CC 2006 11 27
CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL
REGULAR MEETING
NOVEMBER 27, 2006
Mayor Furlong called the meeting to order at 7:05 p.m.. The meeting was opened with the
Pledge to the Flag.
COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT:
Mayor Furlong, Councilwoman Tjornhom, Councilman
Lundquist and Councilman Peterson
STAFF PRESENT:
Todd Gerhardt, Roger Knutson, Laurie Hokkanen, Paul Oehme, and Todd
Hoffman
PUBLIC PRESENT FOR ALL ITEMS:
Janet Paulsen 7305 Laredo Drive
Debbie Lloyd 7302 Laredo Drive
Vicki Ernst 840 Cree Drive
PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: INVITATION TO TREE LIGHTING CEREMONY.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you and good evening to everybody. Welcome for those here this
evening and those watching at home. We're glad that you joined us. Hope everybody had a
good Thanksgiving weekend. At this point I'd like to ask if there are, the council if there are any
modifications or additions to the agenda for this evening. If not we'll proceed with the agenda as
distributed with the packet. Without objection. With that I'd like to start with a public
announcement. Specifically relating to our tree lighting ceremony. As our holiday season
approaches and as we began this last, with the Thanksgiving weekend last week, the City of
Chanhassen, in cooperation with our Chamber of Commerce and local businesses is proud to
announce the 2006 Tree Lighting Ceremony at City Center Park. The event will be held this
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coming Saturday, December 2 from 5:00 to 6:00 p.m.. At this time I'd like to invite all
residents, their families, friends to join my family and me at City Center Park at that time. It will
be a fun time. It will be plenty of activities. Refreshments. Caroling. A special visit from Santa
and some of his helpers as well. There's no registration. The event is free and open to all who
come and it's a fun time. I know our park department does a real good job getting the park ready
for that lighting ceremony and I'd like to see a lot of people there joining us. We'll move now to
our consent agenda.
CONSENT AGENDA:
Mayor Furlong: I have been requested to pull item 1(b) for the purposes of tabling that so
without objection we'll pull 1(b) and table that item. That was related to the least on the old
Village Hall. So other than 1(b), is there any other items that members of the council would like
to discuss separately on the consent agenda? Is there anyone else present in the audience that
would like to discuss any items?
City Council Meeting - November 27, 2006
Councilman Peterson moved, Councilwoman Tjornhom seconded to approve the following
consent agenda items pursuant to the City Manager's recommendations:
a. Approval of Minutes:
-City Council Minutes dated November 8, 2006 (Election Canvass)
-City Council Work Session Minutes dated November 13, 2006
-City Council Verbatim Minutes dated November 13, 2006
Resolution #2006-85:
c. Pinehurst, Project 05-03: Accept Streets & Utilities.
Resolution #2006-86:
d. Water Treatment Plant Project 04-08-05: Reject Quote for
Security with ADT and Accept Quote from Siemens.
e. Award of Bid, Curry Farms Park Ponding Project.
f. Approval of Environmental Excellence Award Nominations.
g. Approval of 2007 Police Contract.
h. Elected Official Travel Approval.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS:
None.
LAW ENFORCEMENT/FIRE DEPARTMENT UPDATE.
Sgt. Ross Gullickson: Good evening. Good evening Mr. Mayor, members of the council. City
staff. Good to see you all again. The sheriff's report and monthly statistics for the month of
October, 2006. We had 130 criminal calls for service last month, consisting of 36 Part I crimes
and 69 Part II crimes. Overall we saw an increase of 20 calls for service, criminal calls for
service from September to October. Those calls were broken down in the following. Part I
crimes, we had 1 aggravated assault that was reported in October which actually was an
attempted assault. Not the actual act. The incident began in Excelsior and through the course of
some investigation and events ended in Chanhassen and a juvenile suspect was arrested. We had
6 burglaries that were reported in October, 5 of which were to local businesses. The remaining
incident was to a private residence. There were also 26 thefts reported in October. Theft reports
have steadily decreased over the past 3 months, albeit slightly. We also had 3 vehicle thefts
reported in October, only 1 of which was an actual theft. The other 2 were civil matters
consisting of an unauthorized use by a family member and 1 vehicle repossession. Part II
offenses increased from September to October from 69 to 94 calls. The biggest contributor to
this was an increase in property damage reports from 27 to 39 reported incidents. Further
research indicated that the majority of these calls were related to teepeeing, egging of property,
mailbox vandalisms and damage to vehicles. Vehicles getting cheese paint, etc. We also saw a
slight increase in fraud and identity theft complaints that in your monthly statistics packet is
classified as theft related calls. The miscellaneous criminal category, which upon further
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City Council Meeting - November 27, 2006
research I learned was a result of multiple traffic stops one night in which several juveniles were
stopped prior to a teepeeing incident, and were cited with, for curfew violations. After that
particular call the next morning I came into my office and there were 4 huge cases of toilet paper
that ultimately ended up at the Carver County Food Shelf as a donation for families in need.
There were 1,135 non-criminal calls for service and grand totals for the month of October, 1,265
calls were handled by deputies here in Chanhassen. 439 traffic stops were initiated in October
and 300 citations were issued city wide in Chan. Finally to update the council and those at home
regarding the community meeting that was held regarding the home invasion that occurred on
Trail End Road. It was a very huge success. Over 110 people attended from various
neighborhoods in Chanhassen and Eden Prairie. We had several questions from those in
attendance and also engaged in lengthy dialogue with citizens after the meeting. We received a
lot of positive feedback and overall it was a big success. I would like to take this opportunity to
thank Westwood Community Church for offering their facility on such a short notice. The Eden
Prairie Police Department for their cooperation in the investigation, and for sending some
delegates to the community meeting to be a resource to the Eden Prairie residents that attended.
I also want to thank Beth Hoiseth, our Crime Prevention Specialist and all the patrol staff, who
are too many to mention, who kept and are keeping a watchful eye on the neighborhood in an
attempt to get them back to a sense of safety and security and normalcy. To update the council
as well, as of yet no arrests have been made in this incident and the investigative staff are
continually following up on leads as they come in. With that, that is the monthly statistic report
for the month of October. I would turn to the council for questions, comments or concerns.
Mayor Furlong: Any questions?
Councilwoman Tjornhom: I had a question just because I think people are watching or thinking
in their mind, at the meeting, which I attended, people were wondering about patrolling
neighborhoods, and especially at night so if you want to go into your system of how you do that
throughout our town.
Sgt. Ross Gullickson: Absolutely. Chanhassen has 12 deputies that are assigned full time to
Chanhassen, and those deputies work a variety of different hours during the day, evenings and
overnight hours. On average in Chanhassen, during the day we have 2 to 3 officers that are
assigned specifically to Chan with a local area car that helps out as well. At night we have an
average of 3 to 4, sometimes 5 officers with the area car that are working. Those officers have
been directed to provide proactive patrol in that neighborhood and have been doing a good job.
We've also coordinated with Eden Prairie as that neighborhood is borders Eden Prairie and they
have been providing officers from their departments as well.
Mayor Furlong: To follow up on that, what about patrolling neighborhoods, other
neighborhoods within the city and throughout the city.
Sgt. Ross Gullickson: Other neighborhoods have had an increase in patrols as well Mr. Mayor,
albeit the majority of our focus has been focused, efforts have been focused in that neighborhood
given the crime that occurred there, but we are addressing other neighborhoods as well. In
addition to that, starting this weekend focus more on the burglary aspect of what's been going on
in Chanhassen. We have a reserve car that's going to be working in Chanhassen over the
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City Council Meeting - November 27, 2006
weekend and some times overnight hours during the week that we can use as extra eyes and ears
out in the neighborhoods as well.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: So will that car then be targeting these areas on this map that shows
the business burglaries?
Sgt. Ross Gullickson: The business burglaries. That is one of their details, yes. Yes. And
they'll be providing patrol of those neighborhoods. Foot patrol. I'm sorry, patrol of those
business districts. Foot patrol of checking on doors and looking to note anything suspicious, and
to be a visual deterrent as well.
Todd Gerhardt: Sergeant, what are some typical crime prevention techniques that residents can
do to make their home safer and if a neighborhood that currently doesn't have a crime,
Neighborhood Watch program, who could they contact to establish such a program?
Sgt. Ross Gullickson: Beth Hoiseth is the Chanhassen Crime Prevention Specialist and she can
be reached at 952-227-1610. She's the resource, a vital resource in providing tips and security
tool for both businesses, residences as far as how to remain alert and vigilant for suspicious
activity, and if I could share one thing, one of the biggest ways to protect oneself and property is
to keep things secure. Doors locked, so on and so forth. Removal of items of value from plain
sight. I want to be very clear, even when you do this, we still have seen and are seeing people
force entry into homes, cars, businesses, so on and so forth. So it is a not save all but it is a
deterrent and it does work. If you keep your property locked up, your homes, your cars or
valuables, it takes the opportunity away from the potential criminal and it does help.
Todd Gerhardt: So when you're out patrolling and you notice a garage door open in a residential
neighborhood, will the officer stop and let the individual homeowner know what to do about
that?
Sgt. Ross Gullickson: Yes. Officers have stopped by private residences as they see obvious
security violations, if you want to call them that, with garage doors open. Garage doors open and
they politely remind the occupant that this is what can happen. You have your vehicle, all of
your valuables in your garage and often times the interior door leading into the residence from
the garage is unlocked. And we've received some positive feedback from citizens who we've
spoken to about that.
Todd Gerhardt: Thank you.
Sgt. Ross Gullickson: Your welcome.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any other questions at this time? Sergeant, thank you.
Sgt. Ross Gullickson: Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Chief Geske with our fire department's here this evening. Good evening Chief.
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City Council Meeting - November 27, 2006
Chief Greg Geske: Good evening council. We've had another slow month, which is good on our
part. Did want to bring up last Tuesday night we had, ended up to be a double fatal accident in
Chanhassen on Highway 5. It was in the news quite a bit. With the nasty weather coming in
later this week, one of the, the 17 year old fatality in that did not have a seat belt on and I just
wanted to bring up, remind everybody to use their seat belts. Not enforcing Sergeant
Gullickson's laws but we're not enforcement but we do see what can happen when you don't wear
a seat and she was ejected from the vehicle and would have been a lot better off come, had she
had a seat belt on so want to take that example I guess and use it to everybody else. Make sure
you wear your seat belts out there. Did get some good news last Friday. Fourth year in a row
we've, the fire department and we had one individual who's been filling out forms the last couple
years and we were awarded an assistance to fire fighter grant in the amount of $173,025.00. It's
a federally funded program and that will be used to replace our existing self contained breathing
apparatus so, to go along with some money that we had for, budgeted for replacement of the
bottles so that we can replace the whole packs. We found about that as posted on their web site
last week so, last Friday so. Again we want to thank one of the fire fighters that went through
the work of applying year after year, the last 4 years to get that and Andrea Wentzlaff did quite a
bit of work the last couple years here following that up so want to thank her for that. We'll have
a release in the paper here about it this week so.
Mayor Furlong: Congratulations.
Todd Gerhardt: I did a great job of keeping my mouth shut on that so I didn't take Greg's
thunder.
Chief Greg Geske: Nice to bring good news here once in a while.
Todd Gerhardt: Yeah. This is just a great asset that the fire department was able to apply for
and get. Roughly there's about $18 million dollars that is distributed throughout Minnesota in
2003 at least to area fire departments for equipment and operations so, I would say the average is
somewhere around $50,000. High end was $200 and some in that year so $173 is a very nice
amount for our fire department and you guys should be congratulated for being tenacious and
sticking with it. I think over the years we didn't receive any money so this is really our first year
that we've hit a home run on it so congratulations.
Chief Greg Geske: In previous years we have made it to the final round. It's given up in
different rounds. It was Round 6 that we were awarded this year. We did previous to that, we
kind of had a good idea that we were going to get a grant because there's a questionnaire that
goes out and asks if we're still interested and different information like that so usually on the
internet forms and stuff, you find out if you get the questionnaire you're pretty much promised
the grant but nothing's for sure so, we were pretty happy to get that. I'd say the last year, last 3
years we've got the Dear John letter so to speak. You know we made it to the last round last year
until it came out so pretty excited about that. And we do have the air packs that we have, we
were going to get a couple more years out of them but they are starting to show their age and you
know it's a vital piece of equipment that we have on our back when we go into a fire so that's a
great opportunity to replace those and get the new advanced stuff that's out there.
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City Council Meeting - November 27, 2006
Todd Gerhardt: Now I believe there's some matching money that we have to come up with.
Chief Greg Geske: Yeah, like I say, we had it in the budget for next year, 2007. An amount that
would go to replace the bottles. We definitely had request the bottles because those are required
to be replaced 15 years by the Department of Transportation. And then we also have some
matching money from our fund raiser that will go towards that so 30% of the whole purchase
will come from the replacement money for the bottles next year in the budget, and the money
from our fund raiser.
Mayor Furlong: Well that's excellent news. Congratulations. That's very well done. Anything
else from you at this point? No more money?
Chief Greg Geske: No.
Mayor Furlong: Any questions for the Chief? Or comments. No? Great, thank you.
LAKESIDE DEVELOPMENT PUBLIC HEARING FOR VACATION OF SANITARY
SEWER EASEMENT AT 125 LAKEVIEW ROAD EAST.
Paul Oehme: Thank you Mayor, City Council members. Again the vacation of the easement is
requested by the Sienna Corporation at 125 Lakeview Drive. Lakeview Road. The new
development is Lakeview development. The easement in question is just off of Lyman
Boulevard. The easement was acquired back in 1979 for the previously, the previous
development by the developer. With new development the easement is no longer needed or
necessary. Staff is in agreement that the easement is no longer needed. The easement here is
shown in pink along the westerly side of the development. And at this time, again it's a 15 foot
easement no longer required. There is no private utilities associated or in this easement and it's
no longer needed for city use. So at this time I would request that the public hearing be opened
on this matter.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any questions for staff? Again to confirm, there's nothing in there
and no future need.
Paul Oehme: That's correct.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. At this time then I'll open the public hearing and invite all
interested parties to come forward and address the council on this matter. Okay, seeing nobody
then we'll close the public hearing. Bring it back to council. Any follow up questions for
council? Any discussion? Is there a motion?
Councilman Lundquist: Motion to approve.
Councilman Peterson: Second.
Mayor Furlong: Made and seconded. Any discussion on the motion?
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City Council Meeting - November 27, 2006
Resolution #2006-87: Councilman Lundquist moved, Councilman Peterson seconded that
the City Council approves a resolution vacating the fifteen (15) foot wide sanitary sewer
easement within 125 Lakeview Road, the legal description of which is attached. All voted
in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0.
KOEHNEN AREA/YOSEMITE AVENUE STREET RECONSTRUCTION PROJECT 07-
01: PUBLIC HEARING TO AUTHORIZE PREPARATION OF PLANS AND
SPECIFICATIONS.
Public Present:
Name Address
Konrad Wurm 1750 Koehnen Circle East
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Shirley & Willard Johnson 1660 West 63 Street
Adele Pint 1641 Koehnen Circle East
Brian & Julie Evers 1799 Koehnen Circle West
Laura Fridgen 6291 Blue Jay Circle
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Jeanne Burke 225 West 77 Street
Doug Swanson 1780 Koehnen Circle
Paul Oehme: Thank you Mayor, City Council members. This project was considered in 2006
for improvements. Unfortunately due to the State, Municipal State Aid rules we were not able to
acquire Yosemite Street as a MSA route at that time for funding purposes. We have acquired the
necessary documentation at this time and staff is requesting that the project be considered in
2007 for street improvements. The streets in the Yosemite/Koehnen area are 35 years old. The
pavement management program that the City indicates that the streets are degradated to the point
where street reconstruction is recommended at this time. Preventive maintenance such as
sealcoat and, are no longer cost effective. The streets have been patched recently but this is only
a temporary fix and it is very labor intensive for street department, the crews to be out there on a
yearly basis to patch these streets to an acceptable level. We do have several issues with
infrastructure in this area as well. The watermain in the Koehnen and Yosemite area has been
documented to have 23 confirmed watermain breaks. The watermain is cast iron and is very
susceptible to watermain breaks and is recommended to be replaced at this time. Also the
sanitary sewer is in need of improvements. In some areas the sewer has become egged or
deflected, and sags have been identified and these areas are recommended for replacement at this
time as well. It is a concern for staff that these areas could, if left unimproved could cause
sanitary sewer back-up's. The only way to really replace or improve these areas is to dig them up
and replace them. Also storm water issues we'd like to address on this project are numerous.
There are several localized drainage areas that we want to improve upon. We want to try to meet
our storm water quality and quantity goals here in the city as well. That being said, staff would,
is recommending that this area be considered for reconstruction in 2007. We do have, I did
request that a representative from Bolton-Menk be here in attendance. He can give you a little
more detail on the project itself. Marcus Thomas, if you'd like to go through your presentation at
this time, I'd appreciate it.
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City Council Meeting - November 27, 2006
Marcus Thomas: Thank you Mayor and council. Is this on? Okay, thank you. Thank you for
allowing Bolton-Menk to assist the City of Chanhassen with this project. We've appreciated
working with the City and appreciate the input from the staff as we've prepared this feasibility
study, as well as from the residents. We've had some informational meetings held, specifically
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on November 8 we had a neighborhood meeting where we were able to get good input from the
neighbors and there are future informational meetings scheduled to be held on this project as
well. There's a lot of information in the report. I'm going to go through it very concisely. If I
leave any questions open, feel free to interrupt me as I go through my presentation. The general
approach to the improvements are illustrated in Figure 1 of our report. Basically we're proposing
street reconstruction throughout the neighborhood. Currently the streets exist as bituminous
pavement streets with no curb and gutter. We are proposing to reconstruct those streets with
concrete curb and gutter, offering additional pavement edge to the pour and drainage
improvements throughout the neighborhood. Throughout the neighborhood all the streets will be
reconstructed to approximate their existing street widths with the exception of Yosemite Avenue
which is proposed to be widened to 32 feet. Again because this is a state aid route, there are
minimum width requirements that are required to be adhered to. To the reconstruction. There are
some retaining walls being constructed within the, proposed to be reconstructed within the
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intersection of Yosemite and 63 based on minor grade changes and road width changes in that
area. We do have the option to eliminate those retaining walls and construct embankments. We
intend to have these conversations with respective property owners to determine what's going to
fit best within that intersection. As Mr. Oehme mentioned, there are significant storm sewer
improvements throughout the neighborhood. Currently there's very minimal storm sewer
existing within the neighborhood. With the curb and gutter we will be constructing catch basins
and drain inlets throughout the neighborhood. New storm sewer throughout the neighborhood.
All of which would ultimately be draining into 3 new storm water ponds which are illustrated
later in the report on Figure 24 but essentially 1 pond proposed to be located on the east side of
Yosemite near the south end. A second pond proposed to be constructed on the south side of
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West 63 Street. And then the third pond at the southeast corner of Koehnen Circle East. Again
as Mr. Oehme mentioned, watermain throughout the project area is proposed to be replaced due
to the numerous breaks, 23 to be exact, documented within the neighborhood. And we are
proposing partial replacement of the sanitary sewer throughout the neighborhood based on a
review of sewer videos identifying problem areas throughout. With that I'll go into a little bit
more detail on the specific roadways within the Koehnen neighborhood, starting with Yosemite.
In the report it's Figures 13 through 15 that I'll be referencing. Okay. Again Yosemite is
proposed to be reconstructed with concrete curb and gutter. The limits of the reconstruction
extend, at the south end near the address of 6481 Yosemite and will continue north to the
northerly city limits. There'll be a new storm sewer constructed along Yosemite. Actually 2
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independent storm sewer systems that are essentially split at the West 63 Street intersection.
There'll be a southerly system that drains south into our new storm water pond on the east side of
Yosemite, and a second system extending from Creek Run Trail to the north where it will
discharge into an existing ditch at the north end of Yosemite. Along Yosemite we are proposing
the complete replacement of the existing watermain which exists along the east side of the
roadway. We're also proposing that most of the sanitary sewer along Yosemite is replaced to
address deficiencies that we found in the pipe during the televising. Specifically on this segment
we saw a lot of indentations and egging or squashing of the pipe. So that's the street
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City Council Meeting - November 27, 2006
reconstruction. The watermain reconstruction and sanitary sewer reconstruction and storm sewer
for Yosemite.
Councilman Lundquist: How wide is that street right now? You're going to make it 32. How
wide is it now?
Marcus Thomas: The existing street width varies because of the lack of curb and gutter but it
ranges, it approximates about 28 feet existing.
Councilman Lundquist: And 32 is back of the curb to back of the curb? Or pavement?
Marcus Thomas: That's face of curb to face of curb. So the actual bituminous surface in this
case would be 29 feet from edge of gutter to edge of gutter.
Mayor Furlong: That's all going to be within the existing right-of-way though isn't it?
Marcus Thomas: Exactly. Exactly, yeah. We're keeping the same alignment so more or less
we're trying to share that additional width on both sides of the roadway. Keeping it centered
within the right-of-way.
Todd Gerhardt: Marcus, could you explain what egging is and scalding did you say or?
Marcus Thomas: There were some indentations.
Todd Gerhardt: Explain how that happens and.
Marcus Thomas: Sure. The overall installation procedures for plastic sanitary sewer pipe have
improved dramatically over the decade. This original construction probably wasn't constructed
to the same standards that we're building plastic pipes today. Resulting in poor back fill
procedures that can cause plastic pipes to squash. Basically go from a rounded shape to an egg
shape from ground surcharges. The indentations that we see again these days we're back filling
the pipe zone with sand. A finer material. Not always done back in the past. A lot more courser
material could have been used causing those indentations and problems that we see in the plastic
pipe so typically a plastic pipe is a very good construction material that we use for sanitary
sewer. However like I said, over the decades the installation and constructions procedures have
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improved dramatically. Any other questions on Yosemite? I was just going to discuss West 63
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if there's no other comments or questions on Yosemite. West 63 improvements are illustrated
in the feasibility report on Figure 16 and 17. Again reconstructing the roadway here. Limits
going from Cardinal Avenue at it's west end to Yosemite at it's east end. There will be storm
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sewer installed along this segment of West 63 as well. Two different storm sewers. A westerly
storm sewer system that extends between Cardinal and Blue Jay…capture storm water runoff
and route it into the Yosemite, the southerly Yosemite Avenue storm sewer system that again
outlets into that storm water pond to the south. We are proposing complete replacement of the
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watermain again along West 63 Street. Along it's entire length. Along West 63 however
there are no proposed sanitary sewer improvements. We didn't see any real problems with
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sanitary sewer along that corridor. Any questions on West 63? Okay.
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City Council Meeting - November 27, 2006
Mayor Furlong: I guess the one question here, didn't ask it on Yosemite, has anything changed
from when we looked at this 10-11 months back?
Marcus Thomas: No. No, it's.
Mayor Furlong: If there are changes, if you could point those out. Otherwise.
Marcus Thomas: Absolutely. Absolutely.
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Mayor Furlong: On Yosemite and on West 63 there have been no changes to the proposed
design or project scope.
Marcus Thomas: That's correct. That's correct, yeah. Yeah, essentially the project scope as we
presented it about a year ago is pretty much the same throughout the project area. I guess really
no changes to speak of to be honest with you throughout.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thanks.
Marcus Thomas: Audubon Circle. Again reconstruction. Replacing the watermain. Installation
of new storm sewer that will drain into the pond at the north end of Audubon. Or at the south
end of East Koehnen Circle. Here we did deviate from the City's standard cul-de-sac
dimensions. Basically in response to resident concerns of encroachments into their front yards
beyond the city's right-of-way. So we are essentially matching the existing shape of the cul-de-
sac there. Moving onto Blue Jay Circle. Blue Jay Circle, being reconstructed again along it's
similar alignment but again deviating from the standard 45 foot radius cul-de-sac to comply with
the requests of the residents not to overly encroach onto their properties or cross city right-of-
way to maintain a cul-de-sac bubble so we're essentially matching the existing dimensions of the
cul-de-sac again on Blue Jay Circle. There will be a storm sewer constructed at the intersection
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of Blue Jay and West 63 that will drain into the West 63 system. We are proposing to replace
the watermain along the east side of Blue Jay Circle, as well as the entire sanitary sewer along
Blue Jay Circle. Cardinal Avenue. Illustrated on Figure 20 of the report. Again reconstructing
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the roadway along it's existing alignment between West 63 Street to the northerly city limits.
There will be new storm sewer constructed as a part of the improvements going south from
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Koehnen Circle West, or Koehnen Circle East. I'm sorry. Flowing into the West 63 Street
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system that flows into the proposed pond on the south side of West 63 Street. This storm sewer
is going to be designed to capture the most frequent storms up to a 10 year event. For larger
events that inundate the system, it will continue to over top and drain through an existing swale
that flows westerly from Cardinal Avenue as it does today. Right now all of the rain events are
routed down that swale as a part of these improvements again the more frequent storms will be
captured in the storm sewer and drained away. Complete replacement of the watermain is
proposed along the east side of Cardinal. And a single segment of sanitary sewer just south of
Koehnen Circle West is proposed to be replaced to address some significant sagging in that
sanitary sewer line. Koehnen Circle East, illustrated in Figures 21 and 22 of the report. Again
reconstructing that roadway with new concrete curb and gutter along it's existing alignment. At
the east end again a smaller cul-de-sac bubble, similar to what's out there today is being proposed
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City Council Meeting - November 27, 2006
to minimize impacts to residents. There is new storm sewer proposed to be constructed flowing
from the Deer Ridge intersection flowing east. Ultimately discharging into the proposed pond on
the south side of Koehnen Circle East. We are, we've gotten some input from the property owner
at 1641. Adele is here this evening. That has expressed some concerns with the drainage that
currently exist across her front yard. She's got an existing drainage swale that captures water and
routes it across her property. As a part of these storm sewer improvements we're able to pick up
a lot of that water before it makes it's way to that existing swale. It appears that there might be
some additional drainage coming from the private property to the west, but we are going to look
at seeing if we can't minimize or even eliminate the water that's going into that swale and
potentially eliminate that swale which is the property owner's desire. We'll be looking into that a
little bit more. The watermain on this, along this corridor again is proposed to be reconstructed
in it's entirety. And then along Koehnen Circle East, no proposed sanitary sewer improvements.
Finally, Koehnen Circle West. Illustrated in Figure 23. Reconstructing this roadway with new
curb and gutter. Again making a smaller cul-de-sac for the benefit of the abutting property
owners. There will be a new storm sewer system that will drain the water from Koehnen Circle
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West into the Cardinal Avenue system again which drains into the West 63 system. Watermain
along this corridor will be replaced in it's entirety, and the westerly segment of sanitary sewer is
proposed to be reconstructed due to significant deflections that we saw in that pipe. That
concludes the scope of the proposed improvements. I was going to talk a little bit about cost and
assessments but wanted to pause for any additional questions that the council may have on the
leveled improvements.
Mayor Furlong: Any questions on the scope of improvements?
Councilman Lundquist: How far along Paul did we get when we looked at this 10 months ago?
Where did we pull the plug?
Paul Oehme: Right after we held the public hearing last year. We basically, well we were
authorized preparation of the plans and specs which we have 99% of them done now. It's at that
point we're ready to submit the plans for state aid. Trying to get that designation on Yosemite.
That's where it dropped.
Councilman Lundquist: Okay. So it shouldn't take us long in the process much to do at this
time?
Paul Oehme: No. I mean we're ready to submit to state aid for their final plan review, which is
about a month timeframe and we are anticipating, if we were to move forward with this project,
to let the project earlier than we had anticipated last year.
Todd Gerhardt: We did get the designation though on Yosemite.
Paul Oehme: Yeah, the designation has been acquired so that hurdle is over.
Mayor Furlong: Any other questions on the scope of the project? Okay. Mr. Thomas, you want
to talk about others?
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City Council Meeting - November 27, 2006
Marcus Thomas: Certainly. Just want to quickly cover costs and assessments and schedule.
Overall project costs for the street improvements, watermain, sanitary sewer and storm sewer
improvements total, are estimated at this point at $3,083,730. Approximately breakdown of that
cost is about $1.7 million dollars in street improvements. About $600,000 in watermain
improvements. Approximately $200,000 in sanitary sewer improvements and approximately
$600,000 in storm sewer improvements. Regarding assessments, it's the City's practice to assess
40% of the assessable street costs to benefiting properties. The cost for the watermain, sanitary
sewer and storm sewer are paid for 100% by their respective utility funds. With those assessable
street costs being applied to the assessable properties, the estimated assessment for each
property is estimated at $7,100 per property.
Paul Oehme: Little clarification too. Under the street improvement funding category, the City is
proposing to pick up the over sizing of the roadway costs for Yosemite, so basically the property
owners that are on Yosemite would be assessed at the equivalency of basically their same
roadway width at this time. We are increasing the pavement section on Yosemite as well and the
city staff is proposing to pay for that extra cost and that's the allocation of the, under the
Municipal State Aid funding that would cover those costs.
Mayor Furlong: So any over sizing's going to be picked up 100% by the City under your
proposal. No assessment to the property owners.
Paul Oehme: That's correct.
Mayor Furlong: The proposal is to assess them 40% of basically reconstruction of the existing
width.
Paul Oehme: Existing roadway width, correct.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, thank you. Anything change in these numbers as we're sitting here 10-
11 months later? And the assessment I think is at, was that the same as what was proposed
earlier this year?
Paul Oehme: Yeah. I'm sorry, the assessment is, I think is the same as what we had proposed
last year. There was a contingency amount that we had in under last year's project. That
contingency more or less is gone away because of inflationary costs associated with construction
and cost of construction materials now so there is a little bit, it is a little bit finer, how should I
say it? You know.
Todd Gerhardt: No fluff.
Paul Oehme: No fluff in the cost anymore so that's what we're proposing.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Any other questions for Mr. Thomas or staff? On the funding or the
project scope.
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City Council Meeting - November 27, 2006
Councilman Lundquist: Paul or Marcus, any opportunity that we have for lowering the cost or
things that would drive it lower?
Marcus Thomas: Our estimate right now, we believe we are conservative. We'll see how the
bids come in. One thing we are planning on doing to increase competition for the storm sewer is
to bid an HDP pipe alternative to concrete pipe so we basically will have competing interests.
Competing suppliers on the storm sewer that will hopefully bring the cost down on that. It
typically does. Typically the concrete pipe is more expensive until they get the plastic guys in
there too so. I would say that's probably going to be one of our biggest advances towards
keeping the costs as low as possible. There's not much for amenities if you will on this project.
This is a straight forward infrastructure improvement project and we're essentially covering the
essential needs of the infrastructure. So as far as eliminating portions of the work to bring down
the cost, not a whole lot of opportunities to do things like that.
Todd Gerhardt: Marcus, how about the timing of the bidding of this? Do you think that's a key
opportunity for this project? Is April too far? Or is that a key time that, have contractors already
got work lined up prior to then or is that kind of the key time for developers or contractors to
look for work?
Marcus Thomas: Sure. Right now Chanhassen is well positioned to bid early in 2007. As a
matter of fact the schedule reflects a proposed bid opening in February, which is the earliest bid
opening I've got on my book for 2007, so we are getting a good jump primarily because we've
had the opportunity to advance on the plans, as Mr. Oehme suggested, so we should be able to
have our project out there, one of the first out therefore bidding. When the contractor's are their
hungriest and are going to give us their best prices so the timing is good.
Mayor Furlong: Any other questions at this point? If not, anything else at this point? Mr.
Oehme or Mr. Thomas.
Paul Oehme: There was one email that staff received from a property owner that I think we
handed out earlier this evening for comment.
Mayor Furlong: We'll take that as part of the public hearing comments.
Paul Oehme: Absolutely.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Will you be sure that that gets into the record as well?
Paul Oehme: Yes.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. At this time I would open up the public hearing and invite
interested parties to come forward and address the council on their opinions on the project or to
have questions answered by the staff or others so if you'd like to address the council, participate
in the public hearing, please come forward at this time. State your name and address for the
record and we'd be happy to listen to you.
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City Council Meeting - November 27, 2006
Adele Pint: I'm Adele Pint, 1641 Koehnen Circle East and just a couple follow up questions. On
the Koehnen Circle East project, were the plans changed in any way between last year and this
year?
Paul Oehme: No.
Adele Pint: Okay, because the reason I ask that is, last year I asked the question about the ditch
in front of my house and was told that that would be leveled. And I guess that's when I, now I'm
understanding that that's not going to be, or I realize you're going to review that again but that
made me wonder if the plans had changed as to how the underground piping was going to run
into the holding pond.
Marcus Thomas: There's been no proposed changes to the storm sewer configuration on
Koehnen Circle East since we last presented this 10-11 months ago. What we have now, to our
benefit, again are some construction plans that are further along today and give us greater detail
and exactly what's going to happen than we did 10 or 11 months ago so if we did speak about
eliminating the ditch last year, it was based on information that we had at that time. We can say
now that that plan's drawn together, that don't actually go into that private property on your yard
to do that. But we are going to look at the potential.
Adele Pint: I would appreciate that. Another question would be as far as the holding pond is
concerned, will you be replacing trees that you'll be taking down?
Marcus Thomas: Kind of a small picture of that pond on Figure 26 of the report but we are
proposing to remove, it looks like 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 trees that are centered within that pond. At this
time there's no landscaping proposed as a part of the improvements beyond turf restoration so
there are some that are proposed to be removed but at this time none to be replaced.
Adele Pint: I would appreciate it if you could consider that. Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Appreciate those questions and comments. Anybody else that
would like to address the council or have questions answered?
Konrad Wurm: Konrad Wurm, 1750 Koehnen East. Does the project still have the V style curb
throughout or has that been changed?
Marcus Thomas: Yeah, we're proposing the traditional 6 inch high concrete curb with the 18
inch wide gutter.
Konrad Wurm: And there are no sidewalks?
Marcus Thomas: There are no sidewalks proposed in the project.
Konrad Wurm: Most of the surrounding neighborhoods have the surmountable V curb. Back in
Tom's old neighborhood there, and with the 28 foot streets and no sidewalks, it often becomes
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City Council Meeting - November 27, 2006
necessary for bicycles and pedestrians to get off the roadway quickly and I guess I'd like you to
consider a V style.
Mayor Furlong: I think I understand what you're saying Mr. Wurm. Help me understand what's
being proposed.
Marcus Thomas: Again the curb style was kind of quickly draw a sketch of it but it's in cross
section. It's basically that style of curb where you've got your street cross…flowing to the gutter
and then it comes up 6 inches here to the boulevard and matches that. So it's a traditional 6 inch
high curb with an 18 inch wide gutter there.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. And then there would be curb cuts for driveways.
Marcus Thomas: Exactly.
Konrad Wurm: I guess my main thing was, it's very hard for bicycles to get off the roadway.
Mayor Furlong: What's the other style is more of a just a steady slant, correct?
Paul Oehme: Steady slant, right. And that's typically put in under new development situations.
Mayor Furlong: Why, where's the difference or how would that, what would be the advantages
or disadvantages to putting that into this area?
Paul Oehme: Well.
Mayor Furlong: Because right now there's just kind of rolled bituminous curbs in some places
right?
Paul Oehme: Yeah we find that a majority of property owners like the raised style that we're
proposing. The B6-18 curb and gutter. With the surmountable curb and gutter, especially with
smaller vehicles, more compact vehicles, you can, and depending upon your, the grade of your
driveway, you can bottom out on your, with your vehicle because of the steep incline on those
surmountable curb type installations. We like the B6-18 curb and gutter, our snowplow drivers
can ride right up against that, the raised curb and follow the plows along. It's a little bit harder to
follow the plow along the surmountable and we have in the past, and damaged lawns because
we've gotten too far out into the properties. And thirdly drainage. It's a better drainage system.
It's a higher raised curb. It channels the water a little bit better as well. So for those points, it's
what we are proposing to install B6-18 curb.
Councilman Lundquist: Difference in costs?
Paul Oehme: They're virtually the same cost.
Councilman Lundquist: Does the snowplow banging against the steep one hurt it?
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City Council Meeting - November 27, 2006
Paul Oehme: No. We ride it, unless you hit it head on typically you're not going to damage it.
Councilman Lundquist: It eats up the snowplow brake instead of curb.
Paul Oehme: Typically. Yeah, you can feel it a lot better so. A lot easier.
Konrad Wurm: The snow plow won't damage it unless the sod is a little high, isn't that true? If
the sod is kept down, the blade's at an angle.
Paul Oehme: Yeah, typically the, if the sod is kept down, typically we have the sod about an
inch higher I think than the curb itself, just for maintenance purposes. So if the snowplow gets
above the top of the surmountable curb, it will damage the sod.
Mayor Furlong: Is there anybody else that would, I'd invite you to come forward now.
Laura Fridgen: Hi.
Mayor Furlong: Good evening.
Laura Fridgen: Laura Fridgen, 6291 Blue Jay Circle and I want to clarify something. Or maybe
I need clarification. You mentioned that the sanitary sewer would be running along the road,
correct?
Marcus Thomas: Yeah, we are proposing to replace the sanitary sewer along Blue Jay Circle.
Laura Fridgen: Okay, so this is my property here…and my sanitary sewer goes out and over this
way, so how's that going to affect me?
Marcus Thomas: It won't affect you. The sewer's going to be reconstructed but your service will
be reconnected to the new pipe. Yeah right now you're saying you come out…
Laura Fridgen: It butts up to the back of…and runs along back here.
Marcus Thomas: Sure, sure. Yeah, no impacts to your service or the way it operates or anything
like that. It will just simply be reconstructed.
Councilman Lundquist: You're replacing the trunk along the road, not any, he won't touch
anything on your property. So the line that's on your property stays there. Just the stuff along.
Laura Fridgen: I understand that. It's just that we just, we did just replace all of our sanitary
sewer about 5 years ago and it's, it was a substantial cost to us and now it's going to be re-routed
across the street in the opposite direction.
Marcus Thomas: No. We're, if you're connected right here right now.
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City Council Meeting - November 27, 2006
Laura Fridgen: No, we're not. We are connected, it's kind of hard to tell. This is 6291 right
here. And this is my neighbor. So we came out the back and they went over and somewhere
along this line here. So it comes out, angles over to the sanitary sewer line over there.
Marcus Thomas: Okay. Well let me be clear. Anything that's happening on the private property
is not going to be touched as a part of this project. What will be reconstructed as a part of this
project again is the main trunk line running down the center of the street and anything that's
connected to it right now will simply be reconnected right at the same spot without any
disturbance of that line beyond the center of the street. So there'll be absolutely no change to any
of the alignments of the service pipes.
Laura Fridgen: So what happens to this connection that we hooked up to somewhere along this
line? What happens to that? Is that just vacated or is it?
Marcus Thomas: No. No, if there's a connection. I think I see what you're talking about right
here. There is a line that comes through the private properties. It looks like it connects right into
that manhole right there.
Laura Fridgen: So that, this line will continue to be functional?
Marcus Thomas: Exactly. Exactly.
Laura Fridgen: Okay. Well, I expressed my concerns and my disappointment with this project
because I don't see any direct benefits to my property with this. Curbs, gutters. That that is
going to increase the property value on my house. And it didn't matter last time so I'm assuming
that this is not going to matter either. It sounds to me like this was delayed because of the
funding from the State on Yosemite. Is that correct?
Paul Oehme: That's correct.
Laura Fridgen: Okay. Well then that's really all I had to say. Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you.
Doug Swanson: Doug Swanson, 1780 Koehnen Circle. In all your plans and everything else,
when we were talking about the curb and gutter, which the Pheasant Hill Addition has the
swaling type of, instead of that 6 inch tall curb. I mean I grew up in Minneapolis. I never really
liked the 6 inch curb and I really didn't move out here to, it looks like Edina again. Is there any
way that that thing can be changed because at Pheasant Hill, how are you going to tie up to the
rd
Pheasant Hill Addition when you hit 63?
rd
Marcus Thomas: Are you talking, is this the connection right here? On West 63.
Doug Swanson: Yes.
Marcus Thomas: Just west of Cardinal. Yeah, it would simply be just a taper transition.
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City Council Meeting - November 27, 2006
Doug Swanson: Won't that look kind of funny? Wouldn't you be better off extending what is
already there? Aesthetics, I mean.
Marcus Thomas: I guess, aesthetics, that's typically the way most transitions are done. It's
usually over about 10 feet so it's pretty slight to the eye but.
Doug Swanson: That's goofy, but whatever. I'm not an engineer but it would be, make more
sense to actually continue on with an area that's got it the same way. The other thing is, you
talked about the 6 inch tall but have you changed anything as far as elevation? Are you dropping
the actual top of the road 6 inches too so that people don't end up with water laying in their
driveways and sidewalks. Not sidewalks but walkways and perimeter of their property.
Marcus Thomas: Well that's an important consideration and within the entire neighborhood we
want to minimize impacts to driveways…
Doug Swanson: Right. The whole hill on my side actually slides all the way down to Koehnen
Circle West and Cardinal and then goes down, around the opposite side and goes through that
back side that you're talking about down into the valley over in Galpin Lake Road. Where that
big swamp is down there. That big valley behind the other houses on the opposite side of
Koehnen Circle. I've watched it where we've had 3 to 4 inch rain and it just rushes and goes
around behind the…house.
Marcus Thomas: You're talking about the runoff that comes off of Cardinal?
Doug Swanson: Cardinal and Koehnen West and circles around the houses and goes behind
there.
Marcus Thomas: Right.
Doug Swanson: And that's always had standing water there.
Marcus Thomas: And that actually should be improved as a part of this project because again
the new storm sewer's proposed to catch those more frequent storm events…
Doug Swanson: Will they change anything as far as the alignment? As Cardinal moves into
Shorewood.
Marcus Thomas: No, all the roadways are proposed to be constructed along their same lines.
Doug Swanson: Thank you.
(There was a tape change during discussion of the comparison between V style and surmountable
curbs.)
Paul Oehme: …to the casting which allows for more intake during higher rain events, so there's.
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City Council Meeting - November 27, 2006
Mayor Furlong: So once more for the non-engineers. You've got the storm drain where the
storm water runs into coming down the curb. You're saying the opening is bigger with the 6 inch
curb, the more traditional curb than it is with the surmountable.
Paul Oehme: Correct. There's more capacity in the B6-18 versus the surmountable.
Mayor Furlong: So more capacity, what does that mean in terms of major storm event? What
happens?
Paul Oehme: The water can dissipate faster. It would be captured in those structures a lot more
readily and now flowing down the road and getting basically into the pipes more than flowing
past the curb or past the castings. And also those raised B6-18 castings allow, if there's twigs or
branches or leaves, allows those, that type of material to get into the system and clean itself out a
lot more readily than some of those castings that we're talking about with the surmountable curb.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Did you have something else you wanted to add? If you could come up
to the microphone so we get it on.
Konrad Wurm: I guess as, the difference in styles, if there's that much of a difference, why is a
new housing or new additions allowed to put that style of curb in if it's that critical?
Paul Oehme: Again it's not critical but it does allow for better water quantity intakes at those
areas. We put the surmountable curbs in under development conditions because the developers
don't always know exactly where those driveways are going to be installed. So if you put in a
B6-18 curb, you might have to rip out your curb and gutter to relocate that driveway. Under this,
under a reconstruction type of situations, we know exactly where these driveways are so it's
easier to install that.
Konrad Wurm: What do we do when the lot has not been developed then? If you put the 6 inch
curb in, what do you do when the lot has not been developed?
Paul Oehme: Oh, let's say a lot, a vacant lot.
Mayor Furlong: A vacant lot in this neighborhood you're saying?
Paul Oehme: Right. If there's a vacant lot, if we know there's, we would like to try to identify
where that driveway is. If we don't know, if we can't identify where that driveway is we would
still put the B6-18 curb in and let the developer or the property owner put in the curb cut in the
future to, the location that he would prefer to locate it at.
Mayor Furlong: So the property owner, if there's a vacant lot, if the property owner wants the
curb cut in a particular spot, that's where you'd place it. Otherwise you just run it along.
Paul Oehme: Correct.
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City Council Meeting - November 27, 2006
Mayor Furlong: Without a curb cut.
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, if I may. I think the question is too that if the developer comes in after
the fact and there's B6 out there, he's going to have to cut out the existing B6 and put back B6
curb, and flare the driveway to match up with the B6.
Konrad Wurm: Yeah, you're talking about a reconstruction. If you put the other curb in there,
they can almost put it anywhere.
Todd Gerhardt: Correct.
Konrad Wurm: So we'd have to add more cost to the lots that would be future development.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Konrad Wurm: Then in regard to the castings and the, on the V style that's open in the back, I
believe they also make castings on the V style that come up the incline, don't they?
Paul Oehme: I'm not aware of any. Are you Marcus?
Marcus Thomas: Not with an open grade like that. They do indeed go up the curb but they don't
have that high capacity box opening in it. Basically the B6 curb is going to carry more water
more quickly to grates that can take more water more quickly. So you're going to have more
capacity in your curb. You're going to have more capacity in your grates than you would with
the V style curb.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Anyone else that would like to address the council on this
matter?
th
Jeanne Burke: Hi. My name is Jeanne Burke and I live at 225 West 77 Street so I'm not in this
development and I have a fresh new outlook on this whole idea. First of all my question is
Yosemite Road. Is this the same road I'm thinking of that doesn't really go anywhere? It turns
off of Lake Lucy Road and just, just you know, it doesn't really tie into too much. Why are we
expanding that road? Is there a lot of traffic on there? Every time I've been on that road I've
been kind of like the solo driver. I've lived here for 22 years and haven't ever thought of that as a
street that needs our attention. What classification is it under that it needs to be widened to 32
feet?
Marcus Thomas: It's a local roadway. Classified as local roadway, however it's on the
municipal state aid system, which has minimum geometric standard requirements to be
reconstructed at 32 feet wide. So because it is a MSA route, you need to comply with the MSA
design standards which is 32 feet wide.
Jeanne Burke: But when it was built it didn't comply with those standards?
Marcus Thomas: It was not on the MSA system at that time.
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City Council Meeting - November 27, 2006
Jeanne Burke: Okay. How does it get on the MSA system? Was it requested to be put on it?
Marcus Thomas: Yes.
Jeanne Burke: Because of this project?
Marcus Thomas: I guess I'd have to defer to the City Engineer but the City's allowed so many
miles of roadway on their system and they're able to choose at their discretion what routes go on
that system.
Jeanne Burke: Well, it's just my personal opinion that if this was a road in Chanhassen that
actually you know was connecting streets and was used to get places, it's basically kind of a dead
end road. It dead ends at Lake Lucy and it dead ends at Powers Boulevard, right? It just runs
straight through there. That's little segment of road. I think it's kind of an over kill to be putting
curbs and all, widening this particular street when it doesn't seem to be a network that we really
you know, I mean there's not a huge, it can't be developed anymore back there. So where is the
traffic coming from?
Mayor Furlong: Well, I'll refer those question to the City Engineer in terms of where it starts.
Where it terminates and why we're doing it and the designation of the MSA.
rd
Paul Oehme: Sure. Yosemite does take more trips than 63 Street or Koehnen Circle or…
Jeanne Burke: I know, right.
Paul Oehme: So it does meet the criteria for MSA route and thus the State has approved it as a
MSA route. The City of Shorewood also, in conjunction with the City, both requested that this
segment of roadway be designated as a MSA roadway. Apple Road in Shorewood does connect
to Powers Boulevard so.
Jeanne Burke: Well have they done a study on the, you know like that amount of traffic versus
what runs on Powers Boulevard? How does that compare to Powers Boulevard?
Paul Oehme: Yeah, Powers Boulevard is a minor arterial collector. I mean that's a different
category. That's a county road. This is a local road. This takes local traffic to…
Jeanne Burke: Well right but I'm saying have they done a count? I mean about the traffic. Tell
me how many cars are on that road on a particular day.
Paul Oehme: Well I don't have that off the top of my head.
Jeanne Burke: Well we should have it if we're going to spend this kind of money.
Councilman Lundquist: If we rebuilt, reconstructed Yosemite at 28 feet wide without MSA
dollars, what does that do to the average assessment value? My understanding is we're taking
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City Council Meeting - November 27, 2006
State aid money and putting it into the pool to reconstruct this road and that thereby benefits all
of the properties because it lowers the overall contribution of the assessments to the total project
as a whole. So by not upgrading that to a MSA road, and required geometric standards, all of the
residents are going to pay more for the entire project to reconstruct that road at the same amount
of width that it is now. I mean your points are valid that we need to spend our money wisely but
by putting this, getting this on the MSA I believe that it lowers the overall.
Mayor Furlong: Maybe not the assessments. I don't know if Paul to answer your question,
maybe not the assessment portion because the assessments are just for the existing width but it
lowers the overall cost to all the taxpayers in the city.
Paul Oehme: That's correct.
Mayor Furlong: And explain again. We got into this before but it's a public hearing. MSA
dollars, I mean we're using acronyms here, which you do always in government speak. It's
Municipal.
Paul Oehme: Municipal State Aid, yep.
Mayor Furlong: It's money that's generated when all of us fill up our gas tanks. It's gas tax
money that comes through the State and back to the cities for purposes of reconstructing and
building roads.
Paul Oehme: Right.
Mayor Furlong: So I mean, I think the question is who requested it. The City requested it and
the reason was, this is money that all of us pay in gas taxes that's available to the City to
reconstruct roads.
Jeanne Burke: Well I understand that. I guess my question was, why reconstruct a road you
know and put all this into a road that is of minor significance like Yosemite? But now you're
saying it's because the money, we can get money for that road.
Mayor Furlong: Well, the reason, and Paul maybe reiterate, at the beginning of his presentation
he talked about all the variety of reasons why this road and this entire area was being selected for
this project. It's not just, it's not because we have money and we've got to spend money. That is
not the reason so, and I didn't hear you say that but some could infer that.
Jeanne Burke: Yeah, okay.
Mayor Furlong: Why are we pick these roads and why are we doing this area?
Paul Oehme: Again I'm real briefly. The City does have a pavement management program. We
grade our city streets. These streets have been, are over 35 years old now. They are in need of
improvements. We don't, we can't do a simple sealcoat anymore to maintain these roads. We
are out there on an annual basis patching the potholes. Very time consuming. Very costly. It's
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City Council Meeting - November 27, 2006
not very productive. We do have underlying infrastructure deficiencies out here. The watermain.
We've identified 23 watermain breaks out in this area. We want to replace that watermain
because of the service issue to the property owners. The sanitary sewer even on Yosemite is
egging and we are concerned about future maintenance of that. We can't televise in those lines
easily anymore. In the future we anticipate it's going to be harder and harder to maintain, if not
impossible. So for all those reasons we have proposed this area to be reconstructed. Now the
funding is another matter. We're trying to be, do our due diligence here and try to come up with
a cost effective way to pay for this roadway. One way is to use MSA funds. We have worked
with Shorewood on this issue and they are in agreement. You know in the future Apple Road
potentially will be upgraded as well in the City of Shorewood, they can use MSA funds at that
time. Yosemite again is 32 feet wide that we're proposing. Our city standard roadway width is
31 feet so we are more or less maintaining our current standard roadway width out in this area so
for all those reasons, you know we're trying to, we're trying to use our money cost effectively
and try to lower basically the assessment amounts and pay for this project with all available
resources.
Jeanne Burke: Okay, thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Anyone else? No one else wants to speak at the public hearing? Seeing none,
is there a motion to close the public hearing.
Councilman Lundquist: Motion to close the public hearing.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Is there a second?
Councilman Peterson: Second.
Councilman Lundquist moved, Councilman Peterson seconded to close the public hearing.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0. The public
hearing was closed.
Mayor Furlong: Let's bring it back to council now for follow up questions. Any additional
questions?
Councilman Lundquist: I would recommend that we get a bid alternative for the, yeah the V
curb. Surmountable curb. Especially as long as we're, have minimal effort to do that I think so
let's figure that when it comes in and see whether there's any cost difference then go from there.
Mayor Furlong: Other comments or discussion? And my thought is on the curb, it seems to be
an aesthetic issue and I don't recall this being brought up a few months ago now when we talked
about this but a few people have. It sounds to me like there are advantages to the B6 curb. The
traditional curb from a storm water management, and I remember the storm water in this area
was a big issue and so we've had, perhaps we're coming, last time we talked about this we were a
couple months after the Labor Day 100 year storm and the October 100 year storm of 2005 and
so maybe that wasn't the issue but I think we need to remember that you know we're improving
storm water management in this area and bettering, help in the next 100 year storm, whenever
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City Council Meeting - November 27, 2006
that one comes. I think that's something to consider. Let's get the bid alternative. I don't think
that will be costly and then I guess the question is, let's consider the pros and cons or the benefits
of each and evaluate those and maybe there'll be time to get a little more input as well as
information to the residents between now and when those bids open in February that we can take
a look at that and get some more feedback and make some sense.
Councilman Lundquist: It's going to be a plug number for the contractor anyway, whether he
puts in a B6 or a surmountable so…
Mayor Furlong: That will give us the option I would think and would give us time to address
some of these concerns and make an informed, objective decision.
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, the only point I think Paul brought up earlier was that we get numerous
complaints from people on surmountable curbs so you may want to talk to other friends, relatives
that may have the surmountable curb. As you go through there, your car will bottom out
depending on the grade of your driveway and things like that because when you go up, you've
got to go up and down when you go through that so we get constantly calls to pull out the
surmountable and blend in the B6 in certain neighborhoods so just wanted to make that
statement.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Thank you. Any other discussions? Discussion items on this project.
Councilman Peterson: I think we've brought up the issues before about the MSA dollars so I
think, not…we're being proactive on the sewer and water issue, which I think is certainly an
issue and if the pavement management system says this is a road that needs to be fixed, certainly
we've trusted that before so I have no reason not to trust it today so. Add those two things
together, it's pretty clear cut that we should move ahead.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Well I've debated most the evening…we did have these discussions
earlier…why we were widening the roads and doing the expand, yet we're not passing all the
assessments onto the citizens for widening the road. They're still getting the value of getting
money from the State. I think that was addressed months ago and assessments I think are like
the next…taxes. No one likes them and they all try to avoid them, yet they're inevitable and so I
also think that we should move on with this project and continue…
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Councilman Lundquist, anything else? Okay. Yeah, I would concur. I
think that this was a good project before. We had hoped to get it done this last summer. For
reasons beyond our control we weren't able to. I think we may, while some of the cost estimates
have gone up and that squeezed the contingency, I think we may have been surprised if we tried
to do projects this summer. I think we got, saw some price increases beyond everyone's
expectation with regard to bituminous and other material costs. Because of petroleum prices so
we may have benefited from that, just with the timing of it as well. But it made sense before, for
all the reasons considered I believe it still makes sense now and I think we should indeed go
forward with it. So at this point I would ask, is there a motion to authorize preparation of plans
and specifications for City Project 07-01.
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City Council Meeting - November 27, 2006
Councilman Peterson: So moved.
Mayor Furlong: Is there a second?
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Second.
Mayor Furlong: Any discussion on that motion?
Resolution #2006-88: Councilman Peterson moved, Councilwoman Tjornhom seconded
that the City Council approve the order for preparation of plans and specifications for City
Project 07-01, Koehnen/Yosemite Reconstruction. All voted in favor and the motion
carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0.
Mayor Furlong: Motion prevails. Thank you. Thank you and we look forward to the continued
involvement of the residents, not only on the issues discussed tonight but on all the other issues
that they brought up at the open houses and we appreciate your efforts there to make this project
as good as possible. Yeah, why don't we just take a short recess subject to the call of the Chair.
Let's assume about 5 minutes.
The City Council took a short recess at this point in the meeting.
PUBLIC HEARING TO CONSIDER CHANGING THE LOCAL BOARD OF APPEALS
& EQUALIZATION PROCESS TO AN OPEN BOOK PROCESS.
Mayor Furlong: This was an item that we discussed at our last work session. We didn't have the
full complement of our council there because of timing issues. If this is something that we
wanted to do, the decision would need to, for next year, the decision needs to be made before
st
December 1, which is Thursday, or Friday, and so that's why, and it requires a public hearing so
that's why we're doing this tonight and would hold the benefit of council as well as comments
from the public and more information from the County Assessor who stayed tonight so why don't
you go ahead and maybe explain the process a little bit more and some of the things that we
talked about 2 weeks ago and what are the issues to consider.
Angie Johnson: Okay. Good evening. You've been used to having your local Board of Appeals
and Equalization, which is made up by the council here. In the past we've been scheduling a half
hour before your regular scheduled meeting for the convenience of the Board. Usually the City
of Chanhassen, because of the appeals, we usually have been there in 2 nights of the regular, the
first night and then usually we convene to a second night. Now the open book, what would
happen actually, our staff would be handling all the appeals exactly the same way as what we do
it right now. The only difference is, the difference is that the open book, when they get their
valuation notice rather than saying that they have to attend here first for an appeal process before
they can go on to the County Board, what it will do is that they will have one week that our staff
will be in our office to take all the phone calls and to make an appointments with people that
want to appeal either their valuations or classifications, so we will be giving them more
opportunity. And basically they can also attend the County Board of Appeals without attending
the local board, so people that have missed the local board, they still can go on to County Board.
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City Council Meeting - November 27, 2006
Where in the past when you do have the local board, they can't. And basically we'll handle it just
as efficiently. Right now we're having members of my staff, plus Hennepin County are coming
here for the local Board. We're getting paid to come here in the evening and you're paying
mileage for these people also. And so just to let you know that basically when it's going to be
held during the office hours or if we need to make an appointments in the evening, we will do so
to help out the citizens of Chan, the City of Chanhassen. And we have had other open book
meetings and they've gone very well on our part. The one thing that council should realize too is
that anything that comes prior to 10 days before your local board, we can handle it internally. It
is not even brought to the council. And so the local Board of Appeals, any of those appeals that
we have settled prior to that, you're not even going to see. And so it's probably about, well the
same kind of process. You're just not going to see those probably handful that are coming here
either before they contact our office or if they are in disagreement with what our valuation you
know stated. And so they still can go through the same appeal at the County Board or Tax
Court. Those appeal process do not change for them. So the only one that we're looking at
changing here is just that one night, and last year, if you remember, the Council had their work
shop first and so when we had our local Board of Appeals scheduled at 6:30. It started late.
There was a little, some disgruntled taxpayers that were here that didn't think that the council
heard what they wanted to express that night. And also I don't think we were given the
opportunity to express what our findings were at that time either because at 7:00 you wanted to
move on. And so it would eliminate also that type of you know, having your property owners a
little upset with that type of process. So if the council has any questions.
Mayor Furlong: Any questions for Ms. Johnson? Ms. Tjornhom, anything?
Councilwoman Tjornhom: I have comments about it. Feelings about it but questions, no.
Mayor Furlong: I guess the question I have, and just for clarification, because I want to make
sure I heard it correctly. You said up until 10 days before the Council, historically we sat as the
Board of Review, if a property owner had a question about their values, they could contact you
and what? Go through a same process as they'd be going through here?
Angie Johnson: Well first of all when the property owner, yes. First of all when property
owners call, we try to answer their questions over the phone. A lot of times that's all it takes.
With our GIS and with our sales and everything, we can pinpoint sales in their neighborhood you
know like that now. And we can tell them what the sales have been doing in their neighborhood.
A lot of times that's all they need to know. From there if they still you know are looking at, they
don't feel their value is correct, we schedule appointments to go out to that home because we do
have to have a physical inspection to that property in order for them to appeal their value. And
so we make an appointment with them. Do a physical inspection of their property. Make sure
all of our information is correct. We come back and pull out sales of comparable properties and
run an analysis through and then basically we'll get back to that property owner with either our
value we feel is still correct or if we need to make an adjustment and ask them if they're satisfied
with it. If they're satisfied, we make the change in-house and basically that's the end of the
process. And we can do that to all the properties up til 10 days prior to the meeting of the local
Board of Appeals.
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City Council Meeting - November 27, 2006
Mayor Furlong: And if this change were made to an open book process, then there would be no
10 day limitation and basically you said rather than people having to be here at City Hall at 6:30
on a Monday in April, there would be a time throughout the week that they could come to start
that process.
Angie Johnson: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: How many people annually do you work with in that before 10 day period? Up
to that 10 days before. Is that something that you often do?
Angie Johnson: Oh yes. Very much so.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Angie Johnson: Probably for the whole county, probably 75% of our appeals are handled in-
house. They don't even go on to a local Board of Appeals.
Mayor Furlong: And is that similar in Chanhassen or do you have any sense of.
Angie Johnson: I'm saying county wide.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. But you don't see any differences in Chanhassen participating that way
versus.
Angie Johnson: No, not really. It's just you know numbers. You know Chanhassen first,
biggest jurisdiction so you're going to have more people calling than what your City of
Hamburg.
Mayor Furlong: Right. Right.
Angie Johnson: Yeah, but overall you know the percentages are going to be about the same.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright.
Todd Gerhardt: Angie, are there any other cities in Carver County that do the open book
process?
Angie Johnson: Last year we had 3 that had the open book. Chaska, Norwood-Young America
and Watertown. This year Chaska I know still is going with open book. I've also been contacted
by the City of Hamburg that's going to open book.
Todd Gerhardt: Any feedback did you use in those processes? Did you survey people that may
have appealed? Did they give you any feedback on the open book versus the old process that
may have went through both?
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City Council Meeting - November 27, 2006
Angie Johnson: No, we didn't do any surveys or anything and the thing is, I guess there are
differences that they didn't have to go to the local Board of Appeals. And in Chaska last year,
we didn't have anybody that came to County Board and so basically all the appeals were just
handled through our office and I guess we satisfied those constituents there.
Mayor Furlong: On an appeal, how often do you end up changing the value? You can't go
higher with the value once the assessment's in place, but…
Angie Johnson: Well we could if we wanted to but we usually don't. We can increase values
and you could too.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Angie Johnson: But um, as far as…
Mayor Furlong: How often have you kept it the same? From your answer I assume you haven't
increased them.
Angie Johnson: Oh yeah.
Mayor Furlong: That you're aware. How often, any sense on how often they've been kept the
same and how often they've been decreased?
Angie Johnson: Yeah, I didn't go back and look at our statistics but I would say, probably 50/50.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Would all those follow the, a personal inspection of the property?
Angie Johnson: Unless we just answered their questions over the phone. If they were satisfied
with our answers that we gave them, then we didn't go forward but we always offered it to the
property owners, that if they wanted us to come out there and do a physical inspection and do
some more analysis with, and so half of them probably didn't have you know.
Mayor Furlong: Is there any way we could get the best of both worlds? Could we have a week
and, because we're looking at change and I think there's, well and I don't want to presume what
people's thoughts are but you know, the having to be at City Hall on a Monday night at 6:30 in
April I think is difficult for some people and so is there any way that either during that 10 day
period or prior to that day period we could have it effectively an open book process so that we
can, because again we've got quite a few of the residents in the county that we can basically
accomplish the same thing, thereby possibly minimizing even the few people that come on a
Monday in April, but if somebody still wants to come locally they could. Are there statutes that
are keeping us from doing something like that or?
Angie Johnson: Well yes, there are statutes. It doesn't say where we have to hold the open book.
We could have our staff come up here and have you know, hold the open book here in the
council chambers or someplace where it would be convenient during times that, but usually what
we would do, we'd have it during you know our office hours pretty much is what it would be.
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City Council Meeting - November 27, 2006
Mayor Furlong: Any other questions at this point? If not, let's open up the public hearing then
and invite any interested party to come up and address the council on this issue.
Debbie Lloyd: Good evening. Debbie Lloyd, 7302 Laredo Drive. I'm in favor of keeping the
process the way it is. I think that people are much more comfortable talking to the elected
representatives of their local community on taxation issues than they would be addressing some
folks at County after they had gone through the process and learned that they disagreed with the
county assessment. When I was a resident of Chanhassen probably for 2 or 3 years our value
had gone up significantly. I was a very young person then and I came and I met with the council
and there was an adjustment in our taxes and although it was uncomfortable for me somewhat, I
think the process worked well and I think, as a young person was much more comfortable
speaking to local authorities than I would have been dealing with the County authorities. And it
was, as uncomfortable as it may be for you to address people you know about taxation, I think
that's one of your responsibilities. Thank you.
Laura Fridgen: Hi. My name is Laura Fridgen, 6291 Blue Jay Circle. I work for Ramsey
County in the assessor's office and we have had open book for as long as I've worked there. I've
been there for 9 years and it is a very good process. We resolve probably 90% of our appeals
before they even go to a further action. I guess a question that I would have, I realize you're all
competent people but I wonder about their knowledge of real estate values, sales, that kind of
thing. The county people, the assessor's we monitor our values. We establish our values based
on sales, and that is how it's calculated. And yes, it does come down to taxes. We assess. We
value and then it translates to taxes, but in Ramsey County and we've seen an increase in open
book and it works well for the people. They're comfortable. They're comfortable coming to us.
I would be more uncomfortable coming to a bunch of people that I didn't feel were trying to
work with me. As far as knowing values. And sales. I don't know if anybody's a realtor or an
appraiser or anything on this council so, that's just my input. It works well in Ramsey County.
Really well.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Anyone else? One for, one against. Alright. Thank you.
Appreciate the comments and opinions. Let's go ahead then, if nobody else does want to speak
we'll, without objection we'll close the public hearing and get some thoughts from members of
the council or if there are other questions that come up, we can address those too. Thoughts and
comments. Councilman Peterson, want to start?
Councilman Peterson: I don't know whether I should admit that I'm a realtor or not. I guess
that's what I'm struggling with so.
Mayor Furlong: Well I've got an admission when it gets down to me.
Councilman Peterson: You know I think that if, what we have I don't like and it has nothing to
do with being uncomfortable or anything from a people's presenting ideas. They are, when
people come before us, it's a challenge to put the assessor's office on the spot and it's awkward
because essentially we want to listen to people but until the assessor gets out to their house,
there's nothing much we can do. So if this streamlines the process, and it saves dollars. I don't
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City Council Meeting - November 27, 2006
think it will save a lot of dollars but it will save some, but if it saves dollars. Streamlines the
process and just generally things flow better and people that have done it like it, then I don't see a
reason why we wouldn't try it. The key word there is try it. We've got a contract that runs 2
more years? Or a year. And to that end, I'm all for kicking the tires with new opportunities so I
say give it a shot.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Councilwoman Tjornhom.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: Well….my husband's a realtor. You know I typically am for less
government all the time and making the process more easy or friendly for the people who pay
taxes, but with this instance I'm going to have to disagree. I think that this is a way for me as a
council person to get the pulse of what's going on in our city as far as how they're being taxed
and how their home values are being valuated. If I don't sit here and no one comes to talk to me,
I don't know what's going on. I don't know how they're feeling. I don't know what's going, I
mean I just, I want to know I guess. And if they go to an assessor's office, which they'll probably
wind up doing anyway, I won't know what happened. I won't know you know where it all began.
The process or anything and I think I'm just taking away their bullets. Yeah, it's uncomfortable
to come and talk about lots of things but this is where it should be done I think. And as an
elected official, I think they'll have perhaps more of my ear than just an assessor would because
I'm accountable to them and to what they're saying and I'm listening to what they're saying and
that's why they put me here so I am not in favor of this. I'm in favor of keeping the process the
way it is and letting people have a chance to come here and speak their piece.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Councilman Lundquist.
Councilman Lundquist: I think in this instance I agree with what Councilwoman Tjornhom had
to say on not shirking responsibility. It's not the fact that it's uncomfortable to sit up here. It's
uncomfortable to talk to neighbors and residents about it. I have always wondered in the 4 times
I've done it that what our real value is to the process other than getting in the way sometimes. As
Mr. Peterson said, we very rarely take an action without review or input or you know we get an
opinion back from the assessor's office and say yeah, that sounds good. It seems right. The vast
majority of them so, in the spirit of streamlining government process, a phrase that we don't use
often enough, where it comes often enough that I'd be willing to give it a shot. Knowing that you
know residents I believe would still ask for the help from their council members and elected
officials if they desired that and I think, I know me personally would do what I could in that
process. There still is a local, I guess I still consider county government as local government so
that's there but this is a process where the assessor makes the determinations essentially and you
know it's a county function. It's something that we contract with the county's assessor's office
and I'm willing to give it a shot for 2 years and see how it works. If that doesn't, if we don't find
that it streamlines the process and makes things simpler or easier, we can always go back. And
you know if it turns out to be a wrong decision, but I'm willing to give it a shot in the interest of
streamlining the process. Making it easier.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. My thoughts since I started out, the reason of hitting this so
early, or quickly here after we first brought it up is simply because of the deadline for Thursday.
If we are to make a decision, we need to make it this evening. The process, I would concur with
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City Council Meeting - November 27, 2006
Councilman Lundquist. In the 4 times I've been through it, and Councilman Peterson as well, it
has been awkward. I guess in issues of full disclosure, I'm an appraiser. I happen to be a
business appraiser but we deal with commercial properties and business assets and business
interests all the time so. With that being said, we have had situations where we have competing
appraisals. One from the property owner. One from the assessor's office. We've had a variety of
issues. The process has been awkward and it is not just this last year. I think this last year
reinforced how awkward it's been the last few years that I've been involved and it's one of the
areas that I think we need to improve. I very much want to be responsive and accessible to our
residents. I think we do that. I think we do that through our visitor presentations as well as
emails and phone calls and there are ways to do that. I guess if we did go forward with this
process, I guess a couple things that I would ask of Ms. Johnson as well as Mr. Gerhardt, and one
is information. Reporting information. We get a lot of good information in terms of market
values and changes and assessed values by asset classes as part of our Board of Review. I would
hope and expect that we get that same information as a City Council. At that point and prior to
the time when that open book meeting were to take place. Is that I assume still something that
we would get.
Angie Johnson: I could definitely supply that to you. I put together an analysis of all the cities
for our County Board of Equalization and so it would include part of Chanhassen so that would
be very accessible too.
Mayor Furlong: I know it's always helpful for us as a council, even though it's early in the year
and we deal with budgets late in the year and tax levies late in the year, to understand how
property values are moving within different asset classes and the…so I think that would be
helpful. The other thing if we went forward, I guess I'd be interested in making sure that there
was a feedback form from anyone, at least from Chanhassen participating in this process, that
perhaps Mr. Gerhardt you and Ms. Johnson can work together to identify and make sure so that
we have a contract right now that we've approved with the assessor's office to assess all the
properties in the city for the next 2 years, and at the work session, even though we didn't have a
full complement of the council, saying if we go forward, tying it to the 2 years would be, would
make sense. It'd be a chance to give it a try and see how it works. But I think as part of that,
some feedback, whether it's a customer comment form or something like that would be
appropriate for everybody. Even if they just called up and asked and such. It may be a little
more effort early on but I think it would be something that would give the council that's going to
be looking at this perhaps 2 years from now, some comfort as to what, how it's been received. If
it isn't being received well, I'm sure we're going to hear about it from some. But I'd like to know
from those that we don't hear from. Give them a chance to do it maybe a little bit more
informally. I would hope that that would be something that we could incorporate as well.
Todd Gerhardt: Definitely Angie and I can get together and draft something and get it to you
before the appeal process starts.
Angie Johnson: Well one thing that does happen in our office, when the appeals process, or
when the valuation notices are mailed, all our appraisers, they run like a phone log. Anybody
that calls in gets logged and so we do keep track of that and then as the process goes on, at least
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City Council Meeting - November 27, 2006
they know the person has called and a phone number so it doesn't get lost you know in
paperwork.
Mayor Furlong: Sure. And I guess if, our staff needs to work with your staff to try to follow up
for those Chanhassen residents that call. I think that would be helpful to us to try to coordinate
that so that we get that feedback. What I'm hearing right now, which was news to me over the
last 2 weeks is that there are a lot of people who work with you already that we probably don't
even know about. And I'd be interested in their feedback too and how that process goes so we
get, for everything. I think it's, the process has been awkward. It has been frustration I think on
the parts of some of us on the council. I think it's been a frustration for some of the residents. In
fact I know it has been a frustration for the residents. I hear it's been a frustration for the
assessor's office and if we can streamline the process, get people fairly resolved. The other thing
that gives me some comfort is that even if we kept the process the way it is now, we're not the
last step. The last step is the county board, regardless in terms of the appeal process. And that's
true whether or not the resident doesn't agree with us or whether or not the assessor's office
doesn't agree with us. They can go to the county board so you know I think if we're the cog in
the wheel, or if we're part of the inefficiency, I'd be willing to step back and if we can make it
more efficient, let's do that. Knowing full well that we're clearly accessible to our residents if
this is an issue that's a problem in terms of whether it's assessed values of the process, I know
we're going to hear about it. And whether that's true with normal communications, such as email
and phone calls or whether it's during visitor presentations at our City Council meetings. I would
not be in favor of doing this on a permanent basis at this point until we move forward under the 2
year period, but I think it's, sometimes you've got to try some things new and see if it works and
I'd be willing to do that here because I think of our confidence in the assessor's office as well as
what I'd like is a much more active role with our city staff. Working with them in terms of
getting the feedback and the results.
Angie Johnson: Mayor, just a clarification. I hear you've been talking 2 years. If you turn this
to open book to the county, it's a minimum of 3 years.
Mayor Furlong: Is that by statute?
Angie Johnson: That's by statute. That's by statute.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Angie Johnson: So just a point.
Mayor Furlong: I guess, the difference between 2 years and 3 years, I don't know that that's, to
me that's not a make or break. I think I would not be in favor of a permanent transfer, and if the
minimum is 3, then I would go with the minimum, but I'd be interested to know Councilman
Peterson or Councilman Lundquist, your thoughts. Or Councilwoman Tjornhom, if you have
any other thoughts as well.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: I just want to put for the record that I think last year there was a lot of
frustration from our residents because the meeting was scheduled for only a half hour and there
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City Council Meeting - November 27, 2006
was no time. We had people here that wanted to speak and they weren't allowed to speak
because we had to go into our 7:00 meeting so I don't know if it was they were frustrated because
they had to come and speak to us, or if it was because they weren't allowed to after they cleared
their schedule to come. So I just want to make that clear that that was one of the frustrations
from last year.
Angie Johnson: And that was frustration just that they weren't allotted that whole half hour. It
was shortened, but we have.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: And the half hour wasn't enough either.
Angie Johnson: We've been running a half hour for probably the last 5 years I would say, if not
longer even that it's been changed to that.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: And I guess from my opinion about the whole thing, if I've got a tax
problem, I'd be pretty ticked off too if there were 30 people in the room and I, that were all
allowed a half hour. I mean you know, there has to be some fairness in the whole thing too in
allowing people to have a voice in the whole process.
Angie Johnson: And I agree. And if we would keep it as a local board of appeals, I would
definitely suggest that for the upcoming years that it definitely has to be a longer period of time.
At least for the City of Chanhassen. It's worked okay in the other cities, but the city of
Chanhassen I believe we need, just because of the numbers.
Mayor Furlong: I think that's right. The other challenges Mr. Peterson said, is even, the notices
say 6:30 City Hall for the public hearing, and I know we did extend it beyond 7:00 and delayed
our council meeting but it was, I think that was part of the frustrations for people as well. The
other thing is that, some of the people that came here had never contacted the assessor's office
first so even if they spoke, we couldn't deal with it because we didn't have enough information.
We had to continue the hearing and bring them back in 2 weeks or 3 weeks anyway so that's part
of the awkwardness I think that has frustrated me.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: But was that part of the miscommunication perhaps you know when
the notice was sent out, were they told. I have never seen a notice for appeals.
Angie Johnson: I'm sure it's on, it says in bold letters, contact the assessor's office first with our
phone number. It's the first thing it says. Yeah. We tried to put it as bold as possible. As large
as possible but people still overlook it.
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor, I have a question for Angie. To make this a little bit more efficient for
the residents of Chanhassen, you know setting up here for a week, is that efficient for you? In
the notice it would say you know contact you to schedule an appointment and then if they can
meet here in the council chambers versus going down to Carver County. Will you have enough
information here to answer the questions or what is the best process that you would recommend
for that?
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City Council Meeting - November 27, 2006
Angie Johnson: I think when we checked on it that one time that you have a connection so we
can get live access to our files and we just bring in a laptop up here and that'd be sufficient for
the information we needed.
Todd Gerhardt: So you know, I think that would be a benefit for our residents to come here
versus driving all the way down to Chaska. If you decide to go that way.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: And then maybe that's if this does pass, which I think it will, then
maybe that's a good time for them to offer their feedback form then so they're here, right here on
the spot and they can leave their comments about what they just experienced and if it was
something that they thought was more effective or if it was less effective.
Mayor Furlong: Or just overall view of the process. I think that's a good idea. Okay.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: But in that form I would like to have it also, have them answer the
question you know, would you have rather come and spoke to council or do you favor this? I
think that would be a good question in the form for feedback. For the process.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Any other comments? Discussion. Do we have a motion in our council
packet here?
Councilman Peterson: Indirectly there's one that staff is recommending approval of the open
book process and it would be changed to a 3 year term providing annual progress reports as
amended by the comments made by tonight by various council members and the mayor.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. So you would move that motion?
Councilman Peterson: I would.
Mayor Furlong: Thanks.
Councilman Lundquist: Second.
Mayor Furlong: Made and seconded. Any further discussion on that motion?
Councilman Peterson moved, Councilman Lundquist seconded that the City Council
approve the "Open Book Process" for the next 3 years with staff providing annual progress
reports on how the new process was received by the public. All voted in favor, except
Councilwoman Tjornhom who opposed, and the motion carried with a vote of 3 to 1.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Motion prevails. Thank you Ms. Johnson. Appreciate your help
and I think we're going to give a lot more scrutiny to this over the next 3 years so, appreciate all
your efforts.
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City Council Meeting - November 27, 2006
COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS.
Councilwoman Tjornhom: I think Mayor, you and I were at the Westwood Church meeting put
on by the sheriff and I think was a good night. Good information and I think people were
allowed to express themselves and kind of get out their frustrations and fears and I think our
Sheriff and Beth did a wonderful job kind of calming people and reassuring them and teaching
them what to do to keep us all safer and I thought well the good thing was, and I still don't do it,
is just keep your garage doors closed at night. You know simple things like that can make such a
difference. And Neighborhood Watch programs also. You know keeping those alive and really
knowing your neighbors and their activity and what's going on so I thought it was a good
meeting. It was a healing meeting for those residents that were shook by it and so I want to
thank the Sheriff again for, and Westwood Church for hosting it and doing that.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Appreciate those comments. Well said. I think in addition to that,
it was, the meeting was also well attended by residents of Eden Prairie. I understand there were
residents from elsewhere within Carver County because of the uniqueness and rarity of the
situation, I think it either opened people's eyes or shook their sense of comfort a little bit and I
think Sheriff Olson and the Lieutenant from the Eden Prairie Police Department and Beth
Hoiseth, our Crime Prevention Specialist as well as Sergeant Gullickson who were there and a
former Sergeant, now Lieutenant Jim Olson was there too and provided some good comments as
well so I agree with you and would reiterate, it was very effective. It was well run and I think it
was very positive for everyone so appreciate everyone's efforts and are grateful to Westwood
Community Church as well as the Sheriff's department, Police department, everyone involved,
and coordinating that and our staff…so thank them for that. Any other comments? Discussion
items. I guess just a quick comment, last Monday evening the City Council met with the
Watershed District. Riley-Purgatory-Bluff Creek, did I get that in the right order?
Todd Gerhardt: Yeah you did.
Mayor Furlong: Alright. And it was a good meeting, so I want to just get it on the council
minutes that not only that the meeting occurred but it was a productive meeting. To thank all
those involved from the district, our city and the managers from the watershed district and our
city staff and others that were involved because I think it will provide the opportunity for us to
make some improvements with projects, not only with our relationship with the district but also
get some good storm water projects done and improvements to Bluff Creek as well as elsewhere
in the city so it was a good meeting.
Todd Gerhardt: We've already started dialogue with some of the managers and staffs and in the
future I think we'll have both in a face to face meeting and make sure to address the issues raised
at that meeting. But again I think, want to thank all the council members that attended that
meeting. It definitely sent a message to the managers that you know you care about Bluff Creek
and the health of that creek and working together so, I think that sent a strong message to them.
Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Any other council presentations? If not, Mr. Gerhardt.
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City Council Meeting - November 27, 2006
ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS:
Todd Gerhardt: Well, probably the big news right now is that 312 is open to Dell Road and I
think the Mayor cut 5 extra minutes or so to his daily commute to Eden Prairie and so for the
public that wants to realize 312, it is open off of Dell Road so take advantage of that. Water
treatment plant is moving along on schedule. This past week we got windows and doors in. The
base coat for the driveway and cul-de-sac turn around area has been laid, so that's a good sign.
Hopefully you know firing it up here towards the end of December, January timeframe is on
schedule so that's great news. The east/west collector road, the base coat on that roadway has
been laid. A trail is in. They're doing wetland mitigation. If you drive back in that area, Ryland
does have 2 models up. That's the single family development on the old Degler Farm, so they're
moving ahead there. And wrapping up as we get closer to winter, I think we'll feel it here on
Thursday. Other than that I think that's about it from administration.
Mayor Furlong: I guess that begs to question, are the plows ready to go?
Todd Gerhardt: We are ready to go. Yep, we're out staking some of the trail areas that we plow
so if you see lath along the trails, that's so we don't tear up people's sod and the plow trucks are
all greased and got sand and salt piled, ready to load them up and just waiting for that first
snowfall.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Good, any questions for Mr. Gerhardt?
Councilman Peterson: I didn't know you're a weather forecaster now too.
Mayor Furlong: I don't care when it comes. I just know it's…
Todd Gerhardt: …I said we're ready for it.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Anything else to come before the council this evening?
CORRESPONDENCE DISCUSSION.
None.
Mayor Furlong: City Council work session, we did not complete all of our items. One of the
items, discussion of Capital Improvement program will be delayed. We'll have a work session
next week, prior to Truth in Taxation. And I know that's been publicly noticed next Monday
night, 7:00 here in the council chambers. We'll hold our Truth in Taxation hearing. And the
public is very welcome to come. Encouraged to come and this is the discussion of our budget for
th
2007 and what the resulting tax levy will be for next year so that's next Monday night on the 4.
We will meet in work session prior to that to discuss the capital improvement program budget for
07 and some other items. We will, the City Council will meet in executive session in the
Fountain Conference Room to continue discussion on the City Manager's performance review,
which is part of our annual duties immediately following this meeting as well.
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City Council Meeting - November 27, 2006
Councilman Peterson moved, Councilman Lundquist seconded to adjourn the meeting.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0. The City
Council meeting was adjourned at 9:12 p.m..
Submitted by Todd Gerhardt
City Manager
Prepared by Nann Opheim
37