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1c. Lake Ann Park Expansion I CITY OF CHANHASSEN ‘IJC! • 447:;4:- 690 COULTER DRIVE • P.O. BOX 147 • CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900 MEMORANDUM 1:'?dGr;, '-; TO: Don Ashworth, City Manager Dat--17144r- _ FROM: Lori Sietsema , Park and Recreation Coordinator txts DATE: August 19 , 1988 SUBJ: Lake Ann Park Expansion Attached please find the revised Master Plan for the Lake Ann Park expansion and a description of such. The Park and Recreation Commission reviewed this plan at their last meeting and unanimously recommended its approval. MI On' Cid 1,j141-‘11V Ma eron& Schelen ANEW Associates,inc. 2021 East Hennepin Avenue Minneapolis,MN 55413 612-331-8660 1 AX 331-3806 Engineers Surveyors August 16, 1988 Planners Ms. Lori Sietsema Park & Recreation Coordinator City of Chanhassen 690 Coulter Drive Chanhassen, MN 55317 Re: Lake Ann Park, Chanhassen, MN Dear Lori : Lake Ann is a beautiful and unique community park in the City of Chanhassen. The need and opportunity has come for the City to expand the facilities in the park. The City has specific needs for more play fields as well as to add much needed additional parking. Initial exploration of existing conditions revealed many characteristics and patterns that should be emulated in future design. The existing entry to Lake Ann is warm and inviting. The park is slowy revealed to users and the hill and hi-points along Highway 5 complete the feeling of "getting away from it all" when you enter the park. Any new entry to Lake Ann should attempt to capture a similar feeling. Growth of the park required an expansion of the road system and additional ' parking. The concept plan suggests a road system that is fed from the current park road and will easily be able to accomodate a new access point off Highway 5. Over 200 additional parking spaces have been added and it is possible to expand existing parking in some areas of the park. The existing play fields contribute to the uniqueness of the park in the way the landforms and vegetation wrap around the fields. This provides viewing areas and special spaces for playing and in fact was a very creative way to handle the steep and rolling existing topography of the area. This feature gives Lake Ann a character that is out of the ordinary, very pleasing, and can be repeated for the future play fields. The new land that has been incorporated into Lake Ann allows for expansion of existing picnicking areas. There is a natural hi-point on the north end of the park that provides for excellent views toward the lake and town. This area is close to the play structure and the new park shelter and begins to create a center of activity. The area is large enough and it would be appropriate to place a large covered picnic shelter here that could accomodate many types of functions and users, ie the elderly and handicapped. The steep slopes immediately to the north of the new shelter provide the opportunity for a natural ampitheater for many types of activities. These new functions in companion with the existing play area and shelter create a dynamic, versatile park center. I 11 Page Two August 16, 1988 Ms. Lori Sietsema ' I appreciate the opportunity to present this concept plan to you and look forward to working on its implementation. Best regards, LAIR & ASSOCIATES ' Laurie McRostie LM:alr Enclosures c: Don Ashworth, City Admin. , City of Chanhassen I r I 1 I I I I I t �// ■ I b,lu,mnuus pcdestnan/bKyde tau I , ) \ ,. I t r,!!(///Py e',. , / /41, ,./•,�n� fi/ /�/�. , // `/// '// '%/:,b//////, l /',— / - •\ / ::/„r;/;:-j11f//I,l / / ' / ,;'-,I 1111 ,•BOAT / /I- /1 , rrpsd basal n•ntl h,hn,x J,u1 -V/ ll..i �, / II;II(i 1 1,11.1• /nn . ' • BEACH \w„�.J;.,� 'R ',,. 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Soccer --- - /4,,•0,- Mihail/ ..‘„/,/,',.•,..--- - / I SOCer, , //// i \\\ N.:\ / 7 ' I / .' / 1 / / / , /- \\, .,‘ -,,____ (.._ , 10,00rance hitt,'" 111 i• 01'- ,r-i■••• r l ( ) rri l EL EK-IENII ,\\ ,, • • 7-1 \ -1 2 8 1 - tc INICAL SLXVICE r°SUSLIER NEAR LAKE 5 , [LI 1 1 • 50.----A--''—r-----"\---..;Vr70, _ ‘ spaces .,,, Zi Z tree latin 1 I rot Qi= 3 I 11110 , 1 , I o 0 110 (n (I) \\, 7)3 L.:I u \ tennis \ i -■ halve tennts -- y 1,) \ MIS- 7 Existing i , , ,-k-, - I I ',, . . , New t Berm Butter& scree ),;, , -;., Distithetion Line _ 1 H 5 TOTAL PARKING SPACES 382 TH 5 (SERVE PLAYING FIELDS) EMS INC SAW AK) SL WI It--- -. IN1/11141 SCALE:1,100" .., e111.1111".1M16.11.1.1..1 I0 25 50 me SOO 400 C/Soltla Miell , 0 Idayeron I. LAKE ANN PARK ';': Assoctoote Inc. ._. ___ ._ ---__ __- Chanhassen,MN ....,..... “........i •,., 1 . I ..■■.•el M•......•••••••0.......I.•Sh 30313...013 33.63.13. ".. 3.3. mcomo co.,s. 0.11 II LAKE ANN, CHANHASSEN PRELIMINARY COST ESTIMATE AUGUST 8, 1988 1 Park Roads 1370 L.F. x 24 3,653 sq. yd. @ $7.00 sq. yd. $ 25,570 , Parking Lots (No curb and gutter 3" on 4" base) #1 (50 spaces) 1849 s.y. #2 (28 spaces) 926 s.y. #3 (50 spaces) 1849 s.y. #4 (74 spaces) 2346 s.y. TOTAL 6971 s.y. @ $7.00 sq. yd 48,797 Common Excavation (Does not include ballfields) I 38,888 cu. yd. x $1.50 58,333 Seed - 12 ac (NQ ballfields) $800/ac 9,600 ' SUBTOTAL $142,300 3 Softball Fields/1 Overlay Soccer Field 1 Includes rough and fine grading, backstop, seed $ 10,900 + 1100 L.F. galvanized chain link fence 7 ' high 12,988 23,888 x 3 fields 71,664 Soccer Field , Includes rough and fine grading, goal posts, seed 11,900 SUBTOTAL $ 83,564 1 TOTAL ROADS, PARKING, FIELDS $225,864 Future Entry Road - 710 L.F. x 24' = 1893 S.Y. @ $7.00/S.Y. $ 13,250 Landscaping (Preliminary) 30,000 ' CONSTRUCTION COST TOTAL $269,114 Engineering Fee - 7.0% 18,838 1 $287,952 Planning Fee 3,500 ' CONSTRUCTION AND FEES TOTAL $291,452 Electrical Service Extension Collins Electric has provided cost estimate for electrical extension to park shelter I II Park and Recreation Commission Meeting IAugust 9, 1988 - Page 19 IIMady moved , Robinson seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission reconsider the motion of the prior meeting concerning Tim Erhart' s property concerning trail easements and recognize that he has no reason at I this time to put in a trail easement along his property as it' s not being developed at this time and hold that off until development occurs on the property to review trail easements at that time. All voted in favor and Ithe motion carried . APPROVAL OF LAKE ANN PARK EXPANSION PLAN. Sietsema: Laurie McRostie is here to present the revised concept plan. This is the first step before we get into grading and construction plans I for the Lake Ann Park expansion. Some of you might remember Laurie from, she used to work with VanDoren, Hazard, Stallings and she did the Herman Field plan. Remember that? IILaurie McRostie : Seeing I ' ve had an opportunity to work in Chanhassen before and I 'm certainly glad to be back and have a chance to do it again. My folks live in Chanhassen so I get out here once in a while to visit I them. I would say maybe this process started a little over a month ago , maybe a month and a half ago where the City contact my firm and asked if we could come out and provide a proposal for looking at a redesign and I expanding the master plan for Lake Ann and then doing the engineering services and grading plan and the things that you need to do to have the park built. I got involved then in looking at the park and just going out II and doing a site visit, talking to Lori and seeing what kind of things you wanted to have there and looking at the plan that you had done previously and trying to put all those impressions together . This diagram came out of it . Where I 'd like to start with that is just to , I feel like there I are a lot of things going on out at Lake Ann. It ' s a large park, a little over 9 acres all together and there are lots of opportunities that have already been developed. I see the park kind of working in, I 'm thinking I about it almost in terms of rooms . You ' ve got like your existing play fields in this area where the room starts to get to be really defined by the strong edges that you' ve got all the way around the fields with the I berms and the vegetation and I think that that' s something that is, I like it a lot. It' a a lot different that most athletic community parks where everything is just flat and there are no trees and no shade and no comfortable places for people to sit and look at things. You' ve also got I a picnic area up in this high spot where you 've got the volleyball court and horseshoes are up there and there are some picnic tables and that kind of thing. What' s going on there though is it ' s got real steep access . I It' s not accessible to maybe all people in the community. The elderly and the handicap. You can get up there but it ' s not as easily as other places could be. You ' ve got another area which is your beach area . It starts to meander down here along the lake. Also, then your boat access starts to I form another area . The picnic things that go on there, with the acquisition that' s happened with this whole addition to the park, I see an opportunity to establish new rooms . New uses maybe. Expanding old uses. I Particularly your play fields. You've got a whole area over on this side where we' re going to hopefully add as many fields as possible. Ultimately three ballfields and two soccer fields . You also have the need then to I Park and Recreation Commission Meeting August 9 , 1988 - Page 20 I add parking in that general area . When I got on the site and started to walk it, I really saw that this is probably the highest spot in the park right here and you can see, you stand up here and even getting over to the edge, floating over this way. You don' t necessarily have to be way out over on the actually the 1010 contour . You' ve got incredible views . You can see both back to the Lake and then you can see almost to the river so it really gets to be, I think a prominent point. At one point I know it II was also thinking about it being as a place for the carousel building and this diagram was prepared , since I heard that the carousel building is definitely out but maybe there' s an opportunity for something else to happen there that wouldn' t necessarily be the carousel building . I also ' saw then, where you've got your playlot and the picnic shelter that the Legion is building , it gets to be, and a lot of the high area , it gets to be a real center for Lake Ann Park. I think the. . .areas focus around it . ' You can see the woods from there. There' s this picnic area here. You can see the beach. Maybe there' s an opportunity here to pull some things together right in this area and kind of have a center that goes along with II your picnic shelter and that kind of thing. What else is happening here is that , I looked at the entry to the park now because there' s been a lot of discussion about the existing entry as well as an alternative or a new access off of, who knows what this road will be called but off TH 5 basically. Where it will line up with the road right across the street. Hopefully it will improved the entrancing and exiting into the park so it will be easier to get out onto TH 5 here. Someday this might be signaled II or at least there may be stop signs that would stop traffic on TH 5 or something like that. Schroers : Would you be thinking of having two way traffic both ways or would you be thinking of having an entrance maybe where it is now and then running it around in a loop and having an exit out of the other side? Basically one way. ' Laurie McRostie : Probably not , would be my suggestion. When I get to the plan I think I can develop a rationale that' s coming out of this. What I II liked about the entries , you get a real strong impression about the park. You immediately leave TH 5 behind and that' s because I think of the hills that are there right at the edge. They make a real strong buffer right now. It just adds to the character of the park. I think that' s something II we should try to enhance and maybe improve or at least do try to duplicate if the entrance gets changed to somewhere along this road which would give in easier access out to TH 5. I think that would be the main reason to change the entrance to the park. I can ' t see from looking at what' s going on out there, any other reason to do that . Because this would be something that was supposed to be with the expansion , maybe you could improve this entryway with minimal costs to accerelation and turn lanes or something like that on TH 5. After looking then at the park in that light , to develop a concept that would be able to use the entry as it is and to answer your question now, this is still suggesting a two way system that moves through the park and you can get to all the facilities that way but you have to come back out the same way. I think that that gives you the advantage of being able to control the entrance and exiting from the park and that kind of thing. You don ' t have too many entrances or two gates that you have to staff and watch as long as you charge fees to use I/ Park and Recreation Commission Meeting IIAugust 9 , 1988 - Page 21 IIthe park . You want to control that as much as you can. This plan then is keeping the existing ballfields where they are, in using the system that II you' ve already got in place and I think that there are a lot of advantages to that. There has been a lot of talk about expanding fields , moving fields, changing orientation and that kind of thing and I guess I would recommend to leave them the way they are . First of all you don' t want to I take them out of commission and not be able to play on them. Secondly, you've got an awful lot of plant material that ' s really old and established there and it would be costly to move. I guess my feeling is, I I think you' ve got something . . .and actually we should try to duplicate it and repeat it. I think there' s a concept out there that is strong and it gives Lake Ann Park something that' s unique that a lot of other community parks don ' t have and so that we could arrange the ballfields in the manner II that you see here , and these are all drawings so you would be able to have regulation 300 foot fence lines on these fields . The design will take all three of them so it ' s a little bit bigger than these. Then also to lay I over a soccer field over one of the ballfields and then there would be room in this area to actually have an independent soccer field . What that starts to accomplish then is to have larger soccer fields in one area so II you can have group playings and that kind of thing so they' re not spread out or put in a different place. And then it also keeps all of the ballfields basically in the same area . The circulation system then that I looked at was to basically keep the existing road system the way it is . II At this point to take out a new segment of it and come up into this area of the park and start to use some of this vacant land for parking. In addition to that , I would also like to suggest that we keep these hills I down by the boat and to not flatten them for parking or to not flatten them into fields but to use them as they are now and to enhance the screening that you 've got there. To punch in a road at this point and create another 78 spaces for cars . Maybe come through here, turn around 1 and come back out. If at some point it is decided that you do want to have access into the park off this new future road , you'd be able to do it this way and extend about 700 to 800 feet of road right through here and I connect into this system and just have this duplicated through here and not have to change anything at all down here except this segment of road would be gone and you'd have that segment . IISchroers: Did you say 78 parking spaces in that lower area? Laurie McRostie : Right down here. There are 50 in this space and then 28 I in that space. Overall I ' ve expanded , there are 382 parking spaces on this plan . You have existing 180. That ' s in this area serving the ball fields. You ' ve got a few additional parking spaces up here but I didn' t I inlcude those in my totals because I don ' t think that they serve the ballfields. People aren' t parking down here to walk up to play on the fields . Another part of this plan that you ' re showing is , your concern for two entrances or an exit to the park, it may work here to actually I just have one small road that would come off this parking lot. It could be a controlled secured access. Maintenance people, once this road is built , could use this as a back door . Any kind of emergency that we have II to come down here, somebody could get in through here and use that as a backdoor . It might be quicker to going down this road than coming up into the park than it would be to come through that way. Another consideration II Park and Recreation Commission Meeting August 9, 1988 - Page 22 ' turns a loop road is that you' ve got really a lot of topography up here. I It's going to be tough I think to grade this area. It can be done and I think it can be done in duplicating the same concept that you' ve got in your existing fields with higher slopes around the edges that can be used II for viewing or planting and that kind of thing but it' s going to get real steep and crowded to try and bring a little road through here. I don' t know that it really gains much more than expense . That ' s why at least I this plan has not indicated a loop road. I guess my recommendation would be that you don' t put a loop road. Schroers : By a loop, do you mean just going around so it connects back to II the entrance road? What I was wondering about was a horseshoe type where you would enter off of TH 5 possibly where it exists now and then come back out to TH 5 as an exit only of one way traffic so you would still II only have one gate facility to control . There' s no need really to control the exit. If you can handle larger traffic, say on like the 4th of July weekend when you had a lot of people in there, that would be smoother . I Lynch: We talked about this on and off for years as the upgrade to TH 5 has been discussed and the ability to have a stop light at this point II opposite of the industrial park. My general opinion over the years is that the park goes to waste for large activities. We can' t use it for 4th of July. We don' t have the parking . We don' t have the entrance. Egress . It just can not be used. Two of the things we need to do that would be II have, and this is the last time for this , four years ago the consensus was that the present entrance would stay an entrance and would have a horseshoe affair and in this area there would be an outlet only. As I Laurie mentioned earlier, you would only have to have the one gate then because you only have one entrance . Also , this would be, if that intersection had a stoplight, you could have magnetic, on demand signal II controls there so the stop light would only affect turnouts from here if somebody was there. It' s not going to be one of these things where you pull up and wait for 15 minutes at the light and there ' s nobody there. The other item is we have insufficient parking community events there and II I think we'd probably all like to see more done with the parking on a community basis. We were talking several years ago about additional strip parking in this area , opening that up, bringing this down and here ' s our I hilltop here. Since this is gone in, we were talking about some additional parking right in here before it drops off into a hole because really now, just the firemen' s tournament overwhelms the parking . It presents a heck of an enforcement problem because we have no parking there and they' re supposed to get a ticket and then we give the Fire Department a permit to have a tournament where we know there ' s not enough parking so then we have to tell the police, tag everybody but these guys. Don' t II ticket these guys this weekend . Ticket the other people next weekend . It' s a problem and it' s tough on the maintenance folks. It' s wet and they leave ruts so we do need some concentrated parking right along the II ballfields and of course we put new ones on this side. We need more parking for ballfields than exists on that side. We need to increase this site I think. Schroers : Mike, I don ' t know if you or Lori knows but right now at our II 7: 15 game or 7 : 00, our middle game, the existing parking that we have for II ' Park and Recreation Commission Meeting IAugust 9, 1988 - Page 23 Ithose three fields is maxed out . Just your normal league play. We' re not even talking special events . I Lynch : What I 've noticed , I coached ball out there a lot, if you' re playing on this field, if there' s no parking at this lot, they' ll park on the grass there . There could be parking in that lot but they won ' t go I there. They won' t go to the parking for the next so it almost has to be based on per site. How many people is this field going to take? How many places do we need there and not look at it as a total . I 'd sure like to I have 4th of July celebrations and other types of things out there. We lose a lot of the use of the facility because of that. Laurie McRostie : Maybe just to finish up the plan and then we can go on I but you' re right, this is absolutely a space. You ' ve got space to expand these parking areas and I guess part of what has to be decided tonight is what this commission wants to spend money on. One of the last page on I here is a very preliminary cost estimate of what this plan has described . You' ll see that things get just to be expensive so that is something that has to be decided is where do you want to spend your money expanding these parking areas? Only build these parking areas and just the ballfield? I There are lots of combinations of things that can be done. This plan, what these four additional parking lots is adding about 212 parking spaces . I do think that we need to have it possible to expand in this I area so we can be directly related to those ballfields. It always amazing that people that go to play athletics don ' t walk to the fields but that ' s the way it is. Two other things that this plan is suggesting is that this I area up here, you expand your picnic area . Then there ' s an opportunity I think to, at sometime in the future to put a large shelter in here. Something where you can have those 4th of July activities and there ' s just a covered area where you can picnic. It ' s not necessarily like the I concession stand that ' s planned out here or this park shelter . There will just maybe be lights . Maybe water . Not other facilities in there but just a great big shelter that would take advantage of those views each way I and start to connect the area. Then I also saw the opportunity along with this more community passive area as a natural ampitheater with the landform already going there . So you have shelter here and an ampitheater I going here where you could have pageants or plays that could go in combination with those other activities that would happen all summer long actually. So I think it' s a pretty simple plan. . . . it comes with electric with the one , the field lighting and I talked with them today and I found out what the situation was because I 've been hearing a lot of different things about where the power was and all that and there' s conduits out to these lights but it ' s empty. The power is still back at I the entrance gate . The man that I had talked to said that maybe a year and a half ago he did prepare a cost estimate to get power out here so that ' s something the City has got in their file although, like everything has gone up. To get power out here, we can ' t just run wires. It' s not so I simple. There has to be a transformer and a new panel box put in and I think that' s what got so expensive when we were looking at it before and it ' s probably why you didn ' t do it at that time but that has not changed. I That figure is not included with this preliminary cost estimate. So I don ' t know if you want to just quickly look at costs and maybe we can talk about phasing it in or how the Commission sees it happening or what they'd r M Park and Recreation Commission Meeting August 9 , 1988 - Page 24 I like to see happen here. What I did was the cost of the roads and parking I lots and have left out, this is a separate item, this future entry road . To get just the parking lots and the road built, and then that area restored and seeded, in these preliminary estimates was about $142,300. 00. II Going down onto the three softball fields with the one soccer overlay and then the soccer field independently, those fields, and that includes the rough and final grading which is , I estimate in those road excavation II numbers. The backstop and the seeding and then also the ballfields have about 1, 100 lineal feet around the whole ballfields with a 7 foot high chainlink fence. The soccer field then again would be the rough and final II grading with. . .and seeding that whole area so with just the ballfields, the playing fields themselves came to about $80, 500. 00 so putting both the parking and fields , that alone came out to, this preliminary estimate is $225, 864 . 00. We could maybe at this time, I 'm not sure where you would II want to put the future entry road into your budget. Maybe that' s something that should not come out of the referendum that ' s been passed to make improvements at Lake Ann. That should be something that' s not really 1 included because that gives us another $13,000. 00 to play with. There may be things that may be far more beneficial and to save it or to plan for this segment of road or a segment some other place in the park. I've only 1 put a preliminary landscaping number in there of $30, 000. 00 and there is not a plan yet for that but until the grading plan is developed , there would really not be a landscaping plan. The concept would be to duplicate or replicate what you' ve already done. I like it . I think you' ve got II something really good going out there. I don ' t see any reasons necessarily to change that . The engineering fees are listed in here and that was based on that final construction cost . 7% of that is a standard II engineering contract fee that we have with the City of Chanhassen . Then there' s been a planning fee that's been added to that. You see the fees come up to about $29, 000. 00. Mady: The referendum was $300, 000. 00 and that included bonding costs. I II believe we have to cover bonding costs . Two, in the Lake Ann capital budget, we do have money at the present time. We have about $100, 000.00 II in the Lake Ann budget. Sietsema: It ' s matching funds. It' s reserved for matching grant funds so if the shelter down by the lake is approved , that would go towards that . Boyt : How much have we got then? Sietsema: I would say, I don ' t know. He was talking about $30, 000. 00 but II I don' t know how much that would be. Robinson : Is any of the rest of this subject to matching funds? 1 Sietsema: Not this park, no . Mady: We can apply for grants but they' re not granting grants for this II type of development. Right? Sietsema : We actually got a grant for this and we turned it down . It was II for $12, 000.00 and at that point we didn' t know if the referendum was 1 II , Y Park and Recreation Commission Meeting August 9 , 1988 - Page 25 going to pass or not . We had to say yea or nay right then and there was no way we could afford the rest of the $300, 000. 00 just because we got $12, 000. 00 to develop but to go ahead and apply for grant money to help us ' on this project, we just submitted applications in May so they' re not accepting applications again until next May or June and then they don' t let you know until the following December so it would be 1991 before we would be able to start construction on grants , if that got approved, and you don ' t know if it' s going to be approved again . ' Mady: A couple comments. What' s your guess. If we were to spend, I know the way Lake Ann exists right now and I 'm taking in some of Ed ' s comments too on the fact that some of the fields, Fields 2 and 3 are short and it' s conceivable we 'd want to use Little League for 3 but number 2. . . I think ' it' s possible for us to expand that field to 269 feet from home plate out to the fences . It would be nice if we could expand that out to a minimum of 285 with a 7 foot fence I think is the ASA approved. We can also ' expand those parking spaces out there. Schroers : I thought it was 275. ' Mady: But that ' s one of the thoughts I had was expanding that one field so then we do have legitimate softball complex they can use the State Tournament or anything . With the regulations right now, it can ' t be. UThree fields is nice but for a tournament, they like four. Boyt : So where would you cut the one in? What area would you take it ' because right now with these numbers we'd have to cut out the future entry road and then you might have enough to get . . . so you ' re going to have to cut a line from someplace else. Mady: We might be able to just , city maintenance staff, street department to expand the parking lot. Fairly minimal . Boyt : But it' s not included in these numbers though. Mady: We can expand that area . Laurie McRostie : You just practically have to run a blade and pave it at this stage. ' Boyt : What I 'm saying is if you want to change that field , you 'd have to take something from this sheet. ' Mady: I ' d like to find out how much it costs to build . Schroers: What you' re talking about, we have 269 feet now and we need 275 so we' re talking about just lengthening or moving the fence back 6 feet ' but if we have to move all the trees that are planted along the outside of the fence to move the fence back 6 feet , we' re going to be spending a lot of money to gain 6 feet of field space. Mady: I ' ve been looking out there . The trees , the way they' re growing right now with the fields , are touching each other and they' re. .but should Park and Recreation Commission Meeting August 9, 1988 - Page 26 II grow. We should probably be thinking of taking every other tree out right I now anyway and utilizing a lot of the smaller ones that can still be easily moved . Schroers : Transplanting them and using them. . . II Boyt: I think we should talk to a specialist about that. I Mady: They' re transplantable. I 'm even buying . . .trees that size. Ed mentioned before that. . . I Schroers : They' re actually getting the point where they' re faily borderline. I do tree transplantings in my job and I have transplanted trees that size. However , you would rather transplant smaller . . . I Mady: What happens in the future as they grow larger? Schroers : Large trees grow real close to each other in a woods. It' s II just how aesthetically pleasing do you want it? Do you want it to be a real manicured look or do you have a problem with the trees growing together? II Sietsema : If I could add something about moving the fence. Number one, I think State Tournaments, don' t they just need four fields and we'd have I 300 foot fences on Field 1 and the three new fields. That would leave the other two for practices which would be awful nice. If we needed that other field and that was a problem, we could make the fence higher rather II than moving it out to accomodate and they would probably allow it if we were in a bind . Personally, I don ' t know if it' s going to be worth the expense to move it for 6 feet. I think we need to look into other alternatives before we go and decide whether to move it . I Schroers: The grade drops immediately behind the fence too so if we' re going to move the fence back 6 feet, we would also have to fill and grade II back. Lynch: Wouldn' t it be a lot easier , if you' re talking 6 feet. . . II Hoffman: You would actually want to move it more than that. Lynch : Why not move the backstop 6 feet? I Mady: Because you have a hill up there. Lynch : We' ve got a hill there but that ' s a heck of a lot easier than I moving a fence. Hoffman: We have no room. The out of bound areas there are so minimal I now that even the out of bound lines are a problem on Field 2. Lynch : Because of the hill? I 1 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting IIAugust 9 , 1988 - Page 27 IHoffman : Yes . Because of the hill . The angle of what the grade is at there now. How they graded at that angle is not exactly 90 degrees and again , if you wanted to move it back to 275 , you' d almost want to move it I back somewhere between 285 and 300 right now for a State or a national tournament right now they require a 300 foot field distance which we would have on the three new fields and Field 1. IIBoyt : For a State Tournament you ' re required to have four fields which we would have. IIHoffman: Not required but in order to go ahead and schedule. Laurie McRostie: It would be worth it to put your money in. IMady: That ' s what we wanted to find out . That was a question that I had wanted to raise. I know Ed had that question previously. ILaurie McRostie : I think it' s a good question and maybe the expansion occurs in the park. IMady: Maybe they don' t do it for 15 years . Schroers: To address your plan there, I like it. I like what you' re I saying . I like the idea of keeping the aesthetics . I think if you talk to anyone who actively uses Lake Ann, especially the ball players , we feel real good about the facilities that we have there. We think that Lake Ann I is as good as anyplace around and a lot better than most. We 've all played on a lot worse fields than Lake Ann and we also like the berm and the hill effect with the shade and keeping the aesthetics intact would certainly be what we would like to do . I think what we really want to I achieve, along with having more fields is an emphasize on the parking and being able to get people in and out . It seems to me the horseshoe effect and the one way traffic makes a lot of sense because you can have two II lanes entering and you can have two lanes leaving and you have parking lots on both sides of the road so one lane can go off one way and the other lane can go off the other way and it seems like a smooth, constant uncomplicated flow. It' s just all one way. It' s just in and it' s just I out and making something easily accessible and exitable, I think that' s a good idea. I Mady: I think you can accomplish that in the future with the, once the new road goes in, Eckankar property develops , that is very easily done with moving the entrance over so it' s right across from Chanhassen Lakes IDrive or whatever . Sietsema: It ' s Park Drive. I Mady: Right now the park entrance is on TH 5 right there, moved in . If you would exit high up on the right-of-way up in that area, it works perfectly. 1 Laurie McRostie : I think that ' s a really good idea . II . 1 Park and Recreation Commission Meeting August 9, 1988 - Page 28 I Sietsema: Something else that we have to consider is that I doubt very II much, I really have strong doubts that MnDot will allow us to keep our existing access once they extend Park Drive. When they put in that new road. They won' t allow us to have that second access because they don' t II want that many accesses onto TH 5. Especially after it goes to 4 lanes which is supposed to happen in the next year or so. When Park Drive is put in , that will be a neighborhood or some kind of development which I II would think they could either come down to TH 5 or else shoot up and go out and end up on Powers Blvd . somewhere . If it ' s a development, like a single family, they'd be going through neighborhood streets and going out somewhere and maybe we wouldn' t want that open all the time and that would ' just be for heavy use or security or maintenance access. We could close that off during normal park use and just use the one access that would come off of TH 5 because obviously we don' t want an entrance coming into a park through a neighborhood but for a special event or for a large tournament or something, that would provide us with a second access to get the traffic out more efficiently. But I seriously have my doubts that II MnDot will allow us to have both Park Drive and an access to Lake Ann off TH 5 so if you want the horseshoe effect , I think it' s going to have to go off of Park Drive. Mady: The future entry road , the $13 , 000. 00 for that , that will be used I for the gravel and bituminous, is that what you' re thinking there? So in the grading plan you would actually grade it , not necessarily flat so in II the future. . . Laurie McRostie : Right . You'd seed it . I Mady: So at a future date we would just go through there and lay off blacktop and black dirt and put in gravel? Robinson: Laurie, I think I missed something. On your first chart you I had the focus high point and you said that was the highest point for the park. On the second one it looked like you've got that parking lot of 50 II spaces . . . Laurie McRostie : That' s true. I guess what I was trying to talk about in the presentation is that this is the high point. Topographically but I II don ' t know that we turn to get anything over there in terms of park facilities. You've got to keep bringing them into the park it would be better and it still is high here and you still have the views off this II way. I think this would be trussed anywhere or be brought down a little bit with that parking area . I don' t know if your question is leading to the fact that we have parking on the highest point in the park . I Robinson : There would have to be some grading there? Laurie McRostie: Right and as much screening as we can but to get the II facility, the useable , what you think, the useable parts into the. . . Mady: I was looking at that area as an archery range. Maybe that' s what 1 that could be. II I Park and Recreation Commission Meeting IAugust 9, 1988 - Page 29 ISchroers : That ' s kind of an in-house. . . Hoffman: Some discussion on the soccer fields . As they indicated, it's I used now and in future use , the one that ' s indicated as the lying there over the present Field 1, it' s currently not being used to any great extent or not being used at all because of the scheduling of the softball II fields so there' s really not an opportunity for that to be used as a soccer field . Then again , the new soccer field overlay would really not be useable if indeed you put your fence in there. Right there' s your I obstruction . That would not be useable as a soccer field and really, the only useable soccer field would be the totally separate indicated soccer field in the new development . II Mady: One thing we could do though is , until the south park goes in , not put a fence on that field and then you just play it as an open field until we have other soccer fields available. I would think that once we have I the 6 fields inhere for fall league, if we have the need for soccer, I would like to see us restrict the fall softball league to allow for soccer for the kids in the City because we don' t have anyplace for soccer and we II can get by with four softball fields in the fall anyway. Hoffman: The big use right now for soccer is the summer soccer. Summer soccer leagues during the summer . The summer is the younger kids up here Iand then the fall is the high school . Mady: We may have to restrict Field 1 to the soccer and Babe Ruth I baseball and juggle scheduling for that and take softball completely out of that. I don' t think it ' s a problem with that because if we ' re providing 4 to 6 softball fields out there and we can juggle one to have at least 2 soccer fields available to the kids , that ' s a pretty good Itrade-off at least until the south park develops . Sietsema: But you can ' t have soccer and baseball going on the same field Iin the same season. Mady: If soccer is Tuesdays and Thursday and baseball is Mondays and Wednesdays , that' s fine. ISietsema : In the same season you can ' t do that because that means you' ve got goals in the middle of your baseball field . IBoyt : They have to line fields for soccer . II Sietsema: The lining isn ' t a problem because they can play baseball over the lines but you' d have your goals . . . Mady: The goals wouldn' t have to be fastened down do they? IHoffman : They' re fairly heavy. I Sietsema : They' re fairly heavy and you' re talking , it ' s a maintenance thing. II Park and Recreation Commission Meeting August 9, 1988 - Page 30 ' Mady: We have maintenance people out there dragging the fields daily. They could hook up their tracter to it and pull it off. I guess I don' t see it as more than a 10 minute task. It looks like we have enough space for the new areas and we've got to expand what we've got. If we' re ever going to be able to enforce our parking and get that park the way it' s supposed to be, we've got to expand the one right next to Field 2. Laurie McRostie : The landscaping number is one that could be easily explained a little bit in terms of that parking as well as the entry road. Future entry road . The grading cost have already been included in the engineering and maybe that might be. . . Mady: One of the thoughts I had was spading those trees that exist down there to be utilized them, if we want to take the chance because they are filling out to where they are touching each other now. That would save us a considerable amount of money. We do have the tree farm but it won' t be very big for a lot of years . ' Sietsema: It' s empty. Mady: Well , there ' s quite a bit of trees in the back park there. ' Boyt: I think we need to, unfortunately we need to keep the future entry road in there. If we have the information from staff that looks like MnDot is going to want us to do that, we can' t ignore that and be responsible . Mady: If we put parking in where the 28 spaces . . . . it would probably be I $30, 000. 00. If I remember Don' s discussion previously. . . Boyt : Didn ' t we take in record monies this year at Lake Ann? Couldn' t we II use that for some of the expansion of parking? Is that designated? Sietsema: It goes in the general fund so you could make the recommendation to start a new policy to put that back into the park. Mady: We were over $17, 000. 00 last time we heard . Robinson: That's what it was last year , $17, 000. 00. Mady: This year already. ' Boyt : We' ve over what our total was last year . That would be enough to expand the parking. , Mady: I 'm sure the road maintenance staff could expand that parking . Sietsema: It ' s paying the lifeguards right now. It 's not like it 's not being used for the park. Mady: We paid those lifeguards out of general . What we' re saying , we' re I bringing in more money that we anticipated during the end, let us use that for development of the park. Park and Recreation Commission Meeting August 9 , 1988 - Page 31 Sietsema : That ' s fine. You can make that recommendation. mm datzon. ' Boyt: How is it to run the entry right next to a parking lot? If the future entry road were moved up, that 28 space parking . ' Laurie McRostie: What I would recommend that you do with that is to repeat this concept . The same thing that you ' ve got on the edge. Basically that's what this does I guess except for this blank and this blank. You' re right that might save a couple thousand dollars . Boyt: Would it make a big difference in the size? Laurie McRostie : One thing and you ' ll have to decide this and I think it gets to be a matter of aesthetics , that' s what you've got going here is a really nice sense of entry into this park. You really feel like you 've ' come someplace and it' s nice. Where this entry road is put, this suggestion is it' s kind of coming between two hills and it ' s starting to do the same thing. You don ' t see parking until maybe you get around here ' and then you can see parking lots . It depends on, you have to weigh that I guess. Costs, what kind of impression you want people when they' re coming there because you dump one parking lot in their way if you wanted to. There are ways you can, you can heavily landscape that. You can ' maybe push it not too much farther this way but so there ' s a little bit more room there for landscaping, that sort of thing but that is an option that would maybe start to save you some money. It ' s not going to save it up front though. Sietsema : I don ' t think we should get too hung up on the costs because these are estimates. I think what we really need now is your sense of the concept plan so we can proceed from here . Unless there ' s something major that you want to add or delete that would affect the costs , those things we can work out . Boyt : . . .coming up $30, 000. 00 short , that ' s not going to be a big deal? ' Sietsema: I can come back to you with what those costs are going to be. They' re not going to do just for the park . It will be for a major part of the Fire Station and the truck and other things too so that money will be split between the different projects . The bonding costs so that ' s not just our, I ' ll have to come to you and let you know what our share of that bonding costs is . If it ' s just a third of it, then it ' s only $10, 000 . 00. ' Schroers: I have a couple of questions as to the specific use of the new fields . The two fields, are they regulation softball fields? Laurie McRostie: This is the same size but we wouldn' t be able to have it fenced and that kind of thing . Schroers : Now in that plan we ' re not incorporating anything to accomodate Little League, Babe Ruth? Park and Recreation Commission Meeting August 9, 1988 - Page 32 ' Sietsema : It would be converting Field 3 to Little League is what we were II talking about and then continue the Babe Ruth use of Field 3. Mady: All we need to do on really on 3 is to add a mound . Reset the II bases, I would think until . . . Boyt : They have to have dugouts . II Mady: To my knowledge, they don' t play regulation Little League in this area yet. We can still play non-sanctioned Little League so we can get II away with it . Schroers : Is there proposed lighting on any of the new fields? Laurie McRostie: Not in this contract. I don' t think you can afford it . II Sietsema: No , that was never in the plan when we took it to the voters , II no . Mady: I like the plan with the exception I 'd like to see a little more parking on 2, if that' s feasible on the plan. Since you ' re going to have II equipment out there, I think that can be done at the same time but I think that has to be addressed in this next year . We've got to get going . Schroers : I agree that parking is essential . II Mady: It causes problems every year and we won ' t be able to have a major city function out there until we can provide better parking . Sietsema: I agree. We have to have better parking but we' re not going to be able to provide parking to accomodate a major city event. You don' t plan for your ultimate but I agree, there does have to be more parking. That ' s a major consideration. Robinson : This seems like, we ' ve talked about this a number of times and I I think what you ' re showing us here is just about what we' ve hashed through a number of times so, I really like it. Plus you have the little natural ampitheater in there. The picnic area . I Schroers : I think you' ve done a good job and presented it well . Mady: Do you need a motion Lori? II Sietsema : Yes . To recommend approval of the concept plan for the Lake II Ann Park expansion. Mady moved , Robinson seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission 1 recommend to approve the concept plan for the Lake Ann Park expansion as presented with the things that have been addressed by the Commission concerning the parking. All voted in favor and the motion carried. I 1