01-20-88 Agenda and PacketFt-lt
AGENDA
CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION
WEDNESDAY, JANURARY 20, 1988, 7:30 P.M.
CHANHASSEN CITY HALL, 590 COULTER DRIVE
CALL TO ORDER
OLD BUSINESS
I
PUBLIC HEARINGS
a.Conditional Use
a cres
Variance to the Sign Ordinance tosite directional sign on propertyOffice Park District and locatedNordquist. Signs (DataServ).
allow a 12 square foot on-
zoneal IOP, Industrialat 19011 Lake Drive East,
Subdivision of 2.5 acres into five single family Lots onproperty zoned RSF, Single Family Residential and locatedeast of and adjacent to Minnewashta park$ray approximately lmile north of Highway 5, Schwaba-lilinchel l , appii.cants
Nancy Lee and patrick Blood. propelty located on the northside of TH 2I2 and east side of itt :_-Of , zoned BF, FringeBusiness District:
3
Permit for a contractorrs yard on 13
Wetland Alteration permit
a Class A wetland to construct a driveway through
3, to
uses
3, to
4. Zoning Ordinance Amendment to amend Article V, Sectionpermit video golf and indoor golf course as conditionalin the A-2, Agricultural Estaf.e District, J"h" t;y;;;;:
5. Zoning Ordinance Amendment to amend Article V, Sectionpermit golf courses as a conditional use in tne alZ,-Agricultural Estate District, City of Chanhassen.
APPROVAL OF I4INUTES
OPEN DISCUSSION
Comprehensive plan, Transportation Chapt.er, Mark Koegler.
Zoning Ordinance Amendments Update.
OrganizationaL ltems
BUS INESS
6.
7.
8.
NEW
ADJOURNMENT
2.
b.
4
C,rY oF
EHINH[SSEI[
STAFF REPORT
"(. oo*", Jan. 6, 1988
C.C. DATE: Jan. 25, i988
CASE NO: 87-10 SIGN
Prepared by: Olsen,/v
Fz
C)JLL
ko
tdFa
fi.t'"": - l-1
Mrcl.l.-'----. -
1e01r Lake Drive Easr (cpr site) ilL;t;;tlz
tit!:"L:'i . I
PROPOSAL:
LOCATION:
*t/-tt.tz - -
APPIlICANT:
the Size of On-Premise DirectionalVariance Lo
S ign
Nordguist Sign Company
312 West Lake StreetMinneapolis, MN 55408
PRESENT
ACREAGE:
DENSITY:
ADJACENT
AND LAND
ZONING :IOP, Industrial Office park
69.3 acres
ZONING
USE:N-
s-
E-
$t-
IOP ;
Eden
Eden
RSF;
Redmond, ABC and the
Prairie
Prairie
Chanhassen Estates
Press
I{ATER AND SEWER:Avai lab1e to s i t.e .
PEYSICAL CEARAC. :The majority ofmaintained as a
the sitse isprairie.
I99O LAND USE PLAN:Industrial
open space
.l:.:a,.
lJu, a I
6700
6800
6900
7000
--7tOO
-72OO
-730C
-8tOO
7300
-77OO
7800
7900
-8OOO
((
RD
L OTUS
It
LAKE
8:Jil3
2
21RoII
oo
@
@
ootoo
ilo oo
aOI
I
I-{
\
i \
3
\E-
oa
2A<l
Iiol
-&r{
PI
AI(E
IAtstt
- a2()0
a300
7400
oo(DI
-?600
I
I
RSF
((
Sign Variance
January 6, 1988
Page 2
APPLICABLE REGULATIONS
Section 3 of the Sign Ordinance permits four on-premise direc-tional signs which shall no! be larger than 4 square feet.
The ordinance also states that off-premise signs shall be limitedto situations where access is confusing and traffic safety couldbe jeopardized and that the size of the sign shaI1 be approved bythe City Council and shall contain no advertising (Attachment #1J.
ANALYSIS
The applicant is proposing three on-premise directional signs tobe located on the former CPT site which will now be the site ofDataserv. The on-premise direction signs are propose<i to be I2sguare feet (Attachment #2). The Zoning Ordinance only permits onsite premise directional signs to be 4 square feet and t.heref orethe proposal reguires a variance to the Sign Ordinance. Theapplicant is also proposing one off-prernise directional sign witha square footage of 12 square feet. The off-premise directionalsign wiLl be reviewed by the City Council along with Lhe requestfor 12 square foot on-premise directional signs. The ZoningOrdinance requires the planning Commission to act only on theon-premise directional sign size and not the off-premise sign.
The Planning Cominission and City Council must determine whetheror not there is a hardship to approve the variance to the size ofthe sign (Att.achment *3). An undue hardship is defined as ,,the
property in question cannot be put to a reasonabLe use if usedunder condiEions alLowed by the official controls. The plight ofthe landowner is due lo the circumstances unique to the propertyand not created by the landowner and if granted will not aller theessential character of the locality',.
The purpose of an on-premise directional sign is to direct trafficto the visitor, employee and shipping and receiving areas. Theexisting industrial sites in Chanhassen (Victory Envelope, UnitedMailing, etc.) have directional signs which meet the four squarefoot maximum size required. The directional signs contain justdirectional wordage (Employee Parking ->, etc.) and not the nameof the conpany (AEEachment *4). This meets the definition of a<iirectional sign. The proposed on-premise directional signsinclude the name of the company and its logo (Attachment #5).Staff feels the narne should be removed and reduce the sign area tomeet the maximum square footage.
The size of the site is unique from existing industrial sites inthat it contains close to 70 acres. The size of the site could beconstrued as a hardship whereas Iarger directional signs arenecessary. Directional signs are not. meant to be read from a longdistance, but rather as the traffic enters the site. Therefore, alarger sign is not necessary. What might actually be needed in
r
Sign Variance
January 6, 1988
Page 3
the future, as a result. of the size of t.he site,
on-premise directional signs over the permitted 4
is addi tional
s igns .
RECOMMENDAT I ON
Staff feels that a 4 square foot on-premise directional sign is
adequate for the subject site and that the company name and logo
should be removed from the sign as required by the ordinance.
Staff feels a hardship does not exist and that a variance to the
4 square foot maximum size is not justified. Therefore, staff
recommends Ehe following:
"The Planning Commission recommends denial of the sign variance
request to permit 12 square foot on-premise directional signs."
Should the Planning Commission feel the variance is justified
t.hen they should state the hardship and grant the variance.
ATTACHMENT S
I
2
3
4
5
6
7
Section 9-3-I, (2) a & b of the
Proposed on premise directional
Section 3-1-3, VarianceTypical directional s ign
Site plan
Letter from appl icant
Application
Zoning Ordinance
s ign
{
a txrn{j'pa' u* d u ui:
n& .s .t! d6Encd and
m!. uta d (ktclopmdrl'
lcd b, dE front. 3rd' or
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osn to consl,ud'd es to b' " int's'61 po'uon of th'
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of it' mcubct!.,.t-r i'-Io. iJ it,to ot adrd. Plrrrlrllr to Mbiatr srrtrr" il6''!''
srH d rh Eofll rh.l hrlt dE tolb-itl !ou.rt:
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iiiffi*,"ffio, t* G"dion' co'E.'dio' tr!'di@' q ,o'irtc6'!."'
bv oublic utilitb o, surkipd 6 0t!6 lpvt'Eaul .trlcict' ot u&rSround
: : r,?*;;.*t l' ireo or renr mooirrioa a disrributioo svrro*ffif,ffisffi'm;6*rg;ffi.Effii'ffiiCtiiii'riG erce tv il r')' tr -v o<" c usao'ca si" oltt,'
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WAREIOUSINC: wrtlhoulua 6 u' c@Elrcj'l 'ror{E
of rtradlIdiE rd
ffiilLi3ffi;, ."-"".tioD' or w"hdt 'r dcrrtrld h u s' D'p'n-
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lifrrno *^ta*t,,tD: Th'r tcr of hDd rrom which v&r dr'irB irul
::E i $Si""r:1*.nd tvpcs r.' 4' r' 6' 7 md 6 In thG c'!' or Y!r'
i-itii"i.i* i p"urt "'r'it dc'irn'tod 's
Llc d pood uls clss th'll also
It-rJtfrfri,lro. tvp' 2 edlrds st.r[
'rro
b d'6cd l cL]t A rsl'ld
lii'liiIi"ir* " ','-.t'i! r.d 's
publt *'r'': to dt crt'or rh.l it a'
"-rcfrc "po.-rtt.
tm v!" floodphb of lh' strD'
:n:,:":n'xi *x*ffi#"*flH'.i"'J* xfi:
.d .s bli. vrlcft.
ifoiiiirl-uunserY: An arr.rpris' *hkh cooou* th' whoks'l' of
J'r."II-*.-* ii" - *tll 13 "c'trotv ird3 ducctlv t'lat'd to drcir car rad
',,ii"-,.""-.. ttr, nor includmg Do*c quD'ntal such as g'3 or grpoc
t wtrmo*.rt .rd f.rs implcn'ots)'
iil-<iL-eic-E TR Dr, fubtslrm'oB a Dl'rt of budo6t pnn'dlv 'q'srd
riisffiH*:ffi.ffi*ft*H"J
S,$SFffiet a"n,t*"loN sYsrEM (wEcs): Anv d6'rc' ther i! d'!it!'
f, ["J*ii'Jr,up",..-"""1']:{fi f*:*.:iffi ,".fl "S
{.lto llf.rr.d to b, trch 'Ddmo lrl[lcr tl
L'r,ili*;mmtE#*,*:"ffi*lffi1H#.
buildins ot ehidr i form! a P'n'
ii6i-ju6rrox, e,,v sgn or pan ot a $En wl$ch GharE's phvsicrlpcrriotr
il]r'i;;;; ariffi; of u'hid 8iv6ot visu'rimPrdsnn orsuctl movc'
SELlnffiBit^tt' "
esn' ro'rt'd oo th€ e'!mi!'!' *hich b".. rh' ,'.mc
"^i,- -ra.- "l tlE oc.lDrnt of dlc buildinl d prarrrd
;i;N: frilti tiloN: A r.Gtrodin! stn 6'crcd upon r por'' po.. or
Iii- l;il- -"o"n ro rL.r drc boltom 'dtE
of tlr' iip dirphv rrt i' Githt
;T-;-.;il;;; lround dcvaso.l u $G b'!' of rh' i!tt'
l"ic'[';iihii:;i 6-d;qr.d so . .".b' movabr' rrorn o." roc"ioo
i;l*.iJ:'Jfiil ;ipo-.i.ouv "rr"'a 'o ' buuin!' 'uuc{u.' or th€
iil'i]'puvrre ser-e oR EvEt{T: A EEPo'rrv 'it! 'dEni'iot erivrtc'"l ;;-;;;'"r."v 'udr " "hour' 5rrd"' "strlF 5d6" rod u€ uk'
iilLtr-Iiln,L;a $dr 't p'clri:' ctmivrlt' burn' tr"tc nilhB'
S.t$5S[ffi"T^t""j]T; fi ffi -,.* &Frd6t upo'.'
-U. L'r---ppon.a -hidr D'ois[ton lhri t2 hdtc' fft'tl tod buildiit'
ii;i-:riir-'rjsrere, e i![ Fntinn! to r't' t'lc c Lrr of rh' P'tdi"''-.ii J"iii J tt* p'*i!G'' o'r *hi'n uE rip u b'tt'd'
Liti]ir:iir' i"i' o.t s l'ornt d 6 rrr' roor ot r udrdins d Yntch !
ilil ;;il;; . burEq (" tupeon "id 'hidr P,oFdr 'bo* th'lit"l?iiidi,.r ? tu, T"I.: *,:::X,?i :Hy:..x$".,#.
9'2-15 SiSnr on adJaenr non<.sid€rrial proFrly shall bc posirion.{ so thal
thc moy is no! visabh from rcsrdcnial us.s or disrricls rlong adjommg
si& and Ear rard p.opcrty lin r. /
9-2-16 Exc.E for farm buildings. al l.ar on{ .ddtl!. ign ilmtiryint rh.
.orr €r addr.ss shrll b. rcqui.cd on cacti princip.t buitdins, acccssory
buildint, or mail box6 i,l .I dirtricB. T]E trurlb(i3 shall b. sr h.st
rhrlc indl6 in hcight.
$2-17 No isrr dhcr th.n Sov.rnncnol iiSIt, lhdl b..rldrd or rrta..d upon
ay publt nt!q. ridrtof-*ry o. nrblt cagda|l, o( pmi.a ov6 puuic
propaty.
9-2-18 Thc dposed upnth8, ntpdslrlreuG and/or ba.tidc of a[ sigr $.I
bc p.inr.d e nartr.l colo. s d r3 li8tu blu. rry, bmwn, or whitc.
unLss h can b. illulll.t d rh.t ludl Fn of rhc sitn d.rigacd a D.inEdh .noth.r Eatm6 i. irtcgrd to thc ov.rall d..ign ot fi. si8n.
9-2J9 AU D<Edrcnt.igo. shdl b. d.siSn d lrd coajruq.d ia a unifortr
rD.rna and. io th. c cd poeribL,3 e int gr.l p.n of thc buildinS,s
&chit crurE. Mulri{cnarr commdcial eod indu.lri.l buitdiaSs $rIhrtl udfo.m siEr.!c.
SECTTON 3. PERMITTED AND PROHtsITED SIGNS93-l P.r6incd Sig . Th. follorin! d!r..r!.lloxGd ?ithoua r D.mi:l. CaaDeiSn SLns. C5nFit! !i8nr, troa ac..dint 2. rqu.rE fc.i." _ TIE si8, mur con[iD ahc n-na of rh pcrroll rcsponsib]. tbr ruch
rign, ard G.r p.rson.halt b. Esponsiblc for iri rlmovel. Sudr irnt
Ct.ll rdah for m lort.( thrtr .cv6r.y-fi!,r Ot d!,! in any c.tctl-
drr y.ar. Th. City $eI havc O. ri8hr ro rfinovc .nd dlsroy dg!!!.d conforni4 to dE Ordin.nc..2. Di..dional Si8r!.
A. Oo-Prunir. SigD!. Sh.[ noa bG lsrg.r rh.n four ({) 3qu:rE f.a.
ThG nllnbG of sitDs str.! aot rrccld four (a) unlcss apprcv-
.d by drc City Coutrcil.B. Ofr-Pltlnir. Si8G. Sb.ll bc [Eft.d to drurtioor lrlE! r6s
b corfuiir8 .d tr,.ffE !.f.ty couu bc j.oprrdizcd or E{ic
couu b. in.pproprirt ly tDui.d rhroud rcsidartial n !.n.
Thc siz. of lhc si8r slEI bc .I'provd by tl1. City Council lrd
shdl conr.h m advlnisia8.,. Hdiday Sifii. SiSa' .. dbhF which codr.in or del.t a BBr.t
Dcnainiry to . rcli8bu!. nrrirnd, nal. o. locd holiiay &d rlo
orh6 matrcr .nd ehi.h .rc dirphy.d for r p.iiod rDi to .rc..d
r.vcnty-fivc (7t dtyt h .ry crladr. F!.4. Infornarional Si8B. Informrionrl 3knr m! s.G.di'f sirn.n (16)
!qu&r fca.
5. lnqr.l Si8nr.
6. Mdor tucl Dric! dlEl & FDircd on rtc prlEit6 of rly
.urdEobih !.wi(l s.ailo only if srd sigrs &! rffu.d ro rhc fucl
pumF cr aI! m.d! er itu Aral psn of a ground br Eofilc d gytoo
bu.ioc!6 igD orh.rsit FEitrd h dla zonirE di.ri(l. Motor fud
pricc 59n! .ffud io . fud pur[p S.ll aoa ac..d four (4) jqur!
f..r ir sig! dilplzy e'ta- Whar $d 5i8Ls eE rni& an itu 8r.t pen
of r ftr66ndin! hEin... i!n, r[c dttr dilpt y rrc &yor.d to th.pri.. cdnpoocd ir.[ nd .r.!cd thiny (3O) Frctor of Ih road
lifn display aft{ of rh. siSn.7. Ndrcllat! Sigr[. Na8@t.r. si8ns Dot.xc..ding rwo (2) iquirc
f.a.
8. Nofl-llluni t d Con.Eucion l&os. A oonilluhin r.d coosr.uc-
tkh siSu confuad to th. sit! of tlE coo ruction, dtcratiofl or
rcp.n. Such sitn mun b. rEmovcd wirhin onc (l) y.ar of &. drl.
of issuanc. of (h. firr buildin! pcrDh o.r tl. iit :nd E.y bG .x-
t.nd.d on aIl annual basi!. On rigl shal b. Frnitt d for ach
nr.q thc proicc .buts. Commcr€iel .td irdutrial si8Ds may not
cac.cd ,ifty (50).qu.!r f.Gi in rila d!., and E id.odrl conitruc-
lioo sisDs may no( crc..d te.ory-four (2A) tqurt fcn in sig! &c..9. O.S.H.A. Si8ns.
10. Public Si8ns. Si8ns of a public. noncommscial natur. .r6r.d by
r Sovcmmdtrl cntity or r8€ncy including safcty si8n3, dircctionrl
riS to public faciriti.s, t!.sprtsing sigtrs, trrtfi. ri8ns, sit,ri in-
dicati.g scaak q hiarori(, poiat of ior.r.3, odnorid pl.qu6
rltd lhc lit..
t l. Rummag. (C.rrtr) S.L SigxB. RuaE sE s.L isrs rlEI bc Emov-
.d wilhh t*o daF !fr.r tlE .ad of dE leL rrd shall nor cxc..d
nv. (5) squart f..r. RumDrS. r.lc sig,t! rhJl not bc lo....d i'l lny
publt ri8ht.f{ryt. Tt City $.ll h.vc rL ]iSha !o rnotl! rDd
dlrdoy sigat nor confontriry !o $i! Ordir.E. Tll Ciry mry &.it. fc. of
'l.m
F dSr r.mov.d by th. Ciay.
12. Tqnporry dd.iopmat pmjcct .dvdriiint ifnt .r!€tcd for 6!
9urpos. of scllina o. prunotin! .ny nodn.iddrtid projc.1, or .ny
r6id.ntial proicct of Ln (10) or mcr dwdtin8 uojrj. shrll b. pcr-
Eitt.d subjcd ro rtr folbrio8 rcaulaiionr:A. Nd mor! dun tro (2) $rd iSnr rrull b..Ioe.d pcr pror.cr.B. Sndr i! srrdl orrly bc loc.cd abra nr..B rh.t proyidc
primry :c$!. ro $. p.ojc€ sit .C. Sudr sisn rhall bG.ct bsct mt lc.s th|[ lwarty'fivc (25) f..i
from any prop.ny lioc, arl<l stdl bc firmly rnchorcd lo (hc
gourd.
D. No srcn ti8o rhdl bc locrt d do..r 6rn rro hudrld Om)
fca from .rl .dlriDt r6it nri.l de.llinf uon. druch. or
5chool which i. 'Dr. p.n of fic p.ojcq bcin! io rdr€ni..d.E. Su(i !i$a shdl aot bc loc.t d doscr ft:,| lwo hundrd Gm)
fca from rny oth.r sud 3i8n loc.t d on tlrc aam. iilc of rhc
F. SiSr disphy .ra lhdl noa ac..d rifty-four (6a) {urtt fc.r,
:ltd lh! h?idr of irdr ritnt th.ll no. .rccd fifr.o (lJ) f.ct.G. Sudr s!:nt sh.ll bc rlmot.d el! rh. Fojccr bcio! .dy!ni]
.d t .i!ht pc?c.nr (&)i) cdnpl.rcd. For rh. purpor. of rhit
r.crion, rhc Frcmtrac of Foj.Er comDlcrjor th.ll tj. &r.r
''nincil
by drvidirta th. numtd of de.Uin! uniB ,old in rh.r.ra6.i.l
're,er
by !i. rot t n@b< ot @!. .llorrd i! o.
l. Advcnisinr Si8B.2. eavcnisini oriustotss itfi on d attrch.d ro quirmanr sudr a,
scEiuuct railcn eh.r! si8ni[8 ir . princip.l u!. of rhc .quip
mant oo ciah6 r tmporrry a psmmcar b8ir.3. Mdior itnl !d Fbs[in! Signr aclpt rinc.rd Erp.r.orl! igit.rd blrb.r pol6.
,1. Proi€ainr 3irru.5. Roofsig . Excrpt rhat r busin.rr .i8n mry tE pt a.d c| OcrDof,
frch or m.rqu.. of r bo0diru piovikd ir do.r nd Grrai rbovc
thc hish..i d.vrriotr of fic boildh& crdudiu dimEy!A. Roof si8ltt rhrn bc 6oroo8hb. s.c,ur!d .rd .ncho.rd ro rli€
6'an.. of rhr building ovs whid rh., rG conjaructcd .nd
i.Lr rrurtr ant {rcLr r!Eo.{r*ay tmc aao shau br rrrmtv
anchored to th. gound. 9-9-2
5) Sudr ritn CEI a y bG corsrrudcd qlr of ,od,na..i.h.rd bc n-Jr-Enir.t d.6) Such i8,{ . bG.rmov.d rir (6) months lf&r ltc i8n'
har b.at crccrcd 6rd dcvchpc rDry !d sDDly fo. r r.c-
ond offrcdis.. dir!.lio"rt st! ;..EiL__ ' 9917) SLn coD,l, sh.I iodud. rhc E c of $tdivLion.rd rdirldioo aflo? ooly,
PrDhibitcd SitB. Th. fo[oeitu dgo. .Ir ,f,ohibir.d:9-3-2
Bul
tcd
rd
n,
(64)
d8,
buildill ofrE.dIir
sEcTr r
9-12-l -tE
9{12-aE
sEcTl {
iadu nal, !
}lGl 4.o. 'll
"r.
sEcTr {
A[ d8 fo
'7. :
'-t
$.12-3 -
B. No podioo of roof 3i8 !hr[ at nd b.yord drc Fiphrryof tha roof.5. BuiD..r d3rl, *hi:h dy€rri!! rD Givity, buiogl Fodud 6.6-
vic. D bn!6 pmduc.d or coidu.td an lhc prair.. upo rhidr
lhc i8r i3 loc{d. W}.r. dr. oryE 6 L!.or of drc Dnoirc. ir
taatioa r ad aaaara, srch iilnr Ery ri'Bri! b pha for nd mor._ ttEr thiny (30) drF iDm thc drc of e.(.rEy.7. WaI cnpht .t. Po.r.bb SiSB a..Da s tEiEidd i! Sdioo q2-I0 of tiit
Otdintrc!.
9. lii8rr shich.lE i.ct.d @ 8G.., fcac6 6 utility pob.
10. Hatrc oeup.tior isLr ac.!'r fa d. ir.nrifi.rtio[ jrn, TI,E itn
m.y nd dcaat two (2) lquara fcct id arcr.
SECTION ,(, NONCONFORMINC USES
Wh.a dE priffip.l ui of lrnd b hidt, ioo.dforEi[a und6 rE Cl,r!hrl..o
ZoinS fuiare, dl siniry c EoDc.d dlE ir ooniuEioo xirh thri Lrd,idl t considcEd coforDirt if rtcy r,t h c.oplirne wfih al! sUn p.ovi-
x
.iorE for thc E6r rBtridir€zonhg dirlld in sli(i dr D.i!.iFl ur. ir dlow.d.
SECTION 5. AGRTCULTUN,AL AND RESIDENTTAL DIITRICTS.
ThG folowirs isrs lI! .I,ord by Fon i! 6c A-1, A-2, RX, RSF, R-4, R{
.rd R-12 disnicB:}J-l Public .nd lnninrtiood Sitor Or Irorrnd br p.ofrh 6 i.I .i8n,
ror cxc..ditrg twalry-folr (24) squrt! f.a of silr dilphy rlta" .hdl
bc p.rEitt d on th. p[!mir.. of ..y Frbtc or innitudood prop.rty
tiving th. nada of tba facility ard oaturr of tlE uc ad oaauDaDcr.
Sud ifE rh.I b€ lo..t d { L.i Ed (10) fEr fron rry FopEty hc,
.od !tra[ trd .x..rd frE (t f.< h hcilhl.
9-5-2 D6dord(na ldatifi(.rid Sg,t. Oa d6,lloD|!.at iladf(.rio dE,
nc sc!.dira rvcnry-fgtll (?4) squlrt fcd of 3i8! dbpL,.r.., lhaU
b. p.rmittcd for !.ch mijor .atranc. inio loy r8idcndrl ddclopmart
of tco (lO or morr dw.lli{ uoirr. Fa tb. purpo56 of rbb t ctioo,
"nlaior .nEanc." shdl bc ddln.d a tbc illla!.dior of &y lool rE .t
s.rvinS th. itarrifid dd.bE.n wirh .ry rrrcri.l or coll.ctor tula
so dc.ignaacd in Anidc vl, Scrioo 25. su.i .itn5 rhdl b. b..ad so
a nor to conflict pili traffia viiibility fi sraa mahtcoiuc! opcr!-tio . .nd sh.I bc r..1rrcly lnchorld lo th. sound.
SECTION 6. NETGHBORHOOD BUSINESS AND INSTITUTTONAL
DTSTRICTS
Th. folowing dSns lhdl bc rlosGd by Faia io .ny OI n &l Dinricrl
9+l Crourd lrt Profil€ ABin..3 Si8trs. OG 8round br profilc burin..s
or inqirurional iiln nor crc!.din8 twclty-four (2/l) rqu.r. f..r of sigt
dasphy .IEa lhau b. Frbfttcd p6 lr.tt fronlrac. wi.h a mrrjlnum
of ax,o lucb .i8rrs p.r lot. Su(t rit,r' *r[ b. siln b.eEd .a lc.!t tcn
(10) f.tr from .ay Fop.rty [oc lld ilurl oor ac!.d fivc (5) fcci ia
hcishr.9+2 W.I Busi!.!s Signt. OrE wll b{ri&.. i8tr sh.[ bc p.rDi!.d F s:!a
front.Sc for.ad bu.incis occupant withh a buildirt. Thc aotd of sllu.{ mounr.d sign dirphy r'!! $rll nor.xc!.d t n (t0) F.r of ti€
br.l rr.z of ..d builditr3 *.[ updl which th. 3ips .rr Eouni.d. bur
Do indivilu.l buift!. 6iSn rhdl .rc..d rx.ary{our C4 !qu& f..r
h sign diiphy u!.. A rrl bu.inca iiSE .h.I trd hc Eoiror.d upon
rhc r.tl of .Iry buildint rhich f.c!. &y djoinila R..il.nrid Ditrii
withou ar inrcrvaniq public $rc6. ''-'
SECTION 7. HICHWAY AND CENERAL EUSINESS DETRICNi
Th. folb*irts risns ihdl bc e[ow.d by p.ruth h ]ry BH, BC or BF Di!rri6:9-7-l Ground Lo* Profdc B6ir6r Sisrr. Or lrouid lru Fonlc buin...
sitlo ih.ll bc pctmitl..] F rula fro r!c, widt . DuiEuD of lro (2)
luch ngn! F lot. Sudl lignt ih.I rEr.rc!.d .ithiy (&) qu.rE fc.i
h liar disphy l,.. 06 t trlr.E lhll cis[r (t) f..a h h€irhr. Such
3i8nt 3hdbc bc.tcd .r L.!. l.n O0) f..t from rot Fopcny liE. lo
tb cr!.!lr!ll .try h conEio mo'l rh.n rwo (2} fccrEdirS burin.tt
3ipt. vltrhct rrd dlB .rt prlon c lrout! br D(ofL it!r,q-2 Pro. Buir!3r Stn. OE ryb6 bod!.r. irr. nd adiof dl.y{qrr
(64) lqllar! fca h iilD dispLy r... !tr tl b. FEirEd F ha A pyioo
budn st iln gtrr.r th.r i y-fou (5.) rqu.It fc.r" boi .qu.l ro d
k$ th:a !i&ay (?ti) rqu& f.a, tlrry b. p.rEind .fts t.qrriA3 r con-
dirio..l u5. Fmh. Sud dtlt tlull t locrEd r t rr !a O0) f..r
froE.ny proD. , linq .nd *dl rot Grccd ar! , (20) fca ir tdnt.
lo m (.rc sb{l rny lo,t codrin ffir lttla rro (2) ftt dr'di[! hi!...
dtnt, ehcrhs iud| ri!. rr! pyho c alouDal br p.of& .itnr.9-7-l Wdl au!tu 15 SilDr. OE rr! budtr.. i!tr.bI b. D.rEir.d E ir.d
fmnt|Sc for c.ch bulinca oc.up.ot withh . buildint. fhc aord of dlr.! mqr dl ilrl dbpLy rr . O.ll mr.r..rd ffe..n (t5, Fr.!r of
dE .ord lr.r of UE buildq *dl uDo ?hi.t .i. .itr. r,t Douar.d.
9-12-4
o
iasr
Cott
ri:
&il
p
)F
!tl. I
Setrta.
a.
a.
;
a.r
t;
tioo
2
SECTIONlGl.l Par
rtt - Pcro'-_ tin
lcl-2 ^c.
lc
9-12-J
lG l-3
.dL-,i*.E+$.:l
-;
*
.l{.
JI.'
.t
I
]-'
*
:
!-
j
.:
':
i
r
tI
i
i
i
I
I
I fonh in Chap(Gr 4, of- tay tt &{md.d,'arc
3r ro thc stat 's Ebc-
Ell bc undc4rouni.
Elmificd inywhcr! hat
'. r.tularbll' appli.ablc
.pprov.d Dcacloprnar . i a.i by dividing th. runb.r of
buildirSs consrucrcd ni )or.sidcndal proic.t by th. rot l
numb.r of buildiq stca in th. approvcd Dcv.lopnmt Pl.n
13. T.rnponry rlal csr.t. signs whicb adv.nis. rhc salc, rlDral or krs. 9-7-4
of rcal csraE subj.d io thc folto*int spccinc iooi:A. Onrr.I !. Ilal dal. siga rdvcnising thc aaL. rcdal oi lcasa
of rh! prcrir.s upoo *hidr rh. sigo ir lo.1tcd.l) OrE nonilluminarcd siSn ir pcrmi&d Fr rr.d frool.tc2) Sitn display ar.a shau rot cre.d twdvc (t2) lquaE fctlpc sign on propc.ry contrininS l6s than tO acr6 in arte,
.nd rhiny{wo (12) squac fc.t p6 i8r on Drop.rry con-
taining l0 o. mor! acr.s.
Chanhassen Zoning Ordinance pagc Elcvc!
No iodiyitud bui a iSn ilul .*.rd !i!hy (a)) lqul! fc.r i. rtodisphy ar.a. A *Li jincr li,o !|., b. mounrcd upm ray wrU -of
. pnocipal buildinr:
D.v.lopmc[ Id.fltificrrion SiFlt. OrE dadorrrlr i!.alificarim d!D, <u'
nor crcc.ding ir.y-four (6,{) lqu|t! fcd of.i8[ di.pLry .Ia, 3hdl tp€rmitt.d for cad mrio. srmtE! irio atry .on.Ecial dcvalopir.at
of thE (l) or mor! buildinS!. Ffi thG purpor.! of ihi. s.dioa, ..nr-
jor corrarK!" ih.ll b. d.fitrcd is t,ic incrlcclioll ot my lo..t o, collcc-la nr.a rcrvinS thc kr.nrifi.d d6/.loEncat l,ith rly fficri.l or col-Ldor slr.d so d6ian ild in Anict. Vl, S.crioo 2j. Sudr iiSDt rhrlbc lo.ar.d so 6 oor ro conflid rith t rrfic vilibility;, *..r
licicdt rEovnncrt of
Rr !h:ll correin *ords
sudr ar "S.op", ..C.u-
I lo dir.d rr.ffic 6 rh.
- .y rba b. iDumiuEd_ .lj rcquir. . pcltnia.
,_h*curivc day!. No
'anEd duriq .fly c.l.$-
ltirl.d and l@t in a& rr. lonld, uns.tc.
aitld a Epl.c.d by thc
r lrhi<i lhc rign i.n&.
om.ny buildiry un-. €ar approv.d by thc
J.crcd. p,rccd or mrir-
wirh any .l.cl.ic litht,
' imiL, dcri;.. *hch-- pcrnit. Th. pcnDn
lala. No m6! lh& lhtl.
! ; ftoD b.inS dttd€d_ i,3 th. virior of fic
Lrll rn offici.l Eaffic
r ar visibh from pubtic
,) No slch ii8n shal crcc.d t n (lO f.Gt in ov.r.[ hcith SECT
nor bc locar.d l.ss rhan r.n (10) f.a from any Thc fo[oein8 i8ni .haI bc dlo*.d by Fni! in any IOP Diqlrictlin€9-E-l Crouod Low Proflc Burir!$ Si8n. OrE gound b* p.ofilc busineta) AU tcrDponry rcal.sratc sitnt shdl bG rcrnov.d v sisD rha[ b. petuitl.d p.r sarlcr tronlrgc,wi6 r 6.riDurr of two (2)rcv€tr (, dlys followint siL. I.ar, or rcnt.l of luch iiFs Fr lot. Such itn! shdl rbt ac..d cithty (g)) squ|r! fcrai[ siEr display alta noa ba grat6 rhrl .idr (t) fca h hcirhr. SudrB. Oft-prcmis. rs.l 6Lr. !i8Ds adv.nisin8 th. !alc, rc al or srSns shdl b. lo..cd at kast r.n (10)f..r from lny tnop.rry liD.of Busincss and lndusrrial buildirgs:9-E-2 Wall Busid6s Signs. OtE wdl bllsin.ss siSn sh.I b€ Fmittld p6 rrcal) On nooilluminat€d off-prcmis. sign !i.I b.fronrat.for €ach busilcss occlrprot *irhb e buildin3. Thc rot.j of.ltpa buildins.eaI mdrDt d itn ditplay .r!a shrl not !rc!.d fiftc.o OJ)2) such si8rt shal only b. pdmitt€d in burircss ard torel .I!a of dr buildi8 e.! upql ehin (h. jisDt arEdustrial dtrricB and on prop.ny locarcd *irh rh. sam No indivirual busincs. sito shdl .rc!.d .ithty (tO) rqu:rE fca in.ignsubdivisioo or dcvclopmcllr as ahc buildiflS bcinr di.play !r.a. A wr[ buiiD.!. lign m.y b. moutrr.d upa &y wrll of. principd buildint.3) Sud signl Cl.I nor bc bc.rcd clos6 rhrn rwo hundrld 94-3 Dadopn nr ld.ltifi.rdcr $8r.. Olt derdo@ar i!od6..tin ltn.(2m) fcd from any ofi6 3udl si8, loca!.d on rhc s.m.ror crc..diry nircly (S) squm f.q of slp disphy .r!., $rI b. pc.-rid. of rhc $c.t.nii.d for.rct maior.atrarE iito an,lndustid Officc Part of lhr!a) Sr8n Display tu r shal rot 6c..d lbirry{*o (32) !qu.r.
fc.r, and thc hci8ht of sudr 5i8ns shal not cxcc.d fifr€.n io.cntnnc." sh.[ bc dditrcd .r dlc nErs.cion o, .tly [r,c.l, collcc-
(3)or no.. prilcipd buildiogt. For $. Durpos.3 of thit ..6io!, ..!t|,
(lJ) fcct lor or an riai s[ra lc"rvirrg thc idcntifi.d d6/clop6anr drh any rlt.ri.l5) sudr sittll ihal bG Emov.d withitr s.vc! (r)or coll.dor ll..r so d6ianat d h thil Ordin&c.. Such igrl! shdl b.ur8 dE l.ar or salc of€ighty p.rrcd (t0 )ofrtlc buildin8 hot6d $ as tror b conftid wirh Erflr vtibiliry or ttla eaintGarrccfloor spi.r which ir L advEnisin& or wiihiD twclvc (12)oF.tiorB, alrd shdl b. s.srcty rrchor.d ro rh! lrood.month5 from lh. drac r p.rmiris isird, ehichcvE comc!
maint.nanc. opantion+ .d CrlI ba '..rrtlt, .rdrortd to thc t ootrd.ION E. INDUSTRIAL OFFICE PARI( DISTRTCTS
' Unc rhan a distaoc.' aba.t. No si8tl shdt
.i a c srictc nl,nbc
:'' Din.d lhar prEvarrs
fir! .s.apc. No lipr
.?e rhal rh€ f.c.3 .rc
,rn8 lhc fac6 crcc.dinS,' id.s addcd loslrh.r
a for $ar dtrid.
€ Posidoncd so rhar
llllfi cls alons adjoinint
firsr. SECTION 9. CENTRAL AUSINESi DETnICTC. Of-Pr.mbc &cclion l sign! which sho* dirccaion ro n w Thc foDox,itu iiSDs str.I b. rlbp€ri t, pcthit h rh. B-3 Di!ari6:
r.3*lcndal dcvcloDm.nts: 9-$l wdl Bu.in ss sto. Or. r.il hdrllrr dtn rhdt tc paail.d !.r rrcdINTEIYI. To .lro* Ctort t rrn rgnegc, for rlsidartiaj d6/do,. fron!.8c for .ad b$ir.ss oc.trp.r! Iirhh : buildiu. Ttr. roa.l of 5[m.n!, lo familiaria tlE publt wrlh &. ncw d.!.topmcnr. s.I mornrld d8n ditphy aE lhrll troa acc.d fifta (1, pcrc.ar of
I ) Sudr siSn Cr.I only b. Fllnincd alou major an.nab .nd th. totsl afta of tlE builditrg y.tl upq| shidr rll .i8Er aI! moulrGd.
collcctors as id.trtificd in lh. Comprchcnsiv. Pl.[. No individual buitcar nga shall.rc..d s ty-foor (6a) rqur! f..r in2) Onlv on. 5i8n F incE.ction and ooc ngn p.r dltclop- riEl displ.y al!z- TIE d6is0 .Dd loc.ri[ of rn bu.io.r ligt in thi3
m.rrr sha! b. EE miu.d. dist ict .t.ll bG in tcqiry wiA dlc FlrDG. lDd in&ar of eir fuiDrE,) siSo display arla shal not .re.d t*dry-four (24) squaE and th. toals 'Ix! obi€.tiv.r of rh. Dowalorm R.d.rcblcctrr pLtr
f.a and th. hciSht of sudr 3i8ns shall nor erc..d rcn ( l0) of lh. City. Cotr.t 8t6in.3r Dislricr iiSrug. sh.I b. uriforEly d..iglcdfca. b b. an intcsial pan of tlrc buildiaS's ardrirccluE lo rvoiO cxccsivc4) Such siSn sh:ll not bc lo.at.d doscr rh.n lw.nryJrv. (2J) siSnat. and to Gnsun a ll.rmonious .pp.annc. $roughoot lhGf.a from any srrc6 ri8hr{t-way lim and sha[ bc finnl, Downtown ar.a.
anchocd to tn. Sround. - 9_*2 BBin.$ Dir.(ory Sbn. OlE Buincs Dir.dory Sit[ rh..[ b. p6rEir-5) S'rdt sitn shal on]y bG.onrucr.d oor of pood mar.riab l6d pG shoppuE ccnrd. Th. dcsEn rd locaion of jud si8r shal bcand bc non-illurnirat.d- co istcnr wirh thc dcsiSn objccriv.3 for watl busin.ss sitD. in rhit6) Such siSn shall bc rcrnov.d six (6) monrhs afr.r ftc si8n ditlri6. Th! maiimum heithr for sudr risrs !ha[ bc ac..nry (20) fca
has b.gl crccl€d 3nd dcv.lop6 may nor apply for a set- - - - 1ni tttlotalsitn dnphy ar.a rh.I lot.rc..d cithry (tO) squeE f..r.
ond off_pr.nir6 dir.ctionel sitn p.f,rni. $9_3 Pidoo guiin6i Sign. OlE plon burincar itll, oq crc..ahg
"irty-fort?) Sign copy shall iocludc tb. llemc of $bdivision and . (61) rquan tca in si8D display er.1 shal b. p.nni(.d pq' toa. Suct
dircctrcn arrow only. si8lrr 3hell b. locacd ar Lar l.n (tO) f..r frcm eny FoFry tiD., indv_r'z Prohibit.d Sitns. Ih. folloerng ri8n. aI! prohibi!.d: shall not crc.d rwmry (2O fcd in h.i8hll. Adr.rxsins Sr8nr. SECTION 10. SONUS SIGN AREA2. Adlcn,srn8 or butin.st si8ns on or anach.d io .quiprhml such ai To arcur.8E d6i8o accll.ncc. lhc marihum tiatr al!e! for cc.r.i[ buiD.$..,sari_lruct trailcB wh.r! siSnhg is e prinopai us. of th. cquip irxlushrl. ard dir!flory 3i! mty b. incrE s.d up ro a auroruru of rca 1t0immt on .ithct a Gmporary c p.mancnr basir. p.tEnl b.s.d on th. o.itinal sign ar.a tntLarioo.3. Mqion ngns ard Flrshing Sigr!,.r..Dr dmc and Emp.raruE sia 9'lGl Cround Profih, fr.. qnding rnd eail sigtr! may bc iucrc.s.d.r __.ard barb6 pol6. followi: .rdrj'
!. Projccting signs. l. wh.fl lh. d8n ir.onru6.d of.otid ymd end ur.r I- ,. Roofsitnr. EE€prthrra businBs risn m.y tE phcld onrhcroof. .olor5. rolvattt 6c . i'r:
rao. or mat_que of r brrldina provdd it do.s nd . ftd abovc 2. wlEr $. agn (crc.pl for sdl isnr) ir irnrlcd in r hrdrc.D.dtnc tuthcar cld.don of rh. burldrn.. clctudini d hndr pl.nt.r.A. RcEf sitnl sh.U b. rhotoushly !..urcd an-d anctrorca o thc SECIION ll. INSPECTION
lranlc. of th. burlding ov.r shidt th.y arl connrud.d & All sito! lb. tvhth ! pe.mir ! Equb.d !h.I t $bjet to intp..rioo by dr._--- -_ - --ca.d- .-._----.--jr&bu!dba otai.i.LL{i.i.-- }-!.----' i^$-Gri- .\.n L--a- D1._B. No ponion of loof ri8ru rha[ dt.nd b€vond rhc Eiohda buildir8 offKid .nry (rdGt lhc tloov.l of .ny i8D dr.r is bt oritrEiD.d io --of rh. root. - .cord.nc. with th. E.i.rdr.nc. provi3iont,ol tht Odin.nc..a. hdtE. itE 'tri.h..lv..rr* & eiyity. bunnd. p6dudort r- SECTION 12. PERMIT, APPLICATIoN. VIRIANCE AND CITYvir .o roi.E pr..!ucd q -,,a""ra - ,r,. p._i_ "_ *r,ii CoUNCIL AppROvAL -rh'itn it rq*d wr"r rhc@cq brb; "r;aD-;;; e-rz-r Ecpr s prcqdcd in sccuon 9j.1, io 3istr ff irr suu.rurc shsr b.taluia ' n- ro-r' {ot "t"' -'v '-.,n . Dh.! ror .or ;;; .'6r;, consrru<rcd, .rrc'.d, rcrodr or cbcar.d urrd. D.rEr h., ru,.riu &trn rpr dtr t'um ,hc \rr. or rz!:nn u-. t i..a W ,1. Liiil-?. $.ll G..rl5_i. ii.ii,.- a.. $ r,.rm,,rd,n s(uon e:.,0 o,,no '',,, *l:i{,X.il}]Hffi:,",'*t:l}Tifti;'nFr.*ndr .ii,:
e- 5.. r:r rr L1r6, on 116. ,..nc.! or urrrry por6. ' .:H:t;f'"t rnd tcl.phoo. numbcr of 'p.itoo m.rior L*lo 14.-.E!rc. s.n. .*n, ,oi "^-.r d aE r.r .:! -.,..-- , c tlcnuficarion $tn. Th. siEn 2. A slc plan lo:caL 3horlng rhc l6don of tor tino. U,rifaio, *r"- _8.
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CITY OF CHANHASSEN
COMI.IUN I TY DEVELOPI,IEIIT OEPARTI4ETIT
690 COULTE R ORIVE
CHANHASSEN, MN 55317(612) 93 7 - 19oo
Si te
Address /-rqrza
I hereby acknouledge that I have read this
application and state that the infomation is
correct and agree to comp'ly with the Chanhassen,llfl ordinances and the St.te of |,linnesota laws
regulating bui I di n9 construction.
Si gnature
Permittee
APPL I CAT ION FI
Subdiv i sion
Lot Bl ock
Section Ni st_
IJORDING ON SIGiI:
Supp o
COLOR SCHEI4E
ORDINANCE SECTION
Use: Pemi tted
-
Setback; Front
Conditional- Si de
llon-Confor ing_ Rear
;N PER'.tITI
NEX:: ALTERATION
-
REPAIR- AODITION- OTHER
'll-l'lounted- Free-standi nq:ZL Other (specify) _ Pennanent-==-
specific llsef / 2ltz*'>,nlry's'
Type of Construction: . tFac(Itaterial Used) Frane42!I!ez{///4
ALL APPL
ORAHI{ TO
SIGN, AN
ICATIONS FOR A SIGN PERI'IIT MUST 8E ACCOMPANIED BY A4/O COPIES OF FULLY OII{EI{SIONED PLiSCALE SIiOXING THE PROPOSEO LOCATION OF THE SIGN ON THE SITE, ELEVATIONAL DRAI{ING'"OF iiiD STRUCTURAL OIAGRAIIS OF SUPPORTS, FRAME, FACE, ANP ELECIRICAL SERVICE.
0o Not l,l rite ln Thi s Spdce
PERI,,IIT ISSUED
TO
me
Address
it Tel . No
'It
ame
Tel . t{o.it
ddress
9n L-->/u
ec!or one o
10nna
a7
toep
I'l I uminated- t{on-Il luminated4-
Kind of Constructlon: ./-'t;?Zttm't*fl
x
I
x
x
AREAEET
=
ight Lbs
q
Ft. t{e i ght
FEET F = SQ. FEET ELEVATIOTIS
= /Z- oRTH
SOUTH
EAST
IIEST
ON THE EXPRESS C OI{DITION THAT ALL d0 R K SHALL 8E OONE I ACCoRDA CE'il IH THE OR INANCES OF THE CI]D
}I ANO THE LAI.,S OF THE STATE OF I{INI{ESOTA.OF CMNHASSE
r.llTHtN 90 0A.BY YS OR AEANDONEO FOR 90 OAYS.
THIS PERI.IIT IS VOID IF I{ORK IS iIOT COIII{EI{(
CIONHASSEN BUILDIT.IG & ZOI{ II.IG OFFICIAI.
{.'
Permi t o.
Date ///&
Permit Fee
Zoning 0istrict
Res. Comr. Ind. publ ic
l{er Existino
CAL L FOR FOOT I NG O COHPLETIONffi
pno g g:t-tgoo
t
TI|. tlolirron of ary *ntr.n colrf $dl consuturc . notrt|on
of thisOrdnlrcc. A !.n cG Cr.lA ..rrc voit rioin orE ( | ) yc.r
following Esuancc unLs srbd.ndd..iior h., b.!n a.fcr b; dEp.orlonc n r.liane rhlrcon.2. A variancc may b.8r.nt.d by thc Bo3d only if ir finds all th.
folloein8:A. Thar rh. titcr.t cnforc.mct|t of thc Ordin n c lrdrld c.us. un-d'J. hardship and p..crical ditfi.ulry.B. Thar rh. h2rdship b.a$.d by Sccid condidor..Dd dr-crmnanc6 *hid & pcculie ro rh. l.rd .lld srru(ruIr irvolvadatd *hich:Il mr cl|.lzct ristic of oa appliaabL to oahar Lrdror srrudur!5 in dE r.nr dinrica.C. Thaa lhc gr.nrin8 of rhc variancc i! Esary fol rhc prts.trr-
_ lirn and cnj{rymc of lubi.rraj prcp.ny riShtr.D. Thrr lhc sp.ciat condidont and circum; cc.r! oor e.on.-qu.ncc of a aclf<raatad hrrdshiD.E. Thar rh. v.riancc pil ror bG nj;riou! !o a .dy€rEly .ff.ct
rhc h..lrh, rrfay or w.tf!I! of dE rcsi{r.nB of $c Cni or rh.rcighborhood wlErcin rh. FoFty ir dturEd .nd rill bc i,kcrpina yith rh.3pirt.Dd ht. of rlE Ordh.nc... A rylrn: f9. rh! Emlbrrry ui. of a sind.-f&ity d*dlia, .. rt*o-feily dw.llitr8 mry ody b. elbycd undc ttr fot6ring
A. Tbr..ir r d.[rooltr.t.d l.cd b...d upoF dirrbility, 4. atltr&oal h.rdthiD.B. IlE..1*dliDq tu. rh. aEnor.ppc.r.rcc of r indc-frtri,
dwcIinS, irctudiB rha orilrt.o.n . of olr drivd.; .rd o;erir dtry.
?y :trd colvcnE{ frc noe rod crnuot rrxl G6r io Fl! of .nrl tr olnc c.trltttrna.l. Rrluleunt of[{rcc! Frlin! &d badir8.Ea. ylE! rlquncd.a. Utilni6 whh tlfcrlncc io loc.rioD .rd.bilir, .Ild co-pri.titity.J. Ecrming, fcminS, rcrceninr, lud.c.gir8 or ;icr f.afi i. . p.6,r.q n.a.by propany.
6. Cornpatability of aprEar.nc!.
Io d.r.mininS ludr.ondiaio[r, sp.ci.t coa3iLr.rior rb.I b. liycaro prot .iiD8 immdi..tdy rdi.cstr proDcnic, froor obj{si;bbvi.?r, ,oi3a, lraffE ard diar ll.triivc ahallqariraic, sairlad rnh
D.ii.l for Nocompli.ncc. If rh. Council d.rb r cooditiotr l ur p.r-
mit. ir .hdl stzrc fitrdin8s rr to $. rrF h ?hid th. popnd u:e jocr
not conply wirt $c q..!d|,d! llquird tly rhb T.tG.
P.imirtcc-. A cotrdjaiond ue Fnir sh.J bc i..urd for . Frriorlrr BG&d aoa fq a panicr r pcrloo.
Raiocation. Fiilura ro comply eith r[y coodirioo n farn ir r condi-lirGrl uE pcrDil" or .tty orhc. viot rioo of liir Tial.' $dl bG. hitdc.Dcamr.rd $all dro coottituta 5utfici.'trt caua fo. tha E Dirrdd of
S T. .dql .: D.pi by dE Ciry Cortril foUoric . Fb6c hc.itu.tpiranon. lt $bdrntirl cooltrudiotr h8 et trla Dlr.. urbiD ocy.., of tE dalc 6 rhi.t lh. corditimd ur Frr|lt ,t !r&t.d" ah.
FlDn b voit .iclDr !h.q olr .pDli..rio6, tt€ Cq|Eil, rftcr rccivin3rEorur.od{ih fr6 ttE ptiori"! C@Eirin, ary .rrad !b F_rn for srdr .ddiriood p6iod .r ir d.lor.pDroFir., r lbc coDdni;urltll n dircoolinu.d fd dr (6) nonrht &! cordirin l ur Fei $rlb@a. l(*i. Thir FoviCoo $.I rItE b coadiidl ua ;6I" taEd
Fio. b rtc cffcrilr! drr! oa lhb Titlc, b! tb n (O Doi pcrioa "Ul.oa bc dc.o.d to @Er!c. unril 6. dfccriva dra. oa 6ir T|d..
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3-2-1
C. S.prraE udliry $rvic!, rrt @r.sEblirh.d (G.t. trtt *rGr,!.?.r, ctc.)D. TIE vrriatrcc xill tror bG iojurious to c.dv.fl.ly.rLGr thch.Jth, satay 6 lrdfllG of rlE r6itctrB of rt 'Ciry or $;
rr.iShborh@d sh.r! dlc FoFty t iNrr.d &d yiI b?Itr keGiDt with dt rpin rd ion6t of riir OrdirE3-l-{ Proo.dur6.l. Fcm. AF.ak.rd applietiod for vrrirE rt ll bc td.d *irt lhZotriry A&ninbEdor m Ecs<riU.a for-". a fc.. s JOTJJ Uigc giry C-oumrl. shaX bc ped upoo rtc rrlog of.D rppl;.i;;
- -r-E rroed may sty. thc appLcalir f.. b uDu3ud ciroror.trc6,,. Hartnt. Upon ric 6lio! of art appcal or rpplic.tio, fo, vlliaE,
rDa zoDrq AdEiriluata ibdl ra a ttrc ard pLa. fa r hatitr!b.fotc rh! B@rd of Adiu$cotr aaa A.pp..b-o $dr e;;l.pplic.tbn, ehict hc.riru $.! bc hd wiririD thitty (:O aiy. .furh..fdia8 of s.i, epp.rl o, eppucaton. er Uc turiaj rtri aorra$rx ncar $ch paasoN ar yi$ to ba h€..d, cithc, in ocrrcn or tv.nomcy or 4g.Dr. Notjcc of $ch b.arin8 shall bc t[riLd nor lcardl.Ir rqr 00) daF befor! U. a& or marirry o rrrc pcrscn yrro fifIt .pD.al or applicarioa for v.drnc!, ard, ir U;..l. of.r iD-plic.tim for lananc€, o cear o*nc of propcrty ,rrerJ *;;i,
o.. reni.Jy eirhir tiv. hurdcd 6m) f.!r of rh. prop.ny io *hic;tlr van.tre applicarbo r.htat, TIE nam.s ard addr6t.. of ructo?IrI! !h.[ bc d.i.rEin d by U€ Zoning eAuUnnroi tiororcrodr providcd by rtE .DDlic: .3. Dci.iorB of th. Bo.rd. rii Soera shaU b. Gopo*G'.d !o d.cid..!'D.al .nd 8rafl vrn.nc6 only shal uE dccisioo of lhc Bo.rda oy a uluoirrous ror._
A dmpl. maioriry vot€ a ,plir vorc by th. Bqrd 3hill !.rv. @ly- ...rc.snncndalifir lo dE Ciry Council, wbo rlrdt lhar mrl. U.rrD.I dcicrm uraaor on rhc apD..l or vlrianc. Equcsr ,irhin $rty(r, oaF axcr rcc.ipr of $. Boud,, ador-Tli Bo.rd. $aI a., upoa all.p9.rt aId v irm. r!qu6l! eirhin
. trtl.rn (15) day! aft6 ri. d.!. of rh. cblc of th! rcourcd ha.inr.. Ap.d from D.cis,o* .f ,.tr. Bo..d. ;tF";;;;fi:;-]'ra,.d by rny d..ision of th. Bo.rd. irdudins rlr. .Dot]._, * -1,tE'"oo ownitr8 prop.ny or r..,d.ns .irhin ri;c hu;;., 6in; fcc..-ror rrlc prop.ny b whid ! v.n.nc! rgplicariotr r.tfl6. .iy "pe..trudt d.cision !o rh. ciry Cor,r"ir ty i,iioe an +p..r ",ii ih..;;ul
^.d,lmlsEaror
sirhitr t.r ( l0) drF ifis lllc dL of or go.rdlsoealon. t rE Focdur! lovttnln! .ppcak 0o $c Bo.rd rhrll .Lotovcrr ep.ah io rlE Crry Couoc .J. CorE Adioo-. By.m.jo.ity vo!., rh. Ciry Cor[cil rDry Ev6r.,lltirm or .nodify, eholly or Danty, tn. d.ciiiar ippc.lcd'ftom r;;tcrd,.rd !o rhra md rh. Cny C-ou.cil sh.jl hrv. rll Uc royq!ot u. ao.d. rh. counql ,rr.u a*u..u .ppor, *iorii,-ifi iii- *t yr:., rh. d.r. of lh. Eqor.d rEriDs rh.r.on.o. ucrr.l. van.ncE m.y b. ddrl.d b, rhc B@rd .td drc Cooril. rrd$r.! d.ruC rlEI .on5 rur. r rnauu rr,a aacmrnet,m Urer. ,J,l
diriont ,!quir.d for .gproyrt do ,p. atr7. Acioa Wiftour D.Eiiioo. U oo dcslon 6 E. imiacd by fic Addto rb Ciry Council yiub siry tcol aan rrom rrx a:rc oirlLlpc.l or vari.nc. r.qu.st ! fit.d r'th lh€ Zon,ns Adh-,";.-;-;.
Councd may lak ac.loo oa rlt rlquc& h..(od.ae -,o ,r.l*
ccduEs tovcminS lhc Bord, *lhour furrhcr.erxnt O. Ao.rd,,dfti!ion.
SECTION 2. CONDITIONAL USE PERMAS!_2_I Pu,D{t.. Coodirionet us.! includ. lh6. urB vhidr r. ,Dt utu.lly.llow-.d *rthin lh. zonmt districl, bur *hicn m.y unds idna crculrstaro.,D. srr.bL. th. .pptrc.nr d|ilt hrvc rhc bonlcn of Foof ri.r rh. us.l! lll .DL ..d rha Urc lrandr& !a fo.rh h rhi!, Scclirl hltt &g| m.r.!-2-2 App,t,c.rion, public Hdin!, No.ic. .rxl ft"-dr.. i;.;;i;;;;:F|blr hc.rin& public [oric! md pro...tutt r.quncD6r! fa;djr;Jut DcrmiB rh.lt b. rbc etD..t rlroj. fo. trn.rdn.!!a ar provil.d irAnicl ttl, S.(liorl ! ac.p. tn.r Or pclmi !h.ll b. irlod on rh. .t,flr!|rdt. rol. ot r hriry of th. aqr. CoulEd. Aruourh *xEf,c. dbir&rr. r{ur.rl.ro rdrrlct h .pplirria fd r co.arr,aif ur
3-2-8
3-r-l Authdity. Th. CooEil mry ftoE rioc b tirc b, . forr-fiftb (,aA)
vor. of rh. .adlE Coucil .dof. d.afu6E io thb Orditr E ird,rdi;
thc zoaing rEilr.
J-3-2 Prcc.dur..
l. Proclcdina3 ao.E- God thn fri[.c lhdl or y b. iriri.r.d by rhcCouncil rb ptr!ii!! CeEissin c r panbo of tu pfrcny
o\rEr(s).2. A! .ppliqtior f6.n @admi.t I bG fl.d rih 6c Cry. pdi-
tirE .by prop.rty ort|Gl! rlquditr! ch.!f. b . diraric bourd.r,rhdl bc eomFri.{ by . Erp c Dht .trosirt thr hdt FoF.;. b b. .naosd .Dd .X t.!d riub fiyc hudnd (jqD f.a ot iL Lte-drdc! of thc p.op.iry proposcd fo, ercb .eorirt rogabcr wttt rfrcn&n6 ard rddr. taa of tha ovncs of laada in ,u.i rE_!-l-3 Public H.ariry. No rDGodmal sb.I bc.dopEd unril . orblic h.arin.hrr b.or hdd lha.u by th! pt.tui8 C@aittiro. Nqil of U rr-.iphc. .nd FT.DGG of r! .I,6tdm.ar t .dtrt .htll b. Fbtith.d h rbcolficiri nc,!p?G.r L.n lgr 00) d.F Fb; OE dry;haiD& Wh;lll .D€dmar ltryolvca dll!8.r b c a Eo.! dirtIi(r bord;d.. .f-r.ct q! .[ .r.. of fiyE (5).cr.. or Lt+ Erb of E h..riaS .b.ll bGmrilcd el k !r llD (lO dry! b.foE lhc d.E of h..ria! o cech ""rEof Drogcny *irhiD th. lI!. propo!.d ro b. d|aat d lDiowncr of pro-
pcny ilu.t d lxholly a Fnirly wirtir fivG hurl.tlrd (J(tr) fc.r oi lhcproDcny b wN.t rh. .D!t|&ncnr rd.rlr Tt frilur! of. proDdry
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SECTION 3. TEXT AMENDMENTS AND ZONING DETNJCT
CHANGES
FEES
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NORDlll[S'] Sll;N OoNlDANl" INO.
THE CITY OF CHANHASSEN
PI anni ng Conmi ssion
690 Coulter Dri ve
Chanhassen, MN 55417
Dear Comni ssion Members:
This letter accompanies our attached request to install four non-illuminateddirectional signs.at Dataserv-10911 Lake Drive East. The directionals per
our drawing are 3' x 4' and sit on a poured concrete base.
duplicate the directionals we provided for Dataserv in Eden prairie.
is one they feel is aesthetic with the size proportionate in re-to the site size. It is also felt the design and size creates easety for visitors as well as shipping and receiving veh.icles.
I'le appreciate your consideration of our request. If additional i nfornntion isrequired prior to the meeting, please call me.
Si ncerely,
NORDQUIST SIGN COMPANY,, INC.
These si gns
The des i gn
lationshipof Iegibili
Steve Hi rtz
sH/ch
Encl osure
312 WEST LAKE STREET . MINNEAPOLIS, MINNESOTA 55408
ESTABLISHED 19O4
16121 823-7291
I (
December 3, 1987
W
t
x
I.AND DEYELOPI{EI| T APPLICATIONCIIY OP CEANEASSEII
690 Coulter Drive
ChaDhasseD, !trit 55317(612) 937-1900
X*u*,
ADDRESS
TELEPHONE
APPLIC
*":
ADDRESS
z rp codeTELEPIIONE (Daytime )AZ 3- Zq
REQUEST:
Zoning District Change
Zoning Appeal
i, 3t(+)x zortiig variance
Zoting Text Amendment
Land Use plan Amendnent
Conditional Use permit
Site Plan Review
L'
o4
'sr,-'7
zi.p co{e
Planned Unit DeveLopEient
_ Sketch plan
_ Preliminary plan
_ Final plan
Subdi vi s ion
PROJECT NAME
PRESENT I.AND
REQUESTED LA
USE PtAN DESIGNATION
ND USE PLAN DESIGNATION
PRESENT ZONING
REOUESTED ZONING
Y. usEs pRoposED
X srzE oF pRopERTy
X LocATroN :{zzE
6 3
flr4ztA
x REASONS FOR THrS RIQUEST
t
RECE:VED
'DEC04l,187
CITY (tr ..xarvxrrsst rrr
X. LEGAL DESCRIPTION (Attach 1e9a1 if necessary)
H1
_ Platting
_ Metes and Bounds
Street,/Easement. Vacation
Wet.lands permit
lhe underthat he iapplicabl
Signed By
ances.
J 5i^)
, Appli can)//
Owne r
r
4-'r
Date .//
the applicantr the property
Date
{City sf Chanhassen
i:;3 :'""'"pment applicarion
llls applicarion must be complered in frctearly prinred ana i,,.i ;:*:-':-':' tT :ulr and be typewrit r.ffi;+:i*lffiffisiljffi
FTLI INS TR UCTTONS :
G CERTI FICA TTON:
s1 s
arni liar wi t
ned representa t-h the pr
ive of the appli.caocedural requi rements of aII
ni hereby certifiesf
I
FTLTN
ec ity TOrdin
7\/n,ur1u1 6-/,x
ii!::ii!::' ?:.ff"i:.;it..iio.i ft"";, jl"f .
A sisnea ay
ha s been
h
l\Nr-- qy ?lFitfl fu? a.+-tuz- zrqt-r ol=,o
Date Application Received
Applicarion Fee paid $
CitY Receipt trto.
-t 5
$!::*ii'ffi::H"xrt.be cons ideredand Appeals at Planning Commi ssion,/by chetheir
-,.,1-_.. -, , I -r:*,
CITY OF
CHANH[SSEN
P.C. DATE: Jan. 20,
C.C. DATB: Feb. 8,
CASE NO: 88-1 SUB
Prepared by: Olsen,/v
a
1988
198I
SIAFF R=PORT
Prelininary Plat Approval for the Subdivision of2.2 Acres into Five Single Family LoCs
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PROPOSAL:
LOCATION:
APPLICANT:
7371 Minnewashta parkway
S chwaba-Wi nche1l
3603 Recl Cedar PointExcelsior, MN 55331
ko
UJF
U)
PRESENT ZONING:
ACREAGE:
DENSITY:
ADJACENT ZONING
AND LAND USE:
RSF,
2.2
2.3
Residential Single Family
acres
units per acre (net)
N-
s-
E-
w-
RSF;
RSF;
RSF;
Lake
single family
single family
single family
St. Joe
WA?ER AND SEWER:Municipal services are available to site-
PEYSICAL CEARAC. :See report analysis
2OOO LAND USE PLAN:Low Density Resialential
i. 6600
6
7300
7400
7300
aOOO--.. _
7000
Teoo
.Jtl..ar,Yt _-rj.,:a..g..
ca
6soo
6800
6900
7700 - ---
78OO--
LAKE
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Schwaba-WincheIl Subdivision
January 20, 1988
Page 2
APPLICABLE REGULATIONS
City Engineer
Soil Conservation Service
DNR
Attachment *3
Attachment #4
DNR commented that the plansneet all of their specifications.
Parkway. A11 of the lotsthe 150 feet of lot depth
ANALYS I S
The applicant is proposing to subdivide 2.2 acres into 5 singlefamily lots. The property is zoned RSF, Residential Single Familywhich requires a minimum lot size of 15,000 square feet ind 90 feetof public street frontage. The property currently has one singlefamily residence with an existing driveway access onto MinnewashtaParkway. The site is heavily vegetated with underbrush and a fewareas of pine trees and larger deciduous trees. The site has aslightly steep slope in the eastern portion of the property tor"rardsLake Minnewashta and also slopes toward the south to a low areaadjacent to the property.
Lot Layout
Five lots are proposed along llinnewashta
contaj.n the requireal 15,000 square feet,
and the 90 feet of street. frontage.
Utilities
There is city sewer anC water available to the site. Currentlythere is only one assessment to the property. Therefore, if thefour additional lots are approved, there woultl be four addj-tionalsewer and water trunks assessed to the property.
S tree ts
The property is serviced by Minneh,ashta Parkway. MinnewashtaParkway is considered a collector and the location of this site isalong a curve in Minnewasht.a Parkrrray which makes access from thesite difficult. There is an existing private road to the north ofthe site which serves three properties to the east of t.he proposed
Section 5-5-5 requires that the minimum lot area in the RSFDistrict be 15,000 square feet with a minimum lot frontage of 90feec and a minimum lot depth of 150 feet (Attachment *I).
Subdivision ordinance, Section L2, 6.L2, states that there shallbe no direct vehicular or pedestrian access from individual 1otsto collectors, arterials or limited access highrdays (Attachment *2).
REFERRAI, AGENCIES
Schwaba-Winchel1 Subdivision
January 20, 1988
Page 3
site. When staff first reviewed this proposal with the appli-cant, r{e felt that the existing privaBe drive should be improvedas a public street. The existing three lots would then havepublic street frontage and the proposed five lots could also beserviced from an interior street rather than have separate accesspoints onto Minnewashta Parkway. The Subilivision Ordinance sta-tes that individual access should not be permitted on collectorstreets. The applicant contacted the property owners to Che eastto suggest improving t.he private drive to a public street. Theproperty ohrners to the east would not accept this proposal
( Attachment *5 ).
The location of the site on Minnewashta Parkway is on a curvewhich creates site distance problems and staff could not permit
each of the five lots to have a separate access onto Minne$rashtaParkway. If the existing private road to the east would not be
improved to a public street, staff had to review other options.There is an existing driveway servicing the existing house. Theapplicant has proposed to service Lots 3 and 5 with the existing
driveway and service Lots l and 2 with a new drive and thereforeonly creating one additional access onto Minnewashta Parkvray.
The Planning and Engineering Departments have reviewed this pro-
posal and have found it to be acceptable. The location of the
new driveway to service Lots I and 2 has good site distance and
would be accept-able. The existing driveway has poor sitedistance to the south due to an existing tree and berm in theright-of-way. Staff is recommending that the tree be removed andthat the berm be graded to improve visibility.
RECOMMENDAT I ON
Planning staff recommends the Planning Commission adopt thefollowing motion:
"The Planning Commission recommends approval ofas shown on the plat stamped "Received Januaryto the following conditions:
Subdivision # 88-14, 1988' subject
1. Lots 3 - 5 sha11 be serviced by the existing driveway andLots I and 2 shall share a driveway.
Miscellaneous
The existing trees on the site are of marginal quality. There
is a stand of pines and some larger deciduous trees that are
located such that they can be preserved. Therefore, staff does
not recommend that a tree removal plan be required. There is anexisting house and accessory building on the site at this time.
If the subdivision is approved, the existing house will be
located on tot 4 and the accessory building will be located onLot 3. The Zoning Ordinance does not permit accessory buildings
to be located on a site without a principal structure.
Therefore, the accessory building should be removed from Lot 3.
Schwaba-winchel1 Subdivis ionJanuary 20, 1988
Page 4
Four additional sewer and.towards the property.water assessments sha11 be assessed
3 The accessory building on Lot 3 shall be removed.
4
The applicantthe City andsureties.
6
8.
the
be requi redthe wye
2
5
The applicant sha11 remove the existing tree just south ofthe existing driveway within the right-of-way to improve sitedistance.
sha1l enter into a development contract withprovide the City with the necessary financial
The applicant sha11 apply for and obtain permits from theeratershed district, DNR and other appropriate regulatoryagencies and comply with their condilions of appioval . -
Construction on Lake Minnewashta parkway shal1 be prohibited.
Lots.that.are required to share a singular sanitary sewerservice wiIl oe reguired to provide a 6-inch clean6ut oneach branch of the service located between the house andwye (refer to Attachment #2).
Lots required to share a singular water stub willto provide a curb at the wye and on each branch of( refer to Attachment #3)-
I0. An acceptable grading plan shall be providedfor the corrective sight distance grlding ofprior to the issuance of building permiti.
11. A l5-inch diameter culvert wiII be requirednortherly proposed driveway.
7
9
by theLots 4
deve I ope r
and 5
12. A grading, drainage andwill be reguired as part
proces s .
underneath the
control plan for each 1otbuilding permit appl ication
ero s 10n
of the
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
ATTACHA,IENTS
Section 5-5-5 of the Zoning Ordinance.Section 12 - 5.I2 of the Subdivision Ordinance.
Memo from City Engineer dated January 14, I9gg.Letter from Soil Conservation Service dated January 6,Letter from applicant dated January 4, 19g9.Application.
Preliminary plat stamped "Received January 4, 19gg".
1988.
5-5-4 The following are conditional uses ].n an ,,RSF,, district:
Churches
Private stables, subject to provi.sions ofordinance
Recreational beach lotsCornmercial stable with a ninimurn lot sizeacres .
1
2
3
the horse
of five
Lot Requirements and Setbacks. The following minirnunrequirernents sharr- be observed i"--""-;nir- District subjectto. additional requJ.rements, exceptions--ana modificationsset forth in this ordinance.
1. Lot Area: 15,OOO square feet.
2 Lot Frontage: 90 feetcul-de-sac sha1l be 90setback line).
Group horne serving sixState Iicensed day care
(except that lots fronting onfeet in width at the builAing a
Lot. Depth: 150 feet.
Maximum lot coverage forsurfaces: 25U.
al l- structures and paved
5. Setbacks:
A. Front yard: 30 feet.
B. Rear yard: 30 feet.
C. side yard: 10 feet.
6- Maximum Height:
A. Principal Structure: three stories/4o feet.
B. Accessory structure: three stories/4o feet.6. "R-4,, MIXED LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL DISTRTCT
rltent- _singLe-famiJ-y and attached residentiar deveroDmentat a maxinun net density of four dwelling units ler-i;;;:'^'
5-6-2 The following uses are permitted in an ,,R-4,, di-strict:
Single-family dwellings
Two-family dwel l ingsPublic and private parks
3
4
SECTION
5-6-1
l-
2
3
4
5
6
7
and open spaceor fewer personscenter for tvrelve or fewerchi ldrenUtility services
Temporary real estate office and model home
5-5-5
tr
il
F.
-40-#t
5. Deflections. V,lhen connecting street lines deflect fromeach other at one poj.nt by more than ten (1O) O.g"e"s Ln"yshall- be -connected by a curve with a radius adeqriate to eisurea sight distance within the right_of_way of not less thanfive hundred (5oo) feet for arferials, three hundred (3oo)feet for collectors, and one hundred ifoo) f."t for all otherstreets.
6. Turning Radius. proper design shall consider requiredturning radius of vehicles for a6cess points or entrancesto and frorn a hlghway using standards adopted by the MinnesotaDepartment of Transportation.
7. crades. Al1 centerLine grades shall be at least flve_tenths percent (o.5%) and shilt not exceed five perceni isZl,fon arterials and eight percent (Bil) for all other streetsand alleys. Whenever possible, grades within thj-rty (30) feetof intersections or railroad cr6ssl-ngs shalt not eiceea'tf,"eepercent (3%).
8. Verti.cal Curves. Di-fferent connecting street grades sha1lbe connected with vertical curves. Minimr]m lengthl i" i";l;--of the vertj.cal curves shal-l be 20 tj.mes the algebraj.cdlfference j.n the percentage of grade cf the tw6 adjacentslopes.
9. Offset streets and Intersections.have a centerline offset of not Iessintersections shall be avoided.
Local streets sha 1Ithan 3O0 fee E. Offset
The al.ignment sha11 discourage through10. LocaL streets.traffic.
I1. Cul-de-sacs. The maximum lengthin a cul-de-sac shall. be determlnei asexpected Cevelopment density along thethe centerline of the street of oiiglnri ght-of-way.
of a street terrninat inga function of thestreet, measured fromto the end of the
L2. Access to A-rterial Streets. Where a proposed subciivj-sronis adjacent to a limj.ted access hiqhway, arterial or coLlectorstreet, there shall be no direct ,Jni"ri." o!- pedestrian accessfrom individual lots to such high,rays or streets. To the extentfeasi-ble access to arterial striets- shalI be at intervalsof not less than one-fourth (t,z<) niie-and through "*i=ii.,gand established crossr-oads. Access along collector streetswiII be restricted and controlled on tnE final plat.
13. Half-Streets. Half streets shall be prohibited exceptwhere it wilL be practical to require-tfre OeOication of theother half v.,hen the adjoining p"op".ty-i" subdivided, i.n whichcase the deCicatlon of a hali ltreet may Ue permitted o" "._quired. The probabte.length of time "i"i=:.rrg before dedicationof the remainder shall bE a factor """.ia""6a i" ,n"ki;;-;;i;-determi.na ti.on.
cl-
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I
CHINHISSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE ' P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
MEMORANDUM
TO: Planning Commission
FROM: Larry Brosn, Assistant City Enginee, d8
DATE: January 14, 1988
SUBJ: Schwaba-Winchell Preliminary PIan Approval
Planning File 88-1 Subdivision
The site is located adjacent to Minnewashta Parkway approximai-ely
I mile north of Highway 5 (refer to Attachment *1). The 2.2 acre
site is comprised of open field with steep side slopes on the
west side of the property.
Sanitary Sewer
Municipal sanitary sewer service is available to the site from
four sewer services which are stubbed out to the property line.
Since the aumber of proposed lots exceeds the number of existing
services, a r'ew lots will oe required to share services.
Water
Municipal water service is available to the site by four rrater
services which also have been stubbed out to the property boun-
dary. Water services lvill also have to be shareC as no construc-
tion wilI be allowed on Minnewashta Parkway.
D r i veways
The plans indicate that Ewo driveways are to access Minnewashta
Parkiray. The northerly driveway possesses ailequat.e site
distance. The .southerly driveway has an obstructed view to the
south. Corrective grading of Ehe berm along the northwest side
of Lot 4, Block L wi1l be reguired co improve Lhese site distan-
ces. Removal of the oak tree at the north property corner may be
required dependent upon the success of the corrective grading.
Dra i naqe
The nat.ural drainage patEern is characterized by overland
flow with the high point existing on the west half of Lot
sheet
1,
CITY OF
Planning Commiss ion
January 14, 1988
Page 2
Gradin and Erosion Control
Recommended Condi E.ions
An acceptable grading drainage andto be submitted for approval prior
permi ts .
Block 1. The drainage flows radially outvrard from this point.The.plans do not propose any major changes to the existingdrainage pattern. A L5-inch diameter culvert will be requiredund.erneath t.he northerly proposed driveway for Lots 1 ana 2.
erosionto the
control
issuance
plan will need
of building
1
2
The applicant shallthe City and providesureties.
enter into a development contract withthe City with the necessary financial
3. Construction on Lake Minnewashta parkway shall be prohibited.
4
The applicant sha1l apply for and obtain permits from thewatershed district, DNR and other appropriate regulatoryagencies and comply with their conditions of appioval . -
Lots that are required to share a singular sanitary sewerservice will be required to provide a 6-inch cleanout oneach branch of the service located between the house and thewye ( refer to Attachment *2).
Lots required to share a singula vuater stub will be requj.redto provide a curb at. the wye aad on each branch of the lvye
( refer to Attachment #3 ).
5
6. An acceptable grading plan shal1 be providedfor the corrective sight distance grading ofprior to the issuance of building permits.
7 A 15-inch diameter culvert !ri11northerly proposed driveway.
by theLots 4
deveJ.oper
and 5
be requiretl underneath the
!iap
Sanitary Sewer Servicellater Service
PIans
1
2
3
4
Attachments:
8. A grading, drainage and erosion control plan for each lotwilI be required as part of the building permit applicationprocess.
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United States
Department of
Agriculture
Soil
Conservation
Service
Schwaba - Winchell
Planning Case 88-l SUB
Jo Ann 01sen, Asst. Clty Planner
City of Chanhassen
590 Coulter Drive, P.O. Box 147
Chanhassen, MN 55317
oete: January 5, 1988
TO File code
PLease find attached a soil uap sheet showlng approxlmate boundaries of
the proposed plat. Soll interpre t"-ti-ons sheets are also i.ncluded. Be
sure to review this information. It Is general ill nature and not in-
tended for site speciflc use.
The soils on the site do not appear to present any najor llmitatlons to
developuent. Regrading and revegetating disturbed areas qulckly is im-
portant. If septic systexns will be used, they should neet appllcable
standards and be closely inspected during construction.
Please call if u eq stions.
Stanl Wendland
District Conservationist
Enc .
o The Soil Conservation Service
is an agoncy ol lh€
Unried Slate3 Deparlment of Agricullure
r,0)r.;JJ #+
219 East Frontage Road
Waconia, Minnesota 55387
Subject:
HENNEPIN COUNTY
CARVER COUNTY, MINNESOTI
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SCHI{ABA-IIII{CHELL
3603 Red Ce
Exce l sior,
(612) 47
dar
MN
4-2L
Poi nt
55331
66
January 4, 1988
City of Chanha s sen
690 Coul ter Dri ve
Chanhassen, MN 55317
To l,lhom It May Concern:
The city of chanhassen h.ad.requested that we contac.t three (3) adjoiningproperty owners to obtain .their.participation in providing us with 'an-iasement
IgI_l::.rr to our proposed subdivisio. ?i*-ir,. sbuth sidi ;i;;il";y: Thoseproperty owners are: C.R. Aldritt (recentl v deceased), Earl &'t.'iei[ertngtonand James 0. and Frances gorchart.
In contacting the second.and thir -parties, respectively, on December 11, 19g7,by telephone, thev were both hostirl .na .oirirlt against cooperating in anywayin providing said proposed easement. r'1"-. x.irr."irgton further ttrreiieneo legat
ilIJg:r,J"I...i.li.ntrlr"ru. the matter ir.ir,e"." rn uaaiilon, -doti'-pu"ties
Therefore, we reouest that we proceed with our prans for our proposed subdi-vision .i.n hope that the city "irr
-ue iui. to work with us without thecooperation of these part.i es.
Sincerely yours,
t /'\
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IJTND DEVELOP:{ENT APPLIC,I\TIONCITI OF CEANEASSEN
690 Coulter DriveChaahassetr, !u{ 55317(612) 937_1900
APPLICA.\T : 5cHodA,4 - u).ru (f/cz
ADDRESS 3c."'9 Rc--o ft.o/)rL /c;roz'
t Kccz st c-/Z zttt 5r3
O{NER: '7-t,n FtgtlFZ
(: /f,/./7,/r/t ,r/- )/r/t/
(_
,rP codeTELEPHONE (Daytime )
REQT'EST:
TELEPHONE '17't - /)a G,
ZLp &
Planned Unit Development
_ sketch Plan
_ preliminary p]'ao
_ Final plan
Subdi vi s i. on
^ PI3tting
_ Metes and Bounds
Street,/EasemenE Vacation
t{etlands pernit
7f-Jt (.
Zoning District Change
Zoning Appeal
Zoning Variance
Zoning Text Anendment
Land, Use PIan fuiendment
Conditional Use pernit
Site Plan Review
K
PROJECT NA.YE
PRESENT I^AND
5< iuzrttZ A-(./, .1,/ ( ttt:-Z c 'lO t D:->et
usE pLAN DESrci,rATroN E{- 5,.ct-zt,,l /-1_
REQUESTED LAND USE PLAN DESIGNATION C5 r.Oc-m'/t /a-Z_
PRESENT ZONING rt2c"ztt7)
REQL.ESTED ZONING /1(i "2..>'n-?7-
USES PROPOSED
"/{
REASONS FOR THIS REQUEST
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I.EGAL DESCR,IPTION
crTY 0f $t$Hrs$x
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.JAN '5':lq
/<,q.(Attach
${$rHA$${ PUtililXG oEPT.
lega1 if necessary) SCrT
ADDRESS 73 7 t o7...t>,<t 'zu,og n ,.4 -
SIZE OF PROPERTY
*'n
lan e
Paq e
Signed By
Signei 6
Date App lica tion
App.l. j.cacion Fee
Ci ty Recei pt rrlo .
oi C5:ahassen
Deuelopnenc Application
This ap_c J. i ca ii oi: mu:crearry- ptini.i"ura"s: be cc'ilprete'l i ^ c
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and by the
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cons i.deredAppeals ar PlJnn i. ng Commission,/
FTLTNG cE-l?r5rcA"IO}I:
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(
CITY OF
EHANH[SSEN
P.C. DATE:
C.C. DATE:
Jan. 20, 1988
Feb. 8, 1988
CASE NO: 87-18 CUp
87-14 WAP
Prepared by: Dacy/v
STAFF REPORT
Conditional Use Permit Request to Operate aContractorrs Yard and Wetland Alteration permit
Request for Development Within 200 feet of aClass A Wetland.-iF:z
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=-LL
PROPOSAL:
I.OCATION:
APPLICANT:
North of
ad j acen t and adjacent to TH 212to TH 101 (10500 creat
and east of andPlains BIvd . )
Admiral Waste Management, Inc.Patrick Blood and Nancy Lee
8275 Tamarack Trail
Eden Prairie, MN 55344
ko
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e
PRESENT ZONING:
ACRBAGE:
DENS ITY:
AD.IACENT ZONING
AND LAND USE:
BF, Fringe Busioess Di s tr ict
13.27 acres
N/A
A-2; large lot single
A-2 i Minnesota. River
BFi vacant commercial
family residential
VaI fey
(proposed cold stor
warehousing )
PEYSICAL CEARAC. :
2OOO LAND USE PLAN:Agr i cul tural
BFi existing motel units
Municipal water and sewer lines are notavailable to the site.
The site contains steep slopes adjacent trailroad tracks to the north and. containsa Class A i,iretland.
J.
WATER AND SEWER:
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Blood CUP and hlAP
January 20, I988
Page 2
APPLICABLE REGULATIONS
On June 15, 1987, the City Council approved the ordinance
amendment to include contractorrs yards as a conditional use inthe BF, Business Fringe District. The planning Commission con-sidered the zoning ordinance amendment application on May 13,1987. The applicants have now petitioned for conditional usepermit approval to operate a contractor's yard at the subjectsite.
Article V, Section 24, Wetland protection Regulations requiresthat development '.rithin 200 feet of a Class A vretland mustreceive a wetland alteration permit. Although no direct altera-tion is proposed to the wetland existing on the property, thedevelopment is within the wetlandrs watershed.
Contractorrs yards are defined by the Zoning Ordinance as "anyarea or use of Iand where vehicles, eguipment, and/or construc-tion materials and supplies commonly used by building, excava-tion, roadway construction, Iandscaping and similar contractorr sare stored or serviced. A contractorrs yard includes both areasof outdoor storage and areas confined within a completelyenclosed building used in conjunction with a contractorrs busi-ness".
REFERRAL AGENCIES
City Engi neer
Soil Conservation Service
Resource Engineering
( Septic System Consultant )
Dr. RockweIl
Public Safety
MnDOT
DNR
ANALYS I S
At tachmen t
Attachmen t
Attachment
At tachmen t
A t tac hmen t
At tachnen t
Attachment
*2
#3
*4
#s
#6
t*7
#8
Requested is conditional use permit approval for operation of acontractorrs yard on 13 acres of property located adjacent to THlOL and IH 212. The applicant proposes to store garbage trucksand dumpsters on site and have a sma11 office area for dispatchpurposes. Admiral Waste l{anagement serves cities in the south-irest area.
P roposa I
Proposed is the construction of a 4,300 square foot building of
which 1r300 square feets wi]I be office and 3r000 square feet will
be the garage area. Included in the proposal is an off-streetparking area and storage area for garbage dumpsters. The appli-cant has indicated that there will be two office employees andfour vehicles operating fron the site (2 pick-up trucks and 2
garbage trucks). During summer months there will be no storage
of dumpsters on site. During the winter months, there may be up
to 12 dumpsters stored on site. The applicants have indicatedthat an additional 2 trucks will be added by the end of 1988.
Depending on the growth of the business, the applicants haveindicated that as many as 12 trucks could be operating from this
Iocation. There is no proposed storage of garbage or trash.
Existinq Conditions
Existing on site is a barn, single family dwelling, and a garage
building. These buildings will be removed in order for the pro-
posed construction to occur. Appropriate demolition permits will
need to be obtained and demolition material must be removed from
the site. The applicants have indicated that there is an
existing well underneath the existing home. Appropriate permits
from the PubIic Safety Department will need to be obtaining for
capping the weII.
The Chicago Northr.restern Railroad abutss the site on the north.
The southern portion of the site adjacent to TH 212 contains a
C1ass A wetl-and. The eastern portion of the property shown as
ParceI B is currently being used for agricultural purposes.
BIuff Creek exists along the rrestern property line between the
Brookside !1ote1 and the subject site. The property also contains
significant stands of mature vegetation.
Ordinance Revierv
Article III, Section
ditional use permi ts
also comply with the
and Section 17. The
of Article v, Section
addressed as folLows:
2, requires that applications for con-
meet the standards listed in section 2 and
standards provided in Article v, Section 9
application meets items A, C, E, F, G, and.
9. Items B and D of the applicat.ion can
H
be
B
D
The ordinance requires that the buildings must be set
back 100 feet from public or private road right-of-ways.
As proposed, the site plan indicates 80 feet from Ehe
corner of the office to the TH 101 right-of-way line.
This problem can be resolved by shifting the proposed
building site 20 feet to the east.
The ordinance requires that the outdoor storage areas
must be completely screened by 100t opaque fencing or
Blood CUP and WAP
January 20, 1988
Page 3
Blood CUP and hlAP
January 20, 1988
Page 4
berming. The applicant has provided a 3 foot bermbetween the vehicular use area and TH 212. TheLandscaping Ordinance (Art. VIII, Sec. 2), requires theaddition of one tree per 40 feet betrreen the vehicularuse area and public road right-of-ways. Therefore, it isrecommended that 15 six foot evergreen t.rees be plantedalong the berm extending from the eastern side of theparking area to the western side of the parking area. Inaddit.ion, 5 six foot evergreen trees should be plantedadjacent Co TH 101. There are 8 existing trees beyondthat which is indicated on the site plan! however, theaddition of evergreens will provide year rounil screening.
The proposed location of the building takes advantage ofthe existing topography of the site. To be built iitothe slope along the rear of the property, the railroadserves as the barrier between the residences on thenorth. . Homes along Lakota Lane are at a significant e1e_vation h.igher than the subject siEe. tn addition, theieis a significant amount of vegetation between these homesand the railroad such that TH 212 cannot be seen. Thegraq9. along TH I01 will also screen the use from passingt raffic.
Upon examination of the standards contained in Article III,section 2 (31 , the application meets the standards risted in thissection. The following wilI discuss specific issues.
Traff ic
A driveway access was originally proposed from ,IH 2I2 through theexistinE wetland to access tne iiLe.- MnDor indicated that a.cessLo TH 2I2 is prohibited as MnDOT purchased access rights several
IeSl! aS" to prevent direct access along this major irterial.llnDor personnel did visit the site to d6termine .ih.ch". o. -not
the TH 101 access would be acceptable. Based on ttre proposeadriveway intersection indicated on the site, MnDor is'iniicici.rgthat the access to the sit.e is adequate subject to ..".i"ing ullnDOT access permit.
Adjacent property o$rners in the area, in contacting staffregarding this public hearing, have asked whether 5r not the citycould investigate reserving iight-of-way or encouraging a fron_tage road in this location to eventually connect wiih Ehe cotastorage use located to the east (this buililing lras approved inearly 1985 but has not been built as of yet).- this is anexcellent idea which can be implemented when subdivision of t,heproperty occurs. The city AEtorney has advised that we cannotrequire exacEion,/ reservaLion of a roadway in con jun"iio"-riti,the conditional use permit; however, if the p.op"ity ""i" i" U"subdivided,.a plat wourd be required at lhat tiire a'na ini""!n tn"city's subdivision ordinances iight-of-way cour.d be required to
Blood CUP and WAP
January 20, 1988
Page 5
be dedicated.
also serve the
other than the
Construction of a frontage
proposed uses by promoting
TH 101 access.
road in this area would
an alternative access
Alticle VII, Section 1, requires that parking areas $rithin busi-
ness districts be paved and lined with concrete curb. Proposed
on the site plan is parking spaces of 6 spaces ilirectly in front
of the proposed office building. This amount meets the require-
rnents of Article VII, hovrever, when addiEional trucks or
ernployees are added, the parking area indicated directly opposite
the garage area would need to be used for parking of those
vehicles.
Given MnDOTrs review and comments, access to the site is adequatefor the operation of the proposeil use. Because no other accessis possible at t.his time from fH 212, the property must receive
some type of access and the access at TH 101 is feasible.
Utilities
The applicant conducted soil borings on the site for two drain-
field sites as required by Ordinance 10-B. The Cityrs septic
system consultants reviewed the soil borings and determined that
standard septic systems with trenches can be installed to ade-
quately handle the domestic waste from the bathrooms in the pro-
posed building. The consultants noted, however, that a holding
tank should be installed to collect the car anal truck washing
\,{astes to prevent usage by the septic treatment system. The
holding tank would need to be pumped on a regular basis. The
applicant should provide the city with Ehe copy of the pumperts
contract to ensure that the tank is being pumped on a regular
basis.
Because the city adopted Appendix E of the Uniform Building Code
which requires sprj.nklering of aI1 commercial buildings, the
applicants will need to install a wel]- system which wiIl provide
foi sprinklering of lhe proposed building. The building is also
proposed to be constructed of concrete block-
RECOMMENDAIION -Conditional Use Permi t
Planning staff recommends the Planning Commission adopt the
following motion I
"The Planning Commission recommends approval of Conditional
Permit Request 87-18 to operate a contractor's yard located
of and adjacent to TH 212 anal east of and adjacent to TH 101
based on the site plan stamped "Received December 29, !987" ,
subject to the following conditions:
Use
north
and
I Hours of operation shall be from 7:00
Monday through Satsurday only (work on
not permitted).
a.m. to
Sundays
6:00 p.m.,
and holidays
Blood CUP and WAP
January 20, 1988
Page 6
There shall be no
Any 1i9ht sources
r ight-of-ways .
2
3
outside speaker systems.
shall be shielded from adjacent public road
4 receive the waste water
pumper contract shallf a building permit.
The buildiag must be sprinklered.
The building rnus t havea central dispatch.a heat and smoke detector system with
7. Lighted exit signs must be installed at all exits.
8. A plan for storage of ftammable and/ormust be subnitted to the public Safety
9. Emergency lighting nust be installed.
10. The driveway and parking 1ot shall havecurb and gutter.
A holding tank shall be installed tofrom the garage area. A copy of thealso be provided prior to ilsuance o
5
6
combustible materialOffice for approval.
surmountable concrete
11.
L2.
13.
14.
15.
15.
L7.
The applicant sha11 submit a landscaping plan indicatinginstallation of 20 six foot .r.rgr.un trees between thevehicular use areas and the public right-of-vrays.
All septic system sites shall be staked and roped off priorto the comrnencement of any construction. any Lraffic 6verthese sites will reguire ieevaluation of the sites.
The applicant shal1 obtain an access permit from theMinnesota Department of Transportation and shaIl comply withall conditions of the permit.
The approach onto Trunk Highway J,01 shall be a maxirnum of0.5t grade for a minimum dista-nce of 50 feet.
Catch basins shall be provided at the low point of the drive_way along- vrith proper spillways in the parling 1ot. a i."i""aplan shall be submitted for approval by the citt ergi;""i.--
Calculations _ver i fying the preservation of lhe predevelopedrunoff rate for the site and ponding calcutatioirs tor i '
100-year frequency storm event shali. Oe provided to ttre CityEngineer for approval .
Check dams (type II Erosion Control) sha1l be placed atI00-foot intervals along aJ.I drainage swal,es.
Blood CUP and WAP
January 20, 1988
Page 7
r8.
19.
Existing structures shall be disposed of properly. If debrisis to be burned, the applicant shall obtain a burning permit
from the Department of Public Safety and the PollutionControl Agency. On-site burial of debris is prohibited.
Additional erosion control shal,I be placed along the northside of the sit.e. A revised plan shall be submitted for
approval by the City Engineer.
20.A1l erosion control measures shall be in place prior to theinitiation of any grading and once in place shall remain inplace throughout the duration of construction. The developeris required to make periodic reviews of the erosion control
and make any necessary repairs promptly. AIl of the erosion
control measures shaIl remain intact until an established
vegetative cover has been produced at which time removal
sha11 be the responsibility of the developer.
21. Wood fiber blankets or equivalent shall be utilized to stabi-
lize all disturbed slopes greater than 3:1.
22. Seeding sha1l be disc-anchored and shall commence no later
than two weeks after slopes have been established.
23. AII detention ponds and drainage swales sha1l be constructed
and operational which includes aI1 pertinent storm se'.ver
systems to have the ponds functional prior to any other
construction on the project.
24. The applicant shall apply for and obtain permits from the
'datershed district, DNR and other appropriate regulatory
agencies and comply with their conditions of approval.
25. Any expansion of the building or
beyond I2 vehicles shaII require
parking areas or expans ion
a conditional use permit review.
WETLAND ATTERATION PER},IIT
A wetland alteration permit request was processed because the pro-
posal aas within 200 feet of a Class A wetlanal. The weEland
extends trom Bluff Creek along the west property line to almost the
entire length of the subject property. There is to be no direct
alteration to the wetland, however, the runoff from the proposed
building and parking area is eventually directed toward t.he
weEland. The proposed drainage plan for the site promotes runoff
running along swale areas which eventually lead into small deten-
Eion basins. The berms will also prevent direct runoff from the
parking areas into the wetland. The parking area and buildings
meet the 75 foot structure setback. The septic system locations
also meet the I50 foot setback reguirement. A minimal increase in
runoff will- traverse through the wetland. The detention basin must
be sized to accommodate the 100 year storm event. Erosion control
is indicated along the limits of the grading activity to prevent
silt and ot.her debris to enter the wetland.
The Soil Conservation
regarding revegetation
These comrnents shouldquate sediment control
RECOMI{ENDAT I ON Wetland Alteration Permi t
Planning staff recommends thefollowing motion:
Service has submitted its commentsof the slopes and location of the haybales.
become conditions of approval so that ade-is maintained.
Planning Commission adopt the
"The PLanning Commission recommends Wetland#87-14 to locate a contractorrs yard withinClass A wetland be approved subject to the"Received December 29, 1987" and subject to
d itions:
Alteration Permitthe watershed of asite plan stampedthe following con-
1
2
Compl iance ,ri th(4).the standards of Article V, Section 24 (a)
Compliance with the conditions ofPermit Request 87-18. "
approval of Conditional Use
ATTACHMENTS
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
1r.
L2.
13.
14.
16.
Blood CUP and WAP
January 20, 1988
Page 8
Detailed location map.
Memo from Larry Bro$rn dated January 15, 19gg.Letter from Soil Conservation Service dated January 5, 19gg.Letter from Resource Engineering dated December 30, fiAU.Letter from Dr. Rockwell dated October 27, L987.Memo from Steve Madden dated November 30, 19g7.Letter from MnDOT dated January 15, l9gg.Letter from DNR dated January 6, I9gg.Wetlands map.Flood plain map.Aerial photo of site.
Uap showing distances between contractorrs yards.Excerpts from Zoning Ordinance.Planning Commission minutes dated uay 13, 1987.City Council minutes dated June 15, 1987.Application.
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CITY OF
EHINHISSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE ' P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
UEII{ORANDUM
TOs Planning Commission
FROM: Larry Brown, Assistant City Engineer d3.
DATE: January 14, 1988
SUBJ: Admiral Waste Management Site plan ReviewPlanning File No. 8 7-I8CUp
SaniLary Sewer
The site is located near the intersection of Trunk Highrvay 101and St.ate Highway 169-/212. The subject parcel , parcei A,'iscomprised of an abandoned farmyard ;ith steep side slopes on thenorth property bounalary and a flat low-1yini wetland-i"-*r"
s outh .
Municipal saltitary sewer service is not availableOn-site septic systens have been proposed on theParcel A. Each septic site should bt staked andto the commencement of any construction.
Water
Municipal water
on-s r t.e sources
Dr i vewa y/par ki n q
service is notrvill have to be
available to the
developed.
to Ehe site.east side of
roped off prior
site. Therefore,
The-typical driveway and parking section as shown on the planconforms !9 the City standards ior parking areas. Since the siter.s zoned BF, the derairs shourd be revised to incrude concrececurb and gutter to comply with the zoning ordinance.
The proposed access onto Trunk Highway 101 meets the requiredsite distances. The applicant wiil b3 required to obtain anaccess permit from the Ivlinnesota Department of Transportation.No access will be alloweC onto Highiay t6g/2L2
#;\
Planning Commission
January 14, 1988
Page 2
Draina e
The requirement of the curb and gutE.er for the parking
lot/driveway area will necessitate the addition of catch basinsat the low point in the driveway, and a spillway at the southeast
corner of the parking lot.
The applicant has provitled for two ponding areas to help reduce
sealiments in the runoff. The applicant's engineer shall provide
the City with ponding calculations verifying adequate capacity
for a l0O-year frequency storm event, as well as maintaining the
predeveloped runoff rate.
Grading and Erosion Control
The proposed grading plan will require the demolitiott of three
existing strucEures. The material from the structures shall
either be trucked off site or burned. If the latter opEion is
elected, a burning permit will oe required from the Department of
Public Safety and the Pollution Control Agency.
The plans also propose to remove
the east siale of the site.
a large portion of the trees on
The plans adequately address erosion control for the south side
of Ehe site. Due to the severe slopes on the north side of the
property, the Soil ConversaEion Service has recommended that a
drainage Civersion be placeC along the north siale of Ehe site lo
reduce erosion (refer to attachment 2). To further aid in ero-
sion control, seeding should be disc-anchored and placed no later
than two weers after grading has been completed.
Recommended Conil i t ions
I All septic syslem sites shall be sLaked and roped off prior
to the conmencement of any construction. Any traffic over
these sites wilI require reevalualion of the sites.
The applicant shall obtain an access permit from the
Minnesota Department of Transportation and shall comply r,rith
all conditions of the Permit.
The approach onto Trunk ltightday 101 shall be a maximum of
0.5t grade for a minimum distance of 50 feet.
The drivelray and parking 1ot shall have surmountable concrete
curb and gutter.
Catch basins shall be provideil at the 1ow point of the drive-
way along $rith proper spillways in the parking tot. A revised
plan shall oe submitted for approval by the City Engineer.
2.
3
4
5
Planning Commission
January 14, 1988
Page 3
6.
7
Calculations verifying the preservation of the predevelopedrunoff rate for the site and ponding calculations for a100-year frequency storm event shall be provided to the CityEngineer for approval .
Check dams (Type II Erosion Control) sha1l be100-foot intervals along a1l drainage swales.
8. Existing structures shall be disposed of properly. If debrisis to be burned, the applicant shall obta].n i Uuining permitfrom the Department of public Safety and the po1luti6n-Control Agency. On-site burial of debris is prohibi:ed.
9. Addit.ional erosion control shal1 be placed along the northside of the site. A revised plan shi1l be submitted forapproval by the City Engineer.
10.
placed at
A1I erosion control measures sha1l be in place prior to theinitiation of any grading and once in pla-e shall remain inplace throughout the durat.ion of constiuction. tire aevefoperis required to make periodic reviews of the erosion controiand make any necessary repairs promptly. AI1 of the erosioncontrol measures shalL remain intacl ,:ntil an establishedvegetative ccqer has been produced at which time remoqalshal1 be the responsibility of the developer.
wood fiber blankets or equivarent shalr be utirized to stabi-lize a1l disturbed slopeJ greater than 3:1.
1l-.
L2.
13.
L4.
Seeding shal1 be disc-anchored and shall commence no Laterthan two weeks after slopes have been established.
A1r detention ponds and drainage swares shal1 be constructedand operational which includes-alI pertinent storm serrersystems to have the ponds functional prior to any otherconstruction on the project.
The applicant shalI apply for and obtain permits from thewatershed district, DNR and other appropr!.ate regulatoryagencies and comply with their conaiLions of appioval . -
15. Working hours shalL be between5:00 p.m. with no lrork allowed
the hours of 7:00 a.m. toon Sundays or holidays.
Attachments:Location lrapLetter from the
Plans
cc: Gary Warren, City Engineer
SoiI Conservation Service
1
2
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United States
Oepartment of
Agriculture
Soil
Ccnservation
Service
2I9 East
Waconia,
or ronEage Road
llinnesota 55387
a
subiecr: cuP lI87-18, wA? #87-14
To Barb Dacy, Clty Planner
Clty of Chanhassen
690 Coulter Drive, P.O. Box 147
Chalhtissen, MN 55317
3. The plan ca1ls for putring the hay balesslze bale teods to be about 18" x 18', on thegive adequate sediment entrapment capaci;i;?
D6te: January 5, 1988
6" below grade.
end. Does I ft.
The average
above grade
Attached ni(.:ase find a soj-l [ap sheet showiug the aporoxlnate platbourdarj^ss. S1ng1e sheet soll descrLptlons are also i-ncluded.. Besure to review these uaterials. This informatlon is for generalplamiing n6.terj.a1s only; for site specific questions consult aqualified so11s englneer.
The principle source of potential soil related difficulty is apparentlyslope. The general developnent approach seems correct. Revegeiati-ngdlsturbed areas will be critical and should be done at the earliestopportunity. ReconmendatLons are as folLows:
1: A tenporary diversion along the entire upper slope above the gradingslte may prove very helpful in reduclng gu11y darmge to newly graded.slopes and channels on the site.
2. The cut slope on the northrsest corner and the channel on the eastside will be the most diffi.cult areas to re-establish into vegetaticn.
StorxB water runoff velocities for the design storE should not exceed4.5 fps or vegetation will be very difficult to establish. Cut slopesand fill slopes should not exceed 3:1.
4. Seeded areas should be mulched with an anchored mulch. Sod should bestaked on sodded areas.
Please call rrith yo qu tions.
1,,/
an 1e Wen
Distr ct Co
Enc .
dland
nservationist
o Tha Soil Con3eNation Servic6
is an egency ol lhe
lJnrl6d Slates Oepanmenl ol Agflcutture
16rr,*,1
clTY 0f cl{ANt{AssEN
REd::3'"'ED
JAN 6 :1I,3
(]HANHTS$ PtAililltrc out.
A* United States
@ffin:f'll,::'"
zls r""t (o.rtage Road
Waconla, Mlnnesota 55387
(Soil
Conservation
Service
subi€cr: CUP /i87-18, WAP 1|87-L4
To:
Date: January 5, f988
Barb Dacy, Clty Planner
Clty of Chanhassen
690 Coulter Drive, P.0. Box 147
Charhassen, MN 55317
A-ttached 1ir.,:rse flnd a so:'.l rnap sheet sholrirg the apgroximate plat
bouudaries. Single sheet soil descriPtions are also included. Be
sure to revi-,ll{ these materials. Thls inforrnation ls for general
planrr:ing Baterials onlyl for site sPeciflc questions consult a
qualified soils engineer,
The prlnciple source of Potential soil related difficulty is apparently
s1ope. The general develoPment aPproach see[s correct. RevegetatLng
dlsturbed areas will be critical and should be done at the earliest
opportunity. Recornmendat ions are as follows:
2. The cut slope on the northwest corner and the channel on the east
side w111 be the uost difficult areas to re-establlsh into vegetation'
Storm r.rater runoff veloclties for the design storm should not exceed
4.5 fps or vegetatlon will be very difflcult to establlsh. Cut slopes
and fill stopes should not exceed 3:1.
1. A temporary dlversiou along the entire uPPer slope above the grading
site may prove very helpful in reducing guJ-1y darnage to newly graded
slopes and channels on the site.
3. The plan calls for putting the hay bales 6r' below grade.
size bale tends to be about 18" x 18" or the end' Does I ft.
give adequate sediuent entrapment caPacj.iy?
The average
above grade
4. Seeded areas should be mulched tith an anchored mulch. Sod should be
staked otr sodded areas.
Please call with yo qu tions.
crTY 0f 0HANHISSEII
RE;::i'"'ED
JAN 6 1:ca
cHmHrs$ Pt ilil[rc otPr-
an 1e
Distr
I.Iendland
Conservationist
Enc .
o The Soil Conservation S€rvice
is an agency of lhe
United States Department ol Agriculture
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RESOURCE ENGINEEdING
permit
bo th
December 30, 1987
JoAnn Olsen, Assistant PlannerCity of Chanhassen
Box 147
Chanhassen, MN 55317
Re: Planning Case 87-18 CUp; Admiral Sanitation
Dear JoAnn:
From the information provided to us by a site map. soilboring logs, and percolation test data, the proposed iitesappear suitable for the installation of an onsiie sewagetreatment system for domestic wastes. The daily sewage flowis estimated at 450 gatlons per day. This shouid be ;nadequate estimate for a full bathroom in the office andone-half bath in the shop area unless there is excessive useof these facilities. The number of users of thesefaci I it ies were not stated.
This letter is in regard to the conditional userequest from Ailmiral Sanitation which involves theinstallation of an onsite sewage treatment system fortoilet and truck wash wastes.
The reason for this recommendation is that when trucksor cars are washed or are in a service bay, there is likelyto be used engine oi1, hydraulic fluid and otherpetroleum-based products containing hazardous wastesintroduced into the drainage system. These materials willnot be filtered or removed by the soil, and if they flowinto a subsurface soil treatment system, they wiII percolatedownward with the erater through the soil and be a pitentialhazard for groundwater contamination. Many petroleumproducts contain pCB's and other toxic chemi-als, which nustbe handled and treated in a nanner that will prevent theirintroduction to the envi ronment.
It is also proposed that the rdash and rinse water froma pressure truck washer be introduced into the sewagetreatment system. We strongly recommend that this ihouldnot be allowed, and that all car or truck washing erastesshould be collected in a holding tank and hauled from thesite to be treated in a facility that can handle such
vras tes .
it.1 50
SPECIALISTS IN ONSITE SEWAGE TREATMENT #(
{
Rogc'r E. Machnreicr. P.E.
29665 Ncal Avcnuc
Lindstrom. MN 55045
(612) 257-2019
Jantcs L. Andcrson. C.PS.S.
35.11 Ensign Avcnuc. Norlh
Ncw Hopc. MN 554,
(612) 593-53lti
i ,-(1
In addition to the service bay drainage and petroleumproducts, it is likely that during the winter, road
chemicals wiII be washed from vehicles and introduced to thedrainage system. If these are discharged into a subsurface
absorption system, the soil $ri11 not adequately treat thesewater soluble chemicals and they will also move downwardwith the percolating water and be introduced to the
groundwater.
To ninimize the amount of liquid wastes generated by acar and truck erasher and to ninimize the amount that will
need to be hauled from the site, an option that could beinvestigated is a water recycling system which we understandis used at some commercial car washes.
S i nce re Iy,
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mes L.
RESOURCE
JLAlj jm
Anderson, C.P
ENGI NEER I NG
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CITY OF CHANHASSEN
WETLAND EVALUATION WORKSHEET
REFERRAL AGEIiCY COITMENTS
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DATE OF INSPECTION t/cl
S IGNATURE alt-l,-l2,e-^-.^-eta_tr,
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CITY OF
EHINHISSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE . P.O. BOX ,I47
' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
MEIIIORANDUt4
TO: Barbara Dacy, City
FROM: Steve Madden, Fire
DATE: November 30, 1987
SUBJ: Admiral- Sanitation
Planner
Inspector
Plans
U pon
mus t
review of the plans for Admiral Sanitation, the following
be i ncluded:
I
2
3
A fire lane nust be instailed around
roadway inust be 20 feet rn width and
face (Ord. 62-A, Section 10.207).
buit<iinq. This
an aLL vreather sur-each
have
)
6
Lighted exit signs must
Life Safety Code 5-10 ).
be installed at aII exits (Crd. 62-A,
A plan for storage of flammable and/or combust.ible material
must be submitted to our office for approvai.
Emergency lighting
Code 5-9 ) .
must be installed (Ord. 62-A, Life Saiety
The items are required to insure early detection and suppression-
This building must be sprinkled (ord. ii2).
This building must
a central di spatch
have a heat and smoke detector system with
( ord. 62-A, 10 . 3 01) .
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1,/15/88 Update: Condition #1 is recommended to be removed since
tle topography of the site prohibits such an access drive'
Because of the smal1 size of the building and the fact that it is
being sprinklered outweighs the need for an access drive.
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Minnesota
Department of Transportation
District 5
2055 No. Lilac Drive
Golden Valley. Minnesota 55422
15. l9S8January t6l2t 593. 84O3
in accordance
lie fiDd the
tlre lo ll,)wints
Ms. Barl)ara Dac! , Cit]' P.lamrer
Cit,y of ffie ekv.*Fjjz,
690 Coulter Drive. P.O. Box 147
Chanhassen, llN 55317
Dear !1s. Dacy;
l{e ale in receipt of the above referenced plnt for our reviewuith llinnesoLa SLa[utes 505.02 aud 505.03 ptats and Surveys.plat accept;rble for further development r*itir considera[ion of
comments :
Mn/DOT offirs access control along the south botrndary of this plrt andtherefore no access to T,H. 212 ui-ll be gr:ruLe(t. NoLe T.II. 212 islabeled as "Higtrway No. L69" on the plac.
The proposed access to T.It. 101 nill require a permiL and specilic
design details for the enc.rance can be rorl:ed out. rr,het appli.catiun is
rnade for the pemit. The entrance as proposed on the fll;lt daLed Dec.29, 1987. appears to be acceptable. ir,e do suggest. chat Ctre approachgrade !o T.H. 101 be designed as flal as possible arrd 30' rad.ii be
used off of T.II. 101.
If you have
aL 593-3537.
S inc
u iaw or
any ques t ions
fharrk you
irr reg,rrd Eo Lhis revier{, please ,:ontect EYln Creenr your coope-r-ation in this matter.
)a
Districe Engineer
cc: Steve Keefe - Metropolitan Council
Roger Gustafson - Carver Count).JAN 1 5 1988
CITY OF cHANHAssLN
An Equal Opportunltg EmploAer tt7
Re: S.P. 1013/1009 - TH.2tZlL9l - plar Revie$of Admiral Sanitation located in che NE
QuadranE of T.H,2t2 & T.H.101 ftr Ciry of
Chanhassen, Carver County
- In the past. Chere has lreen severe grourrdriaLer problerns to the easc ofthis area rshict: has caused so*e r.adwaf ici,g p.obreus, rherefore, iLis suggesced f-hat che derel:pnent not be allr:red !o ixtpact the e:iislitrg
tt'e Llend irre. r.
To Frorr
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Date SigneC
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WETLANDS MAP
APPROVEO JU|_Y 23, '9A4
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f.ll.! Th. follortnS ar. ttrmitl.d acrctsorv us.1 in a !8ll' rlirllicl:
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a- Sdc.rEd oud@r 3ior.a.
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shall bc obscn.d in a "BH" Disricr subj.cl to addir ional r.quircrdlrs,
. 3. Minimllm Lo( Frontat.: tm fc.r {.rc.pr loB fronring on . crl-d.-
5.c shall hatr r minimum 60 foor fronla$ in .ll disrricLi).4. Mirimum Lor Dcprh: 150 f..t.5. Sdbrcls. Off{lrc.t p.rlint ar..s $all comply with ett yard r.-
quiGncnts of rhi! Sc.!ion, dccp( thar no rcar yard parkiot 3abact
sbr[ b. r.quir.d for bts dircdly rbufiing railroad rrack.g!; and,
oo tirrc yad !ha[ b. r.quir.d ehcr adjoiniry conmdcial us.s
csi.blish joinr otf-srr.d psrl(ina facilirics. a5 providcd in S.cdoo
7-l-7, .r.cpa rh.t no parkir8 arcas rhall b. p.rtniflcd in any r.quncd
- sid. {rcn sidc yard. Minimum r.ar yard shdl b. 50 f.€l for tols
dircctly .buttinS lny R6id.Iltial DisEicr. Sid. strc.r lidc y.rds shatl
bc r minimum of 25 fccr.A. Fronr yardi 25 f.a.B. R.ar y.rd: 20 fcGt.C. Sidc F d: l0 f.ci,6. Maxinum Lor Cov.r.&: 657.
7, MlrimuD H.ight:A. Pdncipal SuudurE: t!r,o srori6
. B. Aecssory Struciuna: on. nory.
SECTION 12. 'CBD" CSMTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICTtt2-l INIENT. DouDrour hicr d6rdogoctr. suppo.tins. sroot eotrd
busitrcaa di$L.r whiL crh.ltcint ah. ovcrall chrraatcr of thc cfiimud.
ty in conforDsica with dow own rldcvclopoa|t pl,Il, fo.b sad
obicdiv.a.
tl2-2 Th. folori.f urr rr! Frllircd in . "CBD" dbt icl:I. Borlitrs ccnt t
L R.[il shopr,. ofrB
a. SL!&td rBt8rarrt
5. Lhuor nor!6. E r..trirE.or
7. Cev.oiion rad cod6cnc. fa.iliti.t& Finlrci.l iD{iaurioor
9. Hcrtt c.Ir frcilirk!
l0-I{drhll. SC..hIy r!r.n Gbcbdins hr ot foitrd to j.'rdrr, boot, n .
riroarr, bDL, cano6a, paar, .Ilt ard o'dtt, Soiir! tooda)
12. SuDcrE.rtct
13. S.E lca!.d d.t elt ca .r .! I.n of CroDDiaS c.nr.r
14. Pqto[.l raw-c cl.lb5lbDantt
lr. $ogd!! c.otrt
16, tlc.ii .rd lt(i.rlfur clutr
t7- F.rt food rl'uurrr.3 t' Fn of tboDDin! 6Gt
ll. Udlit, Evi..t
lr. F.r5o.l r.wiar.
,. ADpartl t b.
2l- Bat Ed aavarra
22- Grh. rd lodt .
zl- Cdvrrirar aoira rliant lra IuEFZ. Orlurrl frcilitilr
25. D.rirDanr torra
26, HoG fumaldqr?. Nd8.r.r of6cc3
,. Mu[iDL f.dil, drdlillr, iDdudina $ior .iriz.r houdor
P. IttiDa rtor.
:tr. Colutiia, aiiE
,1. H.dr.rc too&tl2-3 Tt foloriat .r. !.rEioad a.c!.rory uG b . .CBD" diruir:l. Prtit3 b...!d rrrF
2. !i-ntl+a Tb foloriu .r! @dirira.l lE b r (CED" dbrb:l. T.aF..ry drdoo. di.DL, d Ech&dira a6 rL2. Frr.aDdirr tA food rt{.[r.Ot. F rDar'r Mrrll{ CorlriE ro.c rtt lat ,trtrrFtl2.t L(. lcquir.oaar.!d ScrbrA.. Th. iolorha hiriEUE ]leuircto.rn$tI b. obGrd h r 'tCD" Dirric rrbi! b ddiriod E$lila.aat!q.cfnc &d .odi6.rb6 .t fo.$ i! lhn diarE-
6.
t.
9.
t0.
ll.
12.
ll.
ll-
lJ.
t6.
l?.
t8.
t9.
Itinnlur! rolf
Srrrc tcclscd day c.rt c.otcr {
,r.. (r)
.c {ll r.,l
Coovmi.n<! ior. *kh ot $ithoul lE! Putrp3
Pctlonal !.wict .slablithmcnr
Hahh !.T!ic6
Utility lcrl ic.'
Shopping ccntct
Privsk clubr and lodSca
, lot, shrll
J b..ch
!d loii
,hkh h.3
-id.rtid
l.d ruDr
rd3, rlld
.ill ror b.
t.
'c fifrity
DISTRICT
in wirlrh,. [o*int
ghr-lin.
€r. Thc
of lcngth
5-l+l INTENI. AccomEods. lioit d coamccial u!.s withour urbar
5-l+2 Th. folowht 3It condidoul us6 in a "BP' ditrict:
l. Auromotivc lcrvica $adon e/hhoui ca, sash€s
2. Trud/Trailcr r.[l!l
3. Utiliry lcrvis4. Ourdoo. dirphy of dcrch.ldis. for s.lc5. Cold nora$ .nd *.IlhousiDt+l Tlt followioS ,I. p.rmitt.d ..ccssory us.s in. "BF" disricrl Pa*ir8 brs2. SiSns
SECTION 14." FRINCE BUSINESS DISTRICT
SECTTON 15. -O
t orh.i-
=.
nas.. No,r,y,!
l4-{ Lot Rcquir.m.nts .!rd Sctba*s. Th. fo0owing minimum rcqoircmarB
3h.rll bc obscrvcd ir a "BF" Dicrid !ubj.r6 io addition l .cqui'dnclB,
.rc.prio6 ard modifrcrtiont !.t fo(h io this Ordin.nc..l. Minimum Lo! Arc.:20,000 squaE fca.2. Minimum Lot FronoSc: lO0 f!.t (.xccpl lol. fronairy on r orldc-' sa .h.ll hal/! r tahimum @ fooa f.onr.8c in s[ distd.r.).3. Midmuln Lot DcpU: 150 f..r.4. M.ximum Lot Covcragc: rO9..
5. Sctbacks. Off-.E€.t pa*hg rllas shrll compty with aI lird rE-qutdnd ! of rhb Scctbo, .xc.F rhsa D tlar y.rd partin8 i.tbac&rh.[ b. rEquirrd fo] Id dn.ctly abuoirg ratuo.d r-.d.f!i .nd,' m rirc f.rd lhrn D. rcquircd sh.!.djoi.i.f commlrcial 016
Gtablbh joitr! off{Ec.r Frtirg f.diai.s, a3 provid.d in S..iioo
7-l-7, a.+ lba m p€Iths !r!.. sh.[ b. Fmitcd h atry rcquir.dlilc dln idc ytd. Minioum rc.r yld sh3l b. 50 fc.r for bt!
drllclly .buntA .!y R6ilartid Disnicr. SidG strld sid. y&dr 3lnl
bc r nhiEum of 25 f.ci itr' ill di.lricl!.A. FroDt yad: 25 fc.t.' B. Rar !ard:20 fca.C. SUG ,rd: t0 fccr6. M.xi6um H.i!hi:A. Paincipal StrudrE: oor laory
5.15-l INTENT. Pub[c o. qusi-publk oonD.ofit urs rnd profBdoDrl"
brsid.!. aod rdEiairtntiv. officaa-
5-15-2 TIE folosint usc. .E FDind ir !r ..OI" dbtri:r:l. Sdoolr
2. Churrhr33. Publh hildiD,a. Pon orfE
5. Fr.lrdoo6.Uby
?. MuraorDl. H..tf Eri(a/hoqinb9. Nuriat hoDr.
lO. CGnuniry ccnirrll. Pub[c rc.rr.lin l ti.iliri.r
12. Urility EYiE
13. PrDf.r.kh.l tud!.i., r[d id66i.E tivc officla
la. FrEd ho6..,-lt Th. fonorbt.tt p.rEi!.d r..r!.q, us tr ., .OI" dbarir:I. PEti!3 loar2. SitE
t-tta TtG folorha rl! oldirion l l|s h !i. <)f'dbnid:l. Ad{rirt rrtr of rEd DoUt .r Fiv.G dool hldilfa for
Driv& tuai6 uraa.J-1,, Lor nquircootn.!d S.rbr.h ?h. foSorht oiniDur! r.quindao6dl bG ob..rrd b . .OI'. Diirb tsbi!.r b .ddiairo.l ,.qid6.rr+
.rrcraio!3 ed D.dific.dod *. forrt b thb OrdinrEl. Miniduo Ld Ara: lJ.O@ {u.E t l.2. MbiduE Ld F.ooa.f!:7j ft.a (arr[ btr trodilf or r oldc.8 rhatr b.E . oinitul! O fod tt6r.a.I3. MhinrD Ld D.rtt: t.5o fcr-,4. MariEultt Ln coyrraSa: 6ri,, Sab..t!. O{l{E .i F tbt r... *rtr .oddy r .f
'.rd
t!-quiracrnof tbirS.dn,.ac.pa rh.l b,r- y.rd putilt..tb.d
rhd bG nCrild for bt3 dirdt, .to!i!t rtiko.d r..frc .!4 */3
,. Eqlipd6t..nt.la. s<.cn.d @tdoo. 3ron!.
J. M.ior .uto ttpair.ncr.'e shoDs
5-ll-5 Lor Rquir.m.nls and s.lti Th. follo*lnt minimum rcqurr.m.nts
shdl t,. ob!.fl.d in a'BC"l,tl'icr subrcct lo addttrond r.qurr.rndrls,
.rc.ptionr .nd modific.donr sd fonh ir rhir Ordin.n€!.
l. Minimum Lor A]! : I,u)o lquar. f..r.
2. Minimum Lol Fronugcr l00 rc.l (.xccpt lots frontinS on a clllde'
s* rhau halr a minimum 60 fod fronu*E in .I districrs).
3. Minimum Lol D.plh: IJO fc.l.
4. Marimlm lor covcragr: 70t.
J. S.lbacls. off-strcct parkio8 lrlas drsl comply eifi a[ yard rc-
quiran.nB of thir sccrion, cxc.Dr $.r m rar y.rd parling sabac*
shal bc rcquircd for bls di.ccdy abunin8 railroad trackaS!: and.
no sidc yad $a0 bc rcquir€d vhln adjoiniry comm.Icial us€s
.saablilh joint off-slrect parting facililics, as providd in S.clion
7-l-7, ac.pr fir oo partiru &as Crtll bc Frmilt€d b anv r.quircd
!id. su..t sidc y.rd. Minimum r.t ysrd slBU bc 50 fc.t fo. lol5
diRcrly rbullins any R6idcndal Distticl. Side s!r.a sid. r.rds shall
bc r minimum of 25 feet.
A. Front yad: 25 fcd.B. Rc.r ,ard: 25 f..t.C. Sil€ rard: l0 fccr.
5. Maiimum H.ithr:A. Pdo.ipal Snucru..: thrc. sro.i6/i() fc.t
i
I
i
Et lo.s ko.tinr o r dkt+tr rhdl
.: rorica/{ faar-
Y RESIDENTTAL DTSTRICT
aI srbdivtio$.
intll"RSF'disrti.:il
r lor trdrc or fcra ciiklrta
wiog aL d f€xd garso8
Sis6 {
OrE do.t
J{-4 ThG fouowin! &. coodition l us.t iD .n "Rl2" diltrict:
l. H.ahh erc faciliti.s
2. D.y (.r! c.tt t
3. Berdir8 hou!6
,1. Croup homa s!ftin! fiom acvctr to 3itlcatl pcllons
,. R.s..tion l b.rdr lotj. 5. T.EFrrry .cal c tc dficc aDd modd homa
7. O[rEh.5
5{-5 Loa Rquircm.aB.rd Sdb.ctr. Th. fouowing minimum r.quir.ttr6tl5
d.l bc obr.wld io .! 'q_12" Dituid $bi.d to .ddiriond r._
ouira cota, aicaprioDa rrd Dodificatiolrs !d fonh in lhi5 friDatlca.
'i. ld .r!r: ?,5(n tqutr fccr F dYdling for Mofrmitv dwdlin$i
ldD qu.rc f.a p.t dwdli4t utria fo. loenhous.. .nd nulti_family
drdlinll
2. Ld Fro;6rr: JO f..t Ft d*dlitrg uo for reofenilv dydlings ('a'
(!D. th.r lotr fronlilu otl . culdc'5s rhrll b. 50 fcd h width rt
tli truinr :rtrcr [nc fot lecfrE v drdli!8');
jJO f.a fa tdrnhou!.t ltd tnulrigL feilv Proicci..
3. lr. D.pth: l5J L.r.
a, M.rimua Ld Cov.r.8.: lsi
5. Sdb.dt:
A. Frc r.rd:2J f..t
B. Rc.r ,..d: 25 f.fl.
C. Sil. y.rd: l0 fcca.
5. Marimum H.i8hr:
A. Principal stucur!: thn iotics/4o f..t.
l. Aac6sory Suuair,tar: o[c saory/IJ f..1.
SECTION 9. STANDARDS FOR CONDTTIONAL USES IN
AGR,ICULTURAL AND RESIDENTTAL DISTRTCTS
,-!!l tn addilion to lhc sondatds rcquircd by 3'2_3' thc folloPins shndatds
rha0 apply to thc conditionsl u..s list.d b.low:
l. 8.d.nd 8r..ktai Enrblishmcrt
A. Tt{o (2) off'str.a psrki4 spacs plu5 onc (l ) addilional spac'
p.t tcnlsl rooe mus b. Providcd;
B. Th..! sh.ll bc no morl lhan on tdplov.. in addition to th'
'taircatsi' C. Es.blistm€nt mun bc o*ncr octupi€di
D. Thcrt shal bc 5 or bi. room5 tor rentl .nd
E. TIl. roolDs ihatl trot b. rlol.d for m6. thrn 7 concsrlivc davs
to dtc lanc F!on(l).
2. Group Hom.s fo. 7_16 P.tsons
A. ihc lru€url 6lrr b. in coDplirncc wilh thc aai! lic'nsint
raquircftnt;'' n rr. !r-ou.. .usa b. itl @EDli.ncc with bc.l buildin8 tnd
" fir! cod..i
C. TL .it! riu bc llei.rd tmu.[y throuth . Frblic h"'ing Eo_
caas: lnd
D. S.ptic syst.r$ musl bcin cornplancc with Ordinanc! No l0B'
Individu.al Sd.ar Trt t'trcfl Svnans'
3. Coomacirl K.rnds' Sbbks e Riding Acad'mi"
' 4. Tlt rrucut! llttt bG b aospli'n.. aith Hdsc diiurlc No'
,6;. g. Tha dr. must bc bcalcd on a collcctor $'€t; alrd
C. Th. lrltclurt Dut bG. dininurn of 2m fccl from w'rlard
2.
!.
a.
5.
6.
7.
rimum lot sir! of fiv. .crca.
fhc fo[orint [lhimum Equir.rn nts
'' Disrrid subjcd io addilional t -
ficationi $i fonh in thir Ordina[ca
fiat lots frorihtoo.o ia-tac atttr
ildiry .c.b!ck linc).
[.rrudult tnd pcrd srf..tt: 25t.
:rory us.. in.o "ESF disui.'t:
6 i. r "RSF distrid:
ovtioos of ihc hols ordin.rr.
=ory ur. h ttr "R-4" dinrir:
6brn"R-4"dkEid:'
Ib folorirs Einimrm Equit dntt
rid srbit !o.ddniro.l ]!q!n. 6ti
fonh i! thn dir....
t r.ch.d dDxlc-f.mily dvdliaS uliii
oi f6 tro-f.nit d?dlirlt'
,.J.dl, d'driEi Jo fGGr F drdl-
ntr (.rc.t lhra lolt fmrdrf oo r cul_
.l rhc t rMin! Gb..t lir6 fo. dr8k_
fa no-frrily dr,. ia!t'
x rtl,.trtt3 rnd Fvcd $tf.r..: 30't.
A. Ttrlsisnon togE ttot d6itrtcd to colhp.. pro8rEsiv'lv dtdl
b. i.t bact from all DroDctlv lin6 a minimum disl.nc. .qual
!o lh! h.i8hl of th. toe(r.
A. Th. sitc fliult ba orr I coucclor ltra.t or minor ancaid as ilcn_
dfi.d in thc colnPr.h. ivc Plmi
B. Fivc acr. [linimum lot iiz.i
c. All.roraB..td yatd .r!a! a! td! rs buttdinp Eun bc sd bad
lm fc.r from public or p.irarc ro.d riShl_of'wavs rnd 5m f€cr .
from rn !dj.c..t sintL familv tlsidcnc.:
D. TIE sir. mulr b. b..tcd .lont r .olkdor or minor .ncri'l rr
idartifi.d iD rh. cunDt.hcrlsir,! plmi
E. Atr orldoot norrgc sr€as nur b. complEtcly ..i.artd by lm%
oDrqE fcncinS or t.t ua:
F. liours of opcetion rhrl b. trom 7 ouo.l .-lll. lo 6 o'clo.l
p.m.. Mond.y 6mush saturdrv onv (*ort on SundaF "dholidryr not p.rmittcd);
5.
a- Fiv. rr. minir[uo lot sirt;g. /ll non*c .lg ya,a utar.s wdl t! 6u diqs mus b' str ba'l
l(I) f..r lrcm pubL or Prival. rod nghl{f'waF tnd
'{tr
f'a
f.oE rn .di.aa! sin8.l. f.milv Esidcoc.i
C. Thc sitc nur b. lo<a&d eloDt r collccror o. einor 'n'ri'l 'rAarlificd in th. comPt.b.t irt Pl ;
D. All ouldoor.torrF s..s rnrr bG compLrcly t'r'6cd bv lmqr
oD.qu fcr.iag or b.tlniD!; .g.- Nio t o contrior.r y.d! $.I b. loc.t d widrin ofl' milc of
. aadr othd:_
F. Hort! of oD.rrrion shdl h. froD ? o'clocl a.m to 6 o'clocl
pln., Moodry ahrouSi S.ltrrdrv only (?ort on Sundays 'ndboli&yr mi p.rnirtcd)i
C. Lbht souIEG! !h.[ bc shi.ldcdi .ld
ard
6.
cahr,.r. lt!rl.r. t.nr. ,<r..ll6d '.n,- crcJ(.1 ,nrrnbrncd or or.d unon .nr! N-o oo3r..riaits. moro, Ehrh, hEar.tcars. truclr. hotorcrclGi. motori,( Inrcrc or sno*mobrt. ,hau tE d.lv.i rrccrealionat b..ch tot.D No rccr.rtroml bBch tor rhrl bG ul.d IE. Eoar Lunchcl arc Drohtbn.dF. \o recr€afiotlal b€ch lot ,ha[ bc -dnlgnt storaF. or or.rnrpht moodr ,rmororu.d or non.nrororrzcd *ar.tu rfionat b(rch lor ,r 3llos.d morc rhrr o,a o\at nurlrocr ot boJr\ may tc clu(.r.
ooar moo nrl .hJttat$ b. a!o*dj-r,ooJio\, anJ \nra[ lrt borh m.t h I,rc(r<rfton.l b.ach tot rt lho .rr jr ddcnincd tor tx.l purpoE. Noho..lh.,.luserl p€r do<t. No moft rh.r rr (6)*r
on a Ect. Doctins of oth6*.1 rcftfr,
bL at lny lm. orh., rhan ovcmislG. No dock sllau b. Frmhled 6ey r .
n ha at lcal 2@ f.a of l.L f.onE!. .. IOO foor dcpth. No mor. thrn o. d(
a rcrcadonal bcadr Iot fo. !".ry 2m f.,
eddirion. 30.00 qu.!t fett of land i-q
and a addnional 2O,m0 !qu.!. fco r,
rional do.l. No mor. than $r.. O, r
.rctkd on . rRratihd b.rd bL
H. No recrcrdonat bc.dr lot dck shdl sc.(
ard no such docl 3hal .rc..d th-G
l.ngths: (.) fifty (5O) fclt 6, O) ' r
disra(! n6cssary lo r.acrr a rr.t r {
eidth (bul nor thc Lnrth) ot thc so5s-bt
shap€d do.t shal bc indudcd in lh. c
d6cdd in thc pr...dint t nt nct.flE
dGt shall not maasurc it ctctls r tr
lcn8$.
I. No dock sh:ll.nctoach upon a.v docl
cd, hosctct, thd rhc own€B of .nY n
sitcs maY 6cct onc commoo dod *irli.r
apguncrd to dE abunira lrlcshol lr
ii th. onlydck on lhc ttYo hl.shor t
s,ir conforms yith lhc prcyisions or I
J. No sail bo.t moorinS shall b. pcrmittt
badt lot url6s it has it lc.i 2.m&r
mq. than onc sil boaa oooritrS sh b
f.cr of lat. fron6!8.
K. At lcart .ishty p.tcctrr (t0t ) of lbc ow'
rD9uncoltrt ridtt of ,ac!!! to r[Y ltcrE
bc ldr.d *ithir d h.n c 6qE !4ll
tion.l baadt lot.
L. A[ rt('c.lio[.l b.ech bB' iadudi t
bt'..lrb[sh.d Ddr to lh..ffCqirt s.r.
b. ut d fo. sf,imminf b.adr FrrP6...
sicrr arr clcerly dcli!.atcd wilh mqllF
lo Udt.d SLa6 Csl Cuerd *er r,
M. E..b G.tc.tion l b..d lorthdl hE I
.r tlE ordiBtY hifh *.4.t [ltl r.- a
(lm) fc.i hndv.td from th. ordin.lry h
b. $& four (1) liMl fca fq ..&d
rDPunrarnr rithB of.aE 3 to th. c
cruiru to thc orvnaB oa ocotpa[is ' +
. .pplicrbL ruli of lhc ioo@f,E! .-rs
housi4 d!vclop..!.
N. Oraoilht dctin& Doo'in& .!d llglr
allow.d. i! rastrict.d io urtctcreft n
D.trr 6 rlltcrlcuFDt ot h6 r t
of raras to tha tacr!.tfudrl baad rl
O. Th phc.D.at of do.t3, buor+ diviat
othc rtnr(lllts thdl bc indi*cd oo .
!h. Cn, Cqudl.
13. Elcrdrl rrb.Llio, trbi! ro lhc fol Y:
A. Thc ntbn lio mun b. sv.d bY t !
tlr.a 8 il.sirlrLd h ttc CocDrAco
B. Th. qrbi.ti6 ?i[ roa hrrl !.triitry fi
os.d for hlbiliairo.
C. Th. rlbrLdion rtrl b. loc&d or t
pm9.rty.
D. A tu (6) tool hith Errit, f@ lu''
E. A hdt .ffu! Dlrn bc rtEiatcd ,o.
F. Subla.tioB ihdl bG. EiEinui of -,Gitd-
SECTION IO. 'BN" NEI(;HMR}IOOD BUSI I
J-t&l NTENT. Lbit d lor intllri.t acilhborh'
d.buiio.tr! b Ela drilv d of lt3il'.trl
,-lG2 rrb tolorint trG rr! Frir.d i! r 'B-
t- C v.oire.tors aitolra all FrEP
2. Nti;hMlood odcnrad ,.llil ioF
!. Sdf...r*t bmdti!3
a. Dt, d.rniis.d hundry Di.f{D i.doo
5. DaY alE acrilr
6. Pttoo.l t tYt! .tr.blirhr"'
?. Ptlfc..irdl oIfE
S. Sodt .Bt n ..d lle t!t'i OoF
9. Harht t tYicat
10. Va.ti!l', dfub
j. tori../rl} fcat..!. rori6/zx) fc.L
iNSITY RESIDENT1AL DISTRICT
hcd n id.ntirt dlvdopd. .r. r[:r_
U unitr par .st,
r ia .[ "R-a" dinril:
I q.r $G
.?q Darro6
r fd t*dv. * fca.. diHlln
r roris/{ f..i.
!,1 DENSITY RESIDENTTAL . -
3.
oy*B $att b. dd.rmia.d by rt. Zonir' Adniniru.ro. fromr@r<tr providcd by rh. .ppticrnr.
D6i5io!.r of &c Bo.rd. Th. Bo.rd .h!U ,-- nDo,a.d lo d.cid..ppqk .nd 8ra.r tr.iDcc onry *hdr Ll cisio" or rh. Bo;J
15 Dy a uosnrmous !ota.
A 3tnplc majoriry votc ff splir vol. by rh. Eo.Id shalt s.rvc oolyai r rcco.nmcndar ion ro rtl. Ciry Council. pho sha{ rhcl malc rh.rlnar dd.rmtruuoo on rhc apFlor vui.nc. rqu.sr * hio rhidy(lO) d.)s .fi.r rcccipt of rh. Bo:.d.s acrion.
Tll. Bo.rd shal acr upon all app..b .trd variancc rcqu6r! wilhinfifr..n.(Is) dali ai6 Ol. darc of rh. chs. of thc r.{uir.a f,..ring.A![E:I Jrom Dccilions of lhc Eo.rd. Any p('sor o( pctron3, :8-8r]:-1 t'y .rry d.dsion of rhc Board. indudht rlE .ppti.anr or en-yp.rsoD o?rrng ,,rop.ny or r6id,n8 wi6io firc huodrcd O@) fc.rot uE,prop.ny to which a.vrriancc eppticatior r.tato,rniy app.Jsuch-d.c'iion lo rhc Ciry Coumit by frlinS an .pp.at *irh thc ;n.lng Admrnl5rrrror yithin l.n (t0) dr}! afr., rhc dalc of rh. Board,sd.osloo, I h<.proc.duE Sovcrnhs appals to tha Board shal alsolovcm apr,.irr to u. city council.
C.ouncil Acrion_ By majoriry ro!., rI. Ciry Councit.may l!vcfs.,dtrrm ormodify, *ho[y or panty, lhc decisioi rpplaled from th.rro:ro. atrd !o riat md lh. ciry Cotrncit shau hav. .I rh. poycrsorrh.-8o:d. Tl|G Council $aU dcciL aX app..ts *irhin &i;y (3Oiory! ltcr rhc datt of fic nqun.d h.zrinS lhElon.uau.r. va1.rE6 mey bc dain by dl. Board and lhc Councit, andsudr da$.ICratl consrlut a findin8 ard d.r.minarbn $ar rhc con-oruonj Equrrcd for apDroval do ml droAdi.orfPirlrcul D.EEion. tf no d..ijion i5 Ean3mi[.d by rhc B6dIo_ur. Urty Councit yi$in dxty (60) dar frotrl dr€ d.t of al| .p-p.ar ortananc. r.qu6r ! fil.d wfi rhc ZonbS Adminisrraror. rtrc
::,|:u may tzlc acrion on rh. rcqu.rl h accodarc. wirh rhc pr(!ccour.s 8ov.mina th. Bo.rd, wihour funhcr rvaitinS rhc Board !
tRha 6..... o, trE (j) ft!6 o. tcrr ooda ot thc hcsm! th.I b!mar.d 1 |c 't rcD Oo) d.r. b.JoG rh. .r.r. or hc.nn. ro .ir, o,.:ror prop.rrt rrlnrr oE .r- r ,- !.d b b. dExd !d ow.d .a nrdp6ry rru.r.d *holly.r Fr . wirhin fiv. hundEd (rmr rer oiocproFny to whid rh. .nr.rornol r.l.rcs. TtE fait,rrc oi. D;;;;oyEr ro '!c.iv. nodcc rr sg.ciiiod ttrcin Jrell rrcr inrrlrerc rii iririlnc.rlnt or ti. rDdldm.nr prrccdirs. wh.E eppropri.r., mricc a.|lalso bc livao ro .ffacl.d hom.o*rE,i aslociations.
lf a d.v.bpmot i! propojrd .djacdlt to. ht. or wiu .tf.d rhc rscof th. hlc, lh. applic.nl shall providc th. City strh
" li" of _o-oJ,owncrs sbuuiq thc htc d $. rirnc of ipplkrion. Th. City ,[.['pi.'-vid. m.ild noricc !o rh. hlc homcorrn rs ar io cornptirrr.. *dU,cprEc.du.6 ebow. Thc zppli{:d i, rceorlsibL for ,lcttiiA *;t "ffc.rJhomcowrEr!.
l'3-a Commirsion Aciion. Followint conclusion of rhc Dublic h.arin! }ild
Dy lhc ptannmg Co.nmrstio[ rh! Corlmirrioo sirti rcpon iB fin-dingr.nd Ecommdrdariotrs dr rhc Dropoccd emandmmt ,o rt. coro"it. iim r.pon of r.cqDmlad.rirr i, rranrnitl6d by th! pfraafU Commis-sioo wirhin s ry (60) days foUowitr! ,rf.Ed ;f ,h. ;;;;i;;;coofiisstoo, lh. Council ma, tal. acti(r on drc aman&omr yilhort
.wairi[g $rch .lcommmd.tioD.
3-3-i CourEil Acrion. Fottowht ptannid8 Conrrhiliioo.considcrarion q' touE crtrrerl(,n ot ni rcva'r pcrir, dr Couoci In.y .dopt thc .rnad-
mctrt or rny p..r lh6.of in $ch form .s h d.cnrs advisaltc, r.iccr th.dncrdmml, or rets ir ro rtc ptrnninS Commissio,r f; i;;;considcradoo.
SECTION 4. BUILDING PERMTTS, CERTIFICAIES OF OCCUPANCY,
FEES3{-l Buildinr P.rmir!.l. No t*rrson shsl .ract, corlllrud, .hcr, .[h4a, ,Gprir,.mova orranor.. i'ry buildiru ot s{ruourt or pan rhacoi *ittorr in.r ,.";-mt . ouddtnS DCrEir.
oindy (9O) days or qrbsranrialr
folowing thc dar. of th. issuancc
ffi;6',;
A oorEoororr
dcrrc. h.y t
tid.d rh.r r..dsrs. .td nr insL-f.nil
3-J-7 Nonhd M:in
b p.mlincd.
3-5-t l$ucd pcrlnit
,lans, constru
. buildinS F!
diDrnc., pmr
aaaordht io :
th. dat! of is
3-5-9 Shru. of v.
Dd.lorrn6r!
dcsdoFEnr f
tL uaa or irt
d.lmcd allor.
od ar a condil
not Ecciv.d aif if lhq nc
sEcTtoN 6. SITE3+r Approval ncq
mcndarion of I
phtr applicatio
ly disaricrs rr.
don of a buih
of urc, hcludi.
quir. sir! pLn3+2 Erccpriotrj. T
rpprcvat:
l. Cooluu.tit
lial buildin
2. EnlarBdncr
,loor afta
vid.d rh.t3. Chanr6 in
dang. doa
r6uh in an3-63 Applicarjotr. Ai
ty Plam.r at Iw..h iD rdv.n
to b. considcral. Evidcac. ot2. Tlrc apptict
3. Cmplcr. si
llnd$aF a
followin8:
A. CENE
l) Na
2) Na
cot
3) Lclit) Da
shcJ) vi.
nal
6) DE
tur(
cynEn
8) Tat
a)
b)
c)
d)
c)
f).8)
SECTION 2. CONDITIONAL USE PERM ITS3-2J Purpcc. Condirionat u:cs inaudr ttosc u!.s which ar! mr usualy allos-.d *ithin $G ,onin8 disrrid, bu ebidr may under somc circumsranccb. suitabl.. Thc applicanl shall hav.rhc burdar of proof rh3l rhc ur.is suilabb d $a. rh. sendard! 5a fonh h lhn S.dioo havc bc.n rd.rl-2-2 Applicarion, pubtic H.arior,Noricc . ProccduG. Th. appticadoD,public hcarins, publt nolic ard procoduE rcquirandls for €ondirional
usc pcrmiG shal b€ rhc sam. as lhos. for ammdmmB a! providcd mAnicle III, Sccrion 3 .xctpa lhat rh. pcmir rhajt b. issu€d on rh. af-
2. An applicldon for a britdins Frnit shal bc madc ro rh. City ona forll| furnrshed by rhc Ciry. AU buildins p.rmir applicadons sh.llb! accompanit by . rirc platr dnwo ro scah showing rhc dimcn-sions of dE lor io b. buih u pon and tha siz. and localion ofclrsting slru.llr.s and rhi buildin8 to bc €rcctcd, off-sircct parlint
arld lo.din8 fa.ilili6 ard sudr o$Gr in fo.mari@ as may b. d.sn-cd ,E6s.ry by lhc Chy to d.r.rminc compliarc. wnn $i! alld oah.rlad us. ordinanccs. No boitd int p.mi $aI bi issucd foriu connjcl eirh lh. provilions of fiir Odin.rE . Thc Cily shall issuca buildirS pcrmir onty afrt dcr.rmininS lhar rhc .pplicariol aodplans comply wiah lh€of rbir Odinancc, rt. SlalcBuildinsCod. and orhd appticebL law and ordin.nc6.l. If rhc wat d6dib.d in rnt bund rlg p.rmn is nor bcgu[ witnin
srb@issioB r.quircd !o
ority of rh. dlrir. CourEit. Atlhoush sccificcqnpla! an .pplic.rioo for a conditional uscp.rmit E y lary wirh thc sp.cific urc and rhc di.lrid ir ehich t is
, ![ appli:atioff for sudr p.rmi6 mur irtctud. ar
site plrn that cLarly illusrlarcs th. foloe in8: proros.d land Ls. buitdingmappirS ind funcrionr, circutarioo ard parhng ara!. ptandnS ar.asand E atmal sigr bcatio[s and !yDa.bari: tthrin8 conccms. th. EIa-limlhip of dE pmpo!.d projccr to r.iShboriry us6, .nvirouncnBl in-pacis ard d.mand for M
3-2-3 Srandard!. Th. Plannin8 Commission shdl Ecommcnd a condidonat i4-2Council shdl issu. sudr condirional us€if k fird5 lhar sldr u!. .r lh. prorrc!.d krariotr
3-4-3
344
complded eirhfu ooc (t)
lh6cof, said pcrmir ftayvoid ar rhc dircrcrion of rhc Zooiq Adminisrraror uDo; submis-.ion of docum.nt.d cvidcn c.. Wirtm oodcc &.rcof shall b.EanrDi .d by &€ City ro p.rmh holdcr, sra.inS rharau$orizcd by lhc .xpircd pcrmit .hal c!as. urdcss 6dbuildins pcrmir has b..n
I. W nor b. d.rrD.ntal !o c.ndanS!, th. pubUc lr.atrh, saf.ry, com-
. torq conv.niorc! 6r tarcral wclfaE of rh. nciShborhood or rhe Ciry .2. Will b. coNkrenr_with th. objccri!6 of rle bny,s Comprcr,cnsiJcFlall and lhir Ordin.nc..!. wil bc.!6itn.d, .oNrrud.d, op;rEd and truinaincd so to b.c@padbb h appcaranc. *irt rrr crisring or ur.ndcd Oaraari oiiDc t Dfr.l viciniry tud will nor dt.nt. rhc .s!.oriat charaqcr of
4. WiU nor bG h.rsrdous or dirrurbiDg ro aisring c ptrnn.d rEighbor,qt usar.5. Will bc s.w.d adcquar.ly by cas.ntiat pubtic facihi.s .nd s.Fic.r.ucluduu nrclll! polic ald alrE prolccriotr, dreineg. sruourcs,rcru!. Ospal, wa!.r alld $es sysrams lnd ichoohi or will bG s.ft,
€d adcquerdy by such faciliai.s ard lcrvicrs p.ovidcd by ihc;cr-
soE3 o. e&mi.s ,lsponsibL for thc GsLblishedrt of rtJpropdsca
6. Will tror cc.l. dccalirc rEquircm.'tB for public f.ciliri6 and 3.r-vtcri .nd will no. bc d.r.im. al r,o rh. cconorirE *ctfarc of th.commuaity.7. Wi]l.trol i,|vo_le. us.r. ..liviti.s, pro..ts.s, EaErirts, cquipmdt andcotrd,tbm o, op.rari, rha *iI b. d.rrir0.irrd b -ry Dcrroos. pro-Fty o. rhc rEncr.l ydf.r! ber of ac6.iv. proiucrior oi;.f-fiq oois., !dot.. frl,Irls. dart, odoR, rod.ot+ or rr.!b.t. Will-_h.v. v.hilrhr .ppro3ch.. 0o rhc prop.rty which do nor cr.et.Ir: |E cont stloo ot int.rfcE wirh l,affic oo surroundi4 publicthoroughf.E .9. WilI nor rcsrtr in lhc dcanuciioo, lo.s a damrac of sotar a.t.sr,
. - nrrrI.l, rcanic or hislora tcarurG of mair signific.nc..
10. will bc .6lh.rically compadblc eirh thc ard.
Cmifical.s of Occupalcy.l. ln ,ftordanc!.wflh th. Unjform Buitdint Cod., a ccnificat. of c-cupancy sndt bc obr.ain.d b.toc: (i) eny nona8ricrhural buitdir!-lrcll,r.r G-lssory hlildlng. hcr.afEr G!.Ld a $uctunllv ajrcr;rs-occuprcd or u5.d; .rd (ii) thc us. of rny .xislin8 nonagricukural
- ?uulltr8.cxc_cpr ao acc6sor) buildinS, i, changcd.z, Apliciri-on for a c.nificaE of ccup.ncy sfiall b. mad. to lh? Ciwas pan ot oE.appticaticr for . buitdins pcrmn. A c.nificalc of o..-cupaircy 3na[.b€ isu.d by lh. cily fo[o*int complcrioo of rhcDu ornt Frlnn acdviry..td a da.rminerion Uar rh. building ;r[s propos.d ur. complic! ehn lhir Ordin.oc. and $c pro;ioBof any prfinl jisu.d purlr.nr hcrao. To thc cr&ar praclic.bL rc.nificar. !h.U b. irsucd within r.[ (tO) day3 aJcr rhc cooptctioooli_D-uudrg p.rnn rcriviry_Tb. Cfty may iriu. a rdrp"o; ;:urrcar. ot ocaupaEy fo, r Friod nol lo .xc..d sir (6)InirrU," *frc"worl pursu. b a buildinS pcrmt i! in progrcss. A ccrlitjcal. ofoccapafty shall^atso.o titui. a t[irding cod. c.nificr,"
",
,.quiJDy MDD.rora Sarur6 t6.t5t
J!6. F:i.end $!rs.. for prDc6sirs apptcariotrs iratr b. .shblishcd.ry r6otul(,o of th. Couocit_
Gradina and Erosion Contol.l. Wh.ncv.r- d.rm.d D..6r.r], a latisfadory .rosron conEot .ndg1:88 el.n mur bc .ppmv.d by ttE Ciry Ensh..r bcfor! ;Durdmg pcrm is issr.d for oonsl'ucrion. Said dan ir to addEsso.a{il. sr.dinS acrivni.. I ycl .s pror.ctbn oi .d.ia.cttr slopcs,
:_"-:1"t., pood!. drainaaeways. w.rtatrlrs, .nd dlvdod
h)
i)
B smE Pil) Pror
2) cral
fcafi
proD
3) All t
nuu
isrirT
.od4) Vdri
i)
2 l:uljcroJv s-adin8 .nd dosioa conkol plan !b![ provid. spor.rcvatDn! ot propos.d sa.lcs h r.t rih ro cr,jrhr !.a_ * irr.
1l,"lS-?1Fy -d-dr"f..r t nd- AIl8 errr. th. finisb.d srop.wrx D. src.p.r rhzl fivc (J) uniE horizonul to on (t) vcnicat sh;[o.spcotrcaLl, nokd. Aho. tocatioru ofcrosion consot(3larcd hay
. D3r6 or-rcinfo.c€d silr fcncc) shal bG ckany hb.t.d.r. lvcry.ctron sha! b€ madc io muliml2. disturb.rc. of Gt(Ldn!
tj::ld-1::. ry" 8,{Tr o. nuint sh.r b. penr[r.d wioh ron;t{(r) rc.r ot horizonl,t dBun r to th€ ordinar} hiSh *arcr mart of
1f:,. b,+y unt.!6 ip.oficetry approtcd by t]l; Ciry. Also, ;emrDrrc lt. aoaon por.nual of qporcd arc.5. r6ioradoo ofrorod cov.r shdl bc provid.d ar qukl.ly &s po$6tc afrc comptirlon ot tna trrding qEradon.o. _t:l--r_f"l :- * Td€ drritrs rhc buildins p.mir epplcationprocca! ro d.r.rrin. rlE fu[ .Irflr of crosron conrrol rcqunJ.Hoedcr, |,ll. Ciry En&n .r shalt b. arpo*6cd to !.qulc edjdo;co'luoB io corrcs sp.cifE rir. tchr.d probldrt ra normal iDrp6-
will
wiI
rPLnnirs Cornm
2
ln
$.
tn
rd
-9
I
h8
Council
applicai
Such
- 3-21 Condni nio
disl
for
irhin
CcnEoUitrt
Rqul,llns hei8hrbult
:nd J-|7
tl.
h
z
of
rh n3 6f a.
1.
t.
6-
1-
\
Erhart moved, Siegel seconded that the planning Commission recommendthat telephone equipment buildings be regulated as a conditional use withthe following conditions:
1. The site must provide landscaping as required in Article VIII,. Landscaping and Tree Removal Regulations.
2. The driveway surface shall be surfaced with a hard, a1l-weather,dust free, durable surfacing material and concrete curb.
3. The applicant shall receive access permit from the regulatingparty.
4. The building shall meet aII setbacks of the district in which it is
Ioca ted -
5. The building exterior shalI be architecturally consistent with the
surround ing neighborhood.
AII voted in favor except Wildermuth and motion carried.
Wildermuth: I don't think it reaIly has to come before the Planning
Commission and go through the public hearing process or go before the CityCouncil. I think it's an essential use and should be a permiEted use.
Conrad: We're assuming that theseoverhead. They are a1I buried at
equipment buildings have no cables comingthis time?
Bob Docken: They're bur ied.
ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT TO AMEND ARTICLE V, SECTION I4, BUSINESS FRINGE
DISTRICT TO ALLOW CONTRACTOR! S YARDS AS A CONDITIONAL USE, PATRICK AND NANCY
BLOOD.
Barbara Dacy presented the Staff Report on this Zoning Ordinance Amendment.
Patrick Blood: I would like to just say one thing. Werre pretty new atthis and we $rouId Iike to have that spot for the simple reason thatcontractorrs yards have a habit of having sore eyes. Junkyards and stuffLike this. We donrt intend to do that with that piece of property. Werealize thatrs sort of a gateway and a leaving area for Chanhassen andChaska and Shakopee being right there in that corner so rre do intend to makeit nice. Everything inside storage or landscaping to reduce any sight thaEmight be distastefuL to anybody.
Emmings moved, Siegel seconded to close public hearing. AII voted in favor
and motion carried.
#//
(
Planning Commission Meeting
May 131 1987 - page 14
{
Headla: On the recommendation, the previous one, didnrt vre speLl outexplicitedly there was no vehicle refair?
You mean on the previous conditionaL use permit for a contractor,sDacy:
yard?
Headla: Yes.
a 11o$, vehicle
We were concernedrepair.about that. We felt that that shouldn,t
Dacy: I dontt recall that specific conditional use.
HeadIa: I an concerned aboutwould like to see something in
the certain terms of vehicle repair and Iour recommendation about that.
Conrad: Do you
concerned withparti cuIar. . .
associatethe fringe that with this particular request? you'rebusiness district in generalf not this
Headla: For this particular type of operation, I thinkit is suspectible to breakdownl- and I'rir concerned thatsudden start a major repair for vehicles in tnat arei.
just the naturetre don't alI of a
of
S i egel:
res tr ict
bus i ness
Headla:
I think
Siegel:
stations
wildermuth: Iin the bus i ness
We allow service stations already in that area so you canrtsomebody else from mak_ing repairE to a vehicle ,t"i -vo"-hl".
uallorred in there that is Lxcfusively doing that.
rrm concerned about repairs rike that. rf they do on continuousry,r^re ought to put a condition about that.
rrm just making the point that we already alrow these servicein this district.
Headla: Who was notified of this?on the hiII, were they notified?
Dacy: They $rould be notified if weis approved, the applicant hrill haveconditional use permit process thenerilI be notified of that.
Headla: So i.t rri I L come
donrt havefringe.
Siegel: I have nothing to
Emmings: I don't
recommenda t i ons .
Were adjacent landowners? The people up
had a. specific application. After thisto file _a site plan aod go through -the
people within 5Aq feet of the pro!..ty
back in here? Okay.
any problem with including the contractor,s Iots
add.
questions.have any I agree r^rith the Staff,s
Erhart: Is that storage area thatrs screened 10g?, that doesn,t request
(
Planning Commission Meeting
May 13, 1987 - page 15
{(
Planning Commission
May 13, 1987 - page
Meet i ng
16
anybody though in the area that they're using duringrepairs and back and forth with the trucks coming andthat really requires landscaping.
the day
9o ing,
to do thethere's nothing -
Dacy: In our past applications we have requested them to outline what is astorage area and we have required a landscaping plan along with that.
Erhart: You don't think you need to have that in there?
Erhart: Okay, then the only comment is, I think for the benefit of theapplicant and the City getting abused, where you are proposing to put thisand probably use the TH 10I bridge under the railroad tracks. Irm nottrying to molal what you're trying to do along TH 101 bridge. The TH Iotbridge is our problem but the City needs to recognize that this is a growing -area. Are you planning on driving the trucks under the bridge?
Patrick Brood: only if itts acceptabre. The onry thing that might restrict -it, as far as I know, m ight be the weight restr ictions on that particular
road.
Nancy BIood: We wilI consider a majority of the time using TH 2L2. Theonly time we might use TH 101 is when Canterbury Downs has it completelyblocked off. Otherwise, TH 212 is better for us.
BEACHLOT ON PROPERTY ZONED A-2,
iHEasr Eo n r,r-e n- or rE-rgr euo-In-
Patrick Blood: We have been considering that we might be able to talk tothe DOT and get access off of fH 212. Now we haven't proceeded that far.
Erhart: Other than that, my only comment is that hre have to get a trail
easement along there.
Conrad: I donrt have any comments. I think itrs a good staff report.
Siegel moved, Wildermuth seconded that the Planning Commission recommendapproval of Zoning Ordinance Amendment Request #87-2 to amend Article V,Section 14 (2) to include contractorrs yards as a condit.ional use subject tothe standards established in Article V, Section 9 (4). AII voted in favorand motion carried.
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A RECREATIONAL
AGRICULTURE ESTATES AND LOCATED AT THE NOR I4(PIONEER TRAIL) , GEORGE NELSON.
Jo Ann Olsen presented the Staff Report on this item.
Wayne Tauer:that might be.
r ight there isfairly heav i Iy
I guess aII I rrant to point out is just some m inor dif fe r ence sThe siltation basin as it exists on that particuLar plannot necessarily an open area. BasicalIy that whole area iswooded. I think our intent is to site that as best we can by
Dacy: No.
l"'B .<,
-'-tr
tbe a nie amenity. That $re're not just lookirg at makirg q dr!, spot.
Joer cootEr: can r address your question about the wetrarri? t{y name is Joer
C.]ooIEr from pioneer Egineerirg. Ihe intent is werre goirg to open r4), thesurface area is going to be exactry tie same to whatrs ttrere now. Elsentrytttat wetlard is not futl of water. What wetre goirg to do is we're going togo in ard oIEn it r4) so tl*re can be some open watei in there which iitt resqnr for wildlife nests or sonethirry similar to that. Barring dry weatherlike this it should be wet.
Pat swenson: I$ould there be any advantage Gary in gltting a corlar arourd thelake area durirg construction?
Mayor tlamilton: ItEt's already in there.
Councilman Johnson: Ttatrs number 4, floatirg siltation fence.
courEi lman Johnson moved, Mayor Hamirton seconded to approve the take Rileywoods plans ard specifications vriti corditions r througli 8 from the cityEngineer's memo with tl:e following amendment to condition nunber 9:
9- The devel-o[Er sharr incorporate a revised Grad irg ard Erosion controrPIan incorporating conditions I through g above arri approved by theCity Eg ineer as a part of tle cnonstruction docunents-.-
A11 voted in favor and rnction carried-t
councilman Bol.t: rn our Minutes from ttre rast meeting the ord inance as it wastlped r,ras different from $rhat we stated in our Minutei and r would simpry like
!9 make the two compatibre ard r think the difference was roughry arong therines that when a rural beachlot came under a urban designati6n -that i[ wourabe considered under those standards. crark worded it a litt]e better thanthat but tlntrs the intent. Ihatrs my only conment. Y
councilman Bolrt moved, Mayor Hamilton seconded to correct the zoning ordinarceAmerdment Establishing conditions for Recreational Beachrots in AgriculturarDistricts to aocurately forlow as stated in tlle Minutes of the city councirmeeting June t, 1987. A11 voted in favor and motion carried.
@uncilman BoyE moved, Mayor Hamilton seconded to approve ttE Zoning Ord inance
Amerdment Establishing conditions for Recreational Beachlots in egriculturalDistricts, Final Readirg. AII voted in favor ard motion carried.-
--1-:eurs ORDINATICE AMENDMENT TO ALLOW COMTRACTORIS YARDS AS CONDITI Ot\lAL USES IN
THE BUS INESS ERIIIGE DISTRI gT, PATRICK BLOOD AND I.IAI\ICY LEE./,1
l6
(
City Oourci I lheting - Jurp 15, 1987
(
I
CONSSNT AGENDA: ZONING.ORDIMNCE AMENDMENT ESTABLISHING CONDITIONS FOR
REcREATToML BEACHLoTs rt.t E-nrcultffi :
Barbara Dacy: the Counci I directed Staff to notify surroudning propertyowners. That was done. SqrE property owners nay be here tonight.
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City Courci 1 l,leeting - June 15, 1987
Mayor llamilton: Is there anyone here from tie publ ic wishing to slEak on the
zoning Ordinanc-e Arnen&lent request to al]-ow a contractor's yard as a
Conditional Use in the BE, Blsiness ltinge District ard q>ecifically a request
by eatrick ard NarEy Blood? AnyorE wishirg to speak on this? tib orE. Ohy,
tley v,ere duly notified ard there is no one here.
Councilman Johnson: Tte only modification t was speaking about last time was
on vJater ard waste vrater. Eying to assure that $re donrt have within this
district is onty rural without sevrer so we want to make sure we donrt have
Iarge truck washing with washing the interior of the trucks or any other tl4>e
of contractor usage that has a large water flow that is not alproPriate for
septic systems. I'm trying to figure out hor,, $e r.rould say that.
Mayor tlamilton: In watching another operation in the BF, that orE that's down
on Merrill's proEErty, they r.rash their trucks but they ale actually more
concerned with washing the motor ard just tle outside. I rEver saw tlem wash
the inside. they just want to get the dirt off.
@uncilman Horn:. TtEy don't go into any septic system with that anFsay do
they?
t'layor Hamilton: No, it just runs in the ground.
Barbara Dary: If I can respord to what you want to control. Urder Article
III, Section 2(5), one of the corditions urder the review powers of tie
Council is that ttp use will be served adequately by essential Frbl ic
facilities and services irrcluding streets, Police, fire, etc. or will be
served adequately by srch facilities ard serv ices prwided by the person or
agerries reiponsible for the establishment of tlre ProPosed use. .So it
sPecif ica[f salts water ard sewer systems so that also could be incorPorate'l
into the corditional use.
Courci lman Johnson: okay, so v,e've got it covered by ottrer sections.
l.rayor Hamilton: what's our normal rev iew period? A year?
Barbara Dacy: Ttrc Courrci I can require an annual revie$, period for a
Corditional Use Pemit.
Mayor Hamilton: I would make in this case, unless it's something thatrs new,
make it one corxlition on my motion that it be reviewed in a years time.
Barbara Dacy: Okay, so you're saying anytime you have a cutractor's yard in
the BE District, you want it reviewed on an annual basis?
Mayor Hamilton: Iim sorry, I guess I was thinking nore of a specific use.
I'm jurnpirg ahead of myself.
Mayor ttamilton moved, Courci lman Ceving secorded to approve ttE zoning
ordinance Amerdment to allow contractor's yards as a Corditional Use in tte
Business Eringe District. Al,1 voted in favor ard rbtion carried.
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PLAN DESIGNATION
P&o..Br-c.otAPPLICANT:
ADDRES S
TELEPHONE (Daytine )
REOT'EST:
I,AND DEVEI,OPTTENT APPLICATION
CITT OF CEANE.ASSEN69f Coulter Drive
Chadhassen, MN 55317(512) 937-1900
ERf ANC
DRESS 4.,e
rtr+p codeqa-l-i TELEPHoNE :A f,
tt
p Code
x
Zoning District Change
Zoning Appeal
Zoning Variance
Zoning Text Amendment
Iand Use plan Amendment
Conditional Use permit
Site Plan Review
Planned Unit Development
_ Sketch plan
_ Preliminary
_ Final plan Plan
\.
Subdivi sion
_ Platting
_ Metes and Bounds
Stree t,/ Eas ement Vacation
Wetlands permit
PROJECT NA,TYE
PRESENT LAND USE
REQT]ESTED LAND US
PRESENT ZONTNG
E PLAN DESIGNATION
Fe,A-\ C-B.(aN,s-r-€-\CT
USES PROPOSED C.,t.r--fl2 d=!o.
SIZE OF PROPERTY t?.i {,,
C.F.--.t BIOCATION
REASONS
L\
FOR THIS REQUEST o
LEGAL DESCRIPTION (Attach legaI if necessary)
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REQUESTED ZONING
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City of Chanhassen
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Land Development ApplicationaPage 2
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FILI NG TNSTRUCTI ONS:
FI L ING CERT IF ICAT I ON:
Signed By
Signed By
This application must be completed in fuII and be typewritten orcrearly printed and must be iccompanieJ-oy arr information andplans required bv aopl_icable ciay-o;;i;"nce provisions. Beforefiling this applic"iion, you shoild confer r^rith the City plannerto determine the s oeci f ic- ordinin;; ;;;-pr""edura1 requiremenrs
The undersiined reoresentative of the applicant hereby certifiesthat he is familiai with the Iro..J"r"i'requi rements of allapplicable City Ordinances -
The. undersigned hereby certifies that the applicant has beenauthorized to make this application foi tn"' irop"iiv--t .r"ii"described
rcant
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Date
Dat e
ha
o
@
\<--ln|41 rDate Applicati on
Application Fee
City Receipt No.
Recei rred
Pai. d
rr /r c^ 1*-r
I
t This Application ,i11-!: cqrr6idered by the planning Commission,/Board of Adjustments and-{ppeals at t[re.r.r
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CITY OF
EH[NHISSEI[
STAFF R=PORT
-!P.C. DATE: Jan. 20, 1988
C.C. DATB: Feb. 8, 1988
CASE NO: 82-4 ZOA
Prepared by: Dacy/v
Fz
o
=(LL
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Zoning Ordinance Amendment for Indoor
and Video Golf as Conditional Uses in
A-2 , Agricultural Estate District.
PROPOSAL:Driving
LOCATION:
APPLICANT:
GoIf
the
John D. Pryzmus
7475 Saratoga Drive
Chanhassen, MN 55317
N-
s-
E-
w-
WATER AND SEWER:
PEYSICAL CHARAC. :
2OOO LAND USE PLAN:
PRESENT ZONING:
ACREAGE:
DENSITY !
ADJACENT ZONING
AND LAND USE:
ZOA for Indoor and Video Golf
January 20, 19 88
Page 2
BACKGROUND
The Planning Commission, at its April 22, 1987, meeting, con-sidered a request by the applicant to amend the A-2 District to
a11ow golf driving ranges, miniature golf courses and an indoorbatting facility as conditional uses. The Planning Commission
recornmended that the A-2 District should be amended to a11ov,driving ranges as a conditional use with four additional con-ditions (see attached minutes). The City Council at the May 4,
1987, meeting, approved the zoning ordinance amendment requestfor driving ranges as a conditional use with miniature golf cour-ses as an accessory use to golf driving ranges. The Council alsoestablished five additional conditions. The Council did not
approve the zoning ordinance amendment for an indoor battingbuilding. The City Council subsequently approved the conditional
use permit to install a golf driving range with the miniaturegolf course subject to several conditions at the November 16,
1987, meeting. Attachment #1 represents a synopsis of the acti-vities prior to the applicantrs application in Apri1.
ANALYS I S
Analyzing zoning ordinance amendments involve reviewing the
tionship of the proposed use to the zoning districtrs intent
its compatibility t4rith the permitted and conditional uses
aIlo$red in that district.
re 1a-
and
I ntent
The intent of the A-2, Agricultural Estate District is to
"preserve the rural charater while respecting development pat-
terns by allowing single family residential development". In
analyzing the proposed request, it is necessary to divorce one-
self from the proposed applicant's proposed location and evaluate
the use in relationship to tshe entire A-2 District.
Indoor driving range or video golf is a unique use. Typically,
zoning ordinances generalize uses for ease of interpretation. In
evaluating this type of specific reguest, the Commission and
Council should consider not only the proposed indoor golf uses
but also the use of the building if it would cease operation.
A building can be converted into another recreational use or a
recreation c1ub, including racket ball or hantlball courts, etc.
Commercial recreational uses are provicled for in the BG,
General Business District (this is located west of the dor^rntown
area on the north side of TH 5). A recreational use of the
nature proposed is not a seasonal use as the driving range and
the miniature golf use, but is rather a typical commercial use
that creates traffic, aesthetic, noise, and compatibility
conflicts with the intent of the A-2 District.
ZOA for
January
Page 3
Indoor and Video Golf20, 1988
ComDa t i bility with Permitted and Conditional Uses
The amendment to Lhe Zoning Ordinance for contractorrs yardsrecognized the existence of four or five establ i shmen ts-. Arr.were reguired to go through-the process to eval,uate their irnpact.,,holesale nurseries were idded to ttre orainance i"-rsiisl-si;.,the existence of Ha1la Nursery as well as a new reguest for anursery operation which is now rocated on TH 101. The erectricalsubstation amendment was made in recognition of ttr" neea-tJ-p.o-vide power service to persons in the Southwest .r... -co*ercial
horse stabres have also traditionalry been allowed in the rurararea.
In comparison to corunercial riding stables, contractor,s yards,wholesale nurseries and electricai substation", . ...r"iti"n.ruse as proposed is clearly a commercial use. eermittinj ihistype of use in the agriculturar district wourd establisf, .--p.u""-dent for other commercial uses. The other condit.ional uses withthe possibre exception of contractorrs yards are retaieJ-io tn"use of agricultural land- rt is a logical extens ion -io -piJ"iae
for a conditional use for commercial it"b1"" it ooirai"g-oi-horses is permitted.. -It is a logical extension to provide forwholesale nurseries if agricultuie is defined bv thl 2""i""-ordinance_ as the growing of nursery stock and t;.; iu;;;--''However, it is not consistent to eitend a seasonal/i nte, im u=eiu9! ?s a golf driving range inro promotion "t " "t...i.i"f-building or uses which are-commerciaL i., natrr.u and al-ready per_mitted in another district in ttre ciiy. The lands within theGeneral Business District are served ivith urban "..ri.."
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t r.t".and sewer service and appropriate transportation servicesj.
Summary
Inclusion of.the proposed recreational building for indoor videogorr or clrrvlng range uses would conflict \^rith the district.'srncent an9 r!. incompatible with the permitted and conditionaluses in the district. Further, ameniing the ordinance toi ifr:.stype of use will by itself broaden the intent of the districtbeyond that which was originally intended.
RECOMMENDATI ON
Planning staff recommends the planning Commission adopt thefollowing motion:
"The -Planning cornmission recommends deniar of zoning ordinanceAmendment Request B2-4 for indoor video golf ana indooi-goifdriving ranges as conditional uses in the A-2 District u6ciusethe proposal is inconsistent with the inrent of the A-2 District
"ld i: incompatible with the permitted and condi tionil -""u" -"t
the district. "
ZOA for Indoor and Video Golf
January 20, 1988
Page 4
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5.
6.
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8.
9.
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11.
12.
13.I4.
15.
Synopsis of previous cases.City Council minutes dated November l5 , 1997.City Council minutes dated May 4, L987.Planning Conmission minutes dated April 22, LgB7.Planning Commission minutes tlated August t2, LgB2.City Council minutes dated October 4, L982.Planning Commission minutes dated October 29, L992.City Council minutes dated December 20, 1982.City Council minutes dated Novenber 4, 1985.City Council minutes dated February 23 , L9A7.Letter from Art Partridge dated April l-Z, 1997.Resolution No. 85-62, Revoking Conditional Use permit.
Application.
Excerpt from Zoning Ordj.nance, A-2 District.
Appl i cat i on .
ATTACHME NTS
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on August L2, L982, the pranning commission recommended denialthe zoning ordinance Amendment iequest ro a11ow 9"ii-iiriiiig'ranges in the agricultural distri;t.
on-october 4, L992, the city council anended the ordinance toal1ow golf.driving ranges ai a conditional use io tt.-igii_-'cultural district.
On October 28, 1982,City Council deny the
of
On February 23, L9g7 , thereinstate the condi tionalthe reinstatement request
the Planning Commission recommencled that therequest for the conditional use permit.
applicant requested the Counci Iuse permit. ?he City Council denied
on December 20, 1982, the city councir approved the conditionaluse permit with several con,liiions . .
on November 4, 1985, the city council revoked the conditionar usepermit based on violations t6 ttre peimii. The basis of revoca_tion was. thar the applicant traa iiiieJ-in ttre wetland area and.graded within ten feet. of Btuff Cru".t. -
In the new Zoning o.gil:1:. rhe planning Commission specificallyrecommended t.hat golf courses and golf driving ,.;;";.;;-;liou.cfrom the A-2 Disrricr. rhar. recomi.na"ti"" ;;=-;;;;r.;-Uv-frr"
i;l;."""."t1, and rhe ordinan"u b;;;;-;rteciiv"-on-i"[.ii.i rs,
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be willirg to support a situation in which he would grant ttle city an
easement. If the City r.rants to build a trail on both sides of CR 17, I think
we should be willirg to pay for it but Itd like to tEve that option availableto us. I think that saves Mr. patton's feeling that itrs costing thedevelognent money because you're simply giving us an easement ard yet itprotects the ability of the City to ctqre back and build a trail later.
Councilman Johnson: I thought that was what the park ard Rec !,ras asking for
anyway.
@unci lman Boyt: what we agreed to the other evening was tlat },tr. patton wouLdbuild the trail on both sides of CR 17 arrl I think park ard Rec said that if
he chose not to build it, there would be a reduction in ttre trails fees. Ithink since then we bave increase the amount of trails wetve asked Mr. patton
to bui Id in this development and quite possibly it,s reasonable to ask for an
easgnent.
Courcilman Bo)rt moved, Councilman Horn seconled that the applicant provide an
easement on one side of County Road L7 for the future develognent of a trail,to be built by the City, if a trail on both sides of @unty Etcad 17 is deemed
necessary. A1l voted in favor arri motion carried.
REI/IEI!^I STWINGS RECREATION PRoIECT, JOHN PRYZMUS , APPLICANT:
Barbara Dacy: I do need a clarification on one of the proposed corditions of
the conditional use permit but as to t-}Ie zoning ordinarre amerxlment, the
Council needs to act on the 2rld arri final reading on the zonirg ordinance
amendment to allow golf driving ranges as a corditional use with or without
miniature golf as an accessory use. The five corditions Ehat the Council putin their motion from l4ay 4, 1987. the Courrcil approved the clnditional use
permit ard also acted to deny the wetlard alteration lErmit so the Council
needs to authorize execution of the corditional use permit which staff has
prepared in Attachnent *2. If I could review briefly one of the corditions.
On the graphic here the big blob, if you will, is the wetland area in the
northvrest corner of the site. The orarge area is where the miniature golf
course is going to be located. the gray area is where the parking arei is
proposed Eo be then there was a small clubhouse buildirg located here. This
c$tored square is the proposed battjng buiJ.ding at that tj.me. .Ihe battingbuildirg was not approved as part of the cord jtional use permit arrl this areaover here represenEs the septic system sites adjacenc to calpin Blvd.. thissite pJ.an shor"rn here was submitted in conjunction with the lardscapinq plan
ard that Iandscaping plan is proposed to be the installation of a num6ei of
deciduous trees ard also proposed consEruction of berm areas which are
represented in green. the applicant also proposed fencing around the entire
lErimeter of tlle site as well as a fence arourd the maxi-puEt ard mini-putt
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City Counci 1 Meeting - ltovsnloer 16, I9g7
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A. ZONII\IG ORDIIA}EE AI"IEIIDMENT TO II,ICLUDE @LF DRIVI}IG RAI\IG8S AS A
CONDITIONAL USE AND MINIATURE GOT,F COT'RSE AS AN ACCESSORY USE, 2NDm@-*imii[
B. APPROVAL CONDITIOI{AL USE PERMIT DOCUMEI{T.
o A t-'
area. So the corrlitional use permit has been designed to follow up on theelements tha t hras reoresented Uy tfre appfica-nt on his site plan arxJIardscapirg plan. tn number r ti* rir""ipiilrt.requires subrnission of arevised grading pran showing -Eh;'1tri; ffgraaing,- methods or erosion controlard irdicaEirs rbe rev.ised i..Ji*'.r-u[ #.rioi-'roi .J "rrutlr." * r.,recau, the appricant rraa origin;iiv-i"tiia5 in.artering the wetlar* area andcreatirg a ponl back here arrl to roi". *.-i-r.vation of the hirl 0ver in thisarea for the constructl?:_:r.,_ u"iiils b.-i.ji"g. since rhe wertand atrerarionpermit was denied ard since rhe Uutti,t UriiJi'g *." not included in theapproval' the appricant tras cnangJ-rri3 ilil'so rltat. we wourd like to reducethe size of rhe hirl in_ihis ;;;-;;-;":;t-of arl, -if you wiu recau,carver county had a conditi"r-tn t-ii"'Iffi"l u... for the parkinq ror ardthe clubhouse buirdiru be measurJ r."- Jira*i*t from the center rine ofcarpin Blvd.. r apor5gize. ;-.;#il:;# il=" gd to rle councit, bur the$'ay tlEt first cordirion srrouta _rej'iJ-iitt-in"-so. root structure setback inthe A-2 district' the fi-rst conrition stroril' i*a, iniicating the revisedrocation of the oarkirg rot "rg "r-'rino,r[-ilg'r."a from the cenrer rine of cRr17' that would- take into_ u..ornoautll-n--tr,"loa, ti onu I right-of-eray needed forcR rr7 as werr as the s0 foor ".tu."[.-" i'ai,i.r.*,.t ,r* illi"#,.fi uro's.r made an error in ti.," ratusg-i;;'iL '*iili ,ir"-"f calpin etvd.. rhe sizeof the parkinq rot was primaiirv-uisJ-oi"iiJ'-r"" of rhe ba*ing uuiraing.Provided on rhe plan heie is "o,i"r.-urri# #'=gz =p"....
- Th. b.r.i;',:urroinnrs not beins incruded, .rhere.is ;-;;;; ;; ;y"- ri,at-size-oi-J-p"lxing r..so ."'hat the first corxlition i" *vi.g l"'ti,It the pran should show the revisedlocation of .'e parkirg lo.t. ".ri rii'iix. al'-"ia an. revised size ard locarionot the lErkinq rot arrr crubnouse -so -ai-i ii"'".pprican. is proposing to reduceH:" # # ;:1,:Tf= t;S.
-_ f*+rr, H"' o'i J" "iry,carFd
_ rhar nre parkins arearherirsE;;;il;-il:".^:_"tr:1T",?;1?."i.-!q.tif J""ml#*ff "i"areas should be lined by concrete curb arso so-the counci I may $rant to'<j,scussthat in more derair tonight ;;a; -"..Je.-'iJ ,ila.n our ordinance, a senrenceil:!}nXflfl;j*.#_.e.ui"s :h"li.ue'";,] ."a rined wjth "on"..i. "o.u.that in ;d;;' ;;' b"' J;i.f !:H.'"; I"Iyi"'.:::[::r.."".:il:rJ.:. u"J -i
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evergreens and 2 foot evergreens should be placed bet$reen Ehe parking areasard Galpin Btvd.. rt" prof,osea r.."iii .T "d!'"r*, rhe appticanr i;dicaredto me that it wourd be appioximat.ry s'reet-u; i.t shou Id noE exceed our 6teet in conformance with--our ..a i.u'""-". --iLr*lJ
f an! 5 really go together.As you recall, the bathrooms were to be located in.the battirg buildinq area.the appl icant has fourrl a better ro".tion -r-#-,o'ourxl
systems over in tr,i= *"u.If the batrinq buirdino.is_n" i;.q;;;;"i"in.' u.tn.ooms are ro be praced inthe clubhouse' the apoi icant's hai u *uli6 Ji*opti on". .f can eitrrei pumpthe efftuent to a seiiic.sysrem sire ro
.rh; ;;;, rnstatl a holdirg t_r o.rnstall temporary *f*rj._;...--.: .h";.;p";;y'; whaE,sraff is recomrierdlngthat if the septic svstem sites are not -to & ,=*r, then vJe recomnerd::-"i:;:l::,"j.",:,#i:n._-nr ."ti,". u,u.-n?i-urru.ion .r s...iiil.I. rn any
1f,li*9 ;E-;;; "'i.j:J',."T::"":fl:;."::=:..
.ir"s .." piJi*Ii ou. in-appricant' rr ti'"'.'ppii^"anr is ro in"tuii ;-;"i;LryT-rx', ff.H si ".the, contracE with a ll censed prp". .t.rla L'p,
.s.lTl-r.c-omprv "i.ii .ri'.i. requiremenrs "r .* ni.1'JJ"on* ,ilx;riii iHii:il.wrl.dlife ard DNR. Because U;. "ppii.;;-r;; ; suhnirting a revised giaoing
City Council l4eeting - Novsrrler lG, 19g7
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City Courci I }feeting - Novgnloer 16, I9g7
l"layor tlamilton: Right but not the whole, what you would consider the parking
area.
Barbara Dacy: RighE. Tonight I was indicating that the curbing and thepaving ard the bituminous issue was not even discussed at the May 4thmeeting. I was merety pointing out that our ordinance requires it. Thatpaved be lined with concrete curb so yourre consistent with the ordinance.
Mayor tlamilton: Okay arrl I was just questioning that wondering if thatrsconsistent with what $re do in the rural area. If that's r"rhat our ordinances!E, I guess that surprises re.
Barbara Dacy: Staff has been consistent in recommend i ng that that beinstalled.
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Mayor tlamilton: I'm sure you have but my quesEion is stj.ll the same.the ordinance that it rlould be instaLled in the rural areas?
Barbara Dacy: Your question, have you approved it in the past?:!
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Plan, the watershed District approvar will be necessary in that case. Theappricant will have to receive tieir authorization. lloi, as to the wetlanoalteration permit, councir action again was to deny that on r4ay 4, L9Ai. Theappricant is- proposing to plant grals seed in this area on a ieguiai tsis ingrder to pick up the barls from the tee area. Because this ard has beenfarmed in the past on a consistent basis, staff did not ieef -erat;i;;irg
grass seed periodicalry wourd be adverse to the wetlard areas. lve'pieparea apermiE- to
^11or,, seed ing of the site. rf that is not consistent with ,Lt tn"Council feels was their action on May 4, I9g7, then that needs to Gcorrected. M-mber g, to insure compretion of the grading improvements and theparkirry lot improvements ard so on, we ask that ttre appricani submii a ietterof credit in the amount of rrot. rtre cou*ir cliscussed at tlte last meetingard made a cordition the zonirg ordinanc€ amerdment to include the use thattte hours of operation wourd be from sunrise to sunset and there: cre urereyguf! be no lightirg unLess that was a specific cordition of approvat.Finarly, tiere is an outstanding bir. incurred by !,rr. Machmeiei - an: ur.Arderson- we're requiring that be paid arrJ if an additionar review would benecessary for the mourd septic system sites beyord our current staff, thatwou_! be necessary that a cordition that those tees would be paid by the
appr icant also and thaE is consistent with arl of our appricants to-r any otour subdivision or any tlpe of appl icant in the rural aiea.
Idayor llamirton: r can think of one question offhand. you said vre wanted tohave cgrb in there. I guess I don't recal] that in the rural area for anyt14:e of a use like this and r guess the onry one r can t}ink of that wourd befairly similar would be the mini-storage area. I donrt bel ieve that werequired curb and gutter in that area.
Barbara Dacy: Eor Mr. Brownrs there was I beLieve the main access drives,ingress and egress points Eo the develotrment.
IS it
fi Aa)ALsi'a(
riayor Hanilton: No, does it say that in the ordinance? That rural areas putin parking for r"/hatever trse you;re going to use, you have to have curb anclgutter .
Barbara Dacy: lte ordinance..does rpt speci fy if itrs urban or rural. rt sal.if you have a parking area, it has to be pav& ara you have to have concretecurb.
Mayor tLamilton: Arright, so that's something that ttre @urcir could decide$'hether or not $re wanr to have th,at right? St rr i" ru"or"..roi[-tl.i' ai=a[Dlicant do ;:rrt that in. Iim also cuiious about the wetlard ,ro;. - fir"drawing that lpu were s-howing us there arn tre-portion i;-;;-J;; "ffi*rythe retlard. tftro's definiti6n of the ,eiiurJ-i" tnutZ
Barbara Dacy: !{e asked the alplicant at that time, what we use as thedefinition of edge of the $et-l-arri is where tne reed gr..s *reg"taiio.,
'"t".t
ard stops- That $ras one factor because the reed g.."; ru" p-iJoriiii.ri'in tti"area. rhe other reference that !,e used was the o-fficiar a,irir"i.n ""trurrr"map that was on file. This part of the area does refrect on tlE contourthat t s located on the retlanis rnap.
Mayor Hamilton: gthat class wetlard was that?
Barbara Dacy: It was a Bl[)e II, Class B.
l4ayor tiamilton: Is that the lowest grade you can get?
Barbara Dacy: Ihere,s &l[)e I which is the lowesE.
rdayor Hamirton: so it's next to the rovrest ard that area had been farmed foryears if r remember correctry. r stir.l, in being Gcnsistent with what I,vesaid in.the past, I don,t beieve thatrs a wetiana ard I would like to seesome evidence if it is- r think the appricant ought to be arl.wed use in tiatarea. rt may rrave been a wetrarrl at one Eiine and-.ronn rirrJlt.- ilr,t o.$rrong it'!s somerhing rhat,s been done. r rhink tir;a ;.;-";id *..'II"l*.far nortJt erd of that there is a pord or tre woura construcl-a-pil-tf,it' courabe used as a wetrand or as a retention area for runoff to go into the creek.r r',ould prefer to see that done since he's filled the area ir."uavr*;ri, ni*to use it-. r guess r have stated tlnt previousiy ano r still feer ure sameyiy:.. r think anybodv t ourd have-a hard rime going out.h".;.rdi ii"n'i."..if iE',s Mrs. Rock$relr or our _staff and provin{ that t}nt is in fact a eretrand.I donrt think therers anv evidence out tiere. Do council *"roO.* G,i. '_y
questions of ttE sEaff?
c',"urEi rman Horn: Gre of tl," things that we requested when we reviewed thislast time was.to get a gel,glal poiiry on allowirq this type oi ,"-i- 'ti.,
planning @mmission. I didn'c see any recoro ttrlt tfrey Ga gir*-u=-."guideline on Ehis issue.
Barbara Dacy: As r interpretted the Minutes after reviewing them, that topicwas discussed but then r berieve it was councirman cevirg "ivG-v"" Lr."[.decide on a lErticular issue at hand tonight uaf Ur"t t$ro motions occurred.
City Council treeting - Novsn)ler 16, f9g7
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City Courci 1 treeting - Novmber 16, I9g7
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so that i tem has not been brought back to the planning @mmission for reviewgiven Council,s action.
Councilnan _Horn: If you read further in the Minutes it said that, yes vre hadto act on this issue this. evenirg. but part of our problem wittr aciing tnatevening was that we didn't.tnvq -tne guid"tin. ."a ,Ut we said i=. ti"t ,"should go back arrl get a guiderin ui to what trPe of uses we shourd arroe, ardwhere we shourd ar.row rhem and what kirrr of cri[eria ," "toolJ poJ on tio""kjrds.of uses. specificauy the issue or the Lttinq u.* n"a Jorrl b "rUthat is not addressed anywhere. tltre also described *," fa"u tfrat- iI frr-r"uaour ordinance it doesn'|t arrow a gorf course anlprace in ttre city wi'dut aconditionar use permit. Ttnt was another on" o'f th. issr:es urai we "."t a toaddress ard brought back to us for us to act on r,row we come back to thisissue again arrl we don't have any further recommerdation" oi -y iortt iguiglce on this thirg ard it seems like we've rost a rot of time irhere wecould have been making a policy on tlEt so once again insteJ oi p.oi"-ti.r",
hEr re retroactive.
Barbara Dacy: r guess r disagree because the five cuditions that the councileventually approved were the specific recommerdations of the planning
commission ard they made a specific statement saying trat tr,- utiini buildingof the commercial recreational uses was not appropriate in the rurar area.But they did distinguish betvreen driving range. und miniature gort -ouiies.
They decrined to act on the. gorf course issue because that was -not brought upto then at that point althor:gh r recarl that the pranning commission did saythat they would all agree that a golf course should be airowed in the rurararea- Basicarry what the councir has approved was the planning @mmissionrecormerKiation.
courcilman Horn: that's true but what we arso asked for was that the issue ofgolf courses in general be addressed in terms of our overall ordinance arli rdon't bel ieve it has.
Barbara Dacy: yes, they have not addressed that but r guess I stirr donrtunderstard how that isstre wourd relate to Mr. prya[usr jppJ-ication because rdon't.think the_ driving range and miniature golf course ii ctearty a distinctuse than a golf clurse.
Courci lman Horn: IlhaE you,re telling us is that there is no anomaly to theordinance to date. That this is a very clear cut issue frqn ou. oii i"i.o".
Barbara Dacy: Ihe Council acted to approve the planning Commissionrecommerdation for the golf drivirg ranges arrl miniatuie golf couries. Ttreydid not. address a golf course jssue at aLl.
counci rman Horn: r undersbard that. Based on the current ordinance?
Barbara Dacy: Right.
councilman Johnson: As r said in May, r tnink we should arroe, at reast theseeding in that area Eo make the area useful. r do not ttrinr< we sno-uiJ maxemajor grading changes to that area. It srill, with the p.op", ..Jl"S, wiff
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City Councj.l ),teet ing _ Novsrber 16, 1987
function as a nutrient drain- the wetlarrl area. Ttris is another exampre of howthe rH 5 corridor rhere needs t. b" i;k;-;: we are in that process, rguess rooking at the entire do$rntown to ur ai-." part of our comprehensive
John pryanus: As far as i-f _I can have it, whatever you decide as far as thecurbirg we can go ahead ard- do that. but;L;; worked with staff is after the11 inches of rain, I hrent down ,.,ere ari'-rt-r"a *r.t area a week arrl a halflate! ard there wasnrt even any r.rater there so_rrm not worriJ itootir,i'gin the wet alea at all. cre tlring tUJi ,o"ia like_. to propose. is the battingcage or our proposal aF-11"u" a Uattirg buitding. tt was donsist"nt ,rit}l .yfinancing and that oroject was...to mat6 il ?inarciarly feasibte. r neededthe battins *e. o.-tr6.ira""ig.ll';;;;.il. A.s fa! as the density of rhearea coincides with miniatu." 96tr "rri fi;;;; range. AIso, when people areusirg that, rhev won'it. rearry g1;;fatl=*"it"L ir r courd reconsiaei to aaatltat buildinq as a utility ti,iiaing, ilj;Id be rhe only thing. orher rlanthat, r won,t be aoim anything in-it=-tor,'i;;.at ati ;th:.;;.=#ir,g i..f li-r.:= the sradins-peri'it, -tt"t s*"^;i.;';ith rhe miniarure sorf rbw arxx$re rdon't trrt any fiu in the row u.6., ,"iii'iu=t xno"x-'Jo*i-i[ I#.n.ip ..r:lust tr-,sh ir ro rhe back. There $rilt'1" .-Liu.*t.i^r* ;;;n;.;f"gi.iing *ffi ."ii";r'3.[rfr":::i'",.lTl'"'i']'ir"''i-#h"'i''e;;;;;v;ii;i;,to
Mayor Hamilton: thatts.an.enEirery separate issue. r guess if you want thatto be reconsidered, you'll_ have to'lri[-i;-;; at another time. Do you haveanv probrems wirh r,,,e corriirions r uirro'ush r0 rhJ;;lli,;r,Il=r uv'"*,Icorditional use permit? !,Iere those "orr:lli.L acceptable to you?
John pryznus: Ttre curbing and?
Mayozr Hamilton: There are l0 condj tions. Have you had a chance to review
John Pryanus: I didn, t.
@unci lman tso].t: Did you fill in the wetslard?
John Pr).anus: yes, I fil1ed in part of it.
Counci lman Bolt: Did you have a permit to do that?
John Pryanus: there isn't any wetrard on the pro.Erty. r have a retter fromEhe DNR stating that it,s noCa protectJ ,[tf5.a.
courEi rman Boyt: werr the city considers it a wetrands and you firled it inwithour a permit, is rhar ".,.r&t? I ji;1 ;;; to ger a ctea! sratus on hot,Iir.ff.r$.I".**. My urderstardi.q ii-r io"t the werland because you
l,layor Hamilton: Ihat's correct.
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City Courcil tteeting - Novsnber 16, l9B7
oouncilman Bo].t: what you'|re basically askirg to do witi the wetrards andr.rhat the City proposes is a wetlarrl, is to seed it, mow it, treat it like anygther piege of grourd. I would like to ask the staff, is this going to impeOeitts ability to do hhat itts doing nord?
Barbara Dacy: When Dr. Rockwell visited the site last sprirg, she conmentedthat ttre area is really not acting as a good place for habitat which is one ofthe criteria for a wetlanl. Itrs main furction was servinS as an area forrecharge and a storm water retention area before it gets to a creek along thenorth side of the property. Staff felt that because there was goirg to be noadditional fill or alteration of the protErty, that it would continue to lemaintained the way it was in the last several years, that r.re felt that theseeding vrould not affect that function at aIl.
Councilman Boyt: Now I heard somethirg about an offer to build a pord on theprotErty as a holding pord. I think that's a reasonable offer ard i{e shouldtake lrou uP on that.
Barbara Dacy: That was part of the original lretland alteration permit requestthat was denied by the Council so if you're proposing to do that, he would
have to reapply for that.
Councilman Eloyt: i{ow are you proposing ard how vrould you like to alter thatwetlard any differentfy than what you propose to do now?
John Pryanus: You means as far as building a pord?
Councilman BoyE: No, as far as the particular wetlaBl.
proposing to build lour pond?
Is that where you are
John Pryaflus: Yes iE e,ou]d be down aE the erxl of the road area.
@uncilman BoyE: Alright, so what other kirds of charges were you proposing
to nEke in the r^etLand?
John Eyznus: ALI I r,\,anE io do is just like I have there on the serrrer.
Councilman Bol.t: Do we have any difficulty with him improving EIle wetlanl?
We seem to have set a precedent indicating agreement to do that before. WeLl
Jay, maybe rrhen it gets to be your turn you can comment on that. Then Eheother situation I have is on the parking lot. As I read the ordinance, it's alittle different than sEaff is interpretting it. It says on tEge L247, j,.n
multiple family, business, office and industrial districts. We,re not jn anyof those so it does state that a person needs to have some sort of dust free,all \.reather surface and concreEe curbing. It,s real specific as to wheEe inthe city ',e can require Ehat. I bel j.eve this is an agricultural district?
lbyor Hani I ton: Itrs A-2.
Counci lman Boyt: I think given the surface area, it probaby makes sense to
Ett a concrete curb arourd this but I don't Ehink the city ordinarrce requi resit. I think jtrs kind of commen sense if you,re going to Rlt a hard suiface
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City Courcil t4eeting - Noven cer 16, I9g7
Courci Iman Bol.t: you,re saying when the traffic load wouldon TH 5, this. ..
on that.much grourd to have some means of controllirg the runoff from that.So to kird of summarize where Irm at right no$r, on tire wetland, iiy"u,"goirg to improve ir, r can certainly be tonvinced that gradirg .J J..aing i.appropriate since it doesnrt seem to interfere with whai it,s-aloinq now. onthe curbing, I'm okay wirh.goirg on the curbirg whichevei ;;y }p;-;#'Lurr*our ord inanc-e doesn'!t require it as t read it. Bf,wever, r ,iuia certainrylook favorably upon putting concrete curbirg arourd your parkirg iio. --
uVbiggest corcern is that weire sitting in an
-agriculturar irea u,fo ," u."producing what I think is goirg to be a tremjndous traffic aeneratoi.--ecoLlector. into tfiis particurar spot. Brsiness week in tne l"ast *."tr, r.,uo .narticle that irdicated tha-t minilture gorf c.ourses are doirg quite we[. rthink we see an example of that on ru i ard TH l0r and r think we shouii viewEnrs as a lErmanent structure- ard not as a temporary structure untit somethingbetter comes. arong- r donrt lmor., that rue've aone J Eaffic study. rave wedone a traffic study?
Barbara Dacy: llo r,re have not for this.
Councilman BoyE: I. gather- that we,re sayirg we're preparing to approvesomething that r think wirl generate . gieai deat or traffil. r='i "orn.ystudy done?
Barbala Dacy: rhe county has reviewed the site plan. Their recommendation$ras that the access be located 3AA feet to the norti of the intersection.
Councilman Boyt: ttaybe people who are more familiar vrith that particularinEersection than I am can idd to more Ehat.
Barbara Dacy: Ive do have books upstairs from the rnstiLute of TrafficEngineers that estimate the amouni of traffic to be generated from miniaturegolf courses and retai r uses and so on- r think when we went co throuqn theprocess last spring the major concern was the batting buirdinq u.".r"'ti"twourd generate more traffic on a consistent basis. the miniaiure goti .orrs.traffic srould be seasonar in nature. peak periods wourd be .. s.t,i.i"y-"*:Surday ard evenings.
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Barbara Dacy: It's considerably less than a retail use or commercialrecreational use.
courci lman Bolt: you don't consider t},is to be comparabre with a retail use?
Mayor HamilEon: r guess if we did a Eraffic study it wourd probably sho,, uswhat r.ve already know and that's tiat rH 5 is overused and if we r,.rl .n.tnuause along uhe highway it's goirg to continue to overload it some .o."1"-r n .r"no other coments on the tltD proposed i terns before us.
councilman Bo!'t: Then we're saying we make this amerrlment Ehat. anyone in theagriculEural area can come in and appry for a miniature gori .ori"L-.L'" gorrdrivirg rarrye?
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City Council l,teeti ng - Novsnber 16, 1987
l,byor Hamilton: Right, as a cordiEional use.
@uncilman Bol.t: Ard basically we can only turn down a conditional userequest when there is some werriding
"onc-er.r. we canrt do it because tlErEighbors donrt want it there?
Mayor tramilton: @rditional use has alreays given us a great dear of ratitude.
Roger loatutson: you bave a good discretion on iL you canrt tum it dohrnbecause the neighbors don'a rike it. ttrey frown on that. you have toexercise your ohrn judgment.
l,ral,or Hamilton: Ihat's true BilI. thforturEtely that's Ure case.
councilman Horn: r berieve that one of the requirements we put on here isthat it be located adjacent to a rnajor road wiii an off street ac=ess.
Erom a collector or an arterial. Not just an off_sEreeE
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Councilman Johnson:
access.
Councilman Hom: rihich wiII Ljrlit it to sqne degree.
councirman Johnson: rhere aren't that many sites who could deverop this. wespeci fied lTr 5 ard TH 2L2- !$e'!re not openl.ng this r4r to ere entir! a-zdistrict.
Mayor llamilton moved, councilman ricrn secorded to approve the zoning ordinanceAmerrlment Request *82-4 to amend Articre v, section s(a) to auow g5tf drivingranges with or without miniature gold courses as a conditionat usJ in the A-2,Agricultural Estate District ard tb amend Articre v, section 9(14) to aiiowstandards for golf driving ranges with or without miniature goit -rr""",
l. The location of the driving range is rimited to being adjacent toTH 5 and rH 2r2 ard access must be from a corlector 6r aiteriar whichleads to TH 5 or fH 2L2.
2. Hours of otrEration shall be from sunrise Eo sunset.
3. provision of adequate parkirg areas anl submission of lanrscapingplan in conformance with Article VIII of Ehe zoning Ordinancel
4. !b site shall be located within 500 feet of a single familyresidence.
the building to be consEructed on any site would be a maximum of g06square feet ard shall be painted in carth tones.
AII voted in favor and motion carried.
Mayor Hamilton: rtem b is to approve the condi Eional use permit document.ltE appricant has said that he hasnrE rev iewed the 1g items. rs there imotion to handle itqn 5(b)?
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City eruncil tteeting - Novsnber lG, l9g7
@urci1man Johnson: Did the alplicant get this?
Mayor namirton: r don'E ttrink so. yourve been working with him ratherclosely, it's hard to bel ieve he hasnrt.
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Barbara Dacy:
received it?I know the pa.cket was sent out to you on Friday.You have not
John tryanus: frve been out rcrking at lhe site so f haven I t gotten my mail.
Barbara Dary: It was sent to the Saratoga Drive address.
counciLnan Johnson: wtri re we have _a slight break here, Bitr r^,as tarking aboutthe wetlards down there. B1z improvirq tf6 ,r"-tf..n", f 'ao Lr"l Ji;;,opinion on tlnr. rf wetre not building tr,. uuEing'""g.; ;ffi;t iii" .i*.we aren,t, our amount of impervious su-.fa.e beirq added to tf,. area aieminimal. Ihe amount of inc-rease .unoii tirirorld require an increasedholding pord should be minimar- tf we can reeg tirat area as an infirtrationarea versus. a holding poni area., I personally Ll i"rre it ,*ofJ-*'l"ii-"...r"ato keep it in the same use as what nature hai it noi{. Not necessariry makinga holding pord in a wetland. is an improvernent L tn" weEland i,, *V o-lr,ini.n.certain wetrarxls have certain p*po""". irri" - rltruna ard the uieu'.-jiri".nt toit appears to be a infiltration ..*. u.r]..t.',ut.r"y therers about a foot ofdirt in many areas on top of rrhat used to U" tt"'wetlards but I think if wedug deep enough we would find trre wetrana Gut-L" tn".". At this time, if wehad approved the other building trrere, itren i wourd be i n.isii.,g- upon
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holding pond to srow down trre iunoriloiil-;; the creek Ehere but at rhisti:ne I don'r rhink rhere's a great n*i to-t.y-io improue .[ii r.11u,i'. ' ,li,.nyou try to improve something, you someti mes iray scr6w it up.
CounciLnan Horns It's al-ready broken.
Mayor Hamilton: But it's. broken like CLark says. It could be improved I$rould think dranaricatly lec.ause if you walk b-ack rhere ,n... "-i[iiiil *,u."ard iE could be improved to be sqnetl; j ng.
councilman Johnson: Aestheticarry yes but hydrauJ.icalry r,m not sure if theimprovemenE will be anv different'. 'I frir.";i .-L any facts or figures to sayit. As an area of infiitration una .."nr.g" "ilrou.ri water, it $rirr cont.inuefunction as such- you put it in as a pond-and-w6 nurr" u G[iui-.."q,rilI'breedirg area.
courcilman Boyt: rhe hording pond isn'c in the condition in the cprrlition asit stards. I would like -ro see it put in. I think it could f,"ip- i i- i,oo.o,r" -Mr. pryzmus seems be r.ri J.l ing to puC it in. Is it acceprabi; ;-;*d^l["wetLard aI terat.ion permit?
the
@urEi Iman Johnson: f€ denied it.
Barbara Dacy: If you wantd Eo provide for a conditional use permit, youcould incrude it in corditio.r nu*ber r. by saying, submission of a revised
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gradirg plan by Decsnber Ist inlicatirg location of a holdirg porrl.
Mayor .Hamirton: r guess r was- thinking of the same thing but r would rike tosee. John be encouraged to come bac! ard- reqr:est a wetrard- alteration peimitagain showing what he'is going to do with arr. p"na. r guess rd kind tr rir"e see because you at one- time agreed tlrat you wourd do- that. Just imprwethe pond in the north end. Then we wourd Gve some idea of what it's loing tolook like ard what hers going Eo do because r think y* ,"ura "tiii iii" tohave a [Ermit.
John Prlzmus: rrm working- _with Bill &rgerhardt right rnw arrl werre working onthe changeover frcm the firred in areas 1o put a pord in there ar:r have himard tlp DNR decide how big arrl whether thet think it sttould be the;
lray-or tlamilton:. Okay, ard then that could be a part of your reguest for arnetlard alteration permit coning back to us at another time.
John Prlranus: rt would be nice to have that as a corrlition if you'd let mehave my batting building.
Mayor Hamilton: ltpre's no reason, if you lrant )rou can ask for both of those
19uil. I can't tell lrou to or not to but if that,s somethirg you want to do,thatrs. something you have to decide if you want to c.ome uacri anl request oneor either or both, that's up to ).ou to make Ehat request.
Counci lman Johnson: John, do lDu wmt this pond?
John Pryzmus: I think as far as from tlre area, the pord isntt goirq to hurtme.
councilman Johnson: !'ltEt about the septic slrstems? you talked about t}leconversion there to a holdirg tank versus a leptic systsn.
Balbara Dacy: Nc, therers no change proposed vrith that. conditions 4 arrt 5rsnain the same.
Courci lman Horn: iie could include an asphalt curb.
@uncilman Johnson: I prefer to geE sheet flow off of the parking area.
Hayor tlamilton: r would too. r don'!t know tJEt much about erater rurpff butit would seem that if you have water runnirg off, don't yoo decrease theamount of verocity coming off of an area by doing Ehat. Ttrat,s hrtErt $errealvrays. tryirE to do.
Barbara Dacy: that be addressed ard revieued by staff.
Mayor Hamilton: It seems.like we aleralrs talk about decreasirg the velocityard that ',Durd seem like thaE mighE do ttrat. t'4aybe it doesn,6, r aonii-r.ror.
Courcilman Horn: tet.rs leave off everythirg wiEh curbs.
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City Counci I },feeLing - Novsrber L6, l:9g7
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Gary Warren: 9ie'11 look at that with the plans that cqne in.
l'rayor tramilton: r guess r'd be curious to know if it does or doesn,t.
courcirman Horn mo\red, r'tayor rhmil ton seconied to a[prove the conlitional useFermit. Document as presented with the for-rowing amendment to the filstcordition:
1. $:bnission of a revised. grading plan by December 1, I9g7 showing theproposed limits of grading, methods of erosion "o.ri.oi ,rrer" --
necessary, irdicating the revised size arrl location oi ti,e-parringlot ard club house arrl 150 feet f rom the centerl ire oi Co"n&-'n*a117, ard proposed berm areas arourd the prtting g.."n ..rd ;iii;to."gorf course area- 115 parkirg 10t shall be p"ii.- - irtv-stali-sna[review and approve said plan lrior to ictiviiy o..".ii"g on Ui. .it .
AII voted in favor ard motion carried.
CONSIDERATION oF ALLoIIING HUNTTNG NORTH OF E !, DNR CONTROLLED COOSE HLJNT.
City Council Meeting - Novsnber 16, l9g7
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Mayor rhmilton: we've had an. opportunity to see one of these previousry anlJim has made some recommendati6is to us.' n"uaing th.o;9;;;;,;--v ^vwr.
recommendations sayirg the ultimate solution thouqh may
-be the erimination ofngn1iry arr together within the city rimits of ct'nhassen r courdn,t aqreewith less. r don'r think that,s the- uttimare =oiriio. "l'.ii.-;;.;- ."areas in the city where you can hunt especially arourd Rice Marsh Lake ors!''anp or wh-atever you calr it- There aie . nurib". of areas soutn oi tu s tnutare certainly acceptable. for shotgun. hunring of birds urri fo;r-;;alin"p. notany lorqer of deer. .llthough -theie is enou{h open space so r think slughunting is probably prer-ry safe also but to-ger'4" 6;-;";i p."'Ji"*,"iil.". a.ggone -geese. PersonaLly I guess, unless everybody wants a report from Jim, Iwourd realry rike to see us just -say no huniing-north of TH 5 p".iJ. -
W"ne*rerit's a special hunt or non-special h-unt so you ton,t run inEo tf,= "*.problans roe did last time. .lhat ,.as a mess--
e.ouncirman Bol'E: r think th3t r.re have a tremendous problem with the geese
'nthis city. As much as r f.ike to see. them fly, i undlrscand that. u go&--*..,ypeopre donrt like to see them.on their yard i.d wh.t they reave behi;: Iwould think that it is a difficurt issul where vre arror,, peopre to-iruni- nortnof TH 5. r agree with you by the wayon hunting south oi tit s. i tr,inx tn.tthere are stilr some areas where peopre should be abre to huni in a.,"iiu"=.ngiven the level of developnent as it is right now. r vrould rixe to'-see-usrook at some sort of reasonable guiderine -that w. chaffee coura use-ii ooinga preli.minary screen on a request. whether it's north or south. I ".rlothink sonrething in the neighborhood of L,600 yards from any noml. - ""--
l4ayor HamilEon: Eeet or yards?
Councilman Boyt: !b, yards.. Ttp reason I say yards is because thaE,sbasicarry the maximun carryi ng distance or a ih-otgun. rt's not go'i-n-g-to ....ythere with any ability to do anything. c€ntremen, I can assure tr,.l'ii-vou t
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City Courcil t4eeti ng - l4ay 4, 1987
SWINGS RECREATION LOCATED ON THE NORTHWEST CORNER OF TH 5 AIID CR 117 , JOHN
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.IPRYZMUS, APPLICANT:
A. ZONING ORDII{A}ICE AMENDMENT REQUEST TO AMEND THE A-2, AGRICULTUML
ESTATE DISTRICT 10 ALLOW GOLF DRIVING RANGES, MINIATIJRE @LF COURSES
AND INDOOR BATTING BUILDINGS AS A CONDITIOML USE.
B. WRTTAIID ALTERATION PERMIT REOUEST TO FILL IN A CTASS A WETIAND.
C. CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT REQUEST EOR A COI,F DRIVING RA}{GE, MINIATURE
@LE COT'RSE, AND AN INDOOR BATTING BUILDINGS.
Mayor ltamilton: ltris item tns been before us before. I think tay is probably
the only orE that hasn't had quite as mudr in[Itt as the rest of us had.
Barbara, is there anything new tlat you might r^rant to present that we wouldnrt
be avrare of or traven I t seen in tlE past dealirg wi ttr this item?
Barbara Dacy: !,1o, not aE this time. I guess if you're just going to consider
each item, we're available to ansr.rer questions ard the applicant is here.
Mayor ttamilton: t€t's begin with A, the Zoning Ordinance Amerdment. request
to amerd the A-2, Agricultural Estate District to allow gou drivirg ranlJes,
miniature golf courses ard indoor batting buildings as a conditional use and
itrs my urderstard ing John that you want all three of those to be considered
and not se[Erately?
John Prlunus: Yes.
lrayor Hamilton: Does the Council have any discussion on this item 6(a)?
Councilman Geving: Yes. Ttris is a major delErture for a Zonirg ordinanc€
Amerdment. Ib include not one of these particular items, the golf driving
rarge but also the miniature golf course ard tle irrioor battirq facility.
This issue has a long history and after a lot of deliberation arrl our Minutes
irdicate that we still are lookirg at, in my view, a corditional use Permit
process and the only thing that's acrceptable to me as a counci Iman is a golf
drivirg rarge facility. I donrt believe that tlle miniature golf course meets
tlre intent of our zoning ordinance. It is in fact a retail facility. A
commercial facility ard it fits more appropriately in a commercial setting ard
I can't for the life of me believe that we would even attempt to consider the
irdoor battirg facility in what I would call an agricuLtural districE that is
intended for at some future point a rural residential area in ffjle year 29q0.
We're talkirg about an interim facility plan for this lard use. I vrould say
that if anything should go on that lard, ard I believe it should be utilized.
There has been a substantial amount of developnent there in terms of trees
being placed there. ltrere has been an alteration of the area including the
creek area. That a Iardowner does have some rights to deveLop a portion of
his property even in an interim use. I feel that the golf driving range for
my purposes at least, does meet an interim intent of our Ordinance. I think
that could fit witi the idea that there would be a small shed facility ard I'm
thinkirg in the area of 500 square feet maximun to house a tractor ard
$rbatever office facilities tlpre are for the issuarre of cLubs ard counting of
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balls and things like that. rhat there wirl be no commerciar enterprise ofthis property. !,Io verding r^rhatsoever of pop, ice cream or any othei suchcommerciar ventures. 'ItEt it be strictly for the recreation -of golfing andthe drivirg rarge. so therefore, rrm sayirg that there would be no ,r.foing o.concessionaire t]4E activities. we would fence it compretely with a 6 footrdire mesh fence. r think that would be appropriate. show us- a site pran witha lardscaping pran John. we need that. i want to see vrhere you're piantingsar.e ard \^rhat they wilt rook like in years to come ard under ni ci rcr:istanceswill r think that rre courd even conlider an arteration to the r4retrard thatrsexistant on that property. Do not viol-ate that wetlanl ard r have in ourpa.cket tonight from Dr. Rockererl whom r kno$, and bave worked with for a numberof years, an opinion from the Fish ani wirdrife service that sa].s ttrere strourabe no alteration to the wetland. lb, if ],ou can do your facility, ],ou candrive barls ard corLect the barrs under tiose circumstances, r feel that youctourd hord a facility out on tltat lard and run a profitable business. rhatrstle erd of my c.oments.
courci rman Johnson: r terd to agree with Dale on this. Especially on thewetrards part. r ber ieve that you can get the wide bodied iire or whatevervehicre that could rEvigate on the wetGrd more the tractors that are therenow would just farl- into the wetlard basically. Therers no way you cluld pickup the balrs with those existing tractors. you would have to haire tl1e littletire or whatever to be able to navigate within the area. rrm not territlyopposed to, like some of the planning commission members said that they $rerenot opposed to having the putt-putt or mini-golf in'conjunction with tiredriving range- the mini-gorf by itserf r'm lotarry against out there but inconjunction with a driving range as a smalrer enterprise, r,m not terriblyopposed Eo but r wourd totalry agree with Dale and the planning commission onno further alteration, it,s already been altered, to that wetlards.
councilman Horn: Just a clarification. r believe the queslion was, werreasking for a zoning ordinance amendment to include all three. rf r heard Daleand Jay right they said they vrould not go along with that.
@uncilman Geving: That v,,as the intent of my statsnent, yes.
@unci lman Horn: It seerns like that,s a1l I heard.
Mayor llamirton: From my stardpoint r think what rve seen John on your pLansis an over intensi ficaton of the use for the land. I don't think tire uattingthirg fits- r certainry tlr-.nl u drivirg range is very useabre there arongwith the miniature putt and if you were to put a minijolf thing there that,ssimilar to the one on rlr r0r arrl TH 7, which r think iJa real n-ice facilityard does a good business, r courd certainry see that as an asset to that area.r think an indoor battirq facility may be sbmethirg that our town could usebut I don't think it fits on that piece of land so r agree vrith the othercouncil members. yourve asked for three thirgs and r haven't heard anyoneagree tlnt au three shourd be in that lErticurar l-ocation. r guess i motionis in order on itsn A.
councirman ceving: r will move to approve a zoning ordinance Amerdment toamerd the A-2, Agricurturar Estate District to aLlow gorf drivirg ranges as a
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conditional use. r think the other i tems that r hear would farl into thecorditionar use permit itself as a part of that ard those corditions howeverwourd also incrude the planning commission's recommendations because this isan amerdment to an ordinance. There have to be some other things that vrer"rouLd place in the ordinance to structure it and that is, (l) lLation islimited to being adjacent to TTI 5 and TH 212 ard access must be from acorlector or arteriar streets to TH 5 ox nl 2L2. we're trying to look to thefuture not just at this particular facirity but to the amendnent to theordinance. licurs of otrEration shar-r be from sunrise to sunset and thatadequate parking ard submissioo of a rarxlscaping plan shall be in conformancewith Article vrrr. rdo site shall be located- wiltrln 500 feet of a singlefamily residence. We'lI discuss that in a minute because there may b6 aconfrict but that shourd be one of the items. r wourd like to add- anotheritem, that there wourd be no verdirg of concessions on the site. Any buildingfor tle plrpose of storing golf driving equipment such as the barl rLtriever,the tractor ard smarr office would be rimited in size to 5oo square feet, arrlbe painted in an earthtone.
There was no second ard motion failed for Iack of second.
lEyor Hamilton: John, did you want to say sonethirg?
John Pryzmus: I didn,t know if you wantd to see a plan or anything likethat.
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Mayor Ham i Iton:
we got.it.we were given copies of your plan unless it's changed since il
John Pryzmus: l.to. The only thing I would like to mention is thaE I spent alot of time today ard the last couple days, I have I00? backing from ttrebusiness community, my peers, what they see is a need out therl for thecommunity. I went through different areas in the community to fid out theresidents and people r.rho don't have businesses in tor"rn. aasically they were
902 for it. The l0? that didn't sign the petitions either didnrt know enoughabout the project to sign it or their husband or wife wasn't home so theywanted to make a joint decision so r feer here that we have community supportof jusE about 100? for the project.
. Batting cages are a big part of it. Myfinancial backers won't be involved if I don,t have the totjl project so Iwonrt be able to go into a financial contract with you if you lim1t this itjust a driving rarge. Basically I have a driving range oui there now so Ijust $ranted to let you know that rtve done a rot of homework rike you've askedDale. I hired ttle architects. I hired the engineers. Irve dorE everythingthat the city, we've moved things around to the west anl north ana soulh and
have done everything that r courd possibly do wit} staff basicarly to be tordthat I donrt have any more than I had 'oefore even though you took it away.That $ras a matter for the courts to decide. Really it comes down to l,vestrEnt about $lO,qAO.qA with plans ard what have you to get the same thing Igot ttlree monttrs ago. If you rdere going to tell me the same thing, why didn.tyou just tell me that three months ago that no matter what you do.- lb;atter
how many plans ard architectural drawirgs you get because it isn't goingmatter. It donrt matter what the peopt e of Chanhassen want. It's what }rouIErsonally want that matters.B
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Jack Roberts: we werenrt here for this part of it but it's news to me that
somebody was going to be developirg a drivirq rarge ard mini-golf ard battingcage. I gre$, 14) in suburban Gricago and one of my favorite sports as a
teenager, goirg witi my dad ard later on in high school ard college witJ: mybrothers, there was ...which was a farm tlpe of place with a double deckerdrivirg range ard mini-golf c.ourse anl outdoor battirg cages and we spent onehell of a lot of Eime there doing all three at one time. We didnrt go therejust to do baseball because if you put up a batting cage someorE in this town
who might need it for all the kids like my three sons who are 9 and l0 yearsold, where are they going to go just to go battirg ard not be able to buy ic-e
cream or a can of pop ard can only do it from sunrise to sunset. t{e11, thatrs
real good hours in April, May ard September. It seems like when yourre a
teenager you may $rant to be out IEst 8:00 at night. If this business wouldfly, I think something Llke 10.96, LL:.O,, L2.qA at night during certain timesof ttrc weeks. I think at least a can of pop or nibbte of chips or candy bar
or grnn something like that would be appropriate if yourre going to run a
business and unless lrou don't have kids that play baseball arri golf, this area
could use somethirg other than just the nice mini-golf thatrs up on IH 7 ard
TH I6L. Where is there a driving range that you can go to ard not have to be
a member or feel that you have to play 18 holes. I heard George prieditis on
my softball team tonight said we could go to a batting cage in St. paul.
Where is the closest batting cage for tlE kids that are in basebaLl or for
dads, for a bunch of jocks who just $rant to go out and hit ard not 90 down to
the metrodome for two days of tte year ard try ard nake tte team down there.
There may be a need for something like this in the recreation area in not toofar away from dor^rntown Chanhassen ard what is that site doing right now? It,svegetating. I don't know about wetlards and all of that... I just heard aboutthis in the last half hour but I s[Ent hours at a plac€ tike that when I was akid arrl I still play basebal l and I stil1 play golf and I love it and I got
kids that I would like to take to do that right now because they want topractice and rather than in my backyard or at Chan Etementary where we pound
solfballs or golfballs. That's where people practice their golf in Chan rightnow. I think maybe, maybe there is a need for this here and if you guys could
work something out.
Mayor Hamilton: I don't think anyone is saying there is not a need for it.
What werre saying is ttle location is not in the area that we think it should
be in anl the use of that particular piece of land is probably not suited.
Jack Roberts: CouLdnrt you use draintile or pipes or sornething to...
Mayor Hamilton: t{e deal $rith what we see presnted to us. We donrt talk to
the applicant ard tell them how to do his plan. we canrt do his planning forhim. Any other conments.
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Councilman Horn: 'Ibe motion woutd be then if we decide we don't want to give
all three of these, the motion would be to deny the zonirg ord inance amendmentat this point. tlowever, what I would like to see happen is to see this go
back ard have a Zoning Ordinance amendment that vrould include golf courses aswell as driving ranges because I was just as appalled as the planning
Commission to fird out we donrt have a plaoe to [xtt a golf course in
Chanhassen- I think itrs ridiculous Ehat Bluff Creek has to be a c.orriitional
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use permit. I rrould like to have this whole ord inanc.e looked at.
Mayor Hamirton: r vras surprised to see that also. we missed that somehor^r,golf courses, ard I have no problem with miniature golf courses either. Idonrt have any problem vriti irdoor batting buildings if they are p.rt in theright place.
Courci Iman @ving: ltlere else are you going to [xlt them?
councilman Johnson: r haven't looked at that questioo yet. without lookingat tle question ard having the planning Commission give me advice on thatquestion, I think it's a good idea for ttrsn to reviets that first.
CourciLman Horn: that's why I think vrerre premature in suggesting a zoning
ordinanoe amerdment tonight. This is a specific request toi a zoning
ordinance amendment for this project. For those three uses. If werre sayingthat werre not goirg to allow those three uses, our only option is to denythis request. !br^r we cluld go beyond that and say we wint the planning
commission to rook at some tl4ge of a zoning ordinanqe recomnerdation to us forallowing golf courses ard driving ranges and mini-putts or whatever $re want toinclude in that but I don't think that's the form of a motion. The motion iseither to accept this or deny this as I see it.
Councilman Johnson: Dale's motion was to accept orE-third of it. t1y motionis to accept two-thirds of it.
Councilman Horn: Brt why make a zoning ordinance when you haven't studied theissue? glhy not ccme back with that unless itrs tied to a specific proposal?
Counci Iman Johnson: the additional issue is the golf course.
Barbara Dacy: Yes, there was a specific request for driving ranlles, miniaturegolf course ard then irdoor batting buildings and therefore r^re processed a
request in light of that. We did not specifically advertise for golf courses.I think t}le Ewo though are vast.ly different. I think what's being proposd
tonight is a different intensity than a golf course is ard a golf cDurse vrouldrequire a selErate ard different review process than a driving range. Ihatts
i.rhy Staff went ahead ard process this request. We can go back anl pick rpgolf courses at a later point but we came from the standpoint that you didn,ttEve to have a gol-f course in erith ttre amenlment to go alorg wittr a driving
range.
Counci lman Horn: I understand thaE. My point is that if werre not going to
amerd all three of these uses this evening, it isn,t necessary for us to amerdany of ttrem this evening.
l,layor Hamilton: thatrs true.
t/',ay Or. ..We have Ewo options. We can either do iE tfiat
Barbara Dacy:
or ttEyr re not.
So vrhaE you're saying is they are eiEher appropriate in the A-2
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City Counci I tteeting - l,lay 4, 1987
e-ounci lman Johnson 3 And my motion says that two out of three of them areatrpropriate if they are together.
l'!ayor. riamilton: r agree with clark. r have no probrem with irr:loor battingbuildings but r donrt think that lras arlowed foi in our ordinance revision.ilhr. Vlhy don't we also take a look at that and see where they would beal lowed .
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councilman Johnson: cenerar recreational facirities. tbke the step beyond.rt courd be more than a battirg cage. There are other sports recreitiotialfacil-ities that could be conmercially available.
Barbara. Dacy: Right. Tte irdoor batting buirding term is very specific arrJtle zoning ordinance does generalize in the business generar and Lusinesshighway. r think it says sports crubs anl or cemmercial recreation so thattype of use c!u1d be alloried in our ccnnrercial district.
Mayor H,amilton: Maybe that needs to be specifically outlined so applicantsr.rould kno$, exactly hftere they cDuld propose to put this thing.
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Councilman Johnson moved, Councilman Geving seconded to aprove a zoning
ord inance Amendment to allow driving ranges with miniature golf courses as anaccessory to the drivirg range as a corditional use in the A-2 District withthe following corditions:
ltre location is timited to being adj acent to TH 5 and IH 212 and
access must be frcrn a collector or irterial which leads to .IH 5 orfi] 2t2.
Hours of otrEration shall be frcrn sunrise to sunset.
Provision of adequate parking areas arrl suhnission of a lardscapingplan in conformance with Article VIII.
!,lc site shaU be Iocated within 500 feet of single fauni Iy residences.
Any building be smalt ard earthtone in color for dispensing of golfballs.
6. that golf courses be taken back to the planning Commission to reviewwhat zonirg district golf courses belorg in.
courcilman Johnson and counci lman Geving voted in favor and counci lman Hornard lGyor H,anil ton olposed. There was a tie vote, 2-2.
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councilman Horn: My recommendation wourd be to deny the request that's before
''s ard then put this subj ect back to the planning commission to clarify eachof those issues and give us a recomenda E ion.
Barbara Dacy: Ito clarify each drivirg rarqe, miniature golf course.
Counci lman tlorn: Ihe golf course, the irdoor batting, address all four of
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those issues. Where they belong and make that part of the overall zoningordinance amendnent.
. Councilman Geving: Then he's taking a high risk.
Mayor Hamilton: That,s why I asked John that question when we started. He
wanEs to have all three of them or nothing. I guess that's the way I look atit.
Counci lman Ceving: He might get nothing.
Pat FarrelL: You ought to have that on record.
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Mayor Hamilton: And get a recommerdation back from the planning commission asto where they should be as an amerdnent to the Zonirg Ord inance.
Counci lman Ceving: ltre problem though is you canrt think of everything.tetrs say that tte a[plicant would have asked for irdoor archery for eximpleor some other recreational pursuit. He didn.t. lb just happened to go withbatting here ard that could go in another whole area that we haven,t evendiscussed here at any time so there courd be any number of other recreationalitems that are going to be proposed to us as councit menbers ard we'rl have tohardle tlrem on a one [Er one basis and not ever]time be brought to thecouncil. our ordinances are never going to be ,ble to adequa-tely answer alrthe questions that people are going to pose as a proposal io us.-
Mayor Hamilton: But they can do a bett-rr job than vrhat we,re doing now. wecan go back and Iook at irdoor batting facility. If thatrs in a general
recreati.onar use than vre better have a definition of a general recreationaluse. What does that entail? Does it enta il- indoor golf? Irdoor batting?Irxioor archery? Indoor shooting? I€t,s be more specific about indoor. you
can Iist 100 things and say those are things that are ircIuded.
Counci Iman Geving: Maybe I'm getting kirrl of where Clark's com irg from. Ialways like to look at the issue in front of us. Ihe issue is a iequest forindoor battirg area, a miniature putt-putt area ard also for a golf -driving
range. Thatrs really what rre're talking about and we,re being asked to amendour Ordinance to include those as corditional uses for this particular piec.eof lard. lf,low we can either accept that or deny the request or we can aiceptthat witfr corditions ard alter the request ard not completely deny it but
approve the portions that we prefer as four councj.l people here tonight arrilet the applicant go about his way and start deveJ.oping this.
Mayor Hamilton: But that was my reason for the question to the applicant whenlte started this. He wants to have all three of them.
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Counci Iman Geving: If that,s what he $,ants then I agree with Clark.
Mayor llamilton: Is that true John? Do you want all three to be considered?
Do you \^rant all three or nothing? Basically that is what you,re saying.Thatrs r"rtat I asked you at the @innirg of tle meeting. Oo you want jtt
three of these to be considered and passed or none of them?r
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City Courcil lGeting - lray 4, 1987
I John Pryzmus: r guess if you want to make an amendment to incrude the drivingrarqe ard miniature oorf as itrs proposed r^rithout tite batting cage, r'*iIItake tlat at this point.
t'layor tlamilton: Vlculd you include gol-f courses in your rnotion?
councilman c=ving: !,ro and r think the reason rdtly we donrt have that in frontof us tonight, thatrs another issue.
Councilman Johnson: hle, are your miniature golf courses only associatedspecificauy with driving ranges or are they golng to be an alrowable use?
Counci lman FyilS: yes. I,m gttting this in as an auxilliary use with aoutdoor golf driving range.
Ma}ror Hamilton: }*ty?
Councilman Geving: ry!"" I canrt -see p,tting up a miniature golf course inan A-2 area as a separate Tmmergiat en€erprii. r think it ha;-;; qo}ongwith tl.e intenr of whar we're ratking ,b;;-;;;" ard rhat,s a golf drivingrarrye facirity. r want to put $Ern fogether. r don't want to-see un-'alplicant come in for example with a miniature golf application for the HesseFarms or someplace io the A-2 District ard here $re carve out a one acreminiature goJ,f because it happens to fit our ioning ordinance and it would beaFproved because it wourdnrt come before the council. rtjs a" apgiorrJ urnlegi timate business arrl I want to see those.
Jol{r-Pryzmus: Can I just menlion one thing? On the square footage of thebuilding for the clubhouse- 500 square r""t, r don't )inow if r ;; "u"., g.aone tractor in there for storage in the winter ani r wourd preiei-io-rrJve a*my equipment stored inside in the winter. iaeart with staff and r will betakinq the dome down ar,] puttirg "o*.tt i.,g a-iii"r"nt there ard r courd build anice. Iooking. buitding witir wind-ows ;ii rhe ,.v l.ouna it so Ehe manager canhratch ard make sure everything .is running .*ootr,ty ard arso i,.""" "'illuq. aoo.so r can prrk Ty equipment in in the wiiter but 560 sguare feet is about theaverage size of a bedroom.
Councilrnan Ceving: ldo itrs not.
Councilnan Johnson: Tbatt s 22 by 22 basically.
Councilman Geving: I figured it out because itrs about 22 by 22. about thesize of a normar garage or 2q by 2s. r just picked the number John. Give mea number.
John Pryzmus: the thing about it is, Lhe slab out there is 30 by 40 that Ialready have poured ard that wourd house both tractors, por.rer mowers ard whathave you. I could cut rhat down. I "in "iriy. Lve part of it in a patio butI:T.]":t thinkirg tlraE 5OO. square feet, r gei a ceuple tractors in ard then Istill have equipment sitting out ard """.1uoay" mad at me because r don,thave everythirg in house you know.T
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City Council Meeting - l4ay 4, L987
Counci lman Ceving: Okay, Staff reconmended 800. Would you buy 800?
John Pryznus: I guess if I can get it in.
Courci lman Geving: I'11 anerd my motion to include an 809 square foot shed.
Counci lman Horn: ItlI a,rnerd my secord.
Courci lman Ceving moved, Councilman Horn secordd to approve the zoning
ord inance Amendment request to amerd the A-2 Agricultural Estate District to
include a golf driving range ard miniature golf courses as an accessory use to
golf driving rarges as corditional uses in the A-2 DistricE wit}l the following
corditions:
the location is limited to being adjacenE to TH 5 and TH 212 and
access must be from a collector or arterial which leads to IH 5 ard
TLI 2L2.
Hours of operation shall be from sunrise to sunset.
Provision of adequate parkinq areas ard srhnission of a lardscaping
plan in conformarrce w'ith Article VIII.
lb site shall be located within 500 feet of single fanily residences.
the building to be c.onstructed on any site would be a maximum of 800
square feet, painted in earthtones to house the facility.
AII voted in favor ard moti.on carried.
B. WE"TT,AND ALTERATION REQUEST TO FILL IN A CI,ASS A WETI,AND.
Mayor Hamilton: I believe a good share of that wetland has been filled
through the years when there has been plowirg ard agricultural activities
oceurring on that property. I believe that the aPplicant also may have filled
in part of that so I asked the Staff today if tha! in fact still is a Class A
wetland. If it does have the grasses and the standing water and everything
else that's required to be classified as a Clas-s A ldetlard. I guess Irm not
convirced that it is any longer whether by the applicanE's doing or somebody
elses so Irm not sure if wet re really talkirg about a permit for a Class A
$retland. Is it really a CLass A wetlar|l? By whose definition also?
Barbara Dacy: It is a Class A wetlard by definition of the City wetlard
Ordinance wtrich was adophed in 1,984.
Mayor tlamilton: ltere are marsh grasses and cattails and all tllat sort of
thirg growirg ouE there?
Barbara Dacy: There is a small amount of reed grass as Dr. Rockwell pointed
out. The area is not good for habitat however, the vegetation in ttE soils do
irdicaEe a wetlard. lbwever, it is obv ious that the site tlas been cultivatedfor in excess of 50 years it was a site for tree farm. The quality of that
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portion of the wetland is really in question and the applicant subn itted aletter detailirg the history of tte use of that partici:iar site. As waspointed out in the report, the portion of the r.retland contained in the site isalproximately 4 acres ard thatrs the remainirg part of tlre originar aroiunenttotals 78 acres and extends to the northern part of the properiy.
Councilman Johnson: I walked this wetlands several times now. Theredefinitely are peat S.."_=:: and your aquatic ,,,egetation trying to ipr""t ,rpirhat was moved on top of it. we've got standing $rater in irre-pord it.t-us.ato be kind of the feed to t},e top of the wetra.ds from the apliarances of it.coing from his proposed tee line down 2ga yards, it.s not mudh of u t".1i".nanymore so on your prints, the top half of it has pretty well been fiued by 5inches to a foot of soils. The 1ovrer, especially U"yorn tf,e 250 yard range,
Ili:I i. a pretty good golfer, personally r can,i mafe t}re 26A yaid range, isstlrr much peat soirs without much filling going on. There has -been soriegrading. going on in ther-. As it exists, rim n6t a soils exlErt to tell )rcuhow much it can hold as fa! as tractors or anlthing. r thini you coul,--probabry operate fairry easity down to *E 2os yard point. Befween the 2ggara 256 creates a probrem ard beyord 250 is pea€ thai most anything is goingto drop into. With good grass dovrn b *E ,66 that shouldn't be a lot 6fproblem. r wouldn't want to see any more arterations down to the vretrards asit is. I believe there is some recommendations that said if we did arlowalterations, they wanted a permanent sedimentation basin at tlF bottom. rfthis is all grass, youtre not going to be getting much sediment coming out ofit. what woutd vre be tryirg to settre in ihe sedimentation basin? oi are welooking for a nutrient Gsii to take out the nutrients from the soil?
Gary Warren: I looked at it from that starxlpoint as a buffer zone betweenerhat would be rernaining as wetrand versus the activity that wourd be conauctedon the site. From fertilizers or anything else that would have to beutilized out there.
CounciLman Johnson: Ihis is pretty much the headrrraters for r^rhat, Bluff Creekr berieve. At this point Bluff creek is only a foot or two r.ride anl thatfeeds a lot of our chain of lakes so the heatwaters must be protected andthat's where Irm ccming frcru in protecting this wetlards.
Counci Iman Geving: Ihe only comment I want to make, Irm not too concernedabout the h,etlarxls as r am about staying away from the creek area. That wasthe problem we had before. r do respect Dr. Rockvrerl s recqrmendations.
Councilman Horn: I just think r+e should keep it as it is.
Mayor Hamilton: I guess I don,t see any reason why it canrt partially befiLled in at reast up to the 954 erevation. That iould stilr be "no.rfh .."ufor some pording near the creek for run-off into the creek and stilr L abreto filter water.
Mayor Hamirton moved to approve the wetrard Alteration permit request to filrin a cla_ss A.wetlard up to the 9s4 contour ard perm it approvar rrom tte ermycorps of ftigineers. there $ras no second and notion aiea ror lack of second.
5l
7f
I (
City Counci 1 Meeting - t4ay 4, 1987
Councilman C€v ing moved, Councilman Horn secondd to deny ttte WetlandAlteration Permit request to fill in a Class A wetlard. AII voted in favorexcept l4ayor Hamilton r.ho opposed and rnotion carried.H
CONDITIOML USE PERMIT REQUEST FOR A GOLF DRIVING RANGE M INIATURE GOLF COURSE
AND AN INDOOR BATTI NG BUILDINGS.
Counci lman Johnson: Because we're building something within 200 feet of ardetlards, how does that affect this ard if there is not going to be anyfurther work on the wetlands, does the Conditional Use have to have the Corpsof A.lf,Iry Engineer's approval also?
Barbara Dacy: I take the proposed Council action to mean approve theCorditional Use 1Ermit for the driving range ard basically the appl icant can,tfiII into the vretland area. He can not alter it so a specifie condition
should read that the wetlard area as identified on the plan should remain asis.
l4ayor Harnilton: That's what lte just trEssd.
Councilman Geving: ldo alteration of the area. I'm talking about alterationin Eerms of excavation ard replacenent of soils in the retlarri area.
Councilman Johnson: So planting grass seed in the hretlard area, would that be
acceptable or r"puld that be considered fitl?
Mayor Hamilton: Are ere going back to the last motion are $re to clarify thatat this point?
Counci lman Johnson: the l-ast motion almost kicks out the corditional use
lErmit because this lard would be useless erithin tlE wetlards that's in the
middle of the driving range unless he can snooth it out to plant grass.
l,layor Hamilton: If he doesnrt fill it to the 954 contour then it would be
more useable. We still have a drainage area ard filtering area before it getsto the creek.
WETTAIID ALTERATION PERMIT TO INSTALL THE I,AKE ANN INTERCEPTOR AIID THE IAKE
VIRGINIA FOT€EMAIN IN AND NEAR CI,ASS A AND CTASS B WETT,ANDS ALONG THEEliEimnln-nuffi llrc-sbEt-neesTEEy-rnoutn-+r-rotns,-THR6GHTfr E-einGasssN
TAKES BUSINESS PARK,NORTH OF T.^AKE SUSAN AND II{1O EDEN PRAIRIE, METROPOLITAN
I
WASTE CONTROL COI,IMISSION,APPLICANT.
Councilman Johnson: there was a point in here where Dr. Rockwell made a
recommendations. It wasnrt within the corditions. I thought it would tnve
been good to have those recomrnerdations for the areas alongside the wetlardsto be rec.dnpacted imediately Eo prevent, I'm trying to fird it in here.r
52
Mayor Hamilton moved, Councilman @ving seconded to approve a Corditional Use
Perm it request for a golf driving rarge ard miniature golf course. A11 votedin favor ard rnotion carrid.
commission r""{rnn
1987 - page 27
(Planning
April 22,
AII voted in favor and
Siegel moved, HeadIa seconded thatapproval of the Wetland Alterationconditions:
that that come before the planning
the Planning Commission recommendPermit *87-6 vrith the following
preserved by a conservation easementthe ordinary high water mark.
easement,that and
conf iguration
Commission for
of the roadways
review.
motion carr ied.
I
2
The Class A wetland shall beestablished at 75 feet from
The applicant shalI provide drainage easements over the pondingareas throughout the site and not allov, any alteration ti theareas.
A11 voted in favor and motion carried.
Erhart: can you explain what item number 2 in your recomnendation means.
OI se
Irm
that
Erhart !
Ol sen :
n: What- they are providing, in hrhat they caII a storm waterjust making sure that they definitely pr;vide easements overthose are protected areas so they w-on-, t be altered.
SW I NGS RECREAT ION
Altered?
Such as mowing the lawn.
LOCATED ON THE NORTHWEST CORNER OF H I GHWAY 5 CO. RD.AND1l_7, JOHN PRYZMUS, APPLICANT:
A. ZONING ORDI NANCE AMENDMENT REOUEST TO
[F-DT]vruEESTATEDISTRICTTO ALLOW GO
COURSES AND INDOOR BATTJNG
AMEND THE A- 2,AGRICULTURAL
RANGES, MINIA TURE GOLF
BUILDINGS AS A CONDITIONAL US r,
B.CONDITIONAT USE PERM IT REQUEST FOR A GOLE DRIVING RANGE,MINIATUREGOLE'COURSE,AND AN INDOOR BATT I NG BU I LDI NG.
C. WETLAND ALTERAT I ON PERMIT REQUEST TO EILL IN 4 CLASS A WETLAND.
Barbara Dacy presented the staff report on the Zoning ordinance Amendmentrequest.
Conrad: Where else would a golf driving range be in the city?
Dacy: Currently a golf driving range isdistricts so basically a golf coursL orpermitted or conditional use within lhe
not listed in any other commercialgolf driving range is not aCity of Chanhassen-
.frk*rutrt*(
(
Planning Commission MeetingApri]- 22, 1987 - page 28
i
Conrad: Can you refresh my memory why that is?where we specifically said we did not want thathave a hard time recalling that.
Irn looking atin agricultural som e
area
notes
and I
area.
those
rre met
a non-
Dacy: What happened vras, during the Zoning Ordinance review processseverar times in 1985 and 198G. The Bruff creek gorf course now isconforming use as a golf course but ere do recall d-iscussion that thecommission did have problems with a golf driving range in ihe ruralYou didn't think it was appropriate. rt created some traffic arongroads so it $rasn't approved as a part of the new ordinance itrus tn6appl ication.
Conrad: John, you are the applicant. Specifically John we're talking onthe zoning and before you teII us !rhat your range Jnd rrhat yourconfiguration would rook rike. r donrt know hoi r can limii you to just onesubject- You are asking .for a.zoning change or you are asking to amend the _ordinance based on a project that yol,ve got. r donrt rdant to review theproject yet- r realry do want to ieview ihe concept. of the three thingsthat youtve asked for, in generar in the city of cianhassen. can you ke6pus away from your project for a while? Oo you have anything to telI usabout driving ranges in Chanhassen? Persuade us that we should have drivingranges in Chanhassen is what my challenge to you would be.
John Pryzmus: on page 8, basicarry my feelings in the chaska Herald is anad r deveroped. r spent a lot of time with the peopre planning the d;ivi;grange out there now. I've been in front of the -ity council about twomonths ago and at that Eime we didn't have the total plans and t.he layout of-the new facility. rt had been approved originarry five years ago for adriving range and r never did open it. r w6rked on it giaduarry over therast 5 years and being that the little one r had in town, there was nodevelopmenE on it, r never had a reason to open the new one. r brought inpeopl.e from Chicago, John Jacobsford Golf and we $rent and looked at 6verydriving range in the Twin cities area and there are a rot of driving ."n!.. -that arenrt kept up very well and a rot of them are just an intern -";;;;-.-
piece of property until you put it into an industriai park or rrhatever. vo'arenrt going to- buy an industrial park for driving ranles but you do buy adriving range for industrial parks. with this pr6iect, r'm not proposiirg it-to be used as an industrial park down the road. rl,s a half a mirriondolLar project that should enhance the recreational facirities for thecommunity. rn all the response I've had, they axe Lgoz for the project. r -feel by getting community support, r feel thal r want to show th6 ciuncir -
and the Planning commission that not onlydo r want to make a businessventure out there, rrve already spent a tot or money buying the land. rbought. it on a contingency thtt f couLd have a driv-ing iange then trrit w.sapproved so I guess vrhat I erant to do now. I originally pioposed aminiature g.olf in my originar proposal and that was turne-d down but what rIdant to do is make it financially feasible for me to do it as an investnr-ent -and also make it a s99d thing for the community. with the nature of TH 5and Ehere is not rearly a traffic problem. Thele numbers might not alL ieright but you have approximatety la,oao cars going by there i aay so ttr"ierronrt be a traffic impact. They would be comlng orr or TH 5 and qoing aown
{Planning Commission MeetingApxiJ- 22 1 1987 - page 29
LOg yards on a major collector road which is tar.
conrad: John, r think you are getting into the specifics of the project andIm.really trying to focus on the ordinance itseti right now. we have tolook at the ordinance and say does it make sense to altow drivi"g ,unq.=iDoes it make sense to al1oe, sone buirdings out there and you can come backin a few seconds to tark on the specifics but anything elie that you canshare with us in terms of, r know they are real -croseiy tied togelher.
John Pryzmus: r guess maybe if r could just answer any questions you havebecause if r start rambling on and on r might get back' i'nto tnat. rf therea!e some questions as far as if it wirr be compitibre. My neighbors outther.e, r have a group home to the $rest of me a-nd contractli yaids to thenorth of me. Dale creen has a farm to the south of me. A guy named Larryvan Deveire has the rand to the east of me and r talked to 6im and he feeisit's commercial. one of the gentlemen here, John Hennessey, he has the landto the northeast corner of me so basically rrhat Irm trying- io do by gettingcommunity support is not set a precedence in artowing .ny iina of tommerciitproject. Like Barb stated, a driving range needs a rot of rand. rt isn,trike putting a gas station out there. ThJ miniature golf and the battingcages, the three of them brend together to make it financially feasiblef irst of all but they also make it a nice projec!' for the people inchanhassen- Like you,just had on your map, each deveropei giies park space.They put in basebatl diamonds. The city is acquiring piopeity to add threemore dianonds just a mile to the east of this projeci.- tr,"y ire puttingrights on the park because there is such a demand for a recreationaLfacilities and as a pr-ivate. developer, there won't be any cit.y money oranything like rhat. .This wilt be i private venture so r thini it w6uia iustbe in asking too with what the city llready is doiog with their parks;"e---with their recreational facilities.
Roger schmidt: r live out in that area. r guess my thinking is that rhavenrt seen a driving range yet in the metropoLitan area that r think is adefinite asset as far as.aesthetics go on the community. They are usuarrylocated in more of a business area or with a gotf courle and even a gorfcourse is stuck back in a corner someplace where they aren,t ttrat vGiure.Being a resident of that area, rrm somewhat concerned that we'rr pr.b;;d'gnq yp with a very similar situation that you have with 9gz of the other'driving ranges and rm very much concerned from the standpoint that r don,tsee the city doing much policing in the area of taking caie of what's ouithere right now. That'!s been, for several years, right now it,s notrrinj-uuta junk pire and werve had comments from people out-of-tor.rn and in town -
asking us whaE's going on over there and it,s kind of embarrassing foi us tohave to admit that we're living in an area that rooks rike that. r thinkthat particular spot, as far as driving ranges within the city, r thinkthere probably are spots for them but that particular one, r wouLd think youlook at it as your western gateway into town and r think you shourd look it-that as something that you don'!t want to lr.uild up with things that probabryalen't going to be compJ.imentary to the city. ybu have to aecide ,-t.tt.i-'that is a complimentary -activity or not and obviousry the other ttring ihitm concerned about is the commerciarization of the district. rt's not
{
(
Planning Commission MeetingApti]. 22, 1987 - page 30
allo$red. as far as your zoning now and I think people kind of go by thezoning issues when they decide to locate there ..rd you don't irbilrarilychange them so r think you should give that serious consideration also.
HeadLa moved, Emmings seconded to close public hearing on the ZoningOrdinance Amendment. AII voted in favor and motion carried.
Headla: I don't understand why having a driving range, and the battingthing and the miniature golf is different but I don,t see why a ilrivingrange would be of any benefit. r think there are severar doinside asp6ctsof it but I don't see any upside aspects except the person running therange. I think the people surrounding that might suffer.
(
Conrad: Yourve got to consider themDriving ranges are used.
like a golf course. People use it.
Headra: Then if r look at the location, then r wonder about Galpin Blvd..
Ir-m on that road quite a bit. I ride a bike on that and right notd, I donrtrike the way the cars are on there. Do you have any idea how much trafficcomes and goes from one of those facilities?
Pryzmus: rrn sure there will be some major amount of traffic. r donrt knowwhat you consider major but most of it r{i11 be coEing off of TH 5 so theywourd be coming off TH 5 down 16g ya:-ds and turning in there. The trafficstudy $re do have a parking rot schedured for 16 spaces. we overbuirt theparking lot basicarly. r vrould say a full driving range wouldn.t have morethan 3 or 4 cars at a time. That's comparing apples to oranges because Ehat -was a temporary thing and basically the people vrould want something to dodown on West 79th Street where this will be a business that erilL be
ma i nta i ned
Siegel:
from the
I canrt reca 11
A-2 district.
discussing our reasons for excluding golf courses
Dacy: I canrt pinpoint the date. we didfiIes. It vras a fairly short discussion.
go back and look through the
Siegel: Vlhat lras the justification or the reasoning behind us or staff
reconmending the exclusion from the A-2?
Dacy: The way it $ras proposed, it was lisEed because it gras consistent withour prior Ordinance. However, it was the specific recommendation to havegolf courses and driving ranges removed.
Siegel: In essence what werre doing is removing any possibility of having agolf course or driving range in the City of Chanhassen.
Dacy: Thatrs correct. The Bluff Creek golf course is now non-conforming.
doesnrt make sense.urse in the rolling
Siegel: WeII, that doesnrt make sense to me. It just
If somebody came in with a plan for a beautiful golf co
(
Planning Commission Meet i ngApril 22, 1987 - page 3I
{
hills of chanhassen, rrm sure the city council and the city elanningcomm-issio.n would jump at the chance to invite them in with open arms todevelop that as such. rn lieu of that, r rook at that piece of property andr guess rrm new to the history of it and r guess the apilicant has beenremiss in some respects in his follow through in what -r," rras been pranningfor that. rn arr due respects, r think we shourd approach this as a newapplication for such use and rook at it in that riqli. r think it will bean improvement on that corner and to me the rocati-on is marketable as adriving range and as a miniature gotf course. r tend to favor that. unlessthere is more stronger objections to granting a conditional use permit inthe Zoning Ordinance, I would favor it.
En-mings: r agree with Bob 100t that r canrt imagine why we wouldn't havegolf courses and driving ranges as a conditional use in the A-2 district. rdontt have any probren with that. r agree with the staff that miniaturegorf courses and indoor batting buildings such as this don't belong outthere and berong in a commerciar district. Then having said that, r guessputting a miniature gorf course with the rest of the things that are liere,the driving range and $rhatever a maxi-putt and putting green business arlseems to be pretty cohesive and make sense in this particurar project so rrmhaving some probrems with this. r don't have any problem with the drivingrange being a conditional use in the A-2. r don't think there ought to b6,in condition l, I donrt agree that they ought to be abutting colrectors. rthink they shourd onLy be on arteriars. on major streets, i trrink we wantto rean that way towards major roadways. r think the second condition isvery important that they only be operated from sunrise to sunset. r thinkthatrs adequate in the summer time and r think the rights would be a realproblem for anyone who lived around it. I guess thatrs all I got.
Erhart: I disagree regarding the issue of whether lre should allow golfcourses and these things in the A-2 area. I agree with Bob. I thi;k werearry overlooked sornething in gorf courses and r don,t know enough that wecan lump practice areas in that or not so I don't have a strong fLelingabout that. r do have a strong feeling about buirdings in the A-1 and A-2areas. These metar buildings and they tend to be the area that acts as atransitional area from agricultural Eo the residental. In south Chanhassenwhere people have built these metal buirdings out in the country and r don'tknow for what reason, where they have not been part of a f arm hom es tead,they are realJ.y an eyesore. Even though some of them are werl kept up, theydonrt fit so srith respect to that, I would real against, that batling-practice thing requires metal or any kind of a major industrial typ.i unykind of a non-farm building or a non-house, r donrt think it oughi- to be-part of the A-2 0r A-r. r think it shourd not be part of the A-2 district.r agree with steve entirely as far as the. driving range. r guess as rong asitrs on TH 5 with the correct word is majo-r arter.iaL, I gueJs it's oXay.- --
certainly the one the John ran just west of the city here, as rong as €herewasnrt any buildings and the grass was mowed, I didn't think it ris uneyesore at all. Regard.ing the building on the other hand, if we're going toput a driving range in here, you probably have to have some smalr uui-raiig --
to keep the tractor and stuff out of the rain so r guess r lrourdn,t mind ismall wooden garage or something just to maintain that kind of thing bui
(
Planning Conmission Meet ingApr|J- 22, 1987 - page 32
certainly not a permanent industrial type buirding. r agree the hours oughtto be sunrise to sunset. The second concern, r think in the e-2 area is foemphasize that wedo not want retail business in the A-2 area. Eor example,-r can't have a retail nursery on my nursery farm. r can have whoresate Lutyou canrt have retail. Again, reflecting on that, we have to be realcare-ful if we're going to use it at alr, r think it shourd be on TH 5. That-is the onry appropriate place to have this in the city. so the rest of thecommission can think about that retail issue and we'v-e got to be rearcareful about that. !{e consistentry said we do not wani retair businessactivities down there. r like 4 that certainLy it shourd not be wilrrin sgg-feet of a singre family residence. our wholesale nursery and contractoryards basically have to fit with that rule.
Conrad: That I s a good point.
motion was*At this this point a made and the fol lo$ring
miniature golf courses
discussed occurred.
Conrad: Steve, did you leave out
conrad: r have nothing more to add. r think gorf courses and drivingranges are appropriate in chanhassen. r don't think that buildings o,lt inthat area, specifically indoor batting buirdings, is what I r.rant to see butto use the land that way, r think is appropriale. r $rould vote for thattype of a use in a A-2 district. My onry comments other than that are weshourd have, if we make a notion in favoi, somebody might want to work theword gorf course in. we don't need to and maybe a-gori course is a rrholedifferent set of circumstances. r don't knowi The other part that r wouldlike to see is an intent statement in terms of why we're aiiowing this ancl-rguess one of the intents that r would see as a conditionat use, i! tominimize impact on neighbors in terns of noise, traffic and righting. rthink we need some kind of intent statement arong with this if vre dd cuooseto allov, this as a conditional use.
Emmings: r r,rouldn't tike to see golf courses incruded tonight for tworeasons. First of a1-1, it's not in front of us and that aldays makes meuncomfortabre but secondly, slaff has obviously thought through the kinds of-conditions we should impose on a driving rurrgJ, if wL're going to arlo$, thatas a conditional use and r donrt see thal they have had t[:e opportunity tothink through conditions for gorf courses as i conditionar use and maylethat ought to come back as a separate item.
{
on purpose?
Emnrings: Yes.
Siegel: Does the miniature golf course, in the eyes of us here, reflecta retail establishment? would that be the objection to including thatminiature golf course as a conditional use? rt borders in the aiea ofretail establishment and service recreational type business.
Emmings: The eray I think about a miniature golf thing fits into acommercial area. rtrs compact. you can't put a driving range in just acity rot. you need some room. Miniature golf courses don,t-bothei me in
as
{Planning Commission Meet i ngAp;,il 22, 1987 - page 33
r
the City, they bother me to thinkdoesn't seem to fit at all.
about them being out in the A-2. It just
Siegel: I guess I tend to think of it as a similar type of use to a golfdriving range especially in conjunction with it. rf i6 were to tark aboutspecifics, put a bunch of, -miniature gorf courses 2 miles apart, maybe thatwould be a littre bit different but we,re talking about is-a proposedcomprex here. Not one being here and one being l mire down the road andanother one a mile down the road arL in the a-2 district so r think it,s alittle bit different when you'|re looking at it as a package as just onething.
Bmmings: Let me ask in that regard, Iet's say that we have passed thisZoning Amendment to allow it as a conditional use, if we were somehowpersuaded that a miniature gol-f prace fit in with this particular drivingrange project, could $re allow it?
Dacy: _ What I hear you saying is that you feel that the driving range andthe miniature gorf cgurse rearly shourd act Eogether and not a stand aloneminiature golf situation so if you wanted to phrase your approval in theframework that gorf driving ranges subject to these conditions. Miniaturegolf courses as an accessory use to the golf driving range, that vrould be anoption. You couldnrt have a miniature golf course erithout a driving rangealong with it. If that's what you're saying.
Siegel: I guess to me it makes sense. The whole idea of having a miniaturegolf course, especially when you think about fathers and mothers going outto a golf driving range and they've got a place for their kids to spend sometime. It's sort of a natural. I'm surprised there aren't more combinations
1i ke that around.
Emmings: If vre could, I guess what I would like to do since I made themotion, is Ieave my moti.on out there the way it is and then maybe you can
make a second motion to talk about miniature golf as an accessory use to thedriving range. Would that be alright?
Dacy: Yes, and then you should look at what a miniature golf course is. Itdoes require more lights. You have the windmil. ls and the people to hit theball through and so on so you have to consider those visual aspects also.It is different than a driving range.
Erhart: I $rould like to see us go back and spend some more time on this oneand define it a little bit better. Irm really against putting anything inthe A-2 area that visually is not consistent with either residential o;agriculture and I think you can make a driving range consistent vrithagricultural but I think we ought to define what Che landscaping is going tobe. Buildings in some kind of terms. What buildings can be put on ihereaIrve seen driving ranges with 16 foot high fences and then in a couple yearsthey're f aJ.I ing down.
Emmings: Tim, don't we retain complete control over that when i!'s under
(
Planning Commission MeetingApriL 22, 1987 - page 34
our conditionar use? That to me is the whole reason that it shourd be inthere as a conditionaL use rather than a pernitted use because vre retain arot of control over the plan and the landlcaping and wtrat-itre buildings aregoing to be.
Headla: I doubt thathas to get pretty bad
you have that much control over a conditional use. It_
Emmings: No. when the pran comes in Dave, we rook at it before anythinggets built and we say we_onry arrow you to buird it ii youto ttreJ-andscaping this way. rf you show ui the pran ror- tnl lliraing yourre goingto build and we approve it.
Headla: Irm referring to Tim's conments.
Emmings: You'!re talking about maintaining it after it,s built. That'salways a problem yes.
Headra: r think Tim. made the comment very werl in that a conditionar usepermit is very hard to porice at times. r think a good exampre of that isthe, horse riding farm. once they were in there and there was a dustproblem, and r vras invorved with that to some extent, itrs hard to say youpeopre created 868 of the dust. rt's pretty hard to shut them down because -there is nothing to enforce that. oncl- they were in there, they were inthere -
,".{: . .The_ advantage. to the zoning Ordinance now is that, that originalconditional use permit ,u" upprorr6d several years ago and we do a rot morerestrictions in our current &dinance and thlat's ttr-e purp.sl of thisamendment process is to estabrish thosa type of conaiLions. rf you wantedto add no metal buidtings on the golf driiing,u;;;=-;;-..og9""r.acondition, just authoriie a -buird-ins J take tick6ts or whitev€rr cdr,texceed 800 square feet. r don't knJw but you have that ability to estabrish -conditions through this process.
Emmings: There are.two other things. A conditional use permit can berevoked if they don't rive up to thl condition_s.. , r-. -".vi*r" has arreadyfound that out on o.re occasi-on. That'!s worked here. t.' ".v that a gotfdriving rggsq 9r golf course doesn,t fit in the A_2, "..n"-il.,ut ,re,r"banning aII driving ranges and that doesn,t make sense a;-.;. They areconditional use, not as a pernitted use just so ";y;;;y;.;-po. on anywherethey want to, as a conditi-onal use.
conrad: Tim, you wour.d rike to see other conditions in that oEher than what-ererve got. Is that true?
Siegel: We're talking about the zoning Ordinance amendment now, not theconditional use permit right?
Dacy: yes.
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(
Planning Commission MeetingApriL 22, 1987 - page 35
Erhart: .we could put it in the zoning ordinance so we have driving rangesare permitted as 10ng as the crub house is kept to a 35-4a, we can put ihatin there if rde want and one storage shed. you courd add those as part ofthe zoning ordinance. on the other hand, r guess if arr we're arr6wing isthat the driving range it wouldn't make any economic sense to put much morethan that on it. Just .a smar] garage and imarr crubhouse. l,taybe it wouldpolice itserf. The o.ther thing r wbuld be more incrined to 9o-along with isif _we actuarly restricted it to tH s ox TH 212 but r will not vote for it ifthis can be put on TH 101 or Lyman BIvd.. I just think that,s dead lrrong.
HeadLa: What are we really voting on noer?
conrad: we're voting on an ordinance change and as stevets motion said, heis recomnending that golf driving ranlres be a conditionar use in the a-)district- werre not tarking about John's proposar now. we're talkingsimply about, is it appropri.ate to allol, diiving ranges in Chanhassenbecause right now you can't have them.
Headla: so if we were to say no, lre donrt want any of this. we do $rhat theordinance says as is. That does not prohibit anyone from coming in andgetting a conditional use?
conrad: They canrt get a conditional use because itrs prohibited right now.There is no vray to apply for a driving range right now.
Headla: It is explicitedly prohibited?
Dacy: Yes. The use is not allowed in any district.
Conrad: But rrhat werre saying in this request is, we will allow it as aconditional use but Dave, nobody can come into to$rn right noe, and buird one.John wants to buird one and he's got to have us effect the zoning ordinanceright now if he's to build anything.
Dacy: rf r can make one more comment before you take action on that motion.
On the colLector and arterial condiEion, it concerns me if you do timit itto just two highways or to an arterial because to me that construes that youcan only get access from that arterial highway. We wouldn,t r^rant to createa driveway situation off of TH 5 so the benefit of having a collector inthere, in this particular situation, is that you can have access of themajor street. AI1 the streets in the rural area are collecEors or arterials
anyeray but I think we should preserve the arterial to keep that flow throughtraffic and not aIlow addition interruption.
Erhart: What about stating within 7AO feet of TH 5 ox TH 212. Have accessfrom. ..
Dacy: You are saying more of a Location?
Erhart: Yes exactly. What you're talking about is putting a retailbusiness out in the rural area and I think the only place you wanE to do
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rPlanning Commission MeetingApril 22, 1987 - page 36
(
Dacy: Then in that case r guess r would recommend that you look at amending-number r to location near an arterial street with acces s- to a corrector orarterial. Again, it all depends on iE's location.
Erhart: rt could be a col. lector but as long as it was on TH 5 ot rH 2Lz.The access points can be on the collector.
that is on TH 5 or TH 2lZ.
is subjective because where do you draw the lines? At 5qO, L,A6gDacy: ltox | ,5Ag?
Emmings: Whatfor ingress and
if we said loca t i on
egress?
on an arterial with access to a coLlector-
that be part of the conditional use instead of the Zoning
of the conditional use will al.Iow you to look at the
Siegel: Wouldnr t
Ord i na nce ?
Dacyi Yes, the benefitindividual case.
Emmings: No. t'iy motion is going to leave that in and I,II tell you why.
Conrad: Leave !,rhat in?
Emmings: rt'1s going to leave in a condition that wilr state that it wirl belocated on an arteriar with access to a corlector for ingress.na "g.."" unJ-the reason is, if someone comes in and our ordinance.i;a.;t says they canonry look at places arong arterials, we're going to have a iot ress troubrewith those peopre than it they come in and iay,-okay r lranE it over here and-your Ordinance doesn't say I can't.
Erhart: But youtve got pioneer Trai1 andart.eriaLs.TH I01 and Lyman BIvd. are aII
Dacy:
street the motionidentified
As
as
IS
in
on the f loor now, item IArticle VI, Section 25.
is loca t i on on an arterial
Conrad: Steve, do you want to amend that?
Emm.ings: yes- Again, r think it should be l.cated on an arterial streetwith access to a collector for ingress and egress. f gu"ss vrhat we,resaying is we donrt r.rant- them just lnywhere iri the .g.i"oifJiur districr.want them on major roadways but we dtn.t want their-arivewuy co*ing ontothat major roadway. We eJant them like here, on a corner where theyrve gotaccess to a col rector so the turn can be nrade off of TH 5 .nto curfin .ia -
then get in and out on Galpin _so they aren't actuarry tui"ing off thatarterial. The.y don't- have the-ir dririeway on the u.t".iui Uul we want themlocated on major roadways rather than ju-st scattered ."Vrt".L.
We
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Planning Commission MeeEingApril 22, L987 - page 37
Siegel: No rr, where are $/e Mr. Chairman. We'vewerre in discussion stage and he wants to make
t
had a mot i onan arnendment
a second andhis mot ion?
Iandscaping
anC
to
Conrad: Tha t's
motion on your
discussion?
I
correct so I srithdraw my
change Steve just to get
original second and second yourthis going. Is there anymore
Erhart moved, Headra seconded to amend the motion to rimit the gorf drivingra-nges must be adjacent to either TH 5 0r tH 2L2 and access must be from acollector or an arteriar which leads to TH 5 or TH 2r2. Erhirt, Enmings andHeadla voted in favor and siegel and conrad opposed ttre amenarnent, and-motion carried.
Enmings moved, conrad seconded that the pranning commission recommendto amend the Zoning Ordinance to allo$, driving lang"s in the A_2district as a conditional use with the following "onaiiionsi
limited to being adjacent to TH 5 and TH 212 andfrom a co 1lec tor or an arterial which leads to TH 5
2. Hours of operation shall be from sunrise to sunset.
submission of a
The location
access must.or TH 2L2.
is
be
3
4
Provision of adequate parking areas andplan in conformance vrith Article VIII.
No site shaII be Iocated within
res i.dences .
5gg feet of singJ.e family
All voted in favor except Headla who opposed.
Headla: The reason being that r think there are far too many negativessituations that can happened as compared Eo the upside advantages. rnrespect to both the adjacent landowners and the City.
conrad: John lve'|lr bring you back on board. we,re going to open up thepublic hearing for the second stage of this whi-ch is-wheie you are Jskingfor a conditional use permit. you are asking for a golf afiving ,ung"-.---Barbara, because we have turned down a miniature gorf course und.Tor 6attingbuilding, should John continue to pursue and present his proposar in fulr?
Dacy: I think so.
Pryzmus: Basically, financially I can,t even proceed, by taking out theminiature gorf and the indoor activities, f inancialJ.y for me, it makes itimpossible. what you basically did was take away th; foundation and thewarls and you're giving me the roof so r can,t enter into a contractuaragreement vrith the City to spend g300,0gg.Og to basically make a beautifuldriving range. r arready have the driving range sprinkrer systems alreadyin- The tee area is already built. the greens are arready done. Thesandtrap is there. The classified parking lot that we originalry was agreed
upon f ive years ago is in anc r need to do some m in imal grad ing to open itup. So when you mentioned that the miniature golf, thi; is a sportscomprex. Not just a temporary use driving range. The miniature golf as you-see on r-494 on the strip where it's alr concrete and also in Excersior -
where they have aII rock, now on my developmental plan $re are usingapproximately, r haven't walked and measured it ar1 off, but for tie batting-cages and the miniature golf, werre using with parking somewhere around 6acres. 5 to 5 acres in acommercially zoned area would make it financiallyimpossibre, especialry when you build a buirding that,s going to conformwith all the buildings in the industriar park. But getting 6ack to what is -going to be nice for the community, as Roger said, i1 is part of the gatewayfrom the west. With the landscape architecture plans that we have submitteEand this wilr all be done through the city, we wilr be adding anywhere from -4 to 8 foot berms throughout the miniature golf. They witl -be rn'aintained bya neighbor out there. r have a furr time mlnager trirea to r"rn it. A furrtime grounds keeper. He wirr be there 5 days i week, or 3 or whatever ittakes. The trees, we will basicalry have up righting on alr the berms withthe shurbs- There are, even though it hasn't been maintai.ned as anarboretum right now,. most arl the trees are planted. There wirl be anotheradditional 100 some irees pranted. r appreciate your voting to arrowdriving ranges but r don't know what you want me to sign in a contractualagreement to do what when r canrt have basically tr.ro-thirds of what mproposing. The buildi.ng itself and where it,s ;ituated, this plan was drawn_up before we decided where the on-site septic system wourd go and with theadditionar setbacks, the building can be set back L6a feeL. with the bankbeing taken dovrn L0 feet and the berm coming up 4 feet so this buirdingwou-ld absolutely, that,s 14 feet in itserf ind- the buirding i.s only 15 feet -hiqh. No it goes from 14 feet to I5.8 basically with a flit roof. Thebuilding would be arr cedar on the outside. The roof is metal but when rinsulate it, it wourd be like a compco roof. There is a neighbor that lives-south on TH 101 that is getti ng a pr ice together for me no, io the buildingwould not be a tin shed. rn this area theie is permitted use. rn fact, rhave to get f inanc i ng on the bu i rd inq so r wourd have to come to the city to _get a buirding permit to build a conCractor,s yard, a nursery, a hog fari orwhatever. rrm going to have to do something wlth the property and thebuirdi.ng is alr_eady there so r do have to d6 sometrring with ii and r justfelt tirat for the community and the neighbors, with ait the randscaping. rt -used to be a tree farm so there are already 300 some trees, r think -ttre two,the miniature golf and the driving rang" ur. just a naturar. people aregoing to come out. If you have any children, -how many people say, what cdo _we do mommy or what can we do? There's nothing to alo in chanhaJsen. thafjsthe biggest thing ever since Irve been here for 13 years, therers nothing 10do in this town. Here we have no booze. we have ulsically no noise. colfballs donrt make any noise. We have no dust problem. We really have noproblems other than something that should be nice for the community. Thecost of the building in the central business district, I just sold-a pieceof land that this would basicaLly be the onry place in chJnhassen that itcould go right now and that rand with the builainq that it would take, wourdcost a couple milrion dol-lars. Einancially you c6uld never do th.i p;"j;;i-here so the citizens of chanhassen wonrt nive tiris project. rtre rociti6n-out there, being that it is on a major highway. rt is not conducive to
{Planning Commission Meet i ngApril 22;1987 - page 38
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Planning Commission Meet ingApxil 22, 1987 - page 39
estate homes. When you have 2A,qqg cars driving by every day, everyoneknows what the land, r paid g4.,aoa.ao per acre ior-5 yeais ago when the randwas going for a Lot more because peopre arenrt buying it for farmland. rdid buy it on a contiogency that i courd have the-driving .ingu =o by notbeing abre to show you what...werre using pictures and dimensions fromcourses in california and Erorida and r wint this to be the nicest and $rel1thought out mi.niature gorf course. rf you've ever played mini-putt ou". inMinnetonka, we measured that out and wanted to at rlasi have the trees andshurbs and greenery th.al they have. we aren't proposing any erephants orducks or. geese or anything that's going to look -bad. r -want it io be fun.werre going to do a lot of underground things with pvc. Littre kids rikevrhen. the balr disappears and then it comes up. The mini-putt, to get backto hrhat mini-putt and maxi-putt is, a mini-pritt for kids inywhere from 4 or5 years ord up to 9 or r0. you take them to a rear tought i'ini"tor. goifcours-e and they get very. discouraged. Everybody likes lo do good so itwould be a real interesting little course uut tlieir balr alwais winds up ina good spot so they can score good but it wonrt be interesting enough foryour 11, L2, 13 and your adults so the maxi-putt wourd be that. t'm tryingto get something for the whore faniry. The batting cages, r don,t know ifany of you have ever had chirdren in Little League uut ttre worse thing thatcan happen is when your rittle guy strikes out twice in a row and he comesback crying. when r was in the Jaycees we bought one batting machine forthe cAA but there just isn't enough time for arr the rittre lias to use thatone batting machine. The building itserf wourd be basicarry not seen fromthe highway. Riqht now, in a farm zoned area, you can buirt basicarlywhatever you want for a hog farm, dairy fa rm, whatever. r $rant to have alot.nicer building than that.- rt's going to be totalry screened but bytaking away, ri.ke r say, the foundation. r appreciate your motion to ilro*the driving range.
Dacy: Given their action, the next item on the agenda is literarly aconditional use permit for a driving range. you have a couple of -options.
You can withdraw that application right now so they would not "u..y ouE thereview of the driving range and the matter would just go on to council todetermine the ordinance amendment but if they do arlow the driving range andeverything erse, it wirl have to come back and go through the pran ."rri"w.so, do you want. them to carry out Ehe review jusE for the driving range orare you withdrawing your application at this point?
Pryzmus: r want the driving range but what r'|m saying is r can't reallyenter into any contracts if I only have the driving range. r appreciatlyour motion for the driving range.
conrad: John, r think there was some sensitivity to the miniature golfhere. rt wasntt voted that way but there was discussion. city couricir mayentertain that thought. I don,t know just because we voted one way. Ithink they wirr be consistent in some of the things that werre suylng. rthink some philosophical things will carry out based on what. we,re sayingbut rrm sure that miniature gorf is totalLy out but r don,t know if y6u iantto carry it forth. It,s really up to you.
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(
Planning Commission MeetingApriL 22, 1987 - yage 40
Pryzmus: I rrant to carry it forward.
Dacy: What t'e could do is, this is going to the Council on Uay 4th, youcould come back to the pranning conruission on May r3th for permit review ifit's approved. I know you have some timing restrictions.
Pryzmus: That is to enter into another agreement so they have the site planand other additional uses. Okay.
Dacy: I would have to come back and you probably t ouldnrt get approvalbefore June lst. It irould be more tine if they donit reviei it.--
Pryzmus: But they canrt revies it if you are going to reave the motionstanding just for driving range. Let,a just t;ke the driving range and rrrlhave to spend another month. r donrt kn-ow rhat else to do bLcausi you'vemade the motion and thatrs your feelings so r donrt have an option.
Conrad: Well, you probably do. I guess Barb is just giving you someadvice. What did you tiro decide?
?u9yi I think you are asking us to go ahead and review just the golfdriving range.
Siegel: Iou stitl irant it to go before Council in total?
Pryznus: r lrant it to go before councir in total because if r donrt...
Dacy: okay, then the conditional use permit and the wetland ArEerationPermit, they will make a motion to tabre that pending council finar actionon Ehe Ordinance amendment.
Pryzmus: Letts do the wetland. we can do the rdetlands now because thatrspart of the driving range. That has nothing to do with the miniature golf.
Dacy: So you are saying to go ahead with the driving range?
Pryzmus: Yes.
Conrad: Okay, this is a public hearing. Any comments?
siegel moved, Erhart seconded to crose public hearing. All voted in favorand motion carr ied.
Emmings: one thing that r notice that there is in the randscaping it saysexisting ash, 2 to 2 L/2 inches in diameter and points to that *troie ronirow of trees. When J drove by there tonight, I didnrt see any trees at ill.
Dacy: There are trees out there. There are a number of Erees out there asJohn has mentioned. They are small.
Emmings: 2 L/2 Loches in diameter?
(
(
Planning Commission Meet ingApriL 22 1 1987 - page 4I
{
Dacy: Some are but not a1I.
it go across the whole property the way it.s portrayed on
may be dead. A lot of them
Emmings:
this?And does
Dacy: Itrs along TH 5, yes. Som e, I thinkilidn't have leaves on them as of yesterday.
Emmings: put in a condition that they have to be tiving trees?
Dacy: I realize that. I was just saying that I wanted tothe Commission was comfortable with that.
Dacy: They are identifying existing conditions. The specific thing thatthe commission shourd address is the appropriateness of trr. ligr,ting and thefencing proposars. Those are some of [tre itrings that Staff ri,ia oi-riugguJ-ogt. with just the driving range, there was a talrer lighting standard inthe southwest corner. your previous motion was for the 5peration of thedriving range from sunrise to sunset so in my mina trrai iijtrti"q scheme-falls out and you need to address that one way or the othel.
Headla: what coes he reed the lighting for? rf you don't give him lights,that kind of insures that it doesnrt go past sunset.
Enmings: Is therelights?
make sure that
any reason they have the tights? That you t"rould r.rant the
Pryzmus: As you knoer, there is a group home west of me. I,m not sayinganything bad about group homes but the contractor,s yard, the resideits-overhere, everyone in the .farm community has security rights and a person courdget in and raise all kinds of heck r.rith the putti;9 gieen or whitever and ifeel that I neeC sorne securi.ty maintenance out there-. IrIith the putti;;green being in the southwest corner, that will qive me the securiiy oowithere. r also had security on the front of the indoor activity uuiraing rutI wouldnr t propose any more lighting than the average farm has.
Emmings: How tall is that light? How high above the ground is that righti tsel f?
Pryzmus: I donrt know NSP puts in.wha t
ofEmmings: It I s just one those standard I ights?
Pryzmus: rtrs a standard right that would be on a farm- The other thing,guess r cut it short $rhen the pubric hearing was closed but as far as th6fencing, there wirl be the fencing around the perimeter of it wirl be thesame as Prince's fencing down the street. It r^rill be the black fencing anathe fenc i ng on the vres t and across the north border will be the fencinithatrs out there- rt is a silver fence but it will arr be o feet hi!h'.There wonrt be any need to protect any roads or anything. The drivirig witlbe hitting to the north.
I
(
Planning Commission Meet i ngApxil 22, 1987 - page 42
{
Pryzmus:feet and
would be
In back of the tee areathen they are diagonallyin the tree area.
there is a path. I put
across from one another
trees every 30
and the J. ights
Dacy: Butthere for
Headla:
Pryzmus:
Headla:
Pryzmus:
rrould be
again, if they condition from sunrise to sunset and they are notsecurity reasons.
Where would that 6 foot be?
Ehe
fence
A 6 foot fence would surround whole property.
Everytime you drive by TH 5 you see a big black fence.
Yes, it would be about the sane as the arboretum fence only itblack. It would be the same as prince,s fence down half u iif".
Headla: Have you people seen that fence? co take a look at it-
Pryzmus: If you don't like black fence,. I don't have to put it. I thoughtmaybe you would like it because it was the same as princeis.
conrad: rn trying to understand staff's anarysis of the hretland. rn Garyrsreport, are those conditions bundred in to the staff recommend at i ons ?
Dacy: Yes -
conrad: And Gary, basically you have a lot of concerns with the area from awetlands standpoint and some other things. were your conditions as s;t;;,-were Ehey $rorded so that if we decided to allow fitling in the wetlands,these things have to be done? r didn't see a statement that said that. r
Ermings: Barbara, I see one light. Are there more?
Dacy: Yes, the right in the southirest corner is the only one that you hadshorrn on the pran outside of the putting area. The rniniiture gorf ioor="lights but if the miniature golf course is not there, then thoie lights farlout. Other than those, that was the only light, correct?
Pryzmus: We have lighting on the path unalerneath the trees.
Dacy: Bor the tee area.
Pryzmus: This is a path in back of the tee area.
Dacy: Your re saying these are Ig feet in heiqht?
Pryzmus: Yes, those are r0 feet in height. They would be a down right. rtwas to light the path but if we're not going to be open...
Dacy: Along the tee.area they are proposing a series of 10 foot lightsthere .
(
Planning Conmission Meet.ingApriL 22, 1987 - page 43
saw Rockwerlrs comments saying that the wetlands shouLdn't be filled in.That there are some senstive areas and whatever. How do r interpret yourcomments at the end on the attachment?
warren: r admit it got a littre confusing as ere got into it. rn trying tointerpret our wetrands ordinance, that rras part oC the thrust that r wairesponding to some of the deficiencies thaC the submittal has in relation tothe wetrands ordinance. r guess the final bottom line of my conments vrouldbe that if you go ahead that the recommendations that r havL shown should beenforced as far as sedimentation basin and then some of these things. rguess in general that's where I was coming from.
conrad: rn brief, r'm not sure that rrve seen a hardship or a real reasonto allow the filling in of the wetlands. r would have Jtough time goingalong wittr. r don't think the measures pointed out are necessary. r prEeerto keep the wetlands operating. It appears from Rockwellrs comments, Iwasn't sure about the trade-offs that she was mentioning. r was having atough time interpretting that.
Dacy: When $re went out to inspect the site, as you know, the area has beencultivated. what she came back and said was that it's not good for habitatPUrposes. However, it is performing some type of functioo for storm waterrun-off to Bluff Creek. Al1 that's out there now are the regrasses and soon. It is not Prot.ected by the DNR because of their particular restrictionson vegetation and so on. What she said was that they have Iooked at thesituation where, as in the Centex case, if you alter one part of lhewetLand, if you improve another part of it, they vrill accept that. In thiscase, the applicant has no access to other property. He doesntt own anyother property that contains additional vretlands area. He would have togain that easement right over to do that. If you deny the vretlandsalteration perm i t, you would in ef fect d eny use of the property as a drivingrange.
Conrad: There are tvro issues here. As a conditional use permit for thegorf driving range. There is also a wetlands alteration permit that we haveto respond to also. As I said, based on the Ordinance for the wetlandsalteration permit, we haventt solved Ehe problem. There hasnrt been atrade. Itrs almost impossible to solve the problem with the wetland andtherefore, I guess I $rould have a tough time. f donrt see how he canmaintain the ordinance and the intent of the ordinance with the currentproposal. Is there a motion?
Siegel: Barbara, don't your recommendations make the wetlands permitapplicable to the eretland ordinance?
Dacy: Yes. Thatrs true. Hovrever, because we are unsure about what rrrould
happen to the ordinance amendment in the first case, we really didn'tspecify a motion as 9re do in oLher cases but Gary correct me, yourconditions are directed toward gaining additional information and
recommending a permit sedimentation basin there if aLteration was allowed.
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Commission Meet ing
1987 - page 44
(
PlanningApril 22,
warren: Right.
sieger: And some of Gary's recommendations were contingent on the totalproject. Not just the golf driving range right?
Warren: My recommendations are based on the total project.
Siegel: You had something about run-off from the building.
Warren: That's correcE.
sieger: rn lieu of that, does that make any change in your recommendationsset by S ta ff?
Dacy: As far as the drainage issue, it eliminates additional harea, that carcuration from the drainage but r think the overa:.plan and so on still remains intact. aff of these conditions capplied for a recommendation of approval except for number I.some type of preference for the lightiog scheire and you stroufaidentify the hours of operation if -you ire going to iecommend a
ard roo fI drainageould beIf you have
proba b I y
pproval.
Siegel: I thought we already did that with the previous motion?
Dacy: Yes, you did but I guess I r.rould prefer that you clarify it in thisapplication.
Emmings: rf someone were to vote to deny the wetland alteraLion permitwould it make the conditional use permit moot?
Dacy: Yes.
Emmings moved, Erhart seconded that the Planning commission recommend deniarof the application for the wetland Arteration plrmit. Arl voted in favorexcept siegel and motion carried.
Siegel: -I thought I was assured that Staff would ensure with theirrecomnendations to satisfy the alteration permit.
conrad: you can minimize the impact oo the wetrand but the ordinance says.
Siegel: fn essence, we are denying the property owner any use of his land.
Conrad: No. For a golf driving range because he apparently needs moreproperty.
siegel: r fail to see the effecE of a gorf driving range on a piece of bareland to me is less impact on it than ani other type of rlse.
Emmings: He has to f irr. in the wetrands to use it as a gorf driving range.
(:
Planning Commission MeetingApxi]- 22, 1987 - page 45
Siegel: I stiII disagree. I think Staff came up withthe applicant could adhere to and meet the use of the
Pryzmus: That piece of land has been farmed for Lgg years. It $rashomesteaded and rast year with the wettest year we ever had, it r,ras downtwice-.in the spring and in the fall. ?here has never been any $raterstanding there and so, r.rhen you reach your ordinance about what is a class AwetLand or what is a protected wetland, it's anything that is going to haveany water if there is a 100 year rain. aasicarl-y, mo!t of your-comirunitiesare built to crass A r,retrands according to that ordinance !o I don,t wantyou to get real carried away rdith thinking that Itm filling in a lake. Itrsa piece of farmland. It's low and it,s advantageous to me to put in acouple feet of f il,1 so my ba).Ipicker, rrhen it,s raining, eronrt squeeze theballs into the ground. There isntt going to be any chinge. theie isn,tgoing to be any buildings close to the creek. the water wirr still frowvery smoothly. It's going to be nothing but mowed grass and so I thinksometimes yourre getting a little carried away with r,rhat m doing in there.The wetlands seems to throw the trigger so address Ehat. It is a farm. Italways has been a farm. There are no cattails. There has never beenstarding water there ever. I drove through there Ehe other day with mypick-up. Now, itrs been a dry spring. Last spring it was the wettestspring werve had for years so it's not wetlands so I wanE people to realizethat.
recommendations thatland for his gurpose.
WETLAND ALTERATION PERMIT TO INSTALL THE LAKE ANN INTERCEPTOR AND LAKEvrncrlrre ronEEEarN-rN AND l,rEeT-dfEs s A-AND-CLASSE wETiANDS ALoNC rHE-
ALIGNMENT RUNNING SOUTHEASTERLY FROM TH 4I TO TH 5 THROUGH CHANHASSEN LAKES
BUSINESS PARK, NORTH OF LAKE SUSAN AND INTO EDEN P RAIRIE, METROPOLITAN WASTE
CONT ROL COMMISS ION-APPLICANT.
Leander Kerber I520 Arboretum BIvd.
Barbara Dacy presented the staff report on this item.
Leander Kerber: I have concern with it because it's going to go rightacross the south end of my property on TH 5. I have the property betr.reenthe City park and the nursery. My question is, as long as it,s ziq-zaggingaround, why don't they cross the highway down the road 500 feet to 1,009feet and stay off of my property. Another question is, am I going to beassessed for that nohr or when arn I supposed to pay for it or am I going tohave to pay? If so, why?
Dacy: The interceptor at this time is not proposed to be assessed duringthis year and in 1987. The Metropolitan Council will not aIlow us or allowproperty owners in that owner to hook up into that interceptor until afterthe year zqgg so there are no assessments at this time.
Publ ic Presen t :
et
Noziska moved, seconded by Conrad,Conditj.onal Use permit changes as3.01, and 5.01 as follows:
to recommend approval ofproposed in Section I.02 ,
1.02 - Adds the word develooment in recognition
Mas ter Plan replaces EEE-p-re-vious concepi planclear.Ly facility development ob jectives-.
1-03.- the l-anguage has been changed to refer this section of thepermit to the adopted Masler plan]
3.01 - this section is to be amended to include the new designcapacities setforth in the new Master plan.
5.01 - this section is amended to reference that the parks andrecreation-open space element of the Carver County CoiprehensivePIan includes a committement by the County that. ii is theirresponsibi'lity to provide. regionar parks 6f rretropoii tin -signi f i -cance which are to serve the county population "nh t""ia""ci otthe region as well.
The following voted in favor: partridge, J. Thompson, !,1.Thompson, Noziska, Conrad. watson - oiposed. tutoiion carried.
watson explained that she voted against. the motion because theregional park is located in an uniewered area and should not haveany form of development in that-area, arso she fert that the citydoes not have the police porrer to waich 450 gr""l-""^f.ir.-'-
Planning Commission MinutesAugust L2, L982
Page 7
Present
the
1.03,
that the new
and specifys more
Subdivision Variance and Zoninq Ordinance AnendmentGaloinLake Road, Public Hearin g, .E'rank S tefonic:
ohn Pryzmus , 7476 Saratoga Drive
John & Diane Hennessy, 7305 calpinDean Eilen, 6142 Ridgewood DriviPatricia Walberg, St. Bon i faci usErank Stefonoc, MoundJim Lito
B1vd.
4.9
Request, 7300
Partridge opened the public hearing at' l0:30 p..m.
Waibel explained to the planning Commission that the applicant isrequesEing to subdivide an 18 aire parcel in the """""!i"a-".."?!-!1. City, and requesting a zonin| o.air,.n." "^"na..nl-[o'rocaEe a clrrving range in a residenE.ial district
waibel exprained that this is a variance request from ordinance45 and is different from other such i"qu."t= because the aoori-cant is not requesting any building p".*ii".
&
(,
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Planning Commission ltinutes
August L2, L982
Page 8
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llaibel explained tshat the request for a driving range in aaAgricultural/ResidentiaI district woutil requir6 an imendment tothe zoning ordinance. He further explained that gorf courses arepermitted uses in an agricultural district and thit drivingranges are very similar in use. He also stated that the afpIi_cant is requesting to construct a miniature golf course.
An adjacent property owner statsed that they could nottheir property and were wondering how the -applicanfs
ab1e. to do so. They also expressed concern regardingsection becoming d.angerous with more traffic.
watson asked if the applicants could subdivide if theresewer. Partridge stated that the intent of Ordinance 45preserve agricultural property. J. Thompson asked $rhatapplicant is going to do without buildings and what typesystem they are proposing.
Pryzmus stated that they are planning on using satillite systemsfor the sewer, and. are planning on digging a weII.
subd ivide
woulil bethe inter -
is
is
the
of
no
to
Se',\rer
The adjacent property osner stated that everyone in the areawants to subdivide their property, but cannot because ofOrdinance 45.
watson made a mction, seconiled by Noziska, to closehearing. A11 voted in favor and--the motion carried.the public
Watson moved, seconded by JCouncil to deny the requestthe amendment to the zoningResidential bistrict basedshall be no subdivision on
and the moti.on carried.
. Thompson, to recornmend to the Cityfor subdivision approval and to denyordinance in an R-IA, Agricultural-on Ordinance 45 which states there
unsewered 1and.. AII voted in favor
Street Vacation Request,Lot 4, Block 1, and Lot 4, Block 2Moline Addition:
P resen t :Don Ke1ly, 2081 west 65th Street.
Richard Atherton, 2082 i{est 65th S treet
Waibel presented the staff report to the planning Commission.st.ated that the applicants are requesting to vacate a portion
t.he right-of-way of West 65th Street.
with the
eas emen t'
He
of
con -
along
StreetWest 55 this fi led .
WaibeI explained thaE staff recommends approvaldition thac the appJ-icanLs dedicace a ped-strianthe watermain, and t.ha! tshe right-of-way for thecul-de-sac be dedicated when Che street vacation
q.$:
art
,00.. I rru,i Crrn.i I ltleeting Oc
{
6ounci lman Neveaux moved to approve the September 7, .l9g2,
as amended. Motion seconded by Counci'l woman Swenson. Th;in favor: Mayor Hami l ton, Counci lwoman Swenson, Councl imenIorn. Counci lman Geving abs ta i ned . Mot i on cariied.
c o u n c i I m a n.. G e v i n g moved to approve the september 20, 19g2, councir6inutes. lrlotion seconded by Counci lman Hbrn. The fol fowinq voted infavor: Mayor Hami lton, counci rv,,oman swenson, counci iren tterear*, Geving,and Horn. No negative votes. Motion carried
councilman Neveaux moved to note.the september zz, lggz, public Safety.Iiaison commission minutes. Motion seconded uv c 6 u n i i i,i a n
-
o e v i n 9 . Thefollowing voted in favor: Mayor Hamilton, councirwoman iwenror,counci lmen Neveaux, Geving, and Horn. No negat i ve vo te s. -Mot
i on carried.
-3-
Counci I mi nutesfol I owi ng voted
Neveaux and
ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT ALLOl., DR IVING RANGES/M INIATURE GOLF COURSESN ri-l RI
are a res i dent s were prese
reconsider their action o
amend the Zoning 0rdinancDistrict go'l f driving ranpetitions we re preseited,
supporting the request.
proposa l. Di ck Lyman andEill Soth, Dan j and John
Schmi dt, Mary l,lelter, Jer
Counci I man Neveaux
ran te anoc, pet t oners an severale petitioners requested that the Counci It 23, I982, in which the Coun cil acted tolow as a conditional use in a n R-lAnot miniature golf courses. Twoopposi tion to the request and onezynus gave a bri ef presentati on of theVolkspoke in favor of the proposal
Bob Larsen, Roger Hennes sy, Rogerafs0nand Leo Wel ter s poke in opposition.
: John rzym u s r
n t. Thf Auguse to al
ges but
one i n
John Pr
Herle
Hennessry Gust
0bviously there are two pojnts of view and dependingon which side of the table or wh.i ch side of tire issieyou si t at both of them are ri ght and that's whatma kes these decisions up here iery djfficult. ihat,s!!{.n. have. zoning ordinances. T-hat,s why within theordlnances themse lves there are opportuniiies to
T:9if{ and chanse them. Because i t wai adopted i ntttt ooes not mean that that stamps it pajd in fulln0 changes ever al l owed, that we have abiol ute.lyI ooked at every possible sj tuation-irO-Lr..y possibleland use that will ever occur. If we did y6u'wouta -
have to el ect one City Counci f ana inen ad6pt anord i nance and then 9et ria of them O.iirr" you don,tneed.them any more.- I,lhat f-a, t.viii-io get at isI thi nk the issue here is t anO ,r".. 'W"'should
attempt to d i vorce oursel ves from it e
-pe.ron..l itiesinvolved.. I real ly f eeLncomro.tiL'i.'*i tt tt.r.I:li9:^yl9l you.set neishbor asainst neishbor,Dustnessman against private ciiizen, farmer versusthe non-farmers, polarize the whoie'corimunity. It,sextreme'l y unfortunate. Something if,ii i orr,t thinkreal ly in our hearts none of us iant. i tt jnk weneed to look at this as somewhere down ihe Iinethere has 9!! to be a compatible use io" tt.tproperty. If it were to be R_lA, which js what iti s,. then it,s agricultural .eslJ6nie, -yo, ..n,t put abuilding on it because we have Ordininie 45 and vjewan t to control building so the I anO siis f al.l ow.It probably is too smali to Ue an agricutturatiyeconomjc piece of property as agricittuiat, io itrat
,.:
**
ir
{If
a.*tt,
*
-.5.
tIk
**llt
I
l 4b-
Counci I Meeting 0ctober
(u
1982
do you do,
some kind
My opinionthat I thi
Counc'i l man Gevi ng
-4-
t let it sit and the weeds grow and
nterim use, I thi nk, is appropri atg.not changed from several weeks ago
he use on that property would be
(
jus
of i
has
nk t
compatible with everybody concerned and that would Ibe the driving ran9e. I still bel i eve the miniature Igoif is an intensification beyond the quasi -
igri cu I tural usage that the driving range would
gi ve to it. My position has not changed. I bel ieve
that a driving range could be adequately handled sothat it would be a compl iment to the area and would
be not that d i fferent from the approved agricultural
uses. I personally do not believe that vie cou 1d go
any further, I could go any further, as far as
commerci al i zati on.
councilman Horn - My view has not changed strictly from a point of Iand
use. I think as was pointed out, commerci a'l area
is justified for the use that was outl i ned and for th i ngl
1i ka driving ranges ' golf courses which take a I arge
amount of lind, iequiie that in an area that is zoned
I ess costly that a commerci al area.
Councilwoman Swenson'- I gueis in essence I guess I tend to agree with
Counci lman Neveaux and Counci lman Horn. I have
other concerns, however, about the mini ature go'l f
and that' s a matter of sanitation. I am concerne0
about, wi thout wa te r, how this can be handled and
since this is in an R-l A area I am assumi ng othe:'
appiications would be sjmilarly without sewer.
- I think I realize that if I were to own that piece oi rproperty that to do somethi ng other than pay taxes
to get something back out of the I and would concern
,e is a property owner. I think that that property'
much of which js unsewered, is in a transition stage
and that some day somethi ng wi 1l devel op there ei ther
i n an i ndustri al manner or at some poj nt we mi ght
cons ider runni ng a pi pe out from Chanhassen all the
way to 41, who knows. At the present time I
peisonal ti oon't see anyth ing wrong wi th the golf
driving ringe. I have conducted my ovrn private survey
of aboit 20 peop I e in Chanhassen. I guess the vote
was something like l8 to two'very much in favor ot
in" g.t i Otiring range but about evenly split l0 and
l0 oiposea to tIe miniature go1f. -My. own personal
view'is that I would be in favor of the driving range
oniv r.o. i sanitary sewer standpoint and what to do
wi ti *ater, satell jles and I gues s eventual ly, what
could happen to another Councj I if this shou 1d 9o
in.I think for the benef i t of al1 of you fol ks who may not
n.r. tua in opportunity to read oui ordinance and what ,the R-tA Agri cu I tural Res i dence District' the -
purpose :is, I woutd tite to read it to you. "The R-lA IAoiicultural Res'i dence District is'i ntended to provtoe a Idistrj ct which will allow extens ive areas of the vi'l lage
to be retai ned in a I ower popu I ati on density in advance-
of the need for these I ands for extensi ve urban purposes-
and to prevent the occurance of premature scattered urDdI
i,layor Hami l ton
and
a te.
ago
luld
iature
I
i e ved so
ould
tural
dgo
rnd
things
ed
h
o'l f
rned
rnd
ler
of
n
v,
ge
her
'vey
Counci l Meeting 0ctc(.,,r 4,t 982
V E PLAN ATIE NDMENT AND REZON
development.', The purpose of the ondinance, I think, wanot to keep the Iands.from.oevetoping. " rt nui ;; tr;ip"-us devel op in a wel l organ I zeo miinei over a period ofyears . I think interesiingly enough, if f ,.ie i-- -'
resident out there and somEone *e.d io'come in who ownedthat Iand. and proposed to instalt ; iig'farm on thatc0rner, they would not have to com" io'thjs Councii-fora permit and you would have that acrois the street fromIou.. .That,s a permitted use. I ig."e, also that theland is probably one of the Uest i6ciiions in the Cityfor this type of use,for a a.ivini-.ini..ro possibtyfof u lili putt. I 9o have a p.odt"r,'iowever, wi th theintensification as the otner Couniii',ir.ru.., have said.I real'ly would not care to see lightino out there and Iguess to.ny way of thinking if yg; do;it nave iigt,ti- -
you don't survive in that iyp.6i-Uriiness uut that,snot my decision to make.. I-wouia ,"i'*int to have anykind of electricitv e1 that pje.e oi-p.ip..ty. twoutdn't want frool itshIi-oIi-ii"l".''irrat woutd
iil'iiiJ{l:lt ",.tilt:,;n3r I lii;i6J:.liili;;;i.t.lt
:f9 t9. Ehe property is for a driving range and it wouldfit nicely on that property and mint"puit, aftnouin"iiil9 gooa idea, perhaps ri ght- now is not'ine tjme to dothat.
i -5-
s
councilman Gevino moved to deny the request for an amendment to 0rdinance47-AD to ar Iow min i ature gor f as . -.oii iti on a l use in the R-rA District.I:li:1,:::rnded by Counciir.n n"r..Ji.-'rr,. followins voted in favor:Louncr Iwoman Swenson, Counci lmen Neveaux, Geving; ";i i;;;: MayorHami lton voted no. Motion .ur.i.il''--^
Counci lman Neveaux moved the adoption6.04 of 0rd i nance 47 at points 4'anjHorn. The following vo ted in favor:5r,,enson, Counc.i 'l men Neveaux, Geving,carried.
_of 0rdinance 47-AD amending Section.l0. Motion seconded by Couicii;;;-i,layor Hami I ton, Counci lwomanand Ho rn. No negati ve votes. Motion
COMPREHENSI
AL ,\VD. Me r e Vo k an
ING FROM R-IA TO INDUSTRIAL 847 0AI M c ael s w ere presen ae I sMr. M c
d
suggested thata conditional uwhere it prov i dvrithin a fullycould be includboth the agricupurposes, one tord i nances andpossibi I i ty of
0rd i nance 47, Secti on 6.04 be amended which w ould encom passse permi tted under the I-l zoning, namel y 12.04 ,sub.3,es that contractor,s yard s, when conduct ed entire 1yenc losed st ructures or wi thin a comp'l etel y fenced areaed in the R-lA area. Tha t vrou'l d take int o considerati on'l tural use and the contra ctor's use. It would solve tw
9e
0
hat Mr. Vol k would not be 'to lat'i on of any of the
otn vtwo i t gi ves everyone some t i me to think about thechanging the entire area to a n industria'l zoning.
a
s
an
counci I members discussed exq?!ging- the definition of a contractor'syard to be incl uded as a conbitioni.l uie in an R_lA District. Standardsdi scussed r{e re : percentage of ti iiiure-icres, minimum n umbi i of acres,screenins of bui tdines, ioad crassiiiiali"r,,o".r;;;'; ;;ii; enclosedstructure, and builaing setuait<.--iornIirr", norn aiiea-i;; ; surveyll '!:r" existing kindi of businesses io that the counci r wourd knownow many would be i nc luded in the definition anJ -to;-;;;y *JrrO U.exc I uded.
I
r
Menbers Present:
Members Absent:
Staff Present:
The meeting was ca11ed
{
I - t.APPROVED ON
i,add Conrad, BiIl Swearengin, Mike Thompson, JimThompson, and Carol Watson.
Howaral Noziska
Bob Waibel and Becky Foreman
Conditional Use Permit
to order by Chairman
for Establishment of
Lacld Conrad at
a colf Drivins
7:30 p.m.
Range,7300Gal-Din Road FranK Stefonac , pub l-i c i{ear ing :
Present:Frank Stefanoc, Mound
John B. Przymus, 7476 Saratoga Drive
Leo Welter, Eden Prairie
Dean P. Ei1er, ltound
Mary Welter, ChanhassenBernie Schmidt, Shakopee
John and Dani Hennessy, 7305 Galpin Blvd.
Conrad. called the public hearing to order at 7:35 p.m. Waibel pre-sented the staff report to the Planning Commission and explainedthat the applicant is requesting a conditional use permit for a golfdriving range with 45 tees and 38 parking spaces to be located ai thenorthwest corner of the intersection of Galpin Road and Highway 5.Waibel said that the property is I8.1 acres in size, and that it ispresently zoned R-IA, Agricultural Residence.
Waibel explained that the appficant has indicated that he intends togroom the wetland area in order that mechanized. ball pick up may beused. waibel further explained that the grooming would coniist- ofcutting down wetland vegetation and seeding with grasses similar tothat which will be planted on the rest of the site. Waibe1 reada letter from Mr. David Leuthe, l"linnesota Departjnent of NaturalResources, dated October 25, 1982. Iv1r. Leuthe indicated in the 1etterthat the wetland on the property has not been identified as a pro-tected wetlanci of the state, that Bluff Creek is a protected water-course of the state on the northern boundary, and that any work whichwould change the course, current, or cross-section of Bluff Creekwoul-d require a permit from the DNR.
Waibel- said the applicant has indicat.ed that they intend to havelighting instal-led for night operation. Waibel suggested that thelighting should only be used for grounds protection and. not for
night time operation. Stefonac stated that the lighting lrri1l be
,t.-44(
MII.IUTES OF THE REGUI,AR CHAIiHASSEN
FLANNING COM,UISSION MEETING
HELD OCTOBER 28, 1982 AT 7:30 P.M.
COUNCIL CHfuUBERS, 690 COULTER DRIVE
CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA
(
Conrad explained to the public that the City Council has amended
/ the zoning ordinance to provide for golf driving ranges in an\ agricultural residence district.
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(Planning Commj. s s ion Minutes
October 28, 1982
Page 2
stefonac stated that the lightinq witl be shielded from the neighborsand the road,s. Hennessey, an adjoining neighbor, expressed his-con-cern regarding the proposed lighting. Hennessey indicated that he haddone some checking on other driving ranges in the area, and that theydo not operate past sunset. frennessey stated that he is not in favoiof this request, he feels that the City wiII be setting a precedentfor other commercial developments. pryzmus stated ttra! ttrl righti.ngrvirl onry be around the tee area and that the rights wirr be strietaeafrom lhe road by willow trees.
!1. Thompson asked how many tees the applicant is planning on puttingin. waibel said that accoriling to the standards iet up iot ai i.ri.rg -
ranges, 45-50 tees are acceptable for this size lot.
M. Thompson asked what the proposed hours of operation woulal be.waibel said that the present chanhassen oriving Range operateo fromsunrise to sunseti the appricant is proposing Lo operati,untir r0 p.m.
M- Thompson asked how large the proposed utility shed will be.Waibel said that the utility shed will be a doml shape approxima-tely 12 feet high and be located 50 feet from the rold. '-
l,l..Thompson asked ho$, large the trees being proposed wil1 be.waibeL said that the applicant indicated that tire trees wilr be3-5 inches in diameter in the northeast corner of the propertsy.Pryzmus said that the apprication indicates that he wai pi.rrni.rgto plant trees to screen the Hennessey,s home, but now hi doesnot feel that their home will be affected by the driving range.
M. Thompson asked about parking. Waibel said that the applicantwill have to receive an access permit from the County. wiiU.fexplained that the county will recommend. where the aicess shouldbe located for best sight and stacking distance. pryzmus saidthat they are planning on 38 parking spaces.
M- Thompson asked the applicant if they are planni.ng on using saterri-tes for sanitary facirities. waiber indicated that satellites areshown on the plan.
M- Thompson asked if_ they-are planning on having vending machines onthe property- waiber said that vending machi,-rei are noi shown on theplan .
Watson asked how many parking spaces the present Chanhassen DrivingRange has - pryzmus indicated that it has- 15 parking spaces and thitmaximum-cars they have ever had at one time was seven. M. Thompsonasked if the chanhassen Driving Range \.ras successful. pryzmus indi-cated that financialry, the driving range was not successiul, but theyhad Limited space and could not expand. -
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Planning Commission lqinutes
October 28, 1982
Page 3
Mary welter, an ad.jacent property owner, expressed her concernsregarding the satellite sewer system. She felt that they are unsani-tary and usually not well kept. Waibel stated that the owner of theproperty has to keep them maintained.
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Swearengin asked Waibel to read the conditions which have to besent in order for the Planning Commission to recoruuend approval-conditional use pennit.
pre-ofa
is passed
a commer -also is a
Waibel said that the first condition is that the establishment,
maintenance or operation of the conditional use will not be detri-
mental to or endanger the public health, safety, morals, comfort,or general welfare. Swearengin stated that he feels this request,
because there are so many neighbors against it, is infringing ontheir comfort.
Swearengin stated that he intends to resign if this requestby the City Council. Swearengin further stated that lhis iscial venture on a corner that is not a commercial corner andbad corner trafficwise.
D. Hennessey indicated that they are totaLly against this proposal andwere very surprised at the City Council,s approval of amending lhezoning ordinance to permit tlriving ranges in an agricultural iesidencedistrict. D. Hennessey indicated thats at the City Council meeting,
Pryzmus stat.ed that he had no intent.ions of putting 1ighting on theproperty, she then asked Pryzmus why he is now requesting it.Pryzmus indicated that they would not need to opeiate in the eveningsif they could have had a miniaLure golf course llong with the driviiqrange, but now without the miniature go1f, financialJ.y he will have tostay open in the evenings. Pryzmus indicated that they r.rou Id like t,o
t
waibel said that the second contlition is that the conditional use willnot be injurious to the use and en joyment of other property in the
immediate vicinity for the purposes already permitted, nor substani-tia1ly diminish and impair property values within the neighborhood.
Swearengin stated that this request will effect the neighbors
en joyment. of their property as can be seen by their objections.
vfaibel said that the third condition is that the establishment of theconditional use will not impede the normal and orderly deveJ.opment andimprovement of the surround,ing property for uses permitted in thedistrict. Swearengin indicated that t.he surrounding property isfarmland and that the requesteil driving range wiIl affect the develop-ment of this land as farmland.
Waibel said that the fourth condition is that the conditional usesha11, in aIl other respects, conform to the applicable regulations ofthe district in which it is located. s$rearengin stateal thit accordingto Ordinance 45, commercial development cannot be located in ansewered area, and that the Planning Commission in the past has deniedrequests for other commercial development because they were inunsehrered areas.
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Planning Commission t4inutes
OcLober 28, 1982
Page 4
stay open until approxinately 10 p.m. D. Hennessey indicated that sheobjects to people driving in and out of the proposed driving rangepast their home that late at night; she also objected to the proposedIighting.
Leo We1ter, Eden Prairie, indicated that if the City woulil al-1ow acommercial use on one corner, they will have to a11ow anot.her commer-cial use on the other corner. Bernie Schmidt indicated that sheshould put up a go-cart track on her corner.
hlatson moved, seconded by J. Thompson, to close theAlL voted in favor and the motion carried.
public hearing.
J. Thompson indicated that he feels this request is an inappropriateuse of the land, and that the City has set a precedent in tLe pastthat no commercial use sha11 be located in an unsewered. area-J. Thompson also stated that he was very surprised at the CityCouncil's decision to amend the zoning ordinance to allow drivingranges in an R-lA Distribt and feels that the City Council made iwrong decision.
Waibel indicated that corRmercial requests outside of the MUSA tinewere denied in the past for the reason that they would require abuilding permit- J. Thompson indicated that the City has turned.
down a black dirt operation because it was a commercial outside oft.he MUSA Line, and they did not need building permits or serder and
wa ter .
Swearengin stated that he is totally opposed to this commercial ven-ture in a noncorunercial . nonsewered area and that this request isinappropriate, vrrong to the neighbors, who are all in objection to therequest, and also was very surprised at the City Council's approval ofthe zoning ordinance amendment. Swearengin also indicated surprise atthe staff for apparent push for this request..
Waibel indicate<i that the people of the City have indicated that theywould like a recreational service such as this request in the town.Waibel indicated that golf tlriving ranges are generally not intensive
sewage generators. Conrad indicated that the staff gives their opi-nion based on a development standard.
Swearengin said that the City has set a precedent that no commercial
development sha1l be permitted outside of the MUSA line, he stated hefeels that the City is now contradicting itself, for one person, and notfor the benefit of the community. Swearengin indicated that this type ofdevelopment is not in the Comprehensive Plan.
Watson stated that she agrees with Swearengin in that the City hasalways followed Ordinance 45 in the past by not allo\,ring developmentin an unsewered area. She felt that this is a commercial developmentand shoul-d not be alLo$red in an unsewered area.
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Planning Commission Minutes
October 28, L982
Page 5
Minute s
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M. Thompson stated the that City Council has passed a usage fordriving ranges in R-1A Districts, and possibly there j.s a place inChanhassen for driving ranges, but he feels that this propeity is notthe proper location. He further stated that according to Seclion23-06, the proposed location for this driving range ii detrimental tothe area, injurious to other property, doesni t have anything to dowith the normal and orderly development of the area, aid ttrit tneplan submitted does not show the development as proposed.
Conrad indicated that the plan as shown is not accurate and.sti1l has the miniature golf course shown on it a1on9 withtlicrepancies- Conrad indicated that the DNR has asked thatthe City protect the wetlands on this property.
that it
other
M. Thompson moved, seconded by Swearengin, to recommend. that the Citycouncil deny the proposed request for a conditionar use permit basedon the provisions of Section 23.06. Specifical_1y, this proposal isdetrimental to this specific area, is injurious to other- pr6perty
around. this specific area, is not a normar or orderly deveropmenl forthis specific area. and the specific pl-an proposed for this -develop-
ment is inaccurate, hard to interpret and objectionable based on thefact that the applicant is proposing to have 45 tees with 38 parkingspaces, whi,ch does not correlate to each other, that the proposedutility shed will be located only 50 feet from Highway I17. e1so, the
DNR has recommended that the wetlands be left in their natural state.A1I voted in favor and the motion carried.
M. Thompson
presented.
Swearengin,
moved, seconded. by watson, to approveThe following voted in favor: Conrad,
and Watson. J. Thompson abstained.
the minutes as
M. Thompson,
Meeting was adjourned at 9:30 p m
_C
1
, u, c i I M e e t i n g
CONO I TIONAL US PERMIT,ESTABLiSHI,IENT
(40.' 20, reB2 {o
E
-25 -
iJGE. GALPIII BLYA,',/5 EH G Hi.J
OF A GOLF OR IVIIIG RArantefonac wathe ar
subjec
modi f i
ea ,,ve r e presen t.t to eight condit
ed.
- The Planning Com
I ons. These cond
Hembers of
bee r I icense
January 22,
present.
miss'i on r
i tions we
s evera ne l ghoors irrecommendedepre di scusse d andl. That the aDolicant receive an access permit from Carver County,r1,,.,1:i*i,.?"?gi!ry.rt ror iiceir-orIo county Road 17.z' rnar rhe appr icant submit prans demonrt;.;;;; ii"'runn.. in whichthe parkinq area is to. be .ontt.rii"i so as to a.ain-*Jr''and p.event snrace mareriar r."r,r::!:1s .;:-...iirn in" p..ir"g-i;.]],,sl,d prans sha 1incr ude the tvpe of- surfaie. materi ar -to be usea ini' it'" pilcer"rt ot:;';;:'r::li;;'.::l:ces such as tanasiipine ti,u..i ;;;,;;'the perimetea3. That the premi ses. shal I be free of .l i tter at all times.4' That sanitarv facitiir.r-i"'r]iniained in t;.-;;.;'ii saterires asshor''n on the orooosed pran on ttre ;;;;;r", aurrnj'iouIs"'oi'operat.i on.5. That qrounds securitv-iisi;ii;;:'";r. ap?lovej uy ilre-iity Ensineer,be shierded so as not to interier" iitt,.traffic on iri ghways 5 and Ir7.6. That the citv [6ul6ii-;;y-;;r;i""*," p..,ii;.r;;;,,;;ii.s a rindine_,,i th anv provision-s.of *,"'p.iili;';;;;r9 been material)y viorated.
".1;,.ll3lrthe
appl i.uni cof,iir'riln""li'r appricabre city ordinances and
.r:'r.;li:rl:;r:o"icant compnv with all appticabre referrar asency rure-9. That no chanog or al teration be al j owed within ten feet from theedse of the ravinel .The ,;ii;;;-b.;in"wrr r noi'61"]ri.ir.o-in any way.The appricant is suo5eii i;-i;;-p;;iirronr.or *re-srroi!irn'a n"srrations.t0. The hours of operati;r;;.';;;;'rrn.ise to sunset.Il. Vend i na machines, snack birs "" "f ectroni c games ire prohibited. _tz' A reviied pran shalr -u" rri,iiii"i to ..ir..i-iii iiior.a condition .councirwoman swenson-- It shourd arso be understood that this is ani nterim use. lle are not intending to establish;,fl::'ifl:;'.il,t!i:li:ll:,: :1ru:,;;:,,:j;.lu:will eventual ly be ,tif i iij ir 'irr.".tt er manner.-
counci rman Gevino moved that the counci r approve the conditionar usepermit request for the-9orr ariJi;;";;;;. with conditjons as staredabove. The conditionat"ri. p.i,iiir*ii'itupp"ar as a consenr agenda item -on a future Councir agenda...'Notior-i.iono.o uy-coJnIii'n,ir.Ho.n. Thefo l lowi ng vo ted in f3 y6 p; Nayo" iuriiiin, corncr lwornan swenson,counci rmen Neveaux. Gev i n9 i n i -
;t. ;;':' ' '
,r" I n.9.ti ve votes. Notron carried-BILLS: Councilman Neve aux moved to approve the bills as presented:checks #t4t23 rhrorroft *i+2si"ii"t;; ;;5;rt_or iao6,lsr.iql, Ino *recksil:l::,,lll"illl,1,r?iu i,. the amount of-is:s,sq2lo5l..r,roiiJn","conded by
,:t:iit;;:ti.it::,Jl:.3:Jl:yi;:,,i:;:.J1,':i:li,"l;I,i;:;iir,is;;";,,,;:
HOPK tNS JAY CEES BEER L ICEN SE:presen t seek r ng dpprovaand meeti ng banque t to be held
,fiDiz-t?t4s^/r&
or a
the Hopk i ns Jaycees wergror-a regional Jaycees awa rd s _1983, at St. Hube;r,s.
REGUL A R CHANHASSEN
\ovembet 4, 1985
Mayot Hami I ton
to the Flag.
\.: nta
T#
t!,
called the neetinq to order. The neeting was opened rith the pledge
n tl.a
oe!
-Jst,-#
_ r!3:
,r ttn
1 t jI
: thl.
r rtl:t
r, tt:l-o I
!en ba_
Counci I man Horn, Counci lwOman l,atson,
Council!loman Syrenson and Councilman
Gevinq
D on
and
AShY.orth, Barbara
Bi I I l,,lo n k
Dacy,
CONSEN T AGENDA:Councilwoman Watson noved to appsove thethe City Managerrs reconmendations !
fol low-ing consent agenda
APPR0VAL 0F AGENDA: Mayor Henilton moved to appiove the agenda aa presented. Motion'ras seconded by Councilman Geving. The folloning voted in favorl l.layor Hsmilton,Councilwomen vlatson and Swenson, Councilmen Horn and Geving. No negative votes.Hotion carried.
item pursuant to
RES0L UTI0N {A5-62. Approve Resol ution RevokingPermit for Tri-Properties, Northwest Corner ofCounty Road Il7.
Conditional use
Hiqhr.ay 5 and
and Swenson,
aaa :
;, ol
e_t
:I
llotion was seconded by Mayot Hamilton.
Councilman Gevinq: prior to the timeand ready to be t urne d ove. the Carverthat the item be placed before the City
Ihe iol I oirinq voted
Counci lmen Horn and
that the attornsy's final report is finalizedCounty District Cou.t, I nould Iike to .equestCouocil so that we can see the results oF his
. sa-
'scl
_:',
in favor: Mayor Hamilton, Councilwomen l{6tsonGeving. No oegative votes. Motion carried.
!INUTES I
Aoend City Council minutes dated 0ctober 7, I9B5 under
!uoo",. page I, peragEaph 2, Councilwonan Swenson. Ixoless effective than one permanent enployee.
Consider Adoption of the I9g5
part-tine employees would be
ADend City Council ninutes dated 0ctober j, 19A5, under Consider Adoption of the 1986
-fuoou.,Page1'pata9raph7,firstsentence'oon,n.n,o"t=1i-tt'iffi.i
I::,1":rr". inprovements, it t{as brought up by Councilman Gevinq that rre needed torook to a shelte. building at Lake Ann park.
Councilm6n Horn noved to approve the City Council Dinutes dated0hended. l'lotion tras seconded by syor Hamilton. The folloxingl{ayor Hamilton, Councilwonen Uatson and Srrenson, Councilnen Hornneqative votes. Iotion carried.
0ct obe r 7, I985 as
vo ted i n favo c:
snd Gev inq. No
#7
( . c0uNcrL r,tEE rING
!l{em be r s PEesent
Ilembe rs Absent
lldne
S ta ff Present
(t
City Council Meeting - February 23, LIBT
Councilman ceving: yes, I'm goirg to stay with my motion.
coureilman Horn: r think if we saw some kind of an Ror calculation on t'is wenight feel d ispensed to do sonethi.ry ut"rt ii J"r rre donrt see anything.
Don Ashworth: tet rE do ttEt.
Councilman C€virq: Okay, give us sorne facts.
councirman Geving moved, I,tayor Hamilton seconded to move the purchase of a csovehicle to a 1988 budoer ite; ard that tf.," C"rilif get statistics on repairsthat tnve been made ..,a ur9 needed ro u" pr"="nt ci6-#;;i;:"*;,.;:proceed with hiring part-time potice serviies Eorn carver county with theurderstanding that onlv after -the city hi;;;" -new
a:ur. ic safety Director andE. Tk:= his own prograo choices ana 'trre
".r""tlon of his own personner. Ar,r.voted in favor and motion carried
I PT]BLIC HEARING:
ffifficoNprrror\Al
Barbara Dacy: Attachment #1 ref_lects.the applicant,s application to have thecorditionar use perm it for a c,orf Driving na'nqe reinstated at the no.trrr!"f'=corner of calpin Blvd- arxl TH 5. councii r."uir" that the @nditionar use
ffi:*.1}Ei:-if$,'*:H;:.e,:'#: ;:HI**;:iH :flfliil h*r",.' LAttornev to file suit resardins "ioi;t;;;i ir," uui".nl-."a-i"irig'=ordinance resardino the junk, iitt"i-."a' a"uiiJ on tr," property. we haveincluded in your pa"ree a checkrist of items -regarding
your original permitatr*)rovar' Ttre councir has basicarry two oplioni this Lv'ening.--il"1^ i" a"reinsrare the permit- rr Ehat ii--ti"l"ri5" irre councir is ro rake, it isrecommerded t,.at the conditions in t,.e appiicu.,t," f"tt". L;pil:.i; ""well as any other cordition the couneil a'i.= lpp.op.iate incruding addiEionarsite pran review and submittar. .r l.-r."rlJ'.i1'" pr"r, for s.aff,s ieview. rhesecord oprion is for rhe. councir to a"nv -G G.it"..",."t "iJqda.='ii'
a,.,.ais the councilis acrion gT tr," a;.;a-':";;r'resaraing the viorations ro theNuisanc'e anr the zoning ordina"." "iri lio.&-io t.iur. A date has not beenset tEnding action this evening.
I'tayor fhmilton cal1ed ft: pullic hearing to order. Councilman Geving moved,
ffffir:::rrrS:son seconded ro ctose p,.,6ri" r,".iing. Arr vored in_ijuo. una
John pryzmus: I would like y.ou to refer to the letter that I wrote to vou.Basicalry, we c.rn go through hhat w" can x-i-Jo"r s..y with ;.;-i,; o'ioJo. rnnnow ard rhen you can go ahead. rf you read $,.o"gtr th;;lJ;; b."i;iry _everythins on the first oag. Fi been compteteo. wt"t ,u" on ti"-"*lt *n.is what r've proposed to a6 wittr th;-;;''";;:*plan and a new grading pran.SchoeII ard Madsen have already done the S;.di,rS plan anl the site Dlan Iarreadv been drawn up and r rr."" u.opy o?-ii.#i'r v"r--.iJrli".""'ii.X"l. [ -them' rf you have any quesLions uu"ui'atut,'viu can ask ." q,r""ti;-Ji, L
USE PERMIT FOR DR IVING RANGE, CR I17 ANDrj
LO
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City Council tGeting - February 23, LIAT
{/ar A a)
I whatever. If you donrt-we can go to the cordition that you I had done wrong.The condition that you had revofed it for and that was that the structure wasnot.sourd.- Bas.ically, when f came here a couple years ago, the structure of ageodesic dome is desiqned so it can,t falr doil rir<" . iJi'oi-yo"i- tii-o,
"ooabuirdinqs that are oui on farms that are far,ling down after aging. This is afiberglass
.
building tia r- is bolted together;illi steer anit thi ,iV it-i"designed, it can't farr down- there ias never a problem for any i."it"nt o.an1*hing like that to haptrEn because of the buird-ins. ;-i;.; iiiiis*'it
ITISI the three. glass_sliding doors rhat go in it] Utrg ttrJ i' ,."nlt tnDrlsrness at the tj.me, if you ptt the three sliding glass doors in, you wouldwird up -havirg somebody turn arourd, throw a roct -oi rhro;-;;.ilir[--tt ro,,gnthe wirdows arri then r $rould have smashed out windows and then ti,"i! *o"ra ua problem. of somebody gettirg cut if they did go in ttrere. as f";-;-th"earth moving ard the stumps, when I camJ here i years ago, I told the peoplethat moved alL the earth. a$ moved the stumps ard tle tiees in the towiarn,not to p.rt them croser than 10 feet to the treek. rn fact, r tord them to stayat reast 30 feet away- !,{hen r fourd out when r came here that they were tooclose, f hired Jeff Swedlund to go out with his backhoe so he woultn,t getclose with tte big machine so he could reach in ard make *.. .J Jr oi ti,.twas purred 3g or 4a feet ar.eay from the creek and it is stirl there and it,sjust stumps. As far as number 4, the removal of chemicars ard to refiiin tromusing chemicals, r never had chemicals out there. Ttre stock pire of silicasard that the council thought was chemicars, was not. The caiister r got fromStodola Well Company when they set up the pump ard Stodola Welt Compinjr hasbeen giving us water for 50 years so there werL never any chemicals-thit wouldever have been a problem- As far as the electrical, the onry time there wasany electrical on out there is if rrm on the site ard that ii just . t .por..ypump. That electrical wil-I not be there other than rrhen I am pumping waterfor the tee area. That's the first 5 things in the original ."rtiri& t.tt"rthat r got that revoked my permit. rhen you go on to aik for 9500.00 escrowarrd 5L5,609.0q bo(d. If .we go bgck to my original letter, I was running mydriving range here for G years in chanhaisen. r,lever was there a proureir. rhecity never had to come down there and telr me to mow my grass. when the fencestarted deteriorating, r removed it- the buirding eventually deteriorated soI. just removed it ard got rid of it, buried it. From my firlt driving range,which a lot of the council members had apprehension in letting ,n" .un] n"u".once did we have a rawsuit or problem. Never r^ras anybody hurl. coirq back tomy retter' r employed numerous young people in the comrnunity. My new drivingrange I $ronrt be doing that. There wiLl still be maybe 4 or 5 younq people butthey wirr be either high school or correge and then r will havl u iuir il*.manager runnirg it. If we go back to the original 12 things that my permitsaid I had to do, if you go through them, never once aid f ao anything. you
say there was litter on the premises. okay, in a letter from Ari earfridge,
somebody dumped a cooler. When the City told me that it was out there, I r.rentard got it. When I bought the larxl, people had dumped. They could back inthere because there were two driveways. ltow I proceeded to put a berm sonobody can back in there anymore. I did pile dead elm trees that the neighborTed Benson and I pulled out of the creek. We've been cleaning up the creek.His side ard my side. we'!ve been sperd ing a rot of Lime ard .on6y .reuning opthe creek- we don't wanE to block the creek. we want to keep it ilowing sopeople put reaves arrl grass r^rhat have you there and it was referred to icod
onry know what is out there" yet the city rnspector went out there before r
II
r
a
L
; i..i(
got a burning permit ard th91e yas no garbage. Somebody did dump a mattressand that smordered when r. rit it so then r put it back out. e""'n tr.ro"qn "o."of the statements about different things, I guess I haven't seen where'theconditional use permit shour-d have even been
- revoked because r never once didanythirg that was really bad against it. t'Iovr, fina[y r got til-rinunti.q. r
9l9sed up my other driving ralge- aF_ I'm ready 1o open up there ana give it myfurr artention. Not only would r like to get the aiivirfi ;,rg; ;;;r:i;ted butil*n r'-11 be going back.to_ rhe planning commission for, i ta.ri .-uoiiJing o"tthere for some things, indoor batting ina trrinqs like that wtricn riii-strow ttre.whore grading pran and tJle berming and t-tre trels and it wilr re totairvscreened r think from cR rl7. Especiauy the neighbors to tne nor[-w'on'teven know it once r move au- of il. r Gve about- 16g tr*.s reri on my oradrivirg rarge to move out there yet anl r have 6 dead willow trees that r $rirlbe moving into ttEt corner so i[ should be a beautifur ttring ioi-tt. *tor.community ard r want to come back next month but ir vou reii=Lt"Gi=, ti,i=would be the first process fof rE to 9o on.
Councilman Johnson: you c_overed- one of my questions is i{hat are you going touse w.ith that buirding? r lvas red to beiie;e that urrler this permit you canonly have a drivirg rarrye- you can'!r have practice ;iil rrs
-;J;ii"ei3r"
m"trs an arrowabre conii tio_nal use or any kind of use hrithin that district, itsourds to me like the only way to do it would be to petitio. t Iti.,g" ;,Zoning Ordinance to allow you batting there. Barb, ielp me there.
Barbara Dacy: yes, that's correct. rn fact, vre made that known to theapplicant_that currentry golf driving range is not incruded or a conditionatuse ard if reinstatement is^granted.lonigirt, it,s only for the originii us".that were approved in tne t98Z permit. if ine appf :.cint wishes to-buililadditional buildings, yes, we rrould have to initiate a zoning Orainance-Amen&nent and go through the process.
councilman Johnson: without that, the building raying out there wourd becomea contractorrs yard?
Barbara Dacy: Ttre building parts r^rould have to be removed unLess theamendnent was approved.
Courcilman Johnson: Can you remove those building [Erts sqneplace else?
John prlzrus: Most likeJ-y. .To answer your question, $rhat it could be iseveryone got an ordinance thing in the mail ind r guess in that zone, r courabuild a buirdirq ard have a farm. r could have a contractor,s yard. r couldhave any number of the things that are a permitted use r,rithout a conditionaLuse- but r $rourd prefer to not have a farm or not have u "ontr."tJs-vuia uutto have a recreationar thing out there and use the buirding ,nrJ rouil-r" urrcedar- The $rhore side ard front would be cedar. rhe grading pran trrat r naoschoell and Madsen do, will have a berm 6 feet high t. tt" "3=i-". urI-buirdirg is a -row profile buirdirg ard you wouldn't hardly, you ,ooiJ ."" tt"roof for the first couple years until tie crees.
l,layor Hamilton: That,s really no! even an issue here. If you hrant to Flrsue
City Council Meeting - February 23, L9g7
1
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H
il
l2
{a 277
I
CiEy Councit Meeting - Eebruary 23, LggT
that,
new.
that's going to back to the planning commission. That \rill be something
Counci lm,an Johnson: So, donrt get your hopes up. There is a 1ot of mentionof a eJetlards. r warked the area ttris weeierd i.d ,h"re is this eretlarxls?
l4ayor Hamilton: It r^,as on the northr^,est qcrner .
John Pryzmus: That was a rot of problem ard a lot of controversy with thecity @uncil and if you go back to the letter vrhere Bilr uonk arid r went outthere ard we addressed this two years ago. The first thing on it is that it,snot a r^retlands. rt was a farm when r bought it. rt $ras a tree farm but Mr.Lyman, who had originalry owned it, had farmed that rg acres all of his life.Ttpre was never a cattail so r r^rish the city wourdn't refer to it as wetlandsbecause itts not. It neve( was.
Mayor Hamilton: It sure isnrt now because it's filled in.
Councilman Johnson: Barb, was that in our Conprehensive plan as a wetlarxl?
Barbara Dacy: Itrs not a designated wetlands on your map but during @uncilreview of the site in 1982, there was discussion about keepirg all, activitiesout of that wet area, which is in the northwest corner of the site. IastApril of 1985, @uncil members conducted a field visit out to the site withthe City Eng ineer at that time and that was the major reason why theCorditional Use Permit was revoked. ff you refer to the resolution, fi11in9in a rnrctlands and conducting grading operations within I0 feet of the creek.
C-ouncilman Johnson: As I understard this, this wetlards would aid infiltering out any contaminants caused within your property. your run-off andstuff from your property. Does it generally go back towards that corner?vlhat rrm eventualry going at John is, would you be willing to reinstate thatgJetIard?
Barbara Dacy: Staff did not carry out a review yet of that trErticuLar gradingplan but would ard could report back to the Council if reinstatement is
approved .
Mayor Hamilton: I think that's the only way to go.
here ard look at this tonight.
Werre nob going to sit
John Pryzmus: Yes, Schoell and Madsen Engineering has already done this andit's in front of the DNR now waiting for toni.ght ard this would aII be done,it wourd filter just the way it's suppose to with an overfrow so nothing everwould run into the creek. That has been through, I don't know the gentleman's
name at the DNR but the site pran, he had no probrems with it the way schoelr
and l"ladsen had designed it.
Councilman Johnson: !io, we can,t look at it right here. ft does indicatefuture development of the place that youtre sayirg you want to do it now.does show you are looking to reinstate that and thal is something veryimportant that qre build that weElard back. Those are my basic .6,*"nL. '
l3
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City Council Meeting - Eebruary 23, L9B7
{
Councilman Horn: I don,t really think I have any questions. I guess f,m ari*re concerned tiat rhis art ltarted l" rgai.Li h"." Ji'i" is'B;--
Councilman Geving: I'11. teIl you John, Irm very disappointed. I was the oneperson who made the motion to approve'this cornitionJ u=. p.iroit'lii yoo rn1982 or 1983. Over four years ago, lre started this process.- -l;; ;;"continued to frustrate trrrs counli. t to tt"-p"int wheie we had to take regalaction .agai.nst you. you did not- appear ;J;. were called. you were non_commuaicative when you- werc q611ea.- wa ."L"i you on a number of occasions tocome before the Council arri speak to us. we Ei"a to tr""t-V* i.l*-gentremanly manner and. you av6ided * "rrd t* ignored us. r canrt see howyour past rErformance is going
.ro.. improve b! grinting yoo " coJitioi} u""Fermit under a reinstatement at this time.'ylu have caused the taxpayers ofChanhassen a lot of money. we have cfr"s.o vou]"r't,.;;;;;:#. wehave attempted to qet yo; i" rront-oir= t"'L* to you. you have avoided usard I would be veri, very anxibus tot.* ]-r# oo. Attorney rrhether or not, ifr've did reinstate this co;ditionar u". p".rl-J'io you, whether or not ere cour.dcollect those damages tllt we t."" p.ial"i, ire attorney fees ard cgurt cpststo date. secondty, would you b" ,iiii;g-a;'$y tnose costsu
John pryzmus: As far as the problems that the City has had erith me, a lot ofthe times they were unfoundi prourems r*" ie chemicars ard the erectricalso, serd an Attornev doh,n. t would pay his f. f:. "o."tni.,g i;i"-iii" *.o.,s.r have no probtem ,i tt tt.r., r "t;.;;'p";;|-a.ra. or Ery to. r feer wherecomments from the councir., where we'ie ,joi'.,s
.io
tr". l.--='i"-rr-L ii"iln i" ai,.building and thinqs ,t*:-Tral ,ir"n it'pr#in--g "rr"ry dime I got into it overthe last 5 years, did vou -ever once say, oh, I see it,s coming alorg? In Lheoriginar conditional use t had i o.y-Li'a"y '.g'reerent with the landowners downhere arrl at any day that somebody .tfa tf,. fJnO, f would be gone. I $rouldhave to sell. I would have to *6". tf.," Jii"In! ,"n9". As everybody knows,chanhassen didn't qro\., as fast .. r r,"J r,op"a-.na r ,ouna up hariirg'to setr myland' r'row, is whe-n t have to move out. r vrould have rather moved out thereard had everything ooing 4 years ago. rt-ro"ia have been a rot better for ardobviously tor ttrii crty. eithough -r oia uuira -tne whole tee area the firstyear. I seeCed it all- I mowed the ditched out there- I,ve done a lot ofthings that nobodv has ever given ,r. ;;t-;;;i; fo, so =o.e oi.i'. Liig" .r]utthe ci.,, has hounded *" on, ind r "o*. i., -ir-oni or yo, .J 1uti"?"ari."*yit's not a wetlands. you have hounded ,* t flt ,.". I guess, I would bewillirg Eo share mv oart of the debt tl,ri tt.-citv has ircurred so far butIetrs sit down and-talk about our feefinjs. "
councirman cevinq: Do vou think it.'s fair on your part to force the citv offf ii;;:'.ff r'r'' *-,:"#!1"fi:i.;:::'il:,g; i;;; ;;;;="ilE,"il? ." u.
$::"?",-ffi""I;.jiTltiJ,l$: r jusr said rhaE. r would be wirrins ro
councirman Geving: r want that in the record prease. secondry John, this wasintended as inner use- There were . nuro". or iorditions on the corrritionar-Use permit when we oave it to yot._ f fl."" ."r"i -yet seen your completed plan.The City has never ylt """n your tighting ptan.-- we have not seen your parking
t_
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City Courcil Meeting - February 23, L9g7
t )ryo
I PIan. I have not seen a grading plan or reforestation plan. I knot, yourvedone a lot of olantinq out therl. I have not =."n .ny of those plans. I haveno idea what v6u rear r-y interxr J. uir.i "J ih"e 3 or-4 times *rit-i-forsonattyhave stotr4:ed, rooked at the site, ," ,"nI oot'ttere in 19g5 as a couircir andwalked over nearly every. irch of that p;op";ty. we saw the debris. I,{e sawthe electricar rines in the. water_ana'on'ttre lrouno. we saw the old ice boxor whatever it r,,ras, the -cooler. ttre geoaesic iome, which we advised you torear do$rn arxr qer rid of. you still'h.;;;,;d*;u,"i.""w.="Eliis'di, ".. .do. anything until you got further go .t..J-rr; the city councir ard yet r $rasout there on at least 5yo l9asio.ns w19re you were mounding up dirt. you rrerehavirg rubbish hauled in. you got a fire ftrmit frcrrn the City. I don,t knohrhow that happened but it d_id. i "., t;; ,o-uk;'. rrench the entire renqth oftle property along Garpin Brvd.. vou 'iil;; some kird of a prastic pipe ana!:*.,tT"ltr{, yesterday r drove by ttrere and r see alr kinds of metar. whatls that steer going to be used for arrr wny is trrat ti,Lr"i-'vo, ,.rf i"trr i ""anot to grt anything on that. property. ftln,-ri"n I sar,, the condition of theeretlards ard what vou had atiemptea'to J. [i, .""i.,g aII of that rubbish downinEo the bortom raird ." rh;-;;;G:'f ";i'aiJl.oyins rhar wetland and rhecreekbed' rhat rearlv hurt- r saw a b"b";;; th]"ri arr "o.-*o 1"il-.r.rv$rorking the ]and to move. tnat rubbish i-n; Jre* wetrana ".... oon,i-iJr *yrrm wrorq because t saw_iL-- That-;;'il *; creaned up. werve sot torestore the wetland are-a... we.,ye.got 1"' =U-yoi. pf.n". !{e woutd li(e to know$'hat your rongrarge pran for that deveropm"nt i=. Tonight r hear somethingabout a batEing cage. IhaE's the f i.J-[i*-"'tfl'ut has ever come up. I haveseen chicken $rire our rhere. r aJl-L"""i,y-TJ* il;;;,."= i5inn,.o oowith that for fer:cino- . ,.+n, I ;;;'; k.;; ?ti.a yor,.. plannins on doins inthatacreagelutrcJnte11.you,r'*_nJ-i,'?i.,|.orreinSl-itingyour
conditionar use permit' ttrii ilem "t*ia'L.i"to the planning commission andit should go throuqh the entire p.."u"= .if*"r.r again because the day we:l::3 T: s"^t.=-9n. you, 1:d roox you-lo ;;;r;;L" barlsame srarred ulr ou",agatn. your Corditional Use permit ,"= zuif"O. you no longer had aconditional Use permit- As .far as r,r 1J*-"-.i";,. you have to start the entireprocess arr over aoain hv going back
-rr
ui," pir."i,ia co**i=iioi-Iil i.iaing u"take a look aE it -from
an entirely """;;;'# see what you,re realfvinterding to do r.rith r.h3r. .property.
-i i.." frI,u. "p"nt money out rhlere.Thatrs not my concern' r *?n!- "o*Lthing trratis 900a for the city of chanhassenard your past performance. tells me ttrai 1l.urJ q.i.g to put a r'.,t .r l."rvstuff r.4> there. your lighting "t.nauia.
,.-.-"-Ioi
going to be up to ourstandards' your parkirg. area-is not g-oing t" f' what we consider to be a niceentrance to the community
_and until i;;;;.y of plans and specificationson whaE you inrerd ro do, I don,r think ,;;;;; ro ler you do anyuhinq onthar properry. you can do anythinj y;; ;;-r;,'ii:- ri;i ;;G;.y.fiI.,il.rrv,you,re no. allov/ed as a permitted ir.. to lui'" iolf driving range there iowarxl thatrs what you ,unt to do.. .My p""itj." j='at.a it shourd go back to thepranninq commission ard start
.
this'-"t ii" pit"".s- aII over ug"r,i1fr-rnj., youcan start working with the !.i-tv ary ou. siuli
"-no not frustrate our staff ardour CounciL people, then werlL work with you. tf,ut ..il;;;-"; #;:
I3f '.i'ilii'"tT *lI ;"; l',Ti ;:"::-::"":r'l:.1'.n Dare jusr said. probabry
jusr come t" Eh" cilvauncir "#-J.ij-.i-r""'i='1u_"iu;'ffi:nn!:"r,|r.il:,.l*,,"havirq problems getting eguipment o. finln.iJ; r"rhatever, just if you hiould
l5
L
t
;'!\)r
City Counci I tEeting - February 23, L9B7
CHAI.I}IA SSEN HILLS VTATER}4AIN DffENSION.
Cnry Warren: Chanhassen Hills trunk watermain extension is basically thethird. part of our ptanned expansions of the watermain for the water iystem forthe City. this was before the Counci I in late January where we.ppro-.r"d pl.r,.ard specs. We received bids on the 17th arrl we had good response-igain with
12 bidders. The three low bidders were within 2? of each other so ie feet wehave some very competitive bids. The low bid is for $343,962.99 which isabout 23 over the engineer's estimate. we feel that based on the uncertainyof the wetlard construction ard such that the bid is very responsive. CivilStructures is the firm, the low bidder. Ihey are the same firm that we
awarded our Powers ard Kerber BIvd. watermain extension to recently ard in
checking their references personally and from the consuLting eng ineer, we findagain, very favorable response for it. I would therefore recommerd that we
award the contract to Civil Structures in the amount of 5343,962.A0.
Resolution *87-13:tlamil ton moved, Councilman Horn seconded a[proval of theaward of or the Chanhassen Hills Trunk Watermain extension to CivilStructure, Irc. in the amount of $343,962.90. AII voted in favor ard motioncarried.
1987 BOARD OF EQUALIZATION, GENERAL DISCUSSION, SCOTT WINTER.
!.
Mayor. Hamilton: Hopefully things will move alorq as well this year as theyhave in the previous years an:r r think working with yourseLf arid rrank, it hasbeeo our experience that itrs been much better than it has been in Eheprevious 4. or 5 years so I hope we can continue that tl4>e of experience.
Ll_I
t5
AIARD OE BIDS:
have let us know what the heck you're doing- But you kept us in the dark arxlwe've asked to meet with.you, as Dale said, we "=f"O .o'rn""t "iify.,r
-""a *the site arrJ you didn't show up. ff you had .to*n "p ard told us what wasgoing on' rf you had tord us ,t.t tnL .i,..iJ cans were that $re found outthere. AII r.re can do is take a guess. w" ii; them there iJ ourioo=i.y n ,"usins chemicars for somerhing an6 yoo ,..L.,;[- gh.r" to-p-iJ""-nf iJ".'"J? "ra..tnvirg been invited so it's been u t.u"trili.q lxperience for us as rrm sureit has been for you. I truly beJ. i-ev_e *"4 -y*
want to make it a nice facilityfor the community ard for yourserf ror ".rer'yoL'here to use ard r would riketo see you comprete the project but Im no€ "o =ur. trrat oare lsn,i-.igi,t trrutit should.probably go bacl t5 the pranning-c"iii=..on so we can take a rook atyour grading prans. Thke a rook at you. w-not" ft.n. r think ,t..,-yoo-ri."t
Tme to.us with your plan, lrou had iird of a nana sketched pf"" ti,ii ," ,"ntalong with and that was probabry our mistake. vre shourd ha-ve reqrired thatyou had more specific drawings with more specifications on it. --f irrinr ,,o,
.Uy! that is probably tne beit thing for yiurselt ard for us ro do. I dober ieyg that you are goirg to make i nice-facirity out there but r think youneed to go back ard Iook at more planning.
Councilman Cevirlg moved, Councilman Horn seconded to deny the request toreinstate the corrlitionar use EErnit for the Driving nanle at ttri-.o.n"i orG II7 ard T1l 5. All voted in favor of denial ard motion carried.
(
ARTHUR !7. PARTRIDGE
6280 HUMMTNGBTRD noAD
ExcELsroR, MINNESoTA j r3Jl
5r3t7
(
i2 ;.pri1 1957
Plenrin6 Connissi-ol,
City of Charhassen
690 Coulter )rive
Chanhassen, lliDnesota
i?e: Re o-uest for Zoni.ng Aneadnent, Conditional Use perlait, & i?et_lanal Alteration pernlt; Johr:. ?ryzmus et a1. 22 Aprii 19Ez
I t'ri11 be out of torm on the night of this public gearia€, e.nd
'Iou1d appreciate qy vi evrs coasidered ia your reccoi,&endation tothe City CounciL.
As some of you aay know, it lras over this j-ssue that I resigned.as qnairEatx of the plr','',i ng Coruoission severaL years ago. Otul1allj.mous rejectiou of this proposal then sras over_ritiden by theCi.ty Councj-I, lvhich, r.dthout a pulttc Iiearing, a,aenaied. tfre L:.tyZoning code on the spot and issued. a conditi6nar use ?erralt. TireAroun{s for this unp:.ecederxted ectio[, as ex]:ressed. by our ;.iayor,izere rrthe snal1 busiaessneu deserves a breqk'too,,, or rrorris tLthat effect.
lhe proposal before you now has no nore :0erit tha. in its origi-
:a- i9".. If anythj.n6, ,rith the ad.d.ition of a:r ,'ind.oor battln!bui-1din5' " it 1s eveD rore bizarre, tacki.er, and. less cesireable.
?his city has alweys paid at least 1ip service to the corceDt or^attractive entreJrces to our torm. !e l.yare taat ,;e ,a" ="""==-"""the ,/est as vre11 as .iast. ?hj- s proeosal is cusheri as a recreational:'ac11it7, but in iact is pla.irnei al a sinpil co:uuerciar ve:1ture.Ihere is no real diiference bet.,reer. a 6oli dr:-vin5 ra:rge/:j-niature;c1f course/indoo:. battinc briL dii:s anl a Arive_:.n thaatre, avater- sIid.e, a petting zoo, or . go_-trrt trac::. lhere is no need:cr this ie-cili.t;,r ajt;r'..,.here i:r rj. s Cit7. tlere - i"' ""
-n""""r"G*
:'" ":.":: olll' nev- zoain3- co(ie si:pl; bclause ihe apptica:rt yantsco:xethi:t; p:.oper1y rot aLIcved..
Count;' 1
in the C
IIi;irr';ay
T ^^- r+
anir resi-
iJ, or Gal-pi:: trs.lre f,os.C at its-_xolthern enC, is totalL).1al a:rri agriculturel ::o=tl of rii:_hlzay >, foiir-i" iact endorprehensive ?la:r. Ihe latC betneen i:re-i:US;. Line e:rdi is stead:i1y bei:r; split :nto e;:pensive -resi;.enti.af.
sites.believe you rvould flnC eay supp"rt ior this ve:rture flo,nCents arrT'zhere on Couxty 117.
i:r. ?ryz:lus has had three years to d.o so:aethins i,J.ith jr.is lend and.vlth tire. perrrit ori.giaally issued. hi,::r. :ie las iae tho ;;;;ir;;olresent his desires during the gestation of thenev Zonin5 Corie . Ttis ::ct his ri6ht to Ce:ae.nd, or ;,-ur obU.5ation to provice sootzoning cha.:rges at this late Cato.
'oes the applicant ceserve a "break'r no'r? riis past actions d.eronstrab.r_ysug;est that he Lacks r.espect for-his property, lri" "uist Uor;;--aDc the letter a:rd. spirj.t of our City ""1u.. i ',rouiol.G""i-rrlr*""
nore than a:r entrenched eyesore aad lubuc !,uisonce ai thLsproposal- cones to fruition.
irE-".-.-f]
ApR i4 i:.S7 #ll
ctry or cnnrvxessEr,,t
{i2 ;inr:,I 7
,
fn the course of your heerin;, /ou rd ght Ceterl:rine atrsv/ers to so:ieoi the follovring o-uesti-ons, vhj-cl1. cast l:;rt on hov ruch supportti:e appl,icant Ceserves;
1) ';ias a pe:'::rit j.ssued befole the sitabby li.ttr1e seconai-hand Co:oe
\ras moved ir? i'rere perraits sou;ht before !ouri:16 the slab it
rests on, oI installj.r:6 the eLectric service entrance?
2) il'ere aly City pez'aissions sou6ht before usin6 the site as a
t eropora:y du:ap for :raterj-a1s renoved fron Highway 5?f) After allowing the site to be use{i for several years as aa
un-authorized s=ni te:'y 1andfi11 ( trsanitary is used loosely),
i.id the applicant have any peraits or even notiiy the City
before setti.n6 fire to ids rubbi.sh?
4) iias he already altered desi5nated vetlaad.s vrithout a perzdt?
5) In additioa to the piles of second-hand building aaterl-aIs aatlolii ioaciriaery stored. on the site, there are at leest tlro lartetires storeal in violati.ou of Oralinatrc e s. ifhy?
5) 5as the applicant the resources to resolve his p1a.:1 pronptly
ii it is a11owed, oI would this drag on arother three yeaJs?
Ii you a,re satisfied e"ith the appl,icant, you should exa[iae the
applicstioa itself. i1ould you a11ov this ir a residential neiSh-
bc:.5oori ? I,Iolr ard for the irixediate future, tiris A-2 lanC i,s just
that, a:1d Cese:'n'es as rxuch protection floa coaEerci-e1 encsoach.Eent
as arjr otner resideEtiaL area. Are you p:'epared to spe11 out
lirits on hours of ope:'ation, si-te lighting e:rd t:affic control,
staldards by v/hich the operation can be tel:linateci if the pemits
5i.er:. t t rer:el:,ed o:' a:.^e revokeC fo:' cause? .7ou1i. jrou personeliy like
:o 1j.ve ::ext door to this operatioa' or be tryl::5 to se11 fand for
:'eside:rces across the street fron it?
lhe i3ct t;1at a businessrar is iict 'Jealthy is not ln itseLi a
:.eason :.or support, nor is the City in e.r:t/ i:al responsible ior
Cuarariteein€ a rar a ;lrofJ-t iron laad bou€at speculativeiJr. Ihere
i?as :1o ?esson to a]lorv this proposal th:'ee yea:es aSor and there is
legs rcason ::.on, given the sor:'y tri sto:'y of the site a.rld tire
::ij.1 c-ualitf of rec e::.t ievelop:nents alons ihe road.
I u:Ce iou .'o reject this proposal i- a11 its parts. (I?.e::enber
ti.at ;atcr levcLs a::e rcu:'1:17 ti13ee ieet ici?er tha:] last 7ea3'
sioul,L Tou be te::ptca to ;ive tile e:'adi:lc pe:=rit. )
iiespectfull:/,
A:thu: ,i. P3rtriilq
/ s , -l;a (,' rz1 Hls l/L' f6sc!. o =7.' 1 fi
"
st+t'i{ia;; -
-TElc,< 4r<ltt-,! /N CL4-2/ttJ1' 4P //tozl-"2:K!
lt orz,l,uvrtut:f Au 7' *1t f>u'tz7/o/z- 7/c's'!-
267- J77/77'l :
/-
I (.S
CITY OF CHANITASSEN
AND HENNEPIN COUNTIES, MINNESOTACARVER
DATE:November 4 19 85
MOTION By: Watson
RESOLUTION NO:
SECONDED BY:
85 -62
Hami Iton
A RESOLUTION REVOKING THE CONDITIONAL USETRI PROPERTIES, INC. FOR A DRIVINE NENCT
CORNER OF CR, 117 AND lti 5
Chanhassen City Council this
ISSUED TIO
NOR?HEfES T
wit h
had graded
a wetLand on the
violations
21 , 1985 in
ABS ENT
None
PERMIT
AT TIIE
WHEREAS, a cuditional use permit was issued on December 19,I983. to rRr propertig:,--r1.. foi a lori-arivins-ra"s!-]i-iienorthwest corner of CR_I17 and TH S, "n fS.L Acres in the S,!g Iof_section-19r nop. 116, Range ,3,-w";f of CR 117. parcelr.D.# 25-0101800.
.^--y!!RPos, on May.20, 1985 the City council hetd a publicnearlng to review the compliance of -the uncomplet.a -ti.iiiivconditions of permit approval .
. WHEREAS, it was found that the permit holderr+ithin ten feet of Bluff cr;;k ;; tii"'iirr"a tnsite; both in violation of the upproila'p.r*i t .
and
an
WHEREAS, -the permit-holder was notified of theseother safety related. "or,.".n"-by-i;;;;; dated Mayeffort to secure complrance.
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT. RESOLVED that since no effort has beenshown tolrards comotwing wi th- the-.pprI".a permit, the CityS:$::tr:::ebv revoies-saia oonaiai;;;i-,"" pe.mit :.ssuJ' to rRr
Passed and
day of
adopted by the
November
ATTEST:
Don As r.J or
,1985.
rh, c 1 Cl-er k Man ag er Tho MI
YES
Hamil ton
Horn
Watson
Gev in
t'bSwen s on
tflftrllrx;T#/^
NO
None
-_--._.-
-_.._.-
r
APPLICANT:
ADDRES S
TELEPHONE (Daytime )
REQUEST:
('
I,AND DEVEII)PIIBIT APPLICATIOIT
CITT OP CEAIIEA,SSEU
690 Coulter Drive
ChanhasseD, l{N 553
(61
CMNER :
ADDRESS
rp de
d \.^-l-z-44 t(<
zi p code
TELEPHONE
zoning District Change
Zoning Appeal
Zoning Variance
Zoning Tei<t Anendment
Ianal Use Plan Amendment
Conditional Use Permit
Site Plan Review
Planned Unit Development
Sketch PI
Pre l imi naFinal Pla
Subdivision
_ Platting
l,letes and Bcunds
Street,/Easement Vacat ion
Wetlands Permit
Plan
an
ry
n
.
\a
X
PROJECT NA},IE Cq,
PRESENT I,AND USE PLAN DESTGNATION
REQTJESTED LAND USE PLAN DESIGNATION
PRESENT ZONING
REQUESTED ZONING
}( usES PRoPosED
SIZE OF PROPERTY
l
-+
LOCATION
REASONS FOR THIS REO UEST
LEGAL DESCRIPTION (Attach Iega1 if necessary )
+tj
937-1900
SECTION l: t ISTRlct aouND^alEs
Erc.F rhcc rcf.6<Gr o,r ttE &.i.a h.P,. s(t"r o. rllcv I'n c o$cr
d6ir;.r.d trE br 6m6!rons rhovn q| l,h. mryf dirtricr bound.ry tn.s
ot.ll dirri.rs crc.F d* llood frinS. .rd noode{ ncr, drorllrrd m.n.tc'
,hcrr di$rid ard }.rhrd ovcrlay dtstnd eh.ll folloi to! Un.s ci rh. c.nr.rlin6
of *.c$ o( rlLrr. Whd! int.'D.!r.tii| b nc.dd .3 io dE.xrd bc.ain of
ahc bood.rir of.ry di$ir, rh. Bed of Adjurm. -d AD.eb.h.n m.f.
rh. ncc..rarv inr.rD..ulion.
ARTICLE V. DISTRICT RECULATIONS
SECTION I. SCHECDULE OF USES PERMtrTED BY DISTRICT
Us.. of hnd. buildinls. lnd strudur6 ror Frmitr.d bcbw.t.ith6 principd,
xt rlory or condi(ion.l .rc prohibir.d. Dlstrit r.gul.tio$ I rd to.rh b.br
thdl rko b. .ubi.cl to Orc a.oviiom of Anid.s ll, Ul. Vl, Vll, V lll. lX .nd X.
SECTION 2. 'A.I- ACRICULTUR,AL PX,ESET.VATION DISTRICT
5-2-l INTEi{T. Prclcrvrtion of rrricuhursl hnd!.nd rloein! sinllc-frnily
r.6idcnti.l d.v lorlllcaa ?ith 40 ajl ninimum L,a siz6 !o prc!.w€ rurd
duaad€r in hrlr &!a5 o[ lhc communiry.
t-2-2 Thc folo*int u!. rrc p.rmittcd in.n 'A-1" districl:
t. AtrkukuE
:. Putflc rrld Fiv.rc p.rlt.nd op.' !p...
3. SinSh-f.nnydecllinrsa. UtiIry t.ftt rJ. Sur. lccnscd d.y c.r. c.ntcr for t*dv. or fca,.r childr.o5. Slrl. lic.i5.d froup hom. scTvin! lir or f.rcr D.rson3
5-2-3 Th. foUorh! rll Ftrlhr€d rccssory u!6 in .n "A-1" disrrid:l. Ac.6sory .s.iorlual buildinss
2. Grfi8c. priv.r. nabh! and $imminf poob
3. TGorir couna. Sirni5. Hom. Gup.rio$5. On doct
7. R.os&id. stand
8. Priv{. l.nncl
J-2-{ Th. follosinr arc conditioml os.s in sn "A-l " dislricr:l. B.d en.l brc.kfen 6bblirhmcnr2. Public buildirs.
!. Tanporary mobilc homc (compliaoc€ *nh Aniclc Vt. Sccrioo 6 is
not r.quir.i)
4. Group hom6 for 7,16 p.rsons
J-2-J Lot Rcqut mmrr and Selbacls. Th. followint minimuh rcquircmmts
$aI bG ob!.rvcd in an "A-l " Dillrid subj.cr b.ddirional rcquiraftnB,
clcrpdon! end modificarions 5.1 fonh in rhis Ordinrmcl. Lo( rr!r: Fony acrcs.2. lr. FronlaAc: 150 fc.r.
3. Lot DrDrh: 250 fc.r.
4- M..rimum Lot Cov6arc: 3?..5. Sab.ct(r:
A. . Fronr y.rds: lO fcc!.B. R..r !.ards: Im f.ct.C. Sid. Erds: J0 f..r.6. Mrrimum H.irhr:A. Priocipat Slrucrur.: ahf! lori.3/l() fcGt.B. Aca6sory Struclur.: rhrcc slori6,/4o fcra.5-2{ Prop.rrica dcsign.cd und€r AgriorhuEl prtslry. sErur I provid.d fo.
by Mintl.sota Sratui. 473, shan b. zoo.d A-l AgicuXuri, pr6.rv.s undl
.uch d6iSnation is rlqucstd by rh. tardo*n6 ro bG r.movcd. No !rr-
--J'lirriro fG! b r.qur.d fo! r!"oninS th. propdty from A-l !o lnodt.!
'-""- ditsi''€-
( sEcnoN !.' -A.2- AGR|CULTUML ESTATE DrsrRlcr\S.}I_DEENT. PrE .rv.!on of rurat drsra<r.r whit. Espoctint dcv.toFrnt
psttcrrs by db*int sinSh frmity r€lidcfltiat dcvcloprtr.oll3'2 Tl* folo,inr us.t lr! ,rd,Eitt d h .n ..A-2" dirdicr:l. Alri.Irlrrlr!
2. Public rdd priv.rc p.r'ts lld opco .prc.,. Sinrr.-f.mny dwdliura. St.G lic.ff.d d.y ar! cc lct for rwdvc or f.*.r childr.n5. Utiliry.crvt t5. St L lcllli.d groop horE. for ix c far.r Frson!7. Tanponry rral6tata officc and modd hotE8. Atbo(crue!
5-3-3 Th. folo?h! !E p.rmiir.d acessory ur.s h .n ..A-2" di{ricr:l. Ac.ory .fricllaurrl buildinf
2. C&l!t
t. Privr& n$lct
a- S?insins Dool
6. SLis7. H6c cuFtioort. OE dct9. lo.drid. ra
rO. hiv.r. t trrclt
' !. Sab..t.:A. Fronr yard: JO fRt.
B. R.ar r.rd: 50 f?f
C. Sirc Frd: l0 f.c.\6. Muinum Htishr:
A. Principd Strudurc: th.r. tori6/,O fGcr.B. AccGrory St udurl: ihrEc loris//O fc.r.7. Minimum Dnvcr.y S.p.rrtior:A. Colhcton 4m tccr
B. Ancri.l: 1,2,) f.cr
SECTION
'. 'RSP' SINCLE+AMILY RESIDENTIAL DISTX,ICT
5-5-l lNTEttT. Sin8L-fim0y rlsid.atid $bdivbbo..
5-5-2 ThG follol,inr us.s rI! Fmiatcd h .tl ..R.SF", di!rri:!:l. SirSlc-f.tnily drdlirst
2. Public rad priv.i. Aat sp&l. St rc Ec.n$d d.y (atE (lor.r for ndv. or fcr6 cfiildEn4. St tc [c.rt d poup han. !.rviru sir (r f.?cr lEnorls5. Uliliiy .Grvic..
6. Tanpor.r, tlrl .!lrt. orrlc! .d rlodd torE
5-5-3 Thc followin, .r. pcrmita.d .cc...ory u.ca h in ..RSF,, dinri:r:l. Cera8c
2. Srolir€ bo dingJ. S*itnmins pool
4. Tmnis coun,. Signs
6. Hom. crtDaiioo37. On doct
8. P.iv.rc t.iad
5-5{ Thc foloiiD!.,r conditiqrrt us h.n -RSF dkrici:l. Church.3
l. Priv.lc srrblcs, subirr to prod.io$ of thc tlorlc ordinarE3. R€cacltion.l b..dr bB4. Comm.rcill it bh riti r mitlimom lol siz. of fiv. lc16-
5-5-J Lor Rcqut rtcrl! lnd S.tb.cks. Tlr folo*in! minimum .lquiran6l.
sha[ bc ob!.w€d Dinrir sub.i.d ro edditioorl r.-qutcm.nls, .rccption! .!d hodific.dons t.r fonh in thL Odinane.l. ld aEr: lJ,o(D rqueE fcrr.2. Loa FronLlr: I f..r (crc.pt rh tolr frodio8 on . dt{.-!.c rh.llb. 90 fca in yi{trh .t dr buitdil|g i.ib.ct tim).3. Lor D.r'th: l5O f..r.4. Ma mum Loa Cot! a8c for z[ nrucrur.. and peycd .urfa.!s: 25%.5. Sdbacl.:
A. Front r.rd: $ f€cr.B. Rcar ,ard: 30 fc.r.C. SAc yrrd: l0 f.!r.6. Maximum H.irht:A. Pnncipal $ru.ru!: lhi.. srori.s/$ fc.i.B. Acc6lory Sarudu]!: ttlE roricsrl(} fc!i.
SECTION 6. .'R{" MIXED LOW DENSTTY RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTJ+l INTENT. SinStc-f.Dily ad .nr.tcd tEnd.otiet dGYdoFE 1i;-imum nn dcasily of four d*dtil|! u rr pq.s!.,42 Thc followint us.s.!! p€.miracd in rn ..R{" disiricr:l. Sinsl.-f.lsily drdlilsr2. Two-fanily d*dtinsr,. Public and priv.r. F b .rd op.a spc4. Croup homc slrvin! jr a tcr.r p.rtorr5. Slalc liccn'.d d.y c.I! c.rt6 for rrdvc or fcsa.childr.n6. Utiliry s.rvic..7. TcDor.ry ll l a.!. oftic. .nd Eodd hocE54.3 Thc follo*in8 &E p.mfu.d rcc..o.y n!c. h ar ..R.-a.' dild,id:l. Cr!t!
2. Stor4. buitdin!
3. S*immir8 poot
a. T6nb counJ. Sisrt
6. Hornc occutEtioa
7. Onc doct
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2. Bo.rdint ho0s..3. R.cr.ltionrl b.adr ht- 4. Priv.r. t!'lod,+5 Lot Rcquir.sat! ard S.rb..lt. Tb. fo[orht mhiirun rtqutrcmarsddl h. ob..rvrd in .ll -R{" Dirrid trlbi! b eddiriotr t ,qina;;.xc.ptioB
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- ltnrly dwGIinS.rd 50 fca fa rwo-f.rlity d?.[infr.3. Loa DOth: tso fc.r.il. MaimuE Loa corE.t for i.t dult -rd Fvld errf6: !oqt.J. S{ib.d!:A. Frora yrd: jO fc.t.B. R.r yrrd: :tO f.6.C. Sit. Frd: t0 fc.r.5. Muimum H.i!h.:A. Prin.iD.l SrruduE: .hrEG r.ori6/al, fca.B. Aa..tory Snu.ruE: or iory/l! fdsEcrIoN 7. ..R-E- MIxED MEDruM oei.rsrrv nesloersn*
6. Hil'" -7, oe aer
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7. Churchs
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SECTION 9. STAI. AGR
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t
IAND DEVELOP BNT APPLICATION
CIIY OF CEANEASSEN
690 Coulter Drive
Chanhassea, MN 55317(612) 937-1900
OVflNER:
ADDRESS
A€3r7zip code
TELE PHONE
-g&i Lra As
Zip Code7zu - a3 9Y'
PLlCANT :
ADDRESS '7 4,
TELEPEONE (Day timel C/3</:SC.cc-t
REQUEST:
Zoning District Change
Zoning Appea1
Zoning variance
)< zonino Text Anendment
-Iand Use Plan Anendment
Conditional Use Permit
Site Plan Review
Sketch Plan
Preliminary Plan
FinaI PIan
Subdivision
_ Platting
Metes and Bounds
Street,/Easement Vacat ion
hletlands Permil
PROJECT NAME
PRESENT I,AND USE PLAN DESIGNATION
REQT]ESTED LAND USE PLAN DESIGNATION
€al^g---
X r"r, PRoPosED I \)C.ooo
IA
LOCAT I ON \-l t QJ
REASONS FOR THIS REQTJEST
LEGAL DESCRIPTION (Attach legal if necessary )
-lrf
Planned Unit Development
PRESENT ZONING
REQUESTED ZONING
SIZE OF PROPERTY (
FILT INS TR U CT IONS :
Signed By
I
Dat e 1 7
Date
City of ctranhasse)
PL:;: ?'""r"pment Application
;;'gflttft ii*ii,'ffi td+*Jtu:r+ffi
ih i:i.i:':td{ff ,H."t'ii: ";,::.".ff"i,:l;:i::_$i:oI. certi ri es
\
Signed By
Appl i
F ee ownef
U
lff'::i;:;'3:"s"1:':ll-certiries that thdescribed. .his applic".i""-i"..,,ir:r|::;:::rni:r:i;"
Date Application Received
Application Fee paid
City Receipt No.
FILING CERTIFICATION:
* This Application w 'ff in"ii'iHr')fuTff*
CITY OF
EHANHISSEN
STAFF REPORT
f
P.C. DATE: Jan. 20, 1988
C.C. DATE: Feb. 8, 1988
CASE NO: 88-2 zOA
Prepared by: Dacy/v
Fz
C)
=(LL
E
lrJt
@
PROPOSAL:
APPLICANT: City of Chanhassen
To Amend the
Courses as a
Agr icul tural
Zoning OrdinanceConditional UseEstate District
Toin Permit Golfthe A-2,
PRESENT ZONING:
ACREAGE!
DENSITY:
ADJACENT ZONING
AND LAND USE:N-
s-
E-
w-
PEYSICAL CHARAC. :
2OOO LAND USE PLAN:
LOCATION:
WATER AND SEIIER:
zOA for
January
Page 2
Golf Courses
20, 1988
B ACKGROUND
This application was initiated by the city during tshe discussionof Mr. Pryzmusr application for a golf driving range, miniaturegolf course and indoor batting facility. Upon reviewing the
minutes of the Planning Commission meeting of April 22, 1987, theCity Council minutes of May 4, L987, and November 15, 1987, the
issue of whether or not golf courses should be permitted in the
A-2 District was discussed at length. The Commission generally
agreed that golf courses are an appropriate use in the rural
area. Therefore, this application is to finalize discussion on
whether or not golf courses should be permitted in the A-2
District.
ANALYS I S
Analyzing zoning ordinance amendments involve reviewing the rela-
tionship of the proposecl use to the zoning district's intent and
its compatj.bility with the permitted and conditional uses
included in that district.
I ntent
The intent of the A-2, Agricultural District is to "preserve the
rural character while respecting development patterns by allowing
single family residential ilevelopment". During the recent Zoni:rg
Ordinance review process, conditional uses were included in the
A-2 District which were logical extensions of agriculEural acti-
vities or io the case of contractorr s yards recognized existing
uses in Chanhassen. The former 1972 Zoni'.ag Orclinance permitted
goJ.f courses as a conditional use in tha! ordinance. The
existing Bluff Creek Golf Course was processeC under that ordi-
nance provision. Bluff Creek GoIf Course is indicated on the
City's Land Use P1an as PubIic/Serni-Publ i c . While obviously not
an agricultural activity, a golf course requires large land areas
with access to collector sEreeEs or minor arterials. Because
of its seasonal operation, the club house facilities are typi-
cally limited in nature and smaller size septic systems and wells
can service club house facilities. Because of the golf course's
seasonal use and larger acreage requirements, it is consistent
with the intent of the district by preserving a "rural character"
and not posing as a negative impact on residential properties.
Comparibi l it with Permitted and conditional Usesv
In terms of compatibility, a golf course can be evaluated as less
intensive than a contractorr s yard, wholesale nursery or a com-
nercial stabte in terms of noise, odors and aestheLic impacts.
However, a golf course's location can be quite important as to
traffic impacts on surrounding development.
ZOA for
Janua ry
Page 3
Golf Courses20, 1988
The Bluff creek Golf course receives access through a residentialneighborhood on Creekwood Drive. The golf .oor=.-r"" ;a-;;"center of the road improvement issue oi creekwood Drive as to hor"/much the golf course should be responsible for p;yi;;';";-creekwood Drivers improvement. The rocation or'-iir" -i"ii-.oo...
was_arso.a major factor in the review of the arurr cieei di""r"subdivision request which $ras approved by the Council-in ltircn,1996- This request consisted oi'tn.-..L.tion of ttrirteen--ii acrelots^along the golf.course property as well as the "i".iion'"tsix 2* acre rors adjacent ro pion"e. ir.ii. -ti,"i'. i"-I"-i"""tio.,that if rhe Bluff Cieek Golf cori".- "rO.i tted an "ppii".tiJi,today, the-city would require direct access to a collector road_wav insread of gaining access rhrough i- res iaeniiii -a"i"iop*".t.
Summa ry
The city councir requested the planning commission to evalute theappropriateness of solf courses in rhe A-Z pisiiict-;.;';;-;r"_vide some guidelinei as to their location. Given the currentstate of the ordinance, the aluff creek creens Golf course isnon-conforming. If expansion irrere to be proposed or i^piore*"ntmodifications to be proposed, a variance application would haveto be processed to allow a non-confoimi.rg o". to expand. Thecouncir-adopted the planning co*missioii" .""o. .ndations forstandards for driving ranges. Some of these condiiion"--u..-:r" tas appropriate. Therefore, it is rec;mmended that tne eiinningcommission consider amending tt. a_i-oiltrict to-je;;it-;;i;courses subject to the follovring conditions:
1. Access must be obtained from a collector or arterial streetas identified in Article VI , Section ZS.
2
3
Hours of operation sha11 be from sunrise to
Adequate septic system and welI facilitiesrn contormance with ordinance No. IO_8.
sunset.
shalI be provided
courses exist in ruralHi1ls golf course in Eden
Thefor Zoning Ordinance already provides for parking requirementsa golf course use.
Because of the land requirements,areas in other cofiununities. ThePrairie is an example.
RECOMMENDATTON
gol f
Cedar
Planninq staff recommends the planning Commission adopt thefollowing motion:
'The planning commission recommends approval 0f Zoning ordinanceAmendment Request gg-2 to amend the all, agricultural EstateDisrrict ro add golf courses as a condi tioiir -"."-"iu:".i'il
an"
zOA for Golf Courses
January 20, 1988
Page 4
following standards:
I. Access must. be obtained from a collector or arterial streetas identified in Article VI , Section 25.
2. Eours of operation shall be from sunrise to sunset.
3. Adequate septic system and well facilities shalI be provided
in conformance with Ordinance No. 10-B.
ATTACHMENTS
Planning Commission minutes dated April 22, 1987.
City Council minutes dated May 4, 1987.
City Council minutes dated November 15, 1987.
Copy of 1972 Ordinance.
Copy of Ordinance 80-E.
Copy of Lanal Use P1an.
1
2
3
4
5
6
{Commission tteeiin9
1987 - page 27
I
PlanningApril 22,
configuration
Commission for
AII voted in favor and motion carried.
Sieget moved, HeadIa seconded thatapproval of the Wetland Alterationconditions:
The Class A wetland shall beestablished at 75 feet from
Barbara Dacy presented
request.
o f the road r.rays tha t
rev iew.
that come before the planning
the Planning Commission recommendPermit il87-6 lrith the following
1 preserved by a conservationthe ordinary high water mark.
The applicant shall provide drainage easements ove! the pondingareas throughout the site and not illow any alteration to theareas.
SWI NGS RECREAT I ON , LOCATED ON THE NORTHWEST CORNER OF H I GHVIAY L co. RD.1I7, JOHN PRYZMUS,APPLICANT:
A. ZONING ORDIN ANCE AMEN DMENT RE QUEST TO AMEND THE A-2 ,AGRICULT U RALESTATEDISTRICTTO ALLOW GO LF DRIVI NG RANGES M INIATU RE GO LFCOURSESAND INDOOR BATTINGJU I LDI NGS AS A COND I T IONAL US E.
easement
)
AND
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT REQUEST FORrffi
the Staff report on the Zoning Ordinance Amendment
A
E UILDI NG
GOLF DRIVING RANGE,MINIATURE
c.WET LA ND ALTERATION PERMIT REOUEST TO FILL IN A CLASS A WETLAND.
Conrad: Where else would a golf driving range be in the ciEy?
not
goI f
Ci ty
listed in any oEher commercialortvrng range is not aof Chanhassen.
??"yt. Currently_a golf driving range isdrstricts so basically a golf coursL orpermitted or conditional use within ttre
*rr*wun+l
Al1 voted in favor and motion carried.
Elhart: can you exprain lrhat item number 2 in your recomnendation rneans.
orsen: what they are providing, in what they carr a storm erater easement,rrm just naking sure that theyteiiniiery provi.a. ".""."rr[" ove! that andthat those are protecred areai ;;-th;y ;".,t be attered.
Erhart: Altered?
Olsen: Such as mowing the lardn.
B.
PIanningApril 221
(
Commission Meeting
1.987 - Page 28
Conrad: Can you refresh my memory why thatwhere we specifically said we did not vranthave a hard time recalling that.
is?
tha t som e
area
notes
and I
area.
those
Irm looking atin agr icu l tura I
Dacy: What happened was, during the zoning Ordinance review processseveral times in rg85 and 1986. The Bruff creek gorf course now isconforming use as a golf course but we do recalr d-iscussion that thecommission did have probrems with a gorf driving range in ihe rurarYou didn't think it was appropriate. It created sorne traffic alongEoads so it $rasn't approved as a part of the new ordinance itrus ttreapplication.
conrad: . John, you are the applicant. specificarly John we're tarking onthe zoning and before you telI us what your range Jnd what yourconfiguration would rook like. r don,t knoe, hoi r can limii you to just onesubject- You are asking for a zoning change or you are asking to amend the -ordinance based on a project that you,ve got. r don't want to review theproject yet. r realry do vrant to review ihe concept. of the three thingsthat you've asked for, in generar in the city of cianhassen. can you ke6pus away from your project for a whiLe? Do you have anything to tell usabout driving ranges in Chanhassen? Persuade us that we should have drivingranges in Chanhassen is what my challenge to you would be.
we met
a non- -
John Pryzmus: on page 8, basically rny feelings in the chaska Herard is anad r developed. r spent a lot of time with the people pranning the drivingrange out there now. Irve been in front of Ehe City Council about teromonths ago and at that time rre didnrt have the total plans and the J.ayout of-the new facility. It had been approved originally five years ago for adriving range and I never did open it. I worked on it giadually over t.helast 5 years and being thaE the little one I had in town, there was nodevelopment on it, I never had a reason to open the new one. I brought inpeople from Chicago, John Jacobsford colf and we lrenE and looked at everydriving range in the Twin cities area and there are a lot of driving .un!"r -that arenrt kept up very werl and a lot of them are just an intern use f6r apiece of property until you put it into an industrial park or whatever. youarenrt going to buy an industrial park for driving ranges but you do buy adriving range for industrial parks. With this project, I'm nol proposi-ng it-to be used as an industrial park do$rn the road. It's a half a mittiondollar project that should enhance the recreational facilities for thecommunity. In all the response Irve had, they are LqgZ for the project. I -feel by getting community support, I feel that I want to show the Counciland the Planning Commission that not onlydo I want to make a businessventure out there, I,ve already spent a lot of money buying the land. Ibought it on a contingency that r could have a driving range then that wasapproved so I guess what I want to do noer. I originally proposed aminiature golf in my original proposal and that was turned down but r.rha t rwant to do is make it f i nanc iar ry feas ible for me to do it as an i nvestment -and also make it a good thing for the community. With the nature of TH 5and there is noE rearrya traffic problem. These numbers might not ar1 beright but you have approximately 2O,6AO cars going by there i day so E.herewonrt be a traffic impact. They would be coming off of TH s and 9oin9 down
{
(
Commission MeeEinq
1987 - page 29
PlanningApril 22,
100 yards on a major col,lector road whicb is tar.
conrad: John, r think you are -getting into the specifics of the project andrrm.realry trying to focus on tlie ordina-nce itserf right now. we have torook at the ordinance and say does it make sense t;;ii;; a-.irring ranges?Does it make sense to ar10w some buirdings out there and you can come backin a few seconds to talk on the "p".-rti." but anything else that you canshare with us in terms of, I knoi they are real closely tied together.
John pryzmus: r guess maybe if r courd just answer any questions you havebecause if r start rambl ing on and on i_-.igr,t s"f L;-f i=rit-o tn"t. rf rhereare some questions as far as if it wilr be compitiu:.e-. lrv iershuors outthere, r have a sroup home ro the-r;;t;i;;';;;-;;r^;;";ir.;,yards to thenorth of me. Dale Green has a farm to tne south oi ;;:-;;ry named Larryvan Deveire has the land to the east of me and r i"r'x"i to ni. and he feersitrs commerciar. one of ttre gentremlri -rr".., John Hennes".y, n" has the randto the northeast corner of mJ so u.sicar-r-f 'w;;';";;;;"r"=r''ao uo by gerting::Ir-on.ity -sy.pport .is not set a precedence in arl0wing any kind of commerciarprolect. Like Barb .stated, a d-riving range needs a rot of rand. rt isnrtlike putting a gas station'oot it....' -tne miniatu." gori uno the battingcages, the three of the-m brend together to make it riianciirry feasiblef irst of aI1 but Ehey also ,o.[. li;;;e pro jecr f or rhe people inchanhassen' r'ike vou-just had on-vorf --up, each deveropei gives park space.They put in basebail diamonds. in6-citv .is. acguiring pioperty to add threemore diamonds iust a mire to tne-eist-Ji ti,i" p;"j;;i.'-rriJv "r. putringI isI,.t.". on the plrk because there is such a demand for a recreationalfacirities and as a grivate a.r.rop.r,- ihere won,t u" ""v.icv money oranything Iike that. -rhis wili U" -i-piir.te venrure so r.thinr it would jusEbe in askins Eoo with whar 9p9
-itv 5ii..av is doing !rirh rherr parks andwith their recreational facilitiesl
Roger Schmidt: I live out in that area. I guess my thinking is that Ihaven't seen a driving range yet in the metropolitai .r.a ti,-a r think is adef inite asset as far. as
. aesthetics go 01 . ttre- community-.- i'i,,. v are usuallylocated in more of a h.usine"= "..u o'.-ritl a gotf ";;;;;.ni "r"n a golfcourse is stuck back in a corner "orlpti.ce wtiere they ";;;; tha' visibre.Being a resident of that u..", i,* lo*L-rhat concer-n.i tn"t'we,II probablvend up with a very simirar situation that y_ou t u". ,ltr.,-.'6iz"or tn" otherdriving ranges and 'm very much "on""in"a 1r"1
-tt*'"t."ipii.a that I don,tsee the city doing much policing in tne a.ea of takins-".iJ-"t what,s outthere right now. That's been, ior s"r"..r years, -iin,ia -ioi ia,, nothing buta junk pile and werve. had commen.t.s from people ort-oi-iori and rn tovrnasking us r',hat'|s going on over there and'itis r<inJ # ","'fu.i.""ing for us Eohave to admit rhar we're living ir, "n-.i.. thar lookl lji"*ii.a. I thinkthat particuLar spot, 1s f-ar .J a.l"ing-ranges within ti,.-City, I thinkthere probably are spors for tfrem nul inar [arti-cul;, ;;;,-i would rhink youIook at it as your wes tern ga teway i nto town and r think ytu "norra look atthat as something that y.ou don,t iant to b.uird up witrr thi'njs that probablvaren't going Eo be complimentary to Ehe cit-y. itr'l;;"'^lo"E""ia" whetherthar is a comprimentary.acrivirv ;; ;;t and ouviouslv 1n" orier thing tharI'm concerned abour is rhe .o*r"."iuiization .r -it.-ii"iiili. r.,s nor
r{
PIann ing
ApxiL 22,
(
Commission MeeEing
1987 - Page 3g
aLlosred. as far as your zoning now and I think people kind of go by thezoning issues when they decide to rocate- there "nd you donrt arbitrarilychange them so r think you should give that serious consideiation arso.
Headla moved, Emmings seconded to crose pubric hearing on the zoningOrdinance Amendment. AII voted in favor and motion cirried.
Headra: r don't understand why having a driving range, aod the battingthing and the miniature golf is diffeient but r don'i see why a drivin!range would be of any benefit. r think there are several doisnside asp6ctsof it but r don't see any upside aspects except the person running thlrange. I think the people surrounding that m1gtrt sutfer.
Headra: Then if r look at the rocation, then r hronder about Garpin Brvd..
-I ]tn on.that road quite a bit. r ride a bike on that and right now, r donrtlike the r.ray the cars are on there. Do you have any iilea hdw much trafficcomes and goes from one of those facilities?
Conrad: Yourve got to consider themDriving ranges are used.
Siegel: I canrt reca1l
from the A-2 district.
Iike a golf course. people use it.
discussing our reasons for excluding golf courses
Pryzmus: rrm sure there will be some major amount of traffic. r don,t knov,what you consider major but most of it 'rlrr be coming off of TH 5 so theywould be coming off TH 5 down l0a yaxds and turning in there. The trafficstudy we do have a parking lot schedured for 16 spices. we overbuilt theparking lot basical,ly. r wourd say a ful1 driving range wourdn't have morethan 3 or 4 cars at a time. That's comparing appies to oranges because that-was a temporary thing and basicarly the people wourd want soiething to dodown on West 79th Street vrhere this will be a business that will be
ma i nta i ned
Dacy: I canrt pinpoint the date. We did go back and Look through thefiles. It was a fairly short discussi.on.
Siegel: What $ras the justification or the reasoning behind us or staffrecommending the exclusion from the A-2?
Dacy: The way it was proposed, it was risted because it was consistent vrithour prior ordinance. Hovrever, it $ras the specific recommendation to havegolf courses and driving ranges removed.
siegel: rn essence what we're doing is removing any possibility of having agol-f course or driving range in the City of Chanhassen.
Dacy: Thatrs correct. The Bruff creek gorf course is now non-conforming.
Siegel: We1l, that doesn'E make sense to me.If somebody came in with a plan for a beautiful It just doesnrt make sense.
goI f course in the rolling
t
(Planning Commission Meet i ngApril 22, 1987 - page 31
hilrs of chanhassen, rrm sure the city council and the city planningconmission would jump at the chance to invite ti,.* in-,rith open arms todevelop that as such. rn rieu of ihat, r rook it'-'ttut"pi.ce of property andr guess
'm new to the hi.story of it and r gr.="-ti; ippricant has beenremiss in some respects in hi-s forro.w throulh in ,tiJi" has been planningfor thar. rn all due respects, r ltrin-r *.;'h;;; ,pi."".r, rhis as a newapplication for such use 'and rboi it it in thit-iig'hil- r think it wirr bean improvement on that corner ana lo me the rocati-on is marketabre as adriving range and as a miniatr.. qotf course. - i-u;;-;" favor that. unlessthere is more stronger objections 'io.granting u "onJitional use permit inthe Zoning Ordinance, I would favor it.
Emmings: r agree r^rith Bob 1068 that r ca-!'! imagine why we wourdn,E havesorf courses and dr-iving. ranges as a conditionii';;; 'i; rhe A-2 atistrict. rdon't have any p-robren ,iitn [tr"t- r agree wittr ttre stJf that miniaturegorf courses an_a
.r:a-oo_r_ batting buirdilgs """tr- u"'in"i'J aon,t belong outthere and belong in a commerci.ir aistri6t. trren -tra"inq said that, r guessputting a miniature sorf course *ith 6;;.";;i;;"^;;i.ngs thar are here,the drivins ranse and whatevei a ;;_i_;;tJ;; ;;;;;'.rreen business arrseems to be pre.ty cohesive and make slnse in tti" p.-iti"urar project so rrmhaving some probrems with this- -i don-'r-have ;;y i;;;;," with rhe drivinqrange being a conditionar use in 1ne a-2. r don't ttint tt".. ought to b6,in condition r, . I don't agree ttr.t- ir,"y ought to uL Jrt.r.ng colrectors. rthink they shourd onry be on "ri"iiur"-. oi *.io.-st;;;r", r think we $rant::-1.?i-.^11! yu{.rowards *aior roiJwuys. r tninx rhe iecond condition isvery rnportant that they onry be operated from suniiie to sunset. r thinkthat's adequate in the "o*."i ti*e-.na r think the Iights wourd be a rearsrobrem for anyone who lived .;;;J 11.- -;;;;;U"^Jjl uri r eor.Erhart: r disagree. regarding the issue of whether we shourd alrow gorfcourses and these things in lfre A_2 area. I agree with Bob. I think wereal1y overrooked sonelhi.ng rn gori courses and r don,t know enough that wecan lump practice.areas in that-oi not so r don't have a strong feerinqabout rhat' r do have.3 gtrong r-;iing .roui uuirJing""- in rhe A-1 and A-2areas' These metar buildings ind tirey tend to be the area that acts as atransi'tional area fron agrilurtui.i- to the residentar. rn south chanhassenwhere peopre have built ihese *"lui ruiLainq" ooi in-ih.-.ountry and I don,tknow for what reason, where tt,"y-rir"" not bden part of " au.,o homestead,they are rearry an eyesore. eve-n though "o*" oi tnl.-ur. werr kepE up, thevdon,t f ir =o ,t.l^:.:=_!:.! fo.that, i w-our-d real usul;=i, rhar barrinspractice Ehing requires merar or any xina oi a m;,j;;^.;;;."ariar type, anykind of a non-farm building o. u noi_house, I a".if -tt i,parr or rhe A-2 or A-1. r rhink iL shourd'..t-u" ;.;;'* ti.ou^n_ltu?i.r"..
r agree r.rith steve entirely as far as the. aii"i.g ;;;;". r guess as long asit'is on TH 5 wirh the corrlcr ,;;; l. majo-r arre'ri"r','l guess it,s okay.Certainty rhe one_ I!" ,?hl. .; tris1 wesr of _tn" CiuV
,he-re, as rong as therewasn't any buildings and the griss was movred, I aiai,i'-tt rnk it was aneyesore at all. Regarding the building_ on the -. i;;. iuiu, it we,re soino toput a drivins range in heie, you probaEry have ;;;;;':;.e smarl buirdinoto keep the Eractor and stuif' ort J.tn.- rai.n so i'-n;;"" I urouldnrt mind ismall r"ooden garage or something just to maintain ti.Jiina of Ehing but
i
t
certaiory not a permanenE industrial type building. r agree the hours oughtto be sunrise to sunset. The second concern, r think in the A-2 area is foemphasize that we do noE want retair business in the A-2 area. ror exampie,-r can't have a retail nursery on my nursery farm. r can have wholesare tut'you canrt have retail. Again, reflecting on that, we have to be realcaEefur if we're going to use it at all, I think it shourd be on TH 5. That-is the only appropriate. place to have this in the city. so the rest of thecommission can think about that retail issue and we'vL got to be realcarefur about that. we consistently said we do not want retail businessactivities down there. r like 4 that certainly it should not be within 500-feet of a single family residence. our whoLesale nursery and contractoryards basically have to fit $rith that rule.
Conrad: f have nothing more to add. I think golf courses and drivingranges are appropriate in Chanhassen. I don't think that buildings out inthat area, speci.fically indoor batting buildings, is what I vrant lo see but -to use the land that $ray, I think is appropriate. I would vote for thattype of a use in a A-2 district. My only comments other than that are weshould have, if we make a motion in favor, somebody might want to work the
word golf course in. We don't need to and maybe a golf course is a wholedifferent set of circumstances. I don't know. The other part that I vrouldIike to see is an intent statement in terns of why werre allowing this and Iguess one of the intents that I would see as a conditional use, is tominimize impact on neighbors in terms of noise, traffic and lighting. Ithink we need some kind of intent statement along erith this if we do chooseto alLoe, this as a conditional use.
Emmings: f wouldnrt like to see golf courses included tonight for tworeasons. Eirst of all, it's not in front of us and that always makes me
uncomfortable but secondly, Staff has obviously thought through the kinds of-conditions we should impose on a driving range, if we're going to allow thatas a conditional use and I don't see that they have had the opportunity tothink through conditions for goLf courses as a conditional use and maybethat ought to come back as a separate item.
conrad: That's a good point.
*At this this point a motion was made and the following discussed occurred.
miniature golf courses on purpose?Conrad: Steve, did you leave out
Emmings: Yes.
Siegel: Does the miniature golf course, in the eyes of us here, reflect asa retail establishment? Would that be the objection to including thatminiature golf course as a conditional use? It borders in the area ofretail establishment and service recreational type business.
Emmings: The way I think about a miniature golf thing fits into a
commercial area. Itrs compact. You can't put a driving range in just acity lot. You need some room. Miniature golf courses donrt bother me in
(
Planning Comrnission MeetingApriL 22, 1987 - page 32
{!
Plann ingApril 221
Commission Meet i nq1987 - page 33
the City, they bother me to thinkdoesn't seem to fit at all.about them being out in the A_2. It just
Siegel: I guess I tend to think of it as.a- similar type of use to a golfdriving range especially _in co.njunction with it. ir i!-*r.r" to tark aboutspecifics, put a bunch-of -minialure gorf "oo.="" z-,ori!""jp"rt, maybe thatwould be a little bit different but ie're tarking about is a proposedcomprex here. Not one being here and one being i mire-aown the road andanother one a mile down the road all in the a-i district "o r think it,s alittre bit different when you'ire rooking at it;s ; p-u-.xug. as just onething.
Emmings: Let me ask -i-n that regard, retrs say that we have passed thisZoning Amendment to arlow it as I conditionar'use,. -ir we-iJ." somehor"persuaded that a miniature_ gorf prace fit in with this parlicutar drivingrange project, could we allow iti
Pityt. what r hear you saying- is that you feel that the driving range andthe.miniature gorf course reitly shouri act together and not a stand aroneminiature golf situation so if you want.ed to p-hrase y;;; ;a;.o"ar in theframework that golf driving ranges subject to these conditions. Miniaturegolf courses as an accessory use to the gorf driving ."nga, that rrourd be anoption- You couldntt. haye a- niniature golf course *itr,oJt'" ilriving iu"g"-along with it. If thatts i{hat you're saying.
sieger: r guess to me it makes sense. The whore idea of having a miniaturegolf course, especially when you think about fathers and mother-s going outto a gorf driving range and they've got a place for their kids to -.p"rid
"o..time. rt's sort of a naturar. r,m iurpriled there aren,t more combinationsIike that around.
Emmings: rf rde courd, r guess wha! r would Like to do since r made themotion, is Leave my motion out there the way it is and then maybe you canmake a second motion to talk about miniature golf as an accessory use to thedriving range. would that be alright?
Dacy: Yes, and then you should Look at what a miniature gorf course i.s. rtdoes require more rights. you have the windmills and the people to hit theball through and so on so you have to consider those visuar aspects also.It is different Ehan a driving range.
Erhart: r r,rould like Eo. see us go back and spend some more time on this oneand define it a littre bit better. r'!m really against putting anything inthe A-2 area that visually is not consistent with either resibent-ial oiagriculture and I think you can make a driving range consistent trithagricurtural but r think we ought to define whaE the landscaping is going tobe. Buirdings in some kind of Eerms. what buildings can be put on ther6arrve seen driving ranges with LG foot high fences and then in a coupre yearstheyire falling down.
Emmings: Tim, donrt r.re retain comprete control over that when it,s under
(
Plann ingApril 22,
Commission Meetino
1987 - page 34
our conditionar use? ThaE to me is the whole reason that it should be inthere as a condiEionar use rather th;; pernitted use because rre retain a
i3rt";t.:"[:ror over the plan ana tne iariaicapins una *t.t-Jr,. buildinss are-
Headla: I doubt tha thas to get pretty bad.
you have that much control over a conditional use. IL
Emmings: No. When the plan comes in Dave, hre look atgets buiLt and we say we-only affor-Vou-to build it ifIandscaping this wav. rf you sto, ui-in" ptan for Eheto build and we appiove it.
Headla: frm referring to Timrs comments.
it before anyth i n9you do thebuilding yourre 9o1ng
:l$#:
".".'.Ifi iSllt* about maintainins it arter it's buirt. rharrs
Headra: r think T i-n made the conment very welr in that a conditional usepermit is verv hard to police ;l-;;;;".. r think a good exampre of that isthe horse ridino faEm. - once they weie in there and there was a dustprobrem, and r fas involved ,i-lrr'tiiJf -to some extent, it,s hard to say youpeople created tr* oI_"a!: 9r::.- r-ii-s- pretty hard ro shut them down because _
ii:l:.is norhing ro enforce that. oncl tney were in there, they were in
Dacy: The advantao.""6iti""1'IlE"illi,l"-:::.ffi?:Huo::i:::i"r:::":n..l.".u, j:T".."iji"i"."restrictions in our current brdinance and that,s the purpose of thisamendment process is_to estabrl"tr t-tos. type of "ondiii;;;.- rf you wantedto add no metar buidringi ;;-;;;';."i;Trivins ranges or a sussesredcondition, just authorii"-" !rIiai'.n'al' au*" t.ickets or wharever, canrr::;::t':33 ;;:;,.e'.Ti; ,.'.::l;: *;'-iot vou have that .rl-rrtv to esrabrish-
Emmings: There are two other things. A.conditionar use permit can berevoked if Ehev don'! |ivg ,p- t;-i1".,-:ondition-s.. ur. eryimus has alreadvfound that out on one occu=ion. thatll- worked here. T; ";; that. a golfdrivins ranse or sorf course -i"".r;f iir i; ;;';:i,. *;;":o,.ru, ,.,."Dannlng all drivino .ranges and that doesn,t mafe sen="-;;-*;. They are a _:;Jr"'"'",.Til:""'"':"*j,:,"":Xii'ili iII':,"i-;;;"y;oiv Juii'p,. on anyrhere
;:I"'ji:.:t^r,"ri#.I.irrru",1 ike to see orher condirions in rhar oEher rhan what
:::::li..Xi':"""t1'":'-1i lor?i!rtn" zonins ordinance amendmenr no!,, nor Ehe
Dacy: yes.
(
PlanningApriI 22,
Commission Meeting
1987 - page 35
a
Erhart: we could put it i! thg zoning ordinance so we have driving rangesare perm i tted as rong as the crub hou-se is kept to . is-a'ol -*.
".n put thatin there if we want and one storage shed. yoi courd uaa-lto". as part ofthe Zoning ordinance. on the othei hand, r guess if all weire arrowing isthat the driving range it vrouldn't make any economic sense to put much morethan that on it. Just .a smarl garage and imalr crubhouse.- lrayue it erouldpolice itserf. The o.ther thind r w-ould be more inclinlaio go ar.ong with isif -!re actuarry restricted it t; tH 5 ox TH zL2 but r wirl not vote for it ifthis can be put on TH r01 or Lyman Blvd.. r just think that,s dead wrong.
Headla: What are we really voting on nor.r?
conrad: we're voting on an ordinance change and as stevers motion said, heis recommending that gorf driving ranges be a conditionar use in the A-2district. Werre not talking about .lo6n,s proposal norrr. We're talkingsimply about, is it approgriate to altoer diiving ranges in Chanhassenbecause right now you can't have them.
Headla: So if we $rere to say no, weOrdinance says as is. That does notgetling a conditional use?
don't want any of this. Weprohibi t anyone from coming
do
in
vrha t, the
and
Conrad: They canrt get a conditional use because it'sThere is no way to apply for a driving range right nor.r.
prohibited right no$r.
HeadIa: It is explicitedly prohibited?
Dacy: Yes. The use is not allowed in any district.
Conrad: But what werre saying in this requestconditional use but Dave, nobody can come intoJohn wants to build one and he,s got to have usright now if he's to build anything.
Dacy: rf r can make one nore comment before you take action on that motion.on the colrector and arterial condition, it concerns me if you do rimit itto just two highways or to an arterial because to me that construes that youcan only get access from that arteriar highway. we wouldnrt want to .re.i"a driveway situation off of TH 5 so the benefit of having a collector inthere, in this particular situation, is that you cao have access of themajor street. AII the streets in the rural area are collecEors or arterialsanyway but r think we shourd preserve the arterial to keep that frow throughtraffic and not aIIow addition interruption.
is, we will al low it as atorrn right now and build one.effect Ehe Zoning Ord i nance
Erhart: 9lhat about stating within 7Ag feeE offrom...TH 5 or TH 2L2. Have access
Dacy: You are saying more of a location?
Erhart:
business Yes exactly. What you're talkingout in the rural area and I think about is putting a retailthe onl-y place you want to do
Commission Meeting
1987 - page 35
that is on TH 5 ox TH 2L2.
Dacy: Then in that case r guess r wourd recommend that you rook at amendinc-number r to rocation near an arteriar street with access- t" "-."r r"J;;;';;"=arterial. Again, it aIl depends on iE's location.
Erhart: rt could be a corlector but as rong as it was on TH 5 0x TH 2L2.The access points can be on the collector.
((
Pl ann i ngApril- 22,
Dacy: Itor L ,5gg?
is subjective because where do you draw the 1ines? At 5Ag, L,gOg
a
Emmings: Whatfor ingress and
if we said location
egress?on an arterial with access to a collector-
that be part of the conditional use instead of the Zoning
of the conditional use wiII allow you to look at the
got Pioneer Trai1 and TH I0l and Lyman Blvd. are aII
Siegel: Wou ldn't
Ordinance?
Dacy: Yes, the benef i tindividual case.
Erhart: But you, vearterials.
Einmings: No- My motion is going to reave that in and rr11 telr you why.
Conrad ! Leave what in?
Emming-s: rt'is going to leave in a condition that witr state that it wilr berocated on an arterial with access uo a Lotrector for ingress and egress and-the reason is, if someone comes in and our ord inance already says they canonry rook at places arong arteriars, ws-'re going to have a rot r.ess troubrev'ith those peopre th.an ii they come in ana say, okay r want it over here and-your Ordinance doesn't say I &n't.
Dacy: As the motion is on the froor now, item r- is rocation on an arterialstreet as identified in Article VI, Section 25.
Conrad: Steve, do you $rant to amend that?
Emmings: yes. Again, r think it should be l.cated on an arteriar streetwith access to a collector fo! ingress ind egress. I guess erhat ererresaying is r,re don't want- them iust -anywtrere iri ttre ag.i"riiiiur district. we$'ant them on major roadways b-u t we a'on'i want their driveway coming ontothat major roadway. We wint them like here, on a corner wh!re they,ve gotaccess to a cor.rector so the turn can be made off of ri-s"on-.o carpin andthen get in and out on Galpin ."" tf,"V-..en,t actually turning off thatarterial- Thev don't- have their driv'eway on lhe .i#.i"T^lrt we wanc themlocated on major roadways rather E[";'l;t scattered anywhere.
iCommission MeeEinq
1987 - page 37
PlanningApril 22,
Siegel: Now wherewe're in discussion
Conrad: Tha t'smotion on your
discussion?
are we Mr. Chairman. Wetve had a motionstage and he wants to make an amendment
anC a second andto his motion?
r ec omm end
A-2
TH 212 and
leads to TH 5
correct so I withdraw my original second and second yourchange steve just to gel thii going. i" tir"." anymore
Erhart moved, Headra seconded to amend the motion to rimit the golf drivingranges must be ad'jacent to either TH 5 0r TH 2r2 and access must be from acorlector or an aiterial which leads io-tH 5 or TH zrz.- -eiirart, Emmings andHeadla voted in favor and Siegel and Conrad opposed th; u;;;;*.nt, andmotion carried.
Emmings moved, Conrad seconded that the planning Commissionto amend the zoninq Ordinance to a11or., driving ;."S;;-l;-l;"district as a conditional use ,itf,-lf." iotforing conditions:
t.
2. Hours of operation shall be from sunr I se
,l
The location is limited to being adjacent to TH 5 andaccess must be from a collector or in arterial whichox ,tH 212 .
Provision of ad3quate parking areasplan in conformance with Artlcle VII
and
I.
to sunset -
submission of a l and scap i ng
4 No site shatl be
res i dences .
Iocated within 5qg feet of single family
All voted in favor except Headla who opposed.
Headla: The reason
si tuations that canrespect to both the
being that I think there are far too many negativeshappened as compared to the upside advantages. Inadjacent landowners and the City.
Conrad: John we'll bring you back on board. We,re going to open up thepubric hearing for the second stage of this. which is-*rr.i" foo are askingfor a conditionar use per;nit. yoi, u.. asking ror u goir--a.'irrr.ng range.Barbara, because we have turned down a miniat-ure gord cour; and/ox battingbuilding, shoutd John conrinue to pursue and pres6.t hi;-;;;posal in furr.?
Dacy: I think so.
Pryzmus: Basicarry, financiarry r canrt even proceed, by taking ouE theminiature gorf and the indoor activities, financially foi me, it makes itimpossible. what you basical.ry did was Eake away the fou;;"iion and thewalls and yourre giving me the roof so r canrt eriter into a contractuaragreement with the City to spend 9300,006.qA to basically make a beautifuldriving range. r ar-ready have the driving range sprinr:.Lr systems arreadyin- The tee area is already buirt. The green! arL arready 'done. Thesandtrap is there- ?he crassified parking tot that we orig'inarry was agreed
aCommission Meeting
1987 - nage 38
Planning
ApriL 22,
upon f-ive -years ago is in anc r need to do some minimar grading to open itup. So vrhen you mentioned that the miniature golf, tf,ll-i" a sportscomprex' Not just a temporary use driving .rng5. tir" *iniut"re gorf as yor-see on r-494 0n the strip where it's arl concrJte u.ra .rso-in exc6rsio; --
where they have all rock, now on my developmental pfan *e are usingapproximate.ly, r haven't walked .ni m".=ured it ali ort, uut for the battinFcages and the miniature gor.f, we're using witir pa i[i ng -i"iI*n".E iioona-i-",acres. 5 to 6 acres- in a commercially zoned area wouid make it rin"nclairvimpossible, especiarly when you buir<i a buirding ttrat s goi.,g to conformwith all the buildingi in ttr6 inausiiiar. p.rL. -aoi g"tti.g'-i."k i."ri.i i"-going to be nice for the c-ommunity, as Roger said, ii is p;rt of the gatewalfroin the west- with -the randscape- archite-ctu; p1'.." th"i;" have submittedand this wiII al1 be done througi tne City, we rill Ue aaainq anyrrhere from _4 to 8 foot berms throughout th6 miniature golf. they wili be maintained b1a neighbor out there- i have a full time manager hired to run it. A fulrtime grounds keeper. He will ue ttrere s days i ru.i,-o. lor whatever iti.akes- The trees, we $rilr basicalry have u! lightini ". "ri the berms withthe shurbs. There are, even though it hasnrt been maintained as anarboretum right now, most all the- trees are planted. There wirr be anotheradditional 100 some-.:"": p.Ianred. -iippr".iute your ;;,i;g to aIIowdriving ranges but.r don't-know irhat yo'u want me to sign in a conEractuaragreement to do what when r can't hav6 basicarly tro-tii.a" of what r'mproposing. The buirding itserf and wheie it's situated, this pran was draw.-up before we decided where the on-site septic system ,"irrJ g" and irrith theadditional serbacks,_rhe buildins "in-u"-i"i-r.'.i-l'is";";;.= with the bankbeing taken down 10 feet and the -berm coming up 4 feet to thi= buildingwould absoluterv, that'!s 14 feet in it=Lrr. and the buirding ls only 15 feet.hiq!. . No it goes from 14 feet to 15.8 basically with a flat roof. Thebuirdinq would be alr cedar on trre-outsiae. tlie roof i"-*ui"r but when rinsurate it, it wourd. be like a co*p.o-roor. There is a neighbor that li.ves-south on TH r01 that.is-getting " pJi". together for me now so the buil,dingt^tould not be a tin shed. fn tiis 'u..i th.i. is permittea use. In fact, Ihave to get f inancil.s gn:h9-!uilding so I would have to come to the City to_get a building permit to build a cont-ractor's yard, a nursery, a hog farm orwhate-ver. . r'm going to have to do someliring witn ir.rl pi"p.ity and thebuildinq is already there so r ao n"u"-to do something wiin it and r justfert tirat for the community and the neighuors, with ait the J.andscaping. rt-used to be a tree farm so there are alreldy 360 some trees, I think the tr.ro.the miniature golf and t.he driving .unq" ur. just a naturai. people aregoing to come out' If you have a riy -"r,i'iar"n,. how many people say, what can -we do mommy or what can rre do? ttere,s nothing to ao in 6h1nhu"="n. That,sthe biggest thing ever since I've been here for 13 years, there,s nothing todo in this to,'n' Here we have no booze. we have basicarly no noise. Golfbal1s donrt make any noise- we have no iust probrem. we r6a11y have noproblems other than something that should be nice for the community. Thecost of the building in the Jentrar business district, r:ust sord a pieceof Land that this wourd_basicarry ue ttrl only place in chinhassen that itcould go right now and that tana iith the uuiraing that it wourd take, wouldcost a couple milrion dorlars. Financialry you c6uld n.";;';o thaE projecthere so the citizens of chanha"=;;--;;;;;.have this project. The rocation _out there, being that it is on a major highway. tt'is-not conoucirre to
\
(
Plann i ngApril 22,
Commission Meet i ngL987 - page 39
estate homes. When you have 20rOAe cars driving by every day, everyoneknovJs what the land, I paid S4,gqq.gg per acre for 5 years ago when the landwas going for a 10t more because peop; aren,t buying i.t for farmland. rdid buy it on a contingency that i c6urd have trre'arivinq-iung. so by notbeing able to show you what...we're using pictures ana iimensions fromcourses in california and Florida and r want this to be the nicest and wetrthought out miniature gorf course. rf you've err". priyea--mini-putt ;;.r-i;Minnetonka, we measured that out and wanted to at tlasi have the trees andshurbs and greenery th-a! they have. we arenrt proposing iny elephants orducks or geese or anything that's going to rook -ba6. l -wani it to be fun.we're going to do a lot of underground things with pvc. iittr. kids likewhen. the balr disappears and then it comes up. The mini-putt, to get backto what mini-putt and maxi-putt is, a mini-pritt for kids inywtrere from 4 or5 years o1d up to 9 or ro. you take them to a real tought i.,i.,iutr."- joir--cours-e. and they get very. discouraged. Everybody likes io do good so itwould be a real interesting little course lut ttieir ball alwalis winds up ina good- spot so they can score good but it won't be interesting enough foryour 11, 12, 13 and your adults so the maxi-putt wourd be that. r'm tryingto get something for the whole famiry. rhe Latting cages, i oon't know ifany of you have ever had chirdren in iittte League tut itre worse thing thatcan,happen is when your rittle guy strikes out twice in a row and he com esbacK cry 1ng- when r was in the Jaycees we bought one batting machine f orthe cAA but there just isn'!t enough tine for u1l th" littre kids to use thatone batting machine. The building itserf wourd be basicarry not seen frofilthe highway. Right now, in a farm zoned area, you can nuiit basicatlywhatever you want for a hog farm, dairy farm, wfratever. I \,rant to have alot.nicer bui-1ding than that._ rt,s going to be totalry screened but bytaking away, like r say, the foundation. r appreciate -your motion to illowthe driving range.
Dacy: civen their acrion, Ehe next item on the agenda is literally aconditional use permit for a driving range. you have a coupre of -options.
You can withdraw that apprication right now so they would nlt "...y out thereview of the driving range and the matter would just go on to council todetermine the ordinance amendment but if they do lrlow-the driving ,u.,qe-anaeverything erse, it will have to come back and go through the pran ..rr-i"r.so, do you want them to carry out the review jus! for the driving ..ng" o'iare you withdrawing your application at this point?
Pryzmus: r want the driving range but what r,m saying is r canrt reallyenter into any contracts if r only have the driving rJng". r appreciateyour motion for the driving range.
conrad: John, r think there was some sensit.ivity to the miniature golfhere. rt wasnrt voted that way but there r,ras diicussion. city couricii mayentertain that thought. r don'E know just because we voted one way. rthink they will be consistent in some of the things that we're "uying. rthink some phirosophical things will carry out baied on erhat we're sJyingbut I'm sure that miniature gorf is totarly out but r don,t know if y6u iantto carry it forth. It,s really up to you.
(
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Planning Commission MeetingApril 22, 1987 - page 40
Pryzmus: I rdant to carry it forward.
Dacy: What we could ilo is, this is going to the Council on May 4th, youcould come back to the pranning commission on May r3th for permit reviewitrs approved. I know you havL some timrng restrictions.if
Pryzmus: That is to enterand other additional uses.
into another agreement so the y have the site plarOkay.
Dacy: I would have to come back and you_ probably r"rouldn,t get approvalbef ore June lst- rt r.rould be more tiie ii t.hey 6on't ieviei it.
Pryzmus3 -But they canrt review it if you are going to reave the motionstanding jusr for driving range. Letr; just r;ke [h; d;i;i;g range anar rrlhave to spend another month. r don't know what erse to do because you,vemade the motion and that's your feelings so f don,t have an option.
conrad: ry-ell, you probably do. f guess Barb is just giving you someadvice. What did you two decide?
Dacy: I think you are asking us to go ahead and review just the golfdriving range.
Siegel: you still \"ranE it to go before Council in total?
Pryzmus: r want it tc go before council in total because if r donrt...
Dacy: okay, then the. conditionar use permit and the lretland AlterationPermit, they will make a motion to table that pending council finar actionon the Ordinance amendment.
Pryzmus: Let'!s do the wetrand. we can do the wetlands now because that,spart of the driving range. That has nothing to do with ftre miniature golf.
Dacy: So you are saying to go ahead with the driving range?
Pryzmus: Yes.
Conrad: Okay, this is a public hearing. Any comments?
siegel moved, Erhart seconded to crose pubric hearing. Ar.1 voted in favorand motion carried.
Emmings: one thing thaE r notice that there is in the randscaping it saysexisting ash,, 2 to 2 r/2 inches in diameter and points to that whore rongrow of trees- when I drove by there tonight, r;idn't il" '"ny trees at arl.
Dacy: There are trees out there. There are a number of trees out there asJohn has menEioned. They are small.
Emmings: 2 l/2 inches in diameter?
r
CPlanning Commission MeetingApril 221 1987 - page 41
Dacy: Some are but not all.
it go across theEmm i ng s:
this?And d oes
ftnmings: put in a condition Ehat they have to be living trees?
?acy: .It's aLong TH 5, yes. Some, I think may be dead. A lot of themdidn't have leaves on them as of yesterday.
whole property the way it's portrayed on
don't give him lights,
Dacy: They are ident-ifying existing conditions. The specific thing thatthe commission shour:l address is trrl appropriateness of in. righting and thefencing proposars. Those are some of it. [t ing= that 'taff kind of fraggedg:t' with just the driving range, there was a tarrer righting standard inthe southwest corner. your previous motion "".
-ioi-ln.-ip..ution of thedriving range from sunrise t-o sunset io in .y-.i"i-ti.i iiiiti.g schemefalls out and you need to address that one way or the other.
Headla: What does he need the lighting fox? If youthat kind of insures that it doesri't 96 past sunset.
Dacy: I realize that. I was just saying that I rrantedEhe Comrnission was comfortable with that.to make sure that
Emmings: Is there
I ights?any reason they have Ehe lights? That you would want the
Pryzmus: As you know, there is a group home west of me. Irm not sayinganything bad about group homes but thJ contractorrs yard, the residents overhere, everyone in the .fa-rm cnmmunity has security fignts and a person couldget in and raise arl kinds of heck with the putti-nq gi."n o. wtritever ina-ifeel that r need some security maintenance out theie-. irlith the p"tiirrg - -
green being in the southerest corner, that lrirr give me the securiiy aowithere. r arso had security on Ehe front of the indoor activity-Luiraiig uotI wouldnrt propose any more lighting than the average farm has.
Emmings: Ho ir, tarl is that light? How high above the ground is that righti tsel f?
Pryzmus: I donrt knoe, t hat NSp puts in.
Hmnings: Itrs just one of those standard lights?
Pryzmus: rtrs a standard light that would be on a farm. The other thing, rguess r cut it short when the public hearing was closed but as far as th5fencing, there will be the fencing around the perimeEer of it wirr be ttresame as Prince's fencing do$rn the street. rt will be the black rencing--".,athe fencing on the $rest and across the north border wirl be the fenci.ri -"-
thatrs out there- rt is a silver fence but it r.ri11 all be e r.J'r,l q'h".There won't be any need to protect any roads or anything. The drivirig willbe hitting to the north.
{
Emmings: Barbara, f see one
Dacy: Yes, the Iight in theshoern on the plan outside oflights but if the miniatureout. Other than those, that
Commission Meet i ng
1987 - page 42
In back of the tee areathen they are diagonallyrn the tree area -
southr^rest corner is the only one ththe putting area. The miniiture gogolf course is not there, then thoie
atlf
(
light. Are there more?
r.ra s the only light, correct?
the path underneath the trees.
there is a path. I putacross from one another
('
PIann i ngApril 22,
you had
courseLiqhts faL I
trees every 30and the I ights
Pryzmus: We have lighting on
Dacy: For the tee area.
Pryzmus: This is a path in
these
back of the tee area.
Dacy: You're sayi ng are 1g feet in height?
Pryzmus: yes, those are 1was to light the path but
Dacy: Along the tee areathere.
o-feet in height. They would be a dosrn Iight. It-if we're not going to be open...
they are proposing a series of lO foot lights
Pryzmus:
feet and
would be
Dacy: But again, if they condition from sunrise to sunset and they are notthere for security reasons.
Headla: Where $rould that. 6 foot fence be?
Pryzmus: A 5 foot fence would surround the $rhole property.
Headla: Everytime you drive by TH 5 you see a big black fence.
pryzmus: yes, it wou Id be about the same as the arbo retum fence only itv'ourd be brack' rr wourd be the same as prince'" f";;;-;;;i r,"re a mi1e.
Headla: Have you people seen that fence? Go take a look at it.
Pryzmus: If you don't Iike black fence,, I don,t have. to put it. I thoughtmaybe you would like it because it was [h. "u,o" as princers.
Conrad: In trying to understand Staffrs. ana.lysis of the wetland- In Gary,s-report, are those conditions bundled in to the statf r-ecomml'noarrons?
Dacy: Yes.
conrad: And Gary' basicarly you have a rot of concerns with the area from av'etlands standpoint and some oEher Ehinqs. were your conditions as stated,v'ere Ehey worded so thar. if we decided fo arrow tlrring-i"-ihe wetrandsthese things have to be done? r aiJn;t iee a statemeni ttrai said that. r
PI ann i ngApriI 22,
Commission Meeting
1987 - page 43
t
saw Rockwellrs comments saying that the vretlands shourdn,t be filred in.That there are some senstive arlas and whatever. n", ao i- i-nterpret yourcomments at the end oo the attachment?
warren: r admit it got a littte confusing as rare got into it. rn trying tointerpret our wetlands ordinance, that was part of the thrust that r r,rasresponding to some of the deficiencies thai ttre suumi1t-af -r.,u
" in relation tothe wetrands ordinance. r guess the finar bottom rine oi-my comments rrourdbe-that-if yo-u go ahead thai the recommendations that r havi shown shourd beenforced as far as sedimentation basin and then some oi tt""" tt i.rg=. rguess in general that's where I was coming f rom.
conrad: rn brief, rrm not sure that rrve seen a hardship or a rear reasonto arlow the filling in of the eretrands. r wourd have itough tine goingalong with. r donrt think the ....o."= pointed out ar" nlc!""..y. r preferto keep the wetrands operating. rt appeirs from nockwetiis comments, rwasn'|t sure about the trade-offs that ihe was mentioning. r was having atough time interpretting that.
Dacy: When we rrent out to inspect the site, as you know, the area has beencurtivated- what she came back and said ,.r tt.i it,s not gooa tor habitatpurposes. However, it is performing some type of function for storm waterrun-off to Bluff creek. A11 that's out there now are the regrasses and soon' rt is not protected by the DNR because of their particurar restrictionson vegetation and so on. what she said was that they have looked at thesituation where, as in the centex case, if you arter on" puit of thewetland, if y9q improve another part of it, they will acclpt that. In thiscase, the applicant has no acces! to other property. He doesn,t orn uny --
other property that contai.ns additional wetLands aiea. He would have t6gain that easement right over to do that. rf you deny the wetrandsalteration permit, you wourd in effect deny u6e of t h-e property as a drivingrange.
conrad: There are two issues here. As a conditionar use permit for thegorf driving range. There is also a wetlands alteration permit that we haveto respond to a1so. As r said, based on the ordinance foi the wetlandsalteration permit, we haven't solved the problem. There hasn't been atrade. rtrs armost impossible to solve the problem with the rretr.and andtherefore, r guess r vrourd have a tough time. r don,t see how he caomaintain the ordinance and the intent of the ordinance with the currentproposal. Is there a motion?
sieger: Barbara, don't your recommendations make the wetlands permitapplicable to the wetland ordinance?
Dacy: Yes. Thatrs true. Hovrever, because we are unsure about what wouldhappen to the ordinance amendment in the firsE case, we reaLry didn,tspeci fy a mot ion as we do in other cases but.Gary correct mer you Econditions are directed toward gaining additional information andrecommending a permit sedimentation basin there if alEeration was arlowed.
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Commission Meetino1987 - paqe 44
tPlann ingApril 22,
Warren: Right.
siegel: And some of Gary's recommendations were contingent on the totalproject. Not just the qotf driving range right
Warren: My recommenda t. i ons are based on the total project.
Siegel: you had something about run_off from the building.
Warren: Thatrs correct.
siegel: rn lieu of that, does that make any change in your recommendationsset by S ta ff?
Dacy: As far as the drainage issue, it eriminates additionar. hard roofarea, that car.curation from the drainage but r think-tt,"-o"I."rr drainagepran and so on stilr remains intu"t. -iii of these conditions cour.d beapplied for a recommendation or uppiou.i except for number 1. rf you havesome type of preferen.:- for. the ri!ntin9 scheire und y;;-;;orita prouabtyidentify the hours of operation if you ire going Eo recommend approvar.
Siegel: I thought we already did that with the previous motion?
Dacy: Yes, you did but I guess I wouldappl ica ti on.prefer that you clarify it in this
Ernmings: ff someone were towould it make the conditional
Dacy: yes .
r.retland aI tera tion permitvote
use
to deny thepermit moot?
Emmings moved, Erhart seconded thatof the application for the Wetlandexcept Siegel and motion carried.
Ehe Planning Commission
Al teration permit. AIl recommend denialvoted in favor
siegel: r thought r lras assured that staff wourd ensure with theirrecomnendations to satisfy the alEeration permit.
conrad: you can minimize the impact on the wetland but the ordinance says.
siegel: rn essenc€r w€ are denying the property owner any use of his land-
Conrad: No. Eor a golf driving range because he apparently needs moreproper ty.
Siegel:
land to
fail to
is Iess
see the
impa c t range on aof use.
prece of bare
I
me
effecE of a golf drivingon it than any other type
Emmings: He has to fill in the wetlands to use it as a golf driving range.
I
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Commission MeeEino
1987 - page 45
Planning
ApxiJ- 22,
Siegel: I still disagree. I think Staff came up withthe applicant could adhere to and meet the use of the
recommendations tha t
1a nd for his purpose.
?ryzmus: That piece of land has been farmed fox 166 years. It rrashomesteaded and last year with the wettest year ere ever had, it was do$rntwice-.in Ehe spring ana in trre fair. - -ili".. has never been any waterstanding there and so, when you reach your or,iinance about what is a class Awetland or what is a protected wetrand, itrs anything thaL is going to haveany water if there is a L66 year rain. 'ausi"uii.'yl .o'"t-.?-v"ur communitiesare buirt to class A.wetrands according to that ordinance so r donrt wantyou to get rear carried away with thinling that r'm f i.rring in a rake. rt,sa piece of farmrand. rtrs low and it'i advantageous to me to put in acoupre feet of filr so ny bartpicker, when it,s- raining,"'*oi't squeeze thebarrs into the ground. ihere lsn't going to be any chinge. There isnrtgoing to be any buildings close to th-e creek. The water wirr stirr frowvery smoothry. rt's going to be nothing but mowed gru== u.,d so r thinksometim-es yourre getting a rittre carri-ed away with wtrat iim doing in there.The wetlands seems to thror^r the trigger so address that. rt is a farm. rtalways has been a farm. There are ri6 cattails. There has never beenstand i ng water there ever. I drove through there the other day with mypick-up. Nor,r, i.tis been a dry spring- Lait spring it was -ti:e wettestspring we've had for years so it-'s n6t wetrand-s so- r want peopre to rearizethat.
WETLAND ALTERATION PERMIT
vIRGTNIA rOne nlla tll rtt elto
TO INSTALL THE LAKE ANN
NEAR CLASS A AND CLASS B
INTERCEPTOR AND LAKE
wErLElr-ris AtoNc fHE-ALIGNMENT RUNNlNG S OUTHEA S TERLY FROM TH
PARK,NORTH OF LAKE SUSAN AND INTO EDEN
THROUGH cHElru-assEu r,a xn s4l- TO TH 5,
BUS INESS
douTnor, c PRAIRIE,M ETROPOLITAN WASTEoEll r s s r o r,r ,APPL ICANT.
PubIic Present:
Leander Kerber 1520 Arboretum Blvd.
Barbara Dacy presented the staff report on this iLem.
Leander Kerber: I have concern with it because it,s going to go rightacross the south end of my property on TH 5. r have the froperty betweenthe city park and the nursery. My question is,- as long u" it'. iis-""ssi.saround, why don't they cross the highway down the road 500 feet to 1,00gfeet and stay off of my property. Another question is, am i going to b-assessed for that now or when am r supposed to pay for it or im r going tohave to pay? If so, r.rhy?
?39v, The interceptor at this time is not proposed to be assessed durinothis year and in 1987. The Metropoliran counclr witt not atrow u; ;;;i""property or.rners in that owner to hook up into that inEercept.or until afterthe year 2AOg so there are no assessments at this time.
296
City Council Meeting - t4ay 4, l9g7
t_
SITINGS RECREATION
pnvzltus, eppt tcaltt
LOCATD ON THE NORITIWEST CORNER OF TH 5 At\D CR ll7 JOHN
uayor Hanilton: this item has been before us before. r think Jay is probabrythe only one that hasn't had quite as much inp:t as the rest or ti naa.Barbara, is there anything nev, that you migh€ want to present that we vrourdn,tbe aware of or haven't seen in t}re pist aeating wittr ttris i ternZ
Barbara Dacy: r'lo, not at this tine. r guess if you,re just going to considereach item, we're available to answer queitio.r= ..r trc aipr r"-u.,t is nei".
Mayor Hamilton: tet's begin yilh ar the zoning ordinance Amendment. Request
::-:T:rri the, A-2, Agricuttural Estate Disrrist to allord gou driving ,i.,g"=,mrnrature golf courses ard indoor batting buildings as a conditiorni use anditls my understarding John that you want;rl three of those to be consideredand not separately?
John Pryznus: yes.
l4ayor Hamilton: Does t},e Council have any discussion on this item 6(a)?
Councilman Ceving: yes. This is a major departure for a Zonirg OrdinanceAmendment. Tb include not one of these particular items, the g6tf drirri.,grarge but also the miniature golf course ard tie indoor battir! facility.This issue has a long history and after a rot of detiberation i.d ou. Minutesirdicate that we still are lookirq at, in my view, a corditionaL u=" p"i.ltp_rocess and the only thing thatrs acceptable to ne as a councilman ij a gotf
95iviru rarqe- facirity. r dontt berieve that tle miniature golf course meetsthe intent of 9ur Zoning Ord inance. It is in fact a retail facifity. Acommercial faciliLy ard it.fits more ap6rropriately in a cornmerciii i"tti.g undr canrt for the life of me berieve tl.ai-wJ would Lven attempt to consider trre
lndool Fttirg facility in what r $rourd carr an agriculturai aistrici tirat isinterded for at some future point a rurar residenliar area in the year-- zoao.we're talkirg about an interim facirity plan for this rard use. r ;;ur.i *ylrat ij anything should go on that rand,- arxJ r berieve it shourd L ulll i rua.There has been a substantiar amount of development there in terms "r tr-""=being praced there- rhere has been an arteraiion or *," ir"i-ln"ruii,ii*ti,"creek area. That a randowner.does have scrne rights to oeverop-a-loiii&., "rhis property even in an interim use. r feel th;t the gorf a.iui"q -iuno" to.my plrposes at reast, does meet an interim intenE of our ord i nanci. i'ttinrthat .ould fit with the idea that there wour.d be a smarr snea racirity "rc r,.thinkirg in the area of 560 sguare feet maximun to house a tractor arr:' -
r,,hatever office facirities thlre are for the issuance of crubs and counting of
B WETT.AND ALTERATION PERMIT REOUEST TO EILL IN A CT.ASS A WETI,AND.
C. CONDITIOML USE PERMI T REOUEST FOR A COLF DRIVING RANGE MINIATURE@tFCOURSE, AND AN I NDOOR BAITING BUILDINGS.
t
W
t
A. $ onorluuce AMENpMENT @{]EST Ip AMEND THE A_2, AGRICULTURAL
F.qTarn orsrnrcr ro er,r,ow corr D-nrvrNd rtrcnslrNreiuneffisos
42
297
City Courrcil Meeting - May 4, 1987
balrs and things like that. That there will be no commerciar enterprise ofthis property. No vendirq whatsoever of p"a, i.= ".".. or any other suchcommercial venrures- rtrat i1 be strictry- f;; th" recreation ir-g;iiiii
"nathe drivirg. range. So therefore, I,m saiing that there wouLd be no .,r"fo i.,g o.ccncessionaire Qpe activities. we wour-d f-ence it completely ,itrr "'o'-rootwire mesh fence. I think llrar vro-ulg te appropriate. sjro, G . "iL- pian witha lardscaping plan John. We need that. T r*t to see where you,re plantingsar.e ard what they wiu rook like in years to come ard under no- ci rc,:*ilr"",wilr r think that we could even .on!ia.i ." "rte..tion to the wetland that,sexistant ol -th.! property. Do not violate that wetLard ard I have in ourpacket tonight from Dr- Rockwerr whom r know and have worked with for a numberof years, an opinion from the rish ard wirdlii; service that ;ys ttrere strourabe no alteration to t}re w.etl.an!-. Ncw if you cin do your facifiiy, [o-"..,drive balls arrl collect tl= baus urrler t6ose "i.",r*it rr.o, i i[f'6ut Voocould hold a facility out on that rard and run a profitabre business. That,sthe erd of my clrments.
Courcilman Johnson: I terd to agree with Dale on this. Especialty on the$'etlards IErt. r believe that you can get the wide bodiJiire;'*iut".r..vehicle that could navigate on the wetlarrl more the tractors that are therenow sould just falr in6 .}E wetrard ru"i."iiy. There's no way you could pickup the balls with those existing tractors. yoi: wourd have to have the rittletire or whatever to be able to navigate within the area. rrm not t.iriuryopposed to, like some of the planning commission members said that tiey werelot opposed to having the putt-putt or mini_golf in -conjunction ;ith;Ldriving range. The mini-golf by itserf r'm Lotally against out tn"i" u,,,t i.,conjunction witlr a driving range as a smarr-er enterprlse, I,m not terribryopposed to but r wourd totally agree with Dare and the eranninq co*rni""ion ""no further alteration, it,s already been altered, to that wetfarxls. ---
Councilman Horn: Just a clarification. I believe the question was, we,reasking for a zoning ordinance amendment to incrude atr ihree. rf r heard Daleand Jay right they said tlrey would not go along with tiat.
Councilman Geving: That was the intent of my statanent, yes.
Counci lman Horn: It sesns like that's all I heard.
Mayor t{amilton: From my stardpoint r think what rve seen John on your praosis an overintensif icaton of the use for the land. r don't think thl-httingthirg fits. r certainry s-r$-. drivirq range is very useabre there alongwith the miniature putt and if you were to put a mini-golf ttring trrere tnat,ssimilar to the one on IH I01 ard TTt 7, which I think is-a reaf n-ice'-facilityard does a good business, _r could certainly see that as an asset to ttnl area.r think an indoor battirg facirity may be somethirg that our town -ulJ,_r="but r dontt think it fits on that piece of land so r agree with ttre othercouncil members. you've asked for three thirqs ard I haven,t neara anyo.reagree t}lat all three shourd be in that particul.ar location. r guess i motionis in order on i tem A.
@uncirman Geving: r will, move to approve a zoning ordinance Arnerxlment toamerd the A-2, Agricultural Estate District to arlow golf driving iurg.= ." "
I
t
a
,
43
I
I
298 {(
conditional use- r think the other items that r hear would falr into thecorditional use permit itserf as a part of that ard those conditions howeverwourd also include the planning commissionrs recommendations because this isan amerrlment to an Ordinance. There have to be some other things that wewould place in the ordinance to structure it and that is, (I) lLation isliy_lted to being adj acent to TH 5 and Itt 212 .J u"""* must be from acorlector or arterial streets to TtI 5 0r TH 2r2. we're trying to rook to thefuture not just at this particular facility but to the amendment to theur-ornance- Hours of operation shall be from sunrise to sunset and thatadeguate .parkirg ard suhnission of a rardscaping pran shalr be in conformancer.rith Altic1e vrrr. [b site shau be rocatea'wiinln SAs {..,.x;t; ;Gi:family residence. we'[ discuss that in a minute because ttrere may E-aconflict but that shourd be one of the items. i wouta like to add anotheritem, that there wourd be r,o verdirg of concesslons on the site. Any buirdingfor tlre p,rpose of storing gorf driving equipment such as the barr retriever,the tractor ard smarl office wourd be iimited in size to sgg
-sguare -i""i, ..ribe painted in an earthtone.
ltpre vras no second ard motion failed for lack of secorxl.
l4ayor Hamilton: John, did you want to say sonethirg?
John Prlzmus: I didn't know if you wanted to see a plan or anythi.ng likethat.
We were given copies of your plan unless it's changed since
I
Mayor Hamilton:
we got.it.t
John Pryzmus: No. The only thing I would like to mention is that I spent alot.of time today ard the last couple days, I y*ve IAOZ backing f.o* ti.,"business community, my peers, what they- see is a need out therl for thecommunity. r went through different arlas in the community to fird oui tn"residents and people who don,t have businesses in town. dsically tf,.f ,"r"902 for it- The r0? that didn't sign the petitions either didn,i-rnow' enougnabout _the project.to sign it or thel r husbind or wife wasn't homl;th;ywanted to make a joint decision so r feel here that we have .-o**uniiy
"uppo."of just about 100? for the project.
_
tsatting cages are a big part of.ii. uyfinanciar backers won'|t be invorved it r aoi,u hive the tot;r'p;;j;t -;; rwon't be able to go i.nto a financial contract with you if you lim-ia thl; itjust a driving rarge. Basicalry r have a driving range out there now so rjust wanted to ret you know that rrve done a 1ot-of h6mework ri*. -yor'il
.sr"aDale. I hired the architects. I hired tle engineers. I,ve done ",r".ytninqthat the City, we've moved thi.ngs arourd to thJ west and north and south and
fr.ave done everything that r courd possibry do with staff basicaliv to
-n"
torothat r don't have any more than r had bef:ore even though you took ic .ru.y.That was a matter for the cpurts to decide. neaffy it -com* a.". l; ;;;;spent about $Lq,sUq-aa with plans and vrhat have you to get the same thing rgot three months ago. If you rarere going to tell me the- same tning, *ht'aia.,,tyou just terr me that three months lgo -that no matter what you do. No matterhow many pJ.ans ard architecturat drawirqs you get because it i.;,a S;r;'matter. It don't matter r^rhat the people oi &ranhassen want. It,s what youpersonal-ly vrant that matters. - '--- l 0
44
City Council Meeting - l,tay a, tgaZ
City Council }4eeting - t4ay 4,
9QO
ilr
1987
g
t
t45
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Jack Roberts: we weren'!t here for this pa.rt of it but it,s news to me thatsomebody was going to be deveroping a driving range ard mini-gorf ard battingcage. I grew up in suburban Chicago and one of my favorite slorts as ateenager, going wittr my_dad ard rater on in high school ard "ott"ge with mybrothers, there was -..which was a farm type oi place with a doubie decker
f.iyi.q range ard mini-gorf course arrf oulaoor uittr.rq *g"= u.d, =p"nt on"helr of a lot of time there doing all three at one ti-me. we didn't go tn"..just to do baseball because if you put r4r a batting cage someone i., ini. tor.,who might need it for arr the kids rike my three ions -who are 9 and r0 yearsord, where are they going- to go just to go uatting aBl not be able to b-uy icecream or a can of pop ard can only do it from sunrise to sunset. !G11, that.sreal good hours in Apri1, I,lay and SepEember. It seems like when yourre ateenager you may want to be out past g:00 at night. rf this businlss wourdfry,. r think something like Lo=00, LL.^T, L22o6 it night during certain timesof the weeks. r think at least a can of pop or nibble of chips or candy baror Em something like that i,rould be atrpropriate if you're going to run ibusiness and unless you don't have kids that play baleball arxl gorf, this areacould use sornething other than just the nice mini-gorf that's .4) on rll 7 arxl
TH I0I. Where ls there a driving range that you can go to and not have to bea member or feel that you have to pray 18 holes. r heard ceorge prieditis on
my softball team tonight said we could go to a batting cage in St. paul.
Where is the closest batting cage for the kids that are in baseball or fordads, for a bunch of jocks who just want to go out and hit and not go down tottle metrodome for two days of the year ard try ard make tlle team down there.
There may be a need for something 1i.ke thi.s in the recreation area in not toofar away from downtown Chanhassen ard what is that site doing right now? It,svegetating. I don't know about wetlards and al1 of that... I just heard aboutthis in the last half hour but I spent hours at a place like that when I was akid ard I stil1 play baseball and I still play golf and I love it and I gotkids that I would like to take to do that right now because they want topractice and rather than in my backyard or at Chan Elementary where we poundsolfballs or golfballs. That's where people practice their golf in Chan rightnow. I think maybe, maybe there is a need for this here and i.f you guys could
work something out.
Mayor Hamilton: I don't think anyone is saying there is not a need for it.
What werre saying is the location is not in the area Ehat we Ehink it shouldbe in and the use of that Su.rticular piece of Land is probably not suited.
Jack Roberts: Couldnrt you use draintile or pipes or something to...
Mayor Hamilton: !'re deal rrith what we see presented to us- We don't talk tothe applicant ard tell them how to do his plan. We can't do his pLannirg forhim. Any other conments.
Councilman Horn: The motion would be then if we decide we don,t want to giveaLl three of these, the motion would be to deny the zonirg ordinance amendmentat this point. However, t^rhat I would like to see happen is to see this go
back ard Lnve a zoning ord i nance amendment that would incrude golf courses asweII as driving ranges because I was jusE as appalled as the planning
Commission to fird out we donrt have a place to put a golf course in
chanhassen. r think itrs ridicul,ous Ehat Bluff creek has to be a conditionar
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use permit. I would like to have this whole ord inancE tooked at.
Mayor Hamilton: r was surprised to see that also. we missed that somehow,golf courses, and I have no probl.em with miniature golf courses either. Idonrt have any probren with indoor tratting buirdingJ ir trrey -are gri'in trr"right place.
Courci lman Ceving: !,there else are you going to put thqn?
councirman Johnson: r haven't rooked at that qu€stion yet. without rookingat the question arri having the. planning commisiion give me.a"i."." tir.tquestion, r think it's a good idea for thqn to review that firsi- - --
Courcilman Horn: Ihat's. yhy I think werre premature in suggesting a zoningordinance amendment tonight. Thi_< is u ,$ifi" request for a zoningord inance amendment for this project. ru-r trrose thiee uses. rf we,ie sayingthat vre're not going to alt.ow -tho'se three usesr our only option is to denythis request. I,lor^, $re could go beyond th.t u.ra'"uy we want the planningcommission to rook at some tlpe oi a zoning ordrnance recommerriation to us foralrowing gorf courses ana ariving ru.rg." .id mini-putts o. ,r,ut"rr".- r" want toinclude in that but r don't ttri.nf trrat,s th. i;; of a motion. The motion iseither to accept this or deny ttris as I see it.
councilman Johnson: Dare's motion was to accept one-third of it. l4y motionis to accept t$ro-thirds of it.
Councilman Horn: Blt why make a zoning ordinance when you haven,t studied theissue? vrhy not corne back- with that unrlss i s ried to i "p""i?i" Jr-Jis.rz
@uncilman Johnson: the additional issue is the golf course.
Barbara Dacy: yes, there was a specific request for driving ranges, miniaturegolf course and then indoor rcatting buir.dinis and therefore- r" pio".=J .request in right of that- we did not speciiicarly advertise roi-lori.orr*".
I Ti..k l}re two though are vasrly diffe-rent. I rirink *nut;. U"ing';;i=.dtonight is a differenr intensity -than a golf course is ..c a goii'c6.rr-IJ wourorequire a setrErate and differenl review -process than a ari"ing ;de-- *Ihat,s
irhy staff went ahead ard process this re,quest. w€ can 9o back arrl pick upgolf courses at a r-ater point but ," .u*6 from the stanapoi.nl- tr,.a'vo"" aion,thave to tnve a golf course in with the amerdment to go alorg witl. a drivingrange.
Counci lman Horn: I understand that. My point is that if we,re not going toamerd al-l three of these uses this evenini, it isn't necessary for uJ io amen:any of them this evening.
City Council }4eet ing - hy 4,1987
Mayor Hamilton: that's true.
$ray or...We have two options. We can either do it that
so what you're saying is they are either appropriate in the A_2
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Barbara Dacy:
or theyrre not.!
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City Courci I r.eeting - lray 4, 1987
courcilman Johnson: And my rnotion sar,= that t$ro out of three of them areappropriate if they are together.
t'la]rcr. tramirton: r agree $rith crark. r have no probrem with indoor battingbuildings but r don'|t think that was allowed for- in our orai*rr..-iJ"i".,riP"r' lihy don't we arso take a rook ut .nii "na "." ,t"r" .n"y t".riJ-eauogred.
courrcilman Johnson: cenerar recreationar facirities. Take ore step be].ond.rt courd be more than a batting cage. rtpre are other q)orts .*r.itiJ,"rfacilities that cluld Ue c,cnmeiciaily availabl-.
Barbara. Dacy: Right- Ttre irrioor.batting buirdirg term is very specific ardthe zoning ordinance does generar i ze in -the business generar and businesshighway. r think it says q)orts clubs ard or cpmmerciar recreation "o th.ttlpe of use could be allorEd in our cqrmercial district
May-or l-lam il ton: Maybe that needs to be specifica[y outrined so atr?ricantswould know exactly where they could propose to [Irt -tlis thing.
Councilman Johnson moved, Councilnan Gev irq seconded to atrprove a Zoningord inance Amenlment to arrow driving rangel with miniatur-e- gort "oui=es'." "naccessory to the drivirg rarge as a corditional use in the {-2 0istrict wit}rthe following corditions:
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the location is linited to being adj acent to TH 5 and TH 212 andaccess must be frcrn a collector or arterial which leads to T,ll 5 orw 272.
2. tburs of operation shall be frqn sunrise to sunset.
3- Provision of adequate parking areas ard suhnission of a rardscapingplan in conforrnance with Article VIII.
4. !b site shalr be rocated within 500 feet of singre fani r.y residences.
5. Any building be smarl and earthtone in coror for dispensing of gorfbalIs.
6. That gorf courses be Eaken back to the pranning commission to revierr -what zonirg district golf courses belong in.
courcilman Johnson ard councirman ceving voted in favor and counci lman Hornard lrayor Hanilton otpos€d. There $ras a tie vote, 2_2.
counci lman Horn: My recorunendation would be to deny the request tlat,s beforeus ard then put this subj ect back to the planning commission- to crarify eachof those issues and give us a reconmendation.
Barbara Dacy: To clarify each drivirq range, miniature golf course.
Courcilman Horn: the golf course, the indoor batting, address all four of
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City Counci I Meeting - t4ay 4, LggT
those issues. where they berong arrr make that part of the overarl zoningordinance anerrlnent.
Mayor Hami.lton: Anl get a Eecommerdation back from the pranning commission asto where they should be as an amenlnent to the Zoning Ordinance]
Councilman Geving: Itle problem though is ]rou canrt think of everything.r€t's say that the aEplicant would have asked for indoor archery llr eximpreor some other recreational p-rrsuit. rb didn't. tE just tnppenea to 9o withbattirg here ard that could go in another whore area that ;; haven,t 6vendiscussed here at any time so there courd be any nunber of other recreational
.ite1g tiat are goirg to be propos€d to us as courcil nembers art weiir have tohardle_ then on a one [Er one basis arri not ever!.time Ue Uro,.rght to t;;courcir. or,' ordinances are rEver going to ue aure to "a"q,r"-tlly
-ansier arrthe questions that people are going to pose as a proposal io us.-
I,layor Hamilton: But they can do a better job than rdhat werre doirg now. Wecan go back and look at irdoor batting faCitity. If that,s in a g-eneralrecreationar use than rre better have i definition of a generar rdreationalnse. !'ihat does that entail? Does it entail indoor goli? rrdoor batting?rrdoor archery? rrdoor shooting? t-€t's be more specific about irrroor. youcan list 100 things and say those are things that ire ircIuded.
c-ouncirman ceving: I4aybe rrn getting kird of where clark's com irg from. ralways like to look at tl. issue in front of us. rhe issue is a iequest forirrJoor batting ar@, a miniature putt-putt area ard arso for a gou trivingrangg- _.Ihat's really what $re're talking about arxi we.re being jsked to amendour ord inance to include those as condilional uses for this pirticulai- pieceof larri. *ohr we can ei the-r accept that or deny the request -oa ," "rn "i""ptthat witfi corditions anr arter the request anl not compietery deny it butapprove the portions that we prefer as four council people h-ere ionight arxlIet tlle applicant go about his Hay and start developing this.
Mayor tramirton: But that was my reason for the question to the appricant r.rhenr.re started this. He wants to have all three of ltrsn.
-@uncilman Geving: Ihen hers taking a high risk.
Mayor Hamirton: That's r"rhy r asked John that question when we started. Heerants to have alr three of them or nothing. r guess that's the way I look atir-
Counci lman Ceving: fE might get nothing.
Pat Farrell: you ought to have that on record.
Counci lman @ving: If tlnt's r"tEt he wants then I agree with Clark.
Mayor Hamirton: rs that true John? Do you want arr three to be considered?Do you r.ranb all three or nothing? . BasicaU.y tha t is r.rhat you,re sayln!.Thatrs what I asked you at the beginnirg of ihe meeting. Oi yo, "u,it, Jifthree of these Eo be considered and pasleO or none of Lfrenra -
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City Council },reeting - [,tay 4,1987
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Jobn Pryzmus: r guess- if you r"rant to rnake an amendment to include the drivingEE ff lJlfrtJ?:no.tr as it's p'op"J-*ilt'out the battinq--si j*,irr
lrayor tiamilton: !6uld you incl:de golf courses in your motion?
councirman Geving: r.lo arrr. r think the reason hrhy rde don,t have that in frontot us tonight, that's another issue. -----': '
councilman Johnson: hre, are your miniature gorf courses only associatedspecificarly wittr driving r..g.i or ;;-Gy-g;r"g to be an arrowable usez
councilman Geving: yes. rrm E:tting ttris in as an auxilliary use with aoutdoor golf driving range.
Itayor Hanilton: Iihy?
Counci Iman Geving: Because I canrt see Eltting up a miniature golf course inan A-2 area as a seDarate T*o,:.9i+ ".,i;;;lA. r -think it has to 90 arongwith the intent of'what .we're tarxing Joui-r,"?g 3"a thar's a golf diivingrange facility. r want to q.t g*n iGti,"..'-^ r don,t s/ant to see anal'licant come in for exampie ,ith a ;i;;;iie gorr appricarion for rhe HesseFalms or someprace in trre e-z oi"tir.i".J-Lli! we carve out a orE acreminiature gorf because i! t "pp"". t" iii'1rJ?=""i"g ordinance ard it wour.d bea[proved because it wouldn't -ion. u"r*" til 60."ir. rt,s an approved anrlegitimate business arxl r want to see those.
John Pryzmus: Can I iust mentio_n orE thing? On the square footage of thebuilding for the clublouse. 500 square r.6t, i aon;t-r.=nor-ii;::; :;J n".one tractor in there for. storage in'ttr" ,nin-ier -ana r wouta prefer to have arrmy equipment stored inside in -tf,e wint"r. "?i".la
r.ri th staff arrl I will betaking rhe dome down afft putrirg ;;llG aiii"."nt rhere ard r could buitd anice lookinq buirdinq " t ti-r- *-i-.ti,"L-;1i'i# i'"r"'...r* it so the manaqer canvratcrt ard make sure everyttring 1s ;r;;;; *..;ah
ry ard arso have a gJraqe door*":"!:,..i::*"f'.ffiny?: ri in ti'' *-i'it*'l-'? sos "q,u'" r""r r" lr"ii tr.,.
@unciLnan Ceving: No it's not.
Oounciljnan Johnson: That,s 22 by 22 basically.
Councilman Ceving: I figured it out because it,s about 22 by 22, about the:t:ffi:.: normar sarase or 2o by zs. i-f".J p-t""*.a tn" n,r.G.-Joni. -ti.," ..
John pryzmus: The thing about it is, the slab out there is 3g by 4g that ralready have poured ard tnat would house both tractors, povrer nowers ard what
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City Council },reet ing - May 4, 1987
Courci lman Geving: Okay, Staff reconmended g00. Vbuld you biu\f ggg?
John Prlrzmus: I guess if I can get it in.
councilman Geving: r'lr a'..od my motion to irrclude an g0g square foot shed.
Councilman Horn: Ir11 amerd my second.
Councilman Geving moved, @uncilman Horn seconded to approve the Zoningordinance Amendment_ request to amerd the A-2 agricurbliir. n"tut" oi"t.i"t torncrude. a- golt clrlvrng au"-,g: 3r _mini.atu:e golf courses as an accEssory use togolf.driving ranges as corditionar uses in the a-2 DistricE with tle fitrowingcorditions:
the Iocation is limited to being adjacenE to IH 5 and TH 2I2 and
access must be from a collector or arterial which leads to T*l 5 ardrH 2L2.
2. tlcurs of operation shall be frorn sunrise to sunset.
3. Provisidt of adequate parking areas ard srhmission of a lardscapingplan in cpnformance with Article VIII.
4. lb site shall be located within 500 feet of single fatrily residences.
5. The building to be constructed on any site would be a maximum of 900
square feet, painted in earthtones to house the facility.
A1l voted in favor ard motion carried.
B. WSTT,AND ALTERATION REQUEST TO FILL IN A CTASS A WE"TT,AND
Mayor Hamilton: I believe a good share of that wetland has been filled
through the years vrhen there has been plowirg ard agricultural activitiesoccurring on that property. r believe that the applicant also may have firredin part of that so I asked the SEaff today if that in fact still is a Class A. wetland. If it does have the grasses and the standing water ard everythingelse that's required to be classified as a Class A vretlard. I guess Irm notconvinced that it is any longer whether by the applicanE,s doing or somebodyelses so I'm not sure if hre're really talking about a permit for a Class Ar.retland. Is it really a Class A wetlarxl? By rrhose definition also?
Barbara Dacy: It. is a Class A wetlard by definition of the City Wetlard
Ord inance which !,,as adopEed in 1984.
Mayor Hamilton: there are marsh grasses ard cattails and all thaE sort ofthirg growirg out there?
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Barbara Dacy: there i.s a small amount of reed grass as Dr. Rockwelt pointed
9ut: The area is not good for habitat however, the vegetation in the soils doirdicaEe a wetland. tberever, it is obvious that the site has been cultivatedfor in excess of 50 years it was a siEe for tree farm. The quatity of that E
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City Counci I |,leeting - Itay 4, 1987
portion of the wetland. is really in question and the applicant subrn itted aletter -detail irg the history of-the tise "i
-li.t pa.rticular site. As waspointed out in the reDort, fhe portion ot -trre Ltrana contained in the site isapg:roximatery 4 acres'and tnat'i trre ."*rinirq'p..t of the originar atottmenttotals 78 acres and extends to the northe;;- p;ri ot tfre propeiaf - -^-
Councilman Johnson: I $ralked this rretlands several times now. Theredefinitely are trEat gras-ses and your uqo.ii.-r.g"tation. trying to sprout l4)Ihu: ,.": moved on rop oI i! we;ve got- stanairq water in it -ponaif,Ji
ur"Oto be kind of the feed to the_ top of- ti," *"tfanOs from the appearances of it.coirg fron his proposed.tee lir.-dosrn 2gg i;;e;, it's not much of a wetrarrlan,'more so on your prints, the top harf of it has pretty well been firred by 5inches to a foot of soils. - The l6wer, ."p."iuffy beyord the 250 yard range,which is a pretty good gorfer, p"r"o.,urry'i "..r't ..L" 1e 2gg yard range, isstil1 mudr IEat soits without'mich f ilit'g;;i;g "n. There has been somegrading goj.ng on in there-. As i.t exists,- ri.-"gt a soils expert to telr youhow muclr it can hold as far. as tractors o.-inrini"g. i-thi;il;";;i;pt:b:!ly operate fairly easity down to *E 2g:g yard point. Between the zqgand 250 creares a problem ard be_yord 250 is peai thai most ."Vti,ing is-goingto drop into. with good grass down to ttte iaa that shouldn,t be a rot ofprobrem- r wouldn'|t want to see €rny rnore .r,ieiations down ao ir* ,!iiuna= ..it is- r believe there is "o*" .."'o*rn*dat-rons trrat said if we did arrowaJ terations, they wanted a permanent sedimentation basin at tt u"it ..' rtFi" l-" all grass, you,re not going to be getting much sediment cominq-out otit- what would we be rryirg co =eitt" in ihe sedimentation rasini---ti a.e welooking for a nutrient basin to take out the nulrients r.on, tn"
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Gary warren: r 100ked at it from that starxlpoint as a buffer zone betweenwhat woufd be remaining as wetrand versus tlie activity tr,ut ,roriJ J"onou.t.aon the site. From fertilizers or anything else that would have to Lutilized out there.
Councilman Johnson: This is pretty much the headwaters for what, Bluff Creekr believe- At this point R:ruff cr&t< is only a foot or two wiJe'arra-ii"afeeds a rot of our chain of rakes so the heatwaters must be protected andthat's where I'm coning frcrn in protecting this wetlards.
councirman Geving: Ttre onry comment r $/ant to make, Iim not too concernedabout the wetlards as r am about staying away from the creek "a"".
-'tr,.f ,.=the probrem we had before. r do respect Dr. Rock$rell s .*r*".J"ti."=.
Councihan Horn: I just think v,e should keep it as it is.
Mayor Hamilton: I guess I don't see any reason why it can't partially befilled in at least up to the 954 eievation. That rjould stiLl'be ""ou{n-"..ufor _some pord ing near the creek for run-off into the creek and still be ableto filter $rater.
Mayor Hamilton moved to approve the wetlarxl Alteration permit request to filrin a Class A wetlard up to the 954 contour ard perm it approval f.o* -ti= L*Vcorps of Engineers. there r,nus no second and motion ai-i roi ra"r or- ona.
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councirman Johnson: Because werre building sornething wlthin 2o6 feet of ar^retlards, how does that affect this ard if there is ;ot going to be any-further r^rork on the wetrands, does the coniitionar use have to have the corpsof AI3ny Bgineer's approval also?
Barbara Dacy: I take the proposed Council action to mean approve thec_orditional use permit for the driving range ard basicarly tirl applicant can,tfirl into the wetland area. tb can not alter it so " spdific "o,ioitro.,should read that the vretlard area as identified on the pran should remain asis.
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT REQUEST EOR A C,OLE DRIVING RANGE, MINIAII'RE GOLF COURSEAND AN I l.loooR eettrNc BUILDINGS.
WE"II,AND ALTERATION PERMIT TO INSTA LL THE T,AKE ANN I NTERCEPTOR AND THE IAKEVIRGINIA FORCEMAIN IN AND NEA R CT,ASS A A ND CTASS B WETT-ANDS A LONG THEALIGNMENT RUNNING SOU THEASTERL Y FROM TH 4.L TO TH 5, THROUGH THE CHANHASSEN
TAKES BUSINESS PARK, NORTH OF IA KE SUSAN AND INTO ED EN PRAIRIE,METROPOLITANIiASTE CONTROL COMMISSION , APPLI CANT.
councilman Johnson: There was a point in here where Dr. Rockwell made arecommendations. rt wasn't within the corditions. r thought it would havebeen good to have those recomrnendations for the areas arongside the wetlardsto be recompacted inmediatery to prevent, r,m trying to fifo it in treie.
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l,layor Hamilton: Thatrs $rtEt tE just passed.
councirman Geving: !.tro alteration of the area. rrm talking about alterationin terms of excavation anJ replacernent of soils in the retiarrj area.
Councilman Johnson: So plantirg grass seed in the $retlard area, would that beaccepEable or urculd that be considered fill?
Mayor tlamilton: Are we going back to the last motion are we to clarify thatat this poi.nt?
Counci lman Johnson: Ihe last motion almost kicks out the conditional usepermit because this land wourd be useless within the wetlards that's in themiddle of the driving range unless he can snooth it out to pi.ni g.."".
Mayor Hamirton: If he doesn'|t firl it to the 954 contour then it wourd bemore useabr-e- we still have a drainage area and firtering area before it getsto the creek.
Mayor Hamilton moved, counci lman Geving seconded to approve a conditionar- usePermit request for a gorf driving rarge ard miniature golf course. A1r votedin favor and motion carried.
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City Councit Meeting - Nay 4, LggT
Councilman ceving moved, @uncilman Horn seconded to deny the WetlandAlteration Permit request to firl i.n a crass A wetland. Ar1 voted in favorexcept }layor Hamilton wtro opposed and motion carried.
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City Council tGeting - lbvqnber 16,
Oounci lman Johnson:
anl4{ay.
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I thought that was what tlre park ard Rec was asking for
ZONING ORDIIIATICE AMENDMENT 10
@urci lman Boyt: what we agreed to tie other evening was that I,t!. patton wourdbuild tlre trail on botn sidls of q ri..rl-i tii"r park arrl Rec said that ifhe chose not to bui ld it,.*rere wouta be . iJo.tlon in the trails fees. Ithink since then we have increase tn" ;;J;itrails we've asked Mr. patton
::.*:13 in this developmenr arri q'ite p.."iUiY it,s reasonabLe Eo ask for an
courcilman Bolt moved, oouncilman Horn secorded that the applicant provide aneasement on one side of @unty Road 17 for the iuture develoFnent of a trail,to be built by_ the city, if a trail ," ;th "l;; of county bad 17 is deemednecessary. A11 voted in favor arrl motion carried.
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be willing to support a situation in which he woul-d grant the city ano*T*!: .If the ciry wants to build a trail on boti sides of cn fi, r u,inxwe shourd be. wiuirg to pay for it uut ru iir"- to have that option avaitabJ.eto 's- r think thar saves- r,rr.. pa*onrs };ii;; trat it,s .o"ting-tt.---'developnent noney because you're simfty ;ilil;.,us an easement ard yet itprotects rne ability of rha city to -".noJ uu"i- una uoira a .'aii i"il;.--
CONDIT IONAL USE TURE
AND FIT.IAL READING.
B. APPROVAL CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT DOCUMENT.
AND MINIA ffifu**lil#"ffi,ASA
Barbara Dacy: r do need a clarification on one of the proposed corditions ofthe condi:ional use permi.E but.as to-the zoning oroina.;" ;;,rdr;;^;;councir needs to act on the 2rxr ard finar reaaing on the zonirg ordinanceT19-"rt to, alrow 90lf driving ranges as u comrtronal use with or withoutmrnrature golf as an accessory use- The five coroitions-tLl-tr,"-tr""ir p"tin their motion from uay 4, 19g7. rhe courril ipproved the corxlitionar usepermit ard arso acted tJ deny the vrerrard arteraiion p.,it ".' arr.^ilIi"i.rneeds to authorize execution of t-he corditional use permit which staff hasprepared in AErachrnent +2. rf r courd review briefly .;;-";';; ;;j;i"...0n the graphic here the big brob, if you wirr, rs trre wetrana;;."1;;"northwest corner of the site. rhe orirge area is *r,"." *,.',iilirir.. ilatcourse is going to be rocated. rhe gray area is where tie "^.;1.-;-.:^1".proposed to be then rhere was a s:nall crubhouse urirar"rr'i"T.:;;''n"1tl" iir.cplored square is the proposed batting building rt that i;,n". - tt"'Litingbuildirg was noE approved as parr of [he cordi iiona] use p..*ia'.L1iii ..".over here represenEs the sepEic system sites adjacent to G:rpin BIvd.. thissite plan shown here $ras-submi_t_ted in conjunction ,"rith the lardscapinq planard that ,andscaping plan is proposed to 6- *,e instarration or a numfoI ordeciduous trees ard arso proposed construction or b"r. lr"u's ir,i"r,"LI.represenred in green. The appl icant also proposed run"ine-u.;;J"d"=*ti."perimerer of the sire as werr as a fenc.e aioun: trre ,r.;i_;.;;";# #iIiIXr..
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'flfritw s!{rNcs REcREATToN pRoJEer, JoHN pRyzr'rus, AppLrcANt:
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USE, 2ND
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City Council tteeting _ Novsnber L6, Lg87
ffi;a.**Ta" corditional use permir has been designed ro follow up on ther."a=",pi,,gli;:'i;T:f,*fr3*,i:.'=i"'+*t?:#i"?:;,f*i:=il:""r.
revised grading pran showing Ehe limits Ji gr.aing,- *ethods of erosion controrard irdicaEirq rhe rev.ised i*-;;;i-d" ilLri*j-'i.;;.r: "r"rtlJi." o" r.,recarr ' the appricant traa originarlv-*aiias in.at.ering trre wettarJ alea arrrcrearirg a porri back here ard-to i;.;';J:i"vation of the hirl o,er in thisarea for rhe consrrucr]?: 9f.," giiiri ir'irii"g. since the wetland alrerarionpermit was denied ard
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si,n." t-i," U"ttG Uuiili.g ,." not included in theapproval' the appricant has changed hii pi""!':. tiat.
're would rike to reducethe size of *p hirr in-Sir;;;-#-;.:;t-of au, if you wilr recart,.arver countv had a cordition-tr,"t-ir.-rIt"i ur". for tle parking rot ardthe clubhouse buildim_be-m::"".,.* f; f;t""a from rhe cenrer tine ofGalpin BIvd.. f apofog i re. to. the applic;;L ;i* arrl to the Council, but Ureway that first corditio_n snoula rei'G-r;an-ir. 50 foot structure setback inthe A-2 disrlicr, rhe first .".,aiti""-!i,luii' i."a, indicaEing rhe revisedrocarion of the oarking-rot .J-"r-Gnorl=JJig'r."a from rhe cenrer rirE of cR1r7' ltn t wourd take into_ accomodation -tt -"- -uoa
i ti o* I right-of-way *.o"a ro.cB r17 as welr as rhe s0 foor s"tu."[.--- ;'tfik tu. ,.i-ii".""=lJr.lT urons.r made an error in the footage i;ilfu Lii". iir" of calpin Br.vd.. rhe sizeof the parkinq r'ot was primaiity ;"J;-;;'^"." of the batting buirdirg.Provided on the pran heie is ".,i.trr-"ti.i' o?*92 =p..=.. rt" uul"tG-iuiraingIs not being included, .there is no ..u"on ;; ;y" rhat size of a paifing rotso r"hat the first cond ition ls *vinq i"'th;t t" pf"n should sho$, the revisedrocation of rhe parkirg lol ard r';-iik" ai-.ia ar.,. revised size ard loca.ion
:f , y,.,., -i:::n.i::,#, _-*T*". -*,il.-. ii.-Epr ican E. i s p.opo! i ig- to' ."du".
was Eo be bituminous "!]*{fi"iY;"r8",i"r,-.if :Tff..ff: H.-.#fr,-="the first cordition there. arso, ihe o-.or-nu*" does require ihJ uii-p.r:.ingareas shourd be rined by concrere curb arso .o tr,"Lul"'ii;.;;#i"tor".u".that in more detair tonight uut in oraei-tJ ilt"n our ordinance, a sentenceshould be added Ehar th_e parking 1n;]iu"
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and rineci wi.th concrere curb.The secord corrlition *r:.::1*..nlf. on the $."uiou= staff reporr f..x 1n ,v.ythat in order to be consisEenE erith our t_di".plng ordinance, 5 footevergreens and 2 foor evergreens
-shourd be praced u.u"""n -t1i"'pi.iiii ....=ard Galpin BIvd-. the proposed fercing oi 'tf,"-srt", the applicant indicatedto me that it r"rould be apg:ioximat.ry s- re"t1L it should not exceed our 6feet in conformance with-our orainu'n...---ilrlJ 4 and 5 realJ.y go together.As you recarr, the bathrooms vrere Eo be rocated in_the battirg buirding area.Tte appricanE has fourd a better roc.tion -rliiourd
systems over in thi= *...If tlE bartinq buildinq..l: T? 1.o,r9". .n..", -tt" Uu*roo*= 'a."-'io-
#. nli"* ,.the crubhouse, the appiicant's has u *upi. oi-optj.ons. re can ei tnii-pumpthe effr'uent to a sepiic sys tem site to ihe north, instarr a holdirg tui-rr o.rnstall remporary saterlites on tr," prop".ty'li "1.!.".rfi L';;;;"#i"9$: i! the septic sysrem sites .r" ,iot'ro L *"o, then we recommerxlrnstallation of a hording tank ra ther than insraria-tr." .i ali-JiiIJ. rn anycase however, r.re want tc. insure that -septic :;;"* sltes are protected out inthe fi e.Ld and are not aLtered. in case tfr"y url removed or needed by theappr icant. rf the appi icant is Eo i;;ti J-ioro rr,9 rank, rhen the c15w ofEne contract with a ljcensed pumper stlould te pioviaea. Six, the uppfil.nrshall comply with aII the requ i rerents of the tiatershed District, riin artwirdrife ard DNR' Because the applicant "iir ; suhnit.ing a revised grading t
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City Counci I Meeting _ Novqrber 16, l98Z
plan, the Wa.ershed District approval will be necess€rry in that case. Theappricant wilr have to recei vs ih"ii-"uinir;tio.,. r,row, as to the wet,andalteration permit, council ?"d;;;;;'io a*,y rhat on May 4. 1987. rheappricant is proposing to plant g..!"- "Ji,i' thi. ur"u on a regurar basis inorder to pick up the barrs- from iJt* ;;";. Because this area has bee.farmed in rre pasE on a clnsisrent uu"i", -Juf f aia not
-ieer-itt'fr*ting
grass se€d periodicalry wogrd be aaverse'to the *"L"^.i ;;;".-''il";ilpared apermit to allow seed ing of t}le site. -; lL;'r" not cusistent rrith vrhat theCouncil feets $ras theii action * ,iv nl ifri, an*, that needs to becorrected' N'mber g, to insure --pi"tioi-Ji the- grading improvements and theparking rot improvennents Ti * o",',u" LX Gt.tr. applicant subnit a r.etterof credit in rhe amounr of r.rog.---fo;-d-^ ir-qr""*;S."i-itL-ilti'.L.rrnard made a cprriition tire ,oni.rg trd-il;.li!.,a*".ra to include the use thatthe hours of operation wourd G rr-"n-rriri"l-'io ",r*"a arrl therefore therewould be no Iiqhtirn ugeS }!at.was " .Gifi" cordition of approral.EinaIIy, there is i outstanding Uiff ln.u..J by Mr. Machmeier ani Mr.Anderson' we're requiring ttrt u" p.li'i-J E an additional review wourd benec€ssary for the mourrl septic.
"Vtl=r 1ii"" Ly-ord our clrrlent staf f , thatwould be necessarv that a coniition ti,ut ti,oJ rees would be paid by tneapplicanr arso ani thaE is -".i;l;r;';;at'""ir or our appricanrs foi any orour subdivision or any tyIE of uppr i.u"[ i"-& rurar area.
Ma)rcr Hamilton: r can think of- one question offhand. you said we wanted tohave curb in there. r guess r don't ie".ri - -ti,lt in tte -rurJ-;r; ;;.."ytlpe of a use like Lhis and r guess th.;;ry ;. r can think of that would befairly similar would t_ g1" 1i;i"-r=;;":.r".".' r don,t believe Ehar werequir=d curb arxl gutter rn Ehat area.
Barbara Dary: For Mr. Brownrs Ehere was I beL ieve the main access drives,J.ngress and egress points to the deveiog"#: ^
Hayor Hamirton: Right but not the whore, what you r^rould consider the parking
Barbara Dacy: RighE. Tri:!:-, was indicating that rhe curbing and the[Evrng ard the bitwrinous .issue was not even Jiscussed at tle ],ay 4thmeeEing. r r"ras mererv pointing o G;;;;;inance requires ir. Tha Epaved be Iined with cJncreEe curb so vor'* iorrli"tent with the ordinance.
Mayor ltamilton: Okay arxi_ I.vras. just questioning that wondering if thag.gconsistent witlt what we.do in tt* .r.J-...1.'^'ir ai,"a'= what our ordinance$ys, I guess that surprises me.
f;:::ii#"rr sraff has been consisrenr in recommending rhar rhar be
Mayor Hamilton: f,m sure. f: h:"" but my question is s!j.11 the same. Is itthe ord inance that it r,ould be instauJ''in=;; rural areas?
Barbara Dacy: your quesEion, have you approved it in the past?
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City Council },teeting - Novsnber 16, l9g7
Mayor Hamilton: !,tro, does it say that in the ordinance? Itrat rural areas putin parking for whatever use )Du're g"lng i;-rs", you have to have curb andgutter.
Barbara Dacy: the ord inance. does rpt specify if itrs urban or rurar. rt sal,=if you have a parkirg area, it has to b" pav& aro you have to have concretecurb.
Mayor H,amirton: Alright, so ttrat's something that the counci I courd decidewhether or not $re want to have that right? Statt is .*or..rr:i[-th";]h.appl icant do [xtt that in. Irm also curious about tJre wetlard rpi. Ihedfawirg- Sgt t o were showirg ,s there ard the portion i. d".r- i; =rfu="afythe t€tlard. !{tro' s def inition of the t€tlard ii ttratZ
Balbara Dacy: !{e asked the aFpl icant at that time, what we use as thedefini.tion of edge of the wetrard is where tie reed grass vegetation startsard stops- That eras one factor because the reed grass was piedominant in thisarea. the other reference that r,€ used rdas the otficiar orinhassen wetranismap that was on file. rhis part of the area does refrect on trre contouithat I s located on tie r,retlards rnap.
I'rayor Hanilton: What class Hetlani eras that?
Barbara Dary: It $ras a TIpe II, Class B.
I4ayor H,amilton: Is that tlre lowest grade you can get?
Barbara Dacy: Ttrcre's \pe I which is the loerest.
l'layor Hamilton: so it's next Eo the lowest ard Ehat area had i:een farmeri foryears if I remember correctly. I stiLl, in being consistent with what I,vesaid in the past, I don't be] ieve thaE's a wetlard ard I would like to see
some evidence if it is. r think tle applicant ought to be allowed use in thatarea. It may have been a weElard at one Eiine and John filld iL Right or$rrong itrs something that's been done. I think that he's said that ai thatfar north erd of that there is a porri or he wourd construct a pord that couldbe used as a wetLand or as a retention area for runoff Eo go into the creek.I rrould prefer to see that done since he's filled the area already, aLlow himto use it. I guess I have stated that previously and I still feel the sameeray. I think anybody would have a hard time going out there ard I don't careif it's l'lrs. Rockwell or our staff and proving thaE tlat is in fact a wetlanl.I donrt think therers any evidence out Ehere. Do council members have anyquestions of tlre staff?
courcilman Horn: Gle of the Ehings thaE we requested $rhen we reviewed thisIast time was to get a general poliry on allowing Ehis type of use from thePlanning Commission. I didn'E see any record that they -fraa given us aguideline on Ehis issue.
Barbara Dacy: As r interpreEted the Minutes after reviewing them, that topicwas discussed but then I ber ieve it was counci lman cevirg sayirg you have Eodecide on a particurar issue at hand tonight anl that two molions occurred.
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City Courci I MeeEing - Novqrber 16, 1987
249
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so that item has not been brought back to the pranning commi.ssion for revi.ewgiven Council rs action.
councilman Horn: rf you read further in the Minutes it said that, yes we hadto act on this issue this. evenirg. but part of our problem wit}l actiDr thatevenins was thar we didn't .tsyq "\. e"-i;;i.i;; ;#r;" =ii'i i!,.,lL. ,"should go back ard oer a. guideri* J d;;; tyIE of uses r.re shourd alro, arriwhere we shourd aliow .*riq -- iLt xi"a' .'t .rite.ia we shourd pur on thosekirds of uses. sDecificalry tt. ii""" or -a-,rJ.*tair,g
area had cqne Lp ardEhat is not addre;sed anywhere. foe .fso aeslri*a tf," fact that if yiu reaAour ordinance it doesn't arrow a gort cou;. ;ypL;i,i-.rirti?iii{ilo. .conditionar r:se permit-- ttrat wai anottrli on"1t ti," issues ttrac we wanted to3!!ress ^nd broughr bagk to us for us .o ;J';* Now we c@e back to thisrssue again ard we don't Fy" -y further iecommenOations or any furtter?oig:n:" on.rhis thing ani it ".6,n" i*"-*!iJ"-'ro=.;-i;;.;-J;,.-r;;;: r"[Y]: E::"*l,I:*tn' a policv on ti't ;;;. usuin-in"i.-Jli p'.I"=ri".,
Barbara- Dary: r guess r disagree because .'re five conditions that the councileventually approved were the -pecific .*or."rrlutio* of U,"-plinlriq-commission arrl tlev -rae a s$iit" "t
-t.^.iclying rhar ti," u.-iiiri buirdingof the commerciar iecre,ati";i "; ;;'ioi' u'ppropriate in rhe rurar area.But they did distinouish between driving ..nq;i and miniature gorf courses.They dectined to aci on tt. -g"il'i-r.*=i"'i#=u,*uuse
that was not brought upto them at that point at tnotlir l recair th; th" planning co.m iisio., aio s.y:l^a: thel wouLd- aII agree tha't a gorr coui; Joufa be allowed in rhe rurar
:=h.#".i::1ly r.,har trre councii r,s appi""J was rhe elannine comm-iision
counci knan Horn: thatrs Elue but what we also asked for was that the issue ofgolf courses in qeneral be addressJ ir taa*= ir our overalr ord inance anl rdon't bel ieve it has-
Barbara Dacy: yes, they have not addressed that but I guess I still don,tunderstard how that issue would rerate to it- eryzmus, application because rsg't#yr$? *l:::: ranse and miniature sorf 'crcurse-i;-;il;i; .Til.r,,".
Courci lman Horn: l.Jh^at you're telling us js that. there is_ no anomaly to theordinance to date. Thai rhis i. u ,3.y "i..i'li. ,.="u. rrcn our ordinance.
Barbara Dacy: ,Ihe Council -acted to approve the planning Commissionrecommerdation for the golf driving ranges arrr miniaturl ;;;^;;;'i.". Theydid not address a goJ.f course jssue at ill-
Councihan Horn: I understard thaE. Based on the current ordinance?
Barbara Dlcy: Right.
Councilman Johnson: As I.said in May, I think we- should allow at least theseed irq in that area Eo make the areJ useful. r do not think we should makemajor grading chanses to .JEE area. * sri.Ll, ,itn ri,L ;;;;.-:"H;il ,irr
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City Counci.I M3eting _ Novqnber 16, I9g7
function as a nutrient drain- the wetrard area. This is another example of howthe mt 5 corridor there needs i. b" i;kJ-;;: we are in rhar process, r
liff '**t* at the entire do$rnEown i; 'rH ;i'"" part of our comprehensive
John pryzmus: As far as i-f -I can have it, whatever you decide as far as thecurbirg r''e can qo ahead arrl- do trrat uul ;Li'; worked wittr staff is after the11 inches of rain, I $rent down Ur... -rri' *o-r.a that area a r,reek ard a halfrate! ard there erasnrt even any rdater there so_r'm not ,orriJ'uurt fiuingin the wet area ar atr. cre tiing u.,.ii r"rra like ro ei";"-;-Ot battingcage or our proposar the-re. was a uatting buiraing. rt ,i= Jolr-=-i "f,r['=, i *, ^yfinancing and that oroject $ras._to mat6 it ?inarciaffy feasible. I neededthe battirs "us" or't}6.irr:."i!tr1 ;;;;.il. As ra! as the densiry of rheare. a cpincides with miniature Si[ f ".rl driril;
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- th"t -"on, i .."uv s?; "f rTh"*=, t"'r*t1?"; #il,.Skmrio TAtbat buildinq as a utiliry ri"iiaingl Ifit-"liri be rhe only thins. other rhanthat, r won't be aoinq anithing ir-iru r.r.iJ.u.at alr other than seeding it.As far .as the grading permit,- -tf,"t go""-.io.g' *i ti, U," ,.__trrJnJifL" ,*w.e_ $ron,t. put any fiII in t'e low .r6u, ,.jtiiost knock down the one hi* ardlust grsh it to rhe back. rtrere wirr be a "eiv.ini*r. "*;.;';i;;.ii's onthe site' so if you would reconsia". iir."-iE'having a utility ruirding tomake it financially feasible. . .
Mayor HamiLton: Ihat's.
-an .entirely separate issue. I guess if you wanE thatto be reconsidered, vou'rl- have to -urirq it u*r "r .noir=.-tii"i--dlou r-.,"any problems with the c'orrr i t ions r thrdugh ro tr,"t were outtinea uy trrlconditional use permit? lrrere those conaii:.ons acceptable to you?
John pryznus: Ihe curbing anci?
Mayor Hamirton: there are l0 condj.tions- Have you had a chance to revre$,thsn?
John Pryanus: I didn,t_
Councilman tsoyt: Did you fiII in Ehe weElard?
John Pryanus: yes, I fil]ed in IErE of it.
Counci llan Boyt: Did you have a permit to do that?
John Pryznus: there isn't any wetrand on the property. r have a letter fromEhe DNR statirg that it's not a proEected wettarr:.
courci lman Boyt: werl the city crcnsiders it a lretlands and you fil,ed it inwithout a permit, is tllaE co_rr&t? r just want to get a clear status on ho$,
fr*=.r5."ertard. My unlerstarrlin{ is we Iosr t-he ,r..riJdu.Ie io,
l,layor ttamilton: IhaE's correct.
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City Courci I l,teeting - Novqnber 16, 1987
Councilman Bo!.t.: What }rou're basically askirg to do with the wetlards ardwhat the city proposes i.s a wettard, is to Ga it, mow it, i.;;t;iiiie anyother piec= of qround. I r,rould like to ask the staff, is tf,i= g-r,g 6'mp"a"it's ability to do r.tEt it,s doing ;; :-' *-
Barbara Dacy: when Dr. Rockwer-r visited the site rast spring, she conunentedi|lat + area -is really not TrinS u: a good place for habitat which is one ofthe criteria for a vretranc. rt's -main tirrti6n w"s servirg .. * i.o ro,recharge and a storm water retention area before it gets io i"r*r Joig ti,"ry:i{t.sidg of the property. staff felt that because -rh"re was dG;'L *additional fill 0r alteralion of tie propertv, -tt ut it r,rould continue to benaintained the way it was. in the last-serieri 'y.u.", that ',e felt that theseeding $,ould not affect that function "t iii-'-
Oouncilman Bo!.t: Now I he€rd solgthirg about an offer to build a pord on theProtErty as a holding porrr. r think tf,at's a reasonabre offer ard we shourdtake you r4) on that.
Barbara Dacy: that was-part.of the original r.retland alteration permit requestthat r4ras denied by the council so ir pu're proposirg to ao tn"lJ;'-*ourahave to reapply for that.
counci rman Boyt: ,or'' are you proposing ani t,ow would you rike to alter thatrdetlard any diffelentfy than wtrat -pu p-.opo* L do now?
John Eyanus: you means as far as building a pord?
Councilman Boyc: No, as far_ as Ehe particular wetlard. is that where you areproposing to build your porxi ? - .
John Eryznus: yes iE qDuld be down at the erxl of the road area.
RHi:-il ffJL.i*:?rt, so r.,har orher kirds of charses were you proposins
John Pryanus : ;1r I ',,ranE io do is just like r have there on the ser,rer.
Councilman Boyt: Do we have- any difficulty with him improving the wetlard?We seem.to have set a plecFeni inOicatlnj agreement to do that before- tiellJay, naybe when it gets.to be your turn yo-u
"-an "omr"nt on Ehat. Then ttreother situation r have i"-gn s: parkin{ rot.- es r .."a tn" iiiinunr.,' it'" ulittle differenE than sr-aff .i s-.inierp."itr.g it. It sa!,s on trEge L247, inmultiple famity, business, otfice and inaustriar .disEri;rs.
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in ..ryof those so it does state that a person neeos to have some "o.a oi ii!a'r..",alr weacher surface and c-oncrete turbing. Itrs rear sp"ciric as t-o
-"L're intln city ,,e can require rhar. r bel ievJ this is an agiicuttuJ ai.i.l"a,
t€yor Hamilton: It, s A-2.
Counci Lman BoyE: I think given tlre surface area, it probaby makes sense Eos.rt a concreEe curb arourd rhis bur r don'r rhink the'ciry l.Ji.JiJ [i, i."=it' r think i'E's kind of crrnmen *ni" ii -y"-oG gorng to put a hard surface
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City Courcil treeting - N-ovenber 16, I9g7
on that.much grourd to have some means of controrlirg the runoff from that.So Eo kind of suntnari ze where Iim at right .,orl-on tlre wetlarrl, iiyo,r."goirg to improve it, r can certainly be ionvinced that gradirg ard seeding isappropriate since it doesn't seem to interfere witn wtn'J iti"'a.r"q--;. onthe curbing, r'im okay with goirg on the cr:rbirrg whichevei ;;t y"i?.ni"i"".u*our ord inance doesnrt requiie iL as I read it. Hf,vrever, r ,-ouia certainty
l::I^::":-.:lllrry"..pr!tiry conglile curbirs arounl your parkirs area. MyDrggest corcern is that we'!re sitting in an agricultural irea afo ," i..producing what I think is goirg to be a treme:ndous traffic g.n".utoi. icollector_ into this trErticular spot. Blsiness week in the r-ast *ontr, n o -article that irdicated tha_t.minilture gorf courses are doirg quite $reri. rthink we see an example of that on rg i arr: Tfl lgr ard r think we shourd viewthis as a IErmanent structure. ard niE as a temporary structure untir sonethingbetter cromes_ along. I don,t know that ererve done J tlaffic study. Have wedone a traffic study?
Barbara Dacy: No v,e have not for this.
Councilman BoyE: I.gathe.r that we're saying werre preparirg to approvesomething that r think r"ril,r generate a gieal deal of Eraffi-c. rs'l countystudy done?
Barbara Ecy: the County has reviewed the site plan. Ihei r reclmmendation
vJas that the access be rocated 3go f*t to the north of the intersection.
Councilman Boyt: rttaybe people who are more familiar r"rith that lErticu.Larintersection than I am can add to more that.
Barbara Dacy: lve do have books upstairs from the InstiEute of Traffic
ftry ineers that estimate the amount of traffic to be generated fro:n miniacuregolf cturses and retail. uses and so on- I think when we went to througn tie
Process last sprj.ng the major concern was the batting building because Ehat
r.rourd generate more traffic on a consistent basis. The miniature gorf coursetraffic would be seasonal in nature. peak periods would be on Saturday arxi
Surday ard evenings.
Coudcilman Boyt: You're saying ,.rhen the traffic load wouid tend
on TH 5, this. . .
to i= Iighter
Barbara Dacy: It's considerably less than a retail use or commercialrecreational use.
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@urci lman Boyt: you don,t consider this to be clmparable with a retail use?
l,layor Hamilton: f guess if we did a treffic study it would probably show uswhat we already know and thatrs that rH 5 is overused and i.f we ta"L anotneruse arong the highway it's goirg to continue Eo overl-oad it some more. I haveno other comnents on tie trrro proposed iEsns before us.
councilman Bolrt: TtEn wetre saying we make Ehis amendment thaE anyone in Eheagricurtural area can come in and apply for a miniature golf coursl ana-a gorrdrivirg rarge?t
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City Council Meeting _ Novqnber i,:G, L9g7
Itayor Hamilton:
l4ayor Hamilton: Ihat.s true Bill.t nfortunateLy that's the case.
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l.rayor Hamilton: Right, as a cordiEional use.
Councilman Boyt: * *:i.1lr, $re.can only turn dor^rn a conditional usefiffiff . :t:" fiL',r.' =r iTr?,o""i'ia i'v' ""'n"'"'il''' o'" can' t do ii -;;.rII' .,*
conlitionar use has always given us a great dear of ratitude.
Roger tclutson: you have a.good. discretion on it. you canrt turn it downDecause rhe neishbors aon,f rixe ii:--d&;;; on *,"E. you have roexercise your oern judgment.
Councilman Hom: , Y=:: Iht onq of the requirements we pur on here isthat it be located adjacent to a major ..ii rr* an off street access.
3:::::-* Johnson: Froro a coLtecror or an alteriat. Not jusr an off_srreer
Councilman Horn: $ltrich will limit it to s le degree.
@uncilman Johnson: Ttrere aren.t that many sites who could develop this. We:ffilf:fl nr s ard M 2r2. -w;l;; ii'"n",iini.*is up to the entire e_z
Marrcr Hamirton moved ' councirman tbrn seconled .tg approve the zoning ordinanceH""HTr'.ffi Ti J:r,;. *q.-.11#,iIi Lr?,ii "L
r i on' : r a r lo .-i *'n j, i dr i v i nsesricurturJ-e"J#;:*::!-:E:.q,j..B,Rr=,"?i:"Si,..nl;*J j.'..**:;:standards for golf driving ranges with oi riinort miniature gorf courses:l. The Iocation of the drivirg range is limited g6 beirg adjacent Eoff":..H ffi ;r:..H .."."i.,n,!'i-u"?,.o. u "o,.cr;;;.;;;,jr which
2. llcurs of otrEration shall be frcrn sunrise Eo sunset.
3. provision of adequate.Frkirq areas aq.s*mission of lardscapingplan in conformance ,i tt, artici" viri..a the zoning ordinance.
{. }lc site shall be tocated ,rithin 500 fe(residence. _ rwo Le(r wrcnln 5go teet of a single family
5' the building to be constructed on any s-i Ee
-would be a maximum of g06square feet ard shalr be painted in l"im tone=.
AII voted in favor Jnd moEion carried.
Mayor namilton: rtem b.is to approve the conditi onaJ. use Fermit docunent.;f,:lrlj.ffii:.r;#.iff; n ti"-J.-..t""""Jt,. r0 items. r" *,..".1
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City Council l,teeti ng - Novsnlrer 16, I9g7
Councilman Johnson: Did the applicant get this?
Mayor ll,amilton: r don'|t think so. you'|ve been working with him ratherclose1y, itrs hard to bel ieve he hasnrt.
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Barbara Dacy:
received it?I know the lEcket was sent out to lrou on Friday. you have not
John Pryanus: rrve been out uorking at the site so r haven't gotten my mail.
Barbara Dacy: It was sent to the Saratoga Drive address.
councilman Johnson: litri re we have a slight break here, Bill was talking aboutthe rretlards down there. B1z improving the wetlards, I do have a sliohi-opinion on ttEt- rf we're not buirding the batting cage, which at this timewe arenrt, our amount of impervious surfacne being added to tlE alea areminimal. rtre amount of increase runoff tlnt would require an increasedhording pord should be minima.L. rf we can keep that area as an infiltrationarea versus a holding pond area, r personarry believe it wourd be best servedto keep it in the same use as lrhat nature hai it now. Not necessariry makirga holding pond in a wetland is an improvement to the r^retland in my oiinion.certain wetlards have certain purposes. This wetlard arrl the areJ ad-iacent toit appears to be a infirtration area. uirfortunately therers about a ioot ofdiEt in many areas on top of what used to be the wetlanls but I think if wedug deep enough we would find the wetland that was Ehere. At this time, if we
had approved the other buildirq there, then I r,rould be insisting r4>on aholding pond tc srow down tJre runoff going into the creek tnerJ uut at thisti;ne I don't think Ehere,s a great need Eo try to improve that wetland. Whenyou try to improve something, you someti.mes may screw it up.
CounciLman Horn: It's already broken.
Mayor tlamilton: But it,s broken like Clark says. It could be improved Iwould think dra'naEicarly because if you walk back there there's n;thing thereard it could be improved to be sorneth j.ng.
Councilman Johnson: Aesthetically yes bur hydraul ically Irm not sure if theimprovement wirt be any different. I haven'i seen any iacts or figures to sayit. As an area of infirlration ard recharge of grourri $rater, it will continuefurrction as such. you put it in as a pord and we have a better mosquitobreedirg area.
It-
Courcilman Boyt: the holding pond isn'E in the condiEion in the corrlition asit starrls. I would like to see it put in. I think it could help it improve -Mr. Pr]rzmus seems be willing to put it io. Is it acceptable to amend the$etlard alteration permi t?
the
Counci Lnan Johnson: t\te denied i.t .
Barbara Oacy: If you wanted to provide for a conditional use permit, youcould include it in cordition nrrnber I by saying, subrnission of a reviied
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City Council t4eeting - Novsrber L6, LggT
grad ing plan by December lst irrticating location of a holdirg porxt.
Mayor 'amilton: r gu:ss t was thinking of the same thing but r would like tosee John be encouraoed.to come b."k;;.r;;fst a wettaniuftlrriili!.*itagain showing what he's n"i.nn lo L -rTatr'Ii"='po*. r guess d kinr tt r*"to see because vou at one- tim-e agreea tilatlu wouta .do Ehat. Just improvethe pond in thdnorth.e"a. rrr."Gi.;i'r,'.il some idea or rh"Jli.s going roffi::TffS.what he's soirs l; ;; b.";*';'tt,l.* yo, ,o-,iii'Lirr'i*. .o
John Prlzmus: rrm working- witr Bilr Etgerhardt right no!, and vrerre working onthe changewer frqn the. riir"a-i.-"i"--''aT firt." p"- in there ard have himard the Dr'rR decide how bis "nd ;;;;#voiirn* it shourd be *rere.
I'layor tlam.il ton:. Okay, ard then that could te a oart ar u',_r'p[rana ar t.raaio; -#.-it
"*i"s G"*-.J^L?'.ff1;.:t.fi:: request ror a
#[ ff"trffirn';"Iiu"r'Sn: nic€ to have that as a cordition ir ].oud ret me
Mayor Hanilton: *".:l: Jro reason, if },ou r.rant you can ask for both of thoseagain' r can't terr vou to or not 'to r,if rilrrat,s somettrirry ]rou want to do,thatrs something you -haye to decide if v"r-,r"it to c.rome back and request oneor eirher or both, rhat's r.p d1.; i; irIi."iij.. requesr.
Counci lman Johnson: John, do }lou want this pond?
John pryzmus: I think as far as from the areame. q- ldr <r5 !!om Ene area, the pord isn,t going to hurt
Councilman Johnson: T:l *.r: the septic sysrems? you talked abour rheconversion there to a holdirg tanf< verlus1ili.r" systern.
Hil.rf"*er\o, there,s no change proposed with rhat. CondiEions 4 and 5
Courci lman Horn: i€ could include an asphalt curb.
Counci lman Johnson: I prefer to get sheet flov, off of the parking area.
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p* u r wa r er runo rr bu r
:L,"* .'.t r".3?:'.:o"'ins orr-oi1n-^J;;'il";r'i; ff:I "#.lT';i- ff..
Barbara Dacy: Ihat be addressed and revieq,ed by staff.
Mayor Hamilton: It seems.[ike vre always ta]k abotrt decreasirg the velocityard thar "purd seem rike that *ign[ Jo'i,or'-'^ ilr* iE doesn,t, I don,t know.
C.ouncilman Horn: [.et.s ].eave off everything r.ri ti curbs.
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City Council tieeting - Novsnlcer 16, I9g7
CONSIDERATION OE' ALLOI.TING HI]NTING NORTH OE' TH 5 , DNR CONTROLLED COOSE HTJNT.
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Gary Warren: InIe'II look at that vri th the plans that csre in.
l,layor tlamilton: I guess Ird be curious to krlow if it does or doesnrt.
@urcirman Horn moved, rrayoE Hanirton secorded to alprove the con itionar useFermit. Document as presenaed wit. the fo,owing ameocment to the firstcordition:
1. Suhnission of a revised. grading plan by December I, I9g7 showing theproposed Iimits of gradirg, methods of erosion "o.,i.oi ,h;;; --
necessary, irxiicating the revised size ard rocation of the parkingIot ard ctub house ard 150 feer from ttre centeiiire ;i il"E- it*d117, arr, proposed berm aleas aror:rd the grtting g.."n
"rrJ ;iiii*."golf c-ourse area. ft: p"lrire 10t shall be p.i"i.- - &ty-st"Ii-*,"[review and approve said plan prior to activiiy o""".ririg on Ge site.
AL1 voted in favor ard motion carried.
l'layor lramilton: we've had ?n opportunity to see one of these previously ardJim has made some recommendations to us.- Reading through .fim,irecommendations sayirq the urtimate sorution though may -be the erimination ofhunting all together within the city rimits of Ganhas-sen I couJ.dn,t agreewith ress- r don't think that'!s the uLtimate soluEion at arl. There ireareas in the city e/here ycu can hunt especially around Rice Marsh take orswamp or r.rhatever you call iL ltrere are a number of areas souch of TH 5 thaEare certainry acceptable for shotgun hunting of birds and fowr but perhaps notany Ionger of deer. .U though there is enough open space so I think slughunting is probably prerty safe arso but to-get- to the rear problem, ch5se ooggone _geese. PersonaLly I guess, unless everybody $ranEs a report from Jim, Iwould rearly rike to see us just say no huniing north of TH 5 p,eriod. iihetilerit's a special hunE or non-special- hunt so you don,t run into tlh= "...problens we did last time. Iha t '"ras . nress.
councilman Boyt: r think th3E we have a tremendous proorem wich the geese inthis city. As much as I r.ike to see. them fry, r undlrscand that " jo&--*u.ry
people don't like to see them on their yard and what they leave behind. Iwourd think that it is a difficul-t issue where we 3llow people to hunt northof TH 5. r agree with you by the lray on hunting south of TH 5. r think Ehatthere are stirr some areas where peopre shouLl be abl.e to hunt in Gnnhassengiven the level of deveLognent as iE is right no$r. I would 1ike to see usrook at some sort of reasonable guider j ne thaE Mr, chaffee could use in doinga pteri-minary screen on a request- wheEher iE'|s north or south. I r.rouldthink sqething in the neighborhood of L,ggq yards from any home.
l,layor Harnil ton: Feet or yards?
Councilman Boyt: No, yards. Itp reason I say yards is because that,sbasicalry the maxi mun carrying distance of a shotgun. rErs not qoir,g to "..rythere with any ability Eo do anything. Gentlemeo, I can assure that-it you t
3q
portton of such lot shall extend bevond
the frftv r50r foot hmrtatlon. the dis-
trict boundarv hne shall prevarl. Ap-
peals from the ZonrnE Admlnlstralor's
determrnahon and questions of doubt
concernlnF the exact locatron of dis-
trict boundarv lines shall be heard bv
the Board ol Adlustments and Appeals.
i.(X Compliatrcr. Except as may oth-
er$rse be provrdd ln Section 20. Non-
Conformlng Uses. all buildings or struc-
tures ereated her€after all us€s o[ land.
bulldrnEs or structures established here-
after. all structural alteratlon or reloca'
Iton of errstrng burldinFs or structures
occurrlnP hereafter. and all enlarPe-
ments of or additlons to exlstlng build-
in8s. structures or uses occurrinE hereaf-
ter shall complv wrth all regulations of
thls ordrnance $hich are applicable to the
zonrng drstrrct rn whrch such burldrng.
structure. use or land shall be located.
SECTIO:i 5. R.IT AGRICULTURAL
RESIDE:\CE DISTRICT.
6.01 Purposc- The R-lA Agricultural
Residence Drstrtct is tntended to p.ovide
a distnc *htch !^tll allow extenslve
areas of tr.e Vrllaee to be retalned ln a
lower populatron densltv rn advance o[ the
need for these lands for exteoslve urban
purpos€s and to prevent the occurrencc of
premature scattered urban development.*hich would be uneconomtcal from the
standpolnt ol muntclDal servtces. uUlttles
and schools.
_ 6.02 Perm[ted Ures, Within an R-lA
lEncultural Dlstflct. no burldlnE or land
shall be used except tor one or more ol
the followrng us€s:l. Single famrlr d\aellrngs.
2. Agnculture Ane enclosure. stable. o.
other burldlng in which farm animals.
includlng bees. are kept shall be a dis-
tance of not less than 100 feet from anv
other lot rn a Resrdenttal Dtstnct
6.03 Accessory Us.s. Wtthin an R,ll
Agrrcultural Drstnct. the followins uses
shall be allowed as accessorv to the per.
mitted use:l. Prrvdte garages.
2. Prrvatelv o\ned swimming pools and
tennrs courts foa the use and convent-
ence o[ the resldents oi the permitted
use-
3. Structures accessorv to an agncultural
permrtl.ed use.
one.half r2-l 2r acres. which shall ad-
Jorn a publlc road or a vlllage street.
6. Lor Widrb .!d Depti ReSuli.liors:
a. Every lot or tract ot land on which
a sinSle familv dwelling is erected shall 2
have a depth not Sreater than two Umes
the wrdth.
6.06 ParLinS.l. Not less than two (2, automobile park-
ing spaces shall be provrded on the site
occuprd b!, the permrttd use. Ade-
quate space shall be reserved on the
site to allow for the constructron of a
two car garage-
6.07 Cen€rel Regul,ations.l. Additronal regulations in the R-lA Ag-
ricultural District are set forth in Sec-
tion 19.
-/, 6.Ot noundarics ot rhe R-lA AS.iotlau.-
al Dislricr.l. The boundaries of the R-tA Agricultu.-al Distrrct shall rnclude the followtng
descrrb€d tracts and parcels oI land:
SECTIO:{ ?. R.I SINGLE FAMILY
RESIDENCE DISTRICT.
7.01 Pu.pose. Thei R-l SinSle Familv
Residence District is\ntended to provid€
a distflct which wrll allo* restdential
development in those arcas whcre such
development fits the Vilhge land use
plan-
0, ?.02 Pcrmiaaed Uscs. I9thin an R-l
Resrdcnce f)istflct. ho building or land
shall be used except for the followtnR us€'l. SrnFlc f amrlv d$elhr*\. l. l+ O
7.0J A(c€ssorv Uses. Wrthin Jn R.l
?.05 Hcight, Ya.d, Are. .tld Lot Widrh
aDd Depth Regulatiors.l. HciSha R€guleriols:
a. r.-o singl€ famrly dw€lling shall
exceed two and one-half r2-l 2)stones.
Front Yard RctuLlions:
a. There shall be a front vard having
a depthol not less than thirtv rm, fect-
3. Side Ya.d Regultions:
a, There shall be.a side yard havrng a
depth o[ nol less than ten r l0r feet.{. Rcar Ya.d Rcgulations:
a. There shall be a rear vard having
a depth of not less than thiitv r30r feei
from the d\*elling to the rear propertv
line.
b. There shall be a rear vard havtng
a depth of not less than t;rl rl0r feet
from any detached accessorv use struc-
ture to the rear propert!- line.
5. Lot Area Regulalions:
a. In areas served bv publlc water
,nd sanrtarv se*er svstems everv lot
or tract of lind on whrih a srngle famrly
dwelhng ts erected shall contatn an
area o{ not less than ls.Om square feet.
ex servd bv
s
operaled lor commercra I purposes. ence r{ the resrdents of the permitt€d
5. Cemeacrres use.
6. Cornmerclal .adio and television trans- 3. Rental of .oorns for occupancy by not
missroo stairons. more tlun two persons per dwellinS
7. Livin8 quarters for persons employed unlt. except that no separate dwellin8
on tlle premrses of the permrtted use. unit shall be allowed ard that one ofr-
8. Greenhouses. tool hooses ard srmilar street parking space per tenant shall be
structlres accessorv to a private resr- , provrded.
dentral us€. &r ?.lX Uscs bv Coriitiollal Usc Pcrlrit.
6.05 Hcittr. Yard, ArG., .nd Loi //,Withrn an R-l Resrdence Drstrrct. the fol-
Widah.d D.prh R.trl,.tio,ls. l4lowing uses may be allo*ed but only uponl. Hcitit Rcpltioa.: fllh€ securing of a Cordittonal Use Permit:
a. No single tamrlv dwelling shall' t. Parks and recreatronal areas owned
exce€d twoand one.hall r2-l 2, stories- and operated by governmenlal units
b- All othr structures shall not er- and recreatronal areas operatd b:, res-
ceed twent:/-five r25r feet in height. idential nerghborhood associations.
Nor}.prolit sch@ls having a re8ular
cqrrse of studv accredited by the State
of Minnesota.
Government oryrEd and operat€d cieic
and orltural instiurtions includinS, but
not limrted to. admrnistrative offices.
librarres. public safety buildings. and
places of assembly.
ercept when accessory to an agrrcul' 12
turalpnncrpal use. I
2. Froni Yard' Rcgulations: .t
a. There shall bc a tront vard hav.ng (3
a depth ol not less than frttv r50 r teet. {3. Sid. Yard Rc8uLtions:
a. There sh;ll be a srde yard on one$
slde havrng a depth of not less than one f
hundred rt00r fe€t. and a side yard on ,t\ GolI courses. but not including driving
the other srde havrnt a depth of not iess .l 'Iees. rrnges. or mrntature golf courses
than t€n I l0 | feet. Y oD€rared for commerclal purposes-l. R.ar Yrrd RctuLtions: a--$. Churctres
a. There shall be a rear yard havin6i\. Llyrn* quarters for persons employed
adeptho[notlessthanfifty(50)feet. v\ on the premrses o[ the permr tted use.
5. Lot Arca RcguLaionsi C\Y. Greenhouses. tool houses and similar
a. Every lot or tract of land on whrcN structures access{rrv to a private resl-
a sin8le famllv dwelllng rs erected shall - dentral use.
contaln an area of not less than two and 8. Amateur radio transmission antennas-
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.l Stinds for ag cultural products pro. B.duccd on the premrses bv the on ner
6.tx t'ies by Condirional Use Pcrmir. y'r
Wrthrn an R-l A Agr!(rltural Dis]rlct, tl,te
folloryrnl uses may b€ allowed but only
upon tlE secunnS oa a Conditional Usc
I'ermrtl. Parls and recreatloMl areas or{od
and rperated by Sovernmental unrts
aad resrdentral ncrShborhood assocta-
trons
2. ]\.,on.pro(rt schools. rncluding colleSes.
havrn( a reSular course of studv ac-
credrtrtd bv the State o{ Minncsola.
3. Government owned and ogeratd crvlc
and (rrltural Instttlttrons tncludtng. but
not lrmrted to. admtntslratlve offlces,
J. A.^<.,&r:{ i -Y
r3, rr, .f rry*.r<.f 4'l - t]r\
th€-anmrB{e--lof--sre H lT-EeTarver-
ened-+y the p.ovrsrons of Section
.rll4tr-Jrrtrcf {ne+!bdr++siotQrdi nilae
ol.lhefilfrBeof-€hien+sseo. --
6. Lor Widthand Depth Regulations:
a. F:verv k)t or tract of land on which
a srngle famrlv dwelhng ts erected shall
have a wrdth of not less than 90 leet at
the burlding set back ltne.
Restdence Drstflct. the followtng uses 7.06 Parlin*
shall be allowed as accessorv to the Per- l. .\..ot less than fwo 12r automobale Parkhbrarres. pubhc satetv buildtngs. ard mrtted t se ing spaces sh.ll b€ provided on the sit(places o[ assemblv l. Privale garages o(cupled bv the permltted use. AdeColI colrases. but not tncluding drtvtng 2. Privatelv owned swtmmtng pc)ls and qulte space shall be reserved on th(tees. rantes. or mtnEture gol( coarases lennts coorts for the use aird convenr-of.
I rlnqle ,l : 4l -4. etlr,l un.|1 7.,1a e nle
J Aaenl 5 .4zr"ri 8, A,lL"&Sr:c.57,4ffid1l^ fln ",lcL'. 47 hS /O. D,tt e nt;,t I
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tr. A'..,dr N J7-6F .,t.llnt,tl*l I
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CITY OF CHANHASSEN
CARVER AND HENNEPIN COUNTIES, MINNESOTA
ORDINANCE NO. 8 O-E
AN ORDINANCE AMENDING ARTICLE V, SECTION 3 (4) OF THE
ZONING ORDINANCE NO. 80, ADOPTED FEBRUARY 19, 1987
THE CITY COUNCIL OF CHANHASSEN ORDAINS:
SECTION I. Article V, Section 3, (4) Conditional Uses in theE:71-Ig;Tcultural Estate District, of Zoning Ordinance No. 80,
adopted and amenaled heretofore, is hereby amended to read asfollows:
10. Golf Driving Ranges with or without miniature golf
courses
SECTION 2. Article v,Section 9 (14) Standards for Conciitionalto read as f ol-Lows:Uses is
14.
hereby amended
GoIf driving ranges $rith or vrithout a miniature golf
courses:
CHANHAS SEN
AS
Uayor
I987
A
C
The location of the driving
ailjacent to TH 5 and TH 212
collector or arterial 'rrhich
range is limited to being
and. access must be from a
leads to TH 5 or TH 212.
B. Hours of operation shall be from sunrise to sunset.
Provision of adequate parking areas and submission of
Iantlscaping plan in conformance with Article VIII of
the zoning Ordinance.
No site shall be located within 500 feet of a single
family residence.
Buildings on the site may not exceed 800 square Eeets
and sha11 be painted in earth tones.
SECTION 3. This ordinance sha1l become effective from and
afEer the daEe of its Passage an d official PubIicatsion.
ATTEST :
D
E
Don Ashworth,
Published in
C l-t.y l,lanager Thomas L. H am1 lton,
the souEh Shore Weekly News on December 17,
4d
Passed and adopted by the Chanhassen City Council this 16th
day of November, 1987.
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April19
REVISI(
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CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
JANUARY 6, l98g
Chairman Conrad caI Ied
TimMEMBERS PRESENT:
the meetjng to order at 7:35 p.m..
Erhart, Steven Emmings, Ladd Conrad and David
Head 1a
MEI.IBERS ABSENT:
Ba rbar a
Knutson,
Robert Siegel, Howard Noziska and James Wj ldermuth
Dacy, City Planner iCity Attorney; and
Jo Ann O1sen, Asst. CityLarry Bro$/n, Asst. City
WETLAND ALTERATION PERMIT TO CONSTRUCT A CHANNEL AND BOATA CLASS A WETLAND ON LAKE LUCY ON PROPERTY ZONES RR,RURAL RES IDENTIALAND LOCATED ON LOT 5 BLOCK 2, LAKE LUCY HIGHLANDS, ERIC R IVKI N,APPLICANT.
TURNAROUND IN
Jo Ann
Permi t
Olsen presented the
request.
staff report on the Wetland Alteration
Erhart:
wetland
wet l and
Erhart:
surround
there?
Olsen: Yes. He
Erhart: Okay, solots in that areato wa ter?
Olsen: These are
subdivision.
On Lake Minnewashta we allowed docksthere recently? A boardwalk and docks.or how far from the high lrater mark?
to go through an existing
How wide was that
Olsen: I don't have the exact number but it wasn,t thi.s long...
Do you have a better map that sholrs the whole area of thelots wj.th you? Show where the wetland, is it the black ij.ne
has this high
the coloredessentially the wetland.
same problem
Okay, so all theof getting through
Iand.
a rea
ha ve
1S
the
exi.sting lots. These are not part of the
Erhart: Part of what subdivisi.on?
Olsen3 Part of Lake Lucy Highlands.
Erhart: And all the letters that we received or that vrerewith this in favor of it, can you mark those lots on th;;;.
subm i tted
Olsen: I
other one
Erhart:
east and
believe those are mostly fromhave the wetlands is Lot 4...
And all the other lotsouth were noti fied?
Lake Lucy Hj.ghlands. The only
owners on the right there and on the
STAFF PRESENT:
F-lanne--T6g-er
Eng i neer
Olsen: Yes.
if they did.
A few of them were going to come tonight. I don't know
Erhart: Wer re not
Conrad: It I s not a
hav ing
public
a public hearing for what reason?
hearing but I plan on entertaining comrnents.
little more interesting to have any comments
discussion?
Erhart: Wouldnrt it be a
first and then handle our
Conrad: I kj nd of thought tha E we may br jn
public would Iike to hear and they can reacthe Commission first -
9upt to
some issues that the
so I eras going th r ough
Erhart: Okay, thatrs one thing I'd like to hear what anybody here on
the shoreline, what their thoughts were. Much more so than the people
not on the lake. I don't know if that has a significant influence on
what my opj.nion would be on this.
Joe Monnens: I li.ve on the Iake and I did in fact submit one of the
letters in favor of the proposed channel. I guess my reason for that
is I think a channel rrould be less of an i.mpact on the aesthetics of
the area than would a boardwalk. I can see a 460 foot dock
deteriorating over not too many years plus the dangers to deer and
other kind of wildlife and snowmobiles and cEoss country skiers, people
that use the area. So Ehat rras my reason for supPorting the proPosed
alteration.
Joe Monnens: It seems a person wj.th Iakeshore has a ri ght to acce s s
the lake so way or the other something has to be approved.
Erhart: I
approved?
one
donrt
Conrad: Legally a person has the ri.parian right to get to the water.
Roger do you want to help me on that?
Roger Knutson: Generally speakj.ng if you own a abutting lot, you have
certain rights but you have the right to regulate that to not darnage
the r.retland.
know if that's true i.s it? Something has to be
Joe Monnens:
the sense of
boardwalk or
I don't know if therers any J-egal rati.onale but Ijustice that a person should have access and either
a channel so I thought a channel would be better.
felt inbea
Planning Commj.ssion Meeting
January 5, 1988 - Page 2
Erhart: Joe, it appears from the letters tbat all the comments vrere
comparing a dock versus a channel and given the question of anything at
all, what would be your response? I think you have to have a perm j.t to
do a dock or a channel.
Planning Commission Meet ingJanuary 6, 1988 - page 3
Olsen: No, that wasHe's always wanted a
Erhart: So this whole i.ssue then, is it coming do$rn to we eitherapprove the channel or dock? Is that what youire saying because thati.sn't the way r remember thj.s discussion tha last tj.me?-
Conrad: we can actually reject all options and say that the eretlandand the ordinance is to maintain a criss A rdetrand and no degregationto it at all. options to that are as requestld-by l,i. .ppii..nt.
Erhart: r think what lm hearing Ehough is tbat if it comes to it andEric wants to buird a dock out hlre u"io"" 4ao feet of this, he can dothat?
conrad: r donrt think we have to grant that but r think we're findingtechnical support to say that itrs not that detrimental to a wetrand
?ld.,r" also have precedent saying we have granted docks over wetlandsrn tne past. We havenrt granted any dredging to a wetland yet sinceour ordinance went in so- what this is, itis ieally a precedint on hor{rde $,ant to treat wetlands in chanhassen. obvious'ly, ttu-.ppri".nt hassome caus-e..for requesti.ng it. rt's a unique situation. wl'ir, " n"r.,seen one 1ike this be_f oJ? and applied the -ordi.nance to i.t lut : t wouldset a precedent and I think that,s really whaE the issue is Tim.
Emnings:. Can I just as.k as a fol1ow up, because thjs is rightsame subject, has he asked us to consiier a boardwalk if we,rewi11in9 to give him the channel?
s.taff 's opti.on for providing some means of access.channel and not necessarily a boardvralk.
on the
noE
Conraal: Mr. Rivkin, do you want to talk about that?
Eric Rivkin: This is a copy of a retter from a neighbor to the lrest.He vras unable to attend but he had some comments about the issue. Lasttime we met the pranni.ng commission-"on"rrrr"a that r was goln9 to haveto bring somethi ng up to give .u u p... it so that there wJs no argumentas to r.rhich had an impact, which wai deCrimental "rJ-rt,i.i,-"as minimarand so forth. I !,ras told that I had to give one pf., in.l hras approvedthat- settled the technicar issues and I aid. rrreie ;'s-a-ieirnit. weshouldn't have Eo stand iere and argue whether fish and wildrife andprantrife.are endangered. we shoul-iln,t have to argue whether whi.chconstruction method, erosion contror methods are bttter.- wr snouran,thave- to argue whether loosestrife j.s go j.ng to run rampant. '
I^Ieshouldn'!t argue whether a channel has less or more detrimentar impacttban the dock or which method is more reasonabre una". *y-iightfutaccess to the lake- Because the DNR and the watersnea nive'rev;eweathese issues and settled those arguments whicn conio;; ;it; the permiEand special provisions. Between the two agenci es tireie'were 6 to L0,mavbe even r2 experts in fish and wirdrife-and ;i";I;-;J-r,|a.orogyand engineerjng that.r-eviewed my proposal. f myself would .not
recommend a channel if r-had thought this project or ""r""d"nt"projects under the precedent wou16 cause any major "r,uiaonir"ntar roses.
Plann j. ng Commission Meeting
January 6, 1988 - Page 4
If I had a short d j.stance to go, a dock would be no question. It i^rouldbe certainly more reasonable but planning staff had only one opinion.
One person. Dr. Rockwell, in opposition to the opini.on of many, manyother experts. I'm not at all in agreement with her comments. If youlook at her letter, I believe it's page 1-B or item 1-B in the package,she states, 'r?he proposed channel would destroy a substantial portionof emergent eretland assocj.ated hrith Lake Lucy at the project site."
She also states that a single access channel would probably notsjgnificantly reduce resources for fish and erildlife who's reproduction
depends on the wetland. However, the cumulatj ve effect fron more thanone such project could cause major losses that cannot be replaced ormitigated. Her key words here are significant and major. I'd like toIook at the scenario on the overhead here. As the plan stated, this isthe designated vretlands around Lake Lucy. The area is approximately
60 acres. My lot is right here. I believe she is jncorrect in sayingthat alI the lots would have the same problem of access. That is nottrue. I superimposed the lot lj.nes, exjsting lot lines on the wetland
area map to show exactly, and f went door to door at each one of theselots talking about this proposal and asking their opj n j.ons of a dock
versus a channel and solicitj.ng opinions and I asked them if they had
access or not. Out of all the lots that have solid lj.nes around here,are existing lots that either have access, either with clean lakeshore
or an existing channel which is grandfathered jn before the wetlands
ordinance was passed, or they have, in this case, Ietrs say of this lot
here that hasn't sold yet, this outlot, it has such a short distance to
go that there's no question, it's onLy about 50 feet to open water,
that a dock is obviously the solution for them. AII these resj.dents
around here, except this one, all of them around here have access.
Even jf this island were divided into lots, that would have access so
there's no option for them. If thereis no residence there now, therers
no reason why they wouldn't need a dock or a channel in some cases.
The lots that are starred, existing lots lhat are starred, are lots
with potent j.al access with channets because there is a long way to go.
Lot 4, Lot 5, have the longest to go, roughly 4AA feet. The otherpotential lots, 1et's say if Prj.nce subdi.vides and with the 10 acre
minimum rule in effect, I drew in dotted lines here to simulate
proposed lots. okay, let's take that scenario. Let's add up all the
channels. If every one of these lots had a channel, vJorse case, we
added them alI up. The eretland area j.s 60 acres, there's 21/2 mj. llion
square feet. If we add up all the lenghts of the channels multiplied
by the $ridth of my proposed channel which is 16 feet, thatrs 2T,AAA
square feet. Thatrs 8/l-6Bhts on I percent of the total of the
designated area. I hardLy calI that major or substanti.al lmpact. Ifyoufre talking about my IoL, which i.s only 7,6A0 square feet and nobody
else puts in channels, we're only talkjng about 3/Lgthts of I percent.
That's not even close to being substantial or major. Now I confronted
Dr. Rockwell at the lot. She came and visited the lot and I eras
supposed to meet her. I confronted her with this information. Ididn't have the numbers but I had the same opinion and she said that's
for the DNR to decide. Whether that's minimaL or detrimental. Itrsnot my jurisdiction. She says Irve been just asked to come out here
Planning Commission Meet i ng
January 5, 1988 - page 5
Erhart: Explain the materials thaEwalk on this in the summerti me nowcattails?
you are removing here? Can youor you canrE? you canrt. Is it
and give my opinion. So the DNR has decided and they decided j.t isminimal- she arso states in reference to concern over pollution fromtreated wood docks from boardwalks. she subm j.tted Biologjc andEconomic Assessment of pen tachroropbenor, rnorganic Arsenicars. Theseare hazardous chemicals that are found in treated vrood. I alsosubmitted the same type of information from the EpA i.n my report andshe says avairable information suggests that pollution fiom pressuretreated wood material for docks and boardwalks is minimal. irris islike saying that the availabre information on DDT and aebestos \.ras safeat the time the information was avai labre but now vre know better andhave learned from the past before itrs too late. There is no saferever of any hazardous substance. rt just depends on the variousIevels of harm. So I betieve that with the nNn, with thei.r staff,werre in an excellent position to assess the environmental impact ofthis plan- ThaE the. opinion of the pranni.ng staff doesn't carry muchweight and r think that a channel should be arlowed to proceed.- anyquestions? r have some direct comments about the dock itserf but rsubmj tted some reports, comments about the dock and if you havequestions about those directly I can ansvrer those.
Eric Rivkin: rt'!s cattaiLs and soft grass. There are 1itlle mounds ofdirt and r took a core sample in the summertime. The soJl graduallygoes dorrn and sloges of f at about 4 feet at the water, a, to A f e,-t atthe rr,aterline, and starts from 0 at the high water mark. it,s roughry808 water. AII these spoils would be removed upland.
Erhart: Okay,this is really a process of nutrification?
Eric Rivkin:
so
Tha t issue is kind of moot now.
Erhart: Why?
Eric Rivkin: Last time vreIake and we $rere not j n anywerre not experts so lre hadI took Ehe arguments to theand the Minutes of the last
argued about nutrificatjon anC fate of theposition to argue that because r,re saidto get the DNR experts to decj.de tllj s. SoDNR,. they got a copy of the city,s reportsmeeting, it was all put jn and...
Erhart:get into
Er ic Ri.vkin:to defend. . .
Thatrs not the reason Irm questioning it.a technical discussion.Irm not tryjng to
Erhart: I'm just trying to understand rrhat this area isthis whole question is one of more practical things Iikeif yourre going to allo$, channets oi if you're going to
f donrt want to be put in the avrkrrarC positjon of tryj.ng
I i. ke. To ne
aesEhetics and
al1ow
Planning Commission Meeting
January 5, 1988 - page 6
Olsen: Clearingts not allowed unless you have a perrnit.
Erhart: What's the issue !,rhen a guy goesessentially it's real swampy and he wantsthat today in the City of Chanhassen?
essent ial1y -landscaping, whi.ch you have there, as opposed to a dock,than you're dealing, I think wiih aesthetic issues ind to ..,exchanging this nutrification area for open srater, who's going to arguer,rhether thatrs better or $rorse for wildlife. uy opinion,-i.n thatparticular area you could use a Iittle more open water. So from awild}ife standpoint, I'd favor the proposal. What Irm trying tounderstand is, are you rea_lly removing- nutrification or "i" you goingin and creating a new pond hLre?
Eric Rivkin: rtm creating more open water by virtue of the fact thatrrm taking out sorid materials and adding maleriar and taking it away.But that end of the rake is so chokea wittr vegetati.on...rf you want toget into that kind of argument...
Erha.rt: what yourre proposing isn't a r.rhore rot trif ferent than a guycoming along and saying r want crean lakeshore which r think, is tliainot a common practi.ce? rf someone buys a lot on the lake, they can getapproval to go in there.
in and
to put
buys a lot and
i n a beach. Can he do
Olsen: Not i.n the wetlands.
Erha(t: What happens if j.trs just
Can he do that then?
a Lake and it.s got a weedy shore?
Olsen: He has to get permissJ.on from Ehe DNR. Therers a dj.fferencebetween a weedy shore and vretland.
Erhart: You might find this case, a weedy shore supports more wi ldljfethan this. It's a different type of wildlife.
Eric Rivkin: The issue of supporting wildl j.fe, was addressed at the
DNR and I had to remove some pond j.n this cases because the Fisheries
Department feared that because the pond was maybe better than the lake,in terms of oxygen and cleanl j.ness, that the fish would want to gothere, spawn, stay all wjnEer and d ie. So they said, you've got tokeep things real shallow and yourve got to keep them unliveabie...
Erhart: I guess I quesEion jn thjs particular thing that perhaps it i.sa better alternati.ve. Perhaps it is a better alternative than a dock.My concern is probably, if we're going Eo look aE thjs as analternative to a dock in these situations, is to review what the hrorsecase would be if these things, j.f we start seeing a lot of these. Dowe need to sit down and perhaps write up a guideline? If there aresome real bad ramifications that happen, not Er j.c's by hi.mself , butletrs say the next guy $rho wants to do it and the next guy and think
PIanni.ng Comm j ssi.on Meeting
January 6, 1988 - page 7
that process through. I think thatrs the question in my mind here.Im not opposed to this project because r think it's potentialry betterthan a dock. The concern would be, where do we go from here. Maybeafter talking some more, it might be a question.
Emmings: Irn opposed to the channel and Irm going to try and explainmy reasons why. This, Iike last time, is a very djfficult issue in mymind. I had a hard tj.me comi ng to a decis j.on on this one. Mr. Rivk inhas done a lot of work preparing his case. Mobilizing neighborhoodsupport, making graphics and everything else and in a way I almost feelIike rewarding him for his effort alone because itrs impiessive. Onthe other hand, I'm totally not persuaded by his arguments that thereare many experts on the one hand and one expert on the other because wecan choose to bel j.eve whichever expert we think makes the most sense nornatter how many there are on one side or the other. I,m also notpersuaded by the fact that there have been oEher agency approvalsbecause I think we have the right to be str j.cter than those agencies inour own backyard. I donrt really ljke a dock going over 400 feet. Itseems like j.t's too darn long to me. I think it may be a liabilityhazard. May be a hazard to snowmobiles, deer, whatever. I don'treally like the dock. In a \ray I f.ike the canal, in this particular
case maybe better than a dock but. Iim agajnst a canal for t.he solereason that wetve got a wetland policy that says we're going to protectthe wetland and we're not going to alLow dredging. we never haveallowed dredging and I don't think we ought Eo open it up. I think
erhat we did on Lake l.linneerashta on the subdjvision right across fromthe entrance to the Arboretum and j.E would seem to me that if we give
Mr. Rivkj.n his canal on Eh j.s case, we would have no way to defend notgiving it to a developer there. It seemed very clear I think, therewas nobody on the comm iss j on who supported allowing any dredging onLake Minnewashta in a cattail area where they were going to haye 4 or 5openings. The Comm j.ss j on was very unified in not wanti.ng them to dodredging in that type of an area. I can see no distinction betrreenthat case and thjs one. I th j.nk given the statement on intenE of thewetland protection regulation, given our past actions, we simply haveno choice here but to deny the channel. If that means that his onty
access then is by dock, then I'm in favor of that because I think he
should have access to the lake. Thatrs basically my position andrationale for it.
Headla: I see so many people taking wetlands a$ray from us and notputtj ng anythj ng back. Why j.s jt you want to put in a channel but you
clidn't creaEe ljke donut that 'nre see jn so many slews for like geese or
an isolated j.sland? Only if you r,rere really j.nterested in wildJ.ife,that would have been an ideal setup with a channel .
Eric Rivkin: My first ProposaI...
Headla: That lrasn't your first proposal.
Eric Rivkin: Not to have an isLand in the middle but...
Planning Commission Meeting
January 5, 1988 - page 8
Headla: Thatrs what r'm talking about. An isrand there for wirdrife.
Eric Rivkin: It's extremely costly. The DNR said that I had tominimum of 150 feet in diameter to do that... I have the rightreasonable access. .If I- have to pay Sg,gAO.gA to dig...it r.rouldabout 3 acres plus the channel accor:ding' Eo department standardscreate an island...
Headla: I see you are using economics as ooe of your rationales why itshould be a channel. $22.99 a foot for the nucking and, 944.00 p"r iootfor the,dock- why did you have the dock almost twlce as rong a! thechannel ?
Er ic Rivkj n: I had a bid, I was amazed at hor., high it-r.ras myself but Ididnrt $rant to fool around. r wanted to present valid inforiation so rsent the letter out with a sketch of the plan and had those.
90 a
to
beto
Headla: As I understand the bids,
239 foox channel .
you asked fox 43fr foot dock but a
Eric Rivkin: ...and with a dock I don,t want to go$rant it to sidestep over a bit so you have to puIIplus you have to have some out in the water to putequivalent of 430 feet.
HeadIa: There yourre getting dovrnthat out but it costs 944.60 a foot
straight out. I
back a I i ttle bita boat. So the
4AA feel?
of swamp.
$10.06 a foot to mucka dock .
Headla ! So that mucking cost estimate is for
Eric Rivkin: Thatrs because therets 4OA feet
to
to
roughlyput in
Eric Rivkin: I got a solid bid...
Head1a: I couldnrt get ahold of Serv-a-Dock butdock builders who thought that was an extremely
Eric Rivkin: Serv-a-Dock did not rne a bid.
HeadIa: I think they gave you therefused.
give
bid
I di.d talk to tr.ro otherhigh cos t.
and Bi. l1 Niccum was the one who
Eric Rivkin: Bill Niccum refused and waterfree did not, they gave mean estimate but Ehey wourd not give me a written estimate so il wasinvalid.
Headla: rt just seems awfurry strange to me that you could do muckingfor one-fourth the cosE of putting in a dock.
Eric Rivkin: Itrs about 3 days worth ofa professional whors been doing dredging
work and at
and has the
these rates, I hadproduct for many,
Planning Commission Meet i ng
January 6, 1988 - Page 9
Headla: You
wetlands?
were concerned about putting in some treated wood j.nto the
Eric Rivkin: I said, with the $L9,gg6.go dock, it would be a dockwithout poisoning. . .
Headla: I{erve talked about putting treated wood j.nto the wetlands and
werve had concerns about it. There's no documented data to say it isnot safe. We have not been able to substantiate to say you canrt do itand until that becomes available werve got to say, hey, jt is
perm j. ss ibIe.
Eric Rivkin: I realize that if you want to have a dock. I care forthe environment. I don't r,rant to put arsen j.cals in the Iake. ThaE,s
my choice. I'd rather put galvanized metal posts j.n.
Headla: We're all for that. Everyone on the commission, I thinkthatrs why we're here, partly, because we do support that. type ofthing. Anyway, I look at that classy dock, 42 inches wide and I thinkyou went first class on that. I have a hard time doing that. Overall,I support the dock over the channel. If we put in one channel, }row inthe world can we deny it to other people? Werve Ia id the baseline, Ithink j.trs reasonable and I think werve got to stick with it.
Conrad: Roger, let me put you on the Spot a little bit wj.th Larry, andadvise us on that. Itm concerned, as others are, about the precedent.
How werve stayed away from channels and we've guided most people to usedocks. Here we have an extended s j.tuation. Mr. Rivkin really has along wetland to go through and I th ink vre aIl empathl ze r.rith irj.m. Idon't think werre tryj.ng to say donrt use the lake and you can,t getthere but what kind of advice can you offer? Maybe it's not advice but
do you see any rationale based on our ordinance that would allow anexception i.n thj.s case and aIl-ow us to not grant the same right toothers on that lake or others who vrant to dredge? Is there anyrationale?
Roger Knutson: You talked about precedent and treating simi.larlysituated people similarly. l,lhen you really get dovrn to j t, i t's arnatter of argument as much as anything e1se. Everything is sim j. lar buteverything js dissimjlar. l{hen you try drawjng lines, you cou}d drawa line and say anything over a Zqg foot dock is unreasonable or 100 or3qg or whatever you have. My own druthers, if you're going to dosomething like that, I'd prefer an ordinance amendment. If you've gota rule, put it in an ordj nance. If you want to allow docks of acertain Iength or open channels if it goes too far, put j.t down in theordinance and say it. Then you've protected yourself. On thissituation, my own judgment would be, if your conclusion is that
many years. Is very well qualified to do thjs and has done work w j.th
Carver County. I have all the confidence in the world that he wasright with these figures.
Planning Commission Meet i ng
January 6, 1988 - Page I0
allowing an open channel is going to have significant adverse affect onthat rretland, than you ought to turn it down. On the other hand, ifyou think it will not have a sj.gnif icant adverse affect on thatwetland, then by aII means approve the open channel.
Erhart: Dave, you hit on a line of thought there that I'd like topursue and that is, the concept of improving wetlands. Say gjven asituation where therers a small pond and it's been almost totaltynutrified and aII that's left is just the tiniest little spot in thecenter $rhere therers a little open water and somebody comes in herewith a proposal to essentially go in with a dragl j.ne and clean it alIout and make it into an area now, and puts an island in the mjddle andhas the DNR okayed it and approved the plan and Irm sure ElizabethRockwell would approve jt. Make it big enough so ducks anil geese wouldnest in it yet it started out as a Class A wetland. Are we going toturn that do$rn just because werve got an ordinance that says you can'tdisturb catta i I s?
Headla: We visitedspeak. Now I donrt
dimensions of that?
one this
r emem ber
fall and
it being
that's why
that bi 9.
I asked Jo Ann to
Do you re:nember the
Olsen: That was a wetland in a poor state where the duck pond
were proposing was going to i mprove it. Whereas this wetland j.s
i.n a good state and altering it might harm it.
they
al ready
Erhart: I guess what Irm having a hard time with is you,re saying thatcontinuous 466 feet of cattails is better than a broken up area whereyou have some open v,rater and some cattails and some islands and I don'tthi.nk that r s correct -
Olsen: The dredging out of that wetland.
Olsen: The difference would be determining the condition of thatwetland. And the one that you just described, even though that lrouldbe a C1ass A wetland, it's in a detriorating state and needs to beimproved. Where this wetland, lt might be a little cattail clogged and
some of it could be cleared out, Dr. Rockwell felt that it was a goodwetland and that dredging it out for a channe1...
Erhart: The one Irm talking about is zgq feel- j.n diameter. Thewetland hers got is 4Ag feet. What Irm getting to here, I'm not tryingto get anybody, but what I'm trying to qet to Lere is maybe the rulethat werre looking for, rather than Eric coming in here or anybody elsecoming in with a plan to get access to a 1ot, maybe what we ought tolook at or seek out people to come in w j.th plans for improving wetlandareas.
Erhart: Irm not talking about Eric's proposal anymore. Irm talkj.ngabout a fictious issue. If you were to go in and say, $/e have 400 feetof cattai. Is here and ere have 6AA f eet of Lridth to work $,i. th and vre
Planni.ng Commission Meeti ng
January 6, 1988 - Page 1l
r,ranEed to come in and just simply improve the wetlands for wildlife.
This is designed to be an access rather than a wetland i.mprovement and
maybe the thing, as a Commission, is that what !,, e would Iike to see or
invite people in these types of situations to come in with wetland
improvement proposals that had Rockwellrs support. And yes, if it
could be used as an access, thatrs great Eoo.
Conrad: I think yourre right. Theoretically, the things that we have
approved and wetland modification, at Least the way r've tried to
direct them, have been improvements. That's got to be the attitude
to playing around with the wetland and there are ways to improve them.
There are ways to fiII in a wetland and make another one. So just
preserving for the sake of preserving, I think thatrs why we have
Rockwell going out. I don't think, at least I'm not trying to Preservejust to preserve. I think I'm trying, in my attitude is to maintain
and to improve and jf there's a better alternative, to take a Iook at
that and not to adrninister it, no tampering. That's why therers apermit process. If we felt that wetlands should never be gotten jnto,
r"re r^rouldn't have a permit process. we'd simply say donrt go i.nto a
class A wetland but because there are ways of improving it, that's one
of the rationales for the permit. Just two po j.nts Tim, for your
consideration and my memory is giving way up here trying to remember
certain elements about the wetlands anal how we drafted the ordi.nance
and what we were trying to do and preserve. You heard a 10t of
testimony and a lot of reports several years ago when the ordinance
wenE in. Two things, however, were extremely cri tica1. The Class A
wetlands are typically an extremely good f j.lter. one of the things we
heard js when you tamper with a Little bit, j.t can make an entire
wetland ineffective. Therefore, that whole $retland can be negated-
Even though vJe're only dealing, and I assume that's what Rockwellrs,
Eric brings up some good points here in Dr. Rockwell's comments about a
substantial. weII, it's obviously not areawjse, a substaati.al impact,
but I think if I were to read between the lines and I haven't talked to
her , but I think her point could have been that by tamper i ng with a
1i ttl e bi t, you can rea 11y make a lot more inef fective than j ust tha t
little bit. The other side of the th j.ng is, as you tamper with
!,retlands it's real evident, as you take a look at the purple
loosestrife takeover, it's not just where you tamper with the wetland,
it's that purple loosestrife all of a sudden choke out the entire
wetland. They keep going and going and one of the thj.ngs that I heard
years ago that as you do disturb the wetland, you have a great tendency
for encouraging purple loosestrj.fe and there's really not a real
effective way of keeping the loosestrife from taking over- The
chernicals have not been, unless on a spot bas j.s w j.th over and over
again, been able to control that. Those were just two technical things
that I recalI about why the wetlands, we didnrt want dredg j.ng in the
wetlands. Going back to your point, I think the improvement to the
wetland is what werre always been lookl.ng for. Especially jn a Class
A. In a Class B werve been pretty liberal in how those have been
treated and I think overall Dr. Rockwell, I havenrt found her to be
real unreasonable. She takes a look at a wetlantl and if jtrs not good,
Planning Commission Meetj ng
January 6, 1988 - Page 12
she wilr tell us that and we have been a lot less stringent, a rot ressstrict on what goes on based on how valuable she feers fhat wetland is.Before hre rrrap things up here, there are others of you that maybehaven't said anything tonight and if you've got a comnent on what we'vesaid or what Mr. Rivkin has said, f.d sure entertain your commentsright now. rf it's something that pertinent that we Lan mull into ourdecision making.
Eric Rivkin: I don'tthink Irve got to say
if anybody elsethings.r"rants to go first but Iknow
s ome
Conrad: Alright, go ahead.
Eric Rivkin:,. Regarding the issue of aesthetics. I designed it to be anaturar benefit. rf they have to put in a channel , design it to be anatural looking channer. Not a straight shot. when youire on the rakeyou wi.J.l not be able to see through. When yourre on fh" shore you$ronrt be abLe to see through so it wirl le like a weaving in... otherbenefits are, regarding the purple loosestrife issue, theie is somepurple loosestrife on Lake Lucy and whether you dredge the channel ornot, purple loosestrife may take over the whole lake.- without achannel, I wouldn't have access to go pick purple Ioosestrife. Ifeverybody else doesntt have channers, they wouidn,t have access to thepurple loosestrife either. ...and you've got long access channels, itwould be easier to pick the stuff rather than har-mful herbacides topoison the fish and downstream the beach at Lake Ann where our kidsswim. As far as the minimal impact is concerned, doing absolutelynothing to the wetland, as in ttis. Rockwellrs ,oids, miy neinterlectually...but r don't believe that. ...which is -my lawfur rightof water access. I agree that, and I tried last time to try andconvince you that the pond and the channel wourd be a benefit insteadof _just providi.ng the access but you saw i.t more as just for my benef i.tand r pulled back on the second go around with the o-nn and sai-d, look,letrs just go minimal here. you terr me whatrs minimal and they toldme and gave me a permit. Now, if you're willing to fund me go j.ig tohire an,engineering experti.se and hiring or. Roc-kwell and geitin{ arrkinds of approvals and going to landscape designers and wellanddesigner_s and corning up with one plan tt impro-ve Lake Lucy ind spendthousands and thousands of dolrars to do a bang up job on my 1ot, on myI acres of wetland, okay but if I have to fund ;.t, 1t's unr6asonableaccess. r have lawfur rights to reasonable access Eo open wat*-r onLake Lucy. You have to grant me that. rt's state 1aw. rtrs the 1aw.Now, a dock versus a channel, let's talk about a dock for a minute
1..9. Aesthetically, a rj.bbon of plastic or !.rood going out on thedock, the wood is very high maintenance. Anybody fhut-t"lls yoo udock does not require maintenance is blowi.ng smoke. There are floatingdock systems that may be cheaper but have no- Iess Iiability than atrooden dock in which people can fall off, drown off of, run into anddeer trip over so r donrt think that a dock from that standpoint and
!::1use, addressing -Ehe issue about why it,s so expensive. yourve gotdozens and dozens of posts to pound doern. Many of them have to go 1O
Pl ann i rrg Commission Meetj.ng
January 6, 1988 - page 13
feet or more just to hit solid ground in order to support jt. youcantt take the posts out for 490 feet of dock. you canrt even take-the docks out. It's not a seasonal dock. Thatts going to stay thereyear around- rtrs not practical to remove 400 feet of dock every year.Yourre forciog, through some of your provisions, that they have to -work
-in the wintertime. That's why itrs so expensive. you,ve got to gopound I0g posts out there. The access problems. These guys are notgoing to rrant to work. They vrork by the hour and it,s very expensive
_to put a dock in the winter that Long. So me and residents around thelake feel itts going to be a piece of junk on the rretland. Nolv thathas an impact. Regarding the City's comments, thj.s Attorney said thatif the applicant is concerned with liability, he can choose to leave
-the property alone and not do anything. Irm not concerned withliability as I am with my right for reasonable access. you say thatstaff can not base recommendations on the cost of the outcome. Cost to
-the appJ"icant is an element because access, denial of access, trould bein effect denial of my rights to open water and denylng me becauseresources are beyond my reach. Thatrs true in cases erhere I can designa big fancy improvement to the wetland too. If it's my expense, it's-unreasonable. I cantt afford it. No way. That,s in violation ofstate law. Reasonable access to open water. you say thaE Item Cstates that the size of the dredged area should be the minimum
-requirement of the proposed action. The purpose of the channel js toprovide the property owner with his access to Lake Lucy. You have toqualify the word access to reasonable access. Taki.ng out acres and
_adding my own ponds and lakes and therers no rray that Itm gojng to put
in a $L9,06A.66 dock. The other question I had for aLl of you is, the
DNR has addressed aLl of these issues. werve got experts, like Mrs.
Rockwell but broader because they have crossed alI boundaries besides.{ish and Wildlife which Mrs. Rockwell is an expert in. But they are incontrary opinions to Mrs. Rock$relI. Now, the DNR has already spoken to
Ehese issues and considered the dock proposal. They considered thejnpact. They considered aII the issues. They have experi.ence on
thousands of channels dredged on hundreds of lakes and ponds around
:,linnesota and theyrve given Eheir opinion. They've given me a permit.
You said I had to go back and get a permit. I got a permit. That
-should have settled alI the arguments.
lonrad: Not true and thatrs why we have an ordinance. t^ie have an
-:rdinance that we're looking at that we spent, you keep talking aboutthat and the DNR is one of the thjngs. The last tj.rne you were Jn,:here were a 1ot of missing pieces and we got confused. I^ie djdntL say,
_if you get those missing pieces back to us you're automatically granted
the permit. There were a lot of missing pj.eces jn what we sar^, and we
asked you and staff to go back and coLlect some comments. You came:ack wittr thj.s. You've done a ni.ce job of coming back but we ilave an
=rdinance. Mr. Rivkin you donrt understand that there is a wetland
ordinance in this town and we are lookj.ng at that. Itrs more strict:han the DNR. Thatrs why we have that ordj.nance and we had a group ofieven people construct that ordinance over 3 or 4 years a couple yearsback so that's what vJerre looking at now. Werre not looking at the
Planning Commission Meeting
January 6, 1988 - Page 14
DNR. Theyrve given you their opi.nion. Theyrve granted the permit butwe have to Eake a rook at our ordinance and thatrs what werre kind ofstruggling over right now. That's why we have a regal staff here tokind of guide that- so the DNR is one piece of the pie. we wantedthem to be in concurrence with the things that theylook at, and theyonly rook at a few of the things. They are not thJ most stiict body-when it gets to r.retlands. They just arenrt. Thatrs why chanhassentook a look at it and said we have a rot of wetrands in -chanhassen, itcovers a lot of territority and we wanted to take a look at itourselves and put in an ordinance ourselves and thatrs rrhat werrestruggling rri th .
Emmings: rn addition Ladd, r'id like to point out that his permit fromthe DNR-is specifically condi-tioned upon cornplying with alL' rules,regulations, requirements and standarts of ttre-niin""otu polrotioncontrol Agency and other appricable federarr state and rocil agenciesand that's us. Werre a Iocal agency.
Conrad: I just didnrt want you to keep drumming in that fact becausewerre looking at other things, just not that. oia you have any otherconcluding things?
Eric Rivkin: yes, I don't hear any experE, I mean everybody has theright to ttreir opinions but you br-ougtri up'i""re" it.i ,i.i"'r"ttunanswered about the fact about the quarily of rife in the wetrands.There is no conclusive evidence by you in favor of the Janner...justsuppositions.
Conrad: The Wetland ,Ordinance does say that itrs up to the applicantto persuade us, not t].,e staff. It,s up- to the applicant to persuade usthat there is minimal or no impact toihe !,retland alteration so itrs onyour shoulders to do-that and yourve presented information that we haveto review. rf we believe that there 'is zero. degregation or minimarimpact, then r think y-ou'rr have easy sailing in tfris ,.giia through usor through City Counc i 1 .
Eric Rivkin: ...What expert testimony do you have that itrs going todegrade the wetland?
Conrad: _ Simply by dredging is taking part of the wetland ahray andthaErs rrhat rder re looking Jt.
Eric Rivkin: But how do you know taking some of the r^retland isdetr irnen tal in this case?
Conrad: I guess, and I'm answering for myself, at this point jn timeyou.havenrt persuaded me that it'!s not and- our'tectrnicar'exfert i.ssayi.ng that she can see no rationare for harming ini!-""tri'na ut tni,time that wouldnrt be detrimental. Those are tfre two things that rrmlooking at.
Planning Commission Heeting
January 6, 1989 - page 15
Eric Rivkin: I could put in a dock and you could say the same thing.
Joe Monnens: I realLy appreciate the problem you guys are strugglingwith here in your efforts to rarant to e'nf orce a stricter ordinance thanmost conmunities. I really applaud that and I also =f,u.u-yoo, concernabout not wanting deveropeis i-o "o.. in-anal dredge ,p .h; 'wltranas inthis. area. but my gosh,. ttri.s. is i-usi a luy tf,rt ,Jnt".to -g"i-a
canoe outon the lake-- He's just asking tor a r-itlre channei. -y";-;.t to find away to 1et that happen.
Conrad: Roger, you wantedwhat you were going to say?
to talk a few seconds ago. Do you remember
Ioq"I . Knutson: yes, but you said it. I was just going to ask if youhad discussed, r haven'-t begn participating ii trre"ar""u".itn" earrier,the -fact the purpose of wetlands, nut-rient stripoi.t .;J-;ii that goodstuff-. Apparentry you had gone over that. ouviousiy it's a lot morethan just wildlife nesting ireas.
Conrad:. cenerally, here's my opinion, I think Mr. Rivkin has done anice job of. revising his plan ".,a givi.,g us more information. As stevesaid, I'd like to find a way of soiving-a problem. I really do likeand agree with access to the rake for a-ny riparian t o*"orn"'.. The prani-s a 10t more reasonable than it was ueiorJbut r see on the otherside, r still see some technical advice telling me that ii i-s negativeand this technical advice typicarly is not look-inq at retter of thef3r:. In the past has always been real reasonable on how they'veadvised us so r feel sensitive to the technicar advice. r think lmstirr concerned with impact on that wetrand as you disturb it. Thecomments that I said about making a small change could impact theentire wetland and the impact of l-oosestrife. rt's not just this one.rtrs other channels and r think the whole precedent issu6 is the onethat r'!m struggl-ing with the most. r thini Mr. Rivkin has a real validargument to get out there but r don'|t knor", how to control i.t i n otherissues just like this one. r think when we have cther accesses on LakeLucy that we'rl have to look at, and r thi.nk every dock that we,ve lookat so far that we've asked every access to a wetrand, will be back herewanting to channel. Not everyone, that's an overstatement but manywi11. Many hranted to and vre tendec to keep the rures pretty strict inthat regard. I think a dock mjght be a reasonable alternatj.ve. Idonrt know that the costs are that different as you are suspectingDave. I think maintenance on both i.ssues might be a long term, whetherit be redredgi.ng or reworking the dock bui I don'|t know that the costsare that prohibited. r guess in rny mind the onry arternati.ve right nowthat I see, the only recommendation I can make is to turn down thechannel and possibly to review, as Roger said, the wetland ordinance-I'd be real apprehensive about granting a variance because of theimpact. I would have a tendency to want to take a look at theordinance. It doesn't help Mr. nivkin right now. He wants to Eo outand do the thing in the winter based on ordinance but r think r"-.ri.irrgthe ordinance is the onry thing that r could do and r think if the ciiy
Planning Cornmi ss ion Meeting
January 6, 1988 - Page 16
Council \^ranted to take a look at that again, we certainly could have a,
I alon't know if you caLl it a blue ribbon, but we could have some kind
of a group take a look at it. Maybe there is a way to review thisissue in situations when yourve got 4AA feet to get to the lake. I
emphathize hlith trhat youtre trying to do. I just really do but I alsofeel that I don't have a good enough way to grant that at this timeother than taking a look at the ordinance itself and saying, is there
any possible way of altering that so we stiIl dontt impact that wetlandbut give you that right and thatrs the only thing I can see right now.
Er j.c Rivkin: Maybe the ordinance does need a change but I wouldsuggest that you have alI lakeshore owners notified and this blueribbon panel or whatever it is should j.nclude select homeowners or
maybe representatives of homeor.rners could forrn 1ake homeownersassociations to represent that way. But the ordinance does needchanging. ff you're saying that it's on the burden of a iere homeoernerto provide a convincing argument that we have staffs and state agenciesfor, that's a hell of a burden. Irve got to convince you that thewetlandrs not to be touched. Thatrs ridiculous. I went to seek theopinions of others and f,m of the position that I probably could havedone I0 times more than the next guy out there but take the average guycoming in here trying to get a dock or channel, he hasn,t got a chanlein front of you guys.
Emmings: Dr. Rockwell has come back to us on several times when she,sgone out to review wetlands, she comes back and says I think whattheyrre proposing to do is an improvement to the wetland. She gives usthat information. she didn't in your case but she's done that on rotsof them.
Eric Ri.vkin: It seems a little inconsistent here. Eirst, she made anopinion...and it is very choked out with these lveeds and stuff. Thelast time r came here, r wanted to dredge r thi nk more, there were moremembers up here than before, but three of them are on record in f avorof.the channel upon thinking that it was an improvement. r didnrEbring .up-those arguments again here because they were mentioned beforeand r had the DNR backing ne now saying that ok-ay, it wour.d be ressthan minimal- rtrs a very awkward fiosition for a''homeowner to come inand defend...maybe it's a problern the ordinance like yourre saying.
Conrad: In fact, when the o rd i. nance went in, I sure knew where therewere going to be problems. When r^, e had wetlands that were as big asthe ones that are in front of your house and the committee, Z to 3years ago did look at thaE and at that time they couldn't find asolution for us- rt's a real probrem but r think the point was that weviere really trying to make j.t hard for somebody to modify a Class Awetrand- They are so valuabre- They are eaten up, rn Mi-nnesota moreare eaten up proportionally than should be. water is such an importantasset to Minnesota by! ,g have really, the State's done a really badjob of pr-eserving wetrands. Not onri'for habitat but for rrater controland runoff and art that. Theyrve reilty done a miserable job. Thatts
Planning Commission Meet j. ng
January 6, 1988 - Page 17
Eric Rivkin: If you wanted to tabledenying my right to lawful access.
why we donrt have a whole lot of respect for wha tdoing. They can do certain things but theyrre notjob in terms of some of these things that we think
the DNR is out there
doing a real good
are important.
this so I don't feel like yourre
conrad: r think what you shourd do is go to city council. r thi.nk youhave to hear what they have to say. I think you have a presentabLeproposal at this time and because we turn it down, wh j.ch you may havegotten the drift but that doesnrt mean that you cantt coma back rateron and bring it back up. What is the limit? If it does get turneddown by us and City Council, Mr. Rivkin certainly has the opportunityto bring back a different scenario at any time he,d like right? But Ithink itrs really worthwhile that you hear City Council on -this onebecause if they want us to look at the hretland ordinance, Ird like tohave their direction to do that. Then we get some kind of concurrencebetween them and us.
Eric Rivkin: You'II point out th.is report to them?
Conrad: Theyrre going to hear everything that I just said.
Emmings: Before we make a motion, are $re just going to vote on theproposal for the channel cr are rre also going to consider thealternative for the boardwalk?
Conrad: I didnrt hear Mr. Rivkj.n ask for the boardwalk. He's askingfor the channel. I think thatrs the one he wants to pursue to CityCouncil and I think $re should just react to that.
Headla: I wouLd prefer to table it and see if he couldnrt come back.
- Work with the different groups where itrs a benefit to the r.retland aswell as to himself. Apparently the feeling is that he's better offgoing right to Ehe Councj. I. I thi.nk he can win if he sits down and
- talks and how can the vretlands benefit besides him. I find it hard tobelieve there is no r.ray to do it. That's why I would prefer tabJ.ingit. If you feel time is of the essence and you rrant to gamble that $ray
because it's. . .
Conrad: Do you want to make a motjon to table it?
- Headla moved, Erhart seconded to table the vretland alteration permit
request and ask Mr. Rivkin to $rork with the City Staff and the
appropr ia ee people to see can be done to bene f it the rret I and s as welI
as hi.mself . The motion was later r.rithdrawn.
Erhart: I guess I'd like to ask a question before we vote on that.
Are you interested in coming back here once agai.n with a proposal to
- improve the lretland? Yourve sat there now and said it doesn't hurt and
doesnrt hurt and the DNR says it hasnrt hurt the wetland. Yourre not
going to selI that in the City right and I think what you have to selIis how yourre going to come in here and show us how yourre going toimprove the wetlands and then I think you'll get it through. Therersno sense tabling it if you donrt want to come back but I think I agreewith Dave, if you want to come back with a proposal and have Dr.Rockwell review, perhaps put an island and make the pond bigger, thatsounds really funny at this point I know, and put an island in it...
Eric Rivkin: Whors going to pay for it?
Planning Commission Meeti ng
January 6, 1988 - Page 18
Erhart: WelI, r.rerre not going to pay for it.put a dock. You basically heard the argument.
Eric Rivkin: you havenrt convinced me that a
Erhart: We don,t have to. That,s irrelevant.you a channel. you can put a dock in.
Erhart: Irm not sure wesimilar situations.
Reasonable access is
You can put a dock
toin.
dock is cheaper.
We donrt hEve to give
that
can though because werve allowed it in other
Joe Monnens: I hope if he comes back with a proposal for a dock,you deny that. Ird much rather see a channel than a dock-
Joe Monnens: A 409 foot
Erhart: We don't have an
Joe Monnens: Thatordinance then.
would
dock. . .
ordinance that prohibiEs a 4gU foot dock.
be a good mof idication to your exJ.sting
Erhart: Maybe, if
something but. . .
a dock is over 4A0 feet, then look at a channel or
Eric Rivkin: I would want to come back year and do th j.s j.f theordinance i.s improved but it's not withi; my means to go back and hirepeople and find out rrhy an affordable chann6t is going to improve ther.retlands.
Erhart: I don't thj.nk yourre that far away.
Eric Rivkin: Wi.th who?
Erha r t 3 RockwelI.
Eric Rivkin: She was very adamant about doing anything.
Emmings: Is she available an).more?
orsen: she moved to Ne$, Jersey. There's another person in her officethat is ava i lable.
PI ann j. ng Commission Meeting
January 6, 1988 - page 19
Headla: Does the staff feel that $re can work something out?
Olsen: At this time, again just interpretting the ordinance, weinterpret it as minimar impact or alteration...with the channel butthere are other alternatives. Just from hearing, even peopre from the
DNR, it i.s a good wetland and I don,t know if ii needs lo be irnprovedwith a channel and a pond.
_ Conrad: I think it sure should go to City Council. Although you,ve
made a motion that itrs being tabled. r think Mr. Rivkin should takeit to them and get their opinion. He'll be there in tvro weeks andhe'II hear what they have to say. If they believe what werre saying or- if they don't. If nothing else, if they beli.eve that the ordinance, thave to believe that they're going to reinforce $rhat $rerre saying.But they may be j.nterested in other alternatives like changing the
- ordinance and thatrs the most reasonable way of solving of thi problem.So I think itrs really to his benefit to get it up there rather thanspinning around erith us and coming back.
- Head la :
pursuing
Maybe youire r ight.it.Mr. Rivki.n isn't that interested i.n
- Conrad: Cost!{ise it's going to be more. A different solution I think.
Headla: Okay, how do we withdraw that motion?
Conrad: You can withdrai., it.
_ Headla3 Okay, I withdraw my motion.
Conrad: Do you withdraw your second?
- Erhart: sure.
HeadIa moved, Emmings seconded that the Plannjng Commission recommend
denial of the wetland alteration permiE to construct a channel and- turnaround. A11 voted in favor and motion carri.ed.
- conrad: Do $re any special instructions as r', e send thj.s forr,rard? I
think our comments as they get to City counci. l will be, the last few
minutes of discussion will be clear for them as they read our Minutes.
Emmings: Maybe if they r,rant us to look at the ordinance, and it seemsto me maybe we should, they should give us some clear ind j.cation of how
we cna fit this particular case into the general thing with the
- ordinance because I can't see how we're going to do it. I think I'dIike some direction.
Planning Commission Meeti ng
January 6, 1988 - Page 2g
STRATFORD RIDGEpE6peRry-zoNE'5-SUBDIVISION LOCATED ATel SIr.lGr,n
5830 MINNEWASHTA PARKWAY ONRSE, RES I DENT I FAMI LY ,ROBERT PI EREE
'A. SUBDIVISION OF 9.04 ACRES INTO 15 SINGLE FAMILY LOTS.
B. CONDITIONAL
C. WETLAND ALTERATION PERMIT TO CONSTRUCT A PUBL I C STREET T{ITHINA CLASS B WETLAND AND FOR C ONSTRUCTION WITHIN 2OO E EET OF ACLASSqWETLAND.
Larry Brown presente_d the engineering departmentrs staff report on thestratford Ridge Subdivision.
Headla: That sedimentation basin, when r was looking at it, it rookedl-ike it wourd be 6 feet below the street revel . r= fh"t iijrnt:
Brown: The elevation at the bottom of the pond is 966 and theelevation of the roadway is approximately 972. This invert of thestorm sewer pipe is approximately half a foot, well itrs 96G.5 abovethis. During L].e tgg year stormf the maximum'."pu"iJy tnui'it,"expected to maintain, the elevation would be 968. rhis is werl belowthe provisions of the roadway so we wonrt be creatin! " proha. there.The one problem that does exist is the park and Recre-atidn commissionhad proposed for a trair_easeme-nt arong Minnewashta pi.r.r.v. Duringthe normal storm, say I0 year frequendy storm r fou cah f iCa trai f!l.oyg! here fairry readily. There's n-ot many 6bstacles through there.rt r^rill be up out of the ponding area and won-,t be u piour"*. Theproblern does come in if a lqg ye-ar storm does o""ra, ,i" *ry"=tuatencroaching upon the trail but I seriously doubt that manf peopte aregoing to be using the trail during a lTg yeax sEorm.
Headla: Hor,, do you get the water f ronJust a culvert under the road?
the sedimentation basin out?
Brown: Yes, the watershed has reviewed this and with a baffrestructure here, it r.rirr flow into Lake Minnewashta. certain provisionscan be made to bring this outlet back further and rip rap it out but Idonrt think that would be very .a"-.ntig.or". The sedimentation istrapped in the basin and there won't b6 anythinS...
Headla: Is alI the water coming out of Ehere going Eo stay on thepierce property? The grade in trre land k_ind -or.ixL" ll-i..p on goingsouth.- The_ drainage out of the sedimentation u"sin. -1o" sie it,sheaded southeast. Why didn't it go more east? If you heal southeast,it's going Eo continue frowing to the south when -it 's.t;-iJst the road.
Bro$rn: r think they made provi.sions. The drainage that comes fromhere is trapped through the roadway system and stjrm sen,ei system. Itflows jnto the sedimentation basi j .n-d then qo." oui h;;;: "
USE IERMIT FOR A RECREATIONAL BEACHLOT.
Planning Commission Meet i ng
January 5, 1988 - page 2l
HeadIa: Okay, right
the east side of the- the south. Are they
there. It doesn't get to the lake. It gets toroad but then the grade tends to make it flow togoing to pipe it right down to the lake?
Brown: That r.ras my understanding. Is that correct?
Ted: Yes.
Conrad: Therers a lot of property that could be developed around there
- and I guess I still see a benefit of creating a pond. Not onLy forthis project but for others to the north and to the west. Why not? Isthe elevation prohibitive of redirecting the front properties to drain
-to the rear to a pond and how come thatrs not an alternative?
Bro$rn: Basicly the initial submittal had the pond in this area and
we made them relocate it to facilitate some of the natural drainage- path. This area over here, BRW had analyzed that in their report. Ontheir sketch they had picked out specific areas, low lying areas, thata pond could be facilitated. Unfortunately, I don't have an overhead of
- that but it is in your packet. That was not one of the areas they hadpicked. Because they met the 100 year frequency, it worked i.n with theside slopes of these lots and the existing drainage patterns, I felt
- that it was adequate. That certainly is an alternative that could be
explored but I felt that this pond...
conrad: Tell me a little bit about, if you had a pond back there, like
-it can't hold, what qrould you do with the pond that uras there? t\tould
the assumption be that it could hold a lot of water or would you stiIl
have Ehe same type of outlet into Minnewashta? wj thout looking at the
- site I have no idea what the holding capac i ty would be back there but
would you potentially have Eo have the same tyPe of outlet that you
currently have on the hotding pond that you planned in this particular
_map or could a pond be self conEained? It flows in and j.t just stays
there.
Brovrn: You would have to have some sort of outlet. Eventually that
-pond is going to reach capacity. I knovJ that the neighboring
groperties are very concerned about this area. I thj.nk that \"ras one of
the major reasons for the placement of the pond over here. Not only
-that, obviously we're limited by the property boundary and Ehe slopes
in the ditch area now. Like I said, I havenrt got it down to brass
tacks lrhether a pond is feasible through here. There could be some
shifting of the proposed grades but I think you would have to outlet it
-someplace aod I'm afraid that that alternative would be bad for Lake
Minnevrashta.
-Conrad: How does a study, like BRW, how did this get funded? The BRw
portion of alternatives. What prompted a study and who funded that?
-Brown: BRW has been one of our consultants, fox a whiIe, to explore
this, we used BRw because vre're concerned wj.th Minnewashta Parkway
Planning Commission Meeting
January 5, 1988 - Page 22
beiog a collecEor street. werre worried about the aspects of accessonto Minnewashta parkway. There are certain probIemJ, as yourreprobably more than aware of, of sight distance and speed on l,tinnewashtaParkrray. For that very reason, ere h,anted to exprore what restri.ctionswe needed for stratford Ridge such as this entrLnce and also tofacilitate future development. If this piece goes, iE.rs fairlyinevitable that the surrounding pieces wirr a6 that so we had Lo Lookat.once these pieces start coming in, how are rre going to facilitateutilities through there, the roadway patterns
conrad: Did that come from your office or did the city council directyou to do that?
Brown: yes, it came from our office-
Conrad: Okay, and then hov, does that get funded? Who pays BRVt fordoing that? Is that just a budget thai the city has?
Brown: Thatrs a budgeted item, yes. We often use consultants.
Conrad: yourre just talking to us about engineering facts. Jo Ann,yourre going to be talking about other things. erryit,ing else forLarry?
Jo Ann Olsen presented- the planning department's staff report on theStratford Ridge Subdivision.
Conrad: Would the applicant like to tatk to us on what was justpresented and any other comments?
Ted Kenner, Schoell and Madsen: The trdo questions that Jo Annspecifically- brought up were the area of t-he p.of"rty-uni-we havecalculated the area of the property to be 9.01 .t.""'. itris apparentrydisagrees with the tax area wt ictr is suustanii"iry-i;=". iomething inthe 5 acre area. r have not seen the tax stateme-nt, but it is actuarrya 9 acre parcel. As to Lot I, Block 2 I understand by looking ;l-it;-,it does not appear to have Eh,e L5,000. rf you take the dimensions thatare shown out of the prat, that does not calculate out but those arethe dimensions to the curves. rf you take the r""gth -oi-irre rot timesthe width of the lot, which j.s L4o feet long by t68 feet wiae, itcalcurates out to be L5rL26- so when the plat is finalry carcurated,that lot wilI be made to be a 15,AA0 or lar-ger ana it *if'f -Ue tus"ar{ith. that configuration. I guess r don'E tare .ny olrr"i-l."u"s unressyou have quest i ons .
Headla: on the 9-a4 acxes, Jo Ann remember early this farr when we hadthat Hallars property-and I asked the question, tfre ..". tt.V stated,did that include rhe high$ray. we were ta.rking .u"rt-tn riil u.ra yousaid no, that's not normalrf inctuded. when i roox at trl-lrithmeticon_this property, if -I measure strictly the enveIop.,- f-"i.1 up wi th9.04 acres- That includes Minnewashta parkway. if i [.-r.!"'otr
Planning Commission Meeti ng
January 5, 1988 - page 23
Minnewashta Parkway and the lakeshore, r come up with 7.56 acres whichis what, the taxable property was and thatrs re.ily what you're tryingto develop. If you take away Ehe outlot, it,s really 7 aCres thatyou're developing. Do you agree with that?
Ted Kenner:
developable
Minnewashtaquarters of
HeadIa: So
It depends on how you figure it. I would say thatproperty is the entire parcel less the area that isParkway. The area in Minnewashta parkway is aboutan acre so you still have 8.3 acres of land area.
the 9.04 did include the highway?
the
in
three-
Ted Kenner: ?hat is correct. yourve got three-quarters of an acrebet$reen the road and the lake in there or about seven-tenths of anacre and that is not within the plat itself but it,s still land areathat is developable and is taxed.
Headla: I give you credit for a little bit more area than that. Okay,I eranted to make that point. Can I see your arithmetic on tot 1? Irve
-tried and tried and tried and I can not come up with the, if you couldjusE sketch it. Give me the overall dimensions and then let me go onto something else.
Ted Kenner: OveralJ,, the Iength is 140 feet.
I take this lO0 and this 15 and this 15, Ehat,sI get I30. IfHeadla:- r3g.
Ted Kenner:
HeadIa: f rm
Ted Kenner:lot was set
AII Irm using is the sca1e.
using dimensions right off the print.
it and thatrs the way the
I can see dimensions on
under. It does not meet
Okay,
up is
thatrs the way I've based
based on sca le .
Headla: I donrt believe itts ]-5,60A. Unti 1the print that says that, I think yourre $raythe mi n imum of L5,60g.
Ted Kenner: I
calculations.
guess Irm confident that jt does just based on my
Headla: What does
Ted Kenner: Thisat this point.
preliminary plat mean?
is a preliminary plat.This has not been calculated
HeadIa: But if we approveslide anything around Iike
thi s, what are we really aPProving?
you erant or are we approving this as
Can
it i
you
Planning Commission Meeting
January 6, 1988 - Page 24
Olsen: They havenrt made
dimensions $ri th the final but we check the lot
You canrt change.
the final calculat ions
Plat to match the t$ro.
that house, wh j.ch
to the r^rest.
Headra: what do you rearry change on here? rrm not sure r rearl-yunderstand pr eI im i nary.
Olsen: The preliminary you,l1 estab}ish the lot layout and the lotdimensions and the square footage. The final prat, it iusi comes inwith just the lot 1ines. That,t when you,ve done the finalialculations. so with a preliminary piat sometimes you,rl get a rotthaErs 1r0 wide and then the finar wilI come in and it *igni r.actually I12.
Headra: so you're rearly just fine tuning some of the dimensions butthese lots arenrt going to slide around anymore. I guess I want tomake very sure that does meet the minimum -requiremerits. r- don't knoh,how they're going to achieve it. That's arl r had on that. on thedriveway, on the outl.ot th_at. you.re suggesting, ;;" yo; ;Jng to bedgin-n- any grading on that driveway? a1e you cnangirig thL lever of thatat all?
OI sen :
blocked
Ted Kenner:it as is.
?ed Kenner:
Headla ! The
Ted Kenner:
Right along here.at aII.There is concern that this driveway not be
The plan is to not do anything in this area. Just leave
Headla: So you wonrt be doing any grading in there and you arenrtchaogi ng vrater f lord at all then?
Ted Kenner: No. rt will 0n1y be constructed from Minnewashta park$rayup to stratford Drive where it goes into the dever-opment. That will befinished, the roadway-up t9 theie. Beyond that wiri ,.*uin-tt. graveldriveway that presently- exists Ehere.
Headra: Fine, there vras some concerD and r just wanted cr-arificationon that. when youtre doing Ehis, and rhis ii r.i.J or_J lilition ttuucomes up at different times, therers onry one way into that house, urhathappens if there is an emergency up there?. Is there a r ways going to bean access to that place? . when you'le putting in tnat-lg-iJot road, howis that person, in case there'|s in .*.ij".r"y, trow aoes inai house getserved?
When you say
one d i rectly
Hallgrenrs?
are you talkinq about?
Headla: yes.
Ted Kenner: They
could get through
would maintainat aII times.
the driveway through there so they
Headla: Even when you're building that 50 foot road?
Headla: What about on the northeast corner r.rhere I thi.nk itrs Mrs.Campbell lives now, her property goes right into her driveway and I-think thatrs been common knowletlge in the area for some time. Whathappens to her? Is she just out of Iuck now or maybe the builder cantell me, how is that handled?
Robert Pierce: Thatrs been addressed. There is an easement for
al r i veway purposes.
Ted Kenner: Just one comment on that. Since that was dra$rn, we havegotten additional information on the exterior bounalaries and they wiII
be shi fting a l ittIe further from her house oo the north side an yway
-and possibly right to the edge of the drivevray. So the drive may notgo j.nto our property.
-Headla: How do you people feel about that tra j.l going along
i,lj.nnewashta Parkway and then that 5 foot drop-off there? Then yourve
lot a 6 foot r.rater pond along the parkway and then yourre going to have
:omes there. Is that going to be a problem for people on the bike-tzail or the homes that are right there that have small children?
Robert Pierce: At this point, I guess I don't really know. Itrs a
-I i ttle hard for me to visualize how the Erail is going tc ao jn untj 1 Ireally see where it's going to go. I do know that with the proper
landscaping and the right grades, I think it can be done and made to
-[ook very nice. I guess it would be up to r"rhoever is using the trail
Eo use it in such a way Ehat, if they're going at such a speed that
they can't stay on the trail or vrhatever, I guess thatrs where problems
oould come in but that could be anywhere along the trail.
Headla: Do they grate that thing or what do they do?
Jrown: There is plenty of room for the 8 foot trail. where the
problem comes in is actually the 2q foot easement area that's normally
:equired. Therers a problem with overlapping the drainage easement
,ith the tra j.1 easement and that was my major concern. There j.s more-than enough room to get an 8 foot trail in there. That obviously
doesn't alleviate the possibility of reachi.ng maximum capacity of the
)ond and occasj.onally running over the top of that trail- r thj.nk
r.hat's the probtem at this point. As far as the question hre weregetting at before about the pond bei.ng close to the residential
rei.ghborhood right there, rre have required ponds on roughly aII the
-ievelopments. one classic example is over here on the Saddlebrook.
Thatrs probably the biggest ponding site that we have and that again is
Planning Commission Meeti ng
January 5, 1988 - Page 25
_Ted Kenner: Yes.
HeadIa:
than what
to the
So if
werve
Plann j.ng Commiss j on Meeti.ng
January 5, 1988 - Page 26
ad j acen t rearyard so I really dontt foresee
we set a precedent, it
done other places ?
i sn't going
right?
any direct problem.
to be any d j.f ferent
maintain aright now.. ,
a double frontage lot.
are approved there that it willthis driveway but. . .
Headla: I $ras Looking at that hoping to have the rrater go back theother way. The other one, Irm concerned about the rretla;d to thenorth$rest, but we can talk about that. My only other comment is, J rdasreally disappointed in t-he _BRw maps. they jus€ bratantLy went rightthrough the wetlands and they are suggest-in! these .r" ori.." the roadsshourd go. rrm not going to belabor the point except that r thought itwas inappropriate to do. you heard the discussion tonight. we're veryconcerned about wetlands and then something that the virlage willsponsor, we blast a road right on through.
Brown: I think that can be addressed by, initially and Jo Ann canconfirm this, initially we didn't think that area wa= a wetrand. As rstated before, rrhen the applicant submitted this at first, that waswhen we ordered the overview by BRw. shortly therea fter wards, the areaback there i n the northwest corner \,ras anaryzed as a row class r^retrand.So it's not a real obvious. factor when you,ie out there trompingthrough the site, that it is a wetland. -
Emmings: Irve just got a little bit here. On the condition 2, Jo Annit says Lots I through 5 and I assume that's Block 2 tnal you,retalking about there so r guess Ird rike to, whoever rnakes €he motion, Ithink rr,e ought to incrude Block 2 in there so lrerre sure we know whichLots I through 5 werre talkj.ng about. Then, goiog to condition 1,werre tarking about the right-of-way south oe-rot-" 7 through r0 will bedesignated as an outlot. bo t under-stand the reason that's- being d.neis to avoid the double frontage question?
Emmings:
Technically right now itrs not actually
We are creating double frontage lots
OI sen :
j ust go
Olsen: -Mostly itrs just so the city would not have todouble frontage. It's indicated aj street right_of_way
Emmings:
and lO of
IotS?
OL sen :
Emm i ng s:wi.th that.proper ty.
Why arenrt we doing theBIock l that we're aloing
same things then at least Lots g, 9on Lot 2 for the doubte frontage
Itrs possible that when streetsstraight down from StratEord to
As far as the double frontageI d on,t think the plan is aIrm glad that they looked to
lots, I don't have a probLembad pJ.an at all for thesee hor^r it would fit with the
Brown: That I s correct.
Planning Commission Meet i ng
January 6, 1988 - Page 27
development of the neighboring properti.es. I think thatrs been Iookedat. I guess I donrt have any trouble thinking about a varj.ance forthose because werve already sa id we rrant Iot depth to be 125 feet andj.n fact they may not need a variance at all if the City Council goesalong with that. r do hoerever Iike the idea of having additjonalIandscaping when there are doubte frontage lots. The only thing Ihave troubl-e really conceptualizing in this plan js four of those lotsin tslock 2, such as 2, 3, 4 and 5 rea I Iy, it woul,d seem to me there is
some kind of mushy language in there that we recommend that the housesface the internal streets but I would think as a matter of fact, yourdwant to build those houses to look at the lake.
Olsen: What that means is that it emphasizes is they must befor a driveway. What we would consider the rear of the house
would consider the front.
cleared
the y
Emmings: That makes it perfectly clear. Now I understand. I donrtcare which way they go but as Iong as they have the access of f theinternal street and theyrve got some addjtional, when we say they'regoing to have addiEional screening, thatrs on the Parkway side right?I donrt have anymore questions.
Erhart:
access
On that BRW plan, on Option A,
from Minnewashta Par keray?
how are they going to get
Olsen: Option A is showing it to be accessed from the north.
Erhart: And that street exi.sts?
Erhart: And that not being such a
up trith doubLe frontage lots gives
double frontage lots.
good idea, for that purpose we end
us option B. Option B gives us with
Olsen: But they're building this already.
Erhart: Really, the BRw plan is the one that gives us the variance.nossibly you could have drawn up a street plan and prevented any doublefrontage lots.
Brown: If I could interrupt, I think as pointed out j.n the BRw report,
that there is a large number of possibi 1i ties that one could 1ay thisout. Again, one of the other points that was brought out in the reportis the ability to develop this area is going to rely on a developer to
package several parcels of Iand together. That may not happen. Someof the homeowners have already expressed that no, my land will never be
developed. That may in fact happen but the object of Ehis was not tolay out the specific lots or force anyone into developing, it was just
such that we can address Stratford Rj.dge to accomodate that development
Olsen: No. I think what they would probably do is put a service road
where this dotted li.ne i.s.
Planning Commission Meetj ng
January 6, L9BB - Page 28
Robert Pierce: Therers the possibility too that at adepending on hoh, land would develop ar-ound there, thatnever be used or it might shift ovtr 30 feet.
future date,that access may
Erhart: So I guess it really isn't an issue.
Conrad: The size of the properties on eitherparcels on either side? North and south?
No more questions.
side Jo Ann, are Iarge
if it were to occur.
Erhart: r think srhat you did in putting together a master plan for thearea was just great. r think thatis super. whether they aia a goodjob or not, that one.I vronrt make a jud-gment on. Obviouily, if inycompany should do this, I agree rrith Dave, they should go in and findout, before they lay any pen to paper they ought to fini out whatrswetrand in the area-because thatis just aJ imfortant as the existingstreets. rn my mind, r'm just trying to undeistand the doubre fronf.edlots to some degree comes about as pitting pressure on the deveroper totry to stick to our master pJ-an so i guess i don't have a probrem withthe variance from that stanapoint. r.6ts t and 2 of Brock 2, they have70 foot frontage on one side. Thatrs berow the minimum allowed.-
orsen: Therers 90 foot street frontage and incruding the radius, thatcomes out to 85.
Ted Kenner: It,s 90 at the building setback line.
Olsen: That I s for cul-de-sacs.
Ted Kenner: Then we should make that lot 90 on the front then.
Erhart: Lot 1 should be 90. Lot 2, that one being on an outside
T:::,.-I::r--^.o_u-1-d .argue rhat it would be on the settack, bur Lot I, rrnrnK yourve got to rook at that number. And the extra 10 feeE isincluded in Lots 7 through t0 of Block I right, because it,s OouUtefrontage? tt is i ncluded?
Olsen: Not right now but it will be. Right noe, itrs not. Theposition right is for Lots I through 5...
Elhart: rf the plan is for them to be double fronted, of course thething is in this case the developer is not, there is no assurance thatthat street wiLl ever continue t6 go Ehrough there.
Olsen: yes, they are also narrow to where, as Larry mentioned, theyare going to have to work together. I think ttre pr-operfi"""to ttr"north is probably coming 'n ior a subdivisio.. -tii"v-".J-Iir rurg.parcels but they are also narrohr.
Planning Commission Meeting
January 6, 1988 - Page 29
Erhart:in for aline is?
olsen: The lot depth. Right
Erhart: And r^rerve sent on to
Are you talking about the Charles Anderson propertysubdiv j.sion? And they would get access from where-
is com i ngyour blue
O1sen: I havenrt seen the plans.
Ted Kenner: r have tarked to them and they are more interested indeveloping the property to the north. ThEy are looking at the charlesAnderson property and the one just to the lrest of there which i.s ownedby the Pleasant Acres Homeovrners Association. They are looking atdeveloping those tvro parcels together tying both of those off ofPleasant Acres.
Conrad: I still have a problem. It still looks to me like we'reputti ng a whole lot of stuff on a few acres here. I know that ourIegal consultants say it meets the minimum as long as they aII do but
when I see the bike trail and I see the holding pond and I see somevariances and double frontages, it always means, usually when we have a1ot of stuff Iike that it means weire putting too much on a piece ofproPer Ey.
Erhart: Jo Ann are we asking for a variances for double frontage onLot 7 through 7A? Hor,, can rre do that $rhen therers no street there?
Werre not asking for a variance?
Olsen: WhaE you need right now is a variance to that additional feet
requ!.red on Lots 1 through 5.
Headla: Wbat did you say Jo Ann? I didn't follow.
Olsen: Technically they're getting the variance for that additional
10 feet.
Erhart: And the reason for justification of a variance was what?
Olsen: Is that that 10 feet could not be provided hrithout altering.
They can shift the street up here, that would provide more lot depthbut to provide that additional l0 feet, there is no alternative. They
vJould possibly have to remove this Iot and shift it up. Again, we werejust working wiEh the location of thj.s street for accessj.ng the
property to the north. We felt this was a good streeE configuration.
no\^,
the
they would
council to
have to have 160 feet.
change that to 12 5?
Conrad: werre not?
Erhart: And the l0 feet i.s added Eo what?
Headla: Does it look like that's going to fly? Don'E knord.
Larry Wenzel: Subject to r.rhat happens with this given parcel ofproperty -in respect to the other pieces of properiy witrr this masterlayout, that plan, hor., nuch of this is cast in'stoire? it appears ttratwerre ptetty well constricted individually, or even u" .-galop,according to the road systems that have been laid out as far as thelots. Yourve got some variances on thj.s piece of p.op.i tV-.- How manybuir! in variances have they laid in roi ttre rest of us that we'regoing to ha.ve to get comprilnce to even to think of the econonics ofwhether this thing is going to be devel0ped in rgss or-the yeat 300asubject to the value oi what we ".n ".ii-orr piece of land.anatherefore a house for. -rs this the pran thatis qoing io be maintainedsubject to whether that's approved oi not approved?
olsen: - No, the only pran that wourd be maintained would be this one.The only way that this. is- al_terj.ng the impact of the surroundingproperties is that it is designating where future roads "iii u"provided to the norrh and the; it ril:. u" providing this'rr,or" rengthalong here and a road lful g9.= straiqht to the south and erest. That.rsthe onLy thing thatis dictati.ng at this time. tt""" -pi"""
a-re iustgoing to be used for general uie to give us a better picture of whatthe street layouts could possibly ha-ve. staff i.s "oni...r.J with a lotof separate accesses onEo Minne$rishta earkway. w" *"i. tiying to rookat a way to prov ide serv ice t.o arr those lots- arong ileie ,lJnouanecessarily having separate accesses -
Olsen: Yes, and if that does get approved, thenwould meet without the additional 10 feet.
Larry Wenzel: Are they assuming thatbe moved out of there? Thatrs fh" ,uy
most of theit appears.
all of these lots
existing homes will
of an overall
would want to
time they've taken
when you cut this
Olsen: There's really no assumption, it was just kindplan.just to lay it on rop. rhis was like j.f 6u".yUoJysubdivide. There are many possibilities-
Larry Wenzel: Can I get a copy of those variances that you haveristed? The easement for thi i.uir itrul.,s going to-ion,'iI r perceivedit, along Minnerrashta parkrray, ,unnin?-if," irt "fL ,iy.-..,tf,1i,, going tobe taken on erhat, the hrest side of ui,inewasnta parkway?
Olsen: At this point it will be on the r^rest side.
Larry Wenzel: And what are they going to do, just cut another swath inthere? Another g foot swath wes-t -ot tie roaAz
Olsen: Off of the right_of_way.
Larry wenzel: If they do that, this is the thj.rdour stuff. Along here you've got a major hill and
Planning Commission Meet i ng
January 6, 1988 - Page 30
Planning Commission Meeti ngJanuary 6, 1988 - page 3I
Olsen: We have not looked at itwould be reviewed at that time.
at this point. Those sort of issues
away r lost that huge tree fron cutting in the road and it died fromlack of water- Then they put the new slreet i.n and they pitched itwrong and- yourve got all the rdater corning down this ro"t it g0 mphgoing right over a mickey mouse curb that- they put in after it washedthe whore bank out once and out into the rake. Are they going to putsome kind of a storm sewer on this side of the street ttieri arong wittrEhat so handre that kind of a problem? Because yourre increasiig thatgrade dramatically.
Emmings: Jo Ann, arenrt they just reserving an easement on thisfor a possible future trailway. Therers no plan to build it.
connected
cast Eha t to i,rhatever, you approved th j sinto stone and it is there and
plat
show everything. That might have been a pondj.ng
Larry WenzeL: Itrs notdevelopment, it doesn'tsetting a precedent?
Olsen: Thi. s doesn't
area.
Emmings: Just reserving an easement for a possible future trail.
olsen: The Park and Recreation Conmission has a trail plan and
Minnewashta Park$ray is designated to have a trail so as developments
come in, we reserve easenents for that. When it wi II be buiIt, I
couldn I t tel1 you.
Larry wenzeL: I guess I get a little nervous when l see, and ourneighbor John Ziegler of course isn't here, but I see somethjng I ikethat and I'm wondering how much thought process vrent into t.hat thing.
Larry tlenzel: Thatrs alI high ground.
Brown: As Jo Ann point out, the proposed plat has really nothj.ng to do
- ',rith the approval of this. Like I said, a number of these .o1ans could
have been drawn up. You could have come in with five of these. The
only thing about thjs plan is that if Stratford Ridge is approved, if
- Mr. Anderson decided that he wanted to hook into sanitary sewer if he
r.ranted to develop, he may be able to facilitate the sanitary sewer and
water from the Stratford Rj.dge development. That was the only reason
that this report was even Iooked at. To figure out how vre can put in
- piece of the puzzLe if they so choose to develop. But this plan, as
far as the lot layouts, as far as even these parcels are developed, is
strictly up to the lot owner. It's just so if you do decide to
- develop, you have a way of doing that. But as far as the lot layout,
each parcel can come in and propose as long as they meet the 15,ggq
square foot mj.nimum and in accordance to the ordinance. But this
_ Iayout js arbitrary. Itrs just so future development can be made tofacilitate if the need shoul,d occur.
Planning Commj.ssion Meeting
January 5, 1988 - Page 32
Headla: Just so you folks on the commission understand where we,reconing from, none of us had seen this. We didnrt even know it wasgoing on. Al1 of a sudden therers two options. What we're going topossibly do wjth your home, with your property, so it's a ti[tte-shocking. You can look at it objectively but for us, itrs more of anemotional thing the first shot.
Brorrn: I thi.nk also, as pointed out in the report before, some ofthese parcers wilr have trouble meeting the reguirements as far as lotarea by themserves and this report was a $ray oi informing the neighboisthat- if they so choose, they can get togeth6r and deverof tr,is or-havesomebody develop it for. them. if -they have a smaller parcel. It's justanother method of learning, if they h,ant to develop, they should beinformed as to lrhatts out there.
Larry Wenzel: I think youtre right and I,m not disagreeing. It is ashock. when you see your name up there and all thes6 loEs-chopped upand your house doesn,t exist.
Mrs. blenzel: And no road access.
Larry wenzel: Each one of us, even though our piece is L0.5 acres,after Davers explanation, rrm not sure whit we'vl got artei- risteningto i',hat Lawsonrs might or might not. r donrt know who the devil itcomes from but in my particurar case which is inmateriai to this, we,vegot a house here and a house here, which is fine because oi your tareruLes- yourd probably get it brocked off and get t$ro -a;;l water lotsand. the rest of it you deverop or whatever the- case may be but thereyoutve got access that exists from the main streei -".r1 -in" $ray thisappears, aIl of a sudden thatrs changed, even Ehough i.t,s there. Itmight not be and r guess that's what iakes you a rittre nervous.
Erhart: WelI, it may not be because the ordjnance, I believe oncolrectors, itts 36q feet separation for street access. so the whorepurpose of putting together this master glan is u pfun ttia-t everynodyhas future access and still meet Ehe oidin"n"e. you do that bypreventing situations like Ehis devel0per. coming i, and putting Ewocul-de-sacs with no future extension o'r- tn. str6et. -a; ;;;; the planarlowed us to do here is to rrork with the dever.oper to urio, futureaccess of the one street to go up to the MiLdred fi.f"o" p.operty, ifthat person so chooses to deverop without having a airect'access ontoMinnewashta parkway.
Larry Wenzel: yes, but many of the driveways already exist and theyare two distinct and separaLe pieces of proferty, i,oi .in-vou terl menow that this is going to change.
Erhart: No it doesnrt, but if you $ranted to develop, it doeso,tnecessari.ly mean that you can put in a street outlet to Minner.rashta.
Larry Wenzel: I didn't say anything about street outlet, I said twodrive outlets that are already ther6.
Jo Ann Hallgren: I vras the one that had the driveway. My property islandrocked as you can see. The x on the map there, it"t is probabJ.y
- what you wourd consider a wetrand. r have a wetland on the north 6fmy property- Therers a huge ravine that runs Eo the western part of myproperty and arl the $ray to the rairroad tracks. what r'm gelting at -
is, on the lot selection, the driveway easement, the one thatrs not- going to be developed into a public slreet, is considered an outrot.That'!s srhat the staff has stated. To me, ihat i= my only access Eo myproperty. But the property owners property goes down fuither than a
- public street would give more sguare footage-than r,rhat h,ould exist withthe existi.ng easement. rrm wondering if that wourd be a problem thererf a pubric street were to be continued back. can you taie acreagefrom the lots ?
Pl ann i.ng Commission Meeting
January 6, 1988 - page 33
I would like a condition to serve my
Erhart: Yourve got 33 feet there.
Olsen: Yourve got 33 feet but not the 50 feet.
Ted Kenner: We have shown on the preliminary plat
additional right-of-way along Lots 7 througi"r lA for
expansion in there so it would be 50 feet wide.
reserving 17 foot offuture s treet
-Conrad: You've never talked about burning the house Dave.
Headla: Oh yes, I wanted to thank you. I rrranted to discuss
-What happens if they canrt come up vrith L5,606 square feet on
Block 2? What happens to all the work thatrs done here?
tha t.Lot 1,
Olsen: To
-var i ance.
establish a
-Emmings:plat saystruth andto and it
get approval, they would have to receive a lot
What you could probably do, i,rhat you probably
condition that Lot 1, Block 2...
area
should do, is
Why do we have to do that? Werve approved this plat. Thisj.t has 15,qqq. If it doesnrt, than they haventt told us thethen theyrve got a problem so werll just assume theyrre gojng
will be up to staff to check and make sure they do.
olsen: Yourd have to work with that property owner.
-Jo Ann Hallgren: What if he's the one that says no?
olsen: r thi.nk what $re were Looking at hrhen the additionar right-of-
_way would be required, that it would also be $rorking with the propertywith this house.
Jo Ann HaIIgren: Fi na 11y,
-problem.
Plannj ng Commission Meet i ng
January 5, 1988 - page 34
Head la :
Emm i ngs :
Headla:
Emmings:
trouble a
Head Ia :
They have to
No.
If they donrt
come back agai n?
make it
enough over there to mak e that one L5,090 I would th j.nk without an v
Dave, look at the lot
t all. If they do
15, aqa .
next door is L7,5gg. They can steal
need
it at
it.
I j ust erant to see 15,0g6.
Emmings: werl, thatrs what the plan says. staff has to make sure thathappens. Thatrs what we're approving.
Emmings moved, Erhart seconded that the planning commissiorr recommendapproval of Subdivision #87-32 as shown on the llat stamped rReceived
December 14, 1987" and subject to the following conditiorisl
1. The right-of-way south of Lots 7 through I0 shall bedesignated as an outlot.
2. Lots I-5, Block 2 shall provide an additional 19 feet ofdepth or an approved detailed Iandscaping plan providingscreening from Minnewashta parkvray.
3. ?he existing building and debris shall be removed from thesite upon approval of the appropriate permits.
4. provision of a 2A foot trail easement on the west side ofMinnewashta parkway.
5. Type rr erosion contror, staked hay bares and snow fence,shall be placed along the south siSe of Lots I, S ana tg.
5- A typicar detair for type rr erosion control, staked haybales and snow fence, shall be placed on the grading plan.
7. Wood fiber blankets or equivalent shall be used to stabilizeall disturbed slopes greater than 3:I.
AII streets and utilities sha1l be constructedto the City's standards for urban construction.
8
9
i n accordance
an eightThe $ratermain shall either be looped or increased toinch di.ameter. No dead-end stubs shall be allorred.
lg.All erosion control measures sha l1 be in place pr ior to thecommencement of any grad i ng .
Planning Commission Meeting
January 6, 1988 - Page 35
11.
12,
r4.
15.
\II voted
The applicant shall enter into a development agreement withthe City and provide the necessary financial s-ureties as apart of this agreement for complelion of the improvements.
The applicant shall obtain and comply with all conditions ofthe Watershed District and DNR per:nil .
The proposed manhole 2 shall be lowered to its minimumpossible elevation such that service from the north of theeasterly proposed cul-de-sac may be facilitated.
Drainage easements shall be adjusted to cover the entireponding site should shifting of the pond be necessary.
The curb radius as shown in Attachment #3 shall be replacedby a curb transition section as shown in Attachmeht #4.
in favor except Ladd Conrad who opposed and motion carr ied.
too
tha t
to
-Conrad: The reason for my opposition is I still think there are
rnaoy pieces of land on thjs piece of property. I r.rould recommendrne parcel be eliminated and I think that r.rould solve a lot of myroncerns with the subdivision.
leadla: On the building on the property, the Fire DepartmenE. talked
_le and said they were interested in burning it. Did Dick wingerfinally get a hold of you?
lobert Pierce: I guess I hadn't contacted anybody at this point
Decause I r,ranted to geE to this point before I made any other
arrangements.
-eadla: Can vre tell them to get in touch v,rith you Ehen?
^obert Pierce: Sure.
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A RECREATIONAL BEACHLOT.
:o Ann Olsen presented the stafffor a recreational beachlot.
report on the conditional use permit
_rhart: Whatrs happened here in the procedural changes?
^lsen: we confirmed with the Attorney and the zoning ordj.nance...
Erhart: I{e've been voting on the zonj.ng ordinance since I've been onthe Commission. Now al1 of a sudden that,s not the way it J.s anymorer have we been doing it wrong?
PLannin9 Commission MeetingJanuary 6, 1988 - Page 36
olsen:
depth.
states
No,
As
tha t
you've been voting on variances to subdivisions and the lotfar as the recreational beachlot, the zoning ordinancevariances should be reviewed by the Soard 6f Adjustments.
Erhart: That ordinance specifically is different than the...
Olsen: Under the zonj.ng ordinance.
Roger Knutson: There are two ordinances. The subdivision and zoni.ngordinance- Recreationar beachrots are in the zoning ordinance. Therequi rements rdith a dock is l0o _foot depth. If you-want to g"t aroundthat requirement, it needs a variance a nld the ,oni.ng orJinin". ..y"that goes to the Board of Adjustment and Appears. ine subdivisioi is aseparate ordinance. rt doesnrt have to go to the Board of Adjustmentand Appeals. you can decide that.
Erhart: we're not chaning anything, werre just forrowing the rures onthi.s one. Itrs a lot easier for uj.' The only thing rre,re dealing withhere. is just sinpry approving or disapproving- trre ulactrrot as it fitsour beachrot ordinance? simply that. -the oriry issue we have to dealwith is essentially the plan oi tte beachlot. Then the oniy qoestion rl:::-l:l in proposing rhe change from "i"p" to a ramp, are you norrnvrrrng 3-$rheelers to come driving down that to our-nice b6acha
Ted Kenner: Thatrs always a problem when you have a ranp. At the sametime, r can see what th!-stJtf is suggest-ing ro. s.tetv-, if you need toget down there in case of emergency.
Erhart: But in case of emergency, thenstretch.e! and they can carry him up thecarry him...
donr t
steps
they put thejusE as wel l
guy on a
as they can
olsen: stretchers have wheels on Ehem.
Erhart: I don't know. - frm not an expert on either one but I,d sureluy?r !!" steps over- the ramp. t don"t know if it,s r.rorth getting intoa big discussion. That's the only thing i;ve -S"t.- -
Headra: who rooks at the tree prantings? There are some beautifuroaks -there and r just want to *-ak" su.-e that the our." "tuv.- w.rr,yourd have every reason to want to keep them too.
Olsen: That will be approved by the DNR forester, Allan Olsen.
conrad: The planning commi.ssion rooks at a conditi.onar use permit,L'hat are Lre rookino at? what are the conditions that w",r" *e.=u.ingEhis against? rt -seems rike the conditions that rde,re measuringagainst are not in our por.rer to measure but the Board of aalustments i.srneasuring.
Planning Commission Meeting
January 6, 1988 - Page 37
olsen: we looked
beachlot. . .
Conrad: But not the depth.
olsen: You look at whether it
Conrad: And it doesn i t.
Olsen: When it
Adj ustments.
at it meeting the conditions of the recreational
Werre not looking at area size.
meets the condi tions.
Coesn't, that's when you want it to go to the Board of
Conrad: So, what
olsen: It meets
dock.
are the conditions that werre
the conditions of just a basic
looking at?
beachlot without a
the dock but thatrs out of our
it does meet all of the conditions
emergencies and
ramp. And werre not
Olsen: Yes. You have the lake frontage.
Conrad: And 808 of the houses are located within L,6@Q feet? okay.
we asked the Public Safety Director to review the safety of this Iot,
crossing Minnewashta Parkvray. Did he ever do Ehat for us?
Olsen: He commented on the stairs. Yes and no, people are going to be
crossing the street... He felt that the bigger issue was...
Conrad: And the steps sj.mply just for'access,
handicap? That's hard for me to v j.sualize, a
concerned with where the beach is placed?
Headla: Does the buj lder feel he has to have a ramp?
Robert Pj.erce: No, I guess iE's rea1ly up to you.
Erhart: Ladd, I think it is within our duties to make comments about
the plan. The layout and where the sand is. I think thatrs one of the
few things we do have input on.
olsen: In the report I did review that we did wan! more detailed plans
if they review the beachlot. I did not make that a condition'
Conrad: Yes, I didnrt see that as a condition here. whatrs staffrs
opinion? I think this is a good outlot for recreation. I think the
"-orr"e.., we had Iast tiIne Jo Ann rras the 40 feet. The distance betereen
the lake and the road is 4o feet and is that accePtable in terms of how
people are handled? If you get 13 lots, or whatever j.E is, more than
ttral, 15 lots, can that 40 feet of depth, which we're not I'ooking at,
Erhart: The depth j.s required forjurisdiction. Let me correct this,
for just a standard beachlot?
Planning Commission Meeti n9
January 6, 1988 - Page 38
handle that many people? OriginaIly, I thj.nk the I0g feet is simply toseparate, give people room away from property and I think with the roadthere and everything, I have no problem with that. I.m sure the Boardof Adjustments will accept that but there is obviously a clearseparation betrdeen the outlot and peoplers land and therefore itts notgoing to be a great deal of impact on those Lots 3, 4 and 5. My
concern goes back to, are we allowing something, have we designed theright amount of space for people who are going to use that? 40 feet isreally not a whole lot for a beach. Especially, Irm donrt knorr, hoe,
much of that is useable for a beach.
Robert Pierce: Maybe I can take this a step back, about the steps orthe ramp. I guess, if I had my r^ray Ird rather probably put steps inbecause of ease of maintenance and I th j.nk they can just make ii nicerIooking but again, itrs not anything one way or the other. It wouldproably just make it look a little nicer with those steps. Then goingto the 4a foot, we have a major rength of shoreline theie and the Iindof beaches that I take my ki.ds to, a lot of them out on the lake, a lotof times where we go we are probably, the sand beach depth and therewourd be quite a few other boats, a lot of time that belch is not morethan just a few feet. And here, $re $rould make it deeper than that pluswe would make it 8q to IAA feet...
Conrad: Yourre comfortable you can solve the problem that thesehomeowners are going to put on the beachlot?
Robert Pierce: We rdant to make an attractive situationItrs to our advantage, as much as anybodyrs, to be ablesomething that wj II be desirable and that they can seeenjoy.
for everybody.to have
theyrre going to
Headla:
OI sen :
Head 1a :
Ol sen :
Did you rrant to fit the point there, Jo Ann?
About the more detailed plans?
Yes.
Sure.
HeadIa moved, Erhart seconded that the planning
approval of Conditional Use permit #g7_I7 for asubject to the following conditions:
The recreational beachlot shaII not havevariance to the lot depth requirement isBoard of Adjustments and City CounciI.
Commission recommendrecreational- beachlot
a dock unless agranted by the
1
unless a
granted by
2-The proposed dock shall not have 4 overnight slipsvariance to the lim j.tation of overnight sto..ge isthe Board of Adjustment and City CounciI.
Planning Comm j. ss i on Meeting
January 6, 1988 - Page 39
ALI additi.onal standards established for a recreati.onal
beachlot in the Zoning Ordinance must be met.
A tree removal plan nust be subnitted to the City and DNR forapproval prior to any alteration to Outlot A.
The applicant must submit a
recreaEional beachlot.
more detaj.Ied plan of the
All voted in favor and motion carried.
WETLAND ALTERATION PERMIT TO CONSTRUCT A PUBLIC STREET WITHIN A CLASS B
3
4
5
WETLAND AND FOR CONSTRUCTION WITHIN 2OO FEE"I OE A CLASS B WETLAND.
Jo Ann OI sen
Permi t.
presented the staff report on the Vletland Alteration
Conrad:
Class Bpart of
Can you build on a Class B wetland? Can you
wetland is not buildable, isnrt that right andarea that we use to calculate densities.
build a house? A
therefore is not
olsen: werve alvrays used that.
Conrad: wetlands are not buildable tho ugh
them in
Jo Ann.
Erhart: Yes, but you still include your overall ac reag e.
olsen: Yes, I think r^re do. The developer has done it. I'm trying to
think, like for Hidden Valley. When we had that large vretland in that
marsh area down there, I bel ieve that went j. nto the net densi ty, we did
not include that -
Conrad: But in terms of individual lot size,
subdivision, but in terms of the overall Iot
make up the 15,AqO sqtare foot minimum?
not
size.
the over al l
A wetland
plat or
will help
Erhart: The only rule we have is the setback from the building.
Robert Pierce: You have in the pasE because I know of one other
subdivision here and they i.ncl-uded the wetlands. It wasnrt this, it
was a Class.A wetland and they were jncluded in bhe calculations of the
1ots.
olsen: with the Lake Riley woods subdivision, it was then-
that open pondj.ng area in the Lake Riley woods, we included
square foo t
studied it.
Even w i. th
that.
Erhart: Irm not sure it's appropriate fox 15r600
it is for the 2 L/2 acre. Thatrs how I know I've lots but
HeadIa: Yourve allrays included wetlands in your density calculations?
Planning Commission Meet i ngJanuary 6, 1988 - page 40
olsen: Now we have the 2 l/2 acre lot, a minimumIf it rdasnrt shown as a wetland, we wouldn't have
Erhart:
the s ide
!{ha t you ha veof the hi 11.
is a 6 inch dip there is wha t it realIy
of I acre buildable.
known.
1S On
Headla: There
walked throughright away.
good swales up there
looked at it ina Uoy,
Ann, Rockwell and IIocked on that
are
it
pre t ty
and she
Jo
she
Conrad: What,s it like off this property? Ho$, much more is a CIass Brdetland?
olsen: rt does continue to drain over here to Ehe norihwest. There isa Iarge, and it shows on this map. r think r might ti"" .ou...d it upwith this but there is a rarger, better wetrand to the northr.rest.
conrad: r donrt know how c10se1y related to the permit, what are wecommunicating here as we a11ow fitfing of the g in terms of theadjacent properties? Are we saying thlt we donrt care for the Brs inthat. area? _ We,ve got- an atternitirie, which i" u"".jiuUi", fo. anotherholding pond that Rockwelr feers is a subsitute u"t'Jo"s-itrutcommunic-ate anythin-g about the neighboring part oi -trrii-wefianaz
whatare we thinking Jo Ann?
orsen: when we visited the site she fert that it is i.mportant to thedrainage and that other r^retland tras the important wetfanO. As statedthat -was our oprimum place to provide the ionds "n;-t;; ;;"rd mainrainthe dra inage.
Headla: we were dumping a lot of lrater in there that wasnrt affecting,a Iittle bit on the northwest corner Uut, affecting the adjoiningproperties. yourre getting faster runoff into tnJ ;;j.i;i;gproperties.
Olsen: Now $re are? . Actually they're bringing over the drainage theother sray. so rrhat ll"y,:. Jctuatry aoing-is taking nut;;;i drainageand going to that wetland pond. wJ ala look at that, we walked overthere and 100ked at that other wetral "na that rdas the i.mportant onethat she erould not want to see fiffea o] altered.
conrad: okay, rrm comfortabre with the exchange but r guess I,n stirla Iittle bit not sure. I haven,t seen the property.
E.Jr1:t: .Addressing your thoughts there, I guess in the Riley Lakesubdivision we had a crass e weurand- ttL." ina that was even marginar,Class E, but !,rhat we made them do *u" """".rtiaIIy move it over a littlebit and turn it into a crass a """"nti-"i'rv. No, there rde noved it overa little bit. Here $re,re moving i,;;;;"=. r think it would bepreferabre arso to take that riit:.et-i-J and move it down to the edge ofthat lot. I think that would hu;;;"""; a,so a nicety. To maintain,
Planning Commission Meeting
January 6, 1988 - page 4I
shape toareas for
The basin will have free form (no even-sided)increase shoreline length and provide isolatedfeeding and nesting bi rds.
The basin will have
10:I to 20zL fox at
encourage growth offood for wildlife.
shallow embankments with slopes ofIeast 30t of the shoreline toemergent vegetation as refuge and
again reduce the amount of runoff on that rot and arso to mai.ntain that- little crass B or even the small rittre pond down there into a class A.rt certainry wourd not have lrur t that 1oi because you know that houseis not going to be built right there.
- Head.r-a: How big is this basin going to be? r donrt see anything hereon the area.
- Robert pierce: I donrt have it with me at this time.
Headla: What would you guess it would be?
Erhart: yes, compared to the old one. was that area an existing crassA wetland r,rhere that basin is?
-Headla: Class B.
Erhart: That was B by Minnewashta parkway?
Conrad: No, that's noth j.ng.
_Olsen: That never r^ras a vretland.
HeadIa: That wou ld be a quarter of an acre basin i.n the north$restcorner of that property? rs that what werre talking about? That vrhore-swale goes up betvreen 5 and 6 but where would this .25 acres be?
Sonrad: The drainage pond is right on the parkway.
Browo: That .25 encompasses this area here that r have yellowed.
_{eadla: Okay, I don't have any problem with i.t.
Irhart moved, Headla seconded that the planning commission recommend-?pproval of Wetland Alteration permit #g7-16 to permit the alterationof a Class B wetland with the following conditions:
1. The proposed sedimentation basin shall be designed to thefollowing six criteria so that it r"rill also be as a wetlandarea:
Planning Commission Meet i ngJanuary 6, 1988 - page 42
The basin will have uneven, rolling bottom contour forvariable hrater depth to (a) providJ foraging areas ;;;species of wildlife feeding in shallow vrater (0.5 to 3feet) and (b) encourage groith of emergent vegetation -
areas of shallow r"rater and thereby incieaseinterspersion of open water rdith ".".g"nt vegetation.
The basin will have a layer of topsoil (muck from anexisting wetland being filled) on bottom of basin toprovide a suitable substrate for aquatic vegetation.
g
nI
d
e The basin will have water level controlpipe, etc.) to minimize disturbances ofthe $ret I a nd .
(culverts, riser
wi ldI i fe using
of
t The basin will have fringe of shrubs on uplandsurrounding the basin to minimize disturbanceswildlife using the wetland.
)
Conrad:faxed. I
th r o ugh.there wasdo it but
The applicant must
Engineers.receive a permit from the Corps of
AIl voted in favor and motion carried.
Conrad: I guess the only discussion I have is, in concept I wish wecould have figured out a $ray to enhance the weiland tni-f ,"i." fillingin and use that as a drainaa" ";;;;;-arso as an asset.
Headla: one of the things- I think, there,s a subtle thing, werrepreventing a 10t of r^'ater fro-m going i;t that real h,etlands into thenorthgrest and we,ve neve-r ra.tke-d "b;ua;what.is th" ;;;t-i;f,act on tharwetland? I don't know if it,s 1A of i;; water that normally goes inEhere or is it 25t ox 4gZ.
r think as that area develops, that rretland,s going to bethink the other r.retlanas wifi U. o=.J to drain runoffIt wiIl have it's cla potentiar ".". oi'31?;rt: *:.i:.". ,.'."#'":""'".:' 1r"".:.r#:this is an alternative t.liat," -u"."ptutf..
This j tem was tabted per Ehe ap pI icant,s request.
PUBLIC HEARING:
ffireffiu-="-wffi+ffi,,,-*
PUBLIC HEARING: CoNDITIoNAL UsE PERMIT TopERM r r ro ExpANp @-pEllE-w-6-nxs- au rm r NG
I N DU s T R I A L onr rEe PA n K-EfrD-r,deETEp -ET--I s sTeHENHAs-EN.
RECEIVE A CONDITIONAL USE
ON PROPERTY ZONED I OP,p-enl-@-grgT-
Planning Comm j.ss j.on Meet j ngJanuary 6, 1988 - page 43
Barbara Dacy waived the staff report given the hour of the meeting.
Chairman Conrad opened the public hearing.
close public hearing. All voted inHeadIa moved, Erhart seconded tofavor and motion carr ied.
Erhart moved, Emmings seconded that the pranning commission recommendsapproval of Conditional Use permj.t #87_19 to expand the existing publicworks facility as shown on the site plan stamped "Received December 1-5,1987." All voted in favor and motion carried.-
APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Emmings inoved, Erdi'IEl-oFtEE-TfInEi ns comi i ss i on mee
amended by Dave Headla on page 7, andAII voted in favor and motion carried.
rhart sJconded to approve theting dated December 9, l9g7 as
Ladd Conrad on pages 3, 4 and 9.
ORGANI ZAT IONAL
Conrad: Any changes to our By-Iaws?
Emmi.ngs: Yes, right at the bottom, 2.1. .It says reguLar meetings willbe the second and f ourth weeks of each month and we'r e doing i t on thefi rst and third-
Erhart: Can we change it from Wednesdays?
Emmings: Not me.
Erhart: I'd prefer Monday. Opposite Mondays. Any person thattravels, Wednesdayrs the worse day of the $reek. you canrt lravelanyplace. You never travel for one day. you always travel for 2 or 3.
Dacy: Mondayrs yourre limited to first and third Mondays because theCouncil is meeting the second and fourth Mondays. The first and thj.rd
Mondays are traditionally falling on aIl the Monday holidays. Tuesdaysare Park and Rec. Thursdays i.s the HRA. They only meet once a monthon the third Thursday of the month so the available days are either
Wednesday or Thu r sday.
Erhart: I wouldn't ask you to change jt for me. If you had one of theother members here who had the same problem with traveling and heagreed, then I think it would be r.rorth discussing.
ITEMS: ADOPTION OE PLANNING COMMISSION BY-LAWS.
Conr.ad: Monday's are okay with me as long as they work for staff.llonday and wednesdays are equarly good. i have piobrems on other daysbut why donrt rde wait and see whit-the new commiisioners have in termsof their schedures. r think $re're adopting these ,Gti1., but thatdoesn I t inean we can't change that any iirne ,e r^rant to.
Emmings: r have a suggestion too on the By-raws. Therers a sentencethat carries over from page I to page 2 and then the next sentencesays, regular meetings shall have a curfew of ll:30 and that,smandatory tanguage. I just wonder if ere shouldn,t say, I erould like toend ou.r meetings by 11:00. On the other hand, if we teel 1ike we,vegot a half hour more of business or in the miadte of somettrinq,"iihinritis dumb to say, we've got to go home now. Maybe it shduld sayregurar.meeti.ngs sharr have a curfew of Lr:6a pim. which ruv u. waivedat the discretion of the chairman. That,s whai we J; ;y;;'y so lrhyshouldnrt it say that.because you're the chairnan una you;J'lik" toexercise your discretion.
Conrad: Absolutely and I Ijke 11:00.
Emmings: A1so, I read Section I and I don,t know, I guess Irve beenhere long enough no$, so that what it. said kind of putinto focus whatwerre supposed to be doing here a little bit. r sort oi L.. aeray $,itha clearer j.dea. I j ust recornmend j.t to your reading.
Planning Commission Meet i ngJanuary 6, 1988 - page 44
VICE-CHA IRMAN.
Erhart moved, Headla seconded toSteven Emmings as Vice-Cha i rman.carried.
Headla moved, Erhart seconded to adopt theas amended. All voted in favor and motion
Planning Commission By-laerscarri ed.
Dacy: I had three phone nominations.Chairman and Steve as Vi.ce_Chairman.to use them for nominations.
They are unan j. mousf have ballots here
for Ladd asif you want
elect Ladd
A11 voted
Conrad as Chai rnan andin favor and motion
Headla: I hear something I really can't get my hands on and say thisis it, but apparently thJre is becoming a_ probrem of uncapped welrs.Like us, we had our own i{ells and then the sewer rrent in ina then thatr^rerl lays dormant. rrm hearing that it's graduarlv u."o.iiq a probrembut r.re don't knor/r hor., ro cap them ana mare-ttr;;?;1i;;1i., r" tn.rpart of our concern? r thi;k i.t probabry should re. 'itr-o-r.iri we uelooking at that?
ELECTION OE CHAIRMAN AND
PLAI\]NING COMMISSION 1988 GOALS AND OBJECTIVES.
Pl,ann j ng Commission MeetingJanuary 6, 1988 - page 45
Dacy:
Sa fe ty
Headla:
you hear
I wanted toit and i t's
Maybe not necessarily the plannj.ng Commission but the public
Commissioner cou Ial .
fit in but
Erhart: Are we going to be finished with the upgrading of the CompPlan this year?
* Dacy: Yes.
Erhart: What issues are remaining?
Dacy: I,Ie stilL have the Transportation Chapter and ImplementationChapter and there will be another chapter that staff witt be adding.
- Erhart: Markrs coming back again.
_ Dacy: Yes, Mark wil-l be at the next meetj.ng in January.
Emmings: But when do you thing wetll be done wj.th it?
_ Dacy: Mark is going to be bringing a detailed, a general schedule tothe next meeting. what we're Iooking at is January, February and l,tarchfinishing up the chapter reviews and possibty J.ooki.ng at an information
_ meeting and publi.c hearings at the beginning of the summer.
Emmings: How many public hearjngs? Is there more than one?
-Dacy: OnIy one j.s required by State Law but given the immensity of theproj ect .
_ Erhart: Is anybody interested in it?
Dacy: Yes. The Transportation Chapter will be the most controversj.al
because of the proposed i.ntersection of TH l0l. The bigger issue ofthe Comp Plan is going to get narrowed down Eo that.
Emmings: What about the northern alignment of
-to be a big issue?
TH 2L2? Is that gojng
bring it up. I djdn.t know where wehard to get information on it.
Dacy: That may be diverted from the Comp
MnDot js almost through with the of f icjal
Plan to some extent because
map.
Erhart: Youtre saying the Comp Plan, one of the focus points is going
to be that TH 101 interchange on TH 5?
Dacy: We're jncluding those recommendations jnto Ehe proposed
Transportation Chapter.
Erhart: werve not seen that yet?
Planning Comm j. ss ion Meeting
January 6, 1988 - page 46
Dacy: You wi 11 be
sentence on a piece
seeing that next time. Even though it occupiesof paper, it represents 9 months of work.
one
as large subdivisions as Lakenumber of smaller subdivisions
Erhart: What does it Iook Iike this year as far as the number ofsubd.i_vi sions coming in? rs it going -to be as b;=t "; i";1 fear do youthink?
Dacy: I think obviously it
Susan HiLls West. I thinklike you saw this evening.
will not beyourll see a
Erhart: Just long range planning.
Dacy: Therers another issue kind of hidden in goal 3 that staff isjust beginnins to too-k at, some-sign ordinance ;;;;g;.' isplciarry inthe downto$rn area. Now that werre final:.zlng the street andlandscaping prans here, werre going to uring io tt. c-o.. i J" io., "o*"discussion items on signage in trri downtown and commercial districts.That hasn't been furry covered. Along rrith. rh. ;;r;;-i;'ir-orisexeepingstuff, that al-ways seems to come up ,ith othu. jssu6s. - --
Conrad: I canrt think ofwell completed.
Dacy: These are the j.ssues that
Emmings: Downto$rn Chanhassen.
Conrad: you knor"r, that cockeyed
Enmings: I looked at it from thefrom TH 5 and it Looks fine.
any major things. The trail system is pretty
we r^rant to start looking at.
bujlding.
other side tonj.ght though, corning up
Conrad: The sign ordinance is that atseeing variances or you're seei.ng needsacconodated with the sign ordinance?
your rmpetus because your rethat are not going to be
Dacy:. rt rearry started with the erhore dohrnt.own redeveropment effort.Remember when the planning commission talked uuooi "nti"nIe signs intothe community? Where they_ shoul.d be placed and whai it"y-"toofO fooflike? we kind of startedtrom that discussion "na roorei al, now ao rewant an entrance on TH 5 to rook and how do we want the iowntown torook? Do r', e i'yant r0 rarge AMoco signs or a bi9 arook.i"-iup"..tte signon the main street.
Headla: rf r come in from my place and turn down here on po$rers Brvd.
::i"l t"" a sign yourre entering Chanhassen, I,11 burn the damm thing
think it does at aIl.paraIIeI to anything.I thi.nk it
It Ioo ks
Conrad: It does? you see, I don, tlooks real out of pLace. Itrs not
PIa nn j. ng Commissj on Meeting
January 6, 1988 - page 47
terr ibIe. It really does.
*Dacy: Yourre talking to the wrong people.
lonrad: I realize that. Who should we talk to? As a ci.tizen
-lho should we talk to, to get that changed?
)acy: You should talk to Don.
-Conrad: I canrt imagine what you can do to make that...
Irhart: We can make a resolution of the planning Commj.ssion.
Conrad: To do wha t?
_arhart: Change it.
Conrad: f donrt think that's a planning issue j.s j.t?
Barbara,
-eadla: Bill Boyt took a strae, vote at one of our Rec Center meetings,
SLg,Agq.Ag to move it. Whatever, just to turn it around. Thoselecisions are easy to me, you leave it.
Conrad: Dave, it's a real mistake.
_leadla: When you come i.n, you see it right away and I've been assuredtime and again that it's going Eo r.rork out alright.
_:rhart: After we get Ehe trees in ptace?
Conrad: I canrt imagine how you can make it, I bought the argumentrarbara, that hrerre going to make i.E look good off of TH 5 but then
-/hen I took a look at it comi.ng in from TH 5, itrs not parelle toanything. All it does is contrast against the back of pauly's. Is'here any landscaping thatrs going to occur at the back of Pauly's?
Tacy: Right. The downtown project js half done. Wetre waiting forthe spring thaw.
-onrad: But that's going to be a parki.ng lot back there right?
and park benches inacy: Ri. ght, and
_ront and it will
'onrad: So when
ersonal opi nion
Dacy: Thatrs my
-onrad: you getjust ama zed . . .
there will be landscapi.ng around,
be a part of the whole desigo.
you say you thj.nk i.t's going to be good, is that your
or is that the public line?
opi nion.
j.nto aesthetics Ij.ke that, and it's individual but I'm
Emmings: But you can conceive of several places to put the buildingthat you know are going to provoke a 1arge number of people. you canalso. consider praces to put it r.rhere it -isn't going ti pio""x" anybody.r think that r courd design that rittle area, r'm not a designer and rcould do a better job.
Dacy: r think what we're happy about is the anount of comment that ithas generated.
Pl ann i. ng Commission Meeting
January 6, 1988 - page 48
Emmings: Yes, it t s
Dacy: WeIl, it is
worry about.
wonderful. A Iot of negative conunents.
because if thatrs the only thing that we have to
in two years when we want toto have a four lane road going
I stilI l-ike it and I think people are go j ng to
Emming_s: Has anyone said they realry thi.nk it was a stroke of just abeautiful eray to put the building theieZ
Dacy: Yes, there is a faction of people that do like it. And we sa!,tho-sg p99ple when you were interviewing. There were people who said, Irearly. like what you guys did wiEh the rocation of the ii.ty Hurt. Thenthe other half said, this really sti.nks so I think it,s sptit. It,s5g-59. The north side of TH 5, who can see it from the no-rth side, areagainst it but I think coming from the south, it looXs good-
conrad: Does it real.ly? It doesnrt even rook perpendicurar to theroad. I think it's a definite reflection on the downtown. Thedo$r_ntown is a rearly nice project in my mind and this is a surfacedea1. Itrs a real Mickey Mouse deal a n-d people say, hey, they can,teven line up a bui.lding. Then the roads are too narrow and wl're goingto have traffic. I've heard aLl the comments about downtown andtherers a lot of negative about downtown. A whole bunch of negative.
Dacys Itrs half done.
Erhart: Is the street wide enough soremove the center curbs, are we goingEhrough the downto$rn.
Dacy: You guys, yourre going to drive me cxazy. Jim Lasher stood inhere and he -showed you t!ro boards. Roadway alignment A and B. A r.rasEhe one with the median and B was the one wittro,it the median-Everybody said go with the median because you have the trees, you haveEhe Iandscapi ng. . .
Conrad: yes, I d id.
change.
Erhart: Ifrom now,
thi.nk it's not going to work.more than 509 vrill say it's a
If you take a
mi stake.
poI1 two years
Planning Commission Meeting
rnuary 5, f988 - Page 49
t >nrad: I donrt see it as a major activity and Ird rather haveFeing major. Obviously the Comprehensive plan is a major thing.like to have some dates on it however so we can get it through.
.)nrad: Okay, finalizing our goals. The Ehird point, continue/aluation of development ordinances. Thatrs realIy, yourre just doingEhat because you wanl more than two rjght? That's soit of Ii-ke a jobresponsibility. Unless it's real specific, it doesnrt mean much r-ight)tr. We will do that. I guess what I,d Iike to do, are there anyercher specific things that anybody here thinks we shourd be addressing?
Do we vrant to put the si.gn ordinance review as a fact or should we justrt that come in as a housekeeping?
Headla: Have it come in as housekeeping.
;hart: I had an idea to develop a landscaping plan for the arterialsin the City. In other lrords, t.o take TH 101 and like TH 41 and the onetnning up here. On the new developments, they're nice. They'reI :inging in those big pJ.ne trees and stuff and putting berms along like
Powers BIvd.. Itrs real nice but in the old developments where theyCi.dn't do that, itrs just hodge podge of dirt piled up here and there.' le worse being TH 101 going north. I'd like to see us spend somefit!ney, maybe this year, to have a master plan by one of the consultantsthat we use alI the time. If we could somehow find monies to go backi ld planE larger trees and try and clean up on all these arterials.
i-us when we do new ones, that therers a plan because I think that's
one of the major niceties about a c j.ty brhen you drive on the arterials
: ; itrs aestheticalty nice. Right now the developers, I think werre
: rternally sort of done it because we know the problems and they are
&ing a good job on each development but I think it'd be good to have a
nnster PIan.
lEadla: That might be appropriate the $ray we're looki.ng at putt ing in
a trail system too. That may go right along wj.th that.
these
r'd
a Limited
l0-15
I hart: If we could start
s-ale every year, along THyears. I think itrs money
( nrad: whatever happened
oord i nate last year?
doing some planti ngs
I01, it,rould be just
vrel l spen E.
no w, even
a matter
on
of
to Arbor Day that you were going to
Lcy: So a landscaping program for major streets?
E-hart: I'm thinking def ini.tely the aterials, even TH 5. I donrt know
i you r^rant to include collectors yet. Maybe collectors. MostIy Irm
tiinking of TH 101, Pot{ers Blvd., CR 17.
tr rmings: TH 4I sure has a flavor alI itrs own with aIl these pine
Uees.
Planning Commission Meet i ng
January 6, 1988 - Page 56
Erhart: we had a tree giveaway. We gave away trees out in front ofKennyrs, abott 2,AA0 seedlings.
Conrad: Any zoning ordinance that r^,e want to look at? Any ordinancefor that matter.
Emmings: one thing that came up tonight. I think we should just keepalert to opportunities. When questions come up. One that came uptonight is this beachlot thing. you were worried about the 40 feet indepth of that one and I was sitting here thinking, isn't it better,since yourve got lhe area, to spread out those 15 households overthat... It seems better to me. l.laybe we could kick some of thataround. Maybe we could trade some depth for sone extra width.
Headla: Go on an area basis?
Emmings: Well do it on an area basis but if yourre not going to havethe LgO feep in depth, f j.rst of all that only applies to a dock Iguess, but if yourre not going to have the IOO feet in depth, maybe ifyoufve got over tt:.e 296 feet in width. Maybe that should make adif ference. I don't know-
Conrad: That one we'tl probaby be looking at. I don't knov, whatCity council's going to do with that. If they're going Eo ask uslook at the beachlot. Do you want to force that to happen Steve?you vrant us to put that dorrn as an agenda item for us?
the
fo
Do
Emmings: I don't think it,s a goal. The other thing that came uptonight, is we could be looking at the wetlands thing again. Both ofthose tonight, we hit situations where on the' beachlot ahing it seemedright to let them have a beachlot there. To me it sure did and in alot of ways j.t seemed right to let Rivkin have his channel .
Erhart: I guess my feeling on that deal is, anybody who comes in herewith a wetland improvement proposal, he,II geE through. Therefore, Idonrt think we need a change in the wetland.
conrad: r donrt think we do ei ther. r think $rith Rockwellrs gui.dance,werve been really pretty, shers realIy been very fair I think as thingshave come through. Rear fair. Not just sticking to the retter of thelaw but really looking at the $retland. I have a great deal ofconfidence in her.
Emmings: What are we going Eo do in her absence?
OIsen: She has somebody else in the office that we can deal with whowi lI come out .
Erhart: I think werve gotten a lot more educated inknow I have. Woull it 6ave been unreasonable to askput a walkway underneath Minnewashta parkway to get
the last year. Ithat developer toto that?
Pl, ann i ng Commission Meetingrnuary 6, 1988 - page 5l
_-sen: ttre d i scus sed the developer and
under there like
it wi th
culvert'nmings: Just put a, rttle through.
Olsen: Even that, there's a safety issue.
-.-'adla: That'd be a toughsewer Iines and the water
'rere you'd like to put a
Prmings: BRW would al readye erything so they wouldn,t
there i.s a cost.
they used to, to put
because you've got the tvroIine just at the right I evelThat could be real costly.
one to do thereIine and the gas
r"ralkeray through.
Erhart: On this landscapingcet studies done?
thing, I assume we have access io funds to
Dacy: we can rook at that. Each department does have a certain amountof funds available for consulting fees.
-:hart: If we want to do something Iike that, spend some money onthat, does the City Council approve spending thal?
I_,"yr - Are you saying that they have to approve the spending of Ehemoney?
I :hart.: Yes, letrs say we want BRW to come back vrith a plan onar'Eerial landscaping study.
i,c!: If itrs a fairly major project, in excess of say SLq,q6g.6g ort--5,0Ag.gg I the Council would have to...
have all the maps of the City andhave to come out and survey or anything.
Dacy: l donrt know that we would look to them specifjcally. yes, theyl ve done a lot of Chanhassen projects but Markrs firrn has done thet*ai1 plan so I would think that he \^rouId be the logl ca1 cho j ce. He'salso a landscape architect. so the four goars are what the comnissionr nts to adopt?
Emmings: Do you th j.nk we ought have down as a goal that we keep alertfnr opportunities to reviewing the zoning ordinance or js that just..-
Gonrad: I think that goes without saying. I don,t think thatrs reallya goal. Thatrs our job.
Dacy: werve got a coule more th j ngs here. I^Iho do you r,rant to have ast:e representative at the HRA meeting? And the HRA is importantI tca.use if you want to talk about where the city haIIs aie going to bedlld how wide the roads are going to be.
Pl ann j. ng Cornmission Meeting
January 5, 1988 - Page 52
Erunings:
Conrad:
on i.t.
Erhart:
Dacy:
conrad:
Erhart:
Emmrngs:
them wi 1l
Dacy:
Conrad:
Ehat.
Dacy:
Maybe one of the
I think Jim would
new commi ss i oner s .
be a good member of the HRA. Letrs put him
How often do
once a month .
they meet?
Tim, tlo you want to do j.t?
I have a tough tjme meetj.ng up with this schedule. -
lle too. There are going to be two new members. maybe one of
be.
Do you rdant to PostPone this until next meeting
Letrs do that and I think Jim would be a good
Then the tast thing is, we put together a little calendar of all
ot you want to have thethe meeti ngs and the que st i on is, whether or n
second meeting in December changed or only schedule one?
Conrad: I think one.
then ?
potential for
AII voted in
II: l5 p.m..Enmj.ngs moved, Erhart seconded to adjourn the meeting.
favor and motion carried. The meeting was adjourned at
Submitted by Barbara DacY
city Planner
Prepared by Nann OPheim
3030 Harbor Lane North
Bldg. ll, Suite 104
Minneapolis. MN 55447-2175
61255$1950
UEM,II{DUI
ID: Planning Cqnmissim and staff
ilII,-ERCI{8 Mark Koegler
DAIE: January 7, 1988
S[BJ3 Transporta tion Section - Comprehensive Plan Update
Enclosed yan will finl information related to the Transportation Section of
the Compre hens ive PIan Update. the first portion of the information consists
of a series of Corridor Studies for T.H. 5, T.H. 101, T.H. 212 and U.S.
769/212. As you wi1L recall, this information has been specifically prepared
in response to requests frqn the Plaoning Cqnmission and City Council. The
seccnd port.ion or tle enclosed information which is titled "r'unctional-
Classi f ication', is replac-ernent text for the 1980 Comprehensive Plan. This
material replaces pages T-5 through T-11 in tlre 1980 P1an.
These revisions will be reviewed at Wednesday's meeting. Please ncEe any
cqrmEnts aod/or guestions tha t you might have cn these items.
CITY Of CHANHASSEN
RE
iili '5 i
CHNHASSEN PU}IilI}IG OEN.
.:
Arcib. CrCr-. trr-r
T.H. 5 (Arboretum Boulevard)_
Gorridor Study-
TOCATION AND LENGTH:
miles.
Eastern border to restern border. Approx ima tely 5.7
ttinor Arterial (1987 Chanhassen Ccmprehens ive
a,ERrGE DArLY rRAFErc'
i3;333 1t:3:J.3'(ffi!:'L*ffi & Associates,at Eastern Border
Inc. )
ll
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1r.,--r-
DESCRTPIONs T.H. 5 is currently Chanhassen's nejor east/wesE rcute servingboth local and. regional travei. ntsh-"y i 'is tne City,s nost significantroute sinc€ ir is rhe on]v ma]o5 arteriir fr.-ovioinq-con;;;i;;';;"""'eo cn"CiEy's cunnrerciar anr inaustriat "."r".
--si""-ir,"-.*t. bis;cl"- ah; ;veropedport ion of the cqnmmitv,- future Ia nd use una- eiun=po.tation decisions willhave a major impact. on'the city. ir.i-"aai ti",i"l background infornra t.ion, seeTransporta tion Sect ion Eext.)
PR.P.SED .AND us.: proposed rand uses along T.H. 5 are discussed in Brosegnents. segrEn E. A incrudes Ehe eastern harE-of ct. .orl" -niili-irls
rurL
H$;":Ht*s available. segrnenr e is rhe-L"t"* porrion which is presenrry
The eastern_ segment of T.H. 5 is approximately 60t develo@. E<isting uses1re la rogry industrial anr cqnnerciai' a"u"iop..'n t=. prann'J inal"iiJ;r .nacommerciar expansion areas rie aa iaceni -[o-e*rsiing-use=. -an-Jiipt"i"n
to
!hi,"_ i"..tF northrdesE quadrant of tte inteiJ"ti* of County Road 17 and T.g.: (Exhibir A). rhis irea-has ueen raueledl"'niqh d"*iry'.."i&niiJi'-o,. to
.LE. proximity to connercial. =.rui..=,-ra[.Gi p".x and adjacent arterials.Itledium densiEy residential is plannJ i;,,,"d;;.ly north of this site.
--
FUNCTIONAL CLASSIRICATTON :plan ) .
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Segrnent B, the H,estern portion of T.H. 5 is largely undeveloped. planned usesin Ehis area are shorm only as a statement of long term city policy. Thisarea rill not see development unt.il after the year 2o0o dG io thd lacr ofavailabiliEy of sanitary sewer. The Chanhassen Comprehensive plan, inaceordance wiEh MetropoliEan Councir policies advoca tes orderly growth,consistent with the provision of full urban services.
rn the Euture, sanitary sgvrer sewice to this area will be prwided by one oftrro sources. The Lake Ann rnterceptor, which was completed in l9gg, wilLprovide service to a small area alorq Ehe north side of T.H. 5 bet\reen lakeAnn Rrf ard Galpin Boule'ard. sewer connections in this area are presentlyprohibited due Eo the policies anl agreerEnts of the Metropol i Ean c&:nci I andMetropolitan waste control commission. providing sewe-r service to ttrerema-ining .area along T.H. 5 is dependent on the eventuar constnrction ofanother ra jor- interceptor line. conitruction of such a line is not prlsentlyplanned anl will not octur urtil well into the next century.
rong term lard uses arong T.H. 5 follow a theme of diversity. rn order toprovide a functimal and aesEhetic balance, various types of u-ses are planned.ftp north side of T.H. 5 between T.H. 4i and Lake-inn park is des'ilnatedprimarily for medium and__high de$ity residentiar uses. onrneiciJ -&rpies
tte northeast corner of r.H. al and t.tt. 5. on the south side ot t.i. s, amajor new industrial area is strcrm betneen T.H. 41 ard carpin eori"""J. thisarea.is c$-tiguors to industrial uses in the city of chasia. The remainingfrontage atong the souEh side of r.H. s is split, o. r*.* .on*i"i"i -ina niqhdensi ty resi&ntial uses.
Iand lying west. of r.H. 4r- currently cfitains either singre family residentialor. publ icrlsemi-publ ic land owned uy ttre university or-uinnesoia- Gna"."p"Arboretum. Elture changes in this irea are not anticipated
The CiEy of chanhassen expects to receive substantial devel0pment pressurealong the T.H. 5 corridor. untir such time as full urban services areaua l-lable,. the.City wil.l-not appro\re interim or permanent. uses which do not,
lonpry with existing zoning regurations. orrreni coae arrors onrv re-sialnuardevelopnent with on-ite systems at. a &nsity of 1 rnit-pei iO-"-"..=. ---
PROPOSED TRANSPORTATTON rnpRovE!,rENTS: since 1980, regionar ooriciespertaining to improvements arong the T.a. s .oi.ioor'-i"i. [h"ng.adramatica_lly. lritren chanhassen p."pui"d iEs l98o conprerrensive
'iian, i"qio,arrolicie,"^ discouraged improvenent- of T.H. 5 in favor or construction of new!.!. ?12.:_ Ar rhe present. limer however, T.H. J is Ueins-irpiovJ.--"uirSsO,T.H. 5 will exist. as a four.-lane diviaeO roaawiy frqn a point 30OO feet easEof chanhassen'!s east border to T.H. 494. ,l rssr le[iinq i"-
""n"0'u1-"a ro.replacemsnt of the c.M- st.p & p Ra ilroad bridge south of the chanhassen cBDand_ widening Highway 5 Eo four lanes €rqn wJst of csAH 17 rc tn" point loooEeeE easE of clranrussen I s -eastern border. Eurther improvements in westernChanhassen are not. planned at the presenJ ti;.- ''
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CITY OF
CHAAHASSEN I
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LOCATION At{D LENGTE: From the
northern Chanhassen border, south toU.S. 169 and U.S. 212. Approximately
5 miles.
FUNCTTONAL CLISSIFfCATfON: MinorArterial (1987 Chanhassen
Cqnprehens ive Plan )
AVERrcE DIILY TR.AT?IC:- 5000 (198{) uorrh of T.H.5- 11,000 - 15,000
(2005, Benshoof &
Associates, Inc. )
DBSCRIPTION: T. H. 101 is a major
north,/south route through the City ofChanhassen. North of T. H. 5, thecorridor is essenti a 1ly ful lydeveloped. south of T. H. 5, Eh;
crorridor is largely undeveloped withmost of the land abutting theright-of-way being used foragriculture or large lot resident,ial
uses.
T. H. 101 has functional importancE toboth the City and the region. Itserves as a major north/south routefor Chanhassen residents. Recently,it has assumed an expanded role ajaconnection between subregions. Itserves as a link between southwestmetropolitan area communities and
enterta inment orienEed developnrents in
Shakopee sucir as Canterbury Downs andValley Ea ir.
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T.H. 101 (Great Plains Boulevard)-
Corridor Study-
Euture planning for T. H. 101 ls ccmpl ica ted by the drrent classif iGtion of
Ehe road. In 1933, 101 cas classified as a "Tempora ry Trunk Higlnray. i Routes
carrying Ehis designation receive only ma intenance improvements and are not
allocaEed funding for capacity improvements. This sit,uaEion is further
complicated by the fact tha t. several gover nental entiE.ies including l,lnDcrf,
Ca rver County, Hennepin County, Eden Prairie anl Chanhassen have jurisdiction
over land included within or abutting the T. H. 101 crcrridor. A conprehens ive
improvetent of T. H. 101 witl not occur unEil this 45 year old classification
i ssue is finally resolved.
PROPOSED LIND USE: T.H. 101 has been broken into three segments for
discussiar purposes. SegrEnt A includes T.H. 101, north of T.ll. 5, B includes
the portion of the roadmy frqn T.H. 5' south to the proposed new intersection
with T.H. 212 ard seErcnt C includes the portidt behreen proposd T.H. 212 and
existing T.H. 169 ard T.H. 212.
Segment A is alrrcst totally &veloped. Uses along the chanhassen side of the
corridor are entirely single family residential with the exception of an
apartment complex at. the south end of SegIEnt A. Minor residential infillrrill occlr in the future. (Exhibit A).
Exhibit B contains a proposed lanl use plan for the section of the T. H. 101
corridor extendirq frqn nevr T. H. 212 to T. H. 5. This plan responds to a
number of factors including existing zoning, existing lani uses, the need to
correcE existing roadway geometrics and planned highway improvements.
Implementatioo of the southern portion of Lhis plan is dependent on t.he
constmction of the T.tl. l01A.H. 212 interchange.
The T. H. 101 corridor land use plan identifies a mixture of uses throughout
the corridor. A commercial area is located sout,hwesE of the planned
inEersection of T. H. 101 and T. H. 212. this area which is contiguous to
Lfnan Boulevard c-ould appeal to both neigtbortnod ard higtHay oriented needs-
A;ticipaEed commercial uses incLr:& convenienoe groceries, a gas station and
similar uses.
From the proposed intersection to Ehe north side of take Susanr the corridor
is planned for residential uses. l'tedium density is called for in areas
abutting t.he right-ofiray. t'ledium density uses have a grcss density of 8 or
less tnits per acre.
North of Lake Susan to T. H. 5, planned designati.ons are consisEent with
existing lard uses ard existing zoning. The west si& of T. H- 101 is labeled
indust;ial as an event.ual extension of Ehe chanhassen lakes &rsiness Park.
The east side is predominantly residential with a small commercial area
betldeen Lake Drive Ebst, ard T. H. l0l.
Proposed land uses south of the planned interctnnge of T.H. 101 and T.a. 212
harre been sfErm as a staterEnU of long term city policy. Lng term is defined
as posE 2000 and may even be 2010 Lo 2020. SegnPnt C will not develop prior
to thaE tirE because of the Lack of urban services, prlncipally saniLary
sewer. The chanhassen Comprehensive PIan, in accrordance with Metropolitan
Council policies advoca les orderly gtro$rth, consistent with the provision of
full urban sewices.
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As segment c of T.H. lOl-develops long term, t.he corridor is expected tocrnsisE oE primarily singte family residential uses. (Exhibit i). Thispattern is expected to_evolve for two principal. reasons s pirst, existing
sca ttered la rge lot development has established a low density reiidentiarprecedent. a10ng Ehe corridor and second, other, more inteniive land use
ca tegories are nbre suitably loca ted in other parts oE the cqmmity.
At the intersection of T.H. 101 and T.H. 1G9 and r.H. 212, nredium densi tyresi&ntial ard cqmercial uses have been stpwn. These uses are responsive toexisting Eopoqrraptry on the vJest side and existing crqnnrercial u*s on'tt.-east.
PRoTED TRerGmRrArra{ nrpRot EuENrs: chanha ssen , s 1980 comprehens ive plan
and the Year 2005 tard Use anl Transportation Study coota ined recqnrnerda tionsfor T- E. 101. The recqnnendations conta inea wictrin this corridor study are
compa tible with ttre firdings of both prrevious reports.
T. H. 101 ls viened as having both locar ani regionar significance. At thepresent time, approxinntely one-third of the tr;ffic vorrires on r. n. iol ur.
lhrough trips on the regional roadway system. This indicates tha t. futureimprovement,s will need to involve local, regional and state ofaicials.Resolutidr of the jurisdictionar. issue can onry ue resorved if one agencytakes a lead position. rn order to help resofve this situatioo, ctunhassenhas designated T. H. 101 as a minor arteiial. Jurisdiction for T. H. r01south of T. H. 5 strculd be the responsibiliEy of Cawer County.
Segment A, north of T.H.. 5 needs geometric improvements to increase sightdistanc'e ard general public sa fety. since this segmeni int"."""i" liiuit.driveways and street.s in both chanhassen anr Eden prairie, improvemencs wilrneed to inrrolve a variety of public agencies. rsolated proUiem ".Li" t"u"been corrected by privite developeis, however, a ocnprehensive solut.ion isnecessary.
3:-,t1:_l1l lIoT lyTun BoutevarC ro r. H. 5 shoutd be Eoralty realisned.KearrgnnEnE rs necessary to remove Ehe horizontal and verticil curvatureprobrems of the existing roadway. since the realignment invorves totarreconstmctim, chanhassen w l ha re an opport.uni Ey to-cr..ie an-"iiiactiu.approach to the community and part.icuhhy, trre dorntorn area. in o-io.. toacfiieve functional ard aesihetic ]esiqr qoars, it i" .""or.enaeo tirat r. g.101 be const.ructed as a bouleva rd/pa rtcwa y
' roaamy \rith a r"nas"-p"a n.aiunarea - Tte realignnenE of T. H. 101 ia stnwn- conceptually on eir,iuil-el
segment C of T.H. 101 will require substantial future improvements.rmproverEnts are likely to incrude realignment of several area! and a newrairroad bridge cros3ing. such impr&em6rii" n-".a to be crcordina ted wirh theStaEe ard Can€r Comty.
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IOCAIION AND LENGIII: Frqn Chanhassenrs easEerl border (Eden Prairie) to the
western border (Chaska). Approximately 2.7 miles.
FUNCTIONAL CLASSfFICATION: Minor Arteria I
Plan ) .
( 1987 Chanhasseo Conprehens ive
A\TERAGE DAILY TRAFEIC: 20,000 (1984) Easr of T.H. 101
19,600 - 35,400 (2005) Depending upon Construct ion of
l{ec T.H. 212.
DEScRrPflot'I: u.s. 159lu.s. 212 is a cod)ined roadway Eraversilg the extrerne
souEhern section of Chanhassen. The two lane, undiviaed highway carriessubstantial trafEic since it is a segmenE of a route connecting- $resternl,linnesota Eo the I\{in Cities.
mOTSED LAND USE: Southern Chanhassen is not served by sanitary sgvrer.consequently, no ns,r urban scaLe developflEnE has occurred in recent yelrs. Aseries of "grand fa thered' businesses exists east of the intersecti& oE u.S.169/212 ard U.S. I69A.H. l0l. Of Ehese uses, some are conEorming Eo thebusiness fringe (BE) zone while others are non-conEorming
The lard use elerEnE of Ehe 1987 Ccmprehensive pLan acknonledges the existenceof the cqforming uses, horrever, land use policies discourage their expansion.tibn-cgnforming uses by ordinance are protribited from enlar-ging or eiteadingtheir opera t.ions.
U.S. 1691212 (Flying Gloud Drive)-
Gorridor Study
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Proposed lard uses along the U.S. 159 & U.S. 212 Corridor have been identified
as a sta tement of lorlg term city policy. In this case, long term is definedas being post 2000, possibLy 2020 or beyond. the City of Ctanhassen does notplan to expard the business fringe (BF) zone, hence, development will not
occur prior to the avaiLability of sanitary se+rer service. tonq term land
uses follow a theme of diversity ln order to ensure a future balance of
f tnction arrl aesthetics.
When urban services become available, the north side of t.he U.S. L69/212
corridor is expected b develcp as mediun &nsi ty ard high &nsi ty res identialnith the excepEion of the existing commercial area. Prcperty on the south
side of 169 /212 is within land designated as part of the Minnesota Valley
National wildlife Refuge. One small exlstirg area of cqnnercial (business
fringe ) exists at the chaska border.
PROPOSBD TRANSPORTATION IIIIPROVEIiENTS: Currently, there are no major
transportatidl improvements planned for existing 159/2L2. Topography andfloodplain areas in eastern Chanhassen and rrestern Eden Prairie preclude
significant future expansicr. Ite pendirg improvenent nret affecting existing
U.S. 159/212 is the planned construction of neu T.H. 212. !,ltren lhe nefl rorteis built, it will substantially eliminate increased traffic alorg the existirgroute. Existing 769/212 is not adequate to hanlLe existing traffic flchrs.
fmprovements will be needed to reduce accident rates and enhance public
safety.
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T.H. 212 (Proposed)
FUT(TTONTL CIASSIFTCATTON:
Plan.
Major Arterial (1987 Chanhassen Comprehensive
ArrEmcA DAILY IRAFEIC: 31,000 - 41,000 (2005) East of T.H. 101
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ITCATION AND IX!{GIII: Proposed corridor runs frcrn the intersection of PioneerTrail and Audubon Road in Cha ska northeast Eo a point. on Chanhassen's eastern
border, south of Rice tilarsh Lake. Approxima Ce CisEance: 3 miles.
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DESCRIPTION,/PROPOSED TRANSPORTASTON IITPROTEUENIS: T.H. 212 has been in tfleplannirE sEages for over 20 years. At the present tirne, cities along thecorridor are coopera ting in designating the alignrcnt through the official
mappirE process. !,lork ls also about to begin dl a new EIS for etle project.
T.n. 212 is planned as a four-lane divided freeray running fran tilrrnood toT.H. 494. By the year 2000 the corridor is forecast to have 27,500
houselrclds, a population of 7I,370 and employnent of 521300. As these nurbersindicate, T.H. 212 is important Eo both the City of Chanhassen and the
southrestern portioo of the Thin Cit.ies.
Plans for the Chanhassen segment call for 2-3 interchanges. fnitlally,int.erchanges are planned at T.H. 101 and at CSAH 17. Longterm. an
intersection at extended T.tl. 41 may be built.
Chanhassen has been act,ively supporting the cforEtruction of T.H. 212 since thelate 1970's. the City will continrre to work tdith adjaGEnt mmicipalities andstate ard federal agencies Eorard implenrentation of this project.
PROmED ItrND tlsE: the T.H. 212 a lignunent passes through both ChanhassenrsGeneral Rurar use Area and Metropolitan urban sewic€ Area (lrusA). within the
t'l[.EA area, lard developnent will occur pr ior to 2000. wi thin the unseweredarea, future develogrEnt will be loog term.
T.H. 212 wiJ.l pass tlrro:gh the MUSA area norEh of Lymann Boulevard. planned
uses in Ehis area are responsive to existing la nl uses, exiscing roads ard theplanned intersectiqr loca tion. Exhibit A depicts planned uses in the t'tusAarea. conmercial, medium density residential ard high density residential areslown adjacent to the inEerchange.
rn t.he General Rural use Area, planned land uses are stprrn as a statement oElorlg Eerm policy. tong tern is defined as post 2000, possibly even 2OlO to
20?9-. - Land uses along Che unsewered portion of T.tr. 2I2 will not deveLopuntil ful1 urban services becone avairable. Metropolitan council policieiadvocate orderly growth. consistent lrith those policies, the clianhassen
ccmprehens i ve Plan links trban developnent with the provision of fulL urbansewices.
Long Eerm land uses in the General Rural use Area consist of a mix ofresidenEial densiEies. As indicated on Exhibit B, higher densities occuradjacent to the T.H. 212 corridor and at intersectioo points.
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FUI.lCtIqrlAL CTASS I EICATIOT{
Functional classification involves the definition of roadways by function,prior to identifying design characEeristics such as pavement widths, speedlimits and access controls. It is a valuable tool in ccnprehensive planning
because it ensures Ehat land use decisions are considered in the
transporta tion planning process.
The t{etropoli Ean Counci 1 uses €unctional classification to define tfpse routes
thaE are Frt of the rE tropol i tan roadway system. They also use it to relat.e
transit service to roadways. E'unctional classificatlon is important to
Chanhas*n for planning purposes and because it relates to jurisdictional
classification which is subsequently discussed in this plan.
TtE functiooal. classification system breaks roadr*ays down into a hierarchy offive categories. As the least intensive cLassification, local streets pro\ride
acc€ss to property and as such, are intended to serve limited geographicareas. Collector streets connect neighborhoods within ard between subregions
ard prorri& nobility betlreen residential ne i glrbortnods ard other lard uses.
Three classifications of arterial road{ays exist. In a general sense, these
roadways carry higher volumes of traffic at greater speeds with fewerinterruptions. Roads with an arterial designat.ion frequently are used for
intra-tate travel as well as for [Dr€ regimally or sub-regionally oriented
ccrnmuter trips.
Exhibit I depicEs the Metropolitan Council's Eunctional Cl,assification System
Criteria for Roadways.
In addiEion to Metropoli tan council Criteria, chanhassenrs Conprehens ive Planalo analyzed the foUowing factors in defining functional classif ica t.ion:
1. Current functlonal and jurisdict.ional plans and policies of the
City, Ca rver County, ard MnDOf.
2. Foreca sted average daily traffic volumes on the roadway sysEem.
3. Function of the roadlrays in meeting reqional needs versus local
needs; for example, how much Eraffic on a particular roadway islocal trafEic versus traffic bhrough the city of chanhassen.
4. tleeds anl abilit.ies for funding capital ard opera t.ing ex[Enses.
Exhibit 1
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FUNCTIONAL CLASSIFICATION SYSTEM CRITERIA FOR FOAOWAYS
lnl.'m.<rLt.lrl.rLl Ulnor Artarial Collacto.Local
Accessrb'lty Focus
Syslem Access
urbetr and Fur.l
Se.v,cc &oas and lo
drapr outstdc cnrls
To olt€r p.ncrpd r.
ler'a|3. nlermedlale
arlerCs. rld s€tect.
edmno.an.r6ls no
d'recl lad access
Conn€cls all urban Com€cb lwo or mora Connecls adFcent
subregD.ls *'lh ona 3ub.egons. D.ovrdes 3ub.agonsad
a^olha.. connect3 seco.l(fy co.nect'ons act'v'ty c!.rtrr3rrba,ldn ar 3ervrcc odstate: cohderncnls wthn slt cgion3
areasslh Mcl.o 9.,nry '.te'lals n
Centers connecl'on hlh volrne condo.3
lo oulstale c €s
Connecls naghbor'
hoods sthri ind be-
o5.20 o 25.r o
On edges ol On edg€s or
Cohn.cts blockS
hoods rld soac C
bcJ 3traals. land
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To collector3. olhcr
bcal slr€al3,l,d
acces3
colLclor tnd drslri
Dullo r tutcl'oo lor the
arlerieB ly3lerr at low
sp€€ds: bcal trangt
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colleCllonand
drsiribu|on:3hon
sp€cds
f,ro{des hiJh bvGl
ol mob{rt * hn 3nd
bel*e€n sub.egons
Provdes rnobrlrty
ne'ghborhoods and ne,ghborhoodS and
oth€t homooarr€ous
land us€ ereas.
TrE, Mar'ng Lonq hps ai hqhest
Scruce Perlorhed so€ed *'thn and
lhrouqh lhe Melro
A.ea Er9.ess lra.srl
lnps
Spac'ng
To Irncpet d.ler'als. To D.i6cior ri"rlars.
olheTalermeahaie hle.mld'.tertefiars
alerCs. mho. arlcrlals. oth€r drro. rerials,
Jrd h|qfi vollne ..d collactors_
colecto.s: ao (kact rcst Etcd d.€cll-d -cess l.nd *cass
ercerl mqo. tatla
ganeralors
Mcd(mdlslancc io Madun-lo-shon kDs
tong lrps al h6hcr al ho<reratelo-lo*e.
speed *alh,n tlre aDard6: bcC tran3t
urbri area €4,re3s trD!.
r.3 mies drp.ndnC
on spacng ol !l'!ncr
Dd rte.'ais drcl,nrlor
arle.lals. nanlrl,lrD
dens|iy. and bceton
ol erlstng lac{ ,cs
ln nstural commun iy
s€pratonsdelnng
develophenls anc, nol
Rrral
dtr€cl land access
Acca3a to
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Fa rrlcd !!
Contnuly. nu.nber ol
bna3. lrallic srgnal
thng.lar1dacce3s
1 block3{ mi6.l.Pcn6ng
on lr'p d..s'ly. l.ans|l
mno. a.lerC soaclngt local6^ ol a rrsl'ng
lac d.€3
ln nalrrel commurlrly
seP*allons C,elln'ng
developh€nl a.d nol
Freesldtd'ng Growlh
Unncd dract
COnrfiercld
bo.hoods and
D.ecl
D,ecl land
Characlerrstcs
System M eaga
Grad€ scpealed
lu.ban) o, h'gh
qade separaled or
Irotleoat'Orade
Tr. lc s,g.
nals anc,
cro3s slreel
slopS
Lrgc irucks
Rastrctcd
Reslrctcd es
Tr.ll'c i]gnd
39acm9. 9.€lcrental
Siopngn3.
tvMr)
Suqgesi€d iec,..a/ ln'lanons,or pr croal
arter'als and nle.medralc lrlafials conbt.cd
40.55 Der clnt
VrhGL3 crnedUrb$ 2O.OOO-lOO.OOOnurt 5.OOO-5O.OOO
r0.0oo.50.000
2.500-25.OOO
Rrmpinaen.g. fump m€tcrng. tralltcraflcs{ndtlnng. 3End l'6m9 stag'ng
no landacces5, ol raconslructon. land
prere.cnl|al lraalmanl acccslr spacng
ntcrchan9e soacn9
Suggesl.d led,rrJ uOp.r knns lo. p.iicDC
rler'ds lld lrrrcrmtdlal€ arterEls comuned
UrDer lOpcrcenl
Rural a ,Er cant
S{gestad rederd
65-8O!r. R(,d63-75,.
grgga3tcd l.da6tln .noh3 ro.3ota
r.ooo
r.000
Suqg.3led hderd Suqgcalcd ted€ral\ftn.tDrsl- lm'tat|on3 urba^
,ncD, ,le.'ais. 5.t O\. Ru..{ 20,35.{
.lc.nred'elc rlerlals
r5.25\.R d6 l21
Suggaslcdtederal SJggesladh'tanons
tmrtailons lo. 5.1O..
,icrmad'5le ,tca6l3
cor.D.od 65 6ort
5,OOO-30.OOO !,OOO'!5.00()r.ooo-to.ooo 250-2.500
Poil.d UrO, ,a5-55
lpccdimir iuC L.gC lirilBghlol.w.y 3OO'tr'l3l Pro.ny b lrghAccodrno(blioo! (rccr.orcyvlh'cla3
,d lrJrd n 9aal
9CrO(B
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L.gd lm't
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hatGrcntiC lta.tmanl
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LGgd lin,
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30.ao
35.a5
66 !m'
(l.igncd ld
usc by rcAd,
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as rag|onJ b(B ,qra!
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Exhibit 2 presents the recqnmended fmctional classification systern. !ftiIe a
few minor inconsistencies between designations of roadways as eit.her
collectors or minor arterials occur between City and County plans, this
reccnmended system is qenerally crcnsistent with current Ca rver Coulty and City
plans rdith one najor exc€pt,ion - T.H. 101. T.H. 101 is cr:rrently designa ted a
minor arterial by the City of Eden Prairie and a local roadrray by Carver
Comty.
Based upon the analysis of the Metropolitan Cornci I criteria, the projected
volumes, ard ttre furctions T.H. 101 performs, it ls reccmnErded that T.lr. 101
be &signrated a minor arterial. Ttre principal reasonsi for Ehis recffienla t lon
are:
1. The projected year 2005 daily volumes are ae the upper limit, or
exceed the recommended guldelines for volumes carried by acollector. This limit is 15r000 daily vehiclesi the forecasts on
T.H. 101 north of T.H. 5 indlcate daily volumes up to 20,000
vehicles.
The roadway performs an important regional function connecting sub
regions in the area. This is evidenced by the forecasts which
indicate approximately 40-45t of the daily vehicles are traffic
passing througtr the study area.
T.lr. 101 is recommended to have access to T.tl. 2!2, a ma)orarterial. The uetropolitan Council generally recommends thaE
interchanges occur at. minor arterials, not clllectors.
The CiEy has historically limited direct access to T.H. 101 and will
continue to do so. Through the City of Chanhassen, T.It. 101
intersections are general ly controlled by either traffic signals or
stop controls on the cro6s streets.
The following is a brief reviel, of sorne of the major routes that are part of
Chanhassen's roadnay stEtem:
INIB!,IEDIATE ARTERIATS
2
3
4
Hiqft,a y7
Highway 7 serves as one of Chanhassen's nejor links Eo the Metropolitan area.
The roadnay carries subsEantial vehicular traffic with movement. generally
uninhibiEed by signals or major sLreet. crossings within Chantussen's limits.
To the east., tDwever, Higtnray 7 passes t.trdlgh t'! inne tonka ard northern Hopkins
where significanE congestion occurs during peak hours due to frequent
slgnalized intersections and commercial development. Recently, a
comprehensive plan for the upgrading of T.H. 7 was prepared. To date,
implerneneaEion efforts ha ve been hampered by disagreements between various
communities atong the corridor. In Ctranhassen, the plan calls for turn lanes
ard minor local street. cleures.
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Functional Classifica ro
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IlsE ITP
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-
Minor Arterial
..... Collector
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T.H. 212
T.H. 212 is a planned intermediate arEerial which is proposed to run
diagonally through the southern port.ion of Chanhassen. The route which runs
from Norwood Eo T.H. 494 will be a four lane divided faciliEy with csttrolled
access. Plans call for two interchanges in Chanhassen, one at T.H. 101 and
the other at. CSAII 17. At the present tir€, c--snrmrn i t. ies alorg the corridor are
beginning official mappirg preeedings ard an environrnental impact statementis being prepared.
llIIDR ARTERLAIS
Hiqhray 41 - Hazeltine Boulevard
fhe $estern portion of Chanhassen is bisected by Hiqtrray 41. T?ris rqrte is an
important link between Higtnray 212 alorg the lfinnesota River an tlighway 7 tothe north. Highray 41 passes throrgh the tnser.vrered port.ion of Ehe city rdherelittle developrEnt Fesently exists ard rrc sigrnificant further development is
anticipated until after 1990. There are no signiflcant safety or c€ngestion
problems along the existing road,ray.
Higttray 169-2L2 - F1ying Cloud Drive
For discussion purposes, High\rays 169 ant 272 have been grouped together since
they form one continuous roadway. T.lt. 159-212 is a two lane undivided
highway trit.h no access conErol on the segflEnt wiEhin Chanhassen. T?ris road
carries substanEial "farm to markeEn truck traffic originating in western
Minnesota anl bound for descinations throughout the rnetropoli Ean area.
CSAH 17 - Po{ers Boulevard
T.H. l0l was discussed previously in this section. Since it will not be
feasible in Ehe future to extend CSM 17, T.H. 101 remains as the CiLyrs only
reasonable allernative Eo rnaintain ooe full north/south arterial.
CSAII 14 - Pioneer Trail
Pioneer Trail serves as a minor arterial c\conect ing chaska to existing 169 in
Eden Prairie. Minor Arterial staEus is consistent with designations in
adjacent rrun icipali t.ies.
Powers Boulevard has been designated as a minor arterial. CSAH 17 connects
norEhern Oanhassen ard Rxcels ior to T.H. 5 and eventually to nei, T.H. 212.
Extreme topography and existing developrent precludes Ehe Eurther southerly
extens ion of this route south of Cortrlty Road 14.
T.H. l0l - creat Plains Boulevard
T.lr. 5 - Arboretum Bo:levard
ltlOtrraV 5 is the nost imporEant roaduay in Chanhassen. It sewes as the nEjorlink to the rEtropolitan area and because of its Location adjacent to ihe
popula tion center, it provides access to a large nutber of people cfitmut.ing to
employnent in other ciEies. Because of this, Higtnray 5 carriei large volumesof traffic arrl at peak hours, is frequently c!,ongested ard ineffective.
within Chanhassen, the flol, o€ traffic along Highway 5 is relativelyundisturbed. The roadrda y which consists of tt o lanes with the exception ofthe four lane port idt at the intersectioo with Higtnray 41, is interrupted bytraffic signals at 41, CSAII 17, 101, and Dakota Avenue. There are nosignificant cqmrprcial or residential uses accessing directly onto Highway 5.
To the east in Eden Prairie, however, this situation is sonregtu t different.
Eastbold trafflc on T.H. 5 typically connects rrith either 494 or HennepinCounty 62. EYqlt the chanhassen border to 494, Iligtnray 5 conta ins signals lndseveral direct accesses by commerciaL and industrial Iand uses. Thissituat.ion, combined with higher tratfic volumes in Eden prairle, causessigrnificant traffic delays drrring peak hours.
In 19€7, Unff began a series of improrerents ehich will significantly enhanc.ethe function of Highway 5. The first stage improvements call for theconstruction of four lanes frcrn warlace Road to prairie center Drive in EdenPrairie. Tte second phase calls for construction of a four lane divided
roadway from west of CSAII 4 to tdallace Road. T?re final phase of the projectwhich should be completed by 1993 calls for constructlon of a fotir I'aneroadmy fron rrest of CSAH L7 in Chanhassen to rrest of CSAH 4 in Eden prairie.
OT,LECIDRS
collector street.s serve as connecEions between neighborhoods anl provideaccess to minor arterials, other collectors, and loca1 streets. Wittrin
Chanhassen, Bluff Creek Drive, tlinnewashta parkuay, 101, West Tgth Street,
Lyma-n Bolleuard, Comty Road 117, take txcy Road, Lake Drive East., frontageroads in eastern chanhassen, and Kerber Borlevard are categorized as collect6rstreets. Eac+r of these road\rays contains two traveled lanes and have sornedirect land access. These routes, as well as addit.ional ones designated inthe future, are likely to carry higher traffic volumes as urban dev-elopmentcont.inues.
EHANH[SSEI[
MEMORANDUM
TO:
FROM:
DATE :
SUBJ :
690 COULTER DBIVE. P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
- -i[
Don Ashworth, City Manager
Barbara Dacy, City Planner
January 7, 1988
tight Rail Trans it
Council members may have seen the numerous amount of articlesregarding Hennepin County's Light Rail Transit planning process.Council members may also wonder why Chanhassen rrras not directlyinvolved in the study process r./hen one of the routes passesthrough southern Chanhassen. This is to summarize the history,process, and status of Ehis project to date. Attached arevarious articles and information sheets regarding LRT. It may beuseful to retain these documents for future reference.
H I STORY
Hennepin County received authorization frorfl the StaLe Legislatureto prepare a Comprehensive LRT System Plan for Hennepin County in1987. The County, primarily under the leadership of Commissioner
John Delus, previously established a corunitment to iraplementlight rail transit in the County in 1980. That cornmi tment wassoLidified by establishment of the County Board as the Hennepin
County Regional Railroad Authority and by the acguisition of therailroad right-of-hray from downtown Minneapolis to Victoria.
The County strongly believes in LRT as another viable mode oftransit, supplementing existing bus service. LRT is a recon-
mendeC rnode of transit by the Metropolitan Council versus auto-
mated guideriays (people movers), or heavy rail transit.
Where should LRT be constructed?
How much i4ri11 construction and operation of LRT cost?
How rdiI1 the cost of LRT construction and the cost of LRT
operation be paid?
liho should operate the LRT system?
CITY OF
_-_-:.. ---...'':-4. ...i,
t 'tt -s[
With the 1987 legislative mandate to do comprehensive planniogfor LRT in Hennepin County, the CounEy established a citizen par-ticipation process to begin the plan process. The followingquestions were used to guide decision making:
Mr. Don
January
Page 2
Ashr,vorth
7, 1988
PROCESS
Eight advisory committeesquestions: five corridorsory commiE.tee, a land use
c ommi. ttee .
were established to ansvrer the aboveadvisory comrnittees, a technical advi-committee, and a i ntergover nmen ta I
The southwest corridor Advisory committee was responsible foranalyzing-route alignments from Minneapolis west.- trre iegislatureauthorized Hennepin county- to do comprehensive pra"ning -wi itrinthe County limits on1y. Although a lortion ot bnannasien iswithin the County, the City was not. iormally notified to paitic_pate on the corridor advisory committee. upon aski-ng ttenirepincounty staff about this, it $ras admitted that the raik of a'for-ma1 inviLation was an oversight. ( rronicalry, chaska was invitedand appointed representa Lives , but no one attended the meetings. )
The process can be summarzied as follows:
I Corridor Advisory Committees are t.o conpletemake recomrrendat ions in February, I9gg.
The Finance Advisory Conmittee will evaluacenue sources and provide recorunendations as toshould be f ur:ded.
their study and
potentia] reve-
how Lhe system
2
3
4
5
The Intergovernmen ta1 Advisory Committee will review theCorridor Cornmittee recommenda t.ions and make sysrem planrecommendations to the Hennepin County Board.
The . Metropoli tan Council wiIl submit a ,'process plan,, to thelegislature providing recommendations as to coor&inatintHennepin CounEy's f,RT-planniog with Ramsey County and ail othercounties in January, 1988.
the Hennepin county Board wilr consid.er the comprehensive planfor LRT in March, 1988, including decisions as to how thesystem is to be funded, operated and maintained. first lhaseconstruction plans may also be considered.
STATUS
.r -artended the public hearing conducted by the southh/est corridorAdvisory Committee on December L4, ]- gg7. The Southr4rest CorridorAdvisory conmittee evaruated t.wo roure arignments i ".u
-atti.r.,,n"n ttt2). The committee recommended the north ;rign...r. io u.-i^pr"-mented but also recornmended thaE the south alignment be conlsidered_as soon.as possible at least up to the Baker Road,/I_ 94area. ?he conmittee also reviewed stalion locations and recom_mended elimination of 4-7 and 9. stations rG-20 were recornmendedto be evaluated in the comprehensive plan inventory.
Mr. Don
January
Page 3
As hwor th
7, 1988
2
3
4
5
The primary reasons for their recommendation were as follows:
1 Ridership potential was greater al-ong the north alignment atthis point in time. Hosrever, as Chanhassen and Eden prairie
continue to grow, the committee felt that the south alignmentshould be implemented as soon as possible. In fact, they
recommended construction of the south alignment to Baker
Road,/I-494 along hrith the north alignment.
TH HCRRA currentlynorth alignment.
owns t.he railroad right-of-way for the
The north alignment, with Excel-sior as a major "stop", willprovide a means for "recreational" trips to Big Lake analother attractions. Excel-sior is also considering a 155 roomhotel and recreational facility at the o1d Mai Tai site.
The north alignment travels through downtown Hopkins andruould help its redevelopment efforts.
The north alignment is close tc rfla jor population centers andbus service could be revise<l to supplement LRT in the area.
Although unrepresented in the process, committee members likeMike Krause suppJ ied the committee with Chanhassen information.(Beverly Mil1er from the Sw Metro Transit Service was also on the
committee as an Eden Prairie representative. ) The north align-ment will serve Chanhassen the most as a majority of our popula-tion is north of TH 5. The south al-ignrnent travefs a1on.7 thebluff area on the southern edge of Hesse Farms. At this point,the southern alignment is seen as a .rrcommutinq" routse Erom Chaskato major centers in Eden Prairie, and eventually to downtown.
I SSUES
Confusing at. this point, however, is the process to coordinate
Hennepin County's efforts with oL.her county p1ans. Hopefully,the process plan rvhich the Metropolitan Council is to devise will
address that issue. Up to this time, concern has been raised
about the 1eve1 of input from Ehe regional planning agencies and
whether or not regional issues are being eval-ualed adequately.
Funding sources for start up costs and operation and maintenanceis another unresolved concern. The counties are currently
approachi;rg this issue by stating their commitment to assumeright-of-way acquisition costs and initial capital costs.
Ho\.rever, operation and maintenance may shift to the R?B or MTC.
Hennepin Count.y is currently developing a funding philosophy ofghree parts: property tax sources (County Board will assess .75mi1ls this year) i transportaLion fees (MVET, mol.or vehicleregistration feets, etc.); and user charges. Although labeled asa Hennepin County project, LRT will eventually affect all of us
Mr. Don
January
Page 4
As hwor th
7, 1988
in the region. Looming Larger
peLe for highway dollars which
improvements such as TH 212.
is the concern lhat LRT wiII com-
might jeopardize long scheduled
SUMMARY
There is no question that LRT is a positive step toward building
an effective and efficient transportation system given the risingthreat of pollution, the rising ccsE cf highway improvements, andthe decreasing leveJ- of accessibility in the region. Othermetropolitan areas in the nation have iniEiated similar systems.It appears that LRT can vrork in E.he Tsrin Cities, however, a
number of questions remain unanswered.
ATTAC HMENTS
1
2
3
4
5
5
7
. Hennepin County LRT, February, L987.
. SW Route Alignment Alternative.. LRT Year 2010 Patronage Forecast.
. Neerspaper article on December 14, L987, public heariog.. LRT Newsline dated December 18, J.987.
. Newspaper article on Met Council input.
. LRT brochure.
HENNEPIN COUNTY REGIONAL RAILROAD AUTHORITY
1. littat is Light Rail lrasit?
ins-ii u tiansit qaten using rodern electric rail cars povrered from an
overhead lrrire. LRT can operate 5n exclusive or shared rights--of-way' as well as
i;';;; ti.iiii"itr, ar;,ri tr," sane rush-hour capacity as an 8-Iane freewav.
2. Ilill Peqle IIse rm
Yes. LRT is clean, quiet ard convenient' Portland opened a new 15 mile
svsren in septefrer rgaol-'iiairfnln
-ftii-ii^o=t doubled Eire initial projections'
;i;;;;.-;t-c"""ai"" iitv g[ut-ni"-u'rirt n , LRr has experienced substantial
gains in ridershiP.
3. Ibesa't naif rraDsit tbrk (xly in 6ties witfr Ei$ -Polrilatidr Density?
LRT uorks weII wtrerevJ-*J"rlt"ty iirge nr.unbe rs -of people are. tlavelling
alonq a c@n corridor. ' -t."ifi" aeniity ia1-9ome not onJ'y f rom high density
;ilTr; ;;;; ffi -;I".'ny-l;"..tiitine' rraeeic usinq an -excelrent coordinated
transfer h,s service, "#';;i;:;;:iia"'ri'iiiti's' 'ien in thinrv popurated
areas. IrT works "*tt"r,;il#fi in-iiti". Iike Portland, san Diego' and others
less densely poprlated than the 'fi'rin cities'
{. wilt IE rqrrov€ rratsit Service?
Liqhr rail "ur= ,o.iilIr,-Ioiii-ieu*ility in all weather, at up to 55
,.".;:"';offii"iI^Uif-""1.V rJuced travel tiies in cotnfort. Feedqr bus
Lf,"lirr.I?Ti;;;;;f"rilti*a ro neer rrains at srarion srops and would also
;;;;i& extensive ne'r, cros-s-too'n and neighborhood services'
A-2307 Govemment Center, Minneapolis, MN. 55/87{237 dA34*4O77
EEINEPIN qI{lY IJGET BAIL 13AI{SIT
BOARO OF COMMISSIONEBS
John E. Derus Jett Soartz Mark Andrew Sam S. Sivanich
Secrelary
Randy Johnson John Keefe E. F Robb Jr
February 1987
5. will LIE Beplace hrses?No. LRT suppleEnts buses and highuays. A corplete network of bus routesriII feed riders into the Iar stations. rhis cornbined bus-light rair systen willilcrease bus ridership.
6- Srill IJc Solve rbst Trdrlsit I'rohlFi"<?
No, it flon,t. LRr is not a cure-al1, but it is capble of noving largemnbers of people in certain corridors. LRT contrihrtas to t}re reduition-ofautomobile co-ngestion and air -pollution. rt can help reduce Lhe need for freewayexpansion and lor revenue-producing parking facilitiis in business districts.
7. l+ty Csrsider IAf, rtsr?
_^_ -rylolment in the region is expected to increase about S0 percent by the year2919: At the sanre glna, population is expected to gron frorn 2'stillion fo 2.5-nillion residents. E\ren not, the region,i frearays-are congested in spite of
.increased pileage anl effort-s to nanige traffic fiow. Cons6guently, tbday, s rushhour. traffic i:'nc, parking shortages, -and accessibilitlz probiems a?e only- a tasteof Ehings to corc. rn fact, the iongestion revel on oir- freeways is expicted toaearry double to 125 niles of congesiion or nearry one-forrth of tle frl.*aysrysten hy lhe turn of the century. since any uajor transit inprovenent takisyears to pran ard build, re need to begin non to- deal rrith trairsit needs as weapproach the 21st century. LRT has proven to be a very cost-effective rneans ofrcving large ntrnbers of people with snalf rn:nbers of vihicles.
8. Yihere lfruld the rxtr Be Built hitialtv?
- . F" ll"ll"pil counqr Regional Railroad Ar.rthority proposes bnriJ.ding theson:thrcst corridor as a dernonstration project. rhis'coiridor is one-oi severarroutes designated by the
-
Metroporitan Louicil, s prauring studies as a viable LRTcorridor. c9r9fu.I planning wouLd ensure that this proj6ct is corpitiur- with allother potential LRr corridors identified bry the Couircil.
9. stt]Z Should rhe Santhrst Corridor Be Built pirst?
- The_right of wa.y for t}le Soutlt\,est Corridor ras acqui red \r the HennepinCounty RegionaL Railroad Authority- ( HGnA) under 1980 ligislative ."ti,til[y to
p- reserve the rail line as a possiEle corridor. rhe lletr5politan counc-ir nasidentlfied this route as part of the total LRi syster. tirls i.s ttre iouie ttratcould be planned and conslructed in the shortest- tiu. period. r[ ,"urJ i" tirecatalyst for tuoving forward w"ith the total regiona] syitem.
10. $trat WiIt Ixtr Co6t?
The Henneoin countv LRr proposar. vrilr cost approximatery gg nr.irrion per rnire.1.,Fild.,_ti: ::q.as to 3aO'rnitrion_per mi.te'tor consrrucrion of r_394. LRruru collprerEnt the bus systen which wirl be expanded to accomnodate incieasedridership.
f,l. Will LRf EIrt property Vatues?hfornation fron citiEs h,here Eodern LRT has been buirt in the last few yearsfurdicates that property vaLues Eend to increaJe-near the LRT lines.
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Hennepin County Comprehensive LRT System plan
SOUTHWEST SUBURBAN CORRIDOR
LRT YEAR 2O1O PATRONAGE FORECAST
lies t S uba I ternat i ve HCRRA Al i qnment 29th Street Al i qnment
North ( Victori a)
South ( Chaska )
Source: Metropol i tan Counci I , November 1987
l7 ,400
l7, 800
24, 800
25,200
IIENNEPIN COUNTY LIGHT RAIL TRANSIT STUDY
POPULATION AND EMPLOYMENT FORECASTS BY ALIGNMENT ALTERNATIVE
COMMUN ITY
North Al i gnment
Revi sed l2-14-Bl
POPULAT I ON EMPLOYMENT
N UN1980 2000 1987 2000 1980 2000 1987 2000
L
Deephaven
Greenwood
!Joodland
Shorewood
Excel s i or
Subtota'l
M'innetonka
Total
South Al i gnment
Eden Prairie
Chanhassen
Chaska
Subtotal
M i nnetonk a
Total
12 , 830
49,000 43,025
3,716
653
526
4, 646
2,523
3 ,400
660
520
5,500
?,750
300
100
50
550
3,000
5,000
3, 000
3 ,400t
660r
520*
5,500*
2,750
12,830
49 ,000
54 ,000
14, 750
10,800*
160
100
50
520
3,000
3 ,830
18,000
300*
l00r
50*
550r
3 ,00or
l2 , 064
38, 683
50,747 61 ,830 61 ,830 21,830 37,000
4 ,00033,000 25,356
49 ,00033,000 25,356
4 ,000
33,000
37 ,000
s9 , 314
33 ,000
92,314
16,263
6, 359
8,346
45 ,000
l0,000
10,800
32,250
8, 481
9 ,582
12 , 200
1 ,300
3, 600
38,000
4 ,500
6, 500
28,400
3 ,080
46, s64
6,250
6, 500*
30,968
38,683
65,800
49 ,000
79 ,550
49 ,000
50, 31 3
43,025
17,100
18,000
69,651 1l4,8oo 93,338 128,550 35,100 82,000'
* City is using Metropolitan Counci I forecasts.*r. City estimates its forecast to be h'igher than the Metropolitan Counc'i I
forecast, but has not provided another forecast.
I I
'*r,*
r.leighbors
St€v€ Br8rdt
:JffWriter
rn advisory commiltce to Henncpin: unty. recommendcd Monday tri8htl_t ratl translt through southwestern
;uburbs follow a northerlv roure ro
rxcelsior, despire signific:ht opoosi-. l lrom Minnetonka residcns.
lrrc proposed roule. which wouldxgin in downtown Minncaoolis and,--ve Hopkins, St. Louis park andi eral other suburbs. follows a for-r-r freighl line purchard several.cars ago by the county.
ght
list concerns at light-rai! hearinr
The advisory group arso recommend- car audience in Hopkins during a ..r want answers to rh".. .atherled that a separarc roure in a more lengthy rrearine raii;ii;i. It -,,iir'i'r"a .r.don,r knows' and .maybes...southerly diredion from Hookins r. tt i'i,rsr prurrc"rpi""iii.ii rjr'ii,? ,u,r sard ro apprause from much (a pornt near Baker Rd. and Intersrare rransir pioposar lhc, ,erirat-ronrt , .ro*a oi'ri".oi r,riilii'"pilipl
;;,1* rX'$r1,ll;lrtonka be builr "as orptanriinf ei'"nio*.' cor*,li,r'cfii..
rhe countv-ovmed nonherrv roure itri!iii!i,'*Tr;i",:lrli'",'flffi1 l"n"."*"*o "r*",.0 rrusrrared b.strelches from downtown Minneao.- and especiallv ,.sio.nii o?Mirneion- absencc of firm answers to suchS,1r.t#lilil:#Ifl.i1}il,?;T! r,a, r,.i,.a
"i,i ii-ioi.;'. - '-""-"
gir_10_gyg119n1as wherher yards
chicago and Nont*iii.i-"lr'ir.olj Srephen Beatry of Minneronka. J-".'JJXlitt.'r"',JeH:l1 h*i.is€eks ro abandon' rs between Horr whose yard boili^;.;;;iii;;;osr mrghr reach spe€ds of 55 mireskins and Chaska. ,r i*"' p-poi.t';iiil;;;'r:";;"_ hour. The advisory commirree l:
rhe group made its decisions ,o* ,o,liorri*$"1';"l3gli'",f*l[aaa uotea 6;.k .;;1y;rr;i'.i''*,,
unveiling its work to a largely skepti- Light reil conrinued on page 28
LI
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solve such issues.
Ben Aune of Minnetonka helped ro
spark opposition by alening porenrial
neighborc along the nonhem roule of
lhc possible approach of rail ransir
and collecting their signatues on pe-
rtrons opposllg such a rcurc. Hc
said he had colleded aboul 100 sie-
natures b€forc thc hering and anotf,-
cr 75 to 100 last nighl
Aunq who lives within sight of thc
nonhem albmative route, said he
suppons rail transiL But he ci&d
population and employmenl num-
bers prrs€nted last night ro support
the southern route.
Metropolitan Council figures ore,
'.nrea'
at oi iio'i nl liia,'Ji" ii,piii-uon and employment arc ahead!
higher along rhe southern routes and
lhat rhe gap is expecled to widen bv
the year 2000. Bul rhe council's ridei-
ship forecasts indicate no sirnificanr
differcnce between either alrc-marive.
Dave Warner ofBRW Inc., the coun-
ty's rail consullanl said ridership es-
timaks reflect cuErnt traDsit rider-
ship along the two routes, while pop-
ulation and employment figures indi-
cate pokntial ridership.
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1/E W s L I ..4/E
a Corridor Advi sory Committee
Update
Advisory comfilttees for the l{orthwest, Southrest,
south and Hlayatha Corrldors, the Unlverslty of
l'1i nnesota connectlon and oowntown Minneapolls are at
different stages ln thelr dellberations. lndividual
comnittee declslons to date are summarized belor.
Hlawatha Corrl dor
The Hlawatha Avenue Corridor Advisory Comnittee, at
its Decembsr 3 meeting, declded to recommend to the
HCRRA that IRT be constructed along Hiaratha Avenue,
through the alrport, and into Bloomington, yith
stops as shown (see map). The Committee recommended
that park and rlde lots be provided at or south of
the Crosstown Highl{ay, and that the area north of
the Crosstown be provided with feeder bus service.
The Conmitt€€ recommended that, in conslderatlon of
potentlal patronage in the corrldor, the development
potential of the corrldor be recognized.
Unl verslty Connectlon
The Unlverslty Corridor Advisory Committee at its
oecerber 14th meeting developed a draft recoflnen-
datlon that llght rall translt for the tlnlverslty
connectlon be located ln the t{ashington Avenue
allgnment and extend to oak Street. The Commlttee
prefers a subway alternatlve that would maintaln the
exlsting trafflc capacity of tiashington Avenue. It
recommended that an at-grade allgnment on Hashlngton
Avenue be contlngent on the construction of a
Universlty of Mlnnesota by-pass route that ni
re'lieve trafflc on 4th Street and Uniyersity Avenue,
and provlde an alternate route for downtonn-bound
trafflc diverted fro[ t{ashlngton Avenue. Stations
are recommended at the Uniyerslty of l,tinnesota East
Bank, l{est Eank and at oak Street.
After screenlng lnitial allgnments for ,,fatal flayrs,,
Hhich Hould prohlblt lrplementation, three alter-
natlves have been lden f.led for more colprehensive
anal ysl s:
o Bur'l I ngton Northern Rallroado Broadray to Frenont/Emersono Soo Llne Rallroad/Brooklyn Boulevard
Hennepin County Regional Raihoad Authority lssue 7 12.18.87
Evaluation crlterla yere establlshed in early
oecember, and will be applied to the above alter-
natives at the next meetlng.
Following lnput received at the oecerber 14 public
Forum, the Southlest suburban Comittee voted to
recommend the north alig nent Hest of Hopklns frofi
Minneapolls to Excelslor as the preferred al lgrment.
As part of lts recomendation, the Comittee voted
to lnclude the south alignment at least as far as
I-494 at the earliest opportunity. From Mlnneapolis
to Hopkins, the alignn:ent will folloH the Chicago &
Northwestern (CNl.l) right-of-way.
The Committee's recommendat.i ons on poten al station
locations include seven sites between Hopkins and
Minneapolis, seven additional sites along the north
allgnment between Hopkins and Excels.ior", and a site
ln the vlclnlty of Baker Road/t-494 along the south
al lgnment.
\
tstn Atcnu€
2rlth Strccl
i Lc!6nd
.t:- rl--r.-
gsth St..ot
3ath Skeet
42hd Sk€st
46rh SEe.t
Strect
s jxl strert
Humphrcyr._snad
No.thrart Ailrt
COC.,AppFrree
Ha'{rq Csndor Qo.rrrd Advisdy
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SOtl Streel -
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Northwest Corrl dor
),
7T\ Southwest Corrldor - Suburban Section
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FtrRRA
comorehensrye
LPJ S\slem Plitn
LINE Hennepin County Regional Raikoad Authority
Four sltes further south through Eden pralr.le are
recommended to be lncluded in the LRT System p.lan
pendlng further study.
Southwest Corrldor - l.{I nneap olis Section
Flve alternatlve allgnments have been retalned forfurther study:
o CNli rlght-of-ray through Kenwood and Cedar/Isleso Soo Llne rlght-of-Hay para.t.te,llng 29th
Street/Nl col let Avenuoo Soo Llne rlght-of-way/Fj rst Avenue_Bl a i sdel I one_
wa)' pal r
o Soo Llne r I g ht-of-way/park_po rt.l and one-way pa.lro I-351.'
The Soo Llne (29th Street ) /Hennepi n Avenue alionment
has been dropped because of street operations
ihpacts and the Lowry HilI tunnel bot eneck.
The Committee ls current'ly examining land use and
development lssues along the remalnlng alternative
al I gnments.
This commlttee,s xork y{as initially postponed untilthe Minnesota oepartment of Transportation deter-
nined whether LRT would be studied as part of the
I-351.1 environmental and preliminary design study
already underway. The HCRRA decided to reactivate
the South Corridor LRT study in early December, topermit analysls of all LRT corridors Hithin the con_text of the re.olonal LRT system plan. At its
meeting on December 9, the Committee reviewed the
work program and ldentified a range of alternatives
for the lnltlal "fatal flaw,,screening.
The Downtown Comlttee has selected l.tarquette and
Second Avenue running at-grade as the preferred
north/south LRT allgnment through dotintown.
Flve east/nest alternatives are s under con-
slderatlon:
o sth Street/6th Street pairo 5th Street/8th Street loopo 8th Street/gth Street patro 8th Street senl -ml Io llth Street/l2th Street pa.lr
Both at-grade and underground poss.lbillt.les are
belng dlscussed for th€ east/Yrest a.llgnments.
Declslons on an east/rrest alterna ve and rhether
LRT should be at grade or ln subway are expected to
be nade ln ml d-December.
The Comml ttee has also lden fled several candldat6sites for entry to the downtolrn, alone or ln com-
bination:
o Currle Avenua
o Flrst Avenuo/Bl al sde l lo Nl col I et Avenue
o Park/Por and
o I-35H
o Thi rd Street/Fourth Streeto Second Avenus
o Eurlington Northern Brldge 9
All of the comlttees recognize the need for coor-
dlnatlng entry polnts to downtown with the varlous
corrldor al I gnments.
Fl nance Commlttee
The Flnance Advlsory Conm.lttee, chaired by Hennepin
County Conunl ssioner Jeff Spartz, ls reyiewing the
following posslble LRT revenue sources: property
tax, motor vehlcle r€gistration fee/ wheelage tax,
state notor vehicle excise tax, sales tax on
parking, tax lncremgnt, gascline tax, head tax, and
benefit assessment district. The Flnance Committee
is composed of statd leoislators and members of the
local financial community. The Committee will be
formulating its recommendations ln early 1.988.
The Land Use Advlsory Committee has drafted a set ofprlnciples and guldellnes for development along LRT
llnes and at statlon area loca ons. The prlnclples
and guidellnes, curren y under final revieH by com-nittee members, lnclude lssues related to overallplannlng, LRT coordlnat.lon, and tocal control of sta_tion area development.
o Local conorehens lve D]s and offl -clal naps shou I d refl
LRT routes.
ect planned and poten al
l$ue 7 12.18. A7
South/ I-35},l Corrl dor
DoYntown M l nneapol is
The Commlttee has reached a general consensus on thefollowing:
E b SLINE Hennepin County Regional Railroad Authority l$ue 7 12.19.A1
o Amendrents to land use elcnents of colprehenslvo
plans for propertles adJacent to LRT llnes
should b3 at the dlscre on of the tocal Jurls_
dl ctl on.
o other reglonal and state transportation agencies
should reflect the provlslon of LRT ln future
planning, where approprl ate.
oevelopment proposal s should be submitted to th€
LRT Rai'lroad Authorlty for review of the poten_tlal l[pact of the development upon the LRTcorrldor. tbwever, local government units shall
have the flnal authorlty over development plans.
Statlon area plannlng shalt be jolnt.ly deslgned
by the railroad authority and local government
unit.
leglslators on the LRT Corprehenslye Syst€m plan.
Approxlnate'ly 55 peopl6 attended the breakfast
neetlng (above), held at th€ Hhltney Hotet ln
Mlnneapolls. Infornatlon presented at the breakfast'ls avallable from Susan pornr€hn at BRI, Inc.
(370-0700) or l,tary El.len Hudson at HCRRA (348-4OZZ).
o
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tSecond Legislative Breaktast Held
on December 10,1987
The HCRRA sponsored the second ln a series of
perlodlc breakfast meetlngs to update the Hennepln
County Leglslat'lve Delegatlon and other lnterested
o All co nunltles and counfies affected by LRT
should submlt anend ents to comprehenslve plans
reflectlng LRT for Metropol ltan Counci! review
and approval .
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Meetlngs are scheduled on the fo'llowing dates.are open to the publlc.
Hennepin County Reg'onal Railroad Authority ,ou. , ,".rr,,r,
Al'l
Thursday, January 14, 1988
5:30 p.m. llorthyrest CAC (Tentative)
Crystal Clty Hal I
4141 North Doug'las Dri ve
Crystal
Thursday, January 21, 1986
1:30 p. m. TAC
Room C23 Government Center
l,{i nneapol i s
BULK RATE
U.S. POSTAGE
PAID
PERIVIIT NO. 847
Mpls.. MN
RECE;.'E:)
DEC 2 3 i3B7
CITY OF CHANHASSEN
BAFEAFIA DACY
d"{ cout-TER DR / E}: 147
cHAFlHASSEFi r'4i'l 115:: i 7
sttiE
Monday, January 4, 1988
7:00 p.r. Unlverslty CAC
Peopl e's Center
2000 South Flfth Street
Minneapo'lls
Tuesday, January 5, 1988
2:00 p.m. IAC
Room C23 covernment Center
I,li nneapol 1s
7:00 p. m.South (I-35W) CAC
Richfield City Hal I
6700 Pcrtl and Avenue
Richfield
Hennepin County Regional Bailroad Authority
2307-A Hennepin County Government Center
Minneapolis. MN 55487
John E. Oerus. Chair
Jefi Spartz. vice Chair
Sam S. Sivanich. Secretary
Mark Andrc\^/. Treasurer
Flandy Johnson
John Keete
E.E Bobb. J.
HCRRA S;IAfi
348-64.15
Vern Genzlnger
Ken Slevens
Janel Leick
BRW. lnc
370-0700
Susan Pommrehn
Thursday, January 7, lg88
1:30 p.i. TAC
Roofl C23 Goverment Center
lli nneapol I s
IAC - I ntergove rnmenta I Advisory committee
TAC - Technlcal Advlsory committee
CAC - Corrldor Advisory Committee
9
TEvelers lorecssts /We6trer 3umrnary/
.rfnn^re..d,rn
tndat m@,nt .nd . ^r,!d \c.
non 6 d.hv.r!d ro rhc E4m.nb.r
bo.rd ovd rh. Grcnd l}Dtle of
oE cFn h.!..or b..n tu{r. D{bl'.nd {ml crrY olliorl. ddhn.d
ro .6trnr o. di.n sond,v. 56-
d, oilicrrr.E dEdoldl ro drsrl
tne t@nn btun3 $rh rhc 6l-l.!. t..ulrv.nd murum 3l.ff|rhb.E rnE Gt .fl, ro vor. or
pknd.dor \irnr*.j
^rr l,d6: ,.
f,l,?;tH"i,iTtt,.H-"-,i! ::hh Z M.N.lty.. Mrik Drrr.r;;- :.n.,: Atidon lL.n. rtrr<l dxh.. ;.or rnr.n.non.t Mutr,t@d! th",. ;rr nrlrcr orunc re mri i
scara r. rornr *mr inJ.",i ior lrE !@.rv .hd dr.d (tu,lDn .,or rh. bo.rd ol ttnkvq In( . xr, -
I :, 1 taoenno ofl on Fndav. Hlohs
I E:S I mid 2O;. bws 10-20:
tnmi dunn! rht pJ{ dc.rd( li
t ulr.d rh. s.h t conkd.nv..n-dorrmr rn6tn.nB &d 3t+tur
fun.l-nNnr .non' Ihc ch..!.3
.rm 'n t 2J{flE BDon by G.orE
X.lkr of &lr'mc. Md.. eho h.d
b.rn hird 'n Mrn B lh. srl,'3
bo.rd ro dni . 3r..r.rc pl.tr for n
X.lLr r.onm.ndrd lh.r lhc scr!r.r. far "thr.!r renr" ro orEr ih. F.6Ln! BsErlE |!. d-
u.Eto. dcv.lop noc .838'vc,!nd.6inn! rnd fi@.'n tul8.-icd r{ !i.1 rt rk d ao.li forrt. 6eum .!d @lkr.. ud &qr
crhrbnDoi. .Ent3.!d .donon, Dro@frr 8c .lto
'EacorLd dblBhlr u unudtulddrv. for E cou.r. iod hunch-!.a. onl./ mFr!! ld rlr Dc
!m h l99O.d fq rh. @{c rnDc-
A r.* fft of lrun .Js un d rr
Jlly to d6li a pl.n ro tDpr.o.ntun! ol X.I.a! l@in.odzro.!
T16r rFn B dBrol! *hcduH
fn .Lliv.ry No!. I J, b{r }.r d.Ltcd
b, lt. wrr'c'p.t d comDl.rrry of
Bu Hour Minoril! Lad.r SitlSdrcibd. IR-Br@Ulr hrt erd h.hs sDafc DLn3 Eoo U. M.uc
Fliu, CoqEil .bo{r }tEd I'dit nilcEi&. rhodd b. d.rto!.d fiit
&d nd tr rbc, rlourd b..rEnd.d
_Tod:y dEy tu .I Bll rbou rh.@D.auv. .ff6 ud Uc DLrnelll ir !orD3 o! 'i 6E rdhi bu .inft Fi ir !b. tu$E rhr tubb.rrill tit rh. Ed e ro rDar u nrLB b g. 6EeE r.E o." h.i.r4 _Fd .tl lh.
rm rw you r Dltrlr ftU D u6
of a b'llronlotLr tuinEmn po
rrn Ald I lhir Dour E oE h.tay t<k io* rh.r rsE b. Fd
'S66c o..ds !o s oqr rh. tn.mrE .!d ..t Uan l}{ rf,r.h s
b. n6 coit .,La'v. In my jud!-n n h8 ro to b.vo.d. ret. of6.
Md (/,ml ,mpty ullq {rb r!.16@ 6uri.1 S<nGbd sd
Sctcihd .d h. s d .m&.ub.k qng &r.lopE.r. d.crs6 r*1-
ly !o rh. 6uni6 b@!E oaly lh.
@nta6 *rrh L.!. proF rt €lorqld t .bl. lo mYC .nad 6
Man is injured
in tall ,rom bridge
rriE.A--;445 o,u.
R,lldorha*.lf.{3br'tffi.r o, co.n .r! 16 h Etn-
c{i'l.tsa.'nd.,elhu@L*E *.t t6 frdrr. b sad c.r
rh€ Mhen .nd @nrd P.drE c€3ib 6 dnr. n6.s 98 , nrhgE .@br F.r d !. *.t.dor. MdhGis c. m
Sr@ rw. *0 D..cdi.d -6.lffin r.r E.qrnd .d rxjdr o, nGrnr uB ,.qo
9.mJa6.nl'6lollit[to.r.rlo...tu6 d r6.n t .ore aO d..
wo"st v-uu rm o*r r ,im.!
,O.c.mbcr 21. r9l7/Addnronrl ntormrtion/TOYSTOREI
.dn e! rlln hnE M h.h d
r.F6ra152,!6&
ffigBe
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;-i;62!
i;aiE
=
:_11
;4-ia,n-n!=
;-n]n
:-!!
c
lo*Jo h.J?
Twin Ciues aveaage January tempe6fuEs
Hit-and-run driver
kills $oman, sil
AMi.narobrlru6tuL&d L,llcd br . hn{.dtu dnvqany S!trd.y h@'ng rh. ll6..D'n
Counry d.dol c,a'E i oilie
Grcl. ThomFon. 51, of ,7t! ,9rt
Av. S., 6 suat.nd li[.d.r t:t ]r.n. .' rh. inrficrio of ]td Sl'.,!d lTrt !- S St ,l. itd.t.r rD.
Firarorks blast
An.rplorDn.t a firrork a..ror, rn
eulhencm Cnr.: knkd 18 @Dl.rnd r.,u6i *v6. rh. ollkrl P.o
i b,v GAMARO CIIATUNGE
2 AFXo Turbo Camaros battle it out
over and under 8.5 tl. ot figure-eight
track. Super 22-voll power pack & 2
.,!iay racing plug to rB/erse direction.
TOm\r,
Wit,l.g eid t Didsp liEt rrldtn rtE.. wCCqTV rDdr.d b.ri'ghr .r lh. dnrd of th. tMr v.sr. c8rody .I.| th.l .hr46 rc
treE si, rh. @!re| ha ,ord.d
3tron, direroo 'o
.ourty lllnl n,
DLit ty ,rr.nnt. m{a d& fdO. o.r.o .B uur tub rb. arl
c.h(to6 Nordtnr ro tiddtrl, .!d
rh. inprol.n.nr $cr alld tur.
u arB lE4rt @rEl.lc
8u S.ncrb.r ed tlf pra ta mErll lnd d6 .or @w! 6u.B
ro !.n urn rlE b'd6ra!t r dti
&.r _-- - *- ..
ACOLDEN OPPORTUNITY
a un rill ofi. Erl@d bndt. o.ro
ItrEEbk H-, Itw ,n dornbri
MoE Fl,J on \unJ!\ rn.mm.
..d rs ul.n b H.nrp'n (dunt!
Md'dl CrnE n . El ondn'on
TtE tu! B .b.ur ,*r t 6 ou inn
tsm lcm.Mt r!d6. &.ord'nrb PM E'[suk ttrrol Htr
itcnb.y rrll .o! b. Ela*,1 unr'r
ELnv6 qr b. notn6i. U. srlr
Tn{s fr'.l W tmtlrt ol $. Sr!t.P.rol sd h.t no! b..n d.r.r
nm.d ,f 6. h, Lll.r!h9.6d.r!
TIE Er&6r n *r.d .r .bod I l0
D-r. rh.r . lre.d hnd,..dst
l-r5w ra srn of *-![r.d ^t.Thc tr Lrld.d rn rh. ronh66lndl.a ol .h. hr!h,.r. b{r ht rol
:D.,:
o
.rh!. i{n. arg. tr.n 2r o .r& r b 22 6 J.r 31. r,r.g.,650Xn.rb!dJ.r3r.
Avq. llanahsn a.2 Av., tt... t2.a
sErne.hrnqo,*.@|wdds'd
I t I I
I II t I a
I
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GeI a $5 00 Gbate
he m from TO
n Uyo abuy
hostG Racer'Racinq Set
TUE
:0Pr]lfotl!G[t:I11.+ =8:0OPti ;)
RrsxrcrFuRs
. 22a radn gr ra*isa2a!2+i
:siA
t'
r3-rrlr.s-,,,i-
IY
Council
Corirxd ,E! ,qr rX
RcD F.ld M.trrdha Dfl-MirF.!ol'a .d rh.l qhd t!. L.iELte.llo{.d 6utru6 ao foMrd qfi
lllnr dl rannr, -l 6t d b m.L!4 rbc, '@ @rdE .( rt t n rwiarn.rEDol'Etyn D_
M.tranhn sd n B rct rers4.
tor lnc coundl ro @Do4 !86.
taht rl lcAsi.xo.. Blr h. ei( !.r.ru lh. .ou.rl ro d.liv.r.dlou$ttll.rsrfr. tbour !N !o@!r 6unr_f{oo6ry @F[to!.!.1 F!q& . ${d rt t rlrrts
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Avg. M.rihum 2l.il
Dtr\tr\c'f()\'
ri. ktrrtr r d pcridcnl rc.is..di
An 6.lrnu.d or p.a. t8 ii'&!il!,.'i,i "'dl,*1,#1T#,Ji,; f H:.3"!g:n.]8"f, :r... not rv.[.bh *n on ..dt1otr,.nt !o ir....
Metro Councilmay not assume
big role in planning light rail3lF,i'f"?'" ill1l"f',n1;gi1rt**U ,*"-
{mi, rt,t. r stf,n d[*[;a l,snr ThcE tr no (.en to tthEr hthrh. M.r,op.tit tr courcil mry ptry 6,r d-.t.tor;.;r (our.,r orai*j,. rr,ir ioi-ncrirroli;;i! ;" ili i";,..r.r3 or . rcrc rhan rom. 'ur. h*. sht. xmrr s,d (oo,Jrr ion be ".r r.s,r"r"" *,riii i.Jii,i-orr,.mrrcR.rp.cr.d,n dE pr!nn,n, or. rE.n.ounD..d ac.-r,r. h,(.,r3 "ir;r,..i i^rrtii'ii.1i L,"r,r'tnr n,r tnrnr rrlcm h rhc n.rre .r tomrni i.lcrhcr krr ,"a r * iil?" "ij
-ri.;,,t*,"h,. :;"; 'h.,
no nftd ror .dd,rrcn.t (ounc,r 3.a. qrr r.,ii,r i.,rJ ,;:,i;;;;,/.
:1.:1_rr{.r"e" "" .,u*.,* .n,." :'""iTl,:,;il,11.[:l,ffj,,lll;[]murronohrrn (ounli.! thc authonty Kcctc ed ll.hnoDrn Cou.h *fii.fito ourrd xslr rarr irn.r. rh.r aho ha. r,riH 'h. h.d ,i trtht niidcvcl. St.r( Fcp Xo N.lon, DFt_M,nnc$r.d rh.(uunc,r ro m.\c,u,.(oun. opm.n,. h rpp,@(ri.d lR pr._ rmrl...jrrJ.Iii rliili, i,iiil, "rrr Dri.! ,cNrrcd in r rvrkn bcn.rir. v,rh o,rrnsr !o ( ,.", t.a ,rr'"r r';r'r ,i,r rc.,rri,l"ii" iiii rL-,l.il.r,n8rh.c.rn. r*'n c,u.r.rcr r.vrrs;rsurc,nmchr x""r. s,d hG. k".,on ,ila i. "i,ri ui -,],Lr"a
@uhor 1n ft,n.oon.D,r * r.rr. *,rr, rr,,i i,;J .r i-,iri"i-.ii..rhr(ouncir. shich prrn! sndc@dts r.r,o D,!r'and_orh., co!n(ir x*r. _tr irilipii"i r,iiijiiia i."ni!.s mcrrc.(. eo*lhi tr r.qurrcd h.nrb(B.nd jlafl r,c ctoEl) rn- r,is ]Ua:.cnr... l'<.iiii", ,l,il - " .,
D) ,... lr ro.\ph'n to* 't wrtt votv.d,n th. $t(tron of th.'tid.r3uE tnrrcoop.Blron. 6mdor or..mdou for 6rt con. C.udt connnu.d on D.r jB
Tlt ihrrd f. tritt icrllEotuof :
ny hvoril.r, Pout.Ir f.6our . -:
.hi(r.n rjc,.nd ton ot trtcndtrndr.
Il ! r hrDoy idcr. .:
ll rou rr! .xll out riorDiE vourcd hctp. H( ft loDc.lri.rGlit!
rlcnrDrdd!(.d by Mrnn.ed.r .
IrRo, LEn ..d T!. [tbmLSo.dl..rLn Etr*obt . *t. *.,.r.a0l.rl, on c.rim t(.tttd,.n.Dorl rdio rho*, hrv. n!d..
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Light Rail Thansit
As cities become more congested, more of them are recognizing the near impossibility of building
more urban freeways. Decision makers are searching f<>r other solutions to improve urban
mobility. One of these solutions can be Light Rail Transit or LRT.
Many cities have available convenient rights-of-way in the form of seldom used or
abandoned railroad lines, utility corridors, and highway median strips, which connect residential
and commerical areas. LRT is lower cost, modern technology that can use such rights-of-way as well
as othcr kinds of corridors including city strcets. LRT is gaining popularity rapidly in North
American cities as one way to improve overall mobility.
This booklet describes LRT, its advantages, and some representative applications. APTAs Light
Rail Systems Subcommittee of the Rail Operations Committee prepared this booklet with major
assistance from:
Harold Wanaselja, Subcommittee Chairman
Bechtel Civil, Inc.
Joseph S. Silien, Subcommittee Vice Chairman
Gibbs & Hills, Inc.
Kenneth W. Addison, Subcommittee Brochure Coordinator
EMJ/Electrack, Inc.
]onathan D. Boyer
STV/Seelye Stevenson Value & Knecht, Inc.
Ptblnh..l O.tob.r, l9EO 6t ti. Am.nccn Publn 'lidatit A$ociction ntr
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What Is Light Ii
Light Rail Transit is a
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North American Light Rail tansit Systems
Map Code and City operator
Year in
Servace
Route
Miles
Oaily
Passengers
Number
ol Cars
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4
1 Boston, Mass
2 Buffalo, N.Y
Calgary, Alb.
Cleveland. Ohio
5 Detroit, Mich.
Edmonton, Alb.
Fort Worth, Texas
Los Angeles, Calif
Mexico City, Mexico
Newark, N.J.
New Orleans, La.
Philadelphia, Pa.
San Diego, Calif .
San Francisco, Calif .
San Jose, Calif .
Pittsburgh, Pa.
Portland, Ore.
15 Sacramento, Calil.
Massachusetts Bay
Transportation Authority
N iagara Frontier
Transportation Authority
Calgary Transit
Greater Cleveland Regional
Transit Authority
Detroit Department
of Transportation
Edmonton Transit
Tandy Corporation
Los Angeles County
Transportation Commission
Sistema de Transporte Collectivo
New Jersey Transit
Regional Transit Autho;ity
Southeastern Pennsylvania
Transportation Authority
Port Authority of Allegheny County
Tri-County Metropol itan Transportation
District oI Oregon
Sacramento Regional
Transit District
San Diego Trolley, lnc.
San Francisco Municipal Railway
Santa Clara County
Transportation Agency
Municipality of Metropolitan Seatfl e
Toronto Transit Commission
1978
1962
1989
(estimated)
1900
193s
1893
1892
70,000
21,000
36,000
17,500
500
25,000
6,500
1 00,000
(estimated)
47,000
1 2,O00
21 ,000
127,O00
20,000
15,000
(estimated)
21,000
(estimated)
23,000
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40,000
(estimated)
2,000
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35
236
230
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48
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90
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141
50
(estimated)
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244
1897
'r 985
1981
1920
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1986
1987 18.3
Seattle, Wash.
Toronto, Ont.
1981
1897
1987
(estimated)
1982
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The Anrcican l,ttbh)<: Tlunsil Associalion
^
u'ould likc to thank thesc suppliers
Jor their contibutitns h this brochure.
Airesearch Manufacruring Company
Torrance, Calif.
Bombardier, Inc.
Boucherville, eue.
Luminator
Plano, Texas
New York Airbrake Company
Watertown, N.y.
Penn Machine Company
Pittsburgh, pa.
Ohio Brass Company
Mausfield, Ohio
Westinghouse Electric Corporation
West Mifflin, pa.
lri
3030 Ha6or Lane Nonh
Bldg. ll, Suite r04
Minneapolis, MN 55447-21 75
6r2y55319s0
10:
FRCII:
IRTE:
SI]BJ:
MEI.ORANDU'
Planning Conrnission and Staff
llark Koegler IIP
January 7, 1988
Canprehens ive PIan Conpletion Sc*redule
January 19, 1988 - Park and Recreation Commission Final Revie!, ofRecreation Section
The process of updating. the 1980 conprehensive plan is finally nearingcompletion. Rema ining items perEain primarily to the rmplernentation sectio;
a rrl Ehe Tra nsporta cion Section. rn order to complete this process, thefolloring reeting da tes anj discussion Eopics are proposed:
January 13, 1988 - Discuss Transportation Section
Eebruary 3, 1988 - Revievr of tansportation and Implementatiryt Sections
February 17, 1988 - Revie"r of dra ft docurnent includlng Socio-Economic,Land Use, TransportaEion, Recreation, Housing, and fmplementation
Sections.
LiE.ErCar.Fli-
EHINHISSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE . P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
MEMORANDUM
TO3
E ROM:
DATE :
Planning Commission
Planning Staff
January 14, 19 88
SUBJ: Zoning Ordinance Amendment Update
The following ordinance amendment issues are proposed forCommission discussion so that staff can proce;d wittr ttre publichearing process to officially amend the ordinance. Some Lf theseissues were discussed previously by the Commission and. werediscusseil !V tfre City Council at the January 11, l9gg, meeting.These amendments are being processeal aE thia time so that theirapproval can be timed in conjunction with the ordinance codifica-tion process that the city is now concluding.
The cotlification process means that the city commissioned a muni-cipal code corporation ro review al-1 of the city codes anil reviewconflicts i,ith state and federal laws anal other city laws. Atthe conclusion of their rer/iew and in conjunction erith t.he cityAttorney, all of the cityrs Iaws have been codified or organizedinto one book so that there are no duplicaLions from one ordi-
nance to another ordinance. It is anticipated that the CiiyCouncil wiII approve the new codified orCinance at their February
22nd meeting. Because zoning ordinance amendments require publichearings by state laid, it is proposed that the zoning ordinance
amendment issues be1or,, be considered for an official public
hearing on February 3rd. In that manner, all of the changesanticipated by t.he Planning Commission can be incorporated intothe new codified ordinances. I will provide an example of thecodified ordinance at the meeting on Wednesalay evening. Thecodification process has taken three years primarily because ofthe recent Zoning ord.inance review which concluded in February,1987. As can be seen, a number of issues cont j-nue to rise idiththe Zoning Ordinance and this is an attempt to try "kill a numberof birds with one stone".
Remaining on the Cornmissionrs list to be discussed isOrdinance and discussion of the maintenance of centerwithin cuI-d.e-sacs. These issues will be presented atmeeting.
the PUD
i s landsa future
CITY OF
Plann i ng
January
Page 2
Commi ss ion
14, 1988
Fences in Front Yards
Attached is a memorandum from the Public Safety Direct.orregarding the fencing requirements of residential 1ots. Fenceregulations are locat.ed in Article VI , Section 12. The fenceregulations currently do not prohibit a property owner in fencingthe entire lot. The ordinance simply establishes the maximumheight of fence, the procedure to use when the fence is to belocated on a 1ot line and est.ablishes standards for fences thatare adjacent to lakes or used in conjunction wit,h a prirrate
swimming pool .
In reviewing the research that staff conducted in preparing thefence ordinance, other communities' ordinances were also silenton the front yaril issue. Although the concerns that the publicSafety Director has indicated have not been able to be specifiedin detail, the concern appears to be the aesthetic appeaiance ofa 6 foot fence on all sides of a property, especially the frontwhen viewed from the street. This issue is simply a matter ofdeciding hor,, much the city should regulate t.he installation offences. An option could be discussed where fences to be locatedalong the front property line not exceed 3l feet in height. Thisis a compromise in that. the property owner achieves preiention oftrespassing but in the alternative a more aesthetic ippearancemay also be achieved. please understand., however, thil what maybe "aesthetsic" is subject to an individual's point of view. TheZoning Ordinance needs to be concerned about health, safety,welfare issues as well as aesthetic issues. If the Commisiion isto pursue t.his, it is recommended that the ordinance language bestructured to regulate fences along road right-of-ways ritfrerthan side lot line and interior lot lines. Typicalty, the sideand the rear lot lines are those lines where piopert! owners wantto have a 6 foot fence to act as a barrier trom Ltre ldjacent pro-perty and to provide privacy. Although in the case of-cornerlots, a 6 foot fence may be desirable for some who wish to blockthe headlights from passing traffic.
It is recommended that the Commissiondetermine rdhether or not staff shouldtion.
discuss this issue andpursue further investiga-
Temporar y Conditional Use Permi ts
Currently, Article VI , Section 4, provides that temporary struc-tures and uses to be located on a 1ot within the cily releive atemporary conditional- use permit. As some of the members recarl,the City Attorney has a problem with this section in that itconf licts r^rith stat.e lar", ( see Attachment #2 ) . Given theAttorneyrs opinion, it is recommended that this section bedeleted from the Zoning Ordinance. This issue was brought up inconjunction with the temporary book store application i"n ttre
Planning Commission
January 14, 1988
Page 3
rural area several months ago. At that time, the Commission was
concerned as to whether or not elimination of this section wouldprohibit some temporary uses like Christmas tree lot sales tooccur. The Conmission should be aware that temporary outdoordisplay cf materials are permitted in the commercial district asconditional uses and that the City Council in the past has waivedthe conditional use permit process for Christmas tree sa1es. In
summary, as the City Attorney states, if the use or structure isnot provided for in the current zoning district, then the
Commission should either consider either a zoning ordinance
amendment or prohibit the use. Unfortunately, temporary uses
sometimes become permanent uses and a number of problems are
created for the city.
Cemetery S ignage
This issue was raised during consideration of the sign variance
request for St. Hubert Church for the construction of the ceme-
tery gate/sign to be located along west 78th Street (see attached
Planning Commission minutes). The Commission directed staff to
come back with a recoflunendation as to how the ortlinance should be
amended to accommodate for cemetery signage. Staff therefore
recommends that Article IX, Section 2. be amended to add Item 20
as follows:
20. Signage for cemeteriesditional use permit.
sha11 be processed as a con-
Staff did not want to recommenil a specific sign size as thats Idas
the issue involved with the St. Hubert application. If there is
to be an entry gate, establishing design staodards would be
"guessing" at this time. Therefore, we simply recommend t,o
require a conditional use permit and that upon specific applica-
tion and review of the Planning Commission and City CounciI,
cemetery signage can be adequatsely addressed.
Architectural Standards
The City Council agreeC that the Zoning ordinance should be
amended to provide for architectural standards to prevent the
construction of metal buildings in the comrnercial and industrial
areas. Metal buildings/poIe barns are typically used in the
single family districts and tshe rural districts to accommodate
buitdings such as tool barns from Sears to agricultural storage
builtlings. Included in that packet and also included in this one
were examples from Minnetonka and Eden Prairie. The Eden Prairie
ordinance was much more specific than the Minnetonka ordinance.
The primary objective of this amend.ment was to prohibit the
construction of metal buildings in commercial and industrial
Planning Commission
January 14, 1988
Page 4
districts.
be included
Therefore, the following language is recommended toas Section 26 of Article VI:
Section 26. Metal Buildings. Structures located in theOffice and Institutional, Business, and Industrial Districtsshall not have metal exteriors or be of metal construction.
Acce s s ory Buildinqs
On Jaouary 1l-, 1988, the City Council discussed the zoning ordi-nance amendments previously reviewed by the Planning Commission.The Planning Commission recommended Ehat an accessory building belimited to 1000 square feet in size in the RSF and R4 districts.Currently the zoning ordinance permits accessory buildings to be5 feet from the rear lot line. The Council felt that a 1000square foot accessory building was too large to be located 5 feetfrom the rear 1ot 1ine. The City Council requested staff toreview typical accessory building sizes and to provide graduatingsetbacks for different size accessory buildings.
Accessory buildings can be arranged into two types. The first isa st.orage shed which ranges from 8 x 8 to 12 X ),2 sguare feet andthe second is a pole barn which can be designed almost to anysize. Staff is proposing that 200 sguare feet be the maxi.mumsize for any accessory building to be located 5 feet from therear lot line. Any accessory building over 200 sguare feet mustbe located 15 feet from the rear lot line. The 200 feet separa-tes storage sheds from larger pole barns and garages.
Demolition Debris Disposal
Staff is in the process of reviewing the Minnesota pollution
ControL Agency Regulations to determine which additional con-ditions are applicable. Any additional conditions wiIl be addedto the ordinance amendment proposal.
CITY OF
EHINHISSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE . P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
I have been getting a few complaints and suggestions these past
few months regarding the Zoniog Ordinance section concerning fen-ces. There appears to be no restrictions on holv much of youryard you can fence, including Ehe front yard if that is yourdesire.
I have been fieldinq some cornplaints that fencing in the frontyarC detracts from the aesthetics of the neighborhoo<i. The
suggestions have been to prohibit the fencing-in of a front yard.
hlha t are your thoughts
Commission meetiog?
and could this be brought up at a Planning
IIEUORANDUM
TO: Barbara Dacyl City Planner
FROM: Jim Chaffee, Public Safety Director
DATE: December 10, 1987
SUBJ: Fence Requ i rements/Restr ict ions
F
hrWwtdfll
t (
D^vrD L. GRANNTS - 1874- 1961
D^vrD L. GR^NNrs.JR. - 19l0-1980
L,lv OFFrcEs
GnaNurs, GnaNNn, FARRrI & KNUTSoN
PtRoFEssloNAL Assocr noN
Po6'r OrrtcE Box ,7
,(), NoRvEsr B^NK ButrDrNG
16l NorrH CrNcor.D EXCHANGE
Sou[r ST. P^uL MrNNEsor 55075
TET"EPHoNE: (6121 455- 1661
September 11 , 1987
TEEcoPtEx.,
(612') 4t5-2tt9
DAvtD L. HA.R}{EYn
M. CrcruA R^Y
Eruorr B. KNErsor
Mrcll,rxx J. M^YE
Ms. Jo Ann OlsenCity of Chanhassen
690 Coulter Drive, Box
Chanhassen, Minnesota
147
55317
RE: Temporary Conditional- Use permits
Dear Jo Ann:
You asked me to review andof the City's Zoning Ordinance
use permi,ts. Minnesota Statutes
Article vI, Section 4
temporary conditionalprovides in part:
comment on
conce rni ng
s 462.3s9s
Duration. A condi.tional use perrnit shalIas long as the conditions agreed upon arenothing in this section sha11 prevent theenactlng or amending official controls toof conditional uses.
Conditional uses may be approved by the governing body orother designated authority by a showing by the appticantthat the standards and criteria stated i,n the ordinance willbe satisfied. The standards and criteria sha11 incl-ude bothgeneral reguirements for aII conditional uses, and insofaras practicable, requirements specific to each designatedconditional use.
The City's temporary use permit does not comply with eitherrequirement. Having been granted a "temporary permit" anapplicant could argue that the time limitation vras prohibi,ted bystate statute and that they have the right to continueindefinitely. Our response wouLd be that if he or she is correct,then the entire permit r^ras voj.d from its inception. A court wouldhave to sort out who is correct. This concern can be eliminatedin advance by repealing the provision.
RECI;J=D
stP 14 1387
CIT]T OF CHANHASSEN
tttltlcrfi{,tAvT#t
VaNcE B. GiANNts
v^Nc€ B. G8,{NNls, JR-
P,{rRtcK A. FAaaEl
D^vrD L. GR^NNrs. III
Rocri N. KMrrsoN
remain in effect
observed, butmunicipality from
change the status
i
Ms. Jo Ann O1sen
September 11, 1987
Page Two
I am also concerned with the open-endedness of theprovision. Under it, virtually anything can go in, subject of
course to the criteria for issuing any conditional use permit.
truly rs r
IS IS
.A
!
SON, P
er
RNK:srn
N/
(
CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEET I NG
SEPTEMBER 23, L987
Chairman Conrad called the meeting to order at 7:45 p m
MEMBERS PRESENT: steven Emmings, Robert siegel, Ladd conrad and David
Head I a
MEMBERS ABSENT:Tim Erhart, James l^ti ldermuth and Howard Noziska
OIsen, Asst. Ci tySTAF! PRESENT: Barbara Dacy,
Flan-nei--5'frE-Erry Brown, Assr .
City Planne r;City Eng i neer
Jo Ann
PUBLIC HEARI NG:TEMPORARY CONDITI ONAL USE PERMIT FOR THE ESTABLISHMENTOF A BOOK STORE IN HER HOME LOCATED AT 8I9 O GALPIN BLVD. i,iHICH I S ZONEDA-2 ,AGRICULTURAT ESTATES,MARIAN SCHM ITZ.
PubIic Present:
Mr and Mrs. Lawrence Raser 8 2I0 calpin Blvd .
there and thatrs what
Barbara Dacy presented the staff report on this item.
Mrs. Raser: Werre the Rasers, we live right next door to her and we qrerejust kind of wondering how she can have a retail store in t., t oo""-. "---
Thatts our main concern. Then another thi.ng we hrere wondering aboutparking- rf there's going to an awfur rot Lr parking with that? There,s -been before $rhere theyrve had -company and they-,re o"6a ou. ariveway roiparking- They had about a 40 foot molorhome in oo. ariveway ooe day whenwe came home.
Conrad: Hor,, close do you live to her?
l'1r. Raser: Right next door.
Conrad: Do you think it,s going to be a negative impact? It,s not goingto be a great use bur do you think it,s goirig to be a- neg.ti.rl -i;;;";;"', -
Mrs- Raser: lJe donrt know. There's enough traffic out there right nowas it is. we get an awful lot of traffic.
Mr. Raser: ...which is, that. is agricultural Iandpeople are buying their homes.
Mrs. Raser: There was a time when Dale Vlanaker had a business out thereand they closed him out.
Emmings moved, Siegel seconded tofavor and motion carried.close public hear j.ng. AII voted in
ba_ckground. She operated the bookstore in town.evicted because of the downto$rn redevelopment?
Conrad: A little bit ofIn essence, has she been
,fr\*dilNr#-
{
J(
Planning Commissj.on Meeting
September 23, I9g7 - page 2
Dacy: She has indicatedCity policy has been not
up to a year and I also related to her thatto approve anything beyond a year,s time.
Dacy: That's correct- The city had a rease with her to operate thebookstore out of the old town hart. she was given notice is required bythe lease- she had been rooking ersewhere an6 no ronger in chanhassenbecause commercial rent rates in a retair center is tiirty expensivecompared to the size of her operation. so shers continuiig to rook inExcelsior and other areas but -in the meantime ";J;e
-;--a;.ioru.y permit.
Conrad: So we don't know hoe, temporary it is.
past
conrad: so Barbara you do not feer that the circumstances of her reasenot being renewed because of the dor./ntown redeveropment, are extenuatingcircumstances that wourd fit into the accepted mea-ns foi grinting her aconditionaL use?
?acy: f may have my own personal opinions. As a planner,interpret the ordinance and be objec-tive erith ".r.r| ..=".'another case within the next month that wants a temporary
Conrad: But because she was in a circumtance because ofredevelopment, that Ccesn,t sway you at alI in this?
I rve got to
There may be
u se.
our downtown
have to
Iegal
use.
Dacy: I canrt make a recommendation based on those facts. Imake a recommendation based on what the ordinance says .nJ th.irnplications to the city for granting a temporary co-nditional
Emmings: r basi.cally agree with the staffrs position on this. r feelthere shouldnrt be a bookstore in a private home. r don,t have any ideawha E temporary means and r don't think we shourd al low it even on atemporary basis- r guess if they told us they had a rease bot tr,"ycouldnrt get into the store and they knew they were going to be abre toget in 6 weeks or something, Ehan r vrourd rook at. it dirfeientry but itdoesn't even sound alL that, it sounds like.it,s. enEirely lo""i6r" ir,.ywonrt find a place to rent and we may see this thing trreie'ior a rongtime. The other thing that kind of interested me i3 the fact that sheapparentry selrs some kind of materials for peopJ.e who are active in AAand is the only source of those materials localry and r wanted to askwhat part of their business that was but they're not here to answer thos eguestions. In Iight of that, I guess I'm just opposed to it-
siegel: r don't feer that we should do anything out of the ordinary asfar as a conditionar use permit in this case either but r donrt know irwe shourd react by removing the provision from the zoning ordinance. in"provision for Eemporary. condit.ionar use permits I gather were taken forregitimate reasons and included in there are zonin{ ordinance for suchthings rike christmas tree rots and seasonar type 6perati"ni ,t"r" it"yrequire a temporary conditionar use permit. r-bon,i think we shoulderiminate that kind of opportunity because r don,t see that in the same
(
Planning Commission Meeting
September 23, L987 - page 3
li9ht as this
report.kind of an application but otherwise I agree with the staff
Headla: I'm sure glad Irm not a business person in this town. We've gotsome cold blooded people here. r kind of like the wording of thetemporary conditional use permit. It Ieaves some human flctor and aprace to talk about it. we evicted tbis person, pulred out their lease.
r
Dacy: If you could avoid theimpersonal but we had a leasewas going to happen.
term evicted. It sounds so cold and
agreement so both parties understood what
Headla: Apparently we had a viable business person in this tovrn, thelease ran out and nov, werre in a position we donrt r.rant to do anything toherp. saying black is brack and white is white. r think it can-be m6rethan that. ..give them an easy turn them around and that motorhome, Irmglad to see sone kind of, I vras hoping the other person would be here.rrm torn now with those types of arguments because the safety factor isso important. I dontt know which way I'd vote right no$r. Do you haveany idea how much traf f ic Aoes in there now, of that sEore?
Dacy: Based on the information that she relayed to me, forpotentially I think she said I or 2 cars every hour. It isintensity operation but we had to address a Grger issue.
a per i oda low
Headla:I can see
Didn't herSiegel:
hal l?
Dacy: I think that,s correct.to that however.
where you're comj.ng from r.rith that recommendation.
business exist before she located in the old town
I do not know where she was located prior
siegel: she entered that agreement knowing that was a redeveropment areaand that rocation was going to be used for historical purposes so sheknew it was a temporary situation when she did the leise so it's not like -she didnrt have an opportunity to look for other places to rocate duringthe interim. r donrt see it as a cold blooded act. she knew that theredeveropment was going to occur eventual).y and in the near future whenshe moved in.
HeadIa: Do r., e have any idea what would happen to the servicesrender if she can't operate out of her home for a while?
Dacy: I understand that shers continuing her search to locateother community. I only have to assume ihat she would have todiscontinue that until she could find another place.
Emmings: could she do it by mail?
they
In some
(
Planning Commission Meet i ng
September 23, ]-987 - page 4
Dacy: Probably not but again, the Chanhassen situation werve got a lotof commercial deveropment coming in. we approved two commercill stripcenters and the one over at the e-superette but unfortunatety those aiehigh rent in the commerc ial centers for Ehe size of her operation so wedid try and work with her to say wel1, you could try thijplace, thisplace and this pLace but the economics ind the mark6t downiown now canrtaccomodate her.
HeadIa: If we were to approve something for Iike 3 to 6 months, vrouldthere be a problem with terminating thaE?
Dacy: The advantages of that would be that you would allow her tocontinue for a limited amount of bime. The aisadvantage r.rould be thatthere is always that potential of asking for an extenJion and I guess yourun that risk with every time period that you establish.
Headla: I guess I'd like to see them have it for like 3 months onlybecause they do serve a useful purpose to the community and if you makeit 3 months, thatrs a big red flag that they've got to get out there andhussle and get something lined up. Anything beyond that, they can kindof sit back and bring business in there and inconvenience the neighborswhich we shouldn't be doing.
Conrad: I don't agree that $re should allow the conditional use. I thinksimply the proximit-y to the neighbors with a retail operation overshadows
any kind of obligation to keep her in business. I think in thisparticular circumstance, if the circumstances were different and maybe
even if they $rere here, there m ight be more information for me to
i ncorporate in my thinking but r ight now, I think because of her closeproximity to the neighbors, her potential hours of operaEion for a retailuse, I don't think thatrs appropriate in this particular district. In
terms of what legal counsel has directed, I guess I'm kind of naive in
understanding the legal implications of the variance or the conditionaluses. It seems to me to be a way that we can review certain uses on asituation by situation approach and I guess Irm not sure I want to givethat up at this point in time but I donrt understand the State Statute
that werre operating under and therefore if it's totally out of order, Iguess we should get rid of that but in terms of what Bob is saying, thoseconditional uses make sense and therefore I donrt know that I would liketo see this conditional use struck from our ordinance. Maybe $re should
take, steve you've got a Iittle bit of insight on the legal aspects ofthis, what do you think?
Emmings: It doesn't seelu to me whether or not we keep that in our
ordinance is in front of us anyway, is it?
Conrad: No. It's what we recommend the staff to do.
Emmings: I agree with Bob but I think, looking at what the Attorneyrswritten here, that once you grant a temporary permit an applicaot canthen argue that the time limibaEion is prohibited by State Statute. Then
i
Conrad: Because theyrre not temporary.
they have the right to continue indefinitely and now you,ve got a realbattle on your hands because now yourve got to say, okay then we reallycanrt issue these temporary permits at all.
Headla: I think with aof 3 months.
small business we should extend it for a maximum
Conrad: Barbara, in terms of the ordinance, the temporary conditionaluse.permit, r guess r wourd like staff to review it iurtrr6r-ind tring itback to us for modifications, alterations or elimination.
PUBLIC HEA R I NG:VARIANCE TO THE SIGN ORDINANCE {ARTICLE 9 , SECTION 7(r)]FOR THE
sbErH-3
CONSTRUCTION F AN ENTRANCE GATEWAYo
HUBERTI S
CHURCH.
Representing Appl icant
AppI icantrs Arch i tec t
ON PROPER?.
TeulEEnTI-e LOCATED ON T HE
ND ZONED OI,IDE OF WEST 78TH STREET (ST.
OEEICE INDUSTRIAL,ST. HUBERTI S
Public Present:
Harold KerberCharlie Combs
Barbara Dacy presented the Staff Report on this item.
r\
Planning Commission Meet j. ng
September 23, L987 - Page 5
Emmings: Now yourve got for sure yourre going to go to court and that rdon't think r.re want that. An easy way to avoid thit, this thingconflicts with the use in that area and that's enough for me. it tr,eyhad some concrete p1an. r guess what bothers me iJ r don,t see anyth-ingconcrete from them that they plan to have this rearry be a temporaryduration. rt looks to me rike it's a very marginal 6usiness, lnd tiat,s -not for me to judge but itrs such a marginal business that they can'tafford to pay rent out of $rhat they make out of the business. well, oncer see that it conflicts wilh the zoning in the area, r don,t think i,vegot any choice. rtts not rike christmas trees. r think the christmastree example is a good one. . There you knor., they,re not going to rrant tobe -selring christmas trees in January. you knoiv it's going to have arife of it's own if you can reasonarty put a two week limitation on it or-month or whatever but this isn't the iame character to me.
P3"y, Maybe the suggestion is staff can work with the Attorney, maybethe proper vehicle is a conditional use permit. Maybe there's some othervehicre to alLow for the types of uses tiat he tist6d tonight but again,yes yourre right, that's realLy not the issue.
Emmings moved, sieger seconded that the planning commission reconmend todeny the request for a temporary Conditional Use permit +g7_16 based onthe.Attorney's opinion. arr voled in fivor except Headla who opposed the -motion and motion car r i. ed.
\
Planning Commission Meeti ng
September 23, L98j - page G
Conrad: Before we open itbusiness sign is what?
Conrad: And Ehis
5 feet high?
,
up for public comment, a ground low prof iJ-e
Dacy: That is a sign that is directly attachedtaller thao 5 feet and no larger than 24 squarewould be, for example I think the Redman pioject
t,he ground area. The Chanhassen Office Complex
to the ground and is nofeet in area. An examplesign is integrated intosign right next to TH 5.
one would fail that requirement because it's more than
Dacy: And if you look at the definition of a signsays pole structures. We look at that and said itprofile sign, it is an elevated sign. Thatrs thea crucial planning i tem.
in theis not
issue.
ord i nancea ground
I know it
ir
isn't
Siegel moved, Emmings seconded tofavor and motion carried.close public hearing. AII voted in
Headla: I agree with the Staff's recommendations.
siegel: Maybe just some generar informational comments that r wourd liketo have for my own knoerledge. That,s a very small cemetary with limitedcapacity and no area for growth, r.rhat is !he capacity of iL now and whatis the potent i aI ?
HaroId Kerber: Itrs hard to say. Therers still a lot of room tovrard thehighway, about 100 feet yet Ehat could be used.
Siegel: Towards TH 5?
Harolal Kerber: Yes.
Siegel: I guess thatrs one of the questions I have about
is don't you know the status of that right-of-way? Does
any kind of right-of-way situatjon with the railroad?
that proper tythat get into
Harold Kerber: Towards the back, no. I,le're talking about the front.
Harold Kerber: Right now there's stiII 160werll need more land or 9o to the front. Is
land or can it be used for cemeLary?
Iots available. Eventuallythat going to be commercj.al
S iegel: I guess my opi nion would be that there would be no availableland for extension of the cemetary.
Harold Kerber: We couldnrt come around tohrards the railroad?
Siegel: I donrt knorr. BarbaEa, do you know?
Siegel: But what is the capacity of that area for a cemetary?
((
Planning Commission Meet i ng
September 23, L987 - Page 7
Dacy: You could
and the railroad.cemetary, thatrs
occupy the land that
Thatrs your land.fine.
you ovrn between West 78th StreetIf they wanted to expand the
Siegel:
Dacy:
Siegel:
Harold
Is
Yes.
And
it owned for cemetary purposes?
how much land are you talking about?
Kerber: About 4 acres.
Harold Kerber: Itrs about 2 L/2 acres of
Siegel: Does this structureon West 78th Street?
Iand.
plots left in the existing
Dacy: That sounds fairly accurate but itrs zoned office instituationar.
siegel: r have a concern here, if that were to become a cemetary today, -it nourdntt be- rf they_came i-n with a proposar to make a cemetary atthat. rocation, it probabry rrouldn't te granted because of the nature ofthe business industriar comprex so rrm iondering whethei ttris is sort ofconverging the potentiar growth of it in an area that is rearry ";a-;oi;g-to be suitable for a cemetary location.
SiegeI: And there,s about 160 available
area?
Harold Kerber: ...they're already plotted out.
Dacy: Itrs under the St. Hubertrs Church ownership now. Theycontinue to locate more plots within that area. We looked atrequest merely saying vre want an eotrance into that area and tthat particular structure.
canthishis is for
go around the cemetary or is just fronting
Dacy: I trs just frontingfeet behind the property on West 78thline.Street anci will be located I0
Harold Kerber: Also on TH
TH 101 .
101. The cemetary also goes all the vray to
street, I meant TH lgl. Itrsbe Iocated along West Zgth
Dacy: Irm sorry, when I said west Tgththe north side of the property. It willStreet which on that part is TH 10I.
Siegel: The question of the poles, I thinkand have it fenced very nicely as they haveurhether iE might be, with the pol-e going up,
Dacy: About 15.
i t's a good ideadone here but I
how many feet ?
to sign it
ques t i on
r
Planning Commission Meeting
September 23, L98'7 - page I
I
PauIy's and
and theyr re
Harold Kerber: The poles are. . .
Siegel: Irm not questioning the waII, Irm questioning the pole thatwirr be erected from the warr and that entrance there and the fact thatit is in a real publ ic area. It's not I ike i t's si tuated out infarmland so therers going to be a lot of access to it from everythingfrom juveniles to. . .
Harold Kerber: Access to the cemetary you mean?
Siegel: Yourre in a dordntown area so you're going to havethe Riveria and the other bars are right across the streetgoing to be there I guess and stay there.
Harold Kerber: We've got signs acro s s the street of wood structure.
Siegel: And you haven't had any problem with that?
Harold Kerber : No.
Siegel: That's all I have.
Emmings: I like the pl.an. I think it's very appropriate. I think it,sgot a certain character to it thaE's app4opriate to where it is as partof the downtor.rn redevelopment. I think it aII fits very nicely and I'mall for allovring it. I guess my only hang-up is how to do it for otherones that come along. Rather than granting a variance, and I think itrsvery easy to do that because it is and it i snr t. Itrs very easy todistioguish this from the other things that we see in the industrial
of f ice area down there and I don't have any problem with tha t but tha t
makes me think we ought to set it in a sepa r a te category because itreally isntt a hardship situation so I donrt like granting a variancefor that reason but I'm not real happy with this language and I feel wealmost ought. to deat with cemetarys maybe at some future meeting. Thethings I see, this sign thaE theyrve got., it's got a littleinspirational message on it and thatis fine. We wouldn't $rant Eo see
Siegel: I guess from my o$rn personal standpoint, I don,t see that as areaL attractive tbing to put in there with poles and that kind of thingdue to the fact that itis very close to our downtordn bar district eriththe very possibility of vandalism and that kind of thing occuring to iton a regular basis. . Itm- thinking of, generally you think of wroughtiron.cr something like that having a l6t more stiuirity especiarrf in apublic area. Usual,ly they put up wroughE iron in rural arlas forstability purposes. I just question whether the pol-e wiII have alasting effect and whether there might be problem! lrith it from avandalism standpoint.
Harold Kerber: There are going to be rock walls.
Siegel: But it's going to be a wood structure, super structure right?
(
some kind of promotionar message up there and r donrt kno$, exactly whatthat means- rtrs hard to imagine somebody putting a sign on a cemetarythatrs going to wind up being offensive io -me bui it,s lossibre. we,veseen a rot of weird things. we see a rot of weird things here and youstart thinking are they going to 1ight it or are they 95ing to put -signs
up v,ith I,ights or li9ht it some wayj we may $rant to nave cdntror thatv,,ay. I feel almost it's more like a condilional use type of a thingwhere, if we could just take a look at each one indivi6uaf :.y ana saIyes or no but as a matter of general intent, say they ought to beallowed to have a sign of thii kind, whatever that nl"nsi So I guessthose are my concerns. I rr,ould be willing to aIlow this one to goforw:'.d but I guess we ought to maybe have an ordinance amendnentbrought back to us as a separate topic and r guess r'd like to rook atit as a conditional use.
Conrad: The top of t.he sign is something made out of rrood?
Dacy: Thatrs cor.rect.
Planning Commission Meeting
September 23, L987 - eage 9
Conrad3 And thea timber. . .
Harold Kerber :
Conrad: Itrs 2
Dacy: And 3 x
would f i E in with
message is carved in the $rood? To you knowJ-edge, it's
Itrs 10 x L0 or g x g
x L2.
12 posts.
Conrad: What does 3 inch by 12 inch
Dacy: The person who designed this
Charlie Hoops: If you guys have anyHoops, Irm a parishioner over there.
mean?
has now arrived.
questions, my name is Charlie
Conrad: Werre dialoguing about the request andclarification, what you,ve designed, the postsdiagram I've got says 3 inch by-12 inch posEs.
Charlie Hoops: 3 inches thick just !o give itactually the cross member on top so roughly 12thick going up Eo hold rhe horirontal mlmbtr.for something that hras just kind of rustic in n
enough stability to
i nches \^, ide w i th 3 i nchesThe Father was Iook i ngature that he though t
just for
yourve got
What does
information
going up, thethat mean?
the old church.
top part is made out of what?Conrad: And the
Charlie Hoops: Timber also.
Conrad: And the message is carved in?
f{
Planning Commission Meet i ng
September 23, 1987 - Page 10
Charlie Hoops: Routed in, thatrs correct so it realIy wouldntt standout. It basically would be something that if we put a brown stain onthat it might darken out where the letters are so itrs just got a brownto dark brown tone. Sornething that's not going to really stand outor somethingrs that yourll notice if you stand close to it and it...
Conrad: I like the fencing portion of this. A gate type structure. I
think thatrs nice. The entryway itself, I guess Irm with Bob, I kind of
like wrought iron and whatever but I think here I just don't vrant it to
be something thatrs going to detract from the area and I guess my sense
is it's not going to detract from the area. Therefore, I think we
should be granting this. I'm interested in Steve's comments in terms of
how we treat these in the future. Barbara, what do you think about a
conditional use?
Dacy: I think that's a good idea.
Conrad: That makes sense to me.
Emmings moved, HeadIa seconded that the Planning Commission recommend to
approve the sign Variance Request *87-6 based on the plan submitted in
Attachment #1. A1l voted in favor and motion carried.
Conrad: As a footnote to that, if Staff could bring back to us their
recommendation as to ho$, we can control the cemetary use of signage
through the use of a conditional use permit.
PUBLIC HEARING: CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT TO INSTALL A I8O FOOT RADIO
TOWER ON PROPERTY ZONED A-2, AGRICULTURAL ESTATES AND LOCATED SOUTH OF
CR 14 ( PIONEER TRAIL) AND EAST OE THE CHTCECO NORTHWESTERN RA I LROAD
TRACKS NEAR THE BOUNDARY BETWEEN CHANHASSEN AND EDEN PRAIRIE,
SPEIIALITIES.
PubIic Present:
9q!
Mr. and Mrs. Dave Schmidtke
Mrs. Robert Tischleder
Jo Ann Olsen presented the staff report on this item-
Dave Schmidtke: I guess it was Pretty well Iined out in the staff
report. If there are any questions.
Conrad: So nothing to add to the staff rePort?
Dave schmidtke: No, it covers everything.
Mrs. Tischleder: You say there's a road going in on the corner?
App l- i can t
185 Pioneer Trail
CITY OF
EHINHISSEN
4-*
MEMORANDUM
TO: Planning
FROM: Barbara
Commission
Dacy, City Planner.
. 1 111/ty .
. -? I zo./ Pb
In conclusion, staff would recomrnend that the Planning
Commission retain Wednesday evening as the regular meeting
day.
The bylaws were approved by the Planning Commission at theirlast meeting. It was remembered thats Mr. Batzli commented onthe language in one section of the bylaws, specifically,
3
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
DATE: January 14, 1988
SUBJ: Remaining Organizational Items
1. Postponed from the January 5, 1988, meeting rdas the appoint-ment of the representative to the Housing and RedevelopmentAuthority. The HRA meets the third Thursday of every nronth.Bob Siegel has been the HRA liason up until his resignation.
2. The Commission at the last meeting briefly discussed movingthe regular scheduled meeting day from lilednesday to anotherday in the $eek. Already occupied are Monday evenings. TheCouncil meets on the second and fourth Mondays and they typi-cally schedule special meetings on the remaining Monday ifnecessary. The Park and Recreation Commission meets on the
second and fourth Tuesdays of the month. Their policy hasalso been to schedule additional meetings if necessary on the
remaining Tuesdays. This leaves Thursday evenings open,
however, it would have to be the second and fourth Thursdaysof the month because Ehe HRA meets on the third Thursday ofthe month as well as the Southr4rest Metro Transit Boaral .Staff has reservations on encouraging the Commission to
change uhe day of the meeting since Thursday appears to bethe only possible day of the week thal would serve as anaLternative. SecondIy, this woulil mean that staff(engineering, public safety, planning, etc.) would be respon-sible for preparing two packets on the first and third weeksof the month. Given our past workload, putLing out twopackets is sometimes next to impossible and puts a signifi-cant amount of pressure on our secretarial staff.
Planning Commission
January 14, 1988
Page 2
Section 4.2. His comment was to remove work nstick".Therefore, staff has reworded this section for the pianninoCommission review. rf acceptable ro rhe c"* i""ionl-il"i;,recommended that the bylaws be approved once again ,itt, itr"noted proposeC change.
BYLAWS
PTANNING COMMISSTON
CITY OF CHANHASSEN
The following bylaws are adopted by the City Planning Commissionto facilitace che performance of its duties and the exercising ofits functions as a commission established by the City Councilpursuant to the provision of Subdivision 1, Section 462.354
Minnesota State Statutes anotateil.
SECTION 1 Duties and Responsibi I i ties Planninq Commission:
1.1
The Planning Commission shall
City Council through carryingA1I f inal- decisions are to be
1.2
serve as an advisory body to lhe
out reviews of planning natters.
made by the City Council.
The
the
the
Planning Commission sha11 prepare a comprehensive Plan for
future development of the City and recommenil on amenalments to
plan as they arise.
1.3
The Planning Commission shal1 initiate, direct, and review the
provisions and stan,fards of tshe Zoning Ordinance and Subdivision
Regulations and report its recommendations to the city Council.
t.4
The Planning Commission shall review applications and proposals
for zoning ordinance amendments, subdivisions' street vacations,
conditional use permits and site plan reviews and make their
recommendations to the City Council in accordance with the Zoning
Ordinance and Subdivision Ordinance.
1.5
The Planning Commiss ion
proposals as prescribed
shaII hold public
by the Zoning and
hearings on
Subdivision
deve lopmen t
Ordinances.
1.5 Establishment. of Subcommi ttees
The Planning Commission may, as
special subcommittees compr i sed
SECTION 2 Meetings:
2.t T ime
Regular meetings of
third weeks of each
they deem appropriate, es tabl ish
sole1y of Eheir own members.
the Commission shall be held on the first and
month at 7:30 p.m. at the City Council
Chambers, 690 Coulter Drive, unless otherrrrise directed by the
Chairman, in which case at least 24 hours notice will be given toall members. Regular meetings shall have a curfew of ll:00 p.m.
which may be waived at the discretion of the Chairman. AtIunfinished business will be carried over to the next regularPlanning Commission meeting.
hlhen the regular meeting day falls on a lega1 holiilay, thereshaLl be no Planning Commission meeting.
2.2 - Special Meetings
Special meetings shall be held upon call by the Chairman, or inhis absence, by the Vice-Chairman or any other member with theconcurrence of four ot.her members of the cornrnission, and with atsIeast 48 hours of notice to all members. Notice of aI1 specialmeetings shalI also be posted on the official City Bulletin
Board .
Planning Commission members sha1l attend not less than seventy-five (75t) percent of all regular and special meetings heldduring a given (calendar) year, and shall not be absent fromthree (3) consecutive meetings without prior approval of theChairman. Failure to meet this minimum attendance requirementshall be cause for removal from the Commission by action of theCity Counc i 1 .
2.3 - Attendance
SECTION 3 Commission Composi t ion Terms and Vacancies:
-2-
3.1 - Composition
The Commission shall consist of 7 voting members. Seven menbersshal1 be appointed by the Council and miy be removed by theCouncil.
3.2 - Terms and Vacancies
The Council shall appoint seven members to t.he Cornmission forterms of three years. Vacancies during the term shall be filledby the Council for the unexpired portion of the term. Everyappointed member shall before entering upon the charge of hisduties take an oath t,hat he will faithfully discharg6 the dutiesof his office. A11 members shall serve without comiensation.
3.3 - Quorum
Four Planning Commission members shal1 constitute a quorum forthe transaction of business. Whenever a quorum is n6t present,no final or official action sha1l be taken at such meeting.
SECTION iI Oqgani zat ion:
4.r Election of Off icers
At the first meeting in January of each year, the planning
Commission sha1l hold an organization meeting. At this meeting,the Comission shall elect from its membership a Chairman andVice-Chairman. This shall be done by secret ballot. Each menbersha1l cast its balIot fro the member he wishes to be chosed forChairman. If no one receives a majority, bal.loting shal1 con-tinue until one member receives the majority support.
Vice-Chairman sha1l be electsed fron the remaining numbers of Ehe
same proceeding.
If the Chairman ret.ires from the Planning Commission before thenext regular organizational meeting, the Vice-Chairman shaIl, beChairman. If both Chairman and Vice-Chairman retire, new offi-cers sha11 be elected at the next regular meeting. If both
Chairman and Vice-Chairman are absent from a meet.ing, the
Cornmission sha11 elect a temporary Chairman by voice vote.
4.2 - Duties of the Chairman and Vice-Chairman
The purpose of a hearing is to collect information and
order for the Commission to develop a rational- planning
dation for the City Council.
SECTION 5 Procedure:
5.1 - Parlimentary Procedure
ParlimenLary Procealure governed. by Roberts Rules of Oraier Revised
shall be followed at aII regular meetings. At special r,Jork
session meetings, and when appropriate, the Commission may hold
group discussions not following any set parlimentary proceCures
except $rhen motions are before the Commission.
SECTION 5 - Publ ic Hearinqs:
5.1 Purpose of Hearings
facts in
r ecommen-
6.2 - Hearing Procedure
following procedure shaIl be followed in eachAt hearings the
case:
-3-
The Chairman or in his absence, r-he Vice-Chairman, shal.l preside
at meetings, appoint committees from its orrn membership, and per-
form other such duties as ordered by the Commission.
The Chairman shal,I conduct the meeting so as to keep it moving
rapidly and efficiently as possible and shal1 remind members,
witnesses and petiLioners to preserve order and decorum and to
keep comments to the subject at hand.
The Chairman shall not move for action but may second motions.
a
b
The Chairman shall state the case to be heard.
The Chairman shall call upon the staff to present the staffreport. Required repolts from each City Department shall besubmitted Eo the Planning Commission before each case isheard.
The Chairman shal1 ask t.he applicant to present his case.
Interested persons may address the Commission,mation regarding the particular proposal.
Petitioners and the public are to address thenot staff or other commissioners.
giving i nfor-
Chairman onIy,
c
d
f
s.
6.3 - Schedule
At meetings where more than oneeffort, sha1l be made to begin
agenda, but in no case mal/ anthe advertised time listed on
SECTION 7 Mi scellaneous 3
7.1 Planning Commission Discuss ion
Matters for iliscussion which doconsidered and discussed by theand presented by the staff and
agenda.
There shall be no dialogue among theinformation regarding the particular Commissioners, giving
proposal .
hearing is scheduled, everyeach case at the time set in theitem be called for hearing prior tothe agenda.
not appear on the agenda rnay be
Commission only when i n it iatedshall be placed at the end of the
( The Planning Commission members may ask questions of personsaddressing the Commission in order to clarify a fact, but anystatement by a member for any other purpose than to question
may be ruled out of order. )
After aIl new facts and informat.ion have been brought forth,the hearing shalI be closed and interested persons-sha11 noibe heard again. Upoo completion of the hearing on each case,the Planning Commission sha1l discuss the item at hand andrend.er a decision. The planning Commission if it. so desires,may leave the public record open for written co[unents for aspecified period of time.
The Chairman sha11 have the responsibility to inform aIl theparties of their rights of appeal on any decision or recom-mendation of the Planning Commission.
h
7.2 - Suspension of Ru1es
The Commission may suspend any ofof the members present.
-4-
these rules by a unanimous vote
7.3 - Amendments
Amendment of these bylaws may be made at any regular or special
meeting of the Planning Commission but only if scheduled on themeeting agenda in advance of the meeting.
7.4 - Review
At the first meeting in January of each year, these bylaws shallbe read and adopted by the Planning Commission.
Adopted:Date :
C ha i rman
-5-
Planning Commissioners Schedule for City Council Meetings
January 1I
January 25
February 8
February 22
Uarch 7
March 21
April 11
April 25
May 9
May 23
June 6
June 20
July I1
July 25
August 8
August 22
September 12
Septenber 26
October 10
October 24
November 7
November 21
December 12
Conrad
Wi Idermuth
Batzli
Emmi ngs
Erhart
E11son
Headla
Conrad
wi ldermuth
Batzli
Emmi ngs
Erhart
El l son
Eeadla
Conrad
wi ldermuth
Batzli
Emmi ngs
Erhart
EL l son
Headla
Conrad
Wi ldermuth
CITY OF
EHINHISSEN
6s0 couLrER DRrvE . p.o. .?I;i3r;-,"JltNHASSEN, MTNNESoTA s5317
MEMORANDUM
TO: Planning Commission
FROM: Jo Ann Olsen, Asst. City planner
DAIE: January 14, 1988
SUBJ: Council Meeting Update
On January 11, 1988, the City Council appointed Annette El1sonand Brian Batzli to the Planning Commission and reappointed JimWildermuth.
The City Council reviewed Zoning Ordinance Amendments that thePlanning Commission had reviewed on October 28 and November 4,1987. ?he following subjects were reviewed:
1 . 15 0 r oot lot ciepth
2. Fences
3. Accessory Buildings
4. Treated Wood
5. Amature Ra<iio Towers
6. Demolition Debris Disposal
7. Architectural Exterior Standards
8. .Lot Width Reguirement on Cul-de-sacs and. flag J.ots
The City Councilrs comnents on the above subjects are describedbelow, respectively:
I. The City Council agreed thaE the lot depth should be125 feet.
2. The City Council agreed that the section proposetl bystaff titled "prohibited Fences. should be added to theZoning Ordi:rance.
PIann i ng
January
Page 2
Conmi s s ion
14, r988
The City Council approved of the maximum 1000 square feetfor accessory buildings but wanted to increase the rear
setback of five feet for larger accessory buildings.City Council directed staff to establish a graduateal rear
setback for accessory buildings.
The City Council agreed that an amend.ment regulating
treaEed wood should not be added to the Zoning Ordinance.
The City Council agreed that the zoning ordinance shoul-dbe amended to limit the number of radio towers/antennasto one radio tower, one individual antenna and onesatellite dish per lot in all residential districts.
3
4
5
6 The City Council approved of adding regulations for demo-lition debris disposal to the Zoning Ordinance. Staff isreviewing the Minnesota PCA regulations to add any otherapplicable regulations.
7 The City Council agreed that there should be architec-tural exterior standards.
8. The City Council agreed that the lot width should remainthe same and continue to be measured at the front lotline and that flag lots tiIl be permitted as a varianceonfy if a hardship exists.