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PRC 2016 07 26 CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING JULY 26, 2016 Chairman Kelly called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT: Cole Kelly, Steve Scharfenberg, Brent Carron, Luke Thunberg, Jim Boettcher, Rick Echternacht, and Jennifer Hougham MEMBERS ABSENT: Lauren Dale STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director; Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Superintendent; and Paul Oehme, City Engineer/Public Works Director PUBLIC PRESENT: Johnnie Meyering 1050 Homestead Lane Todd Neils 990 Saddlebrook Curve Tim Bloudek 1171 Homestead Lane Erik Bloudek 8796 North Bay Drive Jill Perkins 1051 Homestead Lane APPROVAL OF AGENDA: The agenda was approved as presented. PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: Kelly: Moving right along we do have a public announcement tonight. Todd you want to take the public announcement? Hoffman: Sure will. Just want to let people know that Chanhassen will be participating in nd National Night Out on Tuesday, August 2. The Chanhassen Fire Department Carver County Sheriff’s Office along with City officials and staff will be visiting block parties from 6:00 until 9:00 p.m. that evening. National Night is the ideal event for gathering neighbors. This program is meant to be a neighborhood party. It also ties in public safety by reminding residents how they can help to maintain safe neighborhoods. Studies show that neighbors who know each other are more likely to get out, to look out for each other consequently creating safer environments to live in and raise families. This night also gives city officials and law enforcement a chance to get out and talk with citizens. I’d like to invite residents to set aside this night to spend time with your neighbors and neighborhoods can still register for National Night Out by calling Chelsea Petersen at 227-1118. I think we’re up to 45 or 50 neighborhoods gathering that evening and as commissioners if you’re interested in attending and riding along with either the Chan Fire, law enforcement, City Council member, just let us know and we’ll hook you up with one of those Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 ride alongs. You typically go to about 2 or 3 National Night Out parties. Talk with the residents there. Hear their comments, issues and concerns and so if you’re interested in that just let us know. Kelly: Thank you Todd. VISITOR PRESENTATION: Kelly: I see we have a number of visitors tonight. However we do have for Todd I know we’ve got the ballfields coming up under new business and then I understand we have a lot of people here for the Foxwood Preserve, is that correct? Hoffman: Yep. If there’s anybody here for any other item that’s not on the agenda and you want to speak to the commission now would be that time. Kelly: Anybody need to speak right now. Hoffman: Yep, otherwise they’ll have opportunity during their item. Kelly: Right if you don’t have an item listed then please come up now. Otherwise we’ll move onto the Minutes. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Kelly: Any changes to the Minutes? Oh let’s see I just have a few minor changes. Page 12 under the first and only Kelly. Last sentence should actually be two sentences with a comma after to be in charge of it comma is the way I see it. And then there should be as people disagree with me they’d like to. If they’d like to period. And then the next line should start with a capital B, But. And the only other change I have is on page 14. And that would be of the fourth Kelly down. Two weeks ago I said time flies. I didn’t say time goes. That needs to be changed. Other than that anybody else have any changes? Okay. Somebody want to make a motion? Carron: I make a motion to approve the Minutes. Kelly: We have someone who made a motion to approve the Minutes with the changes made would that be? Carron: Oh with the changes made, yes. As you stated. Kelly: Thank you. We have a motion to accept the Minutes with the changes made. Is there a second? Thunberg: Second. 2 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 Carron moved, Thunberg seconded to approve the verbatim Minutes of the Park and Recreation Commission meeting dated June 28, 2016 as amended by Chairman Kelly on pages 12 and 14; and approve the summary Minutes of the Park and Recreation Commission meeting dated June 28, 2016 as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 7 to 0. PAVEMENT MANAGEMENT PROGRAM OVERVIEW; PAUL OEHME, CITY ENGINEER/PUBLIC WORKS DIRECTOR. Kelly: Paul is getting to be a regular here. He’s going to talk to us about the pavement for the trail management system. Oehme: Yep, good evening commission members. Nice to be with you again. So tonight I’d like to update you on the pavement management system that the City has and then also talk about our future plans for trail maintenance as well. So right now the city has a little over 90 miles of trails, bituminous trails within the city and annually we survey about a third of those trails along with about a third of the parking lots and about a third of the streets within the community and that survey is basically just a evaluation. A surface evaluation. It doesn’t do a structural evaluation. Just looks at you know how many cracks we have out there or the stresses and things like that and then we look at that information and put it into a pavement management system that we have. It’s through…and we base our system on what the Three Rivers Park District has done. We take a lot of their input and utilize some of their knowledge into our management system so this is showing you basically a typical degradation term for asphalt pavement. Typically for asphalt trails or roads you’re going to get about maybe 20 years of life out of a pavement system without any preservation applied to it so if you apply preservation, say cracking or some sort of surface treatment preservation you’ll extend the life out of the pavement and thereby you’re saving dollars down the road because it’s more cost effective to preserve pavement. Try to extend the life than to build new pavement section and then reconstruct it in say 20-25 years so the goal of our program is to extend the life of the pavement system. Try to get at least 30 years out of the pavement and each of these areas, lines we’re looking at different treatments for preservation. We’re looking at surface treatments and just to try to keep the pavement from raveling. Minor rehab areas where we’re maybe adding an overlay and then once the pavement gets down to you know under a 4 which is in kind of in the poor quality range then we’re looking at and talking about maybe a reconstruction at that point in time. So this is a shot of our GIS system showing what our pavement condition is currently. The blue is trails that are in relatively good condition. You’re probably going to see some cracks out there. Some maybe minor alligatoring and those type of things. Some raveling but overall structurally the pavement should be in pretty good condition. When you get down to the green and yellow you’re going to see a little bit more cracking. Raveling of the pavement surface. Maybe some dips and bird baths. Those type of things but overall the pavement structure is pretty good. When we get down to the yellows and the reds, those areas, those are getting pretty poor. Probably some of the older pavements within our community and those are the areas that we’re probably going to need to 3 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 look at hard on the future for reconstruction or replacement. Just wanted to point out to you that right now we are working on a couple trail segments right now under the Highway 5 project. Maybe you know the trail segment from Great Plains Boulevard over to Highway 101. That’s going to be replaced with the Highway 5 project and just some other trail improvements associated with that project and with Carver County we are looking at replacing the segment of trail from Powers Boulevard over to Market Boulevard maybe this year. Maybe next year. So that project’s in the works. We have, we are working on some parking lots and some trails in the th Lake Susan area this year and then also 78 Street trail is also being improved this year as well. This is a GIS exhibit showing all the parking lots that we have here in the community. Primarily in our park in many of these areas. These trails are, or these parks are in fairly good condition. We’ve been sealcoating a couple of these here and there. We’re going to be ramping up that sealcoat project over the years. Over the next couple years to, let’s see Kings Park or. The park up in, up off of. Hoffman: Roundhouse Park. Oehme: Roundhouse Park, thank you Todd. Roundhouse Park, that parking lot is scheduled for improvements after the pickleball courts are installed and some other amenities are going on in there as well so that parking lot’s planned. Like I said Lake Susan Park, we already put that as a green area. That parking lot’s being improved this year as well along with some trails. So overall our parking lot network is in fairly good condition. We’re right about the 70-71 pavement condition index which is in decent condition. Likewise our trail system is in okay shape right now. But in order to keep that level of condition we need to have some pavement management and keep up with maintenance over the years. So what causes trail failure? Basically there’s 3 areas. Environment. Environmental. Traffic and construction considerations. Environmental we’re talking about UV rays where the pavement will oxidize and actually become brittle and have a tendency to break and become structurally deficient. Water is always a big concern for pavements. When water gets under the pavement system it can loosen or it can weaken the pavement structure. And then also when it gets through the thermal cycles you’re going to get some cracking and some movement of the pavement and that puts lots of stresses on the pavement as well. Vegetation also can turn especially from root intrusion and those type of things. Traffic. You know we’re always, there’s some areas in town where the trails we have to have emergency vehicles that run down it occasionally or utility vehicles for getting into lift stations. Maintenance equipment. You know while we’re plowing our trails in the springtime where the pavement’s a little bit weaker so typically there might be some edge cracking associated with those type of activities. And then also improper or construction issues. This is where you know quality, assurance quality control take into consideration where we want to make sure that the, when we put a new trail in that the specs are correct and that they’re built correct and the submittals that we receive from the contractor are correct and built with quality materials. This is one of the first things we’re going to see with a new pavement is there’s crack in the thermal cracking is typically one of the first things that you’re going to see but longitudinal cracks can also occur if the pavement, if there’s settlement under the base or the shoulder settled or moved due to thermal conditions so those are more or 4 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 less the longitudinal cracks. The transverse cracks that are like I mentioned thermal cracks. You’re going to see that. No matter what, how you build a pavement you’re always going to see those thermal cracks occur over time. Edge cracking you’re going to see that again with maybe vehicles running over it or if the shoulder is a little weaker. And then cracking from vegetation as well. So one of the goals that the City has is to ramp up our cracking activities. The pavement network is such where I think this is what we’re going to see a lot of bang for the buck if we put a little more effort and more resources in the cracking some of the, all the networks. One of our goals is to over the next 5 years to at least try to get to all the trails in the city and at least go through and crack them so. Typically we’d like to see maybe a router. Route them about half inch wide and a slight band over the top. Any wider than that we’re going to have some maintenance issues and some you know tripping hazards potentially especially for in line skating but for the money this is one of the best pavement preservation techniques that are out there to try to save the pavement because it doesn’t allow the water to get into the sub-surface pavement. Trails are again impacted by root intrusions. We put several hundred feet of this root barrier in when the trail at Rice Marsh was reconstruction, what was it a year ago? Two years ago? This helps with roots not getting in under the pavement and breaking up the pavement. Or heaving the pavement. Surface degradation. I touched on the oxidation that happens over time because of UV light. This is just kind of a shot of how rough pavement can get when surfaces aren’t treated or covered, protected from UV light. The smaller particles of, in the asphalt can dislodge and then loosen up some of the bigger aggregate comes very rough condition over time. So to prevent that there’s several techniques that we are looking at implementing. One is a Fog Seal or Master sealer or some other proprietary products out there that we can use. This is a th picture of the product that we used on 78 Street. It’s, I think it’s a Master Seal from Allied Blacktop. It’s a little bit higher quality than the Fog Seal. There’s some sand and some other polymers in there that give it a little more strength. Little more longevity than just a typical Fog Seal but we’re looking at maybe a 4 to 5 year life expectancy of that but it’s again it’s to protect the pavement surface from UV’s. Oxidation and try to keep that pavement together. It’s not really a structural improvement as well but it’s, what’s nice about it, it goes down really quick. Evenly and people can get on it after just a couple hours of curing time. This says 24 hours but typically you can get on there after about 3 or 4 hours. One other product that we’re looking at, we haven’t implemented yet is looking at like a slurry seal. A micro seal. A lot of communities in the metro area have gone to this product. It’s a great product for UV protection. It gives a little structural strength. It’s very barrier for water intrusions as well. It lasts a little longer than Fog Seal. 8 to 10 years but it does cost significantly more than a Fog Seal so this is a product that we’re looking at and maybe in some areas that would help extend the longevity of certain trails. Overlays, we’ve used bituminous overlays on trails in the past. This is when the pavement becomes raveled or has some, is no longer being able to, no other product can be used just like a Fog Seal. It has to have a little bit more, better ride quality so this is a technique that we can use in certain situations. Grades have to work out. Pavement has to be structurally sound to typically use an overlay but it’s kind of a, it is a cost effective approach versus a total reconstruction. Lastly surface or trail reclamation. Reconstruction is kind of the last thing after, if the trail needs a complete redo, the structural strength of the pavement is gone, life is pretty much used up on that pavement. That’s where we’re looking at a complete reconstruction or 5 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 reclamation of it. This is, we’ve done several trails like this in the last couple years. Rice Marsh trail comes to mind is the last one that we did last year. It was a little over a mile’s worth of trail. You’re going to typically get about 20 years life expectancy out of this and it does, you’re basically getting new trail. Obviously it’s the most costly approach but you’re going to get the most life out of this technique as well so. That’s basically my update on where we’re at with our pavement management system. Kind of where we’re going. If there’s any questions that you may have I’d be more than willing to try to answer them. Kelly: Paul, a great detailed report. Any questions up here for Paul at this time? Scharfenberg: Paul how, I know that you guys do regular assessments with respect to the street management and that with respect to the trail system and that. How often is that updated then? Oehme: So every time we’re out with the street surveys, we’re also doing about a third of the trail system as well so we’re updating the trails just as much as we’re updating the pavement condition for the street system as well so yep. Scharfenberg: Okay. Hoffman: One third is surveyed every year. Every 3 years you’ve got the whole system surveyed. Carron: So Paul, Powers Boulevard just for example in the 40 to 60 range and then it’s got a 10 to 40 at the north end there by Highway 5. How would that get put into the program and how does that work? Like how many years? Now that it’s at that point are we looking 2 years to fix it or? Oehme: Yeah we’re looking at maybe more in the 5 year timeframe. There’s some segments out here we might want to look at doing a little earlier. Powers Boulevard is probably our best funding source, best opportunity to fund that is through our MSA. Our Municipal State Aid account. That would be eligible for replacement using those funds. It’s going to be an expensive project to do so right now to, in order to fund that program I don’t think we have enough resources with just our general fund so I think we’re going to have to tap in some other resources to complete those segments down the road. Carron: So is it my understanding that once these kind of get to that point where you decide, if you’re going to go preservation or you just kind of let it go or budget basically but where’s the line of where, do we preserve it or do we just kind of let it go until it gets to need a full reconstruct? Oehme: Great question. So I mean for this area particularly, I mean our typical cutoff for a street or a trail reconstruction is right around 40 pavement index so right there we’re kind of looking at does it make sense to do an overlay. Do we just want to wait and do a reconstruction? 6 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 I think in the Powers Boulevard instance, especially on the east side of the roadway there, the cracks are wide enough and the surface is deteriorated enough where I think it’s going to make sense now to just let it go for a couple more years and do a reconstruction in that area. And that gives us some opportunity to find some funding for replacement of that trail in the near future. Carron: Thanks. Scharfenberg: You know there are sections of that trail, having ridden on it, that are worst than others. Especially on the south end by Lyman. From Lyman up to Lake Susan that’s bad I know but then the further north you get it’s not as bad. Oehme: Okay, yeah there’s kind of pockets in there that are worst than others and you know it might be an opportunity for us to just go in there and patch some of those areas. The worst areas until we’ve got enough funds to replace those trails in the future but that’s something we’ll be looking at here in the next couple years. Hoffman: And that area it’s most likely that subsurface soils in that wetland area where they pushed that road out and pushed that trail bench out. We have some poor soils there on that south end. Scharfenberg: Yeah. Oehme: So that area I think is a good opportunity to maybe do a reclamation out there that will give us a little more bituminous or a little more base material to work with and to get a little more structural strength in that area when we do the project. Kelly: Other questions for Paul? Thank you Paul. Oehme: Thank you. Hoffman: Chair Kelly could I just close with a thank you to Paul first of all and then just a little bit, a couple three bullet points of explanation. So in a city or a business of our size the reason we have pavement management with engineering is just because of the efficiency of scale and so we’re a small organization. A small business. Putting all pavement under one umbrella, the engineering umbrella for management just makes sense so that’s why it’s there. And then as a commission we really look to you to help educate the citizenry about this pavement management program so we get this question a lot about why our trails, you know why is the Powers Boulevard trail rougher than others? How does this system work? When are trails overlaid? Those type of things so we just ask that you help educate our citizens about that. Thank you. Kelly: Thank you Todd. 7 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF FOX WOODS PRESERVE MASTER PLAN; WSB AND ASSOCIATES. Kelly: And Todd I see we’ve got a proposed motion to go to the City Council about the approval of the Fox Woods Preserve master plan. Would you like to speak to that please? Hoffman: I will thank you. Chair Kelly and members of the commission, this evening we have Jeff Deitner with us with WSB and Associates and then also some neighbors. We did do a neighborhood mailing to notify people of what’s going on. I’ll provide a little bit of history and then we’ll allow Jeff to come up and give a presentation about how we arrived at this plan. What the items are studied in the Fox Woods Preserve and we’ll talk about that. And then we want to allow the residents a chance to get up and express their viewpoints and their opinions about the plans and any other existing conditions in this area. And so the proposed motion this evening is that the Park and Recreation Commission recommends that the City Council approves the Fox Woods Preserve Master Plan as drawn by WSB and Associated dated June 21, 2016. Background, in January of 2016 the City retained WSB and Associates to provide professional landscape architect services related to the master planning of the Fox Woods Preserve. I think it’s important to take a look at the history of how the preserve was set aside. In 1997 there was a referendum for open space and trails. Special election. As a part of that $1,755,000 was set aside to purchase highly desirable open space parcels before land prices got out of reach and really at that time there was just, there was a big development push there like there continues today again and people just felt that we should set something aside. But for that citizenry voting yes this land would not have been purchased and likely what you would see today, it would either have been purchased by the southern property owner and joined with that property or it would be houses being developed as a part of the Foxwood development today so the fact that it’s set aside. It’s been there since 1997. The neighbors have been utilizing it. The City’s allowed people to utilize the property for the trails that are currently there and they walk in the neighboring property as well but now that we have our first public access it’s time to go ahead and take a look at what a long term plan is for the Fox Woods Preserve as far as what will it act like. What will it look like? How will the City maintain it and how will the neighbors have access to it? That’s really the key to this property. It’s very beautiful. We have been in there managing buckthorn and other invasive species since we’ve acquired the property. And also if you take a look at that line, this was the original acquisition on the north that the City purchased and then the north part, this was added as a part of the 212 project and so that was excess right- of-way from MnDOT and that property was added to expand the Preserve and make it even nicer piece of natural resource preservation for the area. Not only if you live in the area but if you’re able to drive here in the future I think it will be a destination for a variety of residents, especially in our southern region of Chanhassen to visit the property so we’re excited as the City and to provide open access to the community for the first time and I’d like to invite Jeff up to go through his presentation. Kelly: Thank you Todd. 8 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 Jeff Deitner: Good evening commissioners. As Todd mentioned I’m Jeff Deitner with WSB and Associates and we’ve been working closely with Todd and other staff members at WSB to prepare our preliminary master plan which I’ll run through with you tonight. First I’ll just jump into the process that we’ve taken. Todd touched on it briefly but I’ll go through that. And then also get into more details of the master plan and kind of take you from the outside and the surrounding context and then into the actual Fox Woods Preserve. Back in mid-January we had the opportunity to walk the site on a cold sunny winter day and really saw the true beauty of the Fox Woods Preserve. It was a great opportunity to see some of the view sheds that we could take advantage of and also experience a lot of the topography that’s out there that adds character to the site. After that site visit we took all of those opportunities and constraints that we found and brought those back and developed a few concepts for that. We shared those with Todd and staff and from there we are here tonight to present the preferred concept or preliminary master plan. You’ll see here just quick the process that we took. We started off with some quick, just some quick sketches that have been shared and then developed. A couple other concepts from there and after meeting with Todd we’ve come to the preliminary master plan which is what was mailed out to residents in the surrounding area. This has been broken up into 2 phases as of right now. The first phase being the primary section of the park that you can see that’s highlighted in green there in the woods along with the nature trails and then phase 2 or potential future development would be on the western property edge that would include potentially a segment of paved trails and then also possibly a section of nature trail. And then you’ll see here the phase 1 so it shows the main park entrances. The surrounding context of trails that would bring users into the site and then also the nature trail system within the park property. I will, from here I’d like to start from the outside and bring you in. The main focus is to get users from the adjacent site amenities. Bandimere Park and then also future development to the west and we would do that, if I can get the clicker to work here. If you can follow with me, the purple dashed line on the southern end of the site. Yeah is a great route to bring visitors in from both like Bandimere and future development to the west. Our preferred access is on the south side of that wetland there but we have also identified an alternate route depending on the availability of land and future development. These 2 main links would also provide great connection to the neighboring communities to the north and then also future connections to the west along Lyman Boulevard there. We would have 2 trailhead parking identified. One would be utilizing Bandimere Park on the east and then the second would be a future parking lot down on the southwest corner at potentially the future lift station there. From there we took a look at how the neighboring, the proposed neighborhood would work with this trail system. We’ve provided two park entrances. One Todd is pointing to right there on the north there that would allow users to enter the park there. And then we’ve also created a second opportunity that’s adjacent to some green space there as well. This loop would provide a great circulation for residents to expand outside of the park and also you know integrate the proposed development there. Moving further into the park we’ve identified 2 additional park entrances on the south side. These would create great opportunities for entrances. We could have signage there. Other identifications showing that you’re entering Fox Woods Preserve along with a great system of nature trails. This would, we’ve studied the topography and tried to utilize it to the best of our ability with doing minimal impact to native vegetation and the native environment there. We’ve also proposed 3 overlook 9 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 locations on the north side of the woods which would be the south side of the wetland there. When we were out there in the wintertime these views just screamed like you wanted to sit out there and enjoy nature. We saw a couple of birds. Some birds. Some hawks. It was a great experience. I included this section just to give you an idea of, or this slide just to give you an idea of what nature trails we’re talking about. We’re not talking about the paved trails. We’re really talking about keeping it, keeping it very limited to impact. On the left there are 2 images of nature trails under construction. Now this may, the trails may vary in width depending on the amount of traffic but as you can see on the right, that is an existing nature trail that is about a year and a half to 2 years old and here they chose not to have woodchips but the other option is to help prevent erosion and to have some woodchips there as well so there’s a couple of different options that the City can pursue to keep the impact very limited to the park space. And last we developed 2 options for the entrance signage or to give the identify to Fox Woods Preserve and again we really focused on natural elements. Option 1 is a large boulder that would be engraved with Fox Woods Preserve, City of Chanhassen. We’ve even proposed a fox as a symbol for the park but this boulder we designed it to be approximately 5 to 6 feet wide and 3 to 4 feet tall so it would be fairly significant in size but still allow visitors to know that they’re entering into the park. Option 2 is a little bit more developed. We’ve taken more of a little bit of a modern twist to it and used some gabion basket walls that could be utilized as a seat wall as well. Gabion baskets are small boulders that range in size that are introduced into a wire metal cage that hold up very well over time. These coming out of there would have some reclaimed timber posts that would hold the etched metal sign that you see there. At this time I would like to bring it back to our master plan here and open it up to any questions or comments that the commissioners might have. Kelly: Jeff I’ve got one question here. On phase 1 it says we have paved trail of 1,700 and the nature trail of course would be the 5,000, linear feet inside. Where would the paved trail be on phase 1? Jeff Deitner: The paved trail would be outside of the park. That would be the trail on the southern property boundary there. Kelly: Okay. And would that be necessary since we don’t have Foxwood development done yet? Would that be better to wait at that point and paved the trail at that time? Jeff Deitner: I don’t see it as being necessary for the development of the nature trails. Phase 1, the way that we looked at phase 1 is that those are the most important elements to the park. They don’t all have to be done at the same time. They could be completed 5, 10 years down the road but they are the more primary elements to the park. Kelly: Okay. Other questions for Jeff? Hougham: I have a question. For the trails just south, the proposed paved trail going south you said going to the parking lot, is that land that we currently have access to? 10 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 Hoffman: No that would be with future development concurrent with the future development of that property. Hougham: Okay. So we would. Hoffman: These trails, anything on, anything south of this property line would be with future development. This property is in for development so we have the ability to gain access to connection points. There are trail easements. We’ve taken an easement for this section of trail. This piece we do not have currently an easement for and so either one of these, either the south connection of 101 or the north connection of 101, these will take place in the future. Hougham: Okay. Carron: Jeff question. How do you decide or plan what trail should be bituminous or what trail should just remain woodchips and kind of more natural? Jeff Deitner: Certainly. Looking at the circulation surrounding the site it was important to have the paved trails there because you’re going to have more users on those trails. They’re going to hold up more. The intent with Fox Woods is to keep it quiet. To have the users be on foot and really respect the natural beauty of the property so we did not, we wanted to limit the impact and limit it to the nature trails. Carron: Would this concept here possibly lend to, check to see if I’m getting hot here. To have no bituminous and just keep it all nature? Hoffman: He’s in the asphalt business. That’s why he’s asking. Carron: You’re going against what my own belief is here but I just look at this and I think you know it’s a nature preserve and it might bode well just to have it all natural if that works. Hougham: Don’t we need the purple to connect to Bandimere for future development? Hoffman: Yeah I’d be happy to talk to that concept. And so really what we think we have going on here is 2 things. And so we have this perimeter trail that’s planned to go all the way around the perimeter of these properties to give people the opportunity. If you’re, say you’re on a bicycle or you’re in a stroller situation or you’ve got multiple folks. If you’ve got some wheel type devices where you just want to go around. You just want to go and you’re really not going to stop at the nature preserve, then you have that opportunity to do that loop on an asphalt trail condition. And then this is preserved all for nature in itself. That being said you don’t have to do that. You could allow that to be you know perhaps the sidewalk system so you could say well this is the hard surface trail. It’s going to be on the sidewalk and we’re going to take this out of here. But this is the current concept. These would be back yard type trails and so as you can see 11 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 this would be lotted off in the future and we have many of this kind of trail in our community. Longacres. They’re just all over. Lake Susan and so you have that kind of asphalt connecting trail which would go east/west and then this would all be naturally preserved in that condition. You could ride and you could stop, you know put your bike in an area and then you could walk if you wanted to so that’s the thought process. It doesn’t have to be that way. It’d be interesting to hear what the neighbors have to say but that’s what we’re proposing as an overall concept to allow for both exterior travel and then getting to the preserve itself and just taking a walk on those nature trails which will largely just be soil, leafed up and then some minor wood chipping. Kelly: So Todd would the idea for the nature trail to exclude bikes? Would we have signs up as such? Hoffman: That would be a policy decision that we would have to decide. Kelly: Okay. Scharfenberg: I’m looking at the master plan context map and then on the west side of Fox Woods Preserve off the marsh and that there’s 2 dotted. There’s a purple dashed line and then like a peach line. Are those, first of all what is the peach line with respect to the purple line? Jeff Deitner: Certainly. The paved line is a, or the purple line is a paved line. That can be a tongue twister there. The purple line is a paved line and paved trail and we’ve identified that as phase 2 so we’ve kind of faded that back so it wasn’t as bold to show that separation. So along the western edge there the paved trail in purple and then the lighter peach color line or the faded back red line would be a nature trail that would be a secondary option bringing users down closer to the wetland and giving them a different experience. Scharfenberg: Is it possible? I mean I thought that is a lot of wetland under there to even be able to use as a trail. Jeff Deitner: We would be far enough up from the wetland there. There’s a, the buffers range from 20 to 60 feet so we would just have to make sure that we are back from that line. Scharfenberg: Okay. Kelly: Any other questions for Jeff or Todd? Thunberg: Couple questions Todd. If a master plan gets passed there really is no set timeline right? Like this could be 5 years. 10 years. 20 years from how there could be parts of it that may not be done. 12 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 Hoffman: Correct, yep. Our initial goal is to develop concurrently with the Foxwood housing development. To get in there and at least establish those nature trails. Those touch down points so people can start utilizing the property. Thunberg: And then the second one. Back to the point of that southern proposed paved trail. Further south off the map on Pioneer Trail between Powers and Great Plains there’s no trail today. Is there anything in any plans, conversations of knowing when that would be a connector because without that I think this proposed paved trail is a really good connector to how you talked about people can make a loop. Hoffman: That’s a, Pioneer Trail is a county road and currently there is no scheduled CIP item, capital improvement program item either in the city or the county. It’s the only missing link. We’ve talked about this before between Bloomington and the west end of Chaska on Pioneer Trail where there’s not a section of trail primarily on the north end is where it’s always, the trail is there. There’s a wide shoulder. I think it will take an upgrade of Pioneer Trail to make that happen and so whenever Pioneer Trail is upgraded then the trail would go in. There’s lots of poor soils there. That is a current corridor that is being studied for sanitary. For a water line and sewer lines and even to do that, to put those in the ground you need to support them with pured footings and so the soils are very poor once you get off the road shoulder. When we did a feasibility study for it, just that one section was over a million dollars and so we don’t have that kind of cash to put into that section of trail at this time. Kelly: Jeff I don’t see any other questions, thank you. Jeff Deitner: Great, thank you very much. Kelly: At this time I’d like any residents who would like to come up and talk to the commission with thoughts, concerns, questions. Jill Perkins: I had some questions. Kelly: Yeah please come up here. What you do is you give us your name and address and then you can address us. Jill Perkins: Sure. Hi, my name is Jill Perkins and I live at 1051 Homestead Lane in Chanhassen so we’re in the neighborhood just south between Pioneer Trail and where this map kind of ends. Just yes, where he’s pointing the Fox Woods Preserve. We’re down there and I just have some basic questions. One is, is there plans for any lighting in this nature trail or along the paved trails? Hoffman: No. 13 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 Jill Perkins: No lighting, okay. And what about, I don’t know how Chan, we’re new to Chanhassen so I don’t know how Chanhassen does like bug control, mosquito control. Is there any mosquito control that’s done on or would be done on the preserve? Hoffman: Not by the City but Metropolitan Regional Mosquito Control District does some mosquito control. I don’t know if they’re doing it in this wetland or not but that’s a regional agency. Metro wide agency and they do some mosquito control in our community. We can check and find out if they’re currently doing that pond or not. Jill Perkins: Okay. Okay and then my other question was just along timelines which it sounds like we don’t really know so but yeah I would just say on the lighting. You know I do get concerned about safety in such a remote nature which is great and I’m so for this. My family and I would use this a lot for biking and walking and running so I’m all for it but I just want to bring that up as a question as to how are we going to be safe in our area so. That’s it. Kelly: Thank you Jill. Jill Perkins: Thank you. Scharfenberg: I’m assuming the trail head would be lit probably Todd right? Hoffman: Correct yep down at the, Bandimere has some lighting in it. Not a great deal of lighting but then the trail head down, which will also be incorporated. That trailhead in this location would be incorporated with a sanitary lift station which will service most of southern Chanhassen and so there’s a sewer lift station to go in here and then as a part of that municipal facility and acquisition we would build that, construct that trail head in there and lighting would be in that location. Most of our asphalt trails are not lit in our community and so we wouldn’t be looking to light this nature park with any type of lighting. Kelly: Any other visitors like to come up and comment? Please come on up to the. Johnnie Meyering: I have a question here. Kelly: Yeah you need to get to the microphone so we can hear. Hoffman: You can point to this. Kelly: We need your name and address please. Johnnie Meyering: Oh my name is Johnnie Meyering and I live on Homestead Lane. 1050. I know it’s for the future. 14 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 Hoffman: Let’s get it up here. Can we click to the doc cam Jerry? There you go. Now you can point to whatever you want to. Johnnie Meyering: Okay. So when you’re talking about this parking lot down here with this lift station down here, okay it depends on you know we’re not going to build this for a while, how big a parking lot are you thinking about doing in the near future? You know this is zoned for a commercial building and how big a parking lot and what’s the lighting going to be? You know for the housing area that’s going to be developed in there, how big a parking lot is that going to be? If a lot of people move to Chan and you don’t big area, this is going to be all new houses. Is there going to be lit up like a Christmas tree? Or do we have to have very much lights on it? Things to think about. And one other question is right here, is that with Foxwood development? What is going to get developed in that area? Or is it just set aside where the nursery is and that’s going to be another development? It doesn’t really say. Hoffman: I’ll talk about this. This lot would likely be 20 stalls or under and there would be some down box lighting. Typical parking, you know down box lighting. Johnnie Meyering: Okay. Hoffman: And then this, these 2 lots. One was involved in the development. That was this property here so they’re in on the subdivision and they sold a portion of their land for these back yard lots. And then since they’re involved in the subdivision we can gain access to this outlot for this trail. So this outlot is being taken as a public outlot so we can build that trail up to that point. This gentleman is not in on the subdivision and so we don’t have access to this easement at this time. This property is not going to, it’s not highly subdividable. You may be able to put 1 house in that, one additional house in that, on the property to the east and so that’s what’s currently going on with those 2 properties. Johnnie Meyering: Okay. And then I was just wondering about, if we put a 20 car stall here down in this future spot, for right now that’s down the line so everybody that wants to go to the nature preserve, and if you ever went to some, the parking lot is pretty limited so is anybody going to park over at the park and walk that far or are they going to use that housing area and park all on the street? So it’s, you know. I think everybody’s going to jump into that street. Go down the street. Park next to somebody’s, in front of their house and go to the nature preserve instead of walking way from over at the park. So it’s something to think about where you’re making a park, making a nature preserve but for when you’re making it you don’t have any parking for it close to it. None. It’s really far away and if you’re older it’s going to be, you’re not going to go to that nature preserve to see it. Maybe younger people will but there’s no parking over by the park. Something to think about. I would think that if you’re going to make a nice park, a nature preserve there that when you start it there should be a place where it’s closer to park. If you ever walked from over here and it’s busy, what happens if there’s a lot of activity over there and you want to go there and it’s full and you can’t go to the preserve. So it’s just something to think about. 15 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 Kelly: John that’s a good point, thank you and that’s something that we’re looking at the concept plan now. Johnnie Meyering: Okay. Kelly: And what we approve isn’t necessarily going to be what will be the final plan down the road. And until everything’s developed, so we’re looking at years down the road and there might be people other than us making some of those decisions at that point also but your point is well taken and we’ll take that under consideration. Thank you John. Johnnie Meyering: Thank you. Kelly: Anybody else like to get up and talk? Okay. Any other questions for Todd at this time? Actually Todd, at this point what we’re really looking at is phase 1 happening and I’m assuming staff. I mean not staff but people in the park and rec department would probably be blazing the nature trail? Hoffman: That’s correct. Much of this trail, I would say up to 50 percent of it is already in place. Some areas might be modified slightly and then the other 50 percent would be added and so we’re quite a ways down the line on having these trails already in place. We just need to be in a position to have a plan in place when the new neighbors move in that we have a plan that’s established so they understand what this park will be. What it will look like and we really didn’t want to do that in 1997. We wanted to wait until we had a development adjacent to the park property. Now you have public access. Mr. Meyering brings up a good point and we talked at length with the developer about that and we talked at length also about putting a parking lot. Really the situation there is if you take out 2 or 3 or 4 of these lots to put in a parking lot, then you’re tucking a parking lot back in on a cul-de-sac and when we do that in our park system it just does not work well and so we said we’re willing to accept some on street parking now to gain access to that to the people that want to drive there currently and then in the future allow for a much better parking lot down on Powers. There are people there. Mr. Erhart, the current property owner has an assemblence of at least of a parking lot there. He advertises to friends and neighbors that they can utilize that. Many people park there and access. It’s a short walk and in fact that future trail will just be a part of the experience to gain access into that nature preserve. You know nature preserves can be a variety of things. There’s not going to be established playgrounds or a building in this facility and so there’s going to be no other improvements other than the trails itself. And there’s always been this discussion back and forth who is this for. Is this for the broader community? Do we want to advertise this to the region? And the consensus has been no. Primarily this is for the neighborhood and the community of Chanhassen to have access to. Quite a few people can walk there. More can bike there. And then there are going to be some that want to drive there in the future because it is going to be a nice experience and so on down the line that trail head at Powers will be the most utilized spot but other people will park at Bandimere and gain access. The thing that we haven’t mentioned that there’s a very nice 16 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 underpass right at Bandimere Park and so you park at Bandimere. Head into the underpass and either one of those east/west trail connectors is going to be very close. Just about a quarter of a mile long at that particular location. Kelly: So Todd I’m assuming that until we get to phase 2 there’s really no reason to do the paved trail on phase 1? Hoffman: There is not. Kelly: Okay. So we’d hold off on that so the expenses for phase 1 are not going to be very high I would imagine. Hoffman: No. Some, probably some erosion control measures and some wood chipping which we gain access to primarily at no cost. The one exception to the asphalt will be that the 2 connections will be asphalted by the developer to gain access to the property line. Then they’ll take over from there in that dirt and woodchip formation. Kelly: Other questions for Todd? Hougham: I do have a question about the current usage of the trails. I think in previous meetings we’ve talked about the usage of horses on those trails. Do we have a date of when we would advise them no more horses? I mean do we kind of have an idea of that? Hoffman: Yeah that will most likely be sometime next year and so once development starts then we’ll move in and start doing our work. Once we start doing our work on the trails we’ll send a note to those folks that own horses in the area that they’ve had access to that property you know as a benefit to their neighborhood. Horses are not allowed in city parks. This one we’ve allowed them to continue to utilize that. In fact they’re the ones primarily who are clearing the trails in addition to some other neighbors that walk in the area so we’ll thank them for that and then just allow them to discontinue that use. They can, some of them do continue to ride on the neighboring property. On Mr. Erhart’s property and they’re just feeling squeezed. You know 20-30 years ago they rode all over southern Chanhassen so they’d like to try to continue as long as they can but they see the writing on the wall. Hougham: Thanks. Kelly: Thank you. Anybody want to put out a motion? Scharfenberg: I make a motion that the commission recommend that the City Council approve Fox Woods Preserve Master Plan as drawn by WSB and Associates dated June 21, 2016. Kelly: There’s a motion on the floor as stated. Is there a second? 17 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 Thunberg: Second. Kelly: It has been seconded. Scharfenberg moved, Thunberg seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommends that the City Council approves the Fox Woods Preserve Master Plan as drawn by WSB and Associated dated June 21, 2016. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 7 to 0. RECOMMEND ACCEPTANCE OF DONATION OF BALL FIELD DUG OUTS; LAKE SUSAN PARK. Kelly: Todd would you like to speak to us about that? Hoffman: I can briefly and then allow Mr. Neils to speak… Really just very happy, the Dugout Club and the athletic association continue to come back with this with very significant projects. This is one of the most significant in recent memory so it includes 2 dugouts at Lake Susan Park. The proposed motion for your consideration this evening is that the Park and Recreation Commission recommends that the City Council accept the donation of permanent Lake Susan Park home field dugouts from the Dugout Club and the Chanhassen Athletic Association with the conditions noted. I don’t need to go into the detail. You’ve probably read it all but this is, these are 2 permanent structures constructed by primarily Hansen Hometech who is a local company that the City has a long history. They’ve worked on other projects. Most recently the Lake Ann concession stand. They remodeled that to allow that to be a full blown concession stand with water. The improvements there. Enclosure and so we know they do good work. We know they’re community minded. Really appreciate that Mr. Neils has reached out to them again and allowed them to be a part of this project. I know they’re going to be working hard to gain access to primarily donated product and labor and then anything that they cannot realize as donated they’ll be coming back to you later…so this is going to be exciting for the baseball communities that utilize Lake Susan Park and it’s a nice looking structure as you can see from the picture. …had to ask one question that if the storage could be expanded slightly and we have no problem with that. That would be a minor modification to the plan set and we would be fine with that and we’re excited to start working with the group so with that we’ll allow Mr. Neils to make any comments that he’d like and… Kelly: Thank you Todd. Todd Neils: Good evening. Todd Neils, 990 Saddlebrook Curve. I am effectively here just to answer any questions about the plans that you have before you for the permanent structure that we propose at Lake Susan Park. I will, would like to comment that there is a bit of a fluid nature to it with the postponement or cancellation of the City Council meeting in early August. Obviously that’s going to effect the time line generally. As you can see on the time line the anticipated, we anticipated pouring concrete in June. Or July rather with the possible placement 18 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 of block starting in August but obviously that will all get pushed back until we get approval or commentary from the City Council. Kelly: Questions for Todd. Carron: Todd is that, those windows is it just open? Open air. Todd Neils: Yes. Carron: Okay. Looks pretty nice. That’s all I got. Scharfenberg: Will both dugouts have the storage as part of it or just one of them? Todd Neils: Both will have. You know right now the, there are 2 associations that utilize that park in particular. We anticipate that the Minnetonka Baseball Association will also have access or will utilize one of the storage facilities or storage areas while we’ll, the CAA and Dugout Club will utilize the other. Kelly: Mr. Todd Hoffman I assume that the City is happy with the work that Hansen Hometech has done for us before. Hoffman: We are. Kelly: Thank you. Other questions? Hoffman: I have one. That’s pretty nice of you. Are you going to get them to kick in? Minnetonka. Todd Neils: We have made that request. Hoffman: Pretty nice of you. Todd Neils: They want to have the full breadth of the cost and then they will balance that against their utilization of the park before they make a determination as to whether they’re going to, or how much they’re going to. Hoffman: Contribute. Todd Neils: Contribute. Hoffman: Great. 19 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 Scharfenberg: And these will be built I believe behind that small fence that sits in front, is that right? Todd Neils: Yeah the intent actually, they will actually be built behind the current benches that are there. So conceptually this is supposed to provide the benching in the event that there is nice weather and the dugout for inclement weather so that’s the covered portion of the dugout itself. So we will, we’ll keep the current benching there. It’s concreted in. It’s in good shape still. We may need some additional ag lime to bring up the base a little bit but for the most part the intent is to have that benching remain and then just build the structure behind. Directly behind. Kelly: Other questions or a motion. Hougham: I proposed a motion for the Park and Recreation Commission to recommend to the City Council accept the donation of permanent Lake Susan Park ball field dugouts from the Dugout Club and Chanhassen Athletic Association with the conditions noted. Kelly: There is a motion proposed as stated. Is there a second? Thunberg: Second. Kelly: And it’s seconded. Hougham moved, Thunberg seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommends that the City Council accept the donation of permanent Lake Susan Park ball field dugouts from the Dugout Club and Chanhassen Athletic Association with the following conditions: 1. Construction activities do not interrupt scheduled activities at the ball field. 2. Relocation of the storage access doors to the exterior of the buildings. 3. Incorporation of no maintenance materials: a. Concrete block b. Cement siding c. 2’x4’ pressure treated lumber d. 2 steel exterior doors at each dugout 4. All work be completed by September 30, 2016. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 7 to 0. Carron: Thanks Todd. 20 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 Kelly: Thank you Todd. Todd Neils: Thank you. CONSIDER RECOMMENDATION TO CITY COUNCIL, 2017-2021 PARK AND TRAIL ACQUISITION AND DEVELOPMENT CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM (CIP). Kelly: Mr. Todd Hoffman we are now getting into the CIP program for the park and trail capital development for 2017 to 2021. Would you like to begin the discussion. Hoffman: Be glad to. Thank you Chair Kelly and members of the commission. I’m going to focus you in on just really 3 paragraphs but prior to doing that, $1.8 million, $1.85 million, that’s about what we have in the fund. There’s a lot of projects here. They’re not all going to get funded with that amount of cash. You know development is kind of in a bottleneck because of some of these properties aren’t coming in but cash flow in the future is going to expand greatly when we see things like the Quadrant come in. You know the lifestyle center. Some of those areas. When those develop and so there’s going to be a little bit of a timing issue here on how you stage these projects. And then you’re also eventually going to have to ask the City Council when this fund does bottom out for some period of time, what is their interest level? Do they want to you know loan this fund some money to spread things out or they just want to buy as you can. As you come along and so those are all future conversations. You can do what you can today but at some point you know if we continue to be in this bottleneck development situation, this fund is going to drain down. You want to keep some cash for that one great time opportunity and so you’re going to be in a holding position. Is that where the City Council wants to be as well? Do they want to be in that holding position so I think that’s probably a future question for one of your joint meetings. So I’d just like to open with that conversation. And then focus you in on the 3 paragraphs. And so the current CIP, what is in there today? 2017 to 2021. Is there anything that you have fallen out of love with that you would want to take out of there? And so you’ve got the Chan Nature Preserve trail extension. That’s going to happen. Entry signs. Bandimere Community Park shelter. The Galpin Boulevard trail extension. That $175,000, you know I don’t see that there’s a real need to take it out but it’s really a soft item because it’s all up to Shorewood to make that happen and they’ve been jumping around. They had that project ready to go and then they spent their MSA money and so it’s not going to happen now currently so that $175,000 is kind of a place holder. May not happen in the near future. Roundhouse Park sport court is happening and then the Bandimere Park sport court, that’s currently in there as well. So we take a look at projects utilizing other funding sources. Those are you know underway. Bluff Creek Drive pedestrian trail project and so we’ve taken that out of the park fund and we said okay when Bluff Creek Drive is improved as a road, we’re going to build that trail. That’s being programmed by the engineering group. Neighborhood park picnic shelter initiative. We have 2 more years of that. That’s underway. Bluff Creek roof reconstruction. That’s underway and then tennis court refurbishment, that’s coming on down the line. The area really you have to decide on is you know what, which items, how are you going to rank the other proposed future improvements throughout the park system 21 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 when they’re not currently programmed. So what are your priorities? There are a lot of good projects in here but we can’t accomplish them all. Recreation Center fenced dugouts and backstops. That’s been a topic of conversation. Arboretum trail connector. You’re going to have to allocate some dollars in 2019 to fund your portion of that project and so there’s going to be some matching local dollars. You know that’s a significant. Kelly: Todd? Hoffman: Yep. Kelly: Can I interrupt you? I’m sorry but aren’t we still waiting on a grant for that? Hoffman: The grant is scheduled 2019. Kelly: Okay. Hoffman: We’re just going to have a local match. We don’t know what that is yet from the county but the county grant is coming. The state grant through the county is coming. The trail will be built. We’re going to have a local match and so we’re going to have to pencil something in and then once the county notifies us of what, they don’t have the overall cost yet. Athletic field lighting. That was a hot topic a number of years ago, a few years ago and now it’s still around but is it still a priority? Sunset Ridge playground. You saw that playground condition. I would think we would want to do that in 2017 to take care of that. Fox Woods Preserve. There’s not a lot of dollars there but you know that might be a $30,000 item so we run into an area where we need some equipment or we need some maintenance materials or we need some construction materials. We might need a place holder for that. Manchester Park. You know about that project. It’s up and coming. There’s a little bit of stumbling blocks going on right now with you know will that be the, will that truly be the site and so but I don’t think it’s you know overall in jeopardy and so we know we have to fund something there for that park. People have been waiting for it. One of the last conversations I had was with a family that moved in 6 years prior and they’ve been waiting those 6 years as their kids go from 2 to 8 so they’d like to be on the playground before they’re 16. Foxwoods Subdivision trail construction reimbursement. And so what we didn’t talk about is that 101 trail on Fox Woods. So if you go back to your map, the 101 trail is only partially on their property and then it’s outside of their property. When it’s on their property we have to pay for the materials and then when it’s off their property we have to pay for the whole deal. Engineering. Design. Materials and so we know we want to complete that. Otherwise these neighbors move into Foxwoods. They can’t get to Bandimere Park and so it’s going to be a significant number and so you know it has to be a priority. As long as Foxwood continues to go forward, the subdivision, we want to build that section of trail to get them from their main street access down to the underpass. Lake Ann parking expansion. You have a plan. We’ve had a plan since I think 2009. It continues to be a significant problem there at Lake Ann. People park, they use it as an overflow parking lot on a daily basis anyway so is that a priority or is that going to continue to wait? Highway 7 trail 22 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 extension feasibility study. How long are we going to wait on connecting that trail and then the Foxwoods Preserve trails phase 1 so that’s our discussion tonight is just to give staff some indication of where your priorities are. We don’t have to get real hung up on numbers tonight as long as we know priorities. I can bring you back some alternative schedules on what you can fund throughout the next 5 years and beyond but just really need to know your impression about what is the highest priority as a commission. Kelly: Todd for discussion purposes I put together some numbers that I’m going to give you if you’d like to put up on the sheet. The first set of numbers is just where we’re currently at. I think I have it correctly and I just want that double checked. And the second set of numbers has red and blue on them where we’re changing around things and adding things and that’s just for discussion purposes to start. Those are some of my thoughts to at least get it going. The first set of numbers, do they look correct? Hoffman: Yes. Kelly: Okay then as you’ll see on the second set of numbers I made some movements. I moved the sport court for Bandimere up to 2018 from 2020 and pushed the Bandimere community shelter back to 2020. I had the Arboretum trail at $225,000 because I wasn’t sure about the grant so that would be moved over to 2019. And I didn’t have a price on Sunset Ridge or Manchester Park. I didn’t remember what those were and I don’t know if all the funds would come out of the park and rec CIP or if some of it would, for Sunset Ridge would come out of another fund but I think you told me the other fund didn’t have enough money to fund it so we’d have to come up with some money. And the Lake Ann parking extension included the $16,000 that we might have to add so that adds the 10 percent and the $16,000. And I didn’t know what a feasibility study was but I figured it’d be anywhere from $25,000 to $75,000 so I picked $50,000. And the Fox Woods trail I didn’t know. I figured it’d be, I just threw in a number. And so these are, and the Rec Center fenced dugouts at $150,000 and again I don’t have the 101 trail in there which you said we have to probably have to put in there at some point. But I thought this would just be a good starting point for discussion for tonight and I know we have what, about 2 more meetings. What is it September we have to have our final numbers or is it August? Hoffman: August. Kelly: August so we’ve got another month to figure out exactly what we need. So those are kind of what my thoughts are because I think we decided on these parks really need something and the, you know my looking at why I moved things around and the Galpin trail extension I can’t remember which year I moved that out but that may never happen as you said. That’s very soft and until Shorewood decides to do something, which they were going to do it last year and then they saw the numbers and decided not to is my understanding. I kind of looked at what can we do that’s going to be more functional for the people to use earlier on especially with the expenses and as you can see I’m about $100,000 higher than your recommended $300,000. When I said $400,000 may never happen, that’s now $175,000 since the $225,000 and I don’t 23 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 know, we don’t know what that number was but I just picked a number of what we might have to have for that and came up with it. And that’s the reason I moved the sport court up is you know people are using it right now for various things so these are things that are going to be used and I thought we might as well move things in that are going to be used sooner than later and on the shelter I’m not sure that the City Council’s going to go along with us in the long run on that anyways. So it’s, I mean those are my thoughts and people can interject what they’d like to see or where they’d like to go. Thunberg: Todd I believe in past years we’ve used the assumption of somewhere between $200,000 and $300,000 of incoming dollars each year. Is that still, you just mentioned a bottleneck of development and things like that. Is it safe to still use a similar assumption for these next 5 years? Hoffman: At least for the next couple that lower end is going to be where we’re at and so where we’re making our dollars are on these 10 to 15 lot subdivisions and sometimes even smaller and so the money comes in but it doesn’t come in as fast. There are other things, you know that are out there on the horizon. Potentially some downtown redevelopment area. And then some of these don’t meet the subdivision requirement and so then we’re out the cash but after the next 5 years you’re going to be in that range and for the first 2 or 3 of that you’re going to be in that lower end. If something pops you know then you can go. It happened the last boom. You know we were way over a million. A million 2 and just in a single year and so if you get one big project that can happen but for the time being I would say it’s rice and beans because that’s the kind of budget you’re in. Now Todd you said right about a $1,890,000. How much has yet to be spent for 2016? Do we know that number? Hoffman: Most of the budget. I don’t know the exact number but all the big projects, Roundhouse, Bandimere, that’s all yet to be expended. Some of that cash won’t go out. We’re just going to get started in those projects. Some of them won’t go out but the majority will. Kelly: Okay. Hoffman: So that’s close to a million bucks right there. That fund’s going to look smaller come spring. Kelly: Okay. Hougham: Yeah just a comment on the proposal here. I am a bit concerned about the community shelter at Bandimere being pushed out. I think that’s something that that park really needs. Just the meeting center. The bathroom facilities. Just having that be the central park in the southern portion I really think that’s key to the park. Hoffman: I think you had a team mate tonight on modern facilities. She wanted lights on a nature trail so. 24 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 Hougham: I mean given the dollars I don’t know if that should be moved up but that’s something I’m disappointed seeing being moved back. Hoffman: Yeah it currently stays in the year that it’s in unless the commission moves it by vote. Scharfenberg: I would join in Jennifer’s comments regarding the shelter as well as Bandimere. I would like to see that continue where we have it presently. I think again that it’s an important part of that particular park and I think it’s something that would really, in addition to having the hockey rink and that, kind of sets that off especially with respect to the sports courts that are going to be built there as well so I’m also in favor of keeping that where it is. Todd regarding Manchester and the water treatment facility, when you made the comment earlier about well that’s kind of in limbo. I mean to the extent that we were out there whatever it was, 30 days ago and we’re looking at that. Is there something that we’re not aware of that they’re talking about moving that or not putting it there or just that the City’s? Hoffman: There’s citizen groups that are opposed to the current project and location. Scharfenberg: Okay. Hoffman: So where that turns out we don’t know. I don’t foresee that it’s going to move but we’re tied to that project so wherever that project goes as far as timing, then that’s when our budget goes into place. So we’re talking 2 playgrounds which is about you know $100,000 park shelter installation so we’re now in that $150,000 range to do our part of that project with concrete and mortar. Probably some minor landscaping. Scharfenberg: So what is the time table right now for? Hoffman: 2018. Scharfenberg: 2018 okay, so where Cole has that now in 2017 could be moved back to 2018. Hoffman: It could be correct. Scharfenberg: Okay. With respect to some of the other things that are on here, I’m not necessarily beholden to that Highway 7 trail extension feasibility study. That’s something in my opinion that could be taken out having gone out there. You know unless there’s some work that’s going to be done at Highway 7 to build that particular part of the trail, personally I just don’t see that happening so I wouldn’t necessarily be in favor of putting that money in there. And then with respect to Sunset Ridge, so wouldn’t that be replacement as to capital improvement and so. Hoffman: That’s where…should go correct. 25 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 Scharfenberg: Right. Why would we consider that as part of our CIP if it’s really replacement? Hoffman: We would make the request and request that it comes out of that capital improvement program, not out of so but that 75 or what that number would go up. This would come out of not your park dedication fund so it’d be in a category that we list other funding sources. Scharfenberg: Yep. Hoffman: Yep. Scharfenberg: Okay. And then with respect to the whole Fox Woods portion of some of that, I mean what Todd, what do you see as the thing that we would need to do first with respect to Fox Woods if we’re going to do anything out there? Hoffman: So when they start building those roads we’re going to access that park from those locations and so we’re going to be ahead of them. They’re going to be grading. We’re going to head in there. We’re going to do our clearing so we’re going to be doing some clearing and grubbing and if we don’t, if we’re out of time in our work line, we don’t have that, we may be hiring some of that and so we may go out and seek a contractor to come in and say okay, here’s what we’ve marked. We want this cleared and grubbed. Do you want the stumps grubbed out? Where to set a place in time. Sometimes we don’t have that time to do that. We’ve got other things to be maintaining and so that’s a you know $10,000 to $15,000 contract. Something like that might be a little more. Might be a little less depending on the extent of that and then same thing, we’ll try to spread those woodchips with Sentence to Serve workers or the Corp people but if we don’t have that availability again we might just hire that same contractor to say okay, you know we want 6 inches of woodchips on all this and that would be another $10,000. Something like that and so just having that buffer to be able to manage so we can effectively have that thing ready to go when these houses are sold and people are moving in. We don’t want to be in there when people are moving in. We want to be done and out and when they walk in there they’re like wow, the City really took care of us here. We’re all set and ready to go so that’s like a $30,000 item you know plus or minus. Scharfenberg: Okay. Hougham: Do we have to have the dollars for the paved trail on 101 at that point in time? Hoffman: We do…it’s probably likely in 2018 that that work will, you know 2017-2018 so those dollars and I’ll get you that number. We’ve been asking the engineering firm and they don’t have that advance as of yet but once we get that I’ll include those numbers in your recommendation for August. Hougham: Okay, thanks. 26 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 Thunberg: One clarification Todd. You mentioned the current $1.9 million dollar balance we have doesn’t include, so the 2016 projects, the hockey rink, the Roundhouse Park will come out of that? Hoffman: Correct. Thunberg: So really we’re looking at about a million dollars left for 2017 through 2021. We’re going to be on the low end of the range for the next few years so let’s assume $200,000 a year for the next 5 years. That’s a million dollars. We always want to keep a million dollars in there so I’m looking at this and seeing that we have $2 million dollars in projects for the next 5 years. To me it’s, you know I know we’ve talked in the past years about always including the Bandimere projects because going back to the master plan we wanted to make sure it was a priority and that it, maintain that visibility but I think when you look at the balance and what we’re going to be faced with for the next few years, we’re kind of bluntly we’re at a choice. We either keep the Bandimere projects on there and that’s it or we take them off and I’m saying that knowing that there’s the master park plan work coming over the next year. I just don’t think it’s smart for, if we’re going to keep a million dollar balance, we kind of have a choice. Do the large Bandimere projects stay on there and that’s pretty much it because we also want to keep that rainy day fund or do we make the choice that those come off altogether. We budget for these other projects to get done. We maintain a million dollar balance knowing that at this time next year there will be the park master plan and we’ll have a little bit more direction for the larger stuff. I guess I just don’t feel like we can responsibly keep 2 million dollars of projects on there with the balance we’re at so. Carron: Todd can you just, the Arboretum trail. Remind me where that was. Where that connection was. Does that go underneath? Hoffman: Yep absolutely. So the Arboretum will start at Century Boulevard. The south side of the Highway 5 ditch. Go right in front of Lifetime Fitness. There will be an underpass on Highway 41. The trail will go around the sign. The Arboretum sign and then head right down to the front door of the Arboretum. That entrance drive through the Arboretum property. Carron: And that was, was that a grant? Hoffman: Grant. Million dollars. The City applied one year. We scored close but we didn’t receive it. We know when we bump that up to a county level they score a little bit better. Applied with the county with us supporting the project, versus them supporting our project…they ranked. They scored. It was really a nice funding gap in there. A lot of times it depends on how big the projects are above you and so they were fortunate to make the list and it’s going to be a really nice project to connect. To get that underpass at 41. We’ll probably be in the $100,000 range or more…on what our contribution is so that’s coming up… We’ll bring our best estimate as staff you know on where we think that, how this cash flow thing is going to 27 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 play out. You can spend that million down and do projects. It’s kind of a cash flow question. And so you know there’s, there’s also the element of time and getting things in place and you’ve been collecting these dollars and you also have to answer to the citizenry about you know you collected these dollars and you’re just going to hold them. Well what are you going to hold them for? When you can, when you have the luxury of keeping those dollars it’s very easy to do it but if you’re out and you’re just saying you know what, we’re not going to do anything else and that’s a question that we have to ask our policy makers about how they want to manage that fund. Boettcher: Todd how much money do we get like Children’s Learning Adventures, are we getting a chunk there and then like the lifestyle center? Hoffman: Lifestyle center will be some big cash. I don’t have, I haven’t played that out. I don’t believe there was a subdivision on the Children’s Learning Center so I don’t think we have any cash coming in there. Boettcher: Because looking like what Luke said earlier, a couple of these items for next year, last month we went over to Lake Ann and looking at the parking lot. I mean for a safety concern which is always big with me, I would probably like to see that moved to 2017 and take the Highway 7 trail extension study and Manchester Park and move those both over to 2018 just to get, if you want to get the more critical projects first. That’s what I would see would be more critical than those other 2. Hoffman: Yeah and the feasibility study, part of that can be, you can use a feasibility study to build momentum but if there’s no likely funding then you’re just putting it on a shelf and so you’ve invested your dollars and it will probably get old by the time you, you know you’ve got some good background information there. Carron: That’s my worry with how expensive that’s going to be built, to build that Highway 7 trail that we might be just throwing $50,000 away if we put it in the CIP because by the time that comes up some drastic things might happen or change to that highway so I would say just put that on the shelf period for the time being. Hoffman: We’ll take a look at it as a grant opportunity. We did once before and we’ll do that again and then if you do apply you have to have some reasonable planning documents in place and then we could invest in those at that time so you know then you would have some of those answers on what would be a possible funding mechanism for it. See people all the time, I’m on that road a lot and they’re utilizing that shoulder so you know it’s just one of the things that would be nice to have but it’s going to take some significant dollars to make it happen. Echternacht: Luke I respect what you said about holding the money but I think the citizens are looking forward to Bandimere like has been said and I think we should keep that in, even if it’s going to take us down below the million that we like to hold and actually move ahead a year and 28 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 push that up. I think they’re looking, the citizens are looking to us to make something happen there. Kelly: I put some numbers together real quick here. Looks like at the end of this year with what Todd told me our balance should be at about a million two. That’s including $200,000 of income coming in and that’s leaving everything the same except moving the Arboretum trail over to 2019. 2017 with $200,000 coming in would be down to a million one. In 2018 will be down to $977,000. 2019 will be at $875,000. 2020, $535,000 and again starting in 2018 I made it $300,000 a year that’s coming in. Hoffman: Okay. Kelly: And then in 2021, $635,000 so I’m actually in agreement with Luke. I don’t see the Bandimere community shelter coming out of our CIP fund. If it’s going to come it’s going to come out of some other fund or some other grant because that’s, we just don’t, right now just looking at it the money, we don’t have the money and this doesn’t include what we’re going to have to do for Highway 101 yet and I don’t know how expensive that’s going to be but that’s going to take all my numbers that I just gave you down at least a couple hundred thousand if not more and that puts us really low. And if the City Council wants us to spend down we can but I don’t like spending down too much again if we have things crop up like the 101 project and we’re going to have to have money. We don’t know what’s cropping up in the future. Boettcher: Well I agree and along with what Jennifer said, I’d love to see Bandimere be completed. I mean I’d love to see that community shelter there but I still go back 2 years or whatever it was and how balloons got deflated when we went to City Council with our quote, unquote bulletproof plan and came out of there and said we could plant 10 trees at Bandimere and that was it so we have to get somebody behind this too. We have to get the horsepower behind us. I mean I’d love to get it done but we don’t have the money. Who’s going to step up, belly up to the bar and say here’s $640,000 or whatever? I’d like to get, I mean I hate piecemealing stuff together. You sit there for years and years. My fifth year on the commission and we’re still talking about the same thing. It gets old after a while and without a referendum getting money in, what do we do? We are limited at the money we have coming. Kelly: Right and that could be a, you know I look at that as a master park plan and I also actually look at Highway 7 extension as a master park plan so at this point it might be worth taking that feasibility study out because we’re not going to be paying for the Highway 7 extension out of our funds. That’s never going to happen. And from what with the response we got from the City Council I don’t see the community shelter coming out of our funds at this time and so what I want to do is put together something reasonable that the City Council is going to approve and want to move forward on and so I looked at things would impact people the quickest. The safety issues with the parking lot or you know moving up the sport court because it’s already being used for various items. 29 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 Carron: Well why don’t we, as far as Bandimere community shelter, I agree it’s a big chunk of money. I also agree that the shelter initiative is well perceived in this community which I think it is. I think that park needs something but why don’t we propose something to the City Council as negotiating or here, this is what we think we can afford and put it in our CIP and what kind of backing do we have from the City Council. What the City Council might come to the table with because I mean they threw out quite a big dollars for all these park shelters here that are being put up for the last 2 years and 3 years going forward I think. What’s it hurt to ask and see if they’ll join on us with leftover funds or some sort of initiative that they want to put together and go that route. That way it’s kind of a partnership. Not all coming out of the CIP if we choose, we think it’s a good enough program. Hoffman: A couple of thoughts. That’s a great idea. I don’t think they’re going to do anything until that master plan process is done. That’s 14 months out. Next year you’ll have a lot more information going forward and so when we’re talking about even 2018, 2019, that’s going to be, those items are going to be largely affected by that park master plan conversation because there’s going to be a whole plan coming forth with dollars assigned to it and how we’re going to do it. What are going to be the priorities? There’s going to be some policy decisions around that. One thing to remember the Bandimere community park shelter is $640,000 is currently approved in 2018. It’s currently approved as a part of your CIP so unless you change that recommendation and take that out and the council agrees with that, it’s currently in your CIP in 2018 at $640,000. So that will be a recommendation that when I bring this to you next month it will be there in 2018. You can decide as a commission if you’re going to move it. Take it out. Leave it in. We’ll have all of the other items in there. When I’m sitting down with the City Manager and coming up with a recommendation, how far do we drive that budget down or how large we leave it, that’s kind of his best guess on what he thinks the, his City Council is going to approve as well and so you’ll have staff’s, you know recommendation and position on that. And then as a commission it’s your job to either agree with that. You know change some things up. Again tonight I wanted to hear priorities. The dollar amounts, we’ll be able to figure that out and give you a list and so I’m hearing Lake Ann is a priority. Highway 7 feasibility study we’re going to wait on. The things that we have to do are going to be a priority. Manchester Park we have to do. Arboretum trail’s got to be in there. Sunset Ridge you want to do that next year. We’re going to propose it and again that’s going to be a policy question to the City Council is are they going to start that replacement program prior to the master plan being complete? I think that neighborhood park you know is asking to be replaced. We’ll have to see if they agree with that or if they want to wait til that park master planning process is done. So I don’t think you’re far off. I think I have a pretty good grasp of what your priorities are and where you want to move the budget in 2017 and beyond. And then I think there’s going to be sizeable additional shifts after that once we get this park master plan process on the street. And it’s going to include CIP but it’s going to include a bunch of other things as well. Carron: Todd in the past we, I think it was in the past August’s we got together a little bit earlier to kind of go through some of the stuff. It’s kind of like a little mini work session. 30 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 Hoffman: Be glad to. Carron: Should we do that again this time to have a little bit more time to talk about the CIP? Hoffman: Okay. On that particular night right? Carron: Yeah. Hoffman: Okay. Thunberg: Todd I think you kind of went through most of the additions and changes on here but just to speak, I do think the Rec Center fenced dugouts just with the work we’ve seen on Lake Ann and how that was discussed as a safety issue, keeping that as a priority on here for the Rec Center I would agree with. Hoffman: Okay. Thunberg: And then going back to Bandimere, once the hockey rink’s done and we’ve completed that there’s basically, we’ve taken lights off of here from what the master plan was so basically there’s the 2 items. The sport court and the community shelter which I believe also included replacing that playground and kind of building out that whole center of the park. Scharfenberg: It did and it… Thunberg: It was right next to it though right? Scharfenberg: The playground stayed, yep. Hoffman: Stays. Thunberg: Okay. Well I guess what I was going to get to is, I would be in favor of swapping them. I mean right now we have the community shelter in 2018 and the, they’re flipped right? The sport court in 2020. To me if the sport court gets put in the park’s essentially complete. The community shelter is something new, an addition but in terms of using the park there’s a center of the park. There’s a playground there. There’s all the amenities. The sport court, there’s a spot for it. It’s just an empty field. It’s at the front of the park so it’s noticeable. I would be in favor of actually switching them as this notes and doing that first because if you had to pause there for a couple years, then I would feel like the amenities of the park are complete and the community shelter park can come later. Kelly: So are we talking about meeting at 6:30 next month? Or should we be here a little earlier. 31 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 Boettcher: 6:30 I think is fine. Kelly: 6:30 okay. That’s what I just put in my. Carron: You got it locked in? Kelly: Got it locked in. Now I can’t miss it. If I don’t lock it in I could miss it. Hoffman: Thank you. Appreciate your time and your comments. Kelly: Thank you Todd. RECOMMENDATION TO RECRUIT MEMBERS FOR PARK MASTER PLAN ADVISORY COMMITTEE AND APPOINTMENTS OF TWO PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION MEMBERS TO THE COMMITTEE. Kelly: Moving right along we kind of touched on this subject a little bit. The need to recruit members for a master plan advisory committee and appoint 2 Park and Recreation Commission members to the committee. Todd you want to speak on it or do you want me to speak on it a little bit and you fill in the cracks. Hoffman: You can go ahead. I just want to note one change last night, the City Council added a high school student member from each of the schools and so that’s Chanhassen and Minnetonka so this list goes to 15 total members. They appointed Elise Ryan as the City Council member representative last night. When you appoint 2 tonight, that leaves 13 to go and we’re talking about divvying that list up this evening amongst park commissioners to bring forward members so that’s what I have Chairman. Kelly: Okay so what we need to do tonight is we’re going to look for a couple volunteers from this group who want to be on the commission. And I think they’re going to meet on Thursdays once a month Todd. Hoffman: Thursdays about 6 to 8 times over that 14 month process. Kelly: Okay, 6 to 8 times over 14 months on Thursdays. And it’s also going to be our job to recruit people from these various associations to get on the commission. So I guess my first question tonight is who’s interested in being on the park plan advisory committee. Carron: When does the 14 months start? Hoffman: September. 32 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 Kelly: So we’ve got to do some recruiting in a hurry here. We don’t have a lot of time to recruit so it’s going to be individual recruiting of people you know because we don’t really have time to put it in the paper and wait for people to respond and that type of thing. nd Hoffman: August 22 will be, we’ll take your recommendations and so when you’re reaching out to people what we want are folks that are interested and being involved in our community from each one of these sections and obviously a variety of individuals. They should all be Chanhassen residents and a variety of interest groups. Interest areas and then we’ll put that list nd together for the City Council to approve on the 22. And if you each take 1 or 2 from whatever the area you have connections with and then when you contact, I would contact the one person you think is the best person in that organization. If they say yes then email either contact information and we’ll start… Scharfenberg: Todd when it says Independent School District 276 member. Is it a board member or is it just somebody that has a student within the school district? Hoffman: Council asked the same question. It’s a parent. It could be a, most likely not a board member. It could be a board member. A parent. Teacher. Coach. Anybody involved with that district that has a sincere interest in contributing to this committee. Scharfenberg: Okay. Boettcher: I’d volunteer from the group of commissioners here to be on it. It starts in September. Kelly: Okay Jim Boettcher has volunteered to be on the committee. Do we have anybody else who’s volunteering to be on the committee? Scharfenberg: I would like to as well. Kelly: And Steve Scharfenberg has mentioned he’d like to be on the committee. Who else? Anybody else would like to be on the committee? Echternacht: I would but my wife is having both hips replaced over the next 4 months starting on the 22 of August. So I don’t think I’m going to be. Kelly: So Rick would like to but he’s going to decline his name out there. Anybody else interested? Carron: I guess I’m interested. I’ll be leaving the commission here in less than a year so something to do. 33 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 Kelly: We’d hate to see you get bored. Okay so we have 3 people who want to be on the commission and we can only have 2. Of course you can come through, if you guys kind of, I’m happy with the 3 of you going into a room and duking it out and then coming back and saying. But also you can come in as a member, as a parent member if you really want to be on it. If you’re not 1 of the 2 chosen. Of one of the school districts would be another way in. Hoffman: That’d kind of be stacking the deck. Kelly: Yeah that’d be stacking the deck so we can only have 2, that’s right. Well you know it’s still legal. Carron: Well I’ll take myself off. Kelly: Alright. Hoffman: Well another thing to remember is this group is the primary driver of this. The advisor committee is to review what your recommendations are. Their recommendation is not coming to you. Your recommendation is going to them primarily. There is going to be some crossover in that. You can attend any of those meetings, those advisory committee meetings. I’m sure they’re going to be advisory committee individuals sitting in this audience when you’re talking about it. And then so there’s a lot of crossover in there… Kelly: Mr. Brent Carron has withdrawn his name from the committee so right now I think as the commission we appoint Jim Boettcher and Steve Scharfenberg to be on the Park Master Plan Advisory Committee. Thank you gentlemen for volunteering and we appreciate your additional service. Boettcher: Cash accepted. Scharfenberg: Or cookies. Kelly: Some things will never die. So Todd when it says 1 soccer association member, what soccer association are we looking at? Hoffman: Either one. I would hope that whoever takes that would identify a person that perhaps has worked in both maybe or at least is just community minded enough to say that they would just represent soccer overall. So it’s either one. Staff will take Planning Commission member. Environmental Commission member and Senior Commission member. Staff will also take Carver County Public Health. So we’ll seek those folks. That leaves 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. Kelly: I’m happy to, unless somebody else has got a closer association, I’m happy to look into the Chanhassen Athletic Association and the soccer association. So who’s the artsy person here? 34 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 Jim pointed to Jennifer. Jennifer you get to recruit somebody from the Eastern Carver County Arts Consortium. Hougham: Done. Kelly: Okay. And if you guys don’t volunteer we’re just going to point to you. So next is the. Hougham: I do have a nomination. I think Dale could do the high school student members. Kelly: And we’d have to ask her because I understand she’s got a lot of time commitments. Hougham: No that she would find the 2 members. Scharfenberg: At least from Chan. Hougham: Yeah. Kelly: At least from Chan. I don’t know if we can have her do the other high school. Hougham: Yeah definitely. Kelly: Yeah we’ll have Lauren do Chan. Perfect. Echternacht: You chose 2. I’ll take soccer. Kelly: Okay I’ll give it to you. Soccer’s gone from Cole and it’s now with Rick. So we have. Thunberg: School District 112. Hoffman: You have school district members, Southwest Chamber. That’s it. Oh then Minnetonka student. Kelly: Oh yeah Minnetonka student. Who lives on the north side? Scharfenberg: Well you know Elise can probably do the 276 member because Elise is in 276. Kelly: Okay let’s ask her to do that. Scharfenberg: She could probably do the student too. Hoffman: Okay. You want to contact her Steve? Scharfenberg: I will. 35 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 Hoffman: Thank you. Kelly: Thank you Steve. Scharfenberg: I can take the Chamber. Kelly: Okay. That’s it. Scharfenberg: No we need public health. Hoffman: I’ll do that. Kelly: Staff. Scharfenberg: Oh staff, okay. Hoffman: We’ve been working with them on the Act on Alzheimers committee who we’ll reach out to someone there. Scharfenberg: Sounds good. Hoffman: It’s going to be a good group. You have to speak up to be heard. Kelly: No kidding. Alright I think we’re all set with that. th Hoffman: So let’s say by August 10. th Kelly: That we get names to Todd by August 10. Hoffman: Yep, thank you. TH RECREATION PROGRAM REPORTS: 2016 4 OF JULY CELEBRATION EVALUATION. th Kelly: Okay, Jerry since Katie’s not here you going to give us a quick overview of the 4 of July celebration? Ruegemer: I sure will. Thank you Chair Kelly. As Chair Kelly said I’m not going to go through th item for item on the 4 of July celebration. Just wanted to take a minute to thank everybody for all your input and support throughout the celebration. It was a great event again. We really had a lot of people participate in a wide variety of programs and events that we had so. In order I guess to you know I’ll entertain any questions you guys may have for me tonight but again just 36 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 wanted thank everybody. It’s really our signature event for our year. A lot of great feedback on rd it and we just celebrated our 33 year so we’re doing something right and the community definitely enjoys it and have really started their traditions and generational traditions with that too so we always hear really great feedback on it. Hoffman: It’s a good sounding board so this is the place we want to hear your thoughts. Have you heard from your neighbors or you were there. Many positive additions and changes have been made to that celebration starting in this room. Kelly: My son was at the fireworks and he made the comment to me, he goes the Chanhassen fireworks was much better than Grandview Lodge ever put out. Hoffman: A lot of smiley faces. Scharfenberg: Jerry the one comment I did get from some people was, I think it was maybe the first night of the rides that there was some electric issue. The rides weren’t available. Little kids rides right away and so that was kind of disappointing for those people. They had some kids there and those rides weren’t available right away so if, I don’t know if you heard that from other people or not. Hoffman: I had not yet. Ruegemer: I didn’t either. Scharfenberg: And then I would just say for next year, I know the Red Birds have talked about th doing a game again. We just part of it is I think with the 4 falling on a weekend the last couple of years it’s been difficult to get the players here but we still would, you know once our schedule, and we start doing our schedule in February and March. We’ve talked about doing a game again so just to let you guys know that. th Carron: I had 2 things to point out. Someone asked if, well it being 4 of July and all so it’s pretty tough but more bands so I don’t know how you guys solicit that. Hoffman: In the parade? Carron: Yep. More bands in the parade. And then also the, just a suggestion or maybe it’s been brought up in the past but it seemed like the curb and gutter moved way out in the parade and to me it started to look like a safety concern especially with all the vehicles. Big trucks zooming things around. The marching bands that went through, it was kind of getting tight in there. I don’t know how to better police that outside of maybe having the people that throw candy walk on the curb or walk next to the curb rather than out so it draws people back towards the curb maybe because that was the big draw is people going out for the candy but it was a huge crunch. People that were sitting on the curb couldn’t see anything and then everyone’s running out there 37 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 so maybe, and half the time I heard the people that were in the parade yelling you know get back. Move back and that sort of thing and there’s a lot of kids running around so I think I want to say there’s a community that I heard that actually ran someone over once and then they had to stop so we don’t want that to happen here so. Ruegemer: We did discuss that at our kind of our wrap meeting as well. We’re going to look at a new initiative of getting additional volunteers for parade marshals to take you know more of an active role on keeping. I was kind of walking through a little bit as well and I noticed the same thing with that. It’s certainly education with the parade participants as well or the float participants. It’s really communicated every year that you can’t throw candy from the float itself. That you’re supposed to be walking and kind of dropping as you go along on the curb line but you know we just need to do a better job at that and communicate that additionally to the float people and make sure that that happens. And a lot can happen with additional volunteers and parade marshals along the route as well. Hoffman: It’s really a challenge. We try to think of things every year. As a candy thrower this year myself I went up to the wall. I threw it behind them to the curb and it was like a wave. They went back and got it. They came right back up. Immediately. Echternacht: This year they went out and they never came back. Hoffman: Yeah. Echternacht: And this year parents joined them out there. Hoffman: Yeah. Echternacht: And stayed out there so all of us that were sitting back, now we have all these parents standing out there blocking the parade along with all the small kids that could get run over so. Hoffman: Yeah you almost need a physical barrier which is just about impossible to do and you know it’s been talked about year after year after year and there are problems and it could be created because of that and there are other problems, parades are somewhat dangerous just inherently and so even if the kids are back on the curb. I’ve worked as a marshal many years. You can move them back. They’ll be right back out 30 seconds later. Parents will tell them to get out and it’s really a competitive deal. It kind of goes in hand with our Easter Egg candy hunt. Once they want the candy it’s highly competitive and so there is one thing. The Rotary chalk and so they give the kids the street and then they think they own it and so if you don’t give them the chalk and you keep them on the curb the whole time that might help but they don’t seem to want to give away the chalk round up before the parade starts and so think about it. I put a lot of time and effort into it trying to think of a better solution because that’s the last thing we want is to get somebody hurt or injured. The bands do move them back. They’re pretty effective 38 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 because they have to. They need the space and so they move the kids back. It’s a Rotary event. Many of the bands are paid and so they only have a certain budget. Many of these bands come here because they’re paid and so it’s a community effort and so the best way for community members to get more people is to rally their friends and neighbors who are participating in some kind of a band to get in the parade. We almost have every local band in there already and then the paid ones would be like Waconia, Brass Chopsticks, Jack Brass. Those folks are all paid or they would not be here. And the night before, the beer gardens pays for your bands so it’s all, and it all works together so the cash they make at the beer garden. The flyover is paid. There’s a variety of paid entertainment which most people don’t know. I think what’s their budget, 10-12 grand in paid entertainment so it’s an expensive parade. Scharfenberg: They need cheap bands. Hoffman: Waconia will not come for cheap. They’re the best band in there and they’re paid to be here and that’s why they come. Otherwise they wouldn’t be here. Echternacht: Heard all the positive this year and every year but I did hear a negative as far as the band. It seemed like the speakers or the volume was extremely high this year. Ruegemer: For CBO? Echternacht: Yes and I heard that from numerous people. Hoffman: Thank you. nd Thunberg: We were there on July 2, the family night and that was great so I know you said this was the sixth year so I’d strongly recommend continuing that. It’s a lot of fun. The only recommendation I would have is that night there was no pony rides. Those apparently didn’t rd start until the 3 so if there was any way for on family night with all the young kids being there to have some sort of pony ride or camel ride that I think in the past we’ve had those on family night but this year there weren’t. Hougham: We didn’t last year but I would recommend it. Hoffman: It was in my evaluation as well. More animals. People love animals. They’re paying for it. It used to be free. Now they’re paying 5 bucks. Hougham: I just have a comment about my participation in the parade. I was a judge for the parade which was very fun. So just a few comments there. So there are categories. There are like 5 different categories that we voted on which I never really knew about before and the judges kind of felt like not a lot of people got into it so I don’t know how we raise kind of awareness or spirit kind of a thing. 39 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 Hoffman: Got into the categories? Hougham: In the categories. Hoffman: They wouldn’t even know what they were. The people in the parade wouldn’t even know what the categories are. Hougham: Oh okay. Is that something? Hoffman: It’s just a communication thing. Hougham: We should tell them beforehand so they know what they can. Hoffman: They know the theme but they don’t know the judging categories but yeah, that’s a good recommendation. Hougham: Yeah I guess that would make sense then. They weren’t that into it so it was kind of like well, what are we voting on here? Hoffman: Yeah your job as it turns out you didn’t know what your job was but your job is to, your job is to put people in a category which kind of seems backwards I agree with you but that yeah. Hougham: It just seemed like the spirit could have been amped up and I guess people weren’t performing for the judges which. Carron: Didn’t you see the fire fighter? Hoffman: She saw the fire fighter. Hougham: We had one person perform for the judges so yeah it was just kind of odd on that note. And people didn’t know where the judges stand was so like the Waconia band parents, they came to us ahead of time and said, are you guys the judges? Okay is this where they’re judging the bands? I’m like yes, right here but then there was no, there was no way in the parade for them to know that the judge stand was right there so they performed up the street. And they were there to win an award you know so just a little bit different. And then we did have some microphone issues. Hoffman: Yep and we’re going to get a bigger system. Hougham: So just some comments for next year. Echternacht: Did they end up selling out all the t-shirts? 40 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 Ruegemer: No we still have some left. Echternacht: Okay the reason I say that, I was working the car show and a number of people came there and the place was closed where they could buy them the night before. They’d come and they’d say oh, they went over there and they couldn’t buy them and then we had different people trying to find out where they could buy them and we never did find out before the parade started. Hoffman: Okay, great. Kelly: Thank you for that great report Jerry. Hoffman: And thanks for all your input. It really helps. You know we take it. We talk about it as a staff but we also provide input to the Rotary. We’re all challenged with time commitments and organizational commitments but always room for improvement and the parade was short on volunteers this year and that’s getting to be an even bigger challenge and so as a staff we’re going to work with the Rotary this year starting probably in about 3 months on a volunteer core where we’re going to have probably between 50 and 75 volunteers signed up 3 months in advance of this event and that will help with things like crowd control and other things. T-shirt sales. All those things. This event is just too large for staff. Paid staff and the Rotary to put on the streets and continue to do the high quality that we want so we’re just going to bring more people in that want to be involved, and there are people out there that want to. They just have to engage them. Kelly: Thank you Todd. COMMISSION MEMBER COMMITTEE REPORTS. None. COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTATIONS. Kelly: I think Jennifer has a few items she’d like to talk about. Hougham: I do. So I have two actually. One I told you about and then one additional I’ll tack on after. Kelly: Okay. Hougham: The first one is, we received an email within the last 2 weeks about pickleball lines being drawn on the tennis courts at North Lotus Lake Park. I just wanted to bring that up for discussion. I don’t have a presentation on that today. Todd in the email that you addressed to the commission you mentioned about the money it would take to purchase nets and do lines on all of the established basketball and tennis courts at all of the neighborhood parks. Personally on 41 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 like my thoughts about this issue and then I wanted to open it up to discussion for the commission. I guess I believe you sent that email out about all of the neighborhood parks to keep them all equal with what we offer. For pickleball I’m glad they want to use that for pickleball and I think that’s great and I think for that particular park if we could do the lines for them I think that would be fantastic since that’s something they’re asking for. I don’t feel that it’s something that we have to do at every single neighborhood park just because this one park is asking for it. I just wanted to bring that up. I think we should be prepared if other neighborhood parks ask for it. That we are willing to do that for them if we do that but not necessarily going out and just doing it. Hoffman: I think doing a test case study is a good thing. One thing we try not to do and that’s what we’re talking about is just because one person says we should or shouldn’t do something, you know we don’t decide that we should, you know let’s do it at that location. As a commission if you think it’s a good idea, do you think it’s a good idea at one location? Do you think it’s a good idea at all locations? You know that’s the real question because you represent all the citizens. Not just one person that emails. Or do you just want to try it and see how they like it? So put it out at this one. They expressed an interest. Put it out there. Other people will see it. That’s kind of the question that we’re asking so I respect that opinion. We’re fine to do that. The gentleman that called about the basketball court, he was out there, Steve Williams of Bobby and Steve Auto World. Lives right down there. He says hey we’re out here playing pickleball with my neighbors. We used chalk. It’d be really nice if we could put lines on. Can we put lines on here? I said it’d be great to come down and do that for you but without this commission and then once we started talking about basketball we said well hang on a minute. Tennis might be a more appropriate location but then some parks don’t have tennis so then would you do it on basketball? And then you know if you do this you have existing courts that now are dual purpose and you’re probably going to run into some problems down when somebody stands there and says hey, I went to play basketball with my kid and there was a whole bunch of adults playing pickleball so we couldn’t play basketball or vice versa with tennis and so that’s why you probably want to start slow and see how it goes. Kelly: Todd what would the cost and the upkeep be of doing it to one location? Hoffman: A few hundred dollars. Kelly: And the time commitment? I mean how often would we, once we line it it’s done for the season? Hoffman: Done for a couple seasons, yeah. Kelly: Yeah. Hoffman: Or more. We don’t reline on those for a couple three seasons. We built some sort of modest enclosure. Put the net in there and then again you’re going to see how that goes. Is the 42 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 net going to be there? Is it going to be vandalized? Is it going to be stolen? Is it going to be hauled down to the swamp for a seining net. There is all those kind of issues. What did we have this week? Overturned paddle boat in Lake Ann. There’s all sorts of creative things that people do in our community. So we’d be glad to do that and really just all we need is a thumbs up from the commission. Thunberg: Doesn’t installing the nets shrink the useful size of the basketball court for those that want to use it for that purpose? Hougham: They’re temporary nets. Hoffman: Yep, temporary. It’s one of the other. So you put a temporary net alongside. When you’re playing pickleball you string them out, yep. When you’re done you put it away. We talk about it, it’s a small time period but it’s typically the same time period that everybody wants to use it. You know weekends or after work. Kelly: So where would be the best place to test this out would you think? Hoffman: With the 2 people that contacted us. Bandimere Heights and North Lotus and we’d have one on basketball and one on tennis and see how it goes. Kelly: See how it works. So what does the commission think? So we’re going to spend what? Maybe a thousand bucks including the total. I could be for it on a test case basis and then see how it works out. Carron: I’d say put it on new business for next month. Scharfenberg: I agree. Kelly: So Todd let’s add it to new business for next month. Hoffman: Okay, thank you. Kelly: And then have some sort of motion. Hoffman: Yeah and we’ll invite those people that we contacted or contacted us. Kelly: Perfect, thank you. Hougham: As a side note, there are pickleball lessons being offered at the Rec this week and next week. There are still spots available if you would like to sign up. Kelly: Did you sign up? 43 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 Hougham: Ah no but I’m going to. Kelly: Well good. Hougham: I didn’t know about them until today. Kelly: Okay. Let’s move onto your next topic. Hougham: Okay my next topic is me and my family have been enjoying the beach at Lake Ann this year a lot and it is just an absolutely wonderful park and the beach there is amazing. One of the things that I just wanted to talk about with the commission today and I don’t even know if it is part of what our commission does but it’s just something I wanted to bring up and make sure everybody could at least discuss it but that park is absolutely amazing. The fact that there is no development around that lake is I don’t know. I just think it’s a very precious asset that we currently have and knowing that, I’m sorry. I really like that park. Kelly: It is a jewel. Hougham: Just knowing that the 2 other properties on the other side that are available could potentially be going into other hands I just think that it’s something for the City and for this park that would be in everyone’s best interest to keep that in whatever pristine condition that we could possibly get it in. Hoffman: And the City and this body, the City Council has shared that opinion for a number of years and so there’s a current plan in place on the Comprehensive Plan to acquire everything that’s in the wooded triangle to the north. West of the park just basically across the lake into the west a little bit. So you gain the property between the two lakes. You gain all that wooded triangle over there between Prince’s former house and the lakes. Then you wrap it around and then on the Gorra property you take that front chunk of property so you can continue the trail. That would all happen as a part of the subdivision process and a development process and there’s so much land that would be acquired as a part of the Prince property, Mr. Nelson’s property that that would have to take a density transfer where you take some of the housing that could go in there. Transfer it out to the more upland part of the property and so many people have contacted us. We’ve received many emails. Calls. Inquiries. It’s simply just a remarkable coincidence that Mr. Gorra and Mr. Nelson passed away 10 days apart. They’re the two largest property owners associated with Lake Ann other than the City. And so we updated that plan in 2009 or 10 and so we’re taking a look at that again. And it basically it studies how many housing units. What’s going in there. How can we acquire it. People have asked us to buy it all outright. You know that simply is not going to be attainable so. Scharfenberg: If we can do that we can do the shelter. 44 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 Hoffman: You know Lake Ann is just a remarkable story, like Jennifer shares. From the very beginning that was acquired through a referendum in the 60’s. In the late 60’s. For this community to think that it was a worthy investment to say hey, shall we sell $250,000 in bonds to buy Lake Ann. Back then they knew it was special. The swimming beach was there then. And then we did the expansion. Eckankar, they already struck the deal up with the bank to buy all that land. Don Ashworth, previous City Manager stepped in and said hey before you seal that deal, can we acquire the second piece? That was a remarkable series of events to get that second piece to expand it. When I started here we did not have that second piece and the ballfield players filled this audience and they convinced the council to tear down the woods and build 3 more ballfields. Don and I sat down and said you know we just can’t allow that to happen. We need to acquire that property to the west and so that all started a conversation with the bank that had the property. But for the housing downturn of 1980 that property would have already been houses. It was all platted and ready to go but the developer lost it back to the bank because of the housing downturn and so all these sequence of events that make Lake Ann what it is today and it’s still not done. It’s not done. Once you can get that trail around there. And if you look at a map and you look at where Lake Ann Park is, it’s within reach of 50 percent of our citizens by a walking trail and they can walk and then walk all the way around the park and the real reason it’s so, such beautiful water quality is because of it’s watershed. It’s only 1 to 1. It’s 110 acre lake and there’s 110 acres that drains into it. That’s it and it has no other development. If it’s, you know we took the beach out at Lake Susan because it doesn’t have a high enough water quality. If a lake doesn’t have that great water quality you don’t have a beach. You don’t have the same. The ball fields are special. People come from all over and they just can’t believe the amphitheater type seating that those ball fields have so yeah you’re absolutely correct. You know so many generations have grown up on Lake Ann even before it was a park so I’ll share that plan with you when it’s appropriate and, but it’s in place. Rest assured that it’s in place. Whoever comes in and acquires those properties, the first thing they’re going to want to do is come say hey what’s the Comprehensive Plan and if they don’t have a suspicion already that the City wants that land they’re being naïve. Hougham: Perfect, thank you. Kelly: Thank you Jennifer. ADMINISTRATIVE PACKET. Kelly: The administrative packet, I’m just looking at the City of Chanhassen tennis court/pickleball locations and where we’ve got 8, 9 future tennis courts. We’ve got Bandimere which should be a sport court. We don’t know what they’re going to be and Roundhouse Park is 1 tennis court and 4 pickleball courts. So that needs to be changed. Other than that anything specific you want to point out on the administrative packet? Hoffman: No. 45 Park and Recreation Commission – July 26, 2016 Kelly: Anybody have any other questions or comments they want to make? Carron moved, Scharfenberg seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 7 to 0. The Park and Recreation Commission meeting was adjourned. Submitted by Todd Hoffman Park and Rec Director Prepared by Nann Opheim 46