CC VER 2019 02 11CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL
REGULAR MEETING
FEBRUARY 11, 2019
Mayor Ryan called the meeting to order at 7:05 p.m. The meeting was opened with the
Pledge to the Flag.
COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT: Mayor Ryan, Councilwoman Tjornhom, Councilman
McDonald, Councilman Campion, and Councilwoman Coleman
STAFF PRESENT: Todd Gerhardt, Kate Aanenson, Paul Oehme, Todd Hoffman and Andrea
Poehler
STAFF PRESENT:
Brent Carron 7059 Highover Drive
Brandon Brever MAPA
JoAnn and Marc Syverson 489 Pleasant View Road
Dake & Deirdre Chatfield 2200 Majestic Way
Senator Scott Jensen 9375 Pearson Lake Drive, Chaska
Joy Gorra 1680 West 78th Street
Laurie Susla 7008 Dakota Avenue
Shannon Arango 2362 Hunter Drive
Mayor Ryan: Thank you and welcome to this evening’s meeting. Are these on? There we go.
Thank you and welcome to this evening’s meeting. To those of that are watching at home on
Mediacom city cable channel or those who are livestreaming from Chanhassen’s website. We
are glad you can join us. For the record we have all of our members present tonight. Our first
action on our agenda is the approval. Council members are there any modifications to the
agenda as printed?
Councilman Campion: Yes Madam Mayor. For the consent agenda I’d like to remove item D(3)
and discuss that separately.
Mayor Ryan: Okay we’ll move item D(3) after the visitor presentations.
Councilman Campion: Okay.
Mayor Ryan: Does that work?
Councilman Campion: Yes.
PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: None.
Chanhassen City Council – February 11, 2019
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CONSENT AGENDA: Councilman Campion moved, Councilwoman Coleman seconded
to approve the following consent agenda items pursuant to the City Manager’s
recommendations:
1. Approve City Council Minutes dated January 28, 2019
2. Receive Planning Commission Minutes dated January 15, 2019
4. Approve 2019/2020 Lake Ann Park Beach Lifeguard Contract
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS.
Mayor Ryan: Next we have some planned visitor presentations. First up, welcome Senator
Jensen. Please if you would come to the podium and your name and address please.
Senator Scott Jensen: Good evening and thank you for inviting me to your meeting tonight.
Senator Scott Jensen, 9375 Pearson Lake Drive, Chaska, Minnesota, though it’s Laketown
Township.
Mayor Ryan: Welcome.
Senator Scott Jensen: And basically I wanted to just make myself available for any questions or
answers and I just thought that I would comment on two specific items that we’re dealing with at
the Capitol that might be of significant interest to the Chanhassen City Council. The first one
being transportation. As you probably know the bonding bill last year that passed did have I
think $11 million dollars in it for 101 reconstruction and you’re probably more aware of the
specifics of that timeline than I am but my understanding is it will start next year. The second
thing that we are doing right now in transportation coming up will be the 212. We have just
about accumulated the dollars necessary to complete Gap 1 which is essentially Carver to
Cologne and we’re now striving hard for the second gap to be plugged and that would be
Cologne to Norwood-Young America and we’re looking at both federal and state dollars.
Perhaps the more interesting thing for Chanhassen folks might be that we are preparing a Bill
and we’re going to start pushing for Highway 5 to be expanded as a 4 lane road at least to the
west of the Arboretum. Clearly the Arboretum, I guess you would say the Arboretum and
Highway 5 is a congested intersection frequently and it’s an expensive mile to redevelop from
the, if you will the east side of the Arboretum to the west side so I have a Bill prepared for that
and we’re dropping that in the next couple of weeks. Then the last thing would be health and
human services. We are cognizant of the fact that generally we’ve left many cities sort of
holding the bag and not having enough dollars to do what you need to do specifically in regards
to child care and often times in the foster programs and that’s being investigated pretty intensely
and the problem is we’ll be coming out with our forecast next week, or two weeks from now and
it doesn’t look like that $1.5 billion dollar forecast that we received in November is going to hold
Chanhassen City Council – February 11, 2019
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up. A fair amount of those dollars are already pledged just to the following biennium and that’s
regarded as the tails so that will eat up a lot of the money and we did just learn today that the
actual income taxes paid during the month of January are substantially less than they projected
so our money guess it’s going to be lean and in terms of having areas where we can grow the
budget that’s going to be pretty small. So that’s really my presentation. I’m pleased to be
serving you in St. Paul. I can’t say that it’s a bed of roses. Some days are good and some days
are incredibly frustrating but I suspect you have those same challenges but I would stand for any
questions and be glad to do my best to answer your questions or thoughts.
Mayor Ryan: Thank you Senator. Any questions of council? I have one actually, or did you
have one?
Councilman Campion: No.
Mayor Ryan: Sorry. I have one. It’s been brought to my attention, I think it’s coming to your
committee, your Health and Human Services, the Opioid Stewardship Bill. Is that something
you’ve seen or reviewed and any thoughts on that?
Senator Scott Jensen: Yes. I met with Senator Julie Rosen last week on Thursday, probably for
about an hour from 7:00 to 8:00 at night and we were just going over the final points and then we
met again today. There are probably 25 different Bills floating around the House and Senate
right now on opiates but the key opiate Bill will be the one that Senator Rosen’s working on
with, she’s on the Republican side of the aisle. The Democratic side of the aisle is Chris Eaton
and those two are working together with House authors. We really probably don’t have the
money in the general fund to get the kind of dollars we want because we’d like to have $20
million dollars to work with to start really making a substantial impact on reducing the likelihood
of opiate overdoses and getting folks not just past that crisis stage but into a treatment program
that works. Having said that we’re looking at the wholesalers. The manufacturers. We’re trying
to get at the pharmacy benefit managers and we’re trying to basically say everybody should
contribute to the solution here. Last year was disappointing in the sense that we thought that we
were ready to get the ball over the goal line and it didn’t happen. This year I’m quite confident
that something will get passed but in terms of it being as robust a Bill as Senator Rosen and
myself and many others would like it to be, I’m a little bit concerned because we’re dealing with
players that have so much man power and dollars at their disposal. Generally you’ll see the
manufacturers sort of hang on the sidelines until the 11th hour and then they’ll release literally
sometimes up to 2 lobbyist per senator or per representative and those people will be down at the
Capitol with no other business other than just to impact on us in terms of that Bill and that’s
when you start to see the support for what we thought was going to slide through, all of a sudden
it starts to fall away so I think we’ll get something done to be sure. I’m not optimistic that it will
be the $20 million dollar Bill that we want but I’m hoping it will be close. There’s a bigger
piece to that puzzle and I think that’s an education campaign. I’m not sure how we get at that
but a lot of Minnesotans and a lot of citizens don’t realize that of all the prescription drugs
consumed in the entire world, despite the fact that in this country we only occupy 5 percent of
Chanhassen City Council – February 11, 2019
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the population, we consume more than 50 percent of the prescription drugs. And despite the fact
that we’re only 5 percent of the world’s population we consume 85 percent of the narcotics and
despite the fact that we have only 5 percent of the population we consume 99 percent of the
OxyContin made in the world so there’s clearly a problem that’s bigger than just wholesalers and
manufacturers and PBM’s and doctors and people that are addicted to opiates. Clearly we at
some point in time are going to need to start thinking more about alternate measures, alternate
modalities, the slide down this slippery slope whereby we seem to think that if we can’t cut it out
or put a pill to deal with it, probably not the right answer.
Mayor Ryan: Alright, well thank you for your sponsor. It’s something that I have had some
questions on. I know Carver County is working on it from their perspective so just wanted to
touch base with you because I knew it was coming before your committee so I appreciate it.
And then one question, I know you mentioned this at the Chamber breakfast last week but if the
best times to get in touch with you and your availability with the residents in your area.
Senator Scott Jensen: Thank you very much Mayor Ryan. I appreciate that invitation. Often
times people will say is it possible to meet with me in the District and I enjoy that I know it’s
much more convenient but because we spend so much time at the Capitol now between now and
May 22nd, sometimes the best times for me are Saturday morning so if there are constituent
groups where you’d want to meet at 7:00, 8:00, 9:00 or 10:00 I often times will do 2, 3 or 4
breakfasts on Saturday morning and I prefer to do those with groups. If there’s a group of people
that have a common interest and so my cell phone is 612, if someone wants, if people want to
write it down. It’s 612-812-8158. 612-812-8158. It’s probably easier to schedule in district
meetings with me directly. I usually have my Legislative Assistant take of all my scheduling at
the Capitol but I would be glad to meet with folks and if people are going to be in the Capitol I
always want to know you’re coming down because it’s easily enough being pulled out of a
committee or something like that for a couple minutes just to say hi. Connect a face to a name
and see if there’s any burning issues you’d like to chat about. Again the political system works
best when you folks step forward and help give us shape and what our thoughts should be. What
our perspective should be and I really appreciate the work you do down here because the work
you do here really sets the stage for the work we’re asked to do down there. I suspect you’re
substantially more efficient than we are.
Mayor Ryan: Perfect. Thank you for coming tonight Senator Jensen, appreciate it. Oh go
ahead.
Todd Gerhardt: If you don’t mind I have a couple of questions. The first one is to extend our
appreciation for your support for 101 going up the bluff to Pioneer. Without your support I
know that project would not be moving ahead and from the residents of Scott County, Hennepin
County and Carver County we thank you for that support and we’ve started the project. Paul
Oehme, our City Engineer/Public Works Director has already started acquiring property along
the right-of-way. Council has officially mapped the corridor so acquisition has started. Design
has started so without your efforts that roadway would not have occurred so on behalf of the
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council and everybody thank you for your support and talking to your fellow legislators to
support that Bill.
Senator Scott Jensen: You’re very welcome and thank you City Manager Gerhardt. I still have
the 101 map that you brought down last year when they were lobbying. It’s behind my door and
I pull it out whenever I have a constituent group and I say this is the way you do it. You folks
were a well greased machine. You had your presentations in order. I think you had a gift of a
Chanhassen book ready for the Chair of the bonding committee in the Senate. He still laughs
about that. He said that was one smooth group so I think kudo’s to you folks. You made my job
very easy but it’s exciting and it will be fun to see 101 get done.
Todd Gerhardt: Our budget was huge so there was you know, there was no dollars unspent on
that.
Senator Scott Jensen: No and I think the $34 you folks ran through that really went a long ways.
Todd Gerhardt: One other thing that has been getting press is the City’s use of fees as a part of
our development of single family homes and it’s getting it’s way over to St. Paul and the word’s
getting out that we drove up the cost of housing because of the fees that cities charge for sewer
or water are the primary fees that we charge. When we annually look at our sewer and water
fees and usage charges what we’re really careful about is not over charging our existing residents
for that cost and pushing a percentage of that onto new growth which is generating the need for
those improvements so if you could just keep that in mind when you talk to your fellow
legislators that you know, that growth is what’s causing some of these fees to go up and we try to
protect our existing tax base that they’re not taking on the burden of growth in the community
and it’s pushed us to build additional water reservoirs. Water towers. Wells. Lift stations. And
also our second water treatment just came online and they’re not cheap. They’re about $22
million dollars each and we have two of them. And so when you use that number and start
dividing it by about 9,000 households the fees are pretty high and so that is the city side of fees
in a nutshell so I would be more than happy to testify or come and speak to other legislators
about our municipal fees if anybody has any questions regarding those.
Senator Scott Jensen: Thank you. There’s two things that probably happened there to get in
your way. One is your message in terms of trying to educate people to understand that you’re
going to try to allocate the expenses to the duration of use which you have to do otherwise it’s
not balanced nor is it fair but because that doesn’t fit on a bumper sticker it’s difficult to
demonstrate a convincing argument or discussion of it even so I think that’s a challenge and
good luck with that. I think people generally, I mean whether you’re in a school district and
you’re doing it with a new school, these kinds of things, how you proportion your debt load. I
think from the legislative side I believe most of the legislators understand that but that won’t
necessarily stop the rhetoric because the rhetoric is something that legislators are wed to, if you
will, and so often times rather than stop some of the committee testifiers and saying well hold it.
You know if you actually look at this often times there’s not a lot of teaching that goes on.
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There’s just sort of a pounding of the fist and the rhetoric comes forth and again that pushes it
right back onto your lap so that people really don’t come out of our arena with an improved
understanding. It’s sort of left to you. I sympathize with you and I can’t imagine any way for
me to make it easier for you but I will keep it in mind.
Todd Gerhardt: It was a good article. The reporter did their job. They used three quarters of it
to bash city fees and two sentences of why they are high so they gave both sides of the story and
like any reporter does Unsie is a model and so we have great reporting out here but I thought it
was a little unfair in the reporting of the article and I wanted to share that with you.
Senator Scott Jensen: Well Chanhassen is, didn’t you have the award for being one of the top
communities to live in within the last couple of years? I mean it speaks volumes to what you’ve
done and obviously one group’s efforts build on another group’s efforts and that’s the magic of
public service.
Todd Gerhardt: We strive for it every year and.
Senator Scott Jensen: I was hoping it wasn’t an every other year kind of thing.
Todd Gerhardt: But we appreciate that feedback and your service is outstanding. Thank you.
Senator Scott Jensen: Thank you very much. Have a good evening.
Mayor Ryan: Thanks Senator Jensen. We have two more visitor presentations. Before I ask the
scheduled presentations, before I ask them to come up I know they’re here, I’d like to again
speak about the new process for visitor presentations. This year we implemented a new way to
go about managing a request as they are presented during this portion of the meeting so if you
decide to come forward and your request includes an action item from staff or council we have
asked you to complete a Citizen Action Request form. This can be done one of two ways. It can
be done here in council chambers as the paperwork is available. Or there is a link as part of our
online agenda and it can be submitted accordingly. I want to clarify that if you are just here to
make a presentation or a comment and no action is required a form does not need to be filled out.
The reason for this new process is to ensure that your follow up requests are clearly understood
by both staff and council and that there is both follow up and follow through on our behalf. For
transparency the completed Citizen Action Request Form will then be included in the
correspondence section as part of the next meeting’s packet and it will include what action has
been taken and whether or not that request has been completed or further discussion is required
so this is a new process and I just wanted to make sure that everybody was aware of that so next
up we have Brent Carron scheduled. He submitted a form online. Please state your name and
address for the record.
Brent Carron: Mayor and council members, Brent Carron, 7059 Highover Drive, Chanhassen. I
have a packet if I could hand it out to you real quick.
Chanhassen City Council – February 11, 2019
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Mayor Ryan: Sure.
Brent Carron: So Senator Jensen hit a lot. He talked about saving money. He talked about
transportation and that’s what I’m here to talk to you about tonight. And mostly dealing with
some things that just came up on recent bids you guys had for Orchard Lane in Chanhassen and
it came to my attention and what this deals with is allowing wrap into the wear course which is
your top layer of your bituminous mix. And so I’ve got a packet here for you and you can kind
of follow along. Most of this is just for your information for later on. I’ll try to breeze through
it. If you have questions let me know. I’ve been in the asphalt industry for 26 years so I might
breeze a little fast if you’ve got a question here and try to save some time for you. But basically
I’m here to express my concern tonight about cost and budgeting and you guy’s budget and the
taxpayer dollar. And what I see right now is there’s a trend going on in the industry with cities
that they’re writing out the use of recycled asphalt pavement in the wear course and the base
courses as well. Recycle asphalt pavement is the millings from the road from old highways, old
roads and what we do is we use that back in the mix so the percentage of wrap that we an use in
recycled pavement, we just call it wrap, we can, MnDOT allows up to 30 percent. Most mixes
you can only get about 20 percent in based on the mix design and the formula that we have to use
so about 20 to 30 percent is what you can see to go in each ton of new mix. So wrap mixes and
virgin mixes have to be the same exact, meet the same exact requirements across all pavements
so MnDOT specification. Just because it’s a different material it still has to meet the same
specifications so it’s the same product. It’s just using a recycled product rather than virgin.
Wrap has a value and it’s a pretty significant value and we pass it along back to the owner or the
City in this matter in the form of lower mix cost and that can be from anywhere from $7 to $10 a
ton so pretty significant. Asphalt is the number one recycled product in the world, you might
have not known that but according to the latest survey that NAPA which is the National Asphalt
Pavement Association, there was 76.2 million tons of wrap recycled in 2017 saving the taxpayers
about $2.2 billion dollars so it’s a significant cost. So before I get into anything else you can flip
to page 2 and this just shows Highway 7 last year, if you are traveling east. Apologize. But
that’s a milling machine putting wrap up into a dump truck. The third page is what wrap kind of
looks like when we put it into a pile. It’s just old recycled asphalt. It comes out about 3 inch in
size. 2 to 3 inches after it goes out the conveyer and we dump it. Then next page is your city
specification. 2360 is a MnDOT specification so the city uses MnDOT specs so plant mixed
asphalt pavement, it says your different types of wearing course that you have there and if you
turn to the second page.
Mayor Ryan: Brent?
Brent Carron: Yep.
Mayor Ryan: Do you have an extra that we could put up on the screen to show any of these
photos?
Chanhassen City Council – February 11, 2019
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Todd Gerhardt: Here you can take mine.
Brent Carron: Go like this?
Todd Gerhardt: Yep perfect.
Mayor Ryan: Perfect, thank you.
Brent Carron: Yep. So here’s where in your spec it states that asphalt, recycled asphalt
pavement materials otherwise known as wrap, the contractor may not utilize this in the final wear
course. So basically what you’re stating is that you want 100 percent virgin mix on your final
wear course, which is a cost and I believe it’s a cost that’s not needed. Wrap mix I believe, and
there’s data to prove it that it’s the same exact mix and even a better mix as far as my mind as far
as stability goes as a virgin mix. So that’s one of the main issues. Well that is the main issue of
why I’m here tonight. If you keep going in we’ve got different things to talk about that I pulled
off the internet here. Here’s FHWA, reclaimed asphalt pavement. And maybe one thing that
would help out to understand a little bit about the mix design is, on this page here and if you look
in the blue box, I tried to write it out but asphalt mix is 94.5 percent rock and sand and only 5.5
percent oil. However of that 5.5 percent oil, if you go up to the pink, if your mix is $50 a ton
your liquor AC or the oil is $33 or 66 percent of the cost. So it’s a very expensive component of
the mix that we use even though it’s only 5.5 percent of the total mix. So you can kind of see
there materials as far as percentage cost is huge. Plant production, trucking and then me and my
company when it comes down to it you get a bargain to lay down. All contractors I should say
actually. Next page is just some conclusions and some recommendations. It obviously states
that virgin mixes are more expensive. Wrap mixes are more cost effective. It helps you save.
The designs are completely the same and it’s a well balanced product. It’s a good use of product.
This next page here is a letter that I had Commercial Asphalt write to you and you can read it if
you want but I just want to highlight a couple things here where it basically says that commercial
asphalt is probably your number one mix provider for this city. There are other contractors that
produce their own mix that bring asphalt to your city but commercial is probably their number
one and of the last 5 years they produced 16 million tons of asphalt and out of that only one-tenth
of a percent of all that tons did the have issues with deleterious material in it which was a crack
filler so when we crack fill our streets and we put that rubber in there, that rubber is in the wrap.
Sometimes it gets back into the mix and then it comes out through so you’ll have like, it looks
like snakes in your asphalt. And when it does come through you’re supposed to pick it out and
then the asphalt plant usually does a pretty good job of making sure it gets picked through so, but
long story short one-tenth of a percent out of 16 million tons so it’s not a huge deal for
Commercial. They’ve got good controls of the wrap pile and they produce a really good mix for
you so that’s a good thing and that’s written by Chris Benson who is a professional engineer for
Commercial Asphalt. Next page is just a Minnesota Asphalt Paving Association. I’ve asked
Brandon Brever to be here tonight too. He’s Executive Director and a P.E. for MAPA and he’s a
great resource to bounce ideas off of for asphalt and road construction and that’s there. And then
your last page is something that I want to talk about and one of the reasons why I believe that
Chanhassen City Council – February 11, 2019
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we’re riding out wrap here on the wear course for Chanhassen is that there’s a fear that we’re
going to have foreign in the wear course and it’s going to make it look not pretty. And that is a
case. With Commercial Asphalt it’s one-tenth of a percent out of 16 million. Other contractors I
can’t speak for but my question tonight and my action asking of the council is if we’ve got a
really well known producer that does a really good job and maybe there’s one bad apple or
maybe you know one or two bad projects throughout the years, why are we using citizen’s
money and the taxpayer’s money in your guy’s budget on making a more expensive mix just to
make sure that we don’t have that one-tenth of a percent chance? I think the cost outweighs the
chance of having this put into, having it come into our mix so this is a spec out of 2360 which is
MnDOT. Here’s the full entire spec. It’s 32 pages. This is just dealing with asphalt. All 32
pages so we’re used to specs. We live and die by them. This is our Bible. This is an expert of it
and at the bottom where I highlighted finished surface of each lift must be free of segregated and
open and torn sections and deleterious material and excluding a different way, so basically what
it’s saying is you can’t have it. And if you do the Department will pay for the material at a
reduced cost of $10 per square yard. $10 per square yard is the entire cost of what it takes to
actually lay it down. It’s 100 percent. Probably even more than that so that’s a pretty tough
spec. Now I’m not saying we have to use that but I’m saying that the tools are in the tool shed
for our inspectors to use that and to educate if there is a contractor out there that’s not doing the
right thing, here it is right here in black and white that the City can take action on it. So I ask the
City tonight to consider this and to consider is it worth $7 to $10 a ton on all of our mixes going
down in this city to have it as a virgin material for a one-tenth of a percent chance that something
might come up in the surface area. Me personally we pride ourselves on doing a quality job and
we teach our guys that if something does come back to just pick it out of the wearing course.
You can fix it right there. If you ignore it that’s an issue and I understand that issue but I think
the proof and the cost here is something that the council should consider so thank you for your
time. If you have any questions.
Mayor Ryan: Thank you. Any questions or comments?
Councilman Campion: I have one question. Brent I, there are a lot of good numbers here. It’s
good data. On a typical project how much extra savings or how much savings would be possible
percentage wise on a typical project?
Brent Carron: So your Orchard Lane reconstruct job I believe your asphalt wearing course
mixture which was top lift was about 1,200 ton so 1,200 ton by $7 to $10 savings. Now in your
larger jobs when you’re doing your collector streets when you’re doing 4,000-5,000 ton it just
exponentially grows.
Councilman Campion: Okay thank you. That helps.
Brent Carron: Yep.
Mayor Ryan: Thank you Brent.
Chanhassen City Council – February 11, 2019
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Brent Carron: Thank you very much.
Mayor Ryan: Appreciate this submission and we will be back in touch with you. Thank you.
Next who also submitted something JoAnn Syverson.
JoAnn Syverson: Well I appreciate the opportunity to talk to you today.
Mayor Ryan: Excuse me JoAnn, would you mind stating your name and address please. Thank
you.
JoAnn Syverson: JoAnn Syverson, 489 Pleasant View Road in Chan. I’m going to talk to you
today. I lost it. Anybody. I know you can hear me.
Todd Gerhardt: The volume went down.
Councilman Campion: Now it’s good.
JoAnn Syverson: Is it okay now? Okay. I’m going to talk about why I believe Lotus Lake
needs wake surfing regulations implemented and this is an issue that is prevalent on our lake but
also the whole state, the whole country and Canada. These, the complaints on wake surfing are
prevalent everywhere. So I’m using the doc cam kind of like a power point here. According to
the Minnesota DNR Boating Guide it is against the law to operate a watercraft so it’s washer
wake endangers, harasses or interfere with any person or property. That’s the law. Also
according to the Boating Guide everyone has the right to use public waters as long as they do not
interfere with other people’s rights to enjoy their favorite activity. And these are the words out
of the Boating Guide. Their example creating a large wake too close to someone who is fishing,
thus disturbing the angler as well as endangering their life. So I’m here today, and I know I
don’t have volume here again. Oh I do, okay. I’m here because I am representing concerned
Lotus Lake users and we’re asking for not a ban but a way to allow all users of the lake to be
able to enjoy the lake together and so we’re asking for some regulation of the wake surfing boats.
Quick agenda, wake surfing is not water skiing or wake boarding. I am not talking about water
skiing or wake boarding. It is purely wake surfing. It’s a different sport and I’m going to talk
about the two types of harms that wake surfing are causing Lotus Lake. Environmental and
safety concerns and then I’m just going to give you some ideas of what some possible
regulations could be that hopefully would enable everyone to enjoy the lake together. In the
DNR booklet the regulations cluster all boat towing sports together. All the rules are the same
for the three and they aren’t the same. Water skiing has minimal wake. Wake boarding has
more than skiing but wake surfing has wake that is 4 times more powerful than wake boarding.
And what you see above the water is also existing below the water causing turbulence and
damage to aquatic life and plants and you’re going to see churned up nutrients that cause weed
growth and algae in the lake and so wake surfing wakes are the problem and they are causing
these harm to the lake. These are two testimonials from people on the lake and I put them in
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because they sum up the two types of harms. People are being driven off the lake. It didn’t used
to be this way. We all got along. Kayakers. Canoers. Swimmers. Boaters. I get off the lake
now when I see surfing boats because the wakes scare me since I’ve been swamped and come
close to tipping multiple times when the surfing boats are out and it’s now worth it. And then
also the other type of damage is with shoreline erosion that is being caused by the surfing boats
and this person said my shoreline has eroded tremendously in the last 3 years with the onslaught
of wake boats. I lose property every time these surf wakes hit and I know have a small cliff
dropping off into the water along my shoreline. So let’s talk about the environmental harms. I
already did mention that the size of the wake above the water is equal to the size of the wake
below and how the wakes above the water are scaring people and tipping boats but the wake
under the water is also doing a lot of damage to the environment. And believe me this deck
started out with about 100 slides and then when I found out I only had 5 minutes I have cut it so
much but I do have some appendix pieces in the back that I won’t talk about but you’re, you
know they’re there for you to see. I have done a lot of research and I have data that supports
these claims. These are not based on opinion. Shoreline erosion. You can see the map of Lotus
with the red line showing you the route that the surf boats take, back and forth. Back and forth.
Sometimes for hours because wake surfing is not tiring and you get a boat full of surfers and they
take turns and you’ve got those boats going up and back and these wakes are crashing into the
shoreline. I mean it looks like the ocean seriously and anybody else out there at the same time is
also being crashed into so the lake is, this is a 1.3 mile run. The width of the lake is between 500
and 800 feet so if you get two wake, surf wake boats out there you’re supposed to have 150 feet
distance between you the boat and the shoreline, other boats, swimmers. It just doesn’t add up.
They’re not keeping the distance. And safety. To me this is very serious. I am afraid for my
grandchildren when they’re out there. Even when they’re playing along the beach because I’ve
seen what those wakes can do and you get paddleboarders, canoers, kayakers, there is no way
they can survive the wake of a surf boat. So and also wake surf boats have the, all the attention
toward the back of the boat where the ballast are full of water weighing the boat down and
everyone’s looking out the back. The front of the boat is sticking up in the air. The view of the
driver is totally obstructed. It’s scary. If you look at this boat, this is a Pavati. This is a new
type of wake boat. It is going to be able to carry 6,000 pounds of water in addition to 5,000
pounds of boat and you have the bottom of these boats sticking into the water creating these
massive wakes. Where is it going to end up? Boat manufacturers are trying to beach each other.
How much can Lotus Lake endure? It’s not a big lake but there are no regulations on boat size,
boat weight, or wake size. So these are some possible local solutions and you can help protect
the lake because you can recommend regulations be placed on the lake and submit them to the
DNR. You would not implement the regulations. The DNR would do that but you can
recommend them. My husband wrote an email to the DNR actually at the beginning of, or last
week. He got an answer right away and the reason that I put this answer here is because it shows
that the DNR knows it’s a concern in all of Minnesota. The DNR knows that wake surfers are
breaking laws. And the DNR recommended that he go to local elected officials with these
concerns and thus I am here tonight. So I know I’m over on my time so I’ll go very quickly
here. What can we do? Well we can more vigorously enforce existing boating laws and
remember it is the law that it is illegal to operate a watercraft so it’s washer wake endangers,
Chanhassen City Council – February 11, 2019
12
harasses or interferes with others or their property. These boats are not keeping the 150 foot
distance that is required by law so yes there might have to be more sheriffs patrolling the water.
Bryan Lake in Eden Prairie has a local ordinance that has a minimum, or a maximum speed limit
on Sundays for certain hours. That is totally their regulation. Their ordinance. We could have
some ordinances on Lotus Lake and I’ve given you some examples but that I think both sides
could live with but you can look at those and you know decide on your own. And then we need
to publicize the existing boating regulations and inform people of any new surfing regulations
that might come about and that is with signage. I always though if we had signage at the boat
ramp to remind people of the rules with wake surfing boats that it possibly could make a
difference, just the signage so, and then of course mailing a letter to the homeowners because
they wouldn’t see the sign at the ramp. So your next steps are to meet with me. I mean I’ve
done a lot of research here if you have any questions and perhaps recommend that I speak to
parks and rec or other committees on the, in the city government. You will decide whether
which regulations are appropriate. You would recommend them to the DNR and then the DNR
would decide on implementation.
Mayor Ryan: Ms. Syverson?
JoAnn Syverson: Yes.
Mayor Ryan: Can we, we’re well over, I gave Mr. Carron a little extra time as well but if you
could just.
JoAnn Syverson: Okay I’m sorry. I’m done.
Mayor Ryan: Because the purpose of this is to introduce a topic and then we’ll discuss it as
council. If you want to make one more point that would be great please.
JoAnn Syverson: Okay. Then the point I’m making is that let’s go back to the Boating Guide
quotes where everyone has the right to use the public waters and it’s against the law to harass or
interfere with other people. I hope that something can be done before someone is seriously
injured and it’s going to happen. What will we do then?
Mayor Ryan: Perfect, thank you. Thank you for the presentation.
CONSENT AGENDA: 3. APPROVE KEY FINANCIAL STRATEGIES AND
LEGISLATIVE PRIORITIES.
Mayor Ryan: Next on our agenda this evening is consent agenda item D-3 that got moved off
the consent agenda. Councilman Campion this was your’s if you want to discuss.
Councilman Campion: Yeah so I would like to address the KFS list that is slated for approval.
And I specifically wanted to add an amendment for the formation of an Economic Development
Chanhassen City Council – February 11, 2019
13
Commission under the section for enhancing the local tax base. And this is follow up based on
discussions that we had at our work session and 3 of the council members ranked this item as
their top priority of the possible KFS goals for 2019. And I think this item is very important for
the city. I feel that this commission could act as a recommending body to the EDA and provide
recommendations and advice for making our business community in Chanhassen more vibrant
than it is today.
Mayor Ryan: Okay, is there any discussion from council on, I know we discussed the KFS, you
know everybody put forward their different goals and we discussed it at our last meeting. You
want to add one back into the overall KFS goals for the upcoming year. Are there any comments
as it relates to Mr. Campion’s recommendation or amendment to the overall goals?
Councilman McDonald: Yeah.
Mayor Ryan: Councilman McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: Thank you Madam Mayor. Yes we discussed this in council. We also
had rules in place that anything that was a 2 and above would go forward. It was brought up that
maybe we should look at changing that and that’s fine going forward but the rule and the
agreement was, it was a 2.0 or higher. This item did not make the cut. I spoke on that. I’m not
going to re-speak as to why I’m against it but I do not believe that, I do not believe that this type
of run around is really a legitimate use of trying to get this thing I think before the council. If the
majority feels that way that’s fine and at that point I guess anyone that disagrees with the council
does not have a voice going forward. I will vote against this. I am still against it for the reasons
I stated at the work session but we will vote on it.
Mayor Ryan: Any other comments?
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Yes I do. This was an exercise on what our goals and strategies were
and there were rules and I followed them. I numbered what I thought was appropriate and I too
gave my reasons and other members of the council did the same thing and those numbers did not
add up to making it be a goal. But if we’re going to go back and, even if it didn’t make the cut
we’re still going to vote on it and push it through anyway then the whole process is worthless
and then I think we need to really go back and look at everything and maybe not even do this
again because if the rankings and the numbers that we put down don’t really mean anything
because we’re going to bring it back anyway and vote it in then this is futile exercise and so I too
will not be supporting it for the reasons I stated in the work session when we did this but also just
on principle. That this was something that we had agreed upon that we would do as a group and
then we would move forward with the rankings that made it and diligently and respectfully
complete these goals. And obviously that is not, that’s not what’s going to happen so I’m very
disappointed that we were led down a path of believing that that’s what we were doing when in
fact it’s not what we’re going to be doing.
Chanhassen City Council – February 11, 2019
14
Mayor Ryan: Thank you. Councilwoman Coleman.
Councilwoman Coleman: Yeah Councilman Campion will the description be the same as it was
on the original KFS priority proposition list?
Councilman Campion: It will be the same except for making the difference that it’s an
Economic Development Commission and otherwise it would be a recommending body as
described in the original KFS proposal.
Councilwoman Coleman: Alright thank you.
Mayor Ryan: Any other comments?
Councilwoman Coleman: Yes I will be supporting this. I had mentioned before in the work
session that I did find that the system was flawed if a majority of council ranks it their number
one priority for other members of the council to be able to completely derail an agenda item so
this does have my support. I think our business community has loudly asked for this and I would
like to see this happen.
Mayor Ryan: And I’ll make a couple comments as well. This was the goal that I had put
forward. I had initially called it an Economic Development Authority which this council stands
as but through our discussions, I was willing to change it or agreed to change it to a commission
as a recommending body to bring forward new ideas and thoughts. As we’ve all discussed or
you’re learning the way that we set our goals is we rank them in priority 1 through 4, 1 being
highest priority. 4 ranking it at the lowest priority and as Councilman McDonald stated anything
with a 2 or above makes it onto council goals this year and as was in the packet and shared 3,
you know 3 of the council members, one including myself ranked it as their number one priority
and yet it still didn’t make the list because it ranked as the lowest from other council members
so, so although it you know may be a flawed process or you know in some cases people feel or
council members feel that it delegitimizes the entire process, you know we, we work with
majority when we are making decisions and the majority of the council did feel that this was
their number one priority so it is something that I will be supporting as well. If there is a motion
to make the amendment we have to have that motion first. So if there is an amendment to the
approval of the 2019 Key Financial Strategies and Legislative Priorities.
Councilman Campion: Yes I’ll complete, so I move to amend the City of Chanhassen 2019
annual goals and KFS strategies to add under the Section Enhance Local Tax Base to consider
the establishment of an Economic Development Commission and other than changing authority
to a commission it’s worded the same as what was proposed.
Mayor Ryan: Do we have a valid motion? We have a valid motion. Is there a second?
Councilwoman Coleman: I second the motion.
Chanhassen City Council – February 11, 2019
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Mayor Ryan: We have a valid motion and a second.
Councilman Campion moved, Councilwoman Coleman seconded that the Chanhassen City
Council amends the City of Chanhassen 2019 annual goals and KFS strategies to add
under the Section Enhance Local Tax Base to consider the establishment of an Economic
Development Commission as a recommending body. All voted in favor, except Councilman
McDonald and Councilwoman Tjornhom who opposed, and the amendment carried with a
vote of 3 to 2.
Mayor Ryan: Next on our agenda.
Councilman McDonald: Excuse me Madam Mayor, I believe you need to vote on the total of the
amendment. You cannot just vote on one piece of it. It was on the consent agenda. It’s got to
be the entire thing that’s got to be voted on.
Mayor Ryan: He read it as the full motion did he not?
Councilman Campion: Yeah it was an amendment to the, an addition to. Okay.
Mayor Ryan: Thank you Councilman McDonald.
Councilman Campion: So I propose a motion that the City Council adopts the 2019 Key
Financial Strategies and 2019 Legislative Priorities as amended.
Mayor Ryan: We have a valid motion. Is there a second?
Councilwoman Coleman: I’ll second the motion.
Councilman Campion moved, Councilwoman Coleman seconded that the Chanhassen City
Council adopts the 2019 Key Financial Strategies and 2019 Legislative Priorities as
amended. All voted in favor, except Councilman McDonald and Councilwoman Tjornhom
who opposed, and the amendment carried with a vote of 3 to 2.
Mayor Ryan: That motion carries 3-2.
KEY FINANCIAL STRATEGIY: REVIEW THE PRACTICE FOR ADDRESSING
CITIZEN REQUESTS FOR TRAFFIC SAFETY CONCERNS.
Mayor Ryan: Next a new business, a key financial strategy review of the practice for addressing
citizen requests for traffic safety concerns. Mr. Oehme.
Chanhassen City Council – February 11, 2019
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Paul Oehme presented the staff report on this item. Portions of the staff report were not
picked up on the microphone.
Paul Oehme: …reducing speed limits is likely however to not reduce the speeding in traveling
neighborhoods. Typically what we’re finding is that the driving public will go the speed that
they’re most comfortable with. It’s kind of based upon the road width. Pedestrians in the area.
Parked vehicles in the road. Topography…public perceives as a safe speed. So if we find you
know that residents come in to request that the City look at the speed limit in that area…you to
try to address those issues so you can utilize various educational tools to address the speeding
problem so, and then we talk to the property owners and we can put out those radar speed
feedback signs. We have completed public awareness campaigns. Letters, flyers, those type of
things. We have had website…residential areas. And then we also have targeted enforcement as
well…group settings as well at National Night Out and have been out talking to property owners
about speeding… The City can send out letters as well asking owners to, just addressing traffic,
potential speeding… So next item, one of the bigger items we receive requests for installing a
stop sign at an intersection in a neighborhood. Stop signs are typically intended… They’re really
not intended to address speeds in traffic engineering. Cut through traffic…there’s a set warrant
that the State of Minnesota has…
Paul Oehme showed a video at this point in the staff report.
Paul Oehme: So that video was put together by a request of a lot of local agencies of cities in the
state just because everybody’s kind of in the same boat, everybody has the same requests that
come in so…local road agencies just decided to have one consistent message… One other thing
that, so one other request that the City frequently has is like when we have a speed bump or a
speed hump within our neighborhood so the City has not installed speed bumps…following
reasons. Speeds increase between the humps…speed humps can cause delays for police and fire
vehicles…
Mayor Ryan: Council any questions? Mr. Oehme I have a couple? Did you have one?
Councilman Campion: Not yet.
Mayor Ryan: Okay. So you know really great information for the residents to understand the
signs and whether they work or don’t work. I know you get a lot of requests and comments for a
variety of things. We as council members also get the phone calls and the requests and then you
know asking somebody to come out. Other than the request tracker form, you know how can we
similar to the Citizen Request Form. You know is there a way to have that information compiled
so neighborhoods can see what’s been done, like just historical knowledge to make it, I mean
maybe that’s out there. So they can see okay, they made the request. They’ve had police sitting
there to monitor the speed. They’ve had, you know had different things. I’m just, I’m trying to
make this a little bit more tangible for residents because even though this is valid information
Chanhassen City Council – February 11, 2019
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I’m wondering what then, you know the next steps or how we can put this all together to make
sense for the residents.
Paul Oehme: Sure so great question. So certain neighborhoods we usually get more calls…
Mayor Ryan: Right and you do a great job and I know you’re very receptive to getting out there
and addressing these concerns mine, and we can take this off line for further conversation on
kind of the how to piece of it but you know so we’re not addressing the same neighborhood, not
that we wouldn’t address them over and over again but if there’s a way for residents then to
access you know online to look at the historical data of information that we have so they are
aware and instead of you pulling a file and emailing it on, if there’s something again we can look
at this further but just in terms of your, when you put forward the key financial strategy I guess
kind of that next step that I was hoping for personally was then okay, how then is this tangible
for the residents and is that next step compiling that data and having it readily available for
residents to click on something and see it in their neighborhood so just food for thought going
forward.
Paul Oehme: It’s a great idea…
Mayor Ryan: Perfect thank you. Any other questions or comments? Thank you Mr. Oehme.
COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS. None.
ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS.
Todd Gerhardt gave an update on items on the agenda for the City Council’s February 25th
meeting and scheduling commission interviews following that meeting.
CORRESPONDENCE DISCUSSION.
Mayor Ryan: Any questions or comments?
Todd Gerhardt: …accounts payable, building permit data. January is always kind of light from
a building concern there. And then we have the analytic overview for our website in 2019 for
January and most the hits were for commissions…
Mayor Ryan: Perfect. And before I ask for a motion to adjourn I’d like to extend a big
congratulations and thanks to the parks department for your outstanding job at Feb Fest. It was a
beautiful day. Great turnout. Amazing prizes sponsors. Just a really, a really fun day out at
Lake Ann so thank you for all of the hard work and coordination that you put forward to make
that event another 26th year of, 26 years of success so thank you for your hard work.
Todd Hoffman: You’re welcome.
Chanhassen City Council – February 11, 2019
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Mayor Ryan: Please pass along that. Thank you very much. With that I would take a motion
for adjournment.
Councilman Campion moved, Councilwoman Coleman seconded to adjourn the meeting.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0. The City
Council meeting was adjourned at 8:25 p.m.
Submitted by Todd Gerhardt
City Manager
Prepared by Nann Opheim