CC 2018 02 12
CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL
REGULAR MEETING
FEBRUARY 12, 2018
Mayor Laufenburger called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. The meeting was opened with the
Pledge to the Flag which was led by Boy Scouts from Troop 460.
COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT: Mayor Laufenburger, Councilman McDonald, Councilwoman
Ryan, and Councilman Campion
COUNCIL MEMBERS ABSENT: Councilwoman Tjornhom
STAFF PRESENT: Todd Gerhardt, Chelsea Petersen, Kate Aanenson, Paul Oehme, Todd Hoffman,
Jerry Ruegemer, Adam Beers, MacKenzie Walters, and Roger Knutson
PUBLIC PRESENT:
Daryl & Nate Kirt 50 Hill Street
Jeff & Jill Souba 3617 Red Cedar Point
Elizabeth & Rick Nustad 7721 Erie Avenue
Dave & Barb Howe 400 Santa Fe Trail
Steve Zeller 1762 Woodstone Drive
Julie Nagorski Dewitt, 901 Marquette Avenue, Minneapolis
Brian Barnard 3630 Sunset Hills, Missouri
Todd Jackson 621 Broken Arrow Drive
Dan Cook 3630 S. Geyer, Sunset Hills, Missouri, 63127
Larry & Jean Zamor Tonka Bay
Todd Neils 990 Saddlebrook Curve
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Gary Carlson 3891 West 62 Street
Jay & Ty Johnson 6479 Duck Lake
Dave Harrington 51 Twin Maple Lane
Mark Hagen 2343 Harrison Hill Court
Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you young men. I understand they are earning a merit badge, is that
correct?
Audience: …badge.
Mayor Laufenburger: Wonderful. Future leaders. Maybe the future mayor in one of those young men.
First of all thank you and welcome to the council meeting this evening. To those of you that are in the
chamber as well as those of you that may be watching on Mediacom cable TV or through our website
livestream service. And for those of you that are not in the chamber we probably have about 40 or 50
people here tonight for any of a number of different topics. Let the record reflect that councilmembers,
all council members are here this evening with the exception of Bethany Tjornhom who is out ill on an
excused absence. Our first item this evening is the agenda. Council members are there any modifications
to the agenda this evening? If not then we will proceed with the agenda as printed. First item on the
agenda is item D.
Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
CONSENT AGENDA:
Mayor Laufenburger: Our first item on the agenda is item D. This is a consent agenda. Consent agenda
items are considered to be routine and will be considered in a single motion based on staff
recommendation unless anyone on the council or visitors present would like to have a discussion. If
discussion is desired we’ll simply move that item to be considered separately. We have items D(1)
through (17) this evening. That’s a large consent agenda but we’re making up for a meeting that was
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cancelled due to snow back on January 22. Is there any item that needs to be considered separately
council? Alright there being none, may I have a motion to approve the consent agenda items?
Gary Carlson: Your Honor, you mentioned that visitors can request an item.
Mayor Laufenburger: Yes they can. Would you just step up to the microphone please.
Gary Carlson: Yes, Gary Carlson. I reside next to the Cathcart Park.
Mayor Laufenburger: So is there a particular item that you’re asking about Mr. Carlson?
Gary Carlson: The resolution of our detachment.
Mayor Laufenburger: Which number is that?
Gary Carlson: 17.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, item number 17. You would like that to be handled separate from the
consent agenda, is that correct?
Gary Carlson: Yes.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Alright.
Gary Carlson: It can be handled immediately for just a short, right after and then you can reconsider. I
just have 3 concerns.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay I tell you what. I’m going to honor your request and I’m going to remove
that from the consent agenda. I’m going to ask you to sit down and then I’ll ask you to come back okay?
Gary Carlson: Thank you.
Mayor Laufenburger: Alrighty, so item number 17 we will address immediately after the consent agenda
is approved. Is there any other item to be removed? Alright there being none may I have a motion to
approve items D(1) through (16).
Councilman McDonald moved, Councilwoman Ryan seconded to approve the following consent
agenda items pursuant to the City Manager’s recommendations:
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
1. Approve City Council Minutes dated January 9, 2018
2. Receive Park and Recreation Commission Minutes dated December 12, 2018
3. Receive Planning Commission Minutes dated January 2, 2018
4. Receive Planning Commission Minutes dated January 16, 2018
5. Variance Request: 7052 Minnewashta Parkway.
6. Resolution #2018-09: Approve Purchase of Two Fire Department Command Vehicles.
7. Resolution #2018-10: Approve the Purchase of Exhaust Gas Venting System for Fire Station.
8. Resolution #2018-11: Authorize Support of TH 5 Regional Trail Master Plan, Carver County
Parks.
9. Resolution #2018-12: Accept Donation from the Chanhassen Athletic Association for Lake
Susan Park Ballfield Lighting.
10. Resolution #2018-13: Approve Application for Funding from the Carver County Community
Development Agency Community Growth Partnership Initiative Program for Rosemount, Inc., a
subsidiary of Emerson Electric Company.
11. Resolution #2018-14: Accept Bids and Award Contract for the 2017 Inflow and Infiltration (I/I)
Project.
12. Resolution #2018-15: 1650 Motorplex Court-Subdivision Request and Conditional Use Permit
Amendment.
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13. Mission Hills 3 Addition: Approve Final Plat, Development Contract, and Plans and
Specifications.
14. 7700 Quattro Drive: Amend Conditional Use Permit for Cell Tower.
15. 2018 Pay Equity Report.
16. Resolution #2018-16: Accept Street and Utility Improvements in Glaccum Highlands.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0.
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D(17). 3821 WEST 62 STREET: CATHCART PARK DETACHMENT TO CITY OF
SHOREWOOD.
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Mayor Laufenburger: Just a moment Mr. Carlson. This is a resolution 2018-17, 3821 West 62 Street,
Cathcart Park Detachment to the City of Shorewood. Who’s item would that be? Kate?
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
Kate Aanenson: That’d be mine Mayor, yes.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Could you just give us a very brief overview Kate of what this item is and
then I’ll ask Mr. Carlson to speak his comments.
Kate Aanenson: Thank you Mayor, members of the City Council. So in 1993 the cities of Shorewood
and Chanhassen entered into a joint powers agreement to operate Cathcart Park. Kind of a turf and
maintenance agreement. And in the fall of 2017 the two cities decided that it’d be best to let one city take
it over and detach it so right now the goal is to turn the property back over to the City of Shorewood for
their park maintenance and again looking at there is a permanent easement right-of-way on the eastern
side of the property for an additional 17 feet. At this time the City doesn’t see any need for that property
right now but there is an easement and those attached, those descriptions were included in your attached,
attachments so the City of Shorewood also has to take joint action on this and so we have a prepared
resolution as a part of this but the detachment again would make the park, would still remain a park but it
would be operated in the jurisdiction of the City of Shorewood.
Mayor Laufenburger: So the action tonight that you’re recommending is simply approving the resolution,
is that correct?
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. And has the City of Shorewood weighed in on this as well?
Kate Aanenson: They’re weighing in on it tonight.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, alright. Mr. Carlson you had a couple comments that you wanted to make is
that correct? Would you please step forward.
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Gary Carlson: Yes Your Honor. Again Gary Carlson. I reside at 3891 West 62 in the city of
Chanhassen. That park now is going to change our border to you know jog out a block, or about a 5 acre
tract that’s now going to be, it’s in Chanhassen and it will always be in Carver County so it’s just a city to
city transfer. But as with any 5 acre development, so let’s do the City of Shorewood develop that park.
Mr. Carlson develops 5 acres. If Mr. Carlson develops 5 acres the City, our City here and I’ve developed
property here in our city and very rightly the City of Chanhassen has requested me to give up right-of-
way. Do improvements that take care of storm water and all the other things with a development. I’ve
had to do those things to develop the 5 acres. The City of Shorewood developed that park without doing
any of those things. They just said well we’re going to put this in and do this and do that and make a hard
surface out of it. And I’ve been there for over 40 years and I’ve requested to handle the storm water
during all this time. I could take my shoes off. I know it’s more than 10 times I’ve been before different
councils, both here and in Shorewood to do something about the storm water runoff. So that issue is still
remaining and now that we’re going to resolve to you know I guess detach. Now’s the time for the City
of Chanhassen and all our council and our city staff to make requests of the developer, just like you all. If
I’m in a Planning Commission they say Carlson we may accept this but you change this and this and I
either do or I don’t get approved. Storm water handling, the one issue and I don’t know why that can be
in our request to the City of Shorewood since we’re just giving up authority. I mean all responsibility for
it which we don’t have a responsibility but it is in our city so we all have a responsibility that it’s taken
and handled as a development should have been originally. Issue is the storm water. Second issue is,
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
there’s a 16 ½ foot wide cartway that’s now a named city street on the whole western side of the park.
And our storm, our sewer pressure line lies under it so the City of Chanhassen will never give up that
right-of-way but I have the 5 acres west of that and it’s undeveloped right now. And my property abuts
several developments to the south of me that don’t have a second outlet. They don’t have a second outlet
to get out of there. I mean they’re just long cul-de-sacs on the end of long cul-de-sacs.
Mayor Laufenburger: Are you referring to Pipewood?
Gary Carlson: Pipewood in that area and Cartway Lane does go down to that and at the time of the last
development right next to the develop they said well they opened the road up that way and then I think
consultations here at the city decided wait a minute. We can’t let every vehicle go down a 16 ½ foot
cartway and say it’s a city street because now it has 30 miles speed limit maximum and safety wise there’
just no, so we put a barrier across right now. Presently there’s a barrier and the City and I have a key for
it. The City has a key in case they want to get in or out of Pipewood on a second, from a secondary route.
Otherwise there’s only one way in or out. But if I develop the 5 acres am I going to be required to give
up 40 feet, well it would be less 16, of my property, out of my 5 acres and the City of Shorewood give up
nothing? Now this storm water that’s the problem of Shorewood and they’ve said well it’s going to
become Chanhassen’s water. Why? Because it is. It runs out of our place. I’ve talked to the City of
Shorewood. They’re thinking about doing something but nothing’s in writing. I mean we didn’t make
any requests of Shorewood in this detachment that be resolved. The City of Shorewood solve the
drainage water problem. Okay fine. We’ll sign and they agree to resolve the storm water problem. We
resolve for future development that Shorewood grant us an additional.
Mayor Laufenburger: Us being you Mr. Carlson?
Gary Carlson: The City of Shorewood.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay.
Gary Carlson: I mean the City of Chan or whoever develops my 5 acres. I hope I can out live Todd. I
wouldn’t want to break in another city manager. I hope he doesn’t retire. I’ve enjoyed the city staff.
They’ve worked with me. They’ve been very kind and very helpful.
Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you for those comments.
Gary Carlson: It’s not that the City of Chan hasn’t really been very helpful. They have been and I
appreciate it but the City of Shorewood should give up and when they would, if we would put a, this is
the future which is all we’re all concerned about. We’re always concerned about the future of our city
and how each parcel is going to develop. If that did develop into a major, to a normal street because we
already have a cartway. We already have sewer under it. Someone’s going to have to give up all that
property so I either have to give it all up on my side or Shorewood can give up their 60, so it would be,
well 8 is already from the center over to them. It’s a 16 ½ foot road, wide road if you can call it a road.
You can’t hardly call it a road but anyway.
Mayor Laufenburger: It’s called a lane I think.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
Gary Carlson: Well I named it with the City’s permission. But Shorewood could take care of the storm
water by giving up the additional whatever, 14 feet and then we’d have storm sewer down, down the edge
of it. I mean like all other runoff is handled. So if we were to ask that in our resolution that if that
property to the west develops and as the need of a proper street, that they agree to give up another 16 feet
of street. It won’t hurt their park at all. In fact it will improve their park because right now they don’t
have any pull off parking on that side of the park. It’s just a 16 ½ foot cartway with no curb and people
just drive down their own and drive right in the park and park. I mean they just drive right up on the lawn
and they park. And they park all along, the tennis court is down at that end of the park. There’s no
parking whatsoever for that so they all just drive down the cartway and drive up on the lawn. Which is
fine 40 years ago but that’s not how we do it now. I mean we have, so if they were to agree to, if a road
went in, which I’d have to give up more, which is fine and it’s part of my development which right now
it’s a horse pasture but it will be, in the future property development but if I have to give up 40 feet on my
whole width of the road on my 5 acres, that’s kind of unfair.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay.
Gary Carlson: I just wonder why these things could not be in here and there wasn’t a chance for a public
meeting. And then this same thing is being handled over at Shorewood at the same time so I can’t be in
two places at once, which seems strange. When we ditched all the 5 acres of Chan. Give it to Shorewood
and they’re accepting 5 acres on the same night. But do you have any questions?
Mayor Laufenburger: Well Mr. Carlson it sounds like, and forgive me if I didn’t cover all your points.
Gary Carlson: Yeah.
Mayor Laufenburger: Number one you were concerned about the handling of the storm water.
Gary Carlson: Correct.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. You also demonstrated or you spoke about the closure on the cul-de-sac of
Pipewood versus, and also at the bottom of Cartway Lane. Are you proposing that that be opened Mr.
Carlson?
Gary Carlson: Well we can’t because it’s just a little cartway but I would say if that needed to develop
and become a proper street there’s a nice public street that ends right at the, at Cartway Lane.
Mayor Laufenburger: So I think Mr.
Gary Carlson: So I could connect to it when I develop.
Mayor Laufenburger: Right. And I think the.
Gary Carlson: And it would connect the city with two ways in and out of the, all those homes. There’s at
least 30 homes down there that only have one entrance.
Mayor Laufenburger: So Mr. Carlson just let me ask you to pause for a moment.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
Gary Carlson: Yeah.
Mayor Laufenburger: So Ms. Aanenson is it my understanding or my understanding is that if a
development were to occur on Mr. Carlson’s property and if the proposal was to open that street would
that come back to the City Council for approval?
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay so we don’t have to decide on that right now Mr. Carlson.
Gary Carlson: No. No but we could ask Shorewood in this thing to be prepared to accept a highway.
Not a highway but a road expansion on their western border.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay.
Kate Aanenson: If I may Mayor. Some of the challenges are not all of Mr. Carlson abuts that cartway.
There’s other property owners involved too so that.
Mayor Laufenburger: And that property, that property is in the city of Chanhassen. Not in the city of
Shorewood.
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct.
Mayor Laufenburger: Even after we detached it. So this, Shorewood would not have jurisdiction over
the decision to open or close. Open that cul-de-sac or keep it closed so.
Gary Carlson: You’re right Your Honor, absolutely.
Mayor Laufenburger: In the city of Chanhassen.
Gary Carlson: Yeah we could, I could give up the 40 feet and we can open it tomorrow but I’d have to
put in a proper street.
Mayor Laufenburger: Well as long as the City Council…
Gary Carlson: Yeah as long as you tell me it’s okay.
Mayor Laufenburger: That’s correct, okay. Okay, was there anything else you wanted to say Mr.
Carlson?
Gary Carlson: No. No just, I don’t understand all the legal. I don’t know why we just, one public owns
it. The other public owns it. We’re next to each other. Why we have to dissolve it because now the
Chanhassen city border will go like this in that area. And the policing will still come from Carver County
and our policing so and Shorewood will have a problem on their park. They’ll call their police
department. They have no jurisdiction and if Hennepin County doesn’t have any jurisdiction unless
they’re chasing somebody in Carver County.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
Mayor Laufenburger: Well I think Mr. Carlson despite what you think, I think, I believe that Carver
County has a cooperative agreements with all of our surrounding communities including Eden Prairie,
Victoria, Chaska, Shorewood, Excelsior so we have cooperative arrangements for not only public safety
but also, not only law enforcement but also public safety as well.
Gary Carlson: Right but I mean our officers don’t go over to Shorewood parks and start policing.
Likewise their don’t come into Chanhassen parks but this will open that problem up okay because we’re
going to have a jog border and.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, well I appreciate your comments Mr. Carlson.
Gary Carlson: It’s not a problem to me whatsoever. I’ve never needed the police over there but.
Mayor Laufenburger: Well let’s hope that that continues and you have no need for fire or emergency
services either. Alright, thank you Mr. Carlson for your comments. Ms. Aanenson or Mr. Oehme, would
either of you care to address any of the items that Mr. Carlson raised? Mr. Oehme can you speak a little
bit about why this detachment? I know that this property is, you know Shorewood uses is. We
maintained it, etcetera.
Paul Oehme: So Mayor and City Council members. I don’t have the answer for the detachment. I mean
I’ve been dealing with the storm water issue and some of the right-of-way issues that Mr. Carlson had
brought up so maybe that question could be directed at other staff for the detachment but for the drainage
issue I have been talking to the City of Shorewood about that.
Mayor Laufenburger: So they’re very aware of the drainage issue.
Paul Oehme: They’re very aware of it and so, and Cartway Lane is a gravel road and we’ve been trying
to maintain that over the years. We’ve been trying to slope the drainage away from the 3 properties out
there as best as we can but over time that gravel moves around a little bit so we grade the road as much as
we can. The idea, what we talked with Shorewood about high level is to create a drainage swale out here
a little bit better to try to capture the water. Try to treat it before.
Mayor Laufenburger: A drainage swale on the western boundary of Cathcart Park?
Paul Oehme: Yep exactly on the park itself so to try to capture the water before it ends up on Mr.
Carlson’s road so that’s the intent. That’s what we’re trying to work towards right now and Shorewood,
I’d have no reason why Shorewood would not want to make any of those drainage improvements.
Mayor Laufenburger: So you’re getting cooperation from Shorewood?
Paul Oehme: Yes we have.
Mayor Laufenburger: I happened to see the mayor of Shorewood earlier today and he’s, he wants his
land back so. We didn’t come to fist to cuffs or anything but I told him that we were acting on that
tonight so.
Paul Oehme: Sure.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Gerhardt did you want to make any comments at this time?
Todd Gerhardt: Yeah I can comment on Cathcart Park. Cathcart Park was dedicated to the City of
Shorewood to the church to the north and as long as they developed it as a park and Shorewood, the
benefit of it developing as a park for their residents but also saw that there was a benefit to our residents
so we had this agreement where we would kind of maintain certain parts of the park and they would do
certain things to the improvements of facilities and over the years I think it’s gone back and forth. Each
party not maintaining their side of the agreement and Shorewood making the decision since they have title
to Cathcart Park is to have that detached back into the city of Shorewood. And I think Roger could give
you a legal opinion that we would have very poor standing in trying to stop that process once it went
through the annexation board.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Mr. Knutson would you concur with that?
Roger Knutson: Yes I would Mayor.
Mayor Laufenburger: Alright. Well it seems that this process is, Ms. Aanenson what exactly is the
council being asked to approve this evening?
Kate Aanenson: Just the resolution that permits the detachment. It still has to go to another body to
approve the detachment so what it does is give legal authority that belongs now to the City of Shorewood.
So you’re approving a resolution for it to go forward to a board to approve it.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. So the issues that Mr. Carlson raised specifically regarding if development
were to occur, and I believe Mr. Carlson you can just nod your head. You’re talking about if
development were to occur on your property is that correct? Okay. So if that development were to occur
who would have authority over that development? Would it be the City of Chanhassen or the City of
Shorewood? Ms. Aanenson.
Kate Aanenson: Both cities would. Majority of it being, if the developer lives in the city of Chanhassen
we would take first review of that. If something needed to happen on Cathcart Park we would look at that
but there are a number of ways for that property to develop without potentially even using Cathcart.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay and is there anything in this detachment resolution that would preclude Mr.
Carlson from developing? Mr. Carlson or a future property owner from developing that land in
accordance with Chanhassen policies.
Kate Aanenson: No.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. So he loses no ability, he or future property owner loses no ability to do
anything correct?
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Council any questions of staff? Councilmember Ryan.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
Councilwoman Ryan: Actually of Mr. Knutson. Does the, I know Mr. Carlson asked about having
something put into the resolution about you know taking some action in terms of the storm water and
drainage. Do words or adding something to the resolution then by, hold them to taking any, the City of
Shorewood having to do anything or is it just that we’re asking them to but they’re, it doesn’t require
them to act on that correct?
Roger Knutson: It does not require them to act on it and I would recommend you not put it in this
resolution. You could send them a separate letter or request. I mean they don’t, right now you talk about
land for a road. They don’t have to provide any land for a road. To expand that road. They own the
property. They own that park. We can’t require them, if this doesn’t go through we still couldn’t require
them to give land to the City. They might if they decided the street was okay and they needed it but you
couldn’t require without condemning it which would be extremely unlikely.
Councilwoman Ryan: Right. And I mean the reason why I ask is I know that was another one of Mr.
Carlson’s requests was about the resolution and I know Mr. Oehme’s having the conversations with
Shorewood. I just wanted to clarify that request.
Mayor Laufenburger: So to restate that, there’s no language that we could put into a document that would
require the City of Shorewood to give up their land for a road.
Roger Knutson: Not in this context.
Mayor Laufenburger: Not in this document. Not in this context.
Roger Knutson: Yes.
Mayor Laufenburger: We could ask, we could write a letter and be nice and say in the future.
Roger Knutson: Please consider.
Mayor Laufenburger: Please consider.
Roger Knutson: Sure.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay.
Councilwoman Ryan: Thank you.
Mayor Laufenburger: Any other questions of council? Okay I would ask before we, actually is there
somebody that would like to make a motion at this time?
Councilman McDonald: Mr. Mayor I’ll make a motion that we adopt the resolution.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay.
Councilman McDonald: Transferring I guess the property or the control of the property back over to
Shorewood.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
Mayor Laufenburger: The word is detached.
Councilman McDonald: Detached.
Mayor Laufenburger: Alright. And I’m going to ask you to read that motion just so we have it on record.
Here Jerry, this is the motion.
Councilman McDonald: Okay I’m getting hit with too many things all at once. Just a second. Okay I’ll
make a motion that the Chanhassen City Council approves a resolution authorizing the concurrent
detachment of land from Chanhassen and annexation to Shorewood.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay we have a valid motion. Is there a second?
Councilman Campion: Second.
Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Campion. Alright is there any further discussion? I would like to
add this point that if this motion, should this motion pass I would like to direct city staff to write a letter to
the City of Shorewood urging them to consider providing land to the road in the event that the property
owner of Mr. Carlson’s property, whatever that address is, choose to develop that land. Got that Ms.
Aanenson?
Kate Aanenson: Yep.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, alright. Any further discussion on the motion?
Resolution #2018-18: Councilman McDonald moved, Councilman Campion seconded that the
Chanhassen City Council approve a joint resolution requesting concurrent detachment from
Chanhassen and annexation into Shorewood of certain lands pursuant to Minnesota Statues Section
414.061. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0.
Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Carlson, thank you very much for your comments.
Gary Carlson: Thank you very much.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: PRESENTATION OF DONATION FROM CHANHASSEN
ATHLETIC ASSOCIATION FOR LAKE SUSAN PARK BALLFIELD LIGHTING.
Mayor Laufenburger: We will now move to item E which is visitor presentation. Visitor presentation is a
time where anyone wishing to address the City Council on a matter that is not on the agenda this evening,
they may step to the podium stating their name and address for the record. We have a planned visitor
presentation. I understand that there are some, one or more persons present to make a donation from the
Chanhassen Athletic Association. Is that, Mr. Hoffman is that your’s?
Todd Hoffman: Correct.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Do you want to explain that or introduce the visitor if you wouldn’t mind.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
Todd Hoffman: Tonight we have with us Todd Neils representing the Chanhassen Athletic Association to
make a presentation of a check, a sizeable check in fact to the City of Chanhassen for partial payment of a
$52,000 donation in total that they’re making to the Lake Susan Park ballfield lighting project.
Mayor Laufenburger: And this is a, by statute we are required to, Mr. Knutson you can help me with this.
We are required to gain council approval for any donation made in excess of, what is it $10,000?
Roger Knutson: You need a two-thirds vote to accept it.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. And just a moment. That item was on our consent agenda and it received a
4-0 motion so state your name and address please.
Todd Neils: My name is Todd Neils, 990 Saddlebrook Curve in Chanhassen.
Mayor Laufenburger: And what’s your affiliation with the Chanhassen Athletic Association Mr. Neils?
Todd Neils: I was on the board for 14 years and am currently a member of the Dugout Club and work
closely with the Chanhassen Athletic Association to enhance the parks in the community that serve
District 112 Chanhassen High School.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. And you have a donation for us this evening is that correct?
Todd Neils: I do and I’d like to first thank the council for their consideration and approval of the motion
for the lights at Lake Susan Park and have a check for $38,000 which is the first two installments of the
agreed amount. The third installment will come in the first quarter of next year.
Mayor Laufenburger: And I expect you’d like to get that into my hands real quick is that correct?
Todd Neils: I want to get it out of my hands.
Mayor Laufenburger: Stand right over here. And I will take that check. Just hold it right here in front of
us. It’s a big check. It’s a big check on a small sheet of paper. Well before you go on behalf of the entire
community we thank you, not only you but all of the members of the Chanhassen Athletic Association
…and I understand you have ball players, around 1,000 ball players that actually participate in your
program and this money will be wisely used to install lights at Lake Susan Park and it’s not just for the
athletic association. We have a number of other, the high school uses the field. We have a Latino
Baseball League that uses the field as well so on behalf of the entire community thank you. And I just
want to acknowledge I think we have with us Mr. Craig Gallop from Muska Lighting is that correct? Just
if you’d raise your hand so people know and he is the approved contractor, is that correct Mr. Hoffman?
Todd Hoffman: Correct.
Mayor Laufenburger: For the lighting. So exactly once we get to that item, alright. Okay. At this time
for visitor presentation if there’s anyone who wishes to address the council on an item that’s not on the
agenda this evening you’re welcomed to step forward at this time. Okay, there being none I will close the
visitor presentation and move to our next item.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
PUBLIC HEARING: APPROVE OFF-SALE INTOXICATING LIQUOR LICENSE FOR
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TARGET CORPORATION DBA TARGET STORE T-0862, 851 WEST 78 STREET.
Mayor Laufenburger: Who’s item is this?
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor I’ll take this item.
Mayor Laufenburger: Alright, Mr. Gerhardt.
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Todd Gerhardt: Target Corporation at 851 West 78 Street is looking for an off-sale liquor license and it
would have it’s own entrance and exit from the main entrance into the Target store. This is a public
hearing and staff would ask that the council open the public hearing and that the background check on the
managers in Target Corp came back clear.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Before I open the public hearing, is there any question from council for
staff at this time? Okay. At this time I would like to open the public hearing and I would simply ask that
if you would like to speak regarding this matter just simply come up to the podium and state your name
and your address and just be prepared by to tell us what your thoughts are. Anybody like to speak at this
time? State your name and address please.
Jonathon Redberg: Hello. My name is Jonathan Redbird. I’m with Target Corporation. I actually live in
Minneapolis but representing tonight.
Mayor Laufenburger: We like when people from Minneapolis come to Chanhassen.
Jonathon Redberg: Good, that’s reassuring. Yeah.
Mayor Laufenburger: Just, could you just spell your last name please?
Jonathon Redberg: Yeah, R-e-d-b as in boy e-r-g.
Mayor Laufenburger: Redberg, alright.
Jonathon Redberg: Yep, I’m the Senior Analyst of Licensing for Adult Beverage at Target so we handle
all the liquor licenses for the company. So just a couple things I want to go over tonight. Obviously
we’re super excited to be here. This application is part of our investment in a full remodel of our store
that’s going on right now. Started in January and will be going on through April. The wine and spirit
shop is a key element of that remodel.
Audience: Can you speak up a little bit?
Mayor Laufenburger: Actually if you make sure your mouth is about 2 to 3 inches from the microphone.
Nann I think is it turned all the way up?
Todd Gerhardt: Yep.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, go ahead. Continue.
Jonathon Redberg: So the wine and spirits that we’re here to talk about tonight is expected to deliver
what guests expect from Target. A clean look and feel and a convenient one stop shopping experience.
The proposed wine and spirits store is about 2,600 square feet. It’s going to be located, like was
mentioned at the front of the store. It will have an entrance to the outside directly into the liquor store
near the front entrance of the main Target store. Our assortment includes national brands and local
favorites that are tailored to the taste of the community that we’re in and then some exclusive items like
our brand new affordable California Roots wine. I think adult beverage in Minnesota is a newer thing for
Target to be in but we’ve been selling alcohol across the country since 1996 and currently do sell in about
1,400 stores in 39 different states. Currently in Minnesota we have 9 separate entrance wine and spirit
stores with an additional number planned for 2018. We’ve been selling 3.2 beer in Minnesota for about
15 years and have, are proud to say we’re responsible sellers of alcohol in Minnesota. We’ve not had any
violations in 10 years so very proud of that. So just want to say thank you for your time this evening and
here for questions okay so thanks.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Just for a moment. Any council member have a question of Mr. Redberg?
Councilwoman Ryan: Will we have time after? Okay.
Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Redberg.
Jonathon Redberg: Yep.
Mayor Laufenburger: Is there anybody else who wish to address the council at this time. Good evening.
State your name and address please.
Dave Howe: My name is Dave Howe, H-o-w-e. 400 Santa Fe Trail and I think it was made very clear
when Total Wine presented their case before the council that we had more than enough liquor sales
outlets and I very much object to Target being an additional outlet for off-sale liquor. We have so many.
Right across the street is Lunds and Byerlys for example so I don’t think we need to do that. That’s all.
Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Howe.
Dave Harrington: Good evening.
Mayor Laufenburger: Yes.
Dave Harrington: Dave Harrington, 51 Twin Maple Lane. We’ve been here for almost 29 years and I
want to open by saying I oppose this council supporting another liquor license in Chanhassen. Nothing
against Target. I’m sure they run a great operation but I’ve got a couple areas of concern I’d like to talk
about and have a couple questions that I’d like to ask.
Mayor Laufenburger: Please do.
Dave Harrington: The first, my first reaction was I didn’t believe there was a need for an additional
liquor store in Chanhassen but I thought that was maybe short sighted and biased and so I looked at some
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
of the data and the Villager happened to just publish an interesting article that talked about the number of
liquor stores per community and at first blush you’d say well gosh we’ve only got 6. Chaska’s got 7 and
little Carver’s got 4 so I looked at it a little bit differently and said well what does that relate to and is it
comparing apples to oranges? When you look at particularly Victoria and Carver, of those 9 off sale
licenses 6 of them are bars and I would make the claim that it’s really apples to oranges comparison. I
don’t think one would consider Harvey’s or Lisa’s in Carver an off sale liquor store. So when you look at
it from that standpoint and look at the data in terms of the number of stores per capita, Chanhassen
currently with our 6 stores is about 4,200 residents per store. Chaska 3,700. Carver adjusted for the bars
4,400. Victoria 4,400. Then I looked at maybe some more comparable communities. Minnetonka, one
per 5,200 residents. Eden Prairie different business model. Those are municipal stores. They only have
3 stores so that’s a different challenge they face. I think, so that puts them at one per 21,000 but I also
think speaks to why big box stores like Total Wine end up right on the periphery of Eden Prairie because
they’re drawing a significant amount of volume from Eden Prairie. So I thought to myself I’m not sure
there is a need. Should this move forward our ratio would move to one in 3,600 and we would have the
most liquor stores per capita in the western suburbs. I’m not sure that’s a claim to fame we want to claim
and the concern I’ve got is that when Total Wine was approved in 2005 we’ve had 2 stores close since
then.
Mayor Laufenburger: 2015.
Dave Harrington: 2015, I’m sorry. Did I say 2005? 2015. We’ve had 2 stores close that I don’t know
that for a fact but I believe they’re still vacant store fronts.
Mayor Laufenburger: They’re not.
Dave Harrington: They are not?
Mayor Laufenburger: Yeah. One became Michael King Orthodontics.
Dave Harrington: Okay. Alright that’s good news because I’m encouraged to see the redevelopment of
store fronts that are sitting vacant so that’s good news. But I still am concerned because the high
concentration of liquor stores in downtown Chanhassen means that those residents of the new apartment
building can literally walk to 6 liquor stores and I’m just not sure that’s necessarily the development we
need. So the question I’ve got is, what drives this decision in the City’s eyes for approval? Unanimous
approval. And have any residents expressed concern there’s not adequate access to liquor in Chanhassen
off sale? I’m just curious what your approach is. I’m not trying to be.
Mayor Laufenburger: Your questions are noted Mr. Harrington and I think that you may hear some
answers to those questions as we continue.
Dave Harrington: Okay.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, is there anything else?
Dave Harrington: Yeah secondly I want to ask and I’m a little concerned about the process of the public
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hearing and the intent. The public notice for request for hearing went in the Villager on January 11 and
nd
the meeting would have been held on the 22. It was snowed out and thank you for cancelling that. That
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
would have been a disaster. And written notice goes out to those businesses or residences within 500 feet
and in your discussion of that topic you indicated no one expressed any concern. I get that but I’m not
sure that means consent because those went to 12 different businesses that may or may not have interest.
Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Harrington, just let me speak to that. By no means do we suggest that silence
is consent. We are obligated to inform people within 500 feet of any kind of development, whether it’s
you know, I mean there’s other developments that are going on in the community and we have an
obligation to do that but we also make all of our developments very aware on our public website so
people can follow that information and I think the Villager does a pretty good job of making sure that
anything that is of interest or should be of interest to the people of Chanhassen, they make that aware and.
Dave Harrington: And I admit that’s been a learning experience for me so.
Mayor Laufenburger: Yep.
Dave Harrington: I’m now more active on your website and much more engaged in…
Mayor Laufenburger: Glad you are and I would encourage more public to do that as well because the
best source of information about what’s going on in terms of development and activities in the city of
Chanhassen, the best source is for the citizens to see the same information that we as council members see
so that was a good question.
Dave Harrington: Okay. And I guess I’ll close with the basis of the public hearing is that, is this council
prepared to do anything differently in regards to this motion based upon public feedback tonight?
Mayor Laufenburger: I think you’ll hear that tonight in the discussion Mr. Harrington.
Dave Harrington: Okay.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay.
Dave Harrington: Thank you.
Mayor Laufenburger: Alrighty, thank you very much. Is there anyone else who would like to address the
council at this time? State your name and address please.
Steve Zeller: My name is Steve Zeller, 1762 Woodstone Drive in Victoria. I own Parley Lake Winery
with Lynn Deerdorf so I come here as much as a potential client of these stores and I, my point is more of
a trend. In fact I’m supportive of Target getting a liquor license because I look at it as a store of
convenience than a destination store and so they already have the parking. They’re going to have the
access so I don’t, you know from some of the issues of previous things I think there’s less of a concern
there so I’m supportive of it. The concern I have is they are, even though they’re a locally headquartered
operation they are national in reach and as a local business we find the locally owned stores are very
supportive, even more so of local brands. Whether that be local craft beer or local craft wine.
Mayor Laufenburger: When you say supportive you mean.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
Steve Zeller: They carry the product and support local tastings.
Mayor Laufenburger: Right.
Steve Zeller: Are very supportive because they live here and they support that so, we’re in the process of
getting in a Chaska Target so they’re not, not supportive of local so that’s why I’m here to say they have
in a trend done that but it does concern me when we, we get to national brands and there are local content
that has possibilities and I think I look at the restaurant scene and other things and I would just say as you
look at, I know you don’t bring development in. Development comes to you but I would just say continue
to look at local support and local owned businesses that support local suppliers and other things and so
it’s a bit of a concern, the trend and I’m concerned for my friends that own other stores that are local,
local residents so, so I have a little two faced side to the argument but just mine is local content. Local
owners. You know farm to table restaurants. Things like that are what I think it would be good to put
more on the focus of finding more of and I think your community will be seen less as a bringer of national
brands and more of something that is supportive of local community. I know of a couple chefs that
struggled to think about coming here because of the certain sense that it’s more of a national brand
focused organization rather than farm to table and local businesses so trend. Take it as you know
feedback and I appreciate the time.
Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Steve. Is there anyone else who would like to speak at this time? Good
evening.
Mark Hagen: Good evening.
Mayor Laufenburger: State your name and address please.
Mark Hagen: My name is Mark Hagen, 2343 Harrison Hill Court. I’ve been there about 15 years. I’d
just like to echo some of Steve’s points on the local but more on, or to reinforce the fact that a lot of
people you know that live here, we have a lot of friends that are owners, managers, employees of the
existing liquor stores and they’re existing share continues to get whittled away. Total Wine was not a
whittle. I mean that was a whack but we continue to see that happen and quite honestly we just kind of
feel bad about it and I understand very well the concepts of supply and demand having been in business a
very long time but I just don’t see the demand here for you know this addition to the community with
another liquor store. So just wanted to say that and I thank you for your time.
Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Hagen. We welcome anyone else who would like to speak on this
subject. Anyone else? Alright there being none at this time I will close the public hearing related to the
approval of the off sale intoxicating liquor license for Target and let’s bring it back to the council. And
first of all council, any questions of any of the visitor presentations including Mr. Redberg? Anybody?
Councilmember Ryan, go ahead. Is your question of staff or Mr. Redberg?
Councilwoman Ryan: Mr. Redberg.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay Mr. Redberg would you mind returning to the podium please.
Councilwoman Ryan: Thank you. Hi there. Just a couple questions. In some of your, obviously I
haven’t been in all of the stores but in some of your stores I’ve noticed that when you talk about, you had
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
mentioned that there’s separate entrances. In the design that I see for this one there’s an entrance from the
exterior of the building but then there’s also an interior entrance.
Jonathan Redberg: Correct, well. The interior one is for staff only so no public entrance.
Councilwoman Ryan: So there isn’t, that hallway is not for?
Jonathan Redberg: Correct. Yeah, that’s just for staff.
Councilwoman Ryan: That is just for staff, okay.
Jonathan Redberg: Yep.
Councilwoman Ryan: Well that eliminates a huge concern of mine. The other question you had
answered about if there were any violations. In terms of employees, obviously you employ young adults
or those under 21. What is, not in your liquor store necessarily but in your main store, what will they
have access to? How do you protect that access to the alcohol?
Jonathan Redberg: Sure. So the team lead that’s in charge of the liquor store will have the keys
obviously as well as the leaders in the store. We won’t allow anyone who’s underage to work in that
space obviously and they wouldn’t have any access apart from you know going in the front door so
there’s no way for them to go in the back way without a key.
Councilwoman Ryan: So there’s no access to where any of it is stored or deliveries?
Jonathan Redberg: Correct, yep. Yep that’s all secured with the contiguous space at the front.
Councilwoman Ryan: Okay. And then the Target pick up lane, which I wish you really would not have
put that in there. There won’t be any ability to order alcohol and have it delivered to the car?
Jonathan Redberg: No. We actually had conversations with the State on this very issue.
Councilwoman Ryan: Okay.
Jonathan Redberg: When that started with the pick up at Target and just reassuring them that that’s not
something we’re doing and we’re following all State and local laws as that pertains to alcohol and
delivery and all those things I think in Minnesota. All those laws end up being very local so we’re
following all those laws.
Councilwoman Ryan: Okay. And then my last question, it was interesting that you talked about the
1,400 stores because I was reading an article about that. That it’s your fastest growing business sector for
Target.
Jonathan Redberg: Correct, yep.
Councilwoman Ryan: And you’re trying to get approval in Chaska as well as Minnetonka. Have you
been denied a liquor license before when you’re trying to go into these various locations?
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
Jonathan Redberg: We have not in Minnesota apart from Minnetonka which has I think been in process
for gosh 2 years now. We’re still kind of looking at options with other local businesses and what some of
the things we can do there are. The response in Minnesota has been overwhelming. Our stores have done
really well. Actually just a family friend who lives a little bit north from here and she says she loves to
shop at the Chanhassen Target because she feels they have the best apparel selection but often times will
end up going past and going down to Chaska because of the convenience of the grocery and being able to
buy wine and some of those other things so a lot of that is what we’re trying to address with the remodel
with this store and making sure that it’s really meeting all the needs of everyone that shops there and part
of that is obviously adult bev so that’s really what we’re trying to do with this. With this space.
Councilwoman Ryan: Okay. And in terms of Minnetonka, maybe this isn’t something that you can
answer but the reason for denial. Do they have limits in number of liquor licenses in Minnetonka?
Jonathan Redberg: Yeah. They have a city policy on the maximum number of licenses and so we had
been asking for an exception to that which they weren’t able to give and so now we’re just addressing
whether there’s a different approach that we can take.
Councilwoman Ryan: Okay, thank you.
Mayor Laufenburger: Any other questions of any of the visitors? Alright.
Dave Harrington: Can I just make a comment?
Mayor Laufenburger: I’m just going to ask you to hold off just for a second Mr. Harrington. Any
questions of staff?
Councilwoman Ryan: I do.
Mayor Laufenburger: Go ahead. Go ahead Councilmember Ryan.
Councilwoman Ryan: Just a few more questions. I think, well I have a couple questions but if we can jut
address the process. I don’t know who can do that. Ms. Aanenson or Mr. Gerhardt. I know there’s a
concern. We’re heard it. I’m sure you have heard it about the perception of this being approved prior to
it coming before council based on construction taking place. I know you’re going through a remodel in
the Target as a whole but from the exterior so if we can, if someone can explain the process. Not only the
liquor license but has there been any construction done? Do they need to get the liquor license before
their building permits are granted? Could you just explain that process to me please?
Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Gerhardt or Ms. Aanenson you want to address that? Mr. Gerhardt.
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, City Council members. In a lot of processes, especially in the restaurant industry
they’ll start construction prior to getting a liquor license and Target, I do not know if they’ve started any
construction in the liquor side of their remodeling but all of those jurisdictions and businesses are taking
risk at their own cost. And for some reason the council would deny the liquor license and they made
those improvements they would have to do something different so they are taking that risk on themselves.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
Councilwoman Ryan: Okay. And then obviously, and you said that you went through the background
checks and everything came clear with that. When we, I know Target is part of the PUD and at that time
liquor was an approved use. Looking forward and I just, I don’t recall with Avienda is liquor an approved
use? I mean should we anticipate another liquor license coming?
Kate Aanenson: When they talked about the larger scale grocery store going up there, that was something
that we had talked about. We talked about the number of driveways that they definitely wanted a
pharmacy. We talked about potential liquor. I’m not sure where they are still with the large grocery store
up there. If that’s still something they’re contemplating.
Councilwoman Ryan: But was it an approved use in the PUD for Avienda? I guess the question is.
Kate Aanenson: I believe so.
Councilwoman Ryan: Okay, okay.
Todd Gerhardt: We’ll double check on that and get back to council on that just to make sure.
Councilwoman Ryan: Okay. I think that’s it for right now for staff.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, anybody else questions of staff? Mr. Knutson.
Roger Knutson: Just to point out something.
Mayor Laufenburger: Yep.
Roger Knutson: You have an ordinance that regulates the issuance of on-sale and off-sale licenses and
that ordinance is based upon requirements of Minnesota Statues 340A. When you decide whether or
approve or deny a license you have to look at our ordinance and the question is, because you’re acting in
what’s called a quasi judicial manner. That means you’re applying existing law, which is your ordinance
to the facts and the question for you do they meet the requirements of the ordinance. If they do then they
get approved and if they don’t then you shouldn’t approve it.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay.
Roger Knutson: It’s not whether you like it or don’t like it. It’s whether they meet the requirements of
the ordinance.
Mayor Laufenburger: And Mr. Knutson related to that you mentioned the State Statute. Is it the State
Statute that requires us as a city to approve the license?
Roger Knutson: Yes.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. So the State Statute essentially says to all cities it is your responsibility to
approve or disapprove the license.
Roger Knutson: Yes.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. And you just said that we have an ordinance in place.
Roger Knutson: Yes sir.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. And does the language of that ordinance now or has it ever restricted the
number of licenses?
Roger Knutson: Well there’s a restriction under State law right now.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, and what is that restriction Mr. Knutson?
Roger Knutson: It’s based on the size of the city. For the City of Chanhassen it’s 18 off-sale licenses.
Mayor Laufenburger: And is that based on population?
Roger Knutson: Yes.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. So the State of Minnesota has determined that the maximum number of off-
sale liquor licenses that we can issue is 18?
Roger Knutson: That’s correct.
Mayor Laufenburger: So, and that’s based on population similar to Chaska and other communities our
size is that correct?
Roger Knutson: Based on population, yes.
Mayor Laufenburger: Based on population, okay. Alright. Okay. Mr. Harrington could I ask you to step
to the podium for just a second? You had a question I think and it was related to Minnetonka, is that
correct?
Dave Harrington: Yeah I wanted to comment on the Minnetonka license situation and again I’m doing
from looking at the Star Tribune online and different news reports but it’s an interesting juxtaposition in
how Minnetonka has approached their issues versus how Chanhassen’s approaching it and I didn’t know
it was an 18 limit. What I’ve learned from Chanhassen there is no cap on licenses currently.
Mayor Laufenburger: There was at one time.
Dave Harrington: There was at one time. That was reversed in 2000, when the wine shop came in.
Mayor Laufenburger: Four. Wine Styles right.
Dave Harrington: Thank you. Minnetonka it’s my understanding they’ve capped their licenses at 12 and
they’re a community of about 55,000 to 56,000 people. They currently have 10 operating off-sale
licenses so his comment that they’ve applied but been denied is true but it’s not because they’re at the
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
limit. They’ve decided to manage that segment of business and development in the community is my
opinion so I just wanted to comment on that.
Mayor Laufenburger: Appreciate your opinion on that Mr. Harrington.
Dave Harrington: And then secondly regarding construction beginning. It’s no secret the construction’s
begun. Chanhassen Target has a sign up announcing that they’re opening soon but you’re correct.
They’re doing it at their risk. They’re taking the risk that this council’s going to say no, we’re not going
to approve it. That’s not going to happen so again requirements of the ordinance to approve or
disapprove is a concern for me because what I’m concerned about is that the cap is 18. What is to stop
Cub Foods who operates separate licenses and etcetera, etcetera from just, and I’m asking this as a
concerned citizen. If everybody came forward and said we want a license what grounds would the
council have legally to say we disapprove?
Mayor Laufenburger: Right. Well thank you Mr. Harrington.
Dave Harrington: Thank you.
Mayor Laufenburger: I appreciate that clarification.
Dave Harrington: I appreciate it.
Mayor Laufenburger: I think the, well I cannot speak to why Minnetonka is doing what they’re doing.
Like you I’ve read articles and, but I don’t know the make-up of that 7 member council and how they
vote yay or nay and my primary concern is obviously the Chanhassen City Council. Is there any other
questions of staff at this time?
Councilwoman Ryan: I just have one then of Mr. Knutson.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay.
Councilwoman Ryan: And just because I don’t understand the legalese behind it. If we don’t have, what
are we approving or denying? If we don’t have an ordinance in place or, and we have to follow the city
and state law then what’s, why does it come to council to approve or deny this license? I mean if they’re
passing the background check that’s basically all that we have. If they fail the background check then we
can deny it but other than that we approve it.
Roger Knutson: Well it has to be zoned properly. If you want to put an on-sale, off-sale liquor
establishment in a residential, something that’s zoned exclusively.
Councilwoman Ryan: But since it’s a PUD and it’s.
Roger Knutson: If it’s allowed under the zoning you can look at what they’re doing and make sure that
they have a door to the exterior and they’ve complied with all the requirements.
Councilwoman Ryan: Okay.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
Roger Knutson: I should also point out, if you wanted to by ordinance you could reduce that number
from 18 to something less.
Mayor Laufenburger: But we couldn’t make it greater than 18?
Roger Knutson: Correct.
Mayor Laufenburger: In other words the State has the authority to manage our maximum number?
Roger Knutson: Yes.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, alright. You know Mr. Gerhardt were you here in 2004?
Todd Gerhardt: Yes.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. So according to the staff report, and I want to make sure I say this correctly.
According to the staff report in 2004, excuse me. In 2005, prior to 2005 there was a, the council had
amended the ordinance to limit the number of licenses to 4 so prior to 2005 there was an ordinance that
stated a limit to the licenses, correct?
Todd Gerhardt: Yes.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. But in 2005 the council changed that ordinance and essentially established a
new policy or a new practice that said, and I’m quoting from the staff report. After surveying our key
financial cities only 2 of the 10 restricted the number of off-sale licenses. The council felt, the council as
a body, five members, felt that the market would regulate the number of stores and therefore removed the
restriction on the number of off-sale licenses altogether. So that was done in 2005 so by matter of
ordinance the City does have a current policy and that policy will remain in effect until the policy is
changed.
Todd Gerhardt: That’s correct.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, alright. So I think Councilmember Ryan, I think we as council members we
can vote as we choose but I think Mr. Knutson is saying that it’s not unreasonable for Target to come
forward looking at the ordinance and say I’m complying with the zoning. I’m complying with all of the
building code restrictions. I’ve complied with the background check. It’s reasonable for them to have an
expectation that the council would approve the license. Does that make sense?
Councilwoman Ryan: Well it, what you’re saying is absolutely makes sense but when, and we talk about
we have the choice to approve it or deny it but if legally because they’re following and this was the same
conundrum that I personally faced when Total Wine came before us. It was that we legally do not have
the right or authority as long as they’re following the ordinances that we can’t deny this liquor license and
I just am challenged by that. I mean I voted against it because I didn’t, and actually Mr. Zeller I like the
way you put it when you talk about a store of convenience versus a destination and I like the way that you
distinguish between the two but I just, I struggle with the legal side of approving or denying a license
because you don’t want that store here if it meets all ordinances so I, I’m just I’m challenged by that.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
And I don’t know, I guess that’s not even a question. I just, I’m challenged by that. The situation that
we’re put in when we don’t really have the authority unless we of course change the ordinance.
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, council.
Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Gerhardt, go ahead.
Todd Gerhardt: To answer.
Mayor Laufenburger: Just a moment. I know there are people that are present that would really like to
talk about this but even the slightest mumbling is distracting to us so I just ask that you respect the
council and hold your conversations down. Thank you very much. Mr. Gerhardt.
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, council members. In this situation you can be less restrictive than the State so
you could go back to 2005 and put the limit of number of liquor stores that can be in the community and
then similar to what Minnetonka has in their’s. They may not be at that limit, I’m not sure but they put a
limit on it and you can put a distance inbetween them if you want and you can restrict the zoning but back
in 2005 you know the council looked at it as a free market enterprise system and decided not to put a limit
on the number of liquor stores. And it’s the stronger will survive type mentality back then and I’m not
saying it’s right. Not saying it’s wrong but that’s the direction that we went in 2005. So I leave it up to
council to direct staff if there’s anything else that you’d want to see different.
Mayor Laufenburger: I think that, I expect that some council members may have, want to make some
comments on this but I would ask is there any motion that anyone would like to make at this time?
Councilwoman Ryan: Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Laufenburger: Councilmember Ryan.
Councilwoman Ryan: I would like to make a motion that we table this discussion until we can have a
work session. I’ve learned, let me pull up the dates. I would like to make a motion that we table this vote
thth
until our March 12 meeting and ask that we have work session meeting on the 26 to review the liquor
license ordinance.
Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Knutson would you consider that a valid motion?
Roger Knutson: Yes Mayor.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, alright. We have a motion to table usually refers to something within the
th
meeting but I’m going to change the word and call it continue. Continue this action until March 12
alright. Is there a second to that? There being no second that motion fails for lack of a second. Is there
any other motion that would like to be made at this time?
Councilman McDonald: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Laufenburger: Yes Councilmember McDonald.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
Councilman McDonald: I’ll make a motion that the City Council approves the request for an off-sale
intoxicating liquor license from Target Corporation doing business as Target Store T-0862 located at 851
th
West 78 Street. Approval of the license would be contingent upon issuance of a certificate of
occupancy, satisfactory background investigation results, and final approval by the Minnesota Alcohol
and Gambling Department.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, we have a valid motion. Is there a second?
Councilman Campion: Second.
Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Campion. Alright any discussion?
Councilwoman Ryan: Yes Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Laufenburger: Councilmember Ryan, go ahead.
Councilwoman Ryan: I’d just like to share some of my thoughts I’ve written down throughout the
meeting and in preparation for the meeting. This is a tough decision for me. Mr. Redberg, thank you for
addressing the concern. It was one of biggest concerns about the store access so thank you for that. But
here are a couple of the reasons, or things that I struggle with. I don’t like the perception of this being a
done deal but thank you Mr. Gerhardt for explaining the risk that Target’s willing to take. I know one of
the residents that spoke today, this evening asked about did we receive feedback from people. Yes we
did. We received not, I know we didn’t get emails from the businesses but we did, or I did get feedback
from a dozen or so residents that did oppose this license. Personally speaking I struggle with this. Not
necessarily just from Target but I’m, I have young children in the Minnetonka School District and I’m
part of the organization called Tonka Cares which is a community coalition that works to reduce
substance abuse within the Minnetonka School District and so when I look at Target and I think of it as a
family place and doing Target runs, I struggle with that balance of having a liquor store associated with a
Target. I know Byerly’s has it. I know there’s liquor stores around. I’m not opposed to liquor stores.
It’s just I struggle a little bit with kind of that conflicting message and similar to some of the folks here
tonight I think the biggest thing that I struggle with is having 5, you know 5 to 6, 5, if this is approved
liquor licenses within basically one square mile and I don’t like that. I know that it’s allowed in terms of
the PUD. I understand that it’s allowed because we don’t have an ordinance and that is really why I had
hoped that we could table it because we know that more, or we can anticipate there will be more liquor
stores, liquor licenses being applied for in the city and whether it’s downtown. Whether it’s as Mr.
Gerhardt alluded to, you know the proximity to one another. I think part of the responsibility and my
view of council is to have a better understanding of what that mix of business looks like and how it lays
out in our downtown and in our city. I’m absolutely a proponent and favor of you know a free and open
market. I understand the philosophy behind that but again I do believe that it’s our responsibility to guide
that mix of businesses. As I had mentioned to Ms. Aanenson I would like, again I had hoped that we
could table it and have a discussion amongst council but I would ask that we have this part of, we’re in
the process of a downtown vision study that I know started from the apartment complex and Aldi’s
grocery store but I would also like to take a look into liquor stores and liquor licenses in our downtown
area. So you know I guess I’m just disappointed that we can’t take the time to discuss this as a council to
see if this is right for our downtown area.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Any other comments? Mr. Campion.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
Councilman Campion: Yeah I have some comments.
Mayor Laufenburger: Go ahead.
Councilman Campion: So I want to explain my thinking on this. You know as we were discussing, if we
want to change the number of, the limit on the number of liquor stores within our city we can change the
ordinance. We you know just earlier tonight voted on our personal council’s priority for our key financial
strategies, goals for 2018 and you know we haven’t decided to, that this was a pressing issue that we
needed to address. I’m personally in agreement with the earlier council decision back in 2005 to let the
free market decide here and I think it has happened right? I mean when we were discussing Total Wine,
before Total Wine opened one of those two stores that has closed since had already closed prior to Total
Wine opening and I you know see the other then closed after so we’re, you know we’re back in a similar
situation as we were then where this will take us back to 7 right? After Total Wine we didn’t decide to
revisit this topic which I think would be more the appropriate time. I don’t think we go and change our
ordinance based on one business supplying for a license. I’m open to discussing and revisiting that policy
later but yeah I want to let the free market decide which businesses thrive within our community and
which you know don’t make it and as that plays out we should have businesses within our community
that try to service better through better products or better service and those should be the ones that end up
surviving.
Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you. Anything else Mr. Campion?
Councilman Campion: No.
Mayor Laufenburger: Good comments thank you. Mr. McDonald did you want to say anything?
Councilman McDonald: Thank you Mr. Mayor. I wasn’t on the council back in 2005 but I did agree
with the decision. I believe that the free market is what makes Chanhassen strong. I’ve been through
enough, at one point we had too many banks and there were people that came to the council and wanted
us to put ordinances in place to limit the number of banks. We had too many daycare centers. We needed
to do something about that especially too many high end daycare centers. This thing about liquor stores
has been around for a while but I was yet to see any kind of evidence from anything that would say that
any of the liquor stores in this community have been detrimental to the health or welfare of this
community. They’ve all been good neighbors. They’ve abided by the rules. By the law and I think that’s
all we can ask of them. We put in place the rules and regulations for people who want to come in and do
business in this community and as long as they follow it we should welcome them within the community.
I am a great believer that if you cannot compete then you’re not going to survive. That is the way
business is. It’s a matter of serving your customers. Listening to the feedback of people. One of the
things that was brought up about the local wineries and everything, or the local brew pubs or anyone who
makes anything local, I think Surly is a great example of that. What they did was they got enough
feedback from their customers to go out and talk to people and they wound up in stores. They’re very
intrusive within the entire community. I think that’s the advantage of a small local winery or a distillery
or anyone who works within the community to supply that type of product or any type of product. If you
get a loyal following you will grow and I think that’s something that I would expect a Target or a Total
Wine or any of the other larger stores to acknowledge and accept and thus far I do notice that within these
stores you do see a lot more local product than I’ve seen before in the past. Is it enough? Probably not
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
but I think that’s a job of both the supplier of the product and also of the people who consume the product
to make their desire and wishes known to the retailers. Again do we have enough liquor stores? I don’t
know. I guess you know as long as people decide they’re going to shop the answer is well we could
probably always use one more. Until people start saying that enough is enough I don’t need to go to all
these different liquor stores people will continue to come into this market and say this is a good market
for this business and I want to do business here and I think that we as a council what we need to look at is
to make sure that we have the proper rules in place and we adhere to state law. To the ordinances and that
as long as everyone is law abiding I think they should be welcomed so at that point I mean I intend to
support this and those are the reasons why.
Mayor Laufenburger: Alright thank you Mr. McDonald. I want to express just a few of my comments as
well. Like has been expressed already I am a believer in the free market system and I looked at I think
Mr. Hagen I think you said you were a business owner, is that correct? Mr. Hagen or you were a previous
owner.
Mark Hagen: Not an owner but.
Mayor Laufenburger: But you had been in business right. I took an economics course back in my college
days and there was a lot of discussion about supply and demand and I heard about this concept that Adam
Smith proposed back in the early days of America called the Theory of the Invisible Hand. Some of you
may have heard of that but it’s interpreted as follows regarding the free market and it states that if each
consumer, individuals, if each consumer is allowed to choose freely what to buy and at what price and
each producer is allowed to choose freely what to sell and at what price, then the market over time will
settle on a product distribution and a pricing that is beneficial to all the individual members of the
community and therefore to the community as a whole. I recognize that in Chanhassen we license two
businesses. Two types of businesses. By State Statute we license off-sale and on-sale liquor licenses.
Liquor establishments. We are obligated to, we are required to by State Statute. The other business that
we license is massage parlors. Massage therapists and we did that by choice so that we could manage the
types of people that were opening massage therapy outlets in Chanhassen. All other businesses are not
licensed and I think there’s a real good reason for that. You know Mr. McDonald brought up the
comment banks. Well how many banks should we have? How many daycare centers should we have?
How many dentists should, do we need in Chanhassen? How many chiropractors do we need in
Chanhassen? How many gas stations do we need in Chanhassen? How many car washes? How many
dog care facilities do we need? Well I think there is an answer to that question and let me relate it to
liquor stores. The question seems to be how many liquor stores do we need in Chanhassen? And the
second question that I ask is who should decide? I’m a believer that government should not decide how
many liquor stores are needed in Chanhassen. I believe that’s a decision that the consumer should make
as long as it’s not more than 18. Because that’s what the State has limited us to. Now let me assure you
this, and I think Councilmember Ryan said this. We will get more liquor license applications. The City
of Chanhassen we have anticipated growth in our community to 36,000 people. Mr. Harrington your
comparisons are valid. I looked at the same things that you did but if we have the same number of liquor
outlets that Carver does, off-sale outlets and I’m saying Harvey’s is an off-sale. Yes they’re on-sale as
well but you can walk out of there with intoxicating liquor. If we have the same number of outlets per
household in Chanhassen that they do in Carver we’d have 26 liquor stores. Well we can’t have that
many because the State’s limited us to 18 based on population but I would suspect that if we grow to
36,000 people we’re allowed a couple more liquor stores, is that correct Mr. Knutson? Probably so. So
who should decide? So the two questions are how many liquor stores are needed in Chanhassen and who
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
should decide. Well I’ve decided for me personally. I need zero. I don’t need any liquor stores but I’m
not responsible for making a decision for me personally when I sit on the council. I’m responsible for
making a decision in the best interest of the entire community so this is, you know the arguments that I
hear are valid arguments. The business is being whittled away. These liquor stores offer more than just a
bottle on a shelf. They offer convenience as Mr. Redberg said. Some of the liquor stores offer a loyalty
programs. Some offer wine tastings. Beer tastings. Each of them have a value proposition that they offer
to attract consumers. I applaud that. There’s a saying, you build a better mousetrap and the consumers
will beat a pathway to your door. I think that Target may offer a little bit different mousetrap than some
of the other liquor stores. And is it true that likely some of those liquor stores that are in place today will
close over time? Probably. Will any of the grocery stores in town close over time? Probably. How
about the dry cleaners? Probably. This is going to happen. I mean we’ve got a hotel in town that’s likely
going to turn over. Why? Because they’ve decided that they don’t want to be in the hotel business
anymore. Should we say ah, ah, ah, you can’t close because you’re providing a valuable service? No.
That’s not our responsibility so as other members of the council have stated I too believe in a free market
system. As free as it can be and this is a perfectly good example. I want to conclude with one other
comment. Councilmember Ryan if you decide or if you would like to have the council talk about limiting
the liquor license I think that will be a robust conversation. I don’t know that the outcome will be any
better than it is right now in your view but I think it’s a conversation that could be had. The fact that it
was last had in 2005, I think it’s worthwhile to have it again so with that, is there any other comment at
this time?
Councilwoman Ryan: May I make one more comment please?
Mayor Laufenburger: You certainly can Councilmember Ryan.
Councilwoman Ryan: And just because I didn’t actually say what, how I wanted to vote but I, a vote
matters to me. To all of us but what it signifies means something really important and so I can’t vote in
favor of this because of the reasons that I stated but it is, and that was why I wanted to delay the vote
because I wanted to have the discussion but I also can’t deny this. Or approve this because I would have
preferred to have a discussion before we make a decision so I will be abstaining from the vote. If that’s
allowed.
Mayor Laufenburger: Absolutely. You can choose not to vote. So we have a motion in front of us to
approve the liquor license for Target. Is there any further discussion? There being none. Perhaps I
misstated. She’s allowed to abstain.
Roger Knutson: Oh yes.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, that’s what I thought. There being no further discussion.
Councilman McDonald moved, Councilman Campion seconded that the City Council approves the
request for an off-sale intoxicating liquor license from Target Corporation dba Target Store T-0862
th
located at 851 West 78 Street. Approval of the liquor license would be contingent upon issuance of
a certificate of occupancy, satisfactory background investigation results, and final approval by the
Minnesota Alcohol and Gambling Department. All voted in favor except for Councilwoman Ryan
who abstained. The motion carried with a vote of 3 to 0 with 1 abstention.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
Mayor Laufenburger: That motion carries 3-0 with Councilmember Ryan abstaining. Citizens thank you
very much for your input and I would just ask if you are, if you’re happy with the liquor store that you
buy at right now, continue to patronize them. And if you’re looking for the convenience that Target’s
offering, buy from them as well so thank you very much.
PUBLIC HEARING: APPROVE VACATION OF EASEMENTS AT 7721 ERIE AVENUE
(NUSTAD).
Mayor Laufenburger: Who’s item is this? Mr. Oehme is this your’s?
Paul Oehme: Yep this is mine.
Mayor Laufenburger: Alright, go ahead.
Paul Oehme: Thank you Mayor, City Council members. This again is a vacation of right-of-way for
7721 Erie Avenue.
Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Oehme I’m just going to ask, let’s take about a 2 minute recess in case
anybody wants to leave they can do so without feeling like they’re interrupting the council so we will take
about a 2 minute recess. Thank you for coming out folks.
There was a short recess at this point in the meeting.
Mayor Laufenburger: We reconvene the City Council meeting after that brief recess and the item we’re
talking about is approving a vacation of easements at 7721 Erie Avenue. Mr. Oehme, this is your’s is that
correct?
Paul Oehme: That’s correct Mayor, City Council members. This is again for vacation for Rick and
Elizabeth Nustad on their property, or adjacent to their property. So this is a, the parcel in question is at
the intersection of Erie Avenue and Chan View shown here. That’s just a little bit north and east of the
downtown. The original parcels out here were platted in 1897 and originally that was, there was an alley
way that was dedicated at that time shown here just south of the property. The City does not have any
need for that alley way and we do have utilities in that easement and there are also some private utilities
in that easement so the City and staff is not against the vacation of the easement here. It’s an 8 foot
easement. The alley way is 16 feet so half of it would go to each of the adjacent properties so the
property to the south would request a vacation. He would also be considered for that vacation. So the,
and again the vacation is shown here in yellow. Again Gopher State was called on this. There are some
private utilities in the easement so we’re requesting that if a vacation of this right-of-way be granted that a
drainage and utility easement be covered over that 8 foot of vacated right-of-way. With that I would
stand for questions and would request that a public hearing be opened for this item as well.
Mayor Laufenburger: Alright, thank you Mr. Oehme. Before I open this public hearing is there any
questions of staff by council? Mr. McDonald, go ahead.
Councilman McDonald: Mr. Oehme I guess I understand then that the City is willing to give up what was
the alley way but we still retained an easement in that same area so does this mean that we return the
property to the homeowner but they cannot put any kind of structures within the easement?
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
Paul Oehme: That’s correct. So we would request that, since there is a sanitary sewer that’s out here, if
we ever needed to maintain it or make improvements to it or replace that it would stay out of that
easement so we won’t have to remove any of their structures or sheds or anything else that would be in
this easement area.
Councilman McDonald: Okay and is this the same down the street to the east I believe where the alley
ran?
Paul Oehme: Yep. Oops I’m sorry. Yeah so right in I believe this property owner vacated a section of
the alley a few years ago as well so it’s, there is other properties in this neighborhood that have requested
vacations of easements. Vacation of the right-of-way and the City at that time has considered it and
granted I believe all of them.
Councilman McDonald: Okay.
Kate Aanenson: If I may Mayor, members of the council.
Mayor Laufenburger: Go ahead.
Kate Aanenson: This came about based on the fact that a variance was applied for on this lot and one of
the requests from the Planning Commission was if they could reduce their hard cover by vacating that.
While they don’t, can’t put a structure over it, it still counts towards green space so they were working on
this while they were going through the variance process and we would have had it done a couple weeks
ago but for the snow storm but so this was kind of in process with that application.
Councilman McDonald: Thank you.
Mayor Laufenburger: Any other questions of staff?
Councilwoman Ryan: So this will increase their lot size so they don’t have to ask for a variance?
Kate Aanenson: They did have to ask for a variance. It helps reduce the amount of green cover.
Councilwoman Ryan: Okay.
Kate Aanenson: So the Planning Commission did recommend approval and a super majority so it doesn’t
come forward to you but one of the conditions that they asked them to do is to get a variance and they had
submitted the variance application at the time of the approval of the variance.
Councilwoman Ryan: Okay.
Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Oehme you mentioned something about 8 feet will be given to the other
property. Should we expect to see a vacation request from the other property or does this vacation request
cover both properties?
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
Paul Oehme: This vacation request is just for the Nustad’s. The property owner to the south would have
to go through the same process that the Nustad’s.
Mayor Laufenburger: And in anticipation if they choose to do that we would likely grant it?
Paul Oehme: That would be up to the council to decide.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, alright. Okay. At this time I’d like to open the public hearing on this. The
vacation of this utility so the public hearing is open. Are the Nustad’s present with us this evening? Is
there anything you’d like to say to the council? Wise choice. Thank you. Anybody else who would like
to speak regarding this matter?
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor and council I’d just like to note that in 1887 alleys were very important.
Mayor Laufenburger: Times change Mr. Gerhardt. Times change.
Roger Knutson: Are you speaking from personal experience?
Mayor Laufenburger: Alright, since nobody else is coming forward I will close the public hearing at this
time and bring it back to the council for comment or action. Anybody?
Councilman McDonald: Mr. Mayor if I could I’d like to.
Mayor Laufenburger: Just a second. Did you have a comment?
Councilwoman Ryan: No, no. Mr. McDonald may go ahead.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay Mr. McDonald go ahead.
Councilman McDonald: Well I didn’t want to steal all the motions.
Mayor Laufenburger: Well wait yeah, I think I did hear her voice just a moment before. Councilmember
Ryan did you want to say something?
Councilwoman Ryan: No I was going to make a motion.
Mayor Laufenburger: Please do. Please do. We like variety here at this Chanhassen City Council.
Councilwoman Ryan: Alright I’d like to make the motion that the City Council adopts the resolution
approving the vacation of a portion of the public right-of-way dedicated as the north one half of the alley
dedicated in Block 2, St. Hubertus lying easterly of Erie Avenue and westerly of the southerly extension
of the east like of Lot 12, Block 2 all in Chanhassen, Carver County, Minnesota retaining a drainage and
utility easement over the vacated portion of the alley.
Mayor Laufenburger: We have a valid motion. Is there a second?
Councilman Campion: Second.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Campion. Any further discussion?
Resolution #2018-18: Councilwoman Ryan moved, Councilman Campion seconded that the City
Council adopts the resolution approving the vacation of a portion of the public right-of-way
dedicated as the north one half of the alley dedicated in Block 2, St. Hubertus lying easterly of Erie
Avenue and westerly of the southerly extension of the east line of Lot 12, Block 2 all in Chanhassen,
Carver County, Minnesota retaining a drainage and utility easement over the vacated portion of
the alley. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0.
Mayor Laufenburger: That motion carries. Thank you very much. Congratulations Nustad’s. You
weren’t here in 1897 were you?
Rick Nustad: My great, great grandfather was.
Mayor Laufenburger: Very good, very good. So that would be a century lot that you own right? Okay,
very interesting. Anyway congratulations, thank you.
AWARD OF BID FOR LAKE SUSAN PARK BALLFIELD LIGHTING.
Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Hoffman is this your’s?
Todd Hoffman: It is.
Mayor Laufenburger: Alright, go ahead.
Todd Hoffman: Thank you Honorable Mayor and members of the City Council. This evening we have
with us Mr. Craig Gallop representing Musco Sports Lighting and then we also have a couple members of
our staff here representing the parks and recreation department, Jerry Ruegemer and Adam Beers. We’re
happy that this item is the award of bid for Lake Susan ballfield lighting. The proposed motion to the
City Council is that the City Council approves a purchase agreement with Musco Sports Lighting, LLC in
the amount of $209,811 for LED Foundation to Poletop Lighting System for Lake Susan baseball field. It
requires a simple majority vote. The budget for the entire project is $305,000. This represents the
lighting system itself. The poles. The fixtures and then there will be a contractor that we hire as a part of
a separate approval by the City Council in a few weeks to install the system at Lake Susan Park. Musco
Sports Lighting system can be purchased directly by the City through the National Joint Powers Alliance.
Cooperative purchase contract ensuring the best value for the City. The City is a member of that
association and we can take advantage of that value pricing. The project features new technology LED
diode light source fixtures with 52 total light control factory aimed and assembled luminaries. The
Musco LED total light control system will save the City an estimated $100,000 over a 25 year period as
compared to standard 1500 watt metal halide lighting system. Cost savings include utility, power source,
maintenance and operation to control the lighting system. In addition Musco LED total light control
system will eliminate unwanted spill light, glare light and sky glow making lighting, the lighting
environmentally friendly to residential and traffic areas. Again it’s recommended that the City Council
approve a purchase agreement tonight that’s attached in the amount of $209,811 for this lighting system
with Musco Sports Lighting. I’d be happy to answer any questions of the council and Mr. Gallop could
also answer questions if you have specific questions on the lighting system.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, thank you Mr. Hoffman. Any questions of staff by council? Mr.
McDonald, please.
Councilman McDonald: Yeah I’ve been trying to picture in my mind what do these lights look like?
What are they compared to? I mean you say they’re LED’s. Is that like what’s on automobiles nowadays
so it’s going to be more of a blue light or does it take more lights to replace the sodium lights that we see
on like the ballfield up at the high school? What are we exactly getting?
Todd Hoffman: Mr. Gallop can…show you those.
Mayor Laufenburger: Good evening Mr. Gallop. Nice to have you here.
Craig Gallop: Good evening Mayor, good evening council members. I’m Craig Gallop with Musco
Sports Lighting. I’m happy to be here tonight and the question is a very good question. Why, what is the
advantage of LED over traditional lighting? What does it look like and I could stand up here and try to
explain it but a picture’s worth a 1,000 words and so what I’m going to do is show you two pictures of
LED lighting on a baseball field which will be very similar to what your lighting will look at Lake Susan
Park. What you see on the picture is a nicely, a very nicely lit field. This will be about the same light
level, 50 foot candles infield, 30 foot outfield as the light at Lake Susan. The real thing that LED brings
is, if you look at the fixtures there’s not a harsh glare. It’s a very subdued type of light coming off of the
fixtures. Glare light is held to a minimum. I’m going to show you another picture as a comparison so
you can get a little better view. Basically the same scenario. Top fixtures are LED lighting. The bottom
fixtures are metal halide or a type of lighting that has a gas lamp. More of a traditional type of lighting.
See the LED for the neighbors, for the environment is much friendlier than the LED. Glare is about,
reduced by about 80 percent, 85 percent so it’s a nicer light to play under plus for the environment it’s a
much better light because there’s little glare. Little spill light. Once that light exceeds the property line
within about 40 to 50 feet it gets dark. It cuts off so it does not affect other properties. So that’s the real
advantage of the LED over traditional type of metal halide lighting.
Councilman McDonald: Let me ask you another question then. In the bottom picture there’s a stand. Is
that stand up in the top picture? I mean is this the same football field and it just kind of disappears
because of where it’s at in the lighting or?
Craig Gallop: It’s actually a different picture but it’s, it’s a typical football field. It’s actually, the stands,
the area immediately around the field that still will have light in it but once it gets to extended distance
away the metal halide kind of keeps carrying where the LED cuts off.
Councilman McDonald: Okay well let me ask you this. Are you familiar with the football field at
Chanhassen High School?
Craig Gallop: I am.
Councilman McDonald: And you know that, you know whenever they play a night game it does kind of
shine out into the neighborhood. With these LED’s over at Lake Susan, again there are, there’s trees but
there’s neighborhoods just past that. Are they going to experience the same thing as far as I guess light
creepage up to their house or will it be subdued?
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
Craig Gallop: No. Actually the lighting at Chanhassen High School is Musco lighting but it’s the, it’s a
metal halide type of fixture and that light as I mentioned, it will continue to carry so that spill light
extends out. Plus the other as, definition of spill light is measurable light. You can take a light meter and
you can walk at the field you have X number of foot candles. You walk to the residential property line
you have X number of foot candles. It’s very measureable. Glare light on the other hand is very
subjective. When you’re looking back at the lighting from a distance some people can look at it and say
gee that light is so bright it hurts my eyes. Other people say well I see light but it doesn’t hurt my eyes
quite. But with the LED lighting, whether you know you’re very light sensitive or not light sensitive,
once you’re looking back where like the homes were at Chanhassen High School you’ll see nothing.
You’ll see very, at most a very dull glow where the light is kind of shining off the top portion of the pole
and that’s about it.
Councilman McDonald: Okay, good.
Mayor Laufenburger: What’s the warm up time of the LED light?
Craig Gallop: I’m sorry.
Mayor Laufenburger: What’s the warm up time?
Craig Gallop: Oh the LED is instant so that’s, you turn it on. It’s an instant light where the metal halide
it’s a warm up period. Generally 7 to 8 minutes plus if for some reason you shut that metal halide light
off there’s a 7-8, 10 minute cool down period before they’ll fire again so from a safety standpoint with the
metal halide you could be in the dark for basically 10 to 15 minutes where with the LED instantly it
comes right back on.
Mayor Laufenburger: Good. Any other questions for Mr. Gallop? Before you go I want to ask a
question of Mr. Hoffman. I read comments about in previous correspondence there was discussion about
a change in design. Do you recall that?
Todd Hoffman: I do.
Mayor Laufenburger: Can you speak to that at all Mr. Hoffman?
Todd Hoffman: Sure can. So there was a modest change in design and that was based on some onsite
meetings we had with the Athletic Association representatives. Mr. Gallop and the change was to take
the center field and put an arch in it instead of the straight fence now and so just to lengthen the field by
another 20 to 30 feet and that change in lighting design was to accommodate that additional field space so
if we make the decision to arch that field. Get center field from about 350 to 380 feet in depth, then we
can accommodate that.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Like the old Yankee Stadium, okay.
Todd Hoffman: So just planning ahead so we make sure we’ve got that covered.
Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Gallop, how long has Musco Sports Lighting been in business?
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
Craig Gallop: Musco’s been in business since 1975. Today we do in Minnesota in the area of 90 to 95
percent of all the outdoor athletic lighting in the state.
Mayor Laufenburger: Wow.
Craig Gallop: We have dominated the market not because Craig Gallop’s a great salesman. I’m not. It’s
a company that has advanced tremendously. Almost every major improvement in athletic lighting over
the last 20 years has come from Musco Sports Lighting so that is why, what we provide is a 25 year
warranty. Covers parts, labor, lamps. The City for 25 years will not touch that lighting. Will not have to
provide any type of maintenance budgeting for that lighting. It is all covered by Musco’s warranty.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Where’s your headquarters?
Craig Gallop: Headquarters, I’m the local rep here in Minnesota. The headquarters is in the booming
metropolis of Oskaloosa, Iowa which is about 20, about 40 miles southeast of Des Moines.
Mayor Laufenburger: And how many employees?
Craig Gallop: 1,300 employees. It started out as a small company with about 15 employees back in
1975. Today there’s over 1,300 employees worldwide.
Mayor Laufenburger: Good. Well we have office space available in Chanhassen in case the company
ever decides they want to move.
Craig Gallop: I would love to see it come here.
Mayor Laufenburger: We consider ourselves also a booming metropolis. Not so close to Des Moines
though. Thank you Mr. Gallop.
Craig Gallop: Thank you.
Mayor Laufenburger: Staff any other, excuse me. Council any other questions of staff at this time? Let’s
bring it back to the council for discussion or action. Mr. Campion.
Councilman Campion: I’ll make the motion.
Mayor Laufenburger: Alright, thank you. Spirit of variety here.
Councilman Campion: Variation. So the City Council approves the Purchase Agreement with Musco
Sports Lighting, LLC in the amount of $209,811 for LED Foundation to Poletop Lighting System for
Lake Susan Park Baseball Field.
Mayor Laufenburger: Alright, we have a valid motion. Is there a second?
Councilman McDonald: I’ll second.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. McDonald. Any further discussion? Just one comment. Mr.
Hoffman this is the contribution that was made earlier, the first two years of the donation by CAA is
specifically going towards this project, is that correct?
Todd Hoffman: That’s correct.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, alright. There being no further discussion.
Councilman Campion moved, Councilman McDonald seconded that the City Council approves the
Purchase Agreement with Musco Sports Lighting, LLC in the amount of $209,811 for LED
Foundation to Poletop Lighting System for Lake Susan Park Baseball Field. All voted in favor and
the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0.
Mayor Laufenburger: That motion carries 4-0. Thank you very much. Thank you Mr. Hoffman and good
luck Mr. Gallop. Pleased to have you in our community.
VARIANCE REQUEST: 3617 RED CEDAR POINT.
Mayor Laufenburger: Who’s is this? Is this MacKenzie’s, Mr. Walters?
MacKenzie Walters: This is mine.
Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Walters could you just clarify for us exactly why this is in front of the council
at this time?
MacKenzie Walters: Yeah absolutely. So this is, started out as Planning Case 2018-01 and the Planning
nd
Commission heard this on January 2. One of the citizens of our community appealed the decision of the
Planning Commission which means that it now goes to the City Council. The City Council has the
authority to affirm, remand or modify the Planning Commission’s decision in any way they deem
appropriate.
Mayor Laufenburger: Just a reminder the Planning Commission voted how on this variance request?
MacKenzie Walters: The Planning Commission voted 5 to 0 to approve this request.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, and as is allowed a member of the community has appealed that decision
and is asking for the City Council to make a final decision.
MacKenzie Walters: That is correct.
Mayor Laufenburger: Is our decision final?
MacKenzie Walters: Barring appeal to a District Court, yes.
Mayor Laufenburger: Can’t we just kick it over to you Mr. Knutson? No.
Roger Knutson: I think that’s what the law should be but right now it isn’t.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
Mayor Laufenburger: Yeah the law doesn’t recognize you as the final answer, is that what you’re saying?
Alright, Mr. Walters thank you for that clarification. Proceed.
MacKenzie Walters: So the applicant is requesting a 15 ½ foot front yard setback variance, a 22.1 foot
shoreland setback variance and an 11 percent hard cover variance to construct a detached single family
nd
home. So as I mentioned this did go before the Planning Commission on January 2. Just to briefly go
over some of the concerns that were heard during the public hearing. Residents expressed concern over
the snowplow turn around and snow storage. We can go into that in a little more detail but essentially
currently the snowplow uses the property to complete a turn around maneuver and also to snow store
during the winter. The residents have also expressed concern. Some of the neighbors expressed concerns
over the size of the lot cover variance being requested. The Planning Commissioners in their comments
expressed concern over the narrowness of the road on Red Cedar Point and potential access issues that
may come up during construction. They also expressed concern about the effectiveness of the proposed
pervious pavers that are to be used on this project. Concern was also expressed over whether or not the
driveway length could accommodate adequate off street parking and there was disappointment expressed
that the lot coverage was not more significantly reduced from it’s existing but as I mentioned earlier
th
ultimately they voted 5-0 to approve the variance with conditions. On January 8 we received an appeal
and as I mentioned the City Council has the authority to reverse, affirm, modify wholly or partly the
appeal decision and that’d be a simple majority vote.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay.
MacKenzie Walters: So the applicant provided us, sorry. The appellant provided us an appeal in writing.
They stated their concerns as the shortness of the driveway and it’s inability to provide sufficient off
street parking. They also felt that the proposed 3 car garage is oversized for the property. That the lot
coverage was excessive and that they felt that the home did not fit into the neighborhood and that
reasonable use of the property could be achieved with reduced variances. I would mention if you did read
the email submitted by the appellant they cited several things in the Findings of Fact. Those were from
Findings of Fact for denial of the variance that was drafted as a matter of practice. That was not the
Findings of Fact that was adopted by the Planning Commission so just in case there was any confusion on
that.
Mayor Laufenburger: You’re referring to the document that was applied as the appeal from the resident
of 3618 Red Cedar Point.
MacKenzie Walters: Yes, in the appeal they cite certain sentences from a Findings of Fact which was the,
a potential Findings of Fact that was not ultimately adopted.
Mayor Laufenburger: But that appeal, their appeal is still valid.
MacKenzie Walters: Absolutely.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay.
MacKenzie Walters: Yes.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, alright continue.
MacKenzie Walters: So now to go in just into a little bit of background. The property, 3617 Red Cedar
Point is zoned for residential single family. It is a riparian lot which means under our zoning code it
would ordinarily be required to have 20,000 square feet of lot area. It’d be limited to 25 percent lot
coverage, 30 foot front yard setback, 10 foot side yard setback, 75 foot shoreland setback, and then our
ordinance does allow a 250 square foot water oriented structure. This is the current house on the property
and the lot is substandard. It has 9,222 square feet so a little under half the size of what would ordinarily
be required by the ordinance. Existing lot coverage on the property is 3,353 square feet. It does currently
meet the front yard setback. It meets it’s east side setback but there is a shed or outhouse, depending on
how you talk to on the west side that’s about 4 feet off of the property line.
Mayor Laufenburger: We’re going to call it a shed by the way.
MacKenzie Walters: Absolutely.
Kate Aanenson: I think he meant out building.
MacKenzie Walters: Yes. I’ve heard both but yeah.
Mayor Laufenburger: A shed removes any ambiguity.
MacKenzie Walters: Absolutely.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay.
MacKenzie Walters: Accessory structure. And that is currently set back 52.9 feet from the ordinary high
water level of the lake. There is currently what we would call a water oriented accessory structure that’s
24 feet from the lake and is 114 square feet. I should also mention that just due to the age of this
neighborhood, for whatever reason the road was actually constructed partially on this parcel and we
exempt the 543 square feet of lot area and hard cover there from both the lot size calculations and it’s
impervious surface calculations. What the applicant is proposing to do is to remove the existing house.
The gravel parking area that exists in front, which is shown in red. The existing water oriented structure.
The existing walkway in back and to construct a new home with a 3 car tuck under garage, driveway,
walkway and 161 square foot water oriented structure in the form of a patio off the rear of the house. The
applicant’s justification is that given the substandard size of the house it would not be possible to
construct a home that within the bounds established by our zoning ordinance. The existing house is in a
deteriorating condition. It does not meet current ordinance in terms of minimum square footage and
absence of garage. They would be removing the non-conforming gravel driveway. The lot coverage
would be reduced by 34 square feet and the side yard setback by removing the shed would be brought into
conformance. The request they feel is consistent with other variances which have been granted in the
neighborhood. Of the 26 parcels within 500 feet 13 have been given variances. The neighbors have
contacted staff with some concerns. We received 4 emails and/or phone calls. One after just talking with
staff expressed that they had no objection to the, and 3 expressed concerns. Two spoke about the very
restricted parking in the neighborhood. Two were very concerned about the impervious surface and two
felt the proposed size of the house wasn’t suitable to the parcel or neighborhood. Staff did an estimate of
the parking in the neighborhood based on the aerial photos and Google street views. Just for some
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
reference our city code requires a 2 car garage with a 30 foot driveway. That’s going to provide
depending on the length of the right-of-way 4 to 6 spots for parking, 4 of those being off street outside the
garage. Looking through this neighborhood the average number of spaces between the garage and
driveway we estimate is 4 ½ per parcel. The applicant is proposing what staff counted as 4 off street
spaces. The applicant has stated that because his daughter drives a Jeep he believes the driveway will
hold up to 3 cars for a total of 6 spaces. With a Jeep I would certainly agree 2 cars on the driveway.
Three would be challenging. Staff looking at all the factors and the unique situation with the lot believe
that the applicant should be required to install a buffer to utilize permeable pavers for the driveway and
rear patio and undertake a shoreline restoration project to mitigate the impact of the requested setback and
lot cover from the lake. Staff does concur that the requested variance is consistent with what has been
granted to surrounding properties and with existing non-conformities in the area. There is concern about
parking but the proposal does provide 4 spaces. Five spaces with the Jeep, which again is consistent with
what we believe the neighbors have and so for these reasons staff recommends approval with conditions
and as was noted earlier the Planning Commission initially voted to approve this variance. I would be
happy to take any questions at this time.
Mayor Laufenburger: Alright, thank you Mr. Walters. Council, any questions of Mr. Walters or staff?
Councilman McDonald go ahead.
Councilman McDonald: Very familiar with this neighborhood as we’ve had a lot of things over the years
come down. This particular lot, how does that lot compare with the other lots around it? Is it roughly the
same? A lot smaller? Bigger? Where would you say it fits?
MacKenzie Walters: Roughly average but there’s, you know switching here to kind of an overhead view
of the neighborhood. As you can see there’s a lot of variation. The lots immediately around it are fairly
close. Some are significantly bigger and some are actually you know down around 8,000 square feet.
Councilman McDonald: And then of the lots around it and the homes that are on it, do any of them
require variances for either front or rear or side lot?
MacKenzie Walters: Yeah if we go to the packet I ran through the front lots. Of the, we have apologies.
Let me look it up so I actually give you the right number. 13 have received a front yard setback variance
within 500 feet, of which their variance is right around the middle of the packet. The most extreme
variance granted was a 28.8 foot front yard setback variance. That was for a pre-existing structure that
was very close and the smallest was a 7 ½ foot front yard variance and again they’re asking for 11 1/2.
Councilman McDonald: And again one of the other concerns I had, the neighbors play rightly so if we’re
going to be doing construction, a complete tear down and a new build, where are we talking about being
able to stage equipment?
MacKenzie Walters: They will have to, the contractor will have to work very closely with our building
department to find acceptable places to put equipment. Working in that neighborhood is always
challenging. There have been a couple remodels on, and yeah our inspectors do stay on it and they do try
to work with contractors. I believe the applicant can speak a little bit more about some of the stuff
they’ve planned for trying to reduce that congestion.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
Councilman McDonald: Okay. And where are we going to now put the snow and do the turn around?
Can you show me on the?
Paul Oehme: So right here we show, Mayor and City Council members. This is the right-of-way in this
area so this is right at the end of Red Cedar. This is a private drive and it goes off to the east so our plan
is to utilize this area as much as we can. There’s a fairly large cottonwood tree that’s over here. We’d
like to, it’s lost a limb too so we’re looking at removing that.
Mayor Laufenburger: Is the tree in our right-of-way?
Paul Oehme: It is in our right-of-way yep, so we’re looking at removing that tree. It’s in our right-of-
way and then utilizing this area for better snow plowing operations and turn around as well.
Councilman McDonald: Okay. One of the other things, and I’m just asking if you’ve asked. Why
couldn’t the house move back and make the driveway a little bit longer?
MacKenzie Walters: So one of the things that we always have held this council and Planning
Commission have held houses to in this community is not moving closer to the lake than the existing non-
conforming lake setback so when we met with people who were interested in this we asked that they do
everything possible to design houses that would not move closer to the lake. The more green space we
can have between the lake and the house, the more we can protect the water resources. That being said a
different house design you know would have a different footprint.
Councilman McDonald: Okay, thank you.
Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. McDonald. Any other questions of staff council? Councilmember
Ryan, go ahead.
Councilwoman Ryan: Could you just speak to the paver situation? I know you’ve been doing a lot of
research so you’re the perfect person to speak to it. Can you talk exactly where they’re going to go? I
know there’s some concern about the effectiveness. If you could just talk a little bit about that please.
MacKenzie Walters: Yeah absolutely. So I’m the second best person to talk about this. The Water
Resources Coordinator is absolutely the staff expert on this but I will give it my best shot. So looking it
over this area here, the driveway as well as the rear patio area here were targeted as being a good location
to place the pervious pavers. If I remember, there it is. That totals 583 square feet which means that the
lot would end up with 36 percent lot coverage but in terms of what we, under our amended definitions
would consider to be impervious surface it would be down to just over 29 percent. So it takes about 7
percent give or take off of the impervious lot coverage that is currently present on the property. They
would be required to have an engineered paver design that the Water Resources Coordinator approved so
you know we’d make sure that there was an adequately prepared substrate that would allow for the
infiltration. They would need to you know enter into, I believe she’ll do a maintenance agreement. My
understanding is the most important thing with these systems is making sure they’re installed correctly so
we would held them to the standards established by the Interlocking Concrete Paver Institute and the
Water Resources Coordinator when discussing this with the Planning Commission mentioned that she has
a great deal of experience with these systems and in this case, especially because if memory serves me
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
right the applicant has already installed some similar water best management practices in their existing
property. She felt they were a good candidate for this and would do proper maintenance.
Councilwoman Ryan: Okay, so because where are we at with that ordinance? I know we’re right kind of
in the middle.
Kate Aanenson: So what we were hoping to do is get the Surface Water Management Plan, get those
comments out and that is out for jurisdictional review so we’ll be following up on that shortly here.
Councilwoman Ryan: Okay. And then let’s see here. I know there’s some concern about the height of
the house. Do you know how much taller this house is than the others in the neighborhood? I couldn’t
find any information.
MacKenzie Walters: Yeah unfortunately because we don’t keep building plans for more than a year in
the building records I wasn’t able to get the empirical data on that.
Councilwoman Ryan: We don’t have any restrictions in terms of heights in this area?
MacKenzie Walters: 35 feet and they are well under that and you know a lot of it is what house you look
at. If you look at you know the more single story structures across the street, noticeably higher. The
house to the east I don’t believe would be that significant.
Councilwoman Ryan: And then could you just talk a little bit about, I know this is part of the Planning
Commission when you’re in the maybe the development stage, why staff recommended the tuck under
garage versus the side yard. Could you just explain that please?
MacKenzie Walters: Every proposal we had that was trying to do more of a traditional attached garage
ended up really either cutting into the side yard where we didn’t currently have a non-conformity and
ultimately we felt that the only way to really accommodate a 3 car garage on this property was going to be
to have it in a tuck under configuration. Side loading was also an option. The applicant didn’t feel that
configuration worked for them so ultimately that, this is what they proposed. Several others in the area
did choose to go with the side loading but especially when you’re talking about a 3 car side loading
garage, you know you get up around 28-30 feet and you don’t have a lot of depth on this lot. It’s 100 and
I believe 22 to 125 feet deep lot. As it currently is the house at it’s widest is 48 feet so if 30 feet of that
becomes a side loading garage it gets to be kind of a really awkward footprint.
Councilwoman Ryan: Right, okay. And then you mentioned a shoreline restoration project. Is that
something that the City’s involved with or do they provide plans through us or is that the watershed?
MacKenzie Walters: They will need to coordinate with the Minnehaha Creek Watershed to meet that
requirement.
Councilwoman Ryan: Okay. And that will address obviously the restoration but then does that
incorporate some of just with the runoff, the storm water runoff and what the anticipated rate will be with
the surface, hard surface?
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
MacKenzie Walters: My understanding is most of these storm water runoff would be addressed by the
requirement of the 20 foot buffer strip and that native vegetation is what’s going to slow it down and
really absorb that water. Again I would defer to the Water Resources Coordinator or engineering on that.
Paul Oehme: Yes, that’s correct.
Councilwoman Ryan: Okay. And just for a point of clarification because you brought it up. It was in
your report. Just the, I’m confused over the road and how you have it designated of their setback. Where
the road is. So the road is in their front yard? So does the road count against their lot coverage then? No.
MacKenzie Walters: No. City practice for public infrastructure, roads is that we deduct both the lot area
and the impervious surface covered by that from their lot.
Councilwoman Ryan: Okay.
MacKenzie Walters: So we don’t count that against them because that’s serving a public purpose and the
result would be to artificially inflate their lot coverage. If you remember when we recently, well last year
I guess now amended the code to explicitly exempt driveways in neck and flag lots from lot area
calculations, it’s the same rule and that’s the rule we were extending just to treat everyone fairly.
Councilwoman Ryan: Okay. Alright, thank you.
Mayor Laufenburger: Any other questions? Mr. Walters, just restate in it’s simplest form the current lot
coverage on the existing property is roughly 36 point decimal percent.
MacKenzie Walters: 36.36.
Mayor Laufenburger: Using the future ordinance which allows pervious pavers, the lot coverage would
go down to did you say 29?
MacKenzie Walters: The lot coverage would remain at 36 percent. The impervious coverage is 29, and I
forget the decimal off the top of my head.
Mayor Laufenburger: So today the impervious coverage is 36 point decimal, correct?
MacKenzie Walters: So what we did when we amended the definitions of impervious and pervious
earlier this, I guess it was in December. Late last year was we try to give some flexibility for situations
like this. Lot coverage for this property is set at 25 percent so we’re giving them an 11 percent lot
coverage variance. However we wanted to give flexibility for the Planning Commission and council to
look at unique situations and say because you’re using a certain percent that we understand to be pervious
we’re willing to grant a larger variance than we might otherwise be, if that makes sense.
Mayor Laufenburger: Alright so, so this new property, the new plan that has come before us now, for us
to approve or disapprove maintains the shoreline distance, number one. It also does not increase the
existing coverage, right?
MacKenzie Walters: It reduces it by a very small amount, yes.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
Mayor Laufenburger: Close.
MacKenzie Walters: Yep.
Mayor Laufenburger: I mean it was really close, okay. Alright. Also can you, the individual who
appealed the decision by the Planning Commission is right across the street is that correct?
MacKenzie Walters: That is my understanding.
Audience: No.
MacKenzie Walters: No? My apologies.
Mayor Laufenburger: Down one? Well actually sir, just a second. You can wait there. Can you bring
the map up? You showed the, yeah.
MacKenzie Walters: Let’s get the other one.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, so the 3617 is what property?
MacKenzie Walters: 3617 is this property here.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. 3618 is where?
Audience: Right there.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay good. I just wanted to get kind of approximation of that. And Mr. Walters
you also said that, oh. This is interesting. The property owner is one name. The applicant is a different
name, is that correct?
Audience: They’re sisters.
MacKenzie Walters: For the application for the 3617, the property owner has signed the development
review application giving the current applicant permission to pursue this variance.
Mayor Laufenburger: Oh okay, alright. Okay. So I get it. So if we grant this variance and give
permission to build in accordance with this variance how long do they have to build?
MacKenzie Walters: They must start construction within one year.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, alright. Okay. Is the applicant present this evening? Is it Mr. Jackson?
Todd Jackson: Yeah.
Mayor Laufenburger: Would you like to come up and address the council for any reason? Not required.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
Todd Jackson: I’ll wait if there’s any questions I’d be happy to.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, council are there any questions of the applicant? Alright Mr. Jackson would
you mind coming to the podium please?
Councilman McDonald: I asked this of Mr.
Mayor Laufenburger: Just a second. Just state your name and address.
Todd Jackson: Todd Jackson, 621 Broken Arrow Drive in Chan and then I also have a property on Red
Cedar as well. 3732 Hickory.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay.
Councilman McDonald: I asked this question of Mr. Oehme because again I’m very sensitive to that area
down there. There’s just not a lot of room. How do you plan to stage construction?
Todd Jackson: Well as I just stated I own a property, 3732 Hickory which has a significant driveway. I
don’t know MacKenzie if you can scroll back but I’ve talked to the builder and we’ve agreed that 3732
Hickory will be used as parking for crew. Now obviously there’s going to have to be equipment that’s
going to have to drop off stuff that I’m not going to be able to do anything with.
Councilman McDonald: Right.
Todd Jackson: But I’d also point out that regardless of the variance, even if you were to build something
that’s within the city ordinances the equipment’s still going to need to get back there but in this instance I
have the ability to allow daily crew to park their vehicles within walking distance of the property.
Councilman McDonald: Okay, thank you.
Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Jackson do you live in the dome house?
Todd Jackson: No, I live at the one right to the east of it. Right at the top of the hill.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay.
Todd Jackson: We built that house and that’s actually where we put the, the dome house.
Mayor Laufenburger: You know what I mean right?
Todd Jackson: Oh yeah. Yeah believe me I know. That’s actually the house next door. To the west of it
we built in ’06 I guess but we, we, my wife and I chose to work with the watershed district and add a
whole large area on the eastern side of our property to help with flowage into Lotus so we did that on our
own.
Mayor Laufenburger: Alright, I thought I recognized you from an earlier visit. Alright. Any other
question of Mr. Jackson? Okay. Thank you.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
Todd Jackson: Yep.
Mayor Laufenburger: Let’s bring it back to the council. Any questions, comments or actions?
Councilman McDonald: Did you want to hear from the gentleman who’s opposed to this?
Mayor Laufenburger: You know that, thank you Mr. McDonald. Is the appellant present? Not present.
Jeff Souba: I’d like to say something.
Mayor Laufenburger: I think I’d allow that. State your name and address please.
Jeff Souba: My name is Jeff Souba. My address is 3617 Red Cedar Point. That property has been in my
family since 1914 I believe. The person who wrote the letter to you, the applicant is not a resident of
Minnesota. She lives in New York. Her sister owns the property at 3618 and if you look at their property
it’s within 10 feet of the street. They’re complaining that he’s trying to build too close to the street when
in fact they are closer. If you look at their property directly next door to mine, directly across the street
from 3618, that’s the owner’s daughter. Her property is within 5 feet of our property. If you looked at
the picture where it showed the pick up truck and the boat in the driveway and the corner of their lot, her
garage is 10 feet from the street and 5 feet from our property line. She’s taking up her entire lot. She’s
only got a 50 foot lot and so my point is, they are complaining that he’s trying to build too big of a house
on our lot when in fact they’ve built houses when you compare the quality, the size of the house to the
size of the lot, that are much bigger. When you compare the footage so I think they’re being a little
prejudice.
Councilman McDonald: I’m confused. So you’re speaking in favor of building on this lot?
Jeff Souba: Absolutely.
Mayor Laufenburger: You’re the current owner of the property.
Jeff Souba: I am the current owner of the property, yes. My family is I should say. I have Power of
Attorney for my mother. She is the owner of record. She’s 89 years old and in a nursing home.
Mayor Laufenburger: So your position would be you would support the variance going through.
Jeff Souba: Absolutely 100 percent. I’m just, what I’m saying is the letter that you received from Debbie
Lockhart, you got a letter from somebody who is biased. You’re not getting a straight shooter basically.
Mayor Laufenburger: Say your last name again?
Jeff Souba: Souba.
Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Souba we’re accustomed to getting correspondence that is often biased so we
understand that, okay.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
Jeff Souba: Alright, thank you.
Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Souba. I would ask again. Council is there anybody that would
like to make a comment or propose an action?
Councilwoman Ryan: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Laufenburger: Councilmember Ryan, go ahead.
Councilwoman Ryan: I’d like to make the motion that the Chanhassen City Council approves an 11.5
foot front yard setback and a 22.1 foot lakeshore setback and an 11 percent lot coverage variance for the
construction of a single family house subject to the conditions of approval and adopts the attached
Findings of Fact and Decision.
Mayor Laufenburger: Alright, thank you Councilmember Ryan. Is there a second to that motion?
Councilman Campion: Second.
Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Mr. Campion. Any further discussion at this time?
Councilwoman Ryan moved, Councilman Campion seconded that the Chanhassen City Council
approves an 11.5 foot front yard setback, a 22.1 foot lakeshore setback and an 11 percent lot
coverage variance for the construction of a single family house subject to the following conditions of
approval and adopts the attached Findings of Fact and Decision:
1. The applicant must apply for and receive a building permit.
2. A title search for the property should be conducted to ensure any/all existing easements are
documented.
3. A new 1”=20’ scale survey should be provided as part of the building permit application clearly
showing the proposed setbacks and lot coverage for the proposed house and structures.
4. At least one tree must be planted in the front yard, if one is not present after construction.
5. Tree protection fencing must be properly installed at the edge of the grading limits across the
entire south side. This must be done prior to any construction activities and remain installed until
all construction is completed. Any trees lost to construction activities beyond those indicated in
the tree removal plan shall be replaced.
6. No equipment may be stored within the tree protection area.
7. Appropriate tree protection measures must be taken to protect the rear yard ash from Emerald
Ash Borer.
8. The 162 square foot rear patio area is understood to be the property’s water oriented structure.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
9. Lot coverage may not exceed 3,319 square feet.
10. The proposed rear patio and driveway areas must be constructed using pervious paver systems.
11. A permanent 20 foot native vegetated buffer must be installed along the shoreline using species
native to the ecotype with permanent buffer monuments. The buffer may work around the path
and stairs. The buffer must be designed and installed by an experienced professional in native
shoreline restoration. Design plan must be approved by the Water Resources Coordinator.
12. The property owner must work with Minnehaha Creek Watershed District to identify and
implement any shoreline restoration projects that would improve the ecosystem health and
function. Replace riprap with bioengineering solutions is one example.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0.
Mayor Laufenburger: That motion carries 4-0. Good luck Mr. Souba and nice to have your family in the
community for over 100 years and same to you Mr. Jackson.
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531 WEST 79 STREET: APPROVAL OF SITE PLAN TO CONSTRUCT PANERA BREAD.
Mayor Laufenburger: Who’s is this?
Kate Aanenson: This is mine. Thank you Mayor, members of the City Council. Panera Bread is
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requesting approval for a site plan located at 531 West 79 Street. This item did appear before the
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Planning Commission on January 2. They did recommend approval. The applicant’s are Panera LLC
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and the Chanhassen Inn. So again the location on West 79 Street. I’ll give a little bit more detail on that
but I just want to talk a little bit about the history of the Chanhassen Inn which was built in 1981 and they
added 14 rooms onto the site. Sorry, let me put my pointer on there. So this building will be torn down
adjacent to the Chick-fil-A. If I can go to the next slide you can see, put it in a little bit frame of reference
here. So again the Chanhassen Inn would be removed. That’s why they’re part of the signature on there
and then this is the older building, the Ramsey Building but shared the access with the Chick-fil-A. There
was a traffic study which we’ll talk about in a little bit more detail but the request then is for a site plan
approval to construct approximately 4,500 square foot building, a one story restaurant with a drive
through with a variance request for the use of EIFS as a primary material. The intent of the Business
Highway District, which this is zoned, is to provide commercial oriented building. Low profile so fast
food are a permitted use in this district and maybe you do or do not know but Panera has been looking in
the city for a number of years to locate and had unable until now to find a site to build on and they were
definitely looking for Highway 5 frontage. So the site plan itself, as I mentioned, has a shared access
within, coming in next to Chick-fil-A. Their parking has additional parking spaces so they have an
easement to the east. In the staff report we talk about the requirements that they need so there’s additional
parking there. The other thing I want to point out is they do have the drive through and we talked about at
the Planning Commission as you recall last fall we modified our standards for additional stacking for a
drive through. I’ll let Panera talk about this but the ratios that they used for drive through is significantly
less than Chick-fil-A. Chick-fil-A has a lot more drive through. Panera tends to have more people that
would go inside the store so they are accommodating the additional stacking length which I believe would
be 12. They will be putting a filtration pond on the subject site so this area adjacent, so it would be in the
southwest corner will be where the filtration pond would go. So some of the issues they have to address
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
is this area here has to be widened. 10 foot wide and then additional trees in this area here so this is
adjacent to Highway 5 so that will also provide some nice noise attenuation from Highway 5. I know we
had been down there, even under Chick-fil-A it can be loud. Talk a little bit about the elevation. So the
original elevations we, concerned that a little bit kind of their prototype so this was the original elevation
and then they revised them so this is what the Planning Commission saw. We had worked through the
original application but we wanted to show you how they moved through the process. The other
discussion we had with the variances we spent a lot of time talking about, we have a percentage of EIFS
requirement so they spent time explaining to the Planning Commission the drivet. We put those specs in
here too. That that’s a little bit different quality than a typical EIFS so it has a nice blend of materials so
you’ve got the east elevation and then the north elevation. And then this is the old south and west
elevations and then you can see the change too so there are spandrel windows which are on the bottom on
the west elevation which is the faux glass. I was going to point out too that was similar, when Target’s
doing their renovations they had some lower grade spandrel windows and those are all being changed out
to a higher grade spandrel so they’ll have a much better attractive appearance so this will also have the
nicer grade spandrel. The other thing that this site plan does accommodate is outdoor seating. Again as
the Chick-fil-A it’s kind of hard to see but this again is the layout and the floor plan. So the next thing I’ll
let maybe the City Engineer take a few minutes to talk about the trip generation and the traffic study.
Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Oehme, go ahead.
Paul Oehme: Thank you Mayor. Thank you Kate. So like Kate had indicated where there was a traffic
study that was performed for the proposed development. We took into account all the background traffic
information as well and looked at what the hotel estimated trip generations were compared to what new
trips would potentially generate for this development. This is kind of the worst case scenario or the
largest traffic impacts we think so in total there roughly would be 800 and say 50 trips per day coming
and going through this proposed restaurant. Traffic engineers, we’d look at is the peak hours. The AM
peak typically during rush house. You know people are coming and getting coffee or something to eat
and then the PM going home as well too so those are the numbers that we would look at additionally
generating about 80 trips during the AM and then roughly about 50 trips in the PM so that’s the numbers
that we typically would look at so based upon that we look at what the level of service is for each of the
intersections and the surrounding roadway system so in general we’re not seeing a big impact in terms of
level of service. As you can see most of the intersections are at A level during most of the hours during
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the day. However during the peak hours at 79 Street and Great Plains we do see some level of services
dropping off to the F range during the PM peak hours. That’s again those are the left turns going
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northbound onto Great Plains off of 79 Street. That condition currently exists today. There’s just a little
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bit more stacking that we’re going to be potentially seeing on 79 Street based upon this proposed
development so, and again it’s not, it’s just a delay that we’re talking about here. It’s not generation of
accidents or anything like that. It’s just delays that we’re evaluating so with that there’s, in the traffic
study it’s in your background. We talked about some mitigation that potentially would, we could take
place in looking out into the future. Some things that the City would be talking to MnDOT about and
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monitoring the intersection of 79 Street and potentially making some improvements down the road there
so with that staff is supportive of this application just based upon the traffic perspective.
Mayor Laufenburger: Anything else on the staff report?
Kate Aanenson: No, no. I’d be happy to answer any questions.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, alright. Questions? Mr. McDonald, you have any questions?
Councilman McDonald: The only question I had was on your traffic studies. Is that all the businesses
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along West 79 or is that just Panera?
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Paul Oehme: That’s just Panera. We looked at, we did the background trip generations along 79 Street.
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I don’t have that number in front of me, how many trips are along 79 Street but we’re looking at what,
with the new development potentially going in, how that would impact the existing traffic that is currently
out there. Does it make it worst you know and what can we expect in the future?
Councilman McDonald: Well then according to the traffic study that was in the packet, if I read it
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correctly, it looks like the worst spot is going to be 79 and Great Plains, especially making the left hand
turn.
Paul Oehme: Right.
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Councilman McDonald: And that’s going to cause additional stacking down 79.
Paul Oehme: Correct.
Councilman McDonald: So what’s the plan? How do you mitigate that?
Paul Oehme: There are several items that were addressed in the, or talked about in the traffic study. One
is to look at and talk to MnDOT about you know can we get some more green time on the side streets
along Galpin Boulevard so that would alleviate a lot of the queuing backing up into Great Plains and
clogging up this intersection. That was one of the options. And then one of the other items was looking
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at making potentially modifications at the intersection of 79 Street and Great Plains and I can show you
that real quick here. Bring up my other slide here so. So what, under this item we looked at three
options.
Kate Aanenson: I was going to make it bigger, sorry.
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Paul Oehme: Yep, okay. So there’s 3 options. So again it’s the left turn movements off of 79 Street
going northbound onto Great Plains. So one of the options, less impactful would be to maybe sign this
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intersection for no left turns off of 79 Street going northbound just during those peak hours timeframes
where we see you know the level of service F. So from say 7:00 in the morning to 9:00 or 4:00 PM to
6:00 PM in the afternoons we would look at signing that. Signing it does have some inherent setbacks or
it’s not as compliant say and it’s hard to enforce these type of signage so we’re, we’d have to still go
through analysis and see if that’s the appropriate improvement. If that’s not an option we may be looking
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at like a pork chop island so this is, on 79 Street we’d look at maybe installing a raised median. This is a
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concrete median here to channel traffic off of 79 Street so they only can southbound.
Mayor Laufenburger: So there would be no compliance issue there. The only way they can go is right
turn.
Paul Oehme: Well and this, in this instance there might be some people that want to skirt around and get
through this intersection. It’s not completely closed off.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
Mayor Laufenburger: No. Chanhassenites?
Paul Oehme: Well I don’t know. These are people on Highway 5 maybe.
Mayor Laufenburger: Out of towners, oh yeah. That’s who it is.
Paul Oehme: Maybe. So and then the third option is to address that situation Mayor is, we potentially
extend the center median there to eliminate that potential movement. So that’s, those are some of the
items that we had talked about to address that, that level of service F at this intersection.
Councilman McDonald: That intersection would never qualify for a light is that right? Because it’s too
close to 5.
Paul Oehme: Yeah I mean the stacking of that intersection, we’ve talked to MnDOT about that. It’s just,
it’s so close to Highway 5 that it’s really hard to get that timing down correctly. And then we also talked
about maybe a roundabout there and that’s problematic at these type of intersections too. This is a 4 lane
intersection. It’d be a huge footprint to get a roundabout in there as well. So I think our options here are
a little bit limited. You know if the development to the north of here were to develop where the car wash
is today, I think that would alleviate a lot of traffic problems at the businesses on the east side of Great
Plains because we’d probably look at a different access point for that traffic and that would maybe lessen
the traffic congestion at this intersection if that development would take place. A lot of things we, kind of
a lot of moving parts right now where we’re just kind of monitoring and seeing what the appropriate
timing is for potentially you know recommending some of these modifications.
Councilman McDonald: Okay, and then since we’ve put in Chick-fil-A because that intersection was a
concern back then, what has been our experience at that intersection? Do we see increased accidents?
Has there been increased traffic jams there? What’s happened?
Paul Oehme: I think you know for just talking Carver County sheriff’s department I mean, and
engineering’s observation I think there has been an increase at this intersection. There’s a congestion.
You know we don’t have any accident data that has surfaced that the intersection has increased from a
safety, decreased from a safety perspective since Chick-fil-A has gone in. I think a lot of people that have
been using Chick-fil-A have realized you know during some of these peak hours that there is an alternate
route going west over to Market Boulevard and I think we’ve seen a lot more traffic ending up going onto
Market and trying to getting back on 5 so I think you know overall there’s going to be an equilibrium. If
Panera was improved or granted to build there I think you know traffic’s going to want to find an
equilibrium and they’ll find the quickest way to their original destination. Maybe it’s not going to be at
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79 Street anymore. Maybe it will be over at Great Plains and be at Market Boulevard.
Councilman McDonald: So I guess what you’re telling me is, nothing’s really changed since we did
Chick-fil-A. You just continue to monitor the intersection and at this point you really haven’t seen
anything that would spike to say that this is becoming a more dangerous intersection.
Paul Oehme: Right, yep. Again based on Carver County Sheriff’s observations, our observations, you
know the data points that we’ve taken, we don’t, we’re not recommending any of these options right now
but we just wanted to make sure that we have looked at this from a traffic standpoint and safety
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
standpoint we have options out there in the future that we can make if something were to you know move
it.
Councilman McDonald: Okay, thank you Mr. Oehme.
Paul Oehme: Yep.
Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. McDonald. Councilmember Ryan, did you have any questions or comments?
Councilwoman Ryan: I did. Thank you for addressing the traffic concerns. Ms. Aanenson could you
talk about the parking lot configuration between Chick-fil-A and Panera and just the orientation and
direction, how that’s going to be set up.
Kate Aanenson: I think I’d like to have maybe Panera talk a little bit about that but they do have extra
parking.
Councilwoman Ryan: Oh perfect.
Kate Aanenson: Again as we’ve learned that the fast casual’s a little bit different between the two
operations and so where their peak is maybe a little bit different peak so maybe I’ll let Panera address that
if that’s okay.
Councilwoman Ryan: Okay, yes please.
Mayor Laufenburger: Do you have any other questions before I ask the applicant to come forward?
Councilwoman Ryan: Nope.
Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. Campion do you have any questions of staff?
Councilman Campion: I have just one follow up question for Mr. Oehme. So going forward you know if
the Panera’s approved and it goes forward and we’re just monitoring the traffic so we’re waiting for the
trigger point for doing the pork chop and the elongated island or some other approach would be Carver
County Sheriff saying it’s out of control? More accidents?
Paul Oehme: Yeah there’s a whole bunch of points. Delays. If we see a lot of stacking going back up
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and businesses along 79 Street can’t allow traffic to get and out of their development, that one might be
a pinch or a point that we look at. Accidents, you bring up accidents. And then you know our
observations too and again we’ll be monitoring it. You know every 2 years we take traffic counts out
here and if there’s a spike or something else that we see out here, or getting a lot of calls from property
owners or from the traveling public about this intersection then those are the trigger points that we may
recommend you know going to one of these other improvements. So and again putting in the pork chop
island and extending the median too, that has some inherent detriments to the businesses in this area too
so that’s something that you know before we would ever put in any improvement like that we would
definitely want to talk to the neighbors and the businesses in this area and the community and make sure
this is the right thing to do for everybody.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
Mayor Laufenburger: Anything else?
Councilman Campion: I mean my thoughts are just that, I mean traffic’s obviously getting worst and you
know I would imagine there will be.
Mayor Laufenburger: Well, I was going to say some people think it’s worst but some of the businesses
think it’s really good. True?
Councilman Campion: I’ve driven, you know I’ve been to Chick-fil-A several times since that opened
and traffic is challenging and slightly confusing and I’m just thinking that it’s about more than just the car
traffic too. You know people will undoubtedly try to get there by foot or bike as well and I would like to
see something done about it you know sooner than later. It seems like there’s more and more traffic
generators being added to the area and at some point we need to do something about it.
Mayor Laufenburger: Yeah and I would say a primary concern would be the businesses either O’Reilly
Auto Parts or Holiday, you know if they’re seeing such stacking there that people can’t get into their
businesses that would be an issue. And have you heard from either of them?
Paul Oehme: We have not.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, alright. I wonder if we, is the applicant present this evening? Come on
forward if you wouldn’t mind. State your name and address and who you represent, whether it’s Panera
or Chanhassen Inn.
Dan Cook: I’m Dan Cook, 3630 South Geyer Avenue, St. Louis, Missouri. I am the Panera Senior
Design Manager.
Brian Barnard: I’m Brian Barnard, B-a-r-n-a-r-d also from St. Louis, Missouri with Panera Bread. With
us we also do have the owners of the Chanhassen Inn, Larry Zamor and Jean Zamor and as well we have
Bryant Ficek with Spack Engineering who is our traffic engineer that worked on this with Mr. Oehme.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. Anything you want to say about the restaurant and your plans?
Brian Barnard: First I’d like to say my childhood days were spent 15 miles west of Oskaloosa, Iowa. My
grandparents lived in Oskaloosa and actually family still owns farmland there and the booming metropolis
under Minnesota Liquor Law would probably be allowed 2 or 3 licenses. But it’s a great sense of pride to
the people of that community that Musco has been there and remains there so while I hope there’s a
Panera in Chanhassen very soon, I hope the Musco headquarters stay in Oskaloosa.
Mayor Laufenburger: They would buy a lot of Panera food if they came here let me tell you that.
Brian Barnard: That’s true. There’s none available in Oskaloosa. I don’t own Musco unfortunately. I
can’t sway them in that regard.
Mayor Laufenburger: Alright.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
Brian Barnard: So as was mentioned you know Panera’s been looking in Chanhassen for a number of
years to find a site to continue developing in the Minneapolis market. We just opened in Richfield which
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is our 25 location in the greater Minneapolis area with another opening at Abbott Northwestern Hospital
later this month. For a couple of years we’ve been in discussions with the Zamor’s as far as this site
working on an LOI. Actually had preliminary meetings with Mr. Generous last spring looking at a site
plan before it was even public that it was Panera’s. Just a building with a drive through lane and trying to
discuss with him that it’s not a fast food restaurant and it’s very difficult to explain how a restaurant has a
drive through without being fast food as Panera’s kind of developing the fast casual drive through model
and getting people to understand as far as traffic generation. That our drive through is 25 to 30 percent of
our business when you do a drive through whereas fast food locations like Chick-fil-A and McDonald’s
generate 60 to 80 percent of their business through the window. We’re still a sit down restaurant by
concept with drive through as a convenience factor. So we don’t see, you know if we do 1,050 traffic
generations in a day we’re going to be ecstatic. That would blow away our best expectations and
forecasts and I guess that would be additional sales income to the City of Chanhassen. So you know
we’ve worked with staff as was noted in revising our elevations. Revising the site plan from what
initially was created or I guess presented to Mr. Generous and understanding what Chick-fil-A did for
their water retention system underground. Working with the watershed to understand what we could do
which came to the bioswale there in the back side with the retention of the above ground retention pond.
Reducing some of our parking but also increase the pervious coverage there. You know our peak hours
are really from about 11:00 to 2:00 and then again later in the evening but really the lunch hour is our
busiest time. 5:00 to 7:00 at dinner but again lunch is really where we do the most, the bulk of our
business so you know in the evening is there’s more traffic for people leaving businesses or trying to go
to other restaurants. We’re not generating the bulk of that in comparison to other you know evening
restaurants like Applebee’s or Buffalo Wild Wings or any of those down the street a little bit farther so we
think we’d be a good compliment here. I think the Mayor mentioned earlier that he’s not trying to restrict
the Chanhassen Inn owners from, or make them operate a hotel and letting them redevelop this site.
Mayor Laufenburger: Can you just speak a little bit more. You said that you’d be in, looking for a site in
Chanhassen. Why Chanhassen?
Brian Barnard: Strong demographics. Strong income levels. Very strong retail note, especially this
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redeveloped area now that 79 has gone through a redevelopment over the past few years. We seem to
always be a step behind Chick-fil-A and that just seems to be true not just here but across the country
where they seem to find a site that is right next to where we’re looking and they just get through the
process a little bit faster than we do. I don’t know partly because they have been a privately owned
company the entire they’ve been in business and until last summer we were publicly traded so I don’t
know if we’re going to start getting ahead of them or not. Hopefully so because you know they get on
there first and then sometimes we have to deal with the repercussions of the site they’ve developed and us
being adjacent to them.
Mayor Laufenburger: Well certainly your history has shown the rising tides will raise all ships so, let’s
see. How many employees will you employ here, do you know?
Brian Barnard: It will end up being based on sales but up front anywhere between 50 and 70 to get it
staffed up. You know there’s always going to be some drop off…
Mayor Laufenburger: Full and part time right?
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
Brian Barnard: Yeah, a mixture of full and part time and management.
Mayor Laufenburger: And you’ll have a local like a general manager or a store manager is that correct?
Brian Barnard: Yes. There’s actually multiple tiers of management. There’s an area operator that
oversees around 10 to 15 locations and then there’s a specific general manager for that café and 2 to 3
managers within as well.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay.
Brian Barnard: There’s one manager for the café itself and then one that kind of oversees the drive
through operation.
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Mayor Laufenburger: So you have a, you’ve mentioned this is the 25 is that correct? 25.
Brian Barnard: Richfield was 25.
Mayor Laufenburger: So this would be 26 unless you speedily.
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Brian Barnard: Abbott Northwestern will be 26 and then it’s a race between here and Blaine as to which
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becomes 27.
Mayor Laufenburger: We’ve got to beat Blaine right. Exactly.
Todd Gerhardt: Are they on tonight?
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Brian Barnard: Pardon me? No not tonight. In a month. March 13.
Mayor Laufenburger: How do you answer the question you’re another national chain versus a locally
owned business?
Brian Barnard: It’s very true. I guess that is the burden of success because every national brand started
as an individual location. Started as one café in St. Louis, Missouri and has grown to the brand it is now.
And Dan can talk to this more than I can as far as the design side but we do try to make each one
individual. You won’t go to a Panera that is the same as any other Panera in the country. Each one has
it’s own design. It’s own location.
Mayor Laufenburger: But there is a visual brand that you’ve established, would you agree?
Brian Barnard: There is, yes. Absolutely.
Mayor Laufenburger: And you’re modifying that traditional brand just a little bit?
Brian Barnard: Absolutely and that was through working with staff to create what they felt was a little
more pleasing and better presentation on that lot within Chanhassen so. And that’s something that we do
across the country. It’s not, I guess I shouldn’t say it’s not unique to Chanhassen because I want you
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
guys to feel like this is a unique one and it is, but it’s something that we do across the country. There’s
not a single one that looks the same or is the same even on the inside.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay. I think Councilmember Ryan had a question that she wanted to ask.
Councilwoman Ryan: Speak to this slide and help explain just the flow of where the drive through is and
how you’re, right now the parking lot between Chick-fil-A and this site is not super clear when people
come in through the drive through for Chick-fil-A.
Brian Barnard: Sure and I don’t know if we’ve got a site that actually has both of them on.
Kate Aanenson: If you’re coming in this way and then you’re going to come to go through the drive
through.
Brian Barnard: You’d make actually a right.
Kate Aanenson: Right there and then you come down through here.
Brian Barnard: And that’s the entrance to the drive through lane.
Kate Aanenson: Then you’re coming around this way.
Brian Barnard: Then it comes around the building and so you can actually go back across the face of the
building or back into the drive lane.
Councilwoman Ryan: So are they very separate?
Kate Aanenson: You could come back this way, yes. Yeah Chick-fil-A’s over on this side. Yeah.
Brian Barnard: Correct.
Councilwoman Ryan: So you’re going to get the coming in of Chick-fil-A and the exiting of Panera?
Dan Cook: Well the Panera folks have two options exiting. They can come back across the face of our
café.
Kate Aanenson: So they could through here.
Dan Cook: Or they can go straight out to the main drive aisle between the two concepts. So there are
choices for the customers depending on how traffic flows.
Brian Barnard: And I don’t know if Councilman Campion knows but I believe Chick-fil-A is set up for I
think a 27 car stacking with their lanes. Have you ever even backed up into…
Mayor Laufenburger: Double lanes.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
Brian Barnard: They do have double lanes up to 27 cars which is their standard. I mean they do a lot of
business through that window and so that is how they lay out their site. Or if any of the other members
here tonight know if they’ve seen has the drive through stacking backed up into the drive aisle itself.
Councilman McDonald: Maybe when it first opened.
Brian Barnard: Sure.
Mayor Laufenburger: Early on.
Councilman Campion: I’m just thinking of the flow, the traffic that they’re showing side by side.
Kate Aanenson: Yep, they’re coming right here.
Councilman Campion: It’s right down the same lane.
Kate Aanenson: Correct, yes.
Councilman Campion: You’re saying they’re going out and coming in and I.
Kate Aanenson: Yep, they’re going to cross lane.
Mayor Laufenburger: Where’s Highway 5?
Kate Aanenson: Highway 5 is here.
Councilman Campion: At the bottom.
Kate Aanenson: Oh sorry, I’m on the bottom. Yeah.
Mayor Laufenburger: So Chick-fil-A, the entry to Chick-fil-A is closest to Highway 5. The drive
through for Chick-fil-A is closest to Highway 5.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah. I think part of what we learned too at the Planning Commission is if you’re doing
a more pick up or a quick run in and out that’s not the same experience so you’re going to be parking
probably a little bit longer here going in to eat.
Brian Barnard: Correct.
Kate Aanenson: So the flowing, the movement will be quicker on the Chick-fil-A and longer duration of
parking. Sometimes you see that in, you’re trying to get out and someone else is backing out into you
also because of the way they’re set up and how long you’re in there that the turn over is a little bit slower,
if that makes sense.
Councilwoman Ryan: But are they very, you know because right now it’s hard to distinguish the parking
lot and what not so is it going to be an easy flow of traffic with Panera whether you’re going through the
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drive through or grabbing a sandwich or salad and coming out and with Chick-fil-A and the circulation of
traffic there.
Brian Barnard: And we think it will be which is why we actually curbed off on the drive aisle. Chick-fil-
A actually has open parking straight off of the drive aisle too.
Councilwoman Ryan: Right. So is that island.
Kate Aanenson: This is curbing right here and they don’t have…
Brian Barnard: Which will have to be widen a bit.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah, so…
Councilwoman Ryan: So when you come out of the drive through are you on the west side of the curbing
or are you on the east side of the curb?
Brian Barnard: It’s your choice really, yeah. It’s kind of facing the end of that curb so you’re either
going to go slightly south to go up the drive aisle. More likely if you see the drive through for Chick-fil-
A is backed up you’re going to take a left and go back across the face of the building to exit to the north.
Councilwoman Ryan: Okay.
Mayor Laufenburger: You said your busiest times are what, 11:00 to 2:00?
Brian Barnard: 11:00 to 2:00.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay so that would be lunch traffic.
Councilwoman Ryan: And is the, are you expanding the entrance to both of those, both Chick-fil-A and
Panera or is it just one exit and one entrance into that?
Brian Barnard: Chick-fil-A I believe still maintains their secondary entrance that was at the shopping
center at the northeast corner of the lot.
Mayor Laufenburger: Yep.
Brian Barnard: And then there’s the one entrance here that is the shared drive aisle to both lots.
Councilwoman Ryan: Okay.
Mayor Laufenburger: And is that I think, is that shared aisle going to be widened?
Kate Aanenson: I’m just going to go back to that original.
Brian Barnard: No.
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Mayor Laufenburger: That shared aisle that exists today is the shared aisle that will.
Brian Barnard: Will stay the same way, correct.
Kate Aanenson: Right, so if you look at this photo that’s still there and they maintain this one over here.
Chick-fil-A did so.
Councilwoman Ryan: Well so my thought or suggestion is to keep an eye on the shared one because with
the traffic, you know the lunch hour traffic that you’re anticipating and Chick-fil-A it already backs up
into the parking lot as it is.
Mayor Laufenburger: The drive through does?
Councilwoman Ryan: Like people trying to exit and it.
Kate Aanenson: Right and then you can’t back out, yeah. So I think part of it’s going to be, is going to
be teaching people where to be. How to get in there. You know like finding that equilibrium to make
your turning movement, queuing that and I think that was one of the reasons that we thought having this
wider, this barricade provides them, so people aren’t cutting through. Trying to back in over there.
Councilwoman Ryan: Is there no opportunity to expand the entrance?
Kate Aanenson: Up at this, up at this point?
Councilwoman Ryan: Or move it. Or just have two lanes or make it a little wider.
Kate Aanenson: I think the City Engineer likes it when you have a controlled intersection and you can, so
the more intersections you have the most frequency you have to look at somebody else.
Paul Oehme: Just from a…perspective, you know having two entry points that close together is going to
be a little more confusing I think so if we can leave it combined I think that would, you know and maybe
just the signage or put some striping down to direct traffic.
Councilwoman Ryan: Or even widen it. I don’t suggest.
Paul Oehme: It’s wide, it’s really wide right now actually the entrance. I don’t know what it is right now
but it’s.
Councilwoman Ryan: You’ve got people coming in and out.
Paul Oehme: Yeah.
Kate Aanenson: But that’s part of the problem you have right now. We have all these driveways along
here right now so you have people that are turning into each other. That’s part of the problem.
Councilwoman Ryan: Okay. Well I would just pay attention to the striping because it’s, and even some
of the shrubbery around it. It’s, I don’t know if it’s screening. I don’t know what it’s screening on
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Chick-fil-A’s lot but it’s, you know and if you start get stacking trying to get out onto Great Plains it is, I
mean it’s just a challenge coming in and out of there.
Kate Aanenson: We can look at queuing too. I think while we’ve employed arrows on the parking lot.
Directional arrows. Sometimes you get people when you first open, kind of people get into those patterns
of which way to go forward or turn here and actually painting it on the asphalt. Get people queuing the
right way.
Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you both gentlemen. Larry or Jean would you like to address the council?
I’d like to say something to both of you. You can hear me okay right? You’ve been part of this
community for almost 50 years.
Jean Zamor: 36.
Mayor Laufenburger: 36 years. That’s close enough to 50. And your presence in this community will be
missed and you know I recognize that you’re at that season of your life where you, maybe you want to
spend a little less time managing a hotel and doing some other things and I just think that it’s worthy that
you be recognized for the contribution that you made to this community. There are people who come to
this community that will be disappointed that the Chanhassen Inn is no longer there. They may be
delighted with Panera but they will be disappointed that the Chanhassen Inn, specifically the two of you
will not be there to greet them so I just, I wanted to publicly say on behalf of all of those people who have
enjoyed your hospitality in the past and will miss your hospitality in the future, thank you.
Larry Zamor: Thank you very much.
Jean Zamor: Thank you.
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor?
Mayor Laufenburger: Yes Mr. Gerhardt.
Todd Gerhardt: Since you’ve recognized the Zamor’s here. Your dad would sit in the front row and he
would have no problem talking to the council. Right? Right, okay.
Mayor Laufenburger: That wasn’t genetic? Genetically handed down.
Todd Gerhardt: You did not get that DNA from him so I don’t know if you’re adopted or not but. But
you will be missed. Your dad is missed. I think of him often. Every time I see that front chair I think of
him because he could express himself and I’m sure you felt that at home once in a while. But he was a
great man. I appreciated him and he told it like it was and that’s rare today and he didn’t keep it inside
that’s for sure.
Larry Zamor: Yeah we miss him.
Todd Gerhardt: Yeah.
Mayor Laufenburger: Very well. Any other questions of the applicant? Mr. Campion, go ahead.
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Councilman Campion: This is more for, back to Mr. Oehme. So based on the, I mean the plan that we’re
approving here is the parking lot plan. The site plan is what’s being moved forward right?
Mayor Laufenburger: It’s what’s being asked to be approved by the City Council, that’s correct.
Councilman Campion: Okay. And yeah I’m just asking Mr. Oehme to take into consideration you know
presuming this goes forward that, to look at the traffic flow in there of the two of them side by side.
There have been some other parking lots that we’ve done for recent developments like you know just
across Great Plains you know where the, they’re tight fits and it’d just be nice to see a little bit more room
for traffic to flow freely. Just to review them and look to see if there’s any improvements to be made with
the entrance and exit plan. I just imagine even though the peaks might be at a little bit different time it’s
still, the way it was presented looks like it’s going to be challenging to navigate to me.
Paul Oehme: Okay, we’ll visit with Panera Bread’s engineering team and traffic engineer and see if
there’s, there may some improvements we can come up with.
Councilman Campion: Okay.
Paul Oehme: With their proposed plan.
Councilman Campion: Okay.
Mayor Laufenburger: Is your traffic engineer from St. Louis too?
Brian Barnard: No.
Mayor Laufenburger: Okay, so if he’s local then I don’t necessarily need to give him an opportunity to
speak but, alright. Thank you very much to both of you and let’s see what the council does with this
okay.
Brian Barnard: Thank you.
Mayor Laufenburger: Alright let’s bring this back to the council for any further discussion, comment or
for action.
Councilman McDonald: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: I guess what I’ll do is make a motion.
Mayor Laufenburger: Alright.
Councilman McDonald: Chanhassen City Council approves a 4,500 square foot one story restaurant with
a drive through facility with a variance for the use of EIFS as primary material, plans prepared by CEI
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Engineering Associates Incorporated dated revised November 30, 2017 subject to conditions of approval
and adopts the Findings of Fact.
Mayor Laufenburger: Alright we have a valid motion. Is there a second to that motion?
Councilwoman Ryan: Second.
Mayor Laufenburger: Thank you Councilmember Ryan. Any further discussion? I would just like to
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make this comment that I think that Mr. Oehme we, the subject of traffic flow on 79 Street is a concern
of the council and I’m going to use a word that Mr. Campion used, there may be a trigger that requires us
to do this. I just hope that that trigger isn’t a fatal trigger. I think we, I understand that there may be
problems associated with a pork chop or with signage and yes I do believe that over time people will find
the equilibrium or they’ll find the best way to move on and I have observed that people do leave Chick-
fil-A. Move left. Head out to Market Boulevard and then make a right turn to go north so that could be
an option but I think it’s important that we stay ahead of that and so I would just urge you to, if you look
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at traffic counts every 2 years, do it more frequently at that 79 and Great Plains. I know that there are,
and I didn’t mean to make a flippant comment about better or worst Mr. Campion but there are some
people along there that want to see more traffic. You know they want to see more people in their stores
but they also want people to arrive safely so that they can spend their money so let’s just be in tune with
that so I would ask that you and your engineers you know maybe narrow or shorten the time, the intervals
between reviewing that traffic, alright Mr. Oehme?
Paul Oehme: Yes.
Mayor Laufenburger: Any further discussion? Mr. Campion.
Councilman Campion: One last comment to put a cap on what I think I said poorly. And I’m in favor of
more traffic for the businesses and I want people that come into Chanhassen to have a good experience
when they’re dining at the restaurants you know within our city, going to the different retail stores and I
just think to make sure that we have good overall flow helps to increase the likelihood of the people to
come back a second time for another visit so that’s what I’m after.
Mayor Laufenburger: Well said Mr. Campion.
Councilman McDonald moved, Councilwoman Ryan seconded that the Chanhassen City Council
approves the site plan for a 4,500 square foot, one-story restaurant with drive through
facilities plans prepared by CEI Engineering Associates, Inc. dated revised 11/30/17,
subject to the following conditions:
Building:
1. The building is required to have an automatic fire extinguishing system.
2. Building plans must be prepared and signed by design professionals licensed in the State of
Minnesota.
3. Sanitary and storm sewer service must comply with Minnesota State Plumbing Code (see
Table 701.1).
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4. Detailed occupancy related requirements will be addressed when complete building plans are
submitted.
5. The owner and or their representative shall meet with the Inspections Division as soon as
possible to discuss plan review and permit procedures.
Engineering:
1. The plans shall be signed and sealed by a Professional Engineer licensed in the State of
Minnesota prior to recording the site plan agreement.
2. Provide perimeter drainage and utility easements were none exist concurrent with
recording the site plan agreement.
3. The applicant must move any feature out from within the City’s drainage and utility
easement, including both bioretention basins or the applicant must enter into an
encroachment agreement with the City after, but concurrent to the site plan agreement.
4. An additional drainage and utility easement shall be recorded over the two bioretention
basins concurrent with recording the site plan agreement.
5. Soil boring locations shall be shown on the grading plan prior to site grading.
6. Indicate finished floor elevation of the adjacent parcel to the east prior to site grading.
7. Provide existing and proposed elevations at each lot corner, top of curb or centerline of
the roadway at each lot line extension, center of the proposed driveway at the curbline,
and indicate the proposed driveway grade prior to site grading.
8. Indicate information to verify the lowest building opening is a minimum of 1-foot above
the emergency overflow elevation of the bioretention basins prior to site grading.
9. Identify soil stockpile areas intended within the site limits prior to site grading.
10. Address review comments identified in the attached letter from MnDOT prior to site
grading.
11. Provide Limited Use Permit (LUP) for the public sidewalk connection prior to recording
the site plan agreement.
12. Applicant shall utilize the City’s standard detail for the sidewalk connection prior to site
grading.
13. Staff has requested further traffic analysis to include the Market Blvd intersection prior to
review for City Council consideration.
14. The applicant’s engineer shall also examine ways to mitigate the queueing and decreased
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LOS at the W 79 Street & Great Plain Blvd intersection prior to review for City Council
consideration.
15. The applicant’s engineer shall verify whether an adequate sight line is provided for
vehicles exiting the site access prior to review for City Council consideration.
16. Prior to review for City Council consideration, the traffic analysis report shall further
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discuss recommendations for the timing of improvements to the W 79 St & Great Plains
Blvd intersection. The recommended ¾ intersection shall include a figure in the
Appendix showing the proposed design. Further commentary shall be included related to
its operation.
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17. Plans shall show the current City detail plates and indicate all of the most up-to-date
plates shall be used when the project under construction.
18. The storm sewer piping shall be included on the utility plan prior to recording the site
plan agreement.
19. Plan shall include the bioretention basin details with elevations prior to site grading.
20. Recommend applicant review the design for the on-site hydrant. From a long term
perspective, the hydrant should be fed by the water service to the parcel it serves.
Coordinate with the adjacent property owner to abandon un-necessary water pipe.
Otherwise, a maintenance agreement between the two parcels shall be filed to define
future maintenance responsibilities and other important business protection aspects prior
to site grading.
21. Utility plan indicates 0.87% for the sanitary sewer grade. Revise plan to increase grade
to a minimum of 1% prior to site grading.
22. Sanitary sewer service shall be routed the nearest sanitary manhole to facilitate sewer
cleaning due to the zoning classification and proposed property use. Prior to site grading,
revise the plan to show the existing sanitary service connection to the main shall be
abandoned. A short liner shall be used in the sanitary main and the pipe shall be filled
with flowable fill or non-shrink grout to the property line. The line shall be capped at the
property line.
23. Staff recommends C900 PVC water main pipe material be considered.
24. Recommend testing requirements for the utility piping be considered with the utility
design. Install a new gate valve at the property line where the new water service piping
ties into the existing service piping.
25. Provide details on the plans for the grease trap prior to site grading.
26. Demolition plan shall include removal of existing service piping to the connection
locations prior to site grading.
27. The applicant shall coordinate with City staff prior to removal or construction of the
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services regarding inspection and traffic control on W 79 Street prior to site grading.
28. Once construction is complete, the applicant shall retain ownership of the proposed
sanitary service, water service and hydrant constructed on this property. Recommend
applicant consider flushing of the water service piping when selecting the location for the
hydrant.
29. The applicant shall follow the accessibility code for the construction as well as all
applicable State and Federal laws.
30. The applicant shall obtain permits from all applicable agencies which may include, but is
not limited to the MPCA, MnDOT, Riley Purgatory Bluff Creek Watershed District, ect.
Environmental Resources:
1. The applicant shall revise the landscape plan to accommodate more of the required
bufferyard trees in the south buffer yard area.
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2. The interior width of all landscape islands and peninsulas containing trees must be a
minimum of 10 feet. The east island shall be enlarged to a minimum interior width of 10
feet.
3. Any existing trees scheduled to be preserved that are lost due to construction activities
shall be replaced.
4. The Colorado spruce listed in the Plant Schedule shall be replaced with Black Hills
spruce.
5. Existing ash trees that are preserved must be treated for EAB, as approved by the city.
Failure to treat the trees, resulting in their death, will require replacement trees to be
planted.
Planning:
1. The applicant shall enter into a site plan agreement with the city and provide the
necessary security to guarantee erosion control, site restoration and landscaping.
2. A copy of the cross access/parking agreement shall be submitted to the city.
3. Wall lighting and the trash enclosure lighting shall comply with city code.
4. The proposed monument sign shall be relocated on the site to comply with city code.
5. Signage shall comply with city code and requires separate sign permits for each sign.
6. Bike racks shall be incorporated on site near the access sidewalk from Highway 5.
7. EIFS may be used provided that it is the Outsulation system with hydroponic coating, or
equivalents, installed with proprietary reinforcing meshes a minimum of six feet above
grade.
8. The entrance canopies and patio enclosure shall be painted a contrasting color from the
bronze windows and doors.
Water Resources:
1. Six inches of topsoil is required and will be verified by city staff. In grading notes on
page C3 it states 4 inches.
2. Topsoil needs to be specified.
3. Sequencing of Construction identifies no. 5 as to construct the temporary sedimentation
and sediment trap, but nowhere in the grading plan is it identified. Plans should identify
the bio-filtration basins be graded to be used as temporary sediment basin, along with
temporary outlets to allow stormwater to be pumped and drained too, during construction
of the site.
4. A design and planting plan approved by the Water Resources Coordinator is required for
this high visibility location. Seed mix is insufficient for these vegetated basins. You must
use species native to the ecoregion.
5. Sock should be eliminated from drain tile. Buckshot and or pea rock to surround
underdrain pipe.
6. Underdrain tile needs to be identified. Should be a HDPE Corrugated perforated plastic
tile. SCH 35, 40 PVC pipe is not allowed for underdrain.
7. Tile in bio-filtration basin needs to be placed on a minimum grade of 0.5 percent.
8. Plan details need to show a profile of the bio-retention basin with the grade of the tile
placement.
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9. All quantities of materials to be used, and specifications need to be identified on plan
sheet for contractor to bid and to construct.
10. Mixed D soil may not be used. We only use 75 percent washed sand and 25 percent leafy
compost.
11. Bio-filtration basin should be identified in sequencing that it should not be completed
until all surrounding watershed to basins are stabilized.
12. City staff to be called, and be on site when contractor is installing bio-filtration basin to
make sure the existing subsoil is scarified 18 inches below surface in bio-filtration basin
13. Contractor to have written statement as part of the pre-construction meeting, the means
and method of how they plan to scarify and protect the subsurface from compaction in
the bio-retention basin.
14. An approved operation and maintenance plan is required for all stormwater treatment
devices. Including contact information for person(s) responsible for maintenance as well
as person(s) performing onsite inspection and maintenance duties. The city must approve
operation and maintenance plans prior to permits being issued.
15. The city will hold the security on the project until vegetation is well established and the
planting is free of weeds. This may take a few growing seasons to achieve.
16. An additional drainage and utility easement shall be recorded over the drainage basins
located west and south of the parking lot.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0.
Mayor Laufenburger: Congratulations Panera and heart felt wishes to Larry and Jean. Thank you.
COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS.
Mayor Laufenburger: Any council member wishing to make a comment or a presentation at this time?
Councilman McDonald: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Laufenburger: Mr. McDonald go ahead.
Councilman McDonald: I guess since the last time we met you know kind of a lot’s happened. We had
Feb Fest in case you, I think you missed it.
Mayor Laufenburger: I did. I was otherwise occupied.
Councilman McDonald: But I have to tell you it was the perfect Feb Fest. It was colder than all get out.
There was snow on the ground. Mr. Gerhardt drills a heck of a fine hole let me tell you and people
seemed to be having a lot of fun and the people out there fishing I don’t even think noticed it was cold
and it was both man, wife and child so it was an amazing thing. I’m really surprised every year when I
look around how many families actually come out for that and I think it’s a real good time. And we had
plenty of other activities for people this year. We had a field goal in the spirit of the Super Bowl I think.
Field goal kicking contest so staff did a marvelous job I think getting the lake in good preparation and I
think everybody had a lot of fun so again it was another successful Feb Fest.
Mayor Laufenburger: Very well and I would say Mr. Campion go ahead.
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Chanhassen City Council – February 12, 2018
Councilman Campion: I just to piggy back on Councilman McDonald’s comments. I had the pleasure of
attending and brought my son and brother and cousins and partook in the ice fishing as well and all the
other activities and there was a lot of cool stuff going on. Still in I think 3 or 4 years of attending and
attempting to ice fish, haven’t caught anything bigger than the minnow that I put on my hook but it was
pretty impressive to see the size of northerns that were being dragged out of there. It was nothing like
I’ve seen in the past years. Usually the winning fish is slightly bigger than the minnows but this year that
wasn’t the case.
Councilman McDonald: Pretty good size ones.
Mayor Laufenburger: And the good news is they went back right in the water to get bigger for next year
so.
Councilman Campion: And I had the pleasure of standing in and announcing the winners of the fishing
contest and it was just cold enough that it did feel like it froze my face a bit as I was getting to
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announcing the 50 winner. My cheeks and tongue weren’t cooperating very well anymore.
Mayor Laufenburger: Well thank you Deputy Mayor for doing that duty. Appreciate it. Any other
council presentation?
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor I’d just like to add to thank the Rotary for their participation in all the events out
there. For them helping drill the holes out there. They’re a great partner and also Culver’s. They’re a
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great business partner here in town. They participate in the 4 and they participate in the Feb Fest.
That’s not easy setting up out there on the snow and those elements so John is greatly appreciated for his
efforts.
Mayor Laufenburger: Good, alright. Any other council presentations?
ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS. None.
CORRESPONDENCE DISCUSSION. None.
Councilman McDonald moved, Councilman Campion seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted
in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0. The City Council meeting was
adjourned at 10:05 p.m.
Submitted by Todd Gerhardt
City Manager
Prepared by Nann Opheim
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