CC 2015 05 11
CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL
REGULAR MEETING
MAY 11, 2015
Mayor Laufenburger called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. The meeting was opened
with the Pledge to the Flag.
COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT:
Mayor Laufenburger, Councilwoman Tjornhom,
Councilman McDonald, Councilwoman Ryan, and Councilman Campion
STAFF PRESENT:
Todd Gerhardt, Chelsea Petersen, Paul Oehme, Kate Aanenson, Todd
Hoffman and Roger Knutson
PUBLIC PRESENT:
Larry Martin 7725 Vasserman Trail
Karina Larson 5451 Zumbra Circle
PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT:
Mayor Laufenburger: Well welcome to this council meeting to those present in the chambers as
well as those who are watching on Mediacom cable channel 8 at home. Nice to have you with us
tonight. I want to begin with a public announcement. This week is National Law Enforcement
Officers Week and I want to just draw attention to the public of a celebration that’s taking place
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tomorrow on May 12. This is the 160 anniversary of the Carver County Sheriff’s Office. It’s
taking place at the Government Center in Chaska. It will begin at 11:00 tomorrow morning with
a welcome from current Sheriff Jim Olson. There will be some guided tours of exhibits at the
County. There will be some light refreshments and then there will also be a ceremony and the
retirement of the badges of 3 fallen deputies. Deputies that lost their life in duty with Carver
County. And then there will also be a driving tour after that but tonight I would just like to draw
attention to, in honor of not only law enforcement officers week but Peace Officers Memorial
Day, which is later this week. We have had 3 officers with the Carver County Sheriff’s Office
that have lost their life and I just wanted just recap briefly. I know their families may or may not
be watching tonight but these are people who stepped into service to protect us and to serve us.
Deputy Ronald Kalkes and Deputy Richard Lura died, actually Deputy Kalkes was in the
sheriff’s office for 3 years beginning in August of 1970 and Deputy Richard Lura began March
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11, 1972 and on Wednesday, November 28 of 1973 at 7:45 p.m. Deputies Lura and Kalkes
were responding to assist Chaska police. As their squad crossed the railroad tracks at the Zemble
Street in Chaska a westbound train hit the passenger side of the car and both deputies were
killed. Those are the first two. And then on August 2, 1988 Deputy Donald Reimann who was
hired as a part time deputy in 1969 and was hired full time in 1975, he was working as an
investigator but he returned to patrol duties a year prior to this incident. On Tuesday, August 2,
1988 at 2050 hours. That would be 8:50 evening, Deputy Reimann suffered a fatal heart attack
while pursuing a motorcycle on County Road 51 near Hamburg and during the chase Deputy
Reimann’s squad veered off the road and went into a field where he was found slumped behind
the wheel by the responding deputies. So these are the 3 people who have lost their life in
Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015
protecting and serving Carver County. As a result of that I’m going to read a resolution as a
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motion. I’ll then ask for a second and vote. This is a resolution proclaiming May 11 through
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the 15, 2015 as Law Enforcement Officer Week and May 15, 2015 as Peace Officers Memorial
Day here in Chanhassen. Whereas in 1962 President John F. Kennedy signed a proclamation
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designating 15 as Peace Officers Memorial Day and the week in which it falls as Law
Enforcement Officers Week; and Whereas tens of thousands law enforcement officers from
around the world converge on Washington D.C. to participate in a number of events that honor
those that have paid the ultimate sacrifice; and Whereas members of the Carver County Sheriff’s
Office play an essential role in safeguarding the rights and freedom of all citizens of Chanhassen;
and Whereas during Law Enforcement Week and throughout the year the City of Chanhassen
recognizes and appreciates the critical contributions and sacrifices made by members of the
Carver County Sheriff’s Office and honors their courage and dedication, Therefore I, Denny
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Laufenburger, Mayor of Chanhassen do hereby proclaim May 11 through the 15, 2015 as Law
Enforcement Officers Week and May 15, 2015, that is this Friday, as Peace Officers Memorial
Day in Chanhassen. I make that as a motion. Is there a second?
Councilman McDonald: Second.
Resolution #2015-27: Mayor Laufenburger moved, Councilman McDonald seconded that
the City Council approve a Proclamation Designating May 11-15, 2015 as Law
Enforcement Officers Week and Peace Officers Day on May 15, 2015. All voted in favor
and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you. We appreciate our peace officers and we know that they do
more than an exemplary job in keeping our city and the entire county safe. Next item is our
agenda. Council members are there any modifications to the agenda? And if not we will
proceed with the agenda as printed. Very well, as printed.
CONSENT AGENDA: Councilwoman Tjornhom moved, Councilwoman Ryan seconded
to approve the following consent agenda items pursuant to the City Manager’s
recommendations:
1. Approve City Council Minutes dated April 27, 2015
2. Receive Planning Commission Minutes dated April 21, 2015
Resolution #2015-28:
3. Approve Resolution Accepting Community Sponsor Donations
4. Approval of Temporary On-Sale Liquor License, Chanhassen Rotary Club, Fourth of
July Celebration, July 3 and 4
5. Highway 101 Improvements, Pioneer Trail to Flying Cloud Drive:
a. Approve Agreement with MnDOT for Right-of-Way Acquisition
b. Approve Joint Powers Agreement with Carver County
c. Approve Purchase Agreement, Andrea Carty
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Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015
6. Item Deleted
Resolution #2015-29:
7. Resolution Accepting Donations of Lake Susan Park Ball Field
Scoreboard and Lake Ann Park Ball Field Scoreboards (Fields #2 and #3), Chanhassen
Athletic Association and Dugout Club
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS.
None.
PUBLIC HEARING: 2015 STREET REHABILITATION (KERBER BOULEVARD)
PROJECT NO. 15-02: ASSESSMENT HEARING AND AWARD CONTRACT.
Paul Oehme: Thank you Mayor, City Council members. As you had indicated this is the review,
the Kerber Boulevard project again. We’d like to call an assessment hearing and then consider
awarding a contract for the construction. Just a little background on the, like for the agenda for
tonight. I would like to review the project and the scope. Review the cost and the financing of
the project schedule and then I’d like to call a public hearing. So the project is rehabilitation of
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Kerber Boulevard from Powers Boulevard down to 78 Street. It’s approximately 1.4 miles of
street that is proposed to be rehabilitated. The street is 40 feet wide. Street was built 35 years
ago, except for the portion down by City Hall which was a lot older but it was reconstructed and
overlaid in 1996 and has been sealcoated as well. Pavement surveys which was last taken in
2013 indicates that this section of roadway is in the category or the condition where some major
rehabilitation is necessary. Pavement condition index range between 23 and 57. Anything
below a 65 is in the City’s practice should be considered for rehabilitation which means
resurfacing. Not too much structural rehabilitation but mainly drivability. So what the City did
do an extensive survey of the street section. What’s needed out there and what we are proposing
is to mill off 4 inches of the bituminous material, pavement surface and then do some corrective
measures on any pavement distresses we’d like to fix those as well and then overlay the project.
Overlay the street with the same 4 inches of asphalt that we took off. Basically matching in the
curb and the crown of the road and putting back the super elevation that the street currently has.
Some miscellaneous curb repair is also necessary. There are some sunken curb, some damaged
curb that we’d also like to take care of in conjunction with this project. Along with the street
project there is a lengthy trail system along Kerber Boulevard. Approximately 70 percent of the
roadway has trail on it either side. The pavement condition for the trail is also in poor condition
so what staff is proposing is that the trail, bituminous pavement be removed and repaved in
conjunction, at the same time as Kerber Boulevard improvements are being made. Along with
the trail section we also are proposing that pedestrian ramps down to the street section be
reconstructed to current ADA standards. Those are the standards that are currently required by
State Aid office. The storm sewer in the area is also in need of repair. There’s a lot of damage,
catch basins and sunken structures and rings that should be replaced at this time. We’d like to
replace most of the storm sewer castings with up to date grates. They take the water a little bit
better than the old style of grates and they last a lot longer as well. So like to change out the
circular grates to the vane grate improvements for more efficient flows. Watermain along the
corridor has been investigated too. There’s only been one documented watermain break along,
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Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015
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just north of 78 Street in the year 2000 so at this time we are not recommending that any
watermain be replaced in conjunction with this project. City staff did televise the sanitary sewers
within the Kerber Boulevard right-of-way and we did find a section of sanitary sewer pipe just
east of Powers Boulevard that is, has a significant sag in it. Approximately, about 40 percent of
the pipe is submerged at this time. We’d like to replace that pipe. Get the sag out of there and
reduce the risk of future back up’s along this section of pipe. There is a, it is a deeper section of
sanitary sewer pipe that would have to be replaced so there would be required to be a closure of
the roadway for about 4 days for that sewer pipe to go in. Staff did take bids on the project on
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March 30. They’re listed here. There were 7 bidders. Bids were tabulated and checked for
errors and the low bidder was Park Construction at $9,980,317.80. The project costs and budgets
are shown here. We did budget in our fiscal year 2015 shown here in, based upon the bids. The
low bid, Park Construction including contingencies and indirect costs that are within the
budgeted amount as shown here. So we did receive favorable low bids based upon our estimates.
Mayor Laufenburger: Just to clarify Mr. Oehme. The successful bid was how much?
Paul Oehme: $998,317.80.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, I wanted to make sure we weren’t going to be paving all of the state
of Minnesota.
Paul Oehme: No, no, no, no. Sorry. There we go. Thank you for that clarification.
Mayor Laufenburger: Alright.
Paul Oehme: So along with street rehabilitation and reconstruction projects the City practice is
to assess benefiting property owners 40 percent of the street improvement project. Kerber
Boulevard’s no different. We do assess for the residential equivalency so the calculations are
shown here. There are only a few properties along Kerber Boulevard that are, have direct access
onto Kerber Boulevard so we are proposing that those properties be assessed in conjunction with
this project. Carver CDA is just north of Santa Vera Drive as shown here with their frontage and
West Village Townhomes. There’s 64 units in this townhome association and their frontage is
also shown so Carver County CDA, their proposed assessment is $6,772.82 and West Village is
per unit out there of the 64, so every unit would be paying $169.40. This is about 28 percent less
than what was proposed or estimated in the feasibility study. The proposed assessments are over
8 years at 5.25 percent interest. With that if the project were to move forward we’d like to start
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the project sometime after July 6 and substantial completion would be estimated, weather
permitting end of August sometime so with that if there’s any questions regarding the project I’d
be more than happy to try to answer them but when the public hearing is called I just want to
remind everybody that prior to completion of the assessment hearing any property owner who
wants to object to their assessment must file a written objection or they waive their rights to an
appeal. Objections after the public hearing are invalid and to date the City has not received any
objections for their assessments for this project.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Thank you Mr. Oehme and I’ll remind those in the chambers as
well as at home about that deadline for filing an objection before we close the public hearing.
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Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015
First of all are there any questions for Mr. Oehme regarding this project at this time? Anyone?
Councilwoman Ryan.
Councilwoman Ryan: Mr. Oehme just to clarify, is the entire length of the trail being redone
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from 78 all the way to Powers?
Paul Oehme: So not everything. All, just for the trail improvements all we are proposing to
replace is the bituminous trail that’s out there. Everything south of Santa Vera is concrete
pavement so that section of trail is not proposed to be replaced at this time.
Councilwoman Ryan: Okay. And if there are, will you take a look at it if there are sections that
need replacing, they’ll get replaced.
Paul Oehme: Yeah, for the concrete section?
Councilwoman Ryan: Yes.
Paul Oehme: Yeah we monitor it. We’ve replaced sections of that concrete trail over time and
we’ll continue to do that and we’ll look at it again under this project too. See if it needs to be
done.
Councilwoman Ryan: Thank you. And then one more, will the only closure be when you
replace the sewer for the road closure?
Paul Oehme: Yep. So we’re anticipating when the closure would take place just for Kerber, the
sanitary sewer improvements. The rest of the work, like storm sewer improvements and milling
and the paving we’ll try to do that under traffic.
Councilwoman Ryan: Okay, thank you.
Mayor Laufenburger: When you related to Councilwoman Ryan’s question, when you detect
concrete that needs to be replaced and you do that with city staff don’t you for the most part?
Paul Oehme: Yeah.
Mayor Laufenburger: Public works staff. Unless it’s really, really a big area.
Paul Oehme: Exactly. For example in front of the library we replaced a catch basin and some
cracked up concrete there. The smaller areas the staff can handle. It’s the larger sections if it’s
you know 1,000 feet long and that’s the stuff that we’re not set up for.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Alright. Any other questions of Mr. Oehme?
Councilman McDonald: I have one Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Laufenburger: Councilman McDonald.
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Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015
Councilman McDonald: When you looked at the properties on Kerber, actually once you get
north of the CDA, all those residents really have entrances onto other streets so they’re not going
to be assessed or aren’t going to be doubled assessed.
Paul Oehme: Correct, yeah. Our standard practice for assessments are any benefiting property
owner that has direct access onto the street in question to be improved, those are the properties
that would be proposed to be assessed. Any properties that back up to it but don’t have the
driveway on Kerber Boulevard we wouldn’t assess them but when their street, when their other
street that their driveway is on comes up for rehabilitation or reconstruction, at that time we
would be proposing to assess them for that project.
Councilman McDonald: Okay thank you Mr. Oehme.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, any other questions of Mr. Oehme at this time? Alright, then at this
time I would like to open the public hearing. If there’s anybody present in the chamber that
would like to speak to this project or it’s associated assessments, now would be the time to do
that. I just simply ask that you come up to the podium and state your name and address for the
record. We’re normally very congenial with people who come to the podium so. Alright, just a
reminder before I close the public hearing that if anybody’s interested in making an objection to
the assessment you must do so before I close the public hearing. Otherwise that objection will
no longer be considered. Is that correct Mr. Oehme?
Paul Oehme: That is correct.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay there being no comments at this time I will close the public hearing
and bring it back to the council for comment or for motion. Anyone?
Councilwoman Tjornhom: I’ll make a motion.
Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you very much.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Mr. Mayor I’d like to make a motion that the City Council adopts the
attached resolution accepting the bids and awards the contract for the 2015 Street Rehabilitation
Project #15-02 to Park Construction in the amount of $998,317.80. And the City Council adopts
the assessment roll for the City Project #15-02, Kerber Boulevard Street Rehabilitation (Powers
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Boulevard to West 78 Street) and the attached resolution.
Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Councilwoman Tjornhom. Is there a second?
Councilman Campion: Second.
Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Councilman Campion. Any discussion on the motion? Paul
you’re going to be busy this summer with Carver Beach of almost, what is that?
Paul Oehme: 4 point.
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Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015
Mayor Laufenburger: 4.3 miles and this adds an additional what?
Paul Oehme: 1.4.
Mayor Laufenburger: 1.4 so obviously what will be important is the communication to citizens
related to when activity is underway and as Councilwoman Ryan asked regarding the closure,
obviously that will impact people that are in this area. We just need to do a very good job of
communicating with citizens using all the ways you have done in the past so thank you for how
you’ve done it in the past. I know you’ll do a good job this summer as well. We have a motion
and a second.
Resolution #2015-30: Councilwoman Tjornhom moved, Councilman Campion seconded
that the City Council adopts the attached resolution accepting the bids and awards the
contract for the 2015 Street Rehabilitation Project #15-02 to Park Construction in the
amount of $998,317.80. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote
of 5 to 0.
Resolution #2015-31: Councilwoman Tjornhom moved, Councilman Campion seconded
that the City Council adopts the assessment roll for the City Project #15-02, Kerber
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Boulevard Street Rehabilitation (Powers Boulevard to West 78 Street) and the attached
resolution. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you very much Mr. Oehme.
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, council. Just wanted to add that we may bring a future agenda item
back to you on this. We got such favorable bids on the trail portion that there may be some
larger sections in town that we could update and we’re going to work with the contractor over
the next month and see if they would be willing to stand behind their price for some of those
also.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. And you’re thinking of doing that to the extent that the budget
allows it, the difference between what the bids were and what’s in the CIP for that? Is that what
you’re thinking Mr. Gerhardt?
Todd Gerhardt: Correct.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, alright. Okay we look forward to that. Thank you.
CHILDREN’S LEARNING ADVENTURE, 7750 GALPIN BOULEVARD: REQUEST
FOR REZONING APPROXIMATELY 14 ACRES FROM AGRICULTURAL ESTATE
(A2) TO PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT-RESIDENTIAL (PUD-R), AND SITE PLAN
REVIEW FOR A 33,000 SQUARE FOOT CHILDCARE CENTER, APPLICANT: CLA
CHANHASSEN, LLC/OWNER: AMERICANA COMMUNITY BANK.
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Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015
Kate Aanenson: Thank you Mayor, members of the City Council. This item appeared before the
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Planning Commission on April 22. They voted 7-0 to approve it. I’ll spend a little bit more
time talking about some of the comments they had but the application is from Children's
Learning Adventure and they are proposing to do a PUD so you’ll see the ordinance also in the
packet and a site plan approval for 30,000 square foot, one story building with outdoor play area
and equipment. So the location is 7750 Galpin Boulevard. As you recall previously on this site
we had a proposal for an apartment project which you gave preliminary approval to 155 units.
We transferred the density over and as a part of that we had to do a comp plan amendment so as
a part of that comp plan amendment, besides the office we went for residential so both land uses
were in effect. This application is going for the office use and proposing a PUD as a part of that
so I’ll go through that ordinance in a little bit more detail. So again the rezoning for the 14 acres
from A2 to Agricultural Estates and then Office Institutional and then the site plan. So the PUD
ordinance as included in your packet goes to what the intent is and some of, you know some of
the concern staff raised with it is the intent of the PUD is to be that transition in sensitive areas so
we’ve got the commercial on the one side. We go back to this map. The gas station and then
we’ve got the residential homes here. We’ve also pointed out that this area to the north we
would preserve. Keep that in preserve as this project proposes too so providing that transition
and using the PUD as the tool to create that sensitive transition area. So within the PUD we
talked about, and then the uses that would be there. Always intending if this use was to go away
what other uses would go within that district so those are spelled out in the uses section and then
we also talked about what those setbacks would be from the highway. The Galpin Boulevard
and then interior lot lines. As you know there was a high tension power line along Highway 5.
That came up in the discussion with the apartments too. So then the building height, the staff
had recommended 37 feet. If we looked at what the apartment building was, that was the mid-
point of the apartment building. 37 feet. You’ll see in the staff report, excuse me, the cover
memo that went to you from updating the Planning Commission’s recommendation. We gave
you a summary of some of the other heights around that area. The Planning Commission you
know had talked about 50 but also supported looking at the 45 so this is one of the taller single
story buildings in the area. I know it was brought up that Paisley Park is tall. That’s, this
building is only 70 feet back. Paisley Park’s about 170 feet back from Highway 5 and this would
be taller even than the three story office building at Lifetime. So that was the concern that staff
had regarding the single story height and so we had recommended 37 but we would acquiesce to
the 45 that the Planning Commission set kind of for you to visit you know as a potential so the
applicant has shown a 45 on that too. Again looking at the purpose of the PUD and that
transition and then we’ll talk a little bit more about some of the, that higher part where it has the
lighting. Again the material and designs meets the city ordinance and then we’ll talk a little bit
about access in a minute. So this is the site plan itself. So if you look at this area here, this is the
taller part of the building. One of the concerns that the staff had was regarding, even if you look
at the gas station lights that are 30 feet, this is high. There’s no specificity regarding
illumination. How long it will be lit. Again this would be the lightest thing going down
Highway 5 so that was just some of our concerns and that still hasn’t been addressed as far as the
limitations of that. I mean that’s lit all the time and what the lum’s. We did amend our
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ordinance because we did have some problems with some of those businesses, even on West 78
that had very bright neon that we received complaints from neighbors on that so we just want to
make sure that that doesn’t become a neighborhood concern or for some maybe the people that
live behind won’t notice it but people across the way may become an issue. So with the site
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Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015
itself they meet all the setback requirements. You have the outdoor space that go with the
facility. Again the daycare and then they do have potential for, so this is Galpin. This is West
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78 Street. Main access coming in off of West 78 Street. And then potential for another
building out front here under the PUD you could put another building on there so that is
additional potential. And this is another drawing of the, another illustration of the site plan itself.
Kind of more from a western perspective. So again here’s the parapet at 50 feet and it’s again
staff is recommending the less than that and then different heights of the building. Again this is
a one story building. It’s probably the tallest one story building we have in the community of
that type that’s non-commercial. I mean that’s not industrial. So here’s the 50 foot illustrative.
So this is the area where the lights would be in this, it’s hard to see my little red dot there. That
middle round part rotunda where we don’t have a lot of specifics on again. The illumination.
Hours of illumination and that again just want to make sure that we address that so it doesn’t
become a problem later. Or put conditions and such so here would be at the 45 feet. Again one
of the taller ones we would have. So here’s materials and colors. Again it meets the city
ordinance on that. As you can see from the drawings previously those colors. Articulated
building with fenestration. Windows and then again articulation. Some more details on the site
plan itself. You can see more clearly this lot to the north. And that would come in at a future
date. Again access coming in off of Galpin. They did do a traffic study on that and one of the
concerns that the staff had originally would be the right turn movement. The free right coming
out and then people being able to take this left turn in. That was very important to them. They
worked with the County. They do need a County permit on that. It’s our understanding the
County working through the designs of that would be amenable to that creating for the
circulation for the site. There is, it does meet the parking standards, which is about 100, just
slightly over. 96 was required and they’re slightly over that over 100 so it meets all the parking
requirements but again the front door’s on this side so, because they’ve got the fence so you’re
coming around to the front of the building so we were just, obviously they’ve done this before
but it’s a lot of circulation around that side of the building with that many students in the
building. That was our first shock when we saw that they could get up to 300 students which is
the size of an elementary so we were concerned about some of the U-turn movements up there
which are going to continue to be. That has been a concern of the neighbors up there too so we
do anticipate that there still may be some of those people that do the U-turn that want to go back
out but with the right turn out it hopefully would eliminate some of those unless you want to,
depending on the direction you want to go. Again this is kind of a summary of the street access
which I just talked about. I think it was more helpful with looking at the site plan but the traffic
summary is in your staff report and I don’t know if the City Engineer had any additional
comments he wanted to add to the traffic study. Unless you had questions on that. I think at this
point we believe that based on what they’ve told us that they can accommodate that. Again it’s a
pretty large amount of trips going in and out. Showed the grading plan. They’re managing the
stormwater on site. Again the area to the north will be preserved. That was part of giving for the
PUD. There’ll be no development on that north side. Again that was one of the neighbor’s
concerns even with the apartment buildings so they’re managing their stormwater on site.
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Utilities are to on West 78 so it’s easily serviceable. Landscaping plan, there was a few tweaks
to that but that does meet the city ordinance. So with that we would recommend approval of the
PUD ordinance with the change that came out in your staff report. We would recommend that
you go to the 45 foot as opposed to in the PUD where it states the 50 foot. I’d be happy to
answer any questions that you may have.
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Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, thank you Ms. Aanenson. Just one clarification. This is an
application for PUD.
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct.
Mayor Laufenburger: This is not a concept PUD.
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct.
Mayor Laufenburger: This applicant is coming forward with very specifics on what he would
like to do, is that correct?
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. So this is a PUD process and it’s very appropriate for us at this
time to approve or disprove the PUD.
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, alright. Any questions before I ask if the applicant has any
comments. Are there any questions for staff? Councilwoman Tjornhom.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: When I look at the drawing I guess and I read what’s been written
about the parapet. I’m trying to understand what’s, you know between 45 feet or 50 feet, what’s
really going to make the difference. Aesthetically do you think it’s going to look better? And so
it just a height thing because it’s just a height thing or?
Kate Aanenson: I think the height thing with the lights and that gives them a lot of visual
impact. So the bigger it is with the lights in there gives them visual impact from a greater
distance and our point is when it went to Planning Commission, why we recommended the 37
feet is this is a transition. You know with the lights in there is a big visual impact along
Highway 5 so our first recommendation was 37 feet. The neighbors at the public hearing, I
wasn’t at the public. Based on the Minutes and on staff that the neighbors supported the 50 feet
but my point is, if we’re going to do other projects along this corridor, what’s the precedent now
you know because we’ve had light complaints in the past.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: So but you’re not necessarily concerned about the neighbors. You’re
just, you’re just thinking of.
Kate Aanenson: Yes I am thinking, I’m thinking of the neighbors. I’m thinking of the general
area. When you have something that tall, I mean it’s a one story building that’s taller than
Lifetime in that core area. Which really has no use except for illumination.
Mayor Laufenburger: Visual presentation.
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Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015
Kate Aanenson: Visual presentation.
Mayor Laufenburger: Right.
Kate Aanenson: It’s not a functional part of the building. It’s not a elevator shaft or church
steeple or something like that.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: And that’s why I guess I’m trying to wrap my mind around what’s
the difference between 45 feet and 50 if it’s lit up anyway?
Kate Aanenson: I would agree with you. Well that’s what I’m saying. Part of it is.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Well I’m sorry. I’m being honest.
Kate Aanenson: Well I guess, well that’s what we said. Our original staff position was 37 feet.
The Planning Commission wanted 50 and asked the council to maybe consider the 45. Our
original position was 75 it didn’t need to be that much taller. Again it’s for illumination.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Thank you.
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, council.
Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Gerhardt.
Todd Gerhardt: The applicant is, I don’t know if they’re intentionally doing this but staff is
looking at it as that they’re incorporating a monument sign within their building is the way we’re
interpreting it and if you want to put a monument sign in we have conditions for that so this way
they are taking the structure itself and implementing the monument sign into the building. And
the difference between 50 and 45 I guess is 5 feet according to the City Attorney.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: I know. I know. I didn’t want to say that.
Mayor Laufenburger: Is it, did we get confirmation from Mr. Knutson on that?
Todd Gerhardt: Yes.
Roger Knutson: I checked the math Mayor.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, thank you.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Listen we just had a $9 million street project.
Mayor Laufenburger: No $900 million dollars.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: He said $900 million.
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Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015
Todd Gerhardt: What’s a few zeros amongst friends?
Mayor Laufenburger: I expect though when we have, and I’ll give the applicant an opportunity
to speak if they’re present tonight and he or she may want to talk a little bit about that. Okay,
any other questions for staff?
Councilwoman Ryan: Mayor.
Mayor Laufenburger: Councilwoman Ryan.
Councilwoman Ryan: You referenced the ordinances that you changed before with some of the
other lighting. Was it the signs? Was it lighting their structures?
Kate Aanenson: It was on the NIT levels on LED lighting so it was really, really bright. We had
a couple signs that were, used that technology so what I’m saying in here is we don’t have
specifics on the technology. How long it’s going to be lit? Is it lit 24 hours a day? How bright
is in the intensity? I just want to go on the record if this comes out bright. We don’t have a
sense, this will be a case study right here.
Councilwoman Ryan: So this would be our opportunity to define exactly.
Kate Aanenson: That’s my point because you’re putting together the ordinance.
Councilwoman Ryan: Okay.
Kate Aanenson: Thank you.
Councilwoman Ryan: And then in terms of when I was looking through this, traffic is one of my
bigger concerns when I look through this project and I know that it was also for when it went
before the Planning Commission. How closely will we be able to work with Carver County on
that whole intersection? I mean I do look at, like you said 300 students and families driving in. I
look at the new Bentz Farm. Just the continued growth on the north side of 5 along Galpin, that
intersection I know we recently made some changes just for pedestrian crossing and it’s a busy
intersection for cars. U turns, etcetera and that’s probably my biggest. A few other things but
my biggest concern is what’s going to be done to that intersection and what influence do we have
or how can we impact that?
Paul Oehme: Sure. Thank you Mayor, City Council member Ryan. You know we did take a
traffic. We did have the developer draft a traffic study and looked at impacts for the intersection
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along 78 Street and Galpin and you know there are, there is some increase in the traffic within
the intersection and we are estimating about 3 times as many U turns potentially as there are
today on Galpin. However you know based upon the traffic study that we looked at, you know
it’s within standard traffic engineering guidelines basically. The level of service at that
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intersection is not anticipated to change. The level of service along, on 78 Street is not
anticipated to change with this development so you know the Carver County has looked at the
traffic study. We’ve looked at it. When the apartment complex that was previously proposed for
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Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015
this site we looked at that intersection again with that development as well. That had a lot more
impacts than what we’re seeing here tonight so we’ll be monitoring that intersection and we, like
you had indicated, we did make some pedestrian modifications to that intersection but moving
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forward as growth does take place within, along 78 Street or Galpin we will make changes as
necessary. You know it’s right now a two way stop along the minor approaches. Maybe in the
future we’ll have to look at some other improvements in that intersection. You know we’ve
talked with Carver County about roundabouts potentially in the future when traffic warrants it so
I think that would definitely help the U turn issue that we might be seeing.
Councilwoman Ryan: Because you couldn’t have a 4 way stop that close to a stop light.
Paul Oehme: Right.
Councilwoman Ryan: The intersection of 5.
Paul Oehme: Yeah it’s very difficult because the queuing potentially would impact the
operations of an intersection at Highway 5 so roundabouts have been talked about so I think
there are some tools that we can look at in the future if traffic were to become an issue and
accidents were to be you know prevalent at that intersection.
Councilwoman Ryan: And that’s what warrants a change is accidents? Is that how you monitor
it?
Paul Oehme: We monitor it not just with accidents. We monitor it with growth and traffic. We
monitor it with back up’s in the intersection. How much time delays are at the intersection.
How much pedestrian we’re seeing at those intersections. All those type of baselines and type of
data we look at potentially requests or make modifications to those intersections.
Councilwoman Ryan: And just so I’m clear on my concern is because of the timing. If you look
at the timing of the drop off, I know the applicant has said that there’s some variation but it’s still
going to be a window of 6:30 to 8:30 and you’re pulling from all those homes that are going to
Bluff Creek Elementary School and so they’re all going to be coming in at that same time and so
again I just want to express my concern with that piece so as long as we’re watching over it.
Paul Oehme: Yep, we’re going to be monitoring it especially when it opens up in 2016-2017 so
then we’ll see how it goes.
Councilwoman Ryan: Okay. And then in terms of different lighting, not the rotunda lighting but
in terms of the lighting for the parking lot, sensitivity to the neighbors in Vasserman Ridge and
that area. What are the City’s expectations for the lighting and the parking lot?
Kate Aanenson: They’ll have to submit a lighting plan because they foot candles that can’t go
over the property lines and they have to be downcast so they’ll have to submit a, I’m not sure if
that was part of the package but before we’d issue permits on that, that they would meet the
City’s ordinance on that.
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Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015
Councilwoman Ryan: Okay. And then my last question for you right now is the, on page, well
let me look here. It was on 237 of our report. It was that compliance table. Could you explain
the hard surface coverage? The different, the 42 percent versus the 65 percent?
Kate Aanenson: 65 is for the whole 14 acres so because they’re doing a PUD they’re able to use
that property on the north side so, so it gives them more opportunity to put more hard cover on
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the south side of West 78 because they’re keeping the north side green.
Councilwoman Ryan: And how does that impact then water management and runoff?
Kate Aanenson: Yep, they still have to accommodate that. That doesn’t change at all and that’s
what the stormwater ponds are. I’m sorry I’m going the wrong way. The storm water ponds that
are accommodating the runoff and any additional building that would be on there would still
have to be calculated for. They still have to manage quantity and quality and so that’s how that’s
being treated now and the property to the north is just for their hard cover. Not the stormwater
so there’s the ponding that they have to hold rate and volume and the other factor is how much
hard cover can they have.
Councilwoman Ryan: Okay. And I actually have one more question, sorry.
Kate Aanenson: Sure.
Councilwoman Ryan: You mentioned it and it was another thing that I was curious about you
know and I’ll ask the applicant as well but that Parcel A. And I know we say that it’s going to be
preserved. They say it’s going to be preserved. Do we ask to have it dedicated to the City or
what has the conversations been?
Kate Aanenson: Yeah if you look in the ordinance.
Mayor Laufenburger: Kate are you able to find that quickly?
Kate Aanenson: No I’m not.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay.
Kate Aanenson: I have it highlighted. I need to look at it.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Councilwoman Ryan, let’s just hold that and we’ll see.
Councilwoman Ryan: We can come back to that.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, thank you very much. Any other questions for staff? Alright at
this time I would like to, if the applicant is present I’d like the applicant to join us. Is the
applicant present? Would you just step up to the microphone. Tell us your name, your address
and, okay.
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Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015
Mike Clements: Certainly, my name is Mike Clements. I’m from Chandler, Arizona and I’m
here with Children's Learning Adventure.
Mayor Laufenburger: Great, nice to have you up here from the beautiful metropolitan area of
Phoenix so you said it’s Mike Clemmons, is that right?
Mike Clements: Clements. C-l-e-m-e-n-t-s.
Mayor Laufenburger: Clements, okay. Mike, tell us a little bit about Children's Learning
Adventure and what has your interest in coming to Chanhassen.
Mike Clements: Well in the past, I’m going to hand one of these books out going this direction
and I need one of them back to give to Larry Warner when we’re done so that he can show the
homeowners association. These are photographs.
Mayor Laufenburger: Did you mean Larry Martin?
Mike Clements: Larry Martin, I’m sorry.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Alright.
Mike Clements: These are the actual, these are actual photographs of Children's Learning
Adventure centers that we have across the United States so we’ll use these to illustrate a couple
of items and then if you ever met me for a bagel and a coffee I’d get 15 napkins and scribble all
my thoughts because I can’t talk with out that so in a minute I’m going to have to steal one of
Kate’s pens and draw a few things because I will explain it better if I can do that.
Mayor Laufenburger: Sure. Just a reminder, you may have learned this from the Planning
Commission but there’s a camera right above you and it’s not focused on your head. It’s focused
on that. There we go.
Mike Clements: Okay. So this is the front façade of one of our Children's Learning Adventures
and as you can see this is a sign on the inside. It’s not a sign. It’s part of the artwork and I’ll
show you that when we get to the interior. It’s under cover so that we’re not, I don’t want to be
perceived as trying to fool anybody that that is not in the interior of this building area. I don’t
want to try to fool anybody that that is not illuminated so we’ll come back to that any time you
want. I’m going to run through a few of these pictures really fast. You can stop me.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, just a moment Mr. Clements. Nann, are you able to display these
for our audience at home? Is that correct? Okay, thank you very much.
Mike Clements: Okay. Stop me anywhere you’d like me to ask questions. The pages are
numbered in the bottom right hand corner and we can always come back to those for reference
later. So we’ll skip the summary and there’s some information in here about Children's Learning
Adventure that you’re not going to be able to see on the screen. Be happy to leave that book
with you. This is Cinco Ranch in Texas. This is the grand opening morning at Cinco Ranch and
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Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015
this picture is absolutely consistent with every grand opening we’ve had in the last 4 or 5 years.
In fact in Gilbert, Arizona which is the suburb next to where I live in Chandler, Arizona we had
1,230 or 1,250 people show up last Saturday morning to tour and sign up for our grand opening.
As you can see and one of the things we’ll come back to, if you’ll notice the back of the building
here we have a top of the parapet. It’s fairly low. It pops up on the front façade and then we’ll
come back to that so we can reference this picture which is page number 6 if we have questions
on the elevations. When you walk into the interior, when you walk into the rotunda feature that
we have which is a big, we’ll have a lot of discussion over this. That’s the element of the
building that’s 50 feet tall. We want to be really clear. The entirety of the building is not 50
feet. The rotunda is 50 feet. The entry feature represents 17 percent of the front elevation. It
represents 8 percent of the total building elevation so we’re not talking about a 50 foot building.
We’re talking about 8 percent of the entirety of the building is 50 feet tall. I supplied to staff,
and I don’t know if they’re in the city packages or not. I’ve been on the road for a week and so
normally staff mailed me the staff report last time but I physically don’t have it. We may have to
refer back to it. We did a calculation showing the average elevation, average height of every
elevation. It was supplied along with the two, the 45 foot and the 50 foot elevation Bob that had
requested. So inside you’ll see that in the after school area we have amenities such as the dance
studio. We have a music room where we teach music. We have a dance studio, the classical
dance studio. It can also be used for Yoga. We have a bowling lane. It is a real honest to
goodness Brunswick bowling lane. We have a cooking school, and a lot of times people say well
gee that’s a lot of classroom to dedicate for baking chocolate chip cookies but if you think about
it from a curriculum standpoint cooking is counting and measuring and scheduling and it’s a lot
more than baking cookies. You can use that to teach a lot of great things and have fun. In the
after school area you’ll notice a theme in some of this in the after school area where we have a
lot of venues for public speaking because for example if you can’t stand up in front of council
and have a conversation like this, you may be limited in what you can achieve in life, and getting
your point across is important so we start young. There is an indoor multi-purpose basketball
court. Indoor court so it can be used when the after school kids aren’t there, it can be used by the
little guys. When the kids come after school when they’re either dropped off by the parents but
probably picked up by our buses, they can come into the after school study area and log on to
these hatch tablets and do their homework if we’re tied into the school systems. This is the
theater in the after school area. This is for the younger kids. This is a television studio that
doubles as a multi-purpose room and the idea is, again public speaking. If they can do it when
they’re 4 without necessarily being cutesy but learning how to public speak and put forth
presentation, then they get to be pretty good at it by the time they’re farther along. This is the
math and science lab. The solar system is shown here. It’s built into the ceiling. It drops down
and everything is internally illuminated so the sun and stars. The sun, the moon. The whole 9
yards. The art studio is designed and geared for kids from 2 and 3 years old all the way to the
after school aged children. This is the reading reef. It’s the library and it’s a place to go for
quiet time. One of the things that we do, and I’ll interrupt myself and say this here. Most
daycare operators take the children into a room. They let them leave to go out and play a little
bit and then they bring them back into that room. If they have after schoolers they bring a 10
year old from the grade school and they put them in that room when the little kids have gone
home. The last thing that a 10 year old wants to do is be stuck in a room that has a foosball table
rolled into a 2 year old room so you’ll notice as we go through some of this we, and I’ll explain
how we rotate the children throughout during the day so that number one, they stay focused on
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Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015
learning. The curriculum stays fun. You don’t have discipline problems and that is how we
operate. This is a segregated playground. It’s right inside. When you walk in the rotunda it’s
immediately on the other side of the rotunda and this is Imagination Island. It’s a little city. It’s
Chanhassen in miniature. It’s a fire department and police department. A bakery and City Hall.
And this is really designed so that the really little guys have a place to play and they don’t get
run over by the older children. That’s what that’s for. This is a picture of our infant rooms. This
is an, and then these progressively get older so these are 1 year olds. These are 3 year olds.
There’s the 1 and 2 year olds in the prior. This is the outdoor area of Cinco Ranch just to show
you what we build on the outside. All of the exterior playground is rubberized playground
material just like you’d put in your city parks. The idea is there are no muddy holes to come
home and explain to mom that you were playing in the mud. There’s no dragging mud through
the interior of our space. We have a baseball diamond, and I know that the Chanhassen site here
has plenty of room for these so what you’re going to see is a baseball diamond. A soccer field.
A basketball field. A tennis court as well as the playground equipment with the shade structures
for the larger, the older children and then the younger children. This picture is for the older
children. This I believe is for the smaller children. This is security at the front door. We require
that every parent, unlike the grade school where grade schools have queuing and you can pull in
and sort of tell the kids to tuck and roll and you throw them out as you’re driving along. You
physically have to park. Bring your child in and sign them in. You have to physically park. Go
in. Sign your child out. We are very big on security and we’re very big on risk mitigation.
These are a photograph of the hatch tablets in the library. They can take proprietary software
and they also can tie into the school system. So that in a nutshell is, there’s more information in
there. I’ll leave one of those with you. I do need to take one home and I do need to leave one
with Larry. Any questions?
Mayor Laufenburger: Anything else you wanted to say or would you stand for some questions
Mr. Clements?
Mike Clements: I’m fine.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Any, thank you very much for that presentation. Can you just
clarify for us, how many CLA, may I call them CLA? Okay. How many CLA’s do you have
currently in place in the country right now?
Mike Clements: I’m going to ballpark and I’m not being evasive. I’m just, we’re moving fairly
rapidly.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay.
Mike Clements: We have approximately 20 to 25 open. We have 20 to 25 under development
and we probably have 75 that we’re working on for real estate acquisitions.
Mayor Laufenburger: And where would you classify the Chanhassen? In the second group on
development or in real estate acquisition?
Mike Clements: I’d say, they’re clearly not open. I would say acquisition, pre-development.
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Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Alright.
Mike Clements: So you’re in that group of 100 that.
Mayor Laufenburger: Not yet in place.
Mike Clements: Right, and when I say 25 I mean 25 CD’s in for, construction documents in for
building permits or handing the keys to the operations people.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. And of those that you have in place that are operating right now
Mr. Clements, what’s the oldest or the, what has been in place the longest?
Mike Clements: Okay let me give you a little bit of history of CLA and that’ll encompass that.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay.
Mike Clements: We’ve been in the daycare business for about 15 years. Maybe 20. We’re a
private owned company owned by a brother and a sister. We were one of the largest Tutor Time
franchisees in the United States. We were probably the largest by volume in any given store. I
don’t have factual data but I can tell you that we were very good operators. We sold that
business back to the franchisor.
Mayor Laufenburger: So the Tutor Time products that the brother/sister operated sold back to
the franchisee? Or franchisor?
Mike Clements: We were the franchisee, correct.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, alright.
Mike Clements: We wanted to, our Tutor Time’s just kept getting nicer and nicer and nicer and
the franchisor kept saying that’s not the standard, but it filled the building and the parents liked it
and the kids liked it and so what we did is we made a strategic decision to sell that business back
to the franchisor and start from scratch our own brand. And these were ideas that Rick and
Cheryl had, that had been gelling and improving over about a 15 year period so you’ll notice if
you look at our web page you’ll see some older buildings that quite frankly aren’t as nice as this.
Those were properties that we owned when we sold the franchise. Sold the Tutor Time’s back
but they didn’t buy our real estate so as we started evolving through, you’ll notice in Nevada and
Arizona particularly you’ll see the older buildings and then in Texas and Georgia, Colorado
you’ll see the newer buildings. So Chanhassen, so we’re about 6 years into this evolution of
CLA from scratch.
Mayor Laufenburger: So the Tutor Time’s were sold back to the franchisor about 6 or 7 years
ago?
Mike Clements: Correct.
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Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015
Mayor Laufenburger: Is that right? And so what CLA is really, it’s the high end Tutor Time that
Rick and Cheryl wanted to product. Tutor Time wouldn’t allow them because they weren’t
matching so they decided, we think that Tutor Time, a better Tutor Time. There’s room for a
better Tutor Time.
Mike Clements: Clearly.
Mayor Laufenburger: Say that 3 times. So okay. And where are Rick and Cheryl located?
Mike Clements: We’re all in Phoenix, Arizona.
Mayor Laufenburger: All in Phoenix, okay. Alright. Let’s see. And a reference was made to
when you would likely open. Assuming you were to receive the approval tonight, when do you
see ground breaking and when do you see grand opening of that beautiful 1,250 people showing
up like you did in Cady, Texas.
Mike Clements: Well there were 1,198 in Texas and 1,200 in Gilbert so good numbers and we’ll
have hopefully more than that here.
Mayor Laufenburger: We’d like to set a record.
Mike Clements: Well we’d like to help you. Okay to answer your question, a summary version
of that is, we have a kick off meeting for our building construction documents last week. With
me is Alan Catchpool with our civil engineering firm. He’s here from Minneapolis. CEI
Engineering and we’ve had the kick off meeting for the construction documents meaning
blueprints and our plans are 3 times as thick as everybody else’s as you can imagine because the
finishes are higher end and the complexity of daycare is just more than complexity of a retail
building.
Mayor Laufenburger: So you’ll break ground when?
Mike Clements: As soon as we can get a permit. So I suspect we’re 60 days to draw plans and
we’re probably in the city of Chanhassen 60 days to get a permit so snow and weather permitting
we’d like to start this year and open next year.
Mayor Laufenburger: Next calendar year or next to beginning of next school year?
Mike Clements: I believe if we were a year from today we’d be about, that would be a little
optimistic by a couple of months. It takes about 10 to 11 months to build. Completely build and
hand over so.
Mayor Laufenburger: But I’m sure your marketing program would be that you would want to
take advantage of those families that are making decisions about where they send their kids
beginning in like August-September timeframe I’m sure.
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Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015
Mike Clements: That’s correct. It is not optimal to open in January.
Mayor Laufenburger: Not in Minnesota in January, that’s right. Okay, let’s see. Council any
questions of the applicant?
Councilman Campion: I would like to hear more about the parapet and lighting plans.
Mayor Laufenburger: So let’s speak to the parapet. The height of that parapet.
Mike Clements: Okay. I did a little bit of, I’m going to move this. I had previously provided
staff a spread sheet showing the differences in the building heights between the 45 foot and the
50 foot. This is a drawing, this may be a little tight here. These are the drawings for the
apartments that were, and I’m using this for reference only. Just to paint a mental picture of 45
and 50 feet. This is the apartment complex that was approved previously and it has a peak height
on the roof of 47 feet. Midway, and this is.
Mayor Laufenburger: Wait a minute, you’re looking for approval tonight and you don’t have a
pen with you Mr. Clements?
Mike Clements: Well I almost took the one from Starbuck’s but I gave it back. I just couldn’t
steal a pen.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay.
Mike Clements: Okay. So the peak height here is 47, I’m sorry. The peak height here is 47 feet
plus or minus. The average height that staff is referencing, 37 feet which is right here, is half
way through the peak, and I’ll come back to that in a minute. So these were the elevations for
the apartment complex. As you can recall it was a backward shaped C and there were literally
10 elevations to that building. So there were 10 different heights and as you’ll notice this is all
47 feet and then it drops down here. There’s not a height specified but it’s somewhere between
37 and 47 so split the difference for grins but as you can see there’s not much of it that drops
down. There are very few places. You have it here, here, here, here, and a couple, probably.
Mayor Laufenburger: Your point is that this is consistently at that level, is that what you’re
saying Mr. Clements?
Mike Clements: Correct.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay.
Mike Clements: So what I did today, and was I ask our architect to take those drawings that I
just showed you and overlay our elevation at 50 feet. Meaning the 50 foot rotunda over the top
of this and she gray scaled it. Their building behind our building and what she did was their
finish floor elevation here and our finish floor elevation here are identical so that the starting
point is the same. What you see below this here is the ground tapering off so what I did is, when
I was, left the airport and I was headed here this evening I took a Sharpie and tried to help to
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Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015
make that a little more visible. I don’t know if that is but I tried to make that a little more clear
of what our building overlaid against their building would be. So if we go to this bottom corner
and we look, this is the height of the apartment building. It had a 30 foot 8 inch, so 30 foot and
two-thirds of a foot plate height. It had a 47 foot peak height and it had an average height of 37
½ feet but clearly as you can see this distance here is not see through. There’s another 7 feet of
roof that exists over most of the building. I wrote 100 percent but as I got back, I looked at it
later and I went nah, it’s probably 83 percent. Here’s what we are. Here’s at our 50 foot height
what our building looks like. It articulates quite a bit. It’s 28 feet next to the rotunda. It’s 39
feet direct on this sign band here and then it pops up to 50 feet. Excuse me, pops up to 50 feet
here from 28 feet here and our height, mid-height if we’re making a direct comparison is 39 ¼
feet. Now that’s for 8 percent of the total building elevation. We take the position that if you
push the building down on the front elevation, we can take 5 feet out of the bread. Turn that loaf
of bread sideways. Pull out a slice and drop it down. You run the risk, this is a big building.
We have lots of kids that will be in here. You run the risk when you compress this down of
having a, in Planning Commission one of the members said this is going to look like a, it was
either a strip building or an industrial building. We’ve gone to great pains to try to create as
much articulation as we can because the building is large. That offsets the height and it really is
very minimal.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Mr. Clements can you, or better yet Kate, can you tell me the
frontage of CLA is planned to be what distance from Highway 5?
Kate Aanenson: 50 feet. Excuse me, 70 feet. That’s what the ordinance says.
Mayor Laufenburger: What distance was the C-shaped apartments scheduled to be from
Highway 5?
Kate Aanenson: They were set back further than that. I don’t have that in front of me right now
but it was set back a little further.
Mayor Laufenburger: 100 feet?
Kate Aanenson: But I think the point is what I’m trying to make is, you’re looking at a roof line
versus illuminated signage. That’s the point I’m trying to make.
Mayor Laufenburger: Right. Yep.
Kate Aanenson: It’s not just the roof line. It’s what illuminated behind it with the sign and other
signs on top of the building.
Mayor Laufenburger: We get that.
Kate Aanenson: So yeah.
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Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015
Mayor Laufenburger: We get that. Mr. Clements, by the way all of us have the benefit of seeing
the Planning Commission report. We read the verbatim Minutes so just keep that in mind as you
think about saying things to us because we may have heard it already, okay?
Mike Clements: Okay.
Mayor Laufenburger: I think I read Mr. Clements that you would accept or that you could build
45 feet parapet. You could accept that, is that true?
Mike Clements: We could do that. We.
Mayor Laufenburger: You prefer not to obviously.
Mike Clements: Prefer not to but.
Mayor Laufenburger: Because your, the appearance or the standard that you have in your other
locations essentially replicate this. And by the way I think this is attractive but to Mr. Campion’s
second question, how are you going to light it?
Mike Clements: I’m going to sound evasive and I don’t intend to be. The lighting in the, the
lighting on this project will be absolutely compliant with Chanhassen code. We want to use, we
want to gravitate towards LED because of the efficiency of LED. Incandescent bulbs are
extremely energy hogs. We’re moving towards LED. We can design that to be consistent with
what you desire and I’m the wrong person. I truly did not expect that question tonight but we’ll
meet what you need and not, with no issues. But we do want to go towards more modern
lighting which is LED and we do want to go to more efficient lighting. We’re talking about
exterior building lighting correct?
Mayor Laufenburger: Right.
Mike Clements: Yes.
Councilman Campion: And just a follow up.
Mayor Laufenburger: Go ahead.
Councilman Campion: If I could. So is there a signage or lighting plan on the parapet? I mean I
saw on the other drawings that there was no signage on the parapet or.
Mike Clements: There was in the other, we had provided them previously. There will be
signage. Our intent would be to put signage on the parapets in these locations with the
descriptors of, and I’m drawing it wrong but with the descriptors of what’s inside consistent with
the photographs that are shown in the book.
Kate Aanenson: Can I just ask a question? Is there a sign inside that, where you plan on lighting
up the 17 percent?
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Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015
Mike Clements: If you go to page.
Kate Aanenson: It’s on your cover.
Mike Clements: If you go to page 7, and you’ll have to flip back and forth.
Kate Aanenson: Can you put that on the camera please?
Mike Clements: I’m sorry.
Kate Aanenson: That’s inside the illuminated part.
Mike Clements: Right. That’s 20 feet. The rotunda is a 40 foot circle. This is 20, located 20
feet inside of that rotunda and it is integral to, it sits right above the entry feature so let me see if
I can find a photograph of that. It is visible from the outside of the building. You can see it here.
Kate Aanenson: While he’s looking at that. We do have an ordinance restricting how much of
the fascia you can put, what percentage you can do based on wall area. I’m not sure that that was
calculated for this but that also would fall into the, that lit area for the center part too.
Mike Clements: The best picture that I have for you is on page 7. The, yeah that’s the best
picture that I have. That’s directly over the sign in counter and it’s in every one of our buildings.
It’s that sense of arrival entry feature.
Mayor Laufenburger: That’s the primary front entrance to the facility.
Mike Clements: Correct. That’s correct.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, just a second Councilwoman Tjornhom. Did you get your?
Councilman Campion: My questions were answered.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, thank you. Councilwoman Tjornhom.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Okay so if I’m going the right direction with this then I’m guessing
that the concern is that sign that says Adventure is going to be lit brightly and will be used as
kind of not an outside signage or lighting but an interior one that people will see from the
outside, if you’re following me.
Mike Clements: Correct.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: And what are the hours for that? Is that going to be lit all night long?
Is that?
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Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015
Mike Clements: I believe these signs operate until 11:00 or 12:00 at night. The interior’s, but
the interior is illuminated all night from a security standpoint. We don’t turn the lights out. We
turn them down.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Okay.
Kate Aanenson: That’s what my question was and that was the first time I’m hearing this but
we’ve raised it from the beginning that there’s some ambiguity there and that’s something we
would want to put into the PUD ordinance so there’s a clear understanding of, on both parties
what the expectation is.
Mayor Laufenburger: So I think Mr. Clements your answer said you believe they turn down at
11:00 but if the City of Chanhassen in our PUD ordinance said we want those lights dimmed at
9:57 and we want them turned up at 5:55, you have the technology to accommodate something
like that, is that correct?
Mike Clements: We could.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Alright.
Councilman Campion: But that sign would be visible from Highway 5.
Mike Clements: Sure.
Councilman Campion: Not the neighborhood behind.
Mike Clements: Correct. It’s.
Mayor Laufenburger: And my guess is that that sign would be visible only during dark hours. I
mean it’s really not going to be visible during the day because sunlight would probably wash out
that light.
Kate Aanenson: Can I ask too, the other signs are back lit I’m guessing too? Your other signs
that are on the, that you drew on the fascia.
Mike Clements: Correct.
Kate Aanenson: Those would also be back lit too, correct?
Mike Clements: Internally illuminated, correct.
Kate Aanenson: Yes, so those would also be illuminated all night. I’m just saying you get up
higher. You’re getting signs up higher than you would get in a normal office/industrial building.
That was my point.
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Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015
Councilwoman Tjornhom: And do we have a lot of buildings in town that have that where the
signs are right on the building and lit? At such a height or I mean I’m trying to think of an
example of how it works for us now in town.
Mayor Laufenburger: Park Nicollet.
Councilman Campion: Or Byerly’s.
Councilwoman Ryan: Yeah Target even.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: But those are lower I mean.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah they’re not quite that high.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: And they’re downtown more.
Mike Clements: The signs on the exterior of the building are probably no higher, if my parapet
height total is a 34 foot average, they’re probably not higher than you would find on a Byerly’s
or a Target. I’m thinking out loud here because a Target is a tall building and if our average
parapet is 34 feet and you’re below that on the decorative sign bands you might be at the top 30
feet which means you’re going to be somewhere in that range which wouldn’t be terribly
different than a Target Pharmacy descriptor or the Target logo.
Mayor Laufenburger: Councilwoman Tjornhom yep.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: And this building would not be considered the downtown business
district, correct?
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: And so do we have different ordinances for signage?
Kate Aanenson: No.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: And lighting.
Kate Aanenson: No. They’d be the same. I just don’t feel like we have enough information and
to compare it to other ones to put that into the PUD ordinance, the signage.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Because I mean is that the main concern is the signage and the
lights?
Kate Aanenson: Right. Yeah to say, we do have a regulation on NIT’s. I mean we don’t have
anything out there at the LED. Anything out on this part of the city that would be similar to that
so.
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Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015
Mayor Laufenburger: I think that expressing my concern about lighting. I would be much more
concerned about the lighting that would be visible and potential intrusive to the people who live
in Vasserman Ridge and Bentz Farm. That would be much greater concern for me. That’s not to
say that I wouldn’t want a, I wouldn’t want the building to glare as people drive by, and face it
people who drive by over a period of time, they will become immune to the brightness of that
building over time but nevertheless I think it’s appropriate for us to have in the ordinance
something that identifies acceptable times of day when the brightest display would be present
and then turn down during other times. I just think that makes sense for the character of the city.
And if I’m understanding you correctly Mr. Clements that’s something that your technology and
your lighting could accommodate.
Mike Clements: Certainly.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Go ahead Councilwoman Tjornhom.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: One more question.
Mayor Laufenburger: That’s quite alright.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Because Kate you had said that another concern of your’s is setting a
precedence for future developments that could be coming in.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Is that something that needs to be addressed so it’s all…same page.
Kate Aanenson: In my opinion. I’m just saying in my opinion that the, the biggest parapet out
there with the sign is intended to be a sign without being counted towards a sign. So then you’ve
got all the other lighting on top of that and I’m just saying it’s double dipping there and with
very brightly lit.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: And you know I appreciate, I mean you saying.
Kate Aanenson: Well I just don’t want somebody to come back later and say how did this
happen. I just want to make sure that we’re transparently explaining to you this is what you
know is potential.
Mayor Laufenburger: It wouldn’t be the only building that is a sign in Chanhassen. Certainly
Park Nicollet.
Kate Aanenson: Absolutely.
Mayor Laufenburger: It’s building that has a sign.
Kate Aanenson: Yes. As does Lifetime. Which is back lit. Which is back lit, correct.
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Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015
Mayor Laufenburger: And so there are others that are present but that doesn’t necessarily give
us carte blanche to say anybody who wants to do it can do it.
Kate Aanenson: Well nobody has.
Mayor Laufenburger: We deal with these PUD’s individual, correct?
Kate Aanenson: Correct.
Mike Clements: Do you have in your package a copy of the floor plan?
Kate Aanenson: Yes.
Mike Clements: Can I see that? So if you, let me find the floor plan. Okay. In your packet you
have a floor plan, page A-1. And let me make sure I get that. Okay. So I want to be clear that
the rotunda is not intended to hide a sign or in and of itself sneak a sign through. When you look
at the rotunda this is, this sign hangs approximately right here. This is the artwork that goes in
this portion of it. Just like the artwork that’s in the planetary system in the Laboratory Lagoon.
So this is the, you know this is where the old book that I just had, that we just updated, this is
where when you bring the children in, you sign them in and then our staff takes them to
wherever they go. Wherever their home room is. And so the rotunda this, this on this side is 16
televisions. Closed circuit television screens. This is 16 on this side so that the staff that’s
sitting here, 3 or 4 staff can physically put eyes on everything that’s happening in that building
and outside of that building. So it’s significantly more than a place to hang a sign. It’s the entry
feature which is purposely intended to be the choke point for ingress and egress so that we know
every kid that’s coming and going physically can put eyes on them and physically sign them in
and out.
Kate Aanenson: But my point is that it needs to be 50 feet tall in order for you to do that. To see
the kids come in and get the light, the sign up high.
Mike Clements: No here’s.
Mayor Laufenburger: Now be careful, he said that he could accommodate that with 45 feet.
Kate Aanenson: Okay.
Mike Clements: And there is a decorative element to this and I’m not trying to hide that. I’m
just, I wanted to show everyone the plan how that, how that, why that’s designed the way it is
and little more than just a rotunda.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Thank you Mr. Clements and I’m not saying that to dismiss you
but thank you for taking time to help us understand your, not only the architecture but also the
brand. Any other questions of Mr. Clements at this time? Councilman McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: What are the hours of operation?
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Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015
Mike Clements: I couldn’t hear you.
Councilman McDonald: What are the hours of operation?
Mike Clements: 6:30 in the morning to 6:30 in the evening. Monday through Friday.
Councilman McDonald: Are there any evening programs or anything like that that would go on
in the facility?
Mike Clements: No. We don’t rent our facility to, there’s no weddings. Bar Mitzvah’s.
Outside uses. We are strictly daycare, child care, those types of learning endeavors.
Councilman McDonald: So really complying with turning the signs down at night around 10:00
would not be a problem then?
Mike Clements: Shouldn’t be.
Councilman McDonald: And then also this is the front part of your building where the rotunda’s
at. Is there any lighting or anything on the back side of the building because that’s by the main
entrance where everybody drives in at.
Mike Clements: Yes there’s down lighting, and I’ll try to find a picture here in a minute that
shows it but there’s going to be down lighting around the building.
Kate Aanenson: This picture here. It’s got the different elevations.
Mike Clements: Yeah it doesn’t show them. There is down lighting attached to the building and
we had previously said that we would screen that lighting so that it didn’t effect the neighbors,
including the parking lot lighting would be shielded so that it doesn’t leave the property and
bother the neighbors.
Mayor Laufenburger: And that would comply with the ordinances.
Mike Clements: Correct.
Mayor Laufenburger: That we would stipulate for you.
Mike Clements: Correct.
Kate Aanenson: Just be clear Chair, Mayor, members of the council. We also would review,
that’s part of the planning check to make sure how the wall packs are mounted and that so with
the building permit.
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Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015
Councilman McDonald: Then the other question I’ve got for you is on the height of the rotunda.
Okay you’re saying that you could probably get by with 45 feet. Does that cause an impact and
is it a serious impact or is 5 feet really not that big a deal?
Mike Clements: If the difference was being here and not being here, we’ll build 45 feet. It’s
visual. We spend more money, I can tell you this. We spend more money by probably double
than any daycare operator in the U.S. This will be the most expensive building per square foot in
Chanhassen with the exception maybe of a medical. If they’ve got nuclear medicine in it. This
will be unbelievably costly. But we, that’s part of our plan. That’s, I’m not apologizing and I’m
not asking for anyone to feel sorry for us. It’s part of the plan. It’s what makes this work. We
put a lot of thought into the architecture and the looks and operationally everything about this. If
being here is 45 feet is what you want, I’ll take your 45 feet. If you’ll let me build 50, I’d love to
build 50. That’s really the right way for me to address that. I don’t have to have 50.
Mayor Laufenburger: Is 50 feet present in all of the other facilities that you’ve built?
Mike Clements: It’s present in about half. The ones that you don’t see, the ones that are under
construction development tend to lean towards 50. You’ll see all different types of things as
we’ve gone through this evolution. It’s about a 2 year from buying the dirt to turning the keys so
what you see on our web page a lot of are what I might call legacy or fairly new construction
whole bought process.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, any other questions? Go ahead Mr. McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: I’m not done yet. Then in the rotunda at the top up there, is that lit in
any way? Accent lighting around that or is it a clear dome in there so that light would shine up
from there?
Kate Aanenson: He’s asking the top of the parapet. Is that’s lit.
Mike Clements: On the exterior or the interior?
Councilman McDonald: On the exterior up at the top.
Mike Clements: No.
Councilman McDonald: And then at the very top, I don’t know what kind of a roof that is. Is
that a clear roof or you know is that something where light would shine up from there or?
Mike Clements: From the inside?
Councilman McDonald: From the in, it would have to be from the inside out.
Mike Clements: No. That’s a regular hot mop.
Councilman McDonald: Solid roof.
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Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015
Mike Clements: Solid roof, correct.
Councilman McDonald: Okay. I don’t have any more questions.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Councilwoman Ryan, do you have another question for the
applicant?
Councilwoman Ryan: Yes please. Could you explain the fence that’s going to go around the
facility and what that looks like and exactly where that’s located?
Mike Clements: Sure.
Kate Aanenson: I’ve got it up on the screen.
Mike Clements: Okay. If you, if whoever has the book in front of you it’s on page 25. That’s a
6 foot security fence that goes around the perimeter of the playground so it goes around the
perimeter of the playground as you can see here. This is the back side but it will have decorative
columns like this. It’s a metal fence that the kids can’t get through. It’s I believe 3 ½ inches on
center so no one can slip through on us. There’s no room underneath. It has fire department
crash gates which are code for the fire department but as you can see this goes all the way around
the exterior of the playground. Not necessarily the exterior of the property.
Councilwoman Ryan: And that’s on the west side of the building?
Mike Clements: That is on all, well it’s on three sides of the building so it would be your, not
the south side. South side is Highway 5 correct?
Mayor Laufenburger: Yep.
Mike Clements: So it’d be, you’ll have fence on the south side that leaves from the edge of our
building to the edge of the playground. Yeah that diagram shows it. So if you can image you’re
facing the building. There’s no fence in front of the building but immediately beginning at the
edge of the building on the west side and then clockwise all the way around the playground area,
back to the east side, front corner of the building.
Kate Aanenson: So when you pull up to the parking stall, the fence would be in front of you if
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you’re coming in off of West 78. You would be.
Councilwoman Ryan: Okay.
Kate Aanenson: The fence would be in front of you here.
Councilwoman Ryan: Okay.
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Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015
Kate Aanenson: So you have to come around to this side of the building to come in, is my
understanding correct?
Mike Clements: Say that again?
Kate Aanenson: You have to come around the building to come in.
Mike Clements: Correct.
Kate Aanenson: So if you’re parking on that side you would come on the sidewalk. Come
around to come in.
Councilwoman Ryan: Oh gotch ya. Okay. That’s one and then are there plans or what is your
thoughts for that open green space on that same, in that same parcel of land. Not on the north
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side of 78.
Mike Clements: Today I don’t have a plan but it would be consistent with the PUD uses. So
you could put in pediatric dentist. You could put in a medical office building.
Councilwoman Ryan: Oh okay.
Mike Clements: We could expand there later if it takes off.
Councilwoman Ryan: Okay.
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Mike Clements: We currently don’t have any plans for it. Clearly the north side of 78 Street,
we’ve already told the neighbors we’ll never develop that so we intend to honor that.
Kate Aanenson: Can I give a clarification of where that is on the PUD ordinance? It’s under
uses under number 7. It says private or public parcel. Open space is a permitted use and it says
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the property north of West 78 Street shall be limited to open space so.
Councilwoman Ryan: So when this is put, if this PUD is approved then your commitment to
leaving that as open space is.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah the only way it could change is someone would have to come back and
request a PUD amendment which would require a public hearing before the Planning
Commission and your approval.
Councilwoman Ryan: Okay, thank you.
Mike Clements: And we had spoken previously. Kate wasn’t here but we had spoke at the last
hearing that we would explore ways perhaps to dedicate that to the City or to the homeowners
association and it has a progression there but that’s still on the table.
Councilwoman Ryan: Okay, thank you.
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Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015
Mike Clements: Sure.
Mayor Laufenburger: Any other questions for Mr. Clements at this time? We may have further
follow up we might have but thank you Mr. Clements for coming up here and helping us. Now a
public hearing is not called for but is there any member of the public that’s present in the
chamber that would like to speak either on behalf or for or against this development. You may
do so at this time. Just come to the microphone. Would you pull that microphone so it’s, there.
Larry Martin: My name is Larry Martin. I live at 7725 Vasserman Trail. I’m not the President
of the homeowners association.
Mayor Laufenburger: And how many homes do, are in the association?
Larry Martin: 84 homes in the total Vasserman Ridge.
Mayor Laufenburger: Good.
Larry Martin: 38 twinhomes and the rest are multi-family or family homes.
Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Larry.
Larry Martin: Of all the plans that have come forward for this property in the last few years
here, this one is heads and shoulders above anything we’ve seen. The fact that the operation
hours are 6:30 in the morning to 6:30 in the evening with no evening programs. No Saturday
programs. No Sunday programs. It’s just a wonderful amenity I think for that neighborhood.
I’ve been, people have been talking about U turns here. The only U turn that I’m aware of is the
one people going north on Galpin and then trying to go south on there. I can’t see where
anybody using the school would do that. They would do a left hand turn off Galpin.
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Mayor Laufenburger: Enter off of 78 Street.
Larry Martin: That’s right. That’s right so traffic wise I think it’s great. I think you know the
biggest problem we see on Galpin is there’s a 45 miles an hour speed limit all the way down the
hill, all the way to the stop sign there so but again the neighbors that I have shown this to are
very supportive of it and we would welcome them to the community.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, thank you very much Mr. Martin. And just related to that Kate,
have you received any public comment either, other than tonight, either for or against this
project?
Kate Aanenson: Just what was received at the Planning Commission. Not other than that.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Alright, thank you. I forgot to ask you Mr. Clements on question
if I can. How many employees does CLA when it’s fully executed, how many employees?
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Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015
Mike Clements: You have got me. I have to think about this for a minute because every state
licensing is different and Minnesota State licensing.
Mayor Laufenburger: Just a reminder, we’d like you to speak into that microphone.
Mike Clements: I’m sorry about that. I’m guessing because I’m truly at a loss tonight. I think
we’re 56 employees at maximum licensed capacity. Now I sent an email to staff explaining what
that means. 52 would be the most employees ever in the building if I remember the numbers
right. I gave the numbers to the City. You have to look at traffic and numbers in the building.
The fire department’s going to look at them one way. Licensing’s going to look at them another
way. They both look at the maximum potential people that can be in that building at any given
time. Those numbers are significantly over stated compared to the way the business operates. A
third of the building, I’m doing big rough numbers here. A third of the building would be
children from infant through pre-kindergarten. Pre-K. 4 ½-5.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Yep.
Mike Clements: They will be in that building either a half day or a full day. The specialty
rooms sit empty if you will in the morning when the children are licensed in and the before and
after school will have a few kids in in the morning and then sit until 3:30 or 4:00 in the afternoon
when the school’s empty so even though the fire department may give a big number. 500 people
can be in this building at any given time, there will be significantly less than that. 60 percent
approximately would be the enrolled and 50 percent approximately from our history in our other
centers would be attendants.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. So I take in the 50 range is the employees. That would be.
Mike Clements: Max.
Mayor Laufenburger: A center director.
Mike Clements: That’s correct.
Mayor Laufenburger: Planners. Group heads as well as teachers as well as recreational
assistants and stuff like that.
Mike Clements: Correct.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Alright. Thank you very much. Alright, let’s bring it back to
council. Is there anybody else that would like to speak? Okay, let’s bring this back to council
for any follow up questions. Anybody?
Councilman McDonald: Are you looking for questions or comments?
Mayor Laufenburger: I’m looking for questions but before you make comments I have some
questions I want to clarify. Is there a storm pond present today near there? And is that part of
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Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015
what we see here? I think there’s a, isn’t there a storm pond just kind of west of one of the
power lines Mr. Oehme?
Paul Oehme: Correct.
Mayor Laufenburger: And is that storm pond visible here?
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Paul Oehme: No. Mayor, City Council members. That pond was constructed with 78 Street
and the improvements to Highway 5 that facilitates storm water improvements, or cleaning the
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storm water off of 78 Street and treating the storm water off of Highway 5 so that’s not
associated with this project. That pond is not sized appropriately to handle the runoff from this
development.
Mayor Laufenburger: Hence two new storm ponds will be added.
Paul Oehme: Correct.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Alright.
Paul Oehme: And then stormwater would go north.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Let’s see. There was discussion about the County access off of
Galpin. That’s the cut in would be a right-in/right-out and while I agree with Mr. Martin, I think
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most people would come in 78 Street. There is a cut in there right now. It’s directly opposite
the exit from CVS. Does the City have any jurisdiction over that whatsoever Mr. Oehme?
Paul Oehme: No, that’s County right-of-way.
Mayor Laufenburger: Do you know where that is in the County approval process either of you?
Paul Oehme: Preliminary. They’ve looked at it. Preliminarily they’ve approved it. I don’t see
any issues moving forward.
Kate Aanenson: Correct, they’ll just review the permitting and then creating the deceleration
lane and acceleration lane coming out.
Mayor Laufenburger: So it may be necessary to cut into that property a little bit?
Kate Aanenson: Yes. Yes.
Mayor Laufenburger: In order to accommodate that, okay. Alright. Let’s see. And
Councilwoman Ryan asked this question earlier. Just for clarification regarding the north
property. While I understand the ordinance says it will remain open, is there any advantage to
the City to receive that property as a gift from the property owner?
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Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015
Kate Aanenson: Well what we’re saying with this ordinance is it has no development capacity at
this time so.
Mayor Laufenburger: So there’s no reason for it to be gifted or given to the City.
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct.
Mayor Laufenburger: So it can remain right there and nothing will happen to it there.
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay.
Kate Aanenson: And it may be advantage to them if they do want to build on that other parcel,
that they need that for the green space as we were talking about before. For their hard cover
so…
Mayor Laufenburger: Because you’re counting, you’re counting that space to get to impervious
surface is that correct.
Kate Aanenson: We can if we need to, that’s correct.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, alright. Okay. Was there consideration Mr. Oehme given to
dealing with the traffic there at that intersection where the U turns occur, was there consideration
or can you speak to what consideration was given to remove the exit from CVS and Kwik Trip
there? Or has that ever been considered by the County.
Paul Oehme: We did have a conversation with the County about that and we did, when the
apartment complex was being proposed we did have conversations with the County and others
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about you know, changing the access off of 78 Street. I think the problem with eliminating or
reducing the access on Galpin for those developments would be to significantly impact the
businesses. The gas station and the.
Mayor Laufenburger: And CVS.
Paul Oehme: And CVS at that location so we’ve talked about it. I think it’d be a big detriment
for those businesses though.
Mayor Laufenburger: So nothing has gone through on that?
Paul Oehme: No. Nothing’s gone through on that.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. And likely nothing would happen with that unless we saw an
incredible change in traffic patterns producing accidents and problems with public safety, is that
correct?
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Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015
Paul Oehme: Absolutely. We would review any and all options at that time.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Kate this is a question for you and I’m not sure if you’re prepared
to answer it right now but I’d like you to maybe think about it. We know that in a PUD there are
gives and takes, okay so and one of the things is if the developer is asking for a variance or
something not compliant with our existing code we can write that into the PUD but we often say
okay. We’re going to give you that but what are you going to give us instead so I wonder if you
could, is it possible for you to summarize what modifications the developer would like from our
current code if you will.
Kate Aanenson: Sure. This is an OI, office institutional zoning district which allows two stories
which typically we would say maybe 24 feet. If it was a residential zoning district, medium
density the height limit does go higher so that’s why I’m saying we’re kind of comparing two
different things there. It’s well landscaped, articulated building. Besides the height and some of
the lighting. The signage would still have to fall, follow the underlying zoning district. The
office institutional zoning district.
Mayor Laufenburger: That would be monument signage.
Kate Aanenson: Yep, and wall signs would be, would follow that district so again it’s always
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been our goal is the preservation of the north side of West 78 so that was always one of the
guiding principles so if we could find a developer willing to say I will concentrate my
development on that side of the street.
Mayor Laufenburger: But they’re giving us that so that’s not really an outlying request, is it?
Kate Aanenson: Well I mean I guess they could try to put some, we’ve had other people try to
put some twin homes on there to make some advantage of that property.
Mayor Laufenburger: But at least what they’re asking for right now is compliant with our
desires which is to preserve.
Kate Aanenson: To preserve, that’s correct.
Mayor Laufenburger: Alright. So what I’m hearing so far, and I don’t want to mean to just kind
of a summary. So one thing they’re asking for is they’re asking us to adjust the height and
they’re also, though they don’t specifically say so they’re asking us to approve their wall signage
which is large lettering on the parapets. Or is that compliant?
Kate Aanenson: Well we don’t know yet because they will have to follow the OI zoning district.
We don’t have that in front of us but whatever that is and.
Mayor Laufenburger: What if the zoning for the OI district is, requires letters that are 6 inches
smaller than what they’re looking for?
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Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015
Kate Aanenson: It may. Then they’d have to come back and ask you for either an amendment to
the PUD for that or a variance.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay so that still is, that could happen.
Kate Aanenson: That could happen, correct.
Mayor Laufenburger: Is there anything else that you mentioned the landscaping, does the
landscaping comply with what we’re looking for?
Kate Aanenson: Yes it does.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, alright. So they’re not asking for a change there. Is there anything
with parking? Are they asking for any modifications to parking?
Kate Aanenson: No.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Is there anything else that they’re asking for that’s different?
Kate Aanenson: Don’t believe so.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Okay, thank you for that clarification. Alright. Now let me ask
one more time, any other questions for staff or for the applicant? Alright.
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, council.
Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Gerhardt. Did you have a question?
Todd Gerhardt: If you’re contemplating in making a motion it would be my recommendation
that we direct staff to come back with a revised staff report to make those changes in the
ordinance. Just so we’re consistent because with a PUD that ordinance is the direction of how
this building could be built and we want to make sure that the developer and staff get the proper
information into that so I think there was great feedback on this. We’re still within our 120 day
review process but we could bring this back at our next meeting and just make sure we
incorporate all those changes into the ordinance so.
Mayor Laufenburger: So you’re recommendation would be unless we’re prepared to fully agree
with the motion the way it reads, it would be better for staff to, excuse me. For council to direct
staff to go back and come back with a recommendation that complies with the consensus that we
talked about, is that correct?
Todd Gerhardt: Yeah I have concerns the way the ordinance is written right now.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay.
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Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015
Todd Gerhardt: And due to the number of changes that are occurring because that ordinance is
what would allow the developer to build the building and we want to make sure that everybody’s
on the same page.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. So I think the key questions that, and this is not in the form of a
vote but what I’m looking for is what’s the direction that council would like to provide relative
to the height of that rotunda.
Todd Gerhardt: Yes.
Mayor Laufenburger: Correct?
Todd Gerhardt: Yep. Whatever more direction you want to give staff that’s great but just
wanted to know, give everybody full disclosure on this as we move forward that we’d like to sit
down and make sure we’ve got the proper language in there.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. And actually Mr. McDonald got my attention first. Mr.
McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: Yeah I just want to make sure because one of the things I’m in favor of
is going the 50 foot height. You talk about gives and takes and you talk about the history of the
site. The fact that you’ve got a developer willing to give up that north tract I think we ought to
help the developer make this a successful venture.
Mayor Laufenburger: How do you feel, do you want to express a view about wall signs or
signage on the front?
Councilman McDonald: Well I don’t know what the ordinance is. I mean looking at the pictures
I think we’ve already got things within the city that are about that size but I don’t know. I’d like
to have something that would come back and, I mean first of all we don’t even know how big
these signs are. We need something, it may fit within the ordinance. If not then that’s probably
something we need to look at but.
Mayor Laufenburger: It’s certainly acceptable to direct staff to review.
Councilman McDonald: Right.
Mayor Laufenburger: The developer’s or the applicant’s request against our ordinance.
Councilman McDonald: Right and I think as far as the signs on the parapet that would be a good
thing to do but if you’re looking for direction to give to staff, I mean my preference would be to
allow them to go to the 50 foot height based upon what he showed about how the inside, how
integral that is to the success of all this and the fact that again they quit work at 6:30 at night. I
mean it’s not going to be that difficult to turn off anything on the inside except for security
lighting so that doesn’t put the applicant at any kind of disadvantage so I think we can work with
all of that.
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Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015
Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you. Anything else Mr. McDonald?
Councilman McDonald: No, I think other than that I mean I’m glad Mr. Martin is happy with
this and that the residents are and I know that they’ve you know voiced several opinions about a
number of proposed projects that have rolled through at this particular site and I know it’s been
difficult to put something on there so I’m glad we’ve finally come to something that meets
everybody’s expectations and requirements.
Mayor Laufenburger: Good, thank you Mr. McDonald. Councilwoman Ryan you were next.
Councilwoman Ryan: Thank you Mayor. I just had a question for, is it in the ordinance or is it
then in the PUD when we move forward with this that we talk about the time restrictions for
lighting. We had brought that, had come up.
Kate Aanenson: That would be part of the PUD ordinance.
Councilwoman Ryan: Okay. PUD ordinance, okay. So everything.
Mayor Laufenburger: Yeah, and it’s a PUD ordinance specifically for this PUD, is that correct?
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Alright.
Todd Gerhardt: Mr. Mayor, council members. I don’t know if Kate or I are getting the direction
on what, do you want to have the lights off at a certain hour? I’m hearing different things so if
we could get some.
Councilman McDonald: If I could. I mean we do it with the Christian Academy down here on
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West 78 Street. There were restrictions there on their monument sign as far as the hours so I
think we’ve already done this once you know for a particular area to be sensitive to light. We
can certainly do the same thing here. I think that one turns down at 10:00 at night. If that’s
acceptable you can copy pretty much what’s in there. If it needs to be a little bit sooner then
discuss it with the applicant at this point.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, Councilwoman Ryan how does that resonate with you? That
timing.
Councilwoman Ryan: I think 10:00 is great. I’d support that.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Did you have any other comment or question?
Councilwoman Ryan: You know when I first reviewed this plan I was concerned about the
height and in comparison to some of the other structures that we saw along Highway 5 and so I
shared your concern. But then when I see the conversations tonight with everybody here and
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Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015
hearing from the applicant when, to look at the difference between 45 to your point, 45 to 50 feet
is about as maybe a little shorter than I am so I don’t see the problem with the 50 foot. I agree
with Councilman McDonald and have heard from folks in Vasserman Ridge that they are very
pleased with this proposal and support something like this in looking into some comments from
people that use the facility in Texas and California, they get very positive reviews so I’m
comfortable with this company being and this facility being in Chanhassen in a residential area.
I think it fits well in our community and I think I’m very excited about having this opportunity to
have something so unique as part of Chanhassen so I, as long as we can be very clear with the
lighting and mindful and watchful of the road and the U turns that still, the traffic patterns still
concerns me. This is something that I can support.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, thank you Councilwoman Ryan. Anybody else?
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Sure.
Mayor Laufenburger: Councilwoman Tjornhom.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: I’d like to say that I’m sad that maybe this is the last time we’re
going to visit this area of town. I’m really hoping so because man, we’ve been here several
times before and you know we started, I started out talking about what’s the difference between
45 and 50 feet. But now I think I’d like to talk about just the fact that it’s a really unique
opportunity I think for the residents of Chanhassen to have another place to send their children.
And while it’s a long building, it did have the possibility of looking like a strip mall, and we all
know what we think of strip malls in town. We try to not probably go along with that kind of
model anymore and I think they’ve done a nice job architecturally of kind of breaking it up so it
doesn’t look elongated and like it has a potential to be a strip mall. I think that it’s a testament to
the fact that this room isn’t full tonight to see that the neighborhood feels it’s a good fit for them
and that it’s going to be a positive element in the neighborhood and along Highway 5 and Galpin
and so I just want to say welcome to Chanhassen. Hopefully it’s all going to work out and
hopefully the lighting issue can get resolved because I think it’s going to be, like I said a good
thing to drive through town and see on Highway 5.
Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Councilwoman Tjornhom. Councilman Campion.
Councilman Campion: Yes, I also support the rotunda height of 50 feet considering how well
this development seems to fit within our guidance otherwise and the allowance of the open
space. From the drawings and designs we’ve seen it seems like it will be a great addition to
Chanhassen.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Let me summarize I think what as direction to staff, your council
supports a 50 foot rotunda and then commensurate would be the plan height of the other parapets
as well. I think the only thing that may need to, you may need to come back including in the
ordinance would be anything related to the wall signs. The lettering on the signs. You’ve heard
10:00 is a good number. Kate use logic here. If we need to, if it needs to be 9:00 or 9:30 or
work with the applicant on that but what you’re hearing is that it is appropriate to take some of
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Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015
the brightness off of that building later in the day and then bring it up early in the morning. Let’s
see I think that was the clear direction.
Todd Gerhardt: Yep, thank you.
Mayor Laufenburger: And I want to echo what Councilwoman Tjornhom said too, only I would
not use the word sad. I’m delighted that we have an opportunity to be part of an addition to
Chanhassen that will contribute to what I believe is the character and culture and quality that
people have come to expect in Chanhassen and that is quality buildings. Quality businesses.
Quality employment opportunities and you know we are known for education. If you know
anything about the Minnetonka School District 276 or Eastern Carver County School District
112 you know that these are school districts that are ranked very highly in national standards for
education and I think that it seems to me that the mission of Children’s Learning Adventure is
consistent with the objective that virtually everybody in Chanhassen has so with that I look
forward to seeing from you Kate, this will be on another agenda.
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Todd Gerhardt: 28.
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Mayor Laufenburger: 28.
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Todd Gerhardt: 26, sorry.
Mayor Laufenburger: So that would be the day after Memorial Day and at that time we’ll review
what you have as a PUD ordinance and we’ll act on it at that time so thank you Mr. Clements.
Mr. Catchpool and others.
Peter Coyle: Mr. Mayor, can I just ask one question?
Mayor Laufenburger: Sure, just step up to the microphone and state your name please.
Peter Coyle: Sure. Mr. Mayor, members of the council, staff. Peter Coyle from Larkin
Hoffman here tonight on behalf of Children’s Learning Adventure. I have a question and a
comment. We understand that all of the signage materials and lighting information has been
submitted with the overall application so since the council is going to be bringing this back in 2
weeks our hope is that we’d be able to have lighting issues resolved and signage issues resolved
so that when the PUD is approved it’s all encompassed at that time and we just wanted to see if
that was going to be acceptable. Okay, very good. Thank you very much.
Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Coyle. Thank you. That’s your plan as well right Kate?
Kate Aanenson: Absolutely, yep.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, perfect. So with that thank you very much and Kate thank you very
much for your preparation and your work with the applicant on this. Also thank you Mr. Martin
to you and the homeowners in the Vasserman Ridge area that you represent. That concludes
item G on our agenda this evening. Now we’ll move to.
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Chanhassen City Council – May 11, 2015
Mike Clements: Thank you very much.
Mayor Laufenburger: We’ll move to council presentations. We don’t need a motion. You do
not want a motion. No. We gave staff direction.
Todd Gerhardt: We’ll even be able to put it on consent if everything works out with the
applicant.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Alrighty.
COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS.
None.
ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS.
Todd Gerhardt: I have one item. I want to recognize Jack Atkins as he was selected as our first
Fire Fighter of the Year at last week’s fire banquet. Jack has done a lot for the fire department
and very, very active in raising money on the, I’m trying to remember the term. Climb for
Cancer I think and so he’s always in the top 1 or 2 in raising dollars for cancer society so Jack is
very deserving of the award and great on our volunteer fire department so congratulations to Jack
and his family.
Mayor Laufenburger: Good. Any other administrative?
Todd Gerhardt: That’s all I have.
Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Gerhardt. Just a reminder, council members as well as the
public, our next council meeting be not the fourth Monday. That is Memorial Day but it will be
the day after that, Tuesday and though it’s not on the agenda I would just invite the entire
community to the annual Memorial Day celebration which occurs at the Veteran’s Monument
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area here at City Center Park and that will be at 12:00 noon on Monday, May 25. There’s
always great representation from the American Legion. I understand the Chan-o-laires will be
there so it will be a great, another great example of small town America here, right here in
Chanhassen.
CORRESPONDENCE DISCUSSION.
None.
Councilwoman Tjornhom moved, Councilman McDonald seconded to adjourn the
meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0. The
City Council meeting was adjourned at 9:00 p.m.
Submitted by Todd Gerhardt
City Manager
Prepared by Nann Opheim
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