1b. Wetland Permit Chanhasse Lakes Business Park, Lake Susan Hills Wet , 3rd Addition I TY 0 F DATE: July 19 , 19 8
C1111311ASSEN C.C. DATE: Aug. 14 , 1989
\�I Y CASE N0: 89-4 WAP
Prepared by: Olsen/v
•
STAFF REPORT
PROPOSAL: Wetland Alteration Permit for a Holding Pond
Within a Class B Wetland
F
LOCATION: West Side Of Powers Boulevard Approximately
Mile South of Hwy. 5
U
J APPLICANT: Argus Development Don Patton
18133 Cedar Avenue Realty Center
CI.
Farmington, MN 55024 7600 Parklawn Avenue
Q Edina, MN 55435
PRESENT ZONING: PUD-R
ACREAGE: 35 . 79 Gross 22. 5 Net
DENSITY: 1. 5 u/a-gross 2 . 4 u/a-net
ADJACENT ZONING Action by City Aern:rit
AND LAND USE: N- IOP; vacant 44)(>;""'
S- PUD-R; vacant
E.7; E- PUD-R; single family
Q W- A-2; vacant __._.._.._
LLW WATER AND SEWER: Available to the site. '~-
I
PHYSICAL CHARAC. : The site contains a Class B wetland in
the northwest corner.
2000 LAND USE PLAN: Residential Low Density
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Lake Susan Hills 3rd Addition WAP
July 19 , 1989
Page 2
APPLICABLE REGULATIONS
Section 20-421 requires a =wetland alteration permit for the
creation of a pond within a Class A wetland and for any digging,
dredging or filling in a Class A wetland.
Section 20-438 dredging will be allowed only when it will not
have a net adverse effect on the ecological or hydrological
charactertics of the wetlands . Dredging when allowed shall be
limited as follows :
1. It shall be located as to minimize the impact on vegetation.
2 . It shall not adversely change water flow.
3 . The size of the dredged area shall be limited to the minimum
required for the proposed action.
4 . Disposal of the dredged material is prohibited within the
wetland district unless specifically authorized in the
wetland alteration permit.
5 . Disposal of any dredged material shall include proper erosion
control and nutrient retention measures .
6 . Dredging in any wetland areas is prohibited during waterfowl
breeding season or fish spawning season, unless it is deter-
mined by the city that the wetland is not used for waterfowl
breeding or fish spawning.
ANALYSIS
The applicant is requesting a wetland alteration permit to
construct a ponding area within a Class B wetland. The Class B
wetland is located on the northerly edge of Lake Susan Hills
West 3rd Addition. As part of the PUD concept plan, the subject
wetland was determined to be a lower quality Class B wetland and
that it could be altered to be used for storm water retention
(Attachment #1) . The design of the ponding area had to meet the
six recommendations from the Fish and Wildlife Service and also
be designed to meet the engineering requirements for storm water
capacity.
The proposed alteration is filling in the most southwesterly
corner of the existing wetland and is enlarging the wetland on
the southeast and west (Attachment #2) . The overall area of the
wetland will be slightly enlarged and will be designed to have
open water in it. The new 930 contour will become the edge of
the wetland from where the 75 ft. setback will be taken. Staff
is recommending that a drainage easement be provided over the
ponding area up to and including the 930 contour which will be
shown on each site survey so that it will be clear where the 75
foot setback will be taken from. In addition, as part of preli-
minary plat approval , the City Council required that a deed
restriction be recorded against each lot abutting the wetland
Lake Susan Hills 3rd Addition WAP
July 19 , 1989
Page 3
which defines the location of the wetland, states that it is pro-
tected and that there is a 75 ft. setback for all structures .
The design of the proposed ponding area meets the requirements of
the engineering department for storm water capacity. Storm water
is being directed from the west, south and east and will provide
enough run-off for the pond to have open water. The bottom of
the pond will be altered somewhat so that there will be pockets
of open water and the applicant will provide an amended
landscaping plan which will provide vegetation around the wetland
to minimize disturbances of wildlife using the wetland. Once -
those amended plans have been provided the proposed alteration
will meet the six recommended conditions from the Fish and
Wildlife Service.
RECOMMENDATION
Staff is recommending that the Planning Commission adopt the
following motion:
The Planning Commission recommends approval of Wetland
Alteration Permit No. 89-3 as shown on the site plan dated
July 10 , 1989 with the following conditions : Ilk
1 . The applicant shall submit revised plans providing for
an uneven, rolling bottom contour for variable water
depth of at least one foot and showing that the basin
will have a fringe of shrubs on the upland surrounding
the basin to minimize disturbances of wildlife using the
wetland. 1
2 . That the new edges of the wetland at the 930 contour will
be protected by a drainage and utility easement which
will be shown on every lot survey and that the applicant
understands that a 75 foot setback exist from the
930 contour for decks and accessory structures .
3 . A deed restriction will be recorded against each lot
abutting the wetland stating that the lot contains a pro-
tected wetland with a 75 foot setback for any structures. I
4. The applicant shall obtain and comply with all conditions
of the Watershed District permit.
PLANNING COMMISSION ACTION
The Planning Commission recommended approval of the wetland
alteration permit as recommended by staff. The Commission
changed Condition #2 and #3 : ^'
2 . That the new edges of the wetland at the 927 contour will be '
protected by a drainage and utility easement which will be
1
' Lake Susan Hills 3rd Addition WAP
July 19, 1989
Page 4
shown on every lot survey and that the applicant understands
that a 75 foot setback exists from the 927 countour for decks
and accessory structures.
3. A deed restriction will be recorded against each lot abutting
' the wetland stating that the lot contains a protected wetland
with a 75 foot setback from elevation 927.
' CITY COUNCIL RECOMMENDATION
Staff recommends the City Council adopt the following motion:
' "The City Council approves Wetland Alteration Permit No. 89-3 as
shown on the site plan dated July 10 , 1989 with the following
conditions:
1. The applicant shall submit revised plans providing for an
uneven, rolling bottom contour for variable water depth of at
least one foot and showing that the basin will have a fringe
of shrubs on the upland surrounding the basin to minimize
disturbances of wildlife using the wetland.
' 2 . That the new edges of the wetland at the 927 contour will be
protected by a drainage and utility easement which will be
shown on every lot survey and that the applicant understands
' that a 75 foot setback exists from the 927 countour for decks
and accessory structures .
3. A deed restriction will be recorded against each lot abutting
the wetland stating that the lot contains a protected wetland
with a 75 foot setback from elevation 927.
' 4 . The applicant shall obtain and comply with all conditions of
the Watershed District permit. "
ATTACHMENTS
1. Location of wetlands within PUD.
2 . Alteration to wetland.
3 . Fish and Wildlife recommendations.
4 . Planning Commission minutes dated July 19 , 1989 .
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WETLAND ALTERATION PERMIT
EVALUATION WORKSHEET
To Be Completed By Applicant and Submitted with Application
(Attach additional sheets if necessary)
1 . WETLAND DESCRIPTION:
Size: 7_;.'u
Class: Type:
Location: Lakeside Streamside Upland
Watershed District:
Area of Open Water: kI 1(" t!r
Drainage Flows To:
■
Vegetation Types:
Soil Types :
2 . DESCRIPTION OF PROPOSED ALTERATION: L- H LL -2"2. ; L`7
I
3 . PURPOSE OF PROPOSED ALTERATION: ) Jr- }f-1`:. 1 y r
4 . APPLICABLE WETLAND ORDINANCE SECTION:
■
5 . A. DISCUSS THE IMPACTS ON THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT IF NO
ALTERATION IS MADE:
•r
� r
5 . B. IDENTIFY AND DISCUSS OTHER ALTERNATIVES TO WETLAND
ALTERATION: 7-'-=4:2 (-l1)r 1,)
C. IDENTIFY THE ADVANTAGES AND DISADVANTAGES OF THE PROPOSED
ALTERATION: ?t '"7 4-
J r
6 . USING THE WETLAND ORDINANCE STANDARDS AS A GUIDE, DETERMINE
WHETHER THERE ARE ANY INCONSISTENCIES BETWEEN THE ORDINANCE
AND PROPOSED ALTERATION:
-2-
.r.
..•• •...,...
(- -
CITY OF CHANHASSEN Jv,'
WETLAND EVALUATION WORKSHEET ( i P( OF.CHANHASSEN
LOCATION Llj -)
SUBJECT
c". (21—
•
TYPE OF WETLAND pfit- i cam_ he „,a o.,-'_
.,e, ) •
COMMENTS em v, ( fie a. --wt.
.C/n2 ova off.. A..iY3-1 c• rL-4"-vj r c^ � c/`�'
` "`C of
ZL.
it6
1
General Specifications for Construction of Wetland for Wildlife
' The basin will have:
• freeform (not even-sided) shape to increase shoreline length and
provide isolated areas for feeding and resting birds;
• shallow embankments with slopes of 10:1 - 20:1 for at least 30% of
the shoreline to encourage growth of emergent vegetation as •refuge
' and food for wildlife;
•
• uneven, rolling bottom contour for variable water depth to (a)
provide foraging areas for species of wildlife feeding in shallow
water (0.5 - 3.0 feet) and (b) encourage growth of emergent
vegetation in areas of shallow water and thereby increase
interspersion of open water with emergent vegetation;
' • layer of topsoil (muck from an existing wetland being filled) on
bottom of basin to provide a suitable substrate for aquatic
' vegetation;
• water level control (culverts,riser pipe, etc. ) to minimize
disturbances of wildlife using the wetland;
' • fringe of shrubs on upland surrounding the basin n t.o minimize
disturbances of wildlife
using the wetland.
•
•
1
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CITY O F
CHANHASSEN
• 690 COULTER DRIVE • P.O. BOX 147 • CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
MEMORANDUM
TO: Jo Ann Olsen, Senior Planner
FROM: Dave Hempel, Sr. Engineering Technician ff . _
DATE: July 13, 1989
SUBJ: Wetland Alteration Permit Review
Lake Susan Hills West 3rd Addition
File No. 89-2 Land Use Review
Based on an amended grading and drainage plan dated July 13 , 1989
along with hydraulic calculations supplied by the developer ' s
engineer , Ray Brandt, it appears the wetland ponding area has
been sized to hold surface runoff and provide adequate storage
for a 100-year storm event. The pond has been designed to be a
dry pond; however, I have indicated to Mr. Brandt that the City
is requesting the pond have an uneven rolling bottom contour with
a variable water depth of a least one foot. This will provide
foraging areas for species of wildlife and encourage growth of
emergent vegetation. The wetland will have a water level control
to minimize disturbances on the water level in the wetland. This
is being accomplished by an outlet pipe elevated and sized to
maintain the predeveloped runoff rate for the area.
RECOMMENDED CONDITIONS
1 . The applicant shall resubmit a grading and drainage plan to
reflect the ponds uneven rolling bottom with a water level
depth of at least one foot.
2 . The applicant shall obtain and comply with all conditions of
the Watershed District permit, if necessary.
.r
CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 19, 1989
Chairman Conrad called the meeting to order at 7: 35 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Tim Erhart, Steve Emmings, Annette Ellson, Ladd Conrad,
Jim Wildermuth and David Headla
MEMBERS ABSENT: Brian Batzli
STAFF PRESENT: Jo Ann Olsen, Asst . City Planner and Mark Koegler ,
Planning Consultant
PUBLIC HEARING:
WETLAND ALTERATION PERMIT FOR ALTERATION OF A CLASS B WETLAND ON PROPERTY
ZONED PUD-R AND LOCATED JUST EAST OF AUDUBON ROAD AND SOUTH OF CHANHASSEN
LAKES BUSINESS PARK, LAKE SUSAN HILLS WEST 3RD ADDITION, ARGUS
DEVELOPMENT.
Public Present :
Ray Grant
Don Patton
Jo Ann Olsen presented the staff report . Chairman Conrad called the
public hearing to order .
Emmings moved , Wildermuth seconded to close the public hearing . All voted
in favor and the motion carried. The public hearing was closed .
Headla : Jo Ann , what are the remarks by Elizabeth Rockwell , the comments?
Olsen: Those were comments from when we first reviewed the site when the
concept plan was going through. These comments were just her general
comments over all the wetlands on there.
Headla : Are they still appropriate? I 'm not sure I can read all her
writing but on that second line there under comments , it says by removing
or plugging drain.
Olsen : Right. See there are the 3 basins that are going to be altered .
We've already done 2 with the first and second addition of those wetlands.
They've already gone through 2 other wetland alteration permits so these
comments are kind of all of them. The 3 wetlands that were going to be
able to be altered .
Headla : So it isn ' t quite appropriate to here?
Olsen: Not with this specific wetland .
Headla : The only other thing I had and I don ' t oppose what they' re trying
to do, is that we put it at 927, 930, if you go out there and walk around,
Planning Commission Meeting
July 19, 1989 - Page 2
how do you know where you are? I addressed this last time and I 'm looking
at this and I 'm thinking well , should we ask for like a 6 inch mound or
something put around so it ' s defined where the wetland begins . And I 'm
not sure it' s appropriate and it 's more of a question.
Olsen: The way we do it is, that contour will be reflected by a drainage
g
easement so that will be on all the surveys and that will be recorded on
' the final plat. So whenever any survey comes in for the house at the
start or any decks or additions in the future, we' ll see that easement.
We' ll know that that is the wetland , the edge of the wetland and the 75
foot setback will be taken from that. The people who live out there,
that' s why we also have that additional condition that it will be recorded
against the property to try to make them aware that it is a wetland and it
is protected . Other than having a fence out there or flashing light
' saying this is a wetland, it' s protected, don' t touch, we really keep
trying to add additional ways to make the public aware.
' Headla: That really doesn' t address my point. You can put it on paper.
I 'm asking that we put it on land .
Olsen: Right. I just don ' t know how you would without, I don ' t see that
you really want a structure around a wetland. You want to keep it.
Headla : That ' s why I 'm saying like a 6 inch mound or a drop in 6 inches
I( or something because somebody can go out and mow and mow that not meaning
to be harmful at all . Good intentions but they do it for 5-10 years and
somebody notices it and the you come in and say, well it used to be a
wetland but now it ' s such a low grade B wetland , let them do it . I really
think we should address how do you define it when you' re walking out on
that land .
Conrad : Do you want a monument of some sort? Are monuments used anymore?
Olsen: I don' t know if they are. I think just those little steel , but
' again people don' t always see those .
Conrad: You don' t see them but .
Headla : I think there should be something but I 'm ready to recommend
something.
Conrad : That ' s a good comment .
Headla : Let me just pass it on but I 'd like to leave it for a time and we
may not even solve it tonight but as we go along , maybe an answer will
evolve.
' Conrad : I think recording the wetland on the individual parcels is a step
but the issue is still there Dave. You ' re right. I 'm not for creating
another barrier because that sort of defeats the purpose of whet we' re
trying to do. Yet on the other hand, you know full well that £�5 years from
now that people will be down mucking mucking in the wetland and when it' s
dry, they' ll be mowing it. They' ll be an area that they shouldn' t be.
Y-OO:- _ s�C» +...e - :bs• ^�1� ! - a.i vi =3,i15`!_3FB:A 16i®
Planning Commission Meeting
July 19 , 1989 - Page 3
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Headla : And they aren' t doing it intention to be harmful .
Conrad: Probably not. No4 not intentionally. ,
Ray Grant : I 'm Ray Grant. A suggestion, I think one of the things that
we have to do is establish some taller vegetation around the edge of the
pond . Maybe a suggestion would be that that will probably grow up fairly
quickly, especially if it' s a wet year when there' s water in the pond and
when the City drives by or somebody from the City drives on Audubon Road
and they glance over and they see one of the neighbors has mowed down this I
cattails or whatever , they' re going onto the easement. Maybe they can
just send a letter out and explain to the guy why he really can 't do that.
I think that will , these cattails or whatever type of vegetation you 've
got established around the edge, I think that would sort of define where
the wetland is . We added, this is designed to have water in it at I think
the 923.5 I believe is the normal water elevation so theoretically the end
of the wetland is 923. 5 but in this situation we' re using 927 . That ' s the II
highest the water can get to from a 100 year storm. If the water goes
higher than that , it flows out a way lower in an emergency overflow into
the catch basin and also out beyond the emergency outlet. That might be a II
way, and everyday I go for a walk and where I walk there ' s a pond that' s
similar to this . It 's in Burnsville but it 's got this cattails and
they' re 5-6 feet high all the way around the pond . That ' s just grown up.
I 'd say the pond' s been there 7-8 years , 10 years maybe. I 've discussed
the mounds out in the middle and I envision that that ' s what this is like. '
I think that' s what they have in mind when they talk about the cattails .
That defines the wetland just perfectly. That one has a fluctuation also. II
I think in a heavy storm it' s gone up 3-4 feet and that' s just about what
happened .
Conrad : Thanks for your comments . Anything else?
Wildermuth: Do you represent Argus?
Ray Grant : Yes I do .
Wildermuth : Are you going to be developing the area or going to be
selling lots?
Ray Grant : Argus will build . I think they build all the houses uptown
and they' ll be building the houses also. Joe Miller Homes builds the
house. Argus Development , Joe Miller owns Argus Development and Joe
Miller owns Joe Miller Homes .
Wildermuth : I see . So that will provide some measure I guess of control . II
The pond appears to be a very nice, very attractive addition to the
development there. The one question I have is , what is to the north of
that? Is that vacant land?
sft
Emmings : Is that Dave Stockdale?
Olsen : Well it will be Lake Drive just to the north. Then Dave Stockdale
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July 19, 1989 - Page 4
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' and the IOP district. Vacant IOP.
Wildermuth : How close will the wetland be to Lake Drive?
Olsen: It's not right against it. I don't know exactly how far it' s
going to be. It just comes around to the north .
' Ray Grant: I could point out to you where the wetland is today and that's
this line right there so we' re actually moving the wetland a little bit
away from there. I 'd say maybe 20-30 feet. About 20 feet.
' Wildermuth: Will the wetland be 75 feet from the road?
' Olsen: No it won't.
Ray Grant : Right now we' re moving it further away than what it is right
now.
' Wildermuth : We don' t have any restrictions on that?
' Olsen: Not to streets .
Wildermuth: It seems like that ought to be something that needs to be
addressed.
IF: Conrad : Distance the road is?
Wildermuth : Yes . In the future . Other than that it looks good . I 'd
like to live next to it.
' Conrad : How far is the road away from the wetland Jo Ann?
Olsen: Lake Drive?
' Conrad : Yes .
Olsen : The actual right-of-way has not been established . It would be
similar to what we' re doing on the east side where we have to work with
the land so I can' t tell you exactly. It will be within 75 feet . It ' s
just north of it.
Elison: I like it. I think it will be better than it is now. I also
shared Dave' s concern because I don' t think anyone will be checking those
sorts of things and if other cities use plantings might be a solution,
then maybe we should add that plantings over x length of height or
something as far as surrounding it because that might just be the solution
but I like it.
Emmings : It seems like a very appropriate thing to do to me and the only
thing I would do is say that the deed restriction, condition , that the
language ought to include the fact that it ' s a 75 foot setback from
Ielevation 927. Just so that' s real clear what it' s setback from. Other
• than that, I think it ' s fine.
Planning Commission Meeting
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July 19 , 1989 - Page 5
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Erhart : I don ' t have any problems with this . It seems like a logical I
thing to do and perhaps an improvement over existing .
Conrad : Okay, thanks . The reason we went from 930 Jo Ann to 927 was '
what?
Olsen : The 930, we have the plans that you have in your packet . It looks'
like the top portion of the new pond but actually once we got the
calculations for the high water , that' s where the water will , at the 100
year flood, that' s the highest it will ever be. There' s an outlet and it I
will never get above that so we always use the ordinary high water mark
for that edge and that' s how we lowered it.
Conrad : Of the 3 issues , if there are 3, that have been brought up, are I
documenting where the wetland really is for residents and I don't think we
have a solution for that. Is there a solution? Is that something we need
to look at? '
Olsen: Like I said, each time we add another condition trying to make it
a little bit tighter so it's more fair .
I
Wildermuth : In this case I think we've got some comfort because the
owner developer is also going to be the builder . Rather than selling off
individual lots . ,
Olsen : It never gets passed on it seems .
Emmings : If there' s a deed restriction though, that is something that an II
owner will become aware of when they buy the lot . If they read it or if
they pay attention, if they remember it, it' s a whole bunch of things that'
could get out of the way there but at least there ' s something .
Conrad: Another issue is the setback from the road which is not
necessarily this developer ' s problem. I
Wildermuth: I think it' s something we should look at in the future.
Don Patton : Could I say something? Don Patton . One of the things that I
the, whenever title goes over, you normally do a title search. This is
going to be your registered advance easement . That would show up in the
title which is certainly highlighted to the new buyer as it ' s closed so I il
guess I 'm enough of a conservative but I think we need less Lestricti.ons
and I think that's a certainly an option for the buyer to see where there
is an easement as a matter of record. I
Conrad: I think we, well I don' t disagree with you Don. At least
I personally don ' t like a lot of restrictions yet if you have an asset , I '
could take you through Chanhassen, I ' ll show you where what we' re talking
r about is being abused right now. So on the one hand I don' t i.ke
L restrictions and arbitrary laws and things that can' t be followed up yet
on the other hand , people aren ' t diligent . People aren' t reading all of '
the deed restrictions. They simply don' t do that and I 'm not sure I want
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July 19 , 1989 - Page 6
to throw it on government ' s lap to do it but we' re talking about , is there
an easy way when a knowledgeable group who is developing a property can,
you' re the best source we have to help protect. You' re putting in the
development and this is the time that we can put something in that might
last for a while and I 'm not sure we know what that is so , you ' re project
is in front of us . We' re talking kind of in general .
Emmings : Ladd if I could interrupt just on his comment . An owner will
find out that there' s an easement there and that there' s a wetland out
there and it goes to 927 but that isn ' t going to mean anything to a
landowner. He's not going to know where 927 is on his lot and that' s what
we' re talking about. Unless he gets it surveyed and gets a stake in the
ground and that's what I think Dave is saying is that there ought to be
some visual cue for that landowner or anybody else just where that 927
contour is and that's what we' re really talking about.
Conrad : I don' t have any other comments . Jo Ann , in the staff report ,
the applicable regulations, you referenced Class A wetlands. We ' re
talking about a B here .
Olsen: Class B wetlands , right.
Conrad : So that ' s simply. . .
Olsen : Yes , we brought that out from another regulation that just got in
there. It's a B.
Conrad : Any other discussion? Is there a motion?
Emmings: I ' ll make a motion to recommend approval of Wetland Alteration
Permit #89-3 as shown on the site plan dated July 10, 1989 with the 4
conditions of staff and altering condition number 2. Changing 930 to 927.
Condition 3, changing the last line so that it reads , 75 foot setback and
then inserting, from elevation 927. Just those two changes.
Wildermuth: I ' ll second it.
Emmings moved , Wi.ldermuth seconded that the Planning Commission recommend
approval of Wetland Alteration Permit #89-3 as shown on the site plan
dated July 10, 1989 with the following conditions :
1. The applicant shall submit revised plans providing for an uneven,
rolling bottom contour for variable water depth of at least one foot
and showing that the basin will have a fringe of shrubs on the upland
surrounding the basin to minimize disturbances of wildlife using the
wetland.
2. That the new edges of the wetland at the 927 contour will be protected
by a drainage and utility easement which will be shown onAevery lot
survey and that the applicant understands that a 75 foot setback
exists from the 927 contour for decks and accessory structures .
Planning Commission Meeting
July 19 , 1989 - Page 7
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3. A deed restriction will be recorded against each lot abutting the
wetland stating that the lot contains a protected wetland with a 75
foot setback from elevation 927 .
4. The applicant shall obtain and comply with all conditions of the
Watershed District permit .
All voted in favor and the motion carried.
PUBLIC HEARING:
ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT MODIFYING ZONING RESTRICTIONS AND LOCATIONS FOR
CONVENIENCE STORES, GAS STATIONS AND AUTOMOTIVE SERVICE STATIONS.
Mark Koegler presented the staff report. Chairman Conrad called the
public hearing to order.
Ellson moved , Wildermuth seconded to close the public hearing . All voted
in favor and the motion carried. The public hearing was closed .
Conrad : Tim, we' ll start at your end. Anything?
Erhart: No. Not on this one. We discussed this thoroughly the last
time.
Emmings : The only thing I thought about when I read this and it may be
real simple. If you have a place selling gasoline, and they have more
than 400 feet, square feet of foor area for retailing non-automotive
goods, what is it?
Koegler : Can you repeat that?
Emmings : If you have a place that ' s selling gasoline or motor fuels but II it happens to have 405 feet of floor area for retailing of non-automotive
goods, what is it? Does that help?
Conrad: It can' t be.
Ellson: That ' s your definition of convenience store.
Wildermuth: Convenience store with gas pumps .
Koegler : You' re saying it would kick it above the threshhold of the motor I
fuel service station in terms of the retail square footage. That would
kick it into the convenience store.
Emmings : Now it' s a convenience store? I
1_ Ellson: Right.
Koegler : Convenience store picks up where that one leaves off with over