CC VER 2019 06 10CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL
REGULAR MEETING
JUNE 10, 2019
Mayor Ryan called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. The meeting was opened with the
Pledge to the Flag.
COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT: Mayor Ryan, Councilwoman Tjornhom, Councilman
McDonald, Councilman Campion, and Councilwoman Coleman
STAFF PRESENT: Todd Gerhardt, Chelsea Petersen, Kate Aanenson, Jason Wedel, Todd
Hoffman, Roger Knutson, Greg Sticha, and MacKenzie Walters
Mayor Ryan: I haven’t hit the gavel in a while after all that mayor, young mayors that we’ve had
the last few times. Thank you everybody for coming to this evening’s meeting. To those of you
that are watching at home on Mediacom cable channel or those who are livestreaming from the
Chanhassen website, we’re glad you can join us. For the record we have all of our members
present tonight so our first action is our agenda approval. Councilmembers are there any
modifications to the agenda as printed? If not we will proceed with the published agenda.
PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: None.
CONSENT AGENDA:
Mayor Ryan: Are there any items that the council would like to consider separately? Or
anybody here. Please state your name and address.
Laurie Susla: My name is Laurie Susla. My address is 7008 Dakota Avenue. There was a late
addition to the consent agenda today regarding no wake situations and I was just curious is that
still on the consent agenda as well tonight?
Mayor Ryan: Yes it’s D-8.
Laurie Susla: Okay I would ask that that be pulled so that could be discussed.
Mayor Ryan: Okay.
Laurie Susla: Thank you.
Mayor Ryan: Thank you Ms. Susla. We will move that item under New Business to G-4.
Laurie Susla: Excuse me, can I walk up here again? Should I say what I would like to see it
…during the visitor presentation or wait that for that part of the agenda?
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Mayor Ryan: Wait til that part of the agenda.
Laurie Susla: Thank you so much.
Mayor Ryan: Yeah thank you. Alright with the item moved to item D-8 moved to G-1, is there
a motion to approve consent agenda items D-1 through 7.
Councilman Campion: So moved.
Councilwoman Coleman: Second.
Councilman Campion moved, Councilwoman Coleman seconded that the City Council
approve the following consent agenda items pursuant to the City Manager’s
recommendations:
1. Approve City Council Minutes dated May 28, 2019
2. Receive Planning Commission Minutes dated May 21, 2019
3. Approve Subdivision with Variance for Lotus Woods (formerly Eidsness)
4. Approve Stipulation for Settlement Agreement for Acquisition of Property located at 740
Vogelsberg Trail in Conjunction with the Highway 101 Improvements, City Project No.
14-08
5. Approval of Feasibility Study with HKGi for Trail Plan Concepts and Natural Resource
Inventory on the Newly Acquired Parkland at Lake Ann Park
6. Approve Temporary On-Sale Liquor License Request: St. Hubert Catholic Community;
Harvest Festival on September 14, 2019
7. Approve Joint Powers Agreement with Carver County for TH 5 Regional Trail and
Underpass
8. Pulled by Laurie Susla for separate discussion.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS.
Mayor Ryan: We do tonight have one scheduled visitor presentation so I will ask Mr. Litfin to
come forward. Welcome again. Nice to see you.
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Tim Litfin: Thank you Madam Mayor, council members, city staff, community members, thank
you for having me here tonight. Appreciate the opportunity to talk about Tour de Tonka, a great
event that is great because it comes through the great city of Chanhassen and probably does so
each and every year with 7 of the 8 rides all rolling right through here coming up real soon on
Saturday, August 1st and I’ll run through it quickly. I know you’ve got a full agenda but here’s a
little Tour de Tonka by the numbers up in front of you. We’ve got a little gift there in front of
you and you can use however you wish. I was talking to Todd about that earlier and it’s like
what do you do with it? Well that’s up to you so have fun with that little stuffed logo. Little
Tour de Tonka by the numbers and I’ll take the lowest number right off the bat and that’s
number one and we’ve had 12 out of 13 great runs. Last year the one year we had to cancel
because of thunderstorms in the area and really all that weekend so that happens unfortunately.
It’s only happened one time and we’re batting good average so we’ll keep that going this year.
13 is the number of rest stops you can enjoy when you ride Tour de Tonka this year. 54, the
number of bike jerseys that Todd Gerhardt has bought in the past. No that’s the number of t-
shirts that were sold last year. The event 74 represents the number of…that have come with
riders to Tour de Tonka from Minnesota the past run of 13 years and 420, if you added up all the
miles together back to back on all routes and trails that’s how long Tour de Tonka is in one fell
swoop. Moving forward, volunteers is what makes it go as do riders. Volunteers if you’re out
there 600 strong is what it takes to pull off this wonderful event and they come from Chanhassen
as well as they come from all the communities around us and we thank them and we look
forward to them and if you’re out there Tour de Tonka.org will get you to a volunteer spot as
well as riders. We take riders all throughout, right now on up to the morning of the event so
please consider that as well council members if you’re interested. This map shows where all the
riders have come from in the history of Tour de Tonka and I’m not going to talk about the nasty
red states because we haven’t had one those states yet but all the other states are just grand and
glorious and it’s kind of cool to see that Illinois is really one of the most popular states away
from Minnesota which is pretty cool. Not touching us but they send a lot of riders from the
Chicago area as do riders from the Chanhassen area as you’ll see that in a little bit. Here’s
Minnesota county by county as I mentioned earlier. Anybody here from the far western side
who are looking for cousins, relatives, etcetera to…those white counties. And top cities that
have participated, the City of Chan is number 5 and you’ve gone from number 2 through 4, 5, 6,
7, right in there. Just kind of every year’s a little different and if you look at the far right column
you can see that those numbers are down and that’s because of what happened last year with the
storms. Those are last year’s numbers but we’re down by that much. From Wednesday on it
was just like somebody shut the faucet off of riders. They saw the weather forecasting and that
kept them away and that’s understandable but this year we’ll bring them all back strong. Then
the top 20 communities are the next group of cities. There are a lot of them right around us and
then you start moving to the eastern side of the metro. And the demographics of this event really
have been very consistent with about 65 percent male riders and the rest are female but both
groups are strong. We did have a 2 year old that registered last year. Mom and dad…talking
point tonight for you but that 88 year old gentleman he was ready to go the year before he rode at
87 so we’ll keep him coming back as well I hope this year. We raise money for the ICU Food
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Shelf and they service many communities right around us and that is a good thing for us to do
and we’re glad to partner with them. All the cities we go through and I mentioned Chan at the
top of that list…but those are the communities that we go through and new on the list this year is
New Germany so way out west you can be part of that group as well. The 100 mile ride goes
through New Germany and as I mentioned earlier 7 out of 8 rides all come through Chanhassen
so thanks to city management for working with us to make sure this event is happening and the
streets I know are just going to be perfectly level. They always are here in Chanhassen so thank
you for that. Police and fire outstanding and we can’t do it without safety and they provide all of
that and you can see Carver County sheriff’s on there as well as Chan Fire so great groups of
people to work with. They are paid. They need to be paid. They should be paid and we thank
them and we need them. This year 8 different businesses and they’re in front of you so we have
1, 2, 3, 4, 5 council members. City staff has 8. Pick your distance and whoever goes the 100 I’ll
leave that up to you but we welcome one and all and it will be a fun event for sure. Registration.
This is kind of a fun thing I put together here well a couple of weeks ago and it just shows very
consistent pattern through the years which was astounding to me as you reflect just on the last 5
years that it’s very consistent and that’s a good thing to know because you don’t get too shook up
about where they’re coming from or when they’re coming. We just keep marketing and hope.
There’s one big map of where everything goes on that one day, Saturday, August 3rd and so we
can see there pretty much all around Chan and in Chan and that’s a good thing and so if you’re
out there and you want to ride that day and jump down and let’s see you out there on 2 wheels.
Oh 3 wheels we have some. Rest stops. Chanhassen has a beautiful rest stop here at Bluff Creek
and that is a fun rest stop for the 30 and the 36 mile riders and when you can have food, music
and dance and ride all those good things. Sponsors are wonderful. We partner with so many
good people and these are our sponsors for this year and many of them just come back year after
year and I’ll plug Dominoes just because they’re part of the gift that you have in front of you
tonight as well as all of our other good sponsors that are in front of you. And there’s this year’s
t-shirt that you’ll all be wearing and so a little sneak peak at that and we look forward to having
you on Saturday, August 3rd and again if you’re out there as a rider or a volunteer
tourdetonka.org. Thank you very much and appreciate your time tonight.
Mayor Ryan: Thank you Mr. Litfin. Council any questions? Well I just want to compliment, oh
go ahead. Alright well I just want to commend you I know it’s a fantastic event. We’re always
happy that you come through the city and, but from the feedback that I have received over the
years it is extremely well run. I know it was disappointing last year with the terrible weather but
luckily that number was only one and we just appreciate you coming here this evening and
sharing with us. Creating some more excitement. We appreciate you working with our city staff
and of course like you mentioned police and fire and their hard work but wish you continued
success and luck with this ride. Like I said it’s extremely popular and it’s neat to have a regional
bike ride like this is so congratulations to you and thank you for coming tonight. We appreciate
it.
Tim Litfin: Appreciate all your comments and a big pat on the back to everyone here in
Chanhassen. Thank you.
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Mayor Ryan: Thank you. That was our scheduled visitor presentation. Are there any other
visitor presentations this evening? Okay we will move forward with there are no public hearings
tonight so we will start with new business.
CONSIDER A REQUEST FOR A VARIANCE FOR LOT COVER, LAKE SETBACK,
AND FRONT YARD SETBACK FOR PROPERTY LOCATED AT 3617 RED CEDAR
POINT.
Mayor Ryan: I would like to say before I pass this over to Mr. Walters and he begins, this
evening we’ll get a staff report from Mr. Walters. Provide an opportunity to ask questions of
staff. Invite the applicant forward to answer any questions or respond to any of the questions
that council had even for staff as well as just address the council. This is not a public hearing but
I would like to let the people that are in the chambers tonight as well as at home that are
watching with particular interest to this, we have received all of the emails and feedback that you
have sent to city staff. We have received the full verbatim Minutes for the Planning Commission
meeting so we had an opportunity to read through all of your comments and the additional
communication between residents and staff were included in the packet so we have been
provided with the many comments and emails provided by the residents. In particular the
neighbors to this residence. I just wanted to make sure that everybody was clear on the process
for this evening so with that I will turn it over to Mr. Walters.
MacKenzie Walters: Thank you Mayor Ryan. As mentioned this is planning case 2019-03. It is
an appeal of the case that went before the Planning Commission on May 21st. The applicant had
requested an 11 ½ foot front yard setback variance, 22.1 foot shoreland setback, a 9.5 percent lot
cover variance for the purpose of constructing a detached single family home. The Planning
Commission had approved the variance with one modification. And 8 ½ foot front yard setback.
The equivalent of instead of the requested 11 ½ foot one. A little bit of background on this case.
Some of you may remember this from last year. We received a variance request for this
property. That was Planning Case 2018-01. In that one the Planning Commission had voted to
grant an 11.5 foot front yard setback variance, 22.1 foot lakeshore setback variance and an 11
percent lot cover variance. That’s the same setbacks as was requested by this applicant and the
applicant had removed about 150 feet of lot cover. Just for some context. That approval was
appealed on January 8th. The appeal cited concerns about the length of the property’s driveway,
the amount of lot cover and the size of the proposed house. On February 12, 2018 the council
upheld the Planning Commission’s decision. However on February 12th of 2019 the variance
lapsed because no construction had taken place. I believe the buyer backed out and so the
property returned to the market and so a new variance was necessary. During the May 21st
Planning Commission meeting a public hearing was held. I know that you mentioned the
verbatim minutes and the emails having been read but I just want to highlight the concerns that
staff heard during that. The Planning Commission expressed concerns that the proposed
driveway length was too short and could establish a precedent for the neighborhood and the
Planning Commission was concerned that the 3 car garage may be oversized for the property.
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They discussed multiple driveway depths and felt that an average depth of 16 feet would provide
adequate parking. The Planning Commission noted that the use of pavers would reduce the
effect of impervious down to about 28 to 29 percent from the 34 to 35 percent. Sorry 34.5
percent requested. Four neighbors spoke and expressed concern over the driveway length and
requested that the Planning Commission require a minimum of 18 feet. One resident spoke and
expressed support for the variance as requested. At the end the applicant indicated a willingness
to increase the driveway length by 3 feet and that was the variance that was ultimately granted.
None of the Planning Commission, they voted 4-0 to approve the variance with the longer front
yard setback. May 27, 2019 staff received 2 appeals of the variance granted by the Planning
Commission. Just a note the City Council has the authority to reverse, affirm, modify wholly or
partly the appeal decision. A summary of the two appeals. The first appeal received was from
the applicant. The applicant essentially requested that they be granted the variance they had
initially requested rather than the one approved by the Planning Commission. They noted that
what they had requested was essentially the variance that had been approved last year and that
they had reduced the lot cover from the previously approved variance as well as…to grant the
City an easement for roadway. They feel the proposed driveway can accommodate two vehicles
and that total parking rather than driveway parking should be the standard. They also point out
that they have no exterior storage outside of the garage. The neighbors, we also received an
appeal from the neighbor. They expressed concern that the proposal does not provide adequate
guest parking. I’m sorry that is quest parking oh dear. Guest parking and believe that a
minimum of two cars should be accommodated by the driveway. They believe the potential for
cars to overhang the street creates dangerous situations and that a minimum 18 foot depth is
needed. They expressed concern about a precedent for the neighborhood. They would also
express concern about the phrasing of the condition on the variance regarding the use of pervious
pavers. Staff has reworded that to address the concern. It was never staff’s intent for that to be
an optional condition so that has been changed.
Mayor Ryan: On the patio and the driveway.
MacKenzie Walters: Yes.
Mayor Ryan: Okay.
MacKenzie Walters: Yes. So a little bit of background on the location and the variance. The
property is located at 3617 Red Cedar Point Road. It’s zoned residential single family. The
zoning standards for that area require a 20,000 square foot minimum lot size, limit their
properties to 25 percent lot cover, have a 30 foot front yard setback, 10 foot side yard setback, 75
foot shoreland setback and allow for up to a 250 square foot water oriented accessory structure.
The site as it is is a substandard lot. It’s 9,203 square feet so a little less than half the size that
would normally be required for the district. The lot currently has a lot coverage of 36.36 percent.
It meets the required 30 foot front yard setback. The 10 foot east side setback is also met.
However there is an out building that is a shed that’s about 4 feet from the side yard over here
that the applicant’s proposing to remove. It is 52.9 feet from the lake so that’s a non-conforming
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lakeshore setback and it has an existing 114 square foot water oriented structure that’s 24 feet
from the lake. I should note the property’s a little atypical in that a portion of Red Cedar Point
Road is actually located within the lot lines. As…policy the 562 square feet covered by Red
Cedar Point Road is not included in either the lot coverage area or the lot area totals that we’ll be
discussing tonight. So the applicant is proposing to remove the existing house as well as a large
gravel driveway that extends about 30 feet into the property. They’re proposing to construct a
new home shown here in green with a 3 car garage, driveway and then the patio that serves the
property’s water oriented accessory structure so they wouldn’t be allowed to build anything
closer to the lake than that patio. Their justification cited is the substandard nature of the lot.
The fact that it is not possible to construct a new home within city code on the parcel. They will
be replacing a deteriorating structure. They will be removing a non-conforming gravel drive and
putting vegetation in the front yard. They’ll be reducing the lot cover by 184 square feet from
it’s existing so it’s about a 1.9 percent reduction and they’ll be bringing the side yard setback
into compliance with city code. They believe their request is consistent with other variances
granted in the neighborhood. So we have as mentioned received numerous comments from
neighbors. We’ve been contacted by I believe 7 neighbors to date. 6 have expressed concerns.
One has expressed support for the variance as requested. The concerns and focus have really
been on whether or not the, on their belief that the proposal does not provide off street parking
for guests and will exacerbate the existing parking issues and safety concerns due to road width.
There have also been concerns expressed that the house overbuilt and maximized and there is
concern with the amount of impervious surface being proposed. The one supportive resident felt
that the proposal is a marked improvement on the existing and they feel parking is in line with
the general pattern of the neighborhood and note that people in the area work together to deal
with the parking situation. Regarding parking staff did survey using Google Maps as well as
data we have from our aerial photos. As a note the city code does not have a minimum driveway
length stipulated. However for residential single family the 30 foot setback effectively would
create a 30 foot drive which depending on length of right-of-way would accommodate between 4
to 6 cars considering the 2 car garage is an ordinance minimum so between 4 to 6 spots would
generally be provided under city code. Looking at the houses in the immediate neighborhood
staff calculated 77 spaces from 17 properties so then average of 4 ½ spaces are provided per
property. The proposal staff…provides 4 off street spaces, 3 of which are in the garage. One
would be in the driveway. The 3 foot increased driveway length approved by the Planning
Commission would allow the driveway to more comfortably accommodate an average sized
vehicle. For the purposes of discussion staff estimates the average size of a vehicle at 16 feet.
So engineering staff did some work on the driveway and look at it as it was proposed. The
driveway requested by the applicant would have been 11 ½ feet at it’s shortest. 14 ½ feet at it’s
longest. It was felt that by increasing it by 3 feet with the average length of 16 feet would be
achieved in the middle which would allow for the perpendicular parking of an average sized car.
Even with the additional 3 feet staff recognizes that you know a contractor’s truck, full sized
truck would not be able to park perpendicularly on the lot. This is just for some context a street
view of Red Cedar Point Road. The house in yellow is the property in question and you can see
it’s being used in this shot to park a trailer and a boat in front of the home. There was also
concern expressed by the neighbors during the initial variance request as well as the second
Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2019
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round regarding the ability of snowplows to effectively remove snow from the area. Apparently
historically the home is in dis-use so the front yard was used as a turnaround and snow storage
area for the snowplows. Public works has looked it over and they are confident they can
effectively plow the area without utilizing the subject properties. They do believe they would
need to remove a large cottonwood tree that’s currently located in the public right-of-way here
but they believe they can conduct a turn and successfully plow the area. There’s also been some
discussions as to the buffering requirement that was placed on this variance. Without going too
much out of my depth the Water Resources Coordinator put together an explanation of why this
condition is being placed on this property. Essentially there are new rules that have been put out
by the DNR recently that recommend 30 foot minimum buffer. 30 foot buffers be established
along lake front properties. When people apply for variances with a 10 foot minimum width and
so staff is recommending a 20 foot buffer be put in place between the property and the lake to
help reduce the impact of the impervious surface. An example of what that would look like is
this is where the buffer would need to be located on the property. This represents a 20 foot wide
buffer. They would be allowed to have a 4 foot wide gap to facilitate walkway and access to the
lake. This is the current situation in the rear yard and then these are some conceptual shots of
what a buffer could be with the vegetation that can help slow and infiltrate the water. Staff’s
assessment looking over the variance is the applicant should be required to install a buffer to help
offset the large amount of impervious surface being retained. Staff feels the utilization of
permeable pavers should also be used to address the water quality issues and that the shoreland
restoration project of which the buffer would be the main component should also be used to
mitigate the impact of the requested setback and lot cover. Staff believes that the variance is
consistent with those granted to surrounding properties as well as the existing non-conformities
within the neighborhood. Staff is also concerned about parking and acknowledges that the
driveway length is short but feels that the variances does provide for a total of 4 off street
parking spaces which is consistent with the neighborhood. For these reasons staff is
recommending the City Council uphold the Planning Commission’s granted variance. I’d be
happy to take any questions at this time.
Mayor Ryan: Thank you Mr. Walters. Council any questions of staff at this time?
Councilman McDonald: I have a question.
Mayor Ryan: Councilman McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: In reading through this, I remember when this came through over a year
ago and we talked about the things at that point. I was concerned then about the parking out
front and just adding the 11 feet that we’re looking at, what does that exactly buy because I mean
that area is notorious as far as having problems whenever you have company over and especially
down at that end of Red Cedar, I mean have we really solved any problem or have we just
created a bigger problem?
Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2019
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MacKenzie Walters: I don’t believe this proposal solves any of the problems. I don’t
necessarily know that it’d be possible given the lot cover and setback constraints to design a
house that you know could absorb excess parking in the area. I think it represents something of a
neutral, neutral situation where it provides adequate parking for the family that you have at the
house and likely one guest.
Councilman McDonald: Yeah I had, I was going to wonder why we couldn’t just push the house
back but I think you did address that because of the buffer to the lake so there really is no room
to do anything. Sounds like you’ve moved it around as much as you can on the lot. The only
other place to start taking the land and everything would be to reduce the size of the house and
I’m sure the owners don’t want to do that. So I’m a little perplexed. It looks like no matter
what we do we’re going to create a big problem so okay. Thank you.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: I need you to review with me again 4 parking spots that you’ve
identified.
MacKenzie Walters: Yep so 3 of these parking spots would be in the garage.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Okay.
MacKenzie Walters: And then the fourth would be if you’re talking an average sized car with
the Planning Commission’s granted variance, I’m actually…you would add 3 feet onto this so
you’d have a 17 ½ foot on your longer leg and then you know going out to about 14 feet here
you’d be 16 feet deep so that would allow one car, again assuming an average length car, to park
you know traditionally straight up nose to the garage. If not the car would, if the car was longer
you would have to come in you know and park basically parallel to the front of the garage you
know to not hang into the street or cause any situation like that. If depending on the size of the
car the applicant might be able to get a second car into the garage with the extra, I mean into the
driveway with the extra 3 feet for a 5 but it would require a lot of coordination.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Can you go back to a street view?
MacKenzie Walters: The Red Cedar Point view? Yes.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Yes that. That’s a really narrow street.
MacKenzie Walters: Yes it is.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: So what happens now when there’s a graduation party or there is
something going on, where do people park?
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MacKenzie Walters: I believe folks, I don’t believe any parking is possible on the street. I think
it tends to get pushed to the streets to the west or they make arrangements to share parking
between neighbors. I couldn’t speak to that authoritatively though.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: But we don’t have anything posted saying no parking?
MacKenzie Walters: I don’t believe we do.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: And is that something that is possible to just post no parking on that
street?
Todd Gerhardt: Another option is to shuttle people. Make arrangements with somebody that has
you know, maybe the Lutheran church down the road. Arrangements with them and have a bus
shuttle people.
Mayor Ryan: Okay thank you. Councilman Campion.
Councilman Campion: No questions or comments.
Mayor Ryan: I thought you had raised your hand, sorry. Any other questions at this time? Go
ahead.
Councilwoman Coleman: We received an email saying I think something a little contradictory
seeing that this actually would not fit the average length of cars. Being put, I believe they said
17 if we’re taking the average. Do you see this fitting 2 cars on average?
MacKenzie Walters: I think it can in theory the driveway could accommodate 2 cars in terms of
how people practically park. I see accommodating one average car. I believe the email you are
citing is the weighted average for cars doing like the top 20 most commonly sold by number of
vehicles sold. You know in terms of whether or not that’s a more valid message for determining
average with vehicle length than others I couldn’t comment on. I think that the extra 3 foot
driveway would accommodate a car that’s a little bit above average but again leaving space
between the front of the garage and the bumper of the car certainly if you get above average
there’s a risk it would hang out into the street.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: I would imagine that you know especially when you’ve had a winter
like we’ve had where there’s a lot of snow, even if the snowplow comes through that road has to
get even more narrow as the season progresses. So I mean I would think that it would be just a
hard street to maneuver in general for anybody. So I can definitely understand everyone’s
concern when it comes to parking and especially on the street.
Mayor Ryan: Councilwoman Coleman did you have any further questions?
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Councilwoman Coleman: No thank you.
Mayor Ryan: I have a few questions Mr. Walters. I’ll come back to the driveway piece of it and
some that I have to do, I know you clarify the part about the permeable pavers are part of the
conditions to have both on the patio and the driveway. Another thing had to do with, and it’s
spoken to in the report but just to reiterate, the conditions, I think they’re 13, 14 and 15. If you
could just speak to the vegetated buffer. The shoreland restoration plan. As conditioned those
have to be, those plans have to be submitted and approved prior to correct?
MacKenzie Walters: The applicant would need to submit an engineered design for the, sorry not
engineered but landscape design for the buffer and any shoreline process and Water Resources
Coordinator Clark would review those and they would require her approval in order to meet the
condition of the variance.
Mayor Ryan: Okay. And is that something that we’ve, is that a requirement common in the
neighborhood?
MacKenzie Walters: In this neighborhood no. As I mentioned the vegetative buffer is a new
requirement.
Mayor Ryan: Oh okay.
MacKenzie Walters: It’s something that I can’t speak to exactly when they began putting that as
a thing to consider for variances but I believe that comes from the DNR front. The MN Statute
462.357 and the local water management plan that we just adopted. That’s where that new
standard comes from. Apologies.
Mayor Ryan: Okay and that’s the standard now from today going forward so I’m trying to kind
of lay the groundwork that while I know addressing this, you know this house today it’s kind of
setting precedent for what’s to happen in other developments going forward in this
neighborhood. And then when you did the total for impervious surface are the total calculations
for the permeable pavers included in the overall lot coverage?
MacKenzie Walters: So the lot coverage variance that the Planning Commission granted
included the permeable pavers as well as the traditional impervious surfaces. Because the
property’s in the shoreland overlay district we don’t differentiate between the two.
Mayor Ryan: Okay.
MacKenzie Walters: Because it’s a variance we are requiring the use and we acknowledge it
plays a role in you know reducing the impact.
Mayor Ryan: Okay.
Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2019
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MacKenzie Walters: If you took out the permeable pavers I think the lot coverage drops to 28
point some odd percent.
Mayor Ryan: Okay. Okay I just wanted to clarify that number. And then you mentioned about
obviously the public works has been involved in reviewing snow removal and what not and you
mentioned about cutting down the tree. The cottonwood. Who’s responsible for cutting it
down? Is there any replacement plan? I know they’re required to plant one tree in their front
yard but what, you know what is that process?
MacKenzie Walters: I’ll defer to the Public Works Director.
Mayor Ryan: Okay.
Jason Wedel: Mayor, members of the council. The removal of that tree would be done by public
works so whether or not we would do it ourselves with in-house staff or contract it with our tree
service, that responsibility would be our’s. There is not a plan right now to replace it because it
is a tree that’s within our right-of-way in an area that was meant for truck turning movements.
There’s not really a required replacement for that tree as such.
Mayor Ryan: Okay so better to not have it there?
Jason Wedel: Correct.
Mayor Ryan: Okay. But no snow will be piled up there?
Jason Wedel: The snow will be equally distributed across all the properties throughout the
circle.
Mayor Ryan: Goodie. Alright and then the last one does have to do with the length of the
driveway. What the Planning Commission approved was a 16 foot length at the largest part of
the driveway?
MacKenzie Walters: The Planning Commission’s, I’m going to go back to that slide because I
think illustrates it the best. So the Planning Commission by increasing the front yard setback by
3 feet would, this middle portion here would increase to 16 feet. So this one would have been 17
1/2. This one 14 ½ or so. At the shortest length.
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, council. A typical parking lot stall is 9 feet wide, 18 feet long.
Mayor Ryan: And so when you had your off street parking slide and you mentioned the number
of parking, right there. Parking spaces you are including both inside the garage and outside of
the garage.
Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2019
13
MacKenzie Walters: Yes I am.
Mayor Ryan: And most of the, maybe you know this or you can guess it, most of the driveway’s
accommodate 2 cars in their driveway or would it be a wide range of 1 to 6?
MacKenzie Walters: It varies. As you mentioned in the emails the properties with variances
granted the driveways have typically accommodated 2 cars. One exception would be this house
to the east here where a condition of the variance was because of the shortness of the driveway
they had to provide 2 parking spots up here to accommodate you know some extra parking. The
non-conforming properties are less so.
Mayor Ryan: Okay. And so if it moves forward with you know with 16 foot depth are the plans,
do the plans as submitted have to be changed?
MacKenzie Walters: I would let the applicant address the extent of revisions that would be
needed. I believe it would require a redrafting of the garage area.
Mayor Ryan: Okay. Okay I’ll save my questions for the applicant. And we don’t know the
dimensions of the garage either.
MacKenzie Walters: Again I would defer to the applicant.
Mayor Ryan: Okay perfect. Alright those are my questions. Thank you Mr. Walters. Council
any other questions? Alright if not I would ask the applicant to come forward please and state
your name and we know your address but if you could state your address as well that would be
great please.
Kristine Kingsbury: Hello, my name’s Kristen Kingsbury, I’m actually an attorney. I’m so
excited to meet you Roger Knutson. I grew up under Jerry Duffy so I’ve heard about you. So
Mayor, council, so pleased to be here with you today. I’m representing Pam Reimer with her
application and we understand the recommendations of the Planning Commission and the
proposal for the motion by the City Council. We are, as far as the driveway goes we understand
that, that would be great if I could have that little diagram up there could I?
MacKenzie Walters: This one?
Kristine Kingsbury: The one with the nice driveway. What we are interested in proposing is
kind of a mix of the two. We’re wondering if we can’t do an 11.5 for where the single car
garage is and an 8.5 for the double car and so the reason why we think that’s helpful is it creates
greater length along the single car garage which allows for more parking. Now this is an 3
inside, one outside so that does give us the 4 spots. But having that extra length might be
helpful. In terms of the outhouse, we’re so excited to be able to remove that and to create a
Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2019
14
better neighborhood feel. Taking care of this property and kind of cleaning it up and we’re
excited to cooperate with the City in creating a prescriptive easement so that we’ve got a little bit
of extra road cover for the city and in terms of the buffer we’re excited to be the guinea pig with
the buffer. We would like to go back to what the Planning Commission suggested with the 10
feet. I understand that the City Council’s looking at 20 feet today and we’re just excited for this
new project. We’re excited to get going. We have had quite a bit of expense because we’ve
done our plans over a couple times. We’re got $70,000 expense for some of the special fittings
that are needed for this property and then we’ve had to redraw our plans a couple times $5,000 I
think each time. So we’d like to hear what the City has to say. I’d like to just make sure I
haven’t missed anything. And that is I guess our presentation and our request that you grant the
variance today.
Mayor Ryan: With the changes you just requested?
Kristen Kingsbury: I’d like you to consider it yes.
Mayor Ryan: Okay.
Kate Aanenson: I’m not sure we understand.
Mayor Ryan: No I don’t know that’s why I was going to ask if somebody draw that I guess. It
just seemed to get shorter.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah.
MacKenzie Walters: So if I correctly, okay.
Kate Aanenson: Do you have the zoning ordinance?
Kristen Kingsbury: Yes that’s actually what I would like. Paul could you come up and assess?
Paul Wagner: You bet.
Mayor Ryan: Welcome, if you could just state your name and address as well please.
Paul Wagner: You bet I’m Paul Wagner from way down south in …Minnesota. 3200 57th Street
West.
Mayor Ryan: Great thank you.
Paul Wagner: …one comment out of the gate here, this reads from Helen Gunther and she
thought that there should be an appeal.
Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2019
15
Mayor Ryan: Sir.
Paul Wagner: It says here because it was misinformed that evening that the garage was 26 foot
deep.
Mayor Ryan: I know but we’re not holding a public hearing so we want to answer.
Kate Aanenson: …the garage is what they wanted.
Paul Wagner: The garage is only 24 feet deep.
Mayor Ryan: Okay. If you could just draw on the.
Kate Aanenson: We’re just trying to determine if the driveway gets bigger or shorter.
Mayor Ryan: Right.
Paul Wagner: …ready with a pen. It’s just this third stall right here.
Todd Gerhardt: So you’re recessing it?
Paul Wagner: We could step it back 2 feet and still have enough flush garage.
Todd Gerhardt: So it’s a recessed single and then double…
Paul Wagner: Well just give more depth to that person to be able to not have their bumper stick
out. But the garage is not 26 foot deep, it’s 24. And the survey reflects that.
Kate Aanenson: Okay. That was the question correct?
Mayor Ryan: Go ahead Ms. Aanenson.
Todd Gerhardt: It has two 8 to your 16?
MacKenzie Walters: Yeah I guess one thing I’m a little confused on and I apologize I would like
clarification. Is that recessed in addition to the 3 feet that the Planning Commission gave or
requested in lieu of?
Paul Wagner: No. It would not be an addition to that because then you’d be getting a graduate,
wouldn’t even be able to park a boat in.
MacKenzie Walters: So then this section of the driveway would stay at 13 feet. This section at
11 ½ and this.
Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2019
16
Mayor Ryan: It’s just it’s easier for us to see where you’re changing the numbers please.
Paul Wagner: So does that show up there by my pencil? So what we’re just saying is that we
step the third stall back 2 feet. We create depth for a vehicle because right now a vehicle can
pull in there horizontally but it’s user friendly to turn out and leave the neighborhood so this way
we’d accommodate pretty much a full sized vehicle to be off the street and you could still have
another street, another vehicle shorter ones in front of the area if not at horizontal. Parallel with
the street. Keep in mind the drive is 30 foot wide.
Mayor Ryan: So what are the lengths if you go from left to right or right to left, however they
want to do it, what are we looking at with the length of driveway? You have one, where you
added the 2 feet what is the length of that driveway now?
Paul Wagner: Well there again that’s another conflict is that, on Pam’s property which is
currently 3 foot of road right-of-way because right now if we leave the bones off…and stick a
car in front and have her sticking out it would still be sticking out onto Pam’s property. Because
the road is on Pam’s property.
Mayor Ryan: Right I understand that but the request for the variance is the 16 feet from curb to
the front of the house and so I’m trying to, I mean I know that over the course of the Planning
Commission there’s been a lot of different numbers but the concern expressed from the Planning
Commission as well as I think members of council tonight is what is the length of the driveway
when we’re talking from curb to the garage door? Here we’re trying to get a sense of how many
cars can be parked there? Are the cars going to be parked fully on the driveway or are they
going to be hanging off into the street because from the picture of this street there’s no.
Paul Wagner: I can’t speak on who would ever be parking there other than my guys while
they’re working under construction. I mean I don’t know who Pam’s guests would ever be or
who would be over there to visit. What I can tell you after visiting the neighborhood on several
occasions that people even from the other neighborhoods park on that street. That’s just what
they do there. It’s a tough situation for everybody. Why do you think everybody just is used to
that situation and they drive slow and go around things because people park, I mean there’s
landscapers parking out on the street.
Mayor Ryan: Right and I understand your point. What we’re trying to determine so we can
make a decision in terms of a proposal before us, what is that appropriate length of driveway and
that’s what I’m trying to get an understanding. Not,
Paul Wagner: Everybody’s got a different opinion on that and because of different length
vehicles.
Mayor Ryan: But what is?
Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2019
17
Paul Wagner: 21 feet. The average vehicle is 15 so.
Kate Aanenson: If I may, if we could just move past this. I think what your question was is,
what were they willing to do. What I heard them say is they didn’t want to change the driveway
length but they are willing to, they wanted to go back to the original request but they were going
to reduce the garage by 3 feet so we’re still at, the driveway at.
MacKenzie Walters: My understanding is that there’s a, with a 2 foot recess the longest portion
of the driveway would be 16 ½ feet, is that correct?
Paul Wagner: Correct.
MacKenzie Walters: Which is.
Councilman McDonald: Could that be a driveway drawing, the one we’ve got where we’ve got
the distances. Okay where’s the 2 feet on that? Push down driveway to 16.6. Does that make
that 16.6 now?
Todd Gerhardt: And how wide? You’re going to go 2 feet in but how wide is the drive?
Paul Wagner: Typically at a bump out with a 9 foot garage door you have, with the way you
have to do anything with a header it would have to be a 10 feet. To accommodate a 9 foot wide
door.
Todd Gerhardt: So it’s 2 feet deeper in, 9 feet wide.
Paul Wagner: Correct.
Mayor Ryan: But then you went down on the other two dimensions you went from 13 to 11 ½
and then 11 and 11.6 down to 8 1/2.
Paul Wagner: Correct. Which would accommodate a vehicle if they needed to park that way
parallel with the street because on a 30 foot garage, if I use 10 feet and jog that back 2 I still have
20 foot of driveway where you can park horizontal or at an angle. But I can’t be the one that
says how people are going to park there.
Mayor Ryan: Right nor am I asking to. Council any further questions for the applicant or the
builder?
Councilman McDonald: At this point I’m confused. Are you in favor of the variance where you
still want the 3 feet or are you saying that in lieu of that with this bump out you don’t need the 3
feet?
Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2019
18
Paul Wagner: I would like my customer to leave things at the way they were under the approved
variance that was once approved but to accommodate the concern about getting at least the one
extra vehicle which would make it, the average the fourth car if need be that could completely
get off the street by taking 2 foot left out of her garage.
Councilman McDonald: Okay. So we stay at 14.6. You’re going to bump it down to, so that
gives you 16.6 so that will accommodate the fourth vehicle and then all these other dimensions
would stay so it would be 13 feet at the middle. 11.6 at the far end.
Paul Wagner: Correct.
Councilman McDonald: Okay. So that says we don’t need the variance.
Kate Aanenson: No. They still need a variance. You’re not supporting what the Planning
Commission advanced forward.
Paul Wagner: We still need the original variance.
Kate Aanenson: The original request.
Paul Wagner: Lot coverage and hard coverage and we stayed within that boundaries. In fact
we’re under what was already approved.
Councilman McDonald: Okay but those variances are different. I’m just talking about the 3
feet. I need to understand where that fits within all this because that’s what I thought the big
argument was over was that variance. So somebody clarify it for me where are we at. I mean I
understand the other variances and fine with all of those. I just wonder where we at with the
driveway?
MacKenzie Walters: What the applicant is currently proposing now would be less driveway
length than what the Planning Commission approved on May 21st.
Councilman McDonald: Okay.
Mayor Ryan: Because for clarification again I’m feeling the same way. The original variance
after it got approved last year and then it passed, the timing passed. Came back to the meeting in
May and the Planning Commission was not comfortable with what was being proposed and
expressed that they wouldn’t be able to support what was proposed and through the discussion
you came, the applicant came forward at the, I think they re-opened the public hearing and came
back. Came forward again and said we’d be willing to give the 3 feet, correct?
MacKenzie Walters: Correct and so then the entire garage would have moved back 3 feet.
Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2019
19
Mayor Ryan: Would have moved back and then the longest part of the driveway, at it’s longest
point from curb to garage door was going to be.
MacKenzie Walters: 17 1/2.
Mayor Ryan: 17 ½.
MacKenzie Walters: Yep with the variance that was approved by the Planning Commission on
the 21st.
Mayor Ryan: Correct. So now here we are and, and now you’re requesting you don’t want the 3
feet that you had offered at the last meeting. Instead for a portion of it you would increase it 2
feet.
Pam Reimer: I’m Pam Reimer and I need clarification. The garage is too.
Mayor Ryan: Excuse me, could you just.
Paul Wagner: It was because at that meeting, and I’m the one that made the mistake. I didn’t
have anything in front of me. Somebody said what is the depth of the garage. I said at least 26
feet so if you give up 3 feet off of 26 you still have a 23 foot depth garage which is still pretty
respectable. But when it’s only 24 and you give up 3 you’re down to 21 and that’s respectable
especially if you want to keep a boat or anything else in the, and you park your vehicle and walk
around it with groceries. So that’s where the defense came.
Mayor Ryan: And do we have these plans? I mean do we?
MacKenzie Walters: We have not received the interior floorplan for this…
Mayor Ryan: Not even for the garage.
MacKenzie Walters: Nothing.
Mayor Ryan: Okay.
Pam Reimer: So clarify yeah the garage is 24 feet and one of the people who appealed said oh
she can’t get even a boat in there. Why are we taking away garage space so.
Councilman McDonald: Okay but yeah you could get a boat in there because you’ve got the two
other bays that will be deep enough if you want to put a boat in there.
Paul Wagner: That’s exactly right.
Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2019
20
Pam Reimer: So I guess given the depth of the garage we did switch from 3 feet to 2 feet.
That’s what he’s asking for. But therefore you get the fourth parking spot which is what the
whole issue is.
Councilman McDonald: Okay so I think I understand what you’re getting at.
Paul Wagner: It is, it is a foot in the plan and this is the garage so. It’d be 10 feet by 2 feet.
Mayor Ryan: Go ahead Councilman Campion.
Councilman Campion: Instead of moving the 2 feet there if you did 3 feet in that spot to
accommodate to the 17 ½ feet for the parking space, that still allows the full depth for the
remaining 2 stalls with room to get a boat in as you’re saying.
Paul Wagner: That was correct.
Councilman Campion: I’m just counting, you know asking to counter to you if instead of 2 feet
bump out like you’re talking about if you did 3 feet you’d still accomplish what the Planning
Commission was requesting in the sense of…
Pam Reimer: ...I’m a single person. My kids have a Mini Cooper 12 foot and Prius 4.4 feet and
they live in Portland up by Nike and, up north. If they come to visit me they’ll all fit but yes to
answer your question I would do a single car garage. My brother who doesn’t want to but
he…so if you’re asking for 2 feet but I did the 3 feet to get everybody else who was looking at
this take away the driveway but a shorter garage and yeah amen, I’ll do it.
Mayor Ryan: And then the rest of the driveway, this is where I’m still.
Pam Reimer: We’ll stay…away from.
Mayor Ryan: What was approved by council last year?
MacKenzie Walters: The dimensions would be the same yep. It’d be 13 foot and the 11 ½
which is what was approved with the Variance Case 18-01.
Pam Reimer: Yep and it expired in February of 2018 but a month before that in January, as
MacKenzie…I showed intention of building and it lapsed because my dad had a heart attack and
I didn’t get the drawing in on time and they…so I applied within one month… I’m a smaller
person and a single lady, I got a smaller house. Less hard cover. I’m doing everything…four
times and MacKenzie says yep you’re good. Pulled out the survey and yep you’re good so.
Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2019
21
Paul Wagner: So at the last meeting I screwed up and I made it sound like it was a 26 foot deep
garage and I didn’t get to finish so when Helen wrote this she assumed that it was a 26 foot
garage and I would have to agree it did not need to be 23 but it’s 24 and I made a mistake.
That’s what the plan is and that’s what this survey reflects. I said 26.
Mayor Ryan: Okay thank you. Council any further questions before we turn it back for further
questions of staff? Okay thank you.
Pam Reimer: I just want to get it done. That’s why I hired them. They’re a good team.
Mayor Ryan: Alright thank you.
Pam Reimer: He’s a horticulturist and a fireman to make sure parking and everything else and
trees.
Mayor Ryan: Alright thank you. Council any further questions, clarification, concerns?
Councilman McDonald: So it looks as though we’re looking at a different thing than what was
initially brought before us and I guess I would like to see that in paper. I understand about all of
the other variances and fine with all of those but I would like to get this driveway thing written
down as to what it is. I think I’m okay with it but I want to see it committed to paper.
Mayor Ryan: So for moving forward, are you asking for new dimensions or?
Councilman McDonald: Yeah I’d like to see the same kind of presentation instead of well we’re
going to do something here. We’re going to do something there. Let’s show us what are you
going to do and that’s going to require, I don’t want to say new plans but it’s going to require at
least a new drawing. A new concept of what we’re talking about. I like the one that you had
with okay this is the old house. This is the new house. I think these are all the different zones.
How do we affect that drawing? It’s as simple as that and then I can know what I’m voting on.
Mayor Ryan: Right. So how does that.
Todd Gerhardt: You can table this item. Bring it back with the modifications as suggested and
of the 3 feet. Don’t ask me where the 3 feet’s going because I’m a little confused on that but we
can bring that drawing back and just show that and put it on a consent agenda to show you
exactly where the 3 feet is, if that’s the only concern.
Paul Wagner: …the application, the plan has to be redone.
Mayor Ryan: Sir.
Paul Wagner: That 3 feet and a new survey. We have those documents.
Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2019
22
Mayor Ryan: Sir. Okay.
Todd Gerhardt: Not until you get the variance.
Mayor Ryan: Excuse me please.
Kate Aanenson: Roger just for the...to show 60 days because we’ve gone on, the 60 days ending
June 18th so.
Roger Knutson: So you can just take the extra.
Kate Aanenson: Take the extra 60.
Roger Knutson: Take an extra 60 days.
Kate Aanenson: Okay just for clarification.
Mayor Ryan: And I think here’s the challenge because as we prepare for our meetings, and I
know this has been a lengthy process for the applicant but here’s the challenge that we face as a
council. So not only are we looking at this but we also are setting precedent for future plans to
come forward but specifically to this, specifically to this when we are presented the information
by the Planning Commission. By staff. We are reviewing that information and that’s what we’re
making our decision on and so when you come forward with different numbers and different
plans and different drawings we need official approval vetting from our city staff. Excuse me.
Pam Reimer: He said there would be an ability to do it.
Mayor Ryan: Okay and I understand but a council member has made the request for, in order for
him and I don’t know how the rest of council feels but by the nods the rest of council is
interested in getting some firm plans in order to be able to support or deny this variance and right
now with drawings up on a, you know on the screen and it might be 26 and it might be 24, that
leaves a lot of wiggle room for us and we don’t want to make a concrete decision when we don’t
have something that has been discussed by staff and put forward. I mean that is just the process
that we have to follow so while frustrating I’m sure because you want to move this forward, you
know I know you have been in touch with city staff and they will continue to work through this
process, I think Ms. Aanenson said or Mr. Gerhardt said it’s something that we’d put on the
consent agenda which would move it forward you know unless somebody pulled it off. If the
staff recommends what you’re proposing.
Todd Gerhardt: And the next meeting is June 24th so it’s 2 weeks out and the way I understand it
what the applicant is proposing is instead of a 2 foot recess single car garage they’re proposing a
Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2019
23
3 foot recessed single car garage and the other one stays at it’s current location. Just as long as
everybody kind of understands that that line isn’t moving.
Mayor Ryan: Right.
Councilman McDonald: Right but at that point the 3 foot variance that the Planning
Commission gave goes away.
Todd Gerhardt: Right.
Mayor Ryan: Right.
Councilman McDonald: Okay.
Todd Gerhardt: But you do have an extra foot of depth where the single car garage is and can
you bring up your map that shows the driveways?
MacKenzie Walters: This one?
Todd Gerhardt: Then it turns into 17.6.
Kate Aanenson: We just want to make sure all the numbers tie because we haven’t seen the
floorplan so we just want to make sure it all ties back.
Todd Gerhardt: Yeah just conceptually that’s what I’m envisioning. I didn’t want anybody to
think that the 3 foot was going all along the 28 foot.
Councilman McDonald: Well and my point in asking for something hard and fast is as the
mayor said what I looked at to vote on is this based upon a variance and now we’re changing
things on the fly and I just don’t feel comfortable voting on something that I don’t have in front
of me. I agree it sounds okay and I’m sorry to put you through this but I can’t just vote on
something based upon we’ll do this. We’ll move that line here. I need something hard and fast
that everybody’s committed to so that’s why I asked for it.
Todd Gerhardt: No, and we can put it back on in 2 weeks so.
Mayor Ryan: And so then the motion is, if somebody wanted to make a motion to table it until
the 24th of June.
Councilman McDonald: I’ll make the motion to table this agenda item until the 24th.
Councilman Campion: Second.
Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2019
24
Mayor Ryan: We have a valid motion and a second.
Councilman McDonald moved, Councilman Campion seconded that the City Council table
Planning Case 19-03, request for variances for lot cover, lake setback and front yard
setback for property located at 3617 Red Cedar Point Road. All voted in favor and the
motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
Mayor Ryan: That motion carries 5-0.
APPROVE CONTRACT FOR DESIGN AND CONSTRUCTION OF THE POWERS
BOULEVARD/LAKE LUCY ROAD PEDESTRIAN IMPROVEMENTS.
Mayor Ryan: Jason.
Jason Wedel: Thank you Mayor, members of the council. So before you this evening is, for
your consideration is moving forward with the engineering and the design on the Powers
Boulevard/Lake Lucy Road pedestrian improvements. The proposed improvements were
reviewed last year. There was a study that was done that reviewed this intersection as well as a
section of Powers and Lake Drive. Or Park, excuse me and Park and the improvements at Park
were, some of those were completed last year but nothing had been done yet with Lake Lucy so
what had been proposed was what you see before you which was adding a center median as a
refuge for pedestrians. Putting in an advanced flasher system that would be pedestrian activated
that they could signal to cross the street and then some reconfiguration with the turn lanes and
the pedestrian ramps. So one of the renderings that had been presented last year was the, this
shows the before and after. Again this is the full length of the improvements. There is some
lengthening of the roadway because we are incorporating a left through way and a right turn lane
in each direction on Powers and then so when you add in that center median for the refuge for
pedestrian it does widen the overall width of the street through that corridor so there is some
additional grading and street widening that goes along with this project. So the cost estimates
that were prepared for this project are as such. We’ve got removals, construction, pedestrian
treatments, markings and signs and then miscellaneous gets into striping and gets into the natural
signal itself or that rapid flashing light and then engineering with a total project cost of $600,000.
The funding sources for this would be a cost share with the county per their policy. The cost
would be split 50/50. 50 percent city, 50 percent county. The City’s portion that was proposed
to be paid utilizing our state aid MSA funds. If this project were to move forward design would
begin here in July through October. We would bid out the project this fall. The trick with this
project is really the signal poles. The lead time on those signal poles for those pedestrian
crossings believe or not is 20 to 26 weeks so what we would propose to do is order those signal
poles this fall so that next spring when the rest of the construction takes place the poles would be
available and able to be installed. So what the City Council is being asked to consider this
evening is approval of the consultant contract with Bolton and Menk in the amount of $83,450
for the Powers Boulevard/Lake Lucy pedestrian improvements. They were the consulting firm
Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2019
25
that did all the original study for this corridor so they had all the existing information so they
were the logical firm to negotiate and work through a contract for doing the engineering.
Mayor Ryan: Perfect.
Jason Wedel: So with that I’ll take any questions.
Mayor Ryan: Great thank you. Council any questions? I just have one question. Is there any,
with the widening of the road, I can’t recall, was there any right-of-way or nothing on the west
side? I was thinking the northwest corner.
Jason Wedel: I might have a drawing. There’s, sorry.
Mayor Ryan: That’s okay.
Jason Wedel: So if you look on this drawing, this is north is towards the top of the page. This is
Powers. There’s a little, a diagonal green line that you can see that corner there. Everything
within that corner it would be a temporary grading easement because that work would take place
outside of the right-of-way so we would need to obtain a temporary easement from that
landowner for impacts but it would not be permanent right-of-way.
Mayor Ryan: And does that have anything to do with the tree cutting going on there right now?
No.
Jason Wedel: No. It has to do more with just the grading and the widening of the road when you
widen it out and then you have to match the slopes back onto the existing ground. It just got
pushed a little further out
Mayor Ryan: Okay and it’s just a temporary.
Jason Wedel: It’s temporary correct.
Mayor Ryan: Okay thank you.
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, council. The trees were removed and trimmed back just because after
every wind storm there would be branches laying on the road so they cleared back to the middle
of their right-of-way to make sure that there was no damage to cars as they traveled up and down
after a wind storm.
Mayor Ryan: Oh, thank you for that clarification. Alright council any other questions or action?
Councilman Campion: I will make a motion.
Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2019
26
Mayor Ryan: Yes.
Councilman Campion: The City Council approves a consultant contract with Bolton and Menk
in the amount of $83,450 for the Powers Boulevard/Lake Lucy Road pedestrian improvements
Project Number PW031A.
Mayor Ryan: Thank you Councilman Campion. We have a valid motion. Is there a second?
Councilwoman Coleman: Second.
Mayor Ryan: With a valid motion and a second.
Councilman Campion moved, Councilwoman Coleman seconded that the Chanhassen City
Council approves a consultant contract with Bolton and Menk in the amount of $83,450 for
the Powers Boulevard/Lake Lucy Road pedestrian improvements Project Number
PW031A. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
AMEND CHAPTER 2, ADMINISTRATION, OF THE CHANHASSEN CITY CODE
ESTABLISHING AN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT COMMISSION.
Mayor Ryan: Mr. Sticha or Mr. Gerhardt?
Todd Gerhardt: Mr. Sticha.
Greg Sticha: Thank you Mayor and council. For the audience information I’m going to share
the history of this discussion over the past couple meetings. Prior to or during it’s goal setting
session for 2019 the City Council identified a KFS goal of potentially establishing an Economic
Development Commission similar to it’s other commissions that the City has here at the City of
Chanhassen. This May the City Council underwent two work sessions to begin some initial
discussion and creation of said commission. During that process a couple of initial items were
changed within the staff forwarded ordinance amending Chapter 2 of the City Code and before
you this evening is, includes all of the changes that were discussed at our previous work session
discussions in May. The changes that were made since the last meeting included the creation of
the commission with 5 appointed members. Two 3 year terms and three 2 year terms. Staggered
terms for each of those 5 seats with each of them expiring on March 31st. There was also some
language change on the conflict of interest that was submitted by Councilman McDonald. All
other changes were consistent with what has been discussed at our previous work sessions. The
proposed ordinance in front of you did not include, does not include. Does not include any
changes to Section D or C that was presented at the previous work session. There was not, I
believe there was not a consensus as to what those changes should be at that point in time so staff
left Sections D and C the same as our previous discussion at the work session but we did make
the changes based on the members of the commission and the appointment terms and the length
of terms. So therefore at this point staff has prepared an ordinance amending Chapter 2 of the
Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2019
27
City Code for the creation of a Economic Development Commission and would at this point take
any questions about what we have discussed to this point in time or any of the language that is
included in the ordinance in front of you for modification or potential vote.
Mayor Ryan: Thank you Mr. Sticha. Council any comments or questions?
Councilman McDonald: Madam Mayor.
Mayor Ryan: Councilman McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: Well first of all I think it’s a misnomer to say that this was approved at
the KFS meeting in December. It was not. It was brought by separate item in council a few
weeks after that so it was actually voted down as one of the KFS priorities. Just wanted to
clarify the record. Also I go through this and one of the biggest questions I have is again there’s
a conflict between creating this council and what staff currently does. How is that conflict going
to be resolved? Because again we’ve given this council the ability to go out make reviews.
They’re to do reports. These are all things that staff has done for council in the past. How is this
commission going to be able to fill that work? It would require a staff if you’re going to be
looking at reports and those things and I just don’t see how that’s granted in here. Also I still
have some problems about how this commission’s by-laws are formed. It seems to me that in
reading this you could read it both ways. That maybe they didn’t approve it or they need to redo
it and hand it to them. That’s not clear to me and I think that needs to be cleared up. And again I
have within the record all of my objections, especially to D and to E as to what I think the
problems with this are so I will leave that for anyone to look into the record but again I’ve not
heard an answer and I’m looking for one. What happens to the duties of staff? Are we going to
have two bodies doing the same work or what? I’d like an answer to that.
Mayor Ryan: Council members any other, any comments or responses? Go ahead
Councilwoman.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: I have to say too with disappointment we’re discussing this tonight
due to the fact that we did have an agreement when we did our rankings for our initiatives and
the rankings did not add up to have this commission exist and the rules got changed and so now
we’re talking about it tonight. One question I have is the process of how the City… businesses
and so maybe a staff member could talk about what happens now. I’m a perspective business. I
call the City and I say I’m wondering are there any spaces available for my company? Can
someone walk me through that process?
Greg Sticha: I think Mr. Gerhardt could probably address that question.
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor and council it’s, developing this commission is not going to change that.
It still will go through the community development group and Kate’s office and they’ll tell them
what the rules and regulations of the property. The zoning. The setbacks. Site coverage and
Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2019
28
depending on the use that’s being considered it may go to the EDA. I see the EDA as similar to
the property that we owned on West 79th Street where we had two potential buyers. They would
give review of those two proposals. Make a recommendation to the City Council for council’s
consideration based on each of the proposals being planned. Another thing that the EDA could
do is we would bring.
Councilman Campion: When you EDA you mean EDC right?
Todd Gerhardt: EDC, I’m sorry. Bad habit. And EDC similar to the Applebee’s
redevelopment. Work with the EDC on parking lot, grants. How to go about redeveloping that
site and then also to work with the EDC on the visionary process. Go through in detail prioritize
what the EDC would think is the top 10 priorities or top 5 priorities for the coming year. Present
that. Staff would present that to council at a work session for council adoption and
consideration. That’s how I envision the EDC operating on is looking at long term economic
development tools of redevelopment areas. Implementing of the downtown vision study and any
other projects that the council may see under their purview.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: So would an existing or a potential business that’s looking at
Chanhassen would they first come to staff and do that process and then would they go to the new
committee that’s being formed and get their approval and then would it come to council?
Todd Gerhardt: No anything that met the current zoning would follow the similar process of
going to the Planning Commission and then to the City Council. It’s, you know I heard the work
direction for the EDC is to develop and prioritize the many different steps that are in the
downtown vision study. You know work with redevelopment areas and I think we did talk about
a little bit about you know to try to approach businesses that are interested or that City Council
sees interested in the downtown area and where they could be located. That could be a task for
this group. Staff could propose some options to them and they could get feedback so that’s kind
of my vision of the EDC.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Then I had one more question.
Mayor Ryan: Sure.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: When you are looking at Section D, number 2 and the statement says
staff, will help staff promote the city, work to retain businesses in the community, attract
economic growth and development and advocate as well as be liaisons for all challenges that
face businesses in the city of Chanhassen. What does that really mean? I mean are they going to
have a budget? Are they going to be counsel businesses that are struggling? I mean I’m not
quite sure, that’s a big mouthful. It’s a big statement and I’m just wondering if I’m on that
committee what am I supposed to be doing or what would be some of my actions?
Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2019
29
Todd Gerhardt: Well the State has a retention program through the Department of Economic
Development to retain businesses in Minnesota. I’m trying to think you know some that moved
to South Dakota or Wisconsin and meet with those businesses to discuss you know what it would
take to keep them here. Probably a similar one was the decision by Emerson to move one of
their operations to Shakopee and staff sat down and met with the developer and to try to get their
vision of trying to keep them in Chanhassen and another facility but it really got down that this
plant was 40 percent of the revenue derived for Emerson Electric and they had fears of a tornado
coming through and taking out a business here. They wanted enough distance between the
current business and the location in Shakopee that they chose. To diversify their revenue flow if
one plant should be down they could replace that operation at another plant close by. So it
wasn’t a matter of Chanhassen not offering enough incentives or caring enough. It was a matter
of them diversifying their location. So the EDC could have been a part of that discussion and
some of them we don’t hear of. You know some just find an opportunity where they can buy a
building at a reasonable price like Construction Heaters I found out moved out of Chanhassen
and moved to Chaska and it was just an economic business decision that he made and that he felt
as though he couldn’t give up and so we’ve been working on trying to find a new tenant for that
building. Every brew taproom that came in here we mentioned that building. It had a beautiful
view with a patio that could look out over the wetland behind General Mills and it’s the right size
for a brew pub and we had a little concern regarding parking but you some of them enjoy being
in an industrial area and food trucks and, but some of those things the EDC could take a look at.
You know they work to for your pleasure. Whatever you wanted to see them research and take
under advisement, it’s really up to the council.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: And I appreciate your answers. A lot of your answers kind of lead
me to believe and I believe that I’m correct in what I’m saying that that, everything that you talk
about is already being done by staff and so the new charges and responsibilities as commission
it’s either redundant or already being done and so it is just my opinion that this is just another
new level of growth in government and that’s why I just can’t, I can’t, I can’t approve this or I
can’t vote for it because of that level. What is being done at staff internally now is being taken
care of and by adding another layer to it to me is just something that is not in my philosophy and
a correct thing to do.
Mayor Ryan: Thank you Councilwoman.
Councilman McDonald: Mayor could I respond or Mr. Campion wants to go first? Go ahead.
Mayor Ryan: Go ahead.
Councilman McDonald: Mr. Gerhardt I thank you for that answer but you make my point.
You’re already doing exactly what this commission is supposed to be doing. I could bring up
two other examples of businesses in this area that were going to leave or were going to come into
the area and with a couple phone calls that they managed to stay in the area so I don’t think we
need a commission that again is a volunteer commission. Where are they going to meet? This is
Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2019
30
a full time job trying to bring business into the community and that also meet the requirements of
the businesses that are currently here. Most the people on this commission they’ve got day jobs.
They’re not going to be here in the middle of the day to deal with these things and it just, it
doesn’t make sense because we now already have in place people doing this exact job. You’re
now telling me you’re going to insert another layer between me as a City Council member, staff
and a business that’s coming in before I get to weigh in. You mentioned the restaurant. That
should have come to council and it did. It doesn’t need to go through another layer of this
commission to decide whether or not the parking lot is going to be okay or not. Yeah that’s a
decision that should have come to council and it did. If we implement this those days are over
and council more or less sits back and we wait for people to bring us stuff and say well this is
what I recommend. That’s not what you got elected to to be on City Council. It’s to make the
hard decisions. This commission makes your job tougher. Not easier. I can’t support this either
and I definitely will vote against it and I will say again that I’m not happy with the way this
wound up on the agenda to begin with because it did get defeated as a priority back in January so
no I cannot support this and I see this as being nothing but problematic for city councils in the
future.
Mayor Ryan: Thank you.
Councilman Campion: I’d like to make a brief comment and then make a motion. First I want to
point out that when we were setting our KFS goals for the year 3 of our new, 3 of our 5 elected
members of the council voted this as our number 1 priority for the year.
Councilman McDonald: It doesn’t make any difference. They have to meet the threshold. You
know that. It’s not the number. It’s the threshold. It didn’t meet it.
Councilman Campion: And I believe that this commission it adds, just like all our other
commissions there is some overlap in their function to positions on staff. It’s an augmentation.
It’s an advisory board to the council. It’s, you’re right. It does not remove our responsibility to
make the tough decisions but it provides us with some more input and these are not paid
positions. These are 5 voluntary positions as Councilman McDonald pointed out here so it is not
a growth of government in that term. And I support this wholeheartedly. I think that it will be
very good for the city and with that.
Councilwoman Coleman: I have to say I’m surprised to hear all the anger I mean how this got to
where it is today. I mean came in as a first time council member in January and learned about
how the agenda was set. I pointed out this was an extraordinarily flawed system. Any system in
which 2 council members, whoever they may be can completely control the agenda and control
what does and does not get on the agenda subverts the role of the people. I pointed that out and I
was told by Councilwoman Tjornhom I do not want to talk about that right now. I was never
informed…conversation could take place again. I think for staff moving forward we definitely
do need to consider this process next year and I suggested maybe a ranking from a 2.5 to 2.2 so
that way any 3 members of council or a majority of council if…priority it would get onto the
Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2019
31
agenda and so that 2 members of council cannot completely control what does and does not get
onto the agenda. With that being said…repeatedly heard again and again about this request from
the business community. I don’t think it creates another layer of government. I think it creates a
voice and I love what our staff does here but to say that they can be the only voices I think is
inaccurate. I think any time you give businesses or people a chance to have more of a voice or to
get their voices out there through different avenues is beneficial. With that being said I do have
two questions. I would like to get clarification on Councilman McDonald’s question on who
makes the by-laws, if that’s us or the commission and setting up the commissions in the past who
did that?
Greg Sticha: Section C under 2-46.13, the second sentence does state the City Council will
adopt it’s by-laws I also referenced the last sentence in that section, City Council shall
determine it’s by-laws, the day and time of the meeting and shall set public hearings as necessary
and desired as required by law or this code. That’s the language that I put in there. If the council
would like to change any or all of that language we certainly can.
Councilwoman Coleman: Is that how that’s typically done for other commissions?
Greg Sticha: I believe the other commissions, the commissions themselves set up the by-laws
but there was a request for this particular commission for the City Council to set the by-laws so
that’s why I included that language. It’s completely up to the discretion of the City Council.
Councilwoman Coleman: And Councilman McDonald that was your concern, you wanted the
council to make the by-laws, not the commission?
Councilman McDonald: Yes. That is correct.
Councilwoman Coleman: Okay.
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, council I think the last commission we established was the
Environmental Commission and the council determined the by-laws and how they operated as an
educational body and I think there was emphasis placed on that and that they would only provide
recommendations to the council.
Mayor Ryan: Thank you. I already note that Councilman Campion had an action but I also
would like to address this topic and actually go back a little bit further than our January meeting.
This idea of having an economic development commission actually came up at the Buy
Chanhassen candidate forum and one of the questions that came from the community or the
people that were at that meeting, however Vernelle comes up with those questions was what are
you doing, something to the effect of you know new ideas for moving the city forward and one
of the ideas that I had and over the course of the last year looking at other cities when they look
at economic development and different ways to do it, they believe that community involvement
is something very important and so I had suggested that I thought it would be advantageous for
Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2019
32
the City to have an economic development commission and that’s why I put it down as a priority
for me when we did our strategy meeting in January. We can debate the fairness of it at another
time but when you talk about what the purpose of an economic development commission a lot of
the answers that I hear tonight and I appreciate Mr. Gerhardt’s vision but in addition to what he
suggested is we don’t have necessarily a body because Ms. Aanenson is busy with her day to day
as Mr. McDonald said. It’s a full time job. She’s doing it all the time and has a staff that
supports her and helps her but that is reactionary to things that are coming before us as people
that want to do business in the city. The idea behind this economic development commission is
to be forward thinking or looking out. Seeing what other opportunities we as a council, a city
can provide. What opportunities for businesses to come to the city. We had a you know a vision
study of our downtown and this is just specific to downtown but we had a vision study for
downtown and talked about walkability and access ability. Sub-districts. Identifying sub-
districts. I mean what would those sub-districts mean and we got it a year plus ago and haven’t
addressed those and so the idea is here we have a commission that isn’t going to just react to
what comes to the city to say I’m interested in doing this but look for opportunities for the City
for continued growth. Our neighboring cities do it. Chaska had a downtown task force. You
know our neighboring cities are always looking for opportunities for growth and development
and that is what this commission would provide in my vision for it is to be forward thinking and
planning. Kate, Ms. Aanenson does get calls and ask you know may get presented with an idea
and based on what her knowledge is of extensive at that, where we’re at with the city, often times
get asked well I would also like to speak to the EDC or an EDA and yes the council is an EDA
and so often times then they call me and it isn’t my job to say yeah or nay. It’s not Ms.
Aanenson’s job to say yeah or nay and I have the conversations and ask them to come back and
present before council as we’ve started to do. But in this case’s route it would be a great
opportunity to say here’s another body of people to evaluate your idea because sometimes it’s so
early in the stage that they don’t have the particular drawings and development. It’s just, it’s an
idea or a concept that they just want to get as many opinions and feedback from people involved
with the city and then it would come as a recommendation to, you know through us or through
you know with Ms. Aanenson’s feedback so it’s, instead of the city continuing to be reactionary
in terms of how we grow and develop, I have the vision to be proactive in economic
development for the city and that is why I think that this would be such a benefit to our city in
the long term. So those are my comments. If there’s any further comments or a motion?
Councilman Campion: I’ll make a motion.
Mayor Ryan: Councilman Campion.
Councilman Campion: The City Council adopts an ordinance amending Chapter 2 of the
Chanhassen City Code establishing an Economic Development Commission.
Mayor Ryan: We have a valid motion. Is there a second?
Councilwoman Coleman: I second that motion.
Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2019
33
Mayor Ryan: With a valid motion and a second.
Ordinance 643: Councilman Campion moved, Councilwoman Coleman seconded that the
City Council adopts an ordinance amending Chapter 2 of the Chanhassen City Code
establishing an Economic Development Commission. All voted in favor, except for
Councilman McDonald and Councilwoman Tjornhom who opposed, and the motion
carried with a vote of 3 to 2.
Mayor Ryan: That motion carries 3-2. Next on our agenda, are there any council presentations?
Oh I’m sorry. I apologize. New Business G-4 moved from the consent agenda to approve,
establish an emergency no, slow no wake area on Lake Minnewashta.
D-8. RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING EMERGENCY SLOW NO-WAKE AREA ON
LAKE MINNEWASHTA; AND ADOPT ORDINANCE AMENDING SECTION 6-49 OF
THE CHANHASSEN CITY CODE CONCERNING SLOW NO-WAKE.
Todd Gerhardt: This is will be a team approach. Jason and I, I’ll take a good shot at this.
There’s two actions asked of the City Council is one, adopt a resolution establishing emergency
slow no-wake area for Lake Minnewashta. It’s an after the fact emergency slow no-wake area
due to the high water that occurred about 2 weeks ago and little update. Today is we took the no
wake off Minnewashta about 3:00 and it’s been 3 days below the high water mark so the no
wake has been removed off of Lake Minnewashta so everybody’s free to use the lake as they, as
the rules will allow them under city ordinance and the DNR. The second action is the council
approve an ordinance amending Section 6-49 of the Chanhassen City Code concerning slow no-
wake and I think the issue at hand here is what staff did is modified the ordinance. Really two
areas have changed. The water level of which the slow no-wake restrictions apply for Lotus,
Lake Lucy, Lake Minnewashta and Lake Susan. You’ll notice that the elevations didn’t follow
the high water mark or FEMA or some of the, or any of those follow any consistency. And the
reason for that is each of the lakes have different topography. Different flows out of the lake and
so when it came to Lake Minnewashta it hit the current high water mark almost for the whole
summer so what we did is took a 10 year average of the different elevations and took an average
and it came at 945 and talked to a couple of lake homeowners and they were in concurrence of
the 945 which in the last 10 years I think there were 7 times a no-wake ordinance would have
been placed and this year would have been one of them. So I think nobody really has any issue
with the ordinary high water mark or the FEMA 100 year food elevations on Lake Lucy or the
882 ½ on Lake Susan. I think the big concern here is not putting the slow no-wake on for 3 days
when it’s above the high water mark and this again is similar to what Eden Prairie used on Lake
Riley on their side of the lake. Minnetonka which isn’t similar to any of our lakes but has a 5
day elevation where it’s got to be above the high water mark there for 5 days before they place
the slow no-wake restrictions on and we’re proposing 3 days on all of the lakes mentioned up
above before the high water mark goes into place. And the reason for that some of them drain
faster than others and so we don’t want to put it on and then have to take it off the next day or
Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2019
34
wait 3 days to take it off so staff is indifferent. We’ll take direction from the public or council on
what you would like to see in that but staff is recommending 3 days of being above the suggested
water level on the table in the ordinance.
Mayor Ryan: Thank you Mr. Gerhardt. Ms. Susla before, I know you asked to have this taken
off. Council are there any comments based on what Mr. Gerhardt shared?
Jason Wedel: Mayor, could I just add too?
Mayor Ryan: Of course. Yeah of course.
Jason Wedel: Thank you. One of the other changes in the ordinance was prior to this putting
the no wake on required a council action. This changes it to being at the direction of the Public
Works Director so in the, you know wanting to be as effective as we can and not waiting 2
weeks, you know as a certain situation occurs the intent was that we could be, react more quickly
if it was at the direction of the Public Works Director so the whole point of this was having a
table with the lakes, with the specific elevations. We could post it on our websites. We can you
know blast it out on social media. Everyone knows what the elevations are now. I think it’s in
the past it’s been not widely known and we have these elevations and when we trip them, we’re
over for 3 days then the no-wake comes on and it’s more of an automatic thing than something
that requires a lot of discussion or coming back to the City Council for consideration.
Mayor Ryan: And so then you become the point of contact for these lakes?
Jason Wedel: Correct.
Mayor Ryan: Okay. Perfect. Ms. Susla.
Todd Gerhardt: That’s the best point.
Mayor Ryan: Yeah.
Laurie Susla: Good evening. Again I’m Laurie Susla, 7008 Dakota Avenue. I’m the President
of the Lotus Lake Conservation Alliance and I just right off the bat would like to say thank you
for letting a member of the public pull something off the consent agenda. I think that’s a
wonderful way for you all to listen to what people have to say in the community so thank you for
that. I’d also like to thank Renae Clark for addressing this issue. This has been a not great
section of code for a while. She gave me a call late this afternoon to let me know about the
addition of this to the agenda and I appreciate her communication. You may know that
Minnewashta and Lucy right now don’t have no-wake level set and so that causes problems for
those lakes and so I’m sure that the folks on those lakes are very happy to see this going on.
Having said that our board is very supportive of this but we’re concerned with the 3 consecutive
day issue. A lot can happen in 3 days. We are getting larger and larger storm systems coming
Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2019
35
through. Storms back to back and we could be in a situation where we were over our, I’m not
just speaking for Lotus, any lake in Chanhassen could be over their wake point for 3 days. You
could be 6 inches over for 3 days because it does take quite a bit of time for these lakes to drain.
So as Todd, excuse me as City Manager Gerhardt just mentioned the thought behind it was to not
have lakes go on and off and on and off but typically you wouldn’t get to the point where you’re
hitting the no wake unless there is a fairly significant event going on and we typically don’t have
those time after time after time. So as was mentioned before we’re just concerned with that 3
days wait because the damaging effect that boats doing whatever they are doing on the lake for 3
days could have on shoreline particularly but also on docks and boats and when the other area
lakes have gone on no-wake and the Chanhassen lakes are waiting we just see an influx of traffic
during that time that would be even further damaging. So what we’re asking, our board is asking
is in this ordinance it’s in paragraph B, section 2, line 3. Just to remove those 4 words, for three
consecutive days. It’s the third line down in the second paragraph and to, everything else is great
and we just would ask you to consider changing that one part.
Mayor Ryan: Great, thank you.
Laurie Susla: Thank you.
Mayor Ryan: Council any questions or comments as it relates to the removal of the three
consecutive days?
Councilman McDonald: Ms. Mayor then Ms. Susla are you asking that as soon as it gets to the
high water mark there should be no wake or, because you’re saying you don’t want the three
days. What do you want?
Laurie Susla: So current code is that when it hits the no wake point the lakes go on no wake.
This would be a change from the current code to implement a 3 day waiting period which is not
what we do now and we what we experience on Lotus is by the time it gets to that point it really
is time to put it under no wake. Not to wait for another 3 days.
Councilman McDonald: Okay so what you would propose is that we get to the high water mark
and that immediately creates a no wake upon that lake?
Laurie Susla: Correct as is currently happening now.
Councilman McDonald: Okay instead of waiting 3 days, okay.
Laurie Susla: Thank you.
Councilman Campion: If we leave the 3 day, the 3 consecutive day rule for taking the no wake
off.
Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2019
36
Laurie Susla: I’m sorry could you repeat that.
Councilman Campion: So after the no wake has been posted you’d leave the 3 day requirement,
the 3 consecutive day…
Laurie Susla: Yes because it takes a while. I mean typically you’d have the type of thing where
you’d…the no wake. You’ll typically go beyond it and then it will take some time for it to come
down so that’s just we’d like to see that part left.
Councilman Campion: Okay. Understood.
Laurie Susla: Thank you.
Mayor Ryan: I think that’s it. Any thoughts again council on the removal of the 3 consecutive
days or interest in discussing? Anyone on council. Mr. McDonald.
Councilman McDonald: Well I can support the 3 day going up but also I would like to see that
once it gets back below the high water mark you take it off. I don’t see why we want to wait 3
days. If that’s the mark that makes all the difference then it should work both going up and
going down.
Mayor Ryan: Ms. Susla.
Laurie Susla: If I may I would like to again point out that what we’re asking for is the way code
is right now. That it comes on when the high water mark is hit. It goes off after it’s been below
for 3 days because you can have the draining and the water because these lakes are filled
primarily by stormwater drainage. That continues for days after the event so you’ll have a
situation where you’ll go above. Maybe you’ll go below and then maybe it will come back up so
to Manager Gerhardt’s point about not going on and off and on and off we’re just asking that the
criteria of when you go on and when you go off stays as it is now.
Mayor Ryan: What the current code states.
Laurie Susla: Current, yes. Which if you remove those 4 words would be as it is now.
Mayor Ryan: Okay thank you.
Laurie Susla: Thank you.
Mayor Ryan: Mr. Gerhardt or any thoughts on the removal of the words three consecutive days?
Jason Wedel: I can Mayor, members of the council. The lake levels they don’t happen
overnight. I mean they usually are trending up when you’ve got a lot of rain coming in and then
Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2019
37
it takes a while for them to level off and drop back down. There is some level of discretion there
where if you’re watching the lake levels and you’re seeing that it’s slowly creeping up but you
think it’s only going to be a no wake for a day and you know before things are going to start
trending back down again, it’s hard to City Manager Gerhardt’s point is to post things for a day
and then take them off and post them for a day and take it off. I think if you know if there was
some discretion at my level to say okay yep, it’s trending up and I look at the forecast. I can see
we’ve got a bunch of rainfall events on the horizon then it probably makes sense to put it on
because we know more rain is coming. But if it looks like it’s barely going to get there and it’s
dry for the next 2 weeks you know maybe it’s a wait and see approach to see if it’s going to stay
there for a day or two. But that would put the burden more on me and I don’t know if that’s
what we want to just have it an automatic that it’s, that there is no discretion there then that
would be up to the council I guess to decide if it’s 3 days or just immediate but that would just be
some of my thoughts.
Mayor Ryan: Thank you. I’m similar to Councilman McDonald. You know I think if the magic
number is the magic number that as soon as that number is hit I feel like a no wake zone should
apply because often times it still continues to creep up a little bit. It doesn’t just hit that number
and then immediately recede. It usually continues to creep up a little bit before, before it goes
back down. And in the rare case that if it needed to come off right away you know I guess that’s
an unfortunate, fortunate and unfortunate at the same time but I think it’s a dangerous to wait 3
days especially on a lake specific to Lotus that is so narrow that you let it continue to increase
and wait 3 days while people are out on their boats. I think that the number is there for a reason
and once it’s hit that we should you know we should enforce a no wake zone. A slow no-wake
zone. My thoughts so I would be in favor of removing the three consecutive days.
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor on all lakes or just Lotus?
Mayor Ryan: I think consistency is good on all lakes. My opinion.
Councilman McDonald: Well the ordinance is written for all lakes right. It doesn’t say any
particular lake.
Mayor Ryan: Correct, exactly.
Todd Gerhardt: I was looking at the old ordinance.
Mayor Ryan: Looking for more comments or an action.
Keith Paap: Is additional public comment allowed? No? Alright.
Mayor Ryan: Sure.
Keith Paap: Keith My name’s Keith Paap at 3601.
Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2019
38
Mayor Ryan: Could you step forward please.
Keith Paap: Keith Paap at 3601 Red Cedar Point Road. So I’m out at the very end of Lake
Minnewashta so this is one of the things that impacts me a lot. So that lake level that’s listed I
was contacted, one of the people they contacted and kind of polled. It used to be 944.8 so we
basically added 3 more inches but when we reach that level you’re already causing damage so
when it falls below 945 on Minnewashta damage is still occurring even though they took it off.
…lake going over my shoreline still even though it’s down a little bit so I do, I don’t think you
want to go one day on and take it off another day. I think what you’re looking at is like 4 day
window. If it reaches the point you put it on but then you’re looking at least a 4 day window of
letting that water recede back below that damage point so.
Mayor Ryan: Perfect. Thank you for your feedback. Appreciate it. Council any motions?
Further discussion.
Councilwoman Coleman: Does that change the wording for the motion then?
Mayor Ryan: It would yes.
Todd Gerhardt: You’d eliminate the 3 days and then under Lake Minnewashta we just added a
comment of 10 percent chance occurrence. I think that was just the comment from Renae saying
that what we did is we calculated the 10 year average of 945 so based on that 945 there was a 10
percent chance that the no-wake ordinance would go on. So I would eliminate the 10 percent
chance occurrence and just.
Roger Knutson: Level up.
Todd Gerhardt: And level.
Mayor Ryan: So within the ordinance eliminate 10 percent chance occurrence and just so it
reads level of 945.
Councilman Campion: Or would be ordinary high water level of?
Todd Gerhardt: No the ordinary high water level is statistical level of determining the lake.
What she’s saying is that it should really be the 10 year average occurrence level of 945.
Roger Knutson: So you’d amend it just to read level of 945. That’s what it would say.
Todd Gerhardt: Because we couldn’t use high water because if we went with high water then
nobody could use the lake for almost half the summer. If you looked at the scale of the high
water marks on Minnewashta it was like this. So we started going up and then we pulled all the
Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2019
39
high water marks and data that we had over the last 10 years. Put it in a spreadsheet and did the
average and it came at 944.9 so we rounded up to 945. So there’s no scientific level other than
taking the history of the last 10 years.
Mayor Ryan: But for the motion what Mr. Knutson is saying is that.
Todd Gerhardt: Level of 945.
Mayor Ryan: Level of 945 and then.
Councilman Campion: Is it level of 882.5 for Lake Susan?
Todd Gerhardt: Level of 882.5 for Lake Susan to be consistent.
Councilman Campion: Okay.
Mayor Ryan: Would anyone like to make a motion?
Councilman Campion: Anyone brave?
Todd Gerhardt: The only restriction that you would have to take out is under number 2.
Eliminate the words exceed for three consecutive days. So put a period after which slow no-
wake restrictions apply period.
Roger Knutson: Is met.
Todd Gerhardt: Is met period.
Councilman Campion: Alright I’ll make a motion.
Mayor Ryan: Councilman Campion.
Councilman Campion: Alright. The City Council adopts a resolution establishing an emergency
slow no-wake area for Lake Minnewashta and the City Council approves an ordinance amending
Section 6-49 of the Chanhassen City Code concerning slow no-wake with the modifications
discussed such that Lake Minnewashta reads, level of 945.0.
Todd Gerhardt: And Lake Susan.
Councilman Campion: And Lake Susan reads Level of 882.5. And Section B(2), the first
sentence removes the words “for three consecutive days”.
Mayor Ryan: Exceeded.
Chanhassen City Council – June 10, 2019
40
Todd Gerhardt: Exceeded.
Roger Knutson: Or exceed for three consecutive days.
Todd Gerhardt: Just a period after met and then or exceeded for three consecutive days.
Councilman Campion: Alright. What Todd said.
Mayor Ryan: I believe we have a valid motion. Is there a second?
Councilwoman Coleman: I’ll second that.
Mayor Ryan: Alright with a valid motion and a second.
Councilman Campion moved, Councilwoman Coleman seconded that the Chanhassen City
Council approve Resolution #2019-29 establishing emergency slow-no wake area on Lake
Minnewashta with the change to Section 6-49(b)(2) deleting the words “or exceeded for
three consecutive days”; and adopts Ordinance 642 amending Section 6-49 of the
Chanhassen City Code concerning slow-no wake with the change to Section (b)(1) Lake
Minnewashta Level of 945.0 and Lake Susan Level of 882.5. All voted in favor and the
motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
Mayor Ryan: That motion carries 5-0.
COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS. None.
ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS. None.
CORRESPONDENCE DISCUSSION. None.
Mayor Ryan: Alright we are, council is meeting again in the Fountain Conference Room to
continue our work session meeting but I would take a motion for adjournment.
Councilwoman Coleman moved, Councilman Campion seconded to adjourn the meeting.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0. The City
Council meeting was adjourned at 9:05 p.m.
Submitted by Todd Gerhardt
City Manager
Prepared by Nann Opheim