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CC 2014 11 24 CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING NOVEMBER 24, 2014 Mayor Furlong called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT: Mayor Furlong, Councilman Laufenburger, Councilwoman Ernst, Councilwoman Tjornhom, and Councilman McDonald COUNCIL MEMBERS ELECT: Elise Ryan and Dan Campion STAFF PRESENT: Todd Gerhardt, Laurie Hokkanen, Paul Oehme, Kate Aanenson, Todd Hoffman, and Roger Knutson PUBLIC PRESENT: Emily Willenbring 1536 Beachcomber Boulevard, Waconia Cortney Buesgens 1351 Peitz Avenue, Waconia Gabi Schiffler 1428 Beachcomber Boulevard, Waconia Josh Mohling 1316 Beachcomber Boulevard, Waconia Ryan Pass 7650 Ridgeview Way James Brudos JMBC, 14846 Timber Hills Road, Minnetonka th Terry Atherton 2082 West 65 Street th Chris Jerdee 2081 West 65 Street th John Favorite 2080 West 65 Street Peg Trager 2080 Crestview Deb Pittman 6500 Galpin Boulevard th Bill Ashenbach 2041 West 65 Street th John Corey 2061 West 65 Street Mayor Furlong: Thank you and welcome to everybody here in the council chambers as well as those watching at home. We’re glad that you joined us this evening. At this time I would ask members of the council if there are any changes or modifications to the agenda. If not, without objection we’ll proceed with the agenda as published. PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: Mayor Furlong: First item on our agenda this evening, I’d like to extend an invitation to everyone, residents and businesses, friends and neighbors to join us for our annual Tree Lighting Ceremony. With the holiday season approaching, the annual Chanhassen tradition to light the 2014 Christmas Tree and city lights here in City Center Park. Presented by the City of Chanhassen, Buy Chanhassen, Mustard Seed Landscape and Garden Center, and others. I invite all residents, their families, friends to join us this, let’s see a week from this Saturday. Saturday, th December 6 beginning at 5:00 until 6:00 in the plaza out here at City Center Park right by City Hall. Residents of all ages will be here enjoying the activities of lighting the city park. Refreshments, caroling, gingerbread house displays, live reindeer, a special visit from Santa Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 Claus. It’s a fun event. Great family activity. It’s free. No registration is required and we’ll th look forward to seeing everybody there out at City Center Park Saturday, December 6 at 5:00. If you have any questions feel free to contact City Hall. With that I’d like to move onto the next items on our agenda. CONSENT AGENDA: Councilman McDonald moved, Councilwoman Ernst seconded to approve the following consent agenda items pursuant to the City Manager’s recommendations: 1. Approval of City Council Minutes dated November 10, 2014 2. Receive Park and Recreation Commission Minutes dated October 28, 2014 3. Approval of Final Development Plans for the Chanhassen Pioneer Cemetery Resolution #2014-77: 4. Approval of Resolution Certifying Hookup Charges to Property Taxes. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS. None. LAW ENFORCEMENT/FIRE DEPARTMENT UPDATE. Mayor Furlong: Good evening Lieutenant. Lt. Jeff Enevold: Good evening Mr. Mayor, council. A few slides for you tonight. Okay. Thanks Vanna. Just a reminder for the folks watching at home and here in the audience, we have thst our holiday DWI enforcement wave that’s beginning November 26 through December 21 and you may be asking why do we do this over the holidays? Are the cops a bunch of Scrooges and don’t like holiday cheer. Anyone to have any fun. That’s not true but what is true is persons are more likely to die in an alcohol related crash during the holidays than any other time of the year and 40 percent of the traffic deaths during the holidays involve an impaired driver so cops support holiday cheer but remember the simple rules. If you’re drinking don’t drive. If you’re driving don’t drink and you shouldn’t meet us on the roads at all. The next thing I want to do is just talk a little bit about the city work plan goals and some successes that were related to them this year. First one is under our resource management and the goal is to provide public safety services in an efficient, cost effective manner and one of the bullets says that we’ll be good stewards of the taxpayers money without compromising public safety. If you can go to the next slide please Kate. So what I did is I did a, I made a chart of our overtime since 2007 to 2014 as th of November 26 and you can see that this year we’re 31 percent under last year’s hours as of th November 26 and if you take the current rate of pay there’s about 1,100 hours that would be allocated to overtime so we’re doing a really great job this year and I’ve got to give credit to the sergeant’s management of the schedule and they’ve done it without compromising officer safety or public safety so kudos to them. The second work plan goal I’d like to talk about is the community oriented policing and it talks about empowering the businesses, schools and citizens 2 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 of Chanhassen as partners in identifying and solving community problems and one of those ways we did it is to inform and educate the businesses on crime trends and I’ve got a great call for service to share with you that really highlights this goal. In August Beth Hoiseth and I recognized a crime trend that was occurring in our community and it was the grandparent scam, and I know we’ve talked about it here before and we’ve actually recognized someone for helping us with that. That’s where a person would receive a phone call from somebody pretending to be their grandson or granddaughter and saying I’ve been arrested by the police. I need some money to get out of jail or out of trouble and the caller requests to be paid in green dot money cards because once that’s activated it’s untraceable. Beth and I visited the businesses that carry the green dot money pack cards and advised them of the trend and helped them educate their employees and we asked them to place this warning sign up at the counters in their stores and th they agreed to do that. And on November 12 at 9:46 a.m. one of our deputies responded to the CVS Pharmacy. Spoke to an 80 year old male resident in the store, or a male inside the store. The elderly male relayed the story to the deputy that he received a phone call from someone claiming to be his grandson. The caller told him that he was out drinking with friends and was stopped at a road block by the police. He told them that he was just under the legal limit but he had to pay a $1,000 fine so his record would be clear. The elderly male grabs his keys, jumps in his car, drives over to CVS. Grabs two $500 dollar green dot cards. Walks up to the counter. Sees this warning sign and says, I think I’m being scammed. Calls our office. The deputy was able to get there and verify that it indeed was a scam. Just after this had happened the deputy stopped in my office and told me about the story and I just got a big smile on my face and it made my day because I realized that the implementation of our work plan is really starting to pay dividends here so I share this story because I want you to know that the work plan is just not you know words on a piece of paper and we don’t stick it in a file drawer and forget about it. We look at it every day and make sure that we’re working towards getting these goals accomplished and we’re fortunate here in Chanhassen because we have a great team of deputies that understand that and they’re committed to accomplish these goals every day in their work plan so any questions of me Mr. Mayor or council? Mayor Furlong: Thank you Lieutenant. Any questions for Lieutenant Enevold? No? Very good, thank you. Lt. Jeff Enevold: Thank you. Mayor Furlong: Thank you for the great stories and feedback. It’s good to hear. Chief Johnson with the Chanhassen Fire Department is here this evening. Good evening Chief. Chief Don Johnson: Mayor, council, good evening. My report for, through the month of October. We’re at about 516 calls through October which is about 15 percent up from where we were this time last year. I broke those down, does this work now? Yeah that kind of works. We had 36 for the month of October which is a little below what our monthly average has been for the year. The breakdown in front of you, we had 2 fires. One was a dryer fire. Luckily contained to the dryer and the other one was a cooking fire. We had 17 medical responses which included 4 car accidents, 3 of them with injuries. The hazardous conditions were hit gas lines and our service call for October, we were out for several hours with Carver County Sheriff’s office assisting with searching for a missing person so those are our main line calls for the 3 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 month. That basically shows our monthly breakdown through this year. We still go back to our major month of July that was our big swing for, or I’m sorry June. That was the big swing for this year but we seem to be falling now in line with more general call responses that we see for the season. Seasonal stuff. Kate. And then where we’re sitting right now with projected we should be at around 624 calls for the year if we stay on pace for where we’re at right now which again is an upswing from last year’s 573. Then the last one. This probably isn’t as easy for the general to see out here but on your screen we’re still running about 42 percent of medicals for this year, which is pretty consistent with the years that we’ve had for the past 5. For the training this last month, we worked a lot with our medical again. One of the things that we started working with was health and fitness. The highest rate of fire fighter death is due to cardiac and I’m pretty proud of our group over there. We’ve got a very fit group. We take it very seriously and we’re actually starting tomorrow, or Wednesday we’re all being assessed. There’s 22 of the 48 volunteers that are stepping up to do a fitness competition with the Chaska Fire Department so health strategies is coming in. They’re going to do a pretty extensive assessment. We run through an 8 week fitness program and our goal is to beat the Chaska Fire Department with improving our BMI. Improving our respiratory function and the health strategies is actually getting pretty prominent in the fire service of understanding the fire fighter and those are the types of things that we need to do as far as what physically makes up this group and what are our risks and that’s one of the categories I don’t want Chanhassen in is a line of duty death related to some kind of cardiac incident so I’m pretty proud of our group with over half of them voluntarily being part of this program and they’d better win because I’m sure Chief Weibe’s going to be all over me if he doesn’t. The other thing that I’d like to talk about with the public that are watching is ice safety. We have been out several times now with, luckily this go around has just been with animal rescues on the ice. The ice is not safe. We need at least a good 2 to 4 solid inches of ice for anyone to walk on it so I know folks are interested in getting out there and doing some fishing. If you put yourself at risk, if my crew’s got to show up, you put a lot of people at risk to get you out of there. The water’s not safe. We’ve got this warm temperatures and then it gets cold again and it’s just, you know a couple weeks of cold weather just isn’t going to do it so stay off the ice. Keep your animals off the ice so you don’t feel compelled to go in when they break through and we can all have a successful winter without being in the paper for the wrong reasons so that deals with our vehicles. Anybody out on the ice and anybody that walks, we’ve got a lot of wonderful lakes in our area so if you can keep your animals on, keep them off the ice for right now so we don’t have to do any rescues that would be much appreciated. That’s all I have Mayor and council. Mayor Furlong: Good. Thank you Chief. Any questions for Chief Johnson? No, very good. Thank you. Appreciate the update. Chief Don Johnson: Thank you. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A METES AND BOUNDS SUBDIVISION OF A TH 0.69 ACRE PARCEL INTO TWO LOTS, LOCATED AT 2061 WEST 65 STREET, APPLICANTS/OWNERS: JOHN AND KIMBERLY COREY. Mayor Furlong: We’ll start with a staff report. Give council an opportunity to ask some questions of staff. We’ll hear from the applicant. Probably some more questions and then have 4 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 a public hearing as well before any action is considered so why don’t we start with a staff report please. Ms. Aanenson. Kate Aanenson: Thank you Mayor, members of the City Council. As you indicated this is a metes and bounds subdivision and is requiring a public hearing before the City Council. The City Council can approve a metes and bounds subdivision of one lot into two if it’s inside the sewered area, which this is and both lots meet the minimum requirements and has street frontage and follows the subdivision requirements, which this does. So again the public hearing is being held in front of the City Council rather than the Planning Commission. Again the subject site is th on West 65 Street. Access off of Galpin Boulevard. This is the existing condition. There’s one home on the lot right now. This kind of gives you a purview of the neighborhood right here on th West 65 Street. A little bit larger lots. Over the minimum 15,000. So the existing conditions on the site, again there’s one home on the site. There is a septic mound site on the property and then there is also a low area found on the property. The existing home would stay as it is and th both homes would get access off of West 65 Street. The subdivision itself, the Moline Subdivision was filed with Carver County in December of 1969. The existing home was built in 1981. Did want to point out too that the septic system would be removed then as part of the subdivision construction and also that that low area, as we’ve determined there will be I’m sure some discussion from the neighbors on that but that it’s not a pond. It’s just a lower area on the site. So the subdivision itself as required in the subdivision regulations, both lots have to meet the requirements of the city ordinance which both do as far as minimum lot area. 15,000 square feet and the existing home would meet the impervious surface requirements. Can’t exceed 25 percent and this is at 24 percent so Parcel 1, which would be the new lot is 15,165 square feet and Parcel 2 would be the 15,159 square feet. Again both parcels meeting the frontage requirement and the lot area requirement. I did want to point out, there’s been some discussion on this regarding the grading itself and utilities on the site and for this you can see on this area up in here, the street itself. The portion of the street behind the cul-de-sac has been vacated, although it’s still shown on the records. Either property owners on either side would have to request that so the easement, this area here, there’s a condition that’s addressed in the staff report that talks about the developer would propose a 10 foot front yard and a 5 foot side yard drainage and utility easement and that we also grant an easement over this area for public purposes. And that would be recorded with the subdivision itself. So the proposed street subdivision adjacent to th West 65 Street is a 20 foot wide public street within a 60 foot right-of-way without curb or gutter and this street was constructed in 1979. Was overlaid in 2013. The current standard for new streets in Chanhassen is 31 feet wide with curb and gutter and staff is not recommending that the developer install curb and gutter along this property frontage since the remainder of the street was not reconstructed that way so it’d follow the existing conditions that are already in the neighborhood. So the proposed grading for the site would be that the surface water drainage from the back to the front. Getting therefore, getting the water itself to the front of the street and the existing Parcel 2 with the existing home would not be altered. This would just be for the new home which is Parcel 1 would be the new home so again the grading, bring it to the stormwater in the front. So the other issue then with the grading is that there’s evidence of high ground water in this area. Originally when this application came in we did recommend that the applicant, based on the subdivision requirements that they needed to identify that it is a buildable lot because we have a requirement of building the lowest level 3 feet above the ordinary high water mark so they went back and had this engineered and so what they found is that the 5 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 infiltration into the sanitary sewer manhole in the area, the infiltration was abated with the street project so that was changed. The site investigation performed was also, indicated mottled soils about 18 inches below the surface and mottled soils are indicative of periodic soil saturation. And also that the investigation indicated water present during the borings rising to 2 feet below the surface. So as part of the Parcel 1 requirements, again by subdivision that they be 3 feet above is that they would have to grade up some of the poor soils and then fill those and again to get that build up that lot in order to get the 3 feet above the ordinary high water mark. So they’ve submitted plans to do that. Now this would take place when the owner would buy the home. The applicant for this subdivision is not doing that now so we want to make sure that that’s in the chain of title and requirements so anyone buying the lot would know what they would need to do in order to make this lot buildable. But because this is a subdivision there were fees that would need to be paid at the time of subdivision so the fees for sewer connections and some of the park and trail fees would have to be paid at this time but anybody working on that lot would want to build would then take the extra step. Again it would be a slab on grade as is Parcel 2. The existing home is also slab on grade. Would have to be built that way and do the soil remediation to make sure it meets what we’ve identified as the conditions of approval. So with that we are recommending approval. Creating the two lots into one. Adopting of the Findings of Fact and there is a resolution so I’d be happy to answer any questions that you may have. Mayor Furlong: Thank you Ms. Aanenson. Appreciate the report. Questions for staff. Can you explain just a little bit about some of the soil corrections? The water level I think reading through the report was a little less than 2 feet below current grade so would there be removal of existing soils, replacement and then additional soils so that the slab is then 3 feet above the water? Is that I mean an engineering requirements? Kate Aanenson: Yeah, I’m going to let Paul answer that. Mayor Furlong: Yeah, that’s fine. Thank you. Paul Oehme: Thank you Mayor, City Council members. So the soils report recommends removal and remediation of approximately 7 feet of soil in some of these areas. Just because of the perch ground water conditions that we’re finding and just for structural support of the foundation as well so that’s one of the main challenges out here is getting the soils corrected prior to construction. Mayor Furlong: In order for it to be a buildable? Paul Oehme: In order for it to be a buildable lot, yeah. So this is again this is just a preliminary plan right now but we’re anticipating that the lot would have to have drain tile surrounding the property too get our 3 foot separation as well and build that, build the lot up just a little bit from his existing elevation as well. Mayor Furlong: And can you just clarify, in the recommended conditions, is this under the engineering section I believe? Possibly condition 9 under Engineering. 6 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 Paul Oehme: Okay. Mayor Furlong: Where it talks about the Interstate Geotechnical Engineering’s observations. Paul Oehme: If I can find it. Okay. Mayor Furlong: And I guess I just want to clarify, this condition talks about that minimum separation of 3 feet. It doesn’t necessarily talk about soil corrections. Is that currently not part of our ordinance or would that be part of the requirement before the permit would be issued? How does that become part of the conditions here? Paul Oehme: That would be part of the building permit typically and investigation or inspection by city staff to make sure that the soils that are unsuitable for foundations would be removed. Mayor Furlong: And is that typically part of a building permit? Does that happen everywhere in the city? Kate Aanenson: I would say it’s not uncommon that they do, we require a soils report. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Kate Aanenson: Especially if there’s been corrected soils so there’ll be a note on that lot that a soils report is required. Mayor Furlong: Okay, so that will go into the file and be part of the conditions here. Is the soils corrections somewhere in the conditions already Ms. Aanenson or? It talks about observations but then it seems to speak to a requirement that it be 3 feet. Kate Aanenson: Yeah. The ordinance does require 3 feet. Mayor Furlong: Right. Kate Aanenson: So I think what we’re, the 7 foot was based on the Geotechnical report so. Mayor Furlong: So I guess the question is, is 9 complete enough to also deal with the soil corrections to engineering’s satisfaction. Kate Aanenson: I think because it references the Geotechnical report. Paul Oehme: Right and it has to meet our ordinance so once they submit final plans, you know we’ll make sure that it meets our ordinance and the soils are addressed at that time. Mayor Furlong: And does our ordinance address correct soils? Is that part of, is it already in our ordinance? Therefore it doesn’t need to be in here. 7 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 Paul Oehme: Right. There has to be structural review of what the soils that are out there are necessarily strong enough to support the foundation of a proposed building. Mayor Furlong: Of what they’re proposing. Paul Oehme: Exactly. Mayor Furlong: Okay. So our ordinances in the building permit already look at that so we don’t need an additional condition. Kate Aanenson: Right. The ordinance says you have to be 3 feet above the ordinary high water mark. Mayor Furlong: Understand. Kate Aanenson: In order to do that they have to correct the soils. Because they’ve corrected the soils, therefore they need to do a soils report. Mayor Furlong: Okay. And that’s all going to be in the file and track with this parcel? Kate Aanenson: Yes. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright. Other questions anybody may have? Councilman Laufenburger. Councilman Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Mayor. Paul, can you speak to, or Kate. You identified a low area near the, I’m going to call it the southwest, right? So do I understand correctly that you’re proposing grading that would take all the water flow from the back of the lot, that would be the southern portion of the lot to the north side of the lot, is that correct? Kate Aanenson: That’s my understanding from the grading plan. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay so, okay. And where will that, will that water, where does the water go now? Does it just accumulate in the back of the lot and does it go east towards Galpin? Does it go west towards the back of the cul-de-sac? Paul Oehme: I think a lot of it flows to the south right now but with the drain tile that are being proposed, there is additional catch basins along the edge of the property line to catch some of that water so it more or less flows to the north. Councilman Laufenburger: So then it would go into. Paul Oehme: Into the. Councilman Laufenburger: Into the storm sewer which is along. 8 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 Paul Oehme: Right, there’s a drain tile. th Councilman Laufenburger: Along 65. th Paul Oehme: Along 65, right. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Alright. So what about surface water? Surface water doesn’t th go to 65 right now does it? Paul Oehme: Not, well some of it does but I think a majority of it flows to the south, yeah. Councilman Laufenburger: So when you raise, when you change that grading level more surface th water will go to the street on 65, is that correct? Paul Oehme: That’s correct. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. And is that acceptable? Paul Oehme: That’s typically the way house pads are designed. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Todd Gerhardt: There’s a catch basin next to the driveway. Kate Aanenson: Right. Paul Oehme: Right. Todd Gerhardt: The pink line. Councilman Laufenburger: Got it, okay. Thank you Mr. Mayor. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Any other questions for staff at this time? Okay, thank you. I’d like to hear from the applicant. Councilman Laufenburger: Oh wait, I do have one more. Mayor Furlong: Oh, okay. Councilman Laufenburger. Councilman Laufenburger: Yeah Kate there was something about trees. Trees are planned to be saved, is that correct? Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. 9 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 Councilman Laufenburger: And is that also in a, like a development contract or a subdivision contract that would require that certain trees stay? How do we know that they’re going to comply with that? Kate Aanenson: Yeah. Typically what we do before a permit is issued is that they put tree protection and that is one of the conditions in here. Be required around preserved trees and then typically we inspect those before grading begins. Councilman Laufenburger: Yep, okay. Kate Aanenson: And also if this was a new lot, vacant lot then we require at least one tree in the front yard and so, and that’s what we’re requesting on this one too because as we talked about they’re bringing in some fill and grading that we try to save one tree in the front yard too. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Kate Aanenson: And those are conditions. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Thank you Mr. Mayor. Mayor Furlong: Certainly. I’d like to hear from the applicant now. If they have anything they’d like to share with the council. Good evening. James Brudos: Good evening Mayor, City Council. My name is James Brudos and I reside in Minnetonka. Just to go over as far as the drainage issues on that lot. Currently they, someone said that it drains to the south. Most of it seems to stay within that lot because of the soil conditions which is mostly clay based which is somewhat impervious so right now as it sits it’s acting as a pool. So that’s why I believe the water table’s a little bit artificially high and with the remedies that we have in place with the proposed drainage plan, that would pretty much direct all the water flow where it should go. Away from the homes, inbetween the homes and towards the street where there is already a storm drain in place as well as a neighbor installed drain tile so. Mayor Furlong: Keep going. James Brudos: So hopefully that answers it for the. Mayor Furlong: Okay. James Brudos: Any other questions? Mayor Furlong: Any questions at this point? No. Okay, thank you. James Brudos: Sure. Mayor Furlong: At this time we’ll open up a public hearing and invite all interested parties to come forward and provide comment on this matter. If you’d like to speak, I invite you to come 10 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 forward to the podium. Please state your name and address for the record. Good evening sir. Please come forward. Terry Atherton: Hello. Mayor Furlong: Good evening. Terry Atherton: My name’s Terry Atherton. I live across the street from this development project. Mayor Furlong: What’s your address Mr. Atherton? Terry Atherton: Sorry? Mayor Furlong: Your address. Your street address. th Terry Atherton: Oh, 2082 West 65 Street. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Terry Atherton: I think most all of us that live up there know that there’s a high water table because our sump pumps run every spring and sometimes they run for 2 or 3 months. I have a below ground electrical transformer in my front yard and I can watch the level of the water go up and down as Lake Minnetonka goes up and down. And to just give you a few facts from my background. I bought the house in 1977 and in ’79 or ’80 the City condemned 12 out of the 17 septic systems on Murray Hill and during that from like June, well actually May until October our septic systems were essentially dead. My own family we had, flushed our toilets once a day and we took showers at my mother-in-law’s over in Minnetonka but I’m just trying to show you how much water there is up there and I don’t believe the water is coming from rain or down spouts or whatever. I believe it’s coming from the aquifers underneath the ground from Minnetonka because like this last, well I’ll back up. We, in ’78 or ’79 we petitioned the City to put in sewer systems and so by the next year we all had sewer systems so we were pretty happy about that. But this last spring in June when we had all the rain I watched the water come up on that transformer and of course it just kind of laid in my front yard until almost August before it started to drop down but was well above the transformer and it was flush with the ground. Now kind of funny story. When I bought the house I went down to put, drill a hole in the ground for the mailbox. I dug down about 2 feet and I thought, I could hear a gurgling. Just like that the hole filled up with water and you could actually stand on the end of that cul-de-sac and, which is like a trampoline. Go up and down. But in the 90’s the City brought in, I don’t know how many trucks it was for fill over the asphalt that, and it’s pretty solid now. Getting back to this last June, I’ve got a sump pump in the back of my house but the water was coming in on all four sides of my house. From the garage. From the back and two places in the front. And so I ended up redoing my tile system in the front and hopefully that that will work that out but it was actually kind of a nightmare. I spent 3 nights. 3 days with a shop vac pumping water out of the basement and the first night I got up every hour to do this because the water level was coming up. I had to move all my furniture and everything else out into the garage. And then the next 11 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 day I was down to 2 hours. I could sleep. The next night it was 3 hours I could sleep but from there on the water levels started to go down a little bit but that’s all with Minnetonka when they had a no wake zone. So I don’t know, this is all facts. Speculation as to what might happen if they build a new house on there but I’m speculating that it’s going to affect our water system. Be worst than what it is. So I urge you not to accept this proposal. Mayor Furlong: Alright, thank you Mr. Atherton. Mr. Oehme, any thoughts or comments or based upon the engineering report that was done with regard to what effect, based upon the proposed soil corrections and separation of the water with a slab on grade home on this proposed lot, what that might, how that might affect the neighboring properties? Paul Oehme: Sure. The geotechnical report didn’t speak to how it would affect or potentially affect surrounding neighbors but what the geotechnical report did say is, you know if you correct the soils. Put sandier material in the lot for the house pad and surrounding the building itself. Include in the drain tile that was proposed as well by the developer, that system would artificially lower the ground water in this particular lot to get our 3 foot separation so. I don’t think it would affect surrounding neighbors. Mayor Furlong: And I guess that’s the question. Is it artificially lowering it by taking it off the property into the storm sewer system or pushing it onto the neighbor’s property? Paul Oehme: No, we’re talking ground water here so it’d be lowering the ground water on this th particular site and discharging that ground water into the tile that’s on 65 Street. Mayor Furlong: So taking the ground water, lowering the level on this lot and actually removing it from the area. Paul Oehme: Correct. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright. Thank you. Terry Atherton: Thank you. Mayor Furlong: Please. th Chris Jerdee: My name is Chris Jerdee. I live on 2081 West 65 Street, which is the property just to the west there. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Chris Jerdee: I’m not, I can sit and talk about the, I’ve only been here for 4 years. The rest of these guys have lived here, they’re original owners of these homes but you said, somebody said that it’s not actually a duck pond behind the house. Well it might not technically be but between the months of April and June, this year all the way into August, it was a pond. The water was up to my knees. My dog, I have an 80 pound lab who would spend, she would go swim in this water. There is, this is not just your typical water problem. The water stands there. There’s 12 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 standing water on the border just to the east of my property pretty much all spring into, well into the summer and there has been for the 4 years I’ve lived here. Obviously this year was much worst. I actually have installed some drain tile. Had a contractor do it rather. From the south side of my lot out to the catch basin in the road there’s two. I was actually going to pay to put one in the property in question here when the previous owner was there but the new owner didn’t want me to do that. I was going to just try to help get some, get rid of some of the water. This is just surface water. Rain water. I didn’t end up doing that because he didn’t want me to do that so, so that’s part of the issue I think. I think the bigger issue for me is, I have moved into this space 4 years ago because every lot, I think somebody mentioned it right at the beginning. Every lot on this street is three-quarters of an acre roughly. Some a little bigger. Some a little smaller. I think this lot in question is one of the smaller ones and when you take a current lot, split it in half and now you have two homes on this street that have lots half the size of pretty much every other house on the road. I guess I’m kind of wondering what that’s going to do to my property value. The neighboring property values and then what happens is, I don’t want to do this because I bought the lot because I like the size of it. What if all of the houses on the end of the property, or the cul-de-sac there decide that we want to split our lots too? Now we’ve got 8 homes on the end of a cul-de-sac that as far as I heard, I’m not an expert here, is already an undersized road. What happens? Are there safety issues? Again I don’t want to do that. This is all hypothetical but if we approve this one then who’s to say that years from now we don’t have 8 homes stacked on the end of this cul-de-sac so. That’s all I have. Thanks. Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. th John Favorite: Mayor, council, John Favorite. I live at 2080 65 Street West. Directly across the street from the property we’re talking about here and I’d like to know from I guess it’s an engineering question. The owner behind this property to the south, there is actually a, it’s a gully and it’s part of the, part of the wetland area that was showed earlier. You can’t just jack the back of this lot up because it meets another lot on the south side. There’s actually like a creek. Well it was kind of creek when I first moved in there so I don’t, I’m trying to understand how you can jack the back of the lot up and get the water to drain to the front when they don’t own the, you can’t match into the other person’s property. I’m trying to understand what, what the engineering is behind that. Mayor Furlong: Mr. Oehme, do you want to respond to that question? Paul Oehme: Sure. Mayor Furlong: How do you do it? Paul Oehme: So the whole lot is going to be re-graded so I believe that the low point that’s on the property where it holds a lot of water is going to be re-graded out and try to get the water St redirected to the north onto 65th reet. So and maybe the developer can address that a little bit more too. James Brudos: Now? 13 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 Mayor Furlong: Sure, if you don’t mind. James Brudos: Yeah. Mayor Furlong: Mr. Favorite is that okay? Stay here if you have more comments to make. John Favorite: Yeah, I will. I will. Mayor Furlong: Let’s get an answer to this question first. James Brudos: Most of the grading is going to be filling in that little spot which is within the confines of that lot that we’re trying to subdivide. In addition to that running from the, let’s see. The south side to the north. Mayor Furlong: Nann, could we get the overhead view please? Excuse me for interrupting. James Brudos: Okay. It’s going to be running to the street by virtue of the slope itself and in addition to that we’re going to have drain tile around the whole perimeter of the lot to direct the water to the storm drain so I don’t know how it could have standing water from that. Mayor Furlong: So you’re going to be adding, adding fill. Adding soils to the site. James Brudos: Correct. Mayor Furlong: Digging out, replacing plus adding on top of that. James Brudos: Correct. Mayor Furlong: Okay. And then with the additional soils, direct the drainage out towards the th street. Towards West 65. James Brudos: Correct. As well as putting a drain tile around the perimeter of the lot itself. Mayor Furlong: Okay. James Brudos: Which is above and beyond in my opinion. But just to suffice and remediate any possible standing water. Mayor Furlong: Okay. John Favorite: Okay. I have a question then. Does anybody know what the elevations are behind there where the lot ends and where the resident behind their lot starts? What those elevations are? Could you. Paul Oehme: And 1064 and then the back yard it looks like it’s going to be 1061 or so. Right in this area. 1061. 14 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 John Favorite: So her water’s going to hit that. Paul Oehme: Yep. John Favorite: Her water’s going to hit that and carry? Paul Oehme: Carry to the north, right. John Favorite: To the street. Okay. I can’t imagine that happening but they were fortunate because that’s the driest the lot had ever been. The gentleman was able to get out there with his boring truck and, to take his samples and I’ve been stuck on every part of that lot with every piece of equipment I’ve ever owned because the prior owner was a good friend of mine. I was always trying to help him out but so there’s a ton of hydrostatic pressure there that is in my opinion more than, more than just a slope issue. I wish we could look into it further. I don’t know how, you know what else we can do there. But then I’m with Chris. The neighbor, this isn’t the first time someone’s tried to subdivide in there. I have been down there years ago and I was told that, and I understood. I was told that whoever divides that first would have to pay for concrete curb and making the cul-de-sac a legal sized cul-de-sac. They would shoulder those costs. So then I decided not to do it and I wanted, and after being there a little bit I thought you know I’m not going to fight that. I like a nice big lot. I like a nice big yard but that was the main driver there and if that happened, because like Chris says that’s a concern of mine too. If you start getting 8 houses. We go from 4 houses on the bubble there to 8. I mean we can’t, you can’t turn a garbage truck around there anyway right now. So the point that the City Engineering prior to Paul being there was that it was a safety issue so someone would have to make it, take that on and make that a legal sized cul-de-sac. Apparently that doesn’t apply anymore but I have notes from when I went down there and then Bernie, the prior owner. I went down there with him and he was told the same thing. Mayor Furlong: When was that? John Favorite: This was about 10 years ago. 10-12 years ago but what’s changed since then? I mean the street’s the same size so the argument was that you know, hey you can’t do it unless you improve, make all these improvements because you can’t get around in there so for me if everybody’s comfortable with the fire safety thing there, fine. You know like I said you can’t, more people living there, I don’t know 4 cars per home. How many in the street? I don’t know. I guess I’d like that to be looked at further if we could. You know are we looking down the road? In other words I wish the fire chief was here to look ahead and say okay, it’s okay now but like what if everybody else does that and all of sudden you’ve got 8. Are things going to change? You’re going to have to change something. We can’t do it all in that undersized cul-de- sac. Mayor Furlong: Ms. Aanenson, can you respond to those comments or questions? Kate Aanenson: Well some of those are directed to engineering but whether or not a lot can further subdivide would depend on whether or not they would meet the requirements of 15 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 providing an additional 15,000 square foot lot so it really depends on where you house sits on the lot. In this circumstance, the way it fits is that there is additional 15,000. Somebody else may be able to but some of the other lots, they have accessory structures or large garages. Mayor Furlong: Which would have to be removed. Kate Aanenson: Right, yeah. So I’m not sure that the configuration of their lots would allow for. Mayor Furlong: Does that make sense Mr. Favorite? John Favorite: Yeah it does. I know mine would with some minor alterations. That’s why I went down there. I’ve been doing this kind of thing for, we built. I work for a company. We built most the roads in Chanhassen in the 70’s and 80’s so I was familiar with what went on there and that’s why I understood what engineering was saying about you know you start getting this it’s undersized. You get a little bigger you’re going to have to do this. Like I said I didn’t want to shoulder the cost but in theory everyone could, everybody could come up with, with a minimum square footage like that, that’s on the end of that bubble. In theory. They could. So then what? I mean in fact if I would have made those improvements to that cul-de-sac this lot wouldn’t have met the minimum requirements so back then had I taken that on, this lot wouldn’t have even met those requirements. So I guess but the big thing for me is looking down the road. Is what’s good for the goose good for the gander? We’re getting close to the holiday but is everything else, is everybody else there could to have the same, same opportunity? Mayor Furlong: Well and I think Ms. Aanenson, I guess the subdivision ordinance speaks to what, what are the requirements for a subdivision correct? Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Mayor Furlong: So. John Favorite: Without improvement. Okay without street improvement. Kate Aanenson: I’m not going to, I’ll let the City Engineer address that. John Favorite: I mean I guess I’d like to have. Mayor Furlong: No, and I don’t know what conversation you had again so. John Favorite: No, no, sure. Paul’s he’s been, everyone was great down there. Mayor Furlong: Mr. Oehme, your thoughts. Paul Oehme: It is undersized the cul-de-sac for what our typical standard is right now. I think it’s about a 72 foot wide cul-de-sac so it is a little bit narrower than what we’d like to see out here. I think from talking to the fire chief, fire marshal, I think the cul-de-sac works for us. We 16 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 have other cul-de-sacs like this in the city. They seem to work fine for us so we’re not looking to make improvements in this area. Because there would be right-of-way that would have to be acquired to make that happen and additional impacts that at this time we didn’t think would be, th would be appropriate. We did just recently overlay or redo 65 Street and so we are comfortable leaving the cul-de-sac the same width at that time so. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright. John Favorite: Okay so I guess that satisfies me if I decide to do it, I would assume it would pass for me. I couldn’t find another, could anybody name another situation like this? I drove all over the city and I couldn’t find one. I looked on the map on the City. Mayor Furlong: When you say a situation like this? John Favorite: Like this where, where there’s an undersized cul-de-sac with homes on it like this that are trying to split them off. I couldn’t find any. Mayor Furlong: Ms. Aanenson, are you aware of any? John Favorite: With a cul-de-sac this size. Kate Aanenson: I’m guessing Koehnen Circle or any of those so. Paul Oehme: Yeah I mean that’s. Kate Aanenson: Everything kind of in that northern area right there. John Favorite: What? Kate Aanenson: Koehnen Circle. Some of those up there would be similar situation to the north. John Favorite: Okay well those were slightly larger I thought but you’re saying the dimensions are identical? Kate Aanenson: I didn’t say that. I said they’d be similar. We have streets that are undersized in other areas of the city. The street width changed. It used to be 50 feet city wide. Back in the 70’s and then it really wasn’t changed to 60 feet until maybe. Paul Oehme: 80’s and 90’s. Kate Aanenson: Yeah probably in the 80’s so some of the early parts of the city were built with 50 foot wide streets, and we have done extension subdivisions. Mayor Furlong: And that’s 50 right-of-way, correct? Kate Aanenson: Right excuse me, right-of-way. Not pavement. 17 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 John Favorite: Right, our street’s 25 feet wide. Kate Aanenson: We can talk about Hummingbird. We’ve got streets that are significantly smaller. Mayor Furlong: Yep. Kate Aanenson: So what we’ve done to you when we brought those, we’ve looked at kind of the neighborhood standard. You know we’ve got that in Carver Beach where they’re significantly narrower. We brought those to you. When we do a subdivision on the end of one of those and say this is the existing pattern. We’re not going to take at the end of that street, say at 50 feet we’re going to put a 60 foot at the end of that. We said that doesn’t appear, we’re going to stick with that neighborhood standard it’s served so far so we do look at those on a case by case basis but yes. We have 50 right-of-way through the older parts of the city. Mayor Furlong: But again the width of the. Kate Aanenson: The pavement width may vary within that right-of-way. Mayor Furlong: The pavement width can be narrower than our current standard. Kate Aanenson: Right because now the pavement width is 31 and I believe it used to be probably closer to 26 probably. Or vary. Mayor Furlong: Well its 25 here. John Favorite: Our’s is 25 so like I said I mean. Mayor Furlong: Yeah so at some point that was built. John Favorite: To find an example like this with that size of bubble at the end of it with those dimensions with 8 homes on it, nothing exists that I can. Nothing exists. Mayor Furlong: That’s possible. There’s, yep. John Favorite: Just I’m just worried about down the vision. Down the road you know, looking ahead. Mayor Furlong: Yep. John Favorite: Just trying to, you know. You know I don’t fault, so you meet minimum requirements. You do what you do. I get that. I just, I hope everybody’s looking down the road so it’s all apples and apples later on too. Mayor Furlong: Okay. 18 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 John Favorite: That’s all I got to say, thanks. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Please. Peg Trager: Hi. Peg Trager at, I’m at 2080 Crestview. Right behind this property. That is my little white house there. So if their land is sloped the other way, built up in the back and mine is coming down the hill to that spot, will the pond be on my side then? Moved to my side because it was there all summer basically. Paul Oehme: Right, no. No, that’s not the intent. Peg Trager: My. Paul Oehme: Right you’re higher than Lot 1 out here and it’s going to be basically filled in and then, so the water won’t have an area to stand anymore. It’s just going to sheet drain to the north so the puddle won’t be. Peg Trager: Why won’t it be on my property though because even now when I dig down there in the fall, I planted a bunch of evergreens, you put the shovel in and water is right there. Like you don’t even have to water it so it’s very, very low on my property too. Paul Oehme: Okay, so again. Peg Trager: But I haven’t had the pond. The pond is on other side of the fence. Paul Oehme: Right and the pond is going to go away or that low depression area on Lot 1, the intent is for that to go away. That’s the plan. Deb Pittman: Good evening. My name’s Deb Pittman. I live at 6500 Galpin. We’re actually on th the corner of West 65 and Galpin and my concern is, and you said right out. You have not figured out what this will do to the other homes. Well water runs downhill. We’re kind of like at the bottom. Right now we have 3 sump pumps which run also in the winter so we’re not just talking top runoff water so what is this going to do I guess to the two properties that are down, well I guess three properties that are down from that? That’s kind of like you say they’ll dig down and change the soil. Well the water that originally was there, where’s it going to go? Paul Oehme: So if you can bring up the plan. Yeah, the plan set so, so the proposal or the plan is to add drain tile. 6 inch drain tile along both sides. That’s shown here in pink. Drain tile along both sides of the property line so any water that’s, and it’s going to be about 3 feet deep. So any water that’s within 3 feet of that pipe, that’s where the water is going to go and be th discharged into the drain tile that’s on 65 Street. That’s why you know we’re actually, the plan is to, in my opinion is improving the ground water situation out here because it’s lowering, artificially lowering potentially any of the water that’s, that would be collected in this area and removing that, discharging it to the city system. So the drain tile basically wraps around the property. 19 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 Mayor Furlong: Does it run all the way along the, all the borders Paul. I can’t see with all the lines here. Paul Oehme: It does. Okay, yep. So it. Todd Gerhardt: Show the catch basins. Paul Oehme: So here’s one catch basin. Here’s another catch basin. Another catch basin here. Mayor Furlong: And those are actually on the property. Paul Oehme: Those are on the property with, right along the drainage utility easement and then connects into the city system that’s right here. Deb Pittman: But what about on the other side? Paul Oehme: Then there’s another, this is another drain tile. Here’s another catch basin here. Another catch basin right here and they’re 2 to 3 feet deep. Deb Pittman: So that supposedly will catch any underground water? Paul Oehme: It will catch both underground water and then also surface water if the catch basins have a grate on top so. Todd Gerhardt: Just 2 feet below the surface. Deb Pittman: It’s only going to catch 2 feet below the surface? Paul Oehme: Correct. And that’s basically where the ground water table is today. Mayor Furlong: Right. Paul Oehme: Two to three feet. Deb Pittman: Okay. I still think that this is not really being addressed for the issues that area has with not just runoff water but underground water. And I really hate to see this house go in and then all of a sudden the neighbors down from this new house, all of a sudden I’ve got to put in a fourth sump pump or I get a flooded basement. I mean I don’t know I just kind of feel like things just aren’t being addressed. How you can change and put in hills and this water’s miraculously going to disappear. Paul Oehme: Well the water’s not going to disappear. It’s going to be directed into the drain tile and re-graded to allow better surface drainage to the north and then onto the street so it’s not sitting on the property anymore. It’s actually draining out into the street and into the storm sewer system. 20 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 James Brudos: And away from your house. Paul Oehme: And away from your house. Deb Pittman: Okay. I guess time will tell. th Bill Ashenbach: Mr. Mayor, council. My name is Bill Ashenbach at 2041 West 65 Street and I live right on the east side of the existing home now and my question is that we have a lot of standing water between our two homes because the home that’s there now is so close to my home. My garden’s probably like 12-15 feet away and this spring my garden was under water all the way around the whole garden and I’ve got a pretty good sized garden and the water sat there and sat there and sat there. Plus I was thinking if you, if they do bring in and bring the level of the lot up to standard where it’s supposed to be, I’m just wondering how that’s going to affect the back yard of the existing home because that was under water for a long time. From probably a couple months the whole back yard was under water, okay. And I know if they, I don’t know if they’re going to raise that land up or not or just the new existing lot they want to sell because, because of the fact that the house was built so close to our side of the lot. It pushed a lot of the water into our yard and all of a sudden we had water problems and we had to put a septic system in our basement after 15 or I think it was 18 years after we moved in there so we’ve had nothing but our pump running constantly and then this spring and summer when I couldn’t get out to the garden because of the water completely around the garden and over into the property next door, where the house is now, it sits there for a long time and my question right now is, they put in some kind of a drainage area now. They cut out a, it’s kind of like a ravine that’s maybe 3 to 3 ½ feet wide trying to drain the water between my house and their house out to street but if you take a look at the grade, the grade towards the back of our lot to the front of our lot has got to have about, I’m guessing maybe an 8 inch hill to go up so that water’s not going anywhere unless they put a, some kind of a drainage system around the whole existing house now because the back of the existing house is really low and I think you’re going to, I think Peg’s going to have a continuous water problem along that whole back of their lot because she’s, if they build the existing lot up, it’s just going to push all the water, the ground water’s going to go onto the back of her lot so I can’t really see how they can really get rid of the situation unless everybody raises the level up so high that it’s going to drain towards the street and out into the sewer so, that’s my concern. Mayor Furlong: And I appreciate that and I guess the question as you’re raising this point sir is, Paul this drain tile you keep talking about is 6 inch so it’s, as I envision a 6 inch tube right, underneath the ground. And is that laid in such that, I mean with the rise if you’re going, water doesn’t go uphill. Bill Ashenbach: No, that’s what my point is. Mayor Furlong: So do they bury this drain tile so it’s actually going downhill so the drain tile is higher elevation in the back of the lot than it is in the front? 21 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 Paul Oehme: That’s correct. So it has positive drainage towards the road so it carries the water to the storm sewer system. Mayor Furlong: So when it gets down to the road is that where the City’s drain tile is? Paul Oehme: Correct. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Behind the road. Paul Oehme: Yeah, behind the curb. Mayor Furlong: The curb or as much as you, okay. Bill Ashenbach: But there’s still a question as to, because if they raise the level of the yard up and the existing, I mean the lot that they want to sell is still going to push it over to the existing house because that lot is so low behind the house that it’s the same level as my house and it’s just, when you, unless you’re going to raise the whole thing all the way up, all the way across or put in some kind of a drainage system around the whole existing house now and the new lot they want, you’re not going to get rid of the water. All you do is just moving it around a little bit is all you’re doing because it’s basically ground water. I was there when they built that house and we watched them put in 12, what do you call it? They punched 12 holes in there and watched, for the water levels and they instantly all came right up to the top and they stayed there for oh my gosh. Terry Atherton and I watched them and weeks and months the water level stayed right up towards the top of the lots so the water level, it’s coming from, it’s not coming from anywhere else. It’s coming from the bottom on up. That’s the way I feel so once again my question is, is how are they going to drain the existing house with the new existing lot? That’s the question. Mayor Furlong: And I guess Mr. Oehme, what are the proposals there if any? Paul Oehme: Again you know the house and the drainage is to get the water to sheet drain and to get the water off the property. Again the drain tile will handle a lot of the. Mayor Furlong: But I guess to clarify. That’s the new lot. Paul Oehme: Right. Mayor Furlong: That’s the lot being created. Bill Ashenbach: Right. Paul Oehme: Okay. Mayor Furlong: I hear his question, Mr. Ashenbach’s question of the existing house and what would be Lot 2 here, or Parcel 2. It doesn’t look like there are any improvements there. Paul Oehme: Right. 22 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 Mayor Furlong: Why? Paul Oehme: Because the drain, the lot is being raised up a little bit and if you look right on the property line, there’s a little bit of gradage here but there’s 2 percent positive drainage to the north along the property line there. Plus there is a depression right at this catch basin here to capture a lot of that water before it heads to the east onto the adjacent property so there. Mayor Furlong: So the new lot, new house, that drainage is not going to go to the existing parcel? Paul Oehme: Right. Mayor Furlong: Or Parcel 2. Paul Oehme: That’s. Mayor Furlong: That’s going to go up to the street. Paul Oehme: Right. We’re trying to capture the water as it leaves the property. Try to sheet drain it to the north to this catch basin here. There’s a little depression right here to allow all that water to get into that drain tile and then end up into the city system. Bill Ashenbach: Right, well. Mayor Furlong: So the existing home though and parcel, there are no proposed changes there because that’s already existing. Paul Oehme: That’s already existing. Bill Ashenbach: But what about all the water that lays in the whole back yard? I mean it’s as big as, almost as big as this whole room. Mayor Furlong: Of the, of Parcel 2 or behind the existing house? Bill Ashenbach: Behind the existing house. Right, behind the existing house and inbetween their house now and my house is a low area. If you look in my back yard, look at the front, it just kind of goes I don’t know what percent grade it is but there’s probably a good 6 to 8 inch grade from three-quarters the back of my lot to the street so they’re going to have to put in some kind of a drainage system inbetween both of our houses to take care of the whole problem I think because all you’re going to do is shift it around. Mayor Furlong: I guess the question would be, that’s been existing for a while, correct? I mean since. Bill Ashenbach: You mean the problem’s been existing for a while? 23 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 Mayor Furlong: Yeah. Oh yeah it has nothing’s changed there. It’s been the way for, we’ve been there 40 years and it’s. Mayor Furlong: So I guess my question would be, is if by subdividing this and creating a new lot and capturing all the water on that new lot so none of it goes to the existing house, therefore goes down to you, what I’m hearing being proposed is all the water for the new lot will be captured there and moved out to the street. Bill Ashenbach: Right and I’ve got to…that’s going to work. Mayor Furlong: Yep and so it shouldn’t add any more water to the existing home or the. Bill Ashenbach: Existing home. Mayor Furlong: Or the parcel too. Bill Ashenbach: Well it’s going to have to do something. Well. Mayor Furlong: Well and that’s I guess my question Mr. Oehme is, is any of the water from Parcel 1 from an engineering standpoint, is that going to add to whatever currently exists on Parcel 2? Paul Oehme: No I mean the intent is to capture the water as much as we can in the drain tile system before it ends up in Parcel 2. So we’re trying to improve as much as we can the grading and the ground water issues on Parcel 1. Parcel 2, that’s not part of the proposal right now. Bill Ashenbach: Because I know they put a, when they put the street in I asked them if they would put in a, I don’t know what they call it. It’s an offshoot for about 8 feet so if we had to we could hook up a drainage pipe between our two houses over to the sewer system and the new owner of course he died and we never got it done so, but. th Mayor Furlong: Is the drain tile along West 65 on both sides or not? Paul Oehme: I believe it is. There’s on both the north and south side. Mayor Furlong: So is that available to any resident? Paul Oehme: Yeah we just ask for a permit to hook up to it. Bill Ashenbach: Okay. Well I just wanted to bring it to your attention. Thank you. Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Others that would like to speak. Chris Jerdee: Can I speak again? 24 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 Mayor Furlong: Real quickly. Chris Jerdee: Alright. I guess. Mayor Furlong: Mr. Jerdee correct? Chris Jerdee: Yes, Chris Jerdee again. I live to the west. It sounds like a lot of hopefuls and the intent and a lot of we’re hopeful the water’s going to drain. The intent is the drain tile’s going to drain the water. Who’s going to be there to make sure that happens because I live to the west and if this whole lot gets raised up 3 feet I have the same concern that Bill does. Does that water now come onto my property and we’re hopeful that that drain tile pushes the water out? I mean being hopeful is great and all but when, and we’re going to take a, I read the soil report and I’m no expert. It was online. They’re going to have to excavate up to 7 feet of soil where this house is going to sit to put a house on grade, which is pretty rare right? I mean I don’t know many people who build a house on grade. On a slab in a half sized lot. It seems like a lot of downside to this and not a whole lot of upside. No one here in the neighborhood, I know this doesn’t really weigh into it, is really in favor of this and we’re just, we’re hopeful that these gentlemen aren’t going to do it. Somebody’s going to come in and buy it and put the money into this lot. I don’t see it happening and I don’t understand why it would be approved so I’m going to ask you to not approve this development because there’s just too many questions around it. Mayor Furlong: Mr. Oehme what, what verification or Ms. Aanenson as well. What verification that if this is approved by the council tonight that there will be follow through to ensure that’s been addressed this evening and what’s in the plans will be done? Paul Oehme: Sure. So the developer or builder would have to submit grading plans to the City prior to building so the city staff can review the proposed grading. Mayor Furlong: Do we have ordinances that go with that? Paul Oehme: Absolutely so they’ll have to submit all that information. There’s security that’s submitted in conjunction with those, with those permits as well. Mayor Furlong: Security? Paul Oehme: Yeah security of. Mayor Furlong: A deposit. Paul Oehme: Deposit yeah so, and then the City also has inspectors that come out periodically and a final inspection after the building is completed and grading is complete to verify that it’s built per plan. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright, thank you. Anyone else who would like to address the council this evening? 25 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 John Favorite: Can I have 15 more seconds, sir? Mayor Furlong: Yes. John Favorite: Well I’m just trying to get. Mayor Furlong: No, that’s fine Mr. Favorite. Thank you. John Favorite: I’m trying to understand. So this is Parcel 1. You’re going to jack the back up 3 feet. Here’s the parcel that Mr. Ashenbach’s talking about that’s always wet. How are you going to stop some of this water from going, where does the slope occur? What happens there? I’m trying to understand that. Do you follow me why that’s hard to understand? Mayor Furlong: I do. What I’m hearing from the City Engineer is between the grading and the drain tile system and the catch basins, that’s how it’s being engineered is to catch the water. John Favorite: Okay, the drain tile is only on one side of the street which is the south side and it’s about 14-16 inches underground. Mayor Furlong: Are you talking about the City drain tile? John Favorite: Correct. Mayor Furlong: Yeah. John Favorite: So how do you slope like from let’s say Parcel, or Lot 2, how do you slope from Lot 2 to that? From the very back. Mayor Furlong: Can we pull up that picture again? Of the two lots. Two parcels. John Favorite: I’m just trying to understand. Mayor Furlong: No, and that’s fine. John Favorite: All the geometry here. Mayor Furlong: Mr. Oehme, drain tile on Lot 1 or Parcel 1 runs along both side boundaries correct? Paul Oehme: Correct. Mayor Furlong: Both side lot lines. John Favorite: So that’s like this right here then? Mayor Furlong: That’s my understanding. Both sides. 26 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 John Favorite: That’s interesting, okay. But the…current home there doesn’t have anything. Mayor Furlong: The current home, the conditions exist there exist there today is my understanding so that’s not being changed. John Favorite: Okay. I see what you’re trying to do but geometry wise it doesn’t work out with how low her property is in back and to have this, and her property line’s here. Her property is down here so then what happens here? Just… Mayor Furlong: Mr. Oehme. Paul Oehme: Well again, you know the grades tie into the property over here. They’re only changing. John Favorite: Just on the corner. Paul Oehme: Well I mean they change right in through here so this is, this area is being raised up to eliminate the low point. Mayor Furlong: Is it already lower than the property to the south? John Favorite: No it is not. Paul Oehme: Well. John Favorite: Just for that, just for that last 10 percent. Paul Oehme: Well just for this corner here I think it’s the low point. John Favorite: Just for that last 10 percent. Paul Oehme: Right so. Mayor Furlong: What I heard is that the low area in the southwest portion of this Parcel 1. John Favorite: Yes. Mayor Furlong: Where people said there was water standing, that that’s going to be filled in. Is that correct? Paul Oehme: Correct. Mayor Furlong: And then the rest, and then the additional soils will be put on top of that? 27 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 John Favorite: How do you fill that in? Her’s is, so then you’re going to be above her, the property to the south. James Brudos: If you look at. John Favorite: Pardon me sir, he’s not even the applicant so. Mayor Furlong: He’s representing the applicant and if I want him to speak I’ll let him speak so ask your question and then we’ll try to get an answer for it. John Favorite: I’m just trying to understand how you go from this to not have a slope in the rear yard. Mayor Furlong: Okay, Mr. Oehme. Paul Oehme: So again the house pad is going to be raised up. The water is going to be sheet drained around the building here. This area gets raised up and then redirected along the property lines into the drain tile system so you know this area is being raised up. The house is being, the house elevation is raised but the elevations along the property line remain the same. John Favorite: But a downpour for example or whatever, you get a gusher or one in a hundred storm every 6 years that we get, I mean it’s going to shed off the property and onto everybody else’s. It has to because it’s going to be elevated higher than everybody else. Paul Oehme: Right, it will and that’s typical for normal developments. John Favorite: Okay. Alright, thanks. Mayor Furlong: Mr. Brudos, anything you’d like to add? James Brudos: Well if you look at the grading proposal, if you look at the topography and the elevation they’ll pretty much stay. You see the lines in the southwestern corner. Mayor Furlong: You’re looking at Parcel 1 now? Southwest corner of Parcel 1. James Brudos: Yes, correct. That represents the topography and it descends from the back of her lot to the back of the Parcel 1 so the elevation change, her elevation is I believe 3 feet higher than the Parcel 1 is in the back of the lot. So there’s not going to be a low spot. It’s going to be a continual grade down. And it won’t be that significant of a grade as well. The areas that are being actually built up is around the foundation to shed water away from the building. So the low points are between the homes where the drain tile is located and the drain tile is I believe at its lowest point where it connects to the street on the south side is approximately 5 feet below grade so we’ve got plenty of slope. Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Anyone else who would like to address the council or the public hearing? 28 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 Peg Trager: I think it would be nice if somebody. Mayor Furlong: If you could step back up. Peg Trager: Physically see it you know. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Peg Trager: But just see this spot. It’s hard to imagine that it’s going to all drain towards the street. Especially when I’m behind it. Mayor Furlong: Right. Peg Trager: I don’t know. Maybe I’ll be just fine with a pond. I’m sure it’s going to be there because the way this land is. I don’t know. Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. John Corey: I’m the owner of Parcel number 2 and Parcel number 1. Mayor Furlong: If you could state your name and address for the record please. th John Corey: My name is John Corey. What’s the address? 6081 65 Street. James Brudos: 2061. Mayor Furlong: Where’s your current residence address Mr. Corey? John Corey: 6409 Oxbow Bend, Chanhassen. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. John Corey: We’ve been working on Parcel number 2 for 4 months now and we haven’t had any kind of flooding or water issues with there. We have some good drainage between Parcel number 1 and 2 when it rains. There’s some good drainage inbetween the two lots. We had a big rain storm where it rained 24 hours straight. We took a bunch of pictures which we gave you guys the pictures or when we sent in the proposal we showed the pictures. There’s no standing water whatsoever. Just in one area next to Parcel 1 where it butts up to the neighbor to the west. His lot is about 2 feet higher than our Parcel 1 where I heard that he had added dirt there anyways to raise his lot and he currently has an ice skating rink there that is probably about a half of a football field and that’s obviously going to drain into our lot as well causing it to flood so once we raise the water, or the ground level to be even with his lot we won’t have that flooding issue as well. So that’s all I have to say. 29 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Anyone else that would like to address the council on this matter? Actually you’ve spoken twice sir. Chris Jerdee: Well can I just respond to what he just said? I’m the neighbor to the west. Mayor Furlong: You are the neighbor to the west. I’ll give you one minute. Chris Jerdee: Yeah, thanks. Again Chris Jerdee, I live to the west. This problem has been around for 30 years. I’ve been there for 4. The dirt that’s there, I had some landscaping done. They moved some dirt out to level it out. I didn’t have a, I don’t know how much dirt you think I brought in. There was some brought in to fill low spots. The ice rink, it’s actually amusing that we’re here talking about an ice rink but I did install drain tile to help get rid of some of the surface water. Mayor Furlong: Good. Chris Jerdee: Not only to the ice rink. More the rain and the snow melt and like I said I tried to put a drain and pay for a drain on the Parcel 1 that he did not want me to install so. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright, thank you. Thank you Mr. Jerdee. Anyone else with new comments? Thank you everybody. If nobody else would like to speak, is there a motion to close the public hearing? Councilwoman Ernst: So moved. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Is there a second? Councilman Laufenburger: Second. Mayor Furlong: Any discussion on the motion to close the public hearing? Hearing none we’ll proceed with the vote. Councilwoman Ernst moved, Councilman Laufenburger seconded to close the public hearing. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0. The public hearing was closed. Mayor Furlong: Let’s bring it back to council then for discussion and comments or additional questions. If people have questions of staff. I do. Councilman Laufenburger. Councilman Laufenburger: Thank you. Paul, you used some terms that I think would be helpful for, it will be helpful for me to understand anyway. You talk about a sheet drain. What does sheet draining mean? Paul Oehme: So basically it’s just level ground elevation, a natural slope where the water will drain naturally from Point A to Point B basically. So it’s just a laminar flow across a ground. 30 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 Councilman Laufenburger: So any water that doesn’t go down into the ground and be absorbed, it just goes across the surface slowly. Paul Oehme: Right. Councilman Laufenburger: And it will, the sheet drain essentially you’re building kind of an upside down saucer, right? So the water just drains towards this tile. Paul Oehme: Correct. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. And you said the tile is how far below the ground, the surface of the ground? Paul Oehme: Anywhere between 2 to 3 feet. Councilman Laufenburger: What is between the tile, this 6 inch pipe? What’s between the tile and the surface right above it? Paul Oehme: Between the tile. There’s just. Councilman Laufenburger: Dirt or is it gravel? Paul Oehme: Well yeah it’s dirt but I believe in this area the soil will be corrected so typically would bring in granular material. Sand and typically would bed the tile in that. Councilman Laufenburger: So it would make sense then this sheet, this saucer that we’re building, potentially building, the water would go towards the edges and then it would essentially fall through this gravel or rock or something and it would go straight down to the tile. Paul Oehme: Correct. Councilman Laufenburger: Two feet. Paul Oehme: Yeah, two feet. Councilman Laufenburger: What about water that is below the drain tile? What does that do? Paul Oehme: Yeah so I mean, if there’s water below the tile it’s not going to be able to get into the tile but if the water table raises to a certain elevation above the tile, invert or top of the tile, that water, the tile will be perforated so the water will have ability to go into that tile at that point in time. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay so the notion here, in my mind I’m thinking, this drain tile does not exist today is that correct? Paul Oehme: Correct. 31 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. So this drain tile and the gravel potentially above it is really creating kind of the edge of a pool. So any water that’s in there, it’s not going to be able to go outside of the pool. It’s going to go to the edge of the pool and then go into the drain tile. Paul Oehme: Right. Correct. So anything that’s, any soils that are corrected, replacing the clay with a granular material, a sand or whatever, that water will be fixed into that site. Into that excavation area and we’re the, any water that would end up in that location will be able to be discharged or removed by the tile. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. And the water that is doing this natural drainage today, if it’s not going into a drain tile, it’s going to a low point and those points appear to be the southwest corner of the property and potentially the southeast over towards Parcel 2, is that correct? Paul Oehme: Right. Right. Councilman Laufenburger: And some of it goes to Ms. Trager’s property on the south, right? Paul Oehme: Well I think Ms. Trager’s property, most of that water drains from her property onto Parcel 1. Councilman Laufenburger: Onto Parcel 1. Paul Oehme: Parcel 1 and then eventually onto Parcel 2 so we’re, again with this proposal we’re trying to eliminate that low point on Parcel 1. There would be some, again some drainage that would end up going, all the drainage would end up going to the north but there, again there would be some drainage that would end up on Parcel 2 but we’re trying to capture as much of the water on Parcel 1. Directing it into the drain tile and then heading north before it ends upon Parcel 2. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Next question. This is a proposed grading and none of this will occur until and unless a building permit is pulled, is that correct? Paul Oehme: That’s correct. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay so any expense associated with this grading and tiling plan, this will not be incurred by either the developer or a builder until such time that a permit is pulled. Paul Oehme: Yeah, I mean that’s, Kate can answer that but. Councilman Laufenburger: Is that correct Kate? Paul Oehme: We have to have a building permit and approved plans before they can start construction. 32 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Alright, so let’s talk more about the, can you tell me is there tile, is there planned tile on the south end of this parcel? Paul Oehme: There is not. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay so I’m looking at, what I’m looking at right now is just below and to the left of the letter P. It looks like there’s a catch basin. That’s the beginning of the tile on the west side of the property. Paul Oehme: That’s correct. Councilman Laufenburger: And then straight east of the L there’s a catch basin. So from there all the way over to the lower left there’s no drain tile there. Paul Oehme: Right and again that’s sheet draining. Councilman Laufenburger: That’s sheet draining and the sheet draining would be towards both the west and the east side of the property. Paul Oehme: Right. A lot of the water’s going to get directed into the catch basins. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Let’s talk about soil corrections. Seven feet, that’s 7 feet vertical right? Paul Oehme: Correct. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. So you’re going to request that the soil corrections occur 5 feet below the current water table? Paul Oehme: Right. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Paul Oehme: And again the soil engineer took soil borings out here. I don’t know there’s a couple. Councilman Laufenburger: This is the geotechnical report. Paul Oehme: The geotechnical report so they took several borings out here. We have to verify that just to make sure that you know it’s not 8 feet in some areas so we definitely have to be out there and make sure that all the soils are taken out that are unsuitable. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. And so you take out the mottled soil, I think is the way Kate described it, and that would be clay, right? Paul Oehme: Right. Right. 33 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 Councilman Laufenburger: Including the septic system. How deep is the septic system, do we know? Paul Oehme: Oh, I don’t know. Typically about 5 to 8 feet. Five to 6 feet down. Councilman Laufenburger: So essentially, and by the way the soil corrections will it occur over all 15,165 square feet of this parcel? Paul Oehme: No, it’s mainly addressing the foundation soil corrections underneath the house pad. There is some, again there is some soil corrections a little bit outside of the house pad but a majority of it is, will be dealt with for the house pad. Councilman Laufenburger: So this is to give a strong footing if you will for the house pad so that it doesn’t. Paul Oehme: Move. Councilman Laufenburger: So it doesn’t move. Good, okay. I think that’s all I have for now. Thank you. Mayor Furlong: Alright, thank you. Any additional questions? Councilwoman Ernst: I have one quick question. Mayor Furlong: Councilwoman Ernst. Councilwoman Ernst: So Paul you said that there is no drain tile on the south side of the property, correct? Paul Oehme: Correct. Councilwoman Ernst: Is there a catch basin on the south side? Paul Oehme: Well there’s one on the west side, the southwest side, and there’s one on the southeast side. Councilwoman Ernst: Okay. Paul Oehme: Along the property line but there’s not on the south end of the property line itself. Todd Gerhardt: Paul show her the one with 61.5 topography is in the middle and then half the lot is to drain to the one catch basin. Paul Oehme: Right, to this one. 34 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 Todd Gerhardt: And then the other half is to the other. It’s like a foot lower where each of those catch basins are than the 1061.5. Paul Oehme: Right. So the area here is depressed to capture some of that water from the back yards and direct it in the catch basins. Todd Gerhardt: So sheet drain. Paul Oehme: Yep. Mayor Furlong: So those catch basins are at the surface but they’re lower than the elevation of the back of the lot? Paul Oehme: Right, correct. So it’s, again it’s going to sheet drain from the back yard and end up in this catch basin and the grading along the property line is such that it’s 2 percent to the north. There’s another depression here at this catch basin to capture that water that’s on the side of the house and then the drain tile ends up to the north so, and then all the property will drain to the street on the north side of the house. Mayor Furlong: Any other questions at this time? Councilwoman Ernst: Well I’m just wondering if it would make sense to do anything on the south side of the house in addition to what we’ve already talked about. Paul Oehme: Well we could talk to the developer or the contractor about that. I don’t know if they would be running out of grade in terms of trying to get the, any more drain tile out here but that’s something we can discuss. I mean we’re eliminating the, we’re eliminating the low point, the depression here. We’re capturing as much of the water in these catch basins. I don’t know how much more, adding another catch basin to the south will help. Councilwoman Ernst: And that’s my question. If we do something there is it going to help? I don’t. Paul Oehme: I don’t think it will because we have two catch basins here already and we’re capturing a majority of the water that ends up in this back yard already. Councilwoman Ernst: Okay, thank you. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Councilman Laufenburger. Councilman Laufenburger: Yeah, yeah. Paul there’s a, the discussion from the neighbors, I think maybe it brought into question whether or not your plan would work. Have we done anything like this or have developers done anything like this? This drain tile around the perimeter of a lot in the past. 35 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 Paul Oehme: Oh I think we have and that’s maybe a key question too but I know we’ve required drain tile in the past for certain hard or more difficult lots so. Councilman Laufenburger: Is there anything, this seems like, and I’m not an engineer but this seems like just an engineering problem that you plan for and you execute on, is that correct? Paul Oehme: Yeah, I mean we’re comfortable with the design moving forward. Kate Aanenson: I would give the closest example to this is the one we recently approved which th was the Knoblauch subdivision, which had, we came through off of West 86 Street. Councilman Laufenburger: The Mission Hills area? Kate Aanenson: Yep. Came through that. Mayor Furlong: Sixteen lots. Kate Aanenson: Yeah, came through that. Yeah, the 16 lots and we had them do some soil investigation on that and those, we did a PUD on that one. Some smaller lots and that’s also a cul-de-sac on the end of that and so. Todd Gerhardt: Settlers West. Lakeside all have rear yard drainage systems where catch basins to take the stormwater off the homes. Kate Aanenson: Yeah. Where they’re adjacent to a bluff or where there were challenges, yep. So those were engineered to make sure we had positive flow to the street as opposed to the over the bluff. Councilman Laufenburger: I just have one more question Kate. Is there anything about request for subdivision that requires either a variance or, anything that would require our approval for a deviation in order for this subdivision to occur? Kate Aanenson: No, when it originally came in we felt that under the subdivision regulations we didn’t have enough information to address the drainage issues. Based on the geotechnical report that we did, again that’s engineering and we do sometimes this on other subdivisions that based on that we’ve addressed those as conditions of approval. That based on that it would meet the subdivision regulations without variance. Just conditions of approval. Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Councilwoman Ernst question. Councilwoman Ernst: So and this point is for Paul but Paul if, I mean we want to make sure that this is the right thing to do if we move forward with it but my question really is, after this is done, who’s going to monitor it to make sure? I mean I don’t want us spending a lot of time out there. That’s the purpose of us going through this whole process but how do we, how do we make sure that it’s working like it’s supposed to? 36 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 Paul Oehme: So what’s being proposed is a private system so it connects into the city’s system but you know we’re going to be monitoring it and making sure that the plan is built per plan so after that you know it’s up to the property owner of Parcel 1 to make sure that the catch basins are cleaned out on a regular basis and they’re not clogged and that there’s no debris in the tile so it’s functioning properly. Councilwoman Ernst: And do we have that as a requirement somewhere where that’s the responsibility of that homeowner? Paul Oehme: Well it’s again it’s a private system so it’s, it’s part of the development plan that that’s their responsibility to maintain those systems. Just like a water service or sanitary sewer service. Councilwoman Ernst: Okay. Mayor Furlong: If there are no more questions, thoughts. Comments. By members of the council. Mr. McDonald. Councilman McDonald: Comments at this point? Mayor Furlong: I think so, unless there are additional questions let’s move onto comments and see where we go. Councilman McDonald: Well I mean I’ve listened to all of this and yeah it is an engineering problem. It does sound as though we have a solution. Whether it works or not, if I were living on the street I guess I’d be a little skeptical too but you know we do have some experience with this. We’ve come a long ways in this city in dealing with water problems and I think we’ve learned a lot as to how to control water on certain lots. We’ve gotten a lot better so I have confidence in the engineering plan. The only other thing that I looked at is does it meet the code requirements and it does. Based upon all of that I see no reason not to vote for it. Again I understand your concerns about the water but you’re not the only area in town that’s had concerns about water and we’ve managed to address those in other areas. And I do think you know we had the thing the last council meeting about monitoring systems and everything and we agreed at that point, it’s up to the individual owners. I mean they live in the neighborhood. They understand the importance of the system. It’s their responsibility to take care of that. It’s not the City’s. We approve a plan that we believe will work. It’s up to them to make sure that it continues to work, or if not to fix it so based upon all of that, I see no reason not to vote for it. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Other comments. Councilwoman Tjornhom. Councilwoman Tjornhom: Yeah I also see, I see no reason not to vote for it. I think tonight we had a healthy discussion regarding water and drainage and obviously there’s still some anticipation as to what the future will hold if this improvements do actually come to fruition and they’re put in place. I feel confident saying that staff feels confident that they have engineered something that should alleviate the problems and it sounds to me like the water problem is coming from, it’s coming up. It’s not the rain water coming down. It’s coming up from the 37 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 ground and so hopefully putting drain tiles in and changing the elevation will alleviate some of that pressure that now is there on that lot and maybe the rest of your lots also. It does seem to meet all the requirements to be, have a lot split and so I too will just be supporting what staff has put in front of us. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Other comments. Councilwoman Ernst. Councilwoman Ernst: Yeah so obviously the applicant has met the ordinance requirements in terms of the 24 percent impervious surface, the setbacks as well as the street and utility requirements. My concern really comes to the drainage issue obviously and my point was really not to make sure that the City was going to monitor the water problem but to make sure that we had that documented somewhere where the developer or the owner’s responsible for that. So based on what we have in front of us today I would support this project. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Mr. Laufenburger. Councilman Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Mayor. I think that it was good to hear the citizens talk about what your concerns are and I understand your concerns about the water because you’re sharing examples of what’s happening with your own property. Mr. Atherton you talked about water in your basement. Boy I’m very sympathetic to that. I’ve had water in my basement in some of my homes and it’s difficult to deal with it. If that was an alert for what might happen with the property owner in Parcel 1, well he’s not going to have a basement. He or she’s not going to have a basement so that’s going to be, that issue will be resolved. But I think there’s a kind of an underlying thing here that we need to not forget and that is that the property owner has rights to use his property, his or her property in accordance with what’s available to him and it seems to me because there’s you know all the setbacks are met. All of the lot sizes. The building footprint. All of those things are met. We can’t stand in the way of that property owner th exercising his rights, just as any of the other property owners on West 65 or even on Crestview. They have rights to use their land as they choose to as long as they follow the guidelines. I think that there’s something underneath all of this though that is kind of getting in the way of this neighborhood accepting this and that is, you know I said this a couple weeks ago or maybe a month ago that you know we can have ordinances to affect setback and we can have an ordinance to affect you know property lines and stuff like that but we don’t have any ordinances for neighborhood harmony and I’m thinking that maybe we should explore some of those a little bit. I will vote in support of this subdivision. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. I think the, I appreciate the comments everybody made tonight and the concerns clearly water. Ground water problems have been an issue for a long time in this neighborhood, as they are in other parts of the city. This subdivision isn’t going to correct all of that. There’s no expectation I don’t think on anybody’s part that it would. As was mentioned I think a couple of council members here, one of our jobs is to make sure when somebody comes in for a request that they’re following the law. That they’re following the ordinances and those are rules that are consistent for everybody so everybody plays by the same rules. One of the questions that came up tonight was what about all the neighbors? I mean if this is the first one, what about the other ones and let’s plan ahead. And a very valid question and I think the answer that I would have to that is that if the other properties follow the same rules then they should 38 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 receive the same result and if that result is that you know as we look at these, the first question is, is the proposal meeting our ordinances? For all situations we talk about the dimensions of the property and the proposed setbacks for a possible house. Impervious surface coverage. Those are all there and we deal with a few metes and bounds subdivisions on an annual basis. This is not the first one that we work with but they come and usually they don’t have with them the added I’ll call baggage of a high water table and water problems that this one obviously has. That this neighborhood has and in those cases, to my recollection we don’t require drain tile. We don’t require grading plans necessarily. It’s fairly straight forward. If they meet the definitions we approve it. Here I think, and I’ll give credit to the residents for raising the issue and staff for dealing with the issue, it’s something more than just simple lines on a map. Lines on a parcel. Are the dimensions correct? Are the setbacks correct? Is the impervious coverage correct? One of the challenges is to make sure that the change the new lot doesn’t create negative effects on the neighboring property owners. I think that is part of, from an ordinance standpoint and driving water from one parcel to another parcel would certainly create a negative effect and I think here what’s, what’s been clear to me is that the engineering staff at the city and the experts that were retained by the property owner have said there’s a water problem there and here are ways to correct the water problem. Water is a problem when you don’t want it there. When you need it, want it and it’s not there, then it’s also a problem but that’s a drought and that’s a different deal. We don’t have that here. So by designing and engineering a plan that will address the problem of the water on this newly created parcel. It’s not going to fix the existing parcel, Parcel 2. It’s not going to fix other problems in the neighborhood. Drain tile systems might be the solution there for those that are interested in doing that but I think here the conditions in the report that are being recommended I think are appropriate. While they add extra burden and extra costs to the property owner they do so in a way to minimize the negative impact that this subdivision would otherwise likely have on the neighboring property so I think that’s appropriate to do that. And the question was how do we know that these are going to happen? The answer I think is what I was expected to here and that’s through the permit and the inspection process. If anybody’s built a house, put an addition on, sought a permit to do that. Everybody does that I know Kate every time that they add an addition or do an improvement to their house they get a permit but if they do that they’ll know that inspectors come out and that’s just part of that process and whatever that is, and in this case there’ll be additional inspections with regard to the site preparation. With regard to the grading plan and making sure that the drainage system is installed correctly and to plan so I think those are the checks and balances to make sure it’s installed correctly and is going to do what it intends to do. So I think from that standpoint the rules are there so that as Mr. Laufenburger said, each of us who own property in the city, we have private property rights and as a government body we need to protect those but we need to do it in a way so that somebody exercising their private property rights, in this case to subdivide, doesn’t impose a negative effect on the neighbors and I think that check, that balance there is with the engineering plan for the drainage system is to prevent that so I think from that standpoint the subdivision, it does meet the ordinance for approval. I think we should approve it and also including the conditions to prevent the negative effects on neighboring properties because of the subdivision and have the inspection department and engineering department make sure, the planning department make sure that eventually when a house is built on this new parcel that it’s done correctly and that the plan is followed so for that reason I would suggest and encourage the council to support this plan. If there are any other comments, I’d be happy to entertain them or certainly entertain a motion. Councilwoman Ernst. 39 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 Councilwoman Ernst: I wasn’t there. Councilwoman Tjornhom: It’s right there. Councilwoman Ernst: Oh sorry. Mayor Furlong: That’s okay. Councilwoman Ernst: Chanhassen, I make a motion that Chanhassen City Council approve a resolution approving a metes and bounds subdivision creating two lots subject to the conditions of the staff report and adoption of the attached Findings of Fact and Decision. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Is there a second? Councilman McDonald: Second. Mayor Furlong: Motion’s been made and seconded. Any discussion on the motion? Hearing none we’ll proceed with the vote. Resolution #2014-78: Councilwoman Ernst moved, Councilman McDonald seconded that the Chanhassen City Council approves a metes and bounds subdivision creating two lots subject to the following conditions and adopts the attached Findings of Fact and Decision: Building 1. The existing structure on proposed Parcel 2 must be provided with sanitary sewer connection – permit required. 2. Properties must be provided with separate sewer and water services. 3. Existing Subsurface Sewage Treatment Site on proposed Parcel 1 must be properly discontinued and abandoned – permit required. Engineering 1. The City Attorney shall draft and the developer shall execute a “Grant of Permanent Easement for Public Drainage and Utility Purposes” document. This document shall be recorded with the metes and bounds subdivision. 2. A roadway, drainage and utility easement must be dedicated over the portion of the existing cul-de-sac within the property and 15 feet beyond the edge of the road. 3. Prior to recording the subdivision the developer shall pay the $45 GIS fee: $25 (subdivision) plus $10/parcel. 40 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 4. Prior to recording the subdivision a $10,000 security must be provided to ensure that the street is restored. The security can be released when the City determines that the patch is in good condition after one freeze-thaw cycle. 5. Sewer and water hookup charges are due for the new lot, a portion of which shall be collected before the metes and bounds subdivision is recorded: Water: 1 unit x $1,886/unit = $1,886 Sewer: 1 unit x $664/unit = $664 6. If the final subdivision submittals are received after 2014, all fees shall be recalculated based on the rates in effect at that time. 7. The remaining 70% of the sanitary sewer and water hookup fees must be paid with the building permit at the rate in effect at that time. 8. A plumbing permit is required for the private storm sewer; the plumbing inspector will inspect the connection to the city storm sewer manhole. 9. On Parcel 1, the proposed home style as required by City Code Section 18-40(4)2(iii) is a slab-on-grade home. Based on the Interstate Geotechnical Engineering’s observations, the groundwater elevation is 1.8 feet below the ground elevation of the soil boring. The developer must verify the surface elevation of the boring location to determine the elevation of the groundwater; the lowest floor must be minimum three feet above that elevation per City Code Section 18-40(4)2(i). Environmental Resource Specialist 1. Tree protection fencing will be required around any preserved trees. It shall be installed prior to grading and located at the drip lines of the trees. 2. Parcel 1 is required to have one tree planted in the front yard. Parks 1. Park fees of $5,800 shall be paid for each new single-family lot prior to the recording of the property deed. Planning 1. Deeds shall be submitted to the City for review and recorded at Carver County for the two parcels. 2. A building permit shall not be issued unless all soil corrections have been completed as indicated in the attached exhibits titled “Subsurface Soil Investigation” dated October 25, 2014 and November 13, 2014. 41 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 Water Resources Coordinator 1. Total surface water management fees due prior to recording the property deed are $1,914.55. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0. AWARD OF BID FOR HIGHOVER BOULDER WALL REPAIR AND APPROVE AGREEMENTS. Mayor Furlong: Let’s start with a staff report on this item. Mr. Oehme, is that you? Paul Oehme: Yes it is. Mayor Furlong: Okay, great. Thank you everyone. Paul Oehme: Thank you Mayor, City Council members. This is again to consider approval of bid for reconstructing a boulder wall that had failed in June of this year so just a little background about this area. The Highover development was approved by the City Council in 1997 along with the boulder wall. The boulder wall was constructed with the development. Originally the wall was designed and planned for, for a future trail which is shown here. On this plan, this is the retaining walls as they are. The outlot, which is right here, which most of the boulder wall is on, was also planned for that trail. But since the development was approved there is no future plans for that trail to be installed. Most of the wall again was constructed within the City right-of-way or again on the outlot, and this Highover Homeowners Association maintains. Mows and maintains this outlot for the city. It’s kind of an entry monument to their th neighborhood so. On June 19 of this year we did have one of the, a significant rain event and prior to that this spring and into the early part of summer was one of the wettest years the City of Chanhassen has on record. Soils around the wall became very saturated and loose and the soil strength was significantly reduced because of that soil moisture in the wall. In the soil in back of the wall became unstructural and very weak at that time. Portions of the wall, the portion of the wall that did fail was main section right in the middle of where the, or a large section of the wall did fail but the City did come back and have to remove or knock down a significant amount more of the wall because that wall was, was starting to move and slough off as well so for safety reasons the City decided to knock that portion of the wall down as well. The City also did meet with FEMA representatives and the wall is eligible for FEMA funding as well based upon the rain event that took place in June of 19 of this year. So the proposed reconstruction plan is shown here. The City’s responsible for, we feel addressing the portion of the wall that sits within our city right-of-way along Highover Drive and then on the outlot. A portion of the wall that is on private property we have recommended that that portion of the wall be paid for either by the homeowners association or the private party. Property owner that’s adjacent to the wall. Staff did lead the effort in terms of surveying and geotechnical and design work to get the project moving. We have met with the property owner and HOA and they both proposed to pay for that portion of the wall outside of the right-of-way and the outlot. This is just a cross section of what the new wall would look like. Right now there’s clay material that’s in back of the wall. That 42 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 material would be excavated out. Tiered out and replaced with granular material for better drainage in back of the wall. Also larger drainage rock would be constructed in back of the wall for additional drainage. That water would be directed into a drain tile in back of both tiers of the wall for, and then that drain tile would be connected to the storm sewer system. Also a geotechnical grid, geo grid would be constructed in conjunction with the wall as well. This adds additional soil. Additional strength to the soil in back of the wall so it has a less likely, less likely for it to move in the future. The City did look at alternatives too based upon council’s review of the project back in I think September when we visited at the work session. We did look at sloping the, removing the wall and sloping the area back. We would still need a small retaining wall, about a 6 foot high retaining wall here so on the south end of the, where the wall currently exists today to support so we wouldn’t have to grade into the drainage or the driveway that currently exists here. This plan again would necessitate removal of a significant amount of trees from the back yard. The grading would basically end up right in the back. It doesn’t show here but right to the basically the foundation of the property as well so staff is recommending that we go with the first alternative which is basically to rebuild the wall in it’s current configuration but moving the wall outside of the right-of-way. We did take bids on this project, on this alternate design as well and that was, that came in at right around $91,000 for this work. nd So based upon the plans that were produced for reconstruction of the wall, on October 2 staff did take bids. We did receive 5 bids for the replacement that is shown here. We did R.J. Valek was the low bidder on the project. R.J. Valek has not worked for the City of Chanhassen before so staff did check references and the references did check out. Their work has been acceptable for other boulder walls. They do a lot of bounder walls. Not just for cities but for developers in the metro area here. So the cost for the project, for construction based upon the low bid, acceptable bid is shown here. Homeowners association has agreed to fund $8,000 worth of the wall that’s on the private property. The homeowner is requesting that his share of the property be, or her share of the cost for the wall on the private property be assessed back to them. The City is proposing that the fund, to fund the drain tile and the geo grid, it’s an enhancement that FEMA is not responsive, that they don’t pay for. So we’re looking at funding that portion. Excuse me. So the project moves forward. Mayor Furlong: Take your time. Paul Oehme: Okay. Mayor Furlong: Looks like final completion is June, 2015. Is that about right? Paul Oehme: That’s what we’re proposing. Mayor Furlong: Alright. Paul Oehme: We’d start in December. Any questions? Mayor Furlong: No. Not going to put you through that. I think Mr. Gerhardt’s going to answer the questions. 43 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 Paul Oehme: Alright. So yeah we’ve been meeting with the property owners for several months and negotiating out the terms and who’s responsible for what so this is the best, I think the best alternative that we came up with. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Questions for anyone except Mr. Oehme. No questions for staff. Councilman Laufenburger. Councilman Laufenburger: Paul or Todd, you made the comment that the wall will be built not on the right-of-way. I think I interpret from that that the wall was originally built, a portion of it in the right-of-way but now it will be rebuilt not in the right-of-way. Am I interpreting that correct Paul? Paul Oehme: That’s correct. So when the wall was originally, the first tier of the wall was built within the right-of-way. Councilman Laufenburger: Yeah. Paul Oehme: The proposal is to build the wall outside of the right-of-way and so the right-of- way is right here so we’ll move it back about a foot so it’s on private property. Councilman Laufenburger: So how much, assuming then if the wall is moved toward the home, up at the top how much of the grass that the homeowner currently has, how much of. Not currently because I know, you know the wall’s down but how much is he or she losing as a result of us moving that wall? Paul Oehme: We’re not anticipating them to lose anything in the back yard. There’s the tier here. We’re looking at reducing the distance between the first tier and the second tier. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. And what’s in that tier right now? Is it grass or is it going to be prairie grass or landscaping or? Paul Oehme: Well we’re going to be putting back grass. There was trees out there originally or previously to the wall failure. We’re not recommending that trees be planted back in there again. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Alright. And just one last. Mayor Furlong: If I could clarify something? Councilman Laufenburger: Yeah, go ahead. Mayor Furlong: Mr. Laufenburger. Mr. Oehme or Mr. Gerhardt. I mean the space inbetween the walls is private property, correct? Paul Oehme: It is correct. 44 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 Mayor Furlong: So there’s no, I think the key is whether the actions there put any future liability on the City. Paul Oehme: Right. Mayor Furlong: If they did plant something that… Paul Oehme: I mean just based on the comments that the wall designer gave us, they wouldn’t recommend that but that’s up to the homeowners, the HOA if they want to re-landscape that or not. Councilman Laufenburger: That’s a good point. The wall will be entirely on private property, not in the right-of-way. Paul Oehme: Well most of. Todd Gerhardt: Some will be on our. Paul Oehme: Let me get back to that sheet here again. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Paul Oehme: So right now this section of the wall is on private property. In the future this section of the wall will all be on private property as well. The only portion of the wall that’s being reconstructed will be on the City outlot, right. There won’t be any wall constructed in the right-of-way anymore. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay. Paul Oehme: Rebuilt in the right-of-way. Mayor Furlong: So the City owns an outlot. We own property there and the wall, the new wall will be across some of the City property. Paul Oehme: Correct. Right. Yeah the way it’s designed right now, we’re reducing the risk as much as we can for the City in terms of future wall failure. Most of the wall will be on private property from now on. Councilman Laufenburger: Okay, thank you. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Other questions. Mr. McDonald. Councilman McDonald: Mr. Oehme, when we redo the wall are we going to use the same construction of the big boulders or are we going to go to something that, you know maybe is a little less likely to erode and fail? 45 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 Paul Oehme: So yeah, the way it’s designed right now is the boulder walls would be re-used in the future so we’re enhancing the design of this wall. Or again we’re having the wall, have better drainage material behind the wall and that’s, we think what caused the failure of the wall to begin with so adding the sand, adding the geo grid and adding the drain tile, there was no drain tile out there. There is no drain tile out there right now so adding those 3 items we think will definitely enhance the structural strength of this wall. Councilman McDonald: Okay and just one more question for you. The contractor who won this, you say that they haven’t done work for the City before but they’ve work for other cities with boulder walls. Did you kind of validate them and their work and you know what they’ve done before in the past? Paul Oehme: Yes and I actually visited one of the sites too. I think it was in Minnetrista so it’s not a tiered wall but it’s about an 8 foot high wall and actually that wall in Minnetrista did fall down in this June event as well so. I talked to the city engineer out there and they were happy with their work. Councilman McDonald: Okay. Mayor Furlong: So was their work to, did they initially construct that wall or did they replace it? Paul Oehme: No they replaced it. The failure. Councilwoman Ernst: Thank you for that clarification. Councilman Laufenburger: I never doubted Mr. Oehme. Mayor Furlong: I just, you know if it’s acceptable that’s all you’re going to get out of him. Other questions. Todd Gerhardt: His firm specializes in reconstructing boulder walls throughout the Twin Cities. Mayor Furlong: They’ve had a lot of recent history. Todd Gerhardt: Yes. Mayor Furlong: Liability issues, and this may be as much for Mr. Knutson as anyone. Looking through the agreements with the HOA, with the homeowners association and the individual property owner it appears that the City is protected from liability both in terms of the construction as well as no obligation if it should fail again. No obligation to replace the wall. Is that correct? Roger Knutson: That is correct on the private property. Mayor Furlong: On the private property and obviously any wall that’s on our property we’d be responsible. 46 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 Roger Knutson: Yes. Mayor Furlong: As we’d expect any property owner to be responsible. Roger Knutson: That’s correct. Mayor Furlong: Okay. But in terms of future replacement or construction warranties, those type of things, there are none. The City isn’t taking on any risk. Roger Knutson: That is correct. Mayor Furlong: With this, with these agreements. Okay. Thank you. Todd Gerhardt: Paul are we getting any warranty work? Paul Oehme: Our typical warranty is one year. Todd Gerhardt: One year. Mayor Furlong: Okay. And does, does the contractor, Mr. Oehme do they have, are they appropriately bonded and insured? Paul Oehme: They have to be, yes. Mayor Furlong: Okay. So we have verification of that? Paul Oehme: We do and they have to submit that with, before the contract is signed. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright. Thank you. Any other questions? I think this is a good solution to a pretty big problem so I’m certainly open to comments and thoughts from members of the council or a motion. Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, I just want to thank Paul for his efforts on this. He’s spent numerous hours working with the homeowners association, the homeowner involved. Meeting on site. Several meetings so you know this is a great solution to a problem that nature kind of created and working with FEMA on it is, wasn’t a simple process either so thanks to Paul. He did a great job. Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you for stating that. Thank you Mr. Oehme. Councilman McDonald: Mr. Mayor if you’re ready I’ll do the motion. Mayor Furlong: I am. Councilman McDonald. 47 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 Councilman McDonald: Okay I propose that the City Council accepts bids and awards the contract for the Highover Boulder Wall Repair to R.J. Valek Construction in the amount of $113,590 and approves agreements with the Highover Homeowners Association and property owner. Award of the contract is contingent on the City receiving the funding from the Highover Homeowners Association. Councilwoman Ernst: Second. Mayor Furlong: Motion’s been made and seconded. Is there any discussion on the motion? Seeing none we’ll proceed with the vote. Resolution #2014-79: Councilman McDonald moved, Councilwoman Ernst seconded that the Chanhassen City Council accepts bids and awards the contract for the Highover Boulder Wall Repair to R.J. Valek Construction in the amount of $113,590 and approves agreements with the Highover Homeowners Association and property owner. Award of the contract is contingent on the City receiving the funding from the Highover Homeowners Association. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0. COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS. Mayor Furlong: Any presentations? Comments from members of the council. Councilman Laufenburger: I do. Mayor Furlong: Councilman Laufenburger. Councilman Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Mayor. Two weeks ago on Veteran’s Day I had the privilege of participating in three different schools. Excelsior Elementary School, Chaska Middle School West, and Chapel Hill Academy and I just want to, hats off to those educational institutions that make it a priority to demonstrate to the children in our community the importance of remembering and honoring those people who have served and not only hats off to the kids that do this but also to the teachers and the administrators who make it important to celebrate that event in a very honoring way so that was one thing. And then also the American th Legion does a wonderful job offering a meal to all veterans on that Tuesday evening, the 11 day th of the 11 month. Anyway it’s good to be part of this community that does such a good job in recognizing veterans. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Other thoughts and comments from members of the council. If not, Mr. Gerhardt. 48 Chanhassen City Council – November 24, 2014 ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS. Todd Gerhardt: Just a couple of things. We had our successful closing on the Dakota Retail development at Dakota and Highway 5. The new property owner is planning on demoing the building yet this winter meaning any time between now and February. And then starting construction this spring and so always nice to get through a successful closing with no issues. Second thing is a search for Assistant City Manager. One more interview tomorrow and we’ll wrap that process up with a decision later in the day and so look for an announcement later in the week and hopefully negotiations go well and we can get a new Assistant City Manager on board. That’s it. Mayor Furlong: Sounds good. Any questions for Mr. Gerhardt or his staff? No, okay. CORRESPONDENCE DISCUSSION. Mayor Furlong: I’ll just point out the City’s portfolio analysis was included in the correspondence packet and appreciate one, I know Mr. Sticha’s not here but Mr. Gerhardt if you could relay to him, another positive report. It appears we continue to be well balanced and with strong money management so thank you to him and his efforts and everything that’s done to make sure that our City stays on a strong financial footing. Todd Gerhardt: I will. Thank you. And also reference the Mosquito Control summary of work done in Chanhassen as its minus 17 degrees out. Mayor Furlong: Weather, cold weather’s the best thing for mosquitoes. Roger Knutson: They’re all under control now. Todd Gerhardt: Yeah Roger’s got them now. Mayor Furlong announced that the City Council would be going into Executive Session to discuss the City Manager’s Performance Evaluation immediately following adjournment of the regular City Council meeting. Councilwoman Ernst moved, Councilman Laufenburger seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0. The City Council meeting was adjourned at 9:05 p.m. Submitted by Todd Gerhardt City Manager Prepared by Nann Opheim 49