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13. Commission Appointments, Board of Adjustments, SW Metro Transit I _ t3 , iiik 1 , CITY OF li .„,L \I Alo ` 690 COULTER DRIVE • P.O. BOX 147 • CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 612 937-1900 I ) 1 MEMORANDUM TO: Don Ashworth, City Manager IFROM: Jo Ann Olsen, Asst. City Planner ?DO DATE: March 10, 1988 ISUBJ: Appointments to the Board of Adjustments and Appeals and the Southwest Metro Transit Commission IBOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS AND APPEALS At the February 22, 1988, City Council meeting, it was determined IIthat Willard Johnson, Carol Watson, and Dale Geving shall be reappointed to the Board of Adjustments. A motion to reappoint the Board of Adjustment members was not made at this time. I (Although the positions were advertised, no other applications were received. ) II RECOMMENDATION Staff recommends the City Council adopt the following g motion: I "The City Council reappoints Willard Johnson, Carol Watson, and Dale Geving to the Board of Adjustments and Appeals for a term expiring January, 1989. " ISOUTHWEST METRO TRANSIT COMMISSION At the February 22, 1988, City Council meeting, it was also IIdiscussed that either Jay Johnson or Bill Boyt should be appointed to the Southwest Metro Transit Commission. A motion was not made at that time since Jay Johnson was not present to I state whether or not he wanted to be appointed full time to the Southwest Metro Transit Commission. The position was advertised but no applications were received. II RECOMMENDATION Given previous Council discussion, staff recommends that the City I Council appoint a Council member to the Southwest Metro Transit Commission. I I Mr. Don Ashworth 11 March 10, 1988 Page 2 I Staff recommends that the City Council adopt the following motion: "The City Council appoints either Jay Johnson or Bill Boyt as a representative for Chanhassen on the Southwest Metro Transit Commission. " ATTACHMENTS I 1 . City Council minutes dated February 22 , 1988. 1 I I I 1 I I I I I I cs „ � City Council Meeting - February 22, 1988 the thing that looks � like a prefab buxldzng. ' Barbara Dacy: That's exactly the direction that the Commission gave to staff. Even to the point that they said, look our real intent is to eliminate a pole barn being in the industrial park or commercial district so they recommended that term because that's easily defineable. Staff is coming back to the Planning Commission with recommendation and revised language on this item. This item is not recommended for action tonight. ' Councilman Horn: In effect, we would allow ornamental metal but not structural metal? ' Barbara Dacy: That's the direction that the Commission wanted us to look at. Mayor Hamilton: I had a question on 4. The word temporary, it was never clear ' what temporary means. Is there a definition of temporary someplace? Barbara Dacy: That's exactly the issue. The Attorney's opinion is that a conditional use, once it is granted, runs with the land and the process of a ' temporary conditional use is in conflict with state law. Based on his recommendation, that's why we're recommending that that section be deleted. ' Mayor Hamilton moved, Councilman Horn seconded to approve the first reading of the following Zoning Ordinance amendments as presented: ' 1. Revise Article V, Section 5(5) (3) and Article V, Section 6(5) (3) to state 125 feet. 3. Revise Article VI, Section 12, Fences and Walls, to provide for requirements regarding the use of barbed wire fences. 4. Delete Article VI, Section 4, Temporary Structures and Uses. 6. Add subparagraph 20 to Article IX, Section 2, General Provisions for Signs to require a conditional use permit for cemetery signs. All voted in favor and motion carried. Mayor Hamilton: Items 2, 5, 7 and 8 need further review and will come back to ' us. COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS: RECONSIDER COMMISSION APPOINTMENTS, COUNCILMAN GEVING. ' Councilman Geving: Sorry that I missed last meeting. When I arrived tonight I had to kick the structure on the outside of the building to make sure the mortar was still in place. It seems to me that some of the decisions that were ' made tore the very foundation, in my opinion, out from some of the things we had decided a long time ago in terms of commission appointments. So it's with that in mind that I'd like to read a letter that I've prepared for the Mayor only because I'd like to have it in the Minutes and then I will continue with the commission itself. This is a letter to Mayor Tom Hamilton regarding my 26711 City Council- Meeting - February 22, 1988 1 resignation from the Chanhassen Board of Adjustments and Appeals. Dear Tam: The action by the City Council on February 8, 1988 to advertise for all positions for all commissions leaves me with no choice but to resign effective immediately. As a councilman I have no intention of applying for a position to which I was appointed to many years ago. The Council's action showed a complete disregard for the long term voluntary dedication and service by all of the current board members. I thought we were doing a terrific job and had established a team working relationship between Willard Johnson, Carol Watson and myself. I really enjoyed them and I think we have served the citizens of Chanhassen in an outstanding manner. - I don't believe the Council fully understands the responsibilities of the Board members. This is different from many commissions in that it has the authority to approve or deny a variance. Therefore, it is essential that the board members have a good understanding of the community, a substantial amount of experience in understanding the intent of the Zoning Ordinance. 1 Twelve years ago I was appointed by the Council to this board. At that time the Council felt that it was essential to have a councilman on the board and to provide the perspective that only a councilman can give. It is my recommendation that the Zoning Ordinance be amended to stipulate that a member from the City Council be appointed to serve on this board. I sincerely regret having to take this action but I am very frustrated at our major decision making process by the current council and think that this may be a good time to move on. I wish to say thank you Tam for your supportive 1 comments and the good judgment you portrayed at the February 8th meeting. Too bad some of the others weren't listening. I present that to you Mr. Mayor. I would like to go on to two items that came 1 up. Item 8(d) on the Council packet of February 8th. This is in regards to the Southwest Metro Commission. A commission of 6 people for the operation of the Southwest Metro Transit. We have a commission vacancy at the present time. Mr. Hamilton had to resign from this commission and I must say this to the Council. The Southwest Metro is in a demonstration period. It's a very experimental thing. We've just completed the first year of a 16 month demonstration period. It was very important for the Councils to appoint their mayor and a councilman to this board. Now Chaska chose not to do that because they had Gale Concannon, an Executive Director for the Metro Transit Commission and that was their candidate. Basically all of the commission members are either mayors or councilmen. We recently added a seventh position to the Transit Commission so that we would have another member for quorum purposes. We had a hard time meeting a quorum on several occasions and it was decided that we would add one more commission member at large and it would be a citizen. This citizen position would rotate between the cities so Chaska chose [-- a lady. She is a bus rider and it represents the ridership. That Commission membership will change to Chanhassen next and then it will go to Eden Prairie. For that reason, I really disagree with what has been laid out for us on the February 8th council agenda and the recommendation of our staff when it says, it is not required that a commissioner be a council member. That's true but I can only tell you that the people that represent their cities on the Commission - 1 City Council Meeting - February 22; 1988 1 must speak for their cities. Must be in a position so that they know the hot I issues in our communities. They must also be aware of what new developments are taking place. That's why we put the mayor from this city on that commission and a councilman. I submit to you until that demonstration period is over and until the Commission is up and running in very good swing, we ' should continue that. We should maintain a strong council representation on that commission. So I disagreed entirely with the comment that we should have a rider as our member for this commission. I can understand where Mr. Hamilton ' is coming from. That's why I resigned from the Board of Adjustments and Appeals. A councilman should never be judged by his peers. His peers are the voters. These are the people that elected you. It's very important in this ' particular case that we have a strong leadership position and it should not be a citizen. It should be a councilmember or the mayor himself that is appointed to the vacancy now created by Tom. I disagree with the advertisement for this position and I followed up with Beverly Miller, our administrator for the ' Southwest Metro today and it was her opinion and a comment we made when we started the commission that each of the cities would try to get their very best people on the commission to get it going. All of the other communities have ' done the same thing. There are currently two mayors on that commission. So she recommended that we continue with our emphasis on board members being from the Council. I can only say at this time that I think that we can go ahead and ' advertise but if you put someone who is not a councilman on that position to fill that vacancy, we're making a mistake. So for that reason, I'd like to take another look at this. I'd like to reconsider the commission approach to the Southwest Metro Transit Commission vacancy created by Mr. Hamilton and I recommend that a City Council member be appointed to that position. Any discussion? Councilman Horn: I think we have to look a the structure of each of our ' commissions. Certainly the intent of what was done here was a follow-up of what was done at the planning session that we had and that is to remove any doubt of having the good old boy system in the appointments of our commissions. ' The intent that I had when I supported that position in our last meeting had nothing to do with council positions on commissions. It was only in regards to non-council representation at those commissions. I think there is a totally ' different issue there. Commissions where we have a councilmember appointed, they are not in the same situation as the other appointments. I think when we have a councilmember representative, there's no point in advertising for that position. We know that we will pick one from our group to do that. Councilman Geving: If you state that tonight Clark, why didn't you say that on the 8th? That's an entirely new statement. ' Councilman Horn: The issue did not come up in that vein. The issue came up in terms of applicants for the Planning Commission and the other commissions. Councilman Geving: Not really because they're talking, in fact this whole section had to do with the vacancy created by the Southwest Metro. If you read your notes starting here on page 62, Appointments to Commission, we started out with the Board of Adjustment and Appeals and obviously that was three positions. Willard Johnson's, myself and Carol Watson's and you took off from there. I can quote you right here Clark. I would be in favor of advertising ' for all the positions, all of the appointments and then making our selection from all the interested people but I don't think we should delay the selection City Council_ Meeting - February 22, 1988 process before we set our criteria. If you think that I, as a councilman are going to make an application or any other councilman, and then be judged by this group whether or not he's going to be selected for that, I think that would be totally wrong. Councilman Horn: I don't think it's even applicable because where we had commissions where there's council representation, that clearly doesn't even apply and was not even a part of my consideration in that. Councilman Geving: Then that's why we should reconsider this because that was not stated on the 8th. Councilman Horn: I agree. In fact, it never came up in all of our_discussions when we planned for this, we were totally talking about non-council positions. That's why it didn't come up as an issue because it was not even considered as such, at least in my mind. ' Councilman Geving: Let's stay with the situation for the vacancy for Tom Hamilton on the Southwest Metro. Let's stay with that issue because that's the • first one out of the box. It's very important in my view to have strong Council representation. There's one other fact that I should advise you on. The cities themselves are totally liable. If the Southwest Metro gets in trouble financially. Each of the cities are liable for any overrun of cost and that's why a councilman or a mayor is very important to bring this information back to it's city and say, we are in trouble. We've got to come up with some money to support this thing. Mayor Hamilton: Let me just make it clear that the reason I resigned from the Southwest Metro Transit Commission was simply because I'm also on the Public Saftey Commission which happens to meet the same night at the same time. I can't be in both places at the same time. I did ask the Public Safety Commission if they would change their meeting date to a different night and they could not accomodate that request. I felt strongly about remaining on that commission as we're still in a growth process and I felt my services might be needed there more than they are on the Southwest Transit because it's moving along quite well. I'm not leaving it because I'm trying to leave anybody in the lurch. I can't be in two spots at the same time. I do agree, I think it should be a councilperson on there. We need to have a decision maker. Someone who can analyze things quickly and make the right decision. Councilman Horn: I think the other thing that Dale should be aware of is in our discussions at our planning session, we also said that we feel, at least most of us felt that the wave of the future is involved with groups like this where we're involved with other communities in our vicinity. I think that's going to become a more and more important way of getting things accomplished. Mayor Hamilton: You and I felt that way anyway. ' Councilman Boyt: I would like to say first, Dale not being at that meeting, it's certainly hard to pick up the flow of it reading the Minutes. You'll note on page 66 that Jay Johnson volunteered and was promoted to the Southwest Metro Transit Commission on a temporary basis. I think if we would have had your input that evening we might have made that permanent at the time since he expressed an interest. I think you should also note, page 67 in the Minutes in - 1 City Council Meeting - February 22, 1988 which we attempted, and I don't know if this happened with the Board of ' Adjustment and Appeals and the other bodies but to quote myself in the middle of the page, "I think it's important that we get the word of the people who we're advertising the positions for, who are currently in those positions, that we would like them to not interpret this as a vote of no confidence." The ' whole spirit of this was we were dealing with how do we appoint people to our commissions in the necessity to be consistent. I thought in making that statement that I was making it very clear that I didn't want people on those ' boards to feel that we were saying or that I was saying that I didn't support what they were doing. It was simply a matter of, I was very unhappy that we would advertise for one board position and not advertise for another. I didn't ' think that that was fair treatment and I still don't think that's fair treatment and I believe that's why the advertisement was done. I also have stated that it was certainly not fair treatment to advertise for a position that we had no intentions of filling without indicating in the ad that the incumbents were seeking to be reappointed. I don't want to generate 18 candidates for a position when I know the incumbents want to be reappointed and that they're doing a good job. So we tried to clear that up. I thought it was ' in the Minutes. I'm sorry that you took it the way you took it. Mayor Hamilton: One of the things that we discussed Dale, and we talked about this on our retreat also is that there is a need to do this and the reason I was opposed to it is because we have nothing in place to give us any direction at this time as to exactly what we're going to do. I don't have a problem with putting something in place but I still feel that we're trying to shift gears in ' the middle of something. You're trying to change and go a different direction and you don't have any direction to go that way. I'm not saying it's wrong to try and change. In fact, it's perhaps needed but we've got to have some way to get there. We don't have any way to get there. To just say we're going to advertise for these people raises all kinds of questions. Where do you advertise? How many times do you advertise? Do you advertise in all of the papers? Half the papers? One of the papers? Do you put it in the Post? Do ' you put it everyplace you can? Do you just put it on a bulletin board? All those questions haven't been answered and I think until they're answered, we don't really know how we're going to do it. Plus we haven't addressed the ' issue of how do you handle those people who are incumbents? Of course, there are a couple people here tonight who would like to speak to that issue. No matter what you say as to not showing any non-confidence in their past performance, when you say you want to advertise for the position for their term tthat's up, they're going to feel by saying that, just by saying it, they're going to feel that you don't have confidence in them and you feel they haven't done a good job. I guess those are still my reasons why I think we made a ' mistake and I think the whole issue just needs to be resolved. Not right now because we're in the middle of some of them. The city isn't going to suddenly turn sour if we reappoint people who are on these commissions to positions when ' their term is up and then let's get something in place so the next time we have some clear guidelines to go by and that the staff also has the clear guidelines to go by because they don't have them either. I think that was another one of the things we talked about that is not in place. We do not want to start giving staff direction to do something when they have no guidelines to do it. Councilman Geving: I agree Tom that we should have a procedure and I would whole heartedly follow that procedure. What irritated me in this particular case is that it, clearly we had people who were interested in continuing to i �7 City Council Meeting - February 22, 1988 i serve on commissions. There really was no vacancy to be filled. Where you have a clear cut vacancy, then we should follow the procedure for applying and getting an advertisement out and getting the candidates in and reviewing them and so forth. But where you have incumbents sitting in a commission and they clearly want to remain on the commission, they're doing a good job and the council knows they're doing a good job, then I'd say that we should also have a provision and a procedure for continuing to maintain their capability of staying on those commissions and not advertising and getting a whole bunch of people out there. Saying we've got two people that are already incumbents. We know they're going to apply. We're advertising for another two vacancies so the people that are already sitting there and then you get another half dozen applicants, now you've got 8 people vying for 2 positions and it's not fair. It's really not fair. I think that I agree entirely with Tom. There is a point in which you kick in the procedure if there is a vacancy of if the performance of an individual is such that you want to remove him or her but where you clearly have people that are doing a good job and want to remain on the commission and there is really no vacancy. Their term happens to expire and that's the only thing that's happened but they want to stay on the commission, then we should keep them on the commission. Councilman Horn: There's already a precedent for what we're proposing happening and that happened with the Planning Commission many years ago. When the Planning Commission members, of their own volition said, I think I should throw my hat in the ring along with every other applicant that comes in here. As a matter of fact, they've been operating under that mode. They chose to do that on their own so not every commission member feels that way. What we have though is a hodge podge of one commission doing it one way and another commission doing it another way and many times people think they should get on a commission the first time they apply and that just doesn't happen in most cases. People are getting negative feelings because we don't have a procedure. Councilman Geving: I think we need a procedure but let's not turn the tables over and make the mortar that I talked about turning to mush overnight. We've got to build on what we've done over a long, long period of time and put the procedure in place at the appropriate time. Councilman Horn: I think you're forgetting one thing Dale and that is that this body still makes those decisions. We can still choose on that basis. Just because we chose to advertise doesn't mean that we can't choose on whatever basis makes sense. I can guarantee you that that will be the basis that I will use when I make my decision. Mayor Hamilton: I'd like to get the comments, I know Carol Watson and Willard I/ Johnson are here to tell us their feelings about this issue and I guess I'd like to ask them at this time. Carol, would you like to? Carol Watson: My only concern with the Board of Adjustments and Appeals is ' that it's not like any other commission in the City. You don't make a recommendation, you make a decision. One of the Planning Commission members for instance has been in the city for 8 months. I don't feel a person like that, it's as easy for them to be in a position of making a decision. We don't make recommendations to this body. We make a decision and it stands. Yes, we do unless we deny. Bill, we can approve something and it lives. If we make a denial they always have a right to come to this body with their decision but ' i City Council Meeting - February 22, 1988 when we approve something, they can go ahead and get a building permit and do it. They don't have to come to the City Council. Willard Johnson: I've worked with this board and I've been on it for a number of years. I went through a lot of mayors and I went through a lot of council people. We've got the best working board we've had since I've been on this. I've never had any trouble with the council people. In the past we used to have Planning Commission members. 50%, or I should say more like 75%, the ' Planning Commission member never showed up. If you look back in the Minutes, ever since I've been on, it's just two people and you're not going to get a good working commission. Plus you've got to go out to the job site and there's ' a lot of time consuming. If you're going to get a person that's going to do that and waste his time, is probably not their choice of words but spend their time going out to the job site. Chanhassen is 22 square miles. Drive all over the city of Chan for 3 variances. Mayor Hamilton: What was your feelings, I guess both of you when you saw the process that had been suggested by the Council on February 8th? I was just ' curious what your feelings were and what you felt was happening. Willard Johnson: No confidence. Carol Watson: I guess I didn't really look at it that way completely. My concern was just advertising. I think the Board of Adjustments and Appeals is different. I think there should be some background. ' Mayor Hamilton: I think you're right. You've got a lot of background. The more experience the better on the Board of Adjustments and Appeals. Willard Johnson: When it comes out in the paper and you see advertising for three positions and we've been holding these positions, maybe we aren't the best. All of a sudden you see this come out in the paper, three openings, and it makes you feel about that high off the ground. Councilman Boyt: I take it that nobody contacted you to tell you about this? Councilman Geving: Not really. Barbara Dacy: Jo Ann called to see if you were willing to reappointed. I know she did. Willard Johnson: We were all contacted to be reappointed, yes. ' Carol Watson: Yes, in our meeting back in October we were asked if we were interested in being reappointed. ' Barbara Dacy: It was my understanding also that she did talk to you about the Council's action. ' Carol Watson: After it appeared in the paper. We had all read it. Councilman Geving: The statement that Bill read back here on page 68 wasn't part of what was given to these people. That's the problem. There was no explanation of really what had happened on the 8th. City Council_Meeting - February 22, 1988 1 Mayor Hamilton: Have the ads been put in the paper? Councilman Geving: Oh yes, they're in. ' Mayor Hamilton: Have there been any applicants come in? Barbara Dacy: Not to my knowledge. Mayor Hamilton: For any of the positions that were advertised for? Then it raises the question, where did you advertise? How long do we have to advertise? It just goes on. We don't have guidelines to follow. It puts us at a distinct disadvantage. Councilman Horn: We said it at the last meeting, that we advertise until we have enough candidates to fill the positions. Mayor Hamilton: We already have enough. We had enough. Councilman Hoyt: I think that Clark made the point that was the heard of the discussion in our last meeting which was, to fill positions without advertising was to imply something that wasn't true. The way to cover that in the short term was simply to advertise the position and the people were to be told that we were taking care of a procedural matter and not a matter of voting about whether or not we had confidence in the people in those positions. That was the heard of the discussion as I recall it. I'm sorry that it came out the way it did. That wasn't the intent. ' Don Ashworth: Point of clarification from staff. I think I've talked to almost all of the members. I know Willard and I have talked at length. I talked to Dick Wing and Candy Takkunen. The problem occurs is that you're talking about Monday night newspaper really out on Wednesday and we have so many commissions that by the time we got back to many of these people, they had already seen that. The other question becomes one of even stating what the goal was, like with Willard, we really need to have the meetings with the individual commissioners so they can hear from you what it is that we're looking for and goals, expectations, etc.. I know that Dick Wing accepted by comments. I don't know if he totally believed them. Mayor Hamilton: He didn't. He was very angry. I don't know what the Council's pleasure is. I guess everything has been advertised for and we'll need to deal with those very soon. We need to find some people or reappoint so I guess the staff will have to come back to us. Councilman Horn: I thought when this was on the agenda tonight that we were going to call it tonight. Councilman Geving: On the first issue, as far as the Southwest Metro is ' concerned, I'd like to see a councilman appointed to fill Tom's vacancy and that would be it because we are going to have a meeting on Thursday night. Councilman Horn: We have a temporary. Councilman Boyt: He's out of town. ' . 1 City Council Meeting - February 22, 1988 Councilman Geving: The only bad thing about appointing Jay is that I don't I know what his schedule is. It probably wouldn't be fair to appoint him full time for this as long as he's agreed to be a temporary. That might be good enough for now. ' Mayor Hamilton: I think we should talk to him and see if he's willing to take it on a full time basis. If he doesn't, I know that Bill would be happy to do it. I have your letter here Dale and I'm not willing to accept it so you're ' still on the Board of Adjustments and Appeals. Councilman Geving: So be it. ' Mayor Hamilton: There wasn't anybody who ever said that we felt that you were doing less than an outstanding job. I certainly feel that way and I hope that you will want to be reappointed to that commission which I believe you do. ' Willard Johnson: I think that's the way the whole Board felt. When it come out in the paper the way it is, I felt like no confidence. ' Mayor Hamilton: That wasn't the intent for any of the people. Carol Watson: I would like to be reappointed in case there's any confusion. Mayor Hamilton: The next item was the referendum. I wanted to just address ' that very briefly. It's not intended to be a debate or an issue that's going to be discussed by everybody. I'm just rather frustrated and I think it's time that somebody has something to say about all of the misinformation that is ' being circulated about the comunity. I think it's very unfortunate when you have people who have been previously elected to positions and those who are currently holding elected positions, take a position and put their name in the paper as being a part of a group who is certainly entitled to their opinion and thoughts about items on the referendum. However, when they tell falsehoods and are not in the least bit accurate with your information and leave other people in the community to believe things that are not true, I think it's extremely ' unfortunate and it's time for us to take a look at what is really occurring in our community and look at the people who have been elected. This thing has gotten completely out of hand with the bad information going out. One side ' countering the other on an hour by hour basis. It wasn't intended to be a debate. It's a referendum that was put together by a group of volunteer citizens of the community in all good conscience and faith that this was the best thing for the community to do and it's not an item that was intended to be ' debated or kicked around like a skraggy dog. Everybody has the right to vote the way they feel about it and to start doing a lot of name calling of myself and other people who have volunteered their times and effort, just isn't right ' and I wish it would stop. I'm very, very disappointed in the way some of the residents of this community have reacted to the whole issue. Enough said about that. ' Councilman Geving: As long as we're on that subject though Tom, are you going to talk about this? Is this something that's going to be sponsored by the City?