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1a. Preliminary Plat Park One 3rd Addition into 1 Lot il C I T Y 0 F P.C. DATE: June 21, 1989 � � C.C. :: 89:;':U ° ' 1989 1 CHANHa� SE B 1 Prepared by: Olsen/v il STAFF REPORT 1 1 PROPOSAL: Replat of Lots 1 and 2, Block 1, Park One 3rd Addition Into One IOP Lot - Lot 1, Block 1, Quattro Addition 1 :i-±irn by City iii-ptni>t-, r 1 Modihtl LOCATION: Lots 1 and 2 , Park One 3rd Addition ecter 1 1.L.. APPLICANT: Daryl Fortier DIie 9i,t,^h,,ea w ..tsdxA Fortier Associates ! c lO_s 1 408 Turnpike Road Golden Valley, MN 55416 i I PRESENT ZONING: IOP, Industrial `Office Park IACREAGE: 2 .15 acres DENSITY: I ADJACENT ZONING AND LAND USE: N- IOP, WayTek 1 S- IOP; The Press I LIIIC 4.-■ E- IOP; Versatil LI W- IOP ; Lyman Lumber IW WATER AND SEWER: Available to the site. IPHYSICAL CHARAC. : The site contains vegetation along the north and west side of the property. 1 2000 LAND USE PLAN: Industrial 1 I �: J, ___ lir-"r~ •; )111 i(`,,• ,\ \.�... 7200 1 e\ L A X !' ,\ aralli -r-, al Mi e r --730C I um. ti Ufa �� ..'1._--7- ' ■ g,..,r f,.6. R 0 .,2 7 v.� ► ' \ �,'. 7400 / ` CO I I ' .111-1," ' - 9 i - 4r‘j.-- • co 6Jnuie — Q �- al - , �• `N. LD (��J Z'.1! 7600 .. --:>� j. cr) g . c::, • Mt rj a., , .- - .. ELnoo I 2 Q; D ,� f-----780 0 I - ` / '' W ION 0` 5 I si. . -,ICE rRl I C N0 F - � �� U j � 7900 „ __ '--20- ..‘ . AKE / 8000 ' ' I is . . d • .,ah.. V ` 2) p •�.'. o `+ � � 6a4� ` —8100 ,r, at,- • ��'s , 1O��„ !r• • i OAKO • LAN 4 CI..Ct.E j -8300 I \. WR/C ,'.�l� :RSr,+ L AX�� I-N I r-_ `YA( \ 500 1 `l1 �' ��4 0 ■ Quattro Addition June 21, 1989 Page 2 ' BACKGROUND The Planning Commission and City Council reviewed and approved the proposed site plan for a second garage on the site (Attachment #1) . One of the conditions of approval was that the property would be replatted to combine the two lots into one single industrial office park lot. ANALYSIS The applicant has submitted a preliminary plat which combines the two lots into one lot, Lot 1, Block 1 , Quattro Addition. The ' final plat must provide the front, rear and side easements as required by the Engineering Department. ' RECOMMENDATION Planning staff recommends the Planning Commission adopt the following motion: "The Planning Commission recommends approval of Subdivision #89-2 to replat Lots 1 and 2 , Block 1, Park One 3rd Addition into Lot ' 1 , Block 1, Quattro Addition as shown on the preliminary plat dated " with the condition that the final plat provide the typi- cal front, side and rear easements. " PLANNING COMMISSION ACTION The Planning Commission- recommended approval with staff ' s recom- mended condition. CITY COUNCIL RECOMMENDATION ' Staff recommends the City Council adopt the following motion: "The City Council approves preliminary plat for Subdivision #89-2 to replat Lots 1 and 2 , Block 1, Park One 3rd Addition into Lot 1 , Block 1 , Quattro Addition as shown on the preliminary plat dated " with the condition that the final plat provide the typi- cal front, side and rear easements . " ATTACHMENTS 1. Planning Commission minutes dated May 17 , 1989 . 2 . Planning Commission minutes dated June 21, 1989 . 3 . Preliminary plat dated "May 25 , 1989" . I I LAND DEVELOPMENT APPLICATION 11 CITY OF CHANHASSEN 690 Coulter Drive Chanhassen, MN 55317 (612) 937-1900 APPLICANT: FORTIER & ASSOC. OWNER: FRANK BEDDOR, JR. ADDRESS 408 Turnpike Road ADDRESS 7951 Powers Blvd. Golden Valley, Minn. 55416 Chanhassen, Minn. 55317 II Zip Code Zip Code TELEPHONE (Daytime ) 593-1255 TELEPHONE 474-0231 REQUEST: ' Zoning District Change Planned Unit Development Zoning Appeal Sketch Plan 1 Preliminary Plan Zoning Variance Final Plan ' Zoning Text Amendment Subdivision Land Use Plan Amendment XX Platting Metes and Bounds Conditional Use Permit Street/Easement Vacation Site Plan Review Wetlands Permit PROJECT NAME QUATTRO ADDITION (Garage in Park One . ) I PRESENT LAND USE PLAN DESIGNATION Industrial REQUESTED LAND USE PLAN DESIGNATION Industrial PRESENT ZONING I .O.P. — I REQUESTED ZONING I .O.P. USES PROPOSED Garage . future garage or Mini-storage type bldgs . SIZE OF PROPERTY 2 . 2 Acres +- LOCATION Lots One & Two, Block One, Park One 3rd Addition REASONS FOR THIS REQUEST Join 2 lots into 1 lot. LEGAL DESCRIPTION (Attach legal if necessary ) CURRENTLY: LOTS 1 & 2 , BLOCK 1 , PARK ONE 3rd. ADDITION PROPOSED: LOT 1 , BLOCK 1 , QUATTRO ADDITION City of Chanhassen I Land Development Application Page 2 ' FILING INSTRUCTIONS : This application must be completed in full and be typewritten or ' clearly printed and must be accompanied by all information and plans required by applicable City Ordinance provisions . Before filing this application , you should confer with the City Planner to determine the specific ordinance and procedural requirements applicable to your application . ' FILING CERTIFICATION: The undersigned representative of the applicant hereby certifies ' that he is familiar with the procedural requirements of all applicable City Ordinances . ' Signed By Ad / Date 17 , � /,(57 Applicant 1 The undersigned hereby certifies that the applicant has e n authorized to make this application for the property herein described . 1 . ) J Sig ned By � {WGLG _ � / Date 6'/z /�S�J e Fee Owner iDate Application Received - -�'� Application Fee Paid ' City Receipt No. r ' * This Application will be considered by the Planning Commission/ Board of Adjustments and Appeals at their meeting . 111 • Planning Commission Meeting May 17, 1989 - Page 42 II 5. The applicant shall enter into a development contract with the City and I provide the City with the necessary financial sureties to guarantee the proper installation of these public improvements . 6. The applicant shall provide screening between the southerly lots and the Gowen property. All voted in favor and the motion carried. 1 SITE PLAN REVIEW FOR THE ADDITION OF 2, 920 SQUARE FEET ONTO AN EXISTING , PRIVATE GARAGE (BEDDOR) , ON PROPERTY ZONED IOP, INDUSTRIAL OFFICE PARK AND LOCATED ON LOTS 1 AND 2, BLOCK 2, PARK ONE THIRD ADDITION, FORTIER AND ASSOCIATES. Jo Ann Olsen ' presented the staff report. Emmings: Daryl , do you have any comments? ' Daryl Fortier : I 'm Daryl Fortier with Fortier and Associates. We are pretty much in agreement with the staff report. We hope it' s a brief I report for you tonight. The additional landscaping , point 2 on the staff recommendations , we would like to simply see the provisions for caliper inch per caliper inch basis deleted and say that we will work with staff and the DNR forester for appropriate replacement. Our simple concern here II is that if the owner wishes , as he' s expressed , to keep the center of the site free, we are losing 6 trees in this area and we' ve already proposed landscaping around the edges . If it' s caliper inch per caliper inch , we ' would have to be putting in so many trees, we think there's a real crowding problem. We would rather simple say let' s look at the actual trees and meet with staff and the DNR forester rather than make the provision that it II be caliper inch per caliper inch. We' re not objecting to replacing trees . We are proceeding with the replat that Jo Ann suggested. The issue of outside storage, I think she suggested , that ' s actually located right at this location. He has a flatbed trailer which is about 24 inches high or so to haul his vehicles to different shows and different events . Parking and driveway curb and gutter . I 'm sure that ' s fine . . . Previously this portion of the building was built and there was an exemption from curb and II gutter . The curb and gutter for the property is along this portion of the driveway and is all along the south portion of the driveway right up to the building and that channels water to storm sewers in this location. The remainder of the curbing was deleted specifically because the center of this site is used for auto contour shows . Mr . Beddor has two automotive clubs that he operates out of his garage. They do not store their cars there but he does invite them there for display and car shows . Only one that I know of that I ' ve attended so I really can ' t say that this is frequent but I can say that there are a number of cars . I think last time there were about 60 cars that showed up and they are II Y parked on the grass and they go out in an array pattern with a main tent , their hospitality in this location. Curbs would be very difficult to drive over , especially for a bulk of the cars . They simply wouldn ' t do it so the provision of curbs II in this case would be defeating his purpose of having a specific facility for automotive display and car shows . The second reason we want to keep II ,Planning Commission Meeting May 17, 1989 - Page 43 II the center of the site open is that one of the vehicles they' re storing there is now a helicopter. It is a safety problem to land a helicopter on a curb. Of course they have to land on skids . They don ' t necessarily have wheels and after you land you have small wheels that drop down from the I skids. You can think of it as a horse drawn sleigh if you will . The runners are about the same size. The wheels are attached to the runners I and you snap lock them into position. They are about 2 1/2 or 3 inches. You then have to push the helicopter. It is a small 2 You then have to push the helicopter into storage. If person peiscover curb of course you' re subject to damaging g you Youp is over a you jar a fuel line loose or whatever the problem uwould tbe.YoThe asecond en IIthing is that pushing the helicopter back up the curb, once you' re in the garage and you try to push it over a curb, it' s a real tough problem. You simply can' t do it with 3 inch wheels when you have a 6 inch curb. The Irunners would prevent you from pulling the helicopter into position unless we were to make a special asphalt helicopter landing pad . That would be II the only alternative and it would have to be large enough so of course you have some safety margin and that' s the reason we' re requesting no concrete curb and gutter. The final point I 'd like to clarify is the applicant shall submit for approval by the City a drainage and erosion control plan. This is a little more complex. There are actually two II Y proposals before you tonight . One is for drainage improvements in accordance with the previous engineering plans for all of Park One which envisioned that at some time we II would connect from Lyman Lumber ' s overflow with an underground storm sewer pipe to the public system. This could never be built as part of the Park One improvements because it ' s on private property. It' s a private improvement and we cannot spend the funds for it. We' re now intending to I do that . It ' s this reason that we ' ll lose trees . The issue of ponding and so forth has been raised by the engineer but it ' s already been addressed . The 20 acres in the northerly part of Park One has created a very large outlot down here. Part of the Ver-Sa-Til project contains this large duck I pond that we' ve created in the site and maintained trees . Create a natural site. That' s intending to drain all of Park One. It ' s been appropriately sized for settlement and contains . . .so we would not have individual holding I ponds in small lots . The lots were simply too small so we' ve already sized them and did all the engineering . . .public funds partially and partially project funds and it ' s been assessed against the property so we 'd like to I calculated. greater calculations been we are not even approaching tzons and pproaching anything near that for runoff capacity. II Secondly, a grading plan. There is literally no grading involved with the exception of excavating for footings on the garage. The site does not require any grading. It ' s already perfectly flat. Our survey has been II submitted . The reason the engineer doesn ' t see any grading changes is because we' re not changing grades by more than a couple of inches and our surveyer cannot be that accurate. Neither can our contractor so he may have missed the grading plan but it is indeed there . The issue of erosion II control has been addressed and again it may have been overlooked but it is actually being addressed as part of the storm sewer line. We have asked for silt fences and we have asked for 5 cubic yards of rip rap to be placed at this location. This is the very same standards we use in the 1 construction of all the improvements in Park One including the City' s public improvements so we think that ' s adequate and since it ' s the same Planning g Commzsszon Meeting May 17, 1989 - Page 44 • , standard that the engineer has participated in approving as well as the city' s consulting engineers, we feel that should be adequate on the present plans as we' ve requested . With those comments , we have no objections to the staff report. , Conrad : What do you agree with? Daryl Fortier : We certainly agree that , I 'm not sure why, it' s a large ' issue, we are not imposing utilities for this. It is intended to be essentially dry storage for this if you will . There is not intended to be any maintenance but I 'm not sure why we want to put a condition suggesting II that they never do maintenance. If it' s going to be approved as a commercial permanent structure which is what the Council wanted, I 'm not sure why we' re limiting it. He has no intent of doing repairs but I 'm not II sure why we are limiting it. Olsen : Because we got into all those traps . Daryl Fortier: If we put in drainage, then we have to worry about pumps. We put in sanitary sewer connection onto the building as previously requested. We did that immediately during construction. It has flammable II waste traps . It has oil separators . It has a hydraulic lift . It has a parts washer. It has solvent recovery. It meets all the requirements. It has testing facilities and where the fuel tank can be monitored on a weekly basis if necessary. Yearly by the State Inspector. I think we' re in full compliance with absolutely all the concerns previously listed for this structure. One of the concerns is whether or not it drains. If we put in drains . . .all the protection. In this case there are no drains . No proposals to hook up plumbing whatsoever so the ability to do those types of repairs to provide water just doesn ' t exist . I 'm just not sure why we' re making it an issue. We certainly agree with replacing of the trees II for the forester , point 2. We certainly agree to proceed with the plat. We agree no additional outside storage should be permitted . It ' s an industrial use. We would ask for an exemption for point 5. We think the curb and gutter should be deleted for the reasons I mentioned . Not for economics but for other hardship reasons and we would agree that we will discuss or we will consult with staff concerning grading and so forth but we believe we' ve already submitted sufficient information and it perhaps deals with mutliple plans that ' s been overlooked . That ' s all unless you have questions . Emmings : Let' s see if there are any comments here . Jim, have you got any comments? Wildermuth : No . I Batzli : How do you feel about the curb and gutter? Wildermuth: We didn ' t require it the first time, why do we need it the second time? Ellson : Ah ha . There ' s that precedent that you just said about the last guy. You' ll ask him the next time he comes in but as soon as he does , It - , Planning Commission Meeting May 17, 1989 - Page 45 he ' ll say but I didn' t do it the first time . Batzli : I was going to talk about condition 1 a little bit first of all. I guess my question was whether we would allow maintenance or repair of automobiles anywhere on the site or were you only trying to limit it in that new building? j Olsen : The reason that I put that condition in was if they do start the 11 repair and maintenance then we get into the other things that the other garage had to do with the traps . That ' s the only reason I had that I condition in there was so they would not be doing that work in there without having the accommodations for it. II Batzli : Okay, so the garage and the new facility are the same thing? Olsen : Yes . II Batzli : So really what you ' re saying is , you ' re only going to use the new facility as a garage and if you use it for anything else, you've got to talk about it. That' s what you' re trying to say? IIOlsen: That's what I 'm trying to say. Batzli : I think I would go along with landscaping being 'done on a staff I approval basis. I think that the curb and gutter , there' s a certain amount - of logic to it but I think that you can make a little ramp or something . I don' t think it ' s the kind of thing where you eliminate all of the curb and I gutter throughout the entire site because you ' re going to drive some cars on the grass. Finally I think condition 6, if that is the case then I think the condition should remain but add something to the effect that these things only have to be submitted if required after consultation with Ithe City staff . Emmings : Now Annette . What about curb and gutter? IEllson: This doesn ' t have it because originally this was never required right? Not because we gave them an exemption at one point? IOlsen: I don' t remember . I don' t know if we even required it. Wildermuth : Curbing was waived right? IConrad: The first time it was waived . IEllson : That really doesn ' t matter now but . . . Conrad: It really appeared at that time y pp that it served no purpose. IEllson : Then why do we have it as an ordinance? Then maybe it should be looked at on a case by case basis but if we write it in there that everything around here should have it and yet we use it and enforce it on a I case by case basis , then it ' s stupid to have it in there so I 'd just as soon follow what the ordinance says . Like Brian said , like have a cut out I , I Planning Commission Meeting May 17, 1989 - Page 46 I for a driveay to actually help the wheels get down. It might be easier ' than on the wet grass or something like that to have a little concrete ramp or who knows what that ' s connected to a curb. I would be satisfied if Jo Ann said the tree replacement is good enough, then I go along with her saying. If Dave were here though I know he'd want 1 inch for 1 inch, an eye for an eye. Erhart: What happens if it' s a 12 inch tree? Ellson: I know. That' s just it. We' re going to have to decide that. I think there' s some merit to the reason we were going to that is because we really lost something once and never returned so I 'm giving Jo Ann that leeway. But I want the curb and I think number 6 should stand . If they've got it in, then just show it to them that it is here. I 'm done. ' Conrad : I thought this was a simple deal but now that we get into it and Daryl doesn' t like most of the staff report, I think we should table. There are too many technical things that I just don ' t understand . I think II he had a comment. It showed me that the engineer is not looking at what is there and I 'd like the engineer to comment to me about the issues and I 'm not smart enough to figure out whether we should or should not require curb II and gutter here . The engineer said the grading plan yet Daryl says hey, we' re not doing anything . Something ' s askew and it ' s not for me to make up. I think I would recommend tabling it . ' Olsen : The engineer does understand that he wants to still drive up there and stuff. Conrad : He ' s still saying that . But I hear from Daryl , I heard some comments from him that it didn' t sound like there was communication and maybe some different points . Maybe that ' s not the one but others . I don ' t II know. I don' t know whether curb and gutter should be required here. I know we slipped it the first time through. Olsen: Again, we were waiting until the mini-storage and further , development. Conrad : Daryl , just one other comment . The trailers are now being stored II outside. Is that taken care of? The staff comment to us was that existing garage is used for storage/maintenance. Site is conforming to the request and conditions of the site but there are trailers being stored outside which was not anticipated in the beginning . So is this new plan taking care of that? They' re saying we ' re storing one trailer between buildings but what about the trailers that are currently outside now? Daryl Fortier : I 'm only aware of one trailer that' s outside right now. There may be more . If there are more it ' s probably because we pulled them out of storage so he could do something in the garage. There is presently room in here . They do store a trailer inside but he recently purchased , I understand , a larger trailer which sits in here. That' s the only trailer I 'm aware of which is too large for the structure . Conrad: Staff is saying trailers are being stored outside. t P.lanning Commission Meeting May 17, 1989 - Page 47 II Olsen : The day that we visited, there were 2 or 3 on the lot . Daryl Fortier: I think that could be much like saying cars are stored outside. He had brought these out and put them out here. . . Erhart: I visited the site this evening and it' s a very neat site. Regarding , well let ' s take one at a time here. Not having maintenance in a building. What 's this trap you ' re referring to Jo Ann? Olsen: I believe the first time they went through they had to have a special trap for the fuel oil . Wildermuth : For spills. Olsen: There was a lot of discussion on that. ' Erhart : Any building in any industrial , in any garage a guy can pull a car in and maintain it. Wildermuth : But with that original garage I think there' s a floor lift and a wash station and all kinds of areas for working on cars . Erhart : The problem with this condition is that , then we ought to apply ' this condition to everybody. Everybody that' s got an overhead door in the city ought to have this condition applied to it. Emmings : My recollection of this Tim, and I don ' t know if it helps or not , is that what I remember us saying when we considered this is what we ' re creating here is essentially a service station. The same kinds of consideration ought to be given to this building as would be given to a ' service station because that' s essentially what it is . It ' s private rather than. . . II Erhart: But someone doesn ' t come in with their car to have it fixed that he charges them does he? Emmings : No but he ' s got the same equipment and doing the same kinds of things that would be done down at the Standard station. Erhart : I do that at my home too in my garage. IIConrad: Not everyday. Not multi-cars . I Erhart : I don ' t think anybody feels strong about condition 1. To me it also seems pretty much over control . II Batzli : This is a commercial area and you ' re not . This would be a permitted use in this area . Erhart : I could pull a car into my industrial plant too and tear the engine out, there' s no one that says I can ' t do that . • 1 , 11 Planning Commission Meeting May 17, 1989 - Page 48 II Ellson: They wouldn' t like it though. , Olsen : If you ' re going to do it, we just like to know that everything else is taken care of that needs to be done as part of it. , Ellson : He didn ' t seem to have a problem with that one. He had a few he had a problem with, that wasn' t one of them. Erhart : Let ' s move on. I agree with him it seems a little bit over control . The next one on the landscaping. Essentially the line where that ditch is right now, essentially is just grown over and to go in and measure II which trees are caliper per caliper basis could mean that you have to move the, you might have to just literally that whole edge of the lot to replace caliper to caliper so I don't know. I 'd be just satisfied to say additional landcaping shall be provided as required by staff and just use good judgment on it because it's very difficult to use a technical approach to it. The outside storage, in other industrial sites there' s outside storage and then the whole thing has to be screened right and here we' re allowing an exception essentially by allowing one outside. Olsen: It is essentially screened on 3 sides . ' Erhart : Yes , the whole area is pretty wooded . I guess I don ' t have a problem with 4 leaving it the way it is even though technically I supposed it might be not in accordance with our rules . The next thing is the curb and gutter. I think in this case the specific intention of the use of this owner here , in the first place there ' s a lot of asphalt there now for the small lot and none of it' s curbed and gutter so to go in and require curb and gutter on this new section would mean you have about 20% curb and gutter and 80% just like your home driveway which would really look out of place. Now how I can justify in my mind allowing this building owner not require curb and gutter is that he has a specific requirement that he needs his driveway tailored in the manner in which it is . The Level of the asphalt is level with the green grass and I think we ' re not setting a precedent . Somebody else would have to come in with a specific need to have their asphalt driveway the same level as the grass so I guess I don' t have any problem in extending essentially the same rules on that. Batzli : Can I interrupt just for a second Tim? What did we do with, was it Lyman Lumber that had the asphalt strip and then behind it they had a bunch of piles of rock and stuff and they were going to use, I don' t know if they were going to use forklifts or frontend loaders or something . Did I we make them have gutter? I think we did . Wildermuth : The unusual part about this thing is that the applicant is going to use a commercial location in an industrial office park location for a non-commercial use . I don ' t know if you ' ve been in there but a lot of houses that are built look like the inside of this garage. ' Erhart : The exterior is definitely, it ' s definitely an industrial building . Wildermuth : Yes right . B ' Planning Commission Meeting May, 17, 1989 - Page 49 IErhart : It' s a good quality industrial but it is an industrial building so it fits in from that standpoint . Lastly, where is this grading thing in Ithese conditions? Is that in here? Conrad : The last one . Daryl is saying there ' s not much grading to do. I Erhart: Okay, I think we should just leave 6 the way it is and let the applicant and the City hash that one out and I guess I 'd like to pass this on to Council. i think it' s ready to go . IEmmings: I'd like to ask you about the helicopter . I wonder if we knew we had an airport in town and can you basically have a helicopter anywhere you want to? IOlsen : We don ' t have any restrictions against them. We have had complaints about the helicopter. IEmmings: This was proposed and approved as a garage for automobiles . I know I don 't know what ' s going on with the helicopter or if there are any IIsafety issues or noise issues or anything else. Olsen: But we are getting complaints . We ' re working through public safety on how to address it. We don ' t have any definitive answers . The zoning I ordinance doesn' t regulate them and we ' re working with public safety to possibly regulate them. I know that Prince has one on his site too and they just have to meet the FAA. IEmmings: They' d probably pre-empt anything we ' d do . I don ' t know except for something like noise or something . IErhart : I would venture to guess that cities would have ordinances which we ought to look at that would have some kind of space requirement. Some distance requirements from a landing pad to a building and to the next I person's property. I ' ve just got to believe that that would be common in an ordinance regarding helicopters . I Olsen: What we ' re working on now is we ' re telling the resident that when you hear the noise or whatever, try to get somebody out there to test it. Use the noise ordinance and it ' s not going to work. 1 Batzli : Did we have a noise ordinance? Olsen : Yes . IIBatzli : The beefed up one didn ' t pass but we have a noise ordinance? II Olsen: It ' s more of a nuisance ordinance rather than a noise ordinance. So we have no way to deny them. Ellson: Hours of operation maybe . II . • 1 Planning Commission Meeting May 17, 1989 - Page 50 Emmings : I don ' t know if we should table it or pass it on. I guess I 'd be comfortable in passing it on but I think there are things that need to be worked out between now and when the City Council gets it . Things like traps and stuff, it seems to me you only worry about a trap if you've got a II drain and there aren' t any drains so I 'm not that concerned about number 1. Number 2, I agree with everybody else that it should be done by the staff and we don ' t have to worry about a caliper inch by caliper inch . That' s because Dave' s not here and that' s the only reason I have the courage to say that. I don' t see any reason now to impose curb and gutter . If we let it go before looking for some kind of a reason we thought to be valid at the time, I don ' t see any reason to impose it on this small section. I think we should keep in number 6 and you should just discuss your differences with the city engineer prior to going to the City Council . That's all I 've got. Any other discussion on this? If not, is there a motion? Erhart: I ' ll move the Planning Commission recommend approval of Site Plan #89-3 for the construction of a 2, 920 sq. ft. garage facility as shown on 11 the Site Plan dated April 13 , 1989 with the conditions as follows . Number 2, change to additional landscaping shall be provided as required by staff. 3 as stated here . 4 as stated changing the word "the transport flatbed" to II "1 transport flatbed" . Number 5, all parking and driveway areas shall be paved period . And 6 as is. And that ' s it . Batzli : Did you delete number 1? , Erhart : Yes . Olsen : And number 5 I changed just to say all parking and driveway areas shall be paved. Emmings: We could do that one like we did on Stockdales . You could say a unless the City Engineer determines . Erhart : Ours is a recommendation so if the City Engineer came to the ' Council . Emmings : I mean unless the City Engineer determines now or in the future that curb and gutter is necessary. . . Just a suggestion. Conrad : That ' s a good way to do it . Emmings : Alright, we' ve got a motion. Do we have a second? Wildermuth : I ' ll second the motion . , Batzli : I 'd like to see condition 1 in them and I would also at a minimum like to see your proposed . . . ' Ellson : Gutter idea? Batzli. : Gutter idea but the problem I see is that , the only reason I really agreed on the guttering last time is he ' s not in a sewered area It I . Planning Commission Meeting May 17, 1989 - Page 51 I and it didn' t make sense to me. To me gutter is directed to a storm sewer as well as maintaining erosion, or keeping erosion at bay. I think if we do this , we might as well be doing it on everyone that we do from here on out. I Wildermuth : But have you seen the site Brian? The initial portion , 80% of it isn ' t going to be guttered. IBatzli : That might be true but I can ' t help what they did before. Maybe did it before. Maybe I didn' t know any better . y I IEmmings: I think it was your motion. Batzli : Maybe it was but I guess the argument was somewhat appealing. I However , I guess you can do it by other. means . Wildermuth: This is a unique situation. It' s a non-commercial use of a Icommercial area . Erhart : The only problem is if the guy sells the property to somebody who I then wants to use it for a commercial use and it doesn' t have curb and gutter . If you' re starting fresh from the site , that ' s probably a good enough argument to require it and it probably should have been required . IWildermuth : Initially? Erhart : Yes . The fact that the site is already 70% developed . IElison: Then isn ' t that exactly what ' s going to happen when Stockdale expands and we just put that in. We ' ll want him to put that in when he Iexpands and now we ' ll have the same viewpoint. Wildermuth : He has to come back if he expands . I Ellson: I know like they' re coming back with the idea that we curb and gutter as he got bigger which is the idea behind Stockdale and we ' re not doing it now we won ' t do it then. Pretty soon we ' ll have 50-50. Half have Iit, half don' t. Emmings : I don ' t think that ' s a realistic danger at all because when Stockdale' s place gets water and sewer , as part of the IOP, everything I there is going to be torn down and that place is going to be redeveloped and that' s different. IWildermuth : Not a comparison. Emmings : But it ' s funny we get two of these on the same night . It makes Iit so hard that you have to justify so many things . Daryl Fortier : Maybe I can help. . .wi. th curb and gutters . One of the differences first of all on this plan is that ever since Frank first held I out these two pieces of property for personal use , it was because such a use at his other residential lots would have been inappropriate and after • Plannin g C ommission Meeting ' May 17, 1989 - Page 52 I talking with staff we had to put it somewhere. You earlier had a proposal II in here for townhomes and the object is , where do they store their boats and trailers and you said well they' ll rent a space. Where do you do it when you' ve got multiple vehicles? Not in a residential district so we wind up here. . . . that this is indeed the best use , ever since though however, why didn' t he just set aside one lot? He's been following a master plan and that master plan is still being reflected and eventually it will have another driveway connected here. That' s exactly why the storm 11 sewer has been located by the City and by the developer . We are following a pattern. It' s not a haphazard development. It is a master plan and it is proceeding in accordance with the original designs . The curbing has been • stopped here. It has been extended over this side. That is along the perimeter of the property. It will be continued along the perimeter of the property including this portion thus all the perimeter of the property will II be paved , curbed and guttered in accordance with the ordinance even if it were to be transferred to someone else. It would be fully. That will still keep the center portion of the site open . It will contain already water and runoff. It will serve all the purposes of being curbed and guttered . The future owner may or may not paved this or may or may not do something else with it 5 or 10 years down the road but a better idea may well be to support this since this is following a master plan , all perimeters of the property will require curb and gutter to serve a permanent statement or a compromise position and that ' s , whenever he makes any additional cuts in here or adds to this perimeter area , he would indeed have to add curb and gutter . I Emmings : But we ' re not seeing any perimeter work on this plan so I don' t think it would make sense to add it as a condition here. When he adds that II driveway over there , would that come back to us or would it just go to the engineer? Olsen : Are you talking like the mini-storage? Daryl Fortier : Right. He' s already proposed the second driveway in here . Olsen : If he just put the driveway in , no but if they come in with a site plan for mini-storage, then yes we would see that . Emmings : If he put the driveway in , where does the driveway go? Daryl Fortier: The driveway goes right in front of this future building and connects from here to here . Olsen: It would be part of that mini-storage addition. Daryl Fortier : That ' s correct . Olsen: Then you would see it. Wildermuth : What kind of a mini -storage addition is this going to be? Daryl Fortier : Mr . Beddor seems to becoming a collector of things . Some ' of them look like, I noticed that he ' s looked at some Jaguars recently and . Planning Commission Meeting May. 17, 1989 - Page 53 I he may well become a vintage car collector in which case it would be private mini-storage. He also has a few friends who would say they would like to store their vehicle here so he stores all his own vehicles but if I he ever wanted to invite personal friends to also store or other members of the car club, he would undoubtedly put them in these mini-storage. It would again be for vehicles . That' s the best I can predict at this time but you ' re fully informed at least . IEmmings: I 'm glad somebody has a master plan. I Daryl Fortier : That ' s part of what the previous Council and Planning Commission was based on. There is curb and gutter along this area. Also along both sides of the driveway to make sure that any runoff coming from II the site is funneled in this storm sewer. It was not a blanket statement saying no curb and gutter required . Emmings: And the site isn' t being changed. Are there any existing Iproblems with runoff or erosion or anything else? Daryl Fortier: From this area, all the erosion and runoff would go II immediately to this small area where we have erosion control measures and this new holding pond is going to happen because we cannot prevent it. It ' s a low lying area that it will fill up if there' s an , unusual amount of rain and that' s in addition to the previous pond for siltation and erosion I control . So it' s well covered that any possible injury by not having curb and gutter is just a miniscule possibility. Aside from any injury on his property but to the public benefit there would be virtually no affect . I ' hope that helps somewhat. Emmings : It just doesn ' t look like curb and gutter is going to make any difference here. I guess if the City Engineer , if the motion passes the Iway it' s schedule, if the City Engineer has a different opinion on that when he gets to City Council . . .but the site , all of it seems to have been taken care of on the site . IEllson : But your motion you still didn ' t put number 1 in right? I Batzli : And you didn ' t accept Steve ' s friendly amendment about the adding it at a later date and that kind of thing? Erhart: I ' ll do it if somebody wants it in there, I ' ll agree. IBatzli : Do you agree with that amendment? IIWildermuth: Sure. Erhart moved , Wildermuth seconded that the Planning Commission recommend I approval of Site Plan t#89-3 for the construction of a 2, 920 sq. ft . garage facility as shown on the Site Plan dated April 13 , 1989 with the following conditions : I1. Additional landscaping shall be prov]ded as required by city staff . ■ i Planning Commission Meeting May 17, 1989 - Page 54 , 2. The applicant shall receive a replat of the site to combine Lots 1 and 2, Park One. 3. There shall be no outside storage other than one (1) transport flat bed ' which shall be stored between the two garages . 4. All parking and driveway areas shall be paved and surrounded by , concrete curb and gutter only if now or in the future the City Engineer determines that they are necessary. 5. The applicant shall submit for approval by the City Engineer a drainage " and erosion plan prior to final approval . Erhart, Emmings , Wildermuth and Batzli voted in favor of the motion and Conrad and Ellson voted in opposition of the motion. The motion carried with a vote of 4 to 2. Ellson : I want number 1 in there. Emmings : Annette wants number 1 in there . Ladd wants to table it. Conrad: I think it should be tabled. There were 4 out of 6 points that were disagreed to by the applicant versus staff and I think somethings, I ' would have preferred to have the engineer look at. I 'm also very concerned about future owners and what this property looks like and I don ' t know that that has been incorporated as a sale could occur . ' APPROVAL OF MINUTES : Conrad moved , Ellson seconded to approve the Minutes of the Planning Commission meeting dated May 3 , 1989 as presented. All II voted in favor except Batzli and Wildermuth who abstained and the motion carried. OPEN , N DISCUSSION. Emmings : Do we want to add airports to our on-going? I was outside ' watering my garden this morning at about 6 : 15. A helicopter was out going over TH 5 and I think it was probably one of the traffic reporters. Conrad: The one that was out by our house had the ability to spray. Had the big tubes on the bottom. y Emmi.ngs: It was incredibly loud . Batzli : Is there anything in the City ordinances about landing airplanes with pontoons on them on the lakes? ' Emmings : Yes . Minnewashta is the only one that we ' ve got that they can do that . I _.._` I ..CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION IREGULAR MEETING JUNE 21, 1989 Chairman Conrad called the meeting to order at 7 : 35 p.m. . I MEMBERS PRESENT: Tim Erhart, Steve Emmings , Annette Ellson, Ladd Conrad , Brian Batzli , Jim Wildermuth and David Headla I STAFF PRESENT: Jo Ann Olsen, Asst. City Planner, Gary Warren, City Engineer and Mark Koegler , Planning Consultant I PUBLIC HEARING: PRELIMINARY PLAT TO REPLAT LOTS 1 AND 2, BLOCK 1, PARK ONE 3RD ADDITION INTO ONE LOT, LOT 1, BLOCK 1, QUATTRO ADDITION, ON PROPERTY ZONED IOP, IINDUSTRIAL OFFICE PARK AND LOCATED ON WEST 77TH STREET, FORTIER AND ASSOCIATES. Jo Ann Olsen presented the staff report. IChairman Conrad called the public hearing to order . II Emmings moved , Erhart seconded to close the public hearing . All voted in favor and the motion carried. The public hearing was closed. lirConrad : Just in general , I won ' t go around the Commission. Any comments? Anything? N. Emmings : I would change one word in the recommendation where it says the I final plat should provide the typical front, side and rear easements . I would just change typical to required . Typical , I don ' t know what that means. IEmmings moved , Batzli seconded that the Planning n Commission recommend approval of Subdivision #89-2 to replat Lots 1 and 2, Block 1, Park One 3rd I Addition into Lot 1, Block 1, Quattro Addition as shown on the preliminary plat dated May 25, 1989 with the condition that the final plat provide the required front , side and rear easements . All voted in favor and the motion Icarried. PUBLIC HEARING: IWETLAND ALTERATION PERMIT FOR THE FILLING AND DREDGING WITHIN A CLASS A AND CLASS B WETLAND LOCATED ON LAKE DRIVE, SOUTH OF HWY 5 AND NORTH OF LAKE SUSAN, CITY OF CHANHASSEN. IJo Ann Olsen presented the staff report. IChairman Conrad called the public hearing to order . Emmings moved, Wildermuth seconded to close the public hearing . All voted in favor and the motion carried . The public hearing was closed . I • I 1 1 1 ' ` z 1 J � L � 310.4(. - -;2.4 ''2_4- --, -71/) I NA 6 N_ 711) N --_,,,, ,...._. N ?, \ �_ N " 0 \ N 0 I . 1 1 \ 304. I \\\\ 1 \ r I \,\,,, \ \ 11 r ...„. I \ \ \ `I \_ 1 N -____ ■ I I I I Ex,�T 1 ■ \ I ,,T F-T 1` ` ,I 11 3y2' \ \ T \ \ 1 \ I o■ Y �\ \ 1 \ 5Xi T ?wEMEHT \\ 'VI \ \ \ \ I ) \ \\ f."4.1y._. \ \ I1 � 1 j 1 \- \ \� ---- 31594' _ - --J i / W. 77th. STREET ab/ g36 v I PRELIMINARY PLAT ,u = ,01-v° I I I )RTIER & ASSOCIATES, INC. PRELIMINARY iITECTS PLANNERS INTERIOR DESIGNERS -►RNFKE ROAD GOLDEN VALLEY,MINNESOTA 55416 (812)5G3-1255 CHANHASSEN, MINI I .1 � 1 1 DESIGN DATA ..1 - 1 ( 1 LEGAL' DESCRIPTION - LOT ONE & LOT TWO, BLOCK ONE, PARK ONE THIRD ADDITION AREAS LOT ONE 47, 157 sq. ft. 1 .08 acres LOT TWO 46, 116 sq. ft. 1 .06 acres ADJACENT PROPERTY OWNERS & ZONING N - IOP WAYTECH, INC. E - IOP VER-SA-TIL INC. S - IOP THE PRESS, INC. W - IOP LYMAN LUMBER, INC. PROPOSAL IS TO COMBINE LOTS ONE & TWO INTO A SINGLE LOT. LEGAL DESCRIPTION 1 LOT ONE, BLOCK ONE, QUATTRO ADDITION 1 AREA 93 , 273 sq. ft. 2. 14 acres STANDARD 10 ft. DRAINAGE AND UTILITY EASEMENTS WILL BE PROVIDED ALONG ALL PROPERTY LINES. THERE CURRENTLY IS NO EASEMENT BETWEEN LOTS 1 & 2 . 1 1