9. 1989 Lake Ann Park Parking Fee CITY OF -
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°" 690 COULTER DRIVE • P.O. BOX 147 • CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
MEMORANDUM =``" I---1)
1 TO: Park and Recreation Commission
11.-___ ,1.77_fig49-_
FROM: Todd Hoffman, Recreation Supervisor
1 DATE: January 5 , 1989 gate ;;4,�r1..-=1 0 "Jr'cti
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IISUBJ: Lake Ann Park Parking Fees
1 This item was discussed extensively during its review in 1988.
Final action for that year was taken at the April 11, 1988 City
Council meeting. At that time the City Council voted to continue
the fees that were in place and asked the Park and Recreation
1 Commission to review this item again early in 1989. Minutes of
that meeting are attached. As this item is discussed, it is
important to keep in mind the reason behind the issue. It is not
1 that people are upset about the amount they must pay, but that
they must pay at all.
1 The hot and dry summer of 1988 generated record high revenue
through Lake Ann Park fees . A total of 6 ,057 daily and seasonal
passes were sold generating $10 , 971 .00 in daily passes and
$12, 490 . 00 in seasonal passes , for a total gross revenue of
I $23 ,461 . 00 . Subtract a 6% sales tax and net revenue equalled
$22 ,053 . 34. This is an increase of approximately $6,000.00 over
1987. A history of the total amounts collected since 1984 is
Iattached.
The current consensus as to why a fee is charged seems to be that
it helps offset the cost of the beach program and general main-
I tenance. This year' s revenue did offset the cost of the total
beach program including the gate attendants. However, it cannot
then be said that a noticeable portion of the maintenance costs
I are being covered. An example of the line item expenditures
incurred in 1988 are as follows:
I Beach Program $16,550 . 00
Gate Attendants 4 ,500 .00
Satellites 3 ,500 . 00
Lake Ann Stickers 500 .00
IPower for Ballfield Lights 450 .00
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Park and Recreation Commission
January 5 , 1989 '
Page 2
The fee was originally established so that park users helped pay
for services available at the park, which in 1988 , it did
accomplish. The question is should this continue or should
access to Lake Ann Park be free of charge.
At present, park entrance fees are $10 .00 for a non-resident
season pass, $5 .00 for a resident season pass, and $3 .00 for a
daily pass . One alternative to this fee structure is to lower
the fees over a two or three year period, gradually phasing them
out. If the parking fees are to be discontinued, this may be the
most palatable manner in which to do so. The loss of revenue
would then be adjusted in the park maintenance and operation
budget. Looking further, the discontinuation of the fees would
impact other areas of the park operations. Each year five to
seven employees are hired to staff the gatehouse. Besides
selling parking stickers, the gate attendants carry out the duty
of operating the lights on Field #1 during softball games.
Without the attendants, an automatic timer would need to be
purchased and installed. The gatehouse located at the entrance
of the park would no longer be necessary. Its removal would
necessitate relocation of the electrical panel attached to the
gatehouse. The elimination of gate attendants would also elimi-
nate the employee pool which helps out in a myriad of other ways
including softball tournaments, the 4th of July Celebration, and
Oktoberfest. Attendants are also needed at the boat access on
Lotus Lake and many summer employees return to work as rink
attendants later in the year.
Lastly, close examination should be given to the "hottest" issues ,
surrounding park fees . This past summer a great deal of concern
was expressed by parents and spectators of children participating.:
in youth baseball programs at the park. They considered it ridi-
culous that they were charged to have their children play at Lake
Ann Park. In one instance, I was summoned to the park by an
attendant who was having great difficulty with this situation.
Parents of children who are participating in swimming lessons and
playground programs dislike paying a parking fee, especially
after they have paid to enroll their children in these classes.
Some softball players also disagree with having to purchase a
$5 .00 season pass reasoning that their team already paid the
registration fee for the program.
Whatever decision is reached, many areas in the operation of Lake
Ann Park and this department as a whole will be affected. Care-
ful consideration should be given to all factors involved. If
it is determined that paying a fee to use Lake Ann Park is undue
restriction of park use, it is the recommendation of this
department to phase out the fees over a two year period as
follows:
1989 1990 1991
Seasonal non-resident $10 .00 $ 6 . 00 -0- '
Seasonal resident $ 5 .00 $ 3 . 00 -0-
Daily $ 2 .00 $ 1 .00 -0-
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Park and Recreation Commission
' January 5 , 1989
Page 3
If it is determined that the fee is not an unecessary charge for
the services available at the park, it is recommended that the
fees remain as is.
Update (January 18, 1989) : This item was discussed at the
January 10, 1989 Park and Recreation Commission meeting. Their
' recommendation is to continue fees at Lake Ann Park, but to lower
the daily fee from $3 . 00 to $2. 00 . The Commission felt that
besides raising revenue, the park fee provides a means of moni-
toring park activity. The Commission also felt that arrangements
should be made to allow youth athletic participants use of the
park free of charge.
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LAKE ANN PARKING FEE SCHEDULE HISTORY '
1984 1985 1986 1987 1988 '
Daily Fee $4.00 $3.00 $3.00 $3.00 $3.00
Season Sticker 4.00 5.00 5.00 5.00 5.00 I
(Resident)
Season Sticker 25.00 10.00 10.00 10.00 10.00 ,
(Non-Resident)
Total $10,350.00 $13,628.00 $17,239.00 $17,234.00 $23,462.00 '
Collected
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Park and Rec
Commission Meeting
IIJanuary 10, 1989 - Page 23
I Sietsema: I 'm going to type them up and bring them back to you on the
24th.
IHasek : So we get to review it before it goes to Council still .
Sietsema: The Council doesn' t have to review the questions. That' s your
criteria .
IHasek : That was my question . Can we send it with just point number 6?
I Sietsema: Oh criteria. No. I don' t think Council needs to see the
questions . If they want to ask different questions , then they can ask the
people to attend the City Council meeting.
ISchroers : I 'm wondering if we can' t just decide on 3 or 4 questions right
now and get it over with.
IMady: I guess I 'd like to see them.
Boyt : Curt has them written down.
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Mady moved , Hasek
Y seconded to amend the motion for the criteria for
candidate selection to include a 6th criteria which states , candidate
Iselection should be based on the interview conducted by the Park and
Recreation Commission. All voted in favor and the motion carried .
litkESTABLISH 1989 LAKE ANN PARK PARKING FEE SCHEDULE.
II Hasek: A lot of comments on this from me I ' ll tell you. I think we -have
to have it. I think we have to maintain a fee out there. Number one, if
we reduce it, if we eliminate the fee , it' s going to increase the usership
of the park and the increase use is going to create more maintenance
I problems out there. I think it ' s going to give us more problems with
security and drinking and a lot of other things and I think just a little
bit of security at the entryway in the form of a fee is going to help us
I reduce some of that. Even though it ' s only a nominal fee. I would hate
to see that park get overused . It seems to me like the most intensely
used parks in this city all have the a fee. Those being the Hennepin
I County park system. I enjoy them myself as a resident to be able to go in
there and know that the place is going to be at least halfway well kept
and maintained and my kids aren ' t going to be walking on all kinds of
busted beer bottles and stuff where they don ' t belong and so forth so I
' don' t think that a minimal fee is out of line at all . I would like to see
the fees probably reduced a little bit. I don ' t think they have to be
quite as high as they are . The suggestion of 6 , 3 and 1 for the 1990, I
I think is probably as low as we should have to go. If there' s a problem
with paying for it at the entrance point that we' ve got , maybe that
entrance point can be moved. That ' s will have to be looked at in the
I context of the overall . . . for the park once it' s completed in the final
design. Another thing, I think if we have problems with special events
like swimming lessons or softball teams, some of those things , maybe we
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting
January 10, 1989 - Page 24 ,
should figure out a way where that price can be worked into the fees for
those events and the participants get a sticker along with the event .
That way there shouldn' t be any arguments about it . Maybe if you pay for
the swimming lessons, you get a sticker that goes along with the swimming II
lessons. You end up paying for the sticker eventually. Or maybe you
don ' t pay for the sticker . Maybe it' s just included with it but I think
if you have people that are out there manning the use of the park, I think II
that ' s important to understand that there ' s more than simply showing up
two days at the park involved. A little bit of fee for maintenance of
that park isn' t all that much.
Mady: I think my position is pretty well known on this . I 'm totally
against having fees in parks . I feel parks are open space that all people
should have access to. I know that my position is probably a minority
position and Ed' s thoughts on the people who are attending swimming
lessons, the softball teams, the play activities that take place at the
park, those were the people who were complaining last year. Some were
very vehement about it and caused some problems with the gate attendant . I
guess if we are going to approve park fees, recommend park fees for this
coming year , I would at least like to see us allow for the families who
have swimming lessons. If you ' re paying a fee, you should get into the
park. If you ' re paying to use that park already, some type of activity,
be it swimming lessons , softball , soccer , whatever. If your activity,
your recreational programs already cost them a fee , I would hope that we 11 would at least be able to use the facility.
Boyt : What about teams that are coming from another city to play against
a Chanhassen baseball team? Little children. 11
Hasek: I think that if it can be included in a fee , and they get a
sticker for it, I don' t see any problem with that. Maybe that' s reduced .
Maybe those are given , the cost for those is $2. 00 instead of $3 . 00 or
whatever you decide is the final . Or $4 . 00 instead of $6. 00 or something .
Maybe it' s only the $3 . 00. Maybe it' s for an event . I think it can be
looked at in a number of different ways but I really, I feel very strongly
that if we eliminate the fee, that park will go to hell in a hand basket
so quickly it will just make your eyes water. You've got no control over
useage out there whatsoever . While I agree with Jim that I think the
parks are for people and they should be free, I think in today' s society,
it' s just one of those givens . You need something under control . Even a
high school kid standing in a simple little box at the entryway is a form 1
of deterrent .
Robinson : I think this is the wrong time to be talking about a $23 , 000 . 00
item and whether or not we' re going to charge a fee in 1989 or not . We 've 11
got this , I hope , in our budget someplace. Somebody does . The income off
this and the expense.
Sietsema : It ' s a projected figure. We don' t expect to get the $23, 000 . 00 I
again this year because we don' t expect the weather to be the same and it
varies from year to year . It is varied anywhere from $5 , 000. 00 to the
$23, 000. 00 so it' s not . . .
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting
' January 10, 1989 - Page 25
' Robinson : For the last 5 years it' s been , the most was $10, 000. 00. That
was 1984 so we must have had considered in our budget the total of
.$17, 000. 00 to $23 , 000. 00 someplace in there and I don' t think we should
discontinue that now. At this time. I guess I also, my opinion Lori is
that I don' t think it buys us anything to phase it out , as you've
proposed. It sounds like the City Council , in their discussion, it was
either a fee or no fee . I think the $20, 000. 00 income is really
important. It wouldn ' t buy us anything, cutting the fee, in 1990. Either
we've got the money or we don ' t . I don ' t think we going to cut out
anything. We' re not going to cut out lifeguards or any other services at
Lake Ann if we don' t charge a fee . And one I hadn' t thought of is like Ed
says, I guess I agree with that. A fee does provide some sort of control .
I don' t see anything wrong with charging a fee to a resident for a program
like swimming lessons or whatever they have out there. I don' t know how
you handle out of town baseball players . Maybe you make an exception or
something.
Boyt : Well a dollar seems pretty reasonable or $2. 00.
Mady: One of the things you could do though with the Minnetonka teams
' that come in is to provide the coach with a pass . A one time pass .
Sietsema: It ' s a hassle though to get a pass of some kind to little
' Eddy' s grandmother who ' s coming from out of town to see him play at Lake
Ann Park when they usually play up in Mound. What I would suggest is to
just tell the gate keeper that if they' re there to watch the Little League
game, let them in. We can run it that loosely don' t you think?
' Hoffman : Basically the reason we tightened it up this year is because
that' s an ordinance which is on our books and if it ' s an ordinance, we
' shouldn ' t really be making arbitrary decisions on who we ' re letting into
the park and not. It should be a clearly stated ordinance and that ' s how
we should operate the park I believe.
Boyt: I guess the teams that are coming in should be notified when they
sign up to use our park facility that this is what our ordinance says and
let them notify their team members and families .
Hasek: I guess it' s one thing to let the team and the team members in ,
the parents of the team but if there' s a spectator coming to the game,
they' re going to the park to basically recreate just like anybody else.
My parents showed up for a couple of tournaments last year and I simply
game them the money to pay for the ticket to get them in the gate. Both
of them are senior citizens so they could have gotten in for free anyway
but I didn' t see any point of it so I just paid for it . I guess it ' s one
thing if somebody' s complaining about having to pay for their child to use
when they' ve already paid for softball or swimming lessons or tennis
lessons or anything else that might be going on there but if somebody' s
complaining about getting in to having to watch an event, here ' s a little
more definite thing. The teams will all have, if we orchestrate it that
' we gave them passes with the application and registration fee. The teams
then would have all of the stickers. One other thing we wanted to talk
about here is the segment for reduced costs too . We considered that last
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting
January 10, 1989 - Page 26
year . Did we ever do that? A car reduction? 1
Mady: We talked about it last year and we said, there was really no way
of monitoring it. 1
Hasek: Yes . I do recall that .
Robinson : Somebody said it' s really a parking fee which makes sense to
me.
Schroers : That' s what it is and when you get into . . .cars and reduced 1
rates and all of that, you' re causing a lot of administrative work .
Sietsema : Our receptionists have enough fees to keep track of. 1
Schroers: Your spending more than you gain in that situation. Is it my
turn yet? I agree strongly with Ed on several of his points . I think it 1
would be a major mistake to eliminate the fees . It' s definitely a control
measure. People know that when they have to come and pay, it just gives
them a message that this is a place that ' s being taken care of and it ' s a
place where you' re going to have to be responsible for your actions . If
it was free, the property would not be respected. I know that for sure
and I 'd really hate to see that . I think that the 1989 schedule looks
just fine. I like dropping the daily fee from $3. 00 to $2. 00. I think
that ' s good . I would just like to see us stay intact as it is . I do
think that we could make some sort of provisions for youth groups . I
don' t think it ' s fair to charge a Little League team a parking fee to come
in unless you set it up with their school district or something ahead of
time from where they' re coming . That ' s the way that Hennepin Parks does
it. When we bus school groups in from various municipalities for nature
programs or whatever , there is like one parking fee per bus or something II that's been set up ahead of time with that school district or municipality
or whatever it is so you ' re not holding up a whole group while somebody' s
trying to verify paying for parking . I think that when you set up the
Little League schedule or whatever , that ' s just a part of the procedure.
Other than that, anybody, whatever it is , 16 years old or whatever , should
have to pay the parking fee except for senior citizens .
Boyt: If we have many of the people arguing with the gate attendant , we
can have a policy set up of we need you to pay your fee today but I ' ll
take down this information and send it to my supervisor. If they
determine that you should have a refund , you ' ll get it in the mail .
Someway of dealing with it .
Mady: Take it up with City Hall . 1
Boyt: Well , if they live in Minnetonka or maybe there' s a card that we
give them, here contact this person. You have a set way of dealing with
it.
Robinson : Take the hook off the antenna cable .
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting
January 10, 1989 - Page 27
Hoffman: Yes , we instruct them not to take any verbal abuse . Just to
handle the situation in the best possible manner. However, to yet be firm
but to get out of the situation without getting into an argument , verbal
' argument with the person at the gate.
Schroers : A sign right at the gate that specifies park rules and parking
' fees and that sort of thing also beefs up his authority. I think that' s
real helpful . It' s right there in writing. People can ' t argue with him
about it.
Hoffman: We put the sign out there this summer that said, welcome to Lake
Ann Park. Parking sticker required. Fees are etc. and that does give
them a little more credibility.
Boyt: Maybe t-shirts for our . . .
Hoffman : This year Sue . We' re already there.
' Boyt: Uniforms for gate attendants . We see them sitting out there doing
their crocheting at South Lotus Lake or reading their comic books at Lake
Ann. They don' t look professional . They' re going to get hassled. If
they have on a uniform, if they' re acting professional , they' ll be treated
more professionally.
' Schroers : I think any organized park that you go to , you ' re going to find
that there' s a fee. Whether it' s a state park or a federal park , there' s
some kind of fee and where there isn ' t, for example maybe a Minneapolis
city park, they are patrolled heavily. Park police with regular police
with scheduled patrol routes and that ' s the other option. If you don ' t
charge a fee, then you have police out there all the time and I don' t
think that that ' s what you want .
Hasek: That was the last point and I couldn ' t find it and I found it
afterwards. What it' s going to do, I think if we take this fee away, it' s
going to tend to drive up costs in other areas . In maintenance and
patrolling. I think it ' s going to, rather than helping us to cover the
costs , it ' s going to end up costing us so it ' s going to be a double
' indemnity.
Schroers : I agree with that , yes .
Robinson : When we took that survey, it was relative to the community
center but we gave them some choices and wasn ' t the user fee the way that
most of them proposed to pay for it . So this is kind of like that .
' Schroers : Yes, that' s what it is , is a user fee. Jim' s theory is great.
A free park. Everybody can go in and if everyone would treat it with
respect, that would be great but it won' t happen.
Boyt : Are the season passes available at the gate?
Sietsema: Yes .
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting
January 10, 1989 - Page 28
Hasek: It sounds like we' re fairly much in agreement here. The only
question would be the fee structure. I guess just in relation to that,
I 'd like to suggest that we set the fees , I think that the comment about
the budget is probably appropriate. I don' t know if we reduce the fees to II
8, 4 and 2 if that' s going to dramatically impact what we get out there. I
think we' re slated for another dry year this year. That' s what the
predictions are going to be so I 'm assuming that we can still collect a
substantial , at least I 'm going on the impression that we can collect a
substantial amount for that if we charge a daily of $2. 00 instead of the
daily of $3 . 00, at least that' s a step in the right direction for some of
those people . $2. 00 now a days doesn' t buy you, what' s a pack of '
cigarettes cost?
Hoffman: The daily fee , reducing that from $3 . 00 to $2. 00 would be the
most appropriate. If we' re going to keep that fee there, lowering them
from $10. 00 to $8 . 00 and $5 . 00 to $4 . 00. Again , people aren' t arguing the
amount. They' re arguing whether they' re paying or not so $10. 00/$5. 00,
daily at $3 . 00, some people that want to come watch a game, might not
think of $2. 00 as intrusive.
Schroers : I agree with that . I think that ' s a good fee structure . 10, 5 II
and 2.
Hasek: The $2 . 00 daily I think is the only thing that I was shooting for I
there. We can' t charge more than twice for a non-residents right?
Sietsema : Right .
Schroers : How many non-residents , just out of curiosity, do we sell many
non-residents?
Hoffman : It ' s a small percentage. 5% to 10a of the seasonal passes .
Hasek: I 'd like to make a motion that we set the fees at $10 . 00 , $5 . 00
and $2. 00 for 1989 and can we push that down the road a little bit so we
don' t have to talk about it every year .
Sietsema: It ' s in the ordinance we have to talk about it every year . I
Hasek: Okay, for the 1989 season.
Schroers : I ' ll second that . '
Mady: Did you want to talk about phasing them out?
Hasek : I don ' t think that they should be phased out . I think that should
be stated. I think that there are good and valid reasons for keeping them
in place . The security issue . The budget issue. The maintenance issue.
The double indemnity based upon cost. Users getting in there and tearing
it up and we' re going to have to pay to fix it . I think the costs there
need to be controlled so I think some of those issues that we talked about
should be included in there so they understand why it is that we want to
keep them. It' s not just a matter of raising money. There are a lot of
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting
January 10, 1989 - Page 29
' things that are involved.
Mady: So your motion is that the fees be $10. 00, $5. 00 and $2. 00 and not
11 be phased out?
Hasek: Exactly.
Hasek moved , Schroers seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission
recomend to set the fees for Lake Ann Park at $10. 00 for the seasonal ,
non-resident; $5. 00 for the seasonal , resident; and $2. 00 for the daily
user fee and that the fees not be phased out over the next two years. All
voted in favor except Jim Mady who opposed and the motion carried .
Robinson: If we have to talk about this every year , could it be talked
about in the August timeframe?
Mady: I think the fees have to be set by the first of the year so. . .
' Hasek: Does that mean you can' t talk about them earlier?
Robinson : Because I really think it is too late to be talking about
' 1989. . .
Schroers : When we' re into ' 89 .
Mady: The only problem is , if the Council were to abolish the fee , then
Don' s budget has a hole.
' Sietsema : But he took that into consideration when he made his
projections .
Mady: I realize that. When he makes his budget out . . .
Sietsema: He anticipated that that was going to be lowered because he
knew what the Council ' s direction was .
Mady: The City' s budget does have some deviation.
ESTABLISH 1989 PARK AND TRAIL DEDICATION FEES .
Hasek : I don' t see any reason to change it , just a quick comment.
' Sietsema : I have a couple comments if you could bear with me. This item
was brought up at the Council meeting last night under Council
presentations and the Council indicated that they would , or some of the
Council members in any case, indicated that they would like the Commission
to consider looking into raising them because it doesn ' t appear that we
can purchase property outside of a subdivision with the money that we ' re
collecting . For instance, 1 acre per 75 people , let ' s say Pheasant Hills
was coming in right now for subdivision and we determined that the land