8a&b. Proposed Garden Center, Land Use Plan Ind to Comm. 0 a-
I
CITY OF
,
C BANHAS SE N
- •
--„, 690 COULTER DRIVE • P.O. BOX 147 • CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
I (612) 937-1900
MEMORANDUM
TO: Don Ashworth, City Manager
te ,-.:111MSJO■
FROM: Barbara Dacy, City Planner
Date suc.irted counco
DATE: September 8 , 1988 '?` 11 -g?
IISUBJ.: Land Use Plan Amendment and Rezoning Request - Kronickt,
The City Council approved the zoning ordinance amendment for
including retail garden centers as a conditional use in the BH,
Business Highway District. The City Council tabled action on the
land use plan amendment and the rezoning request until a specific
site plan is submitted ( see items C and D agenda) .
Staff maintains its original recommendation on both the plan
amendment and rezoning requests .
•
,-� '.C. DATE: June 1 , 1988 , '
CITY OF
C.C. :: :LU :; 1 1988 CASE -3 ,
----.1;) 'LOA 88-7, Rezone 88-3
Prepared by: Dacy/v I
•
STAFF REPORT
PROPOSAL: 1) Zoning Ordinance Amendment to Permit Garden Centers
as a Conditional Use in the BH District (Section 20-7_11
2 ) Land Use Plan Amendment to Redesignate 1 . 7 Acres of
Industrial to Commercial
3 ) Rezoning to Rezone 1. 7 Acres of IOP, Industrial Offic ?'
Park to BH, Business Highway
0
LOCATION: North of and adjacent to West 78th Street, just east of
^ the Dakota Avenue/TH 5 intersection _-,,,;, , , -, II;;;;;;;;-T,ta
II
APPLICANT: Jay Kronick _
1609 Marshall Avenue
Rockville, Maryland 20851 _--__-.- _ __-_ .r
II
1
PRESENT ZONING: BH, Business Highway and IOP, Industrial II
Office Park District
ACREAGE: 3 .7 acres
DENSITY: . I
ADJACENT ZONING
AND LAND USE: N- R-12; multiple family & Eden Prairie
I
{,Q� S- BH; vacant commercial
E- IOP; Redmond Products I
L W- BH; Chanhassen Office Building
W I
WATER AND SEWER: Available to site
II
PHYSICAL CHARAC. : The site is flat and contains a wetland.
2000 LAND USE PLAN: Commercial and Industrial 1
II
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Mr. Jay Kronick
June 1 , 1988
Page 2
BACKGROUND '
The applicant petitioned the city in September, 1987 , to amend
the Rural Residential District to allow garden centers as a con-
ditional
use. The City Council denied the application; however,
the Council encouraged the applicant to locate elsewhere in
- Chanhassen. During the zoning ordinance amendment review pro-
cess, the Planning Commission and City Council determined that a
garden center would be better located in an urban commercial
district rather than a rural district.
ANALYSIS
ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT '
It is proposed that Section 20-714, Conditional Uses in the BH
District be amended to allow garden centers as a conditional use.
In reviewing zoning ordinance amendments, the proposed use should
be reviewed as to its compatibility with the intent of the
district as well as other uses permitted in the district.
The intent of the BH district is to provide for highway oriented
commercial development restricted to a low building profile. A
:garden center is consistent with this intent in that it provides
a specialized retail service for the traveling public. --Although
a predominant portion of this use entails outdoor activities,
it is similar to those already permitted as conditional uses such
as outdoor display of merchandise for sale and screened outdoor
storage. A garden center is compatible with these uses as well
as other permitted uses . In fact, other than its outdoor activi-
ties, a garden center can be less intense than other permitted
uses in the district. A garden center should be controlled as
a conditional use, however, to evaluate the impacts of the out-
door storage areas and sale areas (garden centers are a permitted
use in the BG, Business General District) . '
Given this analysis, staff finds that a garden center should be
included as a conditional use in the BH district. '
RECOMMENDATION
Planning staff recommends the Planning Commission adopt the
following motion:
"The Planning Commission recommends approval of Zoning Ordinance '
Amendment Request 88-7 to amend Section 20-714 , Conditional Uses
in the BH District as follows :
( 5 ) Garden Centers . "
4
IL
Mr. Jay Kronick
June 1 , 1988
Page 3
' LAND USE PLAN AMENDMENT
The subject property is split by the Carver County and Hennepin
' County border. This site was also the subject of a zoning ordi-
nance amendment review for automotive service centers. (The
applicants on that project have decided not to pursue construc-
t tion of the automotive service center. ) The site is also split
as to land use and zoning. The Carver County portion is zoned
BH, Business Highway and is designated on the Land Use Plan as
Commercial. The Hennepin County or the eastern portion of the
' site is zoned IOP, Industrial Office Park and is designated as
Industrial on the Land Use Plan.
' The applicant intends to use the site for a garden center. The
applicant is also considering subdividing in the future to create
another parcel for another commercial use. (This is different
than the automotive service center application which proposed a
' combination of both industrial and commercial uses . ) Because of
the small acreage involved, redesignation of 1 . 7 acres from
Industrial to Commercial will not have a significant impact on
' the availability of industrial land. A majority of the site is
zoned and designated as commercial. Redesignation and rezoning
of this site to one zoning district and land use is appropriate
in order to enforce consistent setback and other zoning regula-
tions .
RECOMMENDATION
' Planning staff recommends the Planning Commission adopt the
following motion:
' "The Planning Commission recommends approval of Land Use Plan
Amendment #88-3 to redesignate 1 . 7 acres of industrial to commer-
cial subject to the approval of the Metropolitan Council. "
REZONING
Given the above analysis, the application to rezone the site to
BH, Business Highway is appropriate.
' RECOMMENDATION
Planning staff recommends the Planning Commission adopt the
' following motion:
"The Planning Commission recommends approval of Rezoning Request
t #88-3 to rezone 1 .7 acres of property from IOP, Industrial Office
Park to BH, Business Highway District, subject to approval of the
Land Use Plan Amendment by the City Council and the Metropolitan
Council. "
is
z . 1
Mr. Jay Kronick
June 1 , 1988
1
Page 4
NOTES FOR FUTURE APPLICATIONS '
If approved, the applicant will have to file a conditional use
permit and potentially a subdivision application if a portion of
the lot is to be used for another commercial use. The Planning
Commission and Council should be aware that the City has already
worked with the property owner to create a city maintained storm-
water retention pond near the railroad tracks in the rear of the
lot. This is consistent with the recommendations from the Barr
Engineering Stormwater Management Plan report. Also, because the
site is a designated wetland, the applicant will need to file for
a wetland alteration permit. Jim Leach from the Fish and
Wildlife Service has already in spected the site and has con-
curred with the city' s intention to create a stormwater pond in
the rear of the property while preserving some of the wetland
areas also. The applicant is also aware that an Army Corps of
Engineer permit is necessary. This lot is a parcel of record and
has been zoned commercial and industrial since 1972.
ATTACHMENTS
1 . Application.
1
2 . Letter from applicant.
3 . Land Use Plan.
4 . City Council minutes dated October 5 , 1987 .
5 . Planning Commission minutes dated September 9 , 1987 .
1
1
4.
LAND DEVELOPMENT APPLICATION
CITY OF CHANHASSEN
690 Coulter Drive
Chanhassen, MN 55317
I (612) 937-1900
APPLICANT:JJ( � kr-or,i r I OWNER:
IADDRESS �(-,Q i ! ar51-,0 0 Avg. ADDRESS
I Zip Code Zip Code
TELEPHONE (Daytime)., /-- �
2 7q-qS" 7 TELEPHONE
REQUEST: ��"SS�/- �0
IZoning District Change g Planned Unit Development
IZoning Appeal Sketch Plan
Preliminary Plan
Zoning Variance Final Plan
IZoning Text Amendment Subdivision Xii_
Togi_ Land U Pl Platting
I ____ Metes and Bounds
Condtional Use Permit
I it Street;Easement Vacation
Site Plan Review
Wetlands Permit
r �1 \ /'il
PROJECT NAME ��(� C').l 1 Cas i .r.e 1,_,;�;-) i f
I
PRESENT LAND USE PLAN DESIGNATION --1-'�•"-v`�-r'r'-i (')�'' �-�i-'t '
IREQUESTED LAND USE PLAN DESIGNATION LO D '''''r?rC'12`_1
PRESENT ZONING .C> H G rY/`, ��,.0 P
IREQUESTED ZONING 1i
R �
IUSES PROPOSED <'�-1--(7,t Cr,r-cL' (?.^+-?r-- (2,,y) -<- j -;-ai.;;r- ,�' ' t
SIZE OF PROPERTY .47- r ^f-) c
I
REASONS FOR THIS REQUEST r', 1 - , I- -•(
I
I
LEGAL DESCRIPTION (Attach legal if necessary) , _- '•' '`'' -,l
I
I
' C
1
City of Chanhassen
Land Development Application
Page 2 1
FILING INSTRUCTIONS : 1
This application must be completed in full and be typewritten or
clearly printed and must be accompanied by all information and 1
plans required by applicable City Ordinance provisions . Before
filing this application, you should confer with the City Planner
to determine the specific ordinance and procedural requirements
applicable to your application.
HIL
FILING CERTIFICATION: 1
The undersigned representative of the applicant hereby certifies
that he is familiar with the procedural requirements of all 1
applicable City Ordinances .
Signed By `''' /l 1
Date M/IY icir
l Applicant _
I
The undersigned hereby certifies that the applicant has been
authorized to make this application for the property herein
• described.
1
Signed By 1
Fee Owner Date
7
. ts = 3D 1
,..,--.71 it,
Date Application Received q I(z91(
g -77:7?-7-17---,
Application Fee Paid
1
City Receipt No. 4, I0
1
* This Application will be considered by 1
Board of Adjustments and Appeals Planning Commission/
meeting. AAeals at their
the Plaeir
1
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City Council Meeting - October 5, 1987
Councilman Horn: Just to expand on what Mark is saying. If we carry that to _
II3 the extreme then, what we need to do is leave this as agriculture.
Agricultural and the protection is green acres. The problem we have is there
is pressure on the people who own this property in terms of taxes and so
' forth. - That's what we're dealing with. If we use his example to keep this
open to what we can do later, we have to zone it all as agricultural to give
it green acres protection and then when the time comes move it over. What
he's telling us is an interim step won't work because you're locked in and
then you're stuck. At least that's what I'm hearing.
Mayor Hamilton: Not necessarily. I don't think you're locked in.
' Councilman Horn: We're going to create valuable pieces of property by opening
the door to these interin uses.
Mayor Hamilton: But when they come in if they know only at maximum, a 12 year
use for that piece of land, how can you be locked in any more than that?
Maybe that's not legal. I would like to ask Roger that but if somebody came
in here and said I want to use that piece of land on TH 41 and TH 5 and we
said fine, we'll give you a conditional use to use that for whatever they
might be asking and then in 12 years you have to know that use may go away.
Roger Knutson: State Statutes provide that once you issue a conditional use,
it sticks. You can't put a time limit on it so once you issue a conditional
use permit they have the right to stay there as long as they comply with the
conditions and standards and what not. Not duration.
Councilman Johnson: One thing, when we do look at this, there will be people,
' I think when we look at any individual development going in here, we have to
look at it as that might be the ultimate use of that land too because I
wouldn't mind seeing that area for a very long time as a nursery. Like Mark
' says, that's a very good use but while the intent may be that it's a temporary
use, I do believe that we have to look at it being a long term use and if it
does, if commercial or some plant wants to come in and they've got the money
' to buy him out, then that's up to them.
ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT TO AMEND ARTICLE V, SECTION 4(4) TO ALLOW GARDEN
CENTERS AS A CONDITIONAL USE IN THE RR, RURAL RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT, JAY
' KRONICK, FIRST READING.
Mayor Hamilton: This is the first reading. Jay has been before us previously
' and is back here this evening. As you all know Jay owns a business in
Washington D.C. and would locate a business here in Chanhassen. That being a
retail garden center so Barbara did you want to add some?
' Barbara Dacy: The Planning Commission action was to recommend denial of the
request based on the findings in the staff report with a note to the Council
that if you are to amend the zoning ordinance for the first reading requires a
four-fifths vote of the entire Council.
'
Mayor y r Hamilton: Jay, do you want to present anything to the Council?
19
City Council Meeting - October 5, 1987
I
Jay Kronick: Yes, thank you. I think you touched upon a lot of the issues
ii
here and I'm really not going to make the decision for you. I also have given
many of you in the past of the ideas of the type of development I'm proposing
out there. That's what I would just maybe reiterate and amplify a little
bit in conjunction with some of the points you touched on here tonight. As I
far as the waste from the site, it's a five acre site with a house on i=. A
garden center, I really can't see a problem with the impact there. It depends
on where you put that gallons per day limit. The traffic issue, I agree
there. I've had a tough time. I've sat there for the Natural Green property II'
trying to left back into town on TH 5. There's a lot of cars and sometimes
you've got to wait. Something has got to be done about that, I would agree.
I'm not a traffic ngineer but I would be willing to work on that to the extent
II
possible. I've looked at some data on traffic generated by retail garden _
centers. They base it on factors like size of the property, square feet, •
number of employees, parking spots, take all these parameters and I come up II with estimates of between 75 and 100 trips per day. That's one trip in and
one trip out. Two trips per person. I look at that and compare it to the
number of vehicles on that road at present traveling back and forth each day
and the impact seems pretty minimal to me. Nonetheless, every car that comes
II
either in or out has to cross the highway. There's something to think about
there. I have a question that was raised in your discussion about talking
about putting a limit on the number of trips per day. How is the estimate
II
made initially and what happens when the business grows? I think that's
something that that is, do I have to shut my business down at 1:00 in the
afternoon because I had my 100 trips a day and that's it. That growth is z
going to happen. As the City grows, my business is going to grow hopefully t'
regardless of where it's located so I just had a question about that. Some j
points raised in staff report that I wasn't clear. Looking at some other
jurisdictions and how they've handled this sort of thing. Staff mentioned
II
that Eden Prairie, Minnetonka, and St. Louis Park don't allow retail garden
centers in rural residential districts. Whether this district remains as such
or not in Chanhassen, I don't know but I look at Eden Prairie and the one
II
garden center of similar scale that I see is just relocated out of the
shopping center out to Eden Prairie Center. It's on a busy road but it's a
similar type of thing. Probably not the same traffic philosophy. Minnetonka
has one right smack in the middle of a residential district off of Woodland
II
Road. It's the only business around. It's surrounded by residents in 1,'4
pore of 1/2 acre parcels. St. Louis Park is another jurisdiction that was
mentioned. I don't believe a garden center exists in St. Louis Park because
II
of a combination of high commercial values as opposed to availability of
suitably sized parcels for a garden center. I guess that's really it. I
would be happy to respond to any questions.
Councilman Johnson: I just have mostly general comments on item 1(d). II
don't have a specific question for anybody. As you can probably tell from my
earlier comments, I'm in favor of this particular use at this particular spot
II
but as I read through the Planning Commission and I believe Commissioner
Emmings was the one that probably swayed me the most of anybody there.
Several things he said I have to agree with. I really don't like to see it
L!!in the RR district. I don't really think the area should be RR but that's
til
what we discussed a minute ago. I think for what he's selling and what he's
doing is best suited in this area. Some people were talking about moving it
20
II
•
City Council Meeting - October 5, 1987
II
downtown. I personally, with the price of property and the profit on margin
II
probably wouldn't be affordable in downtown. I think it would be a very good
addition to Chanhassen. I think we would draw people in here at various times
of the year and help our other businesses out considerably with this use. The
' Planning Commission, they did say they do not have to be practical because
they are a body considering the broad view. I think the Council has to be
practical but at the same time we have to avoid what Commissioner Emmings
referred to as the tyranny of small decisions. I loved that one. That's a
' good one because that's what we look at all the time. I like the way he put
that in. Exactly what Barb was saying a little while ago. We let this in,
the next one, the next one, the next one continuing until we say we are no
' longer wide open. There is no restriction. I do plan on voting against this
unless somebody can convince•me that we have adequate safeguards added to the
conditions of use. That we won't find garden centers all over our RR area.-
' Councilman Geving: I thought about this a long time because I've been
involved with the David Luse situation for about 7 or 8 years. I really would
like to have Jay come to our community and build a facility here and build a
' business in Chanhassen and I think that the business that's there now is
certainly good use for that land at this time. As long as it remains a
nursery, it certainly could stay there as a wholesale activity. That property
is changing hands obviously and with that comes a new owner and some new
thoughts. My feeling is that we're infringing on the residential area and I
believe that the rural residential area should be kept clean of retail
activity. Retail activity should be focused in the .downtown area. If Jay
II '-. wanted to grow his plants, his potted plans, his trees and bring them onto the
site out there and grow them on the 5 acres that he has, I see nothing wrong
with that as a good interim use and then transport those to a downtown
location for retail sales I think would work but as far as the traffic on
TH 5, it's not going to get any better. There is absolutely no signs that
we're going to get TH 5 to four lanes certainly within the next 3 years. The
' traffic is going to be compounding and that is one issue. The primary issue
I think here is that we would be opening ourselves up to developing a lot of
other areas in Chanhassen with potential for retail in the rural residential
areas. I'm just afraid that once that avalanche started, it would be a
' snowball that we wouldn't be able to stop. It would really start to roll and
once we make the first decision, the second ones become easier because you've
set the precedent. I'm very much in favor of what you're trying to do Jay and
I wish that that facility was in the MUSA line. You could develop it and the
highway wasn't as congested as it is but I just can't see putting another 35
cars, 100 trips per day, whatever the estimate might be, turning in and out of
that facility. We probably have it now more than likely with David Luse's
' operation we have at least as much as what you're proposing. There's no
question about it but I look at this way. Now we have an opportunity to
reduce the congestion by moving Luse out of there on his own volition and
' maybe that will reduce some of the traffic that we have. I guess at this time
I would have to vote to keep the amendment we're passing and I would vote
against your proposal to put retail in the rural residential area.
Councilman Horn: I understand the issue of changing the complexion of rural
residential and I'm sympathetic to that issue but that's not the overriding
factor for me in this case. The overriding factor for me is traffic. I would
I
21
City Council Meeting - October 5, 1987 ,
be much more open to this type of thing, even if it weren't in a downtown
commercial area, if it were not on TH 5. If it was on one of the off
highways. I think there we would have an opportunity to have a real tough
decision but as long as it is on TH 5, I think the traffic is just totally
unreasonable. Even if we don't make it worse than what it is now with the
Luse operation there, I drive past his operation every morning and watc : him
try to merge his trucks into the traffic and it's scary to watch let me tell
you. And it's one thing I think if you have a wholesale operation where
you're subjecting your employees to that. What we'd be doing in retail is
say, this is okay for the general public and I have a real problem with that.
Councilman Boyt: It sounds as though it's a forgone conclusion how this is '
going to go since it takes a four-fifths vote. I think that one question I
have and I think I may have gathered the answer out of the Minutes but I want
to clarify, is there anyplace in Chanhassen currently as it is zoned where a
retail garden center can be located?
Barbara Dacy: The BG, Business General district does allow garden centers as
a permitted use. I believe the applicant is also looking at a site along TH 5
that would require a zoning ordinance amendment to the Business Highway
District... The only lands that are zoned BG are the Burdick property and the
James property. i
Councilman Boyt: Alright. I don't know how your development fits as far as
consistency with what Mr. James or Mr. Burdick has planned for their property.
I would suggest that a garden center can stand the toll of paying a rather
substantial amount of money since we see them surviving in Minnetonka on TH 7
which is certainly a very valuable piece of property. I think there clearly
is a need in Chanhassen. I heard the other council members saying that.
We're approving new developments very quickly. They all want to plant
something and right now that money is leaving town so I think you have a good
possibility. I would support what I saw Mayor Hamilton suggesting as a
possibility when he was speaking to the Planning Commission. i think a number
of us were saying, please grow your trees there if you like. That seems to
fit very nicely with what we'd like to see happening on that piece of property
but I don't think we're going to support running a retail business out of that
particular location. I'm impressed by your desire to be here and your
willingness to fly in to talk to us.
Mayor Hamilton: I think I've made many comments to the Planning Commis
mostly because Jay was unable to be here and I've worked with 9 n
Jay a little bit
trying to get him into town and I guess I'm not convinced yet that we
shouldn't have a retail operation on TH 5. I just don't think that the
traffic to be generated would be of sufficient amount to cause a real hazard
there. Like Clark says, there's an awful lot of traffic there right now with
Natural Green and I don't think Jay's operation would generate a whole lot
more but in talking to Jay I think it's been suggested that his retail
operation would probably be more profitable in the short term and hopefully in
the long term if he located downtown in the central business district. It's
certainly one of the things we want to have you accomplish, if you come here,
is to be successful. That's the number one thing. That you want to be here
and stay here a long time. We'd like you to stay here a Long time. I know
ell
22
r CI
City Council Meeting - October 5, 1987
—
it's disappointing to not, because you had your heart set on living and
I 1 growing and selling all in the same area but it looks like that's not going to
be the case.
' Councilman Geving moved, Councilman Horn seconded to deny the Zoning Ordinance
Amendment to amend Article V, Section 4(4) to allow Garden Centers as a retail
business as a conditional use in the RR, Rural Residential District. All
' voted in favor excpet Mayor Hamilton who opposed the motion and the motion
carried.
Mayor Hamilton: I just wanted to clarify. that so that Jay would know and I
think we've all said that we would allow you to live and grow on this site if
I'm hearing all the rest of the council members correctly. That would be an
allowable use but have your retail someplace else.
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT REQUEST TO INSTALL A 33 FOOT AMATEUR RADIO TOWER AND A
' 26 FOOT VERTICAL ANTENNA, 7071 SHAWNEE LANE, ROY S. BARKE.
Mayor Hamilton: We have no control over this so I don't know why it's even on
' the agenda. Is there anybody from the neighborhood who wanted to speak on
this item? No.
Councilman Boyt: As I understand the FCC regulation it says that a person has
II a right to put an antenna up. Mr. Barke has an antenna up so I think from
there, in terms of the number of antennas an individual has the right to put
up, I don't see that the FCC addresses that. Now maybe Mr. Barke can
' enlighten me about that.
Roy Barke: I don't know if there are any restrictions based on the number. I
do think there is a desire on their part to conform monitor to conform with
' the community while at the same time topography so I guess I can't disagree
with that at all. ...before the Planning Commission is that a lot of times
you can't do everything to the point where... It does take a little bit of
variety to do one thing or another. Like the people who buy boats. They may
buy a speed boat and fishing boat.
- Councilman Boyt: Mr. Barke as I understood your comments in the Planning
Commission, they were along the lines that this is primarily a means of
convenience. Your new tower could be adjusted to handle what your existing
towers are doing. Is that correct?
' Roy Barke: No. My existing tower is.-I really can't add this same device to
it.
Councilman Boyt: You indicated in the Planning Commission that you would be
willing to provide a, I think it was a $3.00 filter to your neighbors who had
problems with interference.
'° Roy Barke: I have no problem with that. Just like I stated in the meeting,
it's sometimes very difficult to be sitting outside and working with my
neighbors if you have a problem, work out that thing. That type of
23
Planning Commission Meeting
September 9 , 1987 - Page 15 '
close and as Bob said there's some massaging that has to be done. I would
like to see some creative thinking on TH 5 when we get to it. Classically II
it can be the strip type stuff that we see in all the other communities and
I guess I would like to see if there's anything creative we can do along
that roadway but I don't even know what that means. It just means we have II
an opportunity of several years to think about it and maybe there is
something that we can do that's creative along the highway. With that, why
don't we bounce back to the public hearing and talk about the zoning
ordinance amendment to amend Article 5, Section 4 allowing garden centers as
a conditional use in the rural residential district.
PUBLIC HEARING:
ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT TO AMEND ARTICLE V, SECTION 4(4) TO ALLOW GARDEN
CENTERS AS A CONDITIONAL USE IN THE RR, RURAL RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT, JAY
KRONICK. '
Public Present:
Name '
Tom Hamilton
Barbara Dacy presented the staff report on the zoning ordinance amendment .
1
Tom Hamilton: Let me change hats here and I'll represent Jay Kronick. I
wasn't asked to represent him and I don't officially represent him in any
official capacity but as a licensed realtor I have talked with Jay on
several occasions about the project that he is attempting to accomplish here
and you are reviewing this evening. The current Natural Green is going to
be moving to Chaska I believe. He needs more space so he, Dave Luse was the
owner of that property, was contacted by Jay Kronick and Jay who currently
lives in Baltimore, Maryland and owns a restaurant in Washington D.C. and
that's why he wasn't able to be here this evening. His background is in II forestry and agriculture. He would like to open a garden center. His wife
is from Minnesota and that's the whole background thing why he's looking in
Chanhassen. Somehow he came across Dave Luse and the two of them got
together and discussed Dave's leaving and Jay wanting to open a garden
center here so the two of them together, without anyone's interference
apparently reached some kind of an agreement on purchasing the property.
It's all contingent on the Metropolitan Waste Commission paying off Luse for II
the right-of-way I guess for the easement across his property for the Lake
Ann Interceptor. So Jay would like very much to have a garden center in
Chanhassen and he felt that would be a great opportunity for him to purchase II
that property. It would be about 5 acres is about what he needs. He would
grow his material on the property and he would also live on the property.
There is the old home there that has been used as an office for several
years and he would like to convert that to a home and have his family live
there. He does however have some alternatives. This isn't a do or die
situation for him. He can live someplace else. If he can't have that as a
s
II ' _
Planning Commission Meeting
September 9 , 1987 - Page 16
I retail center, he may still purchase it and do his growing there if that's
something that the Planning Commission and Council would approve and then
have his retail outlet someplace else in the community. He may also just
attempt to do his growing there or wherever he can find a place to do it and
' live someplace else so he has several alternatives available to him. I just
wanted to present that to you and tell you why Jay couldn't be here this
evening . I think he would appreciate your consideration on those points .
Wildermuth moved, Siegel seconded to close public hearing. All voted in
favor and motion carried .
•
' Headla: I wonder what the alternatives are if Natural Green moves. What's
really going to happen to that place? I don' t know. What can go in there?
' Wildermuth : Nothing can happen to it unless we change. . .
Dacy: The uses that are listed in the RR District, single family,
' agricultural and the conditional uses potentially so basically that limits
it to residential or agricultural use unless we would have a request for a
conditional use permit .
Conrad : You've got to answer in your mind if you want retail in some form
in that area. So far we've kept retail, other than small scale sales, out
of that zone so I think that's your question. The zone is there. The use
as it is right now follows it can be used as a wholesale nursery or going
back to the primary zone. I think you've got to answer whether you want to
start modifying.
Headla: Personally I would like to see it go in but I'm having a hard time
putting retail in the area with what' s going on.
' Wildermuth: Without the urban services, is that right? No urban services.
I guess I would be inclined to make an exception because of the fact that,
as you said Barbara, the intensity or the use intensity is not very great.
It's not going to make a very big demand on the septic system for example.
The fact that there isn't a sewer out there is not going to present a real
problem right?
Dacy: No and there could be very little demand as far as septic systems on
the sewer.
' Wildermuth: High well water demand no doubt .
Dacy: The problem is we're referring to a specific use. He's proposing a
very small facility. Staff's concern is that unless you really identify in
10 conditions, the extent to limit how much a garden center could operate,
we're concerned that we could get a large intensity retail outfit in the
rural district area which could pose conflicts . . .
' Wildermuth: Even if that development were a Frank's style operation, I
don' t see where that would be a problem would it?
i'
1
Planning Commission Meeting
September 9, 1987 - Page 17 '
Dacy: Staff's analysis is based on the proposed use in relation to the
district uses. If you feel that a Frank's nursery can co-exist with single I
family development then that's fine. We're just having problems from the
standpoint that those are completely two different types of uses. Retail
versus single family development. Another potential with the zoning
ordinance amendment, you're sending out conflicting messages of what a RR
district should be. Does that answer your question?
Conrad: Just remember Jim when you get into retail sales, that's a
different animal than wholesale. You're talking about night time hours.
You're talking about weekend traffic. You're talking traffic issues. I
You're also talking what's the difference in this retail versus that retail.
There's no difference between selling a potted plant and selling a skirt.
There's no difference.
Wildermuth: It's the way that I look at this. I would see that area
probably either as high density or a commercial piece anyway ultimately.
Here we go violating what we've just said. It would be a hard and fast rule I
about urban services.
Conrad: I think if you can identify a scope, retail sales under $10,000.00.
Traffic under 4 cars a day or 100 cars a day, whatever it might be because
my problem is, there is no difference between that retail and another retail
so whatever you do here will sort of set us up for other retail in this
district which is okay if we want other retail in that district. '
Siegel: It's too bad we haven't proceeded with the previous subject to the
point where we know what we're going to do along TH 5. I hesitate to see a I
wig shop with 5 acre minimum lot size. Everything in perspective. We have
done other exceptions in other areas where we've made conditional use
permits available and I think we can make it restrictive enough. It's too
bad we can't get this downtown. If we could force them out of that location
and put them into one of those nice spots downtown that is still vacant. It
would probably be a better draw for him and a better draw for Chanhassen
downtown although that isn't that far away from downtown and I see that
there is a possibility that that is going to end up being commercial in a
short time. I don't have any problem with this garden center concept as
long as we put the appropriate conditions on it and I don't think I'm being II
contradictory.
Conrad : Does that mean you don' t mind retail in this district?
Siegel: That's what I said before when we talked about zoning and then the
possibility that we're going to have to look at doing that. As long as it's
planned properly and the appropriate requirements are put on the applicants, II
I don't have any problem with it. For one thing I don't judge retail
establishments like you do that they're all one and the same. There's a
wide variety of retail establishments. If you call a car dealership a
retail establishment, it's not a barber shop. It's not the same. There are II
categories of retail that I look at being different.
c .
I .
Planning Commission Meeting
' September 9, 1987 - Page 18
Conrad: Garden center is one?
'
Siegel:g I don't have a big problem with this from it's use or aesthetic,
' being in this area and especially with what ' s happening all around that.
Emmings: I'm going to take the position here that we ought to keep retail
completely out of the RR. Again, we're the Planning Commission. We have no
' obligation to be practical. We don't have to, we could ignore the fact that
there are 40 million trees growing out there right now and it looks like a
retail nursery. Just like last week and I think that's what we should do.
' I think we should look at that piece of ground like, we should ignore the
present use of it because when you look at the present use of it, it's just
a tiny step. It seems so reasonable. I think I told the guy when he was
here that it seemed like such an easy, natural thing to do but I think
' that's very dangerous for us at least. If the City Council wants to make an
exception here, maybe that's fine but I think if we don't stick to our guns
on the new zoning ordinance. There's a process called the tyranny of small
' decisions where you make these natural, easy steps and one day you're over
here and by god the next day you're way the hell over here and you don't
know how you got there and I think we ought to hold the line. The retail,
' when you read the RR, you look at the intent statement, it's single family
residential subdivisions intended for large lot development. That's the
intent of the RR. That certainly does not contemplate commercial uses and
when you read down the permitted uses, the accessory uses and the
' conditional uses, none of them are commercial like this would be. We also
just got done talking about what the development on TH 5 is going to be and
said we shouldn't have urban scale development out there until we've got
' those services and I think we ought to stay true to that principal too. I
don't think we ought to violate that because it is commercial and although
it's less intensive than a lot of other commercial or retail thinks might
' be, you're going to have a hard time making that distinction I think to a
developer who comes in once we've opened the door. That's going to be a
very difficult distinction to draw. There are going to arguments on each
side are going to be of equal weight and we're going to lose ground that
' way. If they can make an argument that's as good as the one we can make,
we're going to lose so I guess I'm really persuaded by what staff has come
up with here. The language and the intent under the RR doesn't allow this.
' As a footnote though, we're talking about putting a frontage road all along
TH 5 down to TH 41 and if that was there, I would have no trouble with this
there at all but I think that's a long ways off and for now, as a growth
policy, I think we should not have commercial in the RR.
' Conrad: I agree with Steve and I agree with Staff. I think my biggest
concern is opening up the door to retail in a residential area and I don't
' know how to control it if we did do this one. I think philosophically I
agree with the intent of the agree as it is right now and I agree that
retail should have the urban services so unless there are other things,
' questions .
Tom Hamilton: I'm not going to speak on Jay's behalf because I don't think
it's fair for me to be trying to speak for him when he hasn't even asked me
. 1
Planning Commission Meeting
September 9 , 1987 - Page 21
Emmings: We need a garden center here very badly. We told him that when he
was here. Now a couple of us said we're always driving way into Minneapolis I
for garden materials and stuff like that and we would love to have one here
so I think he knows that and if he doesn't, I'm saying so now. I think it
would be nice if he could have that as his growing range and have a shop in e '
town in the commercial downtown area. That would be great.
CONSIDER MODIFICATION TO ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT PLAN AND TAX
INCREMENT FINANCING PLAN (DISTRICT NO. 2) .
• t 'Barbara Dacy presented the staff report on this item.
Conrad: I just had trouble following what we're talking about. Not in
terms of the concept but in terms of what land is now being added. I
couldn' t track it.
Dacy: The land within the downtown area is in our redevelopment district.
The land that's in that little cut-out into Eden Prairie and Hennepin
County, that's an Economic Development District. Both districts have tax
increment districts within them that the City is receiving property taxes
from those lands. At this point in time we can use those for public
improvement projects so now basically what we're going to do is overlap the
districts. Bring them together so that we can spend the money that's being
4. generated in economic development district in the downtown area. Because of
the amount of redevelopment and the amount commitments that we have in the
downtown area, in essence we're running out of funds so we can avoid a major
bond issue. Where the economic development district is very healthy with I
the Press and CPT and development that is occuring and the development that I
will occur now that Mr. Beddor has subdivided all his land at the Press so
we can use those monies for projects.
Emmings: My brain died when I tried to read this. It was paralyzing to me
but it sounds like a good idea the way Barbara explains it so I'm certainly
all for it. We don't want to give our money to Hennepin County or anybody
else. Might as well spend it here so that ' s the bottom line I guess .
Siegel : I guess I'm not really clear of why the Planning Commission is
being asked to adopt a resolution. There must have been some reason for us
to do this .
Dacy: State Statute requires that the local Planning Commission and
planning agency review any redevelopment plans for consistency with the
Comprehensive Plan and other documents. To be honest, a resolution adopted
by the Commission was a new item brought to be my attention. However , it is
one of those things that should be done.
Siegel: I'm just wondering why we're acting on this after the City Council
has already acted .
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