5. Consider Request for Donation, Chaska Comm Hockey
5,
690 COULTER ORIVE. P.O:BOX 147- CHANHASsEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(61~) 937..t900'.;FAX (612) 937-5739
MEMORANDUM
TO:
Mayor and City Council
FROM:
Don Ashworth~ City Manager
DATE:
October 8, 1997
SUBJ:
Consider Request for a Donation,Ch~ka COD1Inumty'Hoekey Association .
Mayor Mancino: is anticipatinSbavtng a prepared~~_siq this iSsue,'w~ch:she
would like to p~blicly rea4~,M<>ndayevming. th.e intent~~to,'~~;~oncurrence frtm1
the city council ~t her pQsitionstatemei1.t repr_tJthe oftl~ial~itUJ,n.l)f the city.
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October 1. 199,7
Kevin McShane
The ChanhilS$en Batlk
600 \.y. 78thSU'eet
Chanhasseu. MN 55317 '
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Dear Kevin:
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The purpose ormy~ reueristo,0~ uP,J~n otU",~~t di$C~ou concerning, the
Charmassen Clgr CouJlCU.s ~terest' 'in; ,ptQvWtAt aC~"~f',theMum~toitka Youth Hoc~ey
As.sociatiOa in ,the 'new" ':CUUka "~,": ;'Tbe, Qt~'~"agreementbetWeen'
lIid~nt'Sd1~LpJ,spibt~ ll~;'~,~~~_tliHOcWq ASSO(jlatiOn ud the
City of Chaskaptovi~,ihat tbe"~Disftf'~.lU~'~;~:~Qlt)f 480 ,hounof
ice time, with the ,Association haVing a guarantee ,of 1.000 .hours -per year. Attached is a
copy of the$~ ~ents; ,'irhe ~herUJ1de.rStandi~ . that ,the Scbbol PiStrict. Youth
Hockey ASsootation. Pigttre Skating: Club ahd;GttyactiVl~ 'woUld be considered. prime
tenants and ba\tt!'the&rstright to sC~le ~'tim~ ho\ltS. " '
Sin~e both tbe School District and the Yot\tb HOCkey Associlt{gn ,repreSent"youth in tht;; , !
ChanhasSen area. thesealreements :will 'have ,a, directbenetlt"onChanhassen youthartd " , !
skating participants.," \
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Relative to the Mlnnetoaka Youth aockey' '"4SSOCi,att0l1. we wowd \Jesupportive of an
agreement Wblchwou~ provide, the ~t' t;Q:PuitbaSe ~ 'time lee prior to otheroutsid€
groups. Under tbis approach. the' Mblpe~' vou,tli A~iation would be co~idered a
priority tenant, being given the.optlqli w~ro~_;a~ble ,ice time after it bM been
sCh"eduled'by th~prlme tenanfsbtit,~~'.e'~()ach Otliet:6utSkle groups.
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The City of Chaska Tema1nSC()~,to ,eIimlM~ the llOtl"fesident tate for S((hool
District -residents who- utilize tb.e' iQe. arena :c,omplex:'; 'TbiS, commitment was made in
recogtUtion (jf:tbe partnership . for fUBdingtbe se(!.Qhdsheetof~tce.
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AS yQ11'are aware. w, e hav, ,eex~~~, th,' ~. !l,'~ '~1$ W!/ll the School District 10 " j
uupletnent ~:.~. '~,',qty<i;~ll:,~'tftdic~.;lMt,;~a ts,~rnml~:'$ j::t~~1
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$2 50~OOO.;1Ot :"t~t, Gm"~" .. 1$ to consider 'bkls, for tbe Ice Arena ";":4
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/97 08:22 To:OON ASHWORTH
From:Dave Pokorne
Page 3/3
Addition at our October 13th meeting. Prior to that time. it will be necessary for the
Association to proyide the City an update on the status of its fundraising etTorts.
\\'e truly look fOlward to working closely with you and other members of the commllllity in
addressing our youth recreational needs. If you have any questions concerning this
information. please feel free to contact either myself or Tom Redman. Parks & Recreation
Director at your convenience.
Sincerely.
Daw Pokorney
City Administrator
DP:jms
EllC losure
City Council Meeting - September 22, 1997
All voted in favor and the motion carried.
C. Councilman Berquist moved, Councilman Senn seconded to table approval of the
Reassignment of Development Contract/PUD Agreement for Autumn Ridge 1st and 2nd and
3rd Additions, D.R. Horton, Project Nos. 95-5 and 96-4. All voted in favor and the motion
carried.
VISITOR PRESENTATION: REQUEST FOR FUNDING. CHASKA COMMUNITY HOCKEY
ASSOCIATION.
Kevin McShane: Good evening Mayor Mancino, Council members. My name is Kevin McShane. I
reside at 180 South Shore Court in Chanhassen and I'm here tonight representing our arena campaign.
I'm one of the tri-chairs of the campaign and with me tonight is another tri-chair, Randy Mueller. He'll
be part of our presentation. And our consultant Mark Davey. And just wanted to give you a brief recap
of, some of you are familiar with where some of this has been at but basically this has been an effort
between the three communities, Chanhassen, Chaska and Victoria, as well as our School District and as I
think everyone's aware, we did apply for and receive $250,000.00 in Mighty Ducks Funding for this
project. The overall project is estimated to be $2.25 million, and of that we've committed as a part of
both the Hockey Association and the Figure Skating families, to organize this ice arena effort and T do
stress that it is an ice arena versus just a hockey arena. There is some differences there. This facility will
allow not only the Hockey Association to acquire some addItional ice, but the figure skaters as well.
There will be open ice times during prime time and the hours that the facility is used with the school
district is a benefit to all those children that fill out those phy-ed pods at the District that provide for
chIldren. Basically the three communities have already made a commitment as a part of our Mighty
Ducks presentation. There were a lot of letters that were put together. Mark Davey, our consultant,
assisted in that. Some of the feedback we received from the Commission that approves that is that it was
one of the best presentations they had ever received in terms of the overall packet. They do awards for
varying amounts. The maximum IS 250 and we did receive that so we're very pleased. Combined with
what we've committed to raise another 250, that's a $500,000.00 down payment if you will on a project
of $2.25. And I think that's been really unprecedented in our area for this kind of an effort and it really is
those five entities that WIll hopefully make all this happen. I think as a part of the packet you received,
hopefully it was, the brochure should have been included and on a copy of the memo I received there was
a copy of the article in the Chaska Herald that summarized the recent developments for where we're at in
the project. We do hope to get underway this fall with the construction. Hopefully early October. To do
that we want to try to have as much of this committed as possible. I think in the article the CIty would
like us to see half of that 250 committed. Where we're at in the campaign is the first people we went to
were the parents in both the Figure Skating Association and the CCHA. The next step is to solicit the
High School, both N and senior players and their families. The City of Chaska has committed to put the
land in. They've also done bonding for the project. The City of Victoria, I think you're aware has made
a $30,000.00 commitment and we're looking to visit with Chanhassen to participate as well. One of the
formulas that we've looked at is the number of Chanhassen families that are in the association as well as
the other two communities and basically the breakdown is Victoria has about 10% of the kids in the
program, Chanhassen about 40% and Chaska basically the difference. And so that's part of how we've
come up with what our request will be from the City. I'd like to turn it over to Randy Mueller at this
point to give a recap of the project itself and then we'll wrap up in just a minute.
Randy Mueller: Mayor, Council. Thanks again for inviting us. As Kevin mentioned, a lot of activity has
gone in really a relatively short period of time and just a fantastic community project of the three
communities. What I want to share with you here, a little bit of the plans right now for the second ice
2
CIty Council Meeting - September 22, 1997
arena to be added to the Chaska Community Center. Just give you again very high level background of
why we're constructing what we're really calling a practice arena. This is not a full game arena with all
the bells and whistles. Primarily a practice arena to keep costs low and really address the ice shortage
problem that our youth athletes in the community suffer really during the dIfficult months which really
begin now all the way through the end of March. Basically it's going to run, hopefully you can hear me,
parallel to the existing sheet of ice. We'll still use the common entryway...be able to turn and walk
through the first sheet and then into the second arena itself. So as a result of this renovation project, we
will be moving the resurfacing equipment, the zamboni itself... As you can see over here, the team locker
rooms are greatly expanded over the existing team rooms. Right now that's a big problem WIth... Have
expanded the size of each of those rooms. Where possible, I think the engineers have done a very good
job. We will leverage the existing ice equipment and infrastructure and the dehumidification
equipment.. . and anything we can do to keep costs down to an absolute minimum. The plans are, in some
future point in time. Not as part of our fundraising campaign.. .cost of the project, we will have the
capability to have 140 seats in the new practice arena. And agam this is an arena that we still are going
to be very proud of.. . elaborate game arena but games and other types of events can be hosted. Spectator
seating is allowed for up to about 140 people. At one time, just again a little background. They were
looking at building a second arena right here. The key problem is that. . . parking area, this is a
problem...as well as we're getting awfully c1ose...so all and all this appeared to have a better flow.
Running it parallel. The bid process has actually been drafted. I know the bids are m the process of
bemg released.. .except to move very aggressively. Hopefully getting the footings in early here withm
the month of October-November, prior to the cold winter months and then hopefully if everything goes
according to plans, have the arena somewhat operatIOnal by mid to late summer and hopefully next year
have the practice arena avaIlable for the community use. Right now just a little bit of the background and
a little history and I think this was brought to your attention last time I was here and gave the
presentation. Because we have basically a supply and demand problem, a number of our youth athletes
today, we travel to New Prague. We're going to be traveling to Le Sueur. Anywhere we can basically
find ice WhICh Isn't available in the community. This is part of the reason why we're very strong in
promotmg this second sheet of ice. Coupled WIth the fact that over the last two years, outdoor ice has not
been that suitable of an optIon given to the winter weather extremes of the community we live in. And
plus just the need for quality indoor ice for figure skaters and for hockey teams to practice accordmg to
plan. One thing that you may find of interest. Most of the other school problems within the district that
our kids, our athletes compete in are in the process ofbuildmg really their third sheet of ice. Chaska is
the only commumty in the district that has one sheet, with the exception of Richfield. Again some are
building their third and also entertaining theIr fourth sheets of ice and according to school distrIct
projections, if the trend continues, this is an area that is highly desirable to live. Very quickly, even the
second sheet of ice will be limited in servicing the young athletes of the community and we should
already be thinking about longer term, our third sheet of ice so it's not like we're entering into this you
know having a lot of excess ice available with the construction ofthe second sheet of ice arena but
actually making up for a deficit where we're at today. So anyway with that, that's a little bit of the arena
itself. A little background. I'll turn it back over to Kevin.
Kevin McShane: Just a couple other comments on the campaign itself. We do intend to go to the
community at large with this and we've put together a volunteer group out of both the figure skating and
hockey folks. And we felt that one of the things that would help with the success of that, to make sure
that we have covered all the communities that are involved, all the associations and to get as many
commitments in place as we can, we've asked for a quick response to our solicitation to the hockey
families. Those are now coming in. We're doing the same with the high school people and we want to
be able to go to the corporate folks in our communities and to give them an idea of the level of
commitment we have and the more of these people and entities that we have in place, the better. The
other thing is, as far as the timing, we're anxious to get that done because most companies are now in the
3
City Council Meeting - September 22, 1997
process of doing their budgeting for next year and beyond. We did have a company that's already made a
commitment because their process is ahead of some of the others and they've already budgeted for that
and we've received their pledge over a two year period. It's a $10,000.00 pledge. $5,000.00 a year for
two years. We're asking for a three year pledge in our campaign and I know in our case, at our company
we start that process in late September and try to have it wrapped up at the end of October so we're
anxious to get the process moving so that we can hit those people at the right time and get considered for
the next three years as far as a commitment. What we're asking for from our city in Chanhassen is a
$40,000.00 commitment over three years and basically part of that is based on a formula of the number of
families that are involved in the program and that's one of the ways we came up with that number. And
as I look at it, and I think I mentioned to someone before, it's a bit of a twofer in that, with the Mighty
Ducks money, the money that we're able to raise is basically a match against that so to come in with a
$500,000.00 commitment in a project like this and with the commitment of the Hockey Association for
the hours that they've guaranteed that they will buy and the lease with the school district it really, it
makes thIS whole project work from not only covering the operating costs, estimated operating costs, but
the estimated debt service as well and I think that's important that this becomes a self funding project
from that standpoint. So with that I thank you for your time.
Mayor Mancino: Thank you. Any questions? Kevin, if you want to stay up for a minute and we may
have some questions.
Kevin McShane: I'd be glad to.
Councilman Senn: Point of clarification. $40,000.00 over three years. Are you saying you're asking for
$120,000.00 or you're asking for?
Kevin McShane: Pardon me. $40,000.00 a year for three years for a total of 120.
Councilman Senn: So you're asking for $ 120,000.00?
Kevin McShane: Correct. Over three years.
Mayor Mancino: So approximately half of the 250 you're trying to raise.
Kevin McShane: Approximately, yes.
Councilman Senn: Okay. And based on the amount of kids we have in the program, that's roughly over
a thousand and some odd dollars per kid you want us to kick in.
Kevin McShane: That sounds correct.
Councilman Senn: Okay. Question. Ifwe would be so inclined to consider or do such a thing in that we
have an equal number of kids in our community in the Minnetonka ice program, would you make 20% of
the regulation and prime ice time in this center available to the Minnetonka ice program?
Kevin McShane: The City of Chaska.
Councilman Senn: Of our 40% is where my math is coming from.
Kevin McShane: Well the City ofChaska would need to, I mean they're the ones that own and operate
the arena and I know that they're anxious to lease or rent as much of that time as possible. And I know
that they've committed to the open skate, to not have a differential between the communities. Currently
there has been in terms ofthe cost for a resident and non-resident. They've agreed to waive that for all
the residents of the three communities going forward. And the Minnetonka Hockey Association could
certainly approach Chaska and purchase whatever's available.
CouncIlman Senn: And that would be available on the same basis.
Kevin McShane: Maybe Mark, do you want to address that as well.
4
City CouncIl Meeting - September 22, 1997
Mark Davey: Good evening. My name is Mark Davey and I'm working as a consultant to this campaign.
I Just would like to go back and answer that question, $1,000.00 per individual athlete playing in the
program. If the arena only lasted one year, that would be true. It'd be $1,000.00 an athlete, except this
arena will be there for 30 years so a gift from the City of Chanhassen over a 3 year period to this program
will not only cover the athletes this year, next year, 5 years, 10 years, 15 years out. So on a one year
basis It's $1,000.00, but on the length of the arena being there and the commitment that Chaska has made
to Chanhassen making a commitment, I would thmk you'd be talking much, much less than that. Maybe
like $10.00 a student that would participate over the next 20 years. The other question was about a
commitment on ice time. The Hockey Association has worked really hard with the City of Chaska to get
a commitment from them to give available ice time to free skate for the young people ofChanhassen who
have a Chanhassen address. I think as far as the hockey associations are concerned, I'm sure that Chaska
will do everything possible so that Minnetonka would have available some skating, or skating time that
they have available. But to ask them to guarantee Minnetonka, you'd have to work with Chaska to do
that. I mean they'd have to answer that question. .. .of how much of Minnetonka is part of Chanhassen
and I don't know how they'd figure that out.
Mayor Mancmo: Yeah, half of our kids that play hockey are in the Minnetonka Hockey Association.
Mark Davey: So you could.. .half of those teams can practice but the rest. I'm sure that they would work
it out. I mean they're eager to work with you. But those guarantees would have to come...
Mayor Mancino: KeVIn, IS there a set time. Is there peak time, so many hours of ice that the Chaska
Community Hockey Association has been told that you wIll have from the City of Chaska? And what
are those tImes, etc.?
Randy Mueller: Well the prime time ice available for our youth athletes really, they look at starting
about 6:00 going till 10:00, Monday through Fnday and really going from 6:00 in the mornIng until
10:00 at night on Saturday and Sunday. If you look at those hours considered prime time ice over that 6
to 7 month period, you really have about 1,200 hours of ice that one rink can serve. Clearly the high
school athletes, and keep in mind we are very much supportIve of the girls, a new girls high school
program and we're very excited about the new coach and this is new for our community because Eden
Prairie no longer IS supporting our girl athletes so, but anyway. They will consume the ice prior to prime
time such as you know, beginning at 3:00 to 6:00. That's where their practIce will come in. Prior to.
Mayor Mancino: So the women have to take off prime time hours?
Randy Mueller: Women and boys. Both are consuming really those hours of ice prior to you know 6:00
if you will, unti11O:00. Yeah, and there's some unique things that are gOIng on that the school district is
trying to do to accommodate additional programs like our gIrlS high school program, including altering
that last hour of education if possible so they can get in to use the one sheet of ice. So what does that
mean? If You look at what we have procured, and again this is an estimate if you will that the Youth
Hockey Association I believe has bought, give or take. We're buying between 600 and 700 hours of ice.
Mayor Mancino: So out of the 1,200 prime time, you're buying between 600 and 700?
Randy Mueller: 700 roughly and 500 hours of prime time, keep in mind, we can't consume it all. I mean
we have a community to serve as well. 500 of those hours go to a combination of open skate. A
combInation of figure skating club and other community needs so, basically the 1,200 hours are
consumed. Based on the task force that I was involved with looking at growth projections of young kids
moving to this area, the growth in our figure skating club, the growth in girls hockey as well as men's
hockey. I mean we could consume 1,200 hours ourselves. All right, right now we could consume it all
5
City Council Meeting - September 22, 1997
which would leave no time for anyone else. Now with the second sheet of ice, does that free up
potentially some hours that could be sold to the Minnetonka Hockey Association? I beheve it may, and I
know the City ofChaska, you know would certainly entertain that. Right now we'd like to get all those
hours back that we're paying the communities of New Prague and Le Sueur because we had to go buy
hours from them because there's none available.
Mayor Mancino: Sure, and Minnetonka does too.
Randy Mueller: Just like Minnetonka, and they've got the same issue so. The reality of it is, even with
the second sheet of ice, you know we're trying to address a demand problem for both our youth hockey
associatlOn and clearly Minnetonka's facing the same issue. We're operating in a deficit position now.
Not building a surplus. But again, I have found the City of Chaska willing and open and able, I mean
that's part ofthis whole project to work with various communities and I don't see any reason why they
wouldn't work with the Minnetonka Hockey Association to help them out as well. I would be hard
pressed to do that.
Mayor Mancino: And that's a discussion we need to have with them then.
Randy Mueller: Yeah, and they run the ice. They operate the ice and that's also why we're very excited
about this second sheet there. I mean this is a very, scheduling of ice is very difficult and complex and I
think they've proven they've done a pretty good job of that. And they're selling us the ice by the way at
below market rates. You notice at $110.00 an hour, that may seem high but to keep the costs of our
young athletes to participate, that's actually below market compared to what they could sell It to Eden
Prairie or anyone else that would be willing to buy it at substantially more an hour.
Councilman Senn: I want to understand what you said before so I don't misunderstand it I guess. But
what you were saying is effectively the school can't do, the school programs have the ice time effectively
slotted from 3:00 to 6:00, which is normal because they have their practices right after school.
Randy Mueller: Right.
Councilman Senn: And then you're saying from 6:00 to 10:00, which is the prime time outside of the
school programs effectively, you have slotted effectively for your program.
Randy Mueller: For youth hockey. For figure skating club. For community open skate, yes. Dunng the
week. As well as on weekends so.
Councilman Senn: Right, and then Saturday and Sunday you're saying from 7:00 in the morning or what
was it, 6:00 in the morning.
Randy Mueller: 6:00 in the morning.
Councilman Senn: Until 10:00 at night you also have it slotted for your association and.
Randy Mueller: Figure skating and open ice.
Councilman Senn: And open ice time.
Randy Mueller: Yeah. And then of course you add in high school games, you know which consume ice,
WhICh again we don't have available but roughly speaking, that's how it works. That's how you do the
math to come up with it. You've got 1,200 hours of prime time period.
Councilman Senn: Okay, and that time's already committed effectively to either open or your
association at.
Mayor Mancino: 600, 700 hours.
6
City Council Meeting - September 22, 1997
Councilman Senn: Right, and the other 500's open or whatever so like you said there is no available
time for other associations. And if so, they pay a higher rate is what you're basically saying.
Randy Mueller: They're out there talkmg to New Prague or Le Sueur or as far as they can go to find ice.
They're out there buying ice right now. I mean there are sometimes, you know we have bought ice from
Parade Stadium in downtown Minneapolis for you know 6:00 in the morning practice. I mean we'll get, I
mean you could pick-up some ice like that. You know you buy it wherever you can find it. And that's
dIfficult on our parents as well as our athletes when you consider you drive to New Prague and you know
it's an hour drive. Then you've got the practice and an hour drive back and that's, I don't know about
you but that's 3-3 Y2 hours of my time as well as kids time away from school and other activities, but
that's the price you pay you know when you're in this type of environment we're in.
Councilman Berquist: I want to try and gain a perspective on the project rather than the operation of the
project. Back when we were toying with the idea of putting it in the Chan Business Park, I'm trying to
remember what we had for a preliminary budget. I'm thinking to myself it was a millIon and a half to put
the arena up and the fill and all the necessary stuff to make it operable. Am I remember right?
Randy Mueller: Our original projection to build a stand alone arena was in the million two to million
five range, yes. Not including obviously the land or.
Councilman Berquist: Right, the land was there. We talked about that.
Mayor Mancino: Soil corrections.
Councilman BerqUIst: Well there was some. There was. ..of soil that had to be taken out but we've gone
from let's say a million and a half, for the sake of round numbers. Two and a quarter. From
what... saying, we're reducing the chiller WIth the eXIsting chiller. You don't have any zambom cost.
You have one zamboni.
Randy Mueller: In that 2.5 includes a new zamboni. This resurfacer room.. .zambomes. The good news
about that is that if one breaks down, we have another one.
CouncIlman Berquist: All right, that was included in the million five originally so, but the point IS,
we've got, we're using the existmg chiller which is a significant. Existing dehumidification system.
Maybe some modificatIon. But all of a sudden we're up % of a millIon dollars and the significant part of
the arena that is already m place. I'm having a difficult tIme understanding that. I know the construction
materials is somewhat different.
Randy Mueller: You know part of maybe what wasn't discussed at a great deal oflength when we
talked about the arena in Chanhassen is, you know one thing that we're going to have to do is
aesthetIcally we're going to need to conform to the Community Center. Structurally, their standard. It's
hard to say this but broad brush, it's not apples and oranges. This was a real scaled down building. The
one that we had talked to Chanhassen about. I hate to use the analogy of a pole barn, but I mean it was
not.
Councilman Berquist: Well it was a pole barn. Go ahead.
Mayor Mancino: It would go with an existing Rec Center m another City. It would not be compatible.
Randy Mueller: Yeah. Your Rec Center is beautiful. I mean it was not your Rec Center. It was a nice
arena. Functional and very adequate. Is it something that we tell the world about, you know look at that
beautiful facility? Probably not. No.
7
City Council Meeting - September 22, 1997
Councilman Berquist: What strikes me, honestly. If you look at the site, I mean there is, I don't think
that there IS, I mean the back of that and the south side of that is going to be visible from anywhere
whatsoever.
Randy Mueller: Yeah, because it does.
Councilman Senn: You have severe grades that are going down WhICh will mean, I mean that's going to
impact your construction cost too.
Councilman Berquist: But that whole area is...
Councilman Senn: No, not where this is going. Severe drop.
Councilman Berquist: And you're actually working into the grade? Into the drop?
Councilman Senn: No.
Councilman Berquist: It's not t1at enough all the way back there?
Randy Mueller: Bringing it up to the level of the current facility so as you come in, it's all on, both
sheets will be on one level and you'll just walk through. They have to actually bring that up and do some
earth work back there.
Councilman Berquist: But it still, you don't have to build retaining structures.
Randy Mueller: There will be some retaining structures.
Councilman Berquist: And the engineer's estimate IS $2.25 million so it remains to be seen when the
bids come in actually how close he is, but assuming that he's close.
Kevin McShane: Actually the original numbers that, as we started this project were at a million eight to
a million nine, and as they got into the finals, it's at 2.2 and they feel pretty confident that they'll be very,
very close to that. This was about the ninth or tenth verSIOn of how that could be situated there. And
how It could be figured and there was a lot of input by community groups, both figure skaters, hockey
people and lots of variations were done of this and when the final was done and they rebid it, I know that
the City of Chaska feels confident that these numbers should be pretty solid. I mean there's been a lot of
work on it to this point.
Mark Davey: I'd just like to share one thought that our firm's done six of these, and everyone of them
started out at $1.8 million that they could them for. Not one of them ended up less than $2.3. Whether
it's Hastings or Mahtomedl or Brainerd, they all started out somewhere between $1.6 and $1.8 because of
the anxiousness to get them built. But when the real costs were broken down, they all ended up over $2
mIllion. Hastings was a good example of doing the same thing that we're suggesting here. They start out
at $1.8. They ended up at $2.3. You can't build an arena anymore.
Councilman Berquist: Were they second arenas? Add-on's?
Mark Davey: Yeah. Second add-on's.
Councilman Berquist: They were.
Mark Davey: And the numbers always come out the same. And it really is working with the architects,
and I don't know how this happens but the architects look at the buildings and say they can do them for
1.8 and when everything's added, it's 2.3.
Mayor Mancino: So the 1.2 and the 1.5 in Chanhassen was not a realistic number really?
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CIty CouncIl Meeting - September 22, 1997
Mark Davey: Well at the time they might have been realistic numbers by who was looking at them but
I'm Just sharing with you in other communities, this is the way the numbers always come out.
Randy Mueller: .. .New Prague ice arena.. .if you look at their facility, and that cost in the $1.2 range.
It's a good facIlity but I mean, not the same standard materials... They did a nice job and they should be
applauded that community for building an arena. But when you start breaking it down, what went into
that facility versus this facility.
Councilman Berquist: So if the thing had been built privately, it would have been built on a much more
value engineering taking place as far as materials and that sort of thing. I mean that's fine, let me go on
if you don't mind. Randy, you talked about, we're at the point where perhaps we as a community should
be thinking about a third sheet of ice. One of my concerns in this is that if the City of Chanhassen sees
fit to commit $120,000.00 over the course of three years, and in fact the need for ice continues to go up,
the City of Chanhassen should logically probably.. .next hockey arena and I worry about number one,
diluting the process for fund raising down the road. And I wonder about the wisdom of taking that
amount of cash out of resources that we could in fact use as seed money for our own arena. Or the
community's thIrd arena perhaps would be a better way to put it.
Mayor Mancino: The region's.
Councilman Berquist: The region's third arena. Can you speak to that at all?
Randy Mueller: Well it's a good point. You know we are somewhat bound by the school district and
they're obviously a very big player here. I mean, and by the way, they're very desperate for additional
phy-ed space just so everyone knows what they're doing and this is not tied to the referendum by the
way. Hearing today, they're using the new arena as a phy-ed pod to address the lack of phy-ed space, but
anyway. That's a real good point. We have a need today. This is a community project today. We WIll
continue to buy ice outside of this community. It's required because the demand is there. The City of
Chanhassen, If the figures are correct, will be the largest city within this area shortly. I mean the growth
is here but, and the demand, It will continue to grow. I would suggest strongly again, it should be
focused on how can we meet the needs oftoday. This is a tactical issue. A tactical need we have but I
would again strongly look at you know where are we going to be in 5 years from now, 10 years from now
because yeah, you'll go through this whole process again. I mean the way it's going, you'll be asked to
participate in the future.
Mayor Mancino: In a third sheet. Well we already have been from Minnetonka so it is also right now
currently the Minnetonka Youth Hockey Association would like another sheet of ice, especially if they
can't get any prime time on this new one that's coming into the area. So they have already stated that to
us. That they would like another sheet of ice for that hockey association to use.
Randy Mueller: And one comment I want to make about hockey, and I know this, and figure skating, that
just please keep in mind. We're talking a facility that's operational, or the plan, you know 7 months out
of the year versus, you know how often is your soccer fields and your baseball field being used and the
relative cost compared to running, maintaining and supporting this type of program versus what it costs
you to support baseball and soccer, etc. so this facility is intensely used. I mean and a lot of people
benefit from it. But you may want to think about the comparison you know relatively speaking what
you're spending to support those other programs versus supporting this program.
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City Council Meeting - September 22, 1997
Mayor Mancino: That's a good point and we do have that information quantified and how many kids
from the Chanhassen area are mvolved in soccer and how many are involved in baseball and basketball
and we're going to be looking at that and making sure that we're being fair to each athletic association in
our city.
Councilman Senn: Logistically I guess there's one thing I guess I'd really like to understand. You know
you gentlemen are here basically asking us for a contribution. But if we're going to contribute, who do
we have to negotiate and talk with to solidify meeting the needs of our overall community before we
would agree to a contribution or as part of a deal to agree to a contribution? What I've heard you said
earlier was, you know that's separate. How do we put it together?
Randy Mueller: No, it is somewhat separate but I would say that the key people that we need to talk to is
first of all the ice coordinator. His name's Tom Redmond. He also is on our youth hockey association
board and he's the head of Parks and Rec for Chaska. And also I would assume the City Manager, Mr.
Pokorney. By the way, the City of Victoria, when we asked them for their contribution, had some similar
Issues and keep in mind they also are a growing community and growing quite fast and if projections are
correct, in 10 years they're going to be a pretty big city as well. They had some similar type concerns,
not to the point where you know, they're going to have anywhere near the population ofChanhassen but
how do we make it a little more equitable. How do we make this a little more of a community so that
non-residents ofChaska you know aren't charged extra fees to skate at the commumty center. And the
community center, the people running that have already gone on record saying because this is a
commumty wide project, you know we are going to elimmate, at least they have suggested to me anyway
that extra non-resident fee to use this facility. So anyway, where am I going with this? I have found the
City of Chaska since you know I've worked with them, just as I found the City of Chanhassen, in a very
collaborative, collegial state of mind in trying to make this happen. And I don't see any reason why they
would reject any proposal, especially if you're willing to contribute to the fund raising campaign, to look
at all options right now to support all of Chanhassen, including the needs of the Minnetonka youth. But I
clearly suggest again even beyond the second sheet, part of your long range planning, to look at you said
Steve, sheet number 3. I mean you're going to be in the leader's position I mean for that.
Mark Davey: I can answer that question... If you give to this campaign and you then decide to do an
arena 3 or 4 or 5 years from now, how will that affect the corporate community as far as making, turn out
to be a gift giving campaign. The answer to that is the new arena would be a plus to building another one
because if you'll have proved that it Will work and the corporate donors like that. To see that one
community has done it. Then another will do it and I think if you look at all fund raising across the State
of Minnesota, whether it's higher education, secondary education, social service agencies, campaigns are
going on all the time and all of them, 90% of them are successful. The University of Minnesota will be
announcing a billion dollar campaign soon. They just got done with a $500 million. They will be
successful. St. Thomas announces a campaign for so much, they're successful. Philanthropy in
Minnesota is phenomenal and if it's a good cause and it makes sense for the community, these
corporatIOns up and down Highway 5 will give. They've committed to this campaign and I think they'd
commit to another campaign.
Roger Knutson: Mayor?
Mayor Mancino: Yes.
Roger Knutson: Structurally the way this would be done, it would not be a gift. It would be an
agreement with the City ofChaska in which you would outline what you're getting. Whether it's no
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City Council Meeting - September 22, 1997
discrimination against Chanhassen residents. Whether it's an agreement on rental rates being the same
for Chanhassen and Chaska residents or priority use of the ice sheet between different groups. Whatever
you want, and you can get whatever you can negotiate. What you put into a wntten, binding document.
You can't make gifts.
Councilman Senn: That answers my questions, thank you Roger.
Mark Davey: As I understand it, the school district has saId.. .so generous as to make this commItment,
they would, if you're more comfortable making it to the school district, that they could accept that based
on this campaign.
Roger Knutson: From what I understood from you saying that the City of Chaska is gomg to be the
owner of the property. So you'd want an agreement with the City ofChaska.
Mayor Mancmo: Councilman Berquist, any more questions?
Councilman Berquist: Not that we need to talk about here. There's a lot of stuff to talk about later.
Mayor Mancmo: Okay. Councilman Mason?
Councilman Mason: No questions.
Mayor Mancino: Okay. Thank you very much.
Kevm McShane: Thank you for your time.
Mayor Mancino: Is there anyone else tonight WIshing to address the CIty Council under viSItor
presentatIOns or WIshing to make a comment on the ice arena proposal? Seeing none, we will go ahead to
public hearings.
PUBLIC HEARING: ASSESSMENT HEARING FOR COUNTY ROAD 17 IMPROVEMENT
PROJECT 93-29.
Public Present:
Name
Address
Darryl Fortier
Warren Rosavik
Representing Frank Beddor
Charles Folch: Thank you Madam Mayor, members of the Council. Basically this project, limIted
extended from Trunk Highway 5 south to Lyman Boulevard. The primary project elements consisted of
upgradmg the two lane rural road section to a four lane urban divided roadway. Storm sewer and
ponding was also an addition. Some sanitary sewer and watermain segments were also placed in the
facility for future service. Trails, street lighting and landscaping were the rest of the remaining primary
elements. The project cost for this project listed in the project engineer's letter dated September It",
which you have in your packet, Itemizing the primary elements in comparing costs from the feasibility
study to the final engineers estimate and to the final project cost. As you compare the individual pnmary
project elements, relatively speaking the total construction costs for the final project of $3.45 million is
11