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1b. Subdivision and Wetland Permit, Lake Riley Woods South I CITY OF 1 \\...L,1/42# CHANHASSEN _ 690 COULTER DRIVE • P.O. BOX 147 • CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 1 (612) 937-1900 MEMORANDUM 1 TO: Mayor and City Council J FROM: Barbara Dacy, City Planner 1.74 DATE: April 8 , 1988 SUBJ: Lake Riley Woods South This item should be removed from the Consent Agenda to New ' Business so that the Council can discuss the outstanding issues on this matter. i 1 1 1 1 1 p 1 1 1 I \ C t C I TY 0 F P.C. DATE: March 16, l C.C. DATE: April 11, 1988 ���t �SS��t r ' Y CASE NO: 87-2 SUB 1 �"> 88-4 WAP • Prepared by: Olsen/v II STAFF REPORT il 1 PROPOSAL: . Preliminary Plat for 16 Family Single Lots on 77 II Acres 2 . Wetland Alteration Permit for Development Within 200 Feet of a Class B Wetland 1 0 LOCATION: South of County Road 14, approximately 4 mile east J of Hwy. 101, directly south of Lake Riley Woods Nortl ^ Won by Cy A:!m?r„s;- ; - APPLICANT: George Nelson Associates '=^,l::r°�-:._�� �' 1660 South Hwy. 100, Suite 428 ,_� _ J...^ µa l Minneapolis, MN 55416 : ;, : I_ _.3//E /P3' ■ PRESENT ZONING: A-2, Agricultural Estates ,- ACREAGE: 77 acres (gross) and 73 acres (net) 1 DENSITY: 4 . 6 acres per unit ADJACENT ZONING II AND LAND USE: N- A-2; Lake Riley Woods Estates S- A-2; Railroad track and vacant II QE- A-2; Great Plains Golf Estates sub. Q . W- A-2 ; single family residence 1 W WATER AND SEWER: Not available to the site. II . (f) PHYSICAL CHARAC. : The northerly portion of the site is cultivated and the southerly portion of II the site is a steep ravine. 2000 LAND USE PLAN: Agriculture 1 11 "41•17/7 . _______________ 'tF-;7.7."-Iiwiti, , , ^11/�iij �,/ LAKE „ip, ait,�p :4-ct4' - L D SF RILEY IMMOL : .' � c I I #14°P . 9E I ,171 111111111111 I/— . PONO, 97c 0 1`.:7 . 1 c--31, ..)--) / ...._._.____98( ,,,,f, c:F.pvc�. ,, R Ioc 1 v-1101,1. 111111N1 gir NE.l .1 / — -moo c Uh.g11 . O i I a 300 cc jk------ IlLiii,z, CREEKWOOD° la Erg 400 *allIMI M� f -=---�A .,_� ly 500 1 i i k 9 i� pi! v S \ OR�v� - "/•_s�� LOVO 600 i_ - _ies. F' tie mir 700 C I JR / CE ' 800 I /LAKE Gs NE , ( 900 1000 Lake Riley Woods South II March 16, 1988 Page 2 I APPLICABLE REGULATIONS I The application will be reviewed under the old ordinance regula- tions since it the application was made by the January 15 , 1987, deadline. The applicant has received two extensions from the City Council to the July, 1987 , deadline for preliminary plat approval . The most recent deadline for the applicant is July, 1988. Therefore, the requirements for this subdivisionta 2i acres per lot with 180 feet of street frontage. Each lot must provide two approved septic system sites and have at least one acre of buildable area, meaning 25% of less slope. Section 6 . 05 ( 5 ) (a) of the previous Zoning Ordinance requires a minimum lot area of 2 .5 acres in the R-la District. 1 The Shoreland Ordinance requires unsewered lots to have a minimum of 40 ,000 square feet, a lot width of 150 feet, a building set- back of 100 feet and a sanitary sewer setback of 75 feet. The Wetland Ordinance requires a 75 foot setback from the ordi- nary high water mark for a structure and a 150 foot setback for sewage treatment systems . REFERRAL AGENCIES , Carver County Attachment #1 Building Department Attachment #2 ' Fire Inspector Attachment #3 Engineering Attachment #5 11 BACKGROUND ' The application for the Lake Riley Woods South subdivision was submitted by the required deadline of January 15 , 1987 , so that it would be regulated under the old rural requirements . The City Council extended the deadline of July, 1987 , for preliminary plat approval until July, 1988 (Attachment #6) . 1 ANALYSIS The applicant is proposing 16 single family lots on 77 acres of 1 property zoned A-2, Agricultural Estates . The property is located south of County Road 14 . The northerly portion of the site is currently cultivated and the southerly portion contains a steep heavily vegetated ravine. There is a small Class B wetland located in the westerly portion of Lot 2 , Block 1 . 1 1 , Lake Riley Woods South ' March 16, 1988 Page 3 Lot Layout The 16 lots are located along an internal cul-de-sac from County Road 14. Two of the lots are double frontage lots between County Road 14 and the internal street (Lots 1 and 2 ) . The majority of the lots are located adjacent to the steep ravine to the south. The applicant has provided on the preliminary plat the total acreage for each lot ( the acreage of the lot removing the unbuildable acreage [ 25% slope or less ] ) . All the lots contain at least one acre of buildable area for the house, septic systems and well. The tree line of the site is shown on the preliminary plat and ' the lots are situated so that none of the vegetation will have to be removed as a result of the construction of the street. Certain house pads may remove a small amount of the existing vegetation. Since a large amount of trees will not be removed as part of the improvements to the site, staff is not recommending a tree removal plan be provided. ' Septic Systems Typically, staff does not permit review of the preliminary plat until the city soil consultants have reviewed the soil borings and have approved all of the lots as having two septic sites . The applicant wished to pursue the application at this time rather than having to wait until the spring thaw for the soil ' borings to be taken. Once the soil borings were approved in the spring, they could move ahead with the project. ' The applicant contacted Jim Anderson, city soil consultants, to determine whether or not preliminary plat review be initiated with approval conditioned upon final approval of the soil borings and two septic sites per lot. Drs . Machmeier and Anderson have visited the site with the applicant during the last year and determined that there was adequate area for the two septic sites . Dr. Anderson was confident that from their experience with the ' soils in that area, site visits and with the large amount of buildable acreage on each lot, that it would not be difficult to locate two septic sites per lot. With this guarantee, staff has agreed to initiate the preliminary plat approval. The applicant has shown the approximate location of two septic sites for each lot. The applicant has located the sites such that there is adequate area for construction traffic to pass by the septic sites to the proposed house pad. Staff will be con- ditioning the approval of the preliminary plat upon submittal of the soil borings and acceptance of two septic sites per lot by the city' s soil consultants . Lake a e Riley Woods South March 16 , 1988 11 Page 4 Streets and Grading and Drainage In the attached memo, the City Engineer addresses street construction, grading and drainage in detail and also addresses future street connections from the subject site. RECOMMENDATION The proposed preliminary plat meets the requirements of the pre- ' vious Zoning Ordinance with each lot have at least 2i acres and 180 feet of street frontage, contingent upon each site having two acceptable septic sites. , Planning staff recommends the Planning Commission adopt the following motion: "The Planning Commission recommends approval of Subdivision #87-2 as shown on the plat stamped "Received January 25, 1988" , subject to the following conditions: ' 1 . Soil borings are submitted to the city soil consultants and the consultants approve two acceptable sites per lot prior to final plat approval. 2 . The developer shall enter into a development contract with the City and provide the necessary financial sureties to guarantee the proper installation of these public improvements. 3 . The developer shall obtain and comply with all conditions of the Watershed District permit. 4 . A revised plan showing the changes in the horizontal roadway alignment, as discussed previously in this report, shall be submitted for approval by the City Engineer as part of the final planning review process. 5 . An 18-inch minimum diameter culvert shall be installed under- neath the proposed access onto Pioneer Trail, CSAH 14 . 1 6 . The proposed road file shall include a 0 .5% grade for a mini- mum distance of 50 feet prior to the access onto Pioneer Trail. ' 7 . Wood fiber blanket or equivalent shall be utilized on all disturbed slopes greater than 3 :1. 8 . The typical rural roadway section shall be revised to a 3-inch bituminous wear course as per the City standards for rural construction. " I I Lake Riley Woods South March 16 , 1988 ' Page 5 PLANNING COMMISSION ACTION The Planning Commission unanimously approved the preliminary plat for Lake Riley Woods South with staff' s recommended eight con- ditions and added the following four conditions: 9 . Trail and park dedication fees shall be accepted in lieu of trail and parkland and if the road or an emergency access is ' connected to Great Plains Golf Estates , the Park and Recreation shall review the for the trail along the proposed road. 10 . Submittal of stormwater calculations to determine predevelop- ment rates . 11 . Carver County shall review final construction plans prior to final plat approval. ' 12 . The applicant shall provide plans for a secondary access for emergency purposes with Carver County and City Engineer approval. The Planning Commission felt that some sort of future connection should be provided from the site, whether a full street 60 foot roadway easement or a smaller emergency access ( such as a 20 ' ' gravel drive) . It was also felt that a secondary access could be provided through the property to the north to CR 14 or to Great Plains Golf Estates . STAFF UPDATE The major point of concern by the Planning Commission was regarding whether or not a secondary access can be achieved to the subject site. ' An emergency access to CR 14 is not acceptable to Carver County ( similar reasons were conveyed on the Lake Susan Hills West issue) . ' The Engineer' s Office has evaluated options to make a connection to the street proposed in Halla' s subdivision. In order to accomplish the connection, a dedicated right-of-way would have to ' be created as part of the final plat process for Halla' s sub- division as well as reconfiguring this application. Connecting the two subdivisions offers advantages such as provides free flow ' of neighborhood traffic and providing easier patterns for street and plowing maintenance. Although not a public safety concern, given the existence of the subdivisions directly adjacent to one ' another, a street connection is recommended. It is unfortunate that staff was unable to anticipate the connec- tion during Halla' s review. A connection in the proposed loca- tion was not evaluated because of the lack of plans and • Lake Riley Woods South March 16 , 1988 Page 6 topographical information supplied by the Nelson apaplication. Mr . Halla has expressed objections to the street connection , option. CITY COUNCIL RECOMMENDATION ' Should the Council feel that the street connection is warranted, the plat should be revised and referred back to the Planning Commission. Should the Council approve the subdivision without the street connection, the following motion is recommended: , "The City Council approves Subdivision Request #87-2 based on the plans stamped "Received April 8 , 1988" and subject to the following conditions: 1 . Soil borings are submitted to the city soil consultants and the consultants approve two acceptable sites per lot prior to final plat approval. 2 . The developer shall enter into a development contract with the City and provide the necessary financial sureties to guarantee the proper installation of these public improvements. 3 . The developer shall obtain and comply with all conditions of the Watershed District permit. 4 . A revised plan showing the changes in the horizontal roadway alignment, as discussed previously in this report, shall be submitted for approval by the City Engineer as part of the ' final planning review process . 5 . An 18-inch minimum diameter culvert shall be installed under- neath the proposed access onto Pioneer Trail, CSAH 14 . 6 . The proposed road file shall include a 0 .5% grade for a mini- mum distance of 50 feet prior to the access onto Pioneer Trail . ' 7 . Wood fiber blanket or equivalent shall be utilized on all disturbed slopes greater than 3 : 1. 8 . The typical rural roadway section shall be revised to a 3-inch bituminous wear course as per the City standards for rural construction. 9 . Trail and park dedication fees shall be accepted in lieu of trail and parkland and if the road or an emergency access is connected to Great Plains Golf Estates, the Park and Recreation shall review the for the trail along the proposed road. ' 1 Lake Riley Woods South ' March 16, 1988 Page 7 ' 10 . Submittal of stormwater calculations to determine predevelop- ment rates . 11 . Carver County shall review final construction plans ' prior to final plat approval . ' WETLAND ALTERATION PERMIT The Class B wetland is located in the western half of Lot 2 , Block 1 . It is not designated as a Class B wetland on the City' s ' Wetland Map but upon site visitation it was discovered that it was a low area of the site with predominately canary grass vegetation. The wetland will not be negatively impacted by ' development within 200 feet. The area of Lot 2 provides enough area for the house and septic systems to meet the 150 and 75 foot setbacks from the wetland and the applicant is providing erosion ' control to the south of the wetland to protect it during construction of the street. RECOMMENDATION Planning staff recommends the Planning Commission adopt the following motion: t "The Planning Commission recommends approval of Wetland Alteration Permit #88-4 for development within 200 feet of a ' Class B wetland subject to the following conditions : 1 . No construction traffic will be permitted beyond the erosion control fence to the south of the wetland. ' 2 . The structure on Lot 2 , Block 1 , must maintain a 75 foot set- back from the edge of the wetland and the septic system must ' maintain a 150 foot setback from the edge of the wetland. " PLANNING COMMISSION ACTION ' The Planning Commission unanimously recommended approval of the Wetland Alteration permit with staff' s recommended conditions . ' CITY COUNCIL RECOMMENDATION Straff recommends the City Council approve Wetland Alteration ' Permit #88-4 for development within 200 feet of a Class B wetland subject to the following conditions : 1 . No construction traffic will be permitted beyond the erosion control fence to the south of the wetland. 2 . The structure on Lot 2 , Block 1, must maintain a 75 foot set- back from the edge of the wetland and the septic system must maintain a 150 foot setback from the edge of the wetland. " II Lake Riley Woods South 11 March 16, 1988 Page 8 ATTACHMENTS 1 . Letter from Carver County dated March 1 , 1988 . 2 . Memo from Building Department dated March 2 , 1988 . 3 . Memo from Fire Inspector dated March 1 , 1988. 4 . Memo from Park and Recreation Coordinator dated March 10 , 1988 . 5 . Memo from City Engineer dated March 10, 1988 . 6 . City Council minutes dated January 11, 1988 . 7 . Application. 8 . Memo from City Engineer dated April 8 , 1988 . 9 . Memo from from Scott Harr dated April 6 , 1988 . 10 . Neighborhood Road alignment maps . 11. Sight section maps . 12 . Planning Commission minutes dated March 16 , 1988 . 13 . Preliminary plat dated January 25 , 1988 . 11 JF.R CO�� ' \I/ CARVER COUNTY COURTHOUSE PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT / 600 EAST 4TH STREET CHASKA, 55318 1 (612) 448-3435 t41'NESOC 1 COUNTY OF CAQVEQ 1 March 1 , 1988 Ms . JoAnn Olsen City of Chanhassen 690 Coulter Drive P. O. Box 147 Chanhassen, MN 55317 RE: Planning Case 87-2 Subdivision Lake Riley Woods South 1 Dear Ms. Olsen: We have reviewed the information regarding this subdivision and 1 submit the following comments: Carver County has had previous discussions with Mr . George Nelson concerning this proposal . We have discussed the access location 1 which is acceptable . We would request the opportunity to review the final construction 1 plans before approval . Thank-you for the opportunity to submit our comments . 1 Sincerely , 1 William J . Weckman P. E . Assistant County Engineer 1 WJW/c j r 1 1 MAR 3 1988 r✓I I Y OF CHANNASSkly 1 1 1 Affirmative Action/Equal Opportunity Employer • 1 CITYOF CHANHASSEN \ , •, i - 690 COULTER DRIVE • P.O. BOX 147 • CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900 I MEMORANDUM i TO: Jo Ann Olsen, Asst. City Planner i FROM: Building Department DATE: March 2, 1988 SUBJ: Lake Riley Woods South, #87-2 Subdivision i The proposal for this subdivision was reviewed as requested. It should be noted that Lots 6 and 14 are at or near the maximum slope allowed for sewage treatment mounds. If mounds are necessary in this subdivision, these lots should be closely scru- tinized to determine if they are buildable. 1 i i i i i i Z i 1 1 CITY OF ■ CHANHASSEN 690 COULTER DRIVE • P.O. BOX 147 • CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 1 (612) 937-1900 ' MEMO TO: JoAnn Olsen , Csst. City Planner 1 FROM: Steve Madden , Fire Inspector DATE : March 1 , 1988 Subject: Lake Riley Woods (8.7-2 Sub-division ) Upon review of the site plan for Lake Riley , p p I have them to be in complaince with the fire 1 code. 1 1 c. c. Scott Harr Jim Chaffee I 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 . , 1 CITY OF i- CHANHASSEN 1 .-, 1 , . A i _ 690 COULTER DRIVE • P.O. BOX 147 • CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900 I ` MEMORANDUM TO: JoAnn Olsen, Assistant City Planner I FROM: Lori Sietsema, Park and Recreation Coordinate DATE: March 10, 1988 I RE: : Park and Recreation Commission Action on Lake Riley Woods South I The Park and Recreation Commission reviewed the site plan for Lake Riley Woods South at their last meeting. This area was also reviewed last year by the Commission for potential parkland and II it was determined that it was not centrally located enough to serve as a community park. I The trail plan identifies trail alignment along Pioneer Trail, which will be located on the north side of the road due to dif- ficulties within the Riley Lake Meadows development. Therefore, II it does not affect this development. The Commission was concerned with the length of the cul-de-sac Iand discussed the possibility of it becoming a through street. If such would happen, it would have an affect on their trail recommendation, as they would not recommend a trail along a cul- de-sac but would on a through street. I It is the recommendation of the Park and Recreation Commission to accept park and trail dedication fees in lieu of parkland and II trail construction. They have requested to review this proposal again if changes are made in the road design. II II I 1 1 CITY OF \ k CHANHASSEN AL) TM_ tii 690 COULTER DRIVE • P.O. BOX 147 • CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 • (612) 937-1900 1 MEMORANDUM ' TO: Planning Commission FROM: Larry Brown, Asst. City Engineer /1"" DATE: March 9 , 1988 SUBJ: Preliminary Plat Review for Lake Riley Woods South 1 Planning File No. 87-22 Sub. George Nelson Associates , Inc. Attached are the plans for Lake Riley Woods South dated "Received January 25, 1988" . This 16 lot subdivision is located on the south side of Pioneer Trail, County State Aid Highway 14, ' approximately one-half of a mile east of Trunk Highway 101. The site is composed of a rolling cultivated farm field with a ravine along the southern and westerly property boundaries. 1 Sanitary Sewer This 16 lot subdivision is outside of the Metropolitan Urban ' Service Area (MUSA) . Therefore, on-site septic treatment systems will be used. All proposed septic system sites should be staked and roped off prior to the commencement of any construction. 1 Water Service ' Municipal water service is not available to the site. Each lot will have to develop on-site sources for water. Roadway 1 The applicant has provided a 60-foot right-of-way which is in accordance to the City standards for rural construction. The maximum proposed street grade is approximately 5 . 0% as compared to the City' s recommended standard of 7 . 0% . It is recommended that the proposed roadway alignment adjacent to lots 12 , 13 and 14 be revised to show a straight horizontal alignment and the not the reverse curve as shown. Reverse curves do not provide sufficient time between two curves for a driver to 1 perceive and anticipate a reversal in horizontal alignment and therefore should be avoided where practical. The applicant' s 1 Planning Commission March 9 , 1988 Page 2 engineer has been advised of this recommendation and has agreed ' to revise the roadway alignment prior to final platting review processes . The typical section for rural roadways as shown on the plans ' shall be revised to a 3i-inch bituminous wear course and a 10-inch Class V base in accordance witht the City standards for rural roadways. Additional access to the west was examined to try to eliminate the proposed long cul-de-sac. Due to the ravine along the west and south sides of the site, only one alternative proposed right-of- way was practical (refer to Attachment #2) . The preliminary plat to the west, Great Plains Golf Estates, was approved by the City Council on July 6 , 1987 . The extension of the proposed roadway to the west would create a skewed intersection with the current cul-de-sac alignment. The alternative access through Great Plains Golf Estates would eliminate one lot. Due to the density and hazards of a skewed intersection, it is recommended that the right-of-way remain as shown on the planset dated January 7 , 1988. , If, however, the Planning Commission wishes to pursue this alter- native access, the proposed plat should be revised to form a "T" intersection with the alternate access . Grading The majority of the proposed grading is limited to the proposed right-of-way with the roadway side slopes being constructed just outside of the roadway. ' Drainage and Erosion Control A culvert with a minimum diameter of 18 inches shall be installed ' under the access onto CSAH 14 . The erosion control along the south side of Lot 2 , Block 1, shall be Type II erosion control ( staked hay bales and snow fence) . The plan shall be revised to include the City' s standard detail for Type II erosion control. Recommended Conditions 1 . The developer shall enter into a development contract with the City and provide the necessary financial sureties to guarantee the proper installation of these public improvements. 2 . The developer shall obtain and comply with all conditions of the Watershed District permit. i IPlanning Commission March 9 , 1988 I Page 3 I 3 . A revised plan showing the changes in the horizontal roadway alignment, as discussed previously in this report, shall be submitted for approval by the City Engineer as part of the Ifinal planning review process. 4 . An 18-inch minimum diameter culvert shall be installed under- neath the proposed access onto Pioneer Trail, CSAH 14 . 1 5 . The proposed road file shall include a 0 . 5% grade for a mini- mum distance of 50 feet prior to the access onto Pioneer Trail. I6 . Wood fiber blanket or equivalent shall be utilized on all disturbed slopes greater than 3 :1. I7 . The typical rural roadway section shall be revised to a 3-inch bituminous wear course as per the City standards for rural construction. 1 Attachments : 1 . Location Map I2 . Letter from Carver County I I I I I I tr- 1 I I I 4 col1� 1 • ,` „ CARVER COUNTY COURTHOUSE III PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT 600 EAST 4TH STREET (612) 448.3435 CHASKA,MINNESOTA 55318 f , . NNFE 50 COUNTY Of CAQVE March 1 , 1988 1 Ms. JoAnn Olsen City of Chanhassen 690 Coulter Drive P. O. Box 147 Chanhassen, MN 55317 RE: Planning Case 87-2 Subdivision Lake Riley Woods South Dear Ms. Olsen: 1 We have reviewed the information regarding this subdivision and submit the following comments: Carver County has had previous discussions with Mr. George Nelson concerning this proposal . We have discussed the access location which is acceptable. 1 We would request the opportunity to review the final construction plans before approval . Thank-you for the opportunity to submit our comments. Sincerely, 1 5e' William J . Weckman P. E . Assistant County Engineer WJW/c j r I MAR 3 1988 L11 Y OF CHANHAsst 1 Affirmative Action/Equal Opportunity Employer 1 1L • City Council Meeting - January 11, 1988 Councilman Geving moved, Councilman Horn seconded to deny the request for the street name change by Bill Streepy and leave the street name as Sinnen Circle with the stipulation that city staff contact the Rottlund Company, make sure that city maps are changed accordingly and that public safety people are notified. All voted in favor and motion carried. CONSIDERATION OF PLAT APPROVAL EXTENSION FOR RURAL SUBDIVISION: ' A. SEVER PETERSON AND GILBERT LAURENT B. ROBERT BURESH C. LAKE RILEY WOODS SOUTH Councilman Horn moved, Mayor Hamilton seconded to approve plat approval ' extension for rural subdivision for Sever Peterson and Gilbert Laurent, Robert Buresh and Lake Riley Woods South. All voted in favor and motion carried. ' ACCEPT STORMWATER MANAGEMENT PLAN Councilman Geving moved, Mayor Hamilton seconded to accept the Stormwater Management Plan prepared by Barr Engineering Company dated September, 1987 and that this plan be adopted as a guide to dealing with stormwater mangement within the study area. All voted in favor and motion carried. ACCEPT PLANNING COMMISSION RESIGNATIONS AND APPOINT NEW MEMBERS. ' Councilman Geving moved, Councilman Johnson seconded to accept the resignations of Robert Siegel and Howard Noziska from the Planning Commission and to send them a Certificate of Appreciation. All voted in favor and motion 1 carried. Councilman Boyt: I think it should be more than a Certificate of Appreciation. I think it should be some sort of a plaque or something. ' Councilman Geving: I don't know about that Bill. Not for Commission members. ' Councilman Boyt: They donate a lot of time. Mayor Hamilton: It's something that in the past we have always given letters of appreciation. It doesn't mean it has to stay that way. Councilman Boyt: It seems to me that a plaque is reasonably inexpensive. It's something a person might be more inclined to put on their wall. That's ' my thought. Mayor Hamilton: I think that's something that we need to have Todd !-- investigate possibly to look into something like that. A plaque and perhaps come back to us with some type of information written on it that we could look at and see if it would be a standard thing for all of our commissions. 19 41- (0 I 11 LAND DEVELOPMENT APPLICATION CITY OF CHANHASSEN 690 Coulter Drive Chanhassen, MN 55317 (612) 937-1900 APPLICANT: George Nelson Associates, IrER: Verne Gagne ADDRESS. 1660 So. Hwy MID - Suite 428 ADDRESS 10001 Wayzata Blvd. ' Minneapolis, MN 55416 Wayzata, MN 55343 Zip Code TELEPHONE (Daytime) 542-8474 TELEPHONE 545-2822 Zip Code' REQUEST: Zoning District Change Planned. ' arned. Unit Development Zoning Appeal __ Sketch Plan Zoning Variance Preliminary Plan Final Plan Zoning Text Amendment X Subdivision Land Use Plan Amendment x Platting X Conditional Use Permit Metes and Bounds Street/Easement Vacation Site Plan Review X Wetlands Permit PROJECT NAME Lake Riley Woods PRESENT LAND USE PLAN DESIGNATION Agricultural • REQUESTED LAND USE PLAN DESIGNATION - same 1 PRESENT ZONING R1 A Agricultural . REQUESTED ZONING same I- USES PROPOSED single fa*Pily his SIZE OF PROPERTY 77 acres 1 LOCATION Highway 101 and Pioneer Trail REASONS FOR THIS REQUEST 1 LEGAL DESCRIPTION (Attach legal if necessary) I 1 I City of Chanhassen Land Development Application II Page 2 FILING INSTRUCTIONS : This application must be completed in full and be typewritten clearly printed and must be accompanied by all information t I mationandor plans required by applicable Cit filing this application, Y Ordinance provisions . Before to determine the specific ordinance andfproceduralere City Planner quire applicable to your application. q meets FILING CERTIFICATION: I • The undPrsz ne ' . g d representative 6T. the ap 1 ;c. t that he is f milyar With the requirements hereby o callifies I applicable City •ordinances . procedural requirements of all I Signed By Ale., i .. + Applicant Date 1/12/87 I II The undersigned hereby certifies that the applicant has been authorized to make this application for the property herein described . Signed By //> ,2n/i� �/�.7 C ■ Date /12 1 /87 Fee ()wrier I I _ ' _. __ I pate Application Received ■ Application Fee Paid. y S^ . ti- City Receipt No. . * This Application . Board oflAdjustmentsland Appeals at their the Planning Commission/ meeting, Appeals at their • I • . - . . . . 11 CITYOF II , . A \i , CHANHASSEN .„L, 11 , , , . , , ,,. , • 690 COULTER DRIVE • P.O. BOX 147 • CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 ` (612) 937-1900 II I MEMORANDUM TO: Don Ashworth, City Manager 4.ayc I FROM: Larry Brown, Staff Engineer IIDATE: April 7 , 1988 SUBJ: Preliminary Plat Review for Lake Riley Woods South II Update to March 9 , 1988 Memorandum Planning File No. 87-22 SUB, George Nelson Associates On March 16 , 1988 , the Planning Commission approved the prelimi- 1 nary plat for Lake Riley Woods South dated "Received January 25 , 1988" subject to 13 conditions from staff . In summary, since the proposed cul-de-sac is approximately 2000 feet in length, con- II dition 4 of approval from the Planning Commission (refer to Attachment #1) directed the applicant to pursue an alternative emergency access to the site. II The surrounding topographic constraints of the site and proximity of existing roadways dictate three options: That the applicant pursue the construction of an emergency access which would extend from the westerly end of the proposed cul-de- sac to CSAH 14 . The Office of the Carver County Engineer has II stated that they would not support additional or emergency accesses onto CSAH 14 ( refer to Attachment #2) due to its collec- tor status. II In addition, a 20-foot wide gravel road used for emergency access would only create a maintenance problem for snowplowing (making sure that is is cleared by the homeowners during winter months) and a traffic enforcement problem. In light of this, we support the County' s position with regard to the construction of an emergency access onto CSAH 14 . I The second option is to revise the plat to show the east/west portion of the proposed cul-de-sac be extended across Lots 3 and II 4 , Block 1 (refer to Attachment #3 ) to the Great Plains Golf Estates plat. The extension of the roadway through Great Plains would also eliminate Lot 4 , Block 3 of Great Plains Golf Estates . The City Council approved an extension of Great Plains Golf II Estates on March 28, 1988. eS)-- I II ' Don Ashworth April 7 , 1988 Page 2 The applicant has provided a section through the existing topography ( labled C-D on the plan set ( refer to Attachment #4 ) . This topography would easily facilitate the road extension. The revised intersection should form a "T" intersection as shown in Attachment #4 ) . ' The final option is to accept the plat as originally proposed with the revisions as requested in my previous memo and as shown on the plans dated January 21, 1988 , received February 22 , 1988 . ' Although Public Safety has indicated that a 2000-foot cul-de-sac will not create an access problem, the extension of the proposed right-of-way as discussed in this report would better facilitate winter maintenance and traffic flow. Should the Council approve the plat as submitted, the plat should be approved with the conditions stated in my previous memo dated March 9 , 1988 subject to the 13 conditions as approved by the Planning Commission. Attachments: 1 . March 9 , 1988 Memorandum 2 . Letter from Carver County Engineer dated March 28 , 1988 3 . Right-of-Way Extension 4 . Site Sections 1 1 I I I I . II CITYOF II . , G CHANHASSEN � . 690 COULTER DRIVE • P.O. BOX 147 • CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 "' (612) 937-1900 II MEMORANDUM I TO: Planning Commission II FROM: Larry Brown, Asst. City Engineer 40 DATE: March 9, 1988 II SUBJ: Preliminary Plat Review for Lake Riley Woods South Planning File No. 87-22 Sub. II George Nelson Associates , Inc. Attached are the plans for Lake Riley Woods South dated "Received I January 25, 1988" . This 16 lot subdivision is located on the south side of Pioneer Trail, County State Aid Highway 14, approximately one-half of a mile east of Trunk Highway 101. The II site is composed of a rolling cultivated farm field with a ravine along the southern and westerly property boundaries . Sanitary Sewer I This 16 lot subdivision is outside of the Metropolitan Urban Service Area (MUSA) . Therefore, on-site septic treatment systems ' will be used. All proposed septic system sites should be staked and roped off prior to the commencement of any construction. Water Service I Municipal water service is not available to the site. Each lot II will have to develop on-site sources for water. Roadway The applicant has provided a 60-foot right-of-way which is in II accordance to the City standards for rural construction. The maximum proposed street grade is approximately 5 . 0% as compared II to the City' s recommended standard of 7 .0% . It is recommended that the proposed roadway alignment adjacent to lots 12, 13 and 14 be revised to show a straight horizontal , alignment and the not the reverse curve as shown. Reverse curves do not provide sufficient time between two curves for a driver to perceive and anticipate a reversal in horizontal alignment and I therefore should be avoided where practical. The applicant' s 'I iii 4 WI" I II Planning Commission ' March 9 , 1988 Page 2 engineer has been advised of this recommendation and has agreed to revise the roadway alignment prior to final platting review processes. The typical section for rural roadways as shown on the plans shall be revised to a 3i-inch bituminous wear course and a ' 10-inch Class V base in accordance witht the City standards for rural roadways. Additional access to the west was examined to try to eliminate the proposed long cul-de-sac. Due to the ravine along the west and south sides of the site, only one alternative proposed right-of- way was practical (refer to Attachment #2) . The preliminary plat to the west, Great Plains Golf Estates, was approved by the City Council on July 6 , 1987 . The extension of the proposed roadway to the west would create a skewed intersection with the current ' cul-de-sac alignment. The alternative access through Great Plains Golf Estates would eliminate one lot. Due to the density and hazards of a skewed intersection, it is recommended that the right-of-way remain as shown on the planset dated January 7, 1988. If, however, the Planning Commission wishes to pursue this alter- native access, the proposed plat should be revised to form a "T" intersection with the alternate access . Grading The majority of the proposed grading is limited to the proposed right-of-way with the roadway side slopes being constructed just outside of the roadway. Drainage and Erosion Control ' A culvert with a minimum diameter of 18 inches shall be installed under the access onto CSAH 14 . The erosion control along the south side of Lot 2 , Block 1, shall be Type II erosion control ' ( staked hay bales and snow fence) . The plan shall be revised to include the City' s standard detail for Type II erosion control. Recommended Conditions 1 . The developer shall enter into a development contract with the City and provide the necessary financial sureties to guarantee the proper installation of these public improvements. ' 2 . The developer shall obtain and comply with all conditions of the Watershed District permit. Planning Commission II March 9 , 1988 Page 3 1 3 . A revised plan showing the changes in the horizontal roadway alignment, as discussed previously in this report, shall be submitted for approval by the City Engineer as part of the final planning review process. 4 . An 18-inch minimum diameter culvert shall be installed under- neath the proposed access onto Pioneer Trail, CSAH 14. 5 . The proposed road file shall include a 0 .5% grade for a mini- mum distance of 50 feet prior to the access onto Pioneer Trail. 6 . Wood fiber blanket or equivalent shall be utilized on all 1 disturbed slopes greater than 3 :1. 7 . The typical rural roadway section shall be revised to a 1 3-inch bituminous wear course as per the City standards for rural construction. Attachments : 1. Location Map 2 . Letter from Carver County 1 1 1 1 1 11 1 1 1 1 - . . I ' 3 I 01- i...ii% "••.1 1/ . /(1913 .).\C-------'6. \ ...,..i. \\/•\iii0 '.S., •b, .,:: ,ty ......>'‘b.- ,• .....•/•• .' • 4111141t, . ••••• •>,,, :'—' —: . . .\\I is1(,.. . 1../.sb•...34 , I \ '--‹- •:,'`* \ 10 / . -...,,,, ''c' •i I X ' ,. , ..-.''''.:>.,,, \ '\,...., , ,,,,___411,.„.- ..• ,--, -•-•• .,. . ,.. ..c, ,....... ...„..• .-•,— 5.,., 14■ ••'-::>,s. . .., ,.t•4‘It*W •.!------- D,4:,., .•'-...,\ , \.0, a.. --- -c',*t. • ..t . ‘,..' nri' %, 4. s •- • ---._.- .... . -'.-.,\ • '' --- ---s 3/4 3.•••... "-.."•' ... ";. \_.„--:*\.--",--■ x.i ./, . . --- .\.... ., +I 2 N, .;%. "-.-_-‘) • * V----- , --),.. . ./. 4 ' - ''N' .'---- . 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(72,> :- .,_.' _ r 7//•1--,- •\- '‘. ,r7 c'•:-=:::"......_:___11,-...., I ;.......:•••••!. - • • OA .. -- • =ELM'''.. MUM '" .\ .• ' 1:::....:,,.--.........■•— • /.4—• • 1 . ••1 0::•'' i il,:, ism , „- \•—•,-------ff-- 1 • \\\ e I .......,_ .. 4 ..n."1". •••••••• .1-I.] i 8;•1 I ".•;-,,,, -/ a.--- 1 -TT--..7ff.)1-4. ---1.\ , „ 1 2 I . ., •, • , .4 ,.. —21; • '44 - q; %. '-, - • AI! .15,..•'1 AI LA/ 1 \•-,;..,/". Cf::, ' . FIH CA . • — 111 =--.• - \\W'• \\\f. '• 1.....,..-1 ,' '..-r- t. ) -'-"t if-p„ " . " .. (t .z",7%-. ' 1 :-- , — -- I •\-0- , \I s i• : . . ; • - . . 1 • --.‘"' 4; '1' ''' ?; ' ' • ' ''-i ss 4 "■:. --.— • .. 3 1 ;'-.'.” -_,-- - -..!' elleM5211. . • i ! ' I iik :-`.k•-. • •• n' —■ ; i i _ If ;' f qiii, "1.1.,4,c:•,[-- ,•-.., - ( • ._. ,(- ,... _ . I f 4 • '. i!.:,0,..y ATliz ,, o . -.. •- ', . 1 !. . r•=, :•,,..):. ...,----7 - \t4-1 i r. : •:-:'"f Mirratallail -<- - N -- -- - • lkir i ! • ': ‘";•.; .;7.4,- .: , - • I •.. ..:nm • I .I;\...,4-: e'--‘,..--':. • . e7= r-1 i 0•. O • l,3 ' i ...,.7.,..... ,.. • 111===n_ri a ..d.,;fr .1.(Z.'-'-''.-- --,-,1.`-';‘.":t:P/ 401 ' )•-%. - .. 1 '-'1 i::"'i ' . ffilla—k- t r" • 01 -.------1.,.. •••::.; I k p.. •••. ..7..• ...1 ‘ ...••••••• ! • s,.._.. .,. • — -- - ---2, A.,,...1.11 !•7 ,.• . ' ., '211.171 r'..."...• '! N. -,1277 7rs-1 I _ , ..:r.. •alla 41.. ..a- -. -4.•,. . — _,:, . CO/i4 1 : CARVER COUNTY COURTHOUSE 600 EAST 4TH STREET PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT / CHASKA,MINNESOTA 55318 (612) 448-3435 ,�►N E SO March 28. 1988 cot:\ m y Of C A QV E Q Mr. Larry Brown Assistant City Engineer City of Chanhassen 690 Coulter Drive P. 0. Box 147 Chanhassen, MN 55317 RE: Emergency Accesses onto County Roads Dear Mr. Brown: ' This letter is in response to our telephone conversation on March 23, 1988 concern- ing the position of the County allowing "emergency" only accesses onto County Roads. The Carver County roads located in Chanhassen are presently functioning as arterial and collector type roadways. In order to maintain that functional classification, some restrictions on access are necessary. The feeling of the County is that the internal road system should address the local access needs. Based on our conversation, it sounds like the planning commission is considering the installation of accesses designated as emergency use only. The planned use of the access would be very occasional, if used at all. The problem that exists would be the design of an access that would adequately serve an emergency vehicle, would not be an obstruction in the recovery area of the main route, and would be designed to discourage use as a service road. Our experience with occasional use accesses is that the use becomes less occasional and eventually turns into a normal use access. For this reason we do not allow ac- cess for woodpiles, storage sheds, and other homeowner utility uses. The construction of an emergency use only access is something the County could only consider on a case by case basis. The city would have to propose a design that ad- dresses the concerns as previously discussed. The request would also have to ad- dress the "enforcement of use" proposal of the City. If you have further questions or concerns about this matter feel free to contact me at your convenience. ,,Si/ncerely, 1 ejje, u, t:dee,47,32e William J. Weckman P.E. Assistant County Engineer MAR 3 1 1988 WJW/c j r CITY OF CHANHASSEN 1 Affirmative Action/Equal Opportunity Employer 1 ,. . . . . . . 0. , - . — • • • - f+ . 1 - • . • 0 .. • • -- ' "........' 1 ; '. ' • t116 " . • • • • • : - rI . . . . . . . . . . . 8 ti- B --. I T06. . � z - � I @ m o `^ , 6 2.1. 0 i x ' N [II 1 p-i M • • • " . : . 1 1 .r\ a .1 q .71 -10 1 F $ 1 F .1 . . . . I1 - - • • • • . . . I .P'' .--: • • I 0 : ta i 4.1:4 R gl. . . +.._.,prg,..z,Ftf,447 ... ... . . . ....• • • • • • • - . . . . . . . • • • • • • • • . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . j . . . . . . i . pp.. . .. „ :.... . . • - • - • - • • • - . - 3 ' • 0 art' i -1, . . . . . . . . . . .: . . . . . • i � Ir.)/‘ )1 • • g 0 - li • . . . . . . . E . 8 ; i. . i A- I - ....1 • : • • • • " t'\ . . 5 . . . . . . . . . : . . . Z • k • A � : . • . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : . . . . . . . . . . . . . filD i . . . . . . . . . . .i off . . li O • . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . i iii 1 AI om CO 1 • CITY OF CHANHASSEN \ 1/4, , , , , 69 COULTER DRIVE • P.O. BOX 147 • CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 ' (612) 937-1900 TO: JO ANN OLSEN ' FROM: SCOTT HARR DATE: 4/6/88 RE: LAKE RILEY WOODS SOUTH ' Jo Ann, Per your request, we have reviewed the attached plan, and see no specific need for a second access road. Thank you for seeking our input. OAT 1 1 CITY OF CHANHASSEN FEE (2, 7, . ''-i9 c.s • CHANHASSEN PLANNING DEPT.•q No - : W - I IL 1 S NN , , 0 DoT Z. ? ■. \ 1._o7 Z ipiall k-- 1-.4,Ke. RI1-.E( WOO17 5 Socn14 I I I I FL="TMRSorJ ZIMMERNIpIJ WNC»=EIJ I SURCI-IM.-1-7 Q I I 0 I -1-4 1--OT 3 Lc fr 4 1.....==.44. F[IL..e.( ■ ooDg 450u-r H `1- NO IIIIII iiii MN •I MI IN MN Mii MN MO MB OM • • MN • MN IIMI I . . (50 I .: - ? 1.Y.71o• N3C3 sO 1,13 ...t ..•■4,6, I ''?• gs: 1,1. • 41 - -----4•::., ...;..::.;!.• ---- • I: ki °..f 3\!. .....1: --------.7—r—---S-■.E -. ,. ?•,. ?i 6'04, I -''• i I • ..J -..--- 1 t° fro ' Ixio I '(-•' ill) \ , . , . I - I ..1 v) I Rui 3 ! 'S- - I , , •• 6, r.- I J i ‘.? 0 : I n ' ! a:1°' .10 J.. 7 0 -----___ I , i Atir j G • .§ ,, \......; C c-77.e'c') , I ------------_.,!. i `Pt / ' +N.- , I I )) •• 1----. I I I: Cle:104X0 1 ■ — ru.r.H.--_':-2), / Ti 4 .., 111 - I ■1■. / rr) I -- / I // /./ „., , n . 1 2 , 0 W tall 1111 4 l'•tN( ....I . I / / . 1 . , . ............__ _ 6 Ill 0,,„ .:, ..„,,,,, s , • . J / 3 / ' ,, _ 1 , ...k.../ o : .0 '7. , - / : ...../ , '7‘i /I / ,- , I —-,,, / ' •ci a. , 00 ..1 i . . - --_ :: - -- - -—e-- --------.1 - i— --Ol: -- ',,... f ,,..: .:•:, 1,. ,..,11,.:,•••,;'-.%,-.4 I I i Q'I____ ,I I 1 g ••.:.."' I i.i I• I•. _ I I I Planning Commission Meeting f March 16 , 1988 - Page 41 Emmings : To the south and to the east? Yes , I think so. Conrad: We might need a motion to do that or can that just be a simple II request? Dacy: That can be a request . , Conrad : It takes the City Council to fund the request so formally how. . . Dacy: I think what we would do is take that comment along with these II items to the Council on April 11th and see if the Council would allow extension of Mark's contract to include this study. I PUBLIC HEARING: GEORGE NELSON ASSOCIATES , LAKE RILEY WOODS SOUTH, PROPERTY ZONED A-2, AGRICULTURAL ESTATES AND LOCATED SOUTH OR AND ADJACENT TO CO. RD. 14 (PIONEER TRAIL) , 1/2 MILE EAST OF TH 101 : A. SUBDIVISION OF 77 .44 ACRES INTO 16 SINGLE FAMILY LOTS (MINIMUM LOT SIZE 2. 5 ACRES) . B. WETLAND ALTERATION PERMIT FOR DEVELOPMENT WITHIN 200 FEET OF A ' CLASS B WETLAND. Public Present: Name Address Brian Olson Ron Krueger & Associates, Applicant Jim Peterson Ron Krueger & Associates , Applicant Boyd Peterson 325 Pioneer Trail Jo Ann Olsen and Larry Brown presented the staff report on this item. Brian Olson: I 'm with Ron Krueger and Associates and I 'm here II representing George Nelson & Associates and this is Jim Peterson who is also here. I have a color up rendering of the drawing that may be a little bit easier to read than that one but basically we have no objections or any additional things to add to the staff ' s comments. We II are here for any questions . Boyd Peterson, 325 Pioneer Trail : My property line adjoins . I had a ' question on the road. It' s going to be going from their road over to Great Plains Golf Estates . Is that a road or a trail? Olsen: We were just looking at options of providing future connection ' and actually the only possible location would be along this line but that is not definite that that road will go through yet. Brown: If I may clarify that , I don' t mean to confuse you. I don' t think it's a future street connection. I think if the plat were to be approved, that would be a requirement if the Commission would so desire II I IIPlanning Commission Meeting March 16 , 1988 - Page 42 Ii to look at that option. It ' s not related to future road connection. That 's dependant upon the approval of the plat . Headla moved , Emmings seconded to close the public hearing . All voted in favor and motion carried. The public hearing was closed. Conrad : Before I open it up for the commissioners to talk, the property to the west has been subdivided and there are no easements to make the connection. If we wanted to make the connection , what would it take to change the plat that has been approved? Is that really an option? ' Olsen : It is an option. They just have preliminary plat approval . They haven' t received final plat approval . Conrad : Did staff or the Planning Commission look at that? Olsen: We did and we hit the ravine and we didn't know where the development was going to go so it was really hard to determine so at that ' time we did not pursue it. Emmings : We' ve never liked long cul-de-sacs . We' ve always been for ' connecting them up to neighboring properties and I certainly think we ought to reserve an easement across there to do that. Sometimes the City Council has gone along with us . Sometimes they haven' t but I would certainly want to encourage the City Council to make that a condition of this plat and try and only P y get a connection across there. The onl other thing I 've got is that if you look at Lot 6, Jo Ann , and really this would apply to a lot of these . All of them. 9 , 10. They've got all of ' the septic sites between the house and the street and we' re bringing driveways back and I assume that they will be absolutely forbidden to put a driveway across . Olsen : Oh yes . They' ll all have to be staked . Emmings: Okay, and they can ' t drive across those areas in the ' construction phase either to compact them. They' ve got to stay off of them. Olsen : And they should be preserved even after the house is constructed . Emmings : In fact there is a provision that says that isn' t there? They can ' t ever . And that ' s not going to create any problems with driveways? Olsen: What usually happens is that whoever buys that lot also has the option of finding another suitable site . If they want to line them up ' right along the lot line to provide them more room, they can do that . Emmings : I guess what I 'm thinking , if you just look at 12 and 13 for example. The driveway on 12 is going to have to be right hand side as we ' re looking at this and the driveway on 13 is going to have to be off to the left. The way it is, do we worry about driveway separations coming out on those streets or not? I Planning Commission Meeting March 16 , 1988 - Page 43 Olsen: No. Ellson : Just to echo the thing about the street . I 'm not sure I like the idea that one person has, even if it 's a plat approval or whatever, this whole thing is contingent that that one goes through. First of all , II the Great Plains Golf Estates has to go through. Everything has to be built just the way it plans before this can even get off the ground. That's kind of a lot of tying in to make your project go. Emmings : I don ' t think we' re saying that . Ellson: Well, he' s got to have that thing to connect it with otherwise, II if Golf Estates or whatever falls through than this would fall through because there isn ' t anything to go across there. Isn' t that right? Emmings : We only want to reserve an easement so it ' s possible to do it in the future if we want to. That' s all I 'm saying. Conrad : It' s a question. We have these standards that we keep screwing II around with on cul-de-sacs. It' s kind of tiring. Ellson: We' re not being consistent , yes . , Conrad: The idea that we' re party to is that it's unsafe to have a long cul-de-sac and we continually, almost every week, have long cul-de-sacs. I don' t know Jo Ann. Obviously, it ' s tough to plan in advance and make connections in some of these areas , especially in larger areas like this but we do have a standard out there and that standard says it ' s unsafe. Yet we' re saying , it' s unsafe but we' ll let this happen because we' ve already granted preliminary plat approval to something else and I don ' t know, we still have a chance to connect and if we really buy that standard that it' s unsafe to live on a cul-de-sac that' s longer than 500 feet and that ' s going to injure somebody, we'd better to stick to that or else we should change our standard. We kind of are believing the staff' s perspective that it is unsafe . We hear all these emergency folks tell us that it is unsafe. Here we go, we' re allowing an unsafe development to go based on opinion. Olsen : The recommendation should be to preserve that . ' Conrad: It' s not only to reserve it, it ' s to make the connection. I don ' t know, given what the standards are. If there' s no way for emergency vehicles to get in there, we' re creating a dangerous situation. I don' t know how I can resolve that in my mind . Headla: That bothers me. I think there is an alternative and I 'm sorry II we didn' t bring it up at our last meeting . Remember the church over by McDonalds . We said all you needed was like a hard gravel road. If we II ask staff to try and develop something here but give them an alternative. Try to come through here and you probably have to acquire some land but come through here somewhere with that type of road and he can put a chain across it. The fire trucks can get the chain down. It would stop cars from using it but if he would have a firm surface from here through here, II • II Planning Commission sszon Meetzng March 16, 1988 - Page 44 l ' 20 foot right-of-way or whatever the Fire Department would need , wouldn ' t that satisfy our safety requirements? Conrad : It would satisfy the standards that we' ve been trying to follow. Headla : And like Lake Susan, if we would have just asked the fellow to put in that type of thing, at least temporary, I think it would have been alright. Ellson: Just like a fire escape road that' s just used in case. Headla : Yes . Olsen: We did look at that option. . . Emmings : And would they have problems with gettin g another entrance on that road from the County? Olsen: Exactly. We looked at that too. ' Headla : As an emergency road? Ellson: Maybe if we just told them it ' s limited use like that . fBrown: No, they would still object . Olsen : The best direction would be going to Great Plains Golf Estates . ' It ' s level there. It almost lines up with another future road. That really could work out the best . The problem is with Great Plains Golf Estates, I don' t know if you can follow this, this is showing the existing connections , but Don Halla is proposing to extend their deadline for final plat approval. They just do want to even- develop it for a long time. The easement would be there for a long time. I don ' t think we do have a set length of 500 feet. I think that ' s what one of the problems ' is , is that is real ambiguous . The definition of what length of a permitted cul-de-sac is . Emmings : But this one is long enough to be in the category. It ' s over in the red zone. I know we've talked about 1, 500 as being too long before. I can remember that . ' Headla : We gave up on that too easy. You can come up CR 14 , part of the , proposed driveway. Then you don ' t have to worry about the access . It isn ' t something we ' re going to be using all the time. It looks like I ' think it was right at the curve. I think there ' s something there that we could develop. Brown: In comment to that . I agree with you that we would like some .� alternative access. The problem being, one of the problems that I will mention is Carver County reviewed this access point onto CSAH 14 with regards to sight distance. It ' s very tight. Very tight. They did come back with a recommendation that the access onto Pioneer Trail would be acceptable and would meet MnDot ' s guidelines . I would doubt, speaking 1 Planning Commission Meeting March 16 , 1988 - Page 45 C II off the top of my head , I would doubt an alternative accessing that I general vicinity would meet those sight line requirements . Again, that would have to meet MnDot' s approval . Headla : But if you' re coming off an existing road already, a driveway. I Brown: Where is the road that you were. . . ItOlsen : Where this cul-de-sac will be? That ' s where they' re realigning CR and they are proposing to put in a cul-de-sac. When the County realigns CR 14, they are proposing to also develop this cul-de-sac to service ail the , lots that are loosing their frontage. It doesn't show up here but that's where it would go, right through this guy' s property. II Batzli : I had a question for Jo Ann. Is this letter from Carver County regarding the access point or is that what this is solely in regards to? Brown: Correct . ' Batzli : Have they reviewed the final construction plans before approval? II r Brown: They' ve reviewed this . Batzli : What are they actually requesting here is I guess my question. They would like another opportunity to look at something . Olsen : That ' s one of their new conditions that is in all the letters II now. They just want to see what was finally approved by the City but they always have to give the access permit so they always have to see the final entryway plan. 1 Batzli : Is that something we should be including as a condition? Brown: Being that they are covered by the access permit, it ' s solely up II to the feeling of the Commission. Olsen: It' s a reminder to us . I Brown: I think their main intent there , a lot of times when plat approval, their feeling is a lot of time in plat approval there may be items missed such as side slope grading at the culvert entrance , etc. . II Minor details that they want to make sure they have their handle on. Batzli : I guess I would suggest maybe as a reminder to us , that we do include that as a condition. Another question I had, is your condition II to straighten out the reverse curve, number 4? Okay, so that ' s already been included. I r '� Brown: Yes . Batzli : I also agree, not to overharp on it because I think I did enough 11 last agenda item on the subject but I guess I 'd like to see at least to II Planning Commission Meeting March 16, 1988 - Page 46 1C ' preservation of right-of-way. I 'd like to be consistent . Beadle: I think we've got to have another access at the north end of the cul-de-sac . If we can give them two options or more, all the better but I think he should be obligated to come up with something. Ellson : Explain to me what the difference of saying reserve a right-of-way versus . . . Emmings : We' re reserving an easement for a road . ' Conrad: So just in case. Ellson : But it doesn ' t tell him to make a road? ' Conrad: No. So I think we can either have language in our recommendation to reserve it and say that sort of gets us off the hook with our standards but it doesn' t force anything to happen. Or we can make it an absolute . We think a second access should be found . ' Emmings : But if we do it along the route that we' re talking about, of course it will go to the edge of their property and it will stop and it will be a road to noplace until that other development is done. What f you ' re saying , as far as what I hear is if we reserve the easement , at least we' ve got the potential for connecting it up later on. But if we demand that they have a second access point , that ' s going to have to come off CR 14. And it' s not going to happen because of the County if I hear ' what Larry is saying . So there we' ve got an impossibility. Conrad: I guess I don' t know that . I 'm sure Larry' s feeling is, I don' t know that Larry has ever gone or said this is an emergency entrance only that is chained and will only be used by the Fire or Police. Emmings : But they don' t even own that property up there. We' re asking them to put a road through property they don ' t own. Conrad : I honestly don ' t know where it would go. I hear what you ' re saying. Brown: If I may clarify the position before you may make a motion. My condition so states , at least in the body of the report, that if the 1 Planning Commission wishes to pursue the alternative access , then the plat should be revised to form a "T" intersection with that cul-de-sac, R the end of the bubble. My concern is if in fact the applicant were to pursue putting a road through to Great Plains Estates, and any other conditions , the intersection created there would create an askewed intersection and ultimately a hazard . Conrad : Larry, we' re talking about an emergency entrance. We' re not talking about an ongoing road. Ellson : It ' s not even the same material . Usually just gravel . Planning Commission Meeting 1 March 16 , 1988 - Page 47 i Brown: If it' s an emergency access only, then there would not be a problem with it. If the Council 's wishes were to pursue a 50 foot roadway easement , then I would ask that it be conditioned upon that statement. Headla : What happened at the Council? Did they look at Lake Susan Hills? Olsen : That hasn ' t gone in front of them yet . Headla: Okay, so we don' t know how much the Council is going to back us II up on emergency fire lanes . Batzli : Based on my experience, they would. Headla : However , a few meetings before you came on. Batzli : This was way prior to when I came on. It was through my neighborhood . Headla : I still remember over on the southeast side of Minnewashta . Conrad: Would we want language in here that would basically say that we reserve some right-of-way for a second access for emergency use only? Is that the intent of what we'd like to do? Headla : If they just reserve it , he doesn ' t have to improve it . Maybe there' s a little swamp or something so a fire truck couldn ' t get through 1 there. Instead of reserve, provide? Batzli : But it can ' t be provided until what , when and where we' re going to require it to be provided. It may not be able to be provided right now other than to CR 14. Conrad: Well , we can' t even get there. 1 Headla : I think we' ve got to take the position here because other builders are going to look in and if we let this one go through , just like this in a day, we might as well forget about the whole thing . Do we 1 mean it or not? Emmings : We can vote it down on that basis . Make a motion to vote it down and explain that the reason is simply because of the long cul-de-sac or maybe do the same thing a little more positively, although I don ' t think it' s any different. Maybe make a motion that it pass contingent upon the developer finding a second access acceptable to the City planning staff and City Council by the time it goes to City Council . Conrad : I think that ' s a good way to do it. 1 Olsen: When you say access , are you talking about a roadway easement or? 1 Planning Commission Meeting March 16, 1988 - Page 48 ' Emmings : A solution to the problem that ' s okay with city staff and City Council . Brian Olson : I guess I 'd like to maybe get a clear understanding about the sort of things we' re talking about. I guess it seems like the main concern here is the connection of this long cul-de-sac somewhere else outside this property. Emmings : No . The concern, just to maybe speed this up, the concern is the length of that road and with emergency vehicles getting to property owners who are at the end. If there are vehicles blocking that road or snow blocking that road or whatever. We always like to have a second way in. That ' s the issue . Brian Olson : Is the concerns for the safety, like if this was in a normal say smaller lot subdivision, it would have numerous more lots along the length of this cul-de-sac . If you would take a normal 500 foot long cul-de-sac with their 90 foot wide lots along there, I believe you 'd end up with 11 or 12 lots . This has 16 lots so we' re talking 6 additional single family houses that would be on this long cul-de-sac as compared to the normal city standards of 500 feet which would be the smaller lengths . Conrad : Emergency wise , you still have to get to that . It ' s a distance IF issue. The thing that we are struggling with is we' ve always had some kind of a standard saying cul-de-sacs should not be longer than this simply because we can ' t get emergency help to the people there and that ' s ' what we' re dealing with . Here I don ' t know how long your cul-de-sac is but it' s a long one. We set precedent. Everytime these come in and we say you don ' t need it , then I guess if you don ' t need it and we ' re not worried about somebody at the end and reaching them in a tornado or whatever , I don ' t know if the City is doing it ' s job of making sure that everybody is going to be provided their emergency service adequately. That ' s what we' re struggling with . No matter how many houses , I think ' your point is there are fewer houses in this area but we still have to get help to them. ' Brian Olson : May I ask Jo Ann or Larry maybe can help me out on this . This plat has received plat approval and the Council did ask for a change for revision in their preliminary plat . Does that constitute a major change or a minor change? To provide an access or does that get into the ' condemnation of a lot? Olsen: It's a major change. Conrad : I don ' t think those on the Planning Commission are saying you have to have a fully improved road. We just want to know that there' s a flat piece of land that this fire truck or vehicle can get over and when that part is blocked, we want to be able to get that vehicle there. Therefore, we' re not , I don ' t think on either your property or , I don' t know that it ' s condemning or taking a piece of land. I think it' s putting a right-of-way there and it' s going to make sure that it ' s a Planning Commission Meeting 1 March 16, 1988 - Page 49 passable right-of-way but I don' t know that we' re taking property that ' s I useable. Headla : From the proposed Great Plains Golf Estates , would it be possible to put like a 20 foot right-of-way? They really don ' t need property as such. If we come through on a dividing line, take 20 feet off of each side just so they can drive a vehicle on? Brown: Right now the possible access through Great Plains Golf Estates is limited by the topography. The ravine cuts up into the lot. Headla : That really is not a practical way to go Larry? 1 Olsen: There is a flat area . There also is an existing road on Great Plains Estates but it ' s being used by the nursery. So if you ' re just talking a small gravel access . . . Headla : That ' s on the very south side isn' t it? ' Olsen: There is an existing drive here. Brown: There ' s no doubt that the applicant' s provided a section through II here, that this is fairly flat. Again , my only concern was we obviously would be affecting this building pad and this building pad is limited due to the ravine which cuts in through here. From what I 've seen , it ' s not going to be easily remedied by that. Whether it 's possible. . . Conrad : I guess we can' t get into designing right now. We' re pretty lousy at that but maybe we put in some terms where we ask the City Engineer and the developer to provide a plan for providing emergency access for the short and long term. Then you can do it and then the City is making their decision as to what kind of emergency service the people at the end of the cul-de-sac should have. Headla moved , Batzli seconded that the Planning Commission recommend approval of Subdivision #87-2 as shown on the plat stamped "Received January 25, 1988" subject to the following conditions : 1. Soil borings are submitted to the city soil consultants and the , consultants approve two acceptable sites per lot prior to the final plat approval . 2. The developer shall enter into a development contract with the City and provide the necessary financial sureties to guarantee the proper installation of these public improvements . , 3. The developer shall obtain and comply with all conditions of the Watershed District permit . 4. A revised plan showing the changes in the horizontal roadway alignment, as discussed previously in this report, shall be submitted for approval by the City Engineer as part of the final planning review process . Planning Commission Meeting March 16 , 1988 - Page 50 t 5. An 18-inch minimum diameter culvert shall be installed underneath the proposed access onto Pioneer Trail , CSAH 14. 6. The proposed road file shall include a 0. 5% grade for a minimum distance of 50 feet prior to the access onto Pioneer Trail . 7. Wood fiber blanket or equivalent shall be utilized on all disturbed slopes greater than 3: 1. 8. The typical rural roadway section shall be revised to a 3-inch bituminous wear course as per the City standards for rural construction . ' 9. The applicant shall pay park and trail dedication fees in lieu of parkland and trail construction. ' 10. If a road connection goes through to Great Plains Golf Estates , the Park and Recreation Commission shall review the plan for possible trail connections . 11 . The applicant and City Engineer shall work together to develop an emergency vehicle right-of-way. L 12 . The applicant must provide calculations verifying the pre-development run-off rate. 13 . Carver County shall be given a chance to review the final construction plans . All voted in favor and motion carried . Headla: The function of our Class B wetland is really just to delay water from flowing down so even if it' s a lawn, it ' s going to serve the purpose isn ' t it? 1 Olsen : The vegatation will be preserved and they won ' t be able to fill it in and mow it. Headla : That ' s not going to happen . Why is it such a poor Class B wetland now? Olsen : It ' s just a low area in the ground that just happens to have Iwetland vegetation. Headla : Low area and they' ve plowed into part of it. My point is , the owner has gone into it already and if it becomes a lawn. Olsen : It won ' t become lawn. It ' s being preserved. Headla: Go out there in 5 years and it' s going to be a lawn but that ' s not necessarily bad is it?