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F Ad signs on ball fields F MEMORANDUM CITY OF CHANHASSEN TO: Todd Gerhardt, City Manager 7700 Markel Boolevard POBox 147 Chanhassen, MN55317 FROM: Todd Hoffman, Park & Recreation Director ~kç,. DATE: June 6, 2005 Administration Phone: 952.127,1100 Fax: 952.227.1110 SUBJ: Consider Proposals from the Chanhassen Athletic Association for the Placement of Advertising Signs on Ball Fields and Fences and the Donation of Scoreboards Building Inspections Phone 952.227.IIBO Fax 952.127.1190 Engineering Phone: 952.127.1160 Fax: 952.127.1170 The Park and Recreation Commission reviewed these proposals on May 24, 2005. The Commission voted 4 to 2 to accept the Association's proposal to display advertising signs on select ball field fences. (Some modifications were made to the language in the proposed agreement.) No action was taken on the proposed donation of scoreboards due the lack of specific product information available at the time. Minutes from the Park and Recreation Commission at which these items were discussed are attached. I have invited Todd Neils, Vice-President of the CAA to attend the June 13 City Council work session. Finance Phone: 952.127.1140 Fax: 952.227.1110 Park & Recreation Phone 952.227.1120 Fax: 952.227.1110 RecrealionCenter 2310 Coulter Boolevard Phone 952.227.1400 Fax: 952.127.1404 c: Todd Neils, CAA Vice-President Planning & Natu..1 Resources Phone 952.127.1130 Fax 952.227.1110 Public Works 1591 Park Road Phone 952.127.1300 Fax: 952.127.1310 Senior Center Phone: 952.127.1125 Fax: 952.227.1110 WebSile www.cì.chanhassen.mn.us The City of Chanhassen . A growing community with clean lakes, quality schools, a charming downtown, thriving businesses, winding trails, and beau!ijul parks. A great piace to live, work, and play 2005 PROPOSAL AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE CITY OF CHANHASSEN AND THE CHANHASSEN ATHLETIC ASSOCIATION GOVERNING THE PROVISION OF DEDICATED ADVERTISING SIGNAGE AND SCOREBOARD SIGNAGE 1. Field and scoreboard signage shall be placed on the outfield and/or foul fences of ball fields #1, #2, and #3 at Lake Ann Park and ball field #1 Bandimere Park by CAA. 2, For each advertisement sign, the City shall receive a $200 payment for the first year, and $200 in payment every subsequent year. Additionally, the City will receive $400 in payment for each sign on a scoreboard and $400 in payment every subsequent year. 3. Signs shall be of uniform size and color scheme. 4. Only commercial signage; excluding alcohol, tobacco and sexually-oriented businesses; is allowed, 5, Signs shall be allowed to be in place from April through October. 6, Sponsorship, promotion, and management of the program shall be the sole responsibility of the CAA 7. The signs shall be maintained during the season and stored during the off-season by the CAA. 8. Any damage to the park property caused by the sign program shall be paid for by the CAA. 9, Payments shall be made to the City on July I and November 1 of each year, 10, This agreement expires on December 31, 2008 and is renewable upon consent by each party, II. If this agreement is not renewed, the Chanhassen Athletic Association will no longer be held responsible for subsequent payments to the City, 12, All money collected shall be appropriated for capital improvements to City ball fields including construction of scoreboards, dugouts, and additional lighting standards. Improvements will only be initiated when sufficient funds have been collected and with input from the CAA CHANHASSEN ATHLETIC ASSOCIATION CITY OF CHANHASSEN By President By Tom Furlong, Mayor By Administrator By Todd Gerhardt, City Manager Date Date CITY OF CHANllASSEN 7700 Ma~et Boulevard PO Box 147 Chanhassen, MN 55317 Admlnlsl..llon Phone: 952.127.1100 Fax: 952.227.1110 Building Inspections Phone: 952.227.1180 Fax: 952.227.1190 Engineering Phone: 952.227.1160 Fax: 952.227.1170 Finance Phone: 952.227,1140 Fax: 952.227.1110 Park & Recreation Phone: 952.227.1120 Fax: 952.227.1110 ReCleationCenler 2310 Coulter Boulevard Phone: 952,227.1400 Fax: 952.227.1404 Planning & Natu.., Resources Phone: 952.227.1130 Fax: 952.227,1110 Public Works 1591 Park Road Phone: 952.127.1300 Fax: 952,227.1310 Senior Center Phone: 952.227.1125 Fax: 952.227.1110 Web Site IW/W,ci,chanhassoo.mn.us õ - MEMORANDUM TO: Park & Recreation Commission FROM: 74 Todd Hoffman, Park & Recreation Director DATE: May 17, 2005 SUBJ: Amended Proposal from Chanhassen Athletic Association Concerning Advertising Signage On March 22, 2005, the Chanhassen Athletic Association submitted a proposal to the city regarding a variety of issues, Staff members representing all affected departments met to review the proposals. Upon completion of our review, I forwarded a written response to Mr. Todd Neils, Vice President of CAA. Mr. Neils subsequently modified their proposal concerni advertising signage and scoreboard signage, Staff met again to review this s d proposal and responded by making additional modifications to osal. The copy labeled "2005 Proposal" (attached) represents the the proposal that staff can so, ort. The City of Chanhassen . A growing community with clean lakes, quality schools, a channing downtOWTl, thriving businesses, winding trails, and beaulilul parl<s, A great place to live, work, and play. O,IPARK\TH\caa amended proposal.doc FORMAL PROPOSAL PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION MARCH 22Dd, 2005 CAA ReauestIResDonsibiIitv: I. Post advertising signage on select baseball and softball fields to raise funds for capital improvements (based on previous recommendation in 2000, revised 2005). 2, Begin construction of capital improvements, which will include, but not be limited to scoreboards, dugouts and additional lighting standards, This will be legged in over a several year period, A. Year I will include the following sites for scoreboards allotment based on Chanhassen Athletic Association priority schedule: Lake Ann #2, #3 Bluff Creek #3 City Center #3 Lake Ann #1 Bluff Creek #4 City Center #4 Bluff Creek #1 Bluff Creek #5 Bandimere # I B. Year I lighting standards: Lake Ann #2, #3 The Chanhassen Little League would like to work in concert with the City of Chanhassen to form a joint task force which would be comprised of City staff, CAA members, and parents to come-up with viable funding solutions for lighting on all non-residential and non- school district fields in the Chanhassen community. These fields would include Lake Ann #1, #3 and all City owned fields at Bluff Creek Elementary. Some possible solutions proposed: I. $5/player fee dedicated to lighting standards 2. Benefactor or Donor 3. General Electric/Caterpillar Rental two-month lease for lighting (temporary solution) C. Year 1 dugouts: Lake Ann #1, #2 or #3 3, Work with City to brace for future growth, We are asking the Park and Recreation Commission to approve the following: I. Construction of advertising signage!scoreboards by Chanhassen Little League based on 2000 agreement (revised 2005) to fund capital improvements detailed previously. 2, Direct staff to submit proposal about placement of the signageJscoreboard location on previously noted fields so construction may begin, The Chanhassen Little League would request submission by April15tb so construction may begin, 3, Approve dugout construction on select fields with staff and Planning Commission approval of preferred material. Draft plans will be submitted upon approval and recommendation of material by next meeting, 4. Request assignment of Park and Recreation Department liaison to participate in a joint taskforce to develop funding solutions for lights. The Chanhassen Little League would like the committee to be formed by April with first draft recommendations submitted by June meeting. CITY OF CHANHASSEN 7700 Ma~el Boulevard PO Box 147 Chanhassen, MN 55317 Administration Phone: 952.127.1100 Fax: 952.227.1110 Building Inspections Phone: 952.127.1180 . Fax: 952.227.1190 Engineering Phone: 952.227.1160 Fax: 952.227,1170 Finance Phone: 952.227.1140 Fax: 952.227,1110 Part & Recreation Phone: 952.227.1120 Fax: 952.227.1110 Recrealiontenler 2310 CouRer Boulevard Phooe: 952.227,1400 Fax: 952.227.1404 Planning & Natu..1 Resources Phone: 952.227.1130 Fax: 952.227.1110 Public Worts 1591 Park Road Phone: 952.227.1300 Fax: 952.127.1310 Senior Center Phoo.952.227.1125 Fax: 952.127.1110 Web Sile www.ci.chanhassen.mn.1JS March 25, 2005 Mr. Todd Neils, Vice President Chanhassen Athletic Association 990 Saddle brook Curve Chanhassen, MN 5317 Dear Todd: Thank you for submitting your proposal to install advertising signage, scoreboards, dugouts and lighting at various athletic field venues throughout the City. The Chanhassen Athletic Association (CAA) has a tradition of providing a broad spectrum of athletic and social opportunities for area youth and their families. The City of Chanhassen is pleased to have the CAA operating within the Community and has enjoyed working with its many members and officers over the years. In reviewing your proposal, I assembled the following staff members: Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Superintendent,Josh Metzer, Planned, Greg Sticha, Finance Director and Todd Gerhardt, Cit anager. To provide clarity in our response I will address each item indiv' ¡y. 1. ~ ~ ~ ins· as an recomm Recreatio a public ameruy: assessment, they could install scoreboards, PIj,' scoreboards followedr-;. .. <ró'C:Ionatéthese amenities. Donations over $500 are subject to CityCounciJ approval. TIt, City of Chanbassen . A growing COIIlII1IJnity with clean lakes, quality schools, a channing downtown, thriving businesses, winding trails, and beautiful parts. A goat place to Jive, .o~, and play. MEMORANDUM TO: Scott Botcher, City Manager FROM: Todd Hoffman, Park & Recreation Director DATE: April 5, 2000 SUBJ: Advertising Signage Program, Chanhassen Athletic Association On March 27tb,the City Council was presented with a request made by the Chanhassen Athletic Association (CAA) to display advertising signs at Bandirnere Community Park. The intent of the program is to raise money for donation back to . the city, These proceeds would be targeted at improving park facilities utilized by local sporting associations. Upon conclusion of the City Council discussion that evening, staff was directed to complete the following: . 1. Hold a neighborhood meeting to disclose the Association's request and hear from residents residing adjacent to or near the Bandimere Park, 2, Prepare a draft policy governing advertising signage in city parks. 3. Prepare a draft agreement between the CAA and City of Chanhassen for the provision of advertising signage, The Park & Recreation Commission held a neighborhood meeting on Tuesday, April 4th at 7:30 p,m. Three residents, representing two households, spoke in opposition of the proposed sign program, Their belief was that the signs would cheapen the appearance of the park. After hearing from the neighbors, the majority of the commission still favored moving ahead with the program. As a compromise, Commissioner Karlovich proposed that the program be moved to Lake Ann Park, a location with no adjoining residential properties. The commission accepted tlùs proposal as a reasonable compromise. A copy of the proposed policy governing advertising signage in city parks and the proposed agreement between the CAA and City are attached. RECOMMENDATION At the conclusion of thèir discussion on the evening of April 4th, Commissioner Moes moved that the commission recommend the City Council approve the placement and sale of outdoor advertising signs at Lake Ann Community Park and an agreement between the CAA and City for the provision of said signs, Further, that the contract for the first year will expire on December 31, 2000, and that a public review of the program be held after the first of the year. Commissioner Howe seconded the motion. All members, with the exception of Karlovich, voted . in favor of the motion. The. motion passed 6-1. ~WIIw:rIisÎII""-- . ·,." April 20, 2000 Mr, Frank Scott, Administrator Chanhassen Athletic Association 2450 Island Drive, #124 Spring Park, MN 55384 Dear Frank: Enclosed is the agreement between the City of Chanhassen and the Chanhassen Athletic Association governing the provision of advertising signs. As you know, this was approved by the City Council at their April 10,2000 meeting. Please execute both copies and return one for our records. Good luck with the program. . Sincerely, Todd Hoffman Director of Park and Recreation TH:gmb, c: Scott Botcher, City Manager Park and Recreation Commission File: new RA fùe ~ AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE CITY OF CHANHASSEN AND THE CHANHASSEN ATHLETIC ASSOCIATION GOVERNING THE PROVISION OF ADVERTISING SIGNS . 1. Signage shall be placed on the outfield fences of ballfields #1 and #2 at Lake Ann Park. 2. Signs shall be of a uniform size and color scheme. 3. Signs shall be allowed to be in place from April through October. 4. Sponsorship, promotion, and management of the program shall be the sole responsibility of the CAA. ,5. The signs shall be maintained during the season and stored during the off-season by the CAA. 6. Any damage to the park property caused by the sign program shall be paid for by the CAA. . 7.. For each advertisement sign, the City shall receive $150 in payment for the fIrst year, and $300 in payment every subsequent year. 8. Payments shall be ma~ to the City on June 1 and November 1 of each year. 9. This contract expires on December 31,2000 and is renewable upon consent.by each party. CHANHASSEN ATHlETIC ASSOCIATION CITY OF CHANHASSEN By President By Nancy K. Mancino, Mayor By Administrator By Scott A. Botcher, City Manager Date Date I"'is I Ivol2lpark\th\caa&ciryagreemcoldoc 0" . PROPOSED CITY OF CHANHASSEN DEPARTMENT OF PARKS AND RECREATION 7700 MARKET BLVD PO BOX 147, CHANHASSEN, MN 55317 952-227-1100 A POLICY GOVERNING ADVERTISING IN OUTDOOR PARKS The intent of the City of Chanhassen is to generally not aJlow advertising in city parks except as outlined below, 1. 4' x 8' Panel Signage shaJl be aJlowed on the outfield backstops of fields #1 and #2 at Lake Arm Park. 2. This advertisement program shall be administered by the Chanhassen Athletic Association (CAA), 3. The CAA shaJl enter into a contract with the City of Chanhassen for the provision of this program. In the absence' of the CAA as a sponsor, the City reserves the right to enter into an agreement with another provider. 4, The signs shall be of a color which wiJI not inhibit the ability of players to see the play of the ball. 5. No political, religious, aJcohoI, tobacco or sexually oriented signage wiJI be allowed. 6. Proceeds from the program shaJI be used to improve local park facilities utilized by locaJ sporting associations as recommended by the Park and Recreation Commission, and approved by the City Council, g:\park\thlparkadvertising.doc CITY OF CHANllASSEN 7700 Market Boulevard PO Box 147 Chanhassen,MN55317 Adminlsùallon Phone: 952,22/,1100 Fax: 952.227.1110 Building Inspections Phone: 952.227.1180 Fax: 952,227.1190 Engineering Phone: 952,227.1160 Fax: 952,227,1170 Finance Phone: 952.227.1140 Fax: 952.227.1110 Park & Recreation Phone: 952.227.1120 Fax: 952.227,1110 Recreation Center 2310 Couner Boulevard Phone: 952,227,1400 Fax: 952,227.1404 Planning & Natu..' Resourcts Phone: 952.227.1130 Fax: 952,227,1110 Public Worts 1591Pa~ Roa<! Phone: 952.227,1300 Fax: 952.227.1310 Senior Center Phone: 952.227.1125 Fax: 952.22/,1110 Web SlIe WMV,ct.chanhassen.mn.us 4- MEMORANDUM TO: Park & Recreation Commission _vi Todd Hoffman, Park & Recreation Director 7¡v FROM: DATE: May 17,2005 SUBJ: Chanhassen Athletic Association Proposal to Donate and Install Scoreboards Attached please find a letter from Mr, Todd Neils, Vice President of the Chanhassen Athletic Association requesting that the City accept a donation, including installation of six manually operated scoreboards. Staff generally supports the acceptance of such donations, but in th sence of detailed information regarding the style, manufacturer, cons . on material, operation procedures, etc., is unable to provide the Commisso a recommendation concerning this offer. Mr. Neils has informed staf will present additional tails to the Commission on May 24th c: G:\PARK\TIl\caa scoreboard donation.doc The City of Chanhassen . A growing communlly with clean lakes, qualily schools, a chaß1ling downlown, thriving businesses, winding trails, and beauliful parks. A gæat p~ce 10 live, work, and play. Date: May 12, 2005 To: Todd Hoffman Park & Rec Director, City of Chanhassen From: Chanhassen Athletic Association little League Re: Scoreboards On behalf of the Chanhassen Athletic Association Little League Board of Directors, we're thrilled to be getting all the help we've received from you and your staff this year. Thank you, As we open regular season play this week, I think we had all hoped for better weather. The fields seem to be absorbing the water well though, and we're grateful that your crews have been able to get the fields in good shape for the season, Todd, a few months ago over lunch at Axel's, we conveyed to you and Jerry our vision for helping take the little League to the next level for our kids and families in the community. We're committed to making the Chanhassen little League a memorable experience for the kids in our community who choose to play baseball and softball. As the first stage of this renewed commitment and partnership with the City, the Chanhassen Athletic Association and little League is pleased to make a donation of six manually operated scoreboards to the City of Chanhassen Parks and Recreation Department. We're confident that our selection of scoreboards will be of sufficient quality to ensure many years of use to the citizens of Chanhassen. We recognize there are additional fields that will remain without scoreboards this year. Our board, coaches, and families would like to evaluate the success of these scoreboards this season to guide us in outfitting all the fields with scoreboards prior to next season. To accelerate the installation of the scoreboards, our little League will install all six scoreboards on the appropriately designated fields after discussing details with your staff. Todd, on behalf of over 2000+ children, coaches, parents and volunteers in the Chanhassen little League this year, thank you so very much for your continued cooperation and support. Todd Neils Vice President Chanhassen Athletic Association little League Park and Rec Commission - May 24, 2005 CHANHASSEN ATHLETIC ASSOCIATION PROPOSAL TO DONATE AND INSTALL SCOREBOARDS AND AMENDED PROPOSAL FROM CHANHASSEN ATHLETIC ASSOCIATION CONCERNING ADVERTISING SIGNAGE. Todd Neils: My name is Todd Neils. I'm the Vice President of the Little League, Chanhassen Athletic Association. I live at, on SaddIebrook Curve. I guess I'm glad item 3 was addressed because that gave the opportunity for the tumbleweeds to roll out of here, as our skateboarding friends did as well, And now I'm all alone. I'd also like to thank Todd Hoffman for what I think he is doing is setting me up after the youth of the community each time I address you. As I thought about this presentation and the way it shows up on the agenda, what we're going to find as we discuss it over the course of the next hopefully not several hours, is that they're going to, both issues are probably intertwined in away. The previous presentation that I made to the park and rec commission was in direct relation to signage in hopes that we could add capital improvements to our city parks through the purchase of scoreboards, lighting standards and dugouts that will more fully round the experience. I'd like to once again go on record as saying thank you to Todd Hoffman for assisting me in this public forum, or at least help me get through this public forum. And would like to start with my presentation. In reiterating a couple of the points that I made in February of this year about the growth of our program. I'll first say, read the mission statement of the Chanhassen Athletic Association as a whole. The association believes in an environment where fun, learning fundamentals and sportsmanship take precedence over winning. Keeping with all, an all play attitude, our goal is every player entering our program enjoys their sporting experience, taking with them the knowledge that teamwork and the effort they put forth is directed proportionate to how they perform in sports and life. Some of the highlights again from the February 22nd meeting. In 2002 the Chanhassen Athletic Association applied and received official Little League sponsorship and charter. The organization has offered the necessary standardized rules and operations to grow a strong community program for years to come. In 1990 there were 250 children that participated. 2001 that number grew to 450, 2002, when the charter was approved, 525. Since that time we've seen 46% growth over the last 2 years and our expectation is that we'll have over 1,200 by 2007. We have since extended our borders to include Shakopee, which will also accelerate the growth even faster. Again Chanhassen is the 143'd fastest growing community in the United States as of 2000. Compared with our neighbors we do have 21 % of our population under the age of 10 with the current population of 23,341 gotten off the Chanhassen web site today. That equates to approximately 4,900 children that potentially could go through our program in some capacity over the next several years. The Chanhassen Little League wants to provide quality long lasting experience for our youth that they will remember for years to come and through partnership with the City of Chanhassen and park and rec we hope to achieve that. Again, as I said, while Chairman Stolar you did mention that this is new business, both issues are intertwined so if you allow me some latitude I'd like to talk about both if you don't mind in concert. Stolar: i\bsolutely. Todd Neils: First I'd like to address the signage proposal, which really would fall into the old business and discuss that to get into signage because I think one begets the other. In order to provide the appropriate capital improvements we need the signage issue approved by the park and rec, by the City Council. And ultimately embraced by the community leaders or business 23 ," Park and Rec Commission - May 24, 2005 leaders in this community willing to put their dollars to work supporting our program. The Chanhassen Little League has developed an aggressive fund raising mission that allows for capital improvements. This funding raising will be supplied by local businesses, their sponsorship through uniform, field and scoreboard signage. With the support ofthe Park and Rec Commission we can make those improvements, and at this time I would like to briefly go over the proposal which I believe you've all received in your packets, And I'm sure read with great interest. Hoffman: So we're talking about item 5 now right? Stolar: Yeah, and I think if commission members don't have any objection we'll talk about these intertwined. Okay, great. Todd Neils: Thank you very much. The original proposal was submitted to staff somewhere about ApriI15'h. Approximately. I don't remember the precise date. At which time staff brought it to the city attorney who made some adjustments to the proposal but that while on the surface are acceptable in nature because they were written by us, there are a few points I'd like to address about the proposal itself and really get the feedback of the commission and staff about the original proposal that was made. If you don't mind, I don't know if you'll be able to see this. What I'll do is I'll read, okay. Essentially, yeah, Essentially Part I noted that signage will be placed on scoreboards for additional revenue generation. That was taken out of the proposal change by the city attorney. It's inconsistent with the second point which says, additionally the city will receive $400 in payment for all signage, scoreboards and $400 in payment for every, and every subsequent year, which would say to me that we really should add that back in. Stolar: Do we know why that was taken out? Hoffman: I don't recall the specific reason, no... Todd Neils: Okay. Secondly, I don't mean to be a terrible wet blanket here. If we jumped down to point 10. The annual, oh thank you Todd. The contract expires on the current proposal on an annual basis which really limits us in our ability to sell multi year signage to the businesses, which is I think a selling point where we can give price breaks and so on and so forth. And with this year essentially in the books, since we've started our season and don't have the opportunity, we originally had requested a December 31,2008 first time renewal. What we request from the commission at this point to change the language to read, rather than being on an annual basis, again to give us the opportunity to sell multi year fund raising that we would have a December 31,2007 and then a bi-annual renewal process, That's the second point. The third point is probably our greatest concern and I think I did have at least a brief e-mail exchange with Todd Hoffman about this. Point 12 states all money collected shall be appropriated for capital improvements to city fields. These improvements may include construction of scoreboards, dugouts and additional lighting standards. Originally it was written, these improvements will include construction of scoreboards, dugouts and additional lighting standards. I guess what we're requesting is that there is further clarification of what may include because it is not necessarily in our charter through this donation process or this granting process to fund capital improvements that may otherwise be handled by the park and rec staff and employees. And 24 Park and Rec Commission - May 24, 2005 secondarily on point 11, which I guess at this point is point 12, the CAA further requests input as to most favorable sites for those capital improvements. That has been taken out completely from point 12. Again I've thrown a lot out there and ask you at the same time and would like to hear a little bit of feedback, particularly from staff as to clarification of what may be instead of will. Stolar: Let me, if you don't mind can we talk about it. Todd Neils: Without question. Stolar: What I'd like to do is address your points first and then also ask if there are any points of the commissioners after that, so Todd first question for you. There were, to my knowledge 3 main, 4 main points. One being the elimination of the scoreboards being a place for sign age on point 1. That one you said, that's not really an issue. Will be fine. Okay. The second being the expiration, December 31, 2007 and then biannual. Hoffman: ...2008 and there was? Todd Neils: It says, this contract expires on December 31,2008 and is renewable upon consent by each party, and what we would ask is that it expires on 2007 and then at that time is renewable upon consent by each party. Hoffman: It's understandable you're going to want to sell these things on a multi year level. Item 12, the reason to say may instead of will is if they, if the city is, if the payments add up to $3,000, we may not be able to do any of those so the wording will, the fact that these improvements may, they may not occur. We don't want to imply that simply by signing this proposal that these improvements. . , Stolar: The goal being that these monies will be applied towards these things if they can fund them, and that these monies won't be applied to something totally different. Todd Neils: Yes, absolutely. Stolar: So can we, I assume you guys will be able to work with the appropriate attorney to clarify that. The intention sounds the same. That we collect this money and we apply it towards this. If we collect enough money to do this, we'll do this. If we don't, the city isn't kicking in the difference. Todd Neils: Right. I would agree with that. I would also however, as you'll also find in your packet a letter that was written to me from Todd Hoffman on May 25th that the provision of dugouts, again this is the letter I referred to. It is in the packet. It addresses, it's your initial address, addressing after discussions about advertising signage, scoreboards, dugouts and ballfield lighting. While the Chanhassen Athletic Association Little League is more than happy to assist in the funding of many of these capital improvements, we don't want to be the sole responsibility or have them be the sole responsibility of the Chanhassen Athletic Association. In points 3 and 4, specifically under dugouts, the provision of dugouts primarily to protect players from the elements is a long term goal of the department. In point 4 we maintain the position that 25 Park and Rec Commission - May 24, 2005 eventually many of the athletic fields within the city will be lit or lighted. While we have no expectation that we're going to throw this in the city's lap or staff's lap under their budget, what we would request is that a continued dialogue and working with the park and rec commission and staff to work in concert to make these capital improvements rather than making it the sole responsibility of the Chanhassen Athletic Association, Stolar: And I think that's where the issue of will becomes a question so it's more a wording of this money is dedicated to that function. If this commission and the City Council so choose to take this money and make it happen through whatever capital improvement programs, or whatever money that is available from this, that's still going to end up being our's no matter what, right? So I think it's just a wording issue. We're still all saying the same thing. They want this money dedicated to those purposes. But we can't commit that we're going to build those. Hoffman: Yeah, we won't commit we're going to build those and we won't commit that we're going to participate in those and so I think there's a philosophical difference on item number 12. The City Council never wants to accept donations based on the premise that those are going to further inspire additional investment in those same particular items. Because the City Council, and I believe this commission feels strongly that if you feel those are a top priority you would be funding them even without contributions. And so what typically happens is youth associations come to the city. They're very inspired to see improvements in the specific things that they value in their community, and I've had this conversation with Mr. Neils and if they want to raise $100,000 and light baIlfields at Lake Ann, that's great. But the conversation with this commission and the City Council about those similar type of improvements is something that you take on on an annual basis. Each June and July you have an opportunity to say as a commission we want to build ballfield lights. You haven't done that. You have the opportunity to say we want to build dugouts. You haven't done that, There's other priorities. We have ballfields. They're sufficient. Could they be improved? Absolutely, Have you found other higher priorities? Yes, this community has. So item 12 can be worded to say that this money collected shall be used for these improvements if sufficient dollars are collected, and I have no problem that the CAA would participate in that conversation. But they're certainly not going to mandate what that money would be used for. Again that has to be clear. Simply because the CAA dedicates money to this community, under this kind of arrangement it's not counting for a specific thing. It's just coming for a, it's not like Todd's not here today saying we have $100,000. We want to put ballfield lights at Lake Ann. They're proposing a program that may raise money and could possibly fund these type of improvements. So we're not locking ourselves in to what those improvements are. That's a different conversation. Two years from now if there was $20,000 in the bank, then we have that conversation and say okay, what should we invest that in. Stolar: And to make sure I understand, but are you saying it is within the purview of this agreement that these monies that they raise, which may never be used for anything, right? Because if it's not sufficient and we don't decide to put it in the capital improvement, then we just sit there. But the key, my understanding or my concern would be, we also don't want this money being taken to be used for something totally disassociated with things of the CAA's interest. Like the general fund for streets. 26 Park and Rec Commission - May 24, 2005 Hoffman: Correct. Stolar: Okay. And that's kind of the objective I want to make sure is that we understand that this is money to go to improvements in the ballfield like described here but it isn't sufficient to guarantee those improvements will happen. Hoffman: Correct. Stolar: Okay. Dillon: I'm a little confused on money collected you know in item 12 and then in item number 2, you know money paid. Hoffman: The money we collect through the agreement is a payment that they're making based on a sign. They're selling the advertising signage. For every sign that they sell we collected, they pay us that $200 per sign. Todd Neils: And it essentially goes into I guess an escrow account which will in the future pay for capital improvements to the fields. Dillon: Okay. So how much will the sign be sold for? Todd Neils: I don't think we've determined that. I think we're confident based on the numbers that we've given you that we will be able to sell a sign, which will at the very least make the appropriate payment of $200 in addition to any costs to produce the sign. Dillon: So Todd there's 4 fields that are identified. About how many signs at each field? Todd Neils: Our expectation is that if we are allowed to put signage up, we will sell approximately 104 signs. Not including scoreboards. Dillon: I noticed in one of the previous signage correspondence pieces in here there was, now regarding item number 4 on the current proposal it says only signage excluding alcohol, tobacco and sexually oriented businesses is allowed. The other I was thinking has no political or religious stuff too. Is that going to be a part of this? I don't see the language in here. Is that specifically not there? Is it an over sight? Hoffman: Item 4 has been modified. Only commercial signage, excluding alcohol, tobacco, and sexually oriented businesses allowed. Stolar: So does that mean religious signage is allowed? Dillon: And political? 27 Park and Rec Commission - May 24, 2005 Hoffman: No. This is the way the, only commercial signage. So this is the way it has to be worded, Based on the new wording. Dillon: Oh, okay, I get it. Commercial. Stolar: And I saw that same thing Kevin. There was a previous memo from 2000 that specifically said political and religious signage will not be allowed. Hoffman: That's not defensible in a public organization. Stolar: It isn't? Okay. Gotch ya. Dillon: They'll try to sneak that in there in an election year. Stolar: You missed the boat. There was a lot of money spent last election year. Hoffman: Political signs are not commercial signs, Scharfenberg: Todd in regards to the scoreboards, do you have a different proposal regarding that? Todd Neils: Well I do. Scoreboards are a difficult thing. The Chanhassen Athletic Association Little League is at this time prepared to, in the letter to Todd Hoffman, the Chanhassen Athletic Association Little League was prepared to donate 6 scoreboards to the city. After stepping back a little bit and taking a look at it, the Little League is now prepared to donate 3 scoreboards to strategically placed parks within the community, that being Bandimere, one at Lake Ann and potentially one at Bluff Creek. Scharfenberg: And that would be again clarifying are you guys building the sign and installing it? Todd Neils: We actually will be purchasing these signs from a reputable sign manufacturer called Sportable Signage. I don't have a lot of specs. There aren't a lot of specs available. We decided to go with a manual type scoreboard because we felt that the long term issues with electronic scoreboards in addition to hiring electricians and the additional labor involved in that type of operation. Additionally you have multiple communities that are using these fields. The hand off of the, whether it be wireless, coding, etc, etc, would be cumbersome at best. And as we just heard from our skate park friends, much more susceptible to damage at higher costs through vandalism. The Sportable, and again I have very little information unfortunately as it relates to this. I can redo some of their literature/propaganda if you like. I also have packets that outline what the signage, or what the scoreboards will look like. Scharfenberg: So will this be your number one priority in terms of the initial money that you raise would be the scoreboards? 28 Park and Rec Commission - May 24, 2005 Todd Neils: Yes. Initially yes. The number one priority would be scoreboards. Obviously as I stated with the tremendous growth aspect we see in the Chanhassen Athletic Association Little League, lighting will become a greater and greater factor as the years go on because our hope and desire, if we're unable to get more fields in the community is to run multiple game nights. Unfortunately you run into issues with that as well because you have parents with younger kids who are 11, 12, maybe 13 years old who have homework and bedtimes, unlike commission and staff members. Yes, initially our expectation is to start small I guess as it were by donating some scoreboards and then populating additional parks with money we raise with the expectation that in, potentially in the next year based on the amount of money we raise, putting in a dugout. I couldn't help be motivated by this. By coaching fall baseball and going to, I can't for the life of me remember the name of the park but it's on 101. Bennett Park, and seeing really the way the community is taken in with the central concession stand. With signage. With dugouts, The kids really feel they're major league baseball players, whether it be for 2 hours, and that's the whole rounded experience that we strive for. That's the reason that we want to have this signage approved. That's the reason that we feel that it's important to add some of these amenities and capital improvements to these park so the kids can go away with the experience that I played in a Little League, I did it as a child in Glen Lake and in Minnetonka and I think I'd love to have my son grow up in the same way. Scharfenberg: Have you guys, Todd have you looked at alternatives to dugouts. I know in talking to Ann V olas, you know part of the issue I think is you know playing in the summer and it's you know July and you're out at Bluff Creek where there's no shade, it's more of a safety issue and since we've been getting our magazine and I've been kind of paging through that, they have protective devices on parks. You know nice tarping and things like that. Have you guys looked into any of that stuff as opposed to going and spending the money on dugouts, something more along those lines. Todd Neils: You know I strolled through the tournament they had last year and sawall the makeshift lean to's with blue tarps and yellow tarps and rope and so on and so forth that they erected over the dugouts. And yes, we did actually discuss that as a possibility. I think a more permanent structure adds a greater allure and becomes much more, I wouldn't say stable necessarily but I would say more in concrete, pardon the pun. Longer lasting. Less maintenance and so on and so forth. The tarping that we discussed, while on it's surface would be very nice to shade from sun and foul balls and so on and so forth, but I think a longer lasting approach is more appropriate for what we're trying to achieve. Stolar: So trying to separate these out and for the scoreboards we don't have an official recommendation from staff because there's still some questions to work out. Or is there? Hoffman: We don't have yet. We still haven't been presented with sufficient information to take this to the City Council. I can't make a recommendation on something that I don't know what it is. Stolar: Within appropriate, and you're getting that information as we're going along. 29 Park and Rec Commission - May 24, 2005 Todd Neils: Well I have as much information as provided in terms of what the materials will be made out. What the installation process will be. Beyond that there isn't a tremendous amount of information available that's offered by Sportable Scoreboards. I can give you a basic idea by reading, Scoreboards are approximately 8 by 4. Have a 9 inch yellow fluorescent numbers, which are permanently attached and visible over 300 feet. There's a movable window number that slide in and out of view with a simple push of a finger, and it's designed to mount on a 4 by 4 post. Beyond that in all honesty there isn't any information additionally I can add. Or offer to staff to entice them to approve this. I honestly don't know precisely what I could. Stolar: I think one of the things we'll probably need is clarification of who's installing. Or at least I would need. Who's installing? What do we do with these during the off season? I mean those are some of the things I would wonder about. Hoffman: What the construction material is. Is it wood? Is it. Todd Neils: It's metal. Hoffman: Is it metal? Most anything you buy there should be a spec sheet available and. We can't propose as a commission or as a staff to the City Council that we accept a donation that we don't know what it is. And to turn this thing off to say we can't provide that is just, I don't understand it. Stolar: So I guess let me suggest we table the scoreboard situation for one second, okay? Because that we need to talk a little bit more about. Can we continue, if there are any questions on the proposal under old business, and eventually I'll clarify what we're going to vote on but there were specifics there. We had a couple of amendments. Todd you've commented on all of them that the only thing we need to do is clarify the wording right now to relay the intent that the monies given by the CAA to the signage be focused on these types of investments and capital improvement but also be clear that it doesn't mean necessarily that those are going to be approved. Hoffman: Correct. Now I have wording proposed for number 12. I think number 1 and 10 can be accepted as amended by Mr. Neils. Number 12, I would propose that we say all money collected shall be appropriated for capital improvements to city ballfields, including construction of scoreboards, dugouts and additional lighting. Improvements will be initiated only when sufficient funds have been collected and with input from the CAA. Todd Neils: That's acceptable at this point. Stolar: Any questions from commission members? Sounds good. Okay. Any other questions from, because I think what we ought to do is we ought, since 5's pretty well laid out. We ought to just finish that up. Vote on that and then go back to the scoreboards. Okay. Any other questions on the proposal, and I know Kevin you had asked the question about the wording. We got that clarified. Any other questions that you have Kevin? Dillon: Not at this time. 30 Park and Rec Commission - May 24, 2005 Stolar: Ann? Atkins: These signs will go on fields 1, 2 and 3 at Lake Ann, correct? Todd Neils: I think it also states Bandimere. Hoffman: Number 1 at Bandimere. Atkins: So probably 25 signs on each? Todd Neils: Approximately. Atkins: Okay. Stolar: Alright, I just had one quick thought as I was reading this. It talks about using them April through October. If done right is there any desire or possibility to use them in the skate rinks in the winter for extra fees? Hoffman: I don't have a desire to see that, I don't know if Todd does. Todd Neils: I would say that based on the material and the temperature, it's. Stolar: It'd be problematic. Todd Neils: Well if you hang them on the rinks, at least on the boards, you're going to have, they're going to be torn up pretty quickly. Terry Campbell: I was just going to say.. ,minor league ballpark or any, to many ballparks, My son travels the river valley this last year and you go down to these nice little home town ballparks and they're quaint and they have this nice, nicely painted outdoor signs on the outfield. It's not like they're any kind of tacky, obnoxious. They have to be certain specs or whatever you want to say, but they're not obnoxious. They're...makes a more homey feel and it's not just a fence. You know it has a little more hometown baseball feel. Stolar: I mean my kids play at Bennett Park so yes, I know exactly what you're talking about. Terry Campbell: That's a great little ballpark. Hoffman: Something to remember. Bennett is a private facility and I understand exactly what we're seeing here, that these signs are not going to create the same small hometown feel that you would get at a Chaska Cubs Auditorium or stadium, Stolar: No, but the end vision, though we may never achieve it, is to try and create more of the, what I'll call the minor league ballpark atmosphere. If you get to the end state. If we get sufficient funding to get the instate of the dugouts and those sort of things so yeah, it's a nice 31 Park and Rec Commission - May 24, 2005 vision to work off of. We know it's going to be a challenge. And it may never occur but this is a way to start funding that vision and I personally am in favor of that. To at least start and we'll see where it goes, We have 2 years to see and after 2 years we say, not working. We can make choices then. Dillon: I just you know, I mean we start now. It's 2 years I guess but you start down this slippery slope of it's advertising everywhere, and I'm in the marketing business and I advertise for a living. I know, And I do this, but you know it's, there's something to be said about, you know I grew up in a small town in upstate New York and we didn't have signs and there's something to be said just for green space sometimes too. Not a constant assault on the senses of people trying to sell you something. And like I said, I try to sell people stuff all the time but there's so, I think there is also an aesthetic facet in keeping it signless too. And you know if it was a huge amount of money that we're talking about, you know that could really do a whole bunch of stuff, I mean you know that's one thing but it's kind of small potatoes too. I mean benefit, financial benefit, it doesn't seem to be that great for what we are just giving up in aesthetics. Now I'm not exactly paving paradise, putting a parking lot but it's clean. It's green. And it's the way it's been. Hoffman: The first proposal we did not accept based on the fact that there was not sufficient revenue potential directly to the city. Here they're talking about $20,000 a year potentially at the very best, and so yes, it's not. You know our budget, our capital budget of $250,000 or there abouts so you're talking about less than 10% of that. Stolar: Initially. And if you add in the scoreboards, and see I looked at it the opposite way. I said that's 10% we didn't have. Todd Neils: It's not only 10% but in the long run if it's able to fund 10 scoreboards that the commission is not pressed to put in by the community, if it is able to fund dugouts, if it is able to fund additional lighting, which is an important component, and yes I can appreciate the want and desire for green space but it is still a baseball field. And we have a large number of parks in this community. In a 2 year span we're going to give, if all signage and all scoreboard signage is approved, we're going to give approximately 10% of the annual budget to the park and rec for these capital improvements, and I would consider that, I would consider that a large donation or grant. Stolar: And I guess to Kevin's point though, there is a question of at some point we have to make sure we don't let a genie out of the bottle and just let it go hog wild. I don't know if it's appropriate at this point but my inclination is that there are certain key fields that are you know the fields to walk. To put this on and then there are others that are not necessarily. I don't know if that's something we want to talk about now or at a subsequent meeting. Hoffman: .. ,at Bluff Creek may not be appropriate to fill it up with signage. Todd Neils: And that's one reason we didn't propose. Hoffman: You were talking about 4 of them. 32 Park and Rec Commission - May 24, 2005 Stolar: That doesn't solve the issue that you brought up Kevin but I do think that we do need to make sure that there are identified fields for which this atmosphere we're trying to create makes sense. And there are those that maybe have multi-use. I'm thinking for example neighborhood parks. Lots of neighborhoods, We probably just don't want to do this in there. Scharfenberg: Unless you're going to put up cyclone fencing around to put it up. I mean you're incurring additional costs to do that. Stolar: What I'm saying like don't put it in the backstop of a neighborhood park only, Scharfenberg: Yeah. Stolar: Right, we don't want to do that. You aren't creating an atmosphere of a fence in ballfields. Todd Neils: There again is the safety issue as well. If you put it on the backstop, the ball can't be seen as well coming in from the outfield and so on and so forth. Scharfenberg: Yeah, I think the parks we're talking about are Lake Ann and Bandimere right now, unless another complex is built in the next few years. Those are the fields we're talking about. Stolar: Okay. Do we have a motion, given the amendments and changes? Or I'm sorry, are there any other questions? Do I have a motion on item 5, amended proposal from CAA concerning the advertisement signage to accept the amended proposal with the updates that Todd Neils and Todd Hoffman presented. Scharfenberg: I move to accept the amended proposal for, concerning advertising signage. Stolar: Moved by Commissioner Scharfenberg. Do I have a second? Murphy: Second. Stolar: Seconded by Commissioner Murphy. Any further discussion? Scharfenberg moved, Murphy seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend the City Council approve the amended agreement between the City of Chanhassen and the Chanhassen Athletic Association governing the provision of dedicated advertising signage. All voted in favor, except Dillon and Atkins who opposed, and the motion carried with a vote of 4 to 2. Stolar: We have Commissioner Scharfenberg and Murphy, Stolar and Spizale in favor and Commissioners Atkins and Dillon opposed. Motion carnes 4 to 2. Okay? Which again, given the nature of the discussion on this I assume that we will continue our dialogues as this goes along to try and balance this vision with some of the desires expressed by our commission 33 Park and Rec Commission - May 24, 2005 members. Alright, now going back to item 4, It seems to me we don't have material in front of us to make a motion, or direction from staff. Commissioners, are there any, we can make one from the floor based on the information. Hoffman: If you're comfortable you certainly can. Stolar: Do we have, is there an imperative to act today on this? Todd Neils: Well our hopes and desires were to have these approved so that we could present to City Council and show that the Chanhassen Athletic Association Little League is working for the youth of the community, and have them available and ready and up by our season to determine which way by the end of June. I don't anticipate if we table this until June that it will get to City Council until July, and therefore our vision of getting it in the primary locations that we discussed would not be realized. Stolar: Okay, there are a couple of things on that process. One, we do have a June 14th meeting, but that still probably would be very tight I would assume. Todd Neils: I think June 13th is City Council. Stolar: Second, in all reality it doesn't, Todd, it doesn't have to be an official motion from this group to go to City Council, correct? Staff can present it. Hoffman: I won't present it. Stolar: You won't? Hoffman: No. If you want to, you certainly can. I won't with the information that I have. Stolar: No, no, I'm sorry. If you work the deals out and we don't get a chance to meet and you get it sufficient to your comfort level between now and June 13th. Hoffman: ...maintenance staff needs to look at them. Once they're donated they're our's to maintain and own into the future. We need to know if they're you know maintenance free. That's what our desire. I don't know that. I don't know the materials they're made out of. This is just an artist rendering. This is not a proposal of what we're buying or what we're accepting. Stolar: Right. Is there a way to get a list of those questions or has that already been done? Of the specifics we would need. We could get Todd, so that we can get those answered. Hoffman: Oh I requested those. He said he would bring them to the meeting. Stolar: Alright. Todd Neils: The e-mail I received was vague in nature and did not necessarily request placement. We did as a matter offer to install. There will be no cutting down of trees. They will 34 Park and Rec Commission - May 24, 2005 be put on the outfield of 3 fields in the community, specifically again Lake Ann, City Center, or on the side and have repeatedly stated that we would be willing to take any recommendation the staff has as to where the placement ofthose signs. I guess that's all I have to say on that matter. Scharfenberg: Todd so you said Lake Ann, City Center and where was the third one? Todd Neils: Bandimere, Hoffman: Which fields there are you proposing? Todd Neils: Probably initially Lake Ann 1 or 2, since 2 has the mound. I probably would suggest that as the most desirable location. ßandimere 1 because one of the fields that we use most frequently. Because City Center and Bluff Creek, the rec center do not have fences, I would be more inclined to request guidance from staff as to the appropriate place for safety issues for the kids as to where to place those signs, or scoreboards rather. Scharfenberg: I guess why the shot gun approach to the fields. Why not say we're going to, we'd like to do Lake Ann first? We'll do 3 fields at Lake Ann this year. We'll do 3. We'll do the 3 fields at Bandimere. Todd Neils: There's 3, there's 1 that we use essentially. The shot gun approach really is because we want to get, for lack of a better term, biggest bang for the buck. Again pardon the pun. The reason we want to use or utilize all 3 of those locations is because it reaches the broadest number of membership in the Chanhassen Athletic Association Little League. We have ages 5 through 8 that participate at City Center. We have ages 9 through 12 that participate at Lake Ann. We have ages 5 through 8 and sometimes 9 and 10 year olds that also use the Chan Rec Center. So by using the shot gun approach we have the broadest umbrella cast over the city to show our members that we are working for them. Stolar: Any thoughts on actions? Spizale: I don't think Todd is comfortable, or staff is comfortable with what you're proposing. Hoffman: I'm comfortable completely with the notion. No problem accepting it... Spizale: But you don't have enough information. Hoffman: If Mr. Neils wants to go to the City Council, when there's next meeting? Oh, it just was last night. On the 13th and make a proposal and they want to accept it with the information we have today, but we've been around long enough. The council is, not only this council but previous councils, they want to know when they're getting something, what's the long term impact on maintenance. What does it look like? How are citizens going to respond to it? And so I think what I asked, I don't recall specifically but some spec sheets. Material. You know what's it made out of. Product catalogs. Just something simple so we know, so I understand, so you would understand what this sign is. Certainly I'm not trying to be an obstructionist. Just reasonable, having some reasonable expectations of what we're accepting as a donation. 35 Park and Rec Commission - May 24, 2005 Dillon: I think with again, refening back to the skate park issue, and my greatest concern is that as we continue to go down this path and vision, that my greatest concern is that there are going to be issues after hours with the scoreboards once they're put up. I think that for long term maintenance purposes, because they're quite easy to take down and put up, they're very light weight. We would almost recommend and be willing to take them down and store them on an annual basis. Stolar: I think all of this is kind of what we needed to put together kind of like with the other, the signage. Kind of a list of here's what they are. Here's what we'll do. Those sort of things. Unless the commission members have a desire to make a motion, there really isn't any action for us to take. What I do have a question is, do we want to take a pulse for conceptually the idea, just like what Todd said, that we are looking to work with the CAA to work the scoreboard out once we know all the details. I don't know if we want to. Dillon: Conceptually, yeah. I mean I think scoreboards are, you know the scope. Stolar: So Todd, you know I know that doesn't solve the question today for either Todd, and I don't know what will. I mean I have some ideas of what we can do, which is empower Todd that if he's sufficiently comfortable with the agreement that we would support his judgment on this. That's one thing we can do. Don't know if you want us to do that, but it would seem to me that that could expedite the situation. I am, I personally am a little bit concerned along the comments you made Steve, of putting a bunch of these out there when we haven't done them yet. And it would seem to me, especially we talked earlier about the green space. I don't mind Bandimere and Lake Ann but I'm not sure I want to venture beyond that right now. Just as a personal opinion, until we understand more about where this is going. So I think that's all we can do at this point is provide input to you Todd. And Todd. Both of you. Any other points? Dillon: And if you're going to get back to us with just a more buttoned up plan, I think you'd probably find a fair amount of support. Todd Neils: What is your expectation of time lines on that? Are we looking at a June meeting? Scharfenberg: I think so. I mean if you come to Todd, you guys come back to us with, as staff indicated, Todd Hoffman indicated, these are. Here's the catalog. Here's what it is. These are the 3 fields that we want to put them on. And you talk with staff ahead of time and they say yes or we need, can you get 1, 2 or 3 for us. Ithink we'd be willing to act on this. Ijust think your expectations at this point that this is going to, they're going to get built and they're going to be ready for the end of this season, it's just not going to happen. I know you'd love to have that done. Ijust don't think it's going to happen this year. Hoffman: We need, I need about 2 weeks to prepare a report for the council and run it through the appropriate channels so if I have something from Todd in a week, that you want me to write a staff report to the council, I'll be certainly willing to do that. 36 Park and Rec Commission - May 24, 2005 Stolar: Are people comfortable with that? I mean as a citizen, Todd can go right now to the City Council. He doesn't need any of us, right? Hoffman: Correct. Stolar: As a citizen, but obviously we want to try and do this together as a group. But we can't officially take any action unless we do it today, but if we let Todd write a report based on his comfort level, I think that's where I was going. Is that I'm comfortable with Todd, your judgment on this. It's not an official approval or recommendation from this commission, but I think we've talked about it enough that you understand our views on it. Hoffman: We changed from 6 to 3 tonight and we just need a defined proposal. Stolar: And I think if you get that and you want to present staff's recommendation, if you choose to go to the City Council for June 13th, that's fine. I would just ask that it be known that we haven't seen it officially, but I also think we could look at it at our June 14th meeting. I think we have one, right? June 14th. Hoffman: Yes. Stolar: We're going to have a special meeting on June 14th. For another topic, right? Hoffman: Obviously we can go to the council if they have your support. Mr, Neils will have a better chance of getting it passed. Without your recommendation council may say, we don't want to look at it until the park commission does, They may approve it. Dillon: Any, for us to give our official, do we have to convene like this to do that? I mean can we circulate your document and we get back to you or how does that? Stolar: It has to be a public meeting notice, right? Hoffman: Not a big deal. Stolar: So if you guys work on the details and just take the input from one commission member, I'd prefer just Bandimere and Lake Ann. I don't know if anybody else has input they would like to give. Dillon; Those two parks are the likely candidates I think for try-outs. Hoffman: So Lake Ann 2, Bandimere 1 and Bluff Creek, which field Todd? Todd Neils: It wouldn't be Bluff Creek at this point. It would probably be Lake Ann 1 and 2 and Bandimere 1. I appreciate your point of view and 1 think that you know, if we're going to make that well rounded Little League experience, then the ones, you know if you want that old time feel with the signage, you might as well put your scoreboards there as well. I guess I'm a 37 Park and Rec Commission - May 24, 2005 bit confused as to, is my next step to work with Todd Hoffman about the specs under the base understanding that the commission is comfortable with whatever he proposes to City Council? Stolar: Yes, generally speaking, Without knowing the specifics. The commission, well let me rephrase this. The commission is understanding that we've got to go through that step at the very least to get moving forward and that we are giving our input to Todd for what we want to see for this, Todd Neils: I guess I would see that as a roadblock in that if Todd's expectation is that you haven't voted on it as a commission, while I'm more than willing to go down that road and discuss it with him, my concern is I'd be wasting their time. Because the, my expectation going in would be, they're going to DK it. Kick it back saying commission hasn't approved this. Stolar: They can do that even if we approve it. Todd Neils: Yeah, I see your point. Okay. Stolar: I mean the only thing we could do is we could do a formal motion saying we are in favor of scoreboards at those three fields under the appropriate designations and recommendations of the park and rec's department. I don't know if that would make a difference. That that's that much different than what we've just said. But if that would help. Todd, do you think? Hoffman: As long as I know the construction material, the operation, how they're going to be installed. The things I asked for that I thought would be presented this evening. Stolar: And how they would be stored. If at all. Hoffman: Yeah, I would hope that they would be permanent. I mean a significant permanent, to stay there. Not to be stored. We run into issues with storage. Where are they going to be stored? Many times associations say we're going to store them but we ended up storing most of the things so. Stolar: But if it's easier for maintenance not to store them. So I guess, I don't think this is a roadblock. I think you have an intent here to try and work something out. If there are objections to that though please state them now. If you don't agree with that. I'm just trying to bring closure. But I mean that's okay, state the objection as part of the closure. Making sure that we understand. Murphy: I'm just confused what the roadblock is. We're waiting for some information from you, right? So if we get that, we can move forward, Todd Neils: I guess it's not a roadblock per se. It's just a concern. And I take Chairman Stolar's point that they can kick back anything, even if you do recommend. I'll go on from there. 38 "'--------- Park and Rec Commission - May 24, 2005 Murphy: But we can't, until we, we don't have the information that we were looking for tonight so. Stolar: Can Ijust do a quick polling, which is do we as a commission in general support the idea of scoreboards being tried on a limited basis on the Lake Ann fields 1 and 2, Bandimere 1 if they meet the criteria needed by the park's and rec staff for accepting scoreboard donation? Scharfenberg: Yes. Murphy: Yes. Spizale: Yes. Dillon: Yes. Atkins: Yes. Stolar: There you have it. Todd Neils: Thank you very much. Stolar: It's just a statement of opinion. Not a formal motion. Todd Neils: May I ask one additional thing that relates to scoreboards? On the very bottom there in small lettering, rather than saying Home of the Chanhassen Little League, will we be allowed to state that we did donate these scoreboards to the City? Stolar: I believe we had a donation policy, don't we? Hoffman: The policy that, yeah. That doesn't speak to that. I don't have a problem with that. We wouldn't want it to say Home of the Chanhassen Little League. Todd Neils: That's why I said, they won't say that at all, It just donation made by Chanhassen Little League. Hoffman: Yeah, no problem with that. Stolar: Does any commissioner have a problem with that? Okay, good. Todd Neils: Once again thank you for your time. Stolar: Thanks Todd. Sorry to make you guys wait til all hours of the night here. Todd Neils: My pleasure. Stolar: And Todd, Mr. Hoffman, are you okay with where we're at? 39 Park and Rec Commission - May 24, 2005 Hoffman: Absolutely. Stolar: Okay. So I think we're all saying the same thing and we're all supporting the same objective, Thank you for your efforts, REPORTS: LAKE ANN PARK SUMMER SCHEDULE. Ruegemer: Lake Ann concession operation is going to be opening up this weekend. Weather permitting. We've had the concession staff down there last weekend. Kind of doing the post winter cleaning and that sort of stuff, and then I've been down there on a daily basis. Deliveries are starting to come in for that site. We're basically all set to go. We have all college age kids that are going to be working down there in the summer so hopefully we'll have a nice, rebounding season from last year. Little tough on everybody. But other than that we're all set to go. Beach is going to open up I believe the 10th or 11 th of June with that so again as the commission knows we'll be going through Minnetonka Community Education Services again. And the beach will be open again from 10:30 to 8:00 on a daily basis so. Picnic phone calls continue to come in with that daily and we seem to be kind of picking up now again with phone calls and people booking up for graduations and weddings and family reunions and that sort of thing too, so that's it. Stolar: I had one question I brought up to Todd earlier which was when we had the whole lifeguard contract discussion. The discussion then was that the Minnetonka Community Ed had agreed to equal the calendar that was proposed by the alternative, I forgot his name. Ruegemer: John. Stolar: John's alternative and this date reflects their original contract date as opposed to the alternati ve date of a week earlier. Ruegemer: So you want to start a week earlier? Stolar: Well I just want to make sure that that is what we, when we were reviewing the contract understood it to be. Whether the city staff chooses to make it different, that's your call but that's the obligation that I hope MCES realizes they have to us. Ruegemer: I think that was stated that evening, was it not that they would start. Stolar: Yes. So city staff has made a choice to postpone it a week. Just want to make sure that is clear. Ruegemer: We talked about that just with the closures of school being June 9th and yeah. Being in line with previous years. We didn't see having it open a full week prior to that just with the amount of beach traffic that mayor may not be there. 40