10. Budget Amendment to Complete Lake Ann Park Shelter , _ v
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CITYOF
1 ..1- CHANHASSEN
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690 COULTER DRIVE • P.O. BOX 147 • CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
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(612) 937-1900
Action by City Administrator
I MEMORANDUM
Endomed- -_
TO: Park and Recreation Commission Rejected_____
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FROM: Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation Coordinator Mete subnured t:, c,,,,,n;, ,rn
DATE: June 22, 1988
c'' _1SUBJ: Lake Ann Park Shelter
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1 Attached please find a letter to the Chanhassen Legion outlining
the current cost figures of the park shelter. The original cost
estimate by Tom Klingelhutz was $25 ,000 . The Council approved
I $15, 000 to be loaned to the Legion for the materials and the
Legion agreed to provide the labor and any other costs .
The project now exceeds the original cost estimate of $25 ,000 at
I $28,300, (not including electrical) . It is clear that everyone
would like the project to be completed as soon as possible. The
question is, will the city authorize a loan increase to $25 ,000
I and are we willing to pay the $3 , 300 not currently budgeted by
either the City or Legion.
The Chaska Lion' s Club recently made two donations to the Park
I Department ( $6 ,900 and $4,200) . A potential solution is to use
this money to fund the completion of the interior and electrical
work ( $8 ,000) .
IStaff feels this is a viable alternative; however, it should be
noted that such will reduce either the reserve fund or the 1989
I capital improvement project fund. A second alternative would
involve requesting the Legion to pay the $3 ,300; after all, had
the project been completed in 1986 with volunteer labor, it would
have come in under budget. Please realize that the second alter-
1 native may result in bad feelings with the Legion and undoubtedly
delay the completion of the building.
I Update (June 28 , 1988) :
U-7
The Park and Recreation Commission did not feel that the City
I should expend unbudgeted money in 1988 to complete the park
shelter. The Commission expressed that the Legion is a credible
organization and were confident that they would fulfill their
commitment to finish the structure.
I
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Update - June 28, 1988
Page 2
The Park and Recreation Commission recommended to deny the budget
amendment proposal . They indicated that the Legion should con-
tinue to work on the shelter and should consider fundraisers,
donations, and/or volunteer labor if funds are limited. The
Commission also requested that the Legion begin paying the
monthly installments on the existing loan.
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Park and Recreation Commission Meeting
June 28 , 1988 - Page 28
Sietsema: So you want your decision statement to be. . .
Mady: Where should the City of Chanhassen locate a park in the southern
portion of the City? Everything else is an objective direction.
' Boyt: The statement could be to acquire parkland in southern Chanhassen?
Sietsema: Okay. Then I ' ll schedule, if that' s in agreement by everybody,
I ' ll schedule just two items on the July 26th meeting. One being lake
' access and one being south parkland .
Schroers : I would like to know about the wildlife sanctuary. Is that a
private thing? Is it a State thing? What is it? If that's a wildlife
sanctuary, if that would restrict us from being able to use that land for
park area.
Mady: If it' s in Chaska . Let' s on with 7, the park shelter .
LAKE ANN PARK SHELTER BUILDING.
Sietsema: What the Legion and I have come to understand is what I 've
' written in the letter to them, is that they are willing to pay up to
$25, 000. 00 on the park shelter which leaves $3, 300. 00 that neither we or
the Legion is planning to pay. The quote came in at $9, 009. 00. Roughly
$10,000. 00. That put the ball back in our court. Are we going to pick up
that? Are we going to go back and request that they pick it up? Are we
going to scale down the finishing work? How do we want to do it? We do
have the alternative to use Chaska Lion' s Club money. We recently
' received two donations which add up to $11,000.00 which is roughly what we
need to do the finishing work and get the electrical up to that shelter .
That would approve an additional $10,000. 00 that we' re loaning to the
I Legion. Then we would pay the additional $3,300. 00 and we could do the
$8,000.00 for the electrical work. That would get the job done.
Schroers : Would it be feasible to split that $3, 300.00 with the Legion
' and make a compromise of 50-50 on that $3,300. 00?
Sietsema: We can ask them. The big question right now, and I haven ' t
talked to the Legion directly about this, evidentally they lost their
pulitab license and that ' s what they' re making their money on and I don't
know how they' re going to pay the $15,000. 00 back much less $25, 000. 00.
don ' t know if they sell that many steaks . They' ve opened for business now
for lunches but the whole thing was set up that they were going to pay us
back with pulitab money.
Robinson: How did they lose their pulltabs?
Sietsema: Pulltabs, as I understand it , they originally set up the
' pulltabs so that, it' s charitable gambling so all your proceeds had to go
to charity. Then they said it costs us to have someone there selling them
and sometimes we have to leave space and okay, so you can take some of (1h =
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Park and Recreation Commission Meeting
June 28, 1988 - Page 29 ,
your operating costs out of that. The rest has to go to charity. People II
were abusing it by, these people that were coming in needed a place to
park so they'd repave their parking lot . They need a place to sit so
they'd add an addition and they need a bigger place to have it and they'd
add another . I don' t know if the Legion was doing that but now the State
has cut back and said forget it, this is bogus. Everything has to go to
charity. I don' t know if that had to do. That' s what is happening all
around the state with the charitable gambling and I don' t know what the
story is with Chan Legion. I don' t know if they fit into that category or
not but I know they aren't selling pulltabs right now.
Mady: I' ll tell you how I'm leaning personally, the City Council has
recently given us the Excelsior Amusement Park building to use at Lake Ann
and that' s going to require some extensive work. From my way of thinking, II
that thing is going to end up being our center of activity up there. We
probably will be able to put in that a real nice area inside that. I 'm
thinking that maybe we should just put concrete underneath that new
shelter out there and leave it as is until we have a real firm position
with what' s going to happen with the carousel building because I don' t
want to see us put all this money into this thing and two months from now
find our we' re going to put the carousel building 300 feet away from it '
and it's going to have all the same stuff in it.
Hasek: When was the carousel building going to Lake Ann for positive? '
Mady: Basically they said it' s up to us to determine how we' re going to
utilize it.
Hasek: In Lake Ann?
Mady: In Lake Ann. '
Hasek: So it' s in good enough shape to go into Lake Ann?
Sietsema: The City Council approved accepting the carousel building and
they found someone who is willing to move it at no cost or minimum cost
and they approved a budget for refurbishing and foundation of, I think it
was $25, 000.00. You remember $50, 000.00 so . . . '
Mady: The paper was saying $50,000.00 but you never know.
Sietsema: I ' ll have to look back in the Minutes and find out exactly what II
that was supposed to go for. If that was supposed to be moving costs or
what exactly but that gives us $25,000. 00 for foundation and refurbishing .
I don't know how far that's going to go on a building that size.
Schroers : That should actually be a totally separate project from this
other shelter. I
Sietsema: It is .
Schroers: And I don' t see us doing ourselves or the Legion a favor by
extending their debt to $25,000.00 at Lake Ann. To pay the $15,000.00. . . ' z
Park and Recreation Commission Meeting
' June 28 , 1988 - Page 30
Sietsema : I got a quote , and I should have brought that down with me, I
extracted the quote of just the concrete and I think it' s $3, 000. 00 just
for the concrete . For the Legion park shelter . That would be stubbing in
for electrical .
' Mady: The other option also is just to leave it as it' s been graded .
Hasek: Those footings stuff sitting out there is just. . .
' Schroers : Well , the footings aren' t really sticking out. Since we looked
at it last night, they went in there and graded it out so it's about up to
the level of the footings. There' s a picnic table sitting underneath
there on fairly level. . .
Hasek: I guess I 'd still like to see something put underneath there.
' It's just another thing that's unfinished.
Hoffman: Isn' t that going to be used for ballfield concessions in the
center where that carousel building you wouldn't want to be designing
ballfield concessions underneath that thing .
Schroers: I think we need to pursue our original , go with our original
' plans on that building and try to get it completed as best we can but by
putting the Legion further in debt on it and putting ourselves in a
position where we' re not going to be able to recollect the debt on it,
doesn' t sound like very good business practice to me.
Robinson: I guess I just disagree , I don' t agree that it has to be
completed as soon as possible. I think we' ve got to start sticking to a
' budget. For the same reason I was opposed against that zamboni . We have
about the same thing. Somebody comes to us and says we've got to do it
tonight. We' ve got to make a $5,000. 00 decision. The hell with it. That
thing has been sitting there for 2 years and nothing happened. The Legion
Ihas given us promises . Let it sit there until next year and let' s put it
in the budget for next year. That' s my feeling. I 've got to say that I
agree with Jim but for a different reason . By then we' ll have an idea
' that the carousel will fit in there and we just need a foundation or we
just need a place to put the keg out of the rain or something .
Hasek: I guess my gut reaction, just knowing about how the park is going
to lay out, is that that structure, if you want to put it in the middle,
has got to do almost exactly where that little building is. It' s got to on top of that hill someplace.
Mady: There' s a couple different places it would fit.
' Hasek: You can' t put it on the highest hill because that sucker would
blow over. You give it time and some wind storm will take that thing
right down.
Mady: Right now, where it' s located right now is basically on top of a = , _
hill and it' s been sitting there for a lot of years.
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Park and Recreation Commission Meeting
June 28, 1988 - Page 31
Hasek: I know what that structure, now that you mentioned where it came
from, I know what the structure looks like because I spent a lot of time
there growing up. Not as a little kid but as a teenager . '
Schroers: What I 'm hearing you say here though, I think someone is giving
the idea that the facility would be multipurpose and solve all the
problems. It' s going to take care of the ballfields and the rest of the
areas too and I don' t really see that. I think we need a separate
concession for the ballfields.
Boyt: The carousel is going to serve a different need .
Schroers: Absolutely. That 's going to be for the picnic groups and I
things like that. If you had us for both, there would be conflicting on a
weekend when you had a ball tournament out there and a picnic group is
going to use it.
Boyt: I would like to see the Legion finish '
g paying for this . If they
want to make some fundraisers. They made a commitment to us and they' re
an upstanding organization. I can ' t imagine that they would back out on
something that they' re donating to us.
Schroers : I agree with that. '
Boyt : They' re an upstanding group. They' re not going to say, we've
changed our mind. I think we need to give them the benefit of the doubt
and let them pay for it .
Hasek: What I was going to suggest was thinking about what the
possibility, I would hate looking at this thing finished exactly where
it' s sitting because I don' t think, if the carousel is going in there,
which I 'm very disappointed to hear, the building is going to go. I think
that this building is going to want to be moved. However , I think it I
needs to be finished to a point where it's useable and I don' t think with
gravel in there right now makes it entirely useable. What I would like to
see us do is to put a floor in that thing with the idea that potentially
that structure will be moved at some point in the future. Perhaps it' s I
more centrally located within the ballparks to serve the ballparks at that
time. Then , if we' ve got the floor underneath it , at least we've had it
there to use for a couple of years if it takes that long, in some form I
that it is useable. It won' t be that expensive to move that structure in
the future and remove the concrete pad and it' s not that great of a loss.
We've still got what we' ve got there. I think at the same time we do have
to keep the commitment that the Legion has made to us and I don' t know how
we can facilitate that .
Sietsema : Don' t you think that that will be somewhat centrally located '
when the other three fields are built and there's another field on the
other side?
Hasek: Potentially but if you recall , we talked about the possibility of
maybe putting another one down below anyway. This one was going to have :fir :
Park and Recreation Commission Meeting
' June 28, 1988 - Page 32
this stuff. Because it was going to be completed , this was going to have
the concessions. The other potentially would be just a picnic structure.
Now we' ve got a big building coming in that might be able to take up a lot
' of that picnic stuff and we' ll just reverse the roles possibly. It needs
to be looked at more than I think. . .
Sietsema: I think we are going to be looking at the Lake Ann development
with hopefully construction beginning next spring. That would be the time
to move that structure.
' Hasek: At least to locate it I would say.
Boyt: They need it out of the location it' s in right now.
' Sietsema: I 'm talking about the park shelter. The little park shelter.
The time to move that thing would be when they' re going to do the other
three ballfields and put it in the spot that you want it so if that' s
going to happen within the next year .
Hasek: Yes, but see that's not going to be used for those other
' ballfields for at least , what did we say, 3 years? 2 years at least.
It's not going to be centrally located at least for the next 2 years
because those other ballfields aren' t going to be used . They' re in
' construction stages for at least 2 years so even though that may be the
appropriate time to move those structures , it' s not going to be used and
it doesn' t make any sense to move it unless we' re going to use it. I
' don' t think there' s any cost benefit in moving it unless we can grade the
site for it or something.
Sietsema : No , what I was saying is why pour the concrete if you' re going
' to move it within the year?
Hasek: But it wouldn' t be, I 'm thinking more 2, possibly 3 years before
it gets done. We' re hoping that construction begins next spring.
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Mady: What are we waiting for on Lake Ann? We've got a plan set up, why
can' t we turn it over to Mark and say, okay let' s bid and let ' s go?
Sietsema: Right now we' re looking at architects. We' re not necessarily
going with Mark' s firm.
Mady: This isn ' t even the 1st of the July, they can grade through the
middle of November.
' Sietsema : This potentially, they could start some work this fall .
Boyt: The architect would be able to do the carousel and the small
' structure. The architect will look at those and decide the best place for
them.
' Mady: After seeing the structure tonight and how they've graded and what
they've done out there, we can easily get by with what we've got for the
remainder of the ear . If we want to
Y put a pad underneath it, maybe what
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Park and Recreation Commission Meeting
June 28, 1988 - Page 33 '
we want to do is put a floating wood deck underneath it instead of putting
concrete down. It has to be even more solid than the gravel . The
gravel ' s been done. Staff ' s done a nice job of getting that very level
and very, very useful. The ball season is ending up out there. They
probably wouldn' t get much use out of it anyhow so I think we'd wasting ,
potentially wasting $3,000.00 at this time. We need to get a little bit
better feeling from the Legion as to what their financial situation is and II
their plans for repayment and what they actually can do before we commit.
I don' t want to see us utilize the Lion' s donation for this project. I 'd
rather see that go into a more recreational use.
Sietsema: So do you want me to contact the Legion and say we' re going to
leave it sit the way it is and we hope to start receiving payment on the
current loan that they have. We understand that their pulltab business in I
no longer. . .
Mady: Just ask them for advice. Advise us as to what their plans are.
Sietsema: What I was thinking is that if you can prove that you can pay
this off without your pulltab business , next year we' ll budget for the
$10,000.00 to finish the thing but right now we' re not willing to take
that risk.
Hasek: Exactly. Just tell them exactly that' s the truth but we need to
know from them what their action is going to be. . .
Sietsema: They fully intend to pay the $15,000. 00 so far .
Hasek: But it's the addition to see it completed and that' s kind of the
whole ball of wax . If this is the bill , are you intending on paying this
or are you kind of stopping where you' re at now? What' s going on? You' ve II
got to get them to make some sort of statement as to what they intend to
do, I would guess . They said they' re going to pay the $15 ,000.00. Are
they going to pay the $25,000.00 if we loan them $10, 000. 00 more? That' s II
the question.
Sietsema: Yes , they plan to but again, without the pulltabs. . .
Hasek: I know they plan to. . .
Boyt : Let' s not lend it to them. They can come up with it on their own. II
Hasek: We kind of committed to lending it to them didn' t we?
Sietsema: We committed to lending them $15 ,000.00. ,
Hasek: But not ten more?
Sietsema: Not ten more.
Robinson: Tell them to take another $10,000. 00 to complete it and we' ll
expect that in the spring of 1989.
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Park and Recreation Commission Meeting
IJune 28, 1988 - Page 34
I Hasek : That' s really based on the labor right? They' re not providing the
labor to build it?
I Sietsema : The $10, 000. 00 over? Yes, basically they went over budget
because 3 years of increased prices while it sat out there for 2 years and
then they didn ' t have the volunteer labor. They had to pay for it. If I
I could have a motion directing me what you really want me to do, that would
be helpful .
Hasek: I think I 'd inform them that we' re not going to complete the
I structure at this time. Whether we put a floor in it or not, I guess I 'd
like to see it but I 'm certainly not going to hold things up because I
want a floor.
ISietsema: This is a recommendation that goes to Council .
I Hasek: If we recommend that we not complete the structure at this time.
That if anything , we' ll budget it for next year and we contact the Legion
and let them know exactly what' s going on. What our intentions are and
ask them what their intentions are based on what we know needs to be done
I to that to complete it. How they would like to handle the payment for
that. That' s my recommendation.
I Sietsema : Would you like to also include in that, to contact the Legion,
that we' re expecting their monthly payment starting immediately? So they
can prove that they do have the ability to pay?
IBoyt: No , just that we expect it. Not to prove to us.
Hasek: We trust they' re going to pay.
IBoyt: I don' t think that' s being too hard on them.
I ' Schroers : Are we open for discussion on this a little bit? I don' t know
— that we want to say that we would recommend not to complete. I would
think that we would like to . . .
IHasek: Delay completion?
Schroers : Not even delay completion. I would like it to say that we
I would intend to proceed as planned and we would just like them to start
their payments as scheduled and to proceed with the shelter as best they
can or ask how they intend to. I don' t know that we want to say that we . %
want to delay or stop the progress of completing the shelter . y
ISietsema: They can' t proceed without us lending them $10, 000. 00.
tBoyt: They can raise the $10,000.00 on their own.
Mady: What we're doing is we should be recommending that the City not
I spend any more funds to complete the Lake Ann shelter and ask the Legion
how they expect to proceed with it. At this time we will not expend any _.:.,
further funds to finish it from the City budget and nail the Legion to :.--11,:e,
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Park and Recreation Commission Meeting
June 28, 1988 - Page 35 '
come up with ideas to finish the structure. ,
Robinson: We' ve got a financial problem so throw it in their court.
Schroers: If we make that statement and we' re saying that we are not
planning to go ahead with construction or with finishing it, we' re kind of
telling them that the thing is on hold and they' re going to say, okay, the II
thing ' s on hold so now we can sit on it for a while and that' s exactly
what's going to happen. Nothing.
Boyt: We can just deal with the financial . Just say that we' re waiting '
for payment and want to know what their plans are for the future
completion.
Sietsema: Except that the City contacted them and said if they didn' t get II
on the ball we were going to take it over and we took over the project.
Boyt: Well , they still owe us money.
Sietsema : The City is now in the driver ' s sit of completing this project.
I went out and got the quotes for $10, 000.00. I was hopefully going to be II
able to get this thing done by the 4th of July. Again, another deadline
has gone by but I continually get pressure from the public and from the
Council on what' s happening with this thing so I called up Bernie and I
said, can I just take it over and go ahead and bill you guys?
Schroers : That ' s all the more reason that we don' t want to say that we' re
putting it on hold right?
Boyt: If we bill them, would they pay?
Sietsema : $500. 00. They made two payments last year .
Boyt: Last year. Okay, then maybe we need to deal with the fact that we
billed them and they didn' t pay. II
Mady: What we definitely need to deal with, what Lori is asking us to do
is asking to spend $10, 000.00 and finish the project. ,
Boyt : I don' t think we want to . It doesn' t sound like we want to .
Mady: We need to vote on that and then we need to deal with the Legion '
also .
Sietsema: What I 'd like to do then is to tell the Legion that no , we do
not have it in our 1988 budget to spend $10,000.00, loan them $10,000. 00
more. Please make your payments and we will look to budgeting for this
project in 1989, if that' s what you' re planning on doing.
Hasek: That basically I guess is what I thought I had said. That we
would tell them that we haven' t got $10,000.00 to loan them. That we' re
not going to loan that to them at this time and try to get them to suggest
ways that they can complete this project themselves. If they decided that -''
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Park and Recreation Commission Meeting
IJune 28, 1988 - Page 36
Ithey' re not going to be able to complete it , and they send us a letter
saying that, then we've got the option. Then our options are open. Then
I we can say, okay are we going to spend the money to complete this thing
next year? Are we going to move it? Maybe we' ll have a plan by then? It
pushes the decision off for us but it also allows them time.
I Sietsema: It can open the door back up to put it back in their ballpark
and say, if you can get the labor together and finish it, that would be
wonderful.
I Hasek: You might also suggest that you've gotten a lot of phone calls
from people in this city.
I Sietsema : They know. They get grief when they' re up there playing ball .
All the Legion members and the Sons of American Legion.
I Mady: We' ve got a motion on the floor and I think Susan seconded it.
We'd be glad to know what the motion is.
Sietsema: Ed moved to recommend that we not expend the money now in 1988
II to complete the project but budget it for 1989. Also, ask the Legion what
their intention of payment is and that we expect their payment and to
suggest to them that they proceed with getting volunteer labor to finish
Ithe project.
Mady: One thing that we talked about in there was , you said that we would
put in our budget. I 'd say that we' ll look to put in our budget. I don' t
I want at this point, commit to putting $10,000. 00 in our budget to finish
that shelter .
I Schroers : Not to make it more complicated but on the volunteer labor or
other resources .
I4- Hasek moved , Boyt seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission
recommend not to expend any funds at this point but to look at budgeting
the $10,000.00 in the 1989 budget. Also, to ask the Legion of their
I intention for payment of the $15,000. 00 and that payment is expected.
Also, suggest that the Legion consider volunteer labor or other resources
for finishing of the park shelter. All voted in favor and the motion
Icarried .
FOURTH OF JULY CELEBRATION.
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Hoffman: This is written to the Commission to inform you on what is being
planned for the weekend. To keep you updated. There' s a schedule of
Ievents also that was left with you.
The Commission discussed their schedule for helping during the Fourth of
IJuly celebration over the weekend.
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