a referendum on a 3 to 2 vote?
Would we be more interested in going in on a referendum that's a 5 to nothing
vote. Having every council member for it. Having every council re ber going
out and saying, I'm for it. You don't have that right now.
Councilman Boyt: You're not going to have that. 1
Councilman Johnson: You never will.
Councilman Workman: Yeah you could. Yeah you could. Absolutely you could.
And that's what I've been getting at tonight. You can be a soothsayer or you
can be whatever. I'm just saying, well then maybe the community center's out
forever then. There's sane people that would like to hear that too.
Councilman Johnson: Well it doesn't have to be a 5-0 vote. 11
Councilman Workman: I'm just saying, let's try. It's not going to happen in
May.
58
City Council Meeting - January 8, 1990
11
1 Mayor C niel: Jay, my clarification as far as a community center, I say we need
one. Now is not the time. I really feel that way. say
Councilman Johnson: I agree but I say let's put it to the voters and let the
people speak.
Mayor Chmiel: That it's from 3 to 5 years yet away. It's the taxes that people
are basically afraid of. You're going to have some additional taxes coming with
Carver County. With the increase of a courthouse for 2 judges. Two more court
roams. Two more judge's chambers. That's going to run 2 million dollars plus.
1 That's coming right around the corner. And there are probably some other things
that are we will have another 5 to 6 years too. Other schools and junior high
in Chanhassen. If we continue with the baby booming as we are now, where the
' school here, our grade school is bulging literally, there are sane more dollars.
Now those dollars are all going right back to our constituents within this city.
Those dollars are going to be taxed somewhere and can those people keep up with
it. People that I have talked to are people who are concerned about it.
Councilman Johnson: So what we're saying' is let's get the information together
because the people do not have a full packet of information at this time. We do
II not have a full packet of information to make a decision on it at this time.
Let's let the community center go forth with Don and Springsted and find out the
information. Give us the information on which to make an informed decision. At
' this time we tentatively schedule, well I'm not that opposed to a November
referendum. I'm not sure, the cost of money. Inflation's going to go up.
Taxes are going to go up. The cost is going to go up by inflation. It probably
all washes out. Our tax base has been beating inflation. We've been increasing
our tax base faster than inflation's increasing so I'm not sure if the delay to
November isn't going to be a terrible one but I'd like the community center task'•
force to know that we're going to bring this to the people. That we're not
going to cane out and sit on it because of our personal opinion. I want to get
the opinion of the people and I want to get the information...
Councilwoman Dimler: Jay. It isn't personal opinion. We've done these
surveys.
Councilman Boyt: I think that the Council probably pretty accurately reflects
the community on this issue. That there is going to be a substantial split. I
suspect in my mind that it will pass but I don't think it's going to be easy and
I think the issues that have been raised tonight are probably pretty accurately
' reflective of what the community is thinking. But I'd like to see this thing,
as you would, decided by the voters. If Tam says he's not going to support it,
it's pretty clear that Don and Ursula aren't going to support an early
referendum. So maybe we can just go with November and see if that passes.
Personally I'm comfortable with 3-2. There's a lot of things we've decided 3-2.
I'd like to move on this so we can get back to the rest of the agenda. It's
either going to go or it isn't.
Councilman Johnson: So you want to withdraw your motion and modify it to a
November referendum?
Councilman Boyt: Sure.
59
1
City Council Meeting - January 8, 1990 1
Councilman Workman: I would, this isn't a motion. I would tend to want to make II)
a motion not committing myself to November at this stage. I'd like to get more
input but I'm not going to commit myself to November at this point. I
Councilman Johnson: It's so early. By saying we're going to go for November,
if something comes up to show us that it's totally infeasible for some reason,
we can withdraw. '
Councilman Workman: And we can add.
Councilman Johnson: We can take away but I think we owe it to these citizens
that have been working for 3 years, 2 years. Same of them 2 years. Some of
them 3 years on this to show them that there's some hope in the future. What
they're going to see here is, do we want to continue working on this because the
Council assigned us to work on it and now the Council may not even ever put this
to referendum. In fact by law I don't think we actually have to put it to
referendum but I think something as major as this in this town, I think I want
to hear from the people. Referendum style.
Councilwoman Dimler: I have a comment. I guess I'd agree with Cindy Gillman's
ca►ments that this movement was not initiated by the citizens. Grass roots
movement okay? From what I've been hearing and what I'm getting is that most
people are indifferent that yes we'd like to have it but sometime in the future.
Not in '90. Maybe not in '91. Maybe 3, 4, 5 years down the line. I hate to
see us keep wasting everybody's time and also there is the option that if it
really is a grass roots movement, even if we don't put it on in November. In
1991 those people can sign a petition. They can get a grass roots movement I
going and then you will hear from the people.
Councilman Boyt: What's it take for a petition Don? For the community to
require a referendum.
Don Ashworth: I'm not sure that there is such a thing is there Roger?
Roger Knutson: No, there isn't.
Councilman Johnson: Especially since we don't even require a referendum... I
Councilwoman Dimler: Not to require one but let's say, I would like to see it
not be that it be a referendum but that we want a community center. I'd like to
see that be a grass roots movement.
Jeff Bros: Ursula, I don't work for the City. I called Lori and asked her
after the last...
Councilwoman Dimler: I'm not saying you work for the City but you have a
special interest. ,
Brad Johnson: Who doesn't have a special interest in this City. It's our
community...
unity... i
Councilwoman Dimler: But so do all these other people that aren't being here
represented. They all do too.
60 '
City Council Meeting - January 8, 1990
11 Mayor Chmiel: Let's just hold it down.
Jim Mady: Can I ask my question again Don?
' Mayor Chmiel: Go ahead.
Jim Mady: How many people do we have to get on a petition before you'll listen
' to us?
Mayor Chmiel:iel: There isn't any numbers.
Jim Mady: Give us a number.
Mayor Chmiel: There isn't numbers.
Councilwoman Dimler: How many does the opposition have to get before you'll
listen to them? Same question.
' Councilman Boyt: Well, I'd like to call a' question on the motion and let's get
this dealt with.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, we have a motion on the floor and a second to November for
a referendum.
Councilman Boyt moved, Councilman Johnson seconded to put the Community Center
to a referendum vote on the November ballot. Councilman Boyt and Councilman
' Johnson voted in favor. Councilman Workman, Councilwoman Dimler and Mayor
Chmiel voted against and the motion failed with a vote of 2 to 3.
11 Councilman Johnson: I was going to move that we direct the task force to
continue on in the financials and report back to us on the financial aspects of
the community center by tax day, April 15th.
' Councilman Boyt: Then what you're directing than to do is spend money.
Councilman Johnson: That's right.
Councilwoman Dimler: That's right and we don't want to do that.
Councilman Boyt: I'm supportive of that but I just want everybody to know that
when you start getting Springsted involved, you're talking money.
Councilman Johnson: We're spending money because we have to know. I mean it's
a big issue in this town. It's not the kind of issue that you're going to solve
by ignoring it. Fran what I think, the majority is apathetic and then the next
largest group I think is for it in my personal opinion because the group of
people. You know Ursula you have your group of people who you call okay and
that is a select minority of this town.
Councilwoman Dimler: So is that one. That's what I was saying.
Councilman Johnson: And I have my group of people...
61
City Council Meeting - January 8, 1990
Councilwahan Dirtier: And they're all supplemental
Councilman Johnson: ...that I work with which is 500 families in this town in
the Chanhassen Athletic Association.
Councilwoman Dirtier: And that's a select group of people.
Councilman Johnson: That's a select group of people and I feel that 500 people
of various persuasions is for it. So that's my motion now.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay Jay has a motion on the floor.
Councilman Boyt: Second.
Councilman Workman: For what? To do the study?
Mayor Chmiel: Do the study. ,
Councilman Johnson: Financial.
Councilman Workr'an: We don't know how much it's going to cost. I
Councilman Johnson: That's what I'm asking to find out. '
Councilman Workman: How much is the study going to cost?
Mayor Chmiel: What's the study going to cost us from Springsted? '
Councilman Workman: $10,000.00? $58,000.00? What are we going to pay? I'm
going to vote on something that's going to cost something I don't know. I mean
quite rushing it Jay.
Mayor Chmiel: Give us a round figure Don.
Don Ashworth: If you recall, Springsted's proposal included x number of hours
that they would do as a retainer. I would anticipate that past the retainer
about, I would attempt to insure that they did not bill us for it. I
Councilman Boyt: But they're taking hours out of others?
Councilman Johnson: Out of the retainer. '
Don Ashworth: Taking hours out of the retainer. In addition it would be my
position that they would be doing work for an upcoming referendum and that if
that bond referendum would pass, that their fee schedule is such that they
basically retain their money.
Mayor Chmiel: The Council by a 3 to 2 vote already indicated that there won't
be a referendum in November. There is that vote.
Councilman Johnson: But there could be a new vote after we get the financial
information.
i
62
City Council Meeting - January 8, 1990
11 Don Ashworth: $1,000.00 in addition to the 6 or 7 hours that supposedly we have
credited to us.
Councilman Johnson: $1,000.00 ona 3 to 4 million dollar decision? Be nuts.
Get the information so our people can make an informed decision.
Councilwoman Dimler: But they won't be making it this year so why rush it?
' Councilman Johnson: Geez, why don't we wait to the next century? We've got 24
basketball teams trying to play on 3 courts. We play from 8:00 a.m. in the
morning to 1:00 in the afternoon.
Councilwoman Dimler: You are still...for a special interest group.
Mayor Chmiel: Jay. There may be the availability now at the junior high and
the senior high if Chaska is going to take their people from.
' Councilman Johnson: I'm not bringing my,second graders to play basketball.
They don't have the baskets either.
Mayor Chmiel: They do with hockey and pee wee, they go all over.
Councilman Johnson: They don't have the facilities for second graders to play
basketball.
'
Councilman Boyt: Gentleman, are we going to vote on somethin g here?
' Mayor Chmiel: The question is whether or not we spend $1,000.00 at the present
time to ensure the total 3.4 or 5 million dollars that we've been discussing.
There's a second. Did you second that Bill?
' Councilman Johnson: I made the motion. Bill seconded.
II Councilman Boyt: That the committee be directed to investigate the financial,
the specific financial hmplications and tax burdens.
Councilman Johnson moved, Councilman Boyt seconded to direct the Community
Center Task Force to prepare financial information to bring back to the Council
by April 15, 1990. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT MODIFYING ZONING RESTRICTIONS AND LOCATIONS FOR
' CONVENIENCE STORES, GAS STATIONS AND AUTOMOTIVE SERVICE STATIONS, SECOND
READING.
Paul Krauss: At the last City Council meeting the Council gave first reading to
' an ordinance regulating convenience stores having gas pumps. Among other
things, the ordinance establishes a minimum separation of 250 feet between gas
pumps and 100 feet between the pumps and residential parcels. The Council gave
' it first reading with a couple of changes and those have been incorporated into
the ordinance. One of the changes was based on Councilman Johnson's concern
that the 100 foot setback to residential be measured not only from the gas pumps
themselves but also from the vent pipes from the storage tanks. And the second
63
City Council Meeting - January 8, 1990
one was that the requirement be placed on conditional use permits that are I
granted for these operations that they have a waste oil collection facilities.
With those changes, the ordinance is basically the way you had modified it at
your first reading and we're recommending that it be approved. a I
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, is there anyone wishing to address this at this particular
time? If hearing none, any discussion? I think what we have here is what Paul
indicated. Tying in our concerns that we had from the previous Council meeting. '
Upon reviewing this, I think he has met all those specific recommendations.
Councilman Boyt: I've got one point if I .rmight. Item 8(6) . It's on page 4 of I
the ordinance.
Paul Krauss: I think you were looking to delete it from the CBD district? '
Councilman Boyt: Central business district.
Paul Krauss: Yeah. That would have to be in, Section 20-734(4) on the existing ,
Code.
Councilman Boyt: Section...That's where you've got it listed now. ,
Councilman Johnson: As a conditional use. Bill, the inner section where the
current Holiday. I
Councilman Boyt: Okay, maybe we have the wrong district.
Councilman Johnson: That's Business Highway at that point. It
Paul Krauss: The existing ordinance is already established convenience stores
with gas pumps as a conditional use. We hadn't proposed changing this in this
amended ordinance.
Councilman Boyt: Well, that's what I'm proposing. ,
Paul Krauss: Right and what you would need to amend is Section 20-734(4) of the
existing ordinance were convenience stores with gas pumps are listed as a
conditional use.in the CBD district.
Councilman Boyt: Okay. That would be my intent.
Mayor Clmael: Could you give me your reasoning on that Bill. I
Councilman Boyt: Well, I think when I started out, I know that the Council that
started this had several different motives but mine was simple to stop the
multiplication of convenience stores with gas pumps in our central business
district. We've got enough and I think that that's solved by just not allowing
it in the district.
Councilman Johnson: We have one.
Councilman Boyt: What about the one that's already been approved down in right '
down here.
I
64
I
CITYOF 7 6—
1 ). .......:,„ CHANHASSEN
1 . : ,
., •
.. •
.:. , 690 COULTER DRIVE • P.O. BOX 147• CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900 • FAX (612) 937-5739
MEMORANDUM
1 TO: Don Ashworth, City Manager a.JC
FROM: Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation Coordinator Zr' S
IDATE: January 4, 1990
1 SUBJ: Community Center Task Force Recommendation
1 Last fall the Community Center Task Force was directed by Council
to present their findings regarding a community center to the
various community organizations. The Task Force made presen-
tations to Chanhassen Senior Citizens, Rotary, Lions Club,
I American Legion, Fire Department, 'Hockey Association, and the
Concerned Citizens for Future Chanhassen. Their purpose,was to
determine if there is support for a community center in
1 Chanhassen.
The presentation included information on both the Lake_ Ann site
II and the City Center Park site. Cost estimates, possible
financing, facilities, need, etc. , were discussed. Following the
presentation, a questionnaire was distributed to find out how
residents felt about a community center. Attached please find
I the results of the questionnaire. The Task Force found that the
results of this survey are identical to .he survey done by the
Park and Recreation Commission in 1987; !9% of the people sur-
' veyed are in favor of a community center.; Task Force members
will be present on Monday evening to present additional infor-
mation and to answer any questions the Council may have.
IRecommendation __, , _ - A_.._..�.. . . - ,.- '
Based upon the survey results,, it is the .recommendation of the
1 Community Center Task Force tolproteed `with plans for a community
center in City Center Park by establishing a special referendum
date of March 27, 1990; and to *uthorize the preparation of
Ifinancial package options. --.,.,
k The Community Center Task Force stands ready to prepare detailed
site plans, operational budgets, and financial options so as to
11 present such to the City Council at their February 12, 1990
meeting.
Ii
1
•
January 4 , 1990
Page 2 I
Manager ' s Comments : The Community Center Task Force met in the
Courtyard Conference Room last night to discuss their presen-
tation to the Council Monday evening. Knowing that I was here,
Lori had called me in to respond to a specific question regarding 11 the availability of tax increment/leasing options. While sitting
there, I was trying to remember whether we had retained three
elections in the 1990 Budget (primary and general as required by
law and special referendum (optional] ) . In checking with Jean
and Tom this morning, I find that such had been identified as a
cut during the worksessions and that the final budget did not
include monies for a special referendum. Accordingly, if the
Council were to reconsider that position, special funding/
reallocation would need to be considered. If we were in a mid-
year position, it would be much easier for me to potentially
identify areas where reallocation could occur. However, as we ,
have barely started the 1990 year," should the Council act to
favor the special referendum process, this office would ask for
additional time to identify potential areas where those monies
could be reallocated from.
LQ.1/49.A. 01,ejE)
Y'°(
11
•
CITYOF
: CHANHASSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE • P.O. BOX 147 • CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900 • FAX (612) 937-5739
MEMORANDUM
TO: Community Center Task Force
FROM: Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation Coordinator '
' DATE: December 13 , 1989
SUBJ: Community Meetings and Questionnaire Results
The meetings with the different community groups have been
' completed. The questionnaires were distributed, returned and the
tallied results are enclosed. K
The Task Force must now review the results and formulate a recom-
mendation as to whether the City should proceed with a referendum .•
and, if so, when. The next meeting of the Community Center Task
Force will be held on Wednesday, January 3rd at 7:30 p.m. in the
' Courtyard Conference Room. The Task Force's. recommendation will
be presented to the City Council on Monday, January 8th.
1
1
,
1
1
1
1
COMMUNITY CENTER QUESTIONNAIRE RESULTS
Group Totals
Number Surveyed: 76
1. Do you support building a community center in Chanhassen?
Yes 58
No 15
2. What would you like to see the community center consist of? ,
, 22 Wading Pool , 5B Swimming Pool
52 Gymnasium 46 Racquetball Courts ,
52 Meeting Rooms 54 Ice Arena
23 Banquet Room 46 Senior Center
46 Exercise Room 2B Sauna '
27 Weight Room 27 Whirlpool
19 Indoor/Outdoor Tennis 3 Other I
3. Would you be willing to assist in informing Chanhassen resi-
dents of this issue for a referendum? ,
4. Based on the information presented to date, where would you
like to see the Community Center located? I
13 Site east of and adjacent to Lake Ann
45 City Center Park (adjacent to Chanhassen Elementary) '
4 Either
9 Other, Specify where:
I
t
i
t
Dues't i onai r e
,Page 2
1S. Do you support holding a special referendum for a community
center in early 1990''
I Yes 44
Na 24
lease share any additional comments or concerns you may have
el ow:
1 See individual group totals for comments.
I
il
I
I
I K
I ..
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
COMMUNITY CENTER: QUESTIONNAIRE RESULTS
Group: Concerned Citizens for the Future of Chanhassen
Number Surveyed: 7
1. Do you support building a community center in Chanhassen?
Yes 2
No 5 (4 said not at this time)
2. What would you like to see the community center consist of?
2 Wading Pool 6 Swimming Pool I
5 Gymnasium 4 Racquetball Courts
5 Meeting Rooms 6 Ice Arena ,
4 Banquet Room 4 Senior Center
3
Exercise Room 1 Sauna
Weight Room , 2 Whirlpool 1
1 Indoor/Outdoor Tennis Other
3. Would you be willing to assist in informing Chanhassen resi— ,
dents of this issue for a referendum?
NAME (Optional )
TELEPHONE
• 4. Based on the information presented to date, where would you
like to see the Community Center located?
3 Site east of and adjacent to Lake Ann I
City Center Park (adjacent to Chanhassen Elementary)
Either
6 Other , Specify where: Adiacent to new Middle School
(NOTE: Some marked 2 of the above choices)
1
i
j
1
1
Oueetionaire
Page 2
5. Do you support holding a special referendum for a community
center in early 1990?
I Yes 1
No 6
'Please share any additional comments or concerns you may have
below:
II* If and when we build a center, we should be looking at the
future expansion,etc . Let 's not restrict ourselves just to get
one now. If we need to wait to end up with a quality product,
'then let' s wait.
* I just think it ' s a little too rushed. I want to see what hap-
IIpens with a middle school , etc. first. I would love one, but I'm
not sure Chanhassen could afford one right away - maybe in 2-5
years.
II* That Chaska is building a community center, and Chanhassen may
not need one now. Just build an ice arena adjacent to the new
middle school . It is an ideal proposal and would be fun, but it
Teems the school sight is reasonable. Lake Ann sight sounds good.
4
* Should be phased in - see what impact Chaska Community Center
"as.
* Make sure the schools in our district are in better shape.
It I think we need to take care of middle school and elementary
chool needs before we act on this.
1 .
I
II
1
II
I .
,
II
s
COMMUNITY CENTER C!UESTIONNAIRE RESULTS 1
Group: Chanhassen/Chaska Hockey Association
Number Surveyed: 6 1
1. Do you support building a community center in Chanhassen?
Yes 6
No
2. What would you like to see the community center consist of?
2 Wading Pool 6 Swimming Pool
5 Gymnasium 5 Racquetball Courts '
5 Meeting Rooms 6 Ice Arena
1 Banquet Room 2 Senior Center ,
2 Exercise Room 1 Sauna
Weight Room 1 W}ii r l pool
1 Indc'cor/Outdoor Tennis Other
3. Would you be willing to assist in informing Chanhassen resi-
dents of this issue for a referendum?
NAME (Optional )
TELEPHONE I
4. Based on the information presented to date, where would you
like to see the Community Center located?
Site east of and adjacent to Lake Ann
5 City Center Park (adjacent to Chanhassen Elementary) '
1 Either
Other, Specify where: ,
1
1
1
1
IQuesti onai re
Page 2
11
5. Do you support holding a special referendum for a community
center in early 1990?
Yes 6
No
I
Please share any additional comments or concerns you may have
Ibelow: -
* I would be willing to have my taxes raised to have this
building built. I would also like to see this on it's awn vote
December - February.
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COMMUNITY C:ENTER QUESTIONNAIRE RESULTS
Group: Chanhassen Fire Department
Number Surveyed: 13
1. Do you support building a community center in Chanhassen?
Yes B
No 5
2. What would you like to see the community center consist of? 1
2 Wading Pool 7 Swimming Pool
5 Gymnasium 6 Racquetball Courts '
5 Meeting Rooms 9 Ice Arena
1 Banquet Roam 6 Senior Center
B Exercise Room 3 Sauna '
7 Weight Room 3 Whirlpool
1 Indoor/Outdoor Tennis Other 1
3. Would you be willing to assist in informing Chanhassen resi-
dents
of this issue for a referendum?
NAME (Optional ) 4
TELEPHONE I
t. Based on the information presented to date, where would you
like to see the Community Center located?
2 Site east of and adjacent to Lake Ann
9 City Center Park (adjacent to Chanhassen Elementary)
Either
I Other, Specify where: Victoria
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ilQuestionaire
Page 2
5. Do you support holding a special referendum for a community
center in early 1990?
I Yes 7
No 5
IIPlease share any additional comments or concerns you may have
below:
II * Are there plans to bring up the pathway system again? .
* If we want community identity, build a high school .
II
* Let private enterprise take care of the city's needs. As far
as I'm concerned, the city' s sole function is to provide the
IIcitizens with basic needs, such as polic ,, fire, sewer & water ,
etc. These are things every tax payer benefits from. I there is
a need for such a facility, why have no private entrepenuers come
' forward. Answer : It is not cost effective. Such a facility
cannot be self-supporting no matter how people, such as yourself,
manipulate the figures. I have yet to see anu government run
operation, effectively managed.
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COMMUNITY CENTER QUESTIONNAIF:E RESULTS 1
Group: Chanhassen American Legion
Number Surveyed: 18
1. Do you support building a community center in Chanhassen?
Yes 13
No
2. What would you like to see the community center consist of?
6 Wading Pool 13 Swimming Pool I,
12 Gymnasium 8 Racquetball Courts
11 Meeting Rooms 11 Ice Arena
5 Banquet Room 13 Senior Center 1
9 Exercise Room 9 Sauna
7 Weight Room 8 Whdrlpool 1
5 Indcocor/Outdoor Tennis Other
3. Would Y ou be willing to assist in informing Chanhassen resi—
dents of this issue for a referendum?
NAME (Optional ),
TELEPHONE
4. Based on the information presented to date, where would you
like to see the Community Center located?
5 Site east of and adjacent to Lake Ann
7 City Center F'ark (adjacent to Chanhassen Elementary)
1 Either
1 Other, Specify where:, No where 1
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Questionaire
F'age 2
. Do you support holding a special referendum for a community
center in early 1990?
I Yes 7
No 10
IFlease share any additional comments or concerns you may have
below:
IWe don't need a community center.
* I don't like the idea of government being involved in child
I are. Psychiatrists say it is the destruction of the American
amily. As a taxpayer , I don' t think this sahauld bew in the
City budget .
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COMMUNITY CENTER QUESTIONNAIRE RESULTS
Group: Chanhassen Lions Club
Number Surveyed: 17
1. Do you support building a community center in Chanhassen?
Yes 15
No 2
2. What would you like to see the community center consist of? i
4 Wading Pool 14 Swimming Pool
12 Gymnasium 13 Racquetball Courts
12 Meeting Rooms 11 Ice Arena
, E Banquet Room 7 Senior Center
13 Exercise Room 8 Sauna
9 Weight Room 9 Whirlpool
5 Indoor/Outdoor Tennis Other
3. Would you be willing to assist in informing Chanhassen resi-
dents of this issue for a referendum? 1
NAME (Optional ) Charlie Robbins. John Wright . Dave Potz
TELEPHONE 1
4. Based on the information presented to date, where would you
like to see the Community Center located? I
3 Site east of and adjacent to Lake Ann
11 City Center Park (adjacent to Chanhassen Elementary) I
1 Either
1. Other, Specify where: West on Hwv. 5 — Cheaper land
Transport Seniors, Bus Daycare -
Latchkey
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IIuestionaire
age 2
IL. Do you support holding a special referendum for a community
center in early 1990?
1 Yes 12
No 1
lease share any additional comments or concerns Y ou may have
below:
IIDo not endorse increase in taxes.
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COMMUNITY CENTER QUESTIONNAIRE RESULTS
Group: Chanhassen Rotary
Number Surveyed: 10 1
1. Do you support building a community center in Chanhassen?
Yes 10
No
2. What would you like to see the community center consist of?
4 Wading Pool 9 Swimming Pool
10 Gymnasium 10 Racquetball Courts I
10 Meeting Rooms 9 Ice Arena
5 Banquet Room 10 Senior Center
9 Exercise Room 6 Sauna
4 Weight Room 4 Whirlpool
4 Indoor/Outdoor Tennis 2 Other
3. Would you be willing to assist in informing Chanhassen resi-
dents of this issue for a referendum?
NAME (Optional )
TELEPHONE '
4. Based on the information presented to date, where would you
like to see the Community Center located?
Site east of and adjacent to Lake Ann
9 City Center Park (adjacent to Chanhassen Elementary)
1 Either
Other, Specify where: '
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Questianaire
"Page" 2
15. Do you support holding a special referendum for a community
center in early 1990?
Yes 7
IINo 1
IIPlease share any additional comments or concerns you may have
below:
* Parking should be increased in City Center choice.
II
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COMMUNITY CENTER QUESTIONNAIRE RESULTS
Group: Chanhassen Senior Citizens
Number Surveyed: 5 (We spoke with approximately 35 people, but
only 5 chose to return the questionnaire. )
1. Do you support building a community center in Chanhassen? '
Yes 4
No 1
2. What would you like to see the community center consist of?
2 Wading Pool 3 Swimming Pool '
3 Gymnasium Racquetball Courts
4 Meeting Rooms 2 Ice Arena
1 Banquet Room 4 Senior Center.
2 Exercise Room Sauna
Weight Room Whirlpool
2 Indoor/Outdoor Tennis 1 Other (Toddler Pre-School )
Would you be willing to assist in informing Chanhassen resi- '
dents of this issue for a referendum?
NAME (Optional ) '
TELEPHONE -
E. Based on the information presented to date, where would you i
like to see the Community Center located?
Site east of and adjacent to Lake Ann
4 City Center Park (adjacent to Chanhassen Elementary)
Either '
Other, Specify where:
1
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1lDuettionaire
Page
115. Do you support holding a special referendum for a community
center in early 1990?
"�
II Yes 4
No 1
IIPlease share any additional comments or concerns you may have ha
below:
* As a Senior Citizen and former Chanhassen resident, who now
II
resides in Waybury Apts. (Jonathan) , I still am active in the
Chanhassen Senior Citizens Center. I have always felt that Chan
IIneeded some place for our young citizens to congregate. Senior
Citizens also need aplace that is available for visiting,
reading, or just abserving others. This place should be open
I everyday to us. Most of us stay home at night so our Center
could be used for other purposes in the evening. Best of luck to
you in pursueing this project. It is badly neededby us all .
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