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G-1 Design Development Bandimere Park MEMORANDUM CITY OF TO: Park and Recreation Commission CHANHASSEN FROM: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director 7700 PO Market Boulevard DATE: May 27, 2015 Chanhassen MN 55317 SUBJ: Design Development Discussion for Future Improvements at Administration Bandimere Community Park, Amy Bower—Hoisington Koegler Phone 952 2271100 Group, Inc Fax 952 2271110 BACKGROUND Building Inspections Phone 952 2271180 The original 32 acres of property for Bandimere Community Park were acquired in Fax 952 2271190 1988 after a park improvement referendum in which two of four questions passed. Engineering Nine years later, another park referendum was approved authorizing the initial Phone 952 2271160 construction of the park. At the time when Bandimere Community Park was first Fax 952 2271170 developed, a well-rounded park master plan including tennis courts, hockey/ice skating facilities, and ball fields was proposed However, an ovemdmg desire to build Finance the maximum number of ball fields that the site could accommodate pushed aside the Phone 952 2271140 desires to include skating,hockey and tennis in the original construction plan Fax 952 2271110 Park&Recreation Most recently, another 4 5 acres of land has been added to the park along with a new Phone 952 2271120 park entrance being constructed. With the acquisition of the final pieces of open land Fax 952 2271110 adjacent to the park, the community can again realize the opportunity to fulfill the desires for expanded park attractions. Recreation Center 2310 Coulter Boulevard To help facilitate the planned expansion of the park, a series of public education Phone 952 2271400 Fax 952 2271404 articles and meetings were published and convened in 2014 Planning& • Spring 2014 Newsletter Article—`Expansion Planning For Bandimere Natural Resources Community Park Scheduled" Phone 952 2271130 Fax 952 2271110 • March 11, 2014—Park and Recreation Commission Bandimere Park Expansion work session Public Works • April 22, 2014 -Public open house to discuss expansion planning for 7901 Park Place Bandimere Community Park Phone 952 2271300 • May 28, 2014—Staff recommendation concerning proposed Bandimere Fax 952 2271310 Community Park expansion preliminary site plan Senior Center • June 23, 2014—Park and Recreation Commission recommendation concerning Phone 952 2271125 Bandimere Park expansion planning delivered to City Council Fax 952 2271110 • Fall 2014—Park and Trail Fund Capital Improvement Program allocations of $460,000 in 2016 for a Bandimere Park hockey rink and associated Website improvements and $500,000 in 2018 for the construction of a large picnic www ci chanhassen mn us shelter and associated improvements were approved by the City Council Chanhassen is a Community for Life-Providing for Today and Planning for Tomorrow Park&Recreation Commission May 27, 2015 Page 2 DISCUSSION Tonight's design development discussion is intended to further define plans for the new park amenities and refine cost estimates for each This information will assist with your upcoming discussion regarding a 2016 to 2020 Capital Improvement Program recommendation to the City Council Please find attached illustrated sight plans and cost estimates for improvements currently being proposed Amy Bower, a Landscape Architect with Hoisington Koegler Group will be in attendance to present these matenals and information ATTACHMENTS 1 Illustrated Site Plans dated May 13, 2015 Prepared by HKGI 2 Updated Cost Estimates dated May 13, 2015 Prepared by HKGI 3 Park and Trail Fund Capital Improvement Program Funding Sheets, $460,000 in 2016 for a Bandimere Park hockey rink and associated improvements and $500,000 in 2018 for the construction of a large picnic shelter and associated improvements 4 Park&Recreation Commission recommendation concerning Bandimere Park Expansion dated June 23, 2014 5 City Council Work Session Summary Minutes dated June 23, 2014 6 Staff Recommendation Concerning Proposed Bandimere Community Park Expansion dated May 28, 2014 7 Park and Recreation Commission Minutes of Bandimere Park Discussion dated May 28, 2014 8 Bandimere Park Open House Comments and Responses 9 Public Open House Flyer dated April 22, 2014 10 Park and Recreation Commission Bandimere Park Expansion Work Session Agenda dated March 11, 2014 11. 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'''.11:12-----, a tia ti -� 1111" ‘01411-10. c-) • -• _040�0� J 04 k. iftt llak �\ r '' ' pwJJ 8ugsixg //� /^ ..-- 4'5 C.)0.1 4 El C1— 44 / II Bandimere Park Improvements -Hockey/skating Schematic Cost Estimate Chanhassen, Minnesota 5 13 15 Item qty units est unit cost total Subtotals Site prep Mobilization 5% 1 LS $ 19,000 00 $ 19,000 00 Woodchip construction entrances 1 LS $ 1,500 00 $ 1,500 00 Survey and staking 1 LS $ 2,500 00 $ 2,500 00 Silt fencing 800 LF $ 1 50 $ 1,200 00 subtotal $ 24,200 00 Hockey rink Fine grading for hockey rink 1 LS $ 3,000 00 $ 3,000 00 Flood lights for rinks 1 LS $ 40,000 00 $ 40,000 00 Electrical service cabinet 1 LS $ 10,000 00 $ 10,000 00 Concrete pad for hockey(80x175) 14000 SF $ 12 00 $ 168,000 00 Hockey boards(80 x 175) 1 LS $ 55,000 00 $ 55,000 00 Striping for pickleball 1 LS $ 1,500 00 $ 1,500 00 Bituminous pad for warming house 900 SF $ 4 00 $ 3,600 00 subtotal $ 281,100 00 Lowering skating area Cut/lower grades 3 ft 4444 CY $ 5 00 $ 22,220 00 Extra cost to haul cut off site 4444 CY $ 10 00 $ 44,440 00 subtotal $ 66,660.00 Stormwater Excavation pond 1 150 CY $ 15 00 $ 2,250 00 Excavation pond 2 170 CY $ 15 00 $ 2,550 00 Seeding of ponds 1 LS $ 2,500 00 $ 2,500 00 Erosion Control blanket 320 SY $ 6 00 $ 1,920 00 Irrigation re-use system 1 LS $ 20,000 00 $ 20,000 00 subtotal $ 29,220.00 Construction Total $ 401,180.00 Design and Engineering 8% $ 32,094 40 Contingency 10% $ 40,118 00 PROJECT TOTAL $ 473,392 40 Bandimere Park Improvements- Parking lot,stormwater pond and site landscaping Schematic Cost Estimate Chanhassen,Minnesota 5 13 15 Item qty units est unit cost total Subtotals Site prep Mobilization 5% 1 LS $ 7,000 00 $ 7,000 00 Woodchip construction entrances 1 LS $ 1,500 00 $ 1,500 00 Survey and staking 1 LS $ 2,500 00 $ 2,500 00 Silt fencing 700 LF $ 1 50 $ 1,050 00 subtotal $ 12,050 00 Parking lot Curb and gutter removals 200 LF $ 12 00 $ 2,400 00 Bituminous parking lot 10700 SF $ 4 00 $ 42,800 00 Curb and gutter 670 LF $ 30 00 $ 20,100 00 Striping 1 LS $ 1,200 00 $ 1,200 00 Lighting 2 EA $ 4,500 00 $ 9,000 00 Stormwater piping allowance 1 LS $ 10,000 00 $ 10,000 00 subtotal $ 85,500 00 Stormwater ponds Excavation pond 3 255 CY $ 15 00 $ 3,825 00 Excavation pond 4 170 CY $ 15 00 $ 2,550 00 Seeding of ponds 1 LS $ 2,500 00 $ 2,500 00 Erosion Control blanket 325 SY $ 6 00 $ 1,950 00 subtotal $ 10,825.00 Trails 8ft bitumious trail 400 LF $ 35 00 $ 14,000 00 Curb cut/ped ramp 4 EA $ 1,500 00 $ 6,000 00 subtotal $ 20,000 00 Landscaping Bring in topsoil 68 CY $ 45 00 $ 3,060 00 Seeding and mulch 3700 SY $ 0 50 $ 1,850 00 Prairie Seeding on slopes 4000 SY $ 0 75 $ 3,000 00 Trees 12 EA $ 350 00 $ 4,200 00 $ 12,110.00 Construction Total $ 140,485 00 Design and Engineering 8% $ 11,238 80 Contingency 10% $ 14,048 50 PROJECT TOTAL $ 165,772 30 Bandimere Park Improvements -Shelter Schematic Cost Estimate Chanhassen, Minnesota 5 13 15 Item qty units est unit cost total subtotal Site prep Mobilization 5% 1 LS $ 23,000 00 $ 23,000 00 Woodchip construction entrances 1 LS $ 1,500 00 $ 1,500 00 Survey and staking 1 LS $ 3,000 00 $ 3,000 00 Grading level buildin• area 1 LS $ 5,000 00 $ 5,000 00 Silt fencing 500 LF $ 1 50 $ 750 00 subtotal $ 33,250.00 Trails 8ft bitumious trail 40 LF $ 35 00 $ 1,400 00 subtotal $ 1,400.00 Shelter Move irrigation cabinet 1 LS $ 10,000 00 $ 10,000 00 Drinking Fountain/bottle filler 1 LS $ 3,000 00 $ 3,000 00 Utility hook ups 1 LS $ 10,000 00 $ 10,000 00 Concrete building pad 3000 SF $ 8 00 $ 24,000 00 1 Shelter with 2 restrooms, kitchen 1 LS $ 450,000 00 $ 450,000 00 subtotal $ 497,000 00 Landscaping Raingarden 170 CY $ 15 00 $ 2,550 00 Seeding of raingarden 1 LS $ 3,000 00 $ 3,000 00 Erosion Control blanket 700 SY $ 6.00 $ 4,200 00 Turf seeding and mulch 1600 SY $ 0 50 $ 800 00 Tree 2 EA $ 350 00 $ 700 00 subtotal $ 11,250 00 Construction Total $ 542,900.00 Design and Engineering 8% $ 43,432 00 Contingency 10% $ 54,290 00 PROJECT TOTAL $ 640,622.00 Bandimere Park Improvements - Courts Schematic Cost Estimate Chanhassen, Minnesota 5 13 15 Item qty units est unit cost total subtotal Site prep Mobilization 5% 1 LS $ 11,000 00 $ 11,000 00 Woodchip construction entrances 1 LS $ 1,500 00 $ 1,500 00 Survey and staking 1 LS $ 3,000 00 $ 3,000 00 Silt fencing 700 LF $ 1 50 $ 1,050 00 subtotal $ 16,550 00 Trails 8ft bitumious trail 240 LF $ 25 00 $ 6,000 00 subtotal $ 6,000 00 Courts Chainlink Fence-8 FT all around-black vinyl 456 LF $ 80 00 $ 36,480 00 Fine grading for court 1 LS $ 2,500 00 $ 2,500 00 Electrical service cabinet 1 LS $ 10,000 00 $ 10,000 00 Lights 1 LS $ 50,000 00 $ 50,000 00 Bituninous court 13000 SF $ 4 00 $ 52,000 00 Backboard and nets 1 LS $ 2,000 00 $ 2,000 00 Court surfacing 1 LS $ 12,000 00 $ 12,000 00 subtotal $ 164,980 00 Landscaping Turf seeding and mulch 1600 SY $ 0 50 $ 800 00 Erosion Control Blanket 600 SY $ 5 00 $ 3,000.00 Tree 4 EA $ 350 00 $ 1,400 00 subtotal' $ 5,200 00 Construction Total $ 192,730 00 Design and Engineering 8% $ 15,418 40 Contingency 10% $ 19,273 00 PROJECT TOTAL j $ 227,421.40 Projects By Funding Source 2015 thru 2019 Department Park&Trail Improvements City of Chanhassen, MN Contact Todd Hoffman Project# PK&T-122 Type Improvement Useful Life Project Name Hockey Rink-Bandimere Community Park Category Park Account#1 410 0000-4705 Account#3 Priority n/a Account#2 Account#4 Description Total Project Cost $460,000 Installation of an outdoor hockey rink,dasher boards,lights and associated improvements at Bandimere Community Park Justification This rink will fill a recreation service area that currently has limited access to public winter recreation facilities Expenditures 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 Total Construction 460,000 460,000 Total 460,000 460,000 Funding Sources 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 Total Park Dedication Fund 460 000 460,000 Total 460,000 460,000 Budget Impact/Other An increase of$5,000 per year in operation and maintenance costs Projects By Funding Source 2015 thru 2019 Department Park&Trail Improvements City of Chanhassen, MN Contact Todd Hoffman Project# PK&T-123 type Improvement Useful Life Project Name Bandimere Community Park Picnic Shelter Category Park Account#1 Account#3 Priority n/a Account#2 Account#4 Description Total Project Cost• $500,000 Construction of a large picnic shelter at Bandimere Community Park near the playground Justification Bandimere Park is the City's only community park without a shelter Lake Ann Park,Lake Susan Park and the Chanhassen Recreation Center all have picnic shelters Expenditures 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 Total Construction 500 000 500,000 Total 500,000 500,000 Funding Sources 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 Total Park Dedication Fund 500,000 500,000 Total 500,000 500,000 Budget Impact/Other An increase of$2,000 per year in operation and maintenance costs IOW CITY OF MEMORANDUM CHANHA SE TO: Todd Gerhardt, City Manager 7700 Market Boulevard PO Box 147 FROM: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director Chanhassen,MN 55317 DATE: June 23, 2014 Administration Phone 952 2271100 SUBJ: Discussion of Bandimere Community Park Expansion Master Plan Fax 952 2271110 Building Inspections BACKGROUND Phone 952 2271180 Fax 952 2271190 The original 32 acres of property for Bandimere Community Park was acquired Engineering in 1988 after a park improvement referendum in which two of four questions Phone 952 2271160 passed Nine years later, another park referendum was approved authorizing the Fax 952 2271170 initial construction of the park. Most recently, another 4.5 acres has been added Finance to the park along with a new main park entrance being constructed Phone 952 2271140 Fax 952 2271110 DISCUSSION Park&Recreation At the time when Bandimere Community Park was first developed, a well- Phone 952 2271120 rounded park master plan including tennis courts, hockey/ice skating facilities, Fax 952 2271110 and ball fields was proposed. However, an overriding desire to build the Recreation Center maximum number of ball fields that the site could accommodate pushed aside 2310 Coulter Boulevard the desires to include skating,hockey and tennis in the original construction Phone 952 2271400 plan. With the most recent acquisition of the final pieces of open land adjacent Fax 952 2271404 to the park,the community can again realize the opportunity to fulfill the desires for expanded park attractions. This current master planning process is intended Planning& to establish the blueprint for final improvements to the park. Once the master Natural Resources Phoonee952 2271130 plana is established and d bythe CityCouncil, discussions centered on approved Fax 952 2271110 establishing a phased construction timeline and budgeting requirements can proceed. Public Works 7901 Park Place Master Planning Process Timeline Phone 952 2271300 2012 The City acquires two parcels adjacent to Bandimere Fax 952 2271310 Commumty Park from Mark and Kari Nettesheim Senior Center totaling 4 5 acres Phone 952 2271125 2013 Planning dollars are allocated in the 2014 Park and Trail Fax 952 2271110 Acquisition and Development CIP to establish a Bandimere Park expansion plan. Website January 2014 The City retains WSB and Associates to assist with the www ci chanhassen mn us expansion master planning Chanhassen is a Community for Life-Providing for Today and Planning for Tomorrow Mr Todd Gerhardt June 23, 2014 Page 2 March 2014 The Park and Recreation Commission holds a Bandimere Park Expansion work session with Rich Koechlein of WSB and Associates and city staff March/April 2014 WSB and Associates creates a concept park expansion plan based on Park and Recreation Commission and staff input April 2014 Park and Recreation Commission hosts public open house to discuss planning for Bandimere Community Park Expansion. May 2014 The Park and Recreation Commission conducts a final review of the proposed expansion plan, hears additional public comments and makes formal recommendation to City Council to accept proposed expansion plans PARK & RECREATION COMMISSION ACTION On May 28, 2014 Commissioner Steve Scharfenberg moved, and Commissioner Rick Echternacht seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommends that the City Council approve the proposed Bandimere Community Park master site plan dated May 12, 2014 as amended Amendments include changing the tennis courts to sport courts, deleting the concession stand and replacing it with a shelter/restrooms, and directing the Park and Recreation Commission to begin developing a phased construction timeline and Capital Improvement Program (CIP) for the project. All Commissioners voted in favor, except for Chair Kelly who opposed, and the motion carried on a vote of 6 to 1 Commissioner Kelly voted no because he is opposed to a splash pad and tennis court and, based on his opinion of City Council desires, did not support the recommendation that his fellow commissioners made to the City Council NEXT STEPS The Park and Recreation Commission and staff will be seeking City Council approval of the proposed Bandimere Park Expansion Master Plan at a future meeting Authorization of a master plan will permit the Park and Recreation Commission to begin developing a phased construction timeline and Capital Improvement Program (CIP) for the project ATTACHMENTS 1 WSB Report dated May 12, 2014, Bandimere Park Expansion Master Planning 2 Power Point Presentation, Proposed Bandimere Park Expansion Plans and Community Ball Field Planning h\bandimere expansion\city council master plan report.docx �i _ - __:__ : .__ r., , ...,....,,,„,_, .....„ .. , ,. .40 ,441101111011 Z .\\,. - " `"t____, � / -ilA ,. .E , . \, - 1 .,_-_il , , , _ _:.: ,f 8 ,_ _ . , 1_________ \ 1111 _0 \ , 1 , \ . . , 1,, tt c . \ . , ., . ' , , ; -..1,: i, . , 70 1 i-toe7:14. .,,,, i 4 O -...J\ , f.4 : - / 0 I ' i 1 _-_._ //( • SI.-_„___ ,,,„ ' . 1 /14-g:::: '.'' 4'• iti: C i 721 • i fi ; /..- ,/, Li. s,o( 1-,,--__17;_____..:::::„. ( _ . .- ( r //C/1/i M . \ \_50,_.--.?-- L-74°-- \''''\?, ,,,:,-c-,=-4—.- .73:1-------=-Aa,t"-V7-..\--7,;\\\\\\\e'* • 0 CO ,II -11 \� . 17 TIN 0 \N.,\***S- w CD II / 110 • '�� ! it:l -` =� Y D t 1, won ,imitz 0 CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION JUNE 23,2014 Mayor Furlong called the work session to order at 5:30 p.m COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT: Mayor Furlong,Councilwoman Ernst,Councilwoman Tjornhom, and Councilman McDonald COUNCIL MEMBERS ABSENT: Councilman Laufenburger STAFF PRESENT: Todd Gerhardt,Laurie Hokkanen,Paul Oehme,Todd Hoffman, Greg Sticha, and Kate Aanenson PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Chairman Cole Kelly, Jim Boettcher, and Rick Echternacht DISCUSS BANDIMERE COMMUNITY PARK EXPANSION MASTER PLAN. Todd Hoffman provided background information on the park planning process in the city with Lake Ann, Lake Susan, and City Center Park noting that Bandimere Park is probably the last community park to be developed in Chanhassen Mayor Furlong asked for a breakdown of park and preserve area for Lake Susan Park Todd Hoffman explained how the west parking lot was acquired usmg MnDOT funds and explained the current and proposed improvements to both the east and west parking lots He noted that feedback from the community was generally positive with expressed concerns with lighting, screening and runoff Rich Koechlem with WSB and Associates,who prepared the Bandimere Park Master Plan reviewed the lighting plan, improvements to the existing playground area with installation of a splash pad, playground, shelter and restrooms,the location of a hockey rink with warming house, sport court area and issues associated with the Magellan pipeline that runs through the property Councilwoman Ernst asked about the location of the holding pond that neighbors were concerned with Rich Koechlem reviewed the overall estimated budget numbers,noting that lumping projects together would result in prices going down Todd Hoffman explained that the council was not approving the budget today but using those numbers as the master park plan moves forward. Councilwoman Ernst asked if any of the proposed numbers were in the current CIP and expressed concern with the large dollar amount being proposed She asked if a scaled down version was possible Todd Hoffman reviewed how park dedication dollars will work into the future as the remainder of the city develops Councilwoman Ernst asked what was involved with a referendum option Todd Gerhardt explained that staff is looking for the City Council's vision on the final build-out of Bandimere Park Councilman McDonald stated that overall he likes the plan but would like to see a phasing plan and asked that lighting near the neighborhood be revisited Todd Gerhardt asked if consideration had been given to the splash pad interfering with the ballfields Councilwoman Tjornhom thanked the Park and Recreation Commission for the work they've done on the future vision of the park but expressed concern with the overall cost,hockey usage, and suggested moving the splash pad to Lake Susan with the picnic shelter and making Bandimere Park more of a ballfield park Mayor Furlong asked about the difference between tennis and sport courts Chairman Kelly explained his opposition in general to tennis courts and stated he would prefer to see that area left as open space Mayor Furlong suggested pickleball could go in the hockey rink area and asked for clarification of the Park and Recreation Commission's motion regarding the picnic shelter and restrooms He agreed that a concession stand was not necessary He also discussed issues involved with having a water element i e splash pad and that two buildings(warming house and picnic shelter)was too much for this park,(like putting 3 pounds in a 2 pound box) Councilwoman Tjornhom asked if shade trees had been considered Mayor Furlong asked about the life span of the playground equipment and discussed that phasing of City Council Work Session—June 23,2014 lighting should be on a supply and demand fashion. Todd Hoffman stated staff had clear direction from City Council and would brmg something back in the future. 2015 BUDGET: DISCUSS BUDGET EXPECTATIONS AND REVIEW EFFICIENCIES. Greg Sticha reviewed numbers associated with new construction,market values,police contract,health care costs,and PERA increases. He reviewed the budget calendar and asked for feedback on service level concerns that the council would like staff to investigate further Councilwoman Ernst asked that the options presented by staff be more realistic Councilman McDonald asked to see long term costs associated with cutting services Todd Gerhardt explained that the basic breakdown costs for police, street lighting,personnel and street maintenance make up the majority of the general fund Mayor Furlong asked if any services were going out for bid. Greg Sticha explained that banking will be bid next year and that audit prices have remained the same Laurie Hokkanen explained that insurance quotes are bid every year The work session was recessed at 7:00 p.m. It was reconvened at 8:00 p.m. UPDATE ON LAKE DRIVE AND DAKOTA AVENUE TRAFFIC STUDY;AND CONTINUE DISCUSSION OF CONTRUCTION PROJECT UPDATES. Paul Oehme provided updates on the Kiowa Trail and Minnewashta Shores street construction projects, noting they were running 1 to 2 weeks behind schedule due to weather. The Highway 101 project from Lyman Boulevard to Pioneer Trail was closed due to weather. He discussed the ground breaking ceremony being held on Tuesday,June 24th for the Highway 101/County Road 61 reconstruction project that is scheduled through to a mid-July start date Mayor Furlong asked if the current flooding conditions have been addressed with the proposed design for the roundabout and stormwater ponding Paul Oehme explained that the bridge was designed taking into account the 1965 flood elevation numbers. In discussing the Highway 101 project from Pioneer Trail to Flying Cloud Drive,Paul Oehme explained that staff is working to secure funding for environmental documentation and preliminary design and asking MnDOT for assistance to provide in-kind services for that study Councilman McDonald asked about the impact on the log cabin/strawberry farm that will be impacted by this project Paul Oehme explained that the building was not on the National Historical Registry as of yet. Todd Gerhardt asked staff to explain the application process with Carver County and MnDOT. In discussing the Dakota Avenue/Lake Drive traffic study,Paul Oehme explained the work done by staff to complete the study,and remove trees and shrubs In reviewing the crash history of the intersection staff explained that no safety improvements are warranted at this time Councilman McDonald asked about installing a 4 way stop Paul Oehme explained that data does not warrant installation of a 4 way stop or signal noting operation of service would back up onto Highway 5. He explained that staff evaluated a 3 way stop which also does not meet warrants Mayor Furlong suggested putting a stop sign out of the neighborhood on Dakota Avenue might help Councilman McDonald suggested the need to paint lines to better define travel lanes Paul Oehme reviewed alternatives for a full sized roundabout,mini sized roundabout and extension of the median as being the best alternative Mayor Furlong asked about the cost of extending a sidewalk from the neighborhood and the possibility of the neighborhood contributing to that cost. Paul Oehme explained that the next step is to meet with the neighborhood to share the results of the study before bringing it back to the City Council Mayor Furlong adjourned the work session at 8:45 p.m. Submitted by Todd Gerhardt City Manager Prepared by Nann Opheim 2 CITY OF MEMORANDUM CHANHASSEN TO: Park and Recreation Commission 7700 Market Boulevard PO Box 147 FROM: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director Chanhassen MN 55317 DATE: May 28, 2014 Administration Phone 952 2271100 SUBJ: Recommendation Concerning Proposed Bandimere Community Fax 952 2271110 Park Preliminary Site Plan Building Inspections Phone 952 2271180 Fax 952 2271190 PROPOSED MOTION: Engineering "The Park and Recreation Commission recommends that the City Council approve Phone 952 2271160 Fax 952 2271170 the proposed Bandimere Community Park master site plan dated May 12, 2014 and directs the Park and Recreation Commission to begm developing a phased Finance Phone 952 2271140 construction timeline and Capital Improvement Program(CIP) for the project" Fax 952 2271110 Approval requires a simple majority vote of Park&Recreation Commission Park&Recreation Phone 952 2271120 BACKGROUND Fax 952 2271110 Recreation Center The original 32 acres of property for Bandimere Community Park were acquired 2310 Coulter Boulevard in 1988 after a park improvement referendum in which two of four questions Phone 952 2271400 passed Nine years later, another park referendum was approved authorizing the Fax 952 2271404 initial construction of the park. Most recently, another 4.5 acres of land has been added to the park along with a new main park entrance being constructed Planning& Natural Resources Phone 952 2271130 DISCUSSION Fax 952 2271110 At the time when Bandimere Community Park was first developed, a well- Public Works rounded park master plan, including tennis courts, hockey/ice skating facilities, 7901 Park Place and ball fields,was proposed. However, an overriding desire to build the Phone 952 2271300 maximum number of ball fields that the site could accommodate pushed aside Fax 952 2271310 the desires to include skating,hockey and tennis in the original construction Senior Center plan. With the most recent acquisition of the final pieces of open land adjacent Phone 952 2271125 to the park,the community can again realize the opportunity to fulfill the desires Fax 952 2271110 for expanded park attractions. This current master planning process is intended to establish the blueprint for final improvements to the park Once the "Master Website Plan" is established and approved by the City Council, discussions centered on www ci chanhassen mn us establishing a phased construction timeline and budgeting requirements can proceed Chanhassen is a Community for Life-Providing for Today and Planning for Tomorrow Park&Recreation Commission May 28, 2014 Page 2 RECOMMENDATION It is recommended that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend that the City Council approve the proposed Bandimere Community Park preliminary site plan dated May 12, 2014 and directs the Park and Recreation Commission to begin developing a phased construction timeline and Capital Improvement Program (CIP) ATTACHMENTS 1. WSB Report dated May 12, 2014—Bandimere Park Expansion Mater Planning and Exhibits h\bandimere expansion\prc memo 5-28-14 docx CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING MAY 28,2014 Chairman Kelly called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT: Cole Kelly, Steve Scharfenberg,Elise Ryan, Brent Carron, Rick Echternacht, Luke Thunberg, and Jacob Stolar MEMBERS ABSENT: Jim Boettcher and Tyler Kobilarcsik STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director; Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Superintendent, Mitch Johnson,Recreation Supervisor, Ben Domjahn, Park Intern, and Adam Beers,Park Superintendent PUBLIC PRESENT: Dan Maus 2610 Fieldstone Drive, Victoria Matt Mason 9198 Springfield Drive APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Kelly Anybody have anything to add to the agenda? Carron: Can we just get an update on the staircase schedule? Hoffman Absolutely Kelly Put it under Reports, number 5 Anything else to be added PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: Hoffman Start of the concert series June 1211' Johnson. June 12th So June 12th and there should be a magnet on everybody's chair,the line-up for this year. Scharfenberg Red Birds baseball game on Friday night against the Chaska Cubs and we're doing a program with Bountiful Baskets so if you come to the game bring non-perishable items or monetary donations for that game against our next door neighbors. Kelly: Any extra pens? This is dying. Hoffman Yes,absolutely. And overall I think the series is tied Scharfenberg: I think so Hoffman. Yeah Cubs and Storm. Kelly Yeah the opening game was fun last night and we had a new announcer for the Red Birds last night and he did a fantastic job Park and Recreation Commission—May 28, 2014 Dan Maus It's$10,000,yes Ryan Okay Okay. Thank you. Dan Maus You're welcome Kelly Moving forward with the motion and the second Scharfenberg moved,Echternacht seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommends that the City Council accept the donation and installation of chain-link dugouts on Lake Ann Park Field#5 from the Chanhassen Athletic Association(CAA)Baseball and Softball Board of Directors. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 7 to 0. RECOMMENDATION CONCERNING PROPOSED BANDIMERE COMMUNITY PARK PRELIMINARY SITE PLAN. Kelly Todd would you like to speak on it? Hoffman. I will. I'll re-introduce Rich Koechlein He's with WSB He'll be coming up a little bit later to go through in detail what the different concept plans are A little background. Bandimere, 32 acres of property First acquired in 1988 so the planning for this park goes back a good amount of time within our community 9 years later after the original acquisition another park referendum was approved authorizing initial construction of the park and so the initial construction was everything that you see here in existing conditions so the baseball/softball fields The three soccer fields The original land acquisition,the northern border was right across this fence line This was the existing Bandimere Heights Park and then the final acquisition at that time was some park dedication from the Lundgren development to the north in the Springfield So when this was assembled in the first park construction go around there was 3 different sets of property in play that were combined to develop the first Bandimere Community Park At that time there was this similar type of process. Neighborhood meetings Community meetings. Park board meetmgs to say what should go in the park There was a well rounded master plan including tennis, hockey, skating,ballfields. All those things were proposed as a part of the community park back then However at the time an overriding desire to build the maximum number of ballfields that the site could accommodate pushed aside the desires to include skating,hockey,tennis and any other improvements in the original construction with the exception of the playgrounds With the most recent acquisition of the final pieces of open land adjacent to the park the community can realize the option or get to fill the desire for expanding park attractions so I think for the commission,for the community, for the residents, it's just a great opportunity to be able to acquire these two additional properties to the north What were known as the Nettesheim properties The two houses So these two,both properties were approximately 2.5 acres and we had courted the Nettesheim's for quite some time and they were very interested in working with the City to make that development of the acquisition and expansion of the park a reality. But then the economy kind of got in the way when it was so red hot for a while. Their first offer was$1 2 million to the City for those two properties With the decline in the market our final acquisition was$640,000 for those two properties so it just,just about half of what the original asking price was so, and they were happy with that at that time So that was a benefit If the properties would have sold at the peak of the market the City,the community would not be in this position of talking about this expansion of the park The current master plan and process intend to establish the blueprint for the final improvements to the park Once that blueprint or final master plan is established and approved by the City Council, discussions centered on establishing a phase construction timeline and how the budgeting will take place can proceed We'll talk a little bit tonight. When Rich gets to the kind of the final master plan that you had worked on at the open house. Since that time the pipeline,Magellan Pipeline representatives have been back in contact with us. They want to raise that pipeline if we fill it. So the pipeline is right across 6 Park and Recreation Commission—May 28, 2014 this region of the new expansion. If we fill it to this extent they want to raise that pipeline and they want to charge us$400,000 to do that so we don't think that's a good investment of those dollars and so we'll present,Rich will present to you tonight, it actually,the pipeline lays in a nice spot in the park where you can actually create then a dip or a low spot in that parkland It modifies the plan slightly but we'll go through that at the time. Staff's representation to you is that we think it's a better investment to take that $400,000 and build the first park improvements. Not spend it on raising the pipelme and modify the gradmg plan on the site so Right now we're in additional conversation with Magellan to see how much they will allow us to put so we can modify the grading plan so m one area will they allow us to put a foot In another area will they allow us to put 2 feet or 3 feet but they wanted to raise this to about 4 or 5 feet below the finished if we put the extent of the soil that we originally proposed m there So we're, staff's not interested in making a recommendation to the commission that you invest those kind of dollars We would rather modify the plan so we'll talk about that when we get to that point. We'll have time for questions and then we,we'd like to see a recommendation come out of the commission tonight for the City Council but we will wait until we get those final answers, and if you're not comfortable with that modified plan we can wait until we get the fmal answers before you make your recommendation as well so,with that I'll let Rich walk through the plans and then we'll answer questions Rich Koechlem I'll dust go through,kind of review what we've talked about up to now. One of the concepts we came up with was a splash pad concession area in the center of the park Taking the existing, or renovating the existing playgrounds and adding a splash pad component as well as a shelter,restroom, and concession building. This would accommodate concessions for the ballfields as well as another use that currently isn't happening in Chanhassen. Another element we'll be proposing is adding lighting on different fields within the park This could be phased in different elements but basically lighting soccer field 1 as well as soccer field 2 and 3 together and then the ballfields as one unit And then in conjunction you'd be lighting the parkmg lots This affords longer play times or more use of the fields Then we'll get to the hockey rinks So as Todd stated the gas line cuts through,I'll just so you can see it a little better but cuts through the middle of the area. We were able to slope down along these areas to accommodate the pipelme and not having to fill on top of it. We lost a couple parking spaces from the earlier concept last month but I think we may be able to get it back with a little more finessing of the contours and truly figurmg out what Magellan can allow us We were able to accommodate a free skating rink We rotated the warming house to allow for a little more space in there We have the hockey rink the same place we did. We're trying to screen that from the neighbors during the winter You know a lot of evergreens. All these,the skating and the tennis courts would be lit on the tennis courts. They've always been in this area near the new entry And agam the warming house with restrooms that would accommodate the hockey rinks and free skating,and also the option of turning the hockey rink into a dog park during the summer also Currently we're calling for the hockey rink just to be aggregate during the summer so,because the grass never really recovers in the hockey rinks so Scharfenberg And when you say aggregate,what do you mean by that9 Rich Koechlem We call it crushed aggregate but it would just be a stone material that compresses so you'd still have a few weeds coming up but in general you could kind of reduce the amount of weeds and maintenance overall so. Hoffman You have the original overall master plan in your packet and you can actually show that I just want to show them the comparison So from the original,prior to the pipeline news to now, so that's the change. Rich Koechlem• So we dust had a little more,the free skating came over a little closer to the parking lot and then I had rotated the warming house since this option to give us a little more free skating room It's a little more compressed in there now 7 Park and Recreation Commission—May 28, 2014 Ryan: So will the free skate look similar to what's here at City Center is? Rich Koechlein Yeah Scharfenberg. And what is this blue item in the picture there Rich Koechlein With the parking lot we'd be required to provide some type of stormwater retention or treatment for runoff from the parking lot Carron So the elevation in that swale is basically only a 4 feet difference between proposed elevation, okay so it's not much What is the Magellan setback for hard surfaces 50 feet on each side? Rich Koechlein I think it's 50 feet overall Carron 50 feet,25 each side Rich Koechlein: I'm not Hoffman. We built, back in the 80's and 90's we built a parking lot over the top of it so it depends on Carron Should have kept it there. Hoffman: Yeah. It depends on their Carron Okay, so we've got plenty of space basically. Hoffman Yeah If the pipeline had to fall somewhere it fell on a good spot based on this expansion Carron: Right. Kelly So if we change the tennis courts to another parking lot would we have to have another pond or would that pond suffice? Rich Koechlein. We'd probably need another pond There is a small area here that's kind of depressed that kind of happened out of the Highway 101 project but I don't think that's suffice to, for that much parking Hoffman One of the things I think the commission should consider is, you know should if be additional parking or should you modify that to be tennis, basketball,pickleball Make it more of a universal type use for that. I don't think labeling it tennis, based on the community input that we've been receiving labeling it dust pure tennis courts is probably, if you want a court surface you should more likely be multi- purpose Kelly If we did put in parking there how many spots could we fit? Would you guess. Rich Koechlein. I'd guess probably 50 You could easily get a couple rows You'd probably want to access it off of the southern road Kelly Okay 8 Park and Recreation Commission—May 28, 2014 Carron. Since we're talking about parking,the proposed parking for this park and the size of the park that we have is that, does that work? Does that fit the number of stalls versus the uses of the fields? Are we kind of short or are we good with what you're kind of figuring the attendance would be at any certain point? Hoffman: You want to show the. Rich Koechlem I think coming out of the open house there defmitely was a need for this. That's the opinion we got from the residents that there was a need for as much parking as possible Scharfenberg: Brent the problem that you have is that no one wants to park down by the ballfield and have to hoof it all the way over to those two other soccer fields so the more that you can get people to park closer to those two fields that's I think the need Canon. I'm thinking just off the top of my head we might have more need than the space provided If we're going to keep Class 5 aggregate on the hockey rink during the summer,could that be an additional parking spot as well'? Would that be allowed'? Hoffman You could make it an overflow,yeah You would have to designate it and design it to do that Carron. I'm just thinking tournaments and you know again lighted ballfields and people coming and people going at the same time Scharfenberg Brent you do know that on that,just to the north of the splash pad there,that's parking as well Canon: Yep. Scharfenberg Okay Carron Yep Hoffman: So Lake Ann,Bandimere. To meet the peak demand you would have to have many more stalls but to meet the average demand then,that's always the challenge of how much more You know they park along the road during over,when they're over peak and at Lake Ann they park on the grass in some areas But in many cases like Commissioner Scharfenberg described,at Lake Ann they'll overflow one lot and 3 lots on the other side will be empty and so it's a little bit of a challenge as well. In Lake Ann with the transition of the entrance from more southerly to more north it's exacerbating the situation that we talk about where there's more of the parking to the south and they just don't get there and so,you know you can do that through signage or through, if the splash pad did go in you just would not allow any splash pad parking to the north They'd all have to park in the south lot You would just designate that as splash pad parking and then there would be some coordination that would have to go on with the hours of the games when peak levels are at that type of facility. You would have to start to modify programming to meet reasonable parking Parking accommodations Matt Mason Hey, can I make a comment? I don't know what the forum is here Hoffman Sure. Matt Mason But I live at 9198 Springfield which is right on 9 Park and Recreation Commission—May 28,2014 Hoffman: You should come forward,yep Matt Mason I've lived there for about 15 years Hoffman. Name and address please. Matt Mason Matt Mason, 9198 Springfield I'm right here I'm right here Rarely have I seen parking an issue,just so you know I mean we have tournaments out there all the time Every now and then I'll get some cars in front of my house but the parking seems to work pretty well I don't know how much your splash pas is going to add to the volume of the park but we've had full tournaments. There's never people up on the grass. There's never,it always seems to, it always seems to work so just thought I'd add I've got a few other questions but I don't know if now is the time I just thought I'd interject since you were talking about parking Kelly If you've got some questions go ahead. We can. Matt Mason: Yeah I mean really the main reason I'm here is with me living where I showed you,you'll see that my house has no, let's do this again Right here There's no trees or anything right in that area and I'm a little concerned that the lights are just going to shine right into my back porch and if there's any way that I could ask to have some evergreens like you've talked about over by the tennis courts and ice rinks put up there on the berm,I'd really appreciate that. I mean other than that I think this is a great plan It's a great park. I'm out there twice a day with my dog It's a wonderful area But if we're going to really ramp it up,I hope we're also going to ramp up some people to help collect because I pick up garbage every morning It's no big deal You walk around Grab water bottles Whatever The disc golf course has been great but it's a lot of younger kids Even though there's trash cans they just throw stuff everywhere so you know, a little,I think a little more supervision would be great. And then the whole splash pad thing,I haven't been to any of the meetings but boy that seems expensive $1 6 mil Do we know the usage there because you guys know Lake Riley is right here Right,I mean and Lake Riley there's never anybody at that beach It's empty so just for a,I mean I'm sure you guys have done your due diligence Just do we know that it's going to be used for what we're investing? Scharfenberg And I think Matt to answer your question, it was just,when we had kind of as a meeting kind of a,if we could build it and could do something like that,you know because we've had conversations with the public about some sort of water feature in the city You know people would like a pool and we know we're not going to probably ever do a pool Matt Mason Yeah Scharfenberg And so this was kind of something well if we could do that, is that something that potentially and this park was kind of,could suit that feature if we could do it It's not something potentially that would ever come but Matt Mason That was the only head scratcher I had Steve. I mean you and I know each other Everything else makes perfect sense. We all knew the lighting was coming in I mean I don't know how much usage it's going to get. Those fields are empty quite a bit right now but I'm sure we're planning growth and all of that going forward so,but really my only request for the group here is if I could get some consideration for some trees I'd be a happy clam And anything I can do to help,let me know so thank you for your time Scharfenberg Thank you Matt. 10 Park and Recreation Commission—May 28,2014 Kelly Thanks Matt Hoffman: Numbers? Dollars? Rich Koechlem Oh Hoffman Should we talk about that? Rich Koechlein: Roughly I'll go through the different elements and these are,they can be broken up even further but lighting the soccer fields in the north, Soccer Field 2 and 3 is about$500,000 Lighting this field is about$300,000 Lighting the ballfields The three ballfields is about$600,000 and the more you combine the lighting the more it comes down. The more you isolate,just doing one field the more it goes up so lighting the parking,the lower,the southern parking lot is about$65,000 Lighting the middle,the central parking lot is about$50,000 Then the splash pad element,which was mentioned is about$1 65 million. The hockey rink and warming house which is also lit I don't know if I mentioned that earlier, is about$860,000 with the parking lot The tennis courts is about$265,000. Scharfenberg Rich with the splash pad, shelter, concession,playground renovation, is that all incorporated in the$1.65? Rich Koechlem: Yes Scharfenberg Is there anyway to break that out? Rich Koechlein. Yes. I mean we could, it could definitely be phased I don't have the Scharfenberg And I'm not talking phased I'm just talking about what are the dollars? Do we know the dollars to do a shelter so that we can Hoffman Get the breakout. Scharfenberg• Get the breakout of what those figures are Rich Koechlem I'm not sure I brought it with me. The concession building is about,we're estimating about$500,000 The splash pad is roughly$450,000 You know and then we get into surveying, staking, earthwork,utilities which is another you know$25,000 in those We threw in some money because of the grade kind of drops away there and anticipating the need,potential need for a retaining wall and you know we put in$8,500 for that and then railings to go on top of that at$17,000. Paving in general is about$60,000 Playground's about$75,000. Rubber surfacing for the playground is $71,000 You know and then we new in benches, bike racks,trash cans,picnic tables and then landscaping So we tried to cover it all Asphalt paths too is about$18,000 so Scharfenberg: And on the playground are we talking about adding, keeping what we have there currently or taking that out9 Rich Koechlem Taking it out. Scharfenberg: Okay. Rich Koechlem It's life span is kind of coming to an end I think is the general consensus 11 Park and Recreation Commission—May 28, 2014 Scharfenberg Okay Hoffman At least at the time you got around to building this kind of,the first one that was put in would start to be at it's upper age limit. Rich can you talk about,what other communities are you working in this year with splash pads? A few right9 Rich Koechlem Yeah,down in Rosemount we're doing a splash pad and that's where we got the numbers from A similar sized splash pad in their,I think it's their central park in Rosemount I think we did one,was it Coon Rapids or I'm not sure if we've done one. Hoffman Columbia Heights or Coon Rapids What's going on is municipal pools are on their way out largely and people are either replacing them or doing a,building a splash pad as a replacement What this final expansion is going to do for Bandimere Park is, it's going to create somewhat of a Lake Ann Park in our southern reaches for that type of a community so a water feature there really would be the last element to add to that kind of a park facility And it would be something that I think the young families that are here and continue to move here would really appreciate as far as a recreation amenity and attraction m the summer Certainly something we don't have Kelly. Going back to the lights,you said if-you,now with these prices are they, is that considering doing the lights independent of the other ones9 Rich Koechlem Yes so potentially Kelly Because you said if you do them together,like if we're doing the lighted soccer field for$305,000 and at the same time we decide to do the parking lot just south of it,that's $65,000 What kind of savings are we looking at? Rich Koechlem I'd guess 10 to 15 percent It's hard to really judge because just bringing in the power for everything is about$40,000 so do you spread it out over your estimate or do you put it in one thing I tried to spread it out so potentially you know if you just lit the soccer field it could be a little more but generally they would all come down I would guess 10 to 15 percent the more you lump together Carron. And these figures are all in today's dollars, correct? Rich Koechlem Yes Carron: What has been the increase? Do you have the figure on that going forward each year or what the increase of this proposed estimate could be9 Rich Koechlem I don't necessarily I would guess,I mean. Canon. Like a 5%or? Rich Koechlem Yeah this year has been tricky because construction's been really good and especially with the fighting we've found that it's increased substantially in the last year. The other elements,just because construction's been strong this year,we're finding an increase of 10 plus percent but that's Carron: It's because there's Rich Koechlem You know the last couple years have been really thin. 12 Park and Recreation Commission—May 28, 2014 Hoffman Good Rich Koechlem• Yeah Well Carron A thin market Hoffman: Good for the owner Rich Koechlem Yeah So this year's increased a lot and potentially next year it could increase a lot too the way things are going but it should level off here. I don't anticipate you're gong to be doing all this next year so,we tried to you know be conservative and make sure you aren't you know,trying to do something for$300,000 that really costs $500,000 Carron Sure,okay Thanks Echternacht I would think that as soon as we either did the Soccer Field#1 or we put the splash pad or the hockey rink we would have to have parking lot lights included at the same time . bring the public back to either the ballfields or to Soccer Field 1 park on both areas If you have your hockey rink you want those lights on and if you use the splash pad you'd probably want them on so you'd probably be looking at doing that early on Hoffman. And I'd really encourage the commission though,these numbers are going to age no matter what and so I'd really encourage you to look at an overall master plan. What kind of facilities do you want to see? Do you want to recommend to the council and then see if they agree with that plan and then start your budgeting for individual phased components after that To Mr Mason's point we certainly wouldn't be lighting Soccer Fields 2 and 3 first We'd light 1 and wait til that growth occurs,if it does occur in the community until you go onto 2 and 3 The other fields are different in their use and so agam staff would recommend you light all three at one time and bring on parking lot lighting. Without parking lot lighting, once your sport lights go off it gets awfully dark for people to exit the park so we experienced it at Lake Ann and we just don't recommend we do it again here at Bandimere Ryan So for the purpose of tonight's discussion and recommendation,do we need to be specific when we talk about this plan, instead of calling them tennis courts, should we say multi-sport court? Hoffman: Absolutely Ryan And change those,okay. Hoffman. Absolutely Your intent should be as clear as it can be moving forward to the council Ryan And when we talk soccer fields,do we need to say that they can also be, lines can be put in for lacrosse with that sport growing. Do we need too be specific that they can be multi-sport fields? Or are soccer fields just be called soccer fields or should they be called soccer and lacrosse. Hoffman. It's kind of a generic term I don't know Jerry if you want to comment on that Ruegemer You know I mean they're the appropriate size I think size wise they can be lined really any way we can so I don't if it makes that much difference 13 Park and Recreation Commission—May 28, 2014 Ryan I think it was brought up in our meeting with council that they wanted to see if they would maybe be available for lacrosse as well with that sport growing so I don't know if we want to somehow reference that as well. Kelly So Todd why are we trying to put together a master plan when we kind of haven't between us figured it out and I think you know it falls in well within our CIP discussion. I mean it's a perfect time to be kind of putting a master plan. I kind of feel like if we pass a, some kind of proposal to the City Council now that we're kind of saying well,we're just kind of throwing darts on a board to see what will stick and see what they throw back at us and they kind of threw at us at our meeting that they want more specifics on why we're domg what and what makes sense money wise versus something else so I personally have trouble just sending a recommendation saying here's our master plan because I'm not sure I'm in agreement with it Whether I am or not,I'm not sure the commission is and they may be but I think we need to hash out more. You know does this make sense and what's it going to take to spend a million six on a splash pad if that ever happens and what's the City Council response and I kind of know that already. You know just from discussions that they've asked the questions they've asked so I'm leery at throwing a big plan where they're going to say,no you know. We throw a big plan with everything in them,they're going well this doesn't make sense. Weren't they paying attention m our Joint meetmg? We wanted more specifics We want to know the cost advantage to doing one thing versus the other and we want a feeling from the community on where we're going from here and I don't think we're ready to give that to the City Council is my personal feeling And again weigh in,maybe you guys are and then that's fine. Thunberg Just to follow,is there a need to have a recommendation now versus later this summer or something as we're doing different discussions for our CIPS Hoffman Timing's not specific I don't foresee that you'll see a Phase I development until 2015 at the earliest, if that happens and it could be beyond that. So you've had a public meetmg which had some attendance but limited attendance I think what the community is telling,the response that we've been seeing is they like the basic concept. They like the existing park They like the proposed improvements You know does the commission have confidence m the proposed improvements? You're the group that sat down in the work session and said you know let's add a splash pad. Let's add lights. Let's add parking lots and we did hear some things from the joint meeting from the City Council and if the commission wants to continue to take a look at more specific dollar amounts More phasing plans before you make that proposal Staff doesn't feel it's,we're obligated to send a full package at this time to the City Council In community park planning it's standard practice to develop a concept plan and then a master plan and there's often times no dollars attached to that It's just this is a concept plan Do we like its Is this what our vision is and let's approve a master plan and then let's move forward after that Master plans often change You know in the time that you would approve and the council would approve this,things might modify even more Right now we're in a modification on a tennis court to take it from tennis to adding basketball to probably adding pickleball They'll be playing a different sport out there, you know perhaps one in the morning and one in the afternoon so there's those kind of things Again I think the dollar amounts,we could spend a lot of time talking about them. Those dollars are going to age on the table and so what we talk about is not going to be valid information 3 or 5 years from now So I don't recommend you beat yourself up over that. Sometimes being bold is a good move and sometimes City Council's will surprise you I've seen recommendations that this body was feeling were overly exuberate and when the got to the City Council they said it wasn't enough Let's you know, let's add this Let's do that so this is really about visioning and about master planning and so those are my thoughts on the overall process. What I've been hearing from the community is that they've been waiting for hockey You know tennis was just kind of a standard feature of most community parks that kids could bike to in the summer. A family could play If that's changed, and I think modifying that is a good thing and beyond that you're really finishing out the rest of the park to make it a you know quote,unquote"modern 14 Park and Recreation Commission—May 28, 2014 park"with concessions,running water It was back m the first development that the sewer pipe and the water pipe's already here so it's sitting underneath where the concession stand is proposed so that master plan or that concept has been on the table for you know just about 20 years so those kind of thoughts that this would be,and that concession stand in that centralized area is looking to service all the soccer fields and all the So you walk to this concession stand and you get your popcorn and your soda and you walk back to your softball game or you come down from the soccer fields to the north and you come here Utilize the bathroom You bring your kids to the restroom You grab some concessions and you head back And then there's the center wheel and this is proposed to receive, it's shown there. So an octagon shelter as a part of the shelter mitiative So the City Council has approved the neighborhood shelter initiative This is programmed to receive this shelter as a part of that and so when you're out here participating in a game and there's a minor ramout or a weather event, spectators can gather underneath there. Spectators and players until that passes and then go back out and finish their game so you have that use handled there Doesn't make sense to put bathrooms and concessions here and bathroom and concessions here so you really pick the central location so this not only serves the splash pad but during off season times it will serve the field uses for bathrooms and concessions And we would approach the athletic associations much like we do at Lake Ann So they would be servicing that concession building They would be taking the money to you know buy backstops and utilize those types of revenues into the future And then, so that's the kind of proposal The warming house has to go up here. Again you have modern restrooms there and so you bring that on board with the hockey rink So I really encourage you to, communities expect that park boards will move things forward and say okay,this is the plan This is what we think people want. This is what we think we're here representing to do If it's not then tonight I would say okay, let's throw out some ideas on what we think we should be doing instead of what's on this board and Rick and I will go back and re-draw those things. From my viewpoint I think I'm hearing good things from the community about what you're proposmg. Kelly So Todd let's say a splash pad never happens or let's say it's 10 years out,is that still the best place to put a concession stand where we're proposing to put it? Does staff feel that that's still the best spot? Hoffman Yes Kelly. Okay. Scharfenberg Matt did you have something you wanted to say? Matt Mason Yeah, if I could just add one thing You know again just thinking as I'm looking through this You know the whole splash pad/concession thing is just still a head scratcher for me. Again living on the park,right. It is really rare for all 6 of those fields to be going at the same time. You'll have soccer practice on a couple and then you'll have baseball practice and occasionally you'll have games that are out there at the same time I don't think there's going to be enough people there to take advantage of a concession stand I just haven't seen it in the 15 years I've lived on that park,unless you guys are thinking something's radically changing but to compare this to Lake Ann How many fields does Lake Ann have? Scharfenberg 6 Matt Mason Okay. It's got a huge picnic pavilion It's got a lake,which I like to use It's got a lot of walking paths. It's got a beach. It's got a volleyball court There's an awful lot of stuff that goes on at Lake Ann that maybe justifies a concession stand You know this park here is just,I mean the only thing that you're adding that might add people,and I'm still not convinced is the splash pad I still,and I'm going to ask the City Council this. Do we know usage expectations for that amount of outlay? Because 15 Park and Recreation Commission—May 28, 2014 again you've got a beautiful lake with public access 5 minutes from this park to get to and the beach is never busy It's never busy. So just more food for thought for you guys. And I still want my trees so Scharfenberg: And I think ultimately when you look at it,you know and the answer to Matt's question,I think that this would be a destination ultimately that people would drive to it for the splash pad The people that live over in Matt's neighborhood in Springfield,they're not going to come there because they've got a pool You know unless they just send their kids over there to play, so you're not going to get a lot of,you're not going to be pulling the Springfield neighborhood necessarily You would get some but it's not like hey, let's go over there because they've got a water feature and we don't They've got that pool People would drive to the splash pad because they've got little kids and they want to come. I think it would become a destination with I think when you build,you know the stuff,the playground equipment and I think Matt you'd probably agree with this. The playground equipment out there is outdated and it's kind of,there isn't,you've got that whole climbing thing and that's about it There aren't swings and some other Matt Mason: Yeah there's not a lot for them to do Scharfenberg Right,there's not a lot for them to do and if you build something that incorporates that, that would be great and Matt you know what? I kind of agree with you to some extent that I'm not convinced that a concession stand is the best thing for that site What I would like to see, or what I think would do better at that facility is more of a multi use shelter Picnic shelter that people could rent. You know something similar to Lake Susan I think you'd really have to expand the bathrooms to almost be like a changing facility with a splash pad so that could be a significant facility if you've got bathrooms and kind of a changing area and you've got a big shelter for people to rent You know kind of like at Lake Riley they've got that big,huge circular shelter right next to the beach and people so,that's kind of what I envisioned with that. I'm not convinced agam concession building I'm not necessarily convinced putting in a warming house is the best cost either where we but,you know you'd potentially rent something like we do here at City Center and do something like that out there Stolar And going off of that,for the concession aspect if we were to change that,I know Minnetonka like at the high school they have the Legacy softball fields and they do like a golf cart that has concessions and stuff. I don't know the pricing about that but that could be also an alternative to the just building concession stand Just more mobile Scharfenberg And I guess to speak to Cole's question about whether we feel comfortable as a commission recommending something going forward I think Todd spoke to it tonight We don't necessarily have to do that. We still are waiting for what Magellan. We have to wait for them, and can you guys just touch on that agam? What is it that we have to wait? That we get clearance from Magellan as to what we want to do? Hoffman We've asked them to check the current,existing elevation of the pipeline and then to tell us at each point along that pipeline in our expansion area,how much soil will they allow us to put at each location So will they allow us to raise it 3 feet here and 1 feet here along that pipeline? Once we know that information then we can finalize the grading plan and then finalize the concept plan What we need from Magellan is an easement or right of entry to go on top of their pipeline in that easement An encroachment agreement Scharfenberg And again Todd the master plan itself like you had I think said is,can change It can change. This is somethmg we say,we're saying to the council these are the things that we think are important to put into Bandimere that we would like to see happen there and they just,they can say yeah or nay send it back to us? 16 Park and Recreation Commission—May 28,2014 Hoffman: Correct. Scharfenberg Or they can say no,I think that this is totally out of line. You guys need to revamp it or come up with a different idea Hoffman. And it's also your charge and the council's charge to produce a master plan for the public to comment on so when those,then those phasing proposals would come around People come to your public hearings They say we read in the newspaper you're going to build a splash pad. This is what we think Just like Mr Mason said,he would come to those meetings and comment on it so it's a public communication to let people know what your thoughts are And that started at your work session and then went to our public meeting and if we want to continue to modify that before we send it to council that's your discretion. Echternacht Would we break down a recommendation as far as a Phase 1,2,and 3 or we said this is what we envision it to be and then let them come back and but at that time based upon the dollars we would break it apart? Hoffman: Again that's up to your discretion I would recommend you do an overall master plan This is what the master plan is and then take it from there as a part of your budgeting process on an annual basis Scharfenberg So what we could do Rick as part of that, is if once the master plan, if we agree to it then in the CIP you would every year you would say okay, let's do lights and we're going to put those in these years or,and I think it would be,we would have to as a commission prioritize what we thought would go in there. What we would think Okay first we would like to do this and kind of put that in our CIP and that can change I mean for years we've had different warming houses that have come and gone in CIP's that you know it was in one year and then finally people just said,we're just not going to do that. There's not a need We don't see a need for that. I mean a commission 10 years from now could say yeah,we're not gomg to do a warming house out there We'll just continue on with what we've done if the hockey rink was built Echternacht: I just didn't know if council wanted some guidance as far as what,at this point as far as some phasing or if they just want the overall plan and then throw it back to us to break it down. When we do our annual Scharfenberg Well clearly they expressed you know at our meeting that we had with them,clearly they expressed that you know the overall,what is it? 3 point,how much was it? The cost Carron. More than that 4 Thunberg I think it was 4 point Scharfenberg: Yeah,4 okay So you know clearly they're saying you guys need to come to us. We're not going to light all the balifields at once. You need to adopt some sort of plan and tell us,you know have a reason why kind of you're doing that and phase that in over the years. That's going to happen I think if we just, if we,and I'm not saying we have to do it tonight but at least come up with a master plan sometime over the next 2 to 3 sessions and say this is what we think the plan should be and let them look at it and knowing that things are going to get phased in over the years Echternacht I just knew that they were,they were hitting us for some questions as far as you know why should lights go here rather than over at Lake Susan and so on, so I didn't know if we just threw,we're 17 Park and Recreation Commission—May 28,2014 going to have lights period If that was going to be good enough or if they wanted more detail at this time. Scharfenberg• Well I think at some point when we get to our CIP and we're putting those numbers in the CIP,I think we're going to have to have that conversation with them that we're doing this and here's the reason why we're doing this now But yeah I think we're going to have to come up I don't know that we have to necessarily do that at this time Kelly: What I kind of envisioned,oh go ahead Carron Oh just,I'm trying to break it down to make it simple because there's a lot of information on here and the way I'm looking at it is,the fields that are in place,they're in place They're going to get lit someplace down the line is the way I'm thinking so that,that's out of my mind I'm looking at the north end The tennis court area That area there I'm asking myself and I'm asking the rest of the commission as well,is that our ultimate use for that land? Do we agree with that tennis court area9 My personal feeling is yeah, it makes perfect sense for that area and then the parking lot is the parking lot The hockey rink and the warming house,do those two things make sense for that area as far as the master plan? Warming house,yeah or nay. And ultimately basically and then the splash pad but the land is already there. It's already built minus the retaining wall that might be needed but ultimately that's just all stuff that can happen later down the line so I guess to sum things up. I'm looking at just the tennis court and the hockey rink and then the lights The lights are a given. If this is our overall plan do we agree with those things in the north that are on this plan now to send to the council9 And then the splash pad is obviously,we can do more talking about that but it makes sense to me that the tennis court makes sense. Slash pickleball/basketball We can,I think we can leave it open as far as the title for now and then when we get to the CIP and the dollars to look at,we can see how things work or get more of a magnifying glass on that area when we put it in the CIP. And then does this area for a hockey rink/dog park make sense and we can leave the warming house out for the overall master plan and then we as a commission or the next commission down the line can take a look at that 10 years from now when we can afford it. I guess I'm just trying to simplify it here and try to strum up some ideas if this is actually what we want or do we want to see something different'? Kelly Well I would think we'd try to put together some kind of timeline You know we're going to light soccer field 1 at some point Then as the growth in soccer,if it demands that we down the road light soccer fields 2 and 3,then it will happen If the demand's not there for whatever reason,then we'll never get to lighting soccer fields 2 and 3 so I think you kind of phase it in over time and say,you know if needed here's where we're going with it as opposed to saying to the City Council,here's everything we're going to do and they're going to go well,from some of the questions we had last time I don't think they'd buy it to be honest with you and I might be wrong. And I'm not sure that,I'd like to know more if they're not going to be just tennis courts If they're going to be multi-purpose courts what are the costs going to be What would the cost be if we decided that that parking is necessary for that area and maybe it's not. I'd also like to know that with,you know Steve's idea that we just have a shelter in that area like Lake Susan,you know what would that cost instead of putting everything else in there so we can kind of look at the difference in costs and see what makes sense because it's,and again it's good to have a master plan and send it to them but I just don't want them to send it back and say well,we need a time line We need to know why you're lightmg You know which one are you going to light first and why and that's kind of what I got out of our session with the City Council. Maybe you guys got something different out of it Carron Well if we just take the dollars out of the big picture, does that help? Kelly. Say that again. 18 Park and Recreation Commission—May 28,2014 Carron. Just take the master plan Have no money associated whatsoever Is that what we dream of of a park? What we want Bandimere to look at I mean maybe that's a way of looking at it because it could be 3,4,or 5 years down the road Those prices are going to increase by 15-20 percent. I don't know. 10% Something like that Kelly. Right. Carron. That's going to depend upon budget what the CIP, or what we have in our budget going forward What we need to spend on other areas outside of Bandimere. I'm getting hung up on the dollars too I mean they're big dollars but ultimately. Kelly. Okay. No,I agree with you I like your idea actually Carron. Do we like the layout? Scharfenberg Right and isn't that what we're,that's conceivably that's what we have to say is,this is what we want this park to be. If we don't like this concept then we tell Rich and Todd and say we want to come back with somethmg different so you know I think we're all in agreement. I think what Brent says, take the dollars out of it What we have here What do we like? What do we don't like'? I mean I'm okay with the warming house,keeping it there because you're going to need some sort of facility It just may never be built I would like to do something with that,with some sort of a shelter Nice big shelter there at, because I think if you make that a destination park with some sort of feature, if it's a splash pad or it's something else,people will be there and want to rent that as a facility and you've got the people that are already with the ballfields and stuff are going to use that so. Hoffman And that is somewhat represented already Splash pad, shelter,concessions so and that intent, we just need to know that this half is going to be reservable It's going to be covered and reservable. Tennis court,you change that to multi-use courts Multi-use courts It's not going to change the dollar amount. Not going to change the dollar amount there And then really the, one of the biggest hang up's I hear is that splash pad and is that something that,and that came out of your work session so we started at the commission and is it going to end at the commission or are you going to keep supporting it. That's really up to you Thunberg. You know as a resident I'm real fearful of a comment well let's not disclose costs because I don't think I would have worried about the splash pad either except when I saw and went whoa, $1 6 million for all of this Are we going to get the usage out of that'? I mean I'd rather see you pave all those paths and make them nice asphalt so people can rollerblade Don't have that in Chanhassen either. I think you've got disclose the cost to City Council and I want to be on record as bringing that up so thank you Hoffman And again the splash pad's $450,000. It's not the$1 6 million Scharfenberg I mean another thing to thmk about, and I'll just throw this out again is,you know we already have one skating, skate park okay but it's in the centrally located. Do you throw another'? You know do you keep that as that multi-facility use instead of a tennis court that you ultimately put something else out there for people to use in the southern area'? Because you've got a lot of kids in Matt's neighborhood and Lake Susan and stuff that would potentially come and ride to that area to do skate park. Now we already have a skate park so I'm not advocatmg for that but just those are the things I think as a council, or as a commission we need to think about in terms of putting this together. I like this plan I think it's a good idea I think it has that water feature that we don't have and so 19 Park and Recreation Commission—May 28,2014 Kelly: I don't know,I bike by the splash pad in Eden Prairie on a regular basis on the trail I use and it's very rarely busy Once in a great while or maybe on a real hot day but there's,there's not a lot of cars there and it's just,and you can drive right up to the splash pad there and park right next to it. And so it's easy access and I don't see it getting used very often when I bike by. Carron: Well I'm for you know tabling this too until the next month and think about it for another 4 weeks and then bring in some more ideas and you know,ask the staff to answer some more questions once we think about it if we have two different views right now. Like Todd said I don't think we're on a huge timeline here It's just 2015 CIP will be the first thing that would happen if we decide to put it there If you're up for that or if you want to keep discussing I can go either way Kelly: Well I think we're going to get into a little bit of CIP discussion but we have to have CIP probably be wrapped up by July Is that when we typically wrap it up Todd? Hoffman Correct Kelly: Correct. So we have two more sessions and I think to intertwine this with the CIP discussion might help us come together and where we think we're going on this so if everybody's agreeable on tabling this until the next session,I'm agreeable. Ryan The only,the only issue I have with tabling it is with the CIP we're talking about dollars and not that we wouldn't disclose dollars to the council I think they're very aware of the dollars in this plan. I think what we need to do tonight is utilize that vision Is this what we see for the development of the parks Are the main features or the concepts what we want to do going forward as a commission? And then when the council sees this they will,the dollars will still be associated with this and they understand that dollars change over the years and we're not doing it all at once but they like the idea and if they have questions then that gives us some guidance but to keep waiting to re-discuss this plan,unless there's something in particular that jumps off the page that nobody wants to do,you know then say what that is and then let's have the discussion but I don't want to keep kicking the can down the road because the CIP discussion is a huge discussion in and of itself because of the dollars involved and how we budget So I'd rather say you know this is our vision. This is what we want to do generally speaking and then you know get feedback from council and move forward Kelly. Steve and Rick and I were at the City Council work session when the park and rec department made a presentation on this So the City Council's seen all this and they've seen dollars and their questions are how do we prioritize and why and so,the part Hike about tabling it,putting in the CIP is it gives us a chance to prioritize and send it to the City Council because that's kind of what they told us to do. Carron: Well we have to planning before we know what to prioritize. That's the other issue Thunberg Yeah I agree with what Elise was saying. I feel like we need to have the vision first and if we mtertwme this with the CIP discussion we're going to get more hung up on dollars and start trying to think of do we put these dollars in 20159 20169 And then all of a sudden we're piecemealing it and we don't know what part of a bigger picture it is so,I get that it seems like it should be a close second conversation to start prioritizing and say,you know to have that at the ready and if the council asks questions right after this plan,to say well we think we do lighting first because that's a need right now and we'd want to see how that increases the usage of the parks And then we would do the north side because the hockey rink and the multi-purpose court and then the splash pad and the center court would be last or something Just see like okay now we're truly finalizing this as a destination If we have that 20 Park and Recreation Commission—May 28, 2014 prioritization as aquick second,then I think we can start talkingCIP but it feels like we need a vision first to say yeah,without dollars We know they're big Whether we take a tittle of this off or add something else,but having that plan first I think is,we need to have that locked down before we can really move forward mto the details Echternacht I'm just seeing this vision,we've already presented them with a vision Like Cole said,we were there for their planning and they've already seen this and it sounds to me like if we just are going back and giving them basically the same thing,maybe you know we're changing the tennis court's name to multi-purpose whatever unless we really,unless we really take,you know say we're taking the splash pad out or we're going to do this or that. We're just throwing back to them what we've already given them Ryan• But that was just a work session of conversation and it was a quick highlight of what we've done and what we plan on doing This,in my mind is a formality that we have to go through so here council is what our vision is Now they formally get back to Todd or us and say,we don't like any of this Okay that's your vision Now come up with the steps. Now prioritize That was an informal conversation of highlighting what we as a commission have done and plan on doing This is a recommendation that we are putting forward This is our vision of the development of a park and I think those are two different approaches, or conversations or approaches Echternacht Well I guess I would agree with that other than hearing their comments that they wanted more insight into how we saw this developing and we're not giving that to them now but I guess we give them our vision and then have them come back again and say well we wanted to know what you want in what order Hoffman Again they are two different distinct processes so master planning and CIP budgeting And it's just a guess on how much,what their reaction is going to be We're going to take this,whenever we get a recommendation out of the City Council we're going to take it to their work session We're going to prepare a power point We're going to go through this,these proposed improvements and the dollar amounts that we currently have the current estimates in some detail. City Council will say,we like that plan We want to modify it They are the ultimate deciders on what goes down on paper as a master plan for the expansion of Bandimere Community Park You make that recommendation You make a recommendation on a CIP. They either agree with it Modify it Change it Delete it You've seen them do all of that to your recommendations over the years and they'll continue to do that. That's their,that's their role m our community so At the work session it was talked about as one of the items but it's not a part of this process that we have mapped out as a part of the master planning process That wasn't a stop in the master planning process. That work session. Scharfenberg: And there was,there was a discussion I think to some extent the council you know,to Rick and Cole's point,you know they were looking for some prioritization of how,that how this would all kind of come together and again I don't know that we need to do that with a master plan knowing that they were kind of I think as we have been hung up on the numbers and talking about the numbers but again we're just saying this is what we envision this park to be and I think we either can do it now or we can do it next month. Echternacht Well I guess I would say we, let's do it now and get it over with and we know what,our job will be the next month then to work on. Canon. Well for the record my thought is that, do exactly kind of what we've been talking about. The tennis courts,we can make that multi-use asphalt surface area Whatever. If that's for pickleball,tennis courts,basketball The warmmg house for the hockey rink,I agree with Steve I don't think it 21 Park and Recreation Commission—May 28, 2014 necessarily needs to be on here It could be part of the master plan It might be needed someplace down the line. And then the concession stand is kind of iffy for me but ultimately the master plan as I look at this whole thing,this is pretty much what I like I don't foresee any kind of other kind of a field or use or what Another different kmd of amenity that I'd want to see m place of something else that's on this plan Thunberg Yeah I'd also agree. As an overall plan I like this I think having the tennis courts be called a multi-purpose sport court That was one of the concerns was if it's just tennis. Personally I like the, keeping the splash pad in there We can continue to look into that. I think there's been a lot of comments on the city not having a pool versus other cities having that and if this is kind of a trend as we're seeing m other growing cities,I think it's something we should keep m there and continue to look into The only thing,I want the multi-purpose sport court there I think it's,with everything else it provides. It's well rounded on the different activities It'd just be if there's truly a concern on parking as this gets bigger, if that's our only spot Do we need to look at that a little further? I would vote to still have the courts there but if the parking's a concern that seems to be our only spot where we could put it there so if there's anybody else's thoughts on usage or if it's not truly a concern as long as we have signage saying there is ample parking in that southern lot,then maybe we're fine with that Echternacht: Down the line if that multi-purpose court is one of the later things and we find in phase 1 and phase 2 that parking is just terrible,can we go in and put parking in at that point then? Rich Koechlem Absolutely. It would probably cost a little less but,then the tennis courts but you know you'd still want to light it The only thmg is, it's really focused in the north where you're getting one soccer field and some hockey as a direct use It's not really helping the parkmg over here that much on the two soccer fields or the ballfields really. But it,absolutely it's an option I guess Scharfenberg I mean what about,and I'll just throw this out there What about the possibility of making the hockey rmk/warming house area a parking lot? Put the lot there and really move the hockey and the stuff over to the tennis courts and I just kind of throw that out there. Hoffman. It's not large enough Scharfenberg It's not large enough? Ruegemer. It's not long enough Scharfenberg. Alright Kelly You know just from my discussions with the tennis players in town who can get on any court at any time We're not hard up for,we have more tennis courts than we need and so if it's just going to be tennis courts,personally I'm against it We've got a pickleball group starting up but I think we're going to be having discussions about pickleball over at the Rec Center and I don't know where that group is on their request for$40,000 but that will come up in our discussions And actually from what I've seen pickleball's becoming very popular in a lot of placed and so do we make a multi,do we make it a multi court system or do we do pickleball because tennis is already you know, I don't see tennis coming back ever like it was in the 70's when you had to wait an hour anywhere there was to play tennis I haven't seen that since and that's been decades so you know I guess I have a problem with putting something in that's not going to be used and that's why you know I'd like to look at what would be other options And you might be right The parking there doesn't really help the soccer fields that much. Maybe it does Maybe it doesn't but it might be an odd spot to add more parking so I think we need to have more discussions on that. 22 Park and Recreation Commission—May 28, 2014 Echternacht. Throw something else out The basketball courts that are existmg there,are they used very much do you know? Down at the bottom of the hill Hoffman Just a smgle court Echternacht Single. Hoffman: .. on the basketball court,it gets used Echternacht That would,I'm not sure if that would be a good place for a tennis court or the pickleball court or something Hoffman: Not down Echternacht Down the hill would be too difficult for people to get down there Okay Hoffman And it's just been a,we're not gomg to,when the community park was built we vacated the neighborhood park. Brought those things up to the community park and just a promise back to the neighborhood that we're not going to drive those community uses. I think we were lucky to get part of the disc golf into that,back into that park. That the neighbors accommodated that And now you have two holes of the disc golf go through that existing Bandimere Heights Park Echternacht Okay. Matt Mason: You know if I could just add one other observation If you don't have a big draw,I know you guys are saying a destination park but what do you envision Bandimere? Is it a ballfield park or is it a destination like we're thinking the splash zone area because if you don't have the splash zone there,you don't have any additional features that are drawing in masses I mean the skating isn't happening at the same time baseball and soccer is Right? You've got no problem there Tennis,even if it's full is 8 people max,right? And again 15 years on the park,there haven't been parking issues There just haven't and if you add lights all you're doing is adding another shift right so you're not increasing the volume at any specific time So I guess just for your consideration,I don't think you have a parking problem unless you add a feature like that concession or splash and if it does take off, okay now you've got a problem but I don't think it will from your comment but just another viewpoint. Kelly Other comments or does somebody want to put a motion together? Carron• Well Mr.Chair you're the one who's talking about the tennis courts and what,do you have any other alternate thoughts about? Are you just talking about pickleball court? You got me a little confused here Or are you,are you just talking about parking? Kelly. No you know it's,parking was one of the thoughts but parking might,you know you look at where it's located and it might not make any sense to do parking there and from what we hear parking might not be an issue anyway. You know we might not have to do anything there. See what crops up What becomes popular down the road You know it's too much money to spend just on tennis courts that aren't going to be used in my opinion Carron: So for that area, in that size of land for use would you,we've been talking about multi-use sport court or something like that. Is that an option? Kelly Let's see if pickleball takes off Maybe just put in pickleball courts 23 Park and Recreation Commission—May 28, 2014 Canon. Okay so you'd like to name it just pickleball courts Kelly And maybe we see a resurgence in tennis and decide at some point that it's tennis and pickleball's but we haven't had a resurgence in tennis in 40 some years. Ryan. So couldn't we just call it a sport court and then it eventually,I mean it could be Kelly: Sport court TBD? Ryan Yeah Carron. Hard surface sport court Ryan Right You put in 4 square Maybe 4 square... Echternacht Hey,put shuffleboard. Hoffman: And again looking at geography and placement, a fenced court type of facility,that's a good place. It's surrounded by roadways so you don't want to put a high occupancy use there that has a lot of kids so,but if you take your,you know if you show up there as a teenager or a family you've got your 4 or 5 stalls 6-7 car stall parking lot there. That space lends itself just by happenstance to the size of a tennis court and it's a good use for that particular location What it finally becomes if a question. Basketball,the full court basketball at Lake Susan is popular and at Pioneer Pass it was kind of modified down size version of basketball And the court up at the new park,Riley Ridge is being It gets to that teenage group again that play basketball,tennis at South Lotus Lake Park You have both basketball and tennis I don't know the perfect split... There is still tennis interest,I don't know Jerry if you want to comment on what's going on with some of your groups but there are still tennis players in the town of Chanhassen When I first arrived there was a tennis court in every park master plan in our city There would have been 24 tennis courts over our community One of the things, one of the early park board members,when the park board did it they said you know we're just not going to do that We're just not going to, it's not that popular anymore. We're going to put it in every community park and let people drive to central locations for that kind of a use and so that's where that kind of plan was changed. Ruegemer Yeah Todd is correct. We do have you know groups,mainly senior groups on an annual basis that do reserve courts at City Center Park, South Lotus,and sometimes at Lake Susan but for the most part that's it for the senior groups We are still doing tennis you know activities and lessons through Sky Hawks at their Chan Rec Center as well so. Cole is right to a certain degree,tennis isn't as popular as it was but there is still tennis programs and activities happening in our community annually Hoffman Are they passionate? Ruegemer: They are passionate Hoffman They like nice courts. And clean bathrooms Ruegemer: And vine free Echternacht Well I guess, if no one else wants to I'd make a motion that we present to the City Council the plans as are other than changing the name of the tennis courts to a sport court to be determined, like someone said or to sport court and otherwise present it as it is. 24 Park and Recreation Commission—May 28, 2014 Kelly There's a motion I believe to go along with the staff's proposed motion Is that right Rick? Echternacht Yes Kelly: That would be right here Echternacht Yes Kelly. Yes, okay. There's a proposed motion to go with the wording that we have on G-3 First page Is there a second? Thunberg Second Kelly There's a motion and a second to go with the proposed motion on the first page of G-3 All those in favor say aye. Scharfenberg Before we move forward can I? Kelly Sure Scharfenberg: I'd like to amend the motion to take out concession stand Just have shelter/restrooms. Kelly Okay I think we need to vote down this motion because it's been proposed and seconded and then insert So all in favor of the proposed motion of this say aye Echternacht moved,Thunberg seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommends that the City Council approve the proposed Bandimere Community Park master site plan dated May 12,2014 as amended to change the name of tennis courts to sport courts; and directs the Park and Recreation Commission to begin developing a phased construction timeline and Capital Improvement Program (CIP)for the project,. All voted against the motion and the motion failed 0 to 7. Kelly Steve Scharfenberg I would propose a motion to adopt the master plan with the changes to a tennis court and taking out concession stand but leaving it as a shelter Shelter/restroom Ryan Why do you want to take out? You don't think concessions will be used? Scharfenberg I just don't see that complex being used for tournaments like you would have I know you've got soccer there but I don't know how many tournaments they run out at, if they have any tournaments. Jerry, do they have tournaments out at Bandimere? Ruegemer Baseball tournaments? Scharfenberg. No, no. I'm sorry. Soccer tournaments Do they run soccer tournaments at Bandimere? Ruegemer Typically there's one to two soccer tournaments Typically district's in July at Bandimere 25 Park and Recreation Commission—May 28, 2014 Scharfenberg. And they're not going to,you know if there's going to be a softball or baseball tournament,they're going to run it out of Lake Ann They may have games out there They may say okay,we're going to send one or two games out to that facility I just don't see that there's going to be an overwhelming need for a concession stand I think it's going to be used more if you keep it a feature of the splash pad,you're going to need a significant kind of restroom, locker room kind of changing area with a shelter as part of that. That's what I envision that Canon: Just to piggyback Steve We got 3 different ballfields out there too Scharfenberg Right Right,they're not all softball and two different baseball fields Carron. Right. So if you're talking a tournament you're right There'd probably only be one field being used. Scharfenberg Right Kelly So Steve if I'm understanding you correctly,go to the overall master plan We're pulling out the splash pad, shelter,concession and playground renovation at this time and the tennis courts? Scharfenberg No I'm not pulling out Echternacht No Scharfenberg: Splash pad I'm leaving that in Kelly Okay Scharfenberg I'm just modifying shelter/concession to just be shelter/restrooms Kelly. Okay. So what we'd have there is splash pad/shelter/restrooms slash. Scharfenberg Playground Kelly Playground. Okay. There's a motion up there that's a little different than the proposed motion that will take out the concession stand basically and leave everything else the same, is that correct Steve? Scharfenberg Yes Kelly Is there a? Ryan. Can I get a clarification'? Todd was it brought to you by the CAA or any group that said we'd really like a concession stand out at Bandimere or was this just part of the,how did we end up with a concession stand'? Was it something that somebody had asked for at some point? Hoffman Again the concept that a concession stand building would go there goes back to the original plan. We ran sewer and water there There was two discussions at that time Concessions would either go in the center of the baseball/softball fields or at this more centrally located area so there is differences on how Lake Ann and Bandimere is used. If you have a splash pad without concessions then people are, you're just going to have to,people are going to have to brmg their own refreshments to that facility and that's certainly an option. If you want concessions then you have that there for the splash pad facility and you also have the option to have it during when games are operating so,the concept was always to have it 26 Park and Recreation Commission—May 28, 2014 there. Doesn't have to go there. Lake Ann there was never a concession stand at the ballfields and then the athletic association worked very hard to modify that building,which was just an open shelter at the time to add a concession stand And then the final lynch pin for that was the $30,000 sewer line that the City had to install to get a sink so to accommodate a concession stand it cost the City a$30,000 sewer line so they can sell you know$2 hotdogs but that was the,that was the overriding consensus at that time that they wanted concessions at Lake Ann for the baseball activities and the tournaments. They serve concessions there every night that games are on Not just during tournaments But the sewer line,the water line,can be utilized for whatever you put there Concessions or not Kelly. Back to the proposed motion. It's the same motion without the concession stand Is there a second? Echternacht I'll second Kelly There is a proposal and a second to use the wording excluding the concession stand Scharfenberg moved,Echternacht seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommends that the City Council approve the proposed Bandimere Community Park master site plan dated May 12,2014 as amended to change the name of tennis courts to sport courts and deleting concession stand and replacing with shelter/restrooms; and directs the Park and Recreation Commission to begin developing a phased construction timeline and Capital Improvement Program (CIP)for the project. All voted in favor,except for Chair Kelly who opposed,and the motion carried with a vote of 6 to 1. ESTABLISH 2015-2019 PARK AND TRAIL ACQUISITION AND DEVELOPMENT CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM(CIP) TOUR DATE. Kelly: Moving right along, Todd I think we got an email from you that gave us a date Hoffman Tuesday, June 10th Kelly. June 10th. Hoffman Does that work, Tuesday,June 10th? Kelly Oh somebody hasn't seen the email yet Hoffman: Oh it's in the memo. So it's on item G-4 Matt Mason Thank you everybody Hoffman Good night Thank you. Kelly Thanks Matt Hoffman So typically we take a separate night You can do this before your June regular meeting if you want to take a little shorter tour. Not as much time. That's at your discretion. And the sites you want to see Bandimere might be a good start. Scharfenberg• And the meeting's on the 24th correct? 27 Bandimere Open House Comments & Responses Lights are a BIG issue to the Neighbors As a homeowner whose backyard borders directly on the north end of the park, my biggest question is where the proposed athletic field lighting will go. Since you are inviting comment tonight, mine is that I'm strongly opposed to adding lighting to the two soccer fields in the northeast corner of the park First, as a neighbor to the fields, I can assure you that they are not used enough to require lighting Second, I do not want giant lights basically shining into my backyard and windows. Third, I'm concerned about the negative impact on my and my neighbor's property values Nancy Smith, 9051 Lake Riley Boulevard called to let us know that she is fine with all the planned improvements to Bandimere Community Park with the exception of lighting - posting/communicating the hours for lights What time are they turned off(baseball fields, tennis courts, hockey rink) One of the residents that lives on Greenview Drive dust north of the park had concerns with the soccer field lights shining on his house Another resident questioned the lighting sequence on the fields when there are night games, i.e. would all the fields be lit if only one is being used in the evening We should charge the various organizations, that will benefit from the lights, for their cost or charge them for the use of the fields. Neighbor on East side of Springfield said let me know a few years before the lights go in so I can sell. Posting/communicating the hours for lights What time are they turned off(baseball fields, tennis courts, hockey rink) That the lights will automatically go off at park closing or that someone (coach) can turn off when games are over Noise (and Lighting) Filtering On the north side of the hockey rink, the resident would like to see some pine trees place there to filter some of the possible noise from the park Need a buffer of pine trees and/or a berm on the east side of the wet land for both lights and sound The homeowner's association will be talking to their developer about planting trees on the north and east sides of the park This will be a combination of evergreen and deciduous trees, in an effort to block the light and noise from the park Water Run-off On the north side of park, addressing the grading where the current holding pond is With the change in elevation, will additional run-off negatively impact those backyards? One resident that lives immediately north of the hockey rink was concerned with water drainage, which he feels would be an issue because the rink will be built up with fill dirt. There is a retention pond and berm behind his house, but he is worried that the extra height of the hockey rink will cause additional water flow that can't be contained by the current landscaping setup. Tennis Courts & Parking For the tennis courts, there is a possibility to stripe the two courts in conjunction with 6 pickelball courts This would require the use of portable pickelball nets, but it's a great way for dual purpose functionality. I was told that the lines are actually not that confusing Riley Park in Eden Prairie has done this with their tennis courts Several of the residents were concerned about the amount of parking in the park, which would lead to the overflow parking on the neighborhood streets mentioned earlier They would like to see additional parking in the area of the park entrance for fear that park visitors would not use the large parking lot in the center of the park That a sign be mounted by trail entry from the Springfield area stating NO vehicles allowed or blocked to vehicles Questioned the justification of tennis courts, little usage expected, perhaps pickle ball usage! Tennis player questioned the need for additional Tennis Courts as he has never had to wait to play tennis in Chanhassen.. he would rather see that area as additional parking Lot of concern with parking by the splash area, hockey area and soccer fields 2 & 3 General Items / Questions General questions on "the process" -how this project comes to fruition (Council vote, referendum) Concern of when public restroom would be open and vandalism issues Overall, the feedback was very positive PUBLIC OPEN HOUSE • 11 Y 0 : 100 . . Expansion Planning f 111 H A SBandiniere COMMifilltY Park Tuesday, April 22, 2014 from 6:00-7:30 pm Chanhassen Senior Center LOWER LEVEL OF CITY HALL-7700 MARKET BLVD In 2012, the City of Chanhassen purchased 4 5 acres of land to facilitate construction of a new entrance road for Bandimere Community Park and to accommodate the expansion of park facilities The City's Park and Recreation Commission would like to invite you to attend and participate in a public open house to review and comment on conceptual plans for improving existing facilities and adding new amenities The City's 2014 budget included dollars for planning work associated with future improvements at Bandimere Community Park Currently no budgeted dollars have been allocated for construction Proposed additions to Proposed improvements to < ' ; "^ ►: z - j the existing park include: the existing park include` `1 ' - a �� r !A' 1 f • Hockey Rink • Splash Pad Facility :� ``f ` • Open Skate Rink • Playground Upgrades �' �q� . '� • Warming House • Concession and Restroom a > : r ,� �_ ' fc • Shelter Building .�` 7 ` Tennis Courts 11 • Parking Lot • Shelter Structure for i?, , Addition Baseball/Softball Fields r- , _• • Stormwater • Athletic Field Lighting **.:1 '0•. \ 4, ,,; AGENDA PARK & RECREATION COMMISSION WORK SESSION TUESDAY, MARCH 11,2014 CHANHASSEN SENIOR CENTER, 7700 MARKET BOULEVARD A. WORK SESSION 1. Bandimere Park Expansion: a. Introductions b Review of Existing Park c. Review of Land Purchase&CSAH 101 Construction d Recommended Improvements for Discussion • Tennis Court with Lighting • Hockey Rink with Lighting -Paved? • Free Skating/Green Space Area • Warming House -Restrooms? - Storage Space? • Lighting Soccer Field • Lighting Baseball/Softball Fields • Baseball/Softball Concession Building -Restrooms • Shelter Building Near Playgrounds -Restrooms? • Parking Lot for Hockey and Tennis e. Phasing: • Tennis Courts with Lighting • Hockey&Free Skating Rink, Warming House,Lighting, Parking • Ball Field Concession Building, Playground Shelter,Ball Field Lighting f. Discuss Public Open House and Schedule B. ADJOURNMENT EXPANSION PLANNING FOR BANDIMERE COMMUNITY PARK SCHEDULED Bandimere Community Park is a 40-acre property that is currently programmed primarily for youth athletics The park features six natural grass athletic fields, a play area, picnic area, 9-hole disc golf course and pedestrian trails. The park was purchased from the Bandimere family in 1988 following a successful referendum to acquire additional parklands within the community. Following a second successful referendum in 1997, Bandimere Community Park was constructed and opened to the public in June of 1999 In 2012, two additional properties totaling 4.5 acres were acquired to accommodate the construction of a new and safer park access road and to expand recreational facility offerings. Items currently being considered include. • Tennis Courts with Lighting • Hockey Rink with Lighting • Free Skating/Green Space Area • Warming House • Lighting Soccer Field • Lighting Baseball/Softball Fields • Baseball/Softball Concession Building • Shelter Building near Playgrounds • Restrooms • Parking Lot for Hockey&Tennis Meetings to facilitate the expansion planning are scheduled as follows. Public Open House. Tuesday, April 22, 6 pm, City Hall Park& Recreation Commission Review/Action. Wednesday, May 28, 7.30 pm, City Hall City Council Review/Action. Monday, June 9, 7 pm, City Hall Public comments regarding the proposed expansion plans will be accepted at all meetings If you have questions concerning the proposed expansion in recreational facilities at Bandimere Community Park, please contact Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director at 952-227-1129 or by e-mail at thoffman@ci chanhassen mn us