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1993 07 12CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING JULY I2, 1993 Mayor Chmiel called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. The meeting was opened with the Pledge to the Flag. COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT: Mayor Chmiel, Councilman Senn, Councilman Mason, Councilwoman Oockendorf and Councilman Wlng STAFF PRESENT: Don Ashworth, Roger Knutson, Scott Hart, Dave Hempel, Paul Krauss, Sharmin Al-Jarl, Kate Aanenson and Jo Ann 01sen APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Councilman Wlng moved, Councilman Mason seconded to approve the agenda wlth the following additions under Council Presentations: Councilman Senn wanted to dlscuss no wake zones; Councilwoman Dockendorf wanted to dlscuss audio equipment; and Councilman Mason wanted to talk briefly about what's allowed to be bullt on large lots, over 2 1/2 acres. All voted in favor of the agenda as amended and the motion carried. PUBLIC ANNOUNCEHENTS: Mayor Chmiel: I have two public announcements this evening. One is regarding our flre fighters. At this time I would like to recognize members of our Chanhassen Flre Department that rlsked thelr 1lyes resculng two individuals from the dangerous waters of the Minnesota River and I'd like to ask our Public Safety Director, Scott Hart to introduce the members of our Flre Department that put their 1lyes on the 11ne to save others. We as a Council really appreciate our Flre Department members. They do an excellent job and they always extend the greatest efforts that they possibly can. So with that, Scott. Scott Hart: Thank you Mr. Mayor. Mr. Hayor and Clty Counc11, and before I begln I'd 11ke to ask Councilman Wlng to step down and take a seat next to the Fire Chlef wlth the Flre Department where he serves as Assistant Flre Chlef. Thank you. As you may have seen on the news or read in the papers, the Chanhassen Fire Department was heavlly involved ina water rescue on the Minnesota Rlver on June 22nd of this year. As you may recall, two teenagers were swept off of thelr blcycles lnto the river.after attempting to rlde through the water. The call that involved Chanhassen Fire was originally called for the Carver County Dive Team whlch has a number of Chanhassen flre flghters as members. Other fire fighers from our department responded to assist. At this polnt I'd 11ke to ask Mann to show a brlef vldeo of the rescue. (At this point a video of the rescue was shown to the audience in the Council Chambers whlle Scott Hart described what was happening.) Scott Hart: At this point one of the victims has already been rescued from the water. The other's been tled to the tree to avold belng swept downstream further and at this point, about 2 1/2 hours has elapsed wlth no one being able to determine the best manner to get thls person to shore and at thls polnt Chanhassen Fire arrlves on the scene with our rescue boats to make an attempt wlth the boats. And to glue you a perspective, what you're looklng down ls the blcycle path with water up to one's waist at least on lt. And you can see the City Council Heetkng .... July 12, 1993 force of the water with the difficulty the rescuers are having just standing up in it~ What she's explaining to the news media is, this is ~ member of the Sheriff's Mounted Posse and she was there when one of the police officers ,~ttempted to w~Lk out to ~ffect the rescue ~nd fell down through a sink hole that h~d developed ~nd that offlcer, the police offlcer was stuck underneath the ~sphalt. He just disappeared ~nd she h~d reached underneath to pull him out of ~he ~,~ter. Now you're looklng rlght down the bicycle path. Now you can see one of the fire fighters ~ttempting to w~l.k ~cross into the r~pids and just can't make lt. Now lt's ~ short dlstance they need to get him across the pathway but they've been trying for 2 1/2 hours and with the current just can't make it. At thls point the Chanhassen 'rescue boats and cre~ gets there. Chlef Wlng is operating the boat at this point. NokJ what they've decLded to do is put the smal!er boat down...the rescue team worked by ropes from the larger boat tled off to trees. ~ will add that the fire fLghter in the boat is Nike Kerber who's una. ble to be here tonlght because he's dispatching for the Sheriff's Offlce, the night shift.. As soon as they get him untLed here. Now to get an 1dee of how dangerous thls water ls, take a look at our flre flghters trying to 9et back across the water, which they just can't do. They had to in turn be rescued 'From the water themselves with a boat. That's Dale Gregory who Z assure you ls no 10 pound weakling trying to get across that current. Mayor Chmlel: With that I'd like to glue a round of applause. Scott Herr: Mi-. Mayor, if I could recognZze each fire fighter individually with LtS tonight. Are Dale Gregory, Jim Tiche, Richard Wing, Don Gray, Greg Hayes, Brian Smith, John Murphy, Mark Littfin, Sco~.t Anding and our Fire Chief Jim McHahon. As you can see, this was an extremely technical rescue and one that was truly life threatening. Because this was actually ,':i Chaska community call the media real!y centered on that department but as you can see, Chanhassen Fire Rescue was responsible to a great degree for the successful rescue. This incident shows the professionalism and preparedness of our Fire Department that Z'm extremely proud of. Thank you. Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. With that ! know you have to get back over to the Fire Department to do your tralning. Appreciate your comlng here. You can take off any tlme you'd 1lYe. Thanks. All except you Richard. Z have one more announcement~ Is Mark Kaviska here? Mark are you here? if not, I was going to make a presentation. I'd just like to make this of record. That the City Council appreciates (Dave's) serving on our Park and Rec Commission the past several years and he's moved to another community so we wanted to provide him with this Certificate of appreciation from the City of Chanhassen. Be it hereby ordained that the Chanhassen git>' Council has officially acted to recognize Dave Koubsky for the dedication and public service offered to the citizens of our community as a Park and Recreation Commissioner. Further, that the City Council has hereby placed into the official Minutes this recognition as a lasting expression and the gratitude of the City for the services provided. And signed, sealed and we will deliver this to him. Thank you. CONSENT AGENDA: Roger Knutson: We made one correction on the Findings. City Council Meeting - July 12, 1993 Mayor Chmiel: Oh yes, you're right. Okay. As Roger provided us earlier, the Findings of Fact and Decision regarding the Schmids Acre Recreational Beachlot. There is one addition to that that was left off what he provided us and that was the bottom line of boats on land, one. That should be added to the Findings of Fact and Decisions. Roger Knutson: My notes were just inaccurate. When I got your Minutes and I found that error just today. Mayor Chmiel: So with that I'd like to get approval for item (b), (g) and item (h). Councilwoman Oockendorf moved, Councilman Mason seconded to approve the following Consent Agenda items pursuant to the City Manager's recommendations: b. Findings of Fact, Schmids Acres Recreational Beachlot, as amended. g. Approval of Accounts. h. City Council Minutes dated June 28, 1993 Planning Commission Minutes dated June 16, 1993 All voted in favor and the motion carried. E. APPROVE CHANGE ORDER NO. 1, LAKE ANN PARK IRRIGATION PROJECT. Mayor Chmiel: I think Don took off for some things that I have some concerns about. That is where this is a change order for Lake Ann irrigation project whereby they're going to be requesting another $5,000.00 plus dollars to offset some additional costs for the, as they call it, their company, Innovative Irrigation. It was $5,373.00. Indicated that they did not have room within the shelter portion that we have and it seems to me that I think we can probably still make some changes in there. What I'd like to do is table this so a resotvement can come from it. Rather than putting on another box out in the middle of the ballfield. Another green contained metal cabinet. And if there's nothing that can be done other than what they've indicated, I've tried to get some answers and I've discussed it with Don. I think what we'd like to do is to see if we can find another way of doing it. If there isn't, then we'll resolve it back to where we're at. So with that I'd like to make a recommendation that we table item (e) for the irrigation project. Councilman Senn: Don, I'd also like to see just some, I mean I understand it's a change order and $5,000.00 sounds like a little bit of money but I mean that's over 10% of the total budget's a change order. That concerns me. But 1'11 move tabling. Mayor Chmiel: Is there a second? Councilman Mason: Second. Councilman Senn moved, Councilman Hason seconded to table action on Change Order No. ! for the Lake Ann irrigation project. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. City Coulee.i_..]. Heeting - .l'l!ly t2, 1993 MEMORANDUM OF AGREEMENT FOR METROPOLITAN COUNCIL TO PROVIDE TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE IN PROGRAM REVIEW ANO ANLYSIS T_O LAKE MINNETONKA AREA CITIES. Councilman Senn' I had several questions. First of all, are there any city costs to this? Don Ashworth: Other than staff attending meetings, no. Councilman Senn: Okay. A little background or rationale as to how we're kind of associated with this consortium per se. I mean most of them are small communities [)ordering Lake fdinnetonka. We"re rleither. I'm just curious hot, that all ties together. Don Ashworth: The only explanation I can give is we have done a lot of 'things with those cities over the years in terms of mutual aid. Shorewood, sharing of parks. Sewer.~ water systems. We provide animal control for most. of the cities. I'F they're looking at best way to provide services and we're one of the service providers, it seems logical that we would be a part of 'that process. Councilman Senn: But what in effect are those? You mean basically through the funds we give to South Shore Senior Citizens or what? I mean what I'm trying to get at is how do we get into that service area per se of Lake Hinnetonka? Bo'n Ashworth: Again toe provide animal control services to all of those cities. Me have sewer and water, joint services with Shorewood across their entire border. We do fire fighting. We recently had a flre fighter actually hurt on a call. there. L..Je wer'e asked to join and it seemed like a reasonable thing to do and that's why I presented it to you. Councilman Senn: Well _T was kind of amused by your closing comment. I have a real hard time kind of seeing us entering this kind of a process with the Met Co,}ncil right now. ~ meai~ right not,~ the game ove-r there seems to be, are they justified or aren't they justified and which politician are they serving, depending on who wants to get rld of the Het Council and who wants to keep it and I just see it as a hlghly politicized body at thls point. Oon Ashworth: There is that potential. Information iS power information can be abused. State Auditor's offlce highly abused information when it took after Excelsior here 2 yea'rs ago. There is a potential. In reviewing our services and how we provide those, that it may~ we may get caught Lip in a political game. .... ;r hope not I hope that it is truly a look at how to b_.=t¢.~ provide services for this group of citles. Mayor Chmiel: That's really what my understanding is of tha-t as well Hark. I think the relationships of working with each of the other citles in tr?lng to achieve some of the problems that they have and just 11ke us providing water services and extension sometimes of sewer services into this. Into other cities. That the availability ls not there. In some ways it beneflts us and other ways it doesn't and some ways I would hope to see that if we have to provlde those services, that we probably acqulre those additional properties ~githin the city. And that's why I'm leaning towards that segment of some concern regarding water and sewer services. Are we going to 'take it away from tl-,e city and residents ourselves by expanding or letting other cities tap into City Council Meeting - July 12, 1993 our areas that are just adjacent to their's. So that's...issue. Councilman Senn: Isn't that something we evaluate ourselves first? Mayor Chmiel: To a certain point we do, right. But this also becomes involved where upon Council would look at that and view that and come up with conclusions as well. Colleen? Councilwoman Dockendorf: As I understand it, it's just a 3 year study to look into the possibility. We're not recommending any collaboration or anything at thls polnt. Mayor Chmiel: No. That's correct Councilwoman Dockendorf: And I'm just curious. I don't want to throw this comment back in your face Don but you say we're tired of being kicked around. dldn't understand what that meant. Don Ashworth: I think we provide a very good service level for our community and I thlnk we've provlde it ina very cost effective manner. But it seems as though the Governor's office has continued to take and say, cities are bad guys and others and qulte truthfully I'm tlred of belng klcked around, t'd just as soon stand up. Show people what it ls we do and why we do it and to prove that we are a cost efficient government, Councilwoman Oockendorf: Alright, thanks. Mayor Chmiel: Good point. Any other discussion? Councilman Mason: I'd like to move approval of item 2(f). Councilwoman Dockendorf: Second. Councilman Hason moved, Councilwoman Oockendorf seconded to approve the Hemorandum of Agreement for Metrpolitan Council to provide technical assistance in program review and analysis to Lake Hinnetonka area cities. All voted in favor, except Councilman Senn who opposed, and the ~otion carried with a vote of 4 to 1. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: EXTENSION OF NEZ PERCE DRIVE, FRANK BEDOOR. Public Present: Name Address Sherry Novacyzk John Fess Tami Falkowsky Jeff B Gary McCauley Curtis Anderson 6371 Pleasant View Cove 6280 Ridge Road 850 Western Drive 850 Western Drive 420 Pleasant View Road 500 Plesaant View Road City Council Meeti~g -~ July !2, t993 Address gonathan Smith Birgitte Myller Bernstsen Micheile Beddor David Beddor Todd Cocall. as Jame Ledin cf._,.even 3a. eger Bavld &Linda Lyndahl Don & Oarlene Miller Dan & Sharon Rogers Ren.elle R. Ulrich David & Paula Donna Frederic 8runo Steve Beddor 6ail Born Jim & Mary Stasson Mike ~ Mary Meuwissen Frank & Marilyn Beddor Darlene ~. L?ndsey Beryl Fortier Oavid Sellergren Jullus C. Smlth 8ill & Ann Miller I,~.P. & B.J. Gulllckson Laurie Curnow Larry Tlvy .~eff & Norma Hay John & Jar, Nicolay Peg Scheletzche Karen Robldeau Oavid Kelly gerry & Terl Frederick Oavid & Valerie Rossbach A.W. Owens Kenneth Lincap Kimberly Murphy John Schevenius Conrad & Michelle Eggan Greg & Barbara Hedlund Marlow Peterson L?nda gohnson Hank .~ohn H. Cunningham 6ordy & Patsy Whlteman Sharon 8reef Jira Meyer Steve HcKinnon Jeff Schoenwetter Ron & Karen Green Teresa & Ban Schrempp ?600 France Ave So, Minneapolis 1050 Pleasant View Road 850 Pleasant View Road 1050 Pleasant Vlew Road 860 Vineland Court 840 Vineland Court 880 Vineland Court 6501Nez Perce Drive 395 Pleasant View Road 6500 Nez Perce Drive 6581 Nez Perce Brive 881Vineland Court 65~0 Fox Path 1010 Pleasant View 1.010 Pleasant View 5400 Peaceful Lane 5580 Troendle Circle ~10 Pleasant Vlew Road 7951 Powers Bird, Golden Valley St. Paul Chaska 6561 Fox Path 830 Pleasant View Road 650 Pleasant View Road 370 Pleasant View 745 Pleasant View ~08 Pleasant Vlew Road 680 Pleasant View 540 Pleasant View 6580 Nez Perce Orive 660 Pleasant View Road ~?0 Pleasant View Road 6535 Peaceful Lane 6735 Nez Perce Drive 6870 Nez Perce Drive 570 Pleasant View Road 6500 Peaceful Lane 748 Lake Point 1180 Pleasant View Road 1140 Pleasant View Road 855 Pleasant View 6665 Horseshoe Curve 825 Pleasant View 855 Pleasant View Road 6225 Ridge Road 941 Lake Lucy Road 3.M.S. Development ~02~ Lake Lucy Road 1041 Lake Lucy Road Bryce, Shelly, Luke & Katie Fief 1040 Lake Lucy Road City Council Heeting -- July 12, 1993 Name Address Todd & Gayle Lantto 3im & Sue Duchene Mary 3o Olson Terry Bauk Len Kluver 3enny 3ohnson 3an Hansen Darryl & Liz Ann Wills Rodd 3ohnson Ron Green 981 Lake Lucy Road 961 Lake Lucy Road 1020 Lake Lucy Road 960 Lake Lucy Road 1080 Lake Lucy Road 1061 Lake Lucy Road 1081 Lake Lucy Road 1060 Lake Lucy Road 1061 Lake Lucy Road 102i Lake Lucy Road Mayor Chmiel: Paul, prior to Hr. 8eddor conveying his presentation, I would like you to provide the Council some of the background that we have done with this particular project. So just sort of a refresher and Z think you've probably all read it but I think there may be something you may have to add to it. paul Krauss: Sure Mr. Mayor. The original roadway concept was developed in 1989 with the Vineland Forest plat. At that time the city contemplated running the internal street in Vineland Forest between Lake Lucy and Pleasant View Road. Mr. Beddor, and several others, raised concerns with potential traffic issues on Pleasant View and it was agreed that the city should study options that minimize the potential for problems and minimize the concerns before they ever had a chance to occur. Staff developed 4 alternative road alignments. Ultimately the City Council selected what was referred to as Alternative ¢3 which has really served as the guiding document for all the city decisions since 1989. That does show a connection, generalized a connection between Pleasant View and Nez Perce via the Peaceful Lane intersection. The plat, the Vineland Forest plat was approved based upon the plan for the connection. Every home buyer in Vineland Forest is put on notice through notice in the chain of title that the road's to be extended and there was a temporary cul-de-sac constructed with a barricade that had a sign on it that said this road is to be extended. The Lake Lucy Road loop that's recently being billed as a solution by some was studied in the 1989 document, which I included in your packet. It doesn't show up on the alternatives but we did go through an analysis of all the potential connections into the Vineland Forest, Troendle, Owens area and it was dismissed at that time. Largely because it really didn't resolve the access issues. Because it would have impacted lots on Lake Lucy Road and because there was some grade questions. Grade's not impossible. It could be done but it was pointed out as a problem. Z should point out that where that Lake Lucy Road loop is now being proposed is an outlot that was acquired by the city a number of years ago potentially for right-of-way. Homes have since been built on Lake Lucy Road on those two adjoining lots. Since we didn't anticipate this road, or this outlot coming back as a road, those two homes were built with less than the required front yard setbacks on what's in essence their side yards, which would face this outlot. One is 25 feet from the right-of-way. The other's 27 feet and I haven't been inside the homes but it looks like the orientation is that, because the garages are away from the outlot, that some of the living space is actually focused on the area that is in the outlot. $o again that was studied. City code does require a 20 foot setback if a street's to be put through there. There would be a variance situation that would result. There would probably be City Council Heeting .... 3ttLy 12, 1973 some t'alr sized impacts to 'those homes as ~Jell. In 1990 Mr. Beddor brought ~or~,':a. rd plans to develop the TroendLe Addition. L,~ke Lucy Road residents were very concerned and were very vocal at that time about having all the gro~ing levels of traffic into the VLneland Forest, Troendle Addition coming down Lake LLtcF Road, Nez Perce in front of their homes. They came to the Council meeting and asked that no approvals be g'ranted for the plat urmtil the road connection ~¢as made. Hr. Beddof"s representatives indicated strong support for the connection as illustrated in Hinutes ,~nd ma'terials that ~ere submitted by them. However, they indicated that the connection was ultimately out of their hands at that point since the last piece of the puzzle is the O~ens parcet and that in a bankruptcy proceeding at that time. They indicated that they ~¢ere negotiating on that parcel ,~nd ~ould be cooperative o~ith the city. The Councll considered limiting the number of lots that could be built on the Troendle Addition. I don't kno~ if al1 of you recall but you actually approved it pt-eliminarily with I 'think only 6 lots being allo~¢ed, if memory serves. U!tim,~tely we sat down t,¢ith Hr. 8eddof~'s representatives and negotiated an arrangement whereby they were alto~¢ed to proceed with the entlre plat based on the road connection ultimate!y bein(~ made incr'ementally, which toas alt~ays it's design, and that they would pay $10,000.00 towards the ultirnate cost of that road which was computed to be t,~hat t~ould have been assessed to those lots had they' had a road project existed. A development contract ~.¢as...and I understand that the money wa.s, or a !ettev of credit was deposited for it. Similarly ~,¢ith the Vine.land Forest plat, the Troendle Addition homeowners were ~lso put on notice 'that the road is to be extended. The city then approved a grading plan ~,¢hich altowed Fir. Bed.dot to regrade and landscape the ponding area on the Owens parcel. 'This was approved based upon the determination that finish grading ~¢ould still allo~ the connection to be made and that reasonable development of the site with single family homes t~ould remain possible. There has since been related a smaller scale actions including, that ~¢ere related to the road connection including ,~ small lot division in Vinel~nd Forest. And again, we have exhibits that were prepared by Hr. Fortier on behalf of Mr. Beddor illustrating how that connection would~,~,~ m~de. The Owens parcel cleared bankruptcy and ~,~as sold in tb~o pieces, f'lr. beddor acquired the north half bChile another developer has purchased the south. The owner of the south half currently has a plat pending that's based upon the approval of the connection to Pleasant Piece Road. It t,¢as scheduled 'For last t,¢eek's Planning Commission meeting but in .light of the fact that you were discussing roadway issues and couldn't really act on the plat without the road~¢ay being determined, we pulled it from the agenda to await your decision. At the same time we received that plat, llr. 8eddor's representatives announce~J opposition to the street connection and implied that they would be building a home that would sit in the propose ~lignment. t,Je've since h~d exhibits that show ~here that home would be. bJhen ~his c.ame up before the Troendte Addition, staff was asked to bring this item back to the Council ~¢ithin ~8 months or tohen anything significant occurred on it. Me did bring it back to the Councll in Hay. We did bring it to you asking that you consider official mapping or some other mech,~nism to at least reserve the right-of-~ay through there so that the road connection could ultimately be made. The Councll at that point elected to order the condemnation of the right-.-of-way and that ~¢as the last official action that ~¢as taken on this proposal. There's ~ tremendous amount of inforr, ation of one sort or another that circu!eted on this issue. Staff continues to believe that the connection makes sense from ~ traffic s~Tety, for v~sion of emergency ¢~nd maintena, nce seT'vices, traffic equity and good planning practices standpoint, ble'd be happy City Council Meeting - July 12, 1993 to expand on each of those if desired but we've prepared numerous staff reports that go into them in detail. With that I would close, except I'd like to add a comment on some of the calls that we've been getting. There seems to be an implication that the City was studying or is thinking about studying the widening of Nez Perce south of Lake Lucy Road or Pleasant View Road. itself, or additional connections into the Fox Chase subdivision. None of those are in fact the case. None of those have been talked about in the 4 years I've been involved with this issue. With that Hr. Mayor, that's the background on it. Hayor Chmiel: Okay. Thank you. Don, do you. Don Ashworth: If I could Mr. Mayor. The City Council can be reasonably assured that you will have 50 or more residents from Lake Lucy Road expounding upon the dangers that exist on that roadway and the terrible impact that will be created if Mr. Beddor's 15 to 20 lot subdivision is reconnected to Lake Lucy Road. City Council can also reasonably expect 50 or more residents from Pleasant View expounding upon the dangers of that roadway and the terrible impact that will occur if Mr. Beddor's 15 to 20 lot subdivision is allowed to connect to Pleasant View. Property owners along Lake Lucy Road will be asking the Council not to reconsider the decision that was made by the previous Council and Mr. Beddor 4 years ago. Property owners on Pleasant View will be asking that the Council act to reconsider that decision. I believe it is reasonable to state that property owners on both Pleasant View and Lake Lucy Road can contend that they made decisions to purchase or sell relying upon their reading of the Minutes where Mr. Beddor received his approval, relied upon the signs that were posted showing the new connection, and relied upon the covenants which were placed on each of the lots which showed that connection would be made to Pleasant View. I don't think that the current Council should get caught in the dilemma as to the effects of 15 or 20 lots on either of the two streets. The sole question to be answered is, did Hr. Beddor portray how the traffic from his new subdivision could best gain access to and from their properties and had the City Council agree with Hr. 8eddor's presentation. Unfortunately we cannot go back and eliminate the 15 to 20 lots. Accordingly, the only issue we can reasonably review is whether or not that decision had been made and whether or not Mr. Beddor had made those commitments as a condition of his plat approval. If there's a liability issue, it currently rests with Mr. Beddor. Staff cannot recommend that liability now be shifted to the city. Reconsideration cannot be recommended. Mayor Chmiel: Okay, thank you. Mr. Beddor. If you'd like to go through your presentation as to what you have. Frank Beddor: Thank you Mr. Mayor. I didn't realize I was such a bad guy. Z would like to have, if I could, I'd like to have Daryl assist me. I don't have overheads but I would like to show a couple of plats, or boards. I appreciate the opportunity to come here before I would like, before i start to clear the air on a few items. In one of the'memorandums that went out by the city it sounded as though I was questioning the integrity of the Minutes that were kept at the last meeting. The last meeting of the 24th I was unable to attend and I had Baryl Fortier and 3ules Smith attend. Well, sometime after that I read the Minutes of the meeting and when I read these Hinutes t was very upset and I called 3ules and I said 3ules, what were you doing at that meeting? I didn't see one word in there where you made a presentation about our solution. 3utes said t,.~eli, I certainly made the presentatiorl. Maybe they ran out of tape. Ha. ybe they t,,,e're changing tape, so ~ said fine. Then ~ called Oaryl and ~ said g/~ryl~ ~ just read the blinutes and ~ said~ ~ kno~ that Jeff~ the developer of O~,~ens~ is a nice young guy but why ~,~ere yOU Up making presentations on his behalf? He said well that. ~Jas an error. They probably should have put~ they ..jus~ accidentally put my name dot,~n instead of his. I said okay~ ~ can understand that. ~ said but how come you didn't make any presentations on the solution? He said, ~ell I don't knout. ~ made the presentation a. nd t~hat I put .i.n this little ma.iling ~,~as~ is that it was a coincidence that both 'representatives that I had here, there ~as no mention in the Hinutes about ~,Jhat the sotution ~as. And I apologize to the, either staff or Council if they felt iii rfly maiJ. ing Z sent out ~ b~as trying to question the integrity.. ]: think :[ used the ~ord coincidence. Zncidentallx, ~e have had some meet}rigs ~ith different homeo~ner's and X ~,~as very surprised at one of the meetings t0hen one of the Vineland people said to me, you kno~o Z can't sign thls petition you have and the reason ~ can't s.tgn this petition is ~,~e signed ~ covenants. Zn our tLtie there's a covenants that says, give me a second. That ~,Je're not allo~ed to sign this type of petition and :[ said, ~ell Z can'[ really be./ieve that. Z said Z have a developers agreement after that period. That's not on mX developers agreement, Z don't think. So Z had gules check ~..t out and Z kind of b.[e~ up copy of the 1989, December 18th of the developers agreement ~i'[h Vineland Forest and to read just part of Lt. Zt says, each o~aner purchasing a ~ot in VineLand Forest agrees not to object to such a possible future road~ax extension. So said, not,~ that might not have anxthing to do ~ith me or at Troendl. e',~ but then b~e talked to the developer and he sent us a letter and he said that provision ~Jas put :i.n the covenants and the restr/ctions at the insistence of the City of Chanhassen. No~ X ~,~asn't involved in that. ~t the ti~e th~s came up ~.~e d~d not ot,~n either Troendle's property and t,~e didn't ot~n Art. Otaens propertx~ But if thJ. s ~,¢as such a, if 4 years ago here this ~as such a cut and dry deai, Z ~onder ufhy that bfasrm't put in our deue!opers agreement. The other thing that, before start, that Z'd 11kc to check on is, people are wondering why ~¢e're concerned ~tbout Pleasant YJ. eb~ Road being t,Jidened. (~e11, one of the reasons Z'rn concerned about it, Z'11 get ir~to in just a second but at a meeting on August 8th, 1990 t,~hen t,Je b~ere applFLng for a plat, ~uLes called me And said t,~el.]., Z'm aJ_l set ;,~ith the plat. However, there's one last thlng you have to do. Real.iF two. You have to donate or dedicate some la. nd al. ong, ,~. strip 81ong Pleasant UJ. etg Road. Z said ~dhat do we need that for, and let me read ~¢hat the memo Z got from .Jules sa.i.d. This ls, he's quotlng the staff. The reason that the staff stated, one reason amongst others. You are dedicating thls property to the city so that they t,~iJ..1 obJn this property in the event that they t,~ish to t,~J. dened the road Ln the futLtre. And if it were not dedicated at thls tlme, and they declded to uJi. dened the road in the future, they'd have to condemn the property and reimburse you 'for the VaiLte. ~,Jell of course my antenna went up u~hen anybody talks about t~idening the road. One other thing that did h~ppen dur.i, ng that time, so ~¢e dedicated the land. No~,¢ Z didrm't agree wlth that but Z accepted You knot,¢ a !or of times you accept something, that sounds !lke an agreement but ]: accpeted it because ~,¢e dldn't have any other cholce. Another J. tem we had to accept t,~As, and Z probabl, y take a little exceptLon at. this. That t,~e pay $10,000.00 for improving Nez Perce Road or maklng the extenslon~ ~1ell first, d.i. dn't pay $10,000.00. b~e issued the city a letter of credit to be drawn upon ufhen and if there is a neu.¢ intersection. Z was told that this $30,000.00 needed riot to extend Nez Perce Oriue, but u~here Plea. s~nt Uieb~ or u~here Peaceful. Lane a'nd Pleasant Ulew ~oin, there's t~oo great big wide swi'nging turns and they 10 City Council Heeting - July 12, 1993 wanted to bring that back into a T. So to make that T was going to cost $30,000.00 so they couldn't assess Vineland anymore because they had already settled with the city. So they were assessing Troendle's and I put up the letter of credit because I didn't want it as an assessment. I had to have clear title to the lots, and then they were going to assess whoever bought Art Owens property and what they're going to do to the other $10,000.00, I don't know. But you know it kind of sounds as though Frank Beddor knew all about this road. He willingly put in money. He had to get his permit and he was going to contribute towards the extension of Nez Perce Drive. And that's not really true. I was under the impression that this was for a T in the road. I do have one thing to say to the, that I would like to address for a second to the Lake Lucy residents. All of us that live on Nez Perce Road and Pleasant View sympathize wlth your problems of increased trafflc and speed and safety and maybe a partlal answer there would be stop signs and lowering the speed. But you knot, it was 8 or 9 years ago that we were at thls same klnd of a meeting and Pleasant View was going to be widened at that time and we defeated that and if that road had gone through at Pleasant Vleu at that tlme, I don't think anybody from Lake Lucy would be living on that road and I brought a plat just to show what that What was proposed way back 8 or 9 years ago, when Near Hountaln was going ln, was comlng from TH 101, right straight across to Pleasant Vlew Road. Down behlnd Pat Cunnlngham's and right out where Lake Lucy ls. My contention has been to the Lake Lucy people is, that if we let this extension go through, it's going to create more trafflc and now lt's golng to be more trafflc that's going to come on Nez Perce Drive, Pleasant View Road and also just the extra spillage that's golng to come on Lake Lucy. So when the questlon comes up about we're never going to extend. We never think we're going to widened Pleasant View Road. We've gone through that. The residents that have been here, we've gone through that before. I thought this was an impossible situation then and this was already in my mlnd. At that time, if I remember rlght, was okayed by the city and the Metropolitan and it was because alt the homeowners came out, and even the developer was agalnst lt, of Near Mountain, that we defeated that purpose. You know, tonight the statement was made that this lsa Frank 8eddor lssue and I don't thlnk lt's a Frank Beddor lssue. I don't feel I'm standlng up here alone tonight. We have the petition signed by 202 homeowners on Pleasant Vlew Road and Nez Perce Drive and Vlneland and I don't thlnk that lt's just Frank 8eddor. I believe that I'm representing a lot of other homeowners who feel the same way I do. And I would 11ke to brlefly tell you how I envlslon what happened since 1989. Daryl, can you put. In 1989 the developer came with this plan, uhlch was two cul-de-sacs to develop that property. And the clty evidentally objected to this and you have to remember at this time ue did not own any of the other property. They wanted a cul-de-sac that comes up to the property and then a short one off Pleasant View Road. And then city staff came up ulth what we, the 4 plans you're talklng about and what they recommended was plan 4. And we violently opposed plan 4. Plan 4 connected a straight shot through Pleasant View and we were all here at that meetlng and what we recommended was 3, which ended up being 3A. And that was as shown up here on the plat, a cul-de-sac. Now we're talklng that we agreed to it and we sald fine. That I agreed to it. We accepted it. That this was the road and everybody from that polnt on was golng to ablde by thls road. Well, if that were true, you notice there's a blg cul-de-sac going up in here. That cul-de-sac ls not in there. What we were concerned obviously was, and we always have been, is the increased traffic. We voted for plan 3, not because we thought it was the best plan but it was certainly better than plan 4. So we sald, the people 111. City Co~.ncil Heet.~ng ~, Jlliy 12~ 1.993 ~,~hc) ~ere here, and it was ou'r'understanding that this was going to be looked at because nobody owned Troend!e's property. Nobody oL~ned art OL,Jens property. So to say tonight that 4 years ago or in 198~ this ~as a cut and dry deal, ~ don't feel that's accurate. Now Z was enthusiastlca!ly for 3~ ~ sent out a pet.trion for 3. ! got a lot of people here to ~ote for 3 because that was a lesser of t~,.~o evZZs. Then in lief'ch of '91 we purchased the Troendle property, and ~e did it a ~ittle dlfferent1y again than the c~tx recommended. You know Pleasant Yie~ ~oad has a character and it always has had the character of ~, 2, 3, 4, 5 acre Zots and k~e've tried to keep it in that area. So we did not put the 7 or 8 lots u.i~ that showed Zn the cul-de-sac on the plat as presumably was okay then. sho~,~ed, we made one b~g lot on P~easant View Road of 2 acres, and then ~e took the TroendZe house and made that into a lot off Nez Perce Drive and one other one along s~de of it. and when ~e later purchased the ~rt Owens propertx~ ~,~as a mess. The pond was a mess. Zn going back through the history, this originally, that I found out~ ~as caused by the city t,~hen they put the se~er in in 1970. They cut off the drain. They didn't discover that until they put a water touter in in 1980 and then the city went out and corrected that problem t~.t. th Art Owens but by the time he was supposed to correct his part, the city did thelr part and he ~as supposed to correct hls part. He was in a bankruptcy so ~,~e ~,~anted to go J..n and clean that area out. k~hat o.¢e did, t~e ended up 1n our plat w~th 3 lots on the south part and ~].. lots in the back. and out of those t,~e exchanged 3 of them o¢.tth the deveZoper of Vineland for the 3 that k~ere running ~n tandem from Nez Pefco to Pleasant V1e~,~. So then the remalnJ, ng t,¢e sold to a developer. Not, a homeowner, HichaeZ Holmes. ~nd then o,~e platted that and when ~.~e ~ent for the plat, it ~as recommended we only ha~,e 6. The plat t,~as okayed. Not 1. Zke Lt was in 1989. Not ~ith the big cul.-de-sac. Not ~¢Zth or 8 more lots up in the south but there was 3 on one end, on the north end and there t4as 1Z on the back, 8 of which we ended up w.tth and sold. art O~¢ens had his property platted way back in ~8~ and he sho~Jed 1n thls front property, ~,~hZch the city appro~ed 5 lots on Pleasant Ylew. ~e dZd a lot of research and kJe ].ooked, we talked k¢lth art O~ens and unfortunately ~rt O~ens ~as caught up in a bad bankruptcy proceedZng wlth the government, t4hich in my opinion t4as the result of art Owens standlng up for h~s rellglous beliefs and the go~ernment kind of took hZm to task. That may be a dlfferent item. But we purchased the 3 acres of art Owens and then ~,Jhen kJe looked at puttlng in 5 lots, we found that the cost to br'1ng those Zots. To dZg down, get r~d o'~ a].~ that muck, it's kind o'r in a k~etland area. To bring 1t Ltp to the rlght height ~¢ould cost about $70,000.00 per Zot. So then ~.~e explored the possibil.tty of t0~o .tots and ~¢e did get a permit for grading and ~¢e kept in m~nd that there was a poss&blllty sorr~eday that thls cou. Zd come through. [,~eZ.[, it took 2 years of negotiating wi_th a~-'t Owens to get th&s cleared golng through the bankruptcy court. During thls peri. od of tZme Z ksas Znformed by my iega1 counseZ that Lot 5, Lot 5 i.s the whole 3 acre 1ot. That Lot 5 kJas one lot and ~e ~ould not have to go to the clty to pJ..¢Jt tt~at if ~e ~anted to just get a buildZng permZt to bu~td one house, and ~¢e looked at it. ~e thought ~e11, that rea11x makes more sense for just havlng one ho~lse there. [,~e never thought seriousZy that the, t4hlch Z certainZx t,~as that the city ~.~ould e~er thlnk of condemnlng prlvate property for an lnterp1at use and have to use taxpayers funds v~hen Zt doesn't serve the whoZe comm[tnity. HokJe~er, ~,Je dld grade the property. ~e got a permit for that. Then thJ. ngs took a IZttte brZghter ].ook. at Zeast in my m~nd. See but e~el- since 1989 Z said there's got to be a better ~,¢ay to develop all this property rather than brlnglng excess traffic back through PZeasant ~JZew and Nez Pefco because any connectlon's going to ~ncrease ~t. So we came up ~,Jith a ptan which would be to take, go up City Council lJeeting - July 12, 1993 the driveway and go right back out Lake Lucy Road. And this would give 13 lots and I said well, we're in the right direction, t think if we can think long enough we can come up with a solution. However, after looking at that, there was 3 pitfalls of this so we never brought this to the City. One was that the grade was too steep. That we were told going up Lake Lucy. Second, it did not help the Lake Lucy people because it did not get rid of the traffic that comes onto the Troendle. But the third one was that you would have to tear out a lot of trees to go up the driveway to Art Owens. So then we took a good took at those trees and where the proposed development is now, still that development we had, the same thing still holds true. If you look, going up this driveway, the yellow is where the driveway presumably is and the white is the outside of that driveway. This is going up the driveway. The next one is looking from the driveway going back down. And the third one that we researched is, we went back and counted all those trees and measured all those trees then we found that there was between 20 to 33 trees going up that driveway and some of those trees are 60 to 80 years old and to 100 years old. That was one of the reasons why we never came back to the Council with this plat going straight thru. We thought, at one point I thought that was an answer because out of 13 lots, Pleasant View would take half of them. Lake Lucy would take half of them and we'd eliminate the connection. So we did not, we were looking at purchasing Art Owens southern property but we felt his asking price was too high because what we wanted to do was to leave his driveway alone. Come up to his house and make two big lots and possibly maybe develop 7 lots in the back, exiting on Lake Lucy. This didn't seem to be feasible from the standpoint of a cost standpoint so we did not purchase the property. Then a nice young guy named Jeff bought the property. He came to you with a plat and we met with Jeff. We met with him in our office and we had a visit with him and he told us that he was not really concerned about the road. He didn't want to get involved in the road issue. So I said, well do you have any other suggestions? So we looked at this, this is the board we calk the problem. The way the road's going through. He said well rather than coming up that driveway, he said maybe I'd-like to come across your property and turn in and come off Nez Perce Orive. Leave the road where it is but come up through this area and not come up on the other slde. So that was a good ldea. Zt saved all the trees but it didn't answer the one question about additional trafflc. So Jeff left and Jeff no more left and Z thought, my lord. Daryl, there's something we ought to check out. We're always talking about Lake Lucy for 4 years and that, that lt's too steep and what is lt? 8~ or 9~ that's too steep. Z said why don't you go over there and check that grade for me. And he did and the next day he came back. The next day and sald to me, that the grade golng up Lake Lucy is only 5.3~. The grade going up Nez Perce Orive going in the way we're proposing it ls 5.5~ and the grade golng up the way that the clty is agreeing to, or the developer wants it going up Owens is 10.5~. So now delighted. I sald now we've got a real win-win-win-win situation. We could wln for the city because they don't have to condemn the property. The homeowners of Nez Perce Drlve and the homeowners of Pleasant Vlew won't have any addltio.nal traffic. We have a l~in situation for the developer. He gets 14 lots lnstead of 13. And in my opinlon, we had a wln situation for the Lake Lucy people because anybody that lives in Art Owens or Troendles is golng to come down Lake Lucy and then take a left go rlght up lnto the area. So we thought that thls solution ~as great. And Z said Oaryl, I said Jules, we just thought of this a short tlme, a week before thls meetlng so when people say they have explored these possibilities, saw Lake Lucy before, I have never seen any plans for that myself. So maybe, Z'm sure somebody has but I suddenly thought we had an 13 City Cou, nci.]~ Hee~ing --~ Ju, Jy .1_2~ !793 original thought. I ~as all excited about having this solution so I said, go over to the Counc.i. 1 and tell them t,~e've got. a ~in.~,~.[r,~,~in~J.n situation. So thief did~ and ~ couldn't ba there and the conclusion~ they came back. Nobody ~vr~n ~anted to lJ. sten to the solution, or they'd J..istel~ to it but .instead, r.)~'opertF's condemned. No~,~, I'm not dishearten because ~e have another solution. after that ~ happen to run into art Ot,Jens and Art said you kno~,~ there's ol'ie thing Frankie t don't !ike about Four proposal and that is that it comes too c!ose to mX house. So I said okay~ that's a good concer'n. So I kJent back and I said to baryl~ I said ~hal if ~arilyn and I sacrifice one of 'these lols~ The ~,~ay the city ~,~ou!d ~ord ~hat ~,~ould be 'to dedicate tha-t~ Uhat if 0~e dedicate 'that. Kind of 11ke~ it's kind of like C11n'ton you kno~d. You're not going to pax more taxes. You're going to have a little sacrifice here. So he ~,Jent back and came across Lot ? and came back out this ~dax. The de~eioper stitl gets J.o~s. 1.2 p!US the house and Z saLd, kJe're riot 90,i.~g to have to take any trees do~n on eit her end so ~ thought t hat ~,~as t he best deal. No~d~ t he reason h~:re ton&ght ~s, and Z appreciate your time and Four efforts to 1et me speak tonight. First~ ~ don~t feet that th~s is a Frank geddor issue. ~ don't feel that X euer s&gned a contract or said yes, ~ absolutely agree that this is going to go through, and it probably is a little d~sheartening to me to think that you b~ould sLgn a con(tact ~,Jith sol, cone 11kc Uineland and put it .in that he not fight back. ~nd a year afterk.~ards Z buy the property, xhx ~asn't that put ~.n mx contract. Ue've been trying to keep, ~Je'~e been trying to stay, not th~s one BarF1. Let's see, ~'11 leave that one on. So ~hat ~'m asking tonight of the Council is for you to, yeah~ Is for you just to rethink or to give another chance and go back and take a took. ~t ~das 4 Fears ago that dec&sion ~as made. No(,~ &sn't there anybody here that made a decision 4 years ago and ~ater, noLhing k~as happened, they made another decision and found the better decision [or i't. So Z'rn officially asking tonight that the, and X'm requesting, respectful, ix requesting, that the city of Chanhassen do the follo~,~ing. Order a ?reparation of a.n update or a feasibLlitX study ~hich ~ould add Lake Lucy option t~o it because before ~,~e had t~o options. 3 and 4 and 'no~ kJe have a third one. ~and you knot,~ in that you could inct. ude the total cost~ Zncluding the land acquisition. The ne~,~ o~nership interest. The differe'nce between ~dhat ~dould happen if in Pea. ceful Lane or if you (gent up south of Lake Lucy. ~hat the impact on tree removal k~ould be~ The i~pact on the slopes. The storm sek~er issue. But even more important than that, and before that's done, I think ~,~ould be ~ise if the city on their o~n ~ou].d prepare an environmental assessment ~,~orksheet. This ~,~ou!d a. nalxze the traffic. That's the traffic on Lake Lucy and the traffic on Pleasa-nt Uiek~. You kno~d since 4 years ago there's a lot of people that moved in. There's some Council people here that ~,~eren't there 4 years ago. They could look at the safety of the t'raffic issue and the pollutJ, on, tl~e tree removal and the t,Jetla, nd Lmpact. Ba. rlene, can t have those. This is ~hat X'l, requesting, kJould you bring me up those, ldaxor, pass those out to each of the me~bers there, l~r. tdaxor, Z've given you all the orig&nal copies of the petition and ~'ve given everybody else here a type ~r/tten copy, a!phabet' "' zzed, there are 202 residents in ~his area ~ho are all taxpayers, kJho are all voters and they are homeok~ners ~ho feel the same ~ay ~e do and ~ do not feel that this is a Frank Beddor ~ssue, and Z do I~ot feel that Z stand alone. feel that ! have the support and ~'~ ~ust 1 of 200 that are standing here tonight and ! {,~ould hope that the Council ~,~ould 1~sten to the overkJhelming, the voice of the over~helming major,tx. Thank you very much: !.4 City Council Meeting - July 12, 199~ Mayor Chmiel: Thank you. I just dldn't want this to take up much more time ~ith all the applause. I'd like to ask Council for any of this reconsideration and I'd 11ke to start wlth Mark. Mark, do you have any comments or questions that you may have regarding this? Councilman Senn: I don't know, I wasn't here I guess 4 years ago when all this came up one way or the other. The thing that strikes me the most about it is that, from everything I've now recelved and read I know' 50 some letters and 50 some phone calls I think. There was a lot of information to be had. The thing that strikes me the most out of it is, is that there's really an apparent safety problem on Lake Lucy Road. You go took at Lake Lucy Road and it's kind of hard to dlsagree ~Jith that premlse or that assumption. A lot of trafflc moves through there and it moves through there at a pretty good clip. At the same tlme I look at it and I say, well the solutlon for Lake Lucy Road lsn't to move the problem. Or split the problem. Or to redefine the problem. And then I get back to looklng at the overall lssue of should the extension go through or shouldn't it. I'm not prepared tonight to say whether the extension should go through or shouldn't go through. I don't think I have anywhere near enough information to make that judgement tonight. I hoped to spend some time with Charles thls week before the meetlng but he's on vacatlon so that klnd of made that impossible. From a traffic standpoint it seems to me that, there are trafflc controls and there are ways to control trafflc. There's ways to reduce speeds and there's ways to reduce trafflc through a given area. The ultimate solutlon here may be the extension. But elther way if you look at the amount of traffic going through that area, I think ultimately not only the extension is the issue but also what safety controls or what trafflc controls are you golng to put into place to assure that you don't grade or further exasperate a bad safety condition. And I'm not sure I'm always on the same slde as staff ls that way because I'm not as opposed to cul-de-sacs as they are and I'm not as opposed to what I'm golng to call trafflc safety measures or trafflc battlers as I thlnk staff is. I would really 11ke to look further into the issue and really make sure that we solve a traffic safety problem and not create another one. That's what I guess I look at the real issue as being. You know not whether a street is extended or not. In looklng at that, I don't know if all the alternatives again have been looked at or not. I mean I've had a quick couple of weeks to read a lot of memorandums and letters but again I wouldn't say that's anywhere near adequate to make a decision. $o from that standpoint I guess I'd like a 11ttle more tlme to look at it and to see some of the alternatives. Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Rlchard. Councilman Wing: Is this a lottery? Mayor Chmiel: I declded I'd move it around a little. Councilman Wing: Well I was on record back when all this occurred as supporting what we did, having been on the Councll at that time. But I also was very protective of Pleasant Vleu Road and lt's future and lt's aesthetics and it's a horse trail. I think calling it a poorly designed horse and cart trail but I'd 11ke to keep it that way because that's one of my major thoroughfares for jogging and running and biking, especially in the fall months. So I'm certainly not ant1 Pleasant glew but thls thing's a11, some of the comments tonight, you know where was I? t attended ai1 of the Planning Commission 15 City Ceunci.]_ ~'ieeti. ng ,, Juicy L2, 1993 meetings. I attended all the Council meetings. I haven't missed any. Looked a~. ~.~.[J.. the alternatiYes and the facts as I remember them, the issues that occurred as I remember them~ to the best of mx abilitx~ don't coincide with the comments that were rnade tonight and the pet.trion ~ith 250 names is ~onde'rfuZ if the facts that went into that petition are accurate, and I won't attest to thc. t, whether kt's right or wrong but I do kno~ that, you kllOW Z~V8 gOt thks pile of Letters, Like we aLL have and here's half from th~s side. Here's half from this skde. ~nd they're ,~i.~ 100% diametrically opposed which means there's t~,,~o real hard core positions here. So now 1t's up to us. We're elected to make some decks/OhS based on facts and deai. ing t,¢kth some issues arm one half at some poii~t's going to be mad and one half ks going to be happy. Z voted with the unanimous Planning Commission and I voted with the [trianimous Coul]ci]~ at that time to go ahead with the option ~e selected, and ~e looked at options !, 2, d, 5. I mean a].! of thel,, t,1e looked at north, south, east, west, up, dot~n. Oioi-ng straight thru and to call this a collector road ~s inappropriate. I think this is a neighborhood connecting road. It's got a lot of tut'ns and c~'rves in it. It's not going straight thru to anyplace, tt comes off Nez Perce and makes a i~ard turn. Goes up, makes a hard tL~Fll. Winds around. Hakes a hard turn. Tine:It's 'not a collector street, and the issue of Pleasant ¥iew Road at that time ~i~,:..l tonight Lo me rema~l'ls a~rilost a separate issue. The impact of this, regardless of what we do. Whether ~e make this a U and it goes onto Lake Lucy. th~:-~ i~pact is ma. ss~ve. So t,~hether we go up to Pleasant Uiew. No one can tell me what the impact's going to be because we looked at the traffic counts and the traffic studies back then and ~Je looked at ho~ ~any cars were going to be ~oving · north~ south and the predicted road movements. And the issue came up, it's going to be coming from the east and the west, not the north and the south. This isn't a major collector going from one point to another that's going to be the major road,, So i.f ~ was asked right now to reviet,~ this, based on all the ~,,~ork~ we went through and the Planning Commission went through before~ I think t,~e'i"'e asking ourselves what's new. ~hat are {,~e rev.i, ewing? k~e've already gone over all this. On the other hand~ if the majority of Council wants a little more time, Z can a!so accept sendlng it back to the PJ..annirlg Commission and this proposed ne~,~ idea. ~nd this isn't a proposed new idea to me. It's just oJ_(] i]ews that we're beLng asked to re¥iew again. Zfa review is appropriate, t have no problem with that. ~e've looked at Lake Lucy as being a dangerous situation. Ouote you know. There's been no accidents there, t,Je'ue .Looked at Pleasant V:te~,). ~r. Harr's reviewed the accident history there in depth. "Lha. ngerous r'oad" ~ won't denx that. ~ge've said that. on many other roads. i,,~hat are we going to do about it? But ~hat's the Plant, lng Co~mission going to do'7 Come back ~,~ith the same recommendation? Or are they going to come up with a new recommendation based on...informati, on so I don't know if we're wasting time or not. But if this is a very heated issue, I think the residents on this side deserve to be heard, ~aybe in a little ~ore established manner and this g~-ou.p aj. lowed once agai. n to present thej. r case- ~nd if there's anything nel,~ !?93~ so be it. I guess I would stay ~ith that. i'layor Chmiel: Okay, thank you. Colleen. {]ouncilwoman Oockendorf: I ~,las ~,~ondering which ~,Jay you'd go. Well there are .iu. st volumes here and Z'v~.} tried to catch up on the history and Z can plead innocence to being here when the decisions were made but~ I've weeded through ti'~e, volumes and there are some, T..'ve tried to gather aJ_l the salient points but there are a lot of exterraneous issues here which I think really fuddle it up. City Council Meeting - July 12, 1993 The way I see it there are two related but really separate lssues. You definitely have a safety problem. That's come through with everyone I've talked to. Every letter I've read. And then we have the road extension. I guess I'm not, a lot, a lot of time and effort has been put into this extension by staff. By the Council. By all the residents and by Mr. Beddor. Llke Richard, I'm not sure what's 9oin9 to be accomplished by looking into it more. I guess I'm, you know I've been out there several, 7-8 times in the last week. Drivlng the speed limit and walking it, and you know I'm not a planner but it just makes sense to continue that road. Just as much as it makes sense that people will not be using that to cut through. If you come up, if you're going north on Nez Perce, it's very unnatural to turn and continue to go on Nez Perce. You're 9oing to shoot out Lake Lucy, unfortunately because we do need some, we have some safety concerns there and we do need some traffic control, which I would recommend that we look into as opposed to relookin9 at this extension issue. So I guess I'm not ready to look at, to send it back down and look at it again. I think the Council has moved on it. I think we do need to look at the safety issues. I think it's worth looking at and making it where Lake Lucy and Nez Perce connect, maybe doing a 3 way stop there, gust as much as where Peaceful Lane and Pleasant View connect to make that a definite T to tighten that up, which I understand is the plan. The only thing that I think people are still uncertain about that it hasn't been addressed yet tonight is the cost, because I think there was some misinformation sent out about who's going to be paying for this extension. Paul, if you could expound on that. Paul Krauss: We received some information that preported to give data on the cost of the roadway. The only information that we have is in the feasibility study that was done for the City Council. That does not take into account right-of-way costs, which is obviously significant. But the cost as I recall was $127,000.00. I might also add that, as we're on the subject of the feasibility study, that the feasibility study that was prepared by an engineer working for you shows a grade of 5 ~/2~ on the Nez Perce connection, not 10~ whlch was illustrated earller. Councilwoman Oockendorf: Yeah, you can go out there and look at it. Paul Krauss: But the cost of right-of-way is a significant issue and with the action to go to condemnation, that will tell you what the cost of the property ls. z don't have any additional information. Councilwoman Dockendorf: Right, but the crux of the issue ~ thlnk for most of the people here ls, wlll they be assessed and the answer ls no. Zs that correct? Paul Krauss: Well again, you never, I thlnk you received the feasibility study but you didn't approve it or whatever you need to do. You didn't order the project so we can only conjecture as to what may or may not be assessed. Z mean clearly the Troendle Addition has already paid a share and as Frank mentioned, it was anticipated. You know Frank's share was theoretically for the connection from the end of Owens' parcet down Peaceful Lane. The re,son for that being is we always assumed we would get the plece across Owens parcel for free. The same way ~s we got it across Vineland and the same way we got it across Troendle. So in terms of who mlght be assessed, Z mean it was always clear that there was an 17 City Counc.f]_ /'!ee'ting -- ~t,].y ,t2.., L793 assurr~p'tion that when the O~,~ens parcel developed, that that ~ould [)ear it's fair shat,,} o'[ cost. Mayor Chmiel: Thanks Paul. Council,,~oman bockendorf: Oust one more comment. Sorry, about the trucks and speed issues. I live in a r, eighborhood that is still being developed and I fin(] th¢:~t most of the safety issues and the speeding vehicles are construction. And ;f car, only say hopefully that t,¢ill go at,,,ay soon. That's just been my personal e. xpe'r'ience ~,~ith ~.0ho drives too fast. l'!ayor Chmiel: Not necessarily. Z've sat on that road many, t4ell I shouldn't say many times. Z've sat on there a couple different times ~,¢ith a radar gun observing speeds and t,,~riting dot,~n license plates. I've heard this through the grapevine that has come back to me and said, if that's all he's got to do it's a shame butt that's part of my responsibility to do. Because z get the complaints. I'm the guy that gets them on the phone and by letters and Z do ~,~ant you to know that yeah, there has been some of those v'ehic]_es on that road that has exceeded the speed limit. But .~,¢ith writing do~¢n the license numbers and checking those license numbers, .T,.'ve found that almost ~)8~, of those are from that area. And I .just ~,¢anted to make sure that Z made that particular. Audience: .Question. Iflayo'r Chmiel: No question. I'm not entertaining any qLtestio'ns at this ~:articu.t. ar time. I'm still talking ~¢ith the Council and I'm just making a statement that I have made. I've done this in other neighborhoods as ~oell ~ohere !'ye received complaints and I've done that. Over and over. And t knot,¢ .,~here it's at and it's rlorr.~al!y ~,~ithin that same specific area~ Councilman t,Jing: Mell lflr', l'layor, just before ~,¢e get off that. Having served for !0 years on the Public Safety Commission and having done a minimum of 3 of those traffic studies, Z t~ouLd just concur that your statement .ts ~00~, accurate.. Xn one case 'the State High,,Cay Patrol on High,ay ? stated if the local residents ~,~ou..]..d simply si.o~ down and stop tailgating, you'll resolve >;our problem on l-ligh~oay ?. Zn every case that ~,¢e studled, the 10 years Z ;~as on the Public Safety Commission, not once did t,¢e find the probl, em to be t41th the outside traf'fic. Zt ~,¢as local residents in all cases. Documented. Documented cases. Cou. ncilwoman Oockendorf: t4ell then t stand corrected. That's been my observation in my neighborhood but, if that is what you're saying, the case, then Z r'emember sitting at that. podium Last year and getting publicalLy berated by Mr. Hayor about our neighbors driving too fast in our neighborhood and ~ gu. ess you're r,tght. Mayor Chmiel: Unfortunately. Council~¢omar~ Oockendorf: Yeah, it's unfortunate.. ~1at/or Chmiel: Michael. COLtncilman Mason: A little history I guess. I've been driving on Pleasant V.[el,.~, t,~e.].l .T.'ve been married for 14 year's and she t,,~as essentially born and 18 City Council Meeting - July 12, 1993 raised off of, on Yosemite off of Lake Lucy Road on the other side of Powers Boulevard. So I'm very familiar with Pleasant View. I live on Woodhill Orive, about 4 houses down from Nez Perce. And I've been there for 7 years. When I moved into Carver Beach there were 2 homes on Woodhi11 Orlve. There are now 9 homes. Lake Lucy Road dld not exlst. The connection was not there. None of those homes were there. Vlneland was somebody's dream. Troendle wasn't there. The only connection was Pleasant Vlew. I was appalled when I came back from a 2 week vacatlon to see that the 5 acres down my hill had essentially been plowed over and golng to get developed. Woodh111 Orlve went from about oh, seriously maybe 4 cars a day to I don't know, maybe 15-20 cars a day. To me it was a lot. It still is. I wish there were just 4 cars there. There aren't. And I can't do anything about that. Richard, Don and myself were on Councll when all thls came by. I was initially opposed to a connection golng through there. Z thought you know geez, that's awfully close to me. I just, personally Z don't want it. I'm seelng my neighborhood get developed. It doesn't make any sense to me. As I've said before, Z have to weigh what I think is in the best lnterest of the clty. Now I appreciate the work that Mr. Beddor has put lnto thls and 202 signatures ls qulte a few. Make no mlstake. It certainly is a majority of people on Pleasant Vlew. I take a 11ttle lssue wlth the newer residents on Vineland complaining about the traffic simply because they've been there 6 months or a year, whatever and clearly development ls part of the problem here. There's precious little we can do about that. After talking wlth neighbors and after receiving the volumes and volumes of letters, and I have talked ulth people on Nez Perce that are both in favor and not in favor of that extension. So some people in that area I think are a 11ttle up in the alr about it. I have trouble reconsidering this. I thlnk we've spent an awful lot of time on it. know there are unhappy people. I'm sure that the people on Pleasant Vlew think they have continuously taken it on the chin, and I know from drivlng on that road for 14-15 years now, itls busier than it was. Z questlon that people that llue say in Near Mountain, if they're coming into Chanhassen, are they going to go the quarter mlle on Pleasant Vlew and get on TH 101 or are they golng to wlnd around on Pleasant View, come through on Nez Perce and then zip by my house. That isn't how I'd do it and some people probably don't thlnk I'm the norm but I thlnk I'm a 11ttle closer than that. We'll see. I thlnk we declded a number of years ago to go through wlth thls and yes, there are tlmes to reconsider. Certainly I've changed my mind on thlngs that happened 4 years ago. Whlle as understand that there are many people that clalm, and I dlsagree wlth them that thls does not serve their best interest. Z thlnk in the long run it does serve the best lnterest of the clty and there are tlmes I thlnk lt's unfortunate but my job is to do what I thlnk ls best for the city and I think not reconsidering at thls polnt ls in the best interest. I would, havlng sald all of that, I'd 11ke to get a real quick opinion from staff about what they think of an updated feasibility study. Paul Krauss: I'll be honest with you. I'm not sure that we have anythlng more we can give to thls issue. You know we've looked at it intensively and maybe we're even too close to it but my staff, the engineering staff has worked on thls extensively for 4 years. We had an outslde consultant give us a feasiblity study for the connection whlch says itls feasible. Z mean from a technical standpoint it's a relatively easy one to make, and there are cost considerations and others. The lssue of the Lake Lucy Road loop is one that can easlly be studled. It is in the report that Dave and I did 4 years ago. But we didn't study it in that much depth because it dldn't really seem to serve the purpose 19 City Council i'leeting- July 12, !993 at the 'time. If you did want to go with another study, I'm not exactly. I mean I would be real specific as to what your expectations are for information above ~:.nd beyond what you have. And I would also ask that you seek to bring someone from the outside who maybe could take a fresh run at it. I don't honesLly believe it's 9oin9 to add too much to the argument but if you wanted to do that, that's probably the (~ay to approach Mayor Chmiel: Thanks Paul. I guess it doesn't take too much reconsideration for- some of these things. As was mentioned previously, and I'm not going to reiterate much of the things that have already been said. But when we looked at this back at the time that it was proposed, I too thought that the solution that we proposed at that particular time was the best solution for everyone within the city~ You al~ays have to t~ke 'that in and look at that rea]~ strong. We're not infallible at all, believe me. We're just like you are in making decisions. You know even in your own home but what we think sometimes is right, basically comes up as right. Mr. beddor gave me a call and asked me to listen to what his pf"oposal was and at that time I said sure. I'll be more than happy to sit down with you and talk to you. But I said too that I felt that if he were to make that particular proposal, that all the people within that adjacent area would be in favor of what that proposal might be. And if there was some of that that was not, ~hen my position would be standing as it is right now. I'd like to take the time to study these things, but believe me we've gone back through and we've read and ~ead all the letters and I do appreciate all those letters of concern.. All except one or two that I had received. I don't think the Council, nor myself as an individual, should at any time take some of the "complete ignorant attitudes" concerning the connection of Nez Perce and Pleasant View Road. I don't get paid enough money to take those kinds of comments from people. I took this job because I thought I could do a job for the city the best I knew how, ,~;~nd it irritated me quite a little bit to see that. I think we try to do the best job we know how, and we work hard at it. So I'm ready to call a question in regards to 'this of whether or not we should consider additional study or not to ~econside~. And I would ask for a motion in regard to this at this specific time. Councilman Mason: Mr. Mayor, I would like to make a motion saying that no further consideration is needed on this subject. Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Is there a second? Councilwoman Oockendorf: I'll second that. Mayor Chmiel: It's been moved and seconded. Any other discussion? Richard. Councilman Wing: I'd just like to make a quick comment to clarify where we are here. I'm going to support the motion, but in doing so I want to make it real clear to everybody in the room tonlght that those of us sitting up here are not isolated government. We're you. We're neighbors. We're friends. We're acquaintances. We're taxpayers. We're residents of this city. We listened~ We've heard what everybody's said. We've tried to obtain the facts and then deal with the specific issue. And that is out- responsibility and we were e]..ected by you to be visionary and look to the long term best interest of the city. And I feel very comfortable on my part in supporting Mr. Mason's motion that we have in fact lived Up to those expectations. 2O City Council Meeting - July 12, 1993 Hayor Chmiel: Any other discussion? Mark. Councilman Senn: Z guess I don't see the urgency. Z don't see the rush. Zt seems to me ina democracy like thls, we have 200 people here that are agalnst something. We have 30 who live on Nez Perce. Again, Z can't say Z like necessarily Mr. Beddor's solutions that I've seen presented. I can't say that Z necessarily 11ke staff's either. Z thlnk there are alternatives and that's just from sitting down and playing on a piece of paper. I just don't see again the rush and why after 4 years we can't take another look and just make sure that it's the right way to 9o before we leap. Mayor Chmiel: Michael. Councilman Mason: I guess my comment to that would be, while as I understand that Councilman Senn and Councilman Oockendorf are "relative new" of what's golng on here. I don't see what I'm dolng tonlght as taklng a leap in any way whatsoever. To say that I haven't thought about this. To say that I haven't spent an awful lot of tlme talklng with people. Looklng for solutions myself, Z think ls not doing thls Council justice. We've been working on this concern for a number of years. Intensively for the last 2 or 3 months. Taklng actlon tonight is, in my opinlon, by no means a leap. Mayor Chmlel: With that I'll, any other discussion? I don't dlsagree with you about a democracy but democracy has been looked at a long tlme and I'm not going to expand on what Mlchael has sald. So if there are no other discussions from Council, I'll call a question. Councilman Hason moved, Councilwoman Dockendorf seconded that the City Council not reconsider the extension of Nez Perce Drive. All voted in favor, except Councilman Senn who opposed, and the motion carried with a vote of 4 to 1. (The City Councll took a short recess at this point in the meeting.) AWARD OF BIBS: JOHNSON/TURNER/DOLEJSI TRUNK UTILITY IHPROVEHENT PROJECT NO 92-5. Dave Hempel: Thank you Mr. Mayor and members of the Council. I'm kind of slttlng in for Charles here thls evenlng. He's on vacation. On Thursday, July 8th, 1993 blds were received and opened for the Johnson/Turner/Oolejsi trunk improvement project, Project No. 92-5. Total of 5 blds were recelved and the low bld being received was from Northdale Construction in the amount of $746,576.90. The engineer's estlmate for the project ls $810,000.00. The low bid received is approximately $160,000.00 below the project estimate. Northdale Construction Company has performed satisfactorily prevlous work in the clty.. Is therefore recommended that the City Council award the Johnson/Turner/Oolejsi Trunk Improvement Project No. 92-5 to Northdale Construction Company in the contract amount of $746,576.90. If there's any questions regarding the bids and so forth, Mr. Ph11 Gravel of Bonestroo and Associates ls here thls evenlng to answer those. Councilwoman Dockendorf: Dave, I think I have a real simple question. Where ls this? 21 (]it}/ ColJ, nci]. Meeting .... 3u, ly i2~ J. 993 i]ave Hempel: I"m sorry, this is located basically north of Trunk Highway 5, app'roxima, tely a qu. artex mile along Galpin Boulevard. Oust south of the Prince p'roperty. Councilwoman Dockendorf: Gotcha. Thank you. Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Any other questions? Councilman Senn: Now what portion of this is assessment? Oave Hempel: That's correct. Councilman Senn: Alt assessment? Mayor Chmie]_: Al! of it, yeah. All of it's assessed back to the adjacent properties, ldy only question that I had too with thls ls, we've had dealings with this construction company before wlthin the city and they've performed satisfactorily. Dave Hempe]..: That's correct Mr. Mayor. Mayor Chmiel: Good. Okay. If no other questions. Councilman Mason: I'd move approval. Mayor Chmiel: is there a second? Councilman Senn: Sure Resolut£on ~93-~3.: Councilman Mason moved, Councilman Senn seconded that the City Council award the Johnson/Turner/Oolejsi Trunk Improvement Project No. 92-5 to Northdale Construction Company in the contract amount of $74~,57~90. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. Councilman Mason: Hr. Mayor, if I could. I had somebody come up from the Vineland Addition rather upset because they, and perhaps what I said about the Vineland Addition was not said how I meant. ~ had no intention of inpuning anyone's integrity on Vineland and I did comment to the person that I would make that statement as soon as possible. So I just wanted to clear that up. NON-CONFORMING USE PERMIT FOR MINNEWASHTA MANOR HOMEOWNERS RECREATIONAL - BEACHLOT. Kate Aanenson: This beachlot went before the Planning Commission twice. The first time it went throu, gh it was unclear as to who was representing the association whether or' not there was a cohesive effort or understanding of what the association wanted. In addition, the Planning Commission looked at maybe considering vacating the street because it's really a paper street and the beachlot's under water. I11 reviewing that and with the advice of the City Attorney, we really ended up kind of complicating the matter and what we're r'eaJ, iy trying to do is establish the level of use. The beachlot's bas,tcally been under water for a number of years. ~t was maybe the year it was platted it wa. sn't> which was back in 1~47. ~t's always been under ~ater. They've always 22 City Council Meeting - July 12, 1993 used it in that way so really we're going to ignore that fact and the Planning Commission felt like that, trying to vacate the street and recreate something there really wasn't necessary at this point. What we're really trying to do is establish the level of use back in 1981. One of the main concerns was from the property owner to the north, Mr. Pfeffer who had an L shape in front of his dock and he was concerned about looking out and having that, that channel was dredged as part of the Minnewashta. The channel was dredged and not all the way to the beachlot. And so in order for the members of the association to get enough depth, they put the additional L on. They've agreed to remove that L portion. I think that meets with Mr. Pfeffer's concerns and so the Planning Commission recommended the one dock, 40 feet in length and concurred with the 5 boats at the dock. That's all I had on that. Mayor Chmiel: Okay, thank you. Is anyone here from the homeowners association? From Minnewashta Manor. Art Kimber: My name's Art Kimber. Mayor Chmiel: Yes sir. Could you please come up to the microphone so we can get that recorded. If you stand there it won't pick it up. Art Kimber: Art Kimber. I'm a member of the association. I'm not an officer. And I filed the petition that Kate just mentioned. I've been there 27 years and I'm familiar with what went on in '81. We've paid taxes on that lot from 1947 until 1983, and the taxes went from $1,500.00 to $?,400.00. I protested. They took it up at the County and we were notified that inasmuch as the lot was under water, so was the roadway, that it, I don't know if they said navigable water but they confiscated it. And we felt that's the only access we have. We've been using the road since 1982 when Bill Monk and Tom was there. And they made an agreement at that time, there was a proposal for vacating the roadway and they gave us the right to use the roadway in effect as a beachlot. Or access and we were allowed to place a dock out to where our lot was next to it. And that's the reason we're trying to get the same consideration now. Mayor Chmiel: Okay, thank you. Art Kimber: There's 32 families that use that access. Mayor Chmiel: Good, thank you. Is there anyone else? Seeing none, I'll bring it back to Council. Why don't I start on this end this time. Councilman Wing: I have no problem with that. I'd just like to know if Mr. Klmber or Mr. Pfeffer could specifically tell us in black and whlte what occurred there in '81. Exactly in '81, what's your precelved use of that? And I know lt's a long way back. The speclflc questlon of was there a dock? Were there boats? Art Kimber: A dock has been there. Not this dock but a dock...in 1989. But there was a dock there in '81. Councilman Wing: How many boats would you say were there? Art Kimber: We had 10 boats... 23 Council Meelc~ng -~ J-u.J..F J_2~ i993 Councilman Uing: The only other question I ~Jould have is, I was over there and you don't have a very nice beachloi. 8ox that is really a mess. A'r~. Kimber: You can ~hank Mr~ Pfeffer for that. Councilman Uing: Well~ I~m just saying overall tha~ er,~ire channel is so infested wi~h milfoil~ i~s really ~reacherous. I~s unfortuna~e~ I should have rephrased that. I was -refer'ring to the milfoi]., situation. tart Kimber: ...had that cut several times and Mr. Pfeffer... COl. Jlnc,~.lman Wing: Mr. Pfc'Fret, my only question to you is, having been over there I think there k~ef"e 2 oF 3 boats there yesterday. 37 Are you, it appears 1.,::~ me in the Minutes that you t4ere comfortable and could live with 5. k.l~'rb Pfeffer: That's kChat the recommendation calls for and I'm agreeable. COUiqcitBaB Uing' Okay, that's fine. Counci!(,~oman Doc<endorf: And the removal of the L. CouJqci~Ban Uing: Pardon? Councilk~oman Bockendorf: And the removal of the L. Councilman Uing: ~eil, the motion at the Planning commission was that the L stay. Kate Aanenson: No. !t was removed. Remove the L. Counci.Lman Senn: It says go to a 40 foot dock. Councilman ~ding: Oh okay. Kate Aa'henson' ~ ~as just going to add one other thing and that ~¢as that the Planning Commission did recommend too, at the end of the season that instead of storing the boats on site, that they be removed off s}te. Councilman Uing: Right. Okay. Kate Aanenson: That ~,¢ould help clean it up a little. Councilman bJing: I don't have any problem with that. Councilman senn: I'm trying to understand something there. I mean 1 read thr'ough this and it talked about boats being stored on land. It talked about boats being stored there over the winter but then at the same time ~ turn around and read this thing's under water. I mean I don't. Kate Aanenson: ...of the beachlot. The street is a dead end,. Art Kimber: The road's under water. 24 City Council. Meeting - July 12, 1993 Councilman Senn: But the beachlot's under water? Art Kimber: 90 some feet of it's under water. 60 feet of road and Kate Aanenson: What they're using for the beachlot is the end of the city's right-of-way which Ls Sandpiper Lane which is an unimproved street. So it actually functions as a. Councilman Senn: Okay, so that's actually their's, not. Kate Aanenson: Well it's the city's property. They're using it and we said they've always used it and the Plannlng Commission concurred that it makes sense for them to contlnue to use lt. The street w111 never go anywhere because as it gets to this polnt right here, it's all under water...It was platted in 1947. It's never been above water. It's never been bullt. It never w111 be bullt. Councilman Senn: Okay. So it's kind of like a land swap so to speak. Art Kimber: ...lt was dry. I moved out here in '65 and it was pretty dry up in there. Councilman Senn: Are we doing a land swap? Kate Aanenson: No. They've used the city's right-of-way and we feel comfortable allowing them to continue. We have a sewer easement down there and we may need to get down there. Storm water. We dld look at vacating Lt but it became very complicated as to who would get the right-of-way if it was vacated. Would we then be taking away the rlghts of the association and we really felt iike what we're trylng to do with thls process ls just establish a level of use and if sometime in the future they want to look at vacating, that we take that through a different process. Councilman Senn: So the update to the update ls the one to follow? Kate Aanenson: Correct. Because it went to the Planning Commission twice. Look on the last page. Councilman Mason: When did the Planning Commission declde to take the L out because. Kate Aanenson: June 16th. Last page. Councilman Mason: But on these notes it says, I don't... Kate Aanenson: Take the L out? Councilman Mason: Well, Scott moved, Hancino seconded be permitted one dock 40 feet in length wlth a 10 foot L sectlon, 5 boats at the dock, no vehlcle access and no boats stored on land. Audience: Yeah, that's my recollection. 25 Cil? Cou. nci].. Heeling-~ .]u!y i2, i993 Kate Aanenson: Z thought J.t w. as removed. That's what Z took notes for b~hile t l~ey ~,.~er,'_! 'talking~ Council~oman Dockendorf' So ~e have a discrepanc? bet~een ~hat the Planning .Con~missLon said and. KaLe Aanenson: Was it your u'nderstanding that the L was to be removed? Art Kimbe'r: He agreed to remove the L. Kate Aanenson: That's ~hat my understanding ~as that they agreed to it and that's t,~hat Mr. Pfeffer ~,~anted. That was my understanding. I don't think the I-iinutes re~lect it. accurately Art Kimber made a statement from the audience. Councilman Hason: And you're okay ~,~ith the L going? Art Kimber: He agreed..~ Councilman Mason: Hell I should say you agreed to it. Okay. Okay, because t cou.!drl't~ as I ~a.s going back and forth here, okay. alrigh't~ Councilman Wing: I ~ould just move Plar, ning Commission recommendation as stated with concurrence of these gentlemen that it's been agreed to. OD I have to read I. hese off? Hayor Chmiel: No. Not if you indicate what 'the Plannlng Commission update is and if you'd just only add on au. ne 16, 1~9$. COL, ncilman Hing: 16th, 1993 and the understanding is that the L ~ill be removed. S boats. Councilkloman Oockendorf: I'il second that. Mayor Chmiel' Any other discussion? Councilman Wing moved, Counciiwoman Dockendorf seconded that the Hinne~ashta Hanor Non-Conforming Recreational Beachlot be approved with one dock, 40 feet length, 5 boats on the dock and no vehicle access. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. RECONSIOERATION OF PRELIHINARY PLAT, BOLEY SUBDIVISION~ LOCATED SOUTH OF LAKE ST. JOE AND NORTH OF HIGHWAY 5, LUNDGREN BROTHERS. Kate Aanenson: This is reconsideration of the Boley plat. Back in February the City Council gave preliminary plat approval. One of the conditions of approval at that time was the property located in the clty of Vlctorla get approval. The Pial'~nil-lg Commission and the City Council has looked at this. Let me give you a fax that came to me th~s afternoon from the C~ty PLanner of U~ctor~a raising some concerns t,¢kth the staff report. T' c ~e ondition ~e had in here, number 12 ti'mat all the subdivision have approval and u~e have met ~lth Victoria. The city staff has met with their city staff in looking at how these issues can be 26 City Council Meeting - July 12, 1993 resolved...all these lots, we're talking about a few specific lots that fall into the jurisdiction. If you look at the plat, it's in Chanhassen rlght here. The lots that we're talklng about specifically, where they would fall, thls ls the city line. As you recall, this is also in the shoreland district of a natural environmental lake so the mlnlmum lot size klcks up to 20,000 so you have a little blt different standard there. So besides having to be larger lots, the rears would fall lnto the jurisdiction of Victoria. They had a concern and felt llke they didn't want to approve it and the letter that came from Blll Thibault, the consultant, states that there was misrepresentation as to what the actlon of the City of Victoria was. They did approve it based on the fact that we agreed to a swap. So they dldn't approve it as Lundgren Bros had proposed, whlch really was what was on the table. So what he's arguing in hls letter to the city ls saylng that they dld approve lt. They dld modify the fact that we agreed to swap properties and we're not sure that it makes sense. What they're looklng at ls tradlng some bulldable lots. What they would 1lYe to see happen is, if this does in fact become city property, moving this line here and they would take these lots here..The clty's posltlon at this polnt ls that this right here, this narrow strip may not be buildable and they're saying it's 2.3 acres and we've asked them to see how they could servlce the area. These lots obviously are buildable and we stated before that we...posslbly to come in from thls area and the fact that there's treed areas up-in here and there's a large hill and we'd want to go in there and take all the trees out. Maybe topographically it does make sense. In meetlng wlth them we also asked them to look at how they see the overall service area of this. As you know this area is developing now wlth Mlnnewashta Parkway, we'll be seelng a subdivision to the north of this of Kings Road. There is homes off of Kings Road in Victoria. They have to go through the clty of Chanhassen to get access and we've asked them to look at how they see serving this whole area. When wlll sewer be provided. So they dld do that and one other lssue ls that they recommended that a stub street be provided possibly in this area. We concurred that maybe somewhere in thls sectlon that a stub street ls provided. We do concur wlth that and that would make some of those lots larger. But we feel like this subdivision. Mayor Chmiel: Kate, when you say make it larger, you're talking. Kate Aanenson: Square footage. If they eliminate one lot, these lots. I've showed it on a compliance table. You would need 20,000. All of these lots would meet the frontage requirements. The setback. The 30 foot. The side yard requirements. The problem that you have ls they don't meet, you don't have the rear yard. Or the minimum lot size. So what they've proposed doing ls they put together a declaration of yard easements. I put this in here. There's a draft. Roger's made some comments and maybe he may want to speak to that. It's not the best situation but here's a couple scenarios. One, we approved thls subdivision and what we recommended in here is that we approve the subdivision and give it preliminary approval and we walt untll flnal p. lattlng thls section of the subdivision until we can maybe come to an agreement between the Clty of Victoria and Chanhassen. Where would be appropriate 11nes? Who's golng to serve what? Maybe we come to kind of an agreement where there's some property swapped. Or we leave it slt the way it is and we say, well we feel that we can glve a variance then, accept a yard easement. The problem with that is, if it never becomes part of one jurisdiction, you want to put something in your back yard, what happens then? Victoria could say well, we did meet with the Metropolitan 27 Cour~cil a'nd they said that as long as the services are coming from Chanhassen~ [hey don't see '[his as an issue.. You know Victo'r~a cou].d say, we~.]..1 just accept it the way it is. Obviously they feel like they're giving up land and not ge'~[ing anything in it because the assessment wi. Il be coming from the city of Chanhassen because it's just the rear yards~ So I mean they cou].d come forward and say, we~l if ~hey want to get a permit for something in the back yard, you could go through their jurisdiction. They've chosen not to do that so they've come up with this yard easement~ That people would have a perpetual right iv. st ~o go back and use the property but then it's complicated by the fact of what you could use it for and Roger leaf have some other concerns on that. That proposal of the yard easement has been drafted by the Lundgren's attorneys. So [h,:~.t's why ~ said. We felt ]..Lke it could be approved the way it is arid then hopefully we can work out these other issues. Again, we're just approving the preliminary plat. Hayor Chmiel: Roge'r', maybe you can just give Lis a quick overview as to what we have her's; and if we were to read it, .f.t rnight take us a lit'tie bit of time. Roger Knutson: It isn't pretty. And it's not the way I think anyone, in Chanhassen anyway, would .Like to see it done. Including the developer. It's not full [:>roof but it's as good of a job that can be done with the circumstances. f,,Ih~'L [his agreement says is, a. lthough it's not part of your Lot, you have an easement to use it as if it were a part of your lot and that the developer will ,:]o it's best to get it annexed into Chanhassen and get your ~ot rep~atted sonde'Lime ~n the future and ~ncLude this back yard ~n your lot. Th~s ~s, un~ess it can be annexed, ~h~s is about the best thing that can be done. Councilwoman Oockendorf: What can and cannot a person do if they just have an easement essentially in their back yard? Could they build a dog house? Could they build or do anything? Could they put sod on it? Roger' Knutson: Tl~ey can use it, yes. .Tf you look on page 2, permitted uses. Inst. ailation, maintenance of Lawn and grass, other vegetation, ~andscaping. say you can walk on it, picnic on it... Councilwoman bockendorf: Alright. Councilman Senn: Is enjoymen't of the ai~e~ '[or recreational purposes mean they can put up a swingset? Councilwoman bockendorf: Excluded. Play equipment or other structures..~ lfla. yor Chmiel: The line '[ha'[ cuts it of'[ is, that's it. Z mean they can r,,,~intain what's existing but they can't put a'nything perma'netly affixed to the ground. Kate Aanenson: Yeah~ unless Victoria chose to allow it. Co~,~ncil. man Senn: But to answer my question, what constitutes permanently affixed to the ground? Mayor Chmiei: Anything that's permanently affixed to the ground~ 28 City Council Meeting - July 12, 1993 Roger Knutson: It depends on the, I've got a playset in my backyard and it's affixed. Councilman Senn: Yeah, mine too with one of those big Rainbow playsets but I mean. Roger Knutson: That's what I have. Councilman Senn: Can you go send out a standard... Roger Knutson: I wouldn't have any problem if they did that. Councilman Senn: The question is whether Victoria would or not, right? And so it becomes a situation where they get into a cat and mouse game between Victoria and the residents right?' Roger Knutson: You know theoretically that lsa problem but if you go in front of a Judge and say, hey. They've got a playset back there. You're not going to get a real warm reception. Councilman Senn: Big bad wolf routine. It ain't pretty but I'tl move approval. Mayor Chmiel: I had a couple questions. Just on this. The footprint of those lots are what? Kate Aanenson: The square footage? Paul Krauss: Including the easement area? Or excluding it? Mayor Chmiel: Excluding it. Kate Aanenson: Well they're up to the smallest, if you take out one lot, which we had recommended and we figured the smallest would probably be about 12,000. Haybe 11. Councilman Mason: That's without. Kate Aanenson: Without, yeah. Councilman Senn: And with they all exceed 20. Mayor Chmiel: Yeah. I guess the concerns I have too are the homes that are set there with just that 30 foot setback. Rick Sathre: Your Honor, I'm Rick Sathre. I'd like you to clarify that for you. The numbers in the, that have the little boxes around them, that's the portion of those lots in the yard easement areas that are in Chanhassen only. And also on that drawing is the square footage of the entire ownership interest. The lot in Chanhassen plus the easement in Victoria. Mayor Chmiel: I guess I'm looking at the setback requirements, even though they made them side yard. But the homes that are going on, and I'll refer to the ones off of Lake Lucy Road. I don't know if anyone has had an opportunity to 29 OiLy Council Meet.i~ng ~- Su..ly i'/?..~ !993 look at that. In driving around. It seems as though the setbacks of 'the dl-iveways from the street are probably, are those the same identical Paul of 30 feet? PaLl], Krauss: If I remember right, on Lake Luoy Road, didn't we go down to 25 on some of those? Or 20. Rick Sathre: No~ no. Me're at 25. Paul Krauss: So this would be the full. 30. Mayor Ohm.lei: Mell when you drive through there, the homes and size of homes on those lots appears to be, to me, as crop, ding. They're awfully close to each other. And maybe because I'm use to the lot I'm on it just seems like they're really a larger home on a smalier lot and it's putting them all together. Paul Krauss: Mr. Mayor, in the ldillow Ridge subdivision we actually squeezed down some of the lots and that was one of the big concerns at the time. [ffectively each one of these !ors far exceeds city standards. Kate Aanenson: They all have 20,000 square feet. Paul Krauss: But perceptually when you drive past here, they're all going to 1. ook like half acre or better lots, and it's quite a bit different than Willo~ Ridge .in that regard. Millow Ridge is squeezed kind of tight. Mayor ChmieL: ¢,.ah 1,. is. It s reall, y tight I thi. nk~ Councilman Senn: Yeah, this is almost double 'that isn't it? ~ate Aanenson' Right. Mayor Chmiel: Okay. ! guess I was concerned about creating another kind as au. ch and even though thLs Ls going to meet all those standards, I thlnk that's better because ~ had some real concerns with that. Paul Krauss: Hr'. Mayor if ! could. One of the things we were discussing, and possibly Roger can help us on that is that technically these lots have a variance 'For .lot area. Technically they don't., We think the... (There was a tape change at this polnt in the discussion.) Hayor Chmiel: ~..i 'think what Kate said that the Council felt they just didn't ,4ant to give in to the City of Chanhasser, is basically what they said. And that they didn't want t_o give away any of those property rights. Now if they develop that other piece of property, technically what they have within the city of V{.ctoria right now, if they were to have the MUSA line for them to extend, which is probably what, in the year 2005 or 107 Kate flanenson: I put it in the staff r'eport. I believe it was 2005. Mayor Chmie!: Okay, and right now if they were to proceed with that particular proposal, how m~ny lots would they get out of what Ls there with the 5 acre 3O City Council Meeting - July 12, 1993 lots? Five? Kate Aanenson: Out of this one they're looking at, yeah 5 or 6. That's what they're looklng at. Paul Krauss: Well no. You're talklng about the land in Vlctorla to the west of the site? Mayor Chmiel: In Victoria, yeah. Right. Paul Krauss: Their Planner actually prepared a plan that conceptually illustrated what they could do wlth utilities. Kate Aanenson: It's in your report here. Paul Krauss: The premise is that with utilities, they don't have utilities and they don't have the means to get utilities here. Mayor Chmiel: No, that's the point. Paul Krauss: We've always assumed, and I've met with him once or twice. Kate's met wlth him many tlmes and the Clty Manager's met wlth hlm. That lt's probably more practical for them to petition us to provide the utiilties to them in that area. Certainly seems much more cost effective, but then again what slze lots they're golng to allow at that point in time, I think they have a larger lot slze. Kate Aanenson: 2 1/2 acre. Paul Krauss: But we are making provisions wlth the stub road and we do have the ablllty to run some utilities in there. Mayor Chmiel: Yeah. I guess some of the thoughts I have goes back to Minnewashta Parkway and the dealings with the City of Victoria. They didn't have any dollars to make a contribution to it so we took that over and dld put that out to Highway 5. It's just a short segment of it and there again, I know whoever drew up the lot 11nes was a problem. Whoever drew up the road, that's another problem. But in itself I guess that I see that we have made contributions to the clty of Vlctorla wlth what they're proposing to do and yet when we go back and talk to them, we don't have any reciprocation whatsoever. And it just sort of bothers me a 11ttle blt and I'd like to probably say maybe we should slt down with those people. Eye to eye contact and come up with some conclusions. Paul Krauss: Mr. Mayor, we've sat down, City Manager to City Manager, Planner to Planner but this may be an instance where you've been fairly effective at klnd of Mayor to Mayor meetlng and we'd be happy to attend. I think we were, you know and I can only talk about the several meetings I was at. We were w1111ng to entertain lots of thlngs but the idea of brlnging back to you the ldea of exchanging back yards for 4 or 5 lots with $200,000.00 or $300,000.00 houses was just ludicrous. And that's the only ldea they contlnue to broach. And he keeps coming back to that. The issue is not going to go away. In fact lt's golng to, in the future it w111 be exaccerbated when we look at the 31 City Cou. r~ci] i'!(seting--,Xu.]_y .1.2, i993 property to the south that Lundgren also co'ntrols because there is no way to sei"v~ it from Victoria. Now agail"t~ ~,~e~re willing to consider lots of things but they need to come to the table ~,~ith a little bit more of an open mind I think.. Hayor Chmiel: Uith an open platter-, okay, Richard~ Councilman Wing: Well ! read through this and this all, you know we have this ~,~onderfu. 1 development. It's a. tl ready to go except ~or all these land issues and all these loose ends and I guess why not do it right. Let the developer asusu, me the responsibiltx For this and come up ~,~ith some solutions and work with the ci[ies but why develop it until it's squared ak;ay. Why pass it onto another Council or another staff some other time~ The loose ends here are very impressive to me and if Z ca-n quote our esteem legal staff. ~t ain't very pretty. Paul Krauss: No and I guess I would use some similar language. It is and it's pretty unusual but ~,.~e've already asked the developer-to try to work it out through ~ictoria. Victoria's been unwilling a'nd the posktion that Victoria took that we should completely shift our plat a whole city s~reet, au. st elkmknate that and leave it as an outlot so that Victoria may or may 'not do something wi'th .it in the future which basically makes Lundgren's land over there almost ~,~o-rthless, whlch doesn't deal at all with the access and utllitx issues that ~,~',,~e been tr'ying to resolue~ ReaLly didn't seem to mo~e anything for~gard and you know, this is a little blt of an unusual proposal. It frankly does put L~ictorka a little bit behind the 8 ba11~ ~ don't know if you t,~ant to call it calllng their bluff but thls lsa practical solution. The only one that we could think of that seemed to resolve Lt. At least in the short term. ~ think long term everybody's golng to realize we].1, lt's not a blg deal and we'll move the city line. Don Ashworth: fir. hlayor? !4ayor Chmiet: Yeah Oon. Pon Ashworth: I think Paul and Kate have brought it out but Victoria would be t,Jill, ing to deannex that strip along the back side. The area that Kate's .showir~9 ~'ight now, if the City, if Chanhasser~ ~,~ould be willing to give up ne~,,¢ lots on the right hand side. If you'd point those out Kate. And we didn't think that that was really a fair swap. To swap backyards for entire lots just didn't make (hat much sense. But your point was, let's clean it up. Let's do it right. If you do want it cleaned Ltp, they will agree to that swap. I just don't think it's a fair olqe. Hayor Chmiei: I don't either. Councilman Wing: I'm not suggesting that's a solution either. Because I want to know who's going Lo service it. If ~e're going Mayor Chmiel: ...really can. Councilman Wing: Well ther, maybe we'd better be a little more flexible. A't the other end here. 32 City Council Meeting - July t2, 1993 Councilman Senn: I think you have to assume that ultimately it probably will end up right. Maybe that's a bad assumption but I mean I just view this as a negotiation. The negotiation la, as long as we don't take an actlon, Victoria's golng to think they have something to negotiate. Whlch is unreasonabIe. I mean from what I'm seen. So why not eliminate that lssue. Allow the developer to go ahead and I think then you can in effect form a new light on the negotiation. As long as we keep holdlng it up, lt's klnd of 11ke well let's keep asklng for the unreasonable. Don Ashworth: Another factor in here is that I firmly believe that the best way this area can be served with sewer and water is from Chanhassen. I mean looping the water system through here so that it would connect to our other systems on either side. For Vlctoria to consider extending sewer and water, and it's a masslve wetland area. A masslve piece of property owned by the University. It just isn't financially feasible. So at some point I really think that they'll be back here saylng, would you guys conslder extending sewer and water to thls property so that it can develop? And at that point in time we say, yes. We'll conslder that but you've got to deannex that plece in the back. Councilwoman Dockendorf: I see that as a natural course of events too so. Councilman Wing: That item number 15, Kate if we approve this, the city's landscaping plan. Off on the, if you looked at it from Minnewashta Parkway there's a stand of trees that may or may not be left. They exlst on the right property line. Then obvious vegetation on the 8oley area. I come to you on the slght 11ne from Minnewashta across Lake St. Joe. Olrectly lnto that h111 and the homes, kind of like that Eden Prairle subdivision down here. Was that addressed? Any ldeas, and I'm not asklng that it be forested or blocked or the view but was there any, don't tell me the word. I've got to come up with the word here. Minimizing. Modifying. Mitigating. Was anything done to mitigate that sight impact? Kate Aanenson: If you recall, I don't have the overhead right in front of me but we looked at that hill. We talked about to get the drainage from, to protect the wetland and we wanted proper drainage golng back to the street to get into the NURP pond. So we dld have to cut some of that h111. 8ut the vegetation that ls on the lots that may be platted wlth the second phase we left out because that's where a significant stand of trees were and we felt that it makes sense to servlce that comlng from the other direction. To save the trees. 8ut some of the hi11, the rise of the hill will be taken down. Councilman Wing: Was there any landscaping added then to the west side of Lake St. Joe on those large... Kate Aanenson: Actually there's a home placement plan. They fit in pretty well into the uegetation. Councilman Wing: Okay, so it's been looked at. Kate Aanenson: Yeah. Paul Krauss: That was a concern Richard that I remember you raised-when we looked at when the plat came through. 33 Eity Council i'!;~etirlg --July i2, 1793 C:ouIlcilma'n bJing: This is just preliminary at this point so I'ue got a chance to look at that? Kate Aanenson~ Right. Councilman Ming' Okay. !"iayor Chmiel: Okay. ~ny other discussion? Me have a motion on the floor. ~as there a second? Councilrnar~ Ming' Second, if there Na. yor Chm£el: ~ny additional discussions that ~ere done on this particu!a-r parcel? Councilman Senn moved, Councilman Wing seconded to approve Preliminary Plat ~93-1 for subdivision of 36 acres lnto 33 slngle family lots and 3 outlots subject to the plans dated January 5, 1993, with the following conditions being changed as indicated in bold type: The applicant shall place a sign on ba'rriers at the end of the southerly and westerly street extension into the clty of Victoria indicating "THIS STREET SHALL SE EXTENBEO IN THE FUTURE" Notice of the expansion shal. 1 be placed in the chain--of-title of each tot, All street intersections should be a. ligned perpendicular to each other. This condition has been met and reflected in Condition 1.2. Deleted. The lots which are partially in the city of Victoria shall be platted last in order for the two cities to work out an annexation-detachment agreement. Zf no agreement can be made between the citles, The Declaration of Rear Yard Easements, drafted by the applicant's attorney and approved by the Clty Attorney, shall be recorded with the subdivision, and homeowners by apprised of the city l£mlts and restrictions to lts use. All voted in favor of the amended conditions and the motion carried unanimously. TROTTERS RIDGE, LOCATED WEST OF GALPIN BOULEVARD AND SOUTH OF HIGHWAY 5, TANDEH PROPERTIES: REZONE 31.83 ACRES OF PROPERTY ZONED A2, AGRICULTURAL ESTATE T~_PUD, PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT. PRELIMINARY PLAT TO SUBDIVIDE THE PARCEL INTO 48 SINGLE FAMILY LOTS. WETLAND ALTERATION PERMIT TO ALTER AND MITIGATE WETLANDS. ~]o Ann Olsen: This one was just 'recently approved by the Ptannlng Commission. Xt is a ~-ezoning to a PUD~ It's also !,~etla. nd alteratior, permi't.~ They're proposing to create 49 slngle fatally 1ors. The slte ls just nord in the NUSA !..i. ne~ Seu~er and ~,~ater is being brought to it so it calm be subdivided and can be 34 City Counci. 1 lfleeting - 5uly 12, 1993 rezoned. It's a pretty straight forward subdivision. Some of the lssues that ~ere brought up at the last minute at the Planning Commission was the fact that ~oe were requesting that the right-of-way be 60 feet unless the applicant can show reason for it to be reduced to 50 foot right-of-way. This is at the request of the engineering department. At the last moment the applicant dld bring in plans that has showed the increased right-of-way to 60 feet. We have not had tlme to really revlew that to see the effects to the lots and the lot areas and setbacks and if that really does impact the trees. White the Plannlng Commission meeting was goln9 on, the engineering department and the applicant did have the opportunity to meet outside the Councll Chambers and they came to the agreement that they would provlde the 60 foot right-of-way but if there were trees ~githln the boulevard that weren't within where the street was actually golng to be located, that they could preserve those trees. That was one of the reasons we were going for the 50 foot right-of-way was to preserve some more of the trees. So wlth that compromise, that's how we proposed it to the Plannlng Commission. There was discussion whether or not it shoutd be tabled to have the Plannlng Commission see the revlsed plans. But the effect really of increasing that right-of-way to 60 feet wasn't greatly changing the number of lots. The location. The layout or anythlng so we felt comfortable wlth it being passed on. To the City Council. One of the other issues was the tree removal. As you recall, the Plannlng Commission ls pretty adamant about seelng exactly what trees are on the site. Whlch are the substantial trees. Which ones are belng proposed to be removed' and whlch ones are proposed to be preserved. At that time we had not had the tally for each lot to show you which trees were on each lot. What the size was. What the type. So slnce approval of the Plannlng Commission, ~e have put that together and that is now in your report. So you have detalls on each lot, whlch trees w111 be removed and whlch trees must be preserved. Other than that, again it's pretty straight forward. It's meetlng all the other requirements. There's one lot that st111 has to provide a 90 foot right-of-way. Or street frontage I mean. And there's hardly, there's no problem wlth doing that because there's plenty of room on elther slde of lt. The wetland alteration are pretty straight forward~ They're only proposing to f111 areas of wetlands that were pretty degraded. Cows are pasturing in them and such and they are preserving the nicer wetlands. They are proposing the landscaping that we requlred and meetlng all the other conditions of the Planning Commission recommendations. So we are recommending approval Mlth the conditions that we've added in the staff report from the Plannlng Commission and we are also, ~ just wanted to point out that condition number 2 has been met. They have provlded the tree information in that so. Zn your report condition number 2 should be removed. And with that, we're recommending approval'with the conditions. Ifiayor Chmiel: Okay. Thank you. Now we're staying with the 50 foot right-of-way? Jo Ann Olsen: No, it's a 60 foot right-of-way. Mayor Chmiel: 60. Okay. That's what ~ had here because that was one of the questions. Now what was the clty gettlng out of thls whole complete package? What benefits are we going to derlve from this and protection of the trees are one of the concerns that we have, as staff well knows. Front yard setbacks are at 25 feet, which is the norm. 35 Ann Olse-n 30 feet is tn~ norm. Mayor Chmiel: Or 30 feel: and here it's back Lo 25? /lo Ann Olean: It's allowing it where necessary. Where they can show that they will be preserving some of the natural features by having 'the reduced setback, they will be permitted to have it. It's not just a straight out 25 foot setback for all the lots. Mayor' Chmie!: Okay. For each of the typically requi'r'ed 50,000 square feet. Footprints would llot create any 9ivan pf-obiems whatsoever? .]o Ann Olean: Well. they have to show that the bull. ding footprint will meet the t,~etJ, and setbacks. The buffer strips~ 'the other setbacks and they have shown that. flaFor Cl3miel: Okay,, Richard Councilman Ming: No comments Hr. Mayor. It's sort of a standard subdivision with 27, got to have silt 'Fences in and the flre hydrant caps got to be on and it means to me is a lot of cars and a !or of traffic and nothing I'm going to do about Mayor Chmiel: One of the other questions that t have that I passed by regarding no soi! boring information on the site. Have you received anything at all on it as of yet? ,lo Ann Olsen: Boy, if I did I gave it right to Steve Kirchman and I don't know if the soil boring information,, Mayor Chmiel: Thls was on page 6. It says staff received no soil boring information on this site. It appears that soil conditions may contain high moisture content and therefore a drain tile system should be included in the street constrLtction. And I guess that's the part I wanted to bring up was with (hat street construction. Me ran into that wlth Kerber Boulevard where we should have had a much better base underneath to alleviate all that water coming up between those seams, or probably putting all that together in one place. And ~ know eventually the ci(y's going to start paying for i.t. Ho~ are we going to be sure that we don't create the same kind of a problem there. Dave Hempe!: Mr. Mayor, I can address that. All our new subdivisions now, because we've had such a problem with hlgh moisture content in the roadway bases as well as sump pump discharge from households. Me're implementing a new pollcy that the clty streets will requlre drain tlles 3 feet deep, a foot behlnd the curb to eliminate subsurface dl-ainage problems as well as give an opportunity for homeowners to have a place to discharge the sump pumps in lieu of somebody else's backyard or illegal!F in the sanitary sewer system. Mayo'~ Chmiel: Good. Good. That sounds great. That's what i'm real concerned wit h~ Okay, I guess ! don' t have any ot her. Councilman Mason: ]i'm going to put you on the spot for a minute~ What's the al.if terence between a 50 foot right~-of-way and a 60 foot right-of-way? Uhy does 36 City Council Meeting - July 12, 1993 the city care about that 10 feet? Mayor Chmiel: 10 feet. Councilman Senn: And he's a school teacher. Oave Hempel: Councilmember Mason, the city ordinance for subdivisions is 60 feet right-of-way. It used to be a-few years back 50 foot right-of-way. In some instances with the PUD development we have made concessions down to a 50 foot right-of-way. Where instances there was efforts to save trees or limit greens but the big determining factor was utility installation and grading the site was the tool, or whatever that did have the impact on the trees. It wasn't the right-of-way. At one time we thought that all trees should be cleared from the right-of-way from a liability standpoint as well as maintenance. We've gone back and reconsidered that somewhat too. In areas where we can save large trees, we will do everything in our power. Mayor Chmiel: Any other questions? Councilwoman Oockendorf: I was confused on the trails. Where they're going. Who's paying for them. What the easements are. It sounds like we've got two going in. One going through the division and one on CR 117. Jo Ann Olsen: Right. There's one going to be along CR 117 and then there's also going to be. Councilwoman Oockendorf: And the developers are going getting credit for that or they're paying for it? Jo Ann Olsen: They're getting credit for the trail. Councilwoman Oockendorf: Okay. And then the other one going thru it? Jo Ann Olsen: Yeah. One's going above the wetland and one's going kind of below. The ponding. Above the ponding and below the ponding. Depending on the soils. What was brought up was where that actual connection from the street down to that trail should be. That we might want to look at condensing the two into one. Councilwoman Oockendorf: And nothing's been decided yet? Jo Ann Olsen: No. Councilwoman Dockendorf: It's just preliminary. Well. Councilman Senn: Being the natural person I am, I'd like to compliment the staff on significantly increasing the amount of 80 in Chanhassen. On the 11ghter side. Councilman Mason: Very 11ght. Mayor Chmiel: Any other discussions? 37 City Council MeeEil~g ~-, July !2, 1993 Councilman Wing: If we haven't heard any commeilts and we've had discussions, don't we make .;! motion t.o approve Hayer Chmiel: That's what I'm looking for. Councilman Senn: So moved. Mayor Chmiel: Staff recommend City Counc].l adopt the following motion~ Who's going to do this? Councilman Senn: Say that again? Councilman Wing' Yeah, what? Councilman Senn: You lost LIS? What'd you do now? llayor Chmiel: If you look on page 14. Recommendation is there with the elimination of item 2~ There are 37 totally,, Did you say you moved approval? Councilman Senn: Yes. Hayer Chmiel: Is there a second? Councilman Wing: Yeah. I was just looking for that fire cap one. That one's got ~ !' 11 second. Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Moved and seconded. Any other discussions? Councilman Senn moved, Councilman Wing seconded to approve the rezoning 32.5 acres of property zoned ~2, Agricultural Estate to PUB, Planned Unit Bevelopment, approval of the preliminary plat (#93-2 PUB) to subdivide 32.5 acres of property into 49 single family lots, and approval of a wetland alteration permit (#~3-2 WAP) as shown on the plans dated June 2~, lgg3 and subject to the following conditions: The iandscaping plan shall, be amended to include landscaping between the westerly, lots and the industrial land to the west where vegetation does not already exist, and two front yard overstory trees shall be required for each lot where two trees do not exist. 2. Oeleted. All tree designated for preservation shall be protected by a snow fence 1 i/2 times the diameter of the drip line prior to any alteration of the s.~te. Any understory vegetation wlthln the snow fence she11 also be preserved~ Each of time lots shall have a woodland management plan developed by the developer prior to issuance of certificate of occupancy. The woodland management plan shall be developed by a licensed forester approved by the c~ty. A copy of the t,~oodland manageraent plan shall be kept in the building permit 'rile and a copy will also be given to the homeowner. 38 City Council Meeting - July 12, 1993 5. Unless a lot already has two overstory trees in the front yard, additional overstory trees, from the city's approved list, shall be planted in each lot so that there are two overstory trees in each front yard. If this has not been accomplished prior to the issuance of a building permit for a lot, before a building permit is issued, arrangements must be made to have the trees planted within one grading season after the building permit is issued. The city should require security to guarantee compliance. 6. The wetland boundaries including buffer areas will have a monument designating it as protected wetland at each lot line. 7. All utility and street improvements shall be constructed in accordance with the latest edition of the City's Standard Specifications and Detailed Plates. Detailed street and utility plans and specifications shall be submitted for staff review and City Council approval. 8. The applicant shall apply and obtain permits from the Watershed District, DNR, 6arver County Public Works, HWCC, Hinnesota Health Department, and other appropriate regulatory agencies and comply with their conditions of approval. 9. The applicant shall enter into a development contract with the city and provide the necessary financial security to guarantee compliance with the terms in the development contract. 10. All areas disturbed during site grading shall be immediately restored with seed and disc-mulched or wood flber blanket or wod wlthln two weeks of completing site grading unless City's Best Management Practices Handbook planting dates dictate otherwise. 11. Utility drainage easements outside the street right-of-way should be a mlnlmum of 20 feet in uldth. The applicant shall dedlcate dralnage and utility easements over all ponding and wetland areas on the final plat. 12. The street right-of-way should be increased to 60 feet in width, and the applicant should work with clty staff to preserve trees ulthin thls right-of-way as a result of the lncrease to 60 feet. 13. Preliminary and final plat approval should be contingent upon the city authorizing Phase II of the Upper Bluff Creek Sewer and Water Improvement Project 91-178. 14. All driveways shall access the interior streets. No driveway access will be allowed onto Galpin 8oulevard. Oriveway access to Lot 33, 8lock 1 and Lot 9, Block 2 of the preliminary plat shall be from the street on the west side of the lot. The two existing driveways shall be realigned perpendicular to the new street and paved with a bituminous or concrete surface. 15. The applicant shall be responsible for construction of a right turn lane on southbound Galpin 8oulevard into the site in conjunction with the overall slte improvements. 39 J. 5~. 'Th~, arp?~.l...icant sba1.1 /.>i"ovide sanita'ry se~,~le'r- and ~4ate'r- s~YvS..ce ko existi'ng oxdk'nancs 'r'cqL!ir~i.i"i9 cox~t]ec'[ioxl 'ko rl'~L~nicipa} sa'nita~'y ~?? The a. pp]~icani sha,,!], pr'ovio_e ..... storm se~0eY' The app]..i, cant sha.l.~ extenc! thc storm set,!er to maintain the neighborhood dYa. irlage pattern th'rou, gh Lot ~ z . o ~ u o. ~-,-~ ai ' ~'t~on8 for' a tcn ycar 'l"~c app].Ica'i~t ohal] ..:upp.Jy ~e~aiLed stovn'~ .:.e4er cc.~...c,u.].c, ~ r:~torm event and ponding ca]~cu.].ations -Fo'," 'rctention ponds in accordance t,~iti~ city oYdi. i'~a'nce for the cS. ty enginee;," to 'r'eviat0 and approve. 20. 'Yh,?. app]_{.cant's eng;i, neev shall reviet~ the lot grading on Lots 13 and k4, R~,,u-ck ?=. to divert d'ra.i, nag'e further at~a>, from "'the hoktse. ~ i:'iddit;i, ona. i. er.'.)sior~ contro.i, fence (Type I) sha]~i be extended along t.ots .... ~ r~ng he feet l~,varc! ...... D O U Ilea. in tk.!.e t;,~i.l_], b~~, requ.:i.'red behJ. nd the curbs _tn those a.'reas t~here su. mp pu. rnp di. schaYge ~,~5..'I..iL not be d..t'r'ected into the storm pc, i~d or wetland area~ The !;pp.iScar~,c ............ u.~/i/L] sti,umiLt ,'n formation,. . r",gaY'ding~.; hook~.up ct' st.tmp pu. mp 'For city The pYoposed stYeet names "T'ro'i:'ters Lane" and T'r"otte'rs Circle" are unaccep'LabJ, e., The city current.tX has a "TrotteYs CiYcle" To avoid d~ipkicakion, neu~ n~mes mu. st be submitted to Pu.b]~c Safety for approva.] 24,, ~fl ten foot clear space must be mainta,,tned around fSre hydrants~ 5 .... e. NSP, NU ~e].J.~ cable boxes, st'reei: ].amps, i:rees~ shY'u, bs~ etc. Pursuant to Chanhassen City Ordinance~ section 9---.L, Fire app,;iratus access 'roads shall be designed and maintained to suppoYt the imposed loads of f/re apparatus and shal}_ be pYov~ded ~5th a surface so as to provide a.l. 1 t,~eathei~ all-lying capabiJ, ities. The Yoad shal/[ be in pkace before constYuc:tkon on 'ne~,~ d~elkings start~ t,~hich are greater tha'n .150' fi-om County Road ~i're hXfi a ". ~ r' (~rc. lql, s are 'now shown on the Lt'(i].i[y piton Hydrant spacing Ls '~'~ot to exceed 300' beginnir~g ai: County Road Li. 7. 27,. FiYe h?sd'rant caps must be painted [.>er chanhassen Engineering specs, Tndicate Zot,~est 'r.;~oov elevations and gaY'age floor elevations for each house pad on the grading pl..an befo're fina~ pi. at approval~ Submit deta. iks on coi--rected pads including compactior~ tests~ limits of the pad and e]..evat.i, ons of excavations to the inspections Division. ~ genera]. soi.].s 'report 'for the development should also be submitted to the InspectSons l]iv.'i, sion. This condition mu. st be met before any building permits a'r"e issued. 40 Cit>, Council Heating - July 12, 1993 30. The dedication of Outlot A as park and open space. This dedication to include a survey of the property and 'Field staking of property corners and lot intersection points~ Transfer of fee title of this property shall occur through an unrestricted warranty deed at the time of platting. The applicant shall recelve 502 park fee credlt, or $300.00 per home, for thls dedication. The balance of the park fees being collected at a rate of of the park fee in force upon building permlt application. At present thls fee would be one-half of $600.00, or $300.00. 31. The applicant shall provide a 20 foot wide trail easement along the entire easterly property line. This trail corridor is identified in the city's Comprehensive Plan and no trall fee credlt shall be granted for said easement. The applicant shall map and construct a trall paralleling Outlot A as described herein and as depicted on Attachment A. Any easements for trail purposes whlch are necessitated by this alignment shall be conveyed to the city~ The applicant shall receive full trail dedication fee credit for thls condition. The entirety of this trail shall be constructed above the 9~ elevation mark. 23. Staff will work with the City Attorney to draft an agreement with the developer to provide financial guarantees for replacement of any trees removed wlthin the right-of-war whlch were not approved for removal. 34. A 25' front yard setback will be permitted where necessary to preserve natural features. 35. All lots shall meet the 90' frontage requirements. 36. Staff shall review the location of the trail connections. 37. Only the trees listed in Attachment ~i will be permitted to be removed. All other trees shall be preserved and protected with snow fence located at i 1/2 times the drip line. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS: Mayor Chmiel: Mark. Council Presentation regarding no wake zones, I would assume on lakes. Councilman Senn: Well, I don't care Don. Councilman Mason: I think that's what some people feel about Council right now. That we're in a no wake zone. Councilman Wing: A no wake zone for all the city lakes or one specific one? Mayor Chmiel: I'm not sure yet. 41 City Council Meeting .-~ ,Yu, ly !2, ,1.97:3 Councilman Senn: What I ~ould like to see is I ~,~ould like to see us implement a pr'ocedL~re that t:Jhen the lakes are as high as they are Fight noM~ drastically eroding the sheFelines~ that ~de simply do t~o {hings~ One is pos{ public accesses as no t4ake on these iakes~ b~hich signs can be taken dobJn when the lakes r'etLtrn {o a lower level. And aisc some fairly significant and hopefu]..ly continuing publicity in Che nek~spaper to also get the surrounding homeowners that the same is the TLtle. And also to get the Sheriff's Department to post and enforce such. And I ta~ked to Scott abo~tt that during the t4eek end I think he's already talked to the Sheriff's Department and I think everybody from, at lesat · From that end is all for itou ~ t I thought it'd make sense to bring it up here and take some form of i think formal action on it to initiate a policy that ~oe do that~ I don~t kno~ ho~ often ~e~L1 see this but X think right nol~ our shorelines are being 'really butchered. Mayor Ci"~miel: Yeah, and I don't disagree k~ith that~ ! think Lake Minnetonka has just gone through the same process of doing that as ~ell. At least I read that .tn the paper here last ~eek. And I think it makes good sense for us at high water Levels to make sure that the erosions of t. he shore].ines are not ~aking place. And oftentimes you'll probably get people from not ~,~ithin our community on that lake and really buzzing. Zn fact ~ ~as out on a }aka just the other day and sa/~ some boats just close to shore and Z sa~ kt sloshing kt up onto shore and some even ~ith...right close to ~t~ ~l-~ch ~s not too good. Councilman Sent,' ! think you have to realize that ~,~e have a new high water mark b in every la~.e~ I mean i (!on t think they even come close to the old boundaries. Mayor Chmiel: That's an old song that came out many years ago is how high is the ~ater momma. 10 foot high and rlslng. Councilman Senn: No, to the crest of the Councilman Ming: Mhat are you asking for here? Be specific. Councilman Senn: Well my understanding, here's ~hat I did. I called and talked to Charles about it and he asked me to call the BNR. So I called the BNR and tile L1NR basical, ly came back and ..said, u~e don't have anything to do uJith that. That's local jurisdiction. The Sheriff should post it. The Sheriff should enforce it. Because I told him this ~as Carver County, ~as Chanhassen, etc. Counc:ilman Ming: Enforce what though? What are you talking about? Councilman Senn: Enforce no ~,.~akes. Councilman Ming: Where? Councilman Senn: On the lakes. Councilman Ming: The entire lake? Councilman Senn: Yes. Okay, and that's not going to be rea]. popular t~ith the ~ater skiers but Z don't kno~ hokl you start dra~ing 11nes between ~,~here you can and ~here you can't, ~ho can, t~ho can't and Z'm hoping that the lake tevels I~ill go do~n to a reasonable 1eve1 wlti~in a reasonable perlod of time but ~ don't 42 City Council Meeting - July 12, 1993 know what the solutions are unless we plan on going in and somehow protecting every bit of shoreline that we've got. Councilman Wing: Do you know what the LMCD has done over on Minnetonka? They're trying, and this was in the paper. I can't believe it's not going to be a battle. I may be worse than we had tonlght. I'm just curlous if you know what they've done or what's going on. Councilman Senn: My understanding is they've picked areas and what the LMCO generally does is they pick the tlghter areas on the lake. Well, if you look at tlghters areas on Mlnnetonka, those are the widths of some of our lakes. And that gets to be a little bit of the issue here and I guess Minnetonka ls Mlnnetonka. Chanhassen has lt's...I'd 11kc to see us protect our resources. Mayo;- Chmiel: We can't take any action on this today. We'd have to put it on the agenda. Councilman Senn: Well my understanding from the ONR is that there is no action necessary. My understanding is that the Sheriff has the power to simply post the accesses and enforce that regulation. Okay and the Sherlff, from my understanding from talking to Scott, who I wish was still here, ls the Sheriff is now wllllng to do that. I just thought it made a lot of sense to, I mean if we're going to do it, to have. Mayor Chmiel: I guess I'm looking at it from a legality aspect and maybe Roger can clarify that. Roger Knutson: If we're going to establish a no wake ordinance. Are you talking about one lake or? Councilman Senn: No. I'm talking about. Roger Knutson: All lakes? Councilman Senn: Well some of our lakes don't allow motor boats so there lt's a non-issue but I'm just saying on the lakes that do allow. Roger Knutson: If you're going to do it though, there's a process set up for adopting surface water useage ordinances which this would be. It takes an ordinance and it takes DNR approval. Councilman Senn: Well again now, ONR dealt with this more from a standpoint of hey, you've got an emergency out there. They are not required to approve lt, from what they told me. Roger Knutson: I'd be concerned. It's fine to have it up there as an advisory. But if you're golng to prosecute someone. Mayor Chmlel: You can't. You can't stop them from doing that. Roger Knutson: Unless there's something I don't know about. I mean we have no wake ordinance right now. Part of one lake or a whole lake an we've done this in the past and there's a specific process. Again, t will call DNR and 43 City Council Meeting ~- July iE, L9~3 maybe 'they know something I don't but we~ve gone through this quite a few times. Councilman Senn: I'll give you the name and number of the guy I talked to because again, I asked him very specifically what do we need to do and he said, have the Sheriff put up the sign and have the Sheriff enforce it. That was his answer. Roger Knutson: Just like Go Slow signs or Children at Play. I mean they can be used as helpful advisories but if it comes down to, now it's time to issue the citation and go to court. Mayor Chmiel: You have nothing basically to go back on and that I guess was my question. Councilman Wing: Minnewashta certainly is having the problem you're describing. We were out diving on Lotus on Saturday and I concur, Our problem is primarily been these strong winds and t~me waves. They've just wiped us out, The boats I haven't even noticed because of the wave action has been so bad. I'm not denying your problem or minimizing it at all. Councilman Senn: Like Lotus has no wave, I mean wind action unless you end up with a hell of a strong straight north or south wind. I mean there's not enough wldth to it to make a differnce but the boats just kill it. I think the same (san be said on Riley. Councilman Mason: So are you looking to put some signs up then? Councilman Wing: ! think we ought to look into no wake here. Councilwoman Dockendorf: Right. Which signs? Please don't or you will be prosecuted, Councilman Mason: Well we can't apparently do the prosecution one but I think advisory signs are certainly warranted. Without passing, having a public hearln9 and passlng ordinances. Councilman Senn: Yeah, by the time we do all that, it's going to be past. I mean I'd like to see LtS do that so we have the emergency power in the future to do it but if that's all we can do for now, then t think we should get the signs up and ask the water patrol to, if they can't enforce it to encourage it. How would that be. And to also do the publicity to get the homeowners involved. Mayor Chmiel: Those costs are basically incurred by us because the Sheriff doesn't have any signs to put up per se. Councilman Wing: Forget the Sheriff's Department and Water Patrol. That won't happen. Not a chance. Councilman Senn: I don't know. I may be speaking out of turn but I think Charles already ordered the signs. Mayor Chmiel: Oh, well that's good. I don't have any objections to that. Just so that it ls an advisory requesting them to not rev their boats up to high 44 City Council Meeting - July 12, i993 speeds to cause waves. Councilman Senn: Don, you may want to check that tomorrow because t don't know what he's got worked out. Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Alright. Colleen. Councilwoman Dockendorf: Well, in reading the Minutes from the last couple of meetings and hearing comments from people who have been on the Council for quite a while that we've always had a problem with our audio equipment. Have we ever looked into replacing it and what those costs would be? I mean Nann does a wonderful job trying to, and we talk over each other and people yell from the audience and you know, but I think it would be helped if we had some decent equipment...Anyway, have we ever looked into it and what the expense would be? Mayor Chmiel: Yes. I think so. Don, you can address thati Don Ashworth: Right. We're actually in the process of changing it over right now. But one of the problems has been involved. See that's a new camera there. It hasn't been activated yet...But anyway, that camera there has the ability to puli down so that boards like tonight can actually be placed in here. We're changing out this camera so she can move that around and catch the front. We're putting the other type of mic's in because even, these aren't working as well as they really should. So hopefully by the end of the year. Councilwoman Oockendorf: End of the year. And with that weather tower going in I mean. Mayor Chmiel: Any other discussions on that? Councilman Senn: Before we jump off wakes too far. Could we ask Roger to prepare something like that? Councilwoman Oockendorf: You mean in addition to the signs going up? Councilman Senn: Yeah, I mean prepare something in the ordinance that would allow Council some form of emergency powers in the future to do that. Roger Knutson: It's on mx list. Councilman Senn: Okay. I just want everybody to agree. Mayor Chmiel: Okay. Michael. Councilman Mason: Very quickly. I had a call from a gentleman that lives not too far from Homestead Avenue. 2 1/2 acre lots. He's real concerned about the size of structures that can be put at the back of those 2 1/2 acre lots as the city grows. Who should I direct him to? Who can he talk to about that issue? Paul Krauss: I guess send him to us. We've been working. Mayor Chmiel: Paul's going to be out of town for 2 to 3 weeks. Send them to US. 45 City Council Heetin9 - July 12, 1993 Paul Krauss: In fact we're raising the issue of 2 1/2 acre lots right We've been working with Roger. If you remember a couple of years ago we passed an ordinance decreasing the size of rural lots. Altow-ing them to be made smaller as long as you provide on site sewer. What we've done on one part of the ordinance...and that was that we limited, we excluded subdivisions that were approved prior to the date of adoption of the ordinance which excluded somebody's right in Timberwood to come in with 15,000 acre lots. That language got omitted so technically some of your neighbors could ask us to do that right now. So that's a problem that we didn't foresee, gasn't supposed to be there. We need to correct that. The other issue with 2 1/2 acre lots we're dealing with too is, right now as it reads, the City Engineer and yourselves do not have the right to reject unsewered provisions inside the MUSA line of a large acre lots. That causes a real problem for you when...and you have little bits and pieces you can't assess because they've been able to build one on site. We're going to roll it, there's a real issue with...building size, we can just roll it into the package. Councilman Mason: Give me a name wilt you? I know you're going to be out of town. Paul Krauss: I guess Sherman's going to contact me on that... Councilwoman Dockendorf: Is that the issue or is this guy talking about in back of him? Roger Knutson: Accessory buildings? Councilman Mason: Oh, he's just talking about real big sheds putting. Paul Krauss: Agricultural buildings? Councilman Mason: Yeah. Sheds a third of the size of the lot or whatever. He's not, he's a very pteasant gentleman. Just ralsed a concern. Wanted to know who to talk to about it and ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS: Councilman Wlng: Paul, before you head off for Zncaville. On the letter in the Administrative Packet from Eden Prairie to us saying, do we want to protect the trees in the Bluff Creek and you klnd of came back and sald, well we're working on doing this. Why didn't you simply write them back and say, yes. Absolutely. Do you have any suggestions along ulth what we're dolng? Paul Krauss: I guess I could have. Ny first inclination was, yeah we've already done it. ge're doing a better job than you are. Councilman Senn: Oon, t had a couple other questions on Administrative packet stuff if I could. Hayor Chmiet: Okay. Councilman Senn: One is on the memo to Paul Krauss dated June 29th, which I don't know~ These aren't numbered...but is everybody else here comfortable with 46 City Council Meeting - July 12, 1993 approving construction of a metal building when we don't allow anybody else to do it? I mean if I'm understanding the proposal here, ~e're going to build a 120 x 40 foot metal building. I'm just asking. I mean it seems to me that's kind of a double standard. Mayor Chmiel: I was wondering where we got the money from. Paul Krauss: That's a Lake Ann Park additional shelter. Mayor chmiel= Yeah, these things sneak in every once in a while. I was wondering where do the dollars come from for this. Any idea? Don Ashworth: I didn't see the memo, to be honest. Paul Krauss: All I can tell you is what I know about it. The City Engineer approached me about the Park Department was...for thelr equipment storage. What's the most appropriate place to put it? Well, we put them in touch with Barton-Aschman's worklng wlth us on the roadway issues. Z'm a little blt concerned about where it's located but then the existing building's already there and there's qulte a blt of expense in movlng it so ultimately we sald, it doesn't really trip a site plan review. As far as I'm concerned, as long as it's screened. Councilman Senn: Well but when the existing building wears out, you replace it. I mean I don't know if you can extend that use by buiiding another one. I don't know. Maybe I'm belng too sensitive but it just seems to me we're always very sensitive about that and all of a sudden turn around and geez we're saying, oh just do it. Paul Krauss: It's not exactly in a terribly concealed location. It is where the boulevard's comlng in. Councilman Senn: Well I can bring you to a lot of private concealed locations too and we still tell them. Councilman Wlng: Yeah, let's thlnk twlce about that. I think that ought to get pulled. Paul Krauss: You did allow, I mean Carver County did erect a metal pole barn in the Reglonal Park...and that's all their budget would allow them. Councilman Senn: Well I guess I'd like to see some more instruction on that. Councilman Wing: Hold on, where are we? Because that one didn't trip me for some reason. Councilman Senn: It's back towards the end Dick. I don't know, if you want to count pages in. It's 6 back of the 6th page in. Councilman Wing: Okay. Mayor Chmiel: Do we have any idea what the cost of that thing is? 47 city Council He,sting ~--July 12, 1793 Paul Krauss: I'm sorry Mayor, I don't have any information. Oon Ashworth: I would like to review that with Charles. Councilman Wing: Yeah, let's not. Let's not. Councilman Senn: I mean the Highway 5 task force. Your proximity to that. I mean all the things we're starting to require. Councilman Wing: This is going to have to be brick. Pitched roof. Councilman Senn: No, I didn't say let Wing design it. Don't get me wrong. Councilman Wing: I agree. I don't know why I didn't see this. Good point. I think that's a mistake. Don Ashworth: Welt it may or may not be. I guess I don't have enough information to tell you. Councilman Senn: I don't either. That's why I'm just asking that we get it I guess. Mayor Chmiel: I don't want to see anything proceeding on that until we get some clarification as to what it is. Don Ashworth: t agree. Councilman Senn: The other item I wanted to ask about was on the second to the last page. Can you tell me what that all means? The letter from the Superintendent. Mayor Chmiel: From the School ~1127 Councilman Senn: Talking about us participating and proceeding a second phase or this, that or the other thing. I mean it seems like there's a lot of things we're proceeding on but no definition as to what they are. At least in, you're probably more knowledgeable on it than I. Mayor Chmiel: The proposed new school is golng to come in the fall, as it says of '~5. And they want enough lead time to get everything pulled together so they can have it in thelr hands by no later than July of '93. Councilman Senn: Yeah, but they've given us a deadline here of auly 12th to be back to them on something that has to do with something and I don't even understand what it is. I guess is my question. bon Ashworth: Right. We have the joint Plannlng Commission, HRA, City Council established a work session to look at the downtown issues and the school and we set the 19th. Next Monday at 5:30. We informed these people that the Councll would be !ooking at some of these a!ternatives on the l~th and what thls letter is back saying is, fine. Take tlme to go through what it is you want to do but we've got some time tables here ourself. If you're going to be part of the plannin, g process, we've got to move this thing along. Now to pick July 12th. 48 City Council Meeting - July 12, 1993 Councilman Senn: Well Don, I guess I'm still lost. I mean I understood ue had a Council work session coming up and we're dealing with the downtown issue. Now you're saying it includes the school issue and what I'm trying to say is, I haven't seen anything with the school issue since we took the action to convey the land. Now this seems like we have a lot more involvement in it beyond that and a lot more going on here. I don't know a thing about it. I'd feel very uncomfortable walking into even a work session at this point. Oon Ashworth: And I apologize. I should have had the memo out today. I just finished prooflng it tonlght. It w111 be delivered to you tomorrow along with the packet for next Monday night. And it will go through the issues that you're talklng about. Mayor Chmiel: It's all going to be addressed in that letter. Councilman Senn: And these are future Council actions then you mean that are going to be required or what? Don Ashworth: Right. We would anticipate that after this joint session, after the Council gives us some direction, that we would then put it back onto a future Clty Counc11 agenda and you would act on whatever general guldance you end up givlng us next Monday nlght. Mayor Chmiel: In other words, amen. Councilman Wing moved, Councilman Mason seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The meeting was adjourned at 10:23 p.m. Submitted by Oon Ashworth City Manager Prepared by Nann Opheim 49