8. Review Lake Lucy Road Trail/Parking issue 1
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CITY of
r CHANHASSEN
' 690 COULTER DRIVE • P.O. BOX 147 • CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
Actbri by CRY MTP,»ts°,^f�o�
MEMORANDUM
6;ejeCtnt
' TO: Don Ashworth, City ManagerLt _
bate Su nrtted h Ccmmis503
FROM: Gary Warren, City Engineer
DATE: February 22 , 1989 Date :■rcr
SUBJ: Review Lake Lucy Road Trail/Parking Issue
File No. 88-25
' At the February 13 , 1989 City Council meeting, staff was directed
to prepare a "mini" feasibility study to address the possibility
of providing off-street parking pads at selected locations along
Lake Lucy Road to address the no parking difficulties encountered
by select properties along Lake Lucy Road, in particular the
Brian Tichy property located at 1471 Lake Lucy Road. The
attached report prepared by Westwood Professional Services has
reviewed this issue.
Alternative 3 of the report is the new alternative researched,
' which deals with the construction of an off-street parking pad in
front of the Tichy property. The off-street pad could be
constructed to accommodate two vehicles at an estimated cost of
' $2 , 600 .00 , exclusive of any property/easement acquisition. This
is a similar approach to that utilized in the City of Minnetonka
in areas where topography and parking restrictions limit access
to residential properties. While this parking pad area would not
' be able to accommodate -the parking demand normally associated
with a residential party, this would address the concerns of the
Tichys as it relates to inclement weather access.
As noted in the report, Brian Tichy favors Alternate 2 -
construction of the off-street trail . Our field review and
discussions with several other property owners in the area
' concluded that this problem is unique to the Tichy property and
that the remaining properties along Lake Lucy Road have access
alternatives available to them such that this construction would
' not be required.
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Don Ashworth
February 22 , 1989
Page 2 ,
The report also reviews the off-road trail option to better
define the likelihood of implementation . As will be remembered, ,
removal of one bike path from Lake Lucy Road would result in a
30-foot road section. This road section is 4 feet deficient in
width from the State Aid standards published by MnDOT for accom-
modating one-side, on-street parking. It is unknown how MnDOT
would react to this request until a formal variance is applied
for.
As reviewed at the previous City Council meeting, elimination of
both on-street bike paths would provide a 36-foot road width
which would allow the City to establish one-side parking on Lake
Lucy Road without the need for any variance.
Attached is a copy of the Park and Recreation minutes from the
February 14 , 1989 meeting where this item was discussed. No
action was taken by the Park and Recreation Commission .
This is the time in the staff report where a recommendation is '
normally given. Since this decision goes beyond pure engineering
consideration, I find it difficult and perhaps out of place to
recommend an alternative. What is important is that a decision
needs to be made Monday night if construction is to be included
with the trunk watermain project.
Attachments ,
1 . February 13 , 1989 City Council minutes ( see pages 25 through
46 of this agenda packet) . ,
2 . February 14 , 1989 Park and Recreation Commission minutes.
3 . Report from Westwood Professional Services dated February 23, 1989 .
cc : Dick Koppy, Westwood
Brian Tichy, 1471 Lake Lucy Road
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'' Park and Rec Commission Meeting
February 14 , 1989 - Page 5
very strongly in favor of this . Particularly this parcel . . .
F0yt Y p: Mary, since you brought up Lake Lucy Road. I don' t know if you
attended the Council meeting last night but they discussed taking the
trails off of Lake Lucy Road and I 'd just like to say, if any of you live
II out there, you might want to let the Council know if you don ' t agree with
what they' re doing or if you agree with it. They' ll be discussing it
again in two weeks .
Tom Steinkamp: Taking the trail off?
Boyt: Yes, and changing it to a parking area.
IISteinkamp: Who would want to park along Lake Lucy Road?
II Boyt : The people who live on Lake Lucy Road.
Steinkamp: They all have half mile driveways.
II Mark Cordell : They' re talking about putting the bike trails up on top of
where they' re putting the water lines. Having a bike trail off the road
which I think would be an advantage because most people don' t ride on bike
trails .
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Boyt : I don ' t think that was the consensus of the Council that they would
take off the on road and put an off road. I think just take it off
I wasit. I think it would be helpful to talk to them because any park
that goes into this area is going to be accessed by Lake Lucy Road and
it' s going to be pretty dangerous if there ' s no trail out there.
ISietsema: The Council ' s trying to be very receptive to what the residents
of the City want and there are people that have come that have expressed a
I need to park on the road and not necessarily a need for the trail . They
need to hear if there is a need for a trail . If you want it, then you
should probably let them know.
I Hasek: I think it would also be helpful , our Minutes are verbatim too so
if you do have a comment on that, now wouldn' t be a bad time to get it
into the record .
IResident: . . .parking along side the road?
I Boyt: No, they' re talking about taking it off both sides .
Mady: The problem, the way trail is , because it ' s on road , ou can not
of
have a bike trail with bike traffic going the opposite direction of the
I car traffic. Bikes have to travel the same direction as traffic so you
can not just move the trail to just one side of the street legally. We
can' t do that.
IWatson: Unless it' s off.
Mady: Unless it' s off road .
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting ,r
February 14 , 1989 - Page 6
Schroers : I would like to officially comment on that. That is currently
my jogging route and I don' t want to jog in traffic. I definitely want a
trail on the side of Lake Lucy.
Sietsema : You' re right. There was talk about putting an off street trail
on top of the trunk watermain and that is an option and then they could
have had off street trail with an on street trail on the north side for
bikes and then parking on the south side. But the City Council has not
heard that there' s a need for a trail there at all . The people that have
lived, that have been coming to the meetings have expressed that there is
no need . The people aren ' t using it and there isn ' t a need for a trail so
if your views are different than that, they need to hear that because they II
want to be responsive to the residents.
Tom Steinkamp: Someone should go out there on an evening in the summer
and look at all the poeple--walking up and down that road. I guess I 'd
better make some formal comments rather than sitting back there. First of
all , as far as the parkland is concerned .
Mady: Who are you? ,
Tom Steinkamp: Tom Steinkamp. 1771 Pheasant Circle. First of all , as
far as the parkland is concerned, I guess I would most favor, or mostly C,
the Carrico property as well . I think A might be a good piece of property
for parkland but I think it ' s kind of out of the area where I 'm concerned
about and I think if you look at it , just look at the population of the
area, it looks like most of it quite a bit farther north and closer to C
so I would favor C. I know that you mentioned , just skimmed over it but I
think that there is a legitimate access from, is it Wood Duck that' s into
that Carrico property so as that gets developed more, so we wouldn' t have
a problem with people cutting through people' s yard as those homes get
built in there. In talking about the trail along Lake Lucy Road, I guess II I would strongly object to removing the trail. I guess if we were looking
at an alternative for a trail along Lake Lucy Road, I 'd be interested in
hearing what that is but abolish a trail on Lake Lucy Road to me would be
foolish. That road was 15 feet wide 2 years ago and nobody could park on
it. Why all of a sudden do people need to park on it now? I don' t
understand . That it ' s a nice wide road . You go out there in the evening
in the summertime and you meet dozens of people along Lake Lucy Road. As
Curry Farms gets built up later this fall , we saw more and more people
walking on Lake Lucy Road. I know my wife walks to CR 17 every night on
Lake Lucy Road so I think that it' s important to keep a trail of some sort
there on Lake Lucy Road. If it' s acceptable, if there' s the possibility
of putting it off the road , that 'd be fine with me but to abolish it or
get rid of it completely, I 'd be strongly against that.
Hasek: Is it safe to say that your neighbors would be strongly against
it?
Tom Steinkamp: Oh yes . They' ll hear about it .
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting
February 14 , 1989 - Page 7
Hasek : If you can ' t make it to these meetings , you n s can contact
g Y Council by
letter too. Or the City or phone.
Tom Steinkamp: Has there been ongoing talk about this?
' Mady: They discussed it at the meeting last night. There was a motion
made to have it come back to Park and Rec for review and Council voted
against having the Park and Rec Commission review it. They thought they
could handle it on their own at the Council meetings . I believe it ' s a
very important issue that I think you need to. . .
Si.etsema: This is the second time it' s been discussed at the Council
level. Last night was. It was brought up and they discussed it so this
is the second discussion of it.
Mady: Actually, we' re not even supposed to be discussing it tonight .
' That was the impression I got from the Council but it' s important
enough. . .
Hasek: We are the Commission and I don ' t think that unless Council shows
up here that they can really tell us what we can and can not talk about as
long as it' s related to Park and Recreation.
Tom Steinkamp: I would think that it should be you the ones talking about
it instead of them.
Joe Schimml : I 'm Joe Schimml , 1751 Pheasant Circle and located right
here. I will heartily agree with, I chose C as the option for the park is
concerned . I think it' s necessary, it has to be where the people are and
' just in Pheasant Hill , right here, there are 87 lots. If you look at the
families out there, there are probably 2. 4 or 2. 8 kids per family.
' Boyt: Little kids too.
Joe Schimml : Little kids. Our youngest is 23 so I don' t care if there ' s
a park there or not but I think it' s important for the neighbors to have a
' ' park there. On the Lake Lucy Road , I can ' t imagine sound judgment going
into taking both of the paths off. If there' s an alternative to putting
them on the side of the road , I can see that but it is basically going to
' get busier isn' t it so certainly I 'd like to go on record as saying we do
need , at the least, a trail along Lake Lucy Road .
Tom Steinkamp: The traffic gets going pretty good now that you ' ve made
that nice road . The traffic gets going pretty quick on that road too. I
think it' s important to have something set aside for people for that
reason too because it would be quite dangerous without it.
' Boyt: Well , and as the park at Curry Farms is developed too. . .park area .
' Mady: One of the things I tried to bring to the attention of the Council
last night in the discussion, the residents who were in attendance
indicated there was a lot of _traffic there and I mentioned to the Council
that as we are developing Curry Farms park in the next couple years ,
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting
February 14, 1989 - Page 8
I informed them that the Commission is aggresively seeking parkland in the
Pheasant Hills area. That we now have reasons for people going from one
end of Lake Lucy Road to the other end . Those things there, people start
to move and there isn' t anything there right now does not mean 5 years
from now it' s not going to be a great need . We need to keep the future in
mind when we do these things . We can' t just do what' s politically
expediate today and find out that we made a big mistake 2-3 years down the
road. Anything that we can do to help condemn it , just let us know.
Hasek: I think one other thing about the trail that is currently placed '
along Lake Lucy Road is that it' s not only there for the people that abut
the property and use it from the park to wherever . It' s part of a much
larger system that' s actually put in place and was thought about being in II place for once again, all the residents of the city as opposed to just the
people that abut the property and that ' s a concern often time forgotten.
I think it' s important that it' s kept in mind . This body is here to
represent all of the people- of the City, not just the abutting property
owners.
Tom Steinkamp: When I looked at your trail system that was voted on at
the last referendum, that ' s one thing I looked at. How do I sit in on
this whole trail program? If the trails are all going to be on the other
side of the City, well I 'm not going to vote for it but it looked to me
like you people did a good job of getting trails throughout the city and
part of that trail is that trail on Lake Lucy and how does that connect me
now to Lake Ann? I looked and I specifically looked and I can ride a bike
on a trail from my house to Lake Ann once the trail system gets in and
that ' s one of the reasons I voted for the trail system. Not you ' re taking
away that link if they do indeed do that.
Boyt : And it is a link. It ' s part of the whole system. It' s not just
one road.
Mary Cordell : I just want to add too . I didn ' t really comment on the
trail system when it was up there but. . .
Mady: You are who again? '
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Mary Cordell : Mary Cordell and I live on Lake Lucy Lane but our property
is also on Lake Lucy Road. To me personally the parking is not an issue
but I definitely would be in favor of an off street bike path because I
think it would be safer. The road is getting so busy that I probably
won' t let my kids bike on there until they' re 12. I don' t know. Which is
10 years from now. I would definitely favor putting in an off street 11
walking , biking trail , whatever , but I would not want to see the trail
abolished by any means. If it has to stay on street, I guess on street is
okay although I do notice that a lot of the bikers don ' t really bike in
the trail because of the gravel runoff and that they bike in the road .
Sietsema: That should be slowing down once construction slows down in
that area too.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting
February 14 , 1989 - Page 9
Mary Cordell : Yes , but if it was off street , that 'd be nice.
We moved
here from Minneapolis and the bike trail system around the lakes and that
was wonderful and very safe .
Mady: I ' ll defend Don at this point because Don you ' ll at least be able
to keep it for the next two weeks without Don's help it wouldn' t even have
been there.
Hasek : Keep it? What do you mean?
Mady: Remove it last night.
Hasek: Somebody made that motion?
Mady: Ursula .
Hasek: You may want to write a letter or contact Ursula too .
Mady: It' s still there. Don' s got some ideas on how we can keep it there
so thank you both .
Tom Steinkamp: You mean without any notice to any of the concerned
' people, I can come in here and speak my piece and if I put on a good
enough speech , I can get something passed without somebody taking a look
at it?
' Boyt : Not at this level . We just recommend . I don ' t know about the
Council .
' Tom Steinkamp: But that ' s what happened at City Council last night .
Boyt: Almost.
Mady: Any other comments on the Carrico property? Lori , have you gotten
any indications from Carrico ' s what their estimate of the park is going to
be?
Sietsema: Their appraisal is not completed because their appraiser has
been ill. He had some preliminary numbers . I was supposed to meet with
1 him today and I was ill but what he said is he was willing to sell to the
City but not for a mere $55, 000. 00. He felt the property was worth
$225, 000. 00 and he has a purchase agreement to that affect and that' s how
t much he would be asking for the property so I have a hunch that ' s based
definitely on water and sewer being available to the property. He can not
get , the way I understand it, he can not get water and sewer without the
support of the City and if the City should decide that they want the
' property, I don' t see us supporting him pursuing water and sewer. Getting
approval from the Met Council . Therefore, the property would be worth as
a rural piece. I don' t know if he would ever agree to that. That' s where
the Attorney comes in and negotiations start and if we can' t come to
terms , then we'd have to go through the condemnation process .
Mady: Is there any other discussion?
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1 :)‘0. ?1>ijit,
I Lake Lucy Road
Parking/ Bike Route Proposal
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8' Parking side
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I Changes Proposed:
1 1. Remove No Parking Signs on South Side of Street
1 2. Move Center Stripe 2' North
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I This Proposal . . .
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• Meets MSA guidelines
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• Is modeled after the plan used by the
I Hopkins/Minnetonka park and
recreation department
I • Provides needed g
p arkin on one side
I • Provides a multiple use route for . . .
I — biking
— horseback riding
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— walking
I - etc.
I • accommodates all residents in the area
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