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1993 09 13CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL REG~ MEETING SEPTEMBER 13, 1993 Mayor Chmiel called the meeting to order at 7:3:5 p_m. The meeting was opened with the Pledge to COUNCIL ME~~ PRF~ENT: Mayor Clmflel. ~ Whlg. Court.woman Dockendorf. STAFF PRF~ENT: Don Ashworth, Roger Knut~n, Todd ~ Charles Fold~ Todd Hoffm~ Kate Aanenson, Sharmtn Al-Jarl', Jean Meuwissea. and Tom APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Co~_m_cllwoman Dockeadorf moved, Councilman Mason seconded, to approve the agenda with thc following changes and additions: Mayor Chmtcl moved item l(c) to be included with item 9; Councilman Mason wam~ to discuss the Lift Station on Lotus Lake and Councilman Senn wanted to discus8 Tfiax Cablevtsion ,_nv!__e.r Cmmdl ~ons. All voted in favor of the agenda as amended. All voted in favor a~ the motion carried. PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: ACCEPT DONATION FROM THE ~$EN LIONS CLUB. Mayor Chmlel: There's a public anno~m_tn~ment this evening and I don't sec Scott Hart here. Don Ashworth: Mr. Mayor? I received a call today from a retm:~i~latt~ fixmi the Lions. They would not be able to be present _this evening and had asked that this item be put on for the 27th. Mayor Chmicl: Very good. Are there any other public mmmmcemc~? If seeing none, we'll move fight along. CONSENT AGENDA: Cotmcilman Wing moved, Councilman Mas¢~ seconded to approve the following Consent Agenda items pm'sua~ to the City Manager's recomm_endatt~a: Resolution//93-76: Call Assessment Heating Date for Minnewaa~ Parkway, Project 90-15. b. Resolution ~3-77: Rex~ive Feasibility Study for Street Reconsmicaon and Drainage Improvements in Chanhassen Estates Sulxlivision; Call for Public Hearing Date, Project 93-10. c. Resolution ~93-78: Accept Public Utility Improvements at the Target Site, Project 92-1~. d. Resolution ~/93-79: Accept Public Utility Improvements at the S~_mamtt at Near Second Addition, Project 93-2. f. Resolution//93-80; Accept Public Utility Improvements at Stone Creek First Addition, Project 92-9. g. Resolution b~)3-81: Approve ~ Control Signal Agreement No. 71020 tnawe~ MnD0t hi and the City of Chanhassen, Project Nos. 92-3 and 88-22B. Approve Declaration of Covenants, Conditions, and Restrictions over Part of Lot 9, Crane's Vineyard Park. Approve One Day On-Sale Non-Intoxicating Liquor License Request, Septemberfest Celebration, September 25, 1993, Chanhassen Lion's Club. City Council Minutes dated August 9, 1993 City Council Minutes dated August 23, 1993 Public Safety Commission Minutes dated August 12, 1993 pi Preliminary and Final Plat to Subdivide 1.18 Acres into 2 Single Family Lots, Jacques Addition. q. Approve Addendum to the Development Contract for Trotters Ridge, Project 93-18. r. Approve Condemnation Proceedings for Upper Bluff Creek Phase IIA, City Project ~)l-17B. s. Resolution g93-82: Approve Mid-Year Fund Closings and Transfers. Vi Authorization to Pm~ with Parkland Purchase, 5+ Acres; David and Anga Stockdale Property, Galpin Boulevard. Ali voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. K. RESOLUTION IN SUPPORT OF TI~ DEVELOPMF~NT OF TI~ TH $ PEDESTRIAN OVERPASS AS A COST SHARING PROJECT WITH ISTEA FUNDSl AND U. AMENDMENT TO THE CITY'S TRAIL PLAN TO SPECIFY CONNECTIONS TO HIGHWAY $ OVERPASS. Councilman Senn: We could probably deal with 0r) and (u) at the same time. My questions are basically the same for the items from the fact they're same. One's from Paul, one's from Todd but the same thing. The thing I was wondering was basically, we're asking for a resolution of support and also an amendment to the trail plan. Before we do that I guess I'd like to understand, at least a little bit better, get some type of breakdown of what we're talking about in terms of total project mst. How much is being paid by ISTEA. How much is being paid by the City and what funds, where is the city funds coming from. Mayor Chmiel' Okay, Paul is not here. Councilman Senn: Maybe hold it until later in the agenda7 Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, maybe. I'm not sure if Paul is going to be here this evening. His new daughter just arrived last night and so I think that's why he's not here this evening. It's been a long Chantutssen City Council Meeting - Septem~ 13, 199:3 haul. Don, i8 ther~ anythin~ thst you could s_~ t~ that item 0O and (u)? (k) is a resolution supporting that development of ~ Highway 5 al:gl pede$~trlan ovelpa~ ~ whllt ~ ~ may I~ for each of those. And maybe Caarles miglX be able, do you have any of those costs or esttmstes? Don Ashworth: I know we_for ISTEA dollam but the ~c cost associated, the esttmal~ cont for the bridge, I don't know. Councilman Senn: I can save you _time, I asked. Charles already L..I guess Patti's the only one with the answer... Mayor Chmiel: Okay. We already have the dollars for, or foOt,ting ff they're not in hand. And that amounted to, if I remember correctly, $225,0~.00, or somewhere in that neighbo~ DOn Ashworth: That was my recollection as well. Is there a necessity ttmt this be approved this evening, is anyone aware? Can it be pulled and put onto the 27th? Todd Geffugdt: Sure. Mayor Cbmiel: Is there a time frame restriction or are we doing anything on? DOn Ashworth: Todd may have more on thaL Todd Hoffman: The reason for you, I know Fred HoisingUm is involved in this. Asking that this be approved because there is some other applications which they're making as part of an EAW for the Trunk Highway 5 project. There was some planning elements~.. Mayor Chmlel: Okay. And I think what one is son of related to the o~ to a point of ge_tflnl TH 101 to TH 5 and I think that's what Mark's looking at for the access but ff I remember correctly, $225,000.00 that we were provided from the feds through ISTEA was not, it was not the total cost of installing this big a project. If I remamber, it's somewbem in the neighhoflx~ed of about $100,000.00 some dollars. Todd Gefl~t: It was a ~ grant application so we had to match R up with $225,000.00. We had estimntes of about $450,000.00 to build the pedesUian bridge, or more ~ ~ ff it comes under it, we get the $225,fX)0.00 so anything up and above the $225,~.00 is a city extmnse for that bridge. Councilman Senn: Okay but our obligation is to mat~ whatever they simxi up to the $22~,0~.007 Todd Gefllalxic Correct. Councilman S~nn: So if we utili7e all their funds, we stick in $225,000.00. Where's our $22~,000.00 coming from? Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 Todd Gerhardt: ...but if the project comes in at $350,000.00, or $325,000.00, we only have to put tn $100,000.00. Councilman Senn: Okay, so it's not a matching, pure matching. It's over and above this $22~,ooo.oo? Todd Gerhardt: That's the way I understood it. Councilman Senn: Okay, do we have any idea what the total project cost is at all? I mean I thought I heard originally, or I thought there was some reference originally when this come up that when you took all the costs, that the IS'lEA portion coming in was about a third' of the total cost or something. That's what I'm just trying to understand. I mean I don't have anything on that other than a vague reference. Todd Gerhardt:. I think our estimates were around $450,000.00. Because it had to be a matching dollar arnount...half of what our estimates. We had provided some estimates as part of the application process. Councilman Senn: I don't want to spend a lot of time on it but I'm just real uncomfortable...endorsing it without those kind of details. Mayor Chmieh I guess I can't quote any other figures than what we basically have indicated here. I sit on the Met Council's Transportation Advisory that we process these proposals through. And it would be, as I remember, a feather in our cap in even being considered and getting the ISTEA appropriations for this overpass. And it was the linkage that we were looking at and connecting the south side of Highway 5 to the north side of Highway 5 and into the business district. Councilman Wing: Where was this covered in detail, because for some reason either at Planning or I-IRA this was gone over in detail. The funding. Mayor Chmieh Yes. Councilman Senn: We've never gotten the details. Kate Aanenson: Yeah, you have gotten a copy of the grant. If you want to table this I can get you a copy of the specifics of the grant...if you want it to go later in the agenda. Councilman Wing: Yeah because I've seen this. Mayor Chmiel: I believe we did. Yeah, I remember some numbers and that's why. Councilman Wing: Yeah I just skipped over this beca~ I've seen it and it's kind of old business. Don Ashworth: ...from the standpoint that the HRA just selected and architect and it's their Chanh~sen City Council Meeting - Septem~ 13, 1993 responsibility to bring back three different design comlx)nenls to the HRA. Take a look at. Wl~'s this going to cost. So I would anticipate that you're going to have one version that's going to be the cheaper form, the middle of the road and I don't think that we picked a particular design. In fact I know we haven't and I don't know tha~ final costs estimates, anyone can give those but we can get a copy of the applicalton. Mayoreluniel: Maybe we can do thaL Can you see ff you can flnd thaf/ Wecanaddreasthatlater. Mark, would you like to address item (m)? M. CITY CODE AMEND~~ TO CIIAFI'ER 10 gEGAROING SEXUALLY O!~~ BUSINESS~, SECOND AND FINAL READING. Councilman Senn: This Is seco~ reading Wnigh~ and I guess, in ~e first reading I raised a'~ of concerns with the ordinance regulating sexually orlenlated uses. I still really ~m not comfortable that we're, how would I say it, being tough enough. I read the staff report and also read the ~_~ff from the atWmey but had a chance to basically,look at, check out a few other ordtmmc~ th~ are far more resUictive than our's that have been sitting in place for quite some time and never been tested. Mayor Chmiel: Who's would those be? Councilman Senn: One of them that I remember w~ quite detailed was Hopkins. Hopkins had a number of provisions in there like, I mean they puahed it to 1,000 feet. You couldn't be wi_o~n 1,000 feet of any schools or churches or residences. And the other interesting twist, they 'couldn't be within 1,000 feet of each other, was another ~n~ twist. Hopkins went so far as to say th~ the hours could not, they couldn't be open for busines~ between 10.~)0, I think it was 10:00 p~n. ~d 10:00 ~ It went so far as to say that there could be no enclosed are~ wi_thin these places. ~ they all basically be open. And their fees go as high as $3~00.00 for these types of uses. And so again, it's just not washing with what I was seeing and I'd really like to see us do very restrictive oniinance rather than a middle of the road or even whatever. Mayor C~miel: Does the City of Ho.nldm have any of those _bos)nesses per se? Councilman Senn: They have, I think it's also kind of, they throw pawn shops I think in the same classification- They have two pawn shops I think_ I don't think they have many of the sexually orientated ones yet but that might be. That may be a trlbu~ to their ordinance. Councilwoman Doc. kendorf: Well I think that's the concern of the lawyer, ff I can speak for you Roger, is that it hasn't been ~ and we don't want to lose ff we are too restrictive. I mean it's a cross between not wanting them and having to allow them- Roger Knutson: You have to allow them. This particular onllnatr, e is ~ directly after the Ramsey ordinance, which was upheld by the District Court and Federal District Court here in Minneapolis 6, 8, 9 months ago. It's now in at)peal to the 8th Circuit so there is no finality to _this but this is a pattern ordinance that's been used around the country. Cnn you be more restrictive? Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 Possibly. At some point you have to ask yourself, where do you draw the line. The basic philosophy of this ordinance is, you can come to town but if you screw up, you're out of here. That's the basic philosophy. You have to give reasonable areas for these businesses to operate. And what you really have to do, if you...is take 1,000 feet or 2,000 feet or whatever it is and you've got to plot out in your city where, what's left and if when you finish plotting it out there's nowhere left, or not a reasonable amount of space left, then it's tossed. It's unconstitutional. Councilman Senn: Hopkins is a 11 mile square area. Chanhassen is. Mayor Chmiel: We have a few more miles. Roger Knutson: And Hopkins has never been tested. Councilman Senn: No I understand but I mean, wouldn't it be better to pass a more restrictive ordinance and then if somebody tests it, you could always fall back and change the ordinance to your Ramsey one? Roger Knutson: You could, but it could be an expensive experience. Councilman Senn: Why if you change the ordinance would it be so expensive? Why would they pursue it? Mayor Chmiel: Roger's time. Roger Knutson: ff they challenge you, you're fight. You could fall back and just...or amend it. Councilman Senn: I would just think if they're going to challenge it, it would probably be challenged in one of those locations that's already real restrictive about it, Roger Knutson: It's not quite...Up until very recently everyone has thought that you could restrict nudity and license liquor establishments, ff you go around the metropolitan area, I would say... everywhere I know, which is not everywhere, they have those restrictions. Councilman Senn: Except 2 weeks ago they threw that one out. Roger Knutson: They threw it out...what the situation is, I don't know. Because I was very surprised and most people were very surprised by that. So Just because someone else has got it, I wouldn't necessarily use that as a model. But if you want to be more restrictive, then we can try to be but again, I would suggest tabling it and let's draw some circles and see what the effect is. Mayor Chmiel: Yeah. What was the other city you mentioned as well? Councilman Senn: The other one I looked at was Plymouth and another one was, I think it was New Hope. Roger Knutson: You can find a variety of ~ ordinances. All I'll suggest is the longer the ordinance has been on the book, the more suspect it is. The more cturem ordinance is probably more reflective of the CUlrent staV~ of the law. Coundlman Senn: Hopkins is I think the most recent one if I remember fl~ht~_ That was within last 2 years I ~ink: ff I remember fight. And I saw some real good poinm in there that we kind of missed like the no enclosed areas and stuff like tha~ And ~ hours of operation. I mean we pick hours of operation on a lot of diff-er~lt thin~. Roger Knutson: Not hotels. Councilman Senn: Well, this isn't a hotel? Roger Knmson: Oh yes~ Mayor _Chmiel: Okay. I think maybe what we could do is either table this to the next meeting and have some additional reviews with it, but as I have read Roger's recomm_endstto~ In there it indicated that, well of course we are cl~mging t~ from the $500.00 we originally had to $1,000.00. And we're still at a $00 feet distance if I remember correctly. Is that fight Roger? Roger Knulson: That's correct. Councilman Wing: But that was selected for a reason and it had to do with our demographi~ downtown. We've measured this at Public Safety in the past and the 1,000 foot outlawed the whole downtown are~ And again our issue we described was we waflt to ptlt it in a specific place. Preferably out in the. Mayor Chmiei: Industrial development area. Cound~man Wing: Which was a zoning issue aga~ This has gone through public safety years ago and what is it a year and a half that we've been talking about this and Scott and the Allomey and the City Manager and everybody has discussed this and we've tried to compromise it and talk about distances and they stated that the increase to $1,000.00 is maybe supt~rtable but higher than that perhaps isn't. And I think we've, the only new thing I've heard is the enclosures. And I guess if it ever happens in Chanhassen, maybe we ought to add enclosures as an amendment but I don't know ff I want to tie this up and tie up staff any longer. It's a reasonable ~ with reasonable numbers that I think is workable for now and you're assuming we're going to have a problem ff we have to go about changing it. I just, the debate's gone on for a long cmmgh time. I think we've had enough compromises that we have a fairly good document here. That's Just my opinio~ Mayor Chmiei: Evell ff we adopted it and put addcndums to it ~ards, we ~ do thaL Chanhasse~ City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 Roger Knutson: It seems quite, there's a decent possibility that when the 8th Circuit decides the Ramsey decision, which people have been expecting for some time. Most of them that have decided cases. I might very well be coming back again and telling you, suggesting some changes. As I will now as a result of... Mayor Chmiel: Okay. How does Council feel on this? Basically ready to move or would you like to put that additional comment that Mark had with no booths? Councilwoman Dockendorf: I have a question Roger. If we pass this and something does come in to Planning, it's my understanding that we can't amend it because there's already something in planning in the works. Roger Knutson: By filing an application you don't gain a vested right Just filing the application just like in a zoning ordinance. It's possible to put moratoriums on. But as a practical matter, you're probably right. If someone comes in, tomorrow for example, before this ordinance is passed, the door's wide open because these are permits are handled administratively. They'd be approved, assuming they didn't need any other zoning approvals, would be handled by the city staff. Councilman Wing: For Don Ashworth. I believe Public Safety drew circles. I know we did when we looked at it in years past and Scott didn't bring this forward without having looked at the footage issue. I mean it's not just an arbitrary number. It was applied to downtown. Mayor Chmiel: That's right, it was. Don Ashworth: I'm sure if you made it 1,000, if they were not allowed within 1,000 feet of any church, school, or other similar use, there would not be a spot within the downtown that they could be located. Because it's not over 1,000 feet away. Mayor Chmiel: So any other discussions? Councilman Wing: What have you asked for7 Councilman Senn: All I was asking for Dick was that we look, you know I'm sorry. You've seen the circling. You've seen something I haven't seen. Councilman Wing: Are you asking that it be tabled? Councilman Senn: I would like to just review again the footage. But more importantly, I would like to look at the other restricted areas such as the booths, the hours, the fee and stuff stlil...because what I'm seeing is that there's a lot more restrictive than what we're talking about. Councilman Wing: So you're asking it be tabled? Councilman Senn: Yes. Chanhassen City Council Meeting - Septem~ 13, 1993 Mayor Cl~niel: Okay. It's beem moved to table item (m) and have this before us at meeting, which would be the 27th, is that convx~ Councilman Senn moved, Councilman Wing seconded to table the City Code Amendmant to Chapter 10 Regarding Sexamlly Orimted Businesses until the next City Counc~ meaing. All voted in favor and the nmtion carried unanimou~y. N. APPROVAL OF ACCOUNTS. Councilman Senn: Let's see here, page 13. There's an item $3,785.00, 5tefan As~ociaIes. landscape Archi~ Services relating to the Hanus Building remodeling. And on page 9 there's a $13,962.00 expenditure for HoisingUm relating to three items, Opus, ~ and Lake Ann Irrigation. The Hanus building, as I understand it, ts an HRA project or pmpe~. Again I was womlerlng why those were city expemes. Don Ashworth: The ~ture is held in a capital accotmt. In _this case like the Hamis. At the time that we sell bonds, the proceeds of those bon_ ds will pay off the capital project. The ~ is repaid by the HRA. So you're correct. This will eventually become an obligation of the HRA. However, in the interim period, until those bonds are sold, staff has t~ken a position that the ~ should be submitted to the City Council until such time as it actually becom~ an obligation of the HRA. I know this issue has come up before. I guess what I would like to do is have the City Attorney prepare a response as to if an item is shown as a ~ expenditure in the HRA plan: up ~_mtil tha~ lime, up until th~ time the bonds are ac0_~nJiy sold, does staff have th~ authority to simply submR them to the I-IRA or I guess our past ~ bas always bec~ to sul~nit ~ W th~ Oty Coum'tL Even knowing that evemually thoy'll be paid by ti~ HRA. I guess I would a~k th~ Roger prepare th~ report for our rte~ agenda. Councilman Senn: Yeah, the thing I just find awkward is your esflmales were basically approve city expenditures to somcthin~ we have absolutely no mrdmrlty over. And it seems to me that the HRA has reserves too so I mean, if you have temporary ~ that have to sit there, then why aren't they being spent by the HRA until such time as the other funds become available to the HRA. There's a thini item on page 8, same way. $3,763.00. Hammel-Green again for the er~nalnmem compler, Coundlman Wing: You know, every Coundl meeting _this thing comes up and we pull this ledger out and staff is confro~ with off the cuff requests for information_ Jean Meuwissen ts tl~ most ruthless, conservative manager of our money I've ever seen, along with Tom Chaffee and his staff. They don't make mistakes on here and evelythtng that has come up ~ hss ]lad an answer. Now on page 8, the one I circled was l-Iammel-Greelx, fees smt 8~lviges. I mad~ a, phon~ call Friday to Tom Chaffee and within 3 mirmtes I had a fax with the bill, and wherever I put it here. A complete description of wire it was and why it was and a clarlflcalto~ And I would really pl~r to have my time ~ on public heatings and not pulling arbitrarily items off of here that staff can't answer. That they don't know what you're lalking about unless they have time to delve into it tha~ could be done Chanhass~ City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 with a phone call. I've called the staff from an airplane in mute from Honolulu to c~ on stuff because I knew I was going to late. I don't think it's fair to staff and I'd like to move that any items from the ledger that can't be handled prior to the meeting, be stmply mentioned and then automatically tabled for staff reaction at the next meeting. I don't think it's appropriate we discuss them. And I'm going to put that as a motion at this time. Mayor Chmiel: There's a motion on the floor. Is there a second7 Councilman Mason: Can I hear the motion again please? Councilman Wing: All I want, an~tme that any member of Council has an issue that they didn't have time or were unable to get answered regarding this ledger, they weren't able to talk to Tom Chaffee or his staff or Don Ashworth, that they simple be acknowledged and then tabled until the following meeting and placed on thc agenda so staff has time to prepare and in detail find out what they are. This one from HGA, makes sense to me. Right in front of me. It was available just on a moment's notice. It just takes a quick phone call. Mark, a couple other ones. Councilman Senn: I'll second your motion Dick. Mayor Chmiel: It's been moved and seconded. Any other discussion7 Councilman Wing moved, Councilman Senn seconded that in the future any Account Payable items that cannot be answered prior to the City Council meeting, be pulled from the ledger and tabled until the next meeting for clarification by staff. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. Councilman Wing: I just had a comment on this also. Mark, I don't mean to, you know I'm kind of driving this home for a reason I guess because we Just had an accounting. They just talked about the city's accounting and it really made staff look pretty good. I think that we have to let staff nm the city and if you have questions, I think you should ask them. I mean you're really intelligent. You know a lot more about this than I do but I think there's an appropriate time. Twice you've pulled travel and training off of here and kind of put people on the spot and in going through this ledger I see your name under travel and training twice for a total of $1,150.00. What's this all about? $1,150.007 Advance for wharf I mean your name's on here twice for $1,150.00. Councilman Senn: I haven't gotten to those either yet Dick. I had the same questlous because I haven't seen them and I don't know what the beck they are. But if you want to get to those, we can get to those but I would still, based on your motion I would like to pull those 3 as the motion went for tabling. Mayor Chmiel: Okay. We'll move those and we have. Anything else on your items? Don Ashworth: Can I respond on the travel7 10 City Counci/Meeting - Seiram~ber 13, 1993 Mayor Ouniel: Yeah, go ahead. Cound~man Senn: If Don's gotn8 to deal with the other one, that's...Dick asked the quest~ Cotmcilman Wing: ...I was Just making a point here that I happamd to know wh~ they're fur but they pop up like that. I think it's ~r to ask and it's just a lot of money to show on there and I know you're going to conference and I know what it ~. But the point is, I flflnk what the ntunbers that come on here are legitimate. They're honest. They can be trusted. Slaff's on the ball. Jean Meuwissen doesn't make migtake8 and if you have any questions, ask her. Don Ashworth: Well, just for the record. I did tell tho~ Council membe~ who were attending the National League of Cities, that I would process a travel advance for those. Included is Mark Sexm's for $500.00 and I brought that this evening to have him sign ix as well as one for Colleen in the amount of $~00.00 as well. Both of those are in your accotmts payable~ I don't know what the other $600.00 was. I didn't see that item. Mayor Cluniel: I just wanted to mention one t_hing. Sean is sitting in our audi~ today and that does not mean that you get an tnterim raise Cotmcilman Senn: Well and I don't think anybody's questioning what Sean or anyt~y else is doin.o. Ail I'm questioning is, recently we've talked through _this week afl~ week. The only thing I've been at issue with is why are we authorizin~ HRA expenditures on city ~mdS and I've never had an answer to that yet. And I still have the same questions, ff it ever gets answered, then I'll quit raising the But I think it's proper... Mayor Cluniel: Let's move ahead with it. RidmnL (t). Renew kennel permit applicati~ T. RENEWAL OF KENNEL PERMIT APPLICATION~ 86K5 CHA_NHA~NEN HII.I.S DRIVE NORTH~ CHRISTOPHER AND LISA THOMPSON. Cound~m Wing: This is on the Consent Agends. I went out and visited the yard today. Kate, when and how many dogs? Don't look it up. All we know is that more than something you've got to have a kennel permit and this one has 4. ,~ the dogs are, what kind of dogs are we talking about, do you know? That's irrelevant then....~ndrtg about a kennel and a kennel permit. I think wc should, I'd like to define kennel and when you put a picket fence around your yard, and then you let the dogs run at large in your yard, and when we had the comp!stn~ we've got against the bafldng and the nuisance, and thc people are afraid to walk down the street because the dogs charge the fence. I think this could be resolved ff they shut the picket fence off. To limit the dogs to the side or back yard, or in fact put in a formal kermel, as I noticed other people had in the neighborhood where there's an actual fenced kennel which seems more approprl~. I think the complaint here isl..picket fence and the dogs being at large in the yard which is maybe their fight but I thinlr at this point it's not a kennel and I would tend not to approve ~i~. Or better yet, I'd ssk that this be tabled and that this issue be reviewed and that staff go out there and look at this personally because it's really not a 11 Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 kennel. It's just a fenced in front yard that has complaints against it. Don Ashworth: If I may. City staff, we did send the CSO, our animal control officer out to the site. The parties were not aware that there were concerns on this one. We received certain assurances from them that hopefully that would alleviate the problems. We notified the two parties that had written in. Advised them that the permit was being issued but it was being issued on the contingency that their concerns were going to be alleviated. As I mentioned in the staff, we were kind of interested to see if any of the parties were here this evening on this item. I don't know if they are or not. It might be interesting to ask. If there is anyone here on item (t). Mayor Chmiel: Thompsons, are they here this evening? Don Ashworth: Or any parties that were against it? Mayor Chmiel: Anyone objecting? Don Ashworth: I sincerely believe that the two parties who were objecting, that staff has alleviated their concerns. If not, it would be brought back to the City Council. Mayor Chmiel: Good. Can I have a motion? Councilman Wing: I move approval. Cotmctlwoman Dockendorf: Second. Councilman Wing moved, Coundlwoman Dockendorf seconded to approve to renew the Kennel Permit Application for 8665 Chanhassen Hills Drive North to Christopher and Lisa Thompson. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Mayor Cluniel: I'd like to go back up to item (n). We did have a motion but the motion was to go through the process as Richard has indicated. But we did not receive an approval for the balance of the accounts other than those three items that were tabled. Councilman Senn: So moved. Mayor Chmiel: Is there a second? Councilwoman Dockendorf: Second. Councilman Senn moved, Councilwoman Dockendorf seconded to approve the Accounts Payable with the following items being tabled until the next City Coundl meeting for staff clarification: Check g052587 payable to Hammel-Green in the amount of $3,763.24; Check//052593 payable to Hoisington Koegler Group in the amount of $13,96237; and Check g052671 payable to Stefan 12 Assodates in the amount of $3,785.00. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. Mayor Chmiel: Mark, item (u). Councilman Senn: U we already dealt with. Mayor Ouniel: Oh I'm sorry. Yep we did. We did that with K. W. W. AUTHORIZE PREPARATION OF FEASIBILITY STUDY FOR TH S SOUTH FRONTAGE ROAD AND TRUNK UTILITY PROJEC~ 93-26. Councilman Senn: We're basically being authorized, or we're asking Io sm/mflze IXePaml/on of feasibility study for the south frontage mad. I talked with Charles on this and just have a concern that basic~ly previously plans always showed ~_t frontage mad effectively going on the north side of the school site, which made some sense as it's related to buffering the school from the highway. Except for now in this I saw reference to ba~i~y moving that frontage mad to the south side of the school which seems to me all of a sudden you're kind of pocke~ the school inbetween the highway and a fairly busy frontage road and stuff and I would hope with that ~ty study that we basically look at the broad issues or the best placemem of that service road, you know given changes and old plans versus new plans for what's going out there, etc. So just a comem. Mayor Ctm~iel: Yeah, and I had one other question with that one as well. With BarWn-Aschman providing the services for this south frontage mad, we're engaging them because of the fact that they have had the expertise with MnDot and so on. But the other part of that question is, in tying that down with Barton-Aschman, are they engaging RLK Associates inW _this project as well? Charles Folch: Not that I'm aware of, no. Mayor Ouniel: I was wondering then, why was it copied 1o them7 Charles Folch: There was a rel~sent~ve of RLK...~ there should be a copy of it in your pac2~..represenfing the Heritage Development Corporation and also the Highway 5 Parmership... Mayor Chmiel: Very good. Okay. Councilman Senn: Charles what happem with, I mean everything I've seen previously on that frontage mad essentially kind of came to an end at, on the east side basically at Galpin. Charles Folch: As a part of, the scope of this project would only basically be...west end would end at Galpin. Puture extension of ~is roadway through the property to the west towards TH 41 would take place as a part of those pmpe~'s development in the fulm, e. Councilman Senn: How about to the east? VOmt's the eastern limits? Charles Folch: The castcm limit would be, at th/s point it'd be Audubon Road... 13 Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 Councilman Senn: So it'd go all the way over in effect to alt 17 and tie in? Charles Folch: No. The Audubon Road would be another segment which is a future segment between Audubon and CR 17 that's not yet built. Councilman Senn: Oh okay, so it would use that existing. Councilwoman Dockendorf: Doesn't it hook up with Lake East? Councilman Senn: Isn't there a connection through there already7 Councilwoman Dockendoff: Yeah. It's offset. Charles Folch: No, there's not a Lake Drive connection between CR 17 anti Audubon yet. There's Park Road to the north that services an east/west thoroughfare. Councilman Senn: But that wouldn't be part of this system? Charles Folch: No. Councilman Senn: Okay. Mayor Chmiel: Okay, can I have a motion for item (w)? Councilman Senn: So moved. Councilman Wing: Second. Resolution g93-83: Councilman Senn moved, Councilman Wing seconded to authorize the preparation of feasibility study TH $ South Frontage Road and Trunk Utility Project 93-26. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: Jay Dolejsi: My name is Jay Dolejsi, 6961 Chaparral Lane. I would respectively request that the city of Chanhassen incorporate the 1995 study area on Trunk Highway 5 as a comprehensive site plan. I believe it's appropriate to take this action at this time because of the completion of the Highway 5 Task Force and the proposed Audubon Boulevard... One of the big concerns that was in this area when the Task Force was dealing with it and again when it was in front of the Planning Commission was, the chicken and the egg argument. Or does land zoning determine where the mad should be or does the road determine what the land zoning should be. That left a great deal of uncertainty about it and this uncertainty was also very difficult for me and other landowners in that, depending upon how it was zoned, we could support one road alignment as opposed to another and very much having been part of the study, I attend~ most of the meetings, I'd very much like to be able to support the city in 14 Cllanllassen City Council Meeling - Septn~ber 13, 1993 it's efforts but with that uncertainty it's very difficult to do. MnDot...~ next phnse of construction, it would seem an appropriate time to have this pzvisitr~ Thank yom Mayor Cl~niel: Thank you. Any questions that the Cotmdl may have? Councilwomm Dockendoff: Just a comment that the Tnsk Force, the Highway $ Task Force bna completed their work but it has yet to go to Planning Commtasion and the Council so at this time I'm not ready to incorporate it. Mayor Cluniel: That's correct. It would have to go through ~ ~ first before we make eXC~)tiorL Councilwomm Dockendo~ But I would consider it when we are finished with that pmce~ Councilman Mason: I do mink a point has well been raised here. As things are starting m happen. It might be a good _time to start looking at all the options along Highway 5. Councilman V~mg: With a claflfi~on for Jay, we really couldn't incorporate it because it hasn't been adopted yet. Mayor Chmiel: That's correct. Coundlman Wing: So we're way ahead of schedule yet as far as adoption goes. Jay Dolejsi: So the Task Force re~;X)lnm_end~stion h~ tO be ~ ~ Coundlman Wing: Yeah, the Task Force reccamncndaflon is at the Planning _Commistiion now and then the whole public hearing ~ starts. So approval is a long way off and then inclusion in the Comp Plan would be a long way off according ly, is that corre~ Mayor Chmiel: That's correct. Jay Dolejsi: How is the, I mean that area that's not on the Comp Plan, will the task force, will their recommendation govern7 I mean ttult is accepted, will tt~ then govern how the Com~ve Plan's going tO be adjusted? Mayor Chmiel: Well that will all be discussed. Do you want tO say something Sharmin? Sharmtu AI-Jnff: I believe it will depend on what the new Coundl will adol~ Mayor Chmiel: Yeah. Recommendations will come back from both, or from the Plmning Commission to the Council and yet there may be some things there the Corm_all may not like to see and could be changed. Or adopted as suggested by the Plsnntn! Commission, blit ~'8 that final decision that is done here with that. Okay? Thanks. Is there anyone else for VisitOr Presen_ tstion? 15 C~gnhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 Ron Hanes: Ah yes, my name is Ron Hanes. I live at 7340 Kurvers Point Road and I'm here with my wife and our two neighbors to discuss a problem we have with a street that's backing up and over flooding our property. Particularly this morning it came to light again for the fourth time this summer. There's been a lot of damage incurred to our landscaping, which was just put in this past week. There's probably multiple causes between the street design possibly, the surrounding areas of the new construction area with unseeded lawns and that is still...ideas of getting that fixed. And also who's responsible for some of the damage that's been inc~. We have some pictures of things that happened just this morning which was, we had this thunderstorm that came by and it's the fourth time it's happened this summer so it's a problem that needs to be addressed and some action taken on it. Mayor Chmlel: Do you have those photos with you fight now? Ron Hanes: Ah yes we have. Mayor Chmiel: Maybe we could take a look at those and as I mentioned, we can't take any action on this and it's time to. Don Ashworth: Charles Folch is aware of this item... Ron Hanes: Some things have been done, even today but through multiple phone calls 2 weeks ago, this was supposed to be done a few days ago and it didn't get done. Specifically the, starting with the obstruction in the drainage line into a settling pond which is at least $0% obstructed... Mayor Chmiel: Charles, are you aware of this? Charles Folch: Ah yes Mr. Mayor. I was made aware of the situation this morning after, unfortunately that incident occurred. In talki~ with my staff we have people now that are t~king a look at the situation and investigating it. It is unfommate. It sounds from discussing with my street superintendent that some of the residents did make contact with him a few weeks ago about the outlet being partially plugged with silt. That was mainly probably caused by the...ratns that we've been having throughout the summer which have been washing unlandscaped, unseeded, unrestored land into the system. Typically this would be a developer's responsibility to maintain the systems until basically all the lots were built. Unfommately we have a different case here with the developer wasn't the builder of the lot either so the stipulations in the development contract didn't really nm with the sale of the properties but Mike, in good faith effort made the choice that he would step up and try and clean out that culvert, even though he really wasn't necessarily his problem yet but unfortunately we had a series of rains before he could get to it. But we are making an effort to evaluate all of the elements involved in the problem. We will be making contact with the homeowners of the neighborhood to see what we can do about getting some lawns, some silt fence and drainage c~ck dams put up. There is some sodding along that swale that was supposed to have been put in which would have certainly helped matters this morning but we are working on the situation and we'll get it taken care of. Mayor Chmtel: Thank you. Richard. 16 Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 Linda Bordcls: I'm Linda Bordels...Kurver Point Road~ That was my photo album_any question is, this is the second t/me since we have been...a~ financially I cannot afford W do it again.' It's very devastating and we did ask the City to help us before and I would like to know if the City would consider helping us in the financial part of our sod and our retaining wall We have lost a lot of the rocks and the shrubbery and Just overall appearance. It's been a long 8nmmer ~ with this alld I'm very stressed out Wday after going through, we just got ~ sod laid Saturday and it's very hard an our family. So I'd appreciate anylhing that the Ci~ of Cluinhasaen can do to alleviate some of the... that we are dealing ~_ Thank yo~ Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. Don Ashworth: Mr. Mayor? Mayor Chniel: Yes Don. Don Ashworth: They should submit a claim or letter to the City stating the damage that they have inacrred as a result of this. If they can't give a specific amount, they should state in there the type of damage. It should be dated. It should be signed and again should be submitted to my office as soon as possible. We do carry out inmmmce coverage. I will not state whether or not, how the adjustem would look at this. I just have no idea but they should submit a claim. Mm. Hanes: Can I ask a question? Two wee~ ago when the water hit we got I don't know how many inches in an hour or whatever it was... Councilman Mason: Too many probably. Mm. Hanes: We also have piaux~ of that because our entire rock woflt was tmally gone because of thia Now Mike, your watennain, I talked to him 'llmrsday morning. We had our sod done on Wednesday and we called Wednesday. We didn't get a return phone call __snd Thursday morning he didn't call real early and we were both going out of town and I asked btm and he was pretty abrupt and said that he basically was busy. And my first question was, well what if it rains, then what7 And now it rained and you can see what happened to our yards. And I guess along with what Linda said, this is the second pile up. We have picmr~ of the first pile up too that just didn't get developed fight away...and Ibis has just been an ongoing problem... Don Ashworth: Normally when there is any Clstm, the sooner fl~at you get it in, the better off you are. Mrs. Hanes: Do we submit a claim to you7 Don Ashworth: Yes. Mrs. Hanes: Or do we have an inmmuw~ assessmem come? 17 Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 Don Ashworth: No. To myself and I will take and acknowledged that we have received it and I will then submit it to Doloff Insurance who is the carrier, agent of record for the City and there should be an adjuster through that company contacting you as to whether or not they see a city liability. Whether or not they will pay or not. Mrs. Hanes: ...they've been down for at 3 to 4 weeks. Maybe a month. I don't know. Because that was what...and then that pond, you saw the pictures. There was like a tree growing out of that pond that was stopping this. Ron Hanes: That was cleaned out today. It took about 15-20 minutes. Councilman Wing: Well had that been open, that wouldn't have helped you today. Ron Hanes: I don't know. Councilman Wing: I don't think so. Mrs. Hanes: The question is, you know if he was trying to say because of the pressure of the dirt and the water, we understand that we've had unusual rainfall. And he kept referring to the dirt coming off of these lots. I don't think that that's really going to solve the problem. The problem is, I don't know if you noticed Mr. Wing today, you stand on the end of our house and walk up 10 feet and it's clear and you go to the other side of the Bordal's house and walk up 10 feet and it's clear. And each end of these cul-de-sacs, this water is forming and coming down over our driveway which takes away half of their yard because it's our wall and our rock that's falling over the wall. And the problem is the water. You know they're trying to tell us it's the dirt and you know, if they'd sod all these lots. I don't think that's really going to solve the problem. The problem is in the drainage of the road. It is not draining properly. Councilman Wing: I'll address that for you. Just so on the record, what was your feeling and comments towards Mike Wegler today? Do you think he was very receptive and helpful and positive? Mrs. Hanes: I think he felt really bad. Councilman Wing: Okay, I just want to make that clear. Mrs. Hanes: ...standing there in the pouring rain crying and my son's crawling around and you know it's like what are you going to do. You know I called you a week ago and this is exactly what my fear was and I think he obviously felt really bad. And I felt bad being so upset but I Just feel that after I sat there and looked at it today after you guys left, I thought gee you know. It's plain as day that you don't have dirt up on this end. You don't have dirt up on this end. You've got it all in front of these two houses. There is a major problem here. The drainage, it's to me pretty obvious there's a drainage problem and it's not going into those grates. And I'm not an engineer so I don't know but you should have l~n there at 5:00 this morning like we were watching it pour over everything. 18 Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 Mayor Chmiel: Maybe I can ask Charles to make a comment. Charles Folch: If I could just make two comments. One being on Mike Wegler's behalf. His Job day to day is a fireman. He is nmning from fire to fire, p,~_ · ~o out whatever problem needs to be dealt with and he probably fccls bad that he didn't get to this one and he probably had half a dozen other fires which he thought were going to be bigger. More at the time problems to deal with th~ he needed to get done. Cer~__inly...it wasn't due to lack of tme__.rest or lack oL.. Mrs. Hanes: Oh I don't think it was anything inte~~. I didn't claim that but I must admit when I talked to him last Thursday morning and I said you know, I think we've been really paflem. This is thc fourth time this summer we have seen or laiked to people. We've asked wh~t_ is the problem and for him to say to me, well you know there's no-rain forecast and we've got other work to do. Well, it rained. Charles Folch: And again we get imo an issue about whether it's ach~lly the city's problem really at this point or whether it's the development's responsibility because until a development's furry developed and the lots are in and C~ery~_ tn~'s re2/tored, that's wh~re ht~ good fltith effort c2Rn¢ in ~ to take the notion, I will do it even though it's probably not my responsibility at this time but as soon as I can get to it type situation. But a commellt on the storm ~C. Typical storm sewer design is for a l0 year system through the pipes. I would say it's safe to say this morning that we exceed~ a 10 year storm. Councilman Wing: I'd like to comment on that Charles becmise I don't, looldn~ at the layout I concur with the neighbors. M~. Hanes: But when the street is dedicated to the city, isn't that the city's resixmsibiltty to keep the sewer cie, an? Charles Folch: Typically with a develotxne~ coxmact, no. But our dcvelolmm~t contxact, in flxis case it was tmfommatc but it's centered more towards a development where you have like a Joe Mlller or Lundgren Homes where they're acO_~ly building all the homes on all the lots and so if there's an erosion problem, if there's a dirty street, we. call them up and say listen. Get out there and dean it up or we're going to draw on your letter of credit. In this case here, as wc have a few of these that come through where the developer actually isn't res~ble for the lots. After they're sold and thru you've got a homeowner buil~ them so now we're dealing with a builder to try to m~nt~__tn erosioR control. A builder to try and clean up the street and things like that. It's a lot more dffiaflt for the city to do that bec_~o.se we have no teeth, we have nothing to sold them to get this work done. And typically no. Our responsibility in coming into maintain the. system is after everything is fully developed. As far as sWrm sewer goes, until the thing's fully developed. We go fllwugh and have a walk thru with the system and check all the ponds. In fact there's two ponds up in Summit Near Mountain that they're finally, full development has ocaured out them two years later and we're getting Lundgren Bros to come back OhO_ clean out two Ixmds that are completely silted in because of all the erosion problems that haptgned during thc home building. And they are coming back in to do 19 Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 But unfommately again, we have a separate issue here where the lots are sold to private individual builders. Councilman Senn: You know Don, unfortunately I think sometimes you know by the time these things get to Charles, they're kind of escalated problems. I think when I talked to Charles this morning, I think they really jumped on it and went out and really got it resolved. I think Charles has already come up with some ideas as we talked about possibly a way that the storm sewer needs to be redone to help deal with that problem and I ~tnk he's probably afraid to say too much about it because as any good engineer, they probably want to go study it real good and make sure it's going to solve the problem first and stuff. But you know and I know that doesn't make anything any easier on the homeowners and stuff but I really would like to see us take a hard look at seeing what relief we could provide for the homeowners because this has been kind of a recurring problem. And from the development standpoint, it's a difficult situation. Every lot in there is so, I mean it's my neighborhood. I know that. They're all under control of a whole bunch of d_ifferent people. And like Charles said, it's real hard to go in and enforce anything at this point. At least with our current ordinances. Mayor Chmiel: Don has mentioned something. We have one other Councilman who would like to say something. Councilwoman Dockendorf: Two other. Mayor Chmiel: Michael. Councilman Mason: Well, I think I want to get an underiytng issue here and we should settle this one first but apparently there's this huge gap here that's occurred and I don't, quite honestly the neighbors here don't care who's fault it is, they want it fixed and I could tell you an aside about pulling stakes up in my yard that's been freshly sodden and when the rain came this morning, I was just kind of like this all night, but it held. So I was lucky. You folks weren't. I pulled them out. Mrs. Hanes: Our's were staked. Councilman Mason: But I know and that's what I was told. If that's occurring, we've got to figure out a way then to hold these private builders responsible because the city, and rightfully or wrongfully is going to get left holding the bag everytime. And so we just, there's something wrong here and we've got to fix it. Councilwoman Dockendorf: Correct me if I'm wrong but that's the same situation that's going on in Tlmberwood. Where today the city was out there fixing culverts because we had a huge ice build-up problem over at Timberwood Drive and those are all individually developed pieces of land and the city was holding the bag. I mean they had to redo that. Whereas I understand if it had been a one development, one builder development, the developer would have done that. So I mean it's a similar issue so, and as part of the insurance claim, will the insurance company go out there and look at the road design and determine who's, if there is a liability? 20 Don Ashworth: Typically they have and I haven't seen the situation myself arid so I don't know all of the factors that arc involved. I mean they could. They do send an adjuster out but whether or not, what decision that adjuster will come back with, I don't know. Councilman Senm I think this is an issue that will bc back before us...for tbe reason ~ I don't know an insurance policy in the world th~ covers surface or subsurfa/~ water damage. The only thing that covers that is federal flood plain insumn~ and you can't buy ~Aeml flood plain insurance unless you live in a flood plain. And so I mean we can pass it off to thc insumn~ people, but the Council needs to understand that...coming back to us because they'H come fight back at us. Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, but that's where it has to go first. Coun~lman Senn: No, I undemand. Mayor Cbmlel: And the process has to go through. So we will have that done. Councilman Wing: SU~ a comment before... I got a phone call lxxlay from a teary e~d, sobbing woman and I said, oh no. And you weren't home or you would have been there. So I got in my car and I went over ~ somewhat tmmorously. You know I could, ~i~ little old gray lady in a rocking chair you know, and I took one look and I can see why she was teary eyed. It was tragic. I've never seen anything like it. I've got a lot that's kind of sandwiched between two homes because I built tim and have chronic problems but the city rebuilt the street and has resolved some of it. A couple Issues here. Number one, I have never seen that big of an area draining to that small of a drain in my ltfe. We're talking major ad-de-sacs and incredible., it's like an amphitheater dr~ to one central drain and I don't care If it was a quarter inch rain, I don't think It can handle lt. It's one drain. That's all there is to tt. So I think that there's some real issues here like Mark said with the entire ~on itself. I don't think if that holding pond had been opened that it would have made a bit of difference here. And we have a history now. The 8ec, ond thing that troubles me is that even ff everything was sodded, and in fact holding water, it's still going to drain to the same central spot. I think Mark's more familiar with this than I am. I think we have a major design problem. I mean the road needs to be angled the other way. We need to have berm, built. I mean there's some major consUuaion to solve this problem, including the driveways and aH. Thirdly, the yards are bad to begin with. Regardless of what we did. ff we stopped aH the problems from the sUcet, you've got troubles the rest of your life in lhose homes because they're in an area _th_st they're going 1D collect their own water and funnel them fight between the houses and it's going to keep washing out. That's 1% of the trouble. What really troubles mc, is Bonestroo still here? Did Phil walk out on me? We spent a fortune dealing with Lotus Lake and retention of storm water and trying to get that lake, and that thing was so silted today I was dumbfounded. As far as I could see into lhe lake, it was a mud hole. That entire 10-12 acres, 6 acres, whatever it is, is diaining off of there as fast as it can drain through these yards fight into Lotus Lake. It's like we never had a storm water project to be~n with. I don't think it's legal that that's even occurring. There's so much silt, so much rtmoff, so much damage occuning from that neighborhood, that's got to be dealt with. I mean that's not even legal under a storm water work that we took. So that troubles me greatly. I think you need to be out there tomorrow with Bonestroo looking at that whole netghbofliood saying, this whole thing is draining through their yard 21 Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 into Lotus Lake and causing more damage than any other project I've seen since we began this. So that's a real issue. And again, I will only say that I support these people in their, this is a dire situation. I'm not being emotional. This is the worst I've ever seen. I've never seen that much damage to those expensive type walls and that much sod flood, I mean floated away. It just floated down to the lake. Mrs. Hanes: ...this morning... Councilman Wing: Well and the point that the city tried to make is it should have been staked out. The point is it was staked down and it uplifted and simply disappeared and I've never seen anything like it. You had to be there to see it so to the lady that called me teary eyed, I apologize for thi~idng in a negative way. You were well justified. Mrs. Hanes: ...everyone who was here, really impressed with the fact that so many people did show up to the site. It's unfortunate that it has to take this because this is now several, several thousands of dollars later. Ron Hanes: I guess I take issue specifically with the design that was approved by the city that funnels water off of two cul-de-sacs together. We have a 7% grade coming down here. We have 1% grade from this cul-de-sac this way into two lime catch basins. Or why this is coming this way. Councilman Wing: I might also point out that those graded lines are elevations. These are steep hills we're talking about. It's not a fiat area. I had no idea that the grades were that steep back there. That really surprised me. Considerable. Ron Hanes: ...the roads were funneled together this way. The water's coming from two directions with no place to go. Mayor Chmiel: The process will start and get your claims into the city with your request. Linda Bordals: ...I'd like a list of what they...each time. Don Ashworth: Along with the dates that it occurred. Councilman Senn: Charles did a nice job of solving two other ones out there earlier. This is the third one by the way in the neighborhood. Mayor Chmiel: Okay. I tell you my tables...is there anyone else at this time? Judy Anderson: Hello. My name is Judy Anderson and I live at 8584 Flamingo Drive and' I'm here representing the citizens of my area, which is Lake Susan Hills West, surrounding the Power Hill Park area. Myself and my neighbors would like to know what the status is of this Power Hill Park. This spring we were told that the no~ah end of the park would be graded and seeded and as we speak, the park basically remains weed infested and unusable. You can't even walk through it much less have 22 any children playing.in the park area. Homes adjacent to the park are having ~ problems keeping the weeds under control and the dover that we phnted in there is, it's Creeping up imo our yards. We realize that this has been a very wet year snd we've been very patient but now the summer is basically over and we're wondering, are we stuck with this siO__~on for another year or are there stiU plans to ~d_d_ress this this fail 8till? And also, if we are pushed off ~ year, does this mean that the rest of the development in the park, such as the playground area and things like that are also po~ for another year. Many of us moved inW this area because of the beam7 and the park thst was supposed to be put in here and we ali paid extra, you know inflated prices for our lots knowing that someday we would be backed up to _this park. And we're very disappointed so far at the pwgresa that's been made. We would like to hear a commitment from the city on what the plans ale srut ~ it will be done we'd like to see some improvement in this area. We want to know if there's any...or any decisions that have... We thought that in the springtime we thought it was taken care of and it was being addressed and so far we haven't seen anything out there or had any plDS~res8 in the area. I have here a petition that was circulal~ back in December of '92 which I'd like to read to you agsin and make you aware that since this time we've probably doubled the population in that neighhothood and if necessary, we will go around again and get more signs_rares on...we've got four pages full right now. It says, we the undersigned residems of the area of the north end of the pwposed Power Hill Pa& in the Lake Susan Hills West 8ubdivisioIl petition the Chailha88e~ City Parks Commi~on and ColHlCli to direct that the final grading and grass seeding be done early in the spring of 1993 in the open playfleld area north of the pond in the proposed Power Hill Park. This, with minimal city effort and expense will eliminate all troublesome and noxious weeds which have been growing there and allow for an open play area for the many small children living immediately adjacent to this park... Thank you. Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. Councilman Mason: Could I make a quick commcm~ Mayor Chmiel: I thought maybe we could have just Todd. Councilman Mason: Well I have a reason for wanting to axnment I lalked with Judy and Susan last night and if you would have given me 12 hours, I would have cafl~ you and told you that I talked with Todd and they're now working in conjunction with the pack at ~ Hills, righff Because you've got machinery over there now and so wealher permitting it's going to happen as soon as tomorrow, fight? I mean relatively speaking. Todd Hoffinam I can address that. The grading of Power ttlil Park was a 1993 capitsl improvement project. We work with a park maimenance crew and a public works crew here with Charles Fold: We've turned them into a capital improvement crew to try to sUelch our park dollars. That is a prudent thing to do in that respect but it takes time to get the nmcbine~ and get the people out to the park site to do the gro_d_ing. Looking into the fall schedule, the petition which came in, I called a meeting with Mike Wegler, Dale Gregory and myself on Tuesday, August 17th. We discussed this project specifl~y and I asked them, and they did get to Pheasant Hills, that they work between these two park sites because they'll be doing the same thing. Rough and finish grading with seeding so we can get that seed in this fall yet so we have it up and growing next spring. So again, as Coundlman 23 Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 Mason has stated, that is the case and they hope to be out there within the next week. Mayor Chmiel: Good. Thank you. ASSESSMENT HEARINGS: LILAC LANE IMPROVEMENT PRO~ECT 91-4. Charles Folch: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council...staff report, the Hilloway Corporation developer for the Ithilien subdivision has...20% assessment of the project cost...These were conditions that were spelled out in the development contract...There is one correction that I have in paragraph two... establish Improvement costs. That number again was actually the construction. The Improvement cost was actually...I should also point out or reiterate the fact that, at the feasibility hearing the Ctty Council authorized a connection charge, trunk sewer conrw~on charge to the four properties adjacent to the project. That resolution is also Included tn the packet We have renotifted all the property owners of this connection charge and confirm that an assessment at this time...charge that would be paid should be...Those properties Involved are the Plckard, Ware, Natole and Johnson properties. The developer is I See here tontght, Mr. Jim Fenning and I guess I'll tam it over, see tf Jim wants to speak on tiffs. Jim Fenning: My name is Jim Fenlatng. I live at 1551 Hunter Drive in Wayzata. First of all I want to thank the staff because we did this project in a very difficult time last fall and they I think bent over backwards to help me get it done. So I'm not upset with staff here. I'm upset with the consulting engineer because last year in July when this was first brought to you people, and talked to me about, we were told that the project was going to cost $55,000.00 and my share was going to be $11,000.00. Then all of a sudden it's $22,000.00. And the project has doubled tn price. I under, I agreed to 20% of the project and that's what I'm going to pay so, I just hope that you people don't mn into tiffs on your other public projects because tt will eat you alive. And it Just bothers me that the consulting engineer...and so in my development agreement I escrowed, or put into escrow $15,000.00 and 99% of tt ts done or completed wtth the project so you've got $28,000.00 or 10% of the total project cost escrow the excess was $28,000.00. I'd ask that the difference be paid out of my excess charge...I don't know if that requires Council action or not. Mayor Chmiel: Roger. Roger Knutson: Is there enough extra money in the escrow account7 Charles Folch: At this time there is, yep. Roger Knutson: That would just be a, staff can handle that. Mayor Chmlel: Just normal, okay. Councilman Mason: Mr. Fenning? Excuse me, because I quite honestly don't remember that long 24 Chanlmssea City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 ago. What were you originally quoted? Jim Fenning: $11,000.00. This is on a staff report for July 13, 1992. The project, okay. Here's happened. First of all there were cost ovemms and then I think there were $2.~,000.00 of indirect costs which I didn't anticipate and didn't, I thought they were, that's what upsets me I ~ Councilman Masan: No, I don't fault you for thaL Mayor Cbmiel: Yeah, it's the consulting engineer who provided those cost e~ms_te8 ~ has no reflection back to the city. Councilman Mason: Oh, I'm well aware of that. I'm just thinktn8 of Minnewashta snd some other Councilwoman Dockendorf: Yeah, in my brief tenure I keep heafln~ aho~ Councilman Mason: And I'm not directing any of this at the City. Okay. Mayor Chmiel: I just thought that that mad was never going to get done. Charles. Charles Folch: Jim does raise a good point. It's unfortunate timing wise son of caused a little bit of this~ He's correct I think the original estim~ back in July was $~5,000.00 and I don't believe, that was a construction cost estimate. I don't believe it was included in indirect cost of just en/tneerlng and the whole 9 yards. And actually that was a number that was quoted prior to the city receiving bids. I think the contract csme in at, the constmaion contraa came in at about $69,000.00 ra~r than $55,000.00 when it was actually bid out. Partly because it was mw.h a small project and it was bid out towards, well towards going into the fall season last year. We only had tw~ comracurrs that even bid on the Job. There wasn't that much inter~ for it. But I do go back to Mr. Nenntn~ it was an unfortunate situation and then we had the wet w~ conditions this spring that didn't help ~ either. But there's some extraneous chcums~mces that all kind of, certainly we don't want to have a project either because he's only picking up 20% of the extra cost. The city's picking up the extra~ I mean we watch dollar for dollar if there's a way we can save dollars or... Mayor Chmiel: Thanks Jim. Mayor Chmiel: Okay, can I have a motion from ~? Or any other discussions. Councilman Senn: I move approval. Councilwoman DockeadorP.. I'll secixui it. Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 Mayor Chmiel: It's been moved and seconded. Any other discussions7 Michael, do you? Councilman Senn: I think that's a separate issue we need to discuss. Councilman Mason: Well it is a separate issue but the thing that irritates me is this is the third time tonight I've thought, huh. This is a separate issue. There's an underlying problem here. And I kind of feel like all of this is going on and nobody can identify what the problem is. I mean if costa, you know when I had my house built for me, I was given how much it was going to cost and that was what it cost. If I wanted more, I paid more. If I wanted less, now I know I'm going from building this tiny little home to this improvement but why do things always balloon like this? And why aren't people let know as the steps go that they're ballooning? I mean why, and I'm not ragging on the city on this. I don't get it. Mayor Chmiel: Yeah. UnforUmately it's all those things that get pulled together with this and it's ...what the estimates come in at. In that kind of a situation, and that time of year, you don't have as many bidders coming in to get a better cost. And the city has no bearing factor on that. It's one of those unfo~ situations. Councilman Mason: Well then I guess I think we have a responsibility to the citizens to, and maybe Mr. Fenning has been let known along the way what's going to be happening, I don't know. But I hope people aren't getting blind sided by stuff like this. Mayor Chmiel: Yeah. No, I would hope not. Councilwoman Dockendorf: My concem is more specific to the consulting firm. In my tenure on the Council thts is the second or third, at least time that this consultant has been called on the carpet and I'm just wondering, shouldn't we take a closer look when we bid out these projects. I mean maybe they've just had a streak of bad luck but I don't know. It gets kind of questionable. I mean you have a lot more history than I do with him. Charles. Charles Folch: ...on Bill's behalf is we usually give btm the bad projects, the ones, the projects we know are going to be the toughest and...the ones we'll need a lot of hand holding and babysitting. Councilwoman Dockendorf: Oh, that could be a good explanation. Jim Fenntng: Then he should know how to estimate... Councilman Wing: I think that's Mike's point. Councilman Mason: I guess that would be my next point. I mean I understand trouble shooting. Believe me. And obviously Council's in a bad mood tonight but boy, I don't know. I mean neighbors yards are disappearing and $20,000.00 more dollars is getting spent than planned and I don't want to take it anymore. 26 City Oaur~ Meeting - September 13, 1993 Mayor Chmiel: The sun was not nhintn~, Councilman Mason: Boy I guess not. Don Ashworth: I'm unaware that Eng¢lhardt had anyfldng to do with Kurv~rs Point. They hired their own engineer. They submiU~ the plans. We had approved them~ Euge~ didn't have anything to do with Kurve~ Point did he? CoUl~Cilman Magoa: No. No. Don Ashworth: And to the be~R of my knowledge, Mtnnewashta Parkway is going to stay on budget. Bluff Creek came on budget. Frontier Trail. ColRi~lman M~8on.' Well, there were some other problems with l~nn~ashta. Don Ashworth: Oh, no question. When we had a snowfall on Halloween, that was a major problem out there and it created a major problem but it was not a cost estimate type of a problem and I think that any engineer that would have had that project, and had the snowfall on Halloween, would have had a big problem. Councilman Wing: The only question I bad; I pigg}~__t-~ on bfflm, is if Mr. Fenning is estimated at $12,000.00 roughly and then suddenly it's coming in at $22,000.00. Isn't there a step along the way to say start saving and put money away. Councilman Senn: Maybe in one of our work sessio~ we could talk about engineer conttac~ Councilman Masoll: But if that's the case, then I think there needs to be some ktnt)~ of cap or something. Mayor Cluniel: But I think some of those things ~ that you have to look at Moo is the h~_trect costs that were associated with it as well. And that's where it sometimes comes in. So with that I have a motion and a second on the floor. Any other discussion? Resolution g93-84: Councilman Senn moved, Councilwoman Dockendorf seconded to adopt the 20% aszessment of the improvement costs of Lilac Lane from Teton Lane east to Powers Boulevard (County Road 17) Project No. 91-4 in the ammmt of $22,314.41 to Hilloway Corporation, developer for Ithilien subdivision as previously agreed to and outlined in the Ithilien development contract for a term of 8 years at 7 1/29~. Ail voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 UPPER BLUFF CREEK TRUNK UTILITIES, PHASE I, PROJECT 91-17A. Public Present: Name Address Dennis David Stockdale Chan Land Partners 7210 Galpin Blvd. Charles Folch: Mr. Mayor, members of Council. We'll start out with our project engineer, Phil Gravel of Bonestroo to give a brief overview of the project elements... Mayor Chmiel: And I'd like Phil to specifically address those two homestead properties as well regarding the green ~res aspect. Charles Folch: Actually, in fact I'll take care of that when Phil is done. Councilman Mason: Phil, do you have your rack jacket on tonight Phil? Phil Gravel: What I'd like to do is first review briefly the construction that occurred and then go over the total costs and then review the assessment area. And finally I'll touch on a few specific parcels that have raised questions. For any of you that don't remember, this is the first phase of what will probably be a 3 or 4 phase project. What's shown here is the sanitary sewer. The construction, I'm sorry I didn't finish my green line, consisted of connecting onto an existing city interceptor which parallels the MWCC's Lake Ann Interceptor and we constructed a gravity sanitary sewer up to Audubon Road and then...santtary sewer construction consisting of a gravity sewer extending westward along Lyman Blvd, then north along the power line easement to the open field area there. And then continuing west through the Hans Hagen development The major sanitary sewer Installation in this project was what has been called the Taj Malift Station located down near Lyman and Audubon. The watermatn was not quite as substantial but was significant nonetheless. The watermaln construction consisted of extending a 12 inch diameter watermaln south along Audubon Road to the lift station site and also extending east and west tnmk watermaln through the Oumhassen Business Center site and through the Hans Hagen home site. The intent of that watermain to eventually loop up north to the existing Well #3 site and some of that construction is currently under way. I'll briefly go over the sanitary sewer, or all the assessments. These are consistent with the city's recent policy of funding the trunk sewer and water assessments. Essentially we have a mink area sanitary sewer assessment rate of $970.00 per equivalent unit. And a mink area watermain assessment rate of $1,275.00 per equivalent unit. In addition on this project we have lateral sanitary sewers and lateral watermaln assessments. You'll note on my oveflaead here that these rates have gone down from what we estimated in the preliminary report. These rates are based on having it cost and we had good bids on this project so the watermaln rates went down from $23.00 to $15.00 per assessable foot for an 8 inch equivalent and from $30.00 to $22.00 per assessable foot for a 12 inch. Total assessments for this phase of the project total to $1,298,018.00 for santtary sewer and $1,232,405.00 for watermaln. 28 City Council Mee~ - Selra~ber 13, 1993 Pinally, the assessment area for this Imaject which is shown as in orange here. The slm'red properties are those pro~rties which initially petitioned in this project and were the impetus for the Pebnmry '92 report for this entire Bluff Creek projecL And also because they are essenflal/y ~ most significant properties within this area and they are the reason that the adjoining prope~es are having to face assessments. The remaining properties within the Upper Bluff ~ area that are not colored there will be ~ in future phases. We've had the r~ort for Phase IL I assume that Phase In may go next year which will be the Chanhassen Park and Center area. Since the notices for this assessment hearing have gone out, aroon0 four ~es have expressed concerns over their assessmenm. The first prope~ Is property $~2 which is the Lake Susan Hills ~. Don Patll~ property. The letter that they submitted did not specifically list any reasons for their objections to the assessme~ other than they objected to iL Our reslxmse to that is that the as~ssme~ that we ~ is consistent with the overall assessme~ for everyone else and consistent with the policy adopted so based on their letter, there's still no~ that we would re-evaluate and nothing that would warrant any amendment to the assessment. Another ~ owner that had expressed concern was Mr. David Sl~kdale, who's ~hown as property #4 on here. He questioned the area caimllaflon and I met with him and we went over that and he's ~ now. He was here. I don't believe he's goin~ to ac,~lly submit a formal objection. The third property was the Chan Land property which is the area mprese~ by ~. The area norfla of the Twin Cities Western Railroad. Their objection was th_m_ they did not feel they should be included in the Phase I and the preliminary assessment role was approved in February 8 of '92 and flint the tnmk sewer and water utilities to service that ~ are il~ There's both sewer _ami water the~ to service that ~ so we feel it's justifiable that they be assessed at this time. And the~refore we don't think that any action needs to be taken based on their letter. The final ~ that we're aware of that has concerns is the Chanhassen Business Center site and they're here this evening ~ will pl'ese~ thB ~ list of concerns they have for the site. Our respouse to that is that none of what we anticline th~ concerns there's anything that they wili prese~ that would ~ a revision to the assessme~ roll So most importantly they're justifiable. I'll be here to answer any questions. Charles Folch: Mr. Mayor, City Council. There are...residents out there that I would go on record and verify what I've included in my staff repon and also a letter that was sent to but there are four properties involved in this service area that are mitrenfly under green acres status. Their net assessable acreage plus the 10 acres. They're homesteaded propeRies and at the time of the feasibility heating, we discussed with the property owners that being under green acres they would basically the assessm~ levy would go deferred. They had raised some questions about having it going with inmrest and basically going back to the Minutes, the Council esflma~ at tl~ ~me that the assessments would be levied as these green acre properties ~d basic~y what would ~ is that at such time as...the property would subdivide or contact to the city system, they would pay the city's tnmk hook-up charge, wh__m_ever that rate would be. That current year that they were in that and each year that basic~ly...hook up charge is adjusted based on consm~on com..So they ~.. 29 Ehanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 Mayor Cluniel: Good. Thank you. Is there anyone wishing to address some of the discussions that Phil has just had? Councilman Senn: Could I ask Phil a clarifying question? Mayor Chmiel: Sure, go ahead. Councilman Senn: Phil, in the earlier maps that I got with the staff report said this was not included in the assessment area, yet it is on your overhead. I just want to make sure which way it ts and ff there was any. An the change or what. Phil Gravel: That area should be included in. The staff report is actually a photocopy or a color photo that we gave to City staff and they doctored it up. It's just an oversight. Councilman Senn: And that's not a recent addition or anything? Phil Gravel: No, that's always been there. Mayor Chmiel: Are any of you wishing to come forward. Please state your name and your address so we can have this for our file. Dennis: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council. My name is Dennis...with Audubon Land Partnership and we are the owners of the Chanhassen Business Center. Again we do not have a problem with the dollar amount being assessed...We have been working with Phil Gravel and Charles Folch on the project. We are in the process of putting in sewer, sanitary sewer and streets in the Phase I of the development to service the Weather Service ltutt you people...and in starting the project and doing our grading this summer, we encountered some soils that were not compacted. They do not meet compaction and our concern that we brought up with Charles and with Phil is that that material is still in place. We really can't build a road over the top of it. The road would fall and we are continuing to work with Charles and Phil and in about the next 10 days we will have completed our, hopefully completed, if the weather stays good, completed the sanitary sewer through that time. We will probably correct a good share of the soil problem above or in that water trench. But there would be areas that we probably will not correct and that would not be a part of our normal work. We have done some, or ran some numbers on it. It does get to be a worst case situation can be a very large number. We don't think it will get to be that point. What we would like to do is to ask you to delay or defer this assessment until your next Council meeting to give us a chance to continue to work with Phil and Charles and we'll have a better idea of where we're at and I think that we can speak better to it at that point. Councilwoman Dockendorf: And your purpose for doing that is to get a better idea? DeNnis: We expect to be correcting it just because we're in, our sewage trench, that overlaps some of the water trench that's there. And the water trench does not meet density. We cannot build a road over that trench fight now without some major expense to us. So a good share of it will be, should 30 City Council Meeting - ~nber 13, 1993 be corrected...normal work during the next 2 weeks. Councilwoman Dockendoff: So you expect a reduction in your assessm~ bex, mtse you'll be fi,ring that7 Dennis: No, we don't expect a reduction in our assesmnent. We just expect the problem will be correcled. We undemand to work with staff and Phil to correct this si_m~on. If we look at it right now, today, going in and dig.~n~ it out and taking care of it is probably $100,000.00 item. But because we're in there and we're doing our sewer work, we will correct it anyway. We expect them could be some additional correction that would have to be made and that's just one point of view... Mayor Cluniel: Okay, thank you~ Cl~sttes, is there a ~c time line designed with this as to getting all these together? Can we exclude one frmn it ff we so choose? What's your normal process? I know our attorney has leR and you're just the engineer. Charles Folch: I guess that's a question for Roger. I've never been involved where someone in the assessment roll... Mayor CJ~mlel: I see two things hem. There's basically a soil problem as you're mentioning. But even delaying the assessment, if you're going to do the correction to what's existing. The 2 week time line. I guess I don't quite understand that part of it. If your s,~essment's lower th~ what was anticipated, number one. And number two, you will correct it once you put the sewer in. Tryin8 to determine what's the time frame basic need. Charles Folch: As Dennis mentioned, ~hey anticipate, they hope to have their work/kine in the next 10 days pending favorable weather conditions. I guess basically what ~ if it's not done in time. I'm not sure what we gain 10 days from now that we don't know now. Mayor Chmiel: 'lifts doesn't become payable until next year, is th~ correct? Charles Folch: Well our engineer and their engineer, our soil person, their soil pe~on cominue W disagree and there's a chance that there's not a potential soil problem. And my position would be, ff it is found that there is a potential soil problem, we will work with those people. With our conlracWr, the Audubon Patmership to rusolve...They have a els_ira ags_tnst the city for something sq~h as a soil problem, that's lnv, spec~e of the assessment mil and establt~htn~ to detgrmtne benedtts applied to this site... The utilities are in_ They can be used to serve the site. That's the question to answer here tonight There's a separate claim due to work that was done with soil correcting or something, and that's found to be true lamr on, that's a separate issue. Mayor Cbmlel: Yeah, it doesn't really affect the as~.~mem portiov. That's what I was trying to, okay. Dennis: The only thin8 I was going to say again was to reiterate that in 2 wee, ks we would know how much of a problem we have at that point in _time. R could be extremely minimal But we're 31 Chanhassen Ctty Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 concemed that we're being assessed for a project that we're not comfortable with. Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Does Council have any other questions at the time? Councilwoman Dockeudorf: What's to be lost by delaying it 2 weeks? Mayor Cluniel: Well that was the question I had. From a legality aspect, can we. Roger, can we adopt? Roger Knutson: Yes. Mayor Chmiel: Yes? You were standing outside listening? Roger Knutson: I was told the question on the way ~ Mayor Chratel: Okay. Yes we can. Yes Phil. Phil Gravel: Our opinion has been, and it's been expressed by all three parties here, or ~oth parae , that the assessment for this site is not being disputed. The purpose of delaying things 2 w~ks would really serve no function whatsoever. And Charles pretty much explained that. Essentially all we'd do is Just come back here in 2 weeks from now and take more of your lime. The purpose of the meeting tonight is to decide whether or not the city wants to adopt this assessment roll as proposed. And with the exception of the properties that I've gone over, no one is really opposing that adoption. Delaying things 2 weeks is not going to change anything...Tbe issues that we have, the construction issues can and should be handled administratively. Mayor Chmtel: Alfight. Is there anyone else wiahtng to address this assessment at this time? seeing none. Any comments? Mark. Councilman Senn: I don't really see any problem with the assessment or anything. I don't know, it sounds like there's a potential there of some fairly significant dollar mounts. Granted they have nothing to do with the assessment, since I'm sure some people have to live within budgets, those are probably somewhat frightening to look at the potential of $100,000.00 expenditure. I mean ff there's no reason this has to pass tonight and if a 2 week delay isn't going to hurt anything one way or the other and it would help in that comfort level, I guess I don't see a problem with that. But if the rest of the Counetl feels that it should go ahead tonight, I guess I ltk~wtse don't see a problem with that but I would like to see some reports back from staff then on how they cl~tm resolution or how that problem resolution is going so it's just not simply a forgotten issue because we passed the assessments and gone forward with it. Councilman Mason: I basically agree with what Mark is saying. I'm trying to figure out what the connection Is between the added cost to the road and what the assessment are. I mean the assessment's not going to change at all, right? 32 Chanhassen City Council Meefln~ - September 13, 1993 Phil Gravel: There is no connecflor~ Councilman Mason: Well, okay. I mean if fbi, truly is a comfort level issue ami it doesn't make any difference to the city one way or another, I don't guess I particularly care. I mean if the aaaessment is getting, then maybe the question is, well do we pa~ it Wnight or do we pa~ it 2 weeks from now? So what's going to ~ if the comfort level, I don't know. I don't get it. I don't get tC Phil Gravel: I really doubt if we're going to know much more in 2 wee~. Councilman Mason: Well yeah. Yeah. Phil Gravel: That's my concer~ This issue has been addressed substantially by staff. We have given the developer our opinion on the m~__~. That is...It's not like this is a new issue. CoLmdlwoman Dockendorf: Well both of you guys are going to go along with whoever decides what, I guess I'll make the decision and just say let's pass it toni~t Get it done with. ' Cound~ wu~: ~s tha~ a motion? Councilwoman Dockendorf: Sure. That's a motion- Councilman Wing: Second it. Councilman Senn: Would you accept a friendly amefldmen$ though that ff you're ~oin~ to move the passage of the assessmen~ that we get some form of feedback and report back from staff regardin8 resolution of this problem so it is not forgotten abou~ ~imply because the assessmem is being passed on7 We have a tendency to do th~ Once we have an 8sse. s~me~ passed, it's done. Councilwoman Dockendoff: Good idea. Mayor Cbmiel: Okay. There's a motion on the floor with a second. Any other discussion? If not, I'll call a question- Resolution 093-8S: Councilwoman Dockendorf moved, Coundlman Wing seconded to adopt the 8~sessment roll for the Upper Bluff Creek Trunk Utility Improvements-Phase I, Project 91-17A dated August 2S, 1993 with an assessment term payback of 10 years at an 8~ interest rate. With a note that staff bring back an update on the resolution of the street problem with Chanhassen Business Park. Ali voted in favor and the motion carri~ unanimously. 33 Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 PUBLIC HEARING: VACATION OF A UTILITY AND DRAINAGE EASEMENTS~. 1690 KOEHNEN CIRCI,E~ DAVID AND CINDY ROUSE. Sharmin Al-Jaff: In 1990, June 1 lth of 1990 the City Council approved a simple subdivision which consists of two parcels .... one parcel into two parcels. This is the old property line. The owner of the property came to the City staff and requested an administrative subdivision which basically moves this line further to the west. This was done. However, it left a utility and drainage easement that needs to vacated and that requires City Council vote. The reason why this is before you today and we are recommending approval of this vacation with conditions outlined in the report. Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. As I mentioned, this is a public hearing. Is anyone wishing to address this at this time7 Cindy Rouse: I'm Cindy Rouse. I live at that address. This letter that we Just received is the first time we knew we were being asked to add onto the easement size and I kind of wondered about that. Sharmin A1-Jaff: Dave Hempel was...application and he rea_ltzed that there is a road that will be going. Cindy Rouse: It's being built fight now. Sharmin AMaff: Correx:t. At any time when we have a front yard, we require a 10 foot wide drainage and utility easement and that's why Dave is requesting the additional 5 feet. Cindy Rouse: Okay, I was just kind of curious why we were not told about this and I also wanted to know, does this mean we cannot plant trees... Sharmin A1-Jaff: What we've always said ts...that are there and if you build any trees, then the city would not be held liable if we need to go in and ~ any lines for the utility and drainage easements. Mayor Chmiel: If it went within the easement? If you stayed a foot back from that easement, you wouldn't have any problems as long as you're on your own property. And you wouldn't dedicate that easement. Cindy Rouse: The road they're building right now, are they planning on going into this area now? I mean is this really necessary? Councilman Senn: If I'm understanding your question right, the $ foot they're ta_lking about around this is beyond the roadway. Cindy Rouse: It's another extra 5 foot" Councilman Senn: You probably don't want to plant them anyway. It's usually where the snowplow puts all the snow and salt and everything else and it's basically, like I say for most of us, we have a 34 10 foot strip out there and the 5 foot there would give them a mintmn_l ltrea tO have c,l~ basically for those purposes and stuff. I mean that's generally the way it works. Shannin AI-Jaff: And it's only an additinn_n_i 5 feet right here. Because this is going to be a comer lot and this is a city ordinance. Whomever you have a front yard or a yard, a property line that abuts public right-of-way, you have to have a 10 foot easement. Mayor Chmiel: Yes. This is Cindy. Councilman Wing: If she's not awnre of this 5 feet and doem~'t unde~stnnd it, it maybe is an h~proprinl~ time to try nnd explain it nnd perluq~ if we tabled this ,mt! next meeting, ~he'd have time to meet. Cindy Rouse: No, I gue~ we'tl go along with it because we want the other ease~ off but we Just didn't know nbout it until we I~ot the ~ort l~lay that thi, wns being done. It just ~emed kind of strange. Mayor Cluniel: Well it's the normal proce~ thnt the city goe~ throu~ for anyone thnt has thnt ktnd of a lot in and adjacent to what Sharmin had explained. Com~lwomnn Dockendorf:. And it's not conn~x~ed t~ the vacation of the easeme~ It's ~t compl~ly Cindy Rouse: Well the letter makes it sound like it is contingent on it. Councilwoman Dockendorf: No. It's not continent upon it. Do you unde~_n~ the reason for the easement? It's still your prope~ and you can build on there but a~ Sharmin said, if we need to go maintain that sewer line or that wnter line, then the city's n~t held liable for any damnge that ~. Cindy Rouse: And we have no place... Councilwoman Dockendo~ No, that applies to all residen~ in the city. Cindy Rouse: Then ! don't understnnd how that's even connect~ in with this then nctunlly, Councilwoman Doc, kendorf: I think it's probably just coincidence because the road is being built at the _time. Or no? lV~tyor Otmiel: No. Councilwoman Dockendo~ I'm completely wrong he~ I'm ~orry. 35 Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 Sharmin A1-Jaff: The reason why we put it in this report is because, if we approve the vacation, we really don't have any leverage left over this property to get any additional... Mayor Chmiel: That's really what it boils down to. Yeah. Councilman Senn: Because this isn't under a development contract or anything like most of them are. And we're swapping 10 feet for 10 feet effectively fight? By vacating the other easement. Cindy Rouse: We already gave another easement Another easement already. The new easement on the other side. Councilman Senn: But $ feet. You're vacating 10 feet in the middle and you're swapping it for $ feet on this side and 5 feet on this side, correct? Sharmin AI-Jaff: Correct. Mayor Chmiel: That's right. Do you understand that? In other words, you're still going to have the additional 5 feet. Cindy Rouse: We're going to have an extra 5 feet though is my understanding of it. Mayor Chmiel: Yes, that's correct. Councilman Senn: Then I'm misunderstanding. Mayor Chmiel: What? Councilman Senn: I thought we were vacating an interest in 10 feet and switching it 5 feet on this side and 5 feet on this side, which means they're not giving up an additional 5 feet. Then that in effect is equal. Mayor Chmiel: She's giving 5 feet up on this side. Councilman Senn: But overall it would be equal. Mayor Chmiel: That's correct. Right. Councilman Wing: Do you accept this7 Cindy Rouse: We have to. Councilman Wing: No you don't. Cindy Rouse: ...we'll take it. 36 Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 Councilman Wing: You have a fight to have this clarified and meet with staff aH next week and make sure you're comfortable with what they're dot_ ng and why. Cindy Rouse: We'll tnke it. Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Thank you Cindy. Can I have a motion? Councilman Senn: I move approval. Mayor Cluniel: Now just a minute. Hold the phone before I do thnt. Let me close. Is there anyone else addre~ing thi~? Co~n~lman V~mg.' ! move we close the public hearing. Councilman Wing n~ved, Counciinum M~on ~econded to close the public he, u-lng. All voied in favor and ~he motion c~rried. The public heari~ w~ clo~l. Mayor Chmiel: Now can I have a mo~ion to accept that vacatio~ Councilman Senn: I don't want to speak too soon. So moved. Mayor Chmiel: I agree. Councilman Mason: And I, God I know what I'm sounding like tonight here but, and maybe it's one of those things again that it's nobody's fault but I think the Rouse's and anyone else, I mean ~his is getting something in the mail like this on the day that they're hoping all is to go through, I would guess was a little mystifying and somewhat upsettl__ ng. And I ~ I mean every home in Chanhassen has a 10 foot easement off their property so what's happening to you, I mean is happe~ to everyone in the city as far as I know. But I gue~ the point I'm making here is it sotmds to me question but. Councilman Wing: West 78th Street? Are you going to bring up West 78th Street? Councilman Mason: Well, that will come at another time. But I'm sorry that the Rouse's had to go through this but I hope we can work on some... Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. 37 Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 Resolution #93-86: Councilman Senn moved, Councilman Wing seconded to approve Request ~s)2-7, vacation of utility and drainage easement legally described in Attachment #1 contingent upon the applicant dedicating an additional 5 feet of drainage and utility easement for a total width of 10 feet along the east lot line of Parcel B. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. PUBLIC HEARING: APPROVE RESOLUTION ADDING CORRUGATED CARDBOARD~ MAGAZINES~ AND MIXED PAPER AS TARGETED I~ECYCLABLES. Sharmin Al-$aff: The City currently recycles al _u_ mlnum, plastic, glass, and newspaper. The haulers already recycle corrugated cardboard, magazines and mixed paper, although it's not mandated by the city or by the ordinance. So we are recommending that the City Council add corrugated cardboard, magazines, and mixed paper as targeted recyclables to the list of items to be recycled. Mayor Chmiel: Good. Is there any specific way we have to prepare the corrugated cardboard? Do we just put it out? Or is there a process that we have to go through? Shannin Al-Jarl: We need to bundle it. Basically cut it up into probably a foot wide strips and then just bundle it and put it on the curb. Councilwoman Dockendorf: Will we have some instructions? Councilman Mason: You're kidding me? Why do we have to cut it into one foot strips? Mayor Chrniel: It carries more into the vehicle probably when it's bundled. Sharmin Al-$aff: There is a hauler here and that's how I've always done it because that's how I was told... Councilman Mason: I'm just curious. I mean if, great. I mean I'm glad they're doing it. Councilwoman Dockendorf: What are we doing in terms of public communication for this? Is the city responsible for public communication or will the haulers? Sharmin Al-Jarl: ...in the newsletter and make sure that we would... Councilwoman Dockendorf: And I know this isn't your issue Sharmin. That $o Ann's been handling all the recycle issues but when are we going to get more of the higher numbered plastics included? Do you have any idea? Sharmin Al-~Iaff: No I don't but we could have it as one of the new goals for the Recycling Commission to pursue it. Councilwoman Dockendorf: Great, 38 Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 Councilman Senn: Could we get a clarification on that cardboard7 I mean that really bothers me because if that's the rule, I seriously doubt if most people are going to do it. I mean that's a real Mayor Chmiel: Why don't we have one of fl~e business people who are associal~l wifl~ it come up here and at least give us his expertise. Tom Molene: Thanks but I feel like I really got put on the spot. Mayor Chmiel: No samples, is that what you're saying? Tom Molene: The burning question, corrug0/exL R should be folded or cut down to 3 x 3 size anti then bundled about a foot, like this. R should be fled up with twine or biodegradable rope. Strins. Heavy string I might add. The reason for this is g _e~_ n.~ it into the comparUnmt on the truck and the heavy strin8 is to kccp it together when we pick It up so it's not breaking all over and if you're working on a windy day, It som~mes works to the driver's dlsadv~e ff the corrugated, it's Just one less material we have to worry about blowing all over. Mayor Ouniel: So you've not lost any drivers? Cour~lman Se~m: So it doesn't have to be cut, it can he folded? Tom Molene: Yes. It does get tough to fold a refrigerator box. Councilman Senn: 3 x 3 I can handle. Tom Molene: My one concem here. Mayor Chmiel: I'm sorry, I missed your name~ Tom Molene: Oh I'm sorry. My name is Tom Mol_erie. I'm with Woodlake Sanitation. I'm one of the haulers currently in Chanlm~ert We attrcnfly do pick up the materials you're considering addln_,o to it. It hasn't been promoted but if it's been put out, we have picked it up. ff it's been prepared wrong, we've tried to pick it up and then tried to educate the people with a ~ generic thank you card that we have. My only concern here is on the mixed papei'. I would prefer if that were listed as mixed mail because that's what we're picking up now. If you put down mixed paper, that illclude21 everything within the household which if someone has a computer at home, it includes that which is very high quality paper. However, it also includes school papem. Stuff the kids bring home and this is such a wide variety of fi~rs they call it. The High School kids, that's okay for an office paper program or white paper program and all the schools have recycling programs now installed that point to thc mixture of paper coming out of it. We go to the other end of the spectrum, the elementary school end, you have co--on paper, which is not recyclable. You also have a lot of 8rmmd wood paper which is, if you think back to your kids when they were learning to write and they had the wide lined paper. You could see little brown ~ in there. That is actually pieces of wood. 39 Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 That's why they call it ground wood. But it's a low quality fiber material, very much opposite from pure paper, notebook paper, stuff like this. And seeing as how it is being addressed in the schools, there is recycling programs in most of the schools and additional programs for the children. I think It's a better use of those products in the schools rather than on the curb with the mixed mall. Cun~nfly that stuff is being made into tissue products, paper towels, totlet paper and stuff. Councilman Mason: What is mixed mail then? Tom Molene: Mixed mall is considered what comes in your mailbox. A lot of advertisements but the market's for it are very specffic and you have to make sure their recycling processes can deal with it and they have told us they can deal with what comes in the mailbox. Ed McMahon. Councilman Senn: I think education's going to be a real issue here. I would bet if we went down the table, every one of us already had a different definition of mixed paper. Councilman Mason: Well I learned something already tonight. Mayor Chmieh Well in other words what he's saying is basically the fiber contents within some of these papers are not reusable such as Wheaties boxes, things of that nature. Once a fiber becomes a certain point, it breaks down and cannot combine each other to make another kind of product. Tom Molene: Yeah, actually your cereal boxes, shoe boxes, cracker boxes, stuff like this is already a product of recycling. It's a mixture of recycled corrugated, white office paper and newsprint. And that, if you cam remember back to the days when they had Boy Scout drives and Church drives for paper, these institutions were getting paid $15.00 $20.00 a ton. When Homer-Waldorf couldn't get enough newspaper, they would use the cereal boxes, shoe boxes, it's called box board by the way, as a substitute but it was not as desirable a substitute as newsprint. So It's the corrugated. The cardboard with the fluting in the middle. Councilman Wing: Tom an issue, as long as you're up here, if you don't mind me hitting your expertise again. I've been watching our neighborhood's recyclables and pick-ups and one of the concerns, you've been at the meetings, with the number of trucks in the neighborhoods and the damage to the street. I'm finding that bt-weekly, I'm skipping weeks on pick up for recyclables because even though we have a fairly large, active family, by the time I get a big bag of plastic bottles, or cans or whatever the case is, it's kind of bi-weekly and I'm finding that the neighbors are tn the same boat. We're either carrying out tiny little batches of stuff with 2 and 3 bottles, or whatever. Or we're letting it go a week or 2 or 3. We're able to carry out a box full. What do you think about going bi-weekly? My hauler, I almost feel bad about having him stop weekly because he's stopping for nothing but if he was to stop bi-weekly, he would have content, one less trip and maybe a lot less money involved. Tom Molene: You're right to a certain extent. However, weekly participation is more of a promotion to recycle. People tend to get frustrated with the bi-weekly. They figure, they miss their schedule... and it has to sit around a month and you see a lot more of it going into the trash. I currently live in Clmnhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 a city with bi-weekly collection_ I don't dare throw it in the garbage ~ so I put up with the pile but a lot of people don't, Just plain and simple. Councilman Wing: That's good. Thank you. Councilman Senn: I had a question regarding waxed paper. Does that fall into here anywhere? I mean most food products come in waxed papem. That's not considered in any of thisq Tom Molene: No it is not because of the wax on iL I don't know how they make iL The best you could hope for, a shrink wrap type of materlai would tend to..fif the wax were remove&.. Councilman Senn: The reason I asked, I not too long ago spent a week up at Wolf Ridge and they recycled waxed paper and I don't know whm__ they did with it. I should have asked but th~'s what raised the question of mine because we have a lot of ~ tim goes into the garbage~ Tom Molene: It could simply be a case of, maybe they had found a pilot market for a tfllot project There are pilot projects out there for things such as milk cartons or juice drink boxes. But it's very limited. It's still in the pilot phase. Mayor Clxmiel: Good, thank you. Anyone else wishing to s_ddress tht~q This is a public heating. Councilman Wing: I move we dose the public hearing. Mayor Chmiel: It's been moved and seconded. Any discussion? Councilman Mason: Do you know how the Recycling Committee feels about changing mixed Imper to mixed mail? Was that addressed at all7 Councilwoman Dockendoff: No. I'm sorry. Mayor Cl~mtel: Seeing it's not much of a problem, we'H call the question. Councilwoman Dockendoff: Well I have a comment. Sust to cover myself. I'm usually very, let's recycle everything that we can but I think you make a good point that fram a conunu~cation standpoint~ it's e.,ssi~ to say everything you get in the mail is recyclable as opposed to all paper but this _amd this and this and this. So I guess it does make sense to change.fl~ to mixed mail. Councilman Wing: Was there a second to close the public hearing? Coundlwoman Dockendorf: We voted on it. Coundlman Wing: Did we vote? 41 Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 Mayor Chmiel: No, not yet. Councilman Mason: I was out of line. I was out of line, I'm sorry. Councilman Wing moved, Councilman Mason seconded to ciose the public hearing. Ali voted in favor and the motion carried. The public hearing was closed. Councilman Mason: Can I move my discussion previous to right now then? Mayor Chmieh No. We already discussed it. Councilman Senn: But I'll make the motion that we approve this and that we approve it and also ask the Recycling Committee what we could posstbly do in relationship to education or something we could get in the newsletter and some other things to really educate people what. Mayor Chmieh I think the intent is that they are planning to go through that process. But I think just to keep it as a friendly reminder might be a good idea. Councilman Wing: Now is this a motion to approve this with the mixed mail? Councilman Senn: With the mixed mall and...education so people would know what It is. Councilman Wing: I'll second that. Resolution ~)3-87: Councilman Senn moved, Councilman Wing seconded to approve a resolution adding corrugated cardboard, magazines and mixed mail as targeted recyelable~ which are required to be collected curb~ide by haulers licensed in Chanhas~n and to educate the public regarding these new items. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. RECONSIDER CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL FOR COLONIAL GROVE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION RECREATIONAL BEACHLOT. Public Present: Name Address Ron & Leanne Harvieux Henry Sosin Susan Conrad 6605 Horseshoe Curve 7400 Chanhassen Road 6625 Horseshoe Curve Kate Aanenson: At your August 23rd meeting you did request that this item be reheard. We included in the packet for you the original Information that we provided to make your dectslon which included the affidavits from the Colonial Grove Homeowners Association. In addition we provided... 42 Chanhassen City Council Meeting - Septem~ 13, 1993 affidavits that lhe Lotus Lake residents had provided..~s you recall you recommende~ th~_.. We do not have additional information. We're relying basi~y on the information...and lhey are here to provide additional information...but we would ltke to note for the record that we did notify all members of Colonial Grove as well as all the lake residents. That's all the information we have. Mayor Ouniel: Okay, thank you. I believe that some discussion was brought up at the last meeting and Richard, maybe you'd like to clarlf~ that That you'd like to see some additional information as well as Colleen and, regarding the proposal that was broug~ before us 2 weeks ago. Them were some concerns. I want to know if those had been addressed. Councilman W'mg: I would agree with Kate. I think there's ~¢ mom information that pertmps will be presente~ tonight. I'm not privy to that. Kate Aanenson: Information other flmn..anembers of the Lake Association. The Lotus lake Association have additional infommflon that they... Councilman Wing: Just as this comes back to us, I just want to verify lhat Roger has omphasized timg and _time again; and I don't want to reinvent ~ wheel again tonight. 7'ne only issue we're looking at, I'm not even going to ask you tonight. I know what the answer is...the rmmber of boats and the witnesses here tonight and that have been here are here to help us decide on the .number of boats. The Planning Commission reviewed this twice. They determined the number of boals and passed on a represenU~ve number. Cond_ttional use permits, development comra/~s, irrelevant. With this ordinance, took all that inW account back in 1981 and we went through public heatings on this for how many months to try to determine what we should do .... quote from page 11 of the Mtmm~ from August 9th where the a~rney for Colonial Grove says, what was asked for is ~_h~ we simply clarify, I mean this is their own attorney ~__~t~g what they wanted the City Cmmdl to do. What was asked for is that we simply clarify for the city the number of boats that were moored at the dock in 1981 and that that number would be the appropriate number that would be appwved for today's usage. So they understood the simatio~ We undemood ~ situation and how we got sidetrac~d, I'll never know. So I guess all I ask tonight is that we try and look at the number of boats that were there and look at the burden of proof again being on Colonial Grove. The only other comment I'll make is that on the presentations from Colonial Grove, and I've said that I would not involve the individual by name but one of the affidavits they presented will not hold up in Court and would be withdrawn ff that became necessary. He thought he was signing a petition, not an affidavit, It was done so to be a good neighbor and he has no qnslms about ~ that if R becomes necessary but in the ~ of neighboflmod unity, he has chosen not to be nam~ or he asked me not to name him, although Kate I believe you spoke with one of the parties at some point. So I just want to make that clear. One of the affidavits is no longer valid. Mayor Cbmiel: Okay. Thank you Richard. Colleen7 Councilwoman Dockendoff: I'll be real blunt here. I made a mistake when we looked at this issue before~ I allowed other issues to become muddled with the very clear, succinct mt~_ on that we had decide that night. And that was completely my fanlL The second issue fl~e city-survey, which was Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 brought into question. And it's brought into question everytime we look at these beachlot issues but we have relied on that 1981 city survey in ail other cases. And unless there's proof brought in, indisputable saying it is wrong, we have taken that at face vaiue. The third issue is the affidavits and as I said that night, you like to believe everyone's signed, sworn affidavit but they're obviously in conflict and my concern is that one has been called into question and in looking at them and reviewing them, we've got 10 individuai affidavits saying one thing against what I consider now 4 pre-printed affidavits saying the same thing. So I guess the bottom line is, I made a mistake and I'm ready to rectify it tonight. Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Michael. Councilman Mason: Well, I was the one that moved to reconsider which I understand from the City Attorney is my right because I was not at the meeting prior to. There were just too many issues that I was uncomfortable with that I wanted to have come out in the open and clearly by the fact that my motion to reconsider was seconded, and I believe then the vote was 4 to 1 in favor, there were enough concerns that I felt it was important to bring it back up again. So take it from there I guess. Mayor Chmtel: Okay. Marl Councilman Senn: I'd like to hear the new information. Councilman W'mg: Before we get into the new. Mayor Chmiel: Go ahead Richard. Councilman Wing: Could I just make up points. I looked at a dock today that was 110 feet long out at Minnewashta Heights and the maximum number of boats they could get aiong that dock were 7, and that was exceeding, that was going beyond the dock length. So that's a 110 foot dock. There were 7 boats strung out there. That's a 110 foot dock. Back in 1981 that was a 35 foot dock and I don't see how you could physically get, the first thing that brought in my mind here, how you get 8 or 9 boats on a 35 foot dock. Secondly, that was brought to our attention last time by numerous people that did the lake count and justified the city's lake count. That the 3 boats that were there were there illegally. They were there against the conditional use permit because they hadn't been spelled out. And that a complaint was issued that those boats be removed. So for Coloniai Grove to come in and tell me there were 8 or 9 boats there, when there was a complaint that year against the 3 that were there illegaily, that certainly doesn't make sense. The affidavits that came in clearly state there were only 3 boats or less. Not to the best of our knowledge and I think that was an offsetting. So I think these things have come to light. They may have at some point had been ailowed 100 foot dock but they've never chosen to use that and you couldn't dock 8 or 9 boats on a 35 foot dock. So I think that all these things have unanimously Justified my decision. Frankly the 3 boats ts a very generous compromise in this case considering that, I think Ladd Conrad brought up at Planning. If you really want to look into this, there weren't any boats pennitted and I think the testimony last time at the visitors presentation stated that there were no boats allowed and that ts a very clear cut issue that I think we could justify. So I think we were very fair in our assessment of ailowing them 3 boats. City Council Meeting - Septem~ 13, 1993 Mayor Chmiel: Regarding any additional testimony regarding thi~, la there anyone else that is g~ng to address this? ff you'd come forward and please/ndtc, ate your name and your address. Henry Sosin: My name is Henry Sogtn_ I live at 7400 ~sn __harm Road. I don't believe that any of you were involved in city government at the time that we're talking about in '81. Ar~_ I can well unde~a~l why you may say, how can a guy who's uninvolved remember these kinds of specific things, l'm one of the signers of one of the affidavits. I think the key word is uninvolved...l was Vice President of our Lake Homeowners Association at the time. We were extremely involved. Mr. Ashworth can probably attest to thst because we were here practi~y every meeting. We were holding meelJngs every month and through the summertime twice a month because we were lryin,g~ to prepare information to pwvide at public meetings such as tht~ because that's the time when the beachlot ordinance, water surface usage act, those things were being written that year. I have here just some copies of some of the Minutes of our meetings. There's absolutely nothing important in any of these except it does tell you that we were meeting ffequmfly snd if you look at the ageodas, even though there's no specifics, those were the lx~ics of discussion- And the reason that I can say categorically that I myself remember specifi~y that there were tuffy 3 boats at Colonial Grove Homeowners dock was because we felt they were there in violation. They were illegally docked overnight at a time when overnight mooring was specifically outlawed, and still is acco~tn~ to the ordinanc4~. So for myseff I can say explicitedly that there were 3, and only 3 boats there all summer long. And so we discussed this at our meetings and we actually comacled Colonial Grove Homeowners Association to tell them of their tnfractt~ ~ they of course didn't do anything about it. I'd like to make one other point As I said, I don't think any of you people were on the Council at that time but there was a Mayor and there were 4 other people sitting there. There was a Planning Commission. There was a Lake Sludy Commission and all these people were good people. Well intentioned and gave their time and efforts to th~ city, like yotl're doiBg right ~lOW. I find it, personally I find it very disconceRing to think that ali that energy, effort, discussion, and decision making could be set aside so simply. And I wish that you do reconsider this. Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. Is them anyone else wishing to address _thin7 Ron Harvieux: My name is Ron Harvieux. I Hve at 6605 Horseslx~ Curve and am a member of the Lake Homeowners Association. I'd like to address the issue of an affl~t that my wife, Leam~ signed. She speaks for me on just about everything else and I guess I'm speaking for hex tonight at her request. She was one of the people from the Homeowners Association that signed an affidavit that was given to Council before the last meeting suggesting that there were 3 or fewer boats at Colonial Cvluve. There wa~ a gelltlemall fi'om Cololliai CrlDv¢ who got up lilat ev_ening ~ 811ggested that it was ~ s~rallge that people who were, again ~minvolved would be able to remember baf, k 12 years ago about the number of boats on the lake. And I want to again reiterate that it was not an uninvolved party. My wife was on the lake. She was on the lake with friends of her'~ Members of the boarcL They were looking...they were not out there recreating. They were trying to undenmmd lake usage and in fact they were trying as part of the process of the adoptto~..~ot ordinance. So a lot of hard work undertaken by those people and it wasn't memory. It was not happe~tance that they... Punt~r, I believe a lake ~_~d_y or usage survey that had been referred to several times which indicated that there were 3 boats at that location that shared with the Colonial Grove Homeowners 45 Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 Association in 1981 or '82, whenever the survey was published, and it just seems to me very strange that that would have been the time I would think that if that survey was done improperly or if there were some problems with it, it seems that would have been the time for someone to react to it. Not 12 years later so I'm not sure who's memory is good. Thank you. Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. Is there anyone else? ff seeing none. I gave this to Don to read here and I almost forgot to mention it. I had recetved a letter from Cltff Whitehill and I think Council has also received these letters as well. And reiterating some of the things basically that were said and the position of the association confronting the 1981 part of discussion that we had last week. And I'm sure that everyone has had an oppommity to look at this. And I guess I too in looking at this and seeing some of the information that had pertained to it, I voted in the positive for this. In fact I was just looking at the non-conformance use permit which is the beachlot for Colonial Grove and in there it had indicated the date of issue was the 15th of June of 1981. By coincidence Lotus Lake Association Minutes of June 16th, 1981 and the thing that I had looked at of course was the potential of what they had within this permit as well for 100 dock. One of my determining factors in looking at that was, and trying to determine numbers of boats with 100 foot dock, you could almost put the 8 boats on that dock with 100 feet. And in listening to two different stales, I looked at that position and took that position at the time. In looking at some of these other things too now, which Henry has brought forward and also Ron Harvieux, makes one really sit back and wonder. You don't dispute anyone's position that they had taken. In this particular case I think that we're going to ensue some discussions probably fight now. And I would entertain discussions from Council in lieu of what has been brought before us with the information per se as opposed to the position that we had taken. And I'd probably like to start fight on this end. Richard. Councilman Wing: Well I've satd for 13, this is the 14th one and I have no more to say other than I will just simply move on the reconsideration and the recommendation will be as of the last meeting with the change to 3 boats. Whatever was decided on picnic tables and color of the dock and whatever the ease was. Ftrst of all I guess, specifically a 35 foot dock. That's what they've had all along so the 100 foot dock I think is Irrelevant here. What we'd decide last time? Kate Aanenson: They say that they've always had a 100 foot dock...but that's what they say. Councilman Wing: Were you out there? Well the surveys state 35 so I won't argue the dock. Kate Aanenson: ...to the 1981 survey. Whether it was 100 feet in 1981, that's really what the issue is. The other issue...because we're looking at the non-conforming permit, the only thing that we'd be looking at this permit because they do have that permit, was we were looking at just the number of boats at the dock. We decided that we wouldn't. Councilman Wing: Yeah, that's correct. I remember that. Mayor Cluntel: Yeah and I think the only point Dick is bringing out is the fact that for the recreational beachlot inventory that was done in 1981, 1986 and 1991, it showed 35 feet on that. 46 City Council M~tiag - S~ealb~ 13, 1993 Councilman Wing: I won't question that. I'll simply make the recommendation that whatever was approv~ last time be altered to include 3 boats snd~ pass it as stw~ Councilwoman Dockendorf: I stated my reasons for reconsideration and I'll second Dick's motion. Roger Knutson: Mayor? Mayor Chmiel: Yes Roger. Roger Knutson: You can't amend the motion. Maybe I can suggest rafl~ than move into make that change tonight. ~ you move to direct me to lxepare Findings of Fact with your decision documenting your decision making process for the record. That'd be the best. Councilman Wing: Absolutely. What'd he say? Mayor Chmiel: Findings of Fact to basically make. Roger Knutsom ff we get c. halle~ged, the Courts would like to see Findings of Fact explaining in some detail your reasons. Mayor Chmiel: With that would the motion and the second be acceptable7 Councilman Wing: Well yeah. Will the bfmutes pick that up clear? I guess I would move on Roger's wording. Roger Knutson: Yeah the motion is to direct the City Attorney to prepare Findin~ of Fact consistent with 3 boats...prcwious discussion- Councilman Wing: Okay. Mayor Chmiel: Discussion yet. Michael. Coundlman Mason: Yeah I'm glad I got to hear the comments R the Lake Area ~_~d_y. Knowing, I think most people in this city share the concern of what's going on in the lakes and with the committees, the surface water management program and what not, the commit/e~ that I've been on, people don't take those responsibilities lightly and I certainly am willing to accept the word of members of that commt~e that say there were 3 boats there. I have no problem with all of that. I would like to make one comment for the record on Mr. Whitehill's letter. His last paragmi~ comments as to why no one will be here from Colonial Grove. He then goes on to say that rite meeting of August 9, 1993 matter must be considered final and dosed. Otherwise at any meeting of the Council anyone can continuously request that dosed matters be reopened notwithstanding the final action by the Council. Such a corot_ hued distraction from fairness and due process will not serve Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 either the City of Chanhassen or any of it's citizens. Obviously it is my right as a Councilmember withtn 2 weeks to call for a motton to reconsider a vote so I just hope Mr. Whttehill doesn't think that this isn't due process because I believe in fact what I did was due process. Roger Knutson: A motion to reconsider und_er your rules can only be made at the next meeting. If you hadn't done it at your last meeting, you couldn't do it tonight. Councilman Mason: Right. Well I just wanted the record to know I think in fact we're being very fair. But at any rate, I certainly go along with 3 boats. Mayor Chmtel: Mark. Councilman Senn: Well, I guess I'm not as comfortable as everybody else with it. I don't know. There's been extensive documentation on this and you can read through all this stuff until you're blue in the face. Everytime I tum around there's a new document. Tonight's no different than that. I mean I go through these Minutes now and I see the Planning Commission was considering an application by them for conditional use for 40 boats accor~g to these Minutes, at Lotus Lake Estates. I mean why haven't we been given flint? Isn't that a part of the city record of the Planning Commission was considering 40 boats? Henry Sostn: That's a different... Councilman Senn: I'm not saying what the Association is. I'm just reading what these Minutes say in front of me. So what I'm saying is, if that consideration was there, I mean again there's more information that's not in front of us on this issue and it just seems like every time we turn around to discuss it, there's more and more information and none of it's, that's not all in front of us. Councilwoman Dockendorf: But how does that relate? I'm missing your point. Councilman Senn: Well I think that's a fairly key point. If there was actually an application by Lotus Lake Homeowners, or by Lotus Lake Estates, for a conditional use permit in August of 1981 for 40 boats, I think that's kind of a key issue as it would relate. I mean this is what the Association is saying they did. Now it's a key issue in the sense that if they did that and made application, to me that's very different from what I've been hearing in all of these heatings, which is that's not what happened. They didn't make any application and there was no discussion of boats. Roger Knutson: That was a different association~ Mayor Chmiel: I think that's one of the points that was just brought up recently. Councilman Senn: Lotus Lake Estates Homeowners Association it says here. Ron Harvieux: Lotus Lake Estates, we're talking about Colonial Grove. 48 City Council Meefln~ - Septemi~n- 13, 1993 Mayor Chmiel: This is Colonial Grove. Councilman Senn: I undemand that but what I'm saying is, is the Lotus Lake Homeowners Association made that application. Ron Harvieux: No. No. Lotus Lake Es~__ ~ is different th~ Lotus Lake Homeowners Assodation. Henry Sosin: May I clarify that please? Mayor Cbmlel: Yes. Would you like to come up so we can pick that up please. Henry Sosin: I told you that there was llothin~ fagO. lal in there that would be of great importallge to you. What you're reading is Lotus Lake is not, the Lotus Lake Homeowners Associstion...Mtmm~, Board meeting Minutes. Those are things that we were discussing ~t that time. Thc appHca~on came from Lotus Lake Estates which is a Oi~nt beac~ot organization than Colonial Cyrove. R has, bears boats. That was another association on the lake with an outioC Councilman Senn: Lotus Lake Estates? Henry Sosin: Lotus Lake Esm~. Which is just north of Colonial Grove. Councilman Senn: And where is their beachlot at? Henry Sosin: Their beachlot is the whole eastern shore of that bay that's rig~ over your leR hand shoulder. That's Lotus Lake that you're looking aL Kate Aanenson: They have 3 docks. Henry Sosin: Yeah, they now have 3 docks. They have canoes and I think they have 9 boats. Kate Aanenson: They had a conditional use for 3 docks. Henry Sosin: But that was through a conditional use permit Don Ashworth: It's was severely reduced. The initial application was for ~ but tike you noted, it was reduced to 3 and I think that they have to have well over 1~500 feet of f~ontage on Lotus Lake. It's a significant frontage. Kate Aencnson: R meets ali the criteria for a recreational beachioC The 3O,OOO square feet. The 200 feet of frontage so they're legitimate. Henry Sosilc I think Colonial Grove has a very tiny beac~oL 49 Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 Councilman Senn: What was the, at the last hearing somebody stood up and referenced an aeflai photo or something that documented the 100 foot dock. Councilman Wing: What they said was it wasn't discernable. Councilman Senn: On the aeflal photo7 Councilman Wing: That's right. On Minnewashta the documents, we could go back on Mlnnewashta and tell you what kind of motor you had on your boat. They didn't turn out clear enough on Lotus Lake. We're not questioning the length of the dock. We're conceding the length of the dock. It's irrelevant. We're only talking about the number of boats so I want to, why are we getting side tracked on a thousand other issues7 You haven't once addressed the number of boats. That's ail we're doing tonight and Roger. Councilman Senn: Dick because I look back at ail the documentation and I see no documentation in the city files that says they were ever given a permit for any amount of boats there. Okay, nor was the issue ever discussed to give them a permit for any amount of boats there. Councilman Wing: In 1981 it didn't matter. Councilman Senn: The only thing I could find was a pre-agreement to ail of that which said they can't moor boats. Or no. It didn't say moor boats. It says mooring buoys you couldn't put out. What I'm saying is there's absolutely no documentation. Here you have a development agreement that gets into, in fact a conditional use permit that even precedes the ordinance. They've got a terrible amount of detail on everything. Every little detail except, geez it left this big gaping hole and that big gaping hole was the number of boats. It was silent on it. So what does that mean7 You know you look at this as being very cut and dry. I don't look at it as being very cut and dry and there's some real issues here and quite frankly I've seen so much information on both sides and this to counter this and this to counter that. At this point I don't think it's real clear one way or the other. Councilman Wing: Is that statement true Roger? I mean I'm kind of looking here saying, it is kind of black and white to me. This is the 14th one we've done. Is there something different about this group? They've got some covenant that gives them right over this ordinance. When this ordinance was passed, it didn't matter what they had said or done. Councilman Senn: Okay, one other question. Isn't this the only one, at least it's the only one since I've been here that I've seen that (a), had a pre-existing development agreement prior to the ordinarr~ and a conditional use permit in place prior to the ordinance. I haven't seen any others like that Roger Knutson: I can't recail any which is not to say there isn't any. I don't recall them. Councilman Senn: Well I mean I asked that question last time and everybody. 50 Chanhassen City Coundl Meeting - Septem~ 13, 1993 Roger Knutson: I don't know if this is relevant. Just vaguely I sort of remember that there's a development contract involved in a recreational beac~ot on one other one. I'm real vague. I can't tell you that that's the case. I'm sure the planning staff would know better. Kate Annenson: Them was a couple of th~n...they don't have a conditional use...They had a non- conforming permit. They were asked, and this is where the staff got asked to come back becamse the Minutes that we fooru~ from the Planning Commission said, ff you do want lo have boa~, if you do want to have canoe racks, you must come back and ask for a conditional use. They did come back and ask for a conditional use for the canoe racks. Well, we followed ~he same logic and said, well ff you want boats, which it said in the Minutes of the Plmmin8 Commission, that you should come back and ask for a permit. Since they had never done that, we felt that they need to go through the same Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Anything else? Okay. Any other discussion? Councilman Mason: I just want to reiterate what I said. I think my record on all these ~ has been fairly consistent with what the lake area group has said was there in '81 and in that regard I do think this is a pretty black and white issue. And with flint I'll call the question. Mayor Chmiel: Question's been called for 3 boats m opposed to 8. Coundlman Wing moved, Councilwoman Doekendorf seconded direct the City Attorney to prepare Findings of Facts consistent with the City Council's decision to allow 3 boats to be docked overnight at the Colonial Grove Homeowners Ass0cin~n R~'eafional Beadflot. All vo~! in I~vor, except Councilman Senn who opposed, and the motion carried with a vote of 4 to 1. Mayor Chmiel: One no and I fltink you've indical~ your concerns with this. PRELIMINARY PLAT TO SUBDIVIDE 6.1 ACRES INTO 13 SINGLE FAMILY LOTS LOCATED SOU'I~ OF PLEASANT VIEW ROADt WEST OF TROENDLE CIRCLI~.~ EAST OF PEACEFUL LAND AND NORTH OF LAKR LUCY ROADt TOWER HI~GHTS. Public Premmt: Name Address Larry Moloney Jeff Schoenwetter Dennis Troy Jim Stasson 150 FLfth Street Tower, Suite 3500, Mpls JMS Development, 4806 Park Glen Road, Mpls Attorney for/MS Develolmumt 6400 Peaceful Lar~ Sharmin Al-Jaff: This application appeared before the Planning Commission on July 21, 1993 and 51 Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 was tabled. It was revisited again on August 18, 1993. There were some issues that concerned the Planning Commission. All those issues have been addressed since then. Those issues include grading. The original plans showed the site being mass graded. This is no longer the case. The applicant has paid attention to all areas that contain trees and left those sites, especially Lots 12 and 13, to be custom graded as to the time when they come in with a building permit Originally we didn't have an adequate tree survey or reforestation plan. Again, this is no longer the case. the applicant has submitted a tree survey with a reforestation plan. Basically they average 3 trees per parcel...the trees that will be preserved. The applicant is also using retaining walls where we have outlined in red along Troendle, I mean Tower Heights Drive. This retaining wail will be located within the publtc right-of- way which is something that we typically don't permit. However, in thts case tt will save a larger number of trees. Therefore we will be working with the applicant to locate the retaining walls within the public right-of-way. Average lot size is 21,780 square feet which exceeds the minimum lot area of the city's zoning ordinance. This application has been...delayed over the Nez Perce tssue needs to be reviewed and revisited. We think it is appropriate to continue on with the preliminary plat approval. However, we don't wish to leave...in a posttion of being unable to make a judgment If the City Counctl determines that a different alignment or configuration for the mad is reasonable. City staff worked with the City Attorney's office and developed condition 11 which basically stated preliminary plat approval is contingent upon the extension of Nez Perce Drive, consistent with the preliminary plat street layout and the favorable resolution of litigation concerning the street extension. If this alignment doesn't go through, this plat becomes void and the applicant would then have to start wtth a preliminary plat right from the beginning and appear before the Planning Commission and then come before you again. So with that we are recommending approval of this appltcatior~ Thank you. Mayor Chmtel: Thank you Sharmin. I liked that clarification of item number 11. Is JMS here this evelaing? Is there anything that you'd like to say at this particular time regarding the conditions as contained within the proposal. Jeff Schoenwetter: Good evening. It's 10:20. I'll be very brief. Maybe 30 seconds will do. I think we've worked out everything with staff and as Sharmin mentioned, we spent a great deal of nme, as I'm sure you're aware with the Nez Perce extension issue. It's a great plat. It's had more Input than most any plat I've ever been associated with and we're here tonight to ask for your approval. Thank you. Dennis Troy: Good evening, Mayor. Councilmembers. My name is Dennis Troy. I'm the attorney for JMS Development and likewise I will keep my comments brief. One thing that Jeff didn't mention is that he has closed on purchasing the property. JMS is the fee owner. 'They had a closing with Mr. Owens recently. So that part of the transaction has been completed. Over the last several months there's been a lot of debate about this plat and sometimes issues, peripheral issues have tend to muddy the water. I would hope that they do not muddy the water tontght. The Issue tonight ts not whether the condemnation is wise. The issue tonight ts not the...lawsuit. The issue tonight Is not...plats of some other landowner if they owned it mtght propose to the ctty. The ctty, the issue really tonight ts simply should the Ctty Counoll approve the preliminary plat with conditions that dtd receive significant public input and also the favorable recommendation of the Planning Commission. We would like approval tonight, ff there are any questions, we'd be glad to answer them. Thank you. 52 Chanhassen City Cotmcil Meeting - September 13, 1993 Mayor Chmiel: Good, thank you. Docs Coundl have any questions? 10 and 117 Tl~y se~m to addre~ th~ same issue. Mayor Chmiel: Would you like to restate your question? Cotmcilman Mason: No, it's pretty clear. Councilwoman Dockendoff: No. Cotmcilman Senn: I had thc same question- Mayor Chmiel: I didn't get an opportunity to hear wh~ you said. Roger Knutsorc I think there's probably substantial duplication there. Councilwoman Dockcadorf: Thank you. I thought I was mi _~dng something. Councilman Scan: Well is the inlrattion of 11 to ~imply...the legality versus 10 which covers the alignment? Is that7 Roger Knutson: 11 also covers the ali~q~rncnt. Councilman Senn: Well I undemand that but I mean it's adding the litigation as an issue. Roger Knutson: It talks about Peaceful Lane... Mayor _Chmiel: Yeah there are. Councilwoman Dockendoff: Can we get rid of 11 and still cover it7 Roger Knutson: No. Councilwoman Dockendorf: No. Keep 11 in. Alright, that's fine. If we're redundant I don't care. I was just curious. Mayor Cl~mlel: Before we go much further, and any other questions, there's someone else that would like to address us. Would you like to come forward please and sta~e your name and who you're rep~nting as well. Larry Moloncy: My name is Larry Moloney. I'm an attorney. And worst yet, I'm the attorney that has brought the lawsuit under the Environmental Right~ Act and fileA the pelttion for an EAW. I recognize also it's late and that there's been a lot of discussions on the issues so I'll try to bo brief but Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 I should also add. First of all I guess I'd like to first say that I was unaware of this condition until you mentioned it a minute ago. And I'd like to say that I'm actually pleased that you've done that. I do think it's in your interest and it's one of the things I was going to suggest to you to maintain some flexibility as this process goes on. I know lawsuits aren't pleasant for anyone and I do think it's advisable that you maintain some conditions on approval as you grant it tonight. I do also want to say though, I don't have that condition in front of me but it sounds to me that the condition was based on a characterization of the lawsuit that I drafted that is somewhat inaccurate. Because the lawsuit is not only the extension of Nez Perce Drive. It's on also the $1VlS proposal. It refers to the feasibility study that dealt with not only the extension of the Pleasant View but the path and realignment of Peaceful Lane. So if it is not characterized in that fashion, my suggestion to you and it's a friendly suggestion, is that you should make sure you condition covers the lawsuit and all of it's issues lest you somehow limit the flexibility that you have and the protection that you have by putting thi~ condition in. That's just a preliminary suggestion and maybe it's already covered. I haven't seen the language exactly. Mr. Knutson can probably review that for you. Having said that, let me make another couple few points. I'm a relative newcomer. I know this controversy has been going on a long time here. I think it was August 23rd when you dealt with the EAW petition issue and I heard all the frustration and the anger from the City Council and I was also at the Planning Commission meeting on August 18th until 1:00 in the morning and I beard people from the neighborhood and the area in question spesldng with a lot of emotion and I beard the Planning Commission respond to that. And that's one of the points I wanted to make tonight. Is that from what I think is a fairly objective perspective, I think the decision making basing process on this issue has been infected somewhat with emotion. In my opinion, for example on the evening of the 23rd when you made your decision on the EAW, I think you made a mistake. And I think you made it on the basis of emotion. And I also think it's partially true that one of the reasons for that is that this issue has been personalized into a Mr. Frank Beddor versus City of Chanhassen type of issue and I don't believe ltmt's really the issue at all. I think there's legal issues here. I think there's safety issues here and I think there's environmental issues here. And I think that's your duty is to consider those issues and not to get caught up in some kind of emotional battle between yourselves and Mr. Beddor. Second point. With respect to the lawsuit. I repeat, I'm the guy that drafted it and I want you to recognize, because there's been a lot of discussion about what's at issue and what isn't at issue and how this plat has nothing to do with the extension of Nez Perce Drive and the lawsuit. It's simply not so. I ~ the complaint and I repeat to you, this plat is at issue. Most of the environmental damage we're ta~iking about relates to this plat. So please don't make your decision on some kind of understanding that there's a line between the Nez Perce issue and the plat that you're .considering tonight. It's not so. Third point. Another thing that struck me. I was here until 1:00 in the morning, as I said, when the Planning Commission was listening to the proposal on the JMS plat and the thing that struck me in listening to these Chanhassen residents, and then your own Planning Commission, is that there was vimml unanimity on one point, including from the Planning Commission, who I know recommended approval of this project. This plaL And that was, that there is a significant, serious, real safety issue that this city hasn't addressed. That's why the Planning Commission, at 1:00 in the morning, all of them, suggested, recommended that a traffic survey be done so you figure out what you're actually doing here in setting up an approval of this project and the Nez Perce extension that we believe depends on traffic on the road is not intended to handle that level of traffic. Indeed, ff you look at the Minutes of the Plavning Commission meeting, the Planning Commission was quite clear. They don't think the road can handle 54 Chnnlmssen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 the traffic that's on it fight now and you're proposing to send more traffic up ~ without any idea of how much or what the im?acts are going to be. In spite of the fact that there are stafl~cs already that show you that there are safety issues up there. We've looked at the statistics. The Mayor has looked at the statistics. You're talking about real issues here and alflxmgh I remember one of you, and I forget which Councilperson, made the statement on the EAW. Why do it. We're not goin..v to learn anything new. That's just flat wrong. Because for all the years you've been discussing it, you've never done the one study thst would answer the question that these people are rat_ ,in~. Next point. Under the Minnesota Environmemal Rights Act, basically what's at issue is whether there's a destruction of pro~l resources where there's a ~asible alternative. We submitted to you recently, through Mr. Fortier, two letters dated September 7th. One addresses the enviwnmental impa~ to trees of the JIVIS proposal versus another feasible alternative that we prese~ __ed. And we've shown the environmental impacts on trees are somet_hin~ between 2 and 3 time~ greater for the proposal that's before you tonight. In terms of the feasi~ of the alternative, I was here at one of the two meetings I attended where it was contended that the alternative wasn't feasible because the grade was too great. So we went out and hired an engineering firm and we have a letter from the ~n .eexing firm. Mr. Charles Melchert, project engineer and it's been sent to I think the City Engineer's office. I'll leave a copy of it with Mr. Knu~n. And it shows you there's absolutely no reason why the ~e can't be done within the ~ of this city. So you have desUuction of ~__,_~'al resources where there's a feasible alternative. And that's basi~y what we're going to be arguin~ in Court. Next potnL On the EAW petition. I want to remind you of something. I again was here the night that you decided not to do the petition and what the record is going to reflect is that your planning staff reamune~ an EAW be done. Every member of the Planning Commt~on recommended an EAW be done that encompasse2 a traffic survey. Mr. Kranss recommended initially that an EAW be done. The City Manager recommended an EAW. The City Attorney recomme~ an F_,AW and you probably were going to do it until you got one document ~nd that was a doannent that said it was going to cost $41,000.00. And I was here that night and I know that's why you didn't do it. I can also tnll you that you should have taken the suggestion of the Mayor because he told you to go out and get some other bids because I know we've gotten bids on traffic surveys which was a good portion of...but in any event you decided not to and that's what you're going to be co~ in Court Bottom line_ is, when you look at the whole picture, for whatever reason. It's the motion. I mean you've dug in your heels and you think it's a done deal. You're not willin~ to op~ your mind~_. You're taking the most costly alternative possible. You're following a course that's going to mean condemnmton, when you had options where you didn't have to cond_e~nn_. You're taking a course that's going to mean litigation when you had options that wouldn't have meam litigation. And unless you cover yourseff with good conditions tonight that give the developer to my left, vested fights which means ff we prevail in Court, you'll have to pay him as well. My suggestion to you is ~ it's in yom' tntere~ Don't do it ~ of Mr. Beddor. Don't do it because of me. Do it because it's the fight thing to do for your constituents. Keep your options open. Keep your minds open. DO a traffic survey, which you should have done already. Try to get an answer on what the best course is on this particular project And this particular area and I think you'll find, when the facts are all in, that the idea of extending Peaceful Lane in the manner that you're considering tonight, extending Nez Perce and ~, Pleasant View rather, is a poor idea. If we're fight and if you go forward as you are planning, and you dump more traffic on that street, that your own Planning Commi~ion has told you is unsafe even for the level of traffic that you have, you're going to be cre~?inl safety hazards for your Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 own constituents and probably setting up a situation where you're going to be forcing yourseff to do more expensive improvements on that road, which are going to cost the taxpayers still more money. So in view of all that, my suggestion to you, beca~ it's in your interest and in the interest of your constituents, is not to approve this project Defer from the path that you're on, even though I know it would be a hard thtng to do because of the emotion involved, because of the history involved, and because you think it's a done deal. Mayor Cluntel: Thank you. Roger Knutson: Can I make one comment? Mayor Chmiel: Yes Roger. Roger Knutson: I'll reserve my speeches until we get to Court. Councilman Mason: Thank you very much. Mr. Knutson, thank you very much. Dennis Troy: 30 seconds? We are here tonight on an application for a subdivision of 13 lots. We're not going to solve some of the traffic concems that people have about Pleasant View, which are frankly unrelated to this development. There may be some existing traffic concerns. I sat in those meetings too. I didn't hear Plmming Commission say that Pleasant View was unsafe for this development or from the proposed extension. There are Just simply some issues to deal with Pleasant View that are much larger in scale and have really nothing to do with this 13 lot subdivision. We heard a lot about the Environmental Rights Act. That's not the issue. We heard about other issues of traffic and EAW's. That's not the issue. We have an application. A landowner in this city has an application before you for 13 lots and that's the issue. We understand that it is tied to and conditioned upon some other things that relate to this litigation. To that extent there is a connection. But that connection's been dealt with...Othetwise I've heard no adverse comments with respect to the plat itself. Thank you. Councilman Wing: Could we address the plat first? Mayor Chmiel: We'll get one more comment Jim Stasson: My name is Jim Stasson. I live at 6400 Peaceful Lane. I've been to most of these meetings. Well, probably all of them since we heard about this. I'm still concemed about the traffic being connected and going through. We would really like to look at some maybe cul-de-sacktng off some of these areas and if possible, nmning the cul-de-sac into Troendle Addition and Tower Heights Addition. And breaking the connection between that and Lake Lucy Road...and not make it a thru street. Also anything you can do that would move the road, or when Peaceful Lane gets done, away from our property as far as possible, it would be greatly appreciated. We bought a lot on a dead end road 7 years ago and never imagined having a thru street going past our house. We're so close to the road our... 56 Chanlm~sen City Council Meeting - Septanber 13, 1993 Mayor Chmiel: Thanks Jim. Okay, Richard. Councilman Wing: Well there's a couple things. Oh, leave that on. Leave that on. There's a couple things I want to point. First of all, one of the major discussions we had with all of the nei~ in the area, and one thing t_hat_ we tentatively agreed on. I think Mazk was hitting real hard on traffic resUictions last time. Was that anyflflng going through _this mad we were going to make square comers and we were going to do square comers which brings us up to ~ Lar~ ...approve this or go along with it is if Nez Perce, if it is connected, comes in at a 90 degree angle and ttum goes onto Peaceful Lane to slow traffic and discourage traffic. The way it's drawn ri/hi now, you've just got a thru street onto Peaceful Lane. That's not acceptable, number one. Number two, I think Mr. Stasson commented on the naming, ~ Lane exists. And to me Tower Heights is nothing but an extension of ~aceful La_ne. I don't' think there should be a name change here. That Peaceful Lane Department's not going to accept that. That doean't make sense and it's not reasonable. So with those two changes I guess I kind of agree with their atWmey. It's their ~. It's their developmenL We either approve it or disapprove it with the item number 11. I think that's all. Mayor Cbmiel: Okay. Thank you. Colleen. Councilwoman Dockendoff: No commellL Mayor Chmiel: Okay, Michael. Mayor Chmiel: Okay, Mari~ Coundiman Senn: I have a question for Roger. It seems to me a little bit here looking at 10 and 11 that we're, how would I say, really tying the hands of the applicant in the sense that it is very specifically fled and contingent upon a very specific set of actions. Okay. Yet I look at this plat, preliminary plat and I see the preliminary plat and say well, really what's being platted could basically be free standing or stand free of whatever hat.ns with Nez Perce or whatever. Okay. Because you could just fill that in, put a cul-de-sac in and bring it out Pleasant View. I mean you could even ch~sr~ge other options. You could, I mean some of the other ones that have been forwarded have cul- de-sacs further up Nez Perce that...out to Pleasant View. Can't l0 and ll simply say to the. se peopl~ you know we approve your preliminary plat but it's simply contingent upon the oulcome of the litigation? So these people don't have to come back in here and go throu~ ~ts whole process again if something gets slightly moved or negotiated one way or the other. It could be handled administratively versus contingent approval of the, oh my gosh. I mean it's so damn detailed it's a little bit mind boggling in itself. And you're slmost, if there's any dmng¢ with what I see here in l0 and 1 l, you've kind of desfln~ the~ people W come back through the proce~ again. Roger Knutson: It's like any other, in some ways it's like any other prelimlmlry plat coming thwugh here. If the changes between the preliminary and the final, I'll call modest, then you don't require 57 Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 them to go through the preliminary plat process again. If, and I don't think a Court order...any merit to their lawsuit as I told you. If, for whatever reason, changes are made, it depends on how extensive they are. If there's no connection t~ Nez Perce, for example. That could require rearranging of lots. If it's a minor change, and no change, then they can come back for the final plat. Councilman Senn: Okay, but again. There's this litigation and there's this suit sitting out there and a lot happens between now and the point that you end up in Court. I mean what if you simply negotiate or change something? Again, the way I read 10 and 11, no matter what you change, these people have to go back and start over. Isn't that right? Because they would be, I mean when you say contingent upon and name something this specific, anytime you change that, to me that's significant. If you simply said contingent upon litigation being resolved. Roger Knutson: These are all conditions you're imposing. You can waive those. Councilman Senn: Well I'm just asking you if you have a problem with that from a legal standpoint. I guess to get to the end of it. You know taking 10 and 11 and just simply saying this preliminary plat is contingent upon resolution of the lawsuit. Roger Knutson: I think it goes beyond that. I think there are other things involved. Other potentials having nothing to do with the lawsuit. Councilman Senn: Then I'm losing you. Roger Knutson: I'd prefer to ~_alk to you about it after the meeting. But I'm satisfied with these conditions. I would suggest that a few things. This lawsuit...going to amend it. 11 be amended to read, the last line. The preliminary plat street layout and the favorable resolution of pending litigation, it may be amended .... to read that way so then... If you want to take 5, lake a time out and I'll, take a recess and I'll be happy to... Councilman Wing: Why don't you square that away and then shake your head one way or the other. Councilman Senn: That'd be nice because it just seems to me we're holding these people hostage but at the same time I have a difficult time. Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, but we're not holding them off per se. They're satisfied with what's here. They're willing to accept all conditions that are contained in the recommendation. Councilman Senn: But at the same time the city is making a firm statement then that it has to end up precisely this way. Mayor Chmiel: The way, the legality aspect of it that our Attorney has determined the way that it should be. Roger Knutson: You can waive these conditions. 58 C~mhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 Councilman Senn: At a laIer dsie you mean7 Roger Knutson: Sure. Councilman Mason: And I don't know if this is, I guess this is above board. I'm seein~ ~MS saying, nodding their heads saying yeah. We're fine with the conditions the way they are fight_ now and it seems to me, I mean I hear what you're saying but it seems to me if they're okay with it, I'm okay with it. At Ibis point. Dennis Troy: ff I can be helpful to this process. I think the fact of the maRer is that the, _that litigation has to be resolved to the city's saflsfaaion and if it ends up being...realignment of Nez Perce or a cul-de-sac or whatever it's going to be, it's going to have to be 8omethin~ th~ 8illtgfle8 th~ city and presumably if it satisfies the city, it can either be amended in a fin_si plat approval or... We're not uncomfortable that our, to some degree our, I~ a large degree our destiny is in your hands and we have to work with you to make sure that you get satisfied in cormez:tion with that Cor~demnstjon. We're okay with it. Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Any other discussion? Councilman Senn: Well then I guess, just a malIer of discussion or staleme~ From my standpoint, there's no secret of it. I mean all alcag I have said I would like to see some changes here and I guess I'd still like to see sane changes. But I think we've kind of, even indicated to some people that we're still looking si changes. But to me this is just the way this is worded, we're eliminating thsi possibility so it cs_nses me some problems. Mayor Chmiel: When I get my law degree I'll argue the potm~ Councilmsn Senn: I'm just saying, I'm entitled to my personal opinion. Mayor Chmiel: That's fight but we're also ~qlcin! for a legal aspect from our alIomey who is professionally trained to give us the direction that we're looidn~ for. To make sure that the legalities are there. That's the only thing. Councilmm Senn: And I'm supporting the position lhsi you dedded. Coundlman Mason: I don't think lhis eliminates any of our options Mark and after we seO/e this, I want ~o address that for a couple of minutes ff I can. Councilman Win~: And what Mark is saying. PlvJiminary, conting~ upon the extension of Nez Perce, i.e. we have other solutions we may choose not to. Councilmm Mason: Yeah, we can throw that out ff we want to. Councilman Wing: I'm following Mark. Is that the case? S9 Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 Councilman Senn: Yeah. I mean that's what this says. This whole thing's contingent upon the extension of it, period. Mayor Chmiel: The previous discussion or the previous determination by Council vote for that direction at that particular time. Councilman Mason: And if that should change in the future, number 11 could then also be changed. Councilman Wing: At the final. Councilman Mason: At the final plat, or whatever. If we so choose to do that. Councilman Wing: Okay. Councilman Mason: And like I say, after we take care of this, I want to talk about that. Councilman Senn: No I mean I can go with that on a preliminary basis but I mean, I have real trouble with it at a final plat. Mayor Chmlel: Final is not here and won't be here for some time. Or maybe real quick. Okay. Any other discussions? If not, I'll call a question. Or ask for a motion. Roger Knutson: Just so we're clear. Can I read number 11. 11 will read, preliminary plat approval is contingent upon the extension of Nez Perce Drive, consistent with the preliminary plat street layout and the favorable resolution of pending litigation, tt may be mended. Mayor Chraiel: Of pending litigation? Okay. Coullctlman SelUl: Con~l'Bing the street extension stays on there Roger, or not? Roger Knutson: Pardon? Councilman Senn: Concerning the street. Roger Knutson: No, I took that out. Mayor Chmiel: Okay, Sharmin. Sharmtn Al-Jaff: Back to Colleen's first question about the conditions 10 and 11. Councilwoman Dockendorf: Do you have an answer? Sharmin AI-Jaff: Yes. But in terms if we take existing condition 10 out and leave. 60 Chanhagg~ City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 Roger Knutson: No. No. No. 10's staying in. Sharmin Al-Jarl: Okay. We need condition n~mber 11 but the deleted condition 11. Roger Knutson: 10 stays in. 11 goes in like it is as I Councilwoman Doclmn~rf: Yeah, but them was a deleted 11. Sharmin AI-Jaff: That was an error. Councilwoman Dockendorf: So your tnmm had been t~ delete 107 Or no? Roger gnutson: I don't know what their intent was. Kate Aanenson: Yes. Sharmin Al-Jarl: Yes. Councilwoman Dockendorf: That had be~m your ~ And to lmep in that red lined 117 Sharmin Al-SalT: Correct But Roger, ff you thtn~ that should stay. Roger Knutson: That's fine. Councilman Senn: So 11 becomes 12 and everything moves down, fight7 Councilwoman Dockendorf: Yeah. So we still want to relocate the two existing driveways. Kate Aanenson: The first 11 become~ 10. Councilwoman Dockendo~. But Roger's saying we need that 10. Roger Knutson: No, it's. I thought the staff wanted it in for some reason. Councilman Mason: Okay, now wait a minme. Councilwoman Dockendorf: So we're red lining the current 10. Roger Knul~n: 10 goes out. Councilwoman Dockendorf: And the 11 that is currently red lined, becames number 10. Mayor Chmiel: Ri~ht~ 61 Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 Councilman Mason: And is no longer red lined. Mayor Chmiel: Okay. With that clarification, eliminating 10. Putting 11 in as number 10 and keeping 11 as Roger has indicated. With the correction of the wording that's contained within that particular paragraph. Roger Knutson: You might just, so we're 100% clear on this, since we've already confused it enough. Favorable resolution. Favorable to the city. Councilman Senn: You mean that's another add you're making? Roger Knutson: Yes. Resolution favorable to the city of pending litigation, it may be amended. Don Ashworth: I suggested it. Councilman Senn: So does resolution now go before favorable? I think somebody better reread this whole thing and tell us what it says. Roger Knutson: Resolution favorable to the city of the pending litigation. Councilman Senn: So this now says, preliminary plat approval is contingent upon the extension of Nez Perce Drive, consistent with the preliminary plat street layout and the resolution favorable to the city of pending litigation, which may be amended? Roger Knutson: As may be amended. Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, as may be amended. Councilman Senn: Not which, as. Councilman Wing: I will move preliminary plat to subdivide 7.1 acres into 13 single family lots, Tower Heights Addition, JMS Development with the stated changes. Number 10, 11 and the amendment as stated by Roger. Councilman Senn: And your squared off comer I assume. Councilman Wing: Well, the squared off comer and the name change is additional. Remain Peaceful Lane for the entire length and Nez Perce to be a 90 degree entrance. Councilwoman Dockendoff: Second that motion. Councilman Wing: Thank you. Mayor Chmiel: There's a second to the motion but~ 62 City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 ]eft Schoenwetten. Before you finish that, I'd appreciate a chance to address that This is the first time that issue has come up. In my conversalions with the two only other residents on that street, Peace~, they would be okay with that street being named Tower Heights in it's mtim~. If the alignment you deem appropriate is the alignment A versus the staff report's preference for ali~munent B. And that may be reversed but the alignments that we're showing on our plat is clearly the ali~nment that was the preference of the study done to that street extension which you commi~loned at considerable expense several years ago. And so I may be confused. Are you pwposing a 90 degree alignment of what is now ~ Lane into what is Pleasam View or are you pwpost~ the realignment of Nez Perce? Jeff Schoenwetter: This is the first time we've heard about that and we have no objection to ~ our alignment but we have an objection to the name Peace~ Lane. 'I'nete~re ff you wan~ a 90 degree alignment, we would ask that if the street in it's entirety is going to be contiguous, as you call it Peaceful. We would like a name dmnge. Councilman Wing: Well this isn't, I guess the name change can be a separate issue here. First of all there's no compromise. So that's irrelevant. The 90 was at the last meeting here, the neighbor, as part of our decision, if it goes through, we're going to try and slow traffic down ~nd that dictated 90 degree turin. So that's a separate issue. The name change, right now we have ~aceful Lane. There's people living on Peaceful Lane. There's people that have busineases, canis, tel~ whatever the case. I don't know if the 3 people on Peal~ful Lane said they did not want to have to change addresses and names. It seems to me the new street ,nd the new people _o3min~ in would be best served by maint_~ininl what we have, and I'll leave that to Peaceful Lane. If the people on Pea~ful Lane are happy with that, I have no problem w~er. But I would have to have their approval before I would consider that left Schoenwetler. You have all but one resident here tonight. Jim Staason: For Todd, and Peaceful Lane...Conrad E/gan of Peacefifl Lane, I don't care about Tower Heights. I didn't particularly like the name Nez Perce but if Nez Perce comes in at a 90 degree, like you're talking about and then Peaceful Lane or Tower Heigl~, or whatever it's called, I guess it's inconvenient to change the l~sme but. Mayor Chmiel: It's a p~tn_ Jim Stasson: Yeah, it's a l~in but ff it has to be... Cotmcilman Wing: Well you have a choice here wnighL I'm going to represent your position. What do you want a Tower Heights address or Peace~ Lane address? Jim Stasson: Tower Hei/hts is fine. 63 Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 Councilman Wing: I'll withdraw that. Councilman Senn: What about the one that's not here7 Councilman Wing: We're'missing one. Todd Owens: We have a majority. Councilwoman Dockendorf: Why don't we say it needs to be a consistent name and we'll decide that later with the final plat. Councilman Wing: Okay. the addition then would be a consistent street name approved by all residents of Peaceful Lane. Mayor Chmtel: You can tell we've been sitting here too long watching this. Okay. Any discussion? Richard, do you have any? We have a motion on the floor with a second. And all the friendly amendments have gone with it. Councilman Wing: Yes. I just wanted to say for a minute there, a few minutes ago I thought we should cave in and let the attorney representing Mr. Beddor tell us what to do and how to mn the city and how we should develop. I just want to say very definitely, that when somebody comes in here and says if you don't agree with me, I'm not going to vote for you. I take real offense to that and I become emotional at that point. I'm an intelligent person. An emotionally stable person, and to even suggest that these decisions after 2 years of publtc beatings with the Public Safety Commission and this Council, to even intimate that that was an emotional decision or a personal tssue with a man I don't know. Have never met. And frankly have represented his position. Make sure he had time to speak. I don't think I've ever sat here and been at a loss for words. I don't think I've ever, ever sat on this Council and been more offended than I have by your comments tonight. And you're off base and you're out of line. I'll just tell you straight forward. There were no emotions in that decision. It was based on legal advice of a very competent legal finn and a city manager and his staff. What an absurd statement you made tonight. Very offensive and I don't think you represented your client well at all. Larry Moloney: If I offended you, I'm sorry. I didn't intend that Councilman Wing: I'm afratd there's probably more comments here. Mayor Chmtel: Colleen. Councilwoman Dockendorf: Ditto. Mayor Chmiel: Mike. Ctlanhassen City Coundl Meeting - Septem~ 13, 1993 Councilman Mason: Well, I personally think a lot of things that Mr. Moloney said, as I remember reading the Plann/ng Commission ~mtCt~, while I wasn't at that meeting I certainly talked with a number of people that were and I was a little surprised at some of the comments and I would just like to reiterate what my colleagues on the left have said. Mayor Chmi~: Okay. Any comment Mark7 Councilman Senn: I asked my questions. I made my statement. I have no further ediWrializing. Mayor Chmiel: And I just don't like being tnflmtd____ai~J_, 0110 way or the other. Councilwoman Dockendoff: ff I could just say one more thing. Mayor Chmiel: Other than ditto? Councilwoman Dockendoff: Yeah. Other than. I can speak furrier than that. I have some words, the vocabulary. We did address some of the safety issues at our last meettng, for people who may be watching. Probably no one at _this time but we lalked about stop sign~, etc and just to reiterate that in my view, the whole Pleasant View Road safe~ haues are really separate. Particularly from this development but in my mind from the whole shooting match. Mayor Chmiel: Okay. With that I'll call the queation on the motion that had been made with all the Councilman Wing moved, Councilwoman Dockendorf ~econded to Subdivision//93-12 for Tower Heights Addition as shown on the plans dated June 8, 1993, ~ubject to the following conditions: 1. All lots are required to have access from Tower I-Ie/ghts Drive. 2. The developer shall dedi~ to the city the utilities within thc right-of-way for permanent ownership. 3. Parks: Furl park fees shall be accepted in lieu of land dedication. These fees are to be paid at the time of building permit application at the rate then in force. Current pa~ fees arc $fi00 per lot. a. A 20-fl. easement for troll purposes shall be dedicated over the vacated section of IMacefifl Lane. c. The applicant shall be granted full trail fee credit in consideration for this cimstzucfion. Docume~ expenses above and beyond the $2,400 in trail fee credits to be paid by the dty. 65 Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 . . . . . All areas disturbed during site grading shall be immediately restored with seed and disc-mulched or wood fiber blanket within two weeks of completing site grading unless the city's (BMPH) planting dates dictate otherwise. All areas disturbed with slopes of 3:1 or greater shall be restored with sod or seed and wood fiber blanket. The applicant shall work with the City in developing a reforestation plan on the site. This plan shall include a list of all trees proposed to be removed and their size. The vegetated areas which will not be affected by the development will be protected by a conservation easement. The conservation easement shall permit priming, removal of dead or diseased vegetation and underbrush. All healthy trees over 6" caliper at 4' height shall not be permitted to be removed. Staff shall provide a plan which shows the location of the conservation easement and the applicant shall provide the legal description. Lot 12 shall be custom graded and shall provide a tree preservation plan for staff approval prior to issuance of a building permit. The same condition is applicable to Lot 13 should the applicant resolve the frontage and grading issues. Staff shall have the right to require a change in house pad and location if it will result in saving significant vegetation. A snow fence shall be placed along the edge of the tree preservation easement prior to grading. A retaining wall shall be incorporated along the front property line of Lots 1, 12, and 13, in an effort to preserve trees immediately adjacent to the right-of-way. All utility and sU~t improvements shall be constructed in acco~ with the latest edition of the City's standard specifications and detail plates. Detailed street and utility plans and specifications shall be submiRed for staff review and City Council approval. The applicant shall apply for and obtain permits from the appropriate regulatory agencies, i.e. Watershed District, MWCC, Health Department, and comply with their conditions of approval. The applicant shall enter into a development contract with the City and provide the necessary financial security to guarantee compliance with the terms of the development contract. 9. Street right-of-way shall be increased to 60 feet in width. 10. The applicant shall be responsible for relocating the two existing driveways (6500 and 6535 Peace~ Lane) to be perpendicular with the new street and paved with a bituminous or concrete surfac~ between the existing driveway and ~ street. 11. Preliminary plat approval is contingent upon the extension of Nez Perce Drive, consistent with the preliminary plat street layout and the resolution favorable of pending litigation as may be mended 66 C3~mnhnasen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 All concerning th~ street extension. 12. The appl~ shall be responsible for disconru~ing md reconnecl/ng the sanitary sewer and water service to the existing home on Lot 1 (Art Owens). An additional fire hydrmt shall be incorporated into the consm~on plans Just north of Lot 13 along Tower I-Iel~ Drive. 13. The grading plan shall be amended to provide drainage swales along the common lot lines_ to convey drainage away from the house sites al~ Lots 10, 11, 12 and 13. The applicant shall supply detailed storm sewer calculations for a 10-year sWrm event and provide pondin.q calculations for retention ponds in acco~ with City ordinance for the City ~ to review and approve. 14. The applicant shall submit to the City soil borinl information and include a draimtle system in accordance to City standards with the consUuaion plans. 15. The garage on Lot 12 sh_s_il be removed prior to approval of the final plat or and escrow ff shall be included in with the financial seauities to insure the removal of the garage. 16. The city shall sell a portion of the Water Tower land to the developer for a price to be detenninexi by the City Count. l?. The address for the existing home on Lot 1 (6535 Peaceful Lane) shall be dmnged to an address on Tower Hei/hts Drive. 18. The segment of Tower Heights Drive between the extension of Nez Perce Drive and the subdivision will be assessed back to the developer as well as thek fair share for the ~d~_ of 19. Lot 4 shall meet the city's mintmllm ~ lot size of 15,000 square feet. 20. The applicant will work with city staff to locate a retaining wall within the city right-d-way and voted in favor and the motion carried mmninmusly. 67 Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 PROPOSAL TO REZONE 11.5 ACRF~ ZONED PUD AND A2 TO RSF~ PRI*J.IMINARY PLAT TO SUBDIVIDE 11.5 ACRES INTO 20 SINGLi*. FAMILY LOTS~ SOUTH OF I:W. RON DRIVE ON THE EAST SIDE OF AUDUBON ROAD~ SHENANDOAH RIDGE~ SHAMROCK DEVELOPMENT. Public Present: Name Address Jim Stanton Bill Goers Shamrock Development 1601 Lyman Blvd. Sharmin Ai-Jaff: The applicant has 11.5 acres and is proposing to subdivide them into 20 parcels. The average lot size is 17,642 square feet All parcels. Councilman Senn: I'll move approval. Councilman Wing: Second. Councilman Mason: Unless you reany want to give your spiel. Sharmin Ai-Jaff: Thank you. Councilwoman Dockendoff: There is a comment. Mayor Chmtel: Yes. Anyone that would like to comment on this proposal before a vote is taken. It's getting late. Jim Stanton: ...I know enough to shut up and sit down most of the time. But here I am. Just a little point of clarification. Number 25 of the report we got today. I thtnk that's where the...get out of character and be a good guy for a change. I said I'd grade that street...at the bottom...taim out the topsoil. I just wanted to...something. I'll take out up to 3 feet of topsoil. If there's something down there that I don't know about. Mayor Chmiel: I think you were listening to one of the other applicants. lira Stanton: I'll talk with Dave Hempel but I just don't want to let it be known tonight and then go to hell and back to reach the bottom of thts...but other than that I have no problems with... Mayor Chmlel: Thanks. Any other one? Bill Goers: My name is Bill Goers and I own the adjacent property. This is the first meeting I've been to in quite a while and I'd like to know ff there's some fund you can contribute to so you can get in front of the Nez Perce people .... that the developer would like to talk further with Dave 68 HempeL.. to talk about the possibility...from the one side to the other. We're in agreement with - everything that's in the proposal. We're looking at possibly taking it one step further. Seeing if the additional cost, it doesn't make sense to do it fight now. And we talked about this in concept lind we, I just got the report today too so we need to look at it a Httle bit but everything in the proposal we're comfortable wi& We're working out some of the details on the thing but olimr than that... Councilman Senn: So you're working with the staff and the developer. Bill Goers: The staff and the developer... Mayor Chmiel: Any other discussion7 If seeing none, I'll call for a motion which has already been moved and seconded. Councilnmn Senn nmved, Coundlnmn Wing seconded to approve Rezoning #93-4 for property zoned A2 to RSF for Shenandoah Ridge, subject to the followin~ conditions: The applicant shall enter into a development contract conlatnt~ ail of the conditions of ~rmval for this project and shall submit aH requh~ finalE/al ~. The development c, onHluR shall be recorded against the ~. 2. The applicant shall meet aH comlitions of the Subdivision #93-14. and also approve Preliminary and Final plat for Subdivision #93-14 for Shenandoah Ridge Addition as shown on the plans dated July 6, 1993, subject to the foflowing conditions: le The developer shall ~ate the utilities within the right-of-way for permanent ownership. The applicant shall pay full park fees at the time of buil~ permit nppHc~c~ The applicant shall construct the portion of the city's com~e trail system previously described in this report. Specifically, from the southem curb of Heron Drive to the ~ tennimm of Lot 4, Block 2. This trail is to be 8 feet in width with bituminous sudadng per standard city specifications. In consideration for this consm~on, trail and pa& fees will be reduced by an amount equal to the cost consUuaion- Said costs to be determined by the applicant for presentation to the city with docum~on for verification- Current park and trial fees are $600.00 and $200.00 per s/ngle family unit, respectively. AU areas dis~ during site grading shaH be immediately x~.~mred with seed and disc-mulched or wood fiber blanket within ~WO weeks of completing site gradin8 unless the city's (BMPH) planting dates dictate otherwise. All areas ~ with slopes of 3:1 or greater shall be restol~ with sod or seed and wood fiber blanket. s The vegetated areas which will not be affected by the development will be ~ by a conservation easement. The conservation easement shall permit priming, removal of dead or diseaseA vegetation and underbmsk All healthy Uees over 6" caliper at 4' height shall not be permitted to be removed. The applicant shall provide the legal descri~n for the easement. A 69 Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 ! 1 conservation easement shall be placed on the following lots: Block 1, Lots 9, 10, 11, 12, 13; Block 2, Lot 4, and Block 3, Lots 1, 2, and 3. Staff is recommending the following trees be included within the tree preservation list and protected by the preservation easement. Trees number 1, 5 through 8, 10, 16, 17, 21, 22, 25 through 32, 36, 39 through 63, 73, 74, 78, 79, 81 through 84, 86, and 108 through 110. The existing wells is no longer in use and all sewage treatment systems shall be properly abandoned and furnish proof of abandonment to the Inspections Division. A city permit is required for on site sewage treatment system abandonment. This should be done concurrently with site grading. The applicant must obtain city demolition permits from the Inspections Division for structures that will be removed (prior to removal). 7. The address for the existing home on Lot 10 shall be changed to Alisa Court. 10. 11. e 1 The south end of Alisa Court shall have a temporary cul-de-sac. This cul-de-sac shall be barricaded with a sign indicating that the road will be extended in the future. All lots shall be notified in the chain of title that the street is a temporary cad-de-sac anti will be extended in the future. Alisa Court, south of Osprey Lane, shall be renamed Alisa Lane which is consistent with its ultimate extension. All street and utility improvements shall be constructed in accordance with the City's latest edition of Standard Specifications and Detail Plates. Street construction plans shall also include a draintile system behind the curbs to accommodate household sump pump discharge. Detailed construction plans and specifications for utility and street improvements shall be submitted to the City for review and approval prior to final platting. Final construction plans and specifications are subject to City Council approval. The applicant shall submit revised detailed storm drainage and ponding calculations to verify pipe sizing and pond volumes. Storm sewers shall be designed and constructed to a 10-year storm event and a retention/detention pond shall be reviewed by the City Storm Water Management engineer and constructed pursuant to the guidelines implemented by the City's Storm Water Management Plan. Revised final grading and drainage plans shall be submitted for staff's review and approval. The applicant shall include with the street comlxuction plans, auxiliary turn lanes along Audubon Road. The auxiliary turn lanes shall be designed and constructed in accordance with MnDOT standards. 12. The applicant shall dedicate to the City, the necessary temporary roadway easements for portions of the temporary cul-de-sac (Alisa Lane) lying outside the public right-of-way. 70 Chanlmssen City Coundl Meeting - September 13, 1993 AJ 20-foot wide utility and drainage easement between Lots 5 and 6, Block 1. 20-foot wide utility and drainage easement between Lois 8 and 9, Block 1. Necessary utility and drainage easements for ail pond retmfion/detention areas. 13. The existing house on Lot 10, Block 1 shall connea to the municipal sanitary sewer system within 30 days/ffter becomt~ available to the site. 14. The existing house on Lot 10, Block 1 shall reloca~ its driveway to access flae new street within 30 days after the new street is constructed. 15. The City will assess the development for 20 units in,qeagi of the 14 unim as ~ in the feasibility report for Project No. 91-17. 16. Staff is in support of a 10% street grade and therefore recomm~s approval of any necessary variances to allow the 10% street grade. 17. The City will not permit open cutting of Audubon Road for the extension of utilities ~ the ~. 18. Access to the lots shall be from the inl~rior ga'eem and not Audubon road. The comer lots (Lots 1 and 13, Block 1, Lot 1, Block 3, and Lot 2, Block 2) shall take access from Alisa Court and not Osprey Lane. Driveway access W Lot 1, Block 3 and Lot 2, Block 2 shall be limited to the easterly half of the lot. 19. A mixture of 10 additional dedduous and conifers trees be added along the westerly edge of the site. 20. Housing type desi~ons and floor elevations am not shown as required by the City Building Official. Plans shall be ~rised to reflect _tht~ condition_ 21. The necessary drainage and utility easements for all storm sewers and pond retention/detention areas outside the plat~ right-of-way shall be conveye~ to the City. 21 Final plat approval shall be contingent upon the applicamt working with th~ adjacent ~ owner (Goers) in acquiring the necessary drainage and utility easemenm for consmmflon of the storm sewer system and temporary retention pond lying outst___d_e the plat. 23. The applicant shall be responsible for excavating up to 3 ~ of topmil material prior to placement of the roadbed material for the constmaion of Osprey Lane through the Goers' property. In addition, the applicant shall be responsihle for com'm~don of the gwnn sewer from Shenandoah Ridge to the ~ retention pond. Contingent upon dedication of the right-of-way for the extension of Osprey Lane through the Goers' property and the applicant ~ the roadbexi to subgrade, the City will construct at no cost to the applicant or Goers an ~ street section to connect Lake Susan Hills West 8th 71 Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 Addition to Shenandoah Ridge. 25. The developer agrees, in writing, that the plat shall be assessed $44,900 for the extension of trunk sanitary sewer and water mains to provide service to the property. Said assessments shall be deemed adopted on the date this contract is signed by the city. The developer waives any and all procedural and substantive objections to the special assessment, including but not limited to hearing requirements and any claim that the assessment exceeds the benefit to the property. The developer waives any appeal fights otherwise available pursuant to M. S. A. §429.081. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. Councilman Mason: Do we have to do item 2(e) or is that just kind of? Mayor Chmiel: We also have to do the acceptance of 9. This is for the approval of plans and specs in the development contract. Councilman Mason: So moved. Councilman Senn: Second. Councilman Mason moved, Councilman Senn seconded to approve the plans and specifications and development contract for Shenandoah Ridge, Project 93-20 from the Consent Agenda. All voted in favor and the motion carried. DISCUSSION OF TEMPORARY SALES FOR TARGET. Kate Aanenson: This is a request from Target to have outdoor sales of pumpkins. When people request they also ask for...We still feel like this temporary use ordinance makes a lot of sense instead of making them go through the interim use process. Christmas tree saies...Meanwhile, while we're working through this process...It's a PUD. We did address it as a part of the PUD contract... Councilman Senn: Is the action tontght then to spectflc~ly approve one time, this season, they can sell pumpkins on the Target and it simply is for the reason that it allows the existing pumpkin stand to move over there and sell pumpkins on Target's property7 Kate Aanenson: No. It's a separate stand. Councilman Senn: So Target is going to be selling pumpkins? Kate Aanenson: Correct. Mayor Chmiel: With some kind of promotion that they're proposing. Kate Aanenson: They're opening in October... 72 Chanhassen City Council Meetl~ - September 13, 1993 Councilman Senn: Okay, but how does this relate back to no outside sales and no outside stuff? I feel real weird about this but I mean to me it's just going to open Pmdora's box. If we allow pum~ this time and the Christmas trees are going to [x~ there, ~ we're going to have every charitable organization back in here...because they're selling Christmas trees and_ I don't know. I'm having trouble. Councilman W-rog: I remember when Steve Emmings on SuperAmerlca made it ~ clear there was going to be no signs, no outdoor storage, no outdoor saies, no nothing and that station looks nice because of it and I ngree with you. Th__at's somehhing to really st~ and hold the line on fight now. Councilmm Stun: ff they want to have pumpkins as part of an ope_n~o promotion and put lhem inside the store and make, and give them away as part of the store. I have a real problem opening this up outside. Councilman Wing: I agree. Ditto and I'll back off. Mayor _C~miel: Any other thoughts? I was Just look-lng at the letter that was written and just seeing that they house these in a wooden bin and of course that is outside tn the front ~ doors. Ithink What happens if you came out from shopping _an~_ just grabbed one aM walked out. Councilman Mason: I'm sure lhe citizenry of Chanhas~n would never do that. Mayor Otmiel: Oh I agree, but I'm talking about other people...What's Council's f~eling? Cotm~lman Sel~.' 'I would move we not approve it and wait for consider of and to comment to and to change it or what~ver. Kate Aanenson.' Wait until you see the temporary use ordinance? Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, I think that's probably a good idea because we did have a lot of discussions for the last few years in regard to outside storage and it does look clean and it does look nice~ Councilman Mason: I'll admit prior to this discussion, I was going to say ah, why not. Councilman V~mg: It's America. Councilman Mason: But some excellent point__ have been brougl~ up here though. I mean that certainly would open up that Pandora's Box and what not. I agree. Mayor Cl~miel: Okay. Motion's been mn_d_e_, and is the~ a second? 73 Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 Councilman Mason: Second. There was a second already? Oh, I take my second back. Councilman Wing: Although if my company fails, I may need a job there. Councilman Senn moved, Councilman Wing seconded that the City Council deny the request for Target to sale pumpkins outside. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. SET SALE DATE FOR BONDS OF 1993. Don Ashworth: Dave MacGillivray is with us tonight with Springstad. During the break he distributed this document here. You might look and see if you can find that in front of you and with that I'll turn it over to Dave. Oh, we should note, well he'll present it. We're recommending a change in the date but Dave will go through that. Dave MacGillivray: I'll try and be brief but it's about $10 million so I at least want to go over some of the basics. What we're asking for is a resolution setting the sale date for getting competitive bids on four issues. Two tax increment issues, one improvement issue, that being repaid by special assessment, and one tax increment refund being issued. The total is slightly under $10 million. The packet I gave out, I think we can cut to the chase in Just a few pages, ff you turn to page 7. We use this to explain the composition of the...Is everybody there. Across the top we have the (30 Tax Increment Fund of 1993 B and there are four different projects there. All of those would be repaid by tax increment district No. 1, which is the pre-1979 district. The big one. The one on the far right, the GO tax increment bond, Series 1993 D where it says land. That land is for acquisition of school property. That is repaid by increments in Tax Increment District No. 3 which is the McGlynn District. If you go down here where it says total...$630,000.00. And TIF 3 under land, $680,000.00. What we've done in conjunction with the city staff is develop where all of the good money is coming from and where it is going...for everything for both of these districts, ff you turn the page and that's page 8. This is an...starting right now of all the anticipated revenue that is now on the books. Less all the expenditure that is on the books and would be on the books after this issue. To show you where or how much money you have in the bank at the end. This goes out to the year 2001. The beginning balance of 1993, $1,051,313.00. That's from the audit financial statements...1992. Under revenue, the big line there is tax increment 1 and 2. What that figure represents is projects that are already in the ground for which you are collecting taxes now or things that are under construction...If you skip down to expenditures, the big one there is loan payments. That's really everything that is currently outstanding. This is TIF #1 which is pre '79 so there's a lot of things in there. New issue right under that is this issue. How that would come out as an expendi~. And that gives you an ending balance which is the second to the bottom line. At the end of 1993, the estimate is $1,362,000.00 and you see over time that as you get out to here at 01...So this is a lot less than I think you've seen before but you're selling close to $6 million worth of bonds right here...so just to give you an e~imate. Funds that would be available at the time... Mayor Chmiel: Dave, what's the going rate right now? Dave MacGillivray: Okay, whoa. I think they're about 4% on these issues. 4 1/4%. Somewhere in 74 ~sen City Council Meeting - SelXember 13, 1993 that neighborhood, depending on how long they go o~ So like everything else, it's been down there. It's staying down there and... It's at a 25 year low fight now. So what we're asking on the sale date, if I cnn just kind of cut to that. I know it's g _emng late. We originally scheduled this for your regular meeting on the 27th. There's a lot of things going on in the market in the State on that day. Other people have already scheduled sales for $30 or $40 million as well in Mtnn_e~tota of comparable general obligation which means you would nm into a lot of traffic. And there's a lot of issues the next Tuesday and Wednesday. What I'm asking is your consideration to have a special meeting on October 4th at 5:00. A quorum of 3 people or more. There's nobody else on the calendar anywhere scheduled to sell in Minnesota that day. The following Tuesday and Wednesday there's another 9 or 10 sales scheduled so I think that it's in your best interest to try and be alone..Jn town today we had I think 9 sales today. Some of those didn't get any bids. When you have multiple issues where you've got 3 or 4 here, they'll go after the big ones and leave some of the Httle ones with nobody bidd_tng on them...That's why we're recommending a special meefi'ng. It would take 10 to 15 minutes to go over these sales...I don't think rate wise, nothing's going to push this up significantly or insignifl~y... Don Ashworth: May I add a couple of quick poir~__? All of the projects that are in front of you are either included in the, as it deah with lax increment issues, are in the tax increment plans. They have been approved as a part of that document so they're nothing new. They're as they were originally outlined. All of the GO issues are literally 100% assessed with the one exception of the, is it the Teton Lane? The one we just got through assessing 2 hours ago or 6 hours ago or wlumever it was. But again, all of the projects have been in front of you or in front of the HRA. Dave MacGillivray: The only olher thing~ We do have one...as rates have moved down a Httle bit. That's on page 17 is the estimate given Wday's rates. It basically show~..tax increment bonds of 1987 would only be refunding those maturities which are subject to prepayme~ That is 1997 on out We show total net savings afar all costs of $125,000.00 over that time period. The presem value of that in today's dollars was approximately $110,000.00. The present value terms of 25% reduction in the interest cost of those bonds. So we _think it has a fairly decca_ _ retired to pumne. You do have the discretior~.. Councilman Senn: Don, is there a list of those projects in here7 Don Ashworth: Yeah. Dave MacGillivray: The list of the projects for the improvement bonds are on page 13. Don Ashworth: While you're looking those up, one additional point _snd that is, I brought back predictions about 2-3 months ago basically saying it was some of the tax reductions, etc, the wish list had basically dropped from $11 million down $4. Dave went through independent calculations as it deals with tax increment district. He basically came back with th~ same $4 million surplus posiflo~ That's what he just presented here 2 or 3 minutes ago. Dave MacGilHvray: The following page has a similar projection on tax inavanent district No. 3 from McOlynn. And that shows, I was going over it with Todd earlier lifts evening. .75 Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 Don Ashworth: But that ties in with the earlier projects we had. Dave MacGilltvray: That shows that district term~a_tea... Councilman Senn: Which page are you on? Dave MacGillivray: Page 9. Cotmcilman Senn: So the listing of the projects you started with is on page 13. Dave MacGilliv~y: That's for the improvement issue. Councilman Senn: That's for the improvement issue and then the rest is on. Dave MacGillivray: The rest of the projects is on page 7...The projects for the tax increment issue on page 7. The projects for the improvement issue on page 13. And page 8 is a cashflow projection for tax increment district No. 1. And page 9 is a similar project for tax increzaent district No. 3. And shows you the assessment... Don Ashworth: We might not have been as keen about going through the one refunding but we're in excess of the $5 million dollar. As long as we stay under the $10, it really doesn't matter. So why not put $150,000.00 in your pocket if you've got the chance. If we would have been under the $5, that means we would have gone over the arbitrage mark. Had that been the singular issue but again, since we're over the $5, it really didn't make any difference. Dave MacOlllivray: There's two Federal laws that provide incentive. You're either under $5 or under $10 so you're going to be over $5 and try to remain under $10. It's a half of percentage point. Don Ashworth: That's what I was trying to say. Councilman Senn: Don, is West 78th, is that just basically the street construction there then? Don Ashworth: That is the realignment. That is County 17. That is the reconstruction throughout the downtown. That is the signals. Councilman Senn: Okay, so the whole roadway. Don Ashworth: The whole ball of wax. Councilman Senn: Okay. And Market Square is, what a continuation or what7 Don Ashworth: Market Square is under bonding from the last time around right7 76 Chanhassen i~ity Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 Tom Chaffce: He's asking about ti~ biaflra~ Square item here and that is a clean-up, that's finalization of the Market Square project. Councilman '~m: It's putting $400,~.00 more into the projcoO; ~That wasn't in the original cost or what? · - Dave MacOtlllvray: I think it is covering expenditures that have al~ady beau inaurexL ' ; · Tom Chaffee: It's covering our current deficit. : Dave MacGillivray: Meaning your previous bonding amount did not consider those expendilm~.- They are reimbursing itself with those expeadilm~. Which I think i.s similar with the downto~ Don Ashworth: Yep. : : Councilman Senn: Is downtown, on which projects is that reimbursement for? Tom Chaffee: Do you want to take him back to 198.6 Don on tht~ one? Councilman Senn: Well it's, just a couple major ones or sore .ething. Tom Chaffee: It's a culmination of the entire do ~.wnWwn redevelopment project ~ntch included the north side parking, the Country Suites project, all of them finally rolled into one.place where we would pinpo~, that's lt. It's done and this is how much money we need to finish tt off. : Councilman Senn: Okay, so this is nothing going ;.forward in terms of proje/~ that haven't been done yet? Tom Chaffee: These items, other than the West 78th, the items' _th~ '~ou see from that point to the right are reimbursement. They're clean-up. Finalization. Don Ashworth: Well they're negative balances on our books right now. What We're trying to do is turn them into not pluses but zero's. Tom Chaffec: The next thing you'll see is a tist of ~ fund closings, closing those... Councilman Senn: In the middle of page 7 is the first time I ever seen the word discoum as an add. Coundlman Wing: Were you worried about that downtown $364,000.00 was a bill from HGA? Councilman Senn: No. There's just a whole ton 6f numbem Of here and I assume you're asking us to approve $6 million in bonds, I'd kind of like to know what they're for. Councilmm Wing: I apologize. 77 Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 Mayor Chmiel: With much of the explanations that have been provided to us, I think what you're asking for is to have a special meeting on October 4th rather than as indicated, September 27th. At 5:00 and how does that look on everybody's agenda? Councilwoman Dockendorf: That's fine. Mayor Chmiel: Looks fine? Good. Councilman Senn: What are we doing tonight then? Just simply setting the date or are we? Mayor Chmiel: Setting the date for the day of the sale. And he'll probably back in with a 3.9%. Councilman Senn: I mean when the does sale of the bonds get authorized? Dave MacGillivray: October 4th. You review the bids and determine whether you want to award to the underwriters of the bid. Councilman Senn: Okay but, Don just one more question if I could before we ask. I mean we're selling $10 million of bonds then but our need is for $6 million? Don Ashworth: No. Our need is for $10. Well, I don't know how you want to classify the refunding. To me as long as we've gone over the $5, we've passed the one barrier so why not do the refunding, which actually will put another $130,000.00 in your pocket. I think that was the final, $130,000.00. Dave MacGillivray: See you're cancelling some bonds. You're going to refund them. You're going to cancel out the old ones so you'll net out all these things. Mayor Chmiel: We're getting rid of some high interest and going low. Dave MacGlllivray: ...you have $8 million of new money needed and $2 million of refunded. Mayor Chmtel: Okay, can I have a motion? Just set the date for bonds of 1993 for October 4th at 5:00. Councilman Mason: So moved. Mayor Chmiel: Second. Councilman Wing: Are they going to feed us or not'/ Councilman Mason: For 10 minutes7 Resolution//93-88: Coundiman Mason moved, Councilwoman Dockendorf seconded to set the sale date for bonds of 1993 for October 4, 1993 at $:00 p.m. All voted in favor and the motion 78 SET DATES FOR ~ TRUTH IN TAXATION I:I~A~INGS AND PROPOSlgD 1994 TAX LEVY (SET ADMINISTRATIVELY). Don Ashworth: The truth in taxation hearing dates is required by the City Council The _St~_ _o- did it to you again in ~erm$ that we have a very narrow window in there. November 29th thru December 20th to pick out at least two dates, ff not a third but we carmot duplicate dates that have already been set by Hennepin County, one of the school districts or special districts. So we're kind of the last ones in line. I think out of the, what 13 non-w~ dates, 8 of those have already been chosen so we Uterally only have :5 non-weekemd dates ope~ Councilwoman Dockendorf: And_ what are they? Don Ashworttc Those being November 30th, December 8, 9, 10, and 13. Staff is recommending that we look at November 30th as the heating date with the secondary date, if a _coml~on heating is requtred, that it be set for December Sth. fflbe~wouldliketbe9th, flmt'sflnetoo. Andflmt we then anticipate that we'd ac0zffiy have adoption on the 13th. So we're _se~tln_ ~ a flr~ date of November 30th. We sincerely believe that we can finish th~ ~ that nighL That w~ will not have to do a continuation- But fi'we had such a crowd here present that we had to conlJnne it, then it would be continued on December 8th, 9th and potentially to the 10th with then agotn_ Now ff you do a continuation heating, you c.~xmot adopt the budg~ on the same night as the confirmed heating. So then you would go to the December 13th, which is a regular City Council meeting for the actual adoption_ Mayor Chmiel: Okay. That's just a back-up. Don Ashworth: Correct. Now ff you'd like to throw in a Saturday morning, the problem I had. I was looking for S~_mrday morning in here, which I thought might be Idnd of a good idea. But we've got National League of Cities is the December 1st thru the Stl~ We'll have 2 members gone on that. And I had, let's see. There's got to be at least, how did the requirement go. Pive ~ days from the date of the first heafing to the date of tbe ~ one. And those cannot be, yeah. Bustnessdays. Mayor Chmiel: Okay, so we're really looking at the hearing date for November 30th with the back-up of December 8th and ff we have to, go to December 13th. Right7 Don Ashworth: The continuation, if we needed it would be the 8th or 9th. And then the adoption would be set for the 13th. ff that would work for your calendars. I don't know. Mayor Ciuni~: I don't have mine here ~o I'm going to say it's okay. Coundlman Senm Yeah. What time on the 30th7 79 Chanhasser~ City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 Don Ashworth: That would be. This is a special bearing so it's really up to the City Council. I mean if you wanted, and the intent is to get the public to come out. So they're going to be sent a notice in the mail saying come to the City of Chanhassen. Mayor Chmiel: How about. 7:00? Councilwoman Doc~ndorf: a.m. Mayor Chmiel: No such luck. Too early. Don Ashworth: And then we'll do the continuation on 7:00 p.m., the same way? Mayor Chmiel: 7:00 p.m. also. Don Ashworth: Again, I do not think that we would look, does the Council have a desire on either the 8th or 9th? Mayor Chmieh Just so long as it isn't the 7th. Councilwoman Dockendorf: The 9th is Hannkksh. It may be a poor date for some people. Don Ashworth: Okay, say the 8th then...As pan of this process I should note that we will be then sending an amount down to the County Auditor which will be as a pan of the hearing. We try to make it very clear that this is an amount that has been set administratively so as to insure that the City Council. Everyone knows that the City Council has not seen this number and that the City Council may reduce it from that number as a pan of the bearings. And we have absolutely nothing from the County so in other words, I have no idea as to what our tax base has increased from 1993 to anticipated 1994. As we're sitting here tonight, I would be inclined to set that at 6%. I think that that would give the Council then the ability to reduce it fi'om that and be into a position of a no tax increase. I sincerely think our valuation increase will come out somewhere around 6% so if you drop it less than that, you will actually create a tax decrease. But one of the things I noted in here was, we don't have any idea at this point in time what type of request we may have from our departments. About the only one I really know about is the Fire Department. They will be looking over the next 3 to 4 year period of time of making equipment requests of about $700,000.00. Ou'rently I anticipate being able to fund roughly $100,000.00 per year over the next 3 to 4 year period of time. If we had to supplement that by an additional $100,000.00, as a pan of a 3, 4, $ year program. Let's put it thi.~ way. Each percent produces roughly $100,000.00 per year. So you know if you want to fully have an edge on that type of thing, then I should set it at potentially 8%. But I guess on the other side I don't want to scare the residents and have a notice going to them that shows a tax increase. Mayor Chmiel: NO. I like that truth in taxation. ~t's always a fun night. Councilman Wing: There's some major issues Don, aside from the Fire Department. There hasn't necessarily been a lot of planning there and suddenly we have old equipment that's got to be replaced. 8O I would rather see this occur and escrow this money than suddenly get into a refermdum and have to bond and pay interest on this money. So that doem't make sense to me. And also, a big issue coming up is capital outlay for parks. Spectfi~y the Mtnnewashta Pazk. It's going to. cost money. They're either going to have to get the money and buy the pink or they're not going to ~have it. It's going to be black and white. The land's gone and _that_ isn't going to be done cheap. The TH 101 trail. It's going to cost money. And that money's not going to be cheap. If we're gotn~ to do these improvements, people are crying for tra~c in the city. ff they warn Cadillac services, there's going to be some Cadillac money put out. And we could cut back and curtail this city by 10%, 15%, 20% and get by. Get rid of CSO's and animal control, etc, etc, etc but people don't want thaL Surveys indi~ that 80 I think this 8% i$ fair and reasonable and ff we have to back down, we should do so. On the other hand, if the residents want these services, we're going to need that money to provide them. Mayor Chmiel: ...we do until we get to the next meeting. Don Ashworth: Also givin~ me guidance in terms of, in other words, if you're really appalled with the 6 or 8 or wbotever, I do need to send that to the County Auditor by the 15th. Mayor Chmiel: I think it's something we're going to really have to address and look at that and I don't disagree with some of the needs that we basically have to have wimin th~ city Dick [Rlt I thtn~ there's a certain amount of fiscal responsi~ that we have to do to the residents of this community and I think we have to look at that · Coundlwoman Dockendorf: But we can always back away from that 8%. Mayor Chmiel: That's com~ Councilman V~mg: And the 6 is arbim~ as the 8. It could be 4. We have no idea what the number is. Mayor Chmiel: You're guessing. Don Ashwortlc And there is a possibility that when I get the nombe~ from tile County, that it ~ be a 10% increase. I mean the valuation could be going up 10% so by setting it at 8%, you're still creating a 2% reduction- Then if hammer~n~ away the budget you cut it even further, I really don't think that's going to be the case because mis year's valonflon will be based on _permits that were drawn 2 years ago which was a lower year for us. So I don't see double digit type of increases that we've seen in some of the years, and which we'll ~ly see again next year. But for '94, I _think 6% is probably going to be real close to what you had ns far as true growth. Councilman Senn: If you have to tell the County that in 2 days, you know...and when do we have the oppommity to actually sit down and talk about it and plan you know what we're going to look at in relationship to that? 81 Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 Don Ashworth: That would be pan of your work session which really is the next thing I kind of wanted to look at. I had recommended October 18th to November lSth. Off Monday evenings and the end of October and November's work sessions. October 18th. We should have one more date in Councilman Senn: Octobe~ 18th, November lSth and November 29th? Don Ashworth: I should have one more off Monday in here. November 1st should be an off Monday. Councilwoman Dockendorf: Yes it is. Don Ashwonh: So that would give us four work sessions. If you had October 18th, November 1st, November 15th, and if necessary November 29th. Councilman Senn: And those work sessions would be for strictly budget? Mayor Chmiel: Strictly the budget, yes. Don Ashworth: We try to do something early. You know do a 5:00 type of thing. Councilman Mason: That would be food. Don Ashworth: That would be food and we would get out of here by 7:00-7:30. Mayor Chmiel: Can I have a motion to set those dates? Councilman Mason: Well, do we need to do. Don Ashworth: You're also acknowledging the number that I'm putting in here so. So if you want me to acknowledge 6%, that's fine. If you're telling me you'd rather see it be 7% or 8%, that's fine too. Councilwoman Dockendoff: Split the difference and do 7%. Mayor Chmiel: I like that 6% myseff but. Councilwoman Dockendorf: I don't think it's going to create a public scare. I mean you know. Because we can always put the caveat. We can back away. We're just trying to cover ourselves because we're working with no information. Mayor Chmiel: I'll talk to you about it later. Don Ashworth: Do we have a majority? I mean I'm hearing 6. I'm hearing (5 with Mark. I'm 82 Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 Don Ashworth: And Mike is7 Cotmcilman Mason: I kind of like 7 poinL Well you know, I kind of feel my mil is to guide Don and you're is to manage and I think ff you're comfurtable with 6%, I concur with that. The other thing, I'm concerned about what Dick is saying too snd how in 2, how are we going to recondle all that stuff at 6%? Mayor Chmicl: Maybe we ca~ That we don't know. Don Ashworth: Then the possibility would be, if you went to the 7%, it would only be with the condition that the additional percent would be dedl~ solely m flr~ equit~nent requests. Councilman Wing: I don't know. Maybe parks take pdor~. I'm not specifying anything here. There's a list of fl'dng$ here. It could be any one of the things you mentioned. I don't w~nt to pick one from the other. Mayor Chmiel: Ge~emen, I'd like to wind this up before midnighL Don Ashworth: Did you flip a coin7 Councilman Mason: While I do share Dick's concerns but like I said, I'll go with 6%. Resolution//93-89: Councilman Mason moved, Councilman Wing seconded to set the dates for the Truth in Tmfion hearings for November 30, 1993 at 7:00 p.n~ with an alternate date of December 8, 1993 ff needed, with adoption on December 13, 1993 at a proposed tax levy rate of 6~. All voted in favor and the motion carried unaninmusly. COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS: Councilman Mason: I want to talk about the ~ station at Lotus Lake ami I know Art, bless his heart has had to sit through this whole evening to stick around for this _snd you're more, you're as tenadous as I am on Ibis one and I'm quite honestly glad to see you here still. I think it's ironic that we had this discussion, or had all of this silt and lawn going ~ Lotus Lake today. While we confim~e apparently to have problems with the lift station at Lotus Lake. Now I did talk with Charles earlier in the weeJt about the NSP power failure which we have no control over. The fact is feces arc still flowing. I know we do have a portable generator on order that is supposed to be here the first of November. Councilman WinE: Could you just define the problem. What's oixparrin~ down there7 83 Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 Councilman Mason: Well, sewage is going into the lake. Councilman Senn: And more than one lift station. It's 'not just one. There's two lift stations with sewage going in every time it rains. · Councilman Mason: And quite honestly we got, you know I didn't alt on that.Surface Water Management Program for nothing. We're not, we haven't gone through this b~ouhaha 'for '14 recreational beachlots for nothing. And we need to get to the bottom of the problem here. And I understand that thts last failure that had trucks going at 2:00 In the morning up those grades, keeping people awake, was unavoidable from a power standpoInt but then as has been pointed out to me by any number of people, it's still happening whether electrlctty's flowing there or not. We've got sewage going Into the lake. And we've got to figure out what the problem ts and It's got to be dealt Councilman Wing: What's the level? Cotmcilman Senn: Well this issue came up one or two meetings ago when we approved that new homing development and we talked about It extensively, and basically Charles said that they were upsiztng the mechanisms in the pump, or the lift stations to handle additional capacity. But he said, I'm just going back to quote Charles. Charles satd that the main problem here remained the, how would I say it, the discharge of the sump pump into the santtary sewer system which was (a), Illegal and (b), unpoliced and stuff so we approved that subdivision but it was contingent upon several things. I was getting the generator. 2 was an education program to get sumps out of the sanitary sewer. And 3, to enforce getting, or I mean an enforcement program to get sumps out of the sanitary sewer because Charles was telling us that the only solution to the problem. Then I found out, from the same gentleman, because this all came up over a different ltft station. Now the one to the north which is the one we're talking about tonight, is doing the exact same thing. So now you have two lift stations over there in a very short area that every time it rains, and it's not just rain like this morning. Every time It rains peflod we're throwing raw sewage into the lake. Councilman Wing: Is this physically visible? Councilman Senn: Oh yes. Go dflve by it. It's pretty appalling. Councilman Mason: Yeah. Mayor Chmtel: Yeah, they've tried to do some corrections to some of those areas by putting In additional pits but it doesn't seem to be really doIng it and also by having more specifically when the power goes out on them, they're able to have one generator but you can't facilitate all pumps with one generator. And that becomes a problem. I asked Charles to do some checking with NSP to see if they had a standby generator clause contained within their contracts whereby they provide those at x number of dollars. I don't know if he's found that out yet or what. He was goIng to do some checking on it. 84 Cbantiassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 Councilman Senn: It was my understanding that the portable generators, after following up on that, you're looking at a minimum timeframe, ff the power goes out, of 15 mlrn _m~_.8 to it half hour tO get it OUt to a lift station, and that's only if they probably g~t somewhat in tune with the Fire DeparUn~ to skills and drills which I think are kind_ of doubtful. Mayor C~mlel: No, they have a better system now with the telemetering that they have within all the stations. That does trip, someone does take care of that ~ it immediately goes whereas before ~ didn't know unless someone said, hey the light went on. Councilman Senn: But in 15 minutes, I mean even if they go tmmedia~ly, the amou~ Of raw sewage going in I think is still incomprehensible. Can't we look at a program where if we have this problem in lift stations, that we should have a generator in every lift station? To me ltmt's mmll dollars slxmt. I mean the cost of generators for what we're trying to accompliah_ Mayor Chmiel: No, it im't small dollam It's large dollars beouse you're talking... Councilman Senn: I'm talking for the environmental benefit Don. Mayor Chmiel: It's 3 phase for each of those rea~xx~ive areas. Councilman Senn: 3 phase generators you mean? Mayor Chmiel: Yes. Councilman Masou: I guess, there's a major problem. I questiou if, well. We've got raw sewage going lnW Lotus Lake and I would like to burden an already ~ staff and get some kind of report or some kind of feedba~ about what can be done in the short term to alleviate tlmt problem and what can be done in the long term to alleviate that problem. Mayor Chmiel: For short term, when would you like a response back to you7 Coundlmm Mason: Well, it would be great to have it in 2 weeks but I also know what's go/rig an in the city fight now. But that doesn't help the sewage totaling into Lotus Lake so. Mayor Chmiel: I don't disagree with that. Councilman Mason: I guess I see this as a high priority ttan rlg~ now. Coundlman Wing: If this were Minnewashla, boy I frankly, they're concerned about 5 tx)als. What would they say about raw sewage going into their lake? Councilman Senn: Well they know about ir.. 85 Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 Mayor Chmiel: MPCA is aware of it and there's nothing you can really do to alleviate that situation unless we were to do something. I think maybe if we gave it to the manager to talk to the City Engineer to get the information back to us within a short period of time, no longer than 2 weeks. With some cost estimates and to find out whether or not NSP does have a proposal or a plan to assist cities as such. CounciLman Senn: But again I don't want to get lost just in the issue of the generators because the generators are small part of the problem. I mean the amount of rime power is going out is inconsequential compared to the number of times those stations have overflowed with, it has nothing to do with the power. Councilman Wing: That's capacity? Councilman Senn: That's capacity. Mayor Chmiel: Some are a capacity problem. Others are generation. My understanding on most of them that are from being out of power. Councilman Senn: Well these two on Lotus Lake are both capacity. Because they lose sewage every time it rains. Councilwoman Dockendorf: And you're saying the capacity. Councilman Senn: I've got a guy taking pictures out there every time it rains and they're actually coming out every ~me it rains. I've gone over there several rimes now. Every time it rains, it's there flowing. Councilwoman Dockendoff: And you're saying capacity problem is due to. Councilman Senn: Charles says it's according to the sump pump. Councilman Wing: We're diving in that lake. If this is going on, let us know so we can go someplace else. This is not funny. Councilman Mason: I don't think it's funny either. Councilman Wing: Boy, I support you guys in whatever you want to do. Councilman Mason: So I guess I'd like to see some action on this. Mayor Chmiel: And I think the direction we just gave to come back to Council. Don Ashworth: I think you should have a report as to the number of times that they have gone down and what our estimates are as to the actual flow into the lake. I hear what has been st__a_t_ed but I guess 86 Cl~mhassen City Council Meeting - ~ber 13, 1993 I would like to take and hear from our people. From the actual pumping records as to what the real degree of the problem is. Mayor Ciuniel: Before I go much further with the next item, I think we're back to, it's been so long ago, (k) and (u) on Consent. CoHncilmnn ~11'1: ! ~ Triax yet utld~r CollncH Pl'esetll~on8. Mayor Chmiel: Yeah, but I wanted to get bacX to this before I forget it. We were lookiag at tbe transportalion relationship to the ov~ and you re~ved some, an application form whtc~ so spe~ that ~ose are the dollars. Those are the num~ And whe~ it's coming fiaam. So we're looking at a total cost $400,000.00. Federal amoum $280,000.00. 'rne City will put in $120,000.00 which is 30% of it. Out of HRA flmds. Todd Ge~t: And that $120,000.00 would be less if bids came ~mder the $400,~.00. Mayor Chmiel: Yes, that's correct. You clarified that before. Todd Ge~t: 'Tbe first $280,000.00 comes from the Federal. Mayor Chmiel: One of the things that I did look, ~ I was going to ask just one question on that one. That bridge is going to be .handi~ accessible as well? Okay. Then also I think the questions were answered in relatio~hip to the City's Uail plan, to ~ connection to Highway 5 overpass, which was interrelated. But I'd like to get a motion on those two. To continue the Inxr. e~. Councilman W'mg: I'll so move. Resolution ~93-90: Councilmnn Wing moved, Councilman Mason seconded to approve a Resolution in support of the development of the TH $ Pedem'ian Overpass as a cost ,baring project with ISTEA funds per the Consent Agenda. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Councilman Wing moved, Councilmnn Mason seconded to approve the nmen~ to the City's Trail Plan to specify connections to Highway $ overpass per the Consent Agenda. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Mayor Clamlel: Okay, Mark. Triax Cable. Councilman Senn: A while back we, I gave Triax to the Council, I think we directed staff to give Triax an ultimn__,,rn on getting going on servicing the parts of the city that keep deanandtng sendce but don't get service. And here we are, how many months later and still not one of them has service. Mayor Chmiel: Todd, have you had discussions wl~ lhem? 87 Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 Todd Gerhardt: Yes. Mayor Cluniel: I thought I saw something of a schedule that was established and saying when they would be in specific areas. Councilman Senn: That's long since past tm't it Todd? Todd Geflumlt: They haven't been working on any other subdivisions. They've been upgrading their main line to West 78th Street and trying to...following the cat as they're going down the street and splicing the lines back...There's been a lot of...wtth the construction going on. And from what they are telling me, is that they will be installing by the end of this week, is what they told me when I talked to them last week. Now when I talked to them today, he told me they'd be installing again... and I've got to take his word. Mayor Cluniel: Would there be of any help if we, the Council, were to have a letter drafted by staff and we sign it and it'd be in a manner of saying either do it now or forget it. And then look to potentially seeing if there's someone else out there that would much prefer providing us with that kind of service. Councilman Mason: Maybe what we should do, because I believe like Mark has said, that may have already been done. Maybe we should send Tflax a carbon of letters to Paragon and all the other cable companies saying we're interested in seeing what their proposals are to service the city. You know, and maybe that's realistic but you know every time I deal with Triax, even on a personal level, oh yeah. The supervisor will get right back to you. I mean they are some of the most uncommunicative people I've ever dealt with. And the City's running into the same problem fight? Or not7 Councilman Senn: Well, we get the proverbial next week every week, right? I mean that's not an unfair statement is it? Todd Gerhardt: No. That's correct and the person who I talked to throws his hands up because the people above him you know make all the decisions. Mayor Chmtel: And I can appreciate his position. Councilman Mason: Oh I do. Yeah. Councilman Senn: But he asked us for the letter and we gave him the letter before which he was going to take to his superiors and supposedly the commitment at that point back was within x days which lasted many, many weeks ago this was all going to be done. So I mean where's that breaking down? I mean supposedly he had the authorization of the special...from his supervisors to do it. Mayor Chmiel: Maybe what we can do Todd is to make a long distance call to whoever the CEO of Triax is and I would be more than happy to sit on this end indicating Mark's concerns as well as the other people who have contacted us with some of their concerns. 88 City Council Meeting - ~-pto~ber 13, 1~3 Todd Geflutrdt: I can send a ~er w~th T~a~'s ~ a~ ~e Mayor nnd any council member... Mayor Cluniel: Would everybody like to do it? Councilman Senn: I'd like to do Michael's idea. Mayor C~micl: What's that? Councilwoman Dockendorf: Send them a copy. Councilman Senn: Send them a carbon copy of the letter we send out to the other cable companies asking for proposals. Mayor Chmiel: That's a good way of doing it ~ let's hit the fll~ one first srut then if that doesn't work, let's go to that. Councilman Mason: Well yeah but, the wheels of justice turn ever so slowly. ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS: 1991] GOALS UPDATE. Mayor Chm iel: You have about 3 nfinutes. Don Ashworth: It's too late in the eve_nth!. I'd like to wrap those up. In other words, you only have half the reporc I' d like to finish that hopefully this week and get tt out to City CoundL The last issue on that lift statior~ I will also include in there, if you remember, we just authorized a $3!/0,000.00 contract to help fix some of these things and I'd like to know, how does this $350,000.00...back to some of the I and I type of problems. Coundlman Senn: I thought that was the ponding for the storm sewer. Coundiman Mason: No. No. And maybe that will take care of il: Maybe that's the whole deal, I don't know. Councilman ~'u~: Before you depart here on the goals. What are we going to do with this? Mayor Chmiel: He's going to finish it and get back to us. 89 Chanhassen City Council Meeting - September 13, 1993 Don Ashworth: I only have half of it done... Councilman Wing: I'd like to either have a special meeting to go over these or I'd like them early on the agenda so they don't get swept over. Don Ashworth: I'll put it back on the next agenda. Mayor Chmiel: With that, can I have a motion for adjournment? Councilman Senn: Can't we have a Council work session specifically on goals? Don Ashworth: Sure. Councilwoman Dockendorf: I think it's appropriate. Councilman Wing: You do or don't? Councilwoman Dockendorf: I do. And I see it as part of the budget process I guess. Those two are intermingled... Councilman Senn: It'd be nice to do it before we go into the budget process so we know what's going on. Councilman Wing: I would agree. Councilman Senn: So maybe before October 18th. Mayor Chmiel: How about this Saturday? Don Ashworth: I'll put it on the next agenda to poll Council as to a date that you can get the goals set. Councilman Mason moved, Coundlman Wing seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The meeting was adjourned at 11:$5 p.m. Submitted by Don Ashworth City Manager Prepared by Nann Ophelm 9O