The URL can be used to link to this page

1993 11 22CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL REGUI,AR MEETING NOVEMBER 2~, Mayor C~mi~l c~,ed th~ meeting ~o order aI 7:3~ p_m. The meeting was ~ ~ ~he Pled~ ~o ~he Flag. COUNCIL MEMBERS ~1 Ml~yor _Chmt~.l; O)llIlililw_r~nsn ~, Todd Hoffman, Sharmin AIJaff, and Clmdes Folch APPROVAL O1~ not ~ under ~ ~ Krau~: Mt. M~or... ~genda ~t ~ lx~im. lVlayot~: Oimy. I'll go along wlth ~l~t. Coundlman Wfn~ moved, Councflwomsn Doekend~ seconded t~ approve the ~ with the foiknvi~ Ail voted fn favor snd the motion carded. Councilman W'mg: I think I'll just puI it on thc record a lxoblcm I had wtlh mY tax stal~mmt and resulting May~ Ctunicl: Okay. We'll 1~ it down as ilcm numl~r 9 ~ Under Council Pn~nlatio~ Councilman Senn: Should wc su~n with ~hs~ maybe? Councilman Senn: I mean it's ~ taxin~ ~o expect ~ to ~ ibis ~]z Ciu Council ~ going imo ~hc budl~ hearings ti~ I ~ _th_t lt~ ci~ l~tgon of I~ ~x ltl woold · 1 be roughly 0, at least from what we had ~et it for the Truth in Taxafl~ hearinl~. ! w~ quite s~ to I~t home and get my own statement and find that it had a ?4% increase in the city portion. ! visited then with the County Auditor's office Friday morning. We s~ent approximately 3 l~ur~ going through their ~ that they had used to prepare those notices. And what we found is that again, the taxing system is very, very complex and I do not blame the auditor for the error but that is what occurt~ An ezror in approximately $571,000.00 in tax capacity dollars. Tax dollars was missed. And when those we~ put back in, _hs~!c-~Hy the increase associated with the city portion is 0. So those people out the, re who have received a tax statement and it shows a city portion going up 7.4%, that is an error. And I received a statement from the County Auditor today which I carried over to the newspaper and it will appear in Thursday edition of the Vill~er showing that cavecfion. So it is up slimily. It went from 25. Last year's was 25.15% and ff the budget would stay as it is, it would go to 2~.8%. A .3% increase. I'm sure that ff the Council wants to ensure that there is not a ~ tax increase, that as a pan of our budgetary process. That we can hopefully find an additional $20,000.00 in cuts which would assure that we'd stay at that 25.~ levee or lower so. Mayor Chmiee: Okay. Richard. Councilman Wing: And I guess the other point I wanted to make is Don, is it in fact true that you went down as City Manager, went through the Auditor's reports and in fact found that error7 Is that correct? Don Ashworth: That's conect Councilman Wing: I would like m say thank you for that. I think that's an exiraordinary effort Mayor Cluniee: We'll make sure you get another Coca Cob tomon'ow. But that is good. That's great. Appreciate timt. Okay, with that aplxoval of the agenda. PUBLIC ANNOUN(~EMENTS: None. CONSENT AGENDA: Councilwoman Dockendorf moved, Coundlmn M~on ~eco~ded m approve the following Consent Agenda items pursuant to the City Manager's recommendatims: a. Zoning Ordinance Amendment to City Code Section 20-57 Regarding Expiration of Platting Variances, Final Reading. g. Request for Senior Citizen Special Assessment Ddermcnt, Minnewashta Pm~ay Assessment Project. h. Resolution #93-113: Resolution Incorporating Pending Auemnents fc~ Projects 90-13 and 87-2 into the Downtown Redevelopment Project 96-11 Assessment Roil, Market Square. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. Mayor Chmid: I would like m keep items b, e, and j and move thai just beyond the Admintsm~ve Presentations as number 9. Councilman Mason: Your Honor. f could certainly go down there too, if that's the pleasure. Mayor Chmiee: Okay, and f. Yes. With thst we'll move to item i. I. RESOLUTION ~UPPORTING THE PUR(~HA~E OF A BUS FLEET I~OR SOUTI-IWI~T METRO TRANSIT TO SERVE CHASKA~ CHANHASSEN AND EDEN PRAIRIE. City Cmmcfl Meeting - November ~ 1~3 Maycr Chmiel: Would you like to m.t-e, a Im~miafion please? Sm~ your nnm~ and your cr~iuUtm please. pay for the cost of vehicle capitol_ We p~xqved ~dS.~ million of le~stntlve anlhmity in the 1~2 legislam~ to allow us ~o be able to pm'clmse ~ Our umit~mnnding, and ~ fiankly the intent of the legislature, because I was involved in passage of that The ~ of ~ l~sl _nt~re was for ns to be able lo utilize tho~ of the~ vehicles will be in the neighbodx~ of about a millt_nn and a half dollm~ That's the estimat~ right Mayor Chmieh Very good. I think what we'n do is, Diane, Do you have stay.ins yOfl wottld ]J]~ tO say mi. evening as we31? Diane Harbert~ No... Mayor Chmicl: Okay, great. Is there any quesfimm from Council? CouncflmanWing: Mr. Mayor, Ijusthadacommcnt. JustbecanselthrewontthennmeOffi~nndw~go nhcad buying all this new eqnipment nnd suddenly Southwest cerises to exist. I don't ~ the inner workings, inner meshing here. Who's paying who whnt for why~ thc RrB does not have thc authmity to own vehicles. City Council Meeting - November 22, 1993 M_~yor Chmieh Any other questions? If hearins none, I'd rnak~ a motion to accept the resolution supporting the purchase of a bus fleet for Southwest Metro Transit to serve Chaska, C~, ~ Prairie, Is there a second? Councilman Mason: Second. Resolution #93.114: Mayor Chmlel moved, Councilman Mason seconded to approve a resolution suppor~ng the purchase of a bus fleet for Southwest Metr~ Trsn~it to serve Chaska, Clm~u~n Eden Prah, ie. Ali voted lu favor and the motion carried unanimously. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: None. CONSIDER AN INTERIM QRDINANCE TEMPORARILY PROHIBITIN(~ APPROVAI~ QF ~ERTAIN DEVELOPMENT IN THE HIGHWAY ~ CORRm0R. Paul Krauss: At your last meeting yon asked us to lxini back up the posm'bility of a morau~um on Highway 5. This is...I think the third time this question's been raised. We had Roger put together au ordinance for yon... pretty similar to the earlier ordinances and one...factor I guess is that...but it exempts the action that we've already issued to exclude from the moratorium. The goal is clearly one of. I think of attempting to give staff and Planning Commission time to work on the Highway 5 plan. It's been a mater of frustration not only for staff and City Council but also for the Planning Commission. They haven't been able to do it. Their meetin/s since September, when they received the plan, have reg,lsrly gone to midnight or 1:00 in the morning and I think as we know from personal experience, it's imposldble to give any coherent thought to anything at that time. The problem has really been one of overly lengthy agendas. At last count we had it scheduled for 4 different Planning Commission meetin/s. We just never got to it in time. Including last week's. It occurred to me in writing this up that a moralorium on Highway 5 wonldn't addr~s the entire problem. That the Planning Commission agendas are full and the last time they were full, there was nothing on Highway 5 on the agenda. I mean there's things going on throughout the community. So it would really rake a moratorium on everything to be effective in that rel/~ard. What I discussed with the Planning Commission, and I know I've discusm~ with a few of you individually, is the possibility of having the City Council order the Phnning Commission to clear agendas. We've always taken it as a kind of article of faith that I have the right to pull off items that were inapprotriately thought out or incomplete but when somebody made a submittal to stuff' in the pwper manner, then we had an obli&ation to honor thaL What I'd like to do, and this is what I worked out with the Planning Commission. Is go along with the schedule possibly that we've outlined and what I just- handed out to you. Prior to this matter being raised, we set Saturday, December 4th for a bus tour of the corridor. Planning Commission's been asking for that. We tried to schedule it once before but aian't get enou~ of a mm ont. They promised us ff we do it again, they'll come. Wednesday, December 15th is a reg, lm. ly scheduled Planning Commission meeting. We're proposing that that agenda be totally cleared and only the Highway 5 plan be discussed. Starting that me. ting esrly. We needed to get som~ scheduled business to occur at th~ first Planning Commission meetin8 in January so I put in he~ that ff the Planning Commission feels that even afar the first work session they need a second work session to digest the plan, that they hold a special meeting on January 12th and tim the ragularly scheduled second meeting in January be wholly devoted over to the public hearing. ...the public hearing for the comp plan amendment fc~ the Highway ~ plan and potentinlly also for the new ordinance that will go with the Highway $ ordinance. I su~e,~ed that the City Council give the Planning Commission up until February 1 to deliver the document... It's a somewhat ambitious schedule but I think the Planning Commission's been kind of chomping at the bit to get ~,~.ng ou it and I've proposed that as au alternative. I have a good expectation that I think the Planning Commission's going to be able to come through City Council M__,~_ng - November 22, 1993 on tim. They were heavily involved in the I-]ighway 5 process. So I've givm you the two o~ We do haveamoratcriumordinane~ We do have thts ~ We did not tnke the step of mail nogfTing evetTbody Technically we don't hnve to publ'_t~h the nolice fer thi~..vety short tnrn ntonnd lime to get even mntled notice out nnd we've already..~-vetybody to Ihe meetings twice in the pnst nnd I wnsn't snre whefler or not I ~ ~ th~_n~enlq. $oltooklhesl~.pnotlo. Sowtththntwe'llpnsst~backoverlotheCOnndlfer~ The ordinance is in yonr hand~ If you want to go with that. The ~rm/ of nn alt=native nPlnOach ts there ns . we. Il. we do have the PUD effect m _thi~_ It gives ns all those desirous ~ ~ we want ns far as the dry tn telling what we'd like to see and wtmt we want to see. And I thinir thn_ t In tl~eff give8 me enoll~ ~ m ~ ~ to go to that mcntodum portion. ,So with that I'd like to just, I'll move it right ~ Rkhsrd. CouncUn~n W'mg: Panldidweaccepta~p~nn fromOpnsandthenpnttlzmmhold7 Is_thnrwhnt ~ on that one? Paul IG-auss: Yes. It was, gosh it must have been 9-10 mmths ago. You approved the concept plan for Olms and basically told them not to come back until the l-n~hway 5 stndy was done. CouncilmnnW'mg: Okay, and you know why I'm mkin~ dmt Becnnse of item number 3. So we cnn do the same thing? PaulKrauss: Yeah. I should al~ put you on notice too that we expect to imve a third al~ dne to be filed and probably would ~ that it be handled in mtr. h the same manner. The 137 acre ~ that the roSe,er a proposal on thaL You ~riginall~ almos~ mw ii 2 ~ ago wt~ Rl~m Develo~mt...ii's piece and they have the poss/bility of being ce that first mg in lnnuary ns well ~ W'mg: Roger. If I could address I]~ City Mayer Ciuniel: Be my guesL Councilman W'mg: We stt here as a Conncil and we set Ixiedfles nad try to set some ~ and thru planning and staff gets buried becanse there's an these tenacles _comln_o at them from an over and we have Stnte taw that says we lmvc to re,~ct to _~is proposal and so mn_ny days to do thi. nm] tlmt__ ls Ikre any w~y that we · can legally tell so nnd so to go aw~y fer a while7 That until, that_ the lannnin.a _Commlea~ nnd stnff is not av~ilnhle lo react? Howcanwec]em'lhi~~? lslta~anyle/lalway_gt~asa~wecanck~lhis Cotmcilman Senn: ...you mcan Paul's schedn]g? Councilrmm V~mg: Well there conld be $ or 6 olkr ~ frcsn oeer m~as of the c/~ nil on a time frame thnt want their ~ buti~ there anyway that wee, an just dmply s~ Plnnntn~ Cnmmls~ and staff, the City Council Meeting - November 22, 1993 Councilman Senn: Dick, can I ask... Mayor Chmiel: Hold it. Richard has the floor and you haven't been recognized yet, Just a minute. Councilman Senn: Just a question to you. Wasn't the, maybe I misunderstood but I thought the schedule still included a regular Planning Commission date. Paul Krauss: The schedule that I proposed includes one reg, l~ Planning Commission date between now and the end of... Councilman Senn: So ~ a legal react time that. Mayor Cluniel: Which would be the 19th. Paul Krauss: No, it's the first meeting in January. Councilman Wing: But the point is, if they're tied up on this and it's over wbelming and there's a lot to be done, they maybe will not have the time. I'll tell you want. I wouldn't mind ff Highway 5 was on first and the other ones second and then if it gets to be midnight, that one gets tabled. But I don't think that anything ought to be on the agenda ahead of this. You understand my point7 Roger Knutson: Yes. Councilman Wing: I'm trying to see, is there any way that nothing gets ahead of this on the agenda and if they have to be tabled for thc next 2 and 3 months but they do go through this process. In .facet, ff this was first on the agenda, everybody would be on notice that it may be midnight before they get to them and it may be tabled and it may happen far 2 or 3 months. Is that delaying the thing legally? Roger Knutson: The only iron clad rules under State hw are for subdivision approval. If someone comes in for a preliminary plat, you know 120 days after the...and final plats, you have 60 days. Generally, those are rules but I've never had that to be a problem for me. You just work with thc developers and tell them, we need au extension and I normally ge.t extensions. And if not, then you would have to process. But no one tuts a right to get on a particular Planning Commission meeting. Just because you're stuff is ready wday, doesn't mean ~ou get to go on a week from tomorrow. Councilman Wing: And there's no reason Paul couldn't put those on as thc last items where they'ro going to be there at midnight7 Roger Knutson: No. Councilman Wing: I don't see any reason why this is... Councilwoman Docke~: Right, but why bother doing that. The Council can just by fiat say, this is what you're going to do and develope~ go away because these are just concept approvals, or ams, jority of them that we're looking at. City Council Meeting - Nmmnber 22, 1993 CotmcUman Wing: I'll go nlon8 with Patti's I~esentnlion he~ nmi the ~ to me has nlwnys been a dnngetouswmxL If we can aceomplish whnt we wnnt. Iknowth~isthesecoMtimew~'velalimdnlmut~i~- We're going to nccompUsh it but then it got buried. I think the IXessare's on now enough whea~ yon wonbln't date. Paul Krauss: You know the plnnning _Cnmmtnsioll, I mean the pl_nnnlng C~ ~ this ~ would be obligated to hold the public hem-i~, whic~ unde~ Sta~ taw, I man tlzy'~ ~ to hold tt~ l~lt~ Anyway, I agr~ with the ~mmendalio~ Maycr Chmiel: Okay, thank you. l~F~lme, L CouncilmanMnsmz I~withwhattl~recomm~~too. I lmve nothing to say. Councilman Senn: I'd go wilh your schedule but Fd also go for it o~ the basis that Jsnuary 5th st~ a m~l~r meeting becau~ I don't think ~ should just be forgottm. MaycrChmiel: Okay. Istherennyon~I'msm'ewehaveaf~nvde~herelhisevening. Isthm'enn]n~te wishingm~~y~~fl~t~ At this time, Okay. AIHaht, withthat. Iwouidtheultkea motion to ncce~ Paul's recomm~fi_mm and follow ~ with the sched~ tlmt's been submittmL Councilman Wing: So moved. Coun_enman Wing moved, Coundlnmn Masm seconded that the City Council direct the Planning Commission to clenr It's asendns to consider the Hishway S Comp Plan amendment m~llnanee, holding the public heating at the January 19, 1994 Planing Commbdon meeting and ddlvertn8 the item to the City Council at their first meeting tn February, 1994. All vomi in favor and the motion cra*tied City Council Meeting - November 22, 1993 CONCEPT PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT TO REZONE {}9~9 ACRF~ QF PROPERT~ ~ONED A2, ~GRICULTUR~L F_~qT~TE TO PUD FOR A ~ UNIT ~ENTIAL DEVELOPMENT (~OMPRISED OF 21 BUILDINGS ~F EITHER 8~ 10, OR 1~ I~INIT~ EACH~ $OI~tWEST CORNER OF THE INTERSECTION OF HIOHWAY $ AND GALPIN BOI~ILEVARD~ GALPIN BOULEVARD ~ARRIAGE HQME8~ CENTEX REAL F_~r. ATE ~ORPQRATION, BETTY O'~HAUGHN~$Y. Paul Krauss: It's my understanding, Kate gave me {he sEaff repc~..This is a concept approval. To go back to our conversation a few minutes ago and that wns..,snd I think you can certainly ~ the expectation that if this goe~ through, that you not see it again until the Highway 5...The project is consistent with the Comprehensive Plan. It is sort of the high end of the density range but it is...A tremendous amount of unuseable ground on this site so the gross density is quite low and the net density is relatively high...wotland. The last thing we'll lxflnt out is that one of the concerns that you raise periodically from time to time at Council and the HRA is the...to provide some variation of housing affordabiLifies. This lxoject seems to be mor~ in the, one of'the potential... The fact that it...These are not truly designed to be affordable for income...but it docs allow the multi...to be met in Chsnhassen and right now o~at's...The lest thin~ I'd like to add to th~ what we touched on before is...that this not come back to you for formal approval until such time as the Highway ~..~ in effect. We believe this plan conforms to the Hiihway 5 documents...We think it complies. On the other hand it complies with the document that's not formally adopted yet so it's... It does work towards that end. With that we're continuing to recommend that the concept be approved but those added conditions be tacked on. Mayor Chmiel: Thank you Paul. Is someone here this evening from Centex to make a presentation? Dan Blake: Mr. Mayor, Councilmembers. My name is Dan Blake with Centex Realty ~on. I think I've made as much a presentation as I thought appropriate last time. If the~'s any questions, I'll be a~j~ble to Mayor Chmiel: Very good. Thank you. Let me just ask one specific question of you Dan. In r~viewing the recommen~tion by staff with the 11 conditions that ~ conmin~:l, I~ you in agreement with those? Dan Blake: I believe so. Mayor Chmiel: Airight. thank you. With that I'I1 slm't on this end. Richsrd. Councilman Wing: I will pass a~ this time. Mayor Chh'del: Okay, Colleen. Councilwoman Doakendorf: One question. Are price ranges wim.t~ $70,000.00 to $100,000.00 Dan Bls_ire: The exact same product is being sold in Bden Prairie today and it's, I believe it's 70's m 90's. I would anticipate they would be a little bit less in Chanhassen. Councilwoman Dockendoff: Because of the highway frontage? Dan Blake: We're in right by Bden Prairie Center. Just the distance out. City Council Meeting - NovmJber 22, 1993 Councilwoman Dockemi(~: Okny, thnnkyotL You know ns l said last flme it came up. Idon'tlmveany problem with theconce~ I think it's nn nl~ropriate nse in front of the hi~way. Istillhnve, wellflie~stfllm'e mostly cm'ious as to the whole _timing. I know that umier our ~ ~ we ~ looking at ~ liEhts at TH 5 and CR 17 and it's nn issue timt I'll bring every time it comes up on the schednlc be~__~ it's concept tonisht ~md we tell them to go away for a while. Nextsmnm~ls~lylnmp/itire_-ly. Sclmolis Imray likely next, well almost definitely next _smnmer. 'f'nese traffic liS_h~ nm they going to go in comcutrm~y? Panl Krauss: Weft I guess I need...MnDot's request find MnDot's well aware there's concerns...wiiool bus crash there last year ~-_..School wants to open in the fall of '95. That's roo~ly._it's qnite conceivnMy thnt this should all happen about the same time. 'l'ne ~ si?nh are going in quicker than that. But the ~ng Councilwoman Docl~: Okay, thanks. I don't have an~g further. Mayor Chmiel: Okay, Michael. fine. I definitely would want to add item nnmber 12. *l'mlt this would not conic back to m %m~tn until after the ITlghway 5 corridm' plan has becn presented to Council W'~h _,l~t FII, I'm okay with it. Mayc~ Chmid: Okay. Mark. Yeah. Councilnmn Mason: Wenre. IknowSharmin'sworking~R~~. HRAisdiscuss/ngitaisobutlth~n~ it's gmat, yeah. AbsoluteJy. Thank you. Mayor Chmie. l: Very good. Mink. word sho-_]_8; I mean is it something we need er don't need7 And ff so, why aren't we just simply requiring Paul Kra_u,~ That's on condition 27 Councilman Senn: Yeah, recom_ m__e~ut~_~ number Councilman W'mg: What page? O:)tm_~lmnn Sc/m: Pa~ 3. City Council Meeting - November 22, 1~93 Mayor Chmiel: Council recommendations basic~y are on 12 rather than 3. Councilman Senn: I thought that carried. Paul Krauss: If you look on page 12 of the staff mlx~a't...The conditions in there, oh it's condition 4 here. I see. Additional trail easement (20 feet) should be considered on Cralpin. That's somethin~ we're requiring right now. We're doing work on the des/gn of Galpin Blvd and finding out exactly where the right-of-way should be and what we can fit in the right-of-way and what we should not. There's really a variation on how the road goes. In fact we think that we're going to have the...presentation to the City Council. There's some question as to whether or not Oalpin should be widen on the east side or the west side to fit the trail there. The County's old position, if you ask the County Engineering Depatuue~t...when we ask them to comment on it, they always I~ll us to pull the trail out of the County right-of-way. And it's kind of a, I won't say knee jerk...but they do tlmt every time and every time we t_~lk to them, and we show them how it can fit in there, they go yeah, fine. That's great. That's what we've done on almost all the Iwopenies to the north. The trail is in the county fight-of-way. So I think that's going to be the case here but by the time this comes back people will have figured that out. Councilman Senn: Okay. And tl~'s a condition that we can dear up at the time then you're saying? Paul Krauss: Yeah, it will be cleared up before it ever comes back to you. Councilman Senn: Okay. Otherwise just basically I'll go with my comments from last week. I thought the plan was vat good and very responsible given the, especially given the huxl we're dealing with and I think it's a good plan so I don't have any problems with the concepL Mayor Chmieh Yeah. About the only thing that I have, and I think I mentioned it last time too. With those 232 units, I think there may be some of those soil problems within Ihat patl/cular area and also with the wetlands and I just want to m_~ko sure that all those things are in conformatw~ with those specific ilems. Patti Krauss: The wet!~s we had delineated by...That we have a good handle on. The soil conditions we don't. It's my understanding we really can't get a fig out... Mayor Chmiel: That's righL You can but you need somebody to pull you ouL Always a problem. Okay. I guess that was the only other thing that I h~ some real concerns with. Other than that, is there any other discussions? Councilman Wing: I move approval of the Ceatex conceptual PUD approval. Item number 3 on the Council agenda. Mayor Chmiel: With the conditions as conlained. Councilman Wing: I heard no changes. Mayor Chmiel: With item number 12. As Michael has indicated. Councilman Mason: That this will not come back to us until af~ the first of February. Well until after we get the, how about until after we get the ccm'idor plan from Planning Commission. 10 City Council Meeting - November 22. 1993 Councilman Wing: I thought that wu in my motion. 'l'nnt's conecc Couaciknan Scan: Second. Counen~nn Wh~ move, Councnman Senn seconded that the C~ Coun~ r~cmnmmded npprovnl of a Coneeptnal Planned Unit Development to r~me 89=~9 a~es nf itroptr~ sorted S2, A~ gsta~ to PUD for a 232 unit residential development cmnprbed of 21 bMMJnss of eJtlmr 8, 10 or 12 unJfS In each Galpin Boukvard Carriage Homes with tl~ ~ ~ 1. Thc appUcnnt should confirm sod cmdifiom nnd wetland boundnrLm m thc si~ prior to pre_.llmln.m'y plat submi.n_ i_ 2. The appUcant audi suIxnit nddifional infatuation and more detnil on issues such ns a Iree invenlery, perspectives from Hwy. 5 towards the deveiq~ent, Jmpefvima surface ratio. CompaJance with Hwy. correclJon issales, mete cresxive berm~ng and ~ for the Hwy. 5 exposure 81]d nle~ fully ~ guic~ plan clmng~s ~t may rm~lt from this propolaL o 'Ille 8xes to be, ~ should be designed with 8rms af deelxn' pockel:s to trBp nddltJ_cm-ql ~ ~ nutrient _1~_ dtylg m~r will occur as a result of the deveiopment, The mitigated 8rens sbooM fttso have dim contouring to allow fc~ the e~tabltahm~nt of ~ v~v~ ~ T]~ 8tc~mwal~r pond ~ m~t NURP smmiards. A buffer strip of 0 to 20 feet (avenq~ width ~ 10 ~) ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ e ]:~.,util l:q. ntes. AH storm sewer systems f~n be designed ~ a 1~ m ~ ~ m ~ retention pond shn]l 'be designed to meet the City's water qnnHly slnndBrds ~. 10. Compliance wt~ the conditima of the Building ~ memo da ~_~,d Sqmnber 27, 1993. 11 City Council Meeting - November 22, 1993 12. Prellminnry PUD appllentions will not be proeezsed until the Highway $ Corrklor b-'tndy Is approved by the City Council. AH voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. .CONCEPT PLANNED UNIT D. EVELOPMENT FO.R MIXED mGH DENSITY (I~ DWELLING UNITS) AND NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL USE ON 62~}$ ACRF~ OF PRQPERTY AND yACATION OF A PORTION OF WEST 86TH STREETI LOCATED EAST OF HIGHWAY 1{}1 AT .WEST 86TH STREET! MISSION HILLS! TANDEM PROPER'lIE,5. Public Present: Nnme . . Address Sim Ostenson Dennis Marhula Al Klingelhutz Io Larson David Nag~l loc Hautman Tandem Properties Westwood Professional 8600 C. aeat Phins Blvd. 859O Tigua Circle 8550 Til~ua C~le 8551 Tigua Circle Sharmin Al-Jaff: This is a planned unit development consisting of single family units, multi family. The multi family is 4 plexes, 6, 8, 12 plexes. The single family is basie~y located along the northeast comer of the site... Block 4, which is highlighted in blue, contains 4plexes mainly and two 8plex~. Those units are single story and the remainder which is located south of West 86th Street are aH two story units. There is a little over 7 acres along the southwest comer which is built for, or guided for neighborhood comm~. We've been working on this application approximately...One of the main issues when...appeared bef~'e the Planning Cmnwi_~ion was the fact that the majority of the lots were 15,000 square feet lots. The appUcant reduced the number of single family parcels from, originally we had 18 and now we have a total of 16 units so that it exceeds that 15,000 square foot minimum. In fact a majority of the parceh that abut the existing neighborhood are in the 20,000 square foot range. Another issue we have at this time was hard surface coverage. The applicant nmended the plan to meet the required hard surface coverage. Parks were lacking. Park plan was lacking on the original plan. The applicant changed that and the plans now reflect a new park as well as sidewn_ l~ that connect future TH 101 throughout this subdivision and hopefully sometime in the future with F. Aen Prnirio. The commercial portion and the type of uses within the commercial portion of this site has always been a concern and we would like to see the type of uses that would be there. However the plan, there nren't any plans nt the present time. We tried w highlight some of the uses that could possibly go in there and we have met with the applicant and he seems to be in agreement with staff. One issue that still remains a problem is mass grading of the site. Cunently the site has...especially the northern portion of the site and tmfonunately with these plans, the applicant is maas $rnding the site. We are recommending that the applicant take a look nt this site again and try and maintain the existing ltrade when desi~g units on it. Landscaping was lacking at the be/inning. Now we have bermins. We have additional landscaping than what was provided criginally. The hndscaping around the wetland is going to bo nntive to the wetlands. Buildinl~ elevations were lacking. That was provided agnin with the submittal Ovenlll the plan as a concept has come a long way and we are recommending approval of it. There is one issue that staff should point out. One of the re~ons why we pulled the item off the agenda 2 weeks ago was because we 12 City Council Meeting - November 22, 1993 fotmd out that this alignment does not accomm~ nny of the fu~ 1-17~hway 101 nUgnmems that were ~ by Frei ~gton. We asked the npplicam to revise the plnn and..Block 4 th~ is going I~ see the most chnnge. Well with this design we accom_ m~ Almna~ #3 which wns prepared by Fred I4ois=lngtm~ This option resulls in moving 4 nnk~- The _commercialnreaisrednced~9~to7. Altlfleovm'7ncre~ slisnmentfcrTH 101. IfthntaligDmelRiJDot~byC0Dll~the~?inn~WOllldbolmnllndvoid. With gunran~ which way the Council ts going to vote and they decided _~mt that was a chnnce they we~ goin8 to tnke. So they nrc frilly aware ttmt the Council hns ndopl~ nn ~ nlignment...T'nnnk ym~ JimOslm~son: Mynnmeis~tmOstm~scn. I'mwilhtheTnndem~ We'relocnl~nt7808C~ekridge Cin:le in Bloomington. Also with me ~umi_o~t is Dennis Mathnla with Westwood En~. ~ur engineer on the project. I really don't have any~h~ trig tO ndd to the slnff reix~ Basically we woflmd throt~ thi, plan m~er the last 3 to 5 months. We've wodaxl with the I-Hghwny Dqmnn~nt ou 21~. We've wndaxl with Mr. af~-I~by TH 101. The neighbors to the enst ~tarein singlen~mny nndtriedtowotkonjusta~~ reflect the genm~on of chnnges...gone through that probably nren't necessarily to do fight ~ but we're in agreement with the planning report. We nndersmmi what the concerns are with TH 101. I tn~ ~ :Fred. %o~n todny and if ycm see approval of this, we would continue to mxk with Fred on TH 101...lxeUnfinmy pint. Mayor Chmiel: Okay, ~_~qk ymc Are tlmm 8ny queaflom mm we win have st thi~ Imrflcnlsr time? Conem? Councilwoman ~: I'm cttrio~ ns to whed~ nny of the nei~0o~n~. Okay, if you would just move that MTu~ion I-1i]1~ down so we cnn see yonr _running fnce. 'I'nnnk ~ ~ i8 thnt Highway 101 has no~ been nli_om~d and ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~y 212 ~ ~g ~it~~~~,ff~~m ~a~~~~a~~ ~ Councilwomsn Deckemlo~. Okay. I guess I don't have any pnrttcnlm' qnestkms. I have some comments. Would you like to go flzrough quemious fi]m/ 13 City Council Mee~g - November 22, 1993 Mayor Chmiel: Yes, I'd like to hear some comments. Councilwoman Dockendorf: Do it all in one shot? Okay. Mayor Chmi¢l: Whatever your choice. Councilwoman Dockendorf: I realiT~ this is a concept plan and I have this same problem with all of our concept plans. I would like to see more detail but I realize that that's time...I'm concerned about the TH 101 re. alignment. Are we putting the can before the horse? It is one of the issues that will be coming before the Planning Commission on January...? Paul Krauss: Yeah. We had a neighborhood meeting on...second neighborhood meeting. I think you're aware, Sharmin pointed out Fred's been doing a study on this. There are four alternative alignments starting with don't do anything. Kind of keep it where it is right now with moving it all the way over to the east~.Jmpact on this property. We expect to have that up before you, it should be up to the City Council by February. And we'll be asking you to basically amend, pick which one you want. I mean we'll make some rccommmd,rio~. The Planning Commission will make a recommen~n and tho residents have some feelings about it but pick which one you want. Amend the comprehensive plan accordingly and officially map it which is the step we wouldn't take 4 years ago. So it really becomes cast in stone and then it's a maim' of the long haul of lobbying MnDot... Councilwoman Docke~: Right, which is a concern in terms of could it currently handle this size of a development if it stayed the way it currently is for the next 5-10 years. Paul Krauss: Well, that gets into an area and maybe it would be appropriate for Roger to comment but I tend to get a little bit leery about holding a developer hostage...beyond their capabilities of doing anything about.. Councilwoman Dockendorf: Yeah, I agree. I have concerns about the mass grading. 'I'd really like to see the developer work with the topography of the land. And then there was also the possibility of a chain link fence' between this and Rice Lake Manor which. Mayor Chmiei: I was wondering if it hsd 1 foot of barb. Shannin Al-$aff: Those were requested by the neighbors and as a result. Councilwoman Dockendorf: Well, I would have a problem with that ff that came back. A big problem. Not only looking out for the existing neighborhood but also for the residents coming in living in the mwnhomes. Very happy to see affordable housing being addressed. I just wanted to comment. I don't know if anyone eise read the article about what went on at a City Council meethg up in Maple Orovc a couple weeks ago whore the residents were up in arms about affordable housing. I would hope that we don't see the same thing in our community. I don't know. I'm not sure I'm ready to go ahead with this until we look at the alignment of TH lO1. I'd like to he, ar what the rest of the Council has to say. Councilman Mason: I think in concept it's good. I undemand what Colleen is saying about not liking concept approvals but I think we have to start pushing people or showing people the direction we want them to take and this seems to be good direction. It seems to me that's quite a gamble to say well, I'll put all this time end effort into it and if, gee ff they don't go with Highway 101, then we're goin/to get shot out of the water. I'm concerned about that but ff they're not, I certainly won't. Acceptance of this as a conceptual plan won't be my 14 City Council Meeting - Novembe~ 22, 1993 driving furce between, or how Htghway 101 slmuld be aligned. I would hope that they would not assume would be the cas~ But concept, rally, I c~n tell _tlw this has gone liumlllh a manlmr of chms~ sad it appmrs comfitiom on thi~, That's all for now. Councilm~n 5e~n: Did I ~ you cogecfly flint tim ~aligameat in effect c~ses ~ ~ ~ ~ 4 ~it building ami 2 acres of the commercial? Paul Krauss: No it's not, the question I would wsnt to pose to yuu though is, I don't .m~n m Ulke isme with tlmt at all but it's lcag been kind of me of the concm~ flied away lo Ixing up to the ~ at ~e ~ I haven't had a chance to. There's ~-m_ ally 3 otlm' _comincO_ al cornms around there too. ~ am on the cmnp plan. They've been in theTH 101 study t~fm~ Om_t but to bs ~ w~'v~ n~er ~ a beck ora lot of thought as m how ~ whole interchange is going to work. And maybe that's ~~ we ought to be raking alookat. To the same extent thnt we kind of set the die for how downlown's g~ to develop. Thewe'salot of space for commercial develolmm~ I'H I~. t yon it's nlxmt 60 Io 80 nates.. Paul Krauss: Yeah, it can cm'minly be tack~ tm thaL Some kind of a land us~ Councilman Senn: Yeah, and I mean s~n t~t's not before us but I agree. It's sem~g I'd mall)' like ~o see Mayor C'hmiel: Okay, ~ Councilman W'mg: I don't want to ~ mi. by .~,..t_ ...0 but I Just, ~ Olin who gets very smsitiv~ abou~ using theexistinglsmiformsoad~wzlolxn~nowandlagr~withth~CounciL That'salniodty. Let's slart using existing landfbnm. I get really, I can almost sit back nmi just stamp rinse becau~ w~ u a Coum~ discuss the MUSA line and lgnv we're rnnning OUt of doveJolxib~ sias~ ami how much w~ need it sad w~ discussed~~lehousin~. We never r~ny defined it. We don't hnve it zoned. Wehnvm'tmnilysaklwhnt 15 City Council Meeting - November 22, 1993 density. We call it PUD or standard subdivision, it doesn't num~. But it just masses come in and nobody's doing anything with low density. I mean nobody's coming in with this land and building any attractive low density. And the first comment that comes up is, well ff we approve Galpin and TH 5, what are we going to do with all the traffic. I don't know. Well it's sure going to need a stop sign but we don't know ff we're going to get it. Here we've got a windy, curvy road and we're going to dump how many units on it. 100 and some units. Incredible amounts of housing or vehicles and cars and ttaf~ and city servtce dmius without the, but we're not thinking to the future of the infr~u'ucture. We're sort of buiJding and then we react and build and react and put up more stop lights. I can't get through downtown anymore and they said they'd time them so I could get from A to B but I go from one red light to another red. I don't think the solution of this city is to keep bringing in high density housing and thea put in stop lights and try to react to the masses of people we're bringing in. So I guess, I don't have any problem with this but I hope we never move the MUSA line again and that's where I'm going to take my stand and say, I'm going to vote no, no, no and hope we get a little less density in the rest of the city because moving the MUSA line, aH of these are good proj~ts with good people. Boy oh boy. This isn't the city I'd like to live in. I guess I like my ~ open spaces. Not to diminish affordable housing. I think that's, there could be well planned and well thought out in our process here but okay. The grading. The only thing I would add to this, and I'd like to see the same thing we did to Terry Forbord on the Song property. West 86th Street's going to be n major connector. Wide streec A lot of houses. Cul-de-sacs coming in. I think we ought to go along with the boulevard tn~es and the strict lighting on that street. I'd like to see that a_d~__ed ns a condition when it comes back. That there be street lights and boulevnnt trees on West 86th Street. And now that you've allowed me to editorialize, that's nil I've got. Thank you. Mayor Chmiel: Thank you and good nighL Okay. Paul, let me ask a question when we get these com:epuufl plans. I noted that there's no PB siguatut~ on any of these. Is it normally not required even though it's a concept plan that should be tm these plans themselves? And an mr.~itectural. Paul Krauss: We really, I mean I know that you raise that point repeatedly with the formal submittals and we've been trying to do that. On a concept it's so touchy feely and we've been working with their engineers on it. They clearly have those people on boarcL But we haven't asked them to vedf-y the documents in teavns of... Mayor Chmiel: Okay. So the next shot that comes at us, it will have them on there at that partiodm' time? Paul Krauss: Yeah. Mayor Chmiel: Okay. I too had just a little bit of concegns regarding TH 101. Will that have capacity enough to carry the volume that will be coming off of TH 212 as well as proceeding on 212 plus aH the additional tmf~ that's going to be coming from developments within that particular area. Is that going to be enough to Paul Krauss: There has not been a uaffic study done since the Esslm'n Carver County mlffic..~ what that said is clearly this thing had to be upgraded concurrently with Highway 212. In the short ~ I can't tell you definitely one way or the ~ except to shoot from the hip. I mean we've already upgraded half of firs road. It has a good intersection with Highway $. I don't know ff the analogy's an sppwlxi~e one but you know it's probably not any worse than Highway 101 is north of Highway $, which is not to say it's great And it certainly is sufficient in some safety respects. Again, this is a State Highway. You know the State of Florida has a concurrency requirement that says nothing happens until everything's in place and it's not a taking to do that. But where we have develolX~, for example we have the Terry Foflmrd, Lundgren is looking at the Rogers- Dolejsi piece south of here which is 114 units. Single family homes. That will add 10 trips per home. We nre 16 City Council Meeting - November 22, lgg3 MnDot off of dend center. MayorChmiel: 'I'm'sacha~ Just a chore. Oln~Ilfn~s~~I~I~'ttaveanyothn'~ Othea' than Ihe fact of tl~ grading as well n~ I guess I see that as a concern with thnt to mtnimi~ ~ ~ng of that panicn!m' site. We always, when we go to PUD's, I want to maim ~ Whet is thc city really getting for this as welL Iwnnttoimowjustemunlyth~___tpnrtofic Bntothetthnn_thntlllne~Idon'tlmv~say other questions at t_ht~ time. Any od~er discussion? Councilman Senn: lhaveaquestionffI~ Paul, howdoesthisrulal~bnck,~l~~~~ alignment problem effectively with TH 101 but is there anyway tlmt th{it tlllt] _o~6.allraltoa ~ b~ ~ into this along Highway 101 so it's dealt with_or st least nccc~_ ~ relpn'dless of how TH 101 in eff~ gets configured. I mean ff I'm und~ this right, we're ~ no~ goin8 to tni~_, finn! nclton on this until w~ do on TH 101 so shonl~'t we just stick itin as a condilion that we're going to t~lni~ the Irnil nkmg TH 101, Councilman Senn: It's not that far off from it nnd it seems to me ,hnt you could come up with~yafnirly reasonable trail path thnt would ~ ~t ~ a litt~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ of _t.Jmq_~In~ ~ wh~it I'V~ seen on the plnns, cosrect? Okny. CounctlnumSeun: Yenh, I'dliimtoseethn_tndd~ Theonlyothm'thing~I~~~I'muotsu~ whether this is appropriate for th~ deveJoper or for thc city but it ended up to be kind ~ ~g ~ coming. You imow and the responses we~ real interesting. How do we know? And stnff nnd I'm not sure whether it's something we should look nt the ~ to do cr ffit's semeltflng thc city stumld do butI would ~ like it to be a ~msid~'alion now as we're _1~__ ' g with a couple of these lXUjecls lo set ~ ~ ll0tify th6 p6opl6 tJ~tt thi~ hotlsing's [tvilJlab~. ~ ~ ~l's avm'lnMe at ~ ~ ~ ~o 8o f~f as to rrm it that_. Really Iguess~itbutl~oin~~gmeml, c~ I'm going to say ncmml nmdming modes. BntI it's something joint. I dm't know but I think. MayorChmiel: Yeah, lthinkthnt'ssomethinllth~t~hndlnuugbtups~n~tlmengonswe, lL Andlth~nk ~p's something that could be looked et to see. A question thn~ I was going Io lmvc is, whnt Is the, whet nm going to be the costs of these specific _nni~ff/ Do y~ hav~ shy idea? I know timt Cenl~ Ires ~ their's 17 City Council Meeting - November 22, 1993 and your's is probably going to be $5,000.00 less. No, I'm just. Councilwoman Dockendorf: I think it said 70 to 80 in the report. Mayor Cluntel: Yeah it did say in there but is that still what you're really looking ar/ Jim Ostenson: Yes, that's the price range. We actually have three different price units and mffortuna~ly this item got on the a~nda a little earlier than we thought and thc fellow from Rottlund's not here. We have more of a traditiomtl townhouse that's on this plan in several different places that would be approximately $100,000.00. We have the villa which would be the 70's and the 80's. And then we have a rambler unit which is really designed for ernlxy nesters and we have a one level unit that would be, I think this is about $100,000.00 also. Councilman Senn: Yeah, it said 80 to 90 in here. Jim Ostenson: The~ are really 3 different multi fnmily options on this site. May~ Chmiel: Okny, thanl~. Paul. Paul Krauss: Mr. Mayor, the HRA had authorized Fred Hoisington to do some work with the major employers in town to do some survey work to find out what the marketing need is, what the desire is to live in the city and he's in the process of doing that now. And it's been talked about from time to time to see whether or not there are ways in which the city could intervene and assist in terms of possibly down payment assistance programs or something like that. We think that a lot of people cnn afford to be in housing like this but some people couldn't afford...to get into it. If there's some way to defray some of that cr absorb some of that and there's some programs potentially out there that do th~ That that would help. And I believe we've got our financial counsel looking into the possibility of what's just out there. Councilman Senn: With MI-IFA and nil that. Paul Krauss: Yeah. With the State, right The State programs. Councilman Senn: Yeah, the State... Mayor Chmiel: I think we're, Michael did bring that up at the HRA at thai particular time and they are in pursuit of that. Okay with that, any other discussion? ~g none I'll entertain a motion of the recommendation for. Councilman Mason: I move approval of the conceptunl p.hmned unit development east of Highwny 101, north and south of West 86th Street with the concerns noted by Council about mass grading and the boulevard and the Councilman Senn: And the trail. Councilman Mason: And the trail. Mayor Chrniel: Okay, and you did indicate the PUD 934? 18 City Council Mcc~g -Novcmbcr 22, 1993 Councilm~ Senn: Second. latest edition ofStandard Specificaliom and DmilPlates. 'Fne applicant will be mquired to supply detniled construction! plnnn for nil utility ~ street i~ents for the City to ~ Ired fonnally ~. S~ grades throughout the subdivision should be beuveen 0.7~% and 7JY%. e applicant may also be mqutred to prepare an EAW. J All wamr q~nn_,y trcannent ponds shall include outlet control macmres to control disclange ram lxn'mmnt ~o NIJRP standards. Most h'keJy the City will be mnn~n~nlng the zmntion ponds and ~ the at~ shall dedicate the ~ essemenm o~ the ~nn~ plax. ~ nccess to.the z~emion ponds should determine :ff there is excess capacity in the Lake Susan I-Tills line to determine Hmils Of service. The 1 the oversized (l~tnch) wateunaJn, the City shall credit the appliclmt by means of rednc~ in their Marshal's ~ e tolcon l~nCh ,hnn m th~~ ~ lh~ Ia~l~..~l ix1 ~ nnx~ m~ f~ a 100- ~a~ ~ m ~ The ~ of the mmntlon pond shall be ~pd?~! m restrict the 4iscluu~ to ~he 19 City Council Meeting - November ~, 1993 predeveloped runoff mm. The pond shall also be constructed to NURP standards to improv~ wat~ qtmllty. Should the City's storm water management plan provide alternative regional pending on.site, the applicant shall work with the City in implementing the best location for said pending. 8. The preliminary and final plat shall be contingent upon the City Council authorizing and awarding a public improvement project for the extension of trunk sanitary sewer and water facilities to service tiffs site. 9. The applicant should provide a buffer area between the development and proposed Trunk I-~ghway 212 ss well as Trunk Highway 101. The buffer ~ should consist of both landscaping materials and benning. 10. The applicant shall include a drain.tile system in all public struts where the adjacent dwellings have no other acceptable means of discharging such a pond, wetland or storm sewer. 11. The applicant shall dedicate to the City with final platting, the necessary fight-of-way detenu~ from a traffic study for future and 86th 8uv, e,c 12. During construction of utilities and street improvements along 86th Street, the applicant shall lxovide provisions for maintaining ingress and egress for the existing homes on Tigua Lane as well ss emergency vehicles. 13. Submittal of PUD plans consistent with the recommendations of the staff report and Engineer's memo. 14. The applicant shall provide density calculations for each lot within Blocks 1 and 4. These figures shall exclude the fight-of-way and wetland areas. The landscaping plan shall be revised to add more trees along West 86th Street, along Hwy. 212 and Hwy. 101 right-of-ways and between the area separating comm~ and residential lots. 16. Meet the following conditions of the park and recreation commission. Aa The applicant shall provide a recreational amenity in the vicinity of Lot 6, Block 1. This facih'~ to include typical park amenities such as landscaped grassy are, ss, picnic tables and park benches, play apparatus, tennis and basketball corms, etc. B. Concrete sidewalks be conswucted on the sou& side of West 86th Sm'.,=t from Highway 101 east to the project's terminus and on "A" street from West 86th Street north to the street's mminus. C, A bituminous trail be conslructed encircling wetland No. 15 connecting the sidewalk system to ~be "park" site. In consideration fca' the conswuction of said trail, the applicant shall receive uail fee credit equal to the cost of consuuction. Said cost to be determined by the applicant for presentation to the city with documentation for verification. D. Full park fees shall be collected at the time of building permit applications at the ra/e then in force. 17. Concept plans outlining general layouts (with alternatives), building massing, square footage limitations and development intent need to be developed for the commercial area. We realize that the devclopcr, Tandem Properlies, will not be owning or developing this area. Ownership is being retained by Al Klinge2hutz. 20 City Council Meeting - Novcmbe~ 22, 1993 18. 19. While not ~, we would ~ m 1~! ~ wi:h ~ ~ msardin8 t~e pmm~ establishment of a hou~ing distri~ over a portion of fl~e sil~. The city has bern actively seeking a means to 21. It would bc desirable to have the Hwy. I01 ~ issue resolved. This is beyond the at~t's control and we Lt~_ hoped to have it con~ by now. By the time fromm_; ~ t~ requ~ this nmy have The project is not hrge enough to U~pa~ EAW and st~ is not certain tf me would be useful in tile di~ns~n. Howard, ~f the ~ _Commta~i~'m ~ it would ~xt in making a d~mminn~m, an Street light and boulevard trees be IMtnfled Ri(rog the mikctm* street In the devdopmmt. 26. A trail be inslnlled akin8 ~ IOL All voted in favor find the motion carried APPRO qQ TWC'r. ScouHarc Mr. MaycrnndCity~ Fll _comment htefly m the packet of ~;~ included in thc Council lmckeC The first of month when I originnlly prepared the memo t~ mi ndditioml 3 hours of uncertainty regarding whnt budget cms may be necessary, I'm dianging my xecmnmend~ton xc"gmding the police 21 City Council Meeting - November 22, 1993 County for the same 32 hours ~ day police coverage ns we have had this year. The Sheriffs Delxmment is requesting a signed contract ns soon ns possible and fimtkly are only waiting on Chanhnssen to mnk~ their porsmmel assi~unents and other required plans. On Priday I met with Sheriff Wallin and Chief Deputy Castleberty to explain the situation with om' budget to them and the ~ty of what cots might become necessary and they have told me that it meets with their approval that if we enter into a contract for 32 hours, which we presently have, that we could proceed with an a~_ex~dum in the future after the '94 budget is examined to see if it will support the contract ina~a~se. I've done my best to make it clear that the Council in it's budgeting priorities are..,additional support service person to take care of the problems in customer service thru we've experience because of the imrensed work load. The addition of a pm-time CSO to suplxm the community seodce officer program demands and to continue with the animal control eontract...budget permits the p~ of additional police contrnct dollars with the County. It c~eates a new law enforcement pmition. With the budget uncertainties I cannot recommend the additional police contract time if it will use money that would otherwise be used for other more immediate neexls. An aitmmive is to consider budgeting the ndditiouai money that Councilman Wing has recommended for unffic enf~t and to again consider the extra patrol in 1995 ff the budget so requires. And so it's my recommendation that the Council now an~ us to enter into a contract with the Carver County Slm'iff's Depm'Unent to maintain the 32 hours of police coverage we now have and to continue reviewing the optional position with Carver County in the '94 brO..oct to support that Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. Any disc~ssi_'_on? Richard. Councilman Wing: At some point the Council is going to have to bite the bullet on the money and keep ahead of things. So although I can't disagree with Scott's recommendations, tonight just conceptually, just conceptually we approved 422 new high density homes, 422 new homos in somewhat high density housing and we know that those high density housing are high call areas. Just by their nature and statistically I think that would, we have no trouble showing that. So we go from, we stay at 32 with the growth of the dry. At some point we're going to have to take a giant leap here at some point and pay the price so my eouee~ is the 32, I guess Scott you would probably agree does an okay job but that's today? 5coRHnm. Y~. Councilman Wing: But with the growth it starts to stretch itself. Unless we keep kind of moving ahead here with the growth, suddenly we're behind and we really have inadequate police service all of a sudden, even though we might add a radar car and we have the CSO's. The visible palml cars aren't able to answer calls. So that's my only concern is that by having to watch the dollars here, and I think the Public Safety Commission years ago said, when you spend city dollars, and that was adopted by Council unanimously. When you spend city dollars, you take your police, fire and public safety dollars first. You spend those where the need is and then you move on to the rest of the city budget because those were really the, we spend less than other cities to begin with by far and we had, there was some catch up to do so I just remember that ~_h_n__t report came out in the 80's, whenever it was, stated that the Council should prioritize public safety dollars and then move into the city budget per se. $o I'm hesitant to find ourselves falling behind here by not going to the 35 hours. May~ Chmiel: Okay, good. Thank you. Colleen. Councilwoman Dockendorf: I guess I can't argue with you Richard but I think that we need, I mean Carver County needs to get the personnd irons squared away and we haven't hashed out the budget completely and if they have the ability to add additional hours if we deem that necessm% and we likely will or who knows what 22 City Council Meeting - November 22, 1993 Councilman Mason: IngreewithScott. Iwnnt~~~~~amin~~ CoundlnmnWing just made some comment about high density axons lrn.. we have ~lly nppmv~ typimlly have Commission, if I can just mk~ a ~t to respond m ~ Wing's comments ns well enforcement, smlmal control, who do I call type of cans, we need m be able to ~ We have to ~velop n crime prevention pFogzmn th~ if stronger than we'v~ been nme to. I think w~ have fight now the pnlml service that this city can be extremely proud fcr the reasons we'.ye discussed mm~y times befm~ We're S~tin8 n beck of a deal nnd it's nmde ~tly for what we need. Now we have to examine what ~ we need in support needs nnd cooperation with the Sheriff's office thnt the n__ddifi~ml_ 3 hours is meant to be. And I'm not saying tonight rh~ it's either or. I'm still hoping that the bridget might supp(~ but ns the Public Safet~ ~ I have to tell you what I feel a~ the immediate needs and that's what I've done. A?in; the SII~ hall been good enough to say if we want to ent~' into this after the budset process, the ~n~_'_rm_n_! time., he's frae with tim, and that can be winked out Or just the option of inclndiog traffic time and ~wicw this ,,? in '~5. So I don't see it as an either or situation. Fm just asking for the 32 houri so the Sheriff's del~t:nent can get on with their any equipment ~ they need. May(x Chmiel: Okay. Anything Councilm~ Semc ShouldI~-areal__~nflM. p(gtflcnlsulfnnem. Oee, I~wl~werl~hinsyouaUsaid. You know I ngree with Dick in one way. I'm not luHy w"nnS to commit myself __tr~t_; you know ~ it's 32 or 35. I mean we're winln~ to So with your ~ but I'd really ~ to finish the budget Moccss and look at the oventH needs as it relates m the budget process. And I think we do need to my out in front on this stuff very definitely. I think it's kind of in~E. if you watch the blotter ~ whalever. I mean thc cslln have been ~g ccmliderably. It's also I think real int~t~.a fi.you wnlgh it. tlmt with Square opening, quite a number of calls lmvc bccn inttis _trod rclagng to lVladu~ Square. With Tmltet opening, 23 City Council Meeting - November 22, 1993 there's been quite a number of calls in relationship to Target ini_fi_n_fln8 and stuff of which trite a lot of time and effort and this is an area we just can't slack at all. I think we've got to get out in front on but I think we also have to realize that many of the needs, or some of the needs occurring through the TIN districts aren't really funding it at all through the payment of taxes and I think we should maybe even look at some other source... service or districts or whatever that can really help us get out in front on this because I don't think s?in it's fair to necessarily take the whole crux of that and throw it back against the citizens. But at thb same time I think this is really an area that we shouldn't be penny wise and a pound foolish so to speak. Mayor Chmiel: I guess I did have some discussions with Scott on this as well and of course 35 hours I look at, I think that's going to help within the community ns well. There's no question. But I was also looking at some other parts of that. Just seeing ff somehow through volunteer services we cnn get some other people working within the public safety department and maybe making some solicitations to some of our seniors or those who are within the city who would be willing to provide some of that time and attention th_n_t's needed to provide that kind of service that he's r__nllriug about. So I think we can sort of pursue that aspect of it as well. I would like to see that continued and probably with Park and Rec to see ff any of those seniors would be willing, and if there's any other volunteers within the community who would like to do this ns well This is a public service message. Thank you. Any other discussion? If not I'd like a motion so we can get this to the Slm'lff's deparunent nnd things can get tied down and we'll go with the 32 hours with the potential of the addendum. Councilman Senn: I move approval. Councilwoman Doakendorf: Second. Councllm_nn Senn moved, Councilwoman Dockendorf seconded to enter into the X994 eontrnct with Carver County for a minimum of 32 hours of police coverage per day and If the 1994 budget Is able to support the addlflonnl hours, that a sepnrnte eontrnct will be entered into for the additionnl 3 hours per day. AH voted in favor and the motion carried unnnJmougly. (The City Council took a short recess at thts point in the meeting.) COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS: GAMBLING ORDINANCEt COUNCILWOMAN DOCKENDORF~ Councilwoman Dockondorf: Yeah, as I just said I'll keep it short and sweet becsuse I had asked to take it off the agenda and Mark had wanted it put back on. The reason I had put it on in the first place is that I'd like the city to, I don't know if conduct a study or just do research on my own about the real costs and the real benefits of having gambling within the city and also do an analysis of where our future potential sites nre because I have some concerns. And they go beyond just social concerns of gambling. They address %~in real costs in terms of crime. I mean you read about the Subway incident and just what real public corn are associated with gambling and also look at what the teal benefits are. And I _r~li~ theft_ there me. I mean this city does profit from it because a good portion of those dollars have to be spent within our city limits. So that's my issue but I'm not ready to ~__nik about it tonight. I think Mark wanted to address more the organinflons that we're approving. Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, and I think what you mentioned in our discussion here, that the National Le~ue of Cities, they have a symposium covering some of these things as well and that you'll probably be attending that to gather some more data and some information? City Council Meeting - November 22, 1~3 at a consideration which relates to ff we are going to do iL And _d~t's not sfmddn~ to the relative mmtts of whether we should or not. But ff we am going to do it, I still feel stnmgly that the d~nnrS should be dollars which turn around and directly benefit the commrmt~ pesiod. And a certain amount I suppose, you know you can define...10% or whatever that's going to.=admtnimmlive or ottmr ~ but we have plenty of needs and uses in Cha~assen and I'd really like to see it my here and quite fxankly just disagree with the opinion thnt came out of Public Safety and woold lilm m ~ m ~ ~t ~ in fact ~ with such a clmnge. Councilmnn W'mg: I'd just like to follow up with Mad= And Scott, it's my nnderstandtnS nnder Slate law, we can take by ordinance nny nmount we wnnt right~ RogerKnutsm: I would have to review thc Smml~ I believe thcre are fimimtions cn how much we can mquim to go back to the community. Fd hnd to pull the Stamtc to give you the answcr. I'vedmmitbefomandI briefed the Council when they passed the la'esmt optinsn~e. I can just dig it up and slmre it with you ff you'd h-ire. Councilman W'mg: 'l'nat's why I brought it up. I nad it and I mnemlx~r it was considerably mm~ I mean I' would just move we go to that maximum LX'mi~hL No mm~ ~nr_ You know it's lwctty simple, Councilman Senn: Yeah, I know thete's somc limilalkm in tlm~ on what you have to anow lo go out. Iagree, I mcan that's what I was thinking. Whatever the maximum is, I'd like to go. Councilman Wins: Pretty simpl~. I'd support that. Councllm~ Mnson: XngenemL Accounting, thnt'sacoocem. What I'm nboui to say lms to do with mly how our city is mn and my only cmcern is how the city is mn and what is best for the entire ct~. I tltink w~ expect fxom city staff a pleasanL straight forward demeanm' when they deal with li~ citizens and I thinir they ~ that. I that ne~ the way thc staff, let me rephrase thst~_ I ~ink when peopl~ al~ dealing in ~tlonnl ways, it's harder fw them to set their job done. I thlnk by vimm of the fact that v~ hM two ~ planned unit City Council Meeting - November 22, 1993 developments come...I think that's a tribute to how staff is working. I was just mlklng with Paul and I understand that one of them went through a number of permeatation~ before it even came to tm. I would hope that as Council deals with staff, and how we deal with everyone in the city, it's that old thing. I think you know it's the old Golden Rule and I hope that all of us on Council deal the gay way not only with the citizen~ of Chanhassea but with staff, that I think works very hard for the city. Councilman Wing: I can't let that go. . Mayg Chmiel: Okay. I'll let you gay something. Councilman Wing: Thank you Mike. I agree. We're under Plan B government or Optiooal Plan B or whatever and under that plan of government the City Mmmger runs the city. The City Manager has a lot of leeway. A lot of responsib~ty. Under Plan B we're subserviant ff you will to the City Manager. He can kind of do and say and go where he wants. Mayor Chmiel: Do you want to rephrase that? Councilman Wing: ...it's unfortunate that you know me but no one else does. I gue~ I wanted to meet with Mark and Don over an issue on the City Hall and Mark reacted to the City Hall issue and none of tl~ re~t of tm did. And I've not been able to meet with Mm'k and Don but ~ is hattxged for ~orne time now because Mark was concerned about it. And I guess I just want to gay in regard~ to our di~tu~ion the other night at the budget where you presented the Board with the City Hall, and again I apologize for not having t~lir_~xi to Mark about this but at £gst I said you know, maybe we could have kind of, there was a different mad to take. On the oth~ hand, when the City Manager is in charge of the city and I think he does have the responsibility to keep ahead of things and come in with ideas and thoughts and suggestions and he do~ have the fight to ~:~e, nd mone~ and do what he sees fit and I'm getting concerned that we're trying to nit pick rucq' to th~ nth degree but we're losing the big picture. And I think stuff is doing an excellent job. I think the history of staff is doing an . excellent job and I think we should try and get out of the business of nmning the city and trying to administer thc city sitting here and let these uained people we've hired nm those depm'unents and try and get back to being a little more visionary and a little more into thc future and stop dragging through some of the day to day stuff. I think if a Council member wants to do that, they have every right but I'd like to see it done dm'lng office hours. Not sitting here at a Council meeting catching everybody off guard all the time. So I just want to, you know Don went downtown and caught a $500,O00.O0-gZg)O,O00.O0 error. Geez, let's start giving credit where credit's due here and not trying to pick the daylights out of things. So maybe I'm going too fro' here but. Mayor Chrniel: Amen, okay. Councilman Wing: Mike, thank you. Well put. Councilman Mas~rg You're welcome. Mayor Chmiel: Alright, we'll move onto Administrative Presentations. .ADMINISTRATIVE PRESE~ATIONS: LAKE SUSAN HILLS 9TH ADDITION UPDATEt AND TRO'VFERS RIDGE TBFF. PRESERVATIONt PLANNING DIRECTOR. 26 City Council Meetin8 - November 22, 1~3 Public Present: Nm2 aob Smith Donald Dehn Jim Ostenson 10'20 L~I~. Su~n l-ftll~ Dliv~ 417 ,~ntn Fe Trail Clamlmssen l-lilk Driv~ No. 3459 Washington Drive, Easnn 100 ~. ~ Lodge, lvn~ Tandem ~ 5120 Edina lmtnmkl Blvd. Paul~-~ Mr. Mayor, iflmay, 8AnndBnrenc~nnnyo~fuuinsaeembtnedilnn. Th~y~~l~ same issue. At the last meetin~ you...visitm' IXe~n_ t~_~, Bob Smithbnrg, who is a neighlx~ of th~ 9th ~,~ion raised some questim~ or some issues about tree ixt~tvnlion..on thnt site and I was haired to come upon ~selves to work, as one of their issue, a tree ~ ~ And Councilmnn Wing's ~ involved with that and I believe Councilw_~rmn DOC~ a little bit. *l'ney are a very wen intcnttoned group but I think it kind of gets to one of the issues that I raised when I lm~ the environn~lal commission. anything else and fxankly sometimes lose ni.~ht of what the nl_timn~, goal. Unfortnm~y I was n~t able to be n participant in a lot of their deliberations. I was in South Ame~ most of the summ~ ~ tht~ was haptmdng, Staff was out at that site I don't know how ninny times. We tmm~ it with the DHR. We toured it with our forester. We toured it with ourselves. We went out thcre with the dcveJolmrs _smd by and. lmlleIthtnkbo~of street. So there was a lot of creative things tl~ we~ done. If you could lmve 20/~ hind sisht, wheretnmy l~a~ml opinion I think it went too far is th~ tried not only to do all those measures I just mmtioned but then also to protect trees in front of and to the sides of homes and I couldn't filpwe out how many u~es there at~ lint for argument sake, let's sa~ ttmre*s 4~0 trees they had to lWeserv~ A lot of those trees in the front ymds and side yards and you lttemfly go out to Tree ~0'*~. *mat one's Sot to be ~ lint 907, that can be cut and it but we've been out to the site any nnmber of times, I think re~ directly to the questions that were raised by Mr. Smithburg at the last meeting_ We tried to do thinss...but we've been ~ ~ with Joe City Council Meeting - November 22, 1993 Miller Homes. Bottom line is, is I don't think they did a half bad job. There were, I think our tally was 17 trees that were removed that shouldn't have been. And our forester intern recalls that some of them were potentially dead and they used a professional tree company who work~ with us to remove these trees and when we have that many trees, I mean did some of these blow down duriug storms in the sununer. Some of them die anyway. Were some of them missed? Was it a perfea inventory that was taken and when they went in there and when clearing out dead and dying mntefiah, was this actually dead and dying and we didn't see it the first time. All of those thiugs are possible. Where the developer acknowledges nnd we acknowledge they messed up is when they deviated from the plan they neglected to call us. Now it would have been difficult to come out there 17 times for 17 trees but some of these things were dumped together. But I think they acted in good faith in that rel/ard. They spent a lot of money for the tree contractor. There's no reason for them to have messed up. They aCV~Ally saved trees around the ones that they cut by accident or in error or intentionally and d_id_r~'t infann us. So there didn't seem to be any clear malicious intent here. And based upon that, I was proposing to the City Council, and I knocked it off in a letter...~t we ~ that we be willing to accept the 17 trees as a fact of life. I mean that there was no malicious intent. Therefem there should be no penalty out them. One of the other places though that there was a problem out on the site is some of the contractors on the Joe 1Vfiller site took down the tree conservation fencing. Tr~e protection fencing ~ then rolled heavy equipment over the roots. And they didn't do it every place but they did it in a few places and it's lxetty obvious where that was done. And we have a list of trees we've developed where that happened. And we have the standard option with - that is we sit on their money for :2 years and then we see what's left living aria' 2 years, which is a pretty reactive position to take. And the developer kept on saytnl~, well how do you know _ths_t I killed the tree and it wasn't an act of God or it wasn't cut down by a homeowner after they moved in? There's no clean answer to that. And their contractor, their tree company su~ested as an alternative, instead of being reactive and waitiug for trees to die, that they 80 in there and, I forget the exact technical term but kind of power fe~_ li,e on 3 foot centers with a pump machine where they put a rod down and they're basically not only fertilizing, you can fertiliTe a tree but it decompacts the soil. Kind of frees up the soil, which seemed to be a much mom appropriate thing than sitting around.., waiting for the trees to die, we're act, ally spending probably less money although we...tryin8 to maintain all the trees that are supposed to be saved. So in the leuer that we .wrote back to Joe Miller Homes, we proposed that that be the approach and ff that's acceptable to you, that's what we will do. Keep in mind that the tree preservation plans for the 9th Add_ilion and for Trotlm's Ridge ar~ in the development contract and they're pretty restrictive. I don't have a whole lot of latitude to do these things on my own so I need to bring that back up to you so it's kind of npprola'iate that Mr. Smithburg did. We had to do that anyway. That's one issue. The second issue here is how we handle trees that are supposed to be protected when you're buildin8 a home. And maybe I can cite Dave Dummer's issue here, and I'm stu~ he'll speak to you directly. This is typical of what happens when a city Iries to m_i_cro manage. Dave was looking to build a home that was, I think it was basically a retirement home. It was a single footprint, a single floor home. Kind of larse and arguably not every home should fit on every lot but the~ were, ff I recall, one major oak tree and that was the big issue on this thins.., oak trees ca there. I think it was a 46 inch oak tree. And then tbere was a clump of 3 maples that were younger and healthier and I think Dave had Jeff Schultz out there and said, well what do you want me to cut. Should I cut this old oak tree or should I cut the maples? And the correct answer is, the development agreement says you can't cut any of them. And in thi~ instance the nmjor oak tree had a wound in it that wasn't visible when the tree survey was done. And it was ca the back side and there was under growth that was eventually removed and they saw it. And I was trying to find a way out of this and I naked Jeff and said, well is this wound receat? I mean was ~ something that was done during construction or lightning hit it or something? And the answer I got was no. It could have happened 10 or 20 years ago. I said well is the tree in eminent danger of dying? Is it going to die next year'/ In the next few years and the answer was no. It may live another 10 to 20 years. Well I could hardly define that as a tree that I supported they lake out and I basically had to 8et back to Dave and Nikki and say, I can't do anything about it. This is really cae where the 28 City Council Meeting - November 27, 1993 everything within our power. We talk~ to the Tree Board about this and I think they agreed. We ~ do everything within our power to massage a deveJopme~ ~ so that the deck ~ sta~k~ tn favor of ,~,,,.i~i~i~ tree preservation. We'll...whe~e it's aplm:iprla~ but I sum don't want my staff to ~ in a shomin~ matth between a builder nnd a future resident md a devulolM~ wlmre ~y comes out somewhat ~ Bspecinlly when 9 times out of 10 people win do the right thing nnywny. I menn you're fl,~ nbout lots that are being sold for a ~ and ff you're ~ $20,000.00 ar $~0,000.00 for a treod lot, you're not likely to clear cut the thing. I mean it's just common sense. Andourer~_'.o~nn~ordinance,~~~~~ Board, I think tmformnat~y didn't rely on common sense as much as it should have. But the Tree Bonut nccepted that change in philosophy ,nd ~ ns to crone back with a new m'dinaxu~ that nddrmses those PUD thnt you saw at your lnst meeting, uses th_at mo~ current tlflnktng. We ~tv~, w~ massnged the ofthetree. Notnllownnyconstmcl~n 150~ of the tfistnnce of the top of the tree crown. AndIgotncaHfrom no~ only can they not put equipmmt m the ~iteo they c~n't ev~ walk on the ~ Wlma ym lint. our ~ ~howed the ~ of what's 150% of the tre~ crown ami ~'~ ~~ly ~o w~ m w~k m th~ ptOlmrty, publi,hed by the Amea~m PI,nntng A~oct~flon th~t'~ CO~m]~t with tho l~ommmd~m ~h,t I'm getting out bufldable. They may not be ~ f~ every home~ I~ffth~oddl~mblemctol~upth~we~¥ MaycrChmicl: Okay, good. lsthereanyme, did you hnve nnything mnm to my to that~ the spring for the ovei~ plan. I had a chance in thc dis~ dmt we lind; we trk~ to put tolp~hcr a little bit 29 City Council Meeting. November 22. 1993 of information that would be helpful to just to analyze what our problem is. I made a couple of overheads and ff we can go through to those. Mayor Chmiel: Sure. Dale Runkle: Again the addition that we're developing now, and I have not been out ther~ tn this last few days but it's my understanding that the streets arc now in and b~ and the development is ready to commence. Looking at thc overall development of !-~be Susan, it originally star~ off with 90 single family lots and of those 90 single family lots it went through kind of a count today. 37 of those are wooded lots, and as you can see, the color didn't come out but as you can see the darker shaded ones that are on the north and south. Looking at those 37 wooded lots, where we arc today with development plans coming in, 12 of those lots we specifically had problems with. At least of our inventories of the last day or so the kind of pinkish or reddish lots are the lots that have a number of trees scattered front to back and then center and what we tried to put down there in thc last day or two is a footprint of a 70 x 50 foot pad, not knowing the specific heine style that will go on there but typica~y for a lot that's going to range from 60,000 plus, it's an tmdermand _that there will be a 3 car garnsc and a home that's going to fit more of the 70 foot width than the 50 x 50 than what the development plan had originally shown. So we're trying to get mote realistic to see what kind of problems we wotdd really have now coming into the rest, looking at how we can construct homes on atl of the lots and still try to meet the criteria to save as many trees as we possibly can. So looking at where we nrc now, we had 19. lots thnt definitely...that will have another 7 lots that arc questionable. Those are more of the brownish tan lots and those questionable ones arc coming into, there's a number of lots but how big are those trees and there's the issue that came up n littler earlier in regards to canopies and what everyone can survey, put, locate the tree on the lot but what does that acto_n_~ly do until you actually go out and have a survey. And the items that we're running into, and this is the lot that Paul's referring to earlier that Drive was looking at but this is the, sorry it's backwards. The survey and the plan that we've been working with kind of located the trees where the dark black spots are but we physically had our surveyor go out and look at what the canopy is for those individual trees and the shaded area now is what that actual canopy is of the tree that's located. When you start looking at what that canopy docs for the lot, we're down to less than n 40 foot building pad on that particnlnr lot without going into either one or more of thc canopies of the other uees. So we're sitting there trying to..with the lots that we now have created, how we can best minimize the impacts on the Uees but still provide a home and n neighborhood that everyone's expected because it's definitely going to be the homes that nrc going to be larger, you know up in that $250,000.00 price range and everything else. And with that, a 40 foot pad, a 50 foot pad isn't going to work for that'type of neighborhood too wcli. So ! guess we're at the point now of knowing which lots we've got some problems with. Knowing that out of 90 lots we've got 1:2 that are real problems for us and if we can start thc work on those lots on an indivt_dn_n_! basis with, once we get thc actual house plan, thc purchaser looking at it, uying to fit the home thc best we can. Locating them nround thc trees. Saving ns many trees but still knowing we may lose 1 or 2 trees on the lot. Still saving a lot of trees on the lots but trying to just get thc best, as Paul's saying, for everyone. The homeowner, the developer and the city who want the best neighborhood. And that's the situation we're rtmning into fight now. In the past we have winked with the development process of trying to save trees. Granted there had been some trees taken out but ! think tn our development processes we've had on site people trying to manage the different conltactors. Being cognizant of the trees. Trying to save thc Utes. We engaged with a tree specialist. We have Don Delta who has a degree in urban forestry in the neighborhood with us trying to help us put together the uee plan...that everytlflng that went on. We did go and try to hi~ the most professional people we thought to help us get thc best development we possibly conld. So it isn't that we're out there just trying to clear cut. Do the development that is not tn the best interest of the city. ! mean what we're trying to do is get the best development for everyone and we're at a stand still right now because we do have some problems with some of the lots that we have trying to fulfill the 3O City Council Meeting - November 22, 1993 Mnyor Cbmi~: Thnnir :you. T~ th=~ ~ dst wi~ing to ~ DonDe~: Yeah, mynnme'sDonDdm. I'm the furest~r for S &SandlthinknsDal~pointed~ff~~ is dealt with on an individual basis there's, y~. know th~ drip line, mensmmnent of th~ drip line out to a Iree for some trees...lmve to tn~- out. So l think it's a good argumem to look nt tt on a lot by lot lmi~ Andthe~are here. stud~ing this I gum sinc~ tl~ ~ of M~ch ~f this ~ ho~ ~d m fit ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ m~ng ~'t ~y ~ go ~ ~ ~ Fm ~ g~g ~. ~~'s~a~~~g~a~~~~~ · ~ Iw~ ~m m~ ~~~Fmc~m~I~~~~~~~~ ~ ~ ~d out ~~y. ~I~~~~~~~m~~~a 31 City Council Meeting - November 22, 1993 Bob Smithburg: I'm Bob Smithburg, 8657 Chanhassen Hills Drive North. Mr. Mayor and Council members. I sympathize with developem and conlractors. With Mr. Kranss. I know it's a tr~nendous problem. Seeing that it is such a problem, could we possibly discuss the conlinuation of a forester f~r the city of Chanhassen. I've heard budgetary problems. Possibly even allow this. My concern is, who do we Ixust7 I watched the project. I could go on and on and on. I guess that's what I'd like to ask for at this point. Monem?, which we had an t~l~ed about previously in developing the PUD here. I think that would be, I think a fair way for an involved ff 'something in the concept again as a for~sm' for Chanhassen. Thank you. Mayor Chmiel: Thanks. Anyone else7 Don Dehn: I was just curious. The City of Lakevtlle has a tree ordinance. Have you looked over their tree ordin~uce7 Has anyone gotten a copy of tl~? Paul Krauss: The Tree Board has locked at copies of Lakeville, Maple Grove and Eden Prairie. Mayor Cluniel: Okay, thanks Paul. Okay. If there's no one else, we'll start on my right with Richard. Do you have some... Councilman Wing: Well being on the Tree Board, you know I pulled the parking lot oMinance off the consent agenda and I asked the Council what are they passing. And this is kind of one of those cases. I think that we were forced into a position by developers to start reacting for protecting our city. The developers were coming in and mowing us down. Point blank and there was no if's and but's and we're not strick enough yet but we're getting there and we want to protect our remaining stands of trees and the neighborhood has clearly spoken of that and none of us disagree with that. And clearly this city is leading the way in tree preservation and no one is going to accuse me of not having been involved in tree preservation so then when I speak %o~tnst the neighborhood here tonight, which I'm going to do, I think I'm on pmay solid ground.because simply there's got to be some flexibility. As soon as that plat was, we have two choices. We could be black and white and . preserve the trees and isolate them. Lock them up. Put them into environmental, what do you call that thing? The conservation easement. Or buy it. Take it over for park, whatever. But the minute this plat went lttrough, or any other plat, where we allowed building into those trees, you've got to start being a little bit flexible. I was out there today walking throu~ this whole area, up and down the slreels kind of giggling because it's sort of li~, I kept thinking of a pachinko board with the ball bouncing around a tree and which way is it going to go. And it's kind of a maze and we've kind of set this area up now to see, it's a maze. Can we build or not. And it's sort of humorous you know. We've got this maze of trees and can these guys possibly sneak a house in or not. Well, the lots are there. The lots are platted. We want to save an the trees but the key woad I've heard from staff since this came out is, first of an we've got to clean this up and I think we're going to plan on doing that for future ones. On the other hand, ones just before this got away with murder so we're sort of in the middle. One group got away with murder and this group's getting stung and now we'll clean it up a little hit. But nonetheless we need to be allowed to tweak a little bit here. We want to preserve the trees. We don't want to go against that neighborhood. They're in the right but we need to be able to tweak this particni~r one so I'll support you tweaking on a lot per lot b~ts. I'm not sure how we got about this twea~ng and this flexibility but I think we have to move ahead with this plan and when we start bringing people in to aerate the ground and go to this amount of work, we've gone too far. Tbere's something wrong there so, I noticed the lots Paul I think you need some flexibility on this one. I think you need to be able to twentk on a lot to lot basis. And I don't know how to do that. Mayor Chmiel: Maybe I can look to our counseler here. I think he dmfled some of those things for us and to 32 Clt~ Counc~ M~g - Nov~mb~ ~., 1993 Cotmcilwoman~ WeHtbewayI'mseeingthisthe~arereallylhree~~ ~owdowe deal with thc Stone ~eek's and the Tmlm~' who have not done a lot of activity but are rmmin.o into ~? through this long process thi~ smnm~ and they knew Ihe tmpoi~nce of the Iree colls~vn~'m and inmerv~_ rw~ nnd yet tbey cut down trees without notifying the city nnd I have a big ~ with that. W'nmher it was don~ in that area, sun*ounding area and to tbe city dm* we wonld rove trinse uees. But I don't waut to be so rigid tn ' sayin8 that we can't be ~ on this and I guess I just, to get off thnt subject, I have a question ~ m ~y ~ PaulKmuss: Well I'd say it was a few rcasom. Ftrst of all it was a very heavlly fmmted site. Treeswem located on the surve~ but it wasn't ~ and if you have a tree flint_ 's 10 f~et ont of plac~ it doesn't sound like a lot but it probably messes up tbe ~ pad. It was tbe first time this was ever tried to this level of delail accepted it ns 150% of the line crown and never nppli~! iL None of tbe ~ems we ev~ got tbe ~ I menn she nc.p_ t, Hy had to lay out the tr~e c~own. Sh~ kind of ~ up a tme,...nnd you ltlnally couldn't wnlk on the site. I menn something clem'ly had to be don~ We're also F:mding that it's not a black and whi~ thing. 150% of the tree crown. You're going to kill it. It's got to be there, Well now we're ~mdin~ out thnt maybe approach. I guess that re~dns to be seen how well it winks nf~r the fsct but I menn cenninly we're science. I think we can do thaL Secondly, thirdly ~ what we'~e fmdins too is it's ~ ~ it's almost trees has a lime metal ta~ on it. I mean it's Sot a number and every~in.o. But given th~ amount of unde~m~h there, it's just not pmsible to snrv~ every SlUn~ inch of a tree. When yon're loddng up into a dmse ~, can you tell that there's amajordend~b? 'l'ney conldn't. 'l~y eouldn'tuntil they cleared ontth~tmsh nnd sc.~-. _nHy had crews soins out to every t~e and stnrting to a'hn them brick. Yon know I think ~ ~ the level of expertise beyond what was really possible m pull otY. Nobody ~ it ~ ~ it wns done. Coundlwonmn D~kendod: Well, you know 17 have been tnlum down nmi I'm wini~ ~o allow fur additional 33 City Council Meeting - November 22, 1993 flexibility and what needs to happen to make some of those lots buildable but I would really sincerely like to hold the developer to the contract of replacing whatever additional lrees need to be taken down on a per caliper inch. In the area. Regarding Trotters and Stone Oree. k. Again, let's try to be flexible before they go with their backhoes and I'm willing to let, to trust stuff to work with them. And let's look at the ordinance and malt,,, it more workable for everyone involved. Paul Krauss: Stone Crc~, we don't anticipate the same level of trouble with Stone Cree. k. We're coming around to full circle. Stone Creek, we did put that barrier up beyond which nothing's supposed to happen and beyond that we kind of left it up to the developer to figure out so it should work... Mayor Chmiel: Michael. Councilman Mason: I jotted a bunch of quick notes here. I think that this is maybe one of the problems of perhaps trying to be visionary and trying to be proactive. I think thc learning curve sometimes doesn't quite keep pace with what we're trying to do and I think that may have been the case with this one. Clearly I think on those specific lots we need to have some sort of flexibility. I do think, and I can think of a number of housing developments in this city that some developers do clear cut and some developers do choose the cheapest way out and do do mass grading and I think as a Council we need to be forever vigilant. Clearly there are developers in town that do not do that. But we need to have the suickest standards possible and in that strickncss I think sometimes you know as a parer or as an educator we call it tough love and I think sometimes you, things aren't black and white. And you do have to look at some things on a case by case bas/s and I certainly would not advocate micro managing every development in the city of Chanhassen. But in an instance like this where we have made a commitment to an existing neiihbcrhood and where we're flndin8 that it's impossible to build homes on a plat th_s_t the city's approved, I think we need to take a look on those individual lots. I think also, and it's already been mentioned that perhaps reforestation is an area that we need to tackle as vigorously as we do trying to protect trees. Let's face it, if you're going to build a house, a tree gets cut down in many places and reforestation may be a direction this city needs to take...and I think that perhaps lVfr. Smithburg raises a good point. I don't know if the city could afford...I know the County has one. I also know _tho_t thc County forester is extremely busy and maybe with, maybe this dty should be looking into with one or two other cities, taking a look at some son of forester position. And that miiht in fact go in linc with your environmental commission also. So yeah, I think we do, ali of the lots that have been mentioned tonight, I think we need to take a look at them very carefully. Mayor Chmiel: And I think too with the Arboretum as close as they are, I'm sure they'd be willing to assht us as well with some of these things. Mark. Councilman Senn: You know I guess, I think Mr. Smithburg is __hsd__ eally right on. I really don't want him to give up in his efforts in terms of, you know maybe our need to relax things a little bit but, and I'm not going to defend Joe lVIiller Homes at all because I think, I really agree with Colleen hero. To me the lack of communication is somewhat unconscionable in that you find out about it after the fact and stuff but I guess that's you know, in my personal...that's not a new _st~ ,!_tion for Joc Miller Homes but you know I'm smm~ly supportive of the preservation as well as the new plantings and the replacement plantin. But really our current guidelines have gone way beyond being guidelines and they're really, our guidelines have become more of an implementation plan it seems to me in my eyes. And maybe we need to focus on a slronger ~ or whatever that basically PUD's in effect always be used even as it relates to the residential developments where staff has basically more leeway in terms of basically negotiating those things out and insistence that they be complied with. But overall I think thc staff needs to be siren more latitude to implement and monitor the 34 City Council Mee~g - November 22, 1993 running out to monitor and check each tree but at the same lime if Ibey have mm~ infitnde up front in ml~ionship to the development, in Umns of ne~o~,,~._~ out and detn'mintn_o what exactly is going to ~ then it seems to me thnt the~'s more ~ and also mm~ follow thru just tn Imms of maidng snre that it h_ .m~pens. At the same I guess I'd liim to see thnt snme latitude, c~ that additimml latitude ninny given to staff my feelings. MayorChmiel: Okay. Ith~ntwhat'salreadybeensakl, there's no sense in me sn~tg too much more. Otim' than the fact that I think the~ has to be a cerlnin nmount of fl~s~ty with thiL And I would liim to see mnff your neighborhood, two t_hin_m~ I wnted to mnt~_ sure w~ did in this ItOCm. Number one, buff~ your ngighbethoc~ And secondly, prot~t t~___ rand ~ tn~ nd I t~nt ttmt ~ not lettn' ~ I sm of fw.1, got the r~dity of the plat we lmve to deal with nnd we did plat tho~ lots nnd ~y'm ~ ~ So now I'm give, to Roller, how do we best ItiV~ Paul tlmt npproval to be flem, ble? What's the simplest way m give Council approval to move ahead on thi~ and fix it? Mayor Chmiel: What the clarific~ion is I t~ink you've Roger Knutson: If Paul's ~ with it, a motion conld be m__~e__ to nnthor]ze I~ ~ ~ to iP'ant minor deviatiom from the 1~ plans f~r thc Idntt Mayor C'luniel: Paul, would you? Mayor Chmiel: But I would think wc should probably set some total caliper inch ns to what it is. I mean you may lmvc some thnt arc just a humongous tree andit ires to be rmnoved. You're not gulns to be able to plant another tree like it. Paul Knmss: Oh no, but when you do the caliper htch, if you cut down a 12 inch tree and put tn.= Councilm~ Senn: And not necessnrlly on the ,nme lot. Imean_%onlnlednkthnt'spartofwhn~theleeway 35 City Council Meeting - November 22, 1993 has to come that there may be beuer places to place those. Councilman Wing: What about this 46 inch ave? Civil War oak uv.e. How many of t~m am we going to put in7 46 caliper inches for tha~ one7 Paul Krauss: Conceivably. Councilman Wing: You know I would rather, if I had to do it over again, this is one of those that we say, let's put on all the lots are not wooded, they have 3 new trees put in and then these few we lose along the way here, we reforest because like Erhart says, fltis is a renewable resource. This isn't the end of the world. We just want to n~ko. sure we're renewing and protr, cting. Not. it gets absurd here. Mayor Chmiel: Right, exactly. Councilman Mason: Well what does Eden Prairie do? I mean they have some sort of, what's their formula for rephcing trees7 Paul Krauss: I don't know exactly but... Councilman Senn: They started with absolute replacement. I mean more or less anything you look down, you're required to replace by caliper inch. Plus then they had a standard. So I mean you had to do that to measure up to a standard. 5o I mean it wasn't a, I want to say it wasn't an unlimited. That just went on and on and on. It made you conform to a max or to a standazd. Paul Krauss: On these two projects you've already allowed them to cut a number of trees. Councilwoman Dockendorf: Right, and we're not rolL-ins about those. Paul Krauss: The slate's clean on that. I guess we're just talking about if additional trees have to be removed... should they be replaced per caliper inch... Councilwoman Docke~: And I believe so and they can even put them on any lot you want to. It doesn't have to be on that specific lot where the original tree was taken. But the developer has to take some responsibility for what they agreed to as well. Mayor Chmiel: Okay with that, I don't even know if we need a motion on that do we Roger7 Roger Knutson: I think it'd be a good idea to have a motion. Councilwoman Dockendorf: We do? Roger Knutson: Yeah, because you're authorizing flexibility to sa ~ document which you approved so I think the record should be clear that you au~ a ~n from that document. Councilwoman Dockendorf: Well I would move tint we would give the Planning Director some latitude in dealing with the platting. Or not with the platting but with the conditions of building for Lake S-~rl Hilll 9th Addition, Trotters Ridge and if necessary, Stone Creek, to deviate from the ariginal agreement. And also would 36 City Council Meeting - November 9~_, 1993 move that we enforce the replacemem on a per caliper inch tmsis for trees that, additional trees _,hn~,_ have to be taken. Councallnmn Masom Now thnt's jnst for these 3 develogmen~ dghO Councilwomnn Dockendorf: We'H rise the woodland mnnngemem. Paul was having. It would be caught ~ ~ ~ DonDe2m: I agree with the flexibiaty and l guess ~ at s~me of thc mplncements. Wealsohnveannmber of trees in the devest tl~ we've been nnowed to cut down thnt We hnvea't laken down and if we could get tnken down, get some credit for versus the ones thn* we may need to rake down. CmmcilmnnMason: On the mn'fnce l don't have nny trouble w~ that. l~~~~~~ On the other hand, then they get adebit for the 17 trees dmt were cnt down tbs* yon wmm't SUlalmse to. Imenn. DonDehn: It'sagivenndtnkcnndtherc'san_-mheroftreesouttherethntwecouldhave~nndcnt. We imven't because we don't know what type of homes nre going to be on the lot and we thonght we'd give ~t the Mayc~ Chmiel: Paul, do you see ~ny givea problem? PaulKrauss: I don't know. That's your call. IIp~ssthcre'ssomeairoflegi~toit. Iknow~ Ridge has done the same thing. They've saved trees beyo~ which we asked them to. Mayor Chmiel: 'I'nat's my concern. Councilman ~: Paul ought to be givm that laflmdc to go do ic We know he' s going to do it. Ithhkym should have that latitude. Go work it out. You know what the intentions of it nrc and Panl, you'r~ the absol~ anthority. You know you'rc the word on it. ~fth~~~withyott,~himlol~bcxlnc~ You can 8o back to the CmmciL I don't think he's soins to want to do that _n~iq. Jim Ostcnson: My name's Jim Ostenson with Tandem Propmies. We're the developer of Trottws Ridge. Earlier wc wcre talking about micro mnnn_oing a subdivision and we, as a ~, are v~y smslflve towards 37 City Council Meeting - November 22, t993 and the home values. The absorption of the lots and everything else is all created by our ability to preserve trees. We have less, and I've been developing land for about 17 years, and in thc last ~ years there's been a huge strides that have been made in tgeserving trees and I think in the past, you know planning depamnents, engineering departments, city coun~ ~ weU es deve o ~ ~u ~ negligent in some ~,n, that have been developed and carried out in the loss of trees. Even with the tree inventory, which we all...and very expensive on the front end, but is a I~eat planning tool for everyone in developing a neighborhood. In desisting streets. Determining where cul-de-sacs shoul~l go. Widths of right-of-way and everything eJse* We come in and negotiate with thc engineering deparmlent as much as anyone as to, we want to save frees. Can we go with a narrower right-of-way in (~ler to do it. The point is is that there's a lot of give and take in all of this if we're going to be able to save trees. For instance out at Trotters Ridge...vihmtory plow which was something that was never required on our part but we feel wc have a better chance of saving trees and we even indicated.., net ~in over what our earlier predictions were. There's an instance across the street where the watmmain is Being in along Galpin where there arc, I'll say 30 to $0 trees that are going to be destroyed by that watemudn and we're working with _that_ homeowner, or lXOperty owner to move those trees on over to our side. We'll buy them from him and move them ourselves and bring them over there so, they're specimen trees that will be' able to be saved. The probleai we're going to have is that if, you know we do need flexibility on this. I've worked with potential lot purchasers that are fi'ustmted with dicir desire to build an architecturally dests~l home and then they can't make it fit in any of our lots. It's very frustrating. And if we Bet into a si_u~_tlon where we're counting every caliper inch and we get into, you know we've lost one here but we gained one here. That type of thing. It's going to be an administrative nightmare and I would hope that we can work with the staff and use the flexibility off of the forest management, woodland management plan that we've put together as well as the forester that we've retained. The foreste~ that the city. The intern fo~ster that you'll bo using you know to sit down and with a template on each lot and wm'k these things out rather than getting into 2 inches here and 4 inches there,. Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, I think that's some of thc concerns by Council but I think the other pca~ons are c~cea'm over thc caliper of thc trees that are existing. And prior to you probably coming into .this community we've had some developers that just come in and sort of clear cut and those are the precautions that we're now prevent that ~m Jim Ostenson: I am very much aware that every ordinance is as a result of some abuse some time, Whether it's street sections or whatever. And my only point is that, you know maybe rather than catipe~' ~ caliper inch, if wc could sit down and work out some kind of a ratio or...because we do want to do things that are positive that we are, right now we aren't being given credit for. But ff we're going to be popsdiTod, then we should also be Councilman Mason: I think I'm hearing Coundl say that you'll have that flexibility. Mayor Chmiel: I see that that's whe~ it's Siting to go, yeah. We have a motion on the floor. Councilman Wing: And I'll second it for discussion. lVlayor Chrniel: Okay. ~ is discussion at this time.. Councilman Wing: Flcxibtltty but We're also talking Ncr callpcr inch. So if you cut down a 46 inch tree, they've got to come up with 15-16 trees to put back in. Councilman Mason: Well this is, no this is over and above. Trees that get cut down that are over and above 38 City Council Meeting - Novemb~ 22, 1993 wlmt has already been approved is whst w~'r~ di~ ~ I don't hav~ any troubl~ wilh tt~ co~ce~ of credit f~r trees saved. I was, my comme-~ earlier was with the, in the _~m~ ~ there's been smn~ rough shod pracfic~, Councilwomm~ Dockeadoff: Andla~e. I~hinkyou~thatoneout~lt~zehav~beeasm~e abuses there and I'm not looking for punishmmt. I'm lookin8 for you know. May~- Chmiel: And I ~ink that judgment would b~ do~ accordingly. Councilwonum~: Righ~ Andiftlme'Salxoblzm, lxing tt back to CounciL May~Chmiel: Okay. Welmveamotioaoat~fioorwithasecoaL Any other discussioa? Councilwoman Dockendo~ moved, Counc~man Wing ~ to give the Phnnlng DJrectm* lstftude in dealing with the conditions of building foF Lake Susan 14flk 9th Addition, ~ Ridge and if necemary, Stone Cruk, to deviate from the original agmment. Sho to ~ the rephmnnt on a ~ mltper Inch basis for additional trees tlmt have to be token. Al! voted h favor ~nd the motion ~ SET ADDmONAL WORK ~ESSIONS FOR 1994 BUDGET, NOVEMBER 2p AND/QR NOVEMBER 30, ~TY MANAGER. DonAshworth: Iwm~t~lwitho~rlm~w~ks~lmaslllak~to~lr~lxmibilityf~'tim. I don't think that I wss able to I~t a cle~ ~ from Cily Council ss to what ~ ~ ~ What~ want me to ~o back sad agt~mlly n~otial~ i~ ~ ou~ of It~ curnmt b~l~t. And %oain tho~ se~dlms ran into Vision 2002 and %o~in I do not believe _thru w~ have ~ a clear opportunity for Council I~ discuss ~ ,nd fcmh your priorities as far as the 9 items that we~ lis~! as well ss the~ was som~ ~ m individual imm indivirb_~ items ~ We havo two work sessions se2. One for N~ 2~h. One f~r November 30th. I'm would be T:00. It's an hour and a haff them. I'malsosnlt~flm~ooNovember29ththm_s~mopsrtofthat meeting might also be av~il~bl_~ I~ discuss budget Iriotitim and ,?in thm'S the ooe set out with the luml_~s. hotlr Iffld a h,lf tO talk about budget. 39 City Council Meeting - November 22, 1993 Councilman Senn: Don, a question for you on the 29th. How critical is it that we address the hauler issue before January lst? Or I mean let's call it, how critical is it to address that issue next week? Don Ashworth: Paul would have to respond. Councilman Senn: I mean to mc thc city budget's pretty critical and maybe tl~'s where wc ought to. Paul Krauss: If I can get home to watch Northern Exposure, I'm all for it. Councilman Senn: You miss~ it. Paul IQauss: I don't know that there's a critical time line. I guess the only thing I'm concerned of is it genmmted so much public comment that if it kind of fades away for a month. Tbere's nothing that says it has to be done fight now. Don Ashwonh: Well if you wanted to switch things mound, I think ~ber 6tit December 6th we might have another 2002 meeting but at least on December 6th you could start out with tho haulem. In other words, kind of switch the two dates. DO the 29th with the budget and December 6th with the haulers. Mayor Chmiel: ]2kw, ember 6th, 2002? Councilman Senn: I don't have anything scheduled for that I thought we weren't going to do anything ~x, cmber 6th because 23 of us are gone. Don Ashworth: I thought most would be back. Councilwoman Dockondorf: I'll be back. Don Ashworth: I think we're flying back in that afternoon but. Councilman Senn: I thought we avoided that. Don Ashwonh: The only meeting we have set in December is the 13th, which is our reg,,l~r Council. Mayor Chmiel: Well my suggestion is, let's get to it and get them out of the way and i~ November ~29th and 30th olmn for everybody? Councilman Wing: I'll miss the 30th but that's one. Councilman Senn: And I may miss thc 30th. Councilman Wing: I'll be there the 29th for su~. We only nend 3 out of ~ to vot~ or make decisions anyway don't you? Mayor Chmiel: Yep. DOn Ashworth: DO you think Paul that we're going to end up with time on the 29th? How is this sm~ctured? City Council Meetin8 - Nove, mb~r 22, 19913 PaulKmass: Well, what I'm asking thc Council to do is focus in on thc issues. You'vebeentgac~ina reactive posture with a lot of people _coming in and raising isslles...~ Recy~_lin~ Commissj.on gave yoH a bttnch of issues that they were concerned about. I think it's impo-rant f~ the Council to figure out what.., tvpott to Councilman Senn: Wasn't this a work session, not a. Councilman Senn: Yeah, but I mcan we don't necessarily take additionaL May~' Chmie, l: We don't have to mi~ commenls. ~ can sit and_ listen as well Paul~ We, H, wehadone. Theyhav~alwoblemwithm~~. Councilman Senn: Not if they don't discuss Inictng. be he~ sEnln tommmw. They may call hack. MaycrChmiel: Well let's get batt to tho dsm. L~t's set them ami see what ~ Cimncilman ~mg: The :Lglh's the budset. Don Ashworth: No, 291h's the trash. Councilman Wing: Really? Councilman Senn: And if that goes all ev~, then the 30th. 41 City Council Meeting - November 22, 1993 Mayor Chmiel: We'll have a cut off on this by 9:00. Councilman Wing: No budget on the 29th7 Don Ashworth: Hopefully we'll be able to. Councilman Mason: Hopefully. I bet we can come up with something. Councilman Wing: ff I've got to miss a meeting, I'd rather miss that. Mayor Chmiel: And the budget si 5:30? Don Ashworth: On the 30th? Mayor Chmiel: Yeah. Don Ashworth: Yeah. Councilman Mason: Can I just have a clarification on a couple of meetings. I've got budget down on December 2nd and December 8th. I personally think someone came in here and did this on my calendar... DOn Ashworth: The only convened meeting is I believe the 13th. Councilman Wing: So the 6th is also a date to keep out? DOn Ashworth: No. Mayor Chmiel: Okay, everybody have it down. Councilman Mason: I've got one more quick comment about the budget process. I think as, and I believe, maybe I dreamed this or maybe I saw it in a memo, I don't know. But DOn, you talked about something about we, I believe that we I~ve you direction to lop off ~00,000.00. No lax increase. You know hopefully tax decrease but certainly no tax increase. And then I know there was some concern about that coming back and then we get to tear it atmrt one more time. Mayor Chmiel: Except for those people who have had m-evaluatiom on their lXoperty. By the County. Councilman Mason: Right. I mean in terms of Council going through with the pen again. That did strike a cord with me being a negotiator for teachers conlracts. I am personally comfortable if you come back. Don Ashworth: But then I think it's important that we make sum that tho Council has had a real oppetlunity to express their concerns. To express what they would like to see cut. What they eadorse and then a.tim' we've done that, then I totally agree with you... Councilman Mason: Okay, fine. Good enough. Mayor Chmiel: Okay, let's move on to ite~n D. 42 City Conncil Meeting - November 22, 1993 ToddGedmrdl: You can set one more meeting date for ltmt Vision ~. This is the volunteer group thnt wanted to re-evaluate the results of the second meetinlb.the 6th was a possibility for that. But ff doem't mxk with Council Fred's looking fc~ a dam... Don Ashworlh: won, I think wo coHkl do that off tho 6th. Vis,RI 2002. May~r Chmiel: Does everybody have the 6th open? · Connciitnnn W'ms: ...what night is thaff Councilmnn W'mg: I've Sot to piny ftrnnnn on other, odd Mond~ so Fm not go~ m be thnv,. Maycn' Chmiel: Do we want to do it on Decembez 7th and ,ink it an? Councilmnn W'mg: I'll be there. Maya' Chmiel: What time? 5:307 6:007 Don Ashworth: I think you've been doing those at 7.'00 haven't you? Todd Geflmrdl: Down~ May~' Chmiel: Yeah, no. Ad hoc. Okay, sounds good. UPDATE QN HIGHWAY 101 Ti~,n. FRO~, PARK AND ~RA, TION Todd Hoffman: ..amd I gness I'll rcact to questions frmn specific Council members. Oettin~ back to Evan Orecn at ~..is not going to be up~ in the recent futura. *I'ne _~liEht ~ as to the highway turn must be a minimum of ~3 ~ back at the tllll~ to avoid colltact Jilter. Th~ ~ d~tgn as ([c~ in lt~ feasibility study is 20 f~t from the shoulder to the trail so yon.~ 32 ~ Only about 33% of tim trail meets tim, requiremmit so thc outlook fro' saving a trail would 8o in prior lo upgradin~...So othcr ttum the last meetins which wns l~ld wns Angust ~ 'l'ne lnst com~l~ondmce o~ m the netshl~m=~3d ~ ~ m Sepmn~... City Council lVleeting - November 22, 1993 Mayor Chrniel: Okay. Any questions? Councilman Senn: Didn't the engine, er from Carver County at the meeting say if it was turned back or if some sort of turn back were accomplished unctcr the turn bac2 ftmds or whatever, Is that Carver County wouldn't look at upgrading to a 4 lane? Todd Hoffman: I don't rccall upgrading to a 4 lane. That conversation specifically. This 33 feet was... · Councilman Senn: But that's the State. I mcan I would just assume that's a State requirement. Don Ashw/r/h: Well I heard Roger Oustafson state that it should come undm' the jurisdiction of Carver County. In fact hc oven a willingness to head up kind of thc project but since that point in time I've gotten thc impression _that_ Roger's devotion to the project has waned a little bit, to say the least. He hasn't, he was going to coordinate literally the next meeting and that hasn't occurred. Councilman Senn: Well if Roger...TH 101 too from Way-,m__~ to Shakopee basically you know and he said unless it's going to incorporate all that, he didn't have a desire from Carver County's perspective to spearhead it. I remember very specifi~ly and I think that's part of the problem. You're never 8oing to, you're not Being to get a study 8oin8 on that segment. Mayor Chmiel: That's probably very true. Maybe some m~e discussion should, we should pursue.. Don Ashwonh: Well I'd like to sec another one of these meetings occur and Evan should put into writing. They promised to make an analysis of thc BRW trail and thc effects of that. That should be put into writing. It should be presented back to us. We should do another one of those meetings. I will call Evan and I witt call Roger. Todd Hoffrnan: From another perspective, just hriefly...to consUuct a Irail system were f~ $800,000.00 total. Which it failed. This is one trail segment of a mile and 3/4 for over half of that. Mayor Chmiel: Okay. We'll move on back to Consent Aienda. CONSENT AGENDA: B. APPROVE RESOLUTION SUPPORTING THE COOPERATIVE AGENCY REO~ FOR THE INSTALLATION OF A TRAFFI(~ (~ONTROL ~IGNAL AT THE: INTERSECTIQN 0F TH ~ AND CSAH 19 (GALPIN BOyLEVARD). Mayor Chmicl: County State 19. That's the existing one we have on Great Plains and 78th Street that will be moved once tho new one. Councilman Senn: Yeah, I Iried to catch Charles today and couldn't catch him. I don't know Don if you know the answer or not. What is, ff we understand this is basically a resolution supporting the cooperative aiency City Council Meeting - Nov~nber 22, 1993 asenda for December 13th. lnchuled in that document is the signal nt Oalpin and so it's lm~posed to be a joint cost slmred between the cities...Cnrver County. AndI'mgue~n~.ifyouwsnu~justagenn~bnnpm~ I'dmy $120~X}0.00. But you know. Don~: No, no. T'nnt's~ Cotm_eilm__nrl Senn: That's th~ total ~?mliT. nti_rwl yOtl Ill. in? Don Ashworth: Wen except ~ttu~ is one ofthein~ ndmndways whichis govemedby this master city/county road ngreen~t f~ $165 minion. Mayer Chmiel: Fv~be~nwalchinglh~Countyagendas~~~~~~~m County State Aid where they're abutting onto highway right-of-way with MnDm. It do~sn. 't say nnything about Cotmdlmnn Senn: Yeah, when you ls'esenled that plan before us, *tint's what it showed. I ~ it ~ ll~ County/City basically mt'ins care of thc roadway but thc int~seclion imllx)vem~ was under ihe Slate. No. InfnctI'vegotthengreementupmtrsnnditlsll~Rzed. 'l'ne slgnnltstt~miz~ln ~ Yuah. City Council Meeting - November 22, 1993 Councilwoman Dockendorf: Well in any case, we're not approving dollars tonight right7 Don Ashworth: Right. Mayor Chmiel: No. Okay. Mark, do you want to move it7 Resolution #93-11~1; Coullcilmall Send moved, Councflwonum Dockendorf seconded to approve the Resolution Supporting the Cooperative Agency Request for the lnstalhtion cd' a Trufflc Control Slamd at ~e Intersection of TH S and CSAH 19 (Galph Boulevard), All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. E. APPROVAL OF AccOUNTS. Councilman Senn: Don, on page 6 to SUgar-Roscoe. There's a question there. I don't know ff you want to deal with that now or if you want to just pull it off. And on page $, there was one to ~ for the entertainment complex which I thought was dead months ago so I Ired a question on that. Don Ashworth: Okay. I can tell you what ~n is. ~ never billed all the way through the various study things. The alternatives that continued to be looked at as it dealt with the community centea' behind thc, in thc Bloonlberg property. And they attended a number of those meetings but they were all just kind of miscellaneous and they had asked, you know can we just kind of keep a running tab on this whole thing and when we get, either this thing is going to go and it will just be part of the overall cost or can we be paid if it's decided that it's not going to go. And that's what this billing is. $o this was the one and only payment to Mortenson versus HGA received almost monthly, or invoiced us almost monthly. But then again their costs were significantly more. Mayor Chmiel: Okay, and thc other was Strgar-Roscoe. Councilman Senn: Yeah, what are we doing...hotcl expansion. Don Ashworth: I thought I'd just ge, t, do a ~port back on this one. I'm not sure on that one,. Tho Motlenson one I do know about. Councilman Senn: And a lot of things on page 2 there's, what's the cold storage. Are we building a cold storage buildins~ Don Ashworth: I beihve that they're.pouting a concrete floor in the cold storage building out at the public works garage. That's existed for tl~ last 2-3 years ns a gravel floor and they've been wanting to got that so it's something that's a little easier to maintain it. Councilman Senn: So that's the existin~ ~rase out there? Don Ashworth: Yes. Councilman Mason: That's it then. City Conncil Meeting - November 22, 1993 May~r Chmiel: Do you want to move _t~_t_ with removal of Coun~ Seun: Ye~. Councilman Senn moved, Counc~,uman Dm~ndorf smmded U~ appFove the Ammms Plyable with the exception of check ~S3336 m Strgar-Rosco~Fauseh. All vuted in faVOF nd the mollm carried unanhnously. F, ,APPROVAL QF Counctlmnn Mnson: Renlqnickly. Lust meeting's Minnt~. Onpagel6nnfl 17, when we sot in~ the disaLssion nbout the moratorium nnd the east end of I-Hshwny 5. Wen it nll starts on 16 nbout the Ix)mm of the nmybe I, whoever didn't care nbout the east end of l-r~jhw~ 5 and them Marlo you male the cemnent, rn let the l~mutes and the voting t~ord ~ ~ I pnged through some of those ~ n~ I qu~ lmnestly Councilman W'mg: Itwasnn a4to I voteMike soit must reflected oa therest ofus, Councilmsn~ Well that's fine Dicl= Ijust, I do save my l~Ttnn~ oddly mough. Idon'trendlhemevety night but I do go tlnmgh them andl could find notlting thnt said I didn't care about the east end of I-rtghwny $ so I guess if you could find s~meth~ng, I'd h~-~ to see it. Councilman Senn: Well, I'H hav~ to look then. Councilman Mascm: Yeah. ImeanI'd~th~ Mayor Chmiel: Aifight, do you want. Were you sotna to say smnething Richard? what we've Ip~ined from TIF smd I don't want to sit here and _ua_~ nnymore of that er I wnnt to stop it right now hnvewon~rlostwithT~, lamreaHy~withTIFandlamgoingtodefmdTIF. If there's nn issue here, then let's get it out into the open but let's not just ~ making digs. I'm not ~ to buy tl~%onin. Mayir Chnflei: And I'm going to support that position as wuU. Senn: I'd be ~ to {}et into a full di~ d it. City Council Meeting - November ~, 19~3 CouncRman Senn: Dick I've asked a number of times in the past to put it on the agenda. I will ask again. Councilman Wing: You don't have to ~k You just have to put it on. Colle, ea had/ambling on toni/hr. She didn't have to beg or ~ Councilman Mason: I need to move approval of the Council Minutes. item l(f). Mayor Chrniel: With some cladfic~cms along with that. Okay. Councilman Mason moved, Mayor Chmlel seconded to approve the Minutes o~ the following meetings: City Council Minutes dated November 8, 1993 Planning Commission Minutes dated November 3, 1993 Park and Recreation Commission Minutes dated October 26, 1993 Public Safety Commission Minutes dated November 16, 1993 All voted in favor and the motion carried. Jo RESOLUTION DECLARING THE QFFICIAL INTENT OF THE ~ QF (~HANHASSEN TO REIMBURS.E CERTAIN EXPENDITURF, S FROM THE PROCEED~ OF BONDS ISSI,IED BY THE Councilman Senn: If I understand this corr~tly now, this action is to authorize reimbursement of certain expenditures as related to all the bond issues. Not the one for, only for the one for $5.630 which was attached to as Exhibit A back on October 25th? Don Ashw~: Correct. Councilman Senn: Item 2(0. Thc only one attached at that point7 Don Ashworth: Correct. Councilman Senn: Okay. And that's when I raised the issue over did it entail the others. There wasn't an answer then on the October., you know the followin/meeting and stuff so...it is ali the bond issues7 Don Ashworth: 1993A was done in January so that is not included. There was a separate resolution at that time. Councilman Senn: Okay, but all other three. Don Ashworth: All B, C, D and E, even though Mr. Kennedy feels that E is a refunding so ~ probably not required to put that resolution on that one,. To be wnsa'vafivc he's sugge~ing flint they be against all of them. B,C, DandE. Correct. Councilman Senn: Okay, so all four then. Don Ashworth: All four. 48 City Council Meeting - November ZZ, 1~93 lVlay~ Chmicl: Okay. Do you want to move that? Councilman Senn: No I don't. Councilman W'mg: Second. Procee(h or Bonds issued by the City. An voted in hvor, except Counchmn Senn who opp(md, and the motion carried with a vote of 4 to L Councilwop~sm Dockcndoff: I move adjoummcs~. Councilm~ Mason: Second. DonAshworth: MayIaskforaclafificafim~ Yom" intent Ma~ was to csmum that yom' votc was shown as being s?in~t that particnl~ item, at least as it dealt with the one bcmd issue. I mmm I wrote the ~inll up know q~te how to do that. I should have 5otten suidance ~ ~. Councilwoman Dockendorf moved, ~ Mamn m~mded to MJourn tl~ ~ An voted in ravoF and the motion cnFfle~ The meettn8 was adJounmd at 10:S0 p~n. Submitted by Don Ashwonh City Manascr 49