PC 1998 01 07CHANHASSEN PLANNNG COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
JANUARY 7, 1998
Chairman Peterson called the meeting to order at 7;00 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Craig Peterson, Ladd Conrad, Allyson Brooks, Kevin Joyce, LuAnn
Sidney and Matt Burton
MEMBERS ABSENT: Alison Blackowiak
STAFF PREESNT: Kate Aanenson, Planning Director; and Cynthia Kirchoff] Planner I
PUBLIC HEARING:
CONSIDER AN AMENDMENT TO THE CITY CODE TO ALLOW FAST FOOD
RESTAURANTS WITHOUT A DRIVE THRU IN A BN, NEIGHBORHOOD BUSINESS
DISTRICT AND A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A DOMINOES PIZZA TO BE
LOCATED IN THE SEVEN FORTY-ONE CROSSINGS CENTER.
Cynthia Kirchoff presented the staff report on this item.
Peterson: Do we have a response to staff'regarding the 2:00 a.m.?
Kirchofl) Sorry, I forgot to comment that SuperAmerica is allowed to operate from 5:00 a.m. to
midnight so that's why we put midnight in for an ending date or closing time for Dominoes.
Peterson: What about the video store that's in there? Do they go past, do we even know?
Kirchoff5 I'm not aware of...
Peterson: So you're recommending to stay with the midnight?
Aanenson: Right. We thought...
Peterson: Do we know how late the.., open in town?
Kirchofl) Mr. Cart had said that his other restaurant in Chanhassen is open until 2:00 a.m. That is
at west...
Peterson: Other questions of staff'?
Joyce: There's a Subway shop in there. In that mall.
Kirchoffk Yes. According to the site plan there is, yes.
Joyce: What restaurant...
Planning Commission Meeting - January 7, 1998
Aanenson: It will be similar. It has predominantly sit down...
Joyce: If we don't pass the amendment...
Kirchofl2 No. I assume they're all midnight since SuperAmerica...
Burton: Did SuperAmerica ask to be open past midnight?
Kirchofl2 Well the conditional use permit was approved in 1988 and that's a condition of
approval. I just read through the conditions of approval. The hours that were approved.
Peterson: Other questions?
Sidney: I'm wondering how both of...
Peterson: We can probably get that from the applicant. Any other questions to staff directly?
Does the applicant or their designee wish to address the Planning Commission? If so, please
come forward and state your name and address...
Ed Carr: Yeah, my name is Ed Carr. I'm the owner of Bloomington Pizza Incorporated, which is
the franchisee that will own this. I currently own 10 other stores in the Twin Cities. My one
concern about the hours. It's not really a concern but is, it's not a big problem for us to close at
midnight. Our primary reason for being open until 2:00 is obviously supply and demand. Our
primary reason for being open until 2:00 is obviously supply and demand. If customers are there,
they want the service, then we stay open. We found in some other areas that because of the make-
up of the residential neighborhood, you know 11:00 or 12:00 is sufficient. That we're just
wasting money by being open that long. So it's not a significant problem for us if the overall
make-up the neighborhood, and I can see where it could be some security problems for us if we're
the only ones open from midnight until 2:00. I have a concern about possibly my employees
leaving there without other businesses going on. Although we are facing that at all of our other
locations. All of our other locations are primarily located in strip centers where all businesses are
closed prior to midnight and so it hasn't been a problem. As far as the noise issue, we would, I
think the only area that might be a cause of concern would be around the back of the building.
We don't permit our employees to go out the back of the building after dark for security reasons
so they empty all their trash the next day. They bag it up. Put it by the back. When they get in
the next day they take it out so. We don't allow them to you know enter any kind of security.
We send two people to the bank. If there's any kind of a problem, they can throw the deposit in
the safe and make it the next day. We have very strenuous security procedures at Dominoes
because of our past history of you know having problems in the early days of development of the
company. We've developed quite a few security measures to ensure the safety of our employees.
So we have you know timed safes. If need be, in certain neighborhoods that we find, I don't think
this will be the case here but we've had buzzers on the doors to let people in after dark so on and
so forth. Whatever we find is needed, that's what we'll do. But as far as the noise issues, I don't
think that will be a problem, after 2:00. And because of our security consciousness I don't think
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Planning Commission Meeting - January 7, 1998
the crime or the security will be a problem for us, although it is a concern of mine. You know if
there are no other businesses open in that particular location, and once that center's closed down,
you know it's a pretty remote area whereas a lot of other strip centers are either located along
main streets in Bloomington, Richfield, Edina, so on and so forth.
Peterson: Noting that then are you requesting to be open until 2:00?
Ed Carr: Yes I would like to, and like my main reason would be that we have a history of, we've
got 105 Dominoes in the Twin Cities right now and I would say 95% of them are open until 2:00
on Friday and Saturday night to accommodate you know the people who are out and I mean this
may not be a direct issue but I think there could be something to be said that people are going
home you know in time to order their pizzas rather than out driving around you know looking for
food after the bars or whatever. You know they know that we're open until 2:00 so they, you
know most of our crowd between 1:00 and 2:00 on Friday and Saturday night is the bar crowd.
They're going home, ordering their pizzas so that's the only. That was one of the positive things I
could think of for being open later. To get the people off the roads so.
Peterson: Any questions of the applicant?
Joyce: Are you going to have tables and chairs in there?
Ed Carr: No.
Joyce: So it is you know.
Ed Carr: Yeah right. We're pretty much carry out and delivery only. That's the formula
described by Dominoes in my franchise contract. I could get a waiver to that. They have allowed
that in certain instances. If the Planning Commission felt that that was something that was, but
because of our free delivery and our very timely delivery practices, most people have it delivered
or pick it up on the way home from.
Joyce: People...
Ed Carr: No. As a matter of fact we've only got one store I think in the Twin Cities that's got sit
down and that's over in Har Mar Mall. That was a specific situation where there was no, I don't
think there's any delivery out in that location. They've got seating because of that area. That's
the only store that had seating in the Twin Cities.
Peterson: Other questions? Thanks Ed.
Ed Carr: Okay.
Peterson: This is open for a public hearing. May I have a motion to open the same and a second
please?
Planning Commission Meeting - January 7, 1998
Brooks moved, Sidney seconded to open the public hearing. The public hearing was
opened.
Peterson: This is a public hearing. Anyone wishing to address the Planning Commission, please
come forward and state your name and address please. Seeing none, may I have a motion to close
and a second please.
Conrad moved, Sidney seconded to close the public hearing. The public hearing was
closed.
Peterson: Commissioners. Ladd, comments?
Conrad: No, none.
Peterson: How about the timing issue?
Conrad: I think that's a real, stafl's recommendation is appropriate. It absolutely has to stay at
the hours of the shopping center, but I think over time.., and you'd know why I said that. The
hours of operation. I think over time though they may change if they're...
Peterson: Thanks. Allyson.
Brooks: I don't any other comments.., we're not in an area where there's.., crowd. It's pretty
family oriented. You might get one...
Peterson: Kevin. No, thanks. LuAnn?
Sidney: I agree with the other commissioners...
Burton: I don't have any other comments. I actually would have leaned towards letting them stay
open later but if they can come back at a later date... I don't have any problems...
Peterson: I feel the same way. I think that given time he can come back and present a compelling
reason for a different time. I think tonight you didn't necessarily present a compelling reason to
change from what the rest of the mall is, strip mall is so... certain do so at a later time. With those
comments, may I have a motion and a second please.
Brooks: I move the Planning Commission recommends approval of the amendment to Section 20-
694 to permit fast food restaurant without drive through windows as part of a shopping center (not
a free standing building), as a conditional use in the BN, Neighborhood Business district.
Joyce: Second that.
Peterson: It's been moved and seconded. Any discussion?
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Planning Commission Meeting - January 7, 1998
Conrad: Yeah. That does mean that they could have sit down?
Aanenson: If they would choose to. We're not restricting them.
Conrad: I think that's great by the way. That is part of a neighborhood shopping.., so I just don't
want them to lose that option.
Peterson: Okay.
Ed Carr: ... regarding the, I just wanted to make. It sounds like you're all pretty much in
consensus of, you know of the hours but I wanted to make sure that there was a clarification of a
point she had mentioned about the other store being open until 2:00 and it served that area's need.
We don't go into our other store's boundaries simply because we design the area to accommodate
you know a safe delivery in a certain amount of time so we're not having to drive miles and miles.
So the driver's not having to rush around so we wouldn't be able to serve this area. Obviously the
people can come in and pick it up until 2:00 so that wouldn't be too much of an inconvenience. I
mean you know driving from there to here but we wouldn't be able to deliver to that area because
it would put too much strain on our existing, you know area so.
Brooks: ... carryout.., studying.
Ed Carr: Right. Right. That's why I didn't have a big objection to the hours because I don't
think it's going to be a problem either. Not like my two stores located down on 494 and the strip.
There's hotels. Any kind of areas where there's college students living or younger people. You
know a lot of apartments and things like that so I don't think it's going to create an impact but I
would have just had liked to have that flexibility in case the need is there to serve the public. We
obviously don't, if there's no business to be had there. I was wondering if the manager of that
store had called all of you because he's now going to get an extra two hours off every Friday and
Saturday night. But anyway, he'll certainly appreciate that. Probably send you some free pizzas
or something for the cutback in the hours. Anyway, we'll take a look at it after we open up and
you know I guess if the need is there, we'll come back and give our case.
Peterson: Point noted. Thanks.
Ed Carr: Thanks.
Conrad: Under open discussion Mr. Chairman I'd challenged Ed to, you have to ask the
neighbors whether they want that service. It's not whether you feel you want to supply it. You
have to get them demanding it. We've worked with them.., your deal to prove that they want it.
Not just.., and if the public, they'll be here.
Peterson: All right. We have a motion and a second.
Brooks moved, Joyce seconded that the Planning Commission recommends approval of the
amendment to Section 20-694 to permit fast food restaurant without drive through
Planning Commission Meeting - January 7, 1998
windows as part of a shopping center (not a free standing building), as a conditional use in
the BN, Neighborhood Business district. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Peterson: This goes on to Council?
Aanenson: Did you approve both the conditional use and the change in one motion?
Joyce: We just did the amendment. Now we've... I'll make a motion the Planning Commission
recommends approval for conditional use permit #97-6 for the operation of Domino's Pizza
located at 2407 W. Hwy. 7, based upon the findings presented in the staff'report with conditions 1
through 4.
Peterson: Second?
Sidney: Second.
Peterson: Any discussion?
Joyce moved, Sidney seconded that the Planning Commission reconunends approval for
Conditional Use Permit #97-6 for the operation of Domino's Pizza located at 2407 West
Highway 7 (7 & 41 Crossings), based upon the f'mdings presented in the staff report and
with the following conditions:
1. All signage must comply with the City Code.
2. The operation shall comply with all conditions of site plan review #86-2.
3. The hours of operation shall be from 8:00 a.m. to 12:00 midnight.
4. The applicant shall obtain a building permit for the interior remodeling.
All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Peterson: Now the question, it goes to Council?
Aanenson: On the 26th.
OLD BUSINESS:
Aanenson: ... The Bluff' Creek was scheduled, Bluff' Creek zoning district was scheduled for
the... January 12th but we moved that to the first meeting in February because Mark Koegler was
not able to... I'm not sure if you got a letter that we sent to Mr. Erhart and the Planning
Commission was supposed to be copied on that. He donated trees to the City. Did you get a
copy of that? Okay... Progress of things that are happening around town... Craftsman Home up
at Walnut Grove .... housekeeping. The Planning Commission terms. We've scheduled now that
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Planning Commission Meeting - January 7, 1998
in April that is when we... terms that expire... Ladd and Kevin's expire in '98 so... Then just to let
you know what's coming up on the next agenda... Park and trail referendum. Todd Hoffman,
the Park Director had asked.., meet with the Planning Commission...
Brooks: ... stakes... I am not against having stakes.., strange people staking while the kids are
outside...
Aanenson: I'll pass that onto Todd... had a couple that were very concerned about...
Brooks: Also they're on... properly and I have dogs.., dogs have a right to be on the properly too
and obviously I'd like to know, because it's my responsibility to put the dogs away.., when
somebody just shows up staking, I have to...
Conrad: ...that's neat but seriously on another issue too. Whether itbe right-of-ways or, we
really do.
Aanenson: We do. We've had that come up recently.
Conrad: ...bad idea to be able to...
Aanenson: We've been talking about that.., so that is important... And then I hope you're all
seeing what's happening downtown. What's going on with the hotel's moving along.., people
looking at the Legion properly.., that's all I have under ongoing.
Peterson: Did we have Minutes to approve? I didn't get any in my packet so.
Aanenson: They were there. I've got a set.
Peterson: Well, ifI can just get somebody to note the Minutes from the previous meeting.
Sidney noted the Minutes of the Planning Commission meeting dated December 3, 1997 as
presented.
OPEN DISCUSSION:"OLD TOWN" CHANHASSEN SCHEDULE - DISCUSSION.
Aanenson: First would be the Old Town. Sharmin and Cindy are going to work on that. Cindy
just finished taking a class down at the U on architecture.., preservation and Sharmin's very
interested in working with the downtown so they're going to kind of run that project. The first
issue we had.., gave us direction on the name of the Old Town. There was some concern from
some of the neighbors of that area that were concerned about the comments that were made.
Sharmin and I met with someone that lives down in that area and we had a very positive meeting.
They are very interested and very excited that we're taking a look at their area. They kind of feel
like they've been neglected in a lot of the growth issue. They don't have lights there. They're
affected by noise so they're very excited to be involved. Sharmin did send a letter out and I
apologize you didn't get a copy of that. But she did send a letter out. She's having a
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Planning Commission Meeting - January 7, 1998
neighborhood meeting on the 13th. The way we set it up is we're going to invite anybody that
wants to attend and to have a core group, and what we've done is we've kind of laid out a
schedule for you and we're.., with the Council too. Trying to get this done in April. There's not,
the urgency that when we first looked at the moratorium.., we're in control of a lot of the parcels
but we do want to move the plan along. Get some consensus so we kind of laid out for you a
schedule. Meeting with the individual properties and there's some other interest with Southwest
Metro Transit looking at a park and ride. Some of those other issues. St. Hubert's looking at
their properly so we do want to keep it moving along and we also want to include the
neighborhood and they're very excited about an opportunity.., the neighborhoods that are adjacent
to newer developments seem to be... are very excited about the process. Getting an opportunity
to... share with you what we're doing. Oh, I'm sorry. First meeting is Tuesday, January 13th.
It's going to be at the Senior Center... again share the process with them and certainly... 6:00. So
we're excited about that. That will be a good.., kind of what we've done with the Comp Plan.
OPEN DISCUSSION: COMPREHENSIVE PLAN UPDATE.
Aanenson: The comprehensive plan update. That's moving along very well. And I just wanted
to share with you kind of what we're laying out as far as the schedule and again we're showing
this to Council on their meeting on the 12th but we're looking at that second meeting in February
as the land use component. And then the second one in March would be the public facilities and
transportation, sewer, parks, open space, storm water. Also the capital improvements plan so this
is really an opportunity for you to understand and ask us a lot of questions. Understand... and
then in April we'll have our, the reason why we had to back this up was because we... consultant
on the traffic which is a very important component and we're not going to have their number until
March so we had to back that up in the time frame and we really want to have better
information... Then we're hoping in May to hold your public hearing. It may take several public
hearings. It depends on... It's a lot different than when we went through the process in '91
because then there was a lot of discussion on what the land use should be. We decided that with
the Bluff Creek overlay. Really I see the issues being MUSA extension, rate of growth. Those
kind of issues. Not necessarily look at land use, and those are critical issues but a little bit broader
issues. So that's the schedule we've laid out and then hopefully get it to the Council... and then to
the Met Council in July. Also what we're planning to do with the drafts.., we'll have it all on
the.., and we'll be putting this article in the letter, in the newsletter....so then anybody has an
opportunity to read any... That will be nice to have drafts available at the library.., open process.
That's all I have.
Peterson: Anything else?
Conrad: ... people...
Aanenson: You know actually lately there's been people interested in the southern end of the city
where it's going to be opening up. It's surprising it's not people on the inside... There's a lot of
speculation. The Council's going to feel the pressure because right now there's a lot of jockeying
of position for opening the MUSA. What's going to be next. The Council... How fast should we
grow and that's a critical issue. Also change the.., how much growth can we handle. At what
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Planning Commission Meeting - January 7, 1998
rate. A lot of people that want their properly brought in now. That's going to be, you're going to
get some of that but... I think that's the reason why we have a lot of issues and again that...
although I do hear from some of the larger stakeholders that have all been in and talked to me over
the last few months. Kind of asking what's going on. How are things going. And I can...
Peterson: Anything else? Motion and a second to adjourn.
Mayor Mancino: ... schedule and... Planning Commission member, if you're able to make it to the
neighborhood meeting because I think it's the... One of the things that I'd like to see, and I was
talking to another Council member about it and I was asking the Councilman to let me know what
they wanted on the agenda for 1998 was, was as we were talking about this district, this area in
the city, to say it's a jewel. How can we replicate it? What is it that we love about it? How do
we take it and replicate it in other places in the city and you know, is it appropriate in other
places? Well maybe yes and maybe no but what is there to pull out... The other thing is that I
think it's great that the neighborhood is getting involved. I also think when we're going to craft a
vision statement, it sometimes needs to be very important for people to attend these meetings to
draw it out bigger than the neighborhood so that I would like to see in this schedule, the vision
statement, once it is crafted... It then comes under the Council and kind of... the Council on that
vision statement and then go back to the neighborhood again to make sure that we're all kind of
aligned in that vision. So if you can make it, I would just you know, urge you to go. And
hopefully a couple Council members will go too. Kate and Cindy, on January 20th, provide
analysis of the gathered data and input from the neighborhood and properly owners. Is that a
meeting?
Aanenson: No, that's just a time line.
Mayor Mancino: Okay. So this is something that staff will be doing. Will be taking all of that
information.
Aanenson: Right. And then if people want to see what were the summary comments, they'll be
available.., reporting those back into your packets. I hope that's why this...
Joyce: Are they here? Where are the meetings?
Aanenson: The first one's at the senior center.
Mayor Mancino: The one on the 13th is at the senior center.
Aanenson: I'll get you a copy of that.
Joyce: That's the same night as the park thing.
Aanenson: Yeah. That one's later so you can maybe come a little bit...
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Planning Commission Meeting - January 7, 1998
Mayor Mancino: So it is just a wonderful area and I think this is great to get the neighborhood
involved. No question they care about it. Getting back to a few things that were said earlier
tonight. Those were good comments. When we went to the trail meetings, and I was also you
know one of those property owners that has the stakes in the property and said what's this?
Who's been on my property or what I think is my property, regardless of whether it was or not.
You know it's one of those things that everybody was just kind of up in arms...
Brooks...
Mayor Mancino: Well and many people were saying, whether it is their property.., you know
they mow the lawn. They go out and.., sweeps it every spring so everybody takes an onerous
position and it's a good one.., help us out to tell you the truth so it's kind of a possessive feeling.
I also wanted to get back and just let you know that we haven't, and we don't have it on the
agenda yet. Talking about Coulter Drive. The last meeting that we were at... together, we were
talking about whether Coulter Drive should go all the way through from TH 41 to Galpin. I just
want you to know that the Council hasn't done.., yet and when we do... We are planning to,
actually the City manager and I were.., work session tomorrow and kind of plan out next year's
calendar so that.., come to work sessions or... and I'm just here to answer any questions.
Peterson: Questions?
Mayor Mancino: Mr. Conrad? Absolutely none?
Conrad: A couple funny ones.
Mayor Mancino: Well ask me some funny ones.
Peterson: Motion and second to adjourn.
Conrad moved, Brooks seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the
motion carried. The meeting was adjourned at 7:40 p.m.
Submitted by Kate Aanenson
Planning Director
Prepared by Nann Opheim
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