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11. Mappy of TH 101 Right of Way Hoisington Group Inc. / �• Land Use consultants MEMO To: JoAnn Olsen, Planner ' - "��' - Usti ;,(1))1 ;,d to ;„j From: Fred Hoisington, Consultant 6/7 /43_ ' Subject: Official Mapping of Trunk Highway 101 ,Date: 5-31 -89 _ 1 On April 5, 1989 we presented three (3) alternative alignments for future TH 101 between Highways 5 and 212 for review and comment. At that time the Planning Commission unanimously, but informally, supported Alternative 1. Since the Planning Commission's review of the alternatives, the Hoisington Group Inc./BRW, Inc. Team, along with City Staff, has conducted a public information meeting the results of which are enclosed for the Commission's review. The general conclusion of that session was that either Alternative I or 3 would be acceptable. On April 24, 1989, the City Council selected Alternative 1 as the preferred alternative which is to be the subject of Official Mapping. The Official Ma pp in g process is part of the larger process of estabItshing a ' preliminary Highway 101 alignment and formulating land use plans that will later be incorporated into the City's evolving Comprehensive Plan. The final results of the HG/BRW Study will be completed in late June. The subject of Official Mapping is that segment of future or proposed TH 1-01 lying between the southerly line of the Rosemount entrance from Market Boulevard to the northerly line of the proposed TH 212/101 _ interchange. The interchange will be officially mapped as part of the ' = Official Mapping of TH 212 which will also be considered by the Planning - Commission in the near future. • ' - As will be seen by reviewing the preferred alternative, Alternative l moves Hwy 101 approximately one (1) single-family lot easterly of present TH 101 causing it to traverse some rather difficult terrain. All three (3) non-status quo alternatives result in a highly variable vertical alignment. What this means is that some rather substantial cuts and fills will be required to accommodate the roadway no-matter the alignment. 7300 Metro Blvd Suite 525 EUlna, MN 55435 (612)835-9960 This translates into additional R-O-W needs to accommodate- cut and fill slopes which are in keeping with MnDOT standards. The future TH 101 is proposed to be a divided highway able to accommodate vehicles at speeds up to 55 mph and having a median 25 feet in width. The roadway is proposed to have curb and gutter which requires less R-O-W than a roadway that would have ditch sections. None the less, the R-O-W requirements to accommodate a roadway having this crossection and traversing undulating ground requires a R-O-W width of approximately 200 feet. Originally, we had hoped to accommodate the proposed roadway within 150 feet of R-O-W but having established a centerline profile and I translated that into a general grading plan, find that additional R-O-W will be required to accommodate cut and fill slopes that meet MnDOT's standards and landscaping that meets clearzone requirements from the I traveled pavement edge. The additional R-O-W on the westerly side of the centerline will also allow for some berming and landscaping to protect the single-family homes that will ultimately back to future TH 101. If it is I determined during the course of the design of the highway that less R-O-W will be needed, less can actually be taken but in the interim, the purpose will be to protect a minimum of 200 feet of R-O-W throughout the corridor. As the Commission will see in reviewing the proposed R-O-W map, there is I one area near the south end of the Ward property where 250 feet of RO- W is proposed. The reason for this R-O-W bubble is that it correlates with a fill condition and the rule-of-thumb to be used in taking R-O-W is south, lit I should correlate with the extremes of the fill slopes. Further sou , slopes will exceed the 200 foot proposed R-O-W but will be within areas designated on the Land Use Plan for open space preservation. These areas correlate with wetland areas. The purpose of Official Mapping is to protect the R-O-W for needed future I roadway improvements in the event a landowner might wish to propose a development within the roadway and thereby block the City's ability to I satisfy access needs. What the Official Map does is gives the City the authority to deny a building permit. It also places a burden on the City to m have to acquire R-O-W that it chooses not to allow to be developed. If a II request for a building permit is made, the City will have six (6) months I 2 i r within which to decide either to purchase the property or, in lieu thereof, ' to issue a permit. The reason the Official Mapping of this segment of roadway is so important ' is that it will not be built for several years and landowners may be interested in developing the property prior to the construction of future TH 101. Official Mapping also qualifies the City to utilize RALF funds for ' the acquisition of R-O-W either in hardship or imminent development situations. Because of the status of TH 101 as a temporary State Trunk ' Highway, we cannot say for sure that RALF funds will be available for this segment of roadway. ' If the Planning Commission and City Council approve the Official Map as proposed, the R-O-W will be described and recorded at the County Courthouse as the officially protected TH 101 corridor. I will be available at the June 7th Planning Commission meeting to review the Official Map and answer questions. PLANNING COMMISSION ACTION ' The Planning Commission recommended approval of the Official Mapping in conformance with the concept presented by Fred Hoisington for the right-of-way to be described and recorded at the County Courthouse as the "Officially Protected TH 101 Corridor" . 1 I 4'-':-\ , to \\ , �� .4 7••4 / •471 •r f .r ! \ / cif • i '� ' { ) � •... -°.. . ' ,14" t \ -;,1),ROPOSED-. 1.10r.isa . , , . .,.1 i ......i -„,%„-,,,,..1/2,-pr.,.. — - ft app....NV• t• �`:.�._ I ' am * . A - .r ` i nisi" 1.1". 3 71.3 0.0 `\ • •i il ; _ ,�.4 M , ✓ :-*,,.. .§ • l \`\/ 11 I , ::sect::.':•• /.! \ ,,• ,, ....#°':i'f{tea:,, �k•.• , • y.•• 111 .,. ,, { '- Lake Susan - ,�• \\., °'_ t\ I c , . t I f,�j r' -*I,..1-; 1 J : fir • / i to er Rr.• �•,` ''�'FUTURE ACCESS •'L.... 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I .:' 1 . 1 . 1 .... ..._ . if.\ -.. , 'r.- .• • -. *• . .. 1 4.--- I 1 lite I C IW .. - ' ...,<.: 1 , j ' --...,■. . :'-!'sq' '-'•' ) 1 N I •11 .44 /• i I • 1 , • .,. I • - . / cl I 41111100.0 •)\ I 1 =-1 1 I F 1 z 1 - 1 . 1 _ I __, 11 c\ L. .4 ...NM IM .1.••••.0 - ... ••• - ••••• ■•• •••■Nd■•■• , 111 II Illialliirm• ,.; _ - s . • -1.'`ri'z -- IMP. •• ::,,..14..„„,ir, = ' Hoisington Group Inc. Land Use Consultants March 30, 1989 Chanhassen Planning Commission City of Chanhassen ' 690 Coulter Drive Chanhassen, MN 55317 Re: Preliminary Highway 101 Alignment Study Attention: Steve Hanson, Planning Director ' As you are aware, Hoisington Group Inc. has been authorized to complete a Y g P p ' Preliminary Alignment and Land Use Study for those portions of Highways 5 and 101 from the Carver County line to proposed State Trunk Highway 212. One of the purposes of the study is to establish an appropriate alignment connecting Market Boulevard to Trunk Highway 212. Another major purpose of the study is to look at Highway 101 as the south entry to Downtown Chanhassen and give consideration to a landscaped median . ' The latter objective was fostered by the City Planning Commission. Enclosed for your review are three alternative alignments for future Trunk ' Highway 101. We would like to discuss them on April 5 and elicit some input from the Planning Commission prior to presenting them to the City ' Council on April 24. A recommendation of one of the alternatives by the Planning Commission would be appropriate input to the City Council. There will be public hearings on the Official Mapping of the selected ' alignment at a later date so the purpose of this preliminary review is to identify a preferred alternative. I will be available at the April 5 meeting to present the alternatives and look forward to your comments at that time. ' Sincerely, i Fre Hoisington Consultant ' 7300 Metro Olvd Suite 525 Edina.MN 55435 (612)835-9960 1 I I OF .. ,. _\ _ ; 4.I1 ,ti., • . :�ti . �R MD.,. ,, / I Key: \. - s I SI Singie Fam11 . --a ∎ ;• t_ . �, -+ R•MO Medium Density Multiple ,e_=++%•�,;-} _„sf. C Commercial : . �`,; ",tix' OF Office Latta e4J.a�+ A_` , ` • , :.s.1 i.'.. I OS Open Specs ,..•i ,� k-sR:T.�` S /4 _. . ° ;4 , II • ,. 1 ( ,.'• - • -.. - ,'. • -424;•,..-, -_ -.••:,. ..•-; ._._•- -.- I- %T.... „c5 ...-. - ' '-/ -..,ti ; i . R-MD •1 r ( I H.21 1 t - s . IN ... 1 1--" ALTERNATE #1 M � lileoit� ww�, I .. .,�. x .M.-•• 1 ' ..,.........:„..w......... Hdsington Group Inc. UN St5 "" Li..rw si 3 I �a" ..4440.+Piw.+4, OM 11.1S-9960• ` r. ,4 . *. , • 1 Hoisington Groinnc. CITY OF CH NHASSEN Land Use consultants MEMORANDUM MU i I n ' APR 19 1989 To: Gary Warren, City Engineer ENGINEERING DEPT. From: Fred Hoisington, Consultant Subject: Selection of Preferred Trunk Highway 101 Alignment ' Date: 4-18-89 BACKGROUND The Hoisington Group Inc./BRW Team was commissioned by the City of Chanhassen to undertake a study of alternative alignments for TI-I 101 and Land Use throughout the Highway 101/5 corridor from the east Carver ' County line to proposed TH 212. This memo, however, deals only with the preliminary alignment decisions that must to be made for TII 101 as they will impact the Official Mapping of TH 212. The purpose, then, of this interim step, which will ultimately include an overall land use plan for the corridor, is to establish the most appropriate ' alignment for TH 101 between Highways 5 and proposed 212 considering the multitude of factors that bear on such decision. We have met with each of the principal corridor landowners including Al Klinglehutz, Keith Bartz, Jim Curry and Pat Hoffman representing the Ward interests. We have met several times with City Planner Steve Hanson and Planning Consultant Mark Koegler to be sure that alignment and land use proposals are consistent with the evolving Comprehensive Plan. We ' presented the alternatives to the Planning Commission on April 5 at which time an informal poll of the members indicated unanimous support for Alternative 1. In addition, we conducted a public information meeting on ' April 17, 1989. We presented and received comments on four alternative alignments for TH 101. A summary of that meeting and a list of those in attendance is attached. ALTERNATIVE DESCRIPTIONS For all of the alternatives, the northerl y and southerly termini are same. The givens are Market Boulevard on the north end which will the ' constructed in 1989 to the south line of the Rosemount, Inc. entrance. The south end ties directly into the south leg of TH 101 at Lyman Boulevard 7300 Metro Blvd. Suite 525 Edina.MN 55435 (612)835-9960 thereby eliminating the present "s" curve which utilizes Lyman Boulevard as part of TH 101. All of the alignments have these termini in common. While the overall purpose of the study is to formulate land use recommendations throughout the corridor, the intent of the land use presently shown on each of the plans is to evaluate potential and flexibility not to ask for land use approval. Land use must necessarily be a consideration in establishing an appropriate and compatible alignment. It is important to note that TH 101 will not be constructed for many years. It will probably done in conjunction with the development of TH 212. The reason for doing this study now is to be sure that the TH 212/101 interchange, which must be Officially Mapped in the near future, will be compatible with the alignment of TH 101 and the City's plans. Alternative 1 Alternative 1 includes a relatively minor detachment of future TH 101 ' from present TH 101 and establishes a tier of single-family lots between these two roads. It bisects the several affected properties in an efficient - ' manner and creates useable parcels of reasonable shape for future development purposes. While it represents a greater environmental impact than Alternative 4, it has a -lesser impact on wetland areas than either Alternatives 2 or 3. It will also allow for the immediate Official Mapping of TH 212 because it calls for no redesign of the TH 212/101 interchange as it is presently proposed by MnDOT. It is one of two alternatives that is preferred by the affected neighbors and it is the only alternative, other than Alternative 4, that is agreeable to the affected landowners. Alternative 2 Alternative 2 represents the easterly most alignment with rather sweeping curves and the severest of wetland encroachments. It creates some very peculiarly shaped parcels while placing the roadway close to the residents on Tigua Lane. It is an alternative that is not preferred either by landowners or the neighbors and it would require some modification of the interchange and delay the Official Mapping process for TH 212. 2 C i IAlternative 3 Alternative 3 is a middle ground that takes the horse barn that was Ioriginally owned by Keith Bartz and is now owned by Andy Freseth. It provides the least direct access to downtown Chanhassen and represents I the most significant change in the TH 212/101 interchange. There are also questions about the feasibility of the interchange and its spacing from the interchange that is proposed for County Road 17. It is an alternative that I is generally acceptable to the neighbors because it takes a middle alignment but it is not supported by affected landowners. IAlternative 4 Alternative 4 essentially represents the continuing utilization of TH 101 Iexcept for its relocation at TH 212. It leaves the roadway immediately adjacent to the Lake Susan residences and is the least attractive from a I traffic standpoint in that it would have direct driveway entrances to TH 101. All of the other alternatives would have accesses only at public streets. Obviously, Alternative 4 is the least expensive since it would be I constructed as an undivided highway and would not require the amount of right-of-way (R-O-W) that other alternatives would. Alternatives 1, 2 and 3 would each require 150 feet of R-O-W to accommodate a divided Iroadway with a median. Attached is a matrix which illustrates our evaluation based on ten criteria. IThis evaluation suggests that Alternative 1 should be the preferred alternative. IRECOMMENDATION I The Consultant Team recommends that the City select Alternative 1 as the preferred TH 101 Alignment and that it proceed to undertake the Official Mapping of that alignment during the month of May, 1989. IAttachments: 1 1. Summary of Public Information Meeting 2. Attendance List at Public Information Meeting I3. Plan Alternatives I 3 I I. CHANHASSEN - HIGHWAYS 101 ALIGNMENT ALTERNATIVE COMPARISONS CRITERIA ALT #1 ALT #2 ALT #3 ALT #4 COMMENTS 1. Compatiblity with Existing Land Use + + - - Alt 3 - Loss of structures ✓'•.. Alt 4 - Close to Lk Susan residents 2. Access to Downtown + + - + Alt 3 - Circuity of travel 3. Land Use Effect (future) + - + - Alts 2&4 - Close proximity to res; odd land configurations 4. Minimal Environmental Effect + - - + Alts 2&3 - More wetland (trees, creek, wetlands) intrusions 5. MnDOT Schedule (Official Mapping of 212) + - - + Alts 2&3 - Delays Official Mapping 6. Neighbor Acceptance + - + - 7. Cost - - - + Alt 4 - undivided, less R-O-W 8. Conformance to Topography +/- +/- - + Alt 3 - All fill r" 9. Affected Landowner Preference + - - + Alts 2&3 - Not acceptable 10. Traffic General + + + - Alt 4 - Direct driveway entrances MI MO MEN MEN 10.1 Mil MI NM ' MEMO To: Gary Warren, City Engineer From: Fred Hoisington, Consultant Subject: Summary of the TH 101 Public Information Meeting ' Held on April 17, 1989 Date: 4-18-89 Gary Warren gave an overview of the study purpose to the 25 ' persons in attendance and introduced Fred Hoisington, Planning Consultant, and Howard Preston, Traffic Engineer. Gary then turned the meeting over to Fred to present the alternative plans. Upon completion p o pletion of the presentation, Mr. Hoisington invited ' questions and comments indicating that part of the Consultant Team's evaluation includes an assessment of neighborhood preferences. The following comments were made during the course of the session. 1. Alternatives 2 and 3 are generally not in keeping with what TH ' 101 is intended to be which is a major roadway connection through the City of-Chanhassen. The comment was directed at the ' rather circuitous alignment of Alternative 2 in particular. 2. "Alternative 4 would be a disaster." The reference here was made to the proximity of the roadway to the present Lake Susan residences. P3. A comment was made that the forecasted traffic volumes on TH 101 (11-15,000 ADT in year 2005) were low. 4. A question was asked regarding the increase in traffic volumes that would result from the interchange at TH 212. The concern ' was that the addition of the interchange would appreciably increase traffic volumes on TH 101. 1 I 1 C I I 5. A question was asked regarding how certain the TH 212 I intersection was and whether it was in fact part of MnDOT's plans. I explained that nothing is certain but that indications from the Metropolitan Council are that a TH 212 interchange at TH 101 will I be approved. 6. Jim Curry expressed a preference for Alternative 1. I 7. Another comment was made that it would be nice to have the I roadway further to the east than Alternative 1 but that the person commenting would have concerns about moving those traffic volumes closer to the residences on Tigua Lane. The I inference was that Alternative 1 is a reasonably good compromise since the comment came from a Lake Susan resident. 8. Another comment was made that either Alternative 1 or 3 would be acceptable to those in attendance at the Public Information ' Meeting. 9. The Consultant was asked to review again the advantages and - I disadvantages of Alternatives 1 and 3 as a means to help the group come to some agreement on an alternative. Both Fred Hoisington and Howard Preston explained respective land use and III traffic advantages and disadvantages of these two alternatives. Several other questions were asked regarding the proposed extention I of Tigua Lane to the future TH 101 as per Alternatives 2 and 3. One person also asked if they might be able to divide their property to I create an additional lot. After considerbly more discussion, and there being no further I comments or statements of preference, Mr. Hoisington summarized the meeting by indicating that it appeared that the results of the Public Information Meeting would suggest neighbor support for , I either Alternative 1 or 3 and that the extreme Alternatives 2 and 4 would not be acceptable to those present. I I 2 1 is I . 4111 /81 c 1 i4 AD i Pizer.,,,.., . 4,,, , T p,,,e44.;: ,.,., 4, mic I - :_ kbb,,4,4, A 0011.14.A P/I0 1)Ze. life •I I '4'2' — LCA--Ce/ct II. -7-:'"--- rt,,.::1;--- - - - 4 yy 19 u/nair,(144 . 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Land Use Consultants 1 MEMO To: Gary Warren, City Engineer From: Fred Hoisington, Consultant Subject: Highway 101 Preliminary Alignment Study DatC. J-3 I-O 1 I met with Jim Curry on Thursday, March 30, 1989 regarding the ' alternative alignments for Trunk Highway 101. I explained the process to him and indicated that we would like him to respond or state a preference for an alternative. 1 Jim indicated that he was supportive of Alternative 1 and was in 1 agreement with the connection directly from the Highway 212 ramps into Lake Susan Drive. He said he would not be able to attend the April 12 Public Information Meeting but wishes to be on record as 1 supporting Alternative 1. 1 1 CITY OF CHANHASSEN I 0 APR n A 3189 1 ENGINEERING DEPT. 1 1 7300 Metro Blvd Suite 525 Edina. MN 55435 (612)835-9960 Planning Commission Meeting June 7, 1989 - Page 23 C RECOMMENDATION OF OFFICIAL MAPPING OF TH 101 RIGHT-OF-WAY, FRED HOISINGTON. I Fred Hoisington: Mr. Chairman, I ' ll be very brief with our presentation. For the most part the Planning Commission has seen the alignments . The I alternative alignments. One of those, Alternative 1 has been selected for consideration for official mapping by the City Council . That was with a great deal of input from the neighbors, the folks who live along the alignment, the owners of the land along the alignment . If you recall we brought this matter to the Planning Commission, the matter of selecting an alternative and while we did not vote formally, it was an unanimous choice for Alternative 1 at that point. What we didn' t know then and what we do know now is that considerably more right-of-way will be required to accommodate a roadway section that we' re talking about here than we had originally expected . It' s primarily because the road goes up and down a II lot and the present road doesn' t. The present road is at least reasonably, it just goes this way and what we' re going to do is we' re going to replace the road that has a very bad horizontal alignment with one that has not bad vertical alignment but simply one that has considerably more up and down than what you see there presently. In order to do that, there has to be a number of cuts and fills along the alignment and rule of thumb is that you don't necessarily have to acquire all of the right-of-way to cover cuts . That whatever is in the cut slopes can be credited to density or whatever and in fact, the adjoining length will be graded down so you would in fact - use that area . So you normally don' t have to have quite as much right-of- , way in cut sections as you do in fill sections. Fill sections, MnDot and the folks who know recommend that you take all the way to the ends of the fill slopes. Now what we 've done in this case was originally tried to put I 150 foot right-of-way on this and we were going to bring that to you in the way of a recommendation and take our chances on the slope easements and so forth later . What we decided to do instead was to come to you with 200 feet of right-of-way for official mapping and then at the time, whenever it I seems appropriate to build the roadway and the design occurs , it ' s possible that some section or some parts of that will be less than 200 feet, which will be a savings for the City or whoever it is that ' s going to acquire. The value for us in official mapping is that there will be development throughout that corridor between now and let ' s say the turn of the century when we might expect the TH 212 to be built and this will be built pretty much in conjunction with that so we' ve got to protect the right-of-way during that interim period. So all we' re recommending to you is that you recommend to the City Council the official mapping of 200 feet of right-of- way with one small bubble and that bubble happens to be just a little ways north of the creek. It goes between the two lakes and that happens to correlate with not only where the future roadway or I should say the existing TH 101 will tie into the new TH 101. There will be some geometric I problems accommodating that but also because the fill is almost at it' s maximum through that 150 feet section so that ' s what we recommend to you. I 'd be happy to answer any questions you might have in that regard . Erhart : Fred , on the lots that would be between TH 101 and the 200 foot right-of-way then, what is the distance there? • Planning Commission Meeting ' June 7, 1989 - Page 24 Fred Hoisington : Tim, the depth is about , I think we were trying to get ' 180 to 200 feet of right-of-way. Erhart : So it would be adequate for a 15,000 square foot lot? IFred Hoisington: Yes, and then on that side we had talked to you before about this concept of kind of an expanded right-of-way. What we ' re able to I do is raise that within that 100 feet on that one side. As you can see from the section we will be able to do some berming and some landscaping to kind of protect those single family lots . IErhart : But this is a four lane? Fred Hoisington: It will be four lane. IErhart: Okay. So another 25 feet really isn ' t going to adversely affect putting 15, 000 square foot lots along TH 101? IFred Hoisington: Those will be substantially 15, 000. Erhart: Just to Dave's point, if I can excuse the subject here a minute, I regarding the 80 foot frontage Dave . If we take a 15,000 square foot lot and divide it by 80 foot frontage, you get a lot that' s 188 feet deep. I think that' s one of the problems with that is you get a real narrow long lklot. Where if it' s 90 feet, it' s only 160 feet deep. I think that ' s sort ., of on the side Fred . Again , as I stated at the last meeting , I think it ' s real exciting from the prospect or for something living to the south the prospect of having this done maybe in my lifetime someday. I ' ve got a Icouple more questions Fred. The 25 foot median is what, concrete or what? Fred Hoisington : It would be a grass median . The possibility still exists I that there could be some sort of shurbery type material in that median but we' re still looking at that. IErhart: Or a rubber tree . Fred Hoisington : Anything you can drive over or bounce off of. I Erhart: Let me ask you this, the City, we do not have the official mapping of TH 212 yet adopted in the City? I Fred Hoisington: No . But we do have the maps here and they' re in the process of being reviewed and so about a month from now I think we' ll come back with those . IErhart : And that puts this whole thing , that takes us through that step? Fred Hoisington: Yes . IErhart : Then after that , if somebody comes in and wants to do development Iliror building , we have the option in 6 months to buy that? I MI -- - Planning Commission Meeting June 7, 1989 - Page 25 Fred Hoisington : The good thing is, if nobody comes in or if the landowner does not come in and request a building permit, of course it can go on indefinitely or never have to worry about it . But yes , if a person comes in and wants a building permit, you can say no. Your building department or your planning department will say no because it ' s officially mapped . It I will have to go through the process whereby the City makes a decision and has 6 months to make that decision to acquire or not. If the decision is not, your Board of Appeals will actually the permit or be charged with that I and they will be compelled to do so . Resident: Can we ask one question so we can go home too? Conrad : Sure, go ahead . Resident: With north of TH 5 approved and everything on TH 101, that choice made. You had a couple choices for north of TH 5 also to choose. Fred Hoisington : That is not part of this request . Resident: This is just mapping for future. Fred Hoisington : Right and only the portion to the south of TH 5. The portion north, there were several different alternatives considered as well and the one that was selected was the one that comes through the apartment building. Takes the apartment building and comes down right at Dakota. other words, leaving the intersection exactly where it is today. Some reconfiguration of Eden Prairie' s . That has been selected by the City Council as the alternative that is to be. . .and fortunately we think we have the dollars also to begin the project except the Governor did veto the spending bill which has our bill in it or our provision in it . We think that's going to stay in September when they go back but yes that' s the one we' re working on. All the rest of them on the north side was addressed . ' Conrad: So those are State dollars. Does the City contribute to that at all? ' Fred Hoisington : No , what it is , on the north side those will be tax increment dollars. They' ll come from the extension of the economic development district by 3 years . What that will do is raise a certain amount of additional money and it will all be spent on TH 101. Conrad : So it' s not State funds? ' Fred Hoisington : Some state dollars will be spent there but most of those will be from that tax increment district. Erhart : What ' s the right-of-way going north on TH 101 up to the Eden Prairie line? Is that 200 feet now? Fred Hoisington : No, no . TH 101, there' s a common roadway between Eden Prairie and Chanhassen is only 66 feet I 'm assuming. It' s very Llimited roadway. Two lanes of course and then it has ditch sections which it' s a dangerous road. 1 IPlanning Commission Meeting June 7, 1989 - Page 26 I IErhart : It would be difficult to upgrade to four lane going north . Fred Hoisington: It' s going to have to be upgraded. It will never be a divided roadway. It will be comitted to probably just to be lucky to get 4 Ilanes. Erhart : You visualize it being 4 lanes? IFred Hoisington: Oh absolutely Tim. That road is going to carry, it' s already carrying more really than it can accommodate and it will be carrying 15,000 to 20, 000 in the year 2005. IErhart : When would you expect something would be done to make that four lane going north? IFred Hoisington: Well there' s going to be for some period of time a question about that stretch that the City is trying to build right down to ITH 5 and up to , is it TH 7 or TH 12. I guess it' s TH 12 where all of TH 101 north of TH 12 has been turned back into Hennepin County and all of that stretch between TH 12 and just north of TH 5 is very much up in the air. It' s a temporary state trunk highway and nobody is coming forward to I try and do anything about improving it there. It takes a special approval of the Commissioner . . . Very difficult problem. ILErhart : Yes, the tone of your voice it sense me there ' s something eminent. ., Fred Hoisington: Not on that stretch. The eminent projects are, assuming funding stays intact , the north leg will be built, I'm guessing 1991. IConrad: The north leg of? I Fred Hoisington : This portion of course is under construction now north of Lake Drive and then this section down to a temporary connection here will have to be going in 1991 as well because once we commit to move TH 101 onto I the new alignment and take it off of 78th and Great Plains , we ' re committed also to make a connection here at Market to existing TH 101. So what you see here is the ultimate and what will happen inbetween is an interim connection . TH 101 will just tie Market Blvd . into it . IErhart : Let' s say Al Klingelhutz comes in here with a development which you' re probably going to see. Are we going to respond to that by making I this change then instead of when they build the freeway? Is that a possibility to find the funds to do that? I Fred Hoisington : No . What Al will have to do is to set the right-of-way aside and plant around it. Incorporate all of his access so that it works with the new future roadway. One of the good things is , because of the availability of utilities and everything , they will be able to develop all I of the properties along it and that ' s why it ' s so critical that we do the official map. For the most part, all of them will set the right-of-way aside . I don ' t think you ' ll have any difficulty with that. The only Fquestion that will arise will be seeing when are you going to buy it from us and if they press the issue , you will be forced to have to do that. I Planning Commission Meeting • June 7, 1989 - Page 27 Maybe sooner than � Y you want to do it. Erhart : Well there ' s another issue . The other issue is trying to plan around the future abandonment of that TH 101 section down here. Batzli : That' s going to have to almost delay development in some cases to the west of the road there because you' re going to have to stay out of the right-of-way but you can' t stay in the current right-of-way. Fred Hoisington: Everything in the vicinity of the interchange itself, the people who own that land realize that they will not be able to do anything and the way it was planned that we showed you as sort of an illustration there until it changes as well , there' s no reason to have it until the interchange is built. Otherwise it' s single family residential and they don' t want to do that. Erhart : Just eliminate the jog that' s all . That' s about three-quarters of a mile? Conrad : So this southerly portion, we' re increasing the right-of-way Fred and basically there' s a cost implication but that is , the funding source for this for purchase is from State funding? Fred Hoisington: No. The only things that are certain right now Ladd are we know that when the north leg is built and we assume the funding is in place for that so we know, and of course this stretch of Market coming up to TH 5 is already in the process of construction very soon and will be partially assessed. The right-of-way was dedicated in that case and it will be partially covered by I forget . . .but whatever the non-local share or I non-local road share. . . the City is picking up the tax increment here. This stretch down here, then the temporary connection we' re acquiring that land now through condemnation the same way we ' re. . . to the north to make that we can make that temporary connection. So that will probably be taken care of and paid for now. Everything however beyond that temporary connection in through here , we have no funding source right now at all for that . But what I 've learned over the years is when you have to have something , somehow or another it works out and you will end up getting it when the time comes and hopefully it will be delayed as long as you can delay it and you won' t be against the wall to have to acquire it sooner than you want it. Jeanette Lappen : . . .north of TH 5 will not be started until 1991? Fred Hoisington: The construction of that section north of TH 5, it ' s possible it can start before that but at least the way we' re looking at it right now, it probably will start in the summer of 1991. Jeanette Lappen : And it will be 2 lane or 4 lane? Fred Hoisington: Just to the north it will be, immediately north it will be kind of a transitional . It will be 4 lanes at the intersection and then it will taper back to 2 lane. ' IPlanning Commission Meeting ' June 7 , 1989 - Page 28 Jeanette Lappen : And has there been any consideration for pedestrian Isafety along TH 101 at all? Fred Hoisington : Along the north side there? IJeanette Lappen: North and south. 1 Fred Hoisington : Part of the consideration in the course of all of this was what those pedestrian connections should be. I can' t even remember now what we discussed in the way of alternatives up along TH 5. The things we' re doing here are really not related to that. There we kind of have a Ifunding source and we can get the right-of-way. . . (Fred Hoisington and Jeanette Lappen had a discussion regarding speed limit Ion TH 101 at this point that wasn ' t completely picked up on the tape .) Conrad: Jo Ann, do you recall what our trail system that we thought we I were going to implement , is there a trail that goes down TH 101 in the plans? Olsen : Yes . Conrad : - On the western side so it 'd be on the South Lotus Lake side? Would there be a trail crossing there? IL ,-- Olsen : I believe so . Conrad : Well it' s a sidewalk. Trail is a real strange word for that part Iof town. Emmings : It ' d have to be on the west because on the east it ' s Eden IPrairie. Conrad : That ' s a good place, we can have them fund it . Is there a trail proposed down the west side? Olsen : You mean on the south side of South Lotus Lake? I believe there is. 1 Conrad : That ' s really more the issue in the plans than this particular highway configuration. There is a need for pedestrian service there. Just I absolute . In fact the whole TH 101 is just a real disaster in terms of pedestrian right-of-way. II Jeanette Lapin : I guess we ' re looking for guidance. Especially for the speed limit. I think something is needed . Conrad : That ' s really, and Mr . Hoisington was saying that ' s a tough call . 1 I don' t know if he gave you any direction on that but he might have given you, I think what he ' s saying is boy, good luck . It ' s really a tough one to get changed . II- I Planning Commission Meeting June 7, 1989 - Page 29 Jeanette Lappen : What about TH 101 within our downtown Chanhassen? You have no control whether it' s 55 mph or 30? Olsen : . . . they don' t have any control . Batzli : One question, well this first one isn't a real question . RALF funds. What is a RALF fund? Fred Hoisington : Maybe you' ve heard , the other term it goes by or used to go by is the Schriver Bill funding which is set aside by essentially the Metro Council sets it aside and that money can be used for either emergency acquisitions or hardship acquisitions. Hardships are strictly residential . In other words, if you have a person who has to get out of their house for some reason or another and they can't sell because of being in the right-of-way, then those funds can be used for that purpose. If there is I eminent development also within that right-of-way, somebody comes along and wants to develop something , they can also be used for that purpose . What it is is it' s an interest free loan provided by the Metro Council to the City who buys the land , holds it and then when it comes time for MnDot to purchase it, they get their money back and the money goes back into revolving RALF fund pot. Batzli : Okay, so you' re saying since we' re not sure that this is going to be a State trunk highway, we' re not sure the RALF funds would be available? Fred Hoisington : That' s correct . I Batzli : Because it would only be for a State roadway that it would be eligible? Fred Hoisington : Because it' s , and I shouldn ' t use the temporary in the sense that I did there Brian because it has since 1940 been a temporary State trunk highway. Batzli : I thought all trunk highways were temporary. Fred Hoisington: No. This one is and it' s a very unusual thing and I don ' t even know why it was but probably because it' s so terrible that nobody wanted to take responsibility enough to maintain it. But I don' t think it' s because it will be turned back or turned over to the City or the County. The County might be the ultimate recipient of this roadway. We don' t know who ' s going to be the owner of it and we don' t know for sure that RALF funds will be available. I guess all we' re saying i.s, it is a funding source . It may apply but it may not because of the temporary nature of the roadway. Batzli : The other question I had was , since we haven ' t done the official mapping, I don' t think we have, of TH 212 yet , is this right-of-way that we' re doing here going to be impacted at all by the final result of that I mapping? Fred Hoisington : It could be just slightly impacted . We understand this bridge in the alignment that was established with this alignment , puts a I IPlanning Commission Meeting June 7, 1989 - Page 30 I little bit of a curve, just a slight curve in the bridge itself. MnDot Idoesn ' t like curves on bridges so what they' re trying to do is they' re presently trying to straighten this out . It will have a slight impact through here but by the time we' re ready to describe this in a meets and I bounds description, that will be resolved . So what you' re looking at is something that' s very close to what' s going to be right in it and it could shift let' s say 5 feet, something like that but it' s going to be a minor Ichange. Conrad : Anything else? What do we need? Is this for our note Jo Ann? IOlsen: You need a recommendation. Conrad : We do need a recommendation? IOlsen: A recommendation of the official map. I Conrad : Is there a motion regarding the presentation on the mapping of TH 101? Batzli : I move that the Planning Commission recommend approval of the I official map as proposed in our packet for right-of-way to be described and recorded at the County Courthouse as officially protected TH 101 corridor . IHeadla: Second . Emmings : I just want to be clear . Maybe I missed something here but is what we have in our packet, this is not the official map? IFred Hoisington : That Steve is not the official map. That map will become the official map as soon as the Council approves it. The legal Idescriptions and everything will be prepared for it. Emmings : But right now you ' re not asking for approval of the official map. IYou' re asking for authority to go ahead and prepare the official map? Fred Hoisington: We' re asking for the approval of the official mapping of I something very close to what is on that map. The 200 foot right-of-way, the 250 foot bubble and that alignment is very close. Batzli : Let me amend my motion to say that we ' re recommending approval of I an official mapping in conformance with what we' ve perceived here. The concept received here . Emmings : Okay, I think that clears it up for me. Batzli moved, Headla seconded that the Planning Commission recommend I approval of an official map in conformance with the concept presented by Fred Hoisington for the right-of-way to be described and recorded at the County Courthouse as the officially protected TH 101 corridor . All voted in favor and the motion carried . Ell Planning Commission Meeting June 7, 1989 - Page 31 iOlsen : We' re close to coming to finalization of, this is where Kenny' s is and Colonial Center. We just wanted to bring it in front of you to let the Planning Commission look at what the site might be like and to provide your comments now. It will be going out for bids when? Fred Hoisington : It will be going out for bids on the 20th . Olsen: So we just wanted to let you get your shot at it now. Conrad : Bids for what? Fred Hoisington : You have to understand , this one is a bit different in that the City is involved. I guess I shouldn' t say the City, the HRA is involved in this case with the design and development of a new facade for Colonial Center. The way that' s all going to be done is that the land for I the parking lot will essentially be a compensation. We' re going to swap a parking lot in front for the facade improvements and then we ' re going to improve the parking lot and improve the front of the building so the City or the HRA has a very big involvement in it. What they've done is asked Jack to design the facade treatment for Colonial Center . He' s been working with the owners of the building and I hope you' re real close now to having some agreement . This is the facade that they would like to have. ' Conrad: So the City gets the parking lot? r Fred Hoisington : The City gets the parking lot . ' Conrad: Why are we looking for the parking lot? Fred Hoisington : Because all of the parking on the north side , the Colonial Center parking and the Cenex which will be gone, and all of the parking associated with the Medical Arts building , plus a good share of the I parking at the Riv, all will be city parking lot. Conrad : So this is consistent with what ' s going in? ' Olsen: Yes. We wanted to let you have input. Jack Anderson : I 'm Jack Anderson , project architect with EOS . I ' ll give you a little briefing of the project that we' ll be working on here. This is the Colonial Center. and Kenny' s Market is located here . What we' re trying to do here is a very economical budget, do something that blends in with the city developments that have been done and some of the existing things. Then work it in with codes and so forth in working with the existing building . The existing building , this is showing it in brick, face brick which is a red face brick back here, we' re encapsulating the existing canopy and moving the signage above that . We' re coming off of that with a gabled . . .then it has gabled ends that accentuate certain portions. Those correspond with the present entryways . Conrad: So the gables come out this way? l Jack Anderson : Right. MI Planning Commission Meeting " June 7 , 1989 - Page 32 1(7 Conrad : Is there any covered walkway? Jack Anderson: Yes . This would still be , this is a side view of it. Both I an east and west elevation so this would be covered. The existing canopy. We' re just putting a sloped top on it. IErhart: You' re not putting a roof on the building? Jack Anderson : No . A roof on top of the canopy essentially is what we ' re doing. IErhart : Yes . The building is still going to be a flat roof when essentially all of the other new buildings in downtown are going to have a I steep roof. What you' re trying to do is somehow from an appearance standpoint in one direction make it tie in? I Jack Anderson : Yes . This is quite a large building itself and this is a way to give it a store front that blends in with some of the new developments . We ' ve got , as far as materials, we ' re reusing and cleaning up the brick. We' re veneering the columns and putting a new brick face on I them. The fronts would be wood . This would be a wood lattice material here. Wood siding and wood trimwork. We have signage insets located as we show there . Then the asphalt shingles . Then the underside of the canopy Iwould be wood also with the recessed light. Down on the sidewalk we removed the existing corresponding with development of the lot out here and then put in a new sidewalk with. . . I Erhart : What' s the roofing material of the medical arts building? Is it cedar? IOlsen : No , it was asphalt shingles I believe. Heavy duty ones . Erhart: That ' s the building that ' s going up right next to this . Whereas Ithe Dinner Theater is all cedar . Jack Anderson : Well this would be a timberline type asphalt shingle which would be a gray color very similar to the cedar . The Timberline shingle is Ilike, it' s a better quality shingles and it does have that look but has the durability of course. As far as cost, it' s about the same cost. IErhart : More durable than what? Jack Anderson: Then the cedar. Less maintenance . IErhart : Cedar is supposed to be the most durable roof that there is . Batzli : What' s going to be right across the street? IErhart : Where Pauly' s and them used to be? Olsen: I don' t know that they' re going to be torn down. There ' s not any immediate plans to tear those down . I • im Planning Commission Meeting ' June 7 , 1989 - Page 33 1 Batzli : Are they going to do anything with those right now? Olsen: What the immediate plans for those are, I 'm not sure . Batzli : We looked at concepts last year . I was wondering if that' s going II to blend in at all with what's going on here or if this is going to be, vice versa , if this is going to be blended in. Erhart: Which building are you referring to? i Batzli : Pauly' s. That group of buildings right to the west of the square . Erhart: Have we looked at anything on those? 11 Olsen : Just some facades . Batzli : Facades and things . Erhart : Oh yes , that' s right . ' Jack Anderson : We are going to take as an alternate and see if we can get it in on the budget and that is to redo all the windows and doors . ' Headla : When I look at that and I think about it as you go west , the north side, it' s early American. On the south side it' s western. I 'm not sure r ILthey' re all that compatible. IL Fred Hoisington : Well David , when the original plan , the architectural plans were drawn by Arvid Ellness for CHADDA, what they were proposing was sort of like exactly that . A western theme on the south side because of the Dinner Theater such a major force there, takes up so much of the south side. On the north side it was proposed to be very contemporary. Very much different on the south side. Headla : That was the plan huh? Fred Hoisington : Yes , almost contrasting totally with one another . Unfortunately, we don ' t think we' re going to get enough of that original concept on the north side. We' d like to see a contrast , we 'd like to see some life on that lower side and we' re still struggling for that. However , things that are proposed here are a substantial improvement over what ' s there and by the time we get signage and so forth on there that' s appropriate to this building , it' s going to look a lot like Retail West . Not like it but at least consistent with Retail West or the Town Square shopping center building which is going to be so much better it ' s unbeli.eveable. Erhart : What ' s it going to look like from the east end? Jack Anderson: We have proposed a paint, exposed concrete block that' s there blending color . Iplanning Commission Meeting June 7, 1989 - Page 34 I t- - Erhart : It' s too bad we don' t have the money to put a roof over the building. Headla : Do you think that ' s what will happen in time Tim? IErhart: That' s the only way you could really tie the building in would be to put a roof on it. Fred Hoisington : It would sure be nice if we could but the number of dollars we' re talking about here and the additional rents the owner I actually has to get to support this improvement plus . . . , we think they' re willing to accept that or very close to an agreement. Probably Monday or Tuesday. Probably will not do a roof here for a long time. It' s not in the cards. IConrad : A number of shopping centers have, the Retail West, is there a canopy out over the walkway Fred? IFred Hoisington : Yes . The Retail West , yes . Conrad: These canopies just go up to the parking lot . IFred Hoisington : They cover the sidewalk. ILConrad: They do cover the sidewalk? Fred Hoisington : Yes , this is covered . IConrad: Anything else? Erhart : What about a partial roof facade just behind that? IJack Anderson: What do you mean? On the existing? IErhart : On the existing roof . Jack Anderson: Well you see you run into real code problems . We were I limited on our height here. We would have liked to have gotten a higher pitch on this but we can only extend by code 3 1/2 feet above the existing roof line or else we' ll have to , we run into snow removal problems. We have to reinforce the entire structure. IErhart: Because it traps snow in there? . I Jack Anderson : Yes . Theoretically the snow will come in the back and could cause snow drifting. So the code addresses that. That would be a substantially more expensive venture. IErhart: You' ve just thought of everything . Conrad : What kind of landscape are we putting in here? Do we have a liFlandscape plan for this area? MI • Planning Commission Meeting June 7, 1989 - Page 35 COlsen : I haven ' t seen one yet. Jack Anderson: Our charge is not that aspect. Fred Hoisington : You have reviewed site plans . When they were brought to you a month ago, most of the discussion, I wasn' t here but I guess most of the discussion centered on the walkway and the rear portion of the site plan. They were showing the landscaping plans and everything at that time. I Olsen : That was for the north parking lot . Earnings: That was only the medical building. Fred Hoisington: The landscaping and the walkways and the lighting and everything is part of this public improvement project which includes everything from this site down through the Ri.veria building . They really should review what was . . . I thought they had already done that. Conrad : Without landscape here, you know you ' re dealing with a limited ' budget so it' s hard to really critique this. It' s clean and fine and we' re not, I don ' t know how we can give you any other comments . I really am interested in landscaping for this area however because that can soften it up and it can tie it together with other parts of the downtown and I think we need to see that. Olsen : I ' ll get copies of those and bring them in for you to review. We just wanted you, so if you ever saw this improvement you 'd know. . . Erhart : What about wrapping the canopy around the ends? Have you considered that? Jack Anderson : One side here is not even owned by this property. The west I side. In fact we have to get a variance even for this little bit of work. The property line is right on the building line . Erhart: Who owns the parking lot then? Who owns west of that then? ' Jack Anderson: It ' s in the process of being purchased . Erhart: By the City? Jack Anderson : The City' s trying to purchase it . 1 Erhart: It might do the job of covering the building if you could go around the canopy and go around the east and west side I guess . What is it, 3 feet? 3, 4 , 5 feet from. . . Jack Anderson : We' re extending out about 10 feet there. Erhart: My concern is that it will come out obvious that someone tried to cover up the building and obviously that ' s your profession to try to avoid that with a limited budget.