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CC Minutes 1996 03 25CHANI-IASSEN CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING MARCH 25, 1996 Mayor Chmiel called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. The meeting was opened with the Pledge to the Flag. COUNCILMEMBERS PRESENT: Mayor Chmiel, Councilwoman Doekendorf, and Councilman Berquist COUNCILMEMBERS ABSENT: Councilman Senn and Councilman Mason STAFF PRESENT: Don Ashworth, Roger Knutson, Todd Gerhardt, Kate Aanenson, Todd Hoffman, Sharmin Al-Jarl, John Rask, and Dave Hempel APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Councilman Berquist moved, Council~voman Doekendorf seconded to approve the agenda as presented. PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: RECOGNITION OF CHANI-IASSEN LIONS CLUB, MAYOR CHMIEL AND PARK & RECREATION COMMISSIONER FRANK SCOTL Mayor Chmiel: This is a recognition of Chanhassen Lions Club who have made frequent donations to the city. Their past times that they have made a donation to the city, it was in the amount of $11,000.00 so a lot of these dollars are given for recreational aspects within the city and we really appreciate that. But not only that, this evening we're also having another donation from the Lions in the amount of $15,000.00 and for that I'm going to come doxvn front. Is our commission member here? Todd Hoffman: I'd like to introduce Frank Scott. He's a Park & Rec Commissioner. He will stand with Mayor Chmiel to accept this cheek from Roland and Gary Boyle and Charlie Robbins. Roland's the current President of the Chanhassen Lions and Gary Boyle and Charlie Robbins. So back in 1994 the Lions did donate $11,000.00 to the City of Chanhassen for playground equipment at the Chanhassen Recreation Center, Bluff Creek Elementary School. The city at that time did not finance a community playground for the site so the Lions stepped forward and made that initial contribution of $11,000.00. They'd like to add to that escrow with this $15,000.00 so this summer xve can dedicate a playground at Chanhassen Recreation Center and naming that the Chanhassen Lions Playground. Roland: As Lions in Chanhassen we're just really thrilled to have this opportunity to donate these additional funds to the City of Chanhassen for the Lions Park for the playground equipment...~vith that, if I can find the check, here Don. Mayor Chmiel: Appreciate it. Really on behalf of the City and the Council, we really do appreciate the assistance you give us. This is great. I look forward to naming the Lions Park. I know you have your meeting this evening. I don't want to keep you too long but thanks again. Really appreciate it. Thank you. CONSENT AGENDA: Councilwoman Dockendorf moved, Councilman Berquist seconded to approve the following Consent Agenda items pmsuant to the City Manageffs recommendations: ac The Woods at Longacres 2nd Addition, Lundgren Brothers: 1) Final Plat Approval. 2) Approve Development Contract and Construction Plans & Specifications, Project 96-7. b. Resolution #96-26: Accept Utility Improvements in Pointe Lake Lucy, Project 95-9. City Council Meeting - March 25, 1996 Accept $15,000.00 donation from the Chanhassen Lions Club for Chanhassen Recreation Center Playground. f. Approval of 1996/97 Liquor License Renewals. g. Approve Contract with Bissonett Engineering Services, Energy Audit. i. Approval of Bills. City Council Minutes dated March 4, 1996 City Council Minutes dated March I1, 1996 Planning Commission Minutes dated March 6, 1996 k. Resolution t196-27: Authorize the Issuance and Sale of $900,000.00 G.O. Improvement Refunding Bonds. 1. Approve Condemnation Settlement, Klein Property, TH 101 Corridor. All voted in favor and the motion carded. The following Consent Agenda items xvere tabled due to only three City Council members being present. Amendment to City Code Concerning Bluff Protection and Side Slope Setbacks, Second and Final Reading and Approval of Summary Ordinance for Publication Purposes. Amendment to City Code Concerning Landscaping and Tree Removal for Transitional Buffering Bet~veen Uses, Second and Final Reading and Approval of Summary Ordinance for Publication Purposes. APPROVE REQUEST FOR GAMBLING PERMIT AT THE RIVERIA CLUB~ MINNETONKA YOUTH HOCKEY ASSOCIATION, Councilwoman Dockendorf: This is a request for the Minnetonka Youth Hockey Association for a gambling permit at the Riveria. I've never made a secret of my opinion of gaming, in particular in light of the check we just received, it makes me hypocritical. I do realize that this does benefit the city in many ways but I am very opposed to any type of gambling. I don't think, as I've said in the past, I think we really don't recognize or aren't aware of the hidden costs, and this one particularly disturbs me because it is for youth hockey and I don't think that sets a good example for our youth. Anyway with that, you can move it if you'd like since it only requires a simple majority. Mayor Chmiel: This will need at least a majority. Roger Knutson: Majority of the quorum. Mayor Chmiel: Okay, thank you. I wanted clarification. I'm glad that you pulled that one also, and I guess I have a little bit of a concern with that as well. I'm sort of surprised that ;ye're going to put this out into Minnetonka, even though it's part of the city, as far as the school district is concerned. The only concerns that I had with this is I know that the youth hockey association within the community is also looking at different 2 City Council Meeting - March 25, 1996 ways of trying to acquire some dollars and ~vhether they had that opportunity or were approached, that was the only question that I had. Does anyone know? Don Ashworth: I do not know. Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Councilman Berquist: I've heard that they, once they found out what...they hustled down and made application... Councilwoman Dockendorf: This is for Chanhassen Youth Hockey Association? Mayor Chmiel: Yes, well they're sort of intermingled really. They all try to work together. Councilman Berquist: Well I agree with Colleen from a philosophical point of view. However, from a pragmatic point of view, my hypocrisy is going to hold forth and I'll move approval of the gambling permit for the Minnetonka Youth Hockey Association at the Riveria Club. Mayor Chmiel: And I will second that. Resolution #96-28: Councilman Benluist moved, Mayor Chmiel seconded to approve the request for Gambling Permit at the Riveria Club by the Miunetonka Youth Hockey Association. All voted in favor, except Councilwoman Dockendorf who opposed, and the motion carried with a vote of 2 to 1. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: REFERENDUM PROPOSAL, SCHOOL DISTRICT 276, DR. DANIlgL JETF, SUPERINTENDENT OF SCHOOLS. Mayor Chmiel: At this time I'd like to ask Dr. Daniel Jett, Superintendent of Schools for School District 276, Minnetonka, who is going to address the referendum proposal. So Dr. Jett, if you'd please come up to the microphone. Dr. Daniel Jett: Good evening Mayor Chmiel, members of Council. With me with this evening is the Vice Chair of the Minnetonka School Board, Ms. Gail Scholl. As you've undoubtedly heard and read, the Minnetonka School District will be conducting a referendum on April 23rd of this year for the purpose of meeting secondary students' needs in three areas. One is the need for additional space. Capacity in our middle schools and our high school. Two is to update and modernize those three facilities. The two middle schools xvere built in 1963. Those are 33 years old. The High School which opened in 1952 and thus is 44 years old. The third reason for the referendum is to provide the funds to make available to students for teaching and learning purposes technology. What I'd like to do this evening, ~vith your indulgence is give you some written material that I won't review all of it but I'll trust you to take a look at it at your convenience. Mayor Chmiel: I hope this is not a written test. Dr. Daniel Jett: The written test comes April 23rd. As you may know the Minnetonka Public School District is comprised of some or all of eleven different municipalities, of which Chanhassen is one, As a matter of fact, let City Council Meeting ~ March 25, 1996 me share just a bit of information with you concerning enrollment as it pertains to Chanhassen in our school district. First of all xvithin our boundaries, within the school district boundaries there are approximately 1,941 households which are Chanhassen. Of those households...I'm sorry, there are 841 households which have students in our district and there are another 152 households which have children under 5 years of age, which means those are children who will attend our school district in the future. Our purpose in being here tonight is to share information about the referendum and then perhaps respond to any questions you might have. I'm going to do that by walking you through the handouts you have. Without reading each one of them but I'd like to point out what they are. The first one, which is a four page brochure, the more colorful perhaps. This one...what I would call all the information they need to know about the referendum. In other words, the purpose of the referendum as I eluded to briefly. The demographics in terms of student population. The age of buildings, update for technology...and then our strategy for addressing those problems. On page 3 we talk about solutions. Once xve propose the solution, which is a 30 point, I'm sorry, $33 million referendum. I started to say $30.5 because that part is the bond portion. The other $2.5 million is the levy at $250,000.00 per year for 10 years so the total becomes $33 million. On the rear of the, or the reverse of the last page you have the proposal summary which is the number that I just talked about, $33 million and how it's broken out. Then in the second box it's the estimated cost to homeowners depending upon the estimated market value of the home. I would note too that there are seven voting locations and the hours and locations are listed on the brochure. This has been received by every member of our community through our Community Education Services brochure, which you may have received in your past. Of if not, you'll be receiving in a day or two... If I could then call your attention to the yellow handout. This handout compares the 1995 referendum to the 1996 referendum. It shows how they're different in terms of dollars. Last year's referendum was $39 million in total, $39 1/2 and this year's $33 so the difference is $6 1/2 million dollars. You'll notice how those reductions xvere accomplished and I'd like to take just a minute to point out a couple, what I would call highlights. First in terms of technology. Instead of funding this on 30 year bonds, which taxpayers xvould be paying interest continually through that process, we've decided to use a strategy that will allow us to have a levy at $250,000.00 per year. The total then being $2.5 million. Then our strategy's, instead of having all of that money being available and all that...we can purchase lump sum beginning of the period to acquire over the 10 year period of time which will allow us to simulate that technology in a reasonable fashion so that our staff can be trained. Our technicians can bring it all along sooner. The second thing it allows us to do is to acquire technology through some, what xve think are some really exciting and creative ways of saving money. For example, instead of purchasing several million dollars worth of hardware and then having time go by, years go by and having that technology age year after year, xve plan to go through a lease market and lease technology on a 36 month lease so that xve can be turning our own equipment over in a way that won't keep it up front on the cutting edge, because I don't think xve need to be there but to be certainly not far behind it and also to position ourselves so that 10 years out xve're not left with an inventory of technology that's outdated, and there we go again with the taxpayers with another technology event, is what I would call it. So we're trying to position ourselves strategically so that we can stay reasonable in our acquisition and training. At the same time we can stay fairly close to up to date. Never falling too far behind and never getting stuck with more inventory on hand and outdated equipment. The final piece on that is we have found that there are some uses of technology in schools for which we believe that doing a lease market or lease equipment that others have already used for a couple years. As you notice some companies turn over their equipment after 24-36 months. It works quite xvell...we can leverage our dollars. I think we're looking about 30 to 40 cents on the dollar...talking about equipment. So in so doing we have been able to bring the dollars on the technology side down and we think create an exciting opportunity for us to stay well positioned xvith technology because our plan is 10 years out to have technology be fully integrated into our operating levy as the cost of doing business, much as we do with textbooks and so forth. The second area we were able to reduce cost in ~vas at the High School level and you can see on the yellow page the way we did that. We concentrated construction to minimize site work and to minimize the 4 City Council Meeting - March 25, 1996 transition we have from new to old and I won't review each of the items but you can see that we were very aggressive xvith our market text and our construction manager to say, how can xve meet the needs of students without over building, under building or being wasteful of taxpayers money. I might also pause here to say that the referendum proposal that we have is a result of a long period of study on the part of members of the Board of Education and me and my staff. You may be aware that during the month of January I conducted a series of 10 community meetings. One held at each of our schools, and at our Deephaven Education Center. We had over 300 citizens come to those meetings and interact with their fellow citizens and we talked about the needs students have and then the possible solutions. The proposal we have before the voters now is based on what we describe as student needs as opposed to our wants. And in this day and age, that's a very tough line to draw sometimes. That level of detail but we think that the proposal just meets students needs without going beyond that. Quickly on the green sheet, let's talk about needs. What you have are the middle school and high school projections of student enrollment within Minnetonka Public Schools. You'll notice that if we do nothing, with our current capacities in the middle schools, we ~vill go up to 21% over current capacity. And over at the high school level...will go 54% over capacity. If I can put those in real numbers for you, what that means is if you were to go to our high school now you would find 2,000 students. You can see there that in the year 03-04, you would find 2,703 students in that same facility if we do nothing. If we do something and the something that xve're talking about is what's proposed in the referendum package, you'll see the results in the next column. For both the middle school and high school we end up being 8% over capacity. In other words we never, ~ve don't build to ever fully...the entire projected capacity and we do that with the notion that we know we need to live within our means. We may have to live uncomfortable but we also noticed that that 8% is for a one year period of time and then if you look at the band, if you will...the 4, 5, 6, 8 and then back to 6 and so forth, we think xve can live with it and xve created this scenario after, and being aggressive on planning assumptions ~vith the number of students...utilization of our facility and I won't bog you down with calculations but I want you to know that this proposal is what xve believe right on the edge of being able to accommodate our students both safely and productively. That's the point, I think productive. One of the non-negotiables in our work has been the quality of education. In other words, you can solve space problems and age of facility problems in a variety of ways but one of our choices was not to solve in a way that hurts kids academically, and we believe our proposal does that. The white pages, xvhich are two in number have... Mayor Chmiel: Just one. Dr. Daniel Jett: We have been rightfully asked a number of times, have you considered all of the options, or some phrase like that. We have so many options, combinations and permutations...solve students needs that to say we've considered every single one of them, I guess we have in some fashion, without listing...let me say that the bottom line...is the cost and that may sound on the surface, well of course it's cost. Let me explain that a little bit because there may not be a better way to compare it. When people talk about cost of the referendum, typically they talk about the cost of bonds. Typically they're talking about the cost of adding space and we've been encouraged to look for solutions that would not incur costs for bonds to create space. And in so doing, what we have to look at is what could some of the other costs be, unintended or intended costs, and if you don't mind, let me walk you through one quick scenario of how that works so when you hear the word cost, you think not only of bonds but you think of operating an academic facility. It's been suggested that we move our 9th graders from the high school to our middle schools. Thus eliminating the need for space at the high school. We can do that. It won't make the building any younger and it still needs updating so that point still needs to be...and out students need technology. A building built in 1952 is just not equipped the way it should be for moderu education. In any event, suppose we move 9th graders. The first thing we would do is have to go to the middle schools and spend some money updating our science rooms because the middle school has no science rooms. That's not a big deal but it's... Then you have to look at the fact that our current 9th graders can City Council Meeting - March 25, 1996 take about a fourth of the high school, and they do. In other words...middle schools come ready to take...so if they're at the middle school, either they don't take those courses or we put them on buses and send them back to the high school, which is operating costs and puts kids back in the high school. Or we over staff the middle school to bring teachers and programs back to the middle school to provide them that opportunity so anyway you look at that, there's some kind of cost. Either it's the cost to kids in what they can take or not take. It's a cost in the operating budget for teachers or transportation, or a cost back to the high school for more space. The fact is, getting back to that green sheet... The second part of that equation would be to go ahead and send our 6th graders back to the elementary schools. In other words, have a model that's K-6, 7-9 and 10-12. If we could live with that 9th grade piece that I just talked about, then we have to see what happens to the 6th graders. And if we send the 6th graders back to our six elementary schools, it means we need to add about 4 classrooms to each of our elementary schools. If we use those tables, they cost $155,000.00 a piece and you're going to have...dollar cost. Someone said well build a seventh building. You need to buy land. They talk dollars to build a school. Then you need to redistrict all six elementary districts and once the building's been used, the level of kids as...comes through and then it affects it's inventory and you either sell the new one or you sell one of the old ones and of course the one you sell needs to be located in a commercial area... I guess the final shoe drops when you sell that school you realize you're in a buyers market and you're the seller... So I use that only as an example. We took each of the proposals and pushed it. One of the choices xvas...and the proposal we have before you is the one that we believe best suits the needs of our students, and at the same time very, very respectful of...our taxes. I'm not a Chanhassen resident myself. Two of our board members live in Chanhassen. Our new Community Education Director...I think is a person who lives in Chanhassen. I'm all too personally aware of taxes and concerns that people have. For my house I have to separate those two issues. What do the kids need and...so I'm going to stop there and I'd be happy to respond to any questions you might have. I appreciate the time and the time you may spend with this material later... Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. Appreciate it. Do you have any questions? Councilman Berquist: I don't have any questions. I very well may after I get done going through all the data but I know that Minnetonka and Chaska and the whole surrounding communities are districts that are in states of change and knoxv there's new blood on the Minnetonka School Board. I know there's new blood on the Minnetonka Administration. I knoxv there's a tremendous amount of xvork that's gone into putting this thing together. I wish you well. Dr. Daniel Jett: Thanks very much. Mayor Chmiel: Colleen, did you have any questions? Councilwoman Dockendorf: No, I don't. Mayor Chmiel: I think that you did go through it rather quickly but you still made the right presentation as far as I'm concerned, In all the necessary functions that you had and we really appreciate that. Hopefully our residents will have that opportunity to also listen to what you have to say as they view this within a couple of weeks prior to the referendum. So thank you for coming and making this presentation. Dr. Daniel Jett: Thank you for... Gail Scholl: Could I take just 30 more seconds? 6 City Council Meeting - March 25, 1996 Mayor Chmiel: You bet. Gail Scholl: I'm on the School Board, and have been on the School Board for...number of years. I really appreciate...but I wanted to tell you that all seven of the School Board members, including two residents of Chanhassen, support this proposal whole-heartedly who are all working very hard to let other people know.., for residents and the students in Chanhassen that go to the Minnetonka school, we need this for the voters... It's really getting critical that our students are very crowded in the, particularly in the high school. The middle level is getting there as well. So we need the support for what's being proposed and we really would appreciate anything you can do to help us out. Thank you so much for the time. Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. CITY CENTER PARK/CHANHASSEN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL PLAYGROUND EXPANSION~ MATCHING FUNDS~ CHANHASSEN ELEMENTARY PARENT ORGANIZATION. Todd Hoffman: Thank you Mayor Chmiel, members of the City Council. At the last meeting there were two questions which came about regarding this issue. Question number one had to do with the reserves and why a reserve which has been identified on the budget, it's called City Center Park play equipment would then need to be approved for authorization to expend those dollars by the City Council. Simply because they are on reserve and those dollars aren't in the current levy. City Manager Ashworth answered that question last time. The second and more poignant question I think is why are xve being asked as the city to match the PTO's $7,500.00. Why not the school district and essentially we were not asked. We put that matching, those matching funds out before them for the past nearly 20 years. For the past 5 or 6 years it's been identified right in the budget so they've been working to putting the second and third phase on this playground. This school has instructed the principal that they did not have the money over the past 4 or 5 years so the Parent Teacher Organization stepped up their candy and Christmas wrap paper sales this year. Raised approximately $7,000.00. Asked whether the money was still available in the city budget to match that, which I responded yes it was. They contacted a variety of the playground vendors. Approved vendor, Earl F. Anderson...and called and asked if we could go ahead and have those dollars approved. The item xvas placed on a Park Commission agenda, which you have in your packet. They approved it and it was placed on the City Council...last meeting so those are the explanations to your questions. If you have any additional questions or comments, or if you'd like to re-visit that policy because it's really been in place since the establishment of the City Center Park. Whereas the City and School shares those investments of it's park site and the playground serves a dual purpose for the community. I'd recommend...talking about those at another time. There is that... Mayor Chmiel: Okay, thank you. Any questions of Todd? Councilman Berquist: No. Mayor Chmiel: Colleen? Couneihvoman Dockendorf: No. We had a chance to talk about it. I would move approval. Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, good. Is there a second? Councilman Berquist: I'll second. 7 City Council Meeting - March 25, 1996 Resolution #96-29: Councilwoman Dockendorf moved, Councilman Bcntuist seconded that the City Council amend the 1996 Park and Trail Acquisition and Development budget to designate up to $7,500.00 in matching funds for the pumhase of a Phase II playground expansion at the Chanhassen Elementary/City Center Park '~vest" playground. All voted in favor and the motion carried. PRELIMINARY PLAT APPROVAL TO SUBDIVIDE 11.8 ACRES INTO 23 SINGLE FAMILY LOTS; LOCATED WEST OF STRATFORD RIDGE AND NORTH OF THE OAKS OF MINNEWASHTA~ OAK RIDGE OF MINNEWASHTA~ GREG HAHN. Dave Hempel: Thank you Mr. Mayor, members of the City Council. The city has received an application for preliminary plat approval to subdivide 11.8 acres into 23 single family lots. The property is located west of Stratford Ridge and north of the Oaks of Minnewashta...of the parcel regarding the assessments for the Lake Minnewashta street improvements. Whereas she was advised at that time that additional unit charges would be collected in excess of the 16 deferred assessments is the property subdivided and there was a greater amount of lots. Staff is recommending approval of the preliminary plat with conditions listed in the staff report xvith the deletion of condition number 16. Thank you. Mayor Chmiel: Okay, thank you. Do you have any questions of Dave at this time? Councilman Berquist: I'd just like to understand condition 16 a little bit more. It was originally a public street with two storm water ponds? Dave Hempel: That's correct. Councilman Berquist: And. Dave Hempel: Staff tried to minimize the ponding areas and incorporate a private street on one of the cul-de- sacs to give them more room for the pond. To consolidate ponds. However, due to the severe grade differences at the two ends of the development it's not feasible and the amount of water going to the west is very minimal and could be adequately treated in a small sediment basin at the west end of the property. Therefore that pond on the west end has been reduced significantly. Councilman Berquist: ...public street. Dave Hempel: And on the east end there where we are recommending originally, or initially a private street to give it some more room for the pond, working with the applicant's engineer demonstrated that it can be placed in there with a public street. Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Do you have any questions Colleen? Councilwoman Dockendorf: Have we figured out whether this will have those additional assessments? Dave Hempel: There is documentation as to the property owner at the time notifying of the additional assessments to be collected. Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. Is the applicant here this evening? 8 City Council Meeting - March 25, 1996 Tom Loucks: Mr. Mayor, my name is Tom Loucks. We're the engineers on the project. We agree with everything that the City Engineer has indicated to Council, and I know... Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. Steve. Councilman Berquist: I don't have anything to add to the staff report. Mayor Chmiel: Okay, Colleen. Councilwoman Doekendorf: Nor do I. Mayor Chmiel: Alright. May we have a motion for preliminary plat approval? Councilwoman Dockendorf: I'd move it. Mayor Chmiel: With the staff recommendations7 Councilxvoman Dockendorf: Yes. Deleting item 16. Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. Is there a second? Councilman Berquist: I will second. Councilwoman Dockendorf moved, Councilman Berquist seconded to approve Subdivision #96-2, the Oak Ridge of Lake Minne~vashta, prepared by Loucks & Associates, Inc., dated January 19, 1996, creating 23 lots and associated right-of-way subject to the following conditions: 1. Forestation and replacement plantings for the development requires 77 trees chosen from the City's Approved Tree List. Conifer trees shall average seven feet in height with a six foot minimum height. The applicant shall submit a revised landscaping plan, incorporating these changes to the city for review and approval prior to final plat approval. 2. The building pads for lots around the western cul-de-sac be located closer to the road in order to pull the houses away from the existing wooded area in the northwestern comer. 3. The stormwater pipes along the northern property line shall be relocated away from the tree line to preserve these trees. Any additional trees preserved on-site will reduce the amount of replacement plantings required on site. 4. Trees that are to be preserved on site shall be protected with tree protection fencing pursuant to city ordinance. Such fencing shall be installed in conjunction with the installation of the erosion control fences and prior to site grading. 5. Add one fire hydrant at the northeast comer of the intersection at Country Oaks Road and Oak Ridge Court. Relocate the fire hydrant from between Lots 2 and 3 to Lots 3 and 4, Block 1. 9 City Council Meeting o March 25, 1996 9. 10. 11. 12. 13. 14. 15. 16. 17. 18. The proposed street names "Oak Ridge Lane" and "Oak Ridge Court" must be resubmitted. The city already has an Oakwood Ridge and Country Oaks Road. With four roads named Oak, we are trying to minimize confusion in the event of a police, fire, or medical emergency. A ten foot clear space must be maintained around fire hydrants. City Ordinance 9-1. In lieu of land dedication, the development shall pay full park and trail fees pursuant to city ordinance. A demolition permit shall be required prior to the removal of any structures on the parcel. This should be done prior to any grading on the property. The applicant shall be responsible for SWMP water quality and quantity connection charges in the amount of $9,440. and $23,364. respectively. Credits will be applied to these charges based on the applicant's contribution to SWMP requirements. The credits will be determined upon final review of the construction plans. These fees are payable to the city prior to recording the final plat. The applicant shall retain a qualified wetlands delineator to prepare a report or letter of clarification as to the status of the creek through Lots 7 and 8, Block 1. The applicant's engineer and city staff shall work together to reduce the amount of site grading and the need for the westerly pond by means of adjusting street and house pad grades accordingly. The applicant xvill need to submit ponding calculations to determine if the ponds are meeting SWMP water quality requirements. The ponds shall also be designed to maintain the predeveloped runoff rate from the site. The outlet pipe from the easterly storm pond shall be relocated to minimize or avoid tree removal along the north plat line. The applicant will be responsible for acquiring the necessary drainage and utility easement outside the plat for extension of the storm water pipe through the church property to the north of the site. Staff and the applicant's engineer will be working to adjust site grades to preserve the tree lines along the north and south property lines of the plat. The applicant shall add a 5 foot wide concrete sidewalk along Country Oaks Drive. Erosion control measures shall be implemented on the site to control runoff. All catch basins shall be protected with erosion control fence until the site has been fully revegetated and the streets paved. Rock construction entrances shall be installed and maintained at all construction entrance points until the first lift of asphalt has been installed. The applicant shall be responsible for payment of the deferred assessments for the Minnewashta Park~vay improvements including interest to date. In addition, the applicant shall be responsible for seven additional lot assessments in the amount of $760. per lot plus interest from October, 1993. The City Attorney shall verify that the city can collect additional assessments from the property for the seven additional lots in excess of the 16 lots that were originally estimated for the property. Upon completion, the developer shall dedicate to the city the utility and street improvements within the public right-of-way and drainage and utility easements for permanent ownership. 10 City Council Meeting - March 25, 1996 20. 21. 22. 23. 24. 25. 26. 27. 28. 29. 30. 31. All areas disturbed as a result of construction activities shall be immediately restored with seed and disc- mulched or wood fiber blanket or sod within two weeks of completion of each activity in accordance with the City's Best Management Practice Handbook. All public utility and street improvements shall be constructed in accordance with the latest edition of the City's Standard Specifications and Detail Plates. Detailed street and utility plans and specifications shall be submitted for staff review and City Council approval. Oak Ridge Court shall be constructed in accordance with the City's private street ordinance. The applicant shall provide detailed ponding calculations for stormxvater quality/quantity ponds in accordance with the City's Surface Water Management Plan for the City Engineer to review and approve. The applicant shall provide detailed pre-developed and post developed stormwater calculations for 100 year storm events and normal water level and high water level calculations in existing basins, created basins and/or creeks. Water quality ponding design calculations shall be based on Walker's Pondnet model. The applicant shall enter into a development contract xvith the city and provide the necessary financial security to guarantee compliance with the terms of the development contract. The applicant shall apply for and obtain permits from the appropriate regulatory agencies, i.e. Carver County, Watershed District, Metropolitan Waste Control Commission, Health Department, and Minnesota Pollution Control Agency. The applicant shall submit to the city soil boring information prior to final plat consideration. The appropriate drainage and utility easements should be dedicated on the final plat for all utilities and ponding areas lying outside the right-of-way. The easement width shall be a minimum of 20 feet wide. Consideration should also be given for access for maintenance of the ponding areas. No berming or landscaping xvill be allowed xvithin the right-of-~vay. The lowest exposed floor or opening elevation of all buildings should be a minimum of 2 feet above the 100 year high water level. The proposed stormwater ponds must have side slopes of 10:1 for the first ten feet at the normal water level and no more than 3:1 thereafter or 4:1 throughout for safety purposes. Existing xvells and/or septic systems will have to be properly abandoned in accordance to the City and State Health Department codes. The existing home on Lot 12, Block 1 shall be connected to the sanitary sewer system within 30 days after the system becomes operational. The resident may continue to utilize the well until the well fails at which time the parcel shall be connected to city water service. The applicant shall report to the City Engineer the location of any drain tiles found during construction and shall relocate or abandon the drain tile as directed by the City Engineer. 11 City Council Meeting - March 25, 1996 32. The applicant shall include a drain tile system behind the curbs to convey sump pump discharge for these lots xvhich are not adjacent to a xvetland, storm pond or catch basin. All voted in favor and the motion carried. CONSIDER SITE PLAN REVIEW APPROVAL OF A RETAIL BUILDING OF 8~321 SQ. Fr4 LOTS 2 AND 3~ BLOCK lq MARKET SQUARE~ MARKET SQUARE 3 PARTNERS~ INC.~ LOTUS REALTY. Sharmin AI-Jaff: The architect is not here yet so we were wondering if we should delay the item until later on the agenda. Mayor Chmiel: I'm amenable to that. We can bring this back for review when the architect is here. Let's move to item number 6. SIGN VARIANCE TO PERMIT A SECOND WALL MOUNTED SIGNi LOCATED NORTH OF HIGHWAY 5~ EAST OF MARKET BOULEVARD ON WEST 79TH STREET~ TIRES PLUS GROUPE~ INC. John Rask: Mr. Mayor, that item needs to be tabled, or the applicant requested that the item be tabled as he was not able to make here this evening. Mayor Chmiel: Okay, is there a motion to table? Councilman Berquist: I move to table. Mayor Chmiel: Is there a second? Councilwoman Dockendorf: Yes. Councilman Benluist moved, Councilwoman Dockendoff seconded to table the sign variance to pemfit a second wall mounted sign for Tires Plus Groupe, Inc. per the applicant's request. Ali voted in favor and the motion carried. AMENDMENT TO SECTION 20-482 OF THE CITY CODE REGARDING REMOVAL OR ALTERATION OF VEGETATION IN THE SHORELAND DISTRICT~ FIRST READING, Mayor Chmiel: By the way, we can go through with this because it is a first reading and does not require a 4/5 majority so Ave will proceed with that. The second reading will require it though. Sharmin. Sharmin AI-Jaff: It's John's. Mayor Chmiel: Okay, John. There's too many things going here. John Rask: We're moving fast tonight. This amendment came up over, actually it's presented some problems over the last few years to the Shoreland Ordinance. We often get requests from homeowners along the lakeshore regarding how much vegetation they can remove if they want to create a view or if they want to do a swimming beach and so forth and the ordinance is fairly vague as far as what is allowed. I.f you look at what the definition says, it says that you're allowed to rmnove vegetation but intensive vegetation clearing is not 12 City Council Meeting - March 25, 1996 allowed xvithin the shore or bluff zones and on steep slopes. What we attempted to do with this ordinance is to provide an numeric standard. This would, this area which we had described as 30% or 30 feet, whichever is lesser, applies only to the shoreland zone, ~vhich in most cases is going to be 37 1/2 feet. It's half of that 75 foot setback. If you look at the diagrams that were included in your report, it shows examples how this ordinance amendment would be applied. And again, this would just kind of be worse ease scenario. We would hope that people in clearing vegetation would be more sensitive than this, but it does provide those standards. We get complaints from time to time regarding somebody removing vegetation and we aren't real clear ourselves as to what intensive vegetation clearing means so we felt it was necessary to provide some quantitative method of describing that so with that staff is recommending approval of the ordinance amendment as presented in the staff report. Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Thanks John. Do you have any questions Steve? Councilman Berquist: Yes I do. This sort of reminds me about the story of the...200 words and laws regarding the growing of cabbage, having 35,000. You make mention of having the complaints regarding vegetation removal. Any specifics? And proven though, in the body of the ordinance it specifically states that vegetation being removed due to sewer construction or structure building are exempt from the ordinance. John, can you briefly enumerate...? John Rask: Sure. On the first, Lake Riley, a homeowner took his Bobcat in the lake. Went up the shoreline and cleared all the vegetation across the entire length of the lot to create a sand blanket and paved down for a boat launch and so forth. So that was a problem. Is that intensive? He didn't think so. The neighbor did. Christmas Lake. Councilman Berquist: When did that happen? John Rask: This past summer. Councilman Berquist: New resident? John Rask: Yes. Councilman Berquist: Existing house? John Rask: I'm not sure how new the house is. It was in Lake Riley Woods. The south side. There was a recent lot on Christmas Lake on the south side, off of Ridge Road, that was recently constructed. There's another one going up. A lot of times it's. Councilman Berquist: Well how is this ordinance going to prevent the fellow with the Bobcat? John Rask: Well he's not going to be able to remove the vegetation across the entire length of his shoreline. He'd have to leave some of it natural. Again, we're not adding any new requirements. We're just trying to define what intensive is. So we're not trying to be more restrictive. We're not trying to be less restrictive. We're just trying to figure out how this ordinance should be interpreted. Councilman Berquist: ...definition of excessive. 13 City Council Meeting - March 25, 1996 John Rask: And we get people who have maybe just purchased the lake lot, it's an existing lot and they want to know, you know they have kind of an idea of how they want to landscape the front and ho~v they ~vant to utilize the lakeshore so they call the city and they ask, you know what can be done. We say well you can't do anything that's intensive. Well, so this should kind of provide some guidelines for them to work in. Councilman Berquist: And when they say what does that mean and you go, well I don't know. Right7 John Rask: Yeah. Yeah, we say well, you can't clear-cut the whole thing. You should try to leave some vegetation here and there to leave that natural buffer. You know of course try to explain what the ordinance is all about. This all gets back to improving the lake quality and water quality by maintaining the natural buffer so we don't have established lawn or beaches going the entire length of the lot. And we have been pretty successful in just ~vorking with people but again, there comes those instances where it's not, we're not real sure which way to go with it and if we had something that was more specific, it would be easier for us to communicate to the people who are inquiring about it or to the people who have violated it. Councilman Berquist: The other note that I had regarded other municipalities and there's other municipalities with a lot of lakeshore around here. Did you contact them as to how they're handling... John Rask: Yeah. We did not find any others that had a similar provision. We contacted the DNR. They have reviewed it. This is similar to what's used in Wisconsin. The entire state of Wisconsin under their shoreland regs has a very similar provision. It's 30%-30 feet but they have actually they're more restrictive than this but other communities in Minnesota, no. We did not find. We checked with the DNR on it. Councilman Berquist: Okay, thank you. Councilwoman Dockendorf: So other cities do have the shoreline regulation. They just don't quantify it like... John Rask: Yeah. This is the language that appears. That's required by Statute to the dot. Councilwoman Dockendorf: Okay. Alright, and no one's taken it any further that ~ve're aware of?. John Rask: No. They've discussed it and a lot of them recognize it as a problem when we were talking to the other communities and they haven't. Councilwoman Dockendorf: Well you -know, my first concern ~vas you give someone a number and they achieve up to it. As long as we communicate it with some discussion about the intent and currently what you have to do now, instead of just handing them an ordinance, kind of explain what the intent of it is and you know I see this as something to fall back on in those instances where they've really gone overboard. I guess I don't see the harm. Mayor Chmiel: Okay. John, xvith this new ordinance, probably make those property owners aware of the fact that this is going to happen and xvhereby a lot of them just automatically going into their shoreland and just doing that... John Rask: Yeah. Again, this is. Mayor Chmiel: If they don't ask. 14 City Council Meeting - March 25, 1996 John Rask: Yeah. Well again, the provision's always been there since we've adopted the ordinance. We're just trying to establish that in a numeric standard. So no, we haven't contacted the Lake Associations with this. They haven't been notified directly. It xvill appear in the paper of course as in public forum. Mayor Chmiel: Well that was one of the suggestions I was going to make. At least get to a good share of those that do have a lake association and probably eliminate a lot of the given problems that could occur. Okay. Any other questions? Is there a motion? Councilman Berquist: I move approval of the first reading. Councilwoman Dockendorf: Second. Councilman Berquist moved, Councilwoman Dockendorf seconded to approve the first reading of the Amendment to Section 20-482 of the City Code Regarding Removal or Alteration of Vegetation in the Shoreland District All voted in favor and the motion carded. CONSIDER SITE PLAN REVIEW APPROVAL OF A RETAIL BUILDING OF 8,321 SQ. FF.; LOTS 2 AND 3~ BLOCK 1~ MARKET SQUARE, MARKET SQUARE 3 PARTNERS, INC, LOTUS REALTY. Mayor Chmiel: Are you ready for us to go back to 5? Okay. Item 5 is to consider site plan review approval of a retail building of 8,321 square feet. Lots 2 and 3, Block 1, Market Square, Market Square 3 Partners Incorporated, Lotus Realty. Sharmin. Sharmin Al-Jarl: This site is located xvest of West, sorry about that. South of West 78th Street and north of Subxvay. It is zoned planned unit development. The PUD for this site was approved in 1990. The architecture of the retail building attempts to reflect the existing use of rock face block foundation found on Market Square shopping center. Burgundy sconce lighting xvith tile medallions, green metal to cap the roof line, stucco facade, and burgundy canvas awnings to match the shopping center. This type of architecture and materials used is similar in quality to the rest of the shopping center and is consistent ~vith downtown. The applicant will go into more detail when discussing the architecture and the materials used on the building. Site access is provided via existing shopping center curb cuts on Kerber Boulevard and West 78th Street. The landscaping of the site is generally of high quality. This item was reviewed and approved by the Planning Commission. There is one issue that we would like to bring to your attention. The applicant is showing signage on four sides of the building. The ordinance alloxvs a maximum of two sides and typically they would have to face a public right- of-way. One of the things that needs to also be pointed out is there are free standing buildings currently at the Market Square Center, Edina Realty and Wendy's. Both those buildings have signage on two elevations only. If this building was approved for more than two facias, then you're opening the door for the other two free standing buildings to potentially come before you and request the same. One of the problems that the applicant sees is the westerly elevation. Staff is recommending that signage be limited to the north and south elevations so it would be elevations facing West 78th as well as the elevation facing the shopping center. The west elevation will have the entrance into the hair salon. The aPplicant would like to have signage identifying the entrance. Staff believes that they could utilize some window signage rather than having a third elevation outside. It's a straight forward site plan and staff is recommending approval of this application with conditions outlined in the staff report. Thank you. Mayor Chmiel: Okay, thanks Sharmin. Steve, do you have any questions of Sharmin at this time? 15 City Council Meeting - March 25, 1996 Councilman Berquist: The staff is recommending north, south signs. Not north, west signs. Using the west side as window signage is what you are in favor oP?. Sharmin A1-Jaff: Correct. Actually any two elevations will work but as long as they limit it to two elevations only. Councilman Berquist: Okay. Is the applicant in agreement with you or is he going to make a case otherwise? Sharmin AI-Jaff: At a later date maybe because this has not been published for a variance on this site. Councilman Berquist: Okay. Colleen. Councilwoman Dockendorf: I'm trying to think of a window sign. Would that be like a neon thing or, all I can think of really is Tacos, 99 cents. Well we can deal with that if a variance is requested. I'm concerned about the floxv of traffic and perhaps that can be addressed in your presentation but was that looked into in depth. It just seems, that whole place is a mess. Sharmin AI-Jaff: Yes, you might want to address. Dave Hempel: One of the modifications you'll see in this parking lot is the access out of Kerber Boulevard. Right now it does narroxv down to approximately 22 feet. 20 feet in some eases on the back side behind Subway. This development, they will increase the curb or the drive aisle width back there to 24 feet. Councilxvoman Doekendorf: But you still need some stacking distance before that. I mean my concern is this. Dave Hempel: You'll still have the curvalinear drive, that's for sure. It does slow traffic down though. But it should open that up a little bit to make it a little more comfortable if there was two cars passing behind Subway. Councilwoman Dockendorf: Sharmin, in your report you're saying that xve're meeting the existing PUD agreements, which kind of leads me to believe that although it's what's required, you xvish there would be more. Sharmin A1-Jaff: Actually the quality of the building has been increased. Councilwoman Dockendorf: It meets current? Sharmin A1-Jaff: Yes. Yes it does. Landscaping meets current requirements. I think we have a good project. Council~voman Dockendorf: Okay. Those are my questions. Mayor Chmiel: Okay. I guess I had the same concern you did with that one Colleen. As I brought up last time, that turn through there was rather difficult and it gets very close with two people coming around and I guess one of the concerns I had was there any xvay we could widen that to make that a little safer. Part of it, when I say safer, I don't know, has there been any accidents filed at the city in regard to that in that location? Dave Hempel: I'm not aware of any and being on private property like that, I'm not sure the city would be notified in some of those instances. Staff has looked at other alternatives. To access out directly onto Kerber 16 City Council Meeting ~ March 25, 1996 Boulevard to try and reduce or eliminate that curvalinear driveway. However, the grade difference at that point would make a very steep driveway pitch out on the curb as well as reduce the stacking distance at the intersection of Kerber and West 78th Street so we felt it was important to maintain that stacking distance and try to widen the drive aisle. I think we did succeed in widening it to 26 feet actually from that point so it's 4 to 5 feet wider than what it is currently out there today. Mayor Chmiel: Thanks. Sharmin. On the setback from the right-of-~vay on 78th Street. How much, what are we at with that? Do you have any idea? Sharmin Al-Jarl: 25 feet. Mayor Chmiel: Is it 25? Okay. Sharmin A1-Jaff: Which is consistent with the location of Edina Realty. It would maintain that same setback. Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Alright. Is the applicant here and willing to address your proposal.'? Vernelle Clayton: We're all here. My name is Vemelle Clayton. I live at 422 Santa Fe Circle here in Chanhassen and xve're presenting to you tonight the proposal for the last development of Market Square...this is the last undeveloped outlot and actually it's two outlots that we're combining into one, as Sharmin mentioned. The ownership is the same as the ownership of Market Square I, the contractor will be the same. Amcon Corporation...Market Square II. The tenants will be Redmond Products and they'll be having their new stylist choice concept under the name of Capelli, which you may have read in the paper, it means hair. And very appropriate choice. It will be very much an upscale salon or retail outlets for them. Customers can watch their shampoos being mixed in a shampoo bar and they're planning some really marvelous and... The balance of the space though...bagel shop and we will continue to lease that space. The staff report has...reflect that there have been a few items to work on. I think you've talked a little bit about some of them just a minute ago and.., to the satisfaction of staff and the Planning Commission, all the questions or...that were proposed. There was a relocation or addition to...people get from our proposed building to the Subway sidewalk.. We've made a fe~v observations in the parking area of the staff report that at one point there was a...so xve eliminated that spot and still have one up front...In response to your earlier observations and our's with respect to traffic around the north end of the building...I drive around there at least once a day and I know what it is you're speaking of. We also manage the building and we have never had a report of an accident...or something but nothing that...property damage because they would have contacted us if that were the case so I sometimes say, some~vhat jokingly... It might be a little uncomfortable for those of us around here...we all talk about the need for having...And so we are presenting the plan with the curve and without having those...and we think a terrific building. We're particularly pleased with the building because it accomplishes a couple of things that are important to us. ...building that is a part of Market Square. And the other was to have a building...but before I do that I do want to mention a couple of things...discuss the conditions of approval. We have talked to...staff and the Planning Commission about all of them and...and that is we miscounted the...We are prepared to go through the process of complying xvith the ordinance and the covenants of record...signs no higher than 30 inches and on only two sides of the building to reflect the north and south sides of the building. We are continuing to try to meet the needs and desires of the tenant...Redmond who's front door will be on the west side and their comer unsigned. If we come up with a plan xve think might be feasible and acceptable to staff...we'll be back...possibility of a variance. In the meantime, Bill will explain to you a little bit about the...we're anxious to get on with the project. We're anxious to get on with looking at it. We are looking to have a construction start this spring and ...and we think this is a great project. Both for the businesses...exciting building visually and exciting tenants to 17 City Council Meeting - March 25, 1996 add to our...possibilities here in Chanhassen. With that I would like to...answer any questions that you might have of the project. Then I'd like to tell you who we have in the audience... Dale Almquist of Redmond Products... (There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.) Bill Brisley: ...is a quality material that has been freely used by architects and builders for decades in our area and actually centuries in other parts of the world. It is compatible with the brick, stone, glass and metal. It can be used or it can be found on buildings of quality in any community. If you picture a high end traditional, older neighborhood like Kenwood near Lake of the Isles and around Lake Harriet, or even old Edina located west of 50th and France you'll find as much as 30% of the buildings with stucco as the exterior wall material. Of the quality of man}, of the materials used in that neighborhood...stucco is considered a maintenance free product and is generally regarded closer to brick and stone relative to quality. Today it's commercially used for similar reasons. Durability. Flexibility. Design appeal. Any shape that can be formed out of wood or styrofoam can be surfaced with stucco. Architects like it because they can create a nec-traditional building element such as detailed...multi-revealed eaves and cornices, distinct window heads and sills, wall faces and... These elements once only were cut from stone or painstakingly pieced together with brick... A marvelous example of this is found on the new Gap store at the corner of Hennepin and Lake. As a wall material, stucco is light and clean in a spiritual sense and when used skillfully today can enliven and elevate the mood of a building for a warm, sunny ambience. It is in the spirit of a...that the Redmond's strongly desire to maintain this material on their new salon building. The following videotape will show examples of buildings in other communities that have embraced this material as a quality of choice. It also brings to mind the intentions... As an architect I'm convinced that the quality, permanence and fresh innovative design shows...buildings is D'Amico in the downtown area. This whole idea of this videotape is to give you ~ feeling that these are quality buildings that are xvorthy of being in Chanhassen area and are also very compatible with brick buildings... This is a choice that D'Amico made and spent over a million dollars on this building. This is the xvhite old gallery in Edina. To give you an idea of what it's like to have stucco amongst other brick buildings. In a high quality... This next one is called the Collective Salon and it's in Edina, 50th and France also. After this we have Dayton's in Southdale. I think evers'body's familiar with that. That was probably one of the most expensive, visible renovations in this area. Just a little bit of marble...majority of this building is stucco. This is called Uno, across France from Dayton's. Also stucco. A lot of details. This is more... Since xve came in the first time, let me just review a few of the things that we've done to the building. We added these horizontal lines...which is a typical way to use stucco...We have two lines of green metal up on top that are permanent green metal. We changed the stucco to a darker, richer, warm brown rather than the gray which was the original center. Very compatible with the original center but this much warmer, a more updated feeling. The rock face block that matches the retaining wall. This retaining xvall and our face...the platform for the building is in this same brown stucco...And the two of them match exactly. The texture is representative...and the wall material is also, as I said, it's exactly the same material and will match... On the site plan itself we widened...26 feet from 22 so that's much, much easier to negotiate. We moved the stairs...southwest corner over. This is fairly steep right here. It's about 2 1/2 feet...what we wanted to do is line this up with the front of the building but right in here is so narrow that we...but it does work well with...We added climbing vines on the south facing retaining wall per staff's recommendation. I think this will soften. This is a long retaining wall here... So this same height is maintained all the xvay down this entire length here...plant vines for a softer, more natural wall. The signage and the lighting, we are going to come back and talk about that but what we're proposing at this point is...we would want to use two normal signs...in terms of neon lighting and metal...So the north and the south will...of this building and then one single painted sign that would be externally lit. At one point...we talked about doing all of the signs that way and it was suggested that painted signs is not actually a sign. What we would do is 18 City Council Meeting - March 25, 1996 paint it so that it look as if it were etched. As you can see in this rendering how that might look if you look closely here. There would be shadoxvs painted right into it. So it looks as if it's etched in stone and give that appearance. Especially when lit at night. And the lighting would come from up lights found just above the canopies... I think the issue that more than two signs is excessive. You actually cannot see more than two signs when looking at this building from any direction so. Signage...is indicated on elevation 4. Based on typographics sensibility and balance with respect to a specific wall rather than objective ordinance specifications and we have reduced them to the 30 inches that was requested. We hope to have signage on all three walls... with the concession of...third sign at night with an up sconce type lighting or some other... This painted sign is much more subtle and attractive and wholly a part of the architecture. The lighting will light up each of the three sections of the building above the canopy center section and...side sections... The Commission had concerns about the sidewalk lighting on the north wall. I want to assure you the lighting is specified as the same quality and intensity that's on the Market Square walls...north walk and all walks for that matter. It will be similar to the main center. In fact probably more ambient to the back... Thank you very much. Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. Vernelle Clayton: ...but just to clarify xvhere we are on the sign issue. I'm going to shoxv you some of the alternatives that xve talked about. Tonight xve're not asking for a painted on sign. We're proposing the normal... Mayor Chmiel: Steve, do you have any questions in regard to this proposal? Councilman Berquist: Yes I do. What's the maximum footprint of the building structure that could go on this site? Sharmin A1-Jaff: What they're proposing is probably. Councilman Berquist: Pretty close to being max'd out? Sharmin AI-Jaff: Very much so. Councilman Berquist: Okay. I had written a comment while Vemelle was talking. It's interesting approach. That parking lot enhances safety by reducing speeds with increased congestion. Councilxvoman Dockendorf: ...interpretation of it ho~vever. Councilman Berquist: I don't have any problems whatsoever with the way the building looks. I don't have any problems whatsoever with the way on the lot the building sits. I wish frankly that the lot were a little bit bigger because I think as time goes on, that lot is simply going to become more and more congested. More and more of a problem. I know in your report you talk about this serving as an opportunity to improve a bad situation. You meaning Dave. But I think the increase in traffic through the area is going to negate any improvement because the level of congestion, the level of traffic is going to be greater. I know the site is buildable at 8,321 square foot. That's the maximum footprint. I understand the economics behind that. I'm certainly in favor of seeing the site built out. On the other hand, it just seems like an awful lot for right there. That's only a comment. I'm not going to cast a vote against the project because of that but it just seems very cramped and very congested and I hope in my mind's eye that I'm going to be wrong. Mayor Chmiel: Okay, Colleen. 19 City Council Meeting - March 25, 1996 Councilwoman Dockendorf: Well I'm not so much concerned about the traffic congestion for Capelli's but if we get a Brueggers in there, it's going to be a madhouse. And I'm concerned that we only have 8 slots that are going to be, xvhere you can get to the entrance of a bagel shop without crossing traffic. And like Steve, it's only a comment. You can't restrict the kind of tenants we put in. The building materials, I don't have a problem with. The stucco, I'm more concerned about the color and whether you think that's compatible with the rest of the project. I know that the Edina Realty building and Wendy's are much different from the rest of the center. It seems like this is going to be, it's going to make the rest of the center look old is my concern. You know you put a couple sconces up that match and put some burgundy stripes on it, it looks like the newer, richer, step daughter or xvhatever. I guess that's all I have to say. I'm mostly concerned about, and I don't know, it looks like we have some~vhat of a, because people are going to be parking in the Edina Realty parking lot, I would think primarily. Or maybe, I don't know. Either way, we've only got 8 slots ~vhere you can get a good access to the entrance to the second tenant so. Sharmin. Sharmin AI-Jaff: Most probably xvhat they will do is park within the westerly parking lot and then just walk along the sidewalk. Councilwoman Doekendorf: I don't, well, I mean. Councilman Berquist: That's the way it's designed. Councilwoman Dockendorf: Yeah well. Mayor Chmiel: Okay, Sharmin. That building, what is the setback from the road coming in to the center where that is at right noxv? Hoxv many foot setback is that? Sharmin A1-Jaff: It's 25 feet from the property line. Mayor Chmiel: A total of 25 feet for the setback. Yes, on each side. Sharmin Al-Jaff: The property line is in the center of the road. And that's where we're taking our setback from. It's a private road. It's not a public street. Mayor Chmiel: Right, and I realize that. I was just looking at the proximity as to where it's sitting there as to xvhat is on the back side of it to the west. And those two, they don't look like they're the same depth from one point to the other. And I would imagine that they may have something like tables maybe on the outside of that xvalkxvay area. Sharmin A1-Jaff: It's something that was talked about that maybe they could do that. Mayor Chmiel: My thinking was, if it was back a little more, that would give them more room within that front portion. On the east side .... Dave Hempel: The grade difference is quite severe there. Mayor Chmiel: Is it? Dave Hempel: Sloping to the south. 20 City Council Meeting - March 25, 1996 Mayor Chmiel: Yes. Okay. The other concern I had too that Colleen picked up on as well, with the request that we had for Edina as well as Wendy's with brick. How is this going to look in that particular location? In it's traditional kind of construction or kind of building. Is that the way we would really like to see it? Sharmin AI-Jaff: Well the planned unit development particularly states that any building would have to be compatible with the existing building. So to tie the brick with the stucco on the existing Market Square shopping center, we thought go with the stucco but use shades of browns and beiges. This way you're taking the colors from the brick buildings and using materials from the Festival building. But it's compatible. It meets the intent of the planned unit development. And Vernelle did a complete study of West 78th Street in general. Looked at all of the different buildings and presented it at the Planning Commission meeting and that was one of the concerns that the Planning Commission had too. And the Planning Commission, as well as staff, concluded that yes, this building is compatible with overall, with downtown. Vernelle Clayton: I don't go into it nearly as much as I did with the Planning Commission but we did a study of both buildings along West 78th and down the existing... We found that there were nine buildings... representative of wood. Stucco's represented by red. Brick is yelloxv and...We have the same kind of material used at both ends of the entertainment complex...I think we have to be careful that xve don't overdue on any one material in toxvn. We need to have a mix. Interestingly enough there have been less and less wood...and it is what gave Chanhassen it's nice, friendly... Brick is a much colder. It's harder to work with. It's harder to update. If this were to go along...this is a nice looking building...but there are brick shopping centers that...and it usually takes quite a while beyond the time it should have been done... All these others can be quite easily updated. There's much more flexibility. Any building out of wood can be easily updated...and for retail, it's important that you're on the cutting edge of what's now. So it's important that while retail buildings are flexible. I think we have a fairly decent balance here. I think that probably...perhaps we have good looking and not so good looking brick buildings already. We have a wonderful new brick building right next to it. Another really wonderful brick building which is just across the street, the Chanhassen Bank. Those buildings are probably in my judgment the best looking buildings in town: They're both brick but they're institutional. This is a civic type...building but you expect to see...Market Square is a nice looking...This is sort of what you'll see... Councilxvoman Dockendorf: What is it? Vemelle Clayton: This is Richfield Bank. This neighbor right...I think it is. I think it's going to be, we're going to be tying in with those same colors with Market Square...We do treat it all as one complex. We'll put coordinated color... (There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.) Councilwoman Dockendorf moved, Councilman Berquist seconded to approve the Site Plan for Market Square HI (#95-22 SPR) as sho~vn on the site plan dated Febmary 7, 1996, with the following conditions: The applicant shall enter into a site plan agreement with the city and provide the necessary financial security to guarantee compliance with the conditions of approval. The applicant must obtain a sign permit prior to erecting any signage on site. There is one existing monument sign on the site. The sign meets the following criteria: 21 City Council Meeting - March 25, 1996 a. The height of the monument sign shall not exceed 12' 10" (the height of the existing Market Square sign). b. The sign shall contain no more than 41 square feet of sign area per face. c. The sign shall be constructed to reflect the architectural style of the Market Square shopping center. d. The owner of each monument sign shall be responsible for it's construction, repair, maintenance and/or replacement. The applicant is showing wall mounted signs on four elevations. The plans must be amended to meet the follo~ving criteria: a. The letters and logos shall be restricted to 30 inches in height and must be lighted. b. All individual letters and logos comprising each sign shall have a minimum depth of five inches and shall be constructed with a translucent facing over neon tube illumination. c. The signage shall be located on a maximum of two elevations of the buildings to be constructed. Approval of the site plan is contingent upon the consolidation of Lots 2 and 3 into one lot. Fire Marshal conditions: A ten foot clear space must be maintained around fire hydrants. City Ordinance 9-1. (Relocate the Skyline Locust a minimum of ten feet away from the fire hydrant.) Cross reference page SD-5 and SD-3. Comply with the following policies: 04-1991 - copy enclosed 07-1191 - copy enclosed 29-1992 - copy enclosed 34-1993 - copy enclosed 35-1994 - copy enclosed 36-1994 - copy enclosed "No Parking Fire Lane" signs along xvith yellow painted curbing shall be provided on the entrance road east of the proposed building. Sign spacing must comply with Policy //06-1991. Copy enclosed. Park and trail dedication fees shall be paid to the city pursuant to the city ordinances and City Council resolutions at the rate then in force upon building permit application. The applicant must provide staff with preservation plans for the eight (8) existing trees. The applicant may not leave existing oaks and spruce in place during grading, if grading is to come within ten feet of the tree. All existing and new trees will be guaranteed for two years. The applicant shall provide access on the southwest corner of the building to Market Square mall sidewalk. The applicant shall verify that 31 feather reed grass plants will be used for landscaping. The ;vidth of the existing drive aisle along the south side of the development shall be increased to a minimum of 26 feet wide face-to-face. All driveway curb cut openings shall be a minimum of 26 feet wide face-to-face as ;vell. 22 City Council Meeting - March 25, 1996 10. The applicant shall work xvith city staff in relocating the existing utility and traffic control boxes 'and the existing oak trees along West 78th Street. The plans shall be revised accordingly. The applicant shall dedicate to the city a utility easement for the traffic control box if it is located outside of the city's right- of-way or utility and drainage easements. 11. The steps along the southwest comer of the building shall be relocated approximately 30 feet to the east. 12. On the south parking lot, the xvesterly shall be eliminated or the length of the parking stalls lengthened by four feet. The applicant shall add a retaining wall or equivalent concrete wall between the southerly sidexvalk and the southerly parking lot where the deviation is greater than one foot in height. 13. The applicant shall enter into an encroachment agreement with the city for the trash enclosure and landscaping materials located xvithin the city's drainage and utility easement. 14. The erosion control plan shall be revised to extend erosion control Type I fence along the south side of the construction limits. The plans shall incorporate the City's erosion control detail plate for Type I erosion control fence. 15. Construction access shall be limited to the interior driveways and not from West 78th Street or Kerber Boulevard. 16. 17. The landscape plan shall be revised to shoxv the proposed sidewalks and steps on the south side of the building and relocate plant materials accordingly. The applicant shall dedicate to the city a street and utility easement over the west five feet of the northerly 60 feet of the lot. 18. The applicant shall apply for and obtain the necessary utility permits for extension of utilities to the building from the City's Building Department. 19. All roof top equipment shall be screened. 20. The applicant shall investigate integrating capping materials into the rock face block proposed to be used for the retaining wall. 21. The materials used to build the trash enclosures shall be compatible with the proposed Market Square II1 building. 22. The materials used on the proposed building shall be identical to those shown at the March 6, 1996 Planning Commission meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carded. 23 City Council Meeting - March 25, 1996 AMENDMENT TO SECTION 20-1255(9) TEMPORARY DEVELOPMENT SIGNS~ SECTION 20-1301(2) AREA IDENTIFICATION SIGNS; AND SECTION 20-1 DEFINITIONS; FIRST READING. John Rask: Thank you Mr. Mayor. Again we have a request this evening for some minor amendments to the ordinance. These are some glitches that have kind of appeared since we adopted the sign ordinance back in January of, it should be '95. It says '96 here. As I pointed out, a lot of times ~ve have people picking up copies of the sign ordinance without talking to staff. Several of these amendments that the signs, such as temporary development signs, do not require permits so we don't get a chance to really talk to some of these people before the sign goes up. And most of the amendments are just to clarify the language, and just to briefly go through those. The first one, Section 20-1255(9)(a), that one I think is pretty self explanatory. It just reads, pretty much just...that one sentence. The next one, Section 20-1301(2). Entrance signs. Originally it read only one monument sign may be erected on a lot. I think the intent, the definition should lead one to believe that entrance signs was intended to be put at the entrance. So we're just cleaning that up. And then the last one, the definition, this was in conflict with the body of the ordinance which within the text itself, we set specific height requirements for monument signs depending on what district they're located in. So again this is kind of conflict and created some confusion as far as the height of both ground low profile business signs so. With that we're recommending approval of the ordinance amendments as presented in the staff report. Mayor Chmiel: Good, thanks John. Steve, do you have any questions? Councilman Berquist: I do. John, in the Planning Commission Minutes, I was confused. There was a lot of discussion regarding the canopy that went on the Century Bank and there's a little bit of discussion regarding the monument sign at Pointe Lake Lucy. Which specifically, one of these three modifications are relative to that Century Bank one? John Rask: Neither of them. That was kind of a tangent we got off on. They wanted to know, that's our famous sign in town now and everybody seems to want to kno~v how that all came about and how they were permitted signage on that canopy. Councilman Berquist: It wasn't as offensive as I thought it would...taking them item by item. The first item regarding construction signs. Development signs. What about a site that encompasses four frontages. John Rask: They'd still be limited to two. Councilman Berquist: What about a site that encompasses, has two frontages within a quarter mile stretch. John Rask: They'd still be limited to two. Councilman Berquist: I think that's being pretty limiting. Okay. John Rask: Again, that's the way it originally read. Some people got confused because it said, just the way it was worded, it led some to believe that maybe it was, that maybe you got two non-illuminated and one illuminated or we got all kinds of crazy interpretations on that. Councilman Berquist: Coming from a business perspective, developers or builders are planning on...project, obviously they're coming to Chanhassen to make money. Surely Chanhassen hopefully will benefit in one xvay or another. And it just appears to me that we're getting quite restrictive in the amount of development signs that 24 City Council Meeting o March 25, 1996 we're enabling them to put up. That's item one. Okay, and I...agreement with that. The second item. Area identification, entrance signs. Does this mean that a development such as Longacres? John Rask: Correct. Councilman Berquist: Could only have one main entrance? John Rask: One per entrance. Councilman Berquist: So the secondary entrance on Galpin would still be able to have the monument? John Rask: Correct. Councilman Berquist: Does this mean that both sides of the entry couldn't be bracketed? John Rask: No. Councilman Berquist: It doesn't. John Rask: No. They could still do the monuments. They just couldn't put the signage. So if they wanted to do pillars, like they constructed pillars and a fence made that nice entry, that would still be permitted...put up one sign to begin with but that's all they would be permitted. Councilman Berquist: What if they wanted to have a balanced entry? In other words, they xvanted to have 12 square feet on one and 12 square feet on the other, that wouldn't be permitted the way the ordinance reads? John Rask: No. Councilman Berquist: John Rask: Correct. Councilman Berquist: ...maximum of 24. That would not be permitted. Okay. And the reasoning behind this was that... John Rask: There is, xve had had a request to locate a sign away from the entrance. In this particular instance it was on the comer of TH 101 and Pioneer for the proposed subdivision. The subdivider there, the applicant was inquiring about putting them out at the comer away from the entrance to the subdivision. In making my interpretation, I looked at it and it said entrance sign. To me an entrance sign goes to the entrance. Councilman Berquist: This is a pre-construction of the pre-development entrance sign? John Rask: This was to go, a permanent sign. Councilman Berquist: Ah, I see. Identifying the project at that comer. At that major arterial intersection. John Rask: Correct. 25 City Council Meeting - March 25, 1996 Councilman Berquist: Okay. And that's what driving this? John Rask: Partly. When you just, to read that only one sign per lot. Well what does that mean really and what I did is just spelled out main entrance and just to clarify what the intent of that was. Councilman Berquist: Okay. I've got a couple ideas that I'd like to at least bounce off you before the final reading goes through. The other, the last item on that was change wording to read, low maintenance. Change wording to read low maintenance as opposed to maintenance free. And maybe define...I don't know if you want to define construction materials. And add, and the surrounding ground and landscaped areas to clarify the associations maintenance responsibility as opposed to limiting it to the identification entrance sign. You with me? John Rask: Yep. Councilman Berquist: And then last, but not least is Section 20-1. I'm quoting from the ordinance. It says sign, ground Iow profile business means a business sign affixed directly to the ground, and/or solid base. And then the last sentence...which directs attention to a business, commodity, product, or service or product offered on the premises. What's the other option? As opposed to what? John Rask: I'm just trying to provide a clearer definition. Councilman Berquist: Given that sentence, any time I have something on our sign down at Merit regarding St. Hubert's or Boy Scouts or...or anything else, I would be in violation of the sign ordinance. John Rask: No. Councilman Berquist: Yes. John Rask: Well yeah, on your...community messages you can say that... Councilman Berquist: But it's a low profile ground sign. Councilxvoman Dockendorf: So does a reader board, is that in a different category? John Rask: Yeah. It xvould be counted within your sign area. You're allowed say in a group of monument signs 64 square feet. If you want to put, if you have a reader board and want to put something about a civic event, xve do allow community signs and so forth in the ordinance. Just the same as we allow political signs. Councilman Berquist: Say what? John Rask: Political signs. Community signs. Things like that. Advertising for an office. Councilman Berquist: So that last sentence you think that last sentence doesn't need to be there or it does? John Rask: It could just as easily go. It's kind of redundant. We have other definitions of what a sign is. 26 City Council Meeting - March 25, 1996 Councilman Berquist: Alright. And then those are my issues. I've got them written and I'll certainly give them to you. Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Colleen. Councilwoman Dockendorf: Well I don't know if I could possibly add anything. Mayor Chmiel: I think he covered it. Councilwoman Doekendorf.' No, I have no comments. Mayor Chmiel: I don't either. Okay, is there a motion? Councilman Berquist: I will move approval of the following amendments as described in the staff report dated March 19, 1996 and shown in Attachment #1. However, I will provide John a copy of the questions and concerns that I have regarding the amendments and hopefully come to an agreement as to how they will work in to clean up the glitches even more. Mayor Chmiel: Okay, is there a second? Councilwoman Dockendorf: Yes. Councilman Berquist moved, Councihvoman Dockendorf seconded to approve the following amendments as dcscrlbcd in thc staff report dated March 19, 1996, as shown in Attachment #1 and clarified by Councilman Berquist per ~vrltten submittal: 1. Amend Section 20-1255(9)(a) to read: "Not more than one (1) non-illuminated sign per street frontage, provided that the total number of signs do not exceed two (2) per project. 2. Amend Section 20-1301(2) Area identification/entrance signs to read: "Only one (1) monument sign may be erected at the primary entrance(s), which shall not exceed twenty-four (24) square feet of sign display area, nor be more than five (5) feet high. Any such sign or monument shall be designed so that it is maintenance free. The adjacent property owner or a homeowners association shall be responsible for maintenance of the identification/entrance sign. Such sign shall be located so as not to conflict with traffic visibility or street maintenance operation, and shall be securely anchored to the ground." 3. Section 20-1, Definitions. Sign, ground low profile business, means a business sign affixed directly to the ground, which directs attention to a business, commodity, service, or product offered on the premises. All voted in favor and the motion carded. Roger Knutson: Mr. Mayor? Mayor Chmiel: Yes Roger. 27 City Council Meeting - March 25, 1996 Roger Knutson: One item. In response, you asked about advertising for Boy Scouts or anything like that can be on...sign. There's a general provision in the ordinance that says signs containing non-commercial...permitted anywhere that signs are permitted subject to the same regulations... So when you have a sign like this... Councilman Berquist: So if ~ve allow this amendment to go through, we'd be in conflict with that? Roger Knutson: No. This says...low signs down low profile business, you could put... Councihnan Berquist: Okay. So the sentence, which directs attention to a business, commodity, service or product offered on the premises really adds no value then because it's further defined within another ordinance? Roger Knutson: It does though because...For example if this sign is on the Edina Realty property. You couldn't say... Councilman Berquist: Now you've really confused me. Off premise advertising. Roger Knutson: A billboard. Councilman Berquist: A billboard? Roger Knutson: Yeah, that's off premise advertising. Councilman Berquist: So if I were to put up something regarding Chanhassen Pep Fest, is that...public service. Roger Knutson: As long as it's not a commercial. Public service you can do it. What you can't do is advertise a commercial product that you're not selling on that premises. Councilman Berquist: So if one my neighbors down the road came to me and said, hey I've got a great deal on docks .... putting out on my sign, I couldn't do it? Roger Knutson: That's correct. Councilman Berquist: Okay. COMMISSION APPOINTMENTS: A. PLANNING COMM/SSION, B. PUBLIC SAFETY COMMISSION. Mayor Chmiel: The Council met and interviewed. We came up with a conclusion as to those applicants who were chosen for the job and each of those people are going to be notified by mail and informed of their positions. We had for both of those, there was an agreement time that everyone concurred with those appointments. And each of those members will be notified. Right? Don Ashxvorth: Right. Councilman Berquist: Well not necessarily. 28 City Council Meeting - March 25, 1996 Mayor Chmiel: What do you mean? Councilman Berquist: Well xve agreed on the Planning Commission. I do hoxvever think that it's prudent on our part to interview the other two members, the other two citizens that applied for the Public Safety Commission. I don't disagree that the choices will probably prove to be the same. However, I think without interviewing and...is not proper. We circumvent the process. So Don made reference in his memo to reconvening and contacting those two gentlemen for interviews and I would go along with that. Mayor Chmiel: How does that come out? Don Ashworth: The manager's comment? Mayor Chmiel: Yeah. Don Ashworth: In talking with Public Safety I found out that you did not interview the two existing members. Mayor Chmiel: That's correct. Don Ashworth: And so your existing policy says that you're going to do that so I'm just posing the question. You don't have to do that. Mayor Chmiel: Well no mine, and maybe I'm wrong. But my understanding was that these three people that xve went through were chosen from that particular commission and even though two others were not there, I think that's a consensus. Councilwoman Dockendorf.' Yeah there was. Mayor Chmiel: That was my understanding. Councilman Berquist: Well insofar as I've never interviewed the two gentlemen that weren't there, I would like to do that prior to naming them. Mayor Chmiel: Well if you feel you want to do that yourself, that'd be fine. I don't have any problems. Councilwoman Doekendorf: Why don't we take care of the Planning Commission one and then table the other. Mayor Chmiel: Okay, let's do it. Councilxvoman Dockendorf: I xvould move that we appoint Nancy Man¢ino, Craig Peterson, and Kevin Joyce to the Planning Commission. Councilman Berquist: I'll second those three. Councilwoman Dockendorf moved, Councilman Benluist seconded to appoint Nancy Manclno, Craig Peterson and Kevin Joycc to ~he Planning Commission. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Councilwoman Dockendorf: I move that we table the Public Safety Commission appointments. 29 City Council Meeting - March 25, 1996 Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Is there a second? Councilman Berquist: Second. Councilwoman Dockendorf moved, Councilman Berquist seconded to table the appointments to the Public Safety Commission meeting. All voted in favor, except Mayor Chmiel who opposed, and file motion carried with a vote of 2 to 1. Mayor Chmiel: As it was my understanding. Councilman Berquist: Right, and I appreciate that. I'll get with Don prior to the next meeting. Don Ashworth: Clarification, if I may Mr. Mayor. Mayor Chmiel: Yes. Don Ashworth: On the Planning Commission, the way I read this, Kate was hoping you would select an alternate in case we did end up with a. But there wasn't any discussions when we did that and therefore no alternate was really decided Mayor Chmiel: upon. Don Ashworth: Okay. Councilman Berquist: Does she know something we don't? Don Ashxvorth: No, but we've had kind of a track record of... Councilwoman Dockendorf: May I suggest that we appoint Michael Buchner as the alternate? Mayor Chmiel: Well we can do that, sure. I don't have any problem. Councilman Berquist: Well that would be my choice, if I was to make a choice. Although. Mayor Chmiel: But we had the other two members who were not, who were there and. Don Ashworth: Whatever the Council wishes to do. Councilman Berquist: It's my opinion that if we're faced with that dilemma to re-advertise. Although I don't really have any problem with the alternate either but. Council~voman Dockendorf: No I think, I withdraw my motion. I think that's a good idea. Mayor Chmiel: Which? Councilwoman Dockendorf: To re-apply. Or re-advertise, excuse me. 30 City Council Meeting - March 25, 1996 COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS: COMMITFEE REPORTS: A.~. SOUTHWEST METRO TRANSIT COMMISSION~ COUNCILWOMAN DOCKENDORF. Councilwoman Dockendorf: We generally have monthly meetings. Hoxvever, the one in February was cancelled and we have one this coming Thursday. Nonetheless just to, the biggest item on our plate is we have legislation pending at the Capitol which would transfer the levy authority, well you've all heard about this. So the money doesn't pass through the Met Council. We directly levy the communities. That has passed the House floor and it was in the form of an amendment to a larger bill. It's currently being debated in the Senate and we will certainly know more by the end of the week because I think they're wrapping up legislation probably this week or the next. So ! will certainly be able to give you a better update within a couple of weeks. That's about it. B_.:. HOUSING AND REDEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY, MAYOR CHMIED Mayor Chmiel: The Housing and Redevelopment Authority for the month of March did not meet and that was held over to April 4th. Just give you an idea as to what we did in January. On the new business where we established a 1996 meeting schedule, of course that was approved. Consider approval of the '96 goals and review the '95 accomplishments were also approved. Then there's some old business that we had. Presentation on the redevelopment of the boxvling center and entertainment complex. That was approved but there really wasn't any action needed on that one. Council under old business presentation of the proposed development of Lots 2 and 3, Market Square development. No action was needed on that as well. And Applebee's request for temporary parking on HRA property was also approved, and that sort of covers that part of it. C-- BLUFF CREEK WATERSHED COMM1TrEE, COUNCILMAN BERQUIST. Councilman Berquist: Bluff Creek. The Bluff Creek Watershed Committee is proceeding nicely. Although the last two meetings, I was at the one that preceded the last one late and I wasn't at the last one because of a conflict with the Park Referendum Task Force. I have to...collective statements xvhich I just passed out have been compiled and the additions have been made. The group is in agreement ~vith it's desire to maintain the watershed in as pristine a condition as possible. There are many who are adamantly opposed to any encroachment into the area and thank goodness there are some who realize the need to temper their desires... watershed with the practicality of development issues. The vision statement has been completed to facilitate... has done a good job and a couple of folks from Bonestroo and Associates there. I don't remember ~vhat the budget for this project was but I've been sort of watching payables and I know that the dollars getting big. I think frankly the total cost of this plan will probably surprise us all. And I don't honestly know that anything that you would not expect is in the collective statement and the vision statements. So there are times when I again question the wisdom of the dollars that are spent on functions such as these. Council~voman Dockendorf: Does it feel like fluff?. Councilman Berquist: It's a difficult question. Given the context of cities and public involvement, it feels like there's a lot of people involved which is good. But I also sense that there's a lot of money being spent for the various consultants that didn't really have to be spent. 31 City Council Meeting - March 25, 1996 Councilxvoman Dockendorf: I think that's the...we run into with any kind of thing such as this. We did with the Highway 5 Task Force. Vision 2002. Councilman Berquist: On those we didn't... Councilwoman Dockendorf: No, but it's a good issue. You have to respect the public process and respect community involvement and that comes with a big price tag. Councilman Berquist: Well I do respect community involvement and the people that have been attending these meetings have been attending them on a real regular basis and I applaud them for that. However like I say...in the collective statements, will not be anything that you could not have easily imagined so. D-- PARK REFERENDUM TASK FORCE, COUNCILMAN BERQUIST. Councilman Berquist: Regarding the Park Task Force. Those meetings have been on a bi-weekly or monthly basis. I don't remember xvhich. I seems like they come very quickly. The txvo new members ~vere at the last meeting, Dick Wing and Mike Lynch. They had some good things to say. I'm concerned about that process. Every'one that I talk to, I wish a lot of this could be off the record but a lot of people that I've talked to, express the opinion that this thing is going to go down in flames. And that part of it scares me. It's still important I think to get the citizens of Chanhassen an option to acquire parkland for the future, or turn it down in their short sightedness. But it's a scary proposition. I'm not used to failing and I don't want this to fail. But the climate is such that there's going to have to be a tremendous educational process put into place to give it a snowball's chance in hell. Mayor Chmiel: No, I think you're right. We'll find out once it does go out to the constituency of this city as to xvhere it's really going to go. Councilman Berquist: You mean the election. Maybe we'll find out then xvhere it's going to go. Mayor Chmiel: Oh I think so. Councilman Berquist: That's a pretty safe statement. Mayor Chmiel: I xvould certainly hope so. At the same time, of course as far as mentioning the probability of it, probably a snoxvball going into hell. I don't know about that yet, so we'll see. They're going to be the final decision makers and there isn't too much that you and I can do or say to change their minds. E._:. CENTENNIAL COMMITTEE, COUNCILWOMAN DOCKENDORF. Councilwoman Dockendorf: Well these people have been meeting on more than a weekly basis. I am flabbergasted at the dedication and the commitment and the ideas. Just fabulous. I particularly applaud Sid Marker and Joe Scott, who are kind of coordinating the whole deal. There are lots of great ideas and things that will come to fruition. For instance Vernelle mentioned the geraniums that will be on sale soon. I think the parade is going to be fabulous. Both on the 5th and July 4th. July 4th really ;vill be the focus. May 5th I think is kind of a toned down day but just stuff, our meetings are Tuesdays at 7:00. Just stop in to one. They're just, oh my gosh. 32 City Council Meeting - March 25, 1996 Mayor Chmiel: Interesting. Councilwoman Dockendorf: Oh fabulous. I mean I don't know where people pull this stuff from but really neat stuff going on. Very talented people in this community. Don Ashworth: Mr. Mayor? Mayor Chmiel: Yeah. Don Ashworth: Karen Engelhardt is really putting in a lot of time on this whole thing and that's all donated. She's not getting paid anything more for doing that. Councilwoman Dockendorf: Yeah, she is. I mean the history that's in the Villager. Mayor Chmiel: Don Ash~vorth: Mayor Chmiel: ADMINIS~E PRESENTATIONS: I might also add, she really gets a kick of it. She really thoroughly enjoys it. I think so but I can tell that it's wearing on her. Oh yeah, no question. Okay. SET WORK SESSION DATE~ INTERVIEW PARK & RECREATION COMMISSION AND ENVIRONMENTAL RESOURCES COMMITTEE APPLICANTS~ CITY MANAGER. Don Ash~vorth: The first open Monday I think was the April 1st. I don't know how that fits for Council. Does that xvork for you? Mayor Chmiel: Are you serious? Councilman Berquist: Took me a minute to pick up on that one. Mayor Chmiel: Don Ashworth: Mayor Chmiel: Don Ashxvorth: I have a big birthday that day. That's my daughter's birthday. Well good, you won't eat so much then... Okay, 7:00 p.m.? No, 5:30. Councilman Berquist: 5:30 here? Don Ashworth: Yes. Councilwoman Dockendorf: It's not going to work for me. Do you know about Mike and Mark's? Don Ashworth: To interview Park & Rec and the Environmental Resource? That would be okay if I ~vere not able to attend. Do you want me to see, if Mike and Mark can do it, then should we go ahead xvith that date? 33 City Council Meeting - March 25, 1996 Councilwoman Dockendorf: I'd be comfortable with that. Don Ashworth: And if not, I'll put it on the next agenda. (The taping of the meeting ended at this point.) Councihvoman Dockendorf moved, Councilman Berquist seconded to adjourn the meeting. and the motion carried. The meeting was adjourned at 9:40 p.rn~ Submitted by Don Ashworth City Manager Prepared by Nann Opheim All voted in favor 34