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1990 09 05CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING SEPTEMBER 5, 1990 C'~..i'rrnan Conred cai~Led the meei'5'~ng vo ordor a'h 7~37 p m~. ~ MEMBERS PRESENT: t add "'onrad. v__ .~ -rim, . ,Erhart, c.oteve Emmi'~',,,gs , AnT-~ette E.t.' i~'~'on.~_,, SrJ..ar~ 8at.7_.l.i snd Joa~ ,~hrens MEMBERS ABSENT- .'_T;im Wi!dermu. th STAFF PRESENT- Paul Krauss, Pianr~ing Director; Jo Ann Olse'n: Senior PUBLIC HEARING: JERRY PERKINS OF POPE ASSOCIATES,_PRQPERTY ZONED IOP, INDUSTRIAL OFFICE PARK AND LOCATED AT THE INTERSECTION OF PARK ROAD ~ND PARK PLACE: A. ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT TO ALLOW AND CREATE STANDARDS FOR A VEHICLE INSPECTION STATION; -- PRELIMINARY PLAT TO REPLAT LOT 3. BLOCK 1, CHANHASSEN LAKES..~pSiNESS PARK 5TH ADDITION INTO TWO LOTS; SITE PLAN REVIEW FOR A 4,042 SQUARE FOOT VE~ICLE INSPECTION STATION. Public Present: Name Address Barb & Russ Piurphy Roman Roos Ned V.: Rukavina Dennis Palmer Jerry Peri<ins Stanley .I. Krzy~icki David 8ras~au A1 !verson James ~ischer Richard Andreasen 6451-59 Park Road 10341Heidi Lane 5275 Edina Industrial B~vd. 5225 Edina Industrial Blvd. 1360 Energy Park Drive 5275 Edina Industrial 81vd. 1313 5th St. S c %,ire 322 Hpls., 55404 1500 Park Road 1500 Park Road 1500 Park Road Sharmin Al-Jarl pr=s~nted~-~ ~ the staff report, on *his~, item. Chairman Conrad cal led 't:.he pu. bJ. ic hear lng to order . Dennis Palmerr. Il have a brief slide presen, tation if ! may. My name is Dennis Palmer. I 'rn the general manager for System Control and I'm here tonight with Stan Krz/wicki our manager {er the ~ro.ject.. Systems Control. is...clean air company. We're protld of our reputation~ Our presentation tonight is to the community of Chanhassen and ,4e~re asking tonight for permission to locate one of our vehicle testing facilities in the cemmunity~ First !~d !ike te give a little background if I can~ The State of Hinnesota exceeds the federal requirements for carbon menexide~ Carbon monoxide is a hazardous pol].utant with long term exposure that could be harmful te people., it's been determined by the federal government that carbon monoxide is mainly produced from automobi]~es~ 5o in an effort te improve local air quaJity~ the state of Ninnesota is adept, lng a vehicle inspection program, ihe program is designed te identify vehicles that are PLa:-'~n.'Lng Comrr~.~.ssiol-~ Hecta. rig Sept. ember B:~ 1990 .... Page 2 the gross r~o]..lu, ters~, As I said~ it's goal is to improve 'the air quality~ '.:3ystem.r~ Control has designed a fast automated test~ ihe test invol, ves light duty vehiclee~ Diesels~ trucks~ heavy duty trucks~ tractor trailers~ heavy' duty buses~ rllotoroyoies bsi!I, not be involved in this program. .lust automobiles and light duty vehicles. The stations are operated by Systems Control.. Syster~]s Control is a Hinnesota Corperation~ private corporation. Ne de pay taxes~ Ne~re net tax exempt. It's administered by the HPCA~ the Hinnesota Po].Aution Control. f~gency. They're the agency that Systems Control has their contract ~ith. ~4ith over 20 years experience~ Systems Contro]. has become the industry leader in this business. This is our only business, b~e test cars., Ne den~t repair cars~ [de don~t sell cars. 'i3es~i. oars. ~t~s our only business. ~de operate similar programs California~ in Rl, asJ{a~ i'n the State ef Hashi'ngton~ in il!inois and in Haryland,. R.le~re starti, ng a program for the State e{ F~orida and of course the pregrarn here in Hin'r-~esota~ [genre proud o{ the contribution serve made to these cer~munities. In Hary].and alone~ their program ~hich is siNilar to this [orograN in design is credited {er oieaning U.p er reducing carbon monoxide by 2Oe tons a single day. This is a facility in Haryiand~ This station is Y years old. Rio started our program there in 1984~ He take a tot of pride in construction~ In the maintenance and the landscaping of our facilities~ bdo have clean faci].ities~ I started in this ~}regram in 1983~ I started ~ith SC in 1983 as a station manager for this program~ ~s 5harmin said~ a vehicle inspection station is net listed as a use because it's ne~,,~ se if I could take a minute and explain some of the ceNparisons to sorne common uses that ~e~re familiar Hith~ it~s a service business~ bJe lust test vehic].es. Ne~re a service business~ He~ this facility located in Chanhassen Hill~ their traffic fle~ ~ill be somewhere between 1/3 and a 1/2 o'F the average sized HcOonald~s in a single day~ It's similar to an auto bank ~here you drive t. hrough~ You step for 2 minutes and you drive on. It's strictly drive thru. Host facilities are bui]~t larger than they need te be to assure that there's r~e back ups in traffic,, Ne~re net like gas stations because ~e do no repai, rs~ There's no repaiYs at this facility. It's strictly testing, lhere~s ne underground tanks~ No proh].ems v~ith disposing of oil from crank cases~ It's strict}~y testing. I%..~s a house of computers~ This is the net~gork design for the State ef Hinnesota~ One of the requirements or one of the criteria b~e use ~.~hen locate a facility is cenvenience~ Host people Hill net have te drive greater than 5 re.[.les to a facility on an average~ That's our geai ~x~hen b.~e locate a facility. Ibis is an aerial photograph ef the Chanhassen site. North Jig tO your }~eft~ The ].o~er portion ef the photograph is ~udubon ~ead and the site is lecated~ I~m afraid the arroH is kind ef dark but it's ].ocated in the ].o~er right hand quadrant of the phetegraph~ lhis is a street map location~ The location is e,n Park Road. This is an artist renderi, ng of our facility. This is a generic dra~,~ing. The facility located here is 3 lanes. The facilities are brick construction and fully landscaped. Here's a landscaping plan $harmin had shob~n at the entrances em Park Nead. ~gain it's strictly drive t. hru~ !here's 3 lanes~ The front part and half of the ie{t hand side is bermed. ~gain~ an elevation o'l~ the facility. Three lanes~ The section ~4ithout the garage doors s. re the managerial sectien~ There's a manager en this site~ This is a picture of eNr operation again in Hary!and~ One of our rather larger facilities~ ~gain~, it's skrictly testing. ~xclusively testing.~ Ne do no repairs~ The motorist simply pnlls in Hitheut appeintrnent~ Pu. ils into the bay. Is greeted by an inspector The in~, ~cto, puts in the driver s license p~ate. Inferrnation is called up and in 2 minutes~ less than 2 Ninutes actuaily~ PiannJ. ng Commiss.ton bleeting September- S~ 1990 - Page 3 the 'Lest on average is completed. These 'Facilities are basically houses of CO,~qpute¥8. lhat~s a].l that exist in these facilit.kes~ Computers and paper. <~,pproximately 10~ e{ the folks will have te use our in{ermatien office. Host people though ~ill pu.l. 1 in~ receive their inspection results and pull. e~t~.. P~ little bit about our operations. ~gai. n~ it's drive thru testing. The average test time is less than 2 minutes. RJe do recruit ~ocal]',' -['his facility wiil eNploy approximately i0 te 15 people Our operating hours are Tuesday thru Saturday. bJe~re net open Henday and ~,~e~re not oj:)en on SL~nday. inesdays and Thursdays we close by Y'O0 p~N. and on klednesdays and F;ridays He ciese at 5:30 p.m~ And on Saturdays our hours are from 8:00 te 2'00.. ~lso before we select a site we consider the impact. en communities. He'ye crop!eyed Or~ David 8rasiau. Contracted mith Da,,id 8rasiau a local e,-',' { ~. ~ ,,~.~ronmenta! impact engineer~ te per{cfm air qua].kty and traffic studies and a].]. these studies have te be {avorab.[e b, ef'ore~. ~.,~e ~elect 'the sit. e. ~"n ~his~ case again +hey~re~ all Ya~orable, ~ ~ Hieh respect to noise no{se ak~,-.', is fay bi ~ . ...... (. era .~.e. ~ i itt2Le commeJ'lt~ OTle o'~ our facilities in J',laryland~ a-~ter the operation the stations in no b~ay e{fect negatively the local area development. Nerve got doctor's offices~ retail 'e ti eut].ets, even a nt~rsing home had been built after tn~ opera on lhe fo!ks from the nursing home are a2Lways ever having cof{ee and cemp}imenting our manager on how clean and neat the {acility is so He are good neighbors. 14e~re con'f'ident that we can de good here and he~n improve the air lhe federal ~P~, says that He can~ they expect in the 'f'{r e,. year operation te reduce emissions by 36~000 tens and by 1995~ 136~000 tons in a year. are good neighbors and we hope that you accept your staff's recommendation. Thank you,. Conrad' Thanl,-.s for your report~ Okay~ ~,ge~ll open ~t up for other public comrnents. ~tre there any? Richard Andreasen: !~m Richard Andreasen. I~m the facilities manager at the PHT Corporation. I'd like to state in the past I~ve noticed the City of Chanhassen has had a great concern with ne~g projects and hew it affects others and hob,~ it fit. into the community~ I be.].love b)ith the increased amount of tra~Ffi¢.'.~ exhaust {urnes~ noise~ that the inspection station does not fit into the Chanhassen Lake Industrial. Park. ! be]~ieve we should leave the Chanhassen Lake Industrial Park an industrial park~ Yhank you. Cranes Fischer: Hy name is 5ames F:ischer and l~m representing on beha].'~ the employees of PMT Corporation. I have spoke with several PHI employees and ~e {eel that the inspection station would be a demora.~zat~on of some of the people si. th, Hell the empioyees~ He ge outside en break. It's quiet, lhere~s no cars~ The air srne.~s nice and now there's net going te be that if this goes through~ lhere~s going to be noise, lhere~s seing te be the stool. 1 of car exhaust~ I kno~ the smel].. ! lived in Ca]~ifornia '~or 4 years ~,ghile serving In t" ,. ~ r~e mi].it~ry~ I had to have my car inepe~-eed every year. I kno~.~ ~hat it's like to sit ~n line and b~ait and ~ait~ 4 er 5 cars deep. I den~t believe that~ !~ve seen it and I ~ve been in 20 plus cars deep ~.~ai'ting for an inspection on my vehic)~e~: It~s going te smell~ The employees aren't going to be soi. n~ on their walks on iunch:, lhey ~en~k ].ike it and they den~t. Yhank you very much~ 8atzli' t.dhen you ~gere ~,.~aiting 20 in line deep~ was that .just a safety check or lust an emissions check? Planning Cornmission Hosting Septernh~er 5, !990 ~- Page 4 James Fischer~' Just emissions. To get a certificate. Conrad' Thank you. Other comments? Russ Hu, rphy: I~m Russ ~ur'plny. ! olin Hurphy ~achine Company across the s~reet s¢'r'om the proposed s~e and somebody had mentioned the noon Ha~ks. There's a .~ot of peop].e HaJ. kJ. ng on Park Avenue and kt.~s becoming a 'race t. xack. Z bough~ ~he fk'rst. }ct out Chore and Z ~v'e watched each building go up and haJ. f the traff.tc going through ~oDona~d's ks probabky tO times the traffic ~e have right r, OH~ I don~t think it Hould ~Fit in very Hei!~ Thank yo u. Conrad' Thanks for your cornrnents~ Other comments? Anything else? Al. Iverson' Hy name is ,fit iverson. I~m President of the PHT Corporation., I~ve ;Listened to a pretty, heart ',,~armi'ng~ presentation. He're all inte~eot~.d i iq 'l- h (~ (e n v i r o n m e TI t a N d 8 i r r) o .t i ~1 t i o n . .Jlh a v e a r e s p o n s i b i ]. i t y t o m y employees as Hell and we came out te Chanhassen !ndnstrial Office Park back in le~6 and He were toad it Heuid be an industria]~ office park and b, le rnanu, facknre medical snrgical products. He have clea'c reoms. He cater to our emp].oyees. We're putting up a ne~,~ building. By the Hay I k'.~as never told about this presentation. ! ~m putting 1.4 rr, iilio'n dollars into a the st. cry bu.i~d~..ng~ Zt Hi]_]. have~ it.~s built for the emp]..eyees. !here's an exercise 'room~ We have an additional I0~000 square {eot clean 'r'eom. !~e are and we ye been HO'rl~ing... ~.~{tI-... ,, PatTI. and hls~ sta'Ff and. ~.~e 'ree~ that ~hey've reail.'/ been concerned about the industrial office park but this is not l:itlsing. You have to rezone te put it in there. This is not going te be conducive to an industrial office park~ This Hill not be conducive to future devel, epments. I~rn-anticipating as Paul kneHs~ two other bull. dings. OLlr company is greHins very rapidly. He have over i00 empioyees. We Hant to take the pollutants cut of the air but this isn't the ~ocation for it. Drive into there. See hell difficult it is te~ He have people having a rou. gh time finding it and they're going to be knocking on our doer~ hang into our areas. I have employees who Hair doHn the street. They enjoy it~ , a hanson Lakes They take their breaks and so forth and ~e like the Industrial Park. I have i0 acres there. He're putting in clean buildings~ Ue~re ].~stening to the city. We're working Hith the city~ lhis COrldLloive to what.~s going on and I take grave exception te the fact t. hat number one> He weren't te!d about it~ I have a project that's now 2 months eld. I have 2 1/2 more months 'into that preject.~ I {eel very offended that ~ Nasn~t~ bJe Here never notified about this. There are other sites.: There's a let of land around there~ Right off IH 5. lhis geed gent. leman ment~.oned HcDonaid~s. That's right off TH 5~ Put it e~here HcDonalLd~s Somewhere close by. There's plenty ef land. Hot in the industrial office park. PI. ease. ~ have a !et ef good empJ~oyees~ i Hant te entice good quality people k.e come into cur company, lhis isn't going te de it. My construction oonsu.['[lallt. Mr~ Dick Hellstrom wrote a ii. st of things 'that Heuld happen~ He~s~,°° years~ ,,r.M Dic,.. ~ Hellstrem~s, been Herkin8 23 '/ears hu~J. ding hui.~dings for Control. Data Corporation. !i suspect he~s get probably the best reputation in the Twin Cities~ He indicated that he ~s.t propers-} .... Ja.~u~8 ~.~ou]..d f~.~l ~hese ~eaut{fu~,. pictures up .~ ._. '."Phin bout she surrou'nding araa~ x' R,.as there did not ~'hoH an., ~ g a ..... , . a resident of S].orida for 4. years. The inspection stations were a mess. I think should really seriously go x/isit some of these areas Pmrnber one. Humber ·Lmo, the t.~-aff'~c. The tra'ffic for my emp.[oyees is just going to be Pl~anning Commission f,.!eet September 5~ l eeo - page ridiculous. C:ome on. Let's put it out on TH 5 someplace. There's a lot o{ ]..ct,,?> out. the. re. Plenty of !and. This negativel?' irn~,mac~, Future deveiepment e{ your p~eperty ..... +'e the north ihe two buildings ~,.~e~re anticipating. The of{ice bui!dings~ Traffic through t. he area ~,4ill. be greatly increased. Air pelluhion in the area will be great].y i. mpacted~ Cars are the greatest contributers t.e air poA~ution this area~ Hey ~4e're trying te clean up these cars but does that mean that. our company and our emF)leyees and everybody else has te suffer? Let's Set it (.;].ose t.o the highway~ i mean gee k~hiz. !.Jhat are ~,,~e doing to al! these r,,~n~Je ~n an indus'~-ria, i off~c~ park where we came to hawe a manufacturing '~aci]..ity and ?.~e treat our peeple ~ell. lhe area will be much noisier than manager~ Sue Crankee has told me that she~s very ooncerned about the number m ~ q h t, ' -, . ns.,~e been ir. terested in locating o'r bnying '~n t.h~e area ~ii~ be debt. ered ~,.~it'n' the em{ssions facii it.y in the area kn thi ~ p]~ace~ 1' ~- ~,~,1 I be more difficult to sell properties that are directly adSacent er rent properties that are directly adjacent te this special use facility.: Special use facility~ lhis is 'net part ef the industrial e{fice park compiex~ Yhe proposed uses net compatible with existing ~oning and p~anned development for the area. Planned develepment~ bde came in here~ Nerve been ~orking with Paul Krauss. I mean I don~t care if it's a space station. Ye~.~ can't really plan ahead {er things like this~ i~N sure you can say ~e.~ it didn't exist be{ore this~ Hey~ this is an industria~ of-~ice park complex and I think ~,.~e obge something to our eNployees and this is e~here ~4e have to stand pat. ibis is not conducive to our business. Nor anybody. I mean manufacturing is a carreer~ He ge te great strives .as a ]_istings of the ~DA and eHP and e~e~re a geed neighbor~ You know years we~ve never been sued in the medical business~ !hink about, it~ In a ].et{~tuous seciety~ Ne go te great strides te keep necessary to be a good manu. facturer~ This is~ ~,,~e~'r'e rnanu{acturers and we're office parks ou.t there and this is net conducive for what ~.~e~re doing. Possibility exists for owners site to he used as unauthorized park.lng or dumping~ PeopAe ~il], .lust come through~ You haven't seen these inspecti, on sites. And the tra{{ic alone is just net conducive t,e my emp].oyees. ~ am rea_L].y shockeo that we were not noti~'{ed Ni~l {~,Jo to great et. rides te just. say hey~ this isn't {air. .~ ye really stood behknd Paul. Krauss a,~a the Plan,'~ing Cemrnisszon fo,,- ~ lens time and ~e',.,e listened to them. !,.,lo'we bent: over backwards. ~4e've made changes t.o p.Lannkng to make our faciJ, ities fit and I feel reaLl, y somewhat personally a.ssauited here because we've listened. ~.4e've bargained. He've commu.~/cat, ed. b,~e've, ~ shouldn't say bargain but compromised, i mean the v.~o~'ld's a cornpromis,q~ but this isn't conducive to bJhat Me came to the' . ' ~a~¢ s to have a clean environment Chanhasser~ Lakes lndust:.r~al Park for and t for our employees to b~ork and this is not going to fly. Period. i thank you {or your t.tme. Ne have a growth company., bde have over 100 empkoyees: no~. L.,Je~'r-e doubling annually and i hope you understand He want to be a good ne.tghbo'r but this isn't right. Conrad: Thanks for your comments. Other comments? Anything else? :Cs there s motion to c].ose the public hearing? ? .)_ a n n i 'n g C o m m .,7. ~ s _i. o n ~,! ¢.. e t September 5~ !990 -- .Page Erhart moved, Emmings seconded to close the public hearing. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The public hearing was closed. Conrad' ,iftJst a qu. ick cornrnent before v. Je open it up 'For Planning Comrnieeion ........ n,....:.,, bJhat is the projected traffic count per d*y© Denni.?; F'aJ. rner' bJe aveYage approximately 400 vehicles. Conrad' :ql']d does that grov; over a time period? ,get, his'; Palmer' That. q. O0 vehicles is ou.r...s, nd that 400 veh";cles is the !i. im.O. tr-': {0 ~ ........ . . . · . ....... ~',¢:::~ it does gro,.4 so the ,fi;,-s1:: couple year.~ Conrad' %0 ma,xirr~um capacity is 400? !.Oenni:~ Pain'le.r". N,'",,..... that's noe~ ti'lo capacity. The, ..capacity is approxima'i--*]v..~.,... 250 per .... ,~]. Iverson' Z:-3 that 1.~000 cars'? r~ennis~. :nalrne',*' Tt-,at's the capacity, yes sir ~ you've 4esigned it for 1,000 au. tomobi].es a day'? Dennis Palmer' That;s to assnre that there are no log jams. People vdill come it'i every 2 minutes for their test. Conrad' 3can, He'll start aL your end. ~,ny comments? Ahrens'_ H:~,.,a_ t..,as, r-h~snhassen... ~.,, chosen for ~hi'~*-~, .... _,. .~.*'~._ seems t.o me lcha~-,~ it Houid be mc)re logical t.o locate a center lii,~ this in an area that H~S more easi].y, accessed by highways and maybe lire c~ose~. , te ~_Uden Prairie. Center er something like that. i k'neb~ there Has an-extensive study Hhere it mentioned in the staff report Mhere it was d~termined tha~ 'Phc t ~ere 9o~ng to be located strategically in places a~ou. nd the T~in Cities but 'this doesn't seem like a real great site to Dennis Palrner: b~e!l He typically locate in industrial parrs and ! recognize the concern of the ¥'leighbors~ I hear it a.l._]., the time~ I don~t Rn¢:~ hell to prove to ti~e commission that that.~s not the ~gay it is. lraffic and air pe]_~ution~ lt. is a quiet facility.. It is clean~ Ne lecaice convenier~t to large population areas. Oars exist in this area~ lhat~s a station i...3 ].ecated ip, this a~,'ea~ ]it~s net intended te dra~4 cars from other areas into a c:ommunity~, bde are near TH 5 but we avoid major highHays ke assure there are rio traf'Fic preb!ems. Ahrens: Ne {ii 0 ~ ' ILI have a ].et of people out there~ I mean eJe sgill be dra~,.Jing a .]~ol- of people intzo this area but !ocating~ If th~s 'Facility is ].ecated in Chanhassen, it .b3i.].! be drav~ing a lot ef peep!e to-this area. He aJ~ready have prob].ems Nith TH 5- gig ?roblems and so that may be contrary to what >'our [ntent is. llqe result may be contrary to Hnat your i'rltenil, i.s. Oenl'~_i.s FC'a].rne: Ne use rise Hetropolitaf'i Council's TAZ counts v~,hich is {-.rsf~i,--~ , ~ }~_;c:,nes to locate Nhere .peckefe, ~._... of ,eopt~laeien.. ~. ~ , :..oeepie.. exist.. They're ember .5 ~ .i.,~ ?-.gO --- rz~a~'~, .~ .... ~ ,-." facilities ......... where 90%, of 'khe peop]~e nave to drive no more ~'~,~,~,, .~, ~ relies ~ Ou.r :~8()s.! i':~} 100%; and !chat is to service the 'Fo]~ks to the west as we.]~i as to the imrnediate ea:~:~t c,f the area. lhere are -Faci!it{es located north o-F hhis - . ..... "- ' ',;~ ~ draw about midpoint ',h'~ .... ,q !4here will t. he}..' be located'? Savage and in s-ise Bloornington/Rich~J. eld area~ listens Nhere~s +-he HinnetonKa ..L.uCc~ .... on? ©ennis Palmer' I don~t kno(^! ,.exact.~'/~ $tan cou].d help Stan K'rzywicki' Tt~s~ rigi~t, off of ,i~'>,~oD..,rg~'~ Par k which ~s{ r ight off el. ~ ~Hepkins border. OfT of 16e. ~rebab].y un~ nearest crossroad Heu. Zd be F-,,hrens I~hat kind ef area. is ~[.at: I can~' picture Nhere that Start l<rz'ywicl<i~ Cedar Lake R...ao Krauss' It.'s a major intersection~ lhe're~s residential c!eve!opment. High density resAdent.{~ai development 'to the north and east. lhere~s an indu. strial park te the seuth~ There's a nice residential area in ltopkins across Hirlnehaha Creek further te the seuth~ le the west is an operatins fjravel quarry. P, hrens Is t' - by ~69 -nd c isior 81vd '~ KYauss' No_il-..~.:,~ old~ that~e., Hop'-ins,., Crossroads and... Ceda'i ..... ,~.~,.'---o Roa,::!~ Ahrens: Okay. You. know l~ve been through these be{ore too. I lived in I].].~.nois and my experience with them was terrib].e~ I mean there were ~. s ~ec. dr vet~' long Nait. s. lhere ,,,~e~.., s. JNaye ~.'Iots o-F, cars and-F'rJ~t~-..~ , .*' ~ ~ o because they did have to wait so ~eng and that's from what ~ ~ve heard from some ~he ot. her people t. onign~, have experienced th~ same thing and i ~Ja. sn~t sure if that had just. happened in l!~inois but it sounds Like that. happens al.i over the [.~lLace ~gi~h ..... ehese s{t. es~ TR',~s looks very srna~] .... to me~ You have 14. parking spots here~ 'louVre going t.o have F empZoyees and ~0% of the people who use this facility ~,,~i!l be parking t,o use the information center risht? n :~ n n L :s P a 1 rn e r ' T h a t ' s a ,~ .~ ~ .~ i m a-i- e ~ y ,-- s m a ~ a m T h e'/ ~ t ,, p i n 5 r,, ¢ n u e vieit8 and they leave. P!ost. peep!e p.~,i!l drive threngh. Ahrens: t,.Jhat, happens when, I think the parking~ I mean I haven~'l: seen any ef the studies ef ~.ghich this report refers se ! den~t have any information about '-that,.. but i.t ]..ooks, 'koo.~ smaAi to me. . Considering4._ what'._ m},' ~.,xperience~, has been in the paet~ there's neveY' been enoush room. They're aiNays over crowded and t.~here~s a].ways J. ong lines of cars. Dennis Palmer: I can't speak for your experiences~ I ~m sure that. t. hat happened~ These fac];]~ities~ like ]i said~ are Bullet to accommodate 2 or rr'~ o'r e t .~ rn e s t. h e n u m b e'r o f v e h i (: ~ ' ' .~es anticipated on an average. Lde meet ~che Codes u,.!ith respect to parking and t.o the State's guidelines~ September .~ a.n Krz. bdicki Rs far do par ~g is cc) ncer,q~,~ ~y ' - ~rl · 4 staff' people at a 'L.trne~ The 40 people ~,,s.~. He had 'LaiRed abou. t.~ because t.,.~e~re ~'unning 12 hour d.0.?':s~ 7 and F on 2 days~ He aetua~!y have part time pc:c)nle ?~c)rkins a'L the stations se e~r st~ ~in8 level ~s 10. The people "~}-~.st N(;:,¥?' in 'k. he lanes L,.Ji!~ he par~- time peoo]~ those prn{~n,~e ½a°mrJ orJ the number of cars you antic~, . ~..- ..~ ~ ~ ..~ ~, if ~L o.~-~-.,.~.P,=H ,Lp tomorrow? Not on 400 cars or more Then have rflore empioyees r'ight? ..... ,o" ' correct. qLan l<rT_yHicl,'.f_' No No th .... L s not ~ What He'd actuallyldO iS} ',~-':'] 1 ,~.,r...~, 'fa '~ight There i® a mode of testing b~hich rnakes the ~ '~ .... {-i-'{o tes~ so that staff Hould 6 people plus '[raster wh.{.,:sh i:s a euo~ p~bh ......... n ~ .... 4-. s: t c~ ,.. 'i o n rna ri 8 g e r . yOU. c. oNld have 7 employees. c..s.. -. ¢~nd that Houid be ~h.o maxirnLrr, .... t..~n K'rZYHfL'Ski ~ Ahi-en'.-:::' li~.:-'.}n you'd i~.ave ~On ~,~ .... hap.s, approxirnateiy 400 ca,-s going through a clay? cta.n ',.< ' ~' ' .. ~ N lly, as you ~, ."rx/Hicki' !he 400 cars is %he absolute p~-ak orma reca]..!, in I].].inois, there Here certain da,/s that you could go in and you coulc{ .just ' reeze through inhere are 3 bje~.ks Ahrens' I don't knoll u,~hen that ~as., ct'. y :- ~ , ..., .e. rl K'i"21 t4i. cx.i There are 3 weeks du. ring tne month t.i~at are like that. The ].ast Heel{ is Hhen He have, u~hen He test Inost of ou.r vehicles. P, hrens' I don't, knoll about t. hat but if you have 7 employees and you have 400 car?,:, let.~s say 400 cars going through a day and l~m focusing en that 1~Llrabe¥' because that's ~.~hat you anticipate in a fell years. Right? Oenni:.:.3 Palmer: Yes fda Ahrens' ¢~,nd if !0.% o-F' those people are parking their cars~ go into the .[riformatier~ center:~ that's 40 vehic]..es over a 12 hour period. Is that it? Dennis Pal. mcr l' · s ..,~ Lhan 4 an how ....... . Ahre. ns _ess 'Lhan 4 an hour I don',., k'''',,. ~ ' - . "- ,~,.~.. ~. ju. st don't, the parking seems, I have a real p'robiem ,,Jit. h that. It doesr,'t seem big enough and Hhat happens i'f you. need to expand? Can you expand in this? I mean can yc)u ~:::vpa-,,.....n('i~. the parl'i., ,-,,g~r .......... m s .... ~/Li thznk';ng about *'¼'~ ~.,ih).., don'~ you move C o nr a,'J ' 8 r :i. s r'~ '? /l. 990 - Page oa. tz~ju~ Nhi'le we h .... the applicant up hex,'-;~.~ I migh'b ~s well ask ~'ho~'~' De.;'~'n.'~s F'a]rn.'.s'r~ 7 years. The program s'barts i.n 199!. and expires in 1998. nave }.'o~ .:?,ve.r cc)nduc'-ed a .... u. dy on the environmental in:pact of t. he o--~'t one c,~ your test fa. cilities? Dennis Palrne'~-' Yes~ Actu. aJ. ly we ',se done ~,..u. uies on b~hat this faciiity~ %~ ..... ' ' ' ' OT ..i~ irnpac:t t..hi~ ....... facil~t'/ u,~~''~ nave to the commu.','~'X.. ~ n 'berrfls ~' en,/irc)r, me~'~t~ Nerve done studies on existing faci]./ties in our other states':~ In 8a!timore for exampie~ OSHA is very concerned sith the pol].utilon levels of the actual ~.nspectors in the facility and they place monitors on the inspect, ers te determine whether .or not there's a health hazard. Thei¥' conclusion was thet it's more dangerous te ~aik do~n the streets o{ do~...~ntewn Baitime're than it i8 to work in the inspection ~auiiity Now ~-hj.s wasp~t their of1:~,~.a~ con,-lusion but there was no ha]-mftJ.] effect. I mean.that was a cemment~ ! mean that wasTl't written but I mean I'rn trying to exp].ain how ~itt~e impact it really is and I don~t know hc)w i.e. 8at. z].~' I t. hink any congregation of traffic is going to concentrate t. he .8. ir pol. lut..i, on in that area se that although it may be within certain c{t~.i, de'i'ines~ {~- wj.i'l {ncrease it {n that given area and t. hst~ ~'he ~,,'ncern of tl~e people here. t~-~nnis ..... PaJmer' ' Dr. 8raslau is with us th:~s' even{ng~ He ~s done a study' on w h a.t. -!:. h a t.. h ,:)u. r c o n c e n t r a t i o n w o u 1 d b e. I f y o u. ~ d ].. i k e t o s~ .~a ~.~..~ ~-, ,:~.~ .~ ~o t. h a t. 8a't. zi~' Do you guys want it:. addressed? .r'onrad' .... 'Yeti're in charge it.~s your queetiono ~ o'~--'~-~.., .... :x_~i- Yeah.., I would like to hear it addressed menni~. Pa~mer' Okay il) r~ Da.:,id ° ' ~ ..... ~' , ~ident of David · ~ ,...:,raslaL~ J"-ly name is Dr. David 8ra~-!a,, ~ m P~e~ . 8ras~au Associatx~s Hinneap,,!is Pdy address., is cornpany addres~ v ) . .-~ ~ · ~ - ~-~ -~ 5th Street. S.ET,, in the old Marshall U High Sohoolt,. ! prepared a report. which is entitled Carbon Monoxide Analysis ef 5 Vehicle !nspectien Sites in the Tw~.'n Cities Net. re Area for System Contrei inc. dated ~ugust~ 1990 and .i.n the report ! ~ooked at 5 of the sites ~4hich are being proposed inckuding the Chanhassen site. bJhat we leek at is carbon monoxide, lhe Pollution Contro~ Agency since the testing site is intended to reduce carbon monoxide emissiens~ k. hey are very interested in inching whether or not the location of t.t~e site itse'if wi].], eau. se problems with carbon monoxide concentrations~ Carbon monoxide iF: a gas ~ghich is pre!omar! ~'l ' ' .~ .... 'Oc-~J. ONly ID high concentration® ~t's very ].ocalized and it i:s easi].y dispersed so that the primary intent ef the vehicle inspection ~s u.,.~ 'reduce overall emissions ef carbon menevide so that a hot spot such as Ft_h and Hennepin~ kake and Hennepin~ 5neJ.].J~ng and .......... kJ'n{vor~.it.y x~hi,-'-h are the '-r'Sr~O ~',~s where the standards have been exceeded {n the pas-t:; that i'F '-he inspention stag'>fens overai.]., erni~si~ns by ' , ~- these sites down below the ~ta. ndard t. hat. ~,g].]l t. he:,n b',-ing t. he levels ~,~ csrF::,~,'t.:, .~.c, mber .'_5, il. 9°n/.~ --- Page 10 mhe e'[ancl.~rd..'[r~ 9 -~ar'!;.~:' ~',e'~ rni!!ion, over a'n ,,~ tnour pea'led,, The standard ~ i.~ ~, ~-~ i ..... {Tltended 13o in:Bt.ire that F)eop}.e, iilc.].o.,:Jil-'lg infirm peojcoj..e are Iici adversely .5 mp,:5~.c:~ ed.. by ,::a'r'bc~n.. mc~nox ide . ~,~e a.~'su, me~ that. for the r-a'rbon~ mo'noxide ' ' ~' ~h;-,re t,,aould be ,.~ capaci~- f 80 cars S 'r't h C:, U. r gj o i n g 'b h r c, u. q 1', +' h e, .~-. R j =. i ~:' t h e ~ x p e c t e ~q ~ ........................ , actuaiqy the capacity ~s !05. Ths. t:. is ab~oiu ~',_.e maximum capaci~...y bu.t ~, .... he normal ex, o~ec. ted maxi.rnu, m ~ ~.,~.,c~ t'.hat ,..qot.tid,..,~ ...... e ~:~o i~,~ -~.- t~ ro,,gh 'chis ..... ~ite ~n 'th~ i r~e~ ~.~: flays o'F '~ h~ month t,.~hen peol3i, e have to:~ in other words peopZe bJi~! procrastinate 'for the 3 s....~:'~el,:::'.: s.'n,-i ~.hen in the !asr 5 days the'/ ~See! 'hhey have to go in a. nd so '[:ha'l: ~:3 t4hen there's a push to l'~ave :~heir veh{,'les inspected ~%nd so ~x.~e ~ool<ed at 8~ cars per h,-.~4'r. Rle project,>d, . ~ 'k.,he 8 hour, ~eve!s eo be le~'~.~., fhe ......... roadt.gay a'r',d 1;;.hae ~,gac~' abo~xt' 30 'Feet, ~ ~..,oC anybody ehat.'s~. -'$, u'rtRer .... away i go';n{~ to have a ]_ot,..~er con,centrat/on~ tde're assuming a '~air'ly stable at. mo~'phe~-_, , 5. c: ,-c, ndit ;_. .~ ~','n<'.. ... M~ '-'-e, assure{. . ..... ng I m,~t,-r'. .. per, ser',-n~'~.,.,., ~, ~.,.~ ~.. nd ~hich ~-~ .... ] 1¥, d.......S~'i ~' ':5~ erse 'th~ pc)~ iutan~-"=, ve~'y much So tha '~' t.,,~e rea~.i.y not, at this particular site, project any sionificant conc:entratio'ns o{ carbon monox.].ee. ! shou.~d poinf out thau carbon monoxide Ls not a, Lv strictly a gas;. The oas is pollutant, it's not a dirty pollutant like d{o.e,>J~ o/bari:st .ere ].i?e ~ . ~c~tes tha~" come o,~t so the projected Aevels . ~ . ~ ....... .~, . ,, . ~ ~. t,,~,ro~_. actually qu.;~e,,.. ~.~c,~,~. The, h~ghest~ .,.~o~-vei<>o that'-, ~ .,.ge projected ~or, . ,s.~,y,,. sit~ t~as a-~-,~ ~_. 4 or .~.., .Lane s{t.e~. ... b~hore._, because.. . o'f:. ~-he, ...... backgrnund leve~ fha*~ ~. tae had to assume~ t'.hp PCA requ{res that we as~u. rne a c~rtain background ~ ~ ........... ~ eve .... 0 add on~-e .......... the ro.edway conce~,tration and the read~.~ay concent.,--~:=e{ ........ on 8eneraZ].y i®,~, r~n~ the order of .~ ~ ~.,/o~ +o~ 9_ pa'r-t~. ~ per rnil!~on ~.~. mhe, backgrou, nd_ leve].~ that He estimated is about I part per million so e~e'i--e talking about at the most .3 marts per mi~ ¢on in ~"he area which is about 1/© " , ............... e{ an 8 hour standard h. io~.t I don'ts knobs,~.m'd_ .be happy,, .. t'o.~ ans~xaer.~ . som,r~, specifi~,.. que:seions., ,.. on thke btlt t.ge don't, at an'/ of the <'iLe®, o,'o,]~ct that the ]~vr~ls ~4i~.i h'. ttq:? st.:~ndarHs T,.n fac '~-: in Chanhassen t4e're loot{An8 -.~ .... , because t,.,~e on.[ have 3 lanes:., ~,.,~e're ic)oking at- about 30$6 of the 8 hou. r standard ever-, t4i.'bh the L,,~orse case traffic. Thank Batz!i: Paul, could '/ou expiair~ to rne why 'this t'/pe o'F a use should be a met~',{t.-t;ed u. se in an 10P a~-e,~.~° ,,rauss: bde ...go e. ~_~,is ,rom severa~ d{ffe'ren~c vie~points. First b~e Ilo'lie that this .[?.~ .{~ State program. They're L.t¥1der a 5tare col'ttract~ '['here's c:,r~iTM r-,r~, ,-~ ehese 're's almost a qua~i~---public ut{l.{ty 'f'c,',~, if you. . .,' ~. ~ .... , ~.. . ~ .~ ~, .a .,.. as a receptor ~'i'~e,., ba~ed.~., r-,n~. ~-hei~-,_. , analy<~is.~ and we ioobeS,., .... at ~here, e.].s:e ~-,J..s,..,, oe~J.o,ed that a TH .5 locaeion b~as not op~-irnal That, b.~e b,~ouid_ rather ~eep,.~ tha~ tra-r-Fic, ena roacJ~,]ay, that ~4as ,iesig'ned it which Park Drive t~aas and hopefully in an area t,,~here it cou].d fit in visually and t~e think that this Has designed te de that~ Me nete that th,s're .~:-tro.~ s,:om0,., fairJ.'y' Nnusu~:li Llses -P hat.. could go in that area ~ For exam~Jte,-.. t'r'uck transfer t. ermina~ is alienable by cenditienai use permit and in {act t4e did have a 'l:.ermina]. developer L~ho was ]..goRing to deve)uop the site just nor t N t , - ...... : ,, of here latse -Fall !,.de tried to d~scourage that and in "Fact cJid eo bu.!:, th,0'l: is n.]_to~.~abl, e unde'r conditiona! use and that is of course much heavier t'raf'[ic t4i'hh d~ese~._ .,~ 'trucks,, Me're prnposing~, that., this thins R~..:~.. ].o,3a'l:ed in an area that ~,,~e think is suitable for it. k,!e think it ~4as c;~ ~.e ~perated ~ ~ ' do=.i~-~ned apNropriately. Rs a ._~.~ ~ ~aci~.lty and 'Phc erdinance c:h,~n,-,,:~ i:::~ ,.,.~ ............ neo that this onzM app].ies to bv. at:e cont'racted ~acilities., ...... ~ type .~.,~.proj~=c+'-. , ..... -r+,~.,~.. bs. eical]y, .,._. a ~..,~orrlet,~na~. ~c'~-~h,~..~o one to S~-,nt. embe'r 5~ 1790 -' Page .i 1 ]. o,:.-: ..:~ l'.~....}::. N .c 1': c., ......... p o s a .,. u. g r a s o n a b 1 e g i v e ,, ,~ n e and som~,~h, ody else gets the bid. Z belkeve there ~,,Jexe t.b~o peopie bidding on ...................... ~ .~ 87 ~de e wo'F ..... , ..... happens~ }t.~s their prob}em. That Snvestment max ~,,~ell be lost. because the ~'~n]y 'l-.hkns th,~.t is ,s].Lo~a~e in tha~ bu}lding is a Sta~e cont'r-acted vehic~e testing ~acil~t.y~ .:~o ~e u .... o cc:,vex our bases kn t-ha~ '~egard t..oo~ S~ ra.~sor~ab].e sit. a~ It could be~ ~,~eLL b,Je had approved Lche FRc:,rne c, ff~ce ' -' ..h~.o ~,.~s.s s. pprov~-~d on ~he corner. Has not. been bus Th~s site ~,.,~as o'rig}na~}y co'ncep~uai~y approved o'r' xevie~ed at any rat. e 'For thst. ~:he Rome skt..e pkan could be rnod~fked to accommodate i<ra,~m.s_._-'" lqe'..ha©.,., in conve~.'ma+~o~',s.,, ~"~th~,~ ci°-.~, and I believe he~:,_, here tonight. and can ,address that specifica].!y. Conra(" [)c you. Ma¥~t t.o fl:peak Ror~ian? - . ...... aTM e,.xke~ pxocess~ scarf dfd advise me o.¢ t. ha~~- ~ast b.~,eet~' and ~n vie~.,s of ~4hat. ~.,~e~'re f~','~slg to gets a.c:compl~slned~ I have ~ .... ,.-o,,R~,,it a sma.l_ ] e'r" accepted and.. told sta-Fl: ,..h ....... ~,,le (.,.Jould go ~a"P"¢~'*"4, ,~ and coo .... , ..... -' ...: .x an¢..~ ~,~e a'r-e ;n Ehe prn ....... of 'r,~ci~'auing the si-i-~.~ plan ktse! 8~'1c{ k. he i'"ar kJ.'n¢~ 'For same In' av'e heard a lot of ¢onvexsat. ion.,, thi©<, evening and I ~'gt.,.,ess I l:~e. 1 both s~os o'F it because ~'m aiso in the park "r t.h d.,m,d I hsve to So bat,." quite a. k~a>'s~ ....... 'r sta'r+'~*d ~Jo'rking Hith Systems Cont. roi hFefor~'~ ...... Chanhassen e'a'-':, even sel e~--t'ed. ., .... .~. . as a s{te~ and ! had the epportuni'k'.'..., to ].oc:,k at quit. r:, a.. few of the o{fferent_'~ projects' 'that.~'~ne}' have now _ .. ~,-~ ~- he United fStates and I ~,'~ {-F we ,3oLi].d have a c,n o m p A i s h e d '~ h r o u ~ ~, c u .....t .~..~ Lne fu.t. ure s.s to p.mlhat is qoing to be ',-equ{ ' ' ._ ' , .~red in the State of Minnesota, or ...... ~ ...... '~', ~Ib~ to sdr~'r~¢~' that { ssue Elut when "r.. iOOL-_ ,-., at ~-}-,e~ facil i+'i. es~ .. . t;h,e'>.,'ve,, . done to date,., and ~'r'rn mtaiking aboul; hhe a'r-ch{tectLlra)~ '~ 'x ]-es m have to say that in the Chanhassen area riont. Pc,',~ ~' . .... 5~ '~'he corr ...... , ... . su~, , and C:ou. ncii i eel abot~t TH {dot and iool(ing at the transportai'ion sys%em L.oo~i. ng al" .~u.¢. ~_.,_~¢~ ix'd}L~ ?.J'{'. ~ O'n ,..?- . .... --,~-,-.. }..S,,~. +.~ ~1 led intersection there and i ~m sure is true. . I 'm ,,~r>.'. .. concerned about ~,.¢ha't i pu.t next door +-m~.~ +'hat.. particular. 'Fac;, ].il3y. I think if i'+- ¢S done ~ n -hhe cohc.~ n ~.~i{eve over the ]as~ 6 months~ tnat you can make it a re'fy desi'r~,obte for al--iotJ'3e~ -.L>,'po <)f of'ri<;e bu~iding. !t has t'J be controlled. That ~s Planning Oornmi .... ...... ,.~ion~s respons~bi~ity~_~ '~he{¥', .,., charge i~, you will t.o City H"].i to r-o~nc:.LA and ~ think w{tln '~-he proper co~,t¥'ols from staff · think ' ~ he ~, ,-~,+' as far ~o PHT and Hurphy Hachine act'o~*' u str,*¢,t and my buikding ~,.~hic), i.s righ ~ behind ~ ~- yes T ' ' ................. ~ .... ~ ~ ~. QS.O COT'lOerrl ,. ~ ~ve t.h,r~,,jght, s ~c:,t. about th.st:... There's .just. not the economics on it. As l co'r,,'?.rnec'l about *'hat. ~.,'~'~- ! fhir, b it. sil~ ........ ' ............. ,, ,. work _~'F ..{t~s he!ct_ _ in ~"he~. ~.._.a~:~ise and the ,r4i-F-Ferent ,../ie~,,.~s ~nat. I ye sr-~en ir' t. he other st,~-~s tna.. ~>y.~,u~m Cnntro h~:..,s ~¢¢'n?,rr~p).;lshod ......... ;n +he ~¢~,.o~... l'rn c:,pen for any questi¢',n~ ..... you might have. And yes i ~i<4 .asx for a ~ ..... J. Lr,, ~ '~ o r d J. n s T1 C3 ,'~ ~ ~?-'~.,o.,..x...~.'i.:' 'rf~. !,..Je get t:.hat far ~"r t¼ink,, we should, bxoa. den t:Ja:~? ':::,~- o!::.he~ 'f:]_arnrnab]..e or part~ are ~o].d or ~tored on the si'L:.e. I ~d ai~o ,_o t. axe ~ look a'u making -it potential'iy a conditional..,,~e.~ rather t.' ~ .kl perm" '%'11~-'4.:. ...... u.,.:-:~.:2 . Y~.~ , Ns~... '~' h ~ n k~ t~ ~d. ~.~ t hey should~ belong ' ' ~,_. t4hat IOn~,- {'~ sl.4pposeo to k,e, T do,,~t '~eat!y ..: ........ - .... a .; ..... ~.. ,:::~r !:.rs~:{;{c as something that shou.i.o De].Ot~g i.n t. here, bJh.?i':.h~-:.~'r J.t ~s 400 cars a day or 800 cars a day~ i ~Jas actuaily su. rpris:ed to ~:o:o c:(.~: a ,c,:.~ndi'Lional. u. se the tru. ck transfer use as a condit ki.Lson k. et.~s see. " ,sonar mind having Cnanhassen be '~he sz ..... ~x ..... -"~ive up and *'hitags a] ~ tes'l:~ n~j fac.~li, ty an,:i I read. Ay doubu ~i13h so many ,~r ~ ...... 8. rou¥'i.i khat i'l:.~s going to be really a poilut, ant to neighbors and things ].iRe that. I'rn concerned about a couple things, One~ this thirig cou.~d be temporary. 7---8 >'ears you l<no~.J, b,Jhs, t do they do with them? I mean do you I,~.s---,, a hi. story of ever c]_osing~ one and ~hat do fhe}.'~ . turn iR'k~r ~e'FIR { c.- n - I,ie clop, ~t. ~llson'~_ ,,and sghs. t so~,'~-'-'~-~, o-~, '~-ingoe~:, , ...,. Do th~y~ become d~'ive----up, ..hanks or ~hat kind o!: thin(.js do ti~e>' do? Den¥iis; Palmer' o..--~nerally~ T th{~k that th-is prograrn and i~r'l ;~s:k Stan. -r th~nk the State doe8 have thx~ optio~, ~'o rna,'-o~e ~'~' 1-hernseJ~ve'.~ ..... . o h s i 'h ~ . ~-tlso'n ..,o c ange are pret.+'y rq-L. ch would s:tay'~ Dennis ,°a.!.rnr~'r I {.l{e .'il. say, uhx:' b,'.4~ '~{ ¢ ~- os ]~'>' pu ., - ,__ '- ~ ~o_n8 .,.s rn t. corn te¥-s -~ h~-.,s~ ~-omp~,ter~ , +' he value of '~;-~ ' ~,. ~ rn{ imai ........... . ....... building zs Ellson' 8,4t you. knot4 it is a brick construction~ Fair].y substantia.t and yet there is a pot. enti. al of it being temporary as 'Far as having the c,ont',"d~'-:~' r~n,,,t,.J.S4 or ~,.Jh:.~t ..... /er and T s~:~e t:;h~ nj. ce Chanhassen sayJ_ng ~.,~e[~ ].et.:~s work a ~a).' of making th~s bu~id~ng work-For something else someday ].stet do~,.~n the ~oad and ~ ~,.~s.~ b~onderkng kf ~t~d never had been done bef'ore,~ ~hat. ~t could poss~bZ}' become and it 'reaZZ}' seems ~ike ,x4e shouZd be ~ooking at it short range as bJo].], as ].ohs range. Uhen ]1 ].ook at it short range ! ~"hink it. m~sht, not ev ©n be tk{s in o y '~he h +' uld ~ ~ p e nt .... be or have tt'~en't ever become is one of my' concer'ils. ,Kra~.s~'.'. . ~, bJei!~. .,~'~ cl{d., ~ disc~. ....._,.s that ~,,.~ith the appiicant©,_~ or', ..... occasio'n be~s. uee.. ~. I had i.:_h,:~ sam .....--on,~.~',~r~ u..~h~,,'-: X found out ........ ~ .,-- ,~ , ~ L~. ~ - -- t ~ . -~ , ~-, ~ ~ ~ .~, you. kno~.~ it's clear u.¢.,., me as; a bua'F''¢` erson interpre, tting the ordina'nce ~'h.'~, ..... only. '~' }"~ ~ ~'lg~ ..... it. can be,'-orne..._, is Nhat ~s,. pernli~- ~ ed,_~ .~. o~, ~-ondit J. ons ]...~ ~ .~fn the ordinance. !t. can't become a Hardee's or a. gas station because ~4e don~t aL].o~,.~ ti-rose t. hi~gs in there. Ill there is an eoonomio loss t.o be absorbe.d ~..,ecause the building ~s u'nbuyabie as an}.'~h~ng e'!se~ xhat~ the de,,,:~iope'r~s . Io r ?' o ]. c~ fl'i - ~, -' ,~ attic: '::~son Okay~ a'nd then t.!~ ~ ~ ~ouid have i~s the ~'r"' ~'~ ~ ....... ~,o o~g ra'Fi~e conc:~T~ and ]l ';n I'~,:.7:.11. col'~vinced s_:~ to t4hy you chose this ~ocation ou.t o{ convenience yel; },.'ot_~ dc) n' +',., t.,~ant, it in a !cea'Lion 't.ha~t. t4e normail>' ha'%/e conve,~,,~;ence t. ype c,'~, 'F,aci. J~.~-Jes. ...... ~ ...... ,, Pa,..t~._ ~,-~,:~..~. .~,:~.~..~.,_ as ~'h,e,.. ... applicant calk .... abc)u~"~ ..~ that~ You did'n"t ~,...~an'L t.h~ same kind of piace -t. hat t4e'd have t,,¢ith convenienc:e center c,-.-..., ..a Har<ioo's or :e,::)rr~ethk~'iS ].iRe that ..... t4hfch are bkti~'¢.~.-, as far ..~*o~:, ~'~'affic~, 'flor ' - ~r' h¢~ J.~k in and o,,f .just li .... a cj~.t~.ck { n s~',rl c) u.%. ~,ot ~h~s one is ~oii38 c.o $. qu. b~ c:onv,3nJx~nce store o'r- just !ike a drive up b~nk so t.,~hy aren't t.,,,e -bhinking of ,-, 1:e i'ng i'k Nhere 'bhose other ki.,, .... o.,.aces ~,Jou .....,.. Can. you shed ..,~or,,¢...,,.. ¢. ~._ ~. ,._. , k'..,-- a t.. ! s s .... r' ;:: ;', h Y c.t.. :' ,.,, ,,.. h e ...... ,,now I aisc ~,4ork wi+'h ~ HP, _. h other ~:'i.er~-:- are -f.1.'/?.{<2s.].].7 i.R oNr c. oni3r.P:~], bkJ. SiTleSs district. Ou.r cent'r-ai bt./si!'qess district u_, ~a~S a pr ecious l J.'htl,-. .~ SL[pp].y Of' ~a'Nd ~~ Rote'n+' I y ................... He ,'~i. scuo'eed +-c.h,.~:~ ' ' ' ' ~' "~ t h · -,., pO?:::<;ZP:,Llit., of 8. r4a'c'-~ee 8 c,r~h';Iq..~ e Amoco station and ~he'r-e '~' a ,4 - 'F .... r~ +' ~h ~r .... . ~ or a ,_~e~t]. c) c~,nc:ern ss t.o ~,Jhether or o~. ~ a,. ~as L. ~: ....... A ....... '.' s q u a p d ¢ ¥-; n g a -r: e ~,,.~ s ::,.' o ,,. ., ha~.'"ve fo'r a. ..... veh;c:le tes"cir~Cd s:'batio'n ~,-~hi,'-h ,of re'rs s~'r .... i. ces on.c.,~ ~ a yea~-, 't'.c, m~c, ht. do rnighl:, be a ,,..~*~t~ o~ ~'h ~ u. noxt 't;.,:) H,cOon.::~.L,J's for that reason or in the Market Square ~hopping center . ~- t. ~o ~' '~bi'..' ~hose s~ ~ -r ..... ~d -For u. ha ¥'~a, .. ~ .'r'~. ,-oas ;.. ~ ..,.es are c.,,ibabie -~-'h~ n~ i:.h '- ~-h J. ty 'd be s+' v ,~ecting ~ e s .... ,, a, .... e ,:; woui be .~ set ed though by pro~ fhos ites~ Ei].sc:,'n' Yeah, i can understand the standp, oint from our resources but if re:~,'-,LJ.r,:2,?.s asid,~ i guess l~] thinking there ar~ a lot more logical places o'f quick in and out that. people could potential],-'.,, see from a major. '~c, ad, and...test'.irlg ground or whatever, i'm taking it from the fact that. they're testing year round right? You don't gust have seasons of testing. oenn{:..~' Palmer' There's a I_0 ~n...,,~,~"one¼ Lesting period. I understand vehicles are net registered i'r~ January er February~ !'~ you buy a non car it's r?,o:L.':~'~"ered .{n those months but *,~h,e;n they'] I ~.~..~gn~-'~ "zo'-..~.' a st. icker 'r~o,~',--- ¥'-,t'~--~- . . h .... ,- ........ ~c run the test a,~ ..... ,~... rnnnt . lhe...you need the 'i',-~"~,'e{on faciiity· ~' , GLvet] that ,.here wc)u]_i h',e very ],.j.~-I-.L~:~ tra'Ffic thru .lanu. ary ,~.i~o February The fac:i~ity is ~.o.~,~:~ ......... , .,. ~, ...... -~ ~,'n oper~ .... ion of lO rno¥,~"hs b,..x'b ie v.~izi be open I E].ison' I don't think it's as convenient in that I0P. I gu. ess I ecu ~t.' mc)re in a business-Fringe, or sornethir-lg like t'~r!e~L. or l'ike a. ~ se].''~,_~ knc:,~,¢ing that., there's r',n~y ......... ~; ,"~ .... v, si~:.e~s~ ..~ e'f:t and i *rn ....... probably sL,re i~' ~' a lot mo're expensive for a.n applicant, to go into a place there than tt I. n~'re bLtt I cJc)n't. ~hink~ c75~ c,~, '~-ne.~ ,pooch1 e. ~ ~ are going to. be ¢oinn~ , ~ ~he're~. ~ a.r~.~. going.._ ~ I--,--,..... i.{,~c)~,.~. -khat ~;~-':s.~ easy to ~,~",~-.~.~ to . S". ,~, i :~,-~,~ ,~.~.~ I don~t see ~.{t .~{n the i OP. ....... · ' , . ,.~.na iv found something th, at belongs -F ~. i ,'~ .:'~ ,? h, o I rJ -, ,-~ ' t; m ..... n t [ ~ a-!.; k e t ' s..~o,...~ e ,a, s,.. f a r a s w h e r e -k.~ h i s m i g h, t :g o ......... to f'i '~ ~.n a ~,.,~.~;y *nd y'et on '~-h,-, other hand I ca,', ~.,~c:,t~.].."'{ ::~o i don''~' '+'Inink {t belong© in a commercial area in the central %.. ~. - . ~.. ~, , , ~ ~ .~ - , ~-'~'.~ ,...~ 'hct or anything ..... ~ ,..,.,.~ine8% .:i;:::: ..... i ¢ke '~hat bu ~- I guess i've con]e arou. A,! -i;,:} 1-h.{'n~.-'i.~c-i !.Rat. maybe ~% c, -: ...... . ....... ~ i0 ~s th¢~ right p~ace or it ..... ~ it ~ going to so Sewi-efflh:,er o ~ ~':~:?0 - Page id ~r sorne,,,Ji'~c-?'re.. ! ....... ,e: ,~ot:. ,x.~. ~e~.~ questions here~ 'Fell rne that. th~.s is a m.~sta, ke t.h,? roof . ~ha.t, makes -',~,,,,. ~-.~..~-o,,. ,,_:.~, , . ~1~,.,. ~ me too ~ ie~. says the Olanning, ,:l I] ('J O C~ :.}3 N O t.3 ~ ...... .-.' ' ~ .. ' _ and hod, .. ~,,~ a ::~ ..j u..s .!:. u n a -- . ,¢~ .. Nay ~.,~e ye albJs, ys done those~ going .,.~nto ..lots and blocks, if ~,he~ subdivision. th~ns, ~,,.,~e do ~' ~- '~ ' ..... ~ ~ .... . ..... elirninary plat F'~r~nn.il:s p;, i rner ' yR;,-- ,s to ...... r",r""Sse-~ overs.~zs,~, ...... . ........... ~-., .~..~..,..,. ........... :.:. ,... '.:., .~ ~ ~:.,.;, .4 V e h ]~ e :.E~ ~ Emmings' lher~ !'m not clear on ;,~'hat, it Mas sort of my understanding tha't Dennis Palmer: It's vehic;ies u'nder 8~500 gross vehicle ~geight~ There ~,~il! · t:hat, can't fkt. in !:.he '!0 'Foot. door ~ Gl. ass t.'r'ucks, bde a!t.,~ays had one !ane ~ t~ -.; ~ -- - o~:.t.z].i. $o?Cox inet. anco t.h~'~e are s"' v 'nd ?,~', ........... ep ams a ~.nstructien boxed trucks, riS. i.'3 S.':" g .~O :~ run h'r"ougr: here as :4e i. Denn':s Pa]rner' I-? 'Bhey~¥'e .under 8,500 gross vei~ic!e ~.4eight and they"re gas p '.'.D L,...I 0 r d-~ C! . Ernmings' Nhen I read this ! ciidn'~t have any strong 'feelings about ih but. I o.~ess 'l:h~:~ 'Ul~k'n~ thatc s boLherir~g me 'risk ~ _ - .~. ...... -' ' ,_ no~,.~ is pr irnar i]_y the ~..omr .... nts ~,~e've ~',eard t. hat people that have had experience ~,.~ith these st. ations other, p.~a,:::es have said. that traf'Fic tends eo~ back,. Lip ;~Nd..~ cars sit for ].ol'ig pe~'iod, of ~'im~ ._. and that bo'hher~'... ~. rne a ~1~+',. ~.. .~Y <~-gueee~. I~, I cou'! d~. be sat{ s{{ed ir'nnortant enough that it x',"ght to be t. ah~x~d and se ought to find ou.t · I-- he exper i once has Ns, e¥, ~. n o~" her p.Laces or else tha4'' ........... ' . ,~ ought to be fou. nd Oklt het~.,Jeen u.e and the C:{*y n¢".L~'f3C:i] ' mars backed ~. or m'orfi¢'ehl~,g bec:au.°~ a ice o{ ' ' k.tp there .ere :{~{.!3t3i1'1S 1:cDr VEer'}/ ].Oi']g~ ! mean :Lf ca'r-s are com.[lng in and getting c, ut in 2 rninut, e?x~ .l~rn not too much bothered by it really. 8ut the}'~ra sit'-in9 ~', ........... he'r"e l.,acked u.p~ tbe~, ~ th ~,~nk .... tha'k ~s d[f'ferent so t. ha ~..~x- a c. oru'F~z,~-!;_ah, lc: vo!:it'~r~ on this.. "" 0 TI r :E~ ci - T { rtl, ~ ~'ind of excit-~d about this be~ r ,, 1.".~"~"~ ~lsy;Jl', ~.-.. _ , . : iou.,.. ,. c,ov,~,'e,,ient,. ,, this_ L4OtLld be for ril~~,~ ]tLS~-.. t~,~ d," i~/e_, . scroc:s.... .., 'Phe..~ it ~ 'r '~':"~ ..... ~ ~y su. rp'r'iseS tha ~ ...... ..... . ..... Y ~::,~:.~., ......... anybody have negat { ve cortqr~ef'Itr~ 'F~-om the .... .,. ,. u.. .. ~_ c:, 'n :;; ~ had to kin4., o~ d~,c:ide '~he ~ u,~~ ~ .... "~ ~ Ii , t t'.. ,~;~"-:.., ,:;;a~'~ you sh,ed, ...... so*',e ].igh~-... ,c,n this oth~.r., use that people have a requ_i--r-emen'L to do somethJ, t~g ~,¢ith t. heLr cars. They So in and ~_.,~ 'Lra~'F~_c on t~,~: average ~,~oul. d be about i to e cars a rain at;. F:,e~:k tittle. The questio'n then is, ~,,~h}' don't Me ai!eM gas stations in the I 0 r) ,'q { '::: i-. 'r' { ,'- t .' .¢~ .¢~ ~ ~ ':<faust:*: I tlc;ri'l:, knob,.¢ that i could ans~.~er that effectively. Yhe 10P ciisl;'~'J~ct F;reds!:.es rr,,e. ! kno~,~ there t,.~as serne desire at poJ. nts in the past I;.o of{er :5:ervic.;es that 1,4e'd].d be utilizable bp' ~,'esideNts o-? the induet¥ia! pnrl{ :i3t;.c_-.l"~ .0:{3 reets, urants, that sort of thing. Chanhassen has a.]_,,4ays been rskher re.strJ, cti'~/e on ~.4here gas stations locate. In {act'. ordir:ance ar!'~e'i':,:..!.rii...f:.,N'k.:3 b~d~.r.::; appro,./ed ].ast year that made it eYen rllo~.-e restrictive $'n eye t;.¢:,L~ards lirrtiting the number ef intersections there found t. hat. So Y'rn a'ffrs, id .T..don"l:~. have any -epeci'Fic in{:ormation 1:or you. 7 'r" h ,:~ r ~"._ ' _,~- c, '~".. h e 'r- e ' .¢¢---' n o c o n { .l i c *.. ,~,~ i t .h h a. v i 'n g a g a s s t a -'¢._. i o n ..~ 'n +'~. h ¢~-.. ..t n d.. u. ...¢. '~.... r i a i ,::;~-Fice ,e~.rl.'... ..;,~.,. your .,,:n;nd.. . as a pro'FessJ, ona~, planner, i~, Z~ ,~.~'an use 'Lha',~'... term©. >, ..,:. Krsus:'.'.?,' If you had an industrial park that's la¥se enough ~4heY'e you're _ .-- d~m d, 1.{' n np ,.- IT SO~'t O~F situat, io very 'r-easonabie to locate specific facilities taiic;,red ~c;,'r" that popu!at'.io'n. Opus 1'I ha:.~ 12,000 people ~¢orkin{.j there every day and ~j,,,,o ,-t~e~- -~ ~...Je don't hav~ any'~hir, g like '~hae b Jo have 6,n00 em~!o'/ee~ J.'n ~-he a{'~'/ ss o"N th.:2 c,"un~' tR~:~.t Shem'i/Ti con'ip2Leeed goodly nt.tmber bu'L they can adequately be served by our central bu. sJ_r~ess d,'.s, r ~ .:'::k. .?;nd T '"hin~{, ......... our bu. sines:s cornrnun'~"y ,,ouLd.., ~)re{:,~r. ...¢ %lrh:,-~rt:' 'E.o you~':-.s sa'?in{.~ you ~.;ouid expect a gas station to serve the p e o [::~ .1....~ .% n '!: h ,:'~. J. n d u s t'r' .~. s ]. p a 'r' l-.'. :-.a s o p p e s e d t e o u t s i d e r s c o m i n 8 i n'? " ' ~ I", b,J ha f : ' ' ~, ' ' x-.rak_~.Sc-:; ,ed .... ~t. r~,ozls do~.~n tc:, is 'r don't think ;t's really .?~ f:) ?.::, r o p ~,' i ©. '~ ~ i lq ,:3 I..Z "r' C 0 II {; e x t . ~rhs. rt:' ! didn't u. nderstanci. 'Fake a. look at the general bus{ness d';strict ~,.~h{ch J'.:::: ti"~e '~ringe comme:'c~a! de',.~e].oprnent, l,.Jhat's the othe? o~"!e'? ,.rs. uss;: }'-I ~. g h~.,~ay h,u.~ ~ 'ness. the reason ~h>' this use couldn't be in there along ~,]ith ' N ].1, 4'h,e¥o'¢.-' not district:::;: Aay in our COrririqLLi'iity, they're in and around the central business district and 1:.he s. vaJ.!ab!e sites are very iimik.sd. They oftentimes have e x p o :.:~ u'r-' ~::: t ,:::, 'r' s s i d e n t k s ]. n e i 990 - ,°-aoe ~6 was very cont'rc)versial when it. first, came i'n~ That s{t..e next t.o HcDonaid~s i'-- ~ ',',-" .? ~.: ~ ~ mu.'" ~ '.., o n ~:,'x ', ~ ~- h ~, p c, s s i b i ]. i t i e s h e r e T ~ ' S a v a { i a b ~ e T t ' s o n t:. h ' - .,.. rnarxc~.. I he.~ie'ue. It v~'~',ld~ ...... presurnabiy generate io,N~- ......... t.r~-~'F''~'~c .~,,,~is ..... as , ~.,..~.:'~. ',/..: ~ .:::.?.'~.:'!. 'k."~'night than HcDon.aAd ~s v~ouid~ The (~eR~r:~. si L~..~ m.~{ ght L)e '~'~('~.~,,~ !~.t i-.:u:,:.: k.. .:t.:] 1 ,.,-,-: '~;.i-",ose ,~'r".:~ areas that f he ,.~it>, ~,a~. ........ spe~,~ .... ~ great deal .~.r: + ~ iT~.e .... ! t:,T % ~:~'nrt m~'~T',r~y ~ n ~~i'~' ~ ~g ~ +' tc:, coal~nt, tO ~ r~;~l .... eT!t.r~! ~--,-,har~" Fi{* ' of ...... :,c Yo'..'.. should sc, *"o~'e oft. er, but ~;~ r e a t i c) c: a t:. i c:, n vJ o u ]. d '~ x t. ' G a r 8 r o w n s t. a t i ,~' oe 'F~e ~o }.' ~s ~rl a'0d ther] (~a'ry oc:,u]... ~ go ~-..~ ' -,-~ng {ght out '~-'he door The bus{ ., higl']~ay. Fast.. foc)d restaurants. P~u. tomot~ve service stations. Do we ..... ~d~u 'r-epa{~ ..... *'~ion in '~he bu. siness park nov~? l<rm,~:nm There's one in hhere by a condit..%~',nal use peT-mit ~ ~.,nn "~"~ au. to repair use that. we have in the bm48.~ness park¢ do yon have the Olsen It t~a:s before rne. The radia'Lo'~- s~ore. Er,hart.' F~,u.t. o Unlimited? Ruse Nurphy" That service center or v.~ha-t, ever you wa'nt-to call it is ...bo.i~dS_~'ls. They have t~4o automotive places in there and llhe other ~'en;~;nts J'~ the bu{]cl~,-g can~e even oa'~k there '?ou'~ 8oif!g to n'iJ.x 400 cars uJith ::.;emi 'hrailer's trying to rnanu, e,,zer in here~ n .... ~n ~ have vJ,t-h ~he ~'~'~ ............. ~ .... lng as ~,-~e gc:, along here is a coun]_.s and ~'m not s ~-,~,~ yo~ kno~ zt's sort of described .~. ~ pl~..~ ~,,~here *~h their 2 minut~ and leave and at <2 E~ l' ~; O O ~l E~ i'fl E~ ri d g c) ~. h r o u L-~ a problem bt.~t, you k'no~4, ls somebody going to want. t.o cc, me along and expand th.a pr,:)gr4~m to in,c:].u,:i(i-,:iie:sei:~:; at some time? N..!og.l do !4e knoN2 Isn't it na,_u, ra]'* It's: well gee, you've got }'ou~ 'fac:~ii'cy. The at. ate's (3 (') I'I {'; i' ,EI C: 'I] N.[il, h yr"' T-h NOU. I ' t,3 ~LLde t ............ d be n.~z. tura~ i~"~c ha ~ testing t Palmer'-. That:~ a diffe~-ent, ~st. ins,~.., er, t.{','e!>,~, . mhat~s,, a 'test for 1. a t-. .... e rna 'L t e 'r- ~'"~-~.~'; e s :~.'~ ~ ~ ~:: c'~'- e a '~-`.. e d u. s t p a r .t-.~ i c t... ~ o., ~ ~ t e . N. e ~ r e n o t e q u i p p e d t.. 0 :~ t. i 1~ g r .s o r), l r C e S ~riqal"l".' [)o. yoL!. t ..... dy(:; E~TIM -faoi 1 ~ ~ xes ~bF''~at. '~st diss~I,~ 8 a'FtypJ, aoe t. nac you OOeeQ ~Jith recornrnend~ng approv.a~ ~:-~nd ~ st. Jl! haven~!:, decided so Z~m hav~ng a hard time but. Z think thexe~s e,~ ~e~- r ernents we should edd in here. Number one~ X think ' '-~ .:..Rr, ,]d st'r'~'''~-~+'h~' ' ' ,~ . .......... . ..................._ ooth the c:onc!itions hexe and the oxdinar,~-~ to .:~'~"y t. hat ...... , ~I-,~ mate'rCal, s or anything e]se !:her.? i:-3 no o.Jt:;¢J, de stora~s.~ of materia~ or ¢.a.~ ............. ss-' ............ ~;ny 'ti. me. I 'Lh~nk b~e o:4g'nr. ~' t.o spec~f~ca~,.y~ prohibit v~u~uing'- ...... for d¢.~esel ... .,,,~:¢r~i,:310:3 a~l,ti ., ................ ~ ...... ' ................ ii'qr~ ho~,..¢ b;9 of veh¢.c~es ~.,Je ~¢ant corn~'ng 4n hex¢ it's one th'lng "- :, ~¢ ' here ~' sorne ¢. n ~, ...! ss t: .,- iai ........... tx,,r-l-,';.~, that. are s.j. lo,4ecl ...... , *'be, ..... 'n '~ 'bhZ,',k,, "u' ~, veTy xe' .e. ~ personalS" .i-hir, k ~,~,~ ought, to iook at - ....... *' ' " .... ~hUL.~ ~g uhe ..LI i'Fi~ .~r'rqC?~i~c:e.. ~-, V~'¢'18 O'r ',e-¢rnit. t. ed',n +'here no retail sa.i~s ~he other ~hing 'is ~ha.-*'~. th~"m {s a?; p 0 i i i'll.:3 ,:~J ,:1) U. ~- ~- · ¢ .- . .~.. ~, y e a T' ,3 0 T! t r a c t. x Z ~ iff iq o t ,~ ~>c, .~r-c, this is under a 7 yea~ or o,,.-c ,,,hic:h. Nl'~a% happens a-~ t '~ '" ............ ¢~e end of t. ha'¢ '"' ¢*'¢iod¢ ! c:ar, see vis~ons ,~", .--,,_~ ..... do~,..,n on ~ ' sitting the're ernpt}' for many years ...... . .... ..~,,,,-,o .... ar:,a'r'~dof'~ed' ~.~r. xl- ~. they really become u. nsi. ghtqy~, then. i ~,,JOU'~H.~.¢ thinx,, t.''-+'~,a :5: ]. Iq C e .t- h ;~ :1.~ I-. h { -' ¢-~ ' TI d e r iq e r x~ o '~- " , ' . .... 1 ,..:, ~. s u ,c o ....... a n d t h e r e ' s n o t t h a t rn u c I ~ i n v e s t rn m n % rnay'b.:~ ~,.,~-s sl'",ou i .j r~,,"~'~; '~"e i n t~'*,'~ col'~ditio~a. ~ (~s¢~ '%J.a L. s d ' ~ .~ ~ ,.... lot. 'n..,.o ..... 'r .x-,t ur ned ......... -k.c, it's natural sf'at.e or someth{'ng, i t.'~inl,'~, . thio~, is a -raoidly s.'nd I think ~..¢it.h the iack of investment, in this faciiit, y, i think u.j~:~. _ o,¢.:" Fl_._..= 'il.o be p'F,oteci3~flg, r,~,','=,¢~lves from a sudden cha''*¢'~'~,,;=,:; ~%nd I agree ~ { ~ ..................... .~¢ gO aReao a rr! ,:.:,r~.a'n ._ c:,r sorneone states t. hi ® chou. id, ~ ¢ ~4e',-e qoing ~ ~ ' -' ' nd ke an o~'.:dJ_n.anc:e ,:::ha,'"~',~-~ it ought to be ~ conditionsl use as oppo~ed '~ .... a ~ I ~ ,.¢ ) _ ..4 ,.~ .~. i~ ~ . porm]t, ted use. ~-, T ' om co r b~ieh t.h~s. Z maybe agr oC .. i'qave :E: e floe 'Qs ..... ee w ,..h ._,eteve. Maybe ~,.,i-,~:. nCed,...¢, to get a }ittle b1'~,.,.. more information. ,.T .guess. my feeling ~s i.n general, again I ~4asn't oppeeed te it but ~...~hen yeu have an .o r e a a n S y ~,, ~ r ' .... i g n b o'r' s c o rn,:= { n a n d o b .j .- u ~ a c h a n g e o ~" u s e i r, i t ~ "' Lh{nl{ t:.he:re's a lof of rneanins to thae and so l'm real co'ncs~ned ~,~'¢',ut so I g,uc~s:~ 1']_! rr~ak~:; rny decision Nhen someone makes a motion. ~'nn'r'acl ' Co }'o~ ' re ~..,jaj v.e¥- i Nge x., U .. whet Na ................ ~ou co .Id go ei~ ",..on -~-, a,.-"l'.. --.j ci..r,"-¢, !<'.~0~4 thaL.~ I'm going to be.¢ able- +'o~ persuade, a'nybody o'ne ,,~ay ..... ~ x. e no problem ~i~- ,~eing to,ca .... .....~h c~ n h,::~" s~'e ~-,,,. .~_'¢ ~hink, .... it's great, tha* this 8lee ~,Jou].d ~, '* e her e .'" don'~'~. hav~:," .qny_. . prnb].em .... ~,¢it.h po].lufion ~+',.~ 's kmproving pollution . ~ ~'hink.~ t. e r r :. f i c a g a i n. I h e p o i i u t ~ o n ~ s p e c t. s u s t. d o e s n ' t r { n g ~,,.~ i t. h rne :'nto Mc:Do'q. s].d's and c._ars going into ~.his sie..e. ~"* ju.s;~"c ,R, ave 'no probiecr, ~.,J,'t.,k,, ~..i'-,aL ~,.~hat. soeve?'. The quest.¢.on in my m~nd is Nhere it's ~oca '~-~4 i.n "gh~,.,~ay hu:n;~ness N{thou~- a doubt seems app'r'epr{a'~ ~nO 000 ,ssa-c: s year s.~,erns like a high~4ay bu. sineee type o¢ ' se and 'LP'at's s.:;.;~-'~- ......... .:::,'~: Nh.r.~'~' ;'~' 's designed to -'-uake. industrial, park, {'*-,.. ge~..s marg..{ r~s ]. and ~ .t- ~ ,.'-~ ,- .... :}s .9. re 't5r}..'~,. { T~<,o tO.. ~, .':~ 8 ~'r"y ~ , ~ a,-:~F:,ro~r~.~;;tc, "- . -,-,::.~- .... ~t ? ,...'~hznk ~he,~ c,e~.o ~.~..ne fo me r~sht, no~ is i~'~ s a 'ne use. It's a use su. rpris.~.n9 the neighbors a?~d ~'~rn, as va, u said, those ......c,e 'r , ' uily becak~s~ ' "~""~ ..... o"~'r~rifteo i ' n t . .. ' O0 u .... a ~ieio'nai use ~,~hich means :st. anda'rds~ ~c my bao f~?c:~ing 'r-.{<~' ~ " l',~v ta'F ~ take a .1. oo ~- ~'~' '~he ...-~" -u.u.r~cl&'~¥, ,"~x_ ........... ~hat' r~.~ou] d }'u~ ~pp!'~ cab].e b. ased on p'rob~ e~q~ from or. hey' . ' ~,,~ .... 4,, id ' ~ ' t.'r'~'~"ic ~'~ cornmu¥-it.~.eq:. ]~ d be ve'F7 co~lcerned if ......... ~,~.x~ u~ ", 8 TI~.iJ 4- doeo alii: a 'r .s:~:~ ~ de 'nt i:.hl, nk t'l~-~ ~- ~ , ~ , ~ , ......... s ~appropr'iate. That. S Pot ~4hat they re doing. ~qnd I also ~¥'ons~p~v lc, n,. ....... : .~.~.. hat..~ ou it s pr tica.~!y imposslb]e h t~'h. {n rrna. nd I I:h{n~ .... r~.~,4 , .... ,,.~ .... ,~'~ to p r o b ]. e m b e i_ n g ?x. p e r m i t. t ~ d u s e i 'n h i g h ~,~ a 7 b u. s { 'ne s s ~ ! d o h a v e a r~ r o b i --~.?con~r'r~er~c{.. ~-'hat. .......... ~,..~e ~s.,~arc~, {t out The gove~ni, ng '. ........ ' .,_ - ' ,,.~ ne~, a u 'n ' 3. p?! ic:3. nt is l-~', cposing '~.o use y,..~, i s ..... i. · j IS to acqui, e i'rq~orma'hlO~ -: ~ orfl .... her c:ommtlr~l'Lies~ that ............... t,4, .. t .~.r exper..~ qc-e P~'i,;~ related to al l o~,j staff time once they've had a oh~:'noe C o I-i 'F a d ' ]i :b t }"i .'.2 r ,::-3 a :,3 e c o T'i d ? N'r-ha. rt' Another thing that. I ~,,~a. nted 't.o have the next time this comes ..: .... .......... ar' C)t-,,, 8.]r~ght. qo there E{rha'r~ ~. There'?: a n'>,'body? =~ !s!:on' It'~' 'no+' recldired >,el '~ eh~ ~' .. ~o do this ~..~, ...... ' ..~ ~, ..... n,,. ~..~e should be ab'~e ~' ~-b~- i.t' needs ~'- ~-')~ bSILt, J~PCl-I l"IC:,b,i .3.1'icj 90 { I"1~ to r'i~' Y GOLLT]Ci 1 T dc)r~ ' ~ kF~obJ ~:: ......... u .,_ , .~ ~ ,, . .............. ,..,e a pern~,itted use in the hJ..:;ih~.,..~a;, .... L:,u::~;:{'r~e'.~;;s or c.:hc, L~!d it be condit. Zonal use ~n any dist..r~ct that it's ]. o,.c,a L e,:J in'? Sat.:..t ]~'. l-J,",,-~ ].,'~'n''~., ....... , .. yc, u rather ,ha',*¢~'. ~. ¢ ~ Ra~,~, ,_.o~ ~'",> co. ndar ds~ x-.o:~,'.', y no matter k. Jher e C:or,~':ad: Ye~;h~ it should probabi¥ L:e conditionai in L-ot.h. .... ' .. '" n i' 0 ~ rna % ,'.',. o n o Ti ~ .~. . ......... o , 500 9o~.'nq~ 't:o be ,.,r¢:tty_ . .. much li. rnz~.ed to cornrnon ?o~ xs,.. car ~"~a'gfx. c.., but o gross vehi,:;]_c Neight, ~f that's the correct numbe-r, rnighL be a lot o'Y d~ffeY'ent conot'ru, ct~on type delivery veh~oZes and things ]..Lke that ! 9u.c~s:~ I'd like to knot,~ from staff, because I don't have a clear idea of t~Jhat kind of vehicles we're talking about, anymore I guess. Uhat kind of ,,,.'o['~i..:::l..:?s ?.re ooing to be going th'rough th~.s facZZ~ty. ~:mrr,,'nos' Yeah. And that.'s particu.,.ar!'/ zmport, a'nt ,f i.~...'s going t.o b..s do~.:.~n ~n 'l:he IOP. ~aatx.].i: Nell mayb-s, maybe not but the interesting thing is, there's going to be 400 t'~-.J~p3 maximk!fi~ someday and that's tFue. If yOU. do have a lot of ~-., s,:.~ vehJ. c].es goJ. n9 t. hrourjn + . .... ,~...~, a pcrrni!:.t,?,:J u:s.s~ I actus. J_ky thknk ~t:. changes the ref!ection of ~,Jhat l c:c:,r~sider an lOP dietriot because ! guess ! didn't consider s. use like t. hat gc~ner.c~'Ltn~ i:.['-~.r~b kind of t_'r'a{f.J.c to be appropriate before tonight and l don't, kno~,.~ if ! stiii do but~ ...................... Tha. t'~e 4'c:,t].gh k .... --aL.t$x:-' a lot of your industria~ , i-¢, you. ~:~,,~.:; a .~.iook have 2-3 shi · n~, , -' !o+' Rigger Ladd i gue.sR .,_ was ehi'nki~,9 El m rn i ri.rd s ~r .... t. v o u x 'no ~ t. h e y ' r u a a" ' i'9 ~-hey ave 000 ernplc ,..., e,.. ,..~ '-,.. '~'._. h a t v ,",.., ,'.0',. L .,.{ k.. e R o s e m o u n, '~',... , f.~ ,h, e ',z.' ' v e g o ~-,. , , ,. h,, 4~nd t. he>.' do do'n't ~"}",e7 © Co t..hey"-, e ge'q, e,-at~'ng ~ha ~. ki'nc{ o-~, ~L':s a.t:~o a hoN many ao'Fe s~te. ~" - ' +' do it.h .~. rnrn,~-~g:~' t,.J;.?.i.l I thi'nk it:. m~.ght have a i. ot to do ~.th z,... . ,, .~ ?~as-~ 5 'r-st., + f'~i'n ki ng~ o~.,~......, that's .,.~ ,=-'"-'.~.~o than Rosemount. and ~hen~. ,.,, i'm 'Lhi tq ki'ng, v,lot.,~, that's a bis site .~xn,:i this is just a iit. tie one. I think maybe the .~.rp,:,&(:t. 5. S ~i lOt:. [iiOTO , ,~ ~ Conrad' If. ...... x,..,d put.. a lot of =~it't:le uses like that t. ogether~ -;'~'"~;'-",-~,~..~-,, yOL.~ may h ;:~ v.:.:~ :5; c: me. J. m p a,c '..P.. ::-:.: gets {'~+e t. he ~' ...... quest.~.c~'r~ c,f b~'hether or not this ~r,.;,...,.S,~ t e ~ .... ate o, Hinnesota 'P, e :,,J ~; 11. ;3. !l..?. .1. ;i?, % . j.~'~::~[:)ec:'t5, o]'~ rn'[ght, be next_. YoLi kno~ ~t might not be a one type deak. Col":ra('i' ::1 ...... :; t ~-- {. ',.,.lou.~ d -bjor¥" . . · ' ....... ,.~r,.~.. .u ,, y me ,,~hat b~e re saying rz. ght. no~.~ ls~ 400 cars ',-)t t t r~::~n t- J']e '~:eds ,:12.ff~ ¥' ,:Ii,:i: cat.© <~nrne nigher -P hiT-~g~ alqd pr~'~t'-'Ly soof'! .~ t · . ............ ,~. pe o u.s= ¼$.s t.o r:,e ~ it has to nave a place ~ . .~ .r: ' -,r, ens to be F?orfia/q~e property ~,,i::3 re t'r'y.kng to 'f:ind a p~ace ~ o'r it. Tbs.'t:, haF, ~';at'x].i" i do,~'~'t lqno~,.~. ~ t.l-';at, anyb,-d'>', .... on the ,..~'ornm~s¢:~i~n,,, ...... ~ and l'rn kind of q'q].y here ~ {s sgaiRs ~ g t-kI .~yp r'~ ~ '~ .... y Inqj ~,'~ ?;peak-;rig bye ..... ,.~ ~ .. ~. havin .~, ~s ~. e ._ ~ , ac.~] {t a ,... ,~.,.,n ,oouer~t:k,{~.;. ;..y.' n ar, as .~ s~',rnev..dF, e¥~e ., q ~..~o~', i ...... her. her i_a a con,se'r'n, i mean ~e are drawing a ~c,% of traffic in~o the area on Toads: .... ' ............. ' -- , ...... rne a~ .~Li'ne again .: i'n the c-omprehensi,,/e plan, that. IH 5's already busy, well you've got 4.00 -' - ~ -~-~.- 400 fl1 o r e c: a r s s ,.--I a'/ [/e ?' e b q', s. 1 ~ rrl~ e ~- e r o n a h; g s h L p m a y b r:, b u. ~- h e" .t .... rfiore trips. P!ay'he '~4e shc, u].ri st.c)p development. 8,a t: z 1 .t - T h i s i s n ' I.: d e v e ]. o p m e n t. Conrad ...,her is it? Ahrens' It'?,,: a serni-quas£ ptlb]_£c use. c:'...x~ .... is:on. ~'n:,dt' ~tO0, cars c:ou!d ¢-~,¢.,rge just easi'ty ;4ith a p, ew of-Flee bu.i].d'~ng C o n r a d ' A b s o ;L u t ,.'~ ~ ¥. ' .. tnat and the tr~:~ns~e, mina ~-~---'--~ i' ~,~-;- T rt.,can are fney go{,rig ia oF~,, out? Generating a ~-.o~]r'~e nu r';e'C ed :. ~ <2z i_ ~. ~ ~', ,~ L, ~ ..- ~ ~- - .... ~-~ ~ . 'l' r ] i-'~ C3 Planning Con',mission Meeting Sept. emh)er 5, 1990 -- Page 21 Audience: We!.l~ they're out in the morning and back at night~ But you've got a lot of.~, Erhart: On one hancl we'd all like t.o have it to be some rea! pristine industria].~ .office indust;'ia! park like Baker Park you know but. it's not. there. Pill's got a nice building. ~e have a nice building but then rigilt across from us is a service station. Two service stations and a contractor's yard with a potential concrete mixing plant se I den~t knew. This is a tough one. I don~t see it as a big preb].em but,, Conrad: Again, I don't see it as a big problem today. I~m really worried about the future. I'm worried about traffic. I'm worried about what other stuff 9oes in there~ Erhart: The one thing I said i~d never do as a Planning Commissioner is be wishy washy. Conrad: 7he motion has been made and seconded to table this and for staff review. Is lchere any more discussion? Emmings moved, Erhart seconded to table action on the Vehicle Inspection Station for 3erry Perkins of Pope ~ssociations for further study of other existing uses and directing staff to study this application as a conditional use permit. ~11 voted in favor except ~nnette Ellson who opposed and the motion carried Nith a vote of 5 to 1. Conrad: And your reasons Annette? Ellson: I think that it shouldn't be in the industrial office park and not that they shou. l. dn~t be looking into that but I think they could have looked into the typical, neighbors and what people's reactions are by the time it got to City Council. ~nd I think the other districts are better for it. Conrad: Paul, have we given you enough direction in terms of what we'd like to see when this comes back? Krauss: Well I think we have enough direction to come back and get you the infermatiorl you're seeking. What's not clear to me is if fundamentally they come back in, let's say we come up with revised ordinance standards~ it's processed as a OI.JP, iS it sh. ili going to be objectionable from the nature of the fact that it's on this site in the I0~ district? If it is, I think that the applicant should be aware ef that so they den~t waste thei~ time en it. Conrad: I think t-here's a lot. of swing. We're balancing right now and something that. could be a condition might satisfy me to say '-/es. And therefore I don~t think there's anyway te read the Planning Commission right men to say if all the conditions are right~ are me going te vote for it? We don~t know hut I think it's eno of those t. hin~s ~here we have to say it i8 a conditional use~ What are those standards and if we're still not comfortab].e that ~e have control ~ith those standards in that district~ then it won't be turned down. It's not a waste of somebody~s tirne~ We're net toying with people. We're taking a good look at what we think should be done . P I a I-~ n .~ n ~ C. o rn m ~ s s ~. o n M e e t i n,.-~ September 5~ 1790 ~ Pagle 22 Krauss' ~-~nd Pau],~ if I could interjec:t~ If you could .get some idea on ~,<~ha'L tine tru. ck traffic would be~ it wou]~d help me~ A car a minute isn't se bad but. i{' you're talking about a lot of t. ruoks~ b~hat kind ef tra{-[ic are ~e ta,~king about here? Conrad' Okay, Might this come back ~hen Paul? Krauss: UeJ. 1 it seems to be your intent te ~herever it 8ecs to process as a conditional use permit ~dhich requires publication so it ceuid net be at the next meetLn8. I Nould anticipate 4 ueeks {rom today~ Emmings" lhat~s true i'F ~e lust leave the public hearing open. .lust continue it? Krauss' Ne have a publication requirement {or the CUP's and i~m not cure ichak ~e~ve satisfied that by posting it as a rezoning, (.}enrad' Everybody ~ornT or table Hith that? ~{mmings' ~'m comfortable ~ettin8 him uerry about it~ Conrad' Sorry for the deJ_ay but I think that's ~,~hat He have to de~ ~e~ll definiteAy make it on the agenda as soon as Ne can, Thank you a~ for con]ins in. You had a comment? A.~ ~verson' ! ~as curious. There's no date given for the next place this te sho~ u~ or the next meeting. Conrad: Ne haven't right ne~. Ne~re 8uessing not next meeting. Ue meet every 2 ~eeks. Hot next meeting~ The meetin9 a{ter, It Hill be ~uh]. ished . Krauss~ He'll renoti{'y. Oonrad: Neighbors k~iA~ be communicated A1 Iverson: [4e did net receive the previous. I didn't have very much ~,~arning about this meeting. Conrad: Notice ge out te everybody? Krauss: (~w. And H~'. lverson ta].ked to me about it ].asr Ri. ~verson' Last Krauss' Last ~.~ee I(. ~. Ivexson: Fox me ~t. ~as...7 days ~sn~ much not~ce and ~ don~t- kno~ ~,.~hy PauJ .... te~} us ear~ier. Kxau. ss: The fac~ of ~he ma.~tex ~s~ ~e~re no~ c}a}xvoyan~. ~Je do'n~t ~.~hen th ...... .... e th~ngs axe going ~o oome up and ~e not~s'y' ~ peop.~ ~ on the schedule that ~e~ve been adhexing ~o fox yeaxs ~h~oh g~ves ~hem about a ~eek and a ha].f t6 2 ~eeks no~ice. Plannin{;,~ Comrniss,f..on Heeting Sept. emh~er 5, 'J990 - Page 23 PUBLIC HEARING' SITE PLAN AMENDMENT FOR EXPANSION OF THE PARKING LOT RESULTING IN VARIANCE TO THE SETBACK REQUIREMENTS IN PROPERTY ZONED iO~ INDUSTRIAL OFFICE PARK AND LOCA!~___~'! 18930 WEST 78TH STREET~ REDMOND PRODUCTS. Public Present' Eugene Strobel %andra P, eitsma La}-]*',,/ Perkins [;~alqdy rpat. z ke Redmond Products Redmond Products Redmond Products Redmond Products .~o Ann O].sen presented the staff report on this item. Chairman Conrad called hhe public hearing to order. Eugene Strobe].: Hy name is Eugene Strobe.i.. I'm the engineering manager ~it.h Redmond Products, What ~e're proposing to do is increase the parking from 175 parking spaces to 279. This ~s to meet the current needs and some {Ltt. u. re needs that we're looking at for the site,, A {e~ things that:, e~ere mentioned in the staff report that I'd 1. iRe to c].arify. One, ~4e are asking for a variance for the percent o{' impervious paved area and that's tncreas;tng it {rom 70~ to Fe~. Hot,.~ever, this is based en the adjusted square footage ef the site. It doesn't take into consideration the entire site ~hich extends Beyond the frontage road. ~nd i.f you. incorporate the 1 acre plus property that sits south o{ the frontage road, that eJeuld drop that percentage do~4n be~o~ 70~. Second~y, the berm en the south edge of the property that ~e're cutting into, ~e ~ili net change the height ef that berm. What ~4e're doing is terracing the north side of the berm which the building side so the vie~4 from TH 5 ~ill be as it is new. The height t.,~en't change. We should not make the parking lot more vie~bie. Ne are proposing to move the entrance, the easterly entrance to the property further east and the center ~ine e{ the drive~ay ~4ouJ~d be 40 feet from the property line. Our adiacent neighbor, his entrance is very ciesete his properly line so there is a c~ese proximity. HoNorer, ]i'd like to out that this is 1 ef 3 entrances te our site. It's not for truck traffic. It's a secolqdary entrance to the employee vehicle car parkin8 and 9.~here ~e expect traffic in and out of the parking lot Hould be during shift change or at the start and c~ose of the business day so ~,~e don't ¢ee~ that that ~gou~d represent a hazard to other traffic on the adjacent property. Also, I'd ~ike to point out that the variances that ~Je're ask~n8 for are not tempe~-ary as indicated in ~he report. Me're not looking {er a short term se.~u-tion to a problem that ~e have currently. So the amendments to, if it should be approved, e{ putting it back into original condition in 3 years ~s net sornethJ, ng that we're looking for. Ne have ether spokesmen from Redmond Products to talk about ether issues. Conract ' Go ahead. Sandra Reitsma: kielJ, o. My name is Sandra Reitsma. I'm Director of Hu. man Resources at Redmond Products and I just had a let4 comments after looking t. hrou. cjh the staff report, bJhat I'd like to de, you've gotten a little bit of history of ou.r grob,jtz, h at rqedmond Products and I'd like to address some of the demographics of enr ~.,~erl,', -Force in that growth. In 3 ',,,ears ~,~e have PLanlnilsg Col~'~mission Hoc'Ling September 5, 1990 - Page 24 rr~ore-hhan tripled the number of employees that ~..ge have working there. No'ye gone fron'l 75 employees to over 250 employees. Ne are aware we have a parking pret}lem, tge de carpoei but it's not eneuq~h. He have currently 253 empJ. oyees. 53 of those Hork en the second shift~ Our day is from F;00 the morning until rl~idnight~ Our office hours are from 8:00 te 5;00 se we've got dif'ferent times that people are corning in. He have 175 parking sps.¢:es. ~,t any given point in time we ma'.}' have up te 60 temporary emp.~oyees ~,aerkkng there so ~se may have over 300 empJ. oyees there over the oou. rse O1: a work day. -[he average age of our employees is 32 and over e'i: ou.r work force is female and those the figures can shell you eno of 'Bile reasons that we have problems with our carpooling, tge have a dayoare issue, bJe have people ~he are coining in and wanting to drop off children ¢:ti{ferent places in the morning. Ne have them picking up different places in the evelsillg. Ne have peop].e that are coming from as {ar allay as St. Pa~ll~ ,~oseville. I personally live in Elk F~iver. He come iTlte Chanhassen. Ne Hork here. He spend our money here during the day. tge need pla¢.:es te park. 35~ of our employees live 'Fight in the Chanhassen/ Sdel'~ ,°rairie/Chaska area but over 30t ef the employees come from these dista¥'~ces %.hat I've talked about~ Se wouldn't normally be coming into Chanhassen. At year end He anticipate about 260 employees. If we're able to continue our gro~x~th> ,~e're !eoking at the possibility ef 300 employees at khe end of next year. tge're a successfu], company and He wouJ. d .~i,ke te keep t. hat success here in Chanhassen. !hank you~ Larry Perkins: I'm karry Perkins, the Chief Operating Officer at Redmond. I've been here 5 months and probably should take the blame for some of the changes ill the strategic p.~anning at Redmond. As most of you know we had a site plan and some things that we were 8oin~ to do~ in fact starting 'this summer out o~'~ a site. t think it's a 54 acre site out in your industrial park. After coming to Redmond I caused us to do some strategic looking down the road 5 to F years as te just uhere ue uould be in saJ~es and ~here we might want to be located te manufacture those items. Basically what it ameu~'Ls to is that's toe large of a facility that me had p!anned~ If He're {~o~ng to get that !arge~ ~.~e ~.,~onld have to 'look at all kinds of other issues inc.l, nding site:ca, other states and that sort. of thing. Ne tike it very much here and Hould like te stay in Chanhassen. he'd like te develop this cite a }it'Lle bit more so that ~e can maximize the possibi].ities on this site and we think that it has considerable opportunity te us and also te the City ef Ohanhassen. 8y the ~ay I should pent,on I Has a City Ceunoi2Lman myse.~f and put 3 years in that position so i can appreciate some ef the things that you 'Fo~ks have to 8o threu{~h and some o{ the things you have te wrestle with. It's net easy alA the time. He ~ant a lon~ term solution. Ue don't uant short Jzerm a~proaches or band aid approaches because that doesn't de either one of us any good,. He can't plan lon~ term if He have short term solutions er band aid approaches. Our growth, as Sandy mentioned, has been phenomenal. ~Je've had a 50sa compound 8roHth rate in the last 5 years and He expect to' ce~ltinue to grow, probably not qu~te at that percentage rate but !'d like to point out we re the number one gel!ins naif conditioner in the nation today. Ne're the 5th largest hair care manufacturer in the nation and every bottle, about 3 1/2 million bottles has Chanhassen, Hinnesota on the bottom ef it so He're proud te be here and consider onrselves ~artners ~.aith you folks and hope that you may be amendable to some oF the th~ngs He'd ].iRe to do. Kmrni¥~gs' Can kJe get; a little royalty o{f each bottle since our name is on -I:.her.-.a or Ilot? Larr.;' Perkins: I~Je pay ~i60~000.00 in real estate taxes of ~hi¢.'.h i kno,~ the Ci'ky doesn't get all of it. c..mmings: Let me say thank you.. kar~.~¥' Pe¥'kin::.:~: But. ~,.]e hope that Nc're good coporate citizens and I think have a decent repL.~.tat, ien in the city o{ Chanhassen~ t, ghat Ne say He~li do~ ]1 ti-~ink our record ~4ouJ. d shobJ that k,~e have done. In terms of Landscapins and t. ha% sor'L e{' thing~ I think kJe pre~z, ably 8o overboard and certainly Hound in this area as L,~e.].}~ 5 years ago t.~e had 40 peop~e~ Today Ne have 250 people and He~d like to be able te max this site out at 325 tea maximum o'~ 350 people. To de that o'~ course k~e need parring and strategically ~ge think Ne need a minimum o{ 300 parking spaces, lhe investment that k,Je t.,.~ou!d [}e making. There are so many things that fit tesether. 5tratesics. lly this is a very important part ef it~ lhe parkins issue. There are other important issues that ~e~re studying and it's kind of a chicken a¥'d the egg type thins but they all have te fit tesether~ soon as they do fit tegether~ ~e ~eul. d like te invest some 6 mi]~!ien c!e!lars here at this site~ ~beut 2 1/2 mii!ien ef that ~,~euld be in buil. dins modifications and the rest of it e~ou!d be in equipment~ F~I].]~ ef the moclificatiens ~Jeuld be inside the buildins feotprint~ There may be about a 2~500 square 'Foot external expansion b~hich b~ou.J.d be very minimal. but mos't of the expansion ~.giil be done inside the building Hithout e{fect 13o the exterior. ~f ~,~e are not able te get these variances~ I don't say this in a~ly Hay in a threatening manner. Just you have te understand kghere t.,~e're coming 'From and ~ahat ~e're going through for a decision making process, bJe need te expand. ~e knobJ that our groHth plans call for that. R!e L,~ilt have te .Took at other sites. Having been a president of a public c:om[sany in Hinneseta~ l"ve gene through this p~ecess be{ore. [.das in the food processing business and have looked at many different sites. [ can t:.ell you. that un{ortunately, as much as I love this state~ 'it's net the examp].e~ if b,~e Hent te Sou. th Dakota~ this facility ~,~ith about 200 people and i'll ~Jou].d be about 2 rni~Aion do!~ars a year more profitable to be South Dakota. That's $10,O00.O0 per employee per annum in terms e{ Ldorkrne¥]~s Cornpensation~ property taxes, income taxes and that sort thing. So that.~e ~hy kge chose net te develop this site cut k~est of tebJn in the .%ndustria~ park. Ne b.~eu~d not ever get to the size that Nas p'revieu, s.[y comtemplated en that site but Ne do think iNe can get a little larger here and then our plans ~.,J()uAd ca~.~ mostly ~ike~y {or another site someplace el. se in the United States. 8ut ~e d like to expand and put this other ~0 er Sobs into the economy here and ~nvest in these other assets~ other t~Je d like to have a fairly quick deoisien~ Riced like to de 'this t,~_{.nter because as Sandy had pointed eut~ cur sro~Jth rate is such that ~e need to plan ahead. Ue~re f!yins a fast mevins airplane and you need to ~lan Lhose approaches t~e.].~ in advance e{ the airport se to speak. I think that's sor~ of a summary ef ~Jhere N~e~re comin8 frem~ He appreciate your consideration and t,.~e are askins as .io ~nn ~einted out~ for these variances bu.t ~e t~i].l do them very~ very care{ully such that they den~t chanse the I ' '~ ' ].oek or ar}e~a'Fance and I can assure you of tk.a~, both {rem the east and from the south and t.ge~d try te hold every commitment that ~.]e Nade to you and then :some and that's our intention~ Thank ...... F'[ .... nlL~oF ~_"~ 1990 -Page 26 Conrad' Thanks for your cornrnents. Axe Bhere other comments? Any other perspectives on ishLs? Anything? Erhart moved, Emmings seconded to close the public hearing. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The public hearing was closed. Eir!',art: i~m ha'v'ing a hard 'time maintaining my ~gish¥ washy nature. Let me ueri-Fy two 'Lhings. We're talking about a variance to go to an impervious SL~'r,4~..~s a.~ea of 7e,3s~ still? And a vaxiance to the setbacks f~orn the front setba, ck of 30 feets to some~he~e bet~een 9 and 14 feet, With that ! can find no reason at all to support the proposal and agree with staff's 're,comrr, endation Lo deny it. And I do say that u~e welcome very much Redmond into the vii. lags but i don~'L Bhi. nk Ne have any precedent for allowing that kind o'F sur'Face area for any industriaZ site in the city~ Correct me if I ~m wrong. Ourselves and everybody else sticks te the regulations and do thai:, te essentially protect each ether~ That's my oomn'ients~ ,_:.tamings: When one of' these 'fellovJs spoke he said that if we computed it a ,.'J.i~'F'Ferel~t e~ay' they oarlle up be]~oL~ POt. Can you tell. me Nhat~s going on t. h e r e. Olsen bJhat fhey''re talking about is I don't, have the surveys oJ,. here but 'Lh~.},.'se-,.- ~ yoLt have Nest ?gth Stre~S-~-~.., the frontage road. ~ and ebon. .... '~,here's al. so some property'... It's essentially separated and ! believe isn't, that u. ncler MnDoi.s~s contro].? F. ugen~ Strobe].: That ~gould '~e rn quest. ' ..... ~) y, ion ~s why', I don't understand, t,~hy t.,~e~ r~a.., only taking the property north of the frontage road ~hen u.,~e pa>.' ta'.'~'~.,-~ on the property south of the frontage road aiso~ !f you include that green space south of the frontage road and north of TH 5~ it changes the calculat, ions so even ~gith the additional paving ~.ge~d run belch 70%~ l<rauss: I don'is have ist~e tax statements here and l~d like to look at it but I'~d be astonished to find out they !~ere. ,~ay{ng.~ property taxes on righ'L-of-uJay for Th 5 and for the {rents. ge road. That's controlled by HnDot. Lihat this appears-Lo be is a fairly common occurrence tihere right-,~ of-way is 'Lal{en by easement instead of right--~o{-~ay dedication. 'leu often tirnes have residential lots that are platted te the center line o{ street, s. You measure the setback ?rom Hhere the easement ~ine is that establishes t. he city's authority to build a road. !hat gives ne di{{erence in this case. As ~/¢it.h the homeowner that ~ays claim te the center line of his street.., Me normally say ne. bJe have an easement {er that and that's just not the case and they don't, pay property taxes on that. either. Emmings' $o you're satio-Fied~, that the 7°~ number i~?~, correct? l<rauss ' Ye:~, Larry Peri<ins: I think our point is to have drainage and to have impervioLLs or non-impervious land, ! think our point is that it is there and if you'd just. expand your horizons and take a leek at it~ you~d find that i'k is t. here~ So if i'L~s intent that ~e'T-e after~ e~e think we comply ~u i't. h that. Sept, ember ~ 1990 Emrnings' ~,Jol. 1 yeah, I suppose if k,~.e could expand our horizons ,.4e could be doins..~ a .lot. of 'l:.h~ngs but Z suppo~''~.~ ~,~e ca.~cu~ate these th&rigs. 'khe. ..... same .. , , bn~,~, apparently you every ~J. me on each lot or try t.o and by the ~ay ~e do '' ~ corne u.p short. I guess based on that t can't see any ground to grant a va'r-iance. Like Tim~ i agree ~,~it.h the staff report that it should be denieS. ~ a]~so, I may be dead ~rong about this but if the a.[ternatives is . ~ ' ~la ~ ma kes n'~ovi.'ng t:.o Sout..l'~ Dakota I don't think it'd oe the paxking lot t~' ~ them move to Sou~h Dakota. Xt ~ probably be ~he 2 rn.t.[~ion bucks so any~.,~ay, t:.tnatc.~s the ~,Ja.y ! }ook at Col'ifad' ~l'~nels~}e . ET!lso'n Ho~, many par~'' -' . ,,lng lots are on the Lotus think that they ~ant. ed? 01. sen' 78. That's if the'>' do the mass parking. ~zl].son: F~is~u- That rs ~-he one idea~ ~nd then thi~:' {s anot. k~er 200 plu. s or ~4hatever . O],sen ~e~.h~ right ..... '. both pr so t. hey~re ~;1.1son: z~nd they ~,~a.'nh city Councz] to look at oposais actuaA[y Aooking for c].ose to the 300 right there? Additional. to ~.ahat they have r i{~ht nob,~? 0~sen'' No ]lt~s a 'LotaA of 200 P, hrens' 357 tot. al. Eli. son' Okay. I ~as getting those numbers mixed Randy Patzke' One thing to remember is that ~,~e"r'e ta~king, Redmond~s reque~-'oting only on their site plan for the setback variances in terms the surface area. The issue at Lotus is only a temporary and maximum of year solution. Uhere a variance is permanent solution to their parking needs. Conrad~ 8ut including the Lotus. Randy Patzke' No. Conracl' 5o Lotus ~s no longer needed? Eugene StrobeJ.' Lotus is an option. E].lson You. b~ouldn t do both. Larry Perkins' I~e maybe b~ou~d. L4e maybe ~,~ouldn~t~ bJe~d .like to have as many opt. ions as He can. He'ye also learned that ~,~hen you plan~ you over p 1 a n. Able'ns' But you have 279 parking~ you're p~opos~ng 279 paved paxking S, ept. err~ber 5, i990 -'-Page 28 Larry Perkins: 'That ~Je would OHn and control and knoll that ,.~e have those no.n,ly Pat. zke The pa"rxing .:,,~¢,¢es on the Lotus property . .ortner o-F Lotus. Thal:.'s o1'~].'/ a t. empo]-a.'r'y situa'l:;.io13, Con;-aci' P;'r-lnet'k.e, arlyt, hin8 else? ~:]..].son' b,Ja',]]. I ]_.i~--, ~lqe idea of the aAternatives and maybe it's not car poo ]. i nS becau, ase of people at daycares bu.t I believe it Has brought beC,ore about LtSi. lqg .~3n~.-O .... . o~ ~.~ ~ the open ~ets and shu+'t.l.{ng people or t.h.i'nga: like that. I think it's like lin'i said~ it's a pretty huge precedence an,:i in my epLnion it is a band aid. It isn't the Long term s:o]ution ~or them. It's their short term band aid and then heaven forbid t.~n~.~ it gets eniy Horse and cch it's just such a precedence for anybody else ~.,..~ho Hant. s to do this that it really concerns me. I guess I'd like to kno~d that5. 'kheT've tried this shu~'~le... ,_~.. and that ~-hey've,.. done other thinso.<""' mean peop].e ~he ~.gerk doNnteHn certainly ~alk a long Hays to their at times. :{ can't go along ~ith it~ Sorry. Batzli: Jo Ann, has there been any effort by the applicant to short a hardship to get t. ho~'e var iallces other than they're expand.i, ng and ~hey,.. need ad¢litional parki 0.~sen' That':3 the hardship. Batzli' That's the hardship? I guess; I can't su. pport granting variances based on that as the hardship se that's Hhere this is. Ahrens: Nell it doesn't seem t.o me like this proposal really solves your problems. You have temporary parking spaces. F0 temporary parking spaces.. You're anticipating empieying over 300 people right? ~nd yen only are proposing a permar~ent so].ution roi'" 279 parking spaces. Sandra Reitsma: It's a 2 shif't operation~ Ahrens: RLght. But you have overlapping shifts which create a need for all of those parking spaces at least temporaril,' Larry Perkins' Ne do have some carpooling that occ,4rs already. Ne have ~.Fa.c=,o not.,0...maximum of 300 Hith the temporary employees nOH Ahrens' Ri,cjh{c bu.t, you're using, you're right noH u. sing you. r temporary parki'n9 78. .Sandra Re.i't3sma' No... Af",rens: ~lell you'd kno~, I don't think it meets the requirements for grant:i, ng a variance eLther. Bottom Line~ that's hoH ! feel. There's not a hardship. Except. I cai] see Hhere they think there's a hardship because they don't have enough pai'king spaces but I don't think under our o'rdinance i.t. meets the requirements. C:ol~rac, You.'v truck parking area seems to be huge and there's only a fell parking .spots ..... I drove i'?. the other day I'L seems like you .las" '~u have a SeptemSor S~ ;1990-~' Pa{~e 29 huse area -For your truck t.',_trn around and there's no ~,~ay you can convert that to ern~)J, oyee parkinFj? Zic.'s just humongous. L...~.ke Z think X could drive oho o-F tho b~g se~'n~ ~s }~ thexe and turn ~t. axousd ~ith one hand. Ser~.ous].y~ Ne].].~ i;,h~t ~4s. sn't a serious comment but it's huge and sx~.~rprised you haven't looked at that for arJditional parking. You're · ka~k~ng about doing some things on the Lotus prop~erty. I'm just kind amazed '!;hat you haven't considered in your olin parking lot. !snOt there someth{ng that you can do there? Rancly F"at. rzke; Not really because at...are required... When you do get a trai.].er in there, hacked tip to the deo'r'. You get another eno puli. lng in and one pu].l.i.n~l out~ you ~dilt 'Find that area gets te be quite congest, ed. Conrad: I mas in there the day there ~.~ere no trucks. I guess I just hit it. R~a'n,:Jy F'a.t. zke: kJas it. by any chance a Friday? Conrad: I don't kno~a. No. It ~aas yesterday. No trucks and it ju. st ]ooked huge. But anyway ~ that's your business ~ ~Ral-~,:;i';,-' Patxke: ...pahen you gets t~-ucks il'] there~ you'd be surprised at fast it ~.,.~i!l -Fill !....a"rry Perkins: I guess that. ~4hat occurs to us. It does look huge and it sou. n,:is J. ike a ].et of cars. 179 cars is !-lot that many cars.~ ..'Look at that plan, in many, many cities that ~ouid be just a very, very acceptable :!situa'lsien. Ne .just hate te have this be the criteria that forces us anet. her mode ~4hef'l you leek at the elevations, the side vie.~.ls, the trees arid a!.l. the other sorts of things. The poP, d is al. ready there and so eta, Me... te have something like this cause us to have te 80 elseHhere. Conrad: Ne ~,.~ere hopeful you v. Jere go~.ng to move out a little bit ~.~est and satisfy that need. Yeah~ I hear ~,.~hat you're trying te de. Certainly understand that and I appreciate the problem that you're trying to resel, ve. I have a tough time ~,,~ith the variances myself. I guess He are leering the long term and t think if ~e ~ot ~ithin a lS~ or 2% variance~ I think ~e'd do some real~ ~ge'd be interested. Or at least !~d be looking at it serAously. NheF~ me're taAk~ng about 10~ variance to the impervious surface~ it.~s defeating some o{ the things that ~se kind ef hold dear te our industr~.al~ deveJ, opment and ~t~s tough. I don~t knoe~ that the Commission's {~o~n8 te be real receptive as you heard and He're pretty~ kne~ our .job is to make sure the ordinances are right in the '~irst p/Lace and kind of adhere te them. Hhen He see ~reblem8~ ~Je try to change the ordinance. That's reai~y ~hat our Sob is. Granting variances mares a of needle u. pset~ ~is~ecially the ether business neighbors and then i~. bas~ca~Ay says your ord~nance stinks te he,in Nith so rake a Aoek at it and that's ~.~hat b~e try to de. ~eal carefully and come u.N ~,gith a better ord.{.nance if 'that's ~.~hat~s needed. The City Council. probably Hould be more recentive te your concerns and your bu. siness peregatives and alternatives and '~ think they may pay a ~itt~e bit more attention te your. ! sure to see a long term so!ntien~ I 9luess I ~m really not satisfied that ~e have a ~o¥~0 term se].utien head'inS your numbers~ I think you're trying to get some alternatives out there that de anything because the empioyee~s have got ko he irritated. They can't be pJ~eased you kno~,~ and ~ can empathize ? ]_ a n Iq i n g (..'. o m m i s s i. o n i','i, e e t.. i n g Cepteml:}er~, 5~ 1990 - Ps.g,~- 30. b,JiL, h t. hat. bJe have to c!ea! ~4i'th employees occasionally and t. hat~s tough. 8u~-~.. I gu. es:'~ I J~ave .q~.. problem with the variances~, in this particular case~ . ~ really like our Fn~ ~'t {~' cntre ....... ~ typ .... ally e ls amount of use and there's a Jot. of -~nsn 1"or t. hat FO ~' ~, . ~ ........ns .~ ~d .like Paul to res. ko sure that ~e~re ca]~c,l.latins it in t. he right way in terms e{ what the applicant brought up across the street. ~'~ that can be ca.~cu~ated in~ then ~ think l~d take a different look at it.~ I don~t- hhi. nk it ~4ould meet the intent ef what our FO~ .{rripe-r-v~o~:B su.r'f'~ce is bna3 sti.ll ~d have to take a dif'~erei]t .... l sure wou~d hope b~c could u~xe Letu. s. I think He are pretty flexible en hew you ceuid u. se LotL~s and I ha,.?e no idea what City Oeunci~ ~i]~]~ cede in on that one~ illt.~?~x not. a lens t. erm selution and I understand that. I ~ish we could help you find a long term so.~ution for your emp~oyees. ~ don~t have it~ ]i don~t nave it yet you can see I~m net bending a whole let en oNr stano~x}ds SO I ~11 probably o'f' no Nsc to ~ou right now. Larry Perkins: The ?0% versus 80t~ that_ I understand you. r concern on that .... Let rne assure you on the employee issue~ we don~t have unhappy employees. We have a waiting list. He have very~ very iow turnover. You can ta].k to an'?body that works at Redmond arid see that it's a very~ very des:irab].e place te ~erk. It~s an extremely snccess{ut cornpany. !t shares ik~..~3 weaAth ~ik~h it's en!p~oyees.. A]~so~ we have .~ots of ba~is in the air as to ou.r long range planning~ This is one of thorn. It.~s a very~ very key eno. b.Je will desigl~ 'hha'L faci].ity to the size o{ the parkins staAl, s~ Now bear ill rrtJ. nd we have 175 now. lhat~s~.. Ihs impervious ene~ that's a ].itt]_e bit tougher one. I understand that~ ~ Co'ny-ad.', i didn'-13 ~,~ant t.o apply that. I just didn:t to always be a human resou, rces person. Concerned with yeu. r shift changes and problems of Hhere te park but. yeah~ I ~,,~asn~t insinLtating they weren't happy. I~m hopeful that you can do somethir~g on the site next te you. Other than 'that, I c!c.,n~t have any good so!utiens {or the problem ct. her than my drive thru~ Is there a motion? Erhart.' I~].1 move -the Planning Cornrnission recommend denial of Site Plan Amendment ~eqNest ~85--1 as sho~n on t~ p~ans .~ateo August el~ I990~ 8st. zli ' second Erhart moved, Batzli seconded that the Plannin9 Commission recommend denial of Site Plan Amendment Request ~85-1 as shown on the plans dated August 21, 1990. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. (.'.onrad' We tl~ank you 'for coming ils and ~4e like you being in to~4n and you are a good neighbor but I think in this os. ce we're holding to son'ie stsndards. Again~ when you ta~k to Ci'ty Counc.il~ they probably have a different perspective on things, Thanks for coming in, APPROVAL OF MINUTES' Ernmings moved~ Ellsen seconded to approve the Hinu. tes of the P~annJ. ng Comn~J.:Bsion meeting da'tled August 15, 1990 as submit'Bed. All vet. ed in favor except 8atzli Mbo abstained and the motion carried. CITY COUNCIL UPDATE: ,~,el-'ort. from tile Direct. cT'. Has everybody read ~h~t© ere ,. repc)rt Can I ask a couple questions en it? Cio'fir ad ' 5u.r e . .'.!-.fha'fL' 8u. ess~ Hha'L the questions are on? Storm ~,~aLer utility fu'nd. ~"~ .... 1i' "- ,, nice quote in '[:.he paper ...... I"~ I ' '- Erha'r"t: Thanks. I appreciate that. I Has surprised I didn~t get ',Fined 'f-or .gett'.].T'~!::~ m'/ n:.-:~.me in the pape¥'~ Usually that's an automatic. Z have a c:ou.p].e questio¥1s on this Paul~ 0uickly~ i guess ~4e talked last time abeu. t u. pc~st.~ng the He'k].and ordina, nce~ 0ka~ Hhy do He have to do that again? ~emi nd me. ~ ' I/Jell there's a number of reasons First of all our He'tlands r ',. r s ti. iff; ~3 ~ ordil'~anc;e, ?-rom ::staff's vieHpoint~ ~4as very innovative and forHard thi'nl{i, ng. 0vet t;ime He -Found that it:s very difficult te administer "For a number o'i: reasons. It also does not .[nco'r'porate (3k~'lr'l'e}lt technology i'f: you. Hill, of ~.,~etla. nd preservation and that's one that consider not c, niy p.%.:.:nt :::<i_~,:2c~._es :is ,::}u'l:. there, ~.jhich is Hhat a~l the classification systern nOH does, but Hhat.'s it o int. rinsic value? !s ,+' ge)od Hi!d.Li'Fe habitate i'~' good f:i].'[.rat.kon 1':or pol. Autants'? t,.Jhat purpose is it serving'? t4e have made c]ec:isiens in 'hhe past~ most recently the eno that comes te mind is Hi. th Hc0ona]_d's. t,Je kold you ~ith HcOonald~s that the Hetland that HaS next to PlcDonaid~s, Hhiie it Has a Class 8 Hetiand: b,~as essentially Horthiees and that 'it HaS more vaAuable if you hao the authority to trans?er requiremen'[, elseHhere~ and He sort eT did that but ~e had a pond over by the Sckankar s~_'lse that ~e had some credit on., Ne have no {orrna~ized pro,--e~>s,, c:,f doing ~-hat.~ . Me have no ~4etl~nd~ ~ very critically b,~e have ne t.4et].and'.:.n maps. Ne don't knou~ Hhere a ~4et~and is. b,Je have a genera~:}.zed s;et o{ maps '[.hat Fish and [,,Jild].i-Fe prepared, lhat:s their vieH eT Hhere bJetl, ancJs arx~.~ . Ne have a very .~.c~ene~-a].ized.. , eot ....o{ maps, 'v'ery srna].~ sca]e~. that t. he DNR has prepared that nobody can read anyb~ay and the DNR en].y prote,:2ts Het].ands that are 10 acres and larger tha~t they identi-¢~ed i0 year~3 age and I can shew you some 50 acre b,~etlands that they've missed. ::hart' L,JI-'lat:. Hould He do L41'['.h more maps? A more detailed map? Krauss: bJell a number of things. He had problems in a number of subd.[v.[s.[c;.,ns where there were ~et~a. nds that He'r'e located du. ring a subdivision process but ~here b.das never any clear evidence of three things existing. Nhen 'r-esidents~ if the residents did caJ~ up the city and they say do I have a wetland on my preperty~ Hell I den~t know. Hhen developers work L4~_t2h ,..is. Nhen they come in, He sit do~,4n ~,.~it.h whatever information He have and ~.,~e talk about the potential opportunities and liabilities of a sit. e. The presen~(-'-~ of a ~,.Jetland is extremely .... important . bJe Hant to knoll ?..~hah the con'[ou.r o'F uhe thi. ng is Mnere exactly Hr~s.u S t e i:)erJ, mel:..er, t.,.Jhe'r'e il; out,ets. Nhat it's colqditiOT~S are. L,Je have rio ~,a~t -rh:~. devel, oper ,.:;yes you. that ~<rau. ss Nc,, t. hey don't and He dc) n~t trust t '~' ' ~ ,, - , ~em te give 2~% te us frankly. N.:P. u~anV Lo :"~,ot that ou. rseAves Septernber .5~ 1990 -. Page 32 Doesn't it a~so require you to go to the site to '¢igL.J. re that ou.t t a i 1. ? Nrauss: That's the thinc, j~ Every time this comes up~ Hhether it's a h,:z~m.~---.ot,.~ner tqho Hants i;.o pAace some {:i]~]. in their backyard er it's a dove]oF)er or it's the city Hbo wants to develop a park~ everytime He have t,:p ,s.01i up somebody from DNR or somebody from Fish and Nildiife~ 0orne out ..... ~ ~ ~ ~.~ ~ ~ ~. s. il~.~ Ns. II{ the site with us and 'khey do {t out of e h~ 8oodre .... of their hear.~, the,r}roiii,::2a].].y because these are not Hetlands that they a~l. protect. protect a let mere Het. larlds than they de. P~nd if you. ask a DNR official t,.,~here the wetlands are~ you. set eno answer. If you ask the Fish and Ni].dlife guy where it is~ you get another~ !f you ask the Army Corps~ you may ~3e-t:. a th~.rd. Nhat ~t boils down te ~s tile city embarked ena procedu, re Hhere we dot. ermine that we wou. id protect many mere Hetlands than the {ec!e'F'a]. or stale agencies b~anted to protect. That it. was ~n the comrnur~ity's best. interest,., te provide the best available Hetland protection He cou. ld. That te~].s us that Ne can't rely en their staff peepl, een a hit and rnies basis te locate these things for Ns because 'they interpret them dAfferently than He do~ ~t's rea]. important toe that Hot,ands be considered as part. of a system~ [dhen you consider a Hetland on a eno basis~ He may preserve a wetAand on eno program and then on another prograrn, like s storm Hater management program~ destroy it because we've pumped aAJ ki. nds of storrn water runoff through i'h that's going to sedirr~ent the thins over or nutrient load the thing. He have ne real understanding o'~ hell these interrelationships ~ork because we have no overall storm water rnanagernent plan. Every property is taken as it comes on a eno of{ baeis~ ilrhart' Did Met Council requ. ire that we put together a water rnanagei'ner'lt p i a n ? ,-,rauss The cot. ate is. There s a state law I think they adopted it. about .3 years ago. l[ think the deadAine gives us another 2 years to do one. ,~ ~ .- , ~ J.. -~ha.t element of it the st'erin Hater management element c,f it. is in a sta~.e rnanda'l-~ [,Je've estimated, ! forget the ex ..... t ..... ~Aar amoun~ but it's in ~he el50~ooo.oo...~elFS,OOO.OO effort. How there's 3 programs e{ the st. erm ~.,Jater utL]_ity fu. nd and that's a misnomer call;ng .it an u.t ;],zty Tund. b,~h~ ..... t State's enabl.~,ng legislati, on requ. ires that yoL.t call it. We'd rather call_ .~t a surface water management pro,ram 8_nd I won't get itlto semantics o'F whether or net a utility fund is a tax by any ether nanle, it's clearly a f~nanciai [iab~.].~ty against whomever it's posed but the program as we envision it is an {nterreiated program that deals with storm Hater rnar~agement. ['13 deals with wet].and protection and throwing in an elemen% {'.het's beoomins a rnaSor concern. It deals Hith Hater quality and very ~" ~ ......and Chat ~S communities, ~.n fact only one community so fa, has done t''~' ... ~:.agan. No're under s. great d~al ef pre~'ure f~om the Hetre Council. From the PCA. From the Hetro haste hater, HNCC and the federa~ EPA to ~ork water qua].ity in the Hinneeeta River. lhere~s a lot e{ discussion greuF)s~ we ye volunteered with the Hetro Ceunci.[ to serve on th~-~ ~ask force when t. hey pu.t t. hat. together te address that issue. Critically the NP<a is saying 'khat the State or the Hetro Counci~ cannot exi':,and the sewage treatment plants that. ~-'erve u~ becau~'~ ~ ~ ~ ........ ~. o .... · ..... ~. ~ater qualiey in ~he ~-iver'~ deterierat, ec{ rriuc:h. Nobody knows what the answer is but they know Hhat the prob.[em is and t. hat.~s basicai].y coming eft from non--point source peilution so every time it ra~l'~$~ stuff gets f)~ushed off the streets. Stuff gets {.lusted of't: the lawn. It gets -Flushed eft the {ami fields and Hinds 'dp deHn the river. F)lanl'l:[_nf.j Commission Hee'Lil]Cj Sept.(::n'!be:r~.q~ J.¢790 - Pag,=.. ~, -o°°o bJe'~ve experienced lo,':.:al problems~ Local cone:ems that you know ~.ge~ve got ,~n.~-,on 1~ e_. on I 8.1-_ -,.e Lucy.._ ,comp 1 ~ i ningc~ a b o ut v,ater, n~,u a~.~t_ y deter{.~ or a ti n g and that.. t.k~e lake's" ,..~uLri. fyin8 He'ye ~,~ the people on Lake ~iiey concerned that ].akc~ t, Jatel- qu.~!ii.:.y has been deterLorated. We've got ~cne Hetro Counter ..... .. ~ na L .............. ~.)een doing t..es't~ng that seems to indico, tJ ~ ~- her.:s ~:s .............. =';orn,:': (']egre,.. gatio n of J ak~s ." T he pr o ,¢,ess.{.o hal...s .~ ancJ T.~ don'f. ~ claim to be c:,ne in t. his 8. rea.~ argue about the statistics of exactly ~h~ nature of .... , "- {t's cZear i-hat ~he'r'e~s a prob~m fhat hasn't beach ,._h.8 p'roblern od~ ............. 8. ddressed. Gary L.,J&y'ren and Z talked to the City Cc)unoL1 abou~ appxoaohing Li'~es.:':~ issu. es in a cornp'r'ehensLve Nay last yea'v. We at. Bernpted to get 'Funding 'For it. out. o'f t~he general fund. Understandabiy the City Council b~as loathe i':.,:~ ya:Lsu~ p'ropert, y taxes to generate the income that wouAd be required to u. nc~e'r-tal<e this work. They did give us sufficient money to look at funding sourc:es Nhich is ~.,Jhere i:.his storm ~ater utili, ty fund came from. t,.Je think j~ clear.Iv behoc)ves the city to d-)this in 8 comprehensive manner We ,:3ou],:::~ do ...... i"- p.tecemea_].. ~.,.'ve already talked to hydroiogists, if we can ge'~' thorn c:,r b,Jildli-Fe folks to work Hith us on a Netland program~ ! t. hinl{ we coul4 do thg. t as a one off program. !t Hou!d be as effective either from a cost.. :::t. 8. r~dpont or from an environmental standpoint~ I~ storm water ~._i-~i~ it,.es tgi:mod a lop oe issues~ you know the tax by any other name I-~' ctear~y. .,. ~ 8®o 'r ....... s;~ct~_,, ~.{s rric, ne:y that ~x. Jill be paid,. For a lot. of .,-e~...~.~.::,, s:es;:z:~.ons~ it was -Felt to be {airer~ or more fair than property taxes~ lot of people have indicated a conce'rn thaL property taxes are regressive., To the ext. ent that the average home these days~ ! mean you bum a home for your farnily~ it's $160~000.00-$200~000~00. If we raise ~re~erty taxes to generate t. he revenues we need~ 40~ e{ it would 9o into {isca! disparities.~ The::s-on' oo'~1 dist'rict would~ g,~'k~ x number of dollars. The Co,~n,./', e, gev. s' x ~,~he nun'~ber o{ dollars. ~..~, .n it boils down to what we get you knew you have to ['~.c~,,,.'e a f.{~i'r].':/ :s.i. gni-Ficant rev~sion {n taxes to do that The storrn ut.{]i'Ly ;{.8 8 5 year program, l~rn net going to say that a{ter~ at the end ,::)f 5 year:s thg. t some sort of cont,.hued effort isn't going ~- be antic{o~--~d .. . ~ ~ 4, p. ~,.i ~ ~.., . ' ....... :~' ~. ie ex y ' ~n the i'~ 5 L:,e,_.c;d::.~e ; .....iS~ 8u.t the level of el{or~' treme! hi. gn ~ f , s~L y.:{gsrs ~.~oo~LJ. Se there s so much work to be done~ There's the planning work ;~d.. ,,~' think we need to de lhere~s the ordinance ~erk we f h{nk Ne 'need t,o do. There's also deferred ma/ntenance tha'L we~ve n~ue, done on storm Nat. erooyoto-emo ...... The storm water ponds t,,aue -'~ need to be dredged beoause 'Lhey · P ~ ,_ We"re not~ Z ::~,_iment over. L.Je sin]pLy don't have _.h~ manpoNer to do i~- have to say from a staff ~:~.. ~ ~ .sL. andpoint Ne re not looking to be expan...eive ~ , ....... --~ ~-om~,~ of il ly hilly fashion. We Ne r'~ qo~- ].ool<.i. ng to add staFJ in ~.,,.~ sort W .. ant.~..cipat¥~_ using consultants, so that when the Nork ~s~ done or the planning efforts, that t. hey~re out the door. b. Je~re not. hiring anybody long term to dc) that. And ideally the ordinance is one that"s tailored so that bJe can handle it. in~-house~ We don't need a ~ot o'F additional assistance. ~b.~c~'$ some desi..~"~ on the City E~,g{neer'~ staff ~ ) ............. ~ ...... L.c hove 8. st. orm water o,_af, people. R, ' engineer as c)ne of their '~' :~ ..~.xr~ the !eve] of effort tn the '~:{r~t, ~ ...... R yea'r~., is quite ,high, , to accommodate all theo~, ...,~. *hi~oo~ ,,~. At +'he~. end. of ths. t:. period, and it's sunset It.~ ~ ........... ~.~ ,. t e n d t h a'!: .o year program ",'" he of .if ~.t s c:oni-.inued the level of effort:, would be quite 8. bit less The ia..a .... ~ .... . ~ hat I be {ce,~ sever of do{rig it a'.s a ut.ility is upder new s._,a~..~ ].aw t . .1 ........ is a ....... ~,m Much like the ~Jat. er years o].d~ it ali. owe you %0 consider this as a .=,x~: ut¢ ].{ l'.y. biu. ch ].ike the ,.~anitary sewer We had some developers ail ~cn~ last ~', .... ~i'ng c:ornl_)]ain t'hat, fhey -Feel they"re be{ng doubly h:~z u That they .._? n,.e;t.:s.]. ]_ed sto'rrn drainage ponds in ir. he.ir su. bdiv{sioq.~ , c~n_. ~,,Jhy oho,.:~ .... ' ld they. hav~'~' 'to oo anyt. hing else. Nei~ tn,~re s several ansb~ers to that. k'!rst. Of ' ........ t ~..,~..:x else. I,... s e .... ~ ....."~le 'IL., .q ';' dorl !-'lgv¥.: {;.o cio 8. rl'?,'th~ '- .... XlCUr,qbaTtt; tirr.:~OT1 the r.,~=,~p i'i.~..'.(;thor,:2 .~_1-i the fu'~.u.'r'x' b.lho are LJ.S~t'ig the system to pay for kt.~s · , ~.~ ~.o in a storm ~.Ja. ter pond~ there's nobody ,:./"~:~i:. l-)u'.c our street c'r'eNs and k~e onJ. y have 4 guys on the street cr There are rna'r~y th:~.ngs t. ha'L aren't done because they just. don't have the ?:,O,:;t ] ~:¢:7~ 'tl.O O0 i L ~ ~'"I,~3 i i"!'i'/e ilcl Fice O -F t t.. ~..- ....... ~ · . .~ .... ' ' ' , ,~.~ ~.~ o.~_; ~.s one Ne don '~- do '~'hat ~.~nt. il one Tails. bJe .jus'L don~t have the ~ear~.~..~unai~ ~co do .~t. ~,dat. er qua]. i 1: y ef'Fo'~'t:t~, one o~ the things that improves b~a~er qual J. tM ~--' ~ ~.~j'n i f i cs rtl: ~ y' :s~ r egu.~ ar.~ street s~,~eepi nS . Par't~., cula~ ~ y,., in the ~...~pr ing so thaf y~-,L don~ ~- ~-',c'L thc ~ -F)~ush of org,anics into the system kJe '~ .Ldo ~u~'t..~, don'f~, have the rnanpo~er . You hno~,,J ~:o.. Z ~,~uess +-h~~ ._. i~,~., really an ai:t-..en'~pt 'Lo aga:Ln attack this in a comprehensive ~,,~ay and t,~e don't kno~,4 ho~,,~ .r: ehe ~_t. :/'~ ].,:)t Of ,:2orl'l[rlulq[t.[e:~g have adopted these things. ~bou. t 6 or F t..ha? i[ ~J'r'l ab.dare o'[ in the iaet ceupie years. The cost per homeeb,~ner t.h~:e user jf }/e~.~ ~i].! pays. Pa home is assessed a relatively small amc)u, nt. bex:ause a borne x,c,:it~piee a ',-e].a'kiv~ly sma] 1 amonnt of sNrfo. ~c~-~ ar, ea .... Re ,'qrnond c,r ~C)S{;6:[I'iOI~ rl~i. i s assessed a comrr~ensurateiy larger 8. mo[iht because they have 80.% of :~mF, ervious surface or 70% or ~Jhatever. '(oL~ kno~ there are a ~.ot of concerr~:s. I unoerst~.ano that. Nebedy"s trying to pu. 1! the t.Jool over anybooy :s eye:s. Ne do realize ~-b,~* tibia is an additional co,=e factor The .... p- - ~ ~ ~ . . They asked us ~", I the Council o.o..ed u.s ~.6. look at several things ....... ook at impact .--',n .... ag'~'~cul'tLtr~:~l-'~ property, bJe'r~,... ~-~'ing~z.~. around ~"~,~ other comrnuriitias '-,-', see ~4hat uh_.y've done ,.,it~*. .,, that and that.'¢*..,, rather ~0"¢"h,.~.~,.:¢. to do La'nc! a'nymo'Ye so k~e may have to ...... t the trend on that. But ~'here s a lot of ,..~-~e,.t~:, ths. t. I'v~:; s_eeu that .~{ndicates ag Land, is not ~x~,'x'e~a~'iLy part ...,-,{:, t. he , ~ ' ~ - , soluti,:t,r,. . iL $ al~'(-'.~_, part n{~., t~,e,, problem . That, . uhe nutrzent '~uno', 'r, ... 'v.::~..~::..~ sg land No~,.~ this rnzgnt nr~f apply to your property T ~:.'r-ee {"arm .~.~", t ~,~her'~ you cultivate a -~ieid, the a~.s_'- +~ tha:t' ! ~ve seen f'rem , 4 .... '' ~n~ greater several_ hb,'o'r-o].ogists in the h,eu}o Counci~ is that z~:'s produc., ].evels~ aboNt t~,;ice the weekly amount of 'nuLrient runoff that exper~encf, ng tn :single family sumJivisions. ~.'~-,,a'.r [;o yot~ have a copy of' that? Yeah. :h's a matter of-r~_,ct r do I have i~- upstairs _P..,atzli' Really you're assu. rning a lot o{ di{ferent things because you're ....... in c'r'op and ferti.1., iz,~, ':~- and a J. ot of ~,~hkn.~ro .8. 8 SLI fl'l i. il 'g ,:!~ ,:3 (l r .....:z ,...rau?::s' eah, I didn't, assume it. Brian. Ie b~as informa+'ion t.,-'~a~. ,sas S ~ ~-"':%'. 1! t;. o rl!.:r; . l[ ri f a C 11 . o-.[ 1~. ~.~e].l if' a guy has 20 acres o{ alfal-ffa and he:s r~ot cuieivati'ng {t- ,'.."~r'~...:! he"..q: /not fert. ilizing it, '},ou're. ',qot contribut~.ng to the problem~ ?,['r'au.s?:~' Righ[.. "rhe'/ gave us several figures -.For ag i and. One t.gs.s under active cL~i.l~,,/ation. ~ corn crop type of thing where you have exposed Clear].y {f {u s all pastureland, you're tal. k~ng about s~,,, .... ~ ...... entire].y' . n .... tzii Then you 'r'e talking about ~ci~eir minimum tii].age? planning Comrnis'.~ion Hooting September 5, 19~0 -Page 35 I<rause: Yeah. There:s a lot of detailed issues that I think are going to be worked oi'l beicweer~ no~ and the time this comes back to the City Counoi].~ Rle~re 8oin8 to fleck at the a8 land issue~ bJe Here asked to look at the~ te 8iV~e the CounoiJ~ some assurances that this is not a redundant effort. That this is not something that the Wateshed District ~eu!d do if Ne didn't do J ~ ~ it~ Of if the P(?~ has some 'Funding source or a program cha~ we re not expioring~ bJe~ve contacted ail those agencies. ~4e~ve asked them to review this progran'l and ].et Ns knoN what they think. Conrad~ klhat'~s the City required to do by law for storm water management? Krauss' 1.4ell~ for storm water management we're required to develop a storm b.Jater, comprehensive storm ~ater management plan. Conrad' Krauss~ Now that doesn't deal with water quality to a great extent and it does1] ~ t I.. -~ ~ _ o~ai with wet.Lands. In 'fact fhe DNR would argue that it s destructive to wet. lands. Erhart' 14hat's their purpose then? bJhat's their purpose~ ~ Kr au. ss" The DNR? Erhart' No, the State. The State requiring a plan. To prevent flooding? t<rauss: Yeah~ 8asica.~i~¥ and also to promote agricultura]~ with your drai. n fields and there's a state beard~ they keep coming up with these organizations that .~ve never seen but there's a group cal~ed 8ewser.. ~n acrenyrn that's~ all the Hatershed districts i.n tile State are required to revie~ p;lans deve.~oped by ].ocal units of government and they're supposed to develop t. heir own comprehensive document and then ali. that gets 'Forwarded to the 8owser 8card and they have the right te approve it up and down. And it's al~ under this State law that requires the communities to undertake these pAans. The ~ong and the short of it is~ at .teca.1~ gevernment.~ we're on the front lines. We de 'the Nork. We pay the freight and we set the star'ldards, especiaA:[y if we want standards higher than those that weu.[d be guaranteed by the State and the Feds~ I think that in the past the City has said that they wanted that. Erhart' Have you got a sense here. Do you see that~ acquisition of wet,ands in n~d o ee f protection~ Don~t we have protection now of wet,ands in our ordinance? Krauss: kJe do but there may well be a condition: and this is the kind of thing thalc we need to have exp].ored when we do a NetJ. ands ordinance~ kJe may well have wanted te say something like te HcDenald~s saying look~ that Hot,and you have there is rea.[].y unnecessary. ~t~s net an ideal, one~ We'll let you fill it but you've got to pay into a fund so that we can acqu~.re a better wet].and an improve J~t dok~nstream er wherever e~se ~t was app)~opriat, e to de that~ A !et ef communities operate their storm water utility J~ike that. I'm sorry, their storm water management p~an~ Erhart.~ I,.,;t'~at. you're saying here is that you may acquire land to create a w e 1;. ]_ a n d ? SeF, tember 5~ 1990 - Page 35 Kr a.u:;-ss ' Create .. Preserve. Expand LTi is~on~ Irnprc)ve? Kr au~?s ~ Z mp'r ov~, Yeah Conrad: Well the ordinance really ha.e to be gone through. I think it's lust. really worthwhile. And in terms e{ what wet].and and the storm water management does~ all. I can do is relate to the lake that I live en and over~ -Lhis year is the worst. Maybe we can see 4 inches under the surface. Maybe . Erhart~ .see 4 inches of what? ,'.Conrad: 4 inches under the surface. If you do a segidisk reading. When I moved out there it Has, Lotus was airways dirty but when we moved out 15 >'ears~ ago you could, the segidisk Nas about 2 to 3 feet. And I ran it thiss summer, it's a couple inches, lhat~s primariiy~ Lotus i8 sort e{ like a. septic system of Chanhassen. Everything drains~ It's got a big watershed and it's .just real indictative ef rains and there's just no doubt. You take another ~ake like Christmas Lake~ The watershed is minimal. It's up ena 'ridge~ Hething flows into i.t. !t keeps it's clarity but in terms of Chanhassen~s lakes and thio watersheds around the ~ake~ it's embarrassing. The development has, in my mind reaiiy~ and we thought., we~d been doing the right thing as new developments come in and ~e put in the pending arid all that stuff. ~11 you've got to do is take a look at the lake and it's really pretty pathetic. That Bothers me because ~ spent a let of my time thinking Inew we preserved the quality and we haven't clone i t. Ellson" Well woulld it be a lot worse i-F you hadn't done what you.'ve done? Conrad: Who knows but storm water management is a big {:actor. You knou,, all the nice wetlands in the world are net going te preserve Lotus Lake that ]l live on. It's really storm water management I believe that has a n'lajor ~ major impact. Erhart' Are the nutrients coming from fertilizer do you think? Conrad: La~JnS. Er hart.' Lawn fertilizers? Conrad: Yeah. And you've got a lot of creeks that are flowing in~ We used te have the farms where Brian .].ives. That used te be ali agricultural. and I don't know~ it's get te be an improvement since residential went in down there over the 'farms but. 8at. zli' I woul. dn~t count or, it. i mean you've run throuE_lh the development.. Everybody's out there fertilizing ever>, weekend in that development. Conrad' Nice green grass~ yeah~ .8. at. xli" It ].ool{s like a fairway. Cog"ired~ So I don~'t knoll. I ~rn golf:8 to get involved i'n the storm ~at. er [flan,e.ger~]enk~ ~ don~t know the right way~ It's interesting to hear Paul talk 8Joou. t i'k beoa~.~se I haven't heard much about the funding and hoN to de ~ t ~ it~ ! .just think it s reaJ~].y irnportant tna3 ~e )~oo~ at it~ I know ~e can look a'h~ I think ~hat Paul has been sayin~ about mappins~ if I 8o back~ the environmer]tal protection committee always b~anted to map hut it Has never in the budget. It was alugays a standard, lhey said you can't protect what ~cJ you a.~o ~a~t me~u. re ~hether ~ornebody~ h~r~ing ~t or ~o~ ~nd th~ the o,~h~.~ side of thi~ Ue re~J~ly do~t k~o~ whe~ ~here~ A~d ~ome other l~ttle is;sues~ ! think the original intent of the wetland ordinance ~as 'Lo force the app].icant te prok~e to us that thor weren't hurting anything. Nerve taken responsibility en to get ~overnmental bodies invoAved to help the applicant prove that. That was sort o{~ it's a ~ho~e different. You knell bas~cally~ the City Counci~.,, at that ~'ime~ ~ and the cornm.{ttee~ re.a.]~y ~danted te put the burden en the applicant~ Say hey~ you prove to ns that you're improving and ! don~'t knoll that ~e~ve ever dena that.a~'~.) th.~-~-~ .. s a 'Fe~ issues that ! think are sign~.ficant., in revie~in{~ ~.hat ordinance is probably pretty valid~ Ho~ to fund for this Hhole thin8~ you knoll an appropriate ~ay of doing i.t~ I guess !~d be real interested ask{n8 the City Council Hhat other irons cema prier te this~ I think there Heu].d be a whole .~ot of fo~ks that are~ especialJ~y .Ln a politica~ year that bgould be Hilling to vote this issue as a priority. I have ne doubt that lot of hofnee~ners on ~akes are concerned and ! wou~d hope that peopAe are using the ~akes are concerned ~oe~ Because my front yard is flooded with a ~hole ~ot of peop]~e~ They're not necessariAy residents~ I think the lakes are L.~ng used I guess is Nhat I~m saying and Hi. th all the accesses~ I think they re probably everAy used but on ~h~ pesitP~ve side they're being used as a recreation source and I think most people should car ~ ,.~ . Eirhart' Those were the only questions ! had. Xrauss' .T. ~].l get that stuff for you tomorrovJ~ Co'r,'r-ad' A'nything else on Paul~s staff report? 8a'LT_].i' My only question is something that isn't on there. I haven't been ~. '-R Valley come in for a permit? here the last couple t. ime~ ha... Moon l<rauss: No they have not and ii ye sent them two registered let~.~rs stating that the ordinance says that you will have a permit in 6 menths~ Batzli' How many months has gone by now, do you know? Krauss: That was in Ma}' we adopted the ordinance and I told them repea'tcedly~ I said you've got to figure on about a 3 month review process so let:s ge?.. ~orking on it. and l~ve received no response to either letter~ Nhich doesn't surprise me because I guess when Roger and I got into 'Lhis~ Ne were '~airly sure that it would come down to some sort of iitigation~ Now they may be just using this as a tact~ ! don~t kne~.~ ,es I say~ ! haven't talked to Zwiers~ They ma}' come in at the e,qd ef 6 months and start the. pro~.-e~='~.~.: and say well we're ~ork¢ng~,. on it~ ~ut the ordinance. clearly reclu, ired them to have the permit at the end ef 6 months~ Along these lines too~ ~ think you sab~ that the Council approved the Seurissen September 57 1990 - Page 38 program. They 'sere equally relunctant~ Expressed many of the concerns that. ;/ou. did. For example the applicant b~ant, ed to have a ~o'sering of Lhe }et.t..e'r o'F cTed.tt.~ The ~ayor sakd 'seL~ hob.~ abou~ doubi}'ng }t. instead. So .. · ~.t~nk of the ~ay it ~as handled They the Coun~':il 'sas very su. pl~ortive I .... ...... d . eference almost t.o see the ordinance almost like to~ they expr~:~ a NY ].ooked aL asaJ. n to see i~ it could be made Note restrictive~ not sure ~ghat 'sill come of that~ He're trying to explore that~ 8at. zl.i' I th.ink it s n{ce .f.-~ s being .oed. · ~ ..... ~ uo .... t ~ould demonstrate to Noon Valley that there are other people that th-is enco~,~passes and not them~ El!son' Right,, I think that 'sas their big pet peeve 'sas that you 'sere picking o'n t. hem. E~rha'r't' I ~'.se got. a question on tonight's agenda~ ~,ctually the one that 'sas deleted. Requiring ordinance amendment for the placement of antennaes~ Did ~ge ask for that or is this somethi'ng that you just did? ,<~au.~.-~ No~ it isn t. It falls into the realm of 'shen I get to look at eect:.ion of the ordinance~ I have problems ~ith interpretting it and understanding Nhat it was intended to do. What l~ve to!d~ in 'fact in the City C:ou. nc:il rneme~ I said t. hat 'se Hanted te~ there 'sas supposed to be de-Fini'hions that 'sere incorporated into that ordinance that never were~ There's some specific requirements I think you'd want to see~. ~application and those aren't in 't:.he ordinance. I told the City Council too it'd be my recommendation that you adepe,,. an ordinance that says clearly that antenna not be a~lo'sed en a~ricultural land guided for other uses but I said that that 'sould net~ i mean the Planning Commission's ratienaie is that that does net apply today regardless of ~hat it says Because that's not guided that 'say. Until 'Lhe nell Guide Plan is adopted. Erhart' Ne].l again I guess my feeling is, 'se have a number of 'sork items and He get a copy of this. ~. Just a 'shele lot e-F issues en there that have c~ ing on 3 years I think Just a ~ong eime and I see he's been on there for ~o _ ~. .~. issues coming up but 'so're net attacking the eld~ So we do'n~t lose site e{ -L h e m.. ~ Krauss' Can I upclate you on a couple of other things too? conrad: There 'sas one comment that I had Paul and it related to your r epO'F t.. have one that's unrelated 'shile you're looking for yours. Conrad' Go ahead. 8at.~'li' Are 'se goins to do anything on the business fringe do'an here on the comprehensive plan? Krauss: In the land use ].anguage~ 'shich Mark and I are 'so'rking on to get the final :trafts done~ I added a description of discussions that 'de've had on that area and some indication of a desire as te ,shat you. migiat 'sant it to be and 'f:.hen the irnp].ementation section~ 'so're talking about looking at that o'rdinance and looking at changing it and such but it's not going te be resolved as I see it by the Comprehensive Plan. There's just not enough Plannin8 Commission Meel:.ing Sep'h..emh, er 5, 1990 -- Page 39 t. ime t.o tackle-that.. L.,Jhat the comprehensive plan does is provide the ra'L'..¢_onale for deJ. ng what you had discussed doing. 8atxli: ! gu. ess I'll be interested in seeing what you've done on that. Erhar'/c~ Yeah again, I'd like to see progress. ~3a. tzli: That's a good step because if we issued the next comprehensive pi. an and we don't change 'the focus and the direction, I think in 10 more years it will be too late to do anything de~4n there by the time we look at i.'L agaif'~. Ellson: I didn't eve'n k'now the State was going to this .... now ~e're gotlq.g to be doing this in 'e!? P:hrer. s' They had a big thing on public radio today en this. E].Lsen: Oh did 'lzhey? Conrad: Go ahead Paul. i just realize what ! ~ant. ed to talk about,. You've 9et some minutes iqere, lhe comprehensive p?,an update was Nhat Z was interested in. P,}au~;o ,./~,s L. acld is: aware anci I think if you read the memo i'n the packet the Metre Counc~.]~ .[aid something of a bombshell, on us 3 weeks ago. i had given ther~ our population projections in December. They neglected te comment on it until 3 ~4eeks ago at ~hieh time they said, by their computations they -Figured ~e're entitled to 95 acres to the HUS¢4 line. Te put it:. mildly, I call. ed up the staff member and read them the riot act' for abeu. t a half hour, 45 minutes. ! spoke te, Hell I didn't speak to his supervisor. ! spoke to our Metre Council. representative and the Hayor .. The upshot, of that is is the response that's in the report te the Hetre Council. giving them a].]. the data that ~e have ~hich ! think quite clearly says that t.,Je know ~,~ha% t4e're ta!kin8 about. ~,Je know what's on the ground here. Ne updated, Sharmin ca~ed a~]. the employers in town. Ne sot a current empJ. oyment count which is 2,500 employees higher than they're saying we should have 10 years from new. We've been saying that we have about 12,000 people. P~s Je Ann said when we 8et it, there is a Ged because the ~ 'h . , aa~a carne up We got the preliminary census cou. nts Nhich confirmed by the ~ay we're bigger t. han Chaska. I don~t kno~ if that's good or bad. We've outgrown them in population, not in number o~ househoZds but according to their counts there Has lJ,.~F00 people in Chanhassen in ~%pril. Sharmin's checking their counts and beZieves that they missed some homes~ ~e~ve 119 building permits since last year. I assume somebody~s living in some ot: those somepZace so ~e're over 12,000. ~Z! that data was presented to t:.he Hetro Council along with a recurrent thorne that says !etas not play sisatistical games. Let's .look at real..ity and here's the reality o~ how we~ve been developing in this community in terms of hob~ many acres ~e~ve been taking down a year for industriaZ 8re.th. Even at the reZativeJ.,y modest or moderate rates of groNth that. we're anticipating over the next 10 years, which are about 50ss or 60sa of ~hat~s been happening in the last 2 or o ears, at ~hat rate He need 150 acres a year availa~e of -¢'esidential land. Sc>me ~n[:ere:~ting things have happened at the Hetro Counc.~.~. Ann Hurlberg ~.,Jho manages the cernprehensive planning section, for reasons that have not. been '[:uA~y exp.tored, pulled the staff member that was Horking en P..1. anning Cornmission Heeting September 5, 1990 -- Page 40 the project off~. They have assigned a new staff mernber to it that 5o Ann and I and Ha'rk met. ~,~itln him today. Hi.s name is Rich Thompson and I've met him before, hle comes from .local planning as does ~Tn'n Hurlberg ~hich is a breat, h of fresh $.fLr over Lhere because ~.'fz interjects a i. itt. J.e reality that m been rniss;]ng frc, rn t'"he ~et~o Council. It ~ ~ '. ............. x~nd of blah me aNay because Ine offered to meet out here and in fact d~d come out here. ~"ve never hsd t. hat happen before ~,git. h a Hetro Council person~ ~rnmings' The;:,'r, .... tting you u.p l<rauss: Yeah, that could be. That's ~4hat Don ~X~sh~,~orth indicated after that. Other interesting things that have happened though is Savage requested a 2~400 acre NIUS~ line additien that ~4as initially epposed by staff. Rich Thompeon b~orked on that and they agreed that ~hiJ. e they ~ere relunctant to~m:~ee~ it~ that it didn't remuire. , any, ne~ additional_, regional facil, i'h~.e's. Tha. t an'> impact was basica]~J.y a iota], one ,end that 'hhey admitted that the regional medel ~4as defective there and t. hey autherized it. ~nd ~,~e~re a ~arger cemrnunity than Savage is and He~ve got 6~000 jobs that.. Savage deesn~t, and his initial 'reactien~ take t~is,~ Ni+'h~ a grain ef salt but his ....... {nitis. t reaction Has that that r~mr~oeH. ~.~n'~eo' ' a different. ~,~ay o'F hand].ing HtJSA line amendments and he didn't see Hhy the ~gay they handled that b~a:}}lq~'t3 applicab].e te the i.,~ay ~4e are precessing this. He agreed that our approach in terms ef dealing b~ith this in a comprehensive bgay instead Of pieo(-} mea].ing its SaS the optimal bJa}..' of doing it arid ! guess it b~as very receptive, bde~re going te "Fo!io~ that up by a meeting that ~e~re geing to have Mike Hunson and ~nn Hur~berg and some ether o'f the rep staff peop.~e there is coming cut here in the next ~,geek or tse. We~ll give them a bus tour. B.le~.L~ give them our dog and pony shel.,~ and ho~ them cur statistics~ I think ~,Je~re en very goed ground. The census ceming as it ela8 bsas 'really -Fortu. nske. I mean it rea].].y backed up everything that ~4e~ve said. The Hetro Cou. ncil model is se far out ef sync. So far off the Hall that it's outrageous to think that. anybody bJould pu.t any credibility at a.~A to the thing. ~'nd Het. re Counoi! staff pret. ty much has alHays admitted that.~ They haven~L changed anything but they've admitted that. lhe long and the short of ~.t. ie I~ve ~ot vet,/ meed exeectatiens that cur precess can stay on track. Nmi4 a decision may ~e].} have to be made if in fact He can't reach some sort of acceptable cempromise ~sesition en this~ that yeu may b~ant to re-eva~uate it and yON may ~sant to decide~ you may decide to change the plan. Yeu. could decide that the plan Mas right and ask us te carry it 'l:or~Jard at hhe Hetre Oounoi. J.. I ~m certainly not un~iJ.~ing to de that because I~ve maintained since l~ve gert. eh here that the Hetre Ceuncil is ~,~Jay off Base on this ene and ! think we have the statistics and the data te prove that. E'rha~-'t: The quest, ion is, do you feel the plan is, ~here ~e have it today~ ,~ .... o o n t b e J_ { e ~..,' e is k~- 'right? b,le can't, expect to ,se].]. yogi something that you " ' ., t<rauss' Oh Tim, ! m very cornfortable tna~. this 'represents a reasonable rate of {tro~,.~th. Not an excessive rate~ Net anything like cleave been experiencin{i that is so teugh to get a handle on in the last. 3 years. 8ut one -Lhat is cosni, zant. c) f 'hhe 'l:act 'Ichat ~.~e rnay be going into a recession. ........ orr]er c_0, . ~ The -~ ~-~..t that the rate of,~cl'-~u~,e,~'~hold Tormation {o dirnini~,.~ng. On 'i'he "-' han,t~ 't;..he're~s every reason to think that the !ee0~s could be a real exciting decade in Chanhassen. I~m very coNfortabie Hith that plan. PLannin~ Commission Meet September 5~ l~c?O ~ r?~ge 8at~_].i' Are you ,comfortabLe sith the 'fact that many of 'the !ando~4ners north of TH B probab.l.y b.~on't develop and so ~..~e're putting the ~,.~,rong ].and ~ jc~ J.. ~.N.:~~x Krauss: 8rian~ l:cl prefer to be pragmatic sith that. We're talking about a !0 to !5 year time horizon here. ! sill neve~ dispute ~hat somebody tells me at t. his point ir~ tc_ime shat they're feeling but that's an a~,~fully ].cng Ica_me. I'F they don~t develop it in 10~15 years~ that's their business L-~.t t~'her~ s sufficient land avai' ~-' ~ ~ ... ~ _ . - u. aule that uhere are other opportunities Ne projected a rate of growth to the Hetre Council and then came up b~ith a ].a'['l{~ SNp~L}].y t. hat~s semeHhat signi'[icantly under shoots the amount ef !and that k~e could have rations!izod putting in there se ~e may run out.: It's no% impess~ible or improbable that in 1997 se~ll have run out ef la'nd again but yeah, I~m not uncomfortable ~ith the homeosners positions. Nobody~s trying to force their hand. 8at~xii~ y',-orn a cit'>.' perspective of if these people don:t deve!op~ do you hays el'lough land if a ma.lority of the people in that area don~t develop t:..i~e ne×t 10 years? Kra~..~es: !Ye].]. you. knos you've got a letter in here from a property caner ~t"~o~s in the stud>.' area ~,~ho ~ants t.o be inc!uded~ l~,?e heard~ ~,Je~ve had other leLters come through. I~ve heard through the grapevine that eno the better knoe~n developers in robin is putting together a series of properties inside and outside that study area~ I don~t knoll shich ones they're t~:~lking about but Il'ye got to believe that there are enough parcels. ~de~ve had peo~)].e here testi-~ying that they sant 20 acres here~ 30 acres there that they ~,.~ere b~i].].in8 to de so~]ething today. If that happens over the next 5 years~ I still think you have enough~ 8a'Lz!.{.: Nhat does Eden Prairie~s recent pronouncement that the}: ~;ant more land in the HUSA line de te our request? l,'rau:ss:' Their announcement ~,as kind of interesting because it sas one that sas made to the nesspsper and not to the Metre Council~ ! spoke to ~nf'~ Hur].berg abotlt it and she had never heard about it~ In fact I sent her that article. ~de have never envisioned ourselves in a competition sith F!den Prakrie ].iRe if they set it b~e den~t. ~den Prairie for some reason envisions it that say. ! ~ve spoken to their planner~ in fact I made you 8~4.~.re .~8:B'13 November I HeN'h ever there as a professional courtesy to Aet them k'no~ Hhat se sere doing and he maintained that Chanhassen and Ohaska ~.~ ~ ~ n~, ...... never ~,..~ould have groan at all had haen Prairie been .~.e~-~a~ respens{bke and opened ~p their Ht.~5~ line -~urther. I think that that is a {acetious argument. ~ don~t see that it holds Hater at ail and in '~act during the 1980~s~ ~{den Prairie had plenty ef land te devele~ and developed at a dramatic rate and Chanhessen and Chaska Nanaged to eek out their sh~l~ as ~.gell~ 5o I don~t see that as cempetition~ Conrad: I told Paul no'L ,.'co hold a public hearing on the comprehensive plan until !4e kne~' ~ghat the Her Council sas thinking about our plan~ Ne didn't so to the pubAi,:3 and present a 2~000 acre addition ~xahen Hot Council was saying no~ Ne~re only going to give you 400~ And Me'ii. never knob.~ ~s Paul ssid~ yen can go in and fight and try to battle but i think {rom the stand?ei'r'~t of presenting to the corr~muni, t'>.'~ ! think I ~d like %e present to them some'i.ct~iq, g 'Ll~a.t ~e '~'.~h~.{nk~s going t.o {:. 1,~,~."f.~ and that b~as my directi',/e to K:aul. Now Paul~ originally we were scheduled to have a public hearing t,..!hei'~? It.- ~,as Lhis month ~,~asn~t it? ~,~~-~_..--~.~' bdo had set two~. . ,..geil ~,ge ' ~ ~led you to ~--s.~. if }o~' ',, Herr~., .a,./,:~i. iabJ. e on t~o separate dates~ One was September I forget what and the other'.s C)c:t.c.~be'r" lO'th~ Right. no~4 clearly the September option is out. Hark and T are since'Bi, ns to have the material a].]. completed {or a meeting on October !.OTB. O'.onrad' And you're meeting with Met Council people? F.(r4,,us,s: Tha!.-.. hasn't been schedu, ied b, ut we're going 'Lo try and do it this 14 ,'-.-_-.', e k o r T'i e x t . ' ~- meeting~ what sense ,.4i1..~. ~. ..... get For (i11 o 'ri r a d" ,'"' ~"l d t-.. h ~.~ i r 'F 1. e x i b t .~. i 'L y ? Krauss: l.,~e].l they ~ii! not give us~ i mean i don't expect them t.o give us and they ye indicated that t. Jney re not 8ol,.ng t'o give us a l~tCe~ that says; this is fine and dandy. Nhat i'd like to corne out of this is a'n understanding o'F what we're proposing. ~In agreement on their part that it.~s reasonable and rational. They Nay have some details. Uhen they do a forrna} revie~.~ b~hich they have net Been asked to do o{ course~ that they may come up mith items gu. ch as water quality which was one ef their concerns, lhat they may feel bse haven't approached this froN the t. hey~d like us to. 8ut that there's a basic understanding that Hhat we're rec!ues'Li_n~ is reasonable. '- ~ ' You know what T'r'n ta. iki~',¢, about r"on'~'ac.i ~.,ut ;t seems is~ke the numbe~ 'Lhe'>' could debate a lot of things I suppose in there but the premise for lancl use J. 3 growth. ~nd don't you have to come out? This is one o{' those 8bs(.)],.kl ~-" ' ~ we w are we ,..~ss. Nhere are you tooay and b~hat~e~ the proj~r'fer4~.~.~.~ .,.] ~.~. ,her~.. today shoulcJ be an absolute. You sheu_ld be able te come out with agreement on-Lhat. Then the only place to disagree is percent of growth over the next 15 years. P~re we going te get a sense ef their agreement te our nuNbers2 Rlhy should ~,~e ge through the pi. arming process ~hen they're t..eta].J.y~ when they may be totally against the projections, iet makes everything downstream 'From these projections invalid. Krauss: it does and that's why ~,~e went to them in December with those i-'}u, mbers before we got into it. Conrad: And they rejected them. Kr..suss LI,~].i they didn't. Tiley said N.e agree In fa.c~ Hike Lu '~' Nho~8 been...been around forever, agreed that their regional rnedei Has ~.4ay out of whack. He agreed '[shat at the very ~eas'Ic they ~4ere b.ji.~.l, ing to accept. the IH 2!.2 BIS numbers which were considerably higher than theirs, aitheush they've 8!~].1 never made an effi. cia]., change and that they b~euid 'Bake a revie~.J o-F wha'h we had. The reasons for proceeding for~darci... ~'hough,_ Ladd are several. ?irst of a].].~ we're hand].i, ng ourselves ~it.h the Hetro Council the manner i'n which we ~ant te be dealt Hith ~hen a developer deals ~,~it.h us~ { .'.~ /4e si'l'3 ,:toHn ahead of time and try to work issues out. Host people den~t do that. Host people just ge ahead ~4ith their HUSP-~ line amendment and :slap it on the desk in the Hetre Council and see what happens~ wou. ldn"t: want us to be u.r,-fairiy pre~Su, dicing oL¥'selves because we~ve 8one an ext~".~:~ step-up with the Hetro Counc~i.. A reasonab!e step but a In addi. l~'ion~ staff is sometimes~ their staff i.s sometimes bound by policies · ichau ar.<~ w'r'o¥~ and in thei~ pro'?ess~)~c~..~ capac.~..y, they're still defending a policy. Then they'll tell you on one side this is silly~ On the other s.{.de the'/ sav ! ve go~.: to wri "' ~ ' ~ , · , ' ,~e the thing up thzs way Nc'ye kept Harcy bJari't::~:, ou'r Council representative informed of this the whole time. Ne"re iu 'th,:~ Southwest Community Government ~ssociation u.~here they've been worki.'ng on similar issues. Dirk DeVries is a councilmember who represents some o~' t. hose ,:'~.kst-r'~'"~'" ' ' ~' . Seth Dirk and Harcy ....... , .... WhO I ye known }or a while . are h~.~h.ly Har ~ be extraordinarily . 'q snpport, ive o{ what we're deing~ . cF ca~n .~-~ .... iv~ 'For those of you who haven't met her I think ~H~,e o ~,, p e r .:~ .J. <:~ .~ , re~-;so'n to the extent thaf we re convin~.c~J-Pn~ h ~8 rig the r~gh',Z pla/~, and !'m comfortable with ~t bu'h the more importa i?; whether you're comfortable with it~ If this is the right piaT~ then we ::sh0t. lld havo t.t-° ........ ,,. ~..::. wkZ~ngnes~ to carry ~t (:onrad' bJe].l .see that's not a p'roblern~ The ~.~iliingness to carry it ','or~,.a~"e buf: you don v car'r"y ~f ~orward -, '~ ~ins . ........ ~g~.~ t a wa~l that's not going bend. If we're close. You know if ~e'~e, ._~,,~o~=~'ring~o~.~,.... , 2~000 acres corning in'ko khe HU5~ because it's prelected and they:re i~500 acres er ~,¢hatever it is~ we~'r'e el. ese. 8ut ~{f they're saying 400 acres and we~r~. =°~000~ we~'r'e r:o~t close. Ne~re net in agreement, so~ yeu knell and I den~t knew that. I want te present a pub].ic hearing te peeple when you think that there may be 'kbat.._. , roadblock... , .qnd_. you're saying no. Ne're b. to,-k{ nS. , .,. on that, roadblock bu. st. leos- ~, t. he question i':'o, hoN., do Ne, what I'm hopeful e{ is you. , cut of those rneetins~:B you have a sense for, are we Su. st be.%ns foolish ir] thi. s request. . t.,Jr]s.e you re car yin8 Althouoh I think most people here believe 'that ' ...... ' r. fo'r-t,Ja}'d, I wa:~ a2Lway's ['nor.'9 asressive J.r~ ternls of the YqtJ. Mbers~ I k~qot~ that and I -Felt these were conservative 'numbers. Se I think the City and ~e are '1--'-- ~o~ their comf~)r..a~.)}:-~ w~{th them but lC, you cai's~t ger.-- ' a feeling -~--~ receptiveness te {leHing or increasing~ then ! think we have some strategy to -i:~.gure ouL i~ere. Do we present to the community eur plan er de we F~res;ent to them tho di{ferent plans? One that the Met Ceuncil $,]i].i accept and one that we want to go a'f'ter and you knew~ the last time we did thi. s~ the Net Council didn~t~ He presented tho p!aT'~s and they teok theirs and we .~.-. ~- Nau~..l~. I t. hink the danger of doing ~hat. io- they'.Il accept lower 'r, urnber~ Y o u h a v e t,::) g,:::; {~ In t h e r e w i t h t h e s e a r e t h e rn 1[. n i n] u m n urn b e r s a n d >' o u h a v e t o confident and comfertable those a.s minimurn numbers. Krau. ss: ! think you. also have to realize that the Netro Ooumoi. 1 stat:,¥ oppesed the L. ake P-~nn Interceptor and that was enly built threush a x-c)ordin.a'k.~-~d... ._ progran'l by several ~ommuniti~s,~ ~ with legal as<~istanceo and,. everything else. If there's a higher ground on this~ I mean ethicly and ~' ~ TO ~ve pro'F~-~ssionaJ..ly, .~. rn ve~-y cornfort~,ble Isi~h b~hero Ne're .qt on y'ou an ~dea of the kinds o-f policies the Hetro Council is bound by~ they actua].~y had a committee recommendation that TH 2k2 go f"rom 4 lanes~ 'Fro ~de'n Prairie to TH ZO1 4 lanes. TH ~0~ it dives outside the HUSA they thoL~ght 'k. hs'!: should only be a 2 ia~]e highway, b]hen it gets back to Chsska it.~s back in the MLISA iine~ They felt that should be a 4 lane s::tand up {n f'r'ont c:,{ people and say semething like that? Well their staf-F did .... ~ ~ . they'll agree to ... h,la.. F~iL{TjFlk NOW t3he'/"l'e tek.ling Chaska eha.. okay, .. o + m t--~ F, ].. 9' o a g p.'- 4. .-~ep,.re .._e'r' .., ;0 - P _ 4- b(-:.---Jn{j ,:!. la'r'les LAp 'hO Chasks but. it's going ~o end at CR 4I because out the otha:~ :~'u:uo.~.x o'f C,a,~.~ka it v.~ou, ld promote devekoprnen*- ~her~ they don't- k.~ant And Ci~sska~s saying t,~e~i t. hat-~s absu~b~ You~e going to dump al~ these tr.'i.i:~s dob.,ll through our do~.~nt.o~.~n. Their position is~ if that's b~hat you~"re ,',oirio to c/c:,~ don~ build a high~,ay Nrhar'!:'.' Nha'k. are ~ge going to do, close 35 do~,~n to ~ ].aries 'For an¥'Lhing · nort'.h o'F the ?,LISA line going up to Duluth? l<rauss' Ne.l..]. .it sounds like 'that ~,~ou.~d be conforming to tNeir policy and ~. ~ ~...no I gu. ess I r ~o{tions *'~'~ ~ e~ ~ ~ *'Nose sro absu d pc..~.. ~.,,au uh~.r star{ is f,.,rced fo ~.a. ke a ~ C e F t s .1~ i'm iL 7 d o n ' L L,.., a n t 't o a s s i s t t h e m i n t m ~,~,. ~. ~ C.o,,'rad N.~:].i bJ~.:.'- 'r'e goi?'r~ to need },our guidance as a result of ~¼ !..;. 'n c:. ~,~ .~ f i t. ~,,.~ a s a c o'r p o r a t i o ri . T N e c o r p o r ~ ~.ion~ ~' ~,~i ~ .~ ~ d i c t a t. e n u m b e'r' s ~'~ h a t Lr-'~e'>.,' 'r-o .go.~_ng ~',..e ~ per'Form to. I ].~ ~en ~f to t, hat Tbx~y~l].. ~ell . J" ~ ~ -'~ operating depart..nsnt ~4Nere ~hey.. ~xp. eo~ to be in tNe oom~n~ o ~: yea. Ts. Then those of:)erat~ng depa'ctments have to come back and te].], the corporation hot,] % hO}r.' ~re._.. , ~,o-'.i rig,..., t.o get there . bdo ~e, dolng., the bottoms up. approach and sa'/~.n.g~ and u.~e don't Nave the corporate goa~, u~hatever and so it's a ~ittAe bit different from tNe corporation Horld and it's not necessarily in sync t.,.~h~cN is obviously ~,~Nat you,'re finding T ~,Ue-- "'~ .... ~. ~S m nervous that poe~re goi. n8 to come bac:k and say kge're recommending 2~000 and we~re going tc:, Neld ,.i pu. blriC Nearing avid u.~e'rc Being to No].d that pub]~i,c Nearing yet 14e Nave a real Sood chance at really mi.~'~'m~ng t.h~ mark and %Nere'rore ~eLling the C of nl-~anhassen ~:.Nat all these pubii~ hearings ~,.~e re n.)c even c~...~...~ ballpark that's going to be accepted. TNat bothers me a little bit.. Tha~- ':'s jusk_ nou a position Z k~ant to b~ in T k~o~;id ' nope ~l,.J e could ........... numbe~-s a little bit but not be that fa'r off after going through our public }'!ear.Lng ............ T'm no~ ].ookkng %'orb~ard to going-t~hrougk, ou,- rraub~,- :~_c r'~sa' .... ,~ i rigs and then to be tot. ally s..~ith a. plan that's not acceptable, i ~aant. to have ,s. rea]. good feeJ..tng t. hat ~e're going to ~in ~,~Nen ~.~e go in to the Hot Council. ?lrnmings: I don~t look at. it that ~,gay number one. On tNe other hand~ I t. Nink maybe yo'd.'re right. See ! b~eu~d net approach this problem tNat e~ay at a]..].. I ~gould say kge have te draf't~ ~,~e~re required to draft a comprehens.i, ve pi_an and in the plan !.,.Je~ve got te give them our numbers on our c. JroMt h. Conrad' Al-~d k. hey ,:ton"!~ agree. -~ ~ne ],.1 of that speedb~ork and {t ~.o_d,~, us t.o tNese And we ye c~c a conc].u, sions. He're~s tNe plan you asked us to produce. You 'l:el~lL us Nhere t,.~rc:,ng on our a. ssurnp-~.~ o'ns ~ ~ f ~e are You" rr~,~sth b~:.c.:,.u.-~,: th:ts p ~ Conrad' BL~'t:. ¥o~;. knok.~ iu.'=''" ..... al~ b.lrong because the ~,', ,o.u.p~-',' =-'~-~ ~hould 'na~e~ "~..~ee~l" ......... o ....... ,.~, is t,,~o~ ked r~.aht yo~, ag'roe on ~-he number's and -!::Non ~ .~ ~ -.~ ~ ~. . it s c, ur job t.o ficjure c, ut. ho~. P~ll the planning ~..caf, ~ ~fter those " ~ b e e Ti nrojectiens a.r,':~ agreed to, the~~ you can do a~ ~ tk', stu'rf that t.,~e ve i ...... '~ ~ ~ ' '~ ~ ~ ' do{ns but s.se, a!] 'Liqe st,,f{' ~e~ve oeen doing zs invalidated "~' ~' ~' ~...,i'.:-~,0. cj~'e.::? ~,.~ith u.i~os.s up 'f'r'o~,~- numbers v.~hich ~e cid a yes ~ and a half ' - ' rneny yea}'s ago d~.d ~4e do tNose numbers? Yea'r' or t~go or b~hat, ever. ;:: n l't 5 1] g P- o n'~ fil ;i_ s s 5. o F1 H e e 'is i n ~_l-~ pt.?mber 5, logO. - Page 4-5 [{rnn~.~.n,'~:=; I u...~o'r-"~">' ladd t,~au y'ou-re~,?'u+'t'ing ..... yoursei"? in a posi'~'ion,~ . whe'¥~e~, .... ' ~'-¢B kike you want to know not '>he r ..... ,].'Ps but af ]eac:'[ that. '>.'ou ',~e goL a ::~o.,~ chance R>efore you ~.axe something down to the :x~'t:.c,r~ a¥'~d I si~uet~:~ ]~ ~r~'~ sayinS~ to rne tha't~s, you t4ind u.p being inactive bec:au.~:~:e yOLt~'e sitti'ng hex'e guessing about something~ Just like the st. aff rnernber <;h.c~Se. J_sst week~ the Met Council may change in a month before we get o~Jr public: hes. rlngs: oc, ne~ rou re puttin.g you'rrse~'~ in just an imp,:.}s:~}~ib].e gI..~essi¥~g si'Lug, riot:. I think, I guess i trust that Mark and Paul.. kno~,..~ the Field well enough that they"re net going to give u.s numbers that are 8oing Lo embarrass us. And that we can take those numbers and say tnaL~ ~ -~' 'r ~'he ~ .... " . He think Me can back up everything ' ' s ~.ge ve t~o 2 .. ~,c~t job Me oa~ in her.:} al'~,-q iL .~ea. ds us to this resu. It of 2~000 acres er whatever and there you. go. And 8o down there and support the hell out of i't. Now t. hat.~s the ~,,..~a>,' ~'d go l:)ecause i.t fee!s better to me. ,..~''<,r, ya.d:' Well_,. yc, u,.'r~-~, ...... c!oir, g it. ehe rational way Nhich is fhe process way you. know_ an~..., we have a wi an.--_ t4e go *'hrou. gh.. p~R].ic. ...... heari, n,',~'~..,. We present it. t.o Hot OC:,L.~nc:i!. I m juge saying based en the erigi'nal r eao~i, on that paul g,:}'i:.~ you know ~c:; we~-en~t in the ballpark based on the 'r-eact~on that he got., Now maybe with new people eh, maybe we are and that's not te say we're wrong because Z tl~ink we'?-e absolutely right~ Fr,'~n',i n.,.-=~s' !f ¥c.:,u think we ~¥'e, absoi, u*'ei¥,, r {ght ~ th'~n.~ ! don't, '~hink... , ~,.,~e change. the Conrad: Yeah~ i'm 'not. suggesting that we change the p!an~ i~m suggesting t. hat we know the- process. F..mmings: ! don~t think there's anyway you know it. I think a lot. of the :{{: 'L u -l? f i.,..!irid:R: up being kind of arbitrary. If they've got policies they have u.c) support th~-;t 8r~ 'l-lot rationai {,.genre put in s. r~ti. unNy posit!on er , te -l:igu'r-e out how they're going to react~ You said someth~.ns else earlier L.co and >'ou said~ I don't sant to So and ask for 2~000 acres a'nd have them te]. }L. rge i'c' ' s 400 ~ [,.Jo~. .,. ~ is that go{ns.: ~ to hap~)en?. ~.~n.~,,, that happen or are t h e y ,'] u. s t. s a y i n g n o t o t h e 2 ~ 000 ? ! s n ~ t i t a n a i I e r n o t h i n g d e a i ? ' ' i .... ? Kmmings~ .Ooes ~.t ge'c. negotiated at that point more or I Kr,:~uss' ' To be hone'-~'.~., I don~t know if there's a. '!:ai~..,.. safe meca, aYe{sm,, .,., i'nto t? H .~e etro ,~.ouncil as there is wi. th lecai government. You Knew~ you make a recomrriendation. The City Council approves something. If somebody fee].s dis:enfranchised by that decision and they think they have some ~]~rON1ld8 'ilo pt~r:~U.{:3 it, t.h:"~Y-., can take it to cou,'t, . i don'~,. know +'ha'~'... .... '~here,. is an>" highe'r' g]'"ou, nd with 'the Hetro Counc~l. ....... Hha* t-k,,eir past pr act.., ce{ has been i::-~ to weigh you down w.ith this morass of endless meet¢ngs and no't ~,',ak{n~ decision's and give'ns you a little ~r~ and nor there and nit pi. ok{rig and mal<ing you sign cont'r'acts for the Lake Ann Interceptor thau. a ........ s p,...nJ..tJ, ve in some rega. rds. l,,Je're 'trying 't.o put all that behind uo ~'~ and ~.al<e .d fre:{~]', ~ook at_ thi. s. T~. think, they have some ~resk-,,, +'aces_ tbeYe, and ~ha1::.~s sts{: F people.., i:;s ,./er ,:.~ ,, j. n.iic~:.~- ire' ~ ,. of 1:.he ~ r.,~ effor~-~....:s ~o._. ...be rno~e, -~-espons { v~~-), ~.. ~. to l,-,,--at o.'-,,,e'~'r,m~,~,t. They have a serious problem over there with people that havo nc..,ver wo'r'kod in e'*¢~ eal woxld Who 'nevex 9e% o~,~ o-F , a bee ..... 1 i (?V e '.~E;; ~' &13 {. :2:1.i, i.' c; s t h a t ar e ge ne-,- ated -k hat ,:~, ~',- e b~:sed.., on I0 year o ]..,~ ;(t.'s rel:re:';h¢~ng to ta~k to people ].~_ke P~nn and Rich today ,1ook¢ ~....Je've ~'enll'/ go't. 'L~. ¢~'- ' ' " t"~op,:2!'u.,~ 'IL. hat ~t¢ csn move forward. 8ut kf we don't and c~o, nc; t}"~s s.s, ! think it's the right. ~ay to handle snls bu.t {'h{s is not 'Lhe N.:--ty' inet;;!:. ,:;onihlL:¥'~il3.Les h8. ve bandied ¢.t. Agaifl, i do'iq't w~!ll.% to pre.lud.{.ce c:,~'~'se]'v, es ~ 'nra{ri.>' r) y the Tat:.. that we've tried '~'~,'~, work 'Bn~,.~$ o~ + at a su~ . zeve!, iET ~,.,,e c:an't~ I think there's other mechanisms to pursu, e l'!2, ac ]ea,.;s'h a'L '.:.he J"letre COL~.f'~C;!. Lebbying e?ferts er whatever and He weuld net be u. nwil]~ing to do that if that's what you. want us to do. So I hope bJe can I '"-'*' ' it' C:'t ...... o.-.-~.-,.].{-~:.,,.~.,.~ .... ,. 8U.t ~-ealiet{cally,, ~ even i.{ bJe go. We get their s,..a~ ~ s approval~ they have 'i2~) ,?r.. et:s,:~l., .... u it. ~..hen as weJ.]. ~ N'r'at~.:--ss" It:s true and then the}' have a subcornittee that revieb,~s it. and then ~'!:.~s the ~.,,~hoLe F.!etro Oo.J. nci! tbs.'t3 revie~,,~s it~ C:o¥~rad: See~ that's what. bothers n:e. if their sta{'l= ca'n~t accept it, and they shouJ, d be J_itera].Ay ].coRing at the nu. mbers~ i don't understand~ Suess iL rea].ly tethers me Paul that ~4e ceuid have had that turned dewn to bs~;~in N~t:.h a-l:her ~4e put ~n a couple years and then they ge back and debate the TINiT[bc~Y8~ It'S .jU. St iike~ why didn't He get some kind of consensus en h' - . ..... - e the svstern~ _ ne nun~ber :s i n -I: he '¢ {TM© '~ p ]. ac e. A nd I. r ea.~. ~ze~ ' that's l~rads:3~ 4',nct in fac:t, o,,en ~"hou. gh ~t's not the sysf.--~rn b.~e tried ~hat'° t.,.~hy we gave 'ishern the stu'Ff 9 months ago~ C:onrad' Yeah, ancl t. hat~s real bothering because we"re pu.',atip, cj in a ~ot o-F dc~,~ns'L, ream- time assuming~ tcha~,~ they might agree ~ith 'Phese~ numbers~ .-r~ they dc) n't a.g¥'ee bJith the nur'nbe¥'s. ~'> :a +' -x i i ':..,. ........ -r,. gu. ess i've never assumed that they're agYee with 'kherfi. . '~. have a o ~' ,':,... -¢ a t a .,.1 ~. s t i .3 ,../i e w p o i n t p e r h a p s .. H ki r p h y ' .s L a,~s. ~ Z .F, s o m,~ ~- t h ~ n.:-,~ ' s !:.0 g,::) ~"~'ong, it:. will.. ,.... aUSS' One thins -r' 'rn beginnlng to get concerned ~4ith ,s: ~Je he].¢~ our ~sLlb]_i,:2 i. Yi-¢,:ll)rrf~at!o¥! meetings ear].y in the SLifrlNer. Now maybe there ~4oLild haws been optimal t. imin8 but we had eneush public interest that ~e really had te cio 1:hem then and Get them out o{~ the way. Ne had heped te ho.~.d the public hearings ~f] September and when we do hold public hearinss, we're c's,:l){.f~g 'k.c) tall< i;o both p.apers~ We'll. get articAes in ~3F~e'r"e. v~,::~ .[1 renotii:y everybody ~.,Je've net'.if led in the past. The longer time elapses frem those . ,,,.~t-ings unt~.l whene,.~er J.4e ho.~d tnls puo].{ ~ he.aring public in'Form.~;tion r,~,~. .... - .... we're lesi. ng mome'ntum, issues that ~.4e heped to be reselved, may net be becau, se peopl_e, E don't know, they had a chance to rethink them but new F)eop].e become invo].ved. Ns'ye had examples of land changing hands and the hen ewner t4ant, s te de this and that. I'm ve'r'y ].serf o{ taking a pretracted arneL~nt o'f time beEere ~,Je set back to "folks whe are ioeking te us 'f:or some ansNe'r's., i g~c'L ca.lJ_s pe'r~'4iodic;a~ ly saying ~eJ..l, where s ~.t at? I ...n~u~,,~ ~'.hrenr:!:; T+. juot on-~ sta'',~ rnber I:. ?: ]. ~_ ' t.,,I,:::... ! 3. i f t h a"- ::~:; t a f f rn e m h e r , a c c o r d i rt.g t o ,o a u ].. .] .! :.::: o n ' F' 1 t.~ ~.~.: '~g e ..) ~.. ~. -a t S o t. o u ~,'- p r o o f { r o m t n :~ ~ e n s u .e e 'r e o n s t r o n g e r g r 0 L111 d . 8at.?:]..~ .... ' pr'o..)ect..ts my se'nse, Now that~o~ p¥-obably ,.v. otal~¥ ~,~"rong, ,....'~Ol-l'r, .dd' Irot t,..~h.Pit,e.,ver 1'easolq . (.ge don r.e,~ kNOtd t,.~ha'fl r8_8.:~so¥i8 . crnrl-,,i.ngs }lob~ lol~,g ' -' ~ ~.. ' n,.~ ~e been ~o-rking on this stupid comprehens:~ve pl. an'7 ~ -l.:.hink ~,~e've .ju.s'i.:. got to get ~t done. ~--t'~,~i' They' have to 'tell ,,s .... F'-F{cial!'? ~ri, a't it.;~-, worng I n~ean i don~t ' ' "-.~1.}., 'Lei.~ us it's right t. n ~ n k ~,~ e ,:2 a n ~.,~ a i. t f o r t. h e rn ~3 o u n o'fi '[: i c z .~.~ ~ ,, . , , -~-~ ~, .. ~ ~.,~ .-~o going to agree ka{th us They' a. hrens: I c]or~'t 'think any don't have the pokoer to do it anyboay, bOhatever they say has to go to a :5~nhcommittees and then like Paul said, there's so ma'ny 'rungs on that ].adder, they"re not Soi. ng te cernmit themse].ves to anythi, ng. F}mn;inc~s.. ' I bet the ,~,~'taff rnembers can't even do a real. pre~'J.,.'.cting ~,,!hat's goJ_ng to happen to it. ...... ' ,~,., o'F a ne~-~ bay of handling Savage. And a.s their staff member indicated today and as I~ve conc].uded h:.}v~ n?':j ].(:;,el{ed .at it ~ t~e 're no d{ '[:{eren~ .... . ......... ~ s ic:,t, of respect, s~ ~,Je~'r'e in a better position because bge~ve done~ Savage had .a piec:ernes.], p.tan. '.5,avage didn't even go the ~hol. e route of doing a net.,.,~ compreheneJ, ve plan. bJe're larger 'thar'~ they are. ~hey have more 'room t.o orot,~ S,:3, I ,,.,{]_i keep y,ot~ pos~r4 nn that but I guess barring rny and Hark's i nabi], itl/ to comp] ere.. the draft, in tlr'ne ~ ~4e ~re. shoc, t.{ n8~ for that wr'ct..ok'.~....er u,~, ~ ...... i~ ~. ~d eT-1v{siorl ~,~:~ve ~'o have s clear asenda fer a public hmaring~ ~,~h~u i ~,.Jc)u...~. ..~ ..... ~ to ho].d rno'r-m t. hsn too, {_s .a'is"t:er t,~e hol. d a pub].ic hea'r'ing~ 'you may ~.~a,,,~ . ...... bas:~i~u u.F) on '!:.he test. imony '},'ou~ve heard ..... c-~r~ ,...:er ., , !.sOo -- Page. ~ .,. ~]l n ~ ~ i mean you ;' ve he].o cioe ~},'J.D!~,. o , ,~.._., I Ti8 . You. ~ k/e :_. s up 'i:.o you ~-c, make the decJ. sJ. on a ou an ma~.:.e j'!-_ that ¥~ight' if 'you ~ho ...... bu.t i envision a rather late meeting and }',:l~.~"r-.::~ pl-obably 8,:D.{.lqS to ~gant to do it Nhen you're fresh the f:o!.Eo~.~ins Nee k. hone i+' doesn't no in'.---. November F~hren:::_:~' ~'.r!~ 't:h.'.-'}',-::~. , .. ...... ;~n7 i:}f~o~-~.., pi. ace_ to ho~d i~,. than - ~,er~; 8TI il ha\fe Or~e Conrad ",.~.o.h,~ that; ~Jould be the thing to take e !ooked st:. hoidi, ng it in the school and apparent].y the schoc:i c.!500.00 a n~Sh{l. Ne].].~ ude have te rent au. die/visual equipment "-' meet. i~,8 room~ it.~s not the beet You kno~ 'it's for people to :'see thJ. ngs. This room has capacity constraints. has -9~nctic)nal constraints T don~e ,k..m , -r yes , ......... rl,~b,~ . ~ ~lea'r1 ~ kJe oou!d ,:.:~vc~r ~' her ,:'r~. The E!c:kankar meetin.gs over the'r'e b~eren~t too bad. can hold ii: at Eckankar. They're almost done. 8atz].~' Yeah~ ho~g many seats do they hold there.- 400 seatse -'minings.'. ~[ get the pulp{ '~' ?:hrens' They don~t have pu!pits.~. Conrad' Let' :s th]_nR' about the proc,,~...'~R~." .e One o'r' t~o meeting.~: '...iot.~ld be brirloirlci everyone ~..oget~er .L E..~iIIK ~. -~-' thJ. nk ~,.]e shoul, d mare our dec.Lsions. The ].ast t.Lme ~Ae revieu..]ed these> the ~s~uefi:, I thi'nk bJe almost have to 'Lake the people through the issues~ the ?.Jhst~ chanqed or shot...J NNat we dJ..dn~t c,~¢~'nge To addres~ .... fa~ific:a.L.Ly ¢" ~ .. ~ - ~ ~.~ .~-~ pointc b},' po~.nt address them and fl_at out te~i the people Nhat ~4e didn't chanoe aT~d then ~,se have to be prepared to tell them You ,~il!. bde'.lt just sit there the ~,,~hole rneetincj~ :'on.,-ad~ Ther,e's no+'hing mor~ 'frustrat.i. ng, .~e~- me te].L you- folks~ t .... not;h{ng rnore {rust. fa'Ling than"~..hese people._ to sho~4 u.p t.o +'hess.. nice ii'k.t.~''.~..~; i.n'f'orrnat:.ionaZ meetings and then not be~ie',ye ~e considered them~ Or for u.s to $;:ay ~4el! I~rn net. sure ~hy >.Je did t. hat~ Ernming:--s' F-qt.~_f tha ~- 's goi. ng "-o Lapps S.ep'ker'r~J.)er r:..~, '~geO~ ,, - Psge 4e_ or wro,r19].y, we c:onsidered t. hern~ 8L-',t to sit up here and ignore the that L}'-~,.}7' !:::,'fought up or not know why ~,.Je decided ilo do something %heir ,:oerception. Ne, it reinforces their perception of ho!4 go,,/.SrT-~rne..i-~t operates se it's a big deal. krnr',~:~ng'.s' 5..x.st reit the trutn~ Ne .lu. st -~nall,/ got. t..i'r'eci of ioeking at.. ~ ~- C,::)~'~'~'a,:'.J' I'L w,~..~,.,.:-~ 11.'()0 and Steve wanted to go home and we just didn't ha',Je more 'Lime. P~nd a lot.. of the time, yen k'new~ it. ,was late. Emrn_tngs' Vo.. know what you ought to do is put one of thc)se little things have in the tax{ cab en yeu. r back doer. Co,,~'.s.,d' %ut Pau.]. i/'~ p'r'epa'rs, tion fo~ ~-hat~ T vhink we need a ~isti. ng , ~ , .... ~ , ~ ~,~ ..~ , ...~ of the 5. ss~ex; t. hat. were rai. sed and how we directed you. to respond t..o t, hose 't' h{ 'FIR yOU. Cd: C~T~' { 1 y ' ''e :'OU. iO av:) J~8 .......' ' a n.~ ~ eveY'y de~at..e~ e'.u~'~y.~, item ,,,, ~ ' ,h ~. u. d -,- ~ {r~ -.. ~ eery. L~e~~ ~rp not slate () !1 .J. ~'.Jl i ]'l k ~.,~1(~ <:~ ]..v bJe'f- e co T'!SeJqSIlS 0 n [l]OSt- v NaS c;orisef'lSUC¢ bLLt. kJe had a pre-t:.%y good majority c)n every issue but you sJ'~ou].d kneL,.J why y'ou. were c:,n one side er the other because they'!A be a s k i n {~. Krau. ss: One '~'eason you may ~.,~ant. to have a final crack at. 'the plan is we've been rewri't.i, ng a}A the Lext and completing sections that ye'd. haveN't seen. 8asica].l'/ t. hey~re consistent with v~hat you did review in draft form bL..'.t you. hawo'-n'!.t, reviewed the final, language~ As Brian had a concern for how u.~orded. _ the business frin~ ~,,~. .... oe"~r'~,~.,, , . v~..,,~ ~.~,. may ~a,~'lt er-~ .... clari{y what those thil-~gs. want Krsu:vss' That.'s t4hy ! Lhought a follow-up meeting might be. P..S.t. 7 1 j '~,, ._ ~ bJe]l a'L this meetir, g ~ ..{~-'~. the eptir~ +-ext,. ~ . ~. ~c,r~4 ng.~ ~ to ~he ','evi ~sw~-xe, or s.Y e we ~o(3, ',< l 119 a~' ....... 'J--hx~ Nap L'}e,~c~:LL~'~".~,~ ~,. b,~lqOb~ .~1 i J<e ~.iv k i 1-I fc, r .L': f'lSlSaT'tce p,,~;~r, L.~c..~ to k. ear apa"rt, t. he b~hoi, e pl..an. Nl_lsori: Yep. That w.i!], be his chance,, .. 4, '-> .... enL. rea._ y ~. lan. se par ,hey see t. he n'on"r-a(, ;;,ut what .'.4e pre°-~ '- qi is 'he d u t. ~ maF). 7[n terms 9f the copy. Bz. tz].]' E'~tJ.t. RivkJ. n is going to want to discu, ss the entire document. 3.::. may have a point the',''',~ He won''~ ha,/e enough ,~irne to revze mean we're not ge~ng.., te ~¢-,e"...e if~ be you until 2_ b~eeks before Conrad' ~';nd so what are toe g,-4'ng to tei I people. ~'~,,'~, ............ ,!2~o~/ who t4ants tlc) ' '~"J.l and get a copy. For a rev]ioN iL can come to ~he C~ILy h'lrauss' i.,,Je COLt].d g{'v'e loaner c,c:pi~'~-¢-' {s v.lhat ~.;e So ,'ou',ily · , ~ .~.~., ~ ~.'.~c, ~. . . ' ".','"- , .... has 't',', be ', n the PL.tbI ic notice ...... ,~re ~_o be a oe-~ tn~te comment about the o'rd~nanoe i l(ra~L.-~..'-~!;s!.:~ I will t.r? s. nd arrange for t'ne schooi. T,'nat mat change ~-,..n' e c,.4ates; ::.;,:. :,~r~,:'.:~ ; .... h u..!.s .[ ] t r '/ ~ T ~ '~ Y too hey should be the~e~ Ahrens t.,J~,~:~'K ..... ~u ttne,. ,.hanhasse'n [)inner Theatre? Ixr4'~u'.3s' 'rh.~y don~t h.~'~v~, enoug!~ p~rking ~ , .~ .... ~ -'2' i ,d . E~mrr. incjs' Do t,~e need a!l 'this~ does she have to tape all this Paul o'n 'the r e C.: 0 r 'J ? Con'rad" ~',o -,Far 'J.t~8 been okay:. you LJ!'[Tlk So© ~- - r'-.n T .just +'~,lJCh v~-rv briefly on ~-...Y S t I. ff:~; ,.~. o. .... ...... '.~ , - - - - ,, - ...... I'~,. T have 'Lo be hom~ by 9"30 - - T C) Ct d 't c:, C h a~ k a o.. e n t u s a c o p y c) < a g u i d e p i a n a rn e n dm e nt ,.r:CiLJS~ ~. re~:F) . '1] e _ ~ ..... upda'L.e th,?t tl~ey had. This is part of the obligation t. hat ~,¢e have to II ...... yste, s; Cat. emen~ C a~ a is expressing the ~:' we s. re. Tha'k the Systems staternent numbers~ regional rnode~ numbers fox Chs.',.ssl{a sJ. gnJ. fic:a, nti'>' undexestimate ~.,.~hat~s on the gxound t..oda .. (-o -,,', t The .~u. de of dif'ference between aocomm,:)dat~ gro~,.Jth Ln their _.~m~ ..... n_ty~ magni'~ -. - " . ~ r-,erence .... ~ i~ s the u.s and them J~ they have a Zowex rnagn~cud~ o'F di'~ :same concern. ];~1 ffly x~,~nnr, ee, .....~,.._, .... to them~ ~,.r sa~d ~,.,e... agr,-~. ~:.,~ and. we have similar._ ,::c)nc:erns ~, t, Je are looking -fc,~~ ~eca. use'- , e~.~?. ...... ra~..'sed '~'he~. C:haska seb~age ~ ~ ~. ~ -~ ~ ~,- ...... . ..... x~,,-.~ ..... ~'~ ~_~ a party t.o reso].u.t.kon and stud.~.es a'r-e undertaken with that. b~e~ve ta].ked to Shirley aoo.Jt t. his in t. he past and their sta"Ff and i teld Shirley we were geing t.o , ' bo NT'i~ess yON have comment .tn that. t.,.,~c~)-' a~d she u.l'~oerstood 'khat ~r ~'[¢;'t going to ~oe that a.~ong ~he ' . ,:'~onvey to f/-~ei'r- boaro 8as;taLly ~,~hat I ind'~ .... ~ ' park and ri(::J~ -[:aci~_ties and wou~d continue to do tha%. I dicJ raise some concerns though. ~.~i+'h,.. +'he,~ level c,{, ,~ ®~,INha~'iZe~ ~hat~. Fred~ in werki, ng 5,~ut hwe:et...~. _ Het:.'r o pu'k,. ~nP~o t'ranspo'~"~' ate ion, .. trip rna nrac'ernene.. ..~;~ _. ,, ,..~ s~'ra~-eoies.~ .~..~ . Those are re'fy complex issues that deal with some community perceptions. ComrnLJ. ni. ty vaJ. t~es. Oeve.topment '.Talues. Equity issues. One of the r~,,-r.q'~mr=,rcls~tir',n?: ~4as ~.,,:~. charge for parking or that you make Sew~].c,o~re ps.y fo'r~ '>,ou knew.~?~'qrnnn<q,... ....... , ....... WO~d have paid ...~ ®o many dollars, becaLtse they~v Nan~' to bt,{ id. .... parking j. nsk. ead, ...... of park and ~-ide c,r ride sharinc~, .... bJet 'I~. +',,.nat i'i'l ,?, '),"' [11:' ({} .~:3. 'v' ,:3 ] .'~_ ,',, '].,. ~,-~ ,::3 y '''~. ., {, ].. i. fl] i -k. ..... i r,, j x-~:~ '13 r ~:~ f ~ il. r-.. O. N T, k4, 5 .8. N d .~ e . t.J~d~.. ......... i'~',, .... *'~.,~:x ...... pa>su, and k~ou~e.,. ' continue to do so but the proper context for that: to be e v ;/_: ]. ,... ¢.:; t: e d is not:. in a recomn~,endat';on attac:hed to a tra'nsit re. po~,"t ~.n rny ,.?[.-.:~b ...... T,: .... .-..k,.-, set u.p a .jo{n-k community effor'~ nas n praJ. r je/Chanhassen s.t the vexy least working wi'BF', Carver County~ Hennepin Cou. ni:.'>,. W,:-)rl'{;i.T'~:~ ~,.~[th RTS. Norkkng ~ith HnDot. Norking ~,~ith the business c. omrnu'n~t.y ~:o ,~pp'roac:h this because this is something that ~i!l have a g¥'eat :s~-¢~..: ,. o. irnpa,r:;t o;~ e'v'erybodv, . A,--,H, ,,.. we've, convey~d.~ th.8. t fac r4,?t:.'r-o '?h,:,t:. v~e'd be ~i. lli.'ng to participate in such a group if it oarne off .~u,::J u~.::~,:;:] ~_)n(::ou. ra~e it doing that~ b]e .just didn't b~ant a action c:orn; nS,. ou.t ,c,-F, the c~..,,f ~,u,¢~st~..,,~,., ,_~ ~.,~'tud'~, , in that regard. . They'd-e, vaiicl ......... ~. .[....~o-r-~t~ ~.t,~l,~ ~.z~ .jLJ. ........ 11ob ..... Conrad' A lo'k of' response after !i:00:, Any comrnents? i iiked the staff r e p o r 't:. T h e i e'l:., t e'T' S i r~ i t. Z t ~ S f U. n t o s e e. A n y t h i n S e i s e ? I t h i n k o n e issue that. Tim bY'ought LIp and that~s:~ it's real valid and I think we need agenda a'r~d shoot 3 172 hours here but reviewing once a month Paul ! think~ to revie~.,.~ the ~.,,ork~ the tasks outst, andin~. I think i't~s just appropriate~ .lust to s:ee where we are and provide p'r'iority. Tim~s issue is valid and ~e wa~'i'k to make sure you're working on the right stuff based on eu.r minds so }'ok~ ca'n snrt i'( in ,'ith all the et.h~ stuff you have to de 8stz.!_i' ,Are any of our pro.loots cut for the cutting block given the Cit>.'~s {o'rec:as't':.e:d short, fa.l], in revenues? Krau. ss: The staff car that we never got. i told Dop, he col.~Id have ba,:r-k. Fio~ exce[:'~t to the ext. ent that Ne~ve~ lire I tou. ched on earlier Nerve tried te fund storm Hater management~ wetland ell'errs out of sene'r'ai fund r.:2venues. Ne were not able to do eha~-.~ ,. ,. last year inasmuch o.~'.~ at the ?)'r'esent ~._ime fhat~ fund i®~ ~350~000.00 i'n the hole. ...T~. .~ unlikel'..,. ,. w.~}.']..]. ~' ~b].e k.o do i-k next year too. 8ut that's the only new program o s:eries of programs that ;,Jo had anticipated. [Xrh,xrt: itr, hir'~k 't:.hat's c) ne of the res. so~s to keep moving or: 't, his c-.crop pla. n 't'f',i'~,{~ .............. is that the city is o~affecl L-,k,'-' '~C,~. hand~.,.e a certain ...1eve~;~ of deve.t~::prn.::>'~t. That brings in a ILet of money. !<'~'au{{:r::;: 'Fhat's a real valid point. ~.g.e're go.{.n8 to get this clip in there before we get our plan approved and i'k ~s go{n~j to create a let e{ hardship. It is now already. We don't knot4 hou,~ mu.c:h of ar: impac:t it's go.~_ng ~c the economy and ho~ ,nucn ,2,:) ~,-i r a d: A/] y t h i n g e 1 s e ? Eatz].i moved, Ellson seconded to ad3ourn the meetin9~ All voted in favor and the motion carried. The meetin~ ~as ad3ourned at !1:05 p.m.. ?,ui;:rr, i%tec] h':.>' P.~;.~! Krau. ss [::~ ! a n n i n g D i r e ¢: f... o r Prepared by Na'r~n Opheirn