CC 1995 04 10r
CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL
REGULAR MEETING
APRIL 10, 1995
Mayor Chmiel called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. The meeting was opened with the Pledge to the Flag.
COUNCILMEMBERS PRESENT: Mayor Chmiel, Councilman Berquist, Councilwoman Dockendorf,
Councilman Mason, and Councilman Senn
STAFF PRESENT: Don Ashworth, Roger Knutson, Todd GerhardL Charles Folch~ Sharmin AI-Jaff, and Todd
Hoffman
APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Councilwoman Dockendorf moved, Councilman Mason seconded to approve the
agenda with the following changes: Item #9 was deleted; Don Ashworth wanted to add an item on meeting
dates under Administrative Presentations; and Councilwoman Dockendorf needed to update the Council on
Southwest Metro Transit Commission items under Council Presentations~ All voted in favor of the agenda as
amended and the motion carried.
PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: None.
CONSENT AGENDA: Councilman Mason moved, Councilman Senn seconded to approve the following
Consent Agenda items pursuant to the City Manager's recommendations:
a. City Code Amendment to Chapter 7, Buildings and Building Regulations, Revisions/Clarification Required
due to the Adoption of the new Minnesota State Building Code, Final Reading.
b. Powers Place and Powers Place 2nd Addition, Located on the West Side of Powers Boulevard, South of
Lake Susan Hills Drive, Jasper Development:
1) Final Plat Approval
2) Approve Development Contract & Construction Plans and Specifications
c. Point Lake Lucy, located on the south side of Lake Lucy Road just west of Willowridge Subdivision, Ted
Coey property, Mason Homes:
1) Final Plat Approval and Final Reading for Rezoning
2) Approve Development Contract & Construction Plans and Specifications
f. Resolution #95-41: Approve Additional Street Mileage Designation to the Municipal State-Aid System.
g. Approval of Bills.
h. City Council Minutes dated March 27, 1995
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS:
Todd Hoffman: Your Honor, members of the City Council, I'd like to introduce... Last week Jo Watson called
me on behalf of District #112, girls hockey program...District #112 is struggling to finance a girls hockey
program so the Board has sent that group off to raise I believe it's $20,000.00 to assist in getting that program
k
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1995
off the ground. So xvith that request, I suggested that Jo come in to the City Council meeting and present the
information to you so the City Council can make a decision on how you would like to...
Jo Watson: Thank you Todd. As Todd mentioned, the.
Mayor Chmiel: Would you please state your name for the record.
Jo Watson: I'm sorry, Jo Watson and I am representing female athletes in District #112. The Chaska School
Board gave tentative approval for the Chaska High School female girls to merge and go cooperative for a High
School hockey league with Eden Prairie to defray costs, because it costs roughly $56,000.00 to fund a hockey
team. If we go with Eden Prairie xve'll cut the costs down to about $25,000.00. The School Board gave
approval, but no money. They just don't have the funds. So I'm here, xve had a campaign going, trying to see
if we can get people to commit to donations to the school for girls hockey. We need $20,000.00. At the
present time xve have commitments for $4,600.00, xvhich...we think is pretty good. So we're here to see if the
City of Chanhassen would be interested in making a contribution to girls hockey...
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, thank you. What ~ve'll have to do with this is put this onto our next agenda and have
discussion at that particular time, xvhich will be in 2 weeks. Well I should say the first, second Monday of the
month. And that we can take and discuss at that particular time. When it relates to dollars, just like everybody
else, everybody has tight budgets but at least we can discuss and talk and see. So xvith that, ~ve'll move that to
our next available agenda.
Councilman Mason: Your Honor?
Mayor Chmiel: Yes.
Councilman Mason: As long as that's coming up for discussion, and I'm not quite sure how we'd go about
finding this but off the top of my head, not 'knoxving the situation at all, I'm a little confused as to why girls
hockey has to raise money for their program and boys hockey doesn't. And I wonder if ~ve can get an ans~ver to
that question also at that time. And maybe you can shed some light on it Jo, I don't kno~v.
Jo Watson: Well t did go to the School Board meeting. There just isn't money in the budget for adding a new
sport.
Councilman Mason: Well I think there are some, well okay. Well I think that will need to be looked into. I'm
concerned about that a little bit.
Mayor Chmiel: Alright. Did you have anything Steve?
Councilman Berquist: No.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Alright. So with that, we'll move right along. Thank you.
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1995
PUBLIC HEARING: VACATION OF UNUSED PORTION OF WEST 78TH STREET RIGHT-OF-WAY
WITHIN THE PLATS OF WEST VILLAGE HEIGHTS AND BURDICK PARK 2ND ADDITION LYING
WESTERLY OF THE NORTHERLY EXTENSION OF THE WESTERLY RIGHT-OF-WAY OF TARGET
LANE AS SHOWN ON THE PLAT OF CHANHASSEN RETAIL ADDITION~ CITY OF CHANHASSEN.
Mayor Chmiel called the public hearing to order.
Charles Folch: Thank you Mr. Mayor, members of the Council. This item should be relatively straight forward.
It's basically a housekeeping item in conjunction with the plat that's coming through for Chan Retail 2nd
Addition. Basically we're vacating the old right-of-way that is no longer necessary for 78th Street. In a sense
we're basically vacating it back to ourselves... As indicated in the staff report, there are some underlying utilities
within this right-of-way which...acquiring that with the final plat of the appropriate utility easements be
maintained. Notice has been sent to all property owners within 500 feet of the area. It's also been published
and to date staff has not received any calls or questions regarding this matter. As such, again it should be
relatively straight forward and staff would recommend that the described area as shown on the diagram of the
staff report be vacated subject to receiving the necessary utility easements.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, thank you. Very much similar to what we did for Target?
Charles Folch: Correct.
Mayor Chmiel: Alright. Is there anyone ~vishing to come forward. As I mentioned, this is a public hearing.
Anyone wishing to address this particular issue. If seeing none, is there a motion to close the public hearing?
Councilman Mason moved, Councilman Senn seconded to close the public heating. All voted in favor and the
motion carried. The public hearing was closed.
Mayor Chmiel: Any discussion? Steve?
Councilman Berquist: No. Don't have any discussion. Housekeeping.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, Mike.
Councilman Mason: None.
Mayor Chmiel: Mark.
Councilman Senn: Just one clarification, and Todd maybe this is a question for you rather than Charles. We're
vacating this back to ourselves but then we're turning around and selling this to Ryan so I assume this is
included in the square footage calculations in terms of land we're selling to Ryan?
Todd Gerhardt: Yes.
Councilman Senn: Okay. So we'll be getting paid by Ryan then for this property?
Todd Gerhardt: Yes.
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1995
Mayor Chmiel: We're getting a buck for a buck.
Todd Gerhardt: It's an easement in the overlay plat, as Charles mentioned, and the telephone line goes through
there and a few other utilities so we've kept this area as an easement for those utilities but the underlying
property that would be a part of the plat...
Councilman Senn: Yeah, because they'll be the underlying owner and they'll be using it for their setbacks and
all that sort of thing, right?
Todd Gerhardt: Correct.
Councilman Senn: Okay.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, is there a motion?
Councilman Berquist: Move approval.
Councilman Senn: Second.
Resolution #95-42: Councilman Berquist moved, Councilman Mason seconded to adopt a resolution vacating
the unused portion of West 78th Street as dedicated in the plats of West Village Heights and Burdiek Park 2nd
Addition lying westerly of the northerly extension of the westerly fight-of-way line of Target Lane as shown on
the plat of Chanhassen Retail Addition contingent upon the dedication of appmpfiate public drainage and utility
easements on the Chanhassen Retail Second Addition plat; All voted in favor and the motion carried
unanimously.
AWARD OF BIDS FOR EQUIPMENT FOR THE RECREATION CENTER.
Todd Gerhardt: Attached for City Council's consideration is the award of bids for the rec center furnishings.
As part of the layout of the rec center we have a reception area where you see couches and chairs and people
coming in to xvait to get picked up parents or other individuals. We also have, I have a drawing that I'll pass
around of the outline of the equipment. Staff has been working with Hammel Green who is the architects on
the project. They're also bidding out the equipment and furnishings for the school. So we tagged along with
the School District in a larger bidding process in hopes of lower bidding. Original budget xvas $77,943.00 and
the original bids came in at $67,300.37. With that we saw a savings of approximately $10,000.00 from what
HGA had estimated for these furnishings. Staff listed each of the contract bidders who bid on the equipment
and unfortunately we're going to have to award each one of those as we go through those ....
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, thank you. Is there any discussion in regards to item number 3? Colleen.
Councilxvoman Dockendorf: A question. Will we be seeing any more of these furnishing requests? I mean
what is our overall furnishing budget?
Todd Gerhardt: The furnishings, taking into account the Stairmaster, mats and things like that, the overall
budget was about $250,000.00 and of this, we got the treadmills, the bikes, volleyball nets, bleachers.
Councilxvoman Dockendorf: Have xve put, excuse me, have xve put that out to bid yet?
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1995
Todd Gerhardt: Not all of it.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Okay. And will that come in as one? I mean I just don't want to do this
piecemeal, so I don't get an overall picture of what we're spending.
Todd Gerhardt: Well a lot of this, the School District wasn't bidding out Stairmasters and that kind of
equipment so we're going to have to go out to separate contractors for that, and Todd's been taking quotes on
that. So that will be the next award you'll see and then bleachers will be separate.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Because that is with the School District.
Todd Gerhardt: We did include it in this but nobody responded to the bid at that time so we have to do a
special one after that.
Todd Hoffman: Councilwoman Dockendorf, for your information. The remainder of those purchases of the
athletic equipment, weigh machines, is specialized equipment so it will come to you piecemealc It won't be a
docket of $125,000.00 worth of recreational equipment. It's specialized vendors. There's not a provider of
equipment out there that will provide all that equipment so we will be dealing with individual vendors on a
piecemeal basis. Now they may come to you all in one.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: That's my concern. That we get it all. That we see it allc I don't care if we have
different vendors. I just want to get an overall picture of what we're spending on furnishings.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Steve.
Councilman Berquist: I'm curious. Do you have any idea why a lot of the items were, ! mean they're almost
defaulted. The other people that bid never included the bid bond.
Todd Gerhardt: Metro Systems, we buy a lot of equipment through them through City Hall. They've always
submitted bid bonds. It...fault themselves not to include it. And at the meeting they said they'd give a personal
check but that's not acceptable in the bidding procedures. So I said the same thing.
Councilman Berquist: So they just screwed up.
Todd Gerhardt: ...state contract on a lot of equipment and it was pretty clear in the specifications that you
would submit a 10% bid bond. So it's sad to see that, there weren't too many items..~
Councilman Berquist: So this whole thing was part of a larger bid package?
Todd Gerhardt: Yes it was.
Councilman Berquist: What was that total bid package worth?
Todd Gerhardt: Our's was worth 67 and I don't remember what the School District's portion was. ! think it was
in the hundreds of thousands.
Councilman Berquist: Alright. Nothing else.
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1995
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, Mark.
Councilman Senn: Well Steve asked that one. The other one was, Todd what, now is this part of the cost
sharing deal or not?
Todd Hoffman: The equipment, no it's not. The individual furnishings.
Councilman Senn: Okay, so this was furnishings for just our facility that we'll be using. The school won't be
using this equipment.
Todd Hoffman: They xvill be using it, just as we will be using their building. Through policy where we would
reserve their space and they xvould reserve our space as needed.
Councilman Senn: You mean like their gym you mean or what?
Todd Hoffman: Sure. We'll use their gym. We'll also be taking advantage of classrooms and community
education space on occasion. Using their kitchen. As for the School District will reserve time at the
community rooms and our gymnasiums during the day. There may be some days where ;ve ;vill break down the
wall and the school will use both gymnasiums... On a routine basis, the city will be scheduling it's space. The
school will be operating out of it's school space.
Councilman Senn: Noxv are we going to be set up to handle larger group functions, that sort of thing in the
gymnasium at all?
Todd Hoffman: Yes. Auditorium type functions.
Mayor Chmiel: Michael?
Councilman Mason: No.
Mayor Chmiel: And I don't really have any. Before I ask for a motion, I'll just read the recommendations for
the follo;ving low bidders are Vireo, $3,444.88; S & T, $49.00; ATD American, $885.14; Office Machines,
$18,730.70; Jones Library Sales, $638.75; S & T, $8,700.66; S & T, $1,230.78; S & T, $601.76; American
Draperies, $1,198.00; Herman Miller, $8,401.70; and K1, $3,141.00. Is there a motion?
Councilman Mason: So moved.
Mayor Chmiel: Is there a second?
Council~voman Dockendorf: Second.
Resolution #95-43: Councilman Mason moved, Councilwoman Dockendorf seconded to award the bids for the
Recreation Center furnishings as follows:
Vireo $ 3,444.88
S & T $ 49.00
ATD-American $ 885.14
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1995
Office Machines
Jones Library Sales
S&T
S&T
S&T
American Draperies
Herman Miller
K1
18,730.70
638.75
8,700.66
1,230.78
601.76
1,198.00
8,401.70
3,141.00
Ail voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously°
PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT AMENDMENT FOR THE REALLOCATION OF DENSITY TO
INCLUDE 51 TOWNHOUSES AND 70 SENIOR HOUSING UNITS~ OAK PONDS 3RD ADDITION
LOCATED NORTH OF SANTA VERA DR1VE~ DEAN 1L JOHNSON CONSTRUCTION:
A. PRELIMINARY AND FINAL PLAT APPROVAL AND SITE PLAN APPROVAL OF THE TOWNHOUSE
UNITS.
Bo APPROVE DEVELOPMENT CONTRACT AND CONSTRUCTION PLANS AND SPECIFICATIONS.
Public Present:
Name AddmSs
Bradley C. Johnson
Kirk Velett
Bill Dolan
Greg Hrometka
Tim & Mary Anderson
Bernice Billison
Sherol Howard
Jane & Chuck Kubitz
Mel Kurvers
241 Frontier Trail
BRW Elness Architects
Engineer
7580 Canyon Curve
7550 Canyon Curve
7281 Pontiac Circle
1005 Pontiac Lane
42492 Saratoga Drive
7240 Kurvers Point Road
Sharmin A1-Jaff: As you mentioned Mr. Mayor, this application came before on March 27th but due to lack of~
part of the request is a planned unit development amendment which requires 4/5 vote. At the time only 3
members of the Council were present. Quick background on this application. The applicant is requesting
preliminary and final plat and site plan approval to construct 51 units, multi-family housing project. The
replatting of this project is before you and was triggered by senior housing studies which started approximately
5 years ago. The study was open ended. No pre-conceived ideas. The results indicated definite needs for
senior housing. The city investigated 13 sites throughout the city. The subject site is ideal for senior housing.
It is within walking distance from all amenities within downtown. The city is currently working with Carver
County HRA and Dembar Group Development to prepare plans and we are hoping to appear before the Planning
Commission on the 19th of this month to look at senior housing site plans. If this transfer of density is not
approved, senior housing becomes a moot issue. Back to this development. The approved density for the site is
9.7 units per acre. The site is guided for 12 units per acre so this is substantially below what the ordinance is
permitting. I will just highlight a few issues that were raised at previous meetings as well as Planning
Commission meetings and by some of the neighbors and show how the applicant has addressed those issues.
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1995
The first one was in regards to some building pads that were staked by the applicant and appeared to be located
under the drip line of trees proposed to be saved. This is the tree that the neighbors are concerned about. The
original plan that came before staff, which the Council has never seen, shows this building further to the north
and this comer would have been located underneath this tree. It was a 6 unit building. Staff advised the
applicant to break it up so we ended up with 4 units and then 2 units to the west of it. Pushed the building
further back and removed it from underneath this tree. Therefore the applicant is proposing to save this tree and
it will be saved. Second concern that was raised by some of the neighbors was the location of a utility line and
how it would impact trees. As you can see there's approximately 35 to 45 foot setback from those trees and we
don't anticipate that they would be impacted. Just as further guaranteeing those trees, we added a condition that
~vould guarantee those trees for 2 years. If those trees have been damaged or if they die, then the applicant
xvould have to replace them as required by ordinance. We're also requesting that the applicant escrows 20% of
the landscaping cost to guarantee this replacement. The applicant has also provided revised landscaping plan.
Some of the neighbors requested additional landscaping to compensate for expanding pads of some of those
units. As you can see, additional landscaping has been added to make up for the extended pad. I guess the last
issue is fences. Privacy fences to be located along an interior private street. Those fences are proposed to, there
would be 11 of them. Each fence will be 6 feet high. 16 feet ,,vide. We believe that this distracts from the
appearance of the development and it would be best served through the use of hedges or other landscape
material. With that xve're recommending approval of this application with conditions outlined in the staff report.
Thank you.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, thank you. Is there any questions for Sharmin at this time?
Councilman Berquist: Originally that piece xvas much denser. You eluded to a 6 unit that you asked to be
broken tip and it got broken up into a 4 and a 2.
Sharmin A1-Jaff: Correct.
Councilman Berquist: Was the construction similar to what is being proposed now in terms of overall height of
the units.
Sharmin Al-Jarl: Yes. Grading was a lot more as well. So as the applicant broke the unit from 6 to 4 and 2,
the grading, the overall grading on the site was reduced. Impact on the trees was reduced as well.
Councilman Berquist: Okay. Never ~vas there any approval for stacked living. For level, level, level.
Sharmin A1-Jaff: No.
Councilman Berquist: It was always housing similar to what's on the south side of that road now?
Sharmin A1-Jaff: We had not seen any plans. Site plans that showed us what the elevations ;vould look like
eventually. We had some concepts but nothing that was approved by Council.
Councilman Berquist: Alright.
Mayor Chmiel: Any other questions?
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1995
Councilman Senn: I have one. Is it a fair characterization to say that really what this action does tonight is
lower the density on property that's not going to be city property so they can proceed?
Sharmin A1-Jaff: Correct.
Councilman Senn: Okay. Because we haven't made any decisions as it relates to the senior housing and what's
going to happen there in terms of the site or elevations or anything so, I mean effectively we're leaving that
door open and lowering the density on the other one so they can proceed. That's a fair statement? Okay.
Councilman Berquist: Increasing the density on the one end and lowering it on the other, right?
Sharmin A1-Jaff: Correct.
Councilman Senn: Yeah but increasing the density doesn't mean we're approving the density I guess is the point
I'm trying to make. Because this is my first exposure to a 4-5 story senior building and I guess I'd like to give
that some thought but I have no problem with lowering the density on the other side of the project so they can
proceed, and then consider separately our side of the project, which would be the senior site:
Councilwoman Dockendorf: And that's, if it were the other way around in terms of if the transfer of density
were different. I mean usually these come in as a package deal but this isn't a package deal. However, we're
talking about lowering the density on one side so I don't have a problem with it.
Councilman Senn: Yeah, because the land deal's done I mean as far as the city's parcel, that's approved so I
mean now we have to undertake our consideration of what's going to happen on the parcel.
Mayor Chmiel: Right. Okay.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: I just have one more comment. I 'knoxv this is late in the game. However, we do
have guidelines in terms of what we like to see on developments like this and I think it was actually Oak Ponds
First Addition which really got our dander up and said, we need to see what these things look like before they
go in. And as I said, this is late in the game to request this but I would have liked to have seen some
schematics.
Sharmin A1-Jaff: Actually the applicant brought some that we looked at briefly in the office before the meeting.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Are they good representations?
Sharmin A1-Jaff: Staff will be able to work with the applicant on them. We feel comfortable with what has
been submitted. We've also given them some examples as to how they could further improve the appearance of
the building.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: But once we, I mean this is the whole shooting match tonight. There's no more
negotiations to take place, are there? I mean this is preliminary and final and site plan approval.
Sharmin A1-Jaff: Correct. However, if there are minor details that would take place, changes that would take
place such as the shape of a xvindow or shutters added to a building, that is something that we could handle
administratively.
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1995
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Any other questions? Mike?
Councilman Mason: Maybe this is more comment than question but I share Colleen's concerns. We've talked
before about having elevations so we can see what's going on. This one, okay. I mean we're close to being
done but I sincerely hope that whoever brings forth the plans for the senior housing, that's a high point and I'm
only speaking for myself on Council but I got to 'know, and I have to see pictures of what that's going to look
like up on that hill there. I mean that's paramount there. Paramount. I mean in my mind personally, there's no
doubt that there's going to be senior housing there but we need to see how high it's going to be up there and I
don't 'k. noxv, I knoxv half a year or so ago there ~vas this real big push to get elevations on things and we did for
a while and now xve're not seeing them anymore and I would certainly, I think we need to see more of that.
One quick question with the PUD. On item 24 here it says, number 24 on page 13. It talks about size of decks
being limited to 80 square feet. Can you just, why that figure came up with? I mean 10 x 8 isn't much of a
deck and I wonder how many people are going to be upset by that.
Sharmin Al-Jarl: We were concerned that if it ~vas larger than that, it would encroach into, it was mainly for
those units. They would encroach further down the hill and that was basically the reason. It would limit, the
applicants agreed to the size so.
Councilman Mason: Okay. Well my only concern then about that is, is are people going to buying into this
'knowing that up front so they don't get all irritated and all that stuff'?. Fine.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, any other? You have it.
Brad Johnson: Thank you very much Mr. Mayor. My name is Brad Johnson. I represent Dean R. Johnson
Construction...You changed my address. 241 Frontier Trail. It used to be 7425. I'd like to just quickly go over
some things and maybe answer some questions about the schematics and things like that. Let me initially say
that I believe that other than one issue on the staff report, and unless something comes out of the neighborhood
that we're not aware of, that xve are okay maybe with the neighbors other than they don't want us to do anything
but is that fair to say?
Resident: I think xve have one issue yet.
Brad Johnson: Okay...so they may have one issue. We've tried to address all of these issues as we've gone
through. The one issue that we have, and we'll address it in the site plan, is that we have requested someplace
along the line somebody said that xve couldn't have any wooden privacy fences at the patios behind these homes.
And remember some of these homes have first floor patios and no decks. And the reason for that is somebody
felt, and it's possibly true, that it wouldn't look very good because they're along the interior road. The problem
is, and so the solution xvas to put a lot of landscaping in. Hedges and stuff. That doesn't grow real quick. So
we've agreed in principle, and we'll go through that later. You 'know they'll show you in the site plans. To add
a hedge all the way around, which will grow to be a hedge, and a lot of landscaping, trees and stuff, to try to
give some privacy to the patios. But the concern initially, there will be no privacy because it takes a while for
all those things to groxv, especially hedges. And so our solution was to put in a 15 foot fence at the back of
each patio, 6 feet high. We've been talking about it but really what xve're looking for is just some, I guess some
type of privacy out the back of the patio window. We could go and say, if that is a concern to some of you, as
you look...we could go to an 8 foot fence and we could lower the height. Just something that we need out in
the back...and I haven't seen this kind of proposal come up where people restricted patio fences if they're all
10
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1995
uniform and the same... So that's the only thing out of 27 recommendations that staff had, that ~ve have a
concern about. And that's in both the development agreement and this.
Councilman Senn: Brad, just a sec. If I'm hearing you right, then you're offering to do the fences and the
landscaping?
Brad Johnson: Yeah.
Councilman Senn: Okay.
Brad Johnson: Well it shows the plan. We tried to take it out but there's a need at the time the person first
moves into it for some privacy and we can do that in a uniform fashion. The original recommendation there
was, what was it Dean, 28, 32 feet between each fence?
Dean Johnson: The lots are 28 feet wide.
Brad Johnson: Okay, so the distance betxveen each fence, we'll show youc Correct Bilk You'll go over that?
Bill Dolan: 28 feet.
Brad Johnson: Okay. Then as far as the elevations and things like that. We tried to follo~v that by rule. You
have a model in front of you which was the alternate choice.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: I didn't even see it.
Mayor Chmiel: It looks good from here.
Brad Johnson: It does not truly reflect xvhat we're building because since we've first met with the neighbors,
they've asked us to move up the hill, which we've done. You asked 3 questions Steve initially. Is this the same
height? Are the buildings the same height? Yes they are. Does it take, I think another question, it takes less
grading than the original plan and I believe it moved up the hill and down the hill, depending upon where you
are. And there are fewer units so we've tried within reason to meet the requirements and stay as close to what
we had originally, and we added a lot more landscaping of late. We do have some elevations that we'll show
you as part of our presentation. You 'know the actual physical elevation because we're trying to meet different
things so with that discussion, someplace along the line Bill Dolan will bring up the fences. We should have a
discussion on that. That's our only, from our point of view. I'm not sure what the neighbors concern is. Just
remember, we're part of the townhome development. We're not trying to, in our presentation, deal with the
issue of the senior housing and... That's an issue probably that will be hashed out because you guys are the
people doing that. So you'll have some control over what that ends up looking like...so that's how I look at that.
So we'd like to kind of move along. Dean is ready to start construction. He's sold some of the units already
and everything is kind of there so. We have two people who will be presenting tonight. Bill Dolan will...site
plan and answer any questions to do with the landscaping and the patio. And then also initially Kirk Velett will
be here and he'll go over the site plan and some of the elevation questions, okay. Kirk.
Kirk Velett: I'm Kirk Velett xvith BRW Elness Architects. We did the original plan for Oak Ponds when it was
rental and we xvorked with Dean on the for sale townhomes. We've got a rendering of each of the type of
building. This building is the building that goes along the back side, the north side of the hillt And it's a 2
11
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1995
bedroom loft. And part of the reason that Dean was comfortable with going with the 8 x 10 deck, which was
questioned, is that there's also a four season porch inside off of that deck so he felt that there was enough area
of indoor/outdoor use so that he was comfortable with that size deck. Also, in the back elevation, one thing that
we've been able to do with the townhomes over the previous rental, was to make most of the back side of the
building appear to be two stories. Most of the roof line is two stories whereas the previous project was three
stories tall, and then we do have some dormer areas that go up to the three stories which was where the second
floor bedroom occurs. So these units have a master bedroom, bath on the main level and a bedroom and loft on
the second level. :rhen this building is the building that's more the interior building. It's a little smaller
building. It's two bedrooms on the second level and again on the rear, because these are also walkouts as well,
because of the terrain, we've kept the basic type to two stories and then a roof sloping up so the three story area
of the bedrooms on the back side tuck under the roof. And as well as the front. Keeping the roof, trying to
keep a lower roof line carried along the street and then the two story part of the building set back from the
street. If you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them.
Mayor Chmiel: Just for my information in regards to either the Monterey or the Afton. What's the cost on each
of these?
Dean Johnson: We're looking at $135,000.00 for the Afton and then the Monterey would be $150...
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Does Council have any other questions? Thank you.
Kirk Velett: Bill Dolan, who's the civil engineer...
Bill Dolan: My name is Bill Dolan. I'm the consulting engineer on the project. I think I'll take this one down.
I might just start with the tree preservation plan and just simply state that the tree preservation plan does meet
your ordinance. The present coverage is, the canopy coverage is 37%. After we take out the trees and...I think
xve'll be 25%. Now that meets the ordinance. Then xve are allowed to put some back. After we put the trees
back in the landscape plan, we go back to 44% coverage, which is more than the average so... We do take out
one significant tree that we did not take out in the previous plan, and that's this tree. This is the landscape plan
and I think the only point of controversy here was the...privacy and we feel that these people, if these buildings
here and here, that they should screen and their garages are up on top of the hill and they're exposed on this
side and they're a distance of 25 to 35 feet back from that road. And they're up a little bit above the road by a
distance of from 2 to probably 6 feet. And they are...and we felt that we could put in a little privacy fence by
their patio... No:v these units, I guess that's...they do not have a deck and they have a patio that...so that's their
only outside area that they can use. And we think they're entitled to some privacy. Now perhaps we got carried
away a little bit with the size and we've agreed that we could cut that down. The fences are staggered. They're
just at the patios here, here, here, here, and here. There are hedges in front and trees on the side and so on, and
they do stagger along the road as the units pull for~vard and back from the road. They could be cut down, as I
mentioned, because we need the walkout to cover the entire patio and we would have to do just enough to cover
the windoxvs. The walkout windows behind. And then the 8 foot fence would do that. These are 16... And
then other than that, all of the engineering recommendations and everything are all acceptable...
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, thank you. Any questions?
Councilwoman Dockendorf: I have a question about, at the last meeting there were some concerns that the
current stakes were for the old plan. Have those been changed?
12
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1995
Bill Dolan: Yes. As a matter of fact Sharmin shoxved them. Do you xvant to put that up again Sharmin? It's a
bit little hard to see here but originally we had a 6 unit building that came across here and these t~vo units were
lifted up and attached right here like this. They were attached to this building and then the other thing we did
is, we pulled the building, this building comer back about 6 feet from where it was so this actually moved back
6 feet. But at any rate, this building was attached which would have put this comer somewhere in this vicinity
which is right underneath these two trees that sit here, and of course we wouldn't have been able to save those
trees. And when we went with the owners, they suggested that, if it was possible if we could stake the comers
of the building. Well we told the surveyor to go out and do that. In the interim, we met with the staff and we
came up with different ideas and so on and we decided to take this building apart and move it up the hill a little
bit. Well, the stakes stayed in in the field where the surveyor had put it. The stake is incorrect but the trees
will be saved and you can see the difference here is almost, oh it's about 30 or more feet that the building is
away from the tree.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Okay. So the stakes are still wrong?
Bill Dolan: The stakes are still wrong. They haven't been changed, that's right~ Yes. But that shows what
happened.
Councilxvoman Dockendorf: Okay, thank you.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, any other questions?
Councilman Berquist: Can we just address the fence real quickly, as far as covenants. What type of covenants
are you going to have relative to the maintenance and use of a fence as a, and obviously the covenants it's going
to say the fence has to remain in good repair and expound on that as far as using it for...storage.
Bill Dolan: ...isn't that right Dean?
Dean Johnson: It's covered by the Homeowners Association documents and in those documents the exterior of
the building, the walks, the drives, the exterior fences, all of that is maintained or covered by the Association.
They, well myself initially...starting the dues, hiring the maintenance company to do...
Councilman Berquist: And using the area behind the fence for instance as a storage area, is?
Dean Johnson: Any storage outside is prohibited. There's a section in there, not only that I put in there...it was
a recommendation that the city staff made to the association...prohibiting boat storage, no exterior storage, no
RV's...are already in the documents and are outlawed or illegal...
Councilman Berquist: Okay.
Bill Dolan: Would it be safe to say that as, just as the landscaping is maintained, the fences will be
maintained?
Dean Johnson: That's very fair to say...
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Any other questions? Thank you.
13
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1995
Bill Dolan: Thank you very much.
Mayor Chmiel: Well we've heard from the developers. Is there somebody wishing to address Council at this
time?
Tim Anderson: I guess I want to say first of all that.
Mayor Chmiel: Would you please just state your name and your address.
Tim Anderson: Oh, I'm sorry. My name's Tim Anderson, 7550 Canyon Curve. We're relatively happy with the
townhomes, the way they've been designed and the landscape plans appear to be adequate. We're of course
going to be xvatching the trees...and hope the city will also, as construction proceeds. I guess I want to bring up
one point about the senior housing. I spoke to several of you about the large, or potentially massive buildings
that may become. I got a chance to look at the plans this morning. It's a 4 to 5 story building, depending on
what angle you're looking at and so it obviously is larger, or higher than, as far as I kno~v, any other building in
Chanhassen and it's on a hill, and I want to bring up a point that several people made here about the renderings.
Being able to visualize xvhat goes on out there and that's very important to us. I made, you have to excuse my
art but I made my own rendering today at work. Just to give you an idea of the angle from my house,
photograph. I know it looks terrible but that's, not only are we looking at the north face but also the west face
of the building. That's essentially the building corners are about where the plan shows...when we ,,vent out and
my son and I measured the corners from the previous concept plans. The height is plus or minus, I don't kno~v.
But that's generally what we'll be looking out of our dining room xvindow and as you can see, we're really
concerned about xvhat it's going to look like. It's going to be big and I would ask that before, even the Planning
Commission meeting next week, that some image rendering of the building be done so that myself and my
neighbors can comment on really what it's going to look like. It's very difficult for a lot of people to see what,
in a one or two dimensional drawing what it's going to look like on a hill. You need to see the angles. You
need to see the landscaping. The retaining walls, which there will be quite a few of them as I understand. So I
would ask that, I don't knoxv if the Council can do anything about that but, I don't 'know, that rendering be done
from our angle. From the Saddlebrook subdivision and also wherever else the city may feel interest. Thank
you.
Mayor Chmiel: Thanks. Is there anyone else wanting to address this? If not, xve'll bring it back to Council.
Steve, do you have anything more to add than what you've already said?
Councilman Berquist: Well I just xvant to make certain of what we're being asked to do this evening. We're
being asked to change the density. The concept plans that are in our packets for the senior housing, specifically
this one is, I mean xvhere does this all fit in? We're not approving, we're not necessarily approving that
drawing?
Sharmin A1-Jaff: No.
Councilman Berquist: We're simply approving the site for higher density and senior housing. What ends up
here in terms of how it looks, how it fits on the property.
Sharmin Al-Jarl: You're not approving that.
Councilman Berquist: We're not dealing xvith that at all right now?
14
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1995
Sharmin A1-Jaff: No.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: We're not even approving the fact that it's going to be senior housing. We're just
approving the density.
Sharmin A1-Jaff: Correct.
Councilman Berquist: Just approving the density change. I just don't want to get into a position 2 weeks from
now, 4 weeks from now where we say, well you know you've already approved this.
Sharmin A1-Jaff: No. You're not approving senior housing at this point. You're just allocating density to that
site.
Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, this hasn't really gone yet to Planning Commission.
Councilman Berquist: The building itself?.
Mayor Chmiel: That's correct.
Sharmin A1-Jaff: It will come before you in the form of a site plan review and that's when you would have the
chance to vote on it.
Councilman Berquist: Who's the architectural firm, do you 'know?
Mayor Chmiel: Ashworth and Ashworth. No.
Sharmin A1-Jaff: Through Dunbar Development.
Councilman Berquist: Through Dunbar? Alright.
Mayor Chmiel: Colleen?
Councilwoman Dockendorf: No, I have no further comments.
Mayor Chmiel: Michael.
Councilman Mason: What are we going to do about the fencing? I guess that's my only. You know. !
understand why the Planning Commission doesn't want any fencing there, and everything else being equal, !
think I'd tend to agree with them on that. Although I think the point is well raised about the need for
immediate privacy. I like the idea of, I would not be in favor of a continuous fence there and I clearly see that's
not. How high is it right now?
Bill Dolan: It's 6 feet.
Councilman Mason: But do you see a problem with lowering that to 4?
Bill Dolan: Well, it'd be 4 or 5.
15
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1995
Councilman Mason: Yeah. You 'know people driving by have the right now to be offended I guess, but
certainly the other side of that is, I would certainly xvant some sort of privacy if I ,,vas living in those so I'm
okay with the shorter, smaller fence. I don't have any trouble with that.
Mayor Chmiel: Yeah I think really the main concern basically I think is, what mine was, is the maintenance
and the upkeep because fences can look tacky after a period of time. But that's what the association and that
should probably take care of it.
Councilman Mason: Yeah. I certainly concur with what Steve is saying. I mean we are not dealing with what
the senior housing is going to look like tonight, and I think everyone needs to be really clear on that. But yeah
this, let's do something with the fence and move on with it.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, Mark.
Councilman Senn: Fence wise I don't have a problem with the 6 foot fence. I like the new approach with the
combined landscaping and fence. You knoxv I think from a cost standpoint, over the years what's going to
happen is the Association is going to get rid of the fence once the vegetation matures anyway because the wood
fence will become more and more costly to maintain so I think it will solve itself but I guess in the interim I
don't object to that fence as proposed to give some privacy there. Especially with the landscaping beefed up
adjacent to it. I guess, Sharmin I have a question I guess. Is there a reason why xve really need to act on the
density for the senior housing part tonight? Can xve carve it up and leave that an open issue? I'm real
uncomfortable saying we're going to say that 70 units per acre.
Councilman Berquist: You can't because your overall density changes. You've got 121 units for that piece of
land.
Councilman Senn: I understand. And I'm just saying, is there a way? Well here's my concern. Let's say
something happens and xve don't end up with senior housing there. Do you want 70 units per acre there of non
senior housing?
Councilxvoman Dockendorf: Isn't that a maximum though2
Sharmin Al-Jarl: Correct. You're putting a cap, yes.
Councilman Senn: So xve can control that under that number wherever we want and somebody's not going to
come back to us and say, well legally you have to give me 70 because that's what you approved in a PUD?
Councilxvoman Dockendorf: If we sold the property?
Roger Knutson: I think xve can clarify the language and make it clear...
Councilman Senn: Okay. If we could do that, I'd be then very comfortable xvith that because I think that's
getting ahead of our decision process right no~v. Other than that, nothing.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, Colleen.
16
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1995
Councilwoman Dockendorf: I'm unclear as to what the consensus is on the fence. From my point of view, I'd
just as soon that they reduced it to an 8 foot. Increase the vegetation around it and perhaps reduce it 5 feet.
Mark, I heard you say that you were okay with 16.
Councilman Senn: You know looking at it from a perspective of a patio out there and the road and I'm looking
at it the new situation when you're planting the landscaping, an 8 foot fence is going to give you essentially no
privacy and 5 feet tall, you're going to be able to stand there and watch everything over it anyway. To me the
scale, if that was a continuous fence I think I'd have a fair number of objections to it. The way it's broken up
now and the landscaping's worked into it, I really don't have an objection to it because I think it's going to be
the best of both worlds for both people. It's going to, ! think it's going to provide some kind of breaks for the
time being...
Mayor Chmiel: A lot of those, and I've looked at difference places in Arizona with same situations that have
occurred. The fences seem to still remain and that's all part of it. They don't like to see those things gone. So
consequently I think that, depending upon tanning, whatever they're going to do. Having a picnic. I don't think
people are going to be jumping up and rubbernecking over the top of that thing. It'd be quite obvious, number
one. Number two, I think limiting it to that 5 feet in height as was suggested I thought was a good idea~
Councilman Mason: Well they're already 2 to 4 feet higher than the road anyway.
Mayor Chmiel: That's right, yes.
Councilman Senn: Oh okay, are they?
Bill Dolan: Yes they are. So if you were on the road, they'd be up.
Councilman Berquist: But isn't the goal to barrier the sliding glass door? The patio door as well as the patio?
Bill Dolan: Yes.
Councilman Senn: But you're still doing that if the road's 2 feet down. Even at that distance..~
Councilman Berquist: I just don't want to get to the point where a piece of fence looks like a piece of fence.
You know you can have an 8 foot by 6 foot or 8 foot piece of fence that just looks like an unfinished
landscaping article. I don't suspect that you'd want that.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: You're saying if it's not wide enough, it looks half done?
Councilman Berquist: If it's not wide enough, it looks half done. That's what I'm saying.
Councilman Senn: Yeah, I don't have a problem with the size...because otherwise we're just kind of building a
fence with no purpose at all.
Councilman Mason: Is that rendering, assuming a 16 foot fence?
Bill Dolan: Yes sir it is.
17
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1995
Councilman Mason: How wide are the patios2 I'm sorry. Like 30 feet? 34.9
Bill Dolan: The patios here?
Councilman Mason: Yeah.
Bill Dolan: Oh they're...
Councilman Mason: How xvide are the units approximately?
Bill Dolan: 28 feet. About 28 feet between each fence.
Dean Johnson: The lot is 28 feet...
Mayor Chmiel: Any other discussion? Hearing none, I'd like to have a motion.
Councilman Senn: I'll try it out. I'd like to move approval of the planned unit development amendment, do we
have to do these separately, or do it all together? As well as the site plan. Approval of preliminary plat. We
are doing final?...allowing the fences 16 feet but only 5 feet in height so long as the landscaping as approved
on...and secondly...as it relates to the 70 units per acre...
Councilman Mason: I'll second whatever.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. If I could make one more part on that, which I think is just a housekeeping kind of
thing. I'd like to see those streets cleaned a little more often than xvhat they have been, especially the Santa
Vera. That has been pretty much a mucky street for a long time and it doesn't take too much to clean that. So
with that motion and a second.
Councilman Senn moved, Councilman Mason seconded to approve an amendment to PUD #92-3, the
preliminary plat and final plat to subdivide 8.5 acres into 51 lots and one outlot and Site Plan Review #95-3 as
shown on the plans dated February 16, 1996 and February 21, 1995, and subject to the following conditions:
1. Change Lot 52 to Outlot A.
Amend the PUD contract to permit the transfer of density within the development of Oak Pond to allow
the construction of a 70 unit Senior Housing Building.
The townhome units shall conform to the design and architecture as proposed by the applicant in their
attached renderings. Introduce some variation among buildings through the shape of windows, adding
louvers, shifting entry xvays, adding dormers, and color. Introduce new elements to break up the large
roof span on Building B. Utility Meter Boxes (electric, water, gas, etc) shall be camouflaged by boxes or
landscaping.
A cross-access easement and maintenance agreement shall be conveyed to all the lots for use of the
private street and utilities.
5. Park and trail dedication fees shall be paid in lieu of parkland dedication as required by ordinance.
18
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1995
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.
17.
18.
Plans shall provide one visitor parking space per 6 units.
Tree protection fencing shall be placed around the stand of trees to minimize impact during construction.
Protected trees lost due to construction must be replaced on a 1.2 canopy basis in accordance with a plan
approved by staff.
"No Parking Fire Lane" signs shall be installed along Kimberly Lane and Kelly Court pursuant to City
Policy #06-1991.
A ten (10) foot clear space must be maintained around all fire hydrants.
The applicant shall enter into a PUD agreement/development contract with the City and provide the
necessary financial security to guarantee compliance with the conditions of the final plat approval process.
Submit soil reports to the Inspections Division. This should be done prior to issuance of any building
permits.
Erosion control fencing shall be installed and maintained as shown on the grading plan prior to site
grading until the site is fully revegetated and removal is authorized by the city~ The applicant should be
aware that additional erosion control may be required behind the curbs of Kimberly Lane and Kelly
Court.
All areas disturbed during site development shall be immediately restored with seed and mulch, sod
and/or wood fiber blanket within two weeks after site grading is completed unless the City Best
Management Practice Handbook planting dates dictate otherwise. All disturbed slopes of 3'1 or greater
shall be restored xvith sod or seed and wood fiber blanket.
The developer shall construct the utility and street improvements in accordance with the City's latest
edition of Standard Specifications and Detail Plates. Upon completion of the street and utility
improvements, the applicant shall supply the City with as-built, mylar drawings.
The developer shall obtain all of the necessary permits from the Watershed District~ DNR, MWCC~
Minnesota Department of Health and comply with all conditions of the permits.
The developer will be responsible for maintaining the existing storm sewer sediment basins within Phases
I and II until the entire development is built out and all areas are fully revegetated. Upon completion of
Phase III of the development, the sedimentation basin located in the northeast comer of the site shall be
abandoned and the storm sewer extended to the east pond.-
The applicant shall provide the City with updated storm drainage and ponding calculations for the entire
development including Phases I and I! for review and approval prior to recording of the final plat.
The applicant shall be responsible for restoration of the City's boulevard, including but not limited to
landscaping, sidewalks, curbs and gutters and street lights along Santa Vera Drive. Security shall be
included in the PUD agreement to guarantee boulevard restoration.
19
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1995
19. All building units beyond 150 feet from the intersection of Santa Vera Drive and Kelly Court shall be
sprinklered for fire protection specifically for Lots 28-36 inclusive and Lots 41-43 inclusive.
20. Landscaping shall be rearranged along the east lot line of Lot 52 in a fashion that xvill allow access to the
easterly ponding area by City maintenance crews.
21. The applicant shall submit to the City for review and approval haul routes for exporting of material from
the site.
22.
All of the utility and street improvements will be privately owned and maintained by the homeowners
association. The covenants/association by-laws shall incorporate language notifying the homeowners of
this responsibility.
23.
The lighting shall not exceed the maximum intensity permitted by ordinance at the property boundaries.
All light fixtures must be directed on site. No light fixture may shine directly onto adjacent properties
located to the north.
24. The size of the decks shall be limited to 80 square feet.
25. Conservation easement shall be established beyond 30 feet of the rear of the buildings along the north
side of the development.
26. Privacy fencing and/or screening around patios or decks within the development shall be landscaped and
shall be used to provide permanent screening for the patio area.
27.
The applicant shall guarantee the trees proposed to be preserved for 2 years. Should any of these trees
die, they xvill be replaced by the applicant per city staff's approval. The applicant shall escroxv 20% of
the landscape cost to guarantee replacement.
and Councilman Senn moved, Councilman Mason seconded to approve the construction plans and specifications
for Oak Ponds 3rd Addition dated April 3, 1995, prepared by Meadowood Engineering, Inc. and the
PUD/Development Contract dated April 10, 1995, subject to the following conditions:
The applicant enter into the PUD/Development Contract and supply the City with a cash escrow or letter
or credit in the amount of $105,100.00 and pay an administration fee of $18,948.00.
The applicant's engineer shall work with city staff in revising the construction plans to meet city
standards.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
20
r
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1995
PUD AMENDMENT FOR CHANHASSEN BUSINESS CENTER TO SUBDIVIDE OUTLOT C INTO 7
OFFICE/MANUFACTURING/WAREHOUSE LOTS AND ONE OUTLOT; LOCATED WEST OF AUDUBON
ROAD~ SOUTH OF TI-IE TWIN CITIES & WESTERN RAILROAD~ AND NORTH OF LAKE DRIVE WEST~
CHANHASSEN BUSINESS CENTER SECOND ADDITION; ENGELHARDT AND ASSOCIATES.
Public Present:
Name Address
David L. Obee
Dennis W. Saari
2060 Majestic Way
Wm. Engelhardt & Associates
Sharmin A1-Jaff: Just a brief background on this application. In January of '92 the City Council approved the
preliminary plat for Chanhassen Business Center which included 12 lots and two outlots, The area of the entire
site is 93.7 acres in size. The ultimate development of this proposal was to have a total of 700,000 square feet
of building area, with a mix of 20% office, 25% industrial and 55% warehouse. The proposed._locates, there
are four parcels as shown in the preliminary plat. Replat that into 7 parcels. All of those parcels meet the
minimum requirements of the zoning ordinance as far as lot area, depth, width. The building would be able to
fit on all sites and meet the PUD setback requirements. Another change would be the location of a retention
pond. The original plan indicated that the pond would be located south of Outlot A. In this proposal, the pond
would be...further to the north. It will minimize grading on the site~ Again it's a very simple replat. Staff is
recommending approval of this application with conditions outlined in the report. Thank you.
Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. Is the applicant here this evening?
William Saari: My name is William Saari and...and I'd be happy to answer any questions that the City Council
would have.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, thank you. Are there any questions that Council may havel I think as Sharmin
indicated, it's a very simple platting and some of these things I think we even discussed back when but we
didn't 'know exactly what those balance of lots were going to be as far as size and so forth. I think we do know
what it is and xvhat it's going to consist of. Is there any discussion by Council in regard to anything? Is there
anyone in the audience wishing to address it?
Councilman Senn: I'd move approval.
Councilman Berquist: I'm going to ask one quick question but I won't hold that up. What's the interest like in
the commercial property market these days in Chanhassen?
(The answer to Councilman Berquist's question was not picked up by the tape.)
Councilman Berquist: This is being driven by sales I would guess, right?
Audience: Yes.
Councilman Berquist: Okay. That's my only question.
2I
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1995
Mayor Chmiel: Motion's on the floor.
Councilman Mason: Second.
Mayor Chmiel: Moved and seconded. Any other discussion?
Councilman Senn moved, Councilman Mason seconded to approve the PUD amendment and preliminary plat of
7 lots and one outlot for Chanhassen Business Center Second Addition as shown on the plans dated February
21, 1995 and subject to the following conditions:
The applicant should provide the city with updated drainage and ponding calculations for Phase I and the
overall development designed for a 10 year storm event and ponding calculations which document the
ponds will retain a 100 year storm event, 24 hour duration and will discharge in accordance with city's
Surface Water Management runoff rate. Final pond design standards shall be in accordance with the city's
SWMP. The pond slope shall be 3:1 with a 10:1 bench at the normal water elevation for the first one
foot depth of xvater or 4:1 side slopes overall.
.
Type III erosion control fence shall be installed and maintained along the entire westerly perimeter of the
construction limits adjacent to the Bluff Creek corridor. Type I erosion control fence may be used on all
other areas.
All areas disturbed during site development shall be immediately restored xvith seed and disc mulch, sod,
or wood fiber blanket within 2 weeks of site grading. Unless the city's Best Management Practices
Handbook planting date dictates otherwise. All areas disturbed with slopes of 3:1 or greater shall be
restored with sod or seed and wood fiber blanket. In any case, all disturbed areas must be restored before
November 15, 1995.
The developer shall construct the utility and street improvements in accordance with the latest edition of
the city's Standards and Specifications and prepare final plans and specifications for city review and
formal approval by the City Council in conjunction with the final plat approval process.
The developer shall obtain all the necessary permits from the watershed district, DNR, Army Corps of
Engineers, MWCC, Mn Dept. of Health, and comply xvith all conditions of the permits.
The developer shall incorporate street lights into the street construction plans for Lake Drive West and the
proposed streets. Street lights shall be installed at 150-250 foot intervals. The street lights shall be
designed consistent with the existing lighting on Audubon Road (low profile rectilinear-rectangular style
lighting fixture with 250 watt sodium pressure lamps mounted on a 25 foot high cortin steel pole).
Placement of the street lights shall be approved by the City.
The developer shall be responsible for maintaining the storm sewers and storm water retention pond until
the entire development is "built-on".
The developer shall be responsible for xvater quantity fees for this phase of the development. Final
calculation of water quantity fees will be based on the actual storm xvater calculations to be reviewed by
the city. These fees will be payable prior to final plat being recorded.
22
r
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1995
.
The installation of traffic signals at the intersection of Trunk Highway 5 and Audubon Road is expected
in the next few years. The developer shall be responsible or share the local cost participation of this
signal on a percentage basis based upon traffic generation from full development of this site in relation to
the total traffic volume of Audubon Road. Security to guarantee payment for the developer's share of this
traffic signal for the entire development (Phases I and II) will be required.
10. The existing storm sewers in Lake Drive West which discharge into the temporary pond will need to be
modified to convey the runoff to the new permanent pond on Outlot A (Second Addition).
11. Security to guarantee easements and future construction of trails should be included in the development
contract for the Second Addition.
12. Park and trail fees shall be paid consistent with city ordinances. Surety/letter of credit for the future trail
shall be placed as a condition in the development contract for the Second Addition.
13. Fire hydrants shall be located as per the city Fire Marshal's requirement.
14. Street names shall be submitted for review and approval by Public Safety.
15.
All required perimeter landscaping shall be completed with the approval of the first submitted site plan in
the Second Addition. Surety for this landscaping shall be placed in the development contract for the
Second Addition.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
CONSIDER CREATING AN ORDINANCE REGULATING PAWNBROKERS.
Public Present:
Name Address
Bert Alexander
Robert Schlichter
8501 County Road 15, Maple Plain
8501 County Road 15, Maple Plain
Todd Gerhardt: Included in your packet is a letter from William C. Pribble, Jr, an attorney representing
Capstone Auto Paxvnbrokers who have sho~vn an interest in locating their business into Chanhassen. However,
part of the financial...is that the city must have an ordinance in place regulating pawnbrokers... Roger has
worked on ordinances in a couple other cities. I attached the City of Burnsville's as an example. The City
Council should not feel that it has to pass this ordinance but not having an ordinance would not keep
pawnbrokers out of Chanhassen...If the City Council is considering looking at adopting an ordinance_.direct
both Planning Commission and the Public Safety Commission to review this ordinance and other examples...
and also look at where pawnbrokers should be located in the eity...zoning districts. And also how to regulate
these businesses...open to any questions that you may have. I'm not a big expert in pawnbroking businesses...
Councilman Mason: I do have a question to ask our City AttOrney. On the Burnsville ordinance here it says,
under application content, number 1. If the applicant is a natural person. Well, what if the applicant....9 I'm
sorry.
23
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1995
Mayor Chmiel: Roger. Tell us a little bit about this, other than what is contained in the one that we have from
the City of Burnsville.
Roger Knutson: ...police departments are very concerned with pawnbroking because if you've gol;...and these
regulations are tight...and it's by no means fullproof but then...by computer it's a lot easier now. Then you've
got to check all the items received against all the reported stolen items...call people up. It takes a lot of time.
...Minneapolis has a full time paxvnshop detail...
Mayor Chmiel: Does Council have any questions?
Councilman Berquist: Well one more question for Roger. I was stumped by the, why, the cost of licensing...all
over the map. And yet you've got...up to $50,000.00. Plymouth isn't even listed on the cities. I doubt they
have any at 50 grand but.
Todd Gerhardt: I attempted to get names of pawnbrokers that...
Roger Knutson: One reason, to point out why the difference in licensing fee is, the licensing fee is not
supposed to make money for a community. It goes to recoup your expenses. If, depending on what kind of
ordinance you have, what kind of monitoring your have, the city's expenses can be very high. Theoretically you
need one full time employee to monitor every single pawnshop... An officer in Burnsville...For each pawnshop
needs one full time employee to monitor it...but if you want to do that, then you'd look at...Or you can do
nothing. You can just license it and forget about it and not monitor what's coming in and out and then your
costs would be very modest and...
Councilman Mason: Is this the kind of deal that xve can set a conditional license fee the first year and see what
transpires and then adjust it accordingly?
Roger Knutson: Yes. That'd be...by the time your second year comes along, you'll 'know what your actual
costs are and have a better handle on it.
Mayor Chmiel: Were there any questions that you might have of the gentlemen that are here, as Todd had
mentioned?
Councilman Berquist: I'd like to 'know the details a little bit about an auto pawnbroker.
Bert Alexander: My name's Bert Alexander. I own Capstone Auto Pawnbrokers. We pawn titles of
automobiles. We don't physically take the vehicle...and xve give money and a pawn ticket against the title of the
automobile... I understand the situation that you brought up...we only take the title of a registered vehicle. We
check that with the Motor Vehicle Bureau. The driver must have a license and that vehicle must be insured.
We operate like an Allstate Insurance office, at an office building and that's our business...do any kind of
pawning, I could just move into any...and then you'd have to change the law...The State gave the municipalities
the right to license. The State doesn't want any part of it...Although we operate in areas now where we're not
licensed...And again, we only deal with titles of vehicles. We don't deal with anything else. Every vehicle has
to be insured. Every driver...has to be licensed...
Mayor Chmiel: What is the rate of interest that you normally charge2
24
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1995
Bert Alexander: 25% a month. The local pawnbroker down the street gets 35%. We are reducing...
Councilman Berquist: And based on value, I mean if I brought a $10,000.00 vehicle into you...
Bert Alexander: Basically there's an MBA book we use as a guide...wholesale value° We realize that there's
going to be some...
Councilman Berquist: How do you recover vehicles?
Bert Alexander: We recover vehicles if you don't make the payments...We don't want to be in the car business.
Mayor Chmiel: We have two trucks that move rather quickly~ Okay, thank you.
Bert Alexander: We're the only pawnbroker...drop off a piece of jewelry. Give a price on it and say okay, take
the cash and the jewelry. In essence xvhat we do is you bring us the car. We look at the car and we say okay...
Councilman Berquist: If we go ahead and start work on passing this, obviously you'll come in and make, and
open up a place someplace. Where else did you say?
Bert Alexander: We're in Eden Prairie right now and we're in St. Cloud. We're in Rochester, Minnesota. We're
in Duluth. We're in Maplewood Mall in Maplewood. We're in Atlanta~ Georgia.
Councilman Senn: Why do you operate as a pawnbroker rather than a lender?
Bert Alexander's answer could not be heard on the tape.
Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. Any other?
Councilman Senn: I'd really like to see us get ahead of the game on this and get an ordinance put in place. I
think Roger, what he's presented as far as Burnsville goes~ is pretty extensive and a good ordinance when you
back it up against...I'm familiar with. There's a few things I'd like to...pas, s those comments onto Roger if we're
going to undertake drafting one. A few primary elements that we'd like to see is~ from a municipal standpoint
these things are crossed with expense all the way through. You need an application...significant one up front
because you need to do some fairly extensive investigations on people or people. It could be quite a number of
people because some of these things come in under limited partnerships and everything else, it requires literally
checking on quite a number of people. One thing I didn't see in here Roger that I'm used to seeing a surety
bond as far as they will comply with the ordinance. So I mean have the annual fee but you also have the surety
bond that stays in place as long as they're in business... I've had a fair amount of experience with this in a near-
by municipality where...Hopkins and Hopkins went all the way to four pawnshops here in the last couple of
years. And it fluctuated anywhere from 0 to 4, depending on how quickly they go in and out of business but
it's real interesting to sit around and talk to the police department because they literally had to add full time
staff. Effectively one full time administrative staff person for every 2 pawnshops is basically what they told me
in Hopkins. And that's the amount of time it takes to keep up with the checks and the police and everything
else...
Roger Knutson: There is one bright side. You've got...
25
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1995
Councilman Senn: And you know the Hopkins ordinance is not that different than the Burnsville one here and
that is a real bright side to it. You know from a fee standpoint, I think what Hopkins ended up doing is
Hopkins ended up by just doing a $7,500.00 fee but Hopkins is in a little bit of a unique situation. By the time
they undertook the ordinance, they already had one pawnshop in place and knew they were coming so they
figured out their costs that way. I would hope that we would look at a fee schedule more like $30,000.00 for
the first one and we'll reimburse 15 when the second comes in. Because we'll get the other half back with that
first one. With the second one, I asked the Hopkins Police Chief, as far as the two of them, if they can get by
with kind of part of a person on one and he said no. He said basically there's efficiencies between the two that
we can do two with one full time administrative staff person but you'd still need the full time administrative
staff person to do one, which is going back a little bit to what Roger was saying so...approach they did and staff
because they figured if they xvere ever going to get one, they're probably going to get one and...staff person as
well as all of the overhead and everything else that went with it and that's where they came up with the...but
again, I think it's real important that we get out in front of this and as I understand it, Roger there's no way to
delineate between types of pawnbrokers. I mean a pawnbroker's license is a pa~vnbroker's license .... right. And
there's no delineation between whether they just do this or just do that and what may just do this today, may do
these other things tomorrow and there's no way to control that effectively. You -know even with the ordinance
there's no way to do it effectively...
Mayor Chmiel: Yeah I think I agree to a certain point. I have a little different figure in my mind. I was at
$40,000,00...
Councilman Senn: Well I said 30 and we get 15 back from the...but again I think you need the surety bond and
stuff up front because I'd like to see a ten grand surety bond and a $1,000.00 or $500.00 application fee to cover
that initial investigation too and stuff. I mean these things get really wild...Part of it was owned by a family
which means like 10 family members and...do an investigation of ever3, one.
Roger Knutson: There's a lot of interesting things...
Mayor Chmiel: Yeah I think some of those things that you're saying is probably true. I'd like to do a little
more checking as well in regards to some of these other cities that you had mentioned, such as Eden Prairie and
St. Cloud, Rochester, Maplexvood, and even Atlanta, Georgia.
Bert Alexander: Well I can help you with any documents. I have all their documents and everything for...to
help in any way, I'd like to.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, good.
Councilman Berquist: How long has Capstone been in business Mr. Alexander?
Bert Alexander: Since August of '94. August 15th.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Is there any other discussion that we'd like to do on this'?. I don't know if I want to see
us go into a motion on this particular item at this particular time, until I do a little more checking as well. I
don't know the rest of the Council's feelings there.
Councilman Senn: Well couldn't xve do some checking but at the same time couldn't Roger kind of get going
on drafting something? I mean it is a lengthy process...
26
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1995
Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, we have to go through the process and I think we do have to have something pulled
together to have xvithin the city for this kind of a proposal. And along with that I think that there's still some
concerns that I have too in regard to total dollars for licensing, but I think that's something that.
Councilman Senn: We can work those in.
Mayor Chmiel: Right.
Councilman Senn: I'd like to move that we let Roger go ahead and draft, get going on drafting an ordinance for
consideration and when it comes back, we'll have plenty of chances to go through with changes and do things in
the meantime so, I'd like to get the process going.
Mayor Chmiel: Is there a second to that motion?
Councilwoman Dockendorf: I'll second it. I'm curious as to why staff is recommending we send it to Planning
as xvell as Public Safety.
Mayor Chmiel: Oh! I think that that's true. They should also look at it and also Public Safety should take a
review of this.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: But I don't see the relationship with Planning.
Mayor Chmiel: Well, ~vhere do you.
Couneilxvoman Dockendorf: Put them.
Mayor Chmiel: Where is this located.
Councilman Senn: I thought, I don't think we have a lot to say about that.
·
Roger Knutson: No. Enticing them I don't recommend. Some cities consider making them conditional uses,
but I don't see that. They operate like a retail store.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: They're a business, yeah.
Roger Knutson: There isn't much of a planning issue.
Councilman Senn: Yeah, but the expertise we've got on Public Safety, I'd love to have them look at the
ordinance as xve are too but I'm not sure, my understanding is we can't really influence on the land use that
much so.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: That just holds it up. That's one more step.
Mayor Chmiel: Alright. There's a motion on the floor with a second. Any other discussion?
Councilman Senn moved, Councilwoman Dockendorf seconded to direct the City Attomey to draft an onlinance
regulating pawnbl~kers. Ali voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
27
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1995
CLARIFICATION REGARDING THE CREATION OF A NEW TAX INCREMENT DISTRICT'#4~
BOWLING CENTER~ FRONTIER CENTER AND ANIMAL FAIR BUILDING PROPERTIES.
Don Ashworth: I goofed. This item was really solely one of just authorizing staff to get the information that
you had asked for and by approving this, we're again directed to go out and basically get the same revenue and
expenditure information that you wanted to see. So we're starting to collect that but we'd still like to get this
date set because it gets so far into the future, you might have noticed we had to changed it from whatever it was
set for, May 9th to May 20th. Somewhere in there.
Councilman Senn: Well, Don I'm the one that asked that it be removed last time. I don't think you goofed
because I went back and pulled out the Minutes here just to check. My reason for asking for it to be removed
and Council concurred in was, prior to authorizing the public hearing we'd like to see more definition and
information come to us in relationship to the project and also some estimates of the, what the terms of city
participation would be. What's going to be required in relationship to the project you kno~v from the city or the
HRA, and really decide or look at some of those issues up front before we set the public hearing, because when
we set the public hearing, I mean xve're kind of saying, let's everybody move forward and I think Council is
concurring that, let's look at that first and decide if we're moving forxvard.
Don Ashworth: I should have forewarned Roger that I would ask this question but, the HRA has passed this
out and said, we would like to have City Council hold a public hearing on this item, as required by State law
and prepare a plan so that we've actually got something to adopt. Isn't my understanding correct in that when
that passes out of the HRA with a recommendation that the Council hold a hearing, isn't the proper procedure
then for the Council to hold that hearing and to obtain the information and present that as a part of the hearing?
I mean can the City Council say no, we're not going to do a hearing?
Roger Knutson: I've never heard of that happening. It's usually a matter of routine. You gather the
information and make ),our decision. You're asking can the City Council refuse to have a hearing?
Don Ashworth: Right.
Roger Knutson: I'd have to reviexv the language in the statute. I suppose you can but frankly Don, it'd be very
unusual.
Councilman Senn: Well let me clarify. I mean that's not what I'm asking. What I'm asking is that we wait and
set the public hearing after Council's had a chance to review the information and discuss it, rather than putting
the Council in the same position as the public, seeing it for the first time at a public hearing and then being
asked to consider it and act on it in relationship to the same time that the public is seeing it. I mean we have
something to say about what goes to the public for comment.
Don Ashworth: We can do that. I think that Todd has been working, oh Todd's not here. I 'know that he's
been working on this item for the last couple weeks. I'm guessing that within a week to probably 2 weeks you
should be, we should have most of the revenues side, the expense side. What it is you're going to be
purchasing. What xve would be paying for. What we would be participating in. Number of years that the
district xvould extend. But if we do push it off another 2 weeks, it will again move that May 27th date to June
something. One other thing we're kind of fighting is the legislature. We don't really knoxv what they're going
to be doing.
28
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1995
Todd Gerhardt: We're also fighting the expansion to the hotel. They cannot expand until this district is created
and they're a substantial part of the increment flow to help this project in the future, to help offset the cost to
that project. There's not a lot of...re-using the buildings. They don't create a lot of increment. The hotel
expansion would be a part of this district which does create approximately $120,000.00 additional increment.
That increment.
Don Ashworth: Could we do this Todd? Could we request that the Council officially set the date. Set the May
20, whatever we put in there but then by the time of the next City Council meeting, by the 24th, present what it
was. What it is that we're proposing to present at the public hearing.
Todd Gerhardt: Sure.
Don Ashworth: I mean if the Council wants it modified on the April 24th, we'd still have time to do that before
the May 20th date.
Todd Gerhardt: I'm hoping to have all of the, Ron and Sid are hoping to have all the financials done by this
week. There's just no way we could have it done and trying to get the estimates of all the public improvements
and then private improvements also, and there's just not enough time to get all those numbers, good numbers
together. So I would think that by the end of this week we could even have the numbers.
Don Ashworth: I think our next regular is the 24th.
Councilman Senn: Okay, that works.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. So with that we'll do. Colleen, did you want to say something?
Councilwoman Dockendorf: I'll move approval of the attached resolution.
Councilman Mason: I'll second it.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. It's been motioned with a second to approve the attached resolution.
Resolution #95-44: Councilwoman Dockendorf moved, Councilman Mason seconded to approve the Resolution
calling for a public heating on the creation of Tax Increment District//4. All voted in favor and the motion
carried unanimously.
RECOMMENDATION FROM PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION TO ESTABLISH A TASK FORCE,
PROPOSED PARKI,AND ACQUISmON AND DEVELOPMENT REFERENDUM.
Todd Hoffman: Thank you Mr. Mayor, members of the Council. As you are aware, the Park and Recreation
Commission has been investigating the possibility of a park and recreation open space and trail referendum. On
Tuesday, March 28th, at their regular scheduled meeting, the Park and Recreation Commission unanimously
approved the following motion. Made by Commissioner Andrews and seconded by Commissioner Roeser to
recommend the City Council establish a task force for a proposed parkland acquisition and development
referendum. A recommendation for the composition of that task force was a part of that motion, and that being
eleven members to include the Mayor or City Council member, two members of the Park and Recreation
Commission, a Planning Commission member, Chamber of Commerce representative. I have spoken with
29
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1995
Steven Peterson, the President of the Chan Chamber and he indicated... Then six at large members of the
community being separated geographically. Two to the xvest, two to the central portion of the city, and two in
the southern portion of the city. Staff's suggestion for a time line for this effort has been forwarded to the City
Council. That's starting on May 8th that the City Council would make the appointments of the Task Force
members. Task Force meetings would be held on May 1 lth, 25th and June 8th. June 22nd, the Task Force
would hold it's first public information/input meeting. Following on June 27th, the Task Force would meet with
the Park and Recreation Commission to make sure that they are on track `,vith what the commission has intended
for this venture. July 10th. Those findings `,vould be reviewed with the City Council and then moving on to
two general Task Force meetings on July 13th and 27th. Concluding with an additional public information/input
meeting on August 10th. Park and Recreation Commission and a final review of the Task Force's
recommendations on August 22nd. Then the final review by the City Council on September 4th. Certification
of the ballot and the other necessary housekeeping items, and then a proposal on for a voting day of somewhere
in the neighborhood of September 26th. With this it is recommending that the City Council affirm the
recommendations of the Park and Recreation Commission and move forward in this process. If you would like,
I can go over the events which have led to this point in this recommendation being made to the City Council.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Thank you. Anybody have any questions of Todd2
Councilman Senn: Yeah, I guess I'd like you to do that because I'm confused at this point. You 'know we had
that work session and xve came in here and crawled all over the maps and we talked about that at length and I
thought we all decided that the Park Commission xvas going to in effect do this and identify those alternatives
and come back and then we were going to look at the issue of potentially, if there's a need at that point, or not
at that point, to put together some sort of proof which would go then to help sell the referendum, or whatever.
How you ~vant to view that. But why, I mean now that seems to have all changed because now we're back here
suggesting a task force which is what ,,vas being suggested that night, and we abandoned that idea but nothing's
happened and we're right back to the same idea here several months later.
Todd Hoffman: The Park and Recreation Commission is of the opinion that they pursued the alternatives which
they've been studying for the past, oh 18 months. Acquisition of land in southern Chanhassen. Development of
Bandimere. Expansion to the trail systems and they can continue to mull over and take a look at these issues,
but they really feel that it's important to bring this thing to a conclusion. Appoint a task force. Take a precise
look at the process of identifying parcels of property. There's really very few left within the city of Chanhassen
that are eligible for purchase on a large acreage basis. So instead of continuing the process, which they feel
they have concluded at the Park and Recreation Commission level, they would like to go ahead and ask that the
City Council move this forward. The task force...members who can look at this issue specifically. The Park
and Recreation Commission held a site visit after the last meeting, or prior to that meeting for about 2 hours of
looking over all of the areas within Chanhassen that they are considering recommending the task force take a
look at...
Councilman Senn: So you're saying they have identified the parcels?
Todd Hoffman: Correct. And those parcels have been on the docket, if you will, for some time. They're
looking for the piece of ~vooded property in southern Chanhassen. An additional piece of property...ballfield
development because there's a feeling that Lake Ann.
30
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1995
Councilman Senn: No, no. I understand that Todd. When Ave were crawling around the maps, that was all
identified. I thought the next step ,,vas they were going to go identify some specific pieces of land for us to
look at to fill those needs, and then that's what xvas going to come back to us.
Mayor Chmiel: That's what you're talking about right now, right?
Councilman Senn: Well, I'm concerned. I mean this was many months ago and we were very concerned about
the rate which the land is disappearing and here we are many months later, no further than we were back then.
I was really hoping to see tonight a specific list of parcels that they would like to see us pursue and why and
give us some recommendation so we can decide to go to the next step.
Mayor Chmiel: Well let me, maybe I can just interject a little bit. From what I'm seeing here, I think what
Todd is trying to do is do what the Council's been asking other people to do when they go through an interim
study by involving the total numbers of people that he's basically involving. Maybe I'm wrong with that
assumption but is that what you were really looking at?
Todd Hoffman: The Park and Recreation Commission feels very strongly that this issue should be brought to
the forefront. They have mulled over these pieces of property. We have checked into the price of that...piece of
property. Do you want to go 100% public and involve the specific identification~ there's very fe~v pieces of
wooded property in Chanhassen left to purchase and we looked at those that evening. They're out there.
They're an abundant resources. The same with flat property to put ballfields on. There's only one or two
locations left. The Bluff Creek corridor is the other location which they want to take a look at preserving a
portion of that property. Other than those 3 things, development of Bandimere, which is about $800,000.00 to
$1 million project...and then the funding of some key trail segments throughout the city, which they have an
idea which those are but they've...feasibility of each one of those. Those would be the items that the Park
Commission would be asking the task force to look at.
Councilman Senn: Don, my concern is this. My concern is if we put together this big task force now and go
out and get this many people involved, including people from the different parts of the city, we're going to build
a constituency to come back with a recommendation to us on all this stuff to be done. Fiscally we may not be
able to afford it. I think that puts us in a hell of a position. I think the Park and Recreation Commission, this
is what I said that night. The Park and Recreation Commission ought to identify the parcels. We ought to put
together the costs. This Council ought to look at it from a policy fiscal standpoint, in terms of setting some
parameters and what we should do or not do, and then go back to the next step which is implementation. Going
to a referendum and then developing a constituency to support that. I think we're going to get ourselves in
some real problems doing this, excuse me, backwards. Because I think we're going to have some pretty dam
upset people by the time these recommendations come into us and somebody tums around and says we can't
afford all this.
Councilman Mason: But if this is a referendum, it's not an issue of whether we think we can afford it or not.
It's an issue of ~vhether all of the citizens of Chanhassen think we can afford it or not. I mean I think I know
what.
Councilman Senn: We have bonding limits Mike. We cannot just simple bond to infintismal levels because it's
going to be paid back on a referendum.
Councilman Mason: Well I understand that.
31
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1995
Councilman Senn: I mean we have limitations we have to live within too.
Councilxvoman Dockendorf: And not only that but we make the decision as to xvhether it goes to referendum.
Councilman Senn: Or not, yeah.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: I think clearly something we need to get moving on it and the decision was made
that evening that we had wanted Park and Rec to take it and we could look at it and determine the feasibility of
it. I'm not so concerned with a constituency being developed and us disappointing them. We can handle that
by saying, this is a study task force you 'know. These are our limitations. We make no guarantees that we're
even going to go to referendum. But if this is the way Park and Rec feels that, I mean is it work load that the
entire Park and Rec doesn't want to, you know. We made a very clear decision that evening that Park and Rec
needed to look at this issue and bring it back to Council. I agree with Mark that we're going against what we
decided that night.
Councilman Senn: ...I'd like to see the results.
Todd Hoffman: Sure. I can bring the...bring that list. The problems we have to look out for is that the
example the City of Eden Prairie, their open space referendum. Prior to the referendum they had identified
parcels. Identified costs for those parcels. They did not secure purchase agreements on any of them. Since that
time they have had a very difficult time acquiring those pieces of property because once the referendum passed,
the prices simply.
Mayor Chmiel: Escalated.
Councilman Senn: That's why I like this, the approach we set up in the first place. I think avoids that. I think
this one causes that problem.
Mayor Chmiel: And it could conceivably. Where we could come back with it and finding out what the total
dollars are. Stand back and say.
Todd Hoffman: The total dollars, as has been previously identified, is $4 to $6 million. That list can be put
together and brought to the attention of the City Council for your consideration...Park and Recreation
Commission and the recommendation to go ahead and form this task force. The fast force is at that second tier
of organization which takes the short time frame, precise, direct look at these issues. They are also the work
force that...educates the community about it. It goes out and makes the speaking engagements and makes... If
you're not comfortable moving to that level, I absolutely understand and I can have that list here for you and list
out $4 to $6 million, xvhich they had targeted for identification. You can look at it in a variety of ways. When
Lakeville went through this process, their task force identified $87 million in improvements. The City Manager
xvanted to $2 1/2 and the City Council wanted to authorize 4. So it's always...The Park Commission started, as I
say, a few months ago xvith a lot more improvements on their list...talking about neighborhood park
improvements and doing this and creating shelters and putting up ballfield lights and they focused in on as land
is the most precious thing that the city of Chanhassen has. Let's do an open space referendum. Take a look at
Bandimere, which we have not been able to finance in the past 5 years because it's a $800,000.00 to $1 million
ticket. Put that on there for the voters to consider because they do take a lot of heat over the lack of athletic
spaces...in Chanhassen. They'd like to let the voters vote on it. And then trails are the other issue xvhich we
maintain 9 to 11 miles of trails this past...and the community, a portion of the community at least...trail system
32
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1995
compared xvith other metropolitan communities of our size and geographic configuration so. They also want to
take a look at forwarding that. It's been 5 to 7 years since the last two referendums on trails failed by 7 or 11
votes...very close at that time so they'd like to put that back to the voters.
Councilman Senn: Can you bring us the list and bring us a map showing us where they are and bring us the
improvements associated with each one so we know what's being recommended to go on each one. That that $6
million price tag, I mean I'd like to see Don come in at the same time and tell us how this fits in in relationship
to our bonding picture. If this and other priorities we've been talking about all have to happen or, etc, so we
can look at the overall picture.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: And a prioritized list.
Councilman Senn: Yeah. Yeah. From both that and a bonding perspective.
Mayor Chmiel: And I think we do have to have that. There's no question. So with that, as I see with Council
discussion and I'm not sure Mike, your feeling. Steve?
Councilman Berquist: My opinion is that we've got to do everything we can to acquire land. The sooner that
happens, the better off we'll be.
Mayor Chmiel: But ~ve have to 'know exactly ~vhere we're at as well before we can say let's proceed.
Councilman Berquist: Yeah.
Mayor Chmiel: So with that, if you'll gather that data and bring that back to Council next, meeting. We can
then discuss it at that time.
Councilman Senn: Do you want a motion to table this until then?
Mayor Chmiel: I would like to see us, yeah get a motion for it.
Councilman Senn: Okay, move to table.
Mayor Chmiel: Is there a second?
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Sure.
Councilman Senn moved, Councilwoman Dockendorf seconded to table action on the parkland acquisition and
development refenendum task fon:e. Ail voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS:
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Let me preface it by saying, Dean I don't know if you've heard any of the
scuttlebutt on this. I would encourage you to call the Executive Director of Southwest Metro, Diane Harberts.
...Okay. There's something afoot and I'll explain what it is but get the details from her please. Don't count on
mine. Just for background information. Southwest Metro is the bus company that serves Chaska, Chanhassen
and Eden Prairie and we run what is considered an opt out agency where these communities have decided to
33
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1995
pull out of the regional, what used to be MTC which is now MCTO field so, and how it works is that our
property taxes go to the Met Council. They give us back 90% and we run our bus company. And we run our
bus company by contracting xvith the MTC, the MCTO, which is a branch of the Met Council and one other
national school bus, which runs a small bus operation. The correspondence you've been seeing and xvill see,
they're putting on a big PR blitz saying that we're in arrears in payments. That we're financially unstable, etc,
etc. And the whole deal behind it is, we have a contract with the Met Council that we°ve been operating under
since 1984-86. Something like that which outlines that our taxes go in. They give us 90%. That's what we
live on. In contract negotiations, which are renegotiated every year, this year they've decided to take out of the
contract the fact that they xvill reimburse our 90% of funds. They're leaving that open ended because the MTC
is in an $8 million deficit and they want to use our money to fund their big, black hole. We, as I said, are
trying to negotiate that. A couple of other opt out agencies have capitulated and signed their contract
agreements. We have decided not to. We think that sets a dangerous precedent. However, because we have
not signed a nexv contract, they have not given us any reimbursements for the first 4 months of the year so we
are in a little financial straits and we are behind in paying the MTC, which again is a subset of the Metropolitan
Council. We have not paid them for their bus services to the tune of $378,000.00. They, in my opinion, are
taking the very loxv road in the negotiations since they hold the funds. And putting on an all out PR blitz
saying that xve are financially unstable. We don't 'know ~vhat xve're doing, etc, etc. So that's what the
correspondence is regarding. They're threatening to cut off our express route services until we make payments.
Again, we can't make payments because they haven't reimbursed us. So it's a catch-22 with them holding all the
cards and we're trying to resolve it. We're trying to take the high road and continue the negotiations. So that is
the update.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. That's sort of been an ongoing thing every year...
Councilxvoman Dockendorf: So if we could direct Sharmin to put a notice on the bus.
Mayor Chmiel: That'd be a good idea. Let's do that. And if not, then we're going to have to appoint one of
the Council members. Okay. Let's go back to, Don you wanted to add something to that too? This pending
work session item.
Don Ashworth: Yeah, but real, real short. I just passed out the sheets. The dates that we have shown for
various work sessions. Affordable housing update. We're simply not going to be ready for that by April 17th
but I xvould like to install in there City Hall expansion. You had asked for some pricing. You asked for
alternatives. You xvanted to see hoxv the Council chambers could basically remain as they are. We are prepared
to present that to you this next week. Now remember next week is the Board of Adjustment, or Board of
Appeals. City Council doesn't really sit on this first one. That's done administratively so if we could meet like
at 6:00. I think we'll be done by 7:00 for anyone xvho would like to come down and just see how many people
are here, but again remember you don't have to actually sit in on the first hearing itself.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, right. I have local Board of Review down but, what time are we going to sit down?
Don Ashworth: 6:00. Then we xvill feed you then.
Councilman Mason: What's this no food stuff on the 20, no.
Mayor Chmiel: Well, we've got a budget to keep. Okay, let's go to item.
34
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1995
Councilman Mason: Noxv ~vait. On the 24th xve've got a Council meeting.
Don Ashxvorth: Right.
Councilman Mason: So we'll have that joint meeting prior to the Council meeting? Is that the plan? I mean
that's fine.
Don Ashworth: No. Actually there should be a new line. See you've got the overall category of senior housing
and I should add a new line that says, you're looking at that bonding issue and this is the redemption agreement
that Carver County. So I'm proposing to put that onto the regular agenda of the 24th.
Councilman Mason: So we don't have the 6:00 meeting that night is what you're saying?
Don Ashworth: No, no. It's a regular Council.
Mayor Chmiel: Regular Council session at 7:30.
Don Ashworth: Yeah, I should have put that at 7:30, regular CC. That's it Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Chmiel: Thank you.
Councilman Mason: We do need to do this joint meeting thing. I think we need that. I think quite honestly as
soon as we can. We need a joint meeting xvith the Planning Commission. But I don't 'know, as soon as we can
could be sometime in June too as far as that goes.
Don Ashworth: Well could you bring your calendars maybe Monday night and I think we'll have some time
hopefully at that work session to look at some dates in here.
Mayor Chmiel: Good. Alright, item l(d). Mark.
Councilman Mason: Well how about, what's going on with number 10 here? Are we dealing with that?
Mayor Chmiel: We'll get to that.
CONSENT AGENDA:
D. APPROVAL OF FINANCIAL POLICIES.
Councilman Senn: I don't 'know, I'm getting frustrated.
Mayor Chmiel: You left yourself open. Don't say that.
Councilman Senn: Yeah, I 'know. I left myself wide open here. I thought when we kind of talked about,
agreed to and decided to go ahead with was incorporating a calendar into the financial management policy,
okay, which primarily earmarked dates, key Council dates. More or less Council would hold work sessions on
budget you knoxv between this date and that date. You know, we'd adopt the preliminary budget by this date
before, earlier than ~ve have been. And what we've got here is, I mean 90% of the stuff on here I could care
35
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1995
less about as far as it related to the financial management policies and the Council. Like I don't care when
Deloitte does their field work and all this kind of stuff. I mean what I really wanted to see as it related to the
financial policies is again benchmarks. Benchmarks which assured that we would see information. Have
adequate time to consider it. Talk about it and everything before it came down to key dates which xve had to
make decisions, because the last couple years we keep get into this rush last minute mode where all of a sudden
it's in front of us and xve're told, geez. If you don't act on it now, you'll be too late under whatever rules, laws,
ordinances, or whatever. And can we do that?
Don Ashworth: Well we talked about that staff ,,vise. In fact my initial reaction was, is that we try to do
exactly xvhat you got through saying. Pam and other staff members reminded me that the truth in taxation dates
change every year. That the different Monday nights are going to be different. That we have to go through a,
as a part of each of our positions, each of our departments, we go through the goals and objectives associates
with that department for the following year. We felt that that would be the best time to present what would be
next year's. So roughly during the timeframe of November to December, xve would be presenting to you a new
page that would look like the 1995 calendar, only that would represent 1996 and '97 and '98 and in that fashion
we could also include all of the things that we xvere hoping to accomplish that next year. Give the Council a
better feeling, because here we're talking about potentially begin conversion of in-house utility. The following
year, it might be some other type of activity. I would guess that that would be capital budgeting. And you
'know kind of on and on and on.
Councilman Senn: But see those are things that we can deal xvith separately. I mean Don, I understand what
you're saying about truth in taxation here and being different dates but we can set a calendar that says, you
know x amount of time before truth in taxation hearing, you know xve're going to have a xvork session to discuss
you know, and decide on a budget. You 'know like if you take this as an example again here, you've got a work
session for a decision on how to balance the budget October 16th and truth in taxation hearing November. I
mean if we can't resolve that in one night, we're going to be right up against the wall again. But you know I
look back here and I say, I see here on the 1 lth of November we're going to do our last xvork session on
administration of special revenue funds and then certify on the 15th. Four days later everything xve're suppose
to certify to the County Auditor and also what's going to set the basis for the notices going out. Again, I mean
right up against the wall again.
Don Ashworth: I think we've got like 6 meetings up in advance of that point. I'm you 'know, the Council can
put in 12 but it just seems, you've got a lot of them in there. And even with the truth in taxation notice, you're
right. That's xvhat xve have to send down to the County for them to put on that truth in taxation notice. But
again the Council can, in the hearing that would be 30 days later, the Council can go below that amount. You
don't have to go to that amount. In fact in previous years you've always set that, you've had that set
administratively. You've had me take the heat for the number that was published and then if you made a
decision, like you did this last year, not to go to that amount, that is a Council decision. I mean you're feet
aren't to the fire.
Councilman Senn: Well and our point was maybe nobody's feet should be to the fire in the first place. We
should maybe have the time to decide it up front.
Don Ashworth: How do you want me to change it?
36
r
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1995
Councilman Mason: I wonder, you 'know with all of this. I'm okay with the way it stands and maybe we
should do a quick poll of Council here. I mean if there's a majority that shares that coneem~ then it needs to be
altered. And if there isn't, then maybe it doesn't.
Councilman Berquist: I'm not certain what either one of you are speaking of directly and I don't know that, I
think Mark has a completely different concept than Don has. What I'd like to see, since Don has gone this far,
how long would it take you Mark to sit down at your computer and type out some, and agenda that more
closely resembles what you've got in mind?
Councilman Senn: Piece of cake.
Councilman Berquist: Then we can compare them and see what is most workable.
Councilman Mason: Sounds like a good idea to me~
Councilman Senn: Fine. Be happy to do
Don Ashworth: Realize that staff does what you see there so I mean all this thing in my own mind was, now
I've got a nice easy way to give it to the City Council and you know what it is that the finance department's
going to be doing in the following yearc If you don't like it, change some of the stuff but I mean this is stuff
we do anyxvay.
Councilman Senn: Well that's one of my, I mean I'm not sure I'm prepared tonight for example to just...
everything you've got in here.
Mayor Chmiel: All we have to do is just table it. And then you do what you're going to do.
Councilman Mason moved, Councilman Senn seconded to table approval of the Financial Policies° All voted in
favor and the motion carfied~
1. AUTHORIZATION OF TRANSFERRING DATA PROCESSING FUNCTIONS TO AN IN-HOUSE
SYSTEM.
Councilman Senn: The transfer of these functions in-house, we talked about at our last work session. The
graph that is presented on page 4 is helpful. The first thing I guess I'd still like to see the question answered
that was posed and that is, what are the total project costs of each one of these segments. And then if you want
to break it down from there, what's you know, what it would cost to do it on paper versus computer or
whatever. I could care less but I still don't have a picture here of what the total project cost is of bringing all
this stuff in-house.
Don Ashworth: Okay. Well, the number that I gave you from last week as far as the cost for the water usage
plan was bid out at $220,000.00 and we did end up with some cost overruns and I'd say paid $240,000.00. The
additional cost to computerize that, put it into a computer format versus paper format is the $30,000.00 to
$50,000.00. The network system is.
Councilman Senn: Okay so, just wait. So the water usage one has effectively cost us $290,000.00 then? Total
project cost.
37
City' Council Meeting - April 10, 1995
Don Ashworth: 270 to 290, yes.
Councilman Senn: Okay, alright.
Don Ashworth: And that network system, including purchase of literally all of the computers in City Hall as
well as the file server, $100,000.00 would be a pretty fair estimate. But again I take the point that every
department basically needs computers to carry out their operations so I don't think anybody is saying well, gee
we never xvould have bought a computer.
Councilman Senn: No, no Don, I'm just asking. I mean like at the work session, I'm just trying to get a handle
on what the overall costs are.
Don Ashworth: The other cost figures are all shown, and to the best of my knowledge.
Councilman Senn: So the total cost of the contour overlays is the $10,000.007
Don Ashworth: Yes.
Councilman Senn: Okay. And 10 on the global.
Don Ashworth: And that's a County cost. That was paid for by the County.
Councilman Senn: Okay. And 40 to 50 on the purchase accounting, utility, geobase. All of that is $40,000.00
to $50,000.00?
Don Ashworth: For 1995, yes.
Councilman Senn: Well I'm not saying 1995. I'm saying total project cost.
Don Ashworth: Okay. The total is $40,000.00 to $50,000.00 for the one time acquisition of the software. The
implementation cost is going to be $25,000.00 for a total of, for those elements for 1995 of $65,000.00 to
$75,000.00.
Councilman Senn: For 1995 you just said again.
Don Ashworth: Yes.
Councilman Senn: Okay. What is the cost outside of 19957
Don Ashworth: Okay '96-'97, xve would anticipate bringing those items in for a one time purchase cost of
$30,000.00 to $40,000.00. Implementation costs of 15 for a total cost for 1996 and '97 of $45,000.00 to
$55,000.00. The total cost for bringing everything in-house is $110,000.00 to $130,000.00. And those numbers
are pretty well verified. We hadn't really finished a lot of the negotiations with Fund Works but I did include a
copy of their proposed cost elements and mine, what I've shoxvn in mine is really higher than they have shown.
There's some things that, I mean you have to realize that the implementation for them to actually bring files in.
Implement them. Help do the conversion of the data. Train. Is estimated at 452 hours. Well, I mean that's a
real swag. So I think mine being a little high on all those numbers is probably a better deal.
38
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1995
Councilman Senn: Okay, so if you look at the total project costs then. Okay, we have one column set out here
that's not on here that's $240,000.00 related to the water usage, okay? Then you have your column 2 here
which is not in your totals of $110,000.00 to $130,000.00, which is an additional what, $100,000.00 to
$140,000.00 because none of those numbers are carried fonvard over to your totals there.
Don Ashworth: Well the only one, I mean are we going to add in the cost of the County.'? The County paid,
we didn't pay any part. So the most I'm going to agree with is that you could add $40,000.00 to $60,000.00.
So if you wanted to come over there and.
Councilman Senn: You're saying the second Column the County is paying for the whole column?
Don Ashworth: No. Just the global positioning station.
Councilman Senn: Okay, so just the $10,000.00. Okay. So but what I'm saying is, the total project cost, that
column then is somewhere between $100,000.00 and $100 and what? What is that? $120,000.00 to
$160,000.00, right?
Don Ashworth: Well if you wanted to take the total cost and you wanted to include costs that were paid let's
say 2, 3 years ago, then I would agree~ The $110,000.00 would change then to, you would add to that number
$40,000.00 to $60,000.00, which would bring that then up to $150,000.00 to $190,000.00.
Councilman Senn: Okay, well. I'm dense so folloxv me. $240,000.00 you've got on water usage. In your
second column there you have a total of $120,000.00 to $160,000.00 and then over in your total column you've
got $110,000.00 to $130,000.00.
Don Ashworth: The only cost that are related to, see I really don't understand how we can be saying well the
cost of bringing accounting, utility and what not, and then we're going to add to that the cost for water surface
from 2-3 years ago. I just, I can't.
Mayor Chmiel: You couldn't, yeah.
Don Ashworth: I can't. You 'know I mean.
Councilman Senn: Well Don, xvhat I was trying to get at the work session was, and I knoxv you've referenced
that some decisions were made 3-4 years ago. I mean nobody's trying to undo those decisions. I, for one am
just simply trying to understand the scope of this project and what the overall scope is. What I'm seeing by the
numbers you've given me here, is the overall project size in here is somewhere between $470,000.00 and
$530,000.00 when it's done. Okay. If that's the project size now, okay. The only question I have then is to
understand, okay, if xve've paid this much already out of these sources and we have this much left to spend,
okay and this much is coming in '95 and this much is coming in '96 and '97, where is it coming from? I'm just
looking for a closure on ho~v we're funding $470,000.00 to $530,000.00 to accomplish the task.
Don Ashworth: Well the water surface had it's own revenue source.
Councilman Senn: That I 'know and it paid so I mean that's kind of like a non-issue but it's just, we know it.
Let's take it. Let's set it aside but what about the rest?
39
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1995
Don Ashxvorth: That's in your 470. The only cost figures. The $40,000.00 to $60,000.00 that has already been
paid, I guess I'd have to go back and look. Well a good portion of that was the water surface which then xvas
paid for as a part of that plan. So the only question really becomes one of the.
Councilman Senn: How are we funding the 230 and the 290?
Don Ashxvorth: You see the 10 foot contour thing, that also came under that water surface. But as by products
that we received from doing those work efforts, noxv can feed an in-house computerized system that can take
advantage of some of that work. The only new cost we're going to take and have is $110,000.00 to
$130,000.00 and we xvill fund that primarily through reduction in costs at Ramsey County. $140,000.00 in costs
that we normally, if xve want to continue operations at Ramsey, it would be $140,000.00.
Councilman Senn: For what, a 3 year period?
Don Ashworth: It's actually a 2 1/2 year period.
Mayor Chmiel: You've got it here as 3 year cost.
Don Ashworth: That's correct. I did put it under that heading but the actual numbers underneath that are 2 1/2
years.
Councilman Senn: Okay, so it's costing us approximately $50,000.00 a year or so noxv over at Ramsey County
then?
Don Ashworth: Correct. And that's staff support plus operations.
Councilman Senn: Okay, and then by effectively using that savings to pay for what we're talking about here in
terms of the balance of the work to be done, then we've covered everything and there's no, t mean then the
project's over or are there additional phases here that are?
Don Ashxvorth: I do not 'know of any additional phases. I tried to give you numbers that xvere all
encompassing. Some of the modules, I'm not sure in my own mind that we'll take and bring over. The
reductions in our auditing costs I think are very minimal. I think that you will see at least $30,000.00. I think
if I would have put in $50,000.00, that you'll more closely achieve that type of savings. I think internal savings
costs will be higher. I mean our savings will be higher than what they're showing there.
Mayor Chmiel: Michael.
Councilman Mason: I'm just going to make the same comment I made on item l(d). If Mark's the only one
that shares this concern, I kind of wish he'd do it in Don's office and not.
Mayor Chmiel: Take up our time? Is that what?
Councilman Mason: Quite honestly, yeah.
Councilman Senn: If I'm the only one, that's fine.
40
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1995
Mayor Chmiel: Okay.
Don Ashxvorth: May I make one final comment?
Mayor Chmiel: Sure.
Don Ashworth: I honestly think that this is a very good program. It will save you money and you will not
incur, if anything it's going to save you money and yet at the same time provide us with capabilities that we do
not have today. Bottom line.
Councilman Berquist: Here's my comments for what they're worth. Anything you figure on saving in the
computer, you can cut in half. And the second thing is, there are key decisions that need to be left up to a
management team and this is one of them.
Councilman Mason: I agree 100%. I move approval of item l(i).
Councilman Berquist: I'll second.
Councilman Mason moved, Councilman Berquist seconded to approve the authorization of transferring data
processing functions to an in-house system~ All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS:
ANNEXATION OF VICTORIA PROPERTYi TRUNK SEWER AND WATER TO BOLEY PHASE 2.
Don Ashworth: Don and I have sat in on a number of meetings with Victoria, with Lundgren Brothers and I
hope that we're bringing this thing to some form of a closure. I thought that we had kind of an agreed to thing
that we xvould be willing to take back to the Chanhassen City Council and hopefully that whomever would take
back to the Victoria City Council. The thing fell totally apart on the Victoria end. We went back to square
one. Now we're kind of building kind of back to where we were. They initially they wanted a deal of, square
foot for square foot trades but in the process of doing that, they wanted us to give what would be the equivalent
of full lots while they were willing to give what I considered back yards. And we now have kind of settled that
out. I think that they end up with one full lot. We would actually have two parcels in Chanhassen that would
be served by Victoria streets. We made the offer and this square footage thing now comes back more in our
favor but hopefully Victoria now understands that they're giving up back yards. That's all they're giving up.
And the issue of the sewer and water, I saw that to our benefit because I mean we've got the sewer and water
systems out there. Why not make those extensions. That's been a problem for Victoria but the fact is, it's going
to be years and years and years before that area is ever served by Victoria sewer and water. But if this City
Council really wouldn't like to see that as a part of it, ! think Victoria would be more than happy to see that
scratched out of it.
Councilman Berquist: What makes sense for the future homeowners out there?
Don Ashworth: I don't think there will be homeowners out there if we don't extend our sewer and water. And I
mean Victoria loses big time in terms of tax receipts for a minimum of 5 years. Logically 10 to 20. They
haven't been very easy to negotiate with.
41
City Council Meeting - April 10, 1995
Councilman Senn: Yeah, from day one on this one I haven't understood ,,',,here Victoria's coming from.
Councilman Berquist: You haven't been able to understand it? I read through this very quickly and it almost
sounded to me like, give me that. No, you give me that.
Councilman Senn: Well it's a game of one upmanship is all I can tell. I mean there's no logic to it.
Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, no. Basically.
Councilman Senn: I mean this thing started out with some strips going across the people's back yards that we
didn't want to have in two different cities.
Mayor Chmiel: Well I think it's the mere fact that we do have a new Mayor and I think she does understand
xvhat the situation is and Mayor Meuwissen did indicate that to me ~vhen ~ve sat down and talked about it one
day. I suggested that she also talk with staff and she had discussions with Kate. And then she's also had
discussions xvith Don, and I think this xvill...Okay. Any other discussion? Is there.
Councilman Senn: What are xve supposed to do xvith it?
Mayor Chmiel: Well basically.
Don Ashworth: Well this is just kind of an update type of report. If xve didn't xvrite something that you saws
we'd like to hear so we can make sure that Victoria knoxvs about it.
Mayor Chmiel: So with that, can I have a motion for adjournment?
Councilman Mason moved, Councilman Berquist seconded to adjoum the meeting. All voted in favor and the
motion carried. The meeting was adjourned at 9:55 p.m.
Submitted by Don Ashworth
City Manager
Prepared by Nann Opheim
42