7. Site Plan for Park and Site Improvements zoned CBD east of 480 West 78th St. Chan Professional Bldg. I
(C _I TY 0 F _
( ).C. DATE: Feb. 15, 1989
II \ IIY4 ClIAIIIIASSZN C.C. DATE: Feb. 27, 1989
CASE NO: 88-17 Site Plan
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. Prepared by: Hanson/v
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I
il 1 STAFF REPORT
iiPROPOSAL: Site Plan Review for Parking Lot for Phase I of the
Chanhassen Professional Building of 21,600 Square
Feet
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() LOCATION: North of West 78th Street and East of,d480_West,
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78th Street morlidcti____.
IAPPLICANT: Lotus Realty
II 4:1( P.O. Box 100
II Chanhassen, MN 55317
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PRESENT ZONING: CBD, Central Business District
IACREAGE:
IDENSITY:
ADJACENT ZONING
- AND LAND USE: N- R-12; proposed Heritage Park Apartments
II S- CBD; commercial uses
E- CBD; commercial uses
5 ' W- CBD; commercial uses
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LLJ WATER AND SEWER: Municipal services are available
F.
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PHYSICAL CHARAC. : Site is level.
II2000 LAND USE PLAN: Commercial
II
Professional Building Parking Improvements
February 15 , 1989
Page 2
APPLICATION
The first phase building for this area was approved by the '
Planning Commission and City Council in January. That approval
was contingent upon approval of the site plan for the parking
area. The proposed plans submitted for approval address the
items lacking when the building plans were approved.
ANALYSIS
The lighting to be used in this area is the same as used in the
rest of downtown. Landscaping plans provide shrub plantings
around the buildings and shade trees in the parking area. The I
parking has been adjusted to facilitate traffic flow and provide
adequate parking for the planned uses . The access drive between
building Phase I and II will not need to have a 14 ' clearance.
The main access drives -to the project will be the most westerly
drive which aligns with a break in the median on West 78th Street
and the first divide north of West 78th Street on Great Plains
Boulevard. The other two access drives on West 78th Street will
be restricted to right-in/right-out only. Access between Phase I
and Colonial Shopping Center has been aligned on the front. The
northerly access drive should be adjusted to better define the
drive.
The plans show improvements for the parking area that will be
completed with the Phase II building. This includes a temporary
access from West 78th Street and pavement of a portion of the
parking area adequate to serve Phase I . In addition, the
landscaping near the building will be done in this phase. The
remaining landscaping will be completed with the following Phase
II.
RECOMMENDATION '
Planning staff recommends the Planning Commission adopt the
following motion:
"The Planning Commission recommends approval of Site Plans for
the parking area of the north side public parking lot as part of
the site plan review of the Chanhassen Professional Building
#88-17 based on the plans stamped "Received February 8, 1989" and
subject to the following conditions: •1
1. Platting the area.
2 . Submittal of final facia, signage and exterior building
lighting for Planning Commission approval prior to issuance
of building permits . "
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' Professional Building Parking Improvements
February 15 , 1989
Page 3
PLANNING COMMISSION ACTION
The Planning Commission recommended approval of the site plan for
the parking area on the north side of the parking lot as part of
the site plan review for the Chanhassen Professional Building
subject to the conditions recommended with the addition of a
third condition as follows :
' 3 . Traffic engineering should review sidewalk location on the
east portion of the parking lot for safety with the possibi-
lity of realigning that sidewalk, adding stop signs or speed
bumps.
' Batzli raised a concern with the traffic and the allowing of the
right-in/right-out only access on the eastern portion of West
' 78th Street. His concern was that this access would encourage
the use of "U" turns on West 78th Street to access the site. The
right-in/right-out only facilitates traffic movements westbound
' won West 78th Street and eastbound is not being provided the same
equal access.
The motion was approved on a 3 to 1 vote.
CITY COUNCIL RECOMMENDATION
' Staff recommends the City Council adopt the following motion:
"The City Council approves Site Plans for the parking area of the
north side public parking lot as part of the site plan review of
the Chanhassen Professional Building #88-17 based on the plans
stamped "Received February 8 , 1989" and subject to the following
conditions:
U1. Platting the area.
' 2. Submittal of final facia, signage and exterior building
lighting for Planning Commission approval prior to issuance
of building permits.
3 . Traffic engineering should review sidewalk location on the
east portion of the parking lot for safety with the possibi-
lity of realigning that sidewalk, adding stop signs or speed
Ubumps . "
ATTACHMENTS
1. Site plans for parking area dated February 8 , 1989 .
2 . Planning Commission dated February 15 , 1989 .
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Planning Commission Meeting II February 15 , 1989 - Page 20
people. If we really gave them the wrong direction , I think we've got to I
look at it a lot different and maybe the City has to suffer the
consequence . I 'd like to understand , see what the DNR is going to
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recommend and then have our applicans look at it and submit some type of
schedule and I think at that time the Colonial Grove people should be part
of this.
IIWildermuth: Second .
Headla moved , Wildermuth seconded to table action on Wetland Alteration II
Permit #88-13 so staff can research what happened at the City level. To
find out what DNR is going to recommend and then that the applicants I
submit a schedule, which the Colonial Grove people should be included
with. All voted in favor of the motion to table and the motion carried .
Conrad: Steve, when do you think this will come back? Any idea? A II
couple of weeks?
Hanson: I doubt it. I don' t believe I ' ll have a response from DNR in II
that period of time first of all . Secondly, I 'm not sure what type of
problems I 'm run into trying to research it because I think I 'm going to
have to do some of that by phone calls with previous staff because I don' t II
believe there ' s anything in the file.
REQUEST FOR SITE PLAN APPROVAL FOR PARKING AND SITE IMPROVEMENTS, ON I
PROPERTY ZONED CBD, CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT AND LOCATED JUST EAST OF 480
WEST 78TH STREET, CHANHASSEN PROFESSIONAL BUIDLING - PHASE I, ARVID ELNESS II
ARCHITECTS , INC.
Steve Hanson presented the staff report.
Conrad: Brad, what do you think? II
Brad Johnson: We' ve given them some modifications that are minor , from
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our point of view. You' ve got to remember , this is being designed by the
City for us. That' s why he does the presentation.
Conrad: You can be critical now. I
Brad Johnson: I think it will work fine. He' s gotten our comments. It
looks like most of them have been put in there. Like I said, it ' s pretty �'
close to what we were requiring . In fact , the traffic guys have to look
at it . . . You should note that we have taken 15 feet off the back of the
south side of the apartment building and put it into the parking lot.
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That has been done as part of your previous approval of the site plan for
the apartment building . That' s why this original sidewalk had wound
around here. It was getting too close to the rooms. You know, for a
public walk right next to somebody' s bedroom is not a good idea so it was
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pulled over to the right. We' re really excited about this whole project
because it just has a real nice look to it . The way it all comes
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Planning Commission Meeting
February 15, 1989 - Page 21
together , assuming we get it all done, it will be. . . This is 450 feet
long. Will really take care of that thing. Because it' s been pulled
' forward , it will not obstruct. We' ve still got a lot of open space even
though something ' s . . .right in the path. . . It will work out real good .
We' re happy. Good acceptance by the tenants and the people like that . We
' hope to sometime during March getting a permit .
Batzli : I guess I had one question. Why are we putting the one right-in/
right-out entrance right by that intersection? The clock tower
' intersection. Does there need to be an entrance there?
Hanson: On one of the plans in your, it' s the second plan in, it shows
' the overall improvements . Right in that particular location there' s a
median that comes back. Right now if you drive out there, the curb cut is
up is about right in here and you can make the left hand turn around that
median and get in.
Batzli : I guess my question is , why do we have any entrance there right
at that intersection?
Y ght
Hanson : I know that that' s been in there from day one on the plans .
' Brad Johnson: At one time it was thought that they would remove it but if
you look at , if you look hard enough at it , you really don ' t want to run
all of your traffic through this parking lot to go to the clinic so the
tenants required that there be an entrance here. So that their customers
' can get in and go into the area. It will be probably more of a right in
then a right out but it really makes , if you look at it without this , this
is going to be a major roadway and it wasn ' t designed to be that.
Batzli : Wouldn ' t they go in in that underpass there in the middle of the
building?
' Brad Johnson: The way the clinic is set up, this entrance here will
probably go, people come down, it will be serviced, if you' re coming this
way, the human element is never one to backtrack. The clinic is on this
I end of the building so people coming along and want to go into the clinic
and they' re going to occupy this end , possibly will go up in this . People
that are going to use this portion will come in here. People that are
Igoing in there will probably come in here.
Batzli : But your argument doesn' t buy anything with me because you ' re
assuming everybody is coming from the east and if you look at from the
I west, you' re going to have the same problem with people using the parking
lot to get all the way to the other end of the building .
IBrad Johnson: They can' t turn left here.
Batzli : I know that. They' re going to turn in at your full access and go
I all the way down.
Brad Johnson : Here?
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Planning Commission Meeting
February 15, 1989 - Page 22
Batzli : Yes . ,
Brad Johnson : Yes . '
Batzli : Then why bother in one case to let them zoom all the way down but
from the other direction suddenly it' s a big issue and you got to put in
another entrance? Just a question.
Brad Johnson : And the answer is , we looked at it the other way and we
felt that we were putting too much pressure right in there. It' s a right
turn, left turn here to get into here. This way it' s just a right turn
in.
Batzli : To me it defies logic but if there' s a logical explanation for
it, fine.
Brad Johnson : And I think -what we' ve done is , the danger has been the
left turn in. That' s where I see the problem is the left turn into that.
Batzli : I guess from what I see is we' re going to really encourage a lot
of U turns right in the downtown drag here, up and down our city. A lot
of U turns all over the place with a lot of the way we' re designing this
personally. If human nature is to go up to where you want to turn in, I
can just picture people coming up here and snaking all over the place
making U turns and everything else. If that ' s really what human nature
says .
Conrad : Where' s the U turn being made?
Batzli : We ' re right-in/right-out everywhere and I can just picture people
coming up here to the full change intersection and taking a U turn back
around and everything else. I guess I don ' t see this as being well
thought out at all . If their argument is that we need a right turn in at
the clock tower because you don' t want people racing all the way down
here, then what ' s the difference of people coming from the west? They' re
going to zoom all the way down here unless they come up and take some sort
of U turn up in this area . 1
Conrad : And Brad would say, yes , we haven ' t solved it for the west but we
solved it for the east.
Batzli : That ' s not a solution.
Brad Johnson : Our problem with traffic is this movement. Downtown. +'
You' ve got a stop sign here. People are coming up here with a stop and
they have to go through this intersection and come around and come back.
Batzli : I gues I 'm just not convinced that you ' re not going to have a lot
of traffic from the south and west and I don' t see the problem has been
solved in any way for those two directions . You' ve solved people coming
from the east on that one right-in turn but you haven ' t solved other
problems . I 'm not a traffic expert. I 'm just saying, I see one thing
solved and you' ve got 2 or 3 problems here that we' ve saying , well , we
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II Planning Commission Meeting
February 15, 1989 - Page 23
' solved one.
' Conrad : But traffic goes through the arch doesn ' t it?
Batzli : From this direction you ' re going to be coming back. Their
argument for having this is that you don ' t want people to come zooming
through this area. Their going to come zooming through this area to get
down to this then .
' Conrad : But they could go through the arch too if they want?
Batzli : No, they can' t because. . .
' Conrad : Oh, we' ve got the right-out . Okay.
Batzli : And if they' re coming up from this direction, they' re going to
have to go all the way- around and zoom through or , I don ' t see it being
solved at all. Maybe there' s not a solution. I 'm not trying to say that
I 'm the expert but I 'm raising the issue.
' Wildermuth: Maybe a better answer is to take that whole median out of
there entirely.
' Batzli : I think that ' s dangerous . I agree that that should be in there
if they' re going to have an entrance right there because I wouldn' t want
' to see people cutting in front there.
Wildermuth: There' s just one thing that bothers me when I look at this
and that is , if we ever want to widened West 78th Street, which I think
' should happen at some point , maybe not in the next 6 months or maybe not
in the next 18 months but it probably ought to happen at some point , these
buildings that are very close to the street are really going to limit our
' options .
Brad Johnson : We' ve added 11 feet to it. That was one of the
recommendations from the very beginning. What ' s happened is that we ' ve
I had to mve everything back and that' s what they' re doing back here. The
buildingo's been shifted back. . .
Wildermuth: So that ' s been kind of taken into consideration?
Brad Johnson: We cut back our landscaping. If you look at the previous
plan , we had more landscaping back here and more space here but that ' s all ,
gone because we moved the building back.
Emmings : I ' ve got a couple of things. There are design standards having
I to do with the width of parking spaces and how much back up space you' ve
got and all that, does this plan meet all of those kinds of standards?
' Hanson: Yes .
Wildermuth : Including radius ' around these pylons at the end of the rows?
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Planning Commission Meeting
February 15, 1989 - Page 24
Hanson : I think before we said that there may be a problem because we
were concerned with that distance and this meets what the standards are .
Those spaces are 9 x 18 as far as the space of the parking spaces. '
Emmings: Those are standard parking spaces? They haven' t been trimmed
down to meet the site or anything like that?
Hanson: No.
Emmings: And the number of spaces meets our ordinance and terms for the
functioning?
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Hanson: Yes . 1
Emmings: I noticed down on the right hand corner , I 'm looking at sheet 2,
and it' s on some of the other ones , there' s a place here that I want to go
as soon as the meeting-' s over . It looks like it' s called a Reality
Office. I ' n curious what that might be. I think we could all use some.
Is that your office?
Brad Johnson : I don ' t know what you ' re referring to? Oh , that ' s
Klingelhutz' .
Wildermuth : That ' s Klingelhutz ' realty office. '
Emmings: Well , it says reality.
Brad Johnson : Like I said , we didn ' t do the plan .
Emmings: I wasn' t being critical . I 'm kind of interested . '
Conrad : Anything else? A motion.
Headla : I 'd like to make a motion that we approve it but I ' ve got so much II
reservation on that sidewalk, I don' t know how to work that in.
Conrad : What do you think about Steve' s, Steve is talking about filling '
in the balance of that little triangle there.
Headla : I 'm so scared , I think that sidewalk ' s going to have a lot of
traffic and I can just see kids on small bicycles and I can see
skateboards going through there.
Emmings: Won' t there be stop signs? 11
Headla : That ' s the kind of thing , either speed bumps or stop signs and
then I think that' s adequate control but isn' t this the time where we
should at least ask the engineers to look at that?
Conrad: That' s a good comment. The snow plow people will love that but
that' s. . .
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Planning Commission Meeting
February 15 , 1989 - Page 25
Headla : That ' s why I hesitated on the speed bump.ump. To me a stop sign is a
logical thing to do but how they talked about a right-in and then turning.
You come in and then all of a sudden you' re stopping again . I 'm not a
traffic person. I don' t know what makes sense there.
' Emmings: I think people ought to be moving slow in that parking lot
anyway and I think stop signs are a big inconvenience and that' s fine with
me.
' Headla : I ' ve seen so many accidents in parking lots and they' re needless
and it' s due to speeding. I 'm going to make a motion we approve this
concept plan but make a recommendation that the traffic engineers take
another look on the safety of that sidewalk as it goes through the parking
lot.
Emmings: How about the other conditions?
Headla: Yes . And the other conditions submitted by the staff .
Emmings : I ' ll second that .
Headla moved , Emmings seconded that the Planning Commission recommend
approval of Site Plans for the parking area of the north side public
parking lot as part of the site plan review of the Chanhassen Professional
Building #88-17 based on the plans stampted "Received February 8 , 1989"
' and subject to the following conditions :
1. Platting the area .
2. Submittal of final facia , signage and exterior building lighting for
Planning Commission approval prior to issuance of building permits .
' 3. That the traffic engineers take another look on the safety of the
sidewalk as it goes through the parking lot.
II All voted in favor except Batzli who opposed and the motion carried with a
vote of 5 to 1.
Batzli : I think that they should look more at what they' re doind with the
traffic around that area. Not that I 'm against the plan in general .
IConrad : But you' re concerned with the traffic movement from the west .
Batzli : From the west and south . I don' t think that, if it' s good enough
I to do in one direction, what are they doing with the other direction and I
don' t know that they' ve really thought about all that.
' Emmings: What do you mean by from the south?
Batzli : Coming up TH 101 here.
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Planning Commission Meeting
February 15, 1989 - Page 26
Emmings : But then won' t they have the right-in at the archway?
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Batzli : Yes . '
Emmings : Isn ' t that okay?
Batzli : I don ' t know. They've got to get back out and it depends on
where they' re trying to go. If you guys are trying to slow down traffic
in the parking lot , I don' t think you ' re going to do it by putting in a
stop sign. If you 've ever been at 7 Hi or Cub Foods on a busy shopping
day, nobody stops at those. They glide right through almost running over
and creating havoc. If you' re actually trying to get people where
they' re trying to go with entrances and exits , I don ' t think this plan II does it. That' s why I 'm just saying, I 'm going to dissent from the motion
and say, I don' t think that was looked at .
Conrad: Do you see an- alternative that' s readily. . . '
Batzli : No . That' s not my job as I think you ' ve once said, or somebody
said it. I 'm not a traffic engineer but from the answers I got, I don' t
think it was looked at a whole lot .
APPROVAL OF MINUTES : Batzli moved , Elison seconded to approve the Minutes II
of the Planning Commission meeting dated February 1, 1989 as presented .
All voted in favor except Wi.ldermuth who abstained and the motion carried .
ORGANIZATIONAL ITEMS.
ELECT CHAIR AND VICE-CHAIR FOR 1989 . ,
Emmings : My idea and I mentioned it to some people already, but first of
all I 'd like to nominate Ladd for Chairman.
Wildermuth: And I ' ll second that .
Emmings: The primary reason I think Ladd ought to be chairman is that he
has more patience here and it kind of makes me kind of irritated sometimes
but I think it' s important as far as . . . '
Elison : Letting everybody speak out .
Emmings: He does such a good job of handling the public hearings and
giving everybody I think a feeling that they have had an opportunity to be
heard and he explains the procedures all so well . There may be other
people who can do the same job but I don ' t know. I know that Ladd can .
I 've chaired a few meetings and it' s a lot of strain. It' s a little extra
strain . It' s a lot easier to sit out here on the sidelines and take pot
shots . And for that reason, I think maybe as far as the vice chair goes,
maybe Ladd wants to let the vice-chair chair some meetings just so that he
can get out on the sidelines . The one thing we miss by having Ladd in
chair is getting his comments earlier in the decision making process . A