1993 10 25CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL
REGULAR Mm3rrlNG
OCTOBER Lq, 1993
~iiOYAL OF ~,GENDA; Comcilman W'm~ ~ Comn-l~oan Do~s~h'f s~ond~ to alpo~ th~
agenda amended to add item ll(b) Dm Ash~HRA. AIl votedin fnvor~~ ~ ~
BinHickey: My mme is Bin Hickey. lrcsideat6301Hlm~Avea~intheMim2wadm~
neigh~ Iwillt~brk~mmycommmtsressniwhat~beeaoldbusinmzf~thizCom~ lam
Statute469.176, Subd4GandI'lljustbeveryts~. Flljmtquotcittwiefly. 'llmtStmn~mys~nnxevmues
arrived from tax inc:~tat fr~ any district shall be used f~ the ncquMlim~ conslmclim, zenmmfimx, opemtim
'FmFs all I have. '1'hank ~ou.
valid t~; of tax inc:tmtnt dolim. I caa put a cow ~f ttut ophim in yom' n~t ~ u w~U u nndi~ on~
to this individual and if he would disagr~ lmtmflially ~ ~ ~ ~ u n~ ~ ~ I ~
T nkyo rdnpp ,h, .
City Council ~g - October ~, 1993
Councilman Wing: Mr. Mayor and fellow members of Council. I'd like to Just take a moment to clarify a
comment I made during the Colonial Grove beachlot discussions of this past summer. During theae discussions I
suggested that one of the affidavits probably would not hold up in court and I believe I used the word, or words,
duress and/or pressure in describing thc signing of this affidavit. Since then Mr. Whitchill and this mystery
affidavit in question, hc has asked that I clarify thc record acccadingly. My use of the word duress or p'e, ssurc
did not refer, nor was it intended to refer to the way in which the affidavit was exmu:ted but rather the affidavit
sisncr felt under person~d lXeSSU~ or duress to sign it more as a ~cnd, a neishber, or to be helpful to the
nciBhlx~ood. I have been corrected by the Colonic! Orove resident who Ires asked that I correct the t*oco~ and
use of any specific word or wmxls in any way offended Mr. Whitehill, I would take this time to apolo8~.
Thank you.
Mayor Chmiel: Thank you Richard. We'll move along with the Consent Agenda.
CONSENT A(~ENDA: Coun~ilman Mason moved, Coond~an Senn seconded to approve the folknd~
consent agenda items pursuant to the City Manager's recommendations:
Resolution ~f93-103: Approve Traffic Signal Maintenance Agreement with MnDot (West 78th Street at
County Road 17), File No. 92-3-3.
e. Approve Liquor License Transfer, C~mhassen Dinner Theaters
g. Approval of Accounts
he
City Council Minutes dated October 11, 1993
Planning Commission Minutes dated October 6, 1993
Public Safety Commission Minute~ dated October 14, 1993
J. Resolution ~V93-104: Resolution Opposing Unfunded Mandates by State and Fcdmfl Oovemmmts.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
Mayor Chmici: So we don't go into a ~ dissertation othe~ than havin8 item (n), I would like to move thc
_l~__l_n_rtce of that Consent Agenda, unless there's someone here present that would like to discuss any of those
items that were pulled presendy, We will move those to item number lO(a).
Councilman W'mg: Mr. Mayor I would approve that with one exception. Item (i), just for clarification because I
believe there's someone here that would like to leave.
Mayor Chmicl: Okay. I would accept that, Is thc~ a second?
Councilman Mason: Second.
Councilman Win~ moved, Councilnmn Mmmi seconded to defer dlsmsslon on Con,it ~ Item~ c, f,
! and m until item 10(a) on the qenda. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanlmon,iy.
L. BYLAW AMENDMENT~ ,CHAN~ VOL~ FIRE DEPARTMENT. MODIFICATION
OF ia~.Lt~.F BENEFTFS.
Cou~__'hn~ Wing: On it~m O), I just wam~ to runov~ myself from the vote. It'saconsmtqendaitnn. I
have a conflict of intu~ and it would be ~ to vot~ on that
MayorChmiel: Verygood. I'llmov~ilmi(i).
Mayor Clnnlel moved, Couneflwmnan Dockend~r seconded to approve tine Bylaw Amendment.
Chanhms~n Volunteer Fire Deportment, Modlflmtiem or Rebr BendJU. Ail voted in hvur, except
Counciblmn Wtn~ who almalned, and the motkm cnrrtaL
N. ACCEFF DONATION FROM THE (~HA~ AMI~ICr, AN LEGION f~l.,V~IB l~R THE
~U0R CEh'r~
Mayor Chmiel: I'd li~ to nm~ a motion to, is Ozz~ here7
May~rChmiel: Thnt'swhyI~n. Being thnr he's not here, ilnnnisaceeptadonalionfromthe
Cl~-~uen Amerkan Legion Clnb for the C~anhssen Sminr Cenmr. Whnt I want~ to do wns ~ to him
Councilman Mason moved, Councilman Senn sec(mdaJ to accept tb donation frem the Cbanhamen
American Legion Chb for the Senior Center. An voted tn hvor and the motion cmi~ unnimom~.
VISITOR PRESENTATIQNS;
CindyRous~: l'mCindy~ Itiv~nt 1690Koehnm~ I'mkindof. nervous~I~I~'t
do ~tright thelast time I wns here, I wns her~ last month on Sqmnber 13th regarding the ~ ofmmnent
m~ lhe lot we own next to our house, ~nen~weasementwns~inpince, AtS:30thatdnyinaln~I
learned thc stnff hM recommend~l the ensemem vncatlon be~ ccmtingcm upon my husbm~ Dav~ and I
Rosdg~mS~ Iplmnedmyhusbnndm~~~~~~~~~ H~
mid well I Buess wc have to aqp~c because we nccd to ~ct th~ mscm~nt off in re'der m ~d_~ I didn't feel this
wasriBht. IphonedhimasIdnasIwasleavin~to~ototbcmc~ Hcmidweimv~toalpc~ Ifeltwelu~
livinsin. First what I'd like m know is if, aslVla~Scsmmid, fltcre'salOfoot~miallroadL Why
City Council Me.lng - October 2~, 1993
this was not dealt with when approval was given for this fond which serves no one in Chanimssen, why did this
become our problem? Secondly, why were we not informed when it was decided to change this from a simple
vacation of easement to a matter of nx~ffying a different situation? The agenda and notice of public hearing
printed in the Villager listed it ns only an easement of vacation. I realize city employees are btmy but we
thought this was only a vacation of an easement since the new easement was already in place. I feel we should
have been informed when this chan~ed to a matter of rectifying past mistakes. After thinking about it I feel we
were pmposely not told ahead of time knowing we would have little time to rc~xmd and feel more pressure to
agree and perhaps not realize what was happening. I've been bothered about this since it ~ because I
don't think we were treated fairly. I feel I was set up by the people who I thought were working with nmi for
US.
Dave Rouse: My name's Dave Rouse. I just want to add that ff the situation had been lXesen~ to us, I don't
think it would have been a problem to agree to the easement. I can un&wmnd the reasons for it. My nmiu
concern is that ff this is a standard procedure of operating, using leverage without first discussion, that I think
that it's a poor example ethically and could leave this open to lawsuits and other types of things through the
actions of our city employees. And similar to LSGI or something like that in Efimmapolis. I'm wondering what
kind of ethical standards that we hold and ff there is uaining for our city employees or nmnagement. And ff
there isn't I feel maybe we should send the person running the city, the City Manager or whoever is in positions
of decisions and policy in the city government to school to learn to practice proper ethics in all matters related to
the city. And I'm wondering ff there's a way of finding out what ethical practices and standards we have. And
May~ Chmiel: Thank you Dave. Anything you want to address on that now?
Don Ashworth: Well, I find it quite absurd to consider that in finding an e~ror is, and reporting that to the City
Council cnn in some way be relat~ to an ethical standard that staff has somehow ptuposely atlmnpted to not
inform them that we didn't catch that eh'Or. I just, I don't buy it
Dave Rouse: It's more a matter of error. A mistake was made that this is the only leverage that we have to get
this situation correct. No one said, is it alrlght if we do this? It's not a matter of error.
Don Ashworth: Paul, did you?
Paul Krauss: Well I guess ff we were to respond to it, I'd like to re. fresh my mem~ ns to exactly what
pm'sued. As I recall it was just thaL We were asked to vacate a right.of-way. Typicallywh~ that happens we
see ff there's any replacement right-d-way we need. It was cau/ht, ns I retS/, my staff person caught it at the
meeting when the City Council was hearing it and we made the correction on the spot When yon're processing
400 to 500 new btfilding lots per year nmi several hundred thotmmd square feet of ~ per
year, it's not uncommon to realize that you overlook something or that something has changed and you ought to
cotre, ct it. There certainly was no conspiracy involved. If anythinE, I think my mff was being ethical in tn'ms
of r~xesenting the iasue acctwa~ly. But ff there's a further response, we'd be ~ to ~ one.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, thank you.
Councilman Senn: Don, if I could. Just a question for Paul. I thought it was a swap, if I'm remembering the
situation right I thought there was an easement area here which was being vacated and it was just swapped and
exchanged for, you were asking in effect for an exchange on the other side of the property I thought.
4
Panl Kraus~ Agnin, I ~ t~ comment, ~k was not m tuue thnt mad~ a nmjor impn~ on my memx~ to be
honest Bef~.c I give the specifi~ Fd ltl~ to lmve the oplx~tuntty to ngresh my ~~ on it but Yenh.
er just as a simple vanltim er not.
DaveRouse: AcMn_ llywimtitwnsisthe~line~nnditwmt:ight~~~ We
needed m ~ ~ ~ To vacate this one we had to add 5 feet of ensement to the opposite side of the
MayorChmir. l: Yeah. Weundm'smnd.
thnt was the~ given to us is that's thc leven_ ? we need to set you to ngree.
DaveRouse: Agnln, it wasn't the nct that we hnd to do it. Xtwas, our objeokm to it was, thc eppearances of
howitwnsprcsent~L And the fact thnt it wns canght at the mcetins. Youknow, lq)olosiz~f~rnccusin~
Councilman Sean: My memory nmy be tmd but l don't know. I know the Rouse' s so l kind of rmnember the
item and I even recollect the stuff n~x~t ~ ~ ~ ~ lot for the exchan~ on ti~ ensemmt a~ stnff
but I don't think nnybody on e/ther ~ was doin~ mything ~ o~ way or I~ ot~. I think ~ wns
exchnngewnsandbowth~citynormallyl~m lOfoot. You know ~st mm my lnope~. I've ~ot a lO foot
ensemeat on ev~y skl~ of my In~flty nndI Ihink most of us do er st least in t~:ent dcwlol~nenls or
subdivisions in Ctmnlmsam but I ~ink if an~_htnS ~ thf~ w~ some _Ctunmnnt~_ti_flnt lxobklns prkr tO ~
meeting...or whatever to the stuff rep~ bu~ I think thc infopn~io~ was covcml butI Ilmess if the Rome's really
feel ,trot they dMn't really adequacy understand or lmve a fair chance to e~ln_ tn it or ask cemstderaflm of it,
Councilman Senn: l~oltow up with a motim on yow su~im~
City Cotmci] Meeting - October: 25, 1993
Councilman Wing: I gue~ I'd go nlong with Mn~k's, if it even requires n motion. The ethical issue doesn't
impact me at nil but I think they have n right to understand what occurred and feel conff~l$ with what
happened. That it's corrected and if we need to bring it back and if it req~ n motion, I'll second Mark's
motion to bring it back.
Dave Rouse: Like I say, it wasn't what had finally occm'red. It was the manner.
Mayor Chmieh In which it did.
Dave Rouse: And I don't know if everybody understands exactly what we're saying about it. If I could make
one small chart to clarify it. And Mark, you don't quite understand the whole tbt%o?
Councilman Senn: Well Dave, again I'm going'by memory but I remember the issue was that you were
changing property lines. That by changing the property lines there was an easement along the profzaty line that
you're now getting rid of and was no longer going to be a ~ line. And ff I remember the staff report
corr~tly, the~e was an exchange in effect raying okny, we're going to release the dedication of the mmemeat on
that Protzaty and want~l to move it to the extn'ior ~ linc so it's the mndnrd 10 foot rather than I think 5
foot which was on that linc at that time. And that...but ngnin, becanae I know you guys.
Dave Rouse: ...why don't I show you.
Councilman Wing: Well Mr. Mayor, this is a visitors presentnfion and ~ things hit staff and Council cold. I
think it's ~ to continue on any further. I tbinir we ought to get this put away.
lViayor Chmiel: No, I guess I would like to just see what he's talking about.
Drive Rouse: Our ~ line was there. There was an easement. We granted an easement to move the
~ line. We asked this be vacated. All the documents were set up that way and plenty of notice. The
Monday of the meeting we got mail of the Council, or that the Planning Commission recommended vacation of
the casement if we would clumge this 5 foot easement to 10 feet for a new road that was already being put in
here. So they got 5 feet more here. I had n Tonka United meeting that I had to be at. Cindy bna to come in
and do this so they granted this.
Councilman Senn: And _this was a 10 foot easement~
Dave Rouse: This was, I don't remember what it was. I was an easement along thc property line. This is the
new one that was granted when we changed the lxopmy line.
Councilman Senn: Of which 5, part was on your lxopezty and part was on the abutting Ixoperty?
Dave Rouse: On the next one, yeah.- And they ~_de~__ this piece as a condition of removin$ this piece. And
that's purely what it was. And it was the fact that it was at the last minut~ without giving us a proper time to
Councilman Wing: We're saying he doesn't have to nccept that. We're going to hrin$ it bnck.
MayorCiunid: No. No. Tlm'swhatlwmsayi~,yes.
.
Dav~Rome: Th~~m~w~accept. ImmaI~lt~~ofil. l~',thewaylimtitm
Councilman Sero: rn withdraw my motion.
Maym'Chnfiel: ~ lsthemuanyc~-rvMturprmmiafim7
Mayor _O,m~: We have done
Maym' Chmiel: Well I would hope that we're not trying to pun _dd. over your eyes.
City Council ~g - October 25, 1993
than what the school district would nonnnlly provide. I would like to show her a report from the nrchitect to the
school district which shows what they typically buikl for an eiernentnry school. That is ex~tly what the school
district is going to build. They are not building more than that. We're not paying for any part of the
recreatio~ component that is on the school district's property. We nrc enhancing the recremional opportunities
by building a gymnasimn on our ~ that would be used for city mn activities. To the exlr, nt that we
would have an after school ngreement allowing the citizens of this community, which includes the youth out of
the Minnetonka school district, the op~ty to use both of those ~rns, we will do that. But ngain, the
meet/ns rooms, the gymnasium on our property will be under thc exclusive contwl of the City of Chanhassen.
Mayor Chnfiel: Thank you.
Councilman Senn: Don, I hsd a question if I could just. Being that Mr. Hickey that asked enrlier, was your
objective over the State Statute?
Bill Hickey: I wanted to point out to the Council that I felt that thc State Statute that I read is clear that the
Council. I also pointed out a personal opinion. I thought the notice for the evening the issue was being
discussed...I had two objections... -
Councilman Senn: I'm sorry, I had to leave early last time because I was sick. Was there any, I mean did
anybody appear to speak on the issues at all?
Mayc~ Chmiei: No one addressed it at nil.
Councilman Mason: You know, if I may. Every year in January we go through a fist of things that Council has
to do to facilitate information getting passed out. The newspaper in town is the Chanhas~ Villager and every
notice of every meeting that is eve~ held that has to do with city business is in that paper. There have been
many notices about public henfings, about TIF dislricts. This district, what have you. At what point does the
respons~ty of the city to disseminate information compare with the responsibility of the citizens of that city to
find out what's loing on in the city. I mean after we've printed something in the newspaper, I'm not quite stn~
what else we can do short of putting x thousand home~ on a mailing list.
Councilman Wins: ...There weren't public heatings and that's not fair.
Councilman Mason: Well there were public hearings.
Councilman Wing: There were ntune~ous public heatings on this issue.
Sue Mar/an: My name is Sue Mar/an. I live at 4031 Kings Road and just to address the question that you
brought up. I think it's an interesting one. I've lived in Chanhasscn for a little more than 3 years now and I
was not aware that Chanhassen had a newspaper. I've not seen, you know I don't know if that's your fault, my
fault or the newspaper's. But that could be part of the problem is that people aren't aware.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: They have a city wide dism'bution regardless of...It's a voluntary subscription.
·
Sue Mor/an: We've never received it and pan of the problem is that we're on Bxcehior mailing list, Out of the
Excelsior post office.
Oty Cotmdl 1V, geti~ - October 25, 1~13
You know becmmc it's not being dissemimled.
Coup_~mnn Mason: Wellthat'slruebutntwhntlmim. ImeanLwhatyou'remyinllislm~ If the pspeg's not
getting delivered to areas, that's a lxoblem but what else cm the Oty do?
Sue Mmpm: Right. Risht, it's a dilemma.
~ Mason: Yeah, nnd tnaybe we need to __mira a Ionk nt that.
Councilman Wins: You're 55331 nren't you? All 331 gets it. The ~ can be they nm out and you ltvb
on a mhd thnt I could imagin~ t~y run out.
Sue~ Yeah, we live m a dirt rind.
Don Ashworth: ffyonwonidlil~thnt. Myfim~wnsthntlwould~etacopyoftheopinkmand
inuvidc that to thc City Council and send it to Bm 1~. The last lady who was up, I herod the Mny~ risking
provide, well a lot of fire informs~ Ffl ~ ~~g m ~ ~ ~ m ~ ~ ~ ~ It makes it a iittl~
harder to distribute to Cmmcil but I can Ilet you all the notices ~ gmsc kinds of {tdnlls ff You'd like ~ m ~
If that's next meeting or whate~.
Ci~ Council Mee4ing - October 25, 1~93
Councilman Wing: I think you'll have to cove~ the words tax increment and all the laws nnd the HR.& I think
that once again I'm going to make a pitch here. I think that the public, rather than come here on these issues,
ought to be nttending the real Council meetings which happen on thc Thursdny nights nt the HRA. That's where
the TIF money is spent. That's where it's decided on. That's where these projects come from so yon can look
nt the Council and say, well mmghty you but in fnct they're I-IRA projects Mr. Mason.
Councilman Senn: This one's not an HRA project.
Councilman Wing: No, weJ1 but it crlginatcd there because it had to do with tax increment expenditures and I
think that the HRA was the original one that heard and saw this. So when you get into tax increment, you sutrt
getting into two separate worlds a little bit that are sometimes very awkward and difficult and they put me under
pressure as a Council member to try and coordinate thc two agencies every once in a while. But let's not fro'get
the word HRA when we get through these discussions Don.
Mayc~ Chmiel: That's ri/bt. Very good. If seeing no other visitor presentation, I'll move along with the
agenda.
PUBLIC HEARING: A$$F_~MRNT HEARIN0 FOR MINNEWA~HTA PARKWAY IMPROV~EbiENT
PROJECT
Public Present:
Name
Jerry Kortgard'
Jerry Johnson
Ellen Hawley
Terry Rixe
Bill Engclhardt
Jerold & $canette Boley
Ltnda Scott
Sue Morsun
Lowell and Janet Carlson
Lisa Braff
Jo Ann Hallgrcn
Dave H~-~_la
3901 Glen~l~-
3940 Glendale
3703 So. Cedar Drive
7456 Minnewashta Parkway
Chaskn
7414 M~-wsshta Parkway
4031 Kings Road
4031 Kings Road
4141 Kings Road
7410 Minnewashta Padtway
6870 Minnewsshta Pnrkway
Stratford n tSe
Charles Folclu Mr. Mayor, members of the Council. As you requested following the public discussions
co~g Minncwashta Parkway assessment hearing of the last meeting, the projcct engineer has made a review
of the testimony given and has provided a response to each of thc written and verbal concerns presented by the
residents. Some of the questions and concerns raised were also IXcsented to mff and thc engineer prl~r to the
meeting and were responded to in wriign f~rrn and those have corresponding letters have been included in the
packet. Those property owners who questioned the number of units being proposed against their ~, we
have met with planning and made a rcview of each of these Pmtgrties to determine, to verify accuracy of the
proposed units. A few revisions were deemed appropriate. Rcvigd notices were sent out to those ~.
10
variance stnmfion and staff is m:~mnm3dins that if th~ ~ owna' is wmh~ to dedi~ a cmsmN, mi~
_t~r_ th~ irope~'s unl~ik~__M~. Oneofthme~rv~pmsedoutarevisedpase47. Tf~wssaty~
11
City Council Mee,~g - Octobe~ ~, 1993
that particular case we're projecting out what we feel is going to be the final contract nmotmt. We are only
assessing 20% of the cost of the project and we fee,1 very comfortable that 20% of the weak has been complete.
Mr. Terry Rixe objects to the number of units of nsse~ment- He had 4 units. We feel that the 4 units is
correct. In fact his pmIxmy ia shown on the Boley property as being the ndjncent pa'opea~. It's not shown as
being developed. It's very clear that that ~ could sustain 4 units. The wetlands are defined in that
preliminary plat and there's absolutely no reason that he couldn't get 4 units out of thea'e. He also questioned
the rmann water entering his Inolxmy and review of out drawings nnd our calculations, we feel that we nc~nlly
reduced the amount of stann wnter going on Mr. Rixe's ptepetty tn'ior to the project. David Kramer objected to
the nase, ssment for 1 unit. He also had a question on thc access for Pleasant Acres roadway and I'll speak to
thnt issue Inter. Jo Ann Hallgren, she was originally asseased 28 units. She says there no special benefit to
market value, Her units were reduced to 16 nntt~. The original 28 traits were baaed on n sketch drnwing of that
since the time of the originnl sketch drawing, that has been changed and it does not appem' that her properly is
part of that other plan developmenL Janet Carlson objected to the number of units. We had 8 units down for
them. We feel that is correct. Again, only 1 unit will be assessed nt this time and the _~lnnce will be ~
until the ~y develops. Kathy Paradise questioned why she had 2 units of nssessme, ats. She does in fact
have 9. parcel numbers. ~5-66(X)231 and 25-66(X)250 nnd therefore she was assessed for 9. units. Mr. Wenzel
wants thc assessment on the house now and leave the remainder def~ He had 18 units and ngain that is the
plan to defer those units. He questioned how the unit cal~tlon is made and we looked at their gross area of
their laOtnmy. Removed $0% of the ~ for any future right-of-way, which is the standard in the industry.
And then we took out any wetlands, non-butldable properties, steep alopea, nnd the resulL we came up with a net
axea thnt's the azea that the units were based on. Mr. HeMla. Again, he wanted I unit now and the remainder
deferred. Both of theae property owners along with Mrs. Hallgten _tn_~t_M to the issue of the interest to be
charged and I'll covet that a attic bit later. Mm~ Rogers ..~bjected to the assessment until the project is
complete. We're recommending no change in the assessm~t. The question of the dedication of the tight-of-
way. That right-of-way was dedicated in 1957 on a plat for Pleasant Acres. That's very clear thnt Minnewashta
Parkway right-of-way was inclucted in that. Nicholas I-Iawley..parcels were unbuildable lots. The city's letter of
October 6th explains thnt circumstance. Sue Morgan objected to the number of untts assessed. She was sent a
letter on October 8th from the city. Her units we. re reduced from 4 to 3. Susan Schilling objects to the
assessment. Thnt was 1 unit. There's no change. Scott Polsom objects to the assessment and wants reduction
of $300.00. I-Ih conunent was all residents atew, ased eq,_n~y on or off the parkway and he felt that was tmfnlr.
We feel that the method of assessment, nssessing it ns an overall area basis for people thnt use Minnewashta
Parkway in that partic,~ar area should be asse, ssexl. Craig Lamm objects to paying before the project ia complete
and that's basically the same answer as before. Willard and Rhoda Aanenson objected to the 1 unit. Thcre'd be
no ¢lumge. Charles Ancling objected to the unit because one parcel of land and that's explained. We feel that
that lot is buildable. It would possibly need a variance on it. There are variances in the area identical to that
particular loL A precedent has been set for the variance and if Mr. Anding would like to put a conservati~
easement across that property, we could remove the 1 mote unit. Bethany Lockhard is in the same situntion.
Matilyn Larson wants 1 unit for the single family and the remainder deferred until devil We hnd
proposed 3 units of assessment there. Louis and Oladys/.akrieson objects to the assessment that their
landlocked property. That they've got a landlocked ~. They're retite, d. They wottld ~lnliry for the
deferment on the nsscssm~t. We would like to maintain the 3 units thnt was originally asseas~ for them. I
think they ahould note that if they feqtlest a deferment, that the interest doeg lull on that and ~mmimes it's more
difficttlt to pay it Inter. Richard Palmer objects to the 2 units of assessmenL He weat from I unit to 2 nfter
review of his property. Leonard I-Iine. The project nssesstnenL He just objected to iL There's no change in
that. Mark Milonowsk7 did not nppeax but he sent a letter and objected to the 4 units of assessment. After
review of his ~, since it is Hght on and adjacent to Lake St. Joe, due to the dimculty and...of that lake,
12
r
concerned ~ it ~ n fibe~_b~ pole and thnt light pole is Ihe stnndard f~ the city of Chnnlmsm, in a
you can insudl than, they ~ m ~ ~ But that's ti~ stone ~ pore _*t~'s used in all the rukJential
areas of Omnhasse~ AsainnsaSmmlccnmunt, we'msssessins~u, the~beins~ 't'ne
down at ~c lak~ up to the road. It's20fcet, crl00feeC It*sat20~grade. We've dooe as mnch as we couid
lWOpetty ownerL TI~ other _~dng that comes into play is that that's ad~ to mmdtm' PieCe of ~ dmt in
nil likeUlmod would be i-~rin.o~.S on thnt ~ and there has been some qnestim about, of ~-mnny where
that boat access stmukl be nnd who hss the right to rise iL I _person_ ~ ~'t ~ m ~ involved in a
and there's very little ch~ge. Itstillhnda20~gmde. We tried to flattm it out up on top as best we could bot
there's just no way to make that pride up unless you start mun~ down towards ~ in~ And that's a totally
thecity maycharge3~ over thc bond mtc to cover costs incuffcd by thc city for the lifc of the bonds. Past
policy of the city hn~beenton~w~~m f~pmjects__n~mqg I l/2% to 2~ over the bond ra~ Our
ggnernl contractor f~r --~c'~-_ .E and if you wnnt to look tnmy ~ log y~n ~ see the nnmber of times thnt
andtlmthey'reallbnckloglp~ It'sv~ry~fd~'ultlol~tsodandit'sv~y~v~. Ithinkth~justdoa't
13
City Council Meeting - October 25, 1993
more anxious to get this project over than I am. And I will get this sod in this year. I litink the othn' ti/hi tlmt
~ residents have to remember is that we do a final punch list and a punc~ list ~ to final where the project is
nct-~Hy accepted by the City. At this time thc project has not been nccepted by the city until final payment is
made, We nrc withholding over $70,000.00 of rctainage of work complete and there will be recommendation
from us in reduction of that rctainage until the project Is complete. We witi do a punch list tht~ fall and we will
do one in the spring, And then at that time when all those items are completed and everyone is satisfied, the
project will be recommended for r~ltng and thc dollars can be reduced. So we do lmve some leverase to get
some of these things done from the contrnct~. Item number 6 1 ~ on briefly enrlier. It was between the
residents in Victoria nnd ~ the residents thnt nm being sec'viced by this city for sewer and wnter nm the
residents that are being assessed. They're in the upper end of Minnewashta Parkway and there was ncp_ ,nny
Victoria at atl about any annexations and they're not being serviced by any of Chanhassen's millties. Item
nnmber 7. There was a lengthy disphy on how to get into Minnewashtn Pnfltway off of Hishway 7. Off of
l-rt~h~y 5. He was pretty good.
Councilman Mason: You'r~ going to repeat that for us now aren't you7
Bill Engelhn~: Can't do it.
Councilman Wing: I could.
Bill Engelhardt: I don't necessarily disagree with him but Minncwashta Pm'kway was dictatcd...those
intersections were dictated to us by ~ Highway Department, by MnDot fcr entering State roads. Previom to
the parkway those intersections did not come in at 90 degree angles. It's a very dangerous situation to not como
in nt 90 degree angles. They will not nllow you to come in on new comtmction or nnything that's being
reconstructed. They will not allow you to come in at an nskewed nnglc. You have to come in to the intersection
at a 90 degree and then in order to fit into the adjacent right-of-way, you need to have a 30 mph curve or curb
come around it to meet that 90 degree angle. That's why before it was probably before easier to drive.
Depending on which way you were coming. They could slip right off but tcchnic~y ff there would have been
an accident at that intersection, there wns some potential for some real liability because those fonds were not
hearings the intersections nrc scheduled for sigh_Ii,ed intersections. And at the time they were talking about
'94-95. Now I don't know if that's been kicked off, depending on funding to '95-96. Those partic, lnr
intersections are scheduled for silpmls. At that time they would build mm lanes and put In the signals. We felt ·
it wns better for MnDot to spend thc money to build expensive turn lanes than for the city at _this time to spend
thc money through State Aid funds to build the mm lanes. And then we wouldn't have, you'd have the mm
lanes but we'd be waiting fc~ thc signals and we'd have a real confused area. So what we've done is we built
the interim section until MnDot comes in and ~ini~es off the turn lanes and signals. Item number 8 on our list
addrcssing the property owners...Hawley propmy and s?iu we feel those lots are bplldn~!~ Certainly ff they...
put a conservation easement on and still chatlenBc the assessment n?iu, this is not the last stop and they
certainly can challenge it in the courts and see what happe~ there. And that's the case with nil the
owners. Right now we're establishin~ an amount tonight for the assessment to be levied and they'll still have
their opportunity to challenge their assessment and present their documentation and their evidence to the courts.
So with that I'll let Charles conclude. Thank you.
Councilman Mason: Can I. Time for questions now or later7
14
City Council Meeting - October 2S, 1993
Bill Engelhatdt: Sure.
Maym' Chmicl: Surc, you can ask qucslimm.
Councilman Senn: Wereanyclmnsed~a~~~ Yoo know that did not obJcc~ Youknow
dcckicd ~ SL J~ ~ ~ a ~ ~ I mean woukl then ~ ~ ~ m SL J~
BmHn~ ~ wa'e all reviewed.
Councilman Senn: And chan~
public heafins?
May~rChmiel: Well, umilwegetmhcarfmmthebn~nn~eofthepeopleandlthl~it'dbettme~ Chndes,
do yon want to?
m~,Utu8 a recmnmeadafioa to adopt the revised assemn~nt role which is conmhed in your lmckem.
Su~l~: Su~l~4031~Rood. Ijmtwantcdtoclfaifythattheass~anmthbeingbatedoo
tho~ homes m' those ~ ti~ ~ are beins m'vk~ by Clmnhnm city wntw and sewm' as well as
Clmrles Folch: No. Well
15
City Council Meeting - Octob~ 23, 1993
Sue ~: So that right now the people _th_hr live on Kings Road have septic and wells whereas people in
Bill Engellutrdt: That refers only to the Victoria residents...Victoria where we could annex them and provide
th~neaa
Sue Mor/an: We're in the city but we're not being serviced by the city...so just to cinrify why nm I being
nssessed for Minnewashta Parkway.
Charles Fokh: Your lxoperty has been basically defined in the service benefit area for thi~ project. It was
defined and included in the feasib~ study. You need to access Kin~ Road via Minnewnshtn Pmkwny.
Cenninly there is benefit../rom the project,
Sue Morgan: Because I happen to be in Chanhassen city limits...Minnewnshtn Pntkway. The people thnt live in
Victoria, they've got to use Minnewashta Parkway. That's the only way they can get in sad out of their homos.
But because they live in Victoria, they're not being nssessed, That's the only difference between my house sad
the/r house. My assessment nnd they're not being nssesse2. It's just a matter of location. Is that correct?
Cimrles Fokh: 'That's correct, nnd certainly the City Attorney c~n nddress this more thowuglfly than myself but
we have no mechanism to levy nny assessmeam ss~ins~ ~be l~Ol~e~ of Victoria without the wolmmlion of the
Victoria city offtci~. Therefore we don't have the authority, there would have to be some sm of ngreement
and thnt basically is, ns BRI mentioned, the properties in Victoria thnt are cturently serviced with sewer and
warn- potency could come on line for development and possibly...Vi~ residents. There was also an
agreement to this with the city of Victoria addressing th~ issue.
Sue Mor/an: And they..,if that's the way Kings Road will be developed and those people that are now paying
for Minnewashta Park in assessments will have to pay...nssessments. Is there anyway to clarify the existing
Kings Road and the description of those people that live on it that are in Victoria, It would be nice to have
them share in some of the expense ff Kin~s Road going to be developed, If they're going to be driving on it,
And if this bas happened once with Minnewashta Parkway and they're not being assessed for somethin/that
they're benefitting from. is there some way in the future to make sure that they are subject to...gaining from
benefit from Kings Road,..so I'm just trying to find out fix)m the board maybe what we can do now to try to
anticipate what's goin~ to happen to Kings Road in the future so that...l don't expect them to be annexed or
with...but they should be paying for the services that are...
Mayor Chrniel: I don't disagree with you one least bit. The only thing that we c4m, ~/e cnnnot assess another
conununity unless the othe~ community agrees to it, And there's been many things that have been done on that
road that, as you're saying, directly benefit those people and we don't have that ri/hr, Maybe Roger, you'd like
to.
Sue Morgan: Is there any way we could just clarify the existence of the road. Who owns it...
Roger Knutson: Our ability to ~,sess in Victoria is traseal on...
Sue Morgan: So basicslly what you're saying is if Kings Road was developed, for example this development...
we would then assume all of the assessments for Kings Road?
16
Sue~: Yeah unltl it occurs it's mo late. Whenltoccmsit'stoolatc. Justlik~..
Roger Knmson: I cnn't tell you what the fncts n~ going to be 5, ~r I year, 5 yen~s, 10 years down thc mad.-
a~a is annexed ~ ~ a~ nmybe this or that. It's posmTnle,.
aplxovcd by a developer. What I can re. il you, it is ~ to be aplwoved under a public imlwovonmt
difficult to say what's going to h?pen at thnt point in time hot the~ will be necessary ~ ~ ~ ~
Mayer Chmiel: Yeah.
came time, and thc~ arc a cout~ other Comcil members ~t sat here as weJl regarding'thc total asses~tml~.
we tried to do some m~re nmssnging to mnim_- it so it's not a real bnxden on nn ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
and we came up with thnt $758.00 which I ttmught was gnmt and I didn't think we we~ going to have ns ranch
problem ns what we have fight now. But with that $758.00 we we~ jtmt a .co~_. e dollars off nnd being
off from the $758.00 total figure to the $760.00 which is being nssessed, I thought we did a tresnendom job in
just wanted to sort of clarify some of those things dmt we, I know we wod0ed many ~ many nights trying to
lVlayorChmicl: That's right. As much as we'd like to.
Councilman Mason: I think also in a situation like ~ ~ we have to accept a feesibflity ~ ~
anything can start and I'm certainly only sp~_ ~_.o for myself but in a situation wluwe both cities like tint would
Jerry Johnson: I'm Jerry J_~n~ at 3940 Olendale Driv~ rm abo a member Of lqoismit Acres. I have one
question fo~Bin there. What's the sutms of the lnmch list and thc mnh~ Specificailyourmh~ Weimven't
17
City Council Meeting - Octobe~ 25, 1993
Bill Engelhardt: The stairs will be going in by the restmalton of the contractor.
Jerry Johnson: That's the same guy, the sod guy
Bill Engeihardt: I know thnt's not a good answer for you but...
Jerry Johnson: Secondly, the road thing and I know thor's quite a dispute with our neigh~ down there
regarding the road but currently he happened to save his trees and we lost 3 or 4 feet on our side became the
bike path had to get switched from one side of the road to the other. So tttcreforo we get steeper grade.
Bin Engelhm'dt: No. The~ was very little grade change in your partiodm' area because your area is more on
thc curve and as we came pest his house and through the curve, we modified it v~ry slightly. The~ was vea'y
little grade change.
Jerry Johnson: Did the road move 3 feet?
Bill Engellmrdt: We cottidn't do ns much ns what we wanuxl to do for you. I know we talked nbout a number
of times in trying to get that boat access in there and make it easier fcr you. I can't do it without titling down
towards the lake. And ngain, ff the Council so directs we will fill down to the lake but I don't feel that that's
part of thc scope of _this project.
Jetty Johnson: What it's going to take now is a good running start and get your nose out oa~o the ht~hway.
Bin Bngclhardt: It did before~ ·
Jerry Johnson: But that wnsn't what we were told at the initial meeting. Is that we'd have a better platform nt
the top to land on. Anyway we didn't. It doesn't look like we got it nnd won't get it so. The other question I
had is on total cost. How did the $760.00, whnt are we nc_~udly paying for7 How much is road and how much
is sewer, curb and gutter and bike path?
Bill Bngcllutrdt: Well it's not broken down to a specific items. It's 20~ of the project cost. For the total
project, roads, sewer and water, storm sewer, bikeway came up to...Thcrc was a question about who was paying
for the storm sewer. Whether that was part of thc $760.00. The way thc storm sewer works then, State Aid was
between I believe 65% of the cost...that they would cmuibnte 65% of the cost for storm sewer. The city's
policy is to pay 50% so in all, in all reality the storm sewer was not part of the project cost but you still in effect
the $760.00 had to bc calc-I~e~d on the total project cost, including the storm sewer. So maybe out of that
$760.00 you're paying $5.00...
Jerry Johnson: Okay. How about for the bike path7 It's my undcrsmndl~ that that was corning out of park
mmcy? At the first hearing.
Bin Engclhardt~ The State Aid chan~ed their rules between the time that thc project was initiated. The initial
public hcarinss...Statc Aid would not pay for thc walkway. Just within thc last,, oh 6 months or so they've
changed their talcs. Now walkways and sidcwnn~s can be paid for State Aid dollars.
18
Jerry Johnson: Okay, so basically you're saying thc State of Iv~ with thc ezc~ of thc sewer.
Bill Hngclhardt: No. Not the State of
Jerry Johnson: Or State Aid money, I'm sony. 'I~ State Aid money can be used to pay ftr ~in~
for 35% of the sewer?
Bin Eng~h~u'dt: Yeah, that's con~
JerryJoim~n: AndthenthecitynmneywnsjUstasencmlccm~Ibulion? It was not eannadml then fo~.
Bm EnSenumlC ~t was not earmadmt for a ~ pan of the Isuje~ no.
Todd Gedmrdl: We'ze gelling some_if you tnlk mine directly into the mics that helps.
...suggest we take a look at that one or Council tak~ a look at it.
Councilman W'mg's statement was not understandable on the tape.
LisaBraff:. My name is Lisa Braff and l live at 7410 Mtnnewnshta Pmkway. Iliveonthepnrt~thePmkw~
the l-lawflsm~ Circle cul.de-sac and I'm really dl .~!qminl~ that I'm not going to get my nuo'n~ox acnss the
street from me. lt'sarealrefercn~pointf~rpeop~tofindmyhouse. We live up on a hill tmck a wa~s so
people can't even really see the address clearly and I just want to mak~ sm'e that's done.
Bill Engelhardt: We've got your name.
LisaBraff: Yeah, nndtlme's6peopletimtI~inkamtnvolved. 'l'neBol~'s.
19
City O~mcU Meeting - Octot~ 25, 1993
Bill Euselhardt: We'll look at that.
Lisa Braff: My question, why wasn't that pathway bumped over enough to put a strip there. There's ~tt.~_. almmt
a whole other pathway left.
Bill Bnselhardt: I can't tell you that. I don't know specifically where you live but I would think...
Lisa Braff: Okay. And when it comes to maintenance of that path, are they going to be shoveling it in the
winter o~ does everyone do it themselves ~r I mean, what's the.
Charles Folch: We'll be plowing that trail
Lisa Braff: Okay, and what about all that lp'ass. Is that going to get mowed in the summer?
Chaides Folch: Boulevard sreas.
Maycr Chmi~: You could save the city money if you were to mow it.
Lisa Braff: ...that liU. le strip.
Charles Folch: That's something we'll have to keep our eye on. It's hoped that where the Im~l~v/, where the
boulevard's in front of a property that's directly their front yard, that the people will take the initiative.
Lisa Braff: That's obvious, yeah but thcrc's a lot of land.
Charles Folch: But we'll have to keep an eye on it and ff there's other areas where there's no direct lxoPe~
owner that..~sibility for it, we'll take care of that.
Lisa Braff: Okay, just one other note. Right across tile street is a lot of...and I've got kids and I'm concerned
about them setting hurt and..~junk and stuff so I'd like that cleaned up.
Bill Bnsellumtt: The last les is to set thinss cleaned up so we will do that.
Lisa Braff: Thank you. Ovcrall...Thank you.
Councilman W'ms: ..anailboxes 5oins to be~..?
Bill Bngelhardt: I'm soin~ to check and see if we can°t ~t those in the walkway. We do have an 8 foot
walkway there. If we can work somethinl~ out to Set thcm in the~c where they can...
Councilman Mason: You know ff I could just quickly add. The Mayor is also the Acting Weed Inspectm', ff
I'm not mistaken so if you've Sot weeds, sivc him a call
Maycr Chmicl: Espccially if they're noxious. As that statemcat. Okay, anyone cise?
Jo Ann Hallgrcn: I'm back. Jo Ann Hallgrcn, 6860 M]nnewashta ~. I don't think anyone objects to the
$?60.00 per unit. For mc I would bc more thsn happy to pay it toniBhC I'm harpin~ ~str~ on the unit
assessment for no~ use. V~ny do l have to pay f~ 15or 16familicsthatal~n'tevm ~n~ngit~ Thatto
me it's dis~irmt_~ IAgaingt pl~ ~ I~ I can't help that I own the 12 nc~s. Or the 11 1/2 acres but
when the place is sold and d~ you have to have a building ~ m ~ a ~ ~ V~ny can't you
hn~ cansed a lot of bad ~rt with thc ~sidents ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ I can't
maybe you do but somebody says well, you can't fight C~ hall ~ Fm _beginning to bcltmm it.
Councilman Wing: ...I don't have it in front of me, 15.
Jo Ann Hallgren: lhavc 11 1/2 acres and l had it rednced from 28to 16...thatwasalwMlminaz~platftmnjust
acoupl~monthsago. That 28 units was assessed m m h l~l~~~~m~~ Iwrotc
~ouncilman W'mg: ...I mcan that's ~ our policy up to this point. I (kn't see _tJmt chansins tonisht and
it's.=intcrcst ~iq off that. Because if you were to keep it ou for 20 years, you'd wind up owin8 so much ~
you couldn't scl] it.
Jo Ann Nallgren: Well that wns another questiou. IjustgotthisL~nightwhenlcmne. I'mthe~ofa
credit union nnd I deal with ~ nnd lonns and finnnces_ ~ d~ nnd I would lik~ to have a ~ ou
charging 6% if it's ~ Idon'tseehowitcmbedefesmiandstinchm~6~. And then after a cesUlin
time frame it's going to add 30~ to the o~iginnl asse~sment~
CouncilmanW'mg: Comcimcklater. C~nebacklatcr~lwnntedtotwing~~~m~~
public h~g ~_,nn~. that COliC~l'ns m~..X ~llt~ to brJl~ thnt tip. I want a cl~ ou thnt also.
Jo Ann Hallgren: Okay. ~eotherthingisMr.-l/~e~ardtistalking~~a~Iwould~to
peoplehcrc, it cost $100.00 to filc an appeal and it costs thc city a lot mm~ thsn_ that to hire m aplniscr to
come out and appraise your prolmly. So that's one handle we might have.
Jo Ann Hall~ I'm fishting fro' oqnnlizalio~ That's whnt Fm fighting fc~.
JanetCadsm~ Janet Cadson at 4141Kings RoM. Igueasoneofthequcstimslhaveb,~Jo~~~
get somc of her's. Her'sdrol~what l~-14ofthcm. W'nopicksthoscup? Theninanolher~~m~
drc~ and thorn's another one ~ and time's nnolhn' cme ~ I'm w~mde~ln~, who is Boing to be
$760.00. So somebody's going to have to pick those up, T'ncnlsuessldon'tmdm~mndlik~our'sis8, Ithink
we have 8 deals. So our's comes to $6,000.00. A h~__ _a OV~ $6,000D0. Well ff we have 8 years to l~tY off win
we?
21
City Council ~g - October 25, 1993
Mayor Chmiel: Yes.
Janet Carlson: Okay. At 7 1/2% interest, d~nt should boost our taxes about $1,000.00 a year. Right?
Mayor Chmiel: I think but I'm not sure.
Janct Carlson: ..so thru they're more than likely going to develop Kings Road and we're going to have curb
and gutter, which we*Il have to pay for and nobody else isn't. We*re going to have a road to pay for and aH the
sewer and water. We'll be taxed out.
Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, and that's not our intent really. As Rol~ e~lain~ before.
Janet Carlson: It's looking that way. But anyway, another thing. I do feel that we should have a good
maintenance on that walkway. My husband almost killed somebody there Friday morning because they're on the
road. Now if they want to be on roads, we'll drive on the walkway.
Mayor Cl~niel: I understand what you're saying.
Councilman Wing: ...
Janet Carlson: No, he was rotlerblading. Some man was rollerblading on the road. I mean he never even
moved and hc wns coming right head on at Lowell.
Councilman Wing: I've seen that.
Janet Carlson: But I mean it's just, it's too muddy. There's too many leaves. It's too dirty. Fine. We'll drive
the walkway. And I think they should...
Mayor Chmiel: Thank you.
Bill Bngelhardt: Don, can I respond to that? In thc cssc of the Carlson pmlm'ty. A~iu, we did review that.
We went through it and felt that the 8 units that they applied is a cxm~ number of units. The question or
comment about we reduce the units and we're losing some units and we're gaining some units also, where's the
other money coming from? It basically comes from the State Aid fund and we're still going to be nssessing the
20% of the cost...I guess her other comment about, and I think one thing that people have to undctmn~
including Ms. Hallgren is that thc ~ is to assess only one unit at this time. Payable one unit, Any
additionnl units will be deferred until the prolmW is developed. I think the question is, and that's been the
~ all along. From day one those units would be deferred. The question tonight probably that will come
up... past city policy has been to include the interest. Thnt's totally at to the discretion of the Council. Most of
these propextie~, including thc ~ of Kings Road, there's major plats out there. Preliminary review and
final review right now. I think when they say we're going to be assessed for Kings Rond, these people have to
understand thnt generally the case is if those areas developed, the developers arc developing both sides of Kings
Road, they are going to be responsible for upgrnd_ _irtg ~ roadway ns part of their development cost. That's
generally the way it works. Now if sewer and water was going to be extended back to these prolznies, nnd they
were going to benefit from that, they were going to benefit from that. They were going to be able to hook up to
that sewer and water, in all likelihood they might be assessed. It all depends on what the development pays far
and how far thc linc goes so it's a misconception that they're being assessed right now. Thcy nrc being assessed
22
City Council Meeting - October 25, 1993
~ ~ for ~ent, but it can still s~min the 16 units.
lanetCadmn: ..lflmmy~~~8~nt7 1~2~~ SoIgaa~,Im~aifIizkltl~$760/)O,I
would hav~ no problem with that until what tim~ m this had was ~v~ dovelopod ~ mytMn$ but ti~ intm~
Btll Hn~ Thnt's exactly what the Council's going to decide,
1nnet Cmtson: Okay. I menn I dm't hnve a problem with $760.00. I'n pay thnt.=
lm~___ nad I guess from my mnnd~ I want to go on recital flrmn the Stmtfm~ RMBe Hmneownefl
Assoc3_n__fion t_lw we have a couple of Im:rjects down thtwc tht need to be tmmpleted yet- One being the pnlh
know What 45 tOllS of ~ iL.down flint hill; itge~ a little tough so we'd iiim to see thnt complelml before,..
Bin Engelhardt: I met with Mr. Curtis a number of limes. I've assumi him that that win b~ ~ I can't
physically go out and do the work myself but we're doing evclTthtng wecan to ~et that completed.
Bill EngelhardC R's on the list.
JerryKcrt~ My name is Jerry K~ Ilivent3901Glendale~I~~~m4151~
the people who live up there nm being nssessed acc. cn~t~'Y to how much w~k ts done m the ~ The
more for what they're doing on their ~ than further down. It got down to lik~ to $400.00 cf $500.00 but
new sod. Theyl~t somethtn.qreallynic~outofit. My~ougtn~. Rmdisvncantnow. lt'sapieceof
property I wnnt to han~ onto and every time I looked around ~ ~ caxne in nnd grabbed off mmti~
pleceof~, Iwantto~it. And I just bougl~ _tMS lWOlmfly...you've got to lmy it before some
City Cotmci~ Meeting - October' 25, 1993
clc~loper I~ets it. And 1o and behold I h~ it about 30 days and a dov~ camo to mo, want to sell you land.
I said no, I kind of bousht it to keep you ousht. And they said, well Mr. F,~p?rd it's a window of
and I .just say well, that's fin~ if you want to sell it but I want to preserve it. And tho assessments don't help
with anything when we shell out a lot of money for thc deer to nm down a bike path that you never tree. I just
want to state my position cn it. Thank you.
Charles Folch: Mr. Mayor, if I could address the Chan Estates question quickly. The proposed street
assessments in that neighborhood ranl~e, at this point in time from $2,800.00 to $3,000.00 per lot. On top of that
there's an sddifional strum sewer assessment dependinl~ on the property could run from $500.00 to nnother
$1,000.00 so most of the properties up thoro m'e looking at a $3,500.00 to $4,000.00 street nnd storm sewer
assessmcnL Per lot.
Terry Rixe: Yeah, Terry Rixc. 7456 Minnewnshtn Parkwny. I live on the very south end of it. When _thh
project started n..onirl Bill Engelhardt nnd his nssociat~, Al Larson came out to my house. Told me I had three
buildable lots. One was lowland. During this project, now I've got a 3 foot cement storm sewer culvert running
through the property on the bottom which I didn't have before. And now he told me this improved my property
to mak~ it buildable for 4 assessments. Is that correct?
Bill Engelhardt: That's correct and again, ali I can say is that Mr. Rixe disagrees with thc assessment amount.
He ce~inly can appeal it but when we reviewed his pmpe~ and we looked at how the property lays out and
with the number of acres that he has, Ihat pwpe~ can be developed to tho 4 units. The 4 bulldable lots.
Councilman Wing: The issue..~once~ed about is thc assessment. Again, most likely he would be assessed f~r
one.
Bill Engelhardt: He would be assessed one unit. Thc policy is to assess one unit. When his ~, ff and
when his property was developed, then the other 3 would trigger.
Janet Cnrlsorc Okay, there arc some properties out there that nre 2 acres plus nnd are being assessed for one,
only one. There's two people that Uve next door to each other on Minnewnshta Parkway and they both have
plus acres and each one I~ot one assessment only.
Btll Engellmrdc Well if you can give me their name, we'll be happy to.
Janet Carlson: Well I'm not going to tattle but you 8uys didn't add all this up. But you know what, you had
trouble with one because last time when wc were here, 2 weeks ago, he said well I've got 2 1/4 acres, lie said I
got one asscssmenL I said well what are you hcrc for. I wouldn't complain on that,
Bill Enicthardt: We'll check it but I don't think that's correct.
Mayc~ Chmiel: Good. Anyone else?
fond, for me rising it. Or what's the story?
DonAshw~th: IfImaynspont Sm~Atdmndwayshavetypimllybeenarml~fnrth~cttY. 'l'ne
penon that fives on a Keztx~ BmtiL, vard doesn't ~ that lim~ is a ipmt bene~ to h/m by Imvin~ this type of a
coli~tor roadway adjacent to btm; Blnff~isanotherlpmdm3mp~. ]v~nnl~vaShllt~. Thm'e'salot
of traf~ that goes on that ~wlty andto think thnt~ thc peos~ tlmt frmt that ~y at'~ Boin~ to lMty th~
finally come back with a sohfion _,hnt ~ to be ~ by a nmj~tY of the ~ And I agree, st the
rmdway. 'f'nat's~~~B~~' ~N~at's what w~ did with Kntx~Boulevnrt ~'ne road right
if I nuty interject nt this point. Your comme~ in rel~rds m we've oaly levied o~ ~s~smm~ ev~a flmuSh w~
marked down and litcrally ~imew that~ 30 units was the~ ~ as in this .ix~ject, if we don't
now you're going to have a secondary and potentially a third tmyer who never knew that these 12 nn~ wese
sitting out thezc. So as long as Jean can mark ttinn ~ ~ ~ a ~ m ~ ~ ~ ~'t ~ ~
bonds f~r risht at 6%. 5.~8%. Thc ~ rule is we colkct 1 l/2%abovewhatweactnallysoMtbc~for
have to adminis~. Butinthntfi~t8yem~wehav~tocerlffyitdownm~~ Andtlm"s~ We
have to go down there nnd verify ~ ti~ assessment was paid. We imve to twing our assessmmt mlb beck ~
currcntto showthatnctual~ WcgolluQughthe~~ Igtmmntoeyou, fnr I 1/29Gwe'z~not
making m~y. 'f'nc ~ thc m3Sgestimt that I ~ tn my report was for all the Imrceb that we would be
assessing and it would be going on. The $760.00, ifthenssemnentmtestXyatthe7 1/2~. But for tlmse
parcels that you are going to de~'cr, and msess one unit to Ms. ~ but defer I~ otlusr 11.
that~ycs. Aftcra5 ymrsperiod. ShesellL We would add 30~. lnmherwords, myzecommen~ti_nn
nexts years. It just sits thea~ in Jean's cd~fice. We don't c~lJfy it down to the County. We dml't Bo down and
gctcollcctions. Wcdon'tdoanylhin~ We do pay the ~ cm those ~ ~~ Sowcdolxtythe6C~
Multiple it by the S years. Itwouldbe~)~Gwouldbenddcd~tl~m~linal~ lfi,mlybelievedmt
if you built that project out in 5 years, it would cost her basically I~ stone mnm~ of money. But I hit a whole
City Council Meeting - October 25, 19~3
Lowell Carlson: Of all the projects I can remembcr...sewer end warn', curb and gutter nnd bincktop and it/x)es
by and an individ~nl owns the pwpe~, he's assessed for that particulnr pan of it. I mean this is the first time
that I've ever even run into a mess like this. I realize it, now I usc Highway $ nnd I use I-llghway 7 but I hope
the State don't come end nssess my property for that hi/hway ff they ~o by with a 4 lane or something. I don't
quite really understand this totally..,and so now I don't, I don't mind helping out. And I've Sot to help my kids
in life too but to help everybody out, I'm kind of tired of it. Now when we I~O, say that Kings Rond Ig~ts
developed. Sewer and warn' nnd curb and gutter and blacktop goes up that lmby, who's going to help me pay
for it for a change? You know. Is there going to be any help around? Any ~ of who cnn help pay for that.
I think we're going to be stuck for this. $owe'llbeassessed~~~~. Is that what you
guys ere saying7 When that comes by I'll be assessed again $6,000.00 and $20,000.00 later, end whenever it
comes..,snd one individ_~_n_~ keep on paying. That's where kind of the cheese gets a iittle...I don't mind just
trying to make a living but I mean to be assessment on nssessment on assessment, nnd that's the way I look at it.
I look at that curb end gutter and blncktop...I don't think nnybody from Minnewashla ~y's going to help us
pay for it, that I know of. I haven't heerd nothing anyway. I guess I'm lookin~ for gu answer on that basis you
know. How many times are you going to keep on assessing the pwpeny and continue _thi~ deal. I guess that's
nil.
Mayor Chnfiel: Thnnks Lowell. Okay, we've nddressed some of those thin~s and it is a rc~x~itioa kind of
question. I think that we have tried to give nn answer on that. We don't really know because we can't really
give you an answer. As wes mentioned previously, if you have a developer go in there and ncquire those
properties, and it's going to be his responsibility to put that road in. So with that, is there nnyone else wt~hi~g
to address tltis?
Lowell Carlson: If thc developer comes in there, he will conlrol that nmount or does thc city control that
mount of nssessment?
Mayor Chmiel: No, he's required. When he puts in a development, the developers nrc requir~ to put rosds in
to a development.
Lowell Carlson: But if somebody decides to develop the r/md...
Don Ashworth: That's corre~ I mean it would have to go through a fensibility study process.
Councilman Wins: ...Lowell. There's a di~~ between an nrea ~sessment, which you're involved in, nnd a ·
local nssessment and those ere the facts of life...but the local nssessment you are on your own and...well
obviously nobody because there's a big difference between nrca nssessment on a major project and the local
assessment. That's I agree, a little tmul to swallow.
Lowell Carlson: An area assessment though, docs that mean that they pick & vncant area nnd this Is you and you
and you. This is across Highway 7. I don't think those people wer~ nssessed that use the nccess down there by
on Minncwashta Parkway. On the north side of the road.
Bill Bnl~elhnrdt: We attempted to but the Attorney said we couldn't do it. So we u-led to assess them.
Lowdl Carlson: Hennepin County
26
City Conncil Meeting - October 25, 1993
live on Mlnnewashm Pntkwny. i live on a ski~ ~ ~ I'm ~' m ~ m ~ m ass~smmt'on thnt sid~
slreet. Why Is my nssessment th~ same ns the people living m Minn~m~ln ~y who aren't gotng to hnve
to pay a side street ~t ~ their ~ is totally being tnkn~ cnm of now bY this ~ My
assessmeat. Yoaknowontoffnimessm~~~. Ilmvea't~nnyon~~~
nnd the project continued to f~dl_ And to thi. d~y I wonki ask yon to 8o down and tnlk Io N"tck WnrJlz and ask
him wh~l~. ~. ~ot h~ fllink~ th~ ~ im~Dv~l]~ i~ w~l~ twi~ ~ ~ ~ ID ~ tn Ht~ ~ I
Fsrms, they Just use the fond to g~ brick and f~'th in front of ~im-
yon live in s cul-de-sac nnd even if you live in a cul-d~-snc, sometimes thn~ nrc a f~w peopi~ that use that,
though it goes nowhere but _coming back to th~ qts~i~xc I mean it seems to me the~'s a good ~ ~
Why isn't there some sort of scale involved in thnt~
Don Ashworth: Well
nei~l~bood m~in~ lmean we 12d m~i~ f~ at k~ a moth m flfl~ md wire w~ mired ~t k fl~ POl~
ngreement on the peopl~ out the~ ttmt th~ wns afnir nnd eqn~h~e wn~ to do it.
City Council ~g - October 25, 1993
Councilman Wing: I think that's true but I think Mark's position...
Councilman Senn: I'll get Into it more later because I don't see a big problem with $760.00 and I'll tell you
why later but to me that's an ultimate fairness question that I think needs to pass you know, the mustard ao to
speak and I don't think it does the way we've done it. And the fact that everyone's talking around a direct
nnswer to the question tells me thnt because I haven't heard anybody give a direct nnswer to the question.
Bill Engelhardt: You're ri~t. It could have been done that way. There's no question about it, it could have
been done. It was not defined that way through the public ~ process.
Mayor Chmiel: Anyone else?
Lowell Carlson: One other thins.
Mayor Chmiel: One more time Lowen. We've got a few more public hearings.
Lowell Carlson: On these people that use this parkway...befo~ the whole thing stnrted is that 3 people with
baby buggies nnd kids, 3 side by side. There's a car coming. He's got to stop. Wait for them to move out of
the way. And it hasn't ended now. My wife just mentioned that I just about killed a guy 2 days ngo. I've lived
there ~0 some years and I've never come that close to hitting nnyhody or having an accident of any sorc..I was
coming with my Iruck and these guys we~ potting the mailboxes up and had, on the left hand side of the road
they had thcir cars facing the opposite direction aiong the curb. I was coming with the truck and I had me
cmw. rete. Another car was coming this way and this skater going right down the middle of_and I don't know ff
he went to sleep on those skates or what. But he got up within from here to that counter and he was, I was
slamming the brakes for all they were worth and he took one jump and he Jumped about 4 foot off to one side
and X pointed to thc walkway and of course I wasn't in a very good mood and I stopped thc track. And in thc...
I got a little carried away and I'm sure that, I knew him. I've worked for him. A real nice neighbor besides but
X come unglucd with this pmtway deal. And something, you know when you talk about when we first maned
this thins how accidents you know. How it's proven to help and thesc kids and so on and so forth. Well
a...walkway over there. It's too muddy. And when I got done with this Buy he said well there's too many
leaves up there. I can't roller on thc leaves. Well here nor there fellows. Whatev~. But there is a cop sitting
down there all thc time ~g speed but I don't know what you'r~ going to do about the rest of it.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Anyone else?
Lisa Braff: Just something real quick. I think ~ reason that thc wal-way's dirty, he just needs to do the tail
end cleaning up and everything but now that thc parkway is widened and it's smooth and it's ~reat, the cars are
rcally clipping along and the_Is there going to be more police cars? Stop lights? Street bumps?
Councilman Wing: Let mc address that...tho speed is no different than it was before and thc~ are no
complaints. The cars have been risht there...l just want you to know that because I've taken that on personally.
Lisa Braff: Okay. Well, you live on it.
Councilman Wing: ...that ar~ being checked...
Lisa Braff: Well I hope so.
28
May~rChmie, l: Anyom~l~? If smins none, canlimv~amotimtocloseth~Imblic~
Councilwoman Dockendorr moved, ~ ~ ~ to dine tbe publk balrtn8. All voted in
hvoF nd the motion cra*fled. The publh: hem4n~ wm cimed.
Mason: I'm ready if you're not,
Councilman Wing: I'll So last.
Councilman W'ms: I'm dying to.
that the city does hve a cost in carryi~ thnt mmmY. Immnwe'minyingimermma~ AndltMnk
these 1o~ on those traits when ~ are develnped so. And Ym know we hve the ntility to clmr~ ~ m 3~
sidel'm ~ townrdsontha~issu~. Otbu'thsn tfmtl ~thlnkw~havctoloo~th~boalscc~s. l:~l'~t
AcreL X'mnotcmninttmtthnttmbee~~addressed. Andhstlylwnnttocmnl~immtBill, you've
~shly. Xt's been a pnin in the ~ from the very sun't nnd I crime in halfvmy nnd tt's been over n Y~nr
nnd a half that this issue's been d~alt with so, we an know it wns a touflh me~ 'Fnnt's nil th~ cmnmems I hve
Co~m~lmml lVJfl~}iE Real quick. Vt~ith ~ ~ If' ~ ~ 12 lots, 12 Ixdldable lots. They're only
chm~foFonc. 'l'n~ se, llofftJmt~in3 y1~ilJ, whopRyslh~~ Tl~~m~~~
they turn it nmund and insure thnt th~ ~ PltY~ thnt {x}~
29
if I own 5 acres and somebody else owns 1 acres, it seems to mc if a road's going by it, if I own thc $ acres, I
should maybe be paying more than thc person who owns the 1. Of course then the flip side of that is, you can
sell off that properly when you choose and the developer pays all the interest on it anyway. So I'm not real sure
where all that concerns come' from. With that in mind I think the $760.00 is a real steal. Yeah, the only other
thing is I concur with Colleen on two things. I want to take a look at that access. On the otber hand, I don't
want the city to spend a whole lot more money taking care of it and I don't want anyone else's property any
more tom up tlum it's already been. And I agree. Bill, I've given you some pot shots on this one but you've
earned your money on iL Thanks. However this works ouL I'm done.
Councilman Scrm: I have to come at this issue I think from really two different sides. You know
through the lVrmutes from last meeting and also listening to the comments tonight, I really don't hear a lot of
people objecling per se to thc amount of money, you know the cost of the unit per se. I think what I hear is a
lot of, how would I say. A lot of underlying questions and probably the biggest underlying question is the one
we've been dealing with for almost il years which is, how would I say tho, I don't know Murphy*s Law
principle relating to this project. Whatever could go wrong, will go wrong. And I think it's built up a real sense
of frustration overall A good time to show it is when assessment time comes out. You know out of nil
honesty, I live over off TH 101 and if somebody came to me nmi I think came to most of my ne/ghbors nmi said
that TH 101 was being improved and we'd get curb and gutm' and sewer sad n bike trail and pay $760.00, most
of us would turn cartwheels. And say start tomorrow, So from a cost basis, you know to me it's real hard to
look negatively nt the dollars we're talking nbout. Ttth is the first assessment pwject I've ever heard of where
we've struggled to make sure we had people paying 20% of thc as~".~sment. At least that I'm aware of. And
not only in this city but other cities. U~mlly it's substantially more than 20% but the homeowners are
paying for it. $o on a pure equity basis as it relates to overall dollar cost, personally I can't break down that
argument and do anything other than say it's fab. A number of the other issues that have been raised and
~, I look at and I try to base decisions more on what, kind of what's I'm going to say conunon sense
about, maybe it's too late on this one and I wasn't around when this one first started but to me there ought to be
a delineation or a differentiation between people who live on side streets and people who live directly on the
roadway. Because there is that, how would I say assessment upon assessment nPlnxmch. And it's a definite. I
mean that's not something we're guessing's going to happen. We know it's going to ~. And I think that
somehow that ought to be dealt with and I guess if it even could be here, I'd like to see it but it may be too late
for that. As far ns the interest rate goes, you know it seems to me all I've really heard over interest rates is a lot
of confusion due to very poor semantics. I mean really what we're _mlt-i,g nhout is everybody paying for one
assessment and I think that's quite fair. What we're talking about doing is deferring the payment of ~
interest. And I guess I'm going to underline payment of accrued interest. That's what we're tnndn~ nbout.
We're not tnlbi~ about deferring assessments. We're not mlbing about deferring the interest 'l'nose are
im~ terms and I think sometimes we get locked up in semantics and that's where a lot of the
misinterpretation occurs. And I don't think it's unfair to defer the payment of the aoctmd interest becatme ns
that's being deferred, that land is increasing in value and that pwpav/owner can sell it for more money later to
a developer and yes, the developer should come in and pay the carrying costs associated with that. But _n~i~ I
don't think out of faitm, ss we should pennlize the existing hndowner bec__-~o_ae personally I like to see the large
parceh say and I'd love to see them stay ns long ns they will. I have one and I hope it stays that way forever.
The issue of punch list items. That goes back to I guess my original point. I mean that's a real underlying sore
point on this whole project is just all the problems _thn_t have occurred on it. The fnct that it's still not a finished
project and here we're asking people to dish out money. And I have to really sym~ with the people on
that point and I've said, I think we've paid out too much money already on it and I think we've paid off too
much money in ndvance of the work that is being done, I think the contractors or some of the subcontracters are
3O
City Conncil Meeting - October'25, 1993
rm~llyin acomfortnblcposition. Theydcn'tlmvetoworryabout~~~sodntahighen'Irice. AndI
think ~ ~ ~ ~~ ~t m ~ m ~ ~ ~~~ ~~t ~ ~ Imenn
he's figm~ _thAt_ in in th~ first place, But wh~ yon end up wifh a w~ sem(m h*lm thlt en~ cvery~ing goes
pay a little more, sometimes you lmy a Httle Into. But I think we really ought to slart putting tbo~ psa~trman~
growing serum or ~ the IzlL I think tint's ~lK-ulas and I th~nt w~ ought to do ov~n_.o wo can
the encl next time. I guess fiat's bnsically ~ ~
choose to hanS onto it for long pedods of time, which I would like Io do.
Roger Knutson: ..~ little ~ ~ oonsolal~n. If yon hang cmto ymn' prolmty for 31 yenrs, th~ ~
~tgoesnwny. Xf you it's been ~ for 30 years, nfln'30yearsitjmt~. Notmsmypoo~
own thc prolm~ for 30 years. Or if the ~ isn't ~ by 3, 4 or 5 gnm'aliom..
~ W'ms: I think that's trnly a con~talion...
Councilnm Senn: Dick csn I offer an AnAlly, tO ~ ~ yOU Out on th~
money, lsitpaying fcr the msemnem now in cash. Nothavingthointerosta~justsitnplysmlin~mymonoy
of interest, whi~ it is in tochy's mmtz~ and _th~_'s n set tat~ whlch ts mmtlmr nice thins. X mmn if inlm~t
ralcsarc back~ m 14~or 15~ inafew ymn~ yuu know it ~ an oxcelleminmrestmm. Tomcat, it
com~s ba~ to th~ faim~ and commm mm~ ~ and I mdl~ hav~ a bard ti~ pokin8 a bolo ~ ~
myins, you know...
31
City Council ~g - October 25, 1993
Councilman Wing: ...that was the.way he chc~e to.
Councilman Senn: No, I contend he will get mote cash in the end bex. ause over those 15 yeats his property is
going to continue to evaluate evnT year. And we're helping to finnnee that evaluation.
Don Ashworth: And another way to look at it is, just what has happened in the past. We put deferred
assessments ou thc Mel and Frank Kurver pwperty when their mother was alive, and those were a relatively
larse amount. But it wasn't that $8,000.00 assessment that made the difference as to whether or not they ended
property ,_hat's worth a lot of money and quite truthfully this $7,000.00 assessment and the pomlfial of 30%
interest after 5 years is not going to be the driving force in whether or not she se. lis that or keeps it green. I
mean in comtnc, isou to that overall value, this is just a very small amount.
Councilman Senn: I keep asking myself, where you guys were about 15 years n~o when I had to pay a
$6,000.00 or $7,000.00 assessment on my house. When they brousht in water and sewer and street.
Council~m Wing: I paid $9,000.00.
Mayor Chmicl: I can top you. I paid 10. And that's Irue, You're right. Because over a 10 year period we got
the $10,000.00 assessment plus we also had to hook up the water nmi sewer as I mentioned before.
Councilman Wing: ...going along with Den's. I think we've la~tected Mn. Hallgren and thc other parcels as
much as we possibly can...because I know we've gone through this before.
Mayor Chmiel: And I don't think I've got much more to offer to this because I think ev~g's been
discussed. And everyone I think is prelected to a certain point but the thing all boils down to, is ff we ever have
to go throu~ it ri?iq, we'd better go throul~ it a little better than what we did this past time, I don't think we
can do it any better as far as the total dollar assessment is concerned, per unit. But nonetheless, I think we learn
as we go through the process and unfortunately the other people ate going to pay for it just liire_, we nil had our
own assessments to pay for at one given time or another. So with that I would like to have an approval for the
assessments levied for the Minnewashta Parkway Improvement Project ~0-15 with the unpaid batance of said
assessments to be paid over the 8 year period, and anything you might like to add to that.
Councilman Senn: I'll move approval but I would reatly, and I don't think it's really al~ to ma~ it pert .
of the motion but I think it's really impommt tlmt we look at our nssessment policy. I mean I think the thing
that's saving us here from the fairness and equity test is the fact that we've got a lot of State Aid go into this
project and it's bringing the overall dollar amount down to something that's very reasonable. Boy I tell you
what, ff wc had one of these that wasn't, I tell you. I'd be sitting out in the crowd next to those people who
were complaining about doubling up on assessments on side streets venus being on main streets, you know and
that sort of _thing and I think our policy really needs to look at that and address it and I don't know how to say
that more vocally or wlmtever, so I'm going to say it that way but move approval as we've 8or this one.
Councilman W'mg: And I'll second. I think every time we've done one of these things since I've been here,
DOn has reviewed that policy and justified it fully to the point where I simply said, huh. I'm very comfortable
with this. With the exception of thc area assessment with the side street. That I think is sl~ifi~.~n.~ that if it
occurs again, I would clearly want to look at differently. Again, the,..so I'll second that.
32
city Counc~ Mee~ - octo~ ~, 19~
levied for the Minnt. wmhta Parkway Improvement ~ f~-Lq with the unimid bainnce of smd
msessmems to be paid ova' the 8 yen' perh~ All voted in hvtr and the notion nrT4ul mmnlntmiy.
Bill Engeihnrdt: My und~mnnding is w~ shonld look at that boat lannch nnd I~et a pice ,nd con~ brick to the
Councilwoman ~ Or more just ~, I menn I'd li~ to mdly__~U__ it's ~y mmal~ now
nnd it wns usabl~ befefehand. I'd really mil,- m know if w~ are smndmw lhble for that
Bill Engellmrdt: We'll see If we clm ip~t it fixed.
I'd like to see it in black ~ ~. What ~y is the ~)~ figure, lt'snotcimr.
Councilmnn Senn: Don d~dt wilh thnt I thought in ~Inltmst~ to our moron and ~tmt wns the 6% was 5 yents
nt 6'~ eq~mlly 30%.
Jo Ann ~ My assemnent is over $12.000~.
BtU ~sellu~ 16 unin. yeah.
33
City Council Meeting - Octob~ 25, 1993
Don Ashworth: Oh I'm sorry. I thought you had said 11.
Bill Engelhardt~ No, she Ins 11.5 acres for 16 units.
Cmmcilmnn Senn: Let me see ff I could help you out. If I'm tnking your question right. What you're I~oing to
pay to start with is $760.00.
Jo Ann Hallgren: Right.
Councilman Senn: Okay. And you're not going to pay any mom. Okay.
Jo Ann ~nllgren: Well I don't have all that cash laying around that I can.
Councilman Senn: No, I un~d Itmt but I'm just saying now, as fin' ns interest accrual goes, if you have
$20,0(X).00 going forward that you'r~ not going to pay and if it's at 6%, okay that's going to basically accrue
about $1,200.00 per year in interest, if my math's right. So I mean you're going to be adding on $1,200.00 per
year in inte, tv~ accrual to that principal amount of $20J300.00. Now, ultimately when you sell the ~ okay
and it's d~veloped, that person will have to pay that.
Jo Ann I-lallgren: I don't intend to sell it to a develoIxn'.
Councilman Senn: Okay, if you keep it 30 years ma'am, you aren't going to pay a cent of it.
Jo Ann Hallgren: I intend to sell it to a single person. Just one n~ideat. What hap~ns then?
Councilman Senn: If the ~ isn't developed, as I undamand it, that assessment still goes away after 30
years. Well, what I'm saying is that nobody's getting hung.
Jo Ann I-Iallgren: If I sell, I can't sell without getting paying my special assessments.
Councilm~ Senn: No. That's not tree. Not mm. You can negotiate.
Roger Knutson: Your lender may require it. Or some mortgage companies may require it. The City does not
require it. You can sell your ~ and the spec~ assessments can just be assumed.
Councilman Wing: ..,accrue, there's no question about it.
Mayor Chmiel: And I respect your position as to what you're going through but I have seen over the past 5
years people coming in hem and saying I am not selling and within a short period of time, it's being sold.
Unfortunately those kinds of things happen and one of the nutjor concerns that we had with this whole project
was that we didn't force anyone off their property. Because I have seen that happen and I don't want to see it
happen here. So thank you. Thank you for coming.
34
l~LIC HEARING ON FEASIBILITY ~'I~DY FOR ~'l~ ~ AND DRAINAGE IMPRQ ,V~blENTS TO
TANADOONA DRIVE AND DOOW0~D R~AD~ PROJECT 93~27.
someofthescconccans. Hav~ftnother~ma~ng. R~]~the~l_hyltndyl~dlzJn~Jtl~l:kto
Council tl~ why...
Mayor Cluniel: Okay, I ~ ~ a m(Xi~ to cancel th~ Imblic heming.
C, ogncibnn Mason moved, CouncHwonmn DockeBdm~ mcomkd to mnat tim pubk hem'tnf em ~
in hvor md the mott0m cm'rkd.
~ONSmER A RF.~OL~ON OF INTENT I~)R THE I~0POSED it:STABI...I~ QF
ORGAN! ,7.J~n COLLECTION O,F SOLm W~ IN Tn~ (~ITY QF f~l~.
Nme Ad~lr~
~ar~ Lo~
John S~ Carv~ County
Dean Job _tmon
David & Cindy Rouse
Linda Scott and Sue ~
Jack~
Jerry Pmdscn
Hans Skallc
Uli Sacc. het
L(mda Blawn
Fmn J. l-F. dc
John & Anna Sief~
Pa~ & Pu~ x-hrfison
was~ Manasem~
413 Del Rio ~
731 Vicu~in Drive
110901 Yon HnUen Ch~, Clmska
RSC
6660 Lores Trm'l
1690 Knehmn Circ~
7570 Omym Curve
780 Santn ¥~ru Drive
7190 Ftmt~ Tmfl
7100 Derby Drive
7061 Derby Drive
6331 Near MounUdn Blvd.
Admiml Waste
35
City Council Meeting -October. 2$, 1993
Dick Nelson
Russ & Oinny Hamilton
Tom Moline
Bill Swearengin
Wilt~ Johnson
Dave
1070 Lyman Court
8019 Cheyenne Spur
BNI
52~00mska Roacl
1650 West 63rd Street
6870 Minnewashta Parkway
Maycs' Chmiel: I'll open that public hearing up at this partic, lsr time. PauL
Paul Kmuss: Mr. Mayor. This crisinally mm'ted last spring as a concern that was brought to you by the City
Enginee~ relative to si~ mad damage that appears to be stemming from having overnight Wash h~.nn~
trucks using city streets that weren't designed for that pttrpose. It's clear that we have 6 nctive haulers in the
conununity and many streets, most streets have multiple haulers on them. When the engineer lmmsht this
concern farwnrd to you there was some bnckl~round informatiou provided. Basically indicating that the State has
provided the two phase process that allows our conummity to look nt orgnnized collection. The city went out and
retained Dean Johnson of ~ Strategy ~n to work with the city on a phase I study for orgnnized
r~ back their recommen~_n~_fimm to you. Essentially they found that ~ collection seems to have a lot
of merit and for a lot of different reasons nnd they're recommending that you proceed with the Phase 2 study. I
no proposal on the table that specifically says tiffs is how it's going to .operate because right now nobody renlly
knows. There's a variety of stratesi~ that have been looked at. Some are be~s recommended for furth~ study
and that's whnt's being brought forward tonighL With that I'd tike to turn the meeting over to Dean Johnson
nnd he can give you an overview of the findings and conclusions.
Mnym' Chmicl: Good, thank you.
Dean Johnson: Thank you PauL Mr. Mayor, members of the CouncH. As Paul mentioned, it was nc'pmlly 5
months ago this evening that the Council adopted a resolution of an intent to evaluate the feasibility of orlpmized
collection in thc city of Chanhassen. As Paul mentioned, we followed the Slate process which prescribes a two
phased approach I~ evaluating ~ collecticm. The first phase involved the planning process. The planning
period to which we evaluated the existing ccmditions of thc open collection system in thc city. We conducted
four different surveys durin8 the process. One a haulers survey to look at existing sorvices.., and orsanized
collection survey of communities throughout the Twin Cities. Tnoro are approximately 40 which have ~
collection at this time. We did a survey of a comparable number of cities with open collection pretty much
evenly spread throughout the: 7 county ama and we completed a random phone survey of residents in the
impacts of collection in general. Conducted 5 different meetings which involved the organized study. We
invited the lmulers ns well ns notices to the general public. And on Septembe~ 21st presented a fired report
which included findings nnd recommendations which have been mimmafized in a cover sheet in your
memcrandum. The findings from thc study, Uti briefly touch through these for the benefit of ~he andience,
include there currently is as runny as (5 solid waste collection vehicles and 6 recycling vehicles can be seen
scrvins existing neil~dm~oods currently in the city of Chap~.~en each week. Certainly there are IpubnSe cans
or x~ecyclins bins present u'troul~out the community on any given weekday in the community. Thc cun'ent open
system results in appro~y 5 to 6 times the necessary mileage of heavier vehicles on city streets in a given
week as compared to c~sanized collection. A typical solid waste collection vehicle and recycling vehicle
meeting weight restrictions have a combined cumulative effect on residentln~ pavement as nl~mximately 1,650
36
soUd wn~ coHccti(~ liceflses with tl~ cnn~nt maxJmnm of 6. With a ~]~g ~ ~ ~ my ~ ~t
nrmngements for ~ ~ with existi~ licensed ~ Ve~'y Ixie~ Fd ii~ tn comment on whnt
nnd..~~y go to each hauler treed on a 1994 or 1993 ievel~ acconnts bnt be bnsed on some sat ~ a
might be able to answer any questions you may hve, Wtth ~ I ~ mm it back to th~ Council
you livc within thccity. Orboth. Aflsnid, thieisapublic~
Mike~: MynnmeisMik~~. Iamth~DivisionPtesidmtf~rWasteManagem~andldo
aMm:ciate the pmce~ so far. I think ~ ~s ~ ~ ~ ~'~~ ~ m ~ ~ ~ ~ ~s
whatl'dliketodotodty, lunda~tndthst~i~issimplyapublicheafinssndyouwnnttolmn,~ts. In
Chanhanen we're a rtlafively small hnlez. We don't hav~ a lot of hmn~ he~ in Chanhassen but (R)vimsly
we'reifltennyother~. Weli~toseeourhminmsrowandChantmsenisagrowin~~~. We
O~uahout ~ who~ ~ what rm very c(nmn~ about t, to ma~ sure ~.~_ we ~y ~ ~
37
City Council Meetin8 - October 25, 1993
lot of different ways for it to be. When we talk about 40 people, 40 communities with or?nimbi collection.
That doesn't mean they're all the same. They aH have different types of organized collections and specifically
what I'm concerned about as we move ahe2d with this is not only limiting my opportunity to grow. Limiting
my customer's nnd potential customer's freedom of choice. And then specifically the one option that I know is
is out there which is a negotiated contract. I think that's the proper term. The bottom line is that in my opinion
it's a nmU. er of thc haulers get together, they guess along with the city in sitting down and trying to figure out a
price nnd I perso~y would like to see you continue to have competition in yom' system nnd I uplweciate Dean's
comment about who's term numage~ com~ was. If that's a system where there truly is competition,
that's something that I, myself and my cmnpany would consider. But a noge~iated type ~mtltm is something
I'm not comf~ with. Thank you.
Mayor Chmicl: Good. Thanks ]vfike. Is there anyone else7
Sue ~: Sue Morgan from 4031 Kings Road. I guess being a resident and consumer and...~ to mc
service is more important than...but it's impommt I think in this process to take into Con~d__~n_ti_'nn what
resident's needs arc and I don't think a survey of 80 residents in the Chanhassen area is n good sesment to get
feedback from. I think that it would be importnnt in a survey to find out through the questions people
specifically on what their needs arc as far as waste collection pick-up. I know persmudl¥ we use BFI and
collect within our lptrage. So I don't have to haul my Iptrhage out onto the curb. They pick it up d~cfly
my garage. And to me that's impommt nnd I'm willing to pny for that. I wouldn't necessarily want a hauler
that's cheaper and then I'd have to haul my refuse to the sidewalk and have them pick it up, Just be~_ n~- they're
cheaper. I'd like to know also how the system will be evalualcd. How often it would be evaluated if we did run
into...What would be the procedure for filing a complaint if the garbage isn't picked up on time or ff it's
all over the sidewnltr or whatever. And exactly what the cost will be so that I ns a resident can ma~ softie
comparisons with my current service. Also being a homeowner and being head of a household, it's nice to have
control over something. Some things just kind of nm like clockw~ You don't have to worry about them.
And the garbage collection, the service I've had with Woodh,tre has been very good and I'd hate to see, I'd hate
to lose...
lv'myor Chrnicl: Good, thanks Sue.
Hans Skallc: My name is Hans Skallc. I live at 780 Santa Vera Drive and I also concluded the same opinion as
the previous speaker. I definitely like to have a say in...They have excellent service with Woodl~lre Sanitation
and I...to continue in the same manner we have... We have been living here for 3 years now and I have...Thank
you very much.
Chris Fulbrlght: Good evening. I'm Chris Fulbright with .4-9_?,xl West Sapit__ndon and earlier a resident eluded
to the fact that thc poll of 80 people was a relatively small survey. Two months ago Aagard West did a survey
of it's own customer within the city of Chanhassen. I have 350 of their responses right here which were
presented to the Recy~g Committee 2 months ngo and verified by Jo Ann Olsen for their authenticity. I ~
I would like to share some of the hishlights of this survey and offer to the Council, if they're in~. We
asked 8 basic questions, if they were intea~ted. I want to highlight two of the questions. In the issue of how
strongly do you feel about wanting one hauler in your neighborhood. 5% of the residents were adamant that
they only wanted one hauler in the neighbodlcxxL On the question of I want a choice, 90~ were ndnnumt that
they wanted to retain their choice. I'm a little dismayed that this did not end up in the final relX~ This
relXeSonts a little over 10% of your popula~n in the city of Chanhassen and they've spoken quit~ clearly here I
think. As a hauler of course you know I'm not in favor of this organized plan but I think here's the
38
Councilmnn Mason: If l can make a quick cetmnent. Its~.dwithyoumthephnlequ~awhJl~qoOub.
I'm glad to see Itmt Angnrd West did _dm_,_ nnd I'm gl~d to see that nil the cmriam are getting ~ k ~ I
you concerned nbout dam~e to the roads. I mean I'm not raying I'm taki~ Iha: ~ but I'm ho[/~
smswenmsin: x*nspeaktothntquemim~ Binsweamnsin, tZ.qOChadm~ lwam'tsoinstospmk
tonight lint I do have service with Aagmd W~ ~ ~ f~ a nnmber ~ ~ ~ ~ m ~ ~ ~
that they Imu~t I don't know if I cmnpleted your ~ b~ I did sm~d the Council n letter atSwosima~y 6
nmnths nSo and I'd like that to becotne ~ ~ ~ ~ if you would plens~ ~ t~ mn'vk~ Myend
impormntrhnn thisIbelic, ve. Iwouldm~-celnpetMm. I'msntisftedwithwhntwelmv~. Mymnin~is
the recycling. I have l0 ~ mhd I which them emsry wm~t cnn'y out ft bn8 of cans, 7 ~ nnd a
more ~t u) have ~ a ~ r~-ycling m cans and pntx~
Dram John _~:m: Every other week would be prohbly ~
staff tluowins thinp out. Unformn_ ~Jy it becomes people don't recycle became they don't mnmmber when nnd
you're nbsolut~ right. It's n lroblem but wht we've heard fiun canto]trim and frmn coRecurs is peclle
don't recycle as much ff it's not available ~kly, unRnmna~y.
Bin Sv~mgin: ! do it vohmtm~y md I oaly ~ when my prtmge can fins up with bottles or with tin
cans or with newspapert The uuck simply doem't stop whm I don't have miythins out tbmt
39
City Cotmcil Meeting - October 25, 1993
have gotten 11% or 120 responses back. Okay. That's in one day that people hav~ had a chance to respond to
it. I'm going to nd__dress just a couple more issues he~. Price between open and organized collection. You're
really t~O~ng apples to oranges hero. The service levels are set by contract nmi these service levels by the
contract are limiting to bnnlers. We're used to responding in a competition manner much more quickly than ff it
was set by contract and so when I stated to the commi~ that service levels suffer, they automntic, nlly meant
that the haulers weren't doing the/r job. No, they are doing the job. They're going by the contract but we can't
respmd very quickly to that. And it limits us. When you look at price orlpmized collection cities, one of the
things that's not readily apparent is what are the services that are cut out of thaC Does it include ynrd waste and
soforth. As far as the roads go and tbe weight remictions. It was stated in the report that virtually all the
vehicles exceed the mad limits during the spring weight restriction time. I do rake, I don't ngree with that. Last
spring we had a ~g between the haulers and the city. Charles was there. Two years hie we tented a small
track from St. Louis just to bring into Chanhassen. We were nble to purchase nnother one. Now I have two
more coming on the way to use in cities such ss this which are very sensitive to road conditions. Other haulers
also have adapted their lumling schedules or whatever to bring small mr..ks in to go easier en the roads. It's a
capital improvement. It doesn't happen overnight. But we're working with the system. ! kept my larger tracks
on the !} ton roads, l told them don't fill the thing up. Pill it half full so we are trying to work with the city on
this. One more point I want to bring up is super fund law. Currently we hn,! fur our residents. Under super
fund law, as it stands now, nnd this is my ~ding of it. I'm not legnl expert but we have asked questions
of the expem. They say number one, responsi~ty in a clean-up or liability situation is the owner operator.
liability under this. If you designate the waste to a certain site, something happens. What is the lial~. With
the questions we asked, the linhility is there whether you designate or don't designate. By signing the contract
you nre entering the garba/e business and hence we no longer haul for the residents. We hanl for the city.
Thank you.
Diane Harberts: Diane Harberts, 7190 Frontier Trail. I support open bn,ling. When you talked comments with
regard to the weight restrictions. Is it just the gnrha/e trucks or is it the entire collection of vehicles of similar
size on the road such as school buses, such as public buses, such as semi's. I just seen pull down Couiter to
Target tonight so I guess I would just suggest that you look at the entire picture. Is it Just gnrb~e or is it maybe
a whole collection. You ~__nlb nbout performance stnndards. The only way you're going to be able to really
identify pedormance standards is if you also have a way of monitoring them. Does th~ fatl then into the realm
of the city to a sense get into the garbage business7 I'm a firm believer that I think there's an ~ he~
for the Council to maybe share the/r values or their vision in terms of what they'd like to achieve for the
community. Maybe give that to the expau. The gnrhage collectors. See what kind of solution they can
provide. They nre the experts. They've been in the field. I don't think it's app~ at this point for the city
to ~t that involved with the Iptrbaee but I do think it's nl~ for you as a Council, as our ccmmtmity
leaders to set the vision in tmns of what kind of objectives you're trying to achieve here. But leave it to the
experts to come up with solutions. If they aren't able to in a sense meet your values or your vision fur the dty,
then it may be more spproptia~ for the city to get more involved. I'd like to maybe just remind the Council
that to me the im~ of a community is the partnership between the residences and the bushy. And as
my community leaders I look for you to try and make those type of lumaerships stronger. I look at nny gnrbnge
hauler, if it's 1 or 6. The same as having store frcnt in the community of Clum and I think Chanhassen
certninly welcomes .the business community into the city because of what it lxovides to us. Be it you know...
donations st the time of wintm/est or whatever, I think there's a real parmetship there that you certainly don't
want to in a sense sever because it is very, I think the economic environment is certainly frnglle at this point so
we ce~tinly have to keep our docr open. And welcome all that are in~ in providing that community
se~'vic, e, doing business in Chanhsssen. I ~ it's important that we maintain our choice. I personally nm
served by BNI and it's not a m~,~ of money. In my ~ it's lhe day as well as the level of sewrice ~hsr I
receive. Those are what's impcrtmt to me to my lifestyle. $oaslmid, in comalmioa l spMeciate the time that
thetr wnste Io a ~ facility rather limn ~y Io a lnndfllL And I've disctmed ad~ wtth Panl and some of
landfill cnly as a last nm~ 'I'ne Cmmty could lose gtmt -f~-'nE ~ ~ ~ an city ~ th~ tho
rather tium ~uandered in hmdfih and they slmuid be used as a ~iven :esmm:e Io co~ ~r m an rurallY-
Co~ilmnnW'm8: ..Aoesthnte~isttoday? lsthatavnrtnl~?...costtodothaL Lnndf~ is kind of ~tting lo be
a dirty wcrd. Is that processi~ av~h~?
Cnver County. Howovn' tha~ a'~ cost coo:ans. 'l'nn~'s po~mtial, I don't wnnt Io say timm's a iinbiH~ issue
bnt there's a liability discussion. ~re's ~ m ~ of how the feds review consUnint of unde.
standpoint itmay be mn-itodom buton the other hnnd tham's a ~ ~ ~ ~ n~ nmcenml ~ isn't nn
them.
Coun~ihu~ Win~: wen, ff we wnnt m visimm'y.
I fl~mk f~ all thc valued ~ l'm curmmly suvictng in Chanhasmm, it'd be a major dissppoinlm~ ftr mo
41
City Council Mee.,~g - October' 25, 1993
unbelievable and we do a large number of re~sidenm in Clmntmssen. And I just, I'm basically open to the fact of,
I'm very thankful. Don, yourself had said that no, we're not trying to mn anybody out of business and we being
the smaller business pcrson in this industry today, it's tougher and tougher an the time.' And I appreciat~ that
the city is willins, if they lo 'ahead with organized, to work with the existing haulers. ~ it. Thank you.
Tim Mathtm: My name is Tim Mathnn here for R & W Roll off and Sanimfion. I just wanted to speak ~ for
the smaller hauler and hopefully we have a fair chance of things too. And to say that having wodmd with some
of the hinders over tho years, therc's not a one that l~um't confomied to the city's wishes as far as finding the
smaller Irucks and lightening the loads a little bit the city's demands and wishes. So open hauUng's the flBht
way to ~o.
Willard Johnson: Wiilm~d Johnson, 1660 West 63rd. I'm...to open haulin8. I have Woodlake and the prices are
right and I feel...If they don't do the job, I can always complain to somebody...
Dave He-~__J.: Dave p~als; 6870 kfinnewashta Parkway. I had a question for Mr. Johnson here. What are the
three disadvantages of orggitzed hauling7 That's what bothers me about your relxa'c When I was young I used
to follow those studies. I thought this is thc only way to go. Now I look at it and I don't believe studies when
they don't tell me the pros and cons. There's got to be disadvantages and when they don't do grot in a study, I
feel that it's too one sided and I don't... Then I am, I don't want to see our haulers controlled and I hem' the, se
fellows talk and my priorities arc the environment, cost and convenience. And right now I'm getting, I had to
look a long time to find thc fight hauler but he serves my ~ and I'm very Imppy with them. And I hear
tsdk about thc cnvironmcnt, thc way it's organized ha. ling we can do these things. I don't beUcve that we have
to 8o to organized haulin8 to do better on the environment. I think there's many ways our haulers are willin8 to
work with us, or whoever and we can Sot tho same thing done. It isn't a one sided issue. And then one of the
thtnss on organized. You didn't talk about cost at all. That money's comin8 out of my pocket and when I have
competition, I think I have some control over that. But when I'm told thcsc arc the few that you can look at,
that competition's sone and I can sce the cost going up. So I've just Sot to support the free enteaTrise system.
Tim Swietzen My name is Tim Swletzer. I'm a resident of Minne~ Parkway. I also am the owner of
Aagard West and I also own TBS Carver Recycling Center. I wanted to talk just a minute about recycling.
We've heard a lot about volume. I'm sure you're going to hear more. I'm pretty imprcased with what I hear so
far. You've got a big decision ahead of you. It's not going to be easy. Recycling is a big responsibility that a
lot of people don't want to bear the cost of. The County had a challenge with taking on the responsibility of
recycling with Carver County here and for a couple of years of handling it themselves decided it was a little bit
more work than they cared to deal with and they put out a request for proposals to manage thc recychbles. I put
in a bid for that request and it was to build a building and we built that in Nm'wood. And it was to handle and
manage a recycling...be available to the public to accept recyclin8 matm-hfls from all residents and any imulers
that choose to use thc facility. They understand that in order to make this work it's sc/ns to take some subsidy.
We made a financial commimient to make this happen on a 5 year agreemenL I bid this $ year manas~ of
business I have 3 recycling Irucks that cover the community here. A large part of my business counts on
receiving material. Recycling is not a profitable business. It takes a lot of effort to mat?. it 8o. I feel that part
of your decision here has sort of an ecosystem to it if you will If you arc ,,llri,~g about pulling or mmovin8 a
portion of my recycling stream, which I will have no control over, that win have an effecc A cause and effect.
If I'm barely making ends meet now running a recycling center, and I lose all of my Chanhassea recycling
material which keeps me afloat, there is an effect that it may be far beyond what we're looking at and talking
about fight here.. I'm mliring about just x~cyclin8. If an organized collection system is developed and I do not
42
City Council Meeting - October 25, 1993
hnvc n part in it, which is not clmlr at this po~ In time wheds~ I will be a pm ~ ~ m ~ ~ ~ my
livelihood. It affects my business as n hanler nmi it nffecls my recycling center. And it puts my recycling center
in a very pmcarimm nnnn,~in~ potion. And I still lmve to Imy my anessmont mi MTmnewashta lqukway so.
Jolm$iegfiied: Mytu~eisJoim$~ I'maCarver~~. TheCmmtyBonrd~m
takea a ~ on wtum~ it ~ wpni,~ hndtns ~f hOC Xt's ~ dmt is ctmlple~y up to the
compost~ or u~'li~d tn some oth~ manner ns oppes~ to ~. Now we mc looking at a subsidy ns
KcvinTrisc Mr. Maym',membcrsofC2nmciL Mypnm,--isKevinTt'ista~Iliveat3851Smslfm~Rid~n_~
most of you know that I also wm:k for BFL I guess I~ hanicrs tn thc indnstry aimgetila' lmv~ _p~_ ny come up to
amonnt of time that it's tnken tofix dmt fond but wlien you staxt looking nt ipttbnge trucks ~ ~ ~
versus the dump mw. ks and the different heavy 'eqnipnent thnt's out them, you'll find thnt there's probnbly & lot
c~ 3 mw. ks, you're genentlly woddng wtth higher ~~ so ~ there's not a cost differentiaL
43
City Council ~g - October 2~, 19~3
Kcvin Trist: It's balancing.
May~ Chmici: It's nice to know that YOU. moved ba~k to Chanhassen from Eden Prairie.
Ginny Hamilton: Hi, I'm Ginny Hamilton and I live at 8019 Cheyenne Spur. I just wanted to make a mtement
that I do not want to see the refuse Imnliqg chan~ in any way. I like having a choice. I like having controL I
like being able to deal directly with my ~i_~ ff there is a probiem or a concern. I don't want to [tw~ that
ability, that freedom of choice that I've got. I haven't heard anybody ever complain at all about their trash or
their hauling cr anything and I guess I was living in the dark somewhere but I didn't even know that there was a
big concern on your part for the refuse sium,iou. It comes as a shock to me. But this is how I feel and I just
Mayor Chmie~: Good. Thank you. Maybe just to let yon know a little bit too. When we have looked st some
of this to see what it would cost us to repair all of our streets and I think we had 10~ miles of city streets within
this city. Some of those arc County Suue Aid roads and the balance of that is about 94 miles of roads within the
city. My question was, if we were to have to replace all the streets within the city, what would our total cost be.
If I remember correctly it came up to somewhere in the ncighborhood of about.S10 million. When it comes up
to those large numbers, it's something that you think about and saying what can we do and that's why we're .
going through the process of what we're going through right now. So with that I'll open it up for anyone else
wanting to come forwm~
Ve~AI~ Clayton: You never know what you're going to be doing when you get up in the morning. I didn't
expect to be ,~n~iug about garbage today. I'm Vcrnelle Clayton. I live at 422 Santa Ne Circle. I'm one of the
people who have lived here long enough so my hauler too will offer come and pick up thc Itarbage from thc
8amse and that's kind of handy but I'm not here to speak about my ~ hope that, for my sake as a resident
that you'll not consider passing this. But rather to say that I haven't heard anyone speak about commm'dal
haulers. And I heard everyone speak about how wonderful things ate and I'd like to pass onto you an
experience that I have with the past year...big enough account so it does attract bidders from a lot of the folks
that are hea'e this cvenin8. We chose the lowest bidder. Well qualified and it's just a nightmare. We do not get
8ood service. No communication. Misrepresentation of what has been done between the hauler and just the
desk supervisor and thanks heavens we've Sot a choice because those sorts of...are a disadvantage to not only the
budgets of thc tenants over there but to the looks and appearance of thc shopping centcr which we really want it
to look nice. Thank you.
Uli Sncchet: My name is Uli Sacchct. I live at 8071 Hidden Circle and I just want to make one thing clear,
having one of these...that is trying to take freedom of choice away and...I'm one of the members of the
Recyc~ns Committee that has spent a significant amount of time here in the last 4 months or so studying that
issue and discussing it with thc haulers. I just want to nm_ire it vetT clear that in no way are we trying to take
freedom away from people. In no way are we trying to nesstively impact free entmptise. As a matter of fact I
think it was always very clear from our side that the only way that we are favorin8 orl~mized collection is if we
preserve the element of choice and thc element of competilion. I do not see that exclusion of these elements by
comiderin8 organized collection. And what I've ~ard said here tonight is I see a lot of people see that very
clear cut, very black and white and it simply isn't. ~y not the way we envisioned it. It's relatively
difficult for me to see the wisdom in having every week 6 different garbage bnqlers driving through every
neigh~ and having garbage cans out every day of the week. That to me is not naturally sound and
environmental...wbere we have very tangible element that ff you put a dollar figure to it. However I think it's
common sense. What's the price of having 6 haulers go...to have competition. Is that really necessary? Is that
nn element of choice ns n ~ We nmkc it very clear _ant_ we don't want to put this on a lcv~ of tl~ city
proposing to further stndy the issue and look w~ are our po~il~l~ to imlxov~ the sysmn. Now tl~
number down as a minilllal ~ Itt~ tO ~ tho impoct oil th~ city'l ~ GEl t~ m~ ~
needs to be studied, if you so choose to So f'urther in this process, is how can we acnm~y ~ ~ ~
It utk~ quite a whi~ to survey people for one thin.o, I Ihink ~~ ~~Hy~ h ~~ ~a
lot of time to reach the mtmbtr of 80. Stnti~ti~.~Hy I don't _that it's an thnt bad. Our goal was to survey
sufficient...
~y so l think it should just be frmdmn of choict Eree~ Thisisstfll~ lt'snotRnssiaor
MaycrChmiel: WnankyouDlclc Anyoncelse? lfseetn~none, I'd lfltc to just sort of disctm this a Hflte bik
What I'd lilot to seedont 'l'ne~'salotafpointsthatwer~~upthiecvtmin~. I'd likc to see,
MayorChmicl: No, l don't want to close it. Iwanttolptotbatpointy~ What I'd ~ to do is basicany
table it to 8et some of the answers and ~ back furmn what Ires been ~ sad th~n at _that ~
OW Cotmcil ~.,etin~ - Octob~ 25, 1~3
Councilwoman Docke~: I'm not certain Mr. Mayor why you want to do that.
Mayor Chmicl: Well because we're getting a lot of different responses back and I think we should study and
listen to what people ate saying. For us to review that and come up with conclusions and thea once we teach
those particular conditions, then I think we have a little beagr handle on at least knowing the answers to the
questions that have been asked and some of the discussions that were done.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: But at this point it's my opinion that we can't answer any of those questions
because what we're being n,ir,-d to do tonight is to recognize that yes, there may be a lxoblem. Ot maybe there
is a beuer way to do it in the city and yes, let's go ahead and look at some solutions. We don't have any
answers yet so I'm not certain ff we can answer questions ff we table it.
Mayor Chmieh We don't but we ~tlso have a nice lc~ agenda after this to try to get nccomplished. Rather than
going with the lon~ disse~i~ons ns to what's happening and that's one of the repons that I'd like to see us table
this.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Just so I understand your reasons.
Councilman Senn: Maybe my expectations in coming into this tonight were wrong but you know it Leemed to
me what we were doing tonight was getting the initial public inpuC We were accepting a report flora a
committee and beyond that we were agreeing to go to the next singe of study which personally I felt the Council
needs to provide some real direction on. And I'm not sure the Council's prepared to necessarily provide that
direction tonight but now we have thc mpor~ I'd like to see maybe the Council go into a work session and
discuss it and come out with some direction but I don't see why that precludes us from tonight (a), nccepting the
report and Co), moving to the next step to do that. And I'm assuming, at least I'm going back to what I think
Don desm*bes earlier is that there is this complicated process we're in which goes over many months. As a
matter of fact I thought you said a few years time or something like that. Bn_tnils numerous levels of public
hearing end stuff and this is, what I thought was just the initial or Phase 1 and I just, I would really be against
delaying that at this poinL I like to see it move to phase :2 and I would like to see the Council provide some
mcrc definitive direction on where we would like it to 8o ns part of that process.
Mayor Chmiel: But there's a motion on the flocr to table. If there's a lack of a second, theu we can move in
that particular direction.
Councilman Senn: Oh I'm sorry. I rnisun~ I thought you said you'd like to see a motion to table.
Mayor Cluniel: No, I made a motion to table. Is there a second for tabling?
Councilman Mason: I'll second it.
Mayor Chmiel: Any other discussion?
Councilman Mason: Yeah.
Councilwoman Dockendod: Wait a minute.
Councilman Mason: Well I can still second it and still celt about it. My understanding of the reason for utbUng
this is so we can all have some time to take a look at what's going on here. Discuss this topic further. Is that
City Council Meeting - October 25, 1993
oth~ ~. And I don't, I guess I don't see not, ~ we mbl~ this or not, I dm't think is going to stop that
discussion andI mean whether wc pass thi~ tonight o~ 2 weeks from now, my guess is just from what I'm
MaycrO~aiei: Oood. We have a motion.
Councilmen Win~: Is it still discussi~?
nins~ tnasm~ u ~e pub~ hentns is stol op~ rd m~ m ~
mc and today and I and choice and what's best for me~ Nobody really addressed th~ ci~ othur ~ 1~
and cons here have got a lot of validity so I would..j don't think you're pining paid to push isl. ttamsh. I
think you'rc bcins paid to aiso not push it throush if neccsmy. So be vcry ~ not to be defmsive~ To
table this we deal with it at thc next meeting sod in my opinion vote to go o~o the next plmse. I'm assuming
we have thc majority to do that becansc I think that win start lo axww~ stone quesfim~ *Fne cmly other masmi I
would suppcst the tablin.a Js if ~v~ Call g~t...W~ ~ hfW~ W~ I ~ suppol't him Oil ~ I Ihillk it*s
ch~ that this thing might allow us. But timt's._luem't op~ my eyes So any~tdn.a except it might affect me
~lly and it might not be best ~ mc alid tt might af~ my t~ and flint's ~ ~ ~ ~
CouncflmanMason: ~wevotc. l'nisthingmtawm'kamion. Ithinktids~h~toalwaysbcm
me right in the face and I'd ~ay, I don't know.
City Council Meeting - October 25, 1993
Councilwoman Dockendorf: But I don't think passing this tonight is going to preclude that discussion. It's
going to be necessnry one why or another and I think the Incponderance of Council i~ ready to continue to look
at this so I don't see what .tabling it for 2 weeks is going to nchieve.
Mayor Chmie. l: Other than the fact of what I said...
Mayor Chmlel moved, Councflnmn Mason seconded to table eonaideratkm of a resotnflon of intent for the
proposed establishment of organized eollection of solM waste in the city of Chanhassen nth the next CRy
Council meeting. Mayor Chmlel and Councilman Mason vottd in favor, Councilman Senn and
Councilwoman Dockendorf voted in opposition, and Councilman Wing was silent. The motion carried
with ~ vote of 3 to 2.
Mayor Chmicl: We'll have this back on Council on the first meeting in the month of November.
Councilman Wing: ..,just state for the record that I support Colleen and Mack. My not voting was just because
I don't think there's any big rush and I'm patient enough to deJny it 2 weeks.
May~r Chmiel: And let me say hold onto that partic~lnr piece of material so we don't have to have it ~
again. Yes sir. you'd like to say something.
Bill Swearengin: Dick Win. g, I did address the city in my comment. The City has a lot of issue~ to deal with. I
don't hear any ground swell for an ~ garbage collection system from the people tonight. They had an
oppommity to come and say we need this badly. I didn't hear anyone address this from anywhere in the
nudience on citber side ns to ~g the solution for the wear and tear on the roads. Thirdly, I didn't hear
any direction or any discussion of cost of this preliminary study and secondary study. My one question I would
tike to know, how much did the first part of the study cost. How much is the second part going to cost and
what is your overall estimate of the total cost of the studies, not counting the time that you're spending for the
Council and the staff.
Councilman Mason: I want to make a quick comment. I think first of ali I don't believe in, if it's not broke,
don't fix it. I think there's a difference between being reactive and proactive. And if civic leaders or
community leaders sec a concern on the horizon, we need to do somcthinl~ about it. Just letting it lay there is
not a solution.
Bill Swcaren~: My only thought is to prioflt~ the problems.
Councilman Mason: And I think that's what we're doing.
Maycr Chrnleh That's exactly what we're tryinll to do.
Bill Swearengin: Thc cost?
Don Ashworth: $15,000.00 first phase. $15,000.00 second phase.
PyBLIC HEARINO; CERTIFICATION OF DELINQI, IENT I.]TII.ITY ACCOUNI~,
Public Present:
48
N~me
Don kshwor/l: Ithink~'sa~~ofaswu'L Iti/nkt~ryouhavo~m~~~
constantly arc beJfind in all of th~ bills nd I think you have soo~ whof~J dmt//s is stanch_ t%o thnt th~ can
le~,_~ny take off of their income tax form.
Councilnum Scnn: ...if they don't pay their bills, you can't...why 5m't we just cut thc _d~in~ up imtmi of, how
much money docs this cost us to go o~ and maintain every mmah?
RobertnMisslin: My ~me is Robert ~ Iiiv~nt8231WestV~t'~Court. Wea~gl~dlytmcknf~ra~
having spent in Rhode Island nnd we...~nt~d our house not tnowing some of these little things ~ cheek with
the,..n:quir~ you to pay the~e nssessments,..We didn't know we hsd these option~. I did not know thnt if my
rentcr did not pay thcir utility bill, andIcan't..outofmwnhthatIlmvexum~ Pleascputitinth~nan~ I
respcm~c, lam nowgoing to have to pay...It doesn't seem v~ jmt ami we came in andthzci~w~kcd
of it paid but these people hav~=lt's too late. Can m pimme, I would ~ to request that a policy w ~
notify the ownm~ When it's something that can be done about it. Onmt~ we don't want the city to lmve to
fork over the bill Wc had to pay it in the 1o~ mn and we ~nize that ~ do need to lmve a recourse but
you know in all fahness you can't just dmnp it on the owncr. Wewc~e~ We dtd not intmd to incur
City Council Meeting - October 2~, 1993
much appreciated that...
Mayor Chmie. l: And I ~ your position of where you're coming from, except I don't know how the city
is going to be awar~ as to whether or not you have your pmpe~, which is homesteaded. Then you rent it back
out because then the County doesn't come Ixw. k to us unless you r~port it to the County.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay, and if you did, we don't get that inf'olmnflon back either.
Rober~ Misslin: Until a year la,er.
May~ Chrniel: That's risht.
Robertn Misslin: That's why on the utility bill there should be something that says this is not the homeowner.
Maybe thc homeowner is maybe copied mi thc bill.
Don Ashworth: Well this is what I don't umtemand because we have a lot of accounts where we do exactly.
that.
Roberta Misslin: ...report that we were going to be gone and that we had renters. I thought it was going to be
taken care oL..That's basically it. It's kind of a back to the dumping on people...the cost becomes phenomenal
and when...and I'd like to recognize that_ yes, I am the city. I'd like to have this little problem...
Mayor Chmiel: Good point. Thank you.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: So we do have a meclmnism for putting the pwporty owners on the bill?
Don Ashworth: Right. There are a number of bills right now where the tenant, that the actual billing goes over
to another sddress. Where both the owner and the renter receive a bill.
Councilwoman Dockend~: So somehow this wn~ missed it
Don Ashworth: Well the only thing I can assume is that it wasn't made dear that both names were to be on the.
bill. I just, I don't The other problem they faced is the fantastic amount of wnter that was used by the mnlm~
of the facility. I think there were some violations ns they deal with, you'd anticipated 1 or 2 people and found
out there was 8 or 10.
Roberta Misslin: Exactly. We had numerous violations...but each one wns a little incident and we were nice
people and we just kind of overlooked them until we got to thc end and came home and went, oh. Oeez. Now
we have this hill of $500.00 which is going to keep getting that inte~st added on which is anmher one of my
points. So then if it was sent to our...for what their cost is. We're nlrcady having trouble getting on one. Can
he make this letter very precise. Worded so they understand exactly what their cost is and when. Now we've
got the first session it can come up on tnxes but there's another chunk. And to have to go through the same
process to get thc other part of the money and ff we could just get them to have that whole bill and please pay
this now of this will be your toud and...
5O
City Council ~ - Ooober 2~, 1993
Roberm ~: ...and say yes, I undmumd wl~ ~ m~ I'm a tcaclmr ami I can ~ ~1~...
RoberlnlV[is~.lin: Psr(k~?
Robcrm bfiu~: 8231 West I.~l~ Court
Coundlman Mason moved, ~ Wing secended tn close tl~ publk: han'h~ All vatsd h hvm' and
the motion cnrFkd. The public heafin[ was ckmed.
IVlayor Chmiel: Fd like a motim.
Councilman Senn: wen I'H mak~ a motion to ~ but rd also li~ to _n~__ acommmtwiththis. Irnlly
would m~ to see us look at ~S a policy...~ set in place to send out nodces stuff have a heating
and do something about it rasher than just let it keep bufldins.
Councilm~ Senn: Wenlmean, IguessI'dlflmtoseesmfflookatthnt. Iknowthcs~arequiteanmntm'of.
cities who already have that type of a policy. When it Sets to a certain dollar amount, th~ dmply lmvc a
hearins and So towards disconne~ Ithink~*that~~ ~~'s ~ whether it's renter
compound~ so I mean the ef~'tive yearly role is like 47~ and then you add anmtlcr 20~. I can assure you
thismuch, thc city does not lose nmney off of titcse accounts. ImeanifYou.'regelflng~m~~ I
really feel bad on this lady who I think, she Sot into leasing ~ without really unda, mmdins what,Jut'sail
o. botlt and what some of the pt~nlls of tlmt can be,. And I Ihink that that ocoffrcd during a ~ ~ ~
names? Do you want us to tak~ and send this bin to you and ~ si~ was. Cmnecticut~wimrever. As
well as to the tcmmts was never asked.
51
City Council Meeting - October 25, 1993
Don Ashworth: I sm saying that sh~ is an isolated incident from tho standpoint that this list knew fully welL..
Councilman Senn: What I'm after Don is how many other people on this list. I mean I understand what you're
saying. Beg to differ with your logic is that ff it isn't the penton who's ultimately paying the taxes, it isn't
ultimately the person who's paying tho bill so I mean it's real easy each year to just say, let's forget it and we
know it's going to be assessed to the pwperty taxes and it will be somebody else's pwblem.
Don Ashworth: I'm saying ~ 100% on here, with the exception of ha', nre the owners nnd they know furl
well that this.
Councilman Senn: Okay, she is the only one then?
Don Ashworth: She is the only one.
Mayor Chmiel: This is the only one I've seen or heani within tho last 5 years.
Don Ashworth: And I think that we share a part of the res~ty, at least from what I've irdtls_lly heard.
Finance did make me aware of her situation. Maybe not to the extent that she hsd requested that her name be
on the bill as well. But I mean ff that's true and we fail to do that, then I feel that these compounded penalti~
of 65% or 70% whatever percent it is should not be put onto her. I mean maybe 10% on the total but not 70%.
Councilman Senn: So that means our collection rate is 100% then, is what you're saying?
Don Ashworth: You're guaranteed of 100% collection,
Councilman Senn: $o there's no negotiated settlements or.
Don Ashworth: You're guaranteed of 170%.
Councilman Mason: I don't know if we need to make a motion on this one isolated incident or not but I would
Roberta bfisslin: As thc city grows I think you do need to...
Councilman Mason: Now let me finish...weAi I was just going to go to bat for yon so settle down...needs to see
what can be done in this one case. I really do. I agree with what you're saying Don. $o what's the motion
we're looking for?
Councilwoman Dockendoff: To approve it.
Councilman Mason: With this one exception.
Don Ashworth: Which staff is to try to work out.
Resolgtiou ~9~-106: Councilman Senn moved, Councilman Mason seconded to approve the Certification
of Delinquent Utility Accounts with the exception of the property at 8231 West Lake Court, Mrs, Roberta
Misslin, which staff will work to resolve. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
52
IPRO~ECTen USE OF ~D~ ~0R Tm~ ,URmAN mrd~'lN COUNT~' COMMU~T~
DEV~Oe~Wt ~LOCK ~~ eegO~
fixed ~ ~ ~ term. What you're be~ uked to act on ~ b a ~ of last Ym"s fumh.
We allocated spproximmly $6.0(X)~0 to the HOME ~ eptn'md by Seaia' Co~mtty ~ ~ i~
a chore program to ~ aeniefl tn tick bemet The pmgmn dkln't trim oat to be ns succemful ns we hnd
~ ltwnsnfi~dtosomcementbutitwnm't~totheexentwewouldh'ke, lnfactwe'~eloeidngnt
Services nsk~ if we could ~ that to South Slx~ ~ ~ ~ is tinning at a defi~ this year~
tnke pln~. I doa't have satiate ebe relative to city ~ whe~ we need the nmeeY m'w~'te
Maym' ChmieJ: C}k~, thank yoll prod_ IR there anyol~ wishin_o tO addte~ ~ iJ]lltle at ~ tim~? This iR a
public hearing. Seeing none, rd lgte a motion to close the public leafing.
Councilman Mason moved, Councilwoman Dockmd(rf nconded to don the public bearing. All voted in
favor and the motion carried. The public hearln8 wu clomd.
Ma~ Chmiel: Can I lav~ a motion to actq~ Itt
Councilnmn Senn: I have a COUl~ ClUmim~ tf I could first
PaulKrauss: Theygettheir~~l~UnitedWny. TImmgh3 or4othercemmunMes, Excels~,
53
d~ficit or...
Paul Krauss: I honestly don't know. I honestly don't know Mark ff they're being asked for _n~__iltonal funds.
They nlso collect from thc seniors who use the center. We happen~ to have this funding laying nround,
un~y because it wasn't used by our residents and with the Block Grant being set up the way it is, we
can*t create a new category for it and we can only use it for eligible programs. We di~_q't need it for any of
our's. That was thc first thing I checked. *lltcrdore wc thought it would be reasonable to honor thek request.
Mayor Chmiel: Just only approved programs that we had moved on previously, yeah.
Councilman Senn: But I understood that ~ was some reluctance on the part of the Senior Commission to
app-ove it.
Paul Krauss: Thc Senior Commission is concerned that, we originally were going to contract, we originally
contracted for services from Scnim' Community' Services. Whcn we opened up our center and before we opened
~ once we entered that phase, thc support wasn't there. That their primary focus was oo...South Sho~
community center and that the Scnicr Commission h~ some concerns relative to that. For example they
published a newsletter and they don't publish our activities but they publish their's kind of thin~, I thillk thi~y
arc kind of rough spots in the rdationship that will be win'keri out and thc Senior CommLssi_'_c~l_ indicated that they
did want to have a representative of Senior Cimununity Services before them in March to...through all these
things and I think their premise was, was m~,_ ff they, the Senior Community Services wants Year XXI funding
from thc City of Chanlmssen. But then they're going to have understand that it come with condifions...ln the
form of support services for our center. In the mcantime~ the fact is that a lot of our residents continue to go
there. Seniors we have found arc...highly mobile. They'll come hcrc ~- days a week or up there 2 days a week
and go someplace else and a lot of our residents continue to use it and we've always taken the alximde that
anything we can do that mslr~s it a little easier for all concerned is somethin/we're willing to supparL
Councilman Senn: Couldn't we in effect allocate thi~ to our Senior Commission which was valid..~t efforts
or whatevex...South Shore.
Paul Krauss: No, you really can't. This money has to be under contract by December 31st. I thini~..that you
approve the Year XVHI. Thc only program we have supporting our senior center in thc Year XVIH, and XIX
for that matter, is it pays half thc salary of Dawn Lemme...The~ are no capital expenditures that were allocated.
We can't create one at this point in time,..
Councilman Senn: We have no..~thcr thn_u the
Paul Krauss: Right. We've also, we've allocated significant funding to Sojourn Senior Daycare...
Mayor Chmiel: Okay.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: I'd move approval
Councilman Mason: Second.
Resolution #93-107: Councilwoman Dockendorf moved, Councilman Mason seconded to approve a
54
resolutkm authm4zing the reproiram]nlq or $3,494J)0 from tbe HOME promun to tim South Sbom
Senim. Center e~ruflom rat Year X'v/l/of CDBG lands. All voted in favor ~ b m~ ~
PI~EI.FMINA~Y AND FINAL PLAT APPROV~ TO SUBDIVIDE :26023 SO. FF. INTO ONE SINGLE
FAMH-Y LOT AND AN OI/IIX)T TO BE l~~soJ wrrfl A LQT L0~rA't]gu tin SHOR~WOO~.
~200 CHASKA ROADt JEAN ADDITION~
Nh, me A~lq~_
~m s~
to do thnt, it hM tO imbed into this corner ri~t hnre. And ns th~ sUlff has nmuJ in the l~x~t, ~'s a tm~ a
prulxa~ owner baa~ ]vlr. Sweam~n hu put tn a letter that you have a COl~ of in your ~ ~~ abort
some time nnn~ this lot to Shmewood. At this ttme that's not a cmstdnmJon and we would be dfmifyin~ it as
the applicant h aware of that. ~0 th~ [llt~ ~l Ired th~ ~ _O~mmimi~'on did l~llul~d ~ wi~ t]~
Mayor Chnti~
applJclm here?
nrc contained?
F. rnnk I:Pd~:~C: l~ln~.
Mayer Chmiel: Tlumk you. Any dJsnmtm~?
Councilman Senn: I ipr. ss I 1o~ nt this nnd I really have some lroMenu with it bemme Fm sitting ~ ~
to l~ncilc in my mind why we're crulins this kind of goof~ liltle omi~ rhn: goes into kind ofano man's
classificalion. You know to me is tlmt ~ land and ltme ought to be pnrt of the msidmtial lax bnse. I
with nnd thc next thing they're geing to be in to say ~ figez, w~ should luwe OUF taxes lowered becmm~ it's
55
City Council M~.4ing - October 25, 1993
sense to me that we should be creating some kind of a splinter parcel for no purpose at aH. It seems to me that
ff there's a concern over the dev~ment of the property, or whatever, smd how it's developed in ml~lonshi~ to
the other houses, the wetlands and the trees and that son of thing, that's something that should be handled in
relation~ to the planning process. But I just trove a hard time going along with creating this type of a parcel,
especi~ny when it's on the boundary between the cities and probably would complicate it further in the future
and what happens when ownership changes and some of the simstlous where I feel someday somebody's going
to come back and say well geez, I want to build on that ~ because you know, changed hands so many
times and everybody's forgotten the original intent and it's ~t people involved and it seems to me it
doesn'L..good out of iL That's my comments.
Mayor Chrniel: Michael
Councilman Mason: Well I think Mark does raise an interesting poinL What is the rationale I guess for having
now an 8,700 square foot lot that nothing's ever going to happen to7
Kate Aanenson: Mr. Reesc wants to mate a buffer between himself. I mean he owns aH that right now. It Just
so happens that his property falls in two different jurisdictions. That's all his lot right now. Okay, so he wants
to allow a split but he wants to ffmintaln it buf~ between himself and the lot he's creating. He's always .
enjoyed this full yard. He still wants to enjoy it...
Councilman Mason: So okay, so outlot A then still remains a part of his property?
Kate Aanenson: Exactly. Now it'd be nice to say let's mntre it aH one tax XD number but we've got two
different jurisdictions...wc can't.
Councilman Senn: There is another solution though. Why don't you take the whole parcel and put it together in
Chanhassen and put...
Kate Aancnson: He could annex Outlet A.
Councilman Senn: No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying if you took this whole lot and made it a lot in
Chanhassen, nnd then put a covenant on that, for ns long as he's there that nothing can happen to this nrea
defined on the ~, you've accomplished what he wants nt the same time nmi we don't create this.
Kate Aane~n: It is one lot right now.
Kate Aancnson: He just woukln't do thc subdivision, because it is one lot right now.
Roger Knutson: He could also consider, just tkrowing out ideas, including his house. It just occmTed tO me, h
this plat.
'Kate Aanenson: Right. Bring him into the city.
Roger Knutson: No. He stnys where he is mid you can have a plat.
56
City Council Meeting - October 25. 1~3
PmnkReesc: lVfr. Mayor, couldI~thi~question? 'flmtwnsmyflrst~Mad~ Thmintnlkingwtth
the realtors, it's nmnrkembte. You cannot, ~ you cannot selL_Yes it's legal but it's not ~..so that
was why we went tlm~gh this process nnd paid the surveyor.
·
Cotmcilmnn Mason: Wcll I'll wait and see what tbe plcasme of the rest af thc Councfl ts. Igucssldon'tlmve
a real strong opinion one Wa~ or the other.
Councilman W'mg: Well he's doing exnctly whnt I would have dm~ nnd whnt I would ~ so I don't hnve a
lwoblem with it. It's insist I think.
lVlaym*Chmicl: And I look at it the same way. I~km'tseemnchofalsoblnnwithit. I iooizd at it md '
looked ~ R ~ ~y ~ I~ ~ ~ ~'s ~ ~ ~a ~~ ~ R m ~ Itcan
make it rather diffir~ttit for anything to be don~ but funntm' things hav~ been doflt But ~ at Ihiz
BillSwearengin: YourHonor, Mayor. lVlaylmakeaso~ Iwasovedookedhthcpublic~ I
wnsn't notified becanse I'm part of Lot J nnd'when l~rnnir notified Carver ~ ~ ~ he indicated thnt
LotJ ns being subdividednnd they tho~_ht ~t I ~ ~~~ which I'm noL My only quemion
nmount the..,trees on the southeastedy.. ~nm~ m~ 4 walnnts, lmimulbenT, which is an extmnelyrm~treein
Minnesota, and 4 ymmg rm~. M that are healthy. If the home w~e moved fxmn a 10 foot settmck ftmn I~
property line to a 50 foot setback, all 10 of those trees wm~ be preserved and it wouldn't impinge on any other
few scrub basswood. It would center thc house more o~ thc lot which would give a na~e aesthetic al~earance
and thc wetlands is a decaying wetland anyway. It was done in 1~53 when ~w~ 7 was pushed thrmtgh by
probably in loot 15 years be a wetland at all It'srnnntn.~ it's natural course so Iwould simply~ ~ ~
57
Council to w.~ a variance on the setba~ from the water to allow more variation in plac/ng the build/ng...to
preserving trees on the southeasterly corner. Thank you.
Roger Knutson: Sust a comment. To do that you need to go through the variance process, which has not been
done here. You're not in the position to grant a vnrinnce tonight.
Councilman Wing: ...I'd like to move to table this allowing staff to work with the applicant to review tho
further options...including the issue of the trees and that entire subdivisi~...
Kate Annenson: No, we looked at the trees and we said we want to move the home and place it specifw.~y
where we can save the most trees. We asked..O~t to show whether or not we could get a house on there nnd
meet the wetland setbacks. This is by no means binds him to that footprint. But whether or not you feel
comfortable sayinl~, well we'd rather save more trees thnn give on .the wetland, that's where the issue is.
Councilman Wing: ...the other issue is the other options that were brought up. amd perhn.ns ff you have a chnnce
to discuss this with the applicant it may be to his benefit to..so I'll stnnd by my motion to table.
Councilw~ Dockendorf: I'd second that as well. Them are enough questions he~.
Councilman Wing moved, Councilwoman Dockendorf seconded to table action on the preliminary and
final plat to subdivide 26,023 square feet so the staff can discuss further options with the applicant. Ail
voted in favoF, except Councilman Mason who opposed, and the motion carried with a vote of 4 to 1.
PRELIMINARY PLAT TO REPLAT LOT 2~ BLOCK It OUTLOT (~ AND Dt BLOOMBRR_G
ADDITION INTO ~ LOTSt IN(~LUDING ~ PLAN REVIEW FOR A HOTF. L EXPANSION AND
RF~TAURANT BETWEEN THE COUNTRY SUITES HOTEL AND FRONTIER BUn.DING~
LOCATED SOUTH OF WEST 78TH STREET! EAST OF MARKET BOULEVARD AND WF-.qT OF
.GREAT PLAINS BQULEVARD~ LOTUS REALTY SERVICF~q AND BLOOMBER(~ (~QMPA~$.
Kate Aanenson: I apologize to the applicant. All the site plans nnd mutn'lngs were thrown out ~ were left
down here so unruly we don't hnve...wnnted to show you tonight.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Kate, can I interrupt you for a sec/md? Mr. Mayor, what is our policy about
hinging new issues past a certain hour?
Mayor Chnfiel: 11:00 is our cut-off time. Basically. We can continue and ~ to 12:00.
Councilman Senn: On an item that's already on, fight?
Mayor Chmiel: Right
Coundlwoman Docke~: I just see this issue m~ug qult~ a while. I, myself have lots of questions about
I'm just wondering if we should enforce that this evening. I realize that th~ applican~ stayed here through ~
horrendous meeting buc
Mayc~ Chrniel: Yeah, they've snt here through most tho evening and there are some questions that are there as
well but Roger. What position lesnlly?
58
City Council Meeting - Octolxcr 25, 1993
Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, you can basically do wl~ you'd like.
MayorChmiel: Okay. There'sa~m~~~~n_othebalnnceofoornlpmda. A time frame.
Is there a second?
Coundlman Senn.' Second.
Kate Aanenson: That includes consent items too?
Councilman W'mg: ...knew this at 8:00.
know we're ~-tting to the point d mn~'inll good, nat/mai decisions. Bnt I sttn feel emt fl~'ve sat Imre fro' this
period of time and Richard's hnngry ~ So there's n mog/m on the floc~ ~ a ~
smd table the ru~mbr od' the nsendn until · subsequent meetin8. Cmmeilwumnn Docbndorf nmi
Concllman Senn voted In farm', Maym' Chmid and Councilman Mason voted Ju opp(mitkm and
59
City Cotm¢il Meeting - October 25, 1993
Councilman Wing did not vote. The motion carried with a vote of 3 to 2.
Mayor Chmiel: You didn't mention anything on the first one so that means, that would go as an aye vote. So
that would make it 3 to 2.
Counc~nan V~rmg: That's fine and.
So ~'d ~ a ~ i~m.
CounSlman Mason: Well, then maybe we should give ~ the consideration of at least getting started tonight.
Councilman Wing: I agree.
Councilman Wing: Absolutely. I would favor that.
Mayor Chmiel: We allow then, how much time do you think it would lalce to do the quick presentation.
Councilman Senn: How about we're history at 12:00. The meeting's over.
Councilwoman Docke~: How about we ask them how long it's going to take.
Councilman Wing: What about item 10 also7
Mayor Chmiel: Well item 10, there's a lot of questions mo that I have many questions on that. I couldn't come
up with a conclusion even tonight on th~ one but that's besides the point.
Councilman Wing: We're not going to get at both are we7
Councilman Senn: Well the motion failed. You still have to pass a motion to waive the rules. Somehow as I
understood it. Waive the rules and go forward.
Mayor Chmiel: Well a motion's been done so it's already been completed. Unless you so choose to rescind
your motion from the first as well as the second.
Councilman Wing: Would you clarify where we're at hero. First of all we have the Bloomberg pwjecc Item
number 9. Following tim is Centex with number 10.
Councilman Senn: Neither of which are short items.
Coundlman Wing: Neither of which are short items. And there I get into consent agenda which is not a lot of
major items tonight. Nothing long mm...all of it or part of it or none of it? I'm missing this.
oppmmnit~ to stm't there, and _th~__~ would be for Blocsnberg's to tort the~ lweJiminap/~ on it fur 15
minutes and I don't think anyl~ can get clone within thnt 15 minutes either. As beins emablished ns 12:00 as
lVlaym' Chmiel: Yeah.
pick up what's left smttin~ at 7:30.
Conncilnmn W'ms: Yeah, but it doesn't go all ni~t.
May~r Chmie2: Yeah, thnt's _comin_~ tip. Yep. Thnt's ~ ri.~ht_ So with thaC
~ Wing: Well I'm wilHnli to stn}, a complete this next item, even ff it mir~ until 1.'00.
Cotmcilnmn Mason: I can't.
Councilman Senn: I can't either.
CouncUnum Wing: l'm just nsking whnt you want to do.
Don Ashwoflh: You can set a special meettn.o date or.
Cotmcilm~ lVlason: Mr. Mayw, if I'm out of order Ilavcl me but I think thh is a cheap shot to thc ~ who
lmve been here since 7:30.
61
Mayor Chmiel: Well that's my position as well Michaal.
CouncilmnnWlng: So what am l supposed to do7 Because see l got lost here. Iwuslistoningtobothskles
and then I didn't vote and I got caught here now. So...
Councilman Senn: I don't ~d. I mean we're in a vicious circle. I mean this is only one item. That's
renmining. You have an another item after where you have somebody that's been waiting since 7:30 too so how
do you...
Councilman Mason: So maybe we my he~ until 1:00 tonight. These people have a lot of time ami effort
invested in what's going on ~mighu And I think ff we can't suck it up for another hour and a ha__lf I, well I'm
Councilman Wing: How do I do this on the feceS7 Last time I used the word duress or pressure...
Roger Knumm: As a point of ord.. There's been a vote
Mayor Chmiel: There's been a vote to, 3 to 2 with one no voice vote which means it's an antom _n~_. yes but.
now has clmnged his mind from his yes vote.
Roger Knutson: So you have 3 votes to ~y adjourn?
Mayc~ Chmiei: Right.
Roger Knutson: You want to change your mind and not adjourn?
Mayor Chnfiel: That's correct.
Roger Knutson: Then someone who voted in the majority to adjourn votes to reconsider.
Councilman Wing: Sum, I move to reconsidm'.
Coun~ Mason: I can't second this. It's Sot to be one of you two.
Mayer Chmiel: It's Sot to be one in the positive aspect righO
Roller Knutson: The only requirement is the person who mnt~s the motion has to be in the majority.
~Mason: Ohalfight. Iseconditthea. I was not awa~ of that, Thanks. l'll second Mr. Wing's
motion.
Councilman Win~ moved, Coundlman Mason seconded to reconsider the motion to waive the rules for
adjournment. Ail voted in favor, except Councilman Senn and Councilwoman Dockendorf who opposed,
and the motion to reconsider passed with a vote of 3 to 2.
Mayor Chrnicl: Now, can wc have a motion to continue the discussion.
Don Ashworth: Just one quick point so you know. I have talked to Dan and they will pull off item number 10.
62
City Council lvl~tin~ - October 25, 1~3
Ka~ Aanenson: You've got the consent.
MayerChmiel: Yeah, we stiIl have the consent agenda. And those a~ not any, thn~is l(1), (n), (f) and (¢).
·
Don Ashwontc Can't we just hn,~,., the one dealin~ with Lnndgrm?
~nn Wing: 'I'nat's fine.
Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, i was already ~
Rogtr Knuts~o: c, e,, L
Don~: But we dm't nmi to do all those.
Maym' Chn~lel: So we have, we have ~, f, L and m-
Co~ncilmnn W'ms: No, that's been passed.
Coun~ Wing: So I would move that we move the coment ~ at Ibis time, ~nt of erdn' and thru finish
~an Senn: I'm sorry, what are you doin~
Councilman Senn: But l don't utain'stnnd what yon'~ moving. In~anarsymmovingtomyl~t's~the
cmsent agenda?
Mayor Chmiel: No, h~'s moving the Consent atlends f~m ~ 10(a) to itnn 8(a).
~ l~s.m: C.
63
City Council Meeting - October 2.S, 1993
Councilman Senn: Let's just move c then.
Councilwoman Dockendorf: Yeah, let's just move c.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Yeah Richard, you had that one.
l(C).
HIGHLANDS ON LAKE ST. JOE (I~ORM~RLY THE BQLEY PROPERTY); FINAL PLA'['
APPROVAL AND APPROVE PLANS AND ~PEI~IFI(IATION~ AND DEVRI.O~
O rR CT.
Councilman Wing: ...is it's going to impact Lake St. Joe and as I looked at the...hndscaltnS, it Just didn't meet
my expec~ons...Whether the changes occur or not, I _thini~ it should be reviewed and looked al in grealer d~pth.
I think there's need for additional trees...on the next agenda with an upgraded landscape plan limt I belitwe
Kale...8oing to be improved upon.
Mike Pflaum: My nv. me is Mike Pfl~mn. I'm the Vice President of Lundgren Bros Construction. I apprecialc
your patience in indulging us al this late hour. I'm a little bit al a disadvantage in that I do not have very firm
footing on the history of this pm~,hr project. My area of involvement is principally in development. I was
unaware that there were any outstanding issues at this point. I ceminly am agreeable to working with mff to
refine the landscaping plan. However, we are looking al a very narrow window of oppcrmni~ to get started on
this projccL I would not like to sec a 2 week delay while wc erumenale over some of the landscaping for back
yards of some of these homes. I think we've got a track record of accomplishing what we say we're going to clo
and generally doing more than anybody expects us to do and I don't feel it should be necenary for us to delay
this project for this particnlsr reason. So my request of the Cotmcfl is that they direct staff and Lundgren Bros
to rcvisit thc landscaping plan but not hold up the appro~ for iL
Councilman Wing: Kate, what's your pleasure on that?
Kate Aanenson: I'll go whalever your direction. We can cerlainly work that out. It's just whether or not you
want to see it s~iu.
Councilman Mason: Can the motion be, it will carry on as planned assuming thai m. ff i~ comror~le with
changes.
Councilman Wing: ..~3roval Lake SL Joc contingent on staff's safisf~fion with Lundgren Bros on an
improved, not status quo but improved..,and landscaping plan for that property.
Cmmcilman Mason: Second.
Councih,,an Wins moved, Coundiman Mas(m seconded to approve the Final Plat and approve Pans and
Specifications and Development Contract for the Highlands on Lake St. Joe contingent on the applicant
providing an improved landscapln8 plan which meets with staff's n~. Ail voted in hvor and the
motion carried unanimously.
Mayor Chmicl: We'll go back to item number 9. Kate.
Kate Aanenson: There's two issues that wc'H be looking al here tcaight. One is the subdivision of the property
City Council Me,ting - October 25, 1993
request. It would be requJred to hnve 100feet. ~'ney'reat99nndS f~et~v~y. Welnplx~the~
tl~ ~ go through _thAt brk~y. He's tried to blind thom two lind then h~ feels ~ ~'s ~
had, _thi,~ did go tO the Plnnnin~ C_ommi~ twic~ with the criginid ~ plan wBs th~ ~mount of ~
sufficient parking 90~ of the time. But we did want to mal~ sm~ dar th~ Pndc and Ride facility and the
pmkins. So whnt we m~xnmendM is ttwt we frJt tt~ and the _pbmnin.~ CcmnJssi~ ~ thnt there's
which is West 78th and aH the d~~ will be mnd~ to the tw~-k- So om' __rt~'~m~fi~ ~ ~ · ~
dOE~S t}ccorn¢ a plx)blcEn, that th~-~ woHld lX~ ]flndlc:s[~[ to Inlik~ il frimdly to ~) thrml~ there Ired have
thepmtdngto~elurofthe~s. 3'neotl~issuewasthehndscnl~inmr~. We did nsk thnn to get up
did come forward with n sisn pach8~ One menuxne~t sign for the Frontier Building rhnr they wmmd m nsc so
they are brinsina in a new sign pachse fer thc I'll let the ~ go thmuah thaL Channel~ Sowe
thissit~ A?i,,they'mbotharchila:tm~y~l~. Oue would be the mcre mnnm~ sty~ lo go wtth the
Councilman V~mg:. gJ~ you mentkmgd some graphics have. been lost7
Councilman Wing: What ~y what sine w~ misdng ben~?
Kate Amenson: What we had is w~ had asked the npplicant m ~ ~ ~ m ~ ~ ~ ~
views from West 78th. A~in= tM,, is in tt~ hil{ttway cen'kim' so you could see whnt I~ view wouki be with th~
65
City Council Meeting - October ~, 1993
actually see as far ns building heights. We do have some drawings that will show you the whole...building with
the sign package. And a lo~ of what you've got in what we handed out in the packet tonight, althoush they're
not colored, shows...
Councilman Mason: Don, we saw those at HRA didn't we7
Kate Aanenson: Yes.
Maym Chufiel: Yeah. Yeah.
Councilman Wing: Okay. I'm 8oing to just..~ht here then. The HRA...we had artist renderings.
Councilman Mason: We had computed assisted.
Councilman Wing: I8 tl~ u'ue Ka~?
Kate Aanenson: No, they were photolFaphs. They were just photographs with a mylar overlay.
Councilman Wing: My concern is, here's one of the biggest projects that's Boin8 to...downtown for a ~ time
as far as length snd-..and this is sort of what I have to go by.
Kate Aanenson: I apologize. They got ~ down here and were thrown out. We made a boo boo.
Councilman Wing: ...that whoever's doing it should have the expertise and the Imo. wledge m como in with full
computer generated pictures of exactly what we're doing. With landscaping. With the all{ns. With the back
ground. With the...view and I don't think anything should be coming before this Council or even being
considered by the HRA...My wife's an architect and that's all they do. That's not even a consideration any
more. There's no more of this building little models and coming in here with bluelxin~ of some attlst...~ is a
big project and this ought to come to us big time presentation and if that was lost, then I'll withdraw my
concc~flso
Kate Aanenson: They have a scpm'at~ sign ~e with specific architectural drawings. There is a specific
landscaping plan that was done by..Jandscape architect and there was ~ves that we had asked for and
unfommately the perspectives were lost by the staff.
Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Any other discussions? Does anyone from Bloomber8 Companies have anythin8 to say
...with thc conditions that were set in, Brad?
Brad Johnson: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council. We do apologize for having those thrown away. They
were beyond our control Two of your members have seen them and you can discuss that with them. I think
they we~ comfortable ns well ss thc HRA and we went hnck through the Plannin~ Commission twice to try to
refine those and deal in different directions. They were not computer generated so much ns they were
photographs and then we took the photographs and rende~ the building into the photograph from the locagoas
that people were interested and I think that's ac~_ rally a little better than a com~ because you ac_u_m__lly see the
building. A computer Bets a little bit abstract. What we'd like to do is that we had presented this now 3 times.
We've taken the input that we've had at each of these mecgngs and basically work in, and we agree with the
rccommen~tjon of thc Planning Commission and what's cmTently on your agenda. What I'd like to do is
66
City Council M_~g - October 25, 1993
exptnin what we were trying to do..,nnd we d_id~'t' find ont that they didn't have the drawings until ~ 2 hours
n~o so we puned up some _~ings to try nnd com~ thnt b~ nnd I think we've done n ~ Bood ~ ~ ~ ~
far but iL.~tbout $5,000.00 worth of things cnmmty mi~ and nothing we can do nlmut it. So Fd like to say
compl~ton of th~ ~..bnnflin?. It's jmt thnt we have to ilet om with our business ns we don't Imve a use
qumiom because ~t way, ~-y~l do n quick lwesenm~ ..d thru if sm~ of you hve some qnestims you
judgmental thing. I know what BRA saw that night nmi what I saw that night I thou~t ~ ~ it would be
a definite asset to what was going on here. And Riclmd, I hear what you're ssyins about not soeins ~ and
Counc~W'ms: And aftcr seeing what the Planning C~ sent us en Tm~ I'm a little ~ We
really had a, you know that didn't come np to m very, I didn't think it wns a very good lm~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Mayer Chrniel: Yeah, So ahead.
sawinitlnllyixcanseaslrecallyouwe~bere~~ Andwelnlk~abo~thatatsmn~delxh. Ithinkto,
while it's nice to do COmlmtn' nndcri~ documenls, I gl]on tbn~'s a still an ~out~ ornot _that's
thc best way to do it at this point. To go ov~ thc plmm and the elevations ~ ~p will be c~
dealing with and trying to cnnnect it nrchilecmt~Y. What we ~ is the srch..these ~ in freehn~just
tonight, because ~nt's all ! had in my little b~ with me but basically tht~ wns a t~mt~m about th~ ~
but l ~ink it will mayb~ give you an idea. 'l'nisistheonepnrc~he~nndth~l~lnmnnt One~hm~fm'
67
City Council Meeting - October 25, 1993
color of this existing. The sign paclmge that we discussed was a :3 foot band here with the mounted letters
simil~ to what we see with Team Sports that's over there now and we're basically using that as the criteria. It
will be consistent on down the building clear to the Theatre. The signs for the restnurant. We're requesting a
64 square foot sign on the face of the building here. An entry loc. talon sign nt the canopy that would be brought
out nmi the perspective that comes out to the sidewnlk. There is a covered entry. The co_!~t~4~., we have two
small shops inside on the first floor of the new expanded hotel and we're asking for two small signs there. We
have then requested monument signs. Two monument signs, both to be within the requirements of the new sign
ordinance. 8 feet high. One will identify a restaurant, the two small shops. The other would identify basically
building basically where you see them presently now. The only other sign would be the sisn on the back of the
hotel. It would be facing, 64 square feet facing Highway 5...Kevin if you want to h'ing yom' site plnn~ that
Brad Johnson: It might help them to see the site plan.
Kevin Norby: My name is Kevin Norby. I'm a landscape architect. Fortunately these drawings I brought with
me tonight and so they're current. I think you got some rednctiom that you can look nt. What we tried to do
overstory trees and lower shrub and ground cover provided to enhance the front of the proposed building ns well
as minimize some maintenance. Lock at safety and circulation in and around the parking lot. We also took a
look at this court yard area here and I've got another drawins that looks at thnt in greater detail but bnsically the
three nreas here, these three lots, we've used 4 different species of trees off of the list. We've got American
linden. We've Sot sugar maple, We've got common hacktm~ and we've Sot ~ ash. Some of that. We've
Sot those in equal qtumtities. I think the sugar maple's Sot one more tree _d~__u the others but the~ are 12 trees
in this parking lot nrea. Not including the boulevard trees which exist here. Not including the trees which are
up nlong the buildin~ in this interior court yard area. There's nlso one large existing ash tree which we'll work
to save. There's a deck around the restaurant that will be near that but shouldn't pose any problems as far as
saving that. Agnin, in the parking lot the landscape islands are 10 feet wide, nbout 32 feet Ions and about 320
square feet. We've located some of the existing lights here. One of them, which will be in one of the planting
islands and those planting islands will have a combination of agnin, lower ground covers and shrubs. Some nre
going to be evergreen. Many of them being deciduous. We selected them for various reasons. Mostly because
of their salt tolerance and the heat tolerance and low maintenatw~ They're all relatively short, knee high. 2 feet
or shorter. Again these tree exist out here. This area here with the new realignment on West 78th. It's our
feeling is much too narrow for trees so there won't be any ther~ There nre some projections into the parkin8
lot, two of which witl be occupied by si~age, One of which will have some trees and ndditioml plantings.
There will also be some lower plan~gs around the signs. Those are daylillies in these two cases. Up along the
building we've Sot again some nOd_ttlonal trees. That again is tmckben'y. Same trees. Hackbetry, limten, maple,
ash. We tried to make this area comf~le for, visually amactive but also comfomble for people to walk
throu~. We've got a chan~e in paving materials here where people might walk across this loadin~ dock
srea..jndicate to provide some safety element. We've got a little bit of lawn back in hem. Beaning and some
juniper, spirea, that sort of thing. So I guess I'll open that up to any questions.
Councilman Mason: Kevin, I'm not sure this is your question but I thought the loading dock had been moved to
the back.
Brad Johnson: It is.
68
the staff and the PI_arising Cemmisslon cmcun~L So what we felt Uke, ~y Ik~ tn~ be n chance of
where, for a time when we need to put nddifionnl pmkin~ We wanted d~i~ to be a fitendly, imiestdnn fdcndly
where it ~ to you to go wnlk down there. So he mnd~ those ~ n~ put the Innd~cnping in and
lighting.
Councilwomm ~: So the eatin~ doesn't ~
going to l~oject the nccessnry lmnlm output to spread7
Kevin Norby: Bxisting lights nm lmm. We Imrpmely looked at those...
Kevin Nm'by: There is one existing light he~ _duu will be locnled within the ?nm-ln~ area. We've used a
shorter species of uee there.
Maycr Chmiel: 'l'ne oaes that nm all there? Okay.
You have the hotel listed as a mol~ I thint there's a littte.
Kevin Norby: Ttmt's my emir..
Irate Amenson: We hnv~ ~_nnntng_..hot~
lvlay~Chmicl: Ycah, it's just a little typo and l just wanted to call that to your attmlton. *I"ne other point beinll
too is the fact that on the two other ~ that you've given m, ~'s ~ a ~ ~ m ~ N~mally
69
City Council ~g - Octobo' 25, 1993
in receiving this, even though it's preliminary, those should be signed.
Kate Aanenson: On the site plan7
Mayer Chmiel: Yeah. Site plan aa wen aa the Exhibit A. No signatm'e.
Kale Aanenson: The subdivision is...tho ai~ plan was done by the architect.
Tim Howell: These are signed by myself. We don't have a PB involved.
Councilman Wing: Kate are these, the trees that are in the islands, are these survivable plant, rs? Upliir_o. Target
where we put them in flower pots.
Kate Annenson: Well, what we looked nt the new landscaping ordinance is 10 x 20. 200 sqtm~ feet. This is
320 so.
Councilman Wing: Okay. Kevin...with you. Are we puttin~ these in a survive seuins? Is the~ adequate
space there for these trees to survive?
Kevin Norby: Yes. I think we are. I had some input I think, not so much in the trees but in the ~ of
the ordinance that resu'icted the size. And I think those are acceptable. I wouldn't expect nny problems if thn'e
Mayor Chmiel: There's one other thing too Kate that I rend in your report. That w~s covering the Uniform
Building Code, UBC. In the last, the currently proposed subdivision creates runny of the snme problems. 'I'nese
problems need to be s&iressed before the property is replay/becanse fl~.Jr resoh~ may effect the location of
Kate Annenson: They have met with the building offic/ats. It's really a building code issue. They have to put
ca'rain fire wall and that was the building official and they have agreed to meet whatever the building otT~inl
~ W'mg: $o ~'re going to be going through and sprinklin8 this entire building.
Kate Aancnson: Well, whatever it needs to do to make the building meet the requirements because they're
splitting part of the exts~ Instant Web building and the change of occupancy. Whatever the cost mqutre~
They understand they imve W meet that.
Tim Howell: We have to put in two walls basically...right here. And thnt would become then the property line.
It'd go down between those two walls...
Cmmcilmnn Wing: If they were sprinkled now, how about for the hotel then on down.
Tim Howell: These are sprinklered here,.
70
Tim Howe. l~ No, they're going to be.
Tim Howe. Il: Ohnbsolut~y. We'renotgotnsmuymnvotd..
MayorCluniel: Anyothcrquemim~ 01~. If ~re are no other quemims, istbwcamotim?
Counctlman Senn: I'd lik~ to ask ruff I guess a couple ~
'l'nere will be a signal at Larcdo and they frlt that imving the ability to turn risht away might came some
problems so they felt having lcnger slacking was mom sppmpiate. So they ~we ~ing to be leai~ing the long
credo. I don't think it's reflected on _thst-
TimHowell: Yesitis. It's right her~
Brad John _~m: It's in the reogm_ m*mdnflrms_
Kalc~: Nmnber7. The mmmce to the hotcl intmect~ slmn be k~t as it exists today, toextmd~
curbline. It'snnmber7. Then the other one, number 11 ~tmsbecumet. Kcvin~du~inhis
there will be some tncks going through ~ Ands_°~n onthelnnd~ so~~ I1 lmsbecn met.
additional usc of thc ~ and it's way under tbe Pa~ n~=.l dm't know. If it's an been
reconciled a~ ~'s...
71
City Council Mee~g - Octo~ 2~, 1993
felt like most of the resmmant use would be probably daytime me~ing use there. 'l'nere's meeting rooms there.
And the Dinner Theatre's nt night. Our main concern is that they don't use the bowli~.g alley parking on the
sonthwest~ Not encumbering _that_ so we have the ability to change uses thea~..
C. ounci~ Senn: But the whole, if I'm reading this r~ght, the whole conc~ is based on m~rn~ kind of m~ss
paxkin8 agreement.
Councilman'Senn: ~11y I'd !ii~ to tnllr more s~y with Hoisin~on on that.
Councilman W'mg: I think that parking issue though was the known from the very beBtnning. That clearly was
l~..king and there's nothing to be done about it.
Councilman Scrm: Wcll l mean tbe ability's there to do something about it. He has more ~...
Councilman Wing: Yeah but still, my interest is lmtdng in front and I'm not going to park in back to access
this. I'd park across the street at the Riv before I'd do that.
Councilman Senn: Well, but there's a lot of people that could park in back. A number of people could be
required to park in back. Employees.
Kate Aanenson: We looked at that issue too. Required parking...
Mayc~ Chmiel: If yon see the kind of parking that's back there fight now. The otlmr question that I just want
to ask, that delivery access is not going to be done through the front but will be done through the back side of
that building7
Kate Aanenson: I'll make that clear. There will be small step van type deliveries in the front. Lm~er loading
vans will come around thc back.
Tim Howe, il: The trash will be tnke. n from the back and the large trucks will be -n _io~___tng in ~ blw.~. ~
only things that will be coming through are smsll vans and they will be ccming tim)ugh. You probably won't
Kate Aanenson: There is a big slope ns you go back to wher~ the dock is...
Mayer Chmiel: Any other que~iom tl~ we have. If not, bet'ore anybody else leaves, can I get a
Councilman lVlason: This is a lm~liminm'y plat. I've had the pleamm~ of seeing this. This is my third time and
every time I see it gets a little bit better and I thought it was passable the first time so we're definitely heading
in the right direction. I would move approv~ at this time.
Maycr Chmiel: We need two different ones. The I~ plat. Maybe ff you w~e to go to pa~e 10. That
would cover it.
72
Oty Comcil Meeting - Octot~ 2~, 1993
Bloomberg 2nd AddJfl(m #89-9 with m vm*hnce fbr lot WMth on L(Ms 1 and 2amd site plan revkw 4M0-2
for the addition d hotel, restaurant nd modHimtJ0m to tim Fr(mfler BuildJn~ ss shown om tim plmm
o
Cross ~S ~ ~ ~ 1 and 2, Block 1, and Ouflot A of Biomaber~ Additim ~~ 3,
Block 1, Cha~ ~ and Emnticr Developnmt Corpm~ tthnn ~ mxxdod at Csrvu* Cmmty.
e
8. Sign covcnants shall Ix~ cmited and filed with the d~~
o
A vaflar~ to Ibc 100 foot lot widlh requhunmm tn th~ CBD zo~ fix' Lot 1
~ct) at' Bloombcrs ~
10. TI~ Ci~ ahall ~ lmt:in~ md if Imlti~ in a P'otiun. the ~ 'hnn povtde a hnda;:~Ped Ired
surface perkins et the rear of tl~ hotel site o~ PmPatY owned ~ Bkxxn~ ~
73
City Council ~g - October 2~, 1993
11. Pedesuian safety shall be rc-ev~uated for nor, h/south walkw~ betw~ the buildings. If staff has
concea'ns, a rail or other means shall be installed to sepaz~ vehicles and pedesUians for safety.
All voted in favor, except Councilman Senn and Councilwoman Dockendorf who had ~ the meeting,
and the mmton carried.
Maym' Chmiel: 10 has lefL The othea' items und~ admin~ve piesenlatiom can be catfled on through fcr
n~xt we~k and.
~ Mason: N~xt we, e. k7
~myor Chmicl: In two wee, ks, cxcus~ rn~. But th~ ar~ still discussions for it~n 2(f) which wc will cafl'y
through, 1 and m.
Coun~ Wing: What hap~ncd to a7
·
Councilman Mason: And 2(a) I be~v~ also Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Chmicl: No. Wc approv~ rial
Councilman Wing: Didn't you pull
Councilman Mason: I didn't pull it.
Mayor Chnficl: I didn't pull it.
];)on Ashwoflh: I may b~ putting out a memo to you r~garding thc Chanhasscn Staf~ Bank. TJ~y want to do a
closing this Friday and I~vin f~lt that I should mak~ ~ everybody kn~w, we, Il really what th~ HRA alre~y
knows.
Councilman Mason moved, Councilman Wing seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and
the motion carried. The meeting was adjourned at 12:30 a.m.
Submitt~l b~ Don Ashworth
74