3. TH 101 Configuration with TH 5 Submittal to MNDOT I 4 ' 3
CITY OF
I -
\''
^ '`J CHANHASSEN
'" 690 COULTER DRIVE • P.O. BOX 147 • CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
.` � (612) 937-1900
i . tJ _t-; 1-,o,,.
MEMORANDUM
IITO: Don Ashworth, City Manager ' � ``°' �'
f�h_ sate a .; rd to C:mii,ass on
uFROM: Gary Warren, City Engineer V '
DATE: January 19 , 1989
I SUBJ: Approve Trunk Highway 101 Intersection Configurations with
Trunk Highway 5; Authorize Submittal to MnDOT
File No. 88-22
I
At the November 28 , 1988 City Council meeting, the revised Trunk
I Highway 101 configuration was approved by the City Council with
the request that a closer look be taken at the specific intersec-
tion configurations at the intersections of Dakota Avenue, Great
Plains Boulevard and Market Boulevard to address the concerns of
I the business community as it relates to laneage and median cuts .
Much discussion has transgressed with interested/affected par-
ties. A workshop session was held January 19 , 1989 . A draft of
I the attached intersection configurations has been submitted to
MnDOT for their concurrent review. The attached memorandum from
Howard Preston of BRW summarizes the details and changes as it
I relates to these intersections.
The preparation of the Trunk Highway 5 improvement plans by MnDOT
has continued and the integration of these intersection con-
s figurations is obviously an important element of their plan pre-
paration. I believe, as stated in the attached memorandum from
Mr. Preston, that these interchanges reflect the best engineering
I judgement in providing a safe and functional interchange at these
locations as well as allowing median cuts for business access .
Staff and Mr. Preston will be happy to review these concepts and
answer any further questions which may arise.
IIt is therefore recommended that the attached interchanges for
Dakota Avenue, Great Plains Boulevard and Market Boulevard with
I Trunk Highway 5 be approved for submittal to MnDOT for inclusion
in their Trunk Highway 5 improvement plans.
Attachments
I
1 . City Council minutes dated November 28 , 1988 .
2 . Memo from Howard Preston dated January 18 , 1989 .
I3 . Intersection maps.
I
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City Council Meeting - November 28, 1988 lbI
1
Councilman Boyt: Well, it's not having an open mind.
Mayor Hamilton: You've got that right. You're consistent anyway. I
Councilman Johnson: I go right along with Bill on this and because of all the
work we did and because they sat up there and agreed to these conditions, for
than to come back and take a side door to come back in...
Mayor Hamilton: I don't think they willingly agreed. When you've got a gun to
a guy's head, he's probably going to agree to do most anything. They want to
get under construction. I think if you go back and review the Minutes and see
the things that were said, you'll find out that it wasn't willingly that they
agreed to all these conditions. That want to get started. All they're asking
for is to review than again. They may even have some more information they want
to present to the Council. That's all they're asking for.
Councilman Johnson: There is some aspects as to whether they're complying with
the conditions in the first place as to whether the construction that they've
started...
Mayor Hamilton: That has nothing to do with what I'm asking for. I am asking
the Council to reconsider the conditions and I'm moving and there's a second.
I_J Mayor Hamilton moved, Councilman Geving seconded to reconsider the conditions of
approval for SuperAmerica located at TH 41 and TH 7 at the December 12, 1988
meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
APPROVE MNDOT CONCEPT PLAN LAYOUT, TH 5. I
Gary Warren: This is our layout 1B. I've got it up on the wall here for
anybody who didn't notice it. Submitted to MnDot. It's similar to the previous 1
plan that we had which went from the County line to the east. This picks it up
at the County line and takes us up basically to Lake Ann Park. This is layout
approval for their layout. The next step then is this goes into their design
process which Barton Aschmann is doing the design on. Evan Green and Carl
Hoffsted are here from MnDot in case there are any comments. I guess depending
on the Council's preference here, Howard Preston is here. Howard did a lot of
the review for us on the intersection. The mainline issues we have no problem
with. I guess it's pretty straight forward as far as the two lanes, two lanes
in each direction. We did take a look at, because of the background that we
have from our feasibility study, at the intersection of Dakota Avenue with TH 5,
Great Plains and then Market Blvd. because we're concerned that we had the
proper movements provided for in MnDot's plan so Howard has spend quite a bit of
time doing the look at the ultimate 2005 concept out there and those are the
sections that were provided in your documents. We also noted, since
anticipating 1990 construction, in order for MnDot to buy into the interchange
confirguations, they're obviously going to be interested to see what the 1990
traffic forecasting so there is a justified need for some additional forecasting
to solidify for MnDot's benefit, the actual drainage that will be a part of
those intersections so we'll also address that in this report. If you'd like
Howard to go in more details on this. I
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City Council Meeting - November 28, 1988
Councilman Johnson: I'd like to ask one question just to start off. You're
II talking $5,000.00 or $6,000.00 for a 1990 forecast. Is that just the year 1990
[-
or is that the time period between 1990 and 2005? Like 95, 98. The 1990's
really is close on the future.
' Gary Warren: What we're trying to do is get, we know what the ultimate
configuration is. What we don't know is, right now we think...so this would be
1990 or as best as we could get what the utilization of the system would be.
' Councilman Johnson: I would think that you wouldn't want to build it exactly
for 1990 and in 1992 that it would fail.
' Gary Warren: No, no. The approach would be to acquire the total right-of-way
for the ultimate section. To put in an interim median or whatever, to take up
the space that you don't need until whatever point in the future you modify the
median to get the additional lanes in.
Councilman Johnson: But are you saying that that wider median would be designed
for the year 1990 or would it be designed for. Okay, I see same shaking heads.
Howard Preston: Part of the reason for doing this 1990 forecast is, we have a
handle on what the traffic volumes will be for 2005. Mr. Benshoof and his firm
' did those numbers and we use those for our design. And we had recommended
designs to accommodate the full build-up that's implied with those numbers. One
of the questions that has come up is, the intersection of Great Plains Blvd. and
TH 5 is signalized now and MnDot assumes it will be signalized in the future.
Dakota and TH 5 is signalized now and assumes it will be in the future. TH 101,
the north leg and West 78th Street is not signalized. TH 5 and Market is not
signalized. TH 101, the south leg and Lake Drive intersections are not
signalized. What we have to do is signal warrant analysis and we have to base
that on the volumes that will be there when the roadway opens up so that's the
1990 timeframe. We have to do some kind of analysis that says, what will
realigning TH 101 do to the transportation system if
y you take away all
additional development that is included in the year 2005 traffic volumes? We
don't want to warrant signals, traffic signals at these intersections based on
volumes that are going to occur in the year 2005. We have to look at the
timeframe when the construction will be completed so that's part of the reason
for the 1990 volumes. The other reason would be to determine whether or not
there are some interim solutions that will work in the short term but allow us
' to build with the outside curb lines to accommodate the future need so that's
the rationale for that additional forecast.
' Councilman Johnson: Can any of that be economically extended up into looking at
some of our West 78th Street like Laredo intersection and what kind of traffic
signals or whatever should be down here? This seems to be a problem
intersection too. I don't know if you need a number generated would be useful,
I the trips per day running through downtown that go down there would be of any
but I've heard a lot of complaints on Laredo for one as to whether it should be
4-way stopped or signalized.
1 Gary Warren: I think with any intersection, the study could be expanded and for
additional costs you can look at those. There may be some base information that
Iwould lay there as far as trip generations but I think at this point, if you
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City Council Meeting - November 28, 1988
want to look at that, that should be a separate issue. At this point we should
address specifically this concept.
Howard Preston: It...the process too because at Laredo you have... '
Councilman Johnson: I was just looking to save a few bucks on looking at this
Laredo lane. '
Councilman Horn: But you wouldn't get an accurate account when you get TH 101.
It's going to be meaningless at this point. '
Councilman Johnson: But we still have a problem.
Mayor Hamilton: Are we concerned only about TH 5? I guess I'm a little '
confused why we've got Great Plains and Dakota intersections indicating TH 101
still being used on Great Plains when we've got other plans for TH 101. It
doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense to me.
Gary Warren: These layouts do reflect the ultimate 2A process.
Councilman Horn: Then why does it say TH 101 realignment and show Great Plains '
Blvd.? That's exactly the question I had. If that's really the case, why do
you need two left turn lanes off of Great Plains if that doesn't accomodate TH
101?
IL: Gary Warren: Southbound?
Councilman Horn: Northbound.
Mayor Hamilton: This whole thing, the schematic for the TH 101 realignment
leaves a lot to be desired based on what other things we're attempting to find.
Especially when you start talking about putting those barriers in there.
There's been many comments made by some of the property owners and I strongly
agree with them. We attempt to attract business to our town and then we make it
impossible to get to them. I'd like to know the rationale for that.
Gary Warren: The southbound TH 101, maybe I could address first. With the
request to have a median cut at West 79th Street, which has been the interest of
Amoco and the rest of the business community down there, in order to provide
enough roam for stacking of vehicles, that's why we expanded the section at TH 5
was necessary. That's why all the lanes basically, you're almost building a
mini parking lot so that you don't have stacking vehicles into that West 79th
Street intersection which would prevent people from cutting through the median.
Mayor Hamilton: This is proposed to be done by 1990? This intersection doesn't
fail now I don't think.
Gary Warren: If you recall MnDot's plan was to have a median going all the way '
north to the railroad tracks.
Mayor Hamilton: That doesn't mean that they're right either. 11 Councilman Johnson: But unless we can do the study to prove them wrong and
prove that this will work, than all they're going to get is a median running all
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IF2 7(Oty Council Meeting - November 28, 1988
the way up.
Mayor Hamilton: If it's not a State road, it doesn't make a damn bit of
' difference.
Councilman Johnson: It still is a State road.
Mayor Hamilton: i just said if it's not and TH 101 does not go down there, it
doesn't make much difference what the State wants to do. We can do whatever we
want.
Gary Warren: I think our traffic generation on our intersection, we want to be
reasonable and consistent on how we apply some of this forecasting also. I
think the concept that's provided here does show that there is an alternative to
provide a safe median cut there but you do have to add some language to do that.
' Mayor Hamilton: If this is supposed to be a preliminary, we're trying to
approve a preliminary layout for approval of this intersection, there's no way I
can go along with this. The intersection of TH 101 and Great Plains, there's no
way I would ever approve that. I will not vote for it.
rHoward Preston: Service to the south side or the north side?
' Mayor Hamilton: Both sides. I don't think it's a good plan for either side.
Councilman Geving: How did those barriers get in there? That's the first time
I've seen this. The comment was made, well we'll just move the traffic from the
Legion around to the south side. That's not as easy as you think. You'd force
a lot of U turns for one thing down there in front of that Hidden Valley. I
don't know. I agree with Tom. There's 6 lanes there now. We only have 2
today.
Howard Preston: This is predicated on 2005 figures.
Councilman Geving: But you've got businesses that you're impacting.
Mayor Hamilton: That makes it even worse.
' Councilman Horn: Plus, how does that compare with Market which is
really
to be TH 101 and an even busier intersection. It doesn't look like you've eggotg
' as many lanes on that that you've got here.
Howard Preston: Market did not have the constraints of trying to store vehicles
for a specified distance. I don't know if Gary mentioned that but for example
' on the north side of Great Plains, in order to get the median opening for West
79th Street, the theory is or the concept is that all of the vehicles that will
be stacked up from the signal would be stored, the end of the que of the
' vehicles would be south of West 79th Street so the idea is that anybody who
would want to come north and turn left onto West 79th Street would not have to
turn through 2 lanes of vehicles that are stopped for the signal at TH 5.
' That's a dangerous condition so we did calculations that based on the number of
lanes and the number of vehicles and the signal timing that we would anticipate
at TH 5, where the end of the que of the vehicles would be. In order to
accommodate or provide this median opening for the left turn, I had said it was
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City Council Meeting - November 28, 1988 4 7 1 1
a given that that end of the que had to be south of the West 79th Street ,
Ir- intersection so there would be no vehicles standing through that intersection to
block that left turn. So given that assumption, it required 4 lanes southbound
in order to store up all of those vehicles in that specified distance. '
Mayor Hamilton: Are you taking into consideration where West 79th Street is
going to join into Market Blvd. and Market into TH 5? I don't think, my opinion
is, people coming down and going west on TH 5 are not going to turn off on Great
Plains. They can go down to 79th and then there if that's a full intersection.
This intersection is not going to be as busy as I think you're indicating on
here. It's going to be much easier to just keep going down to Market and turn
in and go right onto 79th Street.
Howard Preston: What we used is the design volumes that Mr. Benshoof generated. '
I was given those and we used those volumes as our design volumes when we
designed these intersections for.
Councilman Horn: That was with the 2 lanes. ,
Howard Preston: Yes sir, that's correct. He had the system in his model that
was the 2 way so it had all the intersections at those locations and all the
connections that we're talking about. What it still indicated was because Great
Plains Blvd. is the closest access to your downtown area and there is a lot of
development expected or redevelopment of your downtown area, the traffic volumes
at this intersection remain very high. All of the traffic did not go away
because the TH 101 designation is moved. There was still a great deal of
traffic being generated into the downtown area and this intersection was the
primary focal point for that traffic.
Mayor Hamilton: I'm sure there will always be a lot of traffic there but I
still can't agree with putting up barriers to cut traffic off from trying to get
to businesses. That doesn't work.
Councilman Horn: What you've done north is an improvement over the original
proposal which included the barrier in front of 79th so that's definitely an
improvement. My concern is still south. What's going to happen is exactly what
Dale said. They're going to come south, make a U turn around there and come
back to the Legion. Is that taken into account in your plan? Is the theory
that you're going to set a cop there all day and make sure they can't do that?
Howard Preston: The concept on the south side was, the analysis, the analytical
process we went through is similar to the one we went through on the north side
and that is, we took the traffic volumes that came from the Benshoof forecasts.
We put it through this queing analysis to find out where the end of these que of
vehicles that go in the left turn lane to the through lanes would be. The fact
of the matter is, it comes all the way down to the very south side of the Legion
property. So it would not be possible to provide a left turn lane into the
Legion property without having these vehicles having to turn through a line of
standing vehicles. I consider that to be dangerous. We couldn't recommend that
so therefore that's the reason the design has resulted as shown on the figure.
It would be possible, in my opinion, if we buy into the traffic volumes and the
traffic forecasts, to provide a left turn into the Legion property that would be
safe because it would have to turn through a line of standing vehicles during
peak periods of the day. '
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II, City Council Meeting - November 28, 1988
Councilman Johnson: That's at 2005?
II
[-
Howard Preston: That's in 2005. That is correct.
Gary Warren: That recognizes current land use also. He plugged in the
' Rosemount as a part of that site for example and recognizing a substantial
development potential, residential that we have with the Chanhassen Hills has
several additions to go. Lake Susan Hills West.
Mayor Hamilton: Then they ought to redo it and plug in the new TH 101
configuration.
' Councilman Horn: It supposedly is.
Howard Preston: That is in there.
' Councilman Geving: How about the Wards? Did you plug it in for the potential
Ward's development in that corner?
' Councilman Horn: So all of Rosemount is going to come up to this intersection?
' Mayor Hamilton: Or they're going to go west.
Councilman Johnson: Most of them will go to Market.
' Gary Warren: You will go to Lake Drive connecting in.
Councilman Horn: But this goes nowhere. All you're going to get out of here is
' people in this housing development down here. That's my question. Where are
the people going to come from from the south? Just from this housing
development.
' Howard Preston: There is commercial property that's along Lake Drive that is
not yet developed. There's the shopping center, the legion club. I didn't do
the forecasting so I don't know how their zones worked out. I believe there's
' also some commercial property just west of Great Plains Blvd. and south of TH 5
so there's more that's undeveloped commercial property there so there is other
commrecial property in the area that's feeding that intersection.
Councilman Horn: It has to drop down from TH 5 east, pick this up and then
come back in order to continue west. That's the only thing that would make this
kind of volume. That looks like a real problem to me because people are just
' going to come down to make U turns on this. That's all they're going to
accomplish.
' Howard Preston: Either that or I guess one option would be for them to get onto
Lake Drive at Dakota and cane from the east if that's where they're coming. If
they're coming from the east, instead of making a left turn at Great Plains,
make it at Dakota, come along Lake Drive and make the right turn to get up to
the Legion instead of making the left turn and U turn.
Councilman Horn: But if they're coming from the north or the west, they're not
going to do that.
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City Council Meeting - November 28, 1988 II
I
Howard Preston: That's correct.
Councilman Geving: And the bulk of our population is to the north and to the '
west.
Councilman Johnson: Coming down Great Plains Blvd. trying to get to the Legion. '
Councilman Geving: I bet if you did a study of all the Legion club members for
example, you'd find that nearly all of them would be coming from the north. '
80%.
Howard Preston: There are a couple of problems with making this left turn off
of southbound TH 101 into the Legion property. The first one is what I
mentioned, the problem with the queing of the northbound lane and these vehicles
having to turn through that line of vehicles. The second one would be, if you
really wanted to accommodate that, it would not be safe to allow the left turn
on the through lane. You'd have to make it out of the left turn lane which
would then move the through lanes over to the west 12 feet. And if you do that
south of TH 5, you also have to do that north of TH 5 in order to get those
lanes to line up and we were running into right-of-way problems already with the
width of the road north of TH 5. I can't tell you it wouldn't be possible to
do. I'm suggesting that there are implications that may extend even north of
the TH 5.
Councilman Geving: Did you move that entrance to the Legion Club as far south on
their property? Right on the property line? I
Howard Preston: Yes. I checked with Gary and we moved it to within what's
shown here. I believe it's 10 feet of the property because that's typical for a
setback.
Councilman Geving: There's a little hill there now.
Howard Preston: We've moved it as far south as possible.
Councilman Horn: ...proposal where you cut those. As I understand it, south on
Great Plains you're cutting both the Legion access and this next driveway off in
the first proposal.
Howard Preston: That was the State's suggestion. The right-in/right-outs. '
Councilman Horn: This is obviously better than that but still an inconvenience
to the Legion however. '
Gary Warren: There is no median shown on the south side. It is on MnDot's plan
and I guess maybe they could address from their study the actual need for that
median. Carl Hoffsted and Evan Green from MnDot.
Carl Hoffsted: I'm Carl Hoffsted with the Minnesota Department of
Transportation, Mayor and the Council. I might be giving more of a little bit
of a status report here in relation to TH 5 and than the Great Plains Blvd.
intersection. The layout that you have seen on the wall is MnDot's layout and
we developed that about, started it prior to having final alternative selected I
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City Council Meeting - November 28, 1988
for the TH 101 rerouting proposals. We did include flap A there. That is
consistent with Alternative 2A to show a full intersection at Market Blvd.. We
II did not do anything with the Great Plains Blvd. intersection because there just
[-
wasn't time available to take a closer look at that. We have yet to have a
chance to look at the proposals being presented by BRW in the memorandum and we
would like to be able to work with the city staff and BRW in developing
' something that would be acceptable to the City Council in the long run. I may
be jumping ahead here a little bit. I presume in your packets you do have the
resolution and condition 1 as it reads in the resolution, MnDot would have same
' concern over that delay that we've presented right now. We would like to
suggest something that rather than shall be, that the proposals here be
submitted to MnDot for staff approval and incorporation into the TH 5/TH 101
' layout plans. As far as the median opening on 79th Street, we've read a lot of
comments about that at the open house and the public meeting as well. I
recognize that as a concern and the fact that the rerouting of TH 101 is
probably going to take place and be turned back to a local jurisdiction, we
' wouldn't have any problem with providing the opening at 79th Street. In
relation to the south leg of Great Plains Blvd., south of TH 5, our layout again
presumed that TH 101 was still routed as it is today when we developed that
' layout. obviously some things are changing and that's perhaps the need for
doing a traffic forecast to show where the local circulation and traffic is
really going to take place in this area of the new intersection of Market Blvd.
and Great Plains Blvd.. Therefore, if in fact the traffic does decrease on
' Great Plains Blvd., why then the access to the Legion and to the Superette there
could be left open. Recognizing that the access to the Legion is relatively
close to the intersection, given that the traffic volume were to decrease, the
better distance that you can get from the intersection, the better the design
will be. The better the traffic operation will be if there's going to be a
median...
' Councilman Geving: Would you look at that double left hand turn on the south
side there. That's the one that I think we're concerned about.
' Carl Hoffsted: ...had a chance to really look at this yet. We have two other
concerns. Probably just a quick glance. Number one, the intersection starts to
get faily wide. We have to look at it from a signing standpoint. We also have
' to look at it from a traffic signal mast arm placement standpoint and provide
islands in the northwest quadrant and southeast quadrant for the traffic signals
where we would be getting into additional right-of-way in both of those
quadrants and probably will affect the businesses of both the Legion and Holiday
' on the northwest quadrant. So there are some other things there that have to be
looked at as well.
' Councilman Geving: Carl, would it be in your area of expertise to discuss the
potential for passenger/pedestrian overpass across TH 5 here at this point? Is
that part of your analysis of what you would build into a traffic plan? We've
' requested that through the environmental worksheet.
Carl Hoffsted: Right now we don't have any proposals for a pedestrian overpass.
For a signalized intersection, it would be designed to accommodate pedestrians
' with the depressed curbs.
Councilman Geving: Geez, that would be pretty tough. You're talking about a
' freeway here.
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City Council Meeting - November 28, 1988
Carl Hoffsted: ...signal indications as well. In looking at it, we'd have to
determine whether the pedestrian bridge could be provided. The landings within
the right-of-way without affecting the businesses in the area. The City of Eden
Prairie has requested a pedestrian bridge at the TH 4 and TH 5. They are paying
100% of that pedestrian bridge and the right-of-way.
Councilman Geving: Could you give me an idea of what that would cost? I
Evan Green: $300,000.00.
Councilman Boyt: Is it the same cost if you go under the road? I think the
Park and Rec people indicated that their information said there was higher use
of these things if they went down instead of up. What's the cost look like to
put it under the road?
Carl Hoffsted: I guess at this point in time we really don't have an estimate
of going under the road. We've always been discouraging going under as being I
kind of a safety problem in terms of people walking through there at night or
unprotected.
Councilman Geving: Thank you. I just wanted to air that because it's been of I
interest to me.
Gary Warren: I think there is a possibility and I was talking with Evan earlier I
today, of looking at the railroad. There will be a new bridge built, two more
lanes over the railroad track.
Councilman Geving: Up by the church?
Gary Warren: Yes. We could get a crossing there.
Councilman Geving: Let's not lose sight of that because I think that's a good
possibility and a necessity.
Councilman Boyt: One of the questions raised by the Chan Estates neighborhood
was how do we get to town. How do our kids get to town?
Councilman Geving: How do they get to school? I
Councilman Boyt: In the report that we received, I think it was recommended
that we have a couple of studies done for about $6,000.00 a crack. Do you feel
that those studies are needed?
Carl Hoffsted: Yes I do. I think for number one, to look at the signal
justification warrant for Market Blvd. and TH 5. Number two, to address the
Great Plains Blvd. and TH 5 area traffic.
Councilman Boyt: I would just ask you, isn't it obvious that you're going to I
need a signal at Market Blvd.? It isn't obvious?
Carl Hoffsted: We still have to justify it. I
Councilman Boyt: Nothing's obvious?
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•City Council Meeting - November 28, 1988
' Carl Hoffsted: If it's obvious, you've still got to justify it [-
I Councilman Horn: Just a comment, I agree. I think we need a little more study
on this to look at the traffic volumes. It's hard to imagine we could get this
kind of increase so I'm glad to hear that you'd like to correlate with the
studies that have already been done. My sense is that in the past I've never
seen a traffic study come in too low so I'd be very surprised if we got one that
came in too low. Most of them I think undershoot especially when you look at
population projections and things for this area. Maybe we do need this. It's
' hard to believe that some of these things are factored in when you look at this
Great Plains intersection but boy, it's hard to believe that you have to chew up
that much real estate for a road that's going to be downgraded as much as
' Great Plains will be when TH 101 moves. That's all I have.
Councilman Geving: I'm looking at this memorandum of October 24th. It says
there will be no left turns allowed to these entrances on West 79th. Now that's
' apparently taken care of?
Carl Hoffsted: Right.
' Councilman Geving: Another question on the second page, or a statement. Then
the Amoco station would have to be served with one entrance directly opposite of
West 79th. You've taken care of that apparently also?
Carl Hoffsted: BRW has.
' Councilman Geving: BRW has but these were questions that MnDot raised. I have
no other questions.
' Councilman Johnson: The Planning Commission discussed that a lot on the site
plan review last week with Amoco. What I'd like to do on the resolution is add
a third Whereas to say, Whereas, the preliminary layouts do not recognize the
realignment of TH 101. To put that into our resolution that we recognize that.
' Then as they're talking there, change number 1 in here to be, shall be
considered as presented in the November 22nd memorandum to the firm BRW. Then I
added at the end of this, and phase construction of these intersections to
' recognize that we may want to put the intersections in at this time under a 1990
forecast or 1992 or whatever forecast and then modify them in the future. So
we're not building a 2005 road in 1990 and have it sitting empty all this time.
Add a 5th item here in the resolution to say, pedestrian crossing of TH 5 shall
be taken into consideration. What we're doing is saying, we're looking at
MnDot's preliminary layout and saying, here's our criticisms of it. We're
approving your preliminary layout but we want to make sure these things are
' pointed out. Also put in, not in here but in whatever motion comes up, the
authorization to spend the $6,000.00 for the additional study to prove that
these intersections will operate as BRW believes they will. It doesn't prove
anything but it better estimate it. If it's allowed I can do that as a motion
at this time. I don't think you've had a chance to talk on this yet.
Mayor Hamilton: Right. I'm a little surprised that Clark didn't make his
' normal comment about traffic. Allowing it to move. I guess as I travel around
the metropolitan area and other states and cities, I find that the traffic seems
to be the worse in communities where you continually build barriers and try to
funnel traffic, force traffic into taking turns at specific spots. It moves the
i 68
City Council Meeting - November 28, 1988 7 11
1r- best in communities when you allow free movement of traffic just through the
marking and striping of lanes. You put lanes in here where so many towns now
have a lane where you turn left out of that lane in either direction. The lane
is not a traffic lane, it's a turning lane and that's where, those communities
have the best traffic movement. You can drive in there. You can get anyplace
you want to go. You can turn easily. You don't see people running into each
other and the traffic moves. When you start building these blocks of barriers,
all you do is stop the traffic and then everybody is, you ruin business if you
stop traffic and you make a mess. I'm very much opposed to what I've seen here
and I don't think we have the best solution. I'm not the least bit in favor of
it. That's my comments. Do you have a motion?
Councilman Boyt: As I said earlier this evening, there are enough arrows, lanes
and directions that people are going to go into shock when they come into that
intersection.
Councilman Geving: It's just a mess. ,
Mayor Hamilton: The people in this town can't handle the little intersection
we've got up here now and there's only 2 lanes. '
Councilman Geving: This is 6 lanes. How much land are we going to be taking
with these 6 lanes Gary? Have you got any feel for that? I
Gary Warren: 100 feet. I'm saying total right-of-way.
Councilman Geving: I kind of like what Jay had to say about adding those
several more provisions onto the resolution.
Councilman Johnson: I'll make the motion, one that we authorize the expenditure
of $6,000.00 for the additional modeling, or up to $6,000.00. I guess the
estimate is $5,000.00 or $6,000.00.
Mayor Hamilton: Is that one motion or are you going to attach that to the
others?
Councilman Johnson: Yes, I'm making that as one motion. Item 1 of the motion '
is that. Item 2 of the motion is approval of the resolution approving layout 1B
for TH 5, Flap A, S.P. 1002-44 with the added Whereas tossed in here saying
whereas the preliminary layouts do not recognize the realignment of TH 101.
Modifying item 1 to read intersection configurations for Dakota Avenue, Great
Plains Blvd. and Market Blvd. shall be conserved as presented in the November
22, 1988 memorandum from the firm of BRW (attached) , and phase construction on
these intersections also be considered. Adding an item 5 saying pedestrian
crossings of TH 5 shall be taken into consideration.
Councilman Horn: I'll second that. '
Mayor Hamilton: Are you seconding both motions?
Councilman Horn: Yes.
Mayor Hamilton: There are two motions here.
69 ,
11' city Council Meeting - November 28, 1988
Councilman Johnson moved, Councilman Horn seconded to authorize the expenditure
of up to $6,000.00 for an additional forecast modeling to give the answer to
when the expanded median section would be necessary. All voted in favor and the
motion carried.
' Resolution #88-130: Councilman Johnson moved, Councilman Horn seconded to
approve the resolution approving layout 1B for TH 5, Flap A, S.P. 1002-44 with
the addition of the following changes and additions. Whereas, the preliminary
' layouts do not recognize the realignment of TH 101. Modifying item 1 to read
intersection configurations for Dakota Avenue, Great Plains Blvd. and Market
Blvd. shall be conserved as presented in the November 22, 1988 memorandum from
the firm of BRW (attached) , and phase construction on these intersections also
be considered. Adding an item 5 saying pedestrian crossings of TH 5 shall be
taken into consideration. All voted in favor except Mayor Hamilton who opposed
and the motion carried with a vote of 4 to 1.
APPROVAL
OF AFFIRMATIVE ACTION PROGRAM FOR THE CITY OF CHANHASSEN.
Councilman Boyt: Couldn't we table this? I guess we can't. It has to be done
by the 1st?
' Don Ashworth: It's supposed to be done by December 1st. Todd had prepared
this. I wish that he were present to go through this. The legislature passed
this legislation. You really don't have a whole lot of choice about it. I'm
personally not that happy. I think that we do a good job in trying to pick the
best candidate for positions but you're forced to comply.
Councilman Geving: We do that anyway. Do you have to forward your selections
and things like that? How are they going to get the statistics?
Councilman Boyt: They'll come and ask you for them.
' Don Ashworth: They'll be asking. We'll be forced into maintaining the
certificates.
' Councilman Geving: Well, it's just good business anyway.
Councilman Boyt: I wish Todd was here too because I'm not real happy with this,
having gone through a couple of audits. It might be a reasonable first start.
I gather that the source of availability of numbers was Anoka?
Don Ashworth: Actually I understand that most of it is supposed to be for
Chanhassen. I know the one from Anoka is in there but this supposedly came from
back from the State.
' Councilman Boyt: It's not the one from Anoka, it's the availability charts
which are critical are from Anoka and I'm wondering, generally different job
families take in different geographic availability numbers so a senior planner
might take in a national availability number since we recruit nationally whereas
a clerk, who's going to take in a local community availability number. That was
one concern I had.
I
70
jsontv
TRANSPORTATION TEERING
BRW, INC. • THRESHER SQUARE 700 THIRD STREET SOUTH MINNEAPOLIS,MINNESOTA 55415 • PHONE. 612/370-0700 FAX 612/3701378
I
_ 1.i.
MEMORANDUM
DATE : January 18, 1989
t,
TO : Garry Warren
City Engineer
,
FROM: Howard Preston , PE
Project Engineer
III SUBJECT: TH 101 Realignment t
Revised Preliminary Geometric Layout
I- In November , 1988 , I submitted sketches to you illustrating ' I
revisions to Mn/DOT ' s Layout 1B (SP 1002-44) for TN 5 that would
be necessary to accommodate the proposed realignment of TH 101 and
the full development design hour traffic forecasts prepared for II N the City by Benshoof and Associates . At the City Council meeting
on December 12, 1988, the sketches were discussed and a number of
suggestions were made by both the Council and the public
regarding changes to the intersections designs . In addition ,
II
BRW was authorized to prepare a revised Preliminary Geometric
Layout that incorporated the necessary design features and the
changes suggested at the Council meeting . '
. A "Draft " of the proposed revisions to Mn/DOT ' s SP 1002-44 (TH 5) t.
Layout 1B is attached for your review. This layout incorporates---
f all of the design features documented in my memo of November 23 ,
- 1988 , and the following suggested changes :
o TH 5 at Dakota Avenue/North Leg TH 101 - NO CHANGE II
o North Leg TH 101 at West 78TH Street - A free right turn •
condition was added for the southbound TH 101 to westbound
West 78TH Street movement . This should make it easier and
more convenient for vehicles to enter the downtown area .
o TH 5 at Great Plains Boulevard - The south leg of the ' II
Y intersection was revised to eliminate all of the center
median , except the northernly 150 feet . The median was
replaced with a segment of two-way left turn lane . This
design will result in both the Legion Club and the retail
t development at the corner of Lake Drive having unrestricted
r access to and from both directions of Great Plains Boulevard . ;, II
_ There were no changes to the north leg of the intersection .
II
MINNEAPOLIS DENVER PHOENIX TUCSON ST PETERSBURG
lay
I
' o TH 5 at Market Boulevard/South Leg TH 101 - The geometrics at
the TH 5 intersection are the same as previously illustrated
on the sketches . The design of the north leg has been
' extended to match the existing Market Boulevard north of the
railroad tracks and the four- lane divided roadway design on
the south leg was extended past the intersection with Lake
Drive .
' Please note that additional layout work will be required to
document the geometrics involved with connecting the new south
' leg of TH 101 with the existing roadway , somewhere in the
vicinity of Lake Susan . We are in the process of
developing an adequate base map . I will keep you advised of our
progress on this issue .
We have made substantial progress toward developing the 1990
traffic forecasts for the revised street network . Preliminary
1 results should be available for your review next week with a
finished product the following week .
Please call if you have any questions .
' HP/jm
Enclosures
PR0J408831
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T,H. 101 REALIGNMENT di A —
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